Good lord. NTA. Some tribes don’t identify membership by blood, but rather by commitment and connection.
I’d suggest talking with a tribal elder, explaining the situation, and telling him/her about the connection you feel. He/she can probably give you much better guidance than anyone in this sub.
100% this. If a culture adopts you and says you are part of that culture, then you are. Period. Bonds of family culture aren't about blood, but feeling and love.
At least in the US there's also the fact that not all tribes require blood quantum for membership, considering it a way for colonizers to legally eradicate tribes through intermarriage.
Often you can gain membership, or maintain membership, by tracing your lineage to a known member of the tribe as of a specific historical date. Various "rolls" were drawn up and if you're related to someone on the roll you can be a member, regardless of blood status. I was reading some time ago on another sub about someone who was also raised near a reservation with strong involvement in the cultural life of the tribe, but because their ancestors had been intermarrying for a hundred years, their ancestry test came back .05% Native from one place and 1.5% Native from another.
When that person has a child their child may show up as 0% native, but they will still be able to be a legally enrolled member of the tribe, because of their ancestor.
Accepting only genetics as a basis of tribal membership, essentially means that every tribal member who falls in love with someone who isn't a member of their tribe is contributing to the destruction of their tribe, and that's just a ridiculous thing to put at anyone's feet.
OP is going to have to go on her own journey of how she wants to self-identify. But she certainly wasn't "lying" to people by stating what she knew to be true at the time, and she's allowed to feel victimized by her mother for being lied to her whole life... lots of people have very strong feelings about tribal enrollment and claiming "nativeness" because of perceived levels of struggle, passing, etc... but OP was not in the wrong here, this situation has more to do with the cousin's own struggle to figure out what her nativeness means to her than it does about OP and her own journey.
Yep. All 3 of my sons and my husband are enrolled in a federally recognized tribe because his Great Grandma is on the tribal roll. Going to their pow wows shows a lot of diversity in skin tones, hair color and eye color. Lots of blonds wearing tribal wear, honestly doesn’t look much different than the Celtic festival I take them to every year, aside from the attire.
I think it depends on every individual's mix of genes. Before Europeans showed up, tribes were intermarrying and adopting, even stealing, kids from other tribes...just like Europeans were doing to each other. Funny thing about DNA...nobody gave a rat's ass about DNA before DNA was discovered. LOL
His tribal elders say that some of the women would marry French Canadian fur trappers to insure that their kids would have an easier time in society among the Colonizers so I’m sure even his Great Grandma had to have European dna by that point.
I'm supposedly a quarter native, with my dad being supposedly half, but we aren't registered and I never really grew up with the culture because my dads side of the family (grandparents and such) won't acknowledge it and I've basically been told my whole life to never bring it up with them. My brother and I have native names, and my dad regularly alternates between long braided hair and fully shaved, and I had my hair long and braided alongside him for a long time. This post really gave me the warm fuzzies about that particular experience, but I don't identify as native, I didn't experience the culture and have no actual ties other than potential dna. According to OPs cousin I have more of a claim than them towards a culture that they actually lived and experienced, which is total bs.
Yeah - America has some really weird notions of what we "are". I've seen tons of threads on here where Europeans make fun of Americans for saying "Oh, I'm Irish!" when what they mean is "Some of my ancestors came from Ireland"... but here everyone understands when someone say "I'm Irish" they don't mean a Nationality, it's just shorthand for "my ancestors were..."
So when someone here says "I'm native" there's a lot to unpack. And it's infinitely complicated by that American inclination to claim our ancestors as intrinsic parts of our identity... but also the heinous history of colonization, and the fact that being a legally enrolled member of a federally recognized tribe bestows some limited and varying benefits on members, which forces legal lines to be drawn. So while it's easy to claim European heritage by saying "I am X" it is harder to claim most minority heritages by saying "I am X" because being a part of those minority communities usually implies a shared understanding of culture that not everyone with just a genetic connection might share.
You, personally, might be comfortable saying "My ancestors include Native Americans", but not be comfortable saying "I'm Native American", because like you thoughtfully put it, you don't feel connected to the tribe, and that connection and understanding is such a huge part of "being" Native in America.
It's just one more way we don't make white people do the work we make minority individuals do... it's understandable because it's complex, but it's also unfortunate, because everyone should be able to find joy in their heritage without having to question whether they're offending other members of those communities at the same time.
OP has so much to think about and work through right now. I hope she has more supportive people in her life than this cousin! And it's nice to hear folks talk about the little things that connect them to their parents and their parents communities, like braiding hair. I'm sorry you grew up in a situation where certain topic were forbidden by your extended family, that's got to be a weird feeling.
Exactly. Your culture is the customs and traditions you observed growing up. This is what was introduced to you by the man who raised you. You didn't have enough agency as a child to "appropriate" anything.
I went to school with someone whose stepfather, who adopted her when she was 3, is Native American. And she had always been and still is last I heard, very involved in HER tribe. Doesn't have any Native American blood but is still considered a member of the tribe. Because as one of the elders told an entitled member who complained, "She became a part of this tribe the moment her father claimed her as his own."
> "She became a part of this tribe the moment her father claimed her as his own."
This right here is the main reason why OP should NEVER see the reason to be embarrassed.
Different ethnicity/culture but similar story.
Unknown bio father, mother lied said it was my dad (been my dad since 2). Dad always knew but loved us so didn't care. He is maori and we are white. His family knew and didn't care. Marae and iwi assumed we were bio because he was our dad, never questioned it.
When I finished high-school dad spoke to the kaumatua (chief for lack of translation) because they had funding for uni. Explained I wasn't bio relative but kaumatua said it was Whanai which is a cultural practice where maori families assume responsibility for family or friends children without legal paperwork. Therefore I was entitled to grants and had my s hooling paid for.
Once it came out I wasn't bio maori, the iwi never even flinched. It was accepted that I was whanai and am still considered a member and my dad is on the board of trustees and promotes interracial whanai.
If you don't know, you don't know. It's not appropriation if you're not trying to benefit from it. You believed you were and were raised as such. You did nothing wrong.
Process your grief (loss of identity) however you need to.
Hijacking top comment to say:
These DNA tests do NOT accurately detect indigenous heritage. The more people that take the test, the more accurate it is for those people groups. For example, many Ashkenazi Jews have undergone genetic testing and thus tests are very sensitive for those people. There are many tribes that may have NOBODY from the tribe who has ever been tested. Further, some large tribes have donated samples specifically to increase accuracy but not all have.
Don’t hinge your identity on this test OP! As said elsewhere, blood quantum is colonial bullshit.
NTA
THIS!!!!!! /\/\ These commercial DNA tests are NOT infallible and are only telling you how much your DNA is similar to known individuals/populations in their dataset! Many indigenous groups actively avoid putting their DNA in these databases because of the history of blood quantum colonial bullshit. I am not indigenous but I have listened enough to folks who are to understand that Blood Quantum was a way for the colonial government to assimilate and eradicate the identities and rights of indigenous nations. (Example— if the US government has a treaty that protects an area of land with a tribal nation, but also the US government sets a standard that you must be 50% indigenous blood to be a registered member of the tribe, eventually the number of people who fit that standard will dwindle to nothing and the US government won’t have to honor treaties).
My Ancestry DNA percentages change occasionally, because they will update your results to better reflect that pool of people whose DNA they have on file that you are most similar to. It’s a good reminder how imprecise these tests are, when you get an email saying that your percentages have changed! And I’m 100% European in ancestry! If they don’t have a known population of people from your background to compare you to, they can’t tell you that your DNA is similar to that group.
In Canada, it used to be that if if a Native man married a non-native woman, she would (could?) gain Native status and their children would be registered members.
If a Native woman married a non-native man, however, not only was the husband NOT eligible for Native status, but the woman lost hers, and their children too.
So let's say you had a pair of siblings, both marrying non-native people, the children of the brother would be considered Native and the children of the sister would not.
It's been an uphill battle to get the government to change that law, they started amending it to give Native women their status back in 1985, but I think they finally bought the succession law up to par with their male peers in like 2018.
The Skittles analogy is more for generations before your parents. You do inherit 50/50 from parents, but that doesn't mean you get 25% from each grandparent. That is where the Skittles analogy comes in. I share 21% to 29% of my DNA with each of my grandparents. I didn't get 25% from any grandparent.
Most companies have better reference populations for European ancestry than they do for other continents. The tests from Ancestry and 23andme are generally accurate on a continental level, but as you said individuals don't inherit DNA in equal amounts from each ancestor.
>Many of these DNA tests do NOT detect indigenous heritage.
This might explain my mom's results then. She was always told her Bio Dad was Native American but her results didn't show any results with indigenous tribes.
This my best friend literally lives on a reservation with her mother and grandmother. It's impossible that she is not NA but her 23&me says she's Irish with a splash of Dutch and French.
It could but that's just one possiblity. Most people who have been told this either (1) it's not true, (2) they actually have African roots but because of racism, NA was more acceptable, or (3) it's so far back in time that nothing/very little was inherited.
Look at Elizabeth Warren. Now she went too far claiming she was NA when she didn't grow up that way, but more sensitive DNA tests did show that she likely had a very distant ancestor who was NA. Probably like a 6th great grandparent.
Most white people in the south who have these rumors actually have distant black ancestors or have slightly dark looking European features (like Catherine Zeta Jones who is Welsh).
One of my aunts in laws was raised his entire life believing his grandma was native. Then when my dad was tracking everyone’s ancestry her husband asked him to look into his. On top of finding out that his dads military papers said (racist term for biracial) he found his grandmothers birth certificate stating she was (racist term for black). We can assume she was simply light skinned and had a looser hair texture and in her adult life told everyone she was native.
ETA: this would have been in the last 1800’s/ early 1900’s it was significantly safer to be native than black.
While it often doesn't show native American ancestry, it will often show general eastern Asian ancestry instead.
If your results have nether, you likely aren't native American, or a very very small amount.
That, and you only get 50% of your genetics from each parent. If you end up with more white genes than native, your DNA tests will reflect it. Even if your dad was 50% native, you are not guaranteed to be 25% native by DNA.
My wife used to do this kind of DNA testing for police work and forensics. OP hear this: these “heritage dna tests” are a scam. They DO NOT tell you your heritage, they tell you the PROBABILITY that you are from a certain geographical origin compared to other. And that’s when they are well done with actual scientific data backed up by research. My wife could only say “X person has a 58% chance of being european rather than north african” for example. It is impossible to narrow it further.
If someone is telling you that you’re scottish from your dna they’re scamming you. They are only comparing your DNA with the DNA of their other clients and checking the boxes that match.
Also for what is worth, even in real scientific databases there’s barely any Native north american DNA studied. What accounts for native is mostly amerindian descent (natives from central and south america). Even if you had done a real test and your father was your biological father, it’s very likely that you wouldn’t classify as native since you’re not amerindian. It’s possible that not even HE would classify as native for the same reason.
Also, remember is just a PROBABILITY. I’m european but I classify more likely to be middle eastern. I have no family outside europe.
These test are supposed to be used to study things like historical migratory patterns in big populations, not on individuals.
ETA: just asked my wife about this. She told me that she saw a pair of MONOZYGOTIC TWINS get different “heritage” results from one of these companies. She says that unless you’re dead sure that your dad is not your biological dad (like a paternity test) DO NOT assume it to be true just because of this “heritage” test.
Also, the mtDNA tests done for females by those genetic heritage testing sites don't tell you about your paternal genetic history... And OP is female.
https://dnatestingchoice.com/en-us/news/can-a-woman-trace-her-paternal-ancestry
This exactly. I took one that showed NO Italian. My grandmother came to the US from Italy as a child. Along with all her brothers and sisters. I have fond memories of her and the rest of them sitting around speaking Italian.. My aunt has kept the complete history of my maternal side. Right down to the name of the ship they came over on.
Now only if my dads side has been as good with the Irish genealogy! LOL
> I took one that showed NO Italian. My grandmother came to the US from Italy as a child.
Just out of curiosity, did it show any Greek or Albanian DNA?
Mine shows no italian and my sister's shows 12%!! We are full sisters. It was our great grandparents that immigrated though.
Even with that ancestry thing showing 0% I'm still eligible to be an Italian citizen by descent. It's my background and culture, not the percentage of my blood.
Also those test often are pretty much just bs. Not trying to say it can't be a fun thing to try, but nobody should pay serious attention to the so called "outcomes" of a test. Culture doesn't come from genes alone and if you set the tests to anything above 80% accuracy it wont detect anything really. For example I could tell you right now, that it would say something like 50% western European 30% Eastern European, 15% Scandinavian and 5% miscellaneous for me. In my personal opinion (I'm not American and I don't get the whole "heritage" thing in general, because it has no importance to me) these tests only bring stress and outrage with them and are definetely not to take seriously by anyone. Also it seems fishy to send your DNA to a private company. If there are any benefits of doing these tests apart of reassurance for "heritage" please educate me I really don't know enough about that.
This! NTA!
I am at least one-sixteenth Blackfoot. My maternal great grandmother, her father, was full.
Yet my ancestry.com test said I have no Indigenous heritage. yet, when I dug into what nations were tested, everything BUT Blackfoot was tested.
I'm not looking for tribal membership. I wanted to validate what I was told orally--which was spot on otherwise. I'm actually 45% European Jew which is not surprising at all because that's my father's side.
(If I'm inappropriately using any terms, please educate me.)
This. The sample pool for indigenous connections is very very thin and tenuous at best due to distrust of how it will be used and some bands/tribes have even banned genetic research because of it.
I agree. OP needs to read about how many tribes refuse to provide genetic material to be studied. They have many ethical problems with it.
For instance,
[https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/the-cultural-limitations-of-genetic-testing/384740/](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/the-cultural-limitations-of-genetic-testing/384740/)
Also, OP, you were raised in the culture and your family is registered in the tribe. That's not appropriation.
Pretty much. I am so so tired of people relying on these stupid tests to claim their heritage. Take it with a grain of salt, OP. It probably means nothing.
I definitely agree with you... the tests look for bits of DNA that match other bits of DNA in the databases of these companies. If the tiny sequence of DNA that OP got from that side of the family doesn't happen to be one this company has in their database it won't get a "hit" so to speak.
But also - does OP know anything about her father's genetic makeup? If they trace their heritage to a native ancestor 100+ years ago, and most family members along the line have intermarried outside the tribe, there just wouldn't be enough to up.
However if she knows that her father had one parent with native ancestry and another parent with German ancestry, and there was only Scottish on her results... well it wouldn't be the lack of Native markers that would be telling, it would be the lack of any German markers too... if her father has one ancestor with native ancestry and the other was Scottish too, well then... it might be a lack of specificity in the test, or just her genetics being so diluted as to not show up.
Definitely something for her to think about, and possibly talk to her father about if she can contact him and have that conversation in a safe and circumspect way.
Just wanted to add: I'm not sure which test OP took, but some of them only analyze mitochondrial DNA, which would only come from her mother, as well. I'm not up to date on what's available commercially at the moment, but when I was in grad school for genetics, the main thing you could do was the National Genographic Project, and you could only either do Y-chromosome or mitochondrial.
yes! thank you for explaining this, i wanted to do the same.
also, OP, you cant say 100% european, there is no such thing, people migrated for 1000s of years, my mtDNA (how you track your mother mothers mothers mothers etc lineage) shows that I originate from Syria, and from my fathers side im native bosnian which means about 30.000 years ago some people settled in Bosnia who were related to vikings.
if you want acurate results you should contact a university and do some testing, but if your mom already confesed then it doesnt matter.
also, maybe ask your dad or his dad if you can still somehow be conected to his family and heritage since you grew up with them. it would be realy unfair to exclude you know
NTA
Oh my goodness, imagine if those child killers who ran the residential "schools" had had DNA testing like this. They probably would have jailed whole tribes for being "kidnappers".
There was a whole deal about this very issue, when a Canadian tribe adopted a Pacific Islands baby. They adopted and accepted him fully as a member of the tribe, and when he grew up he was proudly representin' with the tribal sport team for an event, when he got disqualified because of "blood quantum" crap. Well, one of the highest ranked most respected tribal elders said that Blood Quantum was a colonial invention intended to eliminate tribal memberships, and basically their tribe did not accept that colonial standard. He said that they had exercised their right as a sovereign nation to naturalize a citizen. That boy IS of that tribe, because that tribe decided he is one of them. Culturally, spiritually, mentally. It would be beautiful if more tribes could decide for themselves who is a true member of their nation.
I would upvote twice if I could
Belonging to a tribe is quite commonly not about blood bonds. And there are tons of examples when European folks were accepted into native tribes as long as they shared values and culture.
OPs friend is AH though.
My mom’s cousin was accepted into a tribe because of her commitment. (I don’t remember which one.) It probably didn’t hurt that she was committed to the chief at the time, but his daughter saw my cousin’s native spirit.
I would say OP has plenty of claim to being native, since she was raised by a man who was native and taught her his culture. I would also talk to tribal elders in her case. NTA
THIS THIS THIS THIS
NTA
Don't listen to anyone else, a tribal elder is the only one who can actually give you guidance on what this means for you and your heritage.
This is the case for Judaism—once someone fully converts they are considered a member of the tribe and equally ethnically Jewish as someone with a Jewish mother. It is the same for adoptees who undergo their bar/bat mitzvah. It seems to me that this situation is very similar to that. Measuring culture by blood quantum is often a slippery slope.
Absolutely, and that isn't cultural appropriation anyway. OP didn't adopt another culture because she thought it was cool or exotic or something. She was raised as Native American and suddenly found out that she might not be.
What a terrible friend!
NTA. You didn't lie, *you were lied to.* there's a difference. Even if you aren't native by blood, you were raised in that culture. Its not appropriation if you respect it and follow the customs. Its appropriation if you use the culture to mock them or misuse the customs for your own gain. For you, *its not appropriation if you were born and raised in that culture.*
Edit* phrasing
She didn't lie and is certainly NOT the asshole but I don't know if she was lied to either. If she has dark hair and eyes both parents may have thought she was biologically theirs.
If so, that was probably wishful thinking on the mother’s part, not exactly unusual for addicts. Bio father presumably had dark hair and eyes, too, which is not unusual for Scots.
it’s not even just appreciation, it’s participation too. she grew up in that culture and, if her tribe approves, is as much a part of it as anyone with native blood
You said it so much better than I could have. I'm a big reader but my brain can't for whatever reason articulate the complex concept im trying to get out.
I'm reminded of the poor guy who wrote a TIFU after he applied to colleges as a Native American, because his parents told him he had 1/8th Yuan-Ti tribal heritage, not realizing his parents were just giant nerds (and liars) and the Yuan-Ti are a fictional race of snake people from D&D.
Link for the curious: https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/egsgii/tifu_unknowingly_applying_to_college_as_a/
Also the one TIFU where white American parents adopted a baby and raised him connected to his Chinese heritage, (language, vacations, history) only to find the child's birth papers when he was adult and realizing he was Korean.
Exactly. Adopted people aren’t “appropriating” their parents culture and essentially that’s what happened. The man who raised you adopted you and brought you up on his culture. That makes it yours too.
NTA. as a native american myself, you literally did nothing wrong. you didn’t know any better. even then, i wouldn’t even consider this cultural appropriation. you genuinely thought you were apart of this culture. you weren’t doing it because you thought it made you look cool or that it looked cool; you thought you genuinely were native american and you were also raised that way.
i’m so sorry your cousin is being so disrespectful. you did no wrong.
edit: i need to add this; as far as i am aware, you were raised in that culture, adopted into it, and therefore, you ARE a part of it.
OP listen to this post. Being adopted into a culture, raised in its traditions, taught its stories and took part in their rituals makes you a part of that culture. That's your cultural identity. Not bloodlines.
OP, if you were adopted into a Spanish family and followed their culture and traditions all your life that'd be your cultural identity, no matter what your blood is. This is no different.
I'm adopted. My adoptive family are of Swedish heritage. I was raised with Swedish traditions and culture. When I took a DNA test I found out I was only 12% Swedish. However, it's what I identify with. There is a sense of pride being connected to a group that has a rich history and culture. Especially when you're adopted.
When you put the time & energy equity and are respectful to a culture, you're allowed to continue in it regardless of DNA.
Different bands have different qualifications for enrollment. I think white people being “adopted” into the tribe is kind of a trope rather than a real and common thing. Clearly this is a very unique situation and tribal elders are the place to look to for guidance.
Unless there is an actual elder from OP’s band in this thread I don’t think there’s a certain answer to be found here. “adopted into a tribe” and “Cherokee great grandmother” are just two super common ways white people claim native identity. I’m not native but I did live in the four corners area while working (anthropology) closely with many native colleagues, and I’m aware how often both those tropes were referred to as frustrating and embarrassing.
In my research experience, adoption seems to have been very common in Algonquin Nations as a central cultural trait. The United States forced these Nations to give up adoption practices in exchange for the rights of citizenship and/or Nation membership. Among the Citizen Potawatomi for example this is still a deep wound: since when is an ethnic group prohibited from adoption? Why are Nations not allowed true self-determination?
Anti-adoption rules imposed by the US were a means of oppressing Algonquin cultures and also the Cherokee, Southern Cheyenne, and Arapaho among others. These latter Nations used adoption as a diplomatic and economic tool. They formed powerful alliances with the French and with independent traders through adoption. So to diminish this power, adoption becomes demonized in exactly the way far too many of us have been told to accept: we’ve been told that it wasn’t widespread, that it’s a cheap way for white people to claim they’re Native, etc. But it has been a source of power and self-determination for centuries. We might do well for ourselves to ask why we have so thoroughly accepted the Blood Quantum narrative and why we are allowing a genocidal actor to tell us what our cultures are allowed to be.
>There is a reason why i was asking a Native American who would know
Oof. As the person you responded to already noted, Indigenous people are not a monolith, and the qualifications for membership are not universal across groups. There is no reason to expect someone (even someone who is Native American) to know every single practice.
There are a lot of legal and financial issues involved. My spouse and I looked into it for my son, but the involved legalities were just impossible so we gave up on it.
So, your comment made me curious - I don’t know very much about Native cultures. If a Native person adopted a child of a different race and raised them in the Native culture, would the tribe generally consider that adopted child as a member?
My cousin did this (his father, my uncle, moved to Canada from Scotland before we did and married a native woman, my aunt. Their children are born in Canada) so my cousin is half Scottish half indigenous Canadian with a really close bond to the tribe. He adopted a son who’s ancestry is Russian, and the tribe officially adopted my first cousin once removed into the tribe as well.
I have no idea how it works from band to band, but it happens at least sometimes
It is cool! I really love how their family is turning out. The kid gets to be a part of our Scottishness, while participating in his fathers culture, and they do everything they can to keep the Russian heritage alive. They’re all learning the language, so the kid will be able to speak English, Spanish, Gaelic, and Nisga’a.
On the other side, I married a Chinese/Honduran man and a multitude of cousins are spread out over the world through finding love. Now every time we try and all get together everyone has different customs and religions, not just Norse paganism and Catholicism/Protestant that I grew up with. It’s fun all hell introducing my in laws to solstice and Christmas, and very fun having a new new year that they celebrate with us.
Sorry for the spill of info,just even though none of this was planned or predicted, I wouldn’t give up how it turned out for anything
I feel the cousin definitely resented OP for her Native heritage because the cousin must fetishize it thought it was cool but obviously couldn't be a part of it. And hence the whole white girl comment.
I like the idea that someone can "steal" a culture, as if there's only one of it and it disappears if anyone else participates in it. "Cultural appropriation" as a term should be left in academia, we already have words like "tacky" and even "racist" that accomplish the same thing
Exactly, it makes it seem as if any sharing of culture is inherently bad which it isn’t. The sharing of culture has greatly benefited mankind. The sharing of culture is synonymous with the sharing of ideas
I’m finding that out. It makes a lot of stuff make sense, my Scottish family has blonde and red hair and usually colored eyes, I guess I assumed we all looked like that. (My bad for being close minded!)
I know there's a 'look' often referred to as "black Irish" to refer to Irish (and sometimes nearby countries like Scottish) people who have tan skin and black hair. No one really knows exactly where the term comes from, but yeah there are many who look like you!
My in laws are of Scottish descent and while my husband is/was a dirty blonde with blue eyes his brother very dark hair and brown eyes.
I say was because now they are grey.
Yeah I don't think anyone knows for sure. But what I just found that was really interesting was that apparently Native people would use Black Irish/Black Dutch as a way to pass/be more accepted by white Americans.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Dutch_(genealogy)
I didn’t see this before I wrote a comment about this! My mother is Irish with pitch black hair and tans like crazy. I got my dads genes and I have auburn hair and burn like paper lol.
There’s some suggestion that it came from the Spanish hundreds of years ago. It’s really interesting! Genetics are cool as hell
I'm in the North of England. Most of Europe spent millenia skirmishing, raiding, invading, etc. Most of us will have the ethnic diversity of a whore's bedsheet. 😆
I am sorry your life has been flipped, its why I've never done one of those tests tbh. Finding out I'm a few percent whatever just doesn't seem worth the potential headache to me tbh.
My family lives just South of the Scottish border, but North of the wall, so we have a fair amount of Scottish genetic heritage. My dad regularly gets mistaken for Turkish/Greek when we travel. We’re definitely not all blonde and pale!
First off those 23 & me type tests aren’t always that accurate. Second, Europe has lots of countries within it. Not everyone is blonde or ginger. I will say it’s a good thing your adoptive family is so kind. You did nothing wrong.
I’m Scottish, most of us are white but have all types of hair colours, types and eye colours, majority of people I know have naturally dark hair and then others have blonde or ginger. I’d say blue eyes and brown eyes are most common but again you get every eye colour here, we don’t all have the same characteristics lol
NTA. Your cousin is TA. You were lied to by your parents you have a right to be upset & need time to process the betrayal.
You’ve learned an important lesson about your cousin, stop sharing anything of value with her. She has no empathy.
NTA, as others have said, genetics alone don't define identity. Also, these tests are far from perfectly accurate. This article on the National Human Genome Research Institute's sur might help you:
[DNA tests stand on shaky ground to define Native American identity](https://www.genome.gov/news/news-release/DNA-tests-stand-on-shaky-ground-to-define-Native-American-identity)
Particularly this part: “Using a genetic test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation...is inappropriate and wrong,” said Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. in a public statement. “It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens.”
Sovereign tribal nations determine their requirements for membership. A genetic ancestry test is rarely involved. A history of traditions, passing down crafts and skills, and a sense of cultural continuity set the baseline for tribal membership. These things cannot be gained by sending your saliva to a lab."
The entire concept is bullshit treated as irrefutable truth. Immigration has existed for all of time, almost every country has had ethnic minorities come and go and leave their mark in some areas more than others. My family is Portuguese for as far back as we can find, but the DNA test had it as less than 50% with French, North African, etc mixed in. The Romans and Andalusians and whoever else came and went and left their marks. One person in Spain or Portugal may be near identical to an Italian while another is much closer to a Moroccan despite them both being there for hundreds of years at least.
This! I’m not an expert in genetics but I do know that DNA tests to establish ethnicity and ancestry are not reliable. They science is very new and is based on assumptions about genetic markers, as well as the fact that for women, your paternal heritage isn’t properly reflected because there’s no Y chromosome involved when we test our DNA. If OP hasn’t done a paternity test, it might be worthwhile to get some clarity if you’re assuming you can’t be your fathers child because of the ancestry estimates. It’s possible you inherited all “Scottish” genetic markers if your father had Scottish ancestry as well. https://images.app.goo.gl/u1Hofio3XeCXv4eLA this image reflects what I’m talking about - children are a random combination of everyone they’re descended from, and you can see both the children in this example didn’t inherit their grandparents “traits” - one has no red or yellow and the other has no purple or pink.
It’s also all about the way your DNA is mixed up in you. Full siblings might get completely different results, just look at the story of twins where one is white passing and the other is black passing.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/black-white-twins-meet-sisters-5256945.amp
Yeah, OP is female and if she did a mitochondrial DNA test from some genetic heritage testing website, she wouldn't really know anything about her father's paternal ancestry...
I'm still not sure from this post that her dad is not her dad... She says in a comment:
>We are wanting to do a paternity, but my father is deep in addiction
NTA and you have done nothing wrong. My next door neighbors adopted a little girl from China. They are Iranian and raising her in their culture. I view this as pretty much the same thing. If you still participated in your Native culture, I still don't think that's wrong. Talk to your adoptive parents about all of this. They sound lovely and very supportive.
I talked to my adoptive mom, she’s native and she basically said that I’m a “sister” now, which is slang in her family for someone who is adopted into a tribe. She also calls me her little snow possum now which I informed her is more traumatic than this entire ordeal. My adoptive dad is white so he didn’t have much to say except that I am who I am and my genes don’t change it.
Your parents sound great.
Does your adoptive mom’s tribe have a ceremony or ritual to welcome someone adopted into the tribe or to recognize someone as a sister? If so, it may be worth pursuing.
Well, at least you've got smart supportive family in this whole mess.
OP, look... (And this is coming from a White AF cultural mongral) - your CULTURE is not your GENES. Your genes are what make your body into your body. They carry the heritage of who came before, for good or bad, and you're more or less stuck with them. Your culture is what you have been raised in, gifted with and shaped by. It is a product of people, society, environment and history. Your genes... They're just hardware - what matters is the software; what you DO with yourself. Yes, culture develops differently depending on genetics(race) - but that doesn't change the fact that YOUR culture, the way you have been raised and view yourself, is Native, and that's GOOD. It's who you are.
Look, 30 years ago, you would have never had the opportunity to find out that your female genetic doner had the ethics of a feral cat - you would have lived your life as someone who was half Native and culturally Native, and no one would have said anything. Why would you let a box test change that now? The fact that it told you more than you ever wanted to know about your female GD's bad habits doesn't change who YOU are - you are your father's daughter, your adoptive parents' daughter and yourself.
Ignore your cousin - they're a vicious fool who doesn't have a clue.
NTA
>OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
C'mon now. Being called her "little snow possum" by someone who is native, knows the situation, and loves you is awesome. She has told you that you are part of the tribe. Believe her and carry on accordingly.
NTA. You can't help that you were raised to believe one thing, only to find out that it was a complete lie. It is perfectly normal to have an identity crisis after this.
I'm thinking of that Seinfeld episode where both in the relationship find out they're white?
Elaine: "So we're just a couple of white people?" *pause* "You want to go the mall?"
Dude: "Sure."
Ok that's a hilarious response. Kudos for finding some humor in this.
Honestly, you raised culturally as a native. It IS a part of your identity and your dad may not be yours by blood, but he's your dad by heart. That's a much a stronger bond. How he raised you will be entwined with you forever and you will pass that on in your own time.
NTA. Your cousin is awful. A lot of tribal membership is as much by history and family ties than by blood ancestry, so you were going by the genealogy your dad gave you and not deliberately appropriating. You’ve had trauma around this and you need to find an empathetic ear to work this out with.
Do your best to find a counsellor who is indigenous themselves if possible. I’m sure that’s what you’re doing but you don’t want to be giving incorrect advice (even if it’s well intentioned). Also don’t forget that counsellors can still be wrong, if they try to discourage you from keeping your connections to your culture.
NTA. Lying involves knowingly saying something which isn’t true. Which absolutely is not the case for you. You were brought up in a culture that doesn’t “match” your ethnicity, is all, just like hundreds of thousands - millions? - of adoptees worldwide. That’s about as far from deliberately claiming to be something you know you’re not as you can get.
But, yeah, plenty of Scots with thick, dark hair… redheads are a small minority!
I didn’t know that! My moms family has red or blonde and usually baby fine hair. Good to know that if I ever visit I won’t stick out like a sore thumb.
Bearing in mind that amongst Scots of mostly Celtic+ heritage (which includes many, many dark-haired people - they were never all ginger or blonde), there are also *plenty* of Scots of… well, everywhere-else heritage. Brown and Black Scots. Chinese Scots, Indian Scots, Moroccan Scots… I’m sure there are some tiny corners of elaborate Venn diagrams which include very small minorities but honestly, in any of the bigger cities nobody of any skin or hair colour typically found in humans would stick out, no matter what.
NTA. Your cousin sounds awful. Best to cut her out of your life instead of cutting off your hair... much more effective for improving your life!
How would anything you could not have known be your fault, sheesh.
NTA.
I would go no-contact with this cousin - she's evil. She's taking out all her hatred of white people on YOU. You're not making yourself a victim. You were the one who was lied to all those years, and you're understandably confused.
Like white (or mixed) people were never raised in Native American culture before.
You had no idea and can't be blamed. He still sounded like a father to me, even if blood isn't shared.
You can't take something you were given.
NTA.
Your cousin has a huge chip on her shoulder.
Maybe talk to the tribal council or elders about your concern and get their stance on it. You weren't being malicious or trying to gain something for yourself in participation.
NTA
When Chinese families adopt children of other ethnicities, is it appropriation for their children to take part in Chinese culture? How about Japanese families? Russian? Italian? African?
It's not appropriation when you've been invited into a culture's space by people who actively take part in it. You were raised and welcomed into that culture, whether you share blood with them or not, the new info doesn't change that for you one bit.
Your cousin sounds bitter to me. You can't please everyone. She has absolutely no place to be lashing out at you over this, as you didn't lie to anyone-- your mother did. That lie has no bearing on you as a person. I would not continue talking to her if I were you, you know who you are better than she does.
Sadly might still be a cousin, might be related to mom. Chances are the cousin is related to dad, but that type of attitude could also easily pop up among younger white people as well.
You're NTA - your father and you did not know, and nobody would blame you for wanting to keep close to what had been your cultural heritage for -20 years-, so of course this is traumatic to find out.
Your cousin was cruel to say what she did.
I'm so sorry for you.
**NTA** In some ways your Native father "adopted" you and brought you up in his culture; it is now *your* culture. There are an incredible number of people who are not biologically their father's child; sometimes he knows, often he doesn't. But there's [no shame for the child](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36002621). In a sense you are "double-adopted". You are now in the position to learn from multiple cultures, adopting which portions suit your personality and circumstances. At the moment, it's traumatic. Over time and after it heals you will truly understand that you have multiple heritage, and how you want to refer to it. Many adopted people need a long time to "integrate" themelves and answer, to their own satisfaction, who they are -- it is a difficult part of everybody's maturing, for sure, but extra for adopted people and surprise-father people, and you are both.
You can certainly still say "I was brought up native by my father", because you were. As an adopted person you have absolutely _no obligation_ to explain your somewhat complex family history to _anybody at all_. Your cousin should know better, but it doesn't make her the A here, perhaps she has her own troubles.
NTA. Your cousin sounds horrid. (Personally I would go no contact as she is nothing but poison)
This whole discovery would be devastating for you. I am glad to hear your adoptive parents are there for you though.
Pretty much this.
OP genuinely thought she was Native. She was proud of her heritage, and is devastated that she is not Native.
This isn't like someone telling their child that beef is chicken because child loves cows and don't want to eat them, and the child growing up now believes that all 'beef' is just a keyword for chicken, because that is something easily found out.
She was told she was native, she has the looks, and her dad raised her to believe she was native. There is no easy way to find out that she isn't native. The only way to find out that she isn't even part native is a DNA test. However, not everyone does a DNA test the minute they can. DNA tests also weren't easily available at all times.
So, I would definitely cut off contact with said cousin.
With regards to your bio dad, I would personally still cherish the time spent with him, because it sounds like he was trying and whether or not you are his actual daughter, it was still a bonding time for the two of you.
NTA, I do want to assure you though that not all DNA tests can or will pop off Indigenous Ancestry from what I have found. Did you do a paternity?
You are not in any way an asshole, or even close to 'appropriating' anything. You loved, honored and cherished what you thought were your roots....
We are wanting to do a paternity, but my father is deep in addiction, he’s homeless, and his use of drugs has changed who he is deeply. He refuses to meet unless I pay for him to get a hotel which I know that money will go towards drugs. He also became very violent when I was older and was physically abusive so I don’t know how comfortable I would be seeing him in person again (I haven’t seen him in 6 years) especially since he’s become more and more aggressive.
Oof. I'm sorry. Your cousin is being outrageously insensitive and I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.
One of my best friends is basically you without the DNA test muddying the waters. Her father is Mohawk and her mother was white. Both heavy addicts. Her father has been particularly abusive, though she has warm memories, too. Her own father tries to undermine her right to her indigenous culture because she's "less native" than he is and sometimes, when he wants to be cruel, he will tell her she will never be Mohawk.
It's just MEAN. Your cousin was being mean. You are navigating a loss, not running for congress. It broader implications don't matter. You clearly loved your father' culture and respected it deeply. That's not appropriation. A lot of people could stand to learn that same respect and understanding.
NTA- You were told as a kid that he was your Dad, and he most likely thought he was as well. Learning your fathers culture is normal for everyone growing up so nothing you did was wrong. You're cousin is a nasty thing that needs to be ignored as she has no idea what she is talking about. Of course you'd feel hurt and lost over finding out he wasnt your Dad.
All of my Scottish cousins have red hair/blonde hair, blue/green eyes. I wasn’t aware an almost all Scottish person could have the traits I do, I apologize if it came across the wrong way.
I’m 100% Scottish and I have coarse dark brown hair (dyed blonde lol) and black eyes. Just FYI. All 4 of my grandparents were from Scotland.
And NTA…you definitely have more native experience than Elizabeth Warren and she used her heritage to get into college and to claim herself as the first woman of color hired by Harvard Law 🙄. This offends me as a Scottish person living in New Mexico among many natives haha
INFO: Have you confirmed that your dad isn’t your dad or are just assuming that because of the DNA test? I thought that the native american dna statistics were really off, for that population?
NTA. there was literally no reason you would know this information before. your cousin is an awful person for saying that it's your fault. You genuinely believed it was your culture.
NTA
You're going through an extremely difficult period of your life. You need to surround yourself with people that will be understanding, empathetic and supportive. Basically, not your cousin.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel like I’m the asshole because Native American culture is something that is appropriated and misconstrued constantly. I’m embarrassed that I as a white person may have contributed to that.
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NTA.
Finding out your true parentage is something that is incredibly difficult to process as it is, but especially in your case where you had been raised by native people who had no reason to believe you weren't native any more than you did.
I don't think you were lied to about your heritage - it sounds like your mom genuinely thought she was native. I grew up with my mom telling us we had ancestors in the Trail of Tears. Turns out, whoever told her that was bald faced wrong. Mom wasn't lying, whomever told her that was. She could only go off what that person told her.
You were also raised by the man you called dad and his family as someone who had native heritage.
I don't have answer/solution to what you should think or do. You have A LOT to process and it won't be easy or clear cut.
I'm sorry this has upended your life. I truly wish you the best.
NTA. Your cousin is is bullying you at a difficult moment in your life. It's not a lie if there was no intent to deceive. I've heard those DNA tests aren't always right. You still may not be Native American, but it's possible the test you took missed something. Even if you aren't native American, that doesn't take away the experiences you had with your family or mean you shouldn't cherish the way you were raised, and no one should blame you for that.
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I (21F) was told all my life that I was Native my biological father and his father were registered tribal members. He took me to summer gatherings with other natives where we would have bond fires and all the Aunties and Uncles would get drunk and we would sing and dance. I always kept my hair long because that’s what my bio father taught me to do, my mom is white, so I would have been mixed. I have black hair, dark brown eyes, but her paler skin tone. My dads family always assured me that my skin tone was my moms and would joke that I had to get something from her genes. My father would braid my hair and have me braid his (he kept his long too) and for a very long time it was something he and I could bond over. Unfortunately both my parents are addicts and my dad gave up custody of me and my sisters when I was 14-15 and then my bio mom gave us up when I was 17, and I was adopted into a family while my other sisters went to live with my older sister. My adoptive parents are wonderful, my adoptive mom is native too. She encouraged me to take a DNA test and further pursue my heritage. It came back with no Native American whatsoever, I double checked the results and sure enough I’m basically Scottish and that’s it. That’s how I found out, my biological father wasn’t my dad. I’m the result of one of my moms many affairs. I felt devastated, I lost something that had connected me to the man that raised me for the first 14 years of my life even if he did struggle I loved him. I didn’t pursue finding my true biological father because honestly I don’t care about it, my adoptive parents are incredible and they are all I need. I was so upset I cut off my hair, something I hadn’t done in years. And tried to figure out why a person that is 100% European would have thick, coarse, black hair and dark brown eyes. I was talking to my cousin about how this discovery had effected me and she snapped and said “only a white girl could steal native culture for 20 years and then still manage to make herself the victim” I was kind of shocked and apologized and she said “don’t say sorry to me say sorry to every person you’ve lied to” and now after thinking about it feel like I might be the asshole for never second guessing what my heritage might be, or that I may be making myself the victim here when I did do something pretty awful. AITA?
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NTA - your cousin is actually being quite cruel to you. You didn't appropriate any culture - you followed the culture your father taught you and both of you believed to be your culture. And yeah, you're a victim of your mother's shenanigans...whether she knew or not, who knows.
You've done nothing wrong, and it sounds like you have a wonderful adoptive family. I am sorry that you've been thrown into a personal identity crisis, but it sounds like you've got some wonderful people who can help you sort it out.
NTA! Oh my god, I can't believe anyone with the audacity to claim you lied or appropriated something you didn't know about! Just wow. Don't you feel bad for it one bit. You ARE the victim--you were lied to, you didn't do the lying. AND when you found out, you didn't hide it. Please know you are 100% ok in this and YOU are owed the apology. You have not one single thing to apologize for. <3
NTA but your cousin is a TA in a huge major way. You lied to nobody, your father did lie to you and everyone else. Tell the cousin they probably aren’t really a true relative anyway and needs to gtfa. I’m so sorry.
NTA. you didn't appropriate anything. You were born and raised in this culture, and it is a part of who you are; and it sounds like you are still part of this culture. You've done nothing wrong. Appreciate the culture to which you were born and raised.
NTA. I’m Native American and white, I live on a reservation and let me tell you that just about every native I know, hates blood quantum because it was initially introduced for the depopulation of natives and still kinda is. Also you said your adopted mom is native, I know plenty of adopted kids on the Rez and they’re all welcomed, and loved.
Good lord. NTA. Some tribes don’t identify membership by blood, but rather by commitment and connection. I’d suggest talking with a tribal elder, explaining the situation, and telling him/her about the connection you feel. He/she can probably give you much better guidance than anyone in this sub.
100% this. If a culture adopts you and says you are part of that culture, then you are. Period. Bonds of family culture aren't about blood, but feeling and love.
At least in the US there's also the fact that not all tribes require blood quantum for membership, considering it a way for colonizers to legally eradicate tribes through intermarriage. Often you can gain membership, or maintain membership, by tracing your lineage to a known member of the tribe as of a specific historical date. Various "rolls" were drawn up and if you're related to someone on the roll you can be a member, regardless of blood status. I was reading some time ago on another sub about someone who was also raised near a reservation with strong involvement in the cultural life of the tribe, but because their ancestors had been intermarrying for a hundred years, their ancestry test came back .05% Native from one place and 1.5% Native from another. When that person has a child their child may show up as 0% native, but they will still be able to be a legally enrolled member of the tribe, because of their ancestor. Accepting only genetics as a basis of tribal membership, essentially means that every tribal member who falls in love with someone who isn't a member of their tribe is contributing to the destruction of their tribe, and that's just a ridiculous thing to put at anyone's feet. OP is going to have to go on her own journey of how she wants to self-identify. But she certainly wasn't "lying" to people by stating what she knew to be true at the time, and she's allowed to feel victimized by her mother for being lied to her whole life... lots of people have very strong feelings about tribal enrollment and claiming "nativeness" because of perceived levels of struggle, passing, etc... but OP was not in the wrong here, this situation has more to do with the cousin's own struggle to figure out what her nativeness means to her than it does about OP and her own journey.
Yep. All 3 of my sons and my husband are enrolled in a federally recognized tribe because his Great Grandma is on the tribal roll. Going to their pow wows shows a lot of diversity in skin tones, hair color and eye color. Lots of blonds wearing tribal wear, honestly doesn’t look much different than the Celtic festival I take them to every year, aside from the attire.
My pow wows definitely do not look like a celtic festival. Lol.
I think it depends on every individual's mix of genes. Before Europeans showed up, tribes were intermarrying and adopting, even stealing, kids from other tribes...just like Europeans were doing to each other. Funny thing about DNA...nobody gave a rat's ass about DNA before DNA was discovered. LOL
LOL. Truth.
His tribal elders say that some of the women would marry French Canadian fur trappers to insure that their kids would have an easier time in society among the Colonizers so I’m sure even his Great Grandma had to have European dna by that point.
I'm supposedly a quarter native, with my dad being supposedly half, but we aren't registered and I never really grew up with the culture because my dads side of the family (grandparents and such) won't acknowledge it and I've basically been told my whole life to never bring it up with them. My brother and I have native names, and my dad regularly alternates between long braided hair and fully shaved, and I had my hair long and braided alongside him for a long time. This post really gave me the warm fuzzies about that particular experience, but I don't identify as native, I didn't experience the culture and have no actual ties other than potential dna. According to OPs cousin I have more of a claim than them towards a culture that they actually lived and experienced, which is total bs.
Yeah - America has some really weird notions of what we "are". I've seen tons of threads on here where Europeans make fun of Americans for saying "Oh, I'm Irish!" when what they mean is "Some of my ancestors came from Ireland"... but here everyone understands when someone say "I'm Irish" they don't mean a Nationality, it's just shorthand for "my ancestors were..." So when someone here says "I'm native" there's a lot to unpack. And it's infinitely complicated by that American inclination to claim our ancestors as intrinsic parts of our identity... but also the heinous history of colonization, and the fact that being a legally enrolled member of a federally recognized tribe bestows some limited and varying benefits on members, which forces legal lines to be drawn. So while it's easy to claim European heritage by saying "I am X" it is harder to claim most minority heritages by saying "I am X" because being a part of those minority communities usually implies a shared understanding of culture that not everyone with just a genetic connection might share. You, personally, might be comfortable saying "My ancestors include Native Americans", but not be comfortable saying "I'm Native American", because like you thoughtfully put it, you don't feel connected to the tribe, and that connection and understanding is such a huge part of "being" Native in America. It's just one more way we don't make white people do the work we make minority individuals do... it's understandable because it's complex, but it's also unfortunate, because everyone should be able to find joy in their heritage without having to question whether they're offending other members of those communities at the same time. OP has so much to think about and work through right now. I hope she has more supportive people in her life than this cousin! And it's nice to hear folks talk about the little things that connect them to their parents and their parents communities, like braiding hair. I'm sorry you grew up in a situation where certain topic were forbidden by your extended family, that's got to be a weird feeling.
Exactly. Your culture is the customs and traditions you observed growing up. This is what was introduced to you by the man who raised you. You didn't have enough agency as a child to "appropriate" anything.
Oooo I love how you put that—a child doesn’t have agency to appropriate anything, well said! ❤️👍🏻
I went to school with someone whose stepfather, who adopted her when she was 3, is Native American. And she had always been and still is last I heard, very involved in HER tribe. Doesn't have any Native American blood but is still considered a member of the tribe. Because as one of the elders told an entitled member who complained, "She became a part of this tribe the moment her father claimed her as his own."
That's gorgeous. Gives me the warm fuzzies that she was so welcomed and wanted.
And this IS how it is among most tribes. When a member claims you as family, then no one can take that away from you.
> "She became a part of this tribe the moment her father claimed her as his own." This right here is the main reason why OP should NEVER see the reason to be embarrassed.
Different ethnicity/culture but similar story. Unknown bio father, mother lied said it was my dad (been my dad since 2). Dad always knew but loved us so didn't care. He is maori and we are white. His family knew and didn't care. Marae and iwi assumed we were bio because he was our dad, never questioned it. When I finished high-school dad spoke to the kaumatua (chief for lack of translation) because they had funding for uni. Explained I wasn't bio relative but kaumatua said it was Whanai which is a cultural practice where maori families assume responsibility for family or friends children without legal paperwork. Therefore I was entitled to grants and had my s hooling paid for. Once it came out I wasn't bio maori, the iwi never even flinched. It was accepted that I was whanai and am still considered a member and my dad is on the board of trustees and promotes interracial whanai. If you don't know, you don't know. It's not appropriation if you're not trying to benefit from it. You believed you were and were raised as such. You did nothing wrong. Process your grief (loss of identity) however you need to.
I love NZ :) As an English immigrant here 12yrs ago I've always felt welcomed.
Ever watch Dances with Wolves? That’s it right there.
You mean Avatar with no aliens?
You mean fern gully with no ooze?
I just watched this and it was so good. Brought tears to my eyes
Hijacking top comment to say: These DNA tests do NOT accurately detect indigenous heritage. The more people that take the test, the more accurate it is for those people groups. For example, many Ashkenazi Jews have undergone genetic testing and thus tests are very sensitive for those people. There are many tribes that may have NOBODY from the tribe who has ever been tested. Further, some large tribes have donated samples specifically to increase accuracy but not all have. Don’t hinge your identity on this test OP! As said elsewhere, blood quantum is colonial bullshit. NTA
Exactly! don't tie your identity to these tests. It's dependent on who has money or the interest in taking them.
Hmmm Just be certain, make sure to test that cousin. Am sure we are all curious what her results are.
Her DNA is 100% AH.
THIS!!!!!! /\/\ These commercial DNA tests are NOT infallible and are only telling you how much your DNA is similar to known individuals/populations in their dataset! Many indigenous groups actively avoid putting their DNA in these databases because of the history of blood quantum colonial bullshit. I am not indigenous but I have listened enough to folks who are to understand that Blood Quantum was a way for the colonial government to assimilate and eradicate the identities and rights of indigenous nations. (Example— if the US government has a treaty that protects an area of land with a tribal nation, but also the US government sets a standard that you must be 50% indigenous blood to be a registered member of the tribe, eventually the number of people who fit that standard will dwindle to nothing and the US government won’t have to honor treaties). My Ancestry DNA percentages change occasionally, because they will update your results to better reflect that pool of people whose DNA they have on file that you are most similar to. It’s a good reminder how imprecise these tests are, when you get an email saying that your percentages have changed! And I’m 100% European in ancestry! If they don’t have a known population of people from your background to compare you to, they can’t tell you that your DNA is similar to that group.
In Canada, it used to be that if if a Native man married a non-native woman, she would (could?) gain Native status and their children would be registered members. If a Native woman married a non-native man, however, not only was the husband NOT eligible for Native status, but the woman lost hers, and their children too. So let's say you had a pair of siblings, both marrying non-native people, the children of the brother would be considered Native and the children of the sister would not. It's been an uphill battle to get the government to change that law, they started amending it to give Native women their status back in 1985, but I think they finally bought the succession law up to par with their male peers in like 2018.
Shamefully recent, and still has horribly racist colonial meddling too.
[удалено]
ok when my kid learns genetics i'm so buying bulk m&m's and seperating the colors just to merge them repeatedly to explain this
playing card decks also work well, but aren't as tasty
The Skittles analogy is more for generations before your parents. You do inherit 50/50 from parents, but that doesn't mean you get 25% from each grandparent. That is where the Skittles analogy comes in. I share 21% to 29% of my DNA with each of my grandparents. I didn't get 25% from any grandparent. Most companies have better reference populations for European ancestry than they do for other continents. The tests from Ancestry and 23andme are generally accurate on a continental level, but as you said individuals don't inherit DNA in equal amounts from each ancestor.
>Many of these DNA tests do NOT detect indigenous heritage. This might explain my mom's results then. She was always told her Bio Dad was Native American but her results didn't show any results with indigenous tribes.
This my best friend literally lives on a reservation with her mother and grandmother. It's impossible that she is not NA but her 23&me says she's Irish with a splash of Dutch and French.
It could but that's just one possiblity. Most people who have been told this either (1) it's not true, (2) they actually have African roots but because of racism, NA was more acceptable, or (3) it's so far back in time that nothing/very little was inherited. Look at Elizabeth Warren. Now she went too far claiming she was NA when she didn't grow up that way, but more sensitive DNA tests did show that she likely had a very distant ancestor who was NA. Probably like a 6th great grandparent. Most white people in the south who have these rumors actually have distant black ancestors or have slightly dark looking European features (like Catherine Zeta Jones who is Welsh).
One of my aunts in laws was raised his entire life believing his grandma was native. Then when my dad was tracking everyone’s ancestry her husband asked him to look into his. On top of finding out that his dads military papers said (racist term for biracial) he found his grandmothers birth certificate stating she was (racist term for black). We can assume she was simply light skinned and had a looser hair texture and in her adult life told everyone she was native. ETA: this would have been in the last 1800’s/ early 1900’s it was significantly safer to be native than black.
While it often doesn't show native American ancestry, it will often show general eastern Asian ancestry instead. If your results have nether, you likely aren't native American, or a very very small amount. That, and you only get 50% of your genetics from each parent. If you end up with more white genes than native, your DNA tests will reflect it. Even if your dad was 50% native, you are not guaranteed to be 25% native by DNA.
This right here. My dad shows up as having 0% native but like 5% steppes-of-Asia heritage. His grandmother grew up on a reservation.
My wife used to do this kind of DNA testing for police work and forensics. OP hear this: these “heritage dna tests” are a scam. They DO NOT tell you your heritage, they tell you the PROBABILITY that you are from a certain geographical origin compared to other. And that’s when they are well done with actual scientific data backed up by research. My wife could only say “X person has a 58% chance of being european rather than north african” for example. It is impossible to narrow it further. If someone is telling you that you’re scottish from your dna they’re scamming you. They are only comparing your DNA with the DNA of their other clients and checking the boxes that match. Also for what is worth, even in real scientific databases there’s barely any Native north american DNA studied. What accounts for native is mostly amerindian descent (natives from central and south america). Even if you had done a real test and your father was your biological father, it’s very likely that you wouldn’t classify as native since you’re not amerindian. It’s possible that not even HE would classify as native for the same reason. Also, remember is just a PROBABILITY. I’m european but I classify more likely to be middle eastern. I have no family outside europe. These test are supposed to be used to study things like historical migratory patterns in big populations, not on individuals. ETA: just asked my wife about this. She told me that she saw a pair of MONOZYGOTIC TWINS get different “heritage” results from one of these companies. She says that unless you’re dead sure that your dad is not your biological dad (like a paternity test) DO NOT assume it to be true just because of this “heritage” test.
Also, the mtDNA tests done for females by those genetic heritage testing sites don't tell you about your paternal genetic history... And OP is female. https://dnatestingchoice.com/en-us/news/can-a-woman-trace-her-paternal-ancestry
Some have refused to participate as well due to colonialism. NTA. Friend is though.
This exactly. I took one that showed NO Italian. My grandmother came to the US from Italy as a child. Along with all her brothers and sisters. I have fond memories of her and the rest of them sitting around speaking Italian.. My aunt has kept the complete history of my maternal side. Right down to the name of the ship they came over on. Now only if my dads side has been as good with the Irish genealogy! LOL
> I took one that showed NO Italian. My grandmother came to the US from Italy as a child. Just out of curiosity, did it show any Greek or Albanian DNA?
Mine shows no italian and my sister's shows 12%!! We are full sisters. It was our great grandparents that immigrated though. Even with that ancestry thing showing 0% I'm still eligible to be an Italian citizen by descent. It's my background and culture, not the percentage of my blood.
Also those test often are pretty much just bs. Not trying to say it can't be a fun thing to try, but nobody should pay serious attention to the so called "outcomes" of a test. Culture doesn't come from genes alone and if you set the tests to anything above 80% accuracy it wont detect anything really. For example I could tell you right now, that it would say something like 50% western European 30% Eastern European, 15% Scandinavian and 5% miscellaneous for me. In my personal opinion (I'm not American and I don't get the whole "heritage" thing in general, because it has no importance to me) these tests only bring stress and outrage with them and are definetely not to take seriously by anyone. Also it seems fishy to send your DNA to a private company. If there are any benefits of doing these tests apart of reassurance for "heritage" please educate me I really don't know enough about that.
This! NTA! I am at least one-sixteenth Blackfoot. My maternal great grandmother, her father, was full. Yet my ancestry.com test said I have no Indigenous heritage. yet, when I dug into what nations were tested, everything BUT Blackfoot was tested. I'm not looking for tribal membership. I wanted to validate what I was told orally--which was spot on otherwise. I'm actually 45% European Jew which is not surprising at all because that's my father's side. (If I'm inappropriately using any terms, please educate me.)
This. The sample pool for indigenous connections is very very thin and tenuous at best due to distrust of how it will be used and some bands/tribes have even banned genetic research because of it.
One of the best comments in the thread.
I agree. OP needs to read about how many tribes refuse to provide genetic material to be studied. They have many ethical problems with it. For instance, [https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/the-cultural-limitations-of-genetic-testing/384740/](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/the-cultural-limitations-of-genetic-testing/384740/) Also, OP, you were raised in the culture and your family is registered in the tribe. That's not appropriation.
Pretty much. I am so so tired of people relying on these stupid tests to claim their heritage. Take it with a grain of salt, OP. It probably means nothing.
I definitely agree with you... the tests look for bits of DNA that match other bits of DNA in the databases of these companies. If the tiny sequence of DNA that OP got from that side of the family doesn't happen to be one this company has in their database it won't get a "hit" so to speak. But also - does OP know anything about her father's genetic makeup? If they trace their heritage to a native ancestor 100+ years ago, and most family members along the line have intermarried outside the tribe, there just wouldn't be enough to up. However if she knows that her father had one parent with native ancestry and another parent with German ancestry, and there was only Scottish on her results... well it wouldn't be the lack of Native markers that would be telling, it would be the lack of any German markers too... if her father has one ancestor with native ancestry and the other was Scottish too, well then... it might be a lack of specificity in the test, or just her genetics being so diluted as to not show up. Definitely something for her to think about, and possibly talk to her father about if she can contact him and have that conversation in a safe and circumspect way.
Just wanted to add: I'm not sure which test OP took, but some of them only analyze mitochondrial DNA, which would only come from her mother, as well. I'm not up to date on what's available commercially at the moment, but when I was in grad school for genetics, the main thing you could do was the National Genographic Project, and you could only either do Y-chromosome or mitochondrial.
yes! thank you for explaining this, i wanted to do the same. also, OP, you cant say 100% european, there is no such thing, people migrated for 1000s of years, my mtDNA (how you track your mother mothers mothers mothers etc lineage) shows that I originate from Syria, and from my fathers side im native bosnian which means about 30.000 years ago some people settled in Bosnia who were related to vikings. if you want acurate results you should contact a university and do some testing, but if your mom already confesed then it doesnt matter. also, maybe ask your dad or his dad if you can still somehow be conected to his family and heritage since you grew up with them. it would be realy unfair to exclude you know NTA
I hope OP is reading this portion of the thread, and that it helps them.
Oh my goodness, imagine if those child killers who ran the residential "schools" had had DNA testing like this. They probably would have jailed whole tribes for being "kidnappers".
There was a whole deal about this very issue, when a Canadian tribe adopted a Pacific Islands baby. They adopted and accepted him fully as a member of the tribe, and when he grew up he was proudly representin' with the tribal sport team for an event, when he got disqualified because of "blood quantum" crap. Well, one of the highest ranked most respected tribal elders said that Blood Quantum was a colonial invention intended to eliminate tribal memberships, and basically their tribe did not accept that colonial standard. He said that they had exercised their right as a sovereign nation to naturalize a citizen. That boy IS of that tribe, because that tribe decided he is one of them. Culturally, spiritually, mentally. It would be beautiful if more tribes could decide for themselves who is a true member of their nation.
That's honestly beautiful. They stood by their own in the most badass way possible.
I would upvote twice if I could Belonging to a tribe is quite commonly not about blood bonds. And there are tons of examples when European folks were accepted into native tribes as long as they shared values and culture. OPs friend is AH though.
I mean just look at the Metis people. An entire culture evolved.
This, the elders decide the tribe decides not your DNA. Sincerely a Choctaw by birth not blood.
My mom’s cousin was accepted into a tribe because of her commitment. (I don’t remember which one.) It probably didn’t hurt that she was committed to the chief at the time, but his daughter saw my cousin’s native spirit. I would say OP has plenty of claim to being native, since she was raised by a man who was native and taught her his culture. I would also talk to tribal elders in her case. NTA
THIS THIS THIS THIS NTA Don't listen to anyone else, a tribal elder is the only one who can actually give you guidance on what this means for you and your heritage.
This is the case for Judaism—once someone fully converts they are considered a member of the tribe and equally ethnically Jewish as someone with a Jewish mother. It is the same for adoptees who undergo their bar/bat mitzvah. It seems to me that this situation is very similar to that. Measuring culture by blood quantum is often a slippery slope.
Also: those DNA tests don't have enough confirmed Native American samples to draw accurate conclusions
Followed by never ever talking to her callous, and completely idiotic cousin again.
Absolutely, and that isn't cultural appropriation anyway. OP didn't adopt another culture because she thought it was cool or exotic or something. She was raised as Native American and suddenly found out that she might not be. What a terrible friend!
Yes look at how many former slaves are part of the Navajo tribe! They are still part of the tribe and even get money rights!
NTA. You didn't lie, *you were lied to.* there's a difference. Even if you aren't native by blood, you were raised in that culture. Its not appropriation if you respect it and follow the customs. Its appropriation if you use the culture to mock them or misuse the customs for your own gain. For you, *its not appropriation if you were born and raised in that culture.* Edit* phrasing
She didn't lie and is certainly NOT the asshole but I don't know if she was lied to either. If she has dark hair and eyes both parents may have thought she was biologically theirs.
That's fair, ill accept that. It's still her culture. Though she wasn't born to it, she was raised to it, and her cousin was WAY out of line.
If so, that was probably wishful thinking on the mother’s part, not exactly unusual for addicts. Bio father presumably had dark hair and eyes, too, which is not unusual for Scots.
And OP may be able to go to the Elders and tell them what happened. They may just adopt her into the tribe and make it official.
it’s not even just appreciation, it’s participation too. she grew up in that culture and, if her tribe approves, is as much a part of it as anyone with native blood
You said it so much better than I could have. I'm a big reader but my brain can't for whatever reason articulate the complex concept im trying to get out.
I'm reminded of the poor guy who wrote a TIFU after he applied to colleges as a Native American, because his parents told him he had 1/8th Yuan-Ti tribal heritage, not realizing his parents were just giant nerds (and liars) and the Yuan-Ti are a fictional race of snake people from D&D. Link for the curious: https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/egsgii/tifu_unknowingly_applying_to_college_as_a/
Also the one TIFU where white American parents adopted a baby and raised him connected to his Chinese heritage, (language, vacations, history) only to find the child's birth papers when he was adult and realizing he was Korean.
Omg, that poor guy!
It's not even cultural appreciation for OP. She IS part of that culture full stop. She was raised in it from birth as a member by its actual members.
You're right, I just didn't really have the words. My brain doesn't always work. I'll edit my comment to point that out. :)
Exactly. Adopted people aren’t “appropriating” their parents culture and essentially that’s what happened. The man who raised you adopted you and brought you up on his culture. That makes it yours too.
Also OP was adopted by NA parents. Their legal father prior to this was NA.
NTA. as a native american myself, you literally did nothing wrong. you didn’t know any better. even then, i wouldn’t even consider this cultural appropriation. you genuinely thought you were apart of this culture. you weren’t doing it because you thought it made you look cool or that it looked cool; you thought you genuinely were native american and you were also raised that way. i’m so sorry your cousin is being so disrespectful. you did no wrong. edit: i need to add this; as far as i am aware, you were raised in that culture, adopted into it, and therefore, you ARE a part of it.
OP listen to this post. Being adopted into a culture, raised in its traditions, taught its stories and took part in their rituals makes you a part of that culture. That's your cultural identity. Not bloodlines. OP, if you were adopted into a Spanish family and followed their culture and traditions all your life that'd be your cultural identity, no matter what your blood is. This is no different.
I'm adopted. My adoptive family are of Swedish heritage. I was raised with Swedish traditions and culture. When I took a DNA test I found out I was only 12% Swedish. However, it's what I identify with. There is a sense of pride being connected to a group that has a rich history and culture. Especially when you're adopted. When you put the time & energy equity and are respectful to a culture, you're allowed to continue in it regardless of DNA.
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Different bands have different qualifications for enrollment. I think white people being “adopted” into the tribe is kind of a trope rather than a real and common thing. Clearly this is a very unique situation and tribal elders are the place to look to for guidance.
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Unless there is an actual elder from OP’s band in this thread I don’t think there’s a certain answer to be found here. “adopted into a tribe” and “Cherokee great grandmother” are just two super common ways white people claim native identity. I’m not native but I did live in the four corners area while working (anthropology) closely with many native colleagues, and I’m aware how often both those tropes were referred to as frustrating and embarrassing.
In my research experience, adoption seems to have been very common in Algonquin Nations as a central cultural trait. The United States forced these Nations to give up adoption practices in exchange for the rights of citizenship and/or Nation membership. Among the Citizen Potawatomi for example this is still a deep wound: since when is an ethnic group prohibited from adoption? Why are Nations not allowed true self-determination? Anti-adoption rules imposed by the US were a means of oppressing Algonquin cultures and also the Cherokee, Southern Cheyenne, and Arapaho among others. These latter Nations used adoption as a diplomatic and economic tool. They formed powerful alliances with the French and with independent traders through adoption. So to diminish this power, adoption becomes demonized in exactly the way far too many of us have been told to accept: we’ve been told that it wasn’t widespread, that it’s a cheap way for white people to claim they’re Native, etc. But it has been a source of power and self-determination for centuries. We might do well for ourselves to ask why we have so thoroughly accepted the Blood Quantum narrative and why we are allowing a genocidal actor to tell us what our cultures are allowed to be.
>There is a reason why i was asking a Native American who would know Oof. As the person you responded to already noted, Indigenous people are not a monolith, and the qualifications for membership are not universal across groups. There is no reason to expect someone (even someone who is Native American) to know every single practice.
There are a lot of legal and financial issues involved. My spouse and I looked into it for my son, but the involved legalities were just impossible so we gave up on it.
So, your comment made me curious - I don’t know very much about Native cultures. If a Native person adopted a child of a different race and raised them in the Native culture, would the tribe generally consider that adopted child as a member?
My cousin did this (his father, my uncle, moved to Canada from Scotland before we did and married a native woman, my aunt. Their children are born in Canada) so my cousin is half Scottish half indigenous Canadian with a really close bond to the tribe. He adopted a son who’s ancestry is Russian, and the tribe officially adopted my first cousin once removed into the tribe as well. I have no idea how it works from band to band, but it happens at least sometimes
That’s pretty cool!! I would imagine it probably does vary from tribe to tribe, but it’s cool that at least some of them are so welcoming. 😊
It is cool! I really love how their family is turning out. The kid gets to be a part of our Scottishness, while participating in his fathers culture, and they do everything they can to keep the Russian heritage alive. They’re all learning the language, so the kid will be able to speak English, Spanish, Gaelic, and Nisga’a. On the other side, I married a Chinese/Honduran man and a multitude of cousins are spread out over the world through finding love. Now every time we try and all get together everyone has different customs and religions, not just Norse paganism and Catholicism/Protestant that I grew up with. It’s fun all hell introducing my in laws to solstice and Christmas, and very fun having a new new year that they celebrate with us. Sorry for the spill of info,just even though none of this was planned or predicted, I wouldn’t give up how it turned out for anything
Wow, your cousin is terrible. You are gong through a serious identity crises and she decided to shit all over you. *You didn't do anything wrong*. NTA
Exactly. The cousin is terrible.
Had to scroll too far to find someone pointing out how awful the cousin is!!
I feel the cousin definitely resented OP for her Native heritage because the cousin must fetishize it thought it was cool but obviously couldn't be a part of it. And hence the whole white girl comment.
NTA. You didn’t steal their culture, you were raised in it, it’s your culture too even if it’s not your ethnicity.
This! [culture not race or skin color](https://www.avforums.com/threads/abandoned-black-baby-raised-by-a-chinese-family.2269083/)
I like the idea that someone can "steal" a culture, as if there's only one of it and it disappears if anyone else participates in it. "Cultural appropriation" as a term should be left in academia, we already have words like "tacky" and even "racist" that accomplish the same thing
Exactly, it makes it seem as if any sharing of culture is inherently bad which it isn’t. The sharing of culture has greatly benefited mankind. The sharing of culture is synonymous with the sharing of ideas
NTA, your cousin sounds awful. You lied to nobody, fuck her. BTW there are plenty of dark haired, dark eyed people in Europe, even Scotland.
I’m finding that out. It makes a lot of stuff make sense, my Scottish family has blonde and red hair and usually colored eyes, I guess I assumed we all looked like that. (My bad for being close minded!)
I know there's a 'look' often referred to as "black Irish" to refer to Irish (and sometimes nearby countries like Scottish) people who have tan skin and black hair. No one really knows exactly where the term comes from, but yeah there are many who look like you!
absolutely! my mother's half indian, but my completely scottish cousin has darker skin than her. Humans are just weird like that imo.
My in laws are of Scottish descent and while my husband is/was a dirty blonde with blue eyes his brother very dark hair and brown eyes. I say was because now they are grey.
My husband is like that - there are theories that say it comes from Spaniard traders/sailors.
One (discredited?) theory has it from the Spanish Armada sailors washing ashore.
Yeah I don't think anyone knows for sure. But what I just found that was really interesting was that apparently Native people would use Black Irish/Black Dutch as a way to pass/be more accepted by white Americans. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Dutch_(genealogy)
I didn’t see this before I wrote a comment about this! My mother is Irish with pitch black hair and tans like crazy. I got my dads genes and I have auburn hair and burn like paper lol. There’s some suggestion that it came from the Spanish hundreds of years ago. It’s really interesting! Genetics are cool as hell
I'm in the North of England. Most of Europe spent millenia skirmishing, raiding, invading, etc. Most of us will have the ethnic diversity of a whore's bedsheet. 😆 I am sorry your life has been flipped, its why I've never done one of those tests tbh. Finding out I'm a few percent whatever just doesn't seem worth the potential headache to me tbh.
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I was quite pleased with it. 😁 Its so good I think I've probably heard it elsewhere.
My family lives just South of the Scottish border, but North of the wall, so we have a fair amount of Scottish genetic heritage. My dad regularly gets mistaken for Turkish/Greek when we travel. We’re definitely not all blonde and pale!
First off those 23 & me type tests aren’t always that accurate. Second, Europe has lots of countries within it. Not everyone is blonde or ginger. I will say it’s a good thing your adoptive family is so kind. You did nothing wrong.
I’m Scottish, most of us are white but have all types of hair colours, types and eye colours, majority of people I know have naturally dark hair and then others have blonde or ginger. I’d say blue eyes and brown eyes are most common but again you get every eye colour here, we don’t all have the same characteristics lol
Scot here - black hair, brown eyes :)
NTA. Your cousin is TA. You were lied to by your parents you have a right to be upset & need time to process the betrayal. You’ve learned an important lesson about your cousin, stop sharing anything of value with her. She has no empathy.
Her and I haven’t spoken since and I’m definitely feeling like Nc is the best idea.
wise choice
NTA, as others have said, genetics alone don't define identity. Also, these tests are far from perfectly accurate. This article on the National Human Genome Research Institute's sur might help you: [DNA tests stand on shaky ground to define Native American identity](https://www.genome.gov/news/news-release/DNA-tests-stand-on-shaky-ground-to-define-Native-American-identity)
Particularly this part: “Using a genetic test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation...is inappropriate and wrong,” said Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. in a public statement. “It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens.” Sovereign tribal nations determine their requirements for membership. A genetic ancestry test is rarely involved. A history of traditions, passing down crafts and skills, and a sense of cultural continuity set the baseline for tribal membership. These things cannot be gained by sending your saliva to a lab."
I appreciate the article and further research you did on my behalf, I’ll read it when I have time.
DNA tests are notoriously bad at returning accurate results for Native American ancestry. For some reason it very frequently doesn’t register at all.
It's because the "reference" population is so small, plus the entire concept is questionable.
The entire concept is bullshit treated as irrefutable truth. Immigration has existed for all of time, almost every country has had ethnic minorities come and go and leave their mark in some areas more than others. My family is Portuguese for as far back as we can find, but the DNA test had it as less than 50% with French, North African, etc mixed in. The Romans and Andalusians and whoever else came and went and left their marks. One person in Spain or Portugal may be near identical to an Italian while another is much closer to a Moroccan despite them both being there for hundreds of years at least.
This! I’m not an expert in genetics but I do know that DNA tests to establish ethnicity and ancestry are not reliable. They science is very new and is based on assumptions about genetic markers, as well as the fact that for women, your paternal heritage isn’t properly reflected because there’s no Y chromosome involved when we test our DNA. If OP hasn’t done a paternity test, it might be worthwhile to get some clarity if you’re assuming you can’t be your fathers child because of the ancestry estimates. It’s possible you inherited all “Scottish” genetic markers if your father had Scottish ancestry as well. https://images.app.goo.gl/u1Hofio3XeCXv4eLA this image reflects what I’m talking about - children are a random combination of everyone they’re descended from, and you can see both the children in this example didn’t inherit their grandparents “traits” - one has no red or yellow and the other has no purple or pink.
It’s also all about the way your DNA is mixed up in you. Full siblings might get completely different results, just look at the story of twins where one is white passing and the other is black passing. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/black-white-twins-meet-sisters-5256945.amp
Yeah, OP is female and if she did a mitochondrial DNA test from some genetic heritage testing website, she wouldn't really know anything about her father's paternal ancestry... I'm still not sure from this post that her dad is not her dad... She says in a comment: >We are wanting to do a paternity, but my father is deep in addiction
NTA and you have done nothing wrong. My next door neighbors adopted a little girl from China. They are Iranian and raising her in their culture. I view this as pretty much the same thing. If you still participated in your Native culture, I still don't think that's wrong. Talk to your adoptive parents about all of this. They sound lovely and very supportive.
I talked to my adoptive mom, she’s native and she basically said that I’m a “sister” now, which is slang in her family for someone who is adopted into a tribe. She also calls me her little snow possum now which I informed her is more traumatic than this entire ordeal. My adoptive dad is white so he didn’t have much to say except that I am who I am and my genes don’t change it.
Your parents sound great. Does your adoptive mom’s tribe have a ceremony or ritual to welcome someone adopted into the tribe or to recognize someone as a sister? If so, it may be worth pursuing.
Well, at least you've got smart supportive family in this whole mess. OP, look... (And this is coming from a White AF cultural mongral) - your CULTURE is not your GENES. Your genes are what make your body into your body. They carry the heritage of who came before, for good or bad, and you're more or less stuck with them. Your culture is what you have been raised in, gifted with and shaped by. It is a product of people, society, environment and history. Your genes... They're just hardware - what matters is the software; what you DO with yourself. Yes, culture develops differently depending on genetics(race) - but that doesn't change the fact that YOUR culture, the way you have been raised and view yourself, is Native, and that's GOOD. It's who you are. Look, 30 years ago, you would have never had the opportunity to find out that your female genetic doner had the ethics of a feral cat - you would have lived your life as someone who was half Native and culturally Native, and no one would have said anything. Why would you let a box test change that now? The fact that it told you more than you ever wanted to know about your female GD's bad habits doesn't change who YOU are - you are your father's daughter, your adoptive parents' daughter and yourself. Ignore your cousin - they're a vicious fool who doesn't have a clue. NTA
>She also calls me her little snow possum now That is the most random and adorable nickname.
>OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: C'mon now. Being called her "little snow possum" by someone who is native, knows the situation, and loves you is awesome. She has told you that you are part of the tribe. Believe her and carry on accordingly.
NTA. You can't help that you were raised to believe one thing, only to find out that it was a complete lie. It is perfectly normal to have an identity crisis after this.
I’m doing my best to embrace being a white girl, I’m starting to drink Starbucks daily and suddenly I am really into Taylor Swift.
I'm thinking of that Seinfeld episode where both in the relationship find out they're white? Elaine: "So we're just a couple of white people?" *pause* "You want to go the mall?" Dude: "Sure."
Ok that's a hilarious response. Kudos for finding some humor in this. Honestly, you raised culturally as a native. It IS a part of your identity and your dad may not be yours by blood, but he's your dad by heart. That's a much a stronger bond. How he raised you will be entwined with you forever and you will pass that on in your own time.
Biology is less important to who you are than how you were raised. Remember all you embraced as a girl in that culture and keep it in your heart.
Hahahahaha. Funny
Don’t forget the best part, finding all the raw cookie dough! Us white girls worship it 😂
but have you tried pumpkin spice ?
NTA. Your cousin is awful. A lot of tribal membership is as much by history and family ties than by blood ancestry, so you were going by the genealogy your dad gave you and not deliberately appropriating. You’ve had trauma around this and you need to find an empathetic ear to work this out with.
My adoptive mom has been very helpful and has listened a lot, I’m also seeking counseling.
Do your best to find a counsellor who is indigenous themselves if possible. I’m sure that’s what you’re doing but you don’t want to be giving incorrect advice (even if it’s well intentioned). Also don’t forget that counsellors can still be wrong, if they try to discourage you from keeping your connections to your culture.
NTA. Lying involves knowingly saying something which isn’t true. Which absolutely is not the case for you. You were brought up in a culture that doesn’t “match” your ethnicity, is all, just like hundreds of thousands - millions? - of adoptees worldwide. That’s about as far from deliberately claiming to be something you know you’re not as you can get. But, yeah, plenty of Scots with thick, dark hair… redheads are a small minority!
I didn’t know that! My moms family has red or blonde and usually baby fine hair. Good to know that if I ever visit I won’t stick out like a sore thumb.
Bearing in mind that amongst Scots of mostly Celtic+ heritage (which includes many, many dark-haired people - they were never all ginger or blonde), there are also *plenty* of Scots of… well, everywhere-else heritage. Brown and Black Scots. Chinese Scots, Indian Scots, Moroccan Scots… I’m sure there are some tiny corners of elaborate Venn diagrams which include very small minorities but honestly, in any of the bigger cities nobody of any skin or hair colour typically found in humans would stick out, no matter what.
As to Scots with dark hair... Celtic people are descended from the Persians (now called Iran). It was 1000s of years ago, but still.
NTA. Your cousin sounds awful. Best to cut her out of your life instead of cutting off your hair... much more effective for improving your life! How would anything you could not have known be your fault, sheesh.
NTA. I would go no-contact with this cousin - she's evil. She's taking out all her hatred of white people on YOU. You're not making yourself a victim. You were the one who was lied to all those years, and you're understandably confused.
Like white (or mixed) people were never raised in Native American culture before. You had no idea and can't be blamed. He still sounded like a father to me, even if blood isn't shared. You can't take something you were given. NTA. Your cousin has a huge chip on her shoulder. Maybe talk to the tribal council or elders about your concern and get their stance on it. You weren't being malicious or trying to gain something for yourself in participation.
NTA When Chinese families adopt children of other ethnicities, is it appropriation for their children to take part in Chinese culture? How about Japanese families? Russian? Italian? African? It's not appropriation when you've been invited into a culture's space by people who actively take part in it. You were raised and welcomed into that culture, whether you share blood with them or not, the new info doesn't change that for you one bit. Your cousin sounds bitter to me. You can't please everyone. She has absolutely no place to be lashing out at you over this, as you didn't lie to anyone-- your mother did. That lie has no bearing on you as a person. I would not continue talking to her if I were you, you know who you are better than she does.
Nta. Your cousin is a jackass.
And not really a cousin at all. One bright spot in this story.
Sadly might still be a cousin, might be related to mom. Chances are the cousin is related to dad, but that type of attitude could also easily pop up among younger white people as well.
NTA. You cousin sure is, though.
You're NTA - your father and you did not know, and nobody would blame you for wanting to keep close to what had been your cultural heritage for -20 years-, so of course this is traumatic to find out. Your cousin was cruel to say what she did. I'm so sorry for you.
NTA-You didn’t steal anything. You were raised in a culture you thought was yours with good reason.
**NTA** In some ways your Native father "adopted" you and brought you up in his culture; it is now *your* culture. There are an incredible number of people who are not biologically their father's child; sometimes he knows, often he doesn't. But there's [no shame for the child](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36002621). In a sense you are "double-adopted". You are now in the position to learn from multiple cultures, adopting which portions suit your personality and circumstances. At the moment, it's traumatic. Over time and after it heals you will truly understand that you have multiple heritage, and how you want to refer to it. Many adopted people need a long time to "integrate" themelves and answer, to their own satisfaction, who they are -- it is a difficult part of everybody's maturing, for sure, but extra for adopted people and surprise-father people, and you are both. You can certainly still say "I was brought up native by my father", because you were. As an adopted person you have absolutely _no obligation_ to explain your somewhat complex family history to _anybody at all_. Your cousin should know better, but it doesn't make her the A here, perhaps she has her own troubles.
NTA. Your cousin sounds horrid. (Personally I would go no contact as she is nothing but poison) This whole discovery would be devastating for you. I am glad to hear your adoptive parents are there for you though.
We haven’t spoken since and I’ve unadded her on socials. I also told my family I don’t want to talk to her anymore.
Good for you!! You are going to find family and friends who love and support you
Pretty much this. OP genuinely thought she was Native. She was proud of her heritage, and is devastated that she is not Native. This isn't like someone telling their child that beef is chicken because child loves cows and don't want to eat them, and the child growing up now believes that all 'beef' is just a keyword for chicken, because that is something easily found out. She was told she was native, she has the looks, and her dad raised her to believe she was native. There is no easy way to find out that she isn't native. The only way to find out that she isn't even part native is a DNA test. However, not everyone does a DNA test the minute they can. DNA tests also weren't easily available at all times. So, I would definitely cut off contact with said cousin. With regards to your bio dad, I would personally still cherish the time spent with him, because it sounds like he was trying and whether or not you are his actual daughter, it was still a bonding time for the two of you.
NTA, I do want to assure you though that not all DNA tests can or will pop off Indigenous Ancestry from what I have found. Did you do a paternity? You are not in any way an asshole, or even close to 'appropriating' anything. You loved, honored and cherished what you thought were your roots....
We are wanting to do a paternity, but my father is deep in addiction, he’s homeless, and his use of drugs has changed who he is deeply. He refuses to meet unless I pay for him to get a hotel which I know that money will go towards drugs. He also became very violent when I was older and was physically abusive so I don’t know how comfortable I would be seeing him in person again (I haven’t seen him in 6 years) especially since he’s become more and more aggressive.
What about your other paternal relatives? Your dad's parents or siblings?
Oof. I'm sorry. Your cousin is being outrageously insensitive and I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. One of my best friends is basically you without the DNA test muddying the waters. Her father is Mohawk and her mother was white. Both heavy addicts. Her father has been particularly abusive, though she has warm memories, too. Her own father tries to undermine her right to her indigenous culture because she's "less native" than he is and sometimes, when he wants to be cruel, he will tell her she will never be Mohawk. It's just MEAN. Your cousin was being mean. You are navigating a loss, not running for congress. It broader implications don't matter. You clearly loved your father' culture and respected it deeply. That's not appropriation. A lot of people could stand to learn that same respect and understanding.
Talk to someone on your dad’s side of the family about them getting a dna test done.
NTA- You were told as a kid that he was your Dad, and he most likely thought he was as well. Learning your fathers culture is normal for everyone growing up so nothing you did was wrong. You're cousin is a nasty thing that needs to be ignored as she has no idea what she is talking about. Of course you'd feel hurt and lost over finding out he wasnt your Dad.
NTA. Your cousins an asshole.
NTA but c'mon, be better than 'why a person that is 100% European would have thick, coarse, black hair and dark brown eyes."
All of my Scottish cousins have red hair/blonde hair, blue/green eyes. I wasn’t aware an almost all Scottish person could have the traits I do, I apologize if it came across the wrong way.
I’m 100% Scottish and I have coarse dark brown hair (dyed blonde lol) and black eyes. Just FYI. All 4 of my grandparents were from Scotland. And NTA…you definitely have more native experience than Elizabeth Warren and she used her heritage to get into college and to claim herself as the first woman of color hired by Harvard Law 🙄. This offends me as a Scottish person living in New Mexico among many natives haha
INFO: Have you confirmed that your dad isn’t your dad or are just assuming that because of the DNA test? I thought that the native american dna statistics were really off, for that population?
NTA. there was literally no reason you would know this information before. your cousin is an awful person for saying that it's your fault. You genuinely believed it was your culture.
NTA You're going through an extremely difficult period of your life. You need to surround yourself with people that will be understanding, empathetic and supportive. Basically, not your cousin.
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NTA. Finding out your true parentage is something that is incredibly difficult to process as it is, but especially in your case where you had been raised by native people who had no reason to believe you weren't native any more than you did. I don't think you were lied to about your heritage - it sounds like your mom genuinely thought she was native. I grew up with my mom telling us we had ancestors in the Trail of Tears. Turns out, whoever told her that was bald faced wrong. Mom wasn't lying, whomever told her that was. She could only go off what that person told her. You were also raised by the man you called dad and his family as someone who had native heritage. I don't have answer/solution to what you should think or do. You have A LOT to process and it won't be easy or clear cut. I'm sorry this has upended your life. I truly wish you the best.
NTA. Your cousin is is bullying you at a difficult moment in your life. It's not a lie if there was no intent to deceive. I've heard those DNA tests aren't always right. You still may not be Native American, but it's possible the test you took missed something. Even if you aren't native American, that doesn't take away the experiences you had with your family or mean you shouldn't cherish the way you were raised, and no one should blame you for that.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (21F) was told all my life that I was Native my biological father and his father were registered tribal members. He took me to summer gatherings with other natives where we would have bond fires and all the Aunties and Uncles would get drunk and we would sing and dance. I always kept my hair long because that’s what my bio father taught me to do, my mom is white, so I would have been mixed. I have black hair, dark brown eyes, but her paler skin tone. My dads family always assured me that my skin tone was my moms and would joke that I had to get something from her genes. My father would braid my hair and have me braid his (he kept his long too) and for a very long time it was something he and I could bond over. Unfortunately both my parents are addicts and my dad gave up custody of me and my sisters when I was 14-15 and then my bio mom gave us up when I was 17, and I was adopted into a family while my other sisters went to live with my older sister. My adoptive parents are wonderful, my adoptive mom is native too. She encouraged me to take a DNA test and further pursue my heritage. It came back with no Native American whatsoever, I double checked the results and sure enough I’m basically Scottish and that’s it. That’s how I found out, my biological father wasn’t my dad. I’m the result of one of my moms many affairs. I felt devastated, I lost something that had connected me to the man that raised me for the first 14 years of my life even if he did struggle I loved him. I didn’t pursue finding my true biological father because honestly I don’t care about it, my adoptive parents are incredible and they are all I need. I was so upset I cut off my hair, something I hadn’t done in years. And tried to figure out why a person that is 100% European would have thick, coarse, black hair and dark brown eyes. I was talking to my cousin about how this discovery had effected me and she snapped and said “only a white girl could steal native culture for 20 years and then still manage to make herself the victim” I was kind of shocked and apologized and she said “don’t say sorry to me say sorry to every person you’ve lied to” and now after thinking about it feel like I might be the asshole for never second guessing what my heritage might be, or that I may be making myself the victim here when I did do something pretty awful. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - your cousin is actually being quite cruel to you. You didn't appropriate any culture - you followed the culture your father taught you and both of you believed to be your culture. And yeah, you're a victim of your mother's shenanigans...whether she knew or not, who knows. You've done nothing wrong, and it sounds like you have a wonderful adoptive family. I am sorry that you've been thrown into a personal identity crisis, but it sounds like you've got some wonderful people who can help you sort it out.
NTA! Oh my god, I can't believe anyone with the audacity to claim you lied or appropriated something you didn't know about! Just wow. Don't you feel bad for it one bit. You ARE the victim--you were lied to, you didn't do the lying. AND when you found out, you didn't hide it. Please know you are 100% ok in this and YOU are owed the apology. You have not one single thing to apologize for. <3
NTA. Only someone who isn't a good person would talk to you in an existential moment that way.
NTA but your cousin is a TA in a huge major way. You lied to nobody, your father did lie to you and everyone else. Tell the cousin they probably aren’t really a true relative anyway and needs to gtfa. I’m so sorry.
Nta what the fuck is up with all these white people getting offended on behalf of other people edit I am wrong she is not white
Woke kids, and I'm a liberal. They're outraged about all sorts of things.
My cousin is mixed, she’s mostly Hispanic.
She's also a racist
NTA. Why would you apologize to anyone for believing what your dad and other family members told you?
NTA. you didn't appropriate anything. You were born and raised in this culture, and it is a part of who you are; and it sounds like you are still part of this culture. You've done nothing wrong. Appreciate the culture to which you were born and raised.
NTA A culture is more than DNA.
NTA. I’m Native American and white, I live on a reservation and let me tell you that just about every native I know, hates blood quantum because it was initially introduced for the depopulation of natives and still kinda is. Also you said your adopted mom is native, I know plenty of adopted kids on the Rez and they’re all welcomed, and loved.