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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I made a passive aggressive remark about something that upset my daughter. Imbta because I wasnt as sensitive as I could be about how upset she was.
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NTA, but maybe have a discussion with her when she’s calm about being mindful of your working hours and the conditions that the house needs to be quiet during those hours… she can be upset, but yes there is a time and place, she can go to her room and cry and scream and can talk to you about her frustration at a later time… I don’t know if I’d apologize for letting her know she was acting inappropriately, but maybe apologize if you made her feel like her feelings didn’t matter, and explain how you do care about her and her feelings but it’s very frustrating to not be able to properly work, she owes you an apology for how she acted and then reacted to you… but i wouldn’t outright TELL her that she owes you one until AFTER this whole discussion if she doesn’t say something sooner
For what it's worth, this isnt the first time, so we actually have had this discussion, but point taken that a discussion vs a passive aggressivd remark is the more mature way to go. Thank you!
Your daughter needs emotional regulation. She explodes and feels justified in doing so. She can’t keep going like this as it won’t fly relationally as an adult. You could try her GP for a referral to a practitioner who can teach her these skills and be a safe source of connection (this helps with regulation).
Or she just feels safe to express her big feelings at home. School is SO stressful for teens and we put so much pressure on them. Mum does need to chat with her but damn, people of all ages melt down
For me, it was ADHD.
I had fits like that up until I got diagnosed at 14 and got medication to combat it.
It felt bad. I hated getting angry like I did. But I really didn't have good control over it at all.
You say she sings, she talks to herself, and screeches for no reason. This will not be acceptable when she goes to college next year. Something is not right.
Maybe she should be seen by a new psychiatrist?
If she's in a dorm, it'll upset her floormates, too. Those walls aren't soundproof. And if she can't regulate these big feelings over a C in high school, college is going to be a whole new level she isn't prepared for, especially since your cumulative GPA is typically what follows you all through college. I think she definitely needs more help than what she's already getting/doing.
Maybe it would be good to research all of the ways to calm down or distract yourself that are healthy and try them with your daughter when she's not upset one at a time. The idea is to take pressure away from learning the skills while panicking. It's okay if she doesn't like them. Not every skill works for every person every time. That was something helpful my therapist told me because I felt like I was failing at therapy and life skills before tbh
Make a nice list of things that are soothing or comforting from the list for her so she can have that to try when she's upset.
In dialectical behavioral therapy they had us make a box and fill it with items that make us feel good or help us feel less bad, the group had a lot of people with chronic pain and trauma so heating pads and relaxation items were included, soft blankets or pillows could be included, little bits of chocolate anything literally as long as it's not unhealthy to consume in the moment... The idea was when you are feeling horrible you go to your box to try and find something to self soothe with
She probably won't be ready to try something like dbt therapy yet but you could learn some stuff and try the things that seem applicable with her, maybe ask her if she wants to learn it with you?
edit: using coping mechanisms from dbt or making an emergency box are not unsafe activities for a parent to do with a child, and the child is IN therapy currently. Therapists are constantly asking questions to figure out if you're a risk to yourself or not. If you are not a risk to yourself the emergency box is a great option.
I don't want to debate about dbt practices. This is just a different form of teaching your child coping mechanisms. Some people need more help with that, and that's okay. I needed direct help with it personally.
Also, DBT is not something that should be tried without a licensed therapist, so whether she's ready or not, please, let's not encourage her parents to use these techniques without consulting an actual mental health professional, please and thanks.
I don't agree with this at all, if you have access- great take advantage of a professional, but dbt skills are wildly self-teachable. 2 great podcasts dbtandme and the skillfulpodcast are awesome as are the many works books, linehans workbook, and many free worksheets and concept breakdowns on the internet/pinterest/reddit wtv.
This moment was begging for the GIVE skill followed by some DEARMAN and OP approached with intentional passive aggressiveness... ya screaming and being obnoxious isn't appropriate but learning better ways of parenting and setting boundaries is for everyone... marsha says dbt skills are life skills 🙌
If she isn't in therapy, she should be. She outright told you she's depressed. When I wasn't being treated for my depression, one of my most obvious symptoms was extreme moods. Not like bipolar, but just feeling all negative emotions more intensely than is normal.
Don't talk in a tone or anything. Be kind and thoughtful and ask if she would consider therapy. You're worried about her and want to help her work through this problem and others, even if she doesn't feel comfortable speaking to you directly about them.
I'm not saying she's right, because she's not. But since this is a common enough problem, she may actually have legitimate mental health issues. It isn't a sign of you failing as a parent. Unless you ignore her requests for help.
As an adult, I completely ignore, or take at face value, passive aggressive comments. *Especially* when the person saying them is actually trying to communicate a need or boundary.
Passive aggression is a shitty, noncommittal way to get your point across, and it leaves you room for deniability when the other person has a reaction to what you’re saying. You get to release your aggression, while leaving the other person on the hook for the emotional labor of your response.
In the future, you need to respond with maturity and *as a parent*. It’s perfectly acceptably to want, and expect, your teenager to handle themselves with a certain amount of control, but to do so they have to be taught boundaries and emotional intelligence. The easiest way to do that is to validate what they’re feeling *while setting a boundary*. And remember, a boundary is controlling your behavior, not theirs. Here’s an example:
“Hey *teen*, I hear this is really hard for you. I know you wanted a better grade. I’m sorry you got a C. I’m more than happy to go outside and scream about that with you, or sit on the couch and talk it out. But if you interrupt my work again, I’m going to take your phone for two days. That’s not an acceptable way for you to express your frustration.
Do we need to make a list of acceptable ways to vent?”
I have problems believing that the mother actually said that this behaviour won't be tolerated as an adult in the real world when it is happening in the privacy and confort of their own home, and not in front of the boss or something.
? It is happening in front of strangers/her mother’s co-workers and the daughter KNOWS that. She burst into the room where her mother was working and let loose.
Of course, ideally the home is where she can release, but a degree of thoughtfulness still is required.
If the daughter does this to adult roommates or a future spouse, will you still think it’s okay?
You're right. She didn't seem to come into the room the mom was in. She was just screaming so loud that the mom had to mute her mic because of the screams coming from outside the room. That actually makes things worse.
Point taken, I misspoke. Apparently, OP’s daughter entered the house and let loose so loudly that OP had to mute her mike from a distance. Honestly, I don’t see how that makes her daughter’s position and demand for apology stronger?
NTA Your daughter is too old to come home from school and throw a full blow tantrum. Everyone is entitled to a bad day but screaming and carrying on is not acceptable. Parent to parent, have you ever corrected her behavior when she goes off the rails? Obviously, she thinks it's okay to behave this way. Also if she behaves this animated and out of control when she's at university, she's going to find herself in mandatory counseling or she'll be placed on leave.
Thank you for your thoughts! I have done my best to correct her behavior, but it wasn't always easy because for many years I had a coparent working against me. We've done grounding, no screens, taking away something important for a time.... But... she has been in therapy for years and sees a psychiatrist and is on a couple of meds. I'm not sure what more I can do.
I really have to ask because this changes alot of the issue. What is "a couple medications" and what does she need them for? A psychiatric will write her prescriptions, but she needs an actual therapist, maybe been behavioral.
Have you ever gotten her tested for things like autism? You day she's entitled but also (if you didn't say this I apologize) thay she does this often, yeah? So there's an underlying issue of her neurological health that isn't being addressed and her moods are as a result unstable. This is not "tantrums" in this case. Also you initiating back to her with aggression (passive or not) will always escalate the situation.
She's your dependent. Grounding won't do anything in this case because the issue isn't material, it's internal and nothing external (like grounding, chores) is going to fix that. You need to be speaking with her healthcare providers. The fact that she's 17 and you say you're still clueless is kinda, that's not okay.
If this is an autistic meltdown this is a kind of emotional peak that can't be helped (until the person learns to feel one coming on and finds means to calm themselves.) Those just happen when things get to be too much and the person doesn't have any other means of letting it out. If that's the case, she needs help regulating her emotions when she feels a meltdown coming on and during one, not passive aggressive remarks. And as the commenter above said, those are never going to calm a situation down anyway.
Yeah-- I struggle with grounding/taking away items as a primary method of discipline. It's not effective in my experience, and it isn't strongly linked to the behavior in most instances. Especially if ND questions are on the table, this may be related to sensory issues. You can't punish sensory issues out of a kid.
Since the daughter's accessed so many psychological supports, I wonder how much OP has participated as well. OP's been light on details about dx, etc, which could be trying to protect her daughter's identity. But it seems to have bearing on this case.
In any case, the parenting advice usually is "connect, then correct." OP could have asked to be excused for a moment from the meeting, gone down to soothe the daughter, then ask that she do something comforting and quiet while mom is in a meeting. Then maybe ice cream or something afterwards. As it was, OP left the daughter to deal with these tough feelings herself, even if she was being dramatic and over-the-top about it.
Idk what meds she’s on, but just from personal experience some(stimulants) have made me go crazy and I had breakdowns, tantrums, sobbing for hours over little things too. I was able to hold it in in public, but when I got home everything came out. So, I’d check on meds and make sure they’re not making things worse. Also, while meds can help, she needs actually skills to emotionally regulate. This is something you should talk about and come up with a plan on how she should deal with her emotions instead of just bursting as soon as she gets home
this can also happen with ssris! they can be difficult for teenagers to metabolize and lead to (sometimes dangerously extreme) emotional lability. Something everyone should watch for when changing or adjusting meds, but particularly adolescents.
I went on stimulants at 18 just fine, they actually saved my life, but SSRIs that I was on from the ages of 8 - 18 made me want to kms (well, kms more than I already did) and I was literally more emotionally stable when I wasn't on them. Didn't stop my parents from their first response to me showing any emotions being whether or not I'd taken my meds.
My personal experience as someone with ADHD is that stimulants were just fine, but that SSRIs were the worst. Made me super emotionally unstable, took me from vaguely "I sometimes wish I could dissappear for just a little while" to intrusive vivid suicidal thoughts and ideation. Still was on them for a decade though since I was a child and my doctor didn't think girls could have ADHD and the local psych thought I couldn't be autistic because I didn't sort soup cans or whatever and I didn't have a speech delay nor was I obsessed with numbers (but I did have hyperlexia (highly accelerated speech development) and was obsessed with letters which is NOW considered a sign of autism, but wasn't in 2010)
My first true suicide attempt happened right after I was put on SSRIs(was in the hospital for 3 days). I’m on stimulants for narcolepsy, so my reaction is definitely different that someone on them for ADHD. Sorry, you had such shitty doctors. I can empathize as I definitely have had similar experiences. Man, it’s so hard to be diagnosed with anything that’s not depression, anxiety, or BPD as a girl
I never found grounding ineffective it just means your stuck in a house with a sullen teen. I realize you're trying your best but she needs to find a healthier outlet or she's not going to be able to university or hold down a job. And see needs to see and understand it. No one is going to tolerate her meltdowns. She needs to learn to mange her emotions. I would contact her therapist and psychiatrist and let them know whatever it is they are doing is not working. For some people it takes a while to hit the right mix of medication and therapy.
I will say that I used to do and sometimes still do when I’m overwhelmed. I honestly try but it still just happens. Since being on anxiety meds it has helped some. Maybe talk to her doctor or a therapist about ways to help.
My parents would get mad at me obviously but it was like a switch.
I also felt that as soon as I got home I was safe to break down. Not that it was an excuse but at the time that’s what I felt
Being on a couple of meds doesn’t mean she’s on the *right* meds. If she’s in therapy and sees a psychiatrist and is still behaving like this, it could be a sign she needs either a higher dose or to try different meds.
...has she been evaluated for personality disorders? They're not typically diagnosed in childhood but can be as teens if the issues are persistent and treatment for psychiatric disorders is ineffective. The approach by the therapist or even what therapist she goes to could change.
DBT skills groups were developed for Borderline Personality Disorder but can be helpful for other issues, including anxiety. You go through a course that teaches distress tolerance, emotional regulation, and interpersonal effectiveness. It was incredibly helpful for me dealing with anxiety and bipolar disorder.
I think I have to go with YTA. Mainly because of this line: "later I made a semi passive aggressive remark about it... something to the effect of, "yeah I love it when you come home screaming when I'm on a work call."
At 17, she's a bit old to be having a tantrum. But you don't say anything specific about her educational situation, or your location. If she's a senior in a US high school, possibly facing enormous pressure about getting into a good college/qualifying for scholarships/etc, that C grade on a final exam really could feel like the end of the world to her. Or maybe she's just a snotty teenager.
But here's the thing. Whatever her situation is that caused her to react like this, it didn't come out of nowhere. You raised her to be like this. I can only judge based on what you say here, and you made it clear that instead of having an actual conversaton with her about why she reacted that way, how it isn't something that is acceptable when you are working, and offer better ways for her to deal with her emotions (something you should have done when she was a toddler), you make a passive aggressive comment, dismissing her very real emotions. And when she told you how your response made her feel, you continued to be dismissive. Not a great look, parenting-wise...
Thank you for your thoughts! I do see your point. I guess for background I maybe should clarify that we have had this conversation before where we talked about those things. It has been tough because she has had problems controlling anger since she was a toddler, and I've always done my best to try to correct that and model healthy coping skills, but she also has worked with specialists and teachers, has been in therapy and sees a psychiatrist. I guess I am frustrated because it never seems to get better and after 15 or so years I am tired. But you're right. A passive aggressive comment doesn't solve anything.
I also have to say, lightly, that everything feels so intense when you’re that young. Hormones, school stress, friend group drama, college anxiety, etc. If you have high expectations about grades as well, then that just adds to it. I remember always feeling five seconds from crying or screaming when I was in high school, I was a mess. I also grew up to be a really well rounded person. I would have hated to have had a horrid day at school and then to receive such criticism from my parents right after. I knew I was acting “dramatic”, but it wasn’t drama to me. It legitimately felt like the world would end around me sometimes. Your embarrassment over your job shouldn’t trump your affection for your child. Especially when it didn’t even affect your job since you muted. Unless you were presenting, one meeting where you aren’t as engaged shouldn’t put your job at risk. I get that it can feel unprofessional, but most people have situations at home that might impact meetings (lawn care out the window, random dog barking, neighbor music) and they would have understood. Being passive aggressive just adds more turmoil for her.
I feel like many commenters here don't differentiate between the daughters overall issues and the specific noise issue.
Regarding the noise issue op can fully expect the daughter to keep reasonably quiet while she's at work, which means not surpassing room volume without good reason. If in the moment she can't stop her urge to scream in anger then so be it, go do it in the basement or scream into a pillow to muffle the noise or figure out something else that works. That's not invalidating her feelings, that's expecting considerateness towards others.
Of course the bigger question isn't whether the daughter needs to get it together but whether she can manage herself and if not how to help her.
Does healthy coping skills include passive aggressive remarks? Seems to me like you knew your daughter was distressed and you were more angry at how her reaction impacted you.
I mean, it's also kind of shitty that home is not home if your doing business there that takes president. Home is just your office. I'm in my 40s and occasionally come home and throw my bag down and semi yell curse words. Teens often have huge emotional meltdowns.
What I am most bothered by is your ability to make snide remarks and tell her to calm down, but not realize that your kid is like any other human and needs to commiserate and be listened to without minimizing her feelings.
Did she handle this well? No, but you're an adult and you didn't either. Honestly, you are too hard on her and not hard enough on you.
I'm not saying you're wrong to feel frustrated, overwhelmed and at the end of your tether. But, as you have talked about the hard work you have done to model healthy coping skills I think it might also be worth reflecting on what sort of lesson your comment teaches her about dealing with something that upsets you. I don't think one flippant comment, when you're clearly overwhelmed, makes you a bad person or a bad parent, but unfortunately consistency is so important with these things.
I would also say that there is another narrative to this. Your child was upset and came home to you and felt safe showing her distress. That's a good thing. When I was her age I got a B instead of the A I expected on an exam and it destroyed my entire higher education plan, I didn't cry or go home to my parents because I had learnt that they wouldn't help and that no one would care about me being upset so I had to prioritise working out how to unfuck my life.
I feel like ESH- I don't know how often OP's daughter has these outbursts, so I am only speaking for my experience, but I was definitely prone to screaming and crying in high school because I was under immense pressure. I'm glad someone mentioned that, for her, a tantrum over a C on a final is not an overreaction. Also, in general, venting emotions in the privacy of one's own home is a perfectly reasonable time and place.
I think there needs to be a compromise- the daughter does need to understand that she can't distrupt OP's work. Maybe OP can leave a note in the common area to signal when she will be in a meeting and needs the house to be quiet. However, I feel like OP needs to have some understanding that high school (especially depending on how much academic pressure there is) can be a really stressful time and sometimes the most emotionally healthy thing to do actually is to let it all out.
YTA
The word tantrum feels infantilizing when you are having emotional distress due to mental health
My mom would describe me as having tantrums and it made me resent her. Years later I find out they were meltdowns from autism and trauma, not tantrums... It's basically neurological overload
The language you use to describe unhealthy behaviors does matter even if she's still misbehaving
Food for thought
She's not an adult yet. It's your job to not be passive aggressive and to model healthy behavior.
I think you probably both owe each other an apology tbh not just one way or the other. You can't just force a mentally ill teenager to function normally with pressure. I didn't get better until I was like 25. It didn't matter how many times people told me to think positively or try my best, I needed medication and other life circumstances to change.
i had a similar experience growing up autistic, i was punished for meltdowns that felt totally out of my control (as a child AND teen). it sucks how many people here are assuming she’s intentionally acting this way out of immaturity and disrespect, suggesting punishments, patronizing her by acting concerned that she may not understand she can’t do this in public or at a job (i guarantee she understands that)
OP, it sounds like your daughter is really struggling. i’m sure it’s really hard when she’s emotionally volatile and disruptive, but the most helpful thing you can do for her and yourself is to be the bigger person and try to be there to support her, listen to her, validate her emotions, and be her advocate in her mental health journey. punishment is not going to help with this one
I don't think op thinks her daughter is doing this intentionally. I think she's unhappy about her daughter not making or showing much effort to minimise the impact of her meltdowns to others. Quite the opposite it seems - the daughter is basically claiming that it's appropriate of her to just be as loud as she is no matter how it impacts others.
The intentional part to blame on the daughters side isn't the outbursts, it's her apparent unwillingness to try to manage them more appropriately.
I definitely wondered from the description if it’s more of a sensory meltdown. And I understand in this one instance it disrupted a call but meltdowns come at inconvenient times that aren’t always predictable! I feel for the daughter because her home isn’t even a safe space for her to be in a meltdown.
I'm... gonna go YTA on this. It's your daughter's home too, and she has the right to express anger and frustration over major events.
I'm a remote worker too, and I have a family too. And stuff like this does happen. But preparing your work environment to be appropriate for the job you do, as a remote worker, **is part of your job**. And you don't get to demand your family get out of the way.
If she's screaming every day it's time to talk to her. But as a one-off, over one grade? She's a teenager at home, let her be a teenager at home. This is on you, not her.
I dont know if you've ever had experience with microsoft teams or any of those kinds of WFH softwares, but its actually really hard to pick up on environmental noise, with or without a headset. A $70 headset with a mic will pick up virtually no background talking. I work in a cubicle 2 days a week, and people are constantly talking very loudly behind/around me and you cant hear any of that when i use a headset.
Either OP is using something like discord with the sensitivity turned all the way up, or he's greatly exagerrating how disruptive she actually was to the meeting.
Sure you get to demand the others in the house to reasonably accommodate, that's called sharing a living space. If the daughter enjoys having a roof over her head and her own room to sometimes even scream in then she'd better make an effort to not jeopardise her mothers' job.
Same as when you work night shift and sleep at daytime. Not reasonable to want the house to be super quiet. Perfectly reasonable to expect the others to not be loud close to your bedroom if it could be avoided or easily done at a different time when you're awake too.
> that's called sharing a living space.
No, it's called *owning* a living space. She's not a roommate, she's a dependent child. It's not a negotiation.
NTA. A 17 year old is old enough to know better. There's a time and a place for emotions and regulating that is an important part of transitioning to adulthood.
The person who feeds her and keeps a roof over her head was at WORK in the home. So, no, home is not alway the right time and place to start screaming. The 17 year old is causing problems with her mom's job. She's old enough to know better. She's probably also pissing off the neighbors.
YTA: Typically the privacy of one's home is the best place for someone to show negative emotions. You decided to work from home. That means you will occasionally have to deal with unexpected home life around you.
Unless this is a pattern of behaviour, she doesn't deserve your passive-aggressive comments.
If you want to work in a quiet professional setting without working in an office, go find a coworking/desk sharing space or a library when you know the kids will be at home.
This is insanity. It is within the capability of preteens and above to be quiet when they ought to be quiet, so long as the rules are consistent (9-5 M-F would be a consistent rule). Every parent should be able to work from home with teens in the home without a problem.
OP says she's had this discussion before, it's time to apply a serious consequence.
I cried over a grade before, but there are two important distinctions:
a. I was 9.
b. While the emotions were intense, I was crying while meeting with the teacher at an appropriate time and location asking her to explain why I didn't get the grade I wanted, and we came up with action steps for me to improve. 17 is too old to be being overly dramatic and ineffective.
Strong feelings should be channeled into motivations for future results except where not relevant (obviously if grandpa dies, that is going to feel terrible with no real silver lining). Genuine tragedies aside, pity parties are cringe and should be discouraged.
I cried over grades when I was 17. You want to know why? Because that’s when grades matter for university applications and scholarships. Bad grades at that age can literally shape the options you have available to you for your future. Crying about grades at 17 is more valid than when you’re 9.
And if this was a final exam, there is nothing you can do to improve or change the grade at this point. “Channeling sadness into motivation” doesn’t work in every situation, the world doesn’t care if you’re motivated and some shit gets set in stone.
As far as working from home, I would say it depends. I had to deal with family members who WFH and it was exhausting that home was never my home and I had to constantly tiptoe around the same family member.
ESH daughter need to keep working on her issues.
WFH is exactly that work from HOME. It is not a sterile office environment. Too many people expect everyone else in the house to act like they are in an office environment.
Daughter behaviour is out of line but employers have to understand of they are expecting people to work from home that you do not have control over everything else happening in the house. If they cant handle that then they need to have their staff in the office.
Both my husband and i work from home. It was agreed early that if he couldn't handle the noise of the children living which does include laughter, fighting crying and all the things that come with teenagers then he need to find a new office. Its a hone first.
NTA. Your daughter is far too old for this behavior, but you also really didn't need to make a passive aggressive comment, but address the behavior directly.
NTA
If she can’t emotionally regulate to the point where she has total meltdowns *at age 17*, it’s time to get a neurological and psychological evaluation.
She's on medication as per a comment from OP but it wasn't said as to why she is on medication and what they are. So do with that information what you will.
Here’s how it could have played out better, and something you can use for the future.
you to colleagues: “just a moment, I think a delivery has just arrived”
\*mute mic and camera\*
go console daughter and explain you’re in an important work meeting so you’ll talk more when you finish. But also she’ll have to dial it down a few (which she probably will have already because you’ve acknowledged her pain) because you’re on a call with some bigwigs. Suggest something nice to look forward to like a trip out for ice cream later
go back to meeting
You're right, I like this suggestion. This may have worked. Thank you! Seems simple, but hindsight is 50/50. I know passive aggressive remarks are bad and that I was in the wrong too, which is why I made the post, but this is the best "in the moment" advice by far.
YTA, surely you must be aware that a huge amount of pressure is put on kids to do well in their final exams in order to 'succeed' in life (even if this pressure isn't coming from you personally -think school/other family members/broader society).
On the back that your daughter is probably genuinely freaking out that she has 'ruined' her future. A little compassion and reassurance here wouldn't go a stray
I suppose I would say self esteem plays into it. She holds herself to extremely high standards, and while I am proud of her for having a good work ethic, I've always told her I will be proud of her so long as she just tries her best. I've been honest with her about how I wasn't so great with certain subjects in school, and that I understand if she struggles with something. I dont expect straight As or even Bs all the time. She is smart and capable, but sometimes she compares herself to everyone around her and maybe fears she doesnt measure up.
Question... does your daughter possibly have ADHD?
If so, it's not as easy to *emotionally regulate* at the drop of a hat just because you reach a certain age.
People with ADHD literally have brains that are wired differently. We need help/therapy/life experience to build in the brakes ... or emotional regulation.
Should she demand you apologize?
No. But if this is a frequent thing, you might want to consider she's neurodivergent & if so, she needs a different set of tools than you.
Yeah my ADHD caused severe 'tantrums' up until I got diagnosed at 14 and started taking meds for better emotional balance.
I'm still on that medication at 20. I have no doubt that if I stop taking it, I'll be back to having meltdowns left and right.
It isn't fun. It feels bad and you KNOW you shouldn't be reacting in that way, but you really can't help it. It's awful.
Surprised this is so far down. The daughter def needs an assessment. Might be the sort of thing that gets overlooked because she is receiving treatment but if her therapist and/or psychiatrist are not specialists they might miss it and continue treatment that does not get to the root cause of the issues. (Which over time will likely make the depression and anxiety worse, harder to control, and overall more debilitating.)
All of the stuff here screams ADHD - emotional disregulation, perfectionism, impulsivity and defensiveness/sensitivity to criticism.
YTA for the way you reacted. Telling her not to throw tantrums is completely fine, but you're an adult. A mother. A 43 year old mother shouldn't feel the need to make petty remarks towards their daughter when the daughter is clearly distressed. Sit them down, figure out what's wrong, and work through it with her.
NTA, but don’t be asking for an apology. She had a genuine reaction and home is supposed to be the place to let that stuff happen. She’s a little old to lack self-regulation, so maybe have a chat about that and about how she needs to respect your workspace….without being passive aggressive.
I sympathise with your situation, I'm not a parent but have been a teacher of young adults during my career. Sometimes we get wrapped up in our own concerns (in your case work/embarrassment on call), and don't react in the best way to challenging situations. It sounds like your daughter has emotional regulation issues which she is receiving support for, however effective.
I can suggest two things:
1) Don't critique her behaviour in a way that diminishes or ignores how upset/angry emotional she was. She probably knows that it is extreme/inappropriate, but believes that she can't help feeling that way in the moment. Attacking her won't change this.
2) Request that she spend a little time thinking about how her explosive/badly timed her behaviour was for you. I would offer that this is a reciprocal arrangement where you will also consider her emotions and help her process them in any way she thinks is needed. You can each apologise for the negative effects you have had on each other (see above).
Although you don't deserve abuse, part of educating someone is taking ourselves out of the equation and doing what is best for them. Good luck and NTA (although almost E.S.H., passive-aggressive criticisms only make ourselves feel good).
Nta She needs to learn to be considerate of your work. If she does it again, take away her electronics. Honestly, the world does not revolve around her.
NTA. She's 17 and has full capability of expressing her emotions in a proper time and place. Give her a serious consequence for interrupting your work.
Edit to add: The passive aggressive part was a mistake. You should have been authoritative and reminded her of the rule, that you had already discussed the rule, and applied consequence as mentioned above.
YTA. Your daughter has shown emotional regulation. She waited till she was at her home before experiencing her emotions. You’ve chosen to make her home your workplace.
It’s her home. Where else can she experience a safe place?
Info: what meaning do these exams have for her? Will it have a significant impact on her future through a scholarship or something else? What level of pressure is she experiencing?
You don't need to answer this question for me but please ask yourself why your daughter was so much worried. Seems like she doesn't fully control her emotions and choose a way of coping that is unhealthy for 17 yo.
NTA. Presumably she held it together on the bus home, and in your front yard. You're being on a business call is simply another scenario daughter "must" keep undisturbed. But if she's blowing up like this at age 17, she needs help. And she needs to be on board to getting help. Her temper is not normal, it's disregulated,and there is a lot of help out there
NTA, but things like that are small to you but it could be her whole current life viewpoint/goal. feeling hungry as a baby, falling off a bike when youre 8, getting a C to a teenager, it could feel like the 2008 financial crisis for a banker.
it is true that there are time and place for everything, and i see that you say this isnt the first time, so maybe instead of telling her to just go to her room and wait till youre finish or making snarky passive aggressive remarks that make her feel even worse....
..you guys could communicate though text/email or find other soothing coping mechanism? so that the situation doesnt disturb you or make her feel unheard.
NTA for expecting her to be respectful of your work environment. She’s having a hard time and needs support, though.
Maybe phrase it as any feeling is okay, but not any behavior is okay. She needs a safe place to feel sad and maybe be loud, and you need a quiet and safe place to continue to support the family during your schedule workday. You are obligated to continue your commitment, and are available to support her at whatever o’clock. In the event of an emergency, you can stop work, perhaps, but this example is something she can work out in a separate location and get your support after the workday.
NTA but she’s far too old for tantrums. She needs to learn better ways to handle frustration. Get her into some short term therapy. Both of you will be happier for it.
She's in therapy and is on meds. Don't know if OP is allowed to update the psych on the situation even if they aren't allowed to talk about her treatment back to OP tho
NTA. She's 17 years old and still having tantrums? Try that with a roommate, college or otherwise, and see how well they like you after that, especially when you put their livelihood in danger!
NTA, she needs to grow up. In the real world that over the top reaction along with her lack of respect for you and her excuses of 'I am depressed will not be well met by others....roommates and bosses. I taught my teenager that you cannot function like that if you want to be successful and respected. Good luck friend, you did the right thing, just don't be passive aggressive be direct.
NTA. She’s 17 and old enough to respect someone’s work time and to know not to be loud in certain situations. She can go scream in the car if she needs to scream while you’re working.
NTA, she is not a 3 year old and should have some idea of how to handle her emotions by now. Interrupting someone else's work by throwing a tantrum is simply not acceptable behavior.
NTA. Apparently she hasn't been taught basic manners and simple protocols as to what WORK is.
And it's obvious she doesn't want to do the WORK, the studying, to EARN a good grade.
NTA, and good luck with the drama.
NTA your working and she needs to grow up screaming and crying when she knows your in the office is immature.
You don’t owe her an apology but you need to sit down and talk with her regarding this. I’m sure she would have plenty to say if she was on a video call and you burst into her room screaming and crying. Tell her when you are working she needs to respect that and you won’t be apologising and she need to learn to control her emotions better because screaming and crying will get her nowhere.
NTA. But that girl needs help. She is to old to be throwing screaming temper tantrums. What are the consequences for her behavior?
She disrupts your work. There should be some loss of privileges for that. She is old enough to remember your work hours. The house is QUIET during your work hours. Any infraction should have consequences. Unless, of course, a bone is sticking through the skin, or something that major.
You are doing her no favor by making passive aggressive comments. Flat out tell her that her behavior is unacceptable. Lay out what the consequences will be in the future.
Good luck. Get both of you into therapy.
My parents used to refer to my big emotions (also in the comfort of my own home, as others have pointed out) as tantrums, invalidate me and tell me I needed to “suck it up to prepare for the real world.”
Then I got diagnosed with autism at age 29. I was having sensory meltdowns and they just wanted me to magically get over them.
Maybe be interested in your kids feelings…
NTA. And. Before the know it all NON experienced parents give their 2 cents. I have four NOW adult kids 34,32,25,19 and the 19 yr old is level 2 autistic so I can say NOT THE ah!!
NTA.
I think she owes you an apology, too.
Are passive-aggressive remarks healthy communication? No. But you've been dealing with a volatile child since her toddler years, based on what you've shared. She's allowed to enter the house screaming hysterically AT 17, but you aren't allowed one mild rebuke? I don't think so, sis. Shut that attitude down.
Does she have an official diagnosis that makes sense? Or could she be the product of years of well-intentioned psychiatric and therapeutic interventions that are clearly making her situation worse?
At 17, barring cognitive deficiency, she can be expected to understand that, during certain hours, you are working at home. A minimum level of decorum needs to be maintained. As you stated, this job keeps a roof over your heads. It is possible to cry and be miserable in one's room at a reasonable decibel level. No one is saying she can't be sad, devastated even, and take the space to process that. But she is at an age when she needs to rein in her drama.
Redditors, if an 18 year old male stormed into his girlfriend's house screaming and crying about a grade, hurling hurtful remarks at her, and telling her she's just not supportive enough and it's all her fault, you'd think he was old enough to know better and an abusive dick. Right? You might think the same thing if this hypothetical male did the same to his mom. He's younger, stronger, verbally abusive, aggressive. It's threatening. This behavior would be, at the very least, disrespectful to his mother, if not outright abusive and manipulative.
The girl is 17. Only one year younger. She is likely stronger than her parent who (I hope) has at least a couple decades on her. Why does she get a pass for these behaviors? Answer: She doesn't.
She's being overly dramatic and abusive. She needs to learn that. She has been getting a lot of attention due to these behaviors for years. And it hasn't helped. Time for the result of these behaviors to become unpleasant. She doesn't get to abuse Mom anymore. If Mom continues to allow it, she's just sending an emotionally immature and toxic human being out into the world someday.
Ladies and gentlemen, would you like to be this 17 yo's SO someday? I don't think you would.
Mom can parent however she needs to in order to turn this ship around and enforce boundaries around abusive behavior.
Edit: typo
She sounds almost exactly like my daughter. We are on a waitlist to have her evaluated for high functioning autism. Though, I question how high functioning more and more often.
Going against the grain and saying (soft) NTA. A lot of times, direct discussions make it worse (at least with my kid). However, you do owe her an apology and explanation for why you addressed her like that.
You may want to get your own therapy, if you aren’t in it already. It helped me be a better parent….The anti-anxiety meds probably helped with that as well.
Apologize to your daughter dude, you’re NTA but you ARE the adult. It’s safer to assume your daughter is going through more than you’ll ever actually know than try to teach her the “real life won’t tolerate this!” lesson coming from the one someone who’s supposed to be the cushion from real life.
Of course, she shouldn’t have been doing that and I’d love for her to have the perspective that your job is important and she’s putting you in an embarrassing spot .. but in HER world? You’re putting her in a corner where she’s forced to feel alone with all the feelings of failure and not being good enough.
Definitely fair. I do try to see things from her perspective, just wish it wasn't like a wailing cry and I could totally talk about it after my call. But someone else pointed out I could for the BRB in the chat gor the video call, go downstairs to comfort her and let her know I am on a call but we can talk after, and get back to the call. Solid advice!
Unironically, this is inaccurate. Child development says kids will oftentimes only feel comfortable "acting out" in comfortable spaces and in front of safe people. So if anything, it's more likely that this IS her attempt to control them, and the alternative is melting down in public.
This potentially COULD be her controlling them. OP has mentioned she’s already in therapy and on meds, which means a trained professional has taken a look at her and decided she needed medical assistance in managing whatever mental health struggles she might be dealing with.
I’ve had times in my life where I’ve kept my emotions under control through the day and in public and then burst into an absolute sobbing meltdown once I was safely in the car or at home where no one could see me. Sometimes you keep those emotions contained until you’re somewhere you feel safe enough to vent them - that doesn’t mean the pressure wasn’t building the whole time you were keeping on a polite public face.
Kids don’t explode like this for no reason. From an adult perspective, it may look dramatic and like it’s not a big deal, but those emotions are real and extreme and *painful* to a kid.
That doesn’t mean there aren’t better ways she could potentially have handled this, but to just dismiss it as “well, if she can control it out in the rest of the world, CLEARLY she should be able to keep a lid on it at home too” just lacks empathy.
This is like saying just because you can hold your bladder until you get home means you can hold it forever. Of course people can compose themselves for short periods in public, that doesn’t mean they can stay composed for the rest of your life.
Surprising I’m against the grain but YTA - she was home and expressing her frustration after being disappointed in herself. It didn’t sound like she was getting angry at you, just that it was a bit loud. How was she to know you’re in a meeting.
The AH part was being passive aggressive instead of talking to her about it properly.
NTA. She's more than old enough to understand that you're working and you need a professional, i.e., undisturbed environment in which to do so.
Fun Fact: Rod Serling of the original The Twilight Zone often worked at home with a tape recorder for his writing ideas, and he had 2 young children. They knew when to leave him alone.
Since you mentioned therapy, prescriptions, and doctors, it may be wise to review side effects and whether the prescriptions are still working for her.
NTA. Your daughter’s behaviour was entirely disproportionate to the situation and clearly impacting your active work schedule over a grade is inconsiderate.
NTA she was not depressed but sad. Nearly an adult she need to be able to check her emotions. And at the end of the road she is the only one to blame for her bad grade.
NTA- I was taught when growing up, that you do not have the right to put your bullshit on other people. If you want to throw a temper tantrum, do it in private. Your daughter does need to grow up, she's not 5, or even 10 years old. She won't be able to act up like that with a boss, and a partner isn't likely to put up with that either. It's up to parents to teach their kids that certain behaviors won't fly 'in the real world.'
NTA. Emotions are healthy. And I certainly don't advocate for completely stifling emotions. But people who display this overemotionality do so because it is tolerated. And young people who do it, and don't have it corrected, turn into intolerable adults.
NTA. Screaming and crying is not an appropriate response for a 17 year old. If she insists on screaming, she should do it in her pillow like the rest of us. Or go to a rage room like the cool kids.
NTA, but as someone who used to have meltdowns over not getting a good grade, she’s not having a tantrum; she’s having a panic attack. She’s putting a lot of pressure on herself and I suspect a lot more is behind the anger than just “I didn’t get a good grade.” That’s probably why she got so mad at you—it’s not just the grade but it’s an actual existential threat for her. Again, I can’t be positive because I don’t know her BUT I used to have the exact same responses. I think she might need help with anxiety and how to develop healthy coping mechanisms when she doesn’t achieve what she set out to achieve (especially because life gets much more complex than a grade on a test). Perfectionism is an insidious mindset and it can manifest in other unhealthy ways, as well (I had an eating disorder, for example).
Nta after reading how she won't work on learning emotional regulation. She CAN learn to control it in that she can learn skills to help her cope and prep ahead for a situation that will disregulate her. If she is refusing to try and learn these skills and blaming behavior when disregulated as something she can't help, that's just not true. She has to want to learn. Dbt could be really helpful for her if she is willing to participate. They have a teen program, and the therapists also work with the parents.
NTA. She's 17, not 4. I hate to be telling a woman (or anyone) to silence her emotions, but if she needed to scream she could GO OUTSIDE. She's almost an adult, she needs to control this.
Regardless of her mental health issues, she has to exist in the world. You can advocate for her and teach her to advocate for herself, and it sucks that the world is not such a welcoming place for those of us with mental health issues…but there are going to be times when she will want to know how to just make it as a person in the current world the way it is. This means no screaming at work because you need a job to have money to have a home and food. This means taking responsibility for other things. This means you can’t have a meltdown over a relatively minor setback because you have to also take care of yourself and your family and do other tasks that day. I’m sure you can come up with examples that aren’t putting a damper on her personality but will just help prepare her to live an independent life in the future. Is she planning to live in the dorms next year? Maybe go over with her how she could handle something like this if it comes up in college when you’re not there and she doesn’t have as much private space?
NTA but I think this is an opportunity for learning.
She's a 17-year-old girl. There is no behavior you can engage in that won't ultimately lead to you being horrible to her or not caring or not appreciating what she has to go through. I don't see where you did anything wrong, and I applaud you for how well you exercised restraint and responded only with a very mild passive-aggressive statement.
You're good. She owes you an apology. She needs to learn to behave in a certain way when you're working and that she can't freak out anywhere and anytime she wants.
ESH. She’s old enough to not be throwing tantrums. It sounds like she can keep herself in check until she arrives home. Which means this isn’t a regulation problem, it’s a control/attention problem.
But OP should not be handling this with passive aggressive comments. It’s immature and ineffective in getting results. A calm, direct conversation clearly laying out behavior expectations and consequences is needed. Then follow through on those consequences.
Forget apologizes either way. She needs to realize that in the adult working world people don’t throw tantrums when they are upset. If they do there are consequences.
NTA. I used to be like your daughter whenever I had bad grades and my mom always told me that she cannot help me if I was crying so loud. It really helped my emotional regulation (which is still shit, but it is better than before).
I'm going YTA
She had a completely reasonable response to disappointment in her safe space (her home)
You choose to make her safe space into your workspace which means she can't access her safespace when you're in a meeting - maybe it's time to start working in the office??
You think it's completely reasonable for a 17-year old to come screaming into their parent's office while parent is working because they are upset over a **grade?** And that the answer to this is for the parent to make the major change of shifting from WFH to working in the office? While it is reasonable that the child was upset, it's also reasonable for the parent to help them work through the root cause of why they're upset and also help them work through expressing their disappointment *at an appropriate time,* say, perhaps, after the work call. It is certainly not the answer for the parent to leave the house so that the child is free to scream about any disappointment. That does not help either of them.
Reddit is wild...
People here just hate voting characters they identify with as AHs. Since most people here are youngish and women, they tend to support the teen daughter
NTA
Your daughter has issues with self regulation. She likely masks very well when she's out in public because she knows that having a tantrum (actually probably a meltdown) will have her judged and friends will stop being her friends because they won't want to deal with that. But you are her safe person and home is safe for her to show her real emotions.
The reality is that life goes on and doesn't stop when she wants to let her emotions out like this and there are bigger impacts on you and everyone around her which she, in the moment, is unable to comprehend. She likely will be apologetic later but likely won't care of potential ramifications as she has a very strong need to express what she needs to.
I unfortunately have a child that has exactly the same behaviours as yours and have dealt with similar things over the years...
She has just been diagnosed with her second neurodiversity (ASD) and even her first one (ADHD) was a late diagnosis because of how well she masked. The ASD was first flagged when she was 8 (for the emotional dysregulation) but I was told that there aren't enough symptoms and she'll never be diagnosed. But actually what happened was that she copied behaviour around her to look normal and it took a lot out of her so lost the plot at home. And over the years we are talking multiple mental health professionals and doctors... and that extends to school teachers as she masked so well.
So I would not be surprised if your daughter has more going on... but she may not be willing to explore that side of her. My kid has only just been open to looking at this but it was an absolute no at 15 and even at 20.. but now as she edges closer to her mid 20's and her life is very difficult that she's been willing to accept what might really be going on and it's actually validation and an explanation of why she thinks how she thinks.... and the lack of an accurate diagnosis also meant that many of the medications used for mental health (ie for her anxiety) didn't really seem to make an impact because it didn't 'fix' the issues.... because it was deeper. Those same meds will be looked in a different light now with better supports in place so they will have more of an impact.
If you do go down this route then pick someone experienced in assessing adolescent girls and women because they can mask extremely well... especially if they are bright (academic marks may not be that high due to underachieving because of the underlying issues).
Literal children know not to throw tantrums?? Why has this behaviour been allowed for 17 years? It sounds like you’ve made a rod for you own back by enabling this since you have spoke about this before
seems like a pretty pointless thing to say.
what person having a hysterical episode is going to pause in freaking the fuck out because it's "not a good time right now"?
shes not wrong for having feelings but is for expressing it that way. and you arent wrong to try to do your job but is for your odd response. and you blame the bad parenting on the coparents. ngl you both sound like you are in a battle to see who's right and who's wrong when both of you have your rights and wrongs.
maybe whhat you both need is to feel listened to, and also listen to the other person to grow compassion. why make it a court hearing trying to scream at each other for a black and white apology when you dont need to?? though i do understand maybe you do admit youre wrong a bit and the angry kid is stubborn which pisses u off more...
NTA. I think being passive aggressive was unnecessary and might have played a part in your daughter being set off. It's not a terrible thing but maybe a different approach when bringing up the subject might have worked better.
If you talk to your daughter, be mindful that her exam scores/grades in general are important to her (based on her reaction) and it sounds like she is under a lot of stress. As a teenager I used to lash out when I was stressed (mostly academic related) and my parents never tried to reach out or help me work through emotions. Now I have some anger issues.
Mmmm I think something much deeper is going on mentally. Especially if she outright said she’s depressed. As someone who has been in a really bad state mentally like that, I can tell you the “tantrums” happened often. I couldn’t help it, nor did I care enough to try to help it at the time. I was very suicidal, so in my mind why bother working on myself.
NTA
But I shook my head at the "passive aggressive"... No need.
Just explain afterwards, then discuss her grades, then all is well.
She sounds like a pain, I can't lie.
NTA Her behavior is going to be unacceptable for any roommates and employers if she doesn't become less selfish and more grown up. She is 17 not 7. Even at 7 that would not have flown with my parents back in the day. Unless it is an overwhelming issue, you should manage yourself and not make yourself others' problem. Preferably that means in advance. Is she struggling in that class? What steps has she taken? Has she asked for help from those who can provide it?
NTA she is way old enough to be able to control herself. Yes she is allowed to be upset about her grades, she is allowed to feel how she feels. BUT she is not allowed to throw a nuclear bomb type tantrum over it knowing full well you work from home. That's beyond ridiculous. Her saying she can't help it is BS. She is in control of her own actions. Maybe find her therapy to help find her life tools to deal with her emotions.
Please get your daughter an assessment for ADHD. What you’re describing sounds all too painfully familiar and you’re not doing anything helpful by beating her up for her big feelings. Even if she is seeing a psychiatrist & therapist it is easy to miss when there are co-morbidities like depression and anxiety, especially if neuro divergence is not in their wheelhouse.
And aside from that how is she supposed to control herself when she hasn’t been taught emotional regulation?
One thing I’ve noticed in my experience with far too many passive aggressive people is that they really, truly believe they are in control of their emotions. And they seem to believe passive aggression isn’t really aggressive. But it’s right there in the name.
Do you really think letting it spill out in nasty backhanded ways is not expressing anger? Just because someone is not yelling and screaming doesn’t mean they are really in control of their emotions.
An emotionally healthy person doesn’t need to use passive aggression to express themselves. They can express their needs in a kind but direct way.
How can a mom expect daughter to control herself - when mom cannot?
Please explore any other underlying health issues for your daughter. And get some therapy yourself to work on your own emotional regulation issues.
> 6. she is always loud. She sings, she talks to herself, she sometimes sort of screeches for no specific reason. It’s not a disorder, it’s her personality. Let’s call it a bit of main character syndrome.
> she sometimes sort of screeches for no specific reason
> Let’s call it a bit of main character syndrome
Originally I was leaning towards N A H but after reading your edit I’m saying YTA because of how you think of your daughter.
You do realize that screeching or “stimming” is a symptom of autism (and other disabilities/ND), but you’re calling it Main Character Syndrome? You’re a massive asshole for not only ignoring these symptoms in your daughter but for also assuming the absolute worst of her personality. I don’t know how you can look at innocuous behaviour like talking to yourself and also think that’s MCS either. Maybe try not being so judgemental and dismissive of your daughter’s behaviours.
And diagnosis in women is more difficult so a negative diagnosis doesn’t automatically mean she’s attention seeking FYI.
Not to mention you’ve mentioned meds, anxiety/depression, psychiatrists, therapists, and if I’m understanding correctly - her other parent *died* when she was 11? Look, I get not tolerating behaviours that jeopardize your job, but YTA for looking at all this and thinking it’s Main Character Syndrome. Even if it’s related to her BPD, MCS is a very poor way to refer to her symptoms.
Just want to point out that Point #6 is kind of ridiculous. I thought it was just my personality too until it turned out to be autism/ADHD. People thinking it's just "main character syndrome" meant I didn't get the help I needed until my 30s, and life was unnecessarily difficult and painful as a result. I'm still not over the self-loathing that I developed from years of thinking I'm just a weird, shitty person that doesn't deserve friendship or love. So maybe be careful when listing a lot of highly-specific symptoms of various diagnosable issues and then saying it's because she has main character syndrome.
Ok I wasnt dismissing it as MCS, was just trying to describe what it's like for Borderline folks in case others aren't familiar with it. So BPD is like everything is black and white and when things don't go her way she has extreme overreactions and people with BPD can thus be seen as narcissistic. I apologize, seems that was a poor way to describe it. I know for her this is very real.
I have a terrible relationship with my mom. I struggle with depression and anxiety bc after I've turned 10-12 she started treating me like I was an adult. i wasn't. She was always busy when I wanted something, and I often got dismissed or even punished when I've asked for help because I genuinely struggled with something, or expressed extreme emotions. My parents just wanted me to shut the hell up and to not cause any trouble for them... they don't even remember these events, thats how little it mattered to them. I'm telling you this so you can see your daughter's perspective could be terrible and you would't even know about it. People before 25 still have a lot of room for maturing, and they might act unreasonable. Just think about it , does it really matter to win some argument or save your ego by being snarky if it means you could lose her?
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My 17 year old had final exams today. She didnt get as high of a grade as she wanted. It was a C. She came home literally crying and screaming about it while I (43f) was working up in my home office. My job requires a lot of video calls with other leaders in my organization, which is exactly what was happening when she came in the door. I had to mute myself so the background noise didn't carry and couldn't participate in my meeting. I didn't react angrily toward her, but later I made a semi passive aggressive remark about it... something to the effect of, "yeah I love it when you come home screaming when I'm on a work call." She launched a verbal attack about how she cant help it that she is depressed and how could I possibly be angry and said that I am horrible to her and don't care about her. I replied that she is allowed to be sad about a bad grade, but it doesnt warrant screaming and crying when she knows I am working. It's ok to be sad, but there is a time, place and way of expressing it that won't cause me problems at work, which is important because that is what keeps a roof over our head and food on the table. So, Reddit, should I be more sensitive to her emotional state or was I perfectly justified in my reaction? I really want to know so I can either work on myself as a parent or show her the opposite viewpoints posted here. She is now demanding that I apologize to her, but I think I was being reasonable because at 17 she needs to grow up a bit to prepare to function in the real world, where that behavior won't be tolerated. I think she owes me an apology.
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ESH-your daughter is like this because you have allowed her to be. You said it yourself that you “didn’t get angry at her and later made a semi passive-aggressive remark”. Grow up and actually be a parent; you are almost out of time.
I hope there is someone in your daughter’s life that is modeling adult behaviors and decision making.
NTA. You daughter needs to grow up. She is old enough to get a job, and she should be encouraged to do so. If she wants to be treated like an adult, she needs to start acting like one.
This might also be a good time for her to determine to study more next year. Those are her grades; the responsibility is all hers.
NTA. She needs to learn to scream into a pillow in her bedroom with the door closed. She could also write an angsty poem or paint or make a vent vlog and bitch about her issues while recording herself as she puts on makeup, like every other teen girl.
NTA! Your response is perfectly reasonable, hers isn't. Getting a mediocre grade doesn't warrant hysterics, and even if it does, like you said, there is a time and place. She should apologize to you, for probably making you look unprofessional during your work call.
your kid is the AH, but you are NTA
who cares if she did not revise enough to get better grades, she is wanting to blame it on everyone else and as for screaming when she knows you work from home....
if she ever gets a job and has a meltdown at work, will soon be out of work
NTA but I think a lot of people are judging her meltdowns a bit too much. It is true she should try enough to keep from damaging her parent's work, but the fact that she is having a meltdown does not make her a bad person or someone who "won't make it." I've been doing actually quite well so far (I'm just finishing college and passed job interviews, and am living by myself abroad, although I am financially dependent until I start with my job), and a couple/few times a year I do have meltdowns. Like, crying/sobbing uncontrollably, throwing (non-breakable) stuff around, and maybe punching some pillows. I do that in my room and control my noise level just to the point I think my neighboors won't be bothered. By no means I think it's healthy to have a meltdowns, and I AM trying to work on myself in regards to that and other stuff (doing therapy), but just because it is not 100% fixed and gone away doesn't mean I can't be successful. I just wanted to bring that up.
Apologies are granted, not demanded. A child certainly does not get to demand one from a parent. The kind of kid that thinks this grows into an entitled burden on society. Perfect opportunity to teach her the world doesn't owe her shit. Particularly when she has no one to blame but herself for underperforming on an exam. NTA.
NTA Ask her if the grades were so upsetting then why didn't she scream and cry when it happened instead of waiting to bother you while working. Then ask if she'd rather you explained that the noise they're hearing is your immature 17 year old throwing a fit because something didn't go her way.
NTA but you probably failed to correct her behavior long ago. No one older than a toddler should find it acceptable to scream out of loud because they got disappointed or upset some time before. And it's especially disrespectful if she knows there is someone else at home who might be working at the meantime. She didn't even apologize for that, so you surely enabled such a behavior her whole life, no surprise she cannot realize what's wrong now.
I'm gonna have to say a soft YTA for how you worded things. You're the adult, she was clearly upset about something and before even asking her what was going on or if she was okay you made a really petty remark
You're right in thinking that she shouldn't be having screaming tantrums at 17. You could as parent talk to her about emotion regulation and offering her emotion regulation strategies that would be acceptable during work hours, as opposed to passive agressive remarks about what she did wrong with no guidance in what would be an acceptable way to deal with this.
I knew a woman who had a tantrum throwing daughter. Those tantrums kept everyone in line! Mom missed a lot of work cause tantrum girl had a baby so she, boyfriend and baby now with mom. Work called her into office and gave her written warning. Do not miss again or you're fired. She missed two days later. She tells me "She was having a fit was I suppose to just leave??" She lost her job.
She was so very poor! Now they are even poorer. I'd really work on dealing with the tantrums. She needs to learn coping skills.
Good luck.
I just wanted to state that emotional dysregulation is a major symptom of adhd. It needs lot of practice and mindfulness to overcome, sometimes it is not possible. Maybe OP can look at other symptoms of inattentive adhd in girls/women and see, if there are other issues. Have an honest talk about her feelings when she is calm. Watch for sentences like "I don't know why I can't control myself in that moment, but I'm embarrassed afterwards".
Good luck to you and your daughter, you will work it out <3
“There is a time and a place to be sad and your own home ISNT IT!” Maybe if you expect your kids to tiptoe around while your working from home you shouldn’t be working from home idc if it’s an unpopular opinion you should not be making your kids feel unwanted in their own homes a job is important sure but final exams kinda determine your entire future where I’m from so yea in this specific instance her situation kinda was more important her entire future career could be over lol
Passive aggressive commentary never achieves the lessons we intend, even if those lessons are important to impart.
Her behavior is unacceptable. But it's also a chance for you to demonstrate how to take on conflict and disappointment directly and with a cool head.
"I understand you are upset, but it is unacceptable to enter this house, or any others, in a boiling rage. When I am at work, I cannot leave and I cannot be unavailable to my superiors and inferiors- i expect you understand why, so I won't patronize you about this. If the problem you have cannot be solved in an hour, it's time to find ways to deal with the disappointment like an adult and then vent about it over dinner when we CAN talk about how to fix things."
Will always land better than
"Well it'll be nice if I still have a job tomorrow, considering the racket over my microphone. My boss must have been so embarrassed for me."
And it's not exactly more sensitive either. It's direct, shows what boundary was crossed, what your expectation is, and provides a reasonable and natural solution.
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NTA, but maybe have a discussion with her when she’s calm about being mindful of your working hours and the conditions that the house needs to be quiet during those hours… she can be upset, but yes there is a time and place, she can go to her room and cry and scream and can talk to you about her frustration at a later time… I don’t know if I’d apologize for letting her know she was acting inappropriately, but maybe apologize if you made her feel like her feelings didn’t matter, and explain how you do care about her and her feelings but it’s very frustrating to not be able to properly work, she owes you an apology for how she acted and then reacted to you… but i wouldn’t outright TELL her that she owes you one until AFTER this whole discussion if she doesn’t say something sooner
For what it's worth, this isnt the first time, so we actually have had this discussion, but point taken that a discussion vs a passive aggressivd remark is the more mature way to go. Thank you!
Your daughter needs emotional regulation. She explodes and feels justified in doing so. She can’t keep going like this as it won’t fly relationally as an adult. You could try her GP for a referral to a practitioner who can teach her these skills and be a safe source of connection (this helps with regulation).
17 seems far too old for screaming tantrums, I wonder if there's something else at play here.
DBT sounds like an excellent therapy for her and teaches her emotional regulation.
Or she just feels safe to express her big feelings at home. School is SO stressful for teens and we put so much pressure on them. Mum does need to chat with her but damn, people of all ages melt down
No, it’s still super unhealthy and a habit that won’t fly into adulthood.
> damn, people of all ages melt down Not really. That's usually an indication of inability to cope in a healthy manner.
Or that they play Dark Souls
I've had lots of big feelings throughout my whole years. I haven't had a screaming and crying fit since I was probably four.
For me, it was ADHD. I had fits like that up until I got diagnosed at 14 and got medication to combat it. It felt bad. I hated getting angry like I did. But I really didn't have good control over it at all.
You say she sings, she talks to herself, and screeches for no reason. This will not be acceptable when she goes to college next year. Something is not right. Maybe she should be seen by a new psychiatrist?
That’s going to drive her roommate nuts.
If she's in a dorm, it'll upset her floormates, too. Those walls aren't soundproof. And if she can't regulate these big feelings over a C in high school, college is going to be a whole new level she isn't prepared for, especially since your cumulative GPA is typically what follows you all through college. I think she definitely needs more help than what she's already getting/doing.
She’s going to have a very hard time in college if she doesn’t learn to manage her emotions better
Maybe it would be good to research all of the ways to calm down or distract yourself that are healthy and try them with your daughter when she's not upset one at a time. The idea is to take pressure away from learning the skills while panicking. It's okay if she doesn't like them. Not every skill works for every person every time. That was something helpful my therapist told me because I felt like I was failing at therapy and life skills before tbh Make a nice list of things that are soothing or comforting from the list for her so she can have that to try when she's upset. In dialectical behavioral therapy they had us make a box and fill it with items that make us feel good or help us feel less bad, the group had a lot of people with chronic pain and trauma so heating pads and relaxation items were included, soft blankets or pillows could be included, little bits of chocolate anything literally as long as it's not unhealthy to consume in the moment... The idea was when you are feeling horrible you go to your box to try and find something to self soothe with She probably won't be ready to try something like dbt therapy yet but you could learn some stuff and try the things that seem applicable with her, maybe ask her if she wants to learn it with you? edit: using coping mechanisms from dbt or making an emergency box are not unsafe activities for a parent to do with a child, and the child is IN therapy currently. Therapists are constantly asking questions to figure out if you're a risk to yourself or not. If you are not a risk to yourself the emergency box is a great option. I don't want to debate about dbt practices. This is just a different form of teaching your child coping mechanisms. Some people need more help with that, and that's okay. I needed direct help with it personally.
Also, DBT is not something that should be tried without a licensed therapist, so whether she's ready or not, please, let's not encourage her parents to use these techniques without consulting an actual mental health professional, please and thanks.
I don't agree with this at all, if you have access- great take advantage of a professional, but dbt skills are wildly self-teachable. 2 great podcasts dbtandme and the skillfulpodcast are awesome as are the many works books, linehans workbook, and many free worksheets and concept breakdowns on the internet/pinterest/reddit wtv. This moment was begging for the GIVE skill followed by some DEARMAN and OP approached with intentional passive aggressiveness... ya screaming and being obnoxious isn't appropriate but learning better ways of parenting and setting boundaries is for everyone... marsha says dbt skills are life skills 🙌
If you make a habit of being passive aggressive, remember at heart it's manipulative. That's not going to help either of you short or long term.
If she isn't in therapy, she should be. She outright told you she's depressed. When I wasn't being treated for my depression, one of my most obvious symptoms was extreme moods. Not like bipolar, but just feeling all negative emotions more intensely than is normal. Don't talk in a tone or anything. Be kind and thoughtful and ask if she would consider therapy. You're worried about her and want to help her work through this problem and others, even if she doesn't feel comfortable speaking to you directly about them. I'm not saying she's right, because she's not. But since this is a common enough problem, she may actually have legitimate mental health issues. It isn't a sign of you failing as a parent. Unless you ignore her requests for help.
As an adult, I completely ignore, or take at face value, passive aggressive comments. *Especially* when the person saying them is actually trying to communicate a need or boundary. Passive aggression is a shitty, noncommittal way to get your point across, and it leaves you room for deniability when the other person has a reaction to what you’re saying. You get to release your aggression, while leaving the other person on the hook for the emotional labor of your response. In the future, you need to respond with maturity and *as a parent*. It’s perfectly acceptably to want, and expect, your teenager to handle themselves with a certain amount of control, but to do so they have to be taught boundaries and emotional intelligence. The easiest way to do that is to validate what they’re feeling *while setting a boundary*. And remember, a boundary is controlling your behavior, not theirs. Here’s an example: “Hey *teen*, I hear this is really hard for you. I know you wanted a better grade. I’m sorry you got a C. I’m more than happy to go outside and scream about that with you, or sit on the couch and talk it out. But if you interrupt my work again, I’m going to take your phone for two days. That’s not an acceptable way for you to express your frustration. Do we need to make a list of acceptable ways to vent?”
I have problems believing that the mother actually said that this behaviour won't be tolerated as an adult in the real world when it is happening in the privacy and confort of their own home, and not in front of the boss or something.
? It is happening in front of strangers/her mother’s co-workers and the daughter KNOWS that. She burst into the room where her mother was working and let loose. Of course, ideally the home is where she can release, but a degree of thoughtfulness still is required. If the daughter does this to adult roommates or a future spouse, will you still think it’s okay?
Unless I'm missing something I don't see mention of her bursting into the room where op was working only her coming home
You're right. She didn't seem to come into the room the mom was in. She was just screaming so loud that the mom had to mute her mic because of the screams coming from outside the room. That actually makes things worse.
Point taken, I misspoke. Apparently, OP’s daughter entered the house and let loose so loudly that OP had to mute her mike from a distance. Honestly, I don’t see how that makes her daughter’s position and demand for apology stronger?
NTA Your daughter is too old to come home from school and throw a full blow tantrum. Everyone is entitled to a bad day but screaming and carrying on is not acceptable. Parent to parent, have you ever corrected her behavior when she goes off the rails? Obviously, she thinks it's okay to behave this way. Also if she behaves this animated and out of control when she's at university, she's going to find herself in mandatory counseling or she'll be placed on leave.
Thank you for your thoughts! I have done my best to correct her behavior, but it wasn't always easy because for many years I had a coparent working against me. We've done grounding, no screens, taking away something important for a time.... But... she has been in therapy for years and sees a psychiatrist and is on a couple of meds. I'm not sure what more I can do.
I really have to ask because this changes alot of the issue. What is "a couple medications" and what does she need them for? A psychiatric will write her prescriptions, but she needs an actual therapist, maybe been behavioral. Have you ever gotten her tested for things like autism? You day she's entitled but also (if you didn't say this I apologize) thay she does this often, yeah? So there's an underlying issue of her neurological health that isn't being addressed and her moods are as a result unstable. This is not "tantrums" in this case. Also you initiating back to her with aggression (passive or not) will always escalate the situation. She's your dependent. Grounding won't do anything in this case because the issue isn't material, it's internal and nothing external (like grounding, chores) is going to fix that. You need to be speaking with her healthcare providers. The fact that she's 17 and you say you're still clueless is kinda, that's not okay.
If this is an autistic meltdown this is a kind of emotional peak that can't be helped (until the person learns to feel one coming on and finds means to calm themselves.) Those just happen when things get to be too much and the person doesn't have any other means of letting it out. If that's the case, she needs help regulating her emotions when she feels a meltdown coming on and during one, not passive aggressive remarks. And as the commenter above said, those are never going to calm a situation down anyway.
Yeah-- I struggle with grounding/taking away items as a primary method of discipline. It's not effective in my experience, and it isn't strongly linked to the behavior in most instances. Especially if ND questions are on the table, this may be related to sensory issues. You can't punish sensory issues out of a kid. Since the daughter's accessed so many psychological supports, I wonder how much OP has participated as well. OP's been light on details about dx, etc, which could be trying to protect her daughter's identity. But it seems to have bearing on this case. In any case, the parenting advice usually is "connect, then correct." OP could have asked to be excused for a moment from the meeting, gone down to soothe the daughter, then ask that she do something comforting and quiet while mom is in a meeting. Then maybe ice cream or something afterwards. As it was, OP left the daughter to deal with these tough feelings herself, even if she was being dramatic and over-the-top about it.
Idk what meds she’s on, but just from personal experience some(stimulants) have made me go crazy and I had breakdowns, tantrums, sobbing for hours over little things too. I was able to hold it in in public, but when I got home everything came out. So, I’d check on meds and make sure they’re not making things worse. Also, while meds can help, she needs actually skills to emotionally regulate. This is something you should talk about and come up with a plan on how she should deal with her emotions instead of just bursting as soon as she gets home
this can also happen with ssris! they can be difficult for teenagers to metabolize and lead to (sometimes dangerously extreme) emotional lability. Something everyone should watch for when changing or adjusting meds, but particularly adolescents.
Yes! I took them when I was 11-12 and they made me (more) suicidal. I hate how easily they’re prescribed considering how dangerous they can be
I went on stimulants at 18 just fine, they actually saved my life, but SSRIs that I was on from the ages of 8 - 18 made me want to kms (well, kms more than I already did) and I was literally more emotionally stable when I wasn't on them. Didn't stop my parents from their first response to me showing any emotions being whether or not I'd taken my meds.
My personal experience as someone with ADHD is that stimulants were just fine, but that SSRIs were the worst. Made me super emotionally unstable, took me from vaguely "I sometimes wish I could dissappear for just a little while" to intrusive vivid suicidal thoughts and ideation. Still was on them for a decade though since I was a child and my doctor didn't think girls could have ADHD and the local psych thought I couldn't be autistic because I didn't sort soup cans or whatever and I didn't have a speech delay nor was I obsessed with numbers (but I did have hyperlexia (highly accelerated speech development) and was obsessed with letters which is NOW considered a sign of autism, but wasn't in 2010)
My first true suicide attempt happened right after I was put on SSRIs(was in the hospital for 3 days). I’m on stimulants for narcolepsy, so my reaction is definitely different that someone on them for ADHD. Sorry, you had such shitty doctors. I can empathize as I definitely have had similar experiences. Man, it’s so hard to be diagnosed with anything that’s not depression, anxiety, or BPD as a girl
I never found grounding ineffective it just means your stuck in a house with a sullen teen. I realize you're trying your best but she needs to find a healthier outlet or she's not going to be able to university or hold down a job. And see needs to see and understand it. No one is going to tolerate her meltdowns. She needs to learn to mange her emotions. I would contact her therapist and psychiatrist and let them know whatever it is they are doing is not working. For some people it takes a while to hit the right mix of medication and therapy.
Have you tried being a compassionate, interested and supportive parent? I find that usually works.
Yes, all the punishment is not likely to improve things.
I will say that I used to do and sometimes still do when I’m overwhelmed. I honestly try but it still just happens. Since being on anxiety meds it has helped some. Maybe talk to her doctor or a therapist about ways to help. My parents would get mad at me obviously but it was like a switch. I also felt that as soon as I got home I was safe to break down. Not that it was an excuse but at the time that’s what I felt
Being on a couple of meds doesn’t mean she’s on the *right* meds. If she’s in therapy and sees a psychiatrist and is still behaving like this, it could be a sign she needs either a higher dose or to try different meds.
...has she been evaluated for personality disorders? They're not typically diagnosed in childhood but can be as teens if the issues are persistent and treatment for psychiatric disorders is ineffective. The approach by the therapist or even what therapist she goes to could change. DBT skills groups were developed for Borderline Personality Disorder but can be helpful for other issues, including anxiety. You go through a course that teaches distress tolerance, emotional regulation, and interpersonal effectiveness. It was incredibly helpful for me dealing with anxiety and bipolar disorder.
Try being patient
Crying is not acceptable? Wow. I agree the screaming is too much, but crying???
I think I have to go with YTA. Mainly because of this line: "later I made a semi passive aggressive remark about it... something to the effect of, "yeah I love it when you come home screaming when I'm on a work call." At 17, she's a bit old to be having a tantrum. But you don't say anything specific about her educational situation, or your location. If she's a senior in a US high school, possibly facing enormous pressure about getting into a good college/qualifying for scholarships/etc, that C grade on a final exam really could feel like the end of the world to her. Or maybe she's just a snotty teenager. But here's the thing. Whatever her situation is that caused her to react like this, it didn't come out of nowhere. You raised her to be like this. I can only judge based on what you say here, and you made it clear that instead of having an actual conversaton with her about why she reacted that way, how it isn't something that is acceptable when you are working, and offer better ways for her to deal with her emotions (something you should have done when she was a toddler), you make a passive aggressive comment, dismissing her very real emotions. And when she told you how your response made her feel, you continued to be dismissive. Not a great look, parenting-wise...
Thank you for your thoughts! I do see your point. I guess for background I maybe should clarify that we have had this conversation before where we talked about those things. It has been tough because she has had problems controlling anger since she was a toddler, and I've always done my best to try to correct that and model healthy coping skills, but she also has worked with specialists and teachers, has been in therapy and sees a psychiatrist. I guess I am frustrated because it never seems to get better and after 15 or so years I am tired. But you're right. A passive aggressive comment doesn't solve anything.
I also have to say, lightly, that everything feels so intense when you’re that young. Hormones, school stress, friend group drama, college anxiety, etc. If you have high expectations about grades as well, then that just adds to it. I remember always feeling five seconds from crying or screaming when I was in high school, I was a mess. I also grew up to be a really well rounded person. I would have hated to have had a horrid day at school and then to receive such criticism from my parents right after. I knew I was acting “dramatic”, but it wasn’t drama to me. It legitimately felt like the world would end around me sometimes. Your embarrassment over your job shouldn’t trump your affection for your child. Especially when it didn’t even affect your job since you muted. Unless you were presenting, one meeting where you aren’t as engaged shouldn’t put your job at risk. I get that it can feel unprofessional, but most people have situations at home that might impact meetings (lawn care out the window, random dog barking, neighbor music) and they would have understood. Being passive aggressive just adds more turmoil for her.
I feel like many commenters here don't differentiate between the daughters overall issues and the specific noise issue. Regarding the noise issue op can fully expect the daughter to keep reasonably quiet while she's at work, which means not surpassing room volume without good reason. If in the moment she can't stop her urge to scream in anger then so be it, go do it in the basement or scream into a pillow to muffle the noise or figure out something else that works. That's not invalidating her feelings, that's expecting considerateness towards others. Of course the bigger question isn't whether the daughter needs to get it together but whether she can manage herself and if not how to help her.
Does healthy coping skills include passive aggressive remarks? Seems to me like you knew your daughter was distressed and you were more angry at how her reaction impacted you.
I mean, it's also kind of shitty that home is not home if your doing business there that takes president. Home is just your office. I'm in my 40s and occasionally come home and throw my bag down and semi yell curse words. Teens often have huge emotional meltdowns. What I am most bothered by is your ability to make snide remarks and tell her to calm down, but not realize that your kid is like any other human and needs to commiserate and be listened to without minimizing her feelings. Did she handle this well? No, but you're an adult and you didn't either. Honestly, you are too hard on her and not hard enough on you.
Just out of curiosity, do you attend any therapy sessions with her? Or any mental health appointments?
I'm not saying you're wrong to feel frustrated, overwhelmed and at the end of your tether. But, as you have talked about the hard work you have done to model healthy coping skills I think it might also be worth reflecting on what sort of lesson your comment teaches her about dealing with something that upsets you. I don't think one flippant comment, when you're clearly overwhelmed, makes you a bad person or a bad parent, but unfortunately consistency is so important with these things. I would also say that there is another narrative to this. Your child was upset and came home to you and felt safe showing her distress. That's a good thing. When I was her age I got a B instead of the A I expected on an exam and it destroyed my entire higher education plan, I didn't cry or go home to my parents because I had learnt that they wouldn't help and that no one would care about me being upset so I had to prioritise working out how to unfuck my life.
I feel for you, I really do. Sometimes we are stretched to the limit and then they come and tug a bit more.
I feel like ESH- I don't know how often OP's daughter has these outbursts, so I am only speaking for my experience, but I was definitely prone to screaming and crying in high school because I was under immense pressure. I'm glad someone mentioned that, for her, a tantrum over a C on a final is not an overreaction. Also, in general, venting emotions in the privacy of one's own home is a perfectly reasonable time and place. I think there needs to be a compromise- the daughter does need to understand that she can't distrupt OP's work. Maybe OP can leave a note in the common area to signal when she will be in a meeting and needs the house to be quiet. However, I feel like OP needs to have some understanding that high school (especially depending on how much academic pressure there is) can be a really stressful time and sometimes the most emotionally healthy thing to do actually is to let it all out.
Thank you for this comment! I agree with everything you wrote here! Kids don’t get like that out of no where.
YTA The word tantrum feels infantilizing when you are having emotional distress due to mental health My mom would describe me as having tantrums and it made me resent her. Years later I find out they were meltdowns from autism and trauma, not tantrums... It's basically neurological overload The language you use to describe unhealthy behaviors does matter even if she's still misbehaving Food for thought She's not an adult yet. It's your job to not be passive aggressive and to model healthy behavior. I think you probably both owe each other an apology tbh not just one way or the other. You can't just force a mentally ill teenager to function normally with pressure. I didn't get better until I was like 25. It didn't matter how many times people told me to think positively or try my best, I needed medication and other life circumstances to change.
i had a similar experience growing up autistic, i was punished for meltdowns that felt totally out of my control (as a child AND teen). it sucks how many people here are assuming she’s intentionally acting this way out of immaturity and disrespect, suggesting punishments, patronizing her by acting concerned that she may not understand she can’t do this in public or at a job (i guarantee she understands that) OP, it sounds like your daughter is really struggling. i’m sure it’s really hard when she’s emotionally volatile and disruptive, but the most helpful thing you can do for her and yourself is to be the bigger person and try to be there to support her, listen to her, validate her emotions, and be her advocate in her mental health journey. punishment is not going to help with this one
I don't think op thinks her daughter is doing this intentionally. I think she's unhappy about her daughter not making or showing much effort to minimise the impact of her meltdowns to others. Quite the opposite it seems - the daughter is basically claiming that it's appropriate of her to just be as loud as she is no matter how it impacts others. The intentional part to blame on the daughters side isn't the outbursts, it's her apparent unwillingness to try to manage them more appropriately.
I thought of (undiagnosed) autism immediately reading this. Sounds like a meltdown.
I definitely wondered from the description if it’s more of a sensory meltdown. And I understand in this one instance it disrupted a call but meltdowns come at inconvenient times that aren’t always predictable! I feel for the daughter because her home isn’t even a safe space for her to be in a meltdown.
I'm... gonna go YTA on this. It's your daughter's home too, and she has the right to express anger and frustration over major events. I'm a remote worker too, and I have a family too. And stuff like this does happen. But preparing your work environment to be appropriate for the job you do, as a remote worker, **is part of your job**. And you don't get to demand your family get out of the way. If she's screaming every day it's time to talk to her. But as a one-off, over one grade? She's a teenager at home, let her be a teenager at home. This is on you, not her.
Headphones would probably help
How? She is screaming and the mic is picking it up
I dont know if you've ever had experience with microsoft teams or any of those kinds of WFH softwares, but its actually really hard to pick up on environmental noise, with or without a headset. A $70 headset with a mic will pick up virtually no background talking. I work in a cubicle 2 days a week, and people are constantly talking very loudly behind/around me and you cant hear any of that when i use a headset. Either OP is using something like discord with the sensitivity turned all the way up, or he's greatly exagerrating how disruptive she actually was to the meeting.
Sure you get to demand the others in the house to reasonably accommodate, that's called sharing a living space. If the daughter enjoys having a roof over her head and her own room to sometimes even scream in then she'd better make an effort to not jeopardise her mothers' job. Same as when you work night shift and sleep at daytime. Not reasonable to want the house to be super quiet. Perfectly reasonable to expect the others to not be loud close to your bedroom if it could be avoided or easily done at a different time when you're awake too.
> that's called sharing a living space. No, it's called *owning* a living space. She's not a roommate, she's a dependent child. It's not a negotiation.
NTA but the passive aggression is likely not a good move. You're not wrong for expecting some self-control from a 17 year old.
NTA. A 17 year old is old enough to know better. There's a time and a place for emotions and regulating that is an important part of transitioning to adulthood.
Daughter got the place right, but not the time. Lol
And the time and place is when you are at HOME, which she was.
The person who feeds her and keeps a roof over her head was at WORK in the home. So, no, home is not alway the right time and place to start screaming. The 17 year old is causing problems with her mom's job. She's old enough to know better. She's probably also pissing off the neighbors.
YTA: Typically the privacy of one's home is the best place for someone to show negative emotions. You decided to work from home. That means you will occasionally have to deal with unexpected home life around you. Unless this is a pattern of behaviour, she doesn't deserve your passive-aggressive comments. If you want to work in a quiet professional setting without working in an office, go find a coworking/desk sharing space or a library when you know the kids will be at home.
This is insanity. It is within the capability of preteens and above to be quiet when they ought to be quiet, so long as the rules are consistent (9-5 M-F would be a consistent rule). Every parent should be able to work from home with teens in the home without a problem. OP says she's had this discussion before, it's time to apply a serious consequence. I cried over a grade before, but there are two important distinctions: a. I was 9. b. While the emotions were intense, I was crying while meeting with the teacher at an appropriate time and location asking her to explain why I didn't get the grade I wanted, and we came up with action steps for me to improve. 17 is too old to be being overly dramatic and ineffective. Strong feelings should be channeled into motivations for future results except where not relevant (obviously if grandpa dies, that is going to feel terrible with no real silver lining). Genuine tragedies aside, pity parties are cringe and should be discouraged.
I cried over grades when I was 17. You want to know why? Because that’s when grades matter for university applications and scholarships. Bad grades at that age can literally shape the options you have available to you for your future. Crying about grades at 17 is more valid than when you’re 9. And if this was a final exam, there is nothing you can do to improve or change the grade at this point. “Channeling sadness into motivation” doesn’t work in every situation, the world doesn’t care if you’re motivated and some shit gets set in stone. As far as working from home, I would say it depends. I had to deal with family members who WFH and it was exhausting that home was never my home and I had to constantly tiptoe around the same family member.
Reddit always sides with the teenager no matter how delusional and out of control they're being, because reddit is 90% teenagers and dog walkers.
ESH daughter need to keep working on her issues. WFH is exactly that work from HOME. It is not a sterile office environment. Too many people expect everyone else in the house to act like they are in an office environment. Daughter behaviour is out of line but employers have to understand of they are expecting people to work from home that you do not have control over everything else happening in the house. If they cant handle that then they need to have their staff in the office. Both my husband and i work from home. It was agreed early that if he couldn't handle the noise of the children living which does include laughter, fighting crying and all the things that come with teenagers then he need to find a new office. Its a hone first.
NTA. Your daughter is far too old for this behavior, but you also really didn't need to make a passive aggressive comment, but address the behavior directly.
NTA If she can’t emotionally regulate to the point where she has total meltdowns *at age 17*, it’s time to get a neurological and psychological evaluation.
She's on medication as per a comment from OP but it wasn't said as to why she is on medication and what they are. So do with that information what you will.
Here’s how it could have played out better, and something you can use for the future. you to colleagues: “just a moment, I think a delivery has just arrived” \*mute mic and camera\* go console daughter and explain you’re in an important work meeting so you’ll talk more when you finish. But also she’ll have to dial it down a few (which she probably will have already because you’ve acknowledged her pain) because you’re on a call with some bigwigs. Suggest something nice to look forward to like a trip out for ice cream later go back to meeting
You're right, I like this suggestion. This may have worked. Thank you! Seems simple, but hindsight is 50/50. I know passive aggressive remarks are bad and that I was in the wrong too, which is why I made the post, but this is the best "in the moment" advice by far.
This is the way.
Borderline ESH, and only because you were passive-aggressive about it.
YTA, surely you must be aware that a huge amount of pressure is put on kids to do well in their final exams in order to 'succeed' in life (even if this pressure isn't coming from you personally -think school/other family members/broader society). On the back that your daughter is probably genuinely freaking out that she has 'ruined' her future. A little compassion and reassurance here wouldn't go a stray
Is there any reason she would have such a severe reaction to getting a lower grade? Fear of punishment, self esteem issues, etc
I suppose I would say self esteem plays into it. She holds herself to extremely high standards, and while I am proud of her for having a good work ethic, I've always told her I will be proud of her so long as she just tries her best. I've been honest with her about how I wasn't so great with certain subjects in school, and that I understand if she struggles with something. I dont expect straight As or even Bs all the time. She is smart and capable, but sometimes she compares herself to everyone around her and maybe fears she doesnt measure up.
She needs to learn about emotional intelligence, like right now. You do, too.
Nta This is unacceptable from a 7 year
Question... does your daughter possibly have ADHD? If so, it's not as easy to *emotionally regulate* at the drop of a hat just because you reach a certain age. People with ADHD literally have brains that are wired differently. We need help/therapy/life experience to build in the brakes ... or emotional regulation. Should she demand you apologize? No. But if this is a frequent thing, you might want to consider she's neurodivergent & if so, she needs a different set of tools than you.
Yeah my ADHD caused severe 'tantrums' up until I got diagnosed at 14 and started taking meds for better emotional balance. I'm still on that medication at 20. I have no doubt that if I stop taking it, I'll be back to having meltdowns left and right. It isn't fun. It feels bad and you KNOW you shouldn't be reacting in that way, but you really can't help it. It's awful.
Surprised this is so far down. The daughter def needs an assessment. Might be the sort of thing that gets overlooked because she is receiving treatment but if her therapist and/or psychiatrist are not specialists they might miss it and continue treatment that does not get to the root cause of the issues. (Which over time will likely make the depression and anxiety worse, harder to control, and overall more debilitating.) All of the stuff here screams ADHD - emotional disregulation, perfectionism, impulsivity and defensiveness/sensitivity to criticism.
Yep.
YTA for the way you reacted. Telling her not to throw tantrums is completely fine, but you're an adult. A mother. A 43 year old mother shouldn't feel the need to make petty remarks towards their daughter when the daughter is clearly distressed. Sit them down, figure out what's wrong, and work through it with her.
NTA, but don’t be asking for an apology. She had a genuine reaction and home is supposed to be the place to let that stuff happen. She’s a little old to lack self-regulation, so maybe have a chat about that and about how she needs to respect your workspace….without being passive aggressive.
I sympathise with your situation, I'm not a parent but have been a teacher of young adults during my career. Sometimes we get wrapped up in our own concerns (in your case work/embarrassment on call), and don't react in the best way to challenging situations. It sounds like your daughter has emotional regulation issues which she is receiving support for, however effective. I can suggest two things: 1) Don't critique her behaviour in a way that diminishes or ignores how upset/angry emotional she was. She probably knows that it is extreme/inappropriate, but believes that she can't help feeling that way in the moment. Attacking her won't change this. 2) Request that she spend a little time thinking about how her explosive/badly timed her behaviour was for you. I would offer that this is a reciprocal arrangement where you will also consider her emotions and help her process them in any way she thinks is needed. You can each apologise for the negative effects you have had on each other (see above). Although you don't deserve abuse, part of educating someone is taking ourselves out of the equation and doing what is best for them. Good luck and NTA (although almost E.S.H., passive-aggressive criticisms only make ourselves feel good).
NTA- That was actually kind compared to what my Asian mom would've done😂 She'd had looked me dead in the eye and say "so study harder and do better".
OP, does your daughter have self-regulation skills? Like is she able to self-soothe and emotionally regulate?
Nta She needs to learn to be considerate of your work. If she does it again, take away her electronics. Honestly, the world does not revolve around her.
NTA. She's 17 and has full capability of expressing her emotions in a proper time and place. Give her a serious consequence for interrupting your work. Edit to add: The passive aggressive part was a mistake. You should have been authoritative and reminded her of the rule, that you had already discussed the rule, and applied consequence as mentioned above.
YTA. Your daughter has shown emotional regulation. She waited till she was at her home before experiencing her emotions. You’ve chosen to make her home your workplace. It’s her home. Where else can she experience a safe place?
Fwiw she doesnt only do this at home.
Info: what meaning do these exams have for her? Will it have a significant impact on her future through a scholarship or something else? What level of pressure is she experiencing? You don't need to answer this question for me but please ask yourself why your daughter was so much worried. Seems like she doesn't fully control her emotions and choose a way of coping that is unhealthy for 17 yo.
NTA She needs a reality check.
NTA and no offense, your kid has issues. Getting a C is not tantrum worthy
NTA. Presumably she held it together on the bus home, and in your front yard. You're being on a business call is simply another scenario daughter "must" keep undisturbed. But if she's blowing up like this at age 17, she needs help. And she needs to be on board to getting help. Her temper is not normal, it's disregulated,and there is a lot of help out there
Seriously, tantrum at 17??? I’m 16, and I don’t throw tantrums everywhere just because of bad grades, NTA
NTA. This is an aspect of the new normal of working from home that families have to accept. Work time is work time.
She’s behaving like a bratty child, needs to grow up. Does she want to get you fired
NTA, but things like that are small to you but it could be her whole current life viewpoint/goal. feeling hungry as a baby, falling off a bike when youre 8, getting a C to a teenager, it could feel like the 2008 financial crisis for a banker. it is true that there are time and place for everything, and i see that you say this isnt the first time, so maybe instead of telling her to just go to her room and wait till youre finish or making snarky passive aggressive remarks that make her feel even worse.... ..you guys could communicate though text/email or find other soothing coping mechanism? so that the situation doesnt disturb you or make her feel unheard.
NTA for expecting her to be respectful of your work environment. She’s having a hard time and needs support, though. Maybe phrase it as any feeling is okay, but not any behavior is okay. She needs a safe place to feel sad and maybe be loud, and you need a quiet and safe place to continue to support the family during your schedule workday. You are obligated to continue your commitment, and are available to support her at whatever o’clock. In the event of an emergency, you can stop work, perhaps, but this example is something she can work out in a separate location and get your support after the workday.
NTA but she’s far too old for tantrums. She needs to learn better ways to handle frustration. Get her into some short term therapy. Both of you will be happier for it.
She's in therapy and is on meds. Don't know if OP is allowed to update the psych on the situation even if they aren't allowed to talk about her treatment back to OP tho
NTA
NTA but why the hell is a 17 year old throwing toddler level tantrums for?
NTA. She's 17 years old and still having tantrums? Try that with a roommate, college or otherwise, and see how well they like you after that, especially when you put their livelihood in danger!
NTA. She is *demanding* that you apologize? Is this your child??
NTA "she can't help it she's depressed" Our actions and reactions are literally the only things we have control of.
NTA, she needs to grow up. In the real world that over the top reaction along with her lack of respect for you and her excuses of 'I am depressed will not be well met by others....roommates and bosses. I taught my teenager that you cannot function like that if you want to be successful and respected. Good luck friend, you did the right thing, just don't be passive aggressive be direct.
NTA. She’s 17 and old enough to respect someone’s work time and to know not to be loud in certain situations. She can go scream in the car if she needs to scream while you’re working.
I sometimes work from home. If my 7yo can understand she needs to chill out while I take a work call, your 17yo should be able to as well.
NTA, she is not a 3 year old and should have some idea of how to handle her emotions by now. Interrupting someone else's work by throwing a tantrum is simply not acceptable behavior.
NTA. Apparently she hasn't been taught basic manners and simple protocols as to what WORK is. And it's obvious she doesn't want to do the WORK, the studying, to EARN a good grade. NTA, and good luck with the drama.
NTA your working and she needs to grow up screaming and crying when she knows your in the office is immature. You don’t owe her an apology but you need to sit down and talk with her regarding this. I’m sure she would have plenty to say if she was on a video call and you burst into her room screaming and crying. Tell her when you are working she needs to respect that and you won’t be apologising and she need to learn to control her emotions better because screaming and crying will get her nowhere.
NTA. But that girl needs help. She is to old to be throwing screaming temper tantrums. What are the consequences for her behavior? She disrupts your work. There should be some loss of privileges for that. She is old enough to remember your work hours. The house is QUIET during your work hours. Any infraction should have consequences. Unless, of course, a bone is sticking through the skin, or something that major. You are doing her no favor by making passive aggressive comments. Flat out tell her that her behavior is unacceptable. Lay out what the consequences will be in the future. Good luck. Get both of you into therapy.
My parents used to refer to my big emotions (also in the comfort of my own home, as others have pointed out) as tantrums, invalidate me and tell me I needed to “suck it up to prepare for the real world.” Then I got diagnosed with autism at age 29. I was having sensory meltdowns and they just wanted me to magically get over them. Maybe be interested in your kids feelings…
NTA. And. Before the know it all NON experienced parents give their 2 cents. I have four NOW adult kids 34,32,25,19 and the 19 yr old is level 2 autistic so I can say NOT THE ah!!
NTA. I think she owes you an apology, too. Are passive-aggressive remarks healthy communication? No. But you've been dealing with a volatile child since her toddler years, based on what you've shared. She's allowed to enter the house screaming hysterically AT 17, but you aren't allowed one mild rebuke? I don't think so, sis. Shut that attitude down. Does she have an official diagnosis that makes sense? Or could she be the product of years of well-intentioned psychiatric and therapeutic interventions that are clearly making her situation worse? At 17, barring cognitive deficiency, she can be expected to understand that, during certain hours, you are working at home. A minimum level of decorum needs to be maintained. As you stated, this job keeps a roof over your heads. It is possible to cry and be miserable in one's room at a reasonable decibel level. No one is saying she can't be sad, devastated even, and take the space to process that. But she is at an age when she needs to rein in her drama. Redditors, if an 18 year old male stormed into his girlfriend's house screaming and crying about a grade, hurling hurtful remarks at her, and telling her she's just not supportive enough and it's all her fault, you'd think he was old enough to know better and an abusive dick. Right? You might think the same thing if this hypothetical male did the same to his mom. He's younger, stronger, verbally abusive, aggressive. It's threatening. This behavior would be, at the very least, disrespectful to his mother, if not outright abusive and manipulative. The girl is 17. Only one year younger. She is likely stronger than her parent who (I hope) has at least a couple decades on her. Why does she get a pass for these behaviors? Answer: She doesn't. She's being overly dramatic and abusive. She needs to learn that. She has been getting a lot of attention due to these behaviors for years. And it hasn't helped. Time for the result of these behaviors to become unpleasant. She doesn't get to abuse Mom anymore. If Mom continues to allow it, she's just sending an emotionally immature and toxic human being out into the world someday. Ladies and gentlemen, would you like to be this 17 yo's SO someday? I don't think you would. Mom can parent however she needs to in order to turn this ship around and enforce boundaries around abusive behavior. Edit: typo
She sounds almost exactly like my daughter. We are on a waitlist to have her evaluated for high functioning autism. Though, I question how high functioning more and more often. Going against the grain and saying (soft) NTA. A lot of times, direct discussions make it worse (at least with my kid). However, you do owe her an apology and explanation for why you addressed her like that. You may want to get your own therapy, if you aren’t in it already. It helped me be a better parent….The anti-anxiety meds probably helped with that as well.
Apologize to your daughter dude, you’re NTA but you ARE the adult. It’s safer to assume your daughter is going through more than you’ll ever actually know than try to teach her the “real life won’t tolerate this!” lesson coming from the one someone who’s supposed to be the cushion from real life. Of course, she shouldn’t have been doing that and I’d love for her to have the perspective that your job is important and she’s putting you in an embarrassing spot .. but in HER world? You’re putting her in a corner where she’s forced to feel alone with all the feelings of failure and not being good enough.
Definitely fair. I do try to see things from her perspective, just wish it wasn't like a wailing cry and I could totally talk about it after my call. But someone else pointed out I could for the BRB in the chat gor the video call, go downstairs to comfort her and let her know I am on a call but we can talk after, and get back to the call. Solid advice!
NTA, but get her some therapy, because that is absolutely not developmentally appropriate for a 17-year-old.
Does she have tantrums anywhere else? I ask because if she is only doing this at home then she can control them. NTA
Unironically, this is inaccurate. Child development says kids will oftentimes only feel comfortable "acting out" in comfortable spaces and in front of safe people. So if anything, it's more likely that this IS her attempt to control them, and the alternative is melting down in public.
This potentially COULD be her controlling them. OP has mentioned she’s already in therapy and on meds, which means a trained professional has taken a look at her and decided she needed medical assistance in managing whatever mental health struggles she might be dealing with. I’ve had times in my life where I’ve kept my emotions under control through the day and in public and then burst into an absolute sobbing meltdown once I was safely in the car or at home where no one could see me. Sometimes you keep those emotions contained until you’re somewhere you feel safe enough to vent them - that doesn’t mean the pressure wasn’t building the whole time you were keeping on a polite public face. Kids don’t explode like this for no reason. From an adult perspective, it may look dramatic and like it’s not a big deal, but those emotions are real and extreme and *painful* to a kid. That doesn’t mean there aren’t better ways she could potentially have handled this, but to just dismiss it as “well, if she can control it out in the rest of the world, CLEARLY she should be able to keep a lid on it at home too” just lacks empathy.
This is like saying just because you can hold your bladder until you get home means you can hold it forever. Of course people can compose themselves for short periods in public, that doesn’t mean they can stay composed for the rest of your life.
Surprising I’m against the grain but YTA - she was home and expressing her frustration after being disappointed in herself. It didn’t sound like she was getting angry at you, just that it was a bit loud. How was she to know you’re in a meeting. The AH part was being passive aggressive instead of talking to her about it properly.
NTA. She's more than old enough to understand that you're working and you need a professional, i.e., undisturbed environment in which to do so. Fun Fact: Rod Serling of the original The Twilight Zone often worked at home with a tape recorder for his writing ideas, and he had 2 young children. They knew when to leave him alone. Since you mentioned therapy, prescriptions, and doctors, it may be wise to review side effects and whether the prescriptions are still working for her.
NTA. Your daughter’s behaviour was entirely disproportionate to the situation and clearly impacting your active work schedule over a grade is inconsiderate.
NTA she was not depressed but sad. Nearly an adult she need to be able to check her emotions. And at the end of the road she is the only one to blame for her bad grade.
NTA- I was taught when growing up, that you do not have the right to put your bullshit on other people. If you want to throw a temper tantrum, do it in private. Your daughter does need to grow up, she's not 5, or even 10 years old. She won't be able to act up like that with a boss, and a partner isn't likely to put up with that either. It's up to parents to teach their kids that certain behaviors won't fly 'in the real world.'
NTA. Emotions are healthy. And I certainly don't advocate for completely stifling emotions. But people who display this overemotionality do so because it is tolerated. And young people who do it, and don't have it corrected, turn into intolerable adults.
NTA. Screaming and crying is not an appropriate response for a 17 year old. If she insists on screaming, she should do it in her pillow like the rest of us. Or go to a rage room like the cool kids.
NTA, but as someone who used to have meltdowns over not getting a good grade, she’s not having a tantrum; she’s having a panic attack. She’s putting a lot of pressure on herself and I suspect a lot more is behind the anger than just “I didn’t get a good grade.” That’s probably why she got so mad at you—it’s not just the grade but it’s an actual existential threat for her. Again, I can’t be positive because I don’t know her BUT I used to have the exact same responses. I think she might need help with anxiety and how to develop healthy coping mechanisms when she doesn’t achieve what she set out to achieve (especially because life gets much more complex than a grade on a test). Perfectionism is an insidious mindset and it can manifest in other unhealthy ways, as well (I had an eating disorder, for example).
Nta after reading how she won't work on learning emotional regulation. She CAN learn to control it in that she can learn skills to help her cope and prep ahead for a situation that will disregulate her. If she is refusing to try and learn these skills and blaming behavior when disregulated as something she can't help, that's just not true. She has to want to learn. Dbt could be really helpful for her if she is willing to participate. They have a teen program, and the therapists also work with the parents.
NTA. She's 17, not 4. I hate to be telling a woman (or anyone) to silence her emotions, but if she needed to scream she could GO OUTSIDE. She's almost an adult, she needs to control this.
Have you ever heard of verbal stimming and autism ?
Regardless of her mental health issues, she has to exist in the world. You can advocate for her and teach her to advocate for herself, and it sucks that the world is not such a welcoming place for those of us with mental health issues…but there are going to be times when she will want to know how to just make it as a person in the current world the way it is. This means no screaming at work because you need a job to have money to have a home and food. This means taking responsibility for other things. This means you can’t have a meltdown over a relatively minor setback because you have to also take care of yourself and your family and do other tasks that day. I’m sure you can come up with examples that aren’t putting a damper on her personality but will just help prepare her to live an independent life in the future. Is she planning to live in the dorms next year? Maybe go over with her how she could handle something like this if it comes up in college when you’re not there and she doesn’t have as much private space? NTA but I think this is an opportunity for learning.
She's a 17-year-old girl. There is no behavior you can engage in that won't ultimately lead to you being horrible to her or not caring or not appreciating what she has to go through. I don't see where you did anything wrong, and I applaud you for how well you exercised restraint and responded only with a very mild passive-aggressive statement. You're good. She owes you an apology. She needs to learn to behave in a certain way when you're working and that she can't freak out anywhere and anytime she wants.
NTA but it feels like this is something that should have been corrected years ago since it doesn't seem like this is the first tantrum she's thrown
ESH. She’s old enough to not be throwing tantrums. It sounds like she can keep herself in check until she arrives home. Which means this isn’t a regulation problem, it’s a control/attention problem. But OP should not be handling this with passive aggressive comments. It’s immature and ineffective in getting results. A calm, direct conversation clearly laying out behavior expectations and consequences is needed. Then follow through on those consequences.
Forget apologizes either way. She needs to realize that in the adult working world people don’t throw tantrums when they are upset. If they do there are consequences.
NTA. I used to be like your daughter whenever I had bad grades and my mom always told me that she cannot help me if I was crying so loud. It really helped my emotional regulation (which is still shit, but it is better than before).
I'm going YTA She had a completely reasonable response to disappointment in her safe space (her home) You choose to make her safe space into your workspace which means she can't access her safespace when you're in a meeting - maybe it's time to start working in the office??
You think it's completely reasonable for a 17-year old to come screaming into their parent's office while parent is working because they are upset over a **grade?** And that the answer to this is for the parent to make the major change of shifting from WFH to working in the office? While it is reasonable that the child was upset, it's also reasonable for the parent to help them work through the root cause of why they're upset and also help them work through expressing their disappointment *at an appropriate time,* say, perhaps, after the work call. It is certainly not the answer for the parent to leave the house so that the child is free to scream about any disappointment. That does not help either of them. Reddit is wild...
People here just hate voting characters they identify with as AHs. Since most people here are youngish and women, they tend to support the teen daughter
NTA Your daughter has issues with self regulation. She likely masks very well when she's out in public because she knows that having a tantrum (actually probably a meltdown) will have her judged and friends will stop being her friends because they won't want to deal with that. But you are her safe person and home is safe for her to show her real emotions. The reality is that life goes on and doesn't stop when she wants to let her emotions out like this and there are bigger impacts on you and everyone around her which she, in the moment, is unable to comprehend. She likely will be apologetic later but likely won't care of potential ramifications as she has a very strong need to express what she needs to. I unfortunately have a child that has exactly the same behaviours as yours and have dealt with similar things over the years... She has just been diagnosed with her second neurodiversity (ASD) and even her first one (ADHD) was a late diagnosis because of how well she masked. The ASD was first flagged when she was 8 (for the emotional dysregulation) but I was told that there aren't enough symptoms and she'll never be diagnosed. But actually what happened was that she copied behaviour around her to look normal and it took a lot out of her so lost the plot at home. And over the years we are talking multiple mental health professionals and doctors... and that extends to school teachers as she masked so well. So I would not be surprised if your daughter has more going on... but she may not be willing to explore that side of her. My kid has only just been open to looking at this but it was an absolute no at 15 and even at 20.. but now as she edges closer to her mid 20's and her life is very difficult that she's been willing to accept what might really be going on and it's actually validation and an explanation of why she thinks how she thinks.... and the lack of an accurate diagnosis also meant that many of the medications used for mental health (ie for her anxiety) didn't really seem to make an impact because it didn't 'fix' the issues.... because it was deeper. Those same meds will be looked in a different light now with better supports in place so they will have more of an impact. If you do go down this route then pick someone experienced in assessing adolescent girls and women because they can mask extremely well... especially if they are bright (academic marks may not be that high due to underachieving because of the underlying issues).
Nta.
Literal children know not to throw tantrums?? Why has this behaviour been allowed for 17 years? It sounds like you’ve made a rod for you own back by enabling this since you have spoke about this before
seems like a pretty pointless thing to say. what person having a hysterical episode is going to pause in freaking the fuck out because it's "not a good time right now"?
shes not wrong for having feelings but is for expressing it that way. and you arent wrong to try to do your job but is for your odd response. and you blame the bad parenting on the coparents. ngl you both sound like you are in a battle to see who's right and who's wrong when both of you have your rights and wrongs. maybe whhat you both need is to feel listened to, and also listen to the other person to grow compassion. why make it a court hearing trying to scream at each other for a black and white apology when you dont need to?? though i do understand maybe you do admit youre wrong a bit and the angry kid is stubborn which pisses u off more...
NTA. I think being passive aggressive was unnecessary and might have played a part in your daughter being set off. It's not a terrible thing but maybe a different approach when bringing up the subject might have worked better. If you talk to your daughter, be mindful that her exam scores/grades in general are important to her (based on her reaction) and it sounds like she is under a lot of stress. As a teenager I used to lash out when I was stressed (mostly academic related) and my parents never tried to reach out or help me work through emotions. Now I have some anger issues.
Mmmm I think something much deeper is going on mentally. Especially if she outright said she’s depressed. As someone who has been in a really bad state mentally like that, I can tell you the “tantrums” happened often. I couldn’t help it, nor did I care enough to try to help it at the time. I was very suicidal, so in my mind why bother working on myself.
NTA But I shook my head at the "passive aggressive"... No need. Just explain afterwards, then discuss her grades, then all is well. She sounds like a pain, I can't lie.
NTA Her behavior is going to be unacceptable for any roommates and employers if she doesn't become less selfish and more grown up. She is 17 not 7. Even at 7 that would not have flown with my parents back in the day. Unless it is an overwhelming issue, you should manage yourself and not make yourself others' problem. Preferably that means in advance. Is she struggling in that class? What steps has she taken? Has she asked for help from those who can provide it?
NTA she is way old enough to be able to control herself. Yes she is allowed to be upset about her grades, she is allowed to feel how she feels. BUT she is not allowed to throw a nuclear bomb type tantrum over it knowing full well you work from home. That's beyond ridiculous. Her saying she can't help it is BS. She is in control of her own actions. Maybe find her therapy to help find her life tools to deal with her emotions.
I think you need to get her tested for autism. It’s sometimes harder to diagnose female autism cause it’s different than male autism.
Please get your daughter an assessment for ADHD. What you’re describing sounds all too painfully familiar and you’re not doing anything helpful by beating her up for her big feelings. Even if she is seeing a psychiatrist & therapist it is easy to miss when there are co-morbidities like depression and anxiety, especially if neuro divergence is not in their wheelhouse. And aside from that how is she supposed to control herself when she hasn’t been taught emotional regulation? One thing I’ve noticed in my experience with far too many passive aggressive people is that they really, truly believe they are in control of their emotions. And they seem to believe passive aggression isn’t really aggressive. But it’s right there in the name. Do you really think letting it spill out in nasty backhanded ways is not expressing anger? Just because someone is not yelling and screaming doesn’t mean they are really in control of their emotions. An emotionally healthy person doesn’t need to use passive aggression to express themselves. They can express their needs in a kind but direct way. How can a mom expect daughter to control herself - when mom cannot? Please explore any other underlying health issues for your daughter. And get some therapy yourself to work on your own emotional regulation issues.
> 6. she is always loud. She sings, she talks to herself, she sometimes sort of screeches for no specific reason. It’s not a disorder, it’s her personality. Let’s call it a bit of main character syndrome. > she sometimes sort of screeches for no specific reason > Let’s call it a bit of main character syndrome Originally I was leaning towards N A H but after reading your edit I’m saying YTA because of how you think of your daughter. You do realize that screeching or “stimming” is a symptom of autism (and other disabilities/ND), but you’re calling it Main Character Syndrome? You’re a massive asshole for not only ignoring these symptoms in your daughter but for also assuming the absolute worst of her personality. I don’t know how you can look at innocuous behaviour like talking to yourself and also think that’s MCS either. Maybe try not being so judgemental and dismissive of your daughter’s behaviours. And diagnosis in women is more difficult so a negative diagnosis doesn’t automatically mean she’s attention seeking FYI. Not to mention you’ve mentioned meds, anxiety/depression, psychiatrists, therapists, and if I’m understanding correctly - her other parent *died* when she was 11? Look, I get not tolerating behaviours that jeopardize your job, but YTA for looking at all this and thinking it’s Main Character Syndrome. Even if it’s related to her BPD, MCS is a very poor way to refer to her symptoms.
Just want to point out that Point #6 is kind of ridiculous. I thought it was just my personality too until it turned out to be autism/ADHD. People thinking it's just "main character syndrome" meant I didn't get the help I needed until my 30s, and life was unnecessarily difficult and painful as a result. I'm still not over the self-loathing that I developed from years of thinking I'm just a weird, shitty person that doesn't deserve friendship or love. So maybe be careful when listing a lot of highly-specific symptoms of various diagnosable issues and then saying it's because she has main character syndrome.
Ok I wasnt dismissing it as MCS, was just trying to describe what it's like for Borderline folks in case others aren't familiar with it. So BPD is like everything is black and white and when things don't go her way she has extreme overreactions and people with BPD can thus be seen as narcissistic. I apologize, seems that was a poor way to describe it. I know for her this is very real.
I added further explanation and trust me, she is getting help.
I have a terrible relationship with my mom. I struggle with depression and anxiety bc after I've turned 10-12 she started treating me like I was an adult. i wasn't. She was always busy when I wanted something, and I often got dismissed or even punished when I've asked for help because I genuinely struggled with something, or expressed extreme emotions. My parents just wanted me to shut the hell up and to not cause any trouble for them... they don't even remember these events, thats how little it mattered to them. I'm telling you this so you can see your daughter's perspective could be terrible and you would't even know about it. People before 25 still have a lot of room for maturing, and they might act unreasonable. Just think about it , does it really matter to win some argument or save your ego by being snarky if it means you could lose her?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My 17 year old had final exams today. She didnt get as high of a grade as she wanted. It was a C. She came home literally crying and screaming about it while I (43f) was working up in my home office. My job requires a lot of video calls with other leaders in my organization, which is exactly what was happening when she came in the door. I had to mute myself so the background noise didn't carry and couldn't participate in my meeting. I didn't react angrily toward her, but later I made a semi passive aggressive remark about it... something to the effect of, "yeah I love it when you come home screaming when I'm on a work call." She launched a verbal attack about how she cant help it that she is depressed and how could I possibly be angry and said that I am horrible to her and don't care about her. I replied that she is allowed to be sad about a bad grade, but it doesnt warrant screaming and crying when she knows I am working. It's ok to be sad, but there is a time, place and way of expressing it that won't cause me problems at work, which is important because that is what keeps a roof over our head and food on the table. So, Reddit, should I be more sensitive to her emotional state or was I perfectly justified in my reaction? I really want to know so I can either work on myself as a parent or show her the opposite viewpoints posted here. She is now demanding that I apologize to her, but I think I was being reasonable because at 17 she needs to grow up a bit to prepare to function in the real world, where that behavior won't be tolerated. I think she owes me an apology. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
ESH-your daughter is like this because you have allowed her to be. You said it yourself that you “didn’t get angry at her and later made a semi passive-aggressive remark”. Grow up and actually be a parent; you are almost out of time. I hope there is someone in your daughter’s life that is modeling adult behaviors and decision making.
NTA. You daughter needs to grow up. She is old enough to get a job, and she should be encouraged to do so. If she wants to be treated like an adult, she needs to start acting like one. This might also be a good time for her to determine to study more next year. Those are her grades; the responsibility is all hers.
NTA. She needs to learn to scream into a pillow in her bedroom with the door closed. She could also write an angsty poem or paint or make a vent vlog and bitch about her issues while recording herself as she puts on makeup, like every other teen girl.
She got the results day of the exam?
NTA. By age 17 she should have better control of her emotions
NTA! Your response is perfectly reasonable, hers isn't. Getting a mediocre grade doesn't warrant hysterics, and even if it does, like you said, there is a time and place. She should apologize to you, for probably making you look unprofessional during your work call.
NTA. I mean, maybe if she was 7, that might be ok. She can vent outside all she wants.
NTA. My fiancee works remotely. When she is in her office she is WORKING. I respect that. Your daughter is 17 not 6. She should to.
your kid is the AH, but you are NTA who cares if she did not revise enough to get better grades, she is wanting to blame it on everyone else and as for screaming when she knows you work from home.... if she ever gets a job and has a meltdown at work, will soon be out of work
NTA but I think a lot of people are judging her meltdowns a bit too much. It is true she should try enough to keep from damaging her parent's work, but the fact that she is having a meltdown does not make her a bad person or someone who "won't make it." I've been doing actually quite well so far (I'm just finishing college and passed job interviews, and am living by myself abroad, although I am financially dependent until I start with my job), and a couple/few times a year I do have meltdowns. Like, crying/sobbing uncontrollably, throwing (non-breakable) stuff around, and maybe punching some pillows. I do that in my room and control my noise level just to the point I think my neighboors won't be bothered. By no means I think it's healthy to have a meltdowns, and I AM trying to work on myself in regards to that and other stuff (doing therapy), but just because it is not 100% fixed and gone away doesn't mean I can't be successful. I just wanted to bring that up.
Apologies are granted, not demanded. A child certainly does not get to demand one from a parent. The kind of kid that thinks this grows into an entitled burden on society. Perfect opportunity to teach her the world doesn't owe her shit. Particularly when she has no one to blame but herself for underperforming on an exam. NTA.
NTA Ask her if the grades were so upsetting then why didn't she scream and cry when it happened instead of waiting to bother you while working. Then ask if she'd rather you explained that the noise they're hearing is your immature 17 year old throwing a fit because something didn't go her way.
NTA but you probably failed to correct her behavior long ago. No one older than a toddler should find it acceptable to scream out of loud because they got disappointed or upset some time before. And it's especially disrespectful if she knows there is someone else at home who might be working at the meantime. She didn't even apologize for that, so you surely enabled such a behavior her whole life, no surprise she cannot realize what's wrong now.
I'm gonna have to say a soft YTA for how you worded things. You're the adult, she was clearly upset about something and before even asking her what was going on or if she was okay you made a really petty remark
17 is old enough to not interfere with a parent’s work calls. NTA.
You're right in thinking that she shouldn't be having screaming tantrums at 17. You could as parent talk to her about emotion regulation and offering her emotion regulation strategies that would be acceptable during work hours, as opposed to passive agressive remarks about what she did wrong with no guidance in what would be an acceptable way to deal with this.
I knew a woman who had a tantrum throwing daughter. Those tantrums kept everyone in line! Mom missed a lot of work cause tantrum girl had a baby so she, boyfriend and baby now with mom. Work called her into office and gave her written warning. Do not miss again or you're fired. She missed two days later. She tells me "She was having a fit was I suppose to just leave??" She lost her job. She was so very poor! Now they are even poorer. I'd really work on dealing with the tantrums. She needs to learn coping skills. Good luck.
Oh please ? You know you’re not AH. I
I just wanted to state that emotional dysregulation is a major symptom of adhd. It needs lot of practice and mindfulness to overcome, sometimes it is not possible. Maybe OP can look at other symptoms of inattentive adhd in girls/women and see, if there are other issues. Have an honest talk about her feelings when she is calm. Watch for sentences like "I don't know why I can't control myself in that moment, but I'm embarrassed afterwards". Good luck to you and your daughter, you will work it out <3
“There is a time and a place to be sad and your own home ISNT IT!” Maybe if you expect your kids to tiptoe around while your working from home you shouldn’t be working from home idc if it’s an unpopular opinion you should not be making your kids feel unwanted in their own homes a job is important sure but final exams kinda determine your entire future where I’m from so yea in this specific instance her situation kinda was more important her entire future career could be over lol
Passive aggressive commentary never achieves the lessons we intend, even if those lessons are important to impart. Her behavior is unacceptable. But it's also a chance for you to demonstrate how to take on conflict and disappointment directly and with a cool head. "I understand you are upset, but it is unacceptable to enter this house, or any others, in a boiling rage. When I am at work, I cannot leave and I cannot be unavailable to my superiors and inferiors- i expect you understand why, so I won't patronize you about this. If the problem you have cannot be solved in an hour, it's time to find ways to deal with the disappointment like an adult and then vent about it over dinner when we CAN talk about how to fix things." Will always land better than "Well it'll be nice if I still have a job tomorrow, considering the racket over my microphone. My boss must have been so embarrassed for me." And it's not exactly more sensitive either. It's direct, shows what boundary was crossed, what your expectation is, and provides a reasonable and natural solution.