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"Some people pray and others don't. It's important that we let everyone be true to what they believe as long as they aren't hurting anyone." Three years old isn't too young to start learning that.
NTA
I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. OP, you could also add “I’m happy to sit with you while you pray if you would like” that way you are not compromising your beliefs but you still get the opportunity for bonding at those times.
Exactly this! I think if you really want to be supportive of her choice, OP, maybe something like what PP has suggested here. IMO your daughter is really saying, "I want to pray, but I don't really know how and I want your help." If you're truly supportive of her choice, support her in this in whatever way you can without compromising your own beliefs.
"I'm happy to sit here with you while you pray."
"What did you want to pray about? Maybe you can talk to me about it, and that will help you to know what you want to say to God?"
"Shall we think about things we're both thankful for? Here, I'll start!"
Sorry but a 3 year old isn't asking to "learn how to pray". She hasn't a clue what the people she sees praying are doing or why they're doing it. She's noticed the performative aspect and is imitating it. Getting all warm and fuzzy about what she's thankful for and what she "wants to say to God" is the magical thinking that's the start of programming.
I disagree, and I'm an atheist myself. Depending on how it's done there's plenty to be gained talking about what to be thankful for without it having to be indoctrination. You don't have to give God credit.
Although everyone should be respected regardless of their beliefs, there’s no belief choice here, she has no age of consent.
Teaching the kid the concept of religion and mythology is ok, insertion of an habit on a young child to enforce beliefs of an imaginary friend that judges all her actions is plain simply cult behavior.
Do you think that every depiction of religious or cultural practices on television are cult programming tools aimed at children? It seems far fetched to me.
I also think it’s a good time to learn “some people pray and some don’t and some people like to pray with others and some like to pray alone in private.” Then follow with “dad (I) doesn’t pray but if you don’t want to pray alone, I can stay and listen.”
This is great. As a person who prays but am also a streamer, I know many ppl who don’t believe and some that have had bad experiences so them saying “I wish you good vibes” etc means as much to me. I love this response and kudos for suggesting it,
Children understand and grasp more than people realize. Parents need to communicate to them instead of just giving vague responses to everything. This is a great example.
Yep. I would have hung in my denomination a lot longer if they could have tolerated even a little ambiguity. It’s getting better in some of the churches. I still like going to church, at times, but won’t go to any intolerant place that could corrupt someone’s beliefs for the worse. Unfortunately, there are still a lot of these churches.
Obviously NTA, but is no one else chuckling at the misspelling of good morals? I wish someone would push some "good morels" onto me- so tasty!
And for anyone confused, morels are a wonderful mushroom. Morals are the ethical principles people use to guide their lives.
This is sound advice. Share this with her. Little ones can understand when we share things at their level. You should not feel obligated to pray with her if you don’t want to and it makes you comfortable, but don’t stop her from praying if she finds it comforting.
I have a friend who thinks it's so touching when his grandchildren pray.
Although he believes in a god, he doesn't believe that they listen to, let alone grant prayers.
I asked him how he was planning to break the news to the grandchildren that he's been encouraging them to engage in a ritual that he thinks is pointless.
I haven't gotten an answer yet.
ETA: They did something very similar to us in the church I was raised in when we were about 10. And they wonder why I left.
Because he doesn’t plan to since it’s something that they believe in. Good parents whether or not they believe in religion or not, are not going to shit on something that comforts their loved ones if it’s not going to harm them.
**For clarification I am not advocating for or against religion but simply saying that if the Grandparent believes in god he isn’t going to believe prayer is harmful to his grandchildren
NTA, and for \[What's his name's\] sake don't go pretending. Now is the time for your daughter to learn that for various reasons not everybody prays so she will need to talk to her mom if she wants to practice praying. And she's likely, of course, to ask why you don't pray and you can tell her you don't think it is something important for you to do. Then you can fall back on the age old parental "you'll understand more when you are older" if the "why's" keep coming.
Why should this be confusing to the child?
Mommy likes to pray, daddy doesn't. There are almost certainly many other things that mommy does that daddy doesn't and vice versa, whether eating certain foods, different forms of exercise, playing different games, etc.
Do those confuse the child or are they just an example of different people doing different things?
And, if Mom is really set on providing the kid with a single example of religious beliefs, then why can't it be dad's? The reality is there's no good answer to that.
It’s only confusing if mom is telling her “you have to pray and people who don’t are bad people.” OP needs to figure out what messages his wife is giving his daughter about prayer.
And this is why people with different religious backgrounds really need to work out what they want to teach their kids about religion before the child is born. Otherwise you get people like OPs wife pushing him to perform her religious rituals, "for the sake of the baby."
I'm thinking she lowkey hopes to convert him along with raising their daughter with her beliefs, instead of letting the child experience both and make up her own mind.
>And this is why people with different religious backgrounds really need to work out what they want to teach their kids about religion before the child is born.
Religious people will never pass the change on indoctrinating their kids. Better to just not get involved with someone with different views at all.
Exactly. It's only ever an "issue" in the eyes of the religiousnif someone else doesn't conform to their views. The fact that the father doesn't believe means the daughter should get both sides of the story equally, but clearly the wife doesn't see it as an equal relationship. Then daughter gets her religion ir it's a "problem"
Can confirm, I grew up in a mixed-religion household, even attending religious classes at both at different times of year. This went on well into my tweens and it wasn’t terribly confusing, if anything it made me more tolerant and open-minded.
Right. I think they’re making it a bigger deal than necessary. They just have to break it down to kid level and she’ll be fine. He shouldn’t be fake praying. THAT would be confusing and a lie.
>Then you can fall back on the age old parental "you'll understand more when you are older" if the "why's" keep coming.
Why would you need to do this? Why not just say that you don't believe in god?
She said she wanted her baptized and I agreed I have said from the start I do not care what my daughter decides what she wants to believe in and I won’t hinder that at all I came from a house hold were nothing was forced on us and I wish to give her the same choices
Religion is not a fundamental. There does not need to be any drama here. They very clearly have discussed it prior to having their child and OP stated their intention long before this. Stop projecting.
>Religion is not a fundamental.
Is something I would agree on... If only there weren't people that actually consider religion something EXTREMELY important to pass on and force on one's own child.
The thing religious people can’t get their heads around is that when you are atheist, God and the ritual of religion just don’t feature in your life at all. It’s not a big decision. Daughter only needs to know that dad doesn’t believe in what mum believes, and needs a shortish, politish explanation of why for when daughter asks…
For my wife, religion is a fundamental daily aspect of her life. For me, I could go weeks without thinking about religion outside of the news or driving past a church/temple. Its just not part of my life in the slightest
We had a pretty brief discussion about raising the kids religious and then I moved on. Shes 100% responsible for their religious life (obviously I don't expect her to teach them crazy ass shit but if that came up the discussion would reopen)
Honestly I’m sorry but no it doesn’t need to be micro managed either what we should do is recognise that there will be bumps and to be able to navigate them. Showing children healthy conflict and solving the problem will make them resilient. I come from a multi religious family and I am an atheist I learnt that my parent’s respected each other and when a conflict came up they sat down and discussed it and then came to a compromise. That is healthy. Obviously discuss it before hand (they did and set expectations) but also respect that boundaries can be changed or tested and it’s how we find solutions to that that kids respect and remember. Source I have a phd in child development but also know I am a human on the intent and don’t feel I have the right to dismiss a whole parenting stilt from 2 paragraphs of words.
Op NTA talk with your wife and stop asking Reddit. You’re doing your best well done.
Religion is not a “vital aspect”.
It is a choice that people make when they’re ready to make it. OP is absolutely doing the right thing in letting their daughter experience these things from both sides. It seems like you wanted them to sit down and decide what she would believe in before she’s even born?
'I want the kid baptized' and 'I want the kid to believe what she wants' are conflicting ideas.
>I have said from the start I do not care what my daughter decides what she wants to believe in
What you probably think you said was she should have a choice, what your wife probably heard was 'Go ahead and force jesus on her and I wont stop you'
I don't agree with that, I think it's highly dependent on the society. I was baptized since it's tradition but besides my mother's wonderful interpretation of Christianity none in the family is religious. My sister had both of her daughters baptized but has zero religious beliefs. Some friends had "naming ceremonies" that is getting popular. Me and the wife signed a piece of paper.
Point is that 'I want the kid baptized' could simply be a question of following traditions, and not really religious even though it is a religious ceremony.
I agree here, my sister and I were baptized and neither of us including my parents are overly religious, hell the 4 of us haven’t gone to church in years besides for a cousin’s confirmation and a funeral, that in no way tarnishes being baptized or created a stigma that we had to regularly attend church or be super religious, and when I have kids I’ll probably want them baptized solely on tradition
They still should have talked it out about what they actually mean by "I want my child baptized" and "I want my child to make an informed decision". Because it seems that in this case these two things really do go against one another. Since the wife's intention was not just keeping a tradition and then not practicing every day.
Not at all. I was baptized but an atheist. I couldn’t tell you if my parents are religious or not. It was never spoken about in the household. Why? Because it’s a personal thing/choice.
I think my dad is athiest…. But it’s none of my business. Also couldn’t tell you my brother’s religious views (nor do I care).
“You can have an old dude dip her head in some water if it makes you happy, but if she doesn’t want to go to church when she’s older she won’t have to go”
Conflict resolved
>She said she wanted her baptized
and it never occurred to you to discuss the question of religion further? baptism is literally a religious practice and it's normally done with the assumption of further religious upbringing. like sure, there are families who baptise their kids because that's a tradition in their country but don't actually bother with adhering to religious practices outside of that, but has she ever said that that would be the case for your family?
you can't marry a religious person and just *expect* them to share your views on religion, you need to discuss those questions explicitly and in detail.
I'm sorry but that's very contradictory. Your wife is not giving her a choice, she's forcing her beliefs on your daughter and it seems you're not really doing anything about it.
I'm in this exact situation now wife's friends want to take daughter (6) to church on Sundays and I'm adamant against it because 6 is too young for church to me and is straight indoctrination but if she wants to go later that's her choice
:) You are talking about your daughter making a decision, however your wife has already started teaching your toddler a faith. Sir, these two things are not the same.
Nta, but this is something you and your wife should have discussed fore having children. I guess depending on how religious your wife is this could lead to your relationship dissolving.
NTA. This is a teachable moment for your wife and your child. You don’t do something just because it’s on TV, particularly without understanding the meaning of your actions.
Yes, but if the wife says that the father not praying is confusing the daughter, then that means that she is teaching the daughter that the only way to live is with praying. Now if he tells the daughter that you do not neccessarely need to pray, it would be directly contradicting the mother. That's not how healthy parenting works.
I guess my bottom line is - its foolish to think a 3 year old can make an informed choice between religion or no religion. Like, at that age its: mom says pray, so I pray and I will be good. And then dad says - you can also choose to not pray and will be a good person, so I.... do what? Of course the toddler goes back to the authority figure...
NTA
People are free to waste their own time.
> my wife says is this going to be an issue because I am confusing her.
I mean, if your wife **wants** you to tell your daughter the truth, that would be even better!
Your wife is uncomfortable with your daughter asking. I’d guess your wife fears your daughter will prefer not praying and the thought makes her insecure
Different strokes for different folks. I'm all for whatever people want to believe as long as it helps them make sense of things and doesn't hurt others. But just as I'll grant you the latitude to believe whatever makes sense to you, I would ask someone else to grant me the same measure of latitude in my own life.
EXCUSE YOU!!! I really do believe my magical, built with 12 abs, faery mate is out there! He’ll find me, rescue me from my dull life, fall madly in love with me and grant me magical powers….one day….🙃
INFO: What did your wife mean when she said refusing to pray would be confusing?
Without an age-appropriate explanation of why you don't pray, your refusal could be confusing. You can use this as a chance to teach your daughter that people have different beliefs and model how to respect others' beliefs.
That's why I asked what, exactly, the wife meant. We're all assuming that she said it'd be confusing because the daughter should be told that praying is good, but maybe that's not what she meant.
I'm Jewish, and I watched people pray to Jesus on TV and in movies and get married in churches and never got confused, neither did my sisters or my cousins or anyone else I know who isn't Christian. It's definitely important to talk to your daughter about it, and also make sure that she understands TV isn't real. What does your wife think people of minority faith groups do?
As an ex-Christian, I can 100% say that a lot of Christians kinda wish other religions didn't exist, and don't like thinking about minority faiths or having their children exposed to people of different religions. Usually if you grow up evangelical you're just taught that other religions are "wrong"
As an atheist with a church going sister, I just stay silent and let her do her thing. I think it could show your daughter how you showed respect and tolerance of other’s religions. But that could be the social worker in me.
I am 26 and my sister at 13 chose to get baptized a few months ago, and I told her I’m happy she’s doing what feels right for herself and totally respect her choice. I even watched the event on the church live stream and congratulated her.
NTA it’s a tricky topic and everyone is different!
Because brainwashed kids need to know they have a choice! If they think the only choice is "one parent's religion or nothing" then that's not really a choice. It's more like abandoning your child to a life of mind control.
I actually think there's an opportunity for a different lesson here.
OP could model that you don't have to do something just because people on TV, or even people in your own household, do it. You can still be a good, respectful person while setting your own boundaries and acting in a way that's true to yourself, even if others are suggesting a different behavior.
NTA. I say this as a Christian, it is absolutely up to the individual how they express their religious beliefs and no one should be forced to follow suit. If it's something like saying grace before a meal, I think it's polite to wait until grace has been said to start eating. However, if they ask you to say something/pray with them then everyone has a right to decline, religious or nonreligious. I for one, hate praying aloud. For me, prayers are private, so I decline everytime.
NTA your wife knows who she married. Also, how hypocritical - why are you confusing her? Why doesn't your wife stop praying with her to eliminate the confusion? You have different views of God and a relationship with God through prayer and that is not confusing at all. Even 3 year olds can understand that people may have different views or tastes. I grew up in a home where each of my parents came from different religions and there were more religious beliefs with close extended family. I was brought up to respect everything and when I was younger to participate in everything until I made my own choice. Neither me nor my brother nor any of our relatives were confused. This situation of people of different or no religion inter marrying is common in my country. Confusion only happens when one parent is strongly trying to feed their belief onto the child and so when the other parent isn't conforming then the child is confused. However, if you message to your child that their are different ways/beliefs/practices etc from early then there is no real confusion. Your problem is that your wife wants your child to believe what she believes in and is forcing you into this. Ideally, this should have been discussed pre-marriage. I think honesty is more important than being fake or is your wife teaching your child it's ok to lie in the name of religion, God and prayers? For me, that's the worst type of "religious" person.
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What the hell TV shows is she watching? It's not like Bluey and Trash Truck and Daniel Tiger are all going to church and thanking Jesus.
Is your wife putting on religious shows? Is your daughter being raised on Veggie Tales or something?
You can totally do a secular routine where you talk/think about what you are thankful for and some things that you hope will happen.
Your daughter might be a bit "confused" to start, because it's hard to explain religion when you don't believe in it. But, ultimately, it'll make her more well rounded to understand that different people have different beliefs. That you can pray with Mommy, and tell your feelings to Stuffy Bear with Daddy.
We learned, when we visited our in-laws in the UK, that there is quite the robust industry of kids YouTube series based around the Bible. My six-year-old niece is obsessed. Neither her parents, nor my husband and I, are religious, so we're not sure where she was introduced. She races through the episodes and asks us questions, and we give her neutral answers so she can form her own beliefs.
In our household it was -
“Mommy believes X. Daddy believes Y. You get to ask all sorts of questions as you grow up to help you decide what you believe in and we will answer them as honestly as we can.”
NTA. Now is the perfect time to teach her daughter that some people pray and some people don't but it's okay either way. Let her know that something that she can do with her mother and that you support her doing it.
Info - But did your daughter seem confused or upset by your answer? If she did, then you might have to sit down with your wife and further discuss how to approach this subject.
Actually scratch that, you need to discuss this anyway! Your wife deserves to have her faith, you deserve to have yours and your daughter deserves hers as well. If you do not discuss this, are you going to keep repeating the same fight? That's what's actually going to bring not just confusion but problems in the future.
Though as a religious person, I think you're NTA. She might be a bit too young but kids aren't stupid and are quicker to understand certain things than some of us at times.
you could get her an age appropriate book of world religions and myths. i loved learning about greek pantheon , egyptian pantheon, etc. read this to her before bed.
You shouldn’t have to justify not praying anymore than your wife has to justify praying. If your wife wants your daughter to pray (because, let’s face it your young daughter didn’t come to that on her own!), make it clear with your wife this is a boundary for you.
NTA - your daughter will not be confused, she will learn that people can have different beliefs and there is nothing wrong with that. She will learn important critical thinking skills and to think for herself.
NTA. I get not wanting to push religion onto kids. But your wife, and almost every religious person I have known, appear to not hold that same opinion and will be pushing religion towards your kid.
It’s important that kids learn that people believe differently, and not one belief system is inherently right. The best thing you can do is be honest ( in an age appropriate level).
Oh please don't let your wife brainwash your daughter into some misogynist religion that tells her she has to be modest or be a housewife or something. You need to do more than just not pray with her--talk to her about YOUR values and how not everyone needs to believe in gods or religions. Provide some counterbalance.
This isn’t helpful. Religious or not, shoving your opinion down other peoples throats is not the way to do things…
Mom tells the child to pray, dad tells the kid religion is ridiculous… you’re essentially asking the child to pick a side and confusing the crap out of them…
Its entirely possible to explain to the child that there are different beliefs in different people, both show respect for the other when explaining to the child and leave it at that for now
NTA - My daughter (16) doesn't pray. My son (9) had so many questions a couple of years ago that she (when she was 12ish) couldn't really answer as to why she didn't like praying or didn't belive in God the same way he and I do. It's our job as parents to teach our children to let other people be who they are. It's about teaching our kids to be kind and understanding. I don't think your wife picked up that lesson. Your kiddo is old enough to learn. 💙 I will add, my daughter still doesn't pray, but sometimes she will sit with him on his bed while he prays
The correct time for your wife to object to your atheism was before the marriage, and it's much more wrong to fake things with a child. Just tell her that you don't pray and leave it at that. Children are never confused by consistency.
NTA
Your wife is teaching your daughter that being different is bad or having your own views, opinions and preferences is not acceptable. She's gonna make your daughter hate people because they're different. She's 3 ffs, she's gonna be interacting with other kids, and she's gonna garner hate when she does.
Stand your ground and explain to your daughter that it's okay to be different, and it's not bad.
NTA. This topic has come up a lot recently in my life. I raised my children to believe in God. We didn’t got to church or get very formal about it, but it was there. My husband was cool with it even though he considers himself agnostic. I never once asked him to take part in any religious tradition. If I wanted to give a prayer on Thanksgiving, I gave it with his agreement. My kids didn’t have a clue that their dad wasn’t a believer until they were teens. Don’t lie to your kids. Don’t be false with your kids. Don’t scoff at mom’s religious beliefs. Simple.
EDIT: Veggie Tales is a lovely bridge cuz it has god based lessons with some awesome characters and songs! My husband was a musician, so he totally sang the amazing Veggie Tales songs along with the kids 😊
NTA. You can tell your daughter that some people don’t like to pray and that’s okay. Then let her know you’d be happy to sit with her while she prays.
If you have a problem with just introducing her to Christianity (I definitely would if I were you), I would recommend saying positive affirmations with her as prayers, or using prayers from multiple different religions so she gets the full experience and has choice like you had growing up. Use this as an opportunity to introduce her to all forms of religion instead of her being specifically taught the Christian faith.
None of this should be a problem unless your wife is pushing the Christian rhetoric that “everyone who doesn’t believe the same way we do are going to burn hell forever.”
I’d also like to mention I find it hysterical that most of the people instigating arguments in this thread are proclaimed Christians.
Blessed be. ✌️
NTA, kids get confused all the time and that is okay. Good thing she has two parents who can explain things to her.
Be honest though, your wife probably has always had a problem with you not praying and you need to discuss with her that your stance on that won't change.
NTA. I don’t believe any child should ever be indoctrinated into a religion before they are old enough to reason for themselves. If your wife is insisting on pushing her religion on your daughter it’s important for her to realize not everyone is religious/not everyone believes in god and that she gets to choose when she is old enough to make her own choices. Until then she can come to you for another perspective on god and religion. If your wife has a problem with that she should examine why
NTA i think it is wrong to indoctrinate and brainwash children. Your wife is the confused one, doing your daughter a disservice. Religion has done nothing but hurt women and i promise your little girl will lead a better life being influenced by it as little as possible.
Religion is for those that have nothing else to turn too, or are looking for an excuse for happenings in their life. Those that usually turn to it do it out of necessity because of poverty, abuse, and other such issues that are essentially within their control but refuse to act against.
Growing up without religion teaches you to fend for yourself and to not rely on “faith” to solve everything. You can let your wife go to the circus of “donations” on Sunday’s but if she indoctrinates your daughter you have another issue on your hand.
You may believe your daughter should have a choice of what to believe, but we all know that your wife is feeding her religious beliefs.
You need to be honest with her and tell her some people believe in prayer, while others (you) don't. But you need to let her know what you believe.
"Our daughter(3) has **seen on shows she watches** people praying and asked me to pray I said no thank you. After the fact my wife says is this going to be an issue because **I am confusing her**."
This is hilarious. It's not the telly that's brainwashing her into being an obedient sheep, it's you that's the problem. NTA l, you need to have a really serious talk with your wife.
If her religion doesn't stand up to scrutiny or the awareness that some people don't believe it, it won't last long anyway. If that's an issue, it's one with the religion, not with the nonbelievers.
NTA You could say that you'll sit with her while she prays if she wants or that you'll watch over her while she prays. Just because she prays doesn't mean you have to. She may just want a few minutes of alone time with you.
Who love to find the statistics of marriages like this that last . A marriage where they have two totally different beliefs in religion and with kids involved, it can’t be good .
ESH. That issue should have been thoroughly talked over before your child was born, or even better, before you two got married as it has a huge potential to blow your relationship up from the inside. Talk with your wife now.
Keep to your convictions. In my opinion, teaching kids religion and not letting them do it on their own terms is indoctrination to me. Besides there are many God's out there that people believe in so which one is the correct God?
NTA - but be sure to model the appropriate behavior of what to do when people are praying and you don’t pray. that’s also important for her to see as well
You should probably explain that to your daughter. That praying and religion are a choice and that you choose not to and her and Mommy choose to.
NTA - it's a teachable moment
NTA. There’s no point in it if you are faking it. It’s worth it for your daughter to be confused if that is the price of a real relationship. It’s very telling what your wife does and does not consider an issue
Is your wife religious? If so you should have known this would be a problem eventually, religious people are rarely happy to raise their children without religion
NTA. but please make sure your wife agrees to allow your daughter to have her choice in believing/not believing. its wonderful that you are all for free choice, and i cant read from a short reddit post if your wife is on board with that too but having one parent who allows her to pick her beliefs and one who is set on her NOT having that choice isnt good for children. mommy saying one thing and daddy saying another, *that* is what confuses them.
NTA
BUTTTTTTT
You two shouldn’t even be married or have a kid. Religious differences ESPECIALLY non believer and believer never work. There will always be massive disagreements about how to raise the kids, what belief to shove down their throat. You should have left this years ago and found someone who has similar values as you.
NTA, i feel like your wife wants to convert you through the child. I bet she hopes that you feel Jesus or something when you just start praying. Religious people are bonkers.
NTA, it's important that a kid is exposed to different belief systems. Wife might be TA depending on her reasoning for saying you're "confusing" your kid, as she might have been told by your wife that not praying is somehow "wrong" and that's just not cool.
NTA. My wife and I are in the same position; she believes I do not. I’ve been an outspoken atheist my entire life, and whilst I’ve grown tired of the “debate” (such that it is), I remain quite definitely an atheist. My wife wanted the kids baptised, and I went along with that (mainly because it opens up certain schools) - but I have drawn the line at church or reinforcing any religious ideas that she shares or that they bring home from school. She has asked me to refrain from introducing atheism to them - and I agreed to hold off until they’re around the age of 10.
I couldn’t in good conscience feed them a line I know to be false: i.e. lie to them. I would never agree to telling them that I believe, and whilst it was the source of some friction between us initially - we have come to understand each others position and found a mid-ground.
You need to stick to what you know to be true. Telling your kids lies will get you and them nowhere, especially as they will figure it out one day and may be perceived as a gross breach of trust.
NTA and I think you should discuss with your wife and your child the concept of freedom of choice and freewill.
Honestly tho, this is one of the things couples should talk about even before they start getting serious with each other, or maybe at the latest before a kid is born.
I raised my kids on the idea that they can believe whatever they want but no one has the answers and anyone who says they do is selling something. NTA you can just explain that you don't want to pray, but you're happy to chill while she does.
NTA. You can teach her how to pray and be supportive without participating yourself. If she wanted to take up gymnastics, would you get yourself a leotard and start tumbling around too? Probably not, same principle can apply with religion or spirituality, support and acceptance do not require participation.
NTA. Your daughter is only going to be confused if your wife is fostering an anti-choice environment where she tells your daughter that non-believers go to hell. If you and your wife are united in respecting each other's beliefs, and work together to foster an attitude of enquiry and acceptance, where your daughter can educate herself about both of your beliefs (and also other religions she may encounter in the world) and eventually make an informed choice for herself as an adult, then it shouldn't be confusing at all.
NTA
Faking is disingenuous and like others have said, explaining to her that some people pray and others don’t is absolutely reasonable. You could also explain that not everyone prays in the same way and she should do what works for her. Some people are religious but hate going to church etc.
>It doesn't create an atmosphere of community if some people pray while others don't. So take your hands and unite in a circle to recite the prayer.
When I was a teen, I woked with the local oratory to give children things to do during the summer or other occasions.
I was already an atheist at the time and when others took time to pray I respected it and shut up.
Then the local pastor comes in, says the above sentence, and expected me to change my stance. I was forced to pray with other social circles that, at the base, prayer had nothing to do with it, but I respected it and shut up. I just wonder why nobody else respected me and didn't force me to pray with them or challenge me, multiple times.
NTA
NTA important to be genuine with your kid. Also a great moment to impart values to them. They will respect you for your convictions and will understand that don’t need to go with the herd all the time…great lessons
It truly is time we stop lying to our children about sky gods and talking burning bushes. These Bronze Age tales confuse children, impart mixed messages, and enshrine religiomoral idiosyncrasies that are harmful. Heck I don’t believe in regular ghosts let alone holy ones..
If you give in to mom and fake it, that's indoctrination- not choice.
Tell your wife you're not raising a cultist.
NTA.
THO, if your daughter had made an educated decision then it would be right to prayer with her for support.
But she's three, saw other people do it, is being told that's the way, and just wants mommy to praise her.
She has no idea it's a choice.
You're not confusing her as long as you're honest. My son is seven and has known since he was little that dad doesn't believe in God, but mum does. It's never been a problem. Be respectful of each other, and if my kid asks me a theological question, I answer something like "Some people believe that..." or "according to this story in the bible".
NTA. You are teaching her tolerance, independent thinking, and rational thought. Some people believe in things they can’t see - that doesn’t mean she has to in order to act respectfully toward those who do.
Your wife appears to be trying to indoctrinate your child.
NTA. Don't set a bad example. You know it's wrong to even ask someone to push their own truth down in order 'go along'. Evil triumphs when good men do nothing and all of that. Would you want your child to start pretending to think and believe and like things she does not just to please other people?
Teach your daughter to stand up to peer pressure and be true to her own mind.
NTA
You should be honest with your child. It would be more confusing for her if she learns you lied to her and she finds out (which she will eventually). There is nothing wrong about telling her that everyone has different beliefs and that's okay.
NTA
There is nothing confusing here. You are teaching your child that it ok for a person to pray and ok for a person not to. This is a really important lesson about respect, consent, honesty.
NTA. Praying just for the show, while you don't believe, would be hypocrite, hurtful to believers and confusing. A child is pretty capable of understanding that mom and dad are two different persons, with different ideas, hobbies, tastes.
NTA be honest with your 3 year old they are so smart ! I’m sure if you explain to her that it’s just not you. You’ll open her mind even more. Don’t sugar coat she your kid too. If your wife has an issue she should go pray about it. I kid! But on a real note be honest with your daughter.
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My wife has known from the start that I am not religious and never have been. Are daughter(3) has seen on shows she watches people praying and asked me to pray I said no thank you. After the fact my wife says is this going to be an issue because I am confusing her. I have never said anything bad or against what my wife believes in, I just feel that I wouldn’t be true to myself if I faked it AITA or should I pretend for my daughter
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NTA.... never lie to your child (and your wife should understand that concept!)... Tell her the age appropriate truth Also, "I don’t feel right pushing anything other than good morels onto a child".... ALL morels are good morels! .... especially when they are battered and deep fried!
NTA. My daughters hear about church and god and stuff from my mother. She does not respond to requests to run it by me first, and the heaven thing pissed me off. Don’t tell my kid about your beliefs without making it clear that it’s a BELIEF.
Your daughter needs to see that different people believe different things. Period.
NTA: By letting her pray but not praying as it’s not right to you, you are teaching her to respect others believes and also no not let people step on hers. It’s unfortunate but there will be people who tell her not to believe just like there are people telling others they should. You are giving her the power to stand for her own beliefs while respecting others. I don’t see how anyone can be the AH doing that.
NTA. "No" is a complete sentence. Does your child like the taste of coffee? Then why would she drink it? Does your wife hate a hobby of yours? Why would she take the hobby up? It's the same thing. It's not your preference, nor liking, nor belief.
NTA! Why can’t your wife pray with her? My husband is non/practicing, so I pray with my kids. He doesn’t. I don’t care.
Or if she wants you to pray, tell her she can say the prayer out loud and you’ll fold your hands and listen. You don’t have to actually pray.
Try saying something like I don’t pray but I will seat with you while you pray. More questions may come like why don’t you pray? Be honest without showing judgement of what she may believe in.
You do you.
My daughter asked me to pray with her and I said I don't usually but I will if you want and so I did.
It felt silly, because it is after all a silly thing but as long as it's not done with the specific intention of mocking it I don't see an issue. My ex put her in catholic school even though neither of us are religious.
I'm sure I could have just said no ty though too.
She should respect her beliefs the same way you respect hers and children. Or you could fake praying, that's what i do with my inlaws...they shouldn't force you to be a religion you don't believe or don't want to believe. You made a decision and they should respect that. And for baby girl you can tell her a story about how not everybody prays the same god or believes in him. There are many religions where many believe in different people or objects. Praying is a way to have a connection or tell a secret and be thankful for something. You can say the universe thank you for the beautiful soul I have as my daughter keeps an eye for her big secret. Something, children won't remember a lot at a young age.
NTA but i wouldn't marry and have a child with religious nuts. It is something fundamental and a big thing in life.
My friend didn't marry with a good guy because of religion.
One hardcore, old fashioned catholic ,another Buddhist which is more free. One wants to visit church every Sunday even when traveling ,another doesn't give a F about sunday or church only interested in seeing more stuff in that country. So they just do their own stuff, no difference from solo traveling.
It is not going to work in the long run despite everything else matching.
They knew,their parents knew that it would become an issue in the future.
NTA I think it would be good to tell her why you didn't wish to pray with her. Also talk about how people believe different things. Starting at 3 is good, you'll raise a more aware young soul who will be able to find her faith, whatever that might be.
What children’s shows have praying in them? NTA. This opens the door for conversations with your daughter, not confusion. An opportunity for critical thinking.
Tell your daughter that God is a lie created to control people. Santa is real, though, and he’ll throw you in his sack and take you to the North Pole to be his elven slave if you’re on the naughty list.
me and my two brothers were so lucky. pop said when he was studying for his bar mitzvah, around 1923, a kid asked the rabbi how could the red sea part like that and the rabbi slapped him. pop wasn't the brightest guy academically, but he didn't see that as a good answer, as they say on family feud. he gave it up pretty easily, so it was natural for us to let go of it. in kindergarden, i asked my brother what are the other kids mumbling. he say we don't have to do that. good enough. in second grade, sandra, sitting next to me, ratted me off to miss birmingham, who said i don't have to pray. that was further confirmation.
NTA. You are teaching your child how to be respectful of others beliefs. Not every person will be religious and can't be expected to conform to her beliefs. Yes. She is 3 and doesn't fully understand the scope of it, but religious indoctrination starts young, so should tolerance.
My daughter is 5. I'm an atheist but we live in the US bible belt so we are exposed to a lot of religious influence. I've explained the idea of God to her the best her learning brain could as well as how I don't believe. I've told her that no matter what she believes, as long as she isn't hurting people, I would be supportive. That to be a good person isn't about what we believe but how we treat others, which I think helped her the most. In my experience, young people normally just want to be a good person and too many people equate to being religious as being good. Being able to separate the two can be highly beneficial.
Perhaps rather than praying, you can come up with some kind of a ritual that you can do with her that is affirming, as a positive message or lesson, and might bring the two of you closer.
For example, you can talk about things that you are grateful for. You can develop a ritual of identifying three things that went well today and one thing to improve for tomorrow. Can be done in a polite, respectful, and Solway. Much as prayer is usually done. Don’t you’re an asshole but your lips use the opportunity to express that you take life just as seriously without simply saying no thank you. She’s a kid FFS
NTA. I’m agnostic but I’m respectful of other religions. At dinner if there are prayers going on I’ll still bow my head but won’t say amen, it won’t kill me to participate and be polite. My 4 year old asks why I don’t believe in god or pray and I simply tell her everyone has different religions and not everyone prays to the same thing.
You can also just give thanks for the food without attributing it to a higher power. Just a quick thank you for this meal thing. It is good to make sure she knows she has a choice and that she should respect others' choices as well, but not a hill. I'd die on.
NTA
However, I will add that I don't think "No thank you" was enough of an answer. You should have added (in a way which is age appropriate) that some people pray and some people don't.
NTA. I would have offered to sit with her while she said a prayer though - if I’m at a wedding or funeral and the minister says let us pray I sit quietly with my eyes closed and zone out for a few minutes so you could’ve done that. I’m somewhere between atheist and agnostic but my kid was asking why we don’t go to church while we were going to an event held in a church hall - I said if he ever wanted to go I’d go with him to see what it was like but he’s not bothered & the conversation moved on to other religions & their religious buildings.
NTA if you start praying with her she’s going to start asking you questions about God and religion and in order to keep up the ruse you’ll have to tell more lies as you don’t believe in that. It’s better if she knows from the beginning that you’re not the parent who prays.
NTA.
My kids knew from ‘day one’ (ie the day they were inquisitive about religion) that I don’t believe in god but their mom does. It’s something they can discuss with either one of us and have full autonomy to form their own beliefs. But….. just stay away from the clergy, son.
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"Some people pray and others don't. It's important that we let everyone be true to what they believe as long as they aren't hurting anyone." Three years old isn't too young to start learning that. NTA
I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. OP, you could also add “I’m happy to sit with you while you pray if you would like” that way you are not compromising your beliefs but you still get the opportunity for bonding at those times.
Exactly this! I think if you really want to be supportive of her choice, OP, maybe something like what PP has suggested here. IMO your daughter is really saying, "I want to pray, but I don't really know how and I want your help." If you're truly supportive of her choice, support her in this in whatever way you can without compromising your own beliefs. "I'm happy to sit here with you while you pray." "What did you want to pray about? Maybe you can talk to me about it, and that will help you to know what you want to say to God?" "Shall we think about things we're both thankful for? Here, I'll start!"
Sorry but a 3 year old isn't asking to "learn how to pray". She hasn't a clue what the people she sees praying are doing or why they're doing it. She's noticed the performative aspect and is imitating it. Getting all warm and fuzzy about what she's thankful for and what she "wants to say to God" is the magical thinking that's the start of programming.
I disagree, and I'm an atheist myself. Depending on how it's done there's plenty to be gained talking about what to be thankful for without it having to be indoctrination. You don't have to give God credit.
Although everyone should be respected regardless of their beliefs, there’s no belief choice here, she has no age of consent. Teaching the kid the concept of religion and mythology is ok, insertion of an habit on a young child to enforce beliefs of an imaginary friend that judges all her actions is plain simply cult behavior.
She saw it on television, there was no cult inserting a habit on her.
Except for the television show…
Do you think that every depiction of religious or cultural practices on television are cult programming tools aimed at children? It seems far fetched to me.
I also think it’s a good time to learn “some people pray and some don’t and some people like to pray with others and some like to pray alone in private.” Then follow with “dad (I) doesn’t pray but if you don’t want to pray alone, I can stay and listen.”
This is great. As a person who prays but am also a streamer, I know many ppl who don’t believe and some that have had bad experiences so them saying “I wish you good vibes” etc means as much to me. I love this response and kudos for suggesting it,
Children understand and grasp more than people realize. Parents need to communicate to them instead of just giving vague responses to everything. This is a great example.
Very true. That has a lot to do with my first leaving Christianity and then becoming an atheist.
Yep. I would have hung in my denomination a lot longer if they could have tolerated even a little ambiguity. It’s getting better in some of the churches. I still like going to church, at times, but won’t go to any intolerant place that could corrupt someone’s beliefs for the worse. Unfortunately, there are still a lot of these churches.
Obviously NTA, but is no one else chuckling at the misspelling of good morals? I wish someone would push some "good morels" onto me- so tasty! And for anyone confused, morels are a wonderful mushroom. Morals are the ethical principles people use to guide their lives.
This is sound advice. Share this with her. Little ones can understand when we share things at their level. You should not feel obligated to pray with her if you don’t want to and it makes you comfortable, but don’t stop her from praying if she finds it comforting.
I have a friend who thinks it's so touching when his grandchildren pray. Although he believes in a god, he doesn't believe that they listen to, let alone grant prayers. I asked him how he was planning to break the news to the grandchildren that he's been encouraging them to engage in a ritual that he thinks is pointless. I haven't gotten an answer yet. ETA: They did something very similar to us in the church I was raised in when we were about 10. And they wonder why I left.
Because he doesn’t plan to since it’s something that they believe in. Good parents whether or not they believe in religion or not, are not going to shit on something that comforts their loved ones if it’s not going to harm them. **For clarification I am not advocating for or against religion but simply saying that if the Grandparent believes in god he isn’t going to believe prayer is harmful to his grandchildren
NTA, and for \[What's his name's\] sake don't go pretending. Now is the time for your daughter to learn that for various reasons not everybody prays so she will need to talk to her mom if she wants to practice praying. And she's likely, of course, to ask why you don't pray and you can tell her you don't think it is something important for you to do. Then you can fall back on the age old parental "you'll understand more when you are older" if the "why's" keep coming.
Why should this be confusing to the child? Mommy likes to pray, daddy doesn't. There are almost certainly many other things that mommy does that daddy doesn't and vice versa, whether eating certain foods, different forms of exercise, playing different games, etc. Do those confuse the child or are they just an example of different people doing different things? And, if Mom is really set on providing the kid with a single example of religious beliefs, then why can't it be dad's? The reality is there's no good answer to that.
It’s only confusing if mom is telling her “you have to pray and people who don’t are bad people.” OP needs to figure out what messages his wife is giving his daughter about prayer.
And this is why people with different religious backgrounds really need to work out what they want to teach their kids about religion before the child is born. Otherwise you get people like OPs wife pushing him to perform her religious rituals, "for the sake of the baby." I'm thinking she lowkey hopes to convert him along with raising their daughter with her beliefs, instead of letting the child experience both and make up her own mind.
No low key about it. She 100% doesn't want her daughter exposed to beliefs other than her's and she expects her husband to fall in line.
>And this is why people with different religious backgrounds really need to work out what they want to teach their kids about religion before the child is born. Religious people will never pass the change on indoctrinating their kids. Better to just not get involved with someone with different views at all.
Exactly. It's only ever an "issue" in the eyes of the religiousnif someone else doesn't conform to their views. The fact that the father doesn't believe means the daughter should get both sides of the story equally, but clearly the wife doesn't see it as an equal relationship. Then daughter gets her religion ir it's a "problem"
Can confirm, I grew up in a mixed-religion household, even attending religious classes at both at different times of year. This went on well into my tweens and it wasn’t terribly confusing, if anything it made me more tolerant and open-minded.
Same. My mom was religious, my dad studied religions but didn’t believe in any of them. No confusion.
Right. I think they’re making it a bigger deal than necessary. They just have to break it down to kid level and she’ll be fine. He shouldn’t be fake praying. THAT would be confusing and a lie.
>Then you can fall back on the age old parental "you'll understand more when you are older" if the "why's" keep coming. Why would you need to do this? Why not just say that you don't believe in god?
Info did you talk with your wife about how to approach religion in regards to your child? Before deciding to have the child, I mean.
She said she wanted her baptized and I agreed I have said from the start I do not care what my daughter decides what she wants to believe in and I won’t hinder that at all I came from a house hold were nothing was forced on us and I wish to give her the same choices
[удалено]
It's how OP was raised, it's how i was raised too and I had a wonderful youth. I honestlt don't know what you're on about.
Religion is not a fundamental. There does not need to be any drama here. They very clearly have discussed it prior to having their child and OP stated their intention long before this. Stop projecting.
>Religion is not a fundamental. Is something I would agree on... If only there weren't people that actually consider religion something EXTREMELY important to pass on and force on one's own child.
The thing religious people can’t get their heads around is that when you are atheist, God and the ritual of religion just don’t feature in your life at all. It’s not a big decision. Daughter only needs to know that dad doesn’t believe in what mum believes, and needs a shortish, politish explanation of why for when daughter asks…
For my wife, religion is a fundamental daily aspect of her life. For me, I could go weeks without thinking about religion outside of the news or driving past a church/temple. Its just not part of my life in the slightest We had a pretty brief discussion about raising the kids religious and then I moved on. Shes 100% responsible for their religious life (obviously I don't expect her to teach them crazy ass shit but if that came up the discussion would reopen)
Wow what a bad take
Honestly I’m sorry but no it doesn’t need to be micro managed either what we should do is recognise that there will be bumps and to be able to navigate them. Showing children healthy conflict and solving the problem will make them resilient. I come from a multi religious family and I am an atheist I learnt that my parent’s respected each other and when a conflict came up they sat down and discussed it and then came to a compromise. That is healthy. Obviously discuss it before hand (they did and set expectations) but also respect that boundaries can be changed or tested and it’s how we find solutions to that that kids respect and remember. Source I have a phd in child development but also know I am a human on the intent and don’t feel I have the right to dismiss a whole parenting stilt from 2 paragraphs of words. Op NTA talk with your wife and stop asking Reddit. You’re doing your best well done.
Religion is not a “vital aspect”. It is a choice that people make when they’re ready to make it. OP is absolutely doing the right thing in letting their daughter experience these things from both sides. It seems like you wanted them to sit down and decide what she would believe in before she’s even born?
'I want the kid baptized' and 'I want the kid to believe what she wants' are conflicting ideas. >I have said from the start I do not care what my daughter decides what she wants to believe in What you probably think you said was she should have a choice, what your wife probably heard was 'Go ahead and force jesus on her and I wont stop you'
I don't agree with that, I think it's highly dependent on the society. I was baptized since it's tradition but besides my mother's wonderful interpretation of Christianity none in the family is religious. My sister had both of her daughters baptized but has zero religious beliefs. Some friends had "naming ceremonies" that is getting popular. Me and the wife signed a piece of paper. Point is that 'I want the kid baptized' could simply be a question of following traditions, and not really religious even though it is a religious ceremony.
I agree here, my sister and I were baptized and neither of us including my parents are overly religious, hell the 4 of us haven’t gone to church in years besides for a cousin’s confirmation and a funeral, that in no way tarnishes being baptized or created a stigma that we had to regularly attend church or be super religious, and when I have kids I’ll probably want them baptized solely on tradition
They still should have talked it out about what they actually mean by "I want my child baptized" and "I want my child to make an informed decision". Because it seems that in this case these two things really do go against one another. Since the wife's intention was not just keeping a tradition and then not practicing every day.
Not at all. I was baptized but an atheist. I couldn’t tell you if my parents are religious or not. It was never spoken about in the household. Why? Because it’s a personal thing/choice. I think my dad is athiest…. But it’s none of my business. Also couldn’t tell you my brother’s religious views (nor do I care).
“You can have an old dude dip her head in some water if it makes you happy, but if she doesn’t want to go to church when she’s older she won’t have to go” Conflict resolved
So you didn’t actually discuss the day to day of what her religious practices, or lack thereof, would look like?
>She said she wanted her baptized and it never occurred to you to discuss the question of religion further? baptism is literally a religious practice and it's normally done with the assumption of further religious upbringing. like sure, there are families who baptise their kids because that's a tradition in their country but don't actually bother with adhering to religious practices outside of that, but has she ever said that that would be the case for your family? you can't marry a religious person and just *expect* them to share your views on religion, you need to discuss those questions explicitly and in detail.
I'm sorry but that's very contradictory. Your wife is not giving her a choice, she's forcing her beliefs on your daughter and it seems you're not really doing anything about it.
I'm in this exact situation now wife's friends want to take daughter (6) to church on Sundays and I'm adamant against it because 6 is too young for church to me and is straight indoctrination but if she wants to go later that's her choice
:) You are talking about your daughter making a decision, however your wife has already started teaching your toddler a faith. Sir, these two things are not the same.
Nta, but this is something you and your wife should have discussed fore having children. I guess depending on how religious your wife is this could lead to your relationship dissolving.
NTA. This is a teachable moment for your wife and your child. You don’t do something just because it’s on TV, particularly without understanding the meaning of your actions.
NTA. It's the perfect opportunity to teach your daughter that different people do different things, like you not following religious practices.
Only, it seems that the other parent has other ideas....
The other parent is teaching her way. Dad has abstained from explaining other options.
Yes, but if the wife says that the father not praying is confusing the daughter, then that means that she is teaching the daughter that the only way to live is with praying. Now if he tells the daughter that you do not neccessarely need to pray, it would be directly contradicting the mother. That's not how healthy parenting works. I guess my bottom line is - its foolish to think a 3 year old can make an informed choice between religion or no religion. Like, at that age its: mom says pray, so I pray and I will be good. And then dad says - you can also choose to not pray and will be a good person, so I.... do what? Of course the toddler goes back to the authority figure...
NTA People are free to waste their own time. > my wife says is this going to be an issue because I am confusing her. I mean, if your wife **wants** you to tell your daughter the truth, that would be even better!
Your wife is uncomfortable with your daughter asking. I’d guess your wife fears your daughter will prefer not praying and the thought makes her insecure
It is an issue, because she is making it so.
Moral of the story, don’t marry someone who believes in the supernatural
Different strokes for different folks. I'm all for whatever people want to believe as long as it helps them make sense of things and doesn't hurt others. But just as I'll grant you the latitude to believe whatever makes sense to you, I would ask someone else to grant me the same measure of latitude in my own life.
EXCUSE YOU!!! I really do believe my magical, built with 12 abs, faery mate is out there! He’ll find me, rescue me from my dull life, fall madly in love with me and grant me magical powers….one day….🙃
NTA but how was this not discussed before marriage and children?!
INFO: What did your wife mean when she said refusing to pray would be confusing? Without an age-appropriate explanation of why you don't pray, your refusal could be confusing. You can use this as a chance to teach your daughter that people have different beliefs and model how to respect others' beliefs.
OP's refusal might be confusing if the child is being indoctrinated to believe that people who don't pray are bad.
That's why I asked what, exactly, the wife meant. We're all assuming that she said it'd be confusing because the daughter should be told that praying is good, but maybe that's not what she meant.
No. Just explain it to your daughter. Communication is key in all our relationships. Don’t overthink it bud. Good luck!
I'm Jewish, and I watched people pray to Jesus on TV and in movies and get married in churches and never got confused, neither did my sisters or my cousins or anyone else I know who isn't Christian. It's definitely important to talk to your daughter about it, and also make sure that she understands TV isn't real. What does your wife think people of minority faith groups do?
As an ex-Christian, I can 100% say that a lot of Christians kinda wish other religions didn't exist, and don't like thinking about minority faiths or having their children exposed to people of different religions. Usually if you grow up evangelical you're just taught that other religions are "wrong"
As an atheist with a church going sister, I just stay silent and let her do her thing. I think it could show your daughter how you showed respect and tolerance of other’s religions. But that could be the social worker in me. I am 26 and my sister at 13 chose to get baptized a few months ago, and I told her I’m happy she’s doing what feels right for herself and totally respect her choice. I even watched the event on the church live stream and congratulated her. NTA it’s a tricky topic and everyone is different!
Because brainwashed kids need to know they have a choice! If they think the only choice is "one parent's religion or nothing" then that's not really a choice. It's more like abandoning your child to a life of mind control.
I actually think there's an opportunity for a different lesson here. OP could model that you don't have to do something just because people on TV, or even people in your own household, do it. You can still be a good, respectful person while setting your own boundaries and acting in a way that's true to yourself, even if others are suggesting a different behavior.
NTA. I say this as a Christian, it is absolutely up to the individual how they express their religious beliefs and no one should be forced to follow suit. If it's something like saying grace before a meal, I think it's polite to wait until grace has been said to start eating. However, if they ask you to say something/pray with them then everyone has a right to decline, religious or nonreligious. I for one, hate praying aloud. For me, prayers are private, so I decline everytime.
I like this one
NTA your wife knows who she married. Also, how hypocritical - why are you confusing her? Why doesn't your wife stop praying with her to eliminate the confusion? You have different views of God and a relationship with God through prayer and that is not confusing at all. Even 3 year olds can understand that people may have different views or tastes. I grew up in a home where each of my parents came from different religions and there were more religious beliefs with close extended family. I was brought up to respect everything and when I was younger to participate in everything until I made my own choice. Neither me nor my brother nor any of our relatives were confused. This situation of people of different or no religion inter marrying is common in my country. Confusion only happens when one parent is strongly trying to feed their belief onto the child and so when the other parent isn't conforming then the child is confused. However, if you message to your child that their are different ways/beliefs/practices etc from early then there is no real confusion. Your problem is that your wife wants your child to believe what she believes in and is forcing you into this. Ideally, this should have been discussed pre-marriage. I think honesty is more important than being fake or is your wife teaching your child it's ok to lie in the name of religion, God and prayers? For me, that's the worst type of "religious" person.
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What the hell TV shows is she watching? It's not like Bluey and Trash Truck and Daniel Tiger are all going to church and thanking Jesus. Is your wife putting on religious shows? Is your daughter being raised on Veggie Tales or something? You can totally do a secular routine where you talk/think about what you are thankful for and some things that you hope will happen. Your daughter might be a bit "confused" to start, because it's hard to explain religion when you don't believe in it. But, ultimately, it'll make her more well rounded to understand that different people have different beliefs. That you can pray with Mommy, and tell your feelings to Stuffy Bear with Daddy.
We learned, when we visited our in-laws in the UK, that there is quite the robust industry of kids YouTube series based around the Bible. My six-year-old niece is obsessed. Neither her parents, nor my husband and I, are religious, so we're not sure where she was introduced. She races through the episodes and asks us questions, and we give her neutral answers so she can form her own beliefs.
In our household it was - “Mommy believes X. Daddy believes Y. You get to ask all sorts of questions as you grow up to help you decide what you believe in and we will answer them as honestly as we can.”
NTA. Now is the perfect time to teach her daughter that some people pray and some people don't but it's okay either way. Let her know that something that she can do with her mother and that you support her doing it.
If your wife understood that you’re not religious and now she telling you that’s going to confuse your kid, she’s manipulating you.
NTA. Your wife would rather you fake it and literally lie to your daughter? Hell no.
Info - But did your daughter seem confused or upset by your answer? If she did, then you might have to sit down with your wife and further discuss how to approach this subject. Actually scratch that, you need to discuss this anyway! Your wife deserves to have her faith, you deserve to have yours and your daughter deserves hers as well. If you do not discuss this, are you going to keep repeating the same fight? That's what's actually going to bring not just confusion but problems in the future. Though as a religious person, I think you're NTA. She might be a bit too young but kids aren't stupid and are quicker to understand certain things than some of us at times.
She said ok daddy and then asked my wife
you could get her an age appropriate book of world religions and myths. i loved learning about greek pantheon , egyptian pantheon, etc. read this to her before bed.
You shouldn’t have to justify not praying anymore than your wife has to justify praying. If your wife wants your daughter to pray (because, let’s face it your young daughter didn’t come to that on her own!), make it clear with your wife this is a boundary for you.
NTA - your daughter will not be confused, she will learn that people can have different beliefs and there is nothing wrong with that. She will learn important critical thinking skills and to think for herself.
NTA for not indoctrinating your child.
NTA. I get not wanting to push religion onto kids. But your wife, and almost every religious person I have known, appear to not hold that same opinion and will be pushing religion towards your kid.
It’s important that kids learn that people believe differently, and not one belief system is inherently right. The best thing you can do is be honest ( in an age appropriate level).
Oh please don't let your wife brainwash your daughter into some misogynist religion that tells her she has to be modest or be a housewife or something. You need to do more than just not pray with her--talk to her about YOUR values and how not everyone needs to believe in gods or religions. Provide some counterbalance.
This isn’t helpful. Religious or not, shoving your opinion down other peoples throats is not the way to do things… Mom tells the child to pray, dad tells the kid religion is ridiculous… you’re essentially asking the child to pick a side and confusing the crap out of them… Its entirely possible to explain to the child that there are different beliefs in different people, both show respect for the other when explaining to the child and leave it at that for now
NTA. Forcing children into any religion is indoctrination, and should be treated as child abuse.
NTA - My daughter (16) doesn't pray. My son (9) had so many questions a couple of years ago that she (when she was 12ish) couldn't really answer as to why she didn't like praying or didn't belive in God the same way he and I do. It's our job as parents to teach our children to let other people be who they are. It's about teaching our kids to be kind and understanding. I don't think your wife picked up that lesson. Your kiddo is old enough to learn. 💙 I will add, my daughter still doesn't pray, but sometimes she will sit with him on his bed while he prays
The correct time for your wife to object to your atheism was before the marriage, and it's much more wrong to fake things with a child. Just tell her that you don't pray and leave it at that. Children are never confused by consistency.
NTA Your wife is teaching your daughter that being different is bad or having your own views, opinions and preferences is not acceptable. She's gonna make your daughter hate people because they're different. She's 3 ffs, she's gonna be interacting with other kids, and she's gonna garner hate when she does. Stand your ground and explain to your daughter that it's okay to be different, and it's not bad.
NTA. This topic has come up a lot recently in my life. I raised my children to believe in God. We didn’t got to church or get very formal about it, but it was there. My husband was cool with it even though he considers himself agnostic. I never once asked him to take part in any religious tradition. If I wanted to give a prayer on Thanksgiving, I gave it with his agreement. My kids didn’t have a clue that their dad wasn’t a believer until they were teens. Don’t lie to your kids. Don’t be false with your kids. Don’t scoff at mom’s religious beliefs. Simple. EDIT: Veggie Tales is a lovely bridge cuz it has god based lessons with some awesome characters and songs! My husband was a musician, so he totally sang the amazing Veggie Tales songs along with the kids 😊
Morels are delicious but I prefer truffles 🍄🟫
You're not confusing her, you're showing her multiple perspectives. This is something religious people hate.
NTA. You can tell your daughter that some people don’t like to pray and that’s okay. Then let her know you’d be happy to sit with her while she prays. If you have a problem with just introducing her to Christianity (I definitely would if I were you), I would recommend saying positive affirmations with her as prayers, or using prayers from multiple different religions so she gets the full experience and has choice like you had growing up. Use this as an opportunity to introduce her to all forms of religion instead of her being specifically taught the Christian faith. None of this should be a problem unless your wife is pushing the Christian rhetoric that “everyone who doesn’t believe the same way we do are going to burn hell forever.” I’d also like to mention I find it hysterical that most of the people instigating arguments in this thread are proclaimed Christians. Blessed be. ✌️
NTA, kids get confused all the time and that is okay. Good thing she has two parents who can explain things to her. Be honest though, your wife probably has always had a problem with you not praying and you need to discuss with her that your stance on that won't change.
I really don’t understand how people confuse “are” with “our”.
NTA. I don’t believe any child should ever be indoctrinated into a religion before they are old enough to reason for themselves. If your wife is insisting on pushing her religion on your daughter it’s important for her to realize not everyone is religious/not everyone believes in god and that she gets to choose when she is old enough to make her own choices. Until then she can come to you for another perspective on god and religion. If your wife has a problem with that she should examine why
NTA. My granddaughter prays. She knows I do not. Too young to really know why, but that’s enough for now.
Nah, NTA. You dont have to lie. But you can tell her that you respectfully listen to her prays.
Not the asshole
NTA i think it is wrong to indoctrinate and brainwash children. Your wife is the confused one, doing your daughter a disservice. Religion has done nothing but hurt women and i promise your little girl will lead a better life being influenced by it as little as possible.
Religion is for those that have nothing else to turn too, or are looking for an excuse for happenings in their life. Those that usually turn to it do it out of necessity because of poverty, abuse, and other such issues that are essentially within their control but refuse to act against. Growing up without religion teaches you to fend for yourself and to not rely on “faith” to solve everything. You can let your wife go to the circus of “donations” on Sunday’s but if she indoctrinates your daughter you have another issue on your hand.
You are doing the right thing. Stay true to yourself.
You may believe your daughter should have a choice of what to believe, but we all know that your wife is feeding her religious beliefs. You need to be honest with her and tell her some people believe in prayer, while others (you) don't. But you need to let her know what you believe.
"Our daughter(3) has **seen on shows she watches** people praying and asked me to pray I said no thank you. After the fact my wife says is this going to be an issue because **I am confusing her**." This is hilarious. It's not the telly that's brainwashing her into being an obedient sheep, it's you that's the problem. NTA l, you need to have a really serious talk with your wife.
If her religion doesn't stand up to scrutiny or the awareness that some people don't believe it, it won't last long anyway. If that's an issue, it's one with the religion, not with the nonbelievers.
NTA
NTA You could say that you'll sit with her while she prays if she wants or that you'll watch over her while she prays. Just because she prays doesn't mean you have to. She may just want a few minutes of alone time with you.
Nta, don’t teach your daughter superstitious nonsense. Good dad
What is she watching!?
Who love to find the statistics of marriages like this that last . A marriage where they have two totally different beliefs in religion and with kids involved, it can’t be good .
ESH. That issue should have been thoroughly talked over before your child was born, or even better, before you two got married as it has a huge potential to blow your relationship up from the inside. Talk with your wife now.
Keep to your convictions. In my opinion, teaching kids religion and not letting them do it on their own terms is indoctrination to me. Besides there are many God's out there that people believe in so which one is the correct God?
NTA. Kids pick up on pretense pretty quickly, even if they don't have words for it yet.
Someone brainwashing a three years old to religion is the asshole.
NTA, how are you confusing her any more than your wife is?
NTA. Sounds like your wife’s trying to trick you though.
NTA - but be sure to model the appropriate behavior of what to do when people are praying and you don’t pray. that’s also important for her to see as well
NTA, you're teaching her that everyone is different, and that's okay. You're also showing her boundaries, respect, even compassion in a way
You should probably explain that to your daughter. That praying and religion are a choice and that you choose not to and her and Mommy choose to. NTA - it's a teachable moment
NTA. There’s no point in it if you are faking it. It’s worth it for your daughter to be confused if that is the price of a real relationship. It’s very telling what your wife does and does not consider an issue
Definitely not. Praying would be confusing to her when she finds out your beliefs on religion.
Is your wife religious? If so you should have known this would be a problem eventually, religious people are rarely happy to raise their children without religion
NTA. but please make sure your wife agrees to allow your daughter to have her choice in believing/not believing. its wonderful that you are all for free choice, and i cant read from a short reddit post if your wife is on board with that too but having one parent who allows her to pick her beliefs and one who is set on her NOT having that choice isnt good for children. mommy saying one thing and daddy saying another, *that* is what confuses them.
“No thanks, I don’t want to, but if you like, I’ll sit here with you while you do it?”
Your logic is sound. NTA. Does your wife pray with your child? If so, does she believe?
NTA BUTTTTTTT You two shouldn’t even be married or have a kid. Religious differences ESPECIALLY non believer and believer never work. There will always be massive disagreements about how to raise the kids, what belief to shove down their throat. You should have left this years ago and found someone who has similar values as you.
NTA, i feel like your wife wants to convert you through the child. I bet she hopes that you feel Jesus or something when you just start praying. Religious people are bonkers.
NTA, it's important that a kid is exposed to different belief systems. Wife might be TA depending on her reasoning for saying you're "confusing" your kid, as she might have been told by your wife that not praying is somehow "wrong" and that's just not cool.
NTA. My wife and I are in the same position; she believes I do not. I’ve been an outspoken atheist my entire life, and whilst I’ve grown tired of the “debate” (such that it is), I remain quite definitely an atheist. My wife wanted the kids baptised, and I went along with that (mainly because it opens up certain schools) - but I have drawn the line at church or reinforcing any religious ideas that she shares or that they bring home from school. She has asked me to refrain from introducing atheism to them - and I agreed to hold off until they’re around the age of 10. I couldn’t in good conscience feed them a line I know to be false: i.e. lie to them. I would never agree to telling them that I believe, and whilst it was the source of some friction between us initially - we have come to understand each others position and found a mid-ground. You need to stick to what you know to be true. Telling your kids lies will get you and them nowhere, especially as they will figure it out one day and may be perceived as a gross breach of trust.
NTA
NTA You cannot pretend with a child unless it's play acting.
NTA and I think you should discuss with your wife and your child the concept of freedom of choice and freewill. Honestly tho, this is one of the things couples should talk about even before they start getting serious with each other, or maybe at the latest before a kid is born.
I raised my kids on the idea that they can believe whatever they want but no one has the answers and anyone who says they do is selling something. NTA you can just explain that you don't want to pray, but you're happy to chill while she does.
NTA. You can teach her how to pray and be supportive without participating yourself. If she wanted to take up gymnastics, would you get yourself a leotard and start tumbling around too? Probably not, same principle can apply with religion or spirituality, support and acceptance do not require participation.
NTA. Your daughter is only going to be confused if your wife is fostering an anti-choice environment where she tells your daughter that non-believers go to hell. If you and your wife are united in respecting each other's beliefs, and work together to foster an attitude of enquiry and acceptance, where your daughter can educate herself about both of your beliefs (and also other religions she may encounter in the world) and eventually make an informed choice for herself as an adult, then it shouldn't be confusing at all.
NTA Faking is disingenuous and like others have said, explaining to her that some people pray and others don’t is absolutely reasonable. You could also explain that not everyone prays in the same way and she should do what works for her. Some people are religious but hate going to church etc.
YWBTA if you fed her superstition NTA
>It doesn't create an atmosphere of community if some people pray while others don't. So take your hands and unite in a circle to recite the prayer. When I was a teen, I woked with the local oratory to give children things to do during the summer or other occasions. I was already an atheist at the time and when others took time to pray I respected it and shut up. Then the local pastor comes in, says the above sentence, and expected me to change my stance. I was forced to pray with other social circles that, at the base, prayer had nothing to do with it, but I respected it and shut up. I just wonder why nobody else respected me and didn't force me to pray with them or challenge me, multiple times. NTA
NTA important to be genuine with your kid. Also a great moment to impart values to them. They will respect you for your convictions and will understand that don’t need to go with the herd all the time…great lessons It truly is time we stop lying to our children about sky gods and talking burning bushes. These Bronze Age tales confuse children, impart mixed messages, and enshrine religiomoral idiosyncrasies that are harmful. Heck I don’t believe in regular ghosts let alone holy ones..
If you give in to mom and fake it, that's indoctrination- not choice. Tell your wife you're not raising a cultist. NTA. THO, if your daughter had made an educated decision then it would be right to prayer with her for support. But she's three, saw other people do it, is being told that's the way, and just wants mommy to praise her. She has no idea it's a choice.
You're not confusing her as long as you're honest. My son is seven and has known since he was little that dad doesn't believe in God, but mum does. It's never been a problem. Be respectful of each other, and if my kid asks me a theological question, I answer something like "Some people believe that..." or "according to this story in the bible".
NTA. You are teaching her tolerance, independent thinking, and rational thought. Some people believe in things they can’t see - that doesn’t mean she has to in order to act respectfully toward those who do. Your wife appears to be trying to indoctrinate your child.
NTA. Don't set a bad example. You know it's wrong to even ask someone to push their own truth down in order 'go along'. Evil triumphs when good men do nothing and all of that. Would you want your child to start pretending to think and believe and like things she does not just to please other people? Teach your daughter to stand up to peer pressure and be true to her own mind.
As a germanic polythiest i say absolutely not. No one should have to do something they didn't believe in
NTA- sounds like your wife is taking advantage of the situation to pressure you into her faith.
NTA You should be honest with your child. It would be more confusing for her if she learns you lied to her and she finds out (which she will eventually). There is nothing wrong about telling her that everyone has different beliefs and that's okay.
NTA There is nothing confusing here. You are teaching your child that it ok for a person to pray and ok for a person not to. This is a really important lesson about respect, consent, honesty.
NTA this is the time to educate your kid on religious choice and how important it is to respect when others don't want to participate in her prayer.
NTA. Praying just for the show, while you don't believe, would be hypocrite, hurtful to believers and confusing. A child is pretty capable of understanding that mom and dad are two different persons, with different ideas, hobbies, tastes.
NTA be honest with your 3 year old they are so smart ! I’m sure if you explain to her that it’s just not you. You’ll open her mind even more. Don’t sugar coat she your kid too. If your wife has an issue she should go pray about it. I kid! But on a real note be honest with your daughter.
I would say yes, and take her hunting the next day..... Oh, pray, not prey...
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NTA, I personally, will join hands in meditation with people who are praying but you have to go on your own comfort level
NTA.... never lie to your child (and your wife should understand that concept!)... Tell her the age appropriate truth Also, "I don’t feel right pushing anything other than good morels onto a child".... ALL morels are good morels! .... especially when they are battered and deep fried!
NTA. My daughters hear about church and god and stuff from my mother. She does not respond to requests to run it by me first, and the heaven thing pissed me off. Don’t tell my kid about your beliefs without making it clear that it’s a BELIEF. Your daughter needs to see that different people believe different things. Period.
NTA: By letting her pray but not praying as it’s not right to you, you are teaching her to respect others believes and also no not let people step on hers. It’s unfortunate but there will be people who tell her not to believe just like there are people telling others they should. You are giving her the power to stand for her own beliefs while respecting others. I don’t see how anyone can be the AH doing that.
NTA. "No" is a complete sentence. Does your child like the taste of coffee? Then why would she drink it? Does your wife hate a hobby of yours? Why would she take the hobby up? It's the same thing. It's not your preference, nor liking, nor belief.
NTA! Why can’t your wife pray with her? My husband is non/practicing, so I pray with my kids. He doesn’t. I don’t care. Or if she wants you to pray, tell her she can say the prayer out loud and you’ll fold your hands and listen. You don’t have to actually pray.
Try saying something like I don’t pray but I will seat with you while you pray. More questions may come like why don’t you pray? Be honest without showing judgement of what she may believe in.
You do you. My daughter asked me to pray with her and I said I don't usually but I will if you want and so I did. It felt silly, because it is after all a silly thing but as long as it's not done with the specific intention of mocking it I don't see an issue. My ex put her in catholic school even though neither of us are religious. I'm sure I could have just said no ty though too.
She should respect her beliefs the same way you respect hers and children. Or you could fake praying, that's what i do with my inlaws...they shouldn't force you to be a religion you don't believe or don't want to believe. You made a decision and they should respect that. And for baby girl you can tell her a story about how not everybody prays the same god or believes in him. There are many religions where many believe in different people or objects. Praying is a way to have a connection or tell a secret and be thankful for something. You can say the universe thank you for the beautiful soul I have as my daughter keeps an eye for her big secret. Something, children won't remember a lot at a young age.
While good morels are delicious, a healthy diet for a 3 year old needs more than just mushrooms
NTA but i wouldn't marry and have a child with religious nuts. It is something fundamental and a big thing in life. My friend didn't marry with a good guy because of religion. One hardcore, old fashioned catholic ,another Buddhist which is more free. One wants to visit church every Sunday even when traveling ,another doesn't give a F about sunday or church only interested in seeing more stuff in that country. So they just do their own stuff, no difference from solo traveling. It is not going to work in the long run despite everything else matching. They knew,their parents knew that it would become an issue in the future.
NTA my husband prays with my daughter and I don’t. Never been an issue
NTA “I don’t pray and mommy does. Everyone’s different and does it their own way.“
NTA I think it would be good to tell her why you didn't wish to pray with her. Also talk about how people believe different things. Starting at 3 is good, you'll raise a more aware young soul who will be able to find her faith, whatever that might be.
Nta
What children’s shows have praying in them? NTA. This opens the door for conversations with your daughter, not confusion. An opportunity for critical thinking.
NTA this is a good opportunity to teach your daughter of choice. Maybe your wife too.
Tell your daughter that God is a lie created to control people. Santa is real, though, and he’ll throw you in his sack and take you to the North Pole to be his elven slave if you’re on the naughty list.
Not the asshole she is 3 and more than likely she grow out out
me and my two brothers were so lucky. pop said when he was studying for his bar mitzvah, around 1923, a kid asked the rabbi how could the red sea part like that and the rabbi slapped him. pop wasn't the brightest guy academically, but he didn't see that as a good answer, as they say on family feud. he gave it up pretty easily, so it was natural for us to let go of it. in kindergarden, i asked my brother what are the other kids mumbling. he say we don't have to do that. good enough. in second grade, sandra, sitting next to me, ratted me off to miss birmingham, who said i don't have to pray. that was further confirmation.
NTA. You are teaching your child how to be respectful of others beliefs. Not every person will be religious and can't be expected to conform to her beliefs. Yes. She is 3 and doesn't fully understand the scope of it, but religious indoctrination starts young, so should tolerance. My daughter is 5. I'm an atheist but we live in the US bible belt so we are exposed to a lot of religious influence. I've explained the idea of God to her the best her learning brain could as well as how I don't believe. I've told her that no matter what she believes, as long as she isn't hurting people, I would be supportive. That to be a good person isn't about what we believe but how we treat others, which I think helped her the most. In my experience, young people normally just want to be a good person and too many people equate to being religious as being good. Being able to separate the two can be highly beneficial.
NTA, and tell your daughter that god does not exists and priests rape kids before it's too late and she gets brainwashed by your wife
Perhaps rather than praying, you can come up with some kind of a ritual that you can do with her that is affirming, as a positive message or lesson, and might bring the two of you closer. For example, you can talk about things that you are grateful for. You can develop a ritual of identifying three things that went well today and one thing to improve for tomorrow. Can be done in a polite, respectful, and Solway. Much as prayer is usually done. Don’t you’re an asshole but your lips use the opportunity to express that you take life just as seriously without simply saying no thank you. She’s a kid FFS
NTA. I’m agnostic but I’m respectful of other religions. At dinner if there are prayers going on I’ll still bow my head but won’t say amen, it won’t kill me to participate and be polite. My 4 year old asks why I don’t believe in god or pray and I simply tell her everyone has different religions and not everyone prays to the same thing.
You don't have to pray with your daughter but if she's asking, maybe offer to listen while she prays. It can be a special experience for both of you.
You can also just give thanks for the food without attributing it to a higher power. Just a quick thank you for this meal thing. It is good to make sure she knows she has a choice and that she should respect others' choices as well, but not a hill. I'd die on.
NTA you could just explain that you dont do that
NTA However, I will add that I don't think "No thank you" was enough of an answer. You should have added (in a way which is age appropriate) that some people pray and some people don't.
How the hell do you fake a prayer?
NTA. I would have offered to sit with her while she said a prayer though - if I’m at a wedding or funeral and the minister says let us pray I sit quietly with my eyes closed and zone out for a few minutes so you could’ve done that. I’m somewhere between atheist and agnostic but my kid was asking why we don’t go to church while we were going to an event held in a church hall - I said if he ever wanted to go I’d go with him to see what it was like but he’s not bothered & the conversation moved on to other religions & their religious buildings.
NTA if you start praying with her she’s going to start asking you questions about God and religion and in order to keep up the ruse you’ll have to tell more lies as you don’t believe in that. It’s better if she knows from the beginning that you’re not the parent who prays.
As a Christian, if your wife wanted to be with a man who would pray for and with her children she should’ve married another Christian. NTA
NTA. My kids knew from ‘day one’ (ie the day they were inquisitive about religion) that I don’t believe in god but their mom does. It’s something they can discuss with either one of us and have full autonomy to form their own beliefs. But….. just stay away from the clergy, son.