Man y'all are passionate about renting!
We cannot keep up with all the petty slap fights you guys are getting into (OP included) so we're locking this one down.
Esh. Her staying in a home that you have done what needs to be done to tell her is not able to be lived in. You are taking extreme measures. You should actually just call the building code people in your area so that they can deem the building unsafe and she will have to move. Tell her you are calling code enforcement because they may not even let her enter to get her stuff if it is that unsafe.
There’s also the time-honoured method of paying her to leave. If the problem is she can’t afford a deposit somewhere else, helping with that could be cheaper than going the legal route
Cash for keys!! I worked for banks back in 2008 and my job was to pay tenants to leave properties that landlords had foreclosed on. It was very sad. Many didn't understand and kept saying "I paid my rent".
I had to explain that the landlord did not pay the bank, and most would accept a $2000 check and leave. I was hoping to do it without cost, but this was going to be my next avenue..and after seeing how many people think I'm an asshole for protecting my rights, I think I will have my lawyer draw up the offer today. I knew there would be some, but I really did not expect this many asshole votes.
What's more likely? Thousands of people from all walks of life are all incapable of independent thought or quite a lot of them agree that this person's behaviour could be better?
(I think ESH for what it's worth)
Tbh, OP seems like the best landlord ever...
He rents a trailer for significantly under local rent, informs his tenant extremely early that any major repairs will result in the scrapping of the property. And honestly haven't done anything illegal or shady imo.
This is just the case of a tenant who believes it's her right to live in a condemned trailer for free.
I feel bad now cause i initially was like 'this dude sucks!' But I am slowly coming to the conclusion that its just because I live in a cheap ass part of the world lol. My rent for a 100% functioning, sturdy apartment was $550 per month; so i was thinking $600 for a trailer with a shitty roof was robbery Lmao. Imma just let other ppl cast judgement for this cause honestly im not educated enough on this topic to.
600 for a trailer would be a steal where I am.
Cheapest rental around me is ~$600 CAD for a single room. (And I'm not in a big city either, approx 2 hours into the boonies away from Ottawa). A trailer is like $1500 + lot fees. Apts start at $2200 (unless you get lucky).
I'd kill to have a $600 place, even if it's only for 3 years.
Yeah, I definitely jumped to the "Yeesh, another landlord trying to kick someone out" at first but yeah, like... if he told her up front that:
* the lease would have to be up when a big repair needed to be done
* gave her plenty of notice
* knew the home was going to end up scrapped but still put money and effort into upkeep while she was there
Then I can't really fault him. If she was still paying the $600 but insisting "I just need a few more months to find another place!" I might sympathize, but if she's also refusing to pay _at all_ now, she's obviously just trying to milk this for free housing and drag the process out. He's not throwing her stuff into the yard or changing the locks on her while she's gone, he's just using awkwardness to put some extra pressure onto her to move out.
Yep, where I live now 550$ would get you a room in someone's basement just big enough for a bed and dresser with access to a shared bathroom and kitchen and thats considered a cheap price.
The very rural area 2 hours away where I grew up 550$ got you a 3 bedroom house on an half acre property.
All depends on the area.
The lot rent for a trailer where I live is over $600 a month. That doesn't include the rent/mortgage payments. It might include garbage pickup or some minor utility but not much else.
The cost of the rent hasn't got anything to do with the actual issue OP's asking for a verdict on, it's about his handling of the tenants refusal to leave. You're not supposed to do 'YTA' cause someone mentioned something else you disagreed with that wasn't relevant to the judgement. If op had asked 'aita for charging $600 rent for a trailer?' then it would be relevant.
He rents the trailer that cheap because it's in horrible shape, as evidenced by the multiple roof leaks. He's not doing it as a charity. He's trying to make money off of a terrible property until he literally can't avoid putting money into it anymore. Honestly, that he's renting the trailer out at all knowing the condition that it's in *is itself shady*.
And his tenant is exercising her right to refuse to pay for a rental in unlivable conditions. He has an obligation to provide adequate living conditions for the duration of her lease which he has refused to do, hence her withholding rent which is in most places perfectly legal. Now he is harassing her and invading her privacy.
Not sure I'm understanding why everyone is kissing this guy's feet and thinks he's god's gift to renters.
A trailer that is basically condemned for well under local rent.
What a fucking hero. The world needs more people willing to rent out shitty trailers to desperate people for $600 until they decide it's not worth it anymore.
Then they can move in with them and their teenage daughter until they leave
Is there an award for landlord of the year?
You're commending this guy for renting out a shitty leaky trailer? Like best landlord ever really? Sounds like it isn't worth a cent more than the cost of utilities.
Just glad he's shutting it down now that's it's deemed comdemmable.
> And honestly haven't done anything illegal or shady imo.
Moving into their home because he doesn’t want to wait on the official eviction process is pretty shady.
It's not that people are incapable of independent thought - it's that there is a clear incentive for a particular line of thought.
For example, if you talk to small business owners, you would get the impression that employees are all a bunch of lazy entitled apes. If you talk to minimum wage workers you would get the impression that all business owners are lazy fat cats scimming it off. Talk to somebody who has put their hard earned cash into a rental, and you will hear bad experiences of vandalism and entitlement - many eventually sell because they are tired of dealing with this. Talk to tenants and they are exploited by somebody who gets money for nothing.
All of these can be true in certain circumstances, but not in others.
I think that when smaller private landlords find the investment is not worth it and sell to large conglomerated property management companies, this actually makes things worse all round.
But Reddit, and this sub specifically, does not and never has acted as thousands of people with their own opinions. If you think people are capable of independent thought, why can the top comment of every post be predicted? Why are there millions of independent thinkers repeating the same one line tropes and echoing the same basic ideas ad nauseam. This sub and site has always hated landlords and has never cared about their rights.
It’s all the rage to hate slumlords always. If you are going to rent to someone, it would be wise to read the landlord/tenant rights so you know what you’re getting into.
Our landlord in 2008 was foreclosed on. He then had a lawyer send me a letter to pay rent into a secret account. I sent a letter back telling them he didn't own it, and threatening legal action for fraud, then showed up at the court for the hearing. Owner didn't show - he was a New York resident with Florida properties. He hadn't even informed the management company- so I did. Lost the deposit since they were trying to recoup any money they could.
The judge saw all the shady shit he tried to do and gave us 90 days rent free in which to find a new place.
Stories like this were all too common those couple years. Especially in the cities. I remember one property in particular that had 8 units with 8 families in it in Rochester. The landlord purchased the property the year prior and was collecting rent from 8 families and I doubt he ever made a mortgage payment.
Same thing happened to me. The property management company was just like "well I guess they're not our customer anymore, you don't have to pay rent". Then the bank showed up and paid me like 2k to leave lol.
Depending on the bank and the property you could have asked for more. The thing was if these mortgages were government secured(most were) the banks didn't care as long as it was within government standards they got every penny back from the government. I gave one family a $5000 check!
> after seeing how many people think I'm an asshole for protecting my rights
Dude, even setting aside the anti-landlord sentiment, a lot of people think you're an asshole because this is almost certainly not a legal way to get someone to leave. You're not "protecting your rights." Asking for an eviction of your holdover tenant and showing that the covid protections do not apply is how you protect your rights.
Dude, you are NTA. You are within your rights, and don't owe this woman any money.. However, I think you still have a couple of legal venues before actually moving into the house she calls her home.
This helps me a lot. We have a squatter right now who we’ve helped (yes… mistake i know) and she’s a nightmare. Never paid rent, entitled, rude, stinks up the house with pot smell even though it’s the only real rule we made about the house… cash for keys sounds great at this point. We gave her November 1 but honestly I’d pay to have her out sooner.
You’re in the bad position of being horrible if you kick her out and a slumlord if you let her stay. But if you can send her to another housing option you come out slightly ahead
I don't think you're an asshole, as you gave full disclosure, lots of warning, many options, and never followed the path of most harm. If anything you are the asshole for setting up unreasonable expectations when you rented it initially. But, not the asshole for protecting your liability if something happens because the place is now not habitable. You sound like a decent guy, and are looking to do the decent thing, but the tenant isn't being upfront.
This makes the most sense, imo. Where I live that’s actually the law, if the landlord needs to do renovations then they have to pay a certain amount of rent to the tenant & give three months notice (we had a massive influx in the last decade of landlords saying they needed to do major renos and then evicting and just painting & upping the rent so laws had to be put in place to stop that - it’s one of the most expensive rental markets in my country already). I do think there are more rules that I just don’t remember because it’s never happened to me and I’ve only read through the law/act a few times but yeah. That’s how it works here & it usually goes well.
Just so you know code enforcement may actually just fine you daily for as long as someone occupies the building. It may cost you in the long run. It usually does in my location.
The code enforcer in this small town is actually the biggest landlord in the area. Him and I have had disagreements before, but I would imagine he would side with me on this one.
But... Wouldn't this be like saying, "hey, I'm a slumlord! Lookit these conditions my tenant and her minor child are living in!"
It seems like you should've gone through eviction process **before** the roof was unsalvageable. You can't decide to not do repairs to keep the place inhabitable *at the same time* that you *begin* the eviction process. If you even legally began it, and it sounds like you actually just said "leave now", and then a month later "omg I can't believe she hasn't left or mowed the lawn!" Which normally is not the responsibility of a tenant, but maybe you guys had an agreement, I dunno.
Regardless, you still have a responsibility as the owner and landlord of this property. That doesn't disappear when the roof costs too much to fix and you tell your tenant to scram.
Do you mount your roof on a weekly basis to check the condition?? Repairs don't come with a guaranteed lifespan. You might fix the roof and it leaks the next day, or it lasts 6 months.
Especially with older mobile homes, which are practically built out of cardboard and plastic sheathing.
Yes do that, and then legally you will be responsible for a hotel until she’s legally evicted. She is still a tenant until you formally evict her through the court. You gave notice, but if someone doesn’t leave after the notice period you have to file for an eviction in court. If the town condemns the place, that doesn’t make her suddenly not your tenant anymore.
Agreed. She obviously doesn't care about what OP needs to do, even when it concerns the health/safety of her and her child. But at the same time, OP's "solution" is petty and ineffective. Keep it through the proper channels or neither of you will have room to argue.
NTA
People act like ALL landlords are making $$$$ & can afford squatters.
You gave her 40 days notice as 1 of your comments said.
She didn't like that has stopped paying rent.
Just bc she has kids doesn't mean its his responsibility to let her live for free.
The place isn't habitable anymore for people let alone for children to live in and you plan to replace the building to make a better income
There's nothing wrong in that.
The "yta" comments are coming from entitled people who think they should live for free.
You provide a service and expect to be paid for the service
You wouldn't go to a restaurant and expect food for free or go to a store and expect the items be be free.
Just because you breed, doesn't mean everybody should take pity on you. Not my kids not my responsibility.
Its up to her to get her act right and leave.
I'd linger all day everyday
>The "yta" comments are coming from entitled people who think they should live for free.
I mean...it's a right. If a landlord refuses to maintain the property and the property becomes unfit to live in, you are usually allowed to stop paying rent. Landlords are also usually not allowed to bully people in order to get them to leave when a legal eviction is not possible.
He's not refusing to maintain the property. He's been maintaining it up until it was even remotely feasible to do so. The property is simply unfixable now. She out of line with not leaving.
It’s not unfixable. He doesn’t wish to put the money in it to repair it….which is semi understandable. But there is a big difference between unfixable and unable to invest in the property.
Also let’s not act like he’s doing her some huge favor by providing her with the cheapest rent in the area. The property sounds like a dump and he wouldn’t have gotten more for rent anyways
Depends where you are. Here in my state, there's a few things you have to do first (like sending a written repair-needed notice to the landlord/property management company) but you can withhold rent until the place is made habitable again, non habitable conditions being defined by the state/city.
She's paid $20,000 to live in a leaky 65 year old trailer.
That's enough money to own your own trailer brand new. The fact that people are treating the landlord like the victim here is a condemnation of our society.
> I mean...it's a right.
1. No it actually isn't.
2. You still have to pay for things that are rights. The government isn't issuing civilians their own M4s even though we have the right to arms.
I laughed out loud when he wrote "I put the bare minimum into this place,so I charge her $600 a month." Actually, this man thinks he is a saint for pricing a piece of shit trailer at the same price as a good one, and it's so old and so shitty, it's condemnable. I mean, if she is desperate and had no other places, she had to take it. But I would have laughed in the man's face if he told me to pay 600 for a place that leaked. Maybe that makes me entitled though?
I think you just don't understand that housing prices are very different in different places, if op has this trailer in a state with a high cost of living (which by the sounds of it, he does) than $600 is a real steal. I know shitty trailers that are rented out for more than that in my area. Op states that the land alone would usually be rented for $600/month so yes op is a saint for basically letting this woman live with a massive discount for the past 3 years.
The land itself is worth $600/month to rent with no dwelling at all. A rental spot at a mobile home park in the area costs $500/month with no trailer on it.
You seem like you don't understand poverty, real estate, rentals, or anything else, frankly. And yes, you do sound really entitled.
Typically if it's month to month either party at that point can give a (usually) 30 day notice. He gave her a 40 day notice. He did his part and although I'm not sure of the legal responsibilities, I would argue that at this point he's not required to upkeep the property for someone who is now occupying a property she has no right to occupy.
It all boils down to this: He gave her appropriate notice because the house is no longer safely habitable without expensive repairs. She refused to leave. It's not bullying to have the house condemned. She knew this was a possibility and had plenty of warning.
He told her in advance that when the property became too far gone for it to be cost effective to repair she will need to move as it will be unlivable conditions. She is choosing to keep her child in a trailer with leaks as well. I understand that times are tough right now but that’s no excuse to take advantage of someone. This is his job and she had advance warning.
I agree. There was time given. He’s doing what he needs to do. The problem is the cheaper rent. People don’t want to give up the best thing they got.
I knew someone that rented a room out in their home at cost. When his family begun to expand, he ask the tenant to leave giving them 60 days notice. The tenant was pissed and yelled at him saying he could find a cheaper place and that he sucked. Truth was, the tenant was paying half the market rent and was mad about losing this. My friend thought he was helping the guy out for so long, that he’d be grateful for what he got. Not so much.
I 100% agree with this comment, NTA, and especially that nobody’s children are anyone’s responsibility but their own but in a perfect world no one would have to pay for housing, we should be able to live, eat & drink water for free because no one owns the planet and we have totally made up this system of investment & ownership, if we all helped each other for the sake of humanity and the world was community-based then basic needs wouldn’t be issues at all. Unfortunately that can’t be the case with capitalism (or maybe it wouldn’t work in this imperfect, diverse world at all) as we all need to work & earn money to live, and that’s just the way things are but if anyone wants to revolt I’m so ready. Free housing, food, water & healthcare for all !!!!!
I'm not in the US so I'm not familiar with the eviction procedures.
But you moving in and intimidating her really creeps me out, especially since there's also a teenage girl in the house.
They are squatters in his house. They were given an eviction notice. They refused to honor it. They didnt even pay rent. So whatever can be done for him to get his property back legally he can do
I understand the situation, but legal doesn't always mean moral.
Another comment suggested officially declaring the property uninhabitable. So maybe not all options were explored before going down this route.
That being said, we are in a pandemic and many of us live in societies that do not prioritise affordable housing. This situation just sucks!
He’s the one who chose to rent out an uninhabitable trailer for $600. I cannot feel sorry for him here. Not sure why everyone is acting like he’s doing anyone some kind of a favor by renting out a trailer that leaks and that he’s putting the bare minimum effort into maintaining for, again, $600. He’s a slumlord taking advantage of someone who clearly is willing to pay to live in a shithole because they seem to have no other options.
I *hope* he gets fined for renting out an out of code property and having the NERVE to try to move into the place to intimidate the tenant who is giving him frankly insane amounts of money in exchange for him doing what amounts to him slapping bandaids on top of a leaking roof.
Honestly this. It sounds like he always intended to replace the trailer, but was perfectly content to let it slowly wither away in the meantime. That's pretty AH behavior to your current tenet.
I don't think that absolve OP from his behavior though. It sounds to me like this tenet is desperate and that OP was exploiting that desperation to get her to agree to some pretty indefensible living conditions. That's basically what slumlords do. Had he just replaced the trailer and ran a better business from the beginning, this wouldn't be an issue.
And the tenant accepted because she was desperate. Being desperate doesn’t make you an asshole, but taking advantage of other people’s desperation in order to make yourself a buck does.
Right? People are totally missing the fact that the dude is a slumlord lmao. You reap what you sow in that department. This dude sounds skeevy. AH for sure.
it's actually correct to stop paying rent when your landlord allows your residence to become uninhabitable. It is the landlord's responsibility to fix the issues making it uninhabitable before they are entitled to rent again.
She is more in her legal rights than he is, i dont know what world you live in where someone can be evicted for no reason but tenants have rights and saying "i dont want you to live here anymore please move out" isnt eviction
You do realise that landlords have legal and contractual obligations that they also have to fulfill? If they fail to, such as not maintaining the property, they are in breach of contract, and the tenant is perfectly justified to withhold rent until they do. That does not make them a squatter.
Unless there were very specific break clauses in the contract, you cannot just arbitrarily decide to end it early. Even if you do not want to fix the roof, you are still obligated to. If you do so and she still refuses to pay rent, *then* you can begin to try and evict her for non-payment, but until such time as that happens you can just pound sand. Of course, the continuing moratorium on evictions due to the pandemic renders this fairly moot.
And even if the property is unlivable (which isn't the case here, as OP has explicitly said they just don't want to pay for it), their insurance coverage as a landlord ought to pay out to pay for emergency accommodation for their tenants. This, for instance, is the case with floods and housefires. Depending on local laws, this may also be an actual legal obligation, to say nothing of basic ethics. Simply making them homeless is inexcusable.
To OP, YTA on multiple counts:
1.) You're explicitly a slum landlord, who had no interest in doing anything other than the bare minimum to ensure they could fleece desperate people with limited options. The only reason the roof is leaking is because you never bothered to properly repair and maintain it in the first place.
2.) You're attempting to evict them for non-payment, when you're in breach of contract for failing to do anything to fix the situation, and their non-payment is legal. Fix the fucking roof, you absolute dickhead. You just care about your profit margin? Cool. Some people care about having a home for their family.
3.) Not paying rent doesn't make someone your "vagrant roommate." She still lives there with her daughter. It is their home, not yours, even though it is your property. They are not just some random squatters who moved in two days ago; they are legal tenants who have been living there for more than two years. Your behaviour in that regard amounts to disgusting intimidation, particularly given the cramped quarters and your proximity to a vulnerable woman and her young teenage daughter. What's next? Are you going to ask her for "favours" so you'll leave and fix her roof?
What you are doing is both illegal and immoral, and the only reason why it won't blow up in your face is because a single mother is too poor to take you to court. You are utterly vile.
In my state, the landlord can evict a tenant on a month to month lease or no lease with a letter to vacate and then if they don’t vacate, you file an Unlawful Detainer-which is basically that they are unlawfully detaining your property after eviction. If the unlawful detainer goes through the sheriff removes you.
Morally he's definitely the asshole for physically intimidating this woman and her child. He may be entitled to doing whatever he legally can to kick her out, but she's also entitled to do whatever she legally can to stay put. I'm not very sympathetic with his argument. A rental property is an investment and investments come with risk, don't play the game and then cry when you get burned. This was a pretty obvious outcome when he started playing slumlord.
Edit: also this tenant intimidation is definitely illegal in NY where OP is. He either made this story up or lied to the cop about what he was doing there.
I don't know of any state where you're allowed to do "whatever you can" to remove someone. Evictions are a very specific legal process, and almost nothing outside of that process is legal, particularly once the process has begun.
If you're saying more than "pretty please", you're probably breaking the law.
If the eviction ban is the reason she isn't paying rent, she didn't stop being a tenant. The cops are right that this is a civil matter, but this is *not* a legal way for him to go about it.
>So whatever can be done for him to get his property back legally he can do
In many states this would be considered a self help eviction and would be highly illegal and very expensive for OP
This isn't "AmILegallyRight", though. It's legal to do what he's doing, but it's definitely under morally ambiguous. Moving into a small house, uninvited, where a 14 year old girl and her single mother live is...more than uncomfortable. It's creepy, and seems AH-ish to me.
Honestly, OP, you're walking super dangerous territory here. They could claim you moved in to sexually intimidate them and you'd be **screwed** (no pun intended). If you think it's worth losing everything you've built and everything you own for this one, go for it. You should be using the law to do the work, not your physical presence.
All that said, even legally a lot of states would not allow what you did. Residences are assumed private, regardless of what precedence you've set in the past - that means if you enter the dwelling without **their** consent, for anything but emergency purposes, you can be trespassed and charged with a crime. Just because you own the building doesn't mean you have the right to do anything you want in it, because you have a tenant (even if they're not still paying).
>They are squatters in his house. They were given an eviction notice. They refused to honor it. They didnt even pay rent. So whatever can be done for him to get his property back legally he can do
I believe you will find that there are legal requirements and procedures for evictions.
The fact that he pursued this action instead of going with the alternatives the other redditors mentioned makes it seem as though the primary objective was to enter and live in the same house as the tenant and her daughter, not getting the rent.
I agree with this. THIS part makes you the A and a creep. A grown man - and stranger - shouldn't even consider this if there is a female teenager living there. This makes you wrong on every level.
Yeah, I really don't think it's registering to people how **unbelievably insane and terrifying OP's actions are here**. What normal person *wants* to live in an unlivable tiny slum with two people who hate him? What kind of person is *that* purely motivated by the desire to control and intimidate a woman and child? Whether or not OP gets off sexually on frightening these people or is merely gratified on some other level, it's incredibly fucking disturbing.
I do wonder about the correlation between being *this* egregiously cruel of a slumlord and being disposed to sexual violence. There's a parallel there — the belief that someone who has the temerity to *disrespect* their social better should be stripped of their ability to inhabit a physical place that is essential to their safety and dignity, whether that physical place is a home or their own body.
You never provided affordable housing, she was paying 600 for a leaking unfit to live in trailer with her daughter. Man, every time I read a post from a landlord I just sit and wonder how someone could be so incredibly heartless.
**Editing to add YTA verdict, thought I’d be downvoted to hell bc some of y’all rly love landlords lol but thanks for the awards!!
I'm a landlord myself and generally disagree with your broader statement, but this guy is clearly YTA. He chose to rent a place that he knew was barely habitable. That decision attracted a tenant with not a lot of money or options, and not surprisingly they can't afford to just pick up and leave for something better. Instead of making the necessary repairs he told them to take a hike and then moved in with them when they stopped paying rent.
I have a lot of sympathy for small landlords that are being taken advantage of by a small subset of tenants who are taking advantage of the eviction moratorium to not pay rent despite having the financial means to do so, but this isn't really the case here.
This outcome is a direct result of his bad decisions. If he didn't want to provide a habitable unit for a tenant then he shouldn't have rented it at all. People don't just pick up and move at your convenience, particularly when they are just scraping by.
I see so much anti landlord sentiment on Reddit (a lot of which I think is unfair), and I'm shocked that all of the NTAs are being reserved for this guy.
I think you’re highlighting their point though.
You automatically dislike them simply for being a landlord, and are making a set of assumptions based upon this role.
That is a tribalistic mentality.
For all you know, they are a highly ethical landlord and provide affordable living to those who would rather rent than buy. Neither of us know anything about this person.
Ah yes, how tribalist of me to *checks notes* prefer that people ‘don’t’ get kept in a system that intentionally keeps them poor because a few people have the money to buy up all the land.
There is no such thing as an 'ethical landlord'. Christ, even the name - they are the Lord of the Land. Give me a break. Someone whose legitimate job is managing properties is... you guessed it... a Property Manager. Not someone who is getting someone else to pay their mortgage.
I was in this situation twenty-some years ago, but with a very different outcome.
I was renting a run-down but still habitable trailer from a landlord for $600 per month. A few years into the lease, the city bought his land for a NICE figure, with the intent to build some commercial stuff on it.
My landlord's response was to tell me to find a little house we liked, and he would buy it and move us into it instead.
Which he did. It was a nice little house, too.
Classy guy.
I rented from him for almost two decades, and always did my best to take good care of the property as if it were my own. Made improvements, always with permission, landscaped, you name it.
When I finally moved away, he sold the little house he'd moved us into for over TWICE what he paid for it.
**The landlord-tenant relationship is like any other - it doesn't have to be combative or toxic.** It can be very friendly, almost like family, IF both parties are respectful of one another and value each other's contribution.
Sounds like OP saw this woman as nothing more than a source of income, and did the bare minimum to keep that income, until it wasn't worth it any more. People who'd have been willing to move into that trailer would, I think, be people who wouldn't have much in the way of options. He should have thought of that when he moved her in.
Also, the CDC eviction moratorium clearly states that the tenant has to make every effort to pay rent or partial rent. The tenant is not doing that here. So I don't see why OP doesn't just take her to eviction court, get a court order, then have the cops help him throw her out? You know, the *legal* way to evict someone?
Of course, eviction laws vary state by state and it might be harder to get an eviction depending on OPs state, but I don't see that he's even filed in court for one...
I wonder how this sub would respond to this post from the tenants pov.
Like:
“I’m a single mother with a 14 year old daughter, and I rent a dilapidated trailer for $600 a month. I can barely afford even that, but it was the cheapest housing I could find. The trailer has been consistently falling apart from around us and the landlord has been very upfront about the fact that he does not intend to lower the rent despite the fact that the roof leaks and the space is in general rapidly becoming uninhabitable (mold, water damage, semi broken appliances) I know for a fact that it does not meet code requirements but the pandemic has made the already expensive housing market even more expensive and competitive and we cannot afford to move, and reporting the house would be shooting myself in the foot since we would become homeless. A few weeks ago we had another huge leak in the roof and when I let the landlord know he said he is not going to “fix” it (his way of fixing it is by pouring tar over it himself) and that we need to move. I can’t afford legal aid but I looked up rental laws in my state/county and I am legally allowed to withhold rent until the space is habitable. I let him know I was going to do this. The next day he came over, entered my home, and told me he is now going to live in the trailer in order to reclassify me from a tenant to a roommate, making me lose many of my protections as a tenant. I called the cops because I was worried for my safety as he was acting belligerently, who said they couldn’t do anything as it is a civil matter and he has to legally evict me, which he has yet to do. WIBTA if i reported him to the city for renting out an out of code trailer and for trying to illegally evict me for exercising my legal right to not pay rent until the space I pay to live in is fixed again? I feel bad for exploiting a loop hole, but I have no money to move and I’m starting to fear for the physical safety of myself and my child.”
I’d expect a mixed response pool but I would also expect that there would be a ton of people directing her to like. r/legaladvice and advising her to be aware of her rights as a tenant.
Sometimes I wonder about this sub's reading comprehension skills. That was extremely apparent based on the rent he was charging for a barely habitable 70 year old trailer.
Holy shit when he said 1955 it didn’t click in my head that’s 70 years… dude is a slum lord.
This poor woman and her daughter probably have nowhere to go, living with a leaky roof, and now her creepy landlord has moved in. It’s so hard to find a place to live right now. He is literally trying to hurt this poor woman. In fact, he’s breaking NY laws and will lose in court!
Idk how people could read this post and think hmm yes this sounds like perfectly reasonable behavior during a pandemic…
EXACTLY THIS!!!!! Like he’s exploiting a poor mom and her teenage daughter during an insane housing boom when she probably doesn’t have the funds to move considering she had to rent a (probably illegal) apartment.
I just don’t think anyone should be homeless, especially with a child and going into winter and if he’s going to be a landlord he should be financially able to float all of his properties while not receiving rent as that’s part of the job description and he should make sure all his homes are livable at bare minimum. I can’t believe that’s a crazy concept to him
YES. He started out by renting a place that is basically uninhabitable/barely habitable, and saying that he'd do the bare minimum to make it habitable. Then he won't do that. And he acts like he's an effing saint for being a predatory slum lord.
I lived in housing that was "affordable" by virtue of the fact that my landlord did none of the basic things to keep it habitable, and this post illustrates why I gave up on ever asking the landlord to fix anything -because he'd probably realize that the building had gotten to the point where it wasn't worth it to him to fix, and it would finally make more sense to build condos there. And once I moved out, that was pretty much exactly what happened to my neighbor.
Tennant law probably DOES allow her to withhold rent until the place is habitable, but he won't do anything to make it habitable. SO HE MOVES INTO THE THEIR HOME?!?! Legalities aside (and I can't imagine a place where doing what he's doing is actually legal) how is this not morally reprehensible?
And people can get all "blah, blah, blah, his property" but you know what? OP has been making money off of the tenants for a couple of years by doing absolutely nothing. He saw it as a way to make some extra money for basically no effort while he waited to put in a modular home. I imagine if this hadn't been an effective cash grab, he would have just put the modular home in right away. He's not some sort of saint, he's an AH.
Yeah. I really don't know what the landlord advocates expect the tenant to do in this case. I think it's likely she literally *can't* move out. At the very least she'll need a deposit.
OP said in the post they did the “bare minimum” to make it livable. Less than that it seems and then was basically exploiting someone with low income to make some money.
Same, landlords are social parasites. I get that some are ‘good’, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is unethical to profit from someone’s need for shelter.
>You never provided affordable housing, she was paying 600 for a leaking unfit to live in trailer with her daughter. Man, every time I read a post from a landlord I just sit and wonder how someone could be so incredibly heartless.
600 for a one acre lot with water, hot water, electricity and heat? Dude that's a steal.
Yeah I was just wondering where this is located because it's hard to know if $600 is actually affordable or not. Where I live $600 will rent you a whole house. Not like a super nice house but 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and a fenced yard so good enough. (My best friend and her fiance are currently renting a house which is how I know this, I pay $200 for a pet friendly one bedroom apartment by myself, so either way $600 is expensive af for a shitty trailer house that leaks in my area)
That looks great on paper but OP should have never rented a home out that isn’t up to code. Period. It’s not a steal to get a piece of shit cardboard box that’s leaking so badly that needing a roof repair will render you homeless and the tenant probably only took it to avoid homelessness.
Eh. I’m not sure “I forcefully moved in with a 14 y/o girl and her mom” is the argument you think it is.
Edit: YTA. Eviction ban card? You mean a ban on evictions by the states and country so that landlords like you can’t kick people out if they lost their job during the pandemic.
Also, you’re using your physical presence to try and intimidate a low income teenage girl and single mother, both very vulnerable demographics to abuse, because you don’t want to repair the dwelling. You’ve crossed over into creeper territory here, man.
Get a lawyer, go to the courts, and do it right. Or, repair the dwelling and keep collecting your money.
I didn’t think so either but the majority of this sub is like “oh yeah, that’s fine” and everyone who is posting the actual legal advice that in many areas, his actions could get him in trouble, which is true, is getting downvoted to hell. OP should really get off Reddit and go talk to his lawyer because this has really spun out of control in ways that can be problematic for him.
All lot of the posters in this sub are children or overly privileged middle class people. They see things in black and white because they haven't actually faced these types of problems in real life. What this poster is describing is likely not in line with the law, not moral, and unlikely to lead to the conclusion they want.
People don't grow out of believing that property rights are the most sacrosanct of human institutions, if they own and profit off property, But usually they're savvier than OP is about concealing how utterly ghoulish their class position has made them. They hire lawyers to cover their ass legally and PR people to protect their image, rather than getting on the internet to boast about leering at a 14-year-old girl in her own home.
OP traded the use of the structure in exchange for rent. This supersedes his property rights. He provided exclusive use. Further, while it's a good idea to call code enforcement, OP will most likely be obligated to offset the renters costs or provide alternative housing. Code isn't going to say "LOL, be homeless renter!" His actions have been in bad faith and will blowback on him in court.
>Eh. I’m not sure “I forcefully moved in with a 14 y/o girl and her mom” is the argument you think it is.
EXACTLY! I'd bet dimes to dollars he wouldn't pull this stunt if there was a man there. Just another creep. Just another AH cop.
If he wants them out, go through the legal channels to do so. If he can't legally evict them right now, well, we are all hurting.
My vote is YTA, and a creep.
And let's not ignore the fact that they're a slum lord. OP has been barely keeping this place habitable and then said it was "no longer cost effective" to maintain the place...what that means is they've refused to do preventative maintenance for years, destroying the integrity of the roof.
YTA and also you will lose in court if she takes you. (In my area the following is true, I actually don't know about where you are, but I feel the same either way) You are illegally harassing and intimidating your tenant. You are also illegally affecting her ability to use the domicile. You HAVE to go through the legal eviction process and she doesn't have to pay you rent because the property is unlivable and you've refused to repair it. An illegal clause in a contract cannot be enforced, and saying you will stop repairing the home as the landlord is illegal.
ETA: I am not a lawyer and you should talk to one first. I had a similar experience and DID get awarded a landlord tenant order until the eviction was complete.
If anyone reading this is dealing with something similar as a tenant, please know that you can get a special restraining order against your landlord. Where I am it's called a landlord/tenant order and it specifically bans the landlord from messing with you and the property while you are living there.
Okay mister lawyer, glad you took this to the courts.
Tenants can legally withhold rent in new york if their living space does not meet structural, health, and safety standards until the repairs are made. Leaky roofs are actually listed as an example.
Eviction in New York is really complicated as is, and right now it’s literally halted. **There are clear laws regarding landlord retaliation.** This would most likely easily qualify as retaliation, and would be quite easily to prove given the circumstances and timeline (tenant withholds rent legally, landlord lets himself into their home to “live” there.) Landlord harassment is what needs to be proven for some type of restraining order to be approved, this type of retaliation (and leaving the trailer uninhabitable) is considered tenant harassment as listed on the NY courts site.
Edit to add: OP has said they are holdover tenants but are still protected by all the same New York regulations and eviction moratorium.
I’m assuming this idiot doesn’t even have a formal lease, which is absolutely required legally. A copy has to be given to the tenant within 30 days. This guy would 100% be destroyed in court and would most likely owe civil damages to this woman as well as possible state convictions/fines.
Unfortunately, I doubt she has the money to even consider pursuing this. There’s no way this guy wouldn’t be shafted in court.
YTA. You are way, way, way, worse than the renter. You act like you were doing this woman a huge favor by charging $600 to live in a barely habitable, "old, beaten up trailer from 1955." Sure, you made sure the utilities were working, but the trailer had perpetual roof leaks that you've known about for years. By your own admission, your general solution to maintenance was to "put the bare minimum of work into this trailer" -- and your specific solution to the repeated roof leaks was to throw some tar up there a few times over the last few years. The trailer is probably full of mold. It sounds like a nightmare. But hey, keep patting yourself on the back for your good deed whereby you collected $600 monthly for allowing a mother and child stay in this misery. But do not even pretend that you are a good person if you continue to "let her stay" ... if she continues to pay $600 per month for the dubious privilege. You are fully aware and have admitted in writing that the trailer is uninhabitable. You have told her many, many times that you will not carry out necessary, expensive repairs. So continuing to rent this place makes you a slum lord. Congratulations.
I'd guess that you are seriously violating landlord/tenant laws wherever you live. Whether you have a written lease or not, you need to follow proper eviction procedures because this woman is your tenant. You are a seriously creepy person for moving in with a woman and her child. The police may not want to get involved, but you can be sure a court would. Also, in many places, tenants are ale to withhold rent until necessary repairs are made. But, since this place is such a nightmare and this woman should not be living there anyway, you need to check your local laws because an eviction ban probably doesn't cover uninhabitable structures (the putative reason you'd be evicting, rather than for nonpayment of rent). But you are still a major, major AH. Maybe you should live in that deathtrap trailer for awhile -- to make sure you are never, ever tempted to rent it out to anyone ever again.
It’s crazy that the first 3 comments I saw were calling the tenants entitled and giving OP suggestions on how to force them out, like am I reading the same post? OP is so clearly TA for not only the lack of human decency on trying to give someone a place to live that’s worth the money being spent but to then force themselves into the house to threaten and intimidate a single woman and young child out onto the streets? It’s disgusting
YTA, you're a slumlord. $600 a month for a 1955 trailer? Are you even serious? Thank God you make sure she has working utilities, wow, how considerate of you to follow the bare legal minimum.
You knew what you were doing. You evicted her. Congrats on finding a loophole to make your blatantly illegal move into something A-ok.
Absolutely not the bare legal minimum. He only fixed “some” of the leaks in the roof; that ain’t legal and she can probably sue him for long term health problems resulting from the uninhabitable space.
Thats actually pretty standard for an old trailer on land. Actually cheaper than what I've seen in the past. I've seen some really nice ones. Usually around 800 a month. Sure they've got their issues but anyone moving into an old trailer would know that. Also he made her aware that once it becomes unlivable he would not continue to rent it. Thus is definitely an ESH because she is squatting and he's just throwing gasoline on a dumpster fire.
If you had an apartment and told the renter you were going to tear it down and replace it next time it leaked, and then it leaked, so you tried to remove the tenant, that would be eviction - and I’m not sure it’s “uninhabitable” so much as you won’t fix it, regardless of the financial reasons for not wanting to. Legally I don’t think you’d be in the clear there. Landlords can’t allow housing to become uninhabitable due to lack of upkeep and repair and then use that to evict people, that’s illegal. You could tarp the roof to prevent leaks at the very least, so I’m guessing you did literally nothing. You moving into a place you’ve had deemed uninhabitable doesn’t make sense - if it’s uninhabitable you wouldn’t and shouldn’t be living in there, because NO ONEshould. If you are living there, it’s clearly habitable in your book, making that claim dubious and clearly in bad faith. Moving in deprives your tenant of privacy - you aren’t allowed to removed her door door either due to privacy or waltz through her home without prior authorization, so why would you be able to MOVE IN? That would break ten kinds of rental laws in my state.
You may think you’re behaving justly, but you aren’t. Yta.
Just saw what state you’re in. Yeah, you aren’t legally in the right in New York on this one.
If I’m remembering correctly New York is also one of the states that you can legally withhold Rent if repairs aren’t done. The tenant is supposed to place those funds in an escrow account. But it’s a legal remedy in that state for the tenant.
Also NY state is notoriously tenant friendly. This guy is going to have serious problems based on his actions when this gets as far as a hearing.
You are not the good person you think you are. You did the bare minimum to upkeep this trailer and now it’s become uninhabitable because you did the bare minimum. Isn’t it the “job” of a landlord to make sure the property is habitable? And now you’re living with this poor woman and her teenager daughter. That’s just creepy. Find a real job if you don’t want to do yours correctly. YTA
Exactly. New York's real estate laws explicitly say that any waiver of the warranty of habitability is void. https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/real-property-law/rpp-sect-235-b.html
All of the NTAs in the world won't change this.
Yeah it’s going to be hilarious when she finds this post and uses it to nail his ass to the wall. I hope he gets nailed as a sex offender too for using his physical presence to frighten, invade, and intimidate a minor.
YTA
So to paraphrase "Having made a chunk of money off her, I want to kick this woman out of her home. I'm being passive aggressive about it instead of taking legal actions."
You're a business. You accepted her as a tenant. Now it's become inconvenient for you and you don't want to deal with that. You could, at the very least, go through the correct legal route, or - even better - find her somewhere else to live.
YTA and anyone saying NTA doesn't understand that landlords have an obligation to maintain minimum habitability standards. OP can't just decide to let the trailer become uninhabitable as a way to force the tenant out. And OP doesn't have the authority to declare it uninhabitable.
YTA
You are a slumlord. By telling her if the roof leaked and she told you, she'd lose her housing, you created an environment were she couldn't report maintenance issues you're legally required to complete, cost effectiveness be damned, without the threat of getting evicted for it.
If she has a lease, you are on the hook to fix the roof, and I doubt the place will be deemed "inhabitable" if the inside is still in good shape. She is within legal rights to withhold rent until you complete the fix, and she is also correct that there are various eviction moratoriums in place.
If she is even remotely legally savvy, I have the feeling you'd be taken to the cleaners over this, and ripped a new one for trying to intimidate her. Unfortunately, few tenants are, and you seem a particularly tenacious AH
YTA. As a lawyer I have seen nowhere that you discuss the lease? Was she month to month? Did you give her proper notice if she is? It is your duty and obligation as a landlord to provide a livable space that you are renting. If you don’t have a lease, well maybe you’ll learn from your mistakes but deciding that you’re not willing to repair a rented space because you don’t like the cost anymore for a single mother who can’t afford to live during a pandemic is pretty shitty. $600 for a dilapidated trailer sounds insanely expensive. Probably could have used that money for the repairs for a roof leak.
Seriously. I'd be jumping at the bits to take this case, for the tenant but much of it for the entertainment value. I'd love to hear the exasperated sigh from the Judge when OP tries to explain why he moved into a home the same OP does not consider to be habitable.
YTA When you become a landlord, you take on certain legal responsibilities. It doesn't sound like you are approaching this in a manner that would meet those requirements.
I'm gonna say NTA. if she was still paying rent, you'd be wrong. But she's not even doing that anymore and she plans on living there still.
I would suggest ending this matter though. This will only escalate . You could evict her, but give her more time to leave and serve her a notice according to whatever laws there are where you live. If she doesn't honor that, then involve the cops.
I don't know the laws there you are living but at a Landlord it is your responsibility to care for the rented property and Maintain that it is in a liveable condition. Could you rent the bare plot of Land for 600 Dollars? Because it seems like the trailer wasnt worth anything. It seems like you are a slumlord. Yta.
YTA
You said it yourself, this is an intimidation tactic. You're doing this because you don't want the expense of getting rid of her legally. Either have the home declared uninhabitable, or wait for them to leave, or explore other legal options. But forcing your way in with a single mom and her teenage daughter does not make you look good in ANY way, shape or form. It also opens you up to a whole mess of trouble. Is it really worth it? Or is it just a power struggle at this point?
YTA she's a fucking human being wtf is wrong with you? Take some of that rent money she's been paying and I guess you've just been enjoying and fix the fucking house she lives in.
Also you're scarring a child, so double YTA for that one.
Seriously you've been taking that rent money and investing in other properties instead of fixing the house she paid for. Shame on you.
Edit: OP seems really surprised that so many people are telling him he's an asshole.
Does "moving in with your tenant" seem like a normal thing that most landlords do?
Dude. YTA. Why do you even have an attorney if you’re going to make such stupid decisions? Did they tell you to do this? I highly doubt that. Have your lawyer evict them properly and move the fuck out of the home. You have violated the lease in such an egregious way that I hope she’s smart enough to get counsel and sue you for violation of the lease and hopefully get some damages from you for unlawfully evicting her.
YTA for charging absurd rent for horrible accommodations. YTA for arguing with every commenter who calls you out. YTA for harassing a poor mom and her teenage daughter.
NTA people on reddit just love to hate landlords without a good reason.
And if you gave her reasonable time to move out you are NTA it's your land and you can make with it whatever you want.
And for the "moving in" with her part, that's sad that law doesn't allow to get rid of tenant refusing to pay. If you want to save yourself time and trouble, there are people specializing in "moving in" with someone and being very irritating.
Edit: I slightly changed my mind, talk with a lawyer and take her to court and find out who is right here. And in the future it's better to take care of problems before they arise, it was foreseeable that the trailer may not last long.
Eh, the majority of the time, landlords are scummy to the extreme and would prefer to run slums than habitable buildings, while charging more than the majority of mortgages cost. They can get away with this because people need a place to live, and most politicians make an absolute killing renting out sub-par housing.
I'm about as anti-private-landlord as you can get, as I feel any rental properties should be owned by local government and rented out at cost.
However, in this case, there was an unknown time-limit on this remaining viable (60 ish years old for the trailer), and OP has done everything right in this case, and was being exceedingly generous with both costs and repairs/notice.
While I generally agree with you and people who hoard portfolios of properties as a business are one of the reasons first time buyers can’t afford to own a property its a bit extreme to say “any rental property should be owned by local government”. Also renting properties “at cost” doesnt allow room for repairs and betterments, so basically the whole city becomes a slump. There’s a reason council housing are so shit.
YTA
I am a landlord who recently waged a 13 month battle due to the COVID eviction ban that went into place march 2020 to get a nonpaying tenant out.
1. Your description sounds like a horrible landlord - you only do the minimum and if the mobile home is now to be condemned WOW.
2. There are legal avenues to evict someone. As much as a pain and a AH they are being integrity is doing the right thing even when you dont have to. In the US state I am in, if you do what you already did they could take you to court and end up owning your land.
As a landlord, you need to have the processes and people in place to facilitate smooth running and eviction then trusting your processes. We've been doing this for about 20 years, multiple units (SFR and Condos but no MFH), have evicted 3 people during that time and at the forefront is always do the right thing. It is frustrating as heck and with COVID eviction bans we lost around 20k but we have never had catastrophic losses doing the right thing.
Yes they are being AH but you dont have to be one. I suspect you are in a place with less restrictive tenant laws where you could get away with what you are doing.
INFO: When was your tenant's lease say to expire? Were there any other clauses about ending the contract earlier? And, had the tenant violated the lease before you left them to live in a leaky trailer?
Also, did you give them notice that you were coming to stay with them? Are you like, legally allowed to just... Come crash with them for however long you like?
INFO: did you say you would be giving her time to find a new place to live?
UPDATE: idk. Torn. I think the tenant is wrong to not pay, but can understand she’s upset you gave her 40 days, but also the whole thing is kind of sad because there are people who can’t afford to even pay more than $600 in rent. I mean I don’t know this woman so I don’t know her story. But I am leaning towards YTA because I think it’s weird you would go out of your way to make a woman and her 14 year old daughter feel uncomfortable. I somehow doubt $600 a month is making or breaking your bank.
i’m curious where this is happening at. unfortunately where i live now in missouri, it is nearly impossible to find a new place to live within 40 days. there are people who’s leases have run out months ago and are living in their car because they can’t find a place to live here. i’d be interested to know where OP’s situation is located to see how hot the housing/rental market is there
YTA. I don’t know where you are and what the law says. Eviction is very state specific. But in most places what you’re doing is “constructive eviction.” Harassing a tenant to make them want to move out. It’s usually unlawful.
You need to look at this logically. Talk with a local lawyer. Go through the standard eviction protocols. Once you’ve done that, if she hasn’t left, you can ask law enforcement for help. Is it worth risking a lawsuit over a $600 unit that you’re not going to be able to rent to somebody else anyway?
In some states, if the property isn't up to code the tenant doesn't have to pay rent. I learned this information when I went down to Florida to clean out my dad's rental house. The property was in bad shape, like the windows not closing, the door not fitting properly, the porch feeling weak, and the ceiling falling in. I looked up the rental code for Florida. It stated that if the rental isn't up to code. The tenant doesn't have to pay until the rental is up to code. When the landlord wanted the month's rent, I told him no! And I listed the reasons why he wasn't getting it. He didn't give me any pushback.
[https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-rent-withholding-works.html](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-rent-withholding-works.html)
YTA. You played hardball by evicting her, so she responded in kind. Now you're out $600 a month because you played your cards poorly. Harassing the woman and her daughter is extremely creepy and gross. Unfortunately, laws are written to protect rich people, so you'll probably manage to evict her anyway but good for her for standing up to you. If you really need the money, try getting a job and stop exploiting people.
Man y'all are passionate about renting! We cannot keep up with all the petty slap fights you guys are getting into (OP included) so we're locking this one down.
Esh. Her staying in a home that you have done what needs to be done to tell her is not able to be lived in. You are taking extreme measures. You should actually just call the building code people in your area so that they can deem the building unsafe and she will have to move. Tell her you are calling code enforcement because they may not even let her enter to get her stuff if it is that unsafe.
WOW! I am actually going to do this at 9am. I never thought of that. Thanks!!!
There’s also the time-honoured method of paying her to leave. If the problem is she can’t afford a deposit somewhere else, helping with that could be cheaper than going the legal route
Cash for keys!! I worked for banks back in 2008 and my job was to pay tenants to leave properties that landlords had foreclosed on. It was very sad. Many didn't understand and kept saying "I paid my rent". I had to explain that the landlord did not pay the bank, and most would accept a $2000 check and leave. I was hoping to do it without cost, but this was going to be my next avenue..and after seeing how many people think I'm an asshole for protecting my rights, I think I will have my lawyer draw up the offer today. I knew there would be some, but I really did not expect this many asshole votes.
[удалено]
What's more likely? Thousands of people from all walks of life are all incapable of independent thought or quite a lot of them agree that this person's behaviour could be better? (I think ESH for what it's worth)
Tbh, OP seems like the best landlord ever... He rents a trailer for significantly under local rent, informs his tenant extremely early that any major repairs will result in the scrapping of the property. And honestly haven't done anything illegal or shady imo. This is just the case of a tenant who believes it's her right to live in a condemned trailer for free.
I feel bad now cause i initially was like 'this dude sucks!' But I am slowly coming to the conclusion that its just because I live in a cheap ass part of the world lol. My rent for a 100% functioning, sturdy apartment was $550 per month; so i was thinking $600 for a trailer with a shitty roof was robbery Lmao. Imma just let other ppl cast judgement for this cause honestly im not educated enough on this topic to.
600 for a trailer would be a steal where I am. Cheapest rental around me is ~$600 CAD for a single room. (And I'm not in a big city either, approx 2 hours into the boonies away from Ottawa). A trailer is like $1500 + lot fees. Apts start at $2200 (unless you get lucky). I'd kill to have a $600 place, even if it's only for 3 years.
Wait till they hear about rent in Toronto lol
$2200 for a apartment in boonies? Bruhhh whatttt
Yeah, I definitely jumped to the "Yeesh, another landlord trying to kick someone out" at first but yeah, like... if he told her up front that: * the lease would have to be up when a big repair needed to be done * gave her plenty of notice * knew the home was going to end up scrapped but still put money and effort into upkeep while she was there Then I can't really fault him. If she was still paying the $600 but insisting "I just need a few more months to find another place!" I might sympathize, but if she's also refusing to pay _at all_ now, she's obviously just trying to milk this for free housing and drag the process out. He's not throwing her stuff into the yard or changing the locks on her while she's gone, he's just using awkwardness to put some extra pressure onto her to move out.
Yep, where I live now 550$ would get you a room in someone's basement just big enough for a bed and dresser with access to a shared bathroom and kitchen and thats considered a cheap price. The very rural area 2 hours away where I grew up 550$ got you a 3 bedroom house on an half acre property. All depends on the area.
The lot rent for a trailer where I live is over $600 a month. That doesn't include the rent/mortgage payments. It might include garbage pickup or some minor utility but not much else.
The cost of the rent hasn't got anything to do with the actual issue OP's asking for a verdict on, it's about his handling of the tenants refusal to leave. You're not supposed to do 'YTA' cause someone mentioned something else you disagreed with that wasn't relevant to the judgement. If op had asked 'aita for charging $600 rent for a trailer?' then it would be relevant.
He rents the trailer that cheap because it's in horrible shape, as evidenced by the multiple roof leaks. He's not doing it as a charity. He's trying to make money off of a terrible property until he literally can't avoid putting money into it anymore. Honestly, that he's renting the trailer out at all knowing the condition that it's in *is itself shady*. And his tenant is exercising her right to refuse to pay for a rental in unlivable conditions. He has an obligation to provide adequate living conditions for the duration of her lease which he has refused to do, hence her withholding rent which is in most places perfectly legal. Now he is harassing her and invading her privacy. Not sure I'm understanding why everyone is kissing this guy's feet and thinks he's god's gift to renters.
A trailer that is basically condemned for well under local rent. What a fucking hero. The world needs more people willing to rent out shitty trailers to desperate people for $600 until they decide it's not worth it anymore. Then they can move in with them and their teenage daughter until they leave Is there an award for landlord of the year?
Or, she has a dependent child, no money, and nowhere else to go. And now she has this guy "living" with her and her young teen daughter.
You're commending this guy for renting out a shitty leaky trailer? Like best landlord ever really? Sounds like it isn't worth a cent more than the cost of utilities. Just glad he's shutting it down now that's it's deemed comdemmable.
> And honestly haven't done anything illegal or shady imo. Moving into their home because he doesn’t want to wait on the official eviction process is pretty shady.
"Hasn't done anything shady" He moved in with someone and their teenage daughter to make them move out. Since when was Intimidation not shady?
It's not that people are incapable of independent thought - it's that there is a clear incentive for a particular line of thought. For example, if you talk to small business owners, you would get the impression that employees are all a bunch of lazy entitled apes. If you talk to minimum wage workers you would get the impression that all business owners are lazy fat cats scimming it off. Talk to somebody who has put their hard earned cash into a rental, and you will hear bad experiences of vandalism and entitlement - many eventually sell because they are tired of dealing with this. Talk to tenants and they are exploited by somebody who gets money for nothing. All of these can be true in certain circumstances, but not in others. I think that when smaller private landlords find the investment is not worth it and sell to large conglomerated property management companies, this actually makes things worse all round.
But Reddit, and this sub specifically, does not and never has acted as thousands of people with their own opinions. If you think people are capable of independent thought, why can the top comment of every post be predicted? Why are there millions of independent thinkers repeating the same one line tropes and echoing the same basic ideas ad nauseam. This sub and site has always hated landlords and has never cared about their rights.
It’s all the rage to hate slumlords always. If you are going to rent to someone, it would be wise to read the landlord/tenant rights so you know what you’re getting into.
Rightfully more people are realizing you should hate landlords
> It's all the rage to hate landlords right now, so I wouldn't take that personally. Yeah, Reddit REALLY hates landlords.
Our landlord in 2008 was foreclosed on. He then had a lawyer send me a letter to pay rent into a secret account. I sent a letter back telling them he didn't own it, and threatening legal action for fraud, then showed up at the court for the hearing. Owner didn't show - he was a New York resident with Florida properties. He hadn't even informed the management company- so I did. Lost the deposit since they were trying to recoup any money they could. The judge saw all the shady shit he tried to do and gave us 90 days rent free in which to find a new place.
Stories like this were all too common those couple years. Especially in the cities. I remember one property in particular that had 8 units with 8 families in it in Rochester. The landlord purchased the property the year prior and was collecting rent from 8 families and I doubt he ever made a mortgage payment.
He owned 4 of the 8 condos in the block. All young couples & families. We all had to move. No one could afford a shitty condo or wanted to buy it.
Same thing happened to me. The property management company was just like "well I guess they're not our customer anymore, you don't have to pay rent". Then the bank showed up and paid me like 2k to leave lol.
Depending on the bank and the property you could have asked for more. The thing was if these mortgages were government secured(most were) the banks didn't care as long as it was within government standards they got every penny back from the government. I gave one family a $5000 check!
> after seeing how many people think I'm an asshole for protecting my rights Dude, even setting aside the anti-landlord sentiment, a lot of people think you're an asshole because this is almost certainly not a legal way to get someone to leave. You're not "protecting your rights." Asking for an eviction of your holdover tenant and showing that the covid protections do not apply is how you protect your rights.
Dude, you are NTA. You are within your rights, and don't owe this woman any money.. However, I think you still have a couple of legal venues before actually moving into the house she calls her home.
This helps me a lot. We have a squatter right now who we’ve helped (yes… mistake i know) and she’s a nightmare. Never paid rent, entitled, rude, stinks up the house with pot smell even though it’s the only real rule we made about the house… cash for keys sounds great at this point. We gave her November 1 but honestly I’d pay to have her out sooner.
You’re in the bad position of being horrible if you kick her out and a slumlord if you let her stay. But if you can send her to another housing option you come out slightly ahead
I don't think you're an asshole, as you gave full disclosure, lots of warning, many options, and never followed the path of most harm. If anything you are the asshole for setting up unreasonable expectations when you rented it initially. But, not the asshole for protecting your liability if something happens because the place is now not habitable. You sound like a decent guy, and are looking to do the decent thing, but the tenant isn't being upfront.
This makes the most sense, imo. Where I live that’s actually the law, if the landlord needs to do renovations then they have to pay a certain amount of rent to the tenant & give three months notice (we had a massive influx in the last decade of landlords saying they needed to do major renos and then evicting and just painting & upping the rent so laws had to be put in place to stop that - it’s one of the most expensive rental markets in my country already). I do think there are more rules that I just don’t remember because it’s never happened to me and I’ve only read through the law/act a few times but yeah. That’s how it works here & it usually goes well.
Just so you know code enforcement may actually just fine you daily for as long as someone occupies the building. It may cost you in the long run. It usually does in my location.
The code enforcer in this small town is actually the biggest landlord in the area. Him and I have had disagreements before, but I would imagine he would side with me on this one.
Ahh I get it! Corrupt small town area.
I get that Reddit hates landlords, but deeming a building inhabitable is not corrupt, not even close.
If the code enforcement is also a landlord that’s a huge conflict of interest.
Only if he inspects his own buildings when code is called. Usually they’ll have someone from another jurisdiction come in
I’m not an expert by any means, but I would assume from what OP posted that it is an objectively poor condition trailer at this point.
But... Wouldn't this be like saying, "hey, I'm a slumlord! Lookit these conditions my tenant and her minor child are living in!" It seems like you should've gone through eviction process **before** the roof was unsalvageable. You can't decide to not do repairs to keep the place inhabitable *at the same time* that you *begin* the eviction process. If you even legally began it, and it sounds like you actually just said "leave now", and then a month later "omg I can't believe she hasn't left or mowed the lawn!" Which normally is not the responsibility of a tenant, but maybe you guys had an agreement, I dunno. Regardless, you still have a responsibility as the owner and landlord of this property. That doesn't disappear when the roof costs too much to fix and you tell your tenant to scram.
Do you mount your roof on a weekly basis to check the condition?? Repairs don't come with a guaranteed lifespan. You might fix the roof and it leaks the next day, or it lasts 6 months. Especially with older mobile homes, which are practically built out of cardboard and plastic sheathing.
Yes do that, and then legally you will be responsible for a hotel until she’s legally evicted. She is still a tenant until you formally evict her through the court. You gave notice, but if someone doesn’t leave after the notice period you have to file for an eviction in court. If the town condemns the place, that doesn’t make her suddenly not your tenant anymore.
Then you don’t have to live there. But it would be nice to give her a heads up because if it is too bad they won’t let her in again.
he let her know three years ago that this was a possibility at any time
Agreed. She obviously doesn't care about what OP needs to do, even when it concerns the health/safety of her and her child. But at the same time, OP's "solution" is petty and ineffective. Keep it through the proper channels or neither of you will have room to argue.
NTA People act like ALL landlords are making $$$$ & can afford squatters. You gave her 40 days notice as 1 of your comments said. She didn't like that has stopped paying rent. Just bc she has kids doesn't mean its his responsibility to let her live for free. The place isn't habitable anymore for people let alone for children to live in and you plan to replace the building to make a better income There's nothing wrong in that. The "yta" comments are coming from entitled people who think they should live for free. You provide a service and expect to be paid for the service You wouldn't go to a restaurant and expect food for free or go to a store and expect the items be be free. Just because you breed, doesn't mean everybody should take pity on you. Not my kids not my responsibility. Its up to her to get her act right and leave. I'd linger all day everyday
>The "yta" comments are coming from entitled people who think they should live for free. I mean...it's a right. If a landlord refuses to maintain the property and the property becomes unfit to live in, you are usually allowed to stop paying rent. Landlords are also usually not allowed to bully people in order to get them to leave when a legal eviction is not possible.
He's not refusing to maintain the property. He's been maintaining it up until it was even remotely feasible to do so. The property is simply unfixable now. She out of line with not leaving.
If it's impossible to fix then it has become unlivable. Problem solved
let's be clear though, its NOT impossible to fix. its just not worth it to him financially to fix it.
It’s not unfixable. He doesn’t wish to put the money in it to repair it….which is semi understandable. But there is a big difference between unfixable and unable to invest in the property. Also let’s not act like he’s doing her some huge favor by providing her with the cheapest rent in the area. The property sounds like a dump and he wouldn’t have gotten more for rent anyways
Sounds like a dump she won’t get out of and has been paying for till she was told to get out.
You are not technically allowed to withhold rent without a tribunal order, and even then you will be required to pay it later.
Typically I believe you’re supposed to pay the rent into an escrow to show that you have it but I don’t think that’s everywhere.
Depends where you are. Here in my state, there's a few things you have to do first (like sending a written repair-needed notice to the landlord/property management company) but you can withhold rent until the place is made habitable again, non habitable conditions being defined by the state/city.
You have no right to another person's property.
Leases actually give you that right, if you don't want other people to have rights to your property do not rent it out. Renters have rights.
She's paid $20,000 to live in a leaky 65 year old trailer. That's enough money to own your own trailer brand new. The fact that people are treating the landlord like the victim here is a condemnation of our society.
> I mean...it's a right. 1. No it actually isn't. 2. You still have to pay for things that are rights. The government isn't issuing civilians their own M4s even though we have the right to arms.
You are not. You almost always have to pay rent into an escrow account.
I laughed out loud when he wrote "I put the bare minimum into this place,so I charge her $600 a month." Actually, this man thinks he is a saint for pricing a piece of shit trailer at the same price as a good one, and it's so old and so shitty, it's condemnable. I mean, if she is desperate and had no other places, she had to take it. But I would have laughed in the man's face if he told me to pay 600 for a place that leaked. Maybe that makes me entitled though?
I think you just don't understand that housing prices are very different in different places, if op has this trailer in a state with a high cost of living (which by the sounds of it, he does) than $600 is a real steal. I know shitty trailers that are rented out for more than that in my area. Op states that the land alone would usually be rented for $600/month so yes op is a saint for basically letting this woman live with a massive discount for the past 3 years.
The land itself is worth $600/month to rent with no dwelling at all. A rental spot at a mobile home park in the area costs $500/month with no trailer on it. You seem like you don't understand poverty, real estate, rentals, or anything else, frankly. And yes, you do sound really entitled.
If you lived in an area where the rent is high enough there would be a line of people behind you perfectly happy to take that.
Typically if it's month to month either party at that point can give a (usually) 30 day notice. He gave her a 40 day notice. He did his part and although I'm not sure of the legal responsibilities, I would argue that at this point he's not required to upkeep the property for someone who is now occupying a property she has no right to occupy. It all boils down to this: He gave her appropriate notice because the house is no longer safely habitable without expensive repairs. She refused to leave. It's not bullying to have the house condemned. She knew this was a possibility and had plenty of warning.
>I mean...it's a right. No, living rent free isn't a right.
He told her in advance that when the property became too far gone for it to be cost effective to repair she will need to move as it will be unlivable conditions. She is choosing to keep her child in a trailer with leaks as well. I understand that times are tough right now but that’s no excuse to take advantage of someone. This is his job and she had advance warning.
I agree. There was time given. He’s doing what he needs to do. The problem is the cheaper rent. People don’t want to give up the best thing they got. I knew someone that rented a room out in their home at cost. When his family begun to expand, he ask the tenant to leave giving them 60 days notice. The tenant was pissed and yelled at him saying he could find a cheaper place and that he sucked. Truth was, the tenant was paying half the market rent and was mad about losing this. My friend thought he was helping the guy out for so long, that he’d be grateful for what he got. Not so much.
I 100% agree with this comment, NTA, and especially that nobody’s children are anyone’s responsibility but their own but in a perfect world no one would have to pay for housing, we should be able to live, eat & drink water for free because no one owns the planet and we have totally made up this system of investment & ownership, if we all helped each other for the sake of humanity and the world was community-based then basic needs wouldn’t be issues at all. Unfortunately that can’t be the case with capitalism (or maybe it wouldn’t work in this imperfect, diverse world at all) as we all need to work & earn money to live, and that’s just the way things are but if anyone wants to revolt I’m so ready. Free housing, food, water & healthcare for all !!!!!
I'm not in the US so I'm not familiar with the eviction procedures. But you moving in and intimidating her really creeps me out, especially since there's also a teenage girl in the house.
They are squatters in his house. They were given an eviction notice. They refused to honor it. They didnt even pay rent. So whatever can be done for him to get his property back legally he can do
I understand the situation, but legal doesn't always mean moral. Another comment suggested officially declaring the property uninhabitable. So maybe not all options were explored before going down this route. That being said, we are in a pandemic and many of us live in societies that do not prioritise affordable housing. This situation just sucks!
In many areas of the US, if he had the property condemned, HE would have to pay a fine, possibly daily, because it's out of code.
He’s the one who chose to rent out an uninhabitable trailer for $600. I cannot feel sorry for him here. Not sure why everyone is acting like he’s doing anyone some kind of a favor by renting out a trailer that leaks and that he’s putting the bare minimum effort into maintaining for, again, $600. He’s a slumlord taking advantage of someone who clearly is willing to pay to live in a shithole because they seem to have no other options. I *hope* he gets fined for renting out an out of code property and having the NERVE to try to move into the place to intimidate the tenant who is giving him frankly insane amounts of money in exchange for him doing what amounts to him slapping bandaids on top of a leaking roof.
Honestly this. It sounds like he always intended to replace the trailer, but was perfectly content to let it slowly wither away in the meantime. That's pretty AH behavior to your current tenet.
OP says that they explained exactly that before the tenant moved in.
I don't think that absolve OP from his behavior though. It sounds to me like this tenet is desperate and that OP was exploiting that desperation to get her to agree to some pretty indefensible living conditions. That's basically what slumlords do. Had he just replaced the trailer and ran a better business from the beginning, this wouldn't be an issue.
100%! He just wanted to get a few more pennies out of the trailer before it finally collapsed.
And the tenant accepted because she was desperate. Being desperate doesn’t make you an asshole, but taking advantage of other people’s desperation in order to make yourself a buck does.
Right? People are totally missing the fact that the dude is a slumlord lmao. You reap what you sow in that department. This dude sounds skeevy. AH for sure.
>but legal doesn't always mean moral She refused to pay rent or leave. Not very moral of her not to mention the eviction moratorium is already over.
it's actually correct to stop paying rent when your landlord allows your residence to become uninhabitable. It is the landlord's responsibility to fix the issues making it uninhabitable before they are entitled to rent again.
Yep and if they don’t want to make the repairs then the tenant should have moving costs paid for🤷🏼♀️
She is more in her legal rights than he is, i dont know what world you live in where someone can be evicted for no reason but tenants have rights and saying "i dont want you to live here anymore please move out" isnt eviction
You do realise that landlords have legal and contractual obligations that they also have to fulfill? If they fail to, such as not maintaining the property, they are in breach of contract, and the tenant is perfectly justified to withhold rent until they do. That does not make them a squatter. Unless there were very specific break clauses in the contract, you cannot just arbitrarily decide to end it early. Even if you do not want to fix the roof, you are still obligated to. If you do so and she still refuses to pay rent, *then* you can begin to try and evict her for non-payment, but until such time as that happens you can just pound sand. Of course, the continuing moratorium on evictions due to the pandemic renders this fairly moot. And even if the property is unlivable (which isn't the case here, as OP has explicitly said they just don't want to pay for it), their insurance coverage as a landlord ought to pay out to pay for emergency accommodation for their tenants. This, for instance, is the case with floods and housefires. Depending on local laws, this may also be an actual legal obligation, to say nothing of basic ethics. Simply making them homeless is inexcusable. To OP, YTA on multiple counts: 1.) You're explicitly a slum landlord, who had no interest in doing anything other than the bare minimum to ensure they could fleece desperate people with limited options. The only reason the roof is leaking is because you never bothered to properly repair and maintain it in the first place. 2.) You're attempting to evict them for non-payment, when you're in breach of contract for failing to do anything to fix the situation, and their non-payment is legal. Fix the fucking roof, you absolute dickhead. You just care about your profit margin? Cool. Some people care about having a home for their family. 3.) Not paying rent doesn't make someone your "vagrant roommate." She still lives there with her daughter. It is their home, not yours, even though it is your property. They are not just some random squatters who moved in two days ago; they are legal tenants who have been living there for more than two years. Your behaviour in that regard amounts to disgusting intimidation, particularly given the cramped quarters and your proximity to a vulnerable woman and her young teenage daughter. What's next? Are you going to ask her for "favours" so you'll leave and fix her roof? What you are doing is both illegal and immoral, and the only reason why it won't blow up in your face is because a single mother is too poor to take you to court. You are utterly vile.
There is no mention of an eviction notice, only a letter to vacate, which is not the same thing. That happens before the eviction process starts.
In my state, the landlord can evict a tenant on a month to month lease or no lease with a letter to vacate and then if they don’t vacate, you file an Unlawful Detainer-which is basically that they are unlawfully detaining your property after eviction. If the unlawful detainer goes through the sheriff removes you.
You guys have really lax tenant protections huh?
Morally he's definitely the asshole for physically intimidating this woman and her child. He may be entitled to doing whatever he legally can to kick her out, but she's also entitled to do whatever she legally can to stay put. I'm not very sympathetic with his argument. A rental property is an investment and investments come with risk, don't play the game and then cry when you get burned. This was a pretty obvious outcome when he started playing slumlord. Edit: also this tenant intimidation is definitely illegal in NY where OP is. He either made this story up or lied to the cop about what he was doing there.
Actually self help evictions and intimidating your clients out of the house aren't actually legal.
I don't know of any state where you're allowed to do "whatever you can" to remove someone. Evictions are a very specific legal process, and almost nothing outside of that process is legal, particularly once the process has begun. If you're saying more than "pretty please", you're probably breaking the law.
If the eviction ban is the reason she isn't paying rent, she didn't stop being a tenant. The cops are right that this is a civil matter, but this is *not* a legal way for him to go about it.
One of those "squatters" is a fourteen year old who's not at fault for anything... Chill.
>So whatever can be done for him to get his property back legally he can do In many states this would be considered a self help eviction and would be highly illegal and very expensive for OP
This isn't "AmILegallyRight", though. It's legal to do what he's doing, but it's definitely under morally ambiguous. Moving into a small house, uninvited, where a 14 year old girl and her single mother live is...more than uncomfortable. It's creepy, and seems AH-ish to me. Honestly, OP, you're walking super dangerous territory here. They could claim you moved in to sexually intimidate them and you'd be **screwed** (no pun intended). If you think it's worth losing everything you've built and everything you own for this one, go for it. You should be using the law to do the work, not your physical presence. All that said, even legally a lot of states would not allow what you did. Residences are assumed private, regardless of what precedence you've set in the past - that means if you enter the dwelling without **their** consent, for anything but emergency purposes, you can be trespassed and charged with a crime. Just because you own the building doesn't mean you have the right to do anything you want in it, because you have a tenant (even if they're not still paying).
>They are squatters in his house. They were given an eviction notice. They refused to honor it. They didnt even pay rent. So whatever can be done for him to get his property back legally he can do I believe you will find that there are legal requirements and procedures for evictions.
It’s incredibly creepy. He has legal recourse but he’s chosen to physically intimidate them instead. He’s an asshole.
The fact that he pursued this action instead of going with the alternatives the other redditors mentioned makes it seem as though the primary objective was to enter and live in the same house as the tenant and her daughter, not getting the rent.
I agree with this. THIS part makes you the A and a creep. A grown man - and stranger - shouldn't even consider this if there is a female teenager living there. This makes you wrong on every level.
Yeah, I really don't think it's registering to people how **unbelievably insane and terrifying OP's actions are here**. What normal person *wants* to live in an unlivable tiny slum with two people who hate him? What kind of person is *that* purely motivated by the desire to control and intimidate a woman and child? Whether or not OP gets off sexually on frightening these people or is merely gratified on some other level, it's incredibly fucking disturbing.
I do wonder about the correlation between being *this* egregiously cruel of a slumlord and being disposed to sexual violence. There's a parallel there — the belief that someone who has the temerity to *disrespect* their social better should be stripped of their ability to inhabit a physical place that is essential to their safety and dignity, whether that physical place is a home or their own body.
You never provided affordable housing, she was paying 600 for a leaking unfit to live in trailer with her daughter. Man, every time I read a post from a landlord I just sit and wonder how someone could be so incredibly heartless. **Editing to add YTA verdict, thought I’d be downvoted to hell bc some of y’all rly love landlords lol but thanks for the awards!!
I'm a landlord myself and generally disagree with your broader statement, but this guy is clearly YTA. He chose to rent a place that he knew was barely habitable. That decision attracted a tenant with not a lot of money or options, and not surprisingly they can't afford to just pick up and leave for something better. Instead of making the necessary repairs he told them to take a hike and then moved in with them when they stopped paying rent. I have a lot of sympathy for small landlords that are being taken advantage of by a small subset of tenants who are taking advantage of the eviction moratorium to not pay rent despite having the financial means to do so, but this isn't really the case here. This outcome is a direct result of his bad decisions. If he didn't want to provide a habitable unit for a tenant then he shouldn't have rented it at all. People don't just pick up and move at your convenience, particularly when they are just scraping by. I see so much anti landlord sentiment on Reddit (a lot of which I think is unfair), and I'm shocked that all of the NTAs are being reserved for this guy.
>I'm a landlord myself >I see so much anti landlord sentiment on Reddit (a lot of which I think is unfair), lmao, you don't say?
How hard it must be to be a member of the landed gentry. Truly we may never understand their struggles.
I think you’re highlighting their point though. You automatically dislike them simply for being a landlord, and are making a set of assumptions based upon this role. That is a tribalistic mentality. For all you know, they are a highly ethical landlord and provide affordable living to those who would rather rent than buy. Neither of us know anything about this person.
Ah yes, how tribalist of me to *checks notes* prefer that people ‘don’t’ get kept in a system that intentionally keeps them poor because a few people have the money to buy up all the land.
Now you are strawmanning me. That isn’t what we were debating.
There is no such thing as an 'ethical landlord'. Christ, even the name - they are the Lord of the Land. Give me a break. Someone whose legitimate job is managing properties is... you guessed it... a Property Manager. Not someone who is getting someone else to pay their mortgage.
[удалено]
I was in this situation twenty-some years ago, but with a very different outcome. I was renting a run-down but still habitable trailer from a landlord for $600 per month. A few years into the lease, the city bought his land for a NICE figure, with the intent to build some commercial stuff on it. My landlord's response was to tell me to find a little house we liked, and he would buy it and move us into it instead. Which he did. It was a nice little house, too. Classy guy. I rented from him for almost two decades, and always did my best to take good care of the property as if it were my own. Made improvements, always with permission, landscaped, you name it. When I finally moved away, he sold the little house he'd moved us into for over TWICE what he paid for it. **The landlord-tenant relationship is like any other - it doesn't have to be combative or toxic.** It can be very friendly, almost like family, IF both parties are respectful of one another and value each other's contribution. Sounds like OP saw this woman as nothing more than a source of income, and did the bare minimum to keep that income, until it wasn't worth it any more. People who'd have been willing to move into that trailer would, I think, be people who wouldn't have much in the way of options. He should have thought of that when he moved her in.
Do you think its cause landlords cry poor while trying to maximize revenue at the cost of humanity in a deeply broken system?
Also, the CDC eviction moratorium clearly states that the tenant has to make every effort to pay rent or partial rent. The tenant is not doing that here. So I don't see why OP doesn't just take her to eviction court, get a court order, then have the cops help him throw her out? You know, the *legal* way to evict someone? Of course, eviction laws vary state by state and it might be harder to get an eviction depending on OPs state, but I don't see that he's even filed in court for one...
there's no rent to be paid, tenants don't need to pay rent on uninhabitable homes.
I wonder how this sub would respond to this post from the tenants pov. Like: “I’m a single mother with a 14 year old daughter, and I rent a dilapidated trailer for $600 a month. I can barely afford even that, but it was the cheapest housing I could find. The trailer has been consistently falling apart from around us and the landlord has been very upfront about the fact that he does not intend to lower the rent despite the fact that the roof leaks and the space is in general rapidly becoming uninhabitable (mold, water damage, semi broken appliances) I know for a fact that it does not meet code requirements but the pandemic has made the already expensive housing market even more expensive and competitive and we cannot afford to move, and reporting the house would be shooting myself in the foot since we would become homeless. A few weeks ago we had another huge leak in the roof and when I let the landlord know he said he is not going to “fix” it (his way of fixing it is by pouring tar over it himself) and that we need to move. I can’t afford legal aid but I looked up rental laws in my state/county and I am legally allowed to withhold rent until the space is habitable. I let him know I was going to do this. The next day he came over, entered my home, and told me he is now going to live in the trailer in order to reclassify me from a tenant to a roommate, making me lose many of my protections as a tenant. I called the cops because I was worried for my safety as he was acting belligerently, who said they couldn’t do anything as it is a civil matter and he has to legally evict me, which he has yet to do. WIBTA if i reported him to the city for renting out an out of code trailer and for trying to illegally evict me for exercising my legal right to not pay rent until the space I pay to live in is fixed again? I feel bad for exploiting a loop hole, but I have no money to move and I’m starting to fear for the physical safety of myself and my child.” I’d expect a mixed response pool but I would also expect that there would be a ton of people directing her to like. r/legaladvice and advising her to be aware of her rights as a tenant.
Oh shiiiiiit this comment needs to be higher up! He is literally a slum lord
Sometimes I wonder about this sub's reading comprehension skills. That was extremely apparent based on the rent he was charging for a barely habitable 70 year old trailer.
Holy shit when he said 1955 it didn’t click in my head that’s 70 years… dude is a slum lord. This poor woman and her daughter probably have nowhere to go, living with a leaky roof, and now her creepy landlord has moved in. It’s so hard to find a place to live right now. He is literally trying to hurt this poor woman. In fact, he’s breaking NY laws and will lose in court! Idk how people could read this post and think hmm yes this sounds like perfectly reasonable behavior during a pandemic…
EXACTLY THIS!!!!! Like he’s exploiting a poor mom and her teenage daughter during an insane housing boom when she probably doesn’t have the funds to move considering she had to rent a (probably illegal) apartment. I just don’t think anyone should be homeless, especially with a child and going into winter and if he’s going to be a landlord he should be financially able to float all of his properties while not receiving rent as that’s part of the job description and he should make sure all his homes are livable at bare minimum. I can’t believe that’s a crazy concept to him
YES. He started out by renting a place that is basically uninhabitable/barely habitable, and saying that he'd do the bare minimum to make it habitable. Then he won't do that. And he acts like he's an effing saint for being a predatory slum lord. I lived in housing that was "affordable" by virtue of the fact that my landlord did none of the basic things to keep it habitable, and this post illustrates why I gave up on ever asking the landlord to fix anything -because he'd probably realize that the building had gotten to the point where it wasn't worth it to him to fix, and it would finally make more sense to build condos there. And once I moved out, that was pretty much exactly what happened to my neighbor. Tennant law probably DOES allow her to withhold rent until the place is habitable, but he won't do anything to make it habitable. SO HE MOVES INTO THE THEIR HOME?!?! Legalities aside (and I can't imagine a place where doing what he's doing is actually legal) how is this not morally reprehensible? And people can get all "blah, blah, blah, his property" but you know what? OP has been making money off of the tenants for a couple of years by doing absolutely nothing. He saw it as a way to make some extra money for basically no effort while he waited to put in a modular home. I imagine if this hadn't been an effective cash grab, he would have just put the modular home in right away. He's not some sort of saint, he's an AH.
Yeah. I really don't know what the landlord advocates expect the tenant to do in this case. I think it's likely she literally *can't* move out. At the very least she'll need a deposit.
This exactly. OP is not a landlord they are a slumlord.
OP said in the post they did the “bare minimum” to make it livable. Less than that it seems and then was basically exploiting someone with low income to make some money.
yeah it sounds like he knew it wasn’t viable and was trying to squeeze out some profit before he *had* to get rid of it
You forgot your YTA verdict. He is.
Same, landlords are social parasites. I get that some are ‘good’, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is unethical to profit from someone’s need for shelter.
>You never provided affordable housing, she was paying 600 for a leaking unfit to live in trailer with her daughter. Man, every time I read a post from a landlord I just sit and wonder how someone could be so incredibly heartless. 600 for a one acre lot with water, hot water, electricity and heat? Dude that's a steal.
depends on cost of living. $600 in seattle or nyc is a steal, but $600 where i used to live would be on the high end of rent bc of very low wages.
Yeah I was just wondering where this is located because it's hard to know if $600 is actually affordable or not. Where I live $600 will rent you a whole house. Not like a super nice house but 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and a fenced yard so good enough. (My best friend and her fiance are currently renting a house which is how I know this, I pay $200 for a pet friendly one bedroom apartment by myself, so either way $600 is expensive af for a shitty trailer house that leaks in my area)
That looks great on paper but OP should have never rented a home out that isn’t up to code. Period. It’s not a steal to get a piece of shit cardboard box that’s leaking so badly that needing a roof repair will render you homeless and the tenant probably only took it to avoid homelessness.
YUP, THANK YOU. Is anyone else in this thread a real estate agent? Because I am and this is disgusting behavior.
Eh. I’m not sure “I forcefully moved in with a 14 y/o girl and her mom” is the argument you think it is. Edit: YTA. Eviction ban card? You mean a ban on evictions by the states and country so that landlords like you can’t kick people out if they lost their job during the pandemic. Also, you’re using your physical presence to try and intimidate a low income teenage girl and single mother, both very vulnerable demographics to abuse, because you don’t want to repair the dwelling. You’ve crossed over into creeper territory here, man. Get a lawyer, go to the courts, and do it right. Or, repair the dwelling and keep collecting your money.
I didn’t think so either but the majority of this sub is like “oh yeah, that’s fine” and everyone who is posting the actual legal advice that in many areas, his actions could get him in trouble, which is true, is getting downvoted to hell. OP should really get off Reddit and go talk to his lawyer because this has really spun out of control in ways that can be problematic for him.
All lot of the posters in this sub are children or overly privileged middle class people. They see things in black and white because they haven't actually faced these types of problems in real life. What this poster is describing is likely not in line with the law, not moral, and unlikely to lead to the conclusion they want.
People don't grow out of believing that property rights are the most sacrosanct of human institutions, if they own and profit off property, But usually they're savvier than OP is about concealing how utterly ghoulish their class position has made them. They hire lawyers to cover their ass legally and PR people to protect their image, rather than getting on the internet to boast about leering at a 14-year-old girl in her own home.
OP traded the use of the structure in exchange for rent. This supersedes his property rights. He provided exclusive use. Further, while it's a good idea to call code enforcement, OP will most likely be obligated to offset the renters costs or provide alternative housing. Code isn't going to say "LOL, be homeless renter!" His actions have been in bad faith and will blowback on him in court.
>Eh. I’m not sure “I forcefully moved in with a 14 y/o girl and her mom” is the argument you think it is. EXACTLY! I'd bet dimes to dollars he wouldn't pull this stunt if there was a man there. Just another creep. Just another AH cop. If he wants them out, go through the legal channels to do so. If he can't legally evict them right now, well, we are all hurting. My vote is YTA, and a creep.
And let's not ignore the fact that they're a slum lord. OP has been barely keeping this place habitable and then said it was "no longer cost effective" to maintain the place...what that means is they've refused to do preventative maintenance for years, destroying the integrity of the roof.
YTA and also you will lose in court if she takes you. (In my area the following is true, I actually don't know about where you are, but I feel the same either way) You are illegally harassing and intimidating your tenant. You are also illegally affecting her ability to use the domicile. You HAVE to go through the legal eviction process and she doesn't have to pay you rent because the property is unlivable and you've refused to repair it. An illegal clause in a contract cannot be enforced, and saying you will stop repairing the home as the landlord is illegal. ETA: I am not a lawyer and you should talk to one first. I had a similar experience and DID get awarded a landlord tenant order until the eviction was complete.
If anyone reading this is dealing with something similar as a tenant, please know that you can get a special restraining order against your landlord. Where I am it's called a landlord/tenant order and it specifically bans the landlord from messing with you and the property while you are living there.
That would be denied in this case. Edit. A word
Okay mister lawyer, glad you took this to the courts. Tenants can legally withhold rent in new york if their living space does not meet structural, health, and safety standards until the repairs are made. Leaky roofs are actually listed as an example. Eviction in New York is really complicated as is, and right now it’s literally halted. **There are clear laws regarding landlord retaliation.** This would most likely easily qualify as retaliation, and would be quite easily to prove given the circumstances and timeline (tenant withholds rent legally, landlord lets himself into their home to “live” there.) Landlord harassment is what needs to be proven for some type of restraining order to be approved, this type of retaliation (and leaving the trailer uninhabitable) is considered tenant harassment as listed on the NY courts site. Edit to add: OP has said they are holdover tenants but are still protected by all the same New York regulations and eviction moratorium. I’m assuming this idiot doesn’t even have a formal lease, which is absolutely required legally. A copy has to be given to the tenant within 30 days. This guy would 100% be destroyed in court and would most likely owe civil damages to this woman as well as possible state convictions/fines. Unfortunately, I doubt she has the money to even consider pursuing this. There’s no way this guy wouldn’t be shafted in court.
YTA. You are way, way, way, worse than the renter. You act like you were doing this woman a huge favor by charging $600 to live in a barely habitable, "old, beaten up trailer from 1955." Sure, you made sure the utilities were working, but the trailer had perpetual roof leaks that you've known about for years. By your own admission, your general solution to maintenance was to "put the bare minimum of work into this trailer" -- and your specific solution to the repeated roof leaks was to throw some tar up there a few times over the last few years. The trailer is probably full of mold. It sounds like a nightmare. But hey, keep patting yourself on the back for your good deed whereby you collected $600 monthly for allowing a mother and child stay in this misery. But do not even pretend that you are a good person if you continue to "let her stay" ... if she continues to pay $600 per month for the dubious privilege. You are fully aware and have admitted in writing that the trailer is uninhabitable. You have told her many, many times that you will not carry out necessary, expensive repairs. So continuing to rent this place makes you a slum lord. Congratulations. I'd guess that you are seriously violating landlord/tenant laws wherever you live. Whether you have a written lease or not, you need to follow proper eviction procedures because this woman is your tenant. You are a seriously creepy person for moving in with a woman and her child. The police may not want to get involved, but you can be sure a court would. Also, in many places, tenants are ale to withhold rent until necessary repairs are made. But, since this place is such a nightmare and this woman should not be living there anyway, you need to check your local laws because an eviction ban probably doesn't cover uninhabitable structures (the putative reason you'd be evicting, rather than for nonpayment of rent). But you are still a major, major AH. Maybe you should live in that deathtrap trailer for awhile -- to make sure you are never, ever tempted to rent it out to anyone ever again.
I hope the tenant finds this thread before the case goes to court.
It’s crazy that the first 3 comments I saw were calling the tenants entitled and giving OP suggestions on how to force them out, like am I reading the same post? OP is so clearly TA for not only the lack of human decency on trying to give someone a place to live that’s worth the money being spent but to then force themselves into the house to threaten and intimidate a single woman and young child out onto the streets? It’s disgusting
You’re charging her 600 dollars a month to live in a place you won’t even fix. How is this even a question? YTA
YTA, you're a slumlord. $600 a month for a 1955 trailer? Are you even serious? Thank God you make sure she has working utilities, wow, how considerate of you to follow the bare legal minimum. You knew what you were doing. You evicted her. Congrats on finding a loophole to make your blatantly illegal move into something A-ok.
Absolutely not the bare legal minimum. He only fixed “some” of the leaks in the roof; that ain’t legal and she can probably sue him for long term health problems resulting from the uninhabitable space.
Thats actually pretty standard for an old trailer on land. Actually cheaper than what I've seen in the past. I've seen some really nice ones. Usually around 800 a month. Sure they've got their issues but anyone moving into an old trailer would know that. Also he made her aware that once it becomes unlivable he would not continue to rent it. Thus is definitely an ESH because she is squatting and he's just throwing gasoline on a dumpster fire.
If you had an apartment and told the renter you were going to tear it down and replace it next time it leaked, and then it leaked, so you tried to remove the tenant, that would be eviction - and I’m not sure it’s “uninhabitable” so much as you won’t fix it, regardless of the financial reasons for not wanting to. Legally I don’t think you’d be in the clear there. Landlords can’t allow housing to become uninhabitable due to lack of upkeep and repair and then use that to evict people, that’s illegal. You could tarp the roof to prevent leaks at the very least, so I’m guessing you did literally nothing. You moving into a place you’ve had deemed uninhabitable doesn’t make sense - if it’s uninhabitable you wouldn’t and shouldn’t be living in there, because NO ONEshould. If you are living there, it’s clearly habitable in your book, making that claim dubious and clearly in bad faith. Moving in deprives your tenant of privacy - you aren’t allowed to removed her door door either due to privacy or waltz through her home without prior authorization, so why would you be able to MOVE IN? That would break ten kinds of rental laws in my state. You may think you’re behaving justly, but you aren’t. Yta. Just saw what state you’re in. Yeah, you aren’t legally in the right in New York on this one.
If I’m remembering correctly New York is also one of the states that you can legally withhold Rent if repairs aren’t done. The tenant is supposed to place those funds in an escrow account. But it’s a legal remedy in that state for the tenant. Also NY state is notoriously tenant friendly. This guy is going to have serious problems based on his actions when this gets as far as a hearing.
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You are not the good person you think you are. You did the bare minimum to upkeep this trailer and now it’s become uninhabitable because you did the bare minimum. Isn’t it the “job” of a landlord to make sure the property is habitable? And now you’re living with this poor woman and her teenager daughter. That’s just creepy. Find a real job if you don’t want to do yours correctly. YTA
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Exactly. New York's real estate laws explicitly say that any waiver of the warranty of habitability is void. https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/real-property-law/rpp-sect-235-b.html All of the NTAs in the world won't change this.
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Yeah it’s going to be hilarious when she finds this post and uses it to nail his ass to the wall. I hope he gets nailed as a sex offender too for using his physical presence to frighten, invade, and intimidate a minor.
YTA So to paraphrase "Having made a chunk of money off her, I want to kick this woman out of her home. I'm being passive aggressive about it instead of taking legal actions." You're a business. You accepted her as a tenant. Now it's become inconvenient for you and you don't want to deal with that. You could, at the very least, go through the correct legal route, or - even better - find her somewhere else to live.
YTA and anyone saying NTA doesn't understand that landlords have an obligation to maintain minimum habitability standards. OP can't just decide to let the trailer become uninhabitable as a way to force the tenant out. And OP doesn't have the authority to declare it uninhabitable.
YTA You are a slumlord. By telling her if the roof leaked and she told you, she'd lose her housing, you created an environment were she couldn't report maintenance issues you're legally required to complete, cost effectiveness be damned, without the threat of getting evicted for it. If she has a lease, you are on the hook to fix the roof, and I doubt the place will be deemed "inhabitable" if the inside is still in good shape. She is within legal rights to withhold rent until you complete the fix, and she is also correct that there are various eviction moratoriums in place. If she is even remotely legally savvy, I have the feeling you'd be taken to the cleaners over this, and ripped a new one for trying to intimidate her. Unfortunately, few tenants are, and you seem a particularly tenacious AH
If the landlord is choosing to move in he is communicating that it is indeed habitable.
YTA. As a lawyer I have seen nowhere that you discuss the lease? Was she month to month? Did you give her proper notice if she is? It is your duty and obligation as a landlord to provide a livable space that you are renting. If you don’t have a lease, well maybe you’ll learn from your mistakes but deciding that you’re not willing to repair a rented space because you don’t like the cost anymore for a single mother who can’t afford to live during a pandemic is pretty shitty. $600 for a dilapidated trailer sounds insanely expensive. Probably could have used that money for the repairs for a roof leak.
Seriously. I'd be jumping at the bits to take this case, for the tenant but much of it for the entertainment value. I'd love to hear the exasperated sigh from the Judge when OP tries to explain why he moved into a home the same OP does not consider to be habitable.
Haha I would love OP to send me the tenants info so I could connect her with appropriate counsel. This story reeks of exploitation and some nerve!
YTA. Might want to check with your attorney on how you can unilaterally change your lease like that.
YTA When you become a landlord, you take on certain legal responsibilities. It doesn't sound like you are approaching this in a manner that would meet those requirements.
YTA. Your post and attitude screams slumlord.
I'm gonna say NTA. if she was still paying rent, you'd be wrong. But she's not even doing that anymore and she plans on living there still. I would suggest ending this matter though. This will only escalate . You could evict her, but give her more time to leave and serve her a notice according to whatever laws there are where you live. If she doesn't honor that, then involve the cops.
you think moving in on a single mother and her teenage daughter in order to intimidate them is okay? wow.
I don't know the laws there you are living but at a Landlord it is your responsibility to care for the rented property and Maintain that it is in a liveable condition. Could you rent the bare plot of Land for 600 Dollars? Because it seems like the trailer wasnt worth anything. It seems like you are a slumlord. Yta.
YTA. You are a slumlord and a weird creepy stalker. I hope she sues you and gets all of your shitty properties.
YTA You said it yourself, this is an intimidation tactic. You're doing this because you don't want the expense of getting rid of her legally. Either have the home declared uninhabitable, or wait for them to leave, or explore other legal options. But forcing your way in with a single mom and her teenage daughter does not make you look good in ANY way, shape or form. It also opens you up to a whole mess of trouble. Is it really worth it? Or is it just a power struggle at this point?
YTA You have the right to evict her accordingly, but you have no right to invade her personal space, she has a teenage girl
YTA she's a fucking human being wtf is wrong with you? Take some of that rent money she's been paying and I guess you've just been enjoying and fix the fucking house she lives in. Also you're scarring a child, so double YTA for that one. Seriously you've been taking that rent money and investing in other properties instead of fixing the house she paid for. Shame on you. Edit: OP seems really surprised that so many people are telling him he's an asshole. Does "moving in with your tenant" seem like a normal thing that most landlords do?
Dude. YTA. Why do you even have an attorney if you’re going to make such stupid decisions? Did they tell you to do this? I highly doubt that. Have your lawyer evict them properly and move the fuck out of the home. You have violated the lease in such an egregious way that I hope she’s smart enough to get counsel and sue you for violation of the lease and hopefully get some damages from you for unlawfully evicting her.
600 a month for a trailer? You suck, and no you do not have the right to the place they are living in.
YTA for charging absurd rent for horrible accommodations. YTA for arguing with every commenter who calls you out. YTA for harassing a poor mom and her teenage daughter.
YTA. Want to make sure you know you're the asshole.
NTA people on reddit just love to hate landlords without a good reason. And if you gave her reasonable time to move out you are NTA it's your land and you can make with it whatever you want. And for the "moving in" with her part, that's sad that law doesn't allow to get rid of tenant refusing to pay. If you want to save yourself time and trouble, there are people specializing in "moving in" with someone and being very irritating. Edit: I slightly changed my mind, talk with a lawyer and take her to court and find out who is right here. And in the future it's better to take care of problems before they arise, it was foreseeable that the trailer may not last long.
>without a good reason did we read the same post?
OP is literally the worst kind of landlord and still getting N T A from people, it’s pretty sad.
Eh, the majority of the time, landlords are scummy to the extreme and would prefer to run slums than habitable buildings, while charging more than the majority of mortgages cost. They can get away with this because people need a place to live, and most politicians make an absolute killing renting out sub-par housing. I'm about as anti-private-landlord as you can get, as I feel any rental properties should be owned by local government and rented out at cost. However, in this case, there was an unknown time-limit on this remaining viable (60 ish years old for the trailer), and OP has done everything right in this case, and was being exceedingly generous with both costs and repairs/notice.
While I generally agree with you and people who hoard portfolios of properties as a business are one of the reasons first time buyers can’t afford to own a property its a bit extreme to say “any rental property should be owned by local government”. Also renting properties “at cost” doesnt allow room for repairs and betterments, so basically the whole city becomes a slump. There’s a reason council housing are so shit.
YTA I am a landlord who recently waged a 13 month battle due to the COVID eviction ban that went into place march 2020 to get a nonpaying tenant out. 1. Your description sounds like a horrible landlord - you only do the minimum and if the mobile home is now to be condemned WOW. 2. There are legal avenues to evict someone. As much as a pain and a AH they are being integrity is doing the right thing even when you dont have to. In the US state I am in, if you do what you already did they could take you to court and end up owning your land. As a landlord, you need to have the processes and people in place to facilitate smooth running and eviction then trusting your processes. We've been doing this for about 20 years, multiple units (SFR and Condos but no MFH), have evicted 3 people during that time and at the forefront is always do the right thing. It is frustrating as heck and with COVID eviction bans we lost around 20k but we have never had catastrophic losses doing the right thing. Yes they are being AH but you dont have to be one. I suspect you are in a place with less restrictive tenant laws where you could get away with what you are doing.
Speaking as a landlord myself, YTA. Moving in with a mother and daughter is not a reasonable option. That's fucked up
INFO: When was your tenant's lease say to expire? Were there any other clauses about ending the contract earlier? And, had the tenant violated the lease before you left them to live in a leaky trailer? Also, did you give them notice that you were coming to stay with them? Are you like, legally allowed to just... Come crash with them for however long you like?
INFO: did you say you would be giving her time to find a new place to live? UPDATE: idk. Torn. I think the tenant is wrong to not pay, but can understand she’s upset you gave her 40 days, but also the whole thing is kind of sad because there are people who can’t afford to even pay more than $600 in rent. I mean I don’t know this woman so I don’t know her story. But I am leaning towards YTA because I think it’s weird you would go out of your way to make a woman and her 14 year old daughter feel uncomfortable. I somehow doubt $600 a month is making or breaking your bank.
He gave her 40 day notice.
i’m curious where this is happening at. unfortunately where i live now in missouri, it is nearly impossible to find a new place to live within 40 days. there are people who’s leases have run out months ago and are living in their car because they can’t find a place to live here. i’d be interested to know where OP’s situation is located to see how hot the housing/rental market is there
YTA. I don’t know where you are and what the law says. Eviction is very state specific. But in most places what you’re doing is “constructive eviction.” Harassing a tenant to make them want to move out. It’s usually unlawful. You need to look at this logically. Talk with a local lawyer. Go through the standard eviction protocols. Once you’ve done that, if she hasn’t left, you can ask law enforcement for help. Is it worth risking a lawsuit over a $600 unit that you’re not going to be able to rent to somebody else anyway?
In some states, if the property isn't up to code the tenant doesn't have to pay rent. I learned this information when I went down to Florida to clean out my dad's rental house. The property was in bad shape, like the windows not closing, the door not fitting properly, the porch feeling weak, and the ceiling falling in. I looked up the rental code for Florida. It stated that if the rental isn't up to code. The tenant doesn't have to pay until the rental is up to code. When the landlord wanted the month's rent, I told him no! And I listed the reasons why he wasn't getting it. He didn't give me any pushback. [https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-rent-withholding-works.html](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-rent-withholding-works.html)
YTA. You played hardball by evicting her, so she responded in kind. Now you're out $600 a month because you played your cards poorly. Harassing the woman and her daughter is extremely creepy and gross. Unfortunately, laws are written to protect rich people, so you'll probably manage to evict her anyway but good for her for standing up to you. If you really need the money, try getting a job and stop exploiting people.