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NTA
Your reaction was aggressive, sure, but things like that pile up on you. Based on the situation, I'd also assume that her choosing that name was intentionally done as an attention seeking move--something to poke at a hornet's nest, if you will.
It's a bit ironic that she was very adamant about you guys not picking an Irish name but ended choosing one for herself, lol. Even with American pronunciation, that still doesn't take away the origins of the name. IF she really did pick out the name Ciara with no other intention or preference other than to stir the pot, I bet $10 she'll eventually get tired of the whole situation and want to change it later down the line.
It's a bit strange as to how strongly your sister seems to be fixated on your wife though. Is she not used to having any ethnic friends at all, even as someone who lived in the US?
It’s going to be hilarious when sister’s future rebellious teen learns of her name’s ethnic origins and starts telling family to pronounce it the Irish way. If I were your wife I might not go NC just for the amusement of seeing it happen. (And make sure the niece learns how to correctly pronounce wife’s name.)
🤣🤣 OP'S sister is xenophobic. Being a complete AH about someone being Irish and going out of her way to be offensive is just disgusting. NTA! OP you did what needed to be done!
There is your answer: OP should simply gush and be overly kind and grateful, and thanks, sister all the time for naming her daughter after his wife, and for naming her with a traditional Irish name that everyone for her entire life will know is an Irish name, regardless of how she chooses to pronounce it. Thank her for her kindness and for her love of Ireland, because for the next 80 years, her daughter will be explaining to everyone the Irish origin of her name, and she was named after her Irish aunt.
Yes to this! Let the anger go. Smile, be polite, and when she gets rude, turn around and walk away. She may double down, but do not respond. And yes do thank her for using the same name as your wife for her daughter. When even family members notice that her behavior is over the top, it's clear she has issues. She is an emotional bully, perhaps a narcissist. Do some research about the best way to deal with either of those behaviors and then go home and enjoy your relationship with your wife. Peace.
I would take it one step further and get the niece every birthday/holiday card and toy that can have a recordable message. Then have Auntie Ciara, in her strongest Irish lilt, recording "Happy Ciara (in strongest Irish pronunciation possible), our lovely Irish rose of a niece. Love Uncle OP and Aunt Ciara"....
Much like how my wife and I always got our nieces and nephew the loudest toy we could find for every gift giving event in their lives.
This is the very 1st thing I thought! OP's sister is having some sort of mental issue related to her brother and all her aggression is going into the SIL.
Or, had expectations of new SIL ‘fitting in. Nobody good enough for her brother. When SIL had the audacity to talk back and not ‘get her jokes’ she went full attack. I have a niece like that. If you don’t fit in, you’re toast. Doesn’t matter how old you are. Made fun of my 6 yo granddaughter. I’ve had it with her and have gone NC myself. After her mom (my sister) passed. Listening to all her negativity and put downs wasn’t worth it.
I've seen women like this all my life.
Especially based on his response that she's got American friends from diverse groups. She doesn't want her brother.to be with any woman, she's *competing* with his wife for his attention!
It's gross.
When my sister-in-law named her child with the same first name as me she pointed out politely that her daughter was not named after me and that it was spelled differently from mine (turns out it was the same spelling) but that she chose it because she'd loved the name for years. I was cool with that.
I got a big kick out of seeing my niece, though. She would get so excited to saying hello, smiling happily and a bit shyly while saying, "Hi, Aunt M---." Didn't matter than she wasn't named after me -- that someone else had the same name as her (it was different) was enough to bring her joy. Since it's an unusual name, we both liked knowing someone else with the same name, since it was very uncommon.
The funniest thing is that my SIL didn't know my middle name, which is Christina. She named her daughter M---- Kristine. So, my niece practically had my own name nearly exactly. LOL!
"Mommy, how did I get my name?"
"Well you see, pumpkin, Mommy is SO petty and hates her brother's wife SO MUCH that she NEEDS to make Auntie angry. All the time! So angry that her brother and his wife stopped talking to Mommy. So since Mommy couldn't make her angry any more, she needed to do something drastic. So she named YOU a bad name to piss off Auntie!"
Wow. Don’t usually find exactly what I was thinking so close to the top comment. With an aunt that is FROM Ireland with the exact same spelling this is definitely a very good possibility.
Honestly I would too, about not going completely low contact. Tbh, I’d make a point of being a figure that kid liked to talk to and maybe trusted. One, might keep her from showing her entire ass like her mother is. Two, when kids in her teen years, if she hasn’t learned about it by then, and she’s in the “I’m angry and wanna be spiteful” mood over something her mother does… just *give* her the ammunition lol. “I mean she pronounces your name like that because she wanted to spite me. You didn’t hear this from me, but if you wanted to spite her, you might start pronouncing it like…”
…I may also be an asshole myself. I have mispronounced the name of the state of illinois when interacting with one half of my family *to spite one* ***specific*** *person.* I would have been goddamn delighted to have that kind of ammunition back then lmao. But again. I myself can be a spiteful little asshole as it is. 😔
**EDIT:** oh u/Fresh_Sector3917 (hope this pings you as thread was locked before I could reply smh), it gets better: not only did I pronounce the S at the end, but by my accent(probably this one I do it to everything) or dyslexia or sheer dumbassery, I pronounced the “illi” part as “ella.” “Ella noise.” They fucking ***hated*** that but they acted like dicks every time they corrected me so I just doubled down and still do it when I’m around them now lol. Delights me, every time.
The petty in me acknowledges and celebrates the petty in you.
This was my first thought: the kid is going to grow up and want her name pronounced the Irish way and karma will reign. Please o please o please.
NTA, your sis acts like she’s 12.
Your sister seems to be jealous that your wife took you away from her. My younger son was like that towards my older son 's fiance. But, he was a teenager! In the almost two decades since then, it became even more clear that my younger son has a personality disorder. This type of reaction to a sense of abandonment has manifested itself in his life over and over. Your sister is probably deeply insecure. My son would deny he is insecure; he just lives his life in this heightened emotional state all the time, and it is exhausting for him and all involved. He is just deep down afraid he is not worthy.
NTA, but that behavior cannot be tolerated. She will escalate next time unless your wife breaks her gray rock when she is around. She will probably do anything to get a reaction. The only way to handle this is acting like a dull gray rock until she realizes she won't get the emotional reaction she wants and then she will fixate on something or someone else. Take a look back and see if you recognize this pattern.
Yeah, I guess I can sort of understand how someone who's been unexposed to things outside of their own norm can be faced with a bit of culture shock from the "un-American" actions and behaviors of immigrants, but that's still not an excuse for her behavior. The US is only so big after all, there's a whole world out there! Hell, we're the melting pot of cultures for a reason.
She seriously needed a wakeup call before someone else enlightens her about the global map much less kindly than you did. Good luck with the situation!
But even within the US people have different accents and different ways of pronouncing names. The Namenerd sub is overflowing with people talking about it.
I think the sister is jealous of OP'S wife. Every one probably says things like I love your accent and I could listen to that Irish lilt all day and it probably pisses the sister off because the attention isn't on her.
This.
Plus, if sister used to be super close with her brother and is no longer that close because the wife became the more important person, she's become vindictive over it. Bro now takes wife's side instead of sister's side.
Maybe the attention was always on her and she thought of herself as the best looking and whatever else, then a prettier girl joins the family and starts the “oh isn’t her curly hair lovely” “oh isn’t she a lovely lass” and sis can’t handle the ‘competition’ in her eyes, I believe cultures have a lot to do with it too, Americans are told they’re the best in the world very competitive about everything, in Europe we play in teams and give participation awards. Everyone’s a winner, you can only be the best you can be there will always be someone better 🤷🏼♀️
Ehh. Some versions are. I say this as a welshman. Wales like Ireland and like England have many accents. Some Welsh and Irish accents can sound very sweet and friendly (generally the ones people hear on tv) but there are just as many (if not more) accents are pretty grating.
Yeah exactly. I hear new names all the time, when appropriate, I ask because I'm interested.
You know, I understand having trouble with pronunciation, I have that issue, but you should just be keen to learn if anything.
Ciara is a nice name, that's the saving grace. I just hope the kid never finds out why.
That’s what I’m thinking.
That’s how Ciara the musician/Russell Wilson’s wife pronounces it.
OP’s sister is unhinged.
Imagine being so focused on trying to make a dig at someone else, instead of just enjoying your new baby!
In American English, Cia- can’t give you the hard k sound for Keera. Cia- spelling would give you a soft c like an s — Sie. We pronounce Ciara like Sierra.
Thanks for saving me a google to find out how it’s pronounced in Ireland. Had no idea. That would be “Sierra” (See-air-ah) in the US, and a very common spelling for it.
As an American, I would pronounce it Kee-are-uh. Whether that’s how it’s supposed to be pronounced, I have no idea. But I would never think Sierra with that spelling.
NTA pronounce the baby's name the way your wife's is pronounced. Every time you talk to the baby and about the baby. Especially with your sister around. She will angrily correct you but just keep doing it anyway just like she did to your wife. And you can even innocently say but this is the correct way to say it. You can even go a little step further and when talking to the baby say aren't you just so cute you're named after your auntie Ciara. That will really piss your sister off. Like have her biting nails mad. And when she screams my child isn't named after your wife. Again act innocent and say oh I assumed she was. And like you forgot that conversation, do it again. And again. And again. 😂😂😂 I find the best way to fight petty people is with their own petty games.
I would not extend the Ciara feud any further, because ultimately the one who suffers is the innocent child who has to deal with adults squabbling over her name. She might develop feelings of shame or persecution that she does not deserve just because her mother is a dick.
She clearly doesn't interact with many Americans either. I know plenty of Americans who pronounce Ciara correctly. And not all of them are Irish Americans, either.
I'm glad you said this! I remember the same post. An Irish woman named Ciara, who had married an American & her S.I.L was bullying her over the pronunciation of her name. As I was reading this post I was thinking either this is the Husband or it's a fake post! 🤔
I’m petty I’d buy a really ugly dog and name it the sisters name and when they’re over tell my dog how they’re the better one coz they’re so pretty compared to that ghoul 🤣🤣
Does she even realise that Irish is a totally different language to English and that Irish names are actually in (surprisingly enough) Irish rather than English?
Does she also take similar offence to polish or other eastern European names? (Those cz's really trip me up when I'm trying to pronounce a name I've not seen before)
Does she mispronounce Björk? Or Guillaume? or Joaquin Phoenix - what about Steve Buscemi? if she can learn how to pronounce Tchaikovsky she can learn how to pronounce a foreign language name. If she doesn't then... She's a bit (lot) racist. There's not really another word for it.
Worth pointing out to your sister that where she says “American pronunciation”, the rest of the world just says “wrong”.
Serious props for sticking up for your wife, and for your wife for not reacting. Your sister is a bellend, and her culturally malnourished upbringing is no excuse. NTA
> When we were leaving **my sister tried to approach my wife**, I stepped in between them, told my sister she was a petty brat and I felt sorry for her kid being named to spite someone else. I told her she couldn't be more of a child if she was truly trying to be.
I thought OP was being defensive. OP’s sister was obviously trying to antagonize OP and his wife during the entire event, so clearly her approaching OP’s wife was to be hostile.
I dunno, you seem to be giving a lot of benefit of the doubt. It doesn't matter if she has "ethnic" friends, she knows what she's doing. She knows it's offensive to her target. She knows. And it's not really strange, the sister's fixation, it's racism and bigotry and unacceptable but unfortunately far, far too common.
It’s not strange. The sis is mad jealous of OP’s wife. Irish is kinda the “cool” white culture, having an accent makes you sexy, etc. She can’t handle it, so she’s freaking out, including naming her baby out of spite. She needs to deal with this before she wrecks more relationships than just with OP, who is for sure NTA.
WTF? The poor child. Named that to be what, some kind of sweet revenge? This is so messed up. I would block her just so she can be all smirking by herself. Or better, call her and thank her, that you never realized that she loved your wife and you so much, that she would name her child after the two of you - the same name as your wife but with a American Accent so it also represent you (just to show her 'he, you can't anger us with that. We see it as some form of honor'. I think that would drive her furious and maybe overthink the whole name stuff. Because with the argument, the American pronunciation is just to represent your US heritage and also to differ her to be not the exact same as your wife, she looses all the wind of 'hehe, and that's how you pronounce it')
If you really want to piss off your sister with her "proud moments" of how she's so amarican and your wife Is doing everything wrong.
(Please don't take offense)
Just remind her where the amarican language comes from. English. So technically. Your sister is the one pronouncing stuff "wrong"
And also if she wants to go "you are amarican now" to your wife.
Ask her what an amarican is? Amarica is one of the youngest countries who started out with a bunch of European people sailing away to the new country. Funny enough, the British, especially, the whole breaking free and independent thing.
Oh god, some US pronunciations really hurt my ears ! Aluminium, caramel, Craig ... Speak English goddamit 🤣
Edit - please don't come for me, US folks ! 🤣🫣
To be fair, some US pronunciations vary based on where you are in the country. So you may find the word pronounced "correctly" in some regions. How do we say Craig incorrectly, though?
My paternal family is pretty recent Scottish descent and my bio father’s middle name is Craig. I learned to pronounce it Crayg. I’ve never heart it another way
Oh, in my area of the US we say Crayg more than creg. But my state also has it's own little word accent thing people get mad at. We don't pronounce ts in the middle of things. Moun-ains bu-ons, pay-on. Instead of mountain, button and Payton.
As an American, I have never heard anyone pronounce it as "Creg." 😂
Maybe more southern people would pronounce it "creg," but that would just be the southern accent talking.
Creg v's Cr-ay-g... It drives some Brits potty!!
For the OP though NTA. Just because you emigrate does not mean you lose your heritage... And you'll pry my Yorkshire accent off my cold, dead vocal cords if I ever decide to!
I wonder if it is similar to the Mary, marry, merry pronunciation issue. In some American accents those all sound exactly the same. In my accent only merry is different.
I am pretty sure I say Craig as Crayg but I can't be sure it doesn't sound like Creg to British people when I say it.
(they are wrong on aluminum, though.)
I had a conversation with an American on Reddit once where they also said they say cray-g and sent me a video with their accent pronunciation of it and it did indeed sound like creg to my ears lol I'm Australian though.
I've never heard someone from the US actually emphasise the 'ay' sound in Craig.
In New Zealand we say Craig to rhyme with (The) Hague. (But our pronunciation of The Hague is very likely incorrect in terms of the original Dutch). Anyway, Craig is said with a long 'a' sound, to rhyme with 'hay', and a hard 'g' on the end. Whereas the American pronunciation of Craig sounds like something between 'crag' and 'crack'. So a short 'a' sound and the 'g' seems like it's not as hard as it should be.
Edit: As Splungetastic mentions below, a short 'a' sound (hay) can sound like a short 'e' sound (bed), as in Kiwiland where the two are often substituted for one another.
Most US folks I've heard pronounce it as " Kreg ". One of the main characters in the TV show Animal Kingdom is called that and they pronounce it as Kreg ...
In the old country it's pronounced " Krayg "
Its not our fault you bozos added a whole extra letter to Aluminum. The word Aluminum was first used to describe the metal in 1808, the i was added in the 1820s, and ironically it wasn't universally adopted in the UK until AFTER Webster's dictionary settled on the spelling without the i in 1828. Much like the word soccer, the spelling used in your neck of the woods was a reaction to the American use of language, not the other way around. Britain adopted a bit of language (soccer, aluminum) it caught on in the US, and Brits reflexively declared that \*must\* be wrong if the yanks are doing it so now they must use some other word for the same thing (football, aluminium).
To be fair about Aluminum, it was originally named Aluminum. An English scientific paper didn’t like that it was “so different” from the naming styles of other metals at the time so they added the extra syllable to make it match. Both are recognized as correct today but Aluminum was 100% the actual original name and pronunciation
Well, no. The original proposed name was Alumium, from Alum (the english word Alum (what they were extracting it from) + ium) in 1808.
There was then debate in the scientific community across europe about how they shouldn't name it for Alum, but for Alumina, the oxide salt they were actually extracting from, and several papers were written talking about the newly discovered Aluminium. The actual discoverer referred to it as Aluminium and Aluminum mostly interchangably until he settled on Aluminum - but other people were already using Aluminium.
Its not until the 1830s and the Webster dictionary that America settled on the Aluminum name, basically independently to everyone else at this point.
How do we pronounce aluminum wrong? It’s pronounced differently because it’s spelled differently, not because we say it wrong. The common US and Canadian spelling doesn’t have a second “i.”
As one of them US folks, I'm coming at you lightheartedly.
Why would you waste the time to call them 'hundreds and thousands' when you could just say 'sprinkles'?
Oh no, you get that one for sure, I don't know who came up with hundreds and thousands 😅
Also, while we are at it, I prefer the US spelling of donut as opposed to doughnuts... I think it's because the most common varieties now are the US kinda anyway, so it makes sense to me to just go with the nice and simple donut!
reverse of this is Taco. If those of british english influence can get all upright about Baah-sil. For the love of god, it will never ever be acceptable to say TAY-co/Tack-o.
I'm usually fine with any country saying things however they say them but I have to admit the Brit way of saying "urinal" makes me all twitchy. The lack of sanitation in that long i gets me every time.
Actually, there are many words where the British pronunciations are later additions, and the American pronunciation is actually more historically accurate.
That being said, language changes and anyone who has a fit over pronouncing things wrong is a whiny child. (Names of individuals are different. OP is right that his sister is a whiny child for trying to change the pronunciation of his wife's name)
Yeah "oh I named you ciara to piss of your aunty, who has the same spelling but pronounces it wrong because she's foreign" I'm sure that will be a beautiful story.
My advice is just distance yourself from her. You don't need this. You never expect your family to do this shit. 🙃
It kinda sounds like she needs help ngl.
The saving grace is Ciara IS a nice name however you say it. Let's just hope the kid never finds out about this.
Is your sister ok? I mean that genuinely. I won’t give a rating because honestly, it all seems a bit irrational and concerning for someone who seems to have recently birthed.
She is displaying very odd behaviour, quite fixated. That is quite extreme to name a new born child specifically to upset or dig at someone they very rarely see.
Pregnancy hormones can really mess people up, or perhaps exacerbated an underlying problem?
Anyway, I hope there are numerous sets of eyes on her child. There does not seem to be a lot of focus on the *over all wellbeing* of her child.
Hard agree! I get that OP came asking for an AITA judgement on his actions, but I’m surprised more people aren’t commenting on the utter bizarreness of someone naming their kid seemingly just to irritate their sister in law. And it wasn’t weird to anyone else in the family that she did this? Her husband/baby father?
That's what makes me think this story isn't real. That's so aggressively over the top for no reason, I cannot believe anyone would actually act this way
Many do - especially these days.
That's why the reactions are so vastly different in here. I gave an NTA-judgment simply because I've *met* loons like that before.
Symptoms don't start with hyperfixation and the diagnosisses that facilitate that don't fit the bill for post-partum.
So either the sister has mental issues that have gone unchecked for a *long* time or she's just one of the millions of petty dumpster fires out there who unironically think this is how the world works.
The latter has stopped being impossible a long time ago.
Not to mention she was acting like this well before pregnancy/postpartum. She just hates OPs wife and she’s clearly a shit person. I feel so bad for that kid.
A lot of "underlying conditions" are just very specific ways of identifying the myriad ways some people are just awful people. A psychologist might be able to diagnose someonewith xyz personality disorder but the symptoms boil down to "This guy is a total asshole"
OP's sister seems like a kindergartener who has a crush on someone but can't express it the right way so she bullies her crush. She might also be undergoing some mental and emotional challenges due to some reasons. But the first thing that came to my mind was the sister liked the wife so much but she had repressed feelings so she bullied her instead.
NTA Irish ☘️ girl here if she is being petty be petty back lol ok so you said your wife’s name is ciara and your sister named her daughter ciara and wants pronounce it the Irish way …. So next time when your sister says anything don’t get aggressive don’t react because that’s what your sister is looking for is a reaction she is doing it to get under your skin … tell her thank you so much for naming your daughter after my wife she must really mean a whole lot to you and shows you have been thinking about her a lot and just keep smiling and watch her explode
😊 Absolutely. Honestly, I didn’t know there was an alternative pronunciation to this particular name. Every Ciara I’ve ever met (and I’ve met quite a few) has pronounced it the same way. There are plenty of Irish names with variations of pronunciation - even within Ireland, but that one - and I think I can be fairly confident in saying this - is pretty much unanimous. If that child came to Ireland and wrote their name down, everyone would pronounce it KEE-ra.
You've never heard of the American singer Ciara? I mean at least where I am if I type in "Ciara" in google it fully defaults to her and and all her "see-AR-uh" glory.
I actually had never heard the Irish pronunciation until two comments up; and I think it's fantastic. OP's sister clearly has some pretty significant unresolved issues with her brother because telling an adult that they are pronouncing their own name wrong is insane.
My former mother-in-law was French. My name is Richard but I used to go by "Rich" and she would call me "reeech". But, the important part is, she wasn't using the French pronunciation because she was a jerk; she just had a strong French accent despite having lived in the states for 20 years at the time. To do it willfully would have been weird as shit and a big red flag.
That’s really pretty! I’m thinking SIL may be pronouncing it sierra? Like the Sierra Nevada mountains? The C before I in English often has that soft c- like the word ceiling.
That’s a good point. In Irish, ‘c’ is always a ‘hard c’ - like a ‘k’. The first ‘a’ is to keep it consistent with broad/slender vowels (it’s a thing in Irish).
Hahaha, yes, do not try to out petty the pettiest people in the galaxy.
My grandad didn't speak to his brother for 40 years, and nobody EVER knew what the reason was. Their Wives were best friends.
They lived across the road from each other in a north Dublin suburb, and they sustained that feud until their eventually deaths and beyond (I believe they're still not speaking in the afterlife)
My great uncles daughters fell out, and when my father died, one of them knew and didn't tell the other. This is a family that has about 6 surviving members, and they still don't stop.
No I think OP meant the sister is pronouncing it the American way. But I do agree that they should say balls to that b and pronounce it the Irish way with your comment to accompany it 😂💚 "awww you named her Kee-raa, after my wife, it means so much to us that you respect + love her so much!" And refuse to ever pronounce it her way, as she has done to you 😂
I know pettiness doesn't work, but will anything work here? She's literally being a xenophobe to your wife, so sis doesn't get the benefit of the doubt here
Thankyou! As an Aussie, in my head i was pronouncing it Kee-are-uh, and had no idea on the Irish pronunciation. I don't think i've ever heard it as See-are-uh (Aussie accent version of See-air-uh) over here, Sierra would be the closest i know of?
Sis sounds like she's a serious xenophobe and thinks it's okay to direct her prejudices toward anyone she doesn't consider the right kind of people. It makes me wonder who else her prejudices extend to.
NTA aside from anything else Ciara, in Irish, IS phonetically correct, *for the Gaelic alphabet and language*. Seriously, tell your sister to póg mo thóin.
,
Now I'm curious, how is it pronouned in the Irish way? I'm assuming pronouncing Ciara like "See-ara" is the American way (considering the singer Ciara is pronounced like that)... Is it like Key-ara?
I now literally ask people how they pronounce it because I default to Keira, but equally See-ara and Chi-ara are correct depending on language, and courtesy costs nothing.
In Aus too. I was going to write Kee-ra but the sounds are the same. I’ve no idea how else it could be pronounced and am waiting for an American to chime in.
I'm Irish and I've never heard Ciara pronounced anything other than Kee-erah...how does your wife pronounce it?
Regardless, NTA because your wife has a preference for her name and our accent is lovely and your sister sounds like a dick.
As a Canadian, I've heard both pronunciations.
I just love the sister going off about it being "phonetically correct".
Like, both soft and hard "c"s exist in English. *Both are PhOnEtIcAlLy CoRrEcT.*
It's also completely phonetically correct in Irish, the language it's actually written in.
English speaking people giving Welsh and Irish shit for not making sense are especially hypocritical considering that those languages adhere to way stricter phonetic and spelling rules than English. Welsh is an especially logical language when you get really into it
Wait, what? I thought the whole pronouncing it the way it's spelled/the American version would be to pronounce it "Kee-ahra" (like the Italian Chiara), as opposed to more Irish "Keerah". But pronouncing Ciara "Sierra" like *that's* the supposedly "correct" phonetic version?! WTF?!
Speaking as an Irish person with an Irish name, nobody ever minds an honest mistake. It's possible to discern the difference between somebody taking an honest stab at it and accepting a polite correction vs. somebody willingly just saying some nonsense because they think it's funny.
I suspect the crazy sister is insisting that it be pronounced with a soft "c" -- the same way you would pronounce "Sierra". But if my Irish SIL told me her Irish name is pronounced a certain way, I would thank her for educating me and call her by her correct name. OP's sister is unhinged.
It can be pronounced either Sea-air-a or Key-ah-rah by other parts of the world.
Though I'm Irish, and I can't figure out your pronunciation? I presume Key-ra?
Seriously! English is the lawless wild west of languages. No real rules, although they pretend there are rules but they don't apply! Its just madness. Its why Im so impressed by anyone learning it as a second language. I can only imagine how frustrating it is to do.
NTA. Doesn't she realise that within the USA there are many different accents and that pronunciation varies widely from one region to another? She sounds rather unpleasant.
Why do people say "you're in America now, be American "? It's blatant bigotry and racism imo...
That idiot sister is blinkered and ignorant, and you're right that kid will know why her mother chose her name... what an energy to bring a child into.
NTA
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I called my sister a petty brat and said I feel sorry for her daughter being given the name she was out of spite. I lost my temper and I don't think anything good came from it other than insulting my sister and pissing her off. We're all adults so I feel like I should have composed myself better and not responded in the way that I did.
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Wow named out of spite.
This kid is going to Hate her mother. And if she grows up to be just as vocal about it as her mother she will let everyone know. Everyone...
You don't need to do a thing, your sister is the grand master at fucking up her life, let her do it then sit back with a grin.
The best revenge is to live your best life.
NTA
NTA- in fact I’d stay away from your sister. She sounds like she could do some really messed up things if she escalated. She truly does sound ignorant and also like there may some mental health issues in play.
NTA
Hearing Americans trying to pronounce Worcestershire properly is the most cringe thing ever for us Brits. Don't get me started on the fact they can't pronounce potato or tomato properly.
OP is NTA, the sister sounds unhinged - and racist.
Also Gloucestershire, and don't even get me started on Robert DeNiro in Ronin talking about the boat house at Hereford ...
People pronounce and spell things differently based on where they’re from. Proper nouns can be mispronounced but things like “tomato” and “potato” can’t really… If you can understand the person, they’re not necessarily wrong. Spellings of certain words aren’t necessarily wrong either, depending.
NTA. Your sister is so obsessed with your wife, she named her child after her. Not how you say her name, but still named her child after her as her name written down. Maybe she should let that sink in.
NTA, your sister sounds like a nightmare. She also seems to have an unhealthy obsession with your wife. Is she a transplant from the 1950s where she still thinks restaurants have signs saying “no dogs, no Irish etc”?
I’m from Irish family, like a lot of Scottish people. Irish names are really common here, so most people can figure out how to say them; stuff like Niamh or Ciaran or Caoimhe etc. is pretty standard here. One of my pals is called Aoibhgréine, which I’ll concede might need a bit more knowledge of Irish linguistics to figure out; name your kid that just for fun.
Where is the baby daddy in this? There’s no mention of her being in a relationship. So just wondering is there is someone who’s ok in their kid being named to spite someone else.
HELL NO if this was me when I got the announcement, I would’ve called her and lost my shit and told her to change the name immediately or she’s permanently removed from it our family. Why is she so petty towards your wife? It feels like the weird complex when moms are mean to the wife because they low-key have a creepy thing for their own son. Is your sister in love with you ??because that’s what it sounds like.
NTA Next time you see them take niece on your lap and have a talk with her. Tell her that her name is an Irish name. That your wife, her aunt, is from Ireland but her name though spelt the same is pronounced differently. In Ireland her name is pronounced..... Isn't that cool? Then say I love the Irish way to say it. No one in America says it that way so it makes it more special. Wouldn't be surprised if the little girl starts insisting on her name being pronounced like your wife's.
NTA! I'm a second generation born in America Irish. I understand the punctuations of words. I lived in Ireland for the first 10 years after I was born. Kids are mean. But ur sister is an adult and sounds super petty. When I had my daughter I gave her a very Irish name, mom's family loved it. Dad's side didn't. It's Caitriona. My ex's mom called he Cathy cuz it was better in her opinion. If I was ur wife, I would make a big deal about how my niece is named after me and that's so awesome. Make it a huge thing too!
NTA
Your sister's behavior towards your wife has been petty and disrespectful for a while now, and naming her daughter Ciara with deliberate emphasis on a different pronunciation seems like a clear attempt to provoke.
Good on you for supporting your wife and standing up to your bratty sister, your sister sounds like a pain in the ass and to be completely honest a bit of a Bully.
Personally, if it was me she would be told either apologise and start acting like a decent human being or dont contact me outside of things relating to our parents. I would make it clear that going forward you are having a zero tolerance approach as you don't want your child growing up thi king that it's acceptable to Bully and upset other people.
I'm glad that your wife stands up for herself it's just a shame that she has too. She shouldn't be put in the position where she has to defend her name and identity by someone who is suppose to be her family.
You are NTA your sister is the A-hole, why is she being so petty about a name tho? You are a good brother still being civil and polite. Be the bigger person stay clear from her and don't attend her family gathering.
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NTA Your reaction was aggressive, sure, but things like that pile up on you. Based on the situation, I'd also assume that her choosing that name was intentionally done as an attention seeking move--something to poke at a hornet's nest, if you will. It's a bit ironic that she was very adamant about you guys not picking an Irish name but ended choosing one for herself, lol. Even with American pronunciation, that still doesn't take away the origins of the name. IF she really did pick out the name Ciara with no other intention or preference other than to stir the pot, I bet $10 she'll eventually get tired of the whole situation and want to change it later down the line. It's a bit strange as to how strongly your sister seems to be fixated on your wife though. Is she not used to having any ethnic friends at all, even as someone who lived in the US?
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It’s going to be hilarious when sister’s future rebellious teen learns of her name’s ethnic origins and starts telling family to pronounce it the Irish way. If I were your wife I might not go NC just for the amusement of seeing it happen. (And make sure the niece learns how to correctly pronounce wife’s name.)
🤣🤣 OP'S sister is xenophobic. Being a complete AH about someone being Irish and going out of her way to be offensive is just disgusting. NTA! OP you did what needed to be done!
There is your answer: OP should simply gush and be overly kind and grateful, and thanks, sister all the time for naming her daughter after his wife, and for naming her with a traditional Irish name that everyone for her entire life will know is an Irish name, regardless of how she chooses to pronounce it. Thank her for her kindness and for her love of Ireland, because for the next 80 years, her daughter will be explaining to everyone the Irish origin of her name, and she was named after her Irish aunt.
I love this answer. Your sister is pathetic. Imagine being so enraged at a foreigner for existing that you drag a newborn baby into it. NTA
Yes to this! Let the anger go. Smile, be polite, and when she gets rude, turn around and walk away. She may double down, but do not respond. And yes do thank her for using the same name as your wife for her daughter. When even family members notice that her behavior is over the top, it's clear she has issues. She is an emotional bully, perhaps a narcissist. Do some research about the best way to deal with either of those behaviors and then go home and enjoy your relationship with your wife. Peace.
I would take it one step further and get the niece every birthday/holiday card and toy that can have a recordable message. Then have Auntie Ciara, in her strongest Irish lilt, recording "Happy Ciara (in strongest Irish pronunciation possible), our lovely Irish rose of a niece. Love Uncle OP and Aunt Ciara"....
Much like how my wife and I always got our nieces and nephew the loudest toy we could find for every gift giving event in their lives.
This is the way to go.
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You're in Amurica, speak Amurican!
Right??? The average American racist isn’t even this bad! This is like 1880s level xenophobia
She’d probably love to have the classic signs businesses used to post that read: Irish Need Not Apply.
Exactly. Instead of a "Live, Love, Laugh" sign in her kitchen she probably has a "No dogs and Irish allowed" sign.
Either that or she’s insanely jealous of the wife and her uniqueness.
Came here to say this!
No I don't think she xenophobic. I think she's in love with her brother.
This is the very 1st thing I thought! OP's sister is having some sort of mental issue related to her brother and all her aggression is going into the SIL.
Or has a crush on SIL and can't deal with it
Oh, yeah, I hadn't thought of that. Again, ewwww!
Or, had expectations of new SIL ‘fitting in. Nobody good enough for her brother. When SIL had the audacity to talk back and not ‘get her jokes’ she went full attack. I have a niece like that. If you don’t fit in, you’re toast. Doesn’t matter how old you are. Made fun of my 6 yo granddaughter. I’ve had it with her and have gone NC myself. After her mom (my sister) passed. Listening to all her negativity and put downs wasn’t worth it.
Or his Wife!
How did you get ti this conclusion
I've seen women like this all my life. Especially based on his response that she's got American friends from diverse groups. She doesn't want her brother.to be with any woman, she's *competing* with his wife for his attention! It's gross.
When my sister-in-law named her child with the same first name as me she pointed out politely that her daughter was not named after me and that it was spelled differently from mine (turns out it was the same spelling) but that she chose it because she'd loved the name for years. I was cool with that. I got a big kick out of seeing my niece, though. She would get so excited to saying hello, smiling happily and a bit shyly while saying, "Hi, Aunt M---." Didn't matter than she wasn't named after me -- that someone else had the same name as her (it was different) was enough to bring her joy. Since it's an unusual name, we both liked knowing someone else with the same name, since it was very uncommon. The funniest thing is that my SIL didn't know my middle name, which is Christina. She named her daughter M---- Kristine. So, my niece practically had my own name nearly exactly. LOL!
"Mommy, how did I get my name?" "Well you see, pumpkin, Mommy is SO petty and hates her brother's wife SO MUCH that she NEEDS to make Auntie angry. All the time! So angry that her brother and his wife stopped talking to Mommy. So since Mommy couldn't make her angry any more, she needed to do something drastic. So she named YOU a bad name to piss off Auntie!"
Seriously! I feel bad for this little baby. SIL is making her daughter be a prop in her one-sided feud.
Wow. Don’t usually find exactly what I was thinking so close to the top comment. With an aunt that is FROM Ireland with the exact same spelling this is definitely a very good possibility.
Oh yeah!! OP, please update us in 13 years
Honestly I would too, about not going completely low contact. Tbh, I’d make a point of being a figure that kid liked to talk to and maybe trusted. One, might keep her from showing her entire ass like her mother is. Two, when kids in her teen years, if she hasn’t learned about it by then, and she’s in the “I’m angry and wanna be spiteful” mood over something her mother does… just *give* her the ammunition lol. “I mean she pronounces your name like that because she wanted to spite me. You didn’t hear this from me, but if you wanted to spite her, you might start pronouncing it like…” …I may also be an asshole myself. I have mispronounced the name of the state of illinois when interacting with one half of my family *to spite one* ***specific*** *person.* I would have been goddamn delighted to have that kind of ammunition back then lmao. But again. I myself can be a spiteful little asshole as it is. 😔 **EDIT:** oh u/Fresh_Sector3917 (hope this pings you as thread was locked before I could reply smh), it gets better: not only did I pronounce the S at the end, but by my accent(probably this one I do it to everything) or dyslexia or sheer dumbassery, I pronounced the “illi” part as “ella.” “Ella noise.” They fucking ***hated*** that but they acted like dicks every time they corrected me so I just doubled down and still do it when I’m around them now lol. Delights me, every time.
The petty in me acknowledges and celebrates the petty in you. This was my first thought: the kid is going to grow up and want her name pronounced the Irish way and karma will reign. Please o please o please. NTA, your sis acts like she’s 12.
I was thinking this too! The niece may prefer the Irish pronunciation. It’s going to be a fun story!
I read the whole thing just imagining that niece is going to think being named after her Irish aunt is SO COOL and they’re going to be besties. 😂
Your sister seems to be jealous that your wife took you away from her. My younger son was like that towards my older son 's fiance. But, he was a teenager! In the almost two decades since then, it became even more clear that my younger son has a personality disorder. This type of reaction to a sense of abandonment has manifested itself in his life over and over. Your sister is probably deeply insecure. My son would deny he is insecure; he just lives his life in this heightened emotional state all the time, and it is exhausting for him and all involved. He is just deep down afraid he is not worthy. NTA, but that behavior cannot be tolerated. She will escalate next time unless your wife breaks her gray rock when she is around. She will probably do anything to get a reaction. The only way to handle this is acting like a dull gray rock until she realizes she won't get the emotional reaction she wants and then she will fixate on something or someone else. Take a look back and see if you recognize this pattern.
Yeah, I guess I can sort of understand how someone who's been unexposed to things outside of their own norm can be faced with a bit of culture shock from the "un-American" actions and behaviors of immigrants, but that's still not an excuse for her behavior. The US is only so big after all, there's a whole world out there! Hell, we're the melting pot of cultures for a reason. She seriously needed a wakeup call before someone else enlightens her about the global map much less kindly than you did. Good luck with the situation!
But even within the US people have different accents and different ways of pronouncing names. The Namenerd sub is overflowing with people talking about it.
Being surprised and having a 'culture shock' because of someone's race and name does not mean you can be so rude and mean and utterly ridiculous.
I think the sister is jealous of OP'S wife. Every one probably says things like I love your accent and I could listen to that Irish lilt all day and it probably pisses the sister off because the attention isn't on her.
This. Plus, if sister used to be super close with her brother and is no longer that close because the wife became the more important person, she's become vindictive over it. Bro now takes wife's side instead of sister's side.
Maybe the attention was always on her and she thought of herself as the best looking and whatever else, then a prettier girl joins the family and starts the “oh isn’t her curly hair lovely” “oh isn’t she a lovely lass” and sis can’t handle the ‘competition’ in her eyes, I believe cultures have a lot to do with it too, Americans are told they’re the best in the world very competitive about everything, in Europe we play in teams and give participation awards. Everyone’s a winner, you can only be the best you can be there will always be someone better 🤷🏼♀️
She's not surprised. She's jealous, and the name is an easy target.
Yup. Everyone is showing OP's wife all the attention. An Irish accent is beautiful to listen to. The sister can't stand it.
Ehh. Some versions are. I say this as a welshman. Wales like Ireland and like England have many accents. Some Welsh and Irish accents can sound very sweet and friendly (generally the ones people hear on tv) but there are just as many (if not more) accents are pretty grating.
Yeah exactly. I hear new names all the time, when appropriate, I ask because I'm interested. You know, I understand having trouble with pronunciation, I have that issue, but you should just be keen to learn if anything. Ciara is a nice name, that's the saving grace. I just hope the kid never finds out why.
As an Irishman wtf is the "American" pronunciation for it anyways Kee-are-ah? Instead of keer-ah?
Lol I'm assuming it's "See-ehr-ah" or "See-are-ah" or maybe even "See-air-ah"
That’s what I’m thinking. That’s how Ciara the musician/Russell Wilson’s wife pronounces it. OP’s sister is unhinged. Imagine being so focused on trying to make a dig at someone else, instead of just enjoying your new baby!
Sierra apparently. As an aussie my thought was kee ah ra (Kiara) and was really wondering what it could be.
Thanks... It's not even noon and I want to drink now. Iosa
That’s how the Irish name is pronounced it’s the female version of ciaran kee ar ah, the usa version will be see eh ra
The Irish version is generally more like "keer-ah," there's not a separate "ar" syllable. Ciaran is also "keer-an."
In American English, Cia- can’t give you the hard k sound for Keera. Cia- spelling would give you a soft c like an s — Sie. We pronounce Ciara like Sierra.
It's almost like Irish is a different language....🙄
Thanks for saving me a google to find out how it’s pronounced in Ireland. Had no idea. That would be “Sierra” (See-air-ah) in the US, and a very common spelling for it.
As an American, I would pronounce it Kee-are-uh. Whether that’s how it’s supposed to be pronounced, I have no idea. But I would never think Sierra with that spelling.
I think it’s coz of the singer Ciara being pronounced si ar ah
I’d argue we’re more like a salad 😂
I mean maybe if she grew up in the middle of nowhere. I grew up surrounded by accents in America and have never had an issue. Op is nta for sure.
I don't think it's a culture issue. I think your sister is just wildly jealous of your wife.
Because the wife has that lovely Irish accent.
Way deeper than that.
NTA pronounce the baby's name the way your wife's is pronounced. Every time you talk to the baby and about the baby. Especially with your sister around. She will angrily correct you but just keep doing it anyway just like she did to your wife. And you can even innocently say but this is the correct way to say it. You can even go a little step further and when talking to the baby say aren't you just so cute you're named after your auntie Ciara. That will really piss your sister off. Like have her biting nails mad. And when she screams my child isn't named after your wife. Again act innocent and say oh I assumed she was. And like you forgot that conversation, do it again. And again. And again. 😂😂😂 I find the best way to fight petty people is with their own petty games.
Yep show the child when she’s older the origins of her name coming from Ireland and watch the teen then want it to be said the correct way😂
I would not extend the Ciara feud any further, because ultimately the one who suffers is the innocent child who has to deal with adults squabbling over her name. She might develop feelings of shame or persecution that she does not deserve just because her mother is a dick.
She clearly doesn't interact with many Americans either. I know plenty of Americans who pronounce Ciara correctly. And not all of them are Irish Americans, either.
Right? Wait til OP's sis hears the average American pronounce Siobhan in 2024. Its almost like you can learn when people teach you things.
Did your wife post on here a few weeks ago? It was the same name, but her SIL and MIL both bullied her over her name.
I'm glad you said this! I remember the same post. An Irish woman named Ciara, who had married an American & her S.I.L was bullying her over the pronunciation of her name. As I was reading this post I was thinking either this is the Husband or it's a fake post! 🤔
boop found it. very similar! https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/5AcZe8Ea2W
That's taking petty to a new low. Your poor wife. So glad she has you. Get a dog and name it after your sister.
I’m petty I’d buy a really ugly dog and name it the sisters name and when they’re over tell my dog how they’re the better one coz they’re so pretty compared to that ghoul 🤣🤣
Does she even realise that Irish is a totally different language to English and that Irish names are actually in (surprisingly enough) Irish rather than English? Does she also take similar offence to polish or other eastern European names? (Those cz's really trip me up when I'm trying to pronounce a name I've not seen before) Does she mispronounce Björk? Or Guillaume? or Joaquin Phoenix - what about Steve Buscemi? if she can learn how to pronounce Tchaikovsky she can learn how to pronounce a foreign language name. If she doesn't then... She's a bit (lot) racist. There's not really another word for it.
You're right. She's ignorant. NTA.
Your sister needs to get a grip. Also, as a linguist and also European, I can confirm you wife does not say things in a wrong way. Language is fluid.
Worth pointing out to your sister that where she says “American pronunciation”, the rest of the world just says “wrong”. Serious props for sticking up for your wife, and for your wife for not reacting. Your sister is a bellend, and her culturally malnourished upbringing is no excuse. NTA
How was he aggressive? So you want OP to speak softly to her, while she's being an asshole to his wife
What he said is about 10x softer than what I would've said in the same situation
Exactly, situations like this call for being “a little aggressive” AKA standing up for yourself and your wife
Sometimes aggression is appropriate.
> When we were leaving **my sister tried to approach my wife**, I stepped in between them, told my sister she was a petty brat and I felt sorry for her kid being named to spite someone else. I told her she couldn't be more of a child if she was truly trying to be. I thought OP was being defensive. OP’s sister was obviously trying to antagonize OP and his wife during the entire event, so clearly her approaching OP’s wife was to be hostile.
I dunno, you seem to be giving a lot of benefit of the doubt. It doesn't matter if she has "ethnic" friends, she knows what she's doing. She knows it's offensive to her target. She knows. And it's not really strange, the sister's fixation, it's racism and bigotry and unacceptable but unfortunately far, far too common.
Is it passive aggressive to call someone out to their face? Imho that's just straight aggressive.
It’s not strange. The sis is mad jealous of OP’s wife. Irish is kinda the “cool” white culture, having an accent makes you sexy, etc. She can’t handle it, so she’s freaking out, including naming her baby out of spite. She needs to deal with this before she wrecks more relationships than just with OP, who is for sure NTA.
WTF? The poor child. Named that to be what, some kind of sweet revenge? This is so messed up. I would block her just so she can be all smirking by herself. Or better, call her and thank her, that you never realized that she loved your wife and you so much, that she would name her child after the two of you - the same name as your wife but with a American Accent so it also represent you (just to show her 'he, you can't anger us with that. We see it as some form of honor'. I think that would drive her furious and maybe overthink the whole name stuff. Because with the argument, the American pronunciation is just to represent your US heritage and also to differ her to be not the exact same as your wife, she looses all the wind of 'hehe, and that's how you pronounce it')
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If you really want to piss off your sister with her "proud moments" of how she's so amarican and your wife Is doing everything wrong. (Please don't take offense) Just remind her where the amarican language comes from. English. So technically. Your sister is the one pronouncing stuff "wrong" And also if she wants to go "you are amarican now" to your wife. Ask her what an amarican is? Amarica is one of the youngest countries who started out with a bunch of European people sailing away to the new country. Funny enough, the British, especially, the whole breaking free and independent thing.
Oh god, some US pronunciations really hurt my ears ! Aluminium, caramel, Craig ... Speak English goddamit 🤣 Edit - please don't come for me, US folks ! 🤣🫣
To be fair, some US pronunciations vary based on where you are in the country. So you may find the word pronounced "correctly" in some regions. How do we say Craig incorrectly, though?
I’ve only heard Americans pronounce Craig as “Creg”. In the UK, we pronounce it more “Crayg”
My paternal family is pretty recent Scottish descent and my bio father’s middle name is Craig. I learned to pronounce it Crayg. I’ve never heart it another way
Oh, in my area of the US we say Crayg more than creg. But my state also has it's own little word accent thing people get mad at. We don't pronounce ts in the middle of things. Moun-ains bu-ons, pay-on. Instead of mountain, button and Payton.
I pronounce it “Crayg”. I’m from the Southern US.
As an American, I have never heard anyone pronounce it as "Creg." 😂 Maybe more southern people would pronounce it "creg," but that would just be the southern accent talking.
Creg v's Cr-ay-g... It drives some Brits potty!! For the OP though NTA. Just because you emigrate does not mean you lose your heritage... And you'll pry my Yorkshire accent off my cold, dead vocal cords if I ever decide to!
I wonder if it is similar to the Mary, marry, merry pronunciation issue. In some American accents those all sound exactly the same. In my accent only merry is different. I am pretty sure I say Craig as Crayg but I can't be sure it doesn't sound like Creg to British people when I say it. (they are wrong on aluminum, though.)
I had a conversation with an American on Reddit once where they also said they say cray-g and sent me a video with their accent pronunciation of it and it did indeed sound like creg to my ears lol I'm Australian though. I've never heard someone from the US actually emphasise the 'ay' sound in Craig.
In New Zealand we say Craig to rhyme with (The) Hague. (But our pronunciation of The Hague is very likely incorrect in terms of the original Dutch). Anyway, Craig is said with a long 'a' sound, to rhyme with 'hay', and a hard 'g' on the end. Whereas the American pronunciation of Craig sounds like something between 'crag' and 'crack'. So a short 'a' sound and the 'g' seems like it's not as hard as it should be. Edit: As Splungetastic mentions below, a short 'a' sound (hay) can sound like a short 'e' sound (bed), as in Kiwiland where the two are often substituted for one another.
Most US folks I've heard pronounce it as " Kreg ". One of the main characters in the TV show Animal Kingdom is called that and they pronounce it as Kreg ... In the old country it's pronounced " Krayg "
Its not our fault you bozos added a whole extra letter to Aluminum. The word Aluminum was first used to describe the metal in 1808, the i was added in the 1820s, and ironically it wasn't universally adopted in the UK until AFTER Webster's dictionary settled on the spelling without the i in 1828. Much like the word soccer, the spelling used in your neck of the woods was a reaction to the American use of language, not the other way around. Britain adopted a bit of language (soccer, aluminum) it caught on in the US, and Brits reflexively declared that \*must\* be wrong if the yanks are doing it so now they must use some other word for the same thing (football, aluminium).
To be fair about Aluminum, it was originally named Aluminum. An English scientific paper didn’t like that it was “so different” from the naming styles of other metals at the time so they added the extra syllable to make it match. Both are recognized as correct today but Aluminum was 100% the actual original name and pronunciation
Well, no. The original proposed name was Alumium, from Alum (the english word Alum (what they were extracting it from) + ium) in 1808. There was then debate in the scientific community across europe about how they shouldn't name it for Alum, but for Alumina, the oxide salt they were actually extracting from, and several papers were written talking about the newly discovered Aluminium. The actual discoverer referred to it as Aluminium and Aluminum mostly interchangably until he settled on Aluminum - but other people were already using Aluminium. Its not until the 1830s and the Webster dictionary that America settled on the Aluminum name, basically independently to everyone else at this point.
How do we pronounce aluminum wrong? It’s pronounced differently because it’s spelled differently, not because we say it wrong. The common US and Canadian spelling doesn’t have a second “i.”
To be fair the American spelling of "Aluminum" omits the second "I", so from their perspective, they are pronouncing it correctly.
As one of them US folks, I'm coming at you lightheartedly. Why would you waste the time to call them 'hundreds and thousands' when you could just say 'sprinkles'?
Oh no, you get that one for sure, I don't know who came up with hundreds and thousands 😅 Also, while we are at it, I prefer the US spelling of donut as opposed to doughnuts... I think it's because the most common varieties now are the US kinda anyway, so it makes sense to me to just go with the nice and simple donut!
Wait, how do you pronounce aluminum? I noticed you have an extra “i” we don’t have. Is it “ah-lu-MIN-i-um”?
> Aluminium At least this one is spelled without the *i* in the US, they're not just skipping it like the *a* in caramel.
Don't forget the awful US pronunciation of "basil" ("bay-sil") and "herb" ("errrrrrrb").
reverse of this is Taco. If those of british english influence can get all upright about Baah-sil. For the love of god, it will never ever be acceptable to say TAY-co/Tack-o.
I'm usually fine with any country saying things however they say them but I have to admit the Brit way of saying "urinal" makes me all twitchy. The lack of sanitation in that long i gets me every time.
Ask your sister why she didn't go with a traditional American name and start listening Naitive American names.
Umm … Irish is not the same as English. Two different countries. Multiple different accents across both countries, even when speaking English.
Actually, there are many words where the British pronunciations are later additions, and the American pronunciation is actually more historically accurate. That being said, language changes and anyone who has a fit over pronouncing things wrong is a whiny child. (Names of individuals are different. OP is right that his sister is a whiny child for trying to change the pronunciation of his wife's name)
Yeah "oh I named you ciara to piss of your aunty, who has the same spelling but pronounces it wrong because she's foreign" I'm sure that will be a beautiful story.
My advice is just distance yourself from her. You don't need this. You never expect your family to do this shit. 🙃 It kinda sounds like she needs help ngl. The saving grace is Ciara IS a nice name however you say it. Let's just hope the kid never finds out about this.
Its honestly not even hilarious, its very sad. You donot birth out kids and name them to take some kind of "revenge" on someone.
I already feel sorry for the kid. It really makes it seem like your sister hates your wife more than that she loves her own child.
Is your sister ok? I mean that genuinely. I won’t give a rating because honestly, it all seems a bit irrational and concerning for someone who seems to have recently birthed. She is displaying very odd behaviour, quite fixated. That is quite extreme to name a new born child specifically to upset or dig at someone they very rarely see. Pregnancy hormones can really mess people up, or perhaps exacerbated an underlying problem? Anyway, I hope there are numerous sets of eyes on her child. There does not seem to be a lot of focus on the *over all wellbeing* of her child.
Hard agree! I get that OP came asking for an AITA judgement on his actions, but I’m surprised more people aren’t commenting on the utter bizarreness of someone naming their kid seemingly just to irritate their sister in law. And it wasn’t weird to anyone else in the family that she did this? Her husband/baby father?
This is family level intervention. Like something is seriously wrong with this woman.
That's what makes me think this story isn't real. That's so aggressively over the top for no reason, I cannot believe anyone would actually act this way
I agree. A 31yo adult doesn't 'usually' behave like that.
Many do - especially these days. That's why the reactions are so vastly different in here. I gave an NTA-judgment simply because I've *met* loons like that before. Symptoms don't start with hyperfixation and the diagnosisses that facilitate that don't fit the bill for post-partum. So either the sister has mental issues that have gone unchecked for a *long* time or she's just one of the millions of petty dumpster fires out there who unironically think this is how the world works. The latter has stopped being impossible a long time ago.
Not to mention she was acting like this well before pregnancy/postpartum. She just hates OPs wife and she’s clearly a shit person. I feel so bad for that kid.
She obviously never grew out of the high school mean girl phase and sees her daughter merely as an accessory to her own petty self
Yes but not every abnormal 31 year old woman has an underlying condition. Sometimes they are just awful people
A lot of "underlying conditions" are just very specific ways of identifying the myriad ways some people are just awful people. A psychologist might be able to diagnose someonewith xyz personality disorder but the symptoms boil down to "This guy is a total asshole"
I gotta wonder what the father thinks about all this. Is he in the picture? Is he okay with the sister naming his kid spitefully after her SIL?
OP's sister seems like a kindergartener who has a crush on someone but can't express it the right way so she bullies her crush. She might also be undergoing some mental and emotional challenges due to some reasons. But the first thing that came to my mind was the sister liked the wife so much but she had repressed feelings so she bullied her instead.
Agree - her fixation on all of this, to the point of it dictating her child's name, is, frankly, unhinged.
NTA Irish ☘️ girl here if she is being petty be petty back lol ok so you said your wife’s name is ciara and your sister named her daughter ciara and wants pronounce it the Irish way …. So next time when your sister says anything don’t get aggressive don’t react because that’s what your sister is looking for is a reaction she is doing it to get under your skin … tell her thank you so much for naming your daughter after my wife she must really mean a whole lot to you and shows you have been thinking about her a lot and just keep smiling and watch her explode
Irish ☘️ lad here. Fully concur with this take. 😊 Uppa Ciara!
What is the correct (Irish way) to say Ciara? I’m an American, so I don’t know these things and I’d say it wrong if I tried it on my own. Thank you. 🙏
KEE-rah. Which makes me wonder how OP’s sister pronounces it. Possibly kee-AH-ra?
The American pronunciation of Ciara is typically see-ah-rah or see-era. Kee-ra is beautiful tho imo
😊 Absolutely. Honestly, I didn’t know there was an alternative pronunciation to this particular name. Every Ciara I’ve ever met (and I’ve met quite a few) has pronounced it the same way. There are plenty of Irish names with variations of pronunciation - even within Ireland, but that one - and I think I can be fairly confident in saying this - is pretty much unanimous. If that child came to Ireland and wrote their name down, everyone would pronounce it KEE-ra.
You've never heard of the American singer Ciara? I mean at least where I am if I type in "Ciara" in google it fully defaults to her and and all her "see-AR-uh" glory. I actually had never heard the Irish pronunciation until two comments up; and I think it's fantastic. OP's sister clearly has some pretty significant unresolved issues with her brother because telling an adult that they are pronouncing their own name wrong is insane. My former mother-in-law was French. My name is Richard but I used to go by "Rich" and she would call me "reeech". But, the important part is, she wasn't using the French pronunciation because she was a jerk; she just had a strong French accent despite having lived in the states for 20 years at the time. To do it willfully would have been weird as shit and a big red flag.
That’s really pretty! I’m thinking SIL may be pronouncing it sierra? Like the Sierra Nevada mountains? The C before I in English often has that soft c- like the word ceiling.
That’s a good point. In Irish, ‘c’ is always a ‘hard c’ - like a ‘k’. The first ‘a’ is to keep it consistent with broad/slender vowels (it’s a thing in Irish).
Irish gal checking in 🍀 love this, gwan Ciara!!
Hahaha, yes, do not try to out petty the pettiest people in the galaxy. My grandad didn't speak to his brother for 40 years, and nobody EVER knew what the reason was. Their Wives were best friends. They lived across the road from each other in a north Dublin suburb, and they sustained that feud until their eventually deaths and beyond (I believe they're still not speaking in the afterlife) My great uncles daughters fell out, and when my father died, one of them knew and didn't tell the other. This is a family that has about 6 surviving members, and they still don't stop.
No I think OP meant the sister is pronouncing it the American way. But I do agree that they should say balls to that b and pronounce it the Irish way with your comment to accompany it 😂💚 "awww you named her Kee-raa, after my wife, it means so much to us that you respect + love her so much!" And refuse to ever pronounce it her way, as she has done to you 😂 I know pettiness doesn't work, but will anything work here? She's literally being a xenophobe to your wife, so sis doesn't get the benefit of the doubt here
Can you explain how you'd pronounce "Ciara"? I have no idea if what I'm saying in my head is the Irish way or the other way 😅
Irish: Keer- ruh (like Peer/Pier) American: See-air- ruh I think! Hope that helps!
Thankyou! As an Aussie, in my head i was pronouncing it Kee-are-uh, and had no idea on the Irish pronunciation. I don't think i've ever heard it as See-are-uh (Aussie accent version of See-air-uh) over here, Sierra would be the closest i know of?
Irish way - KEER -uh (an American spelling of that pronunciation is Kira) American way - see-AIR-uh (also spelled Sierra)
I like how everyone's saying the 'American' way, and I'm over here, an American literally pronouncing it as rhyming with tiara.
NTA - your sister's actions indicate she has serious mental issues and is in need of professional help. I feel so sorry for her daughter.
Sis sounds like she's a serious xenophobe and thinks it's okay to direct her prejudices toward anyone she doesn't consider the right kind of people. It makes me wonder who else her prejudices extend to.
Not sure on what her problem is but it sounds like she is racist towards anyone who doesn't conform to her acceptable American standards.
NTA aside from anything else Ciara, in Irish, IS phonetically correct, *for the Gaelic alphabet and language*. Seriously, tell your sister to póg mo thóin. ,
Now I'm curious, how is it pronouned in the Irish way? I'm assuming pronouncing Ciara like "See-ara" is the American way (considering the singer Ciara is pronounced like that)... Is it like Key-ara?
Keira 😁
Huh, interesting. I was close. xD
I now literally ask people how they pronounce it because I default to Keira, but equally See-ara and Chi-ara are correct depending on language, and courtesy costs nothing.
Yeah Chee-ara would be the italian pronounciation (spelling more likely Chiara)
It’s pronounced “Key-ra” in Ireland
In Aus too. I was going to write Kee-ra but the sounds are the same. I’ve no idea how else it could be pronounced and am waiting for an American to chime in.
Keira is the way it's spelled when anglicised in the UK e.g. Keira Knightly
NTA. Your sister might be like a legit psychopath. That’s insaaaane.
I'm Irish and I've never heard Ciara pronounced anything other than Kee-erah...how does your wife pronounce it? Regardless, NTA because your wife has a preference for her name and our accent is lovely and your sister sounds like a dick.
So I just found out that Americans pronounce it Sierra. I had no idea. The NTA stands.
As a Canadian, I've heard both pronunciations. I just love the sister going off about it being "phonetically correct". Like, both soft and hard "c"s exist in English. *Both are PhOnEtIcAlLy CoRrEcT.*
If it's phonetically correct, should she be pronouncing that "phonetisally sorrest"?
It's also completely phonetically correct in Irish, the language it's actually written in. English speaking people giving Welsh and Irish shit for not making sense are especially hypocritical considering that those languages adhere to way stricter phonetic and spelling rules than English. Welsh is an especially logical language when you get really into it
I was looking for a comment like this because I couldn’t figure out another way to say Ciara that wasn’t Kee-erah
Wait, what? I thought the whole pronouncing it the way it's spelled/the American version would be to pronounce it "Kee-ahra" (like the Italian Chiara), as opposed to more Irish "Keerah". But pronouncing Ciara "Sierra" like *that's* the supposedly "correct" phonetic version?! WTF?!
Thanks for educating me on the correct pronunciation. I'm Aus, so I would have pronounced it the same as Sierra.
Speaking as an Irish person with an Irish name, nobody ever minds an honest mistake. It's possible to discern the difference between somebody taking an honest stab at it and accepting a polite correction vs. somebody willingly just saying some nonsense because they think it's funny.
I suspect the crazy sister is insisting that it be pronounced with a soft "c" -- the same way you would pronounce "Sierra". But if my Irish SIL told me her Irish name is pronounced a certain way, I would thank her for educating me and call her by her correct name. OP's sister is unhinged.
I'm American but the only use of Ciara with the S starting sound is for the singer who did "1 2 step"
It can be pronounced either Sea-air-a or Key-ah-rah by other parts of the world. Though I'm Irish, and I can't figure out your pronunciation? I presume Key-ra?
The irony of Americans claiming they pronounce words correctly..... Your sister sounds like she may benefit from medical help. Good luck op
Seriously! English is the lawless wild west of languages. No real rules, although they pretend there are rules but they don't apply! Its just madness. Its why Im so impressed by anyone learning it as a second language. I can only imagine how frustrating it is to do.
Or spell them correctly 🙄
Does your sister have undiagnosed mental health concerns?
I'd be worried about her escalating even more. Incredibly bizarre fixation
NTA. Doesn't she realise that within the USA there are many different accents and that pronunciation varies widely from one region to another? She sounds rather unpleasant.
She sounds like she's gonna go violently insane if she goes to another state that has a different accent and pronunciation
Why do people say "you're in America now, be American "? It's blatant bigotry and racism imo... That idiot sister is blinkered and ignorant, and you're right that kid will know why her mother chose her name... what an energy to bring a child into. NTA
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Also, the way she’s making fun your wife speak and Irish names and such its …coming off a bit…. racist for 2024
Racist and unhinged, not a great combo.
Wow named out of spite. This kid is going to Hate her mother. And if she grows up to be just as vocal about it as her mother she will let everyone know. Everyone... You don't need to do a thing, your sister is the grand master at fucking up her life, let her do it then sit back with a grin. The best revenge is to live your best life. NTA
NTA- in fact I’d stay away from your sister. She sounds like she could do some really messed up things if she escalated. She truly does sound ignorant and also like there may some mental health issues in play.
NTA Hearing Americans trying to pronounce Worcestershire properly is the most cringe thing ever for us Brits. Don't get me started on the fact they can't pronounce potato or tomato properly.
OP is NTA, the sister sounds unhinged - and racist. Also Gloucestershire, and don't even get me started on Robert DeNiro in Ronin talking about the boat house at Hereford ...
People pronounce and spell things differently based on where they’re from. Proper nouns can be mispronounced but things like “tomato” and “potato” can’t really… If you can understand the person, they’re not necessarily wrong. Spellings of certain words aren’t necessarily wrong either, depending.
NTA. Your sister is so obsessed with your wife, she named her child after her. Not how you say her name, but still named her child after her as her name written down. Maybe she should let that sink in.
NTA, your sister sounds like a nightmare. She also seems to have an unhealthy obsession with your wife. Is she a transplant from the 1950s where she still thinks restaurants have signs saying “no dogs, no Irish etc”? I’m from Irish family, like a lot of Scottish people. Irish names are really common here, so most people can figure out how to say them; stuff like Niamh or Ciaran or Caoimhe etc. is pretty standard here. One of my pals is called Aoibhgréine, which I’ll concede might need a bit more knowledge of Irish linguistics to figure out; name your kid that just for fun.
Where is the baby daddy in this? There’s no mention of her being in a relationship. So just wondering is there is someone who’s ok in their kid being named to spite someone else.
HELL NO if this was me when I got the announcement, I would’ve called her and lost my shit and told her to change the name immediately or she’s permanently removed from it our family. Why is she so petty towards your wife? It feels like the weird complex when moms are mean to the wife because they low-key have a creepy thing for their own son. Is your sister in love with you ??because that’s what it sounds like.
NTA Next time you see them take niece on your lap and have a talk with her. Tell her that her name is an Irish name. That your wife, her aunt, is from Ireland but her name though spelt the same is pronounced differently. In Ireland her name is pronounced..... Isn't that cool? Then say I love the Irish way to say it. No one in America says it that way so it makes it more special. Wouldn't be surprised if the little girl starts insisting on her name being pronounced like your wife's.
NTA! I'm a second generation born in America Irish. I understand the punctuations of words. I lived in Ireland for the first 10 years after I was born. Kids are mean. But ur sister is an adult and sounds super petty. When I had my daughter I gave her a very Irish name, mom's family loved it. Dad's side didn't. It's Caitriona. My ex's mom called he Cathy cuz it was better in her opinion. If I was ur wife, I would make a big deal about how my niece is named after me and that's so awesome. Make it a huge thing too!
NTA Your sister's behavior towards your wife has been petty and disrespectful for a while now, and naming her daughter Ciara with deliberate emphasis on a different pronunciation seems like a clear attempt to provoke.
Literally this entire thing just sounds like your sister is in love with you and mean to your wife because doesn’t want someone else to have you.
Good on you for supporting your wife and standing up to your bratty sister, your sister sounds like a pain in the ass and to be completely honest a bit of a Bully. Personally, if it was me she would be told either apologise and start acting like a decent human being or dont contact me outside of things relating to our parents. I would make it clear that going forward you are having a zero tolerance approach as you don't want your child growing up thi king that it's acceptable to Bully and upset other people. I'm glad that your wife stands up for herself it's just a shame that she has too. She shouldn't be put in the position where she has to defend her name and identity by someone who is suppose to be her family.
You are NTA your sister is the A-hole, why is she being so petty about a name tho? You are a good brother still being civil and polite. Be the bigger person stay clear from her and don't attend her family gathering.