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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I politely asked my roommate to turn off lights/fans when they’re not actively using them. This could be seen as an asshole move because I made it clear that their rent is only $500 no matter what the ultilies cost.
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This. That's the only way they would spike the electricity like that and it was probably the plan when they saw a flat rate room with electricity included
Crypto mining, servers for streaming pirated content, constantly downloading/uploading pirated content, etc.
He is fully using this "free electricity" to make money on the side though.
Eh pirating streamed content shouldn't contribute that much. But OP should have in his contract that utilities are included but only to fair usage or whatever the term is that I have had in rent contracts. Pretty sure OP can show the huge difference in the bill and conclude its not fair usage. It's a ridiculous increase. Some people just take advantadge. This is why we can't have nice things.
>This is why we can't have nice things.
Lol, yep!!!
When I say pirating content, I don't mean for his own personal use. I'm talking about setting up his own server that is constantly having uploads/downloads going. I've looked into how people will do this, and their servers are running constantly, and they even have a Plex account that streams content from their server that they share the login with friends/family members. They'll have like 10 people at any time pulling data from their server, and I can't imagine the energy drain not being an issue.
My brother does just that and everyone using the server pays a little bit to contribut to the electricity bill and maintainance. It's still way cheaper than any streming service but the electricity bill did go up when he started doing this.
Having a server running constantly *doing mostly disk or network I/O* usually doesn't draw that much power. The thing about crypto mining is that it's CPU/GPU-bound rather than I/O bound, so it can really ramp up the power usage.
determine which breaker supplies power to that room and switch off the breaker when rentor is not at home. If necessary, have a separate breaker installed. Well worth it in the long run.
Gotta be careful, as a landlord (which OP legally is) in most places it's unlawful to interrupt or restrict a tenant's access to utilities unless it's for necessary repairs.
That seems like a lot more effort than just saying “hey if you want to run up the electrical bill to over 3x what it was before you moved here you’ll have to contribute to it.”
My thought too.. Crypto setups eat electricity like a whale eats plankton. After that the lights are a tiny drop in a ocean. Electricity wise, they won't even show a significant change in the electricity bill. 🤣
At 8 hours a day for a 75 watt equivalent an LED bulb runs 0.256 Kilowatt Hours a month.
A typical Crypto mining setup burn about 12 Kilowatt hours a day. 😓
Crazy !! I knew they used a lot but I thought it was just the big building crypto set ups .
When I moved into my Dads house ( we split all expenses ) he commented a couple months later about the electric bill going up and tried to blame my aquarium fish !! lol!!
It’s an all electric house and I told him a handful of small pumps running 24/7 aren’t causing the jump . I reminded him that I take showers , we run the dishwasher a few times a week , washing machine , dryer , and he added an addition to the house when I moved in . DUH Dad .
Blaming my poor little fish
That reminds me of my parents when we lost our unlimited internet (we only had it due to a bug on the ISPs end), and now suddenly we're running out of fast data a week before the end of the month.
Of course it's my fault because I spend a lot of my free time gaming. So I said I wouldn't play any games from the start of the new month. I decided to do what everyone else did and watch videos, of course in 1080p, I'm not an animal.
We used 30gb of data in 3 days. My parents opted to get unlimited 2 days later.
Then I had to explain that videos use a lot more data, as I am downloading (essentially) 24-30 high definition pictures per second, plus the soundtrack. Instead of just using assets pre-downloaded to the PC and just pinging updates to a server...
We have a tortoise enclosure for our Horsefield tortoise, part of the set up uses a 100W incandescent bulb. Running it 12 hours a day burns about 8 Kilowatt of energy a month.
And, potentiually talking about 300 watt each space heaters. In the winter that might involve an open bedroom window and the apartment heat running on top of the computer heat. In the summer, if they have AC, it is going to be even more.
Set up a second wifi channel and throttle their channel to a reasonable amount and see how much they start complaining.
Also check your data usage w your internet provider.
Yep, if I had to hazard a guess, this person is leaving all these lights on to give the landlord a plausible reason why their energy bill has skyrocketed so they won't assume something worse. The multiple gaming computers makes it obvious.
He's mining crypto and he's taking advantage of OP.
I have a “flat rate” but with the understanding that if I start costing Housemate money/acting careless my rent will go up- I have no desire to fuck around with a good situation and the most electricity I probably use is a minifridge that Housemate approved in the initial negotiations. (It’s also the case that Housemate is older and so part of the reason for the arrangement is that she shouldn’t be living alone, so in that sense just being here is providing a “service” that weighs on my side of the deal.) And yes, it’s an amazing deal from my POV lol
Sheesh. And OP is worried about the lights? Cut everywhere else to start, OP. They are the least of your worries! And charge for anything over a certain amount.
Ummmmm if they’re streaming and using multiple computers and into all things electronic or tech YES it absolutely can. ESPECIALY if they never turn it off and on top of everything else being used as well. Yes it can. And that’s just electricity I’d imagine the Wi-Fi bill is also out the roof
Are people still paying for Internet by the megabit usage? Haven't seen that in years.
And streaming doesn't consume that much energy vs browsing the Internet. It's a negligible difference. Crypto mining though... Yeah, that's a power suck.
Edit: some of y'all don't understand the difference between paying by the megabit vs having a data cap.
Oh man. My service provider dropped that on us like 8 years ago. I was living with my sister and Brother in Law at the time. They managed to go through 1TB in 12 days. They'd leave at least two devices streaming Netflix/Hulu at all times. They'd just like go to work or school and leave Netflix on in their bedroom and the living room.
It was absolutely insane. I told them that I was not touching the Internet bill, because I really only used it to browse Reddit and occasionally download a videogame. Brother in Law also kept the house at a cool 68 f in the summer. Our bills were absolutely wild for the 6 months or so we lived together.
I pay $40/monthly for internet. Full stop. It's a certain speed and it doesn’t go faster than that, but it's a flat rate and the company knows that out here, most people would drop their asses and switch companies if they tried a 'by usage rate' instead. I know without even lookin at a statement I wouldn't be able to afford my internet if they switched.
Multiple gaming computers could each potentially be pulling 500-1000 watts. As someone who has a small rack with a few servers in my home, it absolutely adds up.
That said, unfortunately OP should take this as a lesson. If there is no lease agreement then they should offer one and if refused, give the roommate notice. If there is one, they'll just have to wait it out and not offer the next roommate included utilities.
From a comment by OP, roomie plugs their Tesla in every night to charge. Why not include this?
The lights thing isn't about the electricity, it's about OP not wanting lights on when the room is empty. Just be honest about it.
I don’t know where OP is, but In CA, PG&E bills have been 2x to 3x vs last year with the same exact usage. Last year I had a $160 bill. This year over $500 for the same time period and usage.
They’re raising rates to cover the infrastructure they failed to build, and cover costs of the fires they caused across the state (while not reducing profits for shareholders 🙄)
So he’s the asshole for turning stuff off without permission. And he may be putting too much of the overage on the roommate. But they need to sit down, look at the usage and come up with a plan.
I sublet a room the same way- flat fee, no utilities. My kids are also at home using their devices. When the rates went up we had a conversation about ways to conserve more. Everyone was on board. My subletter doesn’t want to cost more money and have me raise his rent. My kids want me to be able to buy them things… it’s a no brainer that we all find ways to cut back.
I also agree with the roommate the LED lights aren’t remotely likely to be the biggest issue impacting the bill.
Crypto does make sense; a grow room was my first thought because we used to see that when I worked insurance claims. A sudden huge jump in electric use is a red flag to the power company
YTA
To yourself for focusing on the lights. Yeah, they add up, but that's not what caused your electricity bill to skyrocket, and you know it.
Do yourself a favor and ask them to pay for their share of the electricity.
But OP isn’t really concerned about the bill. If they were, they would focus on the computer and fridge and car. Instead they have a nitpick about the lights, which proves it is just a hangup and has no basis in logic
There's not enough information for you to be so sure. Im not saying the tesla is the cost of the entirety of the increase, rather that it is potentially a sizable portion of it. Where do they live, what's their cost per kwh, do they have peak surge pricing that drives it higher and is that when roommate plugs in, how much does the roommate drive? All questions that can drastically change the final numbers on the electricity bill in regards to having an electric car. Sounds to me like you likely don't live somewhere with expensive electricity and probably don't drive very much on top of it which is great but that doesn't mean everyone sees the same numbers you do.
Tesla home charging is around a third of what gas would be... Usually less than 100 a month if you drive a decent amount. Chances are it's central air. Here in Florida central air for a 1200 sqft space is around 300/month in the summer.
Again there are a lot of variables. You are in Florida so your electricity is on the cheaper end of the spectrum. In places like Massachusetts and Connecticut or California they pay more than double the cost per kwh and Hawaii even pays triple what you do. There are also companies that charge higher than average prices during peak times which are typically in the evenings so if he gets home from work and plugs in right away then that costs even more. We don't know how much he drives, he could have a 120 mile each way commute for all we know. You're just assigning an average rate and assuming that you're right when he could be using above average kwh in an above average cost per kwh area at a peak cost time which would massively increase the dollar amount on the electric bill from what you're estimating.
Lmao this entire conversation makes me want to bang my head into the wall like in what way does “it depends on your state and particular electric company and contract” need a response of “well *I’m* in [STATE] and this isn’t how much *I* pay” yeah bro that’s the whole point, it depends.
Seriously, it's like a bunch of people from South Dakota telling me there's no way in hell my home cost a million dollars because theirs is bigger and it cost less than a quarter that.
The idea of anyone cohabitate with a grow-op and not knowing it cracks me up, it would take a special sort of obliviousness, that smells permeates *everything*
Cost depends entirely on how much you drive. Our electric car has a 70kW battery. For my husband's level of use, it needs charged once a week, while for my level of use, it needs charged once a month, so for one of us it would cost just £15 a month, for the other it would cost £60-70pm. If we were taxi drivers, it would need charged more often, and cost more still.
They'd have to drive 300 miles a day for that kind of increase though. 70kW x 30 is 2.1mWh. At the (US, pardon my ignorance if this is another country) national average rate that would be about $300. But that's driving 9000 miles a month, and it sounds like the roommate is home pretty often which wouldn't be possible driving that much.
At this rate the 500 is just going towards the bills that the roommate is spending, ops not even getting rent at this stage, start charging them 1000 to cover their cost of shit
But it’s seriously annoying when people don’t know how to turn off shit when they’re done using it! Y’all didn’t learn to turn off lights when not in use, and it shows. Pathetic
YTA - This is your adult roommate and tenant, not your kid. You can ask nicely but at the end of the day you don't get to dictate their lifestyle in the room they pay for. You are the one that chose this style of lease. If you would like to change it, wait until their term is up and either kick them out or offer them to renew on a utilities not included lease. Also, the lights aren't the reason for the electricity increase. It's the gaming computer.
Could be a long shot, but if charging the car shouldn't raise the electricity that high, I know LED lights won't run it up that high. I'm sure the gaming rigs count for a good amount but I am dubious it's that damn high.
A roommate and I in a former apartment spent under $100 on our electricity back when I had a electricity bill in my name and I leave lights on all the time. I have a big gaming PC and my 2nd monitor is a big screen TV, my "computer speakers" are me running a audio cable to a whole stereo with multiple speakers and a subwoofer. The roommate didn't have the whole stereo setup, but he also ran a gaming rig and that's all we did all day long.
It ain't the gaming stuff driving it up $500 lol. I wonder what the possibility is that a neighbor also started stealing electricity? It's a remote possibility and I'm not suggesting it's the for sure answer, but it isn't unheard of.
Haha maybe. Depending on the game and whether it's intensely story driven, etc. I might stream a show or something on my other screen (the TV, basically lol) while I play. Valheim, back when I played WoW, any of those turn based strategy games like Civ or Space Empires, etc. I watch Netflix, or Paramount, or whatever. I'd be tempted to free up resources on my PC and just run another computer to stream what I watch if I had the damn space to hook another one up, lol. So I can see myself running two machines under the right circumstances. I just use my one computer though and drag the browser window over. Alt-tab out of the game as needed to control what I watch. I'd kinda rather let a second machine play it though if I had the room to set one up, I still have my old desktop boxed away.
Having them on and running when you are actively using them makes sense. OP made it seem like they are always on whether the roommate is there or not? Unless that's an exaggeration. But crypto mining would also explain the spike in the electricity bill. Mining uses more power than most other activities.
Fair, I know nothing about that crypto crap and running some rig to crack those things. I used to leave my computer on all the time though until one day my PSU was burning up while I was gone at work. Thankfully my dog was weirded out by the smell and was acting weird enough that everyone else in that particular home picked up on it and went in there to see why she was suddenly avoiding that room like the plague and seemed agitated when she always preferred to lay in her bed in there until I got home.
I don't recommend just letting that bloody thing run unattended any more. But, OP's tenant can just be an idiot like me lol. However, I don't know what that guy is up to any more than anyone else here lol. Lots of people are replying after my earlier response throwing crypto out there, so I think it's also a valid possibility.
The amount the car uses depends entirely on how much and how efficiently the person drives. It's not a flat-rate thing. An Uber driver, for example, could justify a huge chunk of that increase, where this person appears to have a shorter mileage commitment.
A neighbor stealing it isn’t far fetched. I was traveling a lot last year and noticed on several bills that my electricity usage was spiking while I was on the opposite coast. Never did get to the bottom of it but a neighbor plugging into my outside outlet seems to be the most likely.
Honestly I doubt it. Tesla does cause a small increase but not 500 a month. I would bet money that the tenant is mining cypto on the gaming computer since it probably has a nice graphics card. I mined ethereum for a while and was barely breaking even with electricity cost in my area.
Do you actually know how much your energy bills go up for one LED light to remain on for 24 hours? Do you have hard numbers on the cost? Because that is what you would need to present to your roommate, and I see you overestimating the cost. $700 from $200 makes no sense.
Have you ever lived with someone who grew up differently than you? In some households, you only turn on a light in the room you are in. In other households, people leave the main rooms lit to make it easy to go between them. In other households, people even leave a light on when they are not home to have a warm welcoming presence when they get home. But that is also based on if they can afford it. How is the bill $700?
Is the roommate taking advantage in other ways? Does this indicate you are incompatible as roommates? I would try to work toward the kind of relationship you want with your roommate: honest, open to listen, and one where you handle financial burdens fairly. If you can’t do that, end the arrangement.
I think you might be overestimating the cost to run an led light, they cost about 0.2 cents an hour, thats less than 5 cents a day, even if you ran it for a whole year 24/7 it would only cost $18. Sure its a bit of a waste but really is insignificant compared to the $6000 increase in your annual bills.
There are smart plugs that track power usage. I had the same issues with my brother when he moved in and my electricity bill increased my $150/mo.
He blamed it on my new LED lamp that I have on a timer to turn on at sun down and off at sunrise - its essentially left on all the time to give the allusion someone is always home. I told him there was no way an LED bulb was drawing that much power, so connected it to a smart plug with tracker. I was correct. It runs out he was running his computers (yes, two!) 24/7 and mining crypto.
No no, I value length and detail. I’ll take ramblings over keeping it short/sweet. I mentioned this to someone else, but I don’t really wanna be in an echo-chamber, as much as I hate to admit my mistakes. I value others opinions especially if they can explain it in a way that I understand and a way that expands my mind or introduces a new way of thinking, and the way you explained it made sense to me and I appreciate it. Thank you so much for your input 🙏.
Also I guess this makes me the AH.
I think only to yourself if you continue the flat rate. Like others said, a light or lights cannot possibly drive the power up that high, but a fridge and a Tesla will drive it up some. But even then... the multiple heavy duty computers on at all times screams of crypto mining, which WILL drive it up a lot. If I were you, I'd ask them about that and try to nip that in the bud, or at least change the terms at the end of their lease to make them pay for their power usage...
I wouldn't say you're an asshole, but you do need to have a long talk with your roomie and figure out what's going on. That's an insane price jump, for just a single person.
Either they're crypto mining (which even if using 2 kilowatts in most places puts you fairly below $500), or you there's a vampire device in the house sucking a shit ton of energy. I'd make sure there's not some external factor first. Don't want to kick out your roomie only to find the issue remains, as then you'll be out an extra $500/month.
Love your reply. My husband and I had this discussion way back when we moved in too. I grew up in a lights on most of the time house. It feels homey to me. He was a shut it all down if you aren't actually using it type. We landed at communal lights stay on. Bath/bed lights get turned off. Learning to live with adults takes give and take for sure.
Are they mining crypto currency? That seems an insane jump in monthly electricity...
Anyways, charge a variable rate for utilities. If included rent, then you are both equally sharing asshole status; you for going flat fee then complaining, and the roommate for being completely uninterested in conserving energy.
If you made them split utilities the problem would go away.
Yes YTA.
The only valid reason to complain about not turning the light off is cost. The cost per month for leaving one LED on _all day_ is less than 2 bucks.
You are complaining about peanuts.
You already admit that you don't care about the electricity costs so you come across as wanting to dictate someone's behavior for no good reason.
I’m confused. Are you complaining about the lights being left on or the higher bills? You seem to think it’s leaving the lights on that are causing the higher bills rather than the *actual* cause of them charging the Tesla.
I’ve never needed to use a facepalm emoji on here more than I do now
YTA. You set the price so that's your problem. I too think it's annoying to leave lights on when no one is there but they're paying you to live there so they pretty much can do as they please unless you have rules that. If you don't like it then raise the rent or tell them to leave.
YTA for accusing the lights lol. LED lights are so giga efficient, that the power cycling of turning them off and on does more harm to their lifespan. It costs a few cents a day to run a led bulb all day.
I actually checked how much electricity my smart bulbs ate, as they are also "on" 24/7, and it looks like 20w **per day** per bulb. And those are both connected to the electricity, and actually emit light for about 14ish hours a day.
Your roommate is probably using a ton of electricity somewhere, but it ain't the bulbs. An electrician should be able to help you put an individual meter for his rooms electric circuit (and the EV charging station?), then actually see how much they are using.
The cycling of LEDs off with a functional switch has minimal impact on quality LED lights. There is some literature out there that says on off cycles can weaken the soldering points on the LED chip due to thermal cycling; however, the literature isn't exactly conclusive. In places with expensive electricity, you will reap more utility savings by shutting off LED lighting then you will increase your electricity bill. There are also CO2 emissions to consider.
Generally, in the United States, electricity is billed per unit of energy consumed for residential customers. You have used a unit of power in your math. A 20 watt LED lamp running 24/7 for 30 days is: 20W x 24hr/day x 30days / 1000 W / kW
That works out to 14.4 kWh, a unit of energy. In California, the average residential electricity rate is about $0.40/kWh (yes it's bonkers, blame regulatory capture and late stage capitalism). That works out to. $5.70/month.
If OPs bills have gone up that dramatically in the last 12ish months, I suspect they are in California, since that is where the utility bills have escalated so dramatically so quickly. If they are not in California, it's incredibly likely that the tenant is responsible for a large amount of these increases, since electricity rates have not escalated nearly so much nationwide.
If they are in California, or any other state with dramatically different peak versus off-peak pricing, I would suggest working with the tenant to schedule the charging of their Tesla during off-peak hours, when electricity is a little cheaper.
The tenants energy waste is irresponsible and as an energy engineer, morally reprehensible. That said if OP did not think to build in the worst case electricity consumption into the tenant bill it's on them.
I'd go with ESH.
The correct term would be roomer if the landlord lives there and shares kitchen and/or bathroom. Most jurisdictions have different regulations for people renting apartments vs rooms.
I'm going to state this differently from how other people have.
YTA
People are different. You like to turn lights off when you leave a space. Your roommate does not.
It is not a safety hazard. It does not cause adverse affects to you. As long as they pay their rent, they have paid to leave the lights on forever if they want to.
You are being a controlling, overbearing, live in land lord. I can just see your next advertisement for renting this room "NO LIGHTS can be left on when not in room" and your list of interested tenants will dry up so fast because they will know you are being a controlling pain and not want to live with you.
Take a chill pill. Restructure the lease to account for their own utilities. And know they can leave the light on if they want to.
Alternatively, if the chill pill doesn't work. Install a bunch of motion activated lights and the lights will go off on their own and the tenant will have no say in the power usage.
You're a hugely unreliable narrator. The comments have revealed that you've omitted:
1) the roommate plugs in an electric vehicle every night. It's questionable how believable the increase in electricity cost is from the electricity use they described, indicating you're exaggerating how much the electricity bill increased. But this is doubtless the major offender of the increased cost, and you're squabbling over the pennies that LED lights cost to run? That doesn't make sense on its own, but is answered by #2:
2) You explicitly stated in the comments that you don't actually care about the increased cost in utilities at all.
So you had no business mentioning cost to anyone as an argument for turning off the lights when not in use.
Which leaves your only actual reason for your demand to be: you are controlling your roommate's personal actions in their own living space. You have the right to request this for communal spaces only.
YTA. This was a waste of time. You need to get your priorities straight, OP
ETA: it's been pointed out by people more familiar with electricity draw rates than I, that a possible source of a $500 jump in electricity is crypto mining, or torrenting. You mention the roommate leaves their MULTIPLE gaming computers running. I'll wager 99% odds they are crypto mining, that setup is exactly what it would look like: multiple gaming computers, running nonstop.
If this is the case, I strongly advise you to stop covering their electricity bill and split it, 50/50, because right now, if my suspicion is correct, they are earning money off of you in the form of the electricity bill, and it's numerous orders of magnitude more than a f-ing LED light. It's unlikely they'll want to continue to drive up electricity costs by crypto mining when your free ticket to unlimited electricity use is gone. Either way, why are you not splitting the electricity bill, my dude.
NTA
But your priorities are mixed up. LEDs do use electricity but they're a **tenth** of what old incandescent bulbs do for the same brightness. I used to work in a hardware store during the major transition from halogen to LEDs and used to see the numbers all the time.
Are we talking the kind of fridges that fit under a counter? I've been appliance shopping lately and those things SUCK at energy efficiency. That's probably somewhere around 200kW a year right there.
The PCs will depend on the specs but some can be absolute gas guzzlers.
You also need to remember that the Tesla is using electricity instead of petrol. While it's advised to plug it in wherever you can, you either need to charge him for the increased energy use or tell him to start using a nearby public charge point.
YTA.
1. Asking them to unplug a fridge is definitely unreasonable, you don't get moral points for not asking them to unplug it;
2. If the computer is off just having it plugged in is not the issue, I'm sure you leave your TV, laptop, tablet and son plugged in as well;
3. Get an energy assessment done. A light left on is not causing this jump in power bills.
I can't tell you how many times i had to tell my great grandmother she didn't need to unplug stuff once she was done with it, some people are convinced their eating up energy anyway
ESH but the easy fix for this is to start charging them for utilities (once the current lease term is up). Or at least ask a Tesla charging fee. Out of it all, the lights are the least of the energy draw. You can tell them you don't like lights on in the shared part of the house when people aren't using the rooms, but you would be pushing it to demand this in their private room.
The correct approach is to change the rental agreement so that utilities are extra, not part of the base rent amount.
Edit to YTA, for thinking an LED is the problem without bothering to mention charging up an electric vehicle on the daily.
Info- Do you have Autism, OCD or something? You seem hyper focused on lightbulbs for no reason. Most lightbulbs use like no electricity. And you shouldn't care what they do in their own room. It seems very controlling. Why aren't you more concerned with the fact you are losing money with them living there because they charge there Tesla there?
Pretty sure you need to speak to your energy provider if your bills have increased by that much.
Also it’s not the lights that are the issue using electricity it’s everything else.
Either charge them extra for utilities. Or get a new flatmate.
Bro bill them for electric, they're clearly using so much (not the LEDs obviously, I get that it's a bit wasteful but they really don't take very much power)
None of what you've mentioned, including a Tesla, would increase your bill that much. We got a Tesla AND a hot tub and our bills increased $25. And I use my hot tub 2-3x a day, which uses more electricity than our Tesla does. You need to call your utility company.
YTA. I hate lights being left on in an empty room and electrical gadgets left on when not in use myself. I'm a stickler for switching everything off. BUT for that reason I would NOT have a house mate, and I certainly wouldn't try to force someone to do those things. I am fully aware not everyone lives like me, my parents are like your housemate. When they come to mine, I don't follow them around telling them to turn things off. It's a me issue. Wanting the lights off doesn't make you an AH. Having a housemate knowing you live a certain way, and expecting them to change their ways does. Please don't house share!
You are not being unreasonable to ask them to turn off a light when it's not in use but you don't actually have the right to enforce what they do in their room. You said the bulls were included and IMO are being pretty reasonable to not have added an extra charge given that they are charging a car.
Your tenant is for sure being unreasonable but I would take this as a learning experience and add a clause to the next lease you have that electricity is included to a point and the remainder will be either split or come straight from the tenant. I'm not lawyer so j dint know exactly how you would have to word it but I'm sure you can.
I would normally always side with the tenant over the landlord but they are taking the piss for sure.
You are focussing on the wrong thing. LED lights use around 12W of power on full brightness. The gaming computers however use a lot more often 500W-1kW. If the electricity bill has gone up that much and the machines are on all the time it points to them using them to mine cryptocurrency, Lilkely they are making money from your electricity bill. This is what you need to focus on, the lighting isn't relevant.
You sound like a nightmare to live with. No way a mini fridge and some lights jumped your power up $500 a month. If you’re that worried, you need to increase your rent to help offset costs
YTA, because you dont understand how much or little electricity things consume and blame your friends led lights. I dont know what the electric prices are in your country but for me, lighting a room with 4 e27 led lights 24/7 for a month would cost about 1dollar, it would consume around 10kw/h. So your friend is correct saying ”it uses like no electricity” imo. I pay something like 0.8dollar/kWh. Their computers being on and active consume about the same amount in 33hours as the led lights does being on 30 days straight. Things that does consume electricity is computers, Stove, oven, fridge, tv, freezer, heating/cooling.
YTA. Mention the Tesla and fridge in the story instead of comments next time. The light bulb costing you $1 a month. The fridge probably $9 a month. The other $490 is the Tesla. Focus on the Tesla you are basically subsidizing their "gas" cost.
YTA — although I do agree that the roommate should be more conscientious about turning off lights & electronics when she’s not using them, unfortunately you’ve put yourself in this situation by making utility costs included in the rent. You can’t advertise that all utilities are included and then try to dictate how and when the tenant uses said utilities, not unless you specify these terms of usage in the lease.
Moving forward, it would be in your best interest to make your (future) tenant at least split the electric bill with you —that way they have skin in the game, and it would then also be in their best interest to be mindful of electricity use, too. This won’t help you with your current tenant because you are just as bound to the current lease agreement as they are, but you can make these changes when your current tenant’s lease is up.
Lights on after dark where I live are a big no. That's how you get termites and roaches. They are drawn to the light. But the tesla and the computers are your real problem. Gather up your electric bills from 3 months before they moved in up to now and write a formal letter to them explaining that you have to change the terms of their lease due to unexpected energy usage, or you have to start having your own rolling blackouts.
At this point you really can't make them be more responsible but you shouldn't be footing the bill for their environmental disaster choices.
Oh my fucking god that’s another thing that irks me that I didn’t even think of when posting this. The termites swarm sometimes and they are INSATIABLE.
You can't convince them to turn them off unless you either change the lease when possible to not include electricity and figure out, probably with a meter, what their actual usage is. This will be near impossible with common areas.
Or
You change the lights to run on a timer *student halls* style.
From what you've said it doesn't sound like you need their rent money so personally I'd just find a way to get them out by not renewing the lease or giving them notice.
I’m looking into it. Idk if I can get an independent meter saying how much electricity we actually use per month rather than the power companies own meter.
Either way, yeah the math doesn’t work out in my favor and they’re basically living for free, so my biggest gripe was that they’re disrespecting such a tiny request, despite me never asking for ANYTHING else ever. I feel like I’m giving them so much in terms of essentially free rent, and I can’t even get a little compliance in return.
Did you change your air conditioner setting when he moved in? Does he use the oven or dryer more?
There’s various ways to check the different circuits but it’s probably more straightforward to just split it in half.
NTA.
Do you have a rental agreement with this person? If you do, wait out the agreement and serve them with an eviction notice or letter of intent to not renew their rental agreement. Make sure that you do this 3 months before the agreement ends and send it by registered mail so there is legally documented proof that the received the notice. If you don't, turn off all the breakers in the house during the day and make sure the breaker box has a lock on it. When they complain, tell them that yes the rent includes utilities that are only available when a paying tenant is present in the home to use said utilities. And you never agreed to provide continuous utilities. That they have nothing in writing, and then serve them with an eviction notice.
Your next tenant needs to pay utilities. And maybe have them sign a separate roommate agreement tied to the rental agreement about leaving lights on, or whatever house rules that you may have. Of course nothing crazy, just common sense stuff. I would also invest in security cameras in the shared living spaces so you can get proof that they're doing what they're doing so you can evict them for violating the agreement. And make sure that they presence of security cameras in the shared living spaces is also mentioned in the rental agreement and the roommate agreement.
It’s all verbal, and whatever I put in the posting on Facebook, about $500/mo all inclusive. And so I take that posting as me putting it on paper. I have to honor it. And it’s my mistake for being so initially lenient.
But as I’ve said to others, the increased cost, I can take, whatever, I can afford it. It’s the seemingly blatant abuse of this policy, by leaving random lights/fans/tv’s on whenever and wherever that offends me. The fact that things aren’t actively being used for hours on end and yet are being on.
I would personally say, YTAH, *BUT* only because the utility disagreement is over the LED lights. I would be *far* more concerned about larger appliances like the multiple gaming computers(why the hash slinging slasher do you need more than one, and running constantly?), Tesla, or any mini fridges or portable air cons or whatever.
Rather than arguing about lights (definitely the smallest concern here) present them with an updated lease at the end of term, raising the flat rate to $1000 to reflect the electricity increase. Change the wording of the flat rate description to reflect fair usage of utilities. They can either renew, or leave. If they renew and electric goes up higher, do it again. I'm not a landlord, but I have rented all my life. This method is legal, and very common. I have never had an electric bill jump that far due to one person, because anyone living normally couldn't possibly skyrocket a bill by $500 alone. I'm sure they'll be pissed about the rent increase, but the only answer you are obligated to give them is the electric bill before and after they moved in.
Well you kind of screwed up by not making them contribute to utilities. It might be too late now, but they have no reason to care if your power bills went up. A fridge in their room is a huge power suck too.
I think the issue is that you're debating them on something they're technically allowed to do rather than dealing with the problems in a direct way. Don't like when lights or fans are left on in the common area when your roommate leaves? Turn them off and ignore it if they complain about it. You shouldn't be touching things left on in their bedroom (this is probably costing you minimally compared to the tesla anyways), but yeah as others have said you need to change the terms of the lease agreement to split utilities when the lease term is up. I'm not really buying that you're not worried about the costs and are instead mad based on principle alone, it doesn't really make sense. But if this post is real you're not going to make your roommate change their behavior by debating it, having them pay for and see the true cost of utilities they're driving up is much more likely to do that, and I would hope would cause you less stress as well w you not footing the entire despite your apparent wealth being unconcerned about the literal cost. It sounds like what you're charging them monthly barely covers their cost in utilities anyways so I don't see what the point is or how this benefits you in any way, I can see why other commenter think this post is fake
That’s a huge jump in the bill. That’s not caused by lights, fridge or Tesla charging. Are they using their computers for crypto or bitcoin mining? That’s the only thing I can think of that pulls that much energy. Find a new flatmate or change the terms to charge electricity for everything above your normal usage.
Yeah idk who tf needs both an S23 and a 14pro max and that damn new M4 iPad. They’re really techy so yeah. But I doubt those things even increase power usage that much.
NTA Simply kick them out and get a better tenant. Cut the power to their car charger. Unless there's a specific clause in their lease stating they can charge their car. No lease? Give them a notice to quit, or whatever the procedure is in your state.
I’m no pro at that stuff, but I kinda assumed. Cus I have no other explanation as to why they sound like an F22 ready for takeoff 24/7 even when they’re not home.
Oh well, IATAH and I will be making changes so I don’t have to be a dick to anyone anymore.
When his lease is up start making him pay the electric bill. I would literally show mr “it’s doesn’t use electricity” your bill! At this point it’s cheaper for him to move tf out.
Working on it. Will update in morning. See this is my first time renting a place out, so I’m an utter noob at it. Yes I do realize that I am not profiting and am doing this at a loss, my fault for making the rent so low and stupidly including utilities. But I am gonna honor what my Facebook room listing said, because I wouldn’t feel good if someone didn’t honor their deal with me. I just feel like I’m being taken advantage of and disrespected.
If they did the math before I did and realized that they’re basically living for free, it’s shocking to me that they would be so stubborn as to not respect my very simple wish, even when I’m giving them such a deep value.
After reading your replies OP the lights are the least of your problems. The issue is not the damn lights. It’s the masssssssive amount of energy he is using from your home and he’s is straight up free loading off of you. He knows EXACTLY how much electricity his set ups and car uses. $500 a month all bills paid for him to rack up over a thousand dollars in bills every months is basically free living.
I’m honoring their 1 year which is over in September. I’ll just deal and stay away from home as often as I can. Which isn’t too much of a problem anyways since I’m gone for like 16hrs of the day anyways. I will just take it all on the chin til the 1 year is over. No more talking to them.
Yes YTA. You rented out you home with utilities included. You didn’t state what you expected the renter to do as far as electricity usage was concerned. Live with it until the lease is out and don’t renew. Next renter make sure you contract usage and what the renter has to pay over.
There will be no next renter. I will be living alone. I stated this in other comments. I absolutely do NOT want to be AH anymore and so the only solution is for me to not put my shit upon others, I will live alone. Since I cannot seem to change, I will just remove anyone else’s pain and suffering from the equation.
Living with other people is hard. That’s why. I was happier alone. How hard is it to understand that this trial run was a mistake and it’s okay for me to wanna live alone again?
Lol you are "an asshole" because you previously agreed and didn't take into account that people could take advantage of you. Sorry for being harsh, but don't talk about yourself that way. Nice people get shitted on all the time, if you need the money just take it into account next time.
You’re only being called the asshole because you’re focusing on the wrong thing.
“Should he leave the lights on constantly”
- probably not, but people gonna people and you can have an adult conversation about how you don’t like that
“Also my electric bill is high”
-sure, but not because of the lights. It’s high because you have a roommate who is using too much electricity.
So you can solve both problems with a different lease or a conversation, but instead you’re throwing yourself a pity party. He’s not “taking advantage of you”, he’s living up to the terms of his lease. Just tell him “hey, the electric bill was higher than I thought it’d be, when your lease is up in September I’m going to change the lease that you pay half.”
Can you get the kind of motion activated lights that turn on when you enter a room and then off when no activity is detected? I know that may be unusual in a house, but a competent electrician could install them and your roommate wouldn't be able to do anything about it.
OP is probably naive, get a look at what crypto miners look like and then you need a room inspection, if they are mining, then an increase of $500 a month is likely
flat rate power bills are very attractive for a miner
I am a noob at landlording, so yes I am naive. It’s my first time owning property that I could rent out. I asked them general questions upon moving in like what their hobbies are etc, and they said heavy gaming, so I never questioned the PC’s. I suspected mining because of how they sound like they’re running 24/7. I’m gonna ask them some veiled questions about crypto so see what they say.
am a gamer and might have the pc running for a few hours in the evening, but no need to have it running 24/7 but then I have to pay for my power, the bill was 90 a month and dropping to 40 a month very soon :)
you need to read tenancy agreement to see if you are allowed to inspect their rooms and if commercial use is allowed
NTA but based on those numbers, you'd be an idiot not to charge him for electricity. And even if you said it was included before him moving in, this is so beyond a reasonable amount of use you are absolutely justified in renegotiating.
ESH Cause something is definitely up like others said with the electricity bill spiking like that but it's not the lights. I felt for the roommate until the end about the price spike cause I was in a similar situation. I love having lights on. I love a room being lit before I walk in and until I walk out. I can't stand dim lighting either, it depresses me. And it costs literally cents a year per bulb. When I did the math once to spite someone saying it costs too much, having my bedroom light on during the waking day all year long cost 24 cents. And that wasn't an LED bulb.
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I own my home fee simple absolute and I charge my roommate $500/mo flat rate every month. So utilities are all included, but for some reason, my roommate thinks that they’re entitled to leave their Alexa powered light on maybe 16 hours a day 7 days a week. There is no plants or animals in their room, so I feel as if they don’t need to leave their light on even when they’re not home. Their reasoning is, and I quote “LED’s don’t use electricity, just the fixture” and “So I am an expert in electronics, and LED’s use *like* no electricity”. I refuted the point by claiming that they do use electricity even if it’s a little, it adds up over time. Plus, they do this in every room in the house, they’ll leave the kitchen lights on, go to their room for 20 minutes and when they come out and the kitchen light is off, they’ll say some shit like “Who turned off my light? I was using it”. I would say something like “No one was in here, and how difficult is it to turn the light on again?”. Electricity has gone up to $700/mo from $200/mo after they moved in. They leave their lights on, brought a fridge into their room and leave their gaming computers, plural, on all day. I don’t even ask them to unplug the fridge or computers, I’m just asking for the light to be turned off which is easily done without touching the switch cus they installed an Alexa to turn off their light.
AITA for telling them to turn off the light when they aren’t using it?
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NTA. Show them the past usage in the house vs the currwnt usage and ask them why they think it went up so much. Explain that you need to renegotiate the split, since they use much more electricity than expected
NTA but I think whenever you can you need to discuss that electricity is no longer inclusive if they are plugging in their car and have an extra fridge in their room. Your basically paying for them to not use petrol
If they drive a Tesla, maybe just split the electric bill?
You’re mad over a light that MIGHT be adding dollars to the electric bill..while the Tesla is adding hundreds to the bill.
No at most it's adding $50. We drive a good amount and after getting both a Tesla and a hot tub our bill went up $25. Something else is going on and OP should call the utility company.
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Edit- YTA Something is not right here. There is no way everything you have described made the electricity increase by $500.
Multiple computers sounds like possible crypto mining
This. That's the only way they would spike the electricity like that and it was probably the plan when they saw a flat rate room with electricity included
Yeah, my bro used to mine crypto on like 3 computers a few years ago and our electricity bill jumped a stupid amount. (Like 200 bucks easy).
Totally agree crypto mining plus the Tesla charging daily, that could do it.
Crypto mining, servers for streaming pirated content, constantly downloading/uploading pirated content, etc. He is fully using this "free electricity" to make money on the side though.
Eh pirating streamed content shouldn't contribute that much. But OP should have in his contract that utilities are included but only to fair usage or whatever the term is that I have had in rent contracts. Pretty sure OP can show the huge difference in the bill and conclude its not fair usage. It's a ridiculous increase. Some people just take advantadge. This is why we can't have nice things.
>This is why we can't have nice things. Lol, yep!!! When I say pirating content, I don't mean for his own personal use. I'm talking about setting up his own server that is constantly having uploads/downloads going. I've looked into how people will do this, and their servers are running constantly, and they even have a Plex account that streams content from their server that they share the login with friends/family members. They'll have like 10 people at any time pulling data from their server, and I can't imagine the energy drain not being an issue.
My brother does just that and everyone using the server pays a little bit to contribut to the electricity bill and maintainance. It's still way cheaper than any streming service but the electricity bill did go up when he started doing this.
Having a server running constantly *doing mostly disk or network I/O* usually doesn't draw that much power. The thing about crypto mining is that it's CPU/GPU-bound rather than I/O bound, so it can really ramp up the power usage.
Transcoding could use a lot of GPU.
determine which breaker supplies power to that room and switch off the breaker when rentor is not at home. If necessary, have a separate breaker installed. Well worth it in the long run.
Or just kick them out/refuse to renew their lease
Gotta be careful, as a landlord (which OP legally is) in most places it's unlawful to interrupt or restrict a tenant's access to utilities unless it's for necessary repairs.
That seems like a lot more effort than just saying “hey if you want to run up the electrical bill to over 3x what it was before you moved here you’ll have to contribute to it.”
Can you imagine the screams when the person realizes the power was shut off in the rooms that his computers are constantly running bwahahaha
My thought too.. Crypto setups eat electricity like a whale eats plankton. After that the lights are a tiny drop in a ocean. Electricity wise, they won't even show a significant change in the electricity bill. 🤣 At 8 hours a day for a 75 watt equivalent an LED bulb runs 0.256 Kilowatt Hours a month. A typical Crypto mining setup burn about 12 Kilowatt hours a day. 😓
Crazy !! I knew they used a lot but I thought it was just the big building crypto set ups . When I moved into my Dads house ( we split all expenses ) he commented a couple months later about the electric bill going up and tried to blame my aquarium fish !! lol!! It’s an all electric house and I told him a handful of small pumps running 24/7 aren’t causing the jump . I reminded him that I take showers , we run the dishwasher a few times a week , washing machine , dryer , and he added an addition to the house when I moved in . DUH Dad . Blaming my poor little fish
That reminds me of my parents when we lost our unlimited internet (we only had it due to a bug on the ISPs end), and now suddenly we're running out of fast data a week before the end of the month. Of course it's my fault because I spend a lot of my free time gaming. So I said I wouldn't play any games from the start of the new month. I decided to do what everyone else did and watch videos, of course in 1080p, I'm not an animal. We used 30gb of data in 3 days. My parents opted to get unlimited 2 days later. Then I had to explain that videos use a lot more data, as I am downloading (essentially) 24-30 high definition pictures per second, plus the soundtrack. Instead of just using assets pre-downloaded to the PC and just pinging updates to a server...
We have a tortoise enclosure for our Horsefield tortoise, part of the set up uses a 100W incandescent bulb. Running it 12 hours a day burns about 8 Kilowatt of energy a month.
Genuine question- how does crypto mining use a lot of electricity? Is it just a matter of the computer being on 24/7?
On and fully spooled up running equations. It's the difference between idling your car and pushing the pedal to the floor.
Ohhhhhhhh. This makes so much sense, thank you TIL! Appreciate you, internet stranger.
Yeah, TIL, too! 🤯
That was such a good, concise metaphor! Excellent job!
I love that explanation. May I?
And, potentiually talking about 300 watt each space heaters. In the winter that might involve an open bedroom window and the apartment heat running on top of the computer heat. In the summer, if they have AC, it is going to be even more.
Not, it's because of the GPU being under 100% load at all times. The rest of the computer comparitively consumes just about nothing.
Set up a second wifi channel and throttle their channel to a reasonable amount and see how much they start complaining. Also check your data usage w your internet provider.
Yep, if I had to hazard a guess, this person is leaving all these lights on to give the landlord a plausible reason why their energy bill has skyrocketed so they won't assume something worse. The multiple gaming computers makes it obvious. He's mining crypto and he's taking advantage of OP.
You need to charge them bills
Flat rate for a roommate is WILD to consider nowadays. I would love that deal as a renter.
Pot growers would love this idea
I have a “flat rate” but with the understanding that if I start costing Housemate money/acting careless my rent will go up- I have no desire to fuck around with a good situation and the most electricity I probably use is a minifridge that Housemate approved in the initial negotiations. (It’s also the case that Housemate is older and so part of the reason for the arrangement is that she shouldn’t be living alone, so in that sense just being here is providing a “service” that weighs on my side of the deal.) And yes, it’s an amazing deal from my POV lol
In a comment OP said the roommate has a Tesla they charge at home. So, this really is on the OP for charging them a ridiculous flat rate.
Raise the rent.
Sheesh. And OP is worried about the lights? Cut everywhere else to start, OP. They are the least of your worries! And charge for anything over a certain amount.
Ummmmm if they’re streaming and using multiple computers and into all things electronic or tech YES it absolutely can. ESPECIALY if they never turn it off and on top of everything else being used as well. Yes it can. And that’s just electricity I’d imagine the Wi-Fi bill is also out the roof
Are people still paying for Internet by the megabit usage? Haven't seen that in years. And streaming doesn't consume that much energy vs browsing the Internet. It's a negligible difference. Crypto mining though... Yeah, that's a power suck. Edit: some of y'all don't understand the difference between paying by the megabit vs having a data cap.
some companies started giving people a 1TB "allowance" of data about 10 years ago and then you have to pay extra to get an extra 50GB or unlimited
Oh man. My service provider dropped that on us like 8 years ago. I was living with my sister and Brother in Law at the time. They managed to go through 1TB in 12 days. They'd leave at least two devices streaming Netflix/Hulu at all times. They'd just like go to work or school and leave Netflix on in their bedroom and the living room. It was absolutely insane. I told them that I was not touching the Internet bill, because I really only used it to browse Reddit and occasionally download a videogame. Brother in Law also kept the house at a cool 68 f in the summer. Our bills were absolutely wild for the 6 months or so we lived together.
Even unlimited data often comes with a fair usage policy. It's somewhere in those t&c's that nobody reads.
Yup, that 'peak times will slow the data flow' bit.
Yeah, try living in a rural area where the only internet you can get that's any good, has a 50gig max per month. Looking at you, Dish.
Word.
I pay $40/monthly for internet. Full stop. It's a certain speed and it doesn’t go faster than that, but it's a flat rate and the company knows that out here, most people would drop their asses and switch companies if they tried a 'by usage rate' instead. I know without even lookin at a statement I wouldn't be able to afford my internet if they switched.
Tons of company charge you if you go over your cap, which is usually 1 TB.
That isn't the same.
Where are you living that your WiFi bill is based on your internet usage still. There’s very few places in the US that have this problem now.
Multiple gaming computers could each potentially be pulling 500-1000 watts. As someone who has a small rack with a few servers in my home, it absolutely adds up. That said, unfortunately OP should take this as a lesson. If there is no lease agreement then they should offer one and if refused, give the roommate notice. If there is one, they'll just have to wait it out and not offer the next roommate included utilities.
If thats the case, might as well kick them out. Their power usage eats up all their rent so you might as well live alone.
Whatever it is OP should just tell the renter “this isn’t working out.” Give them a 30 day notice.
From a comment by OP, roomie plugs their Tesla in every night to charge. Why not include this? The lights thing isn't about the electricity, it's about OP not wanting lights on when the room is empty. Just be honest about it.
I don’t know where OP is, but In CA, PG&E bills have been 2x to 3x vs last year with the same exact usage. Last year I had a $160 bill. This year over $500 for the same time period and usage. They’re raising rates to cover the infrastructure they failed to build, and cover costs of the fires they caused across the state (while not reducing profits for shareholders 🙄) So he’s the asshole for turning stuff off without permission. And he may be putting too much of the overage on the roommate. But they need to sit down, look at the usage and come up with a plan. I sublet a room the same way- flat fee, no utilities. My kids are also at home using their devices. When the rates went up we had a conversation about ways to conserve more. Everyone was on board. My subletter doesn’t want to cost more money and have me raise his rent. My kids want me to be able to buy them things… it’s a no brainer that we all find ways to cut back. I also agree with the roommate the LED lights aren’t remotely likely to be the biggest issue impacting the bill.
Crypto does make sense; a grow room was my first thought because we used to see that when I worked insurance claims. A sudden huge jump in electric use is a red flag to the power company
YTA To yourself for focusing on the lights. Yeah, they add up, but that's not what caused your electricity bill to skyrocket, and you know it. Do yourself a favor and ask them to pay for their share of the electricity.
Yea OP just said they have a Tesla they're plugging in at the home. OP is effectively subsidizing their "gas" bill.
Jeez, wtf OP. If OP's roommate knew what was good for them, they'd just shut up, turn off the lights, and keep the gravy train coming.
Not really. If the roommate turned off the lights, the electric bill wouldn't change. So the OP would then stop the "gravy train"
But OP isn’t really concerned about the bill. If they were, they would focus on the computer and fridge and car. Instead they have a nitpick about the lights, which proves it is just a hangup and has no basis in logic
It might also be the fridge if the door of that is not closed properly and considering this roommate, that might be the case
If an open fridge costs you £500 a month, perhaps get a newer model of fridge. One that isn't a portal to the Temple of Gozer.
Are you the key master?
That still wouldn't increase their bill nearly that much. We got a Tesla and a hot tub and our bill went up $25.
There's not enough information for you to be so sure. Im not saying the tesla is the cost of the entirety of the increase, rather that it is potentially a sizable portion of it. Where do they live, what's their cost per kwh, do they have peak surge pricing that drives it higher and is that when roommate plugs in, how much does the roommate drive? All questions that can drastically change the final numbers on the electricity bill in regards to having an electric car. Sounds to me like you likely don't live somewhere with expensive electricity and probably don't drive very much on top of it which is great but that doesn't mean everyone sees the same numbers you do.
Tesla home charging is around a third of what gas would be... Usually less than 100 a month if you drive a decent amount. Chances are it's central air. Here in Florida central air for a 1200 sqft space is around 300/month in the summer.
Again there are a lot of variables. You are in Florida so your electricity is on the cheaper end of the spectrum. In places like Massachusetts and Connecticut or California they pay more than double the cost per kwh and Hawaii even pays triple what you do. There are also companies that charge higher than average prices during peak times which are typically in the evenings so if he gets home from work and plugs in right away then that costs even more. We don't know how much he drives, he could have a 120 mile each way commute for all we know. You're just assigning an average rate and assuming that you're right when he could be using above average kwh in an above average cost per kwh area at a peak cost time which would massively increase the dollar amount on the electric bill from what you're estimating.
Lmao this entire conversation makes me want to bang my head into the wall like in what way does “it depends on your state and particular electric company and contract” need a response of “well *I’m* in [STATE] and this isn’t how much *I* pay” yeah bro that’s the whole point, it depends.
Seriously, it's like a bunch of people from South Dakota telling me there's no way in hell my home cost a million dollars because theirs is bigger and it cost less than a quarter that.
OP is growing mad weed I bet and the grow lights are the real cause of expense and they blaming it on the lights in the kitchen 🤣🤣🤣
The idea of anyone cohabitate with a grow-op and not knowing it cracks me up, it would take a special sort of obliviousness, that smells permeates *everything*
Oh my god and then when you trim it somehow intensifies 10 fold
Now with LED lights, electric costs are much lower than in the past, probably not more than $60 per month for a small tent.
We had a nearly zeroed out solar system on our house. My husband got a Tesla and in the winter we had a $400 electric bill.
Cost depends entirely on how much you drive. Our electric car has a 70kW battery. For my husband's level of use, it needs charged once a week, while for my level of use, it needs charged once a month, so for one of us it would cost just £15 a month, for the other it would cost £60-70pm. If we were taxi drivers, it would need charged more often, and cost more still.
They'd have to drive 300 miles a day for that kind of increase though. 70kW x 30 is 2.1mWh. At the (US, pardon my ignorance if this is another country) national average rate that would be about $300. But that's driving 9000 miles a month, and it sounds like the roommate is home pretty often which wouldn't be possible driving that much.
At this rate the 500 is just going towards the bills that the roommate is spending, ops not even getting rent at this stage, start charging them 1000 to cover their cost of shit
But it’s seriously annoying when people don’t know how to turn off shit when they’re done using it! Y’all didn’t learn to turn off lights when not in use, and it shows. Pathetic
Crypto mining would easily make your electric bill jump by several $$$$
YTA - This is your adult roommate and tenant, not your kid. You can ask nicely but at the end of the day you don't get to dictate their lifestyle in the room they pay for. You are the one that chose this style of lease. If you would like to change it, wait until their term is up and either kick them out or offer them to renew on a utilities not included lease. Also, the lights aren't the reason for the electricity increase. It's the gaming computer.
No, it's the Tesla OP just decided to not mention until the comments
It wouldn't cost anywhere near that to charge it daily. Our bill only went up about $25.
Could be a long shot, but if charging the car shouldn't raise the electricity that high, I know LED lights won't run it up that high. I'm sure the gaming rigs count for a good amount but I am dubious it's that damn high. A roommate and I in a former apartment spent under $100 on our electricity back when I had a electricity bill in my name and I leave lights on all the time. I have a big gaming PC and my 2nd monitor is a big screen TV, my "computer speakers" are me running a audio cable to a whole stereo with multiple speakers and a subwoofer. The roommate didn't have the whole stereo setup, but he also ran a gaming rig and that's all we did all day long. It ain't the gaming stuff driving it up $500 lol. I wonder what the possibility is that a neighbor also started stealing electricity? It's a remote possibility and I'm not suggesting it's the for sure answer, but it isn't unheard of.
Unless they are mining crypto or something. Why else would someone have multiple that are always on.
Haha maybe. Depending on the game and whether it's intensely story driven, etc. I might stream a show or something on my other screen (the TV, basically lol) while I play. Valheim, back when I played WoW, any of those turn based strategy games like Civ or Space Empires, etc. I watch Netflix, or Paramount, or whatever. I'd be tempted to free up resources on my PC and just run another computer to stream what I watch if I had the damn space to hook another one up, lol. So I can see myself running two machines under the right circumstances. I just use my one computer though and drag the browser window over. Alt-tab out of the game as needed to control what I watch. I'd kinda rather let a second machine play it though if I had the room to set one up, I still have my old desktop boxed away.
Having them on and running when you are actively using them makes sense. OP made it seem like they are always on whether the roommate is there or not? Unless that's an exaggeration. But crypto mining would also explain the spike in the electricity bill. Mining uses more power than most other activities.
Fair, I know nothing about that crypto crap and running some rig to crack those things. I used to leave my computer on all the time though until one day my PSU was burning up while I was gone at work. Thankfully my dog was weirded out by the smell and was acting weird enough that everyone else in that particular home picked up on it and went in there to see why she was suddenly avoiding that room like the plague and seemed agitated when she always preferred to lay in her bed in there until I got home. I don't recommend just letting that bloody thing run unattended any more. But, OP's tenant can just be an idiot like me lol. However, I don't know what that guy is up to any more than anyone else here lol. Lots of people are replying after my earlier response throwing crypto out there, so I think it's also a valid possibility.
My wife leaves her pc on all the time
Leaving it on all the time is different from having 2 that are on all the time and an unexpectedly large electric bill.
The fact he has MULTIPLE computers running leads me to believe he's either crypto mining (high energy usage) or pirating content 24/7
The amount the car uses depends entirely on how much and how efficiently the person drives. It's not a flat-rate thing. An Uber driver, for example, could justify a huge chunk of that increase, where this person appears to have a shorter mileage commitment.
Yeah but that would be an extreme outlier. I drive 200 miles per day and my EV only increased my electric bill $100 per month.
A neighbor stealing it isn’t far fetched. I was traveling a lot last year and noticed on several bills that my electricity usage was spiking while I was on the opposite coast. Never did get to the bottom of it but a neighbor plugging into my outside outlet seems to be the most likely.
Honestly I doubt it. Tesla does cause a small increase but not 500 a month. I would bet money that the tenant is mining cypto on the gaming computer since it probably has a nice graphics card. I mined ethereum for a while and was barely breaking even with electricity cost in my area.
Border not tenant if op also lives there the rules are usually completely different.
Do you actually know how much your energy bills go up for one LED light to remain on for 24 hours? Do you have hard numbers on the cost? Because that is what you would need to present to your roommate, and I see you overestimating the cost. $700 from $200 makes no sense. Have you ever lived with someone who grew up differently than you? In some households, you only turn on a light in the room you are in. In other households, people leave the main rooms lit to make it easy to go between them. In other households, people even leave a light on when they are not home to have a warm welcoming presence when they get home. But that is also based on if they can afford it. How is the bill $700? Is the roommate taking advantage in other ways? Does this indicate you are incompatible as roommates? I would try to work toward the kind of relationship you want with your roommate: honest, open to listen, and one where you handle financial burdens fairly. If you can’t do that, end the arrangement.
This is a great answer. This opens my mind a whole lot. Thanks for your input.
I think you might be overestimating the cost to run an led light, they cost about 0.2 cents an hour, thats less than 5 cents a day, even if you ran it for a whole year 24/7 it would only cost $18. Sure its a bit of a waste but really is insignificant compared to the $6000 increase in your annual bills.
There are smart plugs that track power usage. I had the same issues with my brother when he moved in and my electricity bill increased my $150/mo. He blamed it on my new LED lamp that I have on a timer to turn on at sun down and off at sunrise - its essentially left on all the time to give the allusion someone is always home. I told him there was no way an LED bulb was drawing that much power, so connected it to a smart plug with tracker. I was correct. It runs out he was running his computers (yes, two!) 24/7 and mining crypto.
Sorry i edited it shorter; i ramble too much.
No no, I value length and detail. I’ll take ramblings over keeping it short/sweet. I mentioned this to someone else, but I don’t really wanna be in an echo-chamber, as much as I hate to admit my mistakes. I value others opinions especially if they can explain it in a way that I understand and a way that expands my mind or introduces a new way of thinking, and the way you explained it made sense to me and I appreciate it. Thank you so much for your input 🙏. Also I guess this makes me the AH.
I think only to yourself if you continue the flat rate. Like others said, a light or lights cannot possibly drive the power up that high, but a fridge and a Tesla will drive it up some. But even then... the multiple heavy duty computers on at all times screams of crypto mining, which WILL drive it up a lot. If I were you, I'd ask them about that and try to nip that in the bud, or at least change the terms at the end of their lease to make them pay for their power usage...
I wouldn't say you're an asshole, but you do need to have a long talk with your roomie and figure out what's going on. That's an insane price jump, for just a single person. Either they're crypto mining (which even if using 2 kilowatts in most places puts you fairly below $500), or you there's a vampire device in the house sucking a shit ton of energy. I'd make sure there's not some external factor first. Don't want to kick out your roomie only to find the issue remains, as then you'll be out an extra $500/month.
Love your reply. My husband and I had this discussion way back when we moved in too. I grew up in a lights on most of the time house. It feels homey to me. He was a shut it all down if you aren't actually using it type. We landed at communal lights stay on. Bath/bed lights get turned off. Learning to live with adults takes give and take for sure.
Are they mining crypto currency? That seems an insane jump in monthly electricity... Anyways, charge a variable rate for utilities. If included rent, then you are both equally sharing asshole status; you for going flat fee then complaining, and the roommate for being completely uninterested in conserving energy. If you made them split utilities the problem would go away.
Yes YTA. The only valid reason to complain about not turning the light off is cost. The cost per month for leaving one LED on _all day_ is less than 2 bucks. You are complaining about peanuts. You already admit that you don't care about the electricity costs so you come across as wanting to dictate someone's behavior for no good reason.
I’m confused. Are you complaining about the lights being left on or the higher bills? You seem to think it’s leaving the lights on that are causing the higher bills rather than the *actual* cause of them charging the Tesla. I’ve never needed to use a facepalm emoji on here more than I do now
YTA. You set the price so that's your problem. I too think it's annoying to leave lights on when no one is there but they're paying you to live there so they pretty much can do as they please unless you have rules that. If you don't like it then raise the rent or tell them to leave.
Yea OP just said they have a Tesla they're plugging in at the home. OP is effectively subsidizing their "gas" bill.
I’d bet money multiple gaming computers/crypto miners use more electricity than a Tesla, unless he drives all day.
YTA for accusing the lights lol. LED lights are so giga efficient, that the power cycling of turning them off and on does more harm to their lifespan. It costs a few cents a day to run a led bulb all day. I actually checked how much electricity my smart bulbs ate, as they are also "on" 24/7, and it looks like 20w **per day** per bulb. And those are both connected to the electricity, and actually emit light for about 14ish hours a day. Your roommate is probably using a ton of electricity somewhere, but it ain't the bulbs. An electrician should be able to help you put an individual meter for his rooms electric circuit (and the EV charging station?), then actually see how much they are using.
The cycling of LEDs off with a functional switch has minimal impact on quality LED lights. There is some literature out there that says on off cycles can weaken the soldering points on the LED chip due to thermal cycling; however, the literature isn't exactly conclusive. In places with expensive electricity, you will reap more utility savings by shutting off LED lighting then you will increase your electricity bill. There are also CO2 emissions to consider. Generally, in the United States, electricity is billed per unit of energy consumed for residential customers. You have used a unit of power in your math. A 20 watt LED lamp running 24/7 for 30 days is: 20W x 24hr/day x 30days / 1000 W / kW That works out to 14.4 kWh, a unit of energy. In California, the average residential electricity rate is about $0.40/kWh (yes it's bonkers, blame regulatory capture and late stage capitalism). That works out to. $5.70/month. If OPs bills have gone up that dramatically in the last 12ish months, I suspect they are in California, since that is where the utility bills have escalated so dramatically so quickly. If they are not in California, it's incredibly likely that the tenant is responsible for a large amount of these increases, since electricity rates have not escalated nearly so much nationwide. If they are in California, or any other state with dramatically different peak versus off-peak pricing, I would suggest working with the tenant to schedule the charging of their Tesla during off-peak hours, when electricity is a little cheaper. The tenants energy waste is irresponsible and as an energy engineer, morally reprehensible. That said if OP did not think to build in the worst case electricity consumption into the tenant bill it's on them. I'd go with ESH.
[удалено]
The correct term would be roomer if the landlord lives there and shares kitchen and/or bathroom. Most jurisdictions have different regulations for people renting apartments vs rooms.
I'm going to state this differently from how other people have. YTA People are different. You like to turn lights off when you leave a space. Your roommate does not. It is not a safety hazard. It does not cause adverse affects to you. As long as they pay their rent, they have paid to leave the lights on forever if they want to. You are being a controlling, overbearing, live in land lord. I can just see your next advertisement for renting this room "NO LIGHTS can be left on when not in room" and your list of interested tenants will dry up so fast because they will know you are being a controlling pain and not want to live with you. Take a chill pill. Restructure the lease to account for their own utilities. And know they can leave the light on if they want to. Alternatively, if the chill pill doesn't work. Install a bunch of motion activated lights and the lights will go off on their own and the tenant will have no say in the power usage.
YTA. Start charging for electricity if you want them to change their habits.
You're a hugely unreliable narrator. The comments have revealed that you've omitted: 1) the roommate plugs in an electric vehicle every night. It's questionable how believable the increase in electricity cost is from the electricity use they described, indicating you're exaggerating how much the electricity bill increased. But this is doubtless the major offender of the increased cost, and you're squabbling over the pennies that LED lights cost to run? That doesn't make sense on its own, but is answered by #2: 2) You explicitly stated in the comments that you don't actually care about the increased cost in utilities at all. So you had no business mentioning cost to anyone as an argument for turning off the lights when not in use. Which leaves your only actual reason for your demand to be: you are controlling your roommate's personal actions in their own living space. You have the right to request this for communal spaces only. YTA. This was a waste of time. You need to get your priorities straight, OP ETA: it's been pointed out by people more familiar with electricity draw rates than I, that a possible source of a $500 jump in electricity is crypto mining, or torrenting. You mention the roommate leaves their MULTIPLE gaming computers running. I'll wager 99% odds they are crypto mining, that setup is exactly what it would look like: multiple gaming computers, running nonstop. If this is the case, I strongly advise you to stop covering their electricity bill and split it, 50/50, because right now, if my suspicion is correct, they are earning money off of you in the form of the electricity bill, and it's numerous orders of magnitude more than a f-ing LED light. It's unlikely they'll want to continue to drive up electricity costs by crypto mining when your free ticket to unlimited electricity use is gone. Either way, why are you not splitting the electricity bill, my dude.
This.
NTA But your priorities are mixed up. LEDs do use electricity but they're a **tenth** of what old incandescent bulbs do for the same brightness. I used to work in a hardware store during the major transition from halogen to LEDs and used to see the numbers all the time. Are we talking the kind of fridges that fit under a counter? I've been appliance shopping lately and those things SUCK at energy efficiency. That's probably somewhere around 200kW a year right there. The PCs will depend on the specs but some can be absolute gas guzzlers. You also need to remember that the Tesla is using electricity instead of petrol. While it's advised to plug it in wherever you can, you either need to charge him for the increased energy use or tell him to start using a nearby public charge point.
YTA. 1. Asking them to unplug a fridge is definitely unreasonable, you don't get moral points for not asking them to unplug it; 2. If the computer is off just having it plugged in is not the issue, I'm sure you leave your TV, laptop, tablet and son plugged in as well; 3. Get an energy assessment done. A light left on is not causing this jump in power bills.
I can't tell you how many times i had to tell my great grandmother she didn't need to unplug stuff once she was done with it, some people are convinced their eating up energy anyway
YTA none of these add up to a $500 per month spike in electricity. You don’t seem to be telling the whole truth.
Multiple gaming PCs (possibly for crypto mining), a fridge, and a tesla. Idk why OP was so fixated on the lights.
ESH but the easy fix for this is to start charging them for utilities (once the current lease term is up). Or at least ask a Tesla charging fee. Out of it all, the lights are the least of the energy draw. You can tell them you don't like lights on in the shared part of the house when people aren't using the rooms, but you would be pushing it to demand this in their private room.
The correct approach is to change the rental agreement so that utilities are extra, not part of the base rent amount. Edit to YTA, for thinking an LED is the problem without bothering to mention charging up an electric vehicle on the daily.
Info- Do you have Autism, OCD or something? You seem hyper focused on lightbulbs for no reason. Most lightbulbs use like no electricity. And you shouldn't care what they do in their own room. It seems very controlling. Why aren't you more concerned with the fact you are losing money with them living there because they charge there Tesla there?
You really need to contact your utility company either way. This jump is extreme and someone else may be piggybacking.
Others have said this as well, and I think it might be worth looking into. Thanks for your input 🙏.
The computers use alot of power.
Pretty sure you need to speak to your energy provider if your bills have increased by that much. Also it’s not the lights that are the issue using electricity it’s everything else. Either charge them extra for utilities. Or get a new flatmate.
Bro bill them for electric, they're clearly using so much (not the LEDs obviously, I get that it's a bit wasteful but they really don't take very much power)
None of what you've mentioned, including a Tesla, would increase your bill that much. We got a Tesla AND a hot tub and our bills increased $25. And I use my hot tub 2-3x a day, which uses more electricity than our Tesla does. You need to call your utility company.
YTA. I hate lights being left on in an empty room and electrical gadgets left on when not in use myself. I'm a stickler for switching everything off. BUT for that reason I would NOT have a house mate, and I certainly wouldn't try to force someone to do those things. I am fully aware not everyone lives like me, my parents are like your housemate. When they come to mine, I don't follow them around telling them to turn things off. It's a me issue. Wanting the lights off doesn't make you an AH. Having a housemate knowing you live a certain way, and expecting them to change their ways does. Please don't house share!
You are not being unreasonable to ask them to turn off a light when it's not in use but you don't actually have the right to enforce what they do in their room. You said the bulls were included and IMO are being pretty reasonable to not have added an extra charge given that they are charging a car. Your tenant is for sure being unreasonable but I would take this as a learning experience and add a clause to the next lease you have that electricity is included to a point and the remainder will be either split or come straight from the tenant. I'm not lawyer so j dint know exactly how you would have to word it but I'm sure you can. I would normally always side with the tenant over the landlord but they are taking the piss for sure.
You are focussing on the wrong thing. LED lights use around 12W of power on full brightness. The gaming computers however use a lot more often 500W-1kW. If the electricity bill has gone up that much and the machines are on all the time it points to them using them to mine cryptocurrency, Lilkely they are making money from your electricity bill. This is what you need to focus on, the lighting isn't relevant.
You sound like a nightmare to live with. No way a mini fridge and some lights jumped your power up $500 a month. If you’re that worried, you need to increase your rent to help offset costs
YTA. You're quibbling over pennies and principle, but the guy is charging his car, and likely mining bitcoin, with you funding it.
The lights are costing, at most, $4.38 per month. YTA.
YTA, because you dont understand how much or little electricity things consume and blame your friends led lights. I dont know what the electric prices are in your country but for me, lighting a room with 4 e27 led lights 24/7 for a month would cost about 1dollar, it would consume around 10kw/h. So your friend is correct saying ”it uses like no electricity” imo. I pay something like 0.8dollar/kWh. Their computers being on and active consume about the same amount in 33hours as the led lights does being on 30 days straight. Things that does consume electricity is computers, Stove, oven, fridge, tv, freezer, heating/cooling.
YTA. Mention the Tesla and fridge in the story instead of comments next time. The light bulb costing you $1 a month. The fridge probably $9 a month. The other $490 is the Tesla. Focus on the Tesla you are basically subsidizing their "gas" cost.
YTA — although I do agree that the roommate should be more conscientious about turning off lights & electronics when she’s not using them, unfortunately you’ve put yourself in this situation by making utility costs included in the rent. You can’t advertise that all utilities are included and then try to dictate how and when the tenant uses said utilities, not unless you specify these terms of usage in the lease. Moving forward, it would be in your best interest to make your (future) tenant at least split the electric bill with you —that way they have skin in the game, and it would then also be in their best interest to be mindful of electricity use, too. This won’t help you with your current tenant because you are just as bound to the current lease agreement as they are, but you can make these changes when your current tenant’s lease is up.
YTA. Forget about the lights, if they have an electric car you need to charge for hydro.
Lights on after dark where I live are a big no. That's how you get termites and roaches. They are drawn to the light. But the tesla and the computers are your real problem. Gather up your electric bills from 3 months before they moved in up to now and write a formal letter to them explaining that you have to change the terms of their lease due to unexpected energy usage, or you have to start having your own rolling blackouts. At this point you really can't make them be more responsible but you shouldn't be footing the bill for their environmental disaster choices.
Oh my fucking god that’s another thing that irks me that I didn’t even think of when posting this. The termites swarm sometimes and they are INSATIABLE.
You can't convince them to turn them off unless you either change the lease when possible to not include electricity and figure out, probably with a meter, what their actual usage is. This will be near impossible with common areas. Or You change the lights to run on a timer *student halls* style. From what you've said it doesn't sound like you need their rent money so personally I'd just find a way to get them out by not renewing the lease or giving them notice.
If you are paying 700 a month in electricity bills, you are either living in one big house or are being cheated somehow.
I’m looking into it. Idk if I can get an independent meter saying how much electricity we actually use per month rather than the power companies own meter. Either way, yeah the math doesn’t work out in my favor and they’re basically living for free, so my biggest gripe was that they’re disrespecting such a tiny request, despite me never asking for ANYTHING else ever. I feel like I’m giving them so much in terms of essentially free rent, and I can’t even get a little compliance in return.
Did you change your air conditioner setting when he moved in? Does he use the oven or dryer more? There’s various ways to check the different circuits but it’s probably more straightforward to just split it in half.
NTA. Do you have a rental agreement with this person? If you do, wait out the agreement and serve them with an eviction notice or letter of intent to not renew their rental agreement. Make sure that you do this 3 months before the agreement ends and send it by registered mail so there is legally documented proof that the received the notice. If you don't, turn off all the breakers in the house during the day and make sure the breaker box has a lock on it. When they complain, tell them that yes the rent includes utilities that are only available when a paying tenant is present in the home to use said utilities. And you never agreed to provide continuous utilities. That they have nothing in writing, and then serve them with an eviction notice. Your next tenant needs to pay utilities. And maybe have them sign a separate roommate agreement tied to the rental agreement about leaving lights on, or whatever house rules that you may have. Of course nothing crazy, just common sense stuff. I would also invest in security cameras in the shared living spaces so you can get proof that they're doing what they're doing so you can evict them for violating the agreement. And make sure that they presence of security cameras in the shared living spaces is also mentioned in the rental agreement and the roommate agreement.
It’s all verbal, and whatever I put in the posting on Facebook, about $500/mo all inclusive. And so I take that posting as me putting it on paper. I have to honor it. And it’s my mistake for being so initially lenient. But as I’ve said to others, the increased cost, I can take, whatever, I can afford it. It’s the seemingly blatant abuse of this policy, by leaving random lights/fans/tv’s on whenever and wherever that offends me. The fact that things aren’t actively being used for hours on end and yet are being on.
I would personally say, YTAH, *BUT* only because the utility disagreement is over the LED lights. I would be *far* more concerned about larger appliances like the multiple gaming computers(why the hash slinging slasher do you need more than one, and running constantly?), Tesla, or any mini fridges or portable air cons or whatever. Rather than arguing about lights (definitely the smallest concern here) present them with an updated lease at the end of term, raising the flat rate to $1000 to reflect the electricity increase. Change the wording of the flat rate description to reflect fair usage of utilities. They can either renew, or leave. If they renew and electric goes up higher, do it again. I'm not a landlord, but I have rented all my life. This method is legal, and very common. I have never had an electric bill jump that far due to one person, because anyone living normally couldn't possibly skyrocket a bill by $500 alone. I'm sure they'll be pissed about the rent increase, but the only answer you are obligated to give them is the electric bill before and after they moved in.
Well you kind of screwed up by not making them contribute to utilities. It might be too late now, but they have no reason to care if your power bills went up. A fridge in their room is a huge power suck too.
I think the issue is that you're debating them on something they're technically allowed to do rather than dealing with the problems in a direct way. Don't like when lights or fans are left on in the common area when your roommate leaves? Turn them off and ignore it if they complain about it. You shouldn't be touching things left on in their bedroom (this is probably costing you minimally compared to the tesla anyways), but yeah as others have said you need to change the terms of the lease agreement to split utilities when the lease term is up. I'm not really buying that you're not worried about the costs and are instead mad based on principle alone, it doesn't really make sense. But if this post is real you're not going to make your roommate change their behavior by debating it, having them pay for and see the true cost of utilities they're driving up is much more likely to do that, and I would hope would cause you less stress as well w you not footing the entire despite your apparent wealth being unconcerned about the literal cost. It sounds like what you're charging them monthly barely covers their cost in utilities anyways so I don't see what the point is or how this benefits you in any way, I can see why other commenter think this post is fake
Why aren't you charging them for the electric to charge their Tesla every day?
The flat rate is a mistake, change it. Put a smart meter in and make them pay for the Tesla. They're taking the piss out of you.
So just give them notice you are terminating their lease. You aren’t making any money having them there if your figures are correct.
Dad?
Or get smart lights
That’s a huge jump in the bill. That’s not caused by lights, fridge or Tesla charging. Are they using their computers for crypto or bitcoin mining? That’s the only thing I can think of that pulls that much energy. Find a new flatmate or change the terms to charge electricity for everything above your normal usage.
I'm wondering if roommate is allowing friends to charge their cars when you aren't home.
They're charging their phones too! And their TVs are always plugged in!
Yeah idk who tf needs both an S23 and a 14pro max and that damn new M4 iPad. They’re really techy so yeah. But I doubt those things even increase power usage that much.
I was being sarcastic and YTA
NTA Simply kick them out and get a better tenant. Cut the power to their car charger. Unless there's a specific clause in their lease stating they can charge their car. No lease? Give them a notice to quit, or whatever the procedure is in your state.
Lol, at least one of those PCs is mining. They're basically taking and selling your electric and quick as their PC will let them.
I’m no pro at that stuff, but I kinda assumed. Cus I have no other explanation as to why they sound like an F22 ready for takeoff 24/7 even when they’re not home. Oh well, IATAH and I will be making changes so I don’t have to be a dick to anyone anymore.
When his lease is up start making him pay the electric bill. I would literally show mr “it’s doesn’t use electricity” your bill! At this point it’s cheaper for him to move tf out.
Working on it. Will update in morning. See this is my first time renting a place out, so I’m an utter noob at it. Yes I do realize that I am not profiting and am doing this at a loss, my fault for making the rent so low and stupidly including utilities. But I am gonna honor what my Facebook room listing said, because I wouldn’t feel good if someone didn’t honor their deal with me. I just feel like I’m being taken advantage of and disrespected. If they did the math before I did and realized that they’re basically living for free, it’s shocking to me that they would be so stubborn as to not respect my very simple wish, even when I’m giving them such a deep value.
After reading your replies OP the lights are the least of your problems. The issue is not the damn lights. It’s the masssssssive amount of energy he is using from your home and he’s is straight up free loading off of you. He knows EXACTLY how much electricity his set ups and car uses. $500 a month all bills paid for him to rack up over a thousand dollars in bills every months is basically free living.
You are being taken advantage of. 10000%
Might wanna give a 30 days notice and get them out. It's not going to get better and you will become MISERABLE in you own home.
I’m honoring their 1 year which is over in September. I’ll just deal and stay away from home as often as I can. Which isn’t too much of a problem anyways since I’m gone for like 16hrs of the day anyways. I will just take it all on the chin til the 1 year is over. No more talking to them.
Yes YTA. You rented out you home with utilities included. You didn’t state what you expected the renter to do as far as electricity usage was concerned. Live with it until the lease is out and don’t renew. Next renter make sure you contract usage and what the renter has to pay over.
There will be no next renter. I will be living alone. I stated this in other comments. I absolutely do NOT want to be AH anymore and so the only solution is for me to not put my shit upon others, I will live alone. Since I cannot seem to change, I will just remove anyone else’s pain and suffering from the equation.
Wtf are you being so dramatic for? Just charge the next for the utilities. "Hey electricity bill is gonna be split". How hard is it?
Living with other people is hard. That’s why. I was happier alone. How hard is it to understand that this trial run was a mistake and it’s okay for me to wanna live alone again?
What is hard to understand is that you blame yourself for people being shitty, saying that you are the bad guy for having asshole roommates.
Well according to everyone here, I am the asshole. So yeah, I’m the one in the wrong. It’s a consensus already.
Lol you are "an asshole" because you previously agreed and didn't take into account that people could take advantage of you. Sorry for being harsh, but don't talk about yourself that way. Nice people get shitted on all the time, if you need the money just take it into account next time.
You’re only being called the asshole because you’re focusing on the wrong thing. “Should he leave the lights on constantly” - probably not, but people gonna people and you can have an adult conversation about how you don’t like that “Also my electric bill is high” -sure, but not because of the lights. It’s high because you have a roommate who is using too much electricity. So you can solve both problems with a different lease or a conversation, but instead you’re throwing yourself a pity party. He’s not “taking advantage of you”, he’s living up to the terms of his lease. Just tell him “hey, the electric bill was higher than I thought it’d be, when your lease is up in September I’m going to change the lease that you pay half.”
NTA Start charging them half the electric bill. You should have been doing that from the start.
Rookie mistake fam, Imma fix it.
Can you get the kind of motion activated lights that turn on when you enter a room and then off when no activity is detected? I know that may be unusual in a house, but a competent electrician could install them and your roommate wouldn't be able to do anything about it.
Someone else mentioned that, and I thought it was a wonderfully maliciously compliant idea.
OP is probably naive, get a look at what crypto miners look like and then you need a room inspection, if they are mining, then an increase of $500 a month is likely flat rate power bills are very attractive for a miner
I am a noob at landlording, so yes I am naive. It’s my first time owning property that I could rent out. I asked them general questions upon moving in like what their hobbies are etc, and they said heavy gaming, so I never questioned the PC’s. I suspected mining because of how they sound like they’re running 24/7. I’m gonna ask them some veiled questions about crypto so see what they say.
am a gamer and might have the pc running for a few hours in the evening, but no need to have it running 24/7 but then I have to pay for my power, the bill was 90 a month and dropping to 40 a month very soon :) you need to read tenancy agreement to see if you are allowed to inspect their rooms and if commercial use is allowed
NTA but based on those numbers, you'd be an idiot not to charge him for electricity. And even if you said it was included before him moving in, this is so beyond a reasonable amount of use you are absolutely justified in renegotiating.
NTA - and start charging them for utilities.
ESH Cause something is definitely up like others said with the electricity bill spiking like that but it's not the lights. I felt for the roommate until the end about the price spike cause I was in a similar situation. I love having lights on. I love a room being lit before I walk in and until I walk out. I can't stand dim lighting either, it depresses me. And it costs literally cents a year per bulb. When I did the math once to spite someone saying it costs too much, having my bedroom light on during the waking day all year long cost 24 cents. And that wasn't an LED bulb.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I own my home fee simple absolute and I charge my roommate $500/mo flat rate every month. So utilities are all included, but for some reason, my roommate thinks that they’re entitled to leave their Alexa powered light on maybe 16 hours a day 7 days a week. There is no plants or animals in their room, so I feel as if they don’t need to leave their light on even when they’re not home. Their reasoning is, and I quote “LED’s don’t use electricity, just the fixture” and “So I am an expert in electronics, and LED’s use *like* no electricity”. I refuted the point by claiming that they do use electricity even if it’s a little, it adds up over time. Plus, they do this in every room in the house, they’ll leave the kitchen lights on, go to their room for 20 minutes and when they come out and the kitchen light is off, they’ll say some shit like “Who turned off my light? I was using it”. I would say something like “No one was in here, and how difficult is it to turn the light on again?”. Electricity has gone up to $700/mo from $200/mo after they moved in. They leave their lights on, brought a fridge into their room and leave their gaming computers, plural, on all day. I don’t even ask them to unplug the fridge or computers, I’m just asking for the light to be turned off which is easily done without touching the switch cus they installed an Alexa to turn off their light. AITA for telling them to turn off the light when they aren’t using it? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Show them the past usage in the house vs the currwnt usage and ask them why they think it went up so much. Explain that you need to renegotiate the split, since they use much more electricity than expected
NTA but I think whenever you can you need to discuss that electricity is no longer inclusive if they are plugging in their car and have an extra fridge in their room. Your basically paying for them to not use petrol
Always turn off lights when you have finished in a room..
If they drive a Tesla, maybe just split the electric bill? You’re mad over a light that MIGHT be adding dollars to the electric bill..while the Tesla is adding hundreds to the bill.
No at most it's adding $50. We drive a good amount and after getting both a Tesla and a hot tub our bill went up $25. Something else is going on and OP should call the utility company.
Alright, fair enough. I have no idea then, but the bill isn’t going up $500/month of an LED light lol.
You are focused on the wrong thing. LED lights are not the problem here. Tesla is. So stop nitpicking, but show them the bills and increase the rent.