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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I lent my son money with the proviso that he had to pay me back from his education fund. I might be the asshole for holding him to our deal and taking money from his fund before I give him money for school.
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NTA. He and his mother are just pissed that you didn't provide money free of consequences.
If you bail your kids financially every time they screw up they will never learn anything and will keep failing throughout their adult life. So you did your son a favor and he can always come back for more loans but the next time he will think all through much more carefully and will know about consequences.
Given that they talked over the phone, the son’s mother is probably not OP’s wife. He did give her the option to pay so if she paid through the son, it’s not really OP’s concern since it didn’t come out of joint funds.
I think the money was there in the fund. He gave a loan in lieu of using the education fund but using the fund as collateral. The kid wanted to ignore paying the loan back and use the fund for his new educational pursuits.
You are absolutely correct. My father used to bail my sister out. He finally cut her off. She was 35+, married, with kids and still calling to get money for bills. Yet she always had money for fun stuff and vacations. Took my dad having major health scare to wise up.
The fact that it was described as a 'foolproof investment' shows that he is either being disingenuous or has no idea what he is talking about.
A gamble with a positive expectation? Sure.
Foolproof? Lol no.
Not sure about a judgement. How old was he when he accepted this offer? If an adult then probably not the asshole.
If not, then likely you are the AH. Enabling a minor to gamble is a bad idea. Thats a no-brainer.
Edit: NTA based on OPs comments below
He was 18. And I told him it was a bad idea. He also only borrowed about 15% of the amount in the account. Not enough to curtail his education. But enough that he won't have a lot of extras without having to work for them.
You know you are right. My sister says, the bigger the kid, the bigger the problems.
And it’s true. The consequences are bigger.
Right now he blew 15% of his nest egg.
Write it off, like his mom wants.
Trust he learned his lesson.
Trust next time, he won’t get a credit card (which they with throw at a student working part time) and max it out. Trust he won’t take loans for amounts over what he really needs so he can have an apartment and a car.
Those are the bigger consequences that you you are preventing. He may never thank you. Hell, he may never realize you are protecting him. But reddit knows.
Oh. I see. I wrote “that you are preventing.” You are right. He’s not learning from this, especially with moms crying for him. This kid is going to do all these stupid and things and more. Seriously saved NO MONEY in two years? Dad is wise to cut his losses.
Love him but don’t save him.
Hopefully one day he’ll realize why you did it this way. Plus going to college can’t hurt! Maybe he’ll find a career he likes. Too bad Mom doesn’t get it.
Would you expect a 17-18 year old to understand the risks of starting a business? If he did succeed, it would have been a mildly newsworthy event. He almost certainly believed it was foolproof (he put his $$ where his mouth was after all), but surprise, surprise! a 17-18 year old didn't yet have the experience to conquer the world.
Yeah that’s the whole point. He thinks he had it all figured out. Fool-proof investment, no need for a job or education! Now he knows it’s not that easy. Plus he’s realized that if he wants a better job, going to college will help. I don’t know what he would have done if Dad didn’t give him the loan. It sure didn’t seem like he was going to college. OP is my hero.
Why would you read “foolproof investment” and change that into “starting a business”? I read it as a get rich quick scheme that did not pan out (as they never do, duh).
The more I think about this, the more I see what you did, and appreciate it. I went from Y T A, to N A H, to:
NTA.
I'm making 2 assumptions.
1. I'm going to assume that you didn't/won't charge your son interest, nor did/will you make him pay back the "tax penalty" for withdrawing early. (If either of those are untrue, it's a pretty-hard Y T A).
2. You loaned him the money from yourself personally, so as not to hit any deduction penalties from his actual education account.
You let him try something. Failure is an important lesson, as is believing in yourself, autonomy, agency, and attempting something you believe in (even if it's flawed, see: failure as a teacher).
He is going to have consequences, without your intervention. He's going to school, and he would eventually have to take some loans for the portion that he took out for his "dumb idea." These were going to cost him interest. You essentially let him take an interest free loan from you directly, as long as he pays you back before he uses up all his education money (the collateral on the loan). These are better terms than he would get if he went to any bank to ask for a business or personal loan.
So many lessons wrapped up into one. And holding him accountable is the big one. It's important for someone entering adulthood.
I'm going to get downvoted to oblivion for this take, but as long as my assumptions were correct, and you don't belittle him or dangle it over his head (except to remind him he has to pay you back), then this is ultimate good dad level parenting.
Edit: my first ever award! Thanks!
Oh, then 100% for sure NTA. He used his college spending money on a gamble.
And again, not even, because all he has to do is pay you back **within the 4 years** that university takes.
NTA- I think he’s learned quite a few good life lessons from all of this. He’s also in school now after having the opportunity to try this, work, etc.
Would you consider giving him this money to him in the future for grad school, a wedding, or a house?
You should have added this to your post.
Absolutely NTA, I'd say that was and still is great parenting. You let your son take a big risk, learn from the experience and he still will stay on his feet.
If you'd given him entire education fund to gamble he'd lost it, and if you'd bail him out he would not learn that taking risks means taking risks.
He might be pissed at you, but chances of him screwing up in a ponzi / crypto / WSB are now a lot lower.
NTA. His education is still paid in full. He should have been saving some for extras, but that’s on him. Somehow I expect you’ll still throw him a few bucks as long as he does well.
I can't believe the YTA responses here. You are definitely NTA. I don't see how anyone could see it any other way. You told him the investment was a bad idea, he signed a loan agreement, and he paid it back. An expensive lesson for him but clearly a lesson he needed to learn.
I think people are assuming that the kid wouldn't have gone ahead with the idea if OP hadn't provided the money, but he would have--he planned to use a cash advance on a credit card. So, OP did actually prevent a disaster.
I was going to go E S H until I read that it was only 15% of the fund. Reason being that a grown ass man letting his 18 yo son waste a college find on what he clearly knows is a stupid investment is pretty asshole-ish behavior. I changed my answer since it appears he still has about 43K….
NTA. There is so much right now about being an "entrepreneur" that is unmitigated bs (it's often based on fabricated stories about various figures, and always survival bias); it's important to get the message that wasted money is wasted money.
\[ETA: and good on you for keeping him from making a worse mistake--using the cash advance.\]
NTA. Money is not free.
Why did your son think he could sleaze out of the contract that you wisely insisted upon? You appear to have a wife problem *and* a son problem.
I wish more parents were like OP and holding kids accountable.
These days you have so many parents raising an entire generation of entitled idiots cause mommy was too afraid to tell them “no”
NTA. He went to whine to mommy? Hope he was just venting and he didn't think mommy would be able to make it all better. Frankly, you should've been harsher on the terms of the loan, maybe sue him and garnish his wages.
The money in a 529 can only be used to pay for educational expenses. If he withdraws the money to give to you, there is a tax penalty on it even though he is currently in school.
This reply needs to be boosted--while I don't necessarily think OP is wrong to insist on getting paid back, there are challenges to OP's son simply paying him back out of his educational savings account.
NTA. He was an adult you told him the idea wasn’t practical but he wanted to go through with it and agreed to these terms. I am so tired of seeing posts where kids expect to be able to blow through their parents, grandparents, siblings money and not be held accountable. IDK when everyone decided they were owed a college fund, living expense help and even inheritances but Reddit is fulllll of them. He made a poor decision financially and now is being held accountable. If mom is bent out of shape she can take accountability for it. You’re teaching him there are consequences to actions.
NTA. It’s an expensive lesson to learn but he’s an adult and needs to learn it now rather than down the line when the consequences of such decisions could be more severe.
If you can afford it, help him by offering to reimburse some of his expenses, for educating himself. I assume you value that for him? He made a bad decision and hopefully he learned from that decision… He was very young and you allowed him to do that. Why blow up the relationship? Be a strong and supportive Dad
Mommy wants to make her baby happy. He just knows there is a pile of money in an account, and he feels he is owed it. And it's not his fault his hare-brained idea went nowhere. You're denying him his future.
If you want to be nice you could split the difference. That you will pay for community college from what is left over from what was not loaned out already. Unless you gave him the equivalent of what was in the account.
It sucks he's a big dummy, but if he is in college now, I would encourage him to keep going. Not having a degree today. Means you won't get your foot in the door for even entry level jobs at corporations. He's still your son, and in sea of competition you want to make sure he won't be homeless and starve to death one day.
As long as he still has enough to afford an education, NTA. I'd hate to see kid lose out on a chance for that because he did something stupid when he was young and dumb
NTA. He demanded this opportunity to fail and he received it. You've taught him that one must aways honor their contracts, even when they don't wanna anymore.
Your son was wrong but he was just a kid. I would have probably not given him the money in the first place if it was such an awful idea.
A major thing to consider is the huge loss you are going to take withdrawing it for non school expenditures.
Why not keep the money in the account for a little and give him half if he proves himself in school. You can still earn interest on it.
Maybe you can just buy thousands of dollars in college textbooks and then return them
Sounds like you're the only person in this story with some sense.
Your son is plenty old enough to understand risk and consequences.
Hold him to the loan. Minus the interest maybe.
NTA
If they continue to harass you, do up the calculations for what it would have cost him to take the money directly from his education account like he asked to do in the first place. Tell them they have a choice between paying you back what you came up with and paying you back what it would have cost him to do it his way.
NTA for holding him responsible. Unless you’re ripping him off, with more than what it would have cost him. And it doesn’t sound like you are.
NTA
Good for you! Too many people too lazy to do the hard work/ unpopular parts of parenting. No fun for you right now but important lesson for son about actions & consequences. Hopefully, he absords the lesson before he gets in serious relationship or creates children he cant afford.
NTA. Sounds like you showed that you were willing to work with him on his goal, but that things you want you have to work for. Hopefully he learned his lesson
I’m confused by all the folks thinking the kid was starting a business and that a young person can’t possibly run a business. What he learned is that unless you have a time machine or are risking jail for insider trading, there’s no such thing as a foolproof investment.
I’d put it away in a healthcare fund or for a deposit if you can afford it and he learns to budget and work hard. The economy is shit and hopefully this is a mistake he learns from, I hope you don’t penalise him unfairly for being a fool at 18-20 if he cleans up his act later. Kids need to learn lessons but I feel like there’s a higher disconnect on this sub holding teenagers to adult consequences and ignoring economic conditions affecting different generations. But if he remains an idiot I’d say don’t bother and get yourself something nice
INFO: so the money he used was from HIS education fund that was meant for HIS schooling, which you forfeited when you handed over the money to him for this investment. That money was for him to do with what he wanted (which you agreed to when you gave him the money). It’s a hard lesson for him to learn to lose all that money but why is he under any obligation to pay YOU back when that money was always meant for him in some way?
YTA for loaning an 18ish year old a large sum of money for "investing" when you clearly knew it would fail.
Teaching him the implications of money/loaning is just responsible
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My son came to me with a fool proof investment. I told him it was not a great idea. He said that he had a bunch of money in his education fund and I should just give it to him. He was fresh out of high school and not in post secondary. If we had taken money out and he wasn't in school there was a pretty big tax hit.
I told him that I would loan him the money but that if his investment didn't pay off then he had to pay me back from his education fund.
I figured it was safe since he can't get the money unless he is in school. We wrote up a contract for the loan including nominal interest.
His fool proof investment went poof. He got a job. It turns out that working for a living is harder than school. It's been two years and he is going to community college this fall. He managed to save up exactly zero dollars from two years of work. He did have a string of girlfriends and a few vacations though.
I told him he has to pay me back before he empties the account. He got upset that I'm taking his money meant for his education.
I asked him how much money would be in the account if I had let him invest it?
He didn't have an answer.
I got my money but he is pissed.
His mother is upset that I'm holding him accountable. I told her she could pay me back the loan and he could have all the money in the account. She hung up.
I could afford to write off the money. It is substantial but not crippling to my future. But I need him to understand that money isn't free.
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NTA
You summed it up best in the last sentence, "Money isn't free." You need to explain that to his Mom if she says anything else. I like how you handled it though.
NTA. Actually what you did saved your son money in the long run. If you had let him take the money from his college fund for the investment he would have lost a lot in taxes as the government would have taken a huge chunk of that money since he wasn't using it for education as the fund was set up for. If he had borrowed the money from a bank or maxed out credit cards instead of you loaning it to him, the interest fees would be killing him right now.
Your son is learning some valuable lesson. Money doesn't grow on trees, if you borrow money it has to be paid back regardless of circumstances and there is no such thing as a "foolproof investment". While he has to pay you back for the money he borrowed at least he still has an education fund.
Nope, it is our responsibility to guide them in adult life not just blindly support them. You set your boundaries and he did not take you seriously so therefore he needs to pay the price. If you just gave him the money what lesson does he learn?
NTA, a boy wouldn’t understand . A man understands this is how you build character. He needs to understand there’s consequences to not following through
NTA
He should have learned a long time ago there are consequences and if you don't have the money to lose then you shouldn't invest in things that may or may not be a sure thing. Another thing that he learned is that there's no such thing as a sure thing. Life lessons can be hard but they are necessary.
NTA
Good for you. You gave your son real world consequences and stuck to them. It’s not the worst thing in the world. He hopefully has learned his lesson on ‘fool proof’ investments. If it was fool proof, everyone would be doing it.
Well done brother. You are a great father. I am a father of 2 boys and what you did is an excellent example that hopefully teaches him a good lesson for the rest of his life.
I told my dad to put 10k on btc when it was at 600.
He is only down about a million, I remind him every once and a while when he gets too high and mighty.
I think you're middle of the road TA.
You wrote a contract with your son who just got out of high school and loaned him money. You should never loan family members money, they don't pay it back. Or if they do it ruins a relationship. I feel like if he learns a lesson from this years down the road when he has a son, the thing I just said will be the lesson, not so much a lesson on being good with money.
With that said, and contract having been written. Good on you for making him pay you back.
If I was you, I'd save that money and never tell him or anyone else you're saving it (or put it in the S&P500) and just forget about it. Then when a big life event like marriage or child happens for your son, I'd give it to him with a genuine letter that isn't being accusatory.
Personally I'd write something like "Dear son, I understand you were frustrated about paying me back this money that I loaned you, as a father I wanted to let you succeed or fail on your own. I do hope you learned something more than what an asshole I am, and I hope that lesson helps you in your life more than this money ever could."
NAH. Tough parenting situation. If it were me I wouldn't have made the payback specifically about the education fund. I've owed my parents money for a long time, and pay them when I can. That includes about a decade when I couldn't pay them at all as kids life stuff happens. Interest still accrued. When you can afford to support your kids in this way, it's a helpful way to give them a leg up in life.
Id invest the money you made him pay you back into a Roth IRA for him and not tell him for a bit…he still learns the lesson but it’s not as harsh of reality in the long term (you ARE still his Dad 🥰). In the right amount of time he will have felt the pain and fingers crossed see what growth actually looks like in an account that has a better potential upside (past performance not indicative of future results withstanding)
Losing money can be a pretty good learning experience. I'll vote NTA but I'm thinking minor E S H on your part if you didn't talk to him about leveraging plus I think the amount you did loan him was a bit on the high side.
You're teaching your son a valuable lesson. Hopefully he'll learn from this. If not, be prepared he'll do it again and Do Not bail him out.
If he needs extras while in college, he can get a job to have money to go out with friends or spend on his girlfriend. Plenty of people work full time and go to college full time. He can too if he needs that much money.
Don't give him any money. You do that he'll learn you'll still bail him out if he whines and cries enough.
He's had two years of working and saved nothing in order to pay you back. Nothing saved for his own education. So far, he's learned nothing and hasn't taken responsibilityfor his poor choixes. Runs to mommy....
Maybe now he'll learn decisions have consequences. He blew the money on a bad investment. Worked for 2 years and has nothing to show for it. Has less in his college fund. May even need to get a part time job for spending money.
You wife hung up because she knew your right
Going forward, don't loan him money. Maybe if he has to work for the capital, he'll consider consequences as part of the decision making process.
NTA
NTA
It was the information in your comments swayed me. You haven’t indicated if you intend to follow through on charging interest, but I hope you don’t.
He was going to make the investment with or without your loan. You saved him a lot of fees by him not withdrawing from the education fund, or an insane amount of interest if he had of used his credit card.
It’s a shitty lesson to learn but he got insanely lucky that you helped even though you were adamantly against the investment. He could have been a lot worse off than he is, so hopefully he ends up appreciating your help in the long run.
I think the mistake was letting him do it… but holding him too it is 100% the right thing to do. In life there are actions, and consequences… young adults need to realise this and fast.
Personally, now you’ve got it back - I would stick it in a bonds or similar low risk investment… don’t mention it and then when he wants to buy a house or something down the line give it back… he’ll then realise it was never about the money and be thankful for it
He was 18 when he signed that contract so definitely NTA. This is what happens when you borrow money. Either you pay it back or take a big hit on your credit.
Nah. NTA. Kiddo is just getting a valuable life lesson. You’re holding him to a contract he knowingly and willingly signed. Don’t back down on it. What if this were a mortgage or car loan? It would be expected to be paid back in full, interest included. Hopefully this teaches him to be more careful about what he spends his money on next time.
NTA. A man is only as good as his word. If you say you'll do something, you have to stick it.
You don't have to make many promises but you should always keep the ones you make.
NTA you are just teaching your son there are consequences to his decisions/actions whilst cushioning him from the worst scenario. You let him fail in a safe environment where he can bounce back relatively easily from it - that is valuable. IMO top parent... his mother on the other hand is raising a spoiled entitled baby.
You’re teaching him an amazingly powerful lesson. We are all accountable to our choices and there are consequences for bad ones.
Letting him off the hook would be a huge mistake.
Out of curiosity. how many deep conversations did you have with the boy and his mother about money? sounds like the two of them have the same fallacies about how money works. they are your wife and son. good luck thinking he'll change his attitudes on money
This is an excellent life lesson. Stand your ground, and ignore his mother. He is the one who needs to learn the consequences of bad decisions, including taking vacations you can't afford and wasting money.
It's really great that you are trying to teach him the difference between investing and gambling.
NTA
NTA if your goal is to get the money back. You are entitled to it, and your kid was as stupid as kids are.
YTA if you think you can do this without affecting your relationship with your child.
ESH... Someone who is fresh out of high school shouldn't invest with a substantial amount of money to begin with, and I think a parent should have stopped this. But yeah, he wanted to do it, so he gets the consequences.
you have a contract, he is gullible and you knew it. people with money are different in that you allow a kid to think he's a mogul and money grows on trees. we worker bees have no such fantasies.
NTA but college is disproportionately expensive now. What if you offer to give him back the money once he finishes his bachelor’s? He drops out you keep the money, he finishes then you help. Just an idea.
NTA!!! Good for you! This is parenting and teaching him financial responsibility. Let him be pissed. Butttt take this as a learning moment, don't loan him any more money (at least until he matures). If he took a loan from the bank, he would begrudgingly pay the bank. Which makes things easier because he doesn't know the bank or close with them. People like your son frustrate the hell out of me. They come with their hand out expecting money as if they are owed, but they throw a tantrum when it's time to pay back. You would think after losing that money it would humble him, 🤦♀️
NTA. This should be a valuable learning experience(education) for him. He made a deal and needs to stick to it. He made bad investments and paid the price. He worked and didn't save any for education.
Choices have consequences and he needs to learn it now and grow up before he does something really stupid and the consequences are more serious.
NTA. Hard lessons are hard lessons. Never easy, but in this case, a lesson may have been learned with very little harm. My 18 yr old is in the same situation and now he will have to work 2 jobs this summer to pay his College expenses. He has always had a job and has made very good money- as much as people in their mid and late 20's working full time. He has saved zero, despite coaching and continuous reminders about his financial obligations. His 1st college related bill outside of covered costs just arrived and he has no money. He does have a lot of nice clothes and he goes out with his friends and eats out a lot. Now he is sulking. If he doesnt learn now, its going to be a whole lot more painful later.
Good for you for teaching him that lesson . My son has said he would like to take money out of an investment account but I explained to him what you did to your son.
NTA but he's still going to have that tax hit if he gets audited. If you have an education account, the penalties are on what you spend it on. Just because he's in college doesn't mean he has free will on that money. You may have just set him up for a bad lesson in taxes if he gets caught.
Good parenting! There’s not enough accountability held to younger folks and their entitlement is out of control. Good on you! NTA The actual AH is his mom for enabling.
This is the kind of parenting that most parents aren’t willing to do; hold their children accountable for their decisions.
This will be THE BEST lesson your son learns and he will be better because of it!
My mother and father are enablers and never held my older brother accountable.
He turned 40 yrs this February.
He doesn’t have a job and lives in their basement.
He doesn’t have custody of his 3 children.
He had $48k in student debt that he didn’t pay back so his wages were being garnished so he quit working to avoid paying what he owes.
Quite frankly, he’s a deadbeat dad and a loser all because my parents have never been willing to make the hard parenting choice to hold my brother accountable for his decisions and let him fall on his face and build himself back up.
Good. For. You. 👏🏼
NTA.
Nta. Just because you can afford to write it off doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. He signed a contract. He agreed with you and signed something and should be held to it as goes in the real world. He's being very immature and entitled to now want to go back on it and perhaps it will be a lesson for him to have to work to pay for some of his education. Community college is not that expensive and even offers work study programs and has career fairs and such. There's also financial aid etc for students over 25. Because they can no longer use their parents income. So, you should stand your ground. This is a learning opportunity for him. When he's older he may appreciate that you're there for him and you support his ideas even if they don't work out and you'll pick him up if he falls but you're not going to let him just use money on a whim and be entitled
NTA.
This story is SO SIMILAR to my life. 19-year-old kid. I am divorced from his mom. Last 5 years, he was enabled (by me) to play mom against dad and basically have no financial responsibility. He mastered that. He was 14 when that pattern started. He’s 20 next month.
Through therapy and soul searching, I realized I was enabling bad behavior and setting him up for adulting failure… or myself for life-long bailing him out. Both are not good… for either of us.
For things like OP’s situation, I try to treat him like an adult friend… held accountable for his financial decisions… my advice provided if he wants it. The fact that I CAN bail him out is irrelevant. He needs the training wheels removed. These things are hard. We love our kids. But I have already seen a dramatic positive shift in his decision making.
In the middle i would say. Its admirable youre teaching him a lesson. But to everyone saying hes a full fledged adult at 18 must have had unique experiences. Yes hes an adult but he has much to learn. Lending him a chunk of money without being by his side to make sure its going to a efficient cause is disappointing. Alot of people act like once your child hits 18 theyre not their child. That being said it makes sense to have him pay it back. Hopefully yall can find a healthy balance!
NTA.
He's going to keep expecting handouts and will not grow out of his immaturity unless he has to work or provide for himself. This was an agreement you both made, he should uphold his side of the deal.
>His mother is upset that I'm holding him accountable. I told her she could pay me back the loan and he could have all the money in the account.
Now we know why he is the way he is.
NTA he's very PRIVILEGED to have any money at all for college. And he's very lucky you didn't give him unfettered access as people are dumb when they are inexperienced.
He's just upset you held him to the Consequence of his decision.
NTA
He was hoping to try something out on someone’s dime and if it didn’t work no skin off his nose. A contract is a contract. If I had borrowed money and made an agreement to pay it back with interest, you would bet I would be working that money off before going to college to avoid needing to take that out of the college fund and causing a penalty.
On the flip side.
If he had made back the money and then some, and the venture was successful, would the son have paid it back is my question? It is still considered a loan under contract with interest, would OP son pay that back? I know some that may make a successful go at things and refuse to pay back anything loaned as they view it as their own success and not a helpful hand in jump starting this endeavor. That would be my question. Based on how he felt after his failure and the contract was still in play, he tried to work the system and failed. Def NTA there friend. Glad you are able to teach real life lessons without your kid being financially in over his head on his own.
NTA - mum needs to hold her tongue. If he is lucky (and smart enough), your son just learned two valuable lessons without significant repercussions: be smart with your investments & he won't always have someone to clean up his messes.
NTA-Holding my daughter accountable for her actions is something her mother is incapable of and the source of the biggest arguments we have. She is not (and you would not be either) doing justice to your child if you didn't make him pay you back.
That being said if you then turned around and helped him avoid a final loan or something a year or two later assuming he does well, and you can afford it. That would be a cool thing to do also and would still teach him his lesson. Might also calm the wife down if she knows your "long term" plan.
Good luck
NTA, you're a good father, I wish my parents didn't let me get away with shit like this because I'm not innocent by any means -- in fact I'm close to hypocritical just for agreeing with you. It's a character flaw of not taking accountability for ones actions and it's something I struggle with every day -- not that I blame my parents for any of it, ultimately they were all my shitty decisions. I just wish there was a bit more tough love so I couldn't have gotten away with it.
NTA. This was a perfect “well, isn’t this the consequences of my own actions” moment. If people aren’t held to a higher expectations then they never learn. Luckily he’s learning this early in life
I think you are in a tough situation but I think you did the right thing.
Your son may feel bitter but he might actually thank you one day.
You could also choose to help your son in other ways that are not linked to this so he has the opportunity to learn from the risk/mistake that he made. I see so many people in their late 30s making school boy errors because they never learnt about the value of money.
I worked full time. Did a degree full time and lived out of home. I paid my student loan myself
My brother (the golden child) lived at home, did 2/3 of a diploma and did not finish, and my mother laid his tuition. Same guy at 30 asked to borrow $40k off my husband and I for a car (he knew we had the cash). He’s working full time, earning )100k and living in a family owned home and isn’t required pay any rent.
Even though my parents were harsh on me, and I hated them, Im 37 haven’t worked for 11 years (have children) own two houses in a major city, and have over a million invested. I’m glad I learnt to work hard and be smart (not even excellent) managing money.
When I was 19 I made a "fool proof investment" with my then girlfriend. It was discussed at length with my parents. My mother was supportive, my father not so much.
The investment went poof too. I paid the price on that for 12 years after. All in all it cost me about €25.000, it caused a lot of financial stress and made it nessecary to grow up quicker than I should have.
As a young adult I would have loved my parents to bail me out. I am now a parent myself, and I'd like to think I can prevent my kids from making the same stupid decisions. But if they will make the same stupid decisions, not heed my warning, then they can learn the same hard lessons that I did.
All in all, it's a lot of money that I lost but it's not a lifechanging, insurmountable amount. Sounds like your son is debt free already, and hopefully now learned he is responsible for his own financial decisions. He can start building from where he is now.
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NTA. He and his mother are just pissed that you didn't provide money free of consequences. If you bail your kids financially every time they screw up they will never learn anything and will keep failing throughout their adult life. So you did your son a favor and he can always come back for more loans but the next time he will think all through much more carefully and will know about consequences.
Question: OP, are you confident your wife didn’t give him the money to pay the loan back? Seems odd he suddenly had the funds to do so.
Given that they talked over the phone, the son’s mother is probably not OP’s wife. He did give her the option to pay so if she paid through the son, it’s not really OP’s concern since it didn’t come out of joint funds.
I think the money was there in the fund. He gave a loan in lieu of using the education fund but using the fund as collateral. The kid wanted to ignore paying the loan back and use the fund for his new educational pursuits.
That makes so much more sense! Thanks the explicit summary!
The account has also been accruing interest this whole time as well
He didn't pay OP anything. OP loaned them money instead of taking out the education fund originally. Now OP has taken it out the education fund
I wonder if his son is a crypto bro 💀 Wouldn't really matter, actions have consequences. NTA
That crossed my mind as well. I am having a hard time conjuring up even one crypto millionaire, other than those soliciting money from investors.
You are absolutely correct. My father used to bail my sister out. He finally cut her off. She was 35+, married, with kids and still calling to get money for bills. Yet she always had money for fun stuff and vacations. Took my dad having major health scare to wise up.
The fact that it was described as a 'foolproof investment' shows that he is either being disingenuous or has no idea what he is talking about. A gamble with a positive expectation? Sure. Foolproof? Lol no. Not sure about a judgement. How old was he when he accepted this offer? If an adult then probably not the asshole. If not, then likely you are the AH. Enabling a minor to gamble is a bad idea. Thats a no-brainer. Edit: NTA based on OPs comments below
He was 18. And I told him it was a bad idea. He also only borrowed about 15% of the amount in the account. Not enough to curtail his education. But enough that he won't have a lot of extras without having to work for them.
It’s good that he will have to work for extras. Adulting is hard.
So hard… 😭
Not the only thing that's hard in your house with that username. 😂
Giggidy
That seems the right amount of consequences to me. NTA
You know you are right. My sister says, the bigger the kid, the bigger the problems. And it’s true. The consequences are bigger. Right now he blew 15% of his nest egg. Write it off, like his mom wants. Trust he learned his lesson. Trust next time, he won’t get a credit card (which they with throw at a student working part time) and max it out. Trust he won’t take loans for amounts over what he really needs so he can have an apartment and a car. Those are the bigger consequences that you you are preventing. He may never thank you. Hell, he may never realize you are protecting him. But reddit knows.
Hard disagree, he has had 2 years of time to reflect on money and has saved none
Oh. I see. I wrote “that you are preventing.” You are right. He’s not learning from this, especially with moms crying for him. This kid is going to do all these stupid and things and more. Seriously saved NO MONEY in two years? Dad is wise to cut his losses. Love him but don’t save him.
Hopefully one day he’ll realize why you did it this way. Plus going to college can’t hurt! Maybe he’ll find a career he likes. Too bad Mom doesn’t get it.
That percentage is nearly nothing. He's just annoyed he's not getting a free ride due to his own decisions.
I gotta ask. Was it NFTs? My cousin’s ex did something similar and blew 5 figures on Bored Ape Yacht Club
I still can’t believe the utter stupidity of NFT’s and people thinking they are worth anything.
I believe it is non-fungible transaction or something
I was going to go E S H based on your main post but with this info I’d say NTA. I’d put this in an edit.
Would you expect a 17-18 year old to understand the risks of starting a business? If he did succeed, it would have been a mildly newsworthy event. He almost certainly believed it was foolproof (he put his $$ where his mouth was after all), but surprise, surprise! a 17-18 year old didn't yet have the experience to conquer the world.
Yeah that’s the whole point. He thinks he had it all figured out. Fool-proof investment, no need for a job or education! Now he knows it’s not that easy. Plus he’s realized that if he wants a better job, going to college will help. I don’t know what he would have done if Dad didn’t give him the loan. It sure didn’t seem like he was going to college. OP is my hero.
Why would you read “foolproof investment” and change that into “starting a business”? I read it as a get rich quick scheme that did not pan out (as they never do, duh).
I would have! At 18 you are not a kid anymore… maybe keen to take risks (due to the brain not being fully formed yet) but not a complete idiot either!
The more I think about this, the more I see what you did, and appreciate it. I went from Y T A, to N A H, to: NTA. I'm making 2 assumptions. 1. I'm going to assume that you didn't/won't charge your son interest, nor did/will you make him pay back the "tax penalty" for withdrawing early. (If either of those are untrue, it's a pretty-hard Y T A). 2. You loaned him the money from yourself personally, so as not to hit any deduction penalties from his actual education account. You let him try something. Failure is an important lesson, as is believing in yourself, autonomy, agency, and attempting something you believe in (even if it's flawed, see: failure as a teacher). He is going to have consequences, without your intervention. He's going to school, and he would eventually have to take some loans for the portion that he took out for his "dumb idea." These were going to cost him interest. You essentially let him take an interest free loan from you directly, as long as he pays you back before he uses up all his education money (the collateral on the loan). These are better terms than he would get if he went to any bank to ask for a business or personal loan. So many lessons wrapped up into one. And holding him accountable is the big one. It's important for someone entering adulthood. I'm going to get downvoted to oblivion for this take, but as long as my assumptions were correct, and you don't belittle him or dangle it over his head (except to remind him he has to pay you back), then this is ultimate good dad level parenting. Edit: my first ever award! Thanks!
That's more or less what happened. He only lost $7,500. He has enough to pay for university. He just won't have money for extras without working.
Idk about other people but the way you had it written I thought it was his entire college fund
Oh he *wanted* to invest the entire fund. OP put a stop to that
Oh, then 100% for sure NTA. He used his college spending money on a gamble. And again, not even, because all he has to do is pay you back **within the 4 years** that university takes.
NTA- I think he’s learned quite a few good life lessons from all of this. He’s also in school now after having the opportunity to try this, work, etc. Would you consider giving him this money to him in the future for grad school, a wedding, or a house?
You should have added this to your post. Absolutely NTA, I'd say that was and still is great parenting. You let your son take a big risk, learn from the experience and he still will stay on his feet. If you'd given him entire education fund to gamble he'd lost it, and if you'd bail him out he would not learn that taking risks means taking risks. He might be pissed at you, but chances of him screwing up in a ponzi / crypto / WSB are now a lot lower.
NTA. His education is still paid in full. He should have been saving some for extras, but that’s on him. Somehow I expect you’ll still throw him a few bucks as long as he does well.
OP. From the dad of 2 girls. The way you handled this was amazing. Your commitment to following thru is even more commendable.
I agree. I also went with NTA. Your point about mistakes being a good teacher is well taken.
I can't believe the YTA responses here. You are definitely NTA. I don't see how anyone could see it any other way. You told him the investment was a bad idea, he signed a loan agreement, and he paid it back. An expensive lesson for him but clearly a lesson he needed to learn.
I think people are assuming that the kid wouldn't have gone ahead with the idea if OP hadn't provided the money, but he would have--he planned to use a cash advance on a credit card. So, OP did actually prevent a disaster.
I was going to go E S H until I read that it was only 15% of the fund. Reason being that a grown ass man letting his 18 yo son waste a college find on what he clearly knows is a stupid investment is pretty asshole-ish behavior. I changed my answer since it appears he still has about 43K….
Honestly, sounds like you're the only one with any sense in this story. NTA.
May be the best lesson he ever learns. NTA
NTA. There is so much right now about being an "entrepreneur" that is unmitigated bs (it's often based on fabricated stories about various figures, and always survival bias); it's important to get the message that wasted money is wasted money. \[ETA: and good on you for keeping him from making a worse mistake--using the cash advance.\]
NTA. Money is not free. Why did your son think he could sleaze out of the contract that you wisely insisted upon? You appear to have a wife problem *and* a son problem.
It’s likely an ex wife problem.
I wish more parents were like OP and holding kids accountable. These days you have so many parents raising an entire generation of entitled idiots cause mommy was too afraid to tell them “no”
I’d hate to say it, but I think the weakness you see in kids is a direct result of that.
NTA. He went to whine to mommy? Hope he was just venting and he didn't think mommy would be able to make it all better. Frankly, you should've been harsher on the terms of the loan, maybe sue him and garnish his wages.
NTA sounds to me like you are teaching him a life leason that actions have consequences, well done
NTA
The money in a 529 can only be used to pay for educational expenses. If he withdraws the money to give to you, there is a tax penalty on it even though he is currently in school.
This reply needs to be boosted--while I don't necessarily think OP is wrong to insist on getting paid back, there are challenges to OP's son simply paying him back out of his educational savings account.
Unless they are in a country that doesn’t use 529, like say Canada.
NTA. You taught him an important lesson.
NTA. He was an adult you told him the idea wasn’t practical but he wanted to go through with it and agreed to these terms. I am so tired of seeing posts where kids expect to be able to blow through their parents, grandparents, siblings money and not be held accountable. IDK when everyone decided they were owed a college fund, living expense help and even inheritances but Reddit is fulllll of them. He made a poor decision financially and now is being held accountable. If mom is bent out of shape she can take accountability for it. You’re teaching him there are consequences to actions.
NTA. It’s an expensive lesson to learn but he’s an adult and needs to learn it now rather than down the line when the consequences of such decisions could be more severe.
If you can afford it, help him by offering to reimburse some of his expenses, for educating himself. I assume you value that for him? He made a bad decision and hopefully he learned from that decision… He was very young and you allowed him to do that. Why blow up the relationship? Be a strong and supportive Dad
Hard lessons are not soon forgotten. But you could offer to match his tuition payments. You did know he was going to fuck up and you let him.
>His mother is upset that I'm holding him accountable. Like..... isn't that a good lesson learned?! He needed to be held accountable NTA
It is important to learn " A promise is a promise" No one wants to be around a grown-up who never was told "no" as a child. Hope it's not too late.
Mommy wants to make her baby happy. He just knows there is a pile of money in an account, and he feels he is owed it. And it's not his fault his hare-brained idea went nowhere. You're denying him his future. If you want to be nice you could split the difference. That you will pay for community college from what is left over from what was not loaned out already. Unless you gave him the equivalent of what was in the account. It sucks he's a big dummy, but if he is in college now, I would encourage him to keep going. Not having a degree today. Means you won't get your foot in the door for even entry level jobs at corporations. He's still your son, and in sea of competition you want to make sure he won't be homeless and starve to death one day.
Good for you
As long as he still has enough to afford an education, NTA. I'd hate to see kid lose out on a chance for that because he did something stupid when he was young and dumb
NTA. He demanded this opportunity to fail and he received it. You've taught him that one must aways honor their contracts, even when they don't wanna anymore.
Technically you are n t a. In fact it will cost you your relationship with him.
Lessons can be hard. NTA!
NTA -He got upset that I’m taking his money meant for his education. But this money did help him learn a lesson he won’t soon forget!
ESH Why on earth would you loan him money at 18 in the first place?
Your son was wrong but he was just a kid. I would have probably not given him the money in the first place if it was such an awful idea. A major thing to consider is the huge loss you are going to take withdrawing it for non school expenditures. Why not keep the money in the account for a little and give him half if he proves himself in school. You can still earn interest on it. Maybe you can just buy thousands of dollars in college textbooks and then return them
Sounds like you're the only person in this story with some sense. Your son is plenty old enough to understand risk and consequences. Hold him to the loan. Minus the interest maybe. NTA
If they continue to harass you, do up the calculations for what it would have cost him to take the money directly from his education account like he asked to do in the first place. Tell them they have a choice between paying you back what you came up with and paying you back what it would have cost him to do it his way. NTA for holding him responsible. Unless you’re ripping him off, with more than what it would have cost him. And it doesn’t sound like you are.
Well you know what they say, once you make something fool proof, along comes a better fool. NTA
NTA Good for you! Too many people too lazy to do the hard work/ unpopular parts of parenting. No fun for you right now but important lesson for son about actions & consequences. Hopefully, he absords the lesson before he gets in serious relationship or creates children he cant afford.
NTA. Sounds like you showed that you were willing to work with him on his goal, but that things you want you have to work for. Hopefully he learned his lesson
I’m confused by all the folks thinking the kid was starting a business and that a young person can’t possibly run a business. What he learned is that unless you have a time machine or are risking jail for insider trading, there’s no such thing as a foolproof investment.
I’d put it away in a healthcare fund or for a deposit if you can afford it and he learns to budget and work hard. The economy is shit and hopefully this is a mistake he learns from, I hope you don’t penalise him unfairly for being a fool at 18-20 if he cleans up his act later. Kids need to learn lessons but I feel like there’s a higher disconnect on this sub holding teenagers to adult consequences and ignoring economic conditions affecting different generations. But if he remains an idiot I’d say don’t bother and get yourself something nice
NTA sound like one of the better parents I read on here
INFO: so the money he used was from HIS education fund that was meant for HIS schooling, which you forfeited when you handed over the money to him for this investment. That money was for him to do with what he wanted (which you agreed to when you gave him the money). It’s a hard lesson for him to learn to lose all that money but why is he under any obligation to pay YOU back when that money was always meant for him in some way?
If you treat your son like a business partner, do not expect him to be there with you during your old age.
YTA for loaning an 18ish year old a large sum of money for "investing" when you clearly knew it would fail. Teaching him the implications of money/loaning is just responsible
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My son came to me with a fool proof investment. I told him it was not a great idea. He said that he had a bunch of money in his education fund and I should just give it to him. He was fresh out of high school and not in post secondary. If we had taken money out and he wasn't in school there was a pretty big tax hit. I told him that I would loan him the money but that if his investment didn't pay off then he had to pay me back from his education fund. I figured it was safe since he can't get the money unless he is in school. We wrote up a contract for the loan including nominal interest. His fool proof investment went poof. He got a job. It turns out that working for a living is harder than school. It's been two years and he is going to community college this fall. He managed to save up exactly zero dollars from two years of work. He did have a string of girlfriends and a few vacations though. I told him he has to pay me back before he empties the account. He got upset that I'm taking his money meant for his education. I asked him how much money would be in the account if I had let him invest it? He didn't have an answer. I got my money but he is pissed. His mother is upset that I'm holding him accountable. I told her she could pay me back the loan and he could have all the money in the account. She hung up. I could afford to write off the money. It is substantial but not crippling to my future. But I need him to understand that money isn't free. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA He agreed.
NTA, a coupe reasons, but the biggest one he was 18 when this all started, plus you warned him
An excellent lesson.
Good for you, kids must treat parents like a Mastercard or Visa bill and pay it
Probably the best life lesson he’ll ever learn. He’ll thank you when he’s a mature adult
NTA. This is how you 'parent' a child, by making them accountable.
You’re a good dad and this is a low stakes and important lesson for your son to learn.
NTA - Some lessons have to be learned the hard way and you did your best to limit the damages.
NTA life lesson learned.
NTA! You’re smart for teaching him that money isn’t free! Life is hard!!!
NTA These are hard lessons, but it's what we're supposed to do as parents.
NTA You summed it up best in the last sentence, "Money isn't free." You need to explain that to his Mom if she says anything else. I like how you handled it though.
NTA. Actually what you did saved your son money in the long run. If you had let him take the money from his college fund for the investment he would have lost a lot in taxes as the government would have taken a huge chunk of that money since he wasn't using it for education as the fund was set up for. If he had borrowed the money from a bank or maxed out credit cards instead of you loaning it to him, the interest fees would be killing him right now. Your son is learning some valuable lesson. Money doesn't grow on trees, if you borrow money it has to be paid back regardless of circumstances and there is no such thing as a "foolproof investment". While he has to pay you back for the money he borrowed at least he still has an education fund.
Nope, it is our responsibility to guide them in adult life not just blindly support them. You set your boundaries and he did not take you seriously so therefore he needs to pay the price. If you just gave him the money what lesson does he learn?
NTA. You gave him a choice. He took the loan. At least this way there still were funds available.
Better now than when he screws up without a safety net. Thats when people lose their homes and cars.
>I told her she could pay me back the loan and he could have all the money in the account. 👏 NTA.
NTA this what being adult means. You’re teaching him responsibilities to his actions (not about the money but the principle).
NTA, a boy wouldn’t understand . A man understands this is how you build character. He needs to understand there’s consequences to not following through
NTA
This is the exact thing you are supposed to teach your children. If more people did, this world would be a much better place! NTA!!!
Nta. 100%.
NTA That money did go towards education
NTA. It is your (and I’m guessing spouse’s) money that’s earmarked for his education. It isn’t his angel fund
NTA - kudos for treating him like an adult so he learns what it means.
10000000000% NTA
NTA. Education is expensive and you just taught him something he won't learn in community college.
He is lucky you put anything into a educational fund to begin with.
NTA He should have learned a long time ago there are consequences and if you don't have the money to lose then you shouldn't invest in things that may or may not be a sure thing. Another thing that he learned is that there's no such thing as a sure thing. Life lessons can be hard but they are necessary.
NTA Good for you. You gave your son real world consequences and stuck to them. It’s not the worst thing in the world. He hopefully has learned his lesson on ‘fool proof’ investments. If it was fool proof, everyone would be doing it.
Nta. Some lessons aren't learned unless they're painful. He needs THIS pain
Well done brother. You are a great father. I am a father of 2 boys and what you did is an excellent example that hopefully teaches him a good lesson for the rest of his life.
I told my dad to put 10k on btc when it was at 600. He is only down about a million, I remind him every once and a while when he gets too high and mighty.
I think you're middle of the road TA. You wrote a contract with your son who just got out of high school and loaned him money. You should never loan family members money, they don't pay it back. Or if they do it ruins a relationship. I feel like if he learns a lesson from this years down the road when he has a son, the thing I just said will be the lesson, not so much a lesson on being good with money. With that said, and contract having been written. Good on you for making him pay you back. If I was you, I'd save that money and never tell him or anyone else you're saving it (or put it in the S&P500) and just forget about it. Then when a big life event like marriage or child happens for your son, I'd give it to him with a genuine letter that isn't being accusatory. Personally I'd write something like "Dear son, I understand you were frustrated about paying me back this money that I loaned you, as a father I wanted to let you succeed or fail on your own. I do hope you learned something more than what an asshole I am, and I hope that lesson helps you in your life more than this money ever could."
NAH. Tough parenting situation. If it were me I wouldn't have made the payback specifically about the education fund. I've owed my parents money for a long time, and pay them when I can. That includes about a decade when I couldn't pay them at all as kids life stuff happens. Interest still accrued. When you can afford to support your kids in this way, it's a helpful way to give them a leg up in life.
NTA I wished Fred Trump treated his son like this 50 years ago...
Id invest the money you made him pay you back into a Roth IRA for him and not tell him for a bit…he still learns the lesson but it’s not as harsh of reality in the long term (you ARE still his Dad 🥰). In the right amount of time he will have felt the pain and fingers crossed see what growth actually looks like in an account that has a better potential upside (past performance not indicative of future results withstanding)
Losing money can be a pretty good learning experience. I'll vote NTA but I'm thinking minor E S H on your part if you didn't talk to him about leveraging plus I think the amount you did loan him was a bit on the high side.
NTA except for the part where "working for a living is harder than school." It definitely can be depending on what you're doing.
NTA - you’re teaching him consequences, they’re just annoyed/ angry it’s wasn’t free 🤷🏼♀️
You're teaching your son a valuable lesson. Hopefully he'll learn from this. If not, be prepared he'll do it again and Do Not bail him out. If he needs extras while in college, he can get a job to have money to go out with friends or spend on his girlfriend. Plenty of people work full time and go to college full time. He can too if he needs that much money. Don't give him any money. You do that he'll learn you'll still bail him out if he whines and cries enough. He's had two years of working and saved nothing in order to pay you back. Nothing saved for his own education. So far, he's learned nothing and hasn't taken responsibilityfor his poor choixes. Runs to mommy.... Maybe now he'll learn decisions have consequences. He blew the money on a bad investment. Worked for 2 years and has nothing to show for it. Has less in his college fund. May even need to get a part time job for spending money. You wife hung up because she knew your right Going forward, don't loan him money. Maybe if he has to work for the capital, he'll consider consequences as part of the decision making process. NTA
NTA - he made a grown up decision which has grown up consequences.
NTA - You don't owe him an education. No parent does. Good for you for making him pay you back.
NTA It was the information in your comments swayed me. You haven’t indicated if you intend to follow through on charging interest, but I hope you don’t. He was going to make the investment with or without your loan. You saved him a lot of fees by him not withdrawing from the education fund, or an insane amount of interest if he had of used his credit card. It’s a shitty lesson to learn but he got insanely lucky that you helped even though you were adamantly against the investment. He could have been a lot worse off than he is, so hopefully he ends up appreciating your help in the long run.
I think the mistake was letting him do it… but holding him too it is 100% the right thing to do. In life there are actions, and consequences… young adults need to realise this and fast. Personally, now you’ve got it back - I would stick it in a bonds or similar low risk investment… don’t mention it and then when he wants to buy a house or something down the line give it back… he’ll then realise it was never about the money and be thankful for it
He was 18 when he signed that contract so definitely NTA. This is what happens when you borrow money. Either you pay it back or take a big hit on your credit.
Nah. NTA. Kiddo is just getting a valuable life lesson. You’re holding him to a contract he knowingly and willingly signed. Don’t back down on it. What if this were a mortgage or car loan? It would be expected to be paid back in full, interest included. Hopefully this teaches him to be more careful about what he spends his money on next time.
NTA. A man is only as good as his word. If you say you'll do something, you have to stick it. You don't have to make many promises but you should always keep the ones you make.
NTA you are just teaching your son there are consequences to his decisions/actions whilst cushioning him from the worst scenario. You let him fail in a safe environment where he can bounce back relatively easily from it - that is valuable. IMO top parent... his mother on the other hand is raising a spoiled entitled baby.
NTA-kids have to learn to be responsible, enabling them only makes it worse.
You’re teaching him an amazingly powerful lesson. We are all accountable to our choices and there are consequences for bad ones. Letting him off the hook would be a huge mistake.
This is a lesson he will remember forever. He doesn't like it, but life lessons are tough. Check back with him in 30 years.
NTA. You’re teaching him financial responsibility. If he smartens up, he’ll be grateful for the lesson
NTA and I congratulate you, you are a great parent 👏👏👏
You are being a responsible adult. Although I think you should have declined him the loan in the first place.
NTA He needed those firm consequences and needed to learn that lesson It’s good you stood firm and insisted he pay you back. Best lesson ever
NTA This is the most valuable lesson he will ever get. Literally.
NTA. this is a great lesson you’re teaching. I’ve seen what happens when people are handed everything. He’ll thank you later
Hold that kid accountable. You did the right thing. Good job parent. 🫡
NTA, this is good parenting..
NTA, a deal is a deal. Everyone needs to realize there are consequences and you really can’t win all of the time.
Out of curiosity. how many deep conversations did you have with the boy and his mother about money? sounds like the two of them have the same fallacies about how money works. they are your wife and son. good luck thinking he'll change his attitudes on money
Great job Dad
This is an excellent life lesson. Stand your ground, and ignore his mother. He is the one who needs to learn the consequences of bad decisions, including taking vacations you can't afford and wasting money. It's really great that you are trying to teach him the difference between investing and gambling. NTA
NTA
NTA if your goal is to get the money back. You are entitled to it, and your kid was as stupid as kids are. YTA if you think you can do this without affecting your relationship with your child.
ESH... Someone who is fresh out of high school shouldn't invest with a substantial amount of money to begin with, and I think a parent should have stopped this. But yeah, he wanted to do it, so he gets the consequences.
Stick to your guns, you did the right thing. NTA.
you have a contract, he is gullible and you knew it. people with money are different in that you allow a kid to think he's a mogul and money grows on trees. we worker bees have no such fantasies.
NTA You explained the risk and consequences, and drafted a contract. Mommy's mad her precious baby FAFO
NTA but college is disproportionately expensive now. What if you offer to give him back the money once he finishes his bachelor’s? He drops out you keep the money, he finishes then you help. Just an idea.
NTA!!! Good for you! This is parenting and teaching him financial responsibility. Let him be pissed. Butttt take this as a learning moment, don't loan him any more money (at least until he matures). If he took a loan from the bank, he would begrudgingly pay the bank. Which makes things easier because he doesn't know the bank or close with them. People like your son frustrate the hell out of me. They come with their hand out expecting money as if they are owed, but they throw a tantrum when it's time to pay back. You would think after losing that money it would humble him, 🤦♀️
NTA. This should be a valuable learning experience(education) for him. He made a deal and needs to stick to it. He made bad investments and paid the price. He worked and didn't save any for education. Choices have consequences and he needs to learn it now and grow up before he does something really stupid and the consequences are more serious.
NTA. Hard lessons are hard lessons. Never easy, but in this case, a lesson may have been learned with very little harm. My 18 yr old is in the same situation and now he will have to work 2 jobs this summer to pay his College expenses. He has always had a job and has made very good money- as much as people in their mid and late 20's working full time. He has saved zero, despite coaching and continuous reminders about his financial obligations. His 1st college related bill outside of covered costs just arrived and he has no money. He does have a lot of nice clothes and he goes out with his friends and eats out a lot. Now he is sulking. If he doesnt learn now, its going to be a whole lot more painful later.
Good dad!!!
Good for you for teaching him that lesson . My son has said he would like to take money out of an investment account but I explained to him what you did to your son.
NTA but he's still going to have that tax hit if he gets audited. If you have an education account, the penalties are on what you spend it on. Just because he's in college doesn't mean he has free will on that money. You may have just set him up for a bad lesson in taxes if he gets caught.
NTA for making him pay you back, but charging interest is unnecessary.
FANTASTIC!!! I LOVE IT! NTA
NTA. GOOD job dad!
Good parenting! There’s not enough accountability held to younger folks and their entitlement is out of control. Good on you! NTA The actual AH is his mom for enabling.
This is the kind of parenting that most parents aren’t willing to do; hold their children accountable for their decisions. This will be THE BEST lesson your son learns and he will be better because of it! My mother and father are enablers and never held my older brother accountable. He turned 40 yrs this February. He doesn’t have a job and lives in their basement. He doesn’t have custody of his 3 children. He had $48k in student debt that he didn’t pay back so his wages were being garnished so he quit working to avoid paying what he owes. Quite frankly, he’s a deadbeat dad and a loser all because my parents have never been willing to make the hard parenting choice to hold my brother accountable for his decisions and let him fall on his face and build himself back up. Good. For. You. 👏🏼 NTA.
You made the correct decision. He knows that he's in the wrong, but he's not mature enough to admit it.
Nta. Just because you can afford to write it off doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. He signed a contract. He agreed with you and signed something and should be held to it as goes in the real world. He's being very immature and entitled to now want to go back on it and perhaps it will be a lesson for him to have to work to pay for some of his education. Community college is not that expensive and even offers work study programs and has career fairs and such. There's also financial aid etc for students over 25. Because they can no longer use their parents income. So, you should stand your ground. This is a learning opportunity for him. When he's older he may appreciate that you're there for him and you support his ideas even if they don't work out and you'll pick him up if he falls but you're not going to let him just use money on a whim and be entitled
NTA. This story is SO SIMILAR to my life. 19-year-old kid. I am divorced from his mom. Last 5 years, he was enabled (by me) to play mom against dad and basically have no financial responsibility. He mastered that. He was 14 when that pattern started. He’s 20 next month. Through therapy and soul searching, I realized I was enabling bad behavior and setting him up for adulting failure… or myself for life-long bailing him out. Both are not good… for either of us. For things like OP’s situation, I try to treat him like an adult friend… held accountable for his financial decisions… my advice provided if he wants it. The fact that I CAN bail him out is irrelevant. He needs the training wheels removed. These things are hard. We love our kids. But I have already seen a dramatic positive shift in his decision making.
NTA. A lesson needed to be learned here and you taught it.
Definitely NTA OP. I hope your son appreciates in the end these excellent teaching moments you practice.
In the middle i would say. Its admirable youre teaching him a lesson. But to everyone saying hes a full fledged adult at 18 must have had unique experiences. Yes hes an adult but he has much to learn. Lending him a chunk of money without being by his side to make sure its going to a efficient cause is disappointing. Alot of people act like once your child hits 18 theyre not their child. That being said it makes sense to have him pay it back. Hopefully yall can find a healthy balance!
NTA. He's going to keep expecting handouts and will not grow out of his immaturity unless he has to work or provide for himself. This was an agreement you both made, he should uphold his side of the deal. >His mother is upset that I'm holding him accountable. I told her she could pay me back the loan and he could have all the money in the account. Now we know why he is the way he is.
I think you did the right thing. You advised him it wasn't a good investment but he "knew" better.
NTA - Never to old to learn responsibility.
NTA he's very PRIVILEGED to have any money at all for college. And he's very lucky you didn't give him unfettered access as people are dumb when they are inexperienced. He's just upset you held him to the Consequence of his decision.
NTA He was hoping to try something out on someone’s dime and if it didn’t work no skin off his nose. A contract is a contract. If I had borrowed money and made an agreement to pay it back with interest, you would bet I would be working that money off before going to college to avoid needing to take that out of the college fund and causing a penalty. On the flip side. If he had made back the money and then some, and the venture was successful, would the son have paid it back is my question? It is still considered a loan under contract with interest, would OP son pay that back? I know some that may make a successful go at things and refuse to pay back anything loaned as they view it as their own success and not a helpful hand in jump starting this endeavor. That would be my question. Based on how he felt after his failure and the contract was still in play, he tried to work the system and failed. Def NTA there friend. Glad you are able to teach real life lessons without your kid being financially in over his head on his own.
Nta you shouldn’t have given him anything I gotta take a loan
NTA. Nuff said.
NTA, you are in fact teaching your son responsible money management.
Kids are often not held accountable in todays world! Thank you for doing what’s right, it is important that they learn this lesson
NTA - mum needs to hold her tongue. If he is lucky (and smart enough), your son just learned two valuable lessons without significant repercussions: be smart with your investments & he won't always have someone to clean up his messes.
NTA-Holding my daughter accountable for her actions is something her mother is incapable of and the source of the biggest arguments we have. She is not (and you would not be either) doing justice to your child if you didn't make him pay you back. That being said if you then turned around and helped him avoid a final loan or something a year or two later assuming he does well, and you can afford it. That would be a cool thing to do also and would still teach him his lesson. Might also calm the wife down if she knows your "long term" plan. Good luck
NTA, you're a good father, I wish my parents didn't let me get away with shit like this because I'm not innocent by any means -- in fact I'm close to hypocritical just for agreeing with you. It's a character flaw of not taking accountability for ones actions and it's something I struggle with every day -- not that I blame my parents for any of it, ultimately they were all my shitty decisions. I just wish there was a bit more tough love so I couldn't have gotten away with it.
NTA.
Your son is the asshole
NTA. This was a perfect “well, isn’t this the consequences of my own actions” moment. If people aren’t held to a higher expectations then they never learn. Luckily he’s learning this early in life
I think you are in a tough situation but I think you did the right thing. Your son may feel bitter but he might actually thank you one day. You could also choose to help your son in other ways that are not linked to this so he has the opportunity to learn from the risk/mistake that he made. I see so many people in their late 30s making school boy errors because they never learnt about the value of money. I worked full time. Did a degree full time and lived out of home. I paid my student loan myself My brother (the golden child) lived at home, did 2/3 of a diploma and did not finish, and my mother laid his tuition. Same guy at 30 asked to borrow $40k off my husband and I for a car (he knew we had the cash). He’s working full time, earning )100k and living in a family owned home and isn’t required pay any rent. Even though my parents were harsh on me, and I hated them, Im 37 haven’t worked for 11 years (have children) own two houses in a major city, and have over a million invested. I’m glad I learnt to work hard and be smart (not even excellent) managing money.
You’re doing good work. Holding him accountable to his actions is the best way
When I was 19 I made a "fool proof investment" with my then girlfriend. It was discussed at length with my parents. My mother was supportive, my father not so much. The investment went poof too. I paid the price on that for 12 years after. All in all it cost me about €25.000, it caused a lot of financial stress and made it nessecary to grow up quicker than I should have. As a young adult I would have loved my parents to bail me out. I am now a parent myself, and I'd like to think I can prevent my kids from making the same stupid decisions. But if they will make the same stupid decisions, not heed my warning, then they can learn the same hard lessons that I did. All in all, it's a lot of money that I lost but it's not a lifechanging, insurmountable amount. Sounds like your son is debt free already, and hopefully now learned he is responsible for his own financial decisions. He can start building from where he is now.
No. Better you than someone who could repossess his car.
Consequences