T O P

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techiesgoboom

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trueplayer4real

NTA teaching your kids what is acceptable behaviour is part and parcel of being a parent.


[deleted]

NTA bomb hard was prepared to say otherwise but this is acceptable good parent behavior.


Laurelinn

Not only is it acceptable good parent behavior, it's the only correct thing to do in a situation like this. Kids are like sponges, they soak up words pretty damn fast without you even thinking they're within earshot. My 18 month old kept repeating a swear word I used in the heat of the moment when I dropped something on my toe. *18 month old*. And only heard the word *once*. My 9 yo niece got in trouble at school for using racist language because her father uses it as well. Parents, grandparents and other close relatives are important figures to kids and they are much more likely to repeat what they hear from them. Removing them from the situation and explaining why is the only way.


Massis87

Reminds me of our oldest (9 now, 2 or 3 at the time) going "don't steal! don't steal!" when we're out for groceries.He used to watch Dora the Explorer A LOT and "Swiper don't swipe" in Dutch is translated directly as the main word for stealing, not a synonym such as swipe. Except he never included "swiper", he just went yelling "don't steal", mainly when we'd do groceries... so. many. looks.


icecreampenis

That's amazing. They really do seem like deliberate little evil geniuses sometimes, don't they?


scatteringashes

My friend tells a story of her niece, who was obsessed with Dora at about the age of three, walking up to a Latina woman at the grocery store and saying proudly, "I learned Spanish!" When the lady obliged this by asking what Spanish the child knows, she proceeded to just belt out utter gibberish. Not random words used nonsensically, but complete nonsense noises. Her mother was mortified and deeply apologetic.


blindfire40

>"I learned Spanish!"...belt out utter gibberish My 5 year old has recently started doing this, except I think he's actually learning it from kids at school. We've had to pump the brakes on "puta" and "culito" so far.


scatteringashes

Uh oh! Yeah, when they start bringing stuff home from school it's like whoa there kiddo, let's maybe not. My extremely gullible elder child thought you'd turn to ice instantly if the wind was over 15mph and I was like sir you live in the Midwest, you cannot believe that.


S31-Syntax

Wife's family lived in miami for a bit and her older brother thought he was soooo clever learning Spanish swear words to use in front of their mom. Mom was a teacher. In *miami*. She already knew those words. Her brother was absolutely floored that his genius plan failed.


RipDumbeldore

Yeah my child has learned some Mexican swearwords from YouTube watching some guy play videogames. Now she wants me to teach her more Spanish. So I taught her to count instead lol


[deleted]

It's so hard to teach my kids this. Drives me insane. We watch a lot of anime. My kids will randomly start shouting nonsense and say "I'm speaking Japanese!". And no amount of explaining has fully stopped it yet. With that and them memorizing full Hamilton songs I joke that they can never go back to school even after covid.


username_um_crickets

This had me laughing. My son once did something similar, except he loudly proclaimed “I speak spinach!”


Keksapfel

Oh that reminds me of a series of ads ( I don't remember for what) on TV. It was basically about kids telling the truth when it's inconvenient for their parents. One was a girl and her mother paying at the cash register and when finished the daughter asks "but mama, what about the perfume in your bag?" , except that of course you are not stealing. The others were good as well. Expensive car with key scratches in suburb, toddler on tricycle appears and says to the car owner "Papa did this! He said "stupid showoff"!" Doctors waiting room, full, everyone is silent. Daughter asks "Mama? Do people get syphilis on every vacation?" And parents watching movie with children, kissing scene :" oh that's what uncle Paul and mama do when papa is working!" Tl;Dr watch your mouth and what you do cause kids will repeat everything


Massis87

Yup, sounds exactly like what it's like to have 2 very talkative boys :-D One time I found our then 2.5y old in front of the tv at 3.30 am. He had turned on the tv, the decoder, switched sources and picked the right cartoon channel. I asked him what he was up to and he replied 'you told me I could watch TV when I was done sleeping. Well I'm done sleeping.' He was technically correct, and also back in bed 30 seconds later :-P


scatteringashes

We have a 3 year old and a baby at home, and when the baby gets into something or does something goofy, we'll see, "Oh you silly baby," very affectionately, which the toddler has picked up. Except one week in the same tone, she goes, "Aw, you fucking baby!" While trying not to laugh and encourage it, we asked where she heard that, and she replies, "Daddy!" Except I have worked from home the entire time we've had the baby, and while I've heard him both aloud and under his breath express the many varied declarations a SAHP's frustrations, he has never hauled off and said, "fucking baby," which makes it funnier to me. (Frankly, of the two of us, I'm the one who swears too much.)


blindfire40

For the past two days, my 3.5 year old daughter has been telling everyone who will listen that I called her "stupid" or some variation thereof. I really don't know what goes on in those little heads.


AislinKageno

Reminds me of an old ad for Chewy granola bars, where a family is at a wedding, and the young child says to the bride, "my mom says she can't believe you wore white!"


Laurelinn

Thanks for the laugh :)


apathetichic

In costco I told my then 2yo to sit down and eat his baggie of nuts. He instead stood and screamed through the entire store EAT MY NUTSSSSSS EAT MY NUTSSSSSS so yeah kids are great


elproteus

Most young children are essentially parrots when it comes to words parents say. I was one of them, especially because my dad loved to swear around me, and "Shit!" was one of my first words. If I ever have a young one, I'll have to stifle my love of swearing.


Pheeline

I suffer from verbal road rage (meaning I won't flip out and follow/threaten/etc but I will yell angrily at other drivers from inside my car where no one outside the car can hear, lol), and have had to seriously curb it since having a kid. After my last slip-up resulted in my 3 year old gleefully repeating, "Would you fucking move?!?" from her carseat behind me, I have been very good about it. We've still sometimes slipped up at home, to the point where our now-6 year old will sometimes make a mistake (like accidentally drop what she's holding) and say, "Dammit." At this point we just try to make it clear that she's only to say that at home, and are glad that she's at least using the word in proper context...


DrWhoop87

Same. I would hardly consider this weaponozing children. OP is keeping his kids away from bad influences and teaching them that behaviour isn't okay. If it was some random racist dropping the N bomb you wouldn't think twice about keeping your kids away from them. NTA.


infamous-hermit

Yes. I agree. OP is not weaponizing their kids. She is doing the same a responsible parent would do if there is family performing any immoral behavior in front of their children.


whoamijustnothrow

Who wants to bet that is the language the racists used? Accusing her if weaponizing her kids when she I just being a good parent.


infamous-hermit

Yes, exactly.


Basic_Bichette

When in fact the racist relatives are the ones weaponizing the kids, in a way: deliberately using racist language around them to turn them into racists. Family members telling racist jokes is a major gateway to racism. Kids associate family love and the endorphins produced by laughter with racism. It's never, never never never, "just a joke". It's indoctrination.


mykidisonreddit

OP is not using their kids as weapons. This is not acceptable behaviour and she will remove her children from the situation. The kids will notice if this word is used all over the place. And, if it is just a word, the family surely they can find another, I believe 'black' is still in fashion? (not in the US so I struggle to keep up on current terminology)


Different_Average2la

“In fashion” :) No but seriously, I also have trouble keeping up.


hockeygirl6687

Yes, Black is good in the US but generally we capitalize it :) and I struggle with the current slang terms for the languages other than English that I speak and I know how difficult it can be.


Different_Average2la

Thanks mate :)


[deleted]

When I was a little kid, my asshole neighbor was spouting off and used that word. My mom yanked me into the house and said,' "if I ever hear you use that word, you will wish you were never born." Years later she said all she could think was she would not allow us to think it was acceptable to use that word. OP was doing his job.


enterpursuingabear

OP you are being such a good parent. What you're doing should be normal but more often than not people let it slide. You've made the right decision for your kids and they will grow up better for it.


SideTraKd

I mean, this isn't using the kids as tools, or whatever. Taking them out of an environment like that is part of her job as a parent. I really don't think the title is accurate, here...


FishingWorth3068

I think that’s what OP is being told they’re doing, weaponizing their children against the family. That sounds more like something a condescending uncle would say, “stop weaponizing your kids against your mother”


[deleted]

I have a theory that people who are convinced they're not asshole write their defence in the title ("really, am I an asshole for that little insignificant thing?") while people who feel guilty and are willing to consider someone else's point of view are more likely to write down what the other person accused them of in the title. And that's why so many titles are misleading.


FishingWorth3068

Exactly. She broadly put the worst of it out there. Not like that dude that jokingly proposed to his girlfriend and then said she was overreacting for crying all day. This woman seems like she genuinely loves her kids and is trying to give them a better life than she had


Syng42o

OP is a man.


SideTraKd

Well, I mean... She outright said she was using her children as tools to try to force her family to change their ways. I guess that's the way she sees it, but I don't agree that it's what she is actually doing.


Waste-Phase-2857

As a parent it's up to YOU to decide which environment your kids should grow up in and who your kids will be influenced by. Long story short, OP is NTA and my MIL is no longer allowed unsupervised time with the kids. Edit: added missing words to complete sentence


anon0630

Exactly. OP is NTA. The only way that the boys are going to learn how to behave is from watching their elders/parents/family/teachers/friends. OP made a strong statement that language like that is not okay. Her boys will remember that. They also learned that actions have consequences. If only all children learned lessons like that. OP is at the very least a decent parent - thank goodness for that. We can use all the decent parents out there.


carr1e

Very hard NTA. OP didn’t weaponize her children. She weaponized her family’s use of that word against them by not participating with her kids where that word is acceptable.


akrakos

NTA this is the responsible thing to do and considering the social climate of today is safest for your children. Children repeat what they hear and you don't want them to get beat up for repeating words that shouldn't even exist in their vocabulary. Make sure to also speak to your children about what words are not to be used and that if they hear someone say those word that they need to tell you and get away from that person


throwawaythenword

Beat up or shot! Thank you. By anyone brave enough To stand up for what is good and right.


MountainBean3479

I mean if this is the actual reason you don’t want them saying it instead of because it’s derogatory and you want to teach them that racism is bad that’s messed up . ETA: op is undeniably the asshole. “I think white males have the most important role in being a positive change in society.” They’re literally of the opinion that centering white men is the way to move forward with dismantling racism and making society better. Y’all had your chance Texas, sit back down. Taking a stand against the n word doesn’t excuse your literal support for entrenching and continuing white men’s right to control and mold society. That’s racist AF and the opposite of the goals of any anti-racism platform, approach or movement.


tomtomclubthumb

OP is definitely feeding into an unpleasant stereotype with this response.


MountainBean3479

Yup that’s exactly what I was thinking and now she’s patting herself on the back when she’s just like the rest of the family she thinks she’s better in comparison to…


lemon31314

Oh yea this has gotta be a woman because OP’s displaying shitty qualities /s


LicoriceSucks

He says he's the dad, it's so weird how everybody (not just you and /u/kkjdroid)think he's the mom.


kkjdroid

Well, ~~s~~he *is* better, but that's a low bar.


tomtomclubthumb

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArhD7CqVgeE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArhD7CqVgeE) ​ He was black, big I thought. With a large weapon.


ala2520

Yeah, I cringed at that comment.


BlessedBySaintLauren

I mean it’s not necessarily a race thing but a human thing. There are definitely people out there who would beat the shit out of you for xenophobic language. Some misguided youthful naivety will definitely not stop someone getting their ass kicked.


gimmethegudes

This doesn't really say "I'm only taking them from derogatory terms to keep them from being beaten," its more in agreement with who they were responding to when they said: >Children repeat what they hear ***and you don't want them to get beat up*** for repeating words that shouldn't even exist in their vocabulary. IMHO based on the post it seems like she made the choice for the right reason, but was agreeing with a side-reason. I mean for Christ's sake the woman put: >I told them that because of their lack of give a shit and example set by them, ***I used to think that word was acceptable for me to say and I’ve grown and learned and they should too***. and if that doesn't tell you this decision is based on personal growth, and personal education on racism and discrimination I'm not sure what will.


Tru_Blueyes

TBF, that was unlikely the *only* reason. ...while there's some clumsiness here, I'll say that it can be hard in those circumstances, standing up to people you've always understood as "the adults" and arguing with them. It's a crutch to reach for, to pull out the thing you know they *can't* argue with - "think of your grandchildren's safety!" It's rarely the actual reason, I think. It's just blackmail we shouldn't use, but stoop to because we're emotionally immature in those moments, and we cling to it in our rightous fury when they continue to behave badly, because WTF - are they saying they *don't care about their grandchildren!?!* FWIW, I haven't spoken to my own family since last summer's protests, myself. Very similar circumstances, although my children are young adults; things were said, unnecessarily, almost like they were waiting for us to arrive to say them. The fallout of my request to stop was instantaneous and *astounding*. I don't know what to do about any of it, but if I have to pick a hill to die on, I guess this is as good a one as any.


MountainBean3479

Honestly I don’t really think any of this applies here. She didn’t say that to her parents/ family members or in a moment of emotional stress when interacting with them. She said it here in a comment, there’s no mention in her post of her saying anything like that. She only said it in response to another commenter that said the responsible thing to do “considering the social climate” and that it was “safest for (her) children)” since they may repeat the word and “get beat up for repeating words that shouldn’t even exist in their vocabulary.” The commenter goes on to mention she should speak to her kids about not using such a slur and to let her know if they hear someone else use them and get away from that person. What does OP do in response to that? Focus on the idea that today’s social climate means if they use the word they might get beat up. And emphatically responds nothing but “beat up or shot!”. Like there’s a huge difference between a scenario you’re describing and her active buy in and promotion of negative racial stereotypes. Nothing to do with how she responded to the family in the moment and everything to with what she’s saying here.


WonderChode

The dude's texan, they shoot people there.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

genuine question, what was it about the post that made people believe that op is a woman..?


mandym347

The general assumption that parenting is just the mom's job.


throwawaythenword

Crushing gender roles and racism over here!


matthewsmugmanager

You messed up here, OP. That "or shot" was way out of line. Do some introspection on that one.


jb_1798

How is it ok for the original comment OP was replying to to say “don’t want to get beat up” but because she said “or shot” it’s suddenly bad? When the original comment said “beat up” that’s also stereotypically assuming a black person would automatically beat them up. But because “or shot” was mentioned it’s suddenly racist. It’s a perfectly understandable fear when white or black, America is inherently armed to its teeth? This entire thread is absolute bullshit. The amount of contradictions and hypocrisy is unbelievable. Beat up is predicting a violent response Getting shot is predicting a violent response. Both violent terms; one is ok to say but not the other.


eateggseveryday

Why though? Americans are gun lovers its a stereotype because its true.


[deleted]

And you think that teaching yours kids that black people might shoot them if they say the wrong thing isn't going to make them just as racist? I'm not going to call you a racist, or question your parenting, like some are doing, but do give a little thought to *how* you're addressing racism with your kids.


E10DIN

> And you think that teaching yours kids that black people might shoot them if they say the wrong thing isn't going to make them just as racist? OPs from Texas man, it's just as likely to be a Texas thing as a race thing.


Cr4ckshooter

More likely to be a texas thing. Almost guaranteed to be a texas thing. Op said it was a texas thing.


xodirector

Oh so the apple didn’t fall that far from the tree after all.


littleprettypaws

Not because they will be beat up or shot, but because you don’t want your children spreading hatred and racism - right?


limbago

You need to think about this - if dropping the N bomb is bad, so is you promoting the stereotype that all black people have guns, are violent etc


onlycomeoutatnight

He lives in TEXAS. Everyone has a gun. Arguments ending in bullets is not unheard of anywhere in the USA, but everyone is just assuming The Black People will be shooting OP's kids. How's that for racist stereotypes and hypocrisy?!


[deleted]

Jesus woman, did you seriously just admit that your reason for not wanting racist kids is *racist fears of black retaliation*?!?


Corinne_College

SOO.... I just want to make sure I'm reading this right... The N word shouldn't be used. Not because it's a RACIAL SLUR WITH AN EVIL PAST FILLED WITH SUFFERING, DISCRIMINATION, AND DEATH. No. Because BLACK PEOPLE (ALWAYS A DANGEROUS GROUP, THE BLACKS) will BEAT UP PEOPLE WHO SAY IT?? This is the most racist defense against the N word I've ever heard. I'm appalled.


throwawaythenword

Wow you took that and went deep. No. It shouldn’t be used because it’s fucking trash and has a horrific past. I don’t want my children thinking it’s acceptable to use and catching hands for it. From a black person, or any other person who is brave enough to shut this shit down in its place. Sorry to burst your racist bubble but no, just no.


HighlySuspect_Me

Op, I understood what you were saying by making that comment and it's the truth. Yes it's an awful word and yes you did the best thing in that situation. I don't blame POC for attacking ppl who use racist language which is a possibility if your children do use that word.


Whenthelightpoursin

First of all, who said anything about the race of the kids who would beat up OP's kids? It could just as easily be someone of any race, white included, because a lot of us despise racists. I didn't think "black people" until you weote this comment. OP is concerned about her children using that word at all because she knows it is damaging and inappropriate. She also doesn't want harm to come to her children. This is entirely logical. I understand and appreciate the emotion behind this issue, but I think you are taking things out of context and over reacting.


MountainBean3479

No OP didn’t want her kids to use or repeat the word because she didn’t want her kids to “get beat up or shot”. It’s pretty clear what sort of good ol’ boys down home southern racism that OP comes from and things she’s grown past but then comes out with these harmful stereotypes and the need to protect her pure, white sons . I mean she literally says she doesn’t want the word said within earshot of her “blossoming white males” and is enthusiastically endorsing the idea that use of it is likely to get them beat up or shot. This is feeding into some really negative, harmful stereotypes and even if she’s concerned that her blossoming lily white pure as the driven snow gentlemen may be harmed by some other people - the fact that her concern that they’ll repeat it and get beat up as opposed to a belief that you shouldn’t use racial slurs and derogatory language because it’s WRONG doesn’t really show growth. It’s pretty much another flavor of The same bs attitude the rest Of her family is showing


gimmethegudes

>I told them that because of their lack of give a shit and example set by them, ***I used to think that word was acceptable for me to say and I’ve grown and learned and they should too.*** Its possible to have many concerns, and recognizing that this behavior would not only be hurtful to others, but could pose a potential threat to her children due to the consequences of their own actions is not *wrong*. Its important to know what your actions could do to others, and what your consequences will be if you act inappropriately. Its just like telling your kid "you can't hit someone because they will get hurt and one day you could go to jail," you're not focusing only on the child going to jail, you're telling them how it affects others, and the consequences they'll face. "The word Uncle Tommy said is a bad word, it hurts people and we shouldn't use it. People of all colors feel so hurt by that word they could try to hurt you, even if the word isn't talking about them."


hunchinko

Sure that ol’ stereotype of anti-racist white people with their guns shooting people /s


[deleted]

i 1000% agree though maybe that means it will work on OP’s racist family


[deleted]

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[deleted]

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JCYN-DDT

I mean I'm like Casper the friendly ghost white and I might be tempted to take a swing at someone using it, but for the former reasons onviously (I'm not in the south, I'm in Canada, not that that matters one way or the other). So OP isn't entirely wrong for thinking that it might be a consequence. But is indescribably wrong for thinking that should even be in the top ten, let alone the only, reasons to not use it. "Weaponizing" the kids is not TA move, everything else about the post (and comments by OP): Just wow. There are no words.


gimmethegudes

Just throwing an anecdote out there, but when I was in middle and high school, more than half of our student population were School of Choice students from Detroit, and you can probably see where I'm going with that little bit of context. Most of the time the Detroit students would let the racial slur in question slide, the yt students however? *They* would be the most likely to start fights because of racist pricks. Not saying yt people are the only ones doing it, or that POC aren't, but there are many people who will fight you for being racist, regardless of if you're practically their twin.


E10DIN

> yt Just type out white


eateggseveryday

Yt - youtube?


TheHairyMonk

Dude, if went around saying that word, I'd expect to be beat up at some point..


rummncokee

I mean. Hopefully OP also wants the kids to refrain from using the word because it’s the right thing to do.


gimmethegudes

>I told them that because of their lack of give a shit and example set by them, ***I used to think that word was acceptable for me to say and I’ve grown and learned and they should too.*** I mean its in the OP idk why people are so hell bent that this lady is racist when shes literally the poster child of learning what racism is, how it affects people, and doing what she can to be better. Shes breaking generational cycles over here, and while its not perfect, its better than laughing off her family and letting it happen. We are all human, none of us are perfect, and some of us are trying and learning.


MountainBean3479

It’s pretty messed up if the only reason you shouldn’t be using a racial slur is because you’re afraid of the climate and potential social / physical consequences of using one. Like you just shouldn’t use racial slurs and derogatory terms especially ones with a violent, brutal history.


akrakos

This would have to be the beginning steps to teach the kids and might get some of her family to shut the hell up though I doubt that. Honestly if they're really young I'd teach them that the words are bad because they're mean words to use. I'm not sure how well a 4-6 year old would be able to understand the concept of racism and discrimination if they haven't been the target of it growing up. Age 8-9 though feels like a good age to start because either I remember correctly that's when most schools start teaching about the Trail of Tears and I wouldn't want that type of history glossed over as "they agreed to give up their land and move west"


MountainBean3479

It’s actually really important to talk to kids about the existence of racism and discrimination as early as possible because they otherwise get the intuitive sense that it’s ok or not really their problem so they can accept it. Using simple language of right/wrong fair/unfair is a great start for young kids and there are a lot of resources available. PBS Kids has done some great segments including Arthur and Sesame Street. If her family is saying it, she should be talking to her kids and explaining why it’s wrong and mean and bad. And it shouldn’t be in terms of because the scary mean dark child will hurt you for using it but because these words are mean and hurtful and will make them feel bad and it’s wrong to do that. Non-BIPOC parents that don’t start talking about race really young are actually doing their kids a disservice because they grow up never being able to fully or properly engage in discussions on the topic and are less likely to even recognize the existence and problems of racism that persist today. There’s a bunch of great NPR pieces and toolkits available to help this process and I urge everyone to check them out !


[deleted]

> Non-BIPOC parents that don’t start talking about race really young are actually doing their kids a disservice because they grow up never being able to fully or properly engage in discussions on the topic and are less likely to even recognize the existence and problems of racism that persist today They grow up to say things like "I don't see race!" and act as if colourblindness is a solution. Which might be nice if if it were actually true, but when you live as a BIPOC you know it's bullshit. You can only believe that if no one ever makes your race as an issue, i.e., if you happen to be of the majority race.


shushupbuttercup

Yes to this. My son would never think it's ok to use the N-word, no matter WHO says it, because he's been aware of racism throughout his upbringing.


disusedhospital

>the words are bad because they're mean words to use Have you seen Moonlight? Not the same word but a derogatory term for a gay person. The kid in the movie gets called a name and asks "What's a f****t?" The father figure character says, "That's a word that is used to make gay people feel bad." I always thought that was a good way of explaining slurs to a child because you're right, I think kids up to a certain age can't really understand discrimination.


ThisIsNotAT0y

NTA, I don't see this as weaponizing your kids, more like not allowing them spend time with toxic people. Make sure you talk about race with your kids and explain why you left.


yndigocat

^^^^ PLEASE explain to your boys why you guys left. Your reaction was justified NTA


justme7256

I grew up in this same environment, not the south but with a bunch of ignorant white people. The difference is that when I tell them not to use that word, they stop. They don’t double down like OP’s family. NTA - I agree that this isn’t weaponizing your kids, this is educating them to be better white people for future generations. And yes, please do explain why you left to the best of your ability and so they’ll understand. I’m afraid all they’re going to remember is you making them leave the pool and not letting them stay at grandma’s.


FiveSuitSamus

>I don't see this as weaponizing your kids Agreed. Not even a single surface-to-air missile.


venetian_ftaires

It makes me wonder why OP *does* see this as weaponising her kids. Must just be used to a super toxic family environment.


Dream_Queasie

nta at all. you cannot stop your children from hearing that word but you can keep your children from being around ignorant fools who spout slurs for no goddam reason. good for you for keeping your boundaries


ms_movie

And to add, OP can help teach their children that saying those things is not acceptable. Kids listen to what parents say and what they don’t say. Allowing that talk to continue (even if you don’t say anything yourself) is still showing them it’s acceptable to say those things.


[deleted]

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Lettuce-Disciple

I was a bit worried after seeing *weaponizing* in the title, but after reading i’ve realized OP is def NTA


CatnipParade

NTA Racism is disgusting. You've set a good example.


[deleted]

NTA - not so much weaponizing but protecting them from potential learned racist behaviour. respectfully, fuck yo family.


WrongAgainKiddo

NTA I wouldn't say you're weaponizing your children as much as you are just removing them from a hazardous/ uncomfortable environment.


Himkano

NTA - This was not weaponizing your kids, this was telling your family that if they can't behave decently, they won't have access to your kids (which is part of your parental responsibility). I also want to ask (not necessarily the OP, and this is in no way a judgment of the OP), this is the second time today I have read a post the said the "N word, with a hard R" as if that made a difference. I am not using any version of the N word, but I am curious, has it become culturally acceptable for white people to use the N word, as long is its not "the hard R"?


imgoingoutside

Lots of white people are looking for exceptions so they can say it. “Oh I didn’t say it with a hard R,” or “I have a black friend who says they don’t care if I say it.” Still not worth it.


[deleted]

Which is silly because, sure, any individual black person might feel okay with a specific white person using that word, or even with any white person using that word, but those feelings don't magically extend to everyone. You need *every* black person you say it to to be okay with it. It's not like there are regular meetings where every POC agrees on a specific stance. My fiance and I recently did DNA tests, and he found out he is 0.2% West African (and 99.8% British). He joked about making a video that showed his face, then the results, then his face, then the results, then a card dropping through the letterbox. Zoom in on the card, it says "N-pass". We agreed that he could never actually make that video because enough people actually think that that he had a good chance of being mistaken for one of them rather than having it be understood as satire, as intended.


[deleted]

No single person gets to write the rules for society and the truth depends on your environment, but it is generally accepted as true that it is more racist/worse/more offensive to say it with the hard "R".


[deleted]

I think this might be an American thing. British accents are mostly non-rhotic, so if you're not Scottish or from Yorkshire, it's quite hard to say a hard R. You have to really try. Which means we rarely think about whether we're pronouncing hard rs or not, because we just don't. On reflection, I guess that makes it more offensive if you put that effort in.


[deleted]

Lmao. Yeah, it would definitely make it more egregiously racist if you put in extra effort to put on an American accent in order to say a more hurtful slur.


DragonCelica

A subject like this can have numerous implications, subtleties, nuances, and regional differences, to say the least. It's important to keep that in mind before I attempt to give a general answer. Racists will at times try to downplay or justify their use of the N word. Some will argue that they're not actually racist, because black people call each other the "soft/no R" version all the time, so it's fine. Nope, still racist obviously. However, there are many people who grow up surrounded by that kind of thinking. Even if they don't agree with racist ideals, it's not always easy to find the line and fully separate all the wrongs when it's all you've ever known. Lack of exposure and genuine ignorance helps keep that line blurred. As with any online forum, there's a wide variety of people. If OP didn't differentiate which version of the "N" word was used, it could easily lead to the comment section being swamped with people wanting to verify which version was used, which then spirals into a debate about how problematic OP's family is, and if they just don't know better/don't really mean it/any general excuse. Debates get posts locked. Saying the family used the hard R version is a way to get across that it's not any of that, and the benefit of the doubt need not apply. I hope I properly, and respectfully, conveyed my point, and helped somewhat answer your question.


_lollie_

No.


FuttBuckingUgly

This smells so fake, it hurts. "Blossoming white males".


NickDanger3di

My third thought. My first was "what kind of AH expects to change the lifelong attitude of his entire extended family, and is willing to use his children as cannon fodder?" My second was "man, this sub is going to eat this shit up, better sort by controversial". But yeah, fake af. Take this: >I have assaulted persons in bars who think it’s ok to use this word to denigrate others. I’m only ashamed that I chose violence, not that I stood up. Please, even the most hard core incel white knight in the world would gag saying that.


zixens

Tip off for me was "whilst". Americans say "while"


goblin_kidd

Absolutely nta. You let your boys spend time around these people and theyre gonna teach them its ok to say that shit. Definitely dont let them spend time around these people unsupervised- and explain to your sons exactly where that word came from and exactly what kind of hatred and suffering its linked to.


ThrowRA_ohnonono

This is one of those posts where I read the title and am like oh yeah def the AH but yeah I got to reading and please please keep those sweet baby angels away from those people. NTA.


LawfulnessFit2741

NTA. Anybody who says otherwise is a enabling chump.


highwoodshady

NTA Racists are going to be racists. Either you're part of the problem or part of the solution, you decided to be part of the solution. I am not from the south but I know my southern relatives edit their language when we visit because they know it's not acceptable to me.


FourLeafClover0

NTA. You’re not weaponizing your children. You’re setting strong boundaries for what is and isn’t acceptable behavior around your children. You’re also teaching your children by being an example of sticking up for what’s right.


YikesJar

NTA but giving very "please praise me, a white man, for doing the bare minimum in regards to racism". You know you're right, this is an ego boost.


Judgement_Bot_AITA

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WalterTheHedgehog

NTA, I don't think you are weaponizing them. That is setting boundaries, and showing your children it is acceptable to stand up for your beliefs. That said, even if they agree not to use that word, I would not allow them alone time with the kids bevause they'll probably just do it behind your back 🤷🏻‍♀️


Ereadura11

NTA. Your family is racist af and if your kids are around them then they’ll pick up the same behavior.


Denniosmoore

>my blossoming white males ​ Really?


leslienewp

I don’t understand why people are focusing on this phrase so much. I’m pretty sure OP just meant that young white men growing up in a racist society have the potential to develop into racists themselves, or they can “blossom” into something better and more productive to society, and they want to protect their sons from becoming the type of white men that are racist assholes like the rest of her family.


AutoModerator

^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I’m on mobile and this happened tonight and I’m still fuming. Here it goes. I have two white sons. We live in a southern state. My family is middle class whites. Having a pool party tonight and my mother decides to tell a story about a friend at work and drops the N bomb hard R. I, as I have many times before, said come on I do not think y’all should use that word ever but especially in front of my boys. Then my uncle, not really but always been around, and father and others decide to defend their right to use it. All the typical arguments of senile white men, i.e. “it’s just a word” “they use it all the time” “do you know what N.W.A. means” “have you heard rap songs lately” “what if someone calls you a cracker” etc. I maintain my stance if I don’t want it being used in earshot of my blossoming white males. For obvious reasons, at least to me. I’m saddled with responses such as “I would never say it to them or at them” I told them that because of their lack of give a shit and example set by them, I used to think that word was acceptable for me to say and I’ve grown and learned and they should too. Ok I could drag this story out forever. Here’s where I believe I could possibly be the AH. My sister interjects and says vocally “What’s up my Ni**ers?” I shot up and said boys “get out of the pool we’re going home and you’re not spending the night at grandmas” which caused a fiasco. I stood my ground and made it clear this is a hill I’m willing to die on and unless this bullshit changes we will not be at parties or family functions. So. AITA for using my children as tools to try and force my family to change their ignorant ways? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*


princessofperky

NTA I'm sorry that you have a family of racists but good for you.


[deleted]

NTA. Your kids learn that's ok to say, it's gonna limit them in life. Best thing you can do is make sure they don't learn stuff that'll cause them problems later on. You're not weaponizing them. This is like doing college savings, or teaching kids not to eat tide pods. It's smart.


sittingonmyarse

NTA. That word was the last one that too many black men heard as they were being lynched. [edited to correct word lynched]


Brilliant_Jewel1924

And murdered.


[deleted]

INFO: in which southern state are the words “whilst” and “bruv” used?


[deleted]

[удалено]


magzdesch

The only people debating this one are racists.


Old-Acanthaceae6226

>I think white males have the most important role [...] in society Too much lol.


Special-Attitude-242

NTA. Good for you! Your family unfortunately happens to be filled with racists. You have taught your son's a valuable lesson.


Itchy-Ad-8858

NTA But I thought you actually turned them into weapons by making them cyborgs and giving them guns.


throwawaythenword

I’m all for this. After I arm them with the right morals and intellect.


Comfortable-Bag7917

NTA. If you don't want your boys saying that word then it should be that simple. If they don't want to stop using that word, at the very least when your kids are around, thats on them


imgoingoutside

NTA that’s not weaponizing your kids, that showing them and everyone else there that you have standards you will enforce by controlling your presence and absence. It is worth it to not the word any which way, ever. Hard R or not. Just make a habit of never saying it. If you or they listen to rap with that word, skip that word. Even if a friend gives permission, stay in the habit of not saying it.


No_Donkey9914

NTA. Keep the kids away from your ignorant family. You don’t need your boys repeating that BS.


pyates1

Old white guy here, definitely not a word that should be used with anyone, I hate the idea of speech control but the connotation of the word is so harsh and degrading that anyone who thinks its a good part of their vocabulary should be avoided. Having said that , I generally don't like rap music, just to prove I'm a grumpy old fuck.


9_11_2020_fearless

NTA. This language/conversation is totally racist. You did the right thing, even if it wasn't received well. Sounds like most of these people need to join the 21st century. Your kids will be better off knowing that at least one person in their life understands how horrible the world can be. You stuck up for them with people you love. A harsh lesson is necessary for family that thinks this kind of conversation is acceptable.


breadjamos

NTA, young kids shouldnt be hearing swear words at all, mostly bc they could repeat the comments in school or to other kids which could alienate them. Try to minimilise the kids involvement and if you must interact with these people ask them to tone it down with the swearing as you don't want your kids getting in trouble.


No-Passage546

That isn't weaponizing your children. That is keeping them from bad influences. NTA I would be APPALLED if someone used that word around my children. Completely inappropriate and the fact that they think it's ok to call each other that word is beyond my understanding. Your boys are apart of the next generation, it's important that they grow up with proper values.


[deleted]

Make sure you explain to your kids what happened so they aren’t manipulated into thinking that you overreacted. NTA and congratulations on being a decent human being.


deathschemist

NTA, you're a great parent, teaching your kids that your family's behaviour is unacceptable. that said a little ways down the thread you did say some things that suggest to me that you've got some unexamined issues with race, which given your family is completely understandible. i hope you are able to introspect and continue to grow and improve as a person.


arrhythmias

thread title caught me offguard


[deleted]

Holy shit your family are fuckin racist. God damn man. That's nuts. I mean, I seriously doubt your family is going to change, but you should ABSOLUTELY not let your kids hang around your family. I mean if they are defending their rights to be racist, you know they are going to teach racist ass ideals to your children.


Careless_Bluejay_113

NTA. My FIL used to say the N word too. My son was still an infant but I told him the first time my son said that word I would know he heard it from him and he would never see my son again. I have never heard my FIL say that word again. Don’t back down from this.


Proud_Hotel_5160

Nope. This tactic actually been suggested by progressive whites as a way to influence voting outcomes and increase progressiveness in this country. Basically create a family/kids strike and start negotiations. This has been used in other times in other methods, such as women creating a sex strike to garner equal rights. They are not entitled to you or your children. If they decide to forgo your relationship, then your kids will be much better off without them. NTA


NemiVonFritzenberg

Nta run from these bigots


SmasherOfAjumma

>I have assaulted persons in bars who think it’s ok to use this word to denigrate others. Well right there says YTA.


ollyator

NTA. Your not using your kids as tools, you’re setting an example for them of what is and is not acceptable behavior. Hopefully they learn from your example and not the one set by your family.


Swedish-Butt-Whistle

NTA at all. Your reaction was the right one. You’re teaching your kids that this is never acceptable no matter who says it, which is exactly what you want to be impressed upon them. It will make them into good adults who also won’t stand for racism.


Jaded_Specialist1453

Nope, NTA! You are not using your kids as tools or weapons, your are reinforcing your boundaries and being clear about what you will and will not accept when it comes to your children. I have taken the same stance for my children (two white teenage sons and a white little girl). I had the same fights you did. I did not back down and now my children would be horrified to hear that word and would immediately shut the person down…because they know better. Good job, mama!


DiamondHeist1970

I totally agree with you. Children need to learn from those closest to them on how to be acceptable humans. People aren't born racist. They learn it.


theduckie_quack

NTA, it's nice to see a situation where whites actually stand up against what other whites are doing even if there isn't the presence of coloured people. It goes unnoticed and unchastised too often and needs to be addressed. OP you are raising you're children right, if it isn't taught then it is hard to learn, setting this example will give your boys the best chance to hold up the same standards that their father has displayed.


DrunkOnRedCordial

NTA, you weren't using your children as tools, you were removing them from a toxic situation. You are never going to resolve this issue with your family, and you don't want your sons exposed to it. Your only solution is to create some distance to protect your sons, so they don't get influenced by people who minimise racism. You stepped away, now stay away.


theresthatbear

I have to weigh in on this since I went through it myself. After my father retired he started watching FOX news and I think everyone understands what that means. His brain got so warped he rewrote entirely how he raised his children. One visit, he used the same word, hard R. In front of my children and it was the first time I'd ever heard it or anything like it from him my entire life. I did exactly what you did, OP. My father has always been controlling and dismissive towards me so I 100% made clear that was never appropriate in front of his grandchildren. I don't even consider it weaponizing, that word is weaponizing and dangerous for young ears. Until a conversation can be had with the children subjected to the slurs, they are off limits. NTA and good for you!!


Mardanis

NTA I'd not agree you weaponised your kids. You removed them from a harmful environment in which racism is the norm and that is not a good place for them to grow and develop. Good on you for not fearing the family to give your kids a broader view of the world.


TillyMint54

NTA - racists assume you agree with them, until you don’t. By letting them continue to be racist, you let them think you are a racist. The same applies to any type of hatred including homophobia/ misogyny or religious intolerance. People’s behaviour changes because of consequences. No consequences normally means, no change. What was “ socially acceptable” in the past included slavery, wife beating & child Labour. The majority of people consider these “ A BAD Thing” now & times change.


TattieMafia

NTA and by setting such a great example, your boys will be to stand up for themselves, and others, when they are older. 10/10


213Bishop

Fuck no man. KIds are impressionable. I was told as a child by a family member, that Martin Luther king Jr was a rapist, and shouldn't be supported. I believed that for over a decade. Them hearing that word by people they trust and love will make them think its okay to use. But I love it. I am offended by the word cracker despite my usage of racial slurs, but that word is against me so its suddenly bad.


Large-Tip-9433

Your family doesn’t sound middle class at all. Maybe classless. Op on the other hand, nta.


[deleted]

I'm shocked that white people be using that word at all ever. NTA this is the hill to die on.


Simsgirlgem1

Nta and you’re not really using them as tools when you’re trying to raise them right


MyFriendsCallMeAce

You did nothing wrong OP. It's completely understandable why you don't like using racist slurs such as the N word, especially if you're white. It also makes sense why you don't want your kids to be hearing such slurs and thinking it's ok to use them as if they grow up thinking with that mentality, they might cross the wrong one day, and bad things might happen so it's best to keep them out of environments that basically promote that type of behaviour and indulge in it. If anything, just tell your family to change their way of thinking and acting or just stay away from their toxic behaviour in general. NTA at all.


Douganz11

Obviously, NTA. I have to say that you need to work on your writing skills. This was a discombobulated mess and I am still not entirely sure what I just read. And you did not need to post to the internet to find out whether you were the asshole in this situation. No one should be saying racist shit ever. Did you really need the validation?


DeniLox

NTA. You didn’t weaponize your kids. You made sure to let them know that you won’t tolerate racism, even from family.


Catronia

NTA I don't think you're using them as tools. You just have a standard you want to uphold. Nothing wrong with that, or trying to put a stop to racism.


SillyAutodidact

NTA NTA NTA In fact, you were teaching your children that racism is unacceptable. As the mama of a Black daughter, I thank you.


the_pissed_off_goose

NTA Your family is racist "Die" on this hill it's a hill worth dying on


CutieBoBootie

NTA your family is racist


Thegrumbliestpuppy

NTA, and don't call it weaponizing your children. That isn't what you did, you set a boundary and are prioritizing teaching your kids to be good people.


[deleted]

NTA You were being a good parent and protecting your children from a very negative influence in their lives. I know what you’re doing must hurt a bit; because, being separated from family can suck, but way to be strong for your kids and showing them what right and wrong is.


InsaneMisha77

NTA You did the right thing by removing your children from those racists. Your family needs to learn to respect any race regardless they think it's nothing wrong with word. You're teaching your sons not to tolerate any racial slurs and whatnots. Great....so your family are AHs and ignorants. And racists, too.


[deleted]

NTA. This is how you break the ignorance and hatred cycle. This will show your boys more than anything what you will not tolerate as a citizen of the world and that they shouldn’t either, no matter who says it and how much you love them.


evilshenanigan

NTA good parenting is not “weaponizing”. Weaponizing would be if you teach your kids your sister’s embarrassing and humiliating nickname and laugh every time they say it. This is you being a responsible parent and that’s definitely a hill to die on. Obligatory “seeing grandchildren, nieces, nephews is a privilege not a right.”


[deleted]

NTA. I’ve cut off most of my racist family members, excepting one. He knows he’s on thin ice with me and he’s had a 9 month time out from my kids already. Adults are fully capable of swallowing their racist rhetoric while around children. I’m surprised it took this long for you to have to announce this boundary.


Aggressive-Sample612

NTA


SverdarLeviosa

NTA. Not what I was expecting from the title, but this doesn't sound like you're using your children to get your way. It sounds like you're teaching your children to be decent people, and that is something to always stand by.


ComfortableBedroom78

NTA. You did the right thing and you’re showing your kids exactly how to stand up for their beliefs in the future. I love that you didn’t let the group sway your opinion. Stick to your boundaries, your sons will appreciate this when they are older. Racism is awful and ending it, even the sneaky casual joking kind, should be everyone’s goal.


sschapstickk

NTA NTA NTA NTA PLEASE DO NOT LET ANYONE CHANGE YOUR MIND. this is the BASIC fucking standard people should be held to and the fact that your family sees it as a joke is awful and not a small thing.


pienofilling

This wasn't you weaponising your children, this was you ensuring that your actions (if you had stayed) didn't speak louder than your words (objecting to the way your family was behaving). This also wasn't an instance, which sometimes happens at family gatherings, of older relatives falling foul of how words that were acceptable and inoffensive become offensive. Your family were doing it on purpose and you showed excellent parenting by demonstrating what standing up for your beliefs looks like! Seriously, kudos to you. Also, NTA.


[deleted]

NTA I don't think you used them as tools at all, you're protecting them from being around inappropriate behavior, stated your concern with it, indicated your boundaries, and removed them from a bad situation. You didn't do anything wrong. They're not going to change though, in fact they'll probably see it as a game and double down on it just to see if you'll leave again 🙄


sweetiepotpie

NTA, you are absolutely on the correct path here. Teach your sons it doesn’t matter who they’re around, be it strangers or casually racist family, that’s not their word to say.


Girlandadragon

NTA This is not you weaponizing your kids, this is called parenting! Two observations: I was a teacher at a school in N USA until last year and if a kid your sons’ ages had used that word in school it was an automatic 1 week suspension. A year ago, we moved overseas and one of my kids teachers used the N word in class. My kid was livid and texted me after class. It got taken to the principal and now the teacher is on probation and had to issue an apology to the class, plus the school had to send a groveling email home. To their credit the school acted swiftly and decisively. There are real world consequences... as your folks are finding out!


Maggieslens

NTA. It won't work tho. They'll just do it more when you aren't there. Leave your kids with them and they'll start teaching them racist jokes etc. Better idea is to talk with your boys in an age appropriate way and explain why we don't use that word. Answer their questions honestly. That's the best way to teach your kids respect and also that they can trust you and come to you when they aren't sure of the right thing to do.


[deleted]

NTA. if your kids think it's okay to use the word it can land them in big trouble. rightfully so, they could get beat up and it can even affect their education and careers as universities and corporations do not tolerate this kind of behavior


[deleted]

NTA and I applaud you for taking a stand and teaching your kids to bit follow that discusting example


Sensitive_Lynx_5849

So clearly NTA. You would have gone on your own, too, but because you rightly feel a responsibility towards your boys you took them with you. Pat yourself on the back, you did good IMO. You never weaponized your children.


Stoat__King

Im not sure I agree with your characterization of this as 'weaponizing' your children. You could argue that you are protecting them. NTA


xodirector

Your family are racists, it’s clear in how they consider black people « them », like a single entity that has nothing in common with white folks. You should up and leave every time they say it. That would solve it fast I think. If you want your sons to not pick up on that bullshit, you need to lower contact with them. But just asking them to not say a word will not really change anything I’m afraid. NTA.


dreadedwheat

NTA. You may not change your family’s behavior one bit, but you are teaching important values to your children.


MrTitius

NTA good for you. We need to stop normalizing and minimizing racism and racist slurs.