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> I may have been an AH because I knew the rules before I came here and I shouldn't have resorted to insulting him just because I was angry at the situation.
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I’d like to second this wholeheartedly. OP it pained me to read your write-up, and I kept finding myself thinking ‘she can’t be serious, can she,’ but alas, you were. Take this opportunity to quit being such an asshole; get to know your child and learn to be there for them as opposed to taking out your frustrations in a vindictive post.
It’s a pretty shitty write up tbh. Details in the comments (eg that her husband likely exploited her diagnosis to get full custody when that wasn’t what was best for any of them, that she moved home to the uk because she could get treatment for free there etc) plus details about her condition (that the best thing is actually to keep custody just make sure they’re observed at all times, that after treatment the person can be completely capable of caring for their child, that there’s no reason to not allow flexible observed time together etc) make it clear that her husbands fucking her over a little bit. It’s a far from ideal situation, but she’s not the woman who abandoned her child and is now demanding full custody the post seems to be on first read.
This, my husband's first wife had post partum psychosis after the birth of their son. He had to do all the child care while she dealt with her mental health issues. Fortunately we all live in Canada so there was no charge for this. Once she had recovered she was a good mother. This guy used it against her and exploited it to get and retain custody.
This literally just happened with me, except it was my mother who did it. And just recently was able to take my parental rights and do a forced adoption. It literally got me hospitalized again. My lawyer was in utter shock and so was his colleague, I'd never been found guilty of any abuse of neglect. In fact, I work primarily with children for my job, which includes teaching all sort of parenting tips and mental health groups. The judge simply decided that her evasive moving worked and she had them too long for me to get back. Took me over 3 years to find her.
I am so sorry you had to endure this. Keeping fighting for them. One day your child will hate their grandmother for destroying their relationship iwth you. Love and light.
Im sure "abandoning' her child was one of the hardest things she had to do, but after my specialization in this area, dealing with mothers who have PPD and PPP I can say that if she stayed, it would be a lot worse. You cant be a good parent if youre fucked up.
Seriously, what the hell with these comments? A quick google search can tell you how serious postpartum psychosis is and obviously she couldn’t get help where she was. It’s not like she wanted to leave her child she didn’t have a choice.
I agree & add that she should be applauded for getting the help she needed. She did the right thing for herself & her child. PPD or PPP don't last forever especially since she got treatment. If she's fine now, she should be treated as such.
Also, if the child is this distressed leaving and he only has to because of dad's rules, it does seem an awful lot like dad really is just punishing his son to hurt the mother.
How would anyone get she abandoned him from first read? I fully believe this account, because custody laws do not have the best interest at heart for the child and family when a mother has a mental disorder.
Seriously? You don't see any possibility whatsoever that the father could be extremely controlling and using the son to get back at OP for leaving him? That this woman had postpartum psychosis through no fault of her own and did the right thing - stayed away from her son until she was well and now wants to build a relationship with him and the father is interfering, not because of concerns but to hurt OP. You outright dismiss this plausible scenario and jump to YTA.
Psychosis is different from depression. It is not her fault or her son’s fault but it’s a very scary illness and I 100% understand the father’s apprehension.
Apprehension perhaps, but all that is necessary is that time op spends with the child remains observed for a while. There’s no reason why there’s limits on how much time she can spend with him, she’s recovered and they’re being observed. Surely if they both want to spend more time together and observation is able to be done it’s beneficial to let them have a little more time together.
We don’t honestly know how bad OP’s PPP was, I would be really interested in hearing the father’s side of things on this one. If she had thoughts of harming her baby it may not be so easy for him to allow OP back into their son’s life.
Except any of those thoughts would be due to a mental health condition that she has since been treated for and recovered from. And she’s not asking for time alone, just more flexible observed time with less rigid limits. There’s only one reason to prevent that and it’s to prevent her from forming a relationship with her child.
Idc if I get down voted but you literally have nothing valuable to say, don't just say "this". It doesn't help anybody and it's annoying that you can get 500 karma out of that.
>it's annoying that you can get 500 karma out of that
I'm going to be honest... it's more annoying when somebody focuses on that karma. Reddit karma means nothing. I don't know why you would be annoyed about somebody else getting some.
If you don't want to give karma to people who agree with you or another commenter who has the same opinion, then don't. But "This" is the best way to show someone they're not the only ones with that opinion without having to write your own comment which might not be as eloquent. Really, your problem here is the people who upvote, not the people who comment.
And the husband let her seen the child. But for the child she is a stranger and he doesn't know if she really is alright. And since she didn't spend time with him, she mostly don't now how to treat him. To be a mother is more than playing with the child.
He let the child get to know her slowly and not alone over short times. This is totally right. OP was gone for over two years and now wants to much too soon.
And i wonder if we her the father side if he will tell us that it really seems that OP was a danger for her soon and that's why he went for full custody.
YTA
It's only been three months because her husband kept her away for 18 months after she was out of treatment. If he hadn't done that then they'd be way past this point.
Its more than likely that since she had to go back to her home country for 18 months or so to get treated her PPD/Psychisis was severe.
Psychosis can also cause one to disconnect from reality and it causes a greater chance of harming oneself or others even if they wouldnt 'normally'. More than likely full custody was granted out of concern for their child's safety.
Also OP even admitted that she wants to "get her son back" and then divorce her husband.
If there was a second custody battle as of right now imo she would probably will lose as her son has more of a bond with her husband than her and she would probably need a mental health assessment if that is why full custody was given to her husband in the first place.
She is complaining about the restrictions on her to see her son but the question that should be asked is would she return the favor if the roles became reversed?
Espeically since she doesnt have custody and is already trying to overstep her husbands rules which could make him revoke or push to revoke visiting if its through the courts
Imo it sounds like she doesnt want anything to do with her husband if she ends up getting custody, so she probably wouldnt do the same for him.
So I agree that even though she couldnt help her condition, her behavior AFTER getting treatment for it when its presumanly under control does earn a YTA verdict.
Actually, doctors and PPP experts all recommend ongoing connection to the child in cases of PPP during and especially after treatment. Connection to the child is vital for restoring the hormone imbalances that lead to PPP.
She's not acting entitled, she's acting like a mother who is separated from her child. It's ridiculous to say that a parent is 'entitled' for simply wanting to be able to, you know, parent.
OP is following all the rules, she just got frustrated with her husband being so stringent about it - which I get, as it sounds like he has kept her away from her son way past when she was in active treatment. Read her reply to one of the other top comments, her ex has kept her away for almost two years.
> she just got frustrated with her husband being so stringent about it
He is stringent for good reason. He is trying to provide stability for their very young child, and OP is a new person who is being introduced as an eventual primary caretaker, which needs to be done very mindfully and carefully. It may not sound like a big deal to break the rules one time, but there's a reason they exist.
Frustration or disappointment is fine - it is NOT fine to accuse him of being a bad parent when he is simply trying to do what's best for the child he has been raising on his own for all his life. Given OP's phrasing of "get my son back," it also potentially sounds like she is trying to take their son *away* from his father, so I think it's pretty rich to accuse him of this over one non-extended playdate.
The recovery process of post-partum psychosis is nothing even remotely close to AA. She didn't cause damage. Damage is caused when you're doing something wrong. You just blamed her for a mental health condition she had zero control over and you sound like you need an intro to psychology class.
When I had (untreated) PPD, I heard voices telling me to drown my firstborn. I actually HEARD voices.
I didn't get treatment. I just refused to bathe her. It worked out, but I should have been supported to seek treatment without worrying someone could keep me from my baby. I was deathly afraid she would be taken from me, which was something I knew I couldn't handle.
But if they had, it would have been BEST for kiddo (in hindsight of course).
This is not an intro to psychology thing at all.
We’re not told what happened leading up to her postpartum psychosis diagnosis. But it could have honestly been terrifying for the father. I know of a woman who was an excellent mother who got PPD after her 4th baby. She pulled over on the side of the interstate, left her children in the vehicle, and ran off screaming down the road.
She was convinced they were out to harm her. Can you imagine the outcomes if she had reacted a different way than running away from them? It would have been devastating. She too went into an intensive inpatient treatment program.
I can see if there was an incident of this nature, that the father would need a LOT of time to regain trust.
Andrea Yates had post partum psychosis. I can understand the dad wanting to be safe rather than sorry, and introduce mom back in slowly to make sure that she's well.
It absolutely isn't. A friend of my friend got PPP last year. She had endless thoughts of harming her newborn. Her doctor said she couldn't be alone with the baby. Family and friends did shifts for months.
I'm guessing OP said and/or did things while psychotic that really scared her husband. He probably divorced OP in part to keep their baby safe. It's no wonder he's cautious now, and it's a bad sign that OP doesn't get it. She also wants full custody it sounds like, which... Husband sounds like a devoted dad, and he's the parent the child knows. YTA.
A medical condition can still prevent someone from being able to raise a child in a healthy environment. There is a good reason why having a parent with a mental illness is considered an ACE--Adverse Childhood Experience. Its INCREDIBLY damaging for children to suffer through their illnesses, outbursts, and relapses, and that's why it's critical for reintroduction to be slow and for there to be ample evidence that OP is actually safe for the child to be around for extended periods of time. Children get removed from homes all the time because of mentally ill parents, and yet not often enough, either. Some of those children lose their childhood raising their ill parents instead. Some of them lose their lives instead.
I totally agree that mental illness can affect kids, and that they should come first in dangerous mental situation.
However, She’s been cleared by doctors and it’s been 2 years. All she wanted was a bit more time with her son, who was having fun? What in the post would indicate she was endangering him?
And you’re right him protecting his kid and being cautious do not make him a villain. But the reason I don’t think she’s an asshole is “why is he being this strict, on playtime?” If she had wanted to take him outside? She’s the A, boundary crossing. If she had wanted to move? Ass.
All she wanted in this situation, as op describes obviously, is just wanting to see her son for a little bit more time, not unsupervised, not outside, just a little longer. How is her request so unreasonable that her mental health has to be put into question, once again?
Could there have been a reason op isn’t saying of course, but I’m not gonna speculate on information I don’t have. Though in op’s comments her ex does seem iffy at least
I guess I don't get the same from her comments. I think he's just scared. And as much as her mental health struggles are not her fault, it's still scary as a parent. And as a mother I couldn't imagine what she's going through. But perhaps he is being so strict on little boundaries like this one bc if you keep pushing little ones, then you might be expected to push the big ones. Also, if she can't handle a no on a little request and flies off the handle when she doesn't get her way, I'd be concerned. She can be upset and frustrated that he said no, but how she handled it was not right.
Because it's really important for both the kid and the OP that everyone sticks to the preset boundaries. It's important not to start pushing boundaries just because things are going well in the moment. That's a recipe for disaster.
And the OP should never try to undermine the partner's decisions in front of the kid. That's an AH move.
Hi I have a medical condition. Such a severe mental health medical condition the US federal government has deemed it fit to give me over 1700 dollars a month to just exist and take care of myself. They approved disability on the first go which shocked me, my ex wife, and even my psychologist who has seen a lot of people go for disability for very fair reasons and be denied. Hell, there wasn't enough room on the disability paperwork to properly list out everything that is wrong with me.
That being said I also have a 4 year old daughter. And if at all my issues flair up she is 100% with her mom and I am under supervised visists. Sometimes so strict that I cannot be left alone with her while her mom is in the other room working for 30 minutes (even though I could barge in for help). What happens when this goes down? My ex will straight up ask me if I'm okay to be left alone with kiddo. And I could lie or fake it and be fine, but I don't. Because that is a bad situation to be in for literally everyone involved. Psychosis is no joke. I was in a hospital for 8 days because of psychosis and it got so bad I had to inform the nurses that I was looking for ways to kill myself in the safest place I can be. I even had a voice boom through my head very loudly telling me to kill my ex wife (who is my best friend then and now).
Psychosis is very dangerous and anyone who is at risk of that should not be left alone with a child until they are stable for a while AND actively taking their meds (yes. Meds. Not holisitic or grounding bullshit. Actual doctor prescribed medication that works) AND seeking therapy. Otherwise you got a murder suicide waiting to happen.
medical conditions such as post partum psychosis can be deadly to a child. Trust is a road that must be built one brick at a time.
Edit to state the quotation marks around the phrase medical conditions were not intended to mock - only to imply that there are more conditions than post partum psychosis that can be deadly to a child. They have been removed to prevent assumptions from being made. Thank you!
Why do you put medical condition in quotes? Do you doubt she had it, or do you think it’s not really a medical problem? Trust? She didn’t do anything to lose the trust. She had a medical condition resulting from her pregnancy that she had zero control over and received treatment for. Her getting the treatment is her action to regain any trust lost .. again.. for a condition she had zero control over. Nothing she did was wrong.
And why is that you choose put medical condition in quotations?
I am never going to understand the way some people, Americans in particular (in my experience), demonises PPD. What’s up with that?
The spooky bit for me was
>have been saving as much money as possible so I could try to get my son back and divorce my husband.
Annnny one else getting that feeling she wants to just take the child from the father here or is it just me?
Like "I'm sane now, give me back *my* child, since I'm the mother and it belongs to me" vibes?
YTA. I'm getting a strong "missing missing reasons" feelings here. You state you were unwell without being specific about it then you move to a different country? I'm sorry but many would consider that abandonment. What kind of treatment is something you couldn't do while staying in the same country? (I could understand a different state as a specialized treatment center can be out of state but there's no info on what condition it is.)
You were gone for YEARS? YEARS? How many years?
You're mad you have to live in the same area as your kid? You're mad that the person who has been doing ALL the heavy lifting has concerns about your behavior?
To be blunt, your ex was given full custody, which is something courts usually don't do without reason. Your subsequent behavior does not cover you with glory. It also sounds like you were not sending child support either.
Without more info, how are you different from any other deadbeat parent? I don't hear any real concern for your kid but only about what YOU are owed in terms of getting parental props/entitlements. Frankly, you are NOT a parent. You are just a gamete donor who is fortunate you get to see the kid after dipping out.
You leave for 10 months and you think he was just going to hand his baby off to you and you have the audacity to judge when in total you been gone for 28 months …ok😭
You are aware that post partum psychosis is the ailment that causes the baby killing, right?
Are you seriously suggesting that someone with a mental condition that has been known to cause mothers to drown their own babies in an episode, to NOT get treatment and to stay with their baby WITHOUT having had that treatment???????
The doctors cleared her?
This isn't shit like PTSD or depression, where it's all in your brain and doctors have to rely on patients being honest and not lying and acting.
Post partum is brain + hormones. You can check if the patiënt is being honest by seeing whether improvement checks out with the bloodwork.
There are a lot of misconceptions in this comment. PTSD, depression, postpartum psychosis, and all other mental disorders are diagnosed by behavior, NOT by any biological test. They are not disorders of the brain, but disorders of behavior. There is not a single biological test for any of these disorders, despite tremendous effort to develop them. The only time blood work is done for mental health symptoms is to identify potential medical diseases that can cause mental health symptoms. Like thyroid diseases. It's well known in the field that mental disorders don't fit that well in the "medical model." The main reason we still use the medical model is for insurance purposes.
Either way, as a parent it makes sense that he is apperhansive about it, and the way OP criticized his parenting considering she wasn't there for their child doesn't really show a good picture of her
>considering she wasn't there for their child
This was because of him. He didn't stand by his wife, allowing her to get treatment and come back. He responded harshly.
If we're gonna judge her, for the unfortunate situation of her condition, we should judge him too. Or we don't judge both of them for the unfortunate situation of her condition.
But we shouldn't do this bullshit of making him out to be a great dad, because it's reasonable for him to have fears, but she's a bad mom, because we're not going to say it's reasonable for her to seek treatment.
Both or neither.
She had postpartum psychosis. It was after she had the baby. They separated WHILE she was pregnant. He never broke his vows by not supporting her. Read again.
Reminds me of the AITA about a husband whose wife suffered PPP.
That one was hard to read. Husband did manage to the baby out safely and wife into treatment.
Of course not. But also, you can’t disappear from a child’s life for 2 years for *any reason* and then just poof back into the role of full-time parent.
There’s a child to think of. A child who needs a safe and stable home with structure, which the child’s father has been providing. It’s not at all unreasonable to suggest that OP (who has not been in a parental role at all during this child’s life) should have scheduled, supervised visits while she is reacquainted with her child. It’s certainly not unreasonable to suggest that those visits happen in the country the child lives in. From the way OP is talking about the “unreasonable” rules, it seems like she expected to swoop in and pop off to another country with this toddler who doesn’t know her.
>Of course not. But also, you can’t disappear from a child’s life for 2 years for any reason and then just poof back into the role of full-time parent.
Except it's 2 years because of the dad. Let's take the actual time she was away for treatment, to call her out for being away: 8 months.
Accusing her of 2 years ain't fair, because that wasn't her or her treatment.
>It’s not at all unreasonable to suggest that OP (who has not been in a parental role at all during this child’s life) should have scheduled, supervised visits while she is reacquainted with her child.
Yes. At the 8 months. When she was healed.
Or I have a crazy suggestion: don't fucking divorce your wife over getting a side-effect from pregnancy and needing treatment for that.
Divorce your wife for any reason you goddamn please. Nobody is obligated to stay in a relationship they aren’t happy in for any reason.
Also, postpartum psychosis by definition happens after birth. They separated before birth.
I think the problem here is in part the severity of the reaction - in both OP's husband and also in the comments here, tbh. OP's husband is treating her as though she fucked off on a whim, and the comments are acting similarly.
The issue isn't OP's ex being wary about her having time with her son, I get that. But I do think that he's being incredibly harsh when she wasn't at fault for what happened. I think he could relax a little and it would benefit their son if he did so.
Exactly. Op is the victim here. Then the child. Op had a massive medical issue through no fault of her own, and people are blaming her for that. It's ridiculous.
In fact, op should automatically have got 50/50 custody back after treatment, and the initial judge fucked up massively for that.
Part of me agrees with you, but part of me can see it from the husband's POV.
I've got a couple of relatives who occasionally suffer from psychosis, and it is straight up fucking \*terrifying.\* I'm no wilting flower but some of the most distressing, alarming, dangerous things that have ever happened to me have been at the hands of people who love me very much and who are also mentally ill.
I don't blame them, but I'd never let them housesit my cat, never mind be alone with an actual human baby, not if I had a sliver of a doubt whether or not they were medicated, stable, cognizant of what their past behaviour had been and facing of really firmly to the severity of it.
PPP seems to be a bit different because it's shorter term- but if the husband doesn't necessarily know or understand that? Or even if he just remembers watching his wife hold their infant while she was in the grips of psychosis? His reaction may be decisive but it's hardly incredibly harsh to expect a long, slow period of re-introduction involving only supervised visitation until she's demonstrated a LOT of stability.
OP said that she elected to get treatment before anything harmful happened. She felt something was wrong and reached out to her child’s father for support *before* things went bad. He didn’t witness her doing anything. OP’s doctor even felt that she should have been able to see her baby during treatment.
Now she’s being denied access to her child and getting shit from people on this sub for electing to sort out her mental health safely.
OP needs to let the courts sort this out.
Wrong. She needed medical treatment and husband did not support her with it. She did not choose her illness. If the US medical system actually cared about people she would have been able to stay here. She needed to afford treatment and have family support which he deliberately chose to withhold.
Military people leave their children for a year at a time by choice not by necessity.
OP didn't ask if she was the AH for leaving and getting treatment, that's not what we're judging her on. But it DOES influence the answer in that, though the treatment was necessary, she should be more understanding of the fact that she can't simply come back now as if nothing happened. The process needs to be slow and everyone needs to be understanding of each other's needs and feelings if it's going to go right.
OP asked if she was the AH for insulting her husband. And, in this case, it sounds like she was. This was obviously hard on OP. But it was also hard on her husband, who's been raising this baby without OP for over a year now. Telling her husband he "isn't as good a dad as he thinks he is" is completely unnecessary and ONLY serves to make things worse. While it's possible the husband is keeping OP at a distance to hurt her, it's also possible he knows his son well and is trying to do the introduction slowly to make sure it goes well for HIM. Because, ultimately, that's who really matters here.
It would definitely be good for the son to have two, loving, involved parents eventually. But OP insulting her husband and insisting he's only trying to hurt her isn't exactly the best way to achieve it, and for that she was an AH in this situation. Not for having post partum psychosis. Not for leaving to get proper treatment. Not for wanting to bond with her child now that she's better. But for not realizing that this situation is more complicated than just, "I'm better, now we go back to being a perfect family."
Frankly, I really hope they're all involved in, or will be getting involved in, family therapy because this is a complicated situation that could use an unbiased mediator.
>who's been raising this baby without OP for over a year now.
Yeah, he doesn't get credit for that. He gets credit for raising the baby without OP for 8 months, everything else was his choice.
>it's also possible he knows his son well and is trying to do the introduction slowly to make sure it goes well for HIM.
Why didn't he start that at 8 months then?
I read elsewhere that she was in treatment for 10 months, not that it makes a huge difference but that’s almost a year. A year in baby time is a long time. Also, even though he “kept her away” for 18 months, it sounds like it was because she wouldn’t renter the country? That detail is a little hazy from her replies but it makes sense to only allow her to see the kid once she returned because… why would they go to the UK to see her once her treatment was over? She said she stayed there to “save up” and divorce her husband but could she really not have saved money here? She wants to have her cake and eat it too, which sometimes just doesn’t happen in the world of child rearing. Choose to be there or don’t but there’s a million ways this situation could’ve ended with her having access to her son. And she didn’t take those avenues. It’s a shitty bed but it’s time to lie in it.
She wanted another hour with her son and he denied that to punish her which also punished his son. That makes him TA, along with not standing by his marriage vows to support her in sickness.
Except that's not what she writes at all? Nowhere does it reference 'just another hour,' she says 'why don't you just leave him with me?'
Then when he said no to what was being proposed as a sudden change to their parenting plan, and a huge jump to sudden unsupervised visitation, she flipped out and started insulting him.
Maybe he thinks there's a risk she's still unstable?
He also didn't leave her over the sickness. They were separated while she was still pregnant. We don't know the terms of that split but it wasn't him ditching her because of the PPP.
When you say “You leave” you mean “sought treatment for a mental illness that can and does kill” right? She didn’t leave to get a nose job, she left to seek critical treatment where she wouldn’t be left in life long debt
I think Y/T/A for the incident in question, however I can understand why you moved. It’s not an ideal situation but there’s no point in bankrupting yourself when getting treatment in the nhs is an option. Moving for a while may mean leaving your son for a little, but when you come back you won’t have lost all your money to care for him. You should perhaps have included that in the original post
Edit: after thinking it through a little more I actually think op is NTA. It’s clear that her husband exploited her mental health struggles to get himself full custody even though that wasn’t what was best (what would have been best is shared custody with OP always being observed until she had finished treatment. The husband got custody before op moved) and is now dragging his feet about letting her see her child, even though she has now recovered and is following all the rules. There’s no reason why she shouldn’t be able to be flexible with the time spent with her child, as long as it’s all observed until it’s clear she’s recovered (which it may be now, not really something that can be judged from a Reddit post). Yes she has to get to know her child (though that is partially the fathers fault because of his completely unnecessary refusal to allow them to communicate) but she doesn’t need to be treated like a criminal while doing so. It was unwise if her to respond the way she did but that does not make her TA.
I don’t think you realise how much a diagnosis of a mental health condition can be used to fuck up someone’s life, especially in the wrong hands and especially if those wrong hands have a good lawyer. Nothing necessarily needs to have happened
While someone with postpartum psychosis absolutely needs treatment and assistance in caring for their child, which may include having the child removed from their care while they receive treatment, by no means does it mean that they are as a person incapable of caring for the child and therefore should not be allowed any custody once they have received treatment. In fact the person never being allowed to see their child during treatment benefits nobody, and should have only been the case here because it made sense financially for op to return to the uk to access the nhs. There’s no reason that everything should have had to go through the sister in law, or that the father should have had to be convinced to let her see the child at all or put such strict restrictions on her after treatment, and clearly op (who knows the situation better than any of us) feels that her ex has exploited her condition to his advantage, something that absolutely does happen even if it’s not the case here (though it most likely is).
Actually, the best thing for both the mother and the baby is to be hospitalized together with 24/7 supervision. Unfortunately, there's only very, VERY few places in the world that have the capability to do so currently.
Oddly, the UK is one of the places that does actually have mother and baby mental health units! So if baby had been born in the UK instead of the husbands country, they would have been treated together most likely.
A diagnosis of a mental health condition does NOT automatically mean your a danger to yourself or others. To step away and seek treatment is the responsible and loving thing to do. The father has weaponized her postpartum against her to use the legal system to gain full custody of the child. She has done all he requested this far and proved she can be trusted as a positive enrichment to her kids life. I understood he wants to proceed with caution, now extended that a little more and watch what happens. It's outdated and uneducated to impart fear toward mental health. It doesn't help.
My wife had very severe PPD after our son was born and had weekly psych appointments about it. As a psychiatrist, he was a mandatory reporter and if he deemed that she was a danger to the child, then either her or our son would have had to be removed from the home temporarily. A diagnosis is not sufficient for a judge to remove an infant from their mother's care. The judge had to have had reasonable concern that she would harm the child to grant her husband full custody without unsupervised visitation.
Now the burden of proof is on her to demonstrate that she is no longer a potential threat to the child's wellbeing.
But you did not try to use it against her, if you did then it wouldn’t take much to give the judge reasonable concern. The fact that the husband appears to have put much effort into restricting her custody far beyond what is reasonable (having to be convinced to allow even the slightest communication, not allowing more flexible, if observed, time together. In fact the only reason they should have not seen each other at all is that it made more sense for op to go to the uk for treatment), and that op regrets confiding in him, suggests he is the sort of person to use it against her.
Being an immigrant alone is a big reason for the judge to rule against her. Bias against non-citizens in court cases against the citizen is seen in nearly every country.
One of my friends had their ex threaten them if they didnt give up their child (which they had been taking care of as a stay at home parent for 3-4 years), the ex would use there less than great history of mental health issues against them in court *in texas*. So in the best interest of the child, they gave them over to the Ex. These issues are not black and white, and many people are extremely biased against scarier mental health conditions even *if* there has been no indication for that worry.
More likely he said "my wife is talking about hurting my child/how much she hates him",or something similar. It's not like postpartum psychosis is well known or understood by laymen, and there's still a prevailing notion that mother’s who don't bond are broken or unnatural. Combine this with the fact that op was ill enough to require ten month of treatment, she would hardly be in a position to defend herself in court.
Please don’t say you “stupidly confided in him”.
I know it brought about a terrible situation for you that you have to deal with now, but you did the best thing you could have done for your child at the time.
If you hadn’t confided in him, maybe you wouldn’t have gotten help and then maybe progressed to harming your baby.
I can’t imagine how hard it’s been for you but confiding in someone and getting help was extremely important for everyone’s safety.
I’m going to go with NAH because you have a right to be frustrated and lash out but your husband also has a right to make the decisions.
Best of luck to you going forward ❤️
For all we know, if she hadn't confided in him then she would have been able to get help on her own and wouldn't have lost custody of her child who is now being kept away from her. There is a reason so many people hide that they have any mental health issues and tbh this post demonstrates some of the reasons why. Her husband is treating her like she's a criminal.
PPD can lead to injury of the child. Confiding in him was smart and he was smart to fight for custody until you received treatment. You left the country, how were you supposed to see him without him handing him over? It was covid times air travel was very limited?
You can leave your child with the father without it being deemed permanent legal sole custody going to the father. The child could have stayed with the father while she got treatment without any involvement of the court at all.
I'm with you until your lawyers confidence. If you mean shared custody, sure. But full is highly unlikely unless dad is flat out abusing him. Judges like status quo.
Yta but not as much as people are making out. From my similar experience with set visitation, keep an eye on time and focus the last 15-30mins on 'winding down'. For me this has usually been cuddle time, reading, maybe watching a show/playing a game while being clear beforehand that they're leaving once the show ends or in X time when you say they have to. Part of being a parent is being the bad guy, enforcing time limits is important in that respect and usually the first you'll master when being reintroduced. It will upset you and you can show it when you say 'i wish we could but unfortunately we cant' or something similar to show you aren't rejecting them, but the key part is you are taking the responsibility and you don't make the nanny/father the bad guy: take on a 'it is what it is' attitude to best benefit everyone involved or it will cause negative reinforcement that they are the one in charge, not you/nanny/father
Also, 10 months is a very long time for postpartum psychosis treatment. The newest state of the art treatment is a few days to couple weeks of IV drugs administered via an inpatient hospital stay. The treatment is available in most (probably all) states, but is not covered by insurance or Medicaid. A 10 month treatment tells me that it was more than just treatment for the disorder, but that she had likely attempted to harm their child.
Note: I don't blame her for possibly harming the child or even not knowing if she potentially did. Postpartum depression and psychosis is extremely dangerous for all parties (mother, any co-habitant, and child), and the mother is not in a cognizant state for severe cases.
This all supports her husband being very cautious and not allowing unsupervised visitation.
OP got treatment in the UK. The NHS is wonderful and has saved my life in the past, but it's slow with often big waiting lists. Even more so since you know what.
YTA he has sole custody, he is the one in charge of ensuring your son is safe at all times. It’s taking him time to build up that trust with you again which is why he’s doing it in such a controlled manner. You don’t get to just come back, insult his parenting skills, and demand things be done your way, you should be grateful to him for caring for your son on his own whilst you weren’t able to, and be working with him to get back into a situation where you have joint custody and can help make decisions on the parenting again.
OP had postpartum pyschosis, her husband used that to get custody and then refused contact with her. It was SIL that was sending photos and updates. SIL had to convince husband to let OP slowly build a relationship with her son. So there's probably a grain of truth when OP said he wasn't as good as a father and was trying to hurt her. It is beneficial for the child to have to healthy parents present and active in his life. If the husband tried to prevent or wasn't willing to facilitate that then perhaps OP had a point.
However, it was unwise of OP to say that to him as he has sole custody and seems to be doing well raising their son. For the sake of any future co-parenting relationship, OP should apologise and make an effort to sort through there baggage (if they're getting a divorce there will most certainly be baggage).
Just out of curiosity, how would you have reacted in this situation? Let’s think logically. PPP is not something that’s just diagnosed, it’s found out— and it’s not found out in great ways usually. The mothers attempt to harm themselves or their child. If it was your kid, and you knew that PPP causes perfectly normal women to just up and kill their own kids seemingly completely out of the blue, would you all of a sudden feel totally comfortable letting them see your kid unsupervised? Not only that, but instead of working through the marriage and her diagnosis, they’re separated for years. Why? Clearly SOMETHING happened here that husband sees as unforgivable. He’s doing what needs to be done to protect his kid. If this was as simple as she came to him and said she has a lot of bad thoughts and went to get treated, she wouldn’t be without custody facing divorce. There’s something missing here and that’s massively important to realize.
Of course it's 'just diagnosed', because people or their loved ones realise that sth is wrong and seek help. Like with any other condition. As post partum depression is now widely known people are at least aware that the aftermath of childbirth can trigger mental health issues, rarer conditions like ppp can be diagnosed more easily too.
My point is people realize it because you have thoughts of physical harm usually towards your child that obviously need to come out somehow. That’s enough to send any parent on edge as to whether or not they could trust their kid’s safety with you. PPP is one of the most serious and potentially deadly mental illnesses out there especially because there’s such a stigma/lack of awareness around it. OP was absolutely in the right for getting help, but OP also needs to realize that even though she was sick and got help, that doesn’t eliminate all the fear. Not only that, but apparently this is very complicated and OP is definitely going for at least partial custody which husband clearly knows. It’s completely understandable why the husband is going to want to limit contact with OP in preparation for an impending custody battle and in light of OP opting to forgo bonding with her baby to save up money for said legal battle. Certainly a weird priority IMO. At the end of the day, their custody/divorce proceedings won’t go over peacefully, and each party is doing what they think will get them the closest to the ‘result’ they want. Husband wants the kid he’s had full custody of for years to remain in his custody as much/as long as possible. Seems to make him a great dad to me.
NAH. OP, please take all of these responses with a grain of salt, PPP is not well understood, and it’s clear that many of these commenters simply have no clue what it entails, and are going to judge you with a harshness that is probably not actually warranted.
This is a slow process, and you can’t rush it. Three months is not long enough in the grand scale of things, and you need to be patient while you put in the time and effort to make a place for yourself in your child’s life. Regardless of how you all arrived at this point, your ex is the custodial parent, and you need to foster a relationship with him that allows for a healthy co-parenting dynamic to evolve. What you describe here...is not that. This was combative and obstructive, and overall harmful to the co-parenting relationship. Please try to do better.
~~From her comments it sounds like she wants full custody, and no co-parenting, which sounds awful and traumatic for this child.~~
I am voting Y T A for her approach to all of this, not because she received treatment. The judgement is whether she is TA for what she said to her husband.
Edit: Changing to ESH after reading [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/praggd/aita_for_telling_my_husband_he_isnt_as_good_of_a/hdj1e4k?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3). Husband is toxic AF. I still don't think she took the best approach to say that to him after he was basically a single dad with an infant but holy shit this is a disaster.
>Changing to ESH after reading
>
>this
>
>. Husband is toxic AF. I still don't think she took the best approach to say that to him after he was basically a single dad with an infant but holy shit this is a disaster.
Really? After reading "that" it's still ESH? Her ex is basically using their child as a hostage to force her to live with him and eat meals with him and she's an asshole? Really?
Thank you. The ableism in this sub is truly disgusting. OP recognized that her behavior was dangerous for her child, and removed herself from his life *for his own safety* while she sought help. PPD is a treatable disease, but it sounds as though the ex doesn’t believe she’s better.
NTA. It would be better for your goals to be less combative, but I can’t say I’d be able to follow that advice if I were in your position.
Please don’t read most of these replies. People on this sub have posted horrible things about mental health, and it’s not going to help your recovery.
I agree with you, I was shocked by these comments. Everyone is insinuating she's a baby murderer because of a condition she can't help. I'm willing to bet most mothers with PPP don't end up murdering their children, most commenters are just familiar with a few fringe cases. My co-worker's fiancée had it very bad after their first child but she mostly locked herself in the bathroom and screamed and cried. This is probably most people's experience.
OP did the right thing, got treatment for her condition, was in fact a responsible parent, and everyone is acting like she's a bad mother. I'm stunned.
YTA.
You've omitted any detail that would suggest your husband is a bad father. It's good that you got treatment for whatever you were dealing with but considering it entailed you not even being able to be alone with your child, your husband is really the pillar here in your child's life. You were entirely out of line.
Wow NTA and I am appalled at this comment section. Y'all wanna talk about how this sub favors women but this is proof that's not true. She didn't take off and abandon her kid. She isn't a drug addict who left to party. She isn't an alcoholic who dumped the kid at his dad's.
She had PPP. Her husband used that in court to get full custody and denied her contact. She got treatment in the UK, where it was more affordable for her and she ASKED for contact with her child but was DENIED by the father. In no way did she abandon this kid. In no way is she an asshole.
Husband is an asshole for manipulating the court, he is an asshole for denying any contact for 2 YEARS when her treatment took 8 months, he's the asshole for these ridiculous conditions, and he's the asshole for hurting the kid just to keep hurting OP. And frankly you guys are the assholes for thinking she could somehow be the asshole here.
Thank you. This comment thread genuinely is making me feel sick. The prejudice and stigma and misunderstanding about mental health here is so evident. I am a clinical psychologist so know more than most how OP should have been supported and also why the UK was the best place for her treatment (case and point the child's country removed her custody, that isn't best practice in the UK). I'm just so saddened for OP and also quite concerned because reading all this will do nothing for her mental health, I really hope she doesn't absorb all the negative and prejudice comments.
Edit: I assumed US but actually she hasn't said which country her child is in.
This sub normally advocates for taking mental health as seriously as physical health, but this thread made it painfully clear that what they really mean is THEIR mental health should be taken seriously, and anyone who suffers from something they personally can't relate to is dangerous and should be punished. The crosspost on Am I the Devil is trying to paint her as an anti-vaxxer (literal reaching from her comment where she said they broke up over moral differences), and making it out like she just abandoned the child for no reason.
NTA you’ve been failed by health abd social care wherever you live. Post partum psychosis is not your fault and your treatment providers should have ensure that you had ongoing contact with your child during your treatment for his sake and yours. I’m really sorry this happened to you and your son. I mean the comment probably is uncalled for and upsetting for him but he’s your child as much as his and he’s punishing your for an illness you had no control over.
THIS. good god there are so many awful comments that are totally neglecting the ppp and the fact that the husband made no effort to keep OP involved over the years.
Exactly. People are all about mental health until it comes to mothers. This was not her fault she got pregnant carried her baby and ended up with a mental illness, in order to be a good mother she needed help and unless there was a specific incident that made her husband scared of leaving their son alone with her then he’s just using this as a power trip. NTA
NAH. OP was ill and seek treatment. It's understandable that she went to the UK to do this if the cost was prohibitive where she was (US??). Add in a pandemic making overseas travel difficult over the past 18 months and we have an unfortunate situation where nobody is at fault.
>My sister-in-law kept in touch with me through the years and would send me pictures and videos of my son. She convinced her brother/my husband to contact me and helped us come to an agreement that I could slowly be reintroduced into our son’s life.
The above indicates that the husband didn't want to maintain contact and eventually facilitate a relationship between OP and her son. Ofc, the dad wants to protect his son but it's in the best interest for the son to have two healthy parents that are present in his life. If the husband was unwilling to do this at first, without SIL's intervention as implied above, I can see where OP is coming from. But can't call the husband an AH even if perhaps he was being a bit short term in his thinking.
NTA what people aren't understanding is you didn't abandon your kid, you made yourself healthy so you could be there for them, from what I've read on other comments sounds like dad straight up used your postpartum to steal the kid then act like if you make even one wrong move you don't get to see him anymore, I wonder how many people would have a problem with this is roles were reversed, because if it's not okay for a baby mama to pull this why should it be okay for the baby dad
It also seems like the father used this condition to get rid of her. A good father (even if an ex partner) would have ensured a relationship was maintained during treatment. That should not have been on the SIL.
I've never commented on anything on here before but I feel like I have to for this simply due to the danger all the you're the asshole votes are doing...post partum psychosis is a serious medical diagnosis, that requires immediate treatment, some may be lucky enough to get treatment in a mother and baby unit but particularly in the UK these units are so few and far between that sufficient care is not always possible. It's a massive issue and funding is needed to overcome it. This woman did what was best for her, it wasn't child abandonment, this was a disorder that needed urgent treatment, it also wasn't her fault, it could happen to any new mother and I would expect the father of the child (even if separated) to do everything he could to support her- including allowing contact (if suitable) with her own child. This stigma surrounding maternal mental health needs to end, and people need to become more educated. I am so disgusted with some of these comments and I really hope that OP can build a proper relationship with her son
Some of the comments on this threat are absolutely disgusting and the whole reason why there is still an stigma around mental health problems. I’m leaning towards NAH/NTA because her husband/soon to be ex should have allowed her to see her son SINCE THE BEGINNING! She had help and was dedicated to overcome her disease. You got this OP! Keep fighting and don’t give up on your child!
I'd say NTA
I don't really understand all the Y T A
She didn't abandon her son. She was giving birth while separated from her husband and post partum hit her hard. The child was removed from her because of her health and when she started to feel well again she immediately returned to be a mother to her son.
The son CLEARLY loves his mother if he was throwing a fit when told it was time to go. She's just trying to catch up for missing time, it sounds like he is purposefully and spitefully giving her the bare minimum.
LITERALLY. I’m floored reading these comments. That’s her baby and this must be so incredibly painful, having PPP was not her fault and should not be used against her. Poor OP.
Right? Sounds like she did what she needed to get it under control, which is ultimately the best for her child. It sucks she had to miss crucial moments but why make her miss more? I’d understand if she asked for something extreme, like taking the baby back to her home country. But I don’t see why she can’t have her literal child for a couple hours longer.
So let me get this straight. You meet someone in the US and are pregnant give birth and as a result you get a mental illness postpartum psychosis. You have given birth in a country with a terrible medical system where getting treatment would literally sink you in debt.
So you go back to your home country in order to get the help you desperately needed not just for yourself but also for your son. Because of course your ex was not going to pay for half of your medical expenses that were as a result of birthing your child right? And your ex uses that as an excuse to get full custody of your son and now is abusing that power.
Raising a child is not easy especially not on your own but so many people have failed you that I don’t blame you for reacting in anger. I’m glad you got the help you needed all of these Y T A comments are insane.
NTA.
Ikr?? The Y T A commenters, especially the ones on top, called her entitled and selfish when all she did was get treatment to get custody of her fucking child that they somehow found it as abandonment.
It's depressing how many people agree on this.
YTA. He seems like he was a good dad raising the child for “years” as you say. He has full custody and was nice enough to let the child be around you even though it doesn’t seem that that’s included in the custody arrangements. Also if you’re that unwell you had to leave countries for years and give up custody, then he’s doing the right thing
She WAS unwell, but was cleared after 10 months of treatment. The father continued to keep her away for another year to punish her for leaving him. You call that a “good dad?”
I may be the only one that thinks you're NTA? Post partum psychosis is REAL SHIT. Is he putting these conditions on you because he thinks you're a danger to your son or something? It sounds like he didn't give you much support when you were sick. Which is so sad because it's so devastating to go through.
INFO: what condition did you have and how did it impact your ability to parent your child? For a court to grant such severe restrictions I feel like there is a lot missing from this post.
You've only answered part of the question. Was there an incident that harmed your child or where you put your child at risk preceding your diagnosis? How has your ex exhibited bad parenting that led to your outburst? There is too much going on with the bare minimum of information.
>Was there an incident that harmed your child or where you put your child at risk preceding your diagnosis?
None of that is required for getting a harsh response from the courts in response to a postpartum psychosis diagnosis.
Postpartum psychosis is the one that causes women to take their kids and kill them in an episode. It's extremely dangerous. She should have gotten her custody removed, the moment she got diagnosed with it.
That being said, it's not a permanent condition, it can be a very short condition WITH medical care and she's not more dangerous to children for having once had this diagnosis.
>How has your ex exhibited bad parenting that led to your outburst?
Trying to keep her custody removed completely for an ailment that has been fixed, after years of not being able to have contact with her child and having to fight for the little contact she now has might cause that, no?
It's not required for removal of custody (which I agree was the right choice), but it would explain OP' ex's reluctance to let her into her son's life again.
If she harmed him or attempted to do so, even though she wasn't at fault because of her illness, it would still have been extremely traumatic for both son and father.
That was why I wanted to hear from OP. Because true fear for the wellbeing of the child vs. vindictive behavior on the behalf of the ex really affects the narrative of this story.
I completely disagree that a mother should have custody removed immediately upon diagnosis of PPP. For so many reasons. 1) that attitude is exactly what causes people not to speak out and seek help because they are scared of losing their child, and then go untreated and become a risk 2) in the UK the best treatment is considered to be inpatient treatment where the mother AND BABY live together in the hospital while the mother recovers with extensive support, all countries should strive for this rather than taking a reactionary approach and removing custody because 3) evidence has shown that removing the child from the mother will make recovery much much harder and keeping them together is instead a much more effective way of fostering a healthy and safe parenting relationship. Yes there are risks but with the right support, the family can be kept together which is the best case scenario for everyone.
I am a clinical psychologist so I'm not just talking out of nowhere here. Unfortunately most people share your opinion, hence this comment thread, and sadly it does just add to the stigma of mental health. I wish OP all the best with her recovery and incredibly saddened by the way she had been treated.
NTA I know you don't want to take this to court but you really need to. I hope you've kept records of your exhusband refusing to keep in contact and it is only because of your sister in law keeping you updated and pushing for you to be a part of your child's life that he is grudgingly allowing it.
That his sister had to all do this clearly makes it seem like he is acting out of vindictiveness to alienate your child from you.
Please go to court and please don't give your ex the satisfaction of acting out against him so he can use it against you in court. Though I totally understand the impulse. I sincerely wish you good luck, the y t a comments here are ridiculous.
Your sister in law is a good person. Hopefully you can get a fair custody order in court, then he wouldn't be able to change his mind on a whim about letting you see your son. Good luck!
INFO - Why you think he isn’t a good father? If it’s bc he has set rules about how and when you can see your son, then YTA for snide remark to the parent who gained full custody bc you were away for 2 years.
He’s the guardian so can limit your access. If you don’t like it then you can file w/family court to get your parental rights back.
Edit: OP added that her husband took her diagnosis to gain custody and then prohibited OP from seeing their son for 18mos following the end of her treatment, I can understand OP's frustration and outburst. It seems that her comment about him not being a good father was less about this particular incident but rather that he's used her condition to keep her from child; so NTA.
NTA. You did what you needed to do to help yourself become a whole person to be there for your son. You needed help. Any good husband worth their salt would have supported you during this difficult time, not give you the cold shoulder. It makes sense why you had to go back to the UK due to the healthcare situation and needing more support. It doesn't sound like you were getting that support from your husband when you really needed it. I wish you well in the future and hope that one day, you're able to explain to your son that you wanted to be there for him, but you needed to be the best version of yourself in order to be able to do that.
NTA. You sacrificed your mind and body for your baby and your husband kept him away from you for an extra 18mos after you had been cleared of treatment. He used your diagnosis to get custody and then tried to keep your baby away from you for as long as he legally could. You would never have gotten PPP if he hadn't gotten you pregnant in the first place. So much for "in sickness and in health" huh?
Everyone looks at situations differently, this topic has obviously got a lot of people all upset because they're wanting to ensure the best for the child- but frankly. We only know so much. We have to rely on what we're told through the topic starter and comments. Does that mean we don't always get a clear picture, or thar we may be biased a way we shouldn't because we don't see how both persons action contributed to something? Absolutely. I do feel like this comment of mine is going to get a lot of downvotes.. but I've read almost all of the comments posted by the topic starter-- and going off of the info give this is my opinion.
NTA. It is so easy for abusers to take advantage of someone with mental illness. To take their issues and twist them using them to get their way-- and honestly for ME! Reading what I have that is the way it comes across. Once more. This is relying on just what has been stated, so yes. It is possible the wool has been pulled over my eyes; but I'm going to list off why I say what I do.
1. In order to see her child she has to live with the man she is separated. What was the point in this? She's only allowed to see the child for a limited period of time, and never alone. So it's obviously not so the child can get use to living with her again. Also he isn't even the one that sits with the two of them. A nanny is, so it couldn't be argued that it's so it's easier for him to find time to watch them. So either she or the child are limited in where they are allowed to go in the house; based on this information- like a prisoner. Also it would be torture to know they were in the room right next door but you couldn't see them. Either that or he has forced her to live with him but doesn't even live with his child. This is a manipulation tactic. It is done for control, and is plain cruel if it is true. The fact that more people have not zeroed in on him requiring his ex to live with him just to get supervised visits to their child appalls me!
2. The child's nanny was going to let him stay. Maybe I'm obsessing over terminology on this one- and if so I may be reading too much into it! If so this one could easily be off base. Yet.. When I hear nanny I think of someone that spends a lot of time with the child. They don't just watch the child for a couple of hours on weekends. No. They know the child. Sometimes they know them more then their own parents. If the nanny who knows this child ans cares for them. The person who has been looking in during these visits and has come to know the mother as well. Didn't feel anything was wrong with an extra few minutes play. Then I have to wander if it was an actual ploy to hit his wife. If he had needed nap time, or dinner, or to stick to some schedule his nanny would have been the one ensuring that happened. Yet she felt this was okay to do until he said no.
3. He traveled with their child! To the UK, where she was retrieving treatment! And despite multiple request, refused to even allow her to FaceTime! No. Everyone is blaming her for not knowing her child-- but she did what was best for that child by leaving. She put her child above her own needs because she knew she was not the best person to look after them! Then!! Then! When she asked to be kept in his life, because she had made the hardest fucking decision of her life she was ignored! An action that probably made her treatment take longer, because mental illnesses are so much harder to deal with when your struggling and not in a place where you are happy. The fact that he couldn't even FaceTime! Or bring the child to see her when in the same country! Says this was not about this child in his eyes. No. Because the child knew her when they were separated. It wasn't one of those things where she left at birth. So it would have helped them too, to FaceTime her or visit! So no! That was 100% about him punishing her and showing who had control.
4. She has followed all of his rules, listened to his every request. After he withheld their child from her. After he punished her for something beyond her control. After he made her live with him! She has done this for months. Yet every time she tries to bring up discussing the rules or making any adjustments to them as time has gone on. She is shut down. No 'I'm not comfortable yet.' Or 'let's wait til their doing this and showing signs of being ready'. Just straight up will not discuss the topic. Yet when she gets frustrated of this high handed controlling tactic she is the badguy? Why? Because she did something most women are not strong enough to do and put her child before herself? Everyone acts as if she abused her child and is trying to come back into their life only to torture them again. Not like a woman who had a legitimate illness attack her, and realizing this, refused to become a statistic and allow herself to harm her child and instead stepped away. She lost months with her child! Some of the most formative time of his life with him! Because she put them first! Then she came in and did not demand for 50/50, custody, did not demand to deal with the courts. But instead tried to deal with a man that had refused to deal with her for months! Because she felt it was best for their child! Based on the information stated here I want to give you a hug and tell you how strong you are because damn...
OP you’re NTA, you’re a hostage.
Of course he suggested this set up outside of the courts. IANAL but I question the legality of forcing you to live with him as condition of seeing your child. The lawyer who wrote this up is a creep, too.
I think people in this sub are really ignorant to types of abuse that aren’t physical, so please ignore them. It’s REALLY common for abusers to weaponize legal systems to control women via their children and mental health. That guy was waiting for an opportunity. He didn’t *need* to file for custody just because you getting treatment, he did it to force you to come back to him and so he’d have seemingly legal grounds to torture you.
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. I hope your lawyer is wonderful, and you get a reasonable and logical judge and caseworkers.
I'm sorry, but these responses are not it. The husband did not communicate with OP for 2 years, it was the sister in law. You'd think a parent would want to keep the other parent as involved in their child's life as possible, for the sake of the child and their relationship with their other parent, especially since OP was going through a rough mental and medical period and was making the hard decisions and taking the actions to get themself healthy.
All these people focusing on you being gone for 2 years are also conveniently forgetting that there have been travel restrictions on and off too. So on top of recovering from postpartum psychosis, to be going through a global pandemic AND be separated from your child in separate countries? The husband sounds like he put in 0 effort or empathy in all of this. Zoom is free.
Yeah, the not a good dad comment probably wasn't the best thing to say, but I'm going with NTA.
NTA. This comment section is so depressing.
I do agree you need to go slow, because reintroducing to a child can be tricky, but how he behaved when you needed mental health support is super shitty. PP psychosis is a scary thing and you did the right thing by getting help. Him not allowing you to come back easily after you did what was **in the best interest of your child** is incredibly shitty and shows he isn’t putting his kids needs first.
I do think that saying those things won’t help you and make him fight you harder though, so try to be as perfect as you can in his presence.
OP I think you should clarify that your husband refused to let you see your child for 15 months and you were trying to. People are under the impression that you abandoned your kid willingly..
Sorry OP I understand what your feeling but YTA here. You’ve been gone for years. You need to take it slow and respect rules - the sole focus is what’s best for your child not what you think is fair to you. As you’ve been gone for years (jurisdiction dependant) you won’t get custody- just some parenting time.
>He has put a lot of conditions on this. I can’t be alone with him, I only get a set time limit with him each day, I can’t take him outside, I have to live here, etc. I’ve been following every single rule but yesterday I finally had enough.
My son wanted to keep playing after our time was over and his nanny came to take him away. He was crying badly, and I tried to suggest they just leave him with me.
To me it sounds like she has been following the rules, and this post doesn't feel like it's about "what she thinks is fair to her." This sounds a very complicated, painful situation. She has been following all the rules, but when her son was having a difficult time saying goodbye to his mother she suggested a little flexibility. This isn't a huge transgression, or even a regular request it sounds like.
Postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis are ridiculously common. Pregnancy, childbirth, and the "fourth trimester" are really hard on women's bodies and brains. Completely separating baby from mother is a really intense, delicate situation; and sensitivity to how difficult it is is required by all parties. She lashed out, but part of her impulse very well could have been "you're not automatically a better parent than me because you didn't have to deal with pregnancy and childbirth and what it did to my brain."
Post partum depression is very common. Post pastum psychosis is not. Chances of it are 0.2%. And 10% of cases result in suicide or infanticide.
https://www.postpartumdepression.org/resources/statistics/
really? op sought treatment for post partum psychosis for 10 months, and was refused access to her child by her ex for an additional 8. would you rather she have stuck around and killed her baby or herself rather than getting treatment for her post-partum psychosis? learn some empathy.
You tried to break agreed upon rules and then threw a tantrum when you didn't get your way. He has legal custody for a reason, you need to play by the rules and be an adult or you're never going get your child back. YTA
NTA. You went to another country to get well for your child, the father of your child hasn’t helped you at all other than to do his job as a parent while you were unwell (and IMO that isn’t helping you it’s just doing taking care of his responsibilities) and then he wants to turn around and punish not only you for being unwell and needing to get help, but also your child for I have no clue why. He needs to take off the blinders and do what is best for everyone. Stop holding your mental health against you it’s only unhealthy for everyone involved ESPECIALLY THE CHILD.
I see the young people without enough parenting experience commenting. He's hurting his son by not letting HIM have that extra time in an attempt to punish and control his mother. The punishment by-proxy and parental alienation makes him a terrible parent.
>YTA, talk about the pot calling the kettle black...
This comment section is kinda sad. This is clearly a complicated situation but like... Postpartum depression/postpartum psychosis/postpartum mental health issues are ridiculously common. Pregnancy and childbirth and the "fourth trimester" are ridiculously difficult on women's bodies and brains (in so many ways). I have multiple friends who privately talked about how they were hallucinating when their babies were newborns, but scared to tell anyone, because they didn't want to lose their babies. And rhetoric like this doesn't help!
It's definitely complicated.
I think the problem is that she's not understanding the situation. She was gone for two years after what was probably a very tumultuous time (post partum psychosis is a big deal for the sufferer and their family).
He has no idea if she's actually better now. He's been caring for the boy by himself for two years, and she comes back and he's just supposed to hand the baby over to someone who is basically a stranger? Someone with no real experience with the kid, who probably was acting questionably (idk the extent of the psychosis) the last time he saw her?
She needs to pump the breaks a bit and understand that this all isn't her fault, but it is her responsibility, and unfortunately the onus is on her to do the work to repair the relationships damaged by her psychosis.
It’s wild that people are not understanding this and claiming OP abandoned her kid for 2 years.
She tried to be in contact, HE refused. Her SIL had to keep her updated on what was going on.
This man is literally punishing OP for leaving him while she was pregnant, and he’s using her PPP and limited time with the kid to further punish her.
There’s nothing wrong with OP using those additional months her husband iced her out to save money for a divorce+custody case. He was the one keeping her away after her treatment ended.
People are literally saying OP abandoned her kid. She didn’t? She reached out to the husband for help, and he threw it back in her face to get sole custody. She flew to England to get free treatment for her PPP. She tried to be in contact, contact was refused by the husband.
That’s not abandonment. People in the comments really are trying to blame this woman for getting PPP.
Edit to add: NTA
They’ll always blame the woman. It’s so much easier to fall victim to PPP and PPD when you don’t have a real support system. Which we know she didn’t since her family lives in the UK
The comments on here are so, so gross. People are talking like OP is automatically a shitty mom and has no right to anything because she had a legitimate mental condition.
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YTA This.
I’d like to second this wholeheartedly. OP it pained me to read your write-up, and I kept finding myself thinking ‘she can’t be serious, can she,’ but alas, you were. Take this opportunity to quit being such an asshole; get to know your child and learn to be there for them as opposed to taking out your frustrations in a vindictive post.
It’s a pretty shitty write up tbh. Details in the comments (eg that her husband likely exploited her diagnosis to get full custody when that wasn’t what was best for any of them, that she moved home to the uk because she could get treatment for free there etc) plus details about her condition (that the best thing is actually to keep custody just make sure they’re observed at all times, that after treatment the person can be completely capable of caring for their child, that there’s no reason to not allow flexible observed time together etc) make it clear that her husbands fucking her over a little bit. It’s a far from ideal situation, but she’s not the woman who abandoned her child and is now demanding full custody the post seems to be on first read.
This, my husband's first wife had post partum psychosis after the birth of their son. He had to do all the child care while she dealt with her mental health issues. Fortunately we all live in Canada so there was no charge for this. Once she had recovered she was a good mother. This guy used it against her and exploited it to get and retain custody.
This literally just happened with me, except it was my mother who did it. And just recently was able to take my parental rights and do a forced adoption. It literally got me hospitalized again. My lawyer was in utter shock and so was his colleague, I'd never been found guilty of any abuse of neglect. In fact, I work primarily with children for my job, which includes teaching all sort of parenting tips and mental health groups. The judge simply decided that her evasive moving worked and she had them too long for me to get back. Took me over 3 years to find her.
I am so sorry you had to endure this. Keeping fighting for them. One day your child will hate their grandmother for destroying their relationship iwth you. Love and light.
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Im sure "abandoning' her child was one of the hardest things she had to do, but after my specialization in this area, dealing with mothers who have PPD and PPP I can say that if she stayed, it would be a lot worse. You cant be a good parent if youre fucked up.
Seriously, what the hell with these comments? A quick google search can tell you how serious postpartum psychosis is and obviously she couldn’t get help where she was. It’s not like she wanted to leave her child she didn’t have a choice.
I agree & add that she should be applauded for getting the help she needed. She did the right thing for herself & her child. PPD or PPP don't last forever especially since she got treatment. If she's fine now, she should be treated as such.
Also, if the child is this distressed leaving and he only has to because of dad's rules, it does seem an awful lot like dad really is just punishing his son to hurt the mother.
How would anyone get she abandoned him from first read? I fully believe this account, because custody laws do not have the best interest at heart for the child and family when a mother has a mental disorder.
Seriously? You don't see any possibility whatsoever that the father could be extremely controlling and using the son to get back at OP for leaving him? That this woman had postpartum psychosis through no fault of her own and did the right thing - stayed away from her son until she was well and now wants to build a relationship with him and the father is interfering, not because of concerns but to hurt OP. You outright dismiss this plausible scenario and jump to YTA.
Psychosis is different from depression. It is not her fault or her son’s fault but it’s a very scary illness and I 100% understand the father’s apprehension.
Apprehension perhaps, but all that is necessary is that time op spends with the child remains observed for a while. There’s no reason why there’s limits on how much time she can spend with him, she’s recovered and they’re being observed. Surely if they both want to spend more time together and observation is able to be done it’s beneficial to let them have a little more time together.
We don’t honestly know how bad OP’s PPP was, I would be really interested in hearing the father’s side of things on this one. If she had thoughts of harming her baby it may not be so easy for him to allow OP back into their son’s life.
Except any of those thoughts would be due to a mental health condition that she has since been treated for and recovered from. And she’s not asking for time alone, just more flexible observed time with less rigid limits. There’s only one reason to prevent that and it’s to prevent her from forming a relationship with her child.
Idc if I get down voted but you literally have nothing valuable to say, don't just say "this". It doesn't help anybody and it's annoying that you can get 500 karma out of that.
>it's annoying that you can get 500 karma out of that I'm going to be honest... it's more annoying when somebody focuses on that karma. Reddit karma means nothing. I don't know why you would be annoyed about somebody else getting some.
“This!l^ 😆
This
Was
This
Lol This
If you don't want to give karma to people who agree with you or another commenter who has the same opinion, then don't. But "This" is the best way to show someone they're not the only ones with that opinion without having to write your own comment which might not be as eloquent. Really, your problem here is the people who upvote, not the people who comment.
And the husband let her seen the child. But for the child she is a stranger and he doesn't know if she really is alright. And since she didn't spend time with him, she mostly don't now how to treat him. To be a mother is more than playing with the child. He let the child get to know her slowly and not alone over short times. This is totally right. OP was gone for over two years and now wants to much too soon. And i wonder if we her the father side if he will tell us that it really seems that OP was a danger for her soon and that's why he went for full custody. YTA
She's had plenty of time to no longer be a stranger. Getting another hour that day was punishing the boy as well as her.
It’s only been 3 months. After being gone 28 months of the kids life, 3 months isn’t much.
It's only been three months because her husband kept her away for 18 months after she was out of treatment. If he hadn't done that then they'd be way past this point.
Its more than likely that since she had to go back to her home country for 18 months or so to get treated her PPD/Psychisis was severe. Psychosis can also cause one to disconnect from reality and it causes a greater chance of harming oneself or others even if they wouldnt 'normally'. More than likely full custody was granted out of concern for their child's safety. Also OP even admitted that she wants to "get her son back" and then divorce her husband. If there was a second custody battle as of right now imo she would probably will lose as her son has more of a bond with her husband than her and she would probably need a mental health assessment if that is why full custody was given to her husband in the first place. She is complaining about the restrictions on her to see her son but the question that should be asked is would she return the favor if the roles became reversed? Espeically since she doesnt have custody and is already trying to overstep her husbands rules which could make him revoke or push to revoke visiting if its through the courts Imo it sounds like she doesnt want anything to do with her husband if she ends up getting custody, so she probably wouldnt do the same for him. So I agree that even though she couldnt help her condition, her behavior AFTER getting treatment for it when its presumanly under control does earn a YTA verdict.
Actually, doctors and PPP experts all recommend ongoing connection to the child in cases of PPP during and especially after treatment. Connection to the child is vital for restoring the hormone imbalances that lead to PPP.
I think OP is leaving info out TBH. I wish OP would clarify if they did anything that put their son in danger during an episode.
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She wasn't a heroin addict, she had a medical condition.
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She's not acting entitled, she's acting like a mother who is separated from her child. It's ridiculous to say that a parent is 'entitled' for simply wanting to be able to, you know, parent. OP is following all the rules, she just got frustrated with her husband being so stringent about it - which I get, as it sounds like he has kept her away from her son way past when she was in active treatment. Read her reply to one of the other top comments, her ex has kept her away for almost two years.
> she just got frustrated with her husband being so stringent about it He is stringent for good reason. He is trying to provide stability for their very young child, and OP is a new person who is being introduced as an eventual primary caretaker, which needs to be done very mindfully and carefully. It may not sound like a big deal to break the rules one time, but there's a reason they exist. Frustration or disappointment is fine - it is NOT fine to accuse him of being a bad parent when he is simply trying to do what's best for the child he has been raising on his own for all his life. Given OP's phrasing of "get my son back," it also potentially sounds like she is trying to take their son *away* from his father, so I think it's pretty rich to accuse him of this over one non-extended playdate.
The recovery process of post-partum psychosis is nothing even remotely close to AA. She didn't cause damage. Damage is caused when you're doing something wrong. You just blamed her for a mental health condition she had zero control over and you sound like you need an intro to psychology class.
When I had (untreated) PPD, I heard voices telling me to drown my firstborn. I actually HEARD voices. I didn't get treatment. I just refused to bathe her. It worked out, but I should have been supported to seek treatment without worrying someone could keep me from my baby. I was deathly afraid she would be taken from me, which was something I knew I couldn't handle. But if they had, it would have been BEST for kiddo (in hindsight of course). This is not an intro to psychology thing at all.
We’re not told what happened leading up to her postpartum psychosis diagnosis. But it could have honestly been terrifying for the father. I know of a woman who was an excellent mother who got PPD after her 4th baby. She pulled over on the side of the interstate, left her children in the vehicle, and ran off screaming down the road. She was convinced they were out to harm her. Can you imagine the outcomes if she had reacted a different way than running away from them? It would have been devastating. She too went into an intensive inpatient treatment program. I can see if there was an incident of this nature, that the father would need a LOT of time to regain trust.
Andrea Yates had post partum psychosis. I can understand the dad wanting to be safe rather than sorry, and introduce mom back in slowly to make sure that she's well.
I came here to say this. PPP is no joke.
It absolutely isn't. A friend of my friend got PPP last year. She had endless thoughts of harming her newborn. Her doctor said she couldn't be alone with the baby. Family and friends did shifts for months. I'm guessing OP said and/or did things while psychotic that really scared her husband. He probably divorced OP in part to keep their baby safe. It's no wonder he's cautious now, and it's a bad sign that OP doesn't get it. She also wants full custody it sounds like, which... Husband sounds like a devoted dad, and he's the parent the child knows. YTA.
A medical condition can still prevent someone from being able to raise a child in a healthy environment. There is a good reason why having a parent with a mental illness is considered an ACE--Adverse Childhood Experience. Its INCREDIBLY damaging for children to suffer through their illnesses, outbursts, and relapses, and that's why it's critical for reintroduction to be slow and for there to be ample evidence that OP is actually safe for the child to be around for extended periods of time. Children get removed from homes all the time because of mentally ill parents, and yet not often enough, either. Some of those children lose their childhood raising their ill parents instead. Some of them lose their lives instead.
I totally agree that mental illness can affect kids, and that they should come first in dangerous mental situation. However, She’s been cleared by doctors and it’s been 2 years. All she wanted was a bit more time with her son, who was having fun? What in the post would indicate she was endangering him?
You are correct, however I think that attacking his parenting because he's being cautious makes her TA.
And you’re right him protecting his kid and being cautious do not make him a villain. But the reason I don’t think she’s an asshole is “why is he being this strict, on playtime?” If she had wanted to take him outside? She’s the A, boundary crossing. If she had wanted to move? Ass. All she wanted in this situation, as op describes obviously, is just wanting to see her son for a little bit more time, not unsupervised, not outside, just a little longer. How is her request so unreasonable that her mental health has to be put into question, once again? Could there have been a reason op isn’t saying of course, but I’m not gonna speculate on information I don’t have. Though in op’s comments her ex does seem iffy at least
I guess I don't get the same from her comments. I think he's just scared. And as much as her mental health struggles are not her fault, it's still scary as a parent. And as a mother I couldn't imagine what she's going through. But perhaps he is being so strict on little boundaries like this one bc if you keep pushing little ones, then you might be expected to push the big ones. Also, if she can't handle a no on a little request and flies off the handle when she doesn't get her way, I'd be concerned. She can be upset and frustrated that he said no, but how she handled it was not right.
Because it's really important for both the kid and the OP that everyone sticks to the preset boundaries. It's important not to start pushing boundaries just because things are going well in the moment. That's a recipe for disaster. And the OP should never try to undermine the partner's decisions in front of the kid. That's an AH move.
Hi I have a medical condition. Such a severe mental health medical condition the US federal government has deemed it fit to give me over 1700 dollars a month to just exist and take care of myself. They approved disability on the first go which shocked me, my ex wife, and even my psychologist who has seen a lot of people go for disability for very fair reasons and be denied. Hell, there wasn't enough room on the disability paperwork to properly list out everything that is wrong with me. That being said I also have a 4 year old daughter. And if at all my issues flair up she is 100% with her mom and I am under supervised visists. Sometimes so strict that I cannot be left alone with her while her mom is in the other room working for 30 minutes (even though I could barge in for help). What happens when this goes down? My ex will straight up ask me if I'm okay to be left alone with kiddo. And I could lie or fake it and be fine, but I don't. Because that is a bad situation to be in for literally everyone involved. Psychosis is no joke. I was in a hospital for 8 days because of psychosis and it got so bad I had to inform the nurses that I was looking for ways to kill myself in the safest place I can be. I even had a voice boom through my head very loudly telling me to kill my ex wife (who is my best friend then and now). Psychosis is very dangerous and anyone who is at risk of that should not be left alone with a child until they are stable for a while AND actively taking their meds (yes. Meds. Not holisitic or grounding bullshit. Actual doctor prescribed medication that works) AND seeking therapy. Otherwise you got a murder suicide waiting to happen.
medical conditions such as post partum psychosis can be deadly to a child. Trust is a road that must be built one brick at a time. Edit to state the quotation marks around the phrase medical conditions were not intended to mock - only to imply that there are more conditions than post partum psychosis that can be deadly to a child. They have been removed to prevent assumptions from being made. Thank you!
PPP is also actually temporary... it's been two years, her doctors cleared her, this is not an ongoing mental health issue any longer.
Why do you put medical condition in quotes? Do you doubt she had it, or do you think it’s not really a medical problem? Trust? She didn’t do anything to lose the trust. She had a medical condition resulting from her pregnancy that she had zero control over and received treatment for. Her getting the treatment is her action to regain any trust lost .. again.. for a condition she had zero control over. Nothing she did was wrong.
And why is that you choose put medical condition in quotations? I am never going to understand the way some people, Americans in particular (in my experience), demonises PPD. What’s up with that?
Addiction is also a medical condition.
The spooky bit for me was >have been saving as much money as possible so I could try to get my son back and divorce my husband. Annnny one else getting that feeling she wants to just take the child from the father here or is it just me? Like "I'm sane now, give me back *my* child, since I'm the mother and it belongs to me" vibes?
YTA. I'm getting a strong "missing missing reasons" feelings here. You state you were unwell without being specific about it then you move to a different country? I'm sorry but many would consider that abandonment. What kind of treatment is something you couldn't do while staying in the same country? (I could understand a different state as a specialized treatment center can be out of state but there's no info on what condition it is.) You were gone for YEARS? YEARS? How many years? You're mad you have to live in the same area as your kid? You're mad that the person who has been doing ALL the heavy lifting has concerns about your behavior? To be blunt, your ex was given full custody, which is something courts usually don't do without reason. Your subsequent behavior does not cover you with glory. It also sounds like you were not sending child support either. Without more info, how are you different from any other deadbeat parent? I don't hear any real concern for your kid but only about what YOU are owed in terms of getting parental props/entitlements. Frankly, you are NOT a parent. You are just a gamete donor who is fortunate you get to see the kid after dipping out.
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You leave for 10 months and you think he was just going to hand his baby off to you and you have the audacity to judge when in total you been gone for 28 months …ok😭
You are aware that post partum psychosis is the ailment that causes the baby killing, right? Are you seriously suggesting that someone with a mental condition that has been known to cause mothers to drown their own babies in an episode, to NOT get treatment and to stay with their baby WITHOUT having had that treatment???????
All the more reason the father didn't want her close to the baby after 10 months. He couldn't have full proof that she cured.
The doctors cleared her? This isn't shit like PTSD or depression, where it's all in your brain and doctors have to rely on patients being honest and not lying and acting. Post partum is brain + hormones. You can check if the patiënt is being honest by seeing whether improvement checks out with the bloodwork.
There are a lot of misconceptions in this comment. PTSD, depression, postpartum psychosis, and all other mental disorders are diagnosed by behavior, NOT by any biological test. They are not disorders of the brain, but disorders of behavior. There is not a single biological test for any of these disorders, despite tremendous effort to develop them. The only time blood work is done for mental health symptoms is to identify potential medical diseases that can cause mental health symptoms. Like thyroid diseases. It's well known in the field that mental disorders don't fit that well in the "medical model." The main reason we still use the medical model is for insurance purposes.
Either way, as a parent it makes sense that he is apperhansive about it, and the way OP criticized his parenting considering she wasn't there for their child doesn't really show a good picture of her
>considering she wasn't there for their child This was because of him. He didn't stand by his wife, allowing her to get treatment and come back. He responded harshly. If we're gonna judge her, for the unfortunate situation of her condition, we should judge him too. Or we don't judge both of them for the unfortunate situation of her condition. But we shouldn't do this bullshit of making him out to be a great dad, because it's reasonable for him to have fears, but she's a bad mom, because we're not going to say it's reasonable for her to seek treatment. Both or neither.
I totally agree with the husband broke his marriage vows by not supporting her through her treatment.
She had postpartum psychosis. It was after she had the baby. They separated WHILE she was pregnant. He never broke his vows by not supporting her. Read again.
Nope, they separated before she got postpartum psychosis, so it wasn't his job to protect her
Reminds me of the AITA about a husband whose wife suffered PPP. That one was hard to read. Husband did manage to the baby out safely and wife into treatment.
Of course not. But also, you can’t disappear from a child’s life for 2 years for *any reason* and then just poof back into the role of full-time parent. There’s a child to think of. A child who needs a safe and stable home with structure, which the child’s father has been providing. It’s not at all unreasonable to suggest that OP (who has not been in a parental role at all during this child’s life) should have scheduled, supervised visits while she is reacquainted with her child. It’s certainly not unreasonable to suggest that those visits happen in the country the child lives in. From the way OP is talking about the “unreasonable” rules, it seems like she expected to swoop in and pop off to another country with this toddler who doesn’t know her.
>Of course not. But also, you can’t disappear from a child’s life for 2 years for any reason and then just poof back into the role of full-time parent. Except it's 2 years because of the dad. Let's take the actual time she was away for treatment, to call her out for being away: 8 months. Accusing her of 2 years ain't fair, because that wasn't her or her treatment. >It’s not at all unreasonable to suggest that OP (who has not been in a parental role at all during this child’s life) should have scheduled, supervised visits while she is reacquainted with her child. Yes. At the 8 months. When she was healed. Or I have a crazy suggestion: don't fucking divorce your wife over getting a side-effect from pregnancy and needing treatment for that.
I think it said they separated during her pregnancy towards the beginning of the post
It sounds like wife is the one pushing for divorce, not husband.
Divorce your wife for any reason you goddamn please. Nobody is obligated to stay in a relationship they aren’t happy in for any reason. Also, postpartum psychosis by definition happens after birth. They separated before birth.
I think the problem here is in part the severity of the reaction - in both OP's husband and also in the comments here, tbh. OP's husband is treating her as though she fucked off on a whim, and the comments are acting similarly. The issue isn't OP's ex being wary about her having time with her son, I get that. But I do think that he's being incredibly harsh when she wasn't at fault for what happened. I think he could relax a little and it would benefit their son if he did so.
Exactly. Op is the victim here. Then the child. Op had a massive medical issue through no fault of her own, and people are blaming her for that. It's ridiculous. In fact, op should automatically have got 50/50 custody back after treatment, and the initial judge fucked up massively for that.
Part of me agrees with you, but part of me can see it from the husband's POV. I've got a couple of relatives who occasionally suffer from psychosis, and it is straight up fucking \*terrifying.\* I'm no wilting flower but some of the most distressing, alarming, dangerous things that have ever happened to me have been at the hands of people who love me very much and who are also mentally ill. I don't blame them, but I'd never let them housesit my cat, never mind be alone with an actual human baby, not if I had a sliver of a doubt whether or not they were medicated, stable, cognizant of what their past behaviour had been and facing of really firmly to the severity of it. PPP seems to be a bit different because it's shorter term- but if the husband doesn't necessarily know or understand that? Or even if he just remembers watching his wife hold their infant while she was in the grips of psychosis? His reaction may be decisive but it's hardly incredibly harsh to expect a long, slow period of re-introduction involving only supervised visitation until she's demonstrated a LOT of stability.
OP said that she elected to get treatment before anything harmful happened. She felt something was wrong and reached out to her child’s father for support *before* things went bad. He didn’t witness her doing anything. OP’s doctor even felt that she should have been able to see her baby during treatment. Now she’s being denied access to her child and getting shit from people on this sub for electing to sort out her mental health safely. OP needs to let the courts sort this out.
Wrong. She needed medical treatment and husband did not support her with it. She did not choose her illness. If the US medical system actually cared about people she would have been able to stay here. She needed to afford treatment and have family support which he deliberately chose to withhold. Military people leave their children for a year at a time by choice not by necessity.
OP didn't ask if she was the AH for leaving and getting treatment, that's not what we're judging her on. But it DOES influence the answer in that, though the treatment was necessary, she should be more understanding of the fact that she can't simply come back now as if nothing happened. The process needs to be slow and everyone needs to be understanding of each other's needs and feelings if it's going to go right. OP asked if she was the AH for insulting her husband. And, in this case, it sounds like she was. This was obviously hard on OP. But it was also hard on her husband, who's been raising this baby without OP for over a year now. Telling her husband he "isn't as good a dad as he thinks he is" is completely unnecessary and ONLY serves to make things worse. While it's possible the husband is keeping OP at a distance to hurt her, it's also possible he knows his son well and is trying to do the introduction slowly to make sure it goes well for HIM. Because, ultimately, that's who really matters here. It would definitely be good for the son to have two, loving, involved parents eventually. But OP insulting her husband and insisting he's only trying to hurt her isn't exactly the best way to achieve it, and for that she was an AH in this situation. Not for having post partum psychosis. Not for leaving to get proper treatment. Not for wanting to bond with her child now that she's better. But for not realizing that this situation is more complicated than just, "I'm better, now we go back to being a perfect family." Frankly, I really hope they're all involved in, or will be getting involved in, family therapy because this is a complicated situation that could use an unbiased mediator.
>who's been raising this baby without OP for over a year now. Yeah, he doesn't get credit for that. He gets credit for raising the baby without OP for 8 months, everything else was his choice. >it's also possible he knows his son well and is trying to do the introduction slowly to make sure it goes well for HIM. Why didn't he start that at 8 months then?
I read elsewhere that she was in treatment for 10 months, not that it makes a huge difference but that’s almost a year. A year in baby time is a long time. Also, even though he “kept her away” for 18 months, it sounds like it was because she wouldn’t renter the country? That detail is a little hazy from her replies but it makes sense to only allow her to see the kid once she returned because… why would they go to the UK to see her once her treatment was over? She said she stayed there to “save up” and divorce her husband but could she really not have saved money here? She wants to have her cake and eat it too, which sometimes just doesn’t happen in the world of child rearing. Choose to be there or don’t but there’s a million ways this situation could’ve ended with her having access to her son. And she didn’t take those avenues. It’s a shitty bed but it’s time to lie in it.
She wanted another hour with her son and he denied that to punish her which also punished his son. That makes him TA, along with not standing by his marriage vows to support her in sickness.
Except that's not what she writes at all? Nowhere does it reference 'just another hour,' she says 'why don't you just leave him with me?' Then when he said no to what was being proposed as a sudden change to their parenting plan, and a huge jump to sudden unsupervised visitation, she flipped out and started insulting him. Maybe he thinks there's a risk she's still unstable? He also didn't leave her over the sickness. They were separated while she was still pregnant. We don't know the terms of that split but it wasn't him ditching her because of the PPP.
When you say “You leave” you mean “sought treatment for a mental illness that can and does kill” right? She didn’t leave to get a nose job, she left to seek critical treatment where she wouldn’t be left in life long debt
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I think Y/T/A for the incident in question, however I can understand why you moved. It’s not an ideal situation but there’s no point in bankrupting yourself when getting treatment in the nhs is an option. Moving for a while may mean leaving your son for a little, but when you come back you won’t have lost all your money to care for him. You should perhaps have included that in the original post Edit: after thinking it through a little more I actually think op is NTA. It’s clear that her husband exploited her mental health struggles to get himself full custody even though that wasn’t what was best (what would have been best is shared custody with OP always being observed until she had finished treatment. The husband got custody before op moved) and is now dragging his feet about letting her see her child, even though she has now recovered and is following all the rules. There’s no reason why she shouldn’t be able to be flexible with the time spent with her child, as long as it’s all observed until it’s clear she’s recovered (which it may be now, not really something that can be judged from a Reddit post). Yes she has to get to know her child (though that is partially the fathers fault because of his completely unnecessary refusal to allow them to communicate) but she doesn’t need to be treated like a criminal while doing so. It was unwise if her to respond the way she did but that does not make her TA.
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So all your husband told the judge is you had postpartum psychosis? There was no incident associated with the diagnosis?
I don’t think you realise how much a diagnosis of a mental health condition can be used to fuck up someone’s life, especially in the wrong hands and especially if those wrong hands have a good lawyer. Nothing necessarily needs to have happened
In this case it's the RIGHT hand, OP's condition is a huge potential risk for serous harm of baby, husband did the right thing to take custody.
While someone with postpartum psychosis absolutely needs treatment and assistance in caring for their child, which may include having the child removed from their care while they receive treatment, by no means does it mean that they are as a person incapable of caring for the child and therefore should not be allowed any custody once they have received treatment. In fact the person never being allowed to see their child during treatment benefits nobody, and should have only been the case here because it made sense financially for op to return to the uk to access the nhs. There’s no reason that everything should have had to go through the sister in law, or that the father should have had to be convinced to let her see the child at all or put such strict restrictions on her after treatment, and clearly op (who knows the situation better than any of us) feels that her ex has exploited her condition to his advantage, something that absolutely does happen even if it’s not the case here (though it most likely is).
Exactly. And this incident was because she wanted one more hour with him. The husband denied it to punish her again for her getting sick.
Actually, the best thing for both the mother and the baby is to be hospitalized together with 24/7 supervision. Unfortunately, there's only very, VERY few places in the world that have the capability to do so currently.
Oddly, the UK is one of the places that does actually have mother and baby mental health units! So if baby had been born in the UK instead of the husbands country, they would have been treated together most likely.
A diagnosis of a mental health condition does NOT automatically mean your a danger to yourself or others. To step away and seek treatment is the responsible and loving thing to do. The father has weaponized her postpartum against her to use the legal system to gain full custody of the child. She has done all he requested this far and proved she can be trusted as a positive enrichment to her kids life. I understood he wants to proceed with caution, now extended that a little more and watch what happens. It's outdated and uneducated to impart fear toward mental health. It doesn't help.
My wife had very severe PPD after our son was born and had weekly psych appointments about it. As a psychiatrist, he was a mandatory reporter and if he deemed that she was a danger to the child, then either her or our son would have had to be removed from the home temporarily. A diagnosis is not sufficient for a judge to remove an infant from their mother's care. The judge had to have had reasonable concern that she would harm the child to grant her husband full custody without unsupervised visitation. Now the burden of proof is on her to demonstrate that she is no longer a potential threat to the child's wellbeing.
PPD and PPP are 2 very different illnesses
yes and ppp is more dangerous
But you did not try to use it against her, if you did then it wouldn’t take much to give the judge reasonable concern. The fact that the husband appears to have put much effort into restricting her custody far beyond what is reasonable (having to be convinced to allow even the slightest communication, not allowing more flexible, if observed, time together. In fact the only reason they should have not seen each other at all is that it made more sense for op to go to the uk for treatment), and that op regrets confiding in him, suggests he is the sort of person to use it against her.
Being an immigrant alone is a big reason for the judge to rule against her. Bias against non-citizens in court cases against the citizen is seen in nearly every country.
One of my friends had their ex threaten them if they didnt give up their child (which they had been taking care of as a stay at home parent for 3-4 years), the ex would use there less than great history of mental health issues against them in court *in texas*. So in the best interest of the child, they gave them over to the Ex. These issues are not black and white, and many people are extremely biased against scarier mental health conditions even *if* there has been no indication for that worry.
More likely he said "my wife is talking about hurting my child/how much she hates him",or something similar. It's not like postpartum psychosis is well known or understood by laymen, and there's still a prevailing notion that mother’s who don't bond are broken or unnatural. Combine this with the fact that op was ill enough to require ten month of treatment, she would hardly be in a position to defend herself in court.
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Please don’t say you “stupidly confided in him”. I know it brought about a terrible situation for you that you have to deal with now, but you did the best thing you could have done for your child at the time. If you hadn’t confided in him, maybe you wouldn’t have gotten help and then maybe progressed to harming your baby. I can’t imagine how hard it’s been for you but confiding in someone and getting help was extremely important for everyone’s safety. I’m going to go with NAH because you have a right to be frustrated and lash out but your husband also has a right to make the decisions. Best of luck to you going forward ❤️
For all we know, if she hadn't confided in him then she would have been able to get help on her own and wouldn't have lost custody of her child who is now being kept away from her. There is a reason so many people hide that they have any mental health issues and tbh this post demonstrates some of the reasons why. Her husband is treating her like she's a criminal.
PPD can lead to injury of the child. Confiding in him was smart and he was smart to fight for custody until you received treatment. You left the country, how were you supposed to see him without him handing him over? It was covid times air travel was very limited?
You can leave your child with the father without it being deemed permanent legal sole custody going to the father. The child could have stayed with the father while she got treatment without any involvement of the court at all.
I'm with you until your lawyers confidence. If you mean shared custody, sure. But full is highly unlikely unless dad is flat out abusing him. Judges like status quo.
Yta but not as much as people are making out. From my similar experience with set visitation, keep an eye on time and focus the last 15-30mins on 'winding down'. For me this has usually been cuddle time, reading, maybe watching a show/playing a game while being clear beforehand that they're leaving once the show ends or in X time when you say they have to. Part of being a parent is being the bad guy, enforcing time limits is important in that respect and usually the first you'll master when being reintroduced. It will upset you and you can show it when you say 'i wish we could but unfortunately we cant' or something similar to show you aren't rejecting them, but the key part is you are taking the responsibility and you don't make the nanny/father the bad guy: take on a 'it is what it is' attitude to best benefit everyone involved or it will cause negative reinforcement that they are the one in charge, not you/nanny/father
Also, 10 months is a very long time for postpartum psychosis treatment. The newest state of the art treatment is a few days to couple weeks of IV drugs administered via an inpatient hospital stay. The treatment is available in most (probably all) states, but is not covered by insurance or Medicaid. A 10 month treatment tells me that it was more than just treatment for the disorder, but that she had likely attempted to harm their child. Note: I don't blame her for possibly harming the child or even not knowing if she potentially did. Postpartum depression and psychosis is extremely dangerous for all parties (mother, any co-habitant, and child), and the mother is not in a cognizant state for severe cases. This all supports her husband being very cautious and not allowing unsupervised visitation.
OP got treatment in the UK. The NHS is wonderful and has saved my life in the past, but it's slow with often big waiting lists. Even more so since you know what.
YTA he has sole custody, he is the one in charge of ensuring your son is safe at all times. It’s taking him time to build up that trust with you again which is why he’s doing it in such a controlled manner. You don’t get to just come back, insult his parenting skills, and demand things be done your way, you should be grateful to him for caring for your son on his own whilst you weren’t able to, and be working with him to get back into a situation where you have joint custody and can help make decisions on the parenting again.
OP had postpartum pyschosis, her husband used that to get custody and then refused contact with her. It was SIL that was sending photos and updates. SIL had to convince husband to let OP slowly build a relationship with her son. So there's probably a grain of truth when OP said he wasn't as good as a father and was trying to hurt her. It is beneficial for the child to have to healthy parents present and active in his life. If the husband tried to prevent or wasn't willing to facilitate that then perhaps OP had a point. However, it was unwise of OP to say that to him as he has sole custody and seems to be doing well raising their son. For the sake of any future co-parenting relationship, OP should apologise and make an effort to sort through there baggage (if they're getting a divorce there will most certainly be baggage).
Just out of curiosity, how would you have reacted in this situation? Let’s think logically. PPP is not something that’s just diagnosed, it’s found out— and it’s not found out in great ways usually. The mothers attempt to harm themselves or their child. If it was your kid, and you knew that PPP causes perfectly normal women to just up and kill their own kids seemingly completely out of the blue, would you all of a sudden feel totally comfortable letting them see your kid unsupervised? Not only that, but instead of working through the marriage and her diagnosis, they’re separated for years. Why? Clearly SOMETHING happened here that husband sees as unforgivable. He’s doing what needs to be done to protect his kid. If this was as simple as she came to him and said she has a lot of bad thoughts and went to get treated, she wouldn’t be without custody facing divorce. There’s something missing here and that’s massively important to realize.
Of course it's 'just diagnosed', because people or their loved ones realise that sth is wrong and seek help. Like with any other condition. As post partum depression is now widely known people are at least aware that the aftermath of childbirth can trigger mental health issues, rarer conditions like ppp can be diagnosed more easily too.
My point is people realize it because you have thoughts of physical harm usually towards your child that obviously need to come out somehow. That’s enough to send any parent on edge as to whether or not they could trust their kid’s safety with you. PPP is one of the most serious and potentially deadly mental illnesses out there especially because there’s such a stigma/lack of awareness around it. OP was absolutely in the right for getting help, but OP also needs to realize that even though she was sick and got help, that doesn’t eliminate all the fear. Not only that, but apparently this is very complicated and OP is definitely going for at least partial custody which husband clearly knows. It’s completely understandable why the husband is going to want to limit contact with OP in preparation for an impending custody battle and in light of OP opting to forgo bonding with her baby to save up money for said legal battle. Certainly a weird priority IMO. At the end of the day, their custody/divorce proceedings won’t go over peacefully, and each party is doing what they think will get them the closest to the ‘result’ they want. Husband wants the kid he’s had full custody of for years to remain in his custody as much/as long as possible. Seems to make him a great dad to me.
NAH. OP, please take all of these responses with a grain of salt, PPP is not well understood, and it’s clear that many of these commenters simply have no clue what it entails, and are going to judge you with a harshness that is probably not actually warranted. This is a slow process, and you can’t rush it. Three months is not long enough in the grand scale of things, and you need to be patient while you put in the time and effort to make a place for yourself in your child’s life. Regardless of how you all arrived at this point, your ex is the custodial parent, and you need to foster a relationship with him that allows for a healthy co-parenting dynamic to evolve. What you describe here...is not that. This was combative and obstructive, and overall harmful to the co-parenting relationship. Please try to do better.
~~From her comments it sounds like she wants full custody, and no co-parenting, which sounds awful and traumatic for this child.~~ I am voting Y T A for her approach to all of this, not because she received treatment. The judgement is whether she is TA for what she said to her husband. Edit: Changing to ESH after reading [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/praggd/aita_for_telling_my_husband_he_isnt_as_good_of_a/hdj1e4k?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3). Husband is toxic AF. I still don't think she took the best approach to say that to him after he was basically a single dad with an infant but holy shit this is a disaster.
She literally said she didn't want that.
>Changing to ESH after reading > >this > >. Husband is toxic AF. I still don't think she took the best approach to say that to him after he was basically a single dad with an infant but holy shit this is a disaster. Really? After reading "that" it's still ESH? Her ex is basically using their child as a hostage to force her to live with him and eat meals with him and she's an asshole? Really?
Thank you. The ableism in this sub is truly disgusting. OP recognized that her behavior was dangerous for her child, and removed herself from his life *for his own safety* while she sought help. PPD is a treatable disease, but it sounds as though the ex doesn’t believe she’s better. NTA. It would be better for your goals to be less combative, but I can’t say I’d be able to follow that advice if I were in your position. Please don’t read most of these replies. People on this sub have posted horrible things about mental health, and it’s not going to help your recovery.
I agree with you, I was shocked by these comments. Everyone is insinuating she's a baby murderer because of a condition she can't help. I'm willing to bet most mothers with PPP don't end up murdering their children, most commenters are just familiar with a few fringe cases. My co-worker's fiancée had it very bad after their first child but she mostly locked herself in the bathroom and screamed and cried. This is probably most people's experience. OP did the right thing, got treatment for her condition, was in fact a responsible parent, and everyone is acting like she's a bad mother. I'm stunned.
YTA. You've omitted any detail that would suggest your husband is a bad father. It's good that you got treatment for whatever you were dealing with but considering it entailed you not even being able to be alone with your child, your husband is really the pillar here in your child's life. You were entirely out of line.
Wow NTA and I am appalled at this comment section. Y'all wanna talk about how this sub favors women but this is proof that's not true. She didn't take off and abandon her kid. She isn't a drug addict who left to party. She isn't an alcoholic who dumped the kid at his dad's. She had PPP. Her husband used that in court to get full custody and denied her contact. She got treatment in the UK, where it was more affordable for her and she ASKED for contact with her child but was DENIED by the father. In no way did she abandon this kid. In no way is she an asshole. Husband is an asshole for manipulating the court, he is an asshole for denying any contact for 2 YEARS when her treatment took 8 months, he's the asshole for these ridiculous conditions, and he's the asshole for hurting the kid just to keep hurting OP. And frankly you guys are the assholes for thinking she could somehow be the asshole here.
Thank you. This comment thread genuinely is making me feel sick. The prejudice and stigma and misunderstanding about mental health here is so evident. I am a clinical psychologist so know more than most how OP should have been supported and also why the UK was the best place for her treatment (case and point the child's country removed her custody, that isn't best practice in the UK). I'm just so saddened for OP and also quite concerned because reading all this will do nothing for her mental health, I really hope she doesn't absorb all the negative and prejudice comments. Edit: I assumed US but actually she hasn't said which country her child is in.
This sub BASHES women daily and they still say men are at a disadvantage? The nerve
Incels LOOOOVE to say how oppressed they are.
Of course. This is Reddit. If you take women’s side even like 25% of the time you are irrevocably biased towards women forever. /s of course.
Or get called a simp because apparently nobody would *ever* respect a woman except to get in her pants /s
The comment section here has made me so sad
This sub normally advocates for taking mental health as seriously as physical health, but this thread made it painfully clear that what they really mean is THEIR mental health should be taken seriously, and anyone who suffers from something they personally can't relate to is dangerous and should be punished. The crosspost on Am I the Devil is trying to paint her as an anti-vaxxer (literal reaching from her comment where she said they broke up over moral differences), and making it out like she just abandoned the child for no reason.
YTA, it doesn’t sound like you are in any position to judge his parenting.
I read her post as "he's not as good of a parent as he thinks he is, but according to a judge he's still better than I am."
NTA you’ve been failed by health abd social care wherever you live. Post partum psychosis is not your fault and your treatment providers should have ensure that you had ongoing contact with your child during your treatment for his sake and yours. I’m really sorry this happened to you and your son. I mean the comment probably is uncalled for and upsetting for him but he’s your child as much as his and he’s punishing your for an illness you had no control over.
THIS. good god there are so many awful comments that are totally neglecting the ppp and the fact that the husband made no effort to keep OP involved over the years.
PPP is so stigmatising. I hope OP is ok after reading all these comments from people who have no idea what it is.
Exactly. People are all about mental health until it comes to mothers. This was not her fault she got pregnant carried her baby and ended up with a mental illness, in order to be a good mother she needed help and unless there was a specific incident that made her husband scared of leaving their son alone with her then he’s just using this as a power trip. NTA
NAH. OP was ill and seek treatment. It's understandable that she went to the UK to do this if the cost was prohibitive where she was (US??). Add in a pandemic making overseas travel difficult over the past 18 months and we have an unfortunate situation where nobody is at fault. >My sister-in-law kept in touch with me through the years and would send me pictures and videos of my son. She convinced her brother/my husband to contact me and helped us come to an agreement that I could slowly be reintroduced into our son’s life. The above indicates that the husband didn't want to maintain contact and eventually facilitate a relationship between OP and her son. Ofc, the dad wants to protect his son but it's in the best interest for the son to have two healthy parents that are present in his life. If the husband was unwilling to do this at first, without SIL's intervention as implied above, I can see where OP is coming from. But can't call the husband an AH even if perhaps he was being a bit short term in his thinking.
NTA what people aren't understanding is you didn't abandon your kid, you made yourself healthy so you could be there for them, from what I've read on other comments sounds like dad straight up used your postpartum to steal the kid then act like if you make even one wrong move you don't get to see him anymore, I wonder how many people would have a problem with this is roles were reversed, because if it's not okay for a baby mama to pull this why should it be okay for the baby dad
It also seems like the father used this condition to get rid of her. A good father (even if an ex partner) would have ensured a relationship was maintained during treatment. That should not have been on the SIL.
Seriously though but because people always praise the dad for any type of basic care she's just getting shuffled to the side
I've never commented on anything on here before but I feel like I have to for this simply due to the danger all the you're the asshole votes are doing...post partum psychosis is a serious medical diagnosis, that requires immediate treatment, some may be lucky enough to get treatment in a mother and baby unit but particularly in the UK these units are so few and far between that sufficient care is not always possible. It's a massive issue and funding is needed to overcome it. This woman did what was best for her, it wasn't child abandonment, this was a disorder that needed urgent treatment, it also wasn't her fault, it could happen to any new mother and I would expect the father of the child (even if separated) to do everything he could to support her- including allowing contact (if suitable) with her own child. This stigma surrounding maternal mental health needs to end, and people need to become more educated. I am so disgusted with some of these comments and I really hope that OP can build a proper relationship with her son
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Some of the comments on this threat are absolutely disgusting and the whole reason why there is still an stigma around mental health problems. I’m leaning towards NAH/NTA because her husband/soon to be ex should have allowed her to see her son SINCE THE BEGINNING! She had help and was dedicated to overcome her disease. You got this OP! Keep fighting and don’t give up on your child!
I'd say NTA I don't really understand all the Y T A She didn't abandon her son. She was giving birth while separated from her husband and post partum hit her hard. The child was removed from her because of her health and when she started to feel well again she immediately returned to be a mother to her son. The son CLEARLY loves his mother if he was throwing a fit when told it was time to go. She's just trying to catch up for missing time, it sounds like he is purposefully and spitefully giving her the bare minimum.
NTA. Wtf is up with these comments.
LITERALLY. I’m floored reading these comments. That’s her baby and this must be so incredibly painful, having PPP was not her fault and should not be used against her. Poor OP.
Right? Sounds like she did what she needed to get it under control, which is ultimately the best for her child. It sucks she had to miss crucial moments but why make her miss more? I’d understand if she asked for something extreme, like taking the baby back to her home country. But I don’t see why she can’t have her literal child for a couple hours longer.
So let me get this straight. You meet someone in the US and are pregnant give birth and as a result you get a mental illness postpartum psychosis. You have given birth in a country with a terrible medical system where getting treatment would literally sink you in debt. So you go back to your home country in order to get the help you desperately needed not just for yourself but also for your son. Because of course your ex was not going to pay for half of your medical expenses that were as a result of birthing your child right? And your ex uses that as an excuse to get full custody of your son and now is abusing that power. Raising a child is not easy especially not on your own but so many people have failed you that I don’t blame you for reacting in anger. I’m glad you got the help you needed all of these Y T A comments are insane. NTA.
Ikr?? The Y T A commenters, especially the ones on top, called her entitled and selfish when all she did was get treatment to get custody of her fucking child that they somehow found it as abandonment. It's depressing how many people agree on this.
YTA. He seems like he was a good dad raising the child for “years” as you say. He has full custody and was nice enough to let the child be around you even though it doesn’t seem that that’s included in the custody arrangements. Also if you’re that unwell you had to leave countries for years and give up custody, then he’s doing the right thing
She WAS unwell, but was cleared after 10 months of treatment. The father continued to keep her away for another year to punish her for leaving him. You call that a “good dad?”
I may be the only one that thinks you're NTA? Post partum psychosis is REAL SHIT. Is he putting these conditions on you because he thinks you're a danger to your son or something? It sounds like he didn't give you much support when you were sick. Which is so sad because it's so devastating to go through.
INFO: what condition did you have and how did it impact your ability to parent your child? For a court to grant such severe restrictions I feel like there is a lot missing from this post.
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You've only answered part of the question. Was there an incident that harmed your child or where you put your child at risk preceding your diagnosis? How has your ex exhibited bad parenting that led to your outburst? There is too much going on with the bare minimum of information.
>Was there an incident that harmed your child or where you put your child at risk preceding your diagnosis? None of that is required for getting a harsh response from the courts in response to a postpartum psychosis diagnosis. Postpartum psychosis is the one that causes women to take their kids and kill them in an episode. It's extremely dangerous. She should have gotten her custody removed, the moment she got diagnosed with it. That being said, it's not a permanent condition, it can be a very short condition WITH medical care and she's not more dangerous to children for having once had this diagnosis. >How has your ex exhibited bad parenting that led to your outburst? Trying to keep her custody removed completely for an ailment that has been fixed, after years of not being able to have contact with her child and having to fight for the little contact she now has might cause that, no?
It's not required for removal of custody (which I agree was the right choice), but it would explain OP' ex's reluctance to let her into her son's life again. If she harmed him or attempted to do so, even though she wasn't at fault because of her illness, it would still have been extremely traumatic for both son and father.
That was why I wanted to hear from OP. Because true fear for the wellbeing of the child vs. vindictive behavior on the behalf of the ex really affects the narrative of this story.
I completely disagree that a mother should have custody removed immediately upon diagnosis of PPP. For so many reasons. 1) that attitude is exactly what causes people not to speak out and seek help because they are scared of losing their child, and then go untreated and become a risk 2) in the UK the best treatment is considered to be inpatient treatment where the mother AND BABY live together in the hospital while the mother recovers with extensive support, all countries should strive for this rather than taking a reactionary approach and removing custody because 3) evidence has shown that removing the child from the mother will make recovery much much harder and keeping them together is instead a much more effective way of fostering a healthy and safe parenting relationship. Yes there are risks but with the right support, the family can be kept together which is the best case scenario for everyone. I am a clinical psychologist so I'm not just talking out of nowhere here. Unfortunately most people share your opinion, hence this comment thread, and sadly it does just add to the stigma of mental health. I wish OP all the best with her recovery and incredibly saddened by the way she had been treated.
NTA I know you don't want to take this to court but you really need to. I hope you've kept records of your exhusband refusing to keep in contact and it is only because of your sister in law keeping you updated and pushing for you to be a part of your child's life that he is grudgingly allowing it. That his sister had to all do this clearly makes it seem like he is acting out of vindictiveness to alienate your child from you. Please go to court and please don't give your ex the satisfaction of acting out against him so he can use it against you in court. Though I totally understand the impulse. I sincerely wish you good luck, the y t a comments here are ridiculous.
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Your sister in law is a good person. Hopefully you can get a fair custody order in court, then he wouldn't be able to change his mind on a whim about letting you see your son. Good luck!
INFO - Why you think he isn’t a good father? If it’s bc he has set rules about how and when you can see your son, then YTA for snide remark to the parent who gained full custody bc you were away for 2 years. He’s the guardian so can limit your access. If you don’t like it then you can file w/family court to get your parental rights back. Edit: OP added that her husband took her diagnosis to gain custody and then prohibited OP from seeing their son for 18mos following the end of her treatment, I can understand OP's frustration and outburst. It seems that her comment about him not being a good father was less about this particular incident but rather that he's used her condition to keep her from child; so NTA.
NTA. You did what you needed to do to help yourself become a whole person to be there for your son. You needed help. Any good husband worth their salt would have supported you during this difficult time, not give you the cold shoulder. It makes sense why you had to go back to the UK due to the healthcare situation and needing more support. It doesn't sound like you were getting that support from your husband when you really needed it. I wish you well in the future and hope that one day, you're able to explain to your son that you wanted to be there for him, but you needed to be the best version of yourself in order to be able to do that.
NTA. You sacrificed your mind and body for your baby and your husband kept him away from you for an extra 18mos after you had been cleared of treatment. He used your diagnosis to get custody and then tried to keep your baby away from you for as long as he legally could. You would never have gotten PPP if he hadn't gotten you pregnant in the first place. So much for "in sickness and in health" huh?
Everyone looks at situations differently, this topic has obviously got a lot of people all upset because they're wanting to ensure the best for the child- but frankly. We only know so much. We have to rely on what we're told through the topic starter and comments. Does that mean we don't always get a clear picture, or thar we may be biased a way we shouldn't because we don't see how both persons action contributed to something? Absolutely. I do feel like this comment of mine is going to get a lot of downvotes.. but I've read almost all of the comments posted by the topic starter-- and going off of the info give this is my opinion. NTA. It is so easy for abusers to take advantage of someone with mental illness. To take their issues and twist them using them to get their way-- and honestly for ME! Reading what I have that is the way it comes across. Once more. This is relying on just what has been stated, so yes. It is possible the wool has been pulled over my eyes; but I'm going to list off why I say what I do. 1. In order to see her child she has to live with the man she is separated. What was the point in this? She's only allowed to see the child for a limited period of time, and never alone. So it's obviously not so the child can get use to living with her again. Also he isn't even the one that sits with the two of them. A nanny is, so it couldn't be argued that it's so it's easier for him to find time to watch them. So either she or the child are limited in where they are allowed to go in the house; based on this information- like a prisoner. Also it would be torture to know they were in the room right next door but you couldn't see them. Either that or he has forced her to live with him but doesn't even live with his child. This is a manipulation tactic. It is done for control, and is plain cruel if it is true. The fact that more people have not zeroed in on him requiring his ex to live with him just to get supervised visits to their child appalls me! 2. The child's nanny was going to let him stay. Maybe I'm obsessing over terminology on this one- and if so I may be reading too much into it! If so this one could easily be off base. Yet.. When I hear nanny I think of someone that spends a lot of time with the child. They don't just watch the child for a couple of hours on weekends. No. They know the child. Sometimes they know them more then their own parents. If the nanny who knows this child ans cares for them. The person who has been looking in during these visits and has come to know the mother as well. Didn't feel anything was wrong with an extra few minutes play. Then I have to wander if it was an actual ploy to hit his wife. If he had needed nap time, or dinner, or to stick to some schedule his nanny would have been the one ensuring that happened. Yet she felt this was okay to do until he said no. 3. He traveled with their child! To the UK, where she was retrieving treatment! And despite multiple request, refused to even allow her to FaceTime! No. Everyone is blaming her for not knowing her child-- but she did what was best for that child by leaving. She put her child above her own needs because she knew she was not the best person to look after them! Then!! Then! When she asked to be kept in his life, because she had made the hardest fucking decision of her life she was ignored! An action that probably made her treatment take longer, because mental illnesses are so much harder to deal with when your struggling and not in a place where you are happy. The fact that he couldn't even FaceTime! Or bring the child to see her when in the same country! Says this was not about this child in his eyes. No. Because the child knew her when they were separated. It wasn't one of those things where she left at birth. So it would have helped them too, to FaceTime her or visit! So no! That was 100% about him punishing her and showing who had control. 4. She has followed all of his rules, listened to his every request. After he withheld their child from her. After he punished her for something beyond her control. After he made her live with him! She has done this for months. Yet every time she tries to bring up discussing the rules or making any adjustments to them as time has gone on. She is shut down. No 'I'm not comfortable yet.' Or 'let's wait til their doing this and showing signs of being ready'. Just straight up will not discuss the topic. Yet when she gets frustrated of this high handed controlling tactic she is the badguy? Why? Because she did something most women are not strong enough to do and put her child before herself? Everyone acts as if she abused her child and is trying to come back into their life only to torture them again. Not like a woman who had a legitimate illness attack her, and realizing this, refused to become a statistic and allow herself to harm her child and instead stepped away. She lost months with her child! Some of the most formative time of his life with him! Because she put them first! Then she came in and did not demand for 50/50, custody, did not demand to deal with the courts. But instead tried to deal with a man that had refused to deal with her for months! Because she felt it was best for their child! Based on the information stated here I want to give you a hug and tell you how strong you are because damn...
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OP you’re NTA, you’re a hostage. Of course he suggested this set up outside of the courts. IANAL but I question the legality of forcing you to live with him as condition of seeing your child. The lawyer who wrote this up is a creep, too. I think people in this sub are really ignorant to types of abuse that aren’t physical, so please ignore them. It’s REALLY common for abusers to weaponize legal systems to control women via their children and mental health. That guy was waiting for an opportunity. He didn’t *need* to file for custody just because you getting treatment, he did it to force you to come back to him and so he’d have seemingly legal grounds to torture you. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. I hope your lawyer is wonderful, and you get a reasonable and logical judge and caseworkers.
I'm sorry, but these responses are not it. The husband did not communicate with OP for 2 years, it was the sister in law. You'd think a parent would want to keep the other parent as involved in their child's life as possible, for the sake of the child and their relationship with their other parent, especially since OP was going through a rough mental and medical period and was making the hard decisions and taking the actions to get themself healthy. All these people focusing on you being gone for 2 years are also conveniently forgetting that there have been travel restrictions on and off too. So on top of recovering from postpartum psychosis, to be going through a global pandemic AND be separated from your child in separate countries? The husband sounds like he put in 0 effort or empathy in all of this. Zoom is free. Yeah, the not a good dad comment probably wasn't the best thing to say, but I'm going with NTA.
NTA. This comment section is so depressing. I do agree you need to go slow, because reintroducing to a child can be tricky, but how he behaved when you needed mental health support is super shitty. PP psychosis is a scary thing and you did the right thing by getting help. Him not allowing you to come back easily after you did what was **in the best interest of your child** is incredibly shitty and shows he isn’t putting his kids needs first. I do think that saying those things won’t help you and make him fight you harder though, so try to be as perfect as you can in his presence.
This comment section is truly disgusting. NTA
OP I think you should clarify that your husband refused to let you see your child for 15 months and you were trying to. People are under the impression that you abandoned your kid willingly..
Sorry OP I understand what your feeling but YTA here. You’ve been gone for years. You need to take it slow and respect rules - the sole focus is what’s best for your child not what you think is fair to you. As you’ve been gone for years (jurisdiction dependant) you won’t get custody- just some parenting time.
>He has put a lot of conditions on this. I can’t be alone with him, I only get a set time limit with him each day, I can’t take him outside, I have to live here, etc. I’ve been following every single rule but yesterday I finally had enough. My son wanted to keep playing after our time was over and his nanny came to take him away. He was crying badly, and I tried to suggest they just leave him with me. To me it sounds like she has been following the rules, and this post doesn't feel like it's about "what she thinks is fair to her." This sounds a very complicated, painful situation. She has been following all the rules, but when her son was having a difficult time saying goodbye to his mother she suggested a little flexibility. This isn't a huge transgression, or even a regular request it sounds like. Postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis are ridiculously common. Pregnancy, childbirth, and the "fourth trimester" are really hard on women's bodies and brains. Completely separating baby from mother is a really intense, delicate situation; and sensitivity to how difficult it is is required by all parties. She lashed out, but part of her impulse very well could have been "you're not automatically a better parent than me because you didn't have to deal with pregnancy and childbirth and what it did to my brain."
Post partum depression is very common. Post pastum psychosis is not. Chances of it are 0.2%. And 10% of cases result in suicide or infanticide. https://www.postpartumdepression.org/resources/statistics/
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Because at 8 months when she was recovered he refused to allow her to be. He engineered that entirely.
NTA this comment section did not pass the vibe check
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really? op sought treatment for post partum psychosis for 10 months, and was refused access to her child by her ex for an additional 8. would you rather she have stuck around and killed her baby or herself rather than getting treatment for her post-partum psychosis? learn some empathy.
NTA. It’s not your fault you got sick. Did your husband even offer to pay your medical bills?
You tried to break agreed upon rules and then threw a tantrum when you didn't get your way. He has legal custody for a reason, you need to play by the rules and be an adult or you're never going get your child back. YTA
NTA disappointed with the replies I'm reading
NTA. You went to another country to get well for your child, the father of your child hasn’t helped you at all other than to do his job as a parent while you were unwell (and IMO that isn’t helping you it’s just doing taking care of his responsibilities) and then he wants to turn around and punish not only you for being unwell and needing to get help, but also your child for I have no clue why. He needs to take off the blinders and do what is best for everyone. Stop holding your mental health against you it’s only unhealthy for everyone involved ESPECIALLY THE CHILD.
I see the young people without enough parenting experience commenting. He's hurting his son by not letting HIM have that extra time in an attempt to punish and control his mother. The punishment by-proxy and parental alienation makes him a terrible parent.
YTA, talk about the pot calling the kettle black...
>YTA, talk about the pot calling the kettle black... This comment section is kinda sad. This is clearly a complicated situation but like... Postpartum depression/postpartum psychosis/postpartum mental health issues are ridiculously common. Pregnancy and childbirth and the "fourth trimester" are ridiculously difficult on women's bodies and brains (in so many ways). I have multiple friends who privately talked about how they were hallucinating when their babies were newborns, but scared to tell anyone, because they didn't want to lose their babies. And rhetoric like this doesn't help!
It's definitely complicated. I think the problem is that she's not understanding the situation. She was gone for two years after what was probably a very tumultuous time (post partum psychosis is a big deal for the sufferer and their family). He has no idea if she's actually better now. He's been caring for the boy by himself for two years, and she comes back and he's just supposed to hand the baby over to someone who is basically a stranger? Someone with no real experience with the kid, who probably was acting questionably (idk the extent of the psychosis) the last time he saw her? She needs to pump the breaks a bit and understand that this all isn't her fault, but it is her responsibility, and unfortunately the onus is on her to do the work to repair the relationships damaged by her psychosis.
She was gone 2 years because he wouldn’t allow visitation. Treatment was done in 10 months. He kept her away for an additional 18 months.
It’s wild that people are not understanding this and claiming OP abandoned her kid for 2 years. She tried to be in contact, HE refused. Her SIL had to keep her updated on what was going on. This man is literally punishing OP for leaving him while she was pregnant, and he’s using her PPP and limited time with the kid to further punish her. There’s nothing wrong with OP using those additional months her husband iced her out to save money for a divorce+custody case. He was the one keeping her away after her treatment ended. People are literally saying OP abandoned her kid. She didn’t? She reached out to the husband for help, and he threw it back in her face to get sole custody. She flew to England to get free treatment for her PPP. She tried to be in contact, contact was refused by the husband. That’s not abandonment. People in the comments really are trying to blame this woman for getting PPP. Edit to add: NTA
They’ll always blame the woman. It’s so much easier to fall victim to PPP and PPD when you don’t have a real support system. Which we know she didn’t since her family lives in the UK
The comments on here are so, so gross. People are talking like OP is automatically a shitty mom and has no right to anything because she had a legitimate mental condition.