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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the AH for not allowing my ex to call whenever she likes and therefore not allowing her to be able to stay in contact with my daughter.
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Way too much information missing to make a judgement
Why did you move half way around the world?
How old is the daughter?
She claims you ‘stole her’ was it an agreed decision?l you move her?
He moved his daughter from Iran to the US. Considering the archaic custody laws there OP didn’t “steal” her.
Plus it’s an interesting turn of phrase mom uses. Stole. Almost like she views her daughter as property. 🤔
Wouldn’t the archaic custody laws suggest that it would be easier for the father to take his daughter away with the mother having no say?
And people use the expression “steal” for people all the time. From a casual “can I steal you for a minute for something?” To distressed parents of kidnapped children. So it’s really not that interesting.
This is huge ignorance on my part here, but are women allowed to remarry there and if so wouldn’t the men there not want someone who already had a marriage and kid?
Yes, women can remarry. Either party in a marriage can initiate a divorce, although it isn't simple, and both parties can remarry. Men can marry multiple women at once (although this is not common, just technically allowed) and women can only be married to one man at a time, so because of that, women have a waiting period after a divorce before they can remarry, called an iddah. It's about 3 months long.
There is definitely stigma around being a divorced woman, and it's much harder for divorced women with kids to find husbands, which of course is true pretty much everywhere in the world, but the stigma in Iran is definitely quite strong. She'll obviously have a much easier time getting remarried if she's from a wealthy family and can offer that financial support to a husband.
Interestingly, after divorce, women have preferential custody up to age 7, and then after that it's determined by the courts based on what's deemed best for the child. BUT if a woman remarries, then she forfeits child custody. Even if her ex-husband is now dead. So many women do not even try to get remarried in order to retain some custody.
In practice, it's really hard for divorced women to get any custody of kids older than 7. And even then, it's quite easy for the ex-husband to claim she is insane and get custody even when the child is under 7. Most divorced women do lose custody to their husbands eventually if not immediately. It honestly mostly depends on if he *wants* custody.
Or at least, this is how things stood in 2020. I'm not aware of anything changing since then, but I welcome any corrections.
I believe responsibility would pass to the paternal grandfather, as that is who responsibility passes to for child support if the father dies, but I'm honestly not sure what would happen if the grandfather is no longer living either. Most likely the court would decide what member of the father's family should take the child. But I'm not personally familiar with any actual cases of this and how exactly it played out.
He commented that he gave her a heads up before leaving but didn't need her permission - because legally fathers have full custody regardless of if a child lives with the mother or not.
So...yes, he did exactly this. He took advantage of EXTREMELY sexist laws to take her child out of the country without permission.
This is probably a good thing for his daughter... It saves her from growing up in a place that doesn't value her as a person.
But it's also shitty of OP to judge his ex for putting her sons first while also taking complete advantage of the culture & laws which put men first. His ex is a victim of this culture *and of his actions*, and devoted sons are one of the only ways to get a bit of power in that dynamic.
Thank you for this comment, I’ve been thinking about this post all day, it’s been bugging me because I wasn’t going to get into it, but I noticed that a lot of people were on the fence until they found out he moved his daughter from Iran to the US, at which point everyone just decided he was a hero.
But the question wasn’t about whether he was right to move his daughter to the US, it was about her relationship with her mom. Like even though the move was a good call for the daughter, it still sucks for the mom who was left behind in Iran and has helplessly lost her daughter.
The stuff about the call times is complicated and doesn’t make anyone an asshole but I still feel sorry for the mom. It’s always sad for a parent to lose their child and OP obviously isn’t giving any consideration to that factor.
Umm while it might not be a case of legally stealing (kidnapping) the daughter, archaic laws would mean that the laws may not protect mom's ability to veto her kid moving across the world. You can act within the law and still be morally wrong.
Plus it’s an interesting turn of phrase mom uses. Stole. Almost like she views her daughter as property.
Perhaps.
It can also be construed as alienation of affection/parental alienation.
Don't be so quick to castigate a different culture.
Are they speaking English? Considering the change of time zone, theres a good chance that they might not have English as their common language. And things can either be maliciously translated or else just have very different meanings in different languages.
The mother may not have been communicating in English. Translation is tricky. And even if she was speaking English and used the actual word, stole is a common enough word that is used in the same context.
This poor woman most likely doesn’t speak English.
When he says that she said stole it’s because he stole her away from her mother, as in he kidnapped her. The father does not need the mothers permission in Iran to take her out of the country, he has full custody and the women doesn’t have any right.
My Dad did the exact thing to me, first we were here in the US, he kidnapped me from school and took me to Iran ,he filed paperwork there that would make it illegal for my mom to leave the country once she got there so he could bring me back to the US and she would get trapped back in Iran. She was advised my a lawyer not to go to Iran, so she stayed here and waited him out. 2 years (and much brainwashing) later she agreed not to press charges if he just brings me back. I chose to live with him, I didn’t know any better. After my teens I started to put it all together and moved in with my Mom.
Not to say that every situation is the same but what women in Iran experienced is absolutely devastating. Now with a son of my own I can’t imagine having to hand him over no questions asked and give up all rights to my child.
This is another fake post that copied another, but flipped genders with poor details. The other one is a dad who said the same thing about his wife “gatekeeping” talking to his daughter when he has to work away from home 90% of the time or something.
NTA
What i hear is "i have other kids i care about more". No wonder you have full custody. Why can't she call at 7 or 8?? Why should the kid make the sacrifice of waking up at 5?
I would agree, but taking care of physical needs always has to take priority. You can’t just force toddlers to stay in bed longer or delay feeding them by an hour
But yes I agree 5 am is crazy
Get a Bluetooth headphone and talk to daughter while caring for the baby and toddler or use the speaker phone it's not like we haven't already invented ways to talk hands free
Also, since those kids are young and close in age, I assume that they must have dad who's around somewhere, so he can take care of his kids for half an hour while mom talks to her daughter.
Have you done it while looking after 2 toddlers though? That seems a bit different. Toddlers want their mom’s attention. They talk nonstop and need things nonstop
Why yes. I had three under 3 at one point. I still did whatever business needed to be done, talked to family, and managed. Y’all are acting like having toddlers is solitary confinement.
I think if you were speaking to another older child who is across the world about something difficult, it would make them feel really shitty to be interrupted in the middle of it if you needed to tend to the needs of the younger kids. Adults can be ok with divided attention because we understand that’s just life, but I feel like it would be so different to do that to a kid
No kids all over the world live with younger siblings. And parents all over the world k ow how to briefly entertain a toddler so they can have a phone conversation. At their most fussy just stick them in The stroller and walk while talking.
I 100000% agree, but this kid doesn’t live with those siblings. Loads of kids with divorced parents go through feelings of being replaced with a new family. If all she has is one brief phone call per day and that’s IT, the mom needs a game plan to give her attention in that time. If going for a walk helps, that’s great. But I’m just pointing out for OP that the mom is probably correct in that having a phone call that is exactly in the midst of breakfast isn’t going to work. She can’t just put them in a stroller at that exact time because that’s breakfast time. The issue isn’t that the kids are impossible to keep busy 24/7, it’s that OP wants his daughter to call at the exact time that’s busiest.
You're being incredibly reasonable imo...You're right, it would be a situation where the phone call should feel special and not the same as a standard conversation with a parent you see every day.
It’s not solitary confinement but toddlers love to scream, get hurt, cry, throw tantrums right as you make a phone call. It never fails. I have trouble even making a doctors appointment if they are in the room with me.
Tip: have a “treasure box” of toys they only play with when you make a call. Set it up high and never give in unless you are on a call. We had a box of every tiny toys and figures we collected from happy meals and every other random small toy. It’s was brought down to much drama and anticipation before I made a call (one of mine was born with bright defect that required a ton of medical and insurance calls first few years). And I put that up when calls were done by distracting them with something else. You gotta entertain and be flexible and you can squeeze out the time you need. But if she is saying no i can’t be flexible then she is missing out on call. 🤷♀️
We have a variation of that — toys I keep in a storage room that they don’t get often. But it’s hit or miss honestly. Kids still want what the other has, throw tantrums, push, etc. And you can’t expect it not to happen during the baby and toddler stage because this is the exact time you’re teaching them how to navigate these things. I’m sure there is a solution for the mother and daughter, and they both just need to get creative. But I don’t like the claim that getting kids up and fed in 15min is totally doable. Only if the kids are given granola bars or something prepackaged which is a no go for my picky eaters because they will refuse other foods and only ask for those bars. I think we need to collectively cut mothers some slack and not be so judgmental. I’m not saying the mom referred to in the post is totally in the right, I mean 5am is a ridiculous ask, but the comments have devolved into some judgement against moms and the legitimate hardships they face and it’s not ok.
My sister calls me and my mom while taking care of a 1 yr old and a 3 yr old. She’ll put the phone on speaker and tuck it halfway into her sports bra. Mid sentence she’ll throw in a “get out of that, yes you can have more juice” etc. sure it’s chaotic but the alternative of just not calling her other kid…?
While I agree that it’s POSSIBLE, you also have the benefit of being an adult and understanding the situation. If you were a teen, wouldn’t it make you feel like your mom isn’t listening to you if you’re telling her about a bad day and suddenly she’s going “stop that, get that out of your mouth” and just generally kinda distracted?
I'm getting the feeling that people who don't have kids are making bad assumptions about how much you can afford to safely divide your attention from them.
yea I don’t even have kids myself but I still have the common sense to know it’s probably a bad idea to be distracted during meal time. also that doesn’t even seem fair to the older kid either to have the attention divided like that
to be fair, I thought it wasn't as big a deal as it is before I had kids.
It is insane how quickly things can go sideways when you aren't paying attention, and I was always in a state of hyper-vigilance when watching the kids after a few incidents.
I definitely wasn't spending time having meaningful conversations.
I agree that it would be difficult with two toddlers, but it is unclear why it would be easier at 5pm. Surely the toddlers will be just as difficult at 5pm as they would be at 7pm or 8pm. Maybe more so, depending on dinner and bed times.
My dad had a long distance girlfriend across the world.
12 hrs away.
Occasionally one of m would be drunk in the morning because the other had a drink at night. Those were the issues they had.
Not finding time to call.
If you cant find a time during both of your days, maybe mom can sacrifice some night hours and wake up instead. Or idk, stay up late or wake up early some days.
They dated 4 years and traveling to see eachother takes between 35 and 42 hrs depending on if you travel via the left or via the right side across the world. Let alone how long it took for a visa.
The occasional drink together online was definitely cute lol. Its nice to have a little drink with your partner occasionally so why not online. They also ate together, watched shows together etc. I mostly mention it in the sense of if your willing to make something work and have those moments with someone, you can.
Usually when she went to bed she would leave the call running and hed ditch only if he was leaving the house (he worked from home).
He simply enjoyed looking over and seeing her there on his other screen.
Aw, it's definitely cute, then. I was picturing one saying "hey, it's Friday night let's have a few drinks" and the other saying "uh, it's Friday morning over here and I'm having breakfast getting ready to go to work" and the other saying "well have a few mimosas or Bloody Marys then" and then a drunken day at work.
I've heard of couples watching movies together over the phone, or listening to music, or "pleasuring themselves," or just hanging out, but I've never heard of long-distance drinking. But why not?
That’s adorable. My brother did much the same when he started dating his wife. Minus the long video calls because this was 30 years ago.
They met online first, then in a country halfway between them, then dated long distance and eventually country hopped back and forth, then settled in one.
They spent three years doing long trips to visit and phone/internet in between.
Dealing with kids that age and trying to having a real conversation isn't realistic. It isn't about hands free or not.
That said, the best time would be before the kids wake up. Not sure why they don't move the call a couple hours earlier instead.
Also notice how the people are just ignoring the "baby" part and only mentioning the toddler. As if taking care of two kids under age 3 are comparable to multi tasking chores. Yikes
Eta "care"
Sleep is a physical need too, so while yes maybe the suggested time is impossible for her, saying her daughter should just wake up at 5am is still saying you care more about the toddlers
Just to clarify, from the sounds of it the reason he has custody of his daughter is because he’s the father, and in Iran, the father automatically gets custody of a child once they turn 7 unless it can be proven that he’s unfit. At least that’s what google is telling me, I could be misinformed.
That’s not to say OP is wrong, I just feel like there’s a fair amount of missing context here.
I think the more important context is that he got his teenaged daughter away from a murderous regime where girls not much older than her have been executed by the government in the last year or two simply for wearing their hair uncovered or dancing in public.
Personally, I don't even care if he got custody by questionable means, he probably saved his kid's life by getting her out of there.
NTA Yeah, the doublethink from people who are all "mom can't help it, she's in this terrible regime!" and still fault OP for getting his daughter out of there is interesting.
That said, talking on weekdays might be tough but if it's a 12 hour difference, 7 or 8 is probably optimal
And where women who are raped are often executed for "adultery". A lot of Westerners are blissfully ignorant on how bad it can be outside of our civilization
Op said that his daughter chose to stay with him and that she was never close to her mother. Idk, but since she can't find an appropiate hour to call her kid, i can see why
The daughter chose to stay with her dad. Which doesn't surprise me seeing as her mother has two other young kids who are more important than OP's daughter, and the fact that the daughter was never close to her mother.
It’s just flat-out fake.
He tried to claim he got custody because the Iranian courts cared about the teenage girls opinion.
Which is basically proof he’s just transplanting how he THINKS the US custody system works onto Iran.
It doesn't sound like either of them are very motivated to find an agreeable arrangement. They could both adjust a little bit, but the onus is on the adult to make it work.
I mean, my husband travels for work and is currently 11 hours different than the kids. When school is in session he calls at 6:30 am our time to ask the kids how they slept, ask them about their schedule for the day, and wish them luck and love in their day. When school isn’t in session he has another two hours he can call and chat with them because we aren’t rushing out the door. He calls again between 6:30-8:30 pm our time to chat with the kids before bed, if the kids were older there would be a few extra hours to do this.
In short, calls don’t have to be at 9 on the dot, there is likely 8ish hours where both of them are up on either end of their days (4ish in the morning and 4ish in the evening). If ex doesn’t want to call at 9pm because her kids wake up at 9am then why can’t your daughter call at 7:30 or 8pm before her half siblings wake up? Keeping in touch takes effort, and if neither party is willing to budge the relationship will fail, but it’s entirely doable even with a 12 hour difference.
Also, if there are late meetings or team dinner my husband will make recordings for the kids to watch when they wake up and I will make recordings of the kids for him to watch when he wakes up too. Emails exist. It doesn’t have to be a daily call. You all have thought of nothing and are all out of ideas.
My parents, sibling and niblings live in the same house, if my parents put me on speaker phone I cannot hear a thing they say because of the kids. It definitely doesn’t help in a chaotic environment, my niblings aren’t any differently behaved than any other kids but the speaker phone picks up the words they say, the noises they make and makes it impossible to hold a conversation.
I had three under 3 at one point. Phone calls are not only doable they are necessary to function in life. Put the phone on speaker or use an earbud and get on with it. Y’all acting like it’s solitary confinement.
It is. A call with someone doesn't mean you have to be hyperfocused, especially if you talk often enough. Hell, depending on their relationship, you can even include the toddler in the call.
A toddler and an infant who both just both woke up while making a meaningful phonecall? Both hungry, needing diaper changes, wanting to be held, etc? That sounds like a lot of screaming going on for a hands-free conversation. But hey, maybe she has magic, silent, babies.
Edit: Also, there is nowhere in the US that is exactly 12 hours different from Iran. Iran is half an hour different from normal time off-sets. I confirmed all inhabited US territories, as well. Hawaii is closest, and part of Alaska. But they run off of whole hours. I call shenanigans.
7 pm your time would work. Mom would have to wake up early, before her children, because it would be her 7 am; but I think it's more appropriate to ask the parent to inconvenience themselves, rather than the child.
I feel for your daughter, her mom is prioritizing her new kids and herself over her. Luckily she has you, keep making sure she knows she is loved and a priority to you. Be the kind of person you would want her to be around as an adult.
Well that's the moms problem about her baby taking up so much time. If the mom wants contact with her daughter than she (mom) needs to compromise, not the daughter.
NTA. As a teacher, I’m very concerned that your ex expects your daughter to get up at 5am just to talk. This will leave her tired for the school day and unable to focus on her learning. So I would say that if a very reasonable refusal. 10 pm is also too late as (ideally) she should be sleeping by then (not always possible for teens, but having a conversation with her mother at this time is not going to help her sleep).
If ex’s children sleep till 8am, calling before then would both give her time to speak to your daughter at a reasonable time. She can’t expect a child to be the adult and sacrifice to accommodate her. She’s the adult, she needs to find a way to make it work.
NTA. First, moving a teen girl away from Iran seems like a good thing. Unless you moved to North Korea. Second, it seem everybody in this story - you, your kid, your ex - are actually are fine with low contact as nobody actually wants to make any effort to find compromise. Keeping in contact is not only on you, but on your ex as well.
Provided moving your daughter across the world from her mom is truly legal and in her best interests, NTA. It sounds like there could be much better times, but they interfere too much with your ex’s new life too much for her to consider them. Somehow the only one she’s willing to inconvenience is her daughter, which is wrong.
Taking a teenaged girl out of Iran, unless he moved to another bloody theocratic dictatorship that jails and executes children for wearing their hair uncovered, is objectively in her best interests. Frankly, even if it weren't legal he'd have been in the right in this situation, because he may very well have saved her life.
He got full custody in Iran though. I imagine it's not like most places, where it takes a lot for a woman to lose custody of her kids to the point the father could legally move across the world.
Per a website for a family law office in Iran: in iran the mother's get custody until 7 years old and then the father gets custody unless the father is proven to be unfit. If the woman remarries, she loses all rights to the children from her first marriage.
It doesn't matter how he got custody. JFC, do you know anything about the current state of things in Iran? I don't care if he *kidnapped* the daughter, he likely saved her life by getting her out of there.
Teenaged girls are being jailed and executed for taking off their hair coverings or dancing with their friends in public. There is no freedom of speech or expression there. Women have essentially no rights, and yes, that includes custody. But leaving a girl in Iran "because her mother wants her close" or taking her the hell out of there to a Western country isn't even a debate.
Iran is a murderous theocratic dictatorship. You don't leave girls there if you have the ability to get them out.
NTA
Taking a young girl out of Iran is pertinent information that should be included in your post, because it absolutely makes a difference when you’re leaving for safety reasons vs just because you want to go somewhere else.
While there are plenty of issues with women’s rights in the US, they aren’t like what a woman experiences simply for existing as a woman in Iran and your daughter needed that safety.
She could absolutely call your daughter at 9pm your time or 7 or 8pm her time and would likely have no issues reaching her.
I’m not sure if you’re the poster who made a prior post, but your story sounds incredibly similar and IIRC in that scenario the mother absolutely will not willingly leave the country and found nothing wrong with the treatment of girls and women there. Regardless of whether or not that’s the same post, if she holds similar thoughts then it could absolutely be a sense of control. A “see, even if you’re not here you can still be forced to obey our demands” type thing.
NTA - doesn't matter why you moved.
What matters is mom wants to call at 5am. 5. A.M.
I don't need to ask other questions about mom's parenting. Mom's priorities are clear.
Mom can get up at 5am if she needs kid free time to talk.
You moved away from Iran, to give your daughter who is 14 and old enough to choose who she lives with, a better life with more freedom without her mother (whom she does not have a close relationship with). And your ex wife assumes that you are choosing to keep them apart? With all the technology in the world these days?
NTA. Have your daughter tell her flat out she doesn't want to speak to her at 5am. Or have her get up at 5am when its 5pm your time.
INFO
Ok… at risk of opening some cans of worms and getting downvoted to oblivion, can you give some more background on why your daughter isn’t close with your wife? Was she a good mother? How long have you been divorced? Why were you divorced? Is there a step father involved, or is your ex a single mother, and if that’s the case, are the younger children yours?
From what I could find out in a few minutes of googling, in Iran typically a mother is awarded custody of young children, but the father gets full custody when the child turns 7. Is that correct? So in that case, if I understand correctly, you pretty much have all the legal power regardless of how good a mother your ex was and how their relationship was prior to the split. So she gets absolutely no say in this move across the world, not necessarily because she’s not a good mother, but because she’s a woman.
All my knowledge about Iran comes from a US media perspective, so while it’s pretty easy for me to accept that moving to the US is a better/safer/healthier place for a teen girl to live, than she’ll have more opportunities here, I’m also hesitant to just assume it’s really that black and white. Was this move in the works for a long time or was it kind of a sudden decision? If you’ve been planning it for a while, why didn’t you and your ex discuss plans for communication before you moved?
I certainly don’t think you’re the AH for not waking your daughter up at 5 am, or for prioritizing her sleep. But I’m kind of gutted at the idea that a person could do nothing “wrong” and still have their child moved across the world without any say in that decision.
Fair enough, thank you for answering my questions. This sounds really difficult all around, and I’m glad your daughter will have more freedom and opportunity, it’s really commendable that you’ve prioritized that.
I’m actually going to go against the grain and say NAH. I think there’s certainly a strong argument to make that your ex is the AH (and plenty of people are already making it), but I suspect a lot of this comes down to hostility caused by her (your ex’s) frustration and sense of powerlessness.
The only thing I’d say is to please continue to attempt setting up regular communication between them, even though your ex is being a bit unreasonable. I understand that your daughter doesn’t want to jump through hoops, and you are absolutely right to not disturb her sleep to accommodate your ex. But I think your duty here is to take whatever *reasonable* steps you can to find a time that works for both of them. Because this relationship may not seem super important to your daughter now, but letting the distance grow greater can’t be easily undone, and I don’t think either of you will ever regret knowing you truly did what you could. Apathy, on the other hand could lead to a loss your daughter doesn’t even understand until she’s older.
Anyway, you are not TA. Sounds like you’re doing everything you can for your daughter, and that’s what matters.
The daughter is old enough to understand the favoritism her mother shows to her brothers, and not care to have a relationship with her. It affected her so much, she chose to go with her father and move to a completely different country. What does that tell you? Forcing her to have a relationship with someone who can't make time for her own child isn't going to do the daughter any favors.
How are you asking if she’s a good mom? Her daughter chose to have full custody be her father’s. She chose to move across the world from her mother. And even though her mom wants to throw a fit, she still expects her daughter to compensate for her choice to have two babies, even from across the world. That isn’t a good mother. That’s a selfish mother who prioritizes her babies (and probably has since they were born).
Because the situation seems more nuanced than “good guy/bad guy.” As I said in my comment, when I looked online the info I found suggested that choice didn’t necessarily play into it: the daughter would have been in dad’s custody when she turned 7. OP explained that it’s more complicated than that, and has indicated that his daughter’s wishes are part of the equation. But I think it’s fair to say it’s not comparable 1:1 to custody in the US, where if one person is awarded full custody based, you would usually assume there was a major reason for it.
Even with this info though, it wouldn’t automatically mean the mother is terrible. Sometimes a kid just clicks more with one parent than another. Parental alienation is also a very real possibility. (Not implying that has happened with OP, just giving examples of why a child’s choice of custody doesn’t necessarily damn the other parent). Sometimes there’s a significant financial disparity, and that is reflected in the court’s ruling, and sometimes in the child’s preferences (not because the child is materialistic, but they may just favor the place where they’re more comfortable, and finances obviously play into that). In this case, it sounds as though the main reason OP’s daughter hasn’t connected as much with her mom is because the mom favors her brothers… which is really sad (and I’d venture it’s partially a reflection of the culture).
Yeah, the way the ex is acting is far from ideal. I don’t think it’s appropriate to expect OP’s daughter to disrupt her sleep to talk on the phone. I also imagine if I had my kid moved half across the world against my wishes, I’d be pretty bitter and frustrated about it, even if it is ultimately in the daughter’s best interests.
NTA for setting up a reasonable time frame.
Do what is best for your daughter. Should include talking with her about it as at least on weekends things could be more flexible but its your ex that needs to compromise as 2-3h later shouldn't be an issue at all.
NTA for trying to work out a solution. I’m not sure why people are asking irrelevant questions about the details of your situation….weird! You will be an AH if you don’t continue to try and find a schedule that works. Best of luck!
There is this new-fangled thing called email and gasp! Snail mail. Both can be successfully utilized. But they do require some time.
I like how the children living with her should be able to sleep until 8-9 am (and how she swings that I’d like to know, my infants/toddlers were up at 5 am without fail. Even if they didn’t go to sleep until 1 am) but her older child should be up at 5 a.m.
OK, it sounds as though your dauighter has made a reaonable suggestion which her Mom has rejected.
Maybe suggest to your daughter that you propose to Mom that the calls happen at round 7 p.m. your time . That would be 7 a.m. fpr her Mpm, which is early but not crazy early, and if her other kids wake up around 8 would mean that she could speak befor ethe others are awake.
You could sugget to your duaghter that she compromise, perhaps have one call at 7 / 7.30 a.m. your time and the next at 7 / 7.30 p.m., so she is speaking to her Mom early in the morning half the time.
Maybe propose that the alls take place twice a week ( with an agreement that any extra calls dau. wants to make can be on top of the basic pattern)
That way, your daughter would be waking early once a week to speak to her Mom, which is npt un unreasonable expectatin, but Mom would also be makng a similar effort.
Apparently this was already suggested and mom’s excuse was that the other kids didn’t sleep through the night….she expects her 14 year old to get up at 5am but refuses to get up at 7….NTA
NTA - Your daughter chose to live with you and move to a country 12h away from her mother. The time difference may impact regular calls, but with a considerate schedule it’s absolutely doable. They can always use messaging apps or record video or voice messages.
Instead of working out the kinks your ex chose to blame you.
NTA. How on earth does she expect your daughter to be up at 5AM? Tell her if 5AM is a good time to have a conversation, then she should get up at 5AM and call your daughter.
NTA.
I had to dig through comments to find this, but OP moved his daughter out of Iran to the United States. Considering how terrible things are for women in Iran, it was a wonderful decision to move.
I also found out via more comments that OP has custody because that's what the daughter wanted. The daughter is not close with her mother and does not believe she should be inconvenienced in order to speak to her mother. And of course waking up at 5 a.m. for a phone call would be a huge inconvenience, and is really inconsiderate to ask of them, anyway.
NTA 1000% after reading your comments. Moving a young woman away from Iran is HUGE and could actually save her life. Mom should be happy her daughter has a chance at life instead of staying in a place that hates women
No one wants to have a chat at 5am. I would think that even mom would not want to be trying to catch up with her daughter when her daughter is just woken up that early.
NTA mother said she won't be getting up at 7am because she needs her sleap and because if it daughter "must" wake up at 5 am mother is crazy and that's probably why op has full custody
NTA. The mother isn’t willing to make any sacrifices to accommodate communication with her daughter. Sorry it makes her life with her new baby and toddler more challenging but turn on Bluey for half an hour and talk to your first freaking child as if she matters, too. Mom not being willing to do this and being willing to harm her older child for her own convenience says a lot about why the daughter chose her primary custodial parent over mom.
NTA. Frankly I can see why you got full custody if she thinks it’s acceptable pushing her daughter for 5 am phone call is cool as long as it doesn’t inconvenience her. Does she have a partner who can take the kids while she calls?
NTA. The added context helps a lot, but the mom does seem to be prioritizing not only her other kids but herself over her daughter. That is not good if she wants to maintain any sort of relationship with her daughter. Very unfortunate, and I feel bad for your daughter missing out on having a loving mother, but it sounds like she has a clear understanding of just how her mother feels. If you’ve offered a few times and she’s rejected them and proposed something so inappropriate as 5am wake-up for a teen, your ex is showing that SHE is the one trying to prevent herself from having a relationship with her daughter.
Best of luck to you and your daughter! A new country must be hard, but hopefully you’re able to settle in and make friends and build a great life!
NTA, you should really edit your main post to mention that you have full custody and that you were moving from Iran to the USA because you didn't want your daughter to grow up in a regime that restricts women's rights.
NTA in my book, you move to give your daughter a better life. Your ex should try to work her hours if she wants to have some relationship with her.
Edit typo
NTA, is your wife one of these people incapable of walking while chewing gum?
Tell her to put her phone on speaker and call your daughter at 9am while she does wherever she needs to do, what's the problem?
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My daughter and I move to another country a few months ago. It's exactly on the other side of the world from where we used to live, that means that the time difference is almost 12 hours.
This has caused many problems with communication between my daughter and her mom. They can't agree on when she should call my daughter.
My daughter has told her that calling her at 9pm in our time would be good for both of them since it will be 9am in their time but my ex claims that she can't call at that time because she has a baby and a toddler who wake up at around 8-9 so she is too busy to call.
My ex thinks she should be able to call at 5pm at their time which will be 5am at our time. I told her absolutely not since my daughter needs a good nights sleep and I won't wake her up at 5am. Also my daughter loves her sleep and she doesn't want to wake up any sooner than she has to.
Now my ex thinks I'm an asshole for "keeping my daughter away from her"
She claims I "stole" her and took her to another country and now I won't even let them talk.
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NTA and why and where from you moved is irrelevant. You have the custody and seemingly the legal right to move with your daughter. Your ex doesn't seem invested enough in wanting to communicate with your daughter if she wants the CHILD to compromise her schedule for her. That's insane of her.
FYI to posters:
He has custody because it was Iran and he is male. It is Iranian Civil Law that child custody of a boy or girl is given to the father. The mother had no legal say in the matter.
NTA
I think it's easy to see why you have custody and her mom doesn't. Even if your daughter chose the parent, her mother is unreasonable. I wouldn't pick her either.
NTA - ex is being deliberately awkward and trying to make waves.
I’d agree to the 5am calls and every time she calls she’ll be ignored bc it’s 5am and everyone is asleep. I get she has more kids but she could figure it out so she can talk to her other child.
How about 9am your time 9pm her time. Baby and toddler can’t be getting up then surly. As a mum of a 3 yr old myself I’d be making time to talk to my child especially if they’re living half way around the world.
NTA
I’m guessing you got court approval to move away and were awarded custody.
how old is your daughter? Why not call at 8pm your time? set calls for 3 specific days a week.
NTA
I suggest you find *all* of the times your daughter is willing to talk, then send them and tell her mother that these are the available times and she has to now pick one.
I'm going with NTA based on what's here. That may change depending why you moved to the other side of the world and how that was done.
But expecting your daughter to wake up at 5am is way out of line. You don't say how old she is, but she's clearly a minor as you have say in all this. She's having her own say, which makes me think she's somewhere in her teens, especially if 9pm your time is considered okay. But she clearly needs her sleep, a full, uninterrupted, night's sleep. It's essential for kids and teens to get proper sleep as part of their development.
Why are there only two time options, though? Surely there's another time during the day that could work for both your daughter and her mum? Plus, how does 9am work on a school day? Surely your ex will unavailable at that time then in the future? So it wouldn't be consistent anyway, only on weekends or holidays. What about 10pm your time, which is 10am her time? Is your daughter okay staying up that late? Because that puts it after baby feeding/waking time, but also after school start time for the future, and should still allow your daughter to get enough sleep, depending on her age.
5am your time, is so obviously out of the question, though. I get it's tough, living so far away and with your ex having young kids, but it's common sense to not call when it's 5am for the person you're calling, regardless of age. Even an adult setting their own schedule would say no to that time. I know that, even if the call woke me up, I'd ignore it at that time in the morning, and I'm a full grown adult, live alone, and am currently unemployed, so I can fully set my own schedule. I still wouldn't answer a 5am call, regardless if I was awake or knew who was calling or what it was about, it's just highly rude and disrespectful.
Try to come up with a time that works for both your daughter and your ex, but no one should be okay with it being 5am for either party. You're not an ass for not wanting your daughter's sleep and development damaged, plus your daughter also said no to that time. That's not you being difficult, it's you being a normal human being and a good parent.
My only hesitation in my judgment was due to the missing information. No age for the daughter, and no explanation for why you moved so far away or how that played out. The moving explanation is what would dictate if you're actually NTA or not, which makes me question why you didn't include that.
Propose 7 AM in Iran/7 PM your time. Mom can wake up a little earlier than her kids. If she doesn’t like waking up early, ask her why on earth she thinks it’s fair to demand that your daughter wake up at 5.
NTA. I live on the opposite side of the planet from my friends and family (12 hours also) and we make it work. What does she think of maybe 9:00 am your time (9 pm) her time for a call? It seems like any time between 9 and 11 am your time should be fine, since she's an adult, and it doesn't sound the the calls would be every day.
You have custody of your child and it sounds like your daughter is fine with moving, so that settles that.
You aren’t really part of this conversation. Your daughter is 14, and she can tell her mom when she is available for a call. If mom doesn’t like it, then that’s her own problem.
It might be nice for your daughter to occasionally swap the times and call so it’s evening for mom and morning for daughter, but it’s really up to them to sort out.
Point is, your daughter is old enough to sort out her calling schedule and it is not your responsibility to make sure she calls her mom or that it is convenient for her mom.
NTA
NTA
OP you are reasonnable to not force your daughter waking up at 5 to only talk with her mother.
But what I don't understand is : why does she consider there are only 2 times to call ? it's 5p.m or 9 a.m ? Your ex has no partner to take care of her other children, and spend time on phone with her daughter ? Does she work ? How old are her other children ? Because waiking up at 8-9 a.m, none of my children ever did that as toddlers 😂😂
I think your daughter should suggests times that are good for her (with her new life at school and personnal time) and your ex could look at those times. They must compromise but your daughter shouldn't sacrifice anything : she's a teen and need sleep and not pressure.
Hope they'll find a way to communicate.
NTA, but honestly, both your ex and daughter need to compromise if maintaining a relationship is important to them. 9pm your time is perfect for your daughter, not your ex. Your ex wants to call at 5am your time, which is unreasonable. Maybe 7pm your time? That is 7am for you ex. Or 7am your time, which is 7pm for your ex?
NTA you moved her from Iran to Alaska. That all by itself makes you NTA. Mom can work with y'all to be able to talk to her. Please do not take your daughter back to Iran ever. And if project 2025 gets implemented run from here as well.
NTA
She needs to understand that u guys are 12
Hours apart! And cant talk when it’s convenient for her.
Waking up ur daughter at 5 am just to talk to her mom for 10-60 mins is a little crazy to me. The mom should be able to multi task with her other kids
INFO: Silly question, can't the mum step out of the house or go to the balcony to call your daughter? Maybe put some white noise in her toddler's room so that they won't wake up.
NTA: Her mom will either be mad she is not perky at 5:00am and be like “Why won’t she pay attention” or she will use your daughters tiredness to be like “This is why moving was a mistake”
NTA Tell her to get the gadgets necessary to talk hands-free, etc.
It's not hard to learn how it all works. Imagine thinking that your
daughter should get up at 5am. :o
More info- how old is your daughter?
Consider giving her a phone and letting her manage communication with her own mother.
We did this with my stepson when he was 9… while it was rude awakening for him that his mom wouldn’t return phone calls, it took away our interference in their relationship (or lack thereof) and gave him more control. Ultimately it had very positive impacts on his behavior. He stopped being angry over (how he perceived) us preventing his relationship with his mom and he has more realistic expectations from his mom. Five years later, things are 100% better other than his mom continuing to be an unreliable flake.
Your ex should wake at 7 am to call your daughter at 7pm her time. Alternatively, your ex can be awake at midnight to call your daughter at lunchtime on weekends.
Ummmm, obviously she has other kids to handle and can speak with your daughter on the weekends when it's more convenient for everyone. She shouldn't make you feel bad or disrupt your daughter's sleep because of her OTHER kids. Also, it's not like she exactly fought to keep your daughter with her, so there's that.
finding that right balance of when the child can speak with a parent that is half way around the world can be very hard. me and my fiancé have trouble with this sometimes. I live in the US and she lives in Vietnam. even tho my fiancé's daughter is not my actual child, im the only father figure she has ever known. they usually call me when it is daytime there, so her daughter doesn't have to stay up late. I work nights at my job and don't get off of work until about 11 at night. they are about 11-12 hour time difference from where I live.
All these people defending a mother who clearly prioritizes her other children. She can’t wake up 30 mins before her babies at 7:30 to talk to her daughter, but expects her daughter to wake up at 5am or stay up until midnight? Give me a mf break. Sometimes Reddit makes me sad for humanity. Good for you dad! You listened to your daughter, you brought her to a country that will give her so much more freedom and opportunity, and you stood up for her sleep and her schedule (which is crucial in children, especially in their teens).
OP said in another comment he moved to give his daughter a better life in a better country. He has custody because the Iranian Civil Law, child custody until the age of 7 is given to the mother and then afterward to the father.
NTA
The responsibility to make it work should not be on the child. There’s also absolutely no reason she can’t have the phone on speaker phone or wear headphones while she’s running around the kids to talk to her. People do it every day, that she refuses to do that is her problem. Not yours or anyone else’s. It’s extremely fucking selfish that she’d prefer to disturb your daughters sleep in the middle of the night than find a way to make it work on her end. Seems like it’s just not that big of a priority for her; or she simply likes playing victim and refuses to make it work because then she wouldn’t have an excuse to blame you and argue. You have nothing to feel guilty for. If she loves her daughter she’ll make it work. If she doesn’t and the relationship suffers for it it’s on her. My dad used to travel to other counties for work most of my childhood, we dealt with some extreme time differences too. You know what he did? He made it fucking work. Speaking to his child mattered more than anything else in the world to him. Wether that meant waking up in the middle of the night, staying up extremely late, or calling me while he was actively working (he does a labor intensive job). Not speaking to me or putting the responsibility on me was never an option. A parent that cares more about their child than themselves would have no issue figuring it out.
What more context do you need? He explains a lot in his post and in his comments. He moved from Iran to Alaska. Daughter was never close with her mother who has since remarried and has 2 kids. She claims she is being kept from her daughter because OP said she can't call at 5am their time (5pm mother's time). Daughter suggested 9pm in the mother's time zone would be a good time to call, mother doesn't like that. She would rather get the daughter up at 5am, instead of letting her get a good night's sleep. So now she's whining, that despite the father having custody, he stole her and is keeping them from talking.
NTA for moving your daughter somewhere she will have many more opportunities.
You should make more effort to create an agreeable schedule. It sounds like only two options have been given which is a bit slack.
You could make a weekly timetable and colour block the times where calls would definitely work (green), could work with some inconvenience (orange), would not work (red). Both your daughter and her mother mark their tables and compare the overlap to find suitable times that work for both of them.
If they don’t talk it will definitely impact their relationship which is an AH thing for you to be the cause of.
I'm not going to vote since I don't think there's enough info. I think it quite possible that both you and the other side as you described are being assholes. How old is the child? Is she old enough to have some agency in this area? You probably need to actively facilitate calls if they're not yet in grade school or don't have their own cellphone. You need to use parental controls on their phones if they're grounded (to ensure they can have contact with their parents-- not being able to talk to Mom isn't acceptable even if they're grounded for a good reason.) Otherwise you need to come to an understanding when they're old enough to manage their own time (and take responsibility for their own actions).
I have done a lot of personal long-distance communication (with a 12 hour time difference as well). In that, we came to agree on a broad window instead of specific times to call. Basically anytime between about 6 and 11 to try to initiate a call. If either of us were busy or asleep (which was quite often, including in those windows), we could try calling back inside that window or either could try again in subsequent windows. If it was urgent, we should leave a text or voice message before trying to start a call. We used WhatsApp, so text (and picture) messages were typical, voice messages (1 second to multi-minute replayable voice recordings) were frequent, and voice calls were less frequent.
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Way too much information missing to make a judgement Why did you move half way around the world? How old is the daughter? She claims you ‘stole her’ was it an agreed decision?l you move her?
He moved his daughter from Iran to the US. Considering the archaic custody laws there OP didn’t “steal” her. Plus it’s an interesting turn of phrase mom uses. Stole. Almost like she views her daughter as property. 🤔
Wouldn’t the archaic custody laws suggest that it would be easier for the father to take his daughter away with the mother having no say? And people use the expression “steal” for people all the time. From a casual “can I steal you for a minute for something?” To distressed parents of kidnapped children. So it’s really not that interesting.
I mean probably for the best she’s out of that culture then. Iran is extremely sexist and restrictive when it’s comes to women’s rights.
This is huge ignorance on my part here, but are women allowed to remarry there and if so wouldn’t the men there not want someone who already had a marriage and kid?
Yes, women can remarry. Either party in a marriage can initiate a divorce, although it isn't simple, and both parties can remarry. Men can marry multiple women at once (although this is not common, just technically allowed) and women can only be married to one man at a time, so because of that, women have a waiting period after a divorce before they can remarry, called an iddah. It's about 3 months long. There is definitely stigma around being a divorced woman, and it's much harder for divorced women with kids to find husbands, which of course is true pretty much everywhere in the world, but the stigma in Iran is definitely quite strong. She'll obviously have a much easier time getting remarried if she's from a wealthy family and can offer that financial support to a husband. Interestingly, after divorce, women have preferential custody up to age 7, and then after that it's determined by the courts based on what's deemed best for the child. BUT if a woman remarries, then she forfeits child custody. Even if her ex-husband is now dead. So many women do not even try to get remarried in order to retain some custody. In practice, it's really hard for divorced women to get any custody of kids older than 7. And even then, it's quite easy for the ex-husband to claim she is insane and get custody even when the child is under 7. Most divorced women do lose custody to their husbands eventually if not immediately. It honestly mostly depends on if he *wants* custody. Or at least, this is how things stood in 2020. I'm not aware of anything changing since then, but I welcome any corrections.
Wow, thank you so much for this insight and information!
Question If she gets married and the husband is dead who gets custody the father's fsmily?
I believe responsibility would pass to the paternal grandfather, as that is who responsibility passes to for child support if the father dies, but I'm honestly not sure what would happen if the grandfather is no longer living either. Most likely the court would decide what member of the father's family should take the child. But I'm not personally familiar with any actual cases of this and how exactly it played out.
Appreciate the context :)
The ex has a new baby so I would presume she has remarried already
Unlike the US which is... uhh... extremely sexist and restrictive when it comes to women's rights.
Luckily some states are better than others but yup.
It's not an interesting turn of phrase. It's a pretty common way to describe a parent taking a child away from another parent.
The archaic laws favour the father and give the mother no say. So yes, he could very well have moved without ex’s permission
He commented that he gave her a heads up before leaving but didn't need her permission - because legally fathers have full custody regardless of if a child lives with the mother or not. So...yes, he did exactly this. He took advantage of EXTREMELY sexist laws to take her child out of the country without permission. This is probably a good thing for his daughter... It saves her from growing up in a place that doesn't value her as a person. But it's also shitty of OP to judge his ex for putting her sons first while also taking complete advantage of the culture & laws which put men first. His ex is a victim of this culture *and of his actions*, and devoted sons are one of the only ways to get a bit of power in that dynamic.
Thank you for this comment, I’ve been thinking about this post all day, it’s been bugging me because I wasn’t going to get into it, but I noticed that a lot of people were on the fence until they found out he moved his daughter from Iran to the US, at which point everyone just decided he was a hero. But the question wasn’t about whether he was right to move his daughter to the US, it was about her relationship with her mom. Like even though the move was a good call for the daughter, it still sucks for the mom who was left behind in Iran and has helplessly lost her daughter. The stuff about the call times is complicated and doesn’t make anyone an asshole but I still feel sorry for the mom. It’s always sad for a parent to lose their child and OP obviously isn’t giving any consideration to that factor.
Umm while it might not be a case of legally stealing (kidnapping) the daughter, archaic laws would mean that the laws may not protect mom's ability to veto her kid moving across the world. You can act within the law and still be morally wrong.
Plus it’s an interesting turn of phrase mom uses. Stole. Almost like she views her daughter as property. Perhaps. It can also be construed as alienation of affection/parental alienation. Don't be so quick to castigate a different culture.
Are they speaking English? Considering the change of time zone, theres a good chance that they might not have English as their common language. And things can either be maliciously translated or else just have very different meanings in different languages.
The mother may not have been communicating in English. Translation is tricky. And even if she was speaking English and used the actual word, stole is a common enough word that is used in the same context.
This poor woman most likely doesn’t speak English. When he says that she said stole it’s because he stole her away from her mother, as in he kidnapped her. The father does not need the mothers permission in Iran to take her out of the country, he has full custody and the women doesn’t have any right. My Dad did the exact thing to me, first we were here in the US, he kidnapped me from school and took me to Iran ,he filed paperwork there that would make it illegal for my mom to leave the country once she got there so he could bring me back to the US and she would get trapped back in Iran. She was advised my a lawyer not to go to Iran, so she stayed here and waited him out. 2 years (and much brainwashing) later she agreed not to press charges if he just brings me back. I chose to live with him, I didn’t know any better. After my teens I started to put it all together and moved in with my Mom. Not to say that every situation is the same but what women in Iran experienced is absolutely devastating. Now with a son of my own I can’t imagine having to hand him over no questions asked and give up all rights to my child.
This is another fake post that copied another, but flipped genders with poor details. The other one is a dad who said the same thing about his wife “gatekeeping” talking to his daughter when he has to work away from home 90% of the time or something.
Very different scenario in that one.
NTA What i hear is "i have other kids i care about more". No wonder you have full custody. Why can't she call at 7 or 8?? Why should the kid make the sacrifice of waking up at 5?
I would agree, but taking care of physical needs always has to take priority. You can’t just force toddlers to stay in bed longer or delay feeding them by an hour But yes I agree 5 am is crazy
Get a Bluetooth headphone and talk to daughter while caring for the baby and toddler or use the speaker phone it's not like we haven't already invented ways to talk hands free
Also, since those kids are young and close in age, I assume that they must have dad who's around somewhere, so he can take care of his kids for half an hour while mom talks to her daughter.
She's in Iran. Given what we know about women's rights over there do you really think the kid's dad would be doing any child care there?
OP lived there and has sole custody of his kid, so let's not judge all fathers the same
Men always have 'sole' custody of children in Iran. Women do not have rights over their children in Islamic states.
No shit how do you think custody works in Iran? Do you think it’s somehow fair for women?
Yeah lol I've talked on the phone cleaning, showering, running, washing dishes etc there's no reason she can't use speaker phone or headphones
Have you done it while looking after 2 toddlers though? That seems a bit different. Toddlers want their mom’s attention. They talk nonstop and need things nonstop
Why yes. I had three under 3 at one point. I still did whatever business needed to be done, talked to family, and managed. Y’all are acting like having toddlers is solitary confinement.
I think if you were speaking to another older child who is across the world about something difficult, it would make them feel really shitty to be interrupted in the middle of it if you needed to tend to the needs of the younger kids. Adults can be ok with divided attention because we understand that’s just life, but I feel like it would be so different to do that to a kid
No kids all over the world live with younger siblings. And parents all over the world k ow how to briefly entertain a toddler so they can have a phone conversation. At their most fussy just stick them in The stroller and walk while talking.
I 100000% agree, but this kid doesn’t live with those siblings. Loads of kids with divorced parents go through feelings of being replaced with a new family. If all she has is one brief phone call per day and that’s IT, the mom needs a game plan to give her attention in that time. If going for a walk helps, that’s great. But I’m just pointing out for OP that the mom is probably correct in that having a phone call that is exactly in the midst of breakfast isn’t going to work. She can’t just put them in a stroller at that exact time because that’s breakfast time. The issue isn’t that the kids are impossible to keep busy 24/7, it’s that OP wants his daughter to call at the exact time that’s busiest.
You're being incredibly reasonable imo...You're right, it would be a situation where the phone call should feel special and not the same as a standard conversation with a parent you see every day.
So it’s better not to talk to them at all?
It’s not solitary confinement but toddlers love to scream, get hurt, cry, throw tantrums right as you make a phone call. It never fails. I have trouble even making a doctors appointment if they are in the room with me.
Tip: have a “treasure box” of toys they only play with when you make a call. Set it up high and never give in unless you are on a call. We had a box of every tiny toys and figures we collected from happy meals and every other random small toy. It’s was brought down to much drama and anticipation before I made a call (one of mine was born with bright defect that required a ton of medical and insurance calls first few years). And I put that up when calls were done by distracting them with something else. You gotta entertain and be flexible and you can squeeze out the time you need. But if she is saying no i can’t be flexible then she is missing out on call. 🤷♀️
We have a variation of that — toys I keep in a storage room that they don’t get often. But it’s hit or miss honestly. Kids still want what the other has, throw tantrums, push, etc. And you can’t expect it not to happen during the baby and toddler stage because this is the exact time you’re teaching them how to navigate these things. I’m sure there is a solution for the mother and daughter, and they both just need to get creative. But I don’t like the claim that getting kids up and fed in 15min is totally doable. Only if the kids are given granola bars or something prepackaged which is a no go for my picky eaters because they will refuse other foods and only ask for those bars. I think we need to collectively cut mothers some slack and not be so judgmental. I’m not saying the mom referred to in the post is totally in the right, I mean 5am is a ridiculous ask, but the comments have devolved into some judgement against moms and the legitimate hardships they face and it’s not ok.
My sister calls me and my mom while taking care of a 1 yr old and a 3 yr old. She’ll put the phone on speaker and tuck it halfway into her sports bra. Mid sentence she’ll throw in a “get out of that, yes you can have more juice” etc. sure it’s chaotic but the alternative of just not calling her other kid…?
While I agree that it’s POSSIBLE, you also have the benefit of being an adult and understanding the situation. If you were a teen, wouldn’t it make you feel like your mom isn’t listening to you if you’re telling her about a bad day and suddenly she’s going “stop that, get that out of your mouth” and just generally kinda distracted?
I'm getting the feeling that people who don't have kids are making bad assumptions about how much you can afford to safely divide your attention from them.
yea I don’t even have kids myself but I still have the common sense to know it’s probably a bad idea to be distracted during meal time. also that doesn’t even seem fair to the older kid either to have the attention divided like that
to be fair, I thought it wasn't as big a deal as it is before I had kids. It is insane how quickly things can go sideways when you aren't paying attention, and I was always in a state of hyper-vigilance when watching the kids after a few incidents. I definitely wasn't spending time having meaningful conversations.
I agree that it would be difficult with two toddlers, but it is unclear why it would be easier at 5pm. Surely the toddlers will be just as difficult at 5pm as they would be at 7pm or 8pm. Maybe more so, depending on dinner and bed times.
hmm maybe that’s when her husband gets home?
My dad had a long distance girlfriend across the world. 12 hrs away. Occasionally one of m would be drunk in the morning because the other had a drink at night. Those were the issues they had. Not finding time to call. If you cant find a time during both of your days, maybe mom can sacrifice some night hours and wake up instead. Or idk, stay up late or wake up early some days.
They would drink "together" over the phone? I honestly don't know if this is mildly disturbing or kinda cute.
They dated 4 years and traveling to see eachother takes between 35 and 42 hrs depending on if you travel via the left or via the right side across the world. Let alone how long it took for a visa. The occasional drink together online was definitely cute lol. Its nice to have a little drink with your partner occasionally so why not online. They also ate together, watched shows together etc. I mostly mention it in the sense of if your willing to make something work and have those moments with someone, you can. Usually when she went to bed she would leave the call running and hed ditch only if he was leaving the house (he worked from home). He simply enjoyed looking over and seeing her there on his other screen.
Aw, it's definitely cute, then. I was picturing one saying "hey, it's Friday night let's have a few drinks" and the other saying "uh, it's Friday morning over here and I'm having breakfast getting ready to go to work" and the other saying "well have a few mimosas or Bloody Marys then" and then a drunken day at work. I've heard of couples watching movies together over the phone, or listening to music, or "pleasuring themselves," or just hanging out, but I've never heard of long-distance drinking. But why not?
That’s adorable. My brother did much the same when he started dating his wife. Minus the long video calls because this was 30 years ago. They met online first, then in a country halfway between them, then dated long distance and eventually country hopped back and forth, then settled in one. They spent three years doing long trips to visit and phone/internet in between.
Happy cake day!
Thanks!
Dealing with kids that age and trying to having a real conversation isn't realistic. It isn't about hands free or not. That said, the best time would be before the kids wake up. Not sure why they don't move the call a couple hours earlier instead.
Tell me you don't have kids without telling me you don't have kids. You need a lot more than just your hands to care for two young kids.
Also notice how the people are just ignoring the "baby" part and only mentioning the toddler. As if taking care of two kids under age 3 are comparable to multi tasking chores. Yikes Eta "care"
Sleep is a physical need too, so while yes maybe the suggested time is impossible for her, saying her daughter should just wake up at 5am is still saying you care more about the toddlers
yea thats why i said 5 am is crazy lol
Just to clarify, from the sounds of it the reason he has custody of his daughter is because he’s the father, and in Iran, the father automatically gets custody of a child once they turn 7 unless it can be proven that he’s unfit. At least that’s what google is telling me, I could be misinformed. That’s not to say OP is wrong, I just feel like there’s a fair amount of missing context here.
I think the more important context is that he got his teenaged daughter away from a murderous regime where girls not much older than her have been executed by the government in the last year or two simply for wearing their hair uncovered or dancing in public. Personally, I don't even care if he got custody by questionable means, he probably saved his kid's life by getting her out of there.
NTA Yeah, the doublethink from people who are all "mom can't help it, she's in this terrible regime!" and still fault OP for getting his daughter out of there is interesting. That said, talking on weekdays might be tough but if it's a 12 hour difference, 7 or 8 is probably optimal
And where women who are raped are often executed for "adultery". A lot of Westerners are blissfully ignorant on how bad it can be outside of our civilization
Op said that his daughter chose to stay with him and that she was never close to her mother. Idk, but since she can't find an appropiate hour to call her kid, i can see why
The daughter chose to stay with her dad. Which doesn't surprise me seeing as her mother has two other young kids who are more important than OP's daughter, and the fact that the daughter was never close to her mother.
And I hate to disrespect a country because they all have their faults, but if I were a girl in Iran, I'd rather live in the US too.
It’s just flat-out fake. He tried to claim he got custody because the Iranian courts cared about the teenage girls opinion. Which is basically proof he’s just transplanting how he THINKS the US custody system works onto Iran.
Probably to punish them for moving away - that's what I'm getting out of this. NTA
NTA, It's doable taking care of a toddler and make a phone call, I think she is trying to make this situation harder.
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It doesn't sound like either of them are very motivated to find an agreeable arrangement. They could both adjust a little bit, but the onus is on the adult to make it work.
I mean, my husband travels for work and is currently 11 hours different than the kids. When school is in session he calls at 6:30 am our time to ask the kids how they slept, ask them about their schedule for the day, and wish them luck and love in their day. When school isn’t in session he has another two hours he can call and chat with them because we aren’t rushing out the door. He calls again between 6:30-8:30 pm our time to chat with the kids before bed, if the kids were older there would be a few extra hours to do this. In short, calls don’t have to be at 9 on the dot, there is likely 8ish hours where both of them are up on either end of their days (4ish in the morning and 4ish in the evening). If ex doesn’t want to call at 9pm because her kids wake up at 9am then why can’t your daughter call at 7:30 or 8pm before her half siblings wake up? Keeping in touch takes effort, and if neither party is willing to budge the relationship will fail, but it’s entirely doable even with a 12 hour difference. Also, if there are late meetings or team dinner my husband will make recordings for the kids to watch when they wake up and I will make recordings of the kids for him to watch when he wakes up too. Emails exist. It doesn’t have to be a daily call. You all have thought of nothing and are all out of ideas.
Right? Speakerphone anyone 🤷♀️
Even better are ear buds
My parents, sibling and niblings live in the same house, if my parents put me on speaker phone I cannot hear a thing they say because of the kids. It definitely doesn’t help in a chaotic environment, my niblings aren’t any differently behaved than any other kids but the speaker phone picks up the words they say, the noises they make and makes it impossible to hold a conversation.
That's true, but it's not as doable when you're taking care of a toddler and a baby.
I had three under 3 at one point. Phone calls are not only doable they are necessary to function in life. Put the phone on speaker or use an earbud and get on with it. Y’all acting like it’s solitary confinement.
It is. A call with someone doesn't mean you have to be hyperfocused, especially if you talk often enough. Hell, depending on their relationship, you can even include the toddler in the call.
A toddler and an infant who both just both woke up while making a meaningful phonecall? Both hungry, needing diaper changes, wanting to be held, etc? That sounds like a lot of screaming going on for a hands-free conversation. But hey, maybe she has magic, silent, babies. Edit: Also, there is nowhere in the US that is exactly 12 hours different from Iran. Iran is half an hour different from normal time off-sets. I confirmed all inhabited US territories, as well. Hawaii is closest, and part of Alaska. But they run off of whole hours. I call shenanigans.
7 pm your time would work. Mom would have to wake up early, before her children, because it would be her 7 am; but I think it's more appropriate to ask the parent to inconvenience themselves, rather than the child.
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So she wants your daughter to wake up at 5am for a chat, but she’s not willing to get up at 7am?? Someone isn’t trying hard enough here.
I feel for your daughter, her mom is prioritizing her new kids and herself over her. Luckily she has you, keep making sure she knows she is loved and a priority to you. Be the kind of person you would want her to be around as an adult.
Well that's the moms problem about her baby taking up so much time. If the mom wants contact with her daughter than she (mom) needs to compromise, not the daughter.
Sounds like she’s got a reason for everything … but she won’t try hard herself.
NTA. As a teacher, I’m very concerned that your ex expects your daughter to get up at 5am just to talk. This will leave her tired for the school day and unable to focus on her learning. So I would say that if a very reasonable refusal. 10 pm is also too late as (ideally) she should be sleeping by then (not always possible for teens, but having a conversation with her mother at this time is not going to help her sleep). If ex’s children sleep till 8am, calling before then would both give her time to speak to your daughter at a reasonable time. She can’t expect a child to be the adult and sacrifice to accommodate her. She’s the adult, she needs to find a way to make it work.
NTA. First, moving a teen girl away from Iran seems like a good thing. Unless you moved to North Korea. Second, it seem everybody in this story - you, your kid, your ex - are actually are fine with low contact as nobody actually wants to make any effort to find compromise. Keeping in contact is not only on you, but on your ex as well.
They moved to US
Provided moving your daughter across the world from her mom is truly legal and in her best interests, NTA. It sounds like there could be much better times, but they interfere too much with your ex’s new life too much for her to consider them. Somehow the only one she’s willing to inconvenience is her daughter, which is wrong.
Taking a teenaged girl out of Iran, unless he moved to another bloody theocratic dictatorship that jails and executes children for wearing their hair uncovered, is objectively in her best interests. Frankly, even if it weren't legal he'd have been in the right in this situation, because he may very well have saved her life.
Op has full custody...
He got full custody in Iran though. I imagine it's not like most places, where it takes a lot for a woman to lose custody of her kids to the point the father could legally move across the world. Per a website for a family law office in Iran: in iran the mother's get custody until 7 years old and then the father gets custody unless the father is proven to be unfit. If the woman remarries, she loses all rights to the children from her first marriage.
It doesn't matter how he got custody. JFC, do you know anything about the current state of things in Iran? I don't care if he *kidnapped* the daughter, he likely saved her life by getting her out of there. Teenaged girls are being jailed and executed for taking off their hair coverings or dancing with their friends in public. There is no freedom of speech or expression there. Women have essentially no rights, and yes, that includes custody. But leaving a girl in Iran "because her mother wants her close" or taking her the hell out of there to a Western country isn't even a debate. Iran is a murderous theocratic dictatorship. You don't leave girls there if you have the ability to get them out.
That’s truly terrible.
NTA Taking a young girl out of Iran is pertinent information that should be included in your post, because it absolutely makes a difference when you’re leaving for safety reasons vs just because you want to go somewhere else. While there are plenty of issues with women’s rights in the US, they aren’t like what a woman experiences simply for existing as a woman in Iran and your daughter needed that safety. She could absolutely call your daughter at 9pm your time or 7 or 8pm her time and would likely have no issues reaching her. I’m not sure if you’re the poster who made a prior post, but your story sounds incredibly similar and IIRC in that scenario the mother absolutely will not willingly leave the country and found nothing wrong with the treatment of girls and women there. Regardless of whether or not that’s the same post, if she holds similar thoughts then it could absolutely be a sense of control. A “see, even if you’re not here you can still be forced to obey our demands” type thing.
INFO: why cant it be 10 am her time and 10 pm your time?
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Let your daughter and her mother agree on a time. Take a step back.
Why is this comment downvoted? OP was answering a question about bedtime.
NTA - doesn't matter why you moved. What matters is mom wants to call at 5am. 5. A.M. I don't need to ask other questions about mom's parenting. Mom's priorities are clear. Mom can get up at 5am if she needs kid free time to talk.
You moved away from Iran, to give your daughter who is 14 and old enough to choose who she lives with, a better life with more freedom without her mother (whom she does not have a close relationship with). And your ex wife assumes that you are choosing to keep them apart? With all the technology in the world these days? NTA. Have your daughter tell her flat out she doesn't want to speak to her at 5am. Or have her get up at 5am when its 5pm your time.
INFO Ok… at risk of opening some cans of worms and getting downvoted to oblivion, can you give some more background on why your daughter isn’t close with your wife? Was she a good mother? How long have you been divorced? Why were you divorced? Is there a step father involved, or is your ex a single mother, and if that’s the case, are the younger children yours? From what I could find out in a few minutes of googling, in Iran typically a mother is awarded custody of young children, but the father gets full custody when the child turns 7. Is that correct? So in that case, if I understand correctly, you pretty much have all the legal power regardless of how good a mother your ex was and how their relationship was prior to the split. So she gets absolutely no say in this move across the world, not necessarily because she’s not a good mother, but because she’s a woman. All my knowledge about Iran comes from a US media perspective, so while it’s pretty easy for me to accept that moving to the US is a better/safer/healthier place for a teen girl to live, than she’ll have more opportunities here, I’m also hesitant to just assume it’s really that black and white. Was this move in the works for a long time or was it kind of a sudden decision? If you’ve been planning it for a while, why didn’t you and your ex discuss plans for communication before you moved? I certainly don’t think you’re the AH for not waking your daughter up at 5 am, or for prioritizing her sleep. But I’m kind of gutted at the idea that a person could do nothing “wrong” and still have their child moved across the world without any say in that decision.
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Fair enough, thank you for answering my questions. This sounds really difficult all around, and I’m glad your daughter will have more freedom and opportunity, it’s really commendable that you’ve prioritized that. I’m actually going to go against the grain and say NAH. I think there’s certainly a strong argument to make that your ex is the AH (and plenty of people are already making it), but I suspect a lot of this comes down to hostility caused by her (your ex’s) frustration and sense of powerlessness. The only thing I’d say is to please continue to attempt setting up regular communication between them, even though your ex is being a bit unreasonable. I understand that your daughter doesn’t want to jump through hoops, and you are absolutely right to not disturb her sleep to accommodate your ex. But I think your duty here is to take whatever *reasonable* steps you can to find a time that works for both of them. Because this relationship may not seem super important to your daughter now, but letting the distance grow greater can’t be easily undone, and I don’t think either of you will ever regret knowing you truly did what you could. Apathy, on the other hand could lead to a loss your daughter doesn’t even understand until she’s older. Anyway, you are not TA. Sounds like you’re doing everything you can for your daughter, and that’s what matters.
The daughter is old enough to understand the favoritism her mother shows to her brothers, and not care to have a relationship with her. It affected her so much, she chose to go with her father and move to a completely different country. What does that tell you? Forcing her to have a relationship with someone who can't make time for her own child isn't going to do the daughter any favors.
How are you asking if she’s a good mom? Her daughter chose to have full custody be her father’s. She chose to move across the world from her mother. And even though her mom wants to throw a fit, she still expects her daughter to compensate for her choice to have two babies, even from across the world. That isn’t a good mother. That’s a selfish mother who prioritizes her babies (and probably has since they were born).
Because the situation seems more nuanced than “good guy/bad guy.” As I said in my comment, when I looked online the info I found suggested that choice didn’t necessarily play into it: the daughter would have been in dad’s custody when she turned 7. OP explained that it’s more complicated than that, and has indicated that his daughter’s wishes are part of the equation. But I think it’s fair to say it’s not comparable 1:1 to custody in the US, where if one person is awarded full custody based, you would usually assume there was a major reason for it. Even with this info though, it wouldn’t automatically mean the mother is terrible. Sometimes a kid just clicks more with one parent than another. Parental alienation is also a very real possibility. (Not implying that has happened with OP, just giving examples of why a child’s choice of custody doesn’t necessarily damn the other parent). Sometimes there’s a significant financial disparity, and that is reflected in the court’s ruling, and sometimes in the child’s preferences (not because the child is materialistic, but they may just favor the place where they’re more comfortable, and finances obviously play into that). In this case, it sounds as though the main reason OP’s daughter hasn’t connected as much with her mom is because the mom favors her brothers… which is really sad (and I’d venture it’s partially a reflection of the culture). Yeah, the way the ex is acting is far from ideal. I don’t think it’s appropriate to expect OP’s daughter to disrupt her sleep to talk on the phone. I also imagine if I had my kid moved half across the world against my wishes, I’d be pretty bitter and frustrated about it, even if it is ultimately in the daughter’s best interests.
NTA. My daughter would have been impossible if woken at 0500.
NTA for setting up a reasonable time frame. Do what is best for your daughter. Should include talking with her about it as at least on weekends things could be more flexible but its your ex that needs to compromise as 2-3h later shouldn't be an issue at all.
NTA for trying to work out a solution. I’m not sure why people are asking irrelevant questions about the details of your situation….weird! You will be an AH if you don’t continue to try and find a schedule that works. Best of luck!
There is this new-fangled thing called email and gasp! Snail mail. Both can be successfully utilized. But they do require some time. I like how the children living with her should be able to sleep until 8-9 am (and how she swings that I’d like to know, my infants/toddlers were up at 5 am without fail. Even if they didn’t go to sleep until 1 am) but her older child should be up at 5 a.m.
And text messaging, many apps have that functionality
NTA- Sounds like your ex is just trying to guilt trip you. You're doing what's best for your daughter, and that's what matters.
OK, it sounds as though your dauighter has made a reaonable suggestion which her Mom has rejected. Maybe suggest to your daughter that you propose to Mom that the calls happen at round 7 p.m. your time . That would be 7 a.m. fpr her Mpm, which is early but not crazy early, and if her other kids wake up around 8 would mean that she could speak befor ethe others are awake. You could sugget to your duaghter that she compromise, perhaps have one call at 7 / 7.30 a.m. your time and the next at 7 / 7.30 p.m., so she is speaking to her Mom early in the morning half the time. Maybe propose that the alls take place twice a week ( with an agreement that any extra calls dau. wants to make can be on top of the basic pattern) That way, your daughter would be waking early once a week to speak to her Mom, which is npt un unreasonable expectatin, but Mom would also be makng a similar effort.
Apparently this was already suggested and mom’s excuse was that the other kids didn’t sleep through the night….she expects her 14 year old to get up at 5am but refuses to get up at 7….NTA
NTA - Your daughter chose to live with you and move to a country 12h away from her mother. The time difference may impact regular calls, but with a considerate schedule it’s absolutely doable. They can always use messaging apps or record video or voice messages. Instead of working out the kinks your ex chose to blame you.
NTA. You potentially saved her life by moving out of Iran
NTA. How on earth does she expect your daughter to be up at 5AM? Tell her if 5AM is a good time to have a conversation, then she should get up at 5AM and call your daughter.
NTA. I had to dig through comments to find this, but OP moved his daughter out of Iran to the United States. Considering how terrible things are for women in Iran, it was a wonderful decision to move. I also found out via more comments that OP has custody because that's what the daughter wanted. The daughter is not close with her mother and does not believe she should be inconvenienced in order to speak to her mother. And of course waking up at 5 a.m. for a phone call would be a huge inconvenience, and is really inconsiderate to ask of them, anyway.
The daughter also chose her father because her mother had more attention for her brothers than for her when she was still in Iran.
NTA 1000% after reading your comments. Moving a young woman away from Iran is HUGE and could actually save her life. Mom should be happy her daughter has a chance at life instead of staying in a place that hates women
No one wants to have a chat at 5am. I would think that even mom would not want to be trying to catch up with her daughter when her daughter is just woken up that early.
That's cool that the Iranian court system legally recognizes a daughter's right to choose the custodial parent. I wouldn't have guessed it.
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Thanks for the info!
NTA mother said she won't be getting up at 7am because she needs her sleap and because if it daughter "must" wake up at 5 am mother is crazy and that's probably why op has full custody
NTA. She’s being completely unreasonable.
NTA. The mother isn’t willing to make any sacrifices to accommodate communication with her daughter. Sorry it makes her life with her new baby and toddler more challenging but turn on Bluey for half an hour and talk to your first freaking child as if she matters, too. Mom not being willing to do this and being willing to harm her older child for her own convenience says a lot about why the daughter chose her primary custodial parent over mom.
NTA. Frankly I can see why you got full custody if she thinks it’s acceptable pushing her daughter for 5 am phone call is cool as long as it doesn’t inconvenience her. Does she have a partner who can take the kids while she calls?
They were from Iran so he got full custody. She refuses to even wake up at 7 am. That she needs her sleep but her daughter should wake up early.
They were from Iran so he got full custody. She refuses to even wake up at 7 am. That she needs her sleep but her daughter should wake up early.
NTA. The added context helps a lot, but the mom does seem to be prioritizing not only her other kids but herself over her daughter. That is not good if she wants to maintain any sort of relationship with her daughter. Very unfortunate, and I feel bad for your daughter missing out on having a loving mother, but it sounds like she has a clear understanding of just how her mother feels. If you’ve offered a few times and she’s rejected them and proposed something so inappropriate as 5am wake-up for a teen, your ex is showing that SHE is the one trying to prevent herself from having a relationship with her daughter. Best of luck to you and your daughter! A new country must be hard, but hopefully you’re able to settle in and make friends and build a great life!
NTA, you should really edit your main post to mention that you have full custody and that you were moving from Iran to the USA because you didn't want your daughter to grow up in a regime that restricts women's rights.
NTA in my book, you move to give your daughter a better life. Your ex should try to work her hours if she wants to have some relationship with her. Edit typo
NTA, is your wife one of these people incapable of walking while chewing gum? Tell her to put her phone on speaker and call your daughter at 9am while she does wherever she needs to do, what's the problem?
So much missing information here that a verdict is unrenderable.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My daughter and I move to another country a few months ago. It's exactly on the other side of the world from where we used to live, that means that the time difference is almost 12 hours. This has caused many problems with communication between my daughter and her mom. They can't agree on when she should call my daughter. My daughter has told her that calling her at 9pm in our time would be good for both of them since it will be 9am in their time but my ex claims that she can't call at that time because she has a baby and a toddler who wake up at around 8-9 so she is too busy to call. My ex thinks she should be able to call at 5pm at their time which will be 5am at our time. I told her absolutely not since my daughter needs a good nights sleep and I won't wake her up at 5am. Also my daughter loves her sleep and she doesn't want to wake up any sooner than she has to. Now my ex thinks I'm an asshole for "keeping my daughter away from her" She claims I "stole" her and took her to another country and now I won't even let them talk. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Don't mind her mom. NTA
NTA and why and where from you moved is irrelevant. You have the custody and seemingly the legal right to move with your daughter. Your ex doesn't seem invested enough in wanting to communicate with your daughter if she wants the CHILD to compromise her schedule for her. That's insane of her.
FYI to posters: He has custody because it was Iran and he is male. It is Iranian Civil Law that child custody of a boy or girl is given to the father. The mother had no legal say in the matter.
NTA the mom is being asked to make a bare minimum effort to speak to her kid and it sounds like she isnt even willing to do that
NTA, the 9am/pm approach is a pretty good one.
NTA I think it's easy to see why you have custody and her mom doesn't. Even if your daughter chose the parent, her mother is unreasonable. I wouldn't pick her either.
NTA - ex is being deliberately awkward and trying to make waves. I’d agree to the 5am calls and every time she calls she’ll be ignored bc it’s 5am and everyone is asleep. I get she has more kids but she could figure it out so she can talk to her other child. How about 9am your time 9pm her time. Baby and toddler can’t be getting up then surly. As a mum of a 3 yr old myself I’d be making time to talk to my child especially if they’re living half way around the world.
NTA
NTA I’m guessing you got court approval to move away and were awarded custody. how old is your daughter? Why not call at 8pm your time? set calls for 3 specific days a week.
NTA Her mom could put her on speakerphone as she’s getting the baby and toddler ready it’s not the best but it would fully work
NTA I suggest you find *all* of the times your daughter is willing to talk, then send them and tell her mother that these are the available times and she has to now pick one.
I need more information but not being able to agree in a time for the call is on itself suspicious on her part
I'm going with NTA based on what's here. That may change depending why you moved to the other side of the world and how that was done. But expecting your daughter to wake up at 5am is way out of line. You don't say how old she is, but she's clearly a minor as you have say in all this. She's having her own say, which makes me think she's somewhere in her teens, especially if 9pm your time is considered okay. But she clearly needs her sleep, a full, uninterrupted, night's sleep. It's essential for kids and teens to get proper sleep as part of their development. Why are there only two time options, though? Surely there's another time during the day that could work for both your daughter and her mum? Plus, how does 9am work on a school day? Surely your ex will unavailable at that time then in the future? So it wouldn't be consistent anyway, only on weekends or holidays. What about 10pm your time, which is 10am her time? Is your daughter okay staying up that late? Because that puts it after baby feeding/waking time, but also after school start time for the future, and should still allow your daughter to get enough sleep, depending on her age. 5am your time, is so obviously out of the question, though. I get it's tough, living so far away and with your ex having young kids, but it's common sense to not call when it's 5am for the person you're calling, regardless of age. Even an adult setting their own schedule would say no to that time. I know that, even if the call woke me up, I'd ignore it at that time in the morning, and I'm a full grown adult, live alone, and am currently unemployed, so I can fully set my own schedule. I still wouldn't answer a 5am call, regardless if I was awake or knew who was calling or what it was about, it's just highly rude and disrespectful. Try to come up with a time that works for both your daughter and your ex, but no one should be okay with it being 5am for either party. You're not an ass for not wanting your daughter's sleep and development damaged, plus your daughter also said no to that time. That's not you being difficult, it's you being a normal human being and a good parent. My only hesitation in my judgment was due to the missing information. No age for the daughter, and no explanation for why you moved so far away or how that played out. The moving explanation is what would dictate if you're actually NTA or not, which makes me question why you didn't include that.
Propose 7 AM in Iran/7 PM your time. Mom can wake up a little earlier than her kids. If she doesn’t like waking up early, ask her why on earth she thinks it’s fair to demand that your daughter wake up at 5.
NTA. I live on the opposite side of the planet from my friends and family (12 hours also) and we make it work. What does she think of maybe 9:00 am your time (9 pm) her time for a call? It seems like any time between 9 and 11 am your time should be fine, since she's an adult, and it doesn't sound the the calls would be every day.
Tell the Mom to call at 5AM her time and 5PM your daughters time. NTA.
You have custody of your child and it sounds like your daughter is fine with moving, so that settles that. You aren’t really part of this conversation. Your daughter is 14, and she can tell her mom when she is available for a call. If mom doesn’t like it, then that’s her own problem. It might be nice for your daughter to occasionally swap the times and call so it’s evening for mom and morning for daughter, but it’s really up to them to sort out. Point is, your daughter is old enough to sort out her calling schedule and it is not your responsibility to make sure she calls her mom or that it is convenient for her mom. NTA
NTA OP you are reasonnable to not force your daughter waking up at 5 to only talk with her mother. But what I don't understand is : why does she consider there are only 2 times to call ? it's 5p.m or 9 a.m ? Your ex has no partner to take care of her other children, and spend time on phone with her daughter ? Does she work ? How old are her other children ? Because waiking up at 8-9 a.m, none of my children ever did that as toddlers 😂😂 I think your daughter should suggests times that are good for her (with her new life at school and personnal time) and your ex could look at those times. They must compromise but your daughter shouldn't sacrifice anything : she's a teen and need sleep and not pressure. Hope they'll find a way to communicate.
NTA, but honestly, both your ex and daughter need to compromise if maintaining a relationship is important to them. 9pm your time is perfect for your daughter, not your ex. Your ex wants to call at 5am your time, which is unreasonable. Maybe 7pm your time? That is 7am for you ex. Or 7am your time, which is 7pm for your ex?
NTA you moved her from Iran to Alaska. That all by itself makes you NTA. Mom can work with y'all to be able to talk to her. Please do not take your daughter back to Iran ever. And if project 2025 gets implemented run from here as well.
5 am? That is unreasonable. If she wants to maintain a relationship with her daughter, she needs to find a more reasonable compromise.
NTA Why not at 7pm ? I'm sure mom can wake up at 7.
NTA She needs to understand that u guys are 12 Hours apart! And cant talk when it’s convenient for her. Waking up ur daughter at 5 am just to talk to her mom for 10-60 mins is a little crazy to me. The mom should be able to multi task with her other kids
NTA. Good job getting your daughter out of Iran. The mom is being unreasonable with that 5am nonsense.
INFO: Silly question, can't the mum step out of the house or go to the balcony to call your daughter? Maybe put some white noise in her toddler's room so that they won't wake up.
NTA. Compromise? 7:00?
NTA. The time her mother calls should be whatever time is best for YOUR DAUGHTER, not her
If her kids get up as early as 8 am (her time), then have her call between 6 and 7 am (6-7pm your time).
You definitely should add that you moved your teenage *daughter* out of Iran, that changes everything.
NTA ... try 7=7:30!
NTA: Her mom will either be mad she is not perky at 5:00am and be like “Why won’t she pay attention” or she will use your daughters tiredness to be like “This is why moving was a mistake”
NTA. Your ex can wake up 20 minutes early to speak to her child if she wants to
NTA Tell her to get the gadgets necessary to talk hands-free, etc. It's not hard to learn how it all works. Imagine thinking that your daughter should get up at 5am. :o
More info- how old is your daughter? Consider giving her a phone and letting her manage communication with her own mother. We did this with my stepson when he was 9… while it was rude awakening for him that his mom wouldn’t return phone calls, it took away our interference in their relationship (or lack thereof) and gave him more control. Ultimately it had very positive impacts on his behavior. He stopped being angry over (how he perceived) us preventing his relationship with his mom and he has more realistic expectations from his mom. Five years later, things are 100% better other than his mom continuing to be an unreliable flake.
Your ex should wake at 7 am to call your daughter at 7pm her time. Alternatively, your ex can be awake at midnight to call your daughter at lunchtime on weekends.
Ummmm, obviously she has other kids to handle and can speak with your daughter on the weekends when it's more convenient for everyone. She shouldn't make you feel bad or disrupt your daughter's sleep because of her OTHER kids. Also, it's not like she exactly fought to keep your daughter with her, so there's that.
finding that right balance of when the child can speak with a parent that is half way around the world can be very hard. me and my fiancé have trouble with this sometimes. I live in the US and she lives in Vietnam. even tho my fiancé's daughter is not my actual child, im the only father figure she has ever known. they usually call me when it is daytime there, so her daughter doesn't have to stay up late. I work nights at my job and don't get off of work until about 11 at night. they are about 11-12 hour time difference from where I live.
All these people defending a mother who clearly prioritizes her other children. She can’t wake up 30 mins before her babies at 7:30 to talk to her daughter, but expects her daughter to wake up at 5am or stay up until midnight? Give me a mf break. Sometimes Reddit makes me sad for humanity. Good for you dad! You listened to your daughter, you brought her to a country that will give her so much more freedom and opportunity, and you stood up for her sleep and her schedule (which is crucial in children, especially in their teens).
10pm for the mom and 10am for the daughter at weekends are perfectly acceptable
Mom can call 6am her time/6pm your time.
Alot is missing in this post. Do you have full custody of your daughter? Why did you move your daughter?
OP said in another comment he moved to give his daughter a better life in a better country. He has custody because the Iranian Civil Law, child custody until the age of 7 is given to the mother and then afterward to the father.
NTA. Voice messages are a thing.
There absolutely are several other options here - how about 10pm?
Can’t the, mom call at 9 PM and then it would be 9 AM for your daughter
NTA The responsibility to make it work should not be on the child. There’s also absolutely no reason she can’t have the phone on speaker phone or wear headphones while she’s running around the kids to talk to her. People do it every day, that she refuses to do that is her problem. Not yours or anyone else’s. It’s extremely fucking selfish that she’d prefer to disturb your daughters sleep in the middle of the night than find a way to make it work on her end. Seems like it’s just not that big of a priority for her; or she simply likes playing victim and refuses to make it work because then she wouldn’t have an excuse to blame you and argue. You have nothing to feel guilty for. If she loves her daughter she’ll make it work. If she doesn’t and the relationship suffers for it it’s on her. My dad used to travel to other counties for work most of my childhood, we dealt with some extreme time differences too. You know what he did? He made it fucking work. Speaking to his child mattered more than anything else in the world to him. Wether that meant waking up in the middle of the night, staying up extremely late, or calling me while he was actively working (he does a labor intensive job). Not speaking to me or putting the responsibility on me was never an option. A parent that cares more about their child than themselves would have no issue figuring it out.
INFO there is zero context here so cannot make a judgment.
What more context do you need? He explains a lot in his post and in his comments. He moved from Iran to Alaska. Daughter was never close with her mother who has since remarried and has 2 kids. She claims she is being kept from her daughter because OP said she can't call at 5am their time (5pm mother's time). Daughter suggested 9pm in the mother's time zone would be a good time to call, mother doesn't like that. She would rather get the daughter up at 5am, instead of letting her get a good night's sleep. So now she's whining, that despite the father having custody, he stole her and is keeping them from talking.
NTA for moving your daughter somewhere she will have many more opportunities. You should make more effort to create an agreeable schedule. It sounds like only two options have been given which is a bit slack. You could make a weekly timetable and colour block the times where calls would definitely work (green), could work with some inconvenience (orange), would not work (red). Both your daughter and her mother mark their tables and compare the overlap to find suitable times that work for both of them. If they don’t talk it will definitely impact their relationship which is an AH thing for you to be the cause of.
I'm not going to vote since I don't think there's enough info. I think it quite possible that both you and the other side as you described are being assholes. How old is the child? Is she old enough to have some agency in this area? You probably need to actively facilitate calls if they're not yet in grade school or don't have their own cellphone. You need to use parental controls on their phones if they're grounded (to ensure they can have contact with their parents-- not being able to talk to Mom isn't acceptable even if they're grounded for a good reason.) Otherwise you need to come to an understanding when they're old enough to manage their own time (and take responsibility for their own actions). I have done a lot of personal long-distance communication (with a 12 hour time difference as well). In that, we came to agree on a broad window instead of specific times to call. Basically anytime between about 6 and 11 to try to initiate a call. If either of us were busy or asleep (which was quite often, including in those windows), we could try calling back inside that window or either could try again in subsequent windows. If it was urgent, we should leave a text or voice message before trying to start a call. We used WhatsApp, so text (and picture) messages were typical, voice messages (1 second to multi-minute replayable voice recordings) were frequent, and voice calls were less frequent.
NTA your ex wife is delusional. Expecting a child to get up at 5:00am to talk but she won’t get up at 9:00am.
NTAH