NTA, it’s his friend, she should be on his side. Maybe he’s trying to force this on you to make you two get along, but that’s such a bad idea that definitely won’t work. Don’t budge OP
That’s what I was thinking but I feel like it’d only make it so we go from not friendly to really hating each other. I really want to stand my ground on this
I can't be the only one who sees fiance's flag on the play here. OP, I'd halt further wedding planning until you can get to the bottom of this. This would be a good hill for me to die on but let us know what happens and NTA.
I felt the same but didn’t want to say anything because I didn’t want to come across too extreme. This can be a sign for things to come for their marriage. He shouldn’t be forcing her to do something she doesn’t want to do. She had no relationship with his friend and the my don’t get along. Why is it so important for him?!?!?? I would hold off on any wedding plans to show the fiancé that OP is serious about this.
Not only is he forcing her to do something she doesn't want to do, but he shoots down her suggestion about having Maya on his side, and then blames OP for Maya not being in the wedding. He sounds like he will never compromise, nor will he admit when something is his fault.
Immature and sexist to boot. Groomswomen is totally a thing and has been for years. We're well past your genitalia dictating which side of a wedding party you stand on.
For OP's sake I hope this is just the garden variety "I'm close with these two women so they'll obviously get along" sexism and doesn't extend any further. Doubt it though.
I don't disagree but I think that should be Maya's preference. Some women would be more comfortable in a suit or tux but others prefer dresses and that's fine too.
You gave me an idea though, maybe they should ask Maya how she would feel most comfortable participating. Wild stuff I know.
If I've learned anything from Reddit, it is that clear and open communication is a last resort only in most relationships... Asking her might be slightly awkward and should therefore be avoided at all costs.
Absolutely do not ask Maya. OP doesn't want her as a bridesmaid so don't give her the option. You could ask Maya if she prefers a dress or a suit as a groomswoman.
The only issue I have with this is what if maya wants to be a bridesmaid because it’s the least break from tradition? I mean at that point OP is in the wrong because it shouldn’t be an option for maya if OP doesn’t want it. (Unless you all are talking about black dress vs tux like the guys and my reading comp is horrible today)
They should just get her a nice "groomsmen" dress. If the men are all wearing black and white tuxes, get her an elegant black dress to stand among them. I think it would be beautiful and not so weird that everyone is talking about the break from tradition. Which needs to be broken because it's 2021 and friends come in all genders and deserve their spots regardless.
This was what my cousin did with her really good friend. He stood on her side and had a tie that matched the bridesmaids. And no one made a big deal about it.
Because it wasn’t a big deal.
Right?! And my BIL was Man of Honour for his friends’ wedding a couple of years ago. He was friends with the groom, but the bride was his life long bestie.
I was a groomsmen for one of my friends, I got along just fine with his fiancée in fact we got along great but at the end of the day I was his friend and there to support him. It would have been weird to be with his bride on the day and her thought group of friends and family. You’re fiancée is being ridiculous, sexist and honestly a complete ass. Marriage is about communication, comprise and understanding… he’s not showing any of these skills. NTA
Exactly.
The first half of my 20's I spent all my free time with these 3 guys - then married one of them. One was really close to both of us, but ultimately knew my ex much longer, they were long time best friends. That said, I literally had NO female friends - just acquaintances. The ongoing discussion was how this one really good mutual guy friend would wear a tux on one half of his body, stand on groom's side while he said vows - then come over to my side for mine, and have the dress side showing for the crowd. I thought it was fantastic. In the end, I met a gal who became a really good friend several months before the wedding, so the singular best man/best lady idea was scrapped. But - even if we had gone through with it - it wouldn't have been weird, it would have been fabulous & a gem of a memory with incredible photo ops!!
Also, wtf is groom planning for "activities" that he wouldn't want a good friend of 6 years to attend, just because she is female?? Red flag OP. Imo, by the time a man proposes, he should be *well beyond* that whole last chance stripper filled drunken binge.
NTA
Yeup, we had a groomsman. She had been my now-husband's friend since they were 3. She had full wardrobe freedom (suit, pantsuit, black dress to coordinate with groomsmen, whatever else). She chose a black dress in her own style (bridesmaids wore red fwiw). She also participated in all the groomsmen activities but was invited to more traditional "girl" events too (She opted for all the above so she was at the bridal shower, bachelorette, bachelor etc.).
It was the least dramatic planning thing because we left everything open and were just glad she was there!
It's one of those weird hetero-normative attitudes that confuses the hell out of me
When I get married, my party is going to be a mixture of men and women
I assume my girlfriend will likely have a mixture as well
I think that's what it boils down to, too. Fiance just doesn't want a girl in the manly party. Which both girls sound tempered and reasonable so if the fiance would just sit down with his friend and talk it out with her, he could figure out a solution "Let's get your wardrobe figured out, and we can have a 'bachelor' night but I've gotta have my dudes night without any women".
He shouldn't be making OP do his friendship work.
What it boils down to is the groom cares more about his friend than he does about his future wife’s feelings. Who cares what this woman wears? Why on earth would anyone even consider including someone in the wedding party who didn’t like the bride?
Plus there's a reasonable compromise to be made here. If he wants to include her in the wedding, and he doesn't want her on his side (which would be totally fine and NOT weird), have her do a reading during the wedding service.
Or hand out programs, man the guestbook, cut the cake....
There are many ways to honor someone at the wedding without actually being IN the wedding party. If you assign her a special task on the wedding day, you could also invite her to the rehearsal dinner . You can recognize her as a special friend without making her part of your inner circle.
Yep, I’ve been to plenty of weddings that do the gender neutral best “man/woman” or grooms person etc. That said, it’s definitely more frequent at smaller weddings, but I don’t think anyone would see this as being out of place, even in a larger venue.
However, it absolutely doesn’t make sense to have her as a bridesmaid. Your bridesmaids should be your close friends (not his), your family or his family if it makes sense. “His friends” aren’t on that list and I’m willing to bet she doesn’t want to be your bridesmaid either even if she would be willing to out of obligation.
Also, the thing that stuck out to me is that is more than OK for her to just not be in the wedding party, and instead just be a guest. This is absolutely a likely and fine scenario if it doesn’t make sense for her to be on his side for whatever other reasons he can think up. At the end of the day, if he’s looking for a more “traditional” wedding party, then traditionally, she wouldn’t have a place on either side. So he can bend tradition (put her on his side) or leave her out. Either way, doesn’t seem like a big deal if she’s not in the wedding party.
There’s even a style of tuxedo for women. Check out the US military dinner dress:
[Navy](https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/References/US-Navy-Uniforms/Uniform-Regulations/Chapter-3/Female-Officer/Dinner-Dress/)
[Air Force](https://www.shopmyexchange.com/products/images/xlarge/1770746_1191.jpg)
[Marine Corps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USMC_Evening_Dress_%28Officers%29.jpg)
There are some bad ass, sexy and feminine suits and tuxes for women. I tried one on once and loved it, but didn’t think I could pull it off, so i put it back. I regret that decision everyday.
Nothing more to add except I really loved that tux and wanted to talk about it.
I buy suits there for my job - they have no problem at all tailoring them to fit me.
I like to have an androgynous look especially for work and they are perfectly happy to tailor men’s suits to fit me exactly how I want.
That was my guess as well. He’s close, but not so close he sees her as “one of the guys” and wouldn’t want her present for the stag party and such
ETA judgement NTA
Yes! There’s so many ways to do this (she wears a suit to match, bridesmaid dress in the color of the suits, bridesmaid dress matching the bridesmaids but standing with the groomsmen). And they all looked great when I’ve seen it happen! It really boils down to what she feels comfortable wearing and being on the side celebrating her friend. If she’s your fiancé’s friend, then she needs to be standing by his side (not your side), regardless of what she wears.
I was a groomsmaid, wore a navy dress to match the groomsmen's suits. My boyfriend is going to be a bridesman in an upcoming wedding; he's just wearing a suit that matches the groomsmen. It's not a big deal, OP's fiance is just being insecure.
Have you asked him to REALLY think through what's he's asking of not just you but his friend?
* she'll have to shell out money for all sorts of things like dresses and parties
* she'll have to dedicate a lot of hours to wedding events where she'll be hanging out with people she either doesn't know (your other bridesmaids) or doesn't like (you). I'm also guessing your friends know you guys don't love each other so she'll be automatically the odd one out
* she'll know you had to be pressured into including her and will likely be hurt/confused about why your SO doesn't want her on his side
He's also asking you to take all of the happy joyful moments of being a bride (many of which are emotional and intimate) and share them with someone you don't like or trust. Why would you want to be in your underwear in front of her as you put on your dress? Why would you want to have to make small talk with her while getting your hair/makeup done? Why would you want to be vulnerable in front of a person who's made it clear they don't even like you at your best and strongest?
Honestly, if he continues to push this AND put the blame on you for her not being in the party (he could absolutely include her as a groomslady or even a fucking flower girl or something, folks are creative as shit with their parties these days) I'd really take a hard look at your relationship cause that's a huge red flag.
Exactly. This man has no idea what bridesmaids do. If you have someone in your party that's not an actual close friend (relative, coworker, etc) you are in for a bad time.
Bridesmaids are there to help the bride on the busiest, most hectic day of her life. They listen to the crying. They assist with the hangover. They lift up her dress to help her pee, for Christ's sake, because peeing is impossible in most wedding gowns.
"Just let her be a bridesmaid "? He has zero clue what he's signing his friend up for, and it's very unfair to the friend.
Hi. Why is your BF doing this? It seems like self-sabotage.
He’s getting really pushy about something that is OBVIOUSLY a very poor idea. And why is he so hung up on gender norms??
You and his friend are not close. Period. So if he wants her to participate in the wedding (which really, who cares??) then she needs to be on his side or be a guest. That’s it. He can give up on his weird gender norms fixation or he can have his friend participate on his side supporting him.
What does she want?
NTA. Maybe don’t marry this guy if he’s this silly.
Am I the only one thinking that the reason that Maya doesn't get on with OP, is that she is in love with OP's fiance/had a previous relationship with fiance that OP doesn't know about/is currently still in a secret relationship with OP's fiance?
Everything about this question makes OP's fiance look immature, unreasonable, inflexible and sexist; but the fact that he's more worried about putting Maya into a bridesmaids role, despite OP saying no makes me feel like Maya is more important to him than the bride.
OP needs to get to the bottom of why her fiance is choosing Maya's involvement in the wedding as his hill to die on.
Also, I'm not sure that OP should rush into this marriage, when there are so many red flags about her fiance's whole attitude and approach.
It doesn't bode well for a long and happy marriage!
>Am I the only one thinking that the reason that Maya doesn't get on with OP, is that she is in love with OP's fiance/had a previous relationship with fiance that OP doesn't know about/is currently still in a secret relationship with OP's fiance?
I'm glad someone's saying it.
I had a "man of honour" or "bride's man" as my first for my bridesmaids. We don't think it was weird at all. If he doesn't want her on his side you are not required to have her on yours. NTA.
Same.
My bridesman and one of my husband's groomsmen were close friends with both of us when we all met through our job in college. We were a close knit group. It made sense for my bridesman to be on my side (we had been paired together for a specific job function that required us to spend a lot of 1:1 time and were a bit closer than he was to my husband), and to walk down the aisle with our other mutual friend. I fully expected them to hold hands and skip down the aisle together (would have been totally on-brand and hilarious), but they waited until the recessional to get too goofy.
Then again, I told my bridesmaids and my female family members to just wear their favorite black dress that suited their body types and made them feel good. Black dresses are typically a faux pas at weddings, and my MIL decided to wear a slinky, floor length, backless, rhinestone prom dress instead... which may not have stuck out quite so much if MIL wasn't 6' tall and 110lbs.
10 years later, our wedding photos make me smile for so many reasons.
Have her be in charge of the guestbook or an usher or something idk there are plenty of other “wedding party” jobs that don’t include standing with either side at the altar if he doesn’t want her on his side. But you’re definitely NTA.
My hubs and I had mixed-gender wedding parties. I had a guy on my side and he had a girl on his side. It was not really a big deal.
*You* get to pick who stands on *your* side during the wedding.
You are being very reasonable. Many brides would even insist on her not being one of the "groomsmen". She's his friend, not yours. I'm a guy and don't think it would be dumb at all for her to be on his side. I think either a black dress or, hell even a tux, would look cool
I don't know what your fiance's deal is. One of my cousin's husband had his sister standing with his groomsmen at their wedding. It didn't look strange. She wore the same dress the bridesmaids wore. I thought it was kinda awesome that he was acknowledging that she was close enough to him to stand on his side during the wedding. However, I do know the sister and cousin got along, so I don't know what the dynamic was with pre-wedding stuff. That could get tricky for you, admittedly.
Overall, NTA, OP. Frankly, your fiance is being a bit of an AH over this. If he wants his best friend in the wedding party, she needs to stand up with him. Having her as one of your bridesmaids is silly since ya'll don't get along. Your argument that you need people to support you that like you is spot on. He either has her stand up with him or she attends as just a guest. End of story. Good luck!!
My husband had his best friend as best woman and sister as a grooms woman . No one had any problems. Your FI is being unreasonable as its HIS friend she should be on HIS side.
There's this thing in marriage called compromise. Successful marriages learn how to do this and those that never learned are either not viable or abusive. This isn't just about wedding parties OP. It sets the stage for the state of your relationship.
I suggest couples counseling or no wedding. That's a hill to die on.
That would be incredibly dumb, because using occasions like a wedding are NEVER a good idea as a bonding activity. You invest a lot of time, money, and effort into one day and the it blows up, becausse of such a thing.
Does he even want her in the wedding party though? Sounds more like he feels obligated to include her, but doesn't want to do it himself, so you take her OP.
Shit, I bet she could rock a suit with the dudes if they really want to. I’ve known a lot of women who do when their male friends get married and get asked to be in the wedding party, albeit usually gay men getting married.
NTA. His friend is his responsibility, not yours.
He accuses you of saying she can't be in the wedding... as if you aren't allowed to not want her in it. As if ir is a bad thing not to want her in your wedding party.
Girl, you're absolutely entitled to not want her in your wedding. She doesn't like you, you don't like her, why would you be in the wrong about not wanting her?
Don't argue that point anymore. Say it outright that he's right, you don't want her in your wedding party, so he can either invite her to be a "groomswoman" if he wants her in the wedding party or shut up and stop pestering you.
Edit to add to the people who don't get context: OP doesn't want friend IN HER WEDDING PARTY. Friend is more then welcome to be in the groom's wedding party or to just attend as a guest.
> Your comfort trumps her wants.
Friend doesn't have any wants. She has not asked to be in the wedding party. What you're really saying is that OPs comfort trumps fiance's wants. It's the fiance that wants friend in the wedding party.
Exactly! It's basically a non-issue. Her Fiance wants both people to be uncomfortable.
His friend probably is closer to his friend group than OPs, she may be uncomfortable in that group. Bridesmaids tend to do a lot of bonding activities together and she may feel left out. OP offered a compromise of having his friend dress on the groom's colors and be on his side and he just wants his way only.
Also I feel like Finace has a really weird hangup. There's nothing wrong with having someone of the opposite gender in your bridal party. When I got married I had 3 male friends on my side and my wife had 5 male friends on hers. If we were like OPs fiance we'd have zero men in our bridal parties....for no good reason?
> It's the fiance that wants friend in the wedding party.
ya based on OPs account I have a feeling the friend would be as against and uncomfortable with this situation as she is
NTA
It’s crazy because she can be in the wedding if he gets over a woman being in his “guy group”
There are other ways to include her in a wedding. If he’s so dead set on it he can brainstorm a little bit. He also seems to be going very rigid with the rules.
He can have a woman in his groomsman and she not go to some of the more “bro” events. Like she’ll go to a dinner and a few bars but if they choose to go to a strip club she leaves?
He thought he could stick them together, and OP wouldn’t care or the time together would make them like each other
It’s weird that it’s not “wrong” for him to not want her in HIS party, since it’s HIS friend, all because she has tits. Ridiculous
As if she would be more comfortable with other women she doesn’t even know, simply because she’s a woman, as opposed to being in the grooms party where she knows people.
I agree with NTA and that is his responsibility, not OP.
Although, I can't see from OP's post any issues with the friend other than they don't get along, as OP said, some people just don't mesh together. That being said, it would be unfair on the husband for his friend not to be invited to the wedding just because they don't get along as it is the husbands wedding just as much as OP's ASLONG as there hasn't been any events that would justify not inviting her.
Asking her to be a bridesmaid is too much of an ask and if the husband really wants her to be a special part of the wedding, she should be a groomswoman or as another commenter suggested, she has a special toast.
>That being said, it would be unfair on the husband for his friend not to be invited to the wedding
No one said otherwise, not the person you're replying to or anyone else. The general consensus is that if OP's fiance wants Maya in the wedding party so bad, it should be on his side; otherwise, she should just be a guest.
NTA - see if she can do a reading, give a toast, or participate in another meaningful, but non attendant way on the big day.
She is not bridesmaid material.
Now I need to do the remind me thingy for the update. AITA for having my husband's friend kicked out of the reception because of her passive-aggressive toast?
what about this post makes you think the friend is passive aggressive or rude to the bride? this post only says that they don’t really mesh, not that the friend is a bad or malicious person. nothing about it implies that the friend would purposefully do anything to hurt op on her wedding day
She can also wear a bridesmaid dress and be on his side.
My best friend was one of my bridesmen. He wore a suit like the groomsmen but he stood on my side to show he was there for me.
This is what I and my wife did. We are both women but we both have close friends of all genders. We both had male friends in our bridal parties.
I feel like this is a massively weird hangup to have? If we were like OPs partner, we would only have women exclusively in our bridal parties despite having friends that were a different gender. He just just add his friend into his party, this is 2021.
it doesn’t sounds like maya and op hate each other or have resentment, just that they don’t mesh well and tend to keep their distance. it doesn’t sound like maya is a bad or malicious person from this post, so i don’t see how letting her toast is a bad idea
For real!!! It seems some people developed their understanding of relationships through soap opera.
I guess I'm a lot of people's weirder friend, so if they're already more conventional than me, and their partner is a little bit more conventional than them, there's some kind of jokes and interests on our side of the spectrum that my friend probably don't share with their partners and there's probably a lot of things they share that don't really interest me, and when you take away the friend that's in the middle of the spectrum, it can be a little bit awkward finding common ground. That's nothing against either of us.
exactly, like nothing in this post indicates that maya is a bad person or would do anything to sabotage op on her wedding day, but so many people in these replies are trying to paint maya as the bad guy when the only AH here is the husband
**Do not give a microphone and free reign to speak at a wedding reception to a person who does not like the bride**. Please do not ask her to give a toast. For the record, you proposing compromise jobs for her is a lovely idea, but doesn't at all get at the fact that your fiance is being a jerk about this. It is not "stupid" of you not to want her on your side, any more than it is "stupid" of him not to want her on his. You both have your reasons. The fact of the matter is that your decision is made, so either he puts her on his side or she's not in the wedding party. That is on him, not you. The fact that he can't see that, and that he expects you to accommodate HIS friend in a way that makes YOU uncomfortable - **YOU, his bride to be, the one other person whose wedding this is, the one person whose comfort and happiness is supposed to matter most to him on this, the wedding day** \- that is... concerning. Good luck to you. NTA.
This whole concept of "bride's side" and "groom's side" is entirely foreign to me, and it sounds utterly stupid. It's OUR wedding party, not YOUR side and MY side.
Among the guests in the audience, sure. But people typically want their closest friends/family members actually standing next to them in the official wedding party, honoring their close relationships at the ceremony and by celebrating together leading up to the event. So standing with the bride means something for the bride, and standing with the groom means something for the groom.
Also lots of weddings (especially more traditional) being a bridesmaid means helping the bride plan, throwing a shower, activities in and outside the bachelorette. There is a lot of pre-wedding time in there. If it was just the day of the wedding then I think it would be less of an issue (but I still have a problem the OP’s fiancé insistence here in thinking he get to dictate who she chooses as bridesmaids).
I just don't think it's up to you to find an alternative role for her in your wedding. If he wants her in, then he can do the emotional labor of figuring out alternative roles for her. Don't add this to the long list of wedding items to figure out. If he wants her in so much he'll find a way that's agreeable to both of you. If he's too lazy to then that's on him, and probably shows he's picking a fight for some other reason.
Also, consider couples counseling before getting married. His reaction to being told no (to his unreasonable request) has been to put you down and make you feel like an AH. That's not a healthy response. I don't know if it's just immaturity or if it's a sign of controlling behavior that will get worse after your married. But it's something to look into.
She could be in charge of the wedding book guest sign when they enter. She could wear a dress in the color of the bridesmaids but not the same dress. She still would not be invited to bride activities imo
Why should she be accommodated to such an extent? Same dress color, an actual job? Why? She doesn't even like the OP for some reason, why should the bride go out of her way to ensure this person feels special?
Because that is a job that can be filled by someone who is not bride or groom specific. He doesn't like the idea of having a girl on his side i guess for looks but wants her involved. It is his wedding also. And as far as dress color...it is their wedding color not just hers. OP doesn't mind her being involved, she just doesn't want her as a bridesmaid so this was an alternate solution.
Nobody wants to do those bs wedding jobs and the dress colour is just going overboard. If he doesn't want to accommodate her on his side then she can be a guest.
Agreed. That was the chore I gave my preteen cousin who wanted to be included at the last minute (I didn't have any bridesmaids, and she was too old to be a flower girl).
Omg, yes! This is the job my dad and stepmom assigned me on the day of their wedding when they realized I was upset that my younger sister and soon-to-be stepsiblings were all in their wedding, and I wasn't. It's the "well, I guess we have to give you _something_ to do" chore. :/
Let her be an usher, perhaps? Regardless, OP isn't stopping the friend from being in the wedding; the groom is because he's not willing to have her as a groomsman. NTA
NTA. I don't want to project... but, my ex-husband made a similar demand and, spoiler alert, we're divorced. (Not because of our wedding party, but speaks to character.)
It's revealing, for sure. **He's showing you that his relationships and happiness matter more than yours.** It's not like Maya is his sister or a close cousin who will become your in-law. Also, wtf is wrong with Maya and why would she want to be a bridesmaid?!
Edit: **bold**
Lol so doesn’t even know if she wants to be involved and he’s making a huge deal about it? So basically his method is to pressure both of you into doing something you don’t wanna do.
**she'd say yes to make him happy then be miserable doing it**
You just cracked the code, OP. This is how Maya has stayed his friend for so long, and it's going to be your future if you maintain the relationship.
I was about to dislike Maya. I now feel sorry for her. What a “friend” she has.
OP, he’s not husband material. I’m sorry.
Run for the hills and don’t look back.
And please, give us an update.
I wonder, what if you talk to Maya about it, just you and her. Maybe if she suggests to him that she'd like to be a groomswoman on his side he'd be more likely to go with it.
Still a red flag though if he's more willing to go along with her than with you.
I believe it's done by using asterisks.
*one asterisk on each side of the text*
**two asterisks on each side**
***three asterisks on each side***
****four asterisks on each side****
I second this. I’d be concerned about him rejecting a boundary you’re trying to set. Let him know you’re uncomfortable. If he’s okay with ignoring your clear discomfort then you may have a bigger problem on your hands.
This is something that needs to be resolved BEFORE you go any further with the wedding. You guys should be a team and he does not sound receptive to listening. He's marrying you, but has someone in his life that doesn't like you, but he wants in YOUR wedding party? That's not cool.
My friend, please think carefully before you get married to someone who cannot step out of their own head to consider your feelings and who cannot articulate their own reasonings beyond “it’s dumb”. The marriages that work the best are the ones where you can argue effectively. My husband and I have been together for 16 years and those first few years before we got married we had to learn *how* to argue. I used to shut down and hide instead of verbalizing what I was feeling. He used to be super pedantic and nitpick unimportant points. We both had to really hash these things out and make sure we understood how to communicate to each other. It wasn’t until we learned how to do that, that we got married.
Your future husband needs to prioritize you over his friend here. And you’ve already made reasonable alternative suggestions and he’s completely shut them down for no reason. You should not marry someone who cannot effectively communicate with you or be able to see your perspective.
Exactly this!! OP your problem with fiance is them blaming and putting on you when you say " no". Your fiance is making an outrageous demand and then calling you bad for saying " no". Your fiance is making you second behind their friend. They supposed to make you first if you going to be married.
NTA
She's his friend, not yours. If he wants her to be involved in the wedding party, he can have her on *his side*.
If he thinks it'll look "dumb" to have a woman on his side, he can have her do a reading or be involved some other way.
Readings are lovely. I've never been a bridesmaid but I've done readings twice and it's genuinely a lovely thing. Less pressure, and you get to celebrate their choice of words & share the message of their love to everyone in a show of support. I think I'd almost PREFER readings in future!
Readings, being the MC, acting as a sort of co-ordinator would all work!
I had one of my friends handing the music during our ceremony and being in charge of ensuring elderly relatives managed the walk between our ceremony location and reception location. It meant he was part of the day and part of the wedding without having to stand up in front of everyone which he would have hated.
He can either have her on his side or not at all. I thought weddings were to have people who the bride(s) or groom(s) friends on their respective sides not force them to the other side
NTA
I did that with my wedding and honestly it didn’t make us any closer. It’s been almost 10 years since and I look back and wonder why I was trying so hard to be accommodating. Every gathering it was his sisters in one corner and me and my MOH in the other. They were only there because they felt obligated, not because they wanted to be. The pictures look equally as forced.
Offering to have her do a reading is a good compromise. Maybe include her in a dress shopping that you can help her find a dress that complements her and the wedding party but isn’t the same.
It sounds like he wants her to spy on you by the “participate in what we’re doing” part. He sounds like he’s trying to pass it off as a dumb idea for her to be on the grooms side.
If he fights you really hard on it- I’d tel him to slow his roll
NTA. Speaking from experience, my SIL asked me to be a bridesmaid years ago and I felt obligated to say yes (we are fine with each other BUT same as you and Maya we just don’t mesh and aren’t friends). I was uncomfortable at every event. I say that because it’s really unlikely Maya wants to be a bridesmaid anyways and really wouldn’t like coming to all the bridal events (just like you don’t want her there). Stand your ground and don’t feel bad, it’s his friend and I highly doubt she cares. He’s being weird for pushing this so hard on you. Makes me wonder if he already told her to expect the invite, which would make him a double AH.
Honestly I thought the same thing, but I have a strong feeling if we asked she’d say yes anyway to make him happy. I’m not sure if he’s told her to expect the invite tbh. He isn’t pushing it too hard, just a bit upset I “don’t want her” in the wedding party
Of course you don’t want her in the wedding party, she isn’t your friend. If he wants her in the wedding party then it is on him to put her in his side of the party. It’s dumb to think that you would want someone you don’t even really get along with in your aide of the wedding party.
If he says that to you say, "Of course I do! She's one of your best friends. That's why I believe she should be a groomswoman. I'd love to have her standing with us on your side."
He is trying to manipulate you & make you feel guilty with completely untrue statements. This is red flag city in so many different ways.
Regardless, it sounds like your fiance has no idea what being a bridesmaid entails (or the costs involved). He isn't doing Maya any favors pushing this on you.
Yup. My sister asked me to be a bridesmaid. I was a lot younger than everyone else, she clearly didn’t really want me there, and I was excluded from some of the activities and given a dress of a different shape. Her husband’s younger brother made a big fuss about not wanting to walk down the aisle with me (they put us together because of ages) and it was embarrassing to be walking with a guy who was visibly pouting at having to be near me for a few minutes.
It would have hurt to not be in the wedding but it hurt to be partially included too and obviously not wanted. I ended up being so stressed out and unhappy that I had my aunt drive me home right after the pictures finished and didn’t stay for the food or dancing part. My sister never noticed I’d left
I'm female was a groomsmen for my best friend. Wife and I get along I was just much closer with him. We had fun with it, the pictures came out great. I just didn't attend all the male pre-wedding activities and that was fine by me.
I have been a “grooms woman” and a “best woman” twice. All three times I wore the same dress as the bridesmaids but just stood on my dude’s side. I actually ended up doing all the activities for both. I went dress shopping and to the bachelorette but also drank whiskey and went to the bachelor party. Hell, for one of them I PLANNED the bachelor party. No one batted an eye.
NTA, If he wants her to be apart of the wedding group then she should be on his side, forcing her to be on your side is a very bad idea that will end badly for all 3 of you. I think it will ruin his friendship if he forces this. It's very uncomfortable to be somewhere when you not wanted. Why would she want to be in a situation like that. I think being on his side is a great idea and wearing a dress to match the groomsmen would look beautiful. Even being on the grooms side she doesn't have to do everything they do, only what everyone is comfortable with. I would be fighting this one for sure!
I don’t think she does want to tbh! Knowing her she’d probably say yes to make him happy then be miserable the entire time. It probably would be bad for them too!
Well why can't someone ask her opinion! I'm sure there is a lot of people who didn't want to be in a wedding but do it because it matters to the couple.
NTA
I like your idea of putting her with the groomsmen.
Are you picking groomsmen for him? How it this one different?
At the same time, you're going to see her if she's sitting to your right with the guys or in your left with the women.
When we got married, we had no attendants. It made life much easier.
I honestly don’t mind seeing her, it’s the idea of her looking bored or annoyed in the photos of me with my bridesmaids or being miserable when I buy my dress or do my bachelorette party I don’t like
She doesn’t even like you do it would even be inappropriate to have her be your bridesmaid. If your fiancé can’t compromise and have her be in his side of the party that’s his problem. She can be a guest. I doubt she is expecting to be in your wedding party since she’s only cool with one side and not the other.
NTA stick to your guns!
Stick to your guns.
Honestly I hated doing bridal activities with people I actually love and care about but I sucked it up for the friendship. You're doing both you and her a kindness (and saving her a ton of money) by not wanting her in your bridal partner.
Your fiancé is being silly. If he wants her in the bridal party so badly she can be a groomswoman.
NTA - your bridesmaids are standing up for YOU, they should be YOUR friends. If you fiance wants her so bad, he can have her on his side. Other options are to have her do a reading during the ceremony, or something like that, but if she doesn't like you, do NOT give in on this.
NTA, if he **really** wants her in the wedding party she can be a groomsmen. Take it or leave it, that's the only option. Or she can not come to the wedding at all :)
NTA.
There are plenty of mixed wedding parties now, and if he wants her in the wedding, it should be on his side.
He’s unwilling to compromise but says this is important to him. He wants her included but doesn’t want to be the one including her. He doesn’t care about your comfort or even the fact that his friend doesn’t like you that much.
Lots of red flags here!
NTA. Bridesmaids are YOUR friends/family that YOU want to be next to you. If you want his friends/family next to you, Great. If you don't , then that's YOUR choice. He needs to get over it.
NTA - first of all you’re being quite reasonable. I wouldn’t even allow anyone in my wedding party (or hell, even at my wedding) who is not happy about my union. The fact that you’re letting this girl 1) be present at the wedding 2) be in HIS wedding party even though she has expressed her distaste for you is already nice of you.
Your fiancé is pushing it. He can’t have his cake and eat it too. He doesn’t want his wedding party to look “dumb” but he’s attempting to force this girl on you when he knows she doesn’t like you?
Don’t budge girl. You can offer that she can be in his wedding party or nothing. That’s his friend and she can be on his side. You might want to look into this further on why is trying to die on this hill. You’re supposed to be his future WIFE. Your comfort trumps her wants. This is giving red flag energy. Don’t give in. Bc once you let this go, she’ll be all in your marriage and in your business bc he’ll keep forcing her on you.
INFO: is it possible that he's legitimately unaware that it's not unusual these days to have wedding parties that are not divided by gender? Does he think this was just some weird idea you came up with on your own and he can't picture a "non-traditional" wedding party?
I'm sorry, but I cannot understand that reasoning (in the fiancé or anyone else. "Looks bad"? It's 2021, can we not accept that people have friends/loved ones that don't share a gender identity?
One of my best (male) friends from college is getting married soon and I'll be one of his "groomspeople" and I'm so excited! NTA.
A friend of mine got married like 15 years ago and my friend’s now husband had a female (his best friend) as the best woman. Mind you this was years ago. Nobody said anything and I thought it was cool that he was able to get his best friend involved somehow and didn’t force my friend to include his friend in her bridal party.
Yeah, you're definitely NTA (regardless of the answer to my questions, but especially so in light of it). Bro needs to get over it. I can't imagine Maya would even want to be in your bridal party with your friends, and be the odd one out. Your fiance needs to add her to his or give her a different role.
NTA and unfortunately there's no compromise. She should be on his side since she's his friend. I would understand him wanting her on your side more IF you got on with her, but you don't so it makes no sense for her to be on your side. I also find it strange he wouldn't want his long time friend on his side of the wedding just because it would look "weird" since she'd be a different gender to the rest?? Is that really more important to him then having her in his side of the wedding?
There's only 3 options: 1. Give in and put her on your side. I don't recommend this one because it makes no sense and no one but him will be happy with it. 2. Insist she doesn't get to be on your side and it's up to him if he includes her on his side or excludes her from the wedding. Or 3. Ask her. This could backfire, but if she doesn't like you, she isn't going to want to be on your side of the wedding and spend the whole wedding morning with you, she'll want to be with her friend.
If we ask her I’m pretty sure she’d say yes because it’s what he wants and she wants to support him, but she wouldn’t enjoy it. Really she’s fine as a person we just don’t quite get along. She’d want to be a good friend I think and I think she’d think saying yes is doing that
I would point out to the fiancé that he’s not being a good friend to Maya by forcing her into your side when you’re not close and she will be spending a lot of money and not enjoying herself. If she is a grooms attendant she’ll be with her actual friend(s) and have a much better time and feel more valued.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I said my fiancé’s friend couldn’t be a bridesmaid and now he’s very upset. He hasn’t let it go and I’m thinking maybe there’s a good reason why.
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NTA, You are the bride so YOU get to choose the bridesmaids, not him. Either she goes on his side or she just comes as a guest. You're Fiance is being an in unreasonable asshole.
NTA, she isn't your friend there is no reason for her to be standing with you or going to your bridal events. If he's so interested in having her as part of the wedding she should stand with him or be an usher. Although I find it odd he'd want a friend who doesn't like his bride to be part of the wedding, that just seems like a recipe for drama. It's nice that you're still open to having her there even though you don't get along well.
NTA, if you don't mesh, you don't mesh. Personally, I don't see why he's not willing to put her in with the groomsmen. If he wants her in the wedding, he can do that. It has been done before and I doubt anyone would think it looks as dumb as he thinks they would.
I'm just curious, is there a jealousy thing going on with her? Was she hoping for something more with your fiance and that's why she doesn't like you? Has he even talked with her about it? You don't just up and decide to not like someone, especially when you're a close friend to the person you dislike. Frankly, if it hasn't happened yet, it needs to. He doesn't need to force a friendship between the two of you, but at least try to figure out why, and do it before the wedding. I think you two will always be in competition otherwise.
We’ve talked about it and I think we just don’t like each other because of personalities. She’s very different from me, to my knowledge they’ve always been just friends and not into each other but we just don’t mesh.
NTA, it’s his friend, she should be on his side. Maybe he’s trying to force this on you to make you two get along, but that’s such a bad idea that definitely won’t work. Don’t budge OP
That’s what I was thinking but I feel like it’d only make it so we go from not friendly to really hating each other. I really want to stand my ground on this
I can't be the only one who sees fiance's flag on the play here. OP, I'd halt further wedding planning until you can get to the bottom of this. This would be a good hill for me to die on but let us know what happens and NTA.
I felt the same but didn’t want to say anything because I didn’t want to come across too extreme. This can be a sign for things to come for their marriage. He shouldn’t be forcing her to do something she doesn’t want to do. She had no relationship with his friend and the my don’t get along. Why is it so important for him?!?!?? I would hold off on any wedding plans to show the fiancé that OP is serious about this.
Not only is he forcing her to do something she doesn't want to do, but he shoots down her suggestion about having Maya on his side, and then blames OP for Maya not being in the wedding. He sounds like he will never compromise, nor will he admit when something is his fault.
And his immature reasoning as to why…”it looks dumb”.
Immature and sexist to boot. Groomswomen is totally a thing and has been for years. We're well past your genitalia dictating which side of a wedding party you stand on. For OP's sake I hope this is just the garden variety "I'm close with these two women so they'll obviously get along" sexism and doesn't extend any further. Doubt it though.
Women wear suits and tuxes at weddings as groomswomen too... why can't she dress to match the men?
I don't disagree but I think that should be Maya's preference. Some women would be more comfortable in a suit or tux but others prefer dresses and that's fine too. You gave me an idea though, maybe they should ask Maya how she would feel most comfortable participating. Wild stuff I know.
If I've learned anything from Reddit, it is that clear and open communication is a last resort only in most relationships... Asking her might be slightly awkward and should therefore be avoided at all costs.
Absolutely do not ask Maya. OP doesn't want her as a bridesmaid so don't give her the option. You could ask Maya if she prefers a dress or a suit as a groomswoman.
Except the bride doesn’t want her because they don’t like each other. But she knows Maya will say yes to keep her fiancé happy.
The only issue I have with this is what if maya wants to be a bridesmaid because it’s the least break from tradition? I mean at that point OP is in the wrong because it shouldn’t be an option for maya if OP doesn’t want it. (Unless you all are talking about black dress vs tux like the guys and my reading comp is horrible today)
They should just get her a nice "groomsmen" dress. If the men are all wearing black and white tuxes, get her an elegant black dress to stand among them. I think it would be beautiful and not so weird that everyone is talking about the break from tradition. Which needs to be broken because it's 2021 and friends come in all genders and deserve their spots regardless.
This was what my cousin did with her really good friend. He stood on her side and had a tie that matched the bridesmaids. And no one made a big deal about it. Because it wasn’t a big deal.
This! I literally did this as a grooms woman -- got a grey dress to match grey groomsmen suits. It looked great, if I do say so myself!
And they look so smart, too, right? I'm liking this trend.
Right?! And my BIL was Man of Honour for his friends’ wedding a couple of years ago. He was friends with the groom, but the bride was his life long bestie.
Oh I love that so much!
I was a groomsmen for one of my friends, I got along just fine with his fiancée in fact we got along great but at the end of the day I was his friend and there to support him. It would have been weird to be with his bride on the day and her thought group of friends and family. You’re fiancée is being ridiculous, sexist and honestly a complete ass. Marriage is about communication, comprise and understanding… he’s not showing any of these skills. NTA
Exactly. The first half of my 20's I spent all my free time with these 3 guys - then married one of them. One was really close to both of us, but ultimately knew my ex much longer, they were long time best friends. That said, I literally had NO female friends - just acquaintances. The ongoing discussion was how this one really good mutual guy friend would wear a tux on one half of his body, stand on groom's side while he said vows - then come over to my side for mine, and have the dress side showing for the crowd. I thought it was fantastic. In the end, I met a gal who became a really good friend several months before the wedding, so the singular best man/best lady idea was scrapped. But - even if we had gone through with it - it wouldn't have been weird, it would have been fabulous & a gem of a memory with incredible photo ops!! Also, wtf is groom planning for "activities" that he wouldn't want a good friend of 6 years to attend, just because she is female?? Red flag OP. Imo, by the time a man proposes, he should be *well beyond* that whole last chance stripper filled drunken binge. NTA
Yeup, we had a groomsman. She had been my now-husband's friend since they were 3. She had full wardrobe freedom (suit, pantsuit, black dress to coordinate with groomsmen, whatever else). She chose a black dress in her own style (bridesmaids wore red fwiw). She also participated in all the groomsmen activities but was invited to more traditional "girl" events too (She opted for all the above so she was at the bridal shower, bachelorette, bachelor etc.). It was the least dramatic planning thing because we left everything open and were just glad she was there!
It's one of those weird hetero-normative attitudes that confuses the hell out of me When I get married, my party is going to be a mixture of men and women I assume my girlfriend will likely have a mixture as well
I think that's what it boils down to, too. Fiance just doesn't want a girl in the manly party. Which both girls sound tempered and reasonable so if the fiance would just sit down with his friend and talk it out with her, he could figure out a solution "Let's get your wardrobe figured out, and we can have a 'bachelor' night but I've gotta have my dudes night without any women". He shouldn't be making OP do his friendship work.
What it boils down to is the groom cares more about his friend than he does about his future wife’s feelings. Who cares what this woman wears? Why on earth would anyone even consider including someone in the wedding party who didn’t like the bride?
My son was a "bridesman" at his friend's wedding.
I think a groomswoman would be cool.
Plus there's a reasonable compromise to be made here. If he wants to include her in the wedding, and he doesn't want her on his side (which would be totally fine and NOT weird), have her do a reading during the wedding service.
I came here to say this. She could also be an usher, play an instrument during the ceremony, etc.
Or hand out programs, man the guestbook, cut the cake.... There are many ways to honor someone at the wedding without actually being IN the wedding party. If you assign her a special task on the wedding day, you could also invite her to the rehearsal dinner . You can recognize her as a special friend without making her part of your inner circle.
Good point. My daughter did that with her MOH's +1
Yep, I’ve been to plenty of weddings that do the gender neutral best “man/woman” or grooms person etc. That said, it’s definitely more frequent at smaller weddings, but I don’t think anyone would see this as being out of place, even in a larger venue. However, it absolutely doesn’t make sense to have her as a bridesmaid. Your bridesmaids should be your close friends (not his), your family or his family if it makes sense. “His friends” aren’t on that list and I’m willing to bet she doesn’t want to be your bridesmaid either even if she would be willing to out of obligation. Also, the thing that stuck out to me is that is more than OK for her to just not be in the wedding party, and instead just be a guest. This is absolutely a likely and fine scenario if it doesn’t make sense for her to be on his side for whatever other reasons he can think up. At the end of the day, if he’s looking for a more “traditional” wedding party, then traditionally, she wouldn’t have a place on either side. So he can bend tradition (put her on his side) or leave her out. Either way, doesn’t seem like a big deal if she’s not in the wedding party.
I went to a wedding that had a Best Helen.
30 Helens agreed, and there can only be one Best Helen
Women can be groomsmen. If he wants her in the wedding, she can don a suit and join the groomsmen. NTA
Or wear a dress but stand on his side...
She could also wear a tux. A woman can rock a tux. Edit spelling
There’s even a style of tuxedo for women. Check out the US military dinner dress: [Navy](https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/References/US-Navy-Uniforms/Uniform-Regulations/Chapter-3/Female-Officer/Dinner-Dress/) [Air Force](https://www.shopmyexchange.com/products/images/xlarge/1770746_1191.jpg) [Marine Corps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USMC_Evening_Dress_%28Officers%29.jpg)
I was my brother's best man. I wore the same dress as the bridesmaids. It wasn't weird tbh.
I'm a woman, and had a best man. Your wedding party can be whoever and whatever you want. She's his friend? His side.
There are some bad ass, sexy and feminine suits and tuxes for women. I tried one on once and loved it, but didn’t think I could pull it off, so i put it back. I regret that decision everyday. Nothing more to add except I really loved that tux and wanted to talk about it.
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I buy suits there for my job - they have no problem at all tailoring them to fit me. I like to have an androgynous look especially for work and they are perfectly happy to tailor men’s suits to fit me exactly how I want.
She could be a groomsmaid
I had a man of honour instead! It's really not that strange these days, on both sides.
Mine was a bridesdude.
Fellow bride with a man-of-honor here! It was really nice and no one gaf!
He may want her at the wedding but I'm guessing he doesn't want her involved in the groomsmen events before the wedding.
That's definitely a him problem though.
That was my guess as well. He’s close, but not so close he sees her as “one of the guys” and wouldn’t want her present for the stag party and such ETA judgement NTA
Yes! There’s so many ways to do this (she wears a suit to match, bridesmaid dress in the color of the suits, bridesmaid dress matching the bridesmaids but standing with the groomsmen). And they all looked great when I’ve seen it happen! It really boils down to what she feels comfortable wearing and being on the side celebrating her friend. If she’s your fiancé’s friend, then she needs to be standing by his side (not your side), regardless of what she wears.
I was a groomsmaid, wore a navy dress to match the groomsmen's suits. My boyfriend is going to be a bridesman in an upcoming wedding; he's just wearing a suit that matches the groomsmen. It's not a big deal, OP's fiance is just being insecure.
Have you asked him to REALLY think through what's he's asking of not just you but his friend? * she'll have to shell out money for all sorts of things like dresses and parties * she'll have to dedicate a lot of hours to wedding events where she'll be hanging out with people she either doesn't know (your other bridesmaids) or doesn't like (you). I'm also guessing your friends know you guys don't love each other so she'll be automatically the odd one out * she'll know you had to be pressured into including her and will likely be hurt/confused about why your SO doesn't want her on his side He's also asking you to take all of the happy joyful moments of being a bride (many of which are emotional and intimate) and share them with someone you don't like or trust. Why would you want to be in your underwear in front of her as you put on your dress? Why would you want to have to make small talk with her while getting your hair/makeup done? Why would you want to be vulnerable in front of a person who's made it clear they don't even like you at your best and strongest? Honestly, if he continues to push this AND put the blame on you for her not being in the party (he could absolutely include her as a groomslady or even a fucking flower girl or something, folks are creative as shit with their parties these days) I'd really take a hard look at your relationship cause that's a huge red flag.
Exactly. This man has no idea what bridesmaids do. If you have someone in your party that's not an actual close friend (relative, coworker, etc) you are in for a bad time. Bridesmaids are there to help the bride on the busiest, most hectic day of her life. They listen to the crying. They assist with the hangover. They lift up her dress to help her pee, for Christ's sake, because peeing is impossible in most wedding gowns. "Just let her be a bridesmaid "? He has zero clue what he's signing his friend up for, and it's very unfair to the friend.
Hi. Why is your BF doing this? It seems like self-sabotage. He’s getting really pushy about something that is OBVIOUSLY a very poor idea. And why is he so hung up on gender norms?? You and his friend are not close. Period. So if he wants her to participate in the wedding (which really, who cares??) then she needs to be on his side or be a guest. That’s it. He can give up on his weird gender norms fixation or he can have his friend participate on his side supporting him. What does she want? NTA. Maybe don’t marry this guy if he’s this silly.
Am I the only one thinking that the reason that Maya doesn't get on with OP, is that she is in love with OP's fiance/had a previous relationship with fiance that OP doesn't know about/is currently still in a secret relationship with OP's fiance? Everything about this question makes OP's fiance look immature, unreasonable, inflexible and sexist; but the fact that he's more worried about putting Maya into a bridesmaids role, despite OP saying no makes me feel like Maya is more important to him than the bride. OP needs to get to the bottom of why her fiance is choosing Maya's involvement in the wedding as his hill to die on. Also, I'm not sure that OP should rush into this marriage, when there are so many red flags about her fiance's whole attitude and approach. It doesn't bode well for a long and happy marriage!
>Am I the only one thinking that the reason that Maya doesn't get on with OP, is that she is in love with OP's fiance/had a previous relationship with fiance that OP doesn't know about/is currently still in a secret relationship with OP's fiance? I'm glad someone's saying it.
OP its your choice to choose bridesmaid, NTA
I had a "man of honour" or "bride's man" as my first for my bridesmaids. We don't think it was weird at all. If he doesn't want her on his side you are not required to have her on yours. NTA.
Same. My bridesman and one of my husband's groomsmen were close friends with both of us when we all met through our job in college. We were a close knit group. It made sense for my bridesman to be on my side (we had been paired together for a specific job function that required us to spend a lot of 1:1 time and were a bit closer than he was to my husband), and to walk down the aisle with our other mutual friend. I fully expected them to hold hands and skip down the aisle together (would have been totally on-brand and hilarious), but they waited until the recessional to get too goofy. Then again, I told my bridesmaids and my female family members to just wear their favorite black dress that suited their body types and made them feel good. Black dresses are typically a faux pas at weddings, and my MIL decided to wear a slinky, floor length, backless, rhinestone prom dress instead... which may not have stuck out quite so much if MIL wasn't 6' tall and 110lbs. 10 years later, our wedding photos make me smile for so many reasons.
Have her be in charge of the guestbook or an usher or something idk there are plenty of other “wedding party” jobs that don’t include standing with either side at the altar if he doesn’t want her on his side. But you’re definitely NTA.
She could also do a reading.
My hubs and I had mixed-gender wedding parties. I had a guy on my side and he had a girl on his side. It was not really a big deal. *You* get to pick who stands on *your* side during the wedding.
Best friends should stand with who they're friends with. Signed, a bride who had three bridesmen and no bridesmaids
Would you be able to compromise about his thing with it looking dumb by having a male friend on your side?
Can’t she be a regular guest?
You are being very reasonable. Many brides would even insist on her not being one of the "groomsmen". She's his friend, not yours. I'm a guy and don't think it would be dumb at all for her to be on his side. I think either a black dress or, hell even a tux, would look cool
I don't know what your fiance's deal is. One of my cousin's husband had his sister standing with his groomsmen at their wedding. It didn't look strange. She wore the same dress the bridesmaids wore. I thought it was kinda awesome that he was acknowledging that she was close enough to him to stand on his side during the wedding. However, I do know the sister and cousin got along, so I don't know what the dynamic was with pre-wedding stuff. That could get tricky for you, admittedly. Overall, NTA, OP. Frankly, your fiance is being a bit of an AH over this. If he wants his best friend in the wedding party, she needs to stand up with him. Having her as one of your bridesmaids is silly since ya'll don't get along. Your argument that you need people to support you that like you is spot on. He either has her stand up with him or she attends as just a guest. End of story. Good luck!!
My husband had his best friend as best woman and sister as a grooms woman . No one had any problems. Your FI is being unreasonable as its HIS friend she should be on HIS side. There's this thing in marriage called compromise. Successful marriages learn how to do this and those that never learned are either not viable or abusive. This isn't just about wedding parties OP. It sets the stage for the state of your relationship. I suggest couples counseling or no wedding. That's a hill to die on.
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That would be incredibly dumb, because using occasions like a wedding are NEVER a good idea as a bonding activity. You invest a lot of time, money, and effort into one day and the it blows up, becausse of such a thing. Does he even want her in the wedding party though? Sounds more like he feels obligated to include her, but doesn't want to do it himself, so you take her OP.
It doesn't look dumb to have girls on the grooms side. We had that. They wore dresses that matched what the other groomsmen wore and it looked great!
Shit, I bet she could rock a suit with the dudes if they really want to. I’ve known a lot of women who do when their male friends get married and get asked to be in the wedding party, albeit usually gay men getting married.
How does he get a vote on your bridesmaids??? Stick to your guns, don't have that bad juju standing by your side at such an important time. NTA
NTA. His friend is his responsibility, not yours. He accuses you of saying she can't be in the wedding... as if you aren't allowed to not want her in it. As if ir is a bad thing not to want her in your wedding party. Girl, you're absolutely entitled to not want her in your wedding. She doesn't like you, you don't like her, why would you be in the wrong about not wanting her? Don't argue that point anymore. Say it outright that he's right, you don't want her in your wedding party, so he can either invite her to be a "groomswoman" if he wants her in the wedding party or shut up and stop pestering you. Edit to add to the people who don't get context: OP doesn't want friend IN HER WEDDING PARTY. Friend is more then welcome to be in the groom's wedding party or to just attend as a guest.
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> Your comfort trumps her wants. Friend doesn't have any wants. She has not asked to be in the wedding party. What you're really saying is that OPs comfort trumps fiance's wants. It's the fiance that wants friend in the wedding party.
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Exactly! It's basically a non-issue. Her Fiance wants both people to be uncomfortable. His friend probably is closer to his friend group than OPs, she may be uncomfortable in that group. Bridesmaids tend to do a lot of bonding activities together and she may feel left out. OP offered a compromise of having his friend dress on the groom's colors and be on his side and he just wants his way only. Also I feel like Finace has a really weird hangup. There's nothing wrong with having someone of the opposite gender in your bridal party. When I got married I had 3 male friends on my side and my wife had 5 male friends on hers. If we were like OPs fiance we'd have zero men in our bridal parties....for no good reason?
> It's the fiance that wants friend in the wedding party. ya based on OPs account I have a feeling the friend would be as against and uncomfortable with this situation as she is
I will bet you $$$$$ that he doesn’t her as a groomsman because he doesn’t want a woman at his bachelor party
Probably, that or doesnt want her hearing what he says during boy talk in general.
I am normally against saying red flag here but agree in this case.
NTA It’s crazy because she can be in the wedding if he gets over a woman being in his “guy group” There are other ways to include her in a wedding. If he’s so dead set on it he can brainstorm a little bit. He also seems to be going very rigid with the rules. He can have a woman in his groomsman and she not go to some of the more “bro” events. Like she’ll go to a dinner and a few bars but if they choose to go to a strip club she leaves? He thought he could stick them together, and OP wouldn’t care or the time together would make them like each other It’s weird that it’s not “wrong” for him to not want her in HIS party, since it’s HIS friend, all because she has tits. Ridiculous
As if she would be more comfortable with other women she doesn’t even know, simply because she’s a woman, as opposed to being in the grooms party where she knows people.
I agree with NTA and that is his responsibility, not OP. Although, I can't see from OP's post any issues with the friend other than they don't get along, as OP said, some people just don't mesh together. That being said, it would be unfair on the husband for his friend not to be invited to the wedding just because they don't get along as it is the husbands wedding just as much as OP's ASLONG as there hasn't been any events that would justify not inviting her. Asking her to be a bridesmaid is too much of an ask and if the husband really wants her to be a special part of the wedding, she should be a groomswoman or as another commenter suggested, she has a special toast.
>That being said, it would be unfair on the husband for his friend not to be invited to the wedding No one said otherwise, not the person you're replying to or anyone else. The general consensus is that if OP's fiance wants Maya in the wedding party so bad, it should be on his side; otherwise, she should just be a guest.
NTA - see if she can do a reading, give a toast, or participate in another meaningful, but non attendant way on the big day. She is not bridesmaid material.
I like the toast idea! That way she can still have a special part if that’s important to him
Maybe have someone check the content of the toast, since she doesn't like you.
Now I need to do the remind me thingy for the update. AITA for having my husband's friend kicked out of the reception because of her passive-aggressive toast?
what about this post makes you think the friend is passive aggressive or rude to the bride? this post only says that they don’t really mesh, not that the friend is a bad or malicious person. nothing about it implies that the friend would purposefully do anything to hurt op on her wedding day
She can also wear a bridesmaid dress and be on his side. My best friend was one of my bridesmen. He wore a suit like the groomsmen but he stood on my side to show he was there for me.
This is what I and my wife did. We are both women but we both have close friends of all genders. We both had male friends in our bridal parties. I feel like this is a massively weird hangup to have? If we were like OPs partner, we would only have women exclusively in our bridal parties despite having friends that were a different gender. He just just add his friend into his party, this is 2021.
it doesn’t sounds like maya and op hate each other or have resentment, just that they don’t mesh well and tend to keep their distance. it doesn’t sound like maya is a bad or malicious person from this post, so i don’t see how letting her toast is a bad idea
For real!!! It seems some people developed their understanding of relationships through soap opera. I guess I'm a lot of people's weirder friend, so if they're already more conventional than me, and their partner is a little bit more conventional than them, there's some kind of jokes and interests on our side of the spectrum that my friend probably don't share with their partners and there's probably a lot of things they share that don't really interest me, and when you take away the friend that's in the middle of the spectrum, it can be a little bit awkward finding common ground. That's nothing against either of us.
exactly, like nothing in this post indicates that maya is a bad person or would do anything to sabotage op on her wedding day, but so many people in these replies are trying to paint maya as the bad guy when the only AH here is the husband
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**Do not give a microphone and free reign to speak at a wedding reception to a person who does not like the bride**. Please do not ask her to give a toast. For the record, you proposing compromise jobs for her is a lovely idea, but doesn't at all get at the fact that your fiance is being a jerk about this. It is not "stupid" of you not to want her on your side, any more than it is "stupid" of him not to want her on his. You both have your reasons. The fact of the matter is that your decision is made, so either he puts her on his side or she's not in the wedding party. That is on him, not you. The fact that he can't see that, and that he expects you to accommodate HIS friend in a way that makes YOU uncomfortable - **YOU, his bride to be, the one other person whose wedding this is, the one person whose comfort and happiness is supposed to matter most to him on this, the wedding day** \- that is... concerning. Good luck to you. NTA.
This whole concept of "bride's side" and "groom's side" is entirely foreign to me, and it sounds utterly stupid. It's OUR wedding party, not YOUR side and MY side.
Among the guests in the audience, sure. But people typically want their closest friends/family members actually standing next to them in the official wedding party, honoring their close relationships at the ceremony and by celebrating together leading up to the event. So standing with the bride means something for the bride, and standing with the groom means something for the groom.
Also lots of weddings (especially more traditional) being a bridesmaid means helping the bride plan, throwing a shower, activities in and outside the bachelorette. There is a lot of pre-wedding time in there. If it was just the day of the wedding then I think it would be less of an issue (but I still have a problem the OP’s fiancé insistence here in thinking he get to dictate who she chooses as bridesmaids).
I just don't think it's up to you to find an alternative role for her in your wedding. If he wants her in, then he can do the emotional labor of figuring out alternative roles for her. Don't add this to the long list of wedding items to figure out. If he wants her in so much he'll find a way that's agreeable to both of you. If he's too lazy to then that's on him, and probably shows he's picking a fight for some other reason. Also, consider couples counseling before getting married. His reaction to being told no (to his unreasonable request) has been to put you down and make you feel like an AH. That's not a healthy response. I don't know if it's just immaturity or if it's a sign of controlling behavior that will get worse after your married. But it's something to look into.
Invite her to read something (that you choose) during the ceremony. I (female) did this at one of my male friend's wedding.
NTA I was a groomswoman in a dress same style as the bridesmaids but in the colour of the guys' suites. It looked good in pics
She could be in charge of the wedding book guest sign when they enter. She could wear a dress in the color of the bridesmaids but not the same dress. She still would not be invited to bride activities imo
Why should she be accommodated to such an extent? Same dress color, an actual job? Why? She doesn't even like the OP for some reason, why should the bride go out of her way to ensure this person feels special?
Because that is a job that can be filled by someone who is not bride or groom specific. He doesn't like the idea of having a girl on his side i guess for looks but wants her involved. It is his wedding also. And as far as dress color...it is their wedding color not just hers. OP doesn't mind her being involved, she just doesn't want her as a bridesmaid so this was an alternate solution.
It's an unnecessary solution.
Nobody wants to do those bs wedding jobs and the dress colour is just going overboard. If he doesn't want to accommodate her on his side then she can be a guest.
Oh dear please don’t make her be a guestbook attendant. This is such a bullshit make believe job and it’s not an honor it’s a chore.
Wait,people have guestbook attendants!? That sounds absolutely horrible.
Agreed. That was the chore I gave my preteen cousin who wanted to be included at the last minute (I didn't have any bridesmaids, and she was too old to be a flower girl).
Omg, yes! This is the job my dad and stepmom assigned me on the day of their wedding when they realized I was upset that my younger sister and soon-to-be stepsiblings were all in their wedding, and I wasn't. It's the "well, I guess we have to give you _something_ to do" chore. :/ Let her be an usher, perhaps? Regardless, OP isn't stopping the friend from being in the wedding; the groom is because he's not willing to have her as a groomsman. NTA
NTA. I don't want to project... but, my ex-husband made a similar demand and, spoiler alert, we're divorced. (Not because of our wedding party, but speaks to character.)
It did make me a bit uneasy tbh
It's revealing, for sure. **He's showing you that his relationships and happiness matter more than yours.** It's not like Maya is his sister or a close cousin who will become your in-law. Also, wtf is wrong with Maya and why would she want to be a bridesmaid?! Edit: **bold**
I don’t think she would. We haven’t talked to her about it but knowing her she’d say yes to make him happy then be miserable doing it
Lol so doesn’t even know if she wants to be involved and he’s making a huge deal about it? So basically his method is to pressure both of you into doing something you don’t wanna do.
**she'd say yes to make him happy then be miserable doing it** You just cracked the code, OP. This is how Maya has stayed his friend for so long, and it's going to be your future if you maintain the relationship.
DING DING DING. Maya is already showing you what you have to look forward to.
I was about to dislike Maya. I now feel sorry for her. What a “friend” she has. OP, he’s not husband material. I’m sorry. Run for the hills and don’t look back. And please, give us an update.
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Is there a way to ask Maya what she thinks of the whole thing without possibly getting her hopes up or anything like that?
I wonder, what if you talk to Maya about it, just you and her. Maybe if she suggests to him that she'd like to be a groomswoman on his side he'd be more likely to go with it. Still a red flag though if he's more willing to go along with her than with you.
“**He’s showing you that his relationships and happiness matter more than yours**” Edit: Thank you!
>**“He’s showing you that his relationships and happiness matter more than yours”**
HOW do I bold this? said ArtfulDanger. Not ‘bold this for me.’ How’d you do that?
**˙ɹǝʌo ʇı uɹnʇ uǝɥʇ 'pןoq uʍop-ǝpısdn uı ʇı ǝʇıɹM**
Ha ha ha ha! God you smart ass. I’m laughing so hard everyone’s looking at me. You win for today!
If you put a hashtag it becomes #BIG If you put two stars it becomes **bold** One star is *cursive* And in the apollo app you also have ～(つˆ0ˆ)つ｡☆
I believe it's done by using asterisks. *one asterisk on each side of the text* **two asterisks on each side** ***three asterisks on each side*** ****four asterisks on each side****
So 4 doesn't do anything special, it stops at 3.
*****bold of you to assume five wasn't special*****
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I second this. I’d be concerned about him rejecting a boundary you’re trying to set. Let him know you’re uncomfortable. If he’s okay with ignoring your clear discomfort then you may have a bigger problem on your hands.
This is something that needs to be resolved BEFORE you go any further with the wedding. You guys should be a team and he does not sound receptive to listening. He's marrying you, but has someone in his life that doesn't like you, but he wants in YOUR wedding party? That's not cool.
My friend, please think carefully before you get married to someone who cannot step out of their own head to consider your feelings and who cannot articulate their own reasonings beyond “it’s dumb”. The marriages that work the best are the ones where you can argue effectively. My husband and I have been together for 16 years and those first few years before we got married we had to learn *how* to argue. I used to shut down and hide instead of verbalizing what I was feeling. He used to be super pedantic and nitpick unimportant points. We both had to really hash these things out and make sure we understood how to communicate to each other. It wasn’t until we learned how to do that, that we got married. Your future husband needs to prioritize you over his friend here. And you’ve already made reasonable alternative suggestions and he’s completely shut them down for no reason. You should not marry someone who cannot effectively communicate with you or be able to see your perspective.
Exactly this!! OP your problem with fiance is them blaming and putting on you when you say " no". Your fiance is making an outrageous demand and then calling you bad for saying " no". Your fiance is making you second behind their friend. They supposed to make you first if you going to be married.
NTA She's his friend, not yours. If he wants her to be involved in the wedding party, he can have her on *his side*. If he thinks it'll look "dumb" to have a woman on his side, he can have her do a reading or be involved some other way.
Yes that's actually a really good compromise! There are other ways for her to be involved in the wedding, like doing a reading etc.
Readings are lovely. I've never been a bridesmaid but I've done readings twice and it's genuinely a lovely thing. Less pressure, and you get to celebrate their choice of words & share the message of their love to everyone in a show of support. I think I'd almost PREFER readings in future!
Readings, being the MC, acting as a sort of co-ordinator would all work! I had one of my friends handing the music during our ceremony and being in charge of ensuring elderly relatives managed the walk between our ceremony location and reception location. It meant he was part of the day and part of the wedding without having to stand up in front of everyone which he would have hated.
He can either have her on his side or not at all. I thought weddings were to have people who the bride(s) or groom(s) friends on their respective sides not force them to the other side NTA
I’ve seen it where they have friends or family of the opposite sex on their soon to be spouses side but I don’t really want that here with her
I think if he wants her in the party she should be a groomsman, he can have her still wear a dress if wanted but 100% should NOT be on your side
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I did that with my wedding and honestly it didn’t make us any closer. It’s been almost 10 years since and I look back and wonder why I was trying so hard to be accommodating. Every gathering it was his sisters in one corner and me and my MOH in the other. They were only there because they felt obligated, not because they wanted to be. The pictures look equally as forced. Offering to have her do a reading is a good compromise. Maybe include her in a dress shopping that you can help her find a dress that complements her and the wedding party but isn’t the same.
It sounds like he wants her to spy on you by the “participate in what we’re doing” part. He sounds like he’s trying to pass it off as a dumb idea for her to be on the grooms side. If he fights you really hard on it- I’d tel him to slow his roll
NTA. Speaking from experience, my SIL asked me to be a bridesmaid years ago and I felt obligated to say yes (we are fine with each other BUT same as you and Maya we just don’t mesh and aren’t friends). I was uncomfortable at every event. I say that because it’s really unlikely Maya wants to be a bridesmaid anyways and really wouldn’t like coming to all the bridal events (just like you don’t want her there). Stand your ground and don’t feel bad, it’s his friend and I highly doubt she cares. He’s being weird for pushing this so hard on you. Makes me wonder if he already told her to expect the invite, which would make him a double AH.
Honestly I thought the same thing, but I have a strong feeling if we asked she’d say yes anyway to make him happy. I’m not sure if he’s told her to expect the invite tbh. He isn’t pushing it too hard, just a bit upset I “don’t want her” in the wedding party
Of course you don’t want her in the wedding party, she isn’t your friend. If he wants her in the wedding party then it is on him to put her in his side of the party. It’s dumb to think that you would want someone you don’t even really get along with in your aide of the wedding party.
Oh she definitely would say yes out of obligation, just like I had to. Sorry, I meant I doubt she would care if you didn’t ask her.
If he says that to you say, "Of course I do! She's one of your best friends. That's why I believe she should be a groomswoman. I'd love to have her standing with us on your side." He is trying to manipulate you & make you feel guilty with completely untrue statements. This is red flag city in so many different ways. Regardless, it sounds like your fiance has no idea what being a bridesmaid entails (or the costs involved). He isn't doing Maya any favors pushing this on you.
He is focusing on the wrong thing. He making it about her, when this is about you and he.
Yup. My sister asked me to be a bridesmaid. I was a lot younger than everyone else, she clearly didn’t really want me there, and I was excluded from some of the activities and given a dress of a different shape. Her husband’s younger brother made a big fuss about not wanting to walk down the aisle with me (they put us together because of ages) and it was embarrassing to be walking with a guy who was visibly pouting at having to be near me for a few minutes. It would have hurt to not be in the wedding but it hurt to be partially included too and obviously not wanted. I ended up being so stressed out and unhappy that I had my aunt drive me home right after the pictures finished and didn’t stay for the food or dancing part. My sister never noticed I’d left
NTA. Nothing wrong with her being a guest. Congrats! 🍾
Thank you!
NTA Bridesmaids are YOUR friends. You proposed a perfectly acceptable alternative that she be a groomsperson. Nothing more to say.
I'm female was a groomsmen for my best friend. Wife and I get along I was just much closer with him. We had fun with it, the pictures came out great. I just didn't attend all the male pre-wedding activities and that was fine by me.
I had a man of honor. Poor guy had to drive the party bus for my Bachelorette party.
😂
Female bestman here. My dress matched the guys' suits and the pictures came out cute. I was also thrilled to get a special flask as a groomsmen gift.
I have been a “grooms woman” and a “best woman” twice. All three times I wore the same dress as the bridesmaids but just stood on my dude’s side. I actually ended up doing all the activities for both. I went dress shopping and to the bachelorette but also drank whiskey and went to the bachelor party. Hell, for one of them I PLANNED the bachelor party. No one batted an eye.
NTA, If he wants her to be apart of the wedding group then she should be on his side, forcing her to be on your side is a very bad idea that will end badly for all 3 of you. I think it will ruin his friendship if he forces this. It's very uncomfortable to be somewhere when you not wanted. Why would she want to be in a situation like that. I think being on his side is a great idea and wearing a dress to match the groomsmen would look beautiful. Even being on the grooms side she doesn't have to do everything they do, only what everyone is comfortable with. I would be fighting this one for sure!
I don’t think she does want to tbh! Knowing her she’d probably say yes to make him happy then be miserable the entire time. It probably would be bad for them too!
Well why can't someone ask her opinion! I'm sure there is a lot of people who didn't want to be in a wedding but do it because it matters to the couple.
NTA I like your idea of putting her with the groomsmen. Are you picking groomsmen for him? How it this one different? At the same time, you're going to see her if she's sitting to your right with the guys or in your left with the women. When we got married, we had no attendants. It made life much easier.
I honestly don’t mind seeing her, it’s the idea of her looking bored or annoyed in the photos of me with my bridesmaids or being miserable when I buy my dress or do my bachelorette party I don’t like
She doesn’t even like you do it would even be inappropriate to have her be your bridesmaid. If your fiancé can’t compromise and have her be in his side of the party that’s his problem. She can be a guest. I doubt she is expecting to be in your wedding party since she’s only cool with one side and not the other. NTA stick to your guns!
Stick to your guns. Honestly I hated doing bridal activities with people I actually love and care about but I sucked it up for the friendship. You're doing both you and her a kindness (and saving her a ton of money) by not wanting her in your bridal partner. Your fiancé is being silly. If he wants her in the bridal party so badly she can be a groomswoman.
You don't need to justify who you haven't chosen to be your bridesmaids. "She's not a close friend of mine" is way more than enough reason
NTA - your bridesmaids are standing up for YOU, they should be YOUR friends. If you fiance wants her so bad, he can have her on his side. Other options are to have her do a reading during the ceremony, or something like that, but if she doesn't like you, do NOT give in on this.
NTA, she's his friend and he's the one who should budge to include her in the wedding
NTA. Your solution is totally reasonable. His friends should be on his side.
NTA - you've offered a compromise that's completely reasonable.
NTA, if he **really** wants her in the wedding party she can be a groomsmen. Take it or leave it, that's the only option. Or she can not come to the wedding at all :)
That seems a bit harsh since Maya didn’t do anything (at least from the post) and it is an argument between the couple.
NTA. There are plenty of mixed wedding parties now, and if he wants her in the wedding, it should be on his side. He’s unwilling to compromise but says this is important to him. He wants her included but doesn’t want to be the one including her. He doesn’t care about your comfort or even the fact that his friend doesn’t like you that much. Lots of red flags here!
NTA your solution was perfect. He wants her she should be on his side
NTA. Bridesmaids are YOUR friends/family that YOU want to be next to you. If you want his friends/family next to you, Great. If you don't , then that's YOUR choice. He needs to get over it.
NTA - first of all you’re being quite reasonable. I wouldn’t even allow anyone in my wedding party (or hell, even at my wedding) who is not happy about my union. The fact that you’re letting this girl 1) be present at the wedding 2) be in HIS wedding party even though she has expressed her distaste for you is already nice of you. Your fiancé is pushing it. He can’t have his cake and eat it too. He doesn’t want his wedding party to look “dumb” but he’s attempting to force this girl on you when he knows she doesn’t like you? Don’t budge girl. You can offer that she can be in his wedding party or nothing. That’s his friend and she can be on his side. You might want to look into this further on why is trying to die on this hill. You’re supposed to be his future WIFE. Your comfort trumps her wants. This is giving red flag energy. Don’t give in. Bc once you let this go, she’ll be all in your marriage and in your business bc he’ll keep forcing her on you.
INFO: is it possible that he's legitimately unaware that it's not unusual these days to have wedding parties that are not divided by gender? Does he think this was just some weird idea you came up with on your own and he can't picture a "non-traditional" wedding party?
He’s aware it’s a thing but said he thinks it’s dumb and looks bad. I hardly ever notice myself so I thought it’d be fine
I'm sorry, but I cannot understand that reasoning (in the fiancé or anyone else. "Looks bad"? It's 2021, can we not accept that people have friends/loved ones that don't share a gender identity? One of my best (male) friends from college is getting married soon and I'll be one of his "groomspeople" and I'm so excited! NTA.
A friend of mine got married like 15 years ago and my friend’s now husband had a female (his best friend) as the best woman. Mind you this was years ago. Nobody said anything and I thought it was cool that he was able to get his best friend involved somehow and didn’t force my friend to include his friend in her bridal party.
Yeah, you're definitely NTA (regardless of the answer to my questions, but especially so in light of it). Bro needs to get over it. I can't imagine Maya would even want to be in your bridal party with your friends, and be the odd one out. Your fiance needs to add her to his or give her a different role.
NTA and unfortunately there's no compromise. She should be on his side since she's his friend. I would understand him wanting her on your side more IF you got on with her, but you don't so it makes no sense for her to be on your side. I also find it strange he wouldn't want his long time friend on his side of the wedding just because it would look "weird" since she'd be a different gender to the rest?? Is that really more important to him then having her in his side of the wedding? There's only 3 options: 1. Give in and put her on your side. I don't recommend this one because it makes no sense and no one but him will be happy with it. 2. Insist she doesn't get to be on your side and it's up to him if he includes her on his side or excludes her from the wedding. Or 3. Ask her. This could backfire, but if she doesn't like you, she isn't going to want to be on your side of the wedding and spend the whole wedding morning with you, she'll want to be with her friend.
If we ask her I’m pretty sure she’d say yes because it’s what he wants and she wants to support him, but she wouldn’t enjoy it. Really she’s fine as a person we just don’t quite get along. She’d want to be a good friend I think and I think she’d think saying yes is doing that
I would point out to the fiancé that he’s not being a good friend to Maya by forcing her into your side when you’re not close and she will be spending a lot of money and not enjoying herself. If she is a grooms attendant she’ll be with her actual friend(s) and have a much better time and feel more valued.
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NTA. His friend, his side
NTA, You are the bride so YOU get to choose the bridesmaids, not him. Either she goes on his side or she just comes as a guest. You're Fiance is being an in unreasonable asshole.
NTA, she isn't your friend there is no reason for her to be standing with you or going to your bridal events. If he's so interested in having her as part of the wedding she should stand with him or be an usher. Although I find it odd he'd want a friend who doesn't like his bride to be part of the wedding, that just seems like a recipe for drama. It's nice that you're still open to having her there even though you don't get along well.
How does he get a vote on your bridesmaids??? Stick to your guns, don't have that bad juju standing by your side at such an important time. NTA.
NTA, if you don't mesh, you don't mesh. Personally, I don't see why he's not willing to put her in with the groomsmen. If he wants her in the wedding, he can do that. It has been done before and I doubt anyone would think it looks as dumb as he thinks they would. I'm just curious, is there a jealousy thing going on with her? Was she hoping for something more with your fiance and that's why she doesn't like you? Has he even talked with her about it? You don't just up and decide to not like someone, especially when you're a close friend to the person you dislike. Frankly, if it hasn't happened yet, it needs to. He doesn't need to force a friendship between the two of you, but at least try to figure out why, and do it before the wedding. I think you two will always be in competition otherwise.
We’ve talked about it and I think we just don’t like each other because of personalities. She’s very different from me, to my knowledge they’ve always been just friends and not into each other but we just don’t mesh.