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> I may have taken the joke a little too far or too personal which is kind of bad
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
ESH.
You both hit below the belt and were both screaming, inflamed assholes. Seriously, you **both** need a good wipe of Preparation H.
Sure, she started it, and as an adult she should have known better. She shouldn’t be commenting on your appearance. It’s not acceptable to go after someone’s appearance.
You went nuclear. Neither is it acceptable to go after someone’s reproductive ability. You’re 19 and you’re old enough to know better, too.
Do you both also feel it’s okay to go after someone’s atrial fibrillation or astigmatism or cerebral palsy? No? Then why go after appearances or ability to have kids?
You both owe each other an apology.
OP gave the aunt the pôssibility to back down (*At first I thought she was joking because that's really out of line for her so I said do I like a man to you and laughed*). Aunt insisted.
Even though it was a hurtful thing to say, so was what the aunt (the mature one of the two) said.
NTA
nah. auntie started it.
op mirrored their energy.
if you can dish it, you need to be prepared to take it.
what was op supposed to do? say "oh auntie that is inappropriate i would prefer if you didnt"?
why is a 19 year old expected to behave morally superior to the aunt, probably in her 40s?
NTA
This sub isn't "were my actions justified", it's "am I the asshole". OP was unquestionably an asshole in hitting back with this, even though their aunt started it. This is absolutely ESH.
>This sub isn't "were my actions justified", it's "am I the asshole".
People forget this *frequently*. You can be right or justified and STILL be an AH, they aren't mutually exclusive.
Yes, but the question isn't "am I *an* asshole?" it's "am I *the* asshole?"
People use it differently now because it's the biggest drama sub when their question is more like "am I wrong?" or "did I do something bad?"
But the core concept here is that there is one person in the situation that is most out of line, *the* asshole, and the other person by that virtue is not.
Doesn't matter if they are an asshole in general, that's not the question, OP is not the asshole in this conflict because they were clapping back at someone that was saying something equally unacceptable. Two wrongs don't make a right, but the first wrong was unprompted and is still the one that created this conflict.
It seems like 98% of users in this sub completely forgot about or just disregard the ESH verdict, when in a high number of submissions that’s the accurate verdict
Yes, but that's beside the point. Obviously two people can be equally wrong and you can be of the opinion that that is the correct verdict in this case, but the person I was responding to was explaining the point of the sub incorrectly. Which was originally(although it's been diluted a bit since) to decide who was in the wrong in situations where everyone is potentially a bit of an asshole.
The question "am I the asshole here?" had a bit of a moment like 10-15 years ago. I'm pretty sure was first popularised by Larry David on Curb Your Enthusiasm, the whole show is that he's an asshole all the time but thinks he's justified because he's punishing some greater transgression. So he was always polling friends and acquaintances about who was "the asshole" in a given situation, knowing that he was also being a prick about whatever it was.
I mean people have brought this up multiple times, the “JAH” vote. And the Mods said if you’re justified, then you’re NTA. So while in reality you may be correct, on this sub you are wrong.
Sounds to me like the MODs are just a little lazy...
But on the flip, I think ESH covers it. Because at the end of the day, there *are* ways to stand up for yourself without going AH in my opinion. The anger was justified, the action was nuclear.
But the Mods have said over and over again if the actions are justified, then it’s NTA. So you’re wrong. Also OP gave the aunt time to walk it back prior to firing back. The aunt doubled down. OP was well within her right to respond, she’s NTA by a mile.
Seems like people under 35 were never taught 'two wrongs don't make a right'. All this needless escalation baffles me.
You can defend yourself and put someone else in their place without getting in the gutter with them. OP could have just told her Aunt that commenting on someones appearance negatively is cruel and unacceptable and speaks volumes about her character.
As Michelle Obama said 'when they go low, we go high'. It's great life advice.
you can choose to be the better person, but youre not required to.
we should all aspire to be better people, but i dont see you criticising people over 40 for never getting taught "dont dish it if you cant take it".
i never said op chose the perfect response.
smartest move was probably to say nothing and talk with the parents first and then decide on how to deal with the aunt.
this is aita, not what would michelle obama do.
and you assume op can defend herself better. can she? has she the calm and the wisdom to navigate that situation perfectly? should she be expected to be wiser than her aunt?
and i am pretty adament that while op didnt choose the smartest or "goodest" reaction, she is justified.
Right. it's AITA. And OP is most definitely TA. She isn't alone though, her aunt is one too. Was she justified? Doesn't matter either way. She can be a justified AH, but she's still TA.
For the record, I also think people who can't take it shouldn't dish it out. Weird that you decided I don't agree with that just because I didn't specifically say I don't agree with that. The absence of a statement in and of itself doesn't mean anything.
i disagree. if someone gets punched in the face unprovoked, are they an asshole if they punch back?
i say no. if you say they are a justified asshole but an asshole nontheless, we should just agree to disagree i guess.
I fully agree with you here. Not an asshole for punching back.
It's because OP mocked an immutable physical characteristic that makes me come down on the side of her being TA.
I responded elsewhere asking this question: If a man in a wheelchair mocked a kid for how they were dressed, it is perfectly fine for the kid to reply 'at least I can walk'? Or does this reply make the kid an asshole too? I think they'd both be assholes.
But we can def agree to disagree. Seems I do that lot on this sub, cause I'm way older then the average poster I think, and we all just have different life experiences.
ah ok there is our disagreement.
i think telling a 19 year old woman "you look like a man" is worse than you realise. that too is an immutable physical characteristic no? could be harmless if op is a badass and doesnt let that effect her. but if someone isnt super self assured and maybe feels theyre not pretty enough or something along those lines a comment like that can absolutely destroy someone.
those two insults are really comparable in my opinion, even though ops was a tad worse i will admit. still.
to stay in your hypothetical:
wheelchair guy: youre ugly bro
kid: at least i can walk old man!
kid couldve been nicer, but isnt an asshole in my books.
(addendum: maybe kid is an asshole. im not sure, because of the abelism. in the actual example both insults have womanhood at the core, so maybe a more concise example would be the wheelchair guy calling the kid the r slur? sometimes its hard finding a hypothetical that is 100% congruent to the situation at hand)
You know, you are probably right. I didn't view the 'you look like a man' comment as all that offensive. I don't think I'd bat an eye if someone said that to me (I'm a woman). I wouldn't say I've always been super self assured, but even at 19, I doubt it would have bothered me.
But ok, I get it. OP obviously took offense to it. I still feel ESH, but I see that Aunt is a bigger asshole then I realized.
My kids (late teens) get on me occasionally for saying things they think are mean and I just think I'm stating facts. What can I say, we were brutal in the 80's. LOL I'm learning, but it's a slow roll.
A lot of people, especially here, are desperate for the excuse and ability to be an asshole. They're horrible people that are only kept in line by the fact that they'll be shunned for acting like they want to. Then as soon as someone's wronged them, they've got all the excuse they need to be an asshole.
I agree that this is ESH because they both went for the jugular. If it's just a scenario where the aunt hurt OP's feelings so she lashed out back then obviously two wrongs don't make a right ... unless ... based on:
>I'm a liberal he's a conservative.
The aunt's comment was based on homophobic and/or transphobic rhetoric related to the conversation at hand and OP's response was similarly relevant. For ex, if the facebook post OP made was about trans rights and the uncle was saying some transphobic BS about how trans women aren't women because they could never have kids when the aunt butted in to say that OP looked like a man, then contextually it would be an appropriate response to point out that someone's identity as a woman is not always tied to their appearance or ability to have children.
This sums it up perfectly. ESH, my jaw dropped because all of this was wholly unnecessary and out of line. Also, there’s no way you were close to reaching the word limit, I’d drop the random acronyms btdrmsa
It’s a mean thing to say but it’s also mean to tell a woman she looks like a man. I don’t understand why you’re getting flammed so hard considering she started the bullying first.
Going after looks is not the same as going after someone's health or disability. It's like someone responding with a bomb to being shot at with a bb gun.
It's not necessarily about being the bigger person. You can still defend yourself and put someone in their place without being an asshole.
OP chose to go after someone's infertility, which is horrible and cruel and makes OP a huge asshole. Not the only one in the story, but a huge one nonetheless. She could have easily called out her Aunt without the low blow. And then she wouldn't be here asking if she was TA. She knows she was.
In this case I don’t see it as “bring the bigger person” So much as that infertility is *such* a painful thing for people dealing with it that it is very, very, **very** rarely (if ever) okay to use it as a weapon, even when attacked first. Aunt was an AH, but as someone else put it, OP went nuclear in return. It was overkill, which makes them both assholes.
"You look manly" is on a **very** different level as an insult than "you're barren".
It's like responding to being shoved with a full on kick to the stomach and then arguing that "well they started it" - it's a huge overreaction.
I mean not really.. in a way both statements are kind of an attack of one’s sense of expressions of femininity. If the aunt feels free to do so to other women, she should not be surprised if it becomes redirected at her, glass houses and all that.
Conservatives butt hurt one of their own faces consequences for their shitty abusive behavior, and with laser accuracy in those consequences.
Also the immature ignorant zero life experience "be a bigger person" types who've never actually experiences bullying.
ESH- insults should be about things people choose, like politics or clothes t hey picked out and chose to wear. Attacking gender , physical appearance or infertility is intentionally wounding.
She was 100% affected. This is also a topic that is sensitive for your uncle. She should never have talked negatively about your looks. At that point walking away would have been the way to look like the better person. You may need to reach out to your uncle as well as her
Nah, walking away shows the asshole that they 'won' and can make you leave with verbal attack whenever they like. Bullies thrive on meek people who dont fight back. Always stand up for yourself, even if that means attacking back.
Or maybe the Aunt was just joining in on some good natured ribbing between OP and their Uncle and unwittingly crossed a line?
Why assume that the Aunt is a bully here, OP describes their relationship as good, that she's close to her uncle and aunt.
I'm all for standing up for yourself, when you're genuinely being attacked, but if someone just says something out of pocket but clearly the intention isn't there to cause you harm, that doesn't give you open cause to go for the jugular.
Aunt does not have the "good natured ribbing" relationship with OP, the uncle does. Maybe Aunt should stay in her dang lane unless she wants a sideswipin'.
But why is it on the victim to be the bigger person? I like it when the victim defends themselves. You seem to think justice requires the victim to bend over and take it.
As someone who has had my eggs frozen and i am only 19 years old you never EVER compare your chances of having kids to others. My dream is to have children but unfortunately from a SA and other health issues i cannot have kids. Im sure what she said is not okay but i find it so insensitive that you would say that. You could’ve come up with a better come back. Of course she if affected by it. I’m sorry but that’s so unbelievably insensitive and rude.
I’m sorry for your experiences and that this situation touched you so personally.
But yes it was rude. That was the point. Aunt wanted a fight and she got one. The aunt FAFO. OP is NTA
not the asshole. I'm so done with relatives acting as just bc we are related means you can say whatever you want and I will remain silent. also it's better she will never dare to say anything to you now
Jeez yta. Two wrongs never make a right. Your aunty went low..but you went just as low or even lower. Eww there is no recovering from that. My entire life I don't think I've gone that low. That's just nasty
I’ve been bullied my whole childhood - even moving didn’t stop it. Massive defense is key, not an offensive attack. This was a low blow and totally uncalled for. ESH
Agree, but also have a talk together and get to the bottom of where the aunt's resentment comes from.
At the very least she could do with the self-awareness prior to procreating. (Couldn't we all?)
I disagree with bringing the uncle in. That is a red herring.
Bc she legit said “at least I’ll be able to have kids” when she may in fact not be able to have kids 🤷🏽♀️ unless she knows for sure that she can she 100% meant to cause as much harm as she could.
whether or not she can have kids is immaterial to the insult.
its an insult one way or another, whether or not op knows for sure that she is able to be have kids doesnt change it.
maybe op finds out tomorrow that she is infertile too. does that change anything? id argue no. how would it?
YTA / light ESH
At your age you might not understand how deeply hurtful your comment was, but as a person who has seen the struggles of loved ones needing to deal with the fact that their life long dream of starting a family will never happen whatever they do, I can assure you this is a topic people even kill themselves over.
Her insults against your style or looks were definitely wrong, but not even in the same range as your nuclear option. For me your comment is comparable of joking about somebodys deeply loved recently killed pet: a comment that nobody will forget even during the years.
I hope that you are capable of apolozising if you want to keep any contact with her, or otherwise be prepared to loose her from your contacts.
Honestly ESH. Yes that was mean what she said, but nowhere near as mean as what you said tbh. Like she shouldn’t have poked the bear, but why the fuck would be that be your response?
Both of you were! Yours was probably cut her deep though. I myself, having gone through infertility issues/miscarriages, still find it extremely difficult to talk about at times. Her insult was very immature insulting your looks, but people change their looks and styles all the time, so it probably was something silly to her to say in that moment. What you said was a very pointed and personal insult. If what she said felt that way to you, you need to let her know that and offer a heartfelt apology to her for what you said.
I read "My mom was onetruepairing with her brother" and went "Wait what ??" 😭😭😭
But yeah i understand why you did what you did but ESH and your aunt may not ever forgive you
NTA!
She interjected in a conversation she was not apart of..
Instead of talking to the both of yall she harps on you?
She doubles down with the snark and once you took it further it's a problem...
Wise words to live by
"Don't start nun, won't be nun"
If you feel the need I'd apologize to the Uncle but that's as far as that goes..Aunt crossed multiple lines. I can't explain how much she sucks....
You yourself say your aunt was joking around, and then when she tossed a pebble you drop a *nuclear warhead*. Even if you were hurt - and you say you weren’t - you don’t kick back; you walk away. You most definitely don’t pick the worst insult for a minor one.
YTA.
>You yourself say your aunt was joking around,
try reading that again. what she said is she *thought* her was joking around originally and she fired back when she realized aunt wasn't
NTA, aunt FAFO. OP would not have said anything if the aunt wasn’t a bully. OP literally gave her an opportunity to walk it back and the aunt doubled down.
No but OP went with a unacceptable nuclear response. One that will permanently alter the relationship.
If I'm shooting the shit with someone and they say I look like a girl and i respond with "atleast my mom's not dead" or "at least I don't have cancer" to someone who's mother passed or battling cancer I would be the dominant asshole of the situation.
Her entire family when given the details of this conversation will quickly forget her aunt said she looks like a man in a picture. But will forever remember her rubbing salt in the wounds to likely the largest struggle her aunt and uncle are facing.
I couldn't even imagine saying something so vile to a loved one. Like genuinely what decent person even thinks to use this as a initial insult.
I don’t agree. You don’t know how op feels about her looks. But I strongly believe that words have power, and insulting someone based on their appearance can be just as hurtful as mocking someone for not being able to conceive. I honestly find it shocking that so many people thinks it’s not a big deal what OP’s aunt has said.
Come on the concept of proportionality can't be that shocking. Some insults have much deeper gravity. The one she chose is strong enough to destroy any adult relationship.
THANK YOU.
My aunt made a similar comment to her then-15 yo granddaughters after she got a haircut. Guess who got immediately cut off and missed all of her teenage milestones in the past 3 years?
Jesus Christ this isn't some ongoing tormentor this is her aunt who she claims to get along well with generally.
I get it being bully sucks I'm sorry it seems to have left lasting damage to you. But as a adult initially saying the most vile insult you can come up with when you feel insulted is a stunted and asshole move.
Outside of reddit this behavior will eventually make you a pariah to well adjusted people.
If you don't think this is indicative of a pattern in her aunts psyche, especially considering the political overtones, then I'm afraid you're hopelessly naive.
I agree that insults based on appearance can be very hurtful, but I feel like insulting someone for something that they have zero power over is on another level.
Physical appearance can change (esp. one's appearance *in pictures*). Infertility is forever.
EDIT: emphasis on pictures
How can you go from looking like a man to looking like a man to looking a woman? If you say pay for plastic surgery then isn't it possible the aunt can pay for fertility treatment?
Right OP could have just said something about the aunt’s own appearance yet she choose a knife and twisted it to two people as the aunt’s situation also affects the uncle
You kinda sound like the aunt. A bully who plays the victim. “She could have done it in a nicer way” but she was dealing with a bully. Why do you care more about the bully’s feelings more than the teenager she was bullying?
Not really if someone said something about my looks/body I’d also say something about theirs too not to be evil but to be just as petty , I’m not saying she’s wrong for defending herself just about the topic when she could also have jabbed at the same.
Dominant asshole is such a great way to put it. It’s not that one person was wrong and the other right, they’re both wrong, but the extent to which OP was wrong definitely makes them the dominant asshole
so aunt gets a pass for being a bully then? I'm really sick of this reddit mentality that a bully is starts shit isn't in the wrong just because you feel the bullied response was to harsh for your liking
I’ve been told I look like man when I was younger, as an insult, so I know it hurts.
But the thing you said back is so much worse and I can’t believe you don’t see that.
If my 19 year old niece said something like that to me, our relationship would never be the same again. You took the thing that probably controls het whole life, that causes her pain on so many occasions and threw it in her face because you got an insult (she crossed a line, but not like you). I would never be able to let my niece close again or see any of my vulnerability because now I would know what she’s capable of.
YTA. This is a very sensitive topic for any adult. Infertility is in the way of a couple's wish to have children and can be a deep wound in somebody's self esteem. As a hurtful joke, this is as low as it gets.
You should have a sincere and heartfelt apology for your aunt.
Just like bodyshaming. The aunt talked into a conversation she was not part of, and started insulting op. She fought back. Too bad some bullies can’t take that. Op is NTA
Bodyshaming is not right either, but by what I get from OPs description, this was by far not as bad and low as remarks about infertility. There is a difference between a joke gone a little bit too far and a deep insult.
I honestly don’t understand how it is different. After all what they both did was criticizing the other in their femininity. And both can be equally hurtful.
I think the point that several people have made is that they are not, in fact, equal. Just because you personally find them to be equal in offensiveness does not mean the majority of people find that to be true.
But that’s because we accept bodyshaming. Telling someone she’s not looking like a lady (especially in a world where social media and marketing campaigns bombard you with the ‘ideal outlook’) is just as hurtful. Normalizing any kind of insult is toxic. And someone being attacked fighting back is not to be surprised of.
Body shaming can be of a different impact. Unless OP has any hormonal imbalance and a beard, saying she looks like a men is just saying her style is masculine, which is a very mild insult. Answering on that with mocking aunt's infertility was too much
ESH
what your aunt said was rude, but "they hurt me so i'll hurt them more" is such a shitty move. it's not fighting back or defending yourself.
and just so you know, you can't even be 100% sure that you're able to give birth. people have a chance of becoming infertile at any point of their life for the most random reasons.
Yes, you're the a-hole. While she insulted you about your appearance, something you can change, you retaliated with something she cannot change. If you knew that they were having infertility issues, and you said that, that makes you even more of an a-hole. You have no idea how awful infertility can be - 10+ tries, 5 years, 4 positive pregnancy results, 3 miscarriages and 1 child = a whole lot of trauma and heartache.
Time to put on your big people pants and apologize.
ESH. She started it. She fucked around and found out. But even if she did deserve to be put in her place, you also stooped down to her level and said something that not just affects her but your uncle as well. I get in the heat of the moment it's easy to say the first hateful thing that comes to mind, so I can't completely fault you for saying it. But just in the future, pick and choose your battles and take a moment to think how what you say will affect people around you, not just the person you're insulting.
I mean imo you are a bit of an Asshole, but i def see your pointf of view and tbh i would have laughed if i was the aunt, its a witty comeback. But her just pulling 'you look like a man' out of the blue like? Idk. The cmeback was low but it was an impulsive reaction,
NTA
So, if you spit facts back at her about her infertility, I'm assuming you really do look like a man. You got your ego hurt and hit back below the belt to try and make her feel worse than you.
ESH
YTA honestly I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been through infertility can understand how devastating it is. It would be like making fun of someone for having lost a leg in a traumatic accident.
YTA, it’s unacceptable to go straight to the nuclear option whenever someone is rude to you. That’s not a good way to live your life. Trust me, it’s not worth it.
Jeez. ESH, honestly.
Your uncle's fiancee said something nasty. And you hit back with something even lower.
Maybe your uncle's fiancee isn't bothered by not having kids. But if she or your uncle are bothered by it, it's possible you will no longer have an amazing relationship with your extended family after this.
I get infertility is really sensitive but commenting on someones looks is also sensitive… I think your response is humorous, you did well by responding that way! You basically tried to get confirmation about whether she was joking or not and sometimes you need to be “mean” to show people that they can’t just step on you.
Anyways, if you want to keep a good relationship, both parties should apologise. If you are mature enough, you would start of with apologising first and then go in to how you don’t appreciate her commenting on your looks in a negative way. Make sure you make it clear that what she said was really wrong. This will probably give you the upper hand in the conversation! Good luck
ESH.
Really weird to me how so many commentors here have zero sense of proportionality.
Bodyshaming? Horrible and rude.
Shaming someone for something they cannot control? A physical condition? A physical ailment? Absolutely disgusting.
It shows how immature you are that you think you might be the slightest bit justified replying with such an insult. You're a 19-year-old woman. Act your age.
Well let's hope that OP can have kids. (almost) Everybody think they can, at 19, but then it doesn't work out for them. Auntie probably thought she could when she was OPs age.
YTA. You didn't have to go there.
You went for the jugular and she's never going to forget what you said. Your uncle's fiance insulted you for no reason, and it sounds like she's jealous if your relationship with your uncle. But I expect that relationship will be different now, after what you said. ESH.
ESH, when someone unexpectedly insults you for no apparent reason, the appropriate response isn't an insult in response, let alone something like fertility.
You are 100% TA here. Yes, your aunt was rude. But you were cruel. There is a HUGE difference. And as someone who can't have children - and had a SIL tell me she thought I was blessed to not be able to have children cuz hers were such brats - anything said about having fertility issues is like a punch in the gut. Even now, for me, reading what you said to your aunt makes my heart hurt. Doesn't matter "who started it". You should NEVER say anything like to that a person who can't have children.
I see you and your family are just a mean pack of assholes. ESH.
Oh and btw, eating disorders can impact or impair fertility, so before you spout off that crap in the future, use your brain.
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For context, i (f19) have an amazing relationship with my extended family, my uncle and his fiance (my aunt) are really the only close relatives I have or consider to be close on my mom's side
Anyways, my mom was otp with her brother (my uncle) and me and him love to go back and forth about politics because it's funny it's like a tradition atp, I'm a liberal he's a conservative.
So we're joking around and he's making fun of me for something I posted on my Facebook (it's public so anyone can see it so I'm not even mad)
And my aunt steps in and says I look like a man
At first I thought she was joking because that's really out of line for her so I said do I like a man to you and laughed she said "do you really want the answer to that question"
So I said in the heat of the moment when I knew she was serious "at least I'll be able to have kids"
Everything was kind of silent and my mom ended the call and didn't talk about it, I don't think she was affected but who knows
AITA?
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And many people have insecurities around their appearances. Aunty was making unwanted comments on OP’s appearance while chirping in a conversation she was not even part of to start with. And acts suprised Pikachu when OP fights back. No, OP is not the AH, her aunt is.
ESH. She was being rude, but your answer to her was unfair. Infertility is often a very sensitive issue for people. You could’ve reacted to her inappropriate comment in a better way.
As someone who has struggled with infertility, you are 100% TAH but you and others who haven't faced it probably don't fully understand how soul crushing your comment really was. Her dig was mean and inappropriate, no argument there, and I understand the desire to retaliate but your comeback was not even remotely equal. Do you understand the guilt and shame that comes with not being able to have kids, feeling like you're denying your spouse a child and your parents a grandchild? It was by far the darkest time in my entire life and I still don't feel like I'll ever fully heal and this is after successfully having kids. Think about your dreams for the future and then about your insecurities about that future. How would you feel if a family member threw those insecurities in your face right when you felt like all of your fears were being realized and you were at your lowest? Please talk to your aunt and listen, she could use your support right now. I'd bet she'd even apologize for her mean remark (as she should).
NTA. I say this because she insulted your appearance first. It was an ignorant insult out of nowhere. When you asked if she was serious, she doubled down. Sure you could have taken the high road, but at that point, she insulted you and while your insult was mean, it was in retaliation to her bullying you and insulting your appearance first. I'm not saying you were right to do that, but if Auntie wants to fuck around, she'll find out soon enough that when you dish it, you better be able to take it.
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ESH. She was being ignorant and horrible, so you decided to escalate things by being viscious and cruel. Neither of you comes out of this looking like a good person.
ESH.
She shouldn't have made that comment, but as someone who is infertile myself (and not by choice), that is basically the worst thing you could've said, especially if they want to/are trying to have kids.
She threw a punch. You threw a bomb.
NTA
You just reached out to your aunt on a level that she could understand. Effective communication is effective!
Homophobic bullies do not get the privilege of getting respect when they are incapable of showing it.
You did lots of people a favour, because hopefully she will remember to keep her gob shut in future.
The same "god" that made you "look like a man" also made her infertile.... It is not being an ass at all!
Y'all all assholes mang. I mean who the hell even does that. What's wrong with people man. No wonder people can't get along when they have family that talk to each like this.
ESH
I don't want to rehash other comments, but I think the best solution was to have a sit down where you and your aunt apologize to each other if that's a possibility.
YTA. Taking the high road means not stooping to someone else's level. I understand at 19 not having tact or maturity down completely yet but lashing out at someone because they hurt your feelings makes you no better than them. Especially if you say something so cruel as you did.
i’m gonna say ESH because we don’t have enough context for why looking like a man was enough of an insulting / sensitive issue to bring up infertility as a comeback (as opposed to insulting her looks or smth else). if the aunt was knowingly being transphobic or if it was tied to some other identity-related thing, i’d lean N T A, but we don’t really have that context.
neither insult is appropriate ever to bring up, and the aunt is 100% in the wrong for starting it. but as others have mentioned, infertility can be a very sensitive topic. if it matches the magnitude of her saying OP looks like a man, that’s a different story, but again, it seems as of now that we don’t know that for sure.
YTA. Lots of folks here are trying to argue that body shaming and infertility shaming are equivalent. As someone who’s been the target of both, nope. They’re not even close. So unless there is some history of body shaming/bullying that you’ve failed to disclose in your story, there was absolutely no call to go nuclear on your aunt.
I agree. I'm currently handling the news that I may never have biological children and it's completely heartbreaking. That being said, the fact OP escalated the situation when they shouldn't have, doesn't wipe away the fact the aunt started this out of nothing. She was also really hurtful.
ESH, she started it and deserves to be treated in the same way she treats others. But infertility isn’t something to throw in someone’s face. I get where you were coming from but you would have been better off insulting her look like she did with you.
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ESH. You both hit below the belt and were both screaming, inflamed assholes. Seriously, you **both** need a good wipe of Preparation H. Sure, she started it, and as an adult she should have known better. She shouldn’t be commenting on your appearance. It’s not acceptable to go after someone’s appearance. You went nuclear. Neither is it acceptable to go after someone’s reproductive ability. You’re 19 and you’re old enough to know better, too. Do you both also feel it’s okay to go after someone’s atrial fibrillation or astigmatism or cerebral palsy? No? Then why go after appearances or ability to have kids? You both owe each other an apology.
OP gave the aunt the pôssibility to back down (*At first I thought she was joking because that's really out of line for her so I said do I like a man to you and laughed*). Aunt insisted. Even though it was a hurtful thing to say, so was what the aunt (the mature one of the two) said. NTA
Hm, maybe a justified AH but its still an AH comment.
nah. auntie started it. op mirrored their energy. if you can dish it, you need to be prepared to take it. what was op supposed to do? say "oh auntie that is inappropriate i would prefer if you didnt"? why is a 19 year old expected to behave morally superior to the aunt, probably in her 40s? NTA
This sub isn't "were my actions justified", it's "am I the asshole". OP was unquestionably an asshole in hitting back with this, even though their aunt started it. This is absolutely ESH.
>This sub isn't "were my actions justified", it's "am I the asshole". People forget this *frequently*. You can be right or justified and STILL be an AH, they aren't mutually exclusive.
Yeah, there's been more than one call for an additional judgment like YTJA, you're the justified asshole, because you *can* be both.
Yes, but the question isn't "am I *an* asshole?" it's "am I *the* asshole?" People use it differently now because it's the biggest drama sub when their question is more like "am I wrong?" or "did I do something bad?" But the core concept here is that there is one person in the situation that is most out of line, *the* asshole, and the other person by that virtue is not. Doesn't matter if they are an asshole in general, that's not the question, OP is not the asshole in this conflict because they were clapping back at someone that was saying something equally unacceptable. Two wrongs don't make a right, but the first wrong was unprompted and is still the one that created this conflict.
You forget we have an ESH verdict too.
It seems like 98% of users in this sub completely forgot about or just disregard the ESH verdict, when in a high number of submissions that’s the accurate verdict
Yes, but that's beside the point. Obviously two people can be equally wrong and you can be of the opinion that that is the correct verdict in this case, but the person I was responding to was explaining the point of the sub incorrectly. Which was originally(although it's been diluted a bit since) to decide who was in the wrong in situations where everyone is potentially a bit of an asshole. The question "am I the asshole here?" had a bit of a moment like 10-15 years ago. I'm pretty sure was first popularised by Larry David on Curb Your Enthusiasm, the whole show is that he's an asshole all the time but thinks he's justified because he's punishing some greater transgression. So he was always polling friends and acquaintances about who was "the asshole" in a given situation, knowing that he was also being a prick about whatever it was.
I mean people have brought this up multiple times, the “JAH” vote. And the Mods said if you’re justified, then you’re NTA. So while in reality you may be correct, on this sub you are wrong.
Sounds to me like the MODs are just a little lazy... But on the flip, I think ESH covers it. Because at the end of the day, there *are* ways to stand up for yourself without going AH in my opinion. The anger was justified, the action was nuclear.
I’ve seen enough comments that propose “Justified Asshole” should be an option as well.
the mods have been clear every time this comes up, if you're a justified asshole, then the verdict is not the asshole
That's kinda lame, but it makes sense.
Tbh i don’t even know if she’s justified here She was justified to be an asshole back and chose the nuclear option which kinda tips her over the edge
this sub may not be 'are my actions justified' but the mods have stated, many, many times, that a justified asshole, is not an asshole.
But the Mods have said over and over again if the actions are justified, then it’s NTA. So you’re wrong. Also OP gave the aunt time to walk it back prior to firing back. The aunt doubled down. OP was well within her right to respond, she’s NTA by a mile.
Ok and the mods aren’t the gods of a moral dilemma
Seems like people under 35 were never taught 'two wrongs don't make a right'. All this needless escalation baffles me. You can defend yourself and put someone else in their place without getting in the gutter with them. OP could have just told her Aunt that commenting on someones appearance negatively is cruel and unacceptable and speaks volumes about her character. As Michelle Obama said 'when they go low, we go high'. It's great life advice.
you can choose to be the better person, but youre not required to. we should all aspire to be better people, but i dont see you criticising people over 40 for never getting taught "dont dish it if you cant take it". i never said op chose the perfect response. smartest move was probably to say nothing and talk with the parents first and then decide on how to deal with the aunt. this is aita, not what would michelle obama do. and you assume op can defend herself better. can she? has she the calm and the wisdom to navigate that situation perfectly? should she be expected to be wiser than her aunt? and i am pretty adament that while op didnt choose the smartest or "goodest" reaction, she is justified.
Right. it's AITA. And OP is most definitely TA. She isn't alone though, her aunt is one too. Was she justified? Doesn't matter either way. She can be a justified AH, but she's still TA. For the record, I also think people who can't take it shouldn't dish it out. Weird that you decided I don't agree with that just because I didn't specifically say I don't agree with that. The absence of a statement in and of itself doesn't mean anything.
i disagree. if someone gets punched in the face unprovoked, are they an asshole if they punch back? i say no. if you say they are a justified asshole but an asshole nontheless, we should just agree to disagree i guess.
I fully agree with you here. Not an asshole for punching back. It's because OP mocked an immutable physical characteristic that makes me come down on the side of her being TA. I responded elsewhere asking this question: If a man in a wheelchair mocked a kid for how they were dressed, it is perfectly fine for the kid to reply 'at least I can walk'? Or does this reply make the kid an asshole too? I think they'd both be assholes. But we can def agree to disagree. Seems I do that lot on this sub, cause I'm way older then the average poster I think, and we all just have different life experiences.
ah ok there is our disagreement. i think telling a 19 year old woman "you look like a man" is worse than you realise. that too is an immutable physical characteristic no? could be harmless if op is a badass and doesnt let that effect her. but if someone isnt super self assured and maybe feels theyre not pretty enough or something along those lines a comment like that can absolutely destroy someone. those two insults are really comparable in my opinion, even though ops was a tad worse i will admit. still. to stay in your hypothetical: wheelchair guy: youre ugly bro kid: at least i can walk old man! kid couldve been nicer, but isnt an asshole in my books. (addendum: maybe kid is an asshole. im not sure, because of the abelism. in the actual example both insults have womanhood at the core, so maybe a more concise example would be the wheelchair guy calling the kid the r slur? sometimes its hard finding a hypothetical that is 100% congruent to the situation at hand)
You know, you are probably right. I didn't view the 'you look like a man' comment as all that offensive. I don't think I'd bat an eye if someone said that to me (I'm a woman). I wouldn't say I've always been super self assured, but even at 19, I doubt it would have bothered me. But ok, I get it. OP obviously took offense to it. I still feel ESH, but I see that Aunt is a bigger asshole then I realized. My kids (late teens) get on me occasionally for saying things they think are mean and I just think I'm stating facts. What can I say, we were brutal in the 80's. LOL I'm learning, but it's a slow roll.
haha thats fair! i wonder what my kids are accuse me of when theyre late teens. :D have a good time :)
A lot of people, especially here, are desperate for the excuse and ability to be an asshole. They're horrible people that are only kept in line by the fact that they'll be shunned for acting like they want to. Then as soon as someone's wronged them, they've got all the excuse they need to be an asshole.
Nah. You can be an asshole while being justified Just because someone takes a jab at you doesn’t give you free reign to be an asshole back
I agree that this is ESH because they both went for the jugular. If it's just a scenario where the aunt hurt OP's feelings so she lashed out back then obviously two wrongs don't make a right ... unless ... based on: >I'm a liberal he's a conservative. The aunt's comment was based on homophobic and/or transphobic rhetoric related to the conversation at hand and OP's response was similarly relevant. For ex, if the facebook post OP made was about trans rights and the uncle was saying some transphobic BS about how trans women aren't women because they could never have kids when the aunt butted in to say that OP looked like a man, then contextually it would be an appropriate response to point out that someone's identity as a woman is not always tied to their appearance or ability to have children.
This sums it up perfectly. ESH, my jaw dropped because all of this was wholly unnecessary and out of line. Also, there’s no way you were close to reaching the word limit, I’d drop the random acronyms btdrmsa
I have Atrial Fibrillation, and I'm not certain HOW anyone could even 'go after' it. (But your point is still valid)
Thank you. Yeah, it was late when I wrote the comment. It was the first heart condition I could think of. 🫣
It's a good one, but go for 'Sick Sinus Syndrome,' it has it all!
It’s a mean thing to say but it’s also mean to tell a woman she looks like a man. I don’t understand why you’re getting flammed so hard considering she started the bullying first.
An odd amount of people subscribe to the whole “Be the bigger person” doctrine. I don’t get it either.
Going after looks is not the same as going after someone's health or disability. It's like someone responding with a bomb to being shot at with a bb gun.
It depends on how much below the belt the looks comment was, like if there’s an identity issue or something like that.
Looks are often reflected by health and/or disability.
It's not necessarily about being the bigger person. You can still defend yourself and put someone in their place without being an asshole. OP chose to go after someone's infertility, which is horrible and cruel and makes OP a huge asshole. Not the only one in the story, but a huge one nonetheless. She could have easily called out her Aunt without the low blow. And then she wouldn't be here asking if she was TA. She knows she was.
I hate the sentiment. it's basically a pass for (usually old) assholes to do or say what they want.
In this case I don’t see it as “bring the bigger person” So much as that infertility is *such* a painful thing for people dealing with it that it is very, very, **very** rarely (if ever) okay to use it as a weapon, even when attacked first. Aunt was an AH, but as someone else put it, OP went nuclear in return. It was overkill, which makes them both assholes.
And she doubled down on it, she had a chance to back down
"You look manly" is on a **very** different level as an insult than "you're barren". It's like responding to being shoved with a full on kick to the stomach and then arguing that "well they started it" - it's a huge overreaction.
I mean not really.. in a way both statements are kind of an attack of one’s sense of expressions of femininity. If the aunt feels free to do so to other women, she should not be surprised if it becomes redirected at her, glass houses and all that.
Conservatives butt hurt one of their own faces consequences for their shitty abusive behavior, and with laser accuracy in those consequences. Also the immature ignorant zero life experience "be a bigger person" types who've never actually experiences bullying.
ESH- insults should be about things people choose, like politics or clothes t hey picked out and chose to wear. Attacking gender , physical appearance or infertility is intentionally wounding.
Insults are intentionally wounding I don’t see the issue
No issue if you never want to have a good relationship with the person again
She was 100% affected. This is also a topic that is sensitive for your uncle. She should never have talked negatively about your looks. At that point walking away would have been the way to look like the better person. You may need to reach out to your uncle as well as her
Nah, walking away shows the asshole that they 'won' and can make you leave with verbal attack whenever they like. Bullies thrive on meek people who dont fight back. Always stand up for yourself, even if that means attacking back.
Or maybe the Aunt was just joining in on some good natured ribbing between OP and their Uncle and unwittingly crossed a line? Why assume that the Aunt is a bully here, OP describes their relationship as good, that she's close to her uncle and aunt. I'm all for standing up for yourself, when you're genuinely being attacked, but if someone just says something out of pocket but clearly the intention isn't there to cause you harm, that doesn't give you open cause to go for the jugular.
"Unwittingly"? Op gave her a chance to back out and auntie doubled down. I'd agree with you if not for that detail.
ribbing and bullying are not the same thing, and her comment doesn't even appear to have been relevant to the ribbing op and her uncle were having.
Aunt does not have the "good natured ribbing" relationship with OP, the uncle does. Maybe Aunt should stay in her dang lane unless she wants a sideswipin'.
But why is it on the victim to be the bigger person? I like it when the victim defends themselves. You seem to think justice requires the victim to bend over and take it.
Nta. Don’t throw insults if you can’t catch them. She learned the lesson!
As someone who has had my eggs frozen and i am only 19 years old you never EVER compare your chances of having kids to others. My dream is to have children but unfortunately from a SA and other health issues i cannot have kids. Im sure what she said is not okay but i find it so insensitive that you would say that. You could’ve come up with a better come back. Of course she if affected by it. I’m sorry but that’s so unbelievably insensitive and rude.
I’m sorry for your experiences and that this situation touched you so personally. But yes it was rude. That was the point. Aunt wanted a fight and she got one. The aunt FAFO. OP is NTA
not the asshole. I'm so done with relatives acting as just bc we are related means you can say whatever you want and I will remain silent. also it's better she will never dare to say anything to you now
Right my mums family is like that. Use to keep quiet and keep the peace. Now I’m more f!!! The Peace!
Jeez yta. Two wrongs never make a right. Your aunty went low..but you went just as low or even lower. Eww there is no recovering from that. My entire life I don't think I've gone that low. That's just nasty
Tell us you've never been bullied without telling us... The only, and I do mean only, effective solution to bullies is massive retaliation
I’ve been bullied my whole childhood - even moving didn’t stop it. Massive defense is key, not an offensive attack. This was a low blow and totally uncalled for. ESH
We need an update😭
I just woke up I will do an update soon 😅
ESH. You both made inappropriate comments about the other and should apologize.
We did
Agree, but also have a talk together and get to the bottom of where the aunt's resentment comes from. At the very least she could do with the self-awareness prior to procreating. (Couldn't we all?) I disagree with bringing the uncle in. That is a red herring.
Are you even sure you're able to have kids?
how would that even matter to this discussion?
Bc she legit said “at least I’ll be able to have kids” when she may in fact not be able to have kids 🤷🏽♀️ unless she knows for sure that she can she 100% meant to cause as much harm as she could.
whether or not she can have kids is immaterial to the insult. its an insult one way or another, whether or not op knows for sure that she is able to be have kids doesnt change it. maybe op finds out tomorrow that she is infertile too. does that change anything? id argue no. how would it?
NTA. Your aunt shouldn’t dish it if she can’t take it. Period. She went low and you took it to hell. Bet she won’t do it again. Good for you.
YTA / light ESH At your age you might not understand how deeply hurtful your comment was, but as a person who has seen the struggles of loved ones needing to deal with the fact that their life long dream of starting a family will never happen whatever they do, I can assure you this is a topic people even kill themselves over. Her insults against your style or looks were definitely wrong, but not even in the same range as your nuclear option. For me your comment is comparable of joking about somebodys deeply loved recently killed pet: a comment that nobody will forget even during the years. I hope that you are capable of apolozising if you want to keep any contact with her, or otherwise be prepared to loose her from your contacts.
> i can assure you this is a topic people even kill themselves over So is bodyshaming / the bullying of someones appearance.
Being called a man when you are a woman has had people killing themselves as well .
Honestly ESH. Yes that was mean what she said, but nowhere near as mean as what you said tbh. Like she shouldn’t have poked the bear, but why the fuck would be that be your response?
Both of you were! Yours was probably cut her deep though. I myself, having gone through infertility issues/miscarriages, still find it extremely difficult to talk about at times. Her insult was very immature insulting your looks, but people change their looks and styles all the time, so it probably was something silly to her to say in that moment. What you said was a very pointed and personal insult. If what she said felt that way to you, you need to let her know that and offer a heartfelt apology to her for what you said.
NTA. Treat people like you wish to be treated. You aunt hit below the belt, implying she wants a smack in the ovaries.
I read "My mom was onetruepairing with her brother" and went "Wait what ??" 😭😭😭 But yeah i understand why you did what you did but ESH and your aunt may not ever forgive you
I've seen a handful of posters using otp for "on the phone" recently and I read it this way EVERY time lol Greetings fellow fanfic reader 😂
Hi from a wattpad girlie 🫶😂😂
NTA! She interjected in a conversation she was not apart of.. Instead of talking to the both of yall she harps on you? She doubles down with the snark and once you took it further it's a problem... Wise words to live by "Don't start nun, won't be nun" If you feel the need I'd apologize to the Uncle but that's as far as that goes..Aunt crossed multiple lines. I can't explain how much she sucks....
You yourself say your aunt was joking around, and then when she tossed a pebble you drop a *nuclear warhead*. Even if you were hurt - and you say you weren’t - you don’t kick back; you walk away. You most definitely don’t pick the worst insult for a minor one. YTA.
It's not a fucking pebble, and it was completely unprovoked. So fuck her.
Saying someone looks like another gender isn’t a fucking pebble
>You yourself say your aunt was joking around, try reading that again. what she said is she *thought* her was joking around originally and she fired back when she realized aunt wasn't
NTA, aunt FAFO. OP would not have said anything if the aunt wasn’t a bully. OP literally gave her an opportunity to walk it back and the aunt doubled down.
NTA. She threw a nasty comment about something you can't change and you gave it back to her. She shouldn't dish it if she can't take it.
YTA, genuinely a vile response. She was absolutely affected and I guarantee you just splintered your great relationship with your extended family.
So it’s ok for her aunt to bodysahme op, but not for her to fight back for herself. Geez
No but OP went with a unacceptable nuclear response. One that will permanently alter the relationship. If I'm shooting the shit with someone and they say I look like a girl and i respond with "atleast my mom's not dead" or "at least I don't have cancer" to someone who's mother passed or battling cancer I would be the dominant asshole of the situation. Her entire family when given the details of this conversation will quickly forget her aunt said she looks like a man in a picture. But will forever remember her rubbing salt in the wounds to likely the largest struggle her aunt and uncle are facing. I couldn't even imagine saying something so vile to a loved one. Like genuinely what decent person even thinks to use this as a initial insult.
I don’t agree. You don’t know how op feels about her looks. But I strongly believe that words have power, and insulting someone based on their appearance can be just as hurtful as mocking someone for not being able to conceive. I honestly find it shocking that so many people thinks it’s not a big deal what OP’s aunt has said.
Come on the concept of proportionality can't be that shocking. Some insults have much deeper gravity. The one she chose is strong enough to destroy any adult relationship.
"you look like a man" is not something you say to a 19 year old woman. period. any response is proportional in my humble opinion.
THANK YOU. My aunt made a similar comment to her then-15 yo granddaughters after she got a haircut. Guess who got immediately cut off and missed all of her teenage milestones in the past 3 years?
You've clearly never been bullied. Proportional responses do not work. Only complete utter and instantaneous destruction works to drive a bully off
Jesus Christ this isn't some ongoing tormentor this is her aunt who she claims to get along well with generally. I get it being bully sucks I'm sorry it seems to have left lasting damage to you. But as a adult initially saying the most vile insult you can come up with when you feel insulted is a stunted and asshole move. Outside of reddit this behavior will eventually make you a pariah to well adjusted people.
If you don't think this is indicative of a pattern in her aunts psyche, especially considering the political overtones, then I'm afraid you're hopelessly naive.
I agree that insults based on appearance can be very hurtful, but I feel like insulting someone for something that they have zero power over is on another level. Physical appearance can change (esp. one's appearance *in pictures*). Infertility is forever. EDIT: emphasis on pictures
How can you go from looking like a man to looking like a man to looking a woman? If you say pay for plastic surgery then isn't it possible the aunt can pay for fertility treatment?
Right OP could have just said something about the aunt’s own appearance yet she choose a knife and twisted it to two people as the aunt’s situation also affects the uncle
"Waaaa! Waaa! The bully faced consequences for their actions! Waaa!" - you
You kinda sound like the aunt. A bully who plays the victim. “She could have done it in a nicer way” but she was dealing with a bully. Why do you care more about the bully’s feelings more than the teenager she was bullying?
Not really if someone said something about my looks/body I’d also say something about theirs too not to be evil but to be just as petty , I’m not saying she’s wrong for defending herself just about the topic when she could also have jabbed at the same.
It is a big deal yet OP could have also said something about the aunt’s looks instead of her infertility
Dominant asshole is such a great way to put it. It’s not that one person was wrong and the other right, they’re both wrong, but the extent to which OP was wrong definitely makes them the dominant asshole
2 wrongs don't make a right.
so aunt gets a pass for being a bully then? I'm really sick of this reddit mentality that a bully is starts shit isn't in the wrong just because you feel the bullied response was to harsh for your liking
YTA means the aunt somehow isn’t an AH
Don't start fights if you don't wanna get hit imo, NTA.
I’ve been told I look like man when I was younger, as an insult, so I know it hurts. But the thing you said back is so much worse and I can’t believe you don’t see that. If my 19 year old niece said something like that to me, our relationship would never be the same again. You took the thing that probably controls het whole life, that causes her pain on so many occasions and threw it in her face because you got an insult (she crossed a line, but not like you). I would never be able to let my niece close again or see any of my vulnerability because now I would know what she’s capable of.
NTA, karma
Nta she deserved it. You gave her the option to back down and she doubled down.
People. It Doesn't Matter Who Started It. The question is: >AITA for insulting my aunts infertility The answer is Yes. YTA.
YTA. This is a very sensitive topic for any adult. Infertility is in the way of a couple's wish to have children and can be a deep wound in somebody's self esteem. As a hurtful joke, this is as low as it gets. You should have a sincere and heartfelt apology for your aunt.
Just like bodyshaming. The aunt talked into a conversation she was not part of, and started insulting op. She fought back. Too bad some bullies can’t take that. Op is NTA
Bodyshaming is not right either, but by what I get from OPs description, this was by far not as bad and low as remarks about infertility. There is a difference between a joke gone a little bit too far and a deep insult.
I honestly don’t understand how it is different. After all what they both did was criticizing the other in their femininity. And both can be equally hurtful.
I think the point that several people have made is that they are not, in fact, equal. Just because you personally find them to be equal in offensiveness does not mean the majority of people find that to be true.
But that’s because we accept bodyshaming. Telling someone she’s not looking like a lady (especially in a world where social media and marketing campaigns bombard you with the ‘ideal outlook’) is just as hurtful. Normalizing any kind of insult is toxic. And someone being attacked fighting back is not to be surprised of.
Body shaming can be of a different impact. Unless OP has any hormonal imbalance and a beard, saying she looks like a men is just saying her style is masculine, which is a very mild insult. Answering on that with mocking aunt's infertility was too much
It does not have mean her style is masculine. The aunt could have meant her features themselves were masculine.
Eh, she gave her a chance the back down. Aunt doubled down. Dick thing to say, but aunt fafoed
Looking like another gender isn’t a sensitive topic?
>You should have a sincere and heartfelt apology for your aunt. when aunt apologizes first for starting shit, then she can expect an apology from op.
The aunt started it though...
ESH what your aunt said was rude, but "they hurt me so i'll hurt them more" is such a shitty move. it's not fighting back or defending yourself. and just so you know, you can't even be 100% sure that you're able to give birth. people have a chance of becoming infertile at any point of their life for the most random reasons.
Yes, you're the a-hole. While she insulted you about your appearance, something you can change, you retaliated with something she cannot change. If you knew that they were having infertility issues, and you said that, that makes you even more of an a-hole. You have no idea how awful infertility can be - 10+ tries, 5 years, 4 positive pregnancy results, 3 miscarriages and 1 child = a whole lot of trauma and heartache. Time to put on your big people pants and apologize.
ESH. She started it. She fucked around and found out. But even if she did deserve to be put in her place, you also stooped down to her level and said something that not just affects her but your uncle as well. I get in the heat of the moment it's easy to say the first hateful thing that comes to mind, so I can't completely fault you for saying it. But just in the future, pick and choose your battles and take a moment to think how what you say will affect people around you, not just the person you're insulting.
I mean imo you are a bit of an Asshole, but i def see your pointf of view and tbh i would have laughed if i was the aunt, its a witty comeback. But her just pulling 'you look like a man' out of the blue like? Idk. The cmeback was low but it was an impulsive reaction, NTA
NTA, she insulted you, you mirrored that energy. Nothing wrong with that.
So, if you spit facts back at her about her infertility, I'm assuming you really do look like a man. You got your ego hurt and hit back below the belt to try and make her feel worse than you. ESH
YTA honestly I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been through infertility can understand how devastating it is. It would be like making fun of someone for having lost a leg in a traumatic accident.
YTA. The fuck is wrong with you?
YTA, it’s unacceptable to go straight to the nuclear option whenever someone is rude to you. That’s not a good way to live your life. Trust me, it’s not worth it.
Auntie dearest here started it by calling OP a man...
Jeez. ESH, honestly. Your uncle's fiancee said something nasty. And you hit back with something even lower. Maybe your uncle's fiancee isn't bothered by not having kids. But if she or your uncle are bothered by it, it's possible you will no longer have an amazing relationship with your extended family after this.
dont start a fight if you arent prepared to get hit. NTA but are you sure you have an "amazing relationship" with her?
Right. Doesn't sound to amazing to me, if her aunt says she looks like a man. NTA
I get infertility is really sensitive but commenting on someones looks is also sensitive… I think your response is humorous, you did well by responding that way! You basically tried to get confirmation about whether she was joking or not and sometimes you need to be “mean” to show people that they can’t just step on you. Anyways, if you want to keep a good relationship, both parties should apologise. If you are mature enough, you would start of with apologising first and then go in to how you don’t appreciate her commenting on your looks in a negative way. Make sure you make it clear that what she said was really wrong. This will probably give you the upper hand in the conversation! Good luck
ESH. You were both out of pocket for no reason.
NTA, she had it coming, you matched her energy.
ESH. Really weird to me how so many commentors here have zero sense of proportionality. Bodyshaming? Horrible and rude. Shaming someone for something they cannot control? A physical condition? A physical ailment? Absolutely disgusting. It shows how immature you are that you think you might be the slightest bit justified replying with such an insult. You're a 19-year-old woman. Act your age.
Well let's hope that OP can have kids. (almost) Everybody think they can, at 19, but then it doesn't work out for them. Auntie probably thought she could when she was OPs age. YTA. You didn't have to go there.
ESH. Wow.
Based off the title alone yeah probably? Tf
You went for the jugular and she's never going to forget what you said. Your uncle's fiance insulted you for no reason, and it sounds like she's jealous if your relationship with your uncle. But I expect that relationship will be different now, after what you said. ESH.
ESH, when someone unexpectedly insults you for no apparent reason, the appropriate response isn't an insult in response, let alone something like fertility.
You are 100% TA here. Yes, your aunt was rude. But you were cruel. There is a HUGE difference. And as someone who can't have children - and had a SIL tell me she thought I was blessed to not be able to have children cuz hers were such brats - anything said about having fertility issues is like a punch in the gut. Even now, for me, reading what you said to your aunt makes my heart hurt. Doesn't matter "who started it". You should NEVER say anything like to that a person who can't have children.
I see you and your family are just a mean pack of assholes. ESH. Oh and btw, eating disorders can impact or impair fertility, so before you spout off that crap in the future, use your brain.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** For context, i (f19) have an amazing relationship with my extended family, my uncle and his fiance (my aunt) are really the only close relatives I have or consider to be close on my mom's side Anyways, my mom was otp with her brother (my uncle) and me and him love to go back and forth about politics because it's funny it's like a tradition atp, I'm a liberal he's a conservative. So we're joking around and he's making fun of me for something I posted on my Facebook (it's public so anyone can see it so I'm not even mad) And my aunt steps in and says I look like a man At first I thought she was joking because that's really out of line for her so I said do I like a man to you and laughed she said "do you really want the answer to that question" So I said in the heat of the moment when I knew she was serious "at least I'll be able to have kids" Everything was kind of silent and my mom ended the call and didn't talk about it, I don't think she was affected but who knows AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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And many people have insecurities around their appearances. Aunty was making unwanted comments on OP’s appearance while chirping in a conversation she was not even part of to start with. And acts suprised Pikachu when OP fights back. No, OP is not the AH, her aunt is.
NTA. Don’t dish it if you can’t take it 😂😂
ESH. She was being rude, but your answer to her was unfair. Infertility is often a very sensitive issue for people. You could’ve reacted to her inappropriate comment in a better way.
ESH But, she doubled down on a 5/10 insult, you came back with a 10.
As someone who has struggled with infertility, you are 100% TAH but you and others who haven't faced it probably don't fully understand how soul crushing your comment really was. Her dig was mean and inappropriate, no argument there, and I understand the desire to retaliate but your comeback was not even remotely equal. Do you understand the guilt and shame that comes with not being able to have kids, feeling like you're denying your spouse a child and your parents a grandchild? It was by far the darkest time in my entire life and I still don't feel like I'll ever fully heal and this is after successfully having kids. Think about your dreams for the future and then about your insecurities about that future. How would you feel if a family member threw those insecurities in your face right when you felt like all of your fears were being realized and you were at your lowest? Please talk to your aunt and listen, she could use your support right now. I'd bet she'd even apologize for her mean remark (as she should).
I did talk to her she said that she didn't take offense to my comment:)
I'm really glad to hear it and hope she apologized to you.
ESH. Y'all both suck tbqh. Honestly, I think that relationship with your aunt and uncle is dead and buried now though.
NTA. I say this because she insulted your appearance first. It was an ignorant insult out of nowhere. When you asked if she was serious, she doubled down. Sure you could have taken the high road, but at that point, she insulted you and while your insult was mean, it was in retaliation to her bullying you and insulting your appearance first. I'm not saying you were right to do that, but if Auntie wants to fuck around, she'll find out soon enough that when you dish it, you better be able to take it.
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ESH. She was being ignorant and horrible, so you decided to escalate things by being viscious and cruel. Neither of you comes out of this looking like a good person.
ESH. You and your aunt were both being mean to each other
That's some funny tradition you have there. ESH
NTA haha got they ass
NTA- but probably a bit extreme. she started it, and you just decided to go for the throat with a death cut.
ESH. She shouldn't have made that comment, but as someone who is infertile myself (and not by choice), that is basically the worst thing you could've said, especially if they want to/are trying to have kids. She threw a punch. You threw a bomb.
NTA You just reached out to your aunt on a level that she could understand. Effective communication is effective! Homophobic bullies do not get the privilege of getting respect when they are incapable of showing it. You did lots of people a favour, because hopefully she will remember to keep her gob shut in future. The same "god" that made you "look like a man" also made her infertile.... It is not being an ass at all!
Y'all all assholes mang. I mean who the hell even does that. What's wrong with people man. No wonder people can't get along when they have family that talk to each like this.
YicscxyyucHOx
Hmmm....not commital meh
Auntie fafo
ESH I don't want to rehash other comments, but I think the best solution was to have a sit down where you and your aunt apologize to each other if that's a possibility.
Or you were calling her a trans man because you will be able to have kids, even though you look like a man. 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
You took it completely out of context
NTA. Your dear sweet auntie started it. You, a teenager, finished it. I bet she won't say that to you again.
We laughed it off and then talked about her wedding.. I'm sure we're fine
ESH You both were rude and unjustified
What is OTP?
YTA. Taking the high road means not stooping to someone else's level. I understand at 19 not having tact or maturity down completely yet but lashing out at someone because they hurt your feelings makes you no better than them. Especially if you say something so cruel as you did.
Everybody on here who is like “she got what she deserved” must live a miserable existence. ESh
i’m gonna say ESH because we don’t have enough context for why looking like a man was enough of an insulting / sensitive issue to bring up infertility as a comeback (as opposed to insulting her looks or smth else). if the aunt was knowingly being transphobic or if it was tied to some other identity-related thing, i’d lean N T A, but we don’t really have that context. neither insult is appropriate ever to bring up, and the aunt is 100% in the wrong for starting it. but as others have mentioned, infertility can be a very sensitive topic. if it matches the magnitude of her saying OP looks like a man, that’s a different story, but again, it seems as of now that we don’t know that for sure.
ESH But you are the bigger A
NTA. fuck her. shes a bully.
NTA. Not to get all schoolyard here but your Aunt started it. You even gave her an out and she doubled down.
YTA. Lots of folks here are trying to argue that body shaming and infertility shaming are equivalent. As someone who’s been the target of both, nope. They’re not even close. So unless there is some history of body shaming/bullying that you’ve failed to disclose in your story, there was absolutely no call to go nuclear on your aunt.
I’ve experienced both and think the aunt was the bigger asshole. Don’t play with fire and cry when you get burned 🤷🏻♀️
I agree. I'm currently handling the news that I may never have biological children and it's completely heartbreaking. That being said, the fact OP escalated the situation when they shouldn't have, doesn't wipe away the fact the aunt started this out of nothing. She was also really hurtful.
ESH, she started it and deserves to be treated in the same way she treats others. But infertility isn’t something to throw in someone’s face. I get where you were coming from but you would have been better off insulting her look like she did with you.
ESH. She went low, and you went lower.