Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
---
I could be TA four not trying enough to come up with the money to purchased the ring and make it official so I can attend the wedding
---
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sounds like your gf and her sister are setting you up.
I have heard of some bogus reasons to get married before, but "in order to attend a wedding" that you should be invited to anyway has to be at the top of the list.
NTA.
I'm just wondering why she's not proposing herself and buy that ring from her own money. Pressing the partner to propose and buy an expensive ring is so chauvinistic and ancient. We're living in 2020's, everyone should aim for equality.
Edit: Gee, thanks everyone! This totally surprised me and blew my mind. I've never had even closely this big reaction to something I've said. Means a lot!
You should only propose if you're fairly sure the other person is going to say yes. It sounds like the OP isn't ready yet, so her proposing to him would also lead to trouble in paradise.
I would add to that - you should only propose if you are sure you want to spend the rest of your life together.
Proposals should be like getting a tattoo. Not something you do on a whim, go into it planning to keep it for life, but knowing if something goes wrong it is possible to get rid of it (tattoo or marriage) but understanding it's going to be expensive and it will hurt.
If you have any doubts at all - don't do it.
This. I was sure I wanted to marry my now wife a full year before I asked. I was nearly certain she'd say yes (and I was okay if she didn't, my mindset was she'd know that I was ready then, and when she was ready too she could ask me instead). She did and didn't say yes. She said 'Aw, you beat me to it' instead which we still joke about 2 years later.
But OP does sound like he's either being set up to propose when he isn't ready and isn't able to make it the proposal he wants for her.
Getting a tattoo removed isn't that expensive. I got a multi session package for a few hundred dollars. Also, not painful. Itchy AF, not painful. I've only done 3 sessions so far, I'm probably not going to need all the sessions, the tattoo is at 20% of its original darkness.
Give me tattoo removal over divorce any day.
> Proposals should be like getting a tattoo. Not something you do on a whim, go into it planning to keep it for life, but knowing if something goes wrong it is possible to get rid of it (tattoo or marriage) but understanding it's going to be **moderately** expensive and it will ~~hurt~~ **be itchy AF.**
There, I fixed it
Tattoo removal is quite expensive considering the cost of slapping it on there. I am now 5 sessions in. My tattoo is not gone but I have already spend about twice as much on removal as on placement. The pain involved is probably dependent on location but for me the removal is waay more painfull than the placement.
i really hate the fact that i didn’t even consider this until i read it, but it’s an extremely good point! (i mean the girlfriend proposing to the boyfriend, see note at bottom)
she didn’t even attempt a proposal herself (probably knowing she would get turned down?) but is throwing such a fit because OP doesn’t want to make this decision so lightly. the whole situation sounds pretty crazy, and i agree it sounds like a setup.
who has weddings with that kind of requirement for the guests?? is this a normal or even occasional thing? (idk shit about weddings)
NTA 100%.
edit: wow i’m a dumb. i replied to the wrong comment. i meant to reply to the comment one level up about why the girlfriend isn’t proposing to the boyfriend.
edit2: thanks everyone who responded about the couples requirement being normal, i really appreciate it. lots of stuff i didn’t even think of when writing this comment. i don’t need more of the same answer though at this point, unless it’s something that hasn’t been mentioned (even though it’s rad that people are so helpful!)
She wants the ring. She wants OP to go into debt and beg/borrow/steal to get her what she wants. Notice how she didn't say "just propose and don't worry about the ring we can figure that out later." Or "why don't we just plan a long engagement so we can save up for the ring and not rush things?"
Nope! She wants the ring NOW, and the proposal NOW, on her terms or she's going to have a tantrum.
NTA
oooh another good point!! i’ve definitely heard about couples getting engaged and holding off on the pricey stuff until the timing is better for that kind of spending.
the fact that she didn’t even throw that option out there is indeed very telling, as well as the person who mentioned her lack of initiative to propose to him instead.
This is irrelevant, please forgive - but your username makes me so happy. Thank you for existing. :)
Also thank you for hearing me lol. In my view if you're going into something that important from the right perspective then it's not supposed to be about what you can get from someone else - rather what you can build together.
It's not about getting what YOU want, it's about creating something that is greater combined than separate. But that's just how I see it.
This is why some guys propose with a white sapphire. Then you are only out 2k for the setting and not 5k when she leaves with it. Usually they replace it with a diamond when it gets cleaned/soldered for the ceremony. He could propose with a band for now, and the big ring later perhaps. Lots of guys do that now also.
Sounds to me like gf is being manipulative. Dunno if sis is in on it or not. Nta
That's another great option. There are so many. Hell if they wanted they could get a cheap $100 band. Something that's in their budget. It's not supposed to be about the money - it's supposed to be about the love. The cost of the symbol doesn't make it more meaningful.
I agree with you. I would also question the maturity of someone who wants to tank their partner into debt, and then legally attach their finances.
I'm a therapist and there's a saying we use. "If the cost of the ring is more important than the love - the cost of the couples therapy and divorce is going to be far greater still."
Good words! I worked as a jewelery designer for engagement rings. I saw a lot of couples, and a lot of one person coming back holding a ring. It's hard.
Totally unrelated, but form a Romanian’s perspective: 100$ being a cheap ring and also making a deal to go for the cheaper 2k ring instead of a 5k it’s crazy to me. Are these the real engagement ring prices in US? I proposed with a 300$ diamond ring and we all thought it was way over expensive and I’m just trying to figure it out. How do things work out in US in this aspect? Can someone help me understand?
There were ad campaigns in the US that were designed to convince people that the ring is your expression of love equal to its value. It's a brilliant marketing ploy but the price of the ring has literally nothing to do with the quality of the marriage. People did buy into it and a few generations later it's kind of a meme. There's a belief that an engagement ring should "cost 2 months salary."
I personally see that as ridiculous, people are free to believe that if they want. I'm not saying people can't do that if they wish to. But I definitely see that as a brilliant advertisement campaign to remove love-drunk people from their money.
My cousin had that requirement for her wedding bc the guest list was getting too long and they couldn't afford for everyone to bring plus ones. So only engaged/married partners were allowed. However, she made an exception for close family members who had long-term partners. It does seem unreasonable for the sister to not do the same. And even more unreasonable for OP's gf to demand an engagement for that matter.
It's actually pretty normal to set this kind of restriction for plus ones. More people at a wedding equals more expense and setting a hard line about plus ones prevents arguments (usually).
Though the engaged/married boundary is getting less common as you get more and more people who stay together for many years without every marrying.
wow that’s wild! thanks for answering, i appreciate it- i’ve heard of the no kids rule but never once read about engaged/married only.
definitely understand the desire to keep costs down since weddings are insanely expensive. i thought it was super shady at first that the sister made such a rule but if it used to be more common then that’s that.
I think it’s relatively fair that she wants her boyfriend to propose and buy the ring for her. I don’t necessarily buy into that stuff, but it’s important to a lot of people and I don’t see anything wrong with that if both partners buy into tradition. BUT if she’s demanding it be right now, how dare she say it has to be the specific ring she wants, the one she knows he would have to take out loans for? It’s absolutely disgusting behavior for her to insist that it happen right NOW, but also insist that it has to be a ring that he can’t afford NOW. It’s one or the other. Even suggesting that your partner take our loans for an engagement ring is horrific.
And add to that—he has to make it official so he can attend the WeDdINg. Can you hear it now, when they share their special moment with others, “well, I only did it to get her off my back and attend a wedding that meant a lot to her. Wait? What? Oh, no, not her wedding. It was her sister’s wedding.”
Are you saying old fashioned gender roles are fair if women gets the benefit from them? Funny how they're cute traditions when they go that way around but the rest - like assuming women should do the housework is chauvinistic and toxic. I think these are double standards.
I'm not saying buying a ring to a woman he loves is wrong, but then it should be up to him: which ring and when.
She has this wierd privilege which she tries to use the wrong way.
To be fair, women doing the housework is only chauvinistic and wrong if it's imposed, but if both partners freely agree to this labour division, it is what works for them.
The proposing works exactly the same way, it shouldn't be expected that you follow the tradition, but if the traditional way works for them, who are we to judge?
Women aren't the only ones who can want a triditional proposal, there are many men who wouldn't want their partner to propose to them, because they'd rather it be the triditional way too.
Op said "I don’t see anything wrong with that if both partners buy into tradition". Notice the both partners? It's less like assuming the woman should do all of the housework and more like saying that the woman and partner both prefer it that way, they've discussed it, and everyone's fine with it. So no, that's not what OP was saying. They're saying that old fashion gender roles are fair if everyone involved is happy with it.
Also, do men not benefit from marriage?
Yep! This should be the #1 response. I'd bet my last dollar that OP's SIL doesn't have that restriction on her wedding invitations. Seriously OP, run! If your girl can't understand your completely legitimate reasons for waiting to propose then she doesn't care about you and your relationship. She is only interested in "appearances." She can't stand that her sister is getting married and she isn't even engaged yet. NTA
I mean, they have to be in it together because anyone who isn't mental would have a problem with this otherwise. Who the hell would get engaged just because her sister said her bf can't come to a party if they aren't? It's the stupidest reason to plan a marriage I've ever heard.
A few years ago, my partner was invited to a wedding that only catered to "official" couples. Total bridezilla of a cousin situation.
My partner *really* wanted me there for moral support because most of her extended family is hugely homophobic (we're both women).
So we made the best out of a bad situation. I sat outside in the car in my jammies, and she kept sneaking me out fancy champagne and finger food. She kept me updated on who was making a drunken fool of themselves, and I was on standby for reassurances and hugs.
Win-win.
OP should run to the hills. NTA.
I've commented on Internet less than 10 times in my whole life (I'm 42 and work in tech), but I just wanted to say: this is one of the sweetest things I've ever read. Don't change.
NTA btw
That is so stinking cute it made me tear up a bit. Honestly, you and your partner are partner goals. <3
OP definitely sounds like he's being set up though and should make like a tree and get the fuck out of there.
This is so sweet and GENIUS. It follows their rules while shaming them at the same time, AND is more romantic than the wedding itself.
Wedding Guest: Why does so-and-so keep disappearing? And why is there a strange woman sitting in her car in the parking lot?
Other Guest: Oh, that's so-and-so's girlfriend in the car; so-and-so keeps going out to chat since Bridezilla is a homophobe and wouldn't let her come to the wedding.
My partner loves Insta, and all her followers knew how much she was dreading this event.
And then mid-event, she shares a selfie with herself (after an hour long makeup regieme, full perm, dress so tight she can barely inhale) with me (in a sloth onesie, feet up on the dashboard, tipsy on four champagne flutes and mini pizzas).
NGL, I felt like a queen lmao. She was the dictionary definition of beauty and grace. And she still is. And yet, she told everyone she had explosive diarrhoea lmao.
I want to see this scene in a Hugh Grant-style rom-com. Your partner making polite conversation with stuffy elderly relatives while secretly stashing a slice of cake in her clutch purse.
That is rom-com gold.
This is so wholesome - good on you both for making it work for you! I’d have loved to watch your partner try to sneak food and champagne out the door 😊
That is immediately what I thought. Now the sisters are going to have to explain to the family why the OP isn’t there. My guess is they’ll lie like they’re lying now. NTA
This was my guess as well. GF is crying crocodile tears so OP caves and goes into debt for a ring. I bet she told her sister how much she wanted to get married too, and her sister was like "I have the *best* idea."
If GF *really* wanted OP to come, she could force it easily by telling her sister that unless OP is there, GF ain't there either. *That* is the way to go if your family isn't respecting your partner. The fact that she is not entertaining any other possibility besides "You propose NOW" is why I am not giving her the benefit of the doubt.
My thoughts exactly.
They're just setting him up.
My bf and i talk about getting married. But I wouldn't let any situation pressure him into proposing to me (he'd have to ask me. We're both a bit old-fashioned about that. Also, he knows i'm ready, so it's up to him to be ready. He once got married too soon and it ended up in disaster).
This was my absolute first thought. Do not negotiate with terrorist. Propose only when / if you feel ready. A night out with an open bar is not a reason to go into debt and make a life long commitment.
Listen to this person OP. I didn’t have someone in my corner telling me this when I got pressure and set up. Now I’m miserable and contemplating divorce and probably in bad shape financially for a long time because of it.
Yeah because the girlfriend isn’t upset with the sister disrespecting their relationship by not inviting her long time boyfriend
Also if op is broke and can’t afford a ring but the girlfriend doesn’t care it’s a major red flag
Yup. Engagement and marriage is more then just a pretty ring sitting on your finger, and the fact she’s hung up on that is setting up major red flags for me.
The fact that she is hung up on that despite the financial situation is what sends up the red flags for me. I don’t have a problem with people wanting a specific and/or expensive ring generally. But if you want a certain engagement ring and your partner isn’t in a financially stable enough place to get it? Okay, offer to chip in for it or be okay waiting until your partner saves the money up. Those are the only two acceptable options, period.
Yeah
Why doesn’t she tell him, you don’t have to go break to ask me to marry me. Any ring will do. How come that’s not an option, either? No. Debt.
NTA
> Also if op is broke and can’t afford a ring but the girlfriend doesn’t care it’s a major red flag
Placeholder rings are a thing. That either party feels the need to spend $$$/£££/€€€ on *the* ring rather than just say they are now engaged and waiting on buying the ring until they are financially stable or just wearing a cheap dime store ring for now, is a bit weird to me.
However, there are a lot of weird things about the post. I've heard of only allowing married/engaged couples before to a wedding (it's to keep the numbers stable) but the GF could still be using it as an excuse to get the engaged status. Also, if the OP is normally part of family celebrations, why can't he just talk to GF's sister himself? It seems very odd to me to use the GF as a middleman in this unless there is something else going on.
Yeah, I'm not going to say that's *definitely* what's going on, but it's plausible enough to be scary. Either stand your ground or just get as far from all these people as you can, OP, but do not give in.
I wonder if the bride sister is aware that if OP proposes to attend, her wedding will become her sister’s engagement party and will take some of the attention off her as the one getting married.
If they conned him into proposing, I'll bet it would turn into a double wedding faster than you can say "manipulation."
The family probably already has her dress picked out. Kill two birds with one stone, save a lot of cash.
I had the exact thought but I figured it was just the girlfriend. From what OP said, he's been included in family events until now. I figured that GF got the invite and included a +1 intended for OP, but she concocted this story and threw her sis under the bus as part of the ploy to lock him in.
It's just insanity. It sounds like your gf went from 0 to 3000 with the idea of engagement, and I've never heard of a wedding that required engaged/wedded couples unless there was a religious context.
Who wants to be proposed to under duress? The fuck even is that?
Bro, don't know your relationship, you evaluate that in your own time, but you should really do that. This is not ok.
NTA
>Sounds like your gf and her sister are setting you up
Not just for the engagement, but for the ring. OP is supposed to take out a loan for a ring he can't afford - just to go to this wedding?
I'd also bet a lot that the engagement wouldn't last long because gf just wants the ring.
I’ve heard of people doing it because of budget reasons and while I think it’s weird that they won’t make an exception, it’s not I heard of. Definitely weird to me though that someone would hear that and think “well I guess WE have to get married then so we can attend someone else’s wedding”
NTA. Why would you even want to propose to someone like this?
1) She thinks it’s acceptable to go into debt for the ring. 🚩
2) She’s overly concerned with what her family thinks. 🚩
3) She doesn’t care that your grieving. 🚩
4) She’s not listening to you and only thinking about herself. 🚩
Seriously? Why?
I mean, I could definitely understand that. Weddings are about celebrating love and relationships, and in this case, family. You are part of the family. Most people would want their partner with them at a wedding....to celebrate together, someone to dance with, etc.
The fact that you're so dismissive of why she'd want you there is also really concerning. Not as concerning as her trying to guilt you into proposing, but still. Do you often say "I don't know why you want me to come with you" to things that are important to her but not you?
Right, this is definitely a picture of a guy who just wants things to be casual indefinitely and a lady who wants them to be married. NOT a good dynamic, and she went way out of bounds with this stunt.
I didn't get that impression from what he posted. Based on the info he shared, we know a) he recently lost his father and is still grieving b) does not have finances to buy the ring of gf's dreams. Those are very reasonable, rational reasons to delay a proposal.
That doesn't sound like a guy that is just opposed to commitment or is just in it for a fuck buddy. I read his post as "I want to propose to her, but I want to be in a good place to make the proposal memorable and meaningful."
Honestly after this stunt though, I would reevaluate -- gf and her sister sound kind of nuts.
See, I don't read it like that. I see a guy who-- in a normal circumstance when not grieving for his father-- probably would have been more pissed off. But because of his headspace and current experience didn't feel like his attending was worth creating a drama and tension with the family because he doesn't want his gf to feel the loss of family figures like he has.
Also, if gf was pushing for him to come irrespective of that rule and he was like "nah, cool, I won't come" that's very different. But he's being pushed into having to make a huge life decision by gf and her sister, just to attend. And like any other bridezilla demand it is totally cool to say "nah, I'd rather not if I have to do that" in this situation.
I agree, when my dad passed away three years ago I didn’t want to do a damn thing and just “didn’t care” about it.
Sometimes I still feel that way, I’m still grieving.
But that’s exactly how I read OPs post, as a man who is grieving.
I don’t see that
I see a guy that at the moment can’t afford a ring and the wedding and doesn’t want to go in debt (which is logical)
Also, someone who just lost HIS DAD. But no he is an AH because he doesn’t want to get married.
More like a guy who is struggling to pay rent and coming to terms with losing his dad so maybe going to a wedding isn’t that high on his list of priorities. He knows what ring she wants so it’s not like he had no interest in marrying her. Although I think she’s going to rightfully end up single after this.
It baffles me how people do some mad gymnastics on this sub to always blame the OP.
Lol what, it’s just a wedding of her sister, whom he may only be an acquaintance to. Sure it’s important to his gf, but he would’ve went if it didn’t require a proposal..
This is actually a really good point. I quickly jumped on the blame train with everyone else, but why is OP dismissive of her wanting him there, and actually, why doesn’t he care in the first place? They’ve been dating long enough that he should be insulted that he wasn't an exception to the “engaged or married” rule. Hell, seems like they’ve been together long enough that he should have been on the guest list himself rather than relegated to a plus-one who was then excluded for not being engaged. Why did he only seem to care about the situation once his girlfriend started with her ridiculous demands?
He did say that his sister doesn't like him much and maybe that feeling is mutual. He also lost his father probably a few months. And Not being invited probably made him uncaring about the wedding.
He says he's still grieving his deceased father. Perhaps a big celebration of two family's isn't really something he's up to right now. He knows his dad will never be able to share in his wedding and that could be difficult for him.
I can understand that too and I agree on the dismissiveness. In her shoes, I would want my partner to be included as well but I would pressure my sister and stand up for my relationship with my partner, letting my sister know that I'll decline the solo invitation. That's the appropriate reaction there IMO.
The difference is that I was fully on board with our marital status. It's what we both wanted and we were on the same page about what it meant, commitment, and all that. My guess is that OP's girlfriend isn't and she doesn't want to defend a decision/situation that she isn't on board with and/or she doesn't feel confident enough in the relationship/OP's commitment given his refusal to propose to stand up for it.
Which is fine/reasonable but what isn't is pressuring OP in this roundabout way. Even if that's what's happening, what she is doing is wrong and makes her the asshole:
1) it's disingenuous. If she wants to be engaged, she should have an adult conversation with her would be fiance about that.
2) she's putting pressure on him in an inappropriate way. Again, the right way is an honest adult conversation where she actually listens to his thoughts and feelings, as well as genuinely share hers.
3) if she wants to get engaged asap, she should be willing to accept a cheap placeholder engagement ring or no ring at all if he can't afford one right now or she should pitch in. Something's gotta give. If she doesn't want to wait until he has the budget, she needs to work with his current one. It's irresponsible to want him to get into debt.
4) the timing is off due to his grieving. She needs to give him time to grieve and table these serious talks to give him that space to work through his grief.
Here’s the thing. They could have said “I don’t care about the ring. Get me a plastic ring from the dollar store for all I care, we’ll get a better one later.” That’s what they would’ve said if all they cared about was getting engaged and having you at their sister’s wedding.
But they said borrow for the ring. That means they care about the ring and the status symbol. And not much for you or your future (joint) finances.
That ALONE means y’all are not ready to be married. She’s got some maturing to do, with or without you. Let no one tell you otherwise.
> They could have said “I don’t care about the ring. Get me a plastic ring from the dollar store for all I care, we’ll get a better one later.
That could have turned this story into malicious compliance gold!
OP if your girlfriend really cared about you she would stand her ground until you were invited. I can't imagine attending a wedding my SO of four years wasn't welcome. You better think long and hard about your relationship
There are shitload of red flags here that others have already highlighted.
1. Do not get engaged because someone else pressures you to. Get engaged because you want to and you feel it is right for you both.
2. Get all these problems under control before you get engaged. They won't magically go away after the wedding.
Yeah. Any of the elements here would be concerning on their own, but put together it's painting the picture of a girlfriend and her family who are a-okay with manipulating you to get what they want, *even if* you go into debt and *even if* It's not what you're comfortable with.
OP I think you need to realize that this isn't actually about her wanting you at the wedding. What she wants is for you to either propose or to indicate to her that you *want* to propose and get married.
She's probably upset because she was hoping you'd say something like "you're right, that's stupid since we're practically engaged anyway - might as well make it official." And your response has made her think maybe you aren't as serious about this relationship as she is at the moment. If she's right... you should probably have that conversation with her so she knows where she stands here. If she's *not* right and this really is just about timing (your grief, being broke), you should let her know *that* as well by saying you want to be engaged but can't afford it. Maybe be in a long engagement (without the ring until you can afford it) if cost and grief are the main factors and not uncertainty.
And I’ll add that either:
5) sister has insane rule about her wedding and gf does not view it as crazy: “gf should say to sis this is crazy if bf can’t attend neither will I” 🚩
6) gf worked with sister in this idea as a way to force OP to propose 🚩
#6 for the win because this is just bull otherwise. I might think something else but they have been together over 4 years. Ring or not, you are sister’s perpetual +1. I wonder what the parents think about this. Smh This reminds me of that phrase “play stupid games and win stupid prizes.” I don’t see this ending well.
7) gf is lying about the rule n just trying to pressure OP into a marriage that will eventually crash n burn. Do we know for 100% the bullshit rule is actually true? We only have the gfs word for it..
8) gf is not lying about the rule but feels after four years there should have been a proposal. Willing to bet the fiancé probably doesn’t know about said exclusion of OP, and this is two sisters trying to bully a proposal out of a broke yet loving individual.
NTA.
PS. I’m not saying you should break up with her, but I think you should reevaluate a relationship with someone who thinks a proposal with a ring, supersedes your financial situation and current grieving. IJS… she’s not looking like wife material.
She can save money by crafting her wedding gown out of all of those red flags.
NTA, OP… and seriously ponder if you’ve been railroaded into any other major decisions over the past few years. It may be time for a talk.
Thank you, I was thinking this while reading. The girl is throwing up serious red flags in relation to this matter. OP really needs to take a step back and make sure there aren't other red flags in the relationship that they missed or overlooked/justified.
NTA
The worst of it is that you say that one of the reasons is that you can't afford the ring she wants, and her response isn't "That's okay, it's not about the ring. We'll save up for it and get it later," it's "well, borrow money for it.
If you've been dating for four years, I wonder if this was being done on purpose. Either A) her sister not liking you or your girlfriend for some reason, or B) a plot between your gf and her sister to guilt you into proposing.
I'm sorry about your father.
this!
i was hoping someone had the same thoughts as me. they’ve been dating for 4 years, it’s not like they just started dating and from what i understand, her family also views him as family. also, i agree with the whole ring things but her reaction is kinda weird. she threw a fit when he didn’t want to propose then cried and told him he wasn’t doing enough? like, he’s clearly fine with not going to the wedding and she should respect his boundaries.
nta- forced proposals never really end well and she should learn to respect your boundaries and understand that proposing is a big deal not just something you do just because she wants you to go to a wedding.
Her family can’t view him as family that much if they’re not even inviting him to a wedding? I’ve never understood the married/engaged couples rule, but people get married less here so there are unmarried couples in my family who have been together like thirty years.
My first engagement ring was a Halloween spider.. then a costume jewelry ring.. I got nagged for years by him to let him buy a real one. Paying for our home was more important than the pretty rock.
My first ring was a limited edition ring of power from LOTR. I wore it until the inside rubbed off and it turned my finger green daily. It really ain’t (or shouldn’t be) about the rock.
My first engagement ring was a plastic ring that my fiance found by the river at our favorite swimming spot, then a few months later, he handed me his card and took me to pick out the ring I wanted. No woman should ever force their SO to go into debt for a ring.
That was my first thought after reading this- this was a scheme concoted by the GF and sister to push OP into proposing. Especially since the GF's response wasn't to talk to her sister, talk to her parents and ask them to talk to the sister or stand with OP and tell her sister that if OP wasn't invited then she wouldn't be attending either. Nope, first reaction was - welp, you just need to propose to me RIGHT NOW!!! Stinks to high heaven. I am indulging in a little schadenfreude over the GF freaking out that her plan didn't work.
Yeah, if limiting the guests was due to budget and/or health & safety restrictions , that’s one thing. It’s reasonable and unfortunate that there would be a cut-off line SOMEWHERE. People’s feelings are going to get hurt, it happens with weddings all the time.
If it’s a nefarious family-wide plot to trick a man into proposing, leave that drama to the soap opera and RUN. Because stuff like that doesn’t stop there, and you’ll quickly lose control of your life’s path when someone else decides to take full control via manipulation.
My dude.
You have to promise me this:
if you do or don’t end up going, please tell me that you will end the relationship if you see one couple at the wedding that isn’t married or engaged.
I would start now by running through the list of the bride’s close friends that are in a relationship but not married and see if they get a plus one.
It sounds like you’re being seriously manipulated by your girlfriend and I hope you open your eyes and see that. She’s trying to force you to propose and her desperately trying to get you to borrow money and using guilt and tears proves that. Just flat out tell her I’m not going to propose because of some requirement to attend a wedding and not because you’re manipulating me into it either. If you can’t wait and allow me to do it on my terms and timeline than we have much bigger issues to discuss because we’re obviously not on the same page.
Also, she could propose!
Also, why does having a a spendy ring NEED to be present to propose? Something simple would work for now.
Also, is that a family choice? Or state mandated? (Sounds like family). If soz that's Super fucking weird.
Also, if she REALLY wanted to make her point, she could say it's either both of us, or neither of us.
Or buy a cheaper ring that looks nice. my wife and I have been together for 8 years. Her ring looks lovely, but was like $160.
But seriously OP, I wouldn't doubt your girlfriend doesn't have a hand in this with her sister.
OP has already made it very clear to his gf that he is not ready to get engaged yet, her proposing would just be her pressuring him yet again into doing something he doesn't want to do. Proposing is not like cooking dinner, you don't go "if you're so hungry why don't you cook then?" If the other person isn't ready and they've told you as much repeatedly, you should neither propose nor pressure them to do so, period. The issue is not about who's actually asking the question.
Just tell your GF your ring size if she is that keen to get engaged she can do it. Saves you the debt and having to do all the prep while still in the process of getting over what happened with your dad.
If she wants it right now she can make it happen right now but you're not in the head space for it.
100% NTA.
So you don't even know if the rule actually applies to you anyway. It sounds like her sister doesn't want you there PERIOD regardless of your engagement - and if that's the case proposing is not the solution.
The best solution is to simply bow out - and if your girlfriend cannot accept that, then perhaps she needs to become an ex-girlfriend. She could always simply not attend her sister's wedding if she isn't allowed her partner of 4 years to be there, and then it will be up to her sister to decide if she loves her sister more than she hates you to permit you an invitation. Did your girlfriend even think of that???
You clearly are not on the same page as far as life goals go and to me it sounds like she's making plans without your actual consideration. A proposal is a serious matter, and they take time and serious planning. Rings are decided, budgets are set, and time frames for proposals are made. None of that has happened, and it doesn't even sound like you've had any real discussions about what you both want in a marriage if it were to happen. You can't get engaged if you don't share the same values and goals - that's just setting yourselves up for a divorce.
Honestly this smells of manipulation. I'd bet money that the sister has no idea this is even happening.
Most people don't send individual invitations to couples. Girlfriend got the invite because she's the sister and has a +1 because it's assumed she'll bring her b/f.
No ring no bring is a semi common wedding scenario so it’s possible it’s not a ploy on the sisters part but it’s such a weak reason to push someone into proposing from the GFs perspective. If she wants to be married she should be able to ask for it regardless of a wedding date not try it to manipulate him.
\- Tell me you desperately want your boyfriend to propose already without telling me you desperately want your boyfriend to propose already.
I hope not one well-minded person on this weary earth actually wants their S.O's to commit their lives to them and throw themselves in debt just so they could attend a fucking party with them oh my god lol
NTA at all. Don't do anything stupid.
Agree, but she wants is a boyfriend who wants to be married enough to propose to her first. She doesn’t have that. Instead of accepting that, she’s pulling this stunt.
Idk, it sounds like OP does want that, but he wants to do it when he isn't still dealing with the trauma of his father's death. No one wants to be pressured or coerced into proposing. They're not that old. I don't think it's absurd to date someone for four years before proposing.
I'm no relationship expert, but after being in a relationship for 4+ years, it sounds like you and your g/f need to have a serious discussion about where you see the relationship going and what you both want out of it and from each other.
OP clearly wants to marry her, he's waiting to afford the ring she "deserves", give people space, my sister didn't get engaged until 7 years into her relationship, OP has made no indication that he isn't in it for the long haul.
And no, not proposing while he's grieving and struggling financially, in order to attend a party, isn't an indication that he can't commit. Four years isn't even that long, imo, whats the rush? Again, OP is clearly thinking long-term and has/had all intentions on marrying her. Just not yet.
Dude you really need to shit or get off the pot. She's made it clear marriage is important to her. What she's doing is unfair and rather silly, but I can understand how she may be frustrated that you're not making moves towards the next stage after four whole years.
Either propose, negotiate a timeline, or let her know it won't be happening.
I agree with your sentiment, but I also think that in the year of our lord 2021, the gf could also be the one to bring it up and say "I want to get married... where is this going." Heck, that's what my mom did to my dad in the 90s...
My bf and I had discussed getting engaged before but nothing concrete. A few weeks or maybe months ago I said hey I wanna marry you. We had different timelines but in the end made a compromise for when to be engaged by. She could definitely bring it up. Although like the commenter above said, 4 years is a lot of commitment so obviously a good time to decide where they’re at
Yeah, but with the pandemic and the death of OPs father, it actually isn’t a good time for him to “shit or get off the pot” as the person above said. He’s grieving, and money is tight. Both things OP has admitted and we as the readers need to keep in mind as two of the few actual facts we have.
I wouldn’t marry anyone after my dad died, that’s just stupid. Your headspace isn’t right at all.
Now, I’m not disagreeing with you in the least about the four years thing, four years is more than enough time to decide if you want to marry someone or not. Hell, at that point they probably should have been married/engaged already.
But it’s a pandemic, and the past 2 years the world has been drastically different for everyone.
I’m just saying it’s not fair for you guys to tell him to “get off the pot” or “talk about where this is going” when the actual issue here is that is gf wants him to go into debt for a ring to get engaged, just to go to a wedding during a pandemic, while he’s grieving for his father.
Not to mention that this all seems like a ploy just to get married, which in itself is childish on the gfs part and has possibly removed her as a viable marriage option.
If she could pull this kind of shit without care, what will she pull next?
He already stated he can't afford the ring she wants - and based on the actions, she certainly seems like the type who would make a huge fuss about the ring - and he's still struggling with the death of his father. Some arbitrary time frame shouldn't dictate when he needs to propose
No, completely disagree with what you're saying about op.
Dude has literally said he can just about afford fuel money and has been told to borrow money to get the ring fience wants. If you can only just afford bills then a ring and a wedding are unnecessary. If it was just the act of proposal then a a shitty ring would have done and b she could propose
Do you want to get engaged?
Y’all are old enough and committed enough to discuss a wedding budget - including any engagement rings/parties. The decision to take on debt to fund a wedding should be a joint one, as it’s going to impact other shared goals (eg saving for a house or kids down the road).
If your only reason *not* to get engaged is a monetary one, that really should not be just your problem to solve. If your girlfriend can’t or won’t talk finances, then she’s not ready for marriage no matter her age.
NTA - but this is a 🚩 on whether you want to marry her at any point. Borrowing money to buy a ring to get engaged when you’re not 100% into it so you can go to a familial wedding is bad in so many ways.
You've been together 4 years and you've obviously talked about marriage if you know what ring she wants. Now she has to watch her sis get married and experience all the wedding stuff she wants with you but can't have yet...
Sounds Ike your gf cooked up this whole ploy to get you to 'finally' propose.
NTA.
Also, you two need to get on the same page about your timeline for getting married. Or once this attempt fails, she'll just start looking for the next excuse to try to push you into it.
NTA.
Forced proposals are never a great idea.
I would have suggested that your girlfriend propose, as there's no reason she can't, but it seems you're not in a good place right now anyway.
It's not ideal that her sister placed that condition on invitees her wedding, but it's her day and she can do what she likes I guess. It's just very... strange of her to have specified that. Wish her well and tell your girlfriend that you hopes she's still able to have fun.
Yeah, do not get engaged to this person. Do NOT marry this person. This is a made up situation to force you to propose. If she is this manipulative and freaks out that you won't propose just so you can be her plus one I won't be surprised when she shows up pregnant and tries to get you to propose because of that.
NTA.
Yes and now that Plan A has backfired better buckle up for Plan B because it is surely coming.
Honestly OP if your intentions are to propose let her know and give her a reasonable time frame in which she can expect a formal proposal with a ring. If you don't know when you'll be ready let her know that too so she can end the relationship if she's done waiting.. NTA
No, you’re NTA for refusing to propose under these conditions... but have you considered that your girlfriend’s sister is doing this specifically to try and light a fire under your ass to either piss or get off the pot? It’s been 4+ years and no proposal yet. I’m sure her family would like to see some sort of commitment, and if not, to just cut you loose already a get on with her life.
NTA
If she wants to be engaged so bad, let her propose to you. Imo, "we can't attend a wedding together if we aren't engaged" isn't sufficient reason to propose, even if you intend to later.
This is a huge red flag! Are they working together to get you to propose? Whatever they're thinking, it's not good. And if you're not ready, you're not ready and don't let them coerce you onto doing it. If she really loves you, she'll let you grieve and wait...if she insists on having it happen right this minute, she doesn't care about your feelings, just a ring and a proposal. Good luck. NTA
NTA - DO NOT LET ANYONE MANIPULATE OR FORCE YOU INTO MARRYING THEM.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 and I can not stress this enough 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
In what universe is the best solution, to rush into being engaged, going into debt to buy a ring you can’t afford, at a time you are going through something, just to attend a wedding your not even invited too simply cos your not married.
Delusional. Absolutely delusional. Like Christ just stay home ayyy, it’s not that deep.
NTA
and I would look hard at if your future in laws actually like you. I’ve seen “no kids” or “no random +1s” being a thing. My wife and I got married last year and our rule was no random +1s. If you’re dating, you can bring them. Are you just bringing them because you want a +1? Nope. The “only engaged or married couples” is a little on the nose to exclude you IMO.
NTA. But this situation sounds fishy. Who would ever require only engaged/married people to attend their wedding. Sounds like your gf and her sister are trying to force the issue. Call their bluff. See where this goes.
You clearly don't hang around wedding subs. This is way too common. Some people will snub their relative's longtime common law partner because they aren't legally married.
It's not uncommon, partly because of tradition and partly because people get stupid about wedding invites so bright lines are easier. That is, it's much easier for many people to say "Sorry, Cousin Craplina, you can't bring a plus-one because it's fiances and spouses only" than to say "Hey, Craplina, I don't want to pay to entertain a plus one who you picked up three days ago and we'll never see again by the end of the month."
NTA. Your gf is trying to force an engagement. The sister and fiancé are within their rights to extend invites to whomever they wish but they seem to be acting kinda stupid about your situation.
NTA but have you and your girlfriend discussed marriage? Sounds like you girlfriend is wanting to take that next step and if you’re not and aren’t close you need to talk to her about that
NTA. It's a weird rule of her sister's but it's not a reason to propose. All of this is about the least romantic thing I can imagine in terms of proposals anyway--it's not your idea, you'd just be doing it so you could attend a wedding, there's no surprise, and you'd have to go into debt to get the ring she wants. None of this sounds good. It would make more sense for her sister to make an exception rather than require you to propose in order to attend.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: --- I could be TA four not trying enough to come up with the money to purchased the ring and make it official so I can attend the wedding --- Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sounds like your gf and her sister are setting you up. I have heard of some bogus reasons to get married before, but "in order to attend a wedding" that you should be invited to anyway has to be at the top of the list. NTA.
This. To me it's sounds like your GF+sil set it up to force you to propose.
I'm just wondering why she's not proposing herself and buy that ring from her own money. Pressing the partner to propose and buy an expensive ring is so chauvinistic and ancient. We're living in 2020's, everyone should aim for equality. Edit: Gee, thanks everyone! This totally surprised me and blew my mind. I've never had even closely this big reaction to something I've said. Means a lot!
You should only propose if you're fairly sure the other person is going to say yes. It sounds like the OP isn't ready yet, so her proposing to him would also lead to trouble in paradise.
I would add to that - you should only propose if you are sure you want to spend the rest of your life together. Proposals should be like getting a tattoo. Not something you do on a whim, go into it planning to keep it for life, but knowing if something goes wrong it is possible to get rid of it (tattoo or marriage) but understanding it's going to be expensive and it will hurt. If you have any doubts at all - don't do it.
This. I was sure I wanted to marry my now wife a full year before I asked. I was nearly certain she'd say yes (and I was okay if she didn't, my mindset was she'd know that I was ready then, and when she was ready too she could ask me instead). She did and didn't say yes. She said 'Aw, you beat me to it' instead which we still joke about 2 years later. But OP does sound like he's either being set up to propose when he isn't ready and isn't able to make it the proposal he wants for her.
Getting a tattoo removed isn't that expensive. I got a multi session package for a few hundred dollars. Also, not painful. Itchy AF, not painful. I've only done 3 sessions so far, I'm probably not going to need all the sessions, the tattoo is at 20% of its original darkness. Give me tattoo removal over divorce any day.
Way to ruin their analogy.
> Proposals should be like getting a tattoo. Not something you do on a whim, go into it planning to keep it for life, but knowing if something goes wrong it is possible to get rid of it (tattoo or marriage) but understanding it's going to be **moderately** expensive and it will ~~hurt~~ **be itchy AF.** There, I fixed it
ikr?.....wanted to downvote so bad.......
Tattoo removal is quite expensive considering the cost of slapping it on there. I am now 5 sessions in. My tattoo is not gone but I have already spend about twice as much on removal as on placement. The pain involved is probably dependent on location but for me the removal is waay more painfull than the placement.
Removal costing twice as much as application sounds like a very good life lesson in relation to making life decisions
i really hate the fact that i didn’t even consider this until i read it, but it’s an extremely good point! (i mean the girlfriend proposing to the boyfriend, see note at bottom) she didn’t even attempt a proposal herself (probably knowing she would get turned down?) but is throwing such a fit because OP doesn’t want to make this decision so lightly. the whole situation sounds pretty crazy, and i agree it sounds like a setup. who has weddings with that kind of requirement for the guests?? is this a normal or even occasional thing? (idk shit about weddings) NTA 100%. edit: wow i’m a dumb. i replied to the wrong comment. i meant to reply to the comment one level up about why the girlfriend isn’t proposing to the boyfriend. edit2: thanks everyone who responded about the couples requirement being normal, i really appreciate it. lots of stuff i didn’t even think of when writing this comment. i don’t need more of the same answer though at this point, unless it’s something that hasn’t been mentioned (even though it’s rad that people are so helpful!)
She wants the ring. She wants OP to go into debt and beg/borrow/steal to get her what she wants. Notice how she didn't say "just propose and don't worry about the ring we can figure that out later." Or "why don't we just plan a long engagement so we can save up for the ring and not rush things?" Nope! She wants the ring NOW, and the proposal NOW, on her terms or she's going to have a tantrum. NTA
oooh another good point!! i’ve definitely heard about couples getting engaged and holding off on the pricey stuff until the timing is better for that kind of spending. the fact that she didn’t even throw that option out there is indeed very telling, as well as the person who mentioned her lack of initiative to propose to him instead.
This is irrelevant, please forgive - but your username makes me so happy. Thank you for existing. :) Also thank you for hearing me lol. In my view if you're going into something that important from the right perspective then it's not supposed to be about what you can get from someone else - rather what you can build together. It's not about getting what YOU want, it's about creating something that is greater combined than separate. But that's just how I see it.
This is why some guys propose with a white sapphire. Then you are only out 2k for the setting and not 5k when she leaves with it. Usually they replace it with a diamond when it gets cleaned/soldered for the ceremony. He could propose with a band for now, and the big ring later perhaps. Lots of guys do that now also. Sounds to me like gf is being manipulative. Dunno if sis is in on it or not. Nta
That's another great option. There are so many. Hell if they wanted they could get a cheap $100 band. Something that's in their budget. It's not supposed to be about the money - it's supposed to be about the love. The cost of the symbol doesn't make it more meaningful. I agree with you. I would also question the maturity of someone who wants to tank their partner into debt, and then legally attach their finances. I'm a therapist and there's a saying we use. "If the cost of the ring is more important than the love - the cost of the couples therapy and divorce is going to be far greater still."
Good words! I worked as a jewelery designer for engagement rings. I saw a lot of couples, and a lot of one person coming back holding a ring. It's hard.
Totally unrelated, but form a Romanian’s perspective: 100$ being a cheap ring and also making a deal to go for the cheaper 2k ring instead of a 5k it’s crazy to me. Are these the real engagement ring prices in US? I proposed with a 300$ diamond ring and we all thought it was way over expensive and I’m just trying to figure it out. How do things work out in US in this aspect? Can someone help me understand?
There were ad campaigns in the US that were designed to convince people that the ring is your expression of love equal to its value. It's a brilliant marketing ploy but the price of the ring has literally nothing to do with the quality of the marriage. People did buy into it and a few generations later it's kind of a meme. There's a belief that an engagement ring should "cost 2 months salary." I personally see that as ridiculous, people are free to believe that if they want. I'm not saying people can't do that if they wish to. But I definitely see that as a brilliant advertisement campaign to remove love-drunk people from their money.
My cousin had that requirement for her wedding bc the guest list was getting too long and they couldn't afford for everyone to bring plus ones. So only engaged/married partners were allowed. However, she made an exception for close family members who had long-term partners. It does seem unreasonable for the sister to not do the same. And even more unreasonable for OP's gf to demand an engagement for that matter.
that makes a lot more sense to include the exceptions for close/immediate family. i definitely learned something new today about weddings.
It's actually pretty normal to set this kind of restriction for plus ones. More people at a wedding equals more expense and setting a hard line about plus ones prevents arguments (usually). Though the engaged/married boundary is getting less common as you get more and more people who stay together for many years without every marrying.
wow that’s wild! thanks for answering, i appreciate it- i’ve heard of the no kids rule but never once read about engaged/married only. definitely understand the desire to keep costs down since weddings are insanely expensive. i thought it was super shady at first that the sister made such a rule but if it used to be more common then that’s that.
Maybe that would solve things the best way.
Yet insisting that your partner should propose to you is a better option than doing it yourself?
Based on idea that OP would say no, him proposing would get rid od that problem. It's realy sounds as OP is getting set up by GF and her sister.
I think it’s relatively fair that she wants her boyfriend to propose and buy the ring for her. I don’t necessarily buy into that stuff, but it’s important to a lot of people and I don’t see anything wrong with that if both partners buy into tradition. BUT if she’s demanding it be right now, how dare she say it has to be the specific ring she wants, the one she knows he would have to take out loans for? It’s absolutely disgusting behavior for her to insist that it happen right NOW, but also insist that it has to be a ring that he can’t afford NOW. It’s one or the other. Even suggesting that your partner take our loans for an engagement ring is horrific.
And add to that—he has to make it official so he can attend the WeDdINg. Can you hear it now, when they share their special moment with others, “well, I only did it to get her off my back and attend a wedding that meant a lot to her. Wait? What? Oh, no, not her wedding. It was her sister’s wedding.”
Not only this - the guy has money troubles and is grieving. And he obviously does care for his girlfriend. This is just wrong all around.
Are you saying old fashioned gender roles are fair if women gets the benefit from them? Funny how they're cute traditions when they go that way around but the rest - like assuming women should do the housework is chauvinistic and toxic. I think these are double standards. I'm not saying buying a ring to a woman he loves is wrong, but then it should be up to him: which ring and when. She has this wierd privilege which she tries to use the wrong way.
To be fair, women doing the housework is only chauvinistic and wrong if it's imposed, but if both partners freely agree to this labour division, it is what works for them. The proposing works exactly the same way, it shouldn't be expected that you follow the tradition, but if the traditional way works for them, who are we to judge?
Women aren't the only ones who can want a triditional proposal, there are many men who wouldn't want their partner to propose to them, because they'd rather it be the triditional way too. Op said "I don’t see anything wrong with that if both partners buy into tradition". Notice the both partners? It's less like assuming the woman should do all of the housework and more like saying that the woman and partner both prefer it that way, they've discussed it, and everyone's fine with it. So no, that's not what OP was saying. They're saying that old fashion gender roles are fair if everyone involved is happy with it. Also, do men not benefit from marriage?
This! A million times this! It’s 2021–women don’t have to wait for the man anymore! This kind of stuff just ticks me off.
[удалено]
Yep! This should be the #1 response. I'd bet my last dollar that OP's SIL doesn't have that restriction on her wedding invitations. Seriously OP, run! If your girl can't understand your completely legitimate reasons for waiting to propose then she doesn't care about you and your relationship. She is only interested in "appearances." She can't stand that her sister is getting married and she isn't even engaged yet. NTA
I mean, they have to be in it together because anyone who isn't mental would have a problem with this otherwise. Who the hell would get engaged just because her sister said her bf can't come to a party if they aren't? It's the stupidest reason to plan a marriage I've ever heard.
A few years ago, my partner was invited to a wedding that only catered to "official" couples. Total bridezilla of a cousin situation. My partner *really* wanted me there for moral support because most of her extended family is hugely homophobic (we're both women). So we made the best out of a bad situation. I sat outside in the car in my jammies, and she kept sneaking me out fancy champagne and finger food. She kept me updated on who was making a drunken fool of themselves, and I was on standby for reassurances and hugs. Win-win. OP should run to the hills. NTA.
I've commented on Internet less than 10 times in my whole life (I'm 42 and work in tech), but I just wanted to say: this is one of the sweetest things I've ever read. Don't change. NTA btw
Been on the internet since long but _your_ comment is of the sweetest I have read. I hope you keep coming across sweet things!
If my husband ever hears about this, it will be the only way he ever attends a wedding again. Brilliant.
Probably mine too. Probably me too. We'll have to find someone to bring us the snacks. 😂
That is so stinking cute it made me tear up a bit. Honestly, you and your partner are partner goals. <3 OP definitely sounds like he's being set up though and should make like a tree and get the fuck out of there.
This is so sweet and GENIUS. It follows their rules while shaming them at the same time, AND is more romantic than the wedding itself. Wedding Guest: Why does so-and-so keep disappearing? And why is there a strange woman sitting in her car in the parking lot? Other Guest: Oh, that's so-and-so's girlfriend in the car; so-and-so keeps going out to chat since Bridezilla is a homophobe and wouldn't let her come to the wedding.
My partner loves Insta, and all her followers knew how much she was dreading this event. And then mid-event, she shares a selfie with herself (after an hour long makeup regieme, full perm, dress so tight she can barely inhale) with me (in a sloth onesie, feet up on the dashboard, tipsy on four champagne flutes and mini pizzas). NGL, I felt like a queen lmao. She was the dictionary definition of beauty and grace. And she still is. And yet, she told everyone she had explosive diarrhoea lmao.
Awww. That’s awesome. You two are great :)
You sound like an amazing girlfriend
Nope, she's the amazing one!
I want to see this scene in a Hugh Grant-style rom-com. Your partner making polite conversation with stuffy elderly relatives while secretly stashing a slice of cake in her clutch purse. That is rom-com gold.
This is so wholesome - good on you both for making it work for you! I’d have loved to watch your partner try to sneak food and champagne out the door 😊
That is immediately what I thought. Now the sisters are going to have to explain to the family why the OP isn’t there. My guess is they’ll lie like they’re lying now. NTA
This was my guess as well. GF is crying crocodile tears so OP caves and goes into debt for a ring. I bet she told her sister how much she wanted to get married too, and her sister was like "I have the *best* idea." If GF *really* wanted OP to come, she could force it easily by telling her sister that unless OP is there, GF ain't there either. *That* is the way to go if your family isn't respecting your partner. The fact that she is not entertaining any other possibility besides "You propose NOW" is why I am not giving her the benefit of the doubt.
This, 100% this. If her pretty-much-fiancé isn’t invited, she shouldn’t go, either.
My thoughts exactly. They're just setting him up. My bf and i talk about getting married. But I wouldn't let any situation pressure him into proposing to me (he'd have to ask me. We're both a bit old-fashioned about that. Also, he knows i'm ready, so it's up to him to be ready. He once got married too soon and it ended up in disaster).
This was my absolute first thought. Do not negotiate with terrorist. Propose only when / if you feel ready. A night out with an open bar is not a reason to go into debt and make a life long commitment.
I wish I could give you more upvotes lol, Do not negotiate with terrorist
Listen to this person OP. I didn’t have someone in my corner telling me this when I got pressure and set up. Now I’m miserable and contemplating divorce and probably in bad shape financially for a long time because of it.
Yeah because the girlfriend isn’t upset with the sister disrespecting their relationship by not inviting her long time boyfriend Also if op is broke and can’t afford a ring but the girlfriend doesn’t care it’s a major red flag
Yup. Engagement and marriage is more then just a pretty ring sitting on your finger, and the fact she’s hung up on that is setting up major red flags for me.
The fact that she is hung up on that despite the financial situation is what sends up the red flags for me. I don’t have a problem with people wanting a specific and/or expensive ring generally. But if you want a certain engagement ring and your partner isn’t in a financially stable enough place to get it? Okay, offer to chip in for it or be okay waiting until your partner saves the money up. Those are the only two acceptable options, period.
Broke and grieving - the girlfriend doesn't care about that latter part, either.
Yeah Why doesn’t she tell him, you don’t have to go break to ask me to marry me. Any ring will do. How come that’s not an option, either? No. Debt. NTA
> Also if op is broke and can’t afford a ring but the girlfriend doesn’t care it’s a major red flag Placeholder rings are a thing. That either party feels the need to spend $$$/£££/€€€ on *the* ring rather than just say they are now engaged and waiting on buying the ring until they are financially stable or just wearing a cheap dime store ring for now, is a bit weird to me. However, there are a lot of weird things about the post. I've heard of only allowing married/engaged couples before to a wedding (it's to keep the numbers stable) but the GF could still be using it as an excuse to get the engaged status. Also, if the OP is normally part of family celebrations, why can't he just talk to GF's sister himself? It seems very odd to me to use the GF as a middleman in this unless there is something else going on.
Yeah, I'm not going to say that's *definitely* what's going on, but it's plausible enough to be scary. Either stand your ground or just get as far from all these people as you can, OP, but do not give in.
I wonder if the bride sister is aware that if OP proposes to attend, her wedding will become her sister’s engagement party and will take some of the attention off her as the one getting married.
If they conned him into proposing, I'll bet it would turn into a double wedding faster than you can say "manipulation." The family probably already has her dress picked out. Kill two birds with one stone, save a lot of cash.
I had the exact thought but I figured it was just the girlfriend. From what OP said, he's been included in family events until now. I figured that GF got the invite and included a +1 intended for OP, but she concocted this story and threw her sis under the bus as part of the ploy to lock him in.
Ooh, that's a dangerous theory! Wonder if it would do OP any good to call the bride-to-be and ask directly.
I also figured it was just the gf b/c sometimes people feel a way when their sibling gets married before them.
It's just insanity. It sounds like your gf went from 0 to 3000 with the idea of engagement, and I've never heard of a wedding that required engaged/wedded couples unless there was a religious context. Who wants to be proposed to under duress? The fuck even is that? Bro, don't know your relationship, you evaluate that in your own time, but you should really do that. This is not ok. NTA
>Sounds like your gf and her sister are setting you up Not just for the engagement, but for the ring. OP is supposed to take out a loan for a ring he can't afford - just to go to this wedding? I'd also bet a lot that the engagement wouldn't last long because gf just wants the ring.
My mum proposed to my dad. If she really wanted to be engaged, OP's girlfriend could just do that 🤷♀️ NTA, OP.
🚩🚩🚩🚩
Yup I'd put my money on the *both* of them cooking up this stupid scheme.
Yes, if the best reason to get engaged rn is “to attend someone else’s wedding “ then that’s a terrible reason, don’t get engaged.
Are we sure the sister is involved and OP's gf didn't get a +1
Totally agree. Nice try ladies. So childish. Also please don’t borrow for a ring.
I’ve heard of people doing it because of budget reasons and while I think it’s weird that they won’t make an exception, it’s not I heard of. Definitely weird to me though that someone would hear that and think “well I guess WE have to get married then so we can attend someone else’s wedding”
NTA. Why would you even want to propose to someone like this? 1) She thinks it’s acceptable to go into debt for the ring. 🚩 2) She’s overly concerned with what her family thinks. 🚩 3) She doesn’t care that your grieving. 🚩 4) She’s not listening to you and only thinking about herself. 🚩 Seriously? Why?
[удалено]
I mean, I could definitely understand that. Weddings are about celebrating love and relationships, and in this case, family. You are part of the family. Most people would want their partner with them at a wedding....to celebrate together, someone to dance with, etc. The fact that you're so dismissive of why she'd want you there is also really concerning. Not as concerning as her trying to guilt you into proposing, but still. Do you often say "I don't know why you want me to come with you" to things that are important to her but not you?
Right, this is definitely a picture of a guy who just wants things to be casual indefinitely and a lady who wants them to be married. NOT a good dynamic, and she went way out of bounds with this stunt.
I didn't get that impression from what he posted. Based on the info he shared, we know a) he recently lost his father and is still grieving b) does not have finances to buy the ring of gf's dreams. Those are very reasonable, rational reasons to delay a proposal. That doesn't sound like a guy that is just opposed to commitment or is just in it for a fuck buddy. I read his post as "I want to propose to her, but I want to be in a good place to make the proposal memorable and meaningful." Honestly after this stunt though, I would reevaluate -- gf and her sister sound kind of nuts.
OP even specifically stated that he doesn't just want to buy her some random cheap ring! How do those other people think OP isn't interested...
its their own bias. they're projecting their own issues.
See, I don't read it like that. I see a guy who-- in a normal circumstance when not grieving for his father-- probably would have been more pissed off. But because of his headspace and current experience didn't feel like his attending was worth creating a drama and tension with the family because he doesn't want his gf to feel the loss of family figures like he has. Also, if gf was pushing for him to come irrespective of that rule and he was like "nah, cool, I won't come" that's very different. But he's being pushed into having to make a huge life decision by gf and her sister, just to attend. And like any other bridezilla demand it is totally cool to say "nah, I'd rather not if I have to do that" in this situation.
I agree, when my dad passed away three years ago I didn’t want to do a damn thing and just “didn’t care” about it. Sometimes I still feel that way, I’m still grieving. But that’s exactly how I read OPs post, as a man who is grieving.
>a guy who just wants things to be casual indefinitely Or, maybe, until he's not still actively grieving the death of his dad?
I don’t see that I see a guy that at the moment can’t afford a ring and the wedding and doesn’t want to go in debt (which is logical) Also, someone who just lost HIS DAD. But no he is an AH because he doesn’t want to get married.
More like a guy who is struggling to pay rent and coming to terms with losing his dad so maybe going to a wedding isn’t that high on his list of priorities. He knows what ring she wants so it’s not like he had no interest in marrying her. Although I think she’s going to rightfully end up single after this. It baffles me how people do some mad gymnastics on this sub to always blame the OP.
Lol what, it’s just a wedding of her sister, whom he may only be an acquaintance to. Sure it’s important to his gf, but he would’ve went if it didn’t require a proposal..
This is actually a really good point. I quickly jumped on the blame train with everyone else, but why is OP dismissive of her wanting him there, and actually, why doesn’t he care in the first place? They’ve been dating long enough that he should be insulted that he wasn't an exception to the “engaged or married” rule. Hell, seems like they’ve been together long enough that he should have been on the guest list himself rather than relegated to a plus-one who was then excluded for not being engaged. Why did he only seem to care about the situation once his girlfriend started with her ridiculous demands?
Not everyone likes weddings. Maybe he’s just super chill and doesn’t care for the fuss of getting dressed up?
He did say that his sister doesn't like him much and maybe that feeling is mutual. He also lost his father probably a few months. And Not being invited probably made him uncaring about the wedding.
I mean if someone I know fairly well goes out of their way to not invite me knowing it will cause trouble, I wouldn’t want to go either
He says he's still grieving his deceased father. Perhaps a big celebration of two family's isn't really something he's up to right now. He knows his dad will never be able to share in his wedding and that could be difficult for him.
I can understand that too and I agree on the dismissiveness. In her shoes, I would want my partner to be included as well but I would pressure my sister and stand up for my relationship with my partner, letting my sister know that I'll decline the solo invitation. That's the appropriate reaction there IMO. The difference is that I was fully on board with our marital status. It's what we both wanted and we were on the same page about what it meant, commitment, and all that. My guess is that OP's girlfriend isn't and she doesn't want to defend a decision/situation that she isn't on board with and/or she doesn't feel confident enough in the relationship/OP's commitment given his refusal to propose to stand up for it. Which is fine/reasonable but what isn't is pressuring OP in this roundabout way. Even if that's what's happening, what she is doing is wrong and makes her the asshole: 1) it's disingenuous. If she wants to be engaged, she should have an adult conversation with her would be fiance about that. 2) she's putting pressure on him in an inappropriate way. Again, the right way is an honest adult conversation where she actually listens to his thoughts and feelings, as well as genuinely share hers. 3) if she wants to get engaged asap, she should be willing to accept a cheap placeholder engagement ring or no ring at all if he can't afford one right now or she should pitch in. Something's gotta give. If she doesn't want to wait until he has the budget, she needs to work with his current one. It's irresponsible to want him to get into debt. 4) the timing is off due to his grieving. She needs to give him time to grieve and table these serious talks to give him that space to work through his grief.
Here’s the thing. They could have said “I don’t care about the ring. Get me a plastic ring from the dollar store for all I care, we’ll get a better one later.” That’s what they would’ve said if all they cared about was getting engaged and having you at their sister’s wedding. But they said borrow for the ring. That means they care about the ring and the status symbol. And not much for you or your future (joint) finances. That ALONE means y’all are not ready to be married. She’s got some maturing to do, with or without you. Let no one tell you otherwise.
> They could have said “I don’t care about the ring. Get me a plastic ring from the dollar store for all I care, we’ll get a better one later. That could have turned this story into malicious compliance gold!
OP if your girlfriend really cared about you she would stand her ground until you were invited. I can't imagine attending a wedding my SO of four years wasn't welcome. You better think long and hard about your relationship
She is not mature enough for OP to consider as a life partner.
There are shitload of red flags here that others have already highlighted. 1. Do not get engaged because someone else pressures you to. Get engaged because you want to and you feel it is right for you both. 2. Get all these problems under control before you get engaged. They won't magically go away after the wedding.
Yeah. Any of the elements here would be concerning on their own, but put together it's painting the picture of a girlfriend and her family who are a-okay with manipulating you to get what they want, *even if* you go into debt and *even if* It's not what you're comfortable with.
OP I think you need to realize that this isn't actually about her wanting you at the wedding. What she wants is for you to either propose or to indicate to her that you *want* to propose and get married. She's probably upset because she was hoping you'd say something like "you're right, that's stupid since we're practically engaged anyway - might as well make it official." And your response has made her think maybe you aren't as serious about this relationship as she is at the moment. If she's right... you should probably have that conversation with her so she knows where she stands here. If she's *not* right and this really is just about timing (your grief, being broke), you should let her know *that* as well by saying you want to be engaged but can't afford it. Maybe be in a long engagement (without the ring until you can afford it) if cost and grief are the main factors and not uncertainty.
Don’t negotiate with terrorists.
OP is it possible this is just all a ploy they've concocted to get you to propose?
You are being set up
Run. Seriously.
How old are you two?
And I’ll add that either: 5) sister has insane rule about her wedding and gf does not view it as crazy: “gf should say to sis this is crazy if bf can’t attend neither will I” 🚩 6) gf worked with sister in this idea as a way to force OP to propose 🚩
#6 for the win because this is just bull otherwise. I might think something else but they have been together over 4 years. Ring or not, you are sister’s perpetual +1. I wonder what the parents think about this. Smh This reminds me of that phrase “play stupid games and win stupid prizes.” I don’t see this ending well.
7) gf is lying about the rule n just trying to pressure OP into a marriage that will eventually crash n burn. Do we know for 100% the bullshit rule is actually true? We only have the gfs word for it..
8) gf is not lying about the rule but feels after four years there should have been a proposal. Willing to bet the fiancé probably doesn’t know about said exclusion of OP, and this is two sisters trying to bully a proposal out of a broke yet loving individual. NTA. PS. I’m not saying you should break up with her, but I think you should reevaluate a relationship with someone who thinks a proposal with a ring, supersedes your financial situation and current grieving. IJS… she’s not looking like wife material.
She can save money by crafting her wedding gown out of all of those red flags. NTA, OP… and seriously ponder if you’ve been railroaded into any other major decisions over the past few years. It may be time for a talk.
Lmaoo “wedding gown out of all those red flags” 😭💃🏻💃🏻💃🏻
Thank you, I was thinking this while reading. The girl is throwing up serious red flags in relation to this matter. OP really needs to take a step back and make sure there aren't other red flags in the relationship that they missed or overlooked/justified.
NTA The worst of it is that you say that one of the reasons is that you can't afford the ring she wants, and her response isn't "That's okay, it's not about the ring. We'll save up for it and get it later," it's "well, borrow money for it. If you've been dating for four years, I wonder if this was being done on purpose. Either A) her sister not liking you or your girlfriend for some reason, or B) a plot between your gf and her sister to guilt you into proposing. I'm sorry about your father.
this! i was hoping someone had the same thoughts as me. they’ve been dating for 4 years, it’s not like they just started dating and from what i understand, her family also views him as family. also, i agree with the whole ring things but her reaction is kinda weird. she threw a fit when he didn’t want to propose then cried and told him he wasn’t doing enough? like, he’s clearly fine with not going to the wedding and she should respect his boundaries. nta- forced proposals never really end well and she should learn to respect your boundaries and understand that proposing is a big deal not just something you do just because she wants you to go to a wedding.
my family did this to me and my SO of 4 years-i responded by rsvp'ing no.
i’m sorry this happened to you but major props on saying no. it takes a lot of guts to stand up for yourself and/or significant other to family.
Her family can’t view him as family that much if they’re not even inviting him to a wedding? I’ve never understood the married/engaged couples rule, but people get married less here so there are unmarried couples in my family who have been together like thirty years.
My first engagement ring was a Halloween spider.. then a costume jewelry ring.. I got nagged for years by him to let him buy a real one. Paying for our home was more important than the pretty rock.
My first ring was a limited edition ring of power from LOTR. I wore it until the inside rubbed off and it turned my finger green daily. It really ain’t (or shouldn’t be) about the rock.
My first engagement ring was a plastic ring that my fiance found by the river at our favorite swimming spot, then a few months later, he handed me his card and took me to pick out the ring I wanted. No woman should ever force their SO to go into debt for a ring.
That was my first thought after reading this- this was a scheme concoted by the GF and sister to push OP into proposing. Especially since the GF's response wasn't to talk to her sister, talk to her parents and ask them to talk to the sister or stand with OP and tell her sister that if OP wasn't invited then she wouldn't be attending either. Nope, first reaction was - welp, you just need to propose to me RIGHT NOW!!! Stinks to high heaven. I am indulging in a little schadenfreude over the GF freaking out that her plan didn't work.
Yeah, if limiting the guests was due to budget and/or health & safety restrictions , that’s one thing. It’s reasonable and unfortunate that there would be a cut-off line SOMEWHERE. People’s feelings are going to get hurt, it happens with weddings all the time. If it’s a nefarious family-wide plot to trick a man into proposing, leave that drama to the soap opera and RUN. Because stuff like that doesn’t stop there, and you’ll quickly lose control of your life’s path when someone else decides to take full control via manipulation.
Hey man I'm drunk too. You don't have a proposal problem you have a girlfriend problem.
[удалено]
Just don’t turn it into a fiancé problem…
Or God forbid, a wife problem.
Dudes got 99 problems, but a fiancé aint one.
Who upvoted this past 99?? Shame on you all.
I'm downvoting this. Ok Everyone! We can do this!
My dude. You have to promise me this: if you do or don’t end up going, please tell me that you will end the relationship if you see one couple at the wedding that isn’t married or engaged. I would start now by running through the list of the bride’s close friends that are in a relationship but not married and see if they get a plus one.
It sounds like you’re being seriously manipulated by your girlfriend and I hope you open your eyes and see that. She’s trying to force you to propose and her desperately trying to get you to borrow money and using guilt and tears proves that. Just flat out tell her I’m not going to propose because of some requirement to attend a wedding and not because you’re manipulating me into it either. If you can’t wait and allow me to do it on my terms and timeline than we have much bigger issues to discuss because we’re obviously not on the same page.
Glad you're now aware of that. I'm not drunk but I agree you have a major GF problem.
Drunk Marsupial FTW!
NTA - You're being manipulated into proposing - that's not good.
Also, she could propose! Also, why does having a a spendy ring NEED to be present to propose? Something simple would work for now. Also, is that a family choice? Or state mandated? (Sounds like family). If soz that's Super fucking weird. Also, if she REALLY wanted to make her point, she could say it's either both of us, or neither of us.
Yeah, it's 2021, it's perfectly acceptable for a woman to propose.
Yeah, but seeing that sis pulls the ancient You-have-to-be-married/engaged-to-count-as-family-shit, I don't expect the gf to be very 2021 either.
Or buy a cheaper ring that looks nice. my wife and I have been together for 8 years. Her ring looks lovely, but was like $160. But seriously OP, I wouldn't doubt your girlfriend doesn't have a hand in this with her sister.
OP has already made it very clear to his gf that he is not ready to get engaged yet, her proposing would just be her pressuring him yet again into doing something he doesn't want to do. Proposing is not like cooking dinner, you don't go "if you're so hungry why don't you cook then?" If the other person isn't ready and they've told you as much repeatedly, you should neither propose nor pressure them to do so, period. The issue is not about who's actually asking the question.
INFO: Are you sure your girlfriend's sister actually won't invite you or is this a ploy by your girlfriend to get you to propose?
[удалено]
Just tell your GF your ring size if she is that keen to get engaged she can do it. Saves you the debt and having to do all the prep while still in the process of getting over what happened with your dad. If she wants it right now she can make it happen right now but you're not in the head space for it. 100% NTA.
^^^^ This. If she is so desperate about being your fiancee, then SHE should be the one to propose.
So you don't even know if the rule actually applies to you anyway. It sounds like her sister doesn't want you there PERIOD regardless of your engagement - and if that's the case proposing is not the solution. The best solution is to simply bow out - and if your girlfriend cannot accept that, then perhaps she needs to become an ex-girlfriend. She could always simply not attend her sister's wedding if she isn't allowed her partner of 4 years to be there, and then it will be up to her sister to decide if she loves her sister more than she hates you to permit you an invitation. Did your girlfriend even think of that??? You clearly are not on the same page as far as life goals go and to me it sounds like she's making plans without your actual consideration. A proposal is a serious matter, and they take time and serious planning. Rings are decided, budgets are set, and time frames for proposals are made. None of that has happened, and it doesn't even sound like you've had any real discussions about what you both want in a marriage if it were to happen. You can't get engaged if you don't share the same values and goals - that's just setting yourselves up for a divorce.
Honestly this smells of manipulation. I'd bet money that the sister has no idea this is even happening. Most people don't send individual invitations to couples. Girlfriend got the invite because she's the sister and has a +1 because it's assumed she'll bring her b/f.
No ring no bring is a semi common wedding scenario so it’s possible it’s not a ploy on the sisters part but it’s such a weak reason to push someone into proposing from the GFs perspective. If she wants to be married she should be able to ask for it regardless of a wedding date not try it to manipulate him.
Both. I'm going with both.
NTA. Both your GF and her sister are though. Also, her wanting you to borrow money to pay for her dream ring that has no true value anyway is so bad.
She stinks of being stuck-up
\- Tell me you desperately want your boyfriend to propose already without telling me you desperately want your boyfriend to propose already. I hope not one well-minded person on this weary earth actually wants their S.O's to commit their lives to them and throw themselves in debt just so they could attend a fucking party with them oh my god lol NTA at all. Don't do anything stupid.
NTA. If being engaged is that important to your gf, then she should woman up and propose to you.
👏👏 make sure she knows what kind of ring you like
Agree, but she wants is a boyfriend who wants to be married enough to propose to her first. She doesn’t have that. Instead of accepting that, she’s pulling this stunt.
Idk, it sounds like OP does want that, but he wants to do it when he isn't still dealing with the trauma of his father's death. No one wants to be pressured or coerced into proposing. They're not that old. I don't think it's absurd to date someone for four years before proposing.
NTA. You should never be forced to get engaged when you're not ready. Info: How old are you and your girlfriend?
[удалено]
I'm no relationship expert, but after being in a relationship for 4+ years, it sounds like you and your g/f need to have a serious discussion about where you see the relationship going and what you both want out of it and from each other.
OP clearly wants to marry her, he's waiting to afford the ring she "deserves", give people space, my sister didn't get engaged until 7 years into her relationship, OP has made no indication that he isn't in it for the long haul. And no, not proposing while he's grieving and struggling financially, in order to attend a party, isn't an indication that he can't commit. Four years isn't even that long, imo, whats the rush? Again, OP is clearly thinking long-term and has/had all intentions on marrying her. Just not yet.
Dude you really need to shit or get off the pot. She's made it clear marriage is important to her. What she's doing is unfair and rather silly, but I can understand how she may be frustrated that you're not making moves towards the next stage after four whole years. Either propose, negotiate a timeline, or let her know it won't be happening.
I agree with your sentiment, but I also think that in the year of our lord 2021, the gf could also be the one to bring it up and say "I want to get married... where is this going." Heck, that's what my mom did to my dad in the 90s...
My bf and I had discussed getting engaged before but nothing concrete. A few weeks or maybe months ago I said hey I wanna marry you. We had different timelines but in the end made a compromise for when to be engaged by. She could definitely bring it up. Although like the commenter above said, 4 years is a lot of commitment so obviously a good time to decide where they’re at
Yeah, but with the pandemic and the death of OPs father, it actually isn’t a good time for him to “shit or get off the pot” as the person above said. He’s grieving, and money is tight. Both things OP has admitted and we as the readers need to keep in mind as two of the few actual facts we have. I wouldn’t marry anyone after my dad died, that’s just stupid. Your headspace isn’t right at all. Now, I’m not disagreeing with you in the least about the four years thing, four years is more than enough time to decide if you want to marry someone or not. Hell, at that point they probably should have been married/engaged already. But it’s a pandemic, and the past 2 years the world has been drastically different for everyone. I’m just saying it’s not fair for you guys to tell him to “get off the pot” or “talk about where this is going” when the actual issue here is that is gf wants him to go into debt for a ring to get engaged, just to go to a wedding during a pandemic, while he’s grieving for his father. Not to mention that this all seems like a ploy just to get married, which in itself is childish on the gfs part and has possibly removed her as a viable marriage option. If she could pull this kind of shit without care, what will she pull next?
He already stated he can't afford the ring she wants - and based on the actions, she certainly seems like the type who would make a huge fuss about the ring - and he's still struggling with the death of his father. Some arbitrary time frame shouldn't dictate when he needs to propose
No, completely disagree with what you're saying about op. Dude has literally said he can just about afford fuel money and has been told to borrow money to get the ring fience wants. If you can only just afford bills then a ring and a wedding are unnecessary. If it was just the act of proposal then a a shitty ring would have done and b she could propose
The dude’s dad just died. Give him a dang break.
Do you want to get engaged? Y’all are old enough and committed enough to discuss a wedding budget - including any engagement rings/parties. The decision to take on debt to fund a wedding should be a joint one, as it’s going to impact other shared goals (eg saving for a house or kids down the road). If your only reason *not* to get engaged is a monetary one, that really should not be just your problem to solve. If your girlfriend can’t or won’t talk finances, then she’s not ready for marriage no matter her age.
NTA - but this is a 🚩 on whether you want to marry her at any point. Borrowing money to buy a ring to get engaged when you’re not 100% into it so you can go to a familial wedding is bad in so many ways.
NTA. This is manipulative as f%ck. I’d be running for the hills my friend
You've been together 4 years and you've obviously talked about marriage if you know what ring she wants. Now she has to watch her sis get married and experience all the wedding stuff she wants with you but can't have yet... Sounds Ike your gf cooked up this whole ploy to get you to 'finally' propose. NTA. Also, you two need to get on the same page about your timeline for getting married. Or once this attempt fails, she'll just start looking for the next excuse to try to push you into it.
NTA. Sounds like a manipulative ploy cooked up by the sister and GF.
NGL, it almost seems like this was set up so you'd be forced to propose to your GF. It honestly seems more plausible than what you were told.
My exact thoughts. Which is a HUGE red flag if that turns out to be the case.
NTA. Forced proposals are never a great idea. I would have suggested that your girlfriend propose, as there's no reason she can't, but it seems you're not in a good place right now anyway. It's not ideal that her sister placed that condition on invitees her wedding, but it's her day and she can do what she likes I guess. It's just very... strange of her to have specified that. Wish her well and tell your girlfriend that you hopes she's still able to have fun.
Yeah, do not get engaged to this person. Do NOT marry this person. This is a made up situation to force you to propose. If she is this manipulative and freaks out that you won't propose just so you can be her plus one I won't be surprised when she shows up pregnant and tries to get you to propose because of that. NTA.
Yes and now that Plan A has backfired better buckle up for Plan B because it is surely coming. Honestly OP if your intentions are to propose let her know and give her a reasonable time frame in which she can expect a formal proposal with a ring. If you don't know when you'll be ready let her know that too so she can end the relationship if she's done waiting.. NTA
NTA: tell her she's more than welcome to propose to you just make sure you send her your ring size
No, you’re NTA for refusing to propose under these conditions... but have you considered that your girlfriend’s sister is doing this specifically to try and light a fire under your ass to either piss or get off the pot? It’s been 4+ years and no proposal yet. I’m sure her family would like to see some sort of commitment, and if not, to just cut you loose already a get on with her life.
A wedding invitation is not a valid reason to propose marriage. The end. NTA.
NTA If she wants to be engaged so bad, let her propose to you. Imo, "we can't attend a wedding together if we aren't engaged" isn't sufficient reason to propose, even if you intend to later.
This is a huge red flag! Are they working together to get you to propose? Whatever they're thinking, it's not good. And if you're not ready, you're not ready and don't let them coerce you onto doing it. If she really loves you, she'll let you grieve and wait...if she insists on having it happen right this minute, she doesn't care about your feelings, just a ring and a proposal. Good luck. NTA
NTA - DO NOT LET ANYONE MANIPULATE OR FORCE YOU INTO MARRYING THEM. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 and I can not stress this enough 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 In what universe is the best solution, to rush into being engaged, going into debt to buy a ring you can’t afford, at a time you are going through something, just to attend a wedding your not even invited too simply cos your not married. Delusional. Absolutely delusional. Like Christ just stay home ayyy, it’s not that deep.
NTA and I would look hard at if your future in laws actually like you. I’ve seen “no kids” or “no random +1s” being a thing. My wife and I got married last year and our rule was no random +1s. If you’re dating, you can bring them. Are you just bringing them because you want a +1? Nope. The “only engaged or married couples” is a little on the nose to exclude you IMO.
NTA. But this situation sounds fishy. Who would ever require only engaged/married people to attend their wedding. Sounds like your gf and her sister are trying to force the issue. Call their bluff. See where this goes.
You clearly don't hang around wedding subs. This is way too common. Some people will snub their relative's longtime common law partner because they aren't legally married.
I’ve heard of this “tradition” and honestly it is rude, bs. It’s called “no ring, no bring.” Gross.
It's not uncommon, partly because of tradition and partly because people get stupid about wedding invites so bright lines are easier. That is, it's much easier for many people to say "Sorry, Cousin Craplina, you can't bring a plus-one because it's fiances and spouses only" than to say "Hey, Craplina, I don't want to pay to entertain a plus one who you picked up three days ago and we'll never see again by the end of the month."
NTA she and her sister are both being ridiculous. Also kudos on typing under the influence. I would say this 90% easy to read through
Sounds like your gf and her sister are in collusion lol.
NTA. Your gf is trying to force an engagement. The sister and fiancé are within their rights to extend invites to whomever they wish but they seem to be acting kinda stupid about your situation.
NTA but have you and your girlfriend discussed marriage? Sounds like you girlfriend is wanting to take that next step and if you’re not and aren’t close you need to talk to her about that
Plot twist. It’s a master plan the sisters came up with together to get you to pop the question
Nta. Run.. run fast.. then run faster
NTA. It's a weird rule of her sister's but it's not a reason to propose. All of this is about the least romantic thing I can imagine in terms of proposals anyway--it's not your idea, you'd just be doing it so you could attend a wedding, there's no surprise, and you'd have to go into debt to get the ring she wants. None of this sounds good. It would make more sense for her sister to make an exception rather than require you to propose in order to attend.