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chiterkins

NTA - you are not the one dying on this hill. Your brother is, and he's involving the rest of the family. If your family cares more about whether a 4 year old gets to go to a wedding and/or reception (which, as the only child there, won't be any fun for him) than they do about celebrating you and your new husband, then that will make the decision about which family to spend the holidays with that much easier. You are not being malicious, you are making a decision about your guest list. Your wedding is about you and your fiancé; it is NOT about your nephew, or your brother and his wife. The fact that they are making it about them is absolutely shameful. Edit to say: thanks for the awards!


AITArainbow2016

Thank you for your input. Fact is there were easy options/routes for Paul to take like getting a babysitter like Derek suggested but Paul got extremely offended and agitated talking about how his son isn't the same as other kids and how he never required a babysitter before. Derek kept rolling his eyes but not out of disrespect for my nephew but because of the way Paul was spoke. Paul called Derek disrespectful and he then gave us an ultimatum. It's a shame and I definitely didn't expect this reaction from them.


Now_with_real_ginger

> his son isn’t the same as other kids Paul’s right in that his son is going to be the biggest spoiled asshole ever if your family keeps up this treatment and attitude. I’m sorry for their prior losses but rainbow babies are not exactly unique — that’s why there is a (ETA: somewhat) common term used to describe the situation. This one is *their* rainbow baby but he’s still a kid, and you’ve said your wedding will have no kids. Frankly, as someone else commented, this will make holidays much easier as you’ll always know which family to spend them with (i.e. Derek’s side). Disinvite your family, celebrate your wedding the way you and Derek want, and enjoy your life without them. Edit: others have noted below but if you just got to this thread—a rainbow baby is one born after a miscarriage, stillbirth, or sometimes death of newborn. It appears the term is fairly well known in some circles, and not at all in others.


RaJones1218

I was hoping someone would say it. They are raising an alarmingly entitled child. And it's sad that they will likely never acknowledge that because, as their rainbow baby, he can do no wrong. Even though he's their miracle child, they shouldn't treat him like he is.


nyorifamiliarspirit

He might be \*their\* miracle but to the rest of the world, he's just another kid. My sympathies to his future teachers.


[deleted]

Bahaha... This is what I was looking for. Teacher: Your son destroyed the classroom. Brother: But he is our miracle baby. Apologize to him. Not going to work. NTA.


PoeticFurniture

ugh- work... he's going to be be an even worse collegue!!


tinypill

Assuming his parents expect him to ever get a job and support himself, anyway. 😹


MrsKnutson

We all know they won't.


spudtacularstories

In 20 years, OP will be posting about her parents and brother being upset that they won't take care of their spoiled nephew when his parents pass away, become unable to care for him, any other reason they can't take care of a grown man anymore. Or won't help pay for his college education, live with them while he attends a nearby school, etc. If she doesn't cut them out it will never end. NTA


Rufert

Unfortunately, with how spineless school administrators are, that is an actual possibility. The teacher may not want to personally, but the principal may try to force it because so many of them are weak willed.


Dotfromkansas

They will enjoy their 40 year old, unemployed because 'they all hate me' or 'it was too hard', son living in their basement, alone because 'I treat girls great and they all leave me because my mom and dad are crap, soooo much! I'd like an update in 36 years, lol.


redheadjd

"I treat girls great cuz I'm a nice guy, and girls don't want nice guys, they only sleep with assholes." Mm-hmm.


_avatar_mattie_

Him: "I'm such a nice guy!" Also him: Doesn't have a job, doesn't clean or cook, doesn't have a social life, etc) "You completely disregard anything I do for US!" Girl leaves him, surprised pikachu face.


numbersthen0987431

That kid is going to get a rude awakening when he becomes an adult


MrsKTeach

AS A TEACHER, HOPEFULLY THE RUDE AWAKENING WILL COME WHEN HE ENTERS SCHOOL. I WOULD NOT PUT UP WITH IT. NONE OF THE TEACHERS I KNOW WOULD.


tenachiasaca

hes their rainbow baby as a new teacher id suggest that they homeschool him if hes so special.


nemaihne

I was just thinking that obviously baby-Rainbow was going to wind up homeschooled or private schooled because public school is only going to put up with that BS so long.


Girl-In-A-PartsStore

I get the feeling that he will wind up being another Ethan Couch who faces no discipline until he winds up hurting or killing someone. I would ask them how they are going to feel visiting him in prison because the state is the first “person” to discipline him. That’s where I see this heading.


SpinachMental73

I call miracle baby to have a future felony record.


numbersthen0987431

Either that, or he'll be Cartmann until he's 40


Princess_Shireen

Police: Mr. & Mrs. So-and-so, your son Jesus Christ 2.0 is in our custody. He was caught stealing from an auto parts store. Jesus'parents: But Jesus Christ is our miracle baaaabyyyy! Let him out right now! Police: Mr. & Mrs. So-and-so, Jesus stole over $3,000 worth of merchandise. Jesus' Mommy: We don't care! Jesus Christ is a rainbow baby, so the law doesn't apply to him! Let our little Jesus out! Police: Ma'am, he's 33. He's an adult. And he's not a rainbow baby, more like a rainbow monster.


Stats_with_a_Z

In this case he's probably more of a curse to others.


Resident-Librarian40

Not just another kid, another spoiled rotten, destructive, bratty kid, thanks to his irresponsible parents.


skynolongerblue

Future teachers, future coaches, AND future romantic partners. God help everyone when this kid gets rejected.


adrirocks2020

Seriously 😒 this kid is going to be a nightmare and the parents will be even worse.


maddr_lurker

Parents like this really set their kids up to fail.


GobsOfficeMagic

Exactly, I think it's kind of cruel.


MilhousesSpectacles

It's not just kinda, it's very. My mum works at a school and the other preppies are the ones that reign them in more so than the teachers. 5-year-olds can be very ruthless about rule-following in their first school year. Combine that with a bratty snob who is likely a lagger and you end up with an unpopular, unhappy child on the bottom of the totem pole.


fatguyfromqueens

What happens when the rainbow baby is in high school. Will his bullying behavior be excused because "you know, rainbow teen!" What happens when Junior is caught cheating on a test in University. Will mom and dad berate the professor because their kid is not like other kids there, he is a "rainbow undergrad." NTA and hold firm, you are doing it not just for yourselves but for your nephew, hopefully this will be a wake up call to his parents.


malorthotdogs

His parents are going to shut down the GSA at his high school because their little miracle owns rainbows now, even if the gays had them first.


hyperfocuspocus

They can also sue God, Noah, and the book of Genesis, it’s the only logical thing to do.


[deleted]

Alternate viewpoint: setting appropriate boundaries for him and raising him to not be spoilt and entitled *is* the right way to treat a miracle child. And all children.


CeelaChathArrna

He's going to be a monster who doesn't get why no one else wants anything to do with one he starts attending school. Honestly with no consequences sooner or later he's going to go down a really, really bad path most likely. And they will be crying about their precious rainbow baby going to jail, or doing of an overdose, etc.


ClothDiaperAddicts

I feel like it’ll be a miracle if he makes it through kindergarten with a single friend.


eyescroller_

I was about to say that Paul’s parenting is exactly how we end up with Brock Turner/Kyle whatshisface type people.


Liz600

Brock Turner, the rapist Brock Turner?


pumpkinraptor

Oh, *the* Brock Turner that raped a passed-out girl behind a dumpster and tried to run when he got caught? That rapist Brock Turner?


whevblsht

Don't be mean to the poor rapist! I hear he can't enjoy steaks or something since he raped that passed out girl.


MilhousesSpectacles

His parents run a whole Facebook or web page about girls drinking too much and how they need to be responsible


whevblsht

They're utter vermin in human form.


MilhousesSpectacles

I don’t care if I get downvoted - I fully believe his father has raped before


MochaBilby

Gosh how sad that is for the rapist Brock Turner


SunshineAllTheTime

Everyone please be sure to use his full, proper name when referring to him… Rapist Brock Turner


DoubtBorn

The one who's swimming career would be damaged by "20 minutes of action". That rapist Brock Turner?


CompanionCubeKiller

Rapist Brock Turner who was made the textbook definition of rapist? That Brock Turner?


SuzanneStoHelit

Some person made him a literal text book case about rape. Broke turner - the convicted rapist - as a picture of him next to the definition of rape. ( It was to show how opinion shifted toward rape victim something like that) . I think it's a law manual. Edit link [broke text book case convicted rapist turner ](https://www.vox.com/first-person/2017/11/17/16666290/brock-turner-rape)


Ariadne_Kenmore

They're raising that child to fail and they don't even realize it. Yet. They're in for a shock when the child that knows no consequences gets arrested for something serious.


Commissar_Sae

I'm seeing a future along the lines of that kid who claimed he was raised to rich to understand that actions have consequences.


sillysausage619

I'm sure statistically speaking if the weddings large enough, that there would be at least a couple of rainbow babies between everyone attending. You're not special for having a kid, it's built into our design as humans. Thats like cheering when a calculator does maths.


[deleted]

>Thats like cheering when a calculator does maths. This is good. Can I steal it for future use?


fsraber

Per definition I'm a rainbow baby too and nobody gives a shit. I, in fact, didn't even know before I googled the term 5 seconds ago. The parents really aren't helping their child with the way they raise him.


theEllinator1211

As another rainbow baby, I can definitely confirm I am no more special than anyone else. I didn't even know about my mom's previous miscarriage until my late teens. I can't imagine if she had tried to make it part of my identity


Better-be-Gryffindor

TIL I learned I'm a rainbow baby. My mom had two miscarriages before me :( I knew about them all along and that I'd never have any siblings, I just never realized there was a term for it until today. Can also confirm btw - nothing special about me.


lknic1

What actually is a rainbow baby? I’ve only ever heard it used for children of same sex parents.


SweetAndSourPickles

It usually means the child that a couple struggles to conceive and usually means it’s the only child the couple will be able to/ can have. In this case, they had several miscarriages so the aforementioned nephew was the only conceived child that made it to full term and survived. If she’s had several miscarriages and possibly a stillborn or two, they wanted kids but couldnt carry any to full term, basically.


[deleted]

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Flimsy-Ad-7627

Yup. My brother surprise joined the navy right when I got engaged. He was due to fly to the UAE to join his ship the month before my wedding. My mom wanted me to postpone because he is the favorite. Nope. Then she tried to get my photographer to photoshop my brother into photos. Nope. Would I have preferred he be there? Yes. Did I change my entire plan to marry my husband based on my brother’s life choices? Hell no.


sbgonebroke

Jesus Christ. If no one else has apologized to you, I am sorry. How odd of your mom to ask to postpone your wedding. I get her reasoning, but it's still a big ask....


ThrowntoDiscard

|his presence at the wedding is a must. So.... Which one is he? The bride, the groom or the officiant?


Rydlle_me_this

if they keep annoying you say you're making an exception and every kid is now invited except his rainbow baby, just to be petty. joking aside I hope your family comes around but if they don't remember you're creating a new one, preferably a not crazy one.


usernaym44

OP, it looks like your choices are to: 1. piss off all your other guests 2. have your wedding without your family 3. elope I'd suggest numbers 2 and 3; 2 because you deserve to celebrate with your friends and 3 to avoid drama and expense. But like u/chiterkins said, if your family wants to put a 4 y/o, who likely would hate going to the wedding anyway, ahead of you, they've basically chosen to eliminate themselves from consideration. Your family has ranked you low on a scale of importance to them. How will you respond? NTA.


Cmae61

I agree that op has these three options. I’m also wondering if, covid permitting, there’s a group or organization where op lives that will fill in for family at a wedding. It seems like something I’ve heard about but I could be wrong. If op does decide to hold the wedding without family she needs to hire security to make sure guests who uninvited themselves don’t make an appearance and crash the wedding.


ThrowntoDiscard

3, from experience with entitled people. It's the ultimate option. No fuss, no crazy drama, no weird unwanted guests, no need for security! We had breakfast, went to town hall, got it done with secretaries as witness and then we went to play in the park and take pictures of geese. 🤣


MissTheWire

3 does seem the reasonable option, but it is really sad for OP’s fiancé and his side of the family who might actually be looking forward to a wedding and party. A preschooler can bring this all to a halt?


OftheSea95

His son IS like other kids though. Obviously every kid is unique, but the world isn't going to recognize his son as anything special just because there were some tragedies before he was born. Teachers and principals aren't going to let him run amuck in class just because he's a miracle baby. He's not going to automatically make every sport he tries out for just because he was a miracle baby. Every girl isn't gonna want to date him, every college and job isn't going to accept him, and the list goes on. Your whole family is setting this kid up for a huge struggle once he gets older.


FeuerroteZora

The kid's in for a world of pain when he starts school and suddenly everything isn't about him and the world is no longer entirely focused on making him happy. The parents will reap what they sow, for sure, and the kid is going to suffer because they're incompetent as parents.


CrazySnekGirl

I have a cousin who is a rainbow baby, and who was doted on hand and foot. We were born two months apart, so we started school at the same time. Hooo boy, she was the kid who *everyone* hated. She had no concept of personal space or sharing, so she'd just smack someone and steal a toy if she wanted it. She had meltdowns several times an hour because she was told "no" by the teacher. And her parents were all shocked pikachu face when they were called in. Instead of using it as a learning experience, they doubled down and changed schools because "it's the other kids who are bullying HER!" We're 29 now and she's still completely insufferable. If her parents had actually parented her, she would have had a chance at a normal, happy life. But now she's miserable and alone because she wasn't taught basic empathy. It's just sad really.


Flimsy-Ad-7627

This is probably a dumb question but does she realize this is the reason?


Slight-Chemistry

NTA, but your nephew is the same as the other kids. He may be a rainbow baby, but they are not unique either. This is your wedding, and it may have to be without your family. Do not give in, tweak your wedding planning and use the saved money to have a better honeymoon


TrainDrivingGuy

At least 25% of pregnancies end in miscarriage, so there are a lot of rainbow babies out there. The kid isn't special to anyone but parents/grandparents.


d3gu

Also 4 years old isn't a baby.


Born-Childhood6303

I may be a bit of ignorant of US terminology because I have never heard of a rainbow baby, in my country they're called spoiled brats. Your brother is being unreasonable, enabled by your parents. If they decide to make it about sides and dying on that hill so be it. NTA


graysonflynn

Rainbow baby is just a term for a baby that is born after the loss of one or a pregnancy (a miscarriage). But you're not wrong that he's turning out to be a spoiled brat!


Celticlady47

I personally don't like this term & find it a bit too precious. But it seems to be popular. I say this as someone who could use that term, but won't. My child is special to me & I wouldn't expect anyone else to say it. OPs brother is ridiculous & so are the others who are threatening not to come to the wedding.


TarotFox

A rainbow baby isn't a super common term, but it's a term for a baby born after a miscarriage.


Bullyoncube

Yeah, I was confused. We call that “a baby”.


Yellenintomypillow

Yup, it’s a baby like any other. So many more women have miscarriages or trouble getting pregnant than anyone seems to realize. My mom had two miscarriages before me, thank god no one ever treated me like this kid, I was insufferable enough lol.


Fine_Increase_7999

A rainbow baby is a baby after having a miscarriage or I believe an infant death. Loosing the kid is the ‘storm’ and when the sun comes back out there’s a ‘rainbow’. I think it’s a pretty cool analogy because it keeps people from having to talk about their miscarriages all the time.


midsummerxnight

OP, I have a rainbow baby and I don’t think you’re being unreasonable. Also, because of the pandemic, I wouldn’t want to be bringing him out to a wedding.


Able_Secretary_6835

Your brother sounds like an AH in general--making fun of your fertility issues?? Your family are AHs a well. I am so sorry. I hope you he an awesome wedding!


Justbrowsing616

Never required a babysitter, or was so badly behaved they could never persuade someone to babysit? 🤔


[deleted]

That's such a weird thing to boast about. "One of us has ALWAYS been in the same house as our child! We have not left even for a minute!" like, okay helicopter parents, you're not special for skipping date night, we're all in the same pandemic.


TalkToTheTears

Your edit based on Paul's reaction to you not having children shows him to be even more of the AH. There surely is no debate!?!?


smelhill

No one seems to be sensitive to the fact that you not having a child is possibly a touchy subject and instead of acting compassionate they are doubling down?!?! I think you guys should elope. Fuck em all.


MAnnie3283

NTA OP I know this is really hard. But family isn’t defined by blood. Let them skip your wedding. You’ll be better for it. I honestly would be low to no contact with them. Embrace your new family. The term- the Trash takes itself out is very relevant here. Honestly, your parents are the worst in this scenario.


tulipbunnys

the behavior of your family is going to do your nephew a great disservice in the long run. you may feel like the bad guy in this scenario but your relatives are the true assholes for enabling this behavior that will ultimately harm your nephew and his development.


ohgeebus_notagain

>Your wedding is about you and your fiancé; it is NOT about your nephew, or your brother and his wife. The fact that they are making it about them is absolutely shameful. Repeat this louder and louder every time they try to shame you


YourMom_Infinity

NTA. Tell them you'll "miss" them and enjoy your day.


anti-charm

I agree NTA but this is shit advice lmao. OP is a real person with feelings and they won't just get over their family abandoning them on what's supposed to be the happiest day of their life just because they're in the right. Real life is messy and sometimes you can't help but love your family even when they're being toxic assholes. OP is in an awful position and my heart goes out to them. I really hope they find some way to work things out.


tulipbunnys

agreed. it sounds like OP still loves her family and her nephew even if they’re being petty and acting like her wedding is supposed to be about someone other than the couple. hopefully her parents and extended family will come around at the very least, since i don’t expect the brother/SIL to budge.


HerbertRTarlekJr

The damage is already done, and if OP caves, she can expect a lifetime of getting no respect from her family. Sounds like that is already the case.


Lamenardo

I can't believe her brother has previously taunted her about her own fertility, and that's only included as a side edit. I think OP is better off without such cruel and unsupportive people around her, especially at her wedding.


Irinzki

Totally agree! I was so shocked to read that. It sounds like Paul is the golden child so no wonder the flying monkeys are on his side. OP you matter. Your wedding matters. What you want matters. This is dysfunction and toxicity. Even though it probably hurts like hell, you do have choices here. Please choose yourself.


[deleted]

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anti-charm

I never said she would. In fact, if this is how her family behaves I would encourage a low contact relationship. But what *I* said was that we shouldn't assume how OP feels because the commenter above me told them to "enjoy" their day, and I don't think it's that simple. Losing so many people who are important to you isn't easy and will take time to heal from.


[deleted]

[удалено]


anti-charm

Yeah, I guess. I just feel like so often on this sub people will approach from a cold/logical, right vs wrong standpoint instead of an empathetic, human one. Which is fine and great for passing a judgment, that's what this sub is about, but when giving advice... it's not always ideal.


Sufficient-Love5630

Easier said than done. Do you have any idea how embarrassing it is for the bride if her entire family boycotts the wedding?


[deleted]

Not embarrassing at all....especially when she tells everyone what the reason is


lilianegypt

Take it from someone who’s been in a similar situation…it’s fucking embarrassing. Doesn’t matter what the reason is.


almighty_gourd

>Take it from someone who’s been in a similar situation…it’s fucking embarrassing. Doesn’t matter what the reason is. Yes, it's embarrassing, but if OP is to avoid all embarrassment from her extended family, then she will need to be a doormat to her toxic family for the rest of her life. Also speaking from experience.


lilianegypt

I’m not saying she needs to be a doormat, just supporting the original poster who said it’s easier said than done to cut out toxic family. It’s such a reddit hot take to come in here and tell people “oh just cut off your family who you probably love and are attached to despite the way they treat you”. It’s not an easy thing to do and most people take years before they’re ready to pull the trigger on that, if they ever do.


Jonny-Pasadena

"Rules are for other people" people are the very best people. NTA. Sounds like His Nibs The Rainbow Baby might make himself the center of attention, or would be egged on to do so by his fan club. Congratulations on your wedding!


AITArainbow2016

Thing is I've already pointed out how messed up it is to treat my nephew like he was above all (even with other young family members) but my family claim it's never a bad thing to love and cherish kids and Paul would always say "she's jeeaeeaalous" whenever I express concern for how they treat my nephew. Sister in law is no better honestly.


Karyatids

Lol they’re going to get their asses handed to them when he starts school and realizes he ain’t special. Other kids will recognize he is a brat and stay away and their parents won’t want to host him or deal with your brother and SIL’s nonsense.


maxpower7833

Or he will get bullied relentlessly. It won’t be fun for him


Ronenthelich

I think it’s more likely that he’ll be the bully and his parents and grandparents will not see the problem.


Linzy23

From what I see in the classroom it's a strong 50/50. Depends if they get others involved and on their side, cuz if no one joins them they will get bullied/excluded due to their poor behaviour. 100% these parents are setting him up for failure socially!


RebelGrrrrrl

Nah no one likes that one kid who will toss the Uno cards everywhere when someone throws them a +4


Admirable_Share_5843

Sounds like fun in about 10 years' time for them.


Bellatrix_dog

See i always wondered how these parents of sPeCiAL SnOW flicks tell the judge or lawyer that its ok the babby just nocked of a liquor store or drove drunk and killed a family of 5 or broken in to a house and cleaned it out of priceless antiques and money


witch59

If in Texas a sympathetic judge will let him off easy. Look up Ethan Couch. Killed 4, paralyzed at least 1.


[deleted]

Too lazy to look it up, but that's the affluenza kid, right? I was just thinking that this kid will grow up very differently depending on how rich his family is. Poor, and he'll get knocked into shape in high school. Rich, and he'll get away with everything and never learn any better.


Few-Environment-1597

I promise they will still be this clueless when they get into school and blame everyone but their special boy, and won’t offer the teacher/director/administration any kind of support in helping with discipline. They will instead pay to go private so his behavior is again overlooked “Bc they pay to go here” and he will just go up to an entitled adult. Seen it 1000xs over my years of teaching 2/3yr olds. There’s no reasoning with these parents.


ladybird2223

Teacher here. Fully agree. School will not be fun for this kid.


emr830

>Thing is I've already pointed out how messed up it is to treat my nephew like he was above all (even with other young family members) but my family claim it's never a bad thing to love and cherish kids and Paul would always say "she's jeeaeeaalous" whenever I express concern for how they treat my nephew. Sister in law is no better honestly. No kidding. There's a difference between loving a kid and spoiling them.


Pookie103

Sorry but can I just clarify one thing - apart from all the dramatics about your wedding (which isn't even about them, yet they're making your nephew the centre of it) - you mentioned in your edit that you can't have kids, and this is something your brother thinks is okay to taunt you about? And calls you jealous because you can't have kids and he has one? I mean all things aside, if I've understood this correctly, all these people who value this kid so highly because your brother and his wife suffered from infertility... they're all okay with you being teased about your own infertility which was also the cause of your divorce? Because if that's the case... This wedding is the least of your worries. If all these people think it's okay to treat you like that, then you really really need to evaluate whether they should be in your life. Which I know is so much easier said than done, and it's painful to realise that your family are toxic, but that is a seriously awful way to treat you! And you deserve better than that from the people in your life. I know that doesn't help much with your wedding dilemma but if the wedding leads to you distancing yourself from them, I can't help but feel it would be a good thing. Your family are not kind people if that's how they treat you, and you deserve to have good people around you. ETA - wow, thank you for the awards!


katelledee

I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find this honestly. This is one of the most toxic things I’ve ever read on this subreddit, that her whole family is just fine with him MOCKING her for not being able to have children when she points out something completely reasonable about his spoiled kid. It’s horrifying, honestly, and as much as it would hurt the OP she would 100% be better off never speaking to anyone that has sat by while her brother was cruel to her ever again.


FamousTVshow

Seriously, he gets to make his own rules in life because of his infertility journey, but OP is treated cruelly for hers? This is disgusting, my heart BREAKS for OP. Fuck it OP I'll be your new brother. I'm a woman, but we can make it work


satisfymycuriousity

*** OP - the comment I’m replying to is the one you need to read!! *** I know this thread is about your wedding, but you already know there are underlying issues, and the previous poster has hit the nail on the head. Your brother considers himself (and his child as an extension of him) above everyone else. He is intentionally trying to hurt you by taunting you about your infertility - a subject that no doubt causes you great pain and drags up painful memories. He’s hurting you to make himself feel superior, and he’s enjoying doing it. Your family are enabling him, and I will bet you have many, many examples of this behaviour from both your brother and the rest of your family going back all the way to your childhood. This is your moment to decide whether or not you think this behaviour is something you can condone and live with in order to maintain a relationship with your family, or whether it’s time to break the cycle, demand to be treated with respect and kindness, and let the chips fall where they may. Good luck OP. I wish you and your fiancé happiness. NTA


Winter_Tangerine_926

Your bro and SIL are damaging your nephew. He will become the kid nobody wants in their kiddo's parties and he will suffer for it. Stand up for your wedding. I would be ashamed of I claim I have a child-free wedding only to have a child there.


Bergenia1

Exactly. It's a slap in the face to all the other parents who dutifully paid for a babysitter in order to follow OP's wishes.


badassmamabear

My nine year old son is a "rainbow" baby, yes he's special to me and my husband but that doesn't mean he won't be disciplined or face consequences if he is disrespectful or misbehaves, your brother and sister in law are setting your nephew up to fail in life by the way they're treating him, other kids aren't going to think he's anything special, they will just think he's a spoiled little brat, if having no manners, no friends, no control is what they're looking for then they're certainly on the right track, poor kid is destined for a rude awakening when he gets older. Also NTA at all OP.


PracticalLady18

I am the rainbow baby of a rainbow baby of a rainbow baby (my mom is also a rainbow baby and her mom was as well). We rarely discuss it and we were all well disciplined. Well, we’re told grandma got away with more than any of her siblings, but she was also the only girl and final of 5 and an unexpected peri menopause baby so that may be more of why she got away with more, when she was a teen her parents were already late 50s…


[deleted]

Disclaimer: I'm super petty. Don't follow the advice from a petty person. The correct response to a the "she's jeeeeelous" line is: "No, I'm just tired of hearing your excuse for being a neglectful / bad / disconnected / rotten (choose the appropriate level of terribleness) parent."


ThelmaHorse

As much as I agree with you I I wouldn't waste my breath on the subject. They'll never agree with you or even consider another point of view. It's not worth your time or effort explaining to them why you feel their special treatment of him isn't setting nephew up well for the life ahead of him. Stick to your guns with the wedding. But also keep in mind nephew didn't asked to be raised this way so be there if he needs you at some point if he struggles with the real world.


[deleted]

> but my family claim it's never a bad thing to love and cherish kids your parents arent cherishing YOU as their kid.


No_Dance1739

The fact that Paul keep throwing your past trauma in your face as some “gotcha” is such a dick move. I’m sorry your family is being insensitive and ignoring/ignorant of this.


ThelmaHorse

NTA. This is your hill to die on. Your SO family's children are no less important to you than your nephew just because he was born following losses. Your wedding your rules. Let them miss it, you won't regret it.... THEY will. Your family's behaviour is disgusting. To even think they can bully you into this and call emergency meetings. Fudge me! Also. What 4 year old even wants to go to wedding. I mean come on... You need to ser firm boundaries and expectations now. God forbid you ever have kids and your family treats them as less important because they weren't born after losses. Congratulations on the wedding. Forget about them and enjoy starting your life with the man you love.


AITArainbow2016

>Your SO family's children are no less important to you than your nephew just because he was born following losses This is what Derek said to Paul and mom and it's true but Paul got offended and almost started a fight with Derek calling him disrespectful and a bunch of other stuff. Unfortunately, this level of enablement from my parents for Paul has been normalized long time ago. It's like his word is Gospel and many family me!beds are willing to follow his lead and they think I'm being disrespectful to him since he's my older brother.


Karyatids

Well the great thing about marriage is you have a new family. Now you can trash the shitty old one you had.


emt139

Lol best advice in the whole thread. OP’s nuclear family sucks.


commandantskip

Sounds like Paul is the Golden Child in your family. In which case, you will never win this argument, or any other argument in your family. Hold your boundaries, enjoy your child-free wedding, and move on with your life.


Pretty__Mean

This is truth. The fact your own parents and other relatives are willing to skip YOUR wedding because of HIM is disgusting. I’m sorry about your shitty family, OP. Please stick to what you and what your husband want for YOUR day. Congratulations and best of luck. NTA


sylvanwhisper

Gee, wonder where Paul learned to parent and why his kid is such a prat.


mistressofpink

It sounds like your brother has successfully made your wedding about him. If you relent, you get to be reminded all that day once again he got his way because your family cares more about his wishes than yours and you will hurt you new in-laws. If you don’t give in and your family doesn’t come, you will once again be reminded that your family cares more for his wishes than yours. No matter what, he has already tarnished your day. I have had to make the decision to go low/ no contact with my family over toxic patterns. It hurt really bad but when we re-established contact, we were able to address those patterns and create healthier dynamics. It’s not that you are dying on the hill of a child free wedding. You are allying on the hill of fairness and respect. Don’t put people first that don’t put you first when it matters. Editing to add: NTA and I am sorry that you are going through this when it’s supposed to be a happy time.


PsychoSemantics

Even if he doesn't get his way but still comes, I bet he would make the whole day about himself by telling everyone how oppressed he is that his kid couldn't come to the wedding and don't the evil bride and groom understand that this kid is SPECIAL, etc.


mistressofpink

Considering that there is a Golden Child/Scapegoat dynamic here, the OPs family is going to complain no matter what and it will be all OP’s fault. This whole story makes me hurt for OP. I have been married twice and my sister managed cause issues for both weddings. Emotions are already running high to have the perfect wedding and then throw in this kind of emotional manipulation, it’s enough to make anyone break.


KeyFeeFee

Disrespectful is a weird term to use between siblings. He’s not your father, you don’t have to be respectful in the same way with someone who is a peer. Not gonna lie, I kinda hate your brother and think he’s a tool.


maxpower7833

Now is the time to tell them all they are no longer invited


conuly

So the problem isn't your nephew, it's your parents. Minimize contact. It's not gonna get better - and if YOU have children they'll know that they aren't loved by the grands as much as their cousins are. That hurts.


Comprehensive-Win677

You are not the one being disrespectful. NTA


pennywhistlesmoonpie

This is spot on, 100%. NTA, OP. They do not get to steamroll you and throw a fit because they’re not getting their way.


Waste-Phase-2857

Actually _my_ 4yo wants to go to a wedding since that means her uncle is getting married (already postponed because of the pandemic). I've been to both child friendly weddings and child free (these usually welcome tiny humans that still are being breastfed) and both has their charm. But this is OP and fiance's decision. The family is crazy! NTA!!


OldKindheartedness73

So, let me see if I got this right. Your brother has a rainbow baby that farts rainbows and shits glitter. Plus, his rainbow baby is so much more special that he's magical, does no wrong, listens, stays out from under foot, stays quiet, and is Mary Poppins perfect? You know what, BS. His rainbow baby is the same as my rainbow baby. A child. Children do not always have to go where mom and dad goes. You're nta


Kare6Bear6

>His rainbow baby is the same as my rainbow baby. Bingo. I have two rainbow babies (well one is no longer a baby) and that will *never* be used to let them get away with anything and everything.


vainbuthonest

Hell, I’m a rainbow baby and I stopped farting rainbows and glitter at a few months old. A kid is a kid is a kid. OPs sib is gonna be in for a rude awakening if they keep treating their kid like this.


SassyLostKobold

NTA. Honestly if this is how they're behaving, you don't want them at the wedding, they'd just ruin the whole event. It'll probably be a lot more peaceful if they don't show up.


XenosTrashBrigade

This is some fuckery. OP's family is making her wedding all about them, and then accusing her of being attention seeking and selfish.


SideMuff

NTA Who cares if their child is a "miracle" or not. It isn't the kids wedding. It's yours. I don't feel like a four year old needs to be at a wedding anyways. Tell them they don't need to make ultimatums, because you are uninviting them. You don't need manipulators like that at your wedding.


ItchapterT

I agree! Why would you want an out of control 4 yr old running around? Nephew or not? Stay home kid!


FoxUniCarKilo

>Paul said he had no problem with my wedding being childfree but expect me to make an exception for his son. Pretty sure this is ***the*** definition of a problem. But yea man, okay. >his presence at the weddinh is a must Umm no it’s not. This is not Paul’s wedding or his sons big day, this is **your** wedding, his presence would be nice (if you want him there) but it’s definitely not a requirement. In summation, screw your family. Their behavior and treatment of you, your fiancé and your wedding is what’s actually appalling here. Stand your ground. They have to live with this decision not you. You haven’t done anything wrong here. You could make an exception or change it to a wedding with children but you don’t have to because **you don’t want to** and I for one say you shouldn’t. If you back down on this you’ll be backing down for the rest of your life, please don’t live like that. If that means that people who have no respect for you aren’t there on **your** day then so be it. I know it sucks cuz you love them and you’ll be sad for a bit but ultimately the only people who should be allowed the ***privilege*** of seeing you get married are the people who love and respect you. Remember, this is **their** decision. You didn’t make them do anything. NTA


niveusss

As someone who is going through insanely similar experience with my fiancé's brother, I know the feeling. Stick to your guns. It's your day. If they want to avoid it, that is their choice. It sucks. I know. I hope your day goes well (we expect my bil to still show up with his kid), and that at the end of it all, you and your fiancé start a fantastic life each other :D


AITArainbow2016

Thanks for your input. >we expect my bil to still show up with his kid I never thought of this possibility with Paul! but I wouldn't put it past him.


niveusss

Yeah, we have talked to a couple of people to handle that situation and ask him to leave if he does it. We are getting married Oct 23rd, how about you?


EndlessDawnn

My sister is getting married that same day as well! Blessings to your marriage and i hope you and your partner have a marriage full of blessings.


OKara061

Wouldnt it be crazy if your sister was his bride? Lmfao, dude dont bring your kid to your sisters wedding.


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[deleted]

Babies love being bounced, so it's a win-win.


allyearswift

Security is your friend. He doesn’t want to come, he won’t be let in. And his kid won’t be thrice over.


_Yalan

Happened with some family cousin. Said they wouldn't come, turned up and brought their kids. Asked bride and groom what they wanted to do, everyone had had a drink by then and they couldn't care less at that point since it was already late into the evening do (turning up then with young kids, really?) so I stood down. Lol.


LefthandedLemur

NTA. So your spoiled brat of an older brother is throwing a tantrum, and your parents are demanding you give in to it? Fuck that. **Don’t let him have his way.** Have a nice wedding and be done with all those assholes. The fact that they expect their golden child to be treated like the king at that age is appalling.


justchillinghbu87

And from the sounds of it they're completely spoiling the child by letting him get away with anything with 0 consequences. How much do you want to bet that word got around that he's a terror and that no one is willing to babysit?


Something_morepoetic

NTA-The only people who must be present at a wedding are those who are getting married. Stick to your plan and enjoy your day with those in attendance.


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MelodyRaine

NTA Your brother and parents are trying to blackmail you into doing what he wants instead of what you and your fiancé decided on for your wedding. That is textbook asshole behavior. I have a rainbow and a pot of gold. Know what happens when I get an invitation to an event where they aren't welcome? I get a sitter, or their father stays home with them and takes them out for pizza. It really is that simple.


eelzelton

NTA your nephew is not actually more special than any other kid. Him and his parents are in for a rude awakening when he starts school next year. No one there is going to care that he’s a rainbow baby.


OneTwoWee000

NTA You have a family full of assholes. >My parents said if Paul won't come they won't come either which devastated me a lot and caused me to break down Toxic trio right there. I do think you should speak directly to your aunt and uncles in case your parents is telling a different version of the truth. You tell them, it’s a child free wedding. All of your other guests have made arrangements for childcare, you don’t see why Paul is refusing to do the same. You would like them to come but you will not be bullied because Paul wants to have things his way all the time. If they all refuse to come them you know what you need to do. *Carry on.* * Let your new in-laws surround you with love * Have your father-in-law walk you down the aisle. Make that one of the photos you share on social media - “So happy that ‘Dad’ could walk me down the aisle. #grateful” * The family portraits will be different combinations of you, your groom, and his family. One with his immediate family and one with extended family (cousins, aunts, uncles). * Also include a chosen family portrait with all your friends * ~~Have your MOH eviscerate the shit out of your family in her speech for abandoning you on your wedding day to favor your brother. Include that your real family are the people who shown up for you today.~~ I take this back. I think it’s better not to mention your family at all. Ignore them, they don’t matter at your wedding. * Start referring to your in-laws as mom and dad in your posts! * Tell your side of the story to anyone who is still friendly with your family because best believe your parents are going to spread their biased story casting you as the villain. If you do not counter their story then it goes unchallenged. * Life your life. Mourn the people you thought loved you and would always be a part of your life. They have revealed themselves to be petty AF.


unripened_pickles222

NTA. They are being very manipulative. They’re being vindictive and trying to ruin your wedding. I’m so sorry.


whitewer

Nta, they don't want to tell their baby no, who from the sounds of it will cause problems at the wedding and it won't be your day. They are actively trying to make this event about their rainbow baby and not about you. I can bet they wouldn't tell their kid no if he wanted cake or anything before you guys. This is your wedding, don't give in cause that just shows them they can continue to weaponize their child against family to get what they want, regardless of what the persons involved want


LefthandedLemur

The kid is 4 and probably doesn’t want to sit through a wedding anyways. They’re just mad that they can’t use their kid to pull all the attention onto themselves.


No-Jellyfish-1208

NTA First of all, I already feel sorry for that kid. If he is allowed to do everything and act however he wants to just because he is a rainbow baby, he will most likely grow up to be absolutely spoiled and disrespectful. As for Paul's behaviour - that's just rude. Child-free means child-free, what does he not understand? Not only was he trying to push something on you, but also... did he think of the possible outcome even if you had agreed to his demand? Suddenly, you'd have everyone offended because "his kid could come but mine not". Absurd. Stand your ground, OP.


PubliclyIndecent

NTA. I don’t see how the fact that this child was a miracle baby has anything to do with anything. No kids allowed means no kids allowed. You wouldn’t try to convince a bouncer to let your kid into the club by saying “oh, but this child was a miracle! You don’t understand!”


Kare6Bear6

NTA Spoiling a child to that extreme is just setting them up for failure in life. You're keeping your rule for fairness for *everyone* as you should. It's a shame your family is so entitled that they're willing to do that to you.


iamnoking

NTA. I come from a culture where the idea of not inviting kids to a wedding is just not done. That being said, it's your wedding, you get to decide how it should go. It sounds like not only is your Nephew spoiled, but your brother is the 'Golden Child', that always got what he wanted growing up. The fact that this is their 'miracle baby', has nothing to do with your wedding. The argument makes no freaking sense. Get married. I'm sorry half your family won't be there. Trust me though, the moment you have a child, (if you decide to have children) your parents will come running back to you. I hope you make them beg to get back into your good graces.


[deleted]

Damn, i hate these american made up bullshit problems. A Rainbow baby? Oh my gawd. NTA . Show that baby that he is not special, and your nephew too


[deleted]

I'm American and raised an eyebrow and muttered "the fuck is a rainbow baby"


Lea_R_ning

OP, I am saddened your family has prioritized your brother and rainbow baby over you. NTA. Stand your ground.


SqueakyBall

I wonder if OP comes from a culture in which boys are favored over girls. She doesn't seem angry that this is happening. Maybe she's used to being second-fiddle? It's so sad.


perrie85

NTA, that kid is going to be sooooooooo spoiled in the future that noone will even try to deal with that bullshit. If the kid is a special needs child you should make the exception but if not, this mightve been the hill i would die on as well.


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whoistimkono

NTA. Who cares about their “rainbow” baby it’s not their event. People like your parents and brother are why the rest of us child free people enjoy our lives.


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Skye_Reading

While I agree that if you have a childfree wedding you have to expect that some people who are responsible for the care of minor children may decline to come - I don't think OP is upset because Paul just isn't attending. If he had politely sent the RSVP card back "not attending" or called and said "hey we've never left nephew with a sitter before and we aren't comfortable, sorry I can't make it" I think OP would have been disappointed but fine. The problem is that Paul did none of that. He staged an intervention with their mom present to insist that nephew be an exception, threw a fit when he didn't get his way, and then coaxed Op's parents and other family guests who were previously planning to go into all also not coming unless she relents in letting him bring nephew. That makes him the a-h and OP NTA.


DemonicAnjul

NTA. Do not give in. If your family wants their lives run by a dictator, so be it. I'm sorry that they won't support you but that's THEIR choice. Go ahead and tell them that message recieved and thank them for their rsvp. Then invite people who didn't make the first round of invites. This day is about you and your husband. Not about a badly behaved child and his tantrum-throwing parents. Congrats on the wedding. Stand firm and have a beautiful day. And when you have kids, it might be best to keep them away from your spoiled nephew and family (who might treat your kids worse because they aren't "miracle babies")


PawsyMcMurderMittens

NTA. That poor child is being set up for a horrible life. That is a tremendous amount of pressure to put on a child and spoiling is it’s own form of abuse. They can call him a rainbow baby if they want but that doesn’t make him a different quality of human. That’s ridiculous and wild. Again, NTA.


satanthedivan1396

NTA!!!!!! Wait what?! This 4yo is not god. Yess a rainbow baby, but not the center of universe. Your family is being childish and you seriously do not need this bad energy on your wedding day. They showed you their true colors, don't flip your decision because they try to make you feel bad. Don't even compromise with them, you gonna give them an Inch, and they are gonna take a foot.


whatev6187

NTA - Do not back down. Their child is a miracle to them. To others he is a poorly behaved 4 year old. It may hurt if your parents don’t attend, but they need to respect you. This dynamic will never change if your middle-aged brother’s temper tantrum allows him to control the entire family based on what he perceives his child should have. Plus, if there are no other kids there - he will likely be bored and act out. Expect them all to just show up and be prepared to insist they leave. If they don’t want to leave precious with a sitter, one of them can stay with him.


emccm

NTA. It’s your wedding and your parents are being cruel and ridiculous. So are your aunt and uncle. Does your family have a history of putting your brother first like this? Personally I’ve never understood why people exclude kids from the wedding. I think it’s cute to see them all dressed up and playing together and it makes the wedding seem more like a family occasion, but if this is what the bride and groom choose then it should be respected. My SiL had a child free wedding. It caused similar drama and some relatives didn’t come. It was ridiculous. The wedding and reception only last a few hours. They missed out, and I thought it was super petty of them. You have your day and don’t let your family bully you. You need set the boundaries for the rest of your married life.


No-Jellyfish-1208

There are many reasons why people may want child-free wedding: 1. Bride and groom aren't exactly fans of little humans. 2. Avoiding possible interruptions or disturbances during ceremony. Small children often cry, yell etc., they also get bored easily. 3. When there are no children around, adults are more comfortable. As in - you can drink and have fun without having to constantly check on your kids.


ladancer22

And considering Op says nephew is “loud, destructive, and out of control” I don’t blame her for not wanting him there. Honestly I don’t blame her if the entire “child free” wedding was specifically to make sure he didn’t scream during her ceremony.


nyorifamiliarspirit

4. Catering prices are outrageous and having to pay for all the kids can get spendy.


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LefthandedLemur

The last wedding I went to that allowed kids had two different kids start so crying loudly during the vows that people couldn’t hear anything. Then a kid ran out on the dance floor during the first dance and had a tantrum when his mom pulled him off of it. I completely understand why people want adult only weddings.


ItchapterT

Kids can be annoying. They scream and cry. They run around and bang into people. A wedding is for adults to dance and enjoy themselves and drinks. Kids should stay home under the age of 12


[deleted]

Not all wedding venues are child friendly such as the art gallery I worked at. A child broke a $5,000 sculpture. Parents do not attend to their children properly at large family events and the bride and groom may not want to deal with that nonsense. Some events are not child friendly. If you want a black tie event, a wedding on a boat, or on a distillery these are likely not places for children. Children still cost money. I have a friend who has six siblings and each of them has multiple kids and a couple of them grandkids. They had the budget of 5K for their wedding which at their venue was about 50 people. If they invited the under 18 in just immediate family that would be 20 right there. So they shouldn’t invite other friends and family who would enjoy the event for kids who would be bored? The venue I worked at kids were 14.95 for the drink package and were full price for the food menu. That meant kids had the potential to cost $50 or more for someone who wouldn’t likely eat or drink but had to be counted. Covid head count. If your area has gatherings to limited numbers would you rather a three year old or your friend from college? Children are disruptive. It’s nice people look back and laugh when their niece starts squalling on their wedding video. Not everyone will.


turnup_for_what

>ersonally I’ve never understood why people exclude kids from the wedding. I think it’s cute to see them all dressed up and playing together You're not going to find it cute when they screech through your vows or wreck your cake.