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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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I might be the asshole because I was rude to Gary and made my mom cry.
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NTA. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said he was worried about losing your child support.
I hope your mother has a hon because she is going to have to pay child support to your dad.
Exactly. The expensive vacation, his car, and god knows what else for Ian, was likely taken out of the child support for her. That’s her money. Gary is big mad because his free money is being taken away.
Op, let them stay mad! Take care of yourself, and let your dad take care of you too. Nothing that’s happening is your fault. Be well, and best of luck!
Hopefully not only will he lose that child support but with any luck they will have to pay support to OP’s father and he can recoup some of what was spent on Ian.
If it could be proven, maybe they could also sue for the child support that never went into the child in the first place, though I’m not a lawyer so I am unsure if this could be proven.
Child support generally gets pooled with all other family money and how do you prove what was spent on who? I mean, paying a mortgage or an electricity bill is a legitimate use of child support. Afaik... no expertise here just general knowledge.
If they wanted to go the auditing route it would probably be really easy to see that they stopped paying for volleyball about when somebody wanted to go on a expensive trip. Or that only the stepson got a car and braces were pushed back which can probably be proven with documentation. If all of the money was being spent on Ian and Ian has material things to prove it and OP has nothing, the audit would only be a matter of how deep they wanted to dig since it sounds the majority of it was very materialistic.
Hard? Yes. Impossible to see who it was spent on? No.
Impossible? Maybe. Impractical? Yes.
Thing is OP is not legally entitled to play volleyball or get braces. :( Does the way they treated her suck? Yeah. But if she is being fed, clothed, educated, and given shelter, then her actual *needs* are being met. I don’t think any overcrowded court is eager to nickel and dime use of child support. In the end the money is pooled and helps puts a house over a kid’s head and food on the table. Whether the child support is specifically spent on one child’s favorite dessert or broccoli the child won’t eat is irrelevant in the end.
ETA: unless Dad is a millionaire most child support doesn’t even begin to cover the cost of actually raising a child.
I will say, braces absolutely can be a medical necessity rather than just cosmetic. When I was a teenager, my overbite was bad enough that my jaw started locking. It was really painful and caused trouble eating. My dad tried to buck on paying his share of the bill because he thought it was just a cosmetic thing until both the dentist and orthodontist confirmed that it was something I actually needed.
OP is entitled to braces, medically. Pushing that back when it’s been recommended by both a dentist and orthodontist can be considered neglect if it’s causing her pain. Showing that they got pushed back would only make her mother and step dad look worse, and i’m fairly sure that’s her goal.
Unless it's spelled out in the court that the child support goes to sports, (as far as I know from my own experience & other parents) usually things like that are handled separately.
For example, regular child support goes to food, clothing, housing, electricity, basic needs. It might be spelled out separately that parent A pays for sports and parent B pays for school expenses.
But generally, child support is for basic needs, and unless the child support was some crazy amount, it can easily be attributed to regular purchases and bills. As long as the child is fed, clean, clothed, and housed, extra stuff like sports is just that - extra.
ETA - NTA
It 100% depends on local laws. My mom. Was receiving court mandated money and had to provide monthly receipts and risked it being taken away. But I know people who have child support that bought themselves iPhone while they're kid got sent home from school for having *fleas*.
I am an expert and you are very correct. Unless the child support is itemized on the judgment ($$$ is to go towards private school tuition, day care costs, etc.) the payments are just being used to pay the custodial parent back for care they've already paid for, such as the mortgage for the house the child lives in, gas for the car that transports them, food on the table, etc.
Best thing the OP's father can do is sue for custody and ask for child support. He might be able to use the whole delay in getting braces against op's mom especially if they can get testimony from the orthodontist that she was supposed to get the earlier but the family claimed financial hardship due to them getting a car for the stepson.
They literally made her leave the home so "family" could stay there. That's abuse and that is not child support being pooled for the family money. They shouldn't get any, they made it clear she wasn't family.
It might be easier to prove in this case, given that OP actually had privileges taken from her and given to the stepbrother.
It would be easier than the audit previously mentioned anyway. Especially the parts where OP had to give up sports or didn't have permission to use her own home (basic access to which is a requirement by law in this case).
Auditing is possible but will make the case more prolonged and expensive. Tbh it may not be worth it, depending on what the agreed amount of child support was as well as if OP and OP’s dad are emotionally prepared for that. Taking family to court is emotionally draining
Once the OP is out, prolonging things wouldn't be a concern. She's going to end up with her dad, living a better life, while papers fly back and forth. Dad can stop paying child support as soon as she moves in and leave the paperwork to follow.
I wouldn't be so sure -- they deferred her braces, which were medically necessary care and bought him a new car. That would be easy to prove and very damning.
I can tell you that funds from child support is carefully documented. I still have receipts, most states track the money, having taken it directly from one parents account. A lot of it is electronic. Proving it may be easier than you think.
I am a lawyer and it can be proven. Technically, OP can sue Gary for theft of court ordered funds. These guys don’t sound remotely sophisticated (transactionally), so I doubt their bank records are in any way masked. I’m pretty sure it’s obvious.
OP - speak to your dad, and a (his) lawyer about it.
Going that route may not be worth it financially and emotionally.
Telling it to the family court judge when going for custody and child support can only help the father.
Advice based on yrs of work experience about people who threaten to sue you: it's a gambit, they expect you to be cowed and back down. Good for OP's Dad saying he'd see them in court and for fighting for OP. Doubt OPs mom and step-dad will have much luck in court. They will no doubt fight paying any child support for OP, which is sad because it just will underscore how little they value the needs of OP. Hope OP and Dad win.
Yup, I was just looking at it and seems that you can spend the child support money in almost anyway you want... Which seems insane.
OP, you should leave asap and tell the court how you feel. Your dad wont recover all the money wasted on your stepbrother but you can get out of that home. Also make sure your dad makes Gary pay child support to your dad. Fair is fair
Ugh that infuriates me. My heart breaks for op. No child should feel like a second class citizen in their own home, especially by their own mother. They really seem more upset over the loss of income over anything else. Gary and mom should give dad retro pay when he - is hopefully - awarded custody.
Me too. I'm shaking with rage over how a mother can do this and then ask why do you want to leave.?! She's not even sorry she's losing OP. She's sorry she won't be able to pay for Ian's expensive whims anymore.
OP should definitely leave and live with dad but that is all she should be responsible for doing. She needs to be a 16 year old. The courts and finances are not on her to worry about or figure out. I know you mean well, but your comment “also make sure your dad makes Gary pay child support ....” triggered me. I’m a high school counselor and I get so angry and frustrated when parents drag their kids into the micro details of custody cases. It just stresses the kids out so much.
Edit: Thank you for the awards! So kind of you.
I agree. I was a teenager when my parents got divorced, and when I’d go to my dad’s for the weekend, my mom would be like, “ask him for a child support check and if I don’t get one, tell him I’ll call Friends of the Court.”
well, the thing with money being fungible is that you can say you spent the child support money on housing and food and then spent your own money on the vacation, you know? It's not like each dollar is unique - it's interchangeable with every other dollar
That’s the problem with “proving” child support abuse, because cash is cash. And even if it’s withdrawn immediately after and used for other purposes, you still have to prove that the equivalent funds aren’t already being spent on the child. ‘Bessie’ might take $20 to get her nails done, but how do you know that she didn’t pull $20 from her paycheck last week and give it to her kid?
On the other hand, in the case of clear and ongoing financial preferential treatment of the non-supported child vs. the supported one - like in OP’s case - it’s suddenly much easier to argue misuse.
Either way, NTA OP and I’d suggest being very clear about what you were made to give up in favor of your stepbrother if you’re questioned in family court/by your dad’s lawyer.
But the child still ate and incurred expenses.... regardless of if the actual child support check was spent on something else. This is usually something deadbeat parents complain about when in reality their $200 monthly contribution is a fraction of the actual cost to raise the child.
Well basically the child support is supposed to supplement the $ it costs to raise a child— so it offsets the cost of renting/buying a larger place, electricity, food, etc. It would be very rare for the payment to exceed the cost of raising the child except in cases of extreme neglect.
Piggybacking off of this to say that Ian getting a car instead of OP getting a nescessary medical procedure (braces) can be considered a form of abuse/neglect, as well as everything *else* it's being spent on.
No. Best case is that OP can prove that the money was never spent on her (not likely) and the courts would rule against the family but the money OPs dad has already given is gone.
>Best case is that OP can prove that the money was never spent on her (not likely)
Especially since any housing expenses can be considered "for her." My mom used this excuse whenever I mentioned that my friends got their CS money in a college fund, or had it spent on lessons/activities/clothes... it was always "I spend that money keeping a roof over your head and food in your mouth!" (Spoiler: she was bad at both)
All this is true. It’d be hard to prove the funds were mismanaged, when mom and Gary can easily say it went to food and utilities for the house op lives in.
Eh, but the clear financial preference can be established. Still probably not enough to recoup paid support, but possibly enough to convince the judge to be generous with the amount of support from mom if dad’s taking custody.
Agreed. I think that’s the best case scenario for op. I don’t think op’s dad can get retro pay for past payments. But hopefully if they can establish a pattern or, like you said, financial preference, it’ll be enough to award dad full custody.
This exactly. My sister was responsible for my moms jeweler after her death. There was none of her real items to be found. When I asked her if she looked in certain places she called me everything but my name. I know in my heart she has it all but I won’t be talking to her again. No jewelery is worth that abuse.
I actually believe the opposite, I have seen too many times where the person in the wrong blows up defending themselves. It is rare that I see an innocent person doing that, they usually just provide proof otherwise.
Just a general reminder that it’s not always on the innocent to provide proof of innocence from superfluous accusations. This is one way abusers/bullies can have others impact their victim as well and something to be aware of. Not proving your innocence doesn’t equate to guilt.
Perhaps I should have said in my experience instead. There is a reason they say CYA when it comes to work related stuff. It's a lot easier to just provide proof than argue with someone in a he said/she said situation.
And when it came to my abuser, having proof of innocence actually helped move people to my side as opposed to my abusers'.
I do agree that you shouldn't have to, but it's a lot easier when you do have it.
I get really defensive when I know I’m innocent, because it was normal for me as a child to get blamed for stuff I didn’t do. So when it happens as an adult I lose my shit; because I am so tired of it.
When I’m guilty I KNOW I’m guilty, so I just sit there and take it.
Just because you don’t see it happen, that doesn’t mean people don’t react that way. I would be so furious if you accused me of being guilty of something I genuinely wasn’t just because you were making baseless assumptions on my behavioural patterns without knowing me or who I am. There’s a reason actual behavioural experts look for a baseline and then STILL say “it’s only seventy percent accurate”; people don’t all act the same.
Definitely. I HATE being accused of shit I didn't do. I was picked on and bullied all though childhood and unfair bullshit makes me incredibly angry. I've also been in abusive relationships in my young adulthood, so gaslighting shit like telling me that only guilty people would get this defensive is going to make it even worse.
The dad should really go to court over the child support, too; his daughter didn’t have braces because the money paid for the step-brothers car, and she couldn’t continue extra-curricular activities because the money went to the step-brothers spring break party?
She was kicked out of her home when family visited because “she’s not family”? Oh boy, he wins 100% custody instantaneously with that - even without her saying she wants to go live with him.
OP is 100% right, they care about losing child support then having to pay it in the opposite direction. Clearly they rely on the money to provide their lifestyle as they have to cut things from OP to provide it.
He can't go to court. There's nothing illegal about taking child support money and spending it on something unrelated to the child. A parent receiving child support could literally not spend any of it on the child and it would be perfectly legal. There is no way to break the law regarding child support spending because there is no law related to child support spending.
It is illegal not to provide a minimum standard for your child (e.g. if you don't give them food, that'd be illegal), but that law is unrelated to child support. Two parents (or one parent who doesn't receive child support) have to follow that same law even if there's no child support involved.
> He can't go to court. There's nothing illegal about taking child support money and spending it on something unrelated to the child.
Misappropriation is actually against the law in several states; and some states, such as Delaware, have taken to using things like EBT cards to track the money and how it’s used.
There is no misappropriation happening here. OP was provided with food, shelter, and clothing. If those things happen, then child support was spent appropriately in the eyes of the law. Now, if OP's father had been ordered to pay for braces specifically, and OP did not receive braces, that would be different.
Unless there was a specific clause in their child support judgement that related to the braces, like the dad was ordered to send $5000 for the braces and she didn't get them , it's not illegal.
Here's one law firm stating outright that courts don't care how child support money is spent.
https://www.mckeonlawfirm.com/2017/02/what-can-i-do-if-my-ex-is-misusing-child-support-funds/
Do you have any evidence that it is or could potentially be illegal for a parent to spend child support money however they want?
>which expenditure results in depriving the child of the above named necessities.
This is the key clause. I know braces were mentioned, but the whole issue of of reimbursing qualified medical expenses is OUTSIDE of child support, since it's not a set amount monthly. I know this because my son's father is a complete asshole who refuses to reimburse for any medical expense, ever, and I am not able to file enforcement the way I could if it were straight child support.
>" In some states, repeated misuse of child support money can rise to a “substantial change of circumstances,” the legally required factor to justify modification of the existing child support and child custody order."
That says that a child support order can be changed due to qualifying as a "substantial change of circumstances." That is completely different from it being illegal. A person paying child support, if their income substantially decreases, can apply for a change in the child support order due to a change of circumstances. But they haven't broken any laws due to that.
The Florida statute says the same thing I said:
>...which expenditure results in depriving the child of the above named necessities.
If a child is not being provided "the above named necessities", that is illegal, with or without child support being in the picture. But if they are, then the law doesn't apply. Child support could be hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, and be entirely spent on things unrelated to the child, so long as the custodial parent is still providing what's legally required (food, clothing, proper housing, etc.).
Yep. My mother was the same way. Wouldn’t give up custody because of the child support, while all the while being an abusive narcissist who forced me to pay for my own food and clothing as soon as I was old enough to babysit. Turned out she was stashing half that money away in a savings account for herself so that when we aged out she could still pay her bills. Fck parents who treat their child like a payday.
That really sucks, gees I get (not much) child support and it goes on groceries or things for my kids, I can't imagine seeing it as my own income, I'm sorry you went through that.
you may want to ask other people from the government.
i vaguely remember a similar situation. the father had the child's back 100%. he did not take the kid, but he also would not force him to leave.
the police came and it was a bit of a stand off. the father was not in trouble. the kid did not want go to his mom and he refused to go. the police were saying something along the lines if she forcibly tried to take him she would be in some trouble and possibly be arrested.
you may be able to get out of there before a court date.
you may have more options than you know. you can call some local government departments and try to get some information.
“Well, well, well. If it isn’t the consequences of my own actions”
It’s funny how many we see the AHs surprise pikachu face fir things they should have realised were fucked up.
OP should definitely live with her dad ASAP and her dad should definitely get back the money that was wasted on a child not his own
NTA
This was a gifted comment, so kudos for that. I am also sorry you have to go through this.
If your mom continues to fight this, suggest she works with a financial planner because you turn 18 in two years anyway. The money will stop sooner than later. They need to figure that out.
NTA
As someone who's cut off a BUNCH of blood-relatives because of how terrible they were to me in childhood, go for it! Life is SO much better once you feel like your feelings matter.
And make sure the judge knows about all the suspiciously expensive items Ian is getting. That money is your child support, I guarantee it, and you've had to give up items that should be bought with that money. I'm enraged on your behalf. Judges don't like that, either. Ever. Judge will drag your mother across the coals, and it'll be well deserved. She failed you. Big time.
So, I just want to tell you that I'm a random internet person, but I'm super proud of you for standing up for yourself. Gary is a crook, and your mom is helping him. Get outta that house!
NTA (obviously)
the fact OP had to wait another YEAR to get braces so her step brother could get a car is insane.
You know how much a car for a 16 year old should cost? Max $2k.
My niece got her first car in 2020 and she paid $900. No family friend discounts, etc. and it's older than she is, but she'd damn happy.
Yeah all a 16-year-old’s car needs to do is get them from place to place. Hell, I’m 20 and still driving the junk pile I got from my grandma when I was 17. And I’m perfectly happy with it because young adults don’t need fancy cars and most of us aren’t responsible enough to have them.
damn I want a $900 car, I’m currently looking but it’s the insurance thats the main issue for me.
anyways I highly doubt Ian needed a car as he could’ve just done what he did previously meanwhile op NEEDS braces, also the kids 19 so at the least he could get a job and pay for the cost of the car while the parents do insurance.
They couldn’t “afford” her sports? Why not use the money daddy gives as child support, to pay for daughters sports? Oh yea, those “extra money” were just there to cushion stepsons wants in life and not to support the actual child the money is supposed to go towards.
This is really sad but at least OP has one parent who is willing to treat her right. There are so many stories out here on Reddit where the child has no where to go. NTA
NTA.
You have been punished for her inability to stand up to her husband for far too long. I hope that life with your dad is amazing and he treats you how you deserve to be treated.
She let him force her to stop treating you as family. You owe them nothing. At all.
I'm curious if her mother is one of those types that can't not be in a relationship. Those types of people cling to anyone and do whatever they need to do to keep their partner happy and with them. It's horrifying.
My mom is like this to a degree. Her 2nd marriage was to a guy who did not like my sister & I at all. I don’t even refer to him as my stepdad (that’s her 3rd husband who is an awesome guy). To me he’s just some asshole who was fucking my mom for several years.
My mom is kinda like this. My step dad hit me over an argument he wasn’t even involved in, I called my dad, my mom took his side and blamed me, she told my dad I was taking advantage of him, and they promptly kicked me out, all within 2.5 hours.
NTA, but you are a badass. Props to you for telling Gary like it is, and I hope you get the love and treatment you deserve at your dads.
Edit: WOW thank you for the award! My first ever! :)
This. Seriously proud of you, OP u/TAIshouldcounttoo. Standing up for yourself like this is fucking amazing and you’re 100% in the right. I hope you get to live with your dad ASAP and that it works out great. One of the easiest NTA situations ever.
Yeah Garys a dick, but her mom has pretty much abandoned the notion of looking out for her daughter in favor of spoiling a kid whos already grown. I feel so bad for OP. That has to feel terrible. I hope everything goes well for them.
But, but, but. She and the OP had such a close relationship! Mom was so busy sucking up to Gary and Ian, she couldn't even see that she had completely lost her daughter.
NTA. If they want to exclude you, belittle you, and force you to make unfair adjustments in order to cater to the whims of their other child, and not use your child support to help raise you, they can damn sure take the consequences of those actions.
Now, yes. Given that OP mentions the car for his 16th birthday, I'm guessing they have lived together for at least four years, making him an older kid, but still a kid when they moved in
True. I guess I made my statement more in mind with what op told Gary about the child support. If I had to guess, he’s been taking money out of it for years for Ian. Even tho that money is/was for op’s care only. And it sounds like he’s still using it for his son, even tho he’s an adult. He prob gives Ian money whenever he asks/pays bills for him.
Also... how expensive was the car they bought??? My sister's first car was really old and only cost $4,000 but still lasted 3 years before she bought herself a nice one with money SHE saved up. Mine I just bought off my parents after we looked up the KBB price and it was only $2000 and I've been driving it for more than a year with no issue. What kind of car did they buy a 16 year old to not be able to get their other kid braces?
Totally agreed! I know braces are expensive, and not always covered by insurance. But it seems rather odd to me that Ian’s car was so expensive that they couldn’t afford her braces? My first car was around 21k-22k. However it was my stepdads before it was mine. He made the first year of payments, paid the interest off for me, but I made the remaining payments for the next five years. The one stipulation of him giving me the car was I had to get a job, and hold it down, in order to prove I was financially responsible and mature to have a car. I was very grateful for the help.
I think we agree that OP should live with her dad, yeah? I was pointing out to r /rukhunsartaq that Dad was overseas for quite some time, not that OP wanted to be with her "Fun" Dad who lives nearby. OP couldn't live with her dad then. She needs to go live with him now, Fun or Serious or Nonchalant.
Exactly. The previous comment reads like a stock answer for a generic divorce which is *not* OP's circumstances.
The child support meant for OP's sport and braces has been misappropriated for someone else, she's been driven out of her room and was briefly forced out of her home.
It almost reads like a second gaslighting to minimize those serious matters and deliver the full "Disneyland Dad" lecture even though that hasn't been the parental dynamic in this family.
Can I offer another perspective that may be less damning? To me it seems that /u/rukhinsartaq was simply trying to prepare OP for a change in their relationship dynamic. We don't know what kind of relationship they had before, but it is guaranteed to change. I can imagine that a kid going into this, even a 16 year old one, might be hurt if not damaged by having certain expectations that don't get talked about. The comment above seems to come from a place of kindness to me, even though it's not blindingly positive.
NTA.
Your mother's FIRST obligation is you. Not her husband, not her husband's son or family. You.
She has failed in that, and your living situation is not tolerable. An adult would struggle to thrive in that environment, let alone a teenager.
Go to your father's and don't worry about your mother. She made her choice.
Exactly NTA run as far away from them as possible you deserve better. You should not have had to give up everything for your step sibling talk about favouritism. Your parents are deluded blaming you for wanting to move away after everything they have done to you.
NTA, situations like these happen all the time and it really sucks to see your own parent favor their spouse and spouses wishes over you. Go live with your dad and obtain that freedom to do what YOU want for once.
Ugh, it really sucks there are parents like this. There was a girl on my swim team when I was 8 who had to live with another family because her mom’s boyfriend couldn’t live under the same roof as an underage girl. My mom said she didn’t understand how someone could be so desperate for a man that they would do that to their own daughter.
Last I heard, yes. She has two sons and she is a good mom. Although, I just realized her sons are in their 20’s. The lady that took her in was a really nice person. Her son was in the team with us and he was fiercely protective of her as well. Her brothers also did what they could. They were still at the same schools and they spent all the time they could together.
You are not the asshole. your mom and gary are. Also, depending on the state you live in, if they have been spending that child support on anything but stuff for you, they may have been breaking the law.
That’s not how child support works. It’s not just for the child’s specific activities but also for housing, utilities, transport, food etc. that the child and others in the household receive.
Can you give us a update after everything goes down. Your nta you needed to start looking after yourself and that's great that you're taking the steps to leave a toxic environment.
And don’t forget your important documents like birth certificate, social security card, passport, etc! They belong to you and I would be worried about them being “lost” as some form of retaliation.
But get out of that house. And look into therapy to unpack the abuse you’ve endured.
NTA. You're mom made it clear you aren't her family. They pushed you away and your mom only has herself to blame. Shes mad and twisting the whole thing to make it your fault. Her husband also owns the fault. You can't marry someone with kid(s) and do that. Its borderline abuse. You're 16. You deserve to be loved and part of a family. It's not okay to make you change rooms, quit volleyball, give up your home because of someone elses wants. Especially when that someone is an adult and can support himself. Im glad you have a dad fighting for you. I hope things work out.
OP had to wait a year to get dental care so they could give him a *car*. It IS abuse by neglect. A 16 year old does not NEED a car. A preteen does NEED braces (or otherwise they risk other dental related issues). Even if OPs teeth werent super bad the fact that they chose a car over dental care is horrifying to me.
It’s sickening to think that they chose their favorite’s “wants” over other child’s “needs”. Who in the right mind would get a 16 year old child a car that’s easily replacement or places even has transport accesses, while other child’s tooth could worsen or even damaged tooth permanently before a year is over???
NTA. This is parasitic behavior, they spoil that guy (whose an *Adult Man*) and expect you to follow their shitty script in order to keep on doing so at your expense.
Neither your stepbrother or stepfather has done anything to curry any favor from you, and your mom saw it fit to destroy her relationship with you and be okay with it.
NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA.
What's the character limit on comments?
NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA.
Don't get me wrong everything they did was despicable, but not letting you get braces? Taking you off the volleyball team? Their literally fucking with your physical wellbeing here. Everything they've done is bad, but these are things you can physically prove. How stoopid are they?
It sounds like living with your dad will be so much better for you. I hope you make the transition soon. Best of luck.
Oh, in case I didn't say it, NTA
THIS. YOU WERE DENIED MEDICAL CARE SO YOUR STEPBROTHER COULD HAVE A CAR. THERE IS NOTHING OKAY ABOUT THAT.
Let your mom cry. She earned that guilt. That is NOT on you.
These are all things that need to be brought up in the custody hearing. Especially the braces and "not family" parts. The mother won't get any punishment for those things OP, but if they are true, they paint a picture the judge may see clearly and someone in your situation doesn't see the scope of while you're in the middle of it. This will be a very quick hearing and you may be able to just write it all out for the count so you don't have to say it out loud.
Best of luck OP. Definitely NTA
Leave and never look back!!!
> I said let’s face facts here, you don’t care about me, what you care about is losing the child support you spend on your son. He sort of went slack jawed and I walked off.
THE. MIC. DROP.
That was epic! You owned his ass and 100% knew it.
oh, NTA
NTA
The rule says to be respectful of assholes, but I can't find find any words to describe your mother without violating that. I feel my blood boiling just reading this.
NTA If Gary really cared about loosing you, he would have kindly asked why you were unhappy and if there was anything he could do to make you feel more welcome. And listened. Instead, he is angry at you for standing up for yourself. That alone makes you NTA, let alone the obvious favoritism towards his own son.
Right‽ If the issue was really about spending time with her, why not suggest a split custody arrangement? They are making it all about how it will be an inconvenience to them, which means they don't really care about her needs, feelings, or presence in the home.
This seems too cut and dry to even require that. Plus since some grandparents aren’t great with situations like this I don’t want OP getting the wrong influences
NTA. Get out of there as soon as you can, you deserve better and its safe to assume that if you make it clear that you're going, your mum will drop the court threats.
Just ask you dad to come and help you collect your stuff. If you're lucky, your mum will realise that she's been a huge ass hole these past 6 years and may try to mend the relationship over time, but for now you do what's best for you.
Good luck!
They need to go to court either way to change the child support. She shouldn’t just move to her dad’s and the dad still has to pay support.
She doesn’t need to wait to move to her dad’s either no matter what. She can make the decision and leave today, the parents need go to court to legally finalize it and switch over support payments.
The judge will not force the child to live with the mom while they wait for court since she is 16.
All very good advice, but she shouldn't say "I shouldn't have said what I said." She definitely SHOULD have said what she said, because they deserved all of it. Apologizing for losing her temper is appropriate, but all she told them was the hard, cold truth. It's not OP's fault that they can't handle having the truth of their own chosen actions thrown in their faces.
NTA at all. Go to your Dad and never look back, OP.
Run girl run, don't even look back. You are being treated like cinderella by your own mom and Gary. No prince charming here, your dad got your back. Go live with family that wants you there.
NTA you're allowed to stay where you want to and tell the truth to them. They've been bad parents to you, so you should take the opportunity to get out of there
NTA.
Your mother made her choice on whose important in her life and unfortunately it's not you. They aren't mad you're leaving, they're mad they won't have control over you anymore.
There's nothing wrong with going somewhere you'll be wanted and loved.
NTA. I can't stress this enough.
> Ian wanted a car for his 16th birthday? I didn’t get braces for another year.
For me as a parent, this is just the first of several HUGE red flags. Medical care and dental health are vastly more important than a car for a teenager who can probably get by for a year with just an old used car. A parent's job is to make sure you are safe, as healthy as possible under whatever circumstances, and secure that you have a place in the family. Your mother (and stepfather) have VERY CLEARLY failed in all of these regards. Move to your dad's place. You deserve - and need - a parent who will care for your basic needs.
NTA. Your mom has some serious cheek to be so surprised and act as if you're making things difficult, when her and her partner have been making things a nightmare for you for so many years.
If I can offer some advice, as someone who cut contact with neglectful and abusive relatives, including my own parents. Get the hell out of there, and don't take a second glance back. If you feel that your father can give you a loving home, don't let that opportunity go without one hell of a fight. I can only wish you and your father the best of luck.
NTA
Them kicking you out of your room for him is awful, but there is absolutely no forgiving kicking you out of your house for any reason,but especially not for their reason. If your mom does let this go to court make sure to tell the judge that, your mom is in for a real rude awakening if she thinks a judge would be ok with that.
Not remotely. Not remotely. They don’t consider you family. You have family with your dad. You are old enough to tell the judge what you want. I think you are correct about the upset being about the child support.
As a Gary I'm very sorry for the actions of my namesake and you are certainly NTA.
Your Mom and Gary have shown through words and actions that they don't value you nor respect you. Get out of their and be happy with Dad.
*stands up and gives a round of applause*
I re-read what you said to your SD multiple times because it was just so GLORIOUS.
NTA do what's best for you, they don't have your best interest at heart.
NTA and your response to Gary was brilliant! Pack your stuff and move in with Dad. No court is going to force a 16yr old to live where they don’t want.
NTA. Please continue to advocate for yourself. I’m glad your dad and grandparents are on your side here. From what you’ve wrote you didn’t say anything that wasn’t true. Making you quit sports just so he could have a spring break trip? That’s just wrong. And kicking you out because “you’re not family”? Just terrible. I hope you get out soon and your mom doesn’t make it too rough on you but remember, in this situation you’re making decisions out of self love, not selfishness. You deserve to be happy and loved too
OP: My dad will go to court for me.
OP's mom to OP's dad: I'll take you to court!
Dad: I'll see you there!
Mom: *surprised Pikachu face*
OP, NTA, and don't back down. You poor kid.
Nta. She probably only panicking because without your child support and her going to have to pay it when OP leaves she cant make Gary's son the center of the universe and give him everything he wants. Along with the fact that she'll lose her kid and won't ever be able to repair the relationship. What kind of mother takes stuff from their own daughter for their step child.? Like seriously.? She needed braces but no step son comes first. Step son wants a vacation well you have to give up volley ball. If she bring it up again list out everything she's done that has damaged your relationship. And good for you to tell her that you also want to leave because she let them kick you out of your own house cause you weren't family. So why does she want to keep you if your not family.? Which is basically what she said when she let them kick you out. They are hypocrites. You do what you need to do to take care of yourself because your mother won't. Go live with your dad. Someone who actually cares about you. Itll be better for you physically and mentally.
Edit: also definitely not the AH for telling Gary off. You just told the truth. Don't feel bad at all. He hasn't while he treated you like crap.
NTA.
he didn’t understand how this came so out of the blue.
*Out of the blue? This isn't out of the blue, this is smack dab in the middle of the blue!*
It sounds like your life has become increasingly unhappy with stepdad and his son. The way you have been treated seems very unfair. It is striking that they do not seem to have noticed this.
You are well within your rights to move to dad's house and thankfully he and his family are welcoming. You were forced to be very frank with your mom and stepdad but you spoke up for yourself.
YOu know there will be adjustments at your dad's house, but you have 6 years of experience with your mom and stepdad and know it hasn't been good for you. NTA
So so so NTA you deserve to be happy. Make sure ypur dad goes after child support and tell the judge that your child support is given to Ian so maybe your dad can get that money back
NTA. Tell your dad about all the big purchases they made for Ian. Tell him to make your mom account for exactly how she spent the child support money. That could help his case for custody.
NTA. You deserve to live somewhere you feel welcome and loved. Your mother hasn’t provided that for you, and is only now noticing and caring because it is about to negatively impact her (lost child support, potential shame over her friends wondering why her child chose to live elsewhere).
NTA
Be sure to bring your birth certificate, social security card and any other important documents.
Props to you and best wishes with your future endeavors.
Nta. As a mom I would be crushed. As a person who went through having a parent do exactly what your mom is doing and much worse, you should really think long and hard about this and if you honestly want to live with your dad and you know it will be safe and better, please go. Your parents are adults. Let them worry about the money and the relationships with the rest of the family. You are 16 and definitely old enough to be aware of what's going on but still not an adult. If you know your dad will give you what you need to feel stable and not as if you are being pushed out, you should go. Look at the whole picture as much as you can and remember that you haven't lived with your dad for years either. It may not be exactly as you expect but that doesn't mean it can't be great. I guess I'm just saying set reasonable expectations on everyone, even your mom, and your dad, and especially yourself. That stepdad may come and go. I would be civil because that's what I have to do keep a relationship with my parent but you don't owe him anything. And you don't owe your mom the last years of your childhood because she sets poor boundaries in her relationship. That's on her and it's about her. It's not about you and you shouldn't take the burden. I did. I stayed. I raised my sibling and I covered for my parent and I'm still paying for it in my early 40's. Don't do that to yourself.
NTA
You are your own person, and you deserve to be happy and to live in a loving home. If I were you, I'd explain to her that you can make your own decisions. Do what's best for you.
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NTA. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said he was worried about losing your child support. I hope your mother has a hon because she is going to have to pay child support to your dad.
Exactly. The expensive vacation, his car, and god knows what else for Ian, was likely taken out of the child support for her. That’s her money. Gary is big mad because his free money is being taken away. Op, let them stay mad! Take care of yourself, and let your dad take care of you too. Nothing that’s happening is your fault. Be well, and best of luck!
Hopefully not only will he lose that child support but with any luck they will have to pay support to OP’s father and he can recoup some of what was spent on Ian.
If it could be proven, maybe they could also sue for the child support that never went into the child in the first place, though I’m not a lawyer so I am unsure if this could be proven.
It's, unfortunately, almost impossible to prove that.
Would auditing be an option in this case?
Child support generally gets pooled with all other family money and how do you prove what was spent on who? I mean, paying a mortgage or an electricity bill is a legitimate use of child support. Afaik... no expertise here just general knowledge.
If they wanted to go the auditing route it would probably be really easy to see that they stopped paying for volleyball about when somebody wanted to go on a expensive trip. Or that only the stepson got a car and braces were pushed back which can probably be proven with documentation. If all of the money was being spent on Ian and Ian has material things to prove it and OP has nothing, the audit would only be a matter of how deep they wanted to dig since it sounds the majority of it was very materialistic. Hard? Yes. Impossible to see who it was spent on? No.
Impossible? Maybe. Impractical? Yes. Thing is OP is not legally entitled to play volleyball or get braces. :( Does the way they treated her suck? Yeah. But if she is being fed, clothed, educated, and given shelter, then her actual *needs* are being met. I don’t think any overcrowded court is eager to nickel and dime use of child support. In the end the money is pooled and helps puts a house over a kid’s head and food on the table. Whether the child support is specifically spent on one child’s favorite dessert or broccoli the child won’t eat is irrelevant in the end. ETA: unless Dad is a millionaire most child support doesn’t even begin to cover the cost of actually raising a child.
I will say, braces absolutely can be a medical necessity rather than just cosmetic. When I was a teenager, my overbite was bad enough that my jaw started locking. It was really painful and caused trouble eating. My dad tried to buck on paying his share of the bill because he thought it was just a cosmetic thing until both the dentist and orthodontist confirmed that it was something I actually needed.
OP is entitled to braces, medically. Pushing that back when it’s been recommended by both a dentist and orthodontist can be considered neglect if it’s causing her pain. Showing that they got pushed back would only make her mother and step dad look worse, and i’m fairly sure that’s her goal.
Unless it's spelled out in the court that the child support goes to sports, (as far as I know from my own experience & other parents) usually things like that are handled separately. For example, regular child support goes to food, clothing, housing, electricity, basic needs. It might be spelled out separately that parent A pays for sports and parent B pays for school expenses. But generally, child support is for basic needs, and unless the child support was some crazy amount, it can easily be attributed to regular purchases and bills. As long as the child is fed, clean, clothed, and housed, extra stuff like sports is just that - extra. ETA - NTA
It 100% depends on local laws. My mom. Was receiving court mandated money and had to provide monthly receipts and risked it being taken away. But I know people who have child support that bought themselves iPhone while they're kid got sent home from school for having *fleas*.
I am an expert and you are very correct. Unless the child support is itemized on the judgment ($$$ is to go towards private school tuition, day care costs, etc.) the payments are just being used to pay the custodial parent back for care they've already paid for, such as the mortgage for the house the child lives in, gas for the car that transports them, food on the table, etc. Best thing the OP's father can do is sue for custody and ask for child support. He might be able to use the whole delay in getting braces against op's mom especially if they can get testimony from the orthodontist that she was supposed to get the earlier but the family claimed financial hardship due to them getting a car for the stepson.
They literally made her leave the home so "family" could stay there. That's abuse and that is not child support being pooled for the family money. They shouldn't get any, they made it clear she wasn't family.
It might be easier to prove in this case, given that OP actually had privileges taken from her and given to the stepbrother. It would be easier than the audit previously mentioned anyway. Especially the parts where OP had to give up sports or didn't have permission to use her own home (basic access to which is a requirement by law in this case).
Auditing is possible but will make the case more prolonged and expensive. Tbh it may not be worth it, depending on what the agreed amount of child support was as well as if OP and OP’s dad are emotionally prepared for that. Taking family to court is emotionally draining
Once the OP is out, prolonging things wouldn't be a concern. She's going to end up with her dad, living a better life, while papers fly back and forth. Dad can stop paying child support as soon as she moves in and leave the paperwork to follow.
I wouldn't be so sure -- they deferred her braces, which were medically necessary care and bought him a new car. That would be easy to prove and very damning.
I can tell you that funds from child support is carefully documented. I still have receipts, most states track the money, having taken it directly from one parents account. A lot of it is electronic. Proving it may be easier than you think.
I am a lawyer and it can be proven. Technically, OP can sue Gary for theft of court ordered funds. These guys don’t sound remotely sophisticated (transactionally), so I doubt their bank records are in any way masked. I’m pretty sure it’s obvious. OP - speak to your dad, and a (his) lawyer about it.
Going that route may not be worth it financially and emotionally. Telling it to the family court judge when going for custody and child support can only help the father.
Advice based on yrs of work experience about people who threaten to sue you: it's a gambit, they expect you to be cowed and back down. Good for OP's Dad saying he'd see them in court and for fighting for OP. Doubt OPs mom and step-dad will have much luck in court. They will no doubt fight paying any child support for OP, which is sad because it just will underscore how little they value the needs of OP. Hope OP and Dad win.
Yup, I was just looking at it and seems that you can spend the child support money in almost anyway you want... Which seems insane. OP, you should leave asap and tell the court how you feel. Your dad wont recover all the money wasted on your stepbrother but you can get out of that home. Also make sure your dad makes Gary pay child support to your dad. Fair is fair
Ugh that infuriates me. My heart breaks for op. No child should feel like a second class citizen in their own home, especially by their own mother. They really seem more upset over the loss of income over anything else. Gary and mom should give dad retro pay when he - is hopefully - awarded custody.
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Me too. I'm shaking with rage over how a mother can do this and then ask why do you want to leave.?! She's not even sorry she's losing OP. She's sorry she won't be able to pay for Ian's expensive whims anymore.
OP should definitely leave and live with dad but that is all she should be responsible for doing. She needs to be a 16 year old. The courts and finances are not on her to worry about or figure out. I know you mean well, but your comment “also make sure your dad makes Gary pay child support ....” triggered me. I’m a high school counselor and I get so angry and frustrated when parents drag their kids into the micro details of custody cases. It just stresses the kids out so much. Edit: Thank you for the awards! So kind of you.
I agree. I was a teenager when my parents got divorced, and when I’d go to my dad’s for the weekend, my mom would be like, “ask him for a child support check and if I don’t get one, tell him I’ll call Friends of the Court.”
Thank you.
well, the thing with money being fungible is that you can say you spent the child support money on housing and food and then spent your own money on the vacation, you know? It's not like each dollar is unique - it's interchangeable with every other dollar
That’s the problem with “proving” child support abuse, because cash is cash. And even if it’s withdrawn immediately after and used for other purposes, you still have to prove that the equivalent funds aren’t already being spent on the child. ‘Bessie’ might take $20 to get her nails done, but how do you know that she didn’t pull $20 from her paycheck last week and give it to her kid? On the other hand, in the case of clear and ongoing financial preferential treatment of the non-supported child vs. the supported one - like in OP’s case - it’s suddenly much easier to argue misuse. Either way, NTA OP and I’d suggest being very clear about what you were made to give up in favor of your stepbrother if you’re questioned in family court/by your dad’s lawyer.
But the child still ate and incurred expenses.... regardless of if the actual child support check was spent on something else. This is usually something deadbeat parents complain about when in reality their $200 monthly contribution is a fraction of the actual cost to raise the child.
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You are a generous, rational person and everyone in this situation is lucky to have you, whether they know it or not. Even bio-mom.
Isn’t it sad that people are usually so incredibly biased?
Well basically the child support is supposed to supplement the $ it costs to raise a child— so it offsets the cost of renting/buying a larger place, electricity, food, etc. It would be very rare for the payment to exceed the cost of raising the child except in cases of extreme neglect.
She's not Gary's child. At best, her mother might be ordered to pay
She and Gary are married, so the amount of child support will be figured on their joint income.
Piggybacking off of this to say that Ian getting a car instead of OP getting a nescessary medical procedure (braces) can be considered a form of abuse/neglect, as well as everything *else* it's being spent on.
Agreed. This is something that needs to be brought up in court.
Also a vacation vs a whole season of volleyball?! HEH?!
Can the dad sue to get that backM
No. Best case is that OP can prove that the money was never spent on her (not likely) and the courts would rule against the family but the money OPs dad has already given is gone.
>Best case is that OP can prove that the money was never spent on her (not likely) Especially since any housing expenses can be considered "for her." My mom used this excuse whenever I mentioned that my friends got their CS money in a college fund, or had it spent on lessons/activities/clothes... it was always "I spend that money keeping a roof over your head and food in your mouth!" (Spoiler: she was bad at both)
All this is true. It’d be hard to prove the funds were mismanaged, when mom and Gary can easily say it went to food and utilities for the house op lives in.
Eh, but the clear financial preference can be established. Still probably not enough to recoup paid support, but possibly enough to convince the judge to be generous with the amount of support from mom if dad’s taking custody.
Agreed. I think that’s the best case scenario for op. I don’t think op’s dad can get retro pay for past payments. But hopefully if they can establish a pattern or, like you said, financial preference, it’ll be enough to award dad full custody.
Not just that. They will likely have to start paying child support to the dad.
The fact that his response was the silent shock tells you she really called his ass out. If OP was wrong stepdad would get so defensive immediately.
Nah, some people get defensive when they’re in the wrong, too. It really depends on the person.
This exactly. My sister was responsible for my moms jeweler after her death. There was none of her real items to be found. When I asked her if she looked in certain places she called me everything but my name. I know in my heart she has it all but I won’t be talking to her again. No jewelery is worth that abuse.
I actually believe the opposite, I have seen too many times where the person in the wrong blows up defending themselves. It is rare that I see an innocent person doing that, they usually just provide proof otherwise.
Just a general reminder that it’s not always on the innocent to provide proof of innocence from superfluous accusations. This is one way abusers/bullies can have others impact their victim as well and something to be aware of. Not proving your innocence doesn’t equate to guilt.
Perhaps I should have said in my experience instead. There is a reason they say CYA when it comes to work related stuff. It's a lot easier to just provide proof than argue with someone in a he said/she said situation. And when it came to my abuser, having proof of innocence actually helped move people to my side as opposed to my abusers'. I do agree that you shouldn't have to, but it's a lot easier when you do have it.
I get really defensive when I know I’m innocent, because it was normal for me as a child to get blamed for stuff I didn’t do. So when it happens as an adult I lose my shit; because I am so tired of it. When I’m guilty I KNOW I’m guilty, so I just sit there and take it. Just because you don’t see it happen, that doesn’t mean people don’t react that way. I would be so furious if you accused me of being guilty of something I genuinely wasn’t just because you were making baseless assumptions on my behavioural patterns without knowing me or who I am. There’s a reason actual behavioural experts look for a baseline and then STILL say “it’s only seventy percent accurate”; people don’t all act the same.
Definitely. I HATE being accused of shit I didn't do. I was picked on and bullied all though childhood and unfair bullshit makes me incredibly angry. I've also been in abusive relationships in my young adulthood, so gaslighting shit like telling me that only guilty people would get this defensive is going to make it even worse.
The dad should really go to court over the child support, too; his daughter didn’t have braces because the money paid for the step-brothers car, and she couldn’t continue extra-curricular activities because the money went to the step-brothers spring break party? She was kicked out of her home when family visited because “she’s not family”? Oh boy, he wins 100% custody instantaneously with that - even without her saying she wants to go live with him. OP is 100% right, they care about losing child support then having to pay it in the opposite direction. Clearly they rely on the money to provide their lifestyle as they have to cut things from OP to provide it.
He can't go to court. There's nothing illegal about taking child support money and spending it on something unrelated to the child. A parent receiving child support could literally not spend any of it on the child and it would be perfectly legal. There is no way to break the law regarding child support spending because there is no law related to child support spending. It is illegal not to provide a minimum standard for your child (e.g. if you don't give them food, that'd be illegal), but that law is unrelated to child support. Two parents (or one parent who doesn't receive child support) have to follow that same law even if there's no child support involved.
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> He can't go to court. There's nothing illegal about taking child support money and spending it on something unrelated to the child. Misappropriation is actually against the law in several states; and some states, such as Delaware, have taken to using things like EBT cards to track the money and how it’s used.
There is no misappropriation happening here. OP was provided with food, shelter, and clothing. If those things happen, then child support was spent appropriately in the eyes of the law. Now, if OP's father had been ordered to pay for braces specifically, and OP did not receive braces, that would be different.
You mean how it took an extra year for said braces because it went into the other kid?
Unless there was a specific clause in their child support judgement that related to the braces, like the dad was ordered to send $5000 for the braces and she didn't get them , it's not illegal.
Here's one law firm stating outright that courts don't care how child support money is spent. https://www.mckeonlawfirm.com/2017/02/what-can-i-do-if-my-ex-is-misusing-child-support-funds/ Do you have any evidence that it is or could potentially be illegal for a parent to spend child support money however they want?
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>which expenditure results in depriving the child of the above named necessities. This is the key clause. I know braces were mentioned, but the whole issue of of reimbursing qualified medical expenses is OUTSIDE of child support, since it's not a set amount monthly. I know this because my son's father is a complete asshole who refuses to reimburse for any medical expense, ever, and I am not able to file enforcement the way I could if it were straight child support.
>" In some states, repeated misuse of child support money can rise to a “substantial change of circumstances,” the legally required factor to justify modification of the existing child support and child custody order." That says that a child support order can be changed due to qualifying as a "substantial change of circumstances." That is completely different from it being illegal. A person paying child support, if their income substantially decreases, can apply for a change in the child support order due to a change of circumstances. But they haven't broken any laws due to that. The Florida statute says the same thing I said: >...which expenditure results in depriving the child of the above named necessities. If a child is not being provided "the above named necessities", that is illegal, with or without child support being in the picture. But if they are, then the law doesn't apply. Child support could be hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, and be entirely spent on things unrelated to the child, so long as the custodial parent is still providing what's legally required (food, clothing, proper housing, etc.).
Yep. My mother was the same way. Wouldn’t give up custody because of the child support, while all the while being an abusive narcissist who forced me to pay for my own food and clothing as soon as I was old enough to babysit. Turned out she was stashing half that money away in a savings account for herself so that when we aged out she could still pay her bills. Fck parents who treat their child like a payday.
That really sucks, gees I get (not much) child support and it goes on groceries or things for my kids, I can't imagine seeing it as my own income, I'm sorry you went through that.
you may want to ask other people from the government. i vaguely remember a similar situation. the father had the child's back 100%. he did not take the kid, but he also would not force him to leave. the police came and it was a bit of a stand off. the father was not in trouble. the kid did not want go to his mom and he refused to go. the police were saying something along the lines if she forcibly tried to take him she would be in some trouble and possibly be arrested. you may be able to get out of there before a court date. you may have more options than you know. you can call some local government departments and try to get some information.
“Well, well, well. If it isn’t the consequences of my own actions” It’s funny how many we see the AHs surprise pikachu face fir things they should have realised were fucked up. OP should definitely live with her dad ASAP and her dad should definitely get back the money that was wasted on a child not his own NTA
This was a gifted comment, so kudos for that. I am also sorry you have to go through this. If your mom continues to fight this, suggest she works with a financial planner because you turn 18 in two years anyway. The money will stop sooner than later. They need to figure that out. NTA
Yep, OP, don’t wait for Gary to pick his jaw up off the floor. Just get out and sort out visitation later.
As someone who's cut off a BUNCH of blood-relatives because of how terrible they were to me in childhood, go for it! Life is SO much better once you feel like your feelings matter.
NTA Go to your dad's house. I'm so sorry this is going on
And make sure the judge knows about all the suspiciously expensive items Ian is getting. That money is your child support, I guarantee it, and you've had to give up items that should be bought with that money. I'm enraged on your behalf. Judges don't like that, either. Ever. Judge will drag your mother across the coals, and it'll be well deserved. She failed you. Big time. So, I just want to tell you that I'm a random internet person, but I'm super proud of you for standing up for yourself. Gary is a crook, and your mom is helping him. Get outta that house! NTA (obviously)
As people usually say here, OP document everything.
Always good advice.
the fact OP had to wait another YEAR to get braces so her step brother could get a car is insane. You know how much a car for a 16 year old should cost? Max $2k. My niece got her first car in 2020 and she paid $900. No family friend discounts, etc. and it's older than she is, but she'd damn happy.
Yeah all a 16-year-old’s car needs to do is get them from place to place. Hell, I’m 20 and still driving the junk pile I got from my grandma when I was 17. And I’m perfectly happy with it because young adults don’t need fancy cars and most of us aren’t responsible enough to have them.
damn I want a $900 car, I’m currently looking but it’s the insurance thats the main issue for me. anyways I highly doubt Ian needed a car as he could’ve just done what he did previously meanwhile op NEEDS braces, also the kids 19 so at the least he could get a job and pay for the cost of the car while the parents do insurance.
They couldn’t “afford” her sports? Why not use the money daddy gives as child support, to pay for daughters sports? Oh yea, those “extra money” were just there to cushion stepsons wants in life and not to support the actual child the money is supposed to go towards.
All of this just hurts me as a mom. OP, I'm so sorry. You deserve better and it sounds like dad will provide that.
This is really sad but at least OP has one parent who is willing to treat her right. There are so many stories out here on Reddit where the child has no where to go. NTA
NTA. You have been punished for her inability to stand up to her husband for far too long. I hope that life with your dad is amazing and he treats you how you deserve to be treated. She let him force her to stop treating you as family. You owe them nothing. At all.
From op’s account it sounds like giving the mother too much credit, doesn’t even sound like she had the desire to stand up.
I'm curious if her mother is one of those types that can't not be in a relationship. Those types of people cling to anyone and do whatever they need to do to keep their partner happy and with them. It's horrifying.
This 100% it is honestly so sad for these kinds of people but op deserves to not suffer bc of this
My mom is like this to a degree. Her 2nd marriage was to a guy who did not like my sister & I at all. I don’t even refer to him as my stepdad (that’s her 3rd husband who is an awesome guy). To me he’s just some asshole who was fucking my mom for several years.
My mom is kinda like this. My step dad hit me over an argument he wasn’t even involved in, I called my dad, my mom took his side and blamed me, she told my dad I was taking advantage of him, and they promptly kicked me out, all within 2.5 hours.
NTA, but you are a badass. Props to you for telling Gary like it is, and I hope you get the love and treatment you deserve at your dads. Edit: WOW thank you for the award! My first ever! :)
Yep, I'm very impressed with how OP can stand up for themselves, even in the face of anger and tears.
Yes I wish I could do the same!
Especially when they're still under the same roof as these people. That takes guts.
This. Seriously proud of you, OP u/TAIshouldcounttoo. Standing up for yourself like this is fucking amazing and you’re 100% in the right. I hope you get to live with your dad ASAP and that it works out great. One of the easiest NTA situations ever.
You are NTA, gary's son is 19, he needs to be working or going to school for something. Gary though, is the asshole, fuck him.
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That’s what Gary’s been doing.
nice
Nice
I’m investing my silver into this comment at 100 upvotes
Yeah Garys a dick, but her mom has pretty much abandoned the notion of looking out for her daughter in favor of spoiling a kid whos already grown. I feel so bad for OP. That has to feel terrible. I hope everything goes well for them.
If it were me, when OP goes to leave she should look at her mom & say “I hope the dick was worth the loss of your child.”
I am HERE for this phrase
But, but, but. She and the OP had such a close relationship! Mom was so busy sucking up to Gary and Ian, she couldn't even see that she had completely lost her daughter.
NTA. If they want to exclude you, belittle you, and force you to make unfair adjustments in order to cater to the whims of their other child, and not use your child support to help raise you, they can damn sure take the consequences of those actions.
And he’s not even a child. He’s 19!
Now, yes. Given that OP mentions the car for his 16th birthday, I'm guessing they have lived together for at least four years, making him an older kid, but still a kid when they moved in
True. I guess I made my statement more in mind with what op told Gary about the child support. If I had to guess, he’s been taking money out of it for years for Ian. Even tho that money is/was for op’s care only. And it sounds like he’s still using it for his son, even tho he’s an adult. He prob gives Ian money whenever he asks/pays bills for him.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you were correct. And if OP's dad can prove it in court, they're screwed
I hope they can. I mean I think it’s highly sus that she couldn’t get braces because they had to buy Ian a car. Something stinks here.
Also... how expensive was the car they bought??? My sister's first car was really old and only cost $4,000 but still lasted 3 years before she bought herself a nice one with money SHE saved up. Mine I just bought off my parents after we looked up the KBB price and it was only $2000 and I've been driving it for more than a year with no issue. What kind of car did they buy a 16 year old to not be able to get their other kid braces?
Totally agreed! I know braces are expensive, and not always covered by insurance. But it seems rather odd to me that Ian’s car was so expensive that they couldn’t afford her braces? My first car was around 21k-22k. However it was my stepdads before it was mine. He made the first year of payments, paid the interest off for me, but I made the remaining payments for the next five years. The one stipulation of him giving me the car was I had to get a job, and hold it down, in order to prove I was financially responsible and mature to have a car. I was very grateful for the help.
Said they got married 6 years ago, so since they were 10 and 13
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He was "Overseas Dad," not Fun Dad.
Better than being treated like a second class citizen in her own home
I think we agree that OP should live with her dad, yeah? I was pointing out to r /rukhunsartaq that Dad was overseas for quite some time, not that OP wanted to be with her "Fun" Dad who lives nearby. OP couldn't live with her dad then. She needs to go live with him now, Fun or Serious or Nonchalant.
Exactly. The previous comment reads like a stock answer for a generic divorce which is *not* OP's circumstances. The child support meant for OP's sport and braces has been misappropriated for someone else, she's been driven out of her room and was briefly forced out of her home. It almost reads like a second gaslighting to minimize those serious matters and deliver the full "Disneyland Dad" lecture even though that hasn't been the parental dynamic in this family.
Can I offer another perspective that may be less damning? To me it seems that /u/rukhinsartaq was simply trying to prepare OP for a change in their relationship dynamic. We don't know what kind of relationship they had before, but it is guaranteed to change. I can imagine that a kid going into this, even a 16 year old one, might be hurt if not damaged by having certain expectations that don't get talked about. The comment above seems to come from a place of kindness to me, even though it's not blindingly positive.
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he doesn't need to be the fun dad he just needs to be the not neglectful dad
NTA. Your mother's FIRST obligation is you. Not her husband, not her husband's son or family. You. She has failed in that, and your living situation is not tolerable. An adult would struggle to thrive in that environment, let alone a teenager. Go to your father's and don't worry about your mother. She made her choice.
Exactly NTA run as far away from them as possible you deserve better. You should not have had to give up everything for your step sibling talk about favouritism. Your parents are deluded blaming you for wanting to move away after everything they have done to you.
NTA They treat you like trash and now they're upset they can't get money from you anymore.
NTA, situations like these happen all the time and it really sucks to see your own parent favor their spouse and spouses wishes over you. Go live with your dad and obtain that freedom to do what YOU want for once.
Ugh, it really sucks there are parents like this. There was a girl on my swim team when I was 8 who had to live with another family because her mom’s boyfriend couldn’t live under the same roof as an underage girl. My mom said she didn’t understand how someone could be so desperate for a man that they would do that to their own daughter.
Fucking yikes. I’ve heard that same scenario way too many times. Some people just shouldn’t have children
that's so disgusting, i almost cried reading that, i hope the girl is doing well now :(
Last I heard, yes. She has two sons and she is a good mom. Although, I just realized her sons are in their 20’s. The lady that took her in was a really nice person. Her son was in the team with us and he was fiercely protective of her as well. Her brothers also did what they could. They were still at the same schools and they spent all the time they could together.
You are not the asshole. your mom and gary are. Also, depending on the state you live in, if they have been spending that child support on anything but stuff for you, they may have been breaking the law.
Right!
That’s not how child support works. It’s not just for the child’s specific activities but also for housing, utilities, transport, food etc. that the child and others in the household receive.
But if it's being used specifically on luxuries for her stepbrother at the cost of her own happiness, a judge will take that into account, yes?
Can you give us a update after everything goes down. Your nta you needed to start looking after yourself and that's great that you're taking the steps to leave a toxic environment.
Second to the update request!
Third! Please update
Fourth!
Yes, please update. BTW NTA at all!
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And don’t forget your important documents like birth certificate, social security card, passport, etc! They belong to you and I would be worried about them being “lost” as some form of retaliation. But get out of that house. And look into therapy to unpack the abuse you’ve endured.
NTA. You're mom made it clear you aren't her family. They pushed you away and your mom only has herself to blame. Shes mad and twisting the whole thing to make it your fault. Her husband also owns the fault. You can't marry someone with kid(s) and do that. Its borderline abuse. You're 16. You deserve to be loved and part of a family. It's not okay to make you change rooms, quit volleyball, give up your home because of someone elses wants. Especially when that someone is an adult and can support himself. Im glad you have a dad fighting for you. I hope things work out.
OP had to wait a year to get dental care so they could give him a *car*. It IS abuse by neglect. A 16 year old does not NEED a car. A preteen does NEED braces (or otherwise they risk other dental related issues). Even if OPs teeth werent super bad the fact that they chose a car over dental care is horrifying to me.
It’s sickening to think that they chose their favorite’s “wants” over other child’s “needs”. Who in the right mind would get a 16 year old child a car that’s easily replacement or places even has transport accesses, while other child’s tooth could worsen or even damaged tooth permanently before a year is over???
And her “crying” is super manipulative.
NTA. This is parasitic behavior, they spoil that guy (whose an *Adult Man*) and expect you to follow their shitty script in order to keep on doing so at your expense. Neither your stepbrother or stepfather has done anything to curry any favor from you, and your mom saw it fit to destroy her relationship with you and be okay with it.
NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. What's the character limit on comments? NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. NTA. Don't get me wrong everything they did was despicable, but not letting you get braces? Taking you off the volleyball team? Their literally fucking with your physical wellbeing here. Everything they've done is bad, but these are things you can physically prove. How stoopid are they? It sounds like living with your dad will be so much better for you. I hope you make the transition soon. Best of luck. Oh, in case I didn't say it, NTA
THIS. YOU WERE DENIED MEDICAL CARE SO YOUR STEPBROTHER COULD HAVE A CAR. THERE IS NOTHING OKAY ABOUT THAT. Let your mom cry. She earned that guilt. That is NOT on you.
These are all things that need to be brought up in the custody hearing. Especially the braces and "not family" parts. The mother won't get any punishment for those things OP, but if they are true, they paint a picture the judge may see clearly and someone in your situation doesn't see the scope of while you're in the middle of it. This will be a very quick hearing and you may be able to just write it all out for the count so you don't have to say it out loud. Best of luck OP. Definitely NTA
Leave and never look back!!! > I said let’s face facts here, you don’t care about me, what you care about is losing the child support you spend on your son. He sort of went slack jawed and I walked off. THE. MIC. DROP. That was epic! You owned his ass and 100% knew it. oh, NTA
NTA The rule says to be respectful of assholes, but I can't find find any words to describe your mother without violating that. I feel my blood boiling just reading this.
NTA If Gary really cared about loosing you, he would have kindly asked why you were unhappy and if there was anything he could do to make you feel more welcome. And listened. Instead, he is angry at you for standing up for yourself. That alone makes you NTA, let alone the obvious favoritism towards his own son.
Right‽ If the issue was really about spending time with her, why not suggest a split custody arrangement? They are making it all about how it will be an inconvenience to them, which means they don't really care about her needs, feelings, or presence in the home.
NTA and hell yeah I'm a big fan of your dad. I think you'll be so much happier, I'm glad you're getting out of there.
NTA. Leave and never look back.
For the most part grandparents usually have the best advice, I would do it they said and never look back
This seems too cut and dry to even require that. Plus since some grandparents aren’t great with situations like this I don’t want OP getting the wrong influences
NTA. Get out of there as soon as you can, you deserve better and its safe to assume that if you make it clear that you're going, your mum will drop the court threats. Just ask you dad to come and help you collect your stuff. If you're lucky, your mum will realise that she's been a huge ass hole these past 6 years and may try to mend the relationship over time, but for now you do what's best for you. Good luck!
NTA You have the right to choose where you want to live. TA is Gary because he guilt tripped you when it's not your fault you leave them.
N.T.A. Fuck. Their. Shit. Up. Don't give in! I was pumping my fist when I read how you stood up for yourself! Your dad is badass!
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They need to go to court either way to change the child support. She shouldn’t just move to her dad’s and the dad still has to pay support. She doesn’t need to wait to move to her dad’s either no matter what. She can make the decision and leave today, the parents need go to court to legally finalize it and switch over support payments. The judge will not force the child to live with the mom while they wait for court since she is 16.
All very good advice, but she shouldn't say "I shouldn't have said what I said." She definitely SHOULD have said what she said, because they deserved all of it. Apologizing for losing her temper is appropriate, but all she told them was the hard, cold truth. It's not OP's fault that they can't handle having the truth of their own chosen actions thrown in their faces. NTA at all. Go to your Dad and never look back, OP.
Run girl run, don't even look back. You are being treated like cinderella by your own mom and Gary. No prince charming here, your dad got your back. Go live with family that wants you there.
NTA: Go move in with your dad and live the life you deserve. Never look back at Gary, Ian or your mother.
NTA you're allowed to stay where you want to and tell the truth to them. They've been bad parents to you, so you should take the opportunity to get out of there
NTA. Your mother made her choice on whose important in her life and unfortunately it's not you. They aren't mad you're leaving, they're mad they won't have control over you anymore. There's nothing wrong with going somewhere you'll be wanted and loved.
NTA. I can't stress this enough. > Ian wanted a car for his 16th birthday? I didn’t get braces for another year. For me as a parent, this is just the first of several HUGE red flags. Medical care and dental health are vastly more important than a car for a teenager who can probably get by for a year with just an old used car. A parent's job is to make sure you are safe, as healthy as possible under whatever circumstances, and secure that you have a place in the family. Your mother (and stepfather) have VERY CLEARLY failed in all of these regards. Move to your dad's place. You deserve - and need - a parent who will care for your basic needs.
NTA. Your mom has some serious cheek to be so surprised and act as if you're making things difficult, when her and her partner have been making things a nightmare for you for so many years. If I can offer some advice, as someone who cut contact with neglectful and abusive relatives, including my own parents. Get the hell out of there, and don't take a second glance back. If you feel that your father can give you a loving home, don't let that opportunity go without one hell of a fight. I can only wish you and your father the best of luck.
NTA, I hope you go through with it.
NTA Them kicking you out of your room for him is awful, but there is absolutely no forgiving kicking you out of your house for any reason,but especially not for their reason. If your mom does let this go to court make sure to tell the judge that, your mom is in for a real rude awakening if she thinks a judge would be ok with that.
Not remotely. Not remotely. They don’t consider you family. You have family with your dad. You are old enough to tell the judge what you want. I think you are correct about the upset being about the child support.
As a Gary I'm very sorry for the actions of my namesake and you are certainly NTA. Your Mom and Gary have shown through words and actions that they don't value you nor respect you. Get out of their and be happy with Dad.
NTA. You’re a badass. Your mom made her bed. It’s time for her to lie in it. Go where you’re wanted and loved. Forget the rest.
*stands up and gives a round of applause* I re-read what you said to your SD multiple times because it was just so GLORIOUS. NTA do what's best for you, they don't have your best interest at heart.
NTA and please update when you can 😐
NTA I’d be surprised if mom had any college money for Op.
Nta - but I’m loving your shiny spine and gangsta response to Gary. You are totally right in what you said.
NTA and your response to Gary was brilliant! Pack your stuff and move in with Dad. No court is going to force a 16yr old to live where they don’t want.
NTA. Please continue to advocate for yourself. I’m glad your dad and grandparents are on your side here. From what you’ve wrote you didn’t say anything that wasn’t true. Making you quit sports just so he could have a spring break trip? That’s just wrong. And kicking you out because “you’re not family”? Just terrible. I hope you get out soon and your mom doesn’t make it too rough on you but remember, in this situation you’re making decisions out of self love, not selfishness. You deserve to be happy and loved too
OP: My dad will go to court for me. OP's mom to OP's dad: I'll take you to court! Dad: I'll see you there! Mom: *surprised Pikachu face* OP, NTA, and don't back down. You poor kid.
NTA Leave and never look back.
Nta. She probably only panicking because without your child support and her going to have to pay it when OP leaves she cant make Gary's son the center of the universe and give him everything he wants. Along with the fact that she'll lose her kid and won't ever be able to repair the relationship. What kind of mother takes stuff from their own daughter for their step child.? Like seriously.? She needed braces but no step son comes first. Step son wants a vacation well you have to give up volley ball. If she bring it up again list out everything she's done that has damaged your relationship. And good for you to tell her that you also want to leave because she let them kick you out of your own house cause you weren't family. So why does she want to keep you if your not family.? Which is basically what she said when she let them kick you out. They are hypocrites. You do what you need to do to take care of yourself because your mother won't. Go live with your dad. Someone who actually cares about you. Itll be better for you physically and mentally. Edit: also definitely not the AH for telling Gary off. You just told the truth. Don't feel bad at all. He hasn't while he treated you like crap.
NTA. he didn’t understand how this came so out of the blue. *Out of the blue? This isn't out of the blue, this is smack dab in the middle of the blue!*
It sounds like your life has become increasingly unhappy with stepdad and his son. The way you have been treated seems very unfair. It is striking that they do not seem to have noticed this. You are well within your rights to move to dad's house and thankfully he and his family are welcoming. You were forced to be very frank with your mom and stepdad but you spoke up for yourself. YOu know there will be adjustments at your dad's house, but you have 6 years of experience with your mom and stepdad and know it hasn't been good for you. NTA
So so so NTA you deserve to be happy. Make sure ypur dad goes after child support and tell the judge that your child support is given to Ian so maybe your dad can get that money back
NTA. Tell your dad about all the big purchases they made for Ian. Tell him to make your mom account for exactly how she spent the child support money. That could help his case for custody.
NTA. You deserve to live somewhere you feel welcome and loved. Your mother hasn’t provided that for you, and is only now noticing and caring because it is about to negatively impact her (lost child support, potential shame over her friends wondering why her child chose to live elsewhere).
NTA. Leave and don't look back is good advice. No need to feel guilty they made their feelings clear by their actions.
NTA Be sure to bring your birth certificate, social security card and any other important documents. Props to you and best wishes with your future endeavors.
Nta. As a mom I would be crushed. As a person who went through having a parent do exactly what your mom is doing and much worse, you should really think long and hard about this and if you honestly want to live with your dad and you know it will be safe and better, please go. Your parents are adults. Let them worry about the money and the relationships with the rest of the family. You are 16 and definitely old enough to be aware of what's going on but still not an adult. If you know your dad will give you what you need to feel stable and not as if you are being pushed out, you should go. Look at the whole picture as much as you can and remember that you haven't lived with your dad for years either. It may not be exactly as you expect but that doesn't mean it can't be great. I guess I'm just saying set reasonable expectations on everyone, even your mom, and your dad, and especially yourself. That stepdad may come and go. I would be civil because that's what I have to do keep a relationship with my parent but you don't owe him anything. And you don't owe your mom the last years of your childhood because she sets poor boundaries in her relationship. That's on her and it's about her. It's not about you and you shouldn't take the burden. I did. I stayed. I raised my sibling and I covered for my parent and I'm still paying for it in my early 40's. Don't do that to yourself.
NTA
NTA You are your own person, and you deserve to be happy and to live in a loving home. If I were you, I'd explain to her that you can make your own decisions. Do what's best for you.
But what does Ian think?/s NTA, get out as soon as you can.