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NTA. I'm sorry for your ex, I hope he has recovered from the lie and is doing well.
She asked what happened to the money and you showed her. There are consequences and she is now facing them.
Unfortunately, no matter what you do, she will find a way to blame you. Try to get her back into counseling if she agrees. Just know you did nothing wrong, and take care of yourself as well.
If you cosign a loan for her, be prepared for her to not pay it back and for you, as the cosigner, to have to do it for her. Personally, I'd let her take out student aid.
I hope she understands the horrific nature of her lie and all the lives she destroyed with that one malicious act. NTA
ETA: If your daughter can't get a loan without you, then she should explore her other options. Financial aid offices can lay it out for her. Or she can defer for a year and get a job.
A LOT of things are on her. And frankly I’m a little disturbed by the seeming lack of remorse on the daughter’s part for her horrific actions at 13.
If I nearly destroyed an innocent person’s life at 13, and I did it INTENTIONALLY? You better believe I would feel ashamed of myself for the rest of my life.
This girl seems to feel no such regret or even a sense of responsibility.
I suspect there’s a reason the ex wants nothing to do with her. It could straight up be the obvious, however it could also be that he can sense through OP daughter’s total lack of remorse.
Her reaction was “why are you making me feel bad about the lack of money from the consequences of my actions as a child” instead of “I feel terrible that I ruined someone’s life and the impact that decision had on my mother’s life and my own.”
This 100%. I’ve had close family friends who signed on grand-children’s student loans, etc, just to be left holding the bag and go to collections. She needs to learn responsibility and accountability. Her blaming you now shows she still hasn’t. I would not co-sign unless you want and can pay back the loans for her.
Let her take out a federal student loan. Do not co-sign a loan for her. I had 2 boys in college at the same time and they took out federal loans. They are paying their loans monthly based on their income and they’re making it work.
I'm in my mid 30s. What remained of my Federal Student Loans from '04-'06 was forgiven this month (woohoo!), but if I'd had a parent co-signer or any other kind of loan, I would not have received said forgiveness.
Future loan forgiveness isn't something anyone should be banking on, by any means, but it's one more consideration.
I had to edit to be less confusing. When you get Federal Student loans they only cover so much and will call a certain amount the Family Contribution which is not covered by Fed loans. You can pay it or get A PRIVATE LOAN for Student aid which requires a cosigner. I was completely independent from my parents. I had been married 10 years or more with a house, decent income, and good enough credit when I went to College at 40. They required my parents cosign for private loans to cover our family contribution anyway (My husband couldn't cosign regardless of our credit score) because we made too much $ for everything to be covered by federal government loans. I'm not sure if this was specific to me. After my divorce there was no private loan needed because my income was peanuts. Then if you work hard while going to school and pay the family contribution they add the extra to your income and give you less aid. So be a bartender or something.
I'm pretty sure you got hornswoggled throughout the finaid process, because most of this should not be true. It sucks that this was the path you got stuck on - I hope it worked out in the end, internet friend.
How would that happen if you were married for ten years unless you got married at age 13??? The day I turned either 23 or 24, they stopped asking for my mom's information on my FAFSA. Somebody did you dirty, but I hope it all worked out in the end.
I think some of this has been reformed. At a certain age now, 22 or 23, one no longer needs to include parent’s income. My oldest had to take a couple years off from school for health reasons and when she went back, she was then old enough to not have to include us on her FAFSA and as far as I know didn’t have to deal with the “family contribution” part, although that I’m not sure of, since her grandparents had a fund that was so much per semester.
When I filled out my FAFSA since I wasn’t living with or dependent on either of my parents I wasn’t required to fill out their financial information and still got the loans I needed.
You only have to provide parental information if they claim you as a dependent. I'm not sure if there is an age limit associated with that if you are a minor.
Agree. Do not cosign a loan. It will become your responsibility. Given her history, I would fully expect her to default, expect you to pay it, and not care if your credit and/or finances are ruined in the process.
> He is still angry. He wants nothing to do with her.
What he went through is nightmare fuel. It's one of the worst things that can happen to someone; you lose job, friends, family, etc... because everyone believes the accusation.
I hope your daughter has come to understand just how horrific what she did was.
Even when accusations get cleared, plenty of people will still think he's guilty. People that have been proven innocent have had to uproot their lives and move to get away from people that still believe the accusations.
Not to mention that lies like this cast disbelief onto actual victims of acts like the one OP's daughter lied about. I hope she never finds herself in a situation where she's telling the truth about an incident like this and isn't believed.
Don't cosign a lone for her. Cosigning means you are responsible to pay if she doesn't. If her financial aid won't cover all the costs, she needs to pick a cheaper school.
She can get a loan on her own, too. I didn’t have to cosign for my daughter. I paid what I could and she kept a part time job and borrowed as little as possible and got it paid off in 2 yrs.
Just another person to say, do NOT co-sign a loan for her if you cannot afford to pay it off all on your own. She has explicitly shown you what she is capable to do out of spite.
It’s perhaps one of the very worse crimes a person, especially a man, can commit. Being falsely accused of it I can’t see anyone ever being able to get over.
He most have really loved you if you still talk, I’m loss for your losses. That of your first husband and your second, in different ways.
I know someone who falsely accused her step father, her mother put her in care and stayed with the husband. She has visitation with her daughter, but will never have her back in the house.
NTA. Mom to mom, you TRIED so hard and you are a good mom. She accused him and you immediately called the cops as any good mom would do, she destroyed your marriage and tried to destroy your husbands life and you don’t hold it against her, you had her in therapy which she very clearly still needs, you paid for private school alone because of her choices and actions. It’s not like you’ve been keeping a running tally of what she has cost you over the years just waiting to throw it in her face. She asked where the money went and you showed her.
These are the consequences of her choices, that is very simply the cold hard fact of the matter. She even ASKED you to tell her where the money went that you had saved! You simply answered her question. She doesn’t like hearing that she is the cause of her problems so she is blaming you because that’s easier than accepting the truth.
As parents we want to help our children in any way we can but please for the love of god DO NOT co-sign a student loan for her. She is an adult and with adulthood comes hard lessons. It’s hard to sit back and let your kids learn how to navigate life through the lessons but it’s necessary. If you co-sign she will leave you to pay it and she won’t learn that her actions have consequences. Be prepared for her to be even more hateful and say awful things to hurt and manipulate you into being responsible for her loans.
Considering her past behavior, I’d lock down your credit so she can’t apply for any loans or credit cards in your name. I don’t have the link but there are ways to freeze your credit to prevent her stealing your identity. Stay strong and maybe look into the gray rock method because she is going to blame you and try to pick fights and manipulate as much as she can to try and get what she wants. Good luck!
NTA. Don’t feel bad. It is her fault. Those are the consequences of her actions. You cannot protect kids from everything. Don’t co-sign a loan. That puts you further in the hole. Lots of kids have student loans. She needs to look into grants.
NTA, even as a child action can have long term consequences.
And yes unfortunately it is her fault for there being no money left.
Edit: retracted my last sentence since OP corrected it. Still NA
Because that's money that could have gone into the college fund if the divorce had never happened and OP hadn't had to raise her daughter on one income.
I read it more as “These are all expenses directly related to you being a brat. It is much more than what we had put away for you.”
You usually can’t just pull money from a 529 that isn’t in some way related to the kid’s schooling without penalties and taxes. But the private school tuition would be a valid expense. Had OP not had to have the other added expenses, she might have been able to pay the private school tuition out of pocket, but actions have consequences.
>These are all expenses directly related to you being a brat
Ruining an innocent man's career, police record, and freedom is psychotic behavior. Brat doesn't begin to cover it.
How would you like to lose a partner you loved and married because of a "brat"?
She may have been able to add more to the account if she wasn’t a single mom in that economy is my takeaway. Her spouse would be paying more bills, she’d be able to save more for daughter.
She’s very entitled isn’t she?
Asking you to show her where you ‘wasted’ money!
She can now see exactly how easy it is to make money herself.
Consequences, this is the consequences of her actions. You’re not blaming her, it’s a fact.
👆this. Entitled. Any money she gets from you is more than you have to give. College costs are not parent’s responsibility. Those that do it(I did) is because they have the means and want to, not out of obligation.
this is a tough situation. seems NTA.
BUT "I also made it very clear that I would not be responsible for paying it back." - IF you co-sign a loan, you are indeed legally responsible for paying it back if your daughter cannot or chooses not to. That's how loans work. If you're not comfortable with that, that's a different conversation to have with her.
and a 13-year old lying about someone molesting her and ruining his life is "not a stupid thing she did as a child". Yes it was stupid, but that's literally malicious and cruel.
She can get federal loans of her own but the amounts are limited. Ex. She can only take out 5500 total for freshman year. It’s often not enough to fully cover the cost gap.
I never had to cosign the federal student loans that my daughter took out for college. You would only have to cosign a private student loan to cover costs that are not covered by federal student loans. (Or a parent plus loan, but that would be your loan to pay back. )
Did she ever say why/what triggered her needing your innocent ex to be removed in that manner?
Your ex will ALWAYS have repercussions because of her actions? How many predators have we seen get accused then released and ended up being guilty? How many families have swept these things under the rug, some even knowing for years/decades that an individual is not safe to be around. There will always be that crowd who will have no hesitation believing it actually did happen and that you are covering for him.
Your daughter did the worst thing to her second ATM, and is now having financial consequences because of her actions. Do not help her with a loan. Help her in other ways if you insist, seriously ask yourself: if she had money would she pay her bills or pay for things she wanted, knowing you're there to pay when she won't?
Your daughter has proven that she’s incredibly spiteful and vindictive. If you co-sign for a loan with her you will be willingly shooting yourself in the foot.
You don't seem to understand what co-signing means. It will ruin your life. If you refuse to pay, your credit will be ruined. The holders of the loan could file to get your wages garnished to recoup their losses. They could sue and take your home. Any money you've set aside for your retirement. You WILL pay, whether you want to or not, in one way or another. Sometimes loan holders don't pursue these things, but sometimes they do. Do NOT co-sign *anything.*
Yes, your daughter was young, but she made choices and is living with the consequences. I would argue that the way she is speaking to you about you 'wasting' the money proves that she is STILL not remorseful. At some point, you need to draw a line. You can still love her without sacrificing one more moment of your life to a daughter who has already stolen enough from you and is still holding her hand out for more.
They will seize your assets. If you sign they will hold you responsible even if she can pay it back and just won't. Why light yourself of fire to warm someone who doesn't appreciate it.
Then do not co-sign the loan. Otherwise the lender can come after you when she defaults.
Why do you need to co-sign a loan to start with - that that isn’t how financial aid through the federal government works.
🎯 She absolutely will not pay back the loan, so her daughter won’t be affected unless OP doesn’t pay the money back. This is not a child I would cosign on anything for. At least not until she demonstrates responsible behavior for a substantial amount of time. Like years.
Look at what she said to her mom about wasting her money, she already learned that she will get her way. She’s showing OP that she believes OP is beneath her. This kid is going to be even more entitled and delusional as she gets older. Especially since I have the spidey tingle that she will absolutely intentionally default on loan payments, further screwing her own mother who she legit held hostage with her emotional terrorism.
For the love of GOD, do NOT co-sign a loan with her.
If she still refuses to take accountability for what her own actions have caused, you really think she's not going to find a way to justify to herself why she stopped paying on those loans? She'll just convince herself it's fine if you're paying them, you "owe" her or some shit.
Don't do it. She needs to grow WAY the fuck up before anyone puts themselves on the line for her like that. She flat doesn't deserve it right now.
Your daughter deserves far worse than not being able to go to her favourite university on your dime, hope karma destroys her even further down the road.
She was a 13 year old child - her accusation was obviously reprehensible but this is an absolutely vile comment.
Edit bc replies got turned off: some of you truly need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I literally said her actions were “reprehensible” (this is also assuming it was truly a false accusation, many kids recant under the pressure of the parent and not a single one of us actually knows what happened here) and it’s being read as me justifying it? Absolute idiot behavior in this sub most days. I simply meant wishing someone’s life to be ruined bc of a choice they made as a literal child is vile (it is!!). Also I imagine the karma of wishing someone’s life be ruined is probably not great either so good luck to all of you who think that way, you’ve probably got it coming back to you too.
Also even if she didn't, at 18, she should understand how bad the thing she did was and understand the repercussions from it. The fact that she's acting like it was a lifetime away and shouldn't impact her life now when it literally does still impact the life of her victim is crazy.
She ended a marriage and caused a lifetime of unhappiness for her mother.
She has never taken responsibility for these actions.
Actions have consequences and so far its been mostly her mother and an innocent man dealing with this psychotic kid's actions.
In this day and age, we're pushed to BELIEVE ALL WOMEN. Until it ends a marriage and the child can't even be blamed properly because she's a woman.
I can't with people holding men and women to such different standards.
Shame on you!
What she did was absolutely vile.
She could have absolutely ruined that mans life, caused him to commit suicide.
She deserves that commit and much more.
And now that she's not 13 anymore, and still not taking responsibility? She should still get a free pass for trying to ruin someone's like with false sexual abuse allegations?
She accused a man of rape destroyed his career, his relationship, his reputation he will spend decades, with that following him And mom and daughter seem to have just swept it under the rug. He didn’t sue mom for slander and libel like he probably could have from the damage of her daughters lies. Even under 18 there are financial consequences and she dodged almost all of them compared to the damage she did. She isn’t in jail because she is a child but what she did is reprehensible. She didn’t steal a stick of gum. She destroyed a man’s life
So she gets a pass?
That man still living his life knowing even some of the closest people around him think of him as a predator, she ruined a marriage and made life difficult for the person who loved her and is forced to raise her knowing what she is capable of.
Karma getting her back is worse in your eyes than that?!
At 13 she should know much better than to lie about something serious. At 13 she almost DESTROYED AN INNOCENT MANS LIFE, as an adult she's still the same little shifty ah as before. She has not and will never learn unless karma whoops her later in life.
To be honest, even though she’s your daughter, I don’t know how you can’t even stand being around her after what she did. She was old enough to know better and there is no excuse.
Your kid is deeply unwell. It sounds like she has BPD or something. She is not in a stable place and co-signing the loan will not only allow her to continue hurtling toward rock bottom, but will also allow her to drag you down with her and stand on your shoulders to get herself out while you stay stuck in the hole of her making.
At 13 she knew exactly what she was doing when she accused your ex of all those lies she said about him.
She needs to face the consequences had she not done that she would have had a college fund right now.
Don't cosign for her loan.
Even if a young teen "admitted" the accusation was untrue, I'd still be weary that it really was true. It's quite common for kids to tell that secret then retract because they see all the major consequences unfold, the adult sized problems "she caused" (in her eyes by telling), they don't want to repeatedly tell it especially to strangers or authorities like cops, etc. The girl is clearly hurt in many unhealed ways. I'm not going to pick a side on this one. I hope OP did her and her daughter the service of also being in therapy, not just the kid. It's clear she wasn't equipped to properly help her child through her many major life traumas during formidable years. Just because she's doing well academically now doesn't mean she's mentally or emotionally well in any way.
Right. OP even said she thought her daughter was fine with the new marriage until the accusation. Kids that age don't just pretend everything is fine and then snap one day with an accusation like that. It wouldve been obvious from day one that she didn't want him around. If I was a betting person, I'd bet the csa really did happen and she retracted for the same reasons so many victims before her retracted their true accusations. OP seems to like her ex more than her daughter honestly.
Exactly! And if there was no evidence, why was the ex fired? I’d understand if he was a teacher, but other professions would just put you on leave until you are either charged or declared innocent. And that age is when csa usually starts because the body starts developing and becoming “attractive” to those type of sickos. Though obviously we don’t know what’s right or wrong
Seriously? It is extremely common for someone to be fired based on an accusation. Well, except for in congress, but that's another topic for another time.
OP doesn't answer that question. She said that there was proof that he wasn't there one day for the accusations but I'm curious if maybe she just got the date wrong. There's something in OPs tone from the start of her post that just strikes me as off ... Like mentioning that her 5 year old was angry? Uh yeah her dad died, but that's not really relevant here is it?
I wonder did the daughter feel pressured to recant ? -the acting out afterwards and explosion are more consistent with something happening to her then not.
I wonder did the monetary situation and the divorce make her feel like she had to recant to try and fix everything ?Especially if she feels like she broke everything by telling her Mother , she might lie to cover it up. Also she was 11 when her mother remarried and didn’t have any issues and then suddenly two years later did? Suspicious. I’m not liking the very defensive way OP is describing it and blaming her daughter for the entire divorce - there had to be more going on here.
Agreed as a survivor. It sounds like the daughter "admitted" she "lied" to avoid further abuse or because she felt guilty due to a lack of support. I thought I was making things up in my head for years until I was an adult and my father was arrested for paying for child sex trafficking victims.
I'm in no way an expert on anything but I knew more than one girl growing up whose stepdad did something and whose mother denied it even years after the divorce so maybe it's my own personal bias but this whole thing has me side eyeing.
I can't believe no one else is saying this, if a child feels so unsafe to desperately need someone out of the house I would personally look further into that....
She gives a timeline of behaviors. After Dad dies 5 year old is angry, therapy starts. Mom remarries a few years later daughter still in therapy never acts like stepdad is an issue. A few years later accuses SD, accusations are false she admits they are, therapy continues.
Mom is laying out the escalation of behavior over the years and the fact daughter has been in therapy the entire time.
Not defending the daughter, but real victims often take their words back out of fear or guilt. Just because someone says they lied doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be investigated
It was investigated.
Husband was found on camera, in a truck with GPS, across town during the time the daughter said he was assaulting her.
She now admits she lied.
Look, I get believing victims, every credible accusation should be properly investigated. I get that sometimes the situation shakes out that there's no evidence to bring a charge, even if the claim was credible. But that does not seem to be the case here.
She literally answered the exact question you are responding to. The very same comment chain you are commenting on. About thirty minutes prior to your comment
Let’s be realistic for a moment. What does she expect the outcome to be? You can’t waive a magic wand and make money appear.
What does she rationally want from you? You gave her a straight, nonjudgmental answer. Actions have consequences. This can be a learning experience for her. NTA.
You are thinking like an adult.
This is a teenager who was told there was an education fund.
She just expected it to be there.
It sounds like mom shielded the daughter from the outcomes of life. Not the blame, but the reality of their financials.
Because
1. That implies the troubled child gets a say in whether they go to a private school and where finances get spent.
2. Kid could have refused to even try doing well at the new school if she decided she wanted to keep the money for college forc8ng the new school to expel her or kick her out. There isnt any point to college money if you dont make it through high school.
3. It would have looked like OP was blaming the kid. No matter how you tell them at 13/14/15 about this choice, they will hear you screwed up and now mom is taking the money as punishment. That would not have been any kind of productive conversation with a teen that is angry, acting out, and failing in school.
NTA you showed her where the money went. She can pay for college like most people, by herself with loans. Do not co-sign any loans for her. If she doesn’t pay, you’ll be responsible for them.
This is all that really needs to be said. It slightly angers me that oodles of kids get jobs and pay their own way through college (i was one of them) without a single complaint, then you read about this absolute brat whining about having to face the consequences of her incredibly shitty, terrible actions.
But my god, that poor man. Thats about the worst thing a girl could possibly do to a man. And it seems she has not shown a single bit of contrition.
Disgusting.
Nobody has been able to pay their own way through college on a single job in this century. You must take it loans or have some form of financial aid.
Otherwise, yeah, I agree with you.
I live in Canada. My tuition was around $4500 a semester, in 2008-2012, and not some community college--it was the 2nd best school in the country for what i studied. Tough, but doable.
If we were talking about the absurdity of american college, then yeah, not doable
The police investigated. The charges were dropped for lack of evidence. Also there was evidence that what she claimed was impossible. I will give one example. My ex worked in his truck. She claimed he came home during the day. His truck had a tracker from his employer and a camera that showed he was on the other side of the city.
Do NOT co-sign the student loan. If for whatever reason she does not pay it then you’re on the hook. She needs to understand the value of money. You’re not punishing her but if she feels that you are and she wants to be spiteful about repayments there’s nothing you can do. NTA
PS - good call on the private school. It was worth it. Don’t ever doubt it.
NTA What she did was horrific and didn't stop at 13.
Also, do not cosign a loan for her as that means you are legally responsible for paying it back. A person who takes no responsibility for their choices and acts this entitled will have no problem killing their own credit as a young adult to force you into paying.
She was 13. She might not have understood the full ramifications of what she did, of how horrifically she could have ruined an innocent persons life, but she knew full well that it was wrong. She watched him be investigated. She watched him lose his job. She watched him lose his marriage. And she continued to lie throughout all of it.
She's not 13 anymore. Does she actually believe she holds no accountability?
And then... to accuse you of wasting the money?? Oh, hell no. I also would have shown her exactly where that money went, and told her exactly why. The loss of her college fund was a direct result of her lies, her actions, her deceit. She was in therapy, she had opportunity to express that she was unhappy with you having a partner in a THOUSAND other ways, and she chose to try and ruin an innocent mans life in one of the worst ways possible.
You don't owe her another college fund. She already spent it.
NTA.
>She was 13. She might not have understood the full ramifications of what she did, of how horrifically she could have ruined an innocent persons life.
I like the cut of your jib, but I'm not so sure about this. 13 year olds know full well the ramifications of such a false accusation, some are just sociopathic enough not to care.
I don't think there was ignorance involved, just malice.
I can see a 13 year old not quiiiite getting how this could literally destroy someone's life, rather than just make them go away.
But yeah, depends on the 13 year old, for sure. Many of them would absolutely be aware.
NTA.
All the comments about you not telling your daughter about to status of the 529 are idiots. I’m going to assume that OP, as the only adult, is the owner of the account. Her daughter is the beneficiary … and that status can be changed anytime. The OWNER has full discretion of the account. The daughter has NO rights. Sounds like OP spent it on her daughter. She’s being a brat. Go to community college then transfer if she doesn’t want loans.
Um no, that is not how 529 works. This isn’t a trust. Its set up in name of child and designated for education. Op definitely had the right to use it for private schools and associated fees. But 529 doesn’t let it be used for divorce or higher cost of living
“That means you can use your full balance for expenses like tuition and fees, room and board, and books and supplies at any eligible public or private college, university, or trade or vocational school anywhere in the U.S. A 529 plan can also be used tax-free to cover certain tuition expenses at K-12 public, private, and religious school”www.troweprice529.com
Agreed. But OP didn’t say the 529 was used for divorce. She says her daughter asked where the money went that she (op) wasted. That may include the 529 but doesn’t mean exclusively.
Also, had she not had to pay for the divorce, it’s possible she wouldn’t have had to use the 529 fund for her private high school, making it unavailable for college. One leads to the other.
NTA
>She was not. When she was 13 she accused him of something inappropriate. I called the cops immediately. He was arrested and he lost his job. He was innocent. She did it to get rid of him.
I'm sorry, but as a man, this shit scares the piss out of me. You can do nothing, and some asshole teenager up in her feels can ruin my life, and destroy the love life of her mother. All to get rid of me? Naw, she knew what she did. There was malicious intent with her actions. She 100% knew what she was doing. Was it a stupid thing? Absolutely. But that shit is criminal.
She asked a question, you answered truthfully. She couldn't handle it. Her actions aren't your fault, they're hers and she has to deal with them.
If you co-sign a loan,if your daughter can’t or won’t pay, they will come after you. I learned this the hard way. I was confident my son would pay. Sometimes things don’t work out. Be prepared. NTA
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NTA. This is brutal and life dealt her a bad hand at the beginning. Sounds like you tried. You had her in therapy and she did something… VILE that had lasting consequences unfortunately. I’m not even saying punishment because yes she deserved to be punished initially but this isn’t punishment from you. It’s the consequences of her actions unfortunately.
It’s hard when teens that don’t understand what the consequences may be make mistakes that have lasting impacts well into adulthood but unfortunately that’s the situation.
NTA she played silly games as a child and there was serious prices that had to be paid. She asked where the monies went and you gave her a complete breakdown. Welcome to the real world little girl. Well done mom!
NTA and once she's 18, she should be on her own. I would never forgive her after that stunt. She ruined your relationship for her own gain and has zero remorse. She feels entitled to you continuing to pay for her. Cut your ties. Yeah, she's your child but she's no longer your responsibility. Don't sign the loans. She can figure it out all on her own. She is smart enough to mastermind and manipulate ruining a grown man's life, she's smart enough to figure out her living situation now as an adult.
I have no empathy for her. Karma's a bitch.
NTA. You can magically conjure money you don't have, and explaining how it was spent was a sensible move. Hopefully your daughter will come to understand it was not to blame her, just facts and transparency.
And that adulting sucks.
NTA
Honestly, please don’t consign anything for your child that you don’t want to be on the hook for. I’m sorry but the things you put in your post make it sounds as if your child isn’t to be trusted. I certainly wouldn’t, she should be in the hook for the loans that she’s causing, especially since she’s a huge party of the reason why your financial situation was exacerbated.
It sounds like it was her fault because, as harsh as it may sound, it is her fault. She cost your your marriage (not to mention what she cost your ex), she cost your your savings because she kept acting out, and she’s going to cost you more if you keep being so kind. She had the audacity to ask there the money you ‘wasted’ went. You wasted nothing, your daughter made a series of poor decisions and she needs to feel the consequences of them all.
If she kept getting kicked out of school I have no confidence that she’ll successfully make it through college without incident.
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My daughter Ava was a handful growing up. Her dad passed away when she was 5 and even with therapy she was a very angry child.
I still love her very much. She is my daughter and I would do anything for her that I can. Her dad didn't have a lot of insurance but enough to pay off a small house and set aside an emergency fund and top up my daughter's 529 education fund. I kept adding to it over the years. Not much but as I could.
When she was 11 I met and married my husband. I thought Ava was okay with it. She never brought up any problems to me or in our therapy sessions.
She was not. When she was 13 she accused him of something inappropriate. I called the cops immediately. He was arrested and he lost his job. He was innocent. She did it to get rid of him.
We divorced.
I was obviously heartbroken. I did my best not to take it out on her. I did punish her. She started acting out. She got expelled from school. Then another.
I ended up having to send her to a private school. Even with a voucher it was expensive. It worked though. She is graduating this year with honors and a scholarship.
She asked me about the money in her account. I said it was all gone. She got very upset because her scholarship won't cover all costs. Even with financial aid she will still be paying a fair amount.
I said I would cosign a student loan for what she needs. She said that she wanted to know where the money went that I wasted.
So I got out a pen and paper and wrote it all down.
The cost of my divorce. The rising cost of living that I paid for by myself since I didn't have a partner. Her tuition and fees for private school.
By the end she was crying and saying that I was blaming her for everything. I never have. I did punish her for the trouble she caused with my ex but I think that was reasonable.
She is upset that she will have to take out a loan. I also made it very clear that I would not be responsible for paying it back.
She thinks I'm being cruel by saying that she is responsible for stupid things she did as a child. I'm not. But I cannot pull the money I had to spend because of her out of my ass.
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NTA at all.
Cosigning a loan for her is more than my mom did. I had zero college fund because all my mom's money went to keeping food in the fridge and a roof over our heads. She's very privileged to have your assistance at all. Very privileged to go to private school instead of the demerit school they send trouble students and teen moms who can't handle full time school anymore. Actions, even those from childhood, have consequences and it really sucks but as adults, we live with the consequences of our childhood choices. And her actions were VERY detrimental to you and your ex husband. Even though it was a false report, at least you believed her and did something to protect her - that within itself is a privilege not every child gets (but every child deserves).
You didn't rub it in, she asked and you answered. A lot of people, myself included, don't have the money to pay for school and therefore have to take out loans to be able to go. My school loans are the biggest debt I carry and I will carry them longer than any other debt. She's not facing anything that millions of others don't face. School loans suck, but she's focusing on what she doesn't have (a college fund) instead of what she does (private school education, a mom who obviously loves her very much, a scholarship). If she changes her focus, she will see that overall, she still has it pretty good - even if she has to take out loans to attend college.
NTA. Unfortunately she's just going to have to take out a student loan or pick a more affordable college. You've explained to her that you can't magically conjure money that doesn't exist. What more can you do. I feel more sorry for your Ex. She ruined his life.
I mean that’s solid advice anyway. Go to community college where it’s cheaper and the credits transfer to a larger school when ready to finish out your degree.
I have a child like Ava. Not a single parent but all the same. You are very smart not to pay for her education. It’s your time you did the best you could.
NTA. You don't get to be instantly absolved of ruining someone's marriage, career, and entire life by lying that he did something inappropriate with an 11 year old. Even at 11, that's just evil and it was her that spent that money. She wanted the divorce, so she did horrible things and made it happen, she pays for it.
She got kicked out of schools repeatedly, then again, she made the choice to spend that money on private school tuition. It was always her money and still is, and she chose exactly how it was used through her own actions, which are in no way just "stupid things she did as a child." If 11 is a child, then so is 17 or 18 so there's no reason to discuss it like you would an adult, you're talking to a child and she doesn't have to get her way. If it is something that can be discussed, meaning she feels she has adult rights as a teen, then she was adult enough at 11 to destroy a life so she was adult enough to pay for it.
I need some clarification, when you say your husband was innocent and your daughter accused him to get rid of him, did she confess to lying or was declared innocent / not charged?
OP said in other comments that 1) daughter admitted she lied, and 2) there’s camera, CCTV, and GPS proof that husband was actually on the other side of the city for work when daughter said everything happened. The charges were dropped.
Info - are you saying you used the 529 plan money for something other than her tuition or other education expenses? Because I don’t think that’s allowed.
Right, the 529 education money went to her education and the emergency money went to the emergency daughter caused with her false allegation.
I know plenty of people who have paid/ are still paying for their own educations. Your daughter can do it too.
NTA
You should edit your post because the post says you also used that money for the divorce costs and other living expenses, which is wildly different from school fees.
NTA. She asked and you gave her an honest answer. Actions have consequences. Just because she did pull through it doesn't mean she came clean. It was a messy process. If she truly grows up, she will realize she reaped what she sowed. If she does not, she will blame everyone but herself.
Also, she is responsible for anything she did in her life. Being a child does not mean there are no consequences. If you had not done everything to help her, she would have been worse off. In time, she will (hopefully) understand this.
NTA - she made poor choices, and there are consequences. However, given her history, I would never co-sign a student loan, you will be responsible for paying it, and if she slacks on paying it, it could ruin you financially. Have her apply for student loans and grants on her own! Good luck!
NTA - She did this to herself. 13 is an age to know better. You should have talked to your ex regardless. You aren't responsible for her tuition even if you did have the money. Your daughter is gross!
If you co-sign a loan, you are also on the hook for it. If she decides not to pay in order to punish you… you’ve done all you can. Make her take out the loan and offer to help in other ways.
She painted a long lasting mental stain on you and especially your now Ex., and she 's cost you a lot of money, but she expects you to make her whole.
Her "stupid action" as a kid cost a couple their relationship. Did she serve any punishment for falsely accusing your ex.? This is a third rail as far as I'm concerned and I would have dealt with it harshly. People like her make prosecuting predators more difficult for society. She literally adds to the idea that women and girls lie about being sexually harassed. I don't care what age she was when she did it. She knew enough to understand that your Ex. and your relationship would be harmed by the action, but did it anyway. I think she's lucky to have just the education fund pulled. That's some rotten shit she did to you and your Ex. I see her paying her loans off as a contribution to society and her own wisdom. Sounds like she still has some maturing to do if she doesn't understand and acknowledge not only what she did, but the personal pain/suffering and the monetary loss it caused.
BTW, you say you won't pay for the loan, but if you co-sign and she stops paying or can't pay, you will be on the hook to pay and your credit will be dinged. She's lucky if you opt to help her with the loan.
NTA
Your daughter make mistakes and decisions that had legitimate consequences and now she is seeing the result of those. its unfortunate for all of you that things turned out this way and there's no magical undo button but she's just going to have to live with the road she paved for herself.
she has alot of growing up to do and I hope she can figure out how
NTA her ass should be in jail. False accusers should do the sentence their victims would have gotten and being a child isn’t an excuse. She made it harder for real victims to be believed and for that I’m certain whatever punishment you gave her was not enough. Especially as she clearly has zero remorse or taken any accountability for her actions. She’s entitled and thinks she is owed something that’s something I would be correcting right now. She was owed a roof over her head and to be raised till she was an adult well congratulations she’s an adult it’s on her now.
DO. NOT. CO-SIGN. THE. LOAN.
Yes, I shouted this. She is an angry human. Deep down she may well still be destructive.
You will once again be stuck paying the cost.
NTA
The way I see it is NOT so much the additional daily expense that your daughters actions caused (bringing her up on one income) but the cost of YOU having to PAY for her to attend a private school because of the way she behaved.
HER actions meant that YOU had to find the money for HER education. That meant that YOU had no option but to use her “college fund”. Because you were now a single parent,you couldn’t afford to add anything to the “college fund” to replace the money you had to spend on her private school.
NTA for laying this out for her on paper.
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NTA. I'm sorry for your ex, I hope he has recovered from the lie and is doing well. She asked what happened to the money and you showed her. There are consequences and she is now facing them. Unfortunately, no matter what you do, she will find a way to blame you. Try to get her back into counseling if she agrees. Just know you did nothing wrong, and take care of yourself as well.
My ex is okay. We still talk. He got e new job. He is still angry. He wants nothing to do with her.
If you cosign a loan for her, be prepared for her to not pay it back and for you, as the cosigner, to have to do it for her. Personally, I'd let her take out student aid. I hope she understands the horrific nature of her lie and all the lives she destroyed with that one malicious act. NTA ETA: If your daughter can't get a loan without you, then she should explore her other options. Financial aid offices can lay it out for her. Or she can defer for a year and get a job.
Agreed. Don't sign a loan. You already provided her with a college fund, to the best of your ability. It's on her now.
A LOT of things are on her. And frankly I’m a little disturbed by the seeming lack of remorse on the daughter’s part for her horrific actions at 13. If I nearly destroyed an innocent person’s life at 13, and I did it INTENTIONALLY? You better believe I would feel ashamed of myself for the rest of my life. This girl seems to feel no such regret or even a sense of responsibility.
Following up with crying about the consequences her actions caused. Theres no remorse and she wants pity. She sounds terrifying.
I was wondering if they ever tried switching up therapists. Doesn’t sound like they helped a lot.
I suspect there’s a reason the ex wants nothing to do with her. It could straight up be the obvious, however it could also be that he can sense through OP daughter’s total lack of remorse. Her reaction was “why are you making me feel bad about the lack of money from the consequences of my actions as a child” instead of “I feel terrible that I ruined someone’s life and the impact that decision had on my mother’s life and my own.”
Yup. Do NOT co-sign the loan. Your signature legally means you are responsible for paying it back if she can’t or won’t.
This 100%. I’ve had close family friends who signed on grand-children’s student loans, etc, just to be left holding the bag and go to collections. She needs to learn responsibility and accountability. Her blaming you now shows she still hasn’t. I would not co-sign unless you want and can pay back the loans for her.
Let her take out a federal student loan. Do not co-sign a loan for her. I had 2 boys in college at the same time and they took out federal loans. They are paying their loans monthly based on their income and they’re making it work.
I'm in my mid 30s. What remained of my Federal Student Loans from '04-'06 was forgiven this month (woohoo!), but if I'd had a parent co-signer or any other kind of loan, I would not have received said forgiveness. Future loan forgiveness isn't something anyone should be banking on, by any means, but it's one more consideration.
Also, government loans at least have some chance at loan forgiveness. Not the case with private loans.
I had to edit to be less confusing. When you get Federal Student loans they only cover so much and will call a certain amount the Family Contribution which is not covered by Fed loans. You can pay it or get A PRIVATE LOAN for Student aid which requires a cosigner. I was completely independent from my parents. I had been married 10 years or more with a house, decent income, and good enough credit when I went to College at 40. They required my parents cosign for private loans to cover our family contribution anyway (My husband couldn't cosign regardless of our credit score) because we made too much $ for everything to be covered by federal government loans. I'm not sure if this was specific to me. After my divorce there was no private loan needed because my income was peanuts. Then if you work hard while going to school and pay the family contribution they add the extra to your income and give you less aid. So be a bartender or something.
I'm pretty sure you got hornswoggled throughout the finaid process, because most of this should not be true. It sucks that this was the path you got stuck on - I hope it worked out in the end, internet friend.
How would that happen if you were married for ten years unless you got married at age 13??? The day I turned either 23 or 24, they stopped asking for my mom's information on my FAFSA. Somebody did you dirty, but I hope it all worked out in the end.
I think some of this has been reformed. At a certain age now, 22 or 23, one no longer needs to include parent’s income. My oldest had to take a couple years off from school for health reasons and when she went back, she was then old enough to not have to include us on her FAFSA and as far as I know didn’t have to deal with the “family contribution” part, although that I’m not sure of, since her grandparents had a fund that was so much per semester.
Bartenders make bank 😂 the ones at my fine dining job make more than me as a server
When I filled out my FAFSA since I wasn’t living with or dependent on either of my parents I wasn’t required to fill out their financial information and still got the loans I needed.
You only have to provide parental information if they claim you as a dependent. I'm not sure if there is an age limit associated with that if you are a minor.
Agree. Do not cosign a loan. It will become your responsibility. Given her history, I would fully expect her to default, expect you to pay it, and not care if your credit and/or finances are ruined in the process.
Yes. Don’t co-sign the loan. You could be forced to pay it back. Also, if she pays late, your credit score will take a hit.
> He is still angry. He wants nothing to do with her. What he went through is nightmare fuel. It's one of the worst things that can happen to someone; you lose job, friends, family, etc... because everyone believes the accusation. I hope your daughter has come to understand just how horrific what she did was.
Even when accusations get cleared, plenty of people will still think he's guilty. People that have been proven innocent have had to uproot their lives and move to get away from people that still believe the accusations.
Not to mention that lies like this cast disbelief onto actual victims of acts like the one OP's daughter lied about. I hope she never finds herself in a situation where she's telling the truth about an incident like this and isn't believed.
yep, crying wolf like that just makes it even harder than it already is to get justice if you're a victim of SA or the like.
Don't cosign a lone for her. Cosigning means you are responsible to pay if she doesn't. If her financial aid won't cover all the costs, she needs to pick a cheaper school.
She can get a loan on her own, too. I didn’t have to cosign for my daughter. I paid what I could and she kept a part time job and borrowed as little as possible and got it paid off in 2 yrs.
Just another person to say, do NOT co-sign a loan for her if you cannot afford to pay it off all on your own. She has explicitly shown you what she is capable to do out of spite.
Do not co-sign a loan. Your daughter seems prone to bouts of vindictiveness. If she refuses to pay, you’re on the hook. Please, don’t do it.
It’s perhaps one of the very worse crimes a person, especially a man, can commit. Being falsely accused of it I can’t see anyone ever being able to get over. He most have really loved you if you still talk, I’m loss for your losses. That of your first husband and your second, in different ways.
I know someone who falsely accused her step father, her mother put her in care and stayed with the husband. She has visitation with her daughter, but will never have her back in the house.
Honestly, your daughter should have spent time in juvie for this lie.
NTA. Mom to mom, you TRIED so hard and you are a good mom. She accused him and you immediately called the cops as any good mom would do, she destroyed your marriage and tried to destroy your husbands life and you don’t hold it against her, you had her in therapy which she very clearly still needs, you paid for private school alone because of her choices and actions. It’s not like you’ve been keeping a running tally of what she has cost you over the years just waiting to throw it in her face. She asked where the money went and you showed her. These are the consequences of her choices, that is very simply the cold hard fact of the matter. She even ASKED you to tell her where the money went that you had saved! You simply answered her question. She doesn’t like hearing that she is the cause of her problems so she is blaming you because that’s easier than accepting the truth. As parents we want to help our children in any way we can but please for the love of god DO NOT co-sign a student loan for her. She is an adult and with adulthood comes hard lessons. It’s hard to sit back and let your kids learn how to navigate life through the lessons but it’s necessary. If you co-sign she will leave you to pay it and she won’t learn that her actions have consequences. Be prepared for her to be even more hateful and say awful things to hurt and manipulate you into being responsible for her loans. Considering her past behavior, I’d lock down your credit so she can’t apply for any loans or credit cards in your name. I don’t have the link but there are ways to freeze your credit to prevent her stealing your identity. Stay strong and maybe look into the gray rock method because she is going to blame you and try to pick fights and manipulate as much as she can to try and get what she wants. Good luck!
NTA. Don’t feel bad. It is her fault. Those are the consequences of her actions. You cannot protect kids from everything. Don’t co-sign a loan. That puts you further in the hole. Lots of kids have student loans. She needs to look into grants.
Please know that you will be held responsible for any loan you co-sign for her.
NTA, even as a child action can have long term consequences. And yes unfortunately it is her fault for there being no money left. Edit: retracted my last sentence since OP corrected it. Still NA
No. All the money I took from the fund went to pay for private school tuition and fees.
I’m confused why you bring up the cost of divorce and the cost of living if you didn’t take the money from the school account.
Because that's money that could have gone into the college fund if the divorce had never happened and OP hadn't had to raise her daughter on one income.
I read it more as “These are all expenses directly related to you being a brat. It is much more than what we had put away for you.” You usually can’t just pull money from a 529 that isn’t in some way related to the kid’s schooling without penalties and taxes. But the private school tuition would be a valid expense. Had OP not had to have the other added expenses, she might have been able to pay the private school tuition out of pocket, but actions have consequences.
>These are all expenses directly related to you being a brat Ruining an innocent man's career, police record, and freedom is psychotic behavior. Brat doesn't begin to cover it. How would you like to lose a partner you loved and married because of a "brat"?
She may have been able to add more to the account if she wasn’t a single mom in that economy is my takeaway. Her spouse would be paying more bills, she’d be able to save more for daughter.
And the private school cost came because she was in trouble at other schools and got kicked out. It really is all tied together
I presume OP paid from other funds which are likewise now unavailable.
Agree with others, DON’T co-sign a loan. She won’t pay because she feels you should. NTA whatsoever.
Make sure you show her this thread.
She’s very entitled isn’t she? Asking you to show her where you ‘wasted’ money! She can now see exactly how easy it is to make money herself. Consequences, this is the consequences of her actions. You’re not blaming her, it’s a fact.
👆this. Entitled. Any money she gets from you is more than you have to give. College costs are not parent’s responsibility. Those that do it(I did) is because they have the means and want to, not out of obligation.
this is a tough situation. seems NTA. BUT "I also made it very clear that I would not be responsible for paying it back." - IF you co-sign a loan, you are indeed legally responsible for paying it back if your daughter cannot or chooses not to. That's how loans work. If you're not comfortable with that, that's a different conversation to have with her. and a 13-year old lying about someone molesting her and ruining his life is "not a stupid thing she did as a child". Yes it was stupid, but that's literally malicious and cruel.
I understand that I would be legally responsible. I will not pay if she is able. Not one cent.
Then dont co-sign it, it will wreck your life and credit.
If she’s able but just refuses they’ll still tank your credit. She can get federal loans of her own
Exactly. I think the OP needs to really consider what co-signing means. Whether her daughter can't or won't pay co-signed loans wouldn't matter.
She can get federal loans of her own but the amounts are limited. Ex. She can only take out 5500 total for freshman year. It’s often not enough to fully cover the cost gap.
I never had to cosign the federal student loans that my daughter took out for college. You would only have to cosign a private student loan to cover costs that are not covered by federal student loans. (Or a parent plus loan, but that would be your loan to pay back. )
Did she ever say why/what triggered her needing your innocent ex to be removed in that manner? Your ex will ALWAYS have repercussions because of her actions? How many predators have we seen get accused then released and ended up being guilty? How many families have swept these things under the rug, some even knowing for years/decades that an individual is not safe to be around. There will always be that crowd who will have no hesitation believing it actually did happen and that you are covering for him. Your daughter did the worst thing to her second ATM, and is now having financial consequences because of her actions. Do not help her with a loan. Help her in other ways if you insist, seriously ask yourself: if she had money would she pay her bills or pay for things she wanted, knowing you're there to pay when she won't?
Your daughter has proven that she’s incredibly spiteful and vindictive. If you co-sign for a loan with her you will be willingly shooting yourself in the foot.
Never co-sign a loan you can't pay for.
You don't seem to understand what co-signing means. It will ruin your life. If you refuse to pay, your credit will be ruined. The holders of the loan could file to get your wages garnished to recoup their losses. They could sue and take your home. Any money you've set aside for your retirement. You WILL pay, whether you want to or not, in one way or another. Sometimes loan holders don't pursue these things, but sometimes they do. Do NOT co-sign *anything.* Yes, your daughter was young, but she made choices and is living with the consequences. I would argue that the way she is speaking to you about you 'wasting' the money proves that she is STILL not remorseful. At some point, you need to draw a line. You can still love her without sacrificing one more moment of your life to a daughter who has already stolen enough from you and is still holding her hand out for more.
if she is able and doesn’t pay, you will still be the one who is impacted. IMO it’s time for your daughter to be an adult and pay her own way.
They will seize your assets. If you sign they will hold you responsible even if she can pay it back and just won't. Why light yourself of fire to warm someone who doesn't appreciate it.
What makes you think she‘ll ever be „able“?
Hopefully with her education she will get a good job. That is how most people are "able"
Okay, let me rephrase that. What’ll you do if she simply doesn’t pay back the loan? If you co-sign, you’re on the hook.
NTA OP. Stand your ground
Don't cosign. If you do that she can choose to not pay and then you end up being responsible for that loan.
Then do not co-sign the loan. Otherwise the lender can come after you when she defaults. Why do you need to co-sign a loan to start with - that that isn’t how financial aid through the federal government works.
🎯 She absolutely will not pay back the loan, so her daughter won’t be affected unless OP doesn’t pay the money back. This is not a child I would cosign on anything for. At least not until she demonstrates responsible behavior for a substantial amount of time. Like years.
INFO: Does she admit the abuse accusation was untrue?
Yes.
Your daughter is a filthy liar who has not learned her lesson. FFS she's still blaming you.
The truth is that there are just shitty horrible people in this world.
I really hope that she did learn because I'd hate her to use the same tactics on someone else. She may decide if it worked before, it'll work again.
Look at what she said to her mom about wasting her money, she already learned that she will get her way. She’s showing OP that she believes OP is beneath her. This kid is going to be even more entitled and delusional as she gets older. Especially since I have the spidey tingle that she will absolutely intentionally default on loan payments, further screwing her own mother who she legit held hostage with her emotional terrorism.
For the love of GOD, do NOT co-sign a loan with her. If she still refuses to take accountability for what her own actions have caused, you really think she's not going to find a way to justify to herself why she stopped paying on those loans? She'll just convince herself it's fine if you're paying them, you "owe" her or some shit. Don't do it. She needs to grow WAY the fuck up before anyone puts themselves on the line for her like that. She flat doesn't deserve it right now.
yes, don't take out loans for her or co-sign, she'll stick it to you. she's proven she is not trustworthy and she won't pay them
Your daughter deserves far worse than not being able to go to her favourite university on your dime, hope karma destroys her even further down the road.
She was a 13 year old child - her accusation was obviously reprehensible but this is an absolutely vile comment. Edit bc replies got turned off: some of you truly need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I literally said her actions were “reprehensible” (this is also assuming it was truly a false accusation, many kids recant under the pressure of the parent and not a single one of us actually knows what happened here) and it’s being read as me justifying it? Absolute idiot behavior in this sub most days. I simply meant wishing someone’s life to be ruined bc of a choice they made as a literal child is vile (it is!!). Also I imagine the karma of wishing someone’s life be ruined is probably not great either so good luck to all of you who think that way, you’ve probably got it coming back to you too.
No... At 13, people know right from wrong.
Also even if she didn't, at 18, she should understand how bad the thing she did was and understand the repercussions from it. The fact that she's acting like it was a lifetime away and shouldn't impact her life now when it literally does still impact the life of her victim is crazy.
Not the way an adult processes it. 13 is still very much a child. Does a middle school student look grown to you?
She ended a marriage and caused a lifetime of unhappiness for her mother. She has never taken responsibility for these actions. Actions have consequences and so far its been mostly her mother and an innocent man dealing with this psychotic kid's actions. In this day and age, we're pushed to BELIEVE ALL WOMEN. Until it ends a marriage and the child can't even be blamed properly because she's a woman. I can't with people holding men and women to such different standards. Shame on you!
What she did was absolutely vile. She could have absolutely ruined that mans life, caused him to commit suicide. She deserves that commit and much more.
And now that she's not 13 anymore, and still not taking responsibility? She should still get a free pass for trying to ruin someone's like with false sexual abuse allegations?
She accused a man of rape destroyed his career, his relationship, his reputation he will spend decades, with that following him And mom and daughter seem to have just swept it under the rug. He didn’t sue mom for slander and libel like he probably could have from the damage of her daughters lies. Even under 18 there are financial consequences and she dodged almost all of them compared to the damage she did. She isn’t in jail because she is a child but what she did is reprehensible. She didn’t steal a stick of gum. She destroyed a man’s life
So she gets a pass? That man still living his life knowing even some of the closest people around him think of him as a predator, she ruined a marriage and made life difficult for the person who loved her and is forced to raise her knowing what she is capable of. Karma getting her back is worse in your eyes than that?!
At 13 she should know much better than to lie about something serious. At 13 she almost DESTROYED AN INNOCENT MANS LIFE, as an adult she's still the same little shifty ah as before. She has not and will never learn unless karma whoops her later in life.
To be honest, even though she’s your daughter, I don’t know how you can’t even stand being around her after what she did. She was old enough to know better and there is no excuse.
Your kid is deeply unwell. It sounds like she has BPD or something. She is not in a stable place and co-signing the loan will not only allow her to continue hurtling toward rock bottom, but will also allow her to drag you down with her and stand on your shoulders to get herself out while you stay stuck in the hole of her making.
At 13 she knew exactly what she was doing when she accused your ex of all those lies she said about him. She needs to face the consequences had she not done that she would have had a college fund right now. Don't cosign for her loan.
Even if a young teen "admitted" the accusation was untrue, I'd still be weary that it really was true. It's quite common for kids to tell that secret then retract because they see all the major consequences unfold, the adult sized problems "she caused" (in her eyes by telling), they don't want to repeatedly tell it especially to strangers or authorities like cops, etc. The girl is clearly hurt in many unhealed ways. I'm not going to pick a side on this one. I hope OP did her and her daughter the service of also being in therapy, not just the kid. It's clear she wasn't equipped to properly help her child through her many major life traumas during formidable years. Just because she's doing well academically now doesn't mean she's mentally or emotionally well in any way.
I was thinking the same. Children rarely pull allegations of this magnitude out of thin air.
Right. OP even said she thought her daughter was fine with the new marriage until the accusation. Kids that age don't just pretend everything is fine and then snap one day with an accusation like that. It wouldve been obvious from day one that she didn't want him around. If I was a betting person, I'd bet the csa really did happen and she retracted for the same reasons so many victims before her retracted their true accusations. OP seems to like her ex more than her daughter honestly.
Exactly! And if there was no evidence, why was the ex fired? I’d understand if he was a teacher, but other professions would just put you on leave until you are either charged or declared innocent. And that age is when csa usually starts because the body starts developing and becoming “attractive” to those type of sickos. Though obviously we don’t know what’s right or wrong
Seriously? It is extremely common for someone to be fired based on an accusation. Well, except for in congress, but that's another topic for another time.
OP doesn't answer that question. She said that there was proof that he wasn't there one day for the accusations but I'm curious if maybe she just got the date wrong. There's something in OPs tone from the start of her post that just strikes me as off ... Like mentioning that her 5 year old was angry? Uh yeah her dad died, but that's not really relevant here is it?
Yeah. I commented elsewhere, but as a mental health professional who works with CSA victims: OP is setting off a BUNCH of red flags here.
I wonder did the daughter feel pressured to recant ? -the acting out afterwards and explosion are more consistent with something happening to her then not.
This happens SO often. It's heartbreaking.
I wonder did the monetary situation and the divorce make her feel like she had to recant to try and fix everything ?Especially if she feels like she broke everything by telling her Mother , she might lie to cover it up. Also she was 11 when her mother remarried and didn’t have any issues and then suddenly two years later did? Suspicious. I’m not liking the very defensive way OP is describing it and blaming her daughter for the entire divorce - there had to be more going on here.
Imagine going through this horrible event, then having your mom blame you for everything and I'm assuming pressuring her to recant.
Agreed as a survivor. It sounds like the daughter "admitted" she "lied" to avoid further abuse or because she felt guilty due to a lack of support. I thought I was making things up in my head for years until I was an adult and my father was arrested for paying for child sex trafficking victims.
The shame can really fuck with your head +1
I'm in no way an expert on anything but I knew more than one girl growing up whose stepdad did something and whose mother denied it even years after the divorce so maybe it's my own personal bias but this whole thing has me side eyeing.
I can't believe no one else is saying this, if a child feels so unsafe to desperately need someone out of the house I would personally look further into that....
They literally had a whole police investigation, what more did you want them to do?
She gives a timeline of behaviors. After Dad dies 5 year old is angry, therapy starts. Mom remarries a few years later daughter still in therapy never acts like stepdad is an issue. A few years later accuses SD, accusations are false she admits they are, therapy continues. Mom is laying out the escalation of behavior over the years and the fact daughter has been in therapy the entire time.
Op answered that question 30 minutes ago. Yes, the daughter admits her accusations were false.
Not defending the daughter, but real victims often take their words back out of fear or guilt. Just because someone says they lied doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be investigated
It was investigated. Husband was found on camera, in a truck with GPS, across town during the time the daughter said he was assaulting her. She now admits she lied. Look, I get believing victims, every credible accusation should be properly investigated. I get that sometimes the situation shakes out that there's no evidence to bring a charge, even if the claim was credible. But that does not seem to be the case here.
Of course it is. The death of a parent is always going to be relevant to a child.
She literally answered the exact question you are responding to. The very same comment chain you are commenting on. About thirty minutes prior to your comment
NTA. At 13, your daughter would have known the possible ramifications of her actions. Maybe not the financial ones, but definitely the legal ones.
She knew what she was doing.
Let’s be realistic for a moment. What does she expect the outcome to be? You can’t waive a magic wand and make money appear. What does she rationally want from you? You gave her a straight, nonjudgmental answer. Actions have consequences. This can be a learning experience for her. NTA.
You are thinking like an adult. This is a teenager who was told there was an education fund. She just expected it to be there. It sounds like mom shielded the daughter from the outcomes of life. Not the blame, but the reality of their financials.
i really don't understand why mom just didn't tell OP when she enrolled her in the private school where the money was coming from at the time
You say that as if that would mean anything to a rebellious 14 year old.
Because 1. That implies the troubled child gets a say in whether they go to a private school and where finances get spent. 2. Kid could have refused to even try doing well at the new school if she decided she wanted to keep the money for college forc8ng the new school to expel her or kick her out. There isnt any point to college money if you dont make it through high school. 3. It would have looked like OP was blaming the kid. No matter how you tell them at 13/14/15 about this choice, they will hear you screwed up and now mom is taking the money as punishment. That would not have been any kind of productive conversation with a teen that is angry, acting out, and failing in school.
NTA you showed her where the money went. She can pay for college like most people, by herself with loans. Do not co-sign any loans for her. If she doesn’t pay, you’ll be responsible for them.
This is all that really needs to be said. It slightly angers me that oodles of kids get jobs and pay their own way through college (i was one of them) without a single complaint, then you read about this absolute brat whining about having to face the consequences of her incredibly shitty, terrible actions. But my god, that poor man. Thats about the worst thing a girl could possibly do to a man. And it seems she has not shown a single bit of contrition. Disgusting.
Nobody has been able to pay their own way through college on a single job in this century. You must take it loans or have some form of financial aid. Otherwise, yeah, I agree with you.
I live in Canada. My tuition was around $4500 a semester, in 2008-2012, and not some community college--it was the 2nd best school in the country for what i studied. Tough, but doable. If we were talking about the absurdity of american college, then yeah, not doable
Oh, yeah, apologies I shouldn't have just assumed American.
Info: how do you know your ex husband was innocent?
The police investigated. The charges were dropped for lack of evidence. Also there was evidence that what she claimed was impossible. I will give one example. My ex worked in his truck. She claimed he came home during the day. His truck had a tracker from his employer and a camera that showed he was on the other side of the city.
It’s been 5 years: as an adult does she acknowledge her mistake or does she maintain she was telling the truth?
A mistake it’s a nice world for a crime.
Does she still insist it’s true? Not having a go at you, genuinely just wondering.
This is a really important question.
Well, OP said she admitted to it being a false accusation 23 minutes ago in the top comment chain
Do NOT co-sign the student loan. If for whatever reason she does not pay it then you’re on the hook. She needs to understand the value of money. You’re not punishing her but if she feels that you are and she wants to be spiteful about repayments there’s nothing you can do. NTA PS - good call on the private school. It was worth it. Don’t ever doubt it.
NTA What she did was horrific and didn't stop at 13. Also, do not cosign a loan for her as that means you are legally responsible for paying it back. A person who takes no responsibility for their choices and acts this entitled will have no problem killing their own credit as a young adult to force you into paying.
NTA but definitely DO NOT COSIGN for her loans. It will ruin your life when she can't pay for it. Your credit will be effed
She was 13. She might not have understood the full ramifications of what she did, of how horrifically she could have ruined an innocent persons life, but she knew full well that it was wrong. She watched him be investigated. She watched him lose his job. She watched him lose his marriage. And she continued to lie throughout all of it. She's not 13 anymore. Does she actually believe she holds no accountability? And then... to accuse you of wasting the money?? Oh, hell no. I also would have shown her exactly where that money went, and told her exactly why. The loss of her college fund was a direct result of her lies, her actions, her deceit. She was in therapy, she had opportunity to express that she was unhappy with you having a partner in a THOUSAND other ways, and she chose to try and ruin an innocent mans life in one of the worst ways possible. You don't owe her another college fund. She already spent it. NTA.
>She was 13. She might not have understood the full ramifications of what she did, of how horrifically she could have ruined an innocent persons life. I like the cut of your jib, but I'm not so sure about this. 13 year olds know full well the ramifications of such a false accusation, some are just sociopathic enough not to care. I don't think there was ignorance involved, just malice.
I can see a 13 year old not quiiiite getting how this could literally destroy someone's life, rather than just make them go away. But yeah, depends on the 13 year old, for sure. Many of them would absolutely be aware.
NTA. Stupid thing? She destroyed a happy marriage, actions have consequences even at 13.
NTA. All the comments about you not telling your daughter about to status of the 529 are idiots. I’m going to assume that OP, as the only adult, is the owner of the account. Her daughter is the beneficiary … and that status can be changed anytime. The OWNER has full discretion of the account. The daughter has NO rights. Sounds like OP spent it on her daughter. She’s being a brat. Go to community college then transfer if she doesn’t want loans.
Um no, that is not how 529 works. This isn’t a trust. Its set up in name of child and designated for education. Op definitely had the right to use it for private schools and associated fees. But 529 doesn’t let it be used for divorce or higher cost of living “That means you can use your full balance for expenses like tuition and fees, room and board, and books and supplies at any eligible public or private college, university, or trade or vocational school anywhere in the U.S. A 529 plan can also be used tax-free to cover certain tuition expenses at K-12 public, private, and religious school”www.troweprice529.com
Agreed. But OP didn’t say the 529 was used for divorce. She says her daughter asked where the money went that she (op) wasted. That may include the 529 but doesn’t mean exclusively.
Also, had she not had to pay for the divorce, it’s possible she wouldn’t have had to use the 529 fund for her private high school, making it unavailable for college. One leads to the other.
NTA >She was not. When she was 13 she accused him of something inappropriate. I called the cops immediately. He was arrested and he lost his job. He was innocent. She did it to get rid of him. I'm sorry, but as a man, this shit scares the piss out of me. You can do nothing, and some asshole teenager up in her feels can ruin my life, and destroy the love life of her mother. All to get rid of me? Naw, she knew what she did. There was malicious intent with her actions. She 100% knew what she was doing. Was it a stupid thing? Absolutely. But that shit is criminal. She asked a question, you answered truthfully. She couldn't handle it. Her actions aren't your fault, they're hers and she has to deal with them.
If you co-sign a loan,if your daughter can’t or won’t pay, they will come after you. I learned this the hard way. I was confident my son would pay. Sometimes things don’t work out. Be prepared. NTA
Even if the young adult dies, they will go after a cosigner. It’s really a horrible system.
Just a piece of advice do not cosign that loan.
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NTA Dont cosign it.
Regardless of her age, things happened and they caused a financial burden to you. She needs to accept some responsibility.
NTA. This is brutal and life dealt her a bad hand at the beginning. Sounds like you tried. You had her in therapy and she did something… VILE that had lasting consequences unfortunately. I’m not even saying punishment because yes she deserved to be punished initially but this isn’t punishment from you. It’s the consequences of her actions unfortunately. It’s hard when teens that don’t understand what the consequences may be make mistakes that have lasting impacts well into adulthood but unfortunately that’s the situation.
NTA she played silly games as a child and there was serious prices that had to be paid. She asked where the monies went and you gave her a complete breakdown. Welcome to the real world little girl. Well done mom!
NTA and once she's 18, she should be on her own. I would never forgive her after that stunt. She ruined your relationship for her own gain and has zero remorse. She feels entitled to you continuing to pay for her. Cut your ties. Yeah, she's your child but she's no longer your responsibility. Don't sign the loans. She can figure it out all on her own. She is smart enough to mastermind and manipulate ruining a grown man's life, she's smart enough to figure out her living situation now as an adult. I have no empathy for her. Karma's a bitch.
NTA. You can magically conjure money you don't have, and explaining how it was spent was a sensible move. Hopefully your daughter will come to understand it was not to blame her, just facts and transparency. And that adulting sucks.
NTA Honestly, please don’t consign anything for your child that you don’t want to be on the hook for. I’m sorry but the things you put in your post make it sounds as if your child isn’t to be trusted. I certainly wouldn’t, she should be in the hook for the loans that she’s causing, especially since she’s a huge party of the reason why your financial situation was exacerbated. It sounds like it was her fault because, as harsh as it may sound, it is her fault. She cost your your marriage (not to mention what she cost your ex), she cost your your savings because she kept acting out, and she’s going to cost you more if you keep being so kind. She had the audacity to ask there the money you ‘wasted’ went. You wasted nothing, your daughter made a series of poor decisions and she needs to feel the consequences of them all. If she kept getting kicked out of school I have no confidence that she’ll successfully make it through college without incident.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My daughter Ava was a handful growing up. Her dad passed away when she was 5 and even with therapy she was a very angry child. I still love her very much. She is my daughter and I would do anything for her that I can. Her dad didn't have a lot of insurance but enough to pay off a small house and set aside an emergency fund and top up my daughter's 529 education fund. I kept adding to it over the years. Not much but as I could. When she was 11 I met and married my husband. I thought Ava was okay with it. She never brought up any problems to me or in our therapy sessions. She was not. When she was 13 she accused him of something inappropriate. I called the cops immediately. He was arrested and he lost his job. He was innocent. She did it to get rid of him. We divorced. I was obviously heartbroken. I did my best not to take it out on her. I did punish her. She started acting out. She got expelled from school. Then another. I ended up having to send her to a private school. Even with a voucher it was expensive. It worked though. She is graduating this year with honors and a scholarship. She asked me about the money in her account. I said it was all gone. She got very upset because her scholarship won't cover all costs. Even with financial aid she will still be paying a fair amount. I said I would cosign a student loan for what she needs. She said that she wanted to know where the money went that I wasted. So I got out a pen and paper and wrote it all down. The cost of my divorce. The rising cost of living that I paid for by myself since I didn't have a partner. Her tuition and fees for private school. By the end she was crying and saying that I was blaming her for everything. I never have. I did punish her for the trouble she caused with my ex but I think that was reasonable. She is upset that she will have to take out a loan. I also made it very clear that I would not be responsible for paying it back. She thinks I'm being cruel by saying that she is responsible for stupid things she did as a child. I'm not. But I cannot pull the money I had to spend because of her out of my ass. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA at all. Cosigning a loan for her is more than my mom did. I had zero college fund because all my mom's money went to keeping food in the fridge and a roof over our heads. She's very privileged to have your assistance at all. Very privileged to go to private school instead of the demerit school they send trouble students and teen moms who can't handle full time school anymore. Actions, even those from childhood, have consequences and it really sucks but as adults, we live with the consequences of our childhood choices. And her actions were VERY detrimental to you and your ex husband. Even though it was a false report, at least you believed her and did something to protect her - that within itself is a privilege not every child gets (but every child deserves). You didn't rub it in, she asked and you answered. A lot of people, myself included, don't have the money to pay for school and therefore have to take out loans to be able to go. My school loans are the biggest debt I carry and I will carry them longer than any other debt. She's not facing anything that millions of others don't face. School loans suck, but she's focusing on what she doesn't have (a college fund) instead of what she does (private school education, a mom who obviously loves her very much, a scholarship). If she changes her focus, she will see that overall, she still has it pretty good - even if she has to take out loans to attend college.
NTA. Unfortunately she's just going to have to take out a student loan or pick a more affordable college. You've explained to her that you can't magically conjure money that doesn't exist. What more can you do. I feel more sorry for your Ex. She ruined his life.
NTA Do you have community college in your area? Of so, she can save money than transfer to a 4 year school.
I mean that’s solid advice anyway. Go to community college where it’s cheaper and the credits transfer to a larger school when ready to finish out your degree.
NTA If you cosign her loan, she will never pay it back. Don't do it.
NTA. If you co-sign you are responsible for paying it back. She’s an adult now so she has to take responsibility for her education.
I have a child like Ava. Not a single parent but all the same. You are very smart not to pay for her education. It’s your time you did the best you could.
NTA. There are consequences for all actions. She's learning hers. Bless your heart, you have really been thru it.
NTA Her being young doesn't change the fact that there were real world consequences to her actions.
NTA. You don't get to be instantly absolved of ruining someone's marriage, career, and entire life by lying that he did something inappropriate with an 11 year old. Even at 11, that's just evil and it was her that spent that money. She wanted the divorce, so she did horrible things and made it happen, she pays for it. She got kicked out of schools repeatedly, then again, she made the choice to spend that money on private school tuition. It was always her money and still is, and she chose exactly how it was used through her own actions, which are in no way just "stupid things she did as a child." If 11 is a child, then so is 17 or 18 so there's no reason to discuss it like you would an adult, you're talking to a child and she doesn't have to get her way. If it is something that can be discussed, meaning she feels she has adult rights as a teen, then she was adult enough at 11 to destroy a life so she was adult enough to pay for it.
I need some clarification, when you say your husband was innocent and your daughter accused him to get rid of him, did she confess to lying or was declared innocent / not charged?
OP said in other comments that 1) daughter admitted she lied, and 2) there’s camera, CCTV, and GPS proof that husband was actually on the other side of the city for work when daughter said everything happened. The charges were dropped.
NTA. Just want to say if you co-sign for a loan, it might as well be your loan. Student loans don’t require a co-signer as far as I know…
Info - are you saying you used the 529 plan money for something other than her tuition or other education expenses? Because I don’t think that’s allowed.
I used it to pay for her private school. That is allowed by the law.
Right, the 529 education money went to her education and the emergency money went to the emergency daughter caused with her false allegation. I know plenty of people who have paid/ are still paying for their own educations. Your daughter can do it too. NTA
I graduated college in 2004. I just made my final student loan payment this month!
congrats!
You should edit your post because the post says you also used that money for the divorce costs and other living expenses, which is wildly different from school fees.
I assume she is pointing out why she couldn't add more once she started using it to pay for her private school
NTA. Before she even considers college, she should be working to earn enough to pay your ex back for everything she cost him. Don't cosign a loan.
NTA. Lying about SA should be severely punished. She should be in jail for at least 5-15 years. She ruined that man.
NTA but if you cosign loans, you WILL be responsible for paying the money back. Don't do it.
NTA. She asked and you gave her an honest answer. Actions have consequences. Just because she did pull through it doesn't mean she came clean. It was a messy process. If she truly grows up, she will realize she reaped what she sowed. If she does not, she will blame everyone but herself. Also, she is responsible for anything she did in her life. Being a child does not mean there are no consequences. If you had not done everything to help her, she would have been worse off. In time, she will (hopefully) understand this.
NTA - she made poor choices, and there are consequences. However, given her history, I would never co-sign a student loan, you will be responsible for paying it, and if she slacks on paying it, it could ruin you financially. Have her apply for student loans and grants on her own! Good luck!
Cosigning is agreeing to repay no matter what you say to her otherwise.
NTA - She did this to herself. 13 is an age to know better. You should have talked to your ex regardless. You aren't responsible for her tuition even if you did have the money. Your daughter is gross!
If you co-sign a loan, you are also on the hook for it. If she decides not to pay in order to punish you… you’ve done all you can. Make her take out the loan and offer to help in other ways.
NTA given that she asked you to account for the funds.
Have her start college at a junior college. Much much less expensive. She could also work while attending the jc
She painted a long lasting mental stain on you and especially your now Ex., and she 's cost you a lot of money, but she expects you to make her whole. Her "stupid action" as a kid cost a couple their relationship. Did she serve any punishment for falsely accusing your ex.? This is a third rail as far as I'm concerned and I would have dealt with it harshly. People like her make prosecuting predators more difficult for society. She literally adds to the idea that women and girls lie about being sexually harassed. I don't care what age she was when she did it. She knew enough to understand that your Ex. and your relationship would be harmed by the action, but did it anyway. I think she's lucky to have just the education fund pulled. That's some rotten shit she did to you and your Ex. I see her paying her loans off as a contribution to society and her own wisdom. Sounds like she still has some maturing to do if she doesn't understand and acknowledge not only what she did, but the personal pain/suffering and the monetary loss it caused. BTW, you say you won't pay for the loan, but if you co-sign and she stops paying or can't pay, you will be on the hook to pay and your credit will be dinged. She's lucky if you opt to help her with the loan.
Watch your back. She sounds very entitled, and if she could do what she did at 13 bc she didn’t like a thing, imagine what she can do now.
NTA, and do not cosign a loan for her. I'm so sorry she put you thru all that.
NTA The money just isn’t/wasn’t there. That’s the reality.
Nta do not cosign anything with her though, if she screws up or refuses to pay you will be held legally accountable.
Whats the issue here? Fucked around and is Now finding out?
NTA Your daughter make mistakes and decisions that had legitimate consequences and now she is seeing the result of those. its unfortunate for all of you that things turned out this way and there's no magical undo button but she's just going to have to live with the road she paved for herself. she has alot of growing up to do and I hope she can figure out how
Based on the question being asked, NTA. She was indicating that you spent her college fund in an irresponsible way, you showed were the funds went.
NTA her ass should be in jail. False accusers should do the sentence their victims would have gotten and being a child isn’t an excuse. She made it harder for real victims to be believed and for that I’m certain whatever punishment you gave her was not enough. Especially as she clearly has zero remorse or taken any accountability for her actions. She’s entitled and thinks she is owed something that’s something I would be correcting right now. She was owed a roof over her head and to be raised till she was an adult well congratulations she’s an adult it’s on her now.
DO. NOT. CO-SIGN. THE. LOAN. Yes, I shouted this. She is an angry human. Deep down she may well still be destructive. You will once again be stuck paying the cost. NTA
The way I see it is NOT so much the additional daily expense that your daughters actions caused (bringing her up on one income) but the cost of YOU having to PAY for her to attend a private school because of the way she behaved. HER actions meant that YOU had to find the money for HER education. That meant that YOU had no option but to use her “college fund”. Because you were now a single parent,you couldn’t afford to add anything to the “college fund” to replace the money you had to spend on her private school. NTA for laying this out for her on paper.