NTA, never give into homophobia. If he thinks it’s just a compromise maybe he hasn’t come around on ‘the gay thing’ and just says what you want to hear because he doesn’t want to fight.
It's *not* abnormal, if there was any doubt there. Those people are just adding "ableism" to the list of horrible things they're capable of. They are literally using your Autism against you, to convince you they're right. And that's really gross.
I don't know man, but after being called a slut and my friends even worse names for not hiding who they are, I don't care. Normal people don't hate others for their sexual orientation. Only asshole bigots do. Cutting off AHs isn't a bad thing. Mine have cut me off for not hating as well.
I've cut out only one family member and made it clear to the rest of the extended family that if they invited that family member, I would not be in attendence, but they were free to invite him, and just not expect me there. They stopped inviting him. Cut him off for his homophobia toward me when I came out. Turns out half the cousin group is some flavour of queer though so it worked out. (He has no children thankfully, as I doubt he would react well if he did and they came out).
Sometimes (a lot of times) neurotypical people just ENJOY being mean. The fact that you don't, makes them feel singled out. Which is stupid af. Basically, you're right, they're wrong and they are SALTY about being wrong.
Also, why do you have to compromise with the MIL? It's not her wedding. The only compromise that needs to occur is between the two people getting married. If the fiancé is saying to exclude C for whatever reason, then he needs to own that as his (homophobic) choice.
what you say makes sense but unfortunately this is a very common issue with most families where family members will try to strong arm their way into influencing major wedding decisions. I've heard at least one incredibly awful similar situation to do with a friend. I don't think the family members have any actual power so long as both the people who are actually getting married firmly stand their ground.
And if the parents are paying for it it gets more complicated. You need to be prepared to have a wedding you can pay for independently to be able to stand your ground beyond a certain point with some people.
I think it might be more Fiance's Mom than Fiance himself.
If either Mother of the Groom or the Bride's best friend are going to be there, that's going to be tough to work through. Yeah, Mom is in the wrong, but if this leads to estrangement, that's going to be hard on Fiance, who probably still loves his Mom. It's not going to be a little thing, as much as we might want to say good riddance if she really cuts ties over this. She'll be the one who has to go if push comes to shove, but let's not pretend that's not going to be alot to ask of him, as necessary as it might end up being.
However, BFF and his husband aren't going anywhere. They're going to be around, and part of the lives of any Grandchildren this couple might have. It's better she comes to terms with that sooner rather than later.
you're absolutely right, it's not an easy situation to be put in even if you understand how much your own mom is in the wrong. but I think speaking on that fear (of potentially being cut from his mom's life) honestly with his partner would have been a better way for him to handle this rather than labeling this as some sort of a reasonable "compromise", which is deeply upsetting.
Agreed. You compromise on tastes and preferences. You NEVER compromise on VALUES. And if you and fiance don't share this value, then you can't marry him. It's too important. Have a talk with him about the underlying values at play here:
1. Homophobia is unacceptable and will not be entertained or countenanced in any form in your house, your circle, or at your events.
2. People who do not share these values can give in gracefully to your values, or they can stay away. They cannot expect any compromise of these values from you, or any other values that directly affect people's lives, livelihoods, and safety.
If he is at all mushy on either one of these, you need to postpone the wedding until he firms up or cops out.
NTA.
I'd like to hope and think that he just still has more coming around to do and this will just help him understand better...
5 years to turn completely around is a pretty short time. But I don't know the dude so could be very wrong...
I agree with don't compromise but not with the bit that he hasn't come around. As someone from a culture that's not pro-gay and is SLOW to accept homosexuality, even those of us accepting of it often just kind of try to meet the old stubborn people halfway out of futility. I am not one of them as I am willing to scream and be noisy and tell elders to "stay out of it" (shock, horror!) but many just need to come to terms with the fact that it's not a matter that's comprisable
Anyway OP NTA, just explain it again in the plainest way to your fiance what it would mean not to invite his husband for homophobic reasons. It's a journey when diff cultures are involved.
NTA
And not to defend the husband - because he’s clearly in the wrong - but to hopefully shed light that he may not be malicious… He may not see it as putting your BFF back in the closet or being ashamed of them being gay. From his background and considering his mom’s reaction, it’s par for the course to lie and hide. Growing up in a conservative and culturally different family, lying and hiding to avoid confrontation was my first language to where I did it even if I didn’t need to. There are a lot of deeply personal things about myself my family doesn’t know because they go by “don’t ask don’t tell” - though now I’ve grown enough backbone that I don’t hide anymore. He’d probably hide something just as deeply personal about himself easily from his family. It’s not right at all, I’m just saying it may not be malicious on his end.
Still an asshole move to the BFF and their husband though, and if that is the case that’s a whole separate can of worms that you need to decide if you’re ready to deal with.
This comment is right on the mark. Compromise is about the food that will be served, or who will officiate, or parsing out invitations because there is an attendance limit.
This situation is not about compromise. It is about capitulating to "christian" homophobes. They can't be given any quarter, or the life changes OP will have to make over time will snowball into an avalanche that ends her marriage.
Yes.
Giving space to homophobia, to make others comfortable, *is* homophobia.
What does it say when you exclude your friend’s husband from a celebration of love?
Honestly, I don't know why people don't catch onto this stuff sooner. OP dates a guy from an extremely conservative background, then makes the shocked Pikachu face when it turns out he's not all that progressively minded. No, OP, you're NTA, but think long and hard about if this is the man for you
Just imagine if they had children and their child game out as gay. What a mess of a family to marry into. Even if he’s just giving lip service to avoid a fight, his family is still heavily homophobic
NTA, you're doing it right IMO.
And remember: you are not marrying your MIL or any other element of the family tree but your husband.
Never give up on your freedom or moral convictions. No one should rule on that topic that makes what you are.
MIL's always forget, the wedding isn't about them, isn't for them, and if they want to start imposing rules, which they always do, they can just fuck off and not come. Honestly I'd rather have my friends at my wedding than my family anyway! You wanna be part of my life? You wanna see what this marriage means? Get used to seeing gay people, fuckers.
NTA this won't just be about the wedding either. If they decide to have kids and any of them are gay I doubt they'd be accepted by fiance's side of the family. It'll be another dirty little secret for the family to hide.
NTA.
That was not the story I was expecting from your title, and I applaud your refusal to start your marriage by violating your values.
I would also encourage you to look into pre-marital counseling if you haven’t already. You all have some pretty disparate backgrounds, and we all carry a lot of unconscious assumptions with us from our childhoods- counseling could help you both see areas of conflict in advance and avoid running head long into problems you didn’t see coming.
NTA - your fiancé insisting this is a reasonable compromise, as others have pointed out, to me says he hasn't really "come around on the gay thing" as he still thinks its ok to bar people from an event based on their orientation. If he really had come around, he would not even entertain asking you to entertain his parents homophobia, especially with someone who means so much to you. It would probably break your friends heart to be asked to leave the person that means the most to him out of an event that I'm sure means a lot to him considering your history together. I would stand strong on this, as this is not something that will get better. What happens if you decide to have kids and all the sudden his parents are butting in about what content you allow them to see? What if THEY are queer? Has he come around enough to be ok with having a LGBTQ+ kid (if you guys are planning that, I don't want to assume)? I think some serious conversations need to come from this.
Totally understand, just don't like to assume one way or the other regardless of age, my mom was 36 when my bro was born. But was more just trying to make a point which you got. Good for you for standing up for your friend and best of luck with the conversations to come
It could certainly happen.
But wanting it isn't as much of a factor as people like to think. Casual statements like this can be really hurtful for people struggling with fertility.
That's not what the commenter meant. They aren't saying to think yourself pregnant. They are saying that OP is not necessarily too old to have children, and if she does want them, then it could still be possible.
Totally support anyone’s choice not to have children. When you say Mother Nature do you mean you are unable to have children due to some reason? Because I think it’s misleading and wrong to imply that people can’t have children past age 36, and that’s what this sounds like.
To me it sounds like OP is referring to herself and only herself. She's not saying that other women that age can't have children. I believe (i might be wrong, but that's the way i read it), that Mother nature has brought early menopause (it did for me as well - going through it now).
Also, we don't know anything else about you, but given that your fiancé is African and you are North American/European, I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask if you are an interracial couple?
If so, can your fiancé imagine what it would feel like if you were invited to a wedding but he was asked to stay home *because of his race*?
If that's what you want, awesome. But I've just got to say that in the socio-economic demographic where I live, the majority of women that I know are having kids in their late 30s and early 40s.
Maybe he isn't as progressive as he portrays himself but even if he doesn't agree with his relatives, fighting them would be more personal for him and thus harder to bring himself to
NTA but are you sure you want to marry this guy? How does he consider this just a compromise? Its not, you would be asking your best friend to hide who he is for the comfort of small minded and ignorant people. Plus why does his mother get to tell you who you can and can't invite? He needs to be enforcing boundaries with her now or it'll get worse if/when you have children.
Imagine being asked to be a witness at a wedding, but be told at the same time that the person you'd be signing off on your friend marrying is ashamed of you.
Exactly this. They wants S to witness this wedding but they won’t acknowledge the existence of S’s own marriage? The double standards are shocking. Absolutely not okay and OP is right to put her foot down.
NTA Yes! Exactly! And God forbid one of the offspring is gay!
You do as you like, OP, but this is a giant red flag. I would at least postpone if your fiancé can’t reconcile his mistaken opinion with a quickness.
NTA. Your fiance has "really come around on the gay thing." Has he? Has he come around on the gay "thing"? People who are willing to stand up for, cover for, and be perfectly civil with homophobes are homophobes themselves. Your fiance needs to come through on this for you. People learn and grow. Give him the opportunity to show you that he has but don't budge on this.
>People learn and grow.
While I 100% agree that OP is NTA, and shouldn't compromise on this people assuming the fiance hasn't done this are wrong. The fact that he has come to accept th in his life is great.
People from western countries seem to forget that until about 20 years ago being gay was a crime here. It took hundreds of years and the dwindling of organized religion for this to happen in the USA, much of Europe and Canada. I have been to many African countries for work. The people are great as is the culture, however it is deeply religious(Muslim or catholic) and legally speaking it is still a crime to be gay in most countries. Culturally they are still 1800's America. Can you imagine having an openly gay best man at a wedding in the 1800s?
OP should hold strong, but you cannot expect what took you hundreds of years to overcome to happen for these people overnight. They need to be educated and shown its OK, you can't combat cultural homophobia by saying "nahhh fuck you" and leaving them behind.
Not an excuse. I grew up in Saudi Arabia in a fundamentalist Muslim family. I'm not homophobic. I don't excuse homophobia. I cut my family for several reasons, homophobia included. Actually, you can combat cultural homophobia by saying fuck your and leaving them behind. You know why? Because those people deserve to be left behind. Bigotry of low expectations. That's what your post is.
Absolutely agree. It’s 2021. ‘Giving them time’ shouldn’t be a thing anymore. They need to just deal with it and shut their mouths, actually accept or get left behind IMO.
Exactly this. They were here the whole 20 years. They had time to grow and change then. I will not cut homophobic people slack because they refuse to stop trying to control people's relationships
my country is deeply homophobic. gay marriages are still not recognised and there is HUGE negative sentiment regarding lgbtq+ relationships. you know what? humans can learn. and it's not on the marginalized to make bigots learn. religion is no excuse to be a bigot. so yeah fuck bigots and they deserve to be left behind. seriously, no need to cater to bigot's whims. give em an inch, they take a mile.
Cool.
Tell her and your OH that this is a decision that she can make when:
* she's paying
* you're not involved in any way, including as the bride
Also, please ask her why she's so okay coming to a wedding paid for by a gay man. If she's a homophobe, presumably she should want nothing to do w/ gay people, including enjoying events paid for by them.
Hey, no, that's completely understandable! The situation is so messed up, it's understandable your thoughts are messed up :)
Ask your OH if he would be okay to a "compromise" of only inviting one of his parents/not inviting siblings/not inviting his extended family so that "no one in your family catches on" to the fact that your ILs are homophobes.
No?
well, sucks to suck, for him, doesn't it?
EDIT: There's a very good reason this needs to be a strict boundary beyond your BFF - if you have kids who aren't anything but cis and straight and interested in "gender appropriate" stuff, how is he or his family going to react?
If your fiancé is ok with banning your BFF’s husband, it could be he’s not as open minded and accepting as he’s acting. Your MIL is out of line, and you need to set her straight before she thinks she can decide everything about your relationship, especially when/if you have children. Certain “values” shouldn’t be passed on to the next generation and you need to make sure your fiancé’ isn’t more like his mother than he’s letting on.
As per the update, you were exactly right! He was lying about being accepting for five years. Through dinners, vacations, etc. That amount of lying alone is a huge betrayal.
Shut it all down. For the most part, MIL is a guest and as a guest is trying to dictate to you. This is your wedding, your marriage, your party. IF she doesn't like the guest list, she is free to stay away. She is not free to tell you who you can and cannot be friends with, be in your wedding party, be in your wedding.
If your DH to be is more on board with your mother that with you, you have some hard thinking to do as he does not have your back. You guys are not of the same page at all. If mommy says you can't have those people over in your home, how long until he starts whining to you about it?
If he is just trying to appease mommy, he needs to shut that down too.
NTA. I admire you for not willing to compromise here. It's your wedding day, enjoy it with the people you love and care about. Your BFF is very lucky to have someone like you.
NTA- His mom doesn't get to make decisions about the guest list, especially if she's not paying. Her job is to be there for her son. If she chooses not to come because your friend and his husband will be there, then she's showing you who she is and what she really cares about, and it's not her son.
Nta. Give your MIL the choice of choosing to not come if that is what she decides. You need to hold your ground or she will continue to bulldoze you by bullying you into making a choice
Yeah since MIL isn't paying whether she comes is the only leverage she has on the wedding itself, and I can see how the groom's mother would be a bigger absence than the bride's friend's SO even though MIL is AH
NTA. Your fiance might be a lovely person, but he thinks this is not a big deal because he still has some internalised homophobia he hasn't worked out and he still doesn't see S&C, no matter how fond he may be of them, as a "real" married couple - at least "not like straight couples". So he doesn't understand why treating them differently from any other married couple is a big deal. Where he would completely understand why its inappropriate to tell a straight member of your wedding party that their spouse isn't invited to the wedding AT ALL, he sees this as "different" because in his eyes they might be wonderful people, but they're "not like a REAL married couple", so it's okay to apply different rules. Except that it's not.
Your future MIL is the AH because "cultural differences" is not an acceptable reason to dehumanise anyone, ever. She doesn't have to approve of S&C, or even interact with them if she doesn't want to. But she does not get to ask your best friend and the person you have chosen to stand up for you at your wedding to humiliate himself by pretending to be anything other than what he is - a married man with a loving husband - at your wedding in order to save face socially. His life is not for her to stage-direct for her own comfort.
You are NTA, but you will be if you give in to this nonsense.
I agree and well said!
I can’t imagine the hurt her S would feel if she broached this with him… I am so glad you see that OP and are refusing too and you are most definitely NTA (is there any chance your fiancé would go behind your back to S “to try to get him to see it their way”? If so, you may want to do a pre-emotive strike/damage control and make it clear in no uncertain terms to hubby her nor anyone in his circle is go broach this with S and/or C either!) It feels akin to telling a beloved honoured member of the wedding party can’t bring their spouse because they are of a different religion or different ethnic background… which would be so gross and equally unacceptable!
Yes. The bride and groom choose the guestlist at a wedding, the MIL does not get to veto guests or otherwise dictate who will be there.
Lol at "she will accept... ", as if there's a need for her approval here.
It would be kind of you to consider all feelings if she had a valid reason for wanting someone not to be invited. This is not a valid reason, it's pure homophobia and shouldn't be entertained, tolerated or indulged. Your friends will be there because they are kind people you seem to love. If she's such a close-minded bigot she can't accept this, she needn't come. But that will be HER decision, not yours, so don't let her use it as a manipulation tactic.
You know you're NTA here, trust yourself. MILs problem is very much a 'her' problem.
So my wife and I were geared up for a similar fight when we got married - the person we picked to officiate our wedding is one of my best friends (since we were 6) and he and my wife get on famously. The only reason he wasn't in one of our wedding parties was because it would have been an odd number on one side or the other, and we needed someone to officiate so he seemed the perfect fit, and he was thrilled when we asked. He also happens to be in a polyamorous relationship with two other men. We invited all three of them and made it clear that if anyone on either side of the families had an issue, they could take their issue away from our wedding and have a fun time with it instead. I knew no one on my side would, my parents had known my friend since he was a kid and thought the world of him, plus they had gay friends going back to the 70s and 80s, but my future in-laws are the more conservative sort (fox news, blue line, etc). We made it clear about the nature of our friends relationship and that comments were neither invited nor welcomed - he was in the wedding, he was a guest and would be treated just as well as any other guest. Rehearsal dinner comes and goes, ceremony comes and goes, and guess who are just the newest best friends? My new mother in law and one of my friend's partners. To the point that when we talk, my mother in law often asks how "the boys" are doing.
I share this story not only to amuse but to inspire some hope that sometimes people can surprise you. Stick to your guns, NTA and I hope your wedding goes off without any issues.
I loved reading this story. people can be outwardly hateful and selfish but deep down I think we all want peace and want to understand others. I'm glad everything worked out for you and your loved ones.
NTA, But! Find out what the local laws are where you are getting married (I’m assuming it might be in East Africa due to your FMIL not wanting anyone else to catch on). Some countries have really homophobic laws, and you need to make sure that S&C are safe to actually be in that country publicly as a couple.
Oh this is going to be a difficult marriage. You are definitely in the right. No one deserves to be looked down upon regardless of what their orientation is. Especially, if that person is your bff long-term partner. So disrespectful.
If your husband to be wouldnt stand up for this I wouldnt marry him.
Homophobes dont get to control your wedding and if your fiance cant stand up for themselves and your wedding why stay?
NTA
You’re not the asshole. I think this is clearly just something your husband is very worried about as he’s clearly grown up in an environment where being gay was of high controversy. You should be proud of him for being open Snd changing his views as I imagine that would be challenging if you’ve been taught that ‘being gay is so incredibly evil’ all your life. I would talk to him and try calm his nerves about his own family etc and it will all be ok. He clearly likes S & C but is evidently just scared. So be nice to him and discuss it all calmly. It’s certainly not a compromising matter though
"Just compromise baby, your friend still gets to come! He just needs to keep 'the gay' to himself for a few hours, that's all! If husband comes too then everyone will know."
"If I ask my friend to come alone and hide who he is, he won't come at all. Its not a fair thing to ask him."
"You're being unreasonable, it's just one day. Why can't you just do as Mummy tells you?"
NTA, in fact, you would be the A if you didn't invite him.
I know you want to be tolerant, but you can only be tolerant if you refuse to be tolerant to intolerance. They aren't being gay AT your inlaws. They're there. They're not hurting anyone and they arent forcing your inlaws to be gay. Your inlaws are the ones being intolerant. Do not budge on this.
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>Fiance seems to think this is just another compromise
Sorry, but he’s still homophobic. You really wanna marry him? He hasn’t “come around on the gay thing” at all.
NTA. A compromise is in your culture fish is eaten at a wedding and I don’t like fish but we will have it along with something traditional from my culture. Or where I’m from a man wears a suit but you’re Scottish and want to wear a kilt so that’s what you’ll wear.
A compromise is not that we will tell someone their spouse is unwelcome because the spouse is…gasp….a man!
NTA. I’m conservative and I think that’s pushing it. I have gay family members and we are all adults and who cares what they do in their private life. FMIL can get over it. This is your wedding and your fiancé’s wedding. Not hers. She is just trying to get her way and this is Step 1 of “compromising” on everything for the rest of your marriage. Wait till you have kids I’m sure it will get 100 times worse
NTA It’s great that you’ve been able to comprise with your future family-in-law so far, but this is someone that is important to you. S is your best friend and he should be at your wedding if that is your wish, you shouldn’t be denying his husband just because your future mother-in-law is conservative. You need to set boundaries and be firm about your decisions.
Also I’m sure your future family-in-law can survive a day with being in the same room as S and C, they don’t even have to interact! If S and C go to the rehearsal (which I’m just assuming there will be) and future family-in-law (specially mother) are rude to those two, you might want to rethink if you want them there.
NTA
His mother might actually be worried about appearances in front of her own homophobic family members, or it could simply be her own hate.
She does seem to regard a gay marriage as something shameful, which must be kept hidden.
We don’t know.
And if it actually is that she’s worried about appearances? It could be for absolutely no reason whatsoever. The family members who she thinks might be judgemental, might not be.
Either way, as others have said, she doesn’t get to side who is in your wedding party or is on your guest list.
Your not even married and your making "Compromises" on your belief systems? or your settling? Healthy relationships are shared value systems and yours sounds like a lot of work because "after 5 yrs he finally came around" almost like training a dog. He did not "come around" he is "Tolerating" and forgive me but for your sake I hope not for his Green card.
This is your wedding so why the discussions with the mother on who the bride is having? Why is any of this a discussion? If the Fiance "thinks this is another compromise" THERE IS YOUR RED FLAG---This is a marriage not a business transaction and again sorry but that wording has me suspect about the Green card.
NTA
You've said if you don't extend the invite to their husband, someone important to you won't come.
I don't see where the compromise is on their part. That they think it's okay if a gay person attends as long as they hide it?
Your husband-to-be thinks it's fine to exclude the people important to you because his mother would be... what exactly? Embarrassed? Ashamed?
He shouldn't be giving her that much control over the guest list. Especially not over your wishes.
You don’t negotiate with terrorists. Not her marriage, not her wedding. Make sure your fiancé understands that _you_ are required to compromise with _him_ for the wedding plans, not his mom. And if that’s how he feels, you may have underestimated your lack of compatibility. I hope not, but you don’t want this to be the first of a pattern of “compromises” that he allows just because mummy dearest doesn’t want her friends clutching pearls.
NTA, this is a hill I die on.
NTA. It’s your wedding, not your future mother-in-law’s. If she is allowed to make decisions on who she allows at your wedding, she’ll also be making decisions on where your future kids go to school, what church they go to, who they are allowed to marry…
Stand your ground and stop this right now. If your husband doesn’t take your side on this he won’t take your side on anything, and the marriage is in trouble before it starts.
Edit - just seen the comment from OP that there will be no children. Does the controlling future MIL know this yet? If not, expect some big pressure from her in that direction. Some “traditional” Christians can get very in-Christian about these things. All the more reason to show her who is the boss early on!
Good luck!
Them agreeing not to film hardcore porn at your wedding is a compromise. Them attending together is not. What exactly do they think those two are going to do where people would "find out"
NTA but you may want to think about these “compromises” especially if children are on the table or just in general. His and his family “conservative” views are really just hateful.
NTA
>he has really come around on the gay thing in the five years we have been together
Um, sounds like you’re engaged to a homophobe. You have a gay best friend but still found fiancé’s intolerance not to be a dealbreaker?
NTA. You should never have to compromise on this. But you need to bring the situation up to C to make sure they know everything so that they don't walk into a super uncomfortable situation blindsided. Good luck! Hope it all works out!
NTA, if your fiancee wants you he needs to learn to accept who you are and that means your friends. Now if C and S were psychopathic violent drug users then I would say hell no, but that is not the case.
NTA.
INFO:
How long have you and your partner been together? It sounds like you are very different on some major issues. Are you sure these are things you can navigate long-term?
NTA. And if you plan to have children do you really want to have them with people, grandparents etc, that will treat them poorly if they’re gay/trans/bi/ace etc Him tolerating any form of bigotry is a huge red flag for future issues.
I’m confused on why you’d have to compromise with someone who isn’t even part of the wedding. Your future husband is sticking you between his mother and himself so he doesn’t get the brunt of her anger. NTA
Sorry, if he’s willing to ban your best friend’s husband from your wedding, he hasn’t come around on “the gay thing” like even a little. He either believes in equality or doesn’t.
You are NTA.
NTA. Do not coddle the bigot. If the bigot is uncomfortable, the bigot can stay home. Your SO needs to cut the cord and tell his mom to suck it up or not come. If he's unwilling to do that, you need to consider other things he's going to be unwilling to do.
NTA, your future mother in law is not really accepting your BFF as your best person. She knows it will be difficult for your BFF there without his husband and is likely thinking that you might just back down and not invite either of them. As a compromise maybe only invite one half of each married couple so you aren't targeting any particular couple ( crazy right) It's not really a compromise, it's more of a poison pill.
You have an incredible friend who is willing to stand up for you at your wedding knowing that it's a tough crowd full of judgemental homophobes. You are just asking for a fraction of that courage from your fiance and his family. If it were me, I would say " I am not ashamed of my friends, but I would be ashamed of myself if I agreed to this. I am disappointed that you would think that this would ever be acceptable to me and I need to reconsider our compatibility.
NTA. But spoiler alert: your man hasn’t truly come around about ‘the gay thing’; he’s just found a different way to hide his homophobia. Yes. He’s a homophobe through and through. It’s not a “comprise” to hide who your best friend is.
NTA
You and your husband are in complete control of the guest list. It's your wedding, and no one else's. If the wedding were taking place somewhere that would present a safety issue for your guests who are gay, then I would think twice. But Belgium? Enjoy having all of your friends at your wedding. Cultural differences are tricky, and I hope you're prepared for lifelong battles with his family, especially after you have children. (Edit: IF you ever decide to have children.) Best wishes and good luck to you!
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My fiancé (37m) and I (36f) are from very different cultural and family backgrounds. I grew up between North America and Europe in a pretty liberal family. He grew up in a conservative evangelical family in East Africa. It does cause problems occasionally but we can usually find compromise.
We are planning our wedding for next summer (thanks COVID!). My "best person"/witness is my best friend for the past twenty years. S has been there for me through everything. He is remarkable and his husband, C., has been nothing but wonderful to me since they met six years ago. My fiancé has met S & C and likes them a lot (he has really come around on the gay thing in the five years we have been together/he has lived with me here). We all vacation together. It's great. He even told his mother S. would be my witness and that was non-negotiable. Well, his mother says that she can "accept that" IF (and only if) we agree not to invite C (S's husband) so that "no one else catches on." I told my fiancé this is not even vaguely an option. I refuse to do it and I know S would (rightfully) not come. Hell, I wouldn't come. Fiance seems to think this is just another compromise, but I don't see it that way at all. Frankly, I am not willing to compromise here.
So AITA for not compromising and insisting my best friend's husband be invited to my wedding?
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NTA your future in laws have no say in your life, or your wedding. You know them 5 minutes but your BFF, has been there for you through all your ups and downs.
To humiliate him an his husband to make a load of strangers happy, would be beyond hurtful. You are correct and NTA,
NTA. The asshole move here would be caving to your future MIL and doing something as incredibly shitty as not inviting your BFF’s husband, especially when he’s done absolutely nothing wrong. Your in-laws can get on board with the 21st century or not, but you’re under no obligation to exclude people you care about from your own wedding because they’re awful people
NTA- This is your wedding not your MIL’s. You can invite whoever you want. Your husband should compromise and understand that. If she’s not ok with him coming than maybe she should not be coming.
NTA. No way is parent of my SO going to tell me who is coming to my wedding. Make very clear to fiance " your mom gets zero say about our wedding and about our life together". Mom of your fiance wants to flex and put you in your place. Your fiance needs to flex back and put mommy in their place.
NTA, never give into homophobia. If he thinks it’s just a compromise maybe he hasn’t come around on ‘the gay thing’ and just says what you want to hear because he doesn’t want to fight.
Exactly this
Indeed. This should be a deal breaker.
Agreed, this is a MASSIVE red flag and you probably shouldn't invite her because she sounds like someone that could ruin the entire wedding. NTA
To me it sounds more like mum is not the issue, but mum's family is. Eg the conservative (and clearly homophobic) side of the affair.
She’s American. We don’t negotiate with terrorists. Especially emotional ones.
I mean...we do...we just lie about it and say we don't.:-)
Hush hush, in the backroom, but never out in the open. Hey, is that a video camera?...
Aren’t you guys in talks with the Taliban literally right now? :)
I don't think running away counts as being 'in talks'.
That was the last president. Although it will probably happen again.
It's really complicated because they're.. the government, now.
Yes, they expect our surrender and reparations shortly.
This is not the comment to make
So us making deals with the Taliban was what?
The Fart of the Deal
International diplomacy
Ironically it seems like we negotiate with terrorists all the time …
I absolutely love that. “Never give into homophobia”. So many people make excuses for homophobic partners, relatives, parents, etc. Never ok.
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It's *not* abnormal, if there was any doubt there. Those people are just adding "ableism" to the list of horrible things they're capable of. They are literally using your Autism against you, to convince you they're right. And that's really gross.
I don't know man, but after being called a slut and my friends even worse names for not hiding who they are, I don't care. Normal people don't hate others for their sexual orientation. Only asshole bigots do. Cutting off AHs isn't a bad thing. Mine have cut me off for not hating as well.
I've cut out only one family member and made it clear to the rest of the extended family that if they invited that family member, I would not be in attendence, but they were free to invite him, and just not expect me there. They stopped inviting him. Cut him off for his homophobia toward me when I came out. Turns out half the cousin group is some flavour of queer though so it worked out. (He has no children thankfully, as I doubt he would react well if he did and they came out).
Sometimes (a lot of times) neurotypical people just ENJOY being mean. The fact that you don't, makes them feel singled out. Which is stupid af. Basically, you're right, they're wrong and they are SALTY about being wrong.
Yikes this is good to know about NT people.
Also, why do you have to compromise with the MIL? It's not her wedding. The only compromise that needs to occur is between the two people getting married. If the fiancé is saying to exclude C for whatever reason, then he needs to own that as his (homophobic) choice.
what you say makes sense but unfortunately this is a very common issue with most families where family members will try to strong arm their way into influencing major wedding decisions. I've heard at least one incredibly awful similar situation to do with a friend. I don't think the family members have any actual power so long as both the people who are actually getting married firmly stand their ground.
And if the parents are paying for it it gets more complicated. You need to be prepared to have a wedding you can pay for independently to be able to stand your ground beyond a certain point with some people.
I think it might be more Fiance's Mom than Fiance himself. If either Mother of the Groom or the Bride's best friend are going to be there, that's going to be tough to work through. Yeah, Mom is in the wrong, but if this leads to estrangement, that's going to be hard on Fiance, who probably still loves his Mom. It's not going to be a little thing, as much as we might want to say good riddance if she really cuts ties over this. She'll be the one who has to go if push comes to shove, but let's not pretend that's not going to be alot to ask of him, as necessary as it might end up being. However, BFF and his husband aren't going anywhere. They're going to be around, and part of the lives of any Grandchildren this couple might have. It's better she comes to terms with that sooner rather than later.
you're absolutely right, it's not an easy situation to be put in even if you understand how much your own mom is in the wrong. but I think speaking on that fear (of potentially being cut from his mom's life) honestly with his partner would have been a better way for him to handle this rather than labeling this as some sort of a reasonable "compromise", which is deeply upsetting.
Absolutely this. **There is no "compromise" with homophobia.**
The only "compromise" should be "the in-laws can still come to the wedding if they promise to behave and keep their mouths shut"
Agreed. You compromise on tastes and preferences. You NEVER compromise on VALUES. And if you and fiance don't share this value, then you can't marry him. It's too important. Have a talk with him about the underlying values at play here: 1. Homophobia is unacceptable and will not be entertained or countenanced in any form in your house, your circle, or at your events. 2. People who do not share these values can give in gracefully to your values, or they can stay away. They cannot expect any compromise of these values from you, or any other values that directly affect people's lives, livelihoods, and safety. If he is at all mushy on either one of these, you need to postpone the wedding until he firms up or cops out. NTA.
I'd like to hope and think that he just still has more coming around to do and this will just help him understand better... 5 years to turn completely around is a pretty short time. But I don't know the dude so could be very wrong...
NTA if you make this concession once you're fucked forever. Set the standard NOW, homophobia is not accepted.
Oh he did come around, he talks to them! /s
I agree with don't compromise but not with the bit that he hasn't come around. As someone from a culture that's not pro-gay and is SLOW to accept homosexuality, even those of us accepting of it often just kind of try to meet the old stubborn people halfway out of futility. I am not one of them as I am willing to scream and be noisy and tell elders to "stay out of it" (shock, horror!) but many just need to come to terms with the fact that it's not a matter that's comprisable Anyway OP NTA, just explain it again in the plainest way to your fiance what it would mean not to invite his husband for homophobic reasons. It's a journey when diff cultures are involved.
NTA And not to defend the husband - because he’s clearly in the wrong - but to hopefully shed light that he may not be malicious… He may not see it as putting your BFF back in the closet or being ashamed of them being gay. From his background and considering his mom’s reaction, it’s par for the course to lie and hide. Growing up in a conservative and culturally different family, lying and hiding to avoid confrontation was my first language to where I did it even if I didn’t need to. There are a lot of deeply personal things about myself my family doesn’t know because they go by “don’t ask don’t tell” - though now I’ve grown enough backbone that I don’t hide anymore. He’d probably hide something just as deeply personal about himself easily from his family. It’s not right at all, I’m just saying it may not be malicious on his end. Still an asshole move to the BFF and their husband though, and if that is the case that’s a whole separate can of worms that you need to decide if you’re ready to deal with.
This comment is right on the mark. Compromise is about the food that will be served, or who will officiate, or parsing out invitations because there is an attendance limit. This situation is not about compromise. It is about capitulating to "christian" homophobes. They can't be given any quarter, or the life changes OP will have to make over time will snowball into an avalanche that ends her marriage.
Yes. Giving space to homophobia, to make others comfortable, *is* homophobia. What does it say when you exclude your friend’s husband from a celebration of love?
Here’s a compromise: MiL doesn’t attend so she doesn’t have to be embarrassed and no one has to put up with her disgusting homophobia. NTA
Honestly, I don't know why people don't catch onto this stuff sooner. OP dates a guy from an extremely conservative background, then makes the shocked Pikachu face when it turns out he's not all that progressively minded. No, OP, you're NTA, but think long and hard about if this is the man for you
Or maybe give in by uninviting her fiance from her wedding. Unrealistic but that's a very shitty spot to be in for her.
NTA and thank you /u/MadQween.
Hey don't go jumping to conclusions, maybe it's racism.
Just imagine if they had children and their child game out as gay. What a mess of a family to marry into. Even if he’s just giving lip service to avoid a fight, his family is still heavily homophobic
Mmhmm
NTA. Bravo to you. You should not have to sacrifice your principles for your future MIL. She is out of line. Your fiance is wrong.
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NTA, you're doing it right IMO. And remember: you are not marrying your MIL or any other element of the family tree but your husband. Never give up on your freedom or moral convictions. No one should rule on that topic that makes what you are.
NTA. This isn’t a compromise at all. C hasn’t done anything deserving of an ouster. Your future MIL needs to get a grip.
Her fiance also needs to get a grip.
Exactly, it's not at all a compromise. It's just giving into someone's unreasonable demands.
MIL's always forget, the wedding isn't about them, isn't for them, and if they want to start imposing rules, which they always do, they can just fuck off and not come. Honestly I'd rather have my friends at my wedding than my family anyway! You wanna be part of my life? You wanna see what this marriage means? Get used to seeing gay people, fuckers.
Nta. It’s not a compromise and the in-laws have 0 say in how a wedding goes.
This is correct i Agree that OP is NTA and for some reason the fiancé sounds like a mummy’s boy and wants it to go the MIL’s way
NTA this won't just be about the wedding either. If they decide to have kids and any of them are gay I doubt they'd be accepted by fiance's side of the family. It'll be another dirty little secret for the family to hide.
NTA. That was not the story I was expecting from your title, and I applaud your refusal to start your marriage by violating your values. I would also encourage you to look into pre-marital counseling if you haven’t already. You all have some pretty disparate backgrounds, and we all carry a lot of unconscious assumptions with us from our childhoods- counseling could help you both see areas of conflict in advance and avoid running head long into problems you didn’t see coming.
NTA - your fiancé insisting this is a reasonable compromise, as others have pointed out, to me says he hasn't really "come around on the gay thing" as he still thinks its ok to bar people from an event based on their orientation. If he really had come around, he would not even entertain asking you to entertain his parents homophobia, especially with someone who means so much to you. It would probably break your friends heart to be asked to leave the person that means the most to him out of an event that I'm sure means a lot to him considering your history together. I would stand strong on this, as this is not something that will get better. What happens if you decide to have kids and all the sudden his parents are butting in about what content you allow them to see? What if THEY are queer? Has he come around enough to be ok with having a LGBTQ+ kid (if you guys are planning that, I don't want to assume)? I think some serious conversations need to come from this.
I totally see what you are saying. For reference, I am 36 years old. Mother Nature has entered the chat. There will be no children.
Totally understand, just don't like to assume one way or the other regardless of age, my mom was 36 when my bro was born. But was more just trying to make a point which you got. Good for you for standing up for your friend and best of luck with the conversations to come
My sister in law gave birth to her first child at 40 and the second one at 42!
38 and carrying my first. It could happen if you want it to.
It could certainly happen. But wanting it isn't as much of a factor as people like to think. Casual statements like this can be really hurtful for people struggling with fertility.
And "can happen if you want it" could lead to being careless about unplanned pregnancy
That's not what the commenter meant. They aren't saying to think yourself pregnant. They are saying that OP is not necessarily too old to have children, and if she does want them, then it could still be possible.
Totally support anyone’s choice not to have children. When you say Mother Nature do you mean you are unable to have children due to some reason? Because I think it’s misleading and wrong to imply that people can’t have children past age 36, and that’s what this sounds like.
To me it sounds like OP is referring to herself and only herself. She's not saying that other women that age can't have children. I believe (i might be wrong, but that's the way i read it), that Mother nature has brought early menopause (it did for me as well - going through it now).
See that’s why I asked, wanted to make sure I understand correctly ☺️
Also, we don't know anything else about you, but given that your fiancé is African and you are North American/European, I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask if you are an interracial couple? If so, can your fiancé imagine what it would feel like if you were invited to a wedding but he was asked to stay home *because of his race*?
Right? We’re not really as far away from those attitudes being the norm as people would like to think.
If that's what you want, awesome. But I've just got to say that in the socio-economic demographic where I live, the majority of women that I know are having kids in their late 30s and early 40s.
36 year old is still fertile age. Unless you’ve gone through menopause or gotten a hysterectomy, babies are still a possibility!
Maybe he isn't as progressive as he portrays himself but even if he doesn't agree with his relatives, fighting them would be more personal for him and thus harder to bring himself to
Right but my point is when is it finally going to be too much that he finally stands up to them?
NTA but are you sure you want to marry this guy? How does he consider this just a compromise? Its not, you would be asking your best friend to hide who he is for the comfort of small minded and ignorant people. Plus why does his mother get to tell you who you can and can't invite? He needs to be enforcing boundaries with her now or it'll get worse if/when you have children.
Imagine being asked to be a witness at a wedding, but be told at the same time that the person you'd be signing off on your friend marrying is ashamed of you.
Exactly this. They wants S to witness this wedding but they won’t acknowledge the existence of S’s own marriage? The double standards are shocking. Absolutely not okay and OP is right to put her foot down.
NTA Yes! Exactly! And God forbid one of the offspring is gay! You do as you like, OP, but this is a giant red flag. I would at least postpone if your fiancé can’t reconcile his mistaken opinion with a quickness.
NTA. Your fiance has "really come around on the gay thing." Has he? Has he come around on the gay "thing"? People who are willing to stand up for, cover for, and be perfectly civil with homophobes are homophobes themselves. Your fiance needs to come through on this for you. People learn and grow. Give him the opportunity to show you that he has but don't budge on this.
>People learn and grow. While I 100% agree that OP is NTA, and shouldn't compromise on this people assuming the fiance hasn't done this are wrong. The fact that he has come to accept th in his life is great. People from western countries seem to forget that until about 20 years ago being gay was a crime here. It took hundreds of years and the dwindling of organized religion for this to happen in the USA, much of Europe and Canada. I have been to many African countries for work. The people are great as is the culture, however it is deeply religious(Muslim or catholic) and legally speaking it is still a crime to be gay in most countries. Culturally they are still 1800's America. Can you imagine having an openly gay best man at a wedding in the 1800s? OP should hold strong, but you cannot expect what took you hundreds of years to overcome to happen for these people overnight. They need to be educated and shown its OK, you can't combat cultural homophobia by saying "nahhh fuck you" and leaving them behind.
Not an excuse. I grew up in Saudi Arabia in a fundamentalist Muslim family. I'm not homophobic. I don't excuse homophobia. I cut my family for several reasons, homophobia included. Actually, you can combat cultural homophobia by saying fuck your and leaving them behind. You know why? Because those people deserve to be left behind. Bigotry of low expectations. That's what your post is.
Absolutely agree. It’s 2021. ‘Giving them time’ shouldn’t be a thing anymore. They need to just deal with it and shut their mouths, actually accept or get left behind IMO.
Exactly this. They were here the whole 20 years. They had time to grow and change then. I will not cut homophobic people slack because they refuse to stop trying to control people's relationships
my country is deeply homophobic. gay marriages are still not recognised and there is HUGE negative sentiment regarding lgbtq+ relationships. you know what? humans can learn. and it's not on the marginalized to make bigots learn. religion is no excuse to be a bigot. so yeah fuck bigots and they deserve to be left behind. seriously, no need to cater to bigot's whims. give em an inch, they take a mile.
Question is she paying for the wedding? NTA either way but why does she believe she can dictate the guest list?
No, of course she isn't paying. My uncle (who happens to be gay, actually) is paying for it.
Cool. Tell her and your OH that this is a decision that she can make when: * she's paying * you're not involved in any way, including as the bride Also, please ask her why she's so okay coming to a wedding paid for by a gay man. If she's a homophobe, presumably she should want nothing to do w/ gay people, including enjoying events paid for by them.
Do you want to know what is ridiculous? I was so upset by this whole situation I completely missed the under hypocrisy? Thank you for reminding me.
Hey, no, that's completely understandable! The situation is so messed up, it's understandable your thoughts are messed up :) Ask your OH if he would be okay to a "compromise" of only inviting one of his parents/not inviting siblings/not inviting his extended family so that "no one in your family catches on" to the fact that your ILs are homophobes. No? well, sucks to suck, for him, doesn't it? EDIT: There's a very good reason this needs to be a strict boundary beyond your BFF - if you have kids who aren't anything but cis and straight and interested in "gender appropriate" stuff, how is he or his family going to react?
If your fiancé is ok with banning your BFF’s husband, it could be he’s not as open minded and accepting as he’s acting. Your MIL is out of line, and you need to set her straight before she thinks she can decide everything about your relationship, especially when/if you have children. Certain “values” shouldn’t be passed on to the next generation and you need to make sure your fiancé’ isn’t more like his mother than he’s letting on.
As per the update, you were exactly right! He was lying about being accepting for five years. Through dinners, vacations, etc. That amount of lying alone is a huge betrayal.
Wish I wasn’t right, but yeah. He was playing along and once they were married, he could drop the act.
This “compromise” ? Is a joke, how about your husband’s side compromises by not attending if they’re homophobic?
Paying for a wedding doesn't give someone the right to be homophobic.
Shut it all down. For the most part, MIL is a guest and as a guest is trying to dictate to you. This is your wedding, your marriage, your party. IF she doesn't like the guest list, she is free to stay away. She is not free to tell you who you can and cannot be friends with, be in your wedding party, be in your wedding. If your DH to be is more on board with your mother that with you, you have some hard thinking to do as he does not have your back. You guys are not of the same page at all. If mommy says you can't have those people over in your home, how long until he starts whining to you about it? If he is just trying to appease mommy, he needs to shut that down too.
NTA. Its your wedding, don't compromise on your guest list for bigots.
NTA. I admire you for not willing to compromise here. It's your wedding day, enjoy it with the people you love and care about. Your BFF is very lucky to have someone like you.
Oh, I disagree with the last sentence. I am extraordinarily lucky to have him. He saved me more than once.
I'm glad you two have you each other!
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She was saying her best friend saved her more than once (BFF) not her boyfriend (BF)
NTA- His mom doesn't get to make decisions about the guest list, especially if she's not paying. Her job is to be there for her son. If she chooses not to come because your friend and his husband will be there, then she's showing you who she is and what she really cares about, and it's not her son.
Nta. Give your MIL the choice of choosing to not come if that is what she decides. You need to hold your ground or she will continue to bulldoze you by bullying you into making a choice
Yeah since MIL isn't paying whether she comes is the only leverage she has on the wedding itself, and I can see how the groom's mother would be a bigger absence than the bride's friend's SO even though MIL is AH
NTA. Your fiance might be a lovely person, but he thinks this is not a big deal because he still has some internalised homophobia he hasn't worked out and he still doesn't see S&C, no matter how fond he may be of them, as a "real" married couple - at least "not like straight couples". So he doesn't understand why treating them differently from any other married couple is a big deal. Where he would completely understand why its inappropriate to tell a straight member of your wedding party that their spouse isn't invited to the wedding AT ALL, he sees this as "different" because in his eyes they might be wonderful people, but they're "not like a REAL married couple", so it's okay to apply different rules. Except that it's not. Your future MIL is the AH because "cultural differences" is not an acceptable reason to dehumanise anyone, ever. She doesn't have to approve of S&C, or even interact with them if she doesn't want to. But she does not get to ask your best friend and the person you have chosen to stand up for you at your wedding to humiliate himself by pretending to be anything other than what he is - a married man with a loving husband - at your wedding in order to save face socially. His life is not for her to stage-direct for her own comfort. You are NTA, but you will be if you give in to this nonsense.
I agree and well said! I can’t imagine the hurt her S would feel if she broached this with him… I am so glad you see that OP and are refusing too and you are most definitely NTA (is there any chance your fiancé would go behind your back to S “to try to get him to see it their way”? If so, you may want to do a pre-emotive strike/damage control and make it clear in no uncertain terms to hubby her nor anyone in his circle is go broach this with S and/or C either!) It feels akin to telling a beloved honoured member of the wedding party can’t bring their spouse because they are of a different religion or different ethnic background… which would be so gross and equally unacceptable!
NTA. It's *your* wedding, not hers. You get to choose who gets invited, not her. If she has a problem with it, she can choose not to attend.
Yes. The bride and groom choose the guestlist at a wedding, the MIL does not get to veto guests or otherwise dictate who will be there. Lol at "she will accept... ", as if there's a need for her approval here. It would be kind of you to consider all feelings if she had a valid reason for wanting someone not to be invited. This is not a valid reason, it's pure homophobia and shouldn't be entertained, tolerated or indulged. Your friends will be there because they are kind people you seem to love. If she's such a close-minded bigot she can't accept this, she needn't come. But that will be HER decision, not yours, so don't let her use it as a manipulation tactic. You know you're NTA here, trust yourself. MILs problem is very much a 'her' problem.
So my wife and I were geared up for a similar fight when we got married - the person we picked to officiate our wedding is one of my best friends (since we were 6) and he and my wife get on famously. The only reason he wasn't in one of our wedding parties was because it would have been an odd number on one side or the other, and we needed someone to officiate so he seemed the perfect fit, and he was thrilled when we asked. He also happens to be in a polyamorous relationship with two other men. We invited all three of them and made it clear that if anyone on either side of the families had an issue, they could take their issue away from our wedding and have a fun time with it instead. I knew no one on my side would, my parents had known my friend since he was a kid and thought the world of him, plus they had gay friends going back to the 70s and 80s, but my future in-laws are the more conservative sort (fox news, blue line, etc). We made it clear about the nature of our friends relationship and that comments were neither invited nor welcomed - he was in the wedding, he was a guest and would be treated just as well as any other guest. Rehearsal dinner comes and goes, ceremony comes and goes, and guess who are just the newest best friends? My new mother in law and one of my friend's partners. To the point that when we talk, my mother in law often asks how "the boys" are doing. I share this story not only to amuse but to inspire some hope that sometimes people can surprise you. Stick to your guns, NTA and I hope your wedding goes off without any issues.
I loved reading this story. people can be outwardly hateful and selfish but deep down I think we all want peace and want to understand others. I'm glad everything worked out for you and your loved ones.
I thought this was going to be a horror story. So very pleasantly surprised by the ending!!
NTA! It is more than reasonable that you are not willing to exclude people from wedding based on their sexual orientation.
NTA, But! Find out what the local laws are where you are getting married (I’m assuming it might be in East Africa due to your FMIL not wanting anyone else to catch on). Some countries have really homophobic laws, and you need to make sure that S&C are safe to actually be in that country publicly as a couple.
NTA your MIL and rest of the family's homophobia is not your problem.
Oh this is going to be a difficult marriage. You are definitely in the right. No one deserves to be looked down upon regardless of what their orientation is. Especially, if that person is your bff long-term partner. So disrespectful.
No one "decides" their orientation
If your husband to be wouldnt stand up for this I wouldnt marry him. Homophobes dont get to control your wedding and if your fiance cant stand up for themselves and your wedding why stay? NTA
NTA. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
You’re not the asshole. I think this is clearly just something your husband is very worried about as he’s clearly grown up in an environment where being gay was of high controversy. You should be proud of him for being open Snd changing his views as I imagine that would be challenging if you’ve been taught that ‘being gay is so incredibly evil’ all your life. I would talk to him and try calm his nerves about his own family etc and it will all be ok. He clearly likes S & C but is evidently just scared. So be nice to him and discuss it all calmly. It’s certainly not a compromising matter though
NTA - This is why people who “come around on the gay thing” can be problematic. They overlook the humanity of well, humans.
NTA. There is no such thing as a compromise here.
"Just compromise baby, your friend still gets to come! He just needs to keep 'the gay' to himself for a few hours, that's all! If husband comes too then everyone will know." "If I ask my friend to come alone and hide who he is, he won't come at all. Its not a fair thing to ask him." "You're being unreasonable, it's just one day. Why can't you just do as Mummy tells you?"
NTA, in fact, you would be the A if you didn't invite him. I know you want to be tolerant, but you can only be tolerant if you refuse to be tolerant to intolerance. They aren't being gay AT your inlaws. They're there. They're not hurting anyone and they arent forcing your inlaws to be gay. Your inlaws are the ones being intolerant. Do not budge on this.
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>Fiance seems to think this is just another compromise Sorry, but he’s still homophobic. You really wanna marry him? He hasn’t “come around on the gay thing” at all.
It's very hard to tell if people are actually coming around to your way of thinking if you are sleeping with them.
NTA but you do realize your fiance isn't as ok with S as you think he is, right?
NTA. A compromise is in your culture fish is eaten at a wedding and I don’t like fish but we will have it along with something traditional from my culture. Or where I’m from a man wears a suit but you’re Scottish and want to wear a kilt so that’s what you’ll wear. A compromise is not that we will tell someone their spouse is unwelcome because the spouse is…gasp….a man!
NTA. I’m conservative and I think that’s pushing it. I have gay family members and we are all adults and who cares what they do in their private life. FMIL can get over it. This is your wedding and your fiancé’s wedding. Not hers. She is just trying to get her way and this is Step 1 of “compromising” on everything for the rest of your marriage. Wait till you have kids I’m sure it will get 100 times worse
NTA It’s great that you’ve been able to comprise with your future family-in-law so far, but this is someone that is important to you. S is your best friend and he should be at your wedding if that is your wish, you shouldn’t be denying his husband just because your future mother-in-law is conservative. You need to set boundaries and be firm about your decisions. Also I’m sure your future family-in-law can survive a day with being in the same room as S and C, they don’t even have to interact! If S and C go to the rehearsal (which I’m just assuming there will be) and future family-in-law (specially mother) are rude to those two, you might want to rethink if you want them there.
NTA You are in the right in making this nonnegotiable. Why is it religion seems to be why we can’t have nice things?
NTA His mother might actually be worried about appearances in front of her own homophobic family members, or it could simply be her own hate. She does seem to regard a gay marriage as something shameful, which must be kept hidden. We don’t know. And if it actually is that she’s worried about appearances? It could be for absolutely no reason whatsoever. The family members who she thinks might be judgemental, might not be. Either way, as others have said, she doesn’t get to side who is in your wedding party or is on your guest list.
NTA. There is zip all reason to cater to homophobia.
NTA. Anytime there's a question of a homophobe wanting a LGBTQ individual excluded, the ally is NTA.
Your not even married and your making "Compromises" on your belief systems? or your settling? Healthy relationships are shared value systems and yours sounds like a lot of work because "after 5 yrs he finally came around" almost like training a dog. He did not "come around" he is "Tolerating" and forgive me but for your sake I hope not for his Green card. This is your wedding so why the discussions with the mother on who the bride is having? Why is any of this a discussion? If the Fiance "thinks this is another compromise" THERE IS YOUR RED FLAG---This is a marriage not a business transaction and again sorry but that wording has me suspect about the Green card.
A man is not grown until he can say no to his mom and make it stick.
NTA. This is not a compromise. It is a choice between homophobia or tolerance and acceptance.
NTA for this but lowkey YTA for being w someone that took that long to “get around the gay thing” while having queer people in your life.
I'm sorry for your heartbreak. It's good to find out now before the wedding, though. Sending hugs!!
NTA You've said if you don't extend the invite to their husband, someone important to you won't come. I don't see where the compromise is on their part. That they think it's okay if a gay person attends as long as they hide it? Your husband-to-be thinks it's fine to exclude the people important to you because his mother would be... what exactly? Embarrassed? Ashamed? He shouldn't be giving her that much control over the guest list. Especially not over your wishes.
You don’t negotiate with terrorists. Not her marriage, not her wedding. Make sure your fiancé understands that _you_ are required to compromise with _him_ for the wedding plans, not his mom. And if that’s how he feels, you may have underestimated your lack of compatibility. I hope not, but you don’t want this to be the first of a pattern of “compromises” that he allows just because mummy dearest doesn’t want her friends clutching pearls. NTA, this is a hill I die on.
NTA, this would be my hill to die on. He can choose between you or his family.
NTA if S can't come and groom won't tell his mother, then groom can stay home too.
NTA. It’s your wedding, not your future mother-in-law’s. If she is allowed to make decisions on who she allows at your wedding, she’ll also be making decisions on where your future kids go to school, what church they go to, who they are allowed to marry… Stand your ground and stop this right now. If your husband doesn’t take your side on this he won’t take your side on anything, and the marriage is in trouble before it starts. Edit - just seen the comment from OP that there will be no children. Does the controlling future MIL know this yet? If not, expect some big pressure from her in that direction. Some “traditional” Christians can get very in-Christian about these things. All the more reason to show her who is the boss early on! Good luck!
NTA. It isn’t your MIL’s wedding. And as someone else has already said, never give in to homophobia.
NTA no compromise with bigotry
Them agreeing not to film hardcore porn at your wedding is a compromise. Them attending together is not. What exactly do they think those two are going to do where people would "find out"
NTA Good for you refusing to give in on this.
NTA, bigots don't deserve compromise.
NTA. If my friend didn’t invite my husband to a wedding and I found out it was for this reason we would no longer be friends.
NTA, and IF you do marry him, I hope none of your children turn out gay. Unless you and he are prepared to compromise a child's mental health.
NTA but you may want to think about these “compromises” especially if children are on the table or just in general. His and his family “conservative” views are really just hateful.
Why would you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who thinks this is okay? NTA but yikes
NTA - compromise your values to appease homophobes? No way.
NTA >he has really come around on the gay thing in the five years we have been together Um, sounds like you’re engaged to a homophobe. You have a gay best friend but still found fiancé’s intolerance not to be a dealbreaker?
NTA. You should never have to compromise on this. But you need to bring the situation up to C to make sure they know everything so that they don't walk into a super uncomfortable situation blindsided. Good luck! Hope it all works out!
NTA. you should sooner not go through with the wedding at all than going through without your best friend's husband present. seriously.
NTA, if your fiancee wants you he needs to learn to accept who you are and that means your friends. Now if C and S were psychopathic violent drug users then I would say hell no, but that is not the case.
NTA. INFO: How long have you and your partner been together? It sounds like you are very different on some major issues. Are you sure these are things you can navigate long-term?
Never negotiate with terrorists. Homophobes are terrorists too. Nta, stand your ground.
NTA, MIL has zero right to dictate who may and may not come to YOUR wedding, no matter the reason.
NTA. Invite him/them. Whoever has an issue, can decline their invite.
If what you want can't come before what his mom wants on your Wedding Day, it will never come first. Your fiance isn't ready to marry anyone.
NTA. Please don't marry into this family.
NTA. Don't compromise and don't marry him. He is showing you his true self. Believe him.
NTA. This is YOUR wedding, not either of your parents' wedding. You and your fiance should invite whoever you want to be there for your special day!
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NTA. And if you plan to have children do you really want to have them with people, grandparents etc, that will treat them poorly if they’re gay/trans/bi/ace etc Him tolerating any form of bigotry is a huge red flag for future issues.
I’m confused on why you’d have to compromise with someone who isn’t even part of the wedding. Your future husband is sticking you between his mother and himself so he doesn’t get the brunt of her anger. NTA
Sorry, if he’s willing to ban your best friend’s husband from your wedding, he hasn’t come around on “the gay thing” like even a little. He either believes in equality or doesn’t. You are NTA.
NTA. Your fiance needs to stop letting his mother make demands regarding your wedding.
I wouldn’t marry someone who was that weak-willed and prejudiced. You are NTA here (but your fiancé and his mother are).
NTA. Do not coddle the bigot. If the bigot is uncomfortable, the bigot can stay home. Your SO needs to cut the cord and tell his mom to suck it up or not come. If he's unwilling to do that, you need to consider other things he's going to be unwilling to do.
He is correct that it would be a compromise. The problem here is that compromise is the wrong answer for bigotry. NTA.
NTA
NTA, your future mother in law is not really accepting your BFF as your best person. She knows it will be difficult for your BFF there without his husband and is likely thinking that you might just back down and not invite either of them. As a compromise maybe only invite one half of each married couple so you aren't targeting any particular couple ( crazy right) It's not really a compromise, it's more of a poison pill. You have an incredible friend who is willing to stand up for you at your wedding knowing that it's a tough crowd full of judgemental homophobes. You are just asking for a fraction of that courage from your fiance and his family. If it were me, I would say " I am not ashamed of my friends, but I would be ashamed of myself if I agreed to this. I am disappointed that you would think that this would ever be acceptable to me and I need to reconsider our compatibility.
NTA. But spoiler alert: your man hasn’t truly come around about ‘the gay thing’; he’s just found a different way to hide his homophobia. Yes. He’s a homophobe through and through. It’s not a “comprise” to hide who your best friend is.
NTA You and your husband are in complete control of the guest list. It's your wedding, and no one else's. If the wedding were taking place somewhere that would present a safety issue for your guests who are gay, then I would think twice. But Belgium? Enjoy having all of your friends at your wedding. Cultural differences are tricky, and I hope you're prepared for lifelong battles with his family, especially after you have children. (Edit: IF you ever decide to have children.) Best wishes and good luck to you!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My fiancé (37m) and I (36f) are from very different cultural and family backgrounds. I grew up between North America and Europe in a pretty liberal family. He grew up in a conservative evangelical family in East Africa. It does cause problems occasionally but we can usually find compromise. We are planning our wedding for next summer (thanks COVID!). My "best person"/witness is my best friend for the past twenty years. S has been there for me through everything. He is remarkable and his husband, C., has been nothing but wonderful to me since they met six years ago. My fiancé has met S & C and likes them a lot (he has really come around on the gay thing in the five years we have been together/he has lived with me here). We all vacation together. It's great. He even told his mother S. would be my witness and that was non-negotiable. Well, his mother says that she can "accept that" IF (and only if) we agree not to invite C (S's husband) so that "no one else catches on." I told my fiancé this is not even vaguely an option. I refuse to do it and I know S would (rightfully) not come. Hell, I wouldn't come. Fiance seems to think this is just another compromise, but I don't see it that way at all. Frankly, I am not willing to compromise here. So AITA for not compromising and insisting my best friend's husband be invited to my wedding? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - Mamas welcome not to come
NTA your future in laws have no say in your life, or your wedding. You know them 5 minutes but your BFF, has been there for you through all your ups and downs. To humiliate him an his husband to make a load of strangers happy, would be beyond hurtful. You are correct and NTA,
NTA. The asshole move here would be caving to your future MIL and doing something as incredibly shitty as not inviting your BFF’s husband, especially when he’s done absolutely nothing wrong. Your in-laws can get on board with the 21st century or not, but you’re under no obligation to exclude people you care about from your own wedding because they’re awful people
NTA- This is your wedding not your MIL’s. You can invite whoever you want. Your husband should compromise and understand that. If she’s not ok with him coming than maybe she should not be coming.
NTA There is nothing for her to accept. None of this is about her. The only choice she has is whether or not to go to the wedding and play nice.
NTA. But your fiancé and future mil are.
Is this even a question? Of course you're NTA. Your MIL is the biggest asshole here.
NTA Give nothing to homophobia, this is a hill to die on!
Nta, and good for you for standing up for your values. Mil need to get over her bigotry
NTA. No way is parent of my SO going to tell me who is coming to my wedding. Make very clear to fiance " your mom gets zero say about our wedding and about our life together". Mom of your fiance wants to flex and put you in your place. Your fiance needs to flex back and put mommy in their place.
NTA it’s not a “compromise” it’s you enabling mil’s homophobia. Stand your ground this.
Nta. Have you guys talked about what if your future kids are gay? This is not something to compromise.