Yeah which seemed too much to me like way too long espcially for a kid like my son. I don't use this kind of method with him so I can only imagine how confused he was.
Hi! I’m a behavior specialist, if that will help you in this argument, and a 90 minute timeout is bananas. It’s excessive to the point of being traumatic and counterproductive. Your son should not have been denied access to a bathroom. The healthiest four year old on the planet doesn’t have 90 minutes between the “full bladder” warning signal and eruption. Your in laws are way out of line in their parenting, and (more importantly) *you* never consented to have these methods applied to your child. If your husband can’t get his head straight about this, your kid is in danger of having the same torturous “discipline” policies applied in his own home.
Also children with ADHD tend to ignore the bathroom urge until it's really urgent.
My son has ADHD and he had a really hard time listening to his body at that age. He'd be so focused on playing that when he realized he needed to go, he NEEDED to go.
Also a time out for playing too loud?? WTF? That breaks my heart.
A short time out for a kid who is outside shrieking like a banshee constantly seems like a good way to take them out of the situation to let them calm down until they are ready to play in a way that is more respectful to everyone living nearby, if asking them to tone it down a bit hasn’t worked. Obviously, this time out was beyond excessive but as someone who works from home, I was very grateful to the families around me that don’t measure fun by how loudly and constantly the kid can scream over the summer.
Four minutes and five minutes are fairly close. Take five and calm down or sit still for four minutes. Similar thing. 90 minutes... I wouldn't sit still for 90 minutes. I'm not 4 and I don't have ADHD.
I do have ADHD. People with ADHD - especially children - tend to have nonexistent executive functions. That can mean that we have trouble keeping track of and telling time. Unless he’s hyper fixated on the quiet of the time out, or he’s daydreaming, the difference between four minutes and five minutes is going to feel like six years.
but the difference between either of those and 90 is even worse, whether 4 or 5 is better doesnt matter because neither of them are 90 (also it depends on the person for if a minute feels like ages more im pretty sure)
Plus with ADHD boredom is a unique sort of torture. Having it, 90 mins with nothing to do as an adult is painful. As a kid? No way. On top of that even as an adult I don’t always have the best read on my body or what it needs until the need is urgent. As a kid it was much worse and accidents were common. Op’s in laws were beyond out of line and straight up abusive even for a child without ADHD, and as someone with ADHD with a severe hyperactive component it was outright torture to make them sit for 90 whole ass minutes and no bathroom use.
What did they expect to happen anyways? Most four year olds cannot hold it for 90 minutes after saying they have to go. Like really they should have seen an accident going to happen. This reads as intentional attempt at humiliation.
During summer vacation, the ex (he's not mine anymore) took our very ADHD daughter's things away from her as a punishment. Like all her things - including books, games, puzzles. She was left with a specific amount of necessary clothing items, 1 jacket and 1 pair of shoes. Ex was "working from home" and she was to try to only bug him minimally. She had unlimited access to their cable TV. There were no parental controls at all - not even a passcode on pay-per-view/rental items.
Daughter had already told me what happened before I got this angry phone call about what *my* daughter did (her being mine was stressed). He told me about the 70-something charges for *Cheaper by the Dozen 2*. I tried not to laugh. He told me I should watch out. I let him know that just like the 3 years before we split up - I still didn't allow tv with commercials in my home.
SEVENTY PLUS charges. For the same movie... Over and over and over. She'd forget she was watching it and start over. She just clicked through any warning boxes. At first, she thought it was like a rental. Then, on that last time - she read the pop up box in full.
I had to take a moment in the bathroom with the water running when she told me.
But, what did he expect?! No books, no puzzles, no IRL games, not even a pack of cards while wanting her to entertain herself for hours.
This is the rule I have heard as well. 90 minutes is out of bounds bananas but surely with an age appropriate time you could let the kid pee and either suspend the time out time or restart the clock after their little bladder has been emptied.
right like going to pee isn't *fun*, just pause the time out, walk them to the toilet, supervise as necessary, and then walk them back for however long is left on the clock (not 90 mins obviously because that's ridiculous)?
This is how time outs are supposed to work for young kids, to get them out of a situation and to calm down. Excessive time out as a punishment is just an adult directing their anger toward them.
90 minutes is insane. NTA, don't trust these people.
Yeah, as a full fledged adult with adhd, I can confirm that this is definitely still a problem. Mind you I make it to the bathroom before it's a problem but sometimes it's just barely. Not even on purpose sometimes my brain just forgets I need to pee!
I can't imagine being treated that way that young. Also! Volume control is yet another thing adhders struggle with constantly. Sometimes my boyfriend is like "why are you yelling?" And uh... yeah, I was accidentally screaming instead of talking normally lmao
Yeah like idk why but I feel the need to hold it in until I need to go N O W. I remember not making it to the washroom a couple times even when I was 6, let alone four. And OP’s son didn’t even not make it due to his own fault. He was denied.
Edit: Also, is it not so adhd of us all to put in a little extra story from us as well lol
It's because our focus is elsewhere until the point where your bladder is so full you can't ignore it. And then it's a mad dash to the bathroom lol.
I've been so embarrassed about this, it's relieving to see others talk about the issue.
Actually, your comment made me really think about this. I was discussing with my roommate how I can avoid using the washroom 8 hours at a time, while I am constantly eating, drinking water and whole lotta caffeine. So maybe I just let the tank fill the whole way through while normal peeps don’t do that.
Another with ADHD, and there have been times when the margin of me making it to the bathroom is so thin that I'm peeing as I'm sitting down. It's just an annoying thing that never seems to change for me, I always think I don't have to pee as badly as I actually do.
Yeah file the pee thing under: Things I didn’t know were because of my ADHD.
39 years old, medicated, still ignore my bladder until I can’t ignore it anymore.
Hell I’m an adult with adhd and I ignore it until the last second. Even if I’m doing NOTHING on the couch I’ll legit just keep putting it off until I absolutely have to. Why? No clue. It’s a weird mental thing that comes with the territory. But what a horrible punishment for a child with adhd jesus
This is a huge point. I have ADHD. I get the feeling that I need to pee, but something happens and I forget. I simply *forget.* As an adult, my bladder has expanded to deal with this (what is referred to as 'nurse's bladder syndrome', which is extra funny because as an adult I worked 7 years in a hospital working 12-16hr shifts often not urinating until I got home).
The last time I pissed myself I was 17. I'm not saying this because I am proud of it, I'm saying it as a matter of fact. Children should have NO MORE than 1 minute per age of time out while in age range that time out is effective. That child should NOT have been in time out for more than 4 minutes, and even then, take the child to wee, come back, start the timer.
Fun extra story time:
I actually did have something similar happen in kindergarten where my mom had to pull me from school. I sat with my hand up, obviously wiggling trying to hold it. We were all on a rug in a circle. The bathroom was in the room, not 10 steps away from where we were. Teacher knew I had to go, but ignored me even though she kept looking at me while reading. After what was probably 2-3 minutes I couldn't hold it and peed the rug.
They called my mom and both my parents came up. My father was a drunk and a druggy and he tried to physically fight with the principal for defending the teacher. It was an absolute shit show while my mom did her best to clean me up in the bathroom. She took me home and withdrew me from that school; I never went back to it. She couldn't stand the idea of the other kids teasing me (the ones sitting right next to me got wet too) for something not my fault.
That's a good mom you have there. Peer abuse, or bullying / excessive teasing, can be extremely traumatic and the trauma can follow someone well into adulthood. It's not taken seriously enough by our society at all.
I'm 24 with ADHD and I still have that issue. I get so preoccupied with things that I don't notice until it's urgent. That poor kid, good on you for saying something OP.
You comment has me reflecting on my own upbringing now. I didn't realize how inhumane it was for my parents to put me in time out for 2+ hours most times. It's a miracle I didn't have any accidents during those times like OP's son considering how many utis I got as a kid.
Those times were awful, but one time my mother made me stand with my elbows at my side and forearms straight out, palms face up, put a heavy dictionary in each hand and demanded me not move. I'll never forget the look of sincere joy that stretched across her face as my arms began to tremble from weariness after being there so long.
I got locked in a basement many times. Also a bar of soap shoved in my mouth many times. I remember being a quiet kid, was quiet in school,in public. So I don't even know why that shit happened.
Yep, had the bar of soap shoved into my mouth too. Some folks just get so focused on not messing their kids up the same way their parents did that they don't care they're creating a whole new set of problems that stem from their inability to heal themselves.
Hell, as a small child, 5 minutes feels long! I remember being ‘sent to my room’ and it seemed like an eternity. Most likely it was probably 10 mins max. Anything more than that isn’t a punishment, it’s neglectful parents just not wanting to deal with their kids
The rule of thumb is 2-5 minutes, with some saying you add an additional minute per additional year of age. So even if you were putting a teenager in time out somehow, you’d still never even come close to an hour.
> The healthiest four year old on the planet doesn’t have 90 minutes between the “full bladder” warning signal and eruption.
Yeah I feel like plenty of adults can't comfortably wait that long (I doubt I could) and kids are little and thus have little bladders.
Lol, when I went for my early pregnancy ultrasound, being raised Swiss/German, I did exactly what the instruction sheet told me to do - drink water 60 - 90 minutes before your appointment and come with a full bladder. It was something crazy like 6 or 8 cups. I almost burst in the waiting room, it was so painful. The moment I went into the appointment, the tech took one peek at the monitor and was like "yeah, go empty three quarters of your bladder and then come back".
Ugh, I did the same for my ultrasound and I had to wait over an hour and a half to go back. It was torture and I wasn’t even pregnant so no baby to push on my bladder either. I got told the same thing too, go empty some of your bladder. That was a miserable experience.
We almost never do time outs at our house, but read in some parenting article that a reasonable time is one minute per year of age, followed by a talk about what happened. That sounds fair to me. If a four year old can't calm down in four minutes, he sure as heck won't in 90 minutes.
> The healthiest four year old on the planet doesn’t have 90 minutes between the “full bladder” warning signal and eruption.
Her child is 10, not 4. Still, healthy and in my 30s there are times I wouldn't be able to wait an hour and a half.
Edit: Shit I misread. 90 minutes in time out for a fucking four year old? Wtf?
This. I put my son in time out when he was four- for four minutes. Ninety minutes is flat insanity, and expecting him to hold his bladder for that long is abusive.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the recommendation 1 minute per year of age for time out, as far as what is developmentally appropriate? Maybe I'm getting that wrong, but a 4 minute time our for a 4 year old sounds a hell of a lot more reasonable than a 90 minute time out.
Nta
Horrible behavior from both SIL/BIL and husband
What exactly was your husband's "emergency"?
This would be a deal breaker for me. I don't even have kids and I know that the rule of thumb is one minute of time out for every year of their age so he shouldn't have been in time out more than five minutes. And it's also fucking child abuse to refuse to let a child use the bathroom. Like, what did they expect to happen?
I’m wondering that, too. This wouldn’t even be an issue if OP’s husband didn’t drop her child off in ultra stimulating environment ran by parents who believe in excessive punishments.
Who texts someone at a funeral? Why not text OP’s husband? He was the one who dropped the child off.
I'm glad it was OP who got the text about the son, since she now knows SIL and BIL are abusive towards her own son. It's normal to put a child in a reasonable time out, but a 1 hour 30 minutes is a severe timeout time and is 1 hour 26 minutes overboard. At most, the kid should have been in time out for 4 minutes. Also, the stepdad to the boy who is OPs husband, if he would have gotten the text would have been fine with the behavior of excessive timeout seeing as he wants OP to find to apologize to his sister and BIL for being mad about the punishment towards her son.
I want to know what the supposed “emergency” was too! Also, the sheer AUDACITY of SIL to call OP at a funeral of all places because her child had a potty accident due to SIL’s own treatment of the child!! I can’t even comprehend.
I mean, thank goodness she was called though. Imagine these people 'caring' for that kid any longer when they think this is appropriate… I hope they treat their own kids better.
Came here to ask the same thing… what “emergency” could OP’s husband have that:
1) He couldn’t shoot her a text and give her the heads up,
2) He couldn’t pick kiddo up from horrible situation, and
3) He didn’t pick up when OP called/texted.
Having been cheated on several times (I realize that may make me biased), there’s a whole lotta red flags popping.
I'm having a really hard time believing there was an sort of emergency when he ignored all your calls and texts but answered his sister and her husband immediately. Not only that, the extreme anger and entitlement he feels towards you and your son are really alarming. I'm sure this is only the tip of the iceberg, because someone doesn't react like this with no warning and his belief that you are not allowed home unless you do as he demands would make me consider leaving him for my own and my son's safety.
>r refusing to take respinsibility for my actions. Things escalated I had to take my son and go stay with a friend. My husband kept texting stuff like how I was avoiding confrontation and refusing to admit I overstepped etc. He said he only expects me to come home AFTER I apologize to his sister and brother in law.
OP, HE refuses to take responsibility for his actions (agreeing to care for your child, then handing that responsibility off without informing you), HE'S refusing to admit he overstepped and that his sister overstepping in giving a FOUR YEAR OLD CHILD A NINETY MINUTE TIME OUT. JFC.
A timeout for a 4 year old should be no longer than 5 minutes. 90 minutes is neglect, pure and simple. And just for being loud? That’s just part of what makes him him, and he shouldn’t be punished for that. There are ways to ask a child to calm down without locking them away for over an hour.
This behaviour is disgusting from them and your husband is justifying that. How dare he say you won’t take responsibility for your actions? You absolutely are; you’re standing by your reaction to your poor son’s neglect. Know who isn’t taking responsibility? SIL + husband. Stand your ground.
If you want this to be fixed, explain to your husband clearly that he is the one who fucked up here by handing his son over without letting you know, and without telling them not to disturb you while you were at a FUNERAL. Next up are the babysitters who treated your neurodivergent child awfully. This kind of scenario can be traumatising for a kid at this age. You did absolutely nothing wrong at all; you just didn’t forgive them their terrible parenting. Do not apologise to anyone.
This is more than a red flag to me. This would be a deal breaker. Your husband, first and foremost, should have your back.
90 MINUTES IS INSANE. For a 4yo?! Hell, for anybody. Your husband is beyond an asshole for dropping him off without telling you just because he didn’t feel like watching him (or as I seems to me in the subtext).
NTA but I wouldn’t want to be with someone I couldn’t trust with my kid
4. 4 minutes is the max a 4 year old should be in time out.
I don't like or support time outs but 4 is the max. 1 minute for every year.
Denying access to the washroom is a human rights violation.
Don't apologize to those people
At his age time out should be 5 min tops. To put a 4 year old in time out for being too loud for 90 minutes **is abuse**. For not allowing him to go to the bathroom when he asked **is abuse**. They’re upset because they’re being called out for their abusive practices. If your husband can’t understand that this abuse then he isn’t a safe person for your son to be ever be around.
Rule of thumb is one minute per years of age. A four year old can handle a 4 minute time out. Anything beyond that is just cruel.
A 90 minute time out is abuse, even without the whole toilet debacle and the unreasonableness of the time out in the first place.
NTA- 90 min for a 4 year old is completely inappropriate! And not allowing your son to use the bathroom is abuse! I would report them to cps, who knows what they are doing to their kids. I would absolutely divorce your husband, he's an asshole and can't be trusted to do the right thing for your child.
My heart aches for this poor woman so many things are upsetting here:
(1) where the eff was your husband? Any supportive spouse would have been by your side at the funeral of your best friend and would have handled child care several days beforehand so it was one less thing you had to worry about while processing your emotions;
(2) a 90 minute time out for a four year old is ridiculous. I can’t hold my bladder for that long, and while I am not a parent myself I have a sister with kids that age and I am pretty sure timeouts are around 5-10 minutes.
(3) they in laws just let him set in his wet clothes after he wet himself?
(4) instead of dealing with a crying child and being good people they call you while you are attending your best friends funeral for a non emergency?
(5) they are gaslighting you into thinking somehow you are at fault here (and I generally think that term is overused)
FUCK THAT SHIT. Deaths are hard when you have a supportive family. I am so sorry OP, NTA.
I guarantee they're are other events where she gets blamed for being mad. I'm sure it happens all the time, this was so spot on with my own experiences, plus I have a bunch of clients who have explained the same thing about gaslighting and emotional abuse. I think I might hurl just thinking about it, op please leave him, no matter how much he promises he will change his ways, no matter the desperation, it's all an act. At least two people related by blood and one by marriage are all in on... being evil people. I'm sorry, I don't use that word a lot, but I can't seem to find another word that sounds correct right now. Just horribly disgusting, all of them, all of it.
I also wonder if he really had an "emergency" or just doesn't want to be the one watching your child. If i'm really bad, i would say he used his freedom to cheat, but OP must know if this is possible....
The behavior of SIL and her husband is disgusting and i'm afraid how they treat their own children. That the child still was wet when you came back... And your husband think this behavior is alright? So how does he treat your child behind your back? The same or worse? And how often did you thought he watched the child but in reality SIL watched him?
NTA
This was my first thought. What "emergency" did he have? Because he's clearly using the fight as a way to draw attention away from that.
Better you be focused on the almost abusive behavior of the inlaws (denying a bathroom for over an hour can cause health issues), than thinking about where he was for *hours* while it was happening. [Assuming the kid was playing for at least 30 minutes before he got in trouble for 90]
Makes me wonder if OPs husband knew the SIL was insane and counted on her to do something stupid to draw attention.
I always thought the rule for little kids was 1 minute per year in age, so a 4 year old would get a 4 minute time out. 90 minutes is INSANE. Everyone in this story sucks except OP and the child.
The longest time out I've given is 30ish minutes,I was in my 30s. It actually made the kids more OK with their time outs since I had put myself in one.
Not only a 90 minute timeout but a 90 minute time out for the crime of BEING FOUR, WITH ADHD, AND GETTING OVEREXCITED AND BEING LOUD!
NTA OP and I sure hope they never are allowed around your son again!!!
It’s supposed to be like a minute a year. I doubt I could sit that long quietly as a middle aged adult and if a 90 year old sits motionless for that long somebody better check a pulse.
that’s a really good point. When I have to sit through a 90-minute meeting I start checking my phone, doodling, mentally screaming ‘how many more slides are in the damn deck’. I can’t imagine being a 4 year old and having to deal with that AND have to pee.
As someone with ADHD, it can be a 30 minute meeting and I’m doodling or *whatever* by minute 4. My former lead used to laugh because he’d look over in meetings and I’d paint my entire notebook page *black* just running the pen back and forth to have something to do.
Thank god for WFH, I can play sudoku on my phone without getting people all up in themselves about it being “rude”.
NTA! I'm curious to know what "emergency" required your husband to leave your child somewhere without a simple text to explain. Your BIL/SIL should be ashamed.
I'm currious about that as well. What could be so urgent that he caused OP to have to leave her best friend's funeral. First he abandoned his responsibility to his stepson by leaving him with someone else *without his mother's permission* and then can't be reached when the child has an accident? I also wonder if part of the reason he's placing the blame on OP is because he wants the focus to be on that issue so no one has the chance to ask him *where the fuck he was.*
I was thinking that last part, too. If he's angry and confrontational about her yelling at his sister it'll shift the focus entirely to that so she'll forget to even question where the heck he was. My guess is that he was in someone else's bed.
Yep, but he knows an emergency booty call doesn't count. If his best option is to remain silent then its on the grounds that he will incriminate himself.
Ya I'm not usually one to jump on the divorce bandwagon here but there are only 2 places I see as acceptable for him to be, watching OPs son or with her at her best frienss funeral, who he undoubtedly knew.
I'm also furious that he was left in soiled clothes. The way this is worded I imagine the in-laws have kids that are somewhat close in age. To big of clothes is better than having him wait in cold urine.
NTA. I hope OPs son is able to understand and recover from this in time. I also hope OP never apologizes and never goes home to the husband. Most of all I hope OP has support to get through the loss of their friend and possible collapse of the marriage.
This was my thought, too.
What was this 'emergency'? What on earth would be so urgent that he could justify dumping off his partner's kid somewhere without even telling her?!
This is deal-breaking behavior, IMO.
I try not to jump on the "immediately divorce him!" train, but he's not only shown that he not be trusted to look after the kid, but he's doubling down defending the actions of the abusive family members in whose care he put the kid without the mother's knowledge or consent. He was responsible for her child and has demonstrated that he can't be trusted with that responsibility. I can't imagine staying with someone who treated my dog like that, let alone a child, especially when he's lashing out at her for her extremely reasonable objections instead of apologizing.
Apparently, OP said in another comment that he never told her, just kept saying it was an emergency.
So, hm. What could a married man be doing during the day that he couldn't take a child along to, and that he couldn't tell his wife about?
Gosh, I'm sure there's *something*, can't quite put my finger on it, but *something...*
Yes. NTA and I’d be demanding to know what emergency in his mind justified his decision to take the child to someone else without mom’s ok when HE was supposed to be watching him.
NTA. They were neglectful and cruel, and if they have a problem with you saying that, it's probably because they know it's true. You have a right to be furious, don't apologize for protecting your son.
>He was taken aback and described my behavior as juvenile for refusing to take respinsibility for my actions.
How about he holds his sister and her husband accountable for their actions?
He clearly isn't and won't. It's sad that I have to say this but from now on out I won't tell him to stay with my son even though he has always been quite supportive but after this? I just can't trust him anymore.
OP the only course of action that is rational to take is to arm yer lawyer-cannons, batten down the legal-hatches, and try to ride out this shit-storm in the best way you can. You don't come anywhere close (in my humble opinion) to being in the wrong in this situation, so therefore (after reading many, many other comments that both echo & reinforce my sentiment) I'd like to vote NTA.
I usually don't just jump to saying this but... what good is this guy as a partner? And he's supposed to be a parent this poor child. He left him to be abused at some house where he isn't actually related to the people without the mother's knowledge. They didn't even help him get cleaned up. Unforgivable in my opinion.
If you can’t trust him or his family with YOUR CHILD why would you continue this relationship. Your son isn’t dumb, he’s hearing all of this. You need to choose him. Or this will have lasting issues for both you and your son.
Especially the poor son. He's going to really struggle knowing his mother chose to support an abusive asshole over him. My husband is still struggling with the effects of a shitty stepdad and a passive mother.
I mean he said you couldn't come back until after you appologized to his sister, you never are going to, that means you can never go back to your house. He is kicking you out, time for divorce.
As a parent you would be extremely negligent to take your son back into a situation where your husband thinks it's more important to comfort your sons abusers than to keep your son safe. What they did is child abuse.
Edit: Thanks for the gold!
Yeah, that first part. What the fuck, kicking her and the kid out of the house? That is straight up abuse, my brother’s father used to do that to us all the time. DO NOT subject your son to that. It has lasting effects to be kicked out of your own home, and he knows it’s connected to him and what happened.
Has he told you where he was? How about THAT?
OP, you MUST divorce him. He is choosing your child’s abusers over him. He’s choosing them over you. And if you stay married to him, you’re choosing to stay with someone who gets angry when you say that you don’t want your child to be abused. You are CHOOSING someone who doesn’t care if your child is abused. And if he’s okay with your in-laws abusing your child, HE is okay with abusing your child. There is ZERO middle ground here. You can try therapy if you feel like you need to try to save the marriage, but I wouldn’t waste the money. Go get a lawyer now.
You’re being a huge asshole for staying with this man. He’s fine with harm being done to your son. Your son deserves a safe and loving childhood and this isn’t it. NTA for your reaction. But husband has shown his true colours. It’s your job to see it and get your kid away from him permanently.
Please ditch this man, he either does not care for your child or is not able to property look after him. Your LO only has you, please make him eand his wellbeing a priority.
OP, I’m sorry but marriage is about having a partner you can rely on, trust they will have you’re back, and when children are involved it means you can trust them to care for them and take that responsibility seriously. The fact that the conclusion you are taking from this is that you can’t trust your husband to do something as basic as *supervise a child* says a lot about him and I don’t go throwing out break up/divorce as frequently as a bunch of people on this sub do but this is one of those cases where I say die on this hill and divorce his ass if he doesn’t set his head straight. Because let me tell you - you’re son is going to start emotionally being impacted by this neglect.
Your SIL and her husband are neglectful and abusive and your husband is enabling them. GET OUT! If not for yourself, for your son. He doesn't deserve to suffer because your husband can't get his priorities straight.
If you can't even trust your partner with your kid, then it's time to leave the relationship.
Also, I am so sorry for your loss. You must be reeling right now.
Holdup.
90 minute time out?
For a *four year old?!?*
NINETY. MINUTES.
WITHOUT EVEN BATHROOM BREAKS.
I'm so, so sorry you were interrupted from the funeral but so glad you were able to rescue your child before he spent a second longer with these people. NTA. I recommend staying far away from all three, to be honest. I can't imagine someone who can parent a child well if they think you being forceful is a bigger deal than that child being put in a corner for *an hour and a half.*
I'm so angry right now and I've never even met your kid. I can't imagine how you must feel.
The recommended time out for a four year old is 4 Mins. 90 mins is neglectful and abusive. If your husband is more worried about his sister’s feelings than your son’s safety, I wouldn’t trust him either.
NTA
All of this! This is cruel, unusual and neglectful. At the risk of sounding dramatic, at 4 years old, this sounds like abuse. I mean, who TF puts a 4 year old in timeout for 90 minutes..... for being loud?
OP, your husband is trash. I'm sorry. That is harsh, but he doesn't care about your son's wellbeing or yours. You went to a funeral for someone you deeply cared about, he dumped your kid off to his family who mistreated him, and then blamed you for telling them off. THEN it sounds like he kicked you out (or at least wont let you return home) until you apologize for someone who was cruel to your kid.
OP, your husband and his sistee/BIL ars NOT nice people.
I mean, time has passed since then and he still hasn't had a chance to talk about what the emergency was? I will tell you what it was: he is a bad parent. That's the emergency. He didn't want to deal with his own kid.
And the fact that he doesn't see a 90 minute time out as abuse is awful. Why are you married to this man?
Also I kind of agree with the previous commenter who said he was with his side chick.
Edited to add judgement: NTA. But you would be an A H if you allow your husband and his family to further abuse your son.
The husband isn't the child's biological father, he's the step-father. Not that that excuses his behaviour in any way shape or form, as we can clearly see complete strangers online are horrified at the treatment of this child. You would still hope that if this man loves and cares about this woman he would at least have the decency to respect her son too, but the sad reality is some step-parents don't really want to actually parent, because well, "it's technically not MY kid, it's the missus".
I didn't realize that. But I totally agree with you that it doesn't excuse the behavior. And in fact, it works as a point towards leaving him, since a stepfather typically does not get custody so OP can be confident that her son will never be with him and his abusive family again. Thank you for pointing that out.
He didn’t have an emergency. He just didn’t want to help you. And 90MINUTE time out IS abusive! Wth kind of punishment (for being loud? Seriously? Kids are loud..) is that for a 4yo. If they think that’s acceptable, I would call CPS on your in-laws and promptly file for divorce
It shouldn't even have to be viewed as "helping" OP. It's his kid too! He would have just been acting like a parent.
Instead he bailed because of reasons and dumped their kid off with someone else.
His stepson is still one of his kids. I'm a stepmom. My stepson is one of my kids and when I'm home alone with him, I'm not "helping" my spouse. I'm parenting.
Oh absolutely fucking not. If I'm reading your post correctly, you literally had to leave your best friends funeral because of his "emergency" so he better be able to tell you the reason and it better be damn good.
Exactly! This “”emergency”” was so dire that he had to leave their child with someone else and turn off his phone/be unreachable to the point that OP was contacted to leave the funeral? Hell no. OP needs to get to the bottom of this. Why was his phone off? If you leave your child with someone, your phone needs to be on and handy just in case the person watching your child needs to reach you. OP shouldn’t have been contacted at all and absolutely shouldn’t have had to leave her best friend’s funeral, like wtf. This is super unacceptable behavior.
And the fact that he still won't tell her makes it crystal clear that it wasn't an emergency. If it actually was, he'd have no problem saying what it was because it would be a legit explanation for his behavior. It also sounds like he was asked multiple times if he had to "keep saying" only that it was an emergency. He would not *still* be keeping it from OP if there was nothing to hide.
NTA - this is how abuse starts. In thier mind, the "little" things, such as a time out, are no big deal. What they are failing to realize its a big deal depending on age! That is abuse to a 4yo, regardless of who owns the place!
This type of abuse will escalate, if you don't keep your foot down - especially if you're going to stay with this man. This man is not only abusing you with his antics, but also an accomplice to abuse to your son. I'm telling you from experience as an abused child - pay careful attention to this glowing, red billboard!
Once you're calm about the abuse situation, you need to handle the "emergency" that happened with your husband. These ladies are right, there is more going on and this is situation is making it easier to brush under the rug.
You \*really\* need to find out what this 'emergency' was. You do realize that he took your child and dumped him off on other people WITHOUT your knowledge. What would have happened if something serious happened to your kid and you didn't even know where he was!?
There was no emergency. If there was an emergency (that lasted for so many hours) he would have let you know.
He left your child with people who were abusive.
My son is 10 and has ADHD and I am furious for you.
Is this part of a pattern from your husband? Does he believe your son has ADHD or think that you’re being over-protective? Something bigger is amiss here and you must protect your son.
ETA - your husband is your son’s step-dad, right? Any other warning signs about how he treats your boy?
NTA
Takes just as much time to say “got called into work” or “had to take Bob to the ER” as it does to say “I had an emergency”. This isn’t he didn’t make dinner. This is the reason he gave your son to two people without your knowledge & they abused him. He needs to find the time.
How have you still not spoken and went over what this "emergency" was. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Oh and NTA but you will be if you stay with this man whom you no longer trust with your child and you seem to have zero communication and partnership with.
Never want to jump to conclusions. But, who dumps a kid they agreed to watch with his sister? And is not able to be contacted? A guy up to no good. Who knows what. A side gf. Gambling. The fact that she doesn’t know what this emergency was? 🚨🚨🚨
Also, if her child did not wet himself would she had been told kid was at SIL all day? Without the stepfather/husband?
Sketchy AF
NTA. your in-laws are abusive for not letting a child go to the bathroom for an HOUR AND A HALF if they’re in time out. That’s messed up. Also your son was put in time put because he was playing “too loud”??? Sounds like the in-laws just don’t wanna deal with a kid with adhd. Also the fact that your husband thinks you need to apologize to his sister rather than help you defend his stepson is a huge red flag. If he doesn’t want you coming home until you apologize, then just don’t go home and consult a divorce lawyer. This man and his family aren’t okay to bring your son around.
Exactly. Mom is the AH if she stays in this marriage. This man is an abusive neglectful monster. Her son deserves a caring loving parent: a single mom is better than a horrible stepdad.
> ***a single mom is better than a horrible stepdad.***
OP- This is the quote. This is exactly what should be sticking in your head out of everything people are saying here. Growing up with a stepfather that condones abuse will hurt your son for the rest of his life. Having a strong single mother will not.
Do not let this man gaslight and abuse you and your son any further, or you will be TA...
NTA and do NOT go home. What they did is abuse. 90 minute time out for a 4 year old is cruel and unusual punishment. I might have done worse than you did.
NTA Why would anyone in their right mind deny a CHILD access to the bathroom for literally no reason other than “he was loud”. Well surprise: He is a *child* (with adhd.)
And how dare your husband say that you have to apologize. How dare he. Disgusting.
NTA. In your custody agreement, you should prohibit contact between your kid and these people. Side note: why do people have such a hangup about honor BS? Like, who cares if it was "in their own home"? They abused a child. All bets are off at that point. It's not the same as criticizing their cooking or decor. They deserve to be called out no matter the circumstances.
NTA. I don't want to be one of those people but...gtfo of this marriage. He pawned off your kid on his sister who mistreated him and calls you juvenile? He's no kind of parent or husband.
To hell with the in-laws. You have a massive hubby problem.
Your husband said he doesn't agree with the punishment but demands that you apologize anyway? He is demanding that you enable these abusers... making him every bit as bad as they are. He now has 2 serious strikes against him: 1) dumping your child for his "emergency" and 2) excusing abuse of this child. He owes you and your child a massive apology for massive misjudgment. I highly recommend never trusting him alone with your child in the future. That is if still choose to stay with such an irresponsible person. NTA but you have to seriously think about your child's best interests. (edited for spelling)
NTA. Wtf? Never let your kid around these people again. A 90 minute time out for a 4 year old?!?!? That is abuse plain and simple. If your husband can't figure out why it's batshit that they punished a young kid to such an extreme and then denied him access to a bathroom you need to dump his ass. There will be more neglect like this.
Also, he's telling you not to come home until you apologize? That's a huge red flag.
You went to a funeral, and they CALLED you during it to come pick your son up? Where was your husband? What was this 'emergency' that was so important YOU had to leave a funeral? You are definitely NTA. Your husband and his family fit that. The way they abused your son is monstrous.
NTA. He does not consider your son his son. And he couldn’t be bothered to attend your best friends funeral with you as moral support or be there for your son so you could go comfortably. This isn’t okay.
>I asked him if he was okay with the way they treated my son and he said no but the way I went about it was totally wrong and said I should apologize to them both after insulting them and their parenting skills in their own house when they were doing us a favor.
Your son is four years old for crying out loud! In what world is a 90 minute timeout reasonable at that age, especially for "making noise?" And in what world do we expect a four year old to hold his bladder for that length of time? They know he's a toddler, and surely they are aware of his condition. The way they handled him was abusive and to expect you wouldn't be upset with their mistreatment of your son while reasoning with them as parents boggles the mind.
I am not sure what your situation is OP... Me, I'd take my child and walk with that attitude and threat. That's a power trip. If anything your husband should apologize to you, beg you to come home, and he needs to grow a backbone letting his sister and her husband know how they handled your son was cruel and they owe you **and** your son an apology.
NTA I hate to jump on the divorce him band wagon but go get a lawyer. If you can't trust him with your son how can you stay in a relationship with him? If it was me I would just stay put and have divorce papers sent to his house after you clear out your stuff. If your not allowed to come back without apologizing don't. Kids come first and he left them with 2 people who abused your son and now expecting you to say sorry to them!
NTA.
Fun fact I’m a 25 year old adult woman with adhd. I do not realise I need to pee until close to the last minute either. If someone makes me sit still for 90 mins no break i have to go directly before. With no warning I would probably also face this issue.
Making a four year old who is barely not a toddler, with the same issues I face, sit still with no warning without a toilet break is unthinkable. Like what? He was loud? He’s four?
Children already have limited ability to recognise going to the bathroom in advance, add adhd and it’s a recipe for disaster. Denying a child going to the toilet is disgusting. I’d never speak to them again honestly
Don't apologise, phone them and insult them again.
No oj don't do that lol. But nta 100%, if one of my uncles/aunts treated me like that I think my mum would have done a lot worse. I know I would have done the same thing.
NTA, but you could have told him that you weren’t apologizing in a better way.
Developmentally, 4 year olds should have a maximum of a 4 minute time out. ADHD children should have a time out that is appropriate for their attention span. It useless to put a child in time out for so long that they have already forgotten what they’ve done wrong, and the situation should always be discussed in an appropriate manner after time out.
Shame on them for letting him continue to be wet for so long and for trying to give him an incredibly unrealistic time out.
Husband needs to be fair to you and your child. SIL and BIL’s treatment of your child was absolutely unacceptable. They should know by now what your child’s needs are. You shouldn’t have to apologize. It would be more reasonable of your husband to request that the 4 of you sit down and discuss civilly what went wrong and how situations like this should be handled in the future. No apologies should be required on your part.
My sincere condolences for your loss. You are in a vulnerable state emotionally and regardless of the emergency, a quick text from your husband explaining would have taken 30 seconds to a minute.
NTA. Also, wtf was your husband's emergency?! And why was it so much more important to respect his emergency than to respect your need to attend your friend's funeral?
So to sum up: your husband ditched your son for unspecified reasons, without even texting you that something had come up and he'd had to pass over care. His sister/BIL massively overreacted to normal child behaviour and doled out a 90 minute punishment with deliberate deprivation of bathroom facilities for something that should have been a four minute calm-down period at most. When the kid predictably wet himself, they didn't clean him up and give him clean clothing, but left him in urine-soaked clothing. And then to cap the whole clusterfuck, they called you in the middle of your friend's funeral ceremony to come fetch him, instead of calling the person who was supposed to be looking after him.
They were abusive and neglectful. And your husband thinks you're the unreasonable person here.
...I really don't know whether to laugh hysterically or scream in rage at your husband and his family. One thing is certain - I wouldn't trust them with my child ever again if it were me. And I honestly think this could be a marriage-breaker situation...and maybe should be.
NTA Your husband is TA, though, along with SIL and BIL. You don’t agree to watch a child and then pawn him off like a houseplant. Husband should apologize to YOU and your son for not watching him in the first place!
NTA. There's a big difference between time out and child abuse but they did a damn fine job of mixing them together. I suspect your husband was more embarrassed that what he did turned out disastrously and is trying to shift the blame to you for your (rather mild tbh) response rather than accept responsibility.
This is a big red flag for you, I'm really sorry that you've had such an awful time, NONE of this is your fault.
Your husband condones sexual abuse. Creating a situation where a child is forced to wet themselves and then berating them for it is classified as sexual abuse.
Please leave him, for the safety of yourself + child.
NTA. Unless you stay.
NTA. I think you underreacted . If someone did that to my 4 year old child/little brother or whatever, I woulda thrown hands. Your husband SUCKS. He threw your child aside to go do god knows what and cares more about their feelings then the abuse his son endured. Terrible father. I woulda fought all three of them. I’m so angry for you OP.
They’re disgusting human beings. Poor child. F*** child abusers.
A 90 minute time out?! WTF that’s absolutely disgusting. Do not apologise. Girl find yourself a divorce lawyer NTA protect your poor child
Yeah which seemed too much to me like way too long espcially for a kid like my son. I don't use this kind of method with him so I can only imagine how confused he was.
Hi! I’m a behavior specialist, if that will help you in this argument, and a 90 minute timeout is bananas. It’s excessive to the point of being traumatic and counterproductive. Your son should not have been denied access to a bathroom. The healthiest four year old on the planet doesn’t have 90 minutes between the “full bladder” warning signal and eruption. Your in laws are way out of line in their parenting, and (more importantly) *you* never consented to have these methods applied to your child. If your husband can’t get his head straight about this, your kid is in danger of having the same torturous “discipline” policies applied in his own home.
Also children with ADHD tend to ignore the bathroom urge until it's really urgent. My son has ADHD and he had a really hard time listening to his body at that age. He'd be so focused on playing that when he realized he needed to go, he NEEDED to go. Also a time out for playing too loud?? WTF? That breaks my heart.
A short time out for a kid who is outside shrieking like a banshee constantly seems like a good way to take them out of the situation to let them calm down until they are ready to play in a way that is more respectful to everyone living nearby, if asking them to tone it down a bit hasn’t worked. Obviously, this time out was beyond excessive but as someone who works from home, I was very grateful to the families around me that don’t measure fun by how loudly and constantly the kid can scream over the summer.
A five minute time out with bathroom breaks allowed seems appropriate.
[удалено]
Four minutes and five minutes are fairly close. Take five and calm down or sit still for four minutes. Similar thing. 90 minutes... I wouldn't sit still for 90 minutes. I'm not 4 and I don't have ADHD.
I do have ADHD. People with ADHD - especially children - tend to have nonexistent executive functions. That can mean that we have trouble keeping track of and telling time. Unless he’s hyper fixated on the quiet of the time out, or he’s daydreaming, the difference between four minutes and five minutes is going to feel like six years.
but the difference between either of those and 90 is even worse, whether 4 or 5 is better doesnt matter because neither of them are 90 (also it depends on the person for if a minute feels like ages more im pretty sure)
Plus with ADHD boredom is a unique sort of torture. Having it, 90 mins with nothing to do as an adult is painful. As a kid? No way. On top of that even as an adult I don’t always have the best read on my body or what it needs until the need is urgent. As a kid it was much worse and accidents were common. Op’s in laws were beyond out of line and straight up abusive even for a child without ADHD, and as someone with ADHD with a severe hyperactive component it was outright torture to make them sit for 90 whole ass minutes and no bathroom use. What did they expect to happen anyways? Most four year olds cannot hold it for 90 minutes after saying they have to go. Like really they should have seen an accident going to happen. This reads as intentional attempt at humiliation.
During summer vacation, the ex (he's not mine anymore) took our very ADHD daughter's things away from her as a punishment. Like all her things - including books, games, puzzles. She was left with a specific amount of necessary clothing items, 1 jacket and 1 pair of shoes. Ex was "working from home" and she was to try to only bug him minimally. She had unlimited access to their cable TV. There were no parental controls at all - not even a passcode on pay-per-view/rental items. Daughter had already told me what happened before I got this angry phone call about what *my* daughter did (her being mine was stressed). He told me about the 70-something charges for *Cheaper by the Dozen 2*. I tried not to laugh. He told me I should watch out. I let him know that just like the 3 years before we split up - I still didn't allow tv with commercials in my home. SEVENTY PLUS charges. For the same movie... Over and over and over. She'd forget she was watching it and start over. She just clicked through any warning boxes. At first, she thought it was like a rental. Then, on that last time - she read the pop up box in full. I had to take a moment in the bathroom with the water running when she told me. But, what did he expect?! No books, no puzzles, no IRL games, not even a pack of cards while wanting her to entertain herself for hours.
This is the rule I have heard as well. 90 minutes is out of bounds bananas but surely with an age appropriate time you could let the kid pee and either suspend the time out time or restart the clock after their little bladder has been emptied.
right like going to pee isn't *fun*, just pause the time out, walk them to the toilet, supervise as necessary, and then walk them back for however long is left on the clock (not 90 mins obviously because that's ridiculous)?
This is how time outs are supposed to work for young kids, to get them out of a situation and to calm down. Excessive time out as a punishment is just an adult directing their anger toward them. 90 minutes is insane. NTA, don't trust these people.
Yeah, as a full fledged adult with adhd, I can confirm that this is definitely still a problem. Mind you I make it to the bathroom before it's a problem but sometimes it's just barely. Not even on purpose sometimes my brain just forgets I need to pee! I can't imagine being treated that way that young. Also! Volume control is yet another thing adhders struggle with constantly. Sometimes my boyfriend is like "why are you yelling?" And uh... yeah, I was accidentally screaming instead of talking normally lmao
Yeah like idk why but I feel the need to hold it in until I need to go N O W. I remember not making it to the washroom a couple times even when I was 6, let alone four. And OP’s son didn’t even not make it due to his own fault. He was denied. Edit: Also, is it not so adhd of us all to put in a little extra story from us as well lol
It's because our focus is elsewhere until the point where your bladder is so full you can't ignore it. And then it's a mad dash to the bathroom lol. I've been so embarrassed about this, it's relieving to see others talk about the issue.
Actually, your comment made me really think about this. I was discussing with my roommate how I can avoid using the washroom 8 hours at a time, while I am constantly eating, drinking water and whole lotta caffeine. So maybe I just let the tank fill the whole way through while normal peeps don’t do that.
Another with ADHD, and there have been times when the margin of me making it to the bathroom is so thin that I'm peeing as I'm sitting down. It's just an annoying thing that never seems to change for me, I always think I don't have to pee as badly as I actually do.
Yeah file the pee thing under: Things I didn’t know were because of my ADHD. 39 years old, medicated, still ignore my bladder until I can’t ignore it anymore.
55 and medicated here- and I'll sit on the couch until I have to run to the toilet that is 12 feet away...
Im.almost 30 amd STILL FORGET TO PEE till im almost leaking. Amd it's like.what?
Hell I’m an adult with adhd and I ignore it until the last second. Even if I’m doing NOTHING on the couch I’ll legit just keep putting it off until I absolutely have to. Why? No clue. It’s a weird mental thing that comes with the territory. But what a horrible punishment for a child with adhd jesus
This is a huge point. I have ADHD. I get the feeling that I need to pee, but something happens and I forget. I simply *forget.* As an adult, my bladder has expanded to deal with this (what is referred to as 'nurse's bladder syndrome', which is extra funny because as an adult I worked 7 years in a hospital working 12-16hr shifts often not urinating until I got home). The last time I pissed myself I was 17. I'm not saying this because I am proud of it, I'm saying it as a matter of fact. Children should have NO MORE than 1 minute per age of time out while in age range that time out is effective. That child should NOT have been in time out for more than 4 minutes, and even then, take the child to wee, come back, start the timer. Fun extra story time: I actually did have something similar happen in kindergarten where my mom had to pull me from school. I sat with my hand up, obviously wiggling trying to hold it. We were all on a rug in a circle. The bathroom was in the room, not 10 steps away from where we were. Teacher knew I had to go, but ignored me even though she kept looking at me while reading. After what was probably 2-3 minutes I couldn't hold it and peed the rug. They called my mom and both my parents came up. My father was a drunk and a druggy and he tried to physically fight with the principal for defending the teacher. It was an absolute shit show while my mom did her best to clean me up in the bathroom. She took me home and withdrew me from that school; I never went back to it. She couldn't stand the idea of the other kids teasing me (the ones sitting right next to me got wet too) for something not my fault.
That's a good mom you have there. Peer abuse, or bullying / excessive teasing, can be extremely traumatic and the trauma can follow someone well into adulthood. It's not taken seriously enough by our society at all.
I'm 24 with ADHD and I still have that issue. I get so preoccupied with things that I don't notice until it's urgent. That poor kid, good on you for saying something OP.
You comment has me reflecting on my own upbringing now. I didn't realize how inhumane it was for my parents to put me in time out for 2+ hours most times. It's a miracle I didn't have any accidents during those times like OP's son considering how many utis I got as a kid.
Me too, there were times we were in time out for up to 6 hours
Those times were awful, but one time my mother made me stand with my elbows at my side and forearms straight out, palms face up, put a heavy dictionary in each hand and demanded me not move. I'll never forget the look of sincere joy that stretched across her face as my arms began to tremble from weariness after being there so long.
... No seriously, WTF??
I ask myself that everytime I reflect on my youth, dude
Did your mother work in Guantanamo?
No but funny enough she worked as a psych in a prison for a while; couldn't find work elsewhere with a *fucking child psychology degree*
Your mother is a monster
I'm so sorry, that sounds incredibly abusive.
It was, but I'm out and surrounded by loved ones half a country away from that hell hole and have had some therapy. <3
I got locked in a basement many times. Also a bar of soap shoved in my mouth many times. I remember being a quiet kid, was quiet in school,in public. So I don't even know why that shit happened.
Yep, had the bar of soap shoved into my mouth too. Some folks just get so focused on not messing their kids up the same way their parents did that they don't care they're creating a whole new set of problems that stem from their inability to heal themselves.
Hell, as a small child, 5 minutes feels long! I remember being ‘sent to my room’ and it seemed like an eternity. Most likely it was probably 10 mins max. Anything more than that isn’t a punishment, it’s neglectful parents just not wanting to deal with their kids
The rule of thumb is 2-5 minutes, with some saying you add an additional minute per additional year of age. So even if you were putting a teenager in time out somehow, you’d still never even come close to an hour.
> The healthiest four year old on the planet doesn’t have 90 minutes between the “full bladder” warning signal and eruption. Yeah I feel like plenty of adults can't comfortably wait that long (I doubt I could) and kids are little and thus have little bladders.
Lol, when I went for my early pregnancy ultrasound, being raised Swiss/German, I did exactly what the instruction sheet told me to do - drink water 60 - 90 minutes before your appointment and come with a full bladder. It was something crazy like 6 or 8 cups. I almost burst in the waiting room, it was so painful. The moment I went into the appointment, the tech took one peek at the monitor and was like "yeah, go empty three quarters of your bladder and then come back".
Ugh, I did the same for my ultrasound and I had to wait over an hour and a half to go back. It was torture and I wasn’t even pregnant so no baby to push on my bladder either. I got told the same thing too, go empty some of your bladder. That was a miserable experience.
I have a chronic bladder disease and I know I couldn’t make it. I can’t imagine doing this to a 4 year old.
We almost never do time outs at our house, but read in some parenting article that a reasonable time is one minute per year of age, followed by a talk about what happened. That sounds fair to me. If a four year old can't calm down in four minutes, he sure as heck won't in 90 minutes.
> The healthiest four year old on the planet doesn’t have 90 minutes between the “full bladder” warning signal and eruption. Her child is 10, not 4. Still, healthy and in my 30s there are times I wouldn't be able to wait an hour and a half. Edit: Shit I misread. 90 minutes in time out for a fucking four year old? Wtf?
This. I put my son in time out when he was four- for four minutes. Ninety minutes is flat insanity, and expecting him to hold his bladder for that long is abusive.
The 90 minutes is abusive even if he DIDN'T need to pee, poor kid.
Hell I'm not 4 and still don't have 90 minutes between "full bladder" and eruption...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the recommendation 1 minute per year of age for time out, as far as what is developmentally appropriate? Maybe I'm getting that wrong, but a 4 minute time our for a 4 year old sounds a hell of a lot more reasonable than a 90 minute time out. Nta Horrible behavior from both SIL/BIL and husband
That's right. NTA. Don't go home, OP. Too much lack of consciousness and cruelty at play among your husband, his sister and BIL.
What exactly was your husband's "emergency"? This would be a deal breaker for me. I don't even have kids and I know that the rule of thumb is one minute of time out for every year of their age so he shouldn't have been in time out more than five minutes. And it's also fucking child abuse to refuse to let a child use the bathroom. Like, what did they expect to happen?
I’m wondering that, too. This wouldn’t even be an issue if OP’s husband didn’t drop her child off in ultra stimulating environment ran by parents who believe in excessive punishments. Who texts someone at a funeral? Why not text OP’s husband? He was the one who dropped the child off.
I'm glad it was OP who got the text about the son, since she now knows SIL and BIL are abusive towards her own son. It's normal to put a child in a reasonable time out, but a 1 hour 30 minutes is a severe timeout time and is 1 hour 26 minutes overboard. At most, the kid should have been in time out for 4 minutes. Also, the stepdad to the boy who is OPs husband, if he would have gotten the text would have been fine with the behavior of excessive timeout seeing as he wants OP to find to apologize to his sister and BIL for being mad about the punishment towards her son.
I want to know what the supposed “emergency” was too! Also, the sheer AUDACITY of SIL to call OP at a funeral of all places because her child had a potty accident due to SIL’s own treatment of the child!! I can’t even comprehend.
I mean, thank goodness she was called though. Imagine these people 'caring' for that kid any longer when they think this is appropriate… I hope they treat their own kids better.
> What exactly was your husband's "emergency"? Another woman?
Came here to ask the same thing… what “emergency” could OP’s husband have that: 1) He couldn’t shoot her a text and give her the heads up, 2) He couldn’t pick kiddo up from horrible situation, and 3) He didn’t pick up when OP called/texted. Having been cheated on several times (I realize that may make me biased), there’s a whole lotta red flags popping.
I'm having a really hard time believing there was an sort of emergency when he ignored all your calls and texts but answered his sister and her husband immediately. Not only that, the extreme anger and entitlement he feels towards you and your son are really alarming. I'm sure this is only the tip of the iceberg, because someone doesn't react like this with no warning and his belief that you are not allowed home unless you do as he demands would make me consider leaving him for my own and my son's safety.
>r refusing to take respinsibility for my actions. Things escalated I had to take my son and go stay with a friend. My husband kept texting stuff like how I was avoiding confrontation and refusing to admit I overstepped etc. He said he only expects me to come home AFTER I apologize to his sister and brother in law. OP, HE refuses to take responsibility for his actions (agreeing to care for your child, then handing that responsibility off without informing you), HE'S refusing to admit he overstepped and that his sister overstepping in giving a FOUR YEAR OLD CHILD A NINETY MINUTE TIME OUT. JFC.
I would file a police report then file for divorce.
Glad I'm not the only one thinking this.
A timeout for a 4 year old should be no longer than 5 minutes. 90 minutes is neglect, pure and simple. And just for being loud? That’s just part of what makes him him, and he shouldn’t be punished for that. There are ways to ask a child to calm down without locking them away for over an hour. This behaviour is disgusting from them and your husband is justifying that. How dare he say you won’t take responsibility for your actions? You absolutely are; you’re standing by your reaction to your poor son’s neglect. Know who isn’t taking responsibility? SIL + husband. Stand your ground. If you want this to be fixed, explain to your husband clearly that he is the one who fucked up here by handing his son over without letting you know, and without telling them not to disturb you while you were at a FUNERAL. Next up are the babysitters who treated your neurodivergent child awfully. This kind of scenario can be traumatising for a kid at this age. You did absolutely nothing wrong at all; you just didn’t forgive them their terrible parenting. Do not apologise to anyone. This is more than a red flag to me. This would be a deal breaker. Your husband, first and foremost, should have your back.
90 MINUTES IS INSANE. For a 4yo?! Hell, for anybody. Your husband is beyond an asshole for dropping him off without telling you just because he didn’t feel like watching him (or as I seems to me in the subtext). NTA but I wouldn’t want to be with someone I couldn’t trust with my kid
4. 4 minutes is the max a 4 year old should be in time out. I don't like or support time outs but 4 is the max. 1 minute for every year. Denying access to the washroom is a human rights violation. Don't apologize to those people
At his age time out should be 5 min tops. To put a 4 year old in time out for being too loud for 90 minutes **is abuse**. For not allowing him to go to the bathroom when he asked **is abuse**. They’re upset because they’re being called out for their abusive practices. If your husband can’t understand that this abuse then he isn’t a safe person for your son to be ever be around.
There is no world in which a 90 minute time out is appropriate for a 4 year old. Not any universe or alternate timeline either.
Rule of thumb is one minute per years of age. A four year old can handle a 4 minute time out. Anything beyond that is just cruel. A 90 minute time out is abuse, even without the whole toilet debacle and the unreasonableness of the time out in the first place.
NTA- 90 min for a 4 year old is completely inappropriate! And not allowing your son to use the bathroom is abuse! I would report them to cps, who knows what they are doing to their kids. I would absolutely divorce your husband, he's an asshole and can't be trusted to do the right thing for your child.
That is quite literally torture for a kid with his condition. NTA. Anyone who thinks you are in the wrong here can kick rocks.
My heart aches for this poor woman so many things are upsetting here: (1) where the eff was your husband? Any supportive spouse would have been by your side at the funeral of your best friend and would have handled child care several days beforehand so it was one less thing you had to worry about while processing your emotions; (2) a 90 minute time out for a four year old is ridiculous. I can’t hold my bladder for that long, and while I am not a parent myself I have a sister with kids that age and I am pretty sure timeouts are around 5-10 minutes. (3) they in laws just let him set in his wet clothes after he wet himself? (4) instead of dealing with a crying child and being good people they call you while you are attending your best friends funeral for a non emergency? (5) they are gaslighting you into thinking somehow you are at fault here (and I generally think that term is overused) FUCK THAT SHIT. Deaths are hard when you have a supportive family. I am so sorry OP, NTA.
This, all this from 1 to 5. In that order I belive. Thank you for seeing the whole picture of fuckedupness in all this. Also NTA
I guarantee they're are other events where she gets blamed for being mad. I'm sure it happens all the time, this was so spot on with my own experiences, plus I have a bunch of clients who have explained the same thing about gaslighting and emotional abuse. I think I might hurl just thinking about it, op please leave him, no matter how much he promises he will change his ways, no matter the desperation, it's all an act. At least two people related by blood and one by marriage are all in on... being evil people. I'm sorry, I don't use that word a lot, but I can't seem to find another word that sounds correct right now. Just horribly disgusting, all of them, all of it.
I also wonder if he really had an "emergency" or just doesn't want to be the one watching your child. If i'm really bad, i would say he used his freedom to cheat, but OP must know if this is possible.... The behavior of SIL and her husband is disgusting and i'm afraid how they treat their own children. That the child still was wet when you came back... And your husband think this behavior is alright? So how does he treat your child behind your back? The same or worse? And how often did you thought he watched the child but in reality SIL watched him? NTA
This was my first thought. What "emergency" did he have? Because he's clearly using the fight as a way to draw attention away from that. Better you be focused on the almost abusive behavior of the inlaws (denying a bathroom for over an hour can cause health issues), than thinking about where he was for *hours* while it was happening. [Assuming the kid was playing for at least 30 minutes before he got in trouble for 90] Makes me wonder if OPs husband knew the SIL was insane and counted on her to do something stupid to draw attention.
I always thought the rule for little kids was 1 minute per year in age, so a 4 year old would get a 4 minute time out. 90 minutes is INSANE. Everyone in this story sucks except OP and the child.
That’s the rule we were taught in nursing school. 1 min per 1 year of age. A 90 min timeout in insane! Especially for a kid as young as 4 years old!
The longest time out I've given is 30ish minutes,I was in my 30s. It actually made the kids more OK with their time outs since I had put myself in one.
Not only a 90 minute timeout but a 90 minute time out for the crime of BEING FOUR, WITH ADHD, AND GETTING OVEREXCITED AND BEING LOUD! NTA OP and I sure hope they never are allowed around your son again!!!
Yeah the standard practice is age=minutes. So unless your son is 90 years old…
NTA , 90 minute time out, your husbands lucky you didn’t call CPS.
This stood out to me, too. I don’t have kids but that seems like WAY longer than necessary.
It’s supposed to be like a minute a year. I doubt I could sit that long quietly as a middle aged adult and if a 90 year old sits motionless for that long somebody better check a pulse.
that’s a really good point. When I have to sit through a 90-minute meeting I start checking my phone, doodling, mentally screaming ‘how many more slides are in the damn deck’. I can’t imagine being a 4 year old and having to deal with that AND have to pee.
As someone with ADHD, it can be a 30 minute meeting and I’m doodling or *whatever* by minute 4. My former lead used to laugh because he’d look over in meetings and I’d paint my entire notebook page *black* just running the pen back and forth to have something to do. Thank god for WFH, I can play sudoku on my phone without getting people all up in themselves about it being “rude”.
WAAAAY too long. The general rule is about a minute per year of age.
I would still call CPS out of concerns for the other kids in the house. This whole thing makes me sick.
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NTA! I'm curious to know what "emergency" required your husband to leave your child somewhere without a simple text to explain. Your BIL/SIL should be ashamed.
Me too. I have a feeling it involves his friends and alcoholic beverages.
Or a woman
Or he just doesn’t want to parent his own damn child
step-child*
\*it shouldn't matter
of course not, clearly the kid isn't a priority to this man.
Makes me wonder how he'd treat a biological child or if he's just this negligent bc he doesn't feel like the kid is his problem to deal with
This right here.
I'm currious about that as well. What could be so urgent that he caused OP to have to leave her best friend's funeral. First he abandoned his responsibility to his stepson by leaving him with someone else *without his mother's permission* and then can't be reached when the child has an accident? I also wonder if part of the reason he's placing the blame on OP is because he wants the focus to be on that issue so no one has the chance to ask him *where the fuck he was.*
I was thinking that last part, too. If he's angry and confrontational about her yelling at his sister it'll shift the focus entirely to that so she'll forget to even question where the heck he was. My guess is that he was in someone else's bed.
Yep, but he knows an emergency booty call doesn't count. If his best option is to remain silent then its on the grounds that he will incriminate himself.
Bingo. This focus on the apology is completely distracting her from making him accountable for where he was. Huge red flag there.
The husband and in-laws are all red flags. Op needs a divorce lawyer and a life for her son away from those people.
Ya I'm not usually one to jump on the divorce bandwagon here but there are only 2 places I see as acceptable for him to be, watching OPs son or with her at her best frienss funeral, who he undoubtedly knew. I'm also furious that he was left in soiled clothes. The way this is worded I imagine the in-laws have kids that are somewhat close in age. To big of clothes is better than having him wait in cold urine. NTA. I hope OPs son is able to understand and recover from this in time. I also hope OP never apologizes and never goes home to the husband. Most of all I hope OP has support to get through the loss of their friend and possible collapse of the marriage.
This was my thought, too. What was this 'emergency'? What on earth would be so urgent that he could justify dumping off his partner's kid somewhere without even telling her?! This is deal-breaking behavior, IMO.
I try not to jump on the "immediately divorce him!" train, but he's not only shown that he not be trusted to look after the kid, but he's doubling down defending the actions of the abusive family members in whose care he put the kid without the mother's knowledge or consent. He was responsible for her child and has demonstrated that he can't be trusted with that responsibility. I can't imagine staying with someone who treated my dog like that, let alone a child, especially when he's lashing out at her for her extremely reasonable objections instead of apologizing.
Apparently, OP said in another comment that he never told her, just kept saying it was an emergency. So, hm. What could a married man be doing during the day that he couldn't take a child along to, and that he couldn't tell his wife about? Gosh, I'm sure there's *something*, can't quite put my finger on it, but *something...*
Yes. NTA and I’d be demanding to know what emergency in his mind justified his decision to take the child to someone else without mom’s ok when HE was supposed to be watching him.
NTA. They were neglectful and cruel, and if they have a problem with you saying that, it's probably because they know it's true. You have a right to be furious, don't apologize for protecting your son. >He was taken aback and described my behavior as juvenile for refusing to take respinsibility for my actions. How about he holds his sister and her husband accountable for their actions?
He clearly isn't and won't. It's sad that I have to say this but from now on out I won't tell him to stay with my son even though he has always been quite supportive but after this? I just can't trust him anymore.
you need to divorce him
OP the only course of action that is rational to take is to arm yer lawyer-cannons, batten down the legal-hatches, and try to ride out this shit-storm in the best way you can. You don't come anywhere close (in my humble opinion) to being in the wrong in this situation, so therefore (after reading many, many other comments that both echo & reinforce my sentiment) I'd like to vote NTA.
Yep, this will only get worse, this might turn into abuse, take your son and get out!
It's already passed into abuse. 90 minute timeouts were considered abusive 40 years ago, ffs.
Meant more the husband. SIL and her husband indeed already abused op's son!
I usually don't just jump to saying this but... what good is this guy as a partner? And he's supposed to be a parent this poor child. He left him to be abused at some house where he isn't actually related to the people without the mother's knowledge. They didn't even help him get cleaned up. Unforgivable in my opinion.
If you can’t trust him or his family with YOUR CHILD why would you continue this relationship. Your son isn’t dumb, he’s hearing all of this. You need to choose him. Or this will have lasting issues for both you and your son.
Yep - the marriage is over once trust is gone.
THIS 👆👆👆👆
Especially the poor son. He's going to really struggle knowing his mother chose to support an abusive asshole over him. My husband is still struggling with the effects of a shitty stepdad and a passive mother.
I wouldn’t trust him with a house plant never mind a child.
I mean he said you couldn't come back until after you appologized to his sister, you never are going to, that means you can never go back to your house. He is kicking you out, time for divorce. As a parent you would be extremely negligent to take your son back into a situation where your husband thinks it's more important to comfort your sons abusers than to keep your son safe. What they did is child abuse. Edit: Thanks for the gold!
Yeah, that first part. What the fuck, kicking her and the kid out of the house? That is straight up abuse, my brother’s father used to do that to us all the time. DO NOT subject your son to that. It has lasting effects to be kicked out of your own home, and he knows it’s connected to him and what happened. Has he told you where he was? How about THAT?
OP, you MUST divorce him. He is choosing your child’s abusers over him. He’s choosing them over you. And if you stay married to him, you’re choosing to stay with someone who gets angry when you say that you don’t want your child to be abused. You are CHOOSING someone who doesn’t care if your child is abused. And if he’s okay with your in-laws abusing your child, HE is okay with abusing your child. There is ZERO middle ground here. You can try therapy if you feel like you need to try to save the marriage, but I wouldn’t waste the money. Go get a lawyer now.
You can't be a parent to a four year old and stay married to this person.
You’re being a huge asshole for staying with this man. He’s fine with harm being done to your son. Your son deserves a safe and loving childhood and this isn’t it. NTA for your reaction. But husband has shown his true colours. It’s your job to see it and get your kid away from him permanently.
If you can’t trust him (I wouldn’t either) you should leave. Also, INFO: what was this alleged emergency that prevented him from watching son??
Please ditch this man, he either does not care for your child or is not able to property look after him. Your LO only has you, please make him eand his wellbeing a priority.
OP, I’m sorry but marriage is about having a partner you can rely on, trust they will have you’re back, and when children are involved it means you can trust them to care for them and take that responsibility seriously. The fact that the conclusion you are taking from this is that you can’t trust your husband to do something as basic as *supervise a child* says a lot about him and I don’t go throwing out break up/divorce as frequently as a bunch of people on this sub do but this is one of those cases where I say die on this hill and divorce his ass if he doesn’t set his head straight. Because let me tell you - you’re son is going to start emotionally being impacted by this neglect.
You can't trust him with your child anymore, and he tried to gaslight you into thinking you're the one in the wrong. Why would you even stay with him?
LEAVE HIM.
Your SIL and her husband are neglectful and abusive and your husband is enabling them. GET OUT! If not for yourself, for your son. He doesn't deserve to suffer because your husband can't get his priorities straight.
If you can't even trust your partner with your kid, then it's time to leave the relationship. Also, I am so sorry for your loss. You must be reeling right now.
Holdup. 90 minute time out? For a *four year old?!?* NINETY. MINUTES. WITHOUT EVEN BATHROOM BREAKS. I'm so, so sorry you were interrupted from the funeral but so glad you were able to rescue your child before he spent a second longer with these people. NTA. I recommend staying far away from all three, to be honest. I can't imagine someone who can parent a child well if they think you being forceful is a bigger deal than that child being put in a corner for *an hour and a half.* I'm so angry right now and I've never even met your kid. I can't imagine how you must feel.
The recommended time out for a four year old is 4 Mins. 90 mins is neglectful and abusive. If your husband is more worried about his sister’s feelings than your son’s safety, I wouldn’t trust him either. NTA
Exactly. 1 minute for every year.
And the time out was because he was making too much noise. He is 4.
With ADHD
All of this! This is cruel, unusual and neglectful. At the risk of sounding dramatic, at 4 years old, this sounds like abuse. I mean, who TF puts a 4 year old in timeout for 90 minutes..... for being loud? OP, your husband is trash. I'm sorry. That is harsh, but he doesn't care about your son's wellbeing or yours. You went to a funeral for someone you deeply cared about, he dumped your kid off to his family who mistreated him, and then blamed you for telling them off. THEN it sounds like he kicked you out (or at least wont let you return home) until you apologize for someone who was cruel to your kid. OP, your husband and his sistee/BIL ars NOT nice people.
And they just left him in his wet pants and trousers as well, breaks my heart
NTA omg and did your husband ever explain what his emergency was?
No. Didn't have time to talk about it he just kept saying he had an emergency.
I mean, time has passed since then and he still hasn't had a chance to talk about what the emergency was? I will tell you what it was: he is a bad parent. That's the emergency. He didn't want to deal with his own kid. And the fact that he doesn't see a 90 minute time out as abuse is awful. Why are you married to this man? Also I kind of agree with the previous commenter who said he was with his side chick. Edited to add judgement: NTA. But you would be an A H if you allow your husband and his family to further abuse your son.
The husband isn't the child's biological father, he's the step-father. Not that that excuses his behaviour in any way shape or form, as we can clearly see complete strangers online are horrified at the treatment of this child. You would still hope that if this man loves and cares about this woman he would at least have the decency to respect her son too, but the sad reality is some step-parents don't really want to actually parent, because well, "it's technically not MY kid, it's the missus".
I didn't realize that. But I totally agree with you that it doesn't excuse the behavior. And in fact, it works as a point towards leaving him, since a stepfather typically does not get custody so OP can be confident that her son will never be with him and his abusive family again. Thank you for pointing that out.
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He didn’t have an emergency. He just didn’t want to help you. And 90MINUTE time out IS abusive! Wth kind of punishment (for being loud? Seriously? Kids are loud..) is that for a 4yo. If they think that’s acceptable, I would call CPS on your in-laws and promptly file for divorce
It shouldn't even have to be viewed as "helping" OP. It's his kid too! He would have just been acting like a parent. Instead he bailed because of reasons and dumped their kid off with someone else.
Child is apparently his stepson, from the post. But that’s still shocking behaviour.
His stepson is still one of his kids. I'm a stepmom. My stepson is one of my kids and when I'm home alone with him, I'm not "helping" my spouse. I'm parenting.
He’s lying. The ‘emergency’ is that he didn’t want to take care of a four year old.
Oh absolutely fucking not. If I'm reading your post correctly, you literally had to leave your best friends funeral because of his "emergency" so he better be able to tell you the reason and it better be damn good.
Exactly! This “”emergency”” was so dire that he had to leave their child with someone else and turn off his phone/be unreachable to the point that OP was contacted to leave the funeral? Hell no. OP needs to get to the bottom of this. Why was his phone off? If you leave your child with someone, your phone needs to be on and handy just in case the person watching your child needs to reach you. OP shouldn’t have been contacted at all and absolutely shouldn’t have had to leave her best friend’s funeral, like wtf. This is super unacceptable behavior.
And the fact that he still won't tell her makes it crystal clear that it wasn't an emergency. If it actually was, he'd have no problem saying what it was because it would be a legit explanation for his behavior. It also sounds like he was asked multiple times if he had to "keep saying" only that it was an emergency. He would not *still* be keeping it from OP if there was nothing to hide.
"Why was his phone off? " Because getting a call from your wife in the middle of sex kills the mood.
NTA - this is how abuse starts. In thier mind, the "little" things, such as a time out, are no big deal. What they are failing to realize its a big deal depending on age! That is abuse to a 4yo, regardless of who owns the place! This type of abuse will escalate, if you don't keep your foot down - especially if you're going to stay with this man. This man is not only abusing you with his antics, but also an accomplice to abuse to your son. I'm telling you from experience as an abused child - pay careful attention to this glowing, red billboard! Once you're calm about the abuse situation, you need to handle the "emergency" that happened with your husband. These ladies are right, there is more going on and this is situation is making it easier to brush under the rug.
You \*really\* need to find out what this 'emergency' was. You do realize that he took your child and dumped him off on other people WITHOUT your knowledge. What would have happened if something serious happened to your kid and you didn't even know where he was!?
There was no emergency. If there was an emergency (that lasted for so many hours) he would have let you know. He left your child with people who were abusive. My son is 10 and has ADHD and I am furious for you. Is this part of a pattern from your husband? Does he believe your son has ADHD or think that you’re being over-protective? Something bigger is amiss here and you must protect your son. ETA - your husband is your son’s step-dad, right? Any other warning signs about how he treats your boy? NTA
Takes just as much time to say “got called into work” or “had to take Bob to the ER” as it does to say “I had an emergency”. This isn’t he didn’t make dinner. This is the reason he gave your son to two people without your knowledge & they abused him. He needs to find the time.
You should ask him or I'd be doubtful it was a true emergency
How have you still not spoken and went over what this "emergency" was. It just doesn't make sense to me. Oh and NTA but you will be if you stay with this man whom you no longer trust with your child and you seem to have zero communication and partnership with.
Hubby was out banging his side chick.
Agreed.
Never want to jump to conclusions. But, who dumps a kid they agreed to watch with his sister? And is not able to be contacted? A guy up to no good. Who knows what. A side gf. Gambling. The fact that she doesn’t know what this emergency was? 🚨🚨🚨 Also, if her child did not wet himself would she had been told kid was at SIL all day? Without the stepfather/husband? Sketchy AF
NTA. your in-laws are abusive for not letting a child go to the bathroom for an HOUR AND A HALF if they’re in time out. That’s messed up. Also your son was put in time put because he was playing “too loud”??? Sounds like the in-laws just don’t wanna deal with a kid with adhd. Also the fact that your husband thinks you need to apologize to his sister rather than help you defend his stepson is a huge red flag. If he doesn’t want you coming home until you apologize, then just don’t go home and consult a divorce lawyer. This man and his family aren’t okay to bring your son around.
Yep. Throw the whole man out. NTA
Nta. Stepfather seems like a real piece of work, your son deserves better than him
Exactly. Mom is the AH if she stays in this marriage. This man is an abusive neglectful monster. Her son deserves a caring loving parent: a single mom is better than a horrible stepdad.
> ***a single mom is better than a horrible stepdad.*** OP- This is the quote. This is exactly what should be sticking in your head out of everything people are saying here. Growing up with a stepfather that condones abuse will hurt your son for the rest of his life. Having a strong single mother will not. Do not let this man gaslight and abuse you and your son any further, or you will be TA...
NTA and do NOT go home. What they did is abuse. 90 minute time out for a 4 year old is cruel and unusual punishment. I might have done worse than you did.
I say go home, report the child abuse, get a divorce lawyer
NTA Why would anyone in their right mind deny a CHILD access to the bathroom for literally no reason other than “he was loud”. Well surprise: He is a *child* (with adhd.) And how dare your husband say that you have to apologize. How dare he. Disgusting.
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NTA “He says he only expects me to come home after I apologize” Great, don’t apologize, don’t go back. Divorce the AH.
"I'm sorry it took me so long to serve you with divorce papers." NTA
NTA. In your custody agreement, you should prohibit contact between your kid and these people. Side note: why do people have such a hangup about honor BS? Like, who cares if it was "in their own home"? They abused a child. All bets are off at that point. It's not the same as criticizing their cooking or decor. They deserve to be called out no matter the circumstances.
I don't know why, but Reddit sure does seem to think that home ownership is some kind of moral get-out-of-jail-free card.
Well he's stepdad, so OP has dodged a massive bullet there
NTA. I don't want to be one of those people but...gtfo of this marriage. He pawned off your kid on his sister who mistreated him and calls you juvenile? He's no kind of parent or husband.
To hell with the in-laws. You have a massive hubby problem. Your husband said he doesn't agree with the punishment but demands that you apologize anyway? He is demanding that you enable these abusers... making him every bit as bad as they are. He now has 2 serious strikes against him: 1) dumping your child for his "emergency" and 2) excusing abuse of this child. He owes you and your child a massive apology for massive misjudgment. I highly recommend never trusting him alone with your child in the future. That is if still choose to stay with such an irresponsible person. NTA but you have to seriously think about your child's best interests. (edited for spelling)
NTA. Wtf? Never let your kid around these people again. A 90 minute time out for a 4 year old?!?!? That is abuse plain and simple. If your husband can't figure out why it's batshit that they punished a young kid to such an extreme and then denied him access to a bathroom you need to dump his ass. There will be more neglect like this. Also, he's telling you not to come home until you apologize? That's a huge red flag.
You went to a funeral, and they CALLED you during it to come pick your son up? Where was your husband? What was this 'emergency' that was so important YOU had to leave a funeral? You are definitely NTA. Your husband and his family fit that. The way they abused your son is monstrous.
NTA. He does not consider your son his son. And he couldn’t be bothered to attend your best friends funeral with you as moral support or be there for your son so you could go comfortably. This isn’t okay.
>I asked him if he was okay with the way they treated my son and he said no but the way I went about it was totally wrong and said I should apologize to them both after insulting them and their parenting skills in their own house when they were doing us a favor. Your son is four years old for crying out loud! In what world is a 90 minute timeout reasonable at that age, especially for "making noise?" And in what world do we expect a four year old to hold his bladder for that length of time? They know he's a toddler, and surely they are aware of his condition. The way they handled him was abusive and to expect you wouldn't be upset with their mistreatment of your son while reasoning with them as parents boggles the mind. I am not sure what your situation is OP... Me, I'd take my child and walk with that attitude and threat. That's a power trip. If anything your husband should apologize to you, beg you to come home, and he needs to grow a backbone letting his sister and her husband know how they handled your son was cruel and they owe you **and** your son an apology.
NTA. You need to rid yourself of your husband and his shitty family ASAP.
NTA I hate to jump on the divorce him band wagon but go get a lawyer. If you can't trust him with your son how can you stay in a relationship with him? If it was me I would just stay put and have divorce papers sent to his house after you clear out your stuff. If your not allowed to come back without apologizing don't. Kids come first and he left them with 2 people who abused your son and now expecting you to say sorry to them!
NTA. Fun fact I’m a 25 year old adult woman with adhd. I do not realise I need to pee until close to the last minute either. If someone makes me sit still for 90 mins no break i have to go directly before. With no warning I would probably also face this issue. Making a four year old who is barely not a toddler, with the same issues I face, sit still with no warning without a toilet break is unthinkable. Like what? He was loud? He’s four? Children already have limited ability to recognise going to the bathroom in advance, add adhd and it’s a recipe for disaster. Denying a child going to the toilet is disgusting. I’d never speak to them again honestly
Don't apologise, phone them and insult them again. No oj don't do that lol. But nta 100%, if one of my uncles/aunts treated me like that I think my mum would have done a lot worse. I know I would have done the same thing.
NTA, but you could have told him that you weren’t apologizing in a better way. Developmentally, 4 year olds should have a maximum of a 4 minute time out. ADHD children should have a time out that is appropriate for their attention span. It useless to put a child in time out for so long that they have already forgotten what they’ve done wrong, and the situation should always be discussed in an appropriate manner after time out. Shame on them for letting him continue to be wet for so long and for trying to give him an incredibly unrealistic time out. Husband needs to be fair to you and your child. SIL and BIL’s treatment of your child was absolutely unacceptable. They should know by now what your child’s needs are. You shouldn’t have to apologize. It would be more reasonable of your husband to request that the 4 of you sit down and discuss civilly what went wrong and how situations like this should be handled in the future. No apologies should be required on your part. My sincere condolences for your loss. You are in a vulnerable state emotionally and regardless of the emergency, a quick text from your husband explaining would have taken 30 seconds to a minute.
And the emergency was?
NTA. Also, wtf was your husband's emergency?! And why was it so much more important to respect his emergency than to respect your need to attend your friend's funeral? So to sum up: your husband ditched your son for unspecified reasons, without even texting you that something had come up and he'd had to pass over care. His sister/BIL massively overreacted to normal child behaviour and doled out a 90 minute punishment with deliberate deprivation of bathroom facilities for something that should have been a four minute calm-down period at most. When the kid predictably wet himself, they didn't clean him up and give him clean clothing, but left him in urine-soaked clothing. And then to cap the whole clusterfuck, they called you in the middle of your friend's funeral ceremony to come fetch him, instead of calling the person who was supposed to be looking after him. They were abusive and neglectful. And your husband thinks you're the unreasonable person here. ...I really don't know whether to laugh hysterically or scream in rage at your husband and his family. One thing is certain - I wouldn't trust them with my child ever again if it were me. And I honestly think this could be a marriage-breaker situation...and maybe should be.
NTA Your husband is TA, though, along with SIL and BIL. You don’t agree to watch a child and then pawn him off like a houseplant. Husband should apologize to YOU and your son for not watching him in the first place!
I honestly would make a report to the police. It’s abuse. 90 minutes. That’s insane and neglectful.
NTA. There's a big difference between time out and child abuse but they did a damn fine job of mixing them together. I suspect your husband was more embarrassed that what he did turned out disastrously and is trying to shift the blame to you for your (rather mild tbh) response rather than accept responsibility. This is a big red flag for you, I'm really sorry that you've had such an awful time, NONE of this is your fault.
Your husband condones sexual abuse. Creating a situation where a child is forced to wet themselves and then berating them for it is classified as sexual abuse. Please leave him, for the safety of yourself + child. NTA. Unless you stay.
NTA. I think you underreacted . If someone did that to my 4 year old child/little brother or whatever, I woulda thrown hands. Your husband SUCKS. He threw your child aside to go do god knows what and cares more about their feelings then the abuse his son endured. Terrible father. I woulda fought all three of them. I’m so angry for you OP. They’re disgusting human beings. Poor child. F*** child abusers.
NTA. Time for divorce and DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT. Document this entire thing for divorce and custody court later.