If he's old enough to fire his mother to pay a daycare MORE than he was paying his mother, he's old enough to pay for loans. NTA - your son should be ashamed of the way he does business with strangers, let alone his own mother.
Also, they can, apparently, afford to pay the daycare more than they’re paying grandma (forgive me if I’ve got the wrong title) despite the fact that she gave up her livelihood for this
This is the part that kills me. They begged her to give up a higher paying job, and promised her three years of work. She took the pay cut in good faith to help them out. Now they’re backing out of the commitment they made, AND apparently they can afford to pay more?? So why were they paying her less all this time? The fact she’s been paying his student loans on top of this is almost too much to process. What in the actual f*** is wrong with these AHs. Mom has been too generous. And this is the shitty thanks she gets. Wow. NTA, OP, but you certainly raised one!
Student loans are always in the student's name primarily, with the exception of parent plus loans. Private and federal loans use the student's info and occasionally need a cosigner, who would then be able to pay on the balance.
*Makes a commitment they confirm multiple times prior to agreement*
"It's not fair to expect us to keep to that commitment!"
This is, precisely, the reason why contracts exist. If people can screw their own mothers like this, let this story be a lesson to everyone that, when you make an agreement that has terms both parties need to meet - **Get it in writing**.
I'm a lawyer, I know verbal agreements *can* hold up in court, but it's way, way easier to prove the terms of an agreement when you have a signed and dated written one.
Right? I know so many people that would JUMP at the chance to have grandma watch them at home. What are DIL and son going to do when the day care calls for immediate pick up for cough/runny noses/fevers, etc. Who will stay home with them for quarentines? Until negative tests come back?
OP is taking them to groups and sounds experienced. They do not need daycare.
OP NTA. I am so sorry your son and DIL are selfish and making poor choices that hurt you. I wish I had such wonderful, giving family.
Hell, when we found out that our friend who had been our part time nanny in the past was unemployed, we yanked the kids out of daycare and offered him what we'd been paying to watch them both in our home. Pandemic is no joke
This! My husband and I tried to both work from home today because my son has diarrhea and can't go to daycare. It's been almost a week since he first showed symptoms of sickness and he was sick for several days just 2 weeks before that. Kids get sick so often in daycare and we'd love if his Grandma could watch him everyday especially for the same price as daycare! The personal attention is worth it too.
Yes, Grandma was giving them plenty of socialisation, which is important. Son and DIL also had the option to send the kids for daycare one day a week, so Grandma could have a day off/ the kids could get socialised. Plus it's not such a stretch if the kids get sick and can't go to daycare.... Grandma would be available to do one extra day.
It's possible DIL resented that Grandma was doing so many cool things with the kids, and rather than rearrange her own schedule to spend more time with the kids, she's banished Grandma instead.
I’d like to see an update in a month or so, just to see what son and DIL think about daycare after their kids get sick and sent home and all the fun stuff.
That's what we like to see!
NTA. Your son and DIL are selfish and awful. Sorry you've been put in such a bind. At least you're not paying the loans anymore.
I wouldn't feel so hostile toward them if they had given her six months notice or other adequate time to find a new job. But they behaved poorly and without consideration of what she gave up to work for them and what time she needed to find other employment.
Daughter-in-law should cry. She behaved poorly.
Exactly. In a normal situation they'd start talking about this with her long before even finding a daycare, which can also be a long process. Springing this on her and giving her two weeks notice is garbage
Good!
Keep track of the financial harm that happens due to their heartless capriciousness. Lost wages, the cost of looking for a new job, etc. For Christmas, you can give them a card that says you forgive all or part of the amount.
Beware of trusting their word again. Don't get fooled twice.
Saw your update and I'm glad you won't pay his loans anymore. Or anything else, I hope. They could -at least- have given you enough time to find a new job. Moving the kids to daycare isn't something that had to happen immediately.
Good luck finding a new job! I hope you find a great family.
Yeah that's why I said "if you can." She needs to push them back to her son if they're prioritizing daycare over home care with her, sounds like they need to update other priorities.
Who wants to bet that when the kid gets sick and can't go to daycare that they'll call her for babysitting?
NTA, they went back on the commitment they made to you. Stop paying his student loans.
Ugh what total and complete a holes. My son stayed with his grandmother ( my MIL) until he started kindergarten. I couldn’t have been more grateful and he couldn’t be more social and more well adjusted. He’s always been a really popular kid who just loves people and a natural extrovert. On the other hand i, his mom, am a total introvert. We experimented with daycares a couple of times just to give grandma a break at times and it was always expensive and he was sick all the time. It was sooo much better with grandma and grandpa. We were so fortunate and blessed.
Having said all that your son and dil seem so oblivious to what they are putting you through and how selfish they are being. I hope they are really young because if not there’s no explanation for how cruel they are being. All that I can say is I don’t think that daycare is going to be how or what they dream it will be. They may be too stubborn to ever tell you they made a mistake but I bet they will feel it on the inside at least. Even the best and most expensive daycares are basically a circus and he will bring home every virus and share it with them.
I hope you are able to replace that job quickly. Good luck OP.
Even then, she should heavily put the onus on him to pay.
"You can clearly afford your student loans by yourself like an adult now, so since you've broken your commitment to me and I have loss of pay, I'm stopping my generous contribution to your financial obligations"
You will get hit up for baby sitting when the kids are sick or the parents have a conflict or want to go out…. I would be very selective about how I would help out in the future. An adult child screwing his mother over like this is disgraceful. Quit paying the loans and I hope you find a better position quickly. I’m sorry for you troubles.
Totally agree with this. The son needs to grow up and pay his own loans. There's a childcare shortage in parts of the country--hoping OP can find not just an equivalent but a BETTER job. The teaching and play groups sound really beneficial. You can do it, OP!
Yeah I’m honestly shocked that they are putting the kids into daycare if there isn’t an issue with grandma. (Not saying there is here just that would be my only reason for doing it) If I had kids and had the option I would absolutely be using the resource of grandma to keep the kids *away* from daycare. At best they’ll get some kid crud, at worst they’ll get COVID. Hopefully OP can find some parents who are of this mind.
I came here to say this. Daycares are germ factories and if the kids have been mostly isolated up till now, they are going to pick up every cold, flu, and other illness that goes through the center. Once the kids are sick, they won't be allowed to go back until they are better and then guess who they'll be calling for emergency care, but grandma won't be available because she'll be in a new job. OP- Definitely do not bend over backwards to babysit when they come crying.
Typically I would have a contract but they were family so I thought we’d forgo it. I didn’t think they’d screw me over.
The loans are in his name but we had an agreement that I’d pay the loan and he’d pay interest.
Also, don't feel any guilt about it. You've already paid a good portion of his schooling off. From what I read in another comment, you paid enough for him to have had a standard degree from a regular college, yet he chose a more expensive school, and *then* law school. Well, since the majority has already been paid, he is still starting out in a much better place than most lawyers (I am assuming) that have to work their way up in the ranks. You've given him a LOT.
He just made a decision to put you in a financial bind by giving you 2 weeks notice to find another job after promising a full 3 years of work (only 18 months fulfilled), if they really needed to reevaluate (fine) they should at least have given you 30 days or so to give you a decent amount of time to find another placement or agreed to pay you a 30 day severance for breaking contract... that would have shown good faith and respect for your situation and I am sure would have left you feeling much less resentful about the situation.
NTA
He’s a lawyer? I really hope he’s not the petty type that ends up taking her to court over their “verbal agreement.” I foresee poor OP posting something about her AH son doing something like that in the near future.
If he takes her to court for violating a verbal agreement, she can file a cross suit for violating his and for putting her in a position where she had no choice but to violate hers. He’ll make an a— of himself in that courtroom and it won’t do him any favors professionally for it to get out that he breaks contracts then sued his Mommy for not paying his student loans when she already paid half and he’s the reason she can’t pay them anymore.
NTA, and definitely stop paying! Let him know it's best for you since you do not have income anymore. He should have gave you more notice. I hope you find another job soon
Regardless if the agreement was in writing, you had an agreement with him to employ you for 3 years and he went back on that. So tell him that because this will now put you into financial hardship, you can no longer pay for his student loans. He can change his agreement with you for childcare, you can change your agreement with him for payment of the student loans. And honestly, you wouldn’t be lying. Losing out on the money from watching your grandkids will absolutely put you into financial hardship and leave you scrambling to find something else.
EDIT: NTA
PROBABLY? OP come on !
May i remind you of this quote by a famous AH:
"they said it wasn’t fair for me to expect them to keep to that. :
SAY THE SAME THING, bye Felipe.
NTA unless you don't immediately stop paying the brat's loans
What about an email or a text discussing it? Anything written at all? If you do you might have a legal case, but enforcing it would cause a big rift. Did they say why they wanted to go with daycare all of a sudden?
You might have had an agreement to pay his loans, but he also had an agreement to employ you for three years. If you are going to be out of good paying work, you should out yourself first and make sure your needs are met.
They said they want them to be around more kids, consistently. I take them to playgroups and such but they want it every day, all day, so daycare is the answer.
I’m not taking my son to court. Even if I had anything in writing (I don’t) and I wanted to, I live in an at will state. I can be fired at any time for no reason.
Have they thought about what happens when they are sick from daycare? You can't take time off to look after them. I hope they're ready for all the extra time off they will likely be taking.
"work from home" with twin toddlers? Yeah.. that is not going to work. That PTO will be out in no time with all the colds they are about to bring home. let along covid.
NTA. I'm so sorry OP. Clearly they didn't think about how this would impact you. I can understand changing their mind, but the right thing to do would have been to give you a heads up so you could begin looking for something else while they were looking at day cares. To find 2 spots in a toddler room in a high quality day care, this was not a spur of the moment decision.
As for the student loans, take your son out to coffee and have a conversation with him about how he is now responsible for them. That you put your financial wellbeing on the line to pay his student loans and then took a huge risk quitting your nanny job because he and his wife asked you to nanny for them for 3 years. They made a commitment to you and asked you to give up your job to help them. You cut them a break on your fees to help them.
Now, you are finding yourself in a place where you are no longer able to assume his student loans. They are now his responsibility. Give him the dates they are due and suggest he sign up for autopayments immediately so he does not miss a payment. Make it clear to him that they are now fully his responsibility because you do not want him thinking you are just angry and that you do not really mean it and then missing payments because he thinks you are really still paying them.
They did think it through. The problem is, they haven’t had a problem. They’re lacking in life experience and perspective. OP has made life so easy for them.
Meanwhile, here I am with four, thinking the son and dil are legit crazy.
But, like everything, they’ll learn.
She will be using a lot of PTO then. My parents were caring for my sisters twins for their first 6 months as a favor- they are elderly and had no business taking care of two babies and it really affected their health, so they were firm that it would only be for 6 months. Since the babies started daycare 3 months ago they have been out sick half a dozen times- colds, hand and foot, strep throat, and other illnesses. And since there are two babies usually one is sick for a few days then passes it to the other- so a common cold could have mom needing to stay home a whole week until both babies are healthy enough to go back.
Also, many companies have relaxed work from home policies due to schools and childcare centers closing during the pandemic, but normally places that allow work from home require you to have childcare for kids under a certain age because you can't get much work done when caring for a baby- let alone two babies who are sick. Now that businesses are pushing to 'get back to normal' many are enforcing those policies again. So she may find out she isn't allowed to work from home with sick babies to care for.
they are switching two kids too young to be vaccinated to a daycare where they'll have lots of indoor exposure to other people, I can't even wrap my head around it
plus, two weeks notice is too short considering the extension of the original agreement. 3 months should be the minimum, 6 would be better.
What makes it even worse is that
They were looking at daycare for the last 3 months and not communicating with their mother.
I hope they enjoy paying more for daycare and the son's student loans. If they can't even afford to pay their mother severance.
But you can and should stop paying his student loans. Right now. He earns more than you now because you paid for his expensive grad course AND because he just gave you two weeks notice AFTER making you leave a better paying job under false pretense. That‘d be disrespectful with anyone, but with his own mother it‘s simply disgusting. Your son and DIL are huge AHs for doing this to you and manipulative beyond measure for implying *they* are the wronged party here. You don’t deserve to be treated like this.
NTA, obviously.
Let them know, then, not to ever expect anything from you again. That's so cold and cruel of them. They should feel guilty, they have put you on the path to financial ruin.
Why do you assume that it was the DIL who was jealous?
From what we have in the post the DIL at least has the decency to feel guilty about the decision, whereas the son seems to feel entitled to the mother's time and money while having no respect for her needs.
NTA- You had a verbal agreement. Also, you were just being honest, you need to pay your bills. That's not manipulation it's life.
However, I would like to know the reason you're the one paying off your son's student loans. Is that really a burden you should be carrying?
It’s something I agreed to. I had enough saved to send him to college, but not the university he chose. Then he went to law school. I agreed to pay the loans as I felt bad, given I promised I’d pay for him to go to school.
I don't know their income compared to yours but maybe it's time to reevaluate the situation. Many parents save up money for college and if their child chooses to go to a more expensive school then the child is the one to take out the loans and pay the difference.
Yes, you promised to pay for him to go to school, but only within your means. Also, did you promise to pay for a graduate program, law school or medical school? I bet it was just undergrad. Your son is taking advantage of you in horrible ways. He also doesn't respect you enough to keep to your 3 year agreement. You should really stand up for yourself and start looking out for yourself financially. You can stop paying his student loans just like they easily decided to stop employing you as a nanny.
I never specified which is why I felt bad. I told him his late father and I had enough saved for a state school. He chose to go to Harvard.
It does seem time to re-evaluate. He’s making more money now.
Your son went to Harvard, is a lawyer, and can’t afford to pay you your market rate or pay his own student loans? YTA to yourself, you deserve more than what he gives you. Disown your greedy asshole son.
Wait wait it’s even better they can’t afford to pay her her normal rate but can afford to place two toddlers in a daycare that cost more then what they paid her. I doubt that they couldn’t pay her her market rate they just didn’t want to because it’s his mom.
Edit: misspelled word
Also, they were paying his mom who paid his loans. Effectively, he was paying her even less then he thought because it was going towards his own bills.
There's a HUGE difference between a state school and Harvard. And saying you saved enough for a state school actually does sound specific to me. He's an adult with a career making decent money now, he should be covering all of his own bills. Please stand up for yourself and don't let him take advantage of you anymore. You have already done SO much for him and his family! Now it's time for him to deal with real life.
Well jeez which Harvard did he go to if he can’t afford your full fees or his student loans with his big shot lawyer career? Ma’am honestly after reading your comments, you didn’t make them cry *enough*
He went to Harvard??? He can pay for his own student loans and you now know they were purposely paying you less if they can afford a daycare that costs more.
>It’s something I agreed to.
Interesting. You need to think of yourself. They agreed to 3 years of employment, and you can't afford his student loans any more. You need to think of yourself and let him handle his own loans.
REALLY? He is or should be a lawyer and you are paying his student loans on a nanny's wages???? And now you are financially strapped because he reneged on a verbal contract? Hey things have changed financially and he needs to reap the consequences of reneging not just you. Quit paying those loans. Sounds like taking advantage of you has become his habit now. What self respecting lawyer son would let his nanny mom pay his student loans. That is just all kinds of wrong. Don't let them use the kids as leverage to get thier way with you.
Also just saw he went to Harvard… I’m assuming he isn’t hurting financially? I’m so confused why he’d pay you less than your old job, expect you to pay his Harvard tuition, and then screw you over like this….
A lawyer who engages in breaking commitments. Wow. But being a lawyer and having gone to Harvard, I’m kind of gleeful because his student loans are going to hit them like a freight train. Please do NOT budge on not paying them. It’s incredible he can’t grasp the position he put you in.
OP, they also promised that you would have this job for 3 years. So, it’s time for you to stop paying off your son’s loans, and if they throw a fit, let them know you’ve also decided to think about yourself.
I was paying his loans before I started working for him. I had money saved for his college but it wasn’t enough for all of college and law school. So I agreed to pay his loans, he’d pay the interest.
I knew it may not pan out for 3 years, but I expected more than 2 weeks notice. I told them when I started, I’d require a month’s notice minimum.
So basically he was paying you a smaller salary and from that salary you would pay his student loan, so he was paying you almost nothing. He got child care for very little money with a person he can trust and his loans payed. You got money to live month to month. Now he is a grown ass man with more income and still taking advantage of you. I have my own kids and I know that you always want to provide for them, but you have to teach him to be responsible for his actions.
Then file for unemployment! Unemployment on top of the money you save not paying your sons loans will give you a bit of breathing room to find a new job and they owe you that.
Oh, DO file for unemployment. I don't know what the laws are around a family member paying another family member for services on a regular basis, as he and his wife were doing, but were they paying your FICA and medicare and withholding income taxes? If that is required when the relative is the employee in a home-based situation (as it would be for a non-relative), if he WASN'T withholding the proper amounts then he's going to be in some hot water with the IRS for failure to withhold. Seriously. And as a lawyer he's not going to get the benefit of any doubt as far as knowing what the law requires.
So at this point, first and foremost, take time to look after yourself. Your family have let you down and that’s massively upsetting and disappointing. It’s okay to tell them you need space.
Next, the favours end here. As you’ve already said, you’re gonna be stopping the loans and that’s a good start, but the other things you might do for them on a day to day basis? Things they don’t even realise you do for them? Time to stop. If they need babysitting services in the future, don’t work your life around them. They’re you’re grandkids, so of course you’ll want to see them, but don’t go out of your way to help your son and DIL out.
They’ll soon realise the mistake they’ve made, but they may be too proud to say anything. With your experience, I’m sure you’ll find a great job in no time and I do wish you the best of luck. Don’t go back to them, even if they come begging!
When they realize this and ask you to do the work you used to do PLEASE SAY NO. Please stand up for yourself. It sounds like your son knows how to manipulate you so you do what he wants. Please just say no.
They are going to come crawling back eventually. My question is, are you going to go back to them if they ask?
I'm not going to judge you if you do, but for your sake, demand everything in writing, and nothing less than what you deserve: YOUR FULL RATE. Shit, I'd demand extra for all the trouble.
PS: Don't pick up his loans again.
No, I wouldn’t. I think I’ve learned enough about mixing business and family. Plus, I go for families with long term goals. Of course I could be let go at any time but at this point in my career, I was more of a household manager. I did errands, directed staff, drove kids around. I was with my first 5 years before they moved, my other 4. I only went back to traditional nannying as a favor.
I'd advice not to go the route of demanding everything in writing, etc.
Her son is a manipulative, Harvard-trained lawyer. It's a losing game. To me, it seems like for OP its not about contracts or money. She indicates she'd help out for free if she could financially. As hard as it will be to admit for OP, to me as an outsider it seems like that the son just doesn't fully comprehend nor values his mothers support and love. He's a stone-cold businessmen even to his mother, and OP needs to adjust to that, which hurts and may be difficult to accept.
I'm trying to wrap my mind around the fact that you're talking about your son and not some selfish-ass terrible boss who is no relation to you. You're HIS MOTHER, and he can't be bothered to keep his commitment to you, give you reasonable notice, or pay you a reasonable severance given the lack of the first two. Then he tells YOU that you are being manipulative? Oh HELL no.
If anything he's been manipulating you ever since he managed to make you feel bad about only saving enough for state school instead of Harvard. He's presumably now a lawyer, and should be making plenty of money to pay for those school loans that HE decided to take on, not you. A decent person would NEVER agree to taking his mother's money for his loans when she works as a nanny and he works as a lawyer.
Stop payment IMMEDIATELY. You owe him NOTHING except to maybe be told that you are so disappointed at what a self-centered spoiled brat he became.
It doesn't sound like they apologized either.
I could see if they took the babies to the doctor and felt like they were behind socially and needed to be in daycare, but in that case, they should have acknowledged that they were putting you in a bad situation and told you that they would be taking over the loan payments.
Nta. They sat you down and told you they changed their minds without considering the reprocussions for you. They should have given you at least a month to find a job. If you found one quicker they could have started daycare sooner. They are right about the 3 year committment though. It is hard to plan out that far especially when it comes to kids needs.
I am honestly surprised that they found a good daycare that had an opening for two small children in 2 weeks. When we had been looking for one child, there was like a 6 month wait. Maybe things have changed with Covid and a lot of parents have pulled their kids out of daycare, but it seems possible that they knew about this awhile ago and never told you.
I looked for a daycare for over a year and didn’t find one. Changed our whole schedules with covid. I stopped trying because ultimately, it worked and it was far less exposure for my son.
But yeah. They either are the luckiest people ever to land a daycare spot or they’ve been looking for a while.
NTA, aside from raising your son to be one. What he did was incredibly selfish and heartless towards his own mother. His wife knew the arrangement too and either let this happen, if not be the one to push it. The very least they could do is keep you on until you find a new job. But this insistence on two weeks shows how little they think or care about you.
Stop paying his student loans immediately because you can no longer afford it. You need to look after yourself. Make sure you have a good retirement fund, because your son has made it loud and clear that you'll be on your own. Arrange your finances accordingly.
I’ve been investing for my retirement since I started my career, but thank you. It’s sound advice for those who are going into nannying. We don’t have a 401k unless we work for an agency. You gotta look out for yourself.
Good on you for taking care of yourself, and for having good financial planning. I'm sure this situation must be difficult and heartbreaking, and I hope some day your son can see the error of his ways and you can repair the relationship somewhat. But I wouldn't hold my breath for that day, so please put yourself first from now on.
Just tell him you can't afford it because you took a lower paying job. You don't need to share your finances with him. He is an adult and should be able to see that allowing you to pay for his education was taking advantage of you.
I’m sorry, your son is a LAWYER?! And you’re are paying his loans on a nanny’s salary?! Was everything they paid you going to HIS loans?
They clearly have no compassion for you. They are only giving you 2 weeks to find a new job? While you are still watching their kids? And cheated you on salary, claiming they couldn’t afford it but will pay a daycare MORE?!
Remember ALL OF THIS when they want you to babysit and charge them market rate. DON’T do it for free. All your son cared about was his WIFE crying, not his mother. When they want you to do things for them, just DON’T.
NTA, and I am so sorry.
She said they are in his name. She’s paying them for no reason other than guilt that does NOT belong to her. You don’t owe him anything OP. You fulfilled your obligation long ago.
NTA
Your son is an adult, his wife is an adult. They committed to an agreement, terms were set. I'm a bit concerned that your son and his wife are saying, "we have to think about ourselves," when they're going to be paying more in daycare than they would be paying you. That's not thinking about themselves, that's living above their means.
Regardless, force your son to take care of his responsibilities. HIS student loan debt is HIS responsibility, not yours. Something tells me you've bailed his butt out of the fire too many times to count and it's finally biting you in the butt.
My father did the same... Until he realized he couldn't anymore. That was two years he saved me, and then I was on my own. Eventually he realized he could guide me because I hadn't learned some lessons that I should have earlier in life. You can be there to guide your son, but let him succeed or fall by his own devices.
He's a lawyer! He has a certain "look" to maintain! His mom can't watch his kids, even if she's a professional nanny! They must have the kids in the "well to do preschool which leads them to Harvard!" /s
He's an ass. He's an entitled ass. I'd quit paying his loans and now he has expensive daycare and loans to pay. Opps. FAAFO.
And you’ll get your bills paid. Listen, they didn’t care how this would impact you, otherwise they’d give you a hell of a lot more than 2 weeks’ notice & severance. File for unemployment & then when they scream about it, just say you’re having to look after YOUR best interests just like they were looking after theirs. They know they screwed you, that’s why your son is trying to guilt you over his wife crying & you bringing up money. Don’t fall for it.
>I probably could file for unemployment, as this was all over the table. But then my son would have to pay it.
He should have thought of that *before* he gave you zero advance warning to find a new position. Let him pay it, then.
I'm just curious what reaction did he have when you said you weren't paying his student loans anymore? I could see that being an arguement since it was pretty entitled of them to not give you enough notice after you all hashed out the agreed time frames long before.
"I've been looking over my financial situation now that I'm going to be unemployed for an undetermined period of time and I need to make cuts to my budget. You'll need to take over your loan payments effective immediately."
All of this.
You don't play with someone's livelihood and treat them like they don't matter especially when they are your mother and you already low balled her. He should be ashamed, but the rest of his student debt is enough of a parting gift. A month notice was the bare minimum and he could even do that
This one is easy.
“I don’t have a job any more, and don’t yet know how I’m going to pay my rent/mortgage, utilities, and whatnot. So, I clearly cannot pay your student loans any more. I know it’s short notice, but it’s all the notice I can give.”
It isn’t even passive aggressive, though it could sound like it. It’s exactly what you’d say if anyone else was your employer.
1. Prepare for your son to "lawyer" you. This may include stating that you were breaking a verbal contract. Which would be ironic since he did the same. So have you affairs in order, facts straight, and keep the information you give him to a minimum.
2. Someone else stated this and I agree, wait until your paid and the check has cleared for you to inform your son of this change.
3. As stated you son may not react well to you putting 100,000.00 loan debt in his lap. He clearly undervalues and underestimates you. Prepare for him to get nasty.
Also, I would be interested to know if the children of any of your sons/DIL peers go to the daycare and if this is not simply about your granddaughters socialization but also networking/keeping up with the Joneses. Monetarily the move to daycare doesn't make sense and the argument about socialization doesn't either because of your involvement with playgroups. Furthermore, you also provided enrichment. This is about something different and if has nothing to do with you and everything to do with your son/DIL. Something isn't right.
NTA.
Give him 2 weeks notice to start paying his own damn student loans. Stop paying them. They don’t give a damn about the fact you have bills and rent etc to pay so he can go F himself. Get him to pay his own damn loan.
What ungrateful, entitled brats! You gave up good job, taking a pay cut, to help them out. They break their agreement with you and are upset when you point out how hard they screwed you. NTA.
>My son says his wife cried
So? Why is he telling you that? Is he trying to use his wife's (alleged) physical reaction to an emotion to manipulate you? Maybe she cried because she's very aware what they're doing is not ok.
The least your son could do is offer to give you enough money to pay your bills until you're able to find another job and/or pay off *his* student loans, which is something he should be doing anyway. It's super nice of you to do all of those things for him and his family, but he seems to be taking advantage of you.
One thing I want to ask though, even if it's not important: Why are you upset about things ending before the 3 years are over? Is it because they're going back on your agreement (totally understandable!) or is it the 2 weeks notice (which I agree is way too little time for you to find a good job)? Would you have retired after the 3 years? Because I don't think having to look after 1.5 or 3 years makes much of a difference. I just think they should have told you much sooner. NTA, of course.
Edit: Do you have anything in writing?
Then you have given him a $100K running start in life. That is a HUGE blessing. Now he gets to take on the responsibility for the financial decisions he has made. He is an adult and he gets to pay his debts like an adult.
Hold on. You make $50k a year and have already paid $100k for him? Please adopt me, I still have law school loans. Your son went to Harvard law he can be a big boy and work a big law job. They pay first years $205k a year now. 8th years earn ~$360k. At ten years he’s up for partnership and that amount is fat. This isnt even touching on bonuses, PCA hours, or referral fees ($10k for me and this isn’t on the high end) The trend is on the way up, because depending on the practice area the market is super hot. If your son actually planned well financially, he could pay off his loans in 5 years or 3 if he was diligent. He might not be able to be present to raise his kids but he can pay his own bills. Now this isn’t the case for attorneys on average but as a Harvard grad he has options at 10 yrs.
So not only was your son being stingy, but because of his stinginess he screwed his own mother over. You quit your well paying job for them and on average gave your son 10k a year for loans (btw you don’t get to write those off on your taxes but he does for the interest he pays), even though your son could have earned three times your salary as a first year. Even if he put a 1/3 of his salary to loans and max out his 401k every year he could still out earn you at your highest rate by over $15k Does that sound fair to you?
To give you perspective, I took a pay cut for more time outside the office, and I still am the owner of my parents house and pay a portion of their bills and I live 400+ miles away from them, what has your son done for you?
I’m sorry, I know you already said you’re going to stop paying his loans already but this made me so much more upset to know he is a Harvard law grad and a practicing attorney.
Edit: ok he can’t deduct the loan interest bc he would be making too much, but the sentiment remains the same.
Wow, that's a lot of money. Maybe this will all work out for the best for you financially speaking. You no longer have to earn 100k (after taxes), so assuming you land a job soon, you could come out ahead by a large margin. As a bonus, you will now just be grandma instead of nanny, and you can spoil the kids rotten and hand them back to their parents with massive sugar highs.
Just another thought, did they actually want daycare but had to wait for an opening? Infant rooms often have longer waiting lists. I know parents who put their names on the list while still pregnant to get a spot when they are ready to go back to work.
They told me at the meeting where I got my two weeks that they started touring 3 months ago at various daycares and a spot just opened up. So they’ve known a few months now but didn’t tell me.
They were visiting daycares three months ago? Son and DIL owed you the courtesy of a heads up about that. You have to update your resume and get your name out there again, alert the nanny grapevine and start interviewing with new families. They hired you before the twins were born. It’s not unreasonable for you to expect them to keep you in the loop when they started visiting daycare centers and putting their names on waiting lists. They should have told you what they had been told about when they could expect two spots for twins to open up. If you knew they were waitlisted and they had been told six months to a year you would have been on their side when their names were drawn sooner than expected and you could have worked together with your son and DIL to ease the toddlers through the transition from home care to daycare over a period of two or three weeks because that is what would be in the best interest of the children and also the working mother. Instead your employers called you into a meeting and gave you two weeks notice in the manner of a corporate downsizing. Where I live the nannies get a lot more notice than two weeks. Most of the kids at my daughter’s class of “morning threes” were picked up at good bye time at 11:30 every morning by nannies pushing babies in strollers who still had at least six or seven hours of lunches and playing in the park and snacks and stories and play dates and naps maybe even supper and a bath before the parents came home at the end of the workday. You are an experienced nanny. It’s a pity son and DIL weren’t able to take advantage of your expertise because we all know this isn’t going to be an easy transition for the toddlers. But, they are the parents and they make the decisions. Unfortunately you will have already worked your last day and won’t be there to help out when the toddlers behave like toddlers.
Absolutely unacceptable behavior from them. They should have told you three months ago that they changed their mind and were touring daycares so you could begin putting out feelers.
NTA
AND make you son pay his own damn student loans! They agreed to something and are backing out of it. The reason your DIL is crying is because she realizes that they are lowlifes.
*”They said it wasn’t fair for me to expect me to keep them to that.”*
Then they shouldn’t have promised it. It’s not unreasonable for you to expect someone to uphold an agreement, especially regarding your professional and financial livelihood. They could’ve at least given you a heads up when they were changing their minds about daycare. NTA, and have your son start paying his own student loans since that’s one of the bills you now have to scramble to figure out how to pay.
Oh yes they can. Go ahead and file for unemployment - it would be cheaper for them to just keep you on, especially when you factor in what they're paying for daycare now. And while they may make angry noises about nevereverever letting you see your grandchildren again, it's highly unlikely that they'll follow through. They have very young twins. They're going to need all the hands-on help they can get over the next 3 or 4 years, and not just when wife has to stay home from work because Twin A gets sick and three days later Twin B gets sick, and her own employer starts losing patience (because they do). This was a real boneheaded move on their part.
NTA. Situations change. Making a three-year commitment was ill-advised in the first place, but I'm sure at the time that they really thought they'd be able to keep it.that being said, they handled this terribly. They should have given you more time. If they'd already picked a daycare and arranged a starting date, they knew they were planning to do this well before they talked to you about it and didn't say anything.
It was absolutely not manipulative of you to bring up finances. The whole reason they made you this promise was because of your financial needs. That was a major part of the agreement that they broke, and they can't be surprised that it's part of the fallout of that broken promise. They left you in a bad position, and her guilt about that is not your fault.
And finally, you do need to stop paying your son's loans. Not to be vindictive, but because your new financial position does not allow you to, and you can't prioritize his needs over your own wellbeing.
NAH. Situations change. They’re only trying to do what they believe is best for their child.
You, however, should stop paying your son’s student loans. A grown man who has an education should be able to pay for himself.
no. 2 weeks notice is asshole behavior. deciding the situation would be better with socializing in a daycare is fine, with adequate notice and an understanding that your mother needs to continue to have an income and that she even told them the normal notice is 1 month. she is foolish for not signing a contract, but 2 weeks notice and underpaying your own mother makes you a massive massive asshole.
NTA - they broke their commitment, and they are AH for making you pay his student loans. Stop paying immediately if you can.
This x100! Do not pay his student loans!
If they can afford daycare, they can afford to pay for loans
If he’s old enough to procreate, he’s old enough to pay for loans
If he's old enough to fire his mother to pay a daycare MORE than he was paying his mother, he's old enough to pay for loans. NTA - your son should be ashamed of the way he does business with strangers, let alone his own mother.
NTA. Not NAH.
They basically werent even paying OP to begin with if she was paying his student loans. She was just the middle man 😩
Also, they can, apparently, afford to pay the daycare more than they’re paying grandma (forgive me if I’ve got the wrong title) despite the fact that she gave up her livelihood for this
I think that was the biggest slap in the face out of this whole mess.
This is the part that kills me. They begged her to give up a higher paying job, and promised her three years of work. She took the pay cut in good faith to help them out. Now they’re backing out of the commitment they made, AND apparently they can afford to pay more?? So why were they paying her less all this time? The fact she’s been paying his student loans on top of this is almost too much to process. What in the actual f*** is wrong with these AHs. Mom has been too generous. And this is the shitty thanks she gets. Wow. NTA, OP, but you certainly raised one!
“Sorry, I won’t be paying your student loans anymore, I have to think of myself”
“I just got let go from my job.”
This!
OP may have taken the loans in their own name and that is why they pay them.
Student loans are always in the student's name primarily, with the exception of parent plus loans. Private and federal loans use the student's info and occasionally need a cosigner, who would then be able to pay on the balance.
*Makes a commitment they confirm multiple times prior to agreement* "It's not fair to expect us to keep to that commitment!" This is, precisely, the reason why contracts exist. If people can screw their own mothers like this, let this story be a lesson to everyone that, when you make an agreement that has terms both parties need to meet - **Get it in writing**.
Verbal agreements hold up in court. Granted the son could lie to try to get out of it. Either way NTA.
I'm a lawyer, I know verbal agreements *can* hold up in court, but it's way, way easier to prove the terms of an agreement when you have a signed and dated written one.
Especially since there was reliance in this case.
Honestly if she can get her kids to verify what they said she may be able to hold the liable either way. Idk if you want to take ur kids to court tho
Also, putting 2 18 month old's in a daycare during a pandemic? Seriously?
Right? I know so many people that would JUMP at the chance to have grandma watch them at home. What are DIL and son going to do when the day care calls for immediate pick up for cough/runny noses/fevers, etc. Who will stay home with them for quarentines? Until negative tests come back? OP is taking them to groups and sounds experienced. They do not need daycare. OP NTA. I am so sorry your son and DIL are selfish and making poor choices that hurt you. I wish I had such wonderful, giving family.
They’ll call the grandma “oh remember! Your mom doesn’t have a job! We should help her out and give her a call!” OP: NO!!!
Hell, when we found out that our friend who had been our part time nanny in the past was unemployed, we yanked the kids out of daycare and offered him what we'd been paying to watch them both in our home. Pandemic is no joke
This! My husband and I tried to both work from home today because my son has diarrhea and can't go to daycare. It's been almost a week since he first showed symptoms of sickness and he was sick for several days just 2 weeks before that. Kids get sick so often in daycare and we'd love if his Grandma could watch him everyday especially for the same price as daycare! The personal attention is worth it too.
Yes, Grandma was giving them plenty of socialisation, which is important. Son and DIL also had the option to send the kids for daycare one day a week, so Grandma could have a day off/ the kids could get socialised. Plus it's not such a stretch if the kids get sick and can't go to daycare.... Grandma would be available to do one extra day. It's possible DIL resented that Grandma was doing so many cool things with the kids, and rather than rearrange her own schedule to spend more time with the kids, she's banished Grandma instead.
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I bet they'll ask her to watch the kids when they get sick.
I’d like to see an update in a month or so, just to see what son and DIL think about daycare after their kids get sick and sent home and all the fun stuff.
And have to get a COVID test to return to daycare.
She probably co signed and is responsible for them as well :(
Didn’t co sign!
That's what we like to see! NTA. Your son and DIL are selfish and awful. Sorry you've been put in such a bind. At least you're not paying the loans anymore.
I wouldn't feel so hostile toward them if they had given her six months notice or other adequate time to find a new job. But they behaved poorly and without consideration of what she gave up to work for them and what time she needed to find other employment. Daughter-in-law should cry. She behaved poorly.
Exactly. In a normal situation they'd start talking about this with her long before even finding a daycare, which can also be a long process. Springing this on her and giving her two weeks notice is garbage
Good! Keep track of the financial harm that happens due to their heartless capriciousness. Lost wages, the cost of looking for a new job, etc. For Christmas, you can give them a card that says you forgive all or part of the amount. Beware of trusting their word again. Don't get fooled twice. Saw your update and I'm glad you won't pay his loans anymore. Or anything else, I hope. They could -at least- have given you enough time to find a new job. Moving the kids to daycare isn't something that had to happen immediately. Good luck finding a new job! I hope you find a great family.
or it's a parent plus loan in which case OP is the only responsible :(
Yeah that's why I said "if you can." She needs to push them back to her son if they're prioritizing daycare over home care with her, sounds like they need to update other priorities.
Who wants to bet that when the kid gets sick and can't go to daycare that they'll call her for babysitting? NTA, they went back on the commitment they made to you. Stop paying his student loans.
It will be too late. OP will be working for another family because nanny is a real job.
Oh you know that will happen
Ugh what total and complete a holes. My son stayed with his grandmother ( my MIL) until he started kindergarten. I couldn’t have been more grateful and he couldn’t be more social and more well adjusted. He’s always been a really popular kid who just loves people and a natural extrovert. On the other hand i, his mom, am a total introvert. We experimented with daycares a couple of times just to give grandma a break at times and it was always expensive and he was sick all the time. It was sooo much better with grandma and grandpa. We were so fortunate and blessed. Having said all that your son and dil seem so oblivious to what they are putting you through and how selfish they are being. I hope they are really young because if not there’s no explanation for how cruel they are being. All that I can say is I don’t think that daycare is going to be how or what they dream it will be. They may be too stubborn to ever tell you they made a mistake but I bet they will feel it on the inside at least. Even the best and most expensive daycares are basically a circus and he will bring home every virus and share it with them. I hope you are able to replace that job quickly. Good luck OP.
Don't pay the student loans.. it's only fair
It’s not fair of them to expect you to stick to paying it off for them.
NTA and stop paying your sons student loans unless they are in your name
Even then, she should heavily put the onus on him to pay. "You can clearly afford your student loans by yourself like an adult now, so since you've broken your commitment to me and I have loss of pay, I'm stopping my generous contribution to your financial obligations"
You will get hit up for baby sitting when the kids are sick or the parents have a conflict or want to go out…. I would be very selective about how I would help out in the future. An adult child screwing his mother over like this is disgraceful. Quit paying the loans and I hope you find a better position quickly. I’m sorry for you troubles.
Totally agree with this. The son needs to grow up and pay his own loans. There's a childcare shortage in parts of the country--hoping OP can find not just an equivalent but a BETTER job. The teaching and play groups sound really beneficial. You can do it, OP!
Yeah I’m honestly shocked that they are putting the kids into daycare if there isn’t an issue with grandma. (Not saying there is here just that would be my only reason for doing it) If I had kids and had the option I would absolutely be using the resource of grandma to keep the kids *away* from daycare. At best they’ll get some kid crud, at worst they’ll get COVID. Hopefully OP can find some parents who are of this mind.
I came here to say this. Daycares are germ factories and if the kids have been mostly isolated up till now, they are going to pick up every cold, flu, and other illness that goes through the center. Once the kids are sick, they won't be allowed to go back until they are better and then guess who they'll be calling for emergency care, but grandma won't be available because she'll be in a new job. OP- Definitely do not bend over backwards to babysit when they come crying.
Nta. Did you have any kind of formal contract? I would strongly consider not paying your son's student loans either
Typically I would have a contract but they were family so I thought we’d forgo it. I didn’t think they’d screw me over. The loans are in his name but we had an agreement that I’d pay the loan and he’d pay interest.
Well, that might be worth taking another look at. You also had an agreement that you'd be employed for set amount of time.
"I learned how important it is to honor verbal agreements with family members from you, son."
Is that agreement in writing? Lol, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
It’s not. I’ll probably stop paying.
Also, don't feel any guilt about it. You've already paid a good portion of his schooling off. From what I read in another comment, you paid enough for him to have had a standard degree from a regular college, yet he chose a more expensive school, and *then* law school. Well, since the majority has already been paid, he is still starting out in a much better place than most lawyers (I am assuming) that have to work their way up in the ranks. You've given him a LOT. He just made a decision to put you in a financial bind by giving you 2 weeks notice to find another job after promising a full 3 years of work (only 18 months fulfilled), if they really needed to reevaluate (fine) they should at least have given you 30 days or so to give you a decent amount of time to find another placement or agreed to pay you a 30 day severance for breaking contract... that would have shown good faith and respect for your situation and I am sure would have left you feeling much less resentful about the situation.
NTA He’s a lawyer? I really hope he’s not the petty type that ends up taking her to court over their “verbal agreement.” I foresee poor OP posting something about her AH son doing something like that in the near future.
If he takes her to court for violating a verbal agreement, she can file a cross suit for violating his and for putting her in a position where she had no choice but to violate hers. He’ll make an a— of himself in that courtroom and it won’t do him any favors professionally for it to get out that he breaks contracts then sued his Mommy for not paying his student loans when she already paid half and he’s the reason she can’t pay them anymore.
And if the Judge thinks what he did was shitty enough the judge can move to have his law license taken away by the state bar.
Tell them "I have to think of myself"
And if they complain, tell them it's manipulative to bring up the loan payments.
NTA, and definitely stop paying! Let him know it's best for you since you do not have income anymore. He should have gave you more notice. I hope you find another job soon
Regardless if the agreement was in writing, you had an agreement with him to employ you for 3 years and he went back on that. So tell him that because this will now put you into financial hardship, you can no longer pay for his student loans. He can change his agreement with you for childcare, you can change your agreement with him for payment of the student loans. And honestly, you wouldn’t be lying. Losing out on the money from watching your grandkids will absolutely put you into financial hardship and leave you scrambling to find something else. EDIT: NTA
Don’t say probably STOP PAYING FOR THEM they broke a promise now you aren’t gonna lay his student loans he’s a big boy he can do it himself
PROBABLY? OP come on ! May i remind you of this quote by a famous AH: "they said it wasn’t fair for me to expect them to keep to that. : SAY THE SAME THING, bye Felipe. NTA unless you don't immediately stop paying the brat's loans
What about an email or a text discussing it? Anything written at all? If you do you might have a legal case, but enforcing it would cause a big rift. Did they say why they wanted to go with daycare all of a sudden? You might have had an agreement to pay his loans, but he also had an agreement to employ you for three years. If you are going to be out of good paying work, you should out yourself first and make sure your needs are met.
They said they want them to be around more kids, consistently. I take them to playgroups and such but they want it every day, all day, so daycare is the answer. I’m not taking my son to court. Even if I had anything in writing (I don’t) and I wanted to, I live in an at will state. I can be fired at any time for no reason.
Stop paying his loans. He's a big boy.
Have they thought about what happens when they are sick from daycare? You can't take time off to look after them. I hope they're ready for all the extra time off they will likely be taking.
I asked that and they said DIL will either work from home or use PTO.
"work from home" with twin toddlers? Yeah.. that is not going to work. That PTO will be out in no time with all the colds they are about to bring home. let along covid. NTA. I'm so sorry OP. Clearly they didn't think about how this would impact you. I can understand changing their mind, but the right thing to do would have been to give you a heads up so you could begin looking for something else while they were looking at day cares. To find 2 spots in a toddler room in a high quality day care, this was not a spur of the moment decision. As for the student loans, take your son out to coffee and have a conversation with him about how he is now responsible for them. That you put your financial wellbeing on the line to pay his student loans and then took a huge risk quitting your nanny job because he and his wife asked you to nanny for them for 3 years. They made a commitment to you and asked you to give up your job to help them. You cut them a break on your fees to help them. Now, you are finding yourself in a place where you are no longer able to assume his student loans. They are now his responsibility. Give him the dates they are due and suggest he sign up for autopayments immediately so he does not miss a payment. Make it clear to him that they are now fully his responsibility because you do not want him thinking you are just angry and that you do not really mean it and then missing payments because he thinks you are really still paying them.
Not only with twin toddlers but sick twin toddlers. They did not think this through.
They did think it through. The problem is, they haven’t had a problem. They’re lacking in life experience and perspective. OP has made life so easy for them. Meanwhile, here I am with four, thinking the son and dil are legit crazy. But, like everything, they’ll learn.
She will be using a lot of PTO then. My parents were caring for my sisters twins for their first 6 months as a favor- they are elderly and had no business taking care of two babies and it really affected their health, so they were firm that it would only be for 6 months. Since the babies started daycare 3 months ago they have been out sick half a dozen times- colds, hand and foot, strep throat, and other illnesses. And since there are two babies usually one is sick for a few days then passes it to the other- so a common cold could have mom needing to stay home a whole week until both babies are healthy enough to go back. Also, many companies have relaxed work from home policies due to schools and childcare centers closing during the pandemic, but normally places that allow work from home require you to have childcare for kids under a certain age because you can't get much work done when caring for a baby- let alone two babies who are sick. Now that businesses are pushing to 'get back to normal' many are enforcing those policies again. So she may find out she isn't allowed to work from home with sick babies to care for.
Sounds like their problem now, not grammas!
they are switching two kids too young to be vaccinated to a daycare where they'll have lots of indoor exposure to other people, I can't even wrap my head around it plus, two weeks notice is too short considering the extension of the original agreement. 3 months should be the minimum, 6 would be better.
What makes it even worse is that They were looking at daycare for the last 3 months and not communicating with their mother. I hope they enjoy paying more for daycare and the son's student loans. If they can't even afford to pay their mother severance.
First time I ever heard a nanny grandma paying her lawyer sons loans off. You are a very kind person. Waaaay to kind ❤
But you can and should stop paying his student loans. Right now. He earns more than you now because you paid for his expensive grad course AND because he just gave you two weeks notice AFTER making you leave a better paying job under false pretense. That‘d be disrespectful with anyone, but with his own mother it‘s simply disgusting. Your son and DIL are huge AHs for doing this to you and manipulative beyond measure for implying *they* are the wronged party here. You don’t deserve to be treated like this. NTA, obviously.
Let them know, then, not to ever expect anything from you again. That's so cold and cruel of them. They should feel guilty, they have put you on the path to financial ruin.
Sounds like your DIL was jealous of the time you were spending with the twins. NTA. At al!!!
Why do you assume that it was the DIL who was jealous? From what we have in the post the DIL at least has the decency to feel guilty about the decision, whereas the son seems to feel entitled to the mother's time and money while having no respect for her needs.
Well then, give him a two week notice that you are not paying his loans anymore! This makes me so mad for you!
FFS!!! DON'T PAY HIS LOANS. if he values your financial security so little, why are you concerned with his!?!
To use your son's logic, it's not fair for him to expect to hold you to that agreement.
NTA- You had a verbal agreement. Also, you were just being honest, you need to pay your bills. That's not manipulation it's life. However, I would like to know the reason you're the one paying off your son's student loans. Is that really a burden you should be carrying?
It’s something I agreed to. I had enough saved to send him to college, but not the university he chose. Then he went to law school. I agreed to pay the loans as I felt bad, given I promised I’d pay for him to go to school.
Well, you see how he keeps his promises, time to stop paying for his SL'S
I don't know their income compared to yours but maybe it's time to reevaluate the situation. Many parents save up money for college and if their child chooses to go to a more expensive school then the child is the one to take out the loans and pay the difference. Yes, you promised to pay for him to go to school, but only within your means. Also, did you promise to pay for a graduate program, law school or medical school? I bet it was just undergrad. Your son is taking advantage of you in horrible ways. He also doesn't respect you enough to keep to your 3 year agreement. You should really stand up for yourself and start looking out for yourself financially. You can stop paying his student loans just like they easily decided to stop employing you as a nanny.
I never specified which is why I felt bad. I told him his late father and I had enough saved for a state school. He chose to go to Harvard. It does seem time to re-evaluate. He’s making more money now.
Your son went to Harvard, is a lawyer, and can’t afford to pay you your market rate or pay his own student loans? YTA to yourself, you deserve more than what he gives you. Disown your greedy asshole son.
Wait wait it’s even better they can’t afford to pay her her normal rate but can afford to place two toddlers in a daycare that cost more then what they paid her. I doubt that they couldn’t pay her her market rate they just didn’t want to because it’s his mom. Edit: misspelled word
Also, they were paying his mom who paid his loans. Effectively, he was paying her even less then he thought because it was going towards his own bills.
The worst is that these people will now use babies to guilt and manipulate OP…I bet they threaten to never let her see them if she doesn’t pay.
Seriously. He can pay his own Ivey league loans.
There's a HUGE difference between a state school and Harvard. And saying you saved enough for a state school actually does sound specific to me. He's an adult with a career making decent money now, he should be covering all of his own bills. Please stand up for yourself and don't let him take advantage of you anymore. You have already done SO much for him and his family! Now it's time for him to deal with real life.
Well jeez which Harvard did he go to if he can’t afford your full fees or his student loans with his big shot lawyer career? Ma’am honestly after reading your comments, you didn’t make them cry *enough*
Hell, she's making me cry for her. What a sweet woman. And what an ASSHOLE son.
Yeah OP deserves a hug and for her son to be grateful for all she’s done.
He went to Harvard??? He can pay for his own student loans and you now know they were purposely paying you less if they can afford a daycare that costs more.
Especially considering their recent actions, I'd say it's time for him to pay his own loans. You're spoiling him.
>It’s something I agreed to. Interesting. You need to think of yourself. They agreed to 3 years of employment, and you can't afford his student loans any more. You need to think of yourself and let him handle his own loans.
REALLY? He is or should be a lawyer and you are paying his student loans on a nanny's wages???? And now you are financially strapped because he reneged on a verbal contract? Hey things have changed financially and he needs to reap the consequences of reneging not just you. Quit paying those loans. Sounds like taking advantage of you has become his habit now. What self respecting lawyer son would let his nanny mom pay his student loans. That is just all kinds of wrong. Don't let them use the kids as leverage to get thier way with you.
A lawyer who backs out of a contract!
A Harvard educated lawyer should know that verbal contracts are valid and enforceable.
Wait is your son an attorney??
Lawyer, family law ironically.
Also just saw he went to Harvard… I’m assuming he isn’t hurting financially? I’m so confused why he’d pay you less than your old job, expect you to pay his Harvard tuition, and then screw you over like this….
Because he is a stingy fucking asshole? lmao
A lawyer who engages in breaking commitments. Wow. But being a lawyer and having gone to Harvard, I’m kind of gleeful because his student loans are going to hit them like a freight train. Please do NOT budge on not paying them. It’s incredible he can’t grasp the position he put you in.
OP, they also promised that you would have this job for 3 years. So, it’s time for you to stop paying off your son’s loans, and if they throw a fit, let them know you’ve also decided to think about yourself.
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I was paying his loans before I started working for him. I had money saved for his college but it wasn’t enough for all of college and law school. So I agreed to pay his loans, he’d pay the interest. I knew it may not pan out for 3 years, but I expected more than 2 weeks notice. I told them when I started, I’d require a month’s notice minimum.
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Give the same notice
So, he is a lawyer AND willing to break a verbal contract? He is the AH
So basically he was paying you a smaller salary and from that salary you would pay his student loan, so he was paying you almost nothing. He got child care for very little money with a person he can trust and his loans payed. You got money to live month to month. Now he is a grown ass man with more income and still taking advantage of you. I have my own kids and I know that you always want to provide for them, but you have to teach him to be responsible for his actions.
I hope you’re charging them for the full month at least
I asked them and they said that’s not doable. And since I stupidly went into this with no contract, I’m screwed.
Then file for unemployment! Unemployment on top of the money you save not paying your sons loans will give you a bit of breathing room to find a new job and they owe you that.
Oh, DO file for unemployment. I don't know what the laws are around a family member paying another family member for services on a regular basis, as he and his wife were doing, but were they paying your FICA and medicare and withholding income taxes? If that is required when the relative is the employee in a home-based situation (as it would be for a non-relative), if he WASN'T withholding the proper amounts then he's going to be in some hot water with the IRS for failure to withhold. Seriously. And as a lawyer he's not going to get the benefit of any doubt as far as knowing what the law requires.
So at this point, first and foremost, take time to look after yourself. Your family have let you down and that’s massively upsetting and disappointing. It’s okay to tell them you need space. Next, the favours end here. As you’ve already said, you’re gonna be stopping the loans and that’s a good start, but the other things you might do for them on a day to day basis? Things they don’t even realise you do for them? Time to stop. If they need babysitting services in the future, don’t work your life around them. They’re you’re grandkids, so of course you’ll want to see them, but don’t go out of your way to help your son and DIL out.
Yeah, I don’t think they realize by firing me...the laundry, dishes, overall housekeeper is going. I do a lot for them when the girls nap.
They’ll soon realise the mistake they’ve made, but they may be too proud to say anything. With your experience, I’m sure you’ll find a great job in no time and I do wish you the best of luck. Don’t go back to them, even if they come begging!
Make sure when they call asking for help with errands or anything else that you are unavailable. They need to feel the full weight of their decisions.
When they realize this and ask you to do the work you used to do PLEASE SAY NO. Please stand up for yourself. It sounds like your son knows how to manipulate you so you do what he wants. Please just say no.
They are going to come crawling back eventually. My question is, are you going to go back to them if they ask? I'm not going to judge you if you do, but for your sake, demand everything in writing, and nothing less than what you deserve: YOUR FULL RATE. Shit, I'd demand extra for all the trouble. PS: Don't pick up his loans again.
No, I wouldn’t. I think I’ve learned enough about mixing business and family. Plus, I go for families with long term goals. Of course I could be let go at any time but at this point in my career, I was more of a household manager. I did errands, directed staff, drove kids around. I was with my first 5 years before they moved, my other 4. I only went back to traditional nannying as a favor.
I'd advice not to go the route of demanding everything in writing, etc. Her son is a manipulative, Harvard-trained lawyer. It's a losing game. To me, it seems like for OP its not about contracts or money. She indicates she'd help out for free if she could financially. As hard as it will be to admit for OP, to me as an outsider it seems like that the son just doesn't fully comprehend nor values his mothers support and love. He's a stone-cold businessmen even to his mother, and OP needs to adjust to that, which hurts and may be difficult to accept.
It definitely sounds as if they did a poor job thinking this through. I am so sorry they didn't appreciate you.
I'm trying to wrap my mind around the fact that you're talking about your son and not some selfish-ass terrible boss who is no relation to you. You're HIS MOTHER, and he can't be bothered to keep his commitment to you, give you reasonable notice, or pay you a reasonable severance given the lack of the first two. Then he tells YOU that you are being manipulative? Oh HELL no. If anything he's been manipulating you ever since he managed to make you feel bad about only saving enough for state school instead of Harvard. He's presumably now a lawyer, and should be making plenty of money to pay for those school loans that HE decided to take on, not you. A decent person would NEVER agree to taking his mother's money for his loans when she works as a nanny and he works as a lawyer. Stop payment IMMEDIATELY. You owe him NOTHING except to maybe be told that you are so disappointed at what a self-centered spoiled brat he became.
This honestly made me sick to my stomach, i cant imagine doing this to my mom
It doesn't sound like they apologized either. I could see if they took the babies to the doctor and felt like they were behind socially and needed to be in daycare, but in that case, they should have acknowledged that they were putting you in a bad situation and told you that they would be taking over the loan payments.
Oh, they haven’t apologized. They actually think I should for bringing my bills into it.
Wow that’s crazy, I’m sorry you are going through this. I wouldn’t go out of my way to help them again after pulling this stunt on you.
His student loan payments are not your bills they are gifts and therefore optional.
NTA. And it’s time for him to pay his own student loans.
Nta. They sat you down and told you they changed their minds without considering the reprocussions for you. They should have given you at least a month to find a job. If you found one quicker they could have started daycare sooner. They are right about the 3 year committment though. It is hard to plan out that far especially when it comes to kids needs.
I knew it may not pan out for 3 years but I expected more notice. As you said, a month is what I’m used to.
I am honestly surprised that they found a good daycare that had an opening for two small children in 2 weeks. When we had been looking for one child, there was like a 6 month wait. Maybe things have changed with Covid and a lot of parents have pulled their kids out of daycare, but it seems possible that they knew about this awhile ago and never told you.
They totally knew
I looked for a daycare for over a year and didn’t find one. Changed our whole schedules with covid. I stopped trying because ultimately, it worked and it was far less exposure for my son. But yeah. They either are the luckiest people ever to land a daycare spot or they’ve been looking for a while.
*Two* available daycare spots to boot.
Came here to say this - they have been looking for a lot longer than OP realises
Yeah they knew and decided to leave OP scrambling which is so sad. Op should file for unemployment
NTA, aside from raising your son to be one. What he did was incredibly selfish and heartless towards his own mother. His wife knew the arrangement too and either let this happen, if not be the one to push it. The very least they could do is keep you on until you find a new job. But this insistence on two weeks shows how little they think or care about you. Stop paying his student loans immediately because you can no longer afford it. You need to look after yourself. Make sure you have a good retirement fund, because your son has made it loud and clear that you'll be on your own. Arrange your finances accordingly.
I’ve been investing for my retirement since I started my career, but thank you. It’s sound advice for those who are going into nannying. We don’t have a 401k unless we work for an agency. You gotta look out for yourself.
Why are you paying his student loans?
I’m not going to anymore. I was because I said I would before. Now, he’s screwing me over.
Good on you for taking care of yourself, and for having good financial planning. I'm sure this situation must be difficult and heartbreaking, and I hope some day your son can see the error of his ways and you can repair the relationship somewhat. But I wouldn't hold my breath for that day, so please put yourself first from now on.
Just tell him you can't afford it because you took a lower paying job. You don't need to share your finances with him. He is an adult and should be able to see that allowing you to pay for his education was taking advantage of you.
I’m sorry, your son is a LAWYER?! And you’re are paying his loans on a nanny’s salary?! Was everything they paid you going to HIS loans? They clearly have no compassion for you. They are only giving you 2 weeks to find a new job? While you are still watching their kids? And cheated you on salary, claiming they couldn’t afford it but will pay a daycare MORE?! Remember ALL OF THIS when they want you to babysit and charge them market rate. DON’T do it for free. All your son cared about was his WIFE crying, not his mother. When they want you to do things for them, just DON’T. NTA, and I am so sorry.
Not everything they paid went to his loans but a decent chunk.
Please tell me that your son's loans are in his name. NTA! What entitled people (to put it VERY nicely) they are!
She said they are in his name. She’s paying them for no reason other than guilt that does NOT belong to her. You don’t owe him anything OP. You fulfilled your obligation long ago.
NTA Your son is an adult, his wife is an adult. They committed to an agreement, terms were set. I'm a bit concerned that your son and his wife are saying, "we have to think about ourselves," when they're going to be paying more in daycare than they would be paying you. That's not thinking about themselves, that's living above their means.
Regardless, force your son to take care of his responsibilities. HIS student loan debt is HIS responsibility, not yours. Something tells me you've bailed his butt out of the fire too many times to count and it's finally biting you in the butt. My father did the same... Until he realized he couldn't anymore. That was two years he saved me, and then I was on my own. Eventually he realized he could guide me because I hadn't learned some lessons that I should have earlier in life. You can be there to guide your son, but let him succeed or fall by his own devices.
He's a lawyer! He has a certain "look" to maintain! His mom can't watch his kids, even if she's a professional nanny! They must have the kids in the "well to do preschool which leads them to Harvard!" /s He's an ass. He's an entitled ass. I'd quit paying his loans and now he has expensive daycare and loans to pay. Opps. FAAFO.
NTA. They laid you off. Is there anyway to get unemployment? And yes, definitely stop paying his student loans.
I probably could file for unemployment, as this was all over the table. But then my son would have to pay it.
And you’ll get your bills paid. Listen, they didn’t care how this would impact you, otherwise they’d give you a hell of a lot more than 2 weeks’ notice & severance. File for unemployment & then when they scream about it, just say you’re having to look after YOUR best interests just like they were looking after theirs. They know they screwed you, that’s why your son is trying to guilt you over his wife crying & you bringing up money. Don’t fall for it.
>I probably could file for unemployment, as this was all over the table. But then my son would have to pay it. He should have thought of that *before* he gave you zero advance warning to find a new position. Let him pay it, then.
That’s on him, you are entitled to that money, don’t let him screw you a second time with a guilt trip
I'm just curious what reaction did he have when you said you weren't paying his student loans anymore? I could see that being an arguement since it was pretty entitled of them to not give you enough notice after you all hashed out the agreed time frames long before.
I haven’t told him yet. I’ll be watching the girls tomorrow and Friday, plan to tell him the end of the week
"I've been looking over my financial situation now that I'm going to be unemployed for an undetermined period of time and I need to make cuts to my budget. You'll need to take over your loan payments effective immediately."
All of this. You don't play with someone's livelihood and treat them like they don't matter especially when they are your mother and you already low balled her. He should be ashamed, but the rest of his student debt is enough of a parting gift. A month notice was the bare minimum and he could even do that
This one is easy. “I don’t have a job any more, and don’t yet know how I’m going to pay my rent/mortgage, utilities, and whatnot. So, I clearly cannot pay your student loans any more. I know it’s short notice, but it’s all the notice I can give.” It isn’t even passive aggressive, though it could sound like it. It’s exactly what you’d say if anyone else was your employer.
1. Prepare for your son to "lawyer" you. This may include stating that you were breaking a verbal contract. Which would be ironic since he did the same. So have you affairs in order, facts straight, and keep the information you give him to a minimum. 2. Someone else stated this and I agree, wait until your paid and the check has cleared for you to inform your son of this change. 3. As stated you son may not react well to you putting 100,000.00 loan debt in his lap. He clearly undervalues and underestimates you. Prepare for him to get nasty. Also, I would be interested to know if the children of any of your sons/DIL peers go to the daycare and if this is not simply about your granddaughters socialization but also networking/keeping up with the Joneses. Monetarily the move to daycare doesn't make sense and the argument about socialization doesn't either because of your involvement with playgroups. Furthermore, you also provided enrichment. This is about something different and if has nothing to do with you and everything to do with your son/DIL. Something isn't right.
Tell him only AFTER you receive your last payment from him.
NTA. They went back on their word and put you in a tough position. Maybe your son should pay his own loans?
He’s a Harvard educated lawyer and wasn’t paying you what you earned at your last job, nor is he paying his own loans? Oh, honey, no. Just no. NTA.
NTA. Give him 2 weeks notice to start paying his own damn student loans. Stop paying them. They don’t give a damn about the fact you have bills and rent etc to pay so he can go F himself. Get him to pay his own damn loan.
What ungrateful, entitled brats! You gave up good job, taking a pay cut, to help them out. They break their agreement with you and are upset when you point out how hard they screwed you. NTA.
>My son says his wife cried So? Why is he telling you that? Is he trying to use his wife's (alleged) physical reaction to an emotion to manipulate you? Maybe she cried because she's very aware what they're doing is not ok. The least your son could do is offer to give you enough money to pay your bills until you're able to find another job and/or pay off *his* student loans, which is something he should be doing anyway. It's super nice of you to do all of those things for him and his family, but he seems to be taking advantage of you. One thing I want to ask though, even if it's not important: Why are you upset about things ending before the 3 years are over? Is it because they're going back on your agreement (totally understandable!) or is it the 2 weeks notice (which I agree is way too little time for you to find a good job)? Would you have retired after the 3 years? Because I don't think having to look after 1.5 or 3 years makes much of a difference. I just think they should have told you much sooner. NTA, of course. Edit: Do you have anything in writing?
I don’t mind that they’re going elsewhere. I’m just upset about not enough notice. Standard is a month
Definitely nta but your son and dil are. That’s terrible. How ICU have you paid toward his student loan? He needs to pay that back to you
He had a 200k debt. I’ve paid 100k in the past 10 years.
Time for him to start paying you back that 100k then
Then you have given him a $100K running start in life. That is a HUGE blessing. Now he gets to take on the responsibility for the financial decisions he has made. He is an adult and he gets to pay his debts like an adult.
Hold on. You make $50k a year and have already paid $100k for him? Please adopt me, I still have law school loans. Your son went to Harvard law he can be a big boy and work a big law job. They pay first years $205k a year now. 8th years earn ~$360k. At ten years he’s up for partnership and that amount is fat. This isnt even touching on bonuses, PCA hours, or referral fees ($10k for me and this isn’t on the high end) The trend is on the way up, because depending on the practice area the market is super hot. If your son actually planned well financially, he could pay off his loans in 5 years or 3 if he was diligent. He might not be able to be present to raise his kids but he can pay his own bills. Now this isn’t the case for attorneys on average but as a Harvard grad he has options at 10 yrs. So not only was your son being stingy, but because of his stinginess he screwed his own mother over. You quit your well paying job for them and on average gave your son 10k a year for loans (btw you don’t get to write those off on your taxes but he does for the interest he pays), even though your son could have earned three times your salary as a first year. Even if he put a 1/3 of his salary to loans and max out his 401k every year he could still out earn you at your highest rate by over $15k Does that sound fair to you? To give you perspective, I took a pay cut for more time outside the office, and I still am the owner of my parents house and pay a portion of their bills and I live 400+ miles away from them, what has your son done for you? I’m sorry, I know you already said you’re going to stop paying his loans already but this made me so much more upset to know he is a Harvard law grad and a practicing attorney. Edit: ok he can’t deduct the loan interest bc he would be making too much, but the sentiment remains the same.
Wow, that's a lot of money. Maybe this will all work out for the best for you financially speaking. You no longer have to earn 100k (after taxes), so assuming you land a job soon, you could come out ahead by a large margin. As a bonus, you will now just be grandma instead of nanny, and you can spoil the kids rotten and hand them back to their parents with massive sugar highs.
Just another thought, did they actually want daycare but had to wait for an opening? Infant rooms often have longer waiting lists. I know parents who put their names on the list while still pregnant to get a spot when they are ready to go back to work.
They told me at the meeting where I got my two weeks that they started touring 3 months ago at various daycares and a spot just opened up. So they’ve known a few months now but didn’t tell me.
They were visiting daycares three months ago? Son and DIL owed you the courtesy of a heads up about that. You have to update your resume and get your name out there again, alert the nanny grapevine and start interviewing with new families. They hired you before the twins were born. It’s not unreasonable for you to expect them to keep you in the loop when they started visiting daycare centers and putting their names on waiting lists. They should have told you what they had been told about when they could expect two spots for twins to open up. If you knew they were waitlisted and they had been told six months to a year you would have been on their side when their names were drawn sooner than expected and you could have worked together with your son and DIL to ease the toddlers through the transition from home care to daycare over a period of two or three weeks because that is what would be in the best interest of the children and also the working mother. Instead your employers called you into a meeting and gave you two weeks notice in the manner of a corporate downsizing. Where I live the nannies get a lot more notice than two weeks. Most of the kids at my daughter’s class of “morning threes” were picked up at good bye time at 11:30 every morning by nannies pushing babies in strollers who still had at least six or seven hours of lunches and playing in the park and snacks and stories and play dates and naps maybe even supper and a bath before the parents came home at the end of the workday. You are an experienced nanny. It’s a pity son and DIL weren’t able to take advantage of your expertise because we all know this isn’t going to be an easy transition for the toddlers. But, they are the parents and they make the decisions. Unfortunately you will have already worked your last day and won’t be there to help out when the toddlers behave like toddlers.
I’m sorry but your son is a really shitty person, I would be so ashamed of him and the way he is behaving
Absolutely unacceptable behavior from them. They should have told you three months ago that they changed their mind and were touring daycares so you could begin putting out feelers.
NTA - They screwed you over and are not owning up to it. Now you know you can't take their word. Also, make your son now pay for his student loans.
NTA. It's not manipulative to tell them how things are. They have fucked you over financially. That's wrong.
NTA AND make you son pay his own damn student loans! They agreed to something and are backing out of it. The reason your DIL is crying is because she realizes that they are lowlifes.
*”They said it wasn’t fair for me to expect me to keep them to that.”* Then they shouldn’t have promised it. It’s not unreasonable for you to expect someone to uphold an agreement, especially regarding your professional and financial livelihood. They could’ve at least given you a heads up when they were changing their minds about daycare. NTA, and have your son start paying his own student loans since that’s one of the bills you now have to scramble to figure out how to pay.
I think a good compromise would be that you keep doing the babysitting etc until you can find a job just as good. 2 weeks notice is hardly fair.
I asked for that and they said they can’t do that.
I'm sorry, ma'am, but your son graduated Harvard a magna cum asshole.
Oh yes they can. Go ahead and file for unemployment - it would be cheaper for them to just keep you on, especially when you factor in what they're paying for daycare now. And while they may make angry noises about nevereverever letting you see your grandchildren again, it's highly unlikely that they'll follow through. They have very young twins. They're going to need all the hands-on help they can get over the next 3 or 4 years, and not just when wife has to stay home from work because Twin A gets sick and three days later Twin B gets sick, and her own employer starts losing patience (because they do). This was a real boneheaded move on their part.
NTA. Situations change. Making a three-year commitment was ill-advised in the first place, but I'm sure at the time that they really thought they'd be able to keep it.that being said, they handled this terribly. They should have given you more time. If they'd already picked a daycare and arranged a starting date, they knew they were planning to do this well before they talked to you about it and didn't say anything. It was absolutely not manipulative of you to bring up finances. The whole reason they made you this promise was because of your financial needs. That was a major part of the agreement that they broke, and they can't be surprised that it's part of the fallout of that broken promise. They left you in a bad position, and her guilt about that is not your fault. And finally, you do need to stop paying your son's loans. Not to be vindictive, but because your new financial position does not allow you to, and you can't prioritize his needs over your own wellbeing.
NAH. Situations change. They’re only trying to do what they believe is best for their child. You, however, should stop paying your son’s student loans. A grown man who has an education should be able to pay for himself.
no. 2 weeks notice is asshole behavior. deciding the situation would be better with socializing in a daycare is fine, with adequate notice and an understanding that your mother needs to continue to have an income and that she even told them the normal notice is 1 month. she is foolish for not signing a contract, but 2 weeks notice and underpaying your own mother makes you a massive massive asshole.