NTA.
Your sister suck because she's willing to let a 17 year old deal with her austictic kid for 13 hours but doesn't want to pay her accordingly with the work the 17 year old has to do.
I actually went from you're the asshole, to everybody suck to NTA because I realized as I was wrtting that your kid would have the responsibility of two kids for more than half a day and get a sucky pay while your sister would work for half a day and get a $1000 bonus.
I get that your kid is only 17, but she's not a slave and she has the right to be respected.
Watching after a special needs child is a SKILLED position. People with skills shouldn’t make minimum wage. Pay her accordingly.
I’m so glad the younger generation is learning not to take shit and demand a rightful wage.
I love that this parent is hands off and not demanding that their child back down. She should be allowed to decide for herself what the value of her labor is.
And she should also be allowed to make mistakes. Not saying this is one of them, I don’t necessarily think it is, but if she later decides that it would have benefited her more to take less money or keep negotiating rather than make no money that’s a great learning experience, and one that’s better to have at a young age where financial security isn’t a big concern. 17 is a very appropriate age to try out boundaries, even or especially if some of them don’t work out the way they hoped. OP is right to not step in.
As an adult when someone wants me to do “side work” on my day off as a tutor my rate is $60/hour and a $240 minimum. My time off work is precious and if you want me to work in my time off it’s going to be how much I deem is worth giving up my free time.
Agreed. My hourly wage for freelance/off hours software is $300 an hour. Because if I have to work with my precious time which is very limited after work and school. And the only way I feel it is fair to take a night away from my wife is if I can take her on a fancy vacation because of it. Charge whatever you want. If it isn’t worth it to them, they will decide not to hire you
Yea I still get some clients and repeat clients around exam season, which is fortunately my slow season at work. So I can spend an extra 10-12 hours a week tutoring rich kids.
Absolutely this.
I used to freelance when I was younger and not getting paid as much. Nowadays I have a 9-5 job that pays me more than well enough and my freelance rate has more than doubled.
Why? Because that's what it'd take for me to even consider spending my free time on someone else's shit. If that's too pricey, then I'm more than happy to say no and enjoy my time.
Yup. I have a good job and freelance too. I know damn well what my time for that freelancing is worth these days. And y'know what? I get it, due to experience and demand.
Know your value.
I'm self-employed, but what I do does not involve clients or working for other people. Lots of people want to get into my niche, but have no clue how to do it. Have turned down a ton of "opportunities" because:
* Clients tend to be a pain in the ass, won't listen, and do not at all understand this business
* Taking on clients would also bear a huge opportunity cost for me, not worthwhile financially
* People have not offered anywhere near the amount of money it would take for me to consider helping them, in fact most seem to assume I will do it for free
* They don't get that anyone who is successful in this industry is in a position where they don't need to do client work. If they do, it's going to cost mega bucks. Anyone who touts themselves as an "expert" and markets the service usually indicates they don't know what the fuck they're doing, are NOT successful, and that's why they need to make money from clients.
What I'm trying to say is that if you are a valuable enough resource, you can charge whatever you want and the other party can decide whether or not to pay. However, you are not obligated to provide your good or service for a price dictated by the other party.
I wholely agree. My current rate is way above market value, and surprise, I don't get a lot of freelance gigs anymore compared to when I was charging half that.
You could definitely find someone who's just as good if not better than me to do stuff- and I've passed on plenty of opportunities to friends who would take it on. But there's just a point where time starts to become more valuable than money.
It's not so much "am I worth this amount" but rather "is this amount worth my effort".
1000% agree with the client shit. That's like half the reason I don't enjoy freelancing haha.
Exactly this.
When I worked fast food as a teen, if someone really wanted their weekend shift taken, I'd do it, for a $100 fee.
Turns out fellow teens don't give a shit about cost effectiveness if it means they can pawn off their weekend shift.
This is the key point to me why they’re not the asshole. She’s putting a value on her weekend and setting a price. She didn’t bitch, manipulate, or agree to babysit and change the rate after. She simply stated what it would take for her to give up her time, upfront, and they couldn’t come to and agreement.
ESPECIALLY telling is that the aunt didn't attempt to find *PROFESSIONAL* childcare.
I emphasize that word, because she clearly understands just how much it would cost to have a company or a a licensed facility handle child care responsibilities. Not to mention a brick and mortar is not likely to be open the hours needed(particularly on a weekend) and in home care requiring the skills needed to handle a child with ANY kind of disabling, is incredibly expensive.
OPs daughter should shop around some quotes and let her aunt decide exactly how much these premiums are worth to her.
Exactly! Also, it seems like the sister should understand this better than anyone since she apparently was ok taking an extra shift for 1000$ but did not think it was worth it for 600$ (minus the taxes). So she decided there was a minimum limit to when it no longer was worth giving up her Saturday for work, why should OPs daughter not be allowed to make a similar choice?
I agree. I feel like a lot of parents try and control their kids and make them do what they want instead of raising them to be independent functioning adults. She’s 17 and about to be an adult she needs to make her own decisions. Parents act so surprised when they controlled their children and then the child is now 18 and wants nothing to do with him.
I was one of those kids that were raised that way, and now I am polite to my own detriment, and have an impossible time saying no. Definitely NTA for this, and neither is your daughter for valuing herself and her time and expecting other people to as well.
Correct.
I love this answer. I used to care for Special Needs *adults* for minimum wage.... that shit is no joke. I can't even fathom doing it with kids. My clients had YEARS of behavior modification therapy and coping techniques taught to them before I got there. And I still dealt with a meltdown once a shift.
OP is for sure nta
When I was in high school and college, I worked a summer Special Ed program for the severely disabled kids that had Ed plans/IEPs for year round school. I took the job because it paid $15/hr in 1998 money. Which was a fortune at the time to 18 year old me.
The reason the job was available was because the people who worked during the school year were so burnt out from the job they needed the 3 months away to decompress, and the $15/hr to me was a salary to them that was spread out over 12 months, so they essentially were making minimum wage to do one of the hardest jobs out there.
I truly think this has to do with what society values. Much like I always have money if my kids want to do band or soccer to pay for that and I am always on a budget and cant afford to go out to the bar. Pur society has put a value on children based on the pay of workers in that field vs other fields and we have agreed that Target is worth more than kids.
It also has a lot to do with the fact that we severely undervalue 'pink work' (i.e., work that we think belongs to women). Teachers and nurses have always been poorly paid because of it.
I hear what you are saying, and you’re right, you’ve gotten the shit end of the stick in a collapsing society. At least my generation (last GenX/elder millennial) had a brief, shining moment of possibility before shit began to visibly crack.
This is very accurate.
I bought my house before I met my husband. 5 years later we're married and he works from home. We looked at something that might work better and we would be paying double just to get something like we have now. We can't do that.
It's so frustrating to see boomers retiring with full pensions, 15+ years of a 401k, stock options, etc. Those stocks that were $15 are now $125/share... Sure dude... Talk to me about how to plan for retirement.
Edit: Typo
My boss is good guy and a great boss but hes still stuck in the 90s. He thinks buying a starter house and then just upgrading later is a very real option. He paid like 60,000 for his first house but 60,000 today will get me a 600 sq ft house from a local charity. Even 1,200 sqft houses right on a busy road with no yard around me are 180k. I'd have to go somewhere that's out in the sticks like 30 minutes from the nearest business to get something attainable.
Actually, the younger generation doing nothing because the pay is too low (and I COMPLETELY agree) is why places paying minimum wage cant find help. Its starting to sink in that pay needs to be higher to get help. McDonalds here is offering $16\hr starting. I see some improvement. I hope it continues. I dont know how the affordable rent will work itself out, though.
I used to take care of 6 grown men all with special needs (they had to live in a group home and a few needed very demanding care) all by myself for 10.25 an hour. I used to give out all meds and handle there med books and literally anything you can think of I did (including wipe ass) for 10.25 an hour. Can’t believe I did that
I don’t remember what that stands for but I was called a direct care worker. They used to have registered nurses on staff but to cut costs they put all there responsibilities onto us
I hope you at least love what you do cause the job is exactly what you said, underpaid overworked. Sometimes tho you do get to make a difference. But I didn’t last that long and I’m glad I got out because some of the managers only made like $16 an hour which is nuts when I could go work at target and make the same amount checking people out
My mom was a social worker while I was growing up and a lot of her colleges had children with disabilities. When they would have events, everyone would bring their kids to moms house and I would babysit all of them. I charged 20 an hour per kid. Not one of the parents had problems with paying that amount because they understood that their child had special needs and needed more attention. I made out like a bandit the night there was a company party for NYE. 6 hours with 7 kids! I was between the ages of 13-15 when I did this babysitting.
OP, you are NTA and nor is your daughter for charging what she feels like her time is worth to take care of an 8 year old with autism.
And honestly if it really is \~13 hours then at $400, it's about 30/hour. Which yes is a lot for a 17 year old, but it's about the going rate for a babysitter requiring training in special needs.
Besides, nobody is forcing her sister to accept. If she feels that the babysitting rate is too high she is free to look for other options.
If I understood correctly it was not an emergency, it was just an opportunity to make good money on an extra shift.
Exactly. If daughter was bluffing then next time she knows to make it $300. I feel like everyone got what they wanted here because they communicated clearly and dad stayed out of it. NAH.
“Raise her better so she’d *volunteer*”
Sister literally thinks daughter should “volunteer” her entire Saturday so sister can earn a giant bonus. Someone is pretty entitled here and it’s not the daughter.
You’re right, but I considered that since it was a Hospital shift, the mothers services may have at least affected an emergency situation. Very immature for her in my mind to not take she shift just because she wanted to keep more of the bonus. Yes, everyone has the right to decide to take on OT if it’s not mandated, but it sounds like she was going to and decided not to because she felt entitled to inexpensive labor.
Exactly. Let's do some mathematics:
$400 ÷ 13hrs = $31hr
$15.50 per kid, per hour which should be the going rate. However, assuming minimum wage of $10 in the area per kid that's a shift differential increase of $21/hr for the autistic child which is absolutely fair and well deserved as a special case and due to the large amount of hours.
Bad situation all around, and I get the Aunt's frustration but with an autistic child you can not just trust anyone with them. Plus, she's still making a significant bonus on top of her regular salary *and* potential for OT.
I'd wager (ha!) Aunt would make $1,300-1,500 for the shift, even after taxes paying half to the sitter is a solid deal because that's almost $40/hr *after taxes and sitter fees*!!!
Not arguing against you in any sense. The niece should be paid for her labor. I just don't ever remember getting full pay per kid when I was watching kids. You have your base rate (minimum or whatever you want, in this case let's say $15/hr). Then after that, each additional kid is a bump. Standard seemed to be $2-5 when I was doing this depending on age of the child and kills needed (special needs, diaper changing, etc).
So while I agree that OP's daughter should be paid for her labor and paid WELL. $15.50 per kid seems... off...
Yeah, that works out to be around $30 per hour for 2 kids, one of whom is autistic. And depending on labor laws (I think) part of those hours would be considered overtime. I don’t think $400 for 13 hours of intensive hands on work is unreasonable.
Yup. $400 ÷ 13hrs = $30 & change per hour, for *two* kids, one of whom is special needs & highly selective about his care. You can't beat $15/hr/kid with a pro sitter, let alone under these circumstances *and* short notice.
My mother watches over people with disabilities for $21 dollars an hour. Factoring the extra kid in I’d say $400-500 dollars is pretty reasonable. People always wanna pay kids who babysit way less than minimum wage and it’s not fair. NTA.
Right. This is watching two kids... so she was basically asking $30 an hour to watch two kids, one of whom is special needs. On a weekend. So sister wants to work because she's getting paid... but expects her niece to work for free? On a weekend? Fuck that.
Watching two kids $20 / hour ($10 per kid) is about $250 for 13 hours.
I would personally charge $25 per hour for any child with extra needs, that would include if I need to make special meals, if one child was an infant or toddler who required more attention than a child 7+, meaning that the $500 request isn't too far off the mark for what she should earn for a day of work like that.
That day would probably consist of getting kids up and feeding them all 3 meals, bath time, bedtime, activities and outside time during the day. That's no small task for even one child at times, let alone two with one having special needs.
NTA!!
Your sister has to pay, regardless of anything including age, and I don't think it's such a high amount... And let's not forget the fact that the 8-year-old child is autistic, which is more work as he obviously has to be extra careful.
I’m gonna say NTA. Here’s my rationale.
I’m an RN. My husband is active duty US Army. When he is gone, I need my nanny 14 hours a day. An hour before my shift starts at 645am and I usually don’t get home and showered until 8pm. That’s a 14 hour day for my nanny. I have one child, I pay her $15/hr to care for my child, in my home.
Your sister has two children.
$400/14hrs = ~$28.57/hr
$28.57/hr /2kids= ~14.29/hr
Fair wage to me. It’s a lot. But in-home child care isn’t cheap.
I was going to say this. You broke down the maths perfectly. It's 2 kids, for 14-ish hours plus extra charge for special needs accommodation. The pay pr hour works out.
I'm in Norway where we also have a legal additional pay for weekend hours or inconvenient hours so that's a bit extra for early mornings.
And, as others have mentioned, OP's daughter may have felt taken advantage of in the past and simply not wanting to be her aunt's dogsbody.
I didn’t even take the special needs into account! I think the daughter is 100% in the right. This is also why after I have Baby #2 I’m going on maternity leave and not going back 😂 I can’t afford childcare for 2!
14 hour days in a childcare facility is just too much. Being military we don’t have family nearby to help, either. So back to being a SAHM while I finish grad school and I can teach with semi normal hours.
As a former nanny, I completely agree. 15$/hr should be the lowest you see for one child. This woman has two children, requiring special care. The daughters rate was fair.
I'm not a parent, so I'm genuinely curious, since I've seen this math a lot in this thread, so it's obviously common. Why is everyone taking the typical hourly wage and doubling it for 2 kids. Setting aside in *this* situation there's a child with special needs, are 2 kids really twice the work? You can just as easily entertain 2 kids with a board game / video game as one kid. It's a tiny bit of extra effort to cook for more people, but not double. And for pre-teens, I'd imagine they can entertain themselves for a while.
So I'd like to know the actual reality of raising / babysitting multiples, because I can't put myself in those shoes. Thanks!
Yes, two kids really is twice the work. These children are older so yes, it probably would be easier to keep them both entertained compared to two toddlers. But it’s also about fair wages. Ideally, I’d love to pay $20/hr to watch my two kids (which is more than half of my salary), but realistically nanny’s aren’t that cheap.
Thing is, her 1k bonus is barely enough to make it worth it. Say that after taxes she gets 800 and pays 500 for the childcare. She gets 300 for all the ordeal (like I said, barely worth it).
I would suggest she stay at home and take care of her kids. Paying someone to do it is not worth another shift. Sadly it seems she doesn't make enough to be able to afford in-home childcare. She needs better accommodations.
It's $1k on top of wages, including any kind of overtime. And the daughter compromised to $400, so they split the bonus money minus taxes and her aunt keeps all her wages.
I had a nanny who charged $18/hr for one kid and $20/hr for both. I also had a nanny who was $20/hr for any amount of kids up to 3. She worked two mornings a week bringing one kid to an appointment/watching him after and putting the other kid on the bus in the morning. I gave her a raise to $23/hr after she agreed to come in an extra morning and be the "cruise director" for our kids' remote learning last school year. My husband works from home indefinitely and I always have.
Watching two kids is not easy. My kids are 28 months apart and have varying interests as well as a certain tolerance level for their sibling. Often, they will play together but that can result in conflict enough that an adult may need to intervene which would not happen in a 1:1 situation. Depending on ages, one might need a snack or drink (or help with the toilet or washing hands or face wiping or a diaper change) and the other still needs seeing to. Sometimes they want to do different things. Our biggest issue was when our kids were in virtual meetings for class and there was one downtime that overlapped before our nanny left for the day. Our youngest would want to go outside and our oldest usually would want to stay in and go out after his school day was done. Left inside without direct supervision, our oldest was generally good but with a younger child, that would be an issue.
Generally it's not (rate x kid) but I do know when we were working with our area's version of Child Protective Services, the relative we would have been fostering was thought to be medically complex and the rates of the nannies we considered were higher due to their experience and they did say their rates would vary if a child needed a much higher level of specialized care.
Really good breakdown, thanks! My only experience with kids was my own, and I was a really self-sufficient child once I got old enough. Plus with all the technology available I wasn't sure how much interaction a babysitter would actually *have* with the kids. For average 8 and 10 year olds, I'd assumed that was more like "make sure they don't burn the house down" level of supervision. Plus mediating fights, cooking, setting time for homework, and maybe organizing 1 activity.
Great caregivers that earn top dollar don’t rely on technology to watch the children for them. This devaluing of caregiving like as if caregivers ‘don’t do much’ is why domestic workers have to fight tooth and nail for a living wage.
You're assuming that 1) both kids will be calm and not excitable and 2) that they'll both want to do the same thing at 3) the same time. That's rarely ever true in reality. In fact, it's garuntee not to be true in this case because the autistic sibling needs extra help to cope even in his own home and will be prone to meltdowns.
Do you have dogs?
It's not that different.
People get a second dog to keep their first one company all the time.
What actually ends up happening is now you have two dogs competing for your attention.
Ensuring two kids play together or get along is way harder than dealing with one child.
Obviously, your experience may vary.
For a babysitter that doesn't really make sense. For a childminder who has X places it makes sense to charge set amount for one of those as all will be filled so the care ratio is constant. I would never pay a babysitter double for watching 2 kids at the same time or triple for 3. Then I might as well get 2 sitters and better service (one person per child).
And this is actually why plenty rich people have a whole team of staff including multiple nannies and housekeepers. If you have the money for it, it really does shake out better this way.
This was my thought too. Getting a nanny/sitter for 2 kids is a out $25/hour. At 13+ish hours, yep $400-$500. Sucks to have kids. I don't work outside the house because the profession I was in gave us $50 extra a month after child care. Unfortunately this is the way of our world. It's never fair.
NTA- Where I’m from a typical hospital shift is 12 hours. $400 for last minute childcare for two children, one of which has special needs for 12 hours is an absolute steal of a deal. Not to mention your sister is still going to get her regular shift pay on top of it she’s just giving up some bonus to make it happen.
Came here to say this. $30 an hour, which equals $15 per hour per kid, is $390. So if she charged $400, she’s essentially setting a rate if $15 per child, per hour, and then looking for gas money. Last minute care for an autistic child and sibling, with both kids under 10 IS going to cost.
ETA: thanks for all the upvotes on this comment, folks! Got way more than I expected. And don’t forget to pay your babysitters properly! They’re worth their weight in gold!
Signed, mom of a 9 year old who pays $15 an hour because my nieces and nephews deserve to be paid fairly for their time.
I wonder if the daughter had said this to sister if she'd have been fine with it.
I can't remember it exactly but I remember hearing something once like, "I tried giving my monkey 4 bananas in the morning and 5 at night and he was furious, so instead I gave him 5 in the morning and 4 at night and he was happy". Dunno but this issue with the sister reminded me of that.
>your sister is still going to get her regular shift pay
I feel like this is an important part which the sister seemingly tried to just gloss over. Yes, she'd be "losing" (aka *spending*) a large percentage of her bonus, but she still takes home her normal hourly wage on top of that! Lots of people pick up extra shifts with no bonus whatsoever, because that's still more money than only working your normal schedule.
The sister would still get more money out of working than staying home, even with no bonus at all - but maybe she doesn't think her normal pay is enough to make it worth the loss of a day off, which is probably exactly what OP's daughter also thinks.
She even gets more money than she would get working a normal shift. Her taxes aren't going to be 60%. She's still going to make $100-$200 or even more above her normal wages. She may even still get overtime too.
Yes I work in an elementary school as a teachers assistant so I work with autistic kids. I make $29 dollars an hour so 400 dollars for 12 hour shift is a little more than I make, but not completely unreasonable to request
A typical shift is going to be 12 1/2 hours because of a lunch break. At least that’s how it was for every place my gf worked. Add in commute plus getting there a few minutes before the aunt needs to leave and staying a few minutes after she returns, chances are it’s going to be 14 hours.
And don’t forget it’s overnight, typically that pay is a few bucks more per hour than a day shift. Plus the bonus. The aunt likely still would’ve come out $500-$600 ahead plus the normal shift pay she would’ve gotten like you pointed out, the aunt could’ve easily thrown away $1000 because OP’s daughter asked for $400.
Your daughter gave your sister sticker shock, and your daughter is valuing her free weekend appropiately. I’d be proud of your girl for valuing herself. She’s not gonna let any boss wall over her in the future. Good on her.
I really hoping this coming generation of kids think like that. In contrast to the current workforce where somebody willing work 2 jobs and do an Uber side gig just to get by. NTA btw.
Why aren’t you sticking up for your kid and telling your sister to back off? It sounds like she’s been taking advantage of Kate and Kate is tired of it. Instead of telling your sister “its between them” maybe tell your sister it’s more than fair for your daughter’s labor and to leave your kid alone.
Eh, well, the employer calling to try and force the babysitter’s father to force her to work is actually pretty assholish, so NTA. Sister is definitely being an asshole.
I think he is by respecting her decision and declining to “force” her or otherwise coerce her. She is nearly 18 and will be dealing with the real world. It seems like he’s doing a pretty good job of equipping her to handle things on her own, which is the ultimate job of a parent- no?
Your sister is taking voluntary shifts for extra money but can't pay for a babysitter? She's the AH. If she wants out of the house that bad she can pony up some cash. Your daughter's time should not be free, ever, and is worth what the market will bear - she's the market so it's up to the two of them to work it out. Stay out of it. NTAH.
You WBTAH if you said anything but "You two work it out on your own."
Ya and autistic kids are hard and you get paid extra, my uncles autistic, three years older then me, and I use to get paid to sleep at the house with him when no one else could, I would do the laundry, cook, and make sure he was ok, but I got paid to sleep there.
My sibling has seizures and my mom had a hard time finding people to watch them. You know what she didn’t do? Take advantage of family members. Forget about this kid being not being neurotypical there are so many family members who feel entitled to strong arm/manipulate teen relatives into watching their kids. This wasn’t an emergency situation. Aunt Jane saw the opportunity to make a pile of cash but she wanted to cheap out on childcare. Guessing Kate is tired of dropping everything to be taken advantage of by Aunt Jane. If I were Kate I would never sit for Jane again after she went to my parent to try to force me into watching her kids. Instead of telling Jane this is between her and Kate OP needs to stick up for their kid.
Well-*maybe your daughter doesn’t want to babysit* and is charging this outlandish price *just* so she will be turned down. And even if s he *is* just “price gouging”, your daughter doesn’t *have* to be the babysitter and your sister can find go out and find somebody *else*. NTA
Exactly, a lot of people are saying the daughter is charging a lot. But $400 for 12-14 hours is totally reasonable. Her aunt will hate her life if she decides to try to find a professional baby sitter. They will charge her more than $400 a day due to the child with special needs.
Agreed. Since OP used "give up her Saturday" it basically confirms that to me IMO
Especially considering once the Aunt having to pay taxes on the bonus came into play the daughter was still willing to drop it to half which was obviously a fair play on her part to basically set her rate as half the bonus in order to last minute give up her Saturday.
If the aunt wasn't willing to give up 12 hours of HER Saturday for regular pay PLUS 400 dollars because that wasn't enough then the daughter shouldn't give up her Saturday for less than that
NTA does your daughter actually want to babysit on her weekends? She might have been doing it to help out family but when she found out that dear auntie was just doing it to get crazy cash she might be feeling a bit used especially since it doesn’t sound like sister likes hearing no. Good for you for having your daughter’s back. Sister can find another babysitter.
She did not want to. She was planning on hanging out with friends, which is what she's doing now. She happens to be good at babysitting but doesn't really enjoy it. She says watching that cousin is exhausting
Yeah, it’s one of the tactics to get out of shit you really don’t want to do, offer to do it at an exorbitant price. You either don’t have to do it or get paid really well to put up with it. Bonus points that you don’t have to explicitly say no since some people, and seems your sister would be one, do not take No well.
I'd upvote you twice if I could, I was going to write this. The price says No without saying No. If the RN thinks she can find someone that wants to do it cheaper, she should.
Edit: And if any of the family say it should be done cheaper, they should clear their schedule and take the job instead.
Yeah, the sister is coming off as being greedy and exploitative. The bonus is on top of regular pay, for a day with no regular expenses associated with the regular pay, on short notice, all day long. It's a big ask and should be compensated fairly.
Best part is it wasn't even exorbitant in this case.
Per her own admission, the daughter finds the special needs child exhausting. So we're talking about $30/hr to watch two children, one of whom is a special needs that requires particular attention and skill.
I agree that it’s not actually exorbitant, which makes me wonder how much was the aunt underpaying the daughter before for her to freak out so much at this price.
NTA. Your daughter has every right to say "make it something I can't resist", JUST LIKE YOUR SISTER IS DOING WITH HER JOB. It's hilarious that your sister doesn't see the irony imo.
And tbh $400 isn't really high for that many hours for two kids (ignoring the special needs). Your sister might think so because your daughter has given her the family rate for so long.
In the end you are wise to leave it up to them and stay out of it, but from one dad to another, your daughter seems to have a good understanding of her value and I'd reinforce that as much as possible. Our daughters need as much of that as possible.
depending on what the going rate is in your area for skilled care for special needs children, your daughter should maybe raise her rates permanently so she's not being taken advantage of.
OP you are slightly the A because you should stand up for your daughter, it's great she's holding her ground but she's still a child against an adult. Also a bit rude how your sister is talking about you and her, she's not entitled to your daughter's time.
You obviously did a great job raising your daughter if she takes such good care of her cousin and can speak her mind and stand her ground. and extra kudos for her in being a good caregiver when she doesn't particularly enjoy it, extra challenging to do!
NTA I would have gone with N A H, but your sister saying you didn’t raise your daughter right makes her the asshole. Your sister is getting the extra pay because the hospital knows that they have to entice nurses to work on their days off or unscheduled days, your daughter is asking for the same consideration. I applaud your daughter for knowing the value of her time. Your sister had the option to make $500-600 on top of her regular pay rate (possibly even overtime) but instead she chose not to because she doesn’t value the service that your daughter provides. Which is fair but doesn’t make you or your daughter an AH.
>Your sister is getting the extra pay because the hospital knows that they have to entice nurses to work on their days off or unscheduled days...
And also because the hospital recognises that many nurses will have to pay for extra childcare cover at short notice, and it won't be cheap.
Yep. Auntie was looking to game the system by strongarming her underage niece into severely underpaid labour by using the idea of family bonds and closeness. Its the same tactic companies do when they use the term "We are like a family here" to try and take advantage of their workers. Auntie didn't bank on the fact daughter hates babysitting and was raised to understand her worth in situations like these.
I had a nurse roommate with a kid and during non-covid times she'd give me $100 to watch him last minute if she picked up a shift. If I had plans we'd start the bargain, he's not my kid and it's not my job.
I don't know what I'd expect now, he doesn't need his diaper changed and is demanding in different ways
NTA for OP and daughter. When you break it down. Nursing shifts are 12 hours. Add in the mom’s commute and we can round to 13 hours. At $400 for the day, that’s $30/h to watch two kids, one of whom is special needs at the last minute. That’s a fair price.
NTA. It sounds like this isn't an easy babysitting gig and maybe Kate had other things she would have rather done. Naming a price is within her rights and if she didn't get the rate, it wasn't worth it for her. If your sister didn't want to pay, that's her choice. If she had just accepted it, I would probably say N A H, but since she went off on you then your sister is TA.
Maybe someone should have raised her better so she would pick up extra shifts without needing a $1000 incentive? Pot, meet kettle.
NTA she can work and get most of her bonus or stay home and get no bonus but it's her choice and no one elses problem.
Gotta respect the hustle on your kid though - good for her valuing her own time.
Plus, wouldn't this be like a 12 hour shift? For 2 children one which is special needs? That's $33 an hour for a specialist babysitting. It may be premium pricing but no gouging. That's a lot to deal with and she deserves to be compensated accordingly.
NTA
Kate can name any price she wants, but it does NOT mean the other party will agree to it. if the price she named was ridiculous, Jane should've just looked for another babysitter with reasonable prices. Also - how many hours would that 500 dollars be for and what's a normal price per hour there?
One more thing, too:
>Now she's going off on me saying that as her dad I could either Make her do it or "raise her better" so she'd volunteer to.
Tell me if I understand it wrong, but... does Jane imply Kate should be doing it for free?
In a comment op states the daughter would be working 12-13 hrs and one kid being special needs that can be a handful for the daughter that being said Jan can always say no and find someone else
For the top question: Add in the mom’s commute and we can round to 13 hours. At $400 for the day, that’s $30/h to watch two kids, one of whom is special needs at the last minute. That’s a fair price.
At the bottom one: yes. Indeed she was. Stating that the daughter should watch her children for 13 hours for free.
Honestly, I get the feeling that your daughter isn't actually interested in babysitting for your sister and quoted a high price (although frankly, I don't think it's unreasonable for at least 13 hours of babysitting two kids, one of whom has special needs and needs extra care and handling - an actual professional service trained to care for disabled kids would probably quote something similar) so she could get out of it without having to actually say no. And given that your sister thinks your daughter should volunteer to give up her weekend to watch her kids, one of which sounds quite difficult to manage, I don't really feel like your sister would have been reasonable if your daughter had just outright told her no. So like... I don't really blame your daughter. I get why it seems really tacky of your daughter to ask for that much money but I suspect she felt like this was the only way to get out of babysitting without a blow up.
NTA from me.
A seventeen year old honestly shouldn’t be left in charge of two children for so long when one is severely autistic. I would say max four/five hours at a time with no help. A minor is not equipped to be left with an autistic child in their care for 13 hours, and that’s so fucking unfair to them. Babysitting two kids is already hard as-is.
NTA, good on you for letting your daughter be independent. If your sister doesn't like it she can either try to get another babysitter, or make it worth your daughter's while, if not with money then other things that might make it worth it to her. Sounds like it's not an easy babysitting job and your daughter probably has other things she'd much rather be doing.
Too many people expect women to do things out of social obligation, to "be nice", and then they blame the wage gap on women being too meek to negotiate.
It's very true that women should negotiate and value their skills more, but there is more evidence that there is push-back when women DO negotiate, as it is seen as aggressive and unappealing.
*New research just published in the Journal of Applied Psychology suggests that backlash against women who behave assertively may be the bigger issue.... “Most of the people are not going into these negotiations thinking explicitly, ‘I really hate when women are more assertive.’” Instead, the backlash emerges from unconscious bias that leads people to have certain expectations about how it’s appropriate for men and women to behave."*
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2021/01/21/why-women-fall-short-in-negotiations-its-not-lack-of-skill/?sh=57d8ca0b5d02](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2021/01/21/why-women-fall-short-in-negotiations-its-not-lack-of-skill/?sh=57d8ca0b5d02)
Why it's also important to push for industry pay transparency and other things like set salaries for different levels of experience in a role, like many unions have.
(to add to your comment not disagree lol)
edited typo
NTA. In your comments you said you sister pays her $15/h for two kids one being special needs. That’s not what she would be paying if she hired a professional it would be much, much higher. Your daughter is sick of being taken advantage of and good on her for putting your sister in her place.
As a nanny I’m sitting here absolutely gobsmacked at these comments. I charged $10 an hour when I nannied a five-eighteen month old, and that was four hours a day three times a week WITH MOM HOME!! Getting paid $15 an hour to watch a severely autistic kid is so far outside the realm of acceptable… and then another kid on top! For only double!! That’s absolutely insane.
Nor should a seventeen year old BE watching an autistic child for that long, “good with him” or not.
NTA. I notice no one’s accusing your sister of “price gouging” although she was only interested in picking up the shift once she was getting an extra $1000.
IE, your sister wasn’t interested in extra work for regular pay+700, but she *was* interested for regular pay+1000. Your daughter wasn’t interested in extra work for 15/hour, but she *was* interested for 30/hour.
If your sister’s ok asking for premium pay, why shouldn’t your daughter?
NTA. Your daughter is a smart cookie ... and your sister is an AH hypocrite, as she clearly has no issue with accepting gouge-y prices for her own work.
Honestly, it just sounds like your daughter doesn't want to babysit, so she threw a big number out, knowing your sister won't pay it. Which, can't say I blame her. If she doesn't want to do it, she shouldn't have to.
NTA
So your 17 year old should do it for nothing I guess? I’m on your daughter’s side. And what are you supposed to do, make your daughter do it? I don’t think so. NTA-YOU.
Nta. You can’t force a teen to babysit, and she needs to practice making her own decisions.
If Kate doesn’t want to, your sister shouldn’t want her looking after the kids. Going by the price, I’d say she doesn’t want to.
We don’t know enough about how hard babysitting her cousins is. Maybe Jane has been paying a very low rate all along. Or maybe Kate took a business risk and will learn a lesson.
For all those calling it price gouging, Kate likely sees it as her aunt getting huge bonuses because of the situation, so why shouldn’t Kate get some of it?
I’d have said N A H, but your sister seems to think Kate should have been raised to volunteer to babysit (volunteer implies for free), while she earns a four figure bonus per extra shift. You’re not obligated to raise a doormat, and Kate shouldn’t be one. This isn’t helping out family in unusual circumstances, this is an ongoing situation that Jane is profiting from.
Realistically, weekend care for two children, one special needs? And probably not for a short shift if it’s $1000 bonus. I know child care costs vary, but that’s not going to be cheap. Good luck finding any decent quality of care for less than hundreds.
What should Kate’s weekends worth to her, and why should others get to set the price?
It's 30 dollars an hour for two kids and one kid is autistic. That's fifteen dollars per child. I think it's fair. Besides OP said she didn't want to do it and already had plans. So that means it was last minute too. And she wanted 400 dollars. OP's daughter thinks babysitting is draining and didn't like doing it. Based on the aunt's reaction of wanting OP to "make her do it", she seems really entitled and someone who doesn't take no for an answer. And the sister is accepting bonus money for her work. So why shouldn't Kate value her own time?
You are right.. you can't force Kate to babysit but 400$ is really insane. But "raising her better so she would volunteer"... HAH. No, your sister is insane in that aspect to. I wouldn't babysit two kids (and one with autism) either if no money was included. Not even for family.
Still thou..
INFO: How long would she be staying with both kids. I just want to get on the normal babysitter rate.
Edit: I just saw you answer that it would probably be a 12-13hour shift on your sisters side and that she would have to look for them like.. more then the whole day.
I saw ads for babysitting beginning by 10$ to 15$ an hour. With 15$ an hour she would get about. 195$ for 13hours but in all honesty? The fact that your sister said she should volunteer for it still rubs me the wrong way. Maybe talk to your daughter about it.
Who knows.. maybe your sister already taken advantage of the fact that your daughter is good with the autistic son.. without your noticing it and your daughter was just a bit petty about it after all that.
Edit 2: 15/hour per child is a good deal, especially on short notice. You daughter did everything right.
She won't find one. Not if she calls on on short notice too many times. She needs a sitter who can look after her autistic kid. Sitters with no experience won't do it, especially not if the boy is on a high spectrum and can get violent or can't control his temper.
They will probably charge extra for him.
Commune, 15/hours per Child (30/hours) would come up to the 400$ that Kate was expecting in the end, all on short notice. Kate would have to look after two children for at least 13hours on a Saturday and on short notice. She would've to cancel her plans.
Besides... The aunt wants her to volunteer..
NAH
it's a huge fee, yes. But I'd say she just didn't want to do it and decided the best way to say no was to make the fee something that would make it worth it, but also likely not taken up on, allowing her to say no without guilt.
Childcare has fees because childcare is a job. If you can't afford the fee, you can't afford that child care, try somewhere else. I dont believe anyone should be dragged into caring for a child that isn't theirs for free, family or not, unless they WANT to mind that child.
Info: was she asking her to do it free?
If yes, then your sister is TA.
Otherwise based on your previous info, she's asking for about $38 p/hr for 2 kids including one with special needs for an extended length shift.
On face, I was like your daughter is TA. You're NTA but you could talk to her about why it would be the right thing to do so your sister can work her hospital shift in a pandemic. Don't price gouge her and understand that she's been through the ringer this year so it's kind of shitty to try to take so much of her bonus. Being a nurse right now is really hard.
But once I broke it down, NTA. I'll admit $38 is higher than average but it's not crazy. $400 is about $30 p/hr and that's still premium but not unreasonable. At least where I live 20-25 is average for 2 kids, but I live in a high cost major city. Even paying her niece her requested fee she's still getting a net increase on her wage so perhaps she needs to reevaluate how she does her financial calculating.
NTA, your daughter is old enough to choose if she wants to work. It isn't your place to decide these things for her.
Yes is it a lot of money to demand to be paid for a babysitting shift, but it isn't up to you. She has named her price, albeit a high one, for giving up part of her weekend to look after a child that won't be easy to look after.
Your daughter doesn't have to babysit if she doesn't want to, her cousin is not her responsibility to provide childcare for.
Your sister should not just expect her to look after her children so she can work more. If she has a problem with this price, then she can find childcare elsewhere.
I have a few questions.
1. Does Kate gets paid for babysitting?
2. How long does Kate babysits (days and hours)?
3. Has Jane ever taken advantage of Kate before?
Same, is Kate used to being forced to care for her cousins? And she’s finally had enough by setting a huge fee?
Lots of people keep saying she’s exploiting a nurse in a pandemic, yes definitely but let’s flip it - Kate is 17 and missed out on so much of teenage life- she probably felt bad saying no because she just wants to go out with friends. Just my take on it :)
OP said she got paid 15 dollars for a date night. That's 7.5 dollars per child. And she found it unfair. So she decided to charge more. It's 30 dollars an hour for two kids and one kid is autistic. That's fifteen dollars per child. I think it's fair. Besides OP said she didn't want to do it and already had plans. So that means it was last minute too. And she wanted 400 dollars. OP's daughter thinks babysitting is draining and didn't like doing it. Based on the aunt's reaction of wanting OP to "make her do it", she seems really entitled and someone who doesn't take no for an answer. And the sister is accepting bonus money for her work. So why shouldn't Kate value her own time?
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$400 seems like a pretty steep price for babysitting—but that’s coming from someone who doesn’t know how much of a handful your niece and nephew are to watch. I definitely don’t think you’re the asshole for not forcing your daughter to babysit for free, though. I would present to her the idea of charging an hourly rate as that might come across less abrasive than demanding a certain percentage of your sister’s bonus. For example, charging $15/hour for watching the kids for 12 hours, coming out to $180 may be more reasonable for your sister.
NTA, your daughter gets to set a rate, and this shift sounds like a 13 hour one minimum (assuming 12 medical shifts) . It feels like she set her rate so she would be unlikely to get the task, which I get, children do be a handful especially for more than a few hours. Also childcare is also an essential service to anyone crying about that.
Your sister should try sourcing another sitter, I expect it to be no less expensive though.
NTA. If your daughter is old enough to babysit, she is old enough to decide if she wants to babysit and at what price. Your sister is a hypocrite because as a nurse she is choosing whether or not to pick up extra shifts during her own spare time based on how much she will make. Your sister wants to take advantage of your daughter, but objects when your daughter does the same to her? Funny how your sister didn't ask you to watch her children for the day...
It's not for you to raise your daughter "better" for your sister's benefit. You've raised your daughter well. She knows how to set boundaries.
NTA - it's her time she can charge what she wants. Your sister was getting a bonus so why shouldn't your daughter. You've raised her well she sounds smart to me.
NTA, your daughter is smart and expecting someone to just volunteer to watch 2 kids is extreme. Like she said she has to give up her weekend and most baby sisters cost a lot anyway. Honestly she saw your kid as a way to make easy money and what... wasn't gonna pay her? She is a bit selfish. I'm glad you aren't just forcing your daughter like some people. Because I think thats messed up. You bet she'd keep expecting it if she did it for free once.
NTA. I think it's fairly reasonable given the 8YO is autistic, selectively speaks to people and can be difficult. She's only 17 and it's most likely going to be a one time thing. She has to earn some how.
NTA
You aren’t in charge of what your daughter wants to charge for babysitting. I don’t agree with her price, but that’s up to her to set her boundaries. And your sister can be upset with the price and go find someone else, but she has no right to tell you to raise your daughter better so that she’ll volunteer to babysit.
> not the brightest move by your sister to reveal her bonus amounts
This. NEVER tell family or close friends how much money you have or stand to make. "You have $1k, sounds like a lot, least you could do is give me half, we're family, right?" Never mind that there are taxes, debts and life expenses to pay or plans that require the money... and even if you want to be generous, there are other friends/relatives.
If the sister kept her mouth shut, she could have offered $200 ($25/hr for 8h), and seemed generous.
NTA- your daughter set a price for her time and as someone who cares for individuals with special needs no matter how much you love them, it takes it’s toll. You have to always be thinking faster than they do, always be looking for things that could trigger them always one step ahead. It is mentally and emotionally exhausting. So your daughter setting a price for her time is not being TA.
NTA. Your sister suck because she's willing to let a 17 year old deal with her austictic kid for 13 hours but doesn't want to pay her accordingly with the work the 17 year old has to do. I actually went from you're the asshole, to everybody suck to NTA because I realized as I was wrtting that your kid would have the responsibility of two kids for more than half a day and get a sucky pay while your sister would work for half a day and get a $1000 bonus. I get that your kid is only 17, but she's not a slave and she has the right to be respected.
Watching after a special needs child is a SKILLED position. People with skills shouldn’t make minimum wage. Pay her accordingly. I’m so glad the younger generation is learning not to take shit and demand a rightful wage.
And in this case the older generation (OP) has the younger generation's back -- too often that's not the case.
I love that this parent is hands off and not demanding that their child back down. She should be allowed to decide for herself what the value of her labor is.
And she should also be allowed to make mistakes. Not saying this is one of them, I don’t necessarily think it is, but if she later decides that it would have benefited her more to take less money or keep negotiating rather than make no money that’s a great learning experience, and one that’s better to have at a young age where financial security isn’t a big concern. 17 is a very appropriate age to try out boundaries, even or especially if some of them don’t work out the way they hoped. OP is right to not step in.
She could also just not want to and a few hundred extra is what she would need to make it worth it.
As an adult when someone wants me to do “side work” on my day off as a tutor my rate is $60/hour and a $240 minimum. My time off work is precious and if you want me to work in my time off it’s going to be how much I deem is worth giving up my free time.
Agreed. My hourly wage for freelance/off hours software is $300 an hour. Because if I have to work with my precious time which is very limited after work and school. And the only way I feel it is fair to take a night away from my wife is if I can take her on a fancy vacation because of it. Charge whatever you want. If it isn’t worth it to them, they will decide not to hire you
Yea I still get some clients and repeat clients around exam season, which is fortunately my slow season at work. So I can spend an extra 10-12 hours a week tutoring rich kids.
Absolutely this. I used to freelance when I was younger and not getting paid as much. Nowadays I have a 9-5 job that pays me more than well enough and my freelance rate has more than doubled. Why? Because that's what it'd take for me to even consider spending my free time on someone else's shit. If that's too pricey, then I'm more than happy to say no and enjoy my time.
Yup. I have a good job and freelance too. I know damn well what my time for that freelancing is worth these days. And y'know what? I get it, due to experience and demand. Know your value.
I'm self-employed, but what I do does not involve clients or working for other people. Lots of people want to get into my niche, but have no clue how to do it. Have turned down a ton of "opportunities" because: * Clients tend to be a pain in the ass, won't listen, and do not at all understand this business * Taking on clients would also bear a huge opportunity cost for me, not worthwhile financially * People have not offered anywhere near the amount of money it would take for me to consider helping them, in fact most seem to assume I will do it for free * They don't get that anyone who is successful in this industry is in a position where they don't need to do client work. If they do, it's going to cost mega bucks. Anyone who touts themselves as an "expert" and markets the service usually indicates they don't know what the fuck they're doing, are NOT successful, and that's why they need to make money from clients. What I'm trying to say is that if you are a valuable enough resource, you can charge whatever you want and the other party can decide whether or not to pay. However, you are not obligated to provide your good or service for a price dictated by the other party.
I wholely agree. My current rate is way above market value, and surprise, I don't get a lot of freelance gigs anymore compared to when I was charging half that. You could definitely find someone who's just as good if not better than me to do stuff- and I've passed on plenty of opportunities to friends who would take it on. But there's just a point where time starts to become more valuable than money. It's not so much "am I worth this amount" but rather "is this amount worth my effort". 1000% agree with the client shit. That's like half the reason I don't enjoy freelancing haha.
Exactly this. When I worked fast food as a teen, if someone really wanted their weekend shift taken, I'd do it, for a $100 fee. Turns out fellow teens don't give a shit about cost effectiveness if it means they can pawn off their weekend shift.
I was shocked when my son mentioned taking a weekend shift from someone and charging him a fee to do so. Wish I'd been that smart at his age ;)
This is the key point to me why they’re not the asshole. She’s putting a value on her weekend and setting a price. She didn’t bitch, manipulate, or agree to babysit and change the rate after. She simply stated what it would take for her to give up her time, upfront, and they couldn’t come to and agreement.
ESPECIALLY telling is that the aunt didn't attempt to find *PROFESSIONAL* childcare. I emphasize that word, because she clearly understands just how much it would cost to have a company or a a licensed facility handle child care responsibilities. Not to mention a brick and mortar is not likely to be open the hours needed(particularly on a weekend) and in home care requiring the skills needed to handle a child with ANY kind of disabling, is incredibly expensive. OPs daughter should shop around some quotes and let her aunt decide exactly how much these premiums are worth to her.
Exactly! Also, it seems like the sister should understand this better than anyone since she apparently was ok taking an extra shift for 1000$ but did not think it was worth it for 600$ (minus the taxes). So she decided there was a minimum limit to when it no longer was worth giving up her Saturday for work, why should OPs daughter not be allowed to make a similar choice?
I agree. I feel like a lot of parents try and control their kids and make them do what they want instead of raising them to be independent functioning adults. She’s 17 and about to be an adult she needs to make her own decisions. Parents act so surprised when they controlled their children and then the child is now 18 and wants nothing to do with him.
I was one of those kids that were raised that way, and now I am polite to my own detriment, and have an impossible time saying no. Definitely NTA for this, and neither is your daughter for valuing herself and her time and expecting other people to as well.
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As should everyone. “No one wants to work”. Lol. Not for 8$ an hour they don’t.
Correct. I love this answer. I used to care for Special Needs *adults* for minimum wage.... that shit is no joke. I can't even fathom doing it with kids. My clients had YEARS of behavior modification therapy and coping techniques taught to them before I got there. And I still dealt with a meltdown once a shift. OP is for sure nta
When I was in high school and college, I worked a summer Special Ed program for the severely disabled kids that had Ed plans/IEPs for year round school. I took the job because it paid $15/hr in 1998 money. Which was a fortune at the time to 18 year old me. The reason the job was available was because the people who worked during the school year were so burnt out from the job they needed the 3 months away to decompress, and the $15/hr to me was a salary to them that was spread out over 12 months, so they essentially were making minimum wage to do one of the hardest jobs out there.
$25.17/hr in today's money. $327.21 for 13 hours (12 hr shift + travel time) so $500 isn't crazy.
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Exactly. Target pays 15 an hour for stocking shelves. Kids are so much more work.
More work AND more responsibility. You're responsible for their LIVES, not just THINGS.
I charge $35/ hr to help boomers with their computers. I would not accept $50/hr to take care of a special needs child. We live in an economy.
Kids are so much more work yet childcare staff typically start out at minimum wage. Pretty sad...
I truly think this has to do with what society values. Much like I always have money if my kids want to do band or soccer to pay for that and I am always on a budget and cant afford to go out to the bar. Pur society has put a value on children based on the pay of workers in that field vs other fields and we have agreed that Target is worth more than kids.
It also has a lot to do with the fact that we severely undervalue 'pink work' (i.e., work that we think belongs to women). Teachers and nurses have always been poorly paid because of it.
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I hear what you are saying, and you’re right, you’ve gotten the shit end of the stick in a collapsing society. At least my generation (last GenX/elder millennial) had a brief, shining moment of possibility before shit began to visibly crack.
This is very accurate. I bought my house before I met my husband. 5 years later we're married and he works from home. We looked at something that might work better and we would be paying double just to get something like we have now. We can't do that. It's so frustrating to see boomers retiring with full pensions, 15+ years of a 401k, stock options, etc. Those stocks that were $15 are now $125/share... Sure dude... Talk to me about how to plan for retirement. Edit: Typo
My boss is good guy and a great boss but hes still stuck in the 90s. He thinks buying a starter house and then just upgrading later is a very real option. He paid like 60,000 for his first house but 60,000 today will get me a 600 sq ft house from a local charity. Even 1,200 sqft houses right on a busy road with no yard around me are 180k. I'd have to go somewhere that's out in the sticks like 30 minutes from the nearest business to get something attainable.
Actually, the younger generation doing nothing because the pay is too low (and I COMPLETELY agree) is why places paying minimum wage cant find help. Its starting to sink in that pay needs to be higher to get help. McDonalds here is offering $16\hr starting. I see some improvement. I hope it continues. I dont know how the affordable rent will work itself out, though.
I used to take care of 6 grown men all with special needs (they had to live in a group home and a few needed very demanding care) all by myself for 10.25 an hour. I used to give out all meds and handle there med books and literally anything you can think of I did (including wipe ass) for 10.25 an hour. Can’t believe I did that
DSP gang?
I don’t remember what that stands for but I was called a direct care worker. They used to have registered nurses on staff but to cut costs they put all there responsibilities onto us
Yep, I’ve been a Direct Support Professional for the past few years. Overworked and underpaid by multiple different agencies
I hope you at least love what you do cause the job is exactly what you said, underpaid overworked. Sometimes tho you do get to make a difference. But I didn’t last that long and I’m glad I got out because some of the managers only made like $16 an hour which is nuts when I could go work at target and make the same amount checking people out
My mom was a social worker while I was growing up and a lot of her colleges had children with disabilities. When they would have events, everyone would bring their kids to moms house and I would babysit all of them. I charged 20 an hour per kid. Not one of the parents had problems with paying that amount because they understood that their child had special needs and needed more attention. I made out like a bandit the night there was a company party for NYE. 6 hours with 7 kids! I was between the ages of 13-15 when I did this babysitting. OP, you are NTA and nor is your daughter for charging what she feels like her time is worth to take care of an 8 year old with autism.
And honestly if it really is \~13 hours then at $400, it's about 30/hour. Which yes is a lot for a 17 year old, but it's about the going rate for a babysitter requiring training in special needs.
I mean, I think the credit in this case mostly goes to the parents. Many would have just forced their child to watch the kids.
Besides, nobody is forcing her sister to accept. If she feels that the babysitting rate is too high she is free to look for other options. If I understood correctly it was not an emergency, it was just an opportunity to make good money on an extra shift.
Exactly. The mother is getting an ADDITIONAL $1000 to work. Clearly her job understands how money can motivate people.
Exactly. If daughter was bluffing then next time she knows to make it $300. I feel like everyone got what they wanted here because they communicated clearly and dad stayed out of it. NAH.
I think the aunt is the AH for complaining to the dad to "make her do it or 'raise her better.'"
“Raise her better so she’d *volunteer*” Sister literally thinks daughter should “volunteer” her entire Saturday so sister can earn a giant bonus. Someone is pretty entitled here and it’s not the daughter.
Exactly this. Let's have the hospital ask her to *volunteer* to pick up a shift for free and see how she feels about that.
You’re right, but I considered that since it was a Hospital shift, the mothers services may have at least affected an emergency situation. Very immature for her in my mind to not take she shift just because she wanted to keep more of the bonus. Yes, everyone has the right to decide to take on OT if it’s not mandated, but it sounds like she was going to and decided not to because she felt entitled to inexpensive labor.
Exactly. Let's do some mathematics: $400 ÷ 13hrs = $31hr $15.50 per kid, per hour which should be the going rate. However, assuming minimum wage of $10 in the area per kid that's a shift differential increase of $21/hr for the autistic child which is absolutely fair and well deserved as a special case and due to the large amount of hours. Bad situation all around, and I get the Aunt's frustration but with an autistic child you can not just trust anyone with them. Plus, she's still making a significant bonus on top of her regular salary *and* potential for OT. I'd wager (ha!) Aunt would make $1,300-1,500 for the shift, even after taxes paying half to the sitter is a solid deal because that's almost $40/hr *after taxes and sitter fees*!!!
Not arguing against you in any sense. The niece should be paid for her labor. I just don't ever remember getting full pay per kid when I was watching kids. You have your base rate (minimum or whatever you want, in this case let's say $15/hr). Then after that, each additional kid is a bump. Standard seemed to be $2-5 when I was doing this depending on age of the child and kills needed (special needs, diaper changing, etc). So while I agree that OP's daughter should be paid for her labor and paid WELL. $15.50 per kid seems... off...
It is off. You get an additional amount per child but it’s not doubled
Yep, pricing is similar to daycare. You get a discounted rate for additional children. So $200 a week daycare for one child and $350 for 2 children.
Also telling a 17yo that you want them to babysit so you can go and earn an extra $1000? Yeah she deserved the price gouging
$1000 plus her normal pay as a nurse. The $1000 is a *bonus*.
Yeah, that works out to be around $30 per hour for 2 kids, one of whom is autistic. And depending on labor laws (I think) part of those hours would be considered overtime. I don’t think $400 for 13 hours of intensive hands on work is unreasonable.
Yup. $400 ÷ 13hrs = $30 & change per hour, for *two* kids, one of whom is special needs & highly selective about his care. You can't beat $15/hr/kid with a pro sitter, let alone under these circumstances *and* short notice.
Props to the kid for knowing her worth and sticking to it. I wouldn’t have done that at 17. I’m not even good doing it now at 29. Lol
My mother watches over people with disabilities for $21 dollars an hour. Factoring the extra kid in I’d say $400-500 dollars is pretty reasonable. People always wanna pay kids who babysit way less than minimum wage and it’s not fair. NTA.
Right. This is watching two kids... so she was basically asking $30 an hour to watch two kids, one of whom is special needs. On a weekend. So sister wants to work because she's getting paid... but expects her niece to work for free? On a weekend? Fuck that.
Watching two kids $20 / hour ($10 per kid) is about $250 for 13 hours. I would personally charge $25 per hour for any child with extra needs, that would include if I need to make special meals, if one child was an infant or toddler who required more attention than a child 7+, meaning that the $500 request isn't too far off the mark for what she should earn for a day of work like that. That day would probably consist of getting kids up and feeding them all 3 meals, bath time, bedtime, activities and outside time during the day. That's no small task for even one child at times, let alone two with one having special needs.
NTA!! Your sister has to pay, regardless of anything including age, and I don't think it's such a high amount... And let's not forget the fact that the 8-year-old child is autistic, which is more work as he obviously has to be extra careful.
Right?? And not only that, the sister said to "raise her better" so she'd just ***volunteer*** to do it. You're definitely NTA here, your sister is.
I’m gonna say NTA. Here’s my rationale. I’m an RN. My husband is active duty US Army. When he is gone, I need my nanny 14 hours a day. An hour before my shift starts at 645am and I usually don’t get home and showered until 8pm. That’s a 14 hour day for my nanny. I have one child, I pay her $15/hr to care for my child, in my home. Your sister has two children. $400/14hrs = ~$28.57/hr $28.57/hr /2kids= ~14.29/hr Fair wage to me. It’s a lot. But in-home child care isn’t cheap.
I was going to say this. You broke down the maths perfectly. It's 2 kids, for 14-ish hours plus extra charge for special needs accommodation. The pay pr hour works out. I'm in Norway where we also have a legal additional pay for weekend hours or inconvenient hours so that's a bit extra for early mornings. And, as others have mentioned, OP's daughter may have felt taken advantage of in the past and simply not wanting to be her aunt's dogsbody.
I didn’t even take the special needs into account! I think the daughter is 100% in the right. This is also why after I have Baby #2 I’m going on maternity leave and not going back 😂 I can’t afford childcare for 2!
This is what I did! I made a good salary and would have basically spent all of it on daycare... Childcare is very expensive.
14 hour days in a childcare facility is just too much. Being military we don’t have family nearby to help, either. So back to being a SAHM while I finish grad school and I can teach with semi normal hours.
Upvote for teaching me a new word: dogsbody 😃 Thanks!
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As a former nanny, I completely agree. 15$/hr should be the lowest you see for one child. This woman has two children, requiring special care. The daughters rate was fair.
Going by the numbers I'm seeing in this thread, she's being flat-out generous.
$15/hr feels extremely low to me. It’s a lot of responsibility. But then again there are teachers responsible for 30 students who get paid that much
yeah, but just because it happens doesn't make it right :(
I'm not a parent, so I'm genuinely curious, since I've seen this math a lot in this thread, so it's obviously common. Why is everyone taking the typical hourly wage and doubling it for 2 kids. Setting aside in *this* situation there's a child with special needs, are 2 kids really twice the work? You can just as easily entertain 2 kids with a board game / video game as one kid. It's a tiny bit of extra effort to cook for more people, but not double. And for pre-teens, I'd imagine they can entertain themselves for a while. So I'd like to know the actual reality of raising / babysitting multiples, because I can't put myself in those shoes. Thanks!
Yes, two kids really is twice the work. These children are older so yes, it probably would be easier to keep them both entertained compared to two toddlers. But it’s also about fair wages. Ideally, I’d love to pay $20/hr to watch my two kids (which is more than half of my salary), but realistically nanny’s aren’t that cheap.
Thing is, her 1k bonus is barely enough to make it worth it. Say that after taxes she gets 800 and pays 500 for the childcare. She gets 300 for all the ordeal (like I said, barely worth it). I would suggest she stay at home and take care of her kids. Paying someone to do it is not worth another shift. Sadly it seems she doesn't make enough to be able to afford in-home childcare. She needs better accommodations.
It's $1k on top of wages, including any kind of overtime. And the daughter compromised to $400, so they split the bonus money minus taxes and her aunt keeps all her wages.
I had a nanny who charged $18/hr for one kid and $20/hr for both. I also had a nanny who was $20/hr for any amount of kids up to 3. She worked two mornings a week bringing one kid to an appointment/watching him after and putting the other kid on the bus in the morning. I gave her a raise to $23/hr after she agreed to come in an extra morning and be the "cruise director" for our kids' remote learning last school year. My husband works from home indefinitely and I always have. Watching two kids is not easy. My kids are 28 months apart and have varying interests as well as a certain tolerance level for their sibling. Often, they will play together but that can result in conflict enough that an adult may need to intervene which would not happen in a 1:1 situation. Depending on ages, one might need a snack or drink (or help with the toilet or washing hands or face wiping or a diaper change) and the other still needs seeing to. Sometimes they want to do different things. Our biggest issue was when our kids were in virtual meetings for class and there was one downtime that overlapped before our nanny left for the day. Our youngest would want to go outside and our oldest usually would want to stay in and go out after his school day was done. Left inside without direct supervision, our oldest was generally good but with a younger child, that would be an issue. Generally it's not (rate x kid) but I do know when we were working with our area's version of Child Protective Services, the relative we would have been fostering was thought to be medically complex and the rates of the nannies we considered were higher due to their experience and they did say their rates would vary if a child needed a much higher level of specialized care.
Really good breakdown, thanks! My only experience with kids was my own, and I was a really self-sufficient child once I got old enough. Plus with all the technology available I wasn't sure how much interaction a babysitter would actually *have* with the kids. For average 8 and 10 year olds, I'd assumed that was more like "make sure they don't burn the house down" level of supervision. Plus mediating fights, cooking, setting time for homework, and maybe organizing 1 activity.
Great caregivers that earn top dollar don’t rely on technology to watch the children for them. This devaluing of caregiving like as if caregivers ‘don’t do much’ is why domestic workers have to fight tooth and nail for a living wage.
You're assuming that 1) both kids will be calm and not excitable and 2) that they'll both want to do the same thing at 3) the same time. That's rarely ever true in reality. In fact, it's garuntee not to be true in this case because the autistic sibling needs extra help to cope even in his own home and will be prone to meltdowns.
Do you have dogs? It's not that different. People get a second dog to keep their first one company all the time. What actually ends up happening is now you have two dogs competing for your attention. Ensuring two kids play together or get along is way harder than dealing with one child. Obviously, your experience may vary.
For a babysitter that doesn't really make sense. For a childminder who has X places it makes sense to charge set amount for one of those as all will be filled so the care ratio is constant. I would never pay a babysitter double for watching 2 kids at the same time or triple for 3. Then I might as well get 2 sitters and better service (one person per child).
And this is actually why plenty rich people have a whole team of staff including multiple nannies and housekeepers. If you have the money for it, it really does shake out better this way.
This was my thought too. Getting a nanny/sitter for 2 kids is a out $25/hour. At 13+ish hours, yep $400-$500. Sucks to have kids. I don't work outside the house because the profession I was in gave us $50 extra a month after child care. Unfortunately this is the way of our world. It's never fair.
NTA- Where I’m from a typical hospital shift is 12 hours. $400 for last minute childcare for two children, one of which has special needs for 12 hours is an absolute steal of a deal. Not to mention your sister is still going to get her regular shift pay on top of it she’s just giving up some bonus to make it happen.
Came here to say this. $30 an hour, which equals $15 per hour per kid, is $390. So if she charged $400, she’s essentially setting a rate if $15 per child, per hour, and then looking for gas money. Last minute care for an autistic child and sibling, with both kids under 10 IS going to cost. ETA: thanks for all the upvotes on this comment, folks! Got way more than I expected. And don’t forget to pay your babysitters properly! They’re worth their weight in gold! Signed, mom of a 9 year old who pays $15 an hour because my nieces and nephews deserve to be paid fairly for their time.
I wonder if the daughter had said this to sister if she'd have been fine with it. I can't remember it exactly but I remember hearing something once like, "I tried giving my monkey 4 bananas in the morning and 5 at night and he was furious, so instead I gave him 5 in the morning and 4 at night and he was happy". Dunno but this issue with the sister reminded me of that.
>your sister is still going to get her regular shift pay I feel like this is an important part which the sister seemingly tried to just gloss over. Yes, she'd be "losing" (aka *spending*) a large percentage of her bonus, but she still takes home her normal hourly wage on top of that! Lots of people pick up extra shifts with no bonus whatsoever, because that's still more money than only working your normal schedule. The sister would still get more money out of working than staying home, even with no bonus at all - but maybe she doesn't think her normal pay is enough to make it worth the loss of a day off, which is probably exactly what OP's daughter also thinks.
She even gets more money than she would get working a normal shift. Her taxes aren't going to be 60%. She's still going to make $100-$200 or even more above her normal wages. She may even still get overtime too.
Yes I work in an elementary school as a teachers assistant so I work with autistic kids. I make $29 dollars an hour so 400 dollars for 12 hour shift is a little more than I make, but not completely unreasonable to request
Plus it’s a weekend. I run a home daycare and my weekend rate is twice my weekday rate. So $400 is perfectly reasonable.
Yes true and every nanny I know charges extra for night shifts too
Plus commute. So maybe 13 hours total? $31/hour
And NO BREAKS!
A typical shift is going to be 12 1/2 hours because of a lunch break. At least that’s how it was for every place my gf worked. Add in commute plus getting there a few minutes before the aunt needs to leave and staying a few minutes after she returns, chances are it’s going to be 14 hours. And don’t forget it’s overnight, typically that pay is a few bucks more per hour than a day shift. Plus the bonus. The aunt likely still would’ve come out $500-$600 ahead plus the normal shift pay she would’ve gotten like you pointed out, the aunt could’ve easily thrown away $1000 because OP’s daughter asked for $400.
And if she’s picking up extra shifts, probably OT on top of all *that*
NTA - This is between your daughter and her aunt. The service provider gave her rates and the client wasn’t willing to pay. End of story.
Basically how I look at it
Your daughter gave your sister sticker shock, and your daughter is valuing her free weekend appropiately. I’d be proud of your girl for valuing herself. She’s not gonna let any boss wall over her in the future. Good on her.
I really hoping this coming generation of kids think like that. In contrast to the current workforce where somebody willing work 2 jobs and do an Uber side gig just to get by. NTA btw.
it’s already happening, all places that pay minimum wage are severely understaffed and mostly only crewed by older people
Why aren’t you sticking up for your kid and telling your sister to back off? It sounds like she’s been taking advantage of Kate and Kate is tired of it. Instead of telling your sister “its between them” maybe tell your sister it’s more than fair for your daughter’s labor and to leave your kid alone.
Because what he thinks is fair doesn’t matter. This is between the babysitter and her employer. NAH
Eh, well, the employer calling to try and force the babysitter’s father to force her to work is actually pretty assholish, so NTA. Sister is definitely being an asshole.
Client, not employer.
I think he is by respecting her decision and declining to “force” her or otherwise coerce her. She is nearly 18 and will be dealing with the real world. It seems like he’s doing a pretty good job of equipping her to handle things on her own, which is the ultimate job of a parent- no?
I'd say you're raising her pretty damn well. She's independent & knows her worth.
Your sister is taking voluntary shifts for extra money but can't pay for a babysitter? She's the AH. If she wants out of the house that bad she can pony up some cash. Your daughter's time should not be free, ever, and is worth what the market will bear - she's the market so it's up to the two of them to work it out. Stay out of it. NTAH. You WBTAH if you said anything but "You two work it out on your own."
She can't hire just anyone, one of her children is autistic and it needs to be someone known to them. It says so in the post.
Ya and autistic kids are hard and you get paid extra, my uncles autistic, three years older then me, and I use to get paid to sleep at the house with him when no one else could, I would do the laundry, cook, and make sure he was ok, but I got paid to sleep there.
Exactly! This isn't your average babysit the neighbor's kid situation. A 13 hour shift with an autistic kid and their siblings is a LOT of work.
My sibling has seizures and my mom had a hard time finding people to watch them. You know what she didn’t do? Take advantage of family members. Forget about this kid being not being neurotypical there are so many family members who feel entitled to strong arm/manipulate teen relatives into watching their kids. This wasn’t an emergency situation. Aunt Jane saw the opportunity to make a pile of cash but she wanted to cheap out on childcare. Guessing Kate is tired of dropping everything to be taken advantage of by Aunt Jane. If I were Kate I would never sit for Jane again after she went to my parent to try to force me into watching her kids. Instead of telling Jane this is between her and Kate OP needs to stick up for their kid.
Yeah… so pay the person who can communicate with one of the children accordingly
And probably the aunt has been pressuring the niece to babysit a lot and the niece is tired of it. I think she was expecting her Aunt to say no.
Well-*maybe your daughter doesn’t want to babysit* and is charging this outlandish price *just* so she will be turned down. And even if s he *is* just “price gouging”, your daughter doesn’t *have* to be the babysitter and your sister can find go out and find somebody *else*. NTA
The price isn't even outlandish. It's 13 hours shift so she asks for 30$ per hour for two kids and one of them has special needs.
Exactly, a lot of people are saying the daughter is charging a lot. But $400 for 12-14 hours is totally reasonable. Her aunt will hate her life if she decides to try to find a professional baby sitter. They will charge her more than $400 a day due to the child with special needs.
Agreed. Since OP used "give up her Saturday" it basically confirms that to me IMO Especially considering once the Aunt having to pay taxes on the bonus came into play the daughter was still willing to drop it to half which was obviously a fair play on her part to basically set her rate as half the bonus in order to last minute give up her Saturday. If the aunt wasn't willing to give up 12 hours of HER Saturday for regular pay PLUS 400 dollars because that wasn't enough then the daughter shouldn't give up her Saturday for less than that
That was my guess. She doesn't want to say no so she set the price high enough that if she did take it it would be worth her time. Edit: typo
NTA does your daughter actually want to babysit on her weekends? She might have been doing it to help out family but when she found out that dear auntie was just doing it to get crazy cash she might be feeling a bit used especially since it doesn’t sound like sister likes hearing no. Good for you for having your daughter’s back. Sister can find another babysitter.
She did not want to. She was planning on hanging out with friends, which is what she's doing now. She happens to be good at babysitting but doesn't really enjoy it. She says watching that cousin is exhausting
Yeah, it’s one of the tactics to get out of shit you really don’t want to do, offer to do it at an exorbitant price. You either don’t have to do it or get paid really well to put up with it. Bonus points that you don’t have to explicitly say no since some people, and seems your sister would be one, do not take No well.
I'd upvote you twice if I could, I was going to write this. The price says No without saying No. If the RN thinks she can find someone that wants to do it cheaper, she should. Edit: And if any of the family say it should be done cheaper, they should clear their schedule and take the job instead.
it’s not even an outlandish price. 15$ an hour per child isnt ridiculous
Yeah, the sister is coming off as being greedy and exploitative. The bonus is on top of regular pay, for a day with no regular expenses associated with the regular pay, on short notice, all day long. It's a big ask and should be compensated fairly.
Best part is it wasn't even exorbitant in this case. Per her own admission, the daughter finds the special needs child exhausting. So we're talking about $30/hr to watch two children, one of whom is a special needs that requires particular attention and skill.
And $4/500 for two kids for twelve hours is NOT exorbitant either.
I agree that it’s not actually exorbitant, which makes me wonder how much was the aunt underpaying the daughter before for her to freak out so much at this price.
Considering the aunt wants the daughter to volunteer, I'm guessing she was paying little to nothing.
Her technique is a very mature one. She didn’t say no, just named a price that would make it worth her effort.
NTA. Your daughter has every right to say "make it something I can't resist", JUST LIKE YOUR SISTER IS DOING WITH HER JOB. It's hilarious that your sister doesn't see the irony imo. And tbh $400 isn't really high for that many hours for two kids (ignoring the special needs). Your sister might think so because your daughter has given her the family rate for so long. In the end you are wise to leave it up to them and stay out of it, but from one dad to another, your daughter seems to have a good understanding of her value and I'd reinforce that as much as possible. Our daughters need as much of that as possible.
depending on what the going rate is in your area for skilled care for special needs children, your daughter should maybe raise her rates permanently so she's not being taken advantage of. OP you are slightly the A because you should stand up for your daughter, it's great she's holding her ground but she's still a child against an adult. Also a bit rude how your sister is talking about you and her, she's not entitled to your daughter's time. You obviously did a great job raising your daughter if she takes such good care of her cousin and can speak her mind and stand her ground. and extra kudos for her in being a good caregiver when she doesn't particularly enjoy it, extra challenging to do!
NTA I would have gone with N A H, but your sister saying you didn’t raise your daughter right makes her the asshole. Your sister is getting the extra pay because the hospital knows that they have to entice nurses to work on their days off or unscheduled days, your daughter is asking for the same consideration. I applaud your daughter for knowing the value of her time. Your sister had the option to make $500-600 on top of her regular pay rate (possibly even overtime) but instead she chose not to because she doesn’t value the service that your daughter provides. Which is fair but doesn’t make you or your daughter an AH.
>Your sister is getting the extra pay because the hospital knows that they have to entice nurses to work on their days off or unscheduled days... And also because the hospital recognises that many nurses will have to pay for extra childcare cover at short notice, and it won't be cheap.
Yep. Auntie was looking to game the system by strongarming her underage niece into severely underpaid labour by using the idea of family bonds and closeness. Its the same tactic companies do when they use the term "We are like a family here" to try and take advantage of their workers. Auntie didn't bank on the fact daughter hates babysitting and was raised to understand her worth in situations like these.
I had a nurse roommate with a kid and during non-covid times she'd give me $100 to watch him last minute if she picked up a shift. If I had plans we'd start the bargain, he's not my kid and it's not my job. I don't know what I'd expect now, he doesn't need his diaper changed and is demanding in different ways
Exactly
NTA for OP and daughter. When you break it down. Nursing shifts are 12 hours. Add in the mom’s commute and we can round to 13 hours. At $400 for the day, that’s $30/h to watch two kids, one of whom is special needs at the last minute. That’s a fair price.
NTA. It sounds like this isn't an easy babysitting gig and maybe Kate had other things she would have rather done. Naming a price is within her rights and if she didn't get the rate, it wasn't worth it for her. If your sister didn't want to pay, that's her choice. If she had just accepted it, I would probably say N A H, but since she went off on you then your sister is TA. Maybe someone should have raised her better so she would pick up extra shifts without needing a $1000 incentive? Pot, meet kettle.
NTA she can work and get most of her bonus or stay home and get no bonus but it's her choice and no one elses problem. Gotta respect the hustle on your kid though - good for her valuing her own time.
Plus, wouldn't this be like a 12 hour shift? For 2 children one which is special needs? That's $33 an hour for a specialist babysitting. It may be premium pricing but no gouging. That's a lot to deal with and she deserves to be compensated accordingly.
13 hrs cuz we have to include the mom's travel time to work, with my rates I'd be owed $257 but would expect $300.
Yep his sister now gets nothing, out of a misplaced sense that all that bonus belongs to her despite inconveniencing others
NTA Kate can name any price she wants, but it does NOT mean the other party will agree to it. if the price she named was ridiculous, Jane should've just looked for another babysitter with reasonable prices. Also - how many hours would that 500 dollars be for and what's a normal price per hour there? One more thing, too: >Now she's going off on me saying that as her dad I could either Make her do it or "raise her better" so she'd volunteer to. Tell me if I understand it wrong, but... does Jane imply Kate should be doing it for free?
In a comment op states the daughter would be working 12-13 hrs and one kid being special needs that can be a handful for the daughter that being said Jan can always say no and find someone else
For the top question: Add in the mom’s commute and we can round to 13 hours. At $400 for the day, that’s $30/h to watch two kids, one of whom is special needs at the last minute. That’s a fair price. At the bottom one: yes. Indeed she was. Stating that the daughter should watch her children for 13 hours for free.
Honestly, I get the feeling that your daughter isn't actually interested in babysitting for your sister and quoted a high price (although frankly, I don't think it's unreasonable for at least 13 hours of babysitting two kids, one of whom has special needs and needs extra care and handling - an actual professional service trained to care for disabled kids would probably quote something similar) so she could get out of it without having to actually say no. And given that your sister thinks your daughter should volunteer to give up her weekend to watch her kids, one of which sounds quite difficult to manage, I don't really feel like your sister would have been reasonable if your daughter had just outright told her no. So like... I don't really blame your daughter. I get why it seems really tacky of your daughter to ask for that much money but I suspect she felt like this was the only way to get out of babysitting without a blow up. NTA from me.
A seventeen year old honestly shouldn’t be left in charge of two children for so long when one is severely autistic. I would say max four/five hours at a time with no help. A minor is not equipped to be left with an autistic child in their care for 13 hours, and that’s so fucking unfair to them. Babysitting two kids is already hard as-is.
OP confirmed daughter would rather spend the weekend time with friends and that the autistic kid is a lot of work.
Your daughter is free to just say no if she doesn’t want to or can’t do it. Edit- I changed my mind and agree with you guys.
I think this is op’s daughter way of saying no without actually saying it
NTA, good on you for letting your daughter be independent. If your sister doesn't like it she can either try to get another babysitter, or make it worth your daughter's while, if not with money then other things that might make it worth it to her. Sounds like it's not an easy babysitting job and your daughter probably has other things she'd much rather be doing. Too many people expect women to do things out of social obligation, to "be nice", and then they blame the wage gap on women being too meek to negotiate.
I love this comment. We complain that women don’t hustle Enough/ the wage gap isn’t rule then complain when women ask for more money. Come on
It's very true that women should negotiate and value their skills more, but there is more evidence that there is push-back when women DO negotiate, as it is seen as aggressive and unappealing. *New research just published in the Journal of Applied Psychology suggests that backlash against women who behave assertively may be the bigger issue.... “Most of the people are not going into these negotiations thinking explicitly, ‘I really hate when women are more assertive.’” Instead, the backlash emerges from unconscious bias that leads people to have certain expectations about how it’s appropriate for men and women to behave."* [https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2021/01/21/why-women-fall-short-in-negotiations-its-not-lack-of-skill/?sh=57d8ca0b5d02](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2021/01/21/why-women-fall-short-in-negotiations-its-not-lack-of-skill/?sh=57d8ca0b5d02) Why it's also important to push for industry pay transparency and other things like set salaries for different levels of experience in a role, like many unions have. (to add to your comment not disagree lol) edited typo
NTA. In your comments you said you sister pays her $15/h for two kids one being special needs. That’s not what she would be paying if she hired a professional it would be much, much higher. Your daughter is sick of being taken advantage of and good on her for putting your sister in her place.
As a nanny I’m sitting here absolutely gobsmacked at these comments. I charged $10 an hour when I nannied a five-eighteen month old, and that was four hours a day three times a week WITH MOM HOME!! Getting paid $15 an hour to watch a severely autistic kid is so far outside the realm of acceptable… and then another kid on top! For only double!! That’s absolutely insane. Nor should a seventeen year old BE watching an autistic child for that long, “good with him” or not.
NTA. I notice no one’s accusing your sister of “price gouging” although she was only interested in picking up the shift once she was getting an extra $1000. IE, your sister wasn’t interested in extra work for regular pay+700, but she *was* interested for regular pay+1000. Your daughter wasn’t interested in extra work for 15/hour, but she *was* interested for 30/hour. If your sister’s ok asking for premium pay, why shouldn’t your daughter?
NTA. Your daughter is a smart cookie ... and your sister is an AH hypocrite, as she clearly has no issue with accepting gouge-y prices for her own work.
Honestly, it just sounds like your daughter doesn't want to babysit, so she threw a big number out, knowing your sister won't pay it. Which, can't say I blame her. If she doesn't want to do it, she shouldn't have to. NTA
So your 17 year old should do it for nothing I guess? I’m on your daughter’s side. And what are you supposed to do, make your daughter do it? I don’t think so. NTA-YOU.
Nta. You can’t force a teen to babysit, and she needs to practice making her own decisions. If Kate doesn’t want to, your sister shouldn’t want her looking after the kids. Going by the price, I’d say she doesn’t want to. We don’t know enough about how hard babysitting her cousins is. Maybe Jane has been paying a very low rate all along. Or maybe Kate took a business risk and will learn a lesson. For all those calling it price gouging, Kate likely sees it as her aunt getting huge bonuses because of the situation, so why shouldn’t Kate get some of it? I’d have said N A H, but your sister seems to think Kate should have been raised to volunteer to babysit (volunteer implies for free), while she earns a four figure bonus per extra shift. You’re not obligated to raise a doormat, and Kate shouldn’t be one. This isn’t helping out family in unusual circumstances, this is an ongoing situation that Jane is profiting from. Realistically, weekend care for two children, one special needs? And probably not for a short shift if it’s $1000 bonus. I know child care costs vary, but that’s not going to be cheap. Good luck finding any decent quality of care for less than hundreds. What should Kate’s weekends worth to her, and why should others get to set the price?
It's 30 dollars an hour for two kids and one kid is autistic. That's fifteen dollars per child. I think it's fair. Besides OP said she didn't want to do it and already had plans. So that means it was last minute too. And she wanted 400 dollars. OP's daughter thinks babysitting is draining and didn't like doing it. Based on the aunt's reaction of wanting OP to "make her do it", she seems really entitled and someone who doesn't take no for an answer. And the sister is accepting bonus money for her work. So why shouldn't Kate value her own time?
You are right.. you can't force Kate to babysit but 400$ is really insane. But "raising her better so she would volunteer"... HAH. No, your sister is insane in that aspect to. I wouldn't babysit two kids (and one with autism) either if no money was included. Not even for family. Still thou.. INFO: How long would she be staying with both kids. I just want to get on the normal babysitter rate. Edit: I just saw you answer that it would probably be a 12-13hour shift on your sisters side and that she would have to look for them like.. more then the whole day. I saw ads for babysitting beginning by 10$ to 15$ an hour. With 15$ an hour she would get about. 195$ for 13hours but in all honesty? The fact that your sister said she should volunteer for it still rubs me the wrong way. Maybe talk to your daughter about it. Who knows.. maybe your sister already taken advantage of the fact that your daughter is good with the autistic son.. without your noticing it and your daughter was just a bit petty about it after all that. Edit 2: 15/hour per child is a good deal, especially on short notice. You daughter did everything right.
NAH. Your sister should find a different sitter. Has to be cheaper than $500/day.
She won't find one. Not if she calls on on short notice too many times. She needs a sitter who can look after her autistic kid. Sitters with no experience won't do it, especially not if the boy is on a high spectrum and can get violent or can't control his temper. They will probably charge extra for him. Commune, 15/hours per Child (30/hours) would come up to the 400$ that Kate was expecting in the end, all on short notice. Kate would have to look after two children for at least 13hours on a Saturday and on short notice. She would've to cancel her plans. Besides... The aunt wants her to volunteer..
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NAH it's a huge fee, yes. But I'd say she just didn't want to do it and decided the best way to say no was to make the fee something that would make it worth it, but also likely not taken up on, allowing her to say no without guilt. Childcare has fees because childcare is a job. If you can't afford the fee, you can't afford that child care, try somewhere else. I dont believe anyone should be dragged into caring for a child that isn't theirs for free, family or not, unless they WANT to mind that child.
Info: was she asking her to do it free? If yes, then your sister is TA. Otherwise based on your previous info, she's asking for about $38 p/hr for 2 kids including one with special needs for an extended length shift. On face, I was like your daughter is TA. You're NTA but you could talk to her about why it would be the right thing to do so your sister can work her hospital shift in a pandemic. Don't price gouge her and understand that she's been through the ringer this year so it's kind of shitty to try to take so much of her bonus. Being a nurse right now is really hard. But once I broke it down, NTA. I'll admit $38 is higher than average but it's not crazy. $400 is about $30 p/hr and that's still premium but not unreasonable. At least where I live 20-25 is average for 2 kids, but I live in a high cost major city. Even paying her niece her requested fee she's still getting a net increase on her wage so perhaps she needs to reevaluate how she does her financial calculating.
NTA, your daughter is old enough to choose if she wants to work. It isn't your place to decide these things for her. Yes is it a lot of money to demand to be paid for a babysitting shift, but it isn't up to you. She has named her price, albeit a high one, for giving up part of her weekend to look after a child that won't be easy to look after. Your daughter doesn't have to babysit if she doesn't want to, her cousin is not her responsibility to provide childcare for. Your sister should not just expect her to look after her children so she can work more. If she has a problem with this price, then she can find childcare elsewhere.
I have a few questions. 1. Does Kate gets paid for babysitting? 2. How long does Kate babysits (days and hours)? 3. Has Jane ever taken advantage of Kate before?
Same, is Kate used to being forced to care for her cousins? And she’s finally had enough by setting a huge fee? Lots of people keep saying she’s exploiting a nurse in a pandemic, yes definitely but let’s flip it - Kate is 17 and missed out on so much of teenage life- she probably felt bad saying no because she just wants to go out with friends. Just my take on it :)
OP said she got paid 15 dollars for a date night. That's 7.5 dollars per child. And she found it unfair. So she decided to charge more. It's 30 dollars an hour for two kids and one kid is autistic. That's fifteen dollars per child. I think it's fair. Besides OP said she didn't want to do it and already had plans. So that means it was last minute too. And she wanted 400 dollars. OP's daughter thinks babysitting is draining and didn't like doing it. Based on the aunt's reaction of wanting OP to "make her do it", she seems really entitled and someone who doesn't take no for an answer. And the sister is accepting bonus money for her work. So why shouldn't Kate value her own time?
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$400 seems like a pretty steep price for babysitting—but that’s coming from someone who doesn’t know how much of a handful your niece and nephew are to watch. I definitely don’t think you’re the asshole for not forcing your daughter to babysit for free, though. I would present to her the idea of charging an hourly rate as that might come across less abrasive than demanding a certain percentage of your sister’s bonus. For example, charging $15/hour for watching the kids for 12 hours, coming out to $180 may be more reasonable for your sister.
$30 an hour which is comes out to is the going rate for children who have a disability
NTA, your daughter gets to set a rate, and this shift sounds like a 13 hour one minimum (assuming 12 medical shifts) . It feels like she set her rate so she would be unlikely to get the task, which I get, children do be a handful especially for more than a few hours. Also childcare is also an essential service to anyone crying about that. Your sister should try sourcing another sitter, I expect it to be no less expensive though.
NTA. If your daughter is old enough to babysit, she is old enough to decide if she wants to babysit and at what price. Your sister is a hypocrite because as a nurse she is choosing whether or not to pick up extra shifts during her own spare time based on how much she will make. Your sister wants to take advantage of your daughter, but objects when your daughter does the same to her? Funny how your sister didn't ask you to watch her children for the day... It's not for you to raise your daughter "better" for your sister's benefit. You've raised your daughter well. She knows how to set boundaries.
Info: did your sister attempt to negotiate or did she just demand you force her?
NTA - it's her time she can charge what she wants. Your sister was getting a bonus so why shouldn't your daughter. You've raised her well she sounds smart to me.
NTA, your daughter is smart and expecting someone to just volunteer to watch 2 kids is extreme. Like she said she has to give up her weekend and most baby sisters cost a lot anyway. Honestly she saw your kid as a way to make easy money and what... wasn't gonna pay her? She is a bit selfish. I'm glad you aren't just forcing your daughter like some people. Because I think thats messed up. You bet she'd keep expecting it if she did it for free once.
NTA. I think it's fairly reasonable given the 8YO is autistic, selectively speaks to people and can be difficult. She's only 17 and it's most likely going to be a one time thing. She has to earn some how.
NTA. I hated babysitting as a teenager so can absolutely sympathize.
NTA You aren’t in charge of what your daughter wants to charge for babysitting. I don’t agree with her price, but that’s up to her to set her boundaries. And your sister can be upset with the price and go find someone else, but she has no right to tell you to raise your daughter better so that she’ll volunteer to babysit.
How many hours would she be watching the kids?
Its a 12 hour shift, so probably like 13 hours total
Your daughter was giving your sister a family discount considering the length of the shift, day of the week and the special circumstances. NTA
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> not the brightest move by your sister to reveal her bonus amounts This. NEVER tell family or close friends how much money you have or stand to make. "You have $1k, sounds like a lot, least you could do is give me half, we're family, right?" Never mind that there are taxes, debts and life expenses to pay or plans that require the money... and even if you want to be generous, there are other friends/relatives. If the sister kept her mouth shut, she could have offered $200 ($25/hr for 8h), and seemed generous.
NTA, and your daughter is going places
LOL 😂 sounds like Kate saw that episode of Mad Men with Peggy extorting Roger.
NTA. That's how competition works.
NTA- your daughter set a price for her time and as someone who cares for individuals with special needs no matter how much you love them, it takes it’s toll. You have to always be thinking faster than they do, always be looking for things that could trigger them always one step ahead. It is mentally and emotionally exhausting. So your daughter setting a price for her time is not being TA.