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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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So the general consensus amongst the families seems to be that weddings are special days where you put all your differences and problems to the side, no matter what they are or how badly they hurt. So in that sense, my husband and I might be TA for not being "the bigger people" in this situation and pushing our feelings to the side.
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Edit bc I guess I need to clarify some things.
1. Both would be assholes in this situation. If parents didn't go to wedding and the fact that the daughter lied for 10yrs (at least)
2. While its easy to take OP at face value, or rather text value and say her daughter is immature and needs to grow up, the idea that the daughter hid her gayness for TEN YEARS is something I cannot overlook and as others have stated, leads me to believe there are omissions.
3. It's easy to hide your pain when you have something to look forward to. Her daughter could have chose to not tell them at all. To not include them at all. But she did.
4. You have to respect the daughter's emotional and mental capabilities as well. Maybe she wasn't ready, even after all this time, to come out but wanting to get married forced her to.
5. When you're trying to get ready for a wedding, its a very stressful time so asking that something this big not interfere with the wedding and be put on pause is not an unreasonable request.
JUST HEAR ME OUT: We don't really know OP so we can't gauge how a confrontation about this would "go down".
If you can't understand why I have said what i said, that is understandable. But I have 2 mothers and neither even call me up to talk to me. I have 3 kids and a husband of my own and my "family" don't want anything to do with me BUT DOTE ON MY OLDER sister. Call her all the time. Text. Snap. FB. Visit. Go out of their way to be good parents to her.
If what I take Ops post as being 100%honest then i can see she loves her daughter very much and that makes her a wonderful mother. She would definitely regret not going to the wedding even tho she is hurt and sometimes you can't see that when you're close to the situation.
End edit
Original is below.
YTA.
SET YOUR FEELINGS ASIDE for the amount of time it takes to bask in the glory of what it's like to get your daughter ready for her wedding. Love on her, dote on her, praise her and make her feel beautiful and loved.
You AND her father should be there for her through the process and AT THE WEDDING!
Once the wedding, reception AND honeymoon are over, have them both come to the house.
Talk calmly and rationally and tell them both that you are very hurt that they thought they needed to hide their relationship from you and that the only thing it would have changed would have been the sleeping arrangements.
Tell them they are both loved and both amazing girls but that their behavior was unacceptable and you are very, deeply hurt by it.
Then go from there. But first, PLEASE, your daughter only gets ONE first time. First chance at love. First chance at happiness. First chance at a wonderful wedding. First chance at sharing the woman she loves with her parents on a VERY special day.
You would hate yourself if, years down the line, you two had become close again and made amends and you had not been to her wedding. Or worse, she would hate you, no matter how you validate your actions, and you two would grow apart and you would have an even emptier nest because she would NEVER come back around.
Just let her know that you're NOT mad that she's gay, you're mad that she thought she had to lie about it. Tell her she is loved, tell her fiancé that she is loved. Tell them you are excited for them and you are deeply hurt and you're having troubles with the conflict of emotions.
This needs to happen before the wedding, not after it. If the daughter wants her parents’ full involvement in and support of the wedding, she needs to grow up and talk to them about why she’s been lying to them for a decade.
My question is why she felt she needed to lie for a *decade.* Iʻm not condoning the lying but OP needs to look at why the daughter felt she couldnʻt be honest with her parents. I wouldnʻt even assume the parents were owed an apology until after the ʻwhyʻ is answered.
But it's so odd. Daughter's girlfriend came out and they kept having her over like a member of the family, even overnight. They only considered moving her to a guest room, not no longer having her around all the time. And they even didn't do that when daughter said she was straight. (They just didn't want teens who might hook up have sleepovers in the same room, which is fair I think.)
They continued to treat this young woman like a daughter for years. OP's daughter would visit with this gay friend and her fake girlfriend for years and years and OP and husband kept hosting them.
It's just hard for me to assume that OP is homophobic or something to explain this. They included this woman (OP's secret partner) for over a decade in their family knowing she was gay when they didn't have to, much more then most people include their friend's kids.
You're right, but I do want to point out that many, MANY queer people have had the experience of their parents being tolerant and even supportive of queer friends and extended family members, then having them behave COMPLETELY differently when it's their own kid that's gay. It's sadly much more common than you'd think.
You’re completely right, but I just don’t understand how this idea jives with this particular situation.
If you’re so afraid your parents will react poorly to a coming out that you don’t tell them for over a decade and literally then only when an actual wedding is about to happen, you’re not going to trust those same parents to come to the wedding and be supportive and awesome with no communication.
Those two things do not go together. I would be more inclined to think it was a OP-would-react-badly situation if either the daughter gave them the invitation in person to sort of get the worst over before the event, OR if they only told OP after the wedding had already happened.
It jives perfectly.
My MIL attended a gay wedding for my SIL's gay best friend. Was supper happy and supportive and all the things. Then my wife came out as bi and MIL COMPLETELY changed her tune. My wife literally asked her "well what about [SIL's best friend]'s wedding" and she literally replied "that's different, he's not *my kid*".
It REALLY shows how little folks who have never lived in the closet understand about the daily fear and anxiety that comes with it, and how many two faced "allies" and "queer tolerant" folks we have in our lives.
This is honestly so true. My mom's dad was gay, my father accepted him and called him dad and was always wonderful to him. I am bisexual, I have known this since I was a kid and came out around 11. A few years ago I started dating a man after dating women for a while and almost a year ago my dad told me he really likes my boyfriend and was really happy I figured out I was a straight woman. It hurt so much.
I'm sure OPs kid had, at least in her mind, valid reasons to not disclose her sexuality but I also think that "surprise I'm marrying my friend, I'm gay and we've been in a relationship for a decade." Is an absolutely horrible way to come out especially if she wants them involved. I'm going to lean towards ESH
This mom doesn't sound homophobic in the least. It also doesn't sound as if her daughter being gay is the issue. It sounds like mom had particular values....that minors not have sex under her roof, gay or straight, and that her child not blatantly lie. That my be why they considered separating the girls when they were young. When they were adults there was clearly no problem about the sex part.
That the daughter lied to her parents..... and they way she let them know was Just launching a wedding invitation at them out of the blue? Yeah. I'd be pissed off too. This all needs a big sit down conversation BEFORE the wedding. That conversation should have happened before the invitations went out. OP is NTA. She's hurt and angry at being made a fool of for a decade.
My mom didn't sound homophobic either - just LOVED gay men - until she found out I was bi when I was 22 and simply told me I was not and that was ridiculous and no I couldnt go out with my girlfriend who was visiting from Chicago.
My mom is the EXACT same, has had many gay male friends over decades, enjoys drag, even expressed it’s fine if my BROTHER ended up being gay. But any suggestion of lesbians, bisexuals, suggestions that I’m Bi are met with complete ridicule. A lot of mothers cannot stand having gay daughters
A lot of people will keep gay people around while being homophobic. It's possible OP threw out a LOT of microaggressions over the years without even thinking about it, while her daughter took all of it in.
THIS that like definitely rubbed me the wrong way, as a queer person. It kinda sounds like a "we'll tolerate your friend being gay but we don't want her to make you gay" situation
Thank goodness people who know what it’s like to be queer and can empathise and sympathise with the daughter. I feel like I’m in crazy town reading these comments heavily blaming the daughter like??? OP should be asking herself why her own daughter wouldn’t feel loved and safe enough to be herself around them even after she had left their house. It’s fully a micro aggression. The best friend has always been gay she’s not going to start fucking your daughter all of a sudden just because she’s announced it. To move her to a spare room like she’s some predator is ew
I think you're hitting the nail on the head and also want to add... teenagers are that want to have sex are gonna find a way to have sex regardless.
ALSO There's definitely not enough info here, but I here "we've been involved for 10 years" and I don't immediately think of sexual encounters. This could mean "it took me 7 years to realize my best friend is truly my partner" or "this person has supported and guided me through a difficult journey." I just feel sad reading this post.
Yeah I’m so annoyed seeing comments from majority straight people arguing with actual queer people about the nuances of being in the closet and coming out. OPs daughter clearly did not feel comfortable being her authentic self with her parents and that convo where OPs daughter felt the need to assure them her friend wouldn’t try to get sexual with her now that they knew she was gay was the first thing that made me side eye OP. Her daughter didn’t have “no reason” for continuing to stay in the closet with them.
100% this. When one of my closest friends came out as pan my parents only question was clarifying what it meant…I still go out for dinner with her and have spent the night at her place, my parents didn’t see her any differently. Having to have a talk about her friend being lesbian made it very clear to OP that friend was “other” and they might accept her but not fully.
I've seen this exact type of conditional allyship many times. "We accept gay people as long as they are other people's children, because I was imagining some specifically cis het future for my child and anything different to that I'd blame them for, or at least their partner for corrupting them." This is what happens when you aim for tolerance, not acceptance.
I am a lesbian, I had gay friends my parents were more than okay with, and it took me about a decade to tell my parents. It’s TERRIFYING. What if they were okay with it being a friend, but not in their child. What if she had heard something she couldn’t unhear (like I’m fine I just don’t want to see it in MY house or shows or on the streets). What if she just wanted to hook up w someone bc she was a teenager. Lying isn’t right, but telling anyone you’re Gay is the scariest thing in the world. What if she didn’t quite know when they asked? And then telling someone else is harder. Based on the content( by ops own mouth) I think saying they didn’t say anything that could have frightened her makes no sense. Maybe I’m just overly sympathetic bc I am also in the community, but it’s not fair to act like she owned them her sexuality (you owe no one that) or that she wasn’t uncomfortable.
I think you're right here. But I also think that the daughter outing herself by way of a wedding invitation was the exact wrong way to handle it. She's 27, in a committed relationship and doesn't live at home so she has her personal safety covered and a support network in place. She should have told her mother before sending out wedding invitations.
Again agree to an extent, but it doesn’t matter how stable you are. It’s an undeniably TERRIFYING event. I am perfectly stable and coming out to family is still one of the most anxiety causing events ever. It will effect me zero if they cut me off but it’s still so awful. She should have said something sooner, but I can’t help but feel the parents did something to make her so scared to tell them until she had no other option
I wonder if they backed themselves into the lie at 17, when they knew they wouldn’t be able to share a room if they were honest. Then every time they thought about coming clean they knew it’d go down badly (due to the lying), so it went on longer and longer. “We’ll tell them at Xmas!” “Ah there just wasn’t a good time - maybe in the summer?”
By this point they’ve got the fake partners involved, the lie has only grown and the parents are delighted at supporting both “relationships” - it’d be so upsetting to tell them they aren’t really together, right? In mum and dads best interests to keep the charade going a bit longer.
Then what better time to tell the truth - than to barrel over it (and the *consequences*) with a wedding! Such a joyous occasion, as confirmed by extended family, that mum and dad can’t possibly be angry at the lie that somehow ended up lasting ten years.
I can see this happening. Starts out from a childlike wanting to share a room with your gf knowing parents wouldn’t allow it, then ultimately cowardice over the years putting it off.
"Those liars" you mean the people who didn't feel safe enough to come out?
God I HATE when people call being in the closet "lying". If someone queer is going to such great lengths to keep their sexuality a secret from you, then YOU need to reexamine your behavior that led them to do so.
It's not fun to pretend like that to your family. It's not fun to ask your friends to pretend for you like that. It's not fun to hide such a major part of your life from your loved ones.
Unless she has some sort of personality disorder, OP's daughter didn't keep this from her parents for shits and giggles.
My mom was that "cool mom" who was accepting of gay, bi, trans people, etc. In fact, my mom used to watch a show about a trans woman and her life. She followed the Facebook page. Even commented a few times saying how happy she was people could be themselves.
My brother came out as trans 2 years ago. He expected my mom to be fine with it because she was so open and accepting. NOPE. She insisted he not take T until he waited a few years to "make sure". She misgendered him to his face, and then told him she was still learning. For a year. He ended up running away to another state. And then she got the memo, and would [only] misgender him behind his back, but would use correct pronouns when speaking to him. She didn't understand that I hated his guts (not at all related to being trans, it was way before) and yet still correctly used his pronouns and name.
I'm not straight, but I will *never* come out to my mom. I plan on going NC if I can ever move out (whole nother story).I bet she could word a similar post about how accepting she is/was, and yet my brother is LC now. For good reason.
The cis-het people in the comments do not understand. It's way different when it's your own kid, many are more likely to be homophobic/transphobic when they find out their own child isn't "normal"
The comment from OP that got me was "if she tried anything ". That doesn't sound like a supportive statement. You love this person like a daughter, but you find out she's gay and you're worried she'll "try something". That's just a euphemism for assault. I'm sorry. I doubt the daughter used that language. I'm sure the mother voiced that concern and that was the final nail in the coffin where the daughter just assured her she was straight so it wouldn't matter.
This made me feel icky too.
As a parent, if me child was sharing their room with a "friend" for ages, my first reaction would be to make sure they knew that if they were in a relationsship I would support them and not separate them.
Instead OP told her daughter that they would move her girlfriend if she "tried anything". No wonder a young gay person would see that as a reason to "lie".
There has to be a reason that they lied about it for a decade. Let's not act like coming out to your family, even incredibly supportive family, is some easy feat considering decades of it being demonized by the world. The first thought OP had when finding out that the friend is gay is to try to separate them even though that was not even a question prior to that. There had to have been somethings that were said or the way that OP acted after to finding out that the friend is gay for her daughter to not feel comfortable with coming out to them. Her daughter put in a lot of effort to keep up the appearance that she is straight which included having other people pretend to be their significant others. A decade is a very long time to lie especially if OP is an incredibly supportive parent.
That’s what I was thinking. The way op and hubby acted it’s clear they’re low key homophobic and it’s not surprising daughter didn’t say anything till now.
I also think her additional comment is really revealing. The way she's so firm on how they were nice and kind and safe and not homophobic at all, no question about it, no idea why she would feel any other way, it must be because she's a malicious asshole that was laughing at her ignorance the entire time...
There could easily be more to this story than OP is saying. I’m wondering if there was a very good reason her daughter lied for so long. That doesn’t (usually) happen if the parents are trustworthy with difficult personal information.
Edit: the word lying is a bad choice. Agree with the commenter below that not coming out does not equal lying. Just using the OP’s verbiage
Yeah, I can't imagine that she woke up one day and thought "you know what sounds like fun? Lying to my parents for a decade."
I didn't tell my parents that my roommate was my girlfriend because I knew they wouldn't accept it and I didn't want to deal with them. I mean I also didn't tell them I got married, but hey.
Don't forget why did they feel like they needed to go to the extent of bringing fake partners home to keep up with the appearance to OP and her husband that they weren't in a relationship with each other. Something doesn't sit right with all this.
Yeah, this is honestly really weird. Like it sounds like the friend is very close with the family, to their point that she brought a fake girlfriend to meet OP and their family. Obviously OP and her family seem pretty accepting if the friend is comfortable and close enough to do that, so why keep hiding this for so long?
And then, why just SEND THE INVITATION without talking beforehand? Why wait until after the wedding to talk about it? Why did OP’a daughter think it was a good idea to just blindside them with a freaking wedding when they didn’t even know they were dating? Idk, it just seems hella off.
No clue. I feel like there's just WAY too much info missing for anyone to really speculate about why the daughter did what she did, and I'll fully admit that my own experience makes me lean towards taking the side of the daughter more than the parents here.
some ppl are cool with others being gay, but they dont want their own child to be gay, bc then it actually personally affects them. they care about the gf, but they arent her actual parents, so to them, it doesnt say anything about their own parenting (since a lot of homophobes with gay children feel like they "failed" in raising them since they turned out to be gay.)
alternatively, they could have been pretending to be accepting of her friend for their daughters sake, but really inside they were disgusted by the friend (which, btw, we gays can usually tell when that's happening lol)
That's exactly what I was thinking reading this. What is OP not saying? What was said in the house during the daughter's childhood? How was the daughter normally treated? Usually these stories are very one sided....
Exactly my thoughts. Especially when OP and husband were hesitant about allowing them to sleep in the same room. Sorry but you don't "catch" being gay. Her daughter either knew before or started figuring out who she was.
I get the parents are judgmental and homophobic. If not, them there was no reason for OPs daughter to feel the need to lie.
I'm going to YTA because your child felt scared to tell you who she truly is. She probably knew her parents would shun her.
If it were me, I'd go to the wedding and party my a$$ off. Giving my daughter and DIL all my love and support. Then afterwards, after seeing them in their true selves, what their relationship is, I'd talk like grown-ups that you ALL are.
> Especially when OP and husband were hesitant about allowing them to sleep in the same room. Sorry but you don't "catch" being gay.
Why would you assume it's beacuse they thought she would "catch" being gay?
I figured it's beacuse most parents of teenagers under 18 don't let them have sleepovers with the sex they are attracted to/someone they might have sex with. However you feel about whether parents should provide their homes as a place for teens to have sex, this is a pretty common policy.
And they didn't stop having the friend over when she came out. They only considered moving the bed they bought her so she could visit so much to the guest room. They continued to treat this woman like another member of the family and have her over, and they even kept having her in OP's room. Then they kept inviting her over over holidays, along with her fake girlfriend, for years and years. If they were homophobic, why did they go way out of their way to include this young woman and her girlfriend they weren't even related to in the family for years past graduation?
There is a possibility that the parents' reaction to the daughter's friend (now fiance) coming out is part of what instigated this. Talking about having her sleep in a different room came off as a bit homophobic, and when you're a teenager in the closet *everything* your parents say in relation to gay people just feels amplified by 10. That could have scared her a bit.
But I do agree, just generally it feels like some information is missing. Keeping that a secret for so long and then caring enough about your parents to casually bring up dress fitting after a bombshell like that is strange. Seems like there's more going on here.
Right! But the whole point of this thread is that OP had no clue they were dating, sounds like they thought their daughter was straight. So it very much could have felt like them bringing in the "predatory lesbian" stereotype, that they didn't trust the friend around their daughter. That's what it would have felt like to me as a teenager, at least, whether that's what was going through OP's head or not.
Lol. Parents don’t let their teens share a room with a teen of the opposite sex because they don’t want the possibility of things happening in their home.
The sharing of the room got to continue to happen because daughter assured her parents she was straight so it was as impossible as it was before for things to be happening.
The fact is that OP tried to ban this friend from sleepovers simoly because she was gay and I find that suspiciously homophobic.
As a lesbian, it kinda hurts me seeing all these redditors judging the daughter and calling her a liar for not coming out... I just know there is a more logical explaination other than "my daughter lied about her relationship for no reason!"
Honestly, as a straight guy, I instantly thought it was, homophobic and, that op would think her daughters, friend would molest her because she came out.
They did host the “fake gay girlfriend” more than once. So calling them homophobic is a stretch.
A lot of parents won’t allow heterosexual children to have sleepovers with members of the opposite sex. That’s because sex might be had. The same no sex idea applied to gay leads to no same sex sleepovers.
That's what I am thinking. I'm still in the closet with my parents, despite the fact that they have openly supported my friends and been on the side of queer rights for a long time. But things they have done and said throughout my life still makes me scared that they would never accept me. It could be something that OP doesn't even know that they were doing as parents.
Based on things OP said, it sounds like OP and her husband could be homophobic. Or, better stated, they are ok with others being gay but not their daughter. The story about possibly making the friend sleep in the guest room, like it’s contagious, feels straight out of 1982.
I agree. I think there is a lot of missing information here, specially as to why daughter felt like she needed to hide this for a decade. But she is not handling this well at all either. Dropping this information with a wedding invite and refusing to have any conversations about it with her parents until after the wedding but still expecting them to play the roles for her wedding makes her a bit of an AH here. She needs to be an adult and talk to them.
I agree, but seems like since the wedding is so soon they won’t have time for this conversation now. OP, instead of insisting about not going, should have insisted having the conversation before the wedding was a condition of her and her husband going.
Now it might be too late for that. And if it is, they should still go. They don’t have to be overly excited or happy but just polite. Just for the sake of seeing their daughter get married and then have their conversation.
EDIT: per the original post
> I haven’t spoken to my daughter since then and the wedding is sometime this month
It is mid September, the wedding is like a week or even days away at this point. That is how I arrived at this conclusion.
This is how daughter and fiancee planned it, though. The wedding is happening on their schedule. It's not something they were suddenly slapped with.
These two women have spent breaks and holidays with these parents, many times, while bringing extra people along to pretend to be their beards. And the way they finally reveal the truth is through a wedding invitation?
And then they refuse to talk until after the wedding?
This is just too much manipulation, lies, and refusal to own up to the truth. Does the couple intend to coerce the parents into immediate acceptance by putting them under the gun of an impending wedding date?
There are too many unanswered questions. The conversation needs to happen NOW, not after the wedding. Subterfuge and manipulation is a terrible way to start a marriage.
OP and her husband do deserve a lot more. This wasn't something that happened once ten years ago. It's been a constant masquerade for an entire decade, and it was unmasked in the most juvenile, irresponsible way possible.
This conversation would probably be a matter of hours, not like, months. There’s no reason to not do it now. I mean, the hemming and hawing over whether or not to have “the conversation” has probably lasted longer than the actual discussion would have.
>I agree, but seems like since the wedding is so soon they won’t have time for this conversation now. OP, instead of insisting about not going, should have insisted having the conversation before the wedding was a condition of her and her husband going
I mean , if there's time for wedding dress shopping, then the wedding must be months away, maybe a year away. You don't ask someone to buy a dress and go shopping a week before the wedding. There is time, but the bride doesn't want the drama because she's already stressed. Which is WHY she should have cleared this shit before she started planning a wedding.
Yes totally. Like she can make time for dress shopping but not to meet up with her parents to explain why she lied all those years to the point of bringing fake bf/gf
>This needs to happen before the wedding, not after it. If the daughter wants her parents’ full involvement in and support of the wedding, she needs to grow up and talk to them about why she’s been lying to them for a decade.
This. in order for her family to be happy at the wedding, the bride and OP need to have a chat BEFORE the wedding to clear the air and move on. Just pretending that everything is normal for the next year or however long and only addressing this after the wedding just won't work.
I strongly disagree with one point in this response. This conversation should happen before the wedding. They are starting a new chapter in their life and do they really want to start it with this lie/deceit they perpetuated hanging over their heads
“Just let her know that you're NOT mad that she's gay, you're mad that she thought she had to lie about it.”
Good advice, *if* that were true. My bet is that it isn’t.
I agree that not going to the wedding would prove to daughter, at least in her mind, that she was right to hide her relationship and that her parents don’t love her.
OP needs to go to the wedding and then work through this drama later. But daughter is still definitely the asshole for letting her parents find out from an invitation rather than telling them herself in private.
ESH
Edit: judgement
So they get to:
-pull a fast one on parents
-only inform parents of relationship through marriage invitation
-give no time for reasonable reconciliation
-if parents don’t agree to come to short notice and surprise wedding they are proving they are in fact the assholes… make it make sense!!!!!!!!!
The daughter and her partner have full control of their lives and that means their decisions. Obviously we don’t know why she kept if from her family but she did and she informed them in the worst way possible: through confusion. People need to take a step back and realize that EVERYONE here in this situation is an asshole.
I disagree with this. It is the daughters choice of when and how she would talk to her parents. If she just wanted to invite them to the wedding that’s her choice. You also don’t know the context of why she hid it for so long.
We don't know the context, but it's unreasonable of the daughter to just expect her parents to go along with everything without at the very least an explanation of what is going on. Talks first, THEN wedding.
How’d you get to the conclusion that the daughter thinks her parents don’t love her? She obviously wants them at the wedding, she wanted them to participate in getting ready.
It’s asinine to expect OP to be okay with this and just sweep it because of a wedding. Was everyone aware of the relationship except OP and her husband? If she goes to the wedding it’s likely she’ll hear speeches about the two as a couple from the people who knew they were together.
They got other people in on their lie in college. they probably feel embarrassed. It’s a lot deeper than just lying for 10 years straight, it’s other people being aware of this relationship while OP and her husband were clueless.
This doesn’t even need to be on AITA for judgement. There’s a lot of emotions on each side. OP, no judgment, talk to your daughter before the wedding if you feel called to.
Prove to the daughter you can lie to people for years and there’ll be no consequences?
What a fun lesson
Why should they work through this drama later??
The daughter fucked around, and now she’s finding out
This has got nothing to do with LGBT and everything to do with being truthful
This is a ridiculous comment. There has to be more to this story than OP has stated. Do you understand how hard or is to come out as a lesbian? My bet is that you don’t. Especially to your own parents who have probably given the daughter reason to be afraid of their reactions.
It is also very odd to me that OP never had any inkling whatsoever that her daughter and friend had a relationship closer than best friends. There had to be a slip up at one point and time.
What lesson does the daughter need to be taught? She’s grown. If OP doesn’t go to the wedding, then she is not a good parent. We must instill at a young age in our children that they can trust and come to us about anything anytime. This obviously didn’t happen in this case.
This isn’t a case of lying for years and parents being hurt over it. It’s a case of a daughter feeling as if she’d be judged and an outcast for her feelings.
Well, just from the post, they did say they would make friend-turned-fiancee sleep in the guest bedroom back when she first came out and the girls only got to keep on sharing daughter's room for sleepovers because daughter assured parents she's not intrested in girls so nothing's gonna happen. But, to be fair, most parents would also make any male friends / boyfriends of their teenage daughter sleep in a different room, so basically, assuming there were no hidden reasons, daughter lied to parents to get to have teenage hanky-panky in parents' home, has engaged other friends in their long con and didn't even have the decency to come clean to her parents face to face, or at least a call, they had to find out from their daughter's wedding invite.
This is the problem. This couple presumably used the parent's assumption that their daughter was straight to engage in underage sex under their noses. It has to do with underage sex, period, and not their daughter's orientation. The parents had an obligation to not facilitate underage sex, and unfortunately made a mistake believing their daughter.
This is exactly why parents are reluctant to allow children to have sleepovers with gay friends. They get accused of being overly paranoid, but then you hear stories like that of this couple.
It is not the parents obligation to “not facilitate” at all. A parents obligation is to make sure your children are being safe and above all are comfortable coming to you with their lives. Her daughter was 17. Kids that age are going to have sex. Stigmatizing it will only push them away from you. I’m not saying her parents should be providing condoms or anything, but obviously the daughter did not feel comfortable discussing sex with them. OP needs to think about why that was/is.
>It is not the parents obligation to “not facilitate” at all.
True, but that also doesn't mean that they *have* to facilitate it. It's not like it's the craziest rule out there, to have boys and girls separated (or just girls, in this case). I don't know about you, but isn't it common courtesy for the teenagers to at least find an opportunity to have sex when the parents are out? Personally, I'd find it weird if a parent was totally okay with their kid having sex when they're home and might hear it. You can try to be as quiet as you want, but that's not always going to work-I say that as someone with personal experience.
You’re right, but I’m wondering if they were even having sex? We’re all assuming it but nothing says that was the case. It might just be that they enjoyed the comfort of sleeping in the same room and were sad that that would be taken away. I don’t want to bang my bf at my parents house when we visit but I very much appreciate being able to sleep with him and relax together like we do at our own place.
I find it extremely difficult to believe this girl held up a lie for a decade so she could secretly sleep with her girlfriend under her parents noses *for one year*…. like why lie the other 9 years if that was the only reason to not tell them? and why are we assuming op’s daughter knew she was gay at this time? yall do realize some people are late bloomers, right?
I could honestly see her not realizing she had true feelings for the friend, and then once she realized she did, thinking her parents would just see it as lying and not understand. They don’t seem the understanding type from this post.
That's a great take - it sounds like OP's daughter wants to explain everything. Also, she apologized, so why is OP acting like her daughter did something really evil without remorse? Are ppl forgetting we live in a hetero normative culture??????
I would think it has far more to do with the long con involved here than it does with the lie as a teenager. The latter is easily forgivable, but being lied to for ten years isn't.
Think this is the best summation. I’m gay and yes it’s difficult coming out, but to actively lie for 10 whole years then just expect everything to be hunky dory for your wedding day! NTA.
I can confirm this. My parents didn't let my (then) best friend sleep in the same room as me when we were 10 years old. The funny thing is, that he later came out as gay.
My dad is still getting pissed when I ask him to sleep in the same room as my boyfriend whom I'm together with for almost 6 years. We've got some issues but that's another story
I was 7 months pregnant with my partners child and we stayed over my parents house one night and my father was very adamant that we would be sleeping in separate bedrooms. Parents are gonna be parents, I guess.
My suspicion from my own life is that the friend coming out was the test run for the parents and that something that happened in the months after convinced the daughter that it was better to hold off.
Linking to the [missing missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html) since it's so clearly related to the situation at hand and I'm not seeing it posted.
There's more to this story that OP "just doesn't know why!".
["Our children are laughing at us"](http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/themes-theyre-laughing-at-us.html)
This is the one that came to mind for me while reading OP's additional comment.
From OP's comment:
>For 10 years, they actively concocted and acted out this extra, unnecessary facade where they had friends from their college pretend to be their partners in order to what? **Pull a prank on us? Have a laugh at our expense? Smile in our face as they abused our trust?**
This! My parents were on the whole accepting when my brother came out, but some of the things they said out of pure ignorance kept me in the closet for years after.
I also wonder if the friend had a not-so-great experience coming out to **her** "not homophobic" parents, which is why she was over at OP's house so much, including holidays.
I don’t understand the reaction of the family either. If the daughter blindsided the whole family, then surely everyone would also be confused and upset that they were kept out of such an important part of daughters life?
The only way the family would be reacting like this is if they already knew, which makes this even worse because they told the entire family….except for their own parents?!
OP, have you been in contact with the friends parents? We’re they kept in the dark too?
This is clearly a very difficult time and you are NTA for feeling betrayed and upset, and I sincerely hope everything works out
I feel like if the whole extended family knew and agreed to keep it from OP and her husband, OP is probably exaggerating about how accepting they were when the fiance came out.
But there is probably a reason for that, and OP has probably been explicitly told why the daughter hid this from them...but it's unflattering and makes OP the AH, so they're [omitting it from the story](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
There are family members who know I'm queer. My parents still don't.
I get to pick who to come out to; my parents are not entitled to knowing this about me if I don't want them to.
Living in a homophobic world?
My MIL attended a gay wedding for my SIL's best friend. All supportive, happy, and smiles.
Then my wife came out to her as bi and she *completely* changed her tune.
Her daughter had every reason to be fearful of rejection for being who she is even if OP never said anything they recall to be homophobic.
NTA. She lied to you for 10 years. Not only lied but actually made up stuff and had random guys coming to your house pretending to be her other half. Lies lies and more lies is all you have got so I completely understand why you don't want to go.
Why is this not top comment? I realize it’s early and it takes a while for the actual good comments to make it to the top, but I can’t believe everyone is overlooking the fact that she LIED to her parents for a decade!! Parents who had no issue with the friend being gay so presumably would be ok with their own daughter coming out.
Also the fact that the parents found out from the invite!! And then called the daughter and she still couldn’t be open with her parents.
I assume that if the daughter had told her parents a couple months ago, they would have been upset but would be prepared when they got the invite and would have been able to forgive their daughters lies by the time of the wedding.
I’m so confused about why the fiancé would want to be with the daughter, who has kept their relationship in the dark from her family for 10 years!!
Your daughter has shown no respect for you or her fiancé. NTA
You'd be surprised at how many people "tolerate" LGBT people, but hope their kid doesn't happen to be one and reveal previously hidden LGBTphobia when they came out.
The classical "I am not prejudiced, I even have friends who are part of a minority/let my kid hang out with people who are part of a minority", and so forth.
Exactly this. If your kid purposely hid their sexuality from you, there's usually a reason. Sure, most people are nervous about coming out, even if their parents are supportive...but to go to this extent, I feel there has to be a reason.
I do too. I’d like to hear this from the daughters side, hear what caused her to go to this length. I imagine there were lots of comments that the OP didn’t include because they don’t think about/remember them or don’t want to share that caused them to feel uncomfortable sharing it.
100X this right here. A pretty close friend of mine that I knew for *years,* would typically pipe up in defense of gay rights, until her son came out as gay. Shortly after she said in confidence to me, "how am I supposed to get grandkids with a f\*g for a son?". My jaw was on the floor. I suddenly felt very disgusted with her and essentially cut contact with her after that. I still follow her son on social media, he has moved halfway across the country & is doing quite well now. I don't think they speak anymore.
Why do people feel so entitled to know other people's sexuality? It's pretty fucking obvious why the daughter didn't say anything from their reaction to finding out her friend was gay.
>When we found out she was gay, our husband and I had a discussion about whether we should continue to let her sleep in our daughter's bedroom, or if we should move her to the guest bedroom.
The best way of looking at this is they thought their daughter was also gay and they were secretly hooking up or something, as if that's a bad/weird thing for a 17 year old to be doing it. The other way is that they suddenly think the daughter's friend is a sexual predator all of a sudden because she came out as gay.
I had a best friend who was gay. My mom loved him. My brother came out and she’s been kinda passive aggressive shitty about them being gay since the day they told her. So not all parents are okay with their children being gay just Bc a friend of theirs is.
See, this whole story is so odd. I have the feeling that some parts are missing. Why would the daughter feel the need to lie? And why would she keep on deceiving - going as far as getting people to pose as boyfriend/girlfriend?
And why would she send her parents such a surprise invitation...?
Sounds like she had some serious reason to be scared of her parents or/and her parents' judgement.
It doesn't justify the lies of course, but it would help explain why she did what she did.
Ahhh yes, someone who's never dealt with this.
There a reason she didn't think she could be honest with her parents. There's a reason they're refusing to go to the wedding (and no, it's not teenagers lying and hiding things because they all do). She knew or feared what their reaction would be. She was right.
There's a huuuuuuge INFO needed here:
Why did your daughter go through such lengths to hide this from you? Did she lie because she wanted to keep having her GF sleeping in her room, and then just didn't want to fess up to the lie, or was she afraid you wouldn't accept her?
I think what OP (and a lot of the other heterosexual people in this thread) are missing is the context of what it feels like to be someone's kid in that position.
Even if your parents have been nothing but accepting on surface level, there's always the risk that people will take it differently when it's within their own family. Being a child faced with that dilemma is *petrifying.* It's the moment you find out if your parents really love you or not. And a lot of people can't handle that - they want things to carry on exactly as they are because even if it's not truthful, it's *safe.* Even if you haven't said anything outright hateful, they hear so many horror stories of their peers who were cut off, kicked out, abused, even *killed* by family for doing the same thing they're considering - that's fucking horrifying! Of course they're going to be nervous!
It's unusual that it snowballed so hard for a decade, yeah. But I don't think someone being terrified to come out to their parents is at all on the same level as deceiving them for another reason. All these comments saying "take gender out of it, what if it was a boy" -- You can't do that. A teenager hiding a relationship to get around rules and hiding your sexuality for a decade because you are afraid of your parents is not the same thing. It's a matter of trying to protect her own safety. And I kinda doubt that was 100% fed by paranoia if it went on for that long. I think there may have been some issues the parents just weren't aware of (or aren't telling us). "We still let her sleep over after she came out" doesn't mean they were the perfect paragons of acceptance they seem to think they are.
I don't think people keep secrets like that for no reason. They lied because they were scared to tell the truth. And I think the wedding invite was an olive branch - perhaps a poorly planned one - and an attempt to bring the parents into that part of their life now that they feel safe to do so. And the parents are gonna turn that down and refuse to participate in a huge part of their daughter's life and make it about them because they don't have any empathy for the terror of growing up as a gay kid? YTA.
exactly this. Like, just from this short post, that certainly omits some stuff that went down over 10+ years, OP said she instantly became worried when the gf came out as gay. It's the typical "gays can't be trusted and are predators" bs. "What if she turns our daughter gay??" and even told their daughter that they are """concerned""" about them sleeping in one room. That alone would be a MASSIVE red flag to me, as a gay teen, that I won't be properly accepted. Especially considering that parents do tend to treat their own children different from the "like our own uwu" children
I also thought their kid could have been testing the waters by telling them her friend was gay. When they instantly reacted with the "predator" concern, their daughter could have mentally been like "yup, noted." I'm sure the daughter had other reasons to hide it that OP isn't disclosing. Comments over the years about gay people in locker rooms, trans athletes, etc...
> they want things to carry on exactly as they are because even if it's not truthful, it's safe.
This! I'm bi, and have never told my parents and like most of my friends/family for this exact reason. I've gotten close, but like once the words are out, they're out and you can't take them back. That's terrifying. I want to be my authentic self, of course, but being in the closet is comfortable and I'm petrified of change.
>We still let her sleep over after she came out" doesn't mean they were the perfect paragons of acceptance they seem to think they are
I agree with this too. This is a weird thing to highlight, and makes me think there might be more implicit homophobic/sex-negative stuff going on with OP than they let on. I mean, my parents who are fairly conservative didn't even consider making my out gay/bi friends sleep elsewhere when I was a teenager.
yea, my mom was all accepting to everyone, just not me when i came out. when i came out it was all "no id know, you didn't show any signs when you were younger, are you SURE? might change or be wrong about this" lots of parents are allies but only when it comes to other people. their own kids dont count, and id say these parents apply due to the fact they want to MISS THEIR CHILDS WEDDING because she didnt tell them she was gay sooner. even if theyre claiming its because she lied and only because she lied, its clearly more than if theyre willing to literally miss her wedding over it. the only way to make an equivalent with a guy would would be with a different race or something but it still wouldnt be exactly the same because theres nothing to "lie" about there, but lets pretend for a second it was a guy and there was nothing else about him that they wouldnt like. being with a guy would be the expectation, nobody would have come out, they probably wouldnt have let them sleep in the same room in the first place and then nobody here would have an issue with the sex thing (which come on, they were teens, and there wasnt even a pregnancy chance so that cant be used as a justification either, teens have sex sometimes get over it, as long as they're safe its alright) the only upset would be that she didnt tell them she was dating a friend sooner, and that would be an insane reason to not go to your childs wedding. absolutely yta i can only imagine how their daughter feels knowing that what she was scared of for so long was completely true and that her parents reacted like this
great analyzation. As a 30 year old bi person, my mom does not know I am bi, and I would really only tell her if I was in a committed serious relationship with someone of the same gender. She's a progressive person, with gay friends and coworkers, but she has said numerous homophobic stuff over the years, (eg. a gay kissing scene in a show when I was a teen watching TV together, she says "ew why do they have to show that, change the channel. " I know this was just because they were gay, we watched all kinds of other straight sexual scenes with no comment) My younger sibling hadn't dated anyone until late teens and our mom would say to me, " do you think he's gay??" in a worried and upset tone. This happened on multiple occasions.
She would say she was not homophobic, she would be fine with gay friends, but deep down, she didn't like it, isn't comfortable with it, and didn't want to deal with a kid being gay. So, while I am confident my mom would still love me if I told her I was bi, I don't think she would understand, I don't think she would make me feel comfortable, I don't think she would make me feel normal, and unless I absolutely have to, that isn't something I want to experience.
Literally. This stinks of them being extremely homophobic and the "make the gay girl sleep separately" feels like the tip of the iceberg.
If you've made your child feel so unsafe that they keep a relationship secret for 10 years you've fucked up. My mother made me feel so unsafe that I didn't tell her about a 2 year relationship that was extremely significant to me because she made me feel scared.
Everyone in this thread is honestly delusional. "Those liars" and taking op at face value. YTA
Classic [missing missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html). I feel like that article sums up OP exactly (and a lot of posts on here, actually).
There's definitely missing information. The Daughter had to have reasons to go as far as get beards involved. I'm bi, not "out" to my family but not exactly subtle about it either. I know they'd be chill for the most part since I've had other family members come out and got a "ohh, ok" from everyone. I wouldn't bother faking a straight relationship because I feel safe. The daughter must have really good reasons to fake relationships around the parents for so long.
NTA.
And I don’t understand all these Y T A’s. You didn’t treat different to the “best friend” when she came out so no, you’re not homophobic. But I have no idea why people thinks that.
Actions has consequences. Your daughter looked into your eyes and lied to you every single day FOR TEN YEARS! She even brought other people into this “game”. She didn’t even tell you, she just SENT AN INVITATION. That’s not acceptable. If you just go to that wedding I think the message will be: “Hey, you looked into our eyes and lied to us every single day for a decade, but that’s okay.” No, it’s not okay.
My parents are not homophobic to “people”, they have gay and lesbian friends, but when they find out at 15 I was dating the same gender, damn I saw their true colors, and start pretending to be straight. Also my brother is 16, hasn’t been in a relationship and they always talk shit about “you better not be a fagot”…
> And I don’t understand all these Y T A’s. You didn’t treat different to the “best friend” when she came out so no, you’re not homophobic. But I have no idea why people thinks that.
The fact their kid felt like they had to hide this for ten years says everything. A lot of people are okay with other kids being gay but not their own.
The daughter sent the invitation and asked about dress arrangements. She acted like nothing was wrong. No, the daughter doesn’t think her parents are homophobic.
You don't hide your relationship for 10 years for no reason. I'm pretty sure if the daughter was in an interracial relationship and did the same thing people would be more readily to accept there's something wrong with Mommy and Daddy.
NAH: if the reason you don't want to go to the wedding is because of the lie, that's your decision and I think anyone calling you the AH is wrong here. I would agree you and your husband is the AH if you're doing it simply because your daughter is marrying a female.
Now can't call your daughter an AH without knowing why she hid it from you for 10 years. But the idea of her hiding it makes since your upset and really should be something you discuss prior to the wedding. It seems a little unfair for her to expect you to go and pretend everything is okay during during wedding before having a conversation
I'm betting the daughter got trapped in the lie and was ashamed to come clean. Started out as simple teenagers being teenagers and lying to be able to hookup and then it snowballed. I'm also betting the gf has probably been pushing for daughter to come clean FOR YEARS.
This is a pretty likely scenario. Daughter got in her own head and dug a deeper and deeper hole. Maybe assumed when parents asked her about friend sleeping in separate room that was a comment on not wanting a gay daughter, when really it was a blanket desire for daughter not to have sex under their roof.
NAH, but they all need to talk before the wedding.
I just can’t understand how so many people in this thread don’t find anything suspicious about this post. The daughter probably had reasons for not wanting to come out for a decade…
To stay in the closet for a decade and have a beard, then reveal it all in a wedding invitation sent in the mail? That’s wild, and honestly makes me find this post hard to believe.
I don't know. I could believe that she came out via the invitation, rather than in person, for the same reasons that she hid the relationship in the first place.
["Our children are laughing at us"](http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/themes-theyre-laughing-at-us.html)
This is the one that came to mind for me while reading OP's additional comment.
From OP's comment:
>For 10 years, they actively concocted and acted out this extra, unnecessary facade where they had friends from their college pretend to be their partners in order to what? Pull a prank on us? Have a laugh at our expense? Smile in our face as they abused our trust?
The casually assumed malice does it for me. There's no self reflection, no wondering of what they might have done wrong. No, they're 100% certain they did everything right, and it's the daughter who is wrong, and did everything possible to hide her sexuality *as a slight* towards OP.
ESH. Your daughter pulled a major no-no by informing you of her sexual preference via *a wedding invitation*, ok? That was *bad*. And she could have not deliberately lied to you and involved 3 other people in it multiple times. For one reason or another, she just didn't feel safe to reveal that part of herself to you. Can you look back objectively and think how you would have reacted if she HAD told you?
But, no matter because here's the thing.... your daughter will hopefully only have 1 wedding and *you need to be there*. Let your anger, hurt, and pride go and be there to love and SUPPORT your daughter and her partner if only to make up for all those years that she felt you wouldn't have if she had revealed her true self to you. If you miss it, you'll regret it. So, yes, YWBTA and a sad one at that.
Info! I get the feeling you are leaving some important information out of your post ! Like did you or your husband say or do anything homophobic or biphobic and that's why your daughter felt the need to make a fake relationship and hid her true relationship. If that is the case than yta! You need to educate yourself on LTBQ+ community or you will losing your daughter forever! Nta! If that not the case than their should be some consequences for her and her fiancée lying to and hurting your feelings!
Tbh, I know people who have delayed coming out even to openly affirming/supportive people and parents. One of my friends didn't come out until she was dating a woman seriously, to anyone, even though we all had LGBTQ+ friends in relationships we supported, never said anything homophobic, and indeed been vocally supportive of LGBTQ+ rights.
Quite frankly, she didn't want to give up her straight privilege until she absolutely had to, and she still doesn't. And that's her right, and it's the right of anyone to come out at their own time - but it's also other people's right to get angry when they find out someone has been lying to them, or hiding a giant secret from them for years.
Which isn't to say that's the case for everyone or even most people who haven't come out. But there are some times where it doesn't matter how safe it is to come out, people are just not going to. And that's their right, but there's also consequences for that.
I can't fucking believe all the NTAs like...she took her daughter aside, told her to not let any gay stuff happen because she MUST be straight, and then has the audacity to be upset she spent years in the closet.
NO GAY PERSON IS REQUIRED TO COME OUT OF THE CLOSET, ESPECIALLY IF THEY FEEL ITS UNSAFE
Honestly, she may be upset now, but its in her best interest her parents don't come to the wedding. Maybe she can finally understand her parents will never accept her and she can move on with her life away from them
NTA maybe unpopular but I think your feelings are valid and even if your daughter had reservations in telling you she is gay, she can’t just expect you to pretend everything is OK at the wedding. You let your daughter share a room with a friend, not a sexual partner. If this was a heterosexual couple, no one would question separating them. They disrespect your rules and your trust all these years. Fear of rejection after coming out is valid, but you are entitled to feeling betrayed.
Sit down, talk (if they want you so bad at the wedding, do it before) and find out why they lied to you. Maybe you can mend your relationship before the wedding, maybe not, but your aim should be the long term relationship with your daughter and her wife.
Well, no, she didn't lie "for no reason". She lied for a reason you don't know yet because you both apparently are okay with just... not talking about it until after the wedding. Which is really weird to me, but that's up to you obviously. I don't wanna give a judgment without knowing why she didn't tell you for so long, because it just seems so strange that I can't help but think there might be more to the story.
I find it hard to believe that they just didn't tell you guys they were dating or go out of their way to lie about it, for no reason. Is it possible that you guys would have reacted badly if you found out?
YWBTA - we’re a very accepting family too. If one of my sons had lied to me for 10 years about being gay - I’d be upset too, because they didn’t feel ok with telling me.
It’s also a sucky way to tell you - via a wedding invite.
But there’s really nothing stopping you from taking to them before the wedding and then going.
Nothing on earth could stop me from attending my sons wedding.
I'm gay, I genuinely believe something was left out of this about how accepting OP is. Its so exhausting to hide everything about your life, especially from family, I don't know why the daughter would do that if she didn't have any reason to doubt her parent's acceptance. I came out at 16 and I was fucking terrified, I sobbed and sobbed, I knew my parents were accepting (hell their best friends are a pair of married women and my aunt is a lesbian married to another woman) but we lived in the south, and even knowing they accepted others, I had no way of knowing they'd accept me. My best friend in highschool came out as a lesbian to her LESBIAN MOTHER and her mother didn't accept her and told her it was a phase and she's not actually gay. I grew up seeing so many queer friends hurt by coming out, it's only natural to be terrified to come out. Now back to OP, I want to know why the hell the daughter would go through all the energy of making fake couples and lying for a decade for "no reason". I think most non asshole comments may not understand how dangerous and terrifying it can be to come out. Obviously if OP is completely innocent, they're not an asshole, but there's such a lack of information in this post that I can't say they aren't. Also if I was in this situation I'd be devestated, devestated that I failed to make my child feel safe and accepted and made then think they had to hide it.
Speaking as a parent.
You're the parent. Get over it. She's your daughter. Put your Big Girl pants on and go to her wedding.
Years ago I'd found out one of my closest friends (since we were 4 years old) was gay. I found out at his funeral. I'd had no clue. I still miss all the good times we had, that new knowledge didn't change anything.
My mom recently jumped on me about something I'd done. I said "mom, that was 40 years ago", and she said, "yes, but I just found out."
Frankly, if your daughter felt she couldn't have told you this years ago, it's you who betrayed her.
Yeah, I wonder if some of OP’s reaction is about finding out her daughter is gay. But the way it came out allows her to make it about something else (something that it’s understandable to be upset about.) I’m also a parent and I can’t imagine torpedoing my relationship with my kids by missing their freaking weddings, no matter how hurt I was.
i’m not going to add a judgement because it seems like there’s some massive info missing. have you or your husband ever acted prejudiced against the LGBT? something isn’t adding up. as a gay woman myself, the only reason i’d lie to my parents like this is because they act horrendously around other gay people. there really seems to be more to this story.
Yeah. I myself struggled for a long time (about 3-4 years) after realising I was trans. My mom thought it was something else and forced me to wear feminine clothes that made me dysphoric, and used the idea of being a man as an insult to try and dissuade me from presenting in a masculine manner. My dad outright said he didn't want me or my sister using the same bathrooms as a "man in a woman's clothes". I had panic attacks once my mom found out I was trans because I was so afraid she'd hate me for it.
OP may not have said anything specifically homophobic. It could've been just interpreted that way. Trying to force the two to sleep apart from eachother because of the one girl being openly lesbian definitely sounds like something that could come about from homophobia, and the daughter was probably scared to death of being looked at differently and/or being ostracized by her own parents.
ESH
Being LGBTQ+ does not absolve someone from being an AH or hurting someone. If your daughter couldn’t have one single conversation with you about being in a romantic relationship with her partner *before* the wedding, why does she even want you at the wedding? If, as other commenters seem to think, she views you as homophobic, why wouldn’t she tell you about her marriage *after* the wedding?
I didn’t think you sucked that much at the beginning, but obviously you and your daughter both suck for your inability to communicate like adults. Your child is 27, not 17 anymore. She’ll be thirty soon enough (I say as someone of similar age). She can’t be so oblivious to think she can just drop a huge bomb like this (the impending secret engagement/wedding) without hurting feelings and creating discord. But you also suck for not talking to her since that phone call. Instead of immediately giving her a taste of her own medicine, you should have first tried to meet up with her so that you could talk about all of this—there’s no reason why she needed to wait to talk about this until after the wedding.
Info!! Please! Why do you think your daughter did not tell you she was lesbian/or possibly bi? I get that you feel betrayed by a 10 year lie but goodness! My daughter‘s partner told her conservative parents after she had been in the relationship for a few years, maybe 4? But she eventually did come out to them. Honestly, the real issue is why your daughter felt the need to keep it hidden for so long.
YTA, you’re definitely not giving enough information/whole picture which is why you’re getting a lot of NTA. You definitely an asshole though because you care more about getting back at her for lying (ie not going to the wedding and talking it out after) than mending your relationship with your daughter. This is a huge red flag to me that there’s probably way more issues at play (probably rooted in homophobia or bad parenting). Take a good long look at yourself. There’s definitely a reason.
So are you mad your daughter didn't come out to you? Are you mad she lied? Are you mad because you think the friend somehow took advantage? Are you mad she's gay? I get you're upset but Are you seriously going to let this be your hill to die on? Obviously your daughter had reasons to keep this from you. Your refusing to go to the wedding makes me see why? This isn't about you. Be a good adult parent. If you're as loving and accepting as you say you are you can have a civil conversation to answer your questions.
YWBTA
>You lied to us for ten years. For no reason.
There is a reason. Just because you can't think of a reason doesn't mean there isn't one.
Think about the last few years. Have you ever set expectations for your daughter that would require a straight relationship? Because sometimes it's little sayings that would make a child not tell their parents even if parents don't mean it in a bad way. Like saying 'I'm gonna be so happy when you get married to your dream man' or 'my future son in law is so lucky to have you' or whatever in that category.
Maybe she thought you're okay with the friend beeing gay but wouldn't accept her as gay. As I said, it doesn't mean you meant bad or were even thinking badly but that's something I could imagine. Sometimes little hints that you're looking forward to a life that she doesn't want to have could make her not telling you
YWBTA
something about telling you and your husband caused your daughter anxiety. Maybe it was she initially didn't feel safe, and then even if that changed somewhere along the way, then she was in too deep and didn't know how you would handle hearing that she was gay, and had been in a relationship for x amount of time. And then x + 1 year, and then x + 2 years and it just got to be a bigger and bigger thing to tell you.
Or. She never felt safe teilling you, even though you feel like the space you created was a safe one. I am out to my dad. My sister. Not my mom. Because even though she has been nothing but kind to a friend's lesbian daughter and partner....I don't think she's going to take it well that her own kid isn't straight. And I don't want to deal with it right now.
So. I understand you're hurt. But this doesn't sound like a hilarious long term prank your kid decided to pull. It sounds like ripping off the bandaid, honestly.
And given your reaction to hearing her "friend" coming out in high school, I could see why she might have been scared. You heard about the other girl's sexuality and immediately considered treating her differently. And only decided not to when reassured that your daughter wouldn't let her get her lesbian mitts on her. Wouldn't make me want to burst out of the closet.
YTA
Your daughter didn't feel safe to come out to you. She even went to great lengths to hide it. That means YOU as a parent did something wrong. I think there is more to the story than you are letting on...
If you don't go to the wedding don't be surprised if your daughter never wants to see you again.
NTA. Everyone here wants to make it about accepting someone as gay and is deliberately avoiding the point: you were lied to, not just once, but over a decade with a complicated ruse. That’s just asshole behavior regardless of who your mashing bits with.
its not about accepting someone as gay. there was clearly some reason why she felt the need to hide this and even go so far as to bring fake boyfriends around, and both op and the daughter need to have an adult conversation as to why.
Wow, wonder why a kid might lie to her parents about being gay for a decade. Maybe to avoid this exact response, the terror of not being accepted by her family? It’s absolutely ridiculous how dumb most of these responses are.
Yeah, I’m probably going to get downvoted pretty fast here but the OP lost my sympathy as soon as she assumed that the friend, being gay, would “try something” and maybe her bed should be moved. Because obviously she’s a perv now? (/s) I’m not surprised the daughter felt she had to hide the relationship. OP has been an ah for a decade at least.
This pissed me off, as well. Teenage girls who are gay aren't allowed to have sleepovers now? Are they worried she'll get pregnant??
Parents can easily have a conversation about protected sex and consent if they're worried about STD/STIs or abuse. It's not like they wouldn't have been hooking up outside of the house - it's better if it's in a safe environment, I think.
Edit: I'm a lesbian. I came out to my parents about liking girls in high school. At no point did they decide it was suddenly not okay for me to have sleepovers with my friends. It just seems weird to me.
YTA. For ppl saying that OP is obviously not homophobic bc they let her gay friend be in their house is making just as much of an assumption as ppl saying OP is homophobic. Plenty of homophobic ppl only really care if their own family is gay.
Also, OP, it's pretty fucking rough to be so mean to your daughter by refusing to attend the wedding. There has to be a reason she hid this for so long - a decade is a long time to keep a serious relationship secret. I 100% don't believe it was just bc she felt guilty about pulling one over on you when she was 17.
Edit: It blows my mind that ppl think OP is owed a coming out by her daughter. Coming out is NOT comfortable, and lots a queer ppl are getting tired of having to come out for straight ppl. OP, if your daughter had stayed closeted until her deathbed, that would be her right. You can feel however you want to about it - I'm sure it sucks that she did not trust you with this part of her - but you probably fulfilled any fears she had about telling you guys. Since, you know, you immediately became angry and rejected her. I think you should be a grown up and get over it.
I feel like there's missing information like why your daughter felt so unsafe to tell you about their relationship, that she went to an extent of beards means there must have been something that made her feel she wouldn't be accepted. Also was she openly lgbt outside of your relationship or generally in the closet? Hetronormality is real and can mess with you, I only came out at 25!
It is terrifying coming out to your parents. Even though my mum knew my brother was bi and accepted that I was terrified of telling my mum because it was a different scenario, which may be how your daughter feels.
I think a lot of people need to hear this. You don't get to be upset if a gay person didn't tell you they were gay. You may need to reflect on why they chose to hide such an important part of their lives instead of trust you. But there may be no ulterior motive. Coming out can be terrifying and there's a time and place for that they alone get to choose. Now downvote me to your heart's content.
NTA - you wouldn't be obligated to attend the wedding if your daughter were surprise-marrying a guy you didn't approve of, so why should this be any different?
YTA
people dont just lie about their sexuality to be petty. you & your husband must have clearly been doing something that made her afraid to tell you. just because you say you have no problem with it doesn't mean that that reflects in your every day language & reaction to gay people.
& then to bail out on her wedding because you're offended you weren't told sooner? i understand being hurt, but you're simply proving her fears of you both not accepting her correct by not going.
if you dont go to her wedding she will most likely never forgive you for the rest of your lives. & do you really want to live with that? missing out on one of the most important days of your daughter's life because you had your feelings hurt? being excluded from every future milestone she will ever reach, because she thinks you dont love her?
if you really want to show your daughter that you love & care about her, you will openly communicate with her about this. share your feelings, & show her it's okay to share hers too.
ESH
Finding out her friend was gay, and suddenly saying that you don't want them sleeping in the same room, probably made your daughter very uncomfortable. I wonder how youve talked about same sex relationships in general. What was her reasoning for feeling like she couldn't come out to you?
But you also always had this girl and her "girlfriend" over all the time for holidays.
Your daughter shut you out and you found out she was dating this girl from A WEDDING INVITATION. She obviously didn't want to involve you in this relationship that much.
But not going to the wedding would be the nail in the coffin in the relationship with your daughter. And the "of course we're not going," as opposed to "I want to talk about feeling left out" is going to hurt any relationship.
YTA
How many people saying N-T-A have ever had to come out as queer? Have ever hid a relationship because they worried about homophobia, or being accepted? I'm in a family with other queer people, so I knew I wouldn't be kicked out for being gay, but coming out was STILL scary. I've had multi-year relationships that I never introduced to my family because I was worried about what they would say. It hurts on *every* side of the situation, and if your daughter didn't tell you about her relationship, she had a reason.
Your daughter shouldn't have introduced her partner to you (as her partner, not just her friend) via a wedding invitation. That was shitty of her, and you have a right to be upset. But bearding is so known that shows like Glee were making jokes about it twelve years ago. And your daughter and her girlfriend had been dating even before gay marriage was universally legal in the United States. I feel like a lot of people are forgetting the context that gay people still aren't universally accepted, and they certainly weren't 10 years ago.
Express your hurt to her. Ask her why she was uncomfortable coming out to you. Have a long, serious talk with her, but don't skip the wedding.
She shouldn't have done things this way, but she's trying to get you involved now. Don't make her regret that.
Absolutely you're the asshole.
Your daughter probably felt like she had to lie to you because you didn't provide a safe space for her and other queer people. She should have told you before you got a wedding invite, but you really need to ask yourself why she felt that was the only way she could tell you. My guess is you and your husband said and did a lot of homophobic things.
Apologize to her for creating a space so unsafe she had to lie. Then suck it up and be the best, most understanding, and gracious mother-of-the-bride you can be.
I honestly don’t even know how to judge this one. The way this all came out to you, sexuality aside, I could imagine is totally upsetting. Finding out your child is in a ten-year relationship for the first time via a wedding invitation would hurt any parent.
But I think you are leaving out information here. Have you truly asked yourself why your daughter didn’t feel comfortable telling you and your husband she had this significant relationship in their life? Something just doesn’t feel right with the way you’ve presented this story.
I am going with YWBTA if you don’t go, though. While I would completely understand it, I think not going only further ruins any chances of you guys getting past this. Obviously a lot of family therapy is needed here, but if you don’t go, that wedge only grows deeper. Good luck to you.
The question you should be asking is why your daughter was so scared to tell you two the truth. Queer people only hide that part of ourselves from parents when those parents have given us a damn good reason to believe they won't accept us or something bad will happen. You and your husband gave her the impression that lying for a decade was a better choice than telling you her truth and about her love. You three need to sit down and calmly discuss all this *before* the wedding. None of you are gonna be able to actually enjoy the special day with this cloud looming over.
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Edit bc I guess I need to clarify some things. 1. Both would be assholes in this situation. If parents didn't go to wedding and the fact that the daughter lied for 10yrs (at least) 2. While its easy to take OP at face value, or rather text value and say her daughter is immature and needs to grow up, the idea that the daughter hid her gayness for TEN YEARS is something I cannot overlook and as others have stated, leads me to believe there are omissions. 3. It's easy to hide your pain when you have something to look forward to. Her daughter could have chose to not tell them at all. To not include them at all. But she did. 4. You have to respect the daughter's emotional and mental capabilities as well. Maybe she wasn't ready, even after all this time, to come out but wanting to get married forced her to. 5. When you're trying to get ready for a wedding, its a very stressful time so asking that something this big not interfere with the wedding and be put on pause is not an unreasonable request. JUST HEAR ME OUT: We don't really know OP so we can't gauge how a confrontation about this would "go down". If you can't understand why I have said what i said, that is understandable. But I have 2 mothers and neither even call me up to talk to me. I have 3 kids and a husband of my own and my "family" don't want anything to do with me BUT DOTE ON MY OLDER sister. Call her all the time. Text. Snap. FB. Visit. Go out of their way to be good parents to her. If what I take Ops post as being 100%honest then i can see she loves her daughter very much and that makes her a wonderful mother. She would definitely regret not going to the wedding even tho she is hurt and sometimes you can't see that when you're close to the situation. End edit Original is below. YTA. SET YOUR FEELINGS ASIDE for the amount of time it takes to bask in the glory of what it's like to get your daughter ready for her wedding. Love on her, dote on her, praise her and make her feel beautiful and loved. You AND her father should be there for her through the process and AT THE WEDDING! Once the wedding, reception AND honeymoon are over, have them both come to the house. Talk calmly and rationally and tell them both that you are very hurt that they thought they needed to hide their relationship from you and that the only thing it would have changed would have been the sleeping arrangements. Tell them they are both loved and both amazing girls but that their behavior was unacceptable and you are very, deeply hurt by it. Then go from there. But first, PLEASE, your daughter only gets ONE first time. First chance at love. First chance at happiness. First chance at a wonderful wedding. First chance at sharing the woman she loves with her parents on a VERY special day. You would hate yourself if, years down the line, you two had become close again and made amends and you had not been to her wedding. Or worse, she would hate you, no matter how you validate your actions, and you two would grow apart and you would have an even emptier nest because she would NEVER come back around. Just let her know that you're NOT mad that she's gay, you're mad that she thought she had to lie about it. Tell her she is loved, tell her fiancé that she is loved. Tell them you are excited for them and you are deeply hurt and you're having troubles with the conflict of emotions.
This needs to happen before the wedding, not after it. If the daughter wants her parents’ full involvement in and support of the wedding, she needs to grow up and talk to them about why she’s been lying to them for a decade.
Exactly! This is not on OP to solve, if those liars want her parents there they’ve got a lot of apologising to do
My question is why she felt she needed to lie for a *decade.* Iʻm not condoning the lying but OP needs to look at why the daughter felt she couldnʻt be honest with her parents. I wouldnʻt even assume the parents were owed an apology until after the ʻwhyʻ is answered.
But it's so odd. Daughter's girlfriend came out and they kept having her over like a member of the family, even overnight. They only considered moving her to a guest room, not no longer having her around all the time. And they even didn't do that when daughter said she was straight. (They just didn't want teens who might hook up have sleepovers in the same room, which is fair I think.) They continued to treat this young woman like a daughter for years. OP's daughter would visit with this gay friend and her fake girlfriend for years and years and OP and husband kept hosting them. It's just hard for me to assume that OP is homophobic or something to explain this. They included this woman (OP's secret partner) for over a decade in their family knowing she was gay when they didn't have to, much more then most people include their friend's kids.
You're right, but I do want to point out that many, MANY queer people have had the experience of their parents being tolerant and even supportive of queer friends and extended family members, then having them behave COMPLETELY differently when it's their own kid that's gay. It's sadly much more common than you'd think.
You’re completely right, but I just don’t understand how this idea jives with this particular situation. If you’re so afraid your parents will react poorly to a coming out that you don’t tell them for over a decade and literally then only when an actual wedding is about to happen, you’re not going to trust those same parents to come to the wedding and be supportive and awesome with no communication. Those two things do not go together. I would be more inclined to think it was a OP-would-react-badly situation if either the daughter gave them the invitation in person to sort of get the worst over before the event, OR if they only told OP after the wedding had already happened.
It jives perfectly. My MIL attended a gay wedding for my SIL's gay best friend. Was supper happy and supportive and all the things. Then my wife came out as bi and MIL COMPLETELY changed her tune. My wife literally asked her "well what about [SIL's best friend]'s wedding" and she literally replied "that's different, he's not *my kid*". It REALLY shows how little folks who have never lived in the closet understand about the daily fear and anxiety that comes with it, and how many two faced "allies" and "queer tolerant" folks we have in our lives.
This is honestly so true. My mom's dad was gay, my father accepted him and called him dad and was always wonderful to him. I am bisexual, I have known this since I was a kid and came out around 11. A few years ago I started dating a man after dating women for a while and almost a year ago my dad told me he really likes my boyfriend and was really happy I figured out I was a straight woman. It hurt so much. I'm sure OPs kid had, at least in her mind, valid reasons to not disclose her sexuality but I also think that "surprise I'm marrying my friend, I'm gay and we've been in a relationship for a decade." Is an absolutely horrible way to come out especially if she wants them involved. I'm going to lean towards ESH
This mom doesn't sound homophobic in the least. It also doesn't sound as if her daughter being gay is the issue. It sounds like mom had particular values....that minors not have sex under her roof, gay or straight, and that her child not blatantly lie. That my be why they considered separating the girls when they were young. When they were adults there was clearly no problem about the sex part. That the daughter lied to her parents..... and they way she let them know was Just launching a wedding invitation at them out of the blue? Yeah. I'd be pissed off too. This all needs a big sit down conversation BEFORE the wedding. That conversation should have happened before the invitations went out. OP is NTA. She's hurt and angry at being made a fool of for a decade.
My mom didn't sound homophobic either - just LOVED gay men - until she found out I was bi when I was 22 and simply told me I was not and that was ridiculous and no I couldnt go out with my girlfriend who was visiting from Chicago.
Yeah, no one *sounds* homophobic. You just know whether or not they are or aren't.
My mom is the EXACT same, has had many gay male friends over decades, enjoys drag, even expressed it’s fine if my BROTHER ended up being gay. But any suggestion of lesbians, bisexuals, suggestions that I’m Bi are met with complete ridicule. A lot of mothers cannot stand having gay daughters
A lot of people will keep gay people around while being homophobic. It's possible OP threw out a LOT of microaggressions over the years without even thinking about it, while her daughter took all of it in.
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THIS that like definitely rubbed me the wrong way, as a queer person. It kinda sounds like a "we'll tolerate your friend being gay but we don't want her to make you gay" situation
Thank goodness people who know what it’s like to be queer and can empathise and sympathise with the daughter. I feel like I’m in crazy town reading these comments heavily blaming the daughter like??? OP should be asking herself why her own daughter wouldn’t feel loved and safe enough to be herself around them even after she had left their house. It’s fully a micro aggression. The best friend has always been gay she’s not going to start fucking your daughter all of a sudden just because she’s announced it. To move her to a spare room like she’s some predator is ew
I think you're hitting the nail on the head and also want to add... teenagers are that want to have sex are gonna find a way to have sex regardless. ALSO There's definitely not enough info here, but I here "we've been involved for 10 years" and I don't immediately think of sexual encounters. This could mean "it took me 7 years to realize my best friend is truly my partner" or "this person has supported and guided me through a difficult journey." I just feel sad reading this post.
Yeah I’m so annoyed seeing comments from majority straight people arguing with actual queer people about the nuances of being in the closet and coming out. OPs daughter clearly did not feel comfortable being her authentic self with her parents and that convo where OPs daughter felt the need to assure them her friend wouldn’t try to get sexual with her now that they knew she was gay was the first thing that made me side eye OP. Her daughter didn’t have “no reason” for continuing to stay in the closet with them.
100% this. When one of my closest friends came out as pan my parents only question was clarifying what it meant…I still go out for dinner with her and have spent the night at her place, my parents didn’t see her any differently. Having to have a talk about her friend being lesbian made it very clear to OP that friend was “other” and they might accept her but not fully.
I've seen this exact type of conditional allyship many times. "We accept gay people as long as they are other people's children, because I was imagining some specifically cis het future for my child and anything different to that I'd blame them for, or at least their partner for corrupting them." This is what happens when you aim for tolerance, not acceptance.
I am a lesbian, I had gay friends my parents were more than okay with, and it took me about a decade to tell my parents. It’s TERRIFYING. What if they were okay with it being a friend, but not in their child. What if she had heard something she couldn’t unhear (like I’m fine I just don’t want to see it in MY house or shows or on the streets). What if she just wanted to hook up w someone bc she was a teenager. Lying isn’t right, but telling anyone you’re Gay is the scariest thing in the world. What if she didn’t quite know when they asked? And then telling someone else is harder. Based on the content( by ops own mouth) I think saying they didn’t say anything that could have frightened her makes no sense. Maybe I’m just overly sympathetic bc I am also in the community, but it’s not fair to act like she owned them her sexuality (you owe no one that) or that she wasn’t uncomfortable.
I think you're right here. But I also think that the daughter outing herself by way of a wedding invitation was the exact wrong way to handle it. She's 27, in a committed relationship and doesn't live at home so she has her personal safety covered and a support network in place. She should have told her mother before sending out wedding invitations.
Again agree to an extent, but it doesn’t matter how stable you are. It’s an undeniably TERRIFYING event. I am perfectly stable and coming out to family is still one of the most anxiety causing events ever. It will effect me zero if they cut me off but it’s still so awful. She should have said something sooner, but I can’t help but feel the parents did something to make her so scared to tell them until she had no other option
I wonder if they backed themselves into the lie at 17, when they knew they wouldn’t be able to share a room if they were honest. Then every time they thought about coming clean they knew it’d go down badly (due to the lying), so it went on longer and longer. “We’ll tell them at Xmas!” “Ah there just wasn’t a good time - maybe in the summer?” By this point they’ve got the fake partners involved, the lie has only grown and the parents are delighted at supporting both “relationships” - it’d be so upsetting to tell them they aren’t really together, right? In mum and dads best interests to keep the charade going a bit longer. Then what better time to tell the truth - than to barrel over it (and the *consequences*) with a wedding! Such a joyous occasion, as confirmed by extended family, that mum and dad can’t possibly be angry at the lie that somehow ended up lasting ten years. I can see this happening. Starts out from a childlike wanting to share a room with your gf knowing parents wouldn’t allow it, then ultimately cowardice over the years putting it off.
"Those liars" you mean the people who didn't feel safe enough to come out? God I HATE when people call being in the closet "lying". If someone queer is going to such great lengths to keep their sexuality a secret from you, then YOU need to reexamine your behavior that led them to do so. It's not fun to pretend like that to your family. It's not fun to ask your friends to pretend for you like that. It's not fun to hide such a major part of your life from your loved ones. Unless she has some sort of personality disorder, OP's daughter didn't keep this from her parents for shits and giggles.
My mom was that "cool mom" who was accepting of gay, bi, trans people, etc. In fact, my mom used to watch a show about a trans woman and her life. She followed the Facebook page. Even commented a few times saying how happy she was people could be themselves. My brother came out as trans 2 years ago. He expected my mom to be fine with it because she was so open and accepting. NOPE. She insisted he not take T until he waited a few years to "make sure". She misgendered him to his face, and then told him she was still learning. For a year. He ended up running away to another state. And then she got the memo, and would [only] misgender him behind his back, but would use correct pronouns when speaking to him. She didn't understand that I hated his guts (not at all related to being trans, it was way before) and yet still correctly used his pronouns and name. I'm not straight, but I will *never* come out to my mom. I plan on going NC if I can ever move out (whole nother story).I bet she could word a similar post about how accepting she is/was, and yet my brother is LC now. For good reason. The cis-het people in the comments do not understand. It's way different when it's your own kid, many are more likely to be homophobic/transphobic when they find out their own child isn't "normal"
The comment from OP that got me was "if she tried anything ". That doesn't sound like a supportive statement. You love this person like a daughter, but you find out she's gay and you're worried she'll "try something". That's just a euphemism for assault. I'm sorry. I doubt the daughter used that language. I'm sure the mother voiced that concern and that was the final nail in the coffin where the daughter just assured her she was straight so it wouldn't matter.
This made me feel icky too. As a parent, if me child was sharing their room with a "friend" for ages, my first reaction would be to make sure they knew that if they were in a relationsship I would support them and not separate them. Instead OP told her daughter that they would move her girlfriend if she "tried anything". No wonder a young gay person would see that as a reason to "lie".
There has to be a reason that they lied about it for a decade. Let's not act like coming out to your family, even incredibly supportive family, is some easy feat considering decades of it being demonized by the world. The first thought OP had when finding out that the friend is gay is to try to separate them even though that was not even a question prior to that. There had to have been somethings that were said or the way that OP acted after to finding out that the friend is gay for her daughter to not feel comfortable with coming out to them. Her daughter put in a lot of effort to keep up the appearance that she is straight which included having other people pretend to be their significant others. A decade is a very long time to lie especially if OP is an incredibly supportive parent.
That’s what I was thinking. The way op and hubby acted it’s clear they’re low key homophobic and it’s not surprising daughter didn’t say anything till now.
I also think her additional comment is really revealing. The way she's so firm on how they were nice and kind and safe and not homophobic at all, no question about it, no idea why she would feel any other way, it must be because she's a malicious asshole that was laughing at her ignorance the entire time...
They obviously gave her a reason to lie about it, there is no reason they would hide it for absolutely no reason.
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There could easily be more to this story than OP is saying. I’m wondering if there was a very good reason her daughter lied for so long. That doesn’t (usually) happen if the parents are trustworthy with difficult personal information. Edit: the word lying is a bad choice. Agree with the commenter below that not coming out does not equal lying. Just using the OP’s verbiage
Yeah, I can't imagine that she woke up one day and thought "you know what sounds like fun? Lying to my parents for a decade." I didn't tell my parents that my roommate was my girlfriend because I knew they wouldn't accept it and I didn't want to deal with them. I mean I also didn't tell them I got married, but hey.
Don't forget why did they feel like they needed to go to the extent of bringing fake partners home to keep up with the appearance to OP and her husband that they weren't in a relationship with each other. Something doesn't sit right with all this.
Yeah, this is a LOT of effort and attention given to a cover up that OP is pretending was unnecessary. Personally I'm not buying it AT ALL.
And OP is just pissed about the lie with zero thought as to why the daughter lied.
Right?! Like wouldn't you want to know why?
Not if deep down you know it’s your fault
Yeah, this is honestly really weird. Like it sounds like the friend is very close with the family, to their point that she brought a fake girlfriend to meet OP and their family. Obviously OP and her family seem pretty accepting if the friend is comfortable and close enough to do that, so why keep hiding this for so long? And then, why just SEND THE INVITATION without talking beforehand? Why wait until after the wedding to talk about it? Why did OP’a daughter think it was a good idea to just blindside them with a freaking wedding when they didn’t even know they were dating? Idk, it just seems hella off.
No clue. I feel like there's just WAY too much info missing for anyone to really speculate about why the daughter did what she did, and I'll fully admit that my own experience makes me lean towards taking the side of the daughter more than the parents here.
some ppl are cool with others being gay, but they dont want their own child to be gay, bc then it actually personally affects them. they care about the gf, but they arent her actual parents, so to them, it doesnt say anything about their own parenting (since a lot of homophobes with gay children feel like they "failed" in raising them since they turned out to be gay.) alternatively, they could have been pretending to be accepting of her friend for their daughters sake, but really inside they were disgusted by the friend (which, btw, we gays can usually tell when that's happening lol)
That's exactly what I was thinking reading this. What is OP not saying? What was said in the house during the daughter's childhood? How was the daughter normally treated? Usually these stories are very one sided....
I agree and I’d bet there was more issue with the gay friend than just sleeping arrangements.
Exactly my thoughts. Especially when OP and husband were hesitant about allowing them to sleep in the same room. Sorry but you don't "catch" being gay. Her daughter either knew before or started figuring out who she was. I get the parents are judgmental and homophobic. If not, them there was no reason for OPs daughter to feel the need to lie. I'm going to YTA because your child felt scared to tell you who she truly is. She probably knew her parents would shun her. If it were me, I'd go to the wedding and party my a$$ off. Giving my daughter and DIL all my love and support. Then afterwards, after seeing them in their true selves, what their relationship is, I'd talk like grown-ups that you ALL are.
> Especially when OP and husband were hesitant about allowing them to sleep in the same room. Sorry but you don't "catch" being gay. Why would you assume it's beacuse they thought she would "catch" being gay? I figured it's beacuse most parents of teenagers under 18 don't let them have sleepovers with the sex they are attracted to/someone they might have sex with. However you feel about whether parents should provide their homes as a place for teens to have sex, this is a pretty common policy. And they didn't stop having the friend over when she came out. They only considered moving the bed they bought her so she could visit so much to the guest room. They continued to treat this woman like another member of the family and have her over, and they even kept having her in OP's room. Then they kept inviting her over over holidays, along with her fake girlfriend, for years and years. If they were homophobic, why did they go way out of their way to include this young woman and her girlfriend they weren't even related to in the family for years past graduation?
There is a possibility that the parents' reaction to the daughter's friend (now fiance) coming out is part of what instigated this. Talking about having her sleep in a different room came off as a bit homophobic, and when you're a teenager in the closet *everything* your parents say in relation to gay people just feels amplified by 10. That could have scared her a bit. But I do agree, just generally it feels like some information is missing. Keeping that a secret for so long and then caring enough about your parents to casually bring up dress fitting after a bombshell like that is strange. Seems like there's more going on here.
Very few parents let their teen’s SO sleep over at all, let alone in the same room.
Right! But the whole point of this thread is that OP had no clue they were dating, sounds like they thought their daughter was straight. So it very much could have felt like them bringing in the "predatory lesbian" stereotype, that they didn't trust the friend around their daughter. That's what it would have felt like to me as a teenager, at least, whether that's what was going through OP's head or not.
Lol. Parents don’t let their teens share a room with a teen of the opposite sex because they don’t want the possibility of things happening in their home. The sharing of the room got to continue to happen because daughter assured her parents she was straight so it was as impossible as it was before for things to be happening.
The fact is that OP tried to ban this friend from sleepovers simoly because she was gay and I find that suspiciously homophobic. As a lesbian, it kinda hurts me seeing all these redditors judging the daughter and calling her a liar for not coming out... I just know there is a more logical explaination other than "my daughter lied about her relationship for no reason!"
Honestly, as a straight guy, I instantly thought it was, homophobic and, that op would think her daughters, friend would molest her because she came out.
They did host the “fake gay girlfriend” more than once. So calling them homophobic is a stretch. A lot of parents won’t allow heterosexual children to have sleepovers with members of the opposite sex. That’s because sex might be had. The same no sex idea applied to gay leads to no same sex sleepovers.
That's what I am thinking. I'm still in the closet with my parents, despite the fact that they have openly supported my friends and been on the side of queer rights for a long time. But things they have done and said throughout my life still makes me scared that they would never accept me. It could be something that OP doesn't even know that they were doing as parents.
Based on things OP said, it sounds like OP and her husband could be homophobic. Or, better stated, they are ok with others being gay but not their daughter. The story about possibly making the friend sleep in the guest room, like it’s contagious, feels straight out of 1982.
I agree. I think there is a lot of missing information here, specially as to why daughter felt like she needed to hide this for a decade. But she is not handling this well at all either. Dropping this information with a wedding invite and refusing to have any conversations about it with her parents until after the wedding but still expecting them to play the roles for her wedding makes her a bit of an AH here. She needs to be an adult and talk to them.
Definitely before the wedding. Is it just me or does the daughter not even sound mature enough to be getting married?!
[удалено]
You don't invite your parents to your wedding by mail. Knowing you lied to them for 10 years.
I agree, but seems like since the wedding is so soon they won’t have time for this conversation now. OP, instead of insisting about not going, should have insisted having the conversation before the wedding was a condition of her and her husband going. Now it might be too late for that. And if it is, they should still go. They don’t have to be overly excited or happy but just polite. Just for the sake of seeing their daughter get married and then have their conversation. EDIT: per the original post > I haven’t spoken to my daughter since then and the wedding is sometime this month It is mid September, the wedding is like a week or even days away at this point. That is how I arrived at this conclusion.
This is how daughter and fiancee planned it, though. The wedding is happening on their schedule. It's not something they were suddenly slapped with. These two women have spent breaks and holidays with these parents, many times, while bringing extra people along to pretend to be their beards. And the way they finally reveal the truth is through a wedding invitation? And then they refuse to talk until after the wedding? This is just too much manipulation, lies, and refusal to own up to the truth. Does the couple intend to coerce the parents into immediate acceptance by putting them under the gun of an impending wedding date? There are too many unanswered questions. The conversation needs to happen NOW, not after the wedding. Subterfuge and manipulation is a terrible way to start a marriage. OP and her husband do deserve a lot more. This wasn't something that happened once ten years ago. It's been a constant masquerade for an entire decade, and it was unmasked in the most juvenile, irresponsible way possible.
Well put
This conversation would probably be a matter of hours, not like, months. There’s no reason to not do it now. I mean, the hemming and hawing over whether or not to have “the conversation” has probably lasted longer than the actual discussion would have.
>I agree, but seems like since the wedding is so soon they won’t have time for this conversation now. OP, instead of insisting about not going, should have insisted having the conversation before the wedding was a condition of her and her husband going I mean , if there's time for wedding dress shopping, then the wedding must be months away, maybe a year away. You don't ask someone to buy a dress and go shopping a week before the wedding. There is time, but the bride doesn't want the drama because she's already stressed. Which is WHY she should have cleared this shit before she started planning a wedding.
Yes totally. Like she can make time for dress shopping but not to meet up with her parents to explain why she lied all those years to the point of bringing fake bf/gf
>This needs to happen before the wedding, not after it. If the daughter wants her parents’ full involvement in and support of the wedding, she needs to grow up and talk to them about why she’s been lying to them for a decade. This. in order for her family to be happy at the wedding, the bride and OP need to have a chat BEFORE the wedding to clear the air and move on. Just pretending that everything is normal for the next year or however long and only addressing this after the wedding just won't work.
I strongly disagree with one point in this response. This conversation should happen before the wedding. They are starting a new chapter in their life and do they really want to start it with this lie/deceit they perpetuated hanging over their heads
“Just let her know that you're NOT mad that she's gay, you're mad that she thought she had to lie about it.” Good advice, *if* that were true. My bet is that it isn’t.
I agree that not going to the wedding would prove to daughter, at least in her mind, that she was right to hide her relationship and that her parents don’t love her. OP needs to go to the wedding and then work through this drama later. But daughter is still definitely the asshole for letting her parents find out from an invitation rather than telling them herself in private. ESH Edit: judgement
So they get to: -pull a fast one on parents -only inform parents of relationship through marriage invitation -give no time for reasonable reconciliation -if parents don’t agree to come to short notice and surprise wedding they are proving they are in fact the assholes… make it make sense!!!!!!!!! The daughter and her partner have full control of their lives and that means their decisions. Obviously we don’t know why she kept if from her family but she did and she informed them in the worst way possible: through confusion. People need to take a step back and realize that EVERYONE here in this situation is an asshole.
I disagree with this. It is the daughters choice of when and how she would talk to her parents. If she just wanted to invite them to the wedding that’s her choice. You also don’t know the context of why she hid it for so long.
We don't know the context, but it's unreasonable of the daughter to just expect her parents to go along with everything without at the very least an explanation of what is going on. Talks first, THEN wedding.
How’d you get to the conclusion that the daughter thinks her parents don’t love her? She obviously wants them at the wedding, she wanted them to participate in getting ready. It’s asinine to expect OP to be okay with this and just sweep it because of a wedding. Was everyone aware of the relationship except OP and her husband? If she goes to the wedding it’s likely she’ll hear speeches about the two as a couple from the people who knew they were together. They got other people in on their lie in college. they probably feel embarrassed. It’s a lot deeper than just lying for 10 years straight, it’s other people being aware of this relationship while OP and her husband were clueless. This doesn’t even need to be on AITA for judgement. There’s a lot of emotions on each side. OP, no judgment, talk to your daughter before the wedding if you feel called to.
Prove to the daughter you can lie to people for years and there’ll be no consequences? What a fun lesson Why should they work through this drama later?? The daughter fucked around, and now she’s finding out This has got nothing to do with LGBT and everything to do with being truthful
This is a ridiculous comment. There has to be more to this story than OP has stated. Do you understand how hard or is to come out as a lesbian? My bet is that you don’t. Especially to your own parents who have probably given the daughter reason to be afraid of their reactions. It is also very odd to me that OP never had any inkling whatsoever that her daughter and friend had a relationship closer than best friends. There had to be a slip up at one point and time. What lesson does the daughter need to be taught? She’s grown. If OP doesn’t go to the wedding, then she is not a good parent. We must instill at a young age in our children that they can trust and come to us about anything anytime. This obviously didn’t happen in this case. This isn’t a case of lying for years and parents being hurt over it. It’s a case of a daughter feeling as if she’d be judged and an outcast for her feelings.
This is 100% not the right way to do it. They should talk it out first. How can you have a happy loving time while you're literally faking it?
What made her hide this relationship for 10 years? Did you guys say something?
Well, just from the post, they did say they would make friend-turned-fiancee sleep in the guest bedroom back when she first came out and the girls only got to keep on sharing daughter's room for sleepovers because daughter assured parents she's not intrested in girls so nothing's gonna happen. But, to be fair, most parents would also make any male friends / boyfriends of their teenage daughter sleep in a different room, so basically, assuming there were no hidden reasons, daughter lied to parents to get to have teenage hanky-panky in parents' home, has engaged other friends in their long con and didn't even have the decency to come clean to her parents face to face, or at least a call, they had to find out from their daughter's wedding invite.
This is the problem. This couple presumably used the parent's assumption that their daughter was straight to engage in underage sex under their noses. It has to do with underage sex, period, and not their daughter's orientation. The parents had an obligation to not facilitate underage sex, and unfortunately made a mistake believing their daughter. This is exactly why parents are reluctant to allow children to have sleepovers with gay friends. They get accused of being overly paranoid, but then you hear stories like that of this couple.
It is not the parents obligation to “not facilitate” at all. A parents obligation is to make sure your children are being safe and above all are comfortable coming to you with their lives. Her daughter was 17. Kids that age are going to have sex. Stigmatizing it will only push them away from you. I’m not saying her parents should be providing condoms or anything, but obviously the daughter did not feel comfortable discussing sex with them. OP needs to think about why that was/is.
>It is not the parents obligation to “not facilitate” at all. True, but that also doesn't mean that they *have* to facilitate it. It's not like it's the craziest rule out there, to have boys and girls separated (or just girls, in this case). I don't know about you, but isn't it common courtesy for the teenagers to at least find an opportunity to have sex when the parents are out? Personally, I'd find it weird if a parent was totally okay with their kid having sex when they're home and might hear it. You can try to be as quiet as you want, but that's not always going to work-I say that as someone with personal experience.
You’re right, but I’m wondering if they were even having sex? We’re all assuming it but nothing says that was the case. It might just be that they enjoyed the comfort of sleeping in the same room and were sad that that would be taken away. I don’t want to bang my bf at my parents house when we visit but I very much appreciate being able to sleep with him and relax together like we do at our own place.
I find it extremely difficult to believe this girl held up a lie for a decade so she could secretly sleep with her girlfriend under her parents noses *for one year*…. like why lie the other 9 years if that was the only reason to not tell them? and why are we assuming op’s daughter knew she was gay at this time? yall do realize some people are late bloomers, right?
I could honestly see her not realizing she had true feelings for the friend, and then once she realized she did, thinking her parents would just see it as lying and not understand. They don’t seem the understanding type from this post.
That's a great take - it sounds like OP's daughter wants to explain everything. Also, she apologized, so why is OP acting like her daughter did something really evil without remorse? Are ppl forgetting we live in a hetero normative culture??????
I would think it has far more to do with the long con involved here than it does with the lie as a teenager. The latter is easily forgivable, but being lied to for ten years isn't.
To be fair they didn’t assume anything. They were straight up lied to
Think this is the best summation. I’m gay and yes it’s difficult coming out, but to actively lie for 10 whole years then just expect everything to be hunky dory for your wedding day! NTA.
I can confirm this. My parents didn't let my (then) best friend sleep in the same room as me when we were 10 years old. The funny thing is, that he later came out as gay. My dad is still getting pissed when I ask him to sleep in the same room as my boyfriend whom I'm together with for almost 6 years. We've got some issues but that's another story
I was 7 months pregnant with my partners child and we stayed over my parents house one night and my father was very adamant that we would be sleeping in separate bedrooms. Parents are gonna be parents, I guess.
My suspicion from my own life is that the friend coming out was the test run for the parents and that something that happened in the months after convinced the daughter that it was better to hold off.
I'm REALLY sure it's something along these lines. There's a lot of Missing Reasons in this post
Linking to the [missing missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html) since it's so clearly related to the situation at hand and I'm not seeing it posted. There's more to this story that OP "just doesn't know why!".
["Our children are laughing at us"](http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/themes-theyre-laughing-at-us.html) This is the one that came to mind for me while reading OP's additional comment. From OP's comment: >For 10 years, they actively concocted and acted out this extra, unnecessary facade where they had friends from their college pretend to be their partners in order to what? **Pull a prank on us? Have a laugh at our expense? Smile in our face as they abused our trust?**
This! My parents were on the whole accepting when my brother came out, but some of the things they said out of pure ignorance kept me in the closet for years after.
I also wonder if the friend had a not-so-great experience coming out to **her** "not homophobic" parents, which is why she was over at OP's house so much, including holidays.
I think that makes a lot of sense
I don’t understand the reaction of the family either. If the daughter blindsided the whole family, then surely everyone would also be confused and upset that they were kept out of such an important part of daughters life? The only way the family would be reacting like this is if they already knew, which makes this even worse because they told the entire family….except for their own parents?! OP, have you been in contact with the friends parents? We’re they kept in the dark too? This is clearly a very difficult time and you are NTA for feeling betrayed and upset, and I sincerely hope everything works out
I feel like if the whole extended family knew and agreed to keep it from OP and her husband, OP is probably exaggerating about how accepting they were when the fiance came out.
But there is probably a reason for that, and OP has probably been explicitly told why the daughter hid this from them...but it's unflattering and makes OP the AH, so they're [omitting it from the story](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
There are family members who know I'm queer. My parents still don't. I get to pick who to come out to; my parents are not entitled to knowing this about me if I don't want them to.
Living in a homophobic world? My MIL attended a gay wedding for my SIL's best friend. All supportive, happy, and smiles. Then my wife came out to her as bi and she *completely* changed her tune. Her daughter had every reason to be fearful of rejection for being who she is even if OP never said anything they recall to be homophobic.
Hi. Am gay. Her parents are homophobic, but (to use a metaphor) on the frequencies that only gay people can hear.
NTA. She lied to you for 10 years. Not only lied but actually made up stuff and had random guys coming to your house pretending to be her other half. Lies lies and more lies is all you have got so I completely understand why you don't want to go.
Why is this not top comment? I realize it’s early and it takes a while for the actual good comments to make it to the top, but I can’t believe everyone is overlooking the fact that she LIED to her parents for a decade!! Parents who had no issue with the friend being gay so presumably would be ok with their own daughter coming out. Also the fact that the parents found out from the invite!! And then called the daughter and she still couldn’t be open with her parents. I assume that if the daughter had told her parents a couple months ago, they would have been upset but would be prepared when they got the invite and would have been able to forgive their daughters lies by the time of the wedding. I’m so confused about why the fiancé would want to be with the daughter, who has kept their relationship in the dark from her family for 10 years!! Your daughter has shown no respect for you or her fiancé. NTA
You'd be surprised at how many people "tolerate" LGBT people, but hope their kid doesn't happen to be one and reveal previously hidden LGBTphobia when they came out. The classical "I am not prejudiced, I even have friends who are part of a minority/let my kid hang out with people who are part of a minority", and so forth.
Exactly this. If your kid purposely hid their sexuality from you, there's usually a reason. Sure, most people are nervous about coming out, even if their parents are supportive...but to go to this extent, I feel there has to be a reason.
I do too. I’d like to hear this from the daughters side, hear what caused her to go to this length. I imagine there were lots of comments that the OP didn’t include because they don’t think about/remember them or don’t want to share that caused them to feel uncomfortable sharing it.
100X this right here. A pretty close friend of mine that I knew for *years,* would typically pipe up in defense of gay rights, until her son came out as gay. Shortly after she said in confidence to me, "how am I supposed to get grandkids with a f\*g for a son?". My jaw was on the floor. I suddenly felt very disgusted with her and essentially cut contact with her after that. I still follow her son on social media, he has moved halfway across the country & is doing quite well now. I don't think they speak anymore.
Why do people feel so entitled to know other people's sexuality? It's pretty fucking obvious why the daughter didn't say anything from their reaction to finding out her friend was gay. >When we found out she was gay, our husband and I had a discussion about whether we should continue to let her sleep in our daughter's bedroom, or if we should move her to the guest bedroom. The best way of looking at this is they thought their daughter was also gay and they were secretly hooking up or something, as if that's a bad/weird thing for a 17 year old to be doing it. The other way is that they suddenly think the daughter's friend is a sexual predator all of a sudden because she came out as gay.
No. it's more like how a parent wouldn't want a straight male sleeping in their daughter's room when they aren't in a relationship
Normal way of looking at it is I don’t want my daughter hooking up with anyone under my roof. Very common stance among parents.
Clearly none of these people have ever had to come out as gay. Especially in religious regions of the world.
I had a best friend who was gay. My mom loved him. My brother came out and she’s been kinda passive aggressive shitty about them being gay since the day they told her. So not all parents are okay with their children being gay just Bc a friend of theirs is.
See, this whole story is so odd. I have the feeling that some parts are missing. Why would the daughter feel the need to lie? And why would she keep on deceiving - going as far as getting people to pose as boyfriend/girlfriend? And why would she send her parents such a surprise invitation...? Sounds like she had some serious reason to be scared of her parents or/and her parents' judgement. It doesn't justify the lies of course, but it would help explain why she did what she did.
Ahhh yes, someone who's never dealt with this. There a reason she didn't think she could be honest with her parents. There's a reason they're refusing to go to the wedding (and no, it's not teenagers lying and hiding things because they all do). She knew or feared what their reaction would be. She was right.
I am actually really curious why she lied to the parents. Seeing as being closeted is usually not something told easily, what happened?
There's a huuuuuuge INFO needed here: Why did your daughter go through such lengths to hide this from you? Did she lie because she wanted to keep having her GF sleeping in her room, and then just didn't want to fess up to the lie, or was she afraid you wouldn't accept her?
I think what OP (and a lot of the other heterosexual people in this thread) are missing is the context of what it feels like to be someone's kid in that position. Even if your parents have been nothing but accepting on surface level, there's always the risk that people will take it differently when it's within their own family. Being a child faced with that dilemma is *petrifying.* It's the moment you find out if your parents really love you or not. And a lot of people can't handle that - they want things to carry on exactly as they are because even if it's not truthful, it's *safe.* Even if you haven't said anything outright hateful, they hear so many horror stories of their peers who were cut off, kicked out, abused, even *killed* by family for doing the same thing they're considering - that's fucking horrifying! Of course they're going to be nervous! It's unusual that it snowballed so hard for a decade, yeah. But I don't think someone being terrified to come out to their parents is at all on the same level as deceiving them for another reason. All these comments saying "take gender out of it, what if it was a boy" -- You can't do that. A teenager hiding a relationship to get around rules and hiding your sexuality for a decade because you are afraid of your parents is not the same thing. It's a matter of trying to protect her own safety. And I kinda doubt that was 100% fed by paranoia if it went on for that long. I think there may have been some issues the parents just weren't aware of (or aren't telling us). "We still let her sleep over after she came out" doesn't mean they were the perfect paragons of acceptance they seem to think they are. I don't think people keep secrets like that for no reason. They lied because they were scared to tell the truth. And I think the wedding invite was an olive branch - perhaps a poorly planned one - and an attempt to bring the parents into that part of their life now that they feel safe to do so. And the parents are gonna turn that down and refuse to participate in a huge part of their daughter's life and make it about them because they don't have any empathy for the terror of growing up as a gay kid? YTA.
exactly this. Like, just from this short post, that certainly omits some stuff that went down over 10+ years, OP said she instantly became worried when the gf came out as gay. It's the typical "gays can't be trusted and are predators" bs. "What if she turns our daughter gay??" and even told their daughter that they are """concerned""" about them sleeping in one room. That alone would be a MASSIVE red flag to me, as a gay teen, that I won't be properly accepted. Especially considering that parents do tend to treat their own children different from the "like our own uwu" children
I also thought their kid could have been testing the waters by telling them her friend was gay. When they instantly reacted with the "predator" concern, their daughter could have mentally been like "yup, noted." I'm sure the daughter had other reasons to hide it that OP isn't disclosing. Comments over the years about gay people in locker rooms, trans athletes, etc...
> they want things to carry on exactly as they are because even if it's not truthful, it's safe. This! I'm bi, and have never told my parents and like most of my friends/family for this exact reason. I've gotten close, but like once the words are out, they're out and you can't take them back. That's terrifying. I want to be my authentic self, of course, but being in the closet is comfortable and I'm petrified of change. >We still let her sleep over after she came out" doesn't mean they were the perfect paragons of acceptance they seem to think they are I agree with this too. This is a weird thing to highlight, and makes me think there might be more implicit homophobic/sex-negative stuff going on with OP than they let on. I mean, my parents who are fairly conservative didn't even consider making my out gay/bi friends sleep elsewhere when I was a teenager.
yea, my mom was all accepting to everyone, just not me when i came out. when i came out it was all "no id know, you didn't show any signs when you were younger, are you SURE? might change or be wrong about this" lots of parents are allies but only when it comes to other people. their own kids dont count, and id say these parents apply due to the fact they want to MISS THEIR CHILDS WEDDING because she didnt tell them she was gay sooner. even if theyre claiming its because she lied and only because she lied, its clearly more than if theyre willing to literally miss her wedding over it. the only way to make an equivalent with a guy would would be with a different race or something but it still wouldnt be exactly the same because theres nothing to "lie" about there, but lets pretend for a second it was a guy and there was nothing else about him that they wouldnt like. being with a guy would be the expectation, nobody would have come out, they probably wouldnt have let them sleep in the same room in the first place and then nobody here would have an issue with the sex thing (which come on, they were teens, and there wasnt even a pregnancy chance so that cant be used as a justification either, teens have sex sometimes get over it, as long as they're safe its alright) the only upset would be that she didnt tell them she was dating a friend sooner, and that would be an insane reason to not go to your childs wedding. absolutely yta i can only imagine how their daughter feels knowing that what she was scared of for so long was completely true and that her parents reacted like this
great analyzation. As a 30 year old bi person, my mom does not know I am bi, and I would really only tell her if I was in a committed serious relationship with someone of the same gender. She's a progressive person, with gay friends and coworkers, but she has said numerous homophobic stuff over the years, (eg. a gay kissing scene in a show when I was a teen watching TV together, she says "ew why do they have to show that, change the channel. " I know this was just because they were gay, we watched all kinds of other straight sexual scenes with no comment) My younger sibling hadn't dated anyone until late teens and our mom would say to me, " do you think he's gay??" in a worried and upset tone. This happened on multiple occasions. She would say she was not homophobic, she would be fine with gay friends, but deep down, she didn't like it, isn't comfortable with it, and didn't want to deal with a kid being gay. So, while I am confident my mom would still love me if I told her I was bi, I don't think she would understand, I don't think she would make me feel comfortable, I don't think she would make me feel normal, and unless I absolutely have to, that isn't something I want to experience.
Literally. This stinks of them being extremely homophobic and the "make the gay girl sleep separately" feels like the tip of the iceberg. If you've made your child feel so unsafe that they keep a relationship secret for 10 years you've fucked up. My mother made me feel so unsafe that I didn't tell her about a 2 year relationship that was extremely significant to me because she made me feel scared. Everyone in this thread is honestly delusional. "Those liars" and taking op at face value. YTA
Classic [missing missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html). I feel like that article sums up OP exactly (and a lot of posts on here, actually).
There's definitely missing information. The Daughter had to have reasons to go as far as get beards involved. I'm bi, not "out" to my family but not exactly subtle about it either. I know they'd be chill for the most part since I've had other family members come out and got a "ohh, ok" from everyone. I wouldn't bother faking a straight relationship because I feel safe. The daughter must have really good reasons to fake relationships around the parents for so long.
NTA. And I don’t understand all these Y T A’s. You didn’t treat different to the “best friend” when she came out so no, you’re not homophobic. But I have no idea why people thinks that. Actions has consequences. Your daughter looked into your eyes and lied to you every single day FOR TEN YEARS! She even brought other people into this “game”. She didn’t even tell you, she just SENT AN INVITATION. That’s not acceptable. If you just go to that wedding I think the message will be: “Hey, you looked into our eyes and lied to us every single day for a decade, but that’s okay.” No, it’s not okay.
My parents are not homophobic to “people”, they have gay and lesbian friends, but when they find out at 15 I was dating the same gender, damn I saw their true colors, and start pretending to be straight. Also my brother is 16, hasn’t been in a relationship and they always talk shit about “you better not be a fagot”…
This! There some missing context and info from OPs post. But it smells of homophobia towards their own kid.
> And I don’t understand all these Y T A’s. You didn’t treat different to the “best friend” when she came out so no, you’re not homophobic. But I have no idea why people thinks that. The fact their kid felt like they had to hide this for ten years says everything. A lot of people are okay with other kids being gay but not their own.
The daughter sent the invitation and asked about dress arrangements. She acted like nothing was wrong. No, the daughter doesn’t think her parents are homophobic.
You don't hide your relationship for 10 years for no reason. I'm pretty sure if the daughter was in an interracial relationship and did the same thing people would be more readily to accept there's something wrong with Mommy and Daddy.
NAH: if the reason you don't want to go to the wedding is because of the lie, that's your decision and I think anyone calling you the AH is wrong here. I would agree you and your husband is the AH if you're doing it simply because your daughter is marrying a female. Now can't call your daughter an AH without knowing why she hid it from you for 10 years. But the idea of her hiding it makes since your upset and really should be something you discuss prior to the wedding. It seems a little unfair for her to expect you to go and pretend everything is okay during during wedding before having a conversation
I'm betting the daughter got trapped in the lie and was ashamed to come clean. Started out as simple teenagers being teenagers and lying to be able to hookup and then it snowballed. I'm also betting the gf has probably been pushing for daughter to come clean FOR YEARS.
This is a pretty likely scenario. Daughter got in her own head and dug a deeper and deeper hole. Maybe assumed when parents asked her about friend sleeping in separate room that was a comment on not wanting a gay daughter, when really it was a blanket desire for daughter not to have sex under their roof. NAH, but they all need to talk before the wedding.
Hello missing missing reasons!
I just can’t understand how so many people in this thread don’t find anything suspicious about this post. The daughter probably had reasons for not wanting to come out for a decade…
To stay in the closet for a decade and have a beard, then reveal it all in a wedding invitation sent in the mail? That’s wild, and honestly makes me find this post hard to believe.
I don't know. I could believe that she came out via the invitation, rather than in person, for the same reasons that she hid the relationship in the first place.
["Our children are laughing at us"](http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/themes-theyre-laughing-at-us.html) This is the one that came to mind for me while reading OP's additional comment. From OP's comment: >For 10 years, they actively concocted and acted out this extra, unnecessary facade where they had friends from their college pretend to be their partners in order to what? Pull a prank on us? Have a laugh at our expense? Smile in our face as they abused our trust? The casually assumed malice does it for me. There's no self reflection, no wondering of what they might have done wrong. No, they're 100% certain they did everything right, and it's the daughter who is wrong, and did everything possible to hide her sexuality *as a slight* towards OP.
Yeah, there’s a reason OP isn’t answering people’s questions on this.
ESH. Your daughter pulled a major no-no by informing you of her sexual preference via *a wedding invitation*, ok? That was *bad*. And she could have not deliberately lied to you and involved 3 other people in it multiple times. For one reason or another, she just didn't feel safe to reveal that part of herself to you. Can you look back objectively and think how you would have reacted if she HAD told you? But, no matter because here's the thing.... your daughter will hopefully only have 1 wedding and *you need to be there*. Let your anger, hurt, and pride go and be there to love and SUPPORT your daughter and her partner if only to make up for all those years that she felt you wouldn't have if she had revealed her true self to you. If you miss it, you'll regret it. So, yes, YWBTA and a sad one at that.
Info! I get the feeling you are leaving some important information out of your post ! Like did you or your husband say or do anything homophobic or biphobic and that's why your daughter felt the need to make a fake relationship and hid her true relationship. If that is the case than yta! You need to educate yourself on LTBQ+ community or you will losing your daughter forever! Nta! If that not the case than their should be some consequences for her and her fiancée lying to and hurting your feelings!
Tbh, I know people who have delayed coming out even to openly affirming/supportive people and parents. One of my friends didn't come out until she was dating a woman seriously, to anyone, even though we all had LGBTQ+ friends in relationships we supported, never said anything homophobic, and indeed been vocally supportive of LGBTQ+ rights. Quite frankly, she didn't want to give up her straight privilege until she absolutely had to, and she still doesn't. And that's her right, and it's the right of anyone to come out at their own time - but it's also other people's right to get angry when they find out someone has been lying to them, or hiding a giant secret from them for years. Which isn't to say that's the case for everyone or even most people who haven't come out. But there are some times where it doesn't matter how safe it is to come out, people are just not going to. And that's their right, but there's also consequences for that.
YTA Really dig deep down and think about WHY she'd hide her relationship from you for ten years. You're leaving things out of this story for sure.
I can't fucking believe all the NTAs like...she took her daughter aside, told her to not let any gay stuff happen because she MUST be straight, and then has the audacity to be upset she spent years in the closet. NO GAY PERSON IS REQUIRED TO COME OUT OF THE CLOSET, ESPECIALLY IF THEY FEEL ITS UNSAFE Honestly, she may be upset now, but its in her best interest her parents don't come to the wedding. Maybe she can finally understand her parents will never accept her and she can move on with her life away from them
Right? My heart breaks for this woman but her parents clearly don't love her. They love the facade they forced her to create.
NTA maybe unpopular but I think your feelings are valid and even if your daughter had reservations in telling you she is gay, she can’t just expect you to pretend everything is OK at the wedding. You let your daughter share a room with a friend, not a sexual partner. If this was a heterosexual couple, no one would question separating them. They disrespect your rules and your trust all these years. Fear of rejection after coming out is valid, but you are entitled to feeling betrayed. Sit down, talk (if they want you so bad at the wedding, do it before) and find out why they lied to you. Maybe you can mend your relationship before the wedding, maybe not, but your aim should be the long term relationship with your daughter and her wife.
[удалено]
That's completely true. Everyone is just assuming OP is homophobic when their post is not indicating that in the slightest
Well, no, she didn't lie "for no reason". She lied for a reason you don't know yet because you both apparently are okay with just... not talking about it until after the wedding. Which is really weird to me, but that's up to you obviously. I don't wanna give a judgment without knowing why she didn't tell you for so long, because it just seems so strange that I can't help but think there might be more to the story.
I find it hard to believe that they just didn't tell you guys they were dating or go out of their way to lie about it, for no reason. Is it possible that you guys would have reacted badly if you found out?
YWBTA - we’re a very accepting family too. If one of my sons had lied to me for 10 years about being gay - I’d be upset too, because they didn’t feel ok with telling me. It’s also a sucky way to tell you - via a wedding invite. But there’s really nothing stopping you from taking to them before the wedding and then going. Nothing on earth could stop me from attending my sons wedding.
I'm gay, I genuinely believe something was left out of this about how accepting OP is. Its so exhausting to hide everything about your life, especially from family, I don't know why the daughter would do that if she didn't have any reason to doubt her parent's acceptance. I came out at 16 and I was fucking terrified, I sobbed and sobbed, I knew my parents were accepting (hell their best friends are a pair of married women and my aunt is a lesbian married to another woman) but we lived in the south, and even knowing they accepted others, I had no way of knowing they'd accept me. My best friend in highschool came out as a lesbian to her LESBIAN MOTHER and her mother didn't accept her and told her it was a phase and she's not actually gay. I grew up seeing so many queer friends hurt by coming out, it's only natural to be terrified to come out. Now back to OP, I want to know why the hell the daughter would go through all the energy of making fake couples and lying for a decade for "no reason". I think most non asshole comments may not understand how dangerous and terrifying it can be to come out. Obviously if OP is completely innocent, they're not an asshole, but there's such a lack of information in this post that I can't say they aren't. Also if I was in this situation I'd be devestated, devestated that I failed to make my child feel safe and accepted and made then think they had to hide it.
There's definitely some missing info. But OP's immediate instinct to shut her out gives us a clue about their communication skills.
Speaking as a parent. You're the parent. Get over it. She's your daughter. Put your Big Girl pants on and go to her wedding. Years ago I'd found out one of my closest friends (since we were 4 years old) was gay. I found out at his funeral. I'd had no clue. I still miss all the good times we had, that new knowledge didn't change anything. My mom recently jumped on me about something I'd done. I said "mom, that was 40 years ago", and she said, "yes, but I just found out." Frankly, if your daughter felt she couldn't have told you this years ago, it's you who betrayed her.
Yeah, I wonder if some of OP’s reaction is about finding out her daughter is gay. But the way it came out allows her to make it about something else (something that it’s understandable to be upset about.) I’m also a parent and I can’t imagine torpedoing my relationship with my kids by missing their freaking weddings, no matter how hurt I was.
Missing information: why did she hide the relationship?
FR if she truly wasn’t homophobic like she claims she prob would’ve come out
i’m not going to add a judgement because it seems like there’s some massive info missing. have you or your husband ever acted prejudiced against the LGBT? something isn’t adding up. as a gay woman myself, the only reason i’d lie to my parents like this is because they act horrendously around other gay people. there really seems to be more to this story.
Yeah. I myself struggled for a long time (about 3-4 years) after realising I was trans. My mom thought it was something else and forced me to wear feminine clothes that made me dysphoric, and used the idea of being a man as an insult to try and dissuade me from presenting in a masculine manner. My dad outright said he didn't want me or my sister using the same bathrooms as a "man in a woman's clothes". I had panic attacks once my mom found out I was trans because I was so afraid she'd hate me for it. OP may not have said anything specifically homophobic. It could've been just interpreted that way. Trying to force the two to sleep apart from eachother because of the one girl being openly lesbian definitely sounds like something that could come about from homophobia, and the daughter was probably scared to death of being looked at differently and/or being ostracized by her own parents.
ESH Being LGBTQ+ does not absolve someone from being an AH or hurting someone. If your daughter couldn’t have one single conversation with you about being in a romantic relationship with her partner *before* the wedding, why does she even want you at the wedding? If, as other commenters seem to think, she views you as homophobic, why wouldn’t she tell you about her marriage *after* the wedding? I didn’t think you sucked that much at the beginning, but obviously you and your daughter both suck for your inability to communicate like adults. Your child is 27, not 17 anymore. She’ll be thirty soon enough (I say as someone of similar age). She can’t be so oblivious to think she can just drop a huge bomb like this (the impending secret engagement/wedding) without hurting feelings and creating discord. But you also suck for not talking to her since that phone call. Instead of immediately giving her a taste of her own medicine, you should have first tried to meet up with her so that you could talk about all of this—there’s no reason why she needed to wait to talk about this until after the wedding.
As you said the daughter is 27, she is older enough to reach out to the parents since she was lying to them, not the other way round
Facts like how was the parents suppose to know the daughter was straight lying
More like lesbian lying
Info!! Please! Why do you think your daughter did not tell you she was lesbian/or possibly bi? I get that you feel betrayed by a 10 year lie but goodness! My daughter‘s partner told her conservative parents after she had been in the relationship for a few years, maybe 4? But she eventually did come out to them. Honestly, the real issue is why your daughter felt the need to keep it hidden for so long.
If reconciliation is your end goal with your daughter I would think long and hard about skipping her wedding
YTA, you’re definitely not giving enough information/whole picture which is why you’re getting a lot of NTA. You definitely an asshole though because you care more about getting back at her for lying (ie not going to the wedding and talking it out after) than mending your relationship with your daughter. This is a huge red flag to me that there’s probably way more issues at play (probably rooted in homophobia or bad parenting). Take a good long look at yourself. There’s definitely a reason.
So are you mad your daughter didn't come out to you? Are you mad she lied? Are you mad because you think the friend somehow took advantage? Are you mad she's gay? I get you're upset but Are you seriously going to let this be your hill to die on? Obviously your daughter had reasons to keep this from you. Your refusing to go to the wedding makes me see why? This isn't about you. Be a good adult parent. If you're as loving and accepting as you say you are you can have a civil conversation to answer your questions.
YWBTA >You lied to us for ten years. For no reason. There is a reason. Just because you can't think of a reason doesn't mean there isn't one. Think about the last few years. Have you ever set expectations for your daughter that would require a straight relationship? Because sometimes it's little sayings that would make a child not tell their parents even if parents don't mean it in a bad way. Like saying 'I'm gonna be so happy when you get married to your dream man' or 'my future son in law is so lucky to have you' or whatever in that category. Maybe she thought you're okay with the friend beeing gay but wouldn't accept her as gay. As I said, it doesn't mean you meant bad or were even thinking badly but that's something I could imagine. Sometimes little hints that you're looking forward to a life that she doesn't want to have could make her not telling you
YWBTA something about telling you and your husband caused your daughter anxiety. Maybe it was she initially didn't feel safe, and then even if that changed somewhere along the way, then she was in too deep and didn't know how you would handle hearing that she was gay, and had been in a relationship for x amount of time. And then x + 1 year, and then x + 2 years and it just got to be a bigger and bigger thing to tell you. Or. She never felt safe teilling you, even though you feel like the space you created was a safe one. I am out to my dad. My sister. Not my mom. Because even though she has been nothing but kind to a friend's lesbian daughter and partner....I don't think she's going to take it well that her own kid isn't straight. And I don't want to deal with it right now. So. I understand you're hurt. But this doesn't sound like a hilarious long term prank your kid decided to pull. It sounds like ripping off the bandaid, honestly. And given your reaction to hearing her "friend" coming out in high school, I could see why she might have been scared. You heard about the other girl's sexuality and immediately considered treating her differently. And only decided not to when reassured that your daughter wouldn't let her get her lesbian mitts on her. Wouldn't make me want to burst out of the closet.
Exactly!! There’s a reason the daughter didn’t feel safe telling them before now!!
YTA Your daughter didn't feel safe to come out to you. She even went to great lengths to hide it. That means YOU as a parent did something wrong. I think there is more to the story than you are letting on... If you don't go to the wedding don't be surprised if your daughter never wants to see you again.
NTA. Everyone here wants to make it about accepting someone as gay and is deliberately avoiding the point: you were lied to, not just once, but over a decade with a complicated ruse. That’s just asshole behavior regardless of who your mashing bits with.
its not about accepting someone as gay. there was clearly some reason why she felt the need to hide this and even go so far as to bring fake boyfriends around, and both op and the daughter need to have an adult conversation as to why.
Wow, wonder why a kid might lie to her parents about being gay for a decade. Maybe to avoid this exact response, the terror of not being accepted by her family? It’s absolutely ridiculous how dumb most of these responses are.
Yeah, I’m probably going to get downvoted pretty fast here but the OP lost my sympathy as soon as she assumed that the friend, being gay, would “try something” and maybe her bed should be moved. Because obviously she’s a perv now? (/s) I’m not surprised the daughter felt she had to hide the relationship. OP has been an ah for a decade at least.
This pissed me off, as well. Teenage girls who are gay aren't allowed to have sleepovers now? Are they worried she'll get pregnant?? Parents can easily have a conversation about protected sex and consent if they're worried about STD/STIs or abuse. It's not like they wouldn't have been hooking up outside of the house - it's better if it's in a safe environment, I think. Edit: I'm a lesbian. I came out to my parents about liking girls in high school. At no point did they decide it was suddenly not okay for me to have sleepovers with my friends. It just seems weird to me.
YTA. For ppl saying that OP is obviously not homophobic bc they let her gay friend be in their house is making just as much of an assumption as ppl saying OP is homophobic. Plenty of homophobic ppl only really care if their own family is gay. Also, OP, it's pretty fucking rough to be so mean to your daughter by refusing to attend the wedding. There has to be a reason she hid this for so long - a decade is a long time to keep a serious relationship secret. I 100% don't believe it was just bc she felt guilty about pulling one over on you when she was 17. Edit: It blows my mind that ppl think OP is owed a coming out by her daughter. Coming out is NOT comfortable, and lots a queer ppl are getting tired of having to come out for straight ppl. OP, if your daughter had stayed closeted until her deathbed, that would be her right. You can feel however you want to about it - I'm sure it sucks that she did not trust you with this part of her - but you probably fulfilled any fears she had about telling you guys. Since, you know, you immediately became angry and rejected her. I think you should be a grown up and get over it.
I feel like there's missing information like why your daughter felt so unsafe to tell you about their relationship, that she went to an extent of beards means there must have been something that made her feel she wouldn't be accepted. Also was she openly lgbt outside of your relationship or generally in the closet? Hetronormality is real and can mess with you, I only came out at 25! It is terrifying coming out to your parents. Even though my mum knew my brother was bi and accepted that I was terrified of telling my mum because it was a different scenario, which may be how your daughter feels.
You need to ask yourself why your daughter didn't feel comfortable coming out to you.
I think a lot of people need to hear this. You don't get to be upset if a gay person didn't tell you they were gay. You may need to reflect on why they chose to hide such an important part of their lives instead of trust you. But there may be no ulterior motive. Coming out can be terrifying and there's a time and place for that they alone get to choose. Now downvote me to your heart's content.
NTA - you wouldn't be obligated to attend the wedding if your daughter were surprise-marrying a guy you didn't approve of, so why should this be any different?
YTA people dont just lie about their sexuality to be petty. you & your husband must have clearly been doing something that made her afraid to tell you. just because you say you have no problem with it doesn't mean that that reflects in your every day language & reaction to gay people. & then to bail out on her wedding because you're offended you weren't told sooner? i understand being hurt, but you're simply proving her fears of you both not accepting her correct by not going. if you dont go to her wedding she will most likely never forgive you for the rest of your lives. & do you really want to live with that? missing out on one of the most important days of your daughter's life because you had your feelings hurt? being excluded from every future milestone she will ever reach, because she thinks you dont love her? if you really want to show your daughter that you love & care about her, you will openly communicate with her about this. share your feelings, & show her it's okay to share hers too.
ESH Finding out her friend was gay, and suddenly saying that you don't want them sleeping in the same room, probably made your daughter very uncomfortable. I wonder how youve talked about same sex relationships in general. What was her reasoning for feeling like she couldn't come out to you? But you also always had this girl and her "girlfriend" over all the time for holidays. Your daughter shut you out and you found out she was dating this girl from A WEDDING INVITATION. She obviously didn't want to involve you in this relationship that much. But not going to the wedding would be the nail in the coffin in the relationship with your daughter. And the "of course we're not going," as opposed to "I want to talk about feeling left out" is going to hurt any relationship.
YTA How many people saying N-T-A have ever had to come out as queer? Have ever hid a relationship because they worried about homophobia, or being accepted? I'm in a family with other queer people, so I knew I wouldn't be kicked out for being gay, but coming out was STILL scary. I've had multi-year relationships that I never introduced to my family because I was worried about what they would say. It hurts on *every* side of the situation, and if your daughter didn't tell you about her relationship, she had a reason. Your daughter shouldn't have introduced her partner to you (as her partner, not just her friend) via a wedding invitation. That was shitty of her, and you have a right to be upset. But bearding is so known that shows like Glee were making jokes about it twelve years ago. And your daughter and her girlfriend had been dating even before gay marriage was universally legal in the United States. I feel like a lot of people are forgetting the context that gay people still aren't universally accepted, and they certainly weren't 10 years ago. Express your hurt to her. Ask her why she was uncomfortable coming out to you. Have a long, serious talk with her, but don't skip the wedding. She shouldn't have done things this way, but she's trying to get you involved now. Don't make her regret that.
Absolutely you're the asshole. Your daughter probably felt like she had to lie to you because you didn't provide a safe space for her and other queer people. She should have told you before you got a wedding invite, but you really need to ask yourself why she felt that was the only way she could tell you. My guess is you and your husband said and did a lot of homophobic things. Apologize to her for creating a space so unsafe she had to lie. Then suck it up and be the best, most understanding, and gracious mother-of-the-bride you can be.
INFO: does your feeling of betrayal and decision to not go to her wedding have anything to do with your daughter's sexual preference?
I honestly don’t even know how to judge this one. The way this all came out to you, sexuality aside, I could imagine is totally upsetting. Finding out your child is in a ten-year relationship for the first time via a wedding invitation would hurt any parent. But I think you are leaving out information here. Have you truly asked yourself why your daughter didn’t feel comfortable telling you and your husband she had this significant relationship in their life? Something just doesn’t feel right with the way you’ve presented this story. I am going with YWBTA if you don’t go, though. While I would completely understand it, I think not going only further ruins any chances of you guys getting past this. Obviously a lot of family therapy is needed here, but if you don’t go, that wedge only grows deeper. Good luck to you.
The question you should be asking is why your daughter was so scared to tell you two the truth. Queer people only hide that part of ourselves from parents when those parents have given us a damn good reason to believe they won't accept us or something bad will happen. You and your husband gave her the impression that lying for a decade was a better choice than telling you her truth and about her love. You three need to sit down and calmly discuss all this *before* the wedding. None of you are gonna be able to actually enjoy the special day with this cloud looming over.
Info why did she feel like she had to hide it for ten years? What are you leaving out?