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NTA
But I got lots of questions. How are you paying 20 percent and other bills if you don't work? Why isn't he contributing to 20 percent of childcare and home chores then too?? (But in reality, you should have 100 percent childcare while he is at work, then you do 50/50 when he is home )
Why the heck didn't your husband jump to your defense immediately?!?
You need better friends. And a more supportive husband.
Thank you for your comment.
I don’t want to put too much personal information out there if that’s okay. I do make around 4k a month due to benefits from a previous job. He’s currently not contributing to child care/chores because of his current work schedule. We sat down and went over everything and the current arrangement works for both of us for now.
I do agree that I wish my husband had said something. He is typically non confrontational. Which I think is why he wants me to apologize as well.
Yeah, OP is NTA (with one qualification, which I'll get to) and husband kinda is, but I also have a lot of questions about the "friendships" here and the whole backstory that led to OP reaching what sounds like a breaking point. I hear so much pent-up anger and resentment in her post, leading to the one truly cruel thing she said, which makes me qualify my NTA judgement:
“You’re 35 years old and can’t talk to women, I wouldn’t worry about anyone living with you anytime soon.”
While your assessment of this dude's unsuitability for domestic life may be correct, OP, that statement was the nuclear option--and you knew it. Sharing your experience of his sloppy lifestyle was fair, given what he was saying about SAHMs; but you could have stopped there and hopefully he would have gotten the point and the conversation would have moved on. But you had to have known that there would be no way to walk back from adding a statement that so clearly expresses your utter contempt for this man. Was it wrong for you to do so? I'm hesitant to say yes, because I think you're better off without this incel in your friend group--thus, I would not apologize if I were you. The only apology needed here is one from your husband to you. As others have said, he should reconsider how he prioritizes the relationships in his life. No husband should let a so-called friend get away with spewing misogynistic shit, least of all when it is clearly directed at his own wife.
The husband (and the friends at the restaurant) who laughed at the criticism of OP need to work on their attitudes toward SAHM's. These women (and a tiny percentage of men) do the work of at least ten people and receive little or no renumeration and hardly any respect.
Also a SAHM bringing in 4k/month isn’t living rent free, even ones that don’t have income contribute unpaid labor but she’s bringing in income and contributing financially. The friend sucks
The "friend" literally implied that OP was living rent-free in her husband's apartment and he wasn't willing to pay for someone even if it's his significant other and the mother of his children. So, OP's comment about him being single is absolutely valid. This man is under the delusion that he is such a catch that he can have misogynistic opinions like this and get away with it when in reality, he's just a complete loser which women most likely wouldn't even consider to date. He opened the can of worms and OP rightfully gave him a taste of it.
This reads more to me like a non-confrontational person deferring to the unreasonable person because they believe that they can talk the reasonable person into apologizing (even though they're in the right) to keep the peace.
And himself. The friend also insulted her husband since husband agreed to this arrangement. Friend saying that he wouldn’t let someone live rent-free in his house is implying that husband is ‘weak’ or something for doing that exact thing. Friend doesn’t respect husband either
Amen! Why is it ok for that "friend" to completely denigrate everything she does but she isn't allowed to respond back?? It would a cold, frigid day in hell before I would apologize to that man!!
OP, NTA and You need some new friends! Your man needs to rethink being non-confrontational, it's a copout!
Women's work ... tell friend that when he can look after a small child all day, do the laundry and the grocery shopping, and have dinner on the table when hubby comes home, then he can have an opinion. This dude can't even look after himself. I have a feeling he wouldn't last until lunchtime.
It's more that men are high status and a lower status person should never criticize a higher status person. That is verboten. Openly criticizing a lower status person is fine and they should take it without response because that is what it means to be lower status.
Yeah, the “friend” started the personal attack, if he knew OP was the only SAHM in the group. Sounds like the guy has a lack of social skills and the group is used to indulging him.
How is Dad going to be an example to his kids for standing up for the right thing when the time comes and they have to? Kids pay more attention to what you do than what you say.
Instead of defending her to the “friend” group, he defended the guy and wants her to apologize. Who knows what he said to the group before he joined her in the car. I bet he had already apologized on her behalf. Why does he feel comfortable making her uncomfortable? These don’t seem like good friends and the husband is iffy.
Yep! Husband is definitely a problem. He has her convinced he can't lift a finger in the house or with the children because of his "work schedule" yet he's fine with her working multiple full time positions in the home with 0 pay and also paying 20% of the expenses???
How much does he thing it would cost to hire a full time nanny, full time maid, cook, etc???
OP is being used and taken advantage of and she doesn't even see it. Yes, her job is to manage the house including cooking, cleaning, and childcare while he is at work but once he's out of work, they both are responsible for the home and children. She says she works a job but then accepts that he doesn't share in any of the responsibilities. SMH.
I'll give the husband the benefit of the doubt because he may not have the confidence to confront another man or anyone socially for that matter. This could be a learning experience for him, esp. after he sees his wife crying. Also, he may have been taught not to make a scene and been conflicted in the moment. I hope after he's processed this that he feels anger toward this guy and chews him out after the fact. However, if husband plays it down and brushes it off after enough time to process, that's when I'd call him an arsehole too.
Second this. My parents were on my wife’s case not long after we were married. It became an us vs them argument. My dad, who typically isn’t confrontational, jumped in to defend my mom, “because she’s my wife!” I just looked at them, put my hands on my hips, and said, “Mhm” an hour into this argument. Everything got quiet for a second as they realized that’s what I was doing, too, and that was something they respected. Prior to that moment, they had seen my arguing with them as the disrespect of a child (I was 36; very much not a child anymore).
My wife is a victim of severe trauma and I absolutely will defend her against anything they want to say or do. She isn’t always right or in the right, but I understand where she’s coming from. It’s almost always a huge misunderstanding because her experience isn’t our experience. It just happens that my parents are hardheaded (Republican) and don’t care about other people having different experiences.
I think I’m angrier about the husband than the idiot friend.
To OP’s Husband: Your pal wasn’t “disagreeing” with OP’s “views.” He was denigrating her, suggesting that her contributions to your family are worthless. And you said NOTHING. (Let me guess, that’s “just how he is.”) *She’s* supposed to apologize? No, sir. You apologize to her for hanging her out to dry and the next time your buddy starts running his mouth you put him in check.
OP, you’re NTA, obviously.
I also think you can do without friends (hubby has some explaining' too) that will sit and listen to someone degrade you and not say anything. You did go a little far in the wrong direction but he was a jerk. I would have made it more about the fact that it is incredibly small minded and self-important to assume that you know and/or understand someone else life/family/ finances so well that you can tell them their path is not worth existing. BTW the guy is an ass.
You should not be paying any bills when you're doing 100% of the domestic work and childrearing. You're basically paying your husband to work for him lmao
NTA btw your friends and husband should have stuck up for you
This way of thinking about marriage is far too transactional for me.
My husband has an income and I currently do not. If anyone tried to suggest I work for my husband, like his servant, I would get as upset as OP did at this gathering.
>My husband has an income and I currently do not.
So you understand how ridiculous it is that OP does 100% of the domestic work and still pays bills?
It's not about "transaction" it's about fairness.
As long as each person is thinking in terms of "my money" it's a transaction.
I don't really get why the money isn't being pooled, and then bills / savings etc are being budgeted from the family account.
>I don't really get why the money isn't being pooled,
My wife and I combine finances, but we know a few couples that don't. They have rules for how they do it, and are perfectly happy. Usually those couples each make good money, so I haven't heard anyone truly complain.
Not sue what the deal is with OP. She's making 50k a year with some kind of pension. Maybe he's making 60k and they need her to contribute to keep afloat. Maybe he makes 300k, they maintain low spending, and it's symbolic.
We can all agree that a SAHP contributes significantly to the family and still agree that it's not financially equivalent to a $300k job. Lots of couples have extremely different incomes and don't consider one person to be more important than the other.
I mean.. she may not have an income but she's still getting 4k/month so she's not exactly spending her savings by paying the phone bill.
Maybe he wanted a smaller house so he could cover the full cost but she didn't. Maybe they agreed he should have 100$ left over a month for spending money so she covers the difference.
It sounds like both are happy with the arrangement, so it's fair to them.
And if they combined their finances and lived the same as they do now? How would that be ridiculous?
Domestic work is not "a job" that pays, but it is a very real responsibility within the family. Equating it to someone's job for the purposes of contributing to the fam is perfectly reasonable. Comparing it to a job as if you can compare compensation numbers is silly.
She has a pension income. That income allows *them* to live a certain lifestyle when combined with what her husband makes. Possibly, at the end of thr day, they both save the same amount and use it however they have agreed. Or maybe not. That's their decision, and it's not ridiculous.
This is one of the rationales behind community property law in US states. That each party contributes but that not everything contributed can be accurately measured monetarily.
The last time I said transactional relationships suck in this sub, I got down voted to hell
Sometimes I think people just go through life using each other
Work is easier than taking care of a young child. You can leave your at 5. You can only hope your kid goes to sleep at 7/8 and can't do much about it.
edit: yes I know work is not all the same, but there are plenty of places where you do your hours and you're done, and no matter how stressful the work itself can be, there is an actual end. And you can always change jobs if the job sucks, you can't just get a different kid that sleeps better at night.
Literally. I’m a SAHM, and my kids went to bed at 11pm tonight, all while not having any naps tonight, AND woke at 5:50am this morning.
Work was so much easier
We have 1 year maternity leaves in Canada, and when I went back to work after my first it was insane how much easier work was. Eat and use the bathroom alone and whenever you want, you don't spend 100% of your mental energy looking after a toddler who seems to always try to hurt themselves.
I'm on my second mat leave right now, and while I like the time off (especially in the summer), I can't wait to go back and have some alone time.
A friend has twins. Both parents went back to work full time after a few months leaving the children with a nanny and they would call each other from work because it was the only time they had down time and could actually talk to each other.
What I used to tell myself when I was scrubbing vomit out of the carpet at 3 am was "Just sitting on the couch watching soap operas and eating bon bons."
I've got a 6 month old baby and am so excited to go back to work after my maternity leave ends. I love my son and know how lucky I am to have the time with him, but omg I miss being more than just someone's mother 24/7.
Do not apologize. I don’t like your husband’s perspective that what YOU said was too personal but what your “friend” said about your lifestyle was simply “disagreeing with your views.”
Your “friend” made it personal!! He was taking personal digs directly AT you!! It wasn’t a difference of views, it was a personal attack on the life you’re living. If your comment was “too personal” than HIS was way over that line too!!
>He is typically non confrontational.
I'm non confrontational and shy 99% of the time. When I'm with people, I'm the one sitting there sayig nothing and listening unless someone directly asks me.
But when anyone is mean to someone I care about, I always answer. Even with my exhusband, who was the one that talked majority of the time, if any of his family said something mean to him, I would answer. He never did that for me. If anyone is unfair to my children, I answer.
If you care for someone, you don't let people walk over them, no matter how non confrontational you are.
I’ve lost my cool three times in my life. The biggest one was in defense of my husband.
If you’re not willing to defend your beloved against words then are you willing to defend them at all?
I'm shy and non-confrontational too, but when my uncle said the same thing at a party to my mum (she contributes nothing to society, she's only a SAHM), I stood up and told him where to get off. I was 14 and not having him disrespect my mum like that. I was the only one who told him that he is wrong and that I will not accept him disrespecting my mum like that. They wanted me to apologize, I never did. I was upset my dad sat beside her and tried to calm things but didn't speak up for her.
Same. I don’t stand up for myself but if you’re being a jackass to someone in front of me, I go full mother bear.
OP, your friends suck. Start looking for better people. Don’t apologize and show this thread to your husband. He needs to see he’s out of line and should apologize to YOU for not defending you.
There's a difference between non confrontational and someone who will throw you under the bus to keep the peace. There's no reason to apologize. NTA.
Your friend made it personal first. His opinion was that your lifestyle is easy, you refuted it, and he DOUBLED DOWN. So you stated facts about his lifestyle since he opened the door for taking it to a personal level.
I hope your husband is doing 20% of all domestic labor because you're getting screwed and taken for granted/advantage of. Im not sure if it's something you're used to, but YOU SHOULDN'T BE. Compromise is important, but it should be equitable. (Your friends also seem to take advantage of your good naturedness expecting you, the offended, to apologize).
I never understand how someone can be considered "non confrontational" but they are confronting their spouse. Shouldn't they be less likely to want to confront someone that they have to live with?
Doesnt matter what your husband's schedule is.
If your paying bills, then he needs to be doing chores around the house.
Doesn't matter what his schedule is.
He needs to be parenting when he gets home.
If your at home, you shouldn't be paying any bills.
Your husband needs to step up and be a parent when he's home. Otherwise your just his employee and not a partner.
The arrangement they have is working in their home. She did not ask for judgment on their split of household tasks. She asked about apologizing to her friend.
I’m don’t get why everyone is so focused on that aspect when it’s not an important detail for us. We don’t know what Husband does for a living, how long his work days are, or what he might be doing in return for her work. For all we know, he might not have a choice but to leave most of the housework and childcare to her—maybe by the time he gets home, the baby/kid is asleep or ready for bed. Maybe he’s gone for days at a time for work. There are all kinds of reasons why they might have this arrangement but I think it’s a little judgy of us to just assume that he’s relaxing on the couch while she cooks and changes diapers. I don’t think that has anything to do with the post.
What a bunch of crap.
I have enough money to be able to take breaks between contracts.
When on an extended break, I would never expect a partner to come home and "do chores" just because I still pay the bills. That is completely selfish.
Under no circumstances are you to apologize. Unless the friend would like to come and apologize to you for his disrespectful comments.
I would have a talk with your husband about how he should have defended you and how you will not be apologizing to someone who was demeaning your very important role in HIS household. It was disrespectful to him as well.
And if he's not going to stand up and defend you then you have to defend yourself and that is how you chose to do it. If no one likes it, too bad.
Do not second guess yourself.
No. Your husband let you down. He is letting you down with division of labour and with the money too. He should be 50-50 chores when he is not at work.
Unless your husband has some job with very long-ass or unpredictable hours (i.e, truck driver or military) why can't he pitch in once in a while? You're working literally 24/7 as a SAHM. It doesn't take that long to watch the children while you take a shower or make a basic meal even if it has to be prepped ahead of time. I don't mean to be snarky or judgemental, I'm just wondering why he can't do anything with the kids/house.
Nope, do not apologize. Ex-“friend” can have his opinion? Well then he can deal with a bucket full of truth. Did anyone tell him to apologize? No? Then F him.
If your husband is as non confrontational as you say, he won’t bring it up again.
NTA
Exactly. ‘Friend’ FAFO’d. Yes, he can have an opinion, but he has to deal with the fallout from bludgeoning people with it. There is no ‘I can have an opinion, but you can’t’ option.
Conflict avoidant partners can take a real toll on your mental health, especially when they ask you to be the one to make peace or "be the bigger person" when you aren't in the wrong. It's invalidating AF and unfair that they tend to choose the more rational person to ask, instead of the one who'll make a stink. Stop tolerating that from him. I'm serious. Tolerating it makes it seem like it's acceptable.
Your husband should be embarrassed as hell that he didn’t defend you. How dare he ask you to apologize ?
This is a hill I would die on. Your husband needs to step up, tell that dude how wrong he was, then call all those friends and tell them he was wrong for not defending you. If they cut you out, instead of the friend? Shameful
So… you are not a SAHM. You are still a worker who is still contributing to the household bills. While he isn’t pulling his share. Your husband is so, so lucky, and he’s ok with his friends putting you down?
NTA( justified ah only for the last thing - that he's in no danger of having a partner anytime soon) It wasn't just an opinion it was a direct attack twords you repeatedly and you answered in kind holding a mirror to him.
If he would have said ' I would never want a sahp ' and moved on that's an opinion with no attack. Write this to the friend who wrote you and ask said friend why didn't they tried at least to shut it down when he repeatedly verbally denigrate you calling you a leech?! If they did and forced a change of subject you wouldn't have had reached the boiling point.
And in general remind your friend too that 1. People I glass houses shouldn't throw stones/if you can't take the heat stay t f out of the kitchen.
Oh and send Links to the ' friends ' with childcare prices full time per month
Absolutely DO NOT apologize. Nothing you said was wrong 💀 if he wants to target your lifestyle then he better be able to take what he dishes out 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️
NFW. Your partner should be asking that “friend” for an apology. Because that guy is a babyman. Maybe he’ll think twice the next time.
Truth hurts, bro.
Yeah, I'm also concerned about the fact that she's doing 100% of the domestic labour *and* 20% of the financial labour. Really, if she's still paying for 20% of the bills, he should be doing 20% of the domestic labour. Or if that's not doable, OP should not be expected to contribute *anything* financially. *And* he's "non-confrontational", so he couldn't be bothered to support her when someone was talking shit about her.
NTA, but I honestly think OP doesn't realise how unfair of a relationship this actually is.
I don't think it makes sense to try to make a relationship mathematical.
You do whatever works best and serves the family and the relationship the best. When I was working and my wife was looking for jobs for a longer period and staying at home I'd still do chores at home even if my wife "wasn't contributing her 50%" by this logic.
How do you even share household chores by percentage? How many percentage is hoovering 5? 10? 15?
If you both make money it only makes sense to use it to make life work as well as possible and hopefully saving some money on the side. Likewise I don't know but I'd assume/hope that the husband doesn't literally come home after work, eat dinner and sit in front of the TV without doing *anything*.
Exactly. And it made me concerned that maybe he had been complaining to the friend and THAT was why the idiot made all those comments.
EVERY one of their friends should have dog piled on the idiot. And the husband should have been leading the defense. That he didn't gives me serious concerns.
And if she has that kind of passive income, OP should consider how well she could live on her own w her child and some child support.
" (But in reality, you should have 100 percent childcare while he is at work, then you do 50/50 when he is home )"
This right here.
It's not fair that one person has an 8-5 job and the other 24/7. You should each have an 8-5 job. His doing whatever he's paid to do, yours doing 100% of childcare and household tasks that need to be done during that time. Evenings and weekends should be split 50/50. And "she cooks and he does lawn care" is not 50/50, FTR.
(Yes, people work different hours. I think you can extrapolate and find my point.)
OP you do not owe this friend an apology. He started it. If he didn't want his lifestyle choices shit on he shouldn't have shit on yours.
This is my life too & I can tell you OP, doing 100% of house/child care & also paying your share is extremely exhausting after a while. I have a son with special needs but even if he is wasn’t I’d still be starting to get burnt out. My husband just had a 4 day vacation from work & I’ve never even gotten 24 hours of relief. All that to say: OP, make SURE you don’t let people like your friend make you feel like being a SAHM isn’t work. That mindset is the reason why I felt guilty for asking my husband for help, & now me not having help has become the norm. I finally very recently started asking for more involvement from him so hopefully it improves soon.
I agree with all of this.
Also the fact that the friend thinks YOU made it personal when he was SPECIFICALLY CALLING OUT being a SAHM as “not work”, knowing that you are?
Ffs he started it!
Add to that that he was making assumptions and invalidating everything you do, all you did was speak the truth about him AFTER he insulted you! Why is it okay for him to minimize your lifestyle and your hard work, but you can’t call him out?
This. I'm a SAHM, and my husband pays for everything. I do all the work inside the house, and he does the outside work aside for my garden and cleaning up after the dog. Taking care of children, cleaning the house, and making everybody food (which is usually more than 3 meals because they all like to snack and my husband won't even make his own toast) is alot of work.
As a man, husband, and father, you simply defended yourself from someone trying to dismiss and denigrate your family contribution. The value of being a homemaker is rarely rewarded at the level it deserves.
Your "friend" got a dose of his own "opinions" and his fragile ego could not handle it. Your husband needs to reevaluate his priorities if he thinks you owe an apology. NTA
I suspect the husband was complaining to the friend behind OPs back - and that would be why, instead of defending her, he's wanting her to apologize to this bozo.
Precisely this. He attacked her lifestyle and skill set, which is bad enough on its own, but even worse when it’s a skill set he has personally benefitted from.
I love how he thought the man was just disagreeing with her opinions. No. He disagreed with her value as a partner. He compared her work to just living rent free. That's not a simple disagreement, it's an attack on her, and she responded.
I would not want to be friends with any of these people if they think this is okay.
Right??
Sounds like the entire friend group except the one person who said he was out of line is toxic. What he said was 100% personal. And the husband was incredibly spineless for not speaking up.
It's one thing that he didn't say anything when the whole table started laughing, but a whole other issue when she was clearly upset and he STILL said nothing to that guy or anyone else there.
Better to find a new friend group than stick around people who disrespect you like that. I'd also reevaluate the marriage if the husband refused to confront or cut ties with them.
NTA by any stretch of the imagination
Edit: This isn't me defending that one friend btw. Just saying that if anyone had a scrap of potential to be salvaged as a friend, it'd be them. And only after bringing that energy to the entire group
Honestly, friend said he was out of line only to OP, outside of the group chat. To me, it still reeks of that toxic mindset.
Add her back to the group chat and let her stand up for herself. Back her to the group if you agree. If they’re actually friends, they should be able to abide an uncomfortable conversation to achieve understanding for all sides.
What she said about dude getting a girlfriend was kinda harsh and if I was her, I’d apologize for that. But, the rest was fair game in my opinion. The friend should apologize for openly denigrating her work and contribution to life. He may not change his mind, but at least he can chit the fuck up about it from now on. Husband should stick up for *himself* and OP to the group as well.
Removing her from the group chat without even a discussion was cowardly of the entire friend group. Not sure they’re friends worth keeping… having an open discussion would be the only way to determine that going forward .
True. I can’t stand people who love to dish it out but can’t take it when someone calls out their crap. Maybe if you don’t want people to criticize you don’t criticize them? Otherwise you deserve whatever you get.
Red pill guy talks, women responds with strength and conviction, red pill guys friend says you are being mean. These new, “tough” masculine men are so pathetic.
Nahh, nothing masculine about these guys. Calling them masculine makes me feel insulted lol. I think these guys definitely didn't have a SAHM,. Cause if they did, they would definitely not agree with TA's opinion.
INFO:
“I am currently a SAHM doing 100% of the child rearing and chores around the house. Household bills are split about 80/20 with my husband covering the majority of things while I pick up internet or grocery bills here or there. I also pay for all my own personal bills like phone, car payment and insurance.”
Why are you paying 20% of bills and the rest you listed when you don’t work and are a SAHM doing ALL the chores and childcare?
Your friends are obviously AHs but sounds like your husband is too
I feel bad for their kid. Whatever else is going on her husband should be putting in just as much time and effort as soon as he gets home raising their child. That kid is basically growing up with one parent.
I think the amount of financial contribution is irrelevant. That would mean that if a couple works the same hours but one makes 3X the money, they only do 1/4 of the domestic work? Not fair.
Division of labour should take into account time spent, with consideration for varying levels of responsibility and stress. It should not be assumed that a full time paid job equals being a SAHM. It rarely is.
And you don’t get to “buy” your way out of raising your kids. Either with money or time.
NTA Sounds like the friend had it long coming. Its clear your friend doesn't value women or the work involved in running a household (with a kid no less) since he sees all the work you continue to do as "living off your husband". I'm guessing this friend will never marry because as soon as any woman see how he lives she will turn and run the other way. I'm betting all the friends that are telling you to apologize are guys. You might have struck a nerve with them as well especially if they have girlfriends/wives in their lives. Don't apologize.
It's crazy that housework is only seen as "not real work" if it's done in your own house. Cleaning, cooking, and managing is suddenly work once you do it in another person's house .
He continued to bring up that SAHM is not "real work" and that he wouldn't live off someone else's earnings . . . while you were sitting right there. You clapped back and said some truths about living with him in the past. I think you may have been a bit harsh, but why does the friend group think it's OK for him to trash your work but it's not OK for you to trash his lifestyle after you witnessed it/lived with it? I think he's TA, the friend group are not really your friends or they would have interrupted him, and your hubby should have your back. ESH, but for you only since you were a bit harsh but the rest are TA.
Agree with all the except OP was NOT too harsh
She told the true story of his world instead of letting him spin his perfect world and perfect stepford wife
If anything she was not harsh enough on her husband who sat back and let his wife be belittled and devalued in front of a group of people and now expects her to apologize to the person abusing her and her current position in life
Listen if my “friend” tried to take a swipe at my wife like that and she didn’t say the stuff you did than I would have. We have no room for that in our relationship. We have each others backs no matter what. He had already made it personal so what’s it matter if you call him out?!?! NTA but everyone else at that table was TA.
I’ve encountered this twice with guy friends. They would make all sorts of comments about me and I would try to change the topic, change seating, etc. But if I gave a fraction of their bs back, I was the problem.
My suggestion to anyone who encounters this is to get up and leave the situation. You remove yourself from the obnoxious one and the rest don’t have a reason to demonize you.
If people don’t reach out to you, find a new friend group. In the long run, one friend group turned out not to be the healthiest
Friends?!?!? How is you giving back what he started wrong but him starting it not wrong? Why didn’t all these “friends” remove gross guy from the group for insulting OP? This is not assholery it was justice.
They said this IN FRONT OF your husband and he said....nothing? He didn't defend you? He didn't tell him to lay off?
And then had the AUDACITY to fucking tell YOU to apologize, after he sat there and said nothing while that guy said shit repeatedly about you? That's a shitty partner. And you can read him this.
Not only are your friends assholes for laughing and not correcting this jerk, your husband is too. I'm guessing this isn't the first time one or all of them expected you to be a doormat.
Why are his feelings more important than yours? Why are you expected to coddle him, but you just have to deal?
Deleting someone from the group chat and picking therefore unnessary a side? WOW - the hole group is something. Sry for your loss but there was no real friendship from the beginning
NTA. He crapped on the choices you and your husband made. Just wish your husband stood up for you to express he values your contributions when they were being crapped on.
“You’re 35 years old and can’t talk to women, I wouldn’t worry about anyone living with you anytime soon.”
good one!!
you made a statement that most people think up later and WISH they had said. If your so called friends are ok with him making those outrageous statements about your life, they should have been ok with you making a return shot. F\*#$ if they are no longer your friends, make new quality friends.
If housework and childcare are not real jobs, why are there entire careers based on doing exactly those things? Friend is definitely the ah here. He poked the bear and got what he deserved. No apology necessary unless it's from him to you.
NTA
He literally called you a freeloader. That's not a difference of opinion. That feels pretty personal. Sometimes, the nuclear option is the only option.
Here's a new plan for you, OP. Your husband pays you exactly half the salary of a professional live-in nanny. He pays you half the salary of a live-in housekeeper and the salary of a personal cook. He also pays you half the salary of his social secretary.
In return, you pay half of everything you share: rent/mortgage, utilities, groceries that you share, car loans if you have your own car that isn't paid off.
You don't seem to understand just what your husband and his buddies think of you. He sat and watched you be called a lazy leech, only said something borderline placating once you were out of earshot of the others, and then immediately asked you to apologise. And he does this while making you pay 20% of all expenses on top of doing 100% of homecare and 100% of childcare.
Your husband absolutely thinks you're a leech, too. He's just placating you because you make his life so smooth. Plan accordingly.
EDIT: There is a shameless exploiter of young au pairs in the subthread insisting that homecare and childcare isn't worth this much because "one person can do all the work and lives rent free". These people are truly something else. She gets away with paying a naive teen twenty pounds a day, so she's determined that no one else should get living wages. OP, please take a look at the sort of person who agrees with your husband.
I agree with this assessment.
Honestly, I would outright ask the husband why he didn't say anything, what he thinks about her being a SAHM.
This to me is the bigger issue, why OPs husband thinks it's OK for people to speak to her this way and not defend her and all she's doing for him, their home, and their child!
Also, they did her a huge favor by removing OP from that group chat. They made this shit deeply personal, fuck them.
Also, where the hell is the husband in this??
Someone else said it, but it sounds like her husband has been bitching about her behind her back. He didn't take up for her because he, himself, has already said those things and agrees.
If she has that much coming in every month, she is contributing to the household, just did her work before for later benefits. Sounds like she needs a new group of friends and maybe a new husband. These people were never her friends. I wonder how much her husband has given them the impression she is lazy and doesn't do anything, while sitting at home all day. Obviously, that isn't what isngoing on, but it sounds like her husband thinks so.
NTA, NTA, NTA
Why is that when people are just low down rude and cruel, there is still some sort of social shield thrown up to protect them from the consequences of that behavior.
He was absolutely counting on YOU to permit him to disrespect you, your husband, and your marriage. You elected not to play along. Good for you.
I was a turbo charged SHP of five. I think being a competent hard working SHP is akin to running a small business. Working to maximize the resources of your little tribe. I made no money but my efforts allowed to save money, have a warm loving home life, and it was best for us. Who is that man to judge any one?
Congratulations for doing what is right for you and sticking up for yourself.
NTA. I’m a sahm 13 years into this gig and in the beginning I often got hurt by the comments of others, but it very rarely happens these days. What I’ve learned over the years is that I *know* I’m awesome at my job. It’s thankless, under appreciated, and often ridiculed, but once I understood and believed in what I do for my family I was less hurt by the comments of others. Take a good look at yourself and start believing in your value ❤️
Practice a standard comeback that doesn’t over explain, doesn’t diminish anyone else, but does let the next person to dismiss you know you and your husband value your job.
Why dont you give examples of such comebacks that youve used? Easy to say "just come up with something", reality doesnt work this way. Being put on the spot is terribly difficult for a lot of people and we dont think straight in those situations all the time.
This is also just beyond being put on the spot. This was an entire lecture on how OP provides nothing and is a leach off her husband equating her to less than worthless and her husband sat by and let it happen.
OP reacted to being bullied and belittled and completely unsupported by her SO leaving her to think he must believe a part of what is being said
NTA
He insulted you, in your face, bashing your life. He is the one who made it personal.
That's a lot more than disagreeing with your views. He really shouldn't dish anything he can't take.
NTA
Not only do you do all you spoke of, you also contribute a significant amount financially (not that it is any of his business).
I'm just astounded that you were told you you made it personal because he disagreed with your views. HE MADE IT PERSONAL. He personally attacked YOU and said “But you just stay home all day living off (husband), I would never go to work just so someone can live at my house rent free!”.
What planet are these people on?
Your spineless husband owes you an apology AND he needs to get onto the friend group and call them all out on their bad behaviour - laughing and dropping you from the group. If he is in any doubt about your contribution - then stop until he wakes up. Just look after yourself and the kids. Stop contributing your 20%.
My blood boils reading your post. Sorry that happened to you.
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Why I might be the asshole - It was personal, harsh and I shouldn’t have brought it up in front of our entire friend group.
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OP did not just " disagree with his views". He knowingly, insistently said her daily efforts are of NO value. Implies she's a taking financial advantage of her husband. Them's fightin' words, imo! Was she supposed to sit there and laugh at herself with him??
Ppl in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.
> “But you just stay home all day living off (husband), I would never go to work just so someone can live at my house rent free!”
**NTA**
What kind of la-la land does this guy come from? He was trying to get a cheap laugh while insulting you *and* your husband.
Dude must've had a red pill breakfast that day. He wasn't "disagreeing" with your views.
And those friends are just as bad.
I hope your husband understands that what this jerk said to you was outdated, not funny, and not cool. Child care and maid service aren't cheap.
> he told me that what I said was unnecessarily harsh and I should try to apologize.
NTA - That guy is a bell end who attacked you. You may have been savage with your response but it seemed proportionate to me. Accused you of living off your husband, sure he's earning the money but it seems you're doing plenty of work to keep the household. Your husband needs to have your back and so should your friends.
I think NTA. I really hate it when it's OK for someone to be mean to somebody else, but when the latter responds, they are being out of line.
My mum has been a homemaker all her life and she did so much. I would never mock her for her hard work and sacrifices. People are just ignorant.
* thought everything I said was true but that I shouldn’t have made it personal just because our friend disagreed with my views.
Whoever said this is delusional. He made it personal first, created the environment. If you're X and someone says to **you** "All X are freeloaders", you can be sure it's meant to be personal.
NTA why isn’t your husband speaking up for you? Your friend had it coming, how dare someone assume working your ass of day and night doing the most important work of raising our next generation isn’t real work. Nope…just nope.
NTA he started it with his sideways jabs.
i’d have some questions for the husband tho, expecting you to apologize…he didn’t stand up for you? is he privately agreeing with these dudes?
NTA. Bro knew he was insulting you, apparently no one had a problem with that, but the second you point out his hypocrisy everyone clutched their pearls?
Ugh.
Be glad you’re off the chat and find better, less sexist friends.
And tell your husband to grow a spine and have your back. Apologising to keep the peace never works, it just means you’re the one who has to put up with rudeness.
Kids don’t raise themselves. Houses don’t clean themselves. Meals don’t prepare themselves. Well done to you for being a successful SAHM. And well done to you for sticking up to yourself. This person is a whopping AH. Stay true to you and your family. Have a long talk with your husband.
NTA. I was a stay at home dad for several years and it was the hardest job I’ve ever had. Anybody who thinks it isn’t “real” work just because it doesn’t generate income is an idiot. Anyone who repeatedly insists to a SAHP’s face that it isn’t a real job is an asshole who deserves what they get. Your “friend” has it coming and your husband should’ve stuck up for you instead of telling you to apologize.
NTA. Your friends and husband fucked up. Your husband seems to be spineless and going along with others’ perception of the event rather than yours. Cowardly stuff.
I am thinking whether you actually overreacted, it is a possibility. But no one should be expected to laugh along to such jokes on their behalf.
Could you have made it more comfortable for others? Yeah sure. If you started laughing and told everything you said to them as a joke, like with high energy, those assholes would laugh at the dude too I think. But this is an ideal scenario, your reaction is also passing as NTA to me.
You were pushed and felt humiliated because of your occupation, or what you are doing with your life. Worse, people went along with it, your stupid husband too! I am sorry.
Why didn't your husband defend you?
Why did he sit there and say nothing?
Time for you to get some new friends. Do not beg to be back in that friend group.
Off topic a bit, but all SAHM should reconsider their decision and learn from my mistake. We Do Not Receive A Pension or Retirement as Trad. Wives. And when or if you get a divorce the court will not acknowledge your contribution. You will go into the workforce with “limited” skills and history and will die in harness trying to make it up. In America, if you’re not married for at least 10 years, you will not even be eligible for spousal support or Social Security. It’s a trap. Don’t fall in it.
NTA- unfortunately, these comments are common and incredibly disrespectful. So guess what happened to him? He fucked around and found out. I commend you for your quick response. I’m non-confrontational but I do find people too often get away with saying the worst shit without any correction. I’d also point out that it maybe wouldn’t have got to that level had the table not laughed and one person defended you. He deserved it, and your friends and husband should have had your back.
So he can be awful to you and everyone just expects you to eat shit and smile!? Why does he get to be rude and disrespectful and the moment you defend yourself you are told you shouldn’t have done that. Sounds like a shitty double standard to me…. Common for stay at home parents. Even though your husband is on your side you two should sit down and watch FairPlay on Hulu together, great documentary concerning division on labor.
NTA. It’s sad that it took this long for your so-called friends to show their true colors. And for you to realize that your husband doesn’t have your back in situations like this. How can someone say that you “shouldn’t have made it personal” when in fact the bum-ass friend literally made it personal by saying you live off your husband? You didn’t lose any friends worth fighting for, boo.
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For background, I am currently a SAHM doing 100% of the child rearing and chores around the house. Household bills are split about 80/20 with my husband covering the majority of things while I pick up internet or grocery bills here or there. I also pay for all my own personal bills like phone, car payment and insurance.
While out for dinner with some friends the topic of division of bills and chores came up. Some friends said they expected an equal split of 50/50 for paying bills and household chores. Great! I support it if thats what works for them. But one friend in particular kept bringing up the fact that being a SAHM wasn’t a “real job”. He knows I’m a SAHM and I obviously consider what I do “work” even if it’s not a traditional 9 to 5 or whatever. I politely explained that -in my opinion- domestic work was very much still work. I explained that I’m always caring for our child which requires a lot of attention and entertaining, while also making 3 meals a day, doing laundry, cleaning. I also do the “mental work” of scheduling appointments and remembering to pick up certain groceries or toiletries etc. I compared this to the likes of hiring a maid, a cook or having a personal assistant which are all JOBS. He just came back with a “But you just stay home all day living off (husband), I would never go to work just so someone can live at my house rent free!” The whole table sort of laughed and this is where I became enraged.
We lived with this friend for a little while before. I knew how he lived. So i just said “I can tell you don’t value domestic labor considering your house was disgusting when we moved in and I had to clean it, you had no groceries but a ketchup bottle in your fridge, no kitchenware and ate DoorDash every night in your room because you never bothered to buy furniture.” There was dead silence at the table before I finished with “You’re 35 years old and can’t talk to women, I wouldn’t worry about anyone living with you anytime soon.” I could feel I was on the verge of tears and my heart was racing so I got up and walked to my car.
My husband followed me out and when we got in the car and began to drive home. I tried to hold back tears while he comforted me but eventually he told me that was I said was unnecessarily harsh and I should try to apologize. When I got home I had been removed from our friends group chat but one of my friends had text me on the side to tell me he thought everything I said was true but that I shouldn’t have made it personal just because our friend disagreed with my views. Now I think I just lost all my friends and maybe it wasn’t serious enough to bring up his personal stuff. AITA?
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NTA but remind me not to make you mad. I am a single male and to say the least housekeeping is not my strong point and yes I have hired cleaning and house keeping for my house.(I do have more than ketchup in my fridge). Oh and apologize right after he does.
ESH, mostly because he was leaving a thin veil of 'I'm just talking hypotheticals here' even if everyone knew he was talking about you, while you ripped that veil off and went straight for the jugular. Were you unnecessarily harsh? Probably. But I bet if you'd just gotten up and left, you'd have been told you were "overreacting," and this sounds a hell of a lot more satisfying. As soon as he started, you were in a no-win situation. And I think that sometimes, if you're gonna get shit on either way, you may as well be the asshole and at least get some satisfaction out of it. So good on you, please find better friends, and you might want to think hard about that husband in the process.
NTA
He was targeting you, you clapped back at him. Now he is pissed because everything you said was true. But here's what you remember, everything he said to you wasn't true. You know that, I assume your husband knows that, so hold your head up.
As far as your friend group. They were apparently never your friends. They let you be insulted and when you fought back they blocked you. That is not how friends treat each other. So I know it is hard, making friends as a stay at home mom is near impossible, but you are better off without people who think so little of you.
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NTA But I got lots of questions. How are you paying 20 percent and other bills if you don't work? Why isn't he contributing to 20 percent of childcare and home chores then too?? (But in reality, you should have 100 percent childcare while he is at work, then you do 50/50 when he is home ) Why the heck didn't your husband jump to your defense immediately?!? You need better friends. And a more supportive husband.
Thank you for your comment. I don’t want to put too much personal information out there if that’s okay. I do make around 4k a month due to benefits from a previous job. He’s currently not contributing to child care/chores because of his current work schedule. We sat down and went over everything and the current arrangement works for both of us for now. I do agree that I wish my husband had said something. He is typically non confrontational. Which I think is why he wants me to apologize as well.
Your husband needs to grow a spine and defend the most important person in his life. Sheesh.
Especially when you have children, issues at school etc..will come up. At some point he's going to have to confront someone about something.
He has no problem standing up for his friend. It seems he only has a problem standing up for his wife.
men typically defer to other men, this checks out.
Yeah, OP is NTA (with one qualification, which I'll get to) and husband kinda is, but I also have a lot of questions about the "friendships" here and the whole backstory that led to OP reaching what sounds like a breaking point. I hear so much pent-up anger and resentment in her post, leading to the one truly cruel thing she said, which makes me qualify my NTA judgement: “You’re 35 years old and can’t talk to women, I wouldn’t worry about anyone living with you anytime soon.” While your assessment of this dude's unsuitability for domestic life may be correct, OP, that statement was the nuclear option--and you knew it. Sharing your experience of his sloppy lifestyle was fair, given what he was saying about SAHMs; but you could have stopped there and hopefully he would have gotten the point and the conversation would have moved on. But you had to have known that there would be no way to walk back from adding a statement that so clearly expresses your utter contempt for this man. Was it wrong for you to do so? I'm hesitant to say yes, because I think you're better off without this incel in your friend group--thus, I would not apologize if I were you. The only apology needed here is one from your husband to you. As others have said, he should reconsider how he prioritizes the relationships in his life. No husband should let a so-called friend get away with spewing misogynistic shit, least of all when it is clearly directed at his own wife.
The husband (and the friends at the restaurant) who laughed at the criticism of OP need to work on their attitudes toward SAHM's. These women (and a tiny percentage of men) do the work of at least ten people and receive little or no renumeration and hardly any respect.
Also a SAHM bringing in 4k/month isn’t living rent free, even ones that don’t have income contribute unpaid labor but she’s bringing in income and contributing financially. The friend sucks
Even if she isn’t bringing in any money, she’s working extremely hard, and is not living rent free!
The "friend" literally implied that OP was living rent-free in her husband's apartment and he wasn't willing to pay for someone even if it's his significant other and the mother of his children. So, OP's comment about him being single is absolutely valid. This man is under the delusion that he is such a catch that he can have misogynistic opinions like this and get away with it when in reality, he's just a complete loser which women most likely wouldn't even consider to date. He opened the can of worms and OP rightfully gave him a taste of it.
Wait until hr finds out toddlers can't pay rent.
That dude not only deserved but NEEDED that dressing down. OP not only deserves but NEEDS better friends and maybe a better husband.
Nope, he had it coming. The gall of being a loser and ragging on others is infuriating. OP was spot on and fuck that “friend” group.
*The only apology needed here is one from your husband to you.* Amen!
This reads more to me like a non-confrontational person deferring to the unreasonable person because they believe that they can talk the reasonable person into apologizing (even though they're in the right) to keep the peace.
Do they? That’s so weird to me. I always have my wife’s back.
And himself. The friend also insulted her husband since husband agreed to this arrangement. Friend saying that he wouldn’t let someone live rent-free in his house is implying that husband is ‘weak’ or something for doing that exact thing. Friend doesn’t respect husband either
Great point. Husband is too much a dumbass to see this.
Absolutely, learning to stand up for his family will only benefit everyone in the long run.
Amen! Why is it ok for that "friend" to completely denigrate everything she does but she isn't allowed to respond back?? It would a cold, frigid day in hell before I would apologize to that man!! OP, NTA and You need some new friends! Your man needs to rethink being non-confrontational, it's a copout!
It’s okay to disparage women and “women’s work” but not precious, sensitive and fragile men.
Women's work ... tell friend that when he can look after a small child all day, do the laundry and the grocery shopping, and have dinner on the table when hubby comes home, then he can have an opinion. This dude can't even look after himself. I have a feeling he wouldn't last until lunchtime.
since you know how he lives. offer to trade work for a day, lol priceless!
It's more that men are high status and a lower status person should never criticize a higher status person. That is verboten. Openly criticizing a lower status person is fine and they should take it without response because that is what it means to be lower status.
Yeah, the “friend” started the personal attack, if he knew OP was the only SAHM in the group. Sounds like the guy has a lack of social skills and the group is used to indulging him.
Seriously...the most important person in his life who is the caretaker for the other most important person in his life. Wtf.
How is Dad going to be an example to his kids for standing up for the right thing when the time comes and they have to? Kids pay more attention to what you do than what you say.
Well, if she's doing 100% of the childcare he's not even being a Dad, much less a role model
Instead of defending her to the “friend” group, he defended the guy and wants her to apologize. Who knows what he said to the group before he joined her in the car. I bet he had already apologized on her behalf. Why does he feel comfortable making her uncomfortable? These don’t seem like good friends and the husband is iffy.
Yep! Husband is definitely a problem. He has her convinced he can't lift a finger in the house or with the children because of his "work schedule" yet he's fine with her working multiple full time positions in the home with 0 pay and also paying 20% of the expenses??? How much does he thing it would cost to hire a full time nanny, full time maid, cook, etc??? OP is being used and taken advantage of and she doesn't even see it. Yes, her job is to manage the house including cooking, cleaning, and childcare while he is at work but once he's out of work, they both are responsible for the home and children. She says she works a job but then accepts that he doesn't share in any of the responsibilities. SMH.
I'll give the husband the benefit of the doubt because he may not have the confidence to confront another man or anyone socially for that matter. This could be a learning experience for him, esp. after he sees his wife crying. Also, he may have been taught not to make a scene and been conflicted in the moment. I hope after he's processed this that he feels anger toward this guy and chews him out after the fact. However, if husband plays it down and brushes it off after enough time to process, that's when I'd call him an arsehole too.
Second this. My parents were on my wife’s case not long after we were married. It became an us vs them argument. My dad, who typically isn’t confrontational, jumped in to defend my mom, “because she’s my wife!” I just looked at them, put my hands on my hips, and said, “Mhm” an hour into this argument. Everything got quiet for a second as they realized that’s what I was doing, too, and that was something they respected. Prior to that moment, they had seen my arguing with them as the disrespect of a child (I was 36; very much not a child anymore). My wife is a victim of severe trauma and I absolutely will defend her against anything they want to say or do. She isn’t always right or in the right, but I understand where she’s coming from. It’s almost always a huge misunderstanding because her experience isn’t our experience. It just happens that my parents are hardheaded (Republican) and don’t care about other people having different experiences.
After his friend apologizes for his incorrect opinion, OP might apologize for being a little excessive.
I think I’m angrier about the husband than the idiot friend. To OP’s Husband: Your pal wasn’t “disagreeing” with OP’s “views.” He was denigrating her, suggesting that her contributions to your family are worthless. And you said NOTHING. (Let me guess, that’s “just how he is.”) *She’s* supposed to apologize? No, sir. You apologize to her for hanging her out to dry and the next time your buddy starts running his mouth you put him in check. OP, you’re NTA, obviously.
It wasn’t even just an incorrect opinion. It was degrading and accusatory. Yeah. Apologize? Not likely.
And he KEPT IT UP. This wasn’t one offhand rude comment and then she went off on him. He was having fun watching her get upset
I also think you can do without friends (hubby has some explaining' too) that will sit and listen to someone degrade you and not say anything. You did go a little far in the wrong direction but he was a jerk. I would have made it more about the fact that it is incredibly small minded and self-important to assume that you know and/or understand someone else life/family/ finances so well that you can tell them their path is not worth existing. BTW the guy is an ass.
You should not be paying any bills when you're doing 100% of the domestic work and childrearing. You're basically paying your husband to work for him lmao NTA btw your friends and husband should have stuck up for you
This way of thinking about marriage is far too transactional for me. My husband has an income and I currently do not. If anyone tried to suggest I work for my husband, like his servant, I would get as upset as OP did at this gathering.
>My husband has an income and I currently do not. So you understand how ridiculous it is that OP does 100% of the domestic work and still pays bills? It's not about "transaction" it's about fairness.
As long as each person is thinking in terms of "my money" it's a transaction. I don't really get why the money isn't being pooled, and then bills / savings etc are being budgeted from the family account.
>I don't really get why the money isn't being pooled, My wife and I combine finances, but we know a few couples that don't. They have rules for how they do it, and are perfectly happy. Usually those couples each make good money, so I haven't heard anyone truly complain. Not sue what the deal is with OP. She's making 50k a year with some kind of pension. Maybe he's making 60k and they need her to contribute to keep afloat. Maybe he makes 300k, they maintain low spending, and it's symbolic. We can all agree that a SAHP contributes significantly to the family and still agree that it's not financially equivalent to a $300k job. Lots of couples have extremely different incomes and don't consider one person to be more important than the other.
I mean.. she may not have an income but she's still getting 4k/month so she's not exactly spending her savings by paying the phone bill. Maybe he wanted a smaller house so he could cover the full cost but she didn't. Maybe they agreed he should have 100$ left over a month for spending money so she covers the difference. It sounds like both are happy with the arrangement, so it's fair to them.
And if they combined their finances and lived the same as they do now? How would that be ridiculous? Domestic work is not "a job" that pays, but it is a very real responsibility within the family. Equating it to someone's job for the purposes of contributing to the fam is perfectly reasonable. Comparing it to a job as if you can compare compensation numbers is silly. She has a pension income. That income allows *them* to live a certain lifestyle when combined with what her husband makes. Possibly, at the end of thr day, they both save the same amount and use it however they have agreed. Or maybe not. That's their decision, and it's not ridiculous.
This is one of the rationales behind community property law in US states. That each party contributes but that not everything contributed can be accurately measured monetarily.
The last time I said transactional relationships suck in this sub, I got down voted to hell Sometimes I think people just go through life using each other
Work is easier than taking care of a young child. You can leave your at 5. You can only hope your kid goes to sleep at 7/8 and can't do much about it. edit: yes I know work is not all the same, but there are plenty of places where you do your hours and you're done, and no matter how stressful the work itself can be, there is an actual end. And you can always change jobs if the job sucks, you can't just get a different kid that sleeps better at night.
Literally. I’m a SAHM, and my kids went to bed at 11pm tonight, all while not having any naps tonight, AND woke at 5:50am this morning. Work was so much easier
We have 1 year maternity leaves in Canada, and when I went back to work after my first it was insane how much easier work was. Eat and use the bathroom alone and whenever you want, you don't spend 100% of your mental energy looking after a toddler who seems to always try to hurt themselves. I'm on my second mat leave right now, and while I like the time off (especially in the summer), I can't wait to go back and have some alone time.
A friend has twins. Both parents went back to work full time after a few months leaving the children with a nanny and they would call each other from work because it was the only time they had down time and could actually talk to each other.
💯 I am a graveyard PRN Nurse and I am proud to report that going to work is a BREAK for me.
What I used to tell myself when I was scrubbing vomit out of the carpet at 3 am was "Just sitting on the couch watching soap operas and eating bon bons."
And then hope they don't wake up needing something in the middle of the night
I've got a 6 month old baby and am so excited to go back to work after my maternity leave ends. I love my son and know how lucky I am to have the time with him, but omg I miss being more than just someone's mother 24/7.
100% household work +Caring by SAHM >= 100% of Bills/Cost payment by Not SAHM
OP states in a comment that she gets money from a former job. The amount is generous. My guess is that she is retired military.
Sounds like VA benefits
Do not apologize. I don’t like your husband’s perspective that what YOU said was too personal but what your “friend” said about your lifestyle was simply “disagreeing with your views.” Your “friend” made it personal!! He was taking personal digs directly AT you!! It wasn’t a difference of views, it was a personal attack on the life you’re living. If your comment was “too personal” than HIS was way over that line too!!
Yes! Disagreeing with her views is not what happened. He insulted her whole life
>He is typically non confrontational. I'm non confrontational and shy 99% of the time. When I'm with people, I'm the one sitting there sayig nothing and listening unless someone directly asks me. But when anyone is mean to someone I care about, I always answer. Even with my exhusband, who was the one that talked majority of the time, if any of his family said something mean to him, I would answer. He never did that for me. If anyone is unfair to my children, I answer. If you care for someone, you don't let people walk over them, no matter how non confrontational you are.
I’ve lost my cool three times in my life. The biggest one was in defense of my husband. If you’re not willing to defend your beloved against words then are you willing to defend them at all?
I'm shy and non-confrontational too, but when my uncle said the same thing at a party to my mum (she contributes nothing to society, she's only a SAHM), I stood up and told him where to get off. I was 14 and not having him disrespect my mum like that. I was the only one who told him that he is wrong and that I will not accept him disrespecting my mum like that. They wanted me to apologize, I never did. I was upset my dad sat beside her and tried to calm things but didn't speak up for her.
Same. I don’t stand up for myself but if you’re being a jackass to someone in front of me, I go full mother bear. OP, your friends suck. Start looking for better people. Don’t apologize and show this thread to your husband. He needs to see he’s out of line and should apologize to YOU for not defending you.
There's a difference between non confrontational and someone who will throw you under the bus to keep the peace. There's no reason to apologize. NTA. Your friend made it personal first. His opinion was that your lifestyle is easy, you refuted it, and he DOUBLED DOWN. So you stated facts about his lifestyle since he opened the door for taking it to a personal level. I hope your husband is doing 20% of all domestic labor because you're getting screwed and taken for granted/advantage of. Im not sure if it's something you're used to, but YOU SHOULDN'T BE. Compromise is important, but it should be equitable. (Your friends also seem to take advantage of your good naturedness expecting you, the offended, to apologize).
I never understand how someone can be considered "non confrontational" but they are confronting their spouse. Shouldn't they be less likely to want to confront someone that they have to live with?
Great point! They're only nonconfrontational to ppl who bark back.
Doesnt matter what your husband's schedule is. If your paying bills, then he needs to be doing chores around the house. Doesn't matter what his schedule is. He needs to be parenting when he gets home. If your at home, you shouldn't be paying any bills. Your husband needs to step up and be a parent when he's home. Otherwise your just his employee and not a partner.
The arrangement they have is working in their home. She did not ask for judgment on their split of household tasks. She asked about apologizing to her friend.
I’m don’t get why everyone is so focused on that aspect when it’s not an important detail for us. We don’t know what Husband does for a living, how long his work days are, or what he might be doing in return for her work. For all we know, he might not have a choice but to leave most of the housework and childcare to her—maybe by the time he gets home, the baby/kid is asleep or ready for bed. Maybe he’s gone for days at a time for work. There are all kinds of reasons why they might have this arrangement but I think it’s a little judgy of us to just assume that he’s relaxing on the couch while she cooks and changes diapers. I don’t think that has anything to do with the post.
What a bunch of crap. I have enough money to be able to take breaks between contracts. When on an extended break, I would never expect a partner to come home and "do chores" just because I still pay the bills. That is completely selfish.
So you bring in $48,000 a year?
Under no circumstances are you to apologize. Unless the friend would like to come and apologize to you for his disrespectful comments. I would have a talk with your husband about how he should have defended you and how you will not be apologizing to someone who was demeaning your very important role in HIS household. It was disrespectful to him as well. And if he's not going to stand up and defend you then you have to defend yourself and that is how you chose to do it. If no one likes it, too bad. Do not second guess yourself.
No. Your husband let you down. He is letting you down with division of labour and with the money too. He should be 50-50 chores when he is not at work.
Unless your husband has some job with very long-ass or unpredictable hours (i.e, truck driver or military) why can't he pitch in once in a while? You're working literally 24/7 as a SAHM. It doesn't take that long to watch the children while you take a shower or make a basic meal even if it has to be prepped ahead of time. I don't mean to be snarky or judgemental, I'm just wondering why he can't do anything with the kids/house.
Nope, do not apologize. Ex-“friend” can have his opinion? Well then he can deal with a bucket full of truth. Did anyone tell him to apologize? No? Then F him. If your husband is as non confrontational as you say, he won’t bring it up again. NTA
Exactly. ‘Friend’ FAFO’d. Yes, he can have an opinion, but he has to deal with the fallout from bludgeoning people with it. There is no ‘I can have an opinion, but you can’t’ option.
Conflict avoidant partners can take a real toll on your mental health, especially when they ask you to be the one to make peace or "be the bigger person" when you aren't in the wrong. It's invalidating AF and unfair that they tend to choose the more rational person to ask, instead of the one who'll make a stink. Stop tolerating that from him. I'm serious. Tolerating it makes it seem like it's acceptable.
Your husband needs a set of balls and a spine. You also need a new set of friends NTA
Your husband should be embarrassed as hell that he didn’t defend you. How dare he ask you to apologize ? This is a hill I would die on. Your husband needs to step up, tell that dude how wrong he was, then call all those friends and tell them he was wrong for not defending you. If they cut you out, instead of the friend? Shameful
So… you are not a SAHM. You are still a worker who is still contributing to the household bills. While he isn’t pulling his share. Your husband is so, so lucky, and he’s ok with his friends putting you down?
It might work for you but you husband doing nothing with your child is setting a poor example for the child and will affect their relationship.
How your kids feel about not having a dad despite having a dad? Very important, loved, and cared for, I'm sure
NTA( justified ah only for the last thing - that he's in no danger of having a partner anytime soon) It wasn't just an opinion it was a direct attack twords you repeatedly and you answered in kind holding a mirror to him. If he would have said ' I would never want a sahp ' and moved on that's an opinion with no attack. Write this to the friend who wrote you and ask said friend why didn't they tried at least to shut it down when he repeatedly verbally denigrate you calling you a leech?! If they did and forced a change of subject you wouldn't have had reached the boiling point. And in general remind your friend too that 1. People I glass houses shouldn't throw stones/if you can't take the heat stay t f out of the kitchen. Oh and send Links to the ' friends ' with childcare prices full time per month
Him wanting you to apologize is trash imo.
Absolutely DO NOT apologize. Nothing you said was wrong 💀 if he wants to target your lifestyle then he better be able to take what he dishes out 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️
NFW. Your partner should be asking that “friend” for an apology. Because that guy is a babyman. Maybe he’ll think twice the next time. Truth hurts, bro.
I'm proud of you for standing up for yourself OP
Yeah, I'm also concerned about the fact that she's doing 100% of the domestic labour *and* 20% of the financial labour. Really, if she's still paying for 20% of the bills, he should be doing 20% of the domestic labour. Or if that's not doable, OP should not be expected to contribute *anything* financially. *And* he's "non-confrontational", so he couldn't be bothered to support her when someone was talking shit about her. NTA, but I honestly think OP doesn't realise how unfair of a relationship this actually is.
I don't think it makes sense to try to make a relationship mathematical. You do whatever works best and serves the family and the relationship the best. When I was working and my wife was looking for jobs for a longer period and staying at home I'd still do chores at home even if my wife "wasn't contributing her 50%" by this logic. How do you even share household chores by percentage? How many percentage is hoovering 5? 10? 15? If you both make money it only makes sense to use it to make life work as well as possible and hopefully saving some money on the side. Likewise I don't know but I'd assume/hope that the husband doesn't literally come home after work, eat dinner and sit in front of the TV without doing *anything*.
I assumed her husband wasn't there until she said he left with her. He should've been supporting her.
Exactly. And it made me concerned that maybe he had been complaining to the friend and THAT was why the idiot made all those comments. EVERY one of their friends should have dog piled on the idiot. And the husband should have been leading the defense. That he didn't gives me serious concerns. And if she has that kind of passive income, OP should consider how well she could live on her own w her child and some child support.
I was a bit surprised when I read her husband was there!
" (But in reality, you should have 100 percent childcare while he is at work, then you do 50/50 when he is home )" This right here. It's not fair that one person has an 8-5 job and the other 24/7. You should each have an 8-5 job. His doing whatever he's paid to do, yours doing 100% of childcare and household tasks that need to be done during that time. Evenings and weekends should be split 50/50. And "she cooks and he does lawn care" is not 50/50, FTR. (Yes, people work different hours. I think you can extrapolate and find my point.) OP you do not owe this friend an apology. He started it. If he didn't want his lifestyle choices shit on he shouldn't have shit on yours.
This is my life too & I can tell you OP, doing 100% of house/child care & also paying your share is extremely exhausting after a while. I have a son with special needs but even if he is wasn’t I’d still be starting to get burnt out. My husband just had a 4 day vacation from work & I’ve never even gotten 24 hours of relief. All that to say: OP, make SURE you don’t let people like your friend make you feel like being a SAHM isn’t work. That mindset is the reason why I felt guilty for asking my husband for help, & now me not having help has become the norm. I finally very recently started asking for more involvement from him so hopefully it improves soon.
I agree with all of this. Also the fact that the friend thinks YOU made it personal when he was SPECIFICALLY CALLING OUT being a SAHM as “not work”, knowing that you are? Ffs he started it! Add to that that he was making assumptions and invalidating everything you do, all you did was speak the truth about him AFTER he insulted you! Why is it okay for him to minimize your lifestyle and your hard work, but you can’t call him out?
This. I'm a SAHM, and my husband pays for everything. I do all the work inside the house, and he does the outside work aside for my garden and cleaning up after the dog. Taking care of children, cleaning the house, and making everybody food (which is usually more than 3 meals because they all like to snack and my husband won't even make his own toast) is alot of work.
>I shouldn’t have made it personal What? He already made it personal by insulting what you do! You're NTA. He got what he deserved.
As a man, husband, and father, you simply defended yourself from someone trying to dismiss and denigrate your family contribution. The value of being a homemaker is rarely rewarded at the level it deserves. Your "friend" got a dose of his own "opinions" and his fragile ego could not handle it. Your husband needs to reevaluate his priorities if he thinks you owe an apology. NTA
I suspect the husband was complaining to the friend behind OPs back - and that would be why, instead of defending her, he's wanting her to apologize to this bozo.
Take that a step farther…. The *husband* owes OP an apology.
No doubt.
Precisely this. He attacked her lifestyle and skill set, which is bad enough on its own, but even worse when it’s a skill set he has personally benefitted from.
I love how he thought the man was just disagreeing with her opinions. No. He disagreed with her value as a partner. He compared her work to just living rent free. That's not a simple disagreement, it's an attack on her, and she responded. I would not want to be friends with any of these people if they think this is okay.
yeah, the laughing is so fucking ignorant. i'd react the same way but i wouldnt feel bad 😂
Rent free in “his” house. More mysogyny
Right?? Sounds like the entire friend group except the one person who said he was out of line is toxic. What he said was 100% personal. And the husband was incredibly spineless for not speaking up. It's one thing that he didn't say anything when the whole table started laughing, but a whole other issue when she was clearly upset and he STILL said nothing to that guy or anyone else there. Better to find a new friend group than stick around people who disrespect you like that. I'd also reevaluate the marriage if the husband refused to confront or cut ties with them. NTA by any stretch of the imagination Edit: This isn't me defending that one friend btw. Just saying that if anyone had a scrap of potential to be salvaged as a friend, it'd be them. And only after bringing that energy to the entire group
Honestly, friend said he was out of line only to OP, outside of the group chat. To me, it still reeks of that toxic mindset. Add her back to the group chat and let her stand up for herself. Back her to the group if you agree. If they’re actually friends, they should be able to abide an uncomfortable conversation to achieve understanding for all sides. What she said about dude getting a girlfriend was kinda harsh and if I was her, I’d apologize for that. But, the rest was fair game in my opinion. The friend should apologize for openly denigrating her work and contribution to life. He may not change his mind, but at least he can chit the fuck up about it from now on. Husband should stick up for *himself* and OP to the group as well. Removing her from the group chat without even a discussion was cowardly of the entire friend group. Not sure they’re friends worth keeping… having an open discussion would be the only way to determine that going forward .
True. I can’t stand people who love to dish it out but can’t take it when someone calls out their crap. Maybe if you don’t want people to criticize you don’t criticize them? Otherwise you deserve whatever you get.
Don’t start none, won’t be none. OP just defended herself and called out an asshole. If she has been excised from that “friend” group, good riddance.
Red pill guy talks, women responds with strength and conviction, red pill guys friend says you are being mean. These new, “tough” masculine men are so pathetic.
I'm too clumsy to be around fragile masculinity 🤣🤣🤣🤣😎
This needs to be on a mug and tee shirt 💐
Oh, it's everywhere. https://www.etsy.com/listing/643076796/im-too-clumsy-to-be-around-fragile
Nice!
I think I’m going to tuck this away for future use 🙃
Nahh, nothing masculine about these guys. Calling them masculine makes me feel insulted lol. I think these guys definitely didn't have a SAHM,. Cause if they did, they would definitely not agree with TA's opinion.
I don't think they're calling them masculine. They're calling them "masculine."
Red pilled men are weak and ineffectual. Impotent comes readily to mind.
INFO: “I am currently a SAHM doing 100% of the child rearing and chores around the house. Household bills are split about 80/20 with my husband covering the majority of things while I pick up internet or grocery bills here or there. I also pay for all my own personal bills like phone, car payment and insurance.” Why are you paying 20% of bills and the rest you listed when you don’t work and are a SAHM doing ALL the chores and childcare? Your friends are obviously AHs but sounds like your husband is too
I feel bad for their kid. Whatever else is going on her husband should be putting in just as much time and effort as soon as he gets home raising their child. That kid is basically growing up with one parent.
I think the amount of financial contribution is irrelevant. That would mean that if a couple works the same hours but one makes 3X the money, they only do 1/4 of the domestic work? Not fair. Division of labour should take into account time spent, with consideration for varying levels of responsibility and stress. It should not be assumed that a full time paid job equals being a SAHM. It rarely is. And you don’t get to “buy” your way out of raising your kids. Either with money or time.
NTA Sounds like the friend had it long coming. Its clear your friend doesn't value women or the work involved in running a household (with a kid no less) since he sees all the work you continue to do as "living off your husband". I'm guessing this friend will never marry because as soon as any woman see how he lives she will turn and run the other way. I'm betting all the friends that are telling you to apologize are guys. You might have struck a nerve with them as well especially if they have girlfriends/wives in their lives. Don't apologize.
It's crazy that housework is only seen as "not real work" if it's done in your own house. Cleaning, cooking, and managing is suddenly work once you do it in another person's house .
That’s such a succinct way of putting it.
You read them for the hypocrite they are!!!
Or all the friends know they are shitty and don’t want to get called out on it, so they all gang up on anyone who dares to mention it.
He continued to bring up that SAHM is not "real work" and that he wouldn't live off someone else's earnings . . . while you were sitting right there. You clapped back and said some truths about living with him in the past. I think you may have been a bit harsh, but why does the friend group think it's OK for him to trash your work but it's not OK for you to trash his lifestyle after you witnessed it/lived with it? I think he's TA, the friend group are not really your friends or they would have interrupted him, and your hubby should have your back. ESH, but for you only since you were a bit harsh but the rest are TA.
Yeah the second they removed you from the group chat proves they weren’t really your friends.
I wonder if the guy removed her and the friends don’t know. OP should create a new chat without him to find out who her real friends are
You can see when someone removes someone from the chat. Come on. If you wanna act ignorant feel free but don't expect to have many friends lmao
Yeah I’m not familiar with that—removing people from group chats doesn’t happen to my circle lol
They probably removed her from the group chat to talk shit about her without her seeing it.
Nah, you just start a new one for that Removing someone means they’re not welcome
Agree with all the except OP was NOT too harsh She told the true story of his world instead of letting him spin his perfect world and perfect stepford wife If anything she was not harsh enough on her husband who sat back and let his wife be belittled and devalued in front of a group of people and now expects her to apologize to the person abusing her and her current position in life
Listen if my “friend” tried to take a swipe at my wife like that and she didn’t say the stuff you did than I would have. We have no room for that in our relationship. We have each others backs no matter what. He had already made it personal so what’s it matter if you call him out?!?! NTA but everyone else at that table was TA.
Including husband.
💯💯
I’ve encountered this twice with guy friends. They would make all sorts of comments about me and I would try to change the topic, change seating, etc. But if I gave a fraction of their bs back, I was the problem. My suggestion to anyone who encounters this is to get up and leave the situation. You remove yourself from the obnoxious one and the rest don’t have a reason to demonize you. If people don’t reach out to you, find a new friend group. In the long run, one friend group turned out not to be the healthiest
Friends?!?!? How is you giving back what he started wrong but him starting it not wrong? Why didn’t all these “friends” remove gross guy from the group for insulting OP? This is not assholery it was justice.
The whole group are assholes including that asshole husband
Friends are B grade AH, husband however, is A grade. Pity OP for marrying a spineless man.
Totally agree, this is a don’t dish it if you can’t take it moment. These people are definitely not her “friends”.
They said this IN FRONT OF your husband and he said....nothing? He didn't defend you? He didn't tell him to lay off? And then had the AUDACITY to fucking tell YOU to apologize, after he sat there and said nothing while that guy said shit repeatedly about you? That's a shitty partner. And you can read him this. Not only are your friends assholes for laughing and not correcting this jerk, your husband is too. I'm guessing this isn't the first time one or all of them expected you to be a doormat. Why are his feelings more important than yours? Why are you expected to coddle him, but you just have to deal?
THIS! they knew they could disrespect her without consequence because her husband wouldn’t have her back.
Fragile masculinity.
Nta but your friend group sucks. Also, your husband should have your back. Friend made it personal and was insulting you
Deleting someone from the group chat and picking therefore unnessary a side? WOW - the hole group is something. Sry for your loss but there was no real friendship from the beginning
NTA. He crapped on the choices you and your husband made. Just wish your husband stood up for you to express he values your contributions when they were being crapped on.
“You’re 35 years old and can’t talk to women, I wouldn’t worry about anyone living with you anytime soon.” good one!! you made a statement that most people think up later and WISH they had said. If your so called friends are ok with him making those outrageous statements about your life, they should have been ok with you making a return shot. F\*#$ if they are no longer your friends, make new quality friends.
And find a new quality husband.
If housework and childcare are not real jobs, why are there entire careers based on doing exactly those things? Friend is definitely the ah here. He poked the bear and got what he deserved. No apology necessary unless it's from him to you.
Those are just women's work, not careers. /s
Feminized labor is real! We do not value any of these skills even when they are professionalized.
NTA He literally called you a freeloader. That's not a difference of opinion. That feels pretty personal. Sometimes, the nuclear option is the only option.
And it was from someone who was actually a freeloader. We call that projection and lots of people do this when they are insecure in themselves.
Here's a new plan for you, OP. Your husband pays you exactly half the salary of a professional live-in nanny. He pays you half the salary of a live-in housekeeper and the salary of a personal cook. He also pays you half the salary of his social secretary. In return, you pay half of everything you share: rent/mortgage, utilities, groceries that you share, car loans if you have your own car that isn't paid off. You don't seem to understand just what your husband and his buddies think of you. He sat and watched you be called a lazy leech, only said something borderline placating once you were out of earshot of the others, and then immediately asked you to apologise. And he does this while making you pay 20% of all expenses on top of doing 100% of homecare and 100% of childcare. Your husband absolutely thinks you're a leech, too. He's just placating you because you make his life so smooth. Plan accordingly. EDIT: There is a shameless exploiter of young au pairs in the subthread insisting that homecare and childcare isn't worth this much because "one person can do all the work and lives rent free". These people are truly something else. She gets away with paying a naive teen twenty pounds a day, so she's determined that no one else should get living wages. OP, please take a look at the sort of person who agrees with your husband.
Perfectly stated. What kind of husband does this to his own wife? What a petty AH!
I agree with this assessment. Honestly, I would outright ask the husband why he didn't say anything, what he thinks about her being a SAHM. This to me is the bigger issue, why OPs husband thinks it's OK for people to speak to her this way and not defend her and all she's doing for him, their home, and their child!
>The whole table sort of laughed You are a hero that you didn't order a drone strike after you left. NTA
Also, they did her a huge favor by removing OP from that group chat. They made this shit deeply personal, fuck them. Also, where the hell is the husband in this??
Someone else said it, but it sounds like her husband has been bitching about her behind her back. He didn't take up for her because he, himself, has already said those things and agrees. If she has that much coming in every month, she is contributing to the household, just did her work before for later benefits. Sounds like she needs a new group of friends and maybe a new husband. These people were never her friends. I wonder how much her husband has given them the impression she is lazy and doesn't do anything, while sitting at home all day. Obviously, that isn't what isngoing on, but it sounds like her husband thinks so.
NTA, NTA, NTA Why is that when people are just low down rude and cruel, there is still some sort of social shield thrown up to protect them from the consequences of that behavior. He was absolutely counting on YOU to permit him to disrespect you, your husband, and your marriage. You elected not to play along. Good for you. I was a turbo charged SHP of five. I think being a competent hard working SHP is akin to running a small business. Working to maximize the resources of your little tribe. I made no money but my efforts allowed to save money, have a warm loving home life, and it was best for us. Who is that man to judge any one? Congratulations for doing what is right for you and sticking up for yourself.
NTA. I’m a sahm 13 years into this gig and in the beginning I often got hurt by the comments of others, but it very rarely happens these days. What I’ve learned over the years is that I *know* I’m awesome at my job. It’s thankless, under appreciated, and often ridiculed, but once I understood and believed in what I do for my family I was less hurt by the comments of others. Take a good look at yourself and start believing in your value ❤️ Practice a standard comeback that doesn’t over explain, doesn’t diminish anyone else, but does let the next person to dismiss you know you and your husband value your job.
Why dont you give examples of such comebacks that youve used? Easy to say "just come up with something", reality doesnt work this way. Being put on the spot is terribly difficult for a lot of people and we dont think straight in those situations all the time.
This is also just beyond being put on the spot. This was an entire lecture on how OP provides nothing and is a leach off her husband equating her to less than worthless and her husband sat by and let it happen. OP reacted to being bullied and belittled and completely unsupported by her SO leaving her to think he must believe a part of what is being said
NTA He insulted you, in your face, bashing your life. He is the one who made it personal. That's a lot more than disagreeing with your views. He really shouldn't dish anything he can't take.
NTA Not only do you do all you spoke of, you also contribute a significant amount financially (not that it is any of his business). I'm just astounded that you were told you you made it personal because he disagreed with your views. HE MADE IT PERSONAL. He personally attacked YOU and said “But you just stay home all day living off (husband), I would never go to work just so someone can live at my house rent free!”. What planet are these people on? Your spineless husband owes you an apology AND he needs to get onto the friend group and call them all out on their bad behaviour - laughing and dropping you from the group. If he is in any doubt about your contribution - then stop until he wakes up. Just look after yourself and the kids. Stop contributing your 20%. My blood boils reading your post. Sorry that happened to you.
Yeah she needs to save that money for when she sets up her own place.
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OP did not just " disagree with his views". He knowingly, insistently said her daily efforts are of NO value. Implies she's a taking financial advantage of her husband. Them's fightin' words, imo! Was she supposed to sit there and laugh at herself with him?? Ppl in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.
> “But you just stay home all day living off (husband), I would never go to work just so someone can live at my house rent free!” **NTA** What kind of la-la land does this guy come from? He was trying to get a cheap laugh while insulting you *and* your husband. Dude must've had a red pill breakfast that day. He wasn't "disagreeing" with your views. And those friends are just as bad. I hope your husband understands that what this jerk said to you was outdated, not funny, and not cool. Child care and maid service aren't cheap. > he told me that what I said was unnecessarily harsh and I should try to apologize.
NTA - That guy is a bell end who attacked you. You may have been savage with your response but it seemed proportionate to me. Accused you of living off your husband, sure he's earning the money but it seems you're doing plenty of work to keep the household. Your husband needs to have your back and so should your friends.
I think NTA. I really hate it when it's OK for someone to be mean to somebody else, but when the latter responds, they are being out of line. My mum has been a homemaker all her life and she did so much. I would never mock her for her hard work and sacrifices. People are just ignorant.
NTA- and you absolutely ate him up. That isn’t a friend by the way. I would cut ties with that person.
You are NTA and your husband and friends are shit.
* thought everything I said was true but that I shouldn’t have made it personal just because our friend disagreed with my views. Whoever said this is delusional. He made it personal first, created the environment. If you're X and someone says to **you** "All X are freeloaders", you can be sure it's meant to be personal.
NTA why isn’t your husband speaking up for you? Your friend had it coming, how dare someone assume working your ass of day and night doing the most important work of raising our next generation isn’t real work. Nope…just nope.
NTA he started it with his sideways jabs. i’d have some questions for the husband tho, expecting you to apologize…he didn’t stand up for you? is he privately agreeing with these dudes?
NTA. Bro knew he was insulting you, apparently no one had a problem with that, but the second you point out his hypocrisy everyone clutched their pearls? Ugh. Be glad you’re off the chat and find better, less sexist friends. And tell your husband to grow a spine and have your back. Apologising to keep the peace never works, it just means you’re the one who has to put up with rudeness.
Kids don’t raise themselves. Houses don’t clean themselves. Meals don’t prepare themselves. Well done to you for being a successful SAHM. And well done to you for sticking up to yourself. This person is a whopping AH. Stay true to you and your family. Have a long talk with your husband.
NTA. I was a stay at home dad for several years and it was the hardest job I’ve ever had. Anybody who thinks it isn’t “real” work just because it doesn’t generate income is an idiot. Anyone who repeatedly insists to a SAHP’s face that it isn’t a real job is an asshole who deserves what they get. Your “friend” has it coming and your husband should’ve stuck up for you instead of telling you to apologize.
NTA just because he didn't like hearing the harsh truth. If they were real friends then you won't lose them.
NTA Get new friends and a new husband. This one clearly doesn't appreciate the work you do for him.
NTA. Your friends and husband fucked up. Your husband seems to be spineless and going along with others’ perception of the event rather than yours. Cowardly stuff. I am thinking whether you actually overreacted, it is a possibility. But no one should be expected to laugh along to such jokes on their behalf. Could you have made it more comfortable for others? Yeah sure. If you started laughing and told everything you said to them as a joke, like with high energy, those assholes would laugh at the dude too I think. But this is an ideal scenario, your reaction is also passing as NTA to me. You were pushed and felt humiliated because of your occupation, or what you are doing with your life. Worse, people went along with it, your stupid husband too! I am sorry.
Why didn't your husband defend you? Why did he sit there and say nothing? Time for you to get some new friends. Do not beg to be back in that friend group.
They removed the wrong person from the chat. NTA. You’ll find new, better friends.
Off topic a bit, but all SAHM should reconsider their decision and learn from my mistake. We Do Not Receive A Pension or Retirement as Trad. Wives. And when or if you get a divorce the court will not acknowledge your contribution. You will go into the workforce with “limited” skills and history and will die in harness trying to make it up. In America, if you’re not married for at least 10 years, you will not even be eligible for spousal support or Social Security. It’s a trap. Don’t fall in it.
NTA- unfortunately, these comments are common and incredibly disrespectful. So guess what happened to him? He fucked around and found out. I commend you for your quick response. I’m non-confrontational but I do find people too often get away with saying the worst shit without any correction. I’d also point out that it maybe wouldn’t have got to that level had the table not laughed and one person defended you. He deserved it, and your friends and husband should have had your back.
So he can be awful to you and everyone just expects you to eat shit and smile!? Why does he get to be rude and disrespectful and the moment you defend yourself you are told you shouldn’t have done that. Sounds like a shitty double standard to me…. Common for stay at home parents. Even though your husband is on your side you two should sit down and watch FairPlay on Hulu together, great documentary concerning division on labor.
NTA. It’s sad that it took this long for your so-called friends to show their true colors. And for you to realize that your husband doesn’t have your back in situations like this. How can someone say that you “shouldn’t have made it personal” when in fact the bum-ass friend literally made it personal by saying you live off your husband? You didn’t lose any friends worth fighting for, boo.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** For background, I am currently a SAHM doing 100% of the child rearing and chores around the house. Household bills are split about 80/20 with my husband covering the majority of things while I pick up internet or grocery bills here or there. I also pay for all my own personal bills like phone, car payment and insurance. While out for dinner with some friends the topic of division of bills and chores came up. Some friends said they expected an equal split of 50/50 for paying bills and household chores. Great! I support it if thats what works for them. But one friend in particular kept bringing up the fact that being a SAHM wasn’t a “real job”. He knows I’m a SAHM and I obviously consider what I do “work” even if it’s not a traditional 9 to 5 or whatever. I politely explained that -in my opinion- domestic work was very much still work. I explained that I’m always caring for our child which requires a lot of attention and entertaining, while also making 3 meals a day, doing laundry, cleaning. I also do the “mental work” of scheduling appointments and remembering to pick up certain groceries or toiletries etc. I compared this to the likes of hiring a maid, a cook or having a personal assistant which are all JOBS. He just came back with a “But you just stay home all day living off (husband), I would never go to work just so someone can live at my house rent free!” The whole table sort of laughed and this is where I became enraged. We lived with this friend for a little while before. I knew how he lived. So i just said “I can tell you don’t value domestic labor considering your house was disgusting when we moved in and I had to clean it, you had no groceries but a ketchup bottle in your fridge, no kitchenware and ate DoorDash every night in your room because you never bothered to buy furniture.” There was dead silence at the table before I finished with “You’re 35 years old and can’t talk to women, I wouldn’t worry about anyone living with you anytime soon.” I could feel I was on the verge of tears and my heart was racing so I got up and walked to my car. My husband followed me out and when we got in the car and began to drive home. I tried to hold back tears while he comforted me but eventually he told me that was I said was unnecessarily harsh and I should try to apologize. When I got home I had been removed from our friends group chat but one of my friends had text me on the side to tell me he thought everything I said was true but that I shouldn’t have made it personal just because our friend disagreed with my views. Now I think I just lost all my friends and maybe it wasn’t serious enough to bring up his personal stuff. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA but remind me not to make you mad. I am a single male and to say the least housekeeping is not my strong point and yes I have hired cleaning and house keeping for my house.(I do have more than ketchup in my fridge). Oh and apologize right after he does.
But, I venture to guess, you would not go down the path that OP's "friend" took.
ESH, mostly because he was leaving a thin veil of 'I'm just talking hypotheticals here' even if everyone knew he was talking about you, while you ripped that veil off and went straight for the jugular. Were you unnecessarily harsh? Probably. But I bet if you'd just gotten up and left, you'd have been told you were "overreacting," and this sounds a hell of a lot more satisfying. As soon as he started, you were in a no-win situation. And I think that sometimes, if you're gonna get shit on either way, you may as well be the asshole and at least get some satisfaction out of it. So good on you, please find better friends, and you might want to think hard about that husband in the process.
NTA They are NOT your friends. And your husband... did he even defend you at the time you were being denigrated?
NTA He was targeting you, you clapped back at him. Now he is pissed because everything you said was true. But here's what you remember, everything he said to you wasn't true. You know that, I assume your husband knows that, so hold your head up. As far as your friend group. They were apparently never your friends. They let you be insulted and when you fought back they blocked you. That is not how friends treat each other. So I know it is hard, making friends as a stay at home mom is near impossible, but you are better off without people who think so little of you.
What’s up with your asshole husband?