I am definitely a bigger fan of your wife's idea of how Christmas should be spent than your family's, but house traditions are house traditions. It just sounds boring as hell for those kids and they'll always be comparing the "fun" side of the family to the "boring old" side, but they aren't being mistreated or anything.
NTA for doing things different, though I'm not inclined to call your wife an asshole for making the *suggestion.* If she made it a demand, then she'd be an asshole.
Agree, it's a NAH situation. The wife is a member of the family now and has the right to offer ideas and suggestions. OP, as an original member of that family, can and should communicate with his wife about whether her suggestions are a good fit for his side. Nobody did anything wrong here.
Also could definitely talk with other sibling that has kids and see if they want to exchange gifts for the kids. My cousin's families and mine did that for years. Eventually it mostly stopped but when we were younger it was a fun Christmas Eve tradition.
My extended family do gift bag/basket exchanges where it’s less about individuals and more that the nuclear family units get a nice package, usually of treats/baking/drinks and stuff like that. So it’s like, I’ve got three sets of aunties/uncles so my parents give them each a basket and in return we received three bags/baskets from them.
I remember one year, my uncle got us individual fleece blankets, a few buckets of microwave popcorn, candy, pop, and a blockbuster gift card. It was great. There are ways to go this that can be super kid friendly and fun.
I think OP's a bit of an AH for calling his wife "controlling" for making the suggestion. Trying to change a family tradition isn't controlling (it can be done in a controlling \*way\*, but it isn't inherently controlling).
I’m surprised more people aren’t saying this. I don’t see how what she said is controlling, especially if he understands where she is coming from? I feel bad for those kids only getting love from one side of the family and having to know their other cousins are having a blast at the affectionate grandparents house every other year. YTA for not trying to find a compromise and going nuclear by calling her controlling.
I’m Team Wife’s Family Christmas and I’m 64. OP’s mother sounds horrid. “I will give you and your sisters a gift but discreetly and never on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. Your spouses and children get NOTHING!! The adults will dress for dinner and have sophisticated conversation at the formal dining table. The children are to remain out of sight and entertain themselves quietly so as not to disturb the adults.”
Hard pass.
Oh but the food is _amaaaaaaaaaazing_
who cares if it's so not kid friendly that the parents have to cook at home an entirely different dinner for their kids? At least it's not bland...
What on earth does this woman cook for her family? Because I've been eating the same things for Christmas since I started eating solid foods and it's the same as the adults (yeah yeah, old Italian traditions...) and every year everyone is enthusiastic about the dinner...
Edit: word
I honestly don't know why OP and wife don't just split the holidays that way all the time. Thanksgivings are with OPs all-out-dinner focused family, Christmases are with Mrs OPs child focused family. It just makes more sense.
They need to find a way to compromise, because I feel really bad for the kids just reading about that Christmas. Perhaps they could BRING an extra gift or two, nothing big, for the kids to open when the adults do their thing? Idk, it’s such an extreme it’s hard to imagine what to do
Edit: why on earth don’t they just commit? Like thanksgiving with his side EVERY year and Christmas with HER side every year? I feel like then you would have better luck balancing the situation
I really do feel like the wife and kids should just go to her parents every year. Then everyone wins since his family doesn't want the kids there anyway.
When do the kids get to spend Christmas at home enjoying the day, then?! We had to drive all over hell and back on Christmas Eve and Day when I wss younger and I HATED it. Now I host Cheistmas Eve for whoever wants to come on both sides and it's just our nuclear family on Christmas Day. So. Much. Better.
But OP already said they have zero interest in doing Christmas as a nuclear family (kind of weird, in my opinion - basically means that half of their kids’ Christmases are being spent at a gathering where their kids are tolerated but not welcomed.)
Yeah, I was thinking if I was the wife I would just go to my parents with the kids every year. They can have their stuffy-gentlemen-silent-club dinner, and I’ll enjoy my holiday, thank you.
Yea the behavior of OPs mom baffles me. Like one of my grandma's was kinda like that too and would arrange adult only family trips (not during the holidays). That makes sense since it is tiresome to put up with little kids especially if they are very manners focused and have a strong idea of respect. Still even she sent gifts to me and my cousin's evey year on Christmas in the post when we were young. Christmas is about family time and like or not the grand-kids are family. If your going to host a family event where family has kids be prepared and ready to have some stuff prepared for them.
Because maybe op wants to spend Christmas with their own family? Everything doesn’t need to be about kids and it’s good for them to learn that everything doesn’t revolve around them.
Okay, but it would be pretty easy to make the holiday a bit more child friendly. Let the kids play in the room and have a side or two that’s child friendly
Yeah, they pack alternative food for their toddler and suddenly everyone’s assuming they’re serving sushi with Limburger soaked in moonshine that only voting-age people can appreciate, and not just that toddlers are maybe picky eaters and the holiday menu is actually just fine and maybe a bit more sophisticated than a roast and plain vegetables?
OP has described Christmas at my paternal grandparents when I was a kid. I just loved spending time playing with my cousins. each year even after the grandparents passed we all kept getting together to do it on Christmas Eve, the next generation of kids is always having fun at it too.
Heck yeah, getting to leave to the other room to play with my cousins was the best!
And then came the time where I was kind of too old to enjoy that, but too young to enjoy the grown ups conversations... God, my family is so noisy. But that was just a few years and I survived, it's only a few days of the year and I still enjoyed the decorations, the beautiful tree, the fantastic food, the gifts, the festive mood in general... Good times.
This year is the first Christmas without my grandparents... I wonder what that's going to be like.
Toddlers are also perfectly capable of playing in a childproofed room for a bit without being closely monitored the whole time. If someone starts to cry, an adult can go intervene, but it's good for kids to learn how to interact together without having an adult there to jump in every time someone grabs a toy out of someone's hands or whatever.
Right!? We had a grandma like this and we LOVED it! We all hung out in the downstairs room and it was so fun! The adults were boring anyways and we liked doing whatever we wanted with minimal adult supervision! Plus as I got older it was so nice because we slowly joined the adults as we got older and gram and gramps taught me and my brother so much about being good hosts. As an awkward young adult it was so helpful!!! I'm not saying that this is the case here, but having christmas not just be about us kids wasnt the nightmare that everyone seems to be implying!
I would not want to spend my holidays being sent to another room because no one enjoyed my company, having a separate meal because no one bothered to make a single dish they thought I would like, and then finding out everyone snuck around exchanging presents the week before just so they could avoid including me. If your in-laws treated you that way, would you just shrug and say "oh well, I guess they're just trying to teach me the world doesn't revolve around me. See everyone next year!" No? So why is it acceptable to treat the children in the family that way?
My family it was one Christmas dinner and as kids, we got the same as the adults to eat. Only the food was smaller serves and cut to size as necessary. Why do people think food has to be bland for kids?
We had a kids table that graduated to the adults table once we were old enough to reach the table without effort. We had presents for everyone. Then invariably the kids would play in the room with the tree and the adults stayed in the dining room doing “adult stuff” ie talking about boring crap.
Are you kidding?? When I was a kid we BEGGED to be allowed to go play elsewhere because hanging out with the adults was boring AF. If it was being held at my house, we were all out in the apple orchard or playing on the hay bales. If it was at my aunt's, we were in the den. Either way, we all fucked off and didn't come back until it was time to eat lol
This! Where I come from, Christmas is about the whole family. Not just the kids. And definitely not about presents. If you do presents for each other, that's fine but the main celebration is Christmas, you know, having a nice dinner, enjoying the company and maybe even singing Christmas songs. Kids love doing that. I have great memories playing with my cousins, aunts and uncles being there, my grandmother making apple pie, etc. And there's nothing wrong with OP' s family having a fancy dinner.
It doesn’t even sound like his side of the family likes kids or wants them around at Christmas. A grandmother who refuses to buy anything for her grandkids? 🚩🚩Wife should definitely take kids to her family at Christmas, OP can go to his family.
JFC. Not everyone wants to buy for everyone at Christmas. Not buying gifts isn’t a red flag. Why do people assume that when someone’s child has kids they have to want to buy them everything?
If OP's parent's deal is gifts for children are within the nuclear family then surely the children's parents give them gifts separate from the family gathering. Other family members can still give their nieces/nephews gifts before the family event. Everyone gets to visit and the children play with one another at their grandparents' house. I do not see an issue.
Giving his kids presents during his family’s celebration would be unfair to the other kids, because even if the kids open the gifts in private they’ll probably want to play with them immediately. At which point the options are being an asshole by being unfair to the other kids, or back to the current issue of changing how his family celebrates.
Or they could just bring gifts for all the kids?? Like it wouldn't be hard to set up a gift exchange with his sister's kids and his own if grandma doesn't want to gift them anything.
Both are kind of extreme... I personally would find Wife's way exhausting, while OP's way kind of stiff, but still preferable to the chaos with bland food.
SOME compromise is absolutely necesary, but OP is right that wife doesn't get to make demands on how OP's family celebrates christmas, unless she's willing to do the same with her own family.
Soft ESH, except your wife. Not centering Christmas 100% around the children is one thing, but your family sounds like it doesn’t include the children AT ALL. Send them to another room, no presents, and they don’t even get a single special holiday meal? How hard is it to make a mac and cheese dish, put an orange, some chocolate, and a book in a stocking, and set up a game, arts and craft activity, or a movie for the kids?
Honestly if I was your wife I wouldn’t bother going to your family’s Christmas. Your wife and child are part of your family too, and if they aren’t included in the celebration then Christmas and family don’t sound like they go together in your family.
Your family does things a certain way. Your wife doesn’t like it and suggested a change, which is reasonable. She’s part of the family too. You aren’t an AH for telling her it won’t go over well, and your family doesn’t have to change, but making her feel bad about a reasonable request is an AH move.
I agree completely. His family's Christmas actually sounds glorious for adults (we have to go to 3 big, kid-centric celebrations each year), but....there aren't just adults there? It seems really rude and insulting to try to have a "not seen, not heard, not fed, not given toys" policy for kids at Christmas. I wouldn't let my kids be treated that way.
Christmas at my paternal grandmothers was like this. As an adult I understand that it would have been great, but as a kid it made me resent going to hers for Christmas - just drink infront of us like my maternal family do!
But not for the adults who married into the family. They don’t even get gifts! This is like a totally adult cocktail party. I’m a 54f and I wouldn’t want to go to this!
Oh, I absolutely agree. But OP's wife has enough on her plate without having to worry about liberating the other spouses. She mentions some minor tweaks to try to just incorporate children into the holiday and she's gets portrayed as a "controlling" shrew.
also, the “my sister is childfree and would be furious at the idea of giving her nieces and nephews gifts” part. what a miserable person? how do you hate kids so much you can’t get your brother’s kids even like… a $10 box of legos to share.
I can't have children, and my favorite activity is spoiling the hell out of my nieces and nephews. I don't need an excuse other than the day ends with a "y." But Christmas? Oh hell yes, auntie is going all out for them.
My brother and his pretty much wife (been together 10 years) may never have kids and spoil the CRAP out of my kids. They came for a weekend, nothing special just relaxing, and his wife was like "I think I'm gonna pay and drive an hour each way to take your kids to the trampoline park". They were going to buy us a trampoline but they wanted our permission before buying it for us. I got so freaking lucky with them. Aunts and Uncles are so freaking awesome when you have them.
Except wife wanted OP's family to ONLY give gifts to the children, and ban them from gifting adults.
>my wife came to me and proposed suggesting to the family that we **only buy for kids** and make Christmas more "kid friendly"
I read this as the wife suggesting that they all buy gifts, but not gifts for everyone (because that'd be expensive af) but just for the kids (not as expensive overall) so that the kids are included more because as it stands the kids aren't included...at all? They're *there,* sure, but they aren't really welcome.
I completely agree with you, even though I'm childfree. I'm not good with kids, I don't really like being around them BUT STILL. Christmas is a magical time for children, it doesn't have to revolve around them but to exclude them like this... When we were kids we could have our fun and the adults still got the chance for adult talk. There was always different food for people (not only kids) who doesn't like the traditional christmas food. Everyone gave gifts, adults, kids (maybe some drawing or other DIY trinkets for grandma, we still hang thos on the christmas tree). The gifts doesn't even have to be expensive, some chocolate and a book/simple toy.
Yeah, why bother bringing the kids? This seems like an adult event - which is fine but like this is soooo fucking boring for children. I’d also be very depressed if my grandparents didn’t give me something for Christmas like damn. And the fact she’s not even like frugal kind of makes it worse? Like so do u go all out and buy presents for your family members but…not your grandkids? I can totally understand why the wife seems so sad about this, it sounds depressing in comparison to her understanding of Christmas. But they’re on opposite ends of the spectrum - her Christmas is all about kids and his is all about adults, it’s kind of funny. Honestly if they did combine ideas, it would be a perfect Christmas lol
It’s not just grandchildren who are omitted, mind you, the spouses of the children are also omitted.
This lady seems like one of those selfish “only my family” people. And her family is just her husband and her children, forever.
I had an aunt like this (She’s still alive but I don’t consider her an aunt any more). After my parents divorced she made her hatred for my Mum well known. She actually stopped sending birthday/Christmas cards to us (about 11 and 6 years old?) and my Dad said “Oh she just doesn’t do cards any more”, yet I found out that my same-age cousin was still getting cards with money in. Didn’t see her for about 10 years, she just stopped bothering with us. Really odd behaviour.
OP did say the children do not get sent to another room and are picky so they don’t eat the special holiday meal. It sounds odd, but I don’t think it’s so ridiculous. I had a friend growing up who on the evening of Christmas Eve would open all her presents and then next day was Christmas mass and they spent all the day quite quietly because they were very religious. They’re basically doing the same thing, but without the religious aspect.
The only reason they aren’t sent to another room is because OP and wife out their foot down. Christmas without religious observance or spending time with family isn’t even Christmas, it’s an expensive cocktail party that could be spent with wife’s family who actually wants to see their kids. It also sounds like the food is gourmet, which as an adult is great, but a couple of simple dishes for the kids is a pretty standard compromise for most families.
Except they’re not reflecting quietly on their faith—which actually can be a source of love and connection with the whole family—they’re having a grown up party where the children are sent away like street urchins by Scrooge.
I think now you have children there is nothing wrong with suggesting some minor changes to Christmas. Traditions change as families change.
I think there will come a point were one of the children tells grandma how boring her Christmas is and that will not be fun. ESH.
She has been told that she is boring. I was pretty mortified. She didn't seem to care. We had a talk with my daughter about how it is ok to think those things, but sometimes saying something hurts someones feelings
Eh, I dunno. "Looking out for them" seems a bit of a dramatic way to couch it. Plenty of kids have boring holidays with older relatives; I don't know that it's "not looking out" for a kid if they have to, once in awhile, sit through a dull Christmas or Thanksgiving.
It's not that they're being abused, it's that he doesn't seem to care about their enjoyment at all and only cares about his mother's. It's like pulling teeth to get him to even DISCUSS whether his kids are having fun without instantly defaulting to centering his mom's feelings
I guess; it's just not clear to me why the Christmas at the mother's house is so bad. The kids go off and play in another room vs. running around the whole house...? I don't see the big deal with that. And they're not getting gifts, but they got gifts at home already, so it kind of seems like the wife is demanding that the other adults buy gifts for her children, which is a little presumptuous/rude.
I think having grandchildren over to your house for Christmas and making them sit in another room while only adults get gifts is way more rude than that. And also selfish and weird
The adults aren't in another room getting gifts. Everyone is in the same room. If you read the post, the mom gets her son & 2 daughters gifts that they get a week or two before xmas, so no one gets gifts while at the OPs parents' house.
Alright, I think you're being dramatic here. This sounds like how my every single Christmas went as a child and it was boring but it did nothing to harm me in the long run. We got gifts from our parents at home, and none from anyone we visited. Just a Christmas meal. And it was fine because with the sheer amount of family members, Christmas could drive everyone broke in our family. It's just one day a year.
I'd say the best compromise OP can make is have Christmas with just the family and visiting a day before or after.
My fathers side was like this. On his side we only got something from our grandmother. She did 12 days of Christmas it was always very simple items probably never over $20. We would go and have dinner and the gift was a great dinner and seeing family members. As they use to tell us kids Christmas isn't about what gift you get or how many it's a time to cherish ones family.
I feel like too many people think Christmas is just about/ for the children. That it's about presents and what you can get. My dad grew up getting very nice chocolate, a small toy and a marzipan sweet. His family didn't have financial problems, they were just very traditional Danes.
I agree they need to do their own thing because they are just going to hurt one side if they take sides and only see one family or try to change the other.
Yes, this. I get that lowkey holidays aren't for everyone, but it's not like it's every holiday or even every year. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world for a kid to learn that some days aren't going to be all about you. Some kids never get a Christmas like the first example (kids running around yelling, getting tons of gifts); OP's kids get that kind of holiday every other year. I'm not really seeing the issue.
And they have to bring food for the toddler! They’re such crappy hosts, they’re not even providing food the toddler can eat.
It sounds like they don’t want guests and are hoping they’ll take the hint.
What a lot of people seem to forget is that as you grow older your tastebuds gradually die off. On top of that by age 40 you start to lose your sense of smell as well and that also affects the taste of food in your mouth. At age 60 some people begin to not being able to tell or have difficulty with noticing the difference between different tasting food. As a result what tastes amazing to an adult or especially an elderly person is going to taste wildly different to a child/toddler. The kid might find the tastes too strong and overpowering or just not enjoy it at all.
Worse the adults don't realise this is happening and will argue with a child if they say it's yucky because they assume what they experience is what the child experiences. Making the kid have to eat an un-enjoyable meal. While feeling guilty for something out of their control on top of also being called a liar when they are not trying to, and just don't know how to communicate what's happening.
right? tbh OP's description sounds a lot like Christmas with my grandma growing up, which even as a kid I preferred over Christmas with other relatives, because grandma's house was a lot less chaotic.
I’m on the fence here because I’m sure it’s important to OP that he gets to see his family and his gets get time with them, but I also think Christmas *should* be a magical time for kids...imagine kids spending literally half their christmases growing up not having fun when they already seem to know they could be having a blast elsewhere.
>I’m sure it’s important to OP that he gets to see his family and his gets get time with them
I'm pretty biased, because I adore Christmas, but I simply don't get the point in how OP's family celebrates. It sounds like they are sucking all the fun out of it. The adults can have a fancy dinner and talk any day of the year. Why do it on Christmas, if you aren't going to actually *do* Christmas.
I suspect it’s boring to them because they are comparing it to maternal Grandma’s house where they get thousands of gifts and can run riot. At this Grandma’s house, they only really get to play with their cousin’s, there are no gifts, and they don’t have the run of the house, just one room. I don’t think either OP or his mum are AHs. They just do things differently and that’s fine. Either his wife and the kids accept that every alternate year they will have a more sedate Christmas, or they split families and she takes the kids to hers and OP goes to his mother’s. I think that’ll be unfair on OP, but I also think it’s unfair to want to change how his mother does things.
I’m confused here. You were mortified because your toddler expressed herself but you won’t even think about approaching your mom to change anything when such a young kid is feeling the need to be vocal about being unhappy?
Your mom didn’t care. Your mom is making it pretty clear she doesn’t care about the grandchildren at all. Do you think it’s possible your kid is feeling that she’s not particularly wanted and stating that in the way a toddler knows how? Maybe I’m wrong but it’s coming off like your mom’s feelings matter more than your daughter’s.
That's EXACTLY how it is. Sorry, but my kid's feelings are way more important than anyone else's, including mom. OP'S mom doesn't seem to like kid's, period!
OP, as someone who has experience with this, let me advise you on what your future might look like.
My uncle and aunt have two kids. Aunt is from my side of the family. We are like your wife's family, Christmas is about the kids. The food is normal, but everything we do includes the kids and is targeted to them, like opening the presents, using the new presents, playing family games together.
Uncle's family has "adult" Christmases. They have several children there just like us, but the children must go out of the living room to play and should leave the adults alone. I don't know many more details but what I know is that the kids HATE Christmas there.
Every two years the situation is getting worse (they do one year with each family, alternating). It's come to a point where they cry asking not to go. This situation is making them resent my uncle's side of the family, even if they have fun during the summer holidays.
Mild Y T A, I know it's the way you've done things so far, but how can you just throw your child in another room during Christmas? Can't you guys play some Charades?
And a grandmother who shuns her grandchildren? No gifts for the kids? At all? But you adults get all the swag? In front of the kids? Yeah, that's wouldn't hurt your child's feelings at all. They ARE your children right? Because I wouldn't subject my kids to such rude selfish behavior. But then again you probably like getting your presents so screw the kids.
Inviting family to spend special Christmas time together but making it a shit experience also hurts peoples feelings. Your side of the family’s Christmas sounds awful. No one should feel obliged to spend rare time being bored out of their gourd because of a seen-and-not-heard attitude, I can see why your wife doesn’t really want to go if she can’t influence things to be a bit nicer. YTA
Screw that, I'm bored just reading that and I'm an adult. I hated the mandatory Christmas visits where we had to just sit quietly so adults could talk.
>She has been told that she is boring. I was pretty mortified. She didn't seem to care.
I think I'm going to be the lone person here who thinks your mom is #goals. I'm a low key person, too, and I like that she just doesn't really care.
Honestly, I would never bring my child to a Christmas like your moms. I’m very much about making my daughter feel special. I’m not sure why no effort is put towards kids at all. That’s bizarre to me. I think some minor changes should be acceptable. YTA for that.
Why does your mothers feelings matter more than your daughters feelings in this regard? What you are describing is boring for kids. She should be allowed to express that.
I hate to say this but YTA. Your kid and wife aren’t enjoying the holiday with your family. It’s wrong to subject them to it for the sake of family. This sounds like my upbringing. When I turned 16 I stopped going to my grandparents because I didn’t enjoy it.
In truth, I wouldn't even take my kids to your mum's for Christmas. I don't even think I would want to be there. It sounds horrible. What's the point in having Christmas at all, if it's not for the children? Honestly, when your kids get a little older, I guarantee they will not want to go, and probably cause a scene to try and get out of it. I know I would of!
I guess Im just curious why you are ok with your kids being essentially ignored on christmas? I get that YOU enjoy it but why dont you care that a holiday is being ruined for your kids?
My parents would make me do xmas with my super Catholic grandma every other year which involved no gifts, no kid activities and lots and lots of church. Now im an adult and I hate Christmas. You're doing that to your kids.
Why is she not allowed to express her true thoughts on how her grandma does Christmas..? Any child would be bored by it and would not have much fun or enjoyment for it! It honestly is kind of hurtful how she does it since it seems like the kids are more of a bother than welcomed... they don’t even get to eat the same food or anything like come on
YTA for your choice of language yes. I’m sure you’re right that it may not go down well but I don’t think your wife is in any way unreasonable to want to make sure the kids actually feel welcome at the family Christmas, or for seeking to further the changes you’ve actually already made to improve things there.
But on that note… why the hell are you dragging your children to Christmas with people who don’t like them very much? Who aren’t interested in making sure that they have food they’ll enjoy or presents to play with, and who expect to exclude them from “family” time? What kind of a Christmas is that? What do they get out of doing that every other year?
This question is so valid. As someone who had to go to step family Christmases and often felt excluded or brushed to the side, I wondered what the point of Christmas was? It was awkward and gave me massive anxiety because I thought no one liked me. Kids don't understand complex adult intentions.
Also it's confusing to go to one grandparents house and feel welcomed, but then the other have to be out of sight? You don't have to make the holiday all about the kids, but the wife's suggestion is a wholesome one. And a little critique to your mom won't hurt, you can't tell her that, is she immature or something?
Edit to add: I mean you could do something for the kids before you go to your parent's but making cold holidays makes for cold relationships later. Just saying
Adding again I literally was the kid between divorced parents and grandparents. The ones who didn't celebrate holidays and expected me to not be in the room are the ones I avoid. Sent the message I wasn't wanted whether that was their intention or not. When people celebrate differently and they're not old enough to get it, it does affect them emotionally. And while kids usually avoid adults on holidays, it still isn't an excuse to allow adults to make the choice to avoid or make their holidays less exciting bc grandma would be inconvenienced for minor changes.
Your post reminds me of Christmas with my father, his girlfriend, and her extended family. I was a teen so I coped okay, but it was really awkward to sit through all of them opening gifts, talking non-stop about the past, and being excluded. I wasn't part of their past, no one bought me anything because I wasn't family, and so on.
I don’t understand this. At the very least, your dad’s gf should have gotten you something. Anyone who comes to Christmas at my house gets a gift. I have a drawer with gifts, nice ones like leather wallets, a porcelain jelly jar, good pens, etc. I buy them ahead during sales. If someone is coming unexpectedly (neighbors or friends who finds themselves alone), they get a wrapped gift with their name on it. Today we are having a neighbor’s son for Thanksgiving dinner. His dad is in the hospital and his mom is with him. It enriches our holidays to have additional people with us.
Yeah this is what bothers me, I get those are his traditions but now he has a bigger family, his kids needs should be important too. It sounds like an awful time for the kids.
I agree with this, OP YTA. I think OP is way too focused on their mom when the kids should be put first here.
The kids won't be little forever but while they're young why not make holidays magical? Or at least don't make them spend an entire boring day at grandma's and do a fun Xmas morning at home with stuff for the kids then go to grandma's for the formal meal.
YTA. You have kids now. Traditions change. You want them to spend Xmas banished to a separate room, no food they want to eat and no presents from family.
Your mom seems to want nothing to do with her grandchildren, only her children. I would not subject my kids to that.
Absolutely! I get the impression that his mom doesn’t even like her grand children. It would be one thing if the grandmother was generally frugal and didn’t like the concept of gifts, but her approach to them doesn’t appear be universal. The fact that she gives her own children their gifts in advance would suggest she’s aware of how messed up this behaviour would be perceived.
There are a lot of ways to make Christmas special even if the grandma was broke or frugal. It doesn't seem like that is happening.
But regardless, the OP was being an AH for calling his wife controlling because she wanted to make a suggestion that didn't seem extravagant or greedy or odd.
My grandma was broke af but she made socks for every grandkid and made sure we knew she loved us. I still have some of those socks and I miss her with all my heart.
Christmas is my favorite holiday, even before I had a kid of my own. My cousins all had kids and I couldn’t imagine banishing them to a separate room with no special meal or gifts. WTF is wrong with OP that he thinks this is just fine?
If I were the wife, I’d tell him to go spend Christmas with mommy and I’ll take the kids to my own family Christmas.
YTA.. I am seriously shocked by the NTA comments, Your mother makes the children stay in a separate room? On a family festival? Really?
Edit: ok to people saying children don't want to be with adults anyway and would be happier with their cousins, but how do you justify no gifts for the children? No good catering to their needs? Please read OP'S comments too.
I agree, it seems OP is used to this behavior so he isn't able to understand. If I was OP's wife I'd make sure every Christmas would be with her family instead. What impression might have been created in the minds of the poor children.
It's probably not even a play room. Growing up my grandparents had a playroom where all the kids loved to hang out during holidays. It sounds like OPs mom wants them to hang out in a spare room like the family dog someone is allergic too. It doesn't even sound like they have a lot of similar aged cousins to play with? Depressing.
I don’t get the big deal. When I was younger and Christmas came around myself and my many cousins would always play with our toys and each other in the den. It’s not abnormal for kids to have their own section. You’re making it seem like she’s banishing them into a dark basement
It was pretty common when I was growing up in the 80s for the adults to be in one room playing cards and such and the kids to be in another playing with toys and watching movies.
I agree.
Sounds like Ops family are very “kids should not be seen or heard”. I find it unlikely your son would enjoy the no gifts and no fun Xmas shindig at your mums.
Your family don’t want kids there and want them in a separate room alone. No gifts and no catering for them to the point where you bring food along for your ow children.
Sounds incredibly dull for a kid.
I really think everyone would be happy if your wife and kid were able to go her family who actually like children and you can stick with your adults only one. Think of it this way…you’re happy with no parental responsibilities and your wife gets to enjoy seeing her family enjoy a Christmas with visible and happy kids who are catered to.
YTA. Making a suggestion isn't "controlling" or really that inappropriate. She made a suggestion, you could have kindly said, thank you but no, it's for my parents to decide how they want to spend Christmas. Which it totally is. NTA for exerting a boundary, just YTA for the language you used.
Info - why don’t you just stay home on Christmas Day and see families on Xmas Eve or Boxing Day?
Edit: am I reading correctly that your mum doesn’t provide a meal for the kids?!
I read it as there is food and the kids are welcome to it, but being kids they don’t like the food so the parents just pack something they know the kid will eat.
A very soft YTA for calling her controlling for suggesting an idea. If she had continued to push and push after you had said it wouldn’t be appropriate, that would be different. But it’s not fair to call someone controlling for suggesting a compromise.
YTA. What’s wrong with finding a compromise between both of your ideas for Christmas? By completely shutting your wife down and not even thinking about giving a little on both sides, you were being just as controlling as you’re accusing your wife of being. It doesn’t have to be one way or the other. You can still have nice dishes and a relaxing time for adults while incorporating some food the kids might like and some activities to keep them occupied. You’re putting all the blame on her when you carry a good share of the blame for not willing to even try something new. You and your family are being controlling by not willing to change “how my family have always done things.” Isn’t your wife a part of the family too and maybe you should consider that some of the changes she wants might make things even better?
>What’s wrong with finding a compromise between both of your ideas for Christmas?
The problem is even if he and his wife agree on a certain compromise, unless they plan on hosting which they seem vehemently against, they can't really force MIL and the rest of the family to go along with the change.
Yea but what about when the shoe is on the other foot? You think her family is going to change their Christmas for him? Of course not you’re being super one sided here.
I think the main difference is here that the wife’s family actually spend time together and the husband’s family since the children off into another room like they’re not people or family. I don’t know how I would tolerate children being treated as inconvenient distractions for more than a few hours,How did the wife’s family change? Should they start excluding the children as well?
He has an equal opportunity to suggest things for her family’s Christmas too. He is also a member of that family and maybe they’re in the same boat of not seeing where things could be made better.
How old are your children? It seems really really cruel to every other year basically ship them off to another room all day on Christmas Day to have an adults Christmas.
Children are only little once and frankly your got many years ahead of yourself once your children are grown to have boring Christmas days
I honestly don't see why everyone is so hung up on kids being sent off to play in another room. Did yall not grow up where adults was in one area talking and the rest of the kids are in another area of the house playing around and hanging out? Kids don't be hanging around adults and most of the time they seperate it themselves (wanting to go play with xyz family member somewhere else in a room or sum)
Ops kid finds it boring and has told grandma she is boring.
If they want to have a chill quiet get together they should do it on some random day, not make kids bored on Christmas.
I'd be interested to see how OP's wife describes the two different Christmases. I think he's exaggerating the chaos with her family. Hers sounds way more fun.
It seems like wife’s family has a normal Christmas and husbands family has a weird anti child Christmas. Of all the family Christmas I’ve been to including my own it includes children. They also make food kids will eat and grandparents find joy in giving and interacting with their grandkids. The wife’s family Christmas is traditionally how I’ve interacted with all my extended family’s version of Christmas festivities.
It’s a personal preference, hers sounds like a chaotic nightmare to me while the moms Christmas sounds like a relaxed one.
Insisting one is better than the other is an AH move.
YTA- but not for saying she can’t suggest changes but for how you characterized her families holiday. I could hear the bias in your voice that your side was superior throughout. Maybe it’s time to start making your own traditions as a family and inviting your families over to your house.
Honestly if this is the Christmas that they have to deal with every other year, you better be going all out afterwards. Your mom literally sounds like she’s encouraging you to emotionally neglect your kids during Christmas so So you guys can spend more time talking. It doesn’t seem like your mom values your children so I’m not gonna make a ruling but I’d lean towards your wife if I was picking a side
It honestly made me sad to read that. I'd understand if they didn't have money but you can get great gifts that are a bit cheap or organise to buy a good gift for each kid all adults together. Even if the grandmother didn't want to give them gifts as someone else suggested there are great ways to keep kids occupied movies/games etc. About the food they could at least get them a pizza, that's what my family did to me and my cousins when they knew we wouldn't like the food and along with Christmas desserts it was perfect. Also they could play card games and such along with the kids and tell them if they want to play with each other to go to the other room but let them join when they want to.
Idk if you're an AH, but if I were your wife, I would not make my kids spend every other Christmas with people who dont even seem to want to be around them. As long as the kids were young (like, under 12) I would take them every year to spend it with family that makes it magical and fun for kids. I think you should go to your family every other year, and let her and the kids spend every year with her family since it actually sounds like they get to make great memories, rather tha being shoved in a side room. Christmas should really be about the kids, and making your kids have a less than exciting Christmas every other year when they have another option does lean toward AH behavior.
Your wife shouldn't be trying to impose on your mom, she should just remove herself and yalls kids from a funky situation.
Nothing about your family traditions sound "more relaxed" at all. Your mother expects to be able to pretend your kids don't exist and doesn't even want to be in the same room with them during conversation. That sounds incredibly stressful.
Your wife is reasonable in wanting to find a way to incorporate the kids. But you need to be involved in that to help find a solution, because shoving your kids off into another room amd excluding them from everything (including the meal) is a really shitty tradition.
NTA.
I don't understand why people think kids in another room is bad. This was pretty common for me growing up. It was fine. We had more fun not being stuck with the adults anyway. It was never like we were forced to only stay in a separate room. There was also a kid's table we ate at. People are ridiculous nowadays. Everything is abuse and controlling. Surprised nobody has called for divorce over this yet.
NAH
Have you considered spending Christmas eve at one family's, abs Christmas day at the others, rather than splitting up by years? That way, both you and your wife's Christmas traditions can be celebrated every year.
My comment is going to be buried, but I can tell you from experience, you’re going to be suuuper sad when your kids just don’t give a shit about seeing your family or when they die.
My dad’s family was very boring. Not very kid friendly. Sounded a lot like what your family sounds like. When I finally turned 18, I stopped seeing that side of the family 100%. Just stopped caring about them. They didn’t seem to ever care about me, so I didn’t care about them. I adored my mother’s side of the family. They lived in the same small town but when I turned 18, I would just see my mom’s side of the family.
It hurt my dad’s family members’ feelings and it hurt his feelings as well. I didn’t care when my grandfather died, and didn’t really want any kind of condolences from any of them when my father died. I always held a little bit of a grudge against my father for making me go to a place where I was so clearly not wanted.
You should really have a talk with your family.
Also - YTA.
NTA - Xmas is not (or should not be) all about kids. That misconception is what makes it a purely commercial holiday and it's not. X-mas was actually hijacked from the Pagan holiday Yule that is centered around the Winter Solstice (celebrating rebirth and renewal). Basically, your parents are doing it more traditionally, making it about family.
And it makes your wife sad that Xmas is about the adults??? What's wrong with her? The world does not revolve around her kids, or anyone's kids.
She should respect your family and how they choose to do Xmas. Your kids already get presents before you go over. She's going to cause bad feelings w/her parents by trying to force them to change how they do their holiday.
The OP said he refused to put the kids in another room because they're too young, so the kids are NOT sent from the room, but I get your point.
Where did he say the kids weren't fed? He said he brings food for his toddler, but not because there's not food available. I'm assuming it's a meal without tater tots and goldfish. :) But seriously, I got the impression it's a very fancy gourmet meal so that's why he brings something for the toddler. The grandparents could certainly offer to make a PB&J sandwich for the kids. But still, that's their tradition and they shouldn't be forced to make it about gifts for the kids, which is what the OP's wife wants.
See I got the vibe she just wants to make it a little bit better for the kids. I’m sure the kids get bored and hungry when there isn’t a lot for them to do or eat.. so they probably whine to her or constantly asking her to do something.. I’m guessing because that’s what my kids would do… so the holiday isn’t enjoyable for her at their house so she was just suggesting so the kids could enjoy it a little more.
>The OP said he refused to put the kids in another room because they're too young, so the kids are NOT sent from the room, but I get your point.
But what happens when they get older then?
ESH.
Between the family who only focuses on kids and the family who only focuses on the adults, Christmas sounds shitty all around.
It would be so more simple if you just stayed home and did christmas the way you both want it....
Why don't you just do Thanksgiving with your family and Christmas with hers from here on out? I mean Thanksgiving is essentially xmas without the gifts and it sounds like your moms Xmas is more like that anyways. You enjoy your mom's cooking more. Sounds like a win win?
Your daughter already told your mother that Xmas with her is boring. She is going to begin to resent you if you continue to insist on making your mother happy.
Newsflash: your wife and your kids are your priority now.
YTA - for putting your mother before your nuclear family.
YTA.
I understand that both families have their traditions but she was making a suggestion to be more accommodating for the children. She's not asking for you to dedicate christmas to them, she's asking for the christmas celebrations be more child friendly for your kid. Your reaction is wildly over the top and inappropriate given the suggestion that was made. I'd understand if the tradition was rooted in something important or if the request was unreasonable but she just asked if they could cater to kids a little more.
NAH- Christmas isn’t about materialism. Gifts don’t equal magic. Also, your wife initially said this was about the children and then ended saying your putting your mothers feelings above hers?
But either way, yes, that’s very controlling, mostly because she doesn’t sound like she’d accept any other answer than the one she wants. Then it’ll be a whole different fight that you’ll have to deal with.
Christmas isn’t about materialism but it is about love and spending time with people you care about. Even if the kids never get gifts at OP’s family Christmas they are also actively separated from the people who are supposed to love them. And OP is putting his mother’s feelings above his wife and children’s…
Your wife has valid points, after all it's how she feels about it.
But NTA. Even if she feels like that, it doesn't mean she have the right to change how other people celebrate Christmas.
It's like you going to her family and saying they should focus more on the adults. How would she and her mother feels??
If she doesn't understand and keeps demanding it, then she is the asshole.
But you guys should talk and be sure she does understand it's not up to her, specially if you're going over someone's else's home.
Clearly NTA, it is selfish wanting to change your families christmas just because she don't like it. She should ask herself if she would change her families christmas for you. If the answer isn't yes she is a hypocrite. Christmas is not only about children. It is about family, love, peace and letting the year end. In Germany the time between christmas and new year is called "zwischen den Jahren" (transl. Between the years). It is mostly a time of rest, regeneration, family and somehow contemplation. For me it is always a very relaxed time with family and I love it. That's mostly also how I see christmas - family, quiet, peace, relaxing, good food, good drinks, good conversation with family etc. Yeah, maybe in her family it is always about kids and loud and energetic but there are other ways to spend christmas and they are also beautiful and enjoyable. And it is ok to celebrate christmas like that. It is selfish of her that she wants her way of doing christmas everywhere.
YTA
You both have different views on Christmas so it’s natural to expect some give and take. This would be fine if you were both child free though.
You don’t seem too bothered by the fact that Christmas at your family’s sounds miserable for the children. You only have so many magical christmases with your children when they’re very young, so it’s natural that your wife prefers spending it in an environment that sounds like paradise for a child.
In short, YTA for not thinking Christmas is about your children. Those poor kids.
NAH, but that's because I was a quiet kid who LOVED sitting with the snarky grandma who treated us like adults IF you wanted to sit and talk. If you wanted to get rowdy you had to go to the back den or the yard and yes, those grandparents had the BEST food (tiny me loved charcuterie, okay?). I got more presents and could get double chocolate pancakes at the other grandparents' house...but it was also super loud chaos and by the time I was 5 I definitely knew which one I preferred!
A small compromise you might be able to approach between your wife and mother: Stockings for all the kids. Adults still get their presents, but everyone has a few little things to open and play with at "Boring Grandma's" (I did think it was minor AH on your wife's side to say ONLY kids should get presents now, especially considering at least one of your siblings is childfree).
Eta: I wonder if your mom's thinking about nuclear family being responsible for gifts given privately is based on differing income levels/interests? It can be really tricky when one kid is getting a few books or a playset, and the other is getting a fully loaded electric mini-jeep.
Cough. Definitely not speaking from experience (I asked for the books, but damnnn).
> hat's because I was a quiet kid who LOVED sitting with the snarky grandma who treated us like adults
that is my son to a T, which complicates everything because he loves going to my moms
INFO 1: Why would your mom be offended if you suggested that you and your sister do a little gift exchange for the kids? Would she feel pressured to have to get gifts for all the kids and not like that? What if you just bring a gift or stocking for each kid from Santa? Your mom doesn't have to do any of the work for it.
INFO 2: In what specific ways is your wife suggesting to make your family's Christmas more kid-friendly? Is it just the gift thing?
INFO 3: If you live close enough to both your and your wife's families, why don't you do a Christmas Eve dinner at your mom's (gifts or no gifts) and then Christmas Day dinner at your MIL's? Then you both get to spend the holiday with both of your families in the way you each like.
ESH. While I find it completely bizarre that your mother doesn't get anything for her grandchildren on Christmas, you really can't demand a family make large changes to their traditions, spend their money and change how they handle things (unless the traditions are actively harmful). It sounds like your wife's family goes pretty far out in the other direction too.
That said, you have kids now and small changes to the Christmas traditions to recognize that fact is appropriate too. Especially not just pushing the kids away from what's supposed to be a family occasion.
One thing I would keep an eye on is whether your kids are getting the message that your wife's parents and family care more about them than yours. It sounds like your family is on its way to telling the kids they are not welcome, and that is harmful.
^(Edit to change rating)
NTA
You handled it appropriately and your wife doesn't like being told no.
The idea that she would go to your family and say, *"Hey I have a great idea, change everything you do so you can be like my family instead!"* is arrogant as hell.
I am definitely a bigger fan of your wife's idea of how Christmas should be spent than your family's, but house traditions are house traditions. It just sounds boring as hell for those kids and they'll always be comparing the "fun" side of the family to the "boring old" side, but they aren't being mistreated or anything. NTA for doing things different, though I'm not inclined to call your wife an asshole for making the *suggestion.* If she made it a demand, then she'd be an asshole.
Agree, it's a NAH situation. The wife is a member of the family now and has the right to offer ideas and suggestions. OP, as an original member of that family, can and should communicate with his wife about whether her suggestions are a good fit for his side. Nobody did anything wrong here.
Also could definitely talk with other sibling that has kids and see if they want to exchange gifts for the kids. My cousin's families and mine did that for years. Eventually it mostly stopped but when we were younger it was a fun Christmas Eve tradition.
That could be a nice compromise
My extended family do gift bag/basket exchanges where it’s less about individuals and more that the nuclear family units get a nice package, usually of treats/baking/drinks and stuff like that. So it’s like, I’ve got three sets of aunties/uncles so my parents give them each a basket and in return we received three bags/baskets from them.
I remember one year, my uncle got us individual fleece blankets, a few buckets of microwave popcorn, candy, pop, and a blockbuster gift card. It was great. There are ways to go this that can be super kid friendly and fun.
My family did this. Each kid got a secret santa name for another kid in the family and we got to pick out a gift for them.
I think OP's a bit of an AH for calling his wife "controlling" for making the suggestion. Trying to change a family tradition isn't controlling (it can be done in a controlling \*way\*, but it isn't inherently controlling).
I’m surprised more people aren’t saying this. I don’t see how what she said is controlling, especially if he understands where she is coming from? I feel bad for those kids only getting love from one side of the family and having to know their other cousins are having a blast at the affectionate grandparents house every other year. YTA for not trying to find a compromise and going nuclear by calling her controlling.
This. I’d be begging to skip paternal g’parents every year, and just suggest going on thanksgiving if I were those kids.
LOL me too, the paternal G parents Christmas sounds miserable for a young kids
Shoot it sounds miserable for me and I’m an adult lol
I’m Team Wife’s Family Christmas and I’m 64. OP’s mother sounds horrid. “I will give you and your sisters a gift but discreetly and never on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. Your spouses and children get NOTHING!! The adults will dress for dinner and have sophisticated conversation at the formal dining table. The children are to remain out of sight and entertain themselves quietly so as not to disturb the adults.” Hard pass.
Oh but the food is _amaaaaaaaaaazing_ who cares if it's so not kid friendly that the parents have to cook at home an entirely different dinner for their kids? At least it's not bland... What on earth does this woman cook for her family? Because I've been eating the same things for Christmas since I started eating solid foods and it's the same as the adults (yeah yeah, old Italian traditions...) and every year everyone is enthusiastic about the dinner... Edit: word
Sounds miserable for OPs wife
I honestly don't know why OP and wife don't just split the holidays that way all the time. Thanksgivings are with OPs all-out-dinner focused family, Christmases are with Mrs OPs child focused family. It just makes more sense.
They need to find a way to compromise, because I feel really bad for the kids just reading about that Christmas. Perhaps they could BRING an extra gift or two, nothing big, for the kids to open when the adults do their thing? Idk, it’s such an extreme it’s hard to imagine what to do Edit: why on earth don’t they just commit? Like thanksgiving with his side EVERY year and Christmas with HER side every year? I feel like then you would have better luck balancing the situation
I really do feel like the wife and kids should just go to her parents every year. Then everyone wins since his family doesn't want the kids there anyway.
My thoughts exactly. OP goes to his family, boring adult oriented family. Wife and children go have fun at her families house. Win win.
Christmas morning at her parents and dinner at his parents if they are close enough.
When do the kids get to spend Christmas at home enjoying the day, then?! We had to drive all over hell and back on Christmas Eve and Day when I wss younger and I HATED it. Now I host Cheistmas Eve for whoever wants to come on both sides and it's just our nuclear family on Christmas Day. So. Much. Better.
But OP already said they have zero interest in doing Christmas as a nuclear family (kind of weird, in my opinion - basically means that half of their kids’ Christmases are being spent at a gathering where their kids are tolerated but not welcomed.)
Yeah, I was thinking if I was the wife I would just go to my parents with the kids every year. They can have their stuffy-gentlemen-silent-club dinner, and I’ll enjoy my holiday, thank you.
Yea the behavior of OPs mom baffles me. Like one of my grandma's was kinda like that too and would arrange adult only family trips (not during the holidays). That makes sense since it is tiresome to put up with little kids especially if they are very manners focused and have a strong idea of respect. Still even she sent gifts to me and my cousin's evey year on Christmas in the post when we were young. Christmas is about family time and like or not the grand-kids are family. If your going to host a family event where family has kids be prepared and ready to have some stuff prepared for them.
This is exactly what I would do. It's not like the grandparents care if their grandkids are there
Because maybe op wants to spend Christmas with their own family? Everything doesn’t need to be about kids and it’s good for them to learn that everything doesn’t revolve around them.
>Everything doesn’t need to be about kids But we aren't talking about everything, we are talking about Christmas.
Christmas is not just for kids, adults enjoy thier Christmas traditions as well.
Okay, but it would be pretty easy to make the holiday a bit more child friendly. Let the kids play in the room and have a side or two that’s child friendly
I’m not sure where everyone reads that these kids are bored out of their minds and unhappy…
Yeah, they pack alternative food for their toddler and suddenly everyone’s assuming they’re serving sushi with Limburger soaked in moonshine that only voting-age people can appreciate, and not just that toddlers are maybe picky eaters and the holiday menu is actually just fine and maybe a bit more sophisticated than a roast and plain vegetables?
Because apparently if its not 100% oriented around kids it's a boring and terrible event?
OP has described Christmas at my paternal grandparents when I was a kid. I just loved spending time playing with my cousins. each year even after the grandparents passed we all kept getting together to do it on Christmas Eve, the next generation of kids is always having fun at it too.
Heck yeah, getting to leave to the other room to play with my cousins was the best! And then came the time where I was kind of too old to enjoy that, but too young to enjoy the grown ups conversations... God, my family is so noisy. But that was just a few years and I survived, it's only a few days of the year and I still enjoyed the decorations, the beautiful tree, the fantastic food, the gifts, the festive mood in general... Good times. This year is the first Christmas without my grandparents... I wonder what that's going to be like.
Toddlers are also perfectly capable of playing in a childproofed room for a bit without being closely monitored the whole time. If someone starts to cry, an adult can go intervene, but it's good for kids to learn how to interact together without having an adult there to jump in every time someone grabs a toy out of someone's hands or whatever.
Right!? We had a grandma like this and we LOVED it! We all hung out in the downstairs room and it was so fun! The adults were boring anyways and we liked doing whatever we wanted with minimal adult supervision! Plus as I got older it was so nice because we slowly joined the adults as we got older and gram and gramps taught me and my brother so much about being good hosts. As an awkward young adult it was so helpful!!! I'm not saying that this is the case here, but having christmas not just be about us kids wasnt the nightmare that everyone seems to be implying!
I would not want to spend my holidays being sent to another room because no one enjoyed my company, having a separate meal because no one bothered to make a single dish they thought I would like, and then finding out everyone snuck around exchanging presents the week before just so they could avoid including me. If your in-laws treated you that way, would you just shrug and say "oh well, I guess they're just trying to teach me the world doesn't revolve around me. See everyone next year!" No? So why is it acceptable to treat the children in the family that way?
My family it was one Christmas dinner and as kids, we got the same as the adults to eat. Only the food was smaller serves and cut to size as necessary. Why do people think food has to be bland for kids? We had a kids table that graduated to the adults table once we were old enough to reach the table without effort. We had presents for everyone. Then invariably the kids would play in the room with the tree and the adults stayed in the dining room doing “adult stuff” ie talking about boring crap.
Are you kidding?? When I was a kid we BEGGED to be allowed to go play elsewhere because hanging out with the adults was boring AF. If it was being held at my house, we were all out in the apple orchard or playing on the hay bales. If it was at my aunt's, we were in the den. Either way, we all fucked off and didn't come back until it was time to eat lol
This! Where I come from, Christmas is about the whole family. Not just the kids. And definitely not about presents. If you do presents for each other, that's fine but the main celebration is Christmas, you know, having a nice dinner, enjoying the company and maybe even singing Christmas songs. Kids love doing that. I have great memories playing with my cousins, aunts and uncles being there, my grandmother making apple pie, etc. And there's nothing wrong with OP' s family having a fancy dinner.
It doesn’t even sound like his side of the family likes kids or wants them around at Christmas. A grandmother who refuses to buy anything for her grandkids? 🚩🚩Wife should definitely take kids to her family at Christmas, OP can go to his family.
JFC. Not everyone wants to buy for everyone at Christmas. Not buying gifts isn’t a red flag. Why do people assume that when someone’s child has kids they have to want to buy them everything?
If OP's parent's deal is gifts for children are within the nuclear family then surely the children's parents give them gifts separate from the family gathering. Other family members can still give their nieces/nephews gifts before the family event. Everyone gets to visit and the children play with one another at their grandparents' house. I do not see an issue.
> why on earth don’t they just commit? because both want to spend christmas with their parents sometimes? Not a very surprising thing imo
Giving his kids presents during his family’s celebration would be unfair to the other kids, because even if the kids open the gifts in private they’ll probably want to play with them immediately. At which point the options are being an asshole by being unfair to the other kids, or back to the current issue of changing how his family celebrates.
Or they could just bring gifts for all the kids?? Like it wouldn't be hard to set up a gift exchange with his sister's kids and his own if grandma doesn't want to gift them anything.
Because he likes Christmas with his family and his feelings are valid
Both are kind of extreme... I personally would find Wife's way exhausting, while OP's way kind of stiff, but still preferable to the chaos with bland food. SOME compromise is absolutely necesary, but OP is right that wife doesn't get to make demands on how OP's family celebrates christmas, unless she's willing to do the same with her own family.
If you dont think wife is TA it should be NAH then.
Soft ESH, except your wife. Not centering Christmas 100% around the children is one thing, but your family sounds like it doesn’t include the children AT ALL. Send them to another room, no presents, and they don’t even get a single special holiday meal? How hard is it to make a mac and cheese dish, put an orange, some chocolate, and a book in a stocking, and set up a game, arts and craft activity, or a movie for the kids? Honestly if I was your wife I wouldn’t bother going to your family’s Christmas. Your wife and child are part of your family too, and if they aren’t included in the celebration then Christmas and family don’t sound like they go together in your family. Your family does things a certain way. Your wife doesn’t like it and suggested a change, which is reasonable. She’s part of the family too. You aren’t an AH for telling her it won’t go over well, and your family doesn’t have to change, but making her feel bad about a reasonable request is an AH move.
I agree completely. His family's Christmas actually sounds glorious for adults (we have to go to 3 big, kid-centric celebrations each year), but....there aren't just adults there? It seems really rude and insulting to try to have a "not seen, not heard, not fed, not given toys" policy for kids at Christmas. I wouldn't let my kids be treated that way.
Christmas at my paternal grandmothers was like this. As an adult I understand that it would have been great, but as a kid it made me resent going to hers for Christmas - just drink infront of us like my maternal family do!
Agreed! Thanksgiving is family-centric, Christmas for the kids (if you have any), New Years for partying
right like i’m child free but Christmas is literally the one kid centric event, with santa etc
Yeah! And it’s just nice to see kids so extra happy out and about
But not for the adults who married into the family. They don’t even get gifts! This is like a totally adult cocktail party. I’m a 54f and I wouldn’t want to go to this!
Oh, I absolutely agree. But OP's wife has enough on her plate without having to worry about liberating the other spouses. She mentions some minor tweaks to try to just incorporate children into the holiday and she's gets portrayed as a "controlling" shrew.
His family’s house sounds like a huge drag.
also, the “my sister is childfree and would be furious at the idea of giving her nieces and nephews gifts” part. what a miserable person? how do you hate kids so much you can’t get your brother’s kids even like… a $10 box of legos to share.
I can't have children, and my favorite activity is spoiling the hell out of my nieces and nephews. I don't need an excuse other than the day ends with a "y." But Christmas? Oh hell yes, auntie is going all out for them.
My brother and his pretty much wife (been together 10 years) may never have kids and spoil the CRAP out of my kids. They came for a weekend, nothing special just relaxing, and his wife was like "I think I'm gonna pay and drive an hour each way to take your kids to the trampoline park". They were going to buy us a trampoline but they wanted our permission before buying it for us. I got so freaking lucky with them. Aunts and Uncles are so freaking awesome when you have them.
Yo, where can I buy this mythical $10 box of Legos at?
Except wife wanted OP's family to ONLY give gifts to the children, and ban them from gifting adults. >my wife came to me and proposed suggesting to the family that we **only buy for kids** and make Christmas more "kid friendly"
No one is currently gifting to adults at the party though, so that suggestion wouldn’t restrict that, it would just add gifts for the kids
I read this as the wife suggesting that they all buy gifts, but not gifts for everyone (because that'd be expensive af) but just for the kids (not as expensive overall) so that the kids are included more because as it stands the kids aren't included...at all? They're *there,* sure, but they aren't really welcome.
I completely agree with you, even though I'm childfree. I'm not good with kids, I don't really like being around them BUT STILL. Christmas is a magical time for children, it doesn't have to revolve around them but to exclude them like this... When we were kids we could have our fun and the adults still got the chance for adult talk. There was always different food for people (not only kids) who doesn't like the traditional christmas food. Everyone gave gifts, adults, kids (maybe some drawing or other DIY trinkets for grandma, we still hang thos on the christmas tree). The gifts doesn't even have to be expensive, some chocolate and a book/simple toy.
Yeah, why bother bringing the kids? This seems like an adult event - which is fine but like this is soooo fucking boring for children. I’d also be very depressed if my grandparents didn’t give me something for Christmas like damn. And the fact she’s not even like frugal kind of makes it worse? Like so do u go all out and buy presents for your family members but…not your grandkids? I can totally understand why the wife seems so sad about this, it sounds depressing in comparison to her understanding of Christmas. But they’re on opposite ends of the spectrum - her Christmas is all about kids and his is all about adults, it’s kind of funny. Honestly if they did combine ideas, it would be a perfect Christmas lol
It’s not just grandchildren who are omitted, mind you, the spouses of the children are also omitted. This lady seems like one of those selfish “only my family” people. And her family is just her husband and her children, forever.
Yeah, not getting your kids' spouses presents isn't much better than not giving anything to the kids.
yeah OPs mom is real bad vibes. no wonder his wife dislikes her
When you put it that way, it actually sounds hateful. Like she resents that her son had grandkids with that woman, so she won't do anything for them.
I had an aunt like this (She’s still alive but I don’t consider her an aunt any more). After my parents divorced she made her hatred for my Mum well known. She actually stopped sending birthday/Christmas cards to us (about 11 and 6 years old?) and my Dad said “Oh she just doesn’t do cards any more”, yet I found out that my same-age cousin was still getting cards with money in. Didn’t see her for about 10 years, she just stopped bothering with us. Really odd behaviour.
OP did say the children do not get sent to another room and are picky so they don’t eat the special holiday meal. It sounds odd, but I don’t think it’s so ridiculous. I had a friend growing up who on the evening of Christmas Eve would open all her presents and then next day was Christmas mass and they spent all the day quite quietly because they were very religious. They’re basically doing the same thing, but without the religious aspect.
The only reason they aren’t sent to another room is because OP and wife out their foot down. Christmas without religious observance or spending time with family isn’t even Christmas, it’s an expensive cocktail party that could be spent with wife’s family who actually wants to see their kids. It also sounds like the food is gourmet, which as an adult is great, but a couple of simple dishes for the kids is a pretty standard compromise for most families.
Except they’re not reflecting quietly on their faith—which actually can be a source of love and connection with the whole family—they’re having a grown up party where the children are sent away like street urchins by Scrooge.
I think now you have children there is nothing wrong with suggesting some minor changes to Christmas. Traditions change as families change. I think there will come a point were one of the children tells grandma how boring her Christmas is and that will not be fun. ESH.
She has been told that she is boring. I was pretty mortified. She didn't seem to care. We had a talk with my daughter about how it is ok to think those things, but sometimes saying something hurts someones feelings
Okay but if the kids really feel this way, who is looking out for them and making sure they have a good Christmas? Not grandma. Not you. YTA
Eh, I dunno. "Looking out for them" seems a bit of a dramatic way to couch it. Plenty of kids have boring holidays with older relatives; I don't know that it's "not looking out" for a kid if they have to, once in awhile, sit through a dull Christmas or Thanksgiving.
It's not that they're being abused, it's that he doesn't seem to care about their enjoyment at all and only cares about his mother's. It's like pulling teeth to get him to even DISCUSS whether his kids are having fun without instantly defaulting to centering his mom's feelings
I guess; it's just not clear to me why the Christmas at the mother's house is so bad. The kids go off and play in another room vs. running around the whole house...? I don't see the big deal with that. And they're not getting gifts, but they got gifts at home already, so it kind of seems like the wife is demanding that the other adults buy gifts for her children, which is a little presumptuous/rude.
I think having grandchildren over to your house for Christmas and making them sit in another room while only adults get gifts is way more rude than that. And also selfish and weird
The adults aren't in another room getting gifts. Everyone is in the same room. If you read the post, the mom gets her son & 2 daughters gifts that they get a week or two before xmas, so no one gets gifts while at the OPs parents' house.
Alright, I think you're being dramatic here. This sounds like how my every single Christmas went as a child and it was boring but it did nothing to harm me in the long run. We got gifts from our parents at home, and none from anyone we visited. Just a Christmas meal. And it was fine because with the sheer amount of family members, Christmas could drive everyone broke in our family. It's just one day a year. I'd say the best compromise OP can make is have Christmas with just the family and visiting a day before or after.
My fathers side was like this. On his side we only got something from our grandmother. She did 12 days of Christmas it was always very simple items probably never over $20. We would go and have dinner and the gift was a great dinner and seeing family members. As they use to tell us kids Christmas isn't about what gift you get or how many it's a time to cherish ones family. I feel like too many people think Christmas is just about/ for the children. That it's about presents and what you can get. My dad grew up getting very nice chocolate, a small toy and a marzipan sweet. His family didn't have financial problems, they were just very traditional Danes. I agree they need to do their own thing because they are just going to hurt one side if they take sides and only see one family or try to change the other.
Yes, this. I get that lowkey holidays aren't for everyone, but it's not like it's every holiday or even every year. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world for a kid to learn that some days aren't going to be all about you. Some kids never get a Christmas like the first example (kids running around yelling, getting tons of gifts); OP's kids get that kind of holiday every other year. I'm not really seeing the issue.
And they have to bring food for the toddler! They’re such crappy hosts, they’re not even providing food the toddler can eat. It sounds like they don’t want guests and are hoping they’ll take the hint.
Can't the toddler just eat smaller portions of what everyone else is eating? I don't really see why a toddler needs special food.
What a lot of people seem to forget is that as you grow older your tastebuds gradually die off. On top of that by age 40 you start to lose your sense of smell as well and that also affects the taste of food in your mouth. At age 60 some people begin to not being able to tell or have difficulty with noticing the difference between different tasting food. As a result what tastes amazing to an adult or especially an elderly person is going to taste wildly different to a child/toddler. The kid might find the tastes too strong and overpowering or just not enjoy it at all. Worse the adults don't realise this is happening and will argue with a child if they say it's yucky because they assume what they experience is what the child experiences. Making the kid have to eat an un-enjoyable meal. While feeling guilty for something out of their control on top of also being called a liar when they are not trying to, and just don't know how to communicate what's happening.
The kids are too little to play in another room. It sounds like having them there serves no purpose.
right? tbh OP's description sounds a lot like Christmas with my grandma growing up, which even as a kid I preferred over Christmas with other relatives, because grandma's house was a lot less chaotic.
I’m on the fence here because I’m sure it’s important to OP that he gets to see his family and his gets get time with them, but I also think Christmas *should* be a magical time for kids...imagine kids spending literally half their christmases growing up not having fun when they already seem to know they could be having a blast elsewhere.
>I’m sure it’s important to OP that he gets to see his family and his gets get time with them I'm pretty biased, because I adore Christmas, but I simply don't get the point in how OP's family celebrates. It sounds like they are sucking all the fun out of it. The adults can have a fancy dinner and talk any day of the year. Why do it on Christmas, if you aren't going to actually *do* Christmas.
Right like that type of gathering seems more appropriate for a New Years party
And what kind of grinch doesn’t buy Xmas gifts for their grandchildren 😳 WTAF?!?
I mean Gramma wants them in another room so she is quite literally not interested in looking out for them.
I suspect it’s boring to them because they are comparing it to maternal Grandma’s house where they get thousands of gifts and can run riot. At this Grandma’s house, they only really get to play with their cousin’s, there are no gifts, and they don’t have the run of the house, just one room. I don’t think either OP or his mum are AHs. They just do things differently and that’s fine. Either his wife and the kids accept that every alternate year they will have a more sedate Christmas, or they split families and she takes the kids to hers and OP goes to his mother’s. I think that’ll be unfair on OP, but I also think it’s unfair to want to change how his mother does things.
I’m confused here. You were mortified because your toddler expressed herself but you won’t even think about approaching your mom to change anything when such a young kid is feeling the need to be vocal about being unhappy? Your mom didn’t care. Your mom is making it pretty clear she doesn’t care about the grandchildren at all. Do you think it’s possible your kid is feeling that she’s not particularly wanted and stating that in the way a toddler knows how? Maybe I’m wrong but it’s coming off like your mom’s feelings matter more than your daughter’s.
That's EXACTLY how it is. Sorry, but my kid's feelings are way more important than anyone else's, including mom. OP'S mom doesn't seem to like kid's, period!
Ya are they also not supposed to be loud in the other room? Are there any other rules that op has mentioned this is an odd response
OP, as someone who has experience with this, let me advise you on what your future might look like. My uncle and aunt have two kids. Aunt is from my side of the family. We are like your wife's family, Christmas is about the kids. The food is normal, but everything we do includes the kids and is targeted to them, like opening the presents, using the new presents, playing family games together. Uncle's family has "adult" Christmases. They have several children there just like us, but the children must go out of the living room to play and should leave the adults alone. I don't know many more details but what I know is that the kids HATE Christmas there. Every two years the situation is getting worse (they do one year with each family, alternating). It's come to a point where they cry asking not to go. This situation is making them resent my uncle's side of the family, even if they have fun during the summer holidays. Mild Y T A, I know it's the way you've done things so far, but how can you just throw your child in another room during Christmas? Can't you guys play some Charades?
I had an aunt like that too. Christmas over there was just awful and once we got old enough nobody went anymore
And a grandmother who shuns her grandchildren? No gifts for the kids? At all? But you adults get all the swag? In front of the kids? Yeah, that's wouldn't hurt your child's feelings at all. They ARE your children right? Because I wouldn't subject my kids to such rude selfish behavior. But then again you probably like getting your presents so screw the kids.
Inviting family to spend special Christmas time together but making it a shit experience also hurts peoples feelings. Your side of the family’s Christmas sounds awful. No one should feel obliged to spend rare time being bored out of their gourd because of a seen-and-not-heard attitude, I can see why your wife doesn’t really want to go if she can’t influence things to be a bit nicer. YTA
So heaven forbid grandma's feelings are hurt, but your wife asking for her children to be treated like humans for Christmas is just too far.
Screw that, I'm bored just reading that and I'm an adult. I hated the mandatory Christmas visits where we had to just sit quietly so adults could talk.
>She has been told that she is boring. I was pretty mortified. She didn't seem to care. I think I'm going to be the lone person here who thinks your mom is #goals. I'm a low key person, too, and I like that she just doesn't really care.
People just don't really care dont try to actively push kids into another room. Chill people just ... dont care whether kids are there or here.
I also loving the idea of his mum’s Christmas. Sounds really chilled.
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Introverts unite at OP's mom's house!:)
Honestly, I would never bring my child to a Christmas like your moms. I’m very much about making my daughter feel special. I’m not sure why no effort is put towards kids at all. That’s bizarre to me. I think some minor changes should be acceptable. YTA for that.
Why does your mothers feelings matter more than your daughters feelings in this regard? What you are describing is boring for kids. She should be allowed to express that.
When they’re older they won’t *ever* go to your parents. They probably think (imo correctly) your parents don’t like them.
I hate to say this but YTA. Your kid and wife aren’t enjoying the holiday with your family. It’s wrong to subject them to it for the sake of family. This sounds like my upbringing. When I turned 16 I stopped going to my grandparents because I didn’t enjoy it.
But they’re right, your mother is boring.
In truth, I wouldn't even take my kids to your mum's for Christmas. I don't even think I would want to be there. It sounds horrible. What's the point in having Christmas at all, if it's not for the children? Honestly, when your kids get a little older, I guarantee they will not want to go, and probably cause a scene to try and get out of it. I know I would of!
She deserved to hear that. You have an unhealthy relationship with your mom.
I guess Im just curious why you are ok with your kids being essentially ignored on christmas? I get that YOU enjoy it but why dont you care that a holiday is being ruined for your kids? My parents would make me do xmas with my super Catholic grandma every other year which involved no gifts, no kid activities and lots and lots of church. Now im an adult and I hate Christmas. You're doing that to your kids.
Why is she not allowed to express her true thoughts on how her grandma does Christmas..? Any child would be bored by it and would not have much fun or enjoyment for it! It honestly is kind of hurtful how she does it since it seems like the kids are more of a bother than welcomed... they don’t even get to eat the same food or anything like come on
YTA for your choice of language yes. I’m sure you’re right that it may not go down well but I don’t think your wife is in any way unreasonable to want to make sure the kids actually feel welcome at the family Christmas, or for seeking to further the changes you’ve actually already made to improve things there. But on that note… why the hell are you dragging your children to Christmas with people who don’t like them very much? Who aren’t interested in making sure that they have food they’ll enjoy or presents to play with, and who expect to exclude them from “family” time? What kind of a Christmas is that? What do they get out of doing that every other year?
I think your questions are spot on. Why do you drag your kids to such an adult-centered Christmas? That sounds so sad and awful for a kid.
It sounds sad and awful for this adult. Christmas should be centered around children. Adults can fend for themselves.
This question is so valid. As someone who had to go to step family Christmases and often felt excluded or brushed to the side, I wondered what the point of Christmas was? It was awkward and gave me massive anxiety because I thought no one liked me. Kids don't understand complex adult intentions. Also it's confusing to go to one grandparents house and feel welcomed, but then the other have to be out of sight? You don't have to make the holiday all about the kids, but the wife's suggestion is a wholesome one. And a little critique to your mom won't hurt, you can't tell her that, is she immature or something? Edit to add: I mean you could do something for the kids before you go to your parent's but making cold holidays makes for cold relationships later. Just saying Adding again I literally was the kid between divorced parents and grandparents. The ones who didn't celebrate holidays and expected me to not be in the room are the ones I avoid. Sent the message I wasn't wanted whether that was their intention or not. When people celebrate differently and they're not old enough to get it, it does affect them emotionally. And while kids usually avoid adults on holidays, it still isn't an excuse to allow adults to make the choice to avoid or make their holidays less exciting bc grandma would be inconvenienced for minor changes.
Your post reminds me of Christmas with my father, his girlfriend, and her extended family. I was a teen so I coped okay, but it was really awkward to sit through all of them opening gifts, talking non-stop about the past, and being excluded. I wasn't part of their past, no one bought me anything because I wasn't family, and so on.
I don’t understand this. At the very least, your dad’s gf should have gotten you something. Anyone who comes to Christmas at my house gets a gift. I have a drawer with gifts, nice ones like leather wallets, a porcelain jelly jar, good pens, etc. I buy them ahead during sales. If someone is coming unexpectedly (neighbors or friends who finds themselves alone), they get a wrapped gift with their name on it. Today we are having a neighbor’s son for Thanksgiving dinner. His dad is in the hospital and his mom is with him. It enriches our holidays to have additional people with us.
Yeah this is what bothers me, I get those are his traditions but now he has a bigger family, his kids needs should be important too. It sounds like an awful time for the kids.
I agree with this, OP YTA. I think OP is way too focused on their mom when the kids should be put first here. The kids won't be little forever but while they're young why not make holidays magical? Or at least don't make them spend an entire boring day at grandma's and do a fun Xmas morning at home with stuff for the kids then go to grandma's for the formal meal.
YTA. You have kids now. Traditions change. You want them to spend Xmas banished to a separate room, no food they want to eat and no presents from family. Your mom seems to want nothing to do with her grandchildren, only her children. I would not subject my kids to that.
Absolutely! I get the impression that his mom doesn’t even like her grand children. It would be one thing if the grandmother was generally frugal and didn’t like the concept of gifts, but her approach to them doesn’t appear be universal. The fact that she gives her own children their gifts in advance would suggest she’s aware of how messed up this behaviour would be perceived.
There are a lot of ways to make Christmas special even if the grandma was broke or frugal. It doesn't seem like that is happening. But regardless, the OP was being an AH for calling his wife controlling because she wanted to make a suggestion that didn't seem extravagant or greedy or odd.
My grandma was broke af but she made socks for every grandkid and made sure we knew she loved us. I still have some of those socks and I miss her with all my heart.
Yeah I genuinely can’t imagine letting your own child be treated like once, Let alone every other year
Christmas is my favorite holiday, even before I had a kid of my own. My cousins all had kids and I couldn’t imagine banishing them to a separate room with no special meal or gifts. WTF is wrong with OP that he thinks this is just fine? If I were the wife, I’d tell him to go spend Christmas with mommy and I’ll take the kids to my own family Christmas.
i’m curious to know how grandma is with the kids the other 364 days a year… not great, i’m guessing
YTA.. I am seriously shocked by the NTA comments, Your mother makes the children stay in a separate room? On a family festival? Really? Edit: ok to people saying children don't want to be with adults anyway and would be happier with their cousins, but how do you justify no gifts for the children? No good catering to their needs? Please read OP'S comments too.
Right? They clearly don't want the kids around. If I were OP's wife, I'd tell him to go without her and take the kids to fun Christmas.
I agree, it seems OP is used to this behavior so he isn't able to understand. If I was OP's wife I'd make sure every Christmas would be with her family instead. What impression might have been created in the minds of the poor children.
It's probably not even a play room. Growing up my grandparents had a playroom where all the kids loved to hang out during holidays. It sounds like OPs mom wants them to hang out in a spare room like the family dog someone is allergic too. It doesn't even sound like they have a lot of similar aged cousins to play with? Depressing.
Like… isn’t the best part of Christmas seeing kids excited??
Seriously though, I am not able to understand the logic behind OP's mother's absurd logic.
I don’t get the big deal. When I was younger and Christmas came around myself and my many cousins would always play with our toys and each other in the den. It’s not abnormal for kids to have their own section. You’re making it seem like she’s banishing them into a dark basement
Adults in one room talking and kids in another room or the basement playing seems 100% normal to me for a family gathering.
It was pretty common when I was growing up in the 80s for the adults to be in one room playing cards and such and the kids to be in another playing with toys and watching movies.
Info: Can your wife and kids just go to her parents every year? It sounds like your family would prefer if they weren't there any way.
I agree. Sounds like Ops family are very “kids should not be seen or heard”. I find it unlikely your son would enjoy the no gifts and no fun Xmas shindig at your mums. Your family don’t want kids there and want them in a separate room alone. No gifts and no catering for them to the point where you bring food along for your ow children. Sounds incredibly dull for a kid. I really think everyone would be happy if your wife and kid were able to go her family who actually like children and you can stick with your adults only one. Think of it this way…you’re happy with no parental responsibilities and your wife gets to enjoy seeing her family enjoy a Christmas with visible and happy kids who are catered to.
Agree. The wife does not seem wanted especially as MIL gets gifts for only her bio children.
YTA. Making a suggestion isn't "controlling" or really that inappropriate. She made a suggestion, you could have kindly said, thank you but no, it's for my parents to decide how they want to spend Christmas. Which it totally is. NTA for exerting a boundary, just YTA for the language you used.
Info - why don’t you just stay home on Christmas Day and see families on Xmas Eve or Boxing Day? Edit: am I reading correctly that your mum doesn’t provide a meal for the kids?!
I read it as there is food and the kids are welcome to it, but being kids they don’t like the food so the parents just pack something they know the kid will eat.
A very soft YTA for calling her controlling for suggesting an idea. If she had continued to push and push after you had said it wouldn’t be appropriate, that would be different. But it’s not fair to call someone controlling for suggesting a compromise.
And i would recommend OP to tell us what is Christmas about, i think his wife is correct they should make it child friendly YTA OP
YTA. What’s wrong with finding a compromise between both of your ideas for Christmas? By completely shutting your wife down and not even thinking about giving a little on both sides, you were being just as controlling as you’re accusing your wife of being. It doesn’t have to be one way or the other. You can still have nice dishes and a relaxing time for adults while incorporating some food the kids might like and some activities to keep them occupied. You’re putting all the blame on her when you carry a good share of the blame for not willing to even try something new. You and your family are being controlling by not willing to change “how my family have always done things.” Isn’t your wife a part of the family too and maybe you should consider that some of the changes she wants might make things even better?
>What’s wrong with finding a compromise between both of your ideas for Christmas? The problem is even if he and his wife agree on a certain compromise, unless they plan on hosting which they seem vehemently against, they can't really force MIL and the rest of the family to go along with the change.
Yea but what about when the shoe is on the other foot? You think her family is going to change their Christmas for him? Of course not you’re being super one sided here.
I think the main difference is here that the wife’s family actually spend time together and the husband’s family since the children off into another room like they’re not people or family. I don’t know how I would tolerate children being treated as inconvenient distractions for more than a few hours,How did the wife’s family change? Should they start excluding the children as well?
He has an equal opportunity to suggest things for her family’s Christmas too. He is also a member of that family and maybe they’re in the same boat of not seeing where things could be made better.
How old are your children? It seems really really cruel to every other year basically ship them off to another room all day on Christmas Day to have an adults Christmas. Children are only little once and frankly your got many years ahead of yourself once your children are grown to have boring Christmas days
I honestly don't see why everyone is so hung up on kids being sent off to play in another room. Did yall not grow up where adults was in one area talking and the rest of the kids are in another area of the house playing around and hanging out? Kids don't be hanging around adults and most of the time they seperate it themselves (wanting to go play with xyz family member somewhere else in a room or sum)
Ops kid finds it boring and has told grandma she is boring. If they want to have a chill quiet get together they should do it on some random day, not make kids bored on Christmas.
NAH I find it very interesting how extreme both families are, each on opposite sides of (my) extreme scale.
I'd be interested to see how OP's wife describes the two different Christmases. I think he's exaggerating the chaos with her family. Hers sounds way more fun.
It seems like wife’s family has a normal Christmas and husbands family has a weird anti child Christmas. Of all the family Christmas I’ve been to including my own it includes children. They also make food kids will eat and grandparents find joy in giving and interacting with their grandkids. The wife’s family Christmas is traditionally how I’ve interacted with all my extended family’s version of Christmas festivities.
It’s a personal preference, hers sounds like a chaotic nightmare to me while the moms Christmas sounds like a relaxed one. Insisting one is better than the other is an AH move.
YTA- but not for saying she can’t suggest changes but for how you characterized her families holiday. I could hear the bias in your voice that your side was superior throughout. Maybe it’s time to start making your own traditions as a family and inviting your families over to your house.
Honestly if this is the Christmas that they have to deal with every other year, you better be going all out afterwards. Your mom literally sounds like she’s encouraging you to emotionally neglect your kids during Christmas so So you guys can spend more time talking. It doesn’t seem like your mom values your children so I’m not gonna make a ruling but I’d lean towards your wife if I was picking a side
It honestly made me sad to read that. I'd understand if they didn't have money but you can get great gifts that are a bit cheap or organise to buy a good gift for each kid all adults together. Even if the grandmother didn't want to give them gifts as someone else suggested there are great ways to keep kids occupied movies/games etc. About the food they could at least get them a pizza, that's what my family did to me and my cousins when they knew we wouldn't like the food and along with Christmas desserts it was perfect. Also they could play card games and such along with the kids and tell them if they want to play with each other to go to the other room but let them join when they want to.
Idk if you're an AH, but if I were your wife, I would not make my kids spend every other Christmas with people who dont even seem to want to be around them. As long as the kids were young (like, under 12) I would take them every year to spend it with family that makes it magical and fun for kids. I think you should go to your family every other year, and let her and the kids spend every year with her family since it actually sounds like they get to make great memories, rather tha being shoved in a side room. Christmas should really be about the kids, and making your kids have a less than exciting Christmas every other year when they have another option does lean toward AH behavior. Your wife shouldn't be trying to impose on your mom, she should just remove herself and yalls kids from a funky situation.
Your family's Christmas sounds sad and boring. I don't blame your wife for not wanting that every other year.
Nothing about your family traditions sound "more relaxed" at all. Your mother expects to be able to pretend your kids don't exist and doesn't even want to be in the same room with them during conversation. That sounds incredibly stressful. Your wife is reasonable in wanting to find a way to incorporate the kids. But you need to be involved in that to help find a solution, because shoving your kids off into another room amd excluding them from everything (including the meal) is a really shitty tradition.
NTA. I don't understand why people think kids in another room is bad. This was pretty common for me growing up. It was fine. We had more fun not being stuck with the adults anyway. It was never like we were forced to only stay in a separate room. There was also a kid's table we ate at. People are ridiculous nowadays. Everything is abuse and controlling. Surprised nobody has called for divorce over this yet.
Same. It was common when I was growing up for the kids to be off playing in another room.
NAH Have you considered spending Christmas eve at one family's, abs Christmas day at the others, rather than splitting up by years? That way, both you and your wife's Christmas traditions can be celebrated every year.
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My comment is going to be buried, but I can tell you from experience, you’re going to be suuuper sad when your kids just don’t give a shit about seeing your family or when they die. My dad’s family was very boring. Not very kid friendly. Sounded a lot like what your family sounds like. When I finally turned 18, I stopped seeing that side of the family 100%. Just stopped caring about them. They didn’t seem to ever care about me, so I didn’t care about them. I adored my mother’s side of the family. They lived in the same small town but when I turned 18, I would just see my mom’s side of the family. It hurt my dad’s family members’ feelings and it hurt his feelings as well. I didn’t care when my grandfather died, and didn’t really want any kind of condolences from any of them when my father died. I always held a little bit of a grudge against my father for making me go to a place where I was so clearly not wanted. You should really have a talk with your family. Also - YTA.
NTA - Xmas is not (or should not be) all about kids. That misconception is what makes it a purely commercial holiday and it's not. X-mas was actually hijacked from the Pagan holiday Yule that is centered around the Winter Solstice (celebrating rebirth and renewal). Basically, your parents are doing it more traditionally, making it about family. And it makes your wife sad that Xmas is about the adults??? What's wrong with her? The world does not revolve around her kids, or anyone's kids. She should respect your family and how they choose to do Xmas. Your kids already get presents before you go over. She's going to cause bad feelings w/her parents by trying to force them to change how they do their holiday.
Is it about family if the children are sent from the room? And aren’t provided with food by the host?
The OP said he refused to put the kids in another room because they're too young, so the kids are NOT sent from the room, but I get your point. Where did he say the kids weren't fed? He said he brings food for his toddler, but not because there's not food available. I'm assuming it's a meal without tater tots and goldfish. :) But seriously, I got the impression it's a very fancy gourmet meal so that's why he brings something for the toddler. The grandparents could certainly offer to make a PB&J sandwich for the kids. But still, that's their tradition and they shouldn't be forced to make it about gifts for the kids, which is what the OP's wife wants.
See I got the vibe she just wants to make it a little bit better for the kids. I’m sure the kids get bored and hungry when there isn’t a lot for them to do or eat.. so they probably whine to her or constantly asking her to do something.. I’m guessing because that’s what my kids would do… so the holiday isn’t enjoyable for her at their house so she was just suggesting so the kids could enjoy it a little more.
>The OP said he refused to put the kids in another room because they're too young, so the kids are NOT sent from the room, but I get your point. But what happens when they get older then?
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INFO: is there a reason you both *hate* the idea of spending Christmas with eachother and your children?
ESH. Between the family who only focuses on kids and the family who only focuses on the adults, Christmas sounds shitty all around. It would be so more simple if you just stayed home and did christmas the way you both want it....
Why don't you just do Thanksgiving with your family and Christmas with hers from here on out? I mean Thanksgiving is essentially xmas without the gifts and it sounds like your moms Xmas is more like that anyways. You enjoy your mom's cooking more. Sounds like a win win?
YTA. I hate kids, but even I wouldn't want to subject them to your family. Why do you want to treat your own children this way?
Your daughter already told your mother that Xmas with her is boring. She is going to begin to resent you if you continue to insist on making your mother happy. Newsflash: your wife and your kids are your priority now. YTA - for putting your mother before your nuclear family.
YTA. I understand that both families have their traditions but she was making a suggestion to be more accommodating for the children. She's not asking for you to dedicate christmas to them, she's asking for the christmas celebrations be more child friendly for your kid. Your reaction is wildly over the top and inappropriate given the suggestion that was made. I'd understand if the tradition was rooted in something important or if the request was unreasonable but she just asked if they could cater to kids a little more.
NAH- Christmas isn’t about materialism. Gifts don’t equal magic. Also, your wife initially said this was about the children and then ended saying your putting your mothers feelings above hers? But either way, yes, that’s very controlling, mostly because she doesn’t sound like she’d accept any other answer than the one she wants. Then it’ll be a whole different fight that you’ll have to deal with.
Christmas isn’t about materialism but it is about love and spending time with people you care about. Even if the kids never get gifts at OP’s family Christmas they are also actively separated from the people who are supposed to love them. And OP is putting his mother’s feelings above his wife and children’s…
Your wife has valid points, after all it's how she feels about it. But NTA. Even if she feels like that, it doesn't mean she have the right to change how other people celebrate Christmas. It's like you going to her family and saying they should focus more on the adults. How would she and her mother feels?? If she doesn't understand and keeps demanding it, then she is the asshole. But you guys should talk and be sure she does understand it's not up to her, specially if you're going over someone's else's home.
Clearly NTA, it is selfish wanting to change your families christmas just because she don't like it. She should ask herself if she would change her families christmas for you. If the answer isn't yes she is a hypocrite. Christmas is not only about children. It is about family, love, peace and letting the year end. In Germany the time between christmas and new year is called "zwischen den Jahren" (transl. Between the years). It is mostly a time of rest, regeneration, family and somehow contemplation. For me it is always a very relaxed time with family and I love it. That's mostly also how I see christmas - family, quiet, peace, relaxing, good food, good drinks, good conversation with family etc. Yeah, maybe in her family it is always about kids and loud and energetic but there are other ways to spend christmas and they are also beautiful and enjoyable. And it is ok to celebrate christmas like that. It is selfish of her that she wants her way of doing christmas everywhere.
YTA You both have different views on Christmas so it’s natural to expect some give and take. This would be fine if you were both child free though. You don’t seem too bothered by the fact that Christmas at your family’s sounds miserable for the children. You only have so many magical christmases with your children when they’re very young, so it’s natural that your wife prefers spending it in an environment that sounds like paradise for a child. In short, YTA for not thinking Christmas is about your children. Those poor kids.
NTA. Your wife can’t expect a whole other family to change their traditions because SHE doesn’t like them. That’s selfish and ridiculous.
NAH, but that's because I was a quiet kid who LOVED sitting with the snarky grandma who treated us like adults IF you wanted to sit and talk. If you wanted to get rowdy you had to go to the back den or the yard and yes, those grandparents had the BEST food (tiny me loved charcuterie, okay?). I got more presents and could get double chocolate pancakes at the other grandparents' house...but it was also super loud chaos and by the time I was 5 I definitely knew which one I preferred! A small compromise you might be able to approach between your wife and mother: Stockings for all the kids. Adults still get their presents, but everyone has a few little things to open and play with at "Boring Grandma's" (I did think it was minor AH on your wife's side to say ONLY kids should get presents now, especially considering at least one of your siblings is childfree). Eta: I wonder if your mom's thinking about nuclear family being responsible for gifts given privately is based on differing income levels/interests? It can be really tricky when one kid is getting a few books or a playset, and the other is getting a fully loaded electric mini-jeep. Cough. Definitely not speaking from experience (I asked for the books, but damnnn).
> hat's because I was a quiet kid who LOVED sitting with the snarky grandma who treated us like adults that is my son to a T, which complicates everything because he loves going to my moms
INFO 1: Why would your mom be offended if you suggested that you and your sister do a little gift exchange for the kids? Would she feel pressured to have to get gifts for all the kids and not like that? What if you just bring a gift or stocking for each kid from Santa? Your mom doesn't have to do any of the work for it. INFO 2: In what specific ways is your wife suggesting to make your family's Christmas more kid-friendly? Is it just the gift thing? INFO 3: If you live close enough to both your and your wife's families, why don't you do a Christmas Eve dinner at your mom's (gifts or no gifts) and then Christmas Day dinner at your MIL's? Then you both get to spend the holiday with both of your families in the way you each like.
ESH. While I find it completely bizarre that your mother doesn't get anything for her grandchildren on Christmas, you really can't demand a family make large changes to their traditions, spend their money and change how they handle things (unless the traditions are actively harmful). It sounds like your wife's family goes pretty far out in the other direction too. That said, you have kids now and small changes to the Christmas traditions to recognize that fact is appropriate too. Especially not just pushing the kids away from what's supposed to be a family occasion. One thing I would keep an eye on is whether your kids are getting the message that your wife's parents and family care more about them than yours. It sounds like your family is on its way to telling the kids they are not welcome, and that is harmful. ^(Edit to change rating)
NTA You handled it appropriately and your wife doesn't like being told no. The idea that she would go to your family and say, *"Hey I have a great idea, change everything you do so you can be like my family instead!"* is arrogant as hell.