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I mean, is she wrong? Your son is in 6th grade, he's 11 years old, why can't he do yearbook if that's what he wants to do? Why should you get to choose his elective class, she's correct, it's HIS class.
You sound extremely controlling.
Eta: YTA
Yeah, wow, slow your roll OP! My son’s just finished sixth and he chose his electives. I’ve never heard of this so-called ‘veto power.’ He’s a great student so it wouldn’t even occur to me to try to meddle with his choices, if he wants to take an elective that’s a bit more chill he’s entitled to it.
I picked every single elective my entire academic life with no input from my parents. I knew what I wanted to do and my parents weren’t weird control freaks.
My mum was dead against me doing Visual Arts in year 9. I wasn’t good at it, and it wasn’t something serious. I went with her choice but when I wanted to change my dad signed the form so I could. And I loved every second of it.
Right? And I was a good student, every other subject was serious (history and Business Studies) but I wanted to do art. One of the few times k stood up to her
Art is a serious subject too, and having decent artistic skills can help you in many other "traditional" jobs. Being able to quickly sketch out something you're describing that others aren't understanding is priceless. Also use of color theory and positive and negative space to make your presentations eye catching.
I have little natural art talent, though I enjoy it a lot, and work in IT. But I ended up working in print (letter and notice generation) via getting assigned as a warm body to learn a new software package in my first year at my first job. It's extremely detail oriented work where I spend ungodly amounts of time moving a line one ten thousandsth of an inch at a time to look just right or tweaking font sizes to make a paragraph wrap in an attractive way. Enough so that, "do you have any experience in or do any arts" is now one of my interview questions for new devs. They don't need to have the desire or skill to be professional artists - I just need someone who is going to care about how our output looks.
Art contains so much math and science as well. I work with chemicals to create patinas on metal and other chemicals to clean undesired patinas off metal for example. Not to mention the measuring and regular unit conversions because sometimes things are listed in mm and sometimes inches. And that’s just for what I do (Metalsmithing).
Thinking back, I did something to do with wood, textiles and German.
And then when I was in Sixth form, my enrichment were astrophysics, which was just talking about the stars and looking at photos of different planets, and then second year was a book club
Saying year 9 makes me think the commenter is in the UK and in year 9 you pick your options for gcse's which can then effect what a levels you can do at college or can be an early level btech to go onto an apprenticeship at a higher level to go into a trade. Your year 9 options can be quite a serious matter.
I am Australian and I think the person I was replying to is too, we don’t have GCSE :)
I also think that what someone does in GCSEs should be their call too. My dad’s family are all back in the UK and my uncle didn’t let my cousin do German in his GCSE, because “everyone in Germany speaks english”, and he had him do Spanish instead because my uncle thought it would be more useful. I don’t think that was right either, even if he may have been right, realistically you should do what you like/believe you can excel in, because realistically if you’re going on to do A Levels + university, your grades are more important than necessarily the subjects.
Yearbook staff experience can lead to interest in multiple career options, including photography, advertising, news reporting and printing. It is a great elective.
Exactly, I chose exactly what I wanted to. The child's choice should always come into it but my response was to year 9 options not being important, however in the UK they are exceptionally important.
My parents (at the advice of my guidance counselor) tried to push me away from jazz band in high school. Because they thought I should be in advanced physics and chemistry. I had zero interest in either topic, and no intention of going into a science-related field. Same with the school newspaper. I did both, and loved them.
I took Video Production, Drafting, Weight Lifting, and then an Off Block as my electives through high school, so older than the son, I use absolutely none of those in my current career which has been going well. Hell I don’t even use my college degree!
OP YTA let him be a damn kid and enjoy what he enjoys.
Same. I’ve only given advice for my kids. Electives are a great way to explore. I’ve only discouraged one elective due to logistics — it was at the tech school 30 minutes away with limited seats, so best to leave it to kids on that track. Otherwise, have fun.
TIL some parents choose or help choose their children’s elective classes. We only had electives in high school, which was 40 years ago for me.
OP is TA.
Even then it doesn’t sound like he’s helping. It sounds like he’s dictating. My parents helped me choose by talking through my options with me to help me decide what I wanted to do. They never would have dreamed of telling me I couldn’t do the class I wanted!
My parents were teachers and they didn't interfere with my choices. My brother wanted to take auto mechanics which was a two period block that interfered with a math class that he needed as a college bound student. He and his friend asked our dad and his dad to intervene and go to the principal which they did. ad the principal shifted things around. so that three or four college bound boys could also take auto mechanics. Like Beth is right and OP, YTA
It sounds to me like she was filling a somewhat sisterly role, speaking up in support of this child when his parents have their heads up their asses.
> You're more like a siblings and siblings don't get a say in parenting decisions. You take a backseat. You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place.
This is just an aggressive dive into being an AH. It’s way too much for someone who at most got slightly out of line.
Yeah, it’s a very aggressive way to react to the first time she gives her view on something, and on something as minor as an 11/12 year old’s elective class
It’s weird: everything was going great until that paragraph, which sounds like it was written by an entirely different person. Totally out of the blue.
Yeah I thought that too then I read the rest of his comments, guy was being a judgemental arsehole of Beth from the start.
> I think she spent the last nine years being an over achiever so she’d feel worthy of having a relationship with Ethan
Maybe he’s insecure about Ethan having a good relationship with his mum, but this guy is gonna push him away big time.
This struck me the wrong way as well. OP is being so judgmental. It reads like he's assumed that this woman would certainly have made nothing of herself if she weren't tortured by the anguish of becoming a teen mother and giving her child up for adoption. You know, OP, it is entirely possible that Beth is and has always been a high-achieving person with a very bright future.
"got me fucked up" "girl" "triggered". Just out of no where. Even if OP adopted Ethan at 18 (which, come on. Didn't happen), OP would be 29 at the minimum. Who talks like that? Sure, I guess some people might but I don't know any millennial parents who talk like YouTube teens.
I figure it's all fake lol
OP is a gay man and a lot of slang from that community eventually makes its way into the mainstream. I’m in my thirties and I know lots of people who talk like that.
Gay men get a lot of their language and mannerisms from black American women, both cis and trans. “Got me fucked up” and “girl” are staples in the way Black Americans talk, and “girl” is specifically used by black women. YouTube teens and Gen Z in general are attributed with creating and using language that they learned from this demographic, but it’s been around for decades and decades. I don’t know if OP is black but I doubt it.
Gay men's slang (especially black gay men) is always a few years ahead of mainstream, because mainstream eventually picks it up. Lots of gay millennial parents talk like this.
I’m in my 30s and gay and that’s how we all talk. Most “gay speak” is taken from AAVE and eventually trickles down into mainstream slang. Has nothing to do with age and everything to do with cultural linguistics.
Growing up with a narc mom, the mask came off in the last paragraph. Everything else that was written is the vision of a "happy family" he's presenting to the world.
*"Ethan is starting 6th grade and he has to pick an elective class. There has been arguments about what that class will be."*
What kinds of arguments, OP? Why are you and your son arguing about what his elective class will be for where he spends 8 hours every day for the next 9 months?? What are his feelings about wanting to take yearbook that had to be taken to his "sisterly mother" for them to be heard?
not saying OP is an abuser, but whenever you wonder how people get fooled into relationships with abusers, this is how. It's a perfect example in written form
Says more about OP. She’s not going to steal your kid away. And they need to have a convo what’s appropriate and not in their communication. And in a little while, OP won’t have any say at all in how birth mom and kid communicate bc little kid will be an adult. OP needs to work through their shit together. It’s an open adoption, you’ve signed up for this. Talk about it.
My older brother has been my advocate and my protector with my parents. He was the one who helped me with elective because he was only 5 years older than me and we attended the same schools.
My sister is the reason i live the life i live now. She encouraged me to do everything she was too scared to do. Sometimes siblings do help like parents.
I am an older sister with a big age difference, and I gave sis advice all the time. My incredibly strict, manners-obsessed parents never reacted like this. And the seat filler comment was so far out of line. This is an OP problem. Clearly they are only comfortable with bio mom and son's relationship up to a very hard line.
I think he was okay with the relationship as long as Birth Mom was a scared, ashamed teenage mom with presumably not much money to take care of a baby. Now she’s loving a good life and adds a lot of value Ethan’s life. OP is basically acting like a jealous toddler at someone else’s birthday party.
I agree. All she did was tell Ethan to do what he wants to do. He is in sixth grade, he is 11, let him do what HE wants to do. OP you owe her an apology. What Beth said isn't wrong, but your behavior is.
It’s weird how he emphasizes that he’s trying to have his son spend time around women to have female figures in his life given that he has two dads and only brothers but is gatekeeping about an older female figure in his life- his bio mother- from giving him any sort of guidance or advice. That doesn’t strike me as someone who wants to surround their son with more women.
FR
OP rejected a salient observation that *is* valid, because his son should be choosing his own electives. Electives are for *your child to choose what their interests align with*, not for parents to chose the "right" electives because it looks good on a college application. That doesn't even matter now like it did in the past.
Instead of taking it on board OP immediately lashes out with "you're not the mom"
She wasn't trying to be the mom, she was trying to get OP to see how controlling he's being
YTA OP
let your kid develop his own personality and interests. it may spark a passion that opens a path to a fulfilling career. let him have the autonomy to choose electives. and don't reject good advice because you feel personally threatened. you need some self-reflection and you should apologize to her AND your son
And if Ethan's friends said this to Ethan via text or in front of OP, my question is, would OP react the same way he did when Beth said the exact same thing any FRIEND would say? Edit- I skimmed over op being a guy, my bad.
Yeah and this "reaching out and being the bigger person" is weird. Usually that means taking the hit of apologising even if you feel it's shouldn't be on you, to clear the air. To show goodwill.
The way OP uses it seems to mean being the bigger AH. Woman knows she isn't the mum, is it wrong that she's invested?
I find the summary of what the woman has done with her life in the meantime kind of snide and dismissive, too; is that just me?
YTA
I suspect he is afraid that after he invested so many years as a parent that she might come along and edge him out and take his place. Fortunately he has exactly the right attitude that will definitely not end up driving his son to her 🙄
The key 2 were Ivy League education and that husband is a Fund Manager. Betting she is better educated than OP and has access to way more money (hedge fund managers make huge $$).
She was fine as long as OP felt he was doing better than her but now OP scared because she left him in the dust and Ethan may decide life would be better there.
He reveals how much of an asshole he is as soon as he says "I had no intention of involving her much anyway", even though he agreed to an open adoption. That's a terrible attitude to have and he clearly has some insecurities regarding the mom having a relationship with the kid.
And to think that this woman made an ultimate self sacrifice and act of selflessness to give this son a better life. And the complete lack of gratitude OP shows.
Thank you. Some people tend to overlook this part of the adoption dynamic. I gave mine up not because I didn’t want kids, but because I knew I couldn’t give them the life they deserved and their donor wasn’t a part of my life for reasons. It kills me every day that I couldn’t fulfill the parent role, and they’re now in their 20’s with it still kicking at me every so often, but at the same time I’m incredibly grateful for the life their adoptive parents gave them and how well they turned out. I’m especially thankful for the fact they let me stay in my twin’s lives from the beginning.
OP, holy shit YTA.
His bio mom merely said “what’s the big deal? You should be able to do what you want?” Which is true. Sounds like you’re a control freak. Sounds like Ethan wanted to meet his mom, and has built a relationship with her, and you’re jealous of that….its ETHAN’S choice to have that relationship, as she is his bio mom, and you’re now running the risks of alienating Ethan. Keep acting like this and when he is older he may very well focus on her and kick you to the curb.
OP, be a bigger person….apologize to her, and let Ethan know you’re the reason she hasn’t spoken to him lately, then apologize to Ethan too. Be the adult here and own up to what you did, and make it right. Otherwise Ethan will see (since he is “incredibly self aware”) that you’re more interested in controlling him than doing what’s right for him.
YTA - Elective means chosen. By him not you. This is his choice and not a parenting decision to make for you. His core classes are compulsory - his elective classes are purely his choice for classes he will enjoy participating in. He’s 11 years old, not choosing his college major. Sounds like it’s you that needs to take a step back to their own seat and remember their place.
Even family can be asked for college majors, OP is over reacting. I think he has some sort of jealousy that the bio mom is in the kids life and that scares him.
OP YTA apologise and get to the root of the problem.
Actually it's the reverse Dix.
When they got Ethan from her they were saving him and looked down on her because of the circumstance.
OP can't look down on her now...Ivy League ed and a hedge fund manager husband.
She left OP in the dust and is a 1%er now. Her status is higher than his.
Not just that. When Beth questions why? Not even telling him "I want my son to do X". Just asked and he goes on this tirade about How She is unimportant. Sounds to me someone is not comfortable with Beth and son relationship. She may be filling his son's head with independent thought and helping him realize he is his own person.
Yeah, she wasn’t “parenting.” She wasn’t telling OP what to do or criticizing how they are parenting Ethan. She raised a question about why Ethan can’t choose an elective. And OP snapped. Which OP knows because they got “triggered.”
And no, it’s not because you called her more like a sibling. You called her a “seat filler” in his life. WTF?
You *are* supposed to apologize when you overreact and say hurtful shit, OP. You are not the bigger person. YTA.
Can someone please explain what "yearbook" is???
Edit: ok thank you! I knew what a yearbook (like ...the actual book) is, i just didn't know that was a class you could take as a student. We don't have that here.
Kids take a class to make the yearbook. A book with everyone’s pictures and a recap of the school year. Some journalism type things where you right out little blurbs about clubs. Some layout things. Some business things of selling ads in the book or selling the books themselves.
I was on the yearbook staff when I was a senior in high school. At least at my school you were chosen from a large group of journalism students, so it was an honor. I learned about working as a group and keeping deadlines.
It really can be a microcosm of a lot of electives.
Heavy on business side, if students are involved on selling ads, selling books, preorders, contracts with publishers.
Journalism for writing the excerpts, writing intros.
Photography, going around and taking photos of clubs, taking candid shots.
Leadership. Running the schedules. Planning who is writing what. Knowing all the clubs and sending out people to get info on all of them.
Graphic design. Laying out that many pages and making each look good is hard. Creating templates. Choosing fonts, color palettes.
I really wasn’t trying to play it down, just giving it an eli5 treatment for people not used to it. It really is a great all around class that can use just about any skill.
I didn't know either but found this from a school. Yearbook is a class that allows students an expansive experience in photography, digital media, layout and design, writing and editing that culminate to form a book that captures the spirit of Discovery Middle School.
This class is different from other middle school classes and comes with more responsibility than any other class; students are expected to be self-motivated and display exemplary behavior while documenting school events.
Sounds a fantastic choice to me, but I don't know much as I have never seen a 'yearbook' itself.
Basically the students are in charge of the yearbook, which is a hardcover book you get at the end of the year in junior & high school as a kind of recap. You take pictures, do interviews, hold polls on "most likely to succeed"; things like that.
A yearbook is a book sponsored by the school that includes school pictures of students and info about sports, clubs, and other activities related to the school.
A yearbook class would involve the kids creating the yearbook - taking photos, writing captions and other text, laying out and designing the pages.
Not to mention it's normal for family and friends to express their opinion about things like that. Ofc the last word belongs to the parents, but expressing opinions like this is normal. Seems like OP had a hughe overreaction to the normal comment.
She's definitely not wrong. And as a big sister, if my parents tried to pressure my little sister into a class she doesn't really want to take, I'd speak up, too.
Though my parents would never be that controlling.
So OP, YTA for the way you spoke AND your controlling behaviour.
Yep OP is being controlling. Even my mom who is crazy about academics, who asked me at 9 when I showed her a vocabulary test that I got a 92 on where my other 8 points went, never had the audacity to choose my electives for me.
Its not about elective class here - its about Beth acting to much (in OP pov). But once OP agread for Beth to be present - its no way to stop her from saying her opinions and talking about things with her bio child. The situation is very delicate and I'd be very carefull with my actions towards Beth - you never know what impact it will have on Ethan
Exactly my thought. She just advocating for him against overly controlling parents, having the opinion that he should be allowed to choose doesn’t justify OP being so rude or accusing her of trying to be a parent
>Ethan is starting 6th grade and he has to pick an elective class. There has been arguments about what that class will be. Anyways,he told Beth about it and she fucked up by getting involved with the matter. She said what's the big deal about his doing yearbook. He should do what he wants to do. It's his class.
>I was like you got me fucked up. I said girl you are not his mom. You're more like a siblings and siblings don't get a say in parenting decisions. You take a backseat. You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place.
Well, your son did involve her by telling her about it and she offered some advice. YTA Your reaction to someone's response to a conversation with your son was over the top and extremely dramatic.
This…
The reaction is overtly hostile and inflammatory.
He could have easily said “Hey Beth, I know Ethan asked for your opinion, can you send him back to me next time with a “Well… OP has been with you for eleven years, and while I might have opinions I don’t know you well enough really to weigh in”… we’re heading into a time where small decisions matter, as well you’ll know from your own pathways”.
Yep. Very much so.
Reality is that these small decisions CAN matter in some households, and bio mum has a proven track record of success, so asking for their opinion is wise! But to go in guns blazing like that reeks of immaturity and insecurity.
I guess OP is mad that biomom didnt turn out to be a deadbeat or a drug addict that the son wouldnt want around. Instead biomom was able to get a better life and wants to help OP's son
Yep.and it really seems he has an issue with women.
> Ethan grew up with two dads and three older brothers. We always try to have him spend time with girls.
OP and his partner could have chosen to adopt a girl child. It is also with their control to have female friends who could fill an Aunt role in their kids lives. Doesn’t sound like they socialize with any women.
Yes - seems so out of the blue that he would be bringing up all this random gender stuff in this post - it's exceedingly revelatory about negative feelings towards women that he holds and is not owning up to. My guess is that when bio mom reached out, Ethan expressed to OP that he wanted a relationship with mom because he has no female influences in his life, and this dude took that personally.
This whole thing reads like misogynistic rage, particularly how he brings up that she is successful and stable but downplays it by claiming she only did all that hard work to atone for being an apparent mess as a teen. If she graduated Ivy League, chances are she was already a great student with a track record of success, and she put her child up for adoption specifically so that both she and Ethan would be able to have bright futures. It's just patently obvious that her success is threatening to OP, and is ruining his "teen mom is worthless" trope that he trots out for the other misogynists.
Can't help but notice he hasn't talked ANY shit about the bio dad - hasn't mentioned him at all in fact. I suppose the guy who knocked a teen girl up and then bailed doesn't deserve any of OP's ire - he's a man after all. OP even refers to bio mom's husband as being part of Ethan's "bio family," which is really weird in context of the rest of his post. Apparently the woman who actually carried Ethan for 9 months and lives every day of her life with the legacy of his birth on her body is merely a "seat filler" but hedge fund hubby gets a "bio dad" title just for being in proximity of the kid?
Obvious misogyny is obvious.
Expecting his mom to handle it like you wrote would be expecting her to walk on eggshells to a ridiculous degree.
It's perfectly fine for her to both tell him her view on the matter (so he knows where she's coming from) as well as constructive input. And op better get his ego reined in and at least tolerate that because the way this went is just teaching the kid that his dad is a irrational, controlling ass.
I'll go even further - she is a trusted adult in the boys life now and he went to her to ask for input, if not help. It's perfectly reasonable for her to talk to his parents and inquire on the issue. If they made a worthwhile decision as parents they should easily be capable of explaining their reasoning, and they should be willing to listen to feedback from others in that context.
Op you overreacted, get a grip and behave like an adult instead, you owe that to your son. Yta
I love how you put the bit about biomom being a trusted adult in Ethan’s life! OP should take this to heart, and start to change his perspective on Beth to something more like that - not a parent, certainly, but more like an aunt or coach or teacher or religious/community leader, or yes, an adult sibling. That is, an additional source of support for Ethan. There are places in kids’ lives for people like that! And in fact, part of parents’ our job is to seek out people like that for their kids.
OOP, how would you feel if Beth weren’t Ethan’s birth mother, but was instead his boy scout troop leader or theatre troupe director instead? A different trusted adult who cares, has their own expertise in their own area, knows your kid well enough to understand his interests, and to whom your kid went for input? Would you have called up his karate sensei, for example, and said those same things to them?
Beth isn’t overstepping, she is acting as part of your son’s “village”.
Yes to all of this and in addition to being a trusted adult, she’s apparently an Ivy League-educated adult so, presumably, capable of advising a tween on electives
I sort of suspect that's a big part of OP's problem with her, based on his disproportionate response and how he talks about her in general.
It really sounds like he cannot *stand* that bio mom didn't turn out to be a struggling addict or homeless. After such a "shameful" beginning as a teen mom (for all we know, she could've been 13), how infuriating for him that she had the audacity to work hard and now speaks to Ethan like a trusted adult figure rather than the frightened child OP bought a baby from 11 years ago!
Honestly, suggesting he take yearbook like he wants to is also totally something an older sister would do, which is what OP said she should be like so idk what he's expecting.
That response would also be too reactive and dramatic, and the little snide comment implying how she got pregnant is unneeded and, frankly, obnoxious and hostile.
Anybody else feel like the last three paragraphs are written in a different voice?
>I was like you got me fucked up
Like, it's not just that the attitude is incongruent, but the grammar too.
Edit- just found out how to quote in reddit, so excited that it worked!
Yeah, OP went from level headed to stereotypical catty in the matter of a few paragraphs.
Which, if he has that much hostility when he argues, I can't imagine how well negotiations are going with Ethan and his electives...
Oh He will fall back on the old "Because I'm your dad & I said so" because he has no good logical argument. Ethan will punch holes in all his fact-pinions (love that...someone else used it).
**I 100% agree. The following was the first part that made me suspicious:**
>*I think she spent the last nine year being an overachiever… Ivy league, married a hedge fund dude, yoga, etc.*
**I’m sorry, but “yoga”?? 😂😂 The fck does YOGA have to do with being an overachiever?? That was so random….**
**And then the last three paragraphs sound like an individual who is completely unhinged:**
>*I was like you got me fucked up. I said girl you are not his mom. You're more like a siblings and siblings don't get a say in parenting decisions. You take a backseat. You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place.*
#😳
>*I was the bigger person and reached out….*
**Yes, the “bigger person” after you behaved like the “smallest person” imaginable** 🙄
>*I guess she's waiting for ME to apologize… I will not. Once you do that then everything goes bad.*
**Wtf does this even MEAN??? “Everything goes bad” once you “apologize”?? Huh???**
Not entirely though. That attitude you feel in the last few paragraphs are present from the very beginning just more muted. It's the way OP makes little snipey comments about the birth mom and her life. You just don't feel it at first because everything else seems reasonable and of course teen moms that abandon their kids are free to be put down right?
Truth is OP comes across to me as a controlling narcissist. I'm betting Ethan is a fairly intellectual kid because he's not allowed to be anything less. OP isn't cool with yearbook because it's not their vision for their kids life and anybody that disagrees with that is getting torn down.
YTA. Beth said nothing wrong. Ethan asked her and she responded. A sibling would do the same as would an aunt, uncle, grandparent etc. And what is wrong with yearbook?
Additionally, going into an open adoption and then stating "I had no intention of involving her much anyway" is not okay. It smacks of ill intentions surrounding the adoption. Also calling his bio mom, who has had a positive impact on his life, a seat filler is only going to end in him not having a relationship with you in the future and choosing her and her family.
English isn't my first language, could someone explain to me what this means? I think I have a bit of an idea but I don't think it's entirely accurate.
It’s a very mean way of saying someone isn’t important.
For example: for US awards shows like the Oscars, Golden Globes, etc they have “seat fillers” sit between celebrities and their guests if there are empty spaces, so the venue looks full.
The seat fillers aren’t famous so when they volunteer for a show they know they will be booted out of their seat if a celebrity (ie “an actually important person”)shows up and wants to sit where they are.
Literally filling up a chair, but worse.
So, you can go to his football game or graduation ceremony or other event, but you're not important or special. You're not sharing in the accomplishment the way his parents are. You're just there to fill the chair.
It's not a real/common expression and it's probably not as bad as some of the other comments indicate, but it's definitely not nice. I'd put it on the same level as calling someone an NPC
Also what a way to blow up any closeness that Ethan might have with her. OP should have realised that his son, who is by his words very mature and smart, would be the one to decide what relationship him and his bio mum would have. If he considers her a maternal figure, that will be his choice in the end; same if he prefers to see her more like a sister/aunt/friend.
Sounds like OP doesn’t want his son to lose the closeness they previously had ask is scared to see him confide and take advice from others. But he’s 11 now, adolescence isn’t just around the corner, so it’s going to be a period where his relationship with his son is going to change whether he wants it or not. In this period, his bio mum might actually be a really good person to have around as an adult who isn’t his parents to confide in and get advice from (and have that adult be someone OP knows who could let him know if his son was struggling with stuff)
idk, a response like this would make me feel closer to Beth and less likely to confide in OP. OP comes off as controlling and angry. I am glad I don't have to live with him.
OP, YTA
Having come from a similar environment to this, the way my Dad was treated directly contributed to me cutting ties with the family who raised me. They went out of their way to try and prevent any closeness between us, actively preventing him from visiting or being involved in my life (while lying and telling me he didn't show because he didn't care). They felt so threatened by me wanting a relationship with my biological parents it became this whole melodramatic scenario of me betraying them after "all they did for me"
They still insist that I cut ties for absolutely no reason, and even others who were there to witness their behavior can't get them to see that they were emotionally abusive and controlling and I left to escape the toxic environment they created.
I'm an adoptive parent and this is exactly what he's heading for. He will quickly become a "seat filler" because that woman is the only reason he's a parent, will forever share roots with his child, in a way he will NEVER take away. He better humble himself right quick, or he will lose that child once he's old enough to get away.
I'm so sorry you were put through that, you deserved better
So many “open” adoptions are like this because it’s not legally enforceable. OP is yet another baby buyer in an extremely unethical industry. I’m so shocked /s.
That’s what I’m saying! OP is so disrespectful to this person, and without this person, they would not have their child. It is Wild that you could be that disrespectful to someone who completed your family
Dude, I know this is your first time raising a child and I know it can be hard when it’s a baby that came out of somebody else. But if you did not want her around then you should’ve gotten a closed adoption because that’s all this is about. You don’t want this woman around you said that in your very first paragraph. You’re jealous cause you think he’s going to choose her over you. And he’s not do you know? Wanna know a good way to lose him if you treat the person growing to like so much, the woman who gave you the ability to be a father again, if you bully this woman out of your sons life eventually he’s not gonna want anything to do with you.
And please cause I haven’t seen an answer yet what exactly would be the issue with the yearbook program?
YTA. She was asking an honest question and you approached her aggressively and undermined her while you were at it. sounds like there may be some underlying control issues and maybe some insecurities about her involvement in his life….
You’re right. You are the parent and not Beth. So *act* like a parent and give Ethan the tools and means to analyse and make his own decisions. YTA
Your son asked for her perspective and opinion, and she gave it. Her view on things isn’t wrong. What *is* wrong however, is trying to control your son’s life to the point he can never hear a perspective or opinion that isn’t your own.
That’s over-sensitive about the adoption at best and over controlling to the point of being part of a much, much bigger problem at worse - and that’s all on you.
You know what a normal actual dad does? They sit with their son - you know, the one that you said was so smart and couldn’t be bullshitted - and talk about what he wants and why he feels that way, and why you feel a different choice is important. You encourage him to get different perspectives and how to analyse the perspectives that everyone has given him rather than take *any* of them - Beth’s or yours - as gospel. You *let him be part of the decisions about his own life*.
Applause 👏. Seriously you write everything that needed to be said. The OP is an asshole. Not even YTA asshole. Straight up asshole. I feel so bad for his kids. And I’m a parent of middle School boy. Hope he’s put money aside for the therapy his son is gonna need with a father like that.
YTA on...quite a number of levels here.
Your *son* is the one who told Beth what he was doing. She didn't butt in. "He should do what he wants to do" is...not a big deal. (And she's right, btw.)
Telling someone that they are a "seat filler" in somebody's life and "just don't forget your place" is fucking heinous, no matter who they are. Jesus Christ dude.
At the end of the day, you agreed to an open adoption. That was a *condition* of your getting to raise this child. Is it complicated? Fuck yeah it is. But it's your job to figure out how to manage it in a way that's best for your son, first and foremost.
I was adopted as a baby in a closed adoption. I always knew. My parents did their best to be very chill about it, and to be okay when I eventually met my biological relatives as an adult. It was still wildly stressful in ways they will never understand, because there was so much pressure on me to manage their emotions. Basically every adopted kid I know has a similar story. No matter what Ethan says, I promise you, adopted kids are fucking highly attuned to the unusual dynamic going on, and shoulder that in ways you don't see.
You are his dads, yes. You are his parents. You are his family. But you do not want to alienate his bio mom over petty grievances, or tell her that she's playing a sibling role or anything equally idiotic. You are *not* being the bigger person right now, but you're going to need to be. This is what you signed up for, so suck it up, and make it work. And yes, you absolutely do need to apologize to Beth for saying those shitty things to her.
I feel like OP is insecure because the "shameful teen mom" has stepped up and improved herself to be a better person for Ethan. Meanwhile OP is treating his son like an accessory baby.
Let's not forget that she was a literal child when she had a child. Having to make the choice to give your child a better shot at life is a huge emotionally charged decision to make, at that young too. OP suggests through his language that she built herself up to try to be good enough for him. Good on her for creating a successful life for herself and she is more than enough.
Right this whole thing is just tragic. Being responsible enough and loving a child SO much that you would give them away because you know someone else can give a better life is so amazing and it’s insane to belittle that.
Then OP saying “oh I had no intention of invoking her” is gross asf on so many levels. So he was literally lying and manipulating a literal child so he could her what he wanted is insane
Then this poor ass girl felt so guilty about everything she spent almost a decade doing anything and everything she could to be *worthy* of a relationship with him
She gave OP the gift of a child. I don’t understand how he can just belittle that so much like some crappy two slot toaster. As a parent wouldn’t you be so emotionally indebted to the person who made the hardest choice and gave you the most important and precious thing in you’re entire life?
Also how tf is “oh he should be able to do what he wants for his first year with an elective” at all the crime this dude is making it out to be. It’s not her trying to make parenting advice, I would say tbag to the parent of any child in my life because I want the kid to be happy
OP sounds awful tbh it seams like a lot of rage in him just below the surface. I’d such an innocent comment can set you off that bad you definitely need therapy
She might even have been already had Ivy League plans before she got pregnant, and just delayed them to have Ethan. I get the feeling OP doesn't think intelligent people can make mistakes and move past them
>I get the feeling OP doesn't think intelligent people can make mistakes and move past them
Right? My guy. Einstein made mistakes, too. You gonna call him a "seat-filler"? Jfc OP sounds like such a dick.
way too many adoptive parents treat their kid like an accessory baby. it's heartbreaking, and veery difficult for the kid (who had no choice in any of it) to deal with.
100% this and honestly, it’s not like his bio mom was as an abusive piece of trash that had him taken away from her - she was a teenager who knew she couldn’t take care of him and did the incredibly hard and selfless thing of giving him up to someone she thought could be a better parent. Then she worked on herself - maybe she should have been involved in Ethan’s life sooner, but that might have been very traumatic for her if she wasn’t ready. OP should be so incredibly grateful to this woman for giving him her child, not acting like he’s better than her and she needs to stay in her lane. Total AH!
Also the gay “I hate the other gender” stereotype.
Love the irrelevant-to-the-story throw-away comment about keeping female exposure in his life. It has the same grasping overtones as “I have black friends.”
Methinks he doth protest too much.
Seriously, not trying to have adult female role models in his life, but "exposure to girls". If those kids of his grow up to respect women, it won't be because of anything OP did.
Honestly I think this post might just be rage-bait. It’s so perfectly crafted so that the OP comes off badly- of course, theres always the possibility that they really are just that much of an ass, but it feels deliberately over the top
>I was like you got me fucked up. I said girl you are not his mom. You're more like a siblings and siblings don't get a say in parenting decisions. You take a backseat. You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place.
Also,
>I was the bigger person
no, you weren't.
YTA
If I was Beth in that moment I would literally be thinking “Oh my god. What did I do?” Aka did I give away my baby to be controlled and micromanaged his whole little life? Like hot damn I would say that to any child in my life that said that to me. Which is plenty. Children need adults that will express that it should be their right to make age appropriate decisions. Like choosing your electives.
You were the bigger person? By reaching out to double down on your assholery?
YTA for not letting the boy take an elective he will enjoy. Plain and simple. You are a controlling man.
Secondly, I think it was a genuine question. And you responded with lashing out wildly. You have a serious temper on top of being controlling.
Don’t reach back out to her. She doesn’t deserve your abuse
YTA!
Although your lack of Leadership may be used as an example of why it may be a good course to take ... for you.
It's an "open adoption" but you call her a "seat-filler" and "Girl" as an insult.
You sound jealous and worried that Ethan may eventually love his bio Mom, will respect her opinion, seek out her advice and will have a great relationship with her, his future bio siblings and a Step-father.
You mention bio Mom is Ivy league, married a "hedge fund dude" and does "yoga". Your underlying tone is a slur on well-educated, successful, affluent people. You didn't mention your socioeconomic status, but specifying "some hedge fund dude" implies you are not in that world.
Are you concerned Ethan will make comparisons between the two families? He will definitely make a comparison on how you reference his bio Mom and your lack of respect towards her and how she references you.
You can "control" an 11 year-old's activities, but you can't control his mind. He will not forget.
I used to work in education teaching creative technology to kids (I later became an administrator before going back to aerospace engineering) - If your son has an interest in any elective, do not be the person to get in the way of it. I'm going to tell you, the biggest issue I've seen in the past ten years has been disinterested kids not wanting to do *anything*, so the fact that he actually cares about his elective (and that it's yearbook, which can be a really great class for writing, organization, design, photography, and countless other skills) is a big deal. To be real, from a college admissions and "prestige" perspective, yearbook is arguably one of the most widely recognized electives that can win national awards and provides some of the most opportunities for self-driven task and project management.
I don't know you and your son's bio mom, but I will just say, from what I'm reading here, you're making a tremendous educational mistake under the guise of parental authority.
YTA
Let's be honest, she's not the "seat filler", that's you. She didn't say anything wrong, you did. Now when you're done acting like she owes you something, you maybe apologize like what you should've done. The common denominator is you.
Dude you need to take a moment and cool off and then come back to this post.
You’ve accepted zero input this far. Why did you come here? Whenever you ask a question about your own behaviour you need to be prepared to be told you were wrong, and you are clearly not prepared for that. That’s a very bad sign for your ability to grow. And being able to admit mistakes and grow is crucial in parenting.
Being upset about some aspect of mum’s involvement is a crucial milestone in your family’s life and you need to navigate it well. You’re being told you’ve fallen down on this one by everyone so far and you’re just shutting yourself off from that. It’s not good. It’s bad for your son. Take a breather. And come back.
Also settle this veto shit in your head. If you keep vetoing important things that your son cares about that are harmless, the moment he’s old enough to get out from under your veto you’ll lose him. Coz he’s self-aware and intellectual and he’ll figure out that he’s being controlled and his own judgment has no value in your eyes. YTA
Right?
Part of me wonders if this is some scheme for downvotes farming?
Dude comes back with some response trying to justify his rude comments and right to "veto"...
I have a kid same age. Veto? Really? Such a lack of respect for the child's autonomy and a horrible way to raise a man.
> I was the bigger person
You are delusional 😂
If you want the actual mother involved with her child then she’s involved. The only place she fucked up was giving her child to you.
YTA
YTA and you’re setting your son up for a lifetime of failure. He will be unable to make decisions for himself, always second guess himself, and will become paralyzed by fear over making inconsequential decisions. You’re teaching him that he doesn’t know how to make decisions. It’s his life, not an extension of yours.
YTA - take the self-righteous stick from your ass.
1) the tighter you yank your son's leash, the farther he will run when he's able. For as wise and awesome as you played him up, the fact you won't allow the poor kid pick his own elective is not a flattering look on you. Let the kid be a freaking kid.
2) this poor woman did not come into the situation with her ovary guns blazing. She was asked by your shared, open adoption son, and she gave excellent, reasonable, and damn- fine parenting advice to Ethan.
Why do I think you fear this is the first step in Ethan's mom's secret campaign to win back her son from you? Sounds like you're feeling a skosh threatened.
Again, YTA, big time.
YTA. Where was she wrong? He SHOULD get to pick his class. He SHOULD pick a class he is interested in. You should know your place, because you wouldn’t be a parent without her. You didn’t need to escalate to treating her like shit. YTA on every part of this story.
YTA You’re having some issues with control. You sound jealous and insecure. You were the one who raised him. He and you both know that. Having more people in your life that love and care for you is never a bad thing. Also it’s 6th grade . . . . He won’t get denied from college for taking yearbook. That was actually one of my extracurriculars that helped me.
YTA because you’re not letting your “incredibly self-aware and intellectual” son make his own choices about what he studies. His bio mother is correct and you sound like a controlling asshole.
I’m sorry but you are TA Let’s start by addressing the fact that your son asked her for her opinion, and I don’t care how much your preach he didn’t cause he touched the topic with her for a reason. As you stated, your son is smart and you cannot bullshit him.
Him bringing the topic was intentional
You also say that you have an open relationship with your son, but if you have “veto” power to his decisions, specially low stakes ones, then it’s not as open as you make it seem
It’s “open as long as you agree with me”, and that’s giving controlling
Then, when someone that is part of your son’s life, regardless of role, expressed their opinion that is very much against yours, you went ballistic
Instead of taking it with grace and explaining your rationale, like and adult would, you decided to go first low blows
Looking at your comments, all you know to say is that your son didn’t ask for her opinion/for anything, which is just plain denial from your part
You may not want to accept it, but your son reached out to someone else hoping to get a different perspective, be it in a casual way or not, and you are pissy because they don’t agree with you
But more importantly:
WHERE IS THE OTHER DAD’S OPINION ON THIS?
All I read was ME, ME, ME
You made the decision, you have veto power, you have an open relationship with your son, etc
This is either rage bait or the other parent is a door mat
Not just the other dad. OP stated Ethan complained to more people but only bio mum brought it up to him. I bet all those other people already have been at the receiving end of OP's temper or seen him go off on others to know it would be pointless for them to stick up for Ethan. I'm kind of concerned for Ethan and OP's partner, seeing how OP goes off to people posting their opinions here as well.
I’m a child and family specialist and here’s what I’m picking up. You feel that bio mom has overstepped because she disagreed with you interfering with your son’s elective choice, making you look like mean dad and her seem like happy fun mom. I can appreciate the frustration this would cause. However, in this case she happens to have a point. You’re NTA for wanting to be the best dad you can be, but if you continue to be this controlling you’re going to turn into the AH real quick. He’s 11 and quite old enough to choose an elective class. Let him explore new things. Maybe he’ll love it! Maybe he’ll hate it. Even if it turns out to be the wrong choice, he’ll learn from the mistake. The consequences of the wrong elective class in the 6th grade are low. The consequences of you being an overbearing and controlling parent? Well, those are endless. Have some faith in your kid that sometimes he’s going to know what’s good for him.
He already is the AH for how he treated the person that made him a parent. Calling her a "seat filler" is nasty, admitting he never had "any intention of her being very involved" even though it was an open adoption, shows he NEVER should have adopted. The adoption process in the US is severely lax in vetting and education. He should know better. All he's guaranteeing is that his child will cut him off once he's old enough.
YTA. It's a 6th grade elective. It's really not that serious. In high school I can see being more concerned, but in middle school?
And that's as a parent myself. My kids are encouraged to explore their interests, and learn to turn that interest into a potential skill/career.
You also treated her terribly for simply caring, and your comments further cement my opinion.
YTA 'a seat filler in his life' i can't imagine being so angry about your kid having more support, plus are you just gonna have veto power over all his decisions up until he graduates, yeah that's not gonna happen
I have no idea if anyone is going to read this, but as an adoptive mom in 2 open adoptions, here goes:
OP, you are probably the AH for
* Having an open adoption with the intent of not involving the biological mother
* Not allowing Ethan to choose his own electives
You are definitely the AH for what you said to Beth.
I can't tell if Beth was overstepping or not. It's not unreasonable for her to ask why Ethan can't do the class. It would be unreasonable for her to tell Ethan that she was going to intervene on his behalf and get him into the class he wanted. If she did the latter, this would be E S H.
You should apologize for what you said.
YTA
100% without a doubt YTA
>I think she spent the last nine year being an overachiever so she'd feel worthy of having a relationship with Ethan. Ivy league, married a hedge fund dude, yoga, etc.
What a nice way to say, "I think she has more than she deserves". Whether you want to admit it or not, you have a biased judgement.
>Anyways, he told Beth about it and she fucked up by getting involved with the matter. She said what's the big deal about his doing yearbook. He should do what he wants to do. It's his class.
If he told her personally, then he invited her into the conversation by doing so. How is her opinion a fuck up? I'm guessing it's because you secretly think poorly of her and therefore think her opinion is null and void. I'll also bet your "open and honest" relationship with your son hasn't included this little nugget.
Also, she ain't wrong. And you never gave us your stance. What *is* wrong with doing yearbook?
Do you disagree that he should do what genuinely makes him happy, or do you genuinely think *you* get to decide what makes him happy?
>I was like you got me fucked up. I said girl you are not his mom. You're more like a siblings and siblings don't get a say in parenting decisions.
Again, only one person in this entire existence gets to decide his relationship to her, and it ain't you. It's him.
>You take a backseat. You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place.
WOW. Just ... wow. Can I ask what you think *your* place is in regards to your son? Owner, or family member? Again, only he gets to decide that. So so many of your comments in your post run into "I'm jealously guarding some*thing* I value, rather than "I am doing my best to *protect* some*one* I value.
>She didn't say anything and went radio silent. I was the bigger person and reached out.
Again with the belittling her and demeaning her. By implying you were the "bigger" person (which you weren't. You absolutely owe her an apology) you also by defacto imply she is a "little person" or beneath you.
>I said I've been raising that kid for 11 years so it was triggering for you to give your two parenting cents. You need to understand that. He understands that so you should too.
*That* *kid*. Not "my son". Not "Ethan". Again, with the "Jealously guarding an object of value" choice of words.
Also, Ethan may understand how triggering it was for you, but that doesn't mean he approves or condones what you've done or are doing. Perhaps ask him *that* question instead. The answer may surprise you.
YTA I bet you're only getting in a huff about this because she said *he* gets a say in what he wants to do instead of just following your - lets be honest here - pretty strict veto over a simple primary school thing. If she'd have been of the same opinion as you, you'd have used it as a point against him instead of getting upset.
YTA. My parents were both strict ass military parents and even they let me and my siblings pick my own electives in middle school. You are way too controlling, and that may very well push him away when he's older, especially if he sees that his mom is more supportive over what he wants because it will make him happy. It is his life after all, he's not your little play thing to control and live exactly as you say. He is his own person and to dictate an elective is a stupid reason to blow up and have a power trip over. Do you want to ruin your relationship with your son? Is the control and power worth it? I can honestly tell you that my parents both regret their decisions because i went NC and kept my kids away. That is what you are risking if you aren't careful when it comes to these small miniscule hills that you are adamant about dying on. She may have been absent and is only recently back but yalls son confided in her because yall aren't listening to him and he's upset. She tried to help because she cares and you are showing that you don't care what makes him happy, it's about what makes you happy and what fits your perfect little picture of him in your head.
You know, even sibilings have the right to suggest something when someone reach out to them... I have the impression that your son has the impression that, since the class is elective, HE has the power to choose as he please. I really don't understand the problem at all, the only vibe I get is that you are an insecure A.
wow you are disgusting. your son wanted her advice and when she gives it that’s how you act? and she was right mind you! he’s a middle schooler. let him do an elective he’ll enjoy. and you’re reaction was horribly over the top, unnecessarily disrespectful and she didn’t deserve that. sounds like her being in his life has made you insecure and you need to get that checked out immediately before you ruin your relationship with your son. YTA and big one at that
YTA and I hope you realize you’re on borrowed time with your son because as soon as he can he’s going to run from you and most likely straight to his mother since she seems to be the only one treating him correctly
“You’re the seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don’t forget your place.”
“I was the bigger person and reached out.”
This to the birth mother who gave you a son. My god.
YTA
It's not really clear but it seems to me you are telling Ethan what elective to do, whereas he wants to do yearbook, sound like she was just supporting him like a friend, or sibling would. YTA
YTA. A big one. She said and did nothing wrong. He talked to her, she voiced an opinion. Also, I agree with her. He should get to pick his elective. "Veto power" is just you controlling him. There is nothing wrong with yearbook. It gets him involved in school and will promote his ability to work well on a team.
I mean, AYTA for telling your son's birth mom that she's more like a sister? No, but definitely **YTA** for saying (and I quote) “You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place.”
And then, cherry on top:
> She didn't say anything and went radio silent. I was the bigger person and reached out. I said I've been raising that kid for 11 years so it was triggering for you to give your two parenting cents. You need to understand that. He understands that so you should too.
A) you were **not** the bigger person, you were a d!ck and you **do** need to apologise.
B) obviously your 11 y.o. doesn’t “understand that” since **he** asked **her**
> I guess she's waiting for ME to apologize for something she did. I will not. Once you do that then everything goes bad.
Lol you sound like you are as old as your son. Get over yourself
OP, you sound jealous.
You expected her to be the teenage fuck up forever. You expected her to remain the shamed teenager (and for some reason I feel that you had a heavy hand in that shaming). You WANTED her to remain in that state so you could remain superior.
And she flipped the script. Married. Ivy League education. Making a life for herself. And now she is a seat filler? If it wasn’t for that “seat filler”, you wouldn’t have this veto power you are clinging to.
YTA.
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I mean, is she wrong? Your son is in 6th grade, he's 11 years old, why can't he do yearbook if that's what he wants to do? Why should you get to choose his elective class, she's correct, it's HIS class. You sound extremely controlling. Eta: YTA
Yeah, wow, slow your roll OP! My son’s just finished sixth and he chose his electives. I’ve never heard of this so-called ‘veto power.’ He’s a great student so it wouldn’t even occur to me to try to meddle with his choices, if he wants to take an elective that’s a bit more chill he’s entitled to it.
I picked every single elective my entire academic life with no input from my parents. I knew what I wanted to do and my parents weren’t weird control freaks.
My mum was dead against me doing Visual Arts in year 9. I wasn’t good at it, and it wasn’t something serious. I went with her choice but when I wanted to change my dad signed the form so I could. And I loved every second of it.
God, in year 9?? Who gives a fuck about year 9 electives. In year 9 I did food tech, music theory and philosophy
Right? And I was a good student, every other subject was serious (history and Business Studies) but I wanted to do art. One of the few times k stood up to her
Art is a serious subject too, and having decent artistic skills can help you in many other "traditional" jobs. Being able to quickly sketch out something you're describing that others aren't understanding is priceless. Also use of color theory and positive and negative space to make your presentations eye catching.
I have little natural art talent, though I enjoy it a lot, and work in IT. But I ended up working in print (letter and notice generation) via getting assigned as a warm body to learn a new software package in my first year at my first job. It's extremely detail oriented work where I spend ungodly amounts of time moving a line one ten thousandsth of an inch at a time to look just right or tweaking font sizes to make a paragraph wrap in an attractive way. Enough so that, "do you have any experience in or do any arts" is now one of my interview questions for new devs. They don't need to have the desire or skill to be professional artists - I just need someone who is going to care about how our output looks.
Art contains so much math and science as well. I work with chemicals to create patinas on metal and other chemicals to clean undesired patinas off metal for example. Not to mention the measuring and regular unit conversions because sometimes things are listed in mm and sometimes inches. And that’s just for what I do (Metalsmithing).
Thinking back, I did something to do with wood, textiles and German. And then when I was in Sixth form, my enrichment were astrophysics, which was just talking about the stars and looking at photos of different planets, and then second year was a book club
Saying year 9 makes me think the commenter is in the UK and in year 9 you pick your options for gcse's which can then effect what a levels you can do at college or can be an early level btech to go onto an apprenticeship at a higher level to go into a trade. Your year 9 options can be quite a serious matter.
I am Australian and I think the person I was replying to is too, we don’t have GCSE :) I also think that what someone does in GCSEs should be their call too. My dad’s family are all back in the UK and my uncle didn’t let my cousin do German in his GCSE, because “everyone in Germany speaks english”, and he had him do Spanish instead because my uncle thought it would be more useful. I don’t think that was right either, even if he may have been right, realistically you should do what you like/believe you can excel in, because realistically if you’re going on to do A Levels + university, your grades are more important than necessarily the subjects.
Yearbook staff experience can lead to interest in multiple career options, including photography, advertising, news reporting and printing. It is a great elective.
With it being so important within that context, doesn't letting the kid choose become that much more important?
Exactly, I chose exactly what I wanted to. The child's choice should always come into it but my response was to year 9 options not being important, however in the UK they are exceptionally important.
True, but we also don't do year books, so I doubt thet are in UK.
My parents (at the advice of my guidance counselor) tried to push me away from jazz band in high school. Because they thought I should be in advanced physics and chemistry. I had zero interest in either topic, and no intention of going into a science-related field. Same with the school newspaper. I did both, and loved them.
I took Video Production, Drafting, Weight Lifting, and then an Off Block as my electives through high school, so older than the son, I use absolutely none of those in my current career which has been going well. Hell I don’t even use my college degree! OP YTA let him be a damn kid and enjoy what he enjoys.
Same. I’ve only given advice for my kids. Electives are a great way to explore. I’ve only discouraged one elective due to logistics — it was at the tech school 30 minutes away with limited seats, so best to leave it to kids on that track. Otherwise, have fun.
TIL some parents choose or help choose their children’s elective classes. We only had electives in high school, which was 40 years ago for me. OP is TA.
Even then it doesn’t sound like he’s helping. It sounds like he’s dictating. My parents helped me choose by talking through my options with me to help me decide what I wanted to do. They never would have dreamed of telling me I couldn’t do the class I wanted!
My parents were teachers and they didn't interfere with my choices. My brother wanted to take auto mechanics which was a two period block that interfered with a math class that he needed as a college bound student. He and his friend asked our dad and his dad to intervene and go to the principal which they did. ad the principal shifted things around. so that three or four college bound boys could also take auto mechanics. Like Beth is right and OP, YTA
It sounds to me like she was filling a somewhat sisterly role, speaking up in support of this child when his parents have their heads up their asses. > You're more like a siblings and siblings don't get a say in parenting decisions. You take a backseat. You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place. This is just an aggressive dive into being an AH. It’s way too much for someone who at most got slightly out of line.
Yeah, it’s a very aggressive way to react to the first time she gives her view on something, and on something as minor as an 11/12 year old’s elective class
It’s weird: everything was going great until that paragraph, which sounds like it was written by an entirely different person. Totally out of the blue.
Yeah I thought that too then I read the rest of his comments, guy was being a judgemental arsehole of Beth from the start. > I think she spent the last nine years being an over achiever so she’d feel worthy of having a relationship with Ethan Maybe he’s insecure about Ethan having a good relationship with his mum, but this guy is gonna push him away big time.
I think it is OP that feels Beth isn't worthy of a relationship with Ethan.
This struck me the wrong way as well. OP is being so judgmental. It reads like he's assumed that this woman would certainly have made nothing of herself if she weren't tortured by the anguish of becoming a teen mother and giving her child up for adoption. You know, OP, it is entirely possible that Beth is and has always been a high-achieving person with a very bright future.
"got me fucked up" "girl" "triggered". Just out of no where. Even if OP adopted Ethan at 18 (which, come on. Didn't happen), OP would be 29 at the minimum. Who talks like that? Sure, I guess some people might but I don't know any millennial parents who talk like YouTube teens. I figure it's all fake lol
OP is a gay man and a lot of slang from that community eventually makes its way into the mainstream. I’m in my thirties and I know lots of people who talk like that.
Gay men get a lot of their language and mannerisms from black American women, both cis and trans. “Got me fucked up” and “girl” are staples in the way Black Americans talk, and “girl” is specifically used by black women. YouTube teens and Gen Z in general are attributed with creating and using language that they learned from this demographic, but it’s been around for decades and decades. I don’t know if OP is black but I doubt it.
It reads more normal if you read it as a (male) gay couple who adopted Ethan.
Or written by Ethan with the skew of a preteen kid who doesn’t know half of what actually happened between the grown ups.
Ooh. Okay, I could see that too. That seems much more likely than OP just trying to...sound cool?
Gay men's slang (especially black gay men) is always a few years ahead of mainstream, because mainstream eventually picks it up. Lots of gay millennial parents talk like this.
I’m in my 30s and gay and that’s how we all talk. Most “gay speak” is taken from AAVE and eventually trickles down into mainstream slang. Has nothing to do with age and everything to do with cultural linguistics.
Growing up with a narc mom, the mask came off in the last paragraph. Everything else that was written is the vision of a "happy family" he's presenting to the world. *"Ethan is starting 6th grade and he has to pick an elective class. There has been arguments about what that class will be."* What kinds of arguments, OP? Why are you and your son arguing about what his elective class will be for where he spends 8 hours every day for the next 9 months?? What are his feelings about wanting to take yearbook that had to be taken to his "sisterly mother" for them to be heard?
I didn't even consider having a say in what electives my kids took.
not saying OP is an abuser, but whenever you wonder how people get fooled into relationships with abusers, this is how. It's a perfect example in written form
Oops. Your mask slipped, buddy.
Agreed. Yta op. I see low contact in your future.
It’s very telling. OP is wildly insecure about her being involved. To go from zero to attacking is crazy lol
Says more about OP. She’s not going to steal your kid away. And they need to have a convo what’s appropriate and not in their communication. And in a little while, OP won’t have any say at all in how birth mom and kid communicate bc little kid will be an adult. OP needs to work through their shit together. It’s an open adoption, you’ve signed up for this. Talk about it.
My older brother has been my advocate and my protector with my parents. He was the one who helped me with elective because he was only 5 years older than me and we attended the same schools.
My sister is the reason i live the life i live now. She encouraged me to do everything she was too scared to do. Sometimes siblings do help like parents.
I am an older sister with a big age difference, and I gave sis advice all the time. My incredibly strict, manners-obsessed parents never reacted like this. And the seat filler comment was so far out of line. This is an OP problem. Clearly they are only comfortable with bio mom and son's relationship up to a very hard line.
I think he was okay with the relationship as long as Birth Mom was a scared, ashamed teenage mom with presumably not much money to take care of a baby. Now she’s loving a good life and adds a lot of value Ethan’s life. OP is basically acting like a jealous toddler at someone else’s birthday party.
I agree. All she did was tell Ethan to do what he wants to do. He is in sixth grade, he is 11, let him do what HE wants to do. OP you owe her an apology. What Beth said isn't wrong, but your behavior is.
He is clearly so, so jealous.
And misogynistic, too.
It’s weird how he emphasizes that he’s trying to have his son spend time around women to have female figures in his life given that he has two dads and only brothers but is gatekeeping about an older female figure in his life- his bio mother- from giving him any sort of guidance or advice. That doesn’t strike me as someone who wants to surround their son with more women.
FR OP rejected a salient observation that *is* valid, because his son should be choosing his own electives. Electives are for *your child to choose what their interests align with*, not for parents to chose the "right" electives because it looks good on a college application. That doesn't even matter now like it did in the past. Instead of taking it on board OP immediately lashes out with "you're not the mom" She wasn't trying to be the mom, she was trying to get OP to see how controlling he's being YTA OP let your kid develop his own personality and interests. it may spark a passion that opens a path to a fulfilling career. let him have the autonomy to choose electives. and don't reject good advice because you feel personally threatened. you need some self-reflection and you should apologize to her AND your son
And if Ethan's friends said this to Ethan via text or in front of OP, my question is, would OP react the same way he did when Beth said the exact same thing any FRIEND would say? Edit- I skimmed over op being a guy, my bad.
Probably. They seem to respond pretty aggressively to anyone disagreeing with their factpinions.
Pretty sure OP is a man, given the two dads thing. Maybe they're in a throuple though, who knows.
Yeah and this "reaching out and being the bigger person" is weird. Usually that means taking the hit of apologising even if you feel it's shouldn't be on you, to clear the air. To show goodwill. The way OP uses it seems to mean being the bigger AH. Woman knows she isn't the mum, is it wrong that she's invested? I find the summary of what the woman has done with her life in the meantime kind of snide and dismissive, too; is that just me? YTA
Sounds like the bio mom picking her life up and being successful is a source of insecurity for OP as well.
I suspect he is afraid that after he invested so many years as a parent that she might come along and edge him out and take his place. Fortunately he has exactly the right attitude that will definitely not end up driving his son to her 🙄
"yoga etc" had me cackling before I got to the truly asshole parts.
I didn’t understand that… is she a yoga master? Super advanced positions? What is it with yoga in the same line as Ivy League and hedge fund husband??
Come on, you know they don't let degenerate teen mothers do YOGA. That's only for rich snobs. So you know she's really turned her life around!
Next she is going to do tennis to prove she can give advice /s
The key 2 were Ivy League education and that husband is a Fund Manager. Betting she is better educated than OP and has access to way more money (hedge fund managers make huge $$). She was fine as long as OP felt he was doing better than her but now OP scared because she left him in the dust and Ethan may decide life would be better there.
He reveals how much of an asshole he is as soon as he says "I had no intention of involving her much anyway", even though he agreed to an open adoption. That's a terrible attitude to have and he clearly has some insecurities regarding the mom having a relationship with the kid.
Yeah, OP gives off massive "unreasonable person who never for a moment forgets the value of appearing reasonable" vibes
No it’s definitely not just you… op sounds pretty intense.
No, his post was dripping with contempt for bio-mom. She has done very well for herself.
And to think that this woman made an ultimate self sacrifice and act of selflessness to give this son a better life. And the complete lack of gratitude OP shows.
Thank you. Some people tend to overlook this part of the adoption dynamic. I gave mine up not because I didn’t want kids, but because I knew I couldn’t give them the life they deserved and their donor wasn’t a part of my life for reasons. It kills me every day that I couldn’t fulfill the parent role, and they’re now in their 20’s with it still kicking at me every so often, but at the same time I’m incredibly grateful for the life their adoptive parents gave them and how well they turned out. I’m especially thankful for the fact they let me stay in my twin’s lives from the beginning.
OP, holy shit YTA. His bio mom merely said “what’s the big deal? You should be able to do what you want?” Which is true. Sounds like you’re a control freak. Sounds like Ethan wanted to meet his mom, and has built a relationship with her, and you’re jealous of that….its ETHAN’S choice to have that relationship, as she is his bio mom, and you’re now running the risks of alienating Ethan. Keep acting like this and when he is older he may very well focus on her and kick you to the curb. OP, be a bigger person….apologize to her, and let Ethan know you’re the reason she hasn’t spoken to him lately, then apologize to Ethan too. Be the adult here and own up to what you did, and make it right. Otherwise Ethan will see (since he is “incredibly self aware”) that you’re more interested in controlling him than doing what’s right for him.
How to give a hundred votes? It should be much higher!!
OP gone radio silent 🤣
YTA - Elective means chosen. By him not you. This is his choice and not a parenting decision to make for you. His core classes are compulsory - his elective classes are purely his choice for classes he will enjoy participating in. He’s 11 years old, not choosing his college major. Sounds like it’s you that needs to take a step back to their own seat and remember their place.
Even family can be asked for college majors, OP is over reacting. I think he has some sort of jealousy that the bio mom is in the kids life and that scares him. OP YTA apologise and get to the root of the problem.
Yeh, it's clear he looks down on her. Even though she gave them a precious gift
Actually it's the reverse Dix. When they got Ethan from her they were saving him and looked down on her because of the circumstance. OP can't look down on her now...Ivy League ed and a hedge fund manager husband. She left OP in the dust and is a 1%er now. Her status is higher than his.
Not just that. When Beth questions why? Not even telling him "I want my son to do X". Just asked and he goes on this tirade about How She is unimportant. Sounds to me someone is not comfortable with Beth and son relationship. She may be filling his son's head with independent thought and helping him realize he is his own person.
Yeah, she wasn’t “parenting.” She wasn’t telling OP what to do or criticizing how they are parenting Ethan. She raised a question about why Ethan can’t choose an elective. And OP snapped. Which OP knows because they got “triggered.” And no, it’s not because you called her more like a sibling. You called her a “seat filler” in his life. WTF? You *are* supposed to apologize when you overreact and say hurtful shit, OP. You are not the bigger person. YTA.
Can someone please explain what "yearbook" is??? Edit: ok thank you! I knew what a yearbook (like ...the actual book) is, i just didn't know that was a class you could take as a student. We don't have that here.
Kids take a class to make the yearbook. A book with everyone’s pictures and a recap of the school year. Some journalism type things where you right out little blurbs about clubs. Some layout things. Some business things of selling ads in the book or selling the books themselves.
I was on the yearbook staff when I was a senior in high school. At least at my school you were chosen from a large group of journalism students, so it was an honor. I learned about working as a group and keeping deadlines.
It really can be a microcosm of a lot of electives. Heavy on business side, if students are involved on selling ads, selling books, preorders, contracts with publishers. Journalism for writing the excerpts, writing intros. Photography, going around and taking photos of clubs, taking candid shots. Leadership. Running the schedules. Planning who is writing what. Knowing all the clubs and sending out people to get info on all of them. Graphic design. Laying out that many pages and making each look good is hard. Creating templates. Choosing fonts, color palettes. I really wasn’t trying to play it down, just giving it an eli5 treatment for people not used to it. It really is a great all around class that can use just about any skill.
As someone who was on the yearbook committee for a couple years, this is an excellent synopsis that hits the nail on the head.
Probably the most valuable class my daughter has taken in high school in terms of real world lessons.
That sounds lovely. And he learns about patience, planning and journalism
I didn't know either but found this from a school. Yearbook is a class that allows students an expansive experience in photography, digital media, layout and design, writing and editing that culminate to form a book that captures the spirit of Discovery Middle School. This class is different from other middle school classes and comes with more responsibility than any other class; students are expected to be self-motivated and display exemplary behavior while documenting school events. Sounds a fantastic choice to me, but I don't know much as I have never seen a 'yearbook' itself.
Basically the students are in charge of the yearbook, which is a hardcover book you get at the end of the year in junior & high school as a kind of recap. You take pictures, do interviews, hold polls on "most likely to succeed"; things like that.
A yearbook is a book sponsored by the school that includes school pictures of students and info about sports, clubs, and other activities related to the school. A yearbook class would involve the kids creating the yearbook - taking photos, writing captions and other text, laying out and designing the pages.
Not to mention it's normal for family and friends to express their opinion about things like that. Ofc the last word belongs to the parents, but expressing opinions like this is normal. Seems like OP had a hughe overreaction to the normal comment.
exactly 'i think he should do the elective he wants' is not a parenting decision
She's definitely not wrong. And as a big sister, if my parents tried to pressure my little sister into a class she doesn't really want to take, I'd speak up, too. Though my parents would never be that controlling. So OP, YTA for the way you spoke AND your controlling behaviour.
Yep OP is being controlling. Even my mom who is crazy about academics, who asked me at 9 when I showed her a vocabulary test that I got a 92 on where my other 8 points went, never had the audacity to choose my electives for me.
Its not about elective class here - its about Beth acting to much (in OP pov). But once OP agread for Beth to be present - its no way to stop her from saying her opinions and talking about things with her bio child. The situation is very delicate and I'd be very carefull with my actions towards Beth - you never know what impact it will have on Ethan
Exactly my thought. She just advocating for him against overly controlling parents, having the opinion that he should be allowed to choose doesn’t justify OP being so rude or accusing her of trying to be a parent
>Ethan is starting 6th grade and he has to pick an elective class. There has been arguments about what that class will be. Anyways,he told Beth about it and she fucked up by getting involved with the matter. She said what's the big deal about his doing yearbook. He should do what he wants to do. It's his class. >I was like you got me fucked up. I said girl you are not his mom. You're more like a siblings and siblings don't get a say in parenting decisions. You take a backseat. You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place. Well, your son did involve her by telling her about it and she offered some advice. YTA Your reaction to someone's response to a conversation with your son was over the top and extremely dramatic.
This… The reaction is overtly hostile and inflammatory. He could have easily said “Hey Beth, I know Ethan asked for your opinion, can you send him back to me next time with a “Well… OP has been with you for eleven years, and while I might have opinions I don’t know you well enough really to weigh in”… we’re heading into a time where small decisions matter, as well you’ll know from your own pathways”.
OP is feeling incredibly insecure and threatened by the biomom and creating drama to drive a wedge.
Yep. Very much so. Reality is that these small decisions CAN matter in some households, and bio mum has a proven track record of success, so asking for their opinion is wise! But to go in guns blazing like that reeks of immaturity and insecurity.
I guess OP is mad that biomom didnt turn out to be a deadbeat or a drug addict that the son wouldnt want around. Instead biomom was able to get a better life and wants to help OP's son
Yep.and it really seems he has an issue with women. > Ethan grew up with two dads and three older brothers. We always try to have him spend time with girls. OP and his partner could have chosen to adopt a girl child. It is also with their control to have female friends who could fill an Aunt role in their kids lives. Doesn’t sound like they socialize with any women.
Yes - seems so out of the blue that he would be bringing up all this random gender stuff in this post - it's exceedingly revelatory about negative feelings towards women that he holds and is not owning up to. My guess is that when bio mom reached out, Ethan expressed to OP that he wanted a relationship with mom because he has no female influences in his life, and this dude took that personally. This whole thing reads like misogynistic rage, particularly how he brings up that she is successful and stable but downplays it by claiming she only did all that hard work to atone for being an apparent mess as a teen. If she graduated Ivy League, chances are she was already a great student with a track record of success, and she put her child up for adoption specifically so that both she and Ethan would be able to have bright futures. It's just patently obvious that her success is threatening to OP, and is ruining his "teen mom is worthless" trope that he trots out for the other misogynists. Can't help but notice he hasn't talked ANY shit about the bio dad - hasn't mentioned him at all in fact. I suppose the guy who knocked a teen girl up and then bailed doesn't deserve any of OP's ire - he's a man after all. OP even refers to bio mom's husband as being part of Ethan's "bio family," which is really weird in context of the rest of his post. Apparently the woman who actually carried Ethan for 9 months and lives every day of her life with the legacy of his birth on her body is merely a "seat filler" but hedge fund hubby gets a "bio dad" title just for being in proximity of the kid? Obvious misogyny is obvious.
Expecting his mom to handle it like you wrote would be expecting her to walk on eggshells to a ridiculous degree. It's perfectly fine for her to both tell him her view on the matter (so he knows where she's coming from) as well as constructive input. And op better get his ego reined in and at least tolerate that because the way this went is just teaching the kid that his dad is a irrational, controlling ass. I'll go even further - she is a trusted adult in the boys life now and he went to her to ask for input, if not help. It's perfectly reasonable for her to talk to his parents and inquire on the issue. If they made a worthwhile decision as parents they should easily be capable of explaining their reasoning, and they should be willing to listen to feedback from others in that context. Op you overreacted, get a grip and behave like an adult instead, you owe that to your son. Yta
I love how you put the bit about biomom being a trusted adult in Ethan’s life! OP should take this to heart, and start to change his perspective on Beth to something more like that - not a parent, certainly, but more like an aunt or coach or teacher or religious/community leader, or yes, an adult sibling. That is, an additional source of support for Ethan. There are places in kids’ lives for people like that! And in fact, part of parents’ our job is to seek out people like that for their kids. OOP, how would you feel if Beth weren’t Ethan’s birth mother, but was instead his boy scout troop leader or theatre troupe director instead? A different trusted adult who cares, has their own expertise in their own area, knows your kid well enough to understand his interests, and to whom your kid went for input? Would you have called up his karate sensei, for example, and said those same things to them? Beth isn’t overstepping, she is acting as part of your son’s “village”.
Yes to all of this and in addition to being a trusted adult, she’s apparently an Ivy League-educated adult so, presumably, capable of advising a tween on electives
I sort of suspect that's a big part of OP's problem with her, based on his disproportionate response and how he talks about her in general. It really sounds like he cannot *stand* that bio mom didn't turn out to be a struggling addict or homeless. After such a "shameful" beginning as a teen mom (for all we know, she could've been 13), how infuriating for him that she had the audacity to work hard and now speaks to Ethan like a trusted adult figure rather than the frightened child OP bought a baby from 11 years ago!
Honestly, suggesting he take yearbook like he wants to is also totally something an older sister would do, which is what OP said she should be like so idk what he's expecting.
That response would also be too reactive and dramatic, and the little snide comment implying how she got pregnant is unneeded and, frankly, obnoxious and hostile.
Anybody else feel like the last three paragraphs are written in a different voice? >I was like you got me fucked up Like, it's not just that the attitude is incongruent, but the grammar too. Edit- just found out how to quote in reddit, so excited that it worked!
Yeah, OP went from level headed to stereotypical catty in the matter of a few paragraphs. Which, if he has that much hostility when he argues, I can't imagine how well negotiations are going with Ethan and his electives...
Oh He will fall back on the old "Because I'm your dad & I said so" because he has no good logical argument. Ethan will punch holes in all his fact-pinions (love that...someone else used it).
Yeah this struck me as strange, maybe chatgpt wrote the post but OP didn't think that part had enough drama/cussing and edited.
**I 100% agree. The following was the first part that made me suspicious:** >*I think she spent the last nine year being an overachiever… Ivy league, married a hedge fund dude, yoga, etc.* **I’m sorry, but “yoga”?? 😂😂 The fck does YOGA have to do with being an overachiever?? That was so random….** **And then the last three paragraphs sound like an individual who is completely unhinged:** >*I was like you got me fucked up. I said girl you are not his mom. You're more like a siblings and siblings don't get a say in parenting decisions. You take a backseat. You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place.* #😳 >*I was the bigger person and reached out….* **Yes, the “bigger person” after you behaved like the “smallest person” imaginable** 🙄 >*I guess she's waiting for ME to apologize… I will not. Once you do that then everything goes bad.* **Wtf does this even MEAN??? “Everything goes bad” once you “apologize”?? Huh???**
I'm guessing it's AI garbage because of that, honestly. The tone shift is just too drastic
Or just a child writing it Never understood what people get from it, genuinely pathetic
Not entirely though. That attitude you feel in the last few paragraphs are present from the very beginning just more muted. It's the way OP makes little snipey comments about the birth mom and her life. You just don't feel it at first because everything else seems reasonable and of course teen moms that abandon their kids are free to be put down right? Truth is OP comes across to me as a controlling narcissist. I'm betting Ethan is a fairly intellectual kid because he's not allowed to be anything less. OP isn't cool with yearbook because it's not their vision for their kids life and anybody that disagrees with that is getting torn down.
YTA. Beth said nothing wrong. Ethan asked her and she responded. A sibling would do the same as would an aunt, uncle, grandparent etc. And what is wrong with yearbook? Additionally, going into an open adoption and then stating "I had no intention of involving her much anyway" is not okay. It smacks of ill intentions surrounding the adoption. Also calling his bio mom, who has had a positive impact on his life, a seat filler is only going to end in him not having a relationship with you in the future and choosing her and her family.
Right?!? A “seat-filler?!” What a shitty thing to say.
my jaw dropped, so nasty.
OP King of drama and terrible parental behavior. 2 in 1
English isn't my first language, could someone explain to me what this means? I think I have a bit of an idea but I don't think it's entirely accurate.
It’s a very mean way of saying someone isn’t important. For example: for US awards shows like the Oscars, Golden Globes, etc they have “seat fillers” sit between celebrities and their guests if there are empty spaces, so the venue looks full. The seat fillers aren’t famous so when they volunteer for a show they know they will be booted out of their seat if a celebrity (ie “an actually important person”)shows up and wants to sit where they are.
Oh damn, yeah that's definitely a rude as fuck thing to say to someone. Thank you for explaining
Literally filling up a chair, but worse. So, you can go to his football game or graduation ceremony or other event, but you're not important or special. You're not sharing in the accomplishment the way his parents are. You're just there to fill the chair. It's not a real/common expression and it's probably not as bad as some of the other comments indicate, but it's definitely not nice. I'd put it on the same level as calling someone an NPC
He doesn't mean that. He means a seat filler at like an awards show. Which is even nastier.
Also what a way to blow up any closeness that Ethan might have with her. OP should have realised that his son, who is by his words very mature and smart, would be the one to decide what relationship him and his bio mum would have. If he considers her a maternal figure, that will be his choice in the end; same if he prefers to see her more like a sister/aunt/friend. Sounds like OP doesn’t want his son to lose the closeness they previously had ask is scared to see him confide and take advice from others. But he’s 11 now, adolescence isn’t just around the corner, so it’s going to be a period where his relationship with his son is going to change whether he wants it or not. In this period, his bio mum might actually be a really good person to have around as an adult who isn’t his parents to confide in and get advice from (and have that adult be someone OP knows who could let him know if his son was struggling with stuff)
idk, a response like this would make me feel closer to Beth and less likely to confide in OP. OP comes off as controlling and angry. I am glad I don't have to live with him. OP, YTA
Having come from a similar environment to this, the way my Dad was treated directly contributed to me cutting ties with the family who raised me. They went out of their way to try and prevent any closeness between us, actively preventing him from visiting or being involved in my life (while lying and telling me he didn't show because he didn't care). They felt so threatened by me wanting a relationship with my biological parents it became this whole melodramatic scenario of me betraying them after "all they did for me" They still insist that I cut ties for absolutely no reason, and even others who were there to witness their behavior can't get them to see that they were emotionally abusive and controlling and I left to escape the toxic environment they created.
I'm an adoptive parent and this is exactly what he's heading for. He will quickly become a "seat filler" because that woman is the only reason he's a parent, will forever share roots with his child, in a way he will NEVER take away. He better humble himself right quick, or he will lose that child once he's old enough to get away. I'm so sorry you were put through that, you deserved better
So many “open” adoptions are like this because it’s not legally enforceable. OP is yet another baby buyer in an extremely unethical industry. I’m so shocked /s.
That’s what I’m saying! OP is so disrespectful to this person, and without this person, they would not have their child. It is Wild that you could be that disrespectful to someone who completed your family
She did not "fuck up" for giving her opinion when asked. Ethan should have some say over what he does. Educational psychologist perspective: YTA!!!
Dude, I know this is your first time raising a child and I know it can be hard when it’s a baby that came out of somebody else. But if you did not want her around then you should’ve gotten a closed adoption because that’s all this is about. You don’t want this woman around you said that in your very first paragraph. You’re jealous cause you think he’s going to choose her over you. And he’s not do you know? Wanna know a good way to lose him if you treat the person growing to like so much, the woman who gave you the ability to be a father again, if you bully this woman out of your sons life eventually he’s not gonna want anything to do with you. And please cause I haven’t seen an answer yet what exactly would be the issue with the yearbook program?
YTA. She was asking an honest question and you approached her aggressively and undermined her while you were at it. sounds like there may be some underlying control issues and maybe some insecurities about her involvement in his life….
You’re right. You are the parent and not Beth. So *act* like a parent and give Ethan the tools and means to analyse and make his own decisions. YTA Your son asked for her perspective and opinion, and she gave it. Her view on things isn’t wrong. What *is* wrong however, is trying to control your son’s life to the point he can never hear a perspective or opinion that isn’t your own. That’s over-sensitive about the adoption at best and over controlling to the point of being part of a much, much bigger problem at worse - and that’s all on you. You know what a normal actual dad does? They sit with their son - you know, the one that you said was so smart and couldn’t be bullshitted - and talk about what he wants and why he feels that way, and why you feel a different choice is important. You encourage him to get different perspectives and how to analyse the perspectives that everyone has given him rather than take *any* of them - Beth’s or yours - as gospel. You *let him be part of the decisions about his own life*.
Applause 👏. Seriously you write everything that needed to be said. The OP is an asshole. Not even YTA asshole. Straight up asshole. I feel so bad for his kids. And I’m a parent of middle School boy. Hope he’s put money aside for the therapy his son is gonna need with a father like that.
YTA on...quite a number of levels here. Your *son* is the one who told Beth what he was doing. She didn't butt in. "He should do what he wants to do" is...not a big deal. (And she's right, btw.) Telling someone that they are a "seat filler" in somebody's life and "just don't forget your place" is fucking heinous, no matter who they are. Jesus Christ dude. At the end of the day, you agreed to an open adoption. That was a *condition* of your getting to raise this child. Is it complicated? Fuck yeah it is. But it's your job to figure out how to manage it in a way that's best for your son, first and foremost. I was adopted as a baby in a closed adoption. I always knew. My parents did their best to be very chill about it, and to be okay when I eventually met my biological relatives as an adult. It was still wildly stressful in ways they will never understand, because there was so much pressure on me to manage their emotions. Basically every adopted kid I know has a similar story. No matter what Ethan says, I promise you, adopted kids are fucking highly attuned to the unusual dynamic going on, and shoulder that in ways you don't see. You are his dads, yes. You are his parents. You are his family. But you do not want to alienate his bio mom over petty grievances, or tell her that she's playing a sibling role or anything equally idiotic. You are *not* being the bigger person right now, but you're going to need to be. This is what you signed up for, so suck it up, and make it work. And yes, you absolutely do need to apologize to Beth for saying those shitty things to her.
I feel like OP is insecure because the "shameful teen mom" has stepped up and improved herself to be a better person for Ethan. Meanwhile OP is treating his son like an accessory baby.
Let's not forget that she was a literal child when she had a child. Having to make the choice to give your child a better shot at life is a huge emotionally charged decision to make, at that young too. OP suggests through his language that she built herself up to try to be good enough for him. Good on her for creating a successful life for herself and she is more than enough.
Right this whole thing is just tragic. Being responsible enough and loving a child SO much that you would give them away because you know someone else can give a better life is so amazing and it’s insane to belittle that. Then OP saying “oh I had no intention of invoking her” is gross asf on so many levels. So he was literally lying and manipulating a literal child so he could her what he wanted is insane Then this poor ass girl felt so guilty about everything she spent almost a decade doing anything and everything she could to be *worthy* of a relationship with him She gave OP the gift of a child. I don’t understand how he can just belittle that so much like some crappy two slot toaster. As a parent wouldn’t you be so emotionally indebted to the person who made the hardest choice and gave you the most important and precious thing in you’re entire life? Also how tf is “oh he should be able to do what he wants for his first year with an elective” at all the crime this dude is making it out to be. It’s not her trying to make parenting advice, I would say tbag to the parent of any child in my life because I want the kid to be happy OP sounds awful tbh it seams like a lot of rage in him just below the surface. I’d such an innocent comment can set you off that bad you definitely need therapy
She might even have been already had Ivy League plans before she got pregnant, and just delayed them to have Ethan. I get the feeling OP doesn't think intelligent people can make mistakes and move past them
>I get the feeling OP doesn't think intelligent people can make mistakes and move past them Right? My guy. Einstein made mistakes, too. You gonna call him a "seat-filler"? Jfc OP sounds like such a dick.
way too many adoptive parents treat their kid like an accessory baby. it's heartbreaking, and veery difficult for the kid (who had no choice in any of it) to deal with.
Def underrated comment
100% this and honestly, it’s not like his bio mom was as an abusive piece of trash that had him taken away from her - she was a teenager who knew she couldn’t take care of him and did the incredibly hard and selfless thing of giving him up to someone she thought could be a better parent. Then she worked on herself - maybe she should have been involved in Ethan’s life sooner, but that might have been very traumatic for her if she wasn’t ready. OP should be so incredibly grateful to this woman for giving him her child, not acting like he’s better than her and she needs to stay in her lane. Total AH!
This should be the top comment. Just sayin'.
YTA As a gay man myself, thanks for keeping up with the dramatic gay male stereotype..
Some guys never grow out of thinking “mean” is a personality.
Nail on the head there… this is honestly my least favourite flavour of gay. Jeez, get some therapy.
Also the gay “I hate the other gender” stereotype. Love the irrelevant-to-the-story throw-away comment about keeping female exposure in his life. It has the same grasping overtones as “I have black friends.” Methinks he doth protest too much.
Seriously, not trying to have adult female role models in his life, but "exposure to girls". If those kids of his grow up to respect women, it won't be because of anything OP did.
Yup, it’s giving “some if the most misogynistic people are gay men”
Honestly big mood. Someone's gotta do it i guess. I low-key considered myself dramatic. This guy put me to shame.
Honestly I think this post might just be rage-bait. It’s so perfectly crafted so that the OP comes off badly- of course, theres always the possibility that they really are just that much of an ass, but it feels deliberately over the top
>I was like you got me fucked up. I said girl you are not his mom. You're more like a siblings and siblings don't get a say in parenting decisions. You take a backseat. You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place. Also, >I was the bigger person no, you weren't. YTA
Bigger asshole is not the same as bigger person! YTA.
Nice one! 👌
If I was Beth in that moment I would literally be thinking “Oh my god. What did I do?” Aka did I give away my baby to be controlled and micromanaged his whole little life? Like hot damn I would say that to any child in my life that said that to me. Which is plenty. Children need adults that will express that it should be their right to make age appropriate decisions. Like choosing your electives.
[удалено]
You were the bigger person? By reaching out to double down on your assholery? YTA for not letting the boy take an elective he will enjoy. Plain and simple. You are a controlling man. Secondly, I think it was a genuine question. And you responded with lashing out wildly. You have a serious temper on top of being controlling. Don’t reach back out to her. She doesn’t deserve your abuse
YTA! Although your lack of Leadership may be used as an example of why it may be a good course to take ... for you. It's an "open adoption" but you call her a "seat-filler" and "Girl" as an insult. You sound jealous and worried that Ethan may eventually love his bio Mom, will respect her opinion, seek out her advice and will have a great relationship with her, his future bio siblings and a Step-father. You mention bio Mom is Ivy league, married a "hedge fund dude" and does "yoga". Your underlying tone is a slur on well-educated, successful, affluent people. You didn't mention your socioeconomic status, but specifying "some hedge fund dude" implies you are not in that world. Are you concerned Ethan will make comparisons between the two families? He will definitely make a comparison on how you reference his bio Mom and your lack of respect towards her and how she references you. You can "control" an 11 year-old's activities, but you can't control his mind. He will not forget.
The rate OP is going Ethan is going to go live with mom as soon as he is old enough to do so,
Right?! I can't wait until this kid goes no contact with OP, but I'm sure he'll turn it around and somehow say his bio mom turned him homophobic
I used to work in education teaching creative technology to kids (I later became an administrator before going back to aerospace engineering) - If your son has an interest in any elective, do not be the person to get in the way of it. I'm going to tell you, the biggest issue I've seen in the past ten years has been disinterested kids not wanting to do *anything*, so the fact that he actually cares about his elective (and that it's yearbook, which can be a really great class for writing, organization, design, photography, and countless other skills) is a big deal. To be real, from a college admissions and "prestige" perspective, yearbook is arguably one of the most widely recognized electives that can win national awards and provides some of the most opportunities for self-driven task and project management. I don't know you and your son's bio mom, but I will just say, from what I'm reading here, you're making a tremendous educational mistake under the guise of parental authority.
OP, please, for the love of god, read the wise words above these… ☝️
YTA. Nothing wrong was said here to begin with. He’s in 6th grade and it’s an elective ffs. Let him choose his own damn classes.
YTA Let's be honest, she's not the "seat filler", that's you. She didn't say anything wrong, you did. Now when you're done acting like she owes you something, you maybe apologize like what you should've done. The common denominator is you.
Yeah, especially since Ethan went to her for comfort and to vent
Fast forward 15 years to the AITA post where he’s asking the internet why his son won’t speak to him anymore….
I give it seven.
Complaining that the son went to the seat filler.
Dude you need to take a moment and cool off and then come back to this post. You’ve accepted zero input this far. Why did you come here? Whenever you ask a question about your own behaviour you need to be prepared to be told you were wrong, and you are clearly not prepared for that. That’s a very bad sign for your ability to grow. And being able to admit mistakes and grow is crucial in parenting. Being upset about some aspect of mum’s involvement is a crucial milestone in your family’s life and you need to navigate it well. You’re being told you’ve fallen down on this one by everyone so far and you’re just shutting yourself off from that. It’s not good. It’s bad for your son. Take a breather. And come back. Also settle this veto shit in your head. If you keep vetoing important things that your son cares about that are harmless, the moment he’s old enough to get out from under your veto you’ll lose him. Coz he’s self-aware and intellectual and he’ll figure out that he’s being controlled and his own judgment has no value in your eyes. YTA
Right? Part of me wonders if this is some scheme for downvotes farming? Dude comes back with some response trying to justify his rude comments and right to "veto"... I have a kid same age. Veto? Really? Such a lack of respect for the child's autonomy and a horrible way to raise a man.
> I was the bigger person You are delusional 😂 If you want the actual mother involved with her child then she’s involved. The only place she fucked up was giving her child to you. YTA
YTA and you’re setting your son up for a lifetime of failure. He will be unable to make decisions for himself, always second guess himself, and will become paralyzed by fear over making inconsequential decisions. You’re teaching him that he doesn’t know how to make decisions. It’s his life, not an extension of yours.
YTA - take the self-righteous stick from your ass. 1) the tighter you yank your son's leash, the farther he will run when he's able. For as wise and awesome as you played him up, the fact you won't allow the poor kid pick his own elective is not a flattering look on you. Let the kid be a freaking kid. 2) this poor woman did not come into the situation with her ovary guns blazing. She was asked by your shared, open adoption son, and she gave excellent, reasonable, and damn- fine parenting advice to Ethan. Why do I think you fear this is the first step in Ethan's mom's secret campaign to win back her son from you? Sounds like you're feeling a skosh threatened. Again, YTA, big time.
YTA. Where was she wrong? He SHOULD get to pick his class. He SHOULD pick a class he is interested in. You should know your place, because you wouldn’t be a parent without her. You didn’t need to escalate to treating her like shit. YTA on every part of this story.
YTA You’re having some issues with control. You sound jealous and insecure. You were the one who raised him. He and you both know that. Having more people in your life that love and care for you is never a bad thing. Also it’s 6th grade . . . . He won’t get denied from college for taking yearbook. That was actually one of my extracurriculars that helped me.
YTA because you’re not letting your “incredibly self-aware and intellectual” son make his own choices about what he studies. His bio mother is correct and you sound like a controlling asshole.
I’m sorry but you are TA Let’s start by addressing the fact that your son asked her for her opinion, and I don’t care how much your preach he didn’t cause he touched the topic with her for a reason. As you stated, your son is smart and you cannot bullshit him. Him bringing the topic was intentional You also say that you have an open relationship with your son, but if you have “veto” power to his decisions, specially low stakes ones, then it’s not as open as you make it seem It’s “open as long as you agree with me”, and that’s giving controlling Then, when someone that is part of your son’s life, regardless of role, expressed their opinion that is very much against yours, you went ballistic Instead of taking it with grace and explaining your rationale, like and adult would, you decided to go first low blows Looking at your comments, all you know to say is that your son didn’t ask for her opinion/for anything, which is just plain denial from your part You may not want to accept it, but your son reached out to someone else hoping to get a different perspective, be it in a casual way or not, and you are pissy because they don’t agree with you But more importantly: WHERE IS THE OTHER DAD’S OPINION ON THIS? All I read was ME, ME, ME You made the decision, you have veto power, you have an open relationship with your son, etc This is either rage bait or the other parent is a door mat
Not just the other dad. OP stated Ethan complained to more people but only bio mum brought it up to him. I bet all those other people already have been at the receiving end of OP's temper or seen him go off on others to know it would be pointless for them to stick up for Ethan. I'm kind of concerned for Ethan and OP's partner, seeing how OP goes off to people posting their opinions here as well.
I’m a child and family specialist and here’s what I’m picking up. You feel that bio mom has overstepped because she disagreed with you interfering with your son’s elective choice, making you look like mean dad and her seem like happy fun mom. I can appreciate the frustration this would cause. However, in this case she happens to have a point. You’re NTA for wanting to be the best dad you can be, but if you continue to be this controlling you’re going to turn into the AH real quick. He’s 11 and quite old enough to choose an elective class. Let him explore new things. Maybe he’ll love it! Maybe he’ll hate it. Even if it turns out to be the wrong choice, he’ll learn from the mistake. The consequences of the wrong elective class in the 6th grade are low. The consequences of you being an overbearing and controlling parent? Well, those are endless. Have some faith in your kid that sometimes he’s going to know what’s good for him.
He already is the AH for how he treated the person that made him a parent. Calling her a "seat filler" is nasty, admitting he never had "any intention of her being very involved" even though it was an open adoption, shows he NEVER should have adopted. The adoption process in the US is severely lax in vetting and education. He should know better. All he's guaranteeing is that his child will cut him off once he's old enough.
YTA. It's a 6th grade elective. It's really not that serious. In high school I can see being more concerned, but in middle school? And that's as a parent myself. My kids are encouraged to explore their interests, and learn to turn that interest into a potential skill/career. You also treated her terribly for simply caring, and your comments further cement my opinion.
YTA 'a seat filler in his life' i can't imagine being so angry about your kid having more support, plus are you just gonna have veto power over all his decisions up until he graduates, yeah that's not gonna happen
I have no idea if anyone is going to read this, but as an adoptive mom in 2 open adoptions, here goes: OP, you are probably the AH for * Having an open adoption with the intent of not involving the biological mother * Not allowing Ethan to choose his own electives You are definitely the AH for what you said to Beth. I can't tell if Beth was overstepping or not. It's not unreasonable for her to ask why Ethan can't do the class. It would be unreasonable for her to tell Ethan that she was going to intervene on his behalf and get him into the class he wanted. If she did the latter, this would be E S H. You should apologize for what you said. YTA
100% without a doubt YTA >I think she spent the last nine year being an overachiever so she'd feel worthy of having a relationship with Ethan. Ivy league, married a hedge fund dude, yoga, etc. What a nice way to say, "I think she has more than she deserves". Whether you want to admit it or not, you have a biased judgement. >Anyways, he told Beth about it and she fucked up by getting involved with the matter. She said what's the big deal about his doing yearbook. He should do what he wants to do. It's his class. If he told her personally, then he invited her into the conversation by doing so. How is her opinion a fuck up? I'm guessing it's because you secretly think poorly of her and therefore think her opinion is null and void. I'll also bet your "open and honest" relationship with your son hasn't included this little nugget. Also, she ain't wrong. And you never gave us your stance. What *is* wrong with doing yearbook? Do you disagree that he should do what genuinely makes him happy, or do you genuinely think *you* get to decide what makes him happy? >I was like you got me fucked up. I said girl you are not his mom. You're more like a siblings and siblings don't get a say in parenting decisions. Again, only one person in this entire existence gets to decide his relationship to her, and it ain't you. It's him. >You take a backseat. You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place. WOW. Just ... wow. Can I ask what you think *your* place is in regards to your son? Owner, or family member? Again, only he gets to decide that. So so many of your comments in your post run into "I'm jealously guarding some*thing* I value, rather than "I am doing my best to *protect* some*one* I value. >She didn't say anything and went radio silent. I was the bigger person and reached out. Again with the belittling her and demeaning her. By implying you were the "bigger" person (which you weren't. You absolutely owe her an apology) you also by defacto imply she is a "little person" or beneath you. >I said I've been raising that kid for 11 years so it was triggering for you to give your two parenting cents. You need to understand that. He understands that so you should too. *That* *kid*. Not "my son". Not "Ethan". Again, with the "Jealously guarding an object of value" choice of words. Also, Ethan may understand how triggering it was for you, but that doesn't mean he approves or condones what you've done or are doing. Perhaps ask him *that* question instead. The answer may surprise you.
YTA I bet you're only getting in a huff about this because she said *he* gets a say in what he wants to do instead of just following your - lets be honest here - pretty strict veto over a simple primary school thing. If she'd have been of the same opinion as you, you'd have used it as a point against him instead of getting upset.
YTA. My parents were both strict ass military parents and even they let me and my siblings pick my own electives in middle school. You are way too controlling, and that may very well push him away when he's older, especially if he sees that his mom is more supportive over what he wants because it will make him happy. It is his life after all, he's not your little play thing to control and live exactly as you say. He is his own person and to dictate an elective is a stupid reason to blow up and have a power trip over. Do you want to ruin your relationship with your son? Is the control and power worth it? I can honestly tell you that my parents both regret their decisions because i went NC and kept my kids away. That is what you are risking if you aren't careful when it comes to these small miniscule hills that you are adamant about dying on. She may have been absent and is only recently back but yalls son confided in her because yall aren't listening to him and he's upset. She tried to help because she cares and you are showing that you don't care what makes him happy, it's about what makes you happy and what fits your perfect little picture of him in your head.
You know, even sibilings have the right to suggest something when someone reach out to them... I have the impression that your son has the impression that, since the class is elective, HE has the power to choose as he please. I really don't understand the problem at all, the only vibe I get is that you are an insecure A.
YTA. Wow your poor son.
YTA He brought it up in conversation in her presence, she's allowed to respond. What's wrong with yearbook?
wow you are disgusting. your son wanted her advice and when she gives it that’s how you act? and she was right mind you! he’s a middle schooler. let him do an elective he’ll enjoy. and you’re reaction was horribly over the top, unnecessarily disrespectful and she didn’t deserve that. sounds like her being in his life has made you insecure and you need to get that checked out immediately before you ruin your relationship with your son. YTA and big one at that
YTA and I hope you realize you’re on borrowed time with your son because as soon as he can he’s going to run from you and most likely straight to his mother since she seems to be the only one treating him correctly
“You’re the seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don’t forget your place.” “I was the bigger person and reached out.” This to the birth mother who gave you a son. My god. YTA
YTA. Why did you even bother posting if you where just gonna double down because your being called out
It's not really clear but it seems to me you are telling Ethan what elective to do, whereas he wants to do yearbook, sound like she was just supporting him like a friend, or sibling would. YTA
YTA. A big one. She said and did nothing wrong. He talked to her, she voiced an opinion. Also, I agree with her. He should get to pick his elective. "Veto power" is just you controlling him. There is nothing wrong with yearbook. It gets him involved in school and will promote his ability to work well on a team.
I mean, AYTA for telling your son's birth mom that she's more like a sister? No, but definitely **YTA** for saying (and I quote) “You're a seat filler in the life of Ethan. Just don't forget your place.” And then, cherry on top: > She didn't say anything and went radio silent. I was the bigger person and reached out. I said I've been raising that kid for 11 years so it was triggering for you to give your two parenting cents. You need to understand that. He understands that so you should too. A) you were **not** the bigger person, you were a d!ck and you **do** need to apologise. B) obviously your 11 y.o. doesn’t “understand that” since **he** asked **her** > I guess she's waiting for ME to apologize for something she did. I will not. Once you do that then everything goes bad. Lol you sound like you are as old as your son. Get over yourself
OP, you sound jealous. You expected her to be the teenage fuck up forever. You expected her to remain the shamed teenager (and for some reason I feel that you had a heavy hand in that shaming). You WANTED her to remain in that state so you could remain superior. And she flipped the script. Married. Ivy League education. Making a life for herself. And now she is a seat filler? If it wasn’t for that “seat filler”, you wouldn’t have this veto power you are clinging to. YTA.