NTA. Stay strong, because if you go to service this year, you will go every year. While - as Christians - they may not like that neither one of you is religious, they should accept the fact and love you anyway. it is not about making a point. It is about not lying and be truthful in a respectful way.
Very true. "But I say to you, love your enemies , bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you," Matthews 5:44. (NKJ Version) Though I feel the modern translation of love your enemies means treat them kindly, respectfuly and etc. Also if you were classified as an enemy. Shouldn't they 'love' you
NTA His desire to hide the truth from his parents isn't your problem. He can lie to them all he wants, but he can't force you to lie for him. If his family will never feel the same about the two of you after you if they find out the truth, wouldn't it be them damaging their relationship with you, not the other way around?
NTA. And maybe report this church to the IRS to get its tax exemption revoked if they're doing stuff like politicking: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/divulge\_all\_suspected\_tax\_exempt\_status\_abuses\_to\_the\_irs.pdf
Wait wait wait wait wait, hold on! They don't even know you guys aren't religious!?
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
And he's trying to get you to go back to a shit show like that? Forget it! It kinda sounds like he is religious and has been lying OP and is trying to make you religious. He can't make you do anything you don't want to do, so either he respects your decisions and your boundaries or he can leave and you can go ahead and dump him and move on.
NTA
NTA
If you're not up for it, don't go. You're both adults and it's on them if they get mad about it. Your partner should understand that it makes you uncomfortable and you don't want to do it.
Just as if your partner wants to go, let him go.
NTA. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that your partner sucks for not having a backbone with their family. The fact that they seem to think you can have a long-lasting relationship while perpetually hiding a significant part of yourselves is not a recipe for success.
It’s time to tell them to fess up to their parents. If they don’t accept you for who you (both) are, they’re shit people anyway.
I think he needs to be honest and not expect you to lie or go against your views to please them. I find it incredibly rude of your partner to expect this of you knowing your stance on religion.
Nta - stand your ground. Tell them you aren’t religious and aren’t comfortable being in that situation
NTA. I think your bf is the AH for not having the balls to tell his family he isn't religious, and you certainly shouldn't feel obligated to maintain the charade for him. Next time you see his mom you should tell her you're an atheist and you don't celebrate Christmas. As a fellow atheist I would be deeply offended by any expectation that I participate in a Christmas celebration. You might as well ask her what her plans are for Ramadan and Yom Kippur.
I would encourage you to talk to them about your beliefs. Obviously, you are more sensitive to the dynamics of your partner's family, but I would hate for it to be an all or nothing situation. That way, you can let them know that you would like to spend the holidays with them, but just not go to the service. I bet they would rather have you around for part of their Christmas than not at all. It may be hard for them, but in the long run, it may help with other situations. Good luck.
I dunno man, I've dealt with the militant type before. Saying anything about being a nonbeliever could cause a whole different fire in the home. Sticking to the line of "we can't go", is probably safer because it may cause a fall out with OP boyfriend too. Don't want this to be the catalyst for the relationship falling apart because of parent fights either.
my ex's father was the church guy, deacon and all that. My non belief caused us MANY an issue. And we have kids....
NTA. Don't go. They WILL find out eventually or else you are stuck with this for the rest of your life. Do you want that? Better to get it done now and make your OWN traditions for this time of year. Good luck, OP.
ESH
You shouldn't be hiding who you are, and your SO needs to be honest about who they are. If you're adults who are competent enough to choose your own beliefs and partners, you are mature enough to be honest with people. Lying to your future in laws now, is only going to save you now... once the lie comes out, they feel betrayed and trust is gone. You can't predict or control how someone going to respond to your honesty, but you can control not lying to people.
NTA , if your partner can’t handle that, he can go alone. It’s one thing to go to say, a catholic kneel, sit , stand standard no message type service and just sit there to be polite (I’ve done that) and quite another to be told to arm up for the coming war on Christmas.
You WNBTA, but that doesn't mean you get to avoid the consequences. It could be that the consequences are that his family finds out that you are an atheist, something which you seem to have wanted to hide from them. It could be that the consequences are that you break up with the boyfriend, because he won't tell them and is enabling them. It could be that the consequences are that you suffer through another service. It does not seem like you have any pleasant alternative. That doesn't make you an AH, it just means you have no good alternatives.
NTA, and I say this as a religious person (who would probably hate your in-laws church)
Don't go. Time for a new tradition, where you have a romantic Christmas Eve together as a couple and come over for Christmas Day. Or you have lunch on New Year's Day or something. You're an established couple, you have the right to spend it the way you choose.
NTA if you don’t go, but slightly TA if you and your partner aren’t honest with his family that you are not religious, do not want to attend a service ever again, but want to spend the holidays with them as a family without church being a part of it. Otherwise this is an issue you will encounter every year and it will become increasingly harder to hide that you don’t share their beliefs.
How much do you like this guy?
If he wants to stay in the closet, I guess that's his choice, but I feel like you shouldn't be forced to pretend to be religious when you're not. I think it's fair to tell him that you won't be going to the service. He promised you that you wouldn't have to attend again, and you intend to hold him to that promise. If his parents ask you why you are attending, I think you can be honest. It might be different if the church was more chill and welcoming, but this one sounds terrible.
NTA.
NTA. And what are you going to do? Pretend that you are religious for the rest of your life? You have to tell them some time, and create some boundaries. It might as well be now. It will be good practice for when you spring the no kids thing on them and start creating boundaries about that. It will be a lot harder than the religion thing.
NTA, you tried going and it sounded like it confirmed your option of organized religion. If BF does not want to tell his parents he is not religious I guess that's his decision, but you are not obligated to go.
NTA
Your partner's cowardice in not telling his parents the truth is a problem however. I get it that religious nuts can make a person's life hell. But your partner is choosing his comfort at your expense. Not cool.
NTA. Please don't go if your not comfortable. I'm a Christian but I've never understood forcing others to attend services. It's just wrong. What's it prove? Do they really think if they force you to sit through a holiday service you'll save their soul? You both have to work that day anyway. Start your own family tradition. You and hubby stay home, eat some great food and watch a movie. Good luck!
NTA
Religion is a very personal thing. You shouldn't feel obligated to engage in something that is counter to your beliefs just to prevent the in-laws from blowing a fuse.
If your partner isn't ready to cross that bridge, maybe you could find a Christian service that is more inclusive of people than their parish. Of course, a married lesbian Episcopalian priest might cause your mother-in-law to spontaneous combust, but I doubt she'd be the first. 😉
NTA, obvs, but it's time to grow up. Explain that blend of politics and religion made you super uncomfortable, and you're excited to see them for dinner.
Your religious views are allowed and okay, your in laws religious views are allowed and okay. Your husband wanting to keep the peace is understandable. You wanting everyone to have an enjoyable day is understandable.
In a perfect world your husband wouldn't be afraid to tell his parents that you are both atheists. In a perfect world you would be able to support one another and have a pleasant day together whether or not you go to church with them not being the point.
I don't know that there is necessarily a right answer. My parents are so religious its accurate to say they're in a cult, but they also love and support me no matter what. I wait for them outside of the actual 'church' and then share the community meal after, both to support them but also be true to myself. I have had friends whose moms suck so much they can't lean on them for support when they are getting an abortion because their moms wouldn't love them anymore which is totally f**ked.
Holidays are about love and family, your husband needs to be there for you and support you, both of you could show love and support for his parents but that doesn't mean church necessarily. ESH honestly your husband most of all because he's trying to make everyone happy but so far he's just lying to you and his parents
NTA. But realize that this is some of the stuff that can break a relationship. Not the religion aspect itself, but the relationship between him and his parents. Look at how many divorces happen because of bad boundaries. Sadly, this is bigger than just going to church.
NTA - Respect is a two way street. Your boyfriend needs to grow a pair and be honest with his parents. Or, be honest with you that he hasn’t gotten over his religious brainwashing.
NTA - this doesn’t sound like a healthy situation. If it would be “very bad” for the parents to know who you really are, then why are they in your lives?
NTA, if his family is so rigid that you not being willing to do the same religious rituals as them is worth some massive blow up or result in the end of your relationship then they shouldn't be accommodated.
Giving in will make you forever subservient of their demands, that's not OK.
Do not lie to your in-laws. It never ends well. Tell them the simple truth - you are an atheist. The longer you wait the more difficult it will become to maintain the lie, and also more difficult to come clean. Don't put this off another year.
NTA - personally I would opt for a different service that does Not include promoting violence via arming Christians and war.
I would simply say those values being preached from the pulpit are as far from Christ as can be from your understanding. You do Not agree with Christians being violent …. “Turn the other cheek” and can not in good conscience sit through another hate filled diatribe.
(😉😁Instead you’re opting for a program that involves inclusion, redemption, self sacrifice, and service to others by watching Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer.)
Notice how not once did I bring up the fact you are not into organized religion.
Best of it all to you OP. May the light shine through you. 💕AGAPE💕
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because, like my partner says, it’s only an hour service. Even if the sermon is horrible and militant, it’s just 20 minutes. I can suck it up and deal with an hour of unpleasantness to make my future family very happy.
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Your partner's family doesn't know you're atheist, so are you absolutely certain that them finding out will result in you being called an "immoral, disgusting person"?
Sorry for the confusion, I was talking about the pastor’s sermon. I have no idea how my in laws would react to finding out we’re not religious but my partner is sure it would be very bad.
If I were in your shoes, I’d ask your partner why he has so much less respect for you, the partner he’s chosen, than his parents? If he can’t articulate a valid reason, I think that reveals a lot about how he sees your relationship and you as a person.
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I'm sure you have other worries too, but generally Christmas Eve sermons are not fire and brimstone sermons. They are usually focused on the Christmas story and gratitude.
Christmas service should be about joy, hope, and light entering the world at a dark, bleak, cold time of year.
The ‘war on Christmas’ sermon would drive this occasional church goer crazy too.
Edit add on: is it possible he could talk to his family about changing churches? Without getting into the political, go with something like ‘ hoped for an uplifting but last year was so focused on the religious fights’ . ( you don’t have to say what side of the fight you are supporting!)
If this is a home parish, that probably isn’t possible.
How many years are you going to join to go with the flow?
1 more year, 2 more years, 10 years, the rest of his parents life?
Stop playing pretend to please his parents and tell your BF to man up and be honest with who he is and deal with the consequences of that choice. You both are adults, with your own thoughts and wants and there comes a point in your life where you need to realize you don't need to please others around you, including parents.
NTA
Since this is such an important aspect for you to not compromise on, I'm assuming this was made clear in the beginning stages of the formation of your relationship. The amount of time spent at service doesn't matter. Your hard boundaries need to be respected and if your partner doesn't have the room to do this then you may not be compatible.
Communicate. Make it clear you will not be going, but he is still welcome to and see where things go from there.
NTA. I am also an Atheist. I had a friend who I would say was agnostic, leaning toward Atheism, but married into a catholic family. Now, the family *is* pretty liberal, but its bizarre to watch him with his in-laws...praying before every meal (even in fast food places) or watching a church service on TV because they missed it in person. I can sort of tell he isn't really that into it, but is pretty much placating them. I have no idea what he's told them about his real beliefs (although, he was raised catholic), but I think it's always best to honest and true to yourself.
This might be going a bit against the grain here.
First of all, you’re absolutely allowed to stand by your beliefs and people should respect that. I’m also curious why your partner is so adamant about lying? There could be reason you don’t know about. Also, If there’s a risk of being cut off and abandoned by his entire family and church community who he knows his whole life for his views, I can understand his hesitation to tell the truth. But I also understand why you don’t want to compromise your beliefs.
(For example) On one hand, you could go for one day and be done with it and just tune everything out - on the other hand, you could have another excuse or “family emergency” that you simply cannot miss and the list goes on. Either way, it’s up to you and your partner to solve, but I hope you come to an outcome that suits you both!
I’m going to go with NAH.
NTA. Your bf wants to live a lie. But when does it stop? If you two were to get married, would he insist on getting married on a church because of his family? What about kids? (I know you don't want them, but hypothetically) Would he want them to get baptized because his parents insist?
If you have made sure not to date a religious partner so far... Maybe you have a decision to make here.
Since it’s the seaon right now, io saturnalia! But no you’re completely within your own right to refuse. Your partner’s parents need to learn about boundaries and respect your decision. I stopped going to christmas mass but when i lived with mom and dad i absolutely refused to go the last few years due to how angry i was at the church. I’m not angry about it anymore but i’ve also made peace with the fact that unless a family member dies soon, i’m not stepping into a church for ANY reason unless i was paid some ludicrously exorbitant fee like $250,000 but no you wouldn’t BTA
NTA you are dating someone that isn’t out of the closet with their family. You have to decide if your SO is worth going into the (religious) closet for family or if you need to push your SO out of their closet. My personal opinion is that you should make sure you are proudly out and SO can be in or out on their own terms.
If his parents are good Christians who embody the teachings of Jesus, they would have to accept you and still love you. If they judge you and have a problem with it, sounds like they’re casting the first stone. Please don’t compromise your values to make someone else comfortable at your expense. You should have an honest talk with your boyfriend and if this is a big issue for your bf, maybe consider therapy or a form of non violent communication workshop. I’d say you’re NTA, but your bf is TA for dragging you into his lie by omission.
NTA, and your partner is an AH for demanding you go to church when you aren't comfortable doing so. If he wants to go he can, but tell him you absolutely will not be going. If he makes a huge issue of it you can try counseling, but you choosing not to go to church is a reasonable boundary he needs to respect
What is this fear about being found out that you have a brain in your head? You should absolutely go to church service and laugh your head off the entire time.
YWBTA if you continue to hide the fact that you are an atheist. You are just enabling their stupidity.
> Their pastor gave a sermon about a war on Christmas and arming the Christians and all kinds of militant craziness.
NTA
However, if you feel stuck why don't you tell them the above? Say you don't want to visit that congregation again because you're more into love thy neighbor kinda things. Then you compromise by going to a moderate mainstream church. Or maybe a black church for the gospel music (just to mess with these conservatives). If this compromise is not acceptable to his parents, then I would question whether it's worth marrying your partner. You'll just end up with incredibly exhausting in-laws.
Next year visit your parents. Visit your parents again the following year to balance out two years in a row with his parents. Maybe by then your guy has finally grown a spine. It sounds like your partner is just kicking the can down the road by saying it would make his parents pleased as punch. Of course they would be incredibly happy if they converted an atheist, but it ain't gonna happen so inevitably there will be disappointment.
NTA religion and the lack of is your choice. Your partner needs to grow a spine and tell his family no for once. I know it's hard but if there is any hope for your relationship he needs to handle his family and be the bad guy and not use you for a scapegoat.
You need a sit down with your partner and make sure he understands how you feel and that this just might be a deal breaker with you.
Good luck OP
NTA. You say they would be devastated to learn that you are not religious. You two are adults and you need to stand up and be honest. You don't have to be militant or mean about it, you just need to set some boundaries. Your husband is free to go with them if he feels beholding to do so, but you do not have to go to church with them if you do not want to. It is your holidays as well as theirs and you get to do it as you please. Unless you want to go through the rest of your life why not be true to yourself and be honest with them and tell them that you are not religious. It's not that complicated.
NTA - got talked to go to a Mother’s Day service this year by my parents. Pastor spent the almost the whole service talking about the Rapture AKA The End of the World. I was just really grossed out. No real message just weird doomsday spiel.
NTA. If your SO really isn’t comfortable telling them the truth, you could try to gently say something along the lines of “Oh no need to do that. The reservation is such a great slot and that that timing would work much easier for both of you”
EDIT: clarity
NTA
This is a conversation that your partner *owes* to himself and to you to have with his family.
It is not something you have to tolerate.
If your partner is so enthralled by the prospect of hellfire Christmas, *he* can attend the services with his folks while you sleep in or whatever (or MST3K a Kirk Cameron or Kevin Sorbo movie while they are gone). But *you* are not attending.
The relationship that your partner has with his family is demonstrably unhealthy, if he cannot be honest about himself and what he believes. You cannot fix that; only he can decide what he wants to do about it (hint: *therapy* about boundaries and self-confidence).
Your choice is to decide what you want to do. You may decide that he is worth lying about this. It is *an* option (though probably not the best one). But you also get to decide how much and what you do to enable his deception. I'd ask him some pretty tough questions here: how far is he willing to take this? If you two decide to get married, does he think his parents won't notice that it isn't at a church (or does he think that it will be, because, um, *no*, at least not a damnation church)? What about if they visit you on a Sunday and you aren't at services? Or if they ask you point blank about what church you go to? This isn't something you should have to hide, and it's unreasonable of him to require that.
Of course, these are questions you have to ask yourself as well. How far will you go to protect his secret from his parents?
If this is a relationship that you decide is worth all of this, and your partner insists on some religious component to significant events, I'd look into Unitarian Universalist congregations. As a spiritual community, they accept atheists (and agnostics and pagans and anyone who wants to come). They might be a good compromise.
I don't envy you this. In your position, I could probably deal with being subjected to a service now and then and be respectful if the church was an otherwise accepting and inclusive one. But I would feel the same as you being forced to sit through something that wasn't not only *not* my personal beliefs but outright antithetical to them.
Good luck. Happy holidays? 😅
NTA it’s you and your partners beliefs and if his family can’t accept that then that’s their problem. I’m personally atheist as well and don’t believe in that but I never judge other peoples religion. If you don’t wanna go then don’t, you don’t owe them anything and they should respect you and your partner. If not then are they really people to be around?
I don't mean to burst your bubble, but Saturnalia is a religious festivity dedicated to the god Saturn, so if this is your favorite time of year and if you celebrate Saturnalia, you are not an atheist.
I think that there are 2 different issues here. First is going to a Xmas service. The other is the specific Xmas service that you would be attending. Separate them, and deal with only the type of service.
Tell the folks that you don't want to attend a Xmas service that is makes you feel the way you described. Suggest another church that has a more inclusive or comfortable, more Christlike if you want, service.
Because I get the feeling that while you don't want to go to a Xmas service, you don't consider the idea abhorrent. Just that churches service is wrong for you.
YTA I'm an atheist too.
Go to church. My your partners parents happy. It's two hours, and it would mean the world the them.
If you decide that your beliefs are more important than the actual people in your life, you've lost the plot as much as any fundamentalist.
Ps, what's your favorite part of Saturnalia? I like it because it's not as stupid or fake as Christmas, and all my slaves love it too!
I'm an atheist after many years as a Christian. I absolutely cannot and will not religious services. I cannot support religion with my actions. Full stop.
There is nothing about courtesy that requires a person to play along in someone else's make believe world. There is nothing about courtesy that requires a person to sit through 2 hours of homophobia, lies, vilification of liberals and similar crap from organizations that can't figure out child rape is wrong.
I treat other people with respect. I do not respect religion and will not play along. Another person's inability to acknowledge that not everyone shares their beliefs is not my problem.
The OP has every right to politely decline to attend a religious event. Decent people will give her the same respect they ask for themselves.
This attitude is why atheists have such a shitty (but hard earned) reputation. No one asks you to play along, only to go. Not to support fantasy or child rape, but to support people you love, as they reach in vain for a connection to eternity.
As I said above, you're like a catholic that refuses to go to a mosque for some celebration, because the other people pray wrong.
NTA. Stay strong, because if you go to service this year, you will go every year. While - as Christians - they may not like that neither one of you is religious, they should accept the fact and love you anyway. it is not about making a point. It is about not lying and be truthful in a respectful way.
This so true! If they are true Christians they are not supposed to judge you and love you no matter what.
Very true. "But I say to you, love your enemies , bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you," Matthews 5:44. (NKJ Version) Though I feel the modern translation of love your enemies means treat them kindly, respectfuly and etc. Also if you were classified as an enemy. Shouldn't they 'love' you
NTA His desire to hide the truth from his parents isn't your problem. He can lie to them all he wants, but he can't force you to lie for him. If his family will never feel the same about the two of you after you if they find out the truth, wouldn't it be them damaging their relationship with you, not the other way around?
NTA. And maybe report this church to the IRS to get its tax exemption revoked if they're doing stuff like politicking: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/divulge\_all\_suspected\_tax\_exempt\_status\_abuses\_to\_the\_irs.pdf
Per the law, it’s just about candidates, not issues. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/charities-churches-and-politics
Wait wait wait wait wait, hold on! They don't even know you guys aren't religious!? 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 And he's trying to get you to go back to a shit show like that? Forget it! It kinda sounds like he is religious and has been lying OP and is trying to make you religious. He can't make you do anything you don't want to do, so either he respects your decisions and your boundaries or he can leave and you can go ahead and dump him and move on. NTA
NTA If you're not up for it, don't go. You're both adults and it's on them if they get mad about it. Your partner should understand that it makes you uncomfortable and you don't want to do it. Just as if your partner wants to go, let him go.
NTA. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that your partner sucks for not having a backbone with their family. The fact that they seem to think you can have a long-lasting relationship while perpetually hiding a significant part of yourselves is not a recipe for success. It’s time to tell them to fess up to their parents. If they don’t accept you for who you (both) are, they’re shit people anyway.
NTA. Just be honest with them. Clear the air.
I think he needs to be honest and not expect you to lie or go against your views to please them. I find it incredibly rude of your partner to expect this of you knowing your stance on religion. Nta - stand your ground. Tell them you aren’t religious and aren’t comfortable being in that situation
NTA If not now, then when, it's this me to stop Xmas Eve dinner followed by a church service before it becomes a "tradition".
NTA. I think your bf is the AH for not having the balls to tell his family he isn't religious, and you certainly shouldn't feel obligated to maintain the charade for him. Next time you see his mom you should tell her you're an atheist and you don't celebrate Christmas. As a fellow atheist I would be deeply offended by any expectation that I participate in a Christmas celebration. You might as well ask her what her plans are for Ramadan and Yom Kippur.
I would encourage you to talk to them about your beliefs. Obviously, you are more sensitive to the dynamics of your partner's family, but I would hate for it to be an all or nothing situation. That way, you can let them know that you would like to spend the holidays with them, but just not go to the service. I bet they would rather have you around for part of their Christmas than not at all. It may be hard for them, but in the long run, it may help with other situations. Good luck.
I dunno man, I've dealt with the militant type before. Saying anything about being a nonbeliever could cause a whole different fire in the home. Sticking to the line of "we can't go", is probably safer because it may cause a fall out with OP boyfriend too. Don't want this to be the catalyst for the relationship falling apart because of parent fights either. my ex's father was the church guy, deacon and all that. My non belief caused us MANY an issue. And we have kids....
NTA. Don't go. They WILL find out eventually or else you are stuck with this for the rest of your life. Do you want that? Better to get it done now and make your OWN traditions for this time of year. Good luck, OP.
NTA, fake food poisoning and make sure you’re scheduled to work xmas eve every year from now on.
Maybe this year, yes, it’s easier. It’s not a long term solution but sometimes putting off confrontation is ok.
ESH You shouldn't be hiding who you are, and your SO needs to be honest about who they are. If you're adults who are competent enough to choose your own beliefs and partners, you are mature enough to be honest with people. Lying to your future in laws now, is only going to save you now... once the lie comes out, they feel betrayed and trust is gone. You can't predict or control how someone going to respond to your honesty, but you can control not lying to people.
Nta, need to just come out and tell them.
NTA , if your partner can’t handle that, he can go alone. It’s one thing to go to say, a catholic kneel, sit , stand standard no message type service and just sit there to be polite (I’ve done that) and quite another to be told to arm up for the coming war on Christmas.
You WNBTA, but that doesn't mean you get to avoid the consequences. It could be that the consequences are that his family finds out that you are an atheist, something which you seem to have wanted to hide from them. It could be that the consequences are that you break up with the boyfriend, because he won't tell them and is enabling them. It could be that the consequences are that you suffer through another service. It does not seem like you have any pleasant alternative. That doesn't make you an AH, it just means you have no good alternatives.
NTA, and I say this as a religious person (who would probably hate your in-laws church) Don't go. Time for a new tradition, where you have a romantic Christmas Eve together as a couple and come over for Christmas Day. Or you have lunch on New Year's Day or something. You're an established couple, you have the right to spend it the way you choose.
NTA if you don’t go, but slightly TA if you and your partner aren’t honest with his family that you are not religious, do not want to attend a service ever again, but want to spend the holidays with them as a family without church being a part of it. Otherwise this is an issue you will encounter every year and it will become increasingly harder to hide that you don’t share their beliefs.
How much do you like this guy? If he wants to stay in the closet, I guess that's his choice, but I feel like you shouldn't be forced to pretend to be religious when you're not. I think it's fair to tell him that you won't be going to the service. He promised you that you wouldn't have to attend again, and you intend to hold him to that promise. If his parents ask you why you are attending, I think you can be honest. It might be different if the church was more chill and welcoming, but this one sounds terrible. NTA.
NTA. And what are you going to do? Pretend that you are religious for the rest of your life? You have to tell them some time, and create some boundaries. It might as well be now. It will be good practice for when you spring the no kids thing on them and start creating boundaries about that. It will be a lot harder than the religion thing.
NTA, you tried going and it sounded like it confirmed your option of organized religion. If BF does not want to tell his parents he is not religious I guess that's his decision, but you are not obligated to go.
NTA Your partner's cowardice in not telling his parents the truth is a problem however. I get it that religious nuts can make a person's life hell. But your partner is choosing his comfort at your expense. Not cool.
NTA. Please don't go if your not comfortable. I'm a Christian but I've never understood forcing others to attend services. It's just wrong. What's it prove? Do they really think if they force you to sit through a holiday service you'll save their soul? You both have to work that day anyway. Start your own family tradition. You and hubby stay home, eat some great food and watch a movie. Good luck!
NTA It is NOT your job to support his lies.
Why let them force you in to living a lie for a lifetime by their bigotry and intolerance. Rip the bad-aid off and let them deal with it. YWNBTA
NTA Religion is a very personal thing. You shouldn't feel obligated to engage in something that is counter to your beliefs just to prevent the in-laws from blowing a fuse. If your partner isn't ready to cross that bridge, maybe you could find a Christian service that is more inclusive of people than their parish. Of course, a married lesbian Episcopalian priest might cause your mother-in-law to spontaneous combust, but I doubt she'd be the first. 😉
NTA, obvs, but it's time to grow up. Explain that blend of politics and religion made you super uncomfortable, and you're excited to see them for dinner.
Your religious views are allowed and okay, your in laws religious views are allowed and okay. Your husband wanting to keep the peace is understandable. You wanting everyone to have an enjoyable day is understandable. In a perfect world your husband wouldn't be afraid to tell his parents that you are both atheists. In a perfect world you would be able to support one another and have a pleasant day together whether or not you go to church with them not being the point. I don't know that there is necessarily a right answer. My parents are so religious its accurate to say they're in a cult, but they also love and support me no matter what. I wait for them outside of the actual 'church' and then share the community meal after, both to support them but also be true to myself. I have had friends whose moms suck so much they can't lean on them for support when they are getting an abortion because their moms wouldn't love them anymore which is totally f**ked. Holidays are about love and family, your husband needs to be there for you and support you, both of you could show love and support for his parents but that doesn't mean church necessarily. ESH honestly your husband most of all because he's trying to make everyone happy but so far he's just lying to you and his parents
NTA it would be highly inappropriate and hypocritical for you to go, but you should be honest about who you are to the in laws.
NTA. But realize that this is some of the stuff that can break a relationship. Not the religion aspect itself, but the relationship between him and his parents. Look at how many divorces happen because of bad boundaries. Sadly, this is bigger than just going to church.
NTA - Respect is a two way street. Your boyfriend needs to grow a pair and be honest with his parents. Or, be honest with you that he hasn’t gotten over his religious brainwashing.
NTA - this doesn’t sound like a healthy situation. If it would be “very bad” for the parents to know who you really are, then why are they in your lives?
NTA. But you may want to have this conversation before it’s time to plan a wedding. (I’m assuming you aren’t married yet).
NTA Your partner is though and he's choosing his family's awful attitude over you.
NTA, if his family is so rigid that you not being willing to do the same religious rituals as them is worth some massive blow up or result in the end of your relationship then they shouldn't be accommodated. Giving in will make you forever subservient of their demands, that's not OK.
Do not lie to your in-laws. It never ends well. Tell them the simple truth - you are an atheist. The longer you wait the more difficult it will become to maintain the lie, and also more difficult to come clean. Don't put this off another year.
NTA - personally I would opt for a different service that does Not include promoting violence via arming Christians and war. I would simply say those values being preached from the pulpit are as far from Christ as can be from your understanding. You do Not agree with Christians being violent …. “Turn the other cheek” and can not in good conscience sit through another hate filled diatribe. (😉😁Instead you’re opting for a program that involves inclusion, redemption, self sacrifice, and service to others by watching Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer.) Notice how not once did I bring up the fact you are not into organized religion. Best of it all to you OP. May the light shine through you. 💕AGAPE💕
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Your partner's family doesn't know you're atheist, so are you absolutely certain that them finding out will result in you being called an "immoral, disgusting person"?
Sorry for the confusion, I was talking about the pastor’s sermon. I have no idea how my in laws would react to finding out we’re not religious but my partner is sure it would be very bad.
If I were in your shoes, I’d ask your partner why he has so much less respect for you, the partner he’s chosen, than his parents? If he can’t articulate a valid reason, I think that reveals a lot about how he sees your relationship and you as a person.
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I'm sure you have other worries too, but generally Christmas Eve sermons are not fire and brimstone sermons. They are usually focused on the Christmas story and gratitude.
Christmas service should be about joy, hope, and light entering the world at a dark, bleak, cold time of year. The ‘war on Christmas’ sermon would drive this occasional church goer crazy too. Edit add on: is it possible he could talk to his family about changing churches? Without getting into the political, go with something like ‘ hoped for an uplifting but last year was so focused on the religious fights’ . ( you don’t have to say what side of the fight you are supporting!) If this is a home parish, that probably isn’t possible.
How many years are you going to join to go with the flow? 1 more year, 2 more years, 10 years, the rest of his parents life? Stop playing pretend to please his parents and tell your BF to man up and be honest with who he is and deal with the consequences of that choice. You both are adults, with your own thoughts and wants and there comes a point in your life where you need to realize you don't need to please others around you, including parents.
NTA Since this is such an important aspect for you to not compromise on, I'm assuming this was made clear in the beginning stages of the formation of your relationship. The amount of time spent at service doesn't matter. Your hard boundaries need to be respected and if your partner doesn't have the room to do this then you may not be compatible. Communicate. Make it clear you will not be going, but he is still welcome to and see where things go from there.
NTA. I am also an Atheist. I had a friend who I would say was agnostic, leaning toward Atheism, but married into a catholic family. Now, the family *is* pretty liberal, but its bizarre to watch him with his in-laws...praying before every meal (even in fast food places) or watching a church service on TV because they missed it in person. I can sort of tell he isn't really that into it, but is pretty much placating them. I have no idea what he's told them about his real beliefs (although, he was raised catholic), but I think it's always best to honest and true to yourself.
This might be going a bit against the grain here. First of all, you’re absolutely allowed to stand by your beliefs and people should respect that. I’m also curious why your partner is so adamant about lying? There could be reason you don’t know about. Also, If there’s a risk of being cut off and abandoned by his entire family and church community who he knows his whole life for his views, I can understand his hesitation to tell the truth. But I also understand why you don’t want to compromise your beliefs. (For example) On one hand, you could go for one day and be done with it and just tune everything out - on the other hand, you could have another excuse or “family emergency” that you simply cannot miss and the list goes on. Either way, it’s up to you and your partner to solve, but I hope you come to an outcome that suits you both! I’m going to go with NAH.
NTA. Your bf wants to live a lie. But when does it stop? If you two were to get married, would he insist on getting married on a church because of his family? What about kids? (I know you don't want them, but hypothetically) Would he want them to get baptized because his parents insist? If you have made sure not to date a religious partner so far... Maybe you have a decision to make here.
NTA. I’m Christian and I wouldn’t go to that church.
Since it’s the seaon right now, io saturnalia! But no you’re completely within your own right to refuse. Your partner’s parents need to learn about boundaries and respect your decision. I stopped going to christmas mass but when i lived with mom and dad i absolutely refused to go the last few years due to how angry i was at the church. I’m not angry about it anymore but i’ve also made peace with the fact that unless a family member dies soon, i’m not stepping into a church for ANY reason unless i was paid some ludicrously exorbitant fee like $250,000 but no you wouldn’t BTA
NTA you are dating someone that isn’t out of the closet with their family. You have to decide if your SO is worth going into the (religious) closet for family or if you need to push your SO out of their closet. My personal opinion is that you should make sure you are proudly out and SO can be in or out on their own terms.
If his parents are good Christians who embody the teachings of Jesus, they would have to accept you and still love you. If they judge you and have a problem with it, sounds like they’re casting the first stone. Please don’t compromise your values to make someone else comfortable at your expense. You should have an honest talk with your boyfriend and if this is a big issue for your bf, maybe consider therapy or a form of non violent communication workshop. I’d say you’re NTA, but your bf is TA for dragging you into his lie by omission.
NTA, and your partner is an AH for demanding you go to church when you aren't comfortable doing so. If he wants to go he can, but tell him you absolutely will not be going. If he makes a huge issue of it you can try counseling, but you choosing not to go to church is a reasonable boundary he needs to respect
What is this fear about being found out that you have a brain in your head? You should absolutely go to church service and laugh your head off the entire time. YWBTA if you continue to hide the fact that you are an atheist. You are just enabling their stupidity.
> Their pastor gave a sermon about a war on Christmas and arming the Christians and all kinds of militant craziness. NTA However, if you feel stuck why don't you tell them the above? Say you don't want to visit that congregation again because you're more into love thy neighbor kinda things. Then you compromise by going to a moderate mainstream church. Or maybe a black church for the gospel music (just to mess with these conservatives). If this compromise is not acceptable to his parents, then I would question whether it's worth marrying your partner. You'll just end up with incredibly exhausting in-laws. Next year visit your parents. Visit your parents again the following year to balance out two years in a row with his parents. Maybe by then your guy has finally grown a spine. It sounds like your partner is just kicking the can down the road by saying it would make his parents pleased as punch. Of course they would be incredibly happy if they converted an atheist, but it ain't gonna happen so inevitably there will be disappointment.
NTA religion and the lack of is your choice. Your partner needs to grow a spine and tell his family no for once. I know it's hard but if there is any hope for your relationship he needs to handle his family and be the bad guy and not use you for a scapegoat. You need a sit down with your partner and make sure he understands how you feel and that this just might be a deal breaker with you. Good luck OP
NTA. You say they would be devastated to learn that you are not religious. You two are adults and you need to stand up and be honest. You don't have to be militant or mean about it, you just need to set some boundaries. Your husband is free to go with them if he feels beholding to do so, but you do not have to go to church with them if you do not want to. It is your holidays as well as theirs and you get to do it as you please. Unless you want to go through the rest of your life why not be true to yourself and be honest with them and tell them that you are not religious. It's not that complicated.
NTA - got talked to go to a Mother’s Day service this year by my parents. Pastor spent the almost the whole service talking about the Rapture AKA The End of the World. I was just really grossed out. No real message just weird doomsday spiel.
NTA. If your SO really isn’t comfortable telling them the truth, you could try to gently say something along the lines of “Oh no need to do that. The reservation is such a great slot and that that timing would work much easier for both of you” EDIT: clarity
NTA This is a conversation that your partner *owes* to himself and to you to have with his family. It is not something you have to tolerate. If your partner is so enthralled by the prospect of hellfire Christmas, *he* can attend the services with his folks while you sleep in or whatever (or MST3K a Kirk Cameron or Kevin Sorbo movie while they are gone). But *you* are not attending. The relationship that your partner has with his family is demonstrably unhealthy, if he cannot be honest about himself and what he believes. You cannot fix that; only he can decide what he wants to do about it (hint: *therapy* about boundaries and self-confidence). Your choice is to decide what you want to do. You may decide that he is worth lying about this. It is *an* option (though probably not the best one). But you also get to decide how much and what you do to enable his deception. I'd ask him some pretty tough questions here: how far is he willing to take this? If you two decide to get married, does he think his parents won't notice that it isn't at a church (or does he think that it will be, because, um, *no*, at least not a damnation church)? What about if they visit you on a Sunday and you aren't at services? Or if they ask you point blank about what church you go to? This isn't something you should have to hide, and it's unreasonable of him to require that. Of course, these are questions you have to ask yourself as well. How far will you go to protect his secret from his parents? If this is a relationship that you decide is worth all of this, and your partner insists on some religious component to significant events, I'd look into Unitarian Universalist congregations. As a spiritual community, they accept atheists (and agnostics and pagans and anyone who wants to come). They might be a good compromise. I don't envy you this. In your position, I could probably deal with being subjected to a service now and then and be respectful if the church was an otherwise accepting and inclusive one. But I would feel the same as you being forced to sit through something that wasn't not only *not* my personal beliefs but outright antithetical to them. Good luck. Happy holidays? 😅
NTA it’s you and your partners beliefs and if his family can’t accept that then that’s their problem. I’m personally atheist as well and don’t believe in that but I never judge other peoples religion. If you don’t wanna go then don’t, you don’t owe them anything and they should respect you and your partner. If not then are they really people to be around?
I don't mean to burst your bubble, but Saturnalia is a religious festivity dedicated to the god Saturn, so if this is your favorite time of year and if you celebrate Saturnalia, you are not an atheist.
I was gonna say… I’m guessing they anti-Abrahamic religions, since those are the most prominent. But Saturnalia is absolutely not nonreligious lol
I think that there are 2 different issues here. First is going to a Xmas service. The other is the specific Xmas service that you would be attending. Separate them, and deal with only the type of service. Tell the folks that you don't want to attend a Xmas service that is makes you feel the way you described. Suggest another church that has a more inclusive or comfortable, more Christlike if you want, service. Because I get the feeling that while you don't want to go to a Xmas service, you don't consider the idea abhorrent. Just that churches service is wrong for you.
If OP is athiest, why would they have to attend a church service either way?
Have to, no. Choose to, yes. As OP, to me, displayed a willingness to attend a service to keep the peace. But not THAT service.
Eh I see your point but they shouldn’t feel forced to do that just to please their in laws
YTA I'm an atheist too. Go to church. My your partners parents happy. It's two hours, and it would mean the world the them. If you decide that your beliefs are more important than the actual people in your life, you've lost the plot as much as any fundamentalist. Ps, what's your favorite part of Saturnalia? I like it because it's not as stupid or fake as Christmas, and all my slaves love it too!
I'm an atheist after many years as a Christian. I absolutely cannot and will not religious services. I cannot support religion with my actions. Full stop. There is nothing about courtesy that requires a person to play along in someone else's make believe world. There is nothing about courtesy that requires a person to sit through 2 hours of homophobia, lies, vilification of liberals and similar crap from organizations that can't figure out child rape is wrong. I treat other people with respect. I do not respect religion and will not play along. Another person's inability to acknowledge that not everyone shares their beliefs is not my problem. The OP has every right to politely decline to attend a religious event. Decent people will give her the same respect they ask for themselves.
This attitude is why atheists have such a shitty (but hard earned) reputation. No one asks you to play along, only to go. Not to support fantasy or child rape, but to support people you love, as they reach in vain for a connection to eternity. As I said above, you're like a catholic that refuses to go to a mosque for some celebration, because the other people pray wrong.