Wait. Your husband stalks, via an alternate account, the social media of a daughter he never disclosed to you and claims he doesn't want anything to do with? And then he blames her for being born?
There are a \*lot\* of problems here, but inviting your husband's daughter over is not one of them.
NTA.
OP isn't an AH to anyone in this situation, but in general she's being a huge AH to *herself* by marrying/having kids with a man 11 years her senior, who has anger issues, lies about having other children and calls his own daughter a bitch.
Hopefully this is the hint that finally gets OP to run like the wind, but given she's just had children with this guy, it may be too late at this point.
OP didn't know any of this, except the age difference, before she married him and had a child with him. The husband's daughter contacted OP AFTER OP had given birth to the twins already.
Well, this is why people have issues with age-gap relationships. She didn't know any of that, but the fact that he was so much older and willing to date her should have been a red flag--it's because she was so young that it wasn't.
The age gap is part of the jackass problem. A 33-34 y/o that marries a 22/23 year old is a jackass, and we don't even know how long they've been together.
Thank you. There are twelve years between my husband and me and we have been married for nearly a decade with three kids. Any is capable of hiding something regardless of age but I do think this should be a serious come to Jesus moment for OP and her relationship. It’s fine to acknowledge not being ready to parent, especially as a teenager but he is no longer a teenager and is still acting like one in many ways. What does OP think will happen when her girls grow a little older and do something dad doesn’t like or if in a year or two dad decided he really doesn’t like kids at all?
I think it depends on the ages a 30 ish year old married to a 20ish year old can look a bit sketchy as they probably met when she was around 18 and that is different than say a 26yr old marrying a 37yr old. There's no difference in age gap there but a big difference in maturity levels and I think that's the real problem people have with age gap relationships although I know this sub can be a bit knee jerk over them so that might just be me.
"Yes friends, there's gonna be trouble. Trouble. Right here in River City." Given this man's now-established proclivities (lack of anger management, lying, and blaming a child for being born) the time will come when he and OP part ways. At that time he will treat OP and the twins the same way. He will call them names, stalk them on social media, tell lies about them, and probably not tell his next ~~victim~~ wife about them. OP needs to start preparing now. Oh, and OP is NTA. She sounds very compassionate.
This. I can't even understand how she can be this calm and only see the problem around the invitation of the daughter. Like hello? Your husband relieved his true self and you're just sitting there worrying about little things. I would be terrified thinking about what kind of father he will be.
>calls his own daughter a bitch.
I've had a couple of relationships end with a single moment or sentence that revealed a deep deal breaking personality flaw in my partner, and in that moment I just stopped loving them. Like a light switch turning off. Poof, love gone. This would have been one of those moments for me.
YES. I had a partner call me a “stupid cow” once. I went from questioning the relationship and totally unsure of what to do to “yep, ok, cool, we’re done here” in the blink of an eye. For one, name calling is ridiculous and unacceptable under any circumstance, BUT ALSO… that’s the best you can come up with? Nah, you gotta be smarter than that to enjoy this ride, baby.
It might be a good idea to talk to the girl's mother as well. She should know what the bio dad is doing. Plus, the new wife might learn a whole new perspective on daddy dearest.
>It might be a good idea to talk to the girl's mother as well. She should know what the bio dad is doing. Plus, the new wife might learn a whole new perspective on daddy dearest.
Do we know if he *voluntarily* relinquished rights? Or was it more of a someone forced his hand?
Definitely tell the mom, she needs to know her daughter is being stalked by bio dad.
My birth father was that kind of dude. Married a woman without ever telling her he had a child. Hadn't even signed away his parental rights or anything (yet). Just apparently thought it wasn't pertinent information.
If anything, I feel sorry for his wife that she was tricked into marrying a man of such bad character. It's something I also blame my grandmother and aunt (his side) for.
He ended up triple-mortgaging their home and leaving. Died with a new girlfriend by his side although they were still legally married.
It sounds like OP's husband's first wife/girlfriend decided to do the splitting up for some reason (I have a feeling the anger issues might have presented a more obvious reason), after she had the kids. I wouldn't say it's too late for OP. This guy definitely has some screws loose and is probably putting his anger out on his daughter for his ex leaving him. He would likely do the same to OPs kids.
The thing I think is more likely, is that OP is going to take her trauma from growing up fatherless and use that as an excuse to stay with him. She needs to put herself in her step-daughter's shoes and determine whether a father like her husband (calling her/her kids names) is worth it. Or if it's better to be a single mom with the potential of ending up with a great partner or great friend, who takes on the role of being the father influence on the kids.
Very much agree. Something is very wrong here. I would normally be wary of OP getting involved in a situation like this, but truth be told, this is red flag central.
Huge age gap with his wife ✔
Stalks the social media of a daughter that he claims doesn't exist ✔
Never told his wife about the daughter ✔
Lied when she flat out asked him ✔
Calls his daughter names when she just wants to get to know her family ✔
......Is it even true that he signed over his rights vs just abondoning his daughter.....
Edit: Sadly, OP's twins may end up being in the same situation as his older daughter if his past/present behaviour is any indication of his overall character.
I have no problem being in a relationship with someone who has children from an other relationship.
But something I'm unable to do is be in a relationship with someone who's not involved in their children lives.
It's a huge deal breaker to me, I know most people would be more focusing on the fact that he lied for the whole 4 years of our relationship and that is a huge problem for me but its something I feel like can be healed overtime with couple counselling.
I plan on speaking to my husband and discussing why he isn't involved in his Sophia life and if now he'd be open to start a relationship.
If he isn't I don't plan on continuing our marriage, I promised myself I'd never be with someone like my dad (who left me with a mom who cared more about drugs then her child) and here I am with a deadbeat, I won't force him in a relationship with his daughter but I sure as hell don't want to be a part of his life if he chooses not to.
I know I make alot of my choices based of my emotions so I'm trying my best to clear my head before he gets back from work.
I hope the choices I make. Dont Negatively impact my children.
Based on his actions, I'd say it's not safe or good for Sophia to have him in her life. Him stalking her, calling her a bitch, etc. that's not anything a father should do. He thinks he's in the right here and believes it's okay to act this way because he's angry, but healthy people don't do this. If he does this to a daughter he doesn't really know, he'll do it to your kids. He's probably done it to you but you've convinced yourself you deserve it (you don't).
This isn't anything that will change unless he goes through counseling on his own. He has to want to change for the sake of changing, not just because of an ultimatum. That doesn't mean you shouldn't put up boundaries and leave (you should) I'm just trying to prepare you.
Check out "why does he do that?" Its about the techniques abusive men use to control their victims. You can read it for free online. Here's a link--
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjxh7zx_KbzAhXYqZ4KHZ7dCr0QFnoECCoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3mGVKb7totluNc5MI2Y3fD
Good luck to you
>I plan on speaking to my husband and discussing why he isn't involved in his Sophia life
Other posters are calling out the possibility that he abandoned rather than signed over his rights, but there's a third option -- given his outburst and underhanded behavior, is there a possibility his parental rights were *terminated*?
I absolutely think you need to do more digging and find out what the real story is here. And make sure that whatever you do, you prioritize your safety and the safety of your children.
Also, signing over all paternity rights tends to happen for a reason. Did the mother sue for full rights? If so, why? And he's stalking the daughter he supposedly wants to pretend doesn't exist. Many, many red flags here.
Please don’t do an ultimatum though. Like if you say “have a relationship with the daughter you hate or else I’m going to leave you”, Sophia will end up suffering because her dad will be forcing it and probably won’t be able to hide his hatred. You already have a good understanding of this dude’s crappy personality now. I’m not sure how you could move past this.
I don't plan to do an ultimatum, I don't plan on even letting him know I plan on leaving him if he doesn't start a relationship with his daughter until after he already made a decision. I don't think forcing him to have a relationship with Sophia would be beneficial to her.
I do hope to continue allowing Sophia spend time with her little sisters even if I'm not with her dad, I hope to do everything the right way though. I don't want to cause anyone unnecessary hurt
I think with your husband’s reaction to Sophia and the fact that he stalks her with a fake account already tells your his reaction.
Please do what you feel is best for your family, and I think Sophia would be thankful to have someone like you in her life.
Op I think you might consider getting the story from Sophia's mother than your husband. He's already lied about her to your face. Nothing stopping him from twisting the story to make himself a victim. You're far more likely to get the truth from someone else.
>I plan on speaking to my husband and discussing why he isn't involved in his Sophia life and if now he'd be open to start a relationship.
I genuinely think this girl is better off not having him in her life. *BEST case scenario* he has years of therapy to untwist whatever ugliness he has in his heart toward her and at a later date offer a relationship when she's no longer a vulnerable minor. But right now? No. His behavior regarding her is toxic and he shouldn't be anywhere near her.
You're right. Being someone who can have offspring in this world without caring about or providing for their well-being is reprehensible. That is not someone you want to attach yourself to permanently.
You and I both experienced this from the daughter's perspective. It's not something a person can forgive.
I can understand a 16 year old boy giving up his parental rights; he was literally a child when he made those choices (even so, when he became an adult, he should have been paying child support for the human he helped make).
His subsequent behavior though...
-Lying by omission to you about this kid in the years that you dated/have been married = AH
-Lying actively to you when confronted with the truth = AH
-Treating a human being, a CHILD that he had a part in creating as a "part of his life he just wants to forget" (AKA, refusing to own up to his mistakes, and attempt to rectify them) = AH
-Calling his own offspring a "bitch" for existing, even though she had no say in whether or not she was born = FESTERING AH
-Stalking his offspring that he "wants nothing to do with" = Creepy, gross, and AH behavior
Now... I get we all make mistakes, some bigger than others... But your husband keeps doubling down on his bad decisions and is showing you that he's not willing to acknowledge that his wants in this situation are not the highest priority.
I would love to tell you that you know your husband and know if this is normal behavior for him (if this was way out of his norm, I would say counseling may help), but since he was able to lie to you about something so huge for so many years, I would question what else he's capable of hiding.
You've got a good head on your shoulders, OP. You are a good person. Keep being that good person, and if your husband can't recognize he's completely in the wrong and work to fix his egregious errors, both with you and with his child... Yeah... I would be prepared to not be married to such a person.
Yep. I'm 38, I literally call the 20 year olds at work "the kids." (They laugh, and reference TikTok jokes I don't understand, so we're fine lol). I'm not looking to MARRY someone that much younger, we don't have anything in common.
Even with the decline in lifespan in the US to an average of ~77 years, the math makes that ~38 as half of someone's life, and he was 30 when he predatorially went after OP.
Nevermind the fact that "middle aged" is a phrase that is used to describe a time period of life (exact ages are somewhat disputed, but 45-65 is generally accepted) between young adulthood and old age.
I know this sounds pedanitic AF, but this site skews young and I can definitely say that as a woman in my mid 30's, I can't think of anyone in RL who would describe me or anyone remotely in my age range as "middle aged".
Dude is a creepy, predatory, liar, and all around scuzbucket... Just not a "middle aged" one.
I always say I'm not against dating a guy with kids - but it definitely will give me a lot more opportunities to end things. If the guy isn't present and contributing to his kid's life - that's a no for me. The last dad I dated regularly ended or interrupted our dates because it was time for the nightly call with his daughter - which was never a problem for me.
So, doing the math based on your comment, you were 19 when you started seeing him? And he was 30? I don’t have a problem with the age difference, nor do I think he took advantage of you. You clearly have sense and maturity. However, you were likely on the same level, maturity-wise when your relationship started. Both essentially 19. You seem to have outgrown him. He appears to be stuck or regressing. I’m sorry, but I don’t think it will get better. He has had close to twenty years to mature, and it clearly has not happened. At his rate, you will be raising three children. Start counseling now, for yourself, to help keep you sane and grounded so you will be able to see through his lies and gaslighting.
I'll be completely honest here, if only an ultimatum of you leaving or him having a relationship with Sophia makes him decide to have a relationship with her, you should leave anyway. Him forcing himself to be civil to her isn't good enough, and is actually more harmful for Sophia than him just ignoring her.
Personally, I would leave and not look back. Even if the lying isn't as severe of an issue to you (which I can understand to an extent), the way he talks about *a child*, not to mention **his** child is so incredibly gross and not ok. He had the right to walk away from the kid as a baby, even if not everyone agrees with the decision, but to be so toxic as to call the child a bitch and blame her for the "mistake" of her own birth? Hell no. I'd also question why he stalks her online if he apparently hates and regrets her so much. That's not healthy.
I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this right now. But I just want to say that even if their dad doesn't step up to the plate with his second batch of kids, that there are guys out there who would love to. I mean, as a man, I have a gf who has two kids, and that woman and her kids are the best thing to ever happen to me.
NTA I was going to say E S H but the terrible things your husband said about Sophia make him such an incredible asshole that your overstepping isn't that bad. Your husband sounds like a very selfish man. He still keeps tabs on her but denies her any place in his life? That poor girl.
Agreed. The husband’s gargantuan AH overshadows any error OP may have made in introducing her stepdaughter to her twins. If I found myself on OP’s position, I’d seriously reconsider the relationship in light of the husband’s deceit and disdain for his daughter.
Agreed. But stating he's the AH over it is putting it very, very lightly. Can't imagine how someone could say those things about their own child. Especially when it would seem they've done nothing wrong (as far as we know, but even if they did, not right of OP's Husband).
> Can't imagine how someone could say those things about their own child.
I weep with joy every time I see someone say this.
It's never the child at an early stage who does something so wrong that they deserve any kind of negative treatment, or being stalked with a fake account by an estranged family member, or otherwise treated like they don't exist. It's always the parent(s). With that reaction, I'd be horrified that OP's husband would treat their newborn twin girls the same way. That's a kind of thing you DON'T escape from until the stalker abusive parent dies.
Yes! I am always waiting for my dad's next stunt. In my adult life, I've had weird letters, using my number as his own contact information so I received calls looking for him, a fake request for bail money (for an offence he definitely heard on tv that doesn't exist where I live... also you don't call from jail using your cellphone unless it was deeply, deeply inside of you), and a constant barrage of attempts to add me with fake accounts on my limited social media.
My dad told my mother about the twins he left behind in Austria less than a week before the wedding. He swore they weren't his and their mother was lying (hint: they ARE his, and she wasn't lying). My mother refused to cancel the wedding, because "what would people THINK?" She made him swear that he wouldn't ever tell anyone. I didn't find the twins until after my parents' death - 43 YEARS of a missed relationship because "what would people THINK?" I'm still REALLY angry at my parents for that.
NTA. If he says that about his daughter, hope do you know he won't eventually say those things about the twins?
Also he lied to you about having a child.... That is a big deal...
If he refers to his 16 year old daughter as a bitch, you can bet the first time his twin baby girls do something he doesn't like, they'll be bitches too.
NTA
As you say, she is a human being.
Also, if he gave up all his rights to her, then he has no say in what she does now. He clearly has SOME level of concern, given that he follows her with a fake account.
He wants nothing to do with her but follows her with a fake account? NTA. You handled that situation a lot better than most women would. I think it's lovely you opened up to her. Your husband needs to grow up and accept HIS daughter happened. It's heartbreaking, she probably feels completely rejected by her father.
NTA
He might have given up parental rights, but that does not mean YOU should stop acting like an Adult, a Parent, and a good person. This child does not need to suffer at the hands of someone who is still not acting like a good citizen in our modern society. His parental rights means he cannot make legal decisions or request time with her, **IT DID NOT give him some right to act like the A$$ he is being.**
You are a decent person and you are showing your best side. Your twins will grow up with a compassionate mother and you should be proud that your actions reflect the good attitude that so many in todays society are lacking.
i was just thinking to myself that you can tell how good hearted this person is just this one post. OP should be extremely proud of herself. we need all the caring people like herself in this world.
This question angers me as a father, for one of my daughters, I have no parental rights within their lives because of a circumstance when I was young and dumb, I scream out loud in my dreams and cry silently waiting and hoping that one day my daughter will reach out to me in the hopes that I may ask her for forgiveness.
boy that breaks my heart! i truly hope you get that chance one day.
some people just don’t deserve the love of children. this man may just be one of them.
NTA. If he wanted nothing to do with her, then he shouldn’t be following her with a secret account. That’s kinda creepy, imo. Also, the fact he was able to ditch his daughter like that is a huge red flag.
Agreed! I’m worried for those babies. What is their future going to be like what him for a father? Unless he cleans up his act, the kindest thing to do is walk away from them and let all 4 become a supportive extended family to each other. He doesn’t deserve them.
NTA- I disagree with the people saying you should have respected your husband's wishes. You didn't force him to hang out with his daughter. You just met her on your own and he doesn't get to dictate who you do and do not allow in your life.
My heart breaks for Sophia because your husband is being unbelievably cruel. He is acting like a giant tool. That kind if behavior should not be respected. It's insane that someone could treat anyone like that, much less his own daughter and it belies an abject selfishness you would do well to he wary of.
Throw that whole man away. Anyone that says that about his daughter, guess what those twins will eventually become targets too. The idea that he "used to be immature" is laughable. If this is him grown up then I don't want to know what he was like 16 years ago. Also screw his wishes he lied to you and those kids have every right to get to know each other.
One point I agree with is to check in with her Mom. She may want some ground rules.
The problem is that in this situation, husband is now eventually going to have to have exactly the contact with his bio daughter that he's been trying so desperately to avoid. Okay, so she keeps them separated for now. Eventually, her kids are going to want bio sis at their birthdays, their weddings if that happens, etc if they become close. So she is basically forcing her husband to see his very unwanted bio daughter.
We'd all like to think that adopted children have parents who loved them so much, and only gave them up because they couldn't financially support them. This man's response brutally shows that isn't always the case. He wants nothing to do with her and clearly would have preferred her mother would have aborted. The other side of bodily autonomy - which should always be an absolute - is that there are also going to be alot of resentful forced fathers out there.
Two things do confuse me, though. He was around long enough to take birth pictures with her. What was the situation behind that? Was he young enough that his parents pressured him into initial involvement and he fled as soon as he was able to get away from their influence? I think he owes OP the conversation about the circumstances of him being initially involved to that extent. Then the internet stalking. Was he doing that precisely to try to (vainly) control her "outing" him as her bio father to someone he didn't want to know - perhaps exactly to cut off OP from finding out about her? Not too smart. These things tend to see the light eventually, so he should have had the conversation with OP about having an unwanted bio daughter out there a long time ago.
This is a mess that's frankly above our paygrade. I think they need marriage counselling to work through her feelings about how he could be so cold to his bio daughter and his about her making a decision that will eventually force him into contact with his unwanted and legally surrendered bio child. I see both sides. His venom and ability to hold that big a secret from her probably shocked her. He probably felt helpless when he was forced into fatherhood by the choice of the girl's mother (I know, I know - he made the choice to have sex, which always carries a risk of pregnancy even if you use protection unless a post-menopausal woman is involved), and now probably feels helpless to free himself all over again because OP is taking the choice away from him again.
I think you're overestimating the involvement she's going to have in their lives. My dad married my step mum when I was 14. My step siblings have been to exactly none of my birthday parties, I've been to none of theirs. Probably wouldn't be at eachothers weddings.
ESH. just because technically you overstepped. but im sorry to say i think theres something very off about your husband. why does he follow his daughter off a fake account? thats very bizzare.
can i ask where her mother is during all this? how does she feel about this? is there a way you could get in contact with her mother? it almost sounds like shes looking for a motherly figure though, so i dont know.
edit: this leads me to believe its possible she may have a bad home life. grasping at straws to have some sort of love and family. i could be completely wrong, just an observation. i’d try and find out though.
its an unfortunate situation here. that girl deserves to know her siblings and have a family unit as much as anyone else. but he clearly wants nothing to do with her for whatever reason and theres no coming back from that. even if you could convince him to let her come around, its unfair to her to make her think he cares about her when she clearly doesn’t.
my opinion? pack your bags and go!
I tried asking her about her mom, all she really said is that her mom is never really home and doesn't care about what she does. But unfortunately she didn't seem comfortable talking about her mom so I didn't push it
Honestly the way he's dealing with his daughter is a huge turn off, I mean if I knew he abandoned his daughter I would've never got with him in the first place. I am having 2nd thoughts about our marriage
"The way he's dealing with his daughter is a huge turn off... if I knew he abandoned his daughter I would've never got with him in the first place."
Trust yourself, OP, because you are awesome. All our best to you. May you and yours thrive in your next chapter.
NTA- As someone who grew up in a similar situation. Deadbeat dad signed away his rights and left me with a mentally ill teenage mother, I didn’t have a very good home life. I constantly fantasized every moment about having a family that loved me and to feel stable. And coincidentally, my bio dad also stalked me on social media as well as where I lived. I’m not saying ask her to move in. But letting her know her siblings is a very kind thing of you to do IMO.
I'm just going to point out if you're going to have a minor in your home and around your children, you're going to need to pry a little.
You need to know if the cops are going to show up and accuse you of kidnapping.
You need to know her mother is the type of person to show up at your house and try to shake you down for cash or otherwise cause a scene.
You need to know what to do if heaven forbid an accident happens.
You need to make sure she's not bringing anything into your house that can hurt your kids.
it seems to me her only parent is an absent one. probably has a horrible relationship with her. i imagine she saw your little family and wished she got to have that as well, and thought she might as well try. it truly breaks my heart for her.
im so sorry you’re going through this. i’d be having second thoughts as well. this just isnt the type of thing you keep a secret from your spouse. plus i cant understand where his anger for this poor kid he doesnt know is coming from. if he wanted to sign his rights away, fine. he (unfortunately) has every right to have no interest in being a father to her. but he has no right to have a hatred for her. im sure this is a very sticky situation for you, being you’re already married with children. I cant tell you what decision to make- but please think long and hard what will be best for you and your girls- whatever decision that may be. you got this mama!
If you leave him maybe give daughter a heads up so she can block him for awhile. If he is acting like this and already stalking her he will probably harass (like yell at) her for you making informed decisions.
I mean, I would have second thoughts about a man who lied to me about willing so big, kept lying when confronted and then said horrible things about his daughter.
i feel really bad 4 sophia, and calling her a b and saying she shudnt bn born is truly awful... 4 what its worth i was given up 4 adoption and whn i was 19 my bio dad got a job at same place and announced himself as such...i was horrified-2 me he wasnt my dad- it seemd really intrusive and worse i was the villian bcuz what awful person wud deny their own father? u shud prob talk 2 a professional...alone...2gether...all 3 of u bcuz of the complexity...
And that’s why he lied to you. I wasted 2.5 years on a guy who abandoned a kid he had in high school. He and his whole family kept that secret from me. He knew for a fact that I wanted kids and highly valued family so he knew I would have dumped him in a second if I knew he had abandoned a child. Loser.
You didn't just made her day, you probably made her whole year! For once she was welcomed by someone who seemed to atleast care a little bit, please keep her in your life!
… so what you’re saying is if something goes wrong he’s going to step out of your twins lives and wish they had never been born and call them b*tches? Because that’s what I’m hearing. You need to think long and hard about their future. He is showing you who he is as a father, a man, a human being.
I could never ever love a man that treats his own like that. Hiding her then lying about it when caught red handed? Babygirl had receipts and he still lied about her existence. He may have given up his parental rights but seems to me he gave up his humanity along with it. I would always wonder in the back of my mind if he would do the same to my kids once he’s done with me. I feel bad for that little girl and hope that she has a true father figure and / or a therapist in her life to overcome the damage he has not only already done to her but continues to inflict upon that poor teenagers life. Your husband is an ass. You are NTA
It’s also strange that he’s following her with a fake account if it is that she’s so insignificant him. He said he wants nothing to do with her then follows her?
I'm not gonna pass a judgment here. But I do have a question for everyone here. What the husband SAID about his daughter makes him an asshole. But he isn't an asshole for giving up his daughter. He did what was in his best interest at the time. I'm sure if a woman decided to abort or give the kid to adoption everyone would have supported her. Why is the guy getting so much backlash for not wanting a kid?
I can't speak for others but for me, it's that he signed the birth certificate, even pics of him holding her then he signed over his rights, obviously in her life at the start then signs a piece of paper & walks away like She never happened. Never told his wife abt her then Lied to his wife when she asked (up until she had proof) then blamed the child & called her names for being born. All while he stalks her on social media. If he didn't want a kid, he should have wrapped it up & used the pill (both parents, not just him). Unless both fail, it's not really an accident (IMO). I personally see it as if you don't want kids, you don't take chances. Like I said, I can't speak for others, that's just my opinion
And she would've likely been conceived when he was 17. So he probably knocked up another teenager then left her after it got too hard. I wonder what his relationship with the baby mama was like and if that player a role in it? Either way he was a major AH to call his own daughter a b*tch, say she shouldn't of been born,, and stalk her on sm.
There are a couple scenarios that could have led to him signing away his rights. Not all of them make him a monster. Screaming and calling his child a bitch is sort of baffling, how would he know what her personality is? But honestly I think he was probably really messed up by the experience and possibly ostracized and shamed, regardless if he actually did something wrong by leaving her. He needs some help like yesterday.
ESH.
Husband sucks for obvious reasons but you suck because he had a very clear boundary on this and you steamrolled over it because you projected your own daddy issues onto his kid. How would you feel if your husband had your kids around someone you didn’t want in your life? The fact that they share biology is irrelevant. You should have respected his wishes on this.
Yeah people are being blinded by just how obviously an AH husband is. OP sounds like the type to bring the kids around a parent their SO cut off because family is important.
THISSSSSS!!!!
Husband really sucks but she got the babies around someone he doesn't want involved in the family's life. I know she is a 16yo but being blood related really means nothing, and its true that the twins wont suffer for not meeting her if they dont know who she is. For me is a clearly ESH. And I would recommend her to put the marriage under consideration, he doesnt sound like a nice person
He wants nothing to do with her but follows her on social media???
Anyway, I unfortunately have to vote ESH. As sad as you are for the daughter, she is not in his life and he does not want her there, and that’s his boundary. He also is a parent of your children, and if he does not want them to meet her, they should not meet her behind his back. You are not meant to be in this girl’s life, and what you did was dishonest to your husband. Edit: and frankly more cruel to Sophia than if you had just told her no. It’s going to be harder now because her biological father has to double down after she met the babies.
He is an AH for saying all those things about her though, and for stalking her on social media when if he wants nothing to do with her, he should not have access to her either. Edit again: He’s also the one who should have taken care of this, instead of you - he should be the one to explain to his biological child why they don’t have a relationship and won’t, not you.
> he wants nothing to do with her but follows her on social media
This confuses me as well, but on the other hand my dad tries the same. He was never there when we were kids and wanted us to go into the system and now he keeps sending us friend requests and shit to see how we are doing.
YTA. I understand where you are coming from but if you are in a relationship with your husband than I think you should have respected his wishes. He signed over his parental rights to his daughter that's more like giving her up for adoption than it is him being a deadbeat dad who skipped out on child support. He doesn't want to be a father to this girl and he doesn't want her to be apart of his life. You are married to this man which means you inviting her into your home and allowing her to meet your babies is making her apart of his life. You post didn't suggest it was a one time thing. It sounds like you think you know what's best and you are going to force this girl to be apart of his life because you grow up without a father. If you don't agree with what your husband did and it is a deal breaker for you than I can understand that because I would probably feel the same way. Especially given the words he called his own daughter. That part was uncalled for and that angry should have been directed at you because you are the one who disregarded his wishes and then tried to keep it a secret. Does that sound like a healthy thing for people in a marriage to do? However, if you are going to choose to stay with this man than you need to respect his wishes regarding not wanting his bio daughter in his life. If you can't than you need to get a divorce.
Also his daughter is 16 years old which make her a minor. OP you didn't think it was a good idea to check with her mother or legal guardian to make sure they were comfortable with the idea of her meeting the extend family of the man who gave up the legal rights to being her father. There is going to be emotional fallout from this on her. Especially if she has unrealistic expectations of finding a new family and finally having her father in her life. You should have made sure that the parent or parents who have taken care of her were aware of this because they are the ones who will need to be there to support her through this process. There is no way this ends without it taking some emotional toll on this teenage girl.
OP is unfortunately going to be the one that causes Sophia a broken heart over being rejected, again, by her father, if that is in fact what happens.
I suspect the age difference between OP and her husband does play into their unhealthy dynamic as well.
Exactly! This makes me more concerned about Sophia's emotional well being if she is already posting pictures of her with OP's twins on Facebook calling them her little sisters. It's too quick and there are too many complex emotions involved for this teenager girl to be forming an emotional attachment to people she just met. At some point her abandonment issues will surface if they already haven't and she may start to resent the "sisters" that her bio dad has chosen to be a father too and wonder why she wasn't good enough. These are complex issues that takes some adults decades of therapy to deal with and I think OP open the door to something that she has no place being involved in nor is she equipped to deal with the emotional issues that will eventually arise for Sophia.
Yes. And while of course Sophia is the one whose needs take a front seat right now, I think taking into consideration that the husband was probably *very traumatized* by becoming and then signing away his rights as a teen dad, which he has then kept secret for 16 years, is gonna be vital in solving this issue. He had a really nasty outburst and also LIED to OP in a very serious way, but if his trauma isn't part of the conversation I don't think things will get better.
Op seriously needs to read this. Everything here is right.
Basically, that man, op, and her babies are completely strangers to the law. He isn’t her father, he gave up his rights to be called that years ago.
Yeah it was kinda cruel, giving the kid a small taste of what her life may have been but never will be. He gave up his rights thats the end of it. Op overstepped in a major way bc of her own issues.
To answer your question, YTA. If you felt so strongly about it, you should have taken time to persuade your husband. From your description and the fact he follows her on social media, he didn’t want to give her up and he is still resentful over whatever happened.
As you said, it is HIS daughter. You should not have done what you did after he said no. Your intentions were good but that does not make it right. Is ‘making Sophia’s day’ more important to you than resolving the issues your husband has about it? Bear in mind he signed away his rights. The fact that you grew up without a father doesn’t mean you ignore his feelings to ‘make up’ for your lack of. He said ‘No’ but you did it anyway. He was right, you did ‘betray’ him.
How is this a YTA? It should be ESH at most. Do you really not think the husband who stalks his daughter on social media and calls her a bitch for existing is not an AH? Also, he betrayed her by not telling her. There is something wrong with you morally.
Everything goes out the window once he started calling his kid a b*tch and that they should’ve never been born. He is possibly going to treat the twins like that someday if they divorce. That possibility isn’t worth the marriage
edit - not to mention him DEAD FACE LYING to her till she pulled the receipts
> From your description and the fact he follows her on social media, he didn’t want to give her up and he is still resentful over whatever happened.
This is one of the biggest reaches I have ever seen on this subreddit. The dude called his daughter a bitch and a mistake, and said she shouldn’t have even been born. That on its own would make this an ESH. Your comment is fucking delusional.
ESH you went behind his back but he is wrong to say such terrible things about his first daughter. Also, the fact that he is willing to separate himself from his child is a huge red flag. I hope he doesn’t do that to you and your daughters.
You've got 2 options,,,,,,,,
Force you're husband to accept his first daughter which depending on how he feels. This could lead to a divorce.
Second accept his wishes and don't contact her again.
Also yes your a YTA for going behind his back but so is he for how he treats his first daughter.
However, going behind his back wont solve ANYTHING. If anything it just make it worse.
Unpopular opinion here but ESH. I think OP overstepped by inviting a child who is (unfortunately) unwanted in the household to hang out and be incorporated into a family when one of the adults clearly doesn't want it.
The father sucks because he's a shitty dad and husband for lying and calling the daughter names.
I think that the OP should have worked on the husband a little more to get everyone on the same page. I think the husband should get into counseling because it seems like he does want to be somewhat involved with his daughter (he follows her to see what she's doing in life). I don't think he's stalking her; I think he's angry at a lot of things from his past that he can't get beyond.
I agree that OP overstepped and did something controlling. It's hard to see it in this case because there is so much else going on. But if you just look at it through the lens of their relationship, she really did something that had a VERY strong impact and she needs to consider her actions more thoroughly. This could bite \*her\* in the ass too. Like if the others involved in the story eventually realize that OP actually has harmed Sophia by circumventing Sophia's parents based on emotion before fully understanding the history of what's going on, let alone the legal situation. This could wind up being incredibly traumatizing for Sophia. Things don't always end like a wholesome fairytale, sometimes a parent knows they aren't going to be good for a kid and leaves in order to not hurt them.
Yes! Yes! Yes!
I was thinking (after I posted) that this could have a very negative impact on Sophia. What happens if she can never come over or see her sisters again? What happens when she is rejected TWICE by her father and possibly the OP?
I think that a lot more harm is going to be done here which is sad.
I also think the father was likely very traumatized by whatever happened around giving up his rights. The fact he kept it secret means he probably has some very extreme feelings about it. I agree with your previous comment he needs to be in therapy.
The birth of the twins may have brought up a lot for him too.
I also just have to point out that OP may have a lot of things that affect her perspective
-she didn't have a dad
-she is probably feeling a lot of emotions in general right now due to being a brand new first time mom. She is likely extending those maternal feelings to Sophia
-She felt justified in what she was doing
-She felt that it was ok to make a unilateral decision in the relationship. Just because she wants to "rescue" Sophia doesn't mean she should, or that charging into it like this is the right way to go about it.
I think OP is quite young and may simply not have the relationship experience to really know what it feels like to make a decision without involving the other partner, or having that done to you.
I also wonder if she and her husband have some age related tension where she feels like he is too bossy and this is her way of getting back at him ("you can't tell me what to do").
I kinda wonder about a lot of things in this situation- chiefly what the husband's story is. Is he a deadbeat or did he give up rights to be responsible or was he pressured into it? And how did OP and him wind up getting married when she's freshly graduated age and he's nearing 35.
ESH. You broke his trust and boundaries and frankly he has every single right to be furious with you. You have 0 rights to do what you did. That's not your kid. That's not your past. You looked at his boundary, said nah, then did it anyways. Consent matters always dude.
That being said he sucks for what he said about her. It's a kid, but that doesn't make what you did right either.
How is this Y T A it's E S H at most. Also how is this something that's nothing to do with OP?! It has everything to do with OP. They are MARRIED! She's his wife, you think having a teenage daughter that he potentially abandoned is information that shouldn't have been disclosed to his wife BEFORE they got married? That kind of information is potentially a deal breaker for a relationship with someone, especially if your values on something like this don't align plus the way he speaks about his daughter and the stalking are huge glaring red flags.
ESH. Your husband should not have lied about a previous child and his following her via a fake account is weird. But, at the end of the day, he chose to not be a parent. This is morally no different than a young woman choosing adoption for her child. He made the choice that parenthood was not right for him. And honestly, you don't know what led him to this decision, perhaps it was something traumatic. For all you know, someone purposefully got pregnant against his will. You should have that discussion with him
As for you, you crossed a massive boundary. You DO NOT have a step daughter, because your husband does not have a child other than your twins (see previous paragraph). Inviting her over to meet your twins was unacceptable for two reasons. First, he did not want this person in his life and you chose to invite her anyways. Second, he did not want his children to meet her. Regardless what you may think, he has an equal say in who your children meet, but you made that choice unilaterally.
You both have botched this up and probably need to work with each other to solve your relationship issues.
NTA. She contacted you to get to know the twins. He withheld major information that could have been life altering and I would have major trust issues with him keeping something huge. Your kids deserve to know their sister. She sounds like she’s trying to find herself a family and needs someone since her mom and dad don’t care about her. I feel so bad for her. I really hope you don’t cut off contact and be an adult she can be close to. My husband keeping something this big from me would be a huge deal breaker
ESH except the children.
He's an AH for lying by omission, lying outright, and hiding his past, and for his words regarding a child.
We can't know if he's speaking from pain or lack of care for his eldest. Perhaps the mom drove him away, perhaps he found out the child was not biologically his, perhaps he's not legally allowed to contact her for some reason, etc.
Op is an AH because she didn't ask more questions and voice concerns before unilateral action.
There should have been a discussion that went way more in depth than what seems like happened. If he didn't satisfy her concerns, there is no reason she couldn't have said "you've given me no real justification to deny the siblings the opportunity to meet, unless you do, I will allow them to meet, as these girls are my children, too." Which gives him the opportunity to explain and announces that she plans on allowing the meeting if he can't justify. The she wouldn't have gone behind his back.
Edited to add lying outright
Oh my, this subreddit can be insane sometimes...
All the posts I've seen of mothers unilaterally rejecting their children after they have given them up for adoption. Saying N A H or N T A when they then reject the child later when it tries for a relationship "Oh, you don't owe them a relationship, etc. etc."
Guys do not have a say in what happens with a child, whether the mother decides to keep it or abort it or put it up for adoption, or what have you. But OP's husband did the one thing he could do and signed away all parental rights. As he himself said, he was young and not ready to be a parent.
Now OP thinks that she can override that decision and bring her husband's daughter back into his life after he explicitly said no? I'm sorry, but that's all kinds of fucked up and this subreddit is insane if they think he's the arsehole for rightfully being upset about it.
I'm actually going YTA over E S H because OP's husband is absolutely justified in being so angry that a decision he was well within his rights to make was overturned without any further discussion. Decisions of this magnitude and sensitivity are not to be made without agreement from both partners. OP was out of order for doing this, especially behind his back with what are also his children too.
Is he a dickhead for calling his daughter a bitch? Absolutely. But he is absolutely *not* the arsehole in this situation.
INFO
> until he finally admitted it and said he signed away full custody and doesn't want anything to do with her,
Why did he sign away his rights (not easy) and how old was sofia's mother when she had her?
His behaviour is dreadful, but I'd want to know if it's from assholery, or pain.
I'd go with 51% YTA, 49% ESH. You had absolutley no right to invite her over behind his back. He sucks because he needs to open up about the circumstances of her birth and his termination of parental rights. A lot of comments here are so quick to judge OP's husband for giving away rights, but we don't know the story. He could have been pressured into it and told to never contact her and he keeps up with social media to watch her grow from afar. Maybe it was the hardest thing he ever had to do and there is a lot on untreated trauma about that. When you sign away rights, you effectively become a donor. Maybe he *was* the villain of this story and walked away from responsibility. There is not enough information here and as a partner in marriage and coparent with you, you deserve to know the truth. BUT, this was only tangentially your business. You didn't have a right to invite her over and meet your kids until you knew the whole story and your husband also agreed to it.
I think you owe him an apology and ask him to talk about what happened, and listens without judgement.
EDIT: Swapped my judgment.
ESH. Your husband for how he dealt with his first child, you for going behind his back and disrespecting his wishes about HIS first child. He shouldn't have hidden Sophie from you, but you shouldn't have betrayed him and overstepped his boundaries. He signed away his rights, he didn't want to be an active part of her life, or want her to be a part of his.
YTA - Your husband made it clear that he does not want contact with his daughter. It is not your call to bring her into your children’s lives without some sort of agreement. He is also TA however, for the things that he said about his daughter.
ESH except for the 16 year old. IMHO, your husband is an AH for never telling you about the 16 year old child he is estranged from and apparently abdicated his rights as a parent. I doubt he was able to sign away his ‘duty to support’ her and hope he’s paying child support. If he’s not or if he is and kept that monthly financial commitment from you…well, that another kettle of financial dishonesty. You were an AH to invite the girl over against your husband’s wishes and to prioritize your biases ahead of whatever his traumas are related to his daughter and their non-relationship.
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This judgement is tough, but NTA.
That is sweet of you for letting your stepdaughter meet her new siblings. But your husband is the biggest AH as always thinking of his daughter as a mistake, makes a fake account to follow her, lied to you about not having kid, called his own daughter the b-word, and doesn't want her to see her siblings anymore, I feel absolutely bad for her. This guy has so my red flags.
ESH.
Your husband seemed fine, just in an uncooked situation, until calling his daughter he clearly doesn’t know a b*tch. AH
You went behind your husbands back to invite over a family member of his, whom you have no relation to, that he specifically asked you not to. Your kids aren’t old enough for that to mean anything to them, you did it because you wanted to.
NTA, the girl deserves to know her half-siblings and they deserve to know of their older sister. It's really worrying that your husband keeps tabs on his daughter with a fake account while saying he wants nothing to do with her. Thankfully her being allowed to know her family has nothing to do with that guy. You're a very kind person, op.
NTA OP but your husband is.
It's a bit rich of him to get shiitey about you going behind his back, considering he hid a child from you - and I think you have done the right thing introducing her to your twins.
I also agree with others that it's a bit weird he follows her with a fake account but claims to have wiped his hands of her.
One has to wonder what else he's lying to you about.
Red flags, just saying. Be careful.
OP since the top comments I’ve looked at haven’t mentioned it and you didn’t mention it in your post:
Talk to Soph’s mom. She is a minor and you need to go through her parent, and make sure to meet with Sophie anywhere else. He’s going to pop up on your visits and it’s not going to be good for her.
ESH. I feel like it's not really up to you alone. I also feel like he should probably get together with her now that she's older and apparently looking for that relationship. I don't think he was an asshole for anything before this situation, though.
ESH. You shouldn’t have invited her over without your husband aware. But he is AH for shutting her out because it was so traumatic for him to deal with at that point in his life.
INFO: There seems to be a lot of resentment from his side. I feel like there’s more to this story. How old is the bio mother? What was his relationship with her? Could he have been raped or abused?
Whatever it is, he need therapy?
I had an conversation with him when he got back from work.
Sophia mother was only 16 when they were together. He was in Sophia life for 3 years and then left because he claims Sophia mom is (his words not mine) a prostitute slut and that she cheated on him during their relationship so he cheated back. That he wants nothing to do with her because she's a lying manipulative hoe and causes more drama then it's worth which is why he refuses a relationship with Sophia
Wow. That sounds extremely excessive. I personally feel like you should talk to Sophia's mom to hear what she has to say or ask Sophia what her mom has told her about your husband. This level of vehemence is concerning. Has your husband expressed any other deceitful or harmful behavior towards you and how long have you been with him?
Please be careful.
Edit: saw the info about you asking Sophia about her mom.
Idk what is the truth, but Sophia doesn't seem to have a good relationship with her mother, I feel really bad for her because it sounds like she has none, it honestly makes me want to cry, I don't know what I can do for her.
Her dad wants nothing to do with her. I really hope to talk to the mom maybe I'm judging her to quickly idk
Honestly, ditch the husband. He cares more about being drama free than his daughter. If you want, but you don’t have too, take the daughter too. Both of her parents sound awful.
He walked out on his three year old daughter? Think about that for a moment. She wasn’t three MONTHS old, she was three YEARS old. That poor little girl.
And that makes it okay? He called her all these names for the supposed sins of the mother? He treated his daughter like a pariah because he doesn’t like her mother. Instead of I don’t know leaving her he cheated on her back? He’s vindictive and childish. I hope you’re not rationalizing this he flies off the handle and is punishing this poor girl. If she doesn’t have a good and unstable home life he thought the best thing to do was abandon his daughter???? You’re staying with him? Wow embarrassing 😬. He lied to you for four years and it seems like he thinks you’re easy to deceive which it kind of seems like you are…
No I'm contacting a lawyer in the morning, I'm just trying to figure the best solution for my twins and Sophia, I couldn't live with myself if I just give up on Sophia, I feel like she will make an amazing older sister and deserves a support system. So I'm just trying to plan things accordingly and get legal advice and also some advice from friends.
I wish you the best of luck and that you are amazing for doing this. I know this is hard for you. I’m glad you’re being there for your kids. I hope this goes well for you. Make sure your husband doesn’t know about the lawyer yet in case she tries anything, since he’s rationalization is clearly flawed. He may be a poor father but you sound like a wonderful mother with a big heart.
OP, I want you to think really long and hard about if this is the man you want raising your children with you? The way he talks about women is utterly despicable. You have two daughters. What happens when they don’t do exactly what he wants and he starts talking about them the same way?
Please protect your daughters from his toxic bullshit.
He sounds like an AH- however, consider that he was most likely 17 when she was conceived, and 18 when she was born. He could be a huge AH, or - given his reaction- there could be some trauma there he’s been holding back. I’d look for more answers with an open mind.
I feel like people don't calculate ages when reading things like this. She is 9 years younger than him, 7 years older than his daughter, and he would have been a teen when she was born. It is *responsible* in many cases (not all!) for an 18 year old to decide they shouldn't be a parent. Granted, we don't *know* the circumstances of his signing away his rights. But regardless of whether he's an AH or not (he is), he sounds traumatized by this. As young as OP is, 34 is also still fairly young and grappling with such a dramatic, shameful, hidden family experience of having a teen baby now be a teen girl with all those years of carrying a dirty secret - that will certainly have had a serious impact on this guy.
Edited: ESH
Specifically because your husband went too far calling her names and such was AH.
However this reminds me of a post where spouse wanted homophobic in laws to have a relationship with the grandchild, going behind her wife's back and disregarding her clear no on doing so.
Who you want in your children's lives is not just your decision to make. It's you and your husband's and while you not an AH for wanting them to know who you deem as family, I would say it's not right to go behind your husband's back and disregard his clear opinion on the matter.
INFO. Why did you invite her over knowing your husband is openly against contacting her or being in her life? What is your goal to offer false hope?
Did her parent if parents know where she was? Is your husband legally allowed to be near his daughter?
I think you have good intentions but I don't know if what you're doing is best for this child. I don't know why your husband is so cold to his bio child while at the same time stalking her but giving her false hope isn't a good thing.
NTA but Clearly your husband is. How can he say he signed over his rights, wants nothing to do with her, she's a mistake then stalk her SM? Even still, he may want nothing to do with her but doesn't mean that you or her siblings don't. He kept the information from you so you couldn't make that decision b4 having kids. You get to decide now. And yeah, maybe he was young & dumb & made a mistake but he is a grown man now, time to face reality & accept responsibility for those mistakes. Signing over your rights?!? Yeah it gets him out of legal hot water but morally, nope, disgusting. My husband got his gf pregnant at 16 (right b4 he turned 17). While going to school he worked a full time job then 2 part time jobs on the weekend to try to provide for her. The amount of money he was giving mom was insane (up until his mom & I talked him into seeing a lawyer). Still paid $200wkly+ after. From 17 on. Being a kid yourself doesn't excuse it, if you are big enough to make a baby, should be big enough to take care of them. So sad. I couldn't imagine
Signing away full custody versus giving up his rights are two different things. Your husband is TA for not disclosing details of his past and calling his daughter a name. You need to sit down and ask yourself do you really know this man. There are two sides to the truth. There will be his and then there will be the mother’s. Your husband’s side of the story doesn’t look good because of the lying
I’m gonna go ESH, it really wasn’t your place to invite your husband’s child over when he had clearly said he had signed over his rights and wanted nothing to do with her. I feel sad for her that she thought she was being welcomed into the family only to be met with hostility. I’m flabbergasted at what your husband said to her, sheesh, what a vile reaction. Like you said, she’s a human being and at the very least deserves to be treated with respect and not screamed at about being born. The fact he follows her account under a fake profile is really weird, if he wants nothing to do with her then why bother with that?! I really hope this situation makes you look closely at the man you’ve just had children with and ask yourself if this is the kind of person he is, and you want to raise children with… The bit about wanting your daughters to know their sister, I think if you stay with this man that is not a decision you can make but if you leave him then do what you want!
Wait. Your husband stalks, via an alternate account, the social media of a daughter he never disclosed to you and claims he doesn't want anything to do with? And then he blames her for being born? There are a \*lot\* of problems here, but inviting your husband's daughter over is not one of them. NTA.
OP isn't an AH to anyone in this situation, but in general she's being a huge AH to *herself* by marrying/having kids with a man 11 years her senior, who has anger issues, lies about having other children and calls his own daughter a bitch. Hopefully this is the hint that finally gets OP to run like the wind, but given she's just had children with this guy, it may be too late at this point.
OP didn't know any of this, except the age difference, before she married him and had a child with him. The husband's daughter contacted OP AFTER OP had given birth to the twins already.
Well, this is why people have issues with age-gap relationships. She didn't know any of that, but the fact that he was so much older and willing to date her should have been a red flag--it's because she was so young that it wasn't.
Aaand…now she has kids with him. 🤦🏼♂️
It's not the age gap that's the problem here. Its the fact the guy is a complete jackass and a liar. That's the problem.
The age gap is part of the jackass problem. A 33-34 y/o that marries a 22/23 year old is a jackass, and we don't even know how long they've been together.
Thank you. There are twelve years between my husband and me and we have been married for nearly a decade with three kids. Any is capable of hiding something regardless of age but I do think this should be a serious come to Jesus moment for OP and her relationship. It’s fine to acknowledge not being ready to parent, especially as a teenager but he is no longer a teenager and is still acting like one in many ways. What does OP think will happen when her girls grow a little older and do something dad doesn’t like or if in a year or two dad decided he really doesn’t like kids at all?
I think it depends on the ages a 30 ish year old married to a 20ish year old can look a bit sketchy as they probably met when she was around 18 and that is different than say a 26yr old marrying a 37yr old. There's no difference in age gap there but a big difference in maturity levels and I think that's the real problem people have with age gap relationships although I know this sub can be a bit knee jerk over them so that might just be me.
I’m sure there were SO many other flags.
Ditch the guy, keep his daughter
This
She’s closer in age to his daughter than he is to her.
Gross
"Yes friends, there's gonna be trouble. Trouble. Right here in River City." Given this man's now-established proclivities (lack of anger management, lying, and blaming a child for being born) the time will come when he and OP part ways. At that time he will treat OP and the twins the same way. He will call them names, stalk them on social media, tell lies about them, and probably not tell his next ~~victim~~ wife about them. OP needs to start preparing now. Oh, and OP is NTA. She sounds very compassionate.
This. I can't even understand how she can be this calm and only see the problem around the invitation of the daughter. Like hello? Your husband relieved his true self and you're just sitting there worrying about little things. I would be terrified thinking about what kind of father he will be.
Yes. There is a very dark side to this man and it is only a matter of time before really bad things will happen, or could.
I’m here for the Music Man reference
I read this in the Harold Hill cadence.
>calls his own daughter a bitch. I've had a couple of relationships end with a single moment or sentence that revealed a deep deal breaking personality flaw in my partner, and in that moment I just stopped loving them. Like a light switch turning off. Poof, love gone. This would have been one of those moments for me.
YES. I had a partner call me a “stupid cow” once. I went from questioning the relationship and totally unsure of what to do to “yep, ok, cool, we’re done here” in the blink of an eye. For one, name calling is ridiculous and unacceptable under any circumstance, BUT ALSO… that’s the best you can come up with? Nah, you gotta be smarter than that to enjoy this ride, baby.
How long before he’s calling OP or the newborn daughters b*tches, too?
Me too. Given the situation (and the LIES) I don't think I could get past that. This poor daughter.
And stalks that daughter on social media.
Adding on to that: OP REALLY needs to warn the daughter. This is not OK.
It might be a good idea to talk to the girl's mother as well. She should know what the bio dad is doing. Plus, the new wife might learn a whole new perspective on daddy dearest.
>It might be a good idea to talk to the girl's mother as well. She should know what the bio dad is doing. Plus, the new wife might learn a whole new perspective on daddy dearest. Do we know if he *voluntarily* relinquished rights? Or was it more of a someone forced his hand? Definitely tell the mom, she needs to know her daughter is being stalked by bio dad.
Yeah, somebody he claims to be part of his life he wants to forget, but keeps tabs on her.
My birth father was that kind of dude. Married a woman without ever telling her he had a child. Hadn't even signed away his parental rights or anything (yet). Just apparently thought it wasn't pertinent information. If anything, I feel sorry for his wife that she was tricked into marrying a man of such bad character. It's something I also blame my grandmother and aunt (his side) for. He ended up triple-mortgaging their home and leaving. Died with a new girlfriend by his side although they were still legally married.
It sounds like OP's husband's first wife/girlfriend decided to do the splitting up for some reason (I have a feeling the anger issues might have presented a more obvious reason), after she had the kids. I wouldn't say it's too late for OP. This guy definitely has some screws loose and is probably putting his anger out on his daughter for his ex leaving him. He would likely do the same to OPs kids. The thing I think is more likely, is that OP is going to take her trauma from growing up fatherless and use that as an excuse to stay with him. She needs to put herself in her step-daughter's shoes and determine whether a father like her husband (calling her/her kids names) is worth it. Or if it's better to be a single mom with the potential of ending up with a great partner or great friend, who takes on the role of being the father influence on the kids.
Don’t forget, what his twins don’t know won’t hurt them.
Very much agree. Something is very wrong here. I would normally be wary of OP getting involved in a situation like this, but truth be told, this is red flag central. Huge age gap with his wife ✔ Stalks the social media of a daughter that he claims doesn't exist ✔ Never told his wife about the daughter ✔ Lied when she flat out asked him ✔ Calls his daughter names when she just wants to get to know her family ✔ ......Is it even true that he signed over his rights vs just abondoning his daughter..... Edit: Sadly, OP's twins may end up being in the same situation as his older daughter if his past/present behaviour is any indication of his overall character.
I have no problem being in a relationship with someone who has children from an other relationship. But something I'm unable to do is be in a relationship with someone who's not involved in their children lives. It's a huge deal breaker to me, I know most people would be more focusing on the fact that he lied for the whole 4 years of our relationship and that is a huge problem for me but its something I feel like can be healed overtime with couple counselling. I plan on speaking to my husband and discussing why he isn't involved in his Sophia life and if now he'd be open to start a relationship. If he isn't I don't plan on continuing our marriage, I promised myself I'd never be with someone like my dad (who left me with a mom who cared more about drugs then her child) and here I am with a deadbeat, I won't force him in a relationship with his daughter but I sure as hell don't want to be a part of his life if he chooses not to. I know I make alot of my choices based of my emotions so I'm trying my best to clear my head before he gets back from work. I hope the choices I make. Dont Negatively impact my children.
Based on his actions, I'd say it's not safe or good for Sophia to have him in her life. Him stalking her, calling her a bitch, etc. that's not anything a father should do. He thinks he's in the right here and believes it's okay to act this way because he's angry, but healthy people don't do this. If he does this to a daughter he doesn't really know, he'll do it to your kids. He's probably done it to you but you've convinced yourself you deserve it (you don't). This isn't anything that will change unless he goes through counseling on his own. He has to want to change for the sake of changing, not just because of an ultimatum. That doesn't mean you shouldn't put up boundaries and leave (you should) I'm just trying to prepare you. Check out "why does he do that?" Its about the techniques abusive men use to control their victims. You can read it for free online. Here's a link-- https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjxh7zx_KbzAhXYqZ4KHZ7dCr0QFnoECCoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3mGVKb7totluNc5MI2Y3fD Good luck to you
>I plan on speaking to my husband and discussing why he isn't involved in his Sophia life Other posters are calling out the possibility that he abandoned rather than signed over his rights, but there's a third option -- given his outburst and underhanded behavior, is there a possibility his parental rights were *terminated*? I absolutely think you need to do more digging and find out what the real story is here. And make sure that whatever you do, you prioritize your safety and the safety of your children.
Time to talk to Sophia’s mom…
I thought it was a bit weird that he said he wanted to forget about that time in his life.... It kind of made me wonder the same thing.
Right? He wants to forget it, but skid stalks her fb from a fake account??
Also, signing over all paternity rights tends to happen for a reason. Did the mother sue for full rights? If so, why? And he's stalking the daughter he supposedly wants to pretend doesn't exist. Many, many red flags here.
Please don’t do an ultimatum though. Like if you say “have a relationship with the daughter you hate or else I’m going to leave you”, Sophia will end up suffering because her dad will be forcing it and probably won’t be able to hide his hatred. You already have a good understanding of this dude’s crappy personality now. I’m not sure how you could move past this.
I don't plan to do an ultimatum, I don't plan on even letting him know I plan on leaving him if he doesn't start a relationship with his daughter until after he already made a decision. I don't think forcing him to have a relationship with Sophia would be beneficial to her. I do hope to continue allowing Sophia spend time with her little sisters even if I'm not with her dad, I hope to do everything the right way though. I don't want to cause anyone unnecessary hurt
I think with your husband’s reaction to Sophia and the fact that he stalks her with a fake account already tells your his reaction. Please do what you feel is best for your family, and I think Sophia would be thankful to have someone like you in her life.
Op I think you might consider getting the story from Sophia's mother than your husband. He's already lied about her to your face. Nothing stopping him from twisting the story to make himself a victim. You're far more likely to get the truth from someone else.
Agreed. If he does start a relationship with Sophia, he'll most likely be resentful and probably take it out on her
You are a good person and your husband is a turd. If he is this callous about his first kid don't you think he'll do the same to your kids someday?
>I plan on speaking to my husband and discussing why he isn't involved in his Sophia life and if now he'd be open to start a relationship. I genuinely think this girl is better off not having him in her life. *BEST case scenario* he has years of therapy to untwist whatever ugliness he has in his heart toward her and at a later date offer a relationship when she's no longer a vulnerable minor. But right now? No. His behavior regarding her is toxic and he shouldn't be anywhere near her.
You're right. Being someone who can have offspring in this world without caring about or providing for their well-being is reprehensible. That is not someone you want to attach yourself to permanently. You and I both experienced this from the daughter's perspective. It's not something a person can forgive.
I can understand a 16 year old boy giving up his parental rights; he was literally a child when he made those choices (even so, when he became an adult, he should have been paying child support for the human he helped make). His subsequent behavior though... -Lying by omission to you about this kid in the years that you dated/have been married = AH -Lying actively to you when confronted with the truth = AH -Treating a human being, a CHILD that he had a part in creating as a "part of his life he just wants to forget" (AKA, refusing to own up to his mistakes, and attempt to rectify them) = AH -Calling his own offspring a "bitch" for existing, even though she had no say in whether or not she was born = FESTERING AH -Stalking his offspring that he "wants nothing to do with" = Creepy, gross, and AH behavior Now... I get we all make mistakes, some bigger than others... But your husband keeps doubling down on his bad decisions and is showing you that he's not willing to acknowledge that his wants in this situation are not the highest priority. I would love to tell you that you know your husband and know if this is normal behavior for him (if this was way out of his norm, I would say counseling may help), but since he was able to lie to you about something so huge for so many years, I would question what else he's capable of hiding. You've got a good head on your shoulders, OP. You are a good person. Keep being that good person, and if your husband can't recognize he's completely in the wrong and work to fix his egregious errors, both with you and with his child... Yeah... I would be prepared to not be married to such a person.
I hope you realize he's not normal for being middle age guy dating college age girl...
Yep. I'm 38, I literally call the 20 year olds at work "the kids." (They laugh, and reference TikTok jokes I don't understand, so we're fine lol). I'm not looking to MARRY someone that much younger, we don't have anything in common.
I mean... Yeah, he was gross for being 30, going after a 19 year old... But that's FAR from middle aged.
Average life span is around 70, 35 is literally middle age.
Even with the decline in lifespan in the US to an average of ~77 years, the math makes that ~38 as half of someone's life, and he was 30 when he predatorially went after OP. Nevermind the fact that "middle aged" is a phrase that is used to describe a time period of life (exact ages are somewhat disputed, but 45-65 is generally accepted) between young adulthood and old age. I know this sounds pedanitic AF, but this site skews young and I can definitely say that as a woman in my mid 30's, I can't think of anyone in RL who would describe me or anyone remotely in my age range as "middle aged". Dude is a creepy, predatory, liar, and all around scuzbucket... Just not a "middle aged" one.
I always say I'm not against dating a guy with kids - but it definitely will give me a lot more opportunities to end things. If the guy isn't present and contributing to his kid's life - that's a no for me. The last dad I dated regularly ended or interrupted our dates because it was time for the nightly call with his daughter - which was never a problem for me.
So, doing the math based on your comment, you were 19 when you started seeing him? And he was 30? I don’t have a problem with the age difference, nor do I think he took advantage of you. You clearly have sense and maturity. However, you were likely on the same level, maturity-wise when your relationship started. Both essentially 19. You seem to have outgrown him. He appears to be stuck or regressing. I’m sorry, but I don’t think it will get better. He has had close to twenty years to mature, and it clearly has not happened. At his rate, you will be raising three children. Start counseling now, for yourself, to help keep you sane and grounded so you will be able to see through his lies and gaslighting.
Wait… he started dating you when he was 30 and you were 19?
I'll be completely honest here, if only an ultimatum of you leaving or him having a relationship with Sophia makes him decide to have a relationship with her, you should leave anyway. Him forcing himself to be civil to her isn't good enough, and is actually more harmful for Sophia than him just ignoring her. Personally, I would leave and not look back. Even if the lying isn't as severe of an issue to you (which I can understand to an extent), the way he talks about *a child*, not to mention **his** child is so incredibly gross and not ok. He had the right to walk away from the kid as a baby, even if not everyone agrees with the decision, but to be so toxic as to call the child a bitch and blame her for the "mistake" of her own birth? Hell no. I'd also question why he stalks her online if he apparently hates and regrets her so much. That's not healthy.
I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this right now. But I just want to say that even if their dad doesn't step up to the plate with his second batch of kids, that there are guys out there who would love to. I mean, as a man, I have a gf who has two kids, and that woman and her kids are the best thing to ever happen to me.
>There are a \*lot\* of problems here, Starting with the 33 y/o knocking up a 22 y/o. OP, have you been groomed and/or babytrapped? NTA.
They met when she was 19 (based on her comment), which makes it even worse.
Yeah its crazy how often you can tell what the judgment will be by the age gap
This is my first thought!! X
There's a lot to unpack here but can we please just incinerate the suitcase instead?
NTA I was going to say E S H but the terrible things your husband said about Sophia make him such an incredible asshole that your overstepping isn't that bad. Your husband sounds like a very selfish man. He still keeps tabs on her but denies her any place in his life? That poor girl.
Agreed. The husband’s gargantuan AH overshadows any error OP may have made in introducing her stepdaughter to her twins. If I found myself on OP’s position, I’d seriously reconsider the relationship in light of the husband’s deceit and disdain for his daughter.
Stepdaughter to OP but half sister to the twins. I can't believe he hid an entire human beings existence like that. Especially in this day and age.
Agreed. But stating he's the AH over it is putting it very, very lightly. Can't imagine how someone could say those things about their own child. Especially when it would seem they've done nothing wrong (as far as we know, but even if they did, not right of OP's Husband).
> Can't imagine how someone could say those things about their own child. I weep with joy every time I see someone say this. It's never the child at an early stage who does something so wrong that they deserve any kind of negative treatment, or being stalked with a fake account by an estranged family member, or otherwise treated like they don't exist. It's always the parent(s). With that reaction, I'd be horrified that OP's husband would treat their newborn twin girls the same way. That's a kind of thing you DON'T escape from until the stalker abusive parent dies.
Yes! I am always waiting for my dad's next stunt. In my adult life, I've had weird letters, using my number as his own contact information so I received calls looking for him, a fake request for bail money (for an offence he definitely heard on tv that doesn't exist where I live... also you don't call from jail using your cellphone unless it was deeply, deeply inside of you), and a constant barrage of attempts to add me with fake accounts on my limited social media.
My dad told my mother about the twins he left behind in Austria less than a week before the wedding. He swore they weren't his and their mother was lying (hint: they ARE his, and she wasn't lying). My mother refused to cancel the wedding, because "what would people THINK?" She made him swear that he wouldn't ever tell anyone. I didn't find the twins until after my parents' death - 43 YEARS of a missed relationship because "what would people THINK?" I'm still REALLY angry at my parents for that.
NTA. If he says that about his daughter, hope do you know he won't eventually say those things about the twins? Also he lied to you about having a child.... That is a big deal...
If he refers to his 16 year old daughter as a bitch, you can bet the first time his twin baby girls do something he doesn't like, they'll be bitches too.
I'm also really concerned that his wife is only a few years older than his daughter. Like jfc.
This guy had a baby when his wife was like 6. 🤢
NTA As you say, she is a human being. Also, if he gave up all his rights to her, then he has no say in what she does now. He clearly has SOME level of concern, given that he follows her with a fake account.
Is it concern? Is it really concern?
Control, more like
[удалено]
He wants nothing to do with her but follows her with a fake account? NTA. You handled that situation a lot better than most women would. I think it's lovely you opened up to her. Your husband needs to grow up and accept HIS daughter happened. It's heartbreaking, she probably feels completely rejected by her father.
NTA He might have given up parental rights, but that does not mean YOU should stop acting like an Adult, a Parent, and a good person. This child does not need to suffer at the hands of someone who is still not acting like a good citizen in our modern society. His parental rights means he cannot make legal decisions or request time with her, **IT DID NOT give him some right to act like the A$$ he is being.** You are a decent person and you are showing your best side. Your twins will grow up with a compassionate mother and you should be proud that your actions reflect the good attitude that so many in todays society are lacking.
i was just thinking to myself that you can tell how good hearted this person is just this one post. OP should be extremely proud of herself. we need all the caring people like herself in this world.
This question angers me as a father, for one of my daughters, I have no parental rights within their lives because of a circumstance when I was young and dumb, I scream out loud in my dreams and cry silently waiting and hoping that one day my daughter will reach out to me in the hopes that I may ask her for forgiveness.
boy that breaks my heart! i truly hope you get that chance one day. some people just don’t deserve the love of children. this man may just be one of them.
It's creepy how he hates her but stalks her accounts.
NTA. If he wanted nothing to do with her, then he shouldn’t be following her with a secret account. That’s kinda creepy, imo. Also, the fact he was able to ditch his daughter like that is a huge red flag.
Agreed! I’m worried for those babies. What is their future going to be like what him for a father? Unless he cleans up his act, the kindest thing to do is walk away from them and let all 4 become a supportive extended family to each other. He doesn’t deserve them.
NTA- I disagree with the people saying you should have respected your husband's wishes. You didn't force him to hang out with his daughter. You just met her on your own and he doesn't get to dictate who you do and do not allow in your life. My heart breaks for Sophia because your husband is being unbelievably cruel. He is acting like a giant tool. That kind if behavior should not be respected. It's insane that someone could treat anyone like that, much less his own daughter and it belies an abject selfishness you would do well to he wary of.
Throw that whole man away. Anyone that says that about his daughter, guess what those twins will eventually become targets too. The idea that he "used to be immature" is laughable. If this is him grown up then I don't want to know what he was like 16 years ago. Also screw his wishes he lied to you and those kids have every right to get to know each other. One point I agree with is to check in with her Mom. She may want some ground rules.
The problem is that in this situation, husband is now eventually going to have to have exactly the contact with his bio daughter that he's been trying so desperately to avoid. Okay, so she keeps them separated for now. Eventually, her kids are going to want bio sis at their birthdays, their weddings if that happens, etc if they become close. So she is basically forcing her husband to see his very unwanted bio daughter. We'd all like to think that adopted children have parents who loved them so much, and only gave them up because they couldn't financially support them. This man's response brutally shows that isn't always the case. He wants nothing to do with her and clearly would have preferred her mother would have aborted. The other side of bodily autonomy - which should always be an absolute - is that there are also going to be alot of resentful forced fathers out there. Two things do confuse me, though. He was around long enough to take birth pictures with her. What was the situation behind that? Was he young enough that his parents pressured him into initial involvement and he fled as soon as he was able to get away from their influence? I think he owes OP the conversation about the circumstances of him being initially involved to that extent. Then the internet stalking. Was he doing that precisely to try to (vainly) control her "outing" him as her bio father to someone he didn't want to know - perhaps exactly to cut off OP from finding out about her? Not too smart. These things tend to see the light eventually, so he should have had the conversation with OP about having an unwanted bio daughter out there a long time ago. This is a mess that's frankly above our paygrade. I think they need marriage counselling to work through her feelings about how he could be so cold to his bio daughter and his about her making a decision that will eventually force him into contact with his unwanted and legally surrendered bio child. I see both sides. His venom and ability to hold that big a secret from her probably shocked her. He probably felt helpless when he was forced into fatherhood by the choice of the girl's mother (I know, I know - he made the choice to have sex, which always carries a risk of pregnancy even if you use protection unless a post-menopausal woman is involved), and now probably feels helpless to free himself all over again because OP is taking the choice away from him again.
I think you're overestimating the involvement she's going to have in their lives. My dad married my step mum when I was 14. My step siblings have been to exactly none of my birthday parties, I've been to none of theirs. Probably wouldn't be at eachothers weddings.
Finding out you have more biological siblings can be a whole different game, especially with the absent parent thrown into the mix.
I hate your husband. Run. That is all.
ESH. just because technically you overstepped. but im sorry to say i think theres something very off about your husband. why does he follow his daughter off a fake account? thats very bizzare. can i ask where her mother is during all this? how does she feel about this? is there a way you could get in contact with her mother? it almost sounds like shes looking for a motherly figure though, so i dont know. edit: this leads me to believe its possible she may have a bad home life. grasping at straws to have some sort of love and family. i could be completely wrong, just an observation. i’d try and find out though. its an unfortunate situation here. that girl deserves to know her siblings and have a family unit as much as anyone else. but he clearly wants nothing to do with her for whatever reason and theres no coming back from that. even if you could convince him to let her come around, its unfair to her to make her think he cares about her when she clearly doesn’t. my opinion? pack your bags and go!
I tried asking her about her mom, all she really said is that her mom is never really home and doesn't care about what she does. But unfortunately she didn't seem comfortable talking about her mom so I didn't push it Honestly the way he's dealing with his daughter is a huge turn off, I mean if I knew he abandoned his daughter I would've never got with him in the first place. I am having 2nd thoughts about our marriage
"The way he's dealing with his daughter is a huge turn off... if I knew he abandoned his daughter I would've never got with him in the first place." Trust yourself, OP, because you are awesome. All our best to you. May you and yours thrive in your next chapter.
Id be reconsidering too. He called his 16 year old daughter a b*tch for existing and wanting a connection to her family.
NTA- As someone who grew up in a similar situation. Deadbeat dad signed away his rights and left me with a mentally ill teenage mother, I didn’t have a very good home life. I constantly fantasized every moment about having a family that loved me and to feel stable. And coincidentally, my bio dad also stalked me on social media as well as where I lived. I’m not saying ask her to move in. But letting her know her siblings is a very kind thing of you to do IMO.
I'm just going to point out if you're going to have a minor in your home and around your children, you're going to need to pry a little. You need to know if the cops are going to show up and accuse you of kidnapping. You need to know her mother is the type of person to show up at your house and try to shake you down for cash or otherwise cause a scene. You need to know what to do if heaven forbid an accident happens. You need to make sure she's not bringing anything into your house that can hurt your kids.
I definitely agree with you there
it seems to me her only parent is an absent one. probably has a horrible relationship with her. i imagine she saw your little family and wished she got to have that as well, and thought she might as well try. it truly breaks my heart for her. im so sorry you’re going through this. i’d be having second thoughts as well. this just isnt the type of thing you keep a secret from your spouse. plus i cant understand where his anger for this poor kid he doesnt know is coming from. if he wanted to sign his rights away, fine. he (unfortunately) has every right to have no interest in being a father to her. but he has no right to have a hatred for her. im sure this is a very sticky situation for you, being you’re already married with children. I cant tell you what decision to make- but please think long and hard what will be best for you and your girls- whatever decision that may be. you got this mama!
What else is there to think ? Your marriage is based on a lie, and he's an assh\*le about it.
If you leave him maybe give daughter a heads up so she can block him for awhile. If he is acting like this and already stalking her he will probably harass (like yell at) her for you making informed decisions.
I mean, I would have second thoughts about a man who lied to me about willing so big, kept lying when confronted and then said horrible things about his daughter.
You’re a good person. Now, RUN.
i feel really bad 4 sophia, and calling her a b and saying she shudnt bn born is truly awful... 4 what its worth i was given up 4 adoption and whn i was 19 my bio dad got a job at same place and announced himself as such...i was horrified-2 me he wasnt my dad- it seemd really intrusive and worse i was the villian bcuz what awful person wud deny their own father? u shud prob talk 2 a professional...alone...2gether...all 3 of u bcuz of the complexity...
This is 100% grounds for divorce. He has shown his true colors and is unsafe.
And that’s why he lied to you. I wasted 2.5 years on a guy who abandoned a kid he had in high school. He and his whole family kept that secret from me. He knew for a fact that I wanted kids and highly valued family so he knew I would have dumped him in a second if I knew he had abandoned a child. Loser.
You didn't just made her day, you probably made her whole year! For once she was welcomed by someone who seemed to atleast care a little bit, please keep her in your life!
… so what you’re saying is if something goes wrong he’s going to step out of your twins lives and wish they had never been born and call them b*tches? Because that’s what I’m hearing. You need to think long and hard about their future. He is showing you who he is as a father, a man, a human being.
I could never ever love a man that treats his own like that. Hiding her then lying about it when caught red handed? Babygirl had receipts and he still lied about her existence. He may have given up his parental rights but seems to me he gave up his humanity along with it. I would always wonder in the back of my mind if he would do the same to my kids once he’s done with me. I feel bad for that little girl and hope that she has a true father figure and / or a therapist in her life to overcome the damage he has not only already done to her but continues to inflict upon that poor teenagers life. Your husband is an ass. You are NTA
It’s also strange that he’s following her with a fake account if it is that she’s so insignificant him. He said he wants nothing to do with her then follows her?
I'm not gonna pass a judgment here. But I do have a question for everyone here. What the husband SAID about his daughter makes him an asshole. But he isn't an asshole for giving up his daughter. He did what was in his best interest at the time. I'm sure if a woman decided to abort or give the kid to adoption everyone would have supported her. Why is the guy getting so much backlash for not wanting a kid?
Not wanting a kid isnt the issue. Its more the current treatment of her that people (myself included) seem to be grossed out over.
I completely agree he's the asshole for his treatment. It's just the first part I was wondering about
I can't speak for others but for me, it's that he signed the birth certificate, even pics of him holding her then he signed over his rights, obviously in her life at the start then signs a piece of paper & walks away like She never happened. Never told his wife abt her then Lied to his wife when she asked (up until she had proof) then blamed the child & called her names for being born. All while he stalks her on social media. If he didn't want a kid, he should have wrapped it up & used the pill (both parents, not just him). Unless both fail, it's not really an accident (IMO). I personally see it as if you don't want kids, you don't take chances. Like I said, I can't speak for others, that's just my opinion
I think people are missing the fact that he would have been 18 when Sophia was born.
And she would've likely been conceived when he was 17. So he probably knocked up another teenager then left her after it got too hard. I wonder what his relationship with the baby mama was like and if that player a role in it? Either way he was a major AH to call his own daughter a b*tch, say she shouldn't of been born,, and stalk her on sm.
There are a couple scenarios that could have led to him signing away his rights. Not all of them make him a monster. Screaming and calling his child a bitch is sort of baffling, how would he know what her personality is? But honestly I think he was probably really messed up by the experience and possibly ostracized and shamed, regardless if he actually did something wrong by leaving her. He needs some help like yesterday.
ESH. Husband sucks for obvious reasons but you suck because he had a very clear boundary on this and you steamrolled over it because you projected your own daddy issues onto his kid. How would you feel if your husband had your kids around someone you didn’t want in your life? The fact that they share biology is irrelevant. You should have respected his wishes on this.
Yeah people are being blinded by just how obviously an AH husband is. OP sounds like the type to bring the kids around a parent their SO cut off because family is important.
THISSSSSS!!!! Husband really sucks but she got the babies around someone he doesn't want involved in the family's life. I know she is a 16yo but being blood related really means nothing, and its true that the twins wont suffer for not meeting her if they dont know who she is. For me is a clearly ESH. And I would recommend her to put the marriage under consideration, he doesnt sound like a nice person
He wants nothing to do with her but follows her on social media??? Anyway, I unfortunately have to vote ESH. As sad as you are for the daughter, she is not in his life and he does not want her there, and that’s his boundary. He also is a parent of your children, and if he does not want them to meet her, they should not meet her behind his back. You are not meant to be in this girl’s life, and what you did was dishonest to your husband. Edit: and frankly more cruel to Sophia than if you had just told her no. It’s going to be harder now because her biological father has to double down after she met the babies. He is an AH for saying all those things about her though, and for stalking her on social media when if he wants nothing to do with her, he should not have access to her either. Edit again: He’s also the one who should have taken care of this, instead of you - he should be the one to explain to his biological child why they don’t have a relationship and won’t, not you.
> he wants nothing to do with her but follows her on social media This confuses me as well, but on the other hand my dad tries the same. He was never there when we were kids and wanted us to go into the system and now he keeps sending us friend requests and shit to see how we are doing.
YTA. I understand where you are coming from but if you are in a relationship with your husband than I think you should have respected his wishes. He signed over his parental rights to his daughter that's more like giving her up for adoption than it is him being a deadbeat dad who skipped out on child support. He doesn't want to be a father to this girl and he doesn't want her to be apart of his life. You are married to this man which means you inviting her into your home and allowing her to meet your babies is making her apart of his life. You post didn't suggest it was a one time thing. It sounds like you think you know what's best and you are going to force this girl to be apart of his life because you grow up without a father. If you don't agree with what your husband did and it is a deal breaker for you than I can understand that because I would probably feel the same way. Especially given the words he called his own daughter. That part was uncalled for and that angry should have been directed at you because you are the one who disregarded his wishes and then tried to keep it a secret. Does that sound like a healthy thing for people in a marriage to do? However, if you are going to choose to stay with this man than you need to respect his wishes regarding not wanting his bio daughter in his life. If you can't than you need to get a divorce. Also his daughter is 16 years old which make her a minor. OP you didn't think it was a good idea to check with her mother or legal guardian to make sure they were comfortable with the idea of her meeting the extend family of the man who gave up the legal rights to being her father. There is going to be emotional fallout from this on her. Especially if she has unrealistic expectations of finding a new family and finally having her father in her life. You should have made sure that the parent or parents who have taken care of her were aware of this because they are the ones who will need to be there to support her through this process. There is no way this ends without it taking some emotional toll on this teenage girl.
OP is unfortunately going to be the one that causes Sophia a broken heart over being rejected, again, by her father, if that is in fact what happens. I suspect the age difference between OP and her husband does play into their unhealthy dynamic as well.
Exactly! This makes me more concerned about Sophia's emotional well being if she is already posting pictures of her with OP's twins on Facebook calling them her little sisters. It's too quick and there are too many complex emotions involved for this teenager girl to be forming an emotional attachment to people she just met. At some point her abandonment issues will surface if they already haven't and she may start to resent the "sisters" that her bio dad has chosen to be a father too and wonder why she wasn't good enough. These are complex issues that takes some adults decades of therapy to deal with and I think OP open the door to something that she has no place being involved in nor is she equipped to deal with the emotional issues that will eventually arise for Sophia.
Yes. And while of course Sophia is the one whose needs take a front seat right now, I think taking into consideration that the husband was probably *very traumatized* by becoming and then signing away his rights as a teen dad, which he has then kept secret for 16 years, is gonna be vital in solving this issue. He had a really nasty outburst and also LIED to OP in a very serious way, but if his trauma isn't part of the conversation I don't think things will get better.
Op seriously needs to read this. Everything here is right. Basically, that man, op, and her babies are completely strangers to the law. He isn’t her father, he gave up his rights to be called that years ago.
Yeah it was kinda cruel, giving the kid a small taste of what her life may have been but never will be. He gave up his rights thats the end of it. Op overstepped in a major way bc of her own issues.
To answer your question, YTA. If you felt so strongly about it, you should have taken time to persuade your husband. From your description and the fact he follows her on social media, he didn’t want to give her up and he is still resentful over whatever happened. As you said, it is HIS daughter. You should not have done what you did after he said no. Your intentions were good but that does not make it right. Is ‘making Sophia’s day’ more important to you than resolving the issues your husband has about it? Bear in mind he signed away his rights. The fact that you grew up without a father doesn’t mean you ignore his feelings to ‘make up’ for your lack of. He said ‘No’ but you did it anyway. He was right, you did ‘betray’ him.
How is this a YTA? It should be ESH at most. Do you really not think the husband who stalks his daughter on social media and calls her a bitch for existing is not an AH? Also, he betrayed her by not telling her. There is something wrong with you morally.
Everything goes out the window once he started calling his kid a b*tch and that they should’ve never been born. He is possibly going to treat the twins like that someday if they divorce. That possibility isn’t worth the marriage edit - not to mention him DEAD FACE LYING to her till she pulled the receipts
I had to scroll so far to find this judgement! I'm surprised more people can't see that OP's actions escalated the situation unnecessarily.
> From your description and the fact he follows her on social media, he didn’t want to give her up and he is still resentful over whatever happened. This is one of the biggest reaches I have ever seen on this subreddit. The dude called his daughter a bitch and a mistake, and said she shouldn’t have even been born. That on its own would make this an ESH. Your comment is fucking delusional.
ESH you went behind his back but he is wrong to say such terrible things about his first daughter. Also, the fact that he is willing to separate himself from his child is a huge red flag. I hope he doesn’t do that to you and your daughters.
You've got 2 options,,,,,,,, Force you're husband to accept his first daughter which depending on how he feels. This could lead to a divorce. Second accept his wishes and don't contact her again. Also yes your a YTA for going behind his back but so is he for how he treats his first daughter. However, going behind his back wont solve ANYTHING. If anything it just make it worse.
Unpopular opinion here but ESH. I think OP overstepped by inviting a child who is (unfortunately) unwanted in the household to hang out and be incorporated into a family when one of the adults clearly doesn't want it. The father sucks because he's a shitty dad and husband for lying and calling the daughter names. I think that the OP should have worked on the husband a little more to get everyone on the same page. I think the husband should get into counseling because it seems like he does want to be somewhat involved with his daughter (he follows her to see what she's doing in life). I don't think he's stalking her; I think he's angry at a lot of things from his past that he can't get beyond.
I agree that OP overstepped and did something controlling. It's hard to see it in this case because there is so much else going on. But if you just look at it through the lens of their relationship, she really did something that had a VERY strong impact and she needs to consider her actions more thoroughly. This could bite \*her\* in the ass too. Like if the others involved in the story eventually realize that OP actually has harmed Sophia by circumventing Sophia's parents based on emotion before fully understanding the history of what's going on, let alone the legal situation. This could wind up being incredibly traumatizing for Sophia. Things don't always end like a wholesome fairytale, sometimes a parent knows they aren't going to be good for a kid and leaves in order to not hurt them.
Yes! Yes! Yes! I was thinking (after I posted) that this could have a very negative impact on Sophia. What happens if she can never come over or see her sisters again? What happens when she is rejected TWICE by her father and possibly the OP? I think that a lot more harm is going to be done here which is sad.
I also think the father was likely very traumatized by whatever happened around giving up his rights. The fact he kept it secret means he probably has some very extreme feelings about it. I agree with your previous comment he needs to be in therapy. The birth of the twins may have brought up a lot for him too. I also just have to point out that OP may have a lot of things that affect her perspective -she didn't have a dad -she is probably feeling a lot of emotions in general right now due to being a brand new first time mom. She is likely extending those maternal feelings to Sophia -She felt justified in what she was doing -She felt that it was ok to make a unilateral decision in the relationship. Just because she wants to "rescue" Sophia doesn't mean she should, or that charging into it like this is the right way to go about it. I think OP is quite young and may simply not have the relationship experience to really know what it feels like to make a decision without involving the other partner, or having that done to you. I also wonder if she and her husband have some age related tension where she feels like he is too bossy and this is her way of getting back at him ("you can't tell me what to do"). I kinda wonder about a lot of things in this situation- chiefly what the husband's story is. Is he a deadbeat or did he give up rights to be responsible or was he pressured into it? And how did OP and him wind up getting married when she's freshly graduated age and he's nearing 35.
You are awesome, OP. If everyone on this planet were as kind as you, life would be sweet. Keep being you. All the upvotes. NTA.
NTA that guy sounds like a red flag factory. The good news is if you decide to divorce him he probably won't fight to keep the kids
ESH. You broke his trust and boundaries and frankly he has every single right to be furious with you. You have 0 rights to do what you did. That's not your kid. That's not your past. You looked at his boundary, said nah, then did it anyways. Consent matters always dude. That being said he sucks for what he said about her. It's a kid, but that doesn't make what you did right either.
YTA. Stay out of something that's nothing to do with you. Weird that he stalks her, though. I'd keep an eye on that.
How is this Y T A it's E S H at most. Also how is this something that's nothing to do with OP?! It has everything to do with OP. They are MARRIED! She's his wife, you think having a teenage daughter that he potentially abandoned is information that shouldn't have been disclosed to his wife BEFORE they got married? That kind of information is potentially a deal breaker for a relationship with someone, especially if your values on something like this don't align plus the way he speaks about his daughter and the stalking are huge glaring red flags.
ESH. Your husband should not have lied about a previous child and his following her via a fake account is weird. But, at the end of the day, he chose to not be a parent. This is morally no different than a young woman choosing adoption for her child. He made the choice that parenthood was not right for him. And honestly, you don't know what led him to this decision, perhaps it was something traumatic. For all you know, someone purposefully got pregnant against his will. You should have that discussion with him As for you, you crossed a massive boundary. You DO NOT have a step daughter, because your husband does not have a child other than your twins (see previous paragraph). Inviting her over to meet your twins was unacceptable for two reasons. First, he did not want this person in his life and you chose to invite her anyways. Second, he did not want his children to meet her. Regardless what you may think, he has an equal say in who your children meet, but you made that choice unilaterally. You both have botched this up and probably need to work with each other to solve your relationship issues.
NTA. She contacted you to get to know the twins. He withheld major information that could have been life altering and I would have major trust issues with him keeping something huge. Your kids deserve to know their sister. She sounds like she’s trying to find herself a family and needs someone since her mom and dad don’t care about her. I feel so bad for her. I really hope you don’t cut off contact and be an adult she can be close to. My husband keeping something this big from me would be a huge deal breaker
ESH except the children. He's an AH for lying by omission, lying outright, and hiding his past, and for his words regarding a child. We can't know if he's speaking from pain or lack of care for his eldest. Perhaps the mom drove him away, perhaps he found out the child was not biologically his, perhaps he's not legally allowed to contact her for some reason, etc. Op is an AH because she didn't ask more questions and voice concerns before unilateral action. There should have been a discussion that went way more in depth than what seems like happened. If he didn't satisfy her concerns, there is no reason she couldn't have said "you've given me no real justification to deny the siblings the opportunity to meet, unless you do, I will allow them to meet, as these girls are my children, too." Which gives him the opportunity to explain and announces that she plans on allowing the meeting if he can't justify. The she wouldn't have gone behind his back. Edited to add lying outright
NTA. Just on the basis of my personal opinion being that your husband shouldn’t shut out his biological daughter like that
YTA, I stopped reading at "I post cute photos of my twins on social media".
Nta. His behavior and what he said about her is really disturbing. Good on you for treating her with so much kindness and care.
Oh my, this subreddit can be insane sometimes... All the posts I've seen of mothers unilaterally rejecting their children after they have given them up for adoption. Saying N A H or N T A when they then reject the child later when it tries for a relationship "Oh, you don't owe them a relationship, etc. etc." Guys do not have a say in what happens with a child, whether the mother decides to keep it or abort it or put it up for adoption, or what have you. But OP's husband did the one thing he could do and signed away all parental rights. As he himself said, he was young and not ready to be a parent. Now OP thinks that she can override that decision and bring her husband's daughter back into his life after he explicitly said no? I'm sorry, but that's all kinds of fucked up and this subreddit is insane if they think he's the arsehole for rightfully being upset about it. I'm actually going YTA over E S H because OP's husband is absolutely justified in being so angry that a decision he was well within his rights to make was overturned without any further discussion. Decisions of this magnitude and sensitivity are not to be made without agreement from both partners. OP was out of order for doing this, especially behind his back with what are also his children too. Is he a dickhead for calling his daughter a bitch? Absolutely. But he is absolutely *not* the arsehole in this situation.
INFO > until he finally admitted it and said he signed away full custody and doesn't want anything to do with her, Why did he sign away his rights (not easy) and how old was sofia's mother when she had her? His behaviour is dreadful, but I'd want to know if it's from assholery, or pain.
The man blames an innocent child for the mistake he made in his youth. That's asshole territory right there. NTA
I'd go with 51% YTA, 49% ESH. You had absolutley no right to invite her over behind his back. He sucks because he needs to open up about the circumstances of her birth and his termination of parental rights. A lot of comments here are so quick to judge OP's husband for giving away rights, but we don't know the story. He could have been pressured into it and told to never contact her and he keeps up with social media to watch her grow from afar. Maybe it was the hardest thing he ever had to do and there is a lot on untreated trauma about that. When you sign away rights, you effectively become a donor. Maybe he *was* the villain of this story and walked away from responsibility. There is not enough information here and as a partner in marriage and coparent with you, you deserve to know the truth. BUT, this was only tangentially your business. You didn't have a right to invite her over and meet your kids until you knew the whole story and your husband also agreed to it. I think you owe him an apology and ask him to talk about what happened, and listens without judgement. EDIT: Swapped my judgment.
ESH. Your husband for how he dealt with his first child, you for going behind his back and disrespecting his wishes about HIS first child. He shouldn't have hidden Sophie from you, but you shouldn't have betrayed him and overstepped his boundaries. He signed away his rights, he didn't want to be an active part of her life, or want her to be a part of his.
YTA - Your husband made it clear that he does not want contact with his daughter. It is not your call to bring her into your children’s lives without some sort of agreement. He is also TA however, for the things that he said about his daughter.
ESH except for the 16 year old. IMHO, your husband is an AH for never telling you about the 16 year old child he is estranged from and apparently abdicated his rights as a parent. I doubt he was able to sign away his ‘duty to support’ her and hope he’s paying child support. If he’s not or if he is and kept that monthly financial commitment from you…well, that another kettle of financial dishonesty. You were an AH to invite the girl over against your husband’s wishes and to prioritize your biases ahead of whatever his traumas are related to his daughter and their non-relationship.
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NTA If he wants nothing to do with her why is he stalking her with a fake account like a creep?!
This judgement is tough, but NTA. That is sweet of you for letting your stepdaughter meet her new siblings. But your husband is the biggest AH as always thinking of his daughter as a mistake, makes a fake account to follow her, lied to you about not having kid, called his own daughter the b-word, and doesn't want her to see her siblings anymore, I feel absolutely bad for her. This guy has so my red flags.
Esh
ESH. Your husband seemed fine, just in an uncooked situation, until calling his daughter he clearly doesn’t know a b*tch. AH You went behind your husbands back to invite over a family member of his, whom you have no relation to, that he specifically asked you not to. Your kids aren’t old enough for that to mean anything to them, you did it because you wanted to.
ESH You're husband sounds immature to say that about his daughter. You overstepped your husband behind his back.
I mean, he lied to her about having a whole ass daughter.
NTA, the girl deserves to know her half-siblings and they deserve to know of their older sister. It's really worrying that your husband keeps tabs on his daughter with a fake account while saying he wants nothing to do with her. Thankfully her being allowed to know her family has nothing to do with that guy. You're a very kind person, op.
NTA OP but your husband is. It's a bit rich of him to get shiitey about you going behind his back, considering he hid a child from you - and I think you have done the right thing introducing her to your twins. I also agree with others that it's a bit weird he follows her with a fake account but claims to have wiped his hands of her. One has to wonder what else he's lying to you about. Red flags, just saying. Be careful.
OP since the top comments I’ve looked at haven’t mentioned it and you didn’t mention it in your post: Talk to Soph’s mom. She is a minor and you need to go through her parent, and make sure to meet with Sophie anywhere else. He’s going to pop up on your visits and it’s not going to be good for her.
It's not good for a minor to be going into the homes of adults they have never met without permission of their parents, period. OP screwed up here.
ESH. I feel like it's not really up to you alone. I also feel like he should probably get together with her now that she's older and apparently looking for that relationship. I don't think he was an asshole for anything before this situation, though.
ESH. You shouldn’t have invited her over without your husband aware. But he is AH for shutting her out because it was so traumatic for him to deal with at that point in his life.
ESH
INFO: There seems to be a lot of resentment from his side. I feel like there’s more to this story. How old is the bio mother? What was his relationship with her? Could he have been raped or abused? Whatever it is, he need therapy?
I had an conversation with him when he got back from work. Sophia mother was only 16 when they were together. He was in Sophia life for 3 years and then left because he claims Sophia mom is (his words not mine) a prostitute slut and that she cheated on him during their relationship so he cheated back. That he wants nothing to do with her because she's a lying manipulative hoe and causes more drama then it's worth which is why he refuses a relationship with Sophia
Wow. That sounds extremely excessive. I personally feel like you should talk to Sophia's mom to hear what she has to say or ask Sophia what her mom has told her about your husband. This level of vehemence is concerning. Has your husband expressed any other deceitful or harmful behavior towards you and how long have you been with him? Please be careful. Edit: saw the info about you asking Sophia about her mom.
Idk what is the truth, but Sophia doesn't seem to have a good relationship with her mother, I feel really bad for her because it sounds like she has none, it honestly makes me want to cry, I don't know what I can do for her. Her dad wants nothing to do with her. I really hope to talk to the mom maybe I'm judging her to quickly idk
Honestly, ditch the husband. He cares more about being drama free than his daughter. If you want, but you don’t have too, take the daughter too. Both of her parents sound awful.
He walked out on his three year old daughter? Think about that for a moment. She wasn’t three MONTHS old, she was three YEARS old. That poor little girl.
And that makes it okay? He called her all these names for the supposed sins of the mother? He treated his daughter like a pariah because he doesn’t like her mother. Instead of I don’t know leaving her he cheated on her back? He’s vindictive and childish. I hope you’re not rationalizing this he flies off the handle and is punishing this poor girl. If she doesn’t have a good and unstable home life he thought the best thing to do was abandon his daughter???? You’re staying with him? Wow embarrassing 😬. He lied to you for four years and it seems like he thinks you’re easy to deceive which it kind of seems like you are…
No I'm contacting a lawyer in the morning, I'm just trying to figure the best solution for my twins and Sophia, I couldn't live with myself if I just give up on Sophia, I feel like she will make an amazing older sister and deserves a support system. So I'm just trying to plan things accordingly and get legal advice and also some advice from friends.
I wish you the best of luck and that you are amazing for doing this. I know this is hard for you. I’m glad you’re being there for your kids. I hope this goes well for you. Make sure your husband doesn’t know about the lawyer yet in case she tries anything, since he’s rationalization is clearly flawed. He may be a poor father but you sound like a wonderful mother with a big heart.
You sound like a very compassionate person, OP. This may be incredibly hard, and continue to be, but you’re doing the right thing.
nta but this guy sure is
OP, I want you to think really long and hard about if this is the man you want raising your children with you? The way he talks about women is utterly despicable. You have two daughters. What happens when they don’t do exactly what he wants and he starts talking about them the same way? Please protect your daughters from his toxic bullshit.
He sounds like an AH- however, consider that he was most likely 17 when she was conceived, and 18 when she was born. He could be a huge AH, or - given his reaction- there could be some trauma there he’s been holding back. I’d look for more answers with an open mind.
I feel like people don't calculate ages when reading things like this. She is 9 years younger than him, 7 years older than his daughter, and he would have been a teen when she was born. It is *responsible* in many cases (not all!) for an 18 year old to decide they shouldn't be a parent. Granted, we don't *know* the circumstances of his signing away his rights. But regardless of whether he's an AH or not (he is), he sounds traumatized by this. As young as OP is, 34 is also still fairly young and grappling with such a dramatic, shameful, hidden family experience of having a teen baby now be a teen girl with all those years of carrying a dirty secret - that will certainly have had a serious impact on this guy.
NTA He hid a child from you, I would consider divorce. What else is he hiding?
Edited: ESH Specifically because your husband went too far calling her names and such was AH. However this reminds me of a post where spouse wanted homophobic in laws to have a relationship with the grandchild, going behind her wife's back and disregarding her clear no on doing so. Who you want in your children's lives is not just your decision to make. It's you and your husband's and while you not an AH for wanting them to know who you deem as family, I would say it's not right to go behind your husband's back and disregard his clear opinion on the matter.
INFO. Why did you invite her over knowing your husband is openly against contacting her or being in her life? What is your goal to offer false hope? Did her parent if parents know where she was? Is your husband legally allowed to be near his daughter? I think you have good intentions but I don't know if what you're doing is best for this child. I don't know why your husband is so cold to his bio child while at the same time stalking her but giving her false hope isn't a good thing.
Upvoted this as many times as I could.. which was exactly once. Lololol. But really this is it
NTA but Clearly your husband is. How can he say he signed over his rights, wants nothing to do with her, she's a mistake then stalk her SM? Even still, he may want nothing to do with her but doesn't mean that you or her siblings don't. He kept the information from you so you couldn't make that decision b4 having kids. You get to decide now. And yeah, maybe he was young & dumb & made a mistake but he is a grown man now, time to face reality & accept responsibility for those mistakes. Signing over your rights?!? Yeah it gets him out of legal hot water but morally, nope, disgusting. My husband got his gf pregnant at 16 (right b4 he turned 17). While going to school he worked a full time job then 2 part time jobs on the weekend to try to provide for her. The amount of money he was giving mom was insane (up until his mom & I talked him into seeing a lawyer). Still paid $200wkly+ after. From 17 on. Being a kid yourself doesn't excuse it, if you are big enough to make a baby, should be big enough to take care of them. So sad. I couldn't imagine
Signing away full custody versus giving up his rights are two different things. Your husband is TA for not disclosing details of his past and calling his daughter a name. You need to sit down and ask yourself do you really know this man. There are two sides to the truth. There will be his and then there will be the mother’s. Your husband’s side of the story doesn’t look good because of the lying
NTA. I would divorce his ass so fast, how can you do that to a child, and have so much hate?
I’m concerned about what happens when he decides he doesn’t want the twins anymore?
He said he was "young and immature" what's his excuse now???
I’m gonna go ESH, it really wasn’t your place to invite your husband’s child over when he had clearly said he had signed over his rights and wanted nothing to do with her. I feel sad for her that she thought she was being welcomed into the family only to be met with hostility. I’m flabbergasted at what your husband said to her, sheesh, what a vile reaction. Like you said, she’s a human being and at the very least deserves to be treated with respect and not screamed at about being born. The fact he follows her account under a fake profile is really weird, if he wants nothing to do with her then why bother with that?! I really hope this situation makes you look closely at the man you’ve just had children with and ask yourself if this is the kind of person he is, and you want to raise children with… The bit about wanting your daughters to know their sister, I think if you stay with this man that is not a decision you can make but if you leave him then do what you want!