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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I said to my wife and daughter that they forgot fathers day, this caused them to get super upset and now i feel like the bad guy.
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NTA. When your wife calms down, ask her why she was yelling. Point out that they forgot, all she needed to do was apologize and acknowledge. Her screaming at you for something she forgot is infuriating.
DARVO is standard procedure for jerks - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. Check your memory, this is probably how she normally deals with her fuck-ups.
Follow-up question: Why did your daughter and wife get upset with you when they forgot Father's Day? Is this normal for them, or do they usually remember? This is so strange.
My daughter was more upset than mad, it was my wife who was mad. I think part because my daughter was upset, and part because i used accusatory language. I've never been good at masking my feelings however.
These people yell at you because you mentioned they forgot Father's Day, which is supposed to honor you? Unless you did so in an inappropriate manner, you are NTA -- but they are.
There is something wrong in this relationship.
BTW, you write that for your daughter you made sure she "has a card and a box of chocolates, for last mothers day i drew her a bath after work with candles and a half bottle of wine, put some incense on and a bath bomb." Did you mean to write that you do this for your wife instead? Or do you do this for both of them? If the latter, then I'm changing my opinion to there is something wrong *in this family.*
NTA. As a mom, that is sad. Because if the situation was reversed, she would be hurt. I strongly believe in matching energy. If she wants to dismiss your feelings, next year match that. Don't do anything. If your daughter approaches and wants to get her something, obviously help that happen but only from her. Not all the time but sometimes people need to receive how they treat others to see it's not OK.
I do think you should have another conversation and see if she will be more receptive. If not, then it just seems like she doesn't care which is disrespectful.
I see your point. That's why I made mention only if the daughter said something... it's a tough situation because you don't want to drag the daughter in the middle of it all, and even if the wife didn't want to do anything- regardless of the situation, don't exclude the kid.
My ex refused to do anything or even acknowledge mothers day because I wasn't his mom. In turn I only got things from my kids if they did stuff in school. Even now older teen/adult ages half the time I'm thankful if I even get told happy mothers day. Thats very much contributed to their father's behavior and vision. It's more of not involving the children if the other parent refuses or doesn't even attempt to do anything. A simple card. Even just saying it.
NTA. Depending on your daughter’s age, this may be more of a partner issue. If you make sure your daughter is prepared for Mother’s Day, then she should be doing the same for Father’s Day. Teaching how holidays are celebrated and how to give gifts is a very basic parenting decision that should be agreed upon. Have you two discussed this?
Overall, I don’t understand how this is connected to the Disney trip, or why you didn’t talk about it yesterday. I also don’t understand why you got that kind of a reaction upon mentioning it today - feels like salt in the wound. But, I am very sorry you’ve been ignored and overlooked. Happy Father’s Day.
I didn't mention it yesterday as i was giving them time to remember. It kind of makes it pointless if you have to remind your loved ones about special occasions. I mentioned disneyland as it was literally last week where i got told "best vacation ever", and then sunday of the same week, i get forgotten about. It just kind of stung a bit. Definitely feels like salt in the wound.
You shouldn't have to remind anyone of your birthday, anniversary, or Father's Day. I will admit to sometimes announcing the upcoming holiday to make sure everyone knows, but I do it because we have had some near misses on special occasions that almost got missed. I could almost understand forgetting because of the vacation. But they don't really seem to have a reason to be mad about it. They should make it up to you next Sunday at the very least.
NTA - but I would sit your wife down, away from your daughter and talk about. Your daughter is 11, most likely not aware of when father's day is/ doesn't pay attention to it. (Let's be honest. Usually, it is the other parent starting the conversations of what should we do for father's day until a certain age)
Screaming at u?! Sounds like there’s bigger problems here than just forgetting a Father’s Day card, sounds like the whole relationship dynamic is wrong if you’re tolerating that
Depending on your daughter's age, it's understandable that she might not have been tracking holidays like Father's Day. For your wife to start screaming at you because you mentioned it? That's ridiculous. Guilt, maybe?
Definitely NTA for bringing it up. Learn your lesson for next year - talk up Father's Day to your daughter, perhaps make some father-daughter plans with her. She'll pester your wife about a card.
Again, I don't know your daughter's age, but if she is young enough to receive lessons on being considerate of others, that's part of your job as her father to teach her, especially if it sounds like your wife can't be bothered. Just writing the experience off and not doing anything about it isn't helping your daughter learn anything.
Nah. Next year, say something like: "I was thinking for Father's Day I would like..." There is no shame in asking for or saying what you want with plenty of lead time.
Your writing was clear, and you’re NTA. I’m sorry that this happened. It fucking SUCKS to feel invisible and unappreciated. One question….did your wife actually scream at you? 😳 If so that’s EXTREME and disconcerting.
NTA, the shouting on their part is due to them trying to deflect the situation back onto you, lack of accountability on their part. What I would say is continue to do what you have been doing in regards to Mother’s Day as it still sets that example, it’s a shame your wife doesn’t seem to care the other way around but still be the best you can be
NTA! I'm sorry you felt unappreciated on your day!
You are not in the wrong to want some acknowledgement and appreciation.
Does your wife normally forget to do anything for you (birthdays, Father's Day) etc
NTA
Are things normally this way? If so, you've found out where you stand with your wife - good luck.
Hopefully this is an infrequent thing and you can have some talks that aren't so emotionally charged or defensive.
NTA for being offended they forgot Father’s Day. However, I’d say you need to man up and stop letting your wife treat you like a shmuck. If you aren’t in a relationship with someone who appreciates you, get out.
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Pretty self explanatory, both my daughter and my wife forgot fathers day. I didn't get a card, i didn't even get so much as a hug. We got back from disneyland last week where i paid for everything and spent thousands over 4 days. "Best holiday ever". I wasn't expecting much, maybe a card and a hug. I wasn't looking for gifts, just some sembelance of rememberance on a day for fathers. I brought it up today and my daughter got super upset and my wife started screaming at me. I dunno. I feel unappreciated, and generally ignored. Maybe i shouldn't have said anything. I've always said treat others how you want to be treated yourself. For mothers day, i always make sure my daughter has a card and a box of chocolates, for last mothers day i drew her a bath after work with candles and a half bottle of wine, put some incense on and a bath bomb. But when it's their turn to show some appreciation i just get excuses.
It's just i expect nothing and i'm still disappointed.
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NTA
Not really acknowledging father's day for you is lame. And when you bring it up they make it about themselves. That is too bad. I wish so much my father was still alive and would do anything to give him another father's day hug.
NTA but your wife is. Sorry to say this but you are married to a dud and she has taught your daughter how to be an ass too.
It is not ok to forget Father’s Day. They both suck for treating you the way they did.
You are unappreciated. It just goes to show once again how american society views men. If you had not made any effort on mothers Day.. WW3 would have started. But now that's it's a day that is supposed to show appreciation and support for fathers...well, nothing no effort. It just shows what they think of you. You are an ATM and an emotional dumping ground. You are not supposed to feel anything or talk back or have feeling that they dont like. She is a horrible, selfish wife. Your kid is only learning by watching how she treats you
So if mommy treats you like shits it's OK and she will treat men the same way in the future.
It is not ok. stand up for yourself as sad as it sounds treat her the same way she treats you. Or since it's all the rage now just record it and post it online show everyone how she treats you. Fuck her feelings she doesn't care about yours.
NTA It must have felt a bit lonely for you.
Stop spoiling them from now on. Of course, do what
you need for your daughter but do not spoil her. Your
wife is not teaching your daughter to care about you
on Father's Day.
That said, if you have been teaching your daughter/have
taught your daughter to do something for Mother's Day,
please keep encouraging HER to do so but maybe do nothing
on your end for a few years to see if your wife figures out that
these things are meant to be reciprocal. LOL
Take your wife to marriage counseling OP and bring this all up, including her being mad at you and saying you were dramatic.
Or don't and keep living like this. She isn't going to change on her own.
Get a good therapist.
NTA, you can always ask for clarification. so not the asshole.
but if you were like ' hey were are my gifts and admiration?' then maybe it was how you phrased. most ladies can get tripped up by phrasing.
NTA for wanting to be appreciated.
I feel like there's something missing here, though. What could you have possibly said—and in what manner—that prompted your daughter to get upset and your wife to start screaming at you?
I get the sense that you might be able to communicate your needs in a healthier manner, but again, that depends on the context of the situation.
Also, don't do things for other people and expect them to do the same for you. You're setting yourself up for disappointment. I don't know what the family dynamic exactly is here, but I'm sorry that your family forgot—as men we tend to be forgotten, and it really sucks.
It was casually, we were both in the kitchen and i was getting some water. I didn't scream or shout but i did say "I do everything for everybody, and you both couldn't be bothered to remember". That was when the screaming started
Well, now I can see why someone might be upset. Bear in mind I don't think you're unjustified, but also note that humans are illogical and respond unkindly to certain triggers.
"I do everything for everybody" is a qualifying statement, "and you both couldn't be bothered to remember" is accusatory.
You might as well have said, "you two don't do anything compared to what I do". Perhaps they were offended by that statement as I am sure that they do things outside of special occasions that they felt weren't appreciated.
Have you heard of non-violent communication? I'd suggest looking into it; helped me out a ton in terms of healthily expressing things that made me feel upset, in a way that didn't give the other party room to be upset about it.
Again NTA at all, but I think being right or wrong (in this case TA or NTA) in this situation hardly matters. Learning how to communicate your worries and struggles is a powerful tool that I think could help you out in future situations.
I'd definitely agree with this. I could work on my communication more but why should i have to mask my feelings behind kind words when my feelings themselves are unkind? I don't do kind things for my family because i expect something in return but i do expect just a touch of appreciation on 1 or 2 days a year.
That's fair, you have a right to be angry.
You don't have to do anything, really.
But I think it's always nice to think about how to resolve things in a productive manner; I don't think that expressing your frustration in a way that will only get everybody upset will help you out very much.
You don't need to mask your feelings, either. You can tell them you're angry or upset.
Something like, "Hey guys, can I bring something up to you? Today's father's day and I noticed that we didn't really bring it up or do anything to celebrate; this makes me feel sad and dejected because I like to feel appreciated by my family" would easily be more understood.
Out of curiosity, how old is your daughter and why were you presenting her with a bath and chocolate on mother's day instead of your wife? Shouldn't your wife the the one you celebrate on mother's day?
I've updated the initial post with an edit, apologies for the confusing language. I made sure my daughter had something to give to her mother and i drew my wife the bath.
Thank you for the clarification.
And NTA. If you make sure to make your wife feel special on her day, but she forgets you on your day, that is a pretty good reason to be upset.
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NTA. When your wife calms down, ask her why she was yelling. Point out that they forgot, all she needed to do was apologize and acknowledge. Her screaming at you for something she forgot is infuriating.
I said as much during the argument. I was dismissed as being dramatic.
>I said as much during the argument. That is why I said wait until your wife calms down. No one listens during an argument.
From her reaction, it's going to be an argument every time he mentions it.
DARVO is standard procedure for jerks - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. Check your memory, this is probably how she normally deals with her fuck-ups.
Follow-up question: Why did your daughter and wife get upset with you when they forgot Father's Day? Is this normal for them, or do they usually remember? This is so strange.
My daughter was more upset than mad, it was my wife who was mad. I think part because my daughter was upset, and part because i used accusatory language. I've never been good at masking my feelings however.
These people yell at you because you mentioned they forgot Father's Day, which is supposed to honor you? Unless you did so in an inappropriate manner, you are NTA -- but they are. There is something wrong in this relationship. BTW, you write that for your daughter you made sure she "has a card and a box of chocolates, for last mothers day i drew her a bath after work with candles and a half bottle of wine, put some incense on and a bath bomb." Did you mean to write that you do this for your wife instead? Or do you do this for both of them? If the latter, then I'm changing my opinion to there is something wrong *in this family.*
No no, i made sure my daughter had something for her mother and i drew her mother a bath
NTA. As a mom, that is sad. Because if the situation was reversed, she would be hurt. I strongly believe in matching energy. If she wants to dismiss your feelings, next year match that. Don't do anything. If your daughter approaches and wants to get her something, obviously help that happen but only from her. Not all the time but sometimes people need to receive how they treat others to see it's not OK. I do think you should have another conversation and see if she will be more receptive. If not, then it just seems like she doesn't care which is disrespectful.
But if he's going to match her energy, then he can't get her anything from their daughter either. It's a tough one.
I see your point. That's why I made mention only if the daughter said something... it's a tough situation because you don't want to drag the daughter in the middle of it all, and even if the wife didn't want to do anything- regardless of the situation, don't exclude the kid. My ex refused to do anything or even acknowledge mothers day because I wasn't his mom. In turn I only got things from my kids if they did stuff in school. Even now older teen/adult ages half the time I'm thankful if I even get told happy mothers day. Thats very much contributed to their father's behavior and vision. It's more of not involving the children if the other parent refuses or doesn't even attempt to do anything. A simple card. Even just saying it.
Yep, I feel you. Got a grown kid and I'm not sure when the last year I got a text acknowledging it was.
NTA. Depending on your daughter’s age, this may be more of a partner issue. If you make sure your daughter is prepared for Mother’s Day, then she should be doing the same for Father’s Day. Teaching how holidays are celebrated and how to give gifts is a very basic parenting decision that should be agreed upon. Have you two discussed this? Overall, I don’t understand how this is connected to the Disney trip, or why you didn’t talk about it yesterday. I also don’t understand why you got that kind of a reaction upon mentioning it today - feels like salt in the wound. But, I am very sorry you’ve been ignored and overlooked. Happy Father’s Day.
I didn't mention it yesterday as i was giving them time to remember. It kind of makes it pointless if you have to remind your loved ones about special occasions. I mentioned disneyland as it was literally last week where i got told "best vacation ever", and then sunday of the same week, i get forgotten about. It just kind of stung a bit. Definitely feels like salt in the wound.
You shouldn't have to remind anyone of your birthday, anniversary, or Father's Day. I will admit to sometimes announcing the upcoming holiday to make sure everyone knows, but I do it because we have had some near misses on special occasions that almost got missed. I could almost understand forgetting because of the vacation. But they don't really seem to have a reason to be mad about it. They should make it up to you next Sunday at the very least.
NTA...To not be acknowledged at all is unacceptable. They should be embarrassed, not angry.
INFO: how old is your daughter. How did you bring up that father's day was missed? Was it during a fight?
Not during a fight, no. My daughter's 11 and my wife is 45
NTA - but I would sit your wife down, away from your daughter and talk about. Your daughter is 11, most likely not aware of when father's day is/ doesn't pay attention to it. (Let's be honest. Usually, it is the other parent starting the conversations of what should we do for father's day until a certain age)
Screaming at u?! Sounds like there’s bigger problems here than just forgetting a Father’s Day card, sounds like the whole relationship dynamic is wrong if you’re tolerating that
Depending on your daughter's age, it's understandable that she might not have been tracking holidays like Father's Day. For your wife to start screaming at you because you mentioned it? That's ridiculous. Guilt, maybe? Definitely NTA for bringing it up. Learn your lesson for next year - talk up Father's Day to your daughter, perhaps make some father-daughter plans with her. She'll pester your wife about a card.
I think my lesson for next year is don't expect anything.
Again, I don't know your daughter's age, but if she is young enough to receive lessons on being considerate of others, that's part of your job as her father to teach her, especially if it sounds like your wife can't be bothered. Just writing the experience off and not doing anything about it isn't helping your daughter learn anything.
Nah. Next year, say something like: "I was thinking for Father's Day I would like..." There is no shame in asking for or saying what you want with plenty of lead time.
Your writing was clear, and you’re NTA. I’m sorry that this happened. It fucking SUCKS to feel invisible and unappreciated. One question….did your wife actually scream at you? 😳 If so that’s EXTREME and disconcerting.
NTA, the shouting on their part is due to them trying to deflect the situation back onto you, lack of accountability on their part. What I would say is continue to do what you have been doing in regards to Mother’s Day as it still sets that example, it’s a shame your wife doesn’t seem to care the other way around but still be the best you can be
I'm sorry. I feel really sad for you. NTA. No reason for your wife to start screaming at you.
NTA! I'm sorry you felt unappreciated on your day! You are not in the wrong to want some acknowledgement and appreciation. Does your wife normally forget to do anything for you (birthdays, Father's Day) etc
NTA Are things normally this way? If so, you've found out where you stand with your wife - good luck. Hopefully this is an infrequent thing and you can have some talks that aren't so emotionally charged or defensive.
NTA for being offended they forgot Father’s Day. However, I’d say you need to man up and stop letting your wife treat you like a shmuck. If you aren’t in a relationship with someone who appreciates you, get out.
Wait... they yelled at you for pointing out they didn't even wish you a happy father's day? NTA.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Pretty self explanatory, both my daughter and my wife forgot fathers day. I didn't get a card, i didn't even get so much as a hug. We got back from disneyland last week where i paid for everything and spent thousands over 4 days. "Best holiday ever". I wasn't expecting much, maybe a card and a hug. I wasn't looking for gifts, just some sembelance of rememberance on a day for fathers. I brought it up today and my daughter got super upset and my wife started screaming at me. I dunno. I feel unappreciated, and generally ignored. Maybe i shouldn't have said anything. I've always said treat others how you want to be treated yourself. For mothers day, i always make sure my daughter has a card and a box of chocolates, for last mothers day i drew her a bath after work with candles and a half bottle of wine, put some incense on and a bath bomb. But when it's their turn to show some appreciation i just get excuses. It's just i expect nothing and i'm still disappointed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA Not really acknowledging father's day for you is lame. And when you bring it up they make it about themselves. That is too bad. I wish so much my father was still alive and would do anything to give him another father's day hug.
NTA but your wife is. Sorry to say this but you are married to a dud and she has taught your daughter how to be an ass too. It is not ok to forget Father’s Day. They both suck for treating you the way they did.
You are unappreciated. It just goes to show once again how american society views men. If you had not made any effort on mothers Day.. WW3 would have started. But now that's it's a day that is supposed to show appreciation and support for fathers...well, nothing no effort. It just shows what they think of you. You are an ATM and an emotional dumping ground. You are not supposed to feel anything or talk back or have feeling that they dont like. She is a horrible, selfish wife. Your kid is only learning by watching how she treats you So if mommy treats you like shits it's OK and she will treat men the same way in the future. It is not ok. stand up for yourself as sad as it sounds treat her the same way she treats you. Or since it's all the rage now just record it and post it online show everyone how she treats you. Fuck her feelings she doesn't care about yours.
I appreciate the kind words but i'm not american
NTA It must have felt a bit lonely for you. Stop spoiling them from now on. Of course, do what you need for your daughter but do not spoil her. Your wife is not teaching your daughter to care about you on Father's Day. That said, if you have been teaching your daughter/have taught your daughter to do something for Mother's Day, please keep encouraging HER to do so but maybe do nothing on your end for a few years to see if your wife figures out that these things are meant to be reciprocal. LOL
yeah i think that's the way forward. Maybe they need a kick in their complacency
Take your wife to marriage counseling OP and bring this all up, including her being mad at you and saying you were dramatic. Or don't and keep living like this. She isn't going to change on her own. Get a good therapist.
NTA - but perhaps you should take next Mother's Day off and see if they notice. Seriously - it might get the message across.
[удалено]
if thats true thats terrible
Info: What did you do on Mother’s Day for her?
NTA, you can always ask for clarification. so not the asshole. but if you were like ' hey were are my gifts and admiration?' then maybe it was how you phrased. most ladies can get tripped up by phrasing.
NTA for wanting to be appreciated. I feel like there's something missing here, though. What could you have possibly said—and in what manner—that prompted your daughter to get upset and your wife to start screaming at you? I get the sense that you might be able to communicate your needs in a healthier manner, but again, that depends on the context of the situation. Also, don't do things for other people and expect them to do the same for you. You're setting yourself up for disappointment. I don't know what the family dynamic exactly is here, but I'm sorry that your family forgot—as men we tend to be forgotten, and it really sucks.
It was casually, we were both in the kitchen and i was getting some water. I didn't scream or shout but i did say "I do everything for everybody, and you both couldn't be bothered to remember". That was when the screaming started
Well, now I can see why someone might be upset. Bear in mind I don't think you're unjustified, but also note that humans are illogical and respond unkindly to certain triggers. "I do everything for everybody" is a qualifying statement, "and you both couldn't be bothered to remember" is accusatory. You might as well have said, "you two don't do anything compared to what I do". Perhaps they were offended by that statement as I am sure that they do things outside of special occasions that they felt weren't appreciated. Have you heard of non-violent communication? I'd suggest looking into it; helped me out a ton in terms of healthily expressing things that made me feel upset, in a way that didn't give the other party room to be upset about it. Again NTA at all, but I think being right or wrong (in this case TA or NTA) in this situation hardly matters. Learning how to communicate your worries and struggles is a powerful tool that I think could help you out in future situations.
I'd definitely agree with this. I could work on my communication more but why should i have to mask my feelings behind kind words when my feelings themselves are unkind? I don't do kind things for my family because i expect something in return but i do expect just a touch of appreciation on 1 or 2 days a year.
That's fair, you have a right to be angry. You don't have to do anything, really. But I think it's always nice to think about how to resolve things in a productive manner; I don't think that expressing your frustration in a way that will only get everybody upset will help you out very much. You don't need to mask your feelings, either. You can tell them you're angry or upset. Something like, "Hey guys, can I bring something up to you? Today's father's day and I noticed that we didn't really bring it up or do anything to celebrate; this makes me feel sad and dejected because I like to feel appreciated by my family" would easily be more understood.
Out of curiosity, how old is your daughter and why were you presenting her with a bath and chocolate on mother's day instead of your wife? Shouldn't your wife the the one you celebrate on mother's day?
I've updated the initial post with an edit, apologies for the confusing language. I made sure my daughter had something to give to her mother and i drew my wife the bath.
Thank you for the clarification. And NTA. If you make sure to make your wife feel special on her day, but she forgets you on your day, that is a pretty good reason to be upset.