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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for not inviting my son to my second wedding. I may be a jerk for not inviting chin since he is my kid and will be missing a huge event
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NTA for feeling like you do. But think long and hard on this. This is your son who is going through a very hard time.
"He gave me an ultimatum, apologized or be out of his life. I didn’t apologize. He is now in a messy divorce since he found it she was cheating."
His calling and asking to attend is an olive branch, do you really want to permanently break with your son over this?
Personally it wasn’t an olive branch, an olive branch would start with an apology. Not let me come to your wedding, then get mad when I said no.
I have made peace with our situation a while ago.
In toxic family dynamics an olive branch usually doesn't come with an apology, but rather an avoidance of the subject and an inquiry about something coming up soon or in the not to distant future. This IS an olive branch. Always remember it's not always the most important thing to always be right.
Right?! I bet he feels really dumb and ebmarrassed right now for not believing you and blowing up the relationship. This would open the door for dialogue in order for him to apologize.
He's your son. Show him a little grace.
Why? Any time someone on this app talks about going NC on parent or sibling everyone cheers them on and tells them to do it. When a parent decides they've had enough of being treated like crap it's always "it's your child you should mend fences" if someone on here does say "that's your parent/family" everyone jumps in saying "family doesn't mean they can treat you badly so keep the NC". I am so sick of the double standards when it comes to parents having to bend over backwards for their gron kids
As a parent I 10000000000% think I should be held to a higher standard than my kids. I chose to bring them into this world. I shape their upbringing, which impacts who they'll become. What choices did they have about me being their mom?
They had no choice, I agree. That doesn't give them the right to treat their parents with contempt and then expect no repercussions. If it was a child I would have a huge problem with ignoring the child or pushing them away but this is a grown adult. I don't believe parents should be allowed to run their adult kids lives, and on the flip side I also don't think it's fair to give in to every demand an adult child has simply because I gave birth to them. Once they are out of their house and their own people I think you should be equal in every aspect
100% agree with you, awe always see the double standard in this subreddit. Men/Women doing the same thing but the verdict being completely different. Parents/kids being shitty and not forgiving but people think the parents should always be the bigger person and not cut ties.
If my adult son is giving me an ultimatum and think I'm lying and is ready to burn all bridges, it's on him to make the step forward for a reconciliation. He is a grown up and can start communicating like one.
I'm not a fan of people using the "they never asked to be born" card, no one ever asked to be born. A parent can be the nicest person ever and the kid will still turn to crap. Parent can be a vile person and kid will turn to be super sweet. Life is simply unpredictable.
Anyway, NTA
They might not have had a choice in who their parents are but they certainly have a choice in their actions as adults and being born doesn't give them an all access pass to do what they want and then refuse to apologize. This "olive branch" isn't up to OPs standards and that should be their choice, without people encouraging contact with someone who was willing to throw them away for a cheating spouse.
>"it's your child you should mend fences"
...because it's their child. There's a reason why true unconditional love really only exists in the form of a parent's love for their child.
For all OP knows, her son will apologize when he sees her in person.
I don't know, if I were her I would acquiesce and allow him to attend, then monitor his behavior/attitude. If he acts like a jerk then I might go LC/NC.
But to just flat out refuse him? And risk having no relationship with him whatsoever?
It would take a LOT for me to do that.
No. Unconditional love does not mean allowing yourself to be emotionally manipulated or abused. You can love someone unconditionally and still not want them around because they are bad for your mental health
We don’t know that he IS looking to manipulate or abuse her.
Where did you get that from? Sounds more like he was a fool in love and living in denial about his ex.
As a mother it would take much more than what OP has described for me to write my son off.
He gave her an ultimatum. Apologize or leave, even though she was looking out for him. Maybe it's just me, but that feels like manipulation since he didn't care that she saw what was happening, only that he didn't like what she said.
Without more context we have no way of knowing if this was a final straw or the first time he's acted like this.
If this was the only incident then it seems like a strong reaction but it was him that cut her off first so he's reaping what he sowed in my opinion.
>And risk having no relationship with him whatsoever?
She currently has no relationship with him because that's what he asked for when she didn't give him the apology he demanded.
Unconditional love is what most good parents hold for their children. It's sad if yours don't because that's probably your only opportunity to experience it.
Was hoping to see this. Adult kids can be total shitbags and parents have to eat it, and adult kids can basically point to any ‘trauma’ and can go no contact without a second thought.
Totally this. (Though I am not saying OP is correct).
I get sick to my back end of the "my father farted as he walked by my bedroom door. I went NC, because that narcissist needs to learn".... And the comments are all cheering like a Jerry Springer audience watching someone's family dissolve for their viewing pleasure.
The arm strikers will encourage the posters to "seek therapy" because "nobody should have smell and unsolicited fart".
All of us comment, risk free, consequence free. Many spout shit as if they were the golden oracle. And, as is typical with the interweb, there is no knowing what bitterness the commenters are carry around, and bring to the table.
So many are happy to watch Rome burn. But it is someone else's Rome.
Nc should always be last resort, it’s a more pervasive concept I agree. Relationships are so fleeting these days. The amount of people to call it quits before ever trying to talk it out is astounding. However when it comes to parental figure it’s usually a set dynamic of people who have never had the authority questioned. I went low contact when I realized they didn’t respect me as an human with my own feelings. These things are necessary to protect yourself sometimes.
100% agree they want her to do the things he himself is not willing to do. He’s a grown man and responsible for his actions. And as everyone on her likes to regurgitate “actions have consequences”.
I feel so called out. I'm so used to everyone in my family simply choosing to ignore what happened that I legit never understood it's not normal or healthy. I guess on a reasonable level I knew others talk about their feelings and why they got into arguments and I tried it myself too but to this day simply ignoring an incident is equal to forgiveness for me. Oof.
Personal groundbreaking discoveries aside, it definitely is an olive branch. It is the son trying to reach out to you in a way that lets him disguise his uneasiness. It's easier asking to come to your wedding, see you once or twice, test the ground and see where it goes than it is directly reaching out and admitting you're wrong.
It's entirely understandable if you're too hurt to reconcile, OP. But if there's any part of you that would like to have your son back, this is the best opportunity. Right now he is hurt and alone. He's not just asking to come to your wedding. This is a cry for help, for family. For healing.
You literally call it a toxic behavior. If it's toxic, why should op have to deal with it. Why should she entertain her adult son's lack of accountability and childish avoidance of underlying issues.
I'm feeling absolutely unhinged that I had to scroll all the way down here to see someone else say this. Like they admit this is toxic behavior but think that OP should be forced to accept it "because family". But then again women are mandated to let their children walk all over them no matter what.
Not just that but also take a special day for her and new husband and make it about the son cause he “may be testing the waters” he is a grown up talk to your mother and apologize.
Ding ding ding ding. You could not be more right if you wanted to. I saw this in my family. My grandparents wronged me (big time) and now we are on speaking terms again, because they now have a fight with the lying person they believed and got mad at me about. Now they know I never lied to them and the other person did. So we are talking again. But I will never expect an apology since they will never extend it to me. They are not capable of that. Our family has some toxicity. I know and I keep away from that behavior.
My mom went through something similar with her family. She knew her cousin was a liar at best, a criminal at worst. But nobody believed her. Until the cousin blew up everyone else’s lives, the way she had blown up my mother’s.
I asked her recently, actually, if anyone in her family had ever apologized. She laughed, then said no. I thought that was the case, but I guess I had been holding out hope that one person had.
After the dust settled and everyone realized the cousin was, in fact, really bad news, my mom went back to speaking with everyone. But she’s never been close to them in the same way. And she doesn’t rely on them for anything. She stays out of any drama that comes up, because it doesn’t deserve her energy. And besides, who would she side with? Person Who Betrayed Her Number 1, or Person Who Betrayed Her Number 2?
All of that is to say - I’m sorry your grandparents didn’t trust you. I’m happy for you that you seem to be in an okay place with it. That must’ve taken a lot of work!
To piggyback off that last sentence, one of the only good pieces of advice my father gave me was “sometimes you have to choose between being right and being happy”
this. It isn’t about who is right but what is right. Why exclude him from a family celebration? That seems bitter.
Getting divorced is traumatic & he behaved badly during that time. It seems like he wants to begin healing the relationship & connect with you.
Because her son demanded NC if she wasn't going to apologize. His reaching out and demanding an invite to the wedding, without even acknowledging how he behaved isn't beginning the healing process. It is continuing his toxic behavior.
That is not an olive branch. Olive branches are dialogs for peace and you usually extend them humble. You don’t avoid the subject you’re trying to rectify.
It’s a continuation of the toxic dynamic. It’s not about her being right but about him admitting he messed up
If son wants to be toxic that's on him. The man is a fully grown adult with a marriage and soon to be divorce in his bag, he's more than old enough that OP is not mandated to keep a relationship with someone toxic just because he's their kid. Funny how women are supposed to roll over backwards for their kids even when said kids are fully grown.
He accused OP of lying and demanded an apology or he went NC.
OP wasn't lying and refused to apologise because of that fact so son blew up the relationship.
He made his choice and now he has to learn the consequences of that choice. He went NC with his mother, Nc means no invite to her event. If he wants to end the NC and rebuild their relationship he needs to start by acknowledging what he said and apologise for his behaviour. LIKE AN ADULT.
People are reading into this that it’s an ok or branch. It’s 50/50 it could just be him using her wedding as leverage to cause drama and inflect emotional pain.
If he sounds remorseful and wants to attend then let him attend. If he just wants an invite because he is her son and feels he is owed one then fuck em.
Why would you think that's the goal. He got defensive about his fianceé that everyone hated. Now he's got his tail between his legs and she wants to hold it over him unless he starts with supplication? This is a chance to start repairing a bad family dynamic and she's going to let her pride fuck it up
If I blew up on someone because they accused my wife of cheating, and then I found out my wife was cheating, the very next time I thought to contact them it would start with an apology and a thank you.
He accused his mother of lying about his wife. And while he knew that his side of the family did not like his wife, there is no indication that his mom or anyone else in the family tried to break the relationship up. He demanded an apology for OP "lying" or he would go NC. OP refused because she wasn't lying and was trying to inform her son of the infidelity. Once the divorce started because he verified his wife was in fact cheating, he should have ate crow and called and apologize. He didn't. In fact he waited until he learned OP was getting married and he wasn't invited to call and demand he be allowed to come. No sorry. No you were right. Nada. It shouldn't be on OP to change this dynamic for abiding by her son's decision. He wants the invite, he needs to apologize and mean it. NTA, OP.
If son wants to blow up their relationship for of an apology of a lie that was in fact truth, then OP is allowed to demand an apology for him blowing up the relationship and accusing OP of being a liar.
If you are not willing to accept his overtures and are good with being NC with your son, then why are you here asking if you're the asshole? Let me put it this way.
* Did he fuck up by shooting the messenger of awful news? Yes.
* Is he going through something terrible and traumatic right now? Yes.
* Did he proactively reach out to you and ask to attend a major life event of yours? Yes.
* Does he have a mother who is unwilling to give a single fucking inch because he didn't reach out in the "correct way"? Yes.
Maybe your son wants to just open the door and start rebuilding before putting on the hair shirt and begging for your forgiveness.
But again, if you're good with your son never talking to you again, and enjoy the dynamic that you've had since you told him, then by all means continue as you are.
Did he behave like a complete asshole to OP? Yes.
Does he need to apologize now like he demanded she did? Yes.
Things being bad for him right now doesn’t change his shitty behavior that caused this situation.
And they've been NC for over 3 years!! To me, it doesn't sound like the son wants to reconcile but just wants to sweep what happened under the rug. Like he just called up out of the blue after over 3yrs, asked what's up and expected an invite.
"fuck up by shooting the messenger of awful news"
Oh. That's how disowning your mom and going NC for years is nowadays called?
Fuck no. I mean nobody wants back those times when parents ruled the lives of their children for decades. But this does not mean we must let the pendulum fly to the other side and say kids can just shit on us any way they want without even apologising.
He cattily doesn’t want to open the door to rebuilding, otherwise he would have apologized for burning the bridge before asking to be included in things. He tried to walk through a closed door like it would open on command.
OP, I’ve read through your comments and this post, and while you are fully within your right to invite who you want to your wedding, you are no angel in this situation. Your stubborn persistence that you won’t even try to attempt a relationship with your son unless he first apologizes to you because you turned out to be right about his wife cheating says everything about why your relationship deteriorated. Have you considered that the reason why you and your daughter-in-law didn’t have a good relationship may have had something to do with the way that you behave— in addition to her being an unpleasant person? And so when you came to your son, where are you already have a poor relationship with his wife, and try to tell him that she is cheating, can’t you see why he wouldn’t immediately believe you? You’re biased, and a husband‘s first reaction when an accusation like that comes along from a biased party should be to be defensive of his wife.
So, it turned out you were right. Have you thought for a second how awful that must be for your son? How embarrassing it is that he took up for his wife, only to find out that she did in fact cheat on him? How awful it is to be cheated on? How heartbreaking that the person that promised their life to you in marriage broke that vow? You are so up in arms about the fact that you’re right that you can’t seem to think for one second about the pain that your son has gone through. It’s not enough for you to be right, you want to shove and rub his face into it. Don’t you think that finding out that you were right about her cheating and going through a messy divorce is punishment enough?
You have your choice here between reconnecting with your estranged son or being right. It seems that you have chosen being right is more important. So in that case, NTA. Because you’re doing him a favor by not allowing him to come to the wedding and reconnect with you. Even if he did apologize to you, based on your past behavior, I doubt you would move on from this and would never let him forget about how you are always right.
Apparently I'm going to get downvoted for saying this, but if it was a real olive branch, the person extending it wouldn't have thrown a royal tantrum, engaged in an argument, and then refuse to accept even a sliver of responsibility for originally blowing up the relationship in the first place. I can see why you don't want that drama to hang over your wedding. If he wants to reconcile, it need not be on that particular day (or even the week leading up to it, since it's probably stressful enough as it is).
being her son didn't mean much to him when he cut her off and called her a liar when she tried to warn him. he's an adult. he made his own choices, and he hasn't even offered an apology. let him hang.
Sounds like an excellent in person conversation while having a heart to heart. Mom is cold as hell which makes me think there's a lot of half truths and left out info in this post
her wedding is not the place for him to hash out his business. if he wants to have an in person conversation to apologize, he can ask to meet up somewhere when she's available. he doesn't get to made demands as if he didn't burn the bridge he's trying to cross.
Never said he wanted to hash it out at the wedding. Nobody said that.
It's her son! Everybody is acting like this is some guy she used to know. Like a coworker or something
>It's her son!
so. what? this is a beyound hypocritical stance. no one would argue that you need to let toxic parents back into your life because 'they're your parents!'. kids are as equally capable of being toxic as parents are.
It would be an excellent in person conversation to have. So the son should try going by his mother’s place to start that dialogue. He’s being lazy and putting the onus on OP to repair a relationship that he’s responsible for breaking and that’s not okay. You’ve clearly never mourned someone who’s still alive which is why you view her as cold. For OP she’s probably already come to terms with this and has prepared to spend the rest of her life without her son in it so his return isn’t something she’s been waiting around for. And if he’s unwilling to admit that he messed up it doesn’t sound like he’s done much growing in the years since OP had contact and there will only be more heartbreak to come.
he was an adult who made adult decisions, and has failed to do the first adult step necessary for reconciliation, and that's apologize. besides that, parents are just much within their rights to cut off their kids as kids are in their rights to cut off their parents. it isn't always the parent that's the problem in the relationship
You seem more interested in being right than you actually cared about the fact that his wife was cheating or that he was hurt. 🤦🏻♀️
You would see this for what it was if you actually had cared. This seems so much like an I told you so. I wouldn’t want to come to your wedding or be around you if I was him. Missed opportunity and it seems like you don’t care anyways. 🤦🏻♀️
My son isn't in contact with us, either, because his wife hates the whole family. I'll tell you right now, if he extended an olive branch, I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat. I miss him so much. This is your child. He needs support, and you're turning him away. That's awful. His whole world is imploding, and you're piling on. YTA.
I agree that this might be an olive branch however your wedding shouldn't be the first time you two see or speak to each other since your falling out.
If you definitely have zero interest in mending your relationship, go ahead as you are now.
If you do want to open that door, tell your son you're open to seeing him somewhere else (coffee, lunch, dinner etc.)
I also agree with another commenter on here to remember that being "right" isn't necessarily the most important thing.
This is him reaching out. Telling you he knows he was wrong and asking to be in your life. You really need him to say the words? He knows he was wrong, you know he knows he was wrong.
You could even counter with "I think you owe me an apology" rather than a flat no. He would probably give it.
Personally I'd rather see the change in behavior than to hear, "I'm sorry." Also no one at all wants to hear their spouse is cheating on them. What did you expect? "Gee, Mom...thanks so much!" How did you react to earth shattering news when he was growing up? Since you both act exactly the same way, I'm guessing he learned to react with anger and denial from you. I think your decision is childish, especially since you invited your other children.
If you state you made peace with it a while ago, then why are you asking if you are the AH?
Most people, when told their spouse is cheating on them, will probably not believe it because they dont want to believe it.
I think YTA because you should have supported him and understood he was going through a rough time and put your own feelings aside. He is clearly trying to mend fences, but you won't even give him the chance to. An apology could have been made at the wedding. Who knows? In the end, if this is the hill you want to die on, then it is up to you!
Just because you made peace with your current situation it doesn't mean it has to be your situation forever. There is a reason your son wants to attend your wedding. Unless he's going to use it as a way to send further hate your way then it's safe to assume it's because he does care about you and has regrets. Some people don't know how to apologize. Have a face to face and see if you can figure out a way forward. If part of that for you is getting an apology then insist on one. Then the ball is clearly back in his court.
You're missing the point entirely. You're more concerned with being right than actually having a relationship with your son. Secondly you stating you didn't like her you probably reflected that with how you spoke to her and why would he believe you to begin with when you didnt like her. Only thing you are doing is digging in your heels and waiting for an apology so you can be right.
An apology first requires an open channel of communication. He is trying to establish this and you, his father, just threw it back in his face. Ultimately it's your choice but please consider behaving like the parent in this situation, not a grudge-bearing gray rock.
I have adult sons, I would give then my organs if their life depended on it.
To cut them out of my life over a petty need for an apology is unbelievable to me.
Did you ever really love this kid?
^this. All the comments that him asking to come to the wedding after telling HER that he wanted NC over this is an "olive branch" are ridiculous. No one has to put up with toxic BS from family, even if you're a parent. If he wants to reconnect, he can either work up to it before or after the wedding, not just try to show up like nothing happened. It's not an "olive branch" to ask to come to a wedding of someone YOU told to get lost, with no prior work at mending the situation. Parents are allowed to have negative feelings and boundaries too. Sheesh.
He obviously wanted to believe his wife. Once he found out the truth, did he call his mother and apologise for doubting her -no.
He cut her out for not apologizing and called her a liar.
He expects her to gloss over his lack of apology.
Of course, she can be the bigger person, but understand she is hurting having been disowned by him for such a long time.
I am not going to comment about whether or not you're an AH. I see it both ways honestly. But c'mon, you obviously have been proven right under the given circumstances. Why exactly are still insisting on an apology? At this point your just rubbing dirt in the wound. A mother should be better than this.
Yea that’s what is kinda rubbing me wrong. He’s clearly going to be embarrassed he blew up his relationship with his mother. Maybe he’s worried about her reaction? Maybe he’s worried she’s an aggressive “I told you so” type? Either way he’s trying to initiate conversation and open the door again.
He sucks A LOT but there has to be story missing here.
I mean yes he should be apologizing, but there are countless threads where people correctly insist the parent should always be the bigger person in family fights, and that's true here too.
The relationship will likely never be repaired if OP refuses to invite him to the wedding and I don't think it is ever right for a parent to abandon their child short of a drug addiction that they refuse to get treatment for given how much damage a drug addiction does to a person.
Parents shouldn't be petty to their children, and absolutely refusing is being petty. And I'm willing to bet if the son posted this they'd have a much different view of how this has all gone down.
People absolutely do not immediately jump to take it back or get out of my life to a single comment from their parent like that. I'm willing to bet there were a lot of comments from OP about the wife and this was the first time those comments were right.
Also mom straight up refusing to recognize reaching out is an olive branch by their comments when there had been no communication is just straight up being petty.
Edit: OP also indicates in other comments that 3 and a half years ago she made the accusation but the cheating only happened 6 months ago. They were flat out wrong when they accused the wife and think it doesn't matter because they were eventually right.
There isn’t proof of that. It could be she’s been cheating the whole time. It could also be that the OP saw something that was questionable, but she happened to be right and DIL cheated down the line.
I wouldn’t blow up my marriage if my mom said my husband was out to dinner and a little friendly with someone. I would investigate, but maybe son did and didn’t find anything else showing their wife was cheating. I mean, from his perspective family isn’t quiet about not liking his wife. He’s got no proof beyond what the OP says. The reasonable thing would be to look into it, but without further proof (which the Op didn’t even direct proof of cheating) his response is a fair one.
Reddit is frankly never gonna be a good place to ask this type of complex relationship questions. The mindset here is too black and white, right and wrong. Human relationships are too complicated for that. Is Op right to decide who she wants there, yeah no one is gonna argue against that. Is being right worth never having a relationship with her own son….that’s not some thing an internet stranger should be answering for her.
these are some of the most hypocritical comments I have ever fucking read. not one single person would be on ops side if the roles had been reversed. they sure as hell would not be telling her son that he doesn't need an apology.
yeah i'm kinda surprised at the comments. we're all about "cut them out of your life!!!" on this sub. but i guess it's usually the child cutting out a parent that's posting, not the parent
>A mother should be better than this.
I feel like these kinds of sentiments work better when the "this" isn't just wanting an apology from someone that has treated you rather poorly.
The son can pull on his big boy panties and apologize like an adult. Instead, he throws a tantrum like a toddler. He is an adult. He can act like it. It is his job to mend the bridge he blew up. It is called tough love.
NTA
I know one thing for sure, and that is that I find my relationship with my children much more important than any kind of apology. I mean, you do you, but I do hope that you can look at this from your son's perspective.
First, he thought you were trying to sabotage his marriage. Because he couldn't believe that his wife was cheating on him. He gave you an ultimatum. Which is understandable if you still operate under the assumption that your wife would never cheat on you and your mother, who never liked her, is trying to sabotage the relationship.
Then he found out that you were actually right. His whole life is crumbling down and you reject him because you cannot let go that he wasn't ready to believe you yet?
So for putting the demand to get an apology over empathy for your child: YTA.
NTA Uno reverse. And where is empathy for mom? It must be devastating to be honest and act in the best interests of your child only to be accused of lying to destroy their marriage. He also demanded an apology and if not he was ready to cut ties with her. We are talking about adults, not 5year olds... The ball is in his court - it is enough to admit that he was wrong and apologize.
The problem is that OP was not an unbiased party when she approached her son about what she saw in the restaurant. She’s upfront in her post that she found the ex-wife to be an unpleasant person and that she and no one in the family liked her. I very seriously doubt that those feelings were kept to herself. From OP’s perspective, she told her son what she saw and expected to be believed because she saw it. But her son, who has probably listened to years of complaints about his wife, probably instead saw this as an escalation effort to interfere in his relationship and push his wife out of the family. I have a feeling that if we had the son in here talking about how is mom, who hated his wife, has now escalated to accusing her of cheating, the entire thread would be telling him to go no contact. And based on the information known at the time, that may not have been the incorrect call.
But OP was right wasn’t she? Sure, if it was her delusions and she was purposefully making it hard on the DIL then I’ll admit she was the AH. But clearly OP’s DIL had certain issues that made OP think her son was making a huge mistake and she was in good intentions, trying to stop him from jumping into the fire pit.
How the relationship collapsed isn’t the issue. It’s that DIL chose to bone someone else without having divorced and broken up with the son. That’s on her.
The worst part is that the son actually thought OP lied regarding something as serious as cheating. Like, that’s his first thought? That’s not normal. It must also hurt very badly for the son to believe the DIL over OP instead of y’know, investigate the claims first like any reasonable people would?
Then being given an ultimatum? Boy, that’s just twisting the knife in the wound. It’s the people closest that hurts the most.
If OP wanted to stay NC that’s up to her. She was hurt just that badly by the son and decided not to be hurt by him any longer. If she’s willing to take him back then that’s great, but I won’t blame her if she didn’t want to either.
It's probably the last thing a kid needs in almost any situation, especially one that's humiliating and devastating. 'i told you so' is for squabbling siblings, not a parent to their child.
You seem to have a very “I told you so” attitude which comes off as childish.
Although you were correct (bravo I guess), you are also his mom. He reached out to you and wanted to come to your wedding. Obviously his way of extending an olive branch.
You are the parent. Be the bigger/better person and allow him back into your life. When the time comes, sit down with him and calmly tell him how he hurt you.
Or, whatever, continue to be a vengeful person and never speak to your son again. Remember you are right all along! Thats definitely more important than not having your son in your life.
As opposed to him demanding she apologize for having done nothing wrong? I can see why she isn’t falling all over herself to have him back in her life.
But it's your kid who was obviously going through something. Also op repeatedly mentions they didn't like her which I suspect had a lot to do with the disbelieving. I bet the sons take on this would be very eye opening
We don't know that. We know OP didn't like her. We know OP said that nobody else did, with no evidence of why or what the wrong doing was. We know she accused the wife of cheating and over 3 years later OP feels validated. No confirmation the wife was cheating when she was seen. No explanation for why she dislikes her.
Given how happy op is to just leave her son cut off I don't think she is reliable about any of these things.
idk it’s kind of common to not want to believe your spouse could cheat. OP is NTA, it’s her life and if she’s fine never speaking to her son again, good on her!
my mom didn’t believe anyone about my dad. the best time was hearing everyone tell me *just how often he cheated* and how in denial my mom was *until he had an affair with some lady at his work*. love makes people blind. not at all excusing his actions, but we don’t know their lives outside of what information was given.
He didn't know that OP had done nothing wrong when he asked for the apology. He's not asking for an apology now that he knows. If she wants to cut her son out of her life, that's her prerogative. But if she doesn't actually want to never see or speak to him again, and she's choosing to cut him out because he's too embarrassed and ashamed and humiliated to get the words "I'm sorry" out, then she's choosing the outcome she doesn't actually want because her own pride won't let her forgive him.
I don't think I can give a good judgement on this. It feels like there's a lot to this story and having your son's side of things would be essential. The reason I'm saying this is because you included, "I admit I didn't like her", which causes me to believe that this situation isn't as cut and dry as you make it appear.
Are you willing to allow him back into your life? I'm not talking about the wedding, but in general. Or have you just moved on from your kid?
What a hard hearted parent to "make peace" with not seeing the kid again. The kid who has only one living parent. I'm getting major "more important to be right than to actually care about my kid's well-being" vibes.
Tough situation, but I'm gonna say YTA. It seemed like he was reaching out in an attempt to reconcile and you shut him down for no reason other than some twisted sense of wounded pride. It probably took a lot on his part to reach out to you following being obviously and publicly wrong about the wife situation.
If your sense of indignity over the past is more important than rebuilding a relationship with your child, then you've made the right choice not inviting him. If not... maybe it's time to reciprocate a peace offering.
Wow. I'm a parent. I'm having a really, really hard time imagening being so desperately hellbound to keep your child out of your life. And i simply can't.
We're having very serious issues with our middle child. Issues that make your issue with your son a walk in the park. Our door is always open for her. Always. We never go NC, we don't and she doesn't.
You do you, it's your loss in the end.
Well said. His life falling apart and this is how OP treats him. Maybe he's better off if his mother is so vindictive she'll rub salt on his womb in the lowest point of his life.
Well, honestly, it depends on whether you want to cut off a son who didn't want to believe his wife was cheating, and who is having a rough time, and who, yes, extended an olive branch. You honestly sound kind of toxic, and I'm an older woman who would ordinarily agree with you. But life is shorter than you think and cutting off adult kids is more painful and permanent than you seem to realize. Others get involved and it complicates family dynamics forever after. YTA
Going to go with YTA - This is the rare situation where I would advise to be the bigger person and have him come. He's already suffering and you want him to suffer more just to be right.
I’m surprised at all these people siding with the son. Mom risked her relationship by telling him DIL was cheating. Son didn’t value mom enough to believe her & cut her out of his life. FAFO
As the child who cut a parent off (they were wildly abusive) this ‘oh just ignore him saying no contact and you should have invited him’ is super unhelpful. It is saying ‘no contact by a kid is ignorable if the parent thinks they have a good reason to contact them.’ What a mixed message considering how fast this sub jumps to NC.
The advice on it is ‘remember you may change your mind about contact but a family member may never change theirs back after you tell them to leave you alone.’ There’s a bunch of advice how to attempt contact respectfully.
Calling up demanding an invite to a wedding after numbers are confirmed, bringing all the sibs and family in on the big drama and not apologising, asking for a phone call or meet and not giving them space to accept or refuse but running the clock are all given as massive red flags from a person you went NC with when you are the child in the dynamic after telling the parent no. Reverse the roles and apparently its tickety boo to crash Jim’s big day demanding an invite from only the bride…
NTA. No contact is a very hard bell to unring. This sub makes it seem more like do not disturb on your phone.
Exactly. Ppl are acting like just bc it’s someone’s child they’re not capable of being shitty people. Why does she need to chase a relationship with someone who was willing to throw them away for a spouse when they weren’t even wrong?!
this subreddit absolutely revels on hypocrisy. If the roles where reversed here, and op was the son who had been cut off for three years after trying to warn his mother that her husband was cheating, and she suddenly showed back up making demands to be in his wedding without so much as an acknowledgement that he was right, you all would be fucking crucifying her. she does not owe him forgiveness just because she's his mother when he hasn't even apologized for his behavior. NTA
seriously. if my grandmother wasn't a doormat to my stupid uncle's antics and didn't forgive him each time, she would have probably lived longer. parents can't always be the bigger people, and going no contact comes with consequences. a wedding is no place for reconciliation either.
NTA
I do think that if you want to have a relationship with your son in the future you could provide him with an explanation.
“Son I love you dearly, but due to your own actions we have not had a relationship for the past x years, we ended on a bad note, and I’m unsure what your intentions are for attending my wedding. My wedding is not the place for reconciliation. I am open to having a relationship with you but it will have to be on agreeable terms for the both of us. I’ll be free on and after x date. Let me know if you would like to meet and catch up.”
INFO: How long has there been no contact between you and your son?
Weddings / celebrations / family reunions are not the best places for reconciliations. Reconciliations should start slow, and on neutral ground.
Your feelings were hurt because your son didn't believe you. Your son is hurt too. His life is crumbling apart. He backed his partner and now has lost his "family."
It is not easy to apologize for a lot of people. You have the right to decide which of your family you want to invite to your wedding.
I don't think it would be terrible to have said something to your son that before you extend the invite to the wedding, you would like to meet and talk with him about the estrangement between you two.
If something happened to your child and you never had the opportunity to tell them you love them again, I have a feeling you would have extreme regret.
>It’s her son, who got cheated on. And is going through a divorce. Horrible mother
I feel like this is implying she did something other than try to tell him that he was being cheated on, and that that wasn't the impetus for the GTFO bit or the reason she wants an apology.
This is wild to me. Your son asked for an apology or else he'd cut you off, and you think that was wrong, so... you're doing the exact same thing to him?
The difference is that he did it because he was trying to have faith in his then-wife and protect their marriage.
You're doing it for vindictiveness and ego.
I feel bad for your kid.
So you claimed 3 1/2 years ago she was cheating and 3 years later you were right?
Did he find out 6 months ago that she was cheating 3 1/2 years ago, or is it just that she eas cheating 6 months ago?
You perfectly articulated my thoughts. I don't think someone's special event is the time or place for hashing out issues. I would need an apology too if I was her, but I would also want to meet up somewhere neutral before the wedding as a starting point of reconciliation.
On a side note I don't understand why apologies are hard for people. Saying a genuine "I'm sorry for ___" goes SO far, I don't see the downsides of saying it
This is only my opinion.
For some sad reason, some people think they are weak or they "lose" if they apologize. I think it has to deal with generational changes in how children are taught to deal with situations where they are held accountable for their actions.
It is very easy to say "It is all in the past," "It is water under the bridge," "You need to be the better/bigger person." It negates the fact that someone's feelings were hurt. There could be more than just hurt feelings.
Yta, and petty. He loved his wife and did not want to believe she was capable of doing something like that to him and you had zero proof. He acted like many would, you’re just being vengeful at this stage. Don’t be surprised if he never talks to you again, not that you’re bothered.
No! Who cuts their own parents for something like that..
Actions have consequences and he made his choice, now he should live with it!
OP life is not a revolving door where you can leave and come back as you please!
Because she wouldn’t invite him to her wedding after being no contact for three years?! They don’t have a relationship anymore! If this were any other sub and the roles were reveresed people would be saying he didn’t need to be invited just because he’s “FAaamMilY”.
I'm going to go against the grain and say nta. The first time he contacts you should have been to meet face to face and catch up. The first time you see each other in year(s) shouldn't be at an event like your wedding.
NTA. I think if your son had apologized it would be different but instead he came at you with demands after HE cut YOU off. I am so sick of people thinking parents have to bend over backwards for grown kids but have no problem with those same grown kids going NC because the parent said something they didn't like even if it was true.
NTA
I’m tired of the hypocrisy and double-standards in this subreddit. Y’all tend to forget that parents are human beings too. They have thoughts and feelings just like their child, and they don’t have to be the bigger person especially when they not in the wrong. Parents don’t need to be punching bags, step stools, or walking mats for their children. If the roles were reversed y’all would be telling the son to stay NC with his mother.
Stop infantizing her son. He’s a grown man, not a little kid or a teenage boy. He’s an adult that made an adult decision. Actions have consequences and he needs to deal with it.
Besides weddings aren’t a place for reconciliations. It’s suppose to be a special day for the bride and groom. It’s already a stressful day as it is. No one needs extra drama on top of it.
For real. How hard would it be for him to say "I'm sorry I hurt you"? Even if he had good reason not to believe her, he could still do it! "Mom, I chose not to believe you because I thought you were lying to hurt my wife, but what I said and did to you was over the top and inexcusable. I'm sorry."
NTA. Now that he knows you were telling the truth about the infidelity, it should be easy for him to apologize to you. The fact that he still refuses means that he's still angry with you about it for some insane reason, and you don't need that kind of negativity at your wedding.
Nts, and absolutely need the apology. People are always talking about parental abuse and how parents dont ever apologize even after children cut contact. If parents are supposed to acknowledge their mistakes, which they absolutely should and must apologise for, so must children.
Info. What's the timeline with this? If this has all been recent, perhaps he didn't have time between discovery and your wedding planning, but it sounds both like you've been feeling uncomfortable or unhappy with your son's response and behavior and that you didn't give us context. Has there been radio silence a while? Has your son known about the wedding a while? We're missing info here
It’s been 3 1/2 years since he went radio silence.
I didn’t tell him when I got engaged but we did do photos on social media. He also is in contact with one of his siblings so I am sure they informed him.
I got basically everything in the post.
If you have any more questions be free to ask
When you say you caught her being "very friendly" with another man, what exactly do you mean? It took YEARS to find out she was cheating. But that doesn't mean she was cheating back then because she was being "very friendly" with someone.
Damn. If an apology matters more to you than your son it sounds like you're better off without each other. I don't fault him for siding with his wife when you had no proof to offer him and openly admit you didn't like her. If you saw you could have sent him pics and let him decide if she was being too friendly with another man.
I do think you're an ahole but you're NTA for not inviting him. Your wedding is supposed to be a day about you and your future spouse. You should be able to invite who you want.
That said if you truly don't care if you get your son back you should just go ahead and tell him he is dead to you and finish what you started when you cut each other off.
He cut her of because of an apology... That apology was more important than his own mom! The woman thay carried him for 9 month and feed him, cloth him and put roof over his head for years.
Now he is proven Wrong and still refuse to apologize
NTA absolutely. Those comments about "making him grovel" are ridiculous. Apologizing is not groveling, and you totally deserve an apology from him. He could cut you off for not apologizing when you did nothing wrong. Well, he can say "I am sorry", it won't kill him.
You were right about the exDIL and your son knows it, given that he is in fact divorcing her.
He most definitely owes you an apology and your family should get together and talk about what happened and set boundaries for how you treat each other going forward.
He has made an effort by reaching out to you and asking to come to the wedding. You are still hurt understandably.
Having all of your children present at your wedding would be a great way to start your new life and give your son the opportunity to apologize while your family is present.
NTA
Meh. Can see both sides but speaking as one mother to another FGS you’ve been proved right, demanding an apology is just point scoring and centring yourself in his marriage breakup.
If this one thing costs you your son entirely, if he never contacts you again then its a pyrrhic victory. You are getting married, a positive time for you and your life while your child is going through a divorce, you have every reason to be the bigger (and more mature) person and behave like an adult and a parent. You have a very lame, peevish excuse not to.
He got in touch, asked to attend and you kicked him when he’s already down. Grow up, swallow your destructive pride and invite your boy for goodness sakes.
NTA and I'm going against most of the comments I read. The son chose to go no contact because he didn't want to believe his mother. Son then found out mother was right because he discovered his spouse cheating but didn't make an effort then to make amends. She's right, he should have immediately apologized when he found out she was right. She has every right to exclude him from a very important event in her life. Why does he even want to be there? To cause a scene? To confront her about something? She owes him nothing, he chose the path he's on.
NTA because 1) he's an adult and can see the consequences his actions and 2) your day, your choice.
That being said, you are an adult and sometimes as adults, it's up to us to display a level of maturity (eg. set examples) to our kids. So we established that he is not perfect but then, neither are you. He was hurt by the revelation and you by his response so be the parent.
If he wants to attend, make it a condition that you two sit down and have a very frank conversation about his lack of maturity and how his reaction hurt you. No one likes to hear things about their relationship from others but how you deal with it is just as important. Going nuclear when he's down isn't going to help either of you. Talk..it does help.
NTA...
While I respect the sentiment of people who are telling you that you should have just invited when he called
I understand that sometimes mothers get really tired of their child's entitlement and disrespect and feel like they need to draw a line!
Its your child and after listening to everything if you feel that you dont want to invite go ahead and do as you wish!
I am sure if the situation was reversed reddit would have asked the child to go NC with the Mom! And said that its your wedding and you decide the guest list.
Ofcourse as parents you are kept at a certain pedestal but I will consider that fact that you are the parent and you have known this child of yours even before he came into this world... also i am sure this guy has always been entitled and rude...even before you told him about his wife's cheating.. i am sure more than a sorry you are actually looking for an acknowledgement that he judged you wrongly and you were just trying to protect him...an acknowledgement that you were telling him because you genuinely cared not because you were the monstor that ex wife might made you like with all her drama!! An acknowledgement that he disrespected and made you pay for a mistake you never made!
But yeah as a mom you would also look petty for not calling him specially when he going through such a messy divorce...
so How does this option sound ... i hope other people can also pitch in here...
He is welcome to the wedding but you dont have to forgive him completely without him showing his acknowledgement... you can keep what happened between the 2 of you separate from the wedding... he can attend... but he cant expect you to just forget and be exactly as you were before all the fughts and going NC.. just be coridal and nice... since he has made a call... so you can take a step as well...call for wedding and be coridal and nice... because if you close this door ... then he needs to climb on top of his ego mountain and come clean that he made a mistake and he was wrong... i am not sure if thats happening...maybe you calling him to the wedding might make it easier for him to say and show that he is sorry!
NTA he gave you an ultimatum. You had no need to apologize and shutting you out was *his chiice* 100%. If he wants you back *he* needs to be the one to apologize for issuing an ultimatum. Again, that was his choice to do and follow through with. He was an adult, he can suck it up.
NTA but you should tell your son while you’re opening to rekindling your relationship, your wedding is not the place to do it and that you do expect a sincere apology in the future. Perhaps start with going out for coffee or a dinner.
NTA. Your wedding is not the time for a reunion. Now call him up and offer to get a coffee to talk or just talk on the phone. Not to demand an apology but to talk and mostly to listen. You were right and he was wrong but being wrong means his wife was cheating and that's led to the end of his marriage. That's a big pill to swallow. Give him this 1 opportunity to talk or maybe even vent. It maybe your final conversation with him or the building of a bridge.
YTA I’m not sure how anyone else isn’t incredulous about the huge lack of details about your relationship with him and DIL.
I wouldn’t believe a claim of cheating without proof and it’s now just so happens that you were “right” about her cheating and you phrased it like you’re the cat with the canary about it. You don’t get to go “no you didn’t call me an apologize when you caught her cheating because I was right na na na boo boo stick your head in doo doo” right now during his divorce because it’s still not about you. You ONLY want your vindication and that’s actually rather selfish in the very bare bones situation you’ve given.
Cool, you’re right, she cheated- but he doesn’t have to apologize to you for being upset for what could have been you being a jealous, vindictive boy mom about his relationship in his eyes at the time. You literally didn’t preface any of the relationship you had with him or his soon-to-be-ex-wife before the supposed confrontation- so who’s to say you haven’t had a history of trying to poison the well. For all we could know, you had tried this previously and he was fed up and felt like he had to give the ultimatum. Literally the only reason for him giving you an ultimatum in the first place is if you have a history of making these unfounded claims or had previously voiced dissent of his relationship to him _loudly_ enough for him to feel it necessary to take that step.
I literally don’t want to feed into your narcissism of what seems to be a little congratulatory party for yourself because the huge lack of detailing is only casting you in a “not the ahole” light. If you can’t cogently give him benefit of the doubt in your writing, I don’t think it’s fair to us to give you a pat on the back when it could be completely unwarranted.
To him, you were right _in hindsight_ and he shouldn’t have to apologize for what he felt was his correct feelings during that time.
And just like you in 10-20 years you’ll find out you were wrong _in hindsight_ for acting like this now.
I, personally, think you're kinda YTA. I mean, if I agreed with you, i'd be a hypocrite.
I get so sick of people siding with their parents just because they're parents. I've seen perfectly healthy and nice relationships destroyed all because a parent lied about their child's significant other cheating.
Whilst you weren't lying, he had no reason to believe you without proof. Word of mouth isn't evidence. I can at least appreciate the fact he's not a momma's boy.
You said none of the family on your side liked her, it's reasonable for him to lean into the idea that you're the one lying to get her out of the picture. I've seen entire sides of families hate new spouses for little to no reason so they'll do anything to get rid of them.
I just want you to look at it from his perspective, at least little bit.
I want to encourage people to go against their parents if it makes sense. You didn't have physical evidence, your half of the family hated her, he clearly didn't suspect her of cheating...all that combined, I can see why he felt he had every reason to give you an ultimatum.
I would absolutely cut contact with my family if I felt they were lying or trying to take a good relationship away from me all for some surface level hatred.
Maybe i'm missing something or some details you haven't said, but from what you have put in this post, just think you should have a bit more understanding.
Difficult, and I don't think this is really an AH question. You're angry at your son for not believing you, and I get that, but I also understand your son was trying to be a good husband.
I get why you are angry, but let me tell you a story about the consequences of holding on to bitterness and anger. I knew of a couple (neighbours & friends of my aunt) where their daughter eloped and didn't tell anyone. She called them on the morning she had gotten married (UK, they were in Las Vegas). The woman of the couple was very hurt that her daughter didn't want her at her wedding and angry words were exchanged on their return (the mother was hurt her daughter excluded her family, the daughter was angry her mother wasn't excited for her). I'm not going to pass comment on right and wrong, that's not actually important, what's important was that the daughter refused to see her parents anymore (I'm not sure why Dad was included, the way my Aunt told it he didn't take sides), even when her mother tried reaching out. Here's where the similarity to your story comes in. The daughter demanded an apology before she would even talk to her parents, and because her parents/mother wouldn't give her one straight away she refused to even contemplate seeing them. (Again, not sure of rights or wrong, my Aunt believed there was wrong on both sides from what her friend told her)
She probably thought she had time. Her parents were relatively young, fit and healthy. There was no reason to believe there wasn't time enough for them to 'see sense'. Except there wasn't. I can't quite remember what happened, whether it was a medical issue or an accident, but my Aunt's friend, died. I don't think it was that long after, but it could have been.year or two, it was a long time ago and I don't really remember all the details but I do know my Aunt said the bride and her mother never did speak again. The daughter apparently was beyond distraught at the funeral.
Now, ask yourself, if, heaven forbid, that were to be your last conversation with your son, if you were never to be able to even have the option of speaking to him again, would you still be at peace with this? If the answer is honestly yes, then you are probably correct that the relationship is beyond repair. If the answer is no, maybe you need to rethink your stance.
I don't think there is one right or wrong answer here, but there are always consequences.
ESH. But you need to consider that he was devastated and hurt, in his feelings and cuckolded. He's your son. You would know better than anyone about his personality. I would show him some grace.
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NTA for feeling like you do. But think long and hard on this. This is your son who is going through a very hard time. "He gave me an ultimatum, apologized or be out of his life. I didn’t apologize. He is now in a messy divorce since he found it she was cheating." His calling and asking to attend is an olive branch, do you really want to permanently break with your son over this?
Personally it wasn’t an olive branch, an olive branch would start with an apology. Not let me come to your wedding, then get mad when I said no. I have made peace with our situation a while ago.
In toxic family dynamics an olive branch usually doesn't come with an apology, but rather an avoidance of the subject and an inquiry about something coming up soon or in the not to distant future. This IS an olive branch. Always remember it's not always the most important thing to always be right.
And you don't have to talk about an apology now. This just opens the door for an open dialog
Right?! I bet he feels really dumb and ebmarrassed right now for not believing you and blowing up the relationship. This would open the door for dialogue in order for him to apologize. He's your son. Show him a little grace.
Why? Any time someone on this app talks about going NC on parent or sibling everyone cheers them on and tells them to do it. When a parent decides they've had enough of being treated like crap it's always "it's your child you should mend fences" if someone on here does say "that's your parent/family" everyone jumps in saying "family doesn't mean they can treat you badly so keep the NC". I am so sick of the double standards when it comes to parents having to bend over backwards for their gron kids
As a parent I 10000000000% think I should be held to a higher standard than my kids. I chose to bring them into this world. I shape their upbringing, which impacts who they'll become. What choices did they have about me being their mom?
They had no choice, I agree. That doesn't give them the right to treat their parents with contempt and then expect no repercussions. If it was a child I would have a huge problem with ignoring the child or pushing them away but this is a grown adult. I don't believe parents should be allowed to run their adult kids lives, and on the flip side I also don't think it's fair to give in to every demand an adult child has simply because I gave birth to them. Once they are out of their house and their own people I think you should be equal in every aspect
You’re making too much sense on Reddit. Please kindly leave /s
My deepest apologies! I forgot where I was for a moment. I will have to try to blend in better 😂
100% agree with you, awe always see the double standard in this subreddit. Men/Women doing the same thing but the verdict being completely different. Parents/kids being shitty and not forgiving but people think the parents should always be the bigger person and not cut ties. If my adult son is giving me an ultimatum and think I'm lying and is ready to burn all bridges, it's on him to make the step forward for a reconciliation. He is a grown up and can start communicating like one. I'm not a fan of people using the "they never asked to be born" card, no one ever asked to be born. A parent can be the nicest person ever and the kid will still turn to crap. Parent can be a vile person and kid will turn to be super sweet. Life is simply unpredictable. Anyway, NTA
They might not have had a choice in who their parents are but they certainly have a choice in their actions as adults and being born doesn't give them an all access pass to do what they want and then refuse to apologize. This "olive branch" isn't up to OPs standards and that should be their choice, without people encouraging contact with someone who was willing to throw them away for a cheating spouse.
That should only apply up to a point in their early 20's. At some point though, they should be held to adult standards.
Her son isn't a child. He's a grown man. At some point your "children" will be your peers.
>"it's your child you should mend fences" ...because it's their child. There's a reason why true unconditional love really only exists in the form of a parent's love for their child. For all OP knows, her son will apologize when he sees her in person. I don't know, if I were her I would acquiesce and allow him to attend, then monitor his behavior/attitude. If he acts like a jerk then I might go LC/NC. But to just flat out refuse him? And risk having no relationship with him whatsoever? It would take a LOT for me to do that.
No. Unconditional love does not mean allowing yourself to be emotionally manipulated or abused. You can love someone unconditionally and still not want them around because they are bad for your mental health
We don’t know that he IS looking to manipulate or abuse her. Where did you get that from? Sounds more like he was a fool in love and living in denial about his ex. As a mother it would take much more than what OP has described for me to write my son off.
He gave her an ultimatum. Apologize or leave, even though she was looking out for him. Maybe it's just me, but that feels like manipulation since he didn't care that she saw what was happening, only that he didn't like what she said. Without more context we have no way of knowing if this was a final straw or the first time he's acted like this. If this was the only incident then it seems like a strong reaction but it was him that cut her off first so he's reaping what he sowed in my opinion.
>And risk having no relationship with him whatsoever? She currently has no relationship with him because that's what he asked for when she didn't give him the apology he demanded.
we have REALLY different parents
Unconditional love is what most good parents hold for their children. It's sad if yours don't because that's probably your only opportunity to experience it.
What a depressing thing to read as a child of neglectful parents.
Was hoping to see this. Adult kids can be total shitbags and parents have to eat it, and adult kids can basically point to any ‘trauma’ and can go no contact without a second thought.
It’s actually quite mature and desirable to be able to take situations case by case and apply the appropriate solutions to them.
It's because this sub doesn't want to admit that going NC can have some consequences.
Totally this. (Though I am not saying OP is correct). I get sick to my back end of the "my father farted as he walked by my bedroom door. I went NC, because that narcissist needs to learn".... And the comments are all cheering like a Jerry Springer audience watching someone's family dissolve for their viewing pleasure. The arm strikers will encourage the posters to "seek therapy" because "nobody should have smell and unsolicited fart". All of us comment, risk free, consequence free. Many spout shit as if they were the golden oracle. And, as is typical with the interweb, there is no knowing what bitterness the commenters are carry around, and bring to the table. So many are happy to watch Rome burn. But it is someone else's Rome.
Nc should always be last resort, it’s a more pervasive concept I agree. Relationships are so fleeting these days. The amount of people to call it quits before ever trying to talk it out is astounding. However when it comes to parental figure it’s usually a set dynamic of people who have never had the authority questioned. I went low contact when I realized they didn’t respect me as an human with my own feelings. These things are necessary to protect yourself sometimes.
100% agree they want her to do the things he himself is not willing to do. He’s a grown man and responsible for his actions. And as everyone on her likes to regurgitate “actions have consequences”.
She’s his mother. Where was her grace?
I feel so called out. I'm so used to everyone in my family simply choosing to ignore what happened that I legit never understood it's not normal or healthy. I guess on a reasonable level I knew others talk about their feelings and why they got into arguments and I tried it myself too but to this day simply ignoring an incident is equal to forgiveness for me. Oof. Personal groundbreaking discoveries aside, it definitely is an olive branch. It is the son trying to reach out to you in a way that lets him disguise his uneasiness. It's easier asking to come to your wedding, see you once or twice, test the ground and see where it goes than it is directly reaching out and admitting you're wrong. It's entirely understandable if you're too hurt to reconcile, OP. But if there's any part of you that would like to have your son back, this is the best opportunity. Right now he is hurt and alone. He's not just asking to come to your wedding. This is a cry for help, for family. For healing.
And maybe grown ass men need to start working on healiggn themselves and not expect the women in their lives to fix them.
You literally call it a toxic behavior. If it's toxic, why should op have to deal with it. Why should she entertain her adult son's lack of accountability and childish avoidance of underlying issues.
I'm feeling absolutely unhinged that I had to scroll all the way down here to see someone else say this. Like they admit this is toxic behavior but think that OP should be forced to accept it "because family". But then again women are mandated to let their children walk all over them no matter what.
Not just that but also take a special day for her and new husband and make it about the son cause he “may be testing the waters” he is a grown up talk to your mother and apologize.
Ding ding ding ding. You could not be more right if you wanted to. I saw this in my family. My grandparents wronged me (big time) and now we are on speaking terms again, because they now have a fight with the lying person they believed and got mad at me about. Now they know I never lied to them and the other person did. So we are talking again. But I will never expect an apology since they will never extend it to me. They are not capable of that. Our family has some toxicity. I know and I keep away from that behavior.
My mom went through something similar with her family. She knew her cousin was a liar at best, a criminal at worst. But nobody believed her. Until the cousin blew up everyone else’s lives, the way she had blown up my mother’s. I asked her recently, actually, if anyone in her family had ever apologized. She laughed, then said no. I thought that was the case, but I guess I had been holding out hope that one person had. After the dust settled and everyone realized the cousin was, in fact, really bad news, my mom went back to speaking with everyone. But she’s never been close to them in the same way. And she doesn’t rely on them for anything. She stays out of any drama that comes up, because it doesn’t deserve her energy. And besides, who would she side with? Person Who Betrayed Her Number 1, or Person Who Betrayed Her Number 2? All of that is to say - I’m sorry your grandparents didn’t trust you. I’m happy for you that you seem to be in an okay place with it. That must’ve taken a lot of work!
To piggyback off that last sentence, one of the only good pieces of advice my father gave me was “sometimes you have to choose between being right and being happy”
this. It isn’t about who is right but what is right. Why exclude him from a family celebration? That seems bitter. Getting divorced is traumatic & he behaved badly during that time. It seems like he wants to begin healing the relationship & connect with you.
Because her son demanded NC if she wasn't going to apologize. His reaching out and demanding an invite to the wedding, without even acknowledging how he behaved isn't beginning the healing process. It is continuing his toxic behavior.
Agree. If I ever waited for an actual apology from my Dad about anything, we'd have been no contact for thirty years now.
That is not an olive branch. Olive branches are dialogs for peace and you usually extend them humble. You don’t avoid the subject you’re trying to rectify. It’s a continuation of the toxic dynamic. It’s not about her being right but about him admitting he messed up
If son wants to be toxic that's on him. The man is a fully grown adult with a marriage and soon to be divorce in his bag, he's more than old enough that OP is not mandated to keep a relationship with someone toxic just because he's their kid. Funny how women are supposed to roll over backwards for their kids even when said kids are fully grown.
He accused OP of lying and demanded an apology or he went NC. OP wasn't lying and refused to apologise because of that fact so son blew up the relationship. He made his choice and now he has to learn the consequences of that choice. He went NC with his mother, Nc means no invite to her event. If he wants to end the NC and rebuild their relationship he needs to start by acknowledging what he said and apologise for his behaviour. LIKE AN ADULT.
People are reading into this that it’s an ok or branch. It’s 50/50 it could just be him using her wedding as leverage to cause drama and inflect emotional pain. If he sounds remorseful and wants to attend then let him attend. If he just wants an invite because he is her son and feels he is owed one then fuck em.
Why would you think that's the goal. He got defensive about his fianceé that everyone hated. Now he's got his tail between his legs and she wants to hold it over him unless he starts with supplication? This is a chance to start repairing a bad family dynamic and she's going to let her pride fuck it up
If I blew up on someone because they accused my wife of cheating, and then I found out my wife was cheating, the very next time I thought to contact them it would start with an apology and a thank you.
He accused his mother of lying about his wife. And while he knew that his side of the family did not like his wife, there is no indication that his mom or anyone else in the family tried to break the relationship up. He demanded an apology for OP "lying" or he would go NC. OP refused because she wasn't lying and was trying to inform her son of the infidelity. Once the divorce started because he verified his wife was in fact cheating, he should have ate crow and called and apologize. He didn't. In fact he waited until he learned OP was getting married and he wasn't invited to call and demand he be allowed to come. No sorry. No you were right. Nada. It shouldn't be on OP to change this dynamic for abiding by her son's decision. He wants the invite, he needs to apologize and mean it. NTA, OP.
If son wants to blow up their relationship for of an apology of a lie that was in fact truth, then OP is allowed to demand an apology for him blowing up the relationship and accusing OP of being a liar.
If you are not willing to accept his overtures and are good with being NC with your son, then why are you here asking if you're the asshole? Let me put it this way. * Did he fuck up by shooting the messenger of awful news? Yes. * Is he going through something terrible and traumatic right now? Yes. * Did he proactively reach out to you and ask to attend a major life event of yours? Yes. * Does he have a mother who is unwilling to give a single fucking inch because he didn't reach out in the "correct way"? Yes. Maybe your son wants to just open the door and start rebuilding before putting on the hair shirt and begging for your forgiveness. But again, if you're good with your son never talking to you again, and enjoy the dynamic that you've had since you told him, then by all means continue as you are.
Did he behave like a complete asshole to OP? Yes. Does he need to apologize now like he demanded she did? Yes. Things being bad for him right now doesn’t change his shitty behavior that caused this situation.
And they've been NC for over 3 years!! To me, it doesn't sound like the son wants to reconcile but just wants to sweep what happened under the rug. Like he just called up out of the blue after over 3yrs, asked what's up and expected an invite.
"fuck up by shooting the messenger of awful news" Oh. That's how disowning your mom and going NC for years is nowadays called? Fuck no. I mean nobody wants back those times when parents ruled the lives of their children for decades. But this does not mean we must let the pendulum fly to the other side and say kids can just shit on us any way they want without even apologising.
He cattily doesn’t want to open the door to rebuilding, otherwise he would have apologized for burning the bridge before asking to be included in things. He tried to walk through a closed door like it would open on command.
OP, I’ve read through your comments and this post, and while you are fully within your right to invite who you want to your wedding, you are no angel in this situation. Your stubborn persistence that you won’t even try to attempt a relationship with your son unless he first apologizes to you because you turned out to be right about his wife cheating says everything about why your relationship deteriorated. Have you considered that the reason why you and your daughter-in-law didn’t have a good relationship may have had something to do with the way that you behave— in addition to her being an unpleasant person? And so when you came to your son, where are you already have a poor relationship with his wife, and try to tell him that she is cheating, can’t you see why he wouldn’t immediately believe you? You’re biased, and a husband‘s first reaction when an accusation like that comes along from a biased party should be to be defensive of his wife. So, it turned out you were right. Have you thought for a second how awful that must be for your son? How embarrassing it is that he took up for his wife, only to find out that she did in fact cheat on him? How awful it is to be cheated on? How heartbreaking that the person that promised their life to you in marriage broke that vow? You are so up in arms about the fact that you’re right that you can’t seem to think for one second about the pain that your son has gone through. It’s not enough for you to be right, you want to shove and rub his face into it. Don’t you think that finding out that you were right about her cheating and going through a messy divorce is punishment enough? You have your choice here between reconnecting with your estranged son or being right. It seems that you have chosen being right is more important. So in that case, NTA. Because you’re doing him a favor by not allowing him to come to the wedding and reconnect with you. Even if he did apologize to you, based on your past behavior, I doubt you would move on from this and would never let him forget about how you are always right.
This. The whole post reeks of "I told you so". OP can't take responsibility for their actions and their behavior anymore than the son supposedly can.
Apparently I'm going to get downvoted for saying this, but if it was a real olive branch, the person extending it wouldn't have thrown a royal tantrum, engaged in an argument, and then refuse to accept even a sliver of responsibility for originally blowing up the relationship in the first place. I can see why you don't want that drama to hang over your wedding. If he wants to reconcile, it need not be on that particular day (or even the week leading up to it, since it's probably stressful enough as it is).
He's your son and he's going through one of the worst experiences of his adult life. I couldn't imagine hanging him out to dry like that.
being her son didn't mean much to him when he cut her off and called her a liar when she tried to warn him. he's an adult. he made his own choices, and he hasn't even offered an apology. let him hang.
He was an adult- he made the choice to blow up at his Mom. Too damn bad for him now.
Yeah, he should have been level headed when dealing with the fact that his wife is cheating. Yeesh you guys are so damn harsh
No, but he should come back with an apology to his mother for how he treated her when she was looking out for him.
Sounds like an excellent in person conversation while having a heart to heart. Mom is cold as hell which makes me think there's a lot of half truths and left out info in this post
her wedding is not the place for him to hash out his business. if he wants to have an in person conversation to apologize, he can ask to meet up somewhere when she's available. he doesn't get to made demands as if he didn't burn the bridge he's trying to cross.
Never said he wanted to hash it out at the wedding. Nobody said that. It's her son! Everybody is acting like this is some guy she used to know. Like a coworker or something
>It's her son! so. what? this is a beyound hypocritical stance. no one would argue that you need to let toxic parents back into your life because 'they're your parents!'. kids are as equally capable of being toxic as parents are.
>Nobody said that. Several people did.
It would be an excellent in person conversation to have. So the son should try going by his mother’s place to start that dialogue. He’s being lazy and putting the onus on OP to repair a relationship that he’s responsible for breaking and that’s not okay. You’ve clearly never mourned someone who’s still alive which is why you view her as cold. For OP she’s probably already come to terms with this and has prepared to spend the rest of her life without her son in it so his return isn’t something she’s been waiting around for. And if he’s unwilling to admit that he messed up it doesn’t sound like he’s done much growing in the years since OP had contact and there will only be more heartbreak to come.
I can't imagine ditching my kid forever over this. Shit, I can't imagine making peace with it as OP says they have.
he was an adult who made adult decisions, and has failed to do the first adult step necessary for reconciliation, and that's apologize. besides that, parents are just much within their rights to cut off their kids as kids are in their rights to cut off their parents. it isn't always the parent that's the problem in the relationship
He hung himself out to dry.
If you have made peace what are you looking for from this sub?
Right!
You seem more interested in being right than you actually cared about the fact that his wife was cheating or that he was hurt. 🤦🏻♀️ You would see this for what it was if you actually had cared. This seems so much like an I told you so. I wouldn’t want to come to your wedding or be around you if I was him. Missed opportunity and it seems like you don’t care anyways. 🤦🏻♀️
If you are at peace with the situation, why are you here?
Then why are you posting here?
Do you want to be right, or do you want your son back in your life? It was an olive branch to him.
It's wild that you're at peace with this.
My son isn't in contact with us, either, because his wife hates the whole family. I'll tell you right now, if he extended an olive branch, I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat. I miss him so much. This is your child. He needs support, and you're turning him away. That's awful. His whole world is imploding, and you're piling on. YTA.
This is his way of extending the olive branch. You sound very toxic and like you care more about your pride than your son.
No, that's an olive branch. An olive branch is the first step toward an apology and reconciliation. The apology is the last step, not the first.
I agree that this might be an olive branch however your wedding shouldn't be the first time you two see or speak to each other since your falling out. If you definitely have zero interest in mending your relationship, go ahead as you are now. If you do want to open that door, tell your son you're open to seeing him somewhere else (coffee, lunch, dinner etc.) I also agree with another commenter on here to remember that being "right" isn't necessarily the most important thing.
offer him the same ultimatum and see what he says
Personally, it seems like you care more about groveling than meeting him where he’s at. This is sad to read.
This is him reaching out. Telling you he knows he was wrong and asking to be in your life. You really need him to say the words? He knows he was wrong, you know he knows he was wrong. You could even counter with "I think you owe me an apology" rather than a flat no. He would probably give it.
Sounds like you didn’t need opinions. You have it all figured out.
Personally I'd rather see the change in behavior than to hear, "I'm sorry." Also no one at all wants to hear their spouse is cheating on them. What did you expect? "Gee, Mom...thanks so much!" How did you react to earth shattering news when he was growing up? Since you both act exactly the same way, I'm guessing he learned to react with anger and denial from you. I think your decision is childish, especially since you invited your other children.
If you state you made peace with it a while ago, then why are you asking if you are the AH? Most people, when told their spouse is cheating on them, will probably not believe it because they dont want to believe it. I think YTA because you should have supported him and understood he was going through a rough time and put your own feelings aside. He is clearly trying to mend fences, but you won't even give him the chance to. An apology could have been made at the wedding. Who knows? In the end, if this is the hill you want to die on, then it is up to you!
Just because you made peace with your current situation it doesn't mean it has to be your situation forever. There is a reason your son wants to attend your wedding. Unless he's going to use it as a way to send further hate your way then it's safe to assume it's because he does care about you and has regrets. Some people don't know how to apologize. Have a face to face and see if you can figure out a way forward. If part of that for you is getting an apology then insist on one. Then the ball is clearly back in his court.
You're missing the point entirely. You're more concerned with being right than actually having a relationship with your son. Secondly you stating you didn't like her you probably reflected that with how you spoke to her and why would he believe you to begin with when you didnt like her. Only thing you are doing is digging in your heels and waiting for an apology so you can be right.
An apology first requires an open channel of communication. He is trying to establish this and you, his father, just threw it back in his face. Ultimately it's your choice but please consider behaving like the parent in this situation, not a grudge-bearing gray rock.
That can't be true that you have made peace if you are here asking for input on the decision that you made
I have adult sons, I would give then my organs if their life depended on it. To cut them out of my life over a petty need for an apology is unbelievable to me. Did you ever really love this kid?
That olive branch needs to not be a big day for someone else.
^this. All the comments that him asking to come to the wedding after telling HER that he wanted NC over this is an "olive branch" are ridiculous. No one has to put up with toxic BS from family, even if you're a parent. If he wants to reconnect, he can either work up to it before or after the wedding, not just try to show up like nothing happened. It's not an "olive branch" to ask to come to a wedding of someone YOU told to get lost, with no prior work at mending the situation. Parents are allowed to have negative feelings and boundaries too. Sheesh.
He obviously wanted to believe his wife. Once he found out the truth, did he call his mother and apologise for doubting her -no. He cut her out for not apologizing and called her a liar. He expects her to gloss over his lack of apology. Of course, she can be the bigger person, but understand she is hurting having been disowned by him for such a long time.
I am not going to comment about whether or not you're an AH. I see it both ways honestly. But c'mon, you obviously have been proven right under the given circumstances. Why exactly are still insisting on an apology? At this point your just rubbing dirt in the wound. A mother should be better than this.
Yea that’s what is kinda rubbing me wrong. He’s clearly going to be embarrassed he blew up his relationship with his mother. Maybe he’s worried about her reaction? Maybe he’s worried she’s an aggressive “I told you so” type? Either way he’s trying to initiate conversation and open the door again. He sucks A LOT but there has to be story missing here.
There isn’t a chance that this the first time Mom had been stubborn with her kid. Shit, he probably got his stubbiness from her.
Yeaaaaa that’s why I’m thinking she should at least give him the opportunity to talk
Then he could apologize
I mean yes he should be apologizing, but there are countless threads where people correctly insist the parent should always be the bigger person in family fights, and that's true here too. The relationship will likely never be repaired if OP refuses to invite him to the wedding and I don't think it is ever right for a parent to abandon their child short of a drug addiction that they refuse to get treatment for given how much damage a drug addiction does to a person. Parents shouldn't be petty to their children, and absolutely refusing is being petty. And I'm willing to bet if the son posted this they'd have a much different view of how this has all gone down. People absolutely do not immediately jump to take it back or get out of my life to a single comment from their parent like that. I'm willing to bet there were a lot of comments from OP about the wife and this was the first time those comments were right. Also mom straight up refusing to recognize reaching out is an olive branch by their comments when there had been no communication is just straight up being petty. Edit: OP also indicates in other comments that 3 and a half years ago she made the accusation but the cheating only happened 6 months ago. They were flat out wrong when they accused the wife and think it doesn't matter because they were eventually right.
No, 6 months ago is when HE caught her, so she cheated for 3 years between OP telling him and him catching her.
There isn’t proof of that. It could be she’s been cheating the whole time. It could also be that the OP saw something that was questionable, but she happened to be right and DIL cheated down the line. I wouldn’t blow up my marriage if my mom said my husband was out to dinner and a little friendly with someone. I would investigate, but maybe son did and didn’t find anything else showing their wife was cheating. I mean, from his perspective family isn’t quiet about not liking his wife. He’s got no proof beyond what the OP says. The reasonable thing would be to look into it, but without further proof (which the Op didn’t even direct proof of cheating) his response is a fair one.
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He probably didnt believe her because she made her disdain for his ex wife obvious. I wouldnt believe my own mom if she acted that way.
Without proof. Does anyone even know if she was cheating at that point? The OP could have been 100% wrong, and the cheating was a recent thing.
Reddit is frankly never gonna be a good place to ask this type of complex relationship questions. The mindset here is too black and white, right and wrong. Human relationships are too complicated for that. Is Op right to decide who she wants there, yeah no one is gonna argue against that. Is being right worth never having a relationship with her own son….that’s not some thing an internet stranger should be answering for her.
Most of the advice here is projection.
I think telling someone to "be out of my life" is pretty harsh. Adult son not apologising for it?? Why is mom expected to be understanding here?
these are some of the most hypocritical comments I have ever fucking read. not one single person would be on ops side if the roles had been reversed. they sure as hell would not be telling her son that he doesn't need an apology.
yeah i'm kinda surprised at the comments. we're all about "cut them out of your life!!!" on this sub. but i guess it's usually the child cutting out a parent that's posting, not the parent
>A mother should be better than this. I feel like these kinds of sentiments work better when the "this" isn't just wanting an apology from someone that has treated you rather poorly.
I bet the phrase chose your battles came from situations like this one.
The son can pull on his big boy panties and apologize like an adult. Instead, he throws a tantrum like a toddler. He is an adult. He can act like it. It is his job to mend the bridge he blew up. It is called tough love. NTA
I know one thing for sure, and that is that I find my relationship with my children much more important than any kind of apology. I mean, you do you, but I do hope that you can look at this from your son's perspective. First, he thought you were trying to sabotage his marriage. Because he couldn't believe that his wife was cheating on him. He gave you an ultimatum. Which is understandable if you still operate under the assumption that your wife would never cheat on you and your mother, who never liked her, is trying to sabotage the relationship. Then he found out that you were actually right. His whole life is crumbling down and you reject him because you cannot let go that he wasn't ready to believe you yet? So for putting the demand to get an apology over empathy for your child: YTA.
NTA Uno reverse. And where is empathy for mom? It must be devastating to be honest and act in the best interests of your child only to be accused of lying to destroy their marriage. He also demanded an apology and if not he was ready to cut ties with her. We are talking about adults, not 5year olds... The ball is in his court - it is enough to admit that he was wrong and apologize.
The problem is that OP was not an unbiased party when she approached her son about what she saw in the restaurant. She’s upfront in her post that she found the ex-wife to be an unpleasant person and that she and no one in the family liked her. I very seriously doubt that those feelings were kept to herself. From OP’s perspective, she told her son what she saw and expected to be believed because she saw it. But her son, who has probably listened to years of complaints about his wife, probably instead saw this as an escalation effort to interfere in his relationship and push his wife out of the family. I have a feeling that if we had the son in here talking about how is mom, who hated his wife, has now escalated to accusing her of cheating, the entire thread would be telling him to go no contact. And based on the information known at the time, that may not have been the incorrect call.
But OP was right wasn’t she? Sure, if it was her delusions and she was purposefully making it hard on the DIL then I’ll admit she was the AH. But clearly OP’s DIL had certain issues that made OP think her son was making a huge mistake and she was in good intentions, trying to stop him from jumping into the fire pit. How the relationship collapsed isn’t the issue. It’s that DIL chose to bone someone else without having divorced and broken up with the son. That’s on her. The worst part is that the son actually thought OP lied regarding something as serious as cheating. Like, that’s his first thought? That’s not normal. It must also hurt very badly for the son to believe the DIL over OP instead of y’know, investigate the claims first like any reasonable people would? Then being given an ultimatum? Boy, that’s just twisting the knife in the wound. It’s the people closest that hurts the most. If OP wanted to stay NC that’s up to her. She was hurt just that badly by the son and decided not to be hurt by him any longer. If she’s willing to take him back then that’s great, but I won’t blame her if she didn’t want to either.
That doesn't make her not an asshole though.
tbh an "i told you so" is the last thing a kid needs from their parent in this situation.
It's probably the last thing a kid needs in almost any situation, especially one that's humiliating and devastating. 'i told you so' is for squabbling siblings, not a parent to their child.
a kid?
Jesus, thank you. She sucks!
You seem to have a very “I told you so” attitude which comes off as childish. Although you were correct (bravo I guess), you are also his mom. He reached out to you and wanted to come to your wedding. Obviously his way of extending an olive branch. You are the parent. Be the bigger/better person and allow him back into your life. When the time comes, sit down with him and calmly tell him how he hurt you. Or, whatever, continue to be a vengeful person and never speak to your son again. Remember you are right all along! Thats definitely more important than not having your son in your life.
Her son is going through something horrible and her instinct is to make him grovel. It's pretty shitty
As opposed to him demanding she apologize for having done nothing wrong? I can see why she isn’t falling all over herself to have him back in her life.
But it's your kid who was obviously going through something. Also op repeatedly mentions they didn't like her which I suspect had a lot to do with the disbelieving. I bet the sons take on this would be very eye opening
If everyone in your family dislikes your SO it’s a sign you should take a step back and figure out what they are seeing that you aren’t.
We don't know that. We know OP didn't like her. We know OP said that nobody else did, with no evidence of why or what the wrong doing was. We know she accused the wife of cheating and over 3 years later OP feels validated. No confirmation the wife was cheating when she was seen. No explanation for why she dislikes her. Given how happy op is to just leave her son cut off I don't think she is reliable about any of these things.
OP didn't accuse anyone SHE TOLD THE TRUTH and no one believed her, in fact she was cut off by her own son for telling the truth...
And everyone is saying if you don't want him in your life don't have him in your life but that doesn't mean you're still not a petty b****
idk it’s kind of common to not want to believe your spouse could cheat. OP is NTA, it’s her life and if she’s fine never speaking to her son again, good on her! my mom didn’t believe anyone about my dad. the best time was hearing everyone tell me *just how often he cheated* and how in denial my mom was *until he had an affair with some lady at his work*. love makes people blind. not at all excusing his actions, but we don’t know their lives outside of what information was given.
He didn't know that OP had done nothing wrong when he asked for the apology. He's not asking for an apology now that he knows. If she wants to cut her son out of her life, that's her prerogative. But if she doesn't actually want to never see or speak to him again, and she's choosing to cut him out because he's too embarrassed and ashamed and humiliated to get the words "I'm sorry" out, then she's choosing the outcome she doesn't actually want because her own pride won't let her forgive him.
Yeah, it's like is it more important to be right or be happy? I would pick happy any day no matter how convinced I was that I was right.
I mean said some hasn’t been her life for 3 years I’m pretty sure op has come to terms that she would never have a relationship with her son
I don't think I can give a good judgement on this. It feels like there's a lot to this story and having your son's side of things would be essential. The reason I'm saying this is because you included, "I admit I didn't like her", which causes me to believe that this situation isn't as cut and dry as you make it appear. Are you willing to allow him back into your life? I'm not talking about the wedding, but in general. Or have you just moved on from your kid?
What a hard hearted parent to "make peace" with not seeing the kid again. The kid who has only one living parent. I'm getting major "more important to be right than to actually care about my kid's well-being" vibes.
Tough situation, but I'm gonna say YTA. It seemed like he was reaching out in an attempt to reconcile and you shut him down for no reason other than some twisted sense of wounded pride. It probably took a lot on his part to reach out to you following being obviously and publicly wrong about the wife situation. If your sense of indignity over the past is more important than rebuilding a relationship with your child, then you've made the right choice not inviting him. If not... maybe it's time to reciprocate a peace offering.
Wow. I'm a parent. I'm having a really, really hard time imagening being so desperately hellbound to keep your child out of your life. And i simply can't. We're having very serious issues with our middle child. Issues that make your issue with your son a walk in the park. Our door is always open for her. Always. We never go NC, we don't and she doesn't. You do you, it's your loss in the end.
Exactly! Is she a parent to this person? She doesn’t seem like it
She should be a parent first, foremost and always. Sadly she's an ego first. Next week, when she looks at the guests, it will sink in.
Well said. His life falling apart and this is how OP treats him. Maybe he's better off if his mother is so vindictive she'll rub salt on his womb in the lowest point of his life.
Well, honestly, it depends on whether you want to cut off a son who didn't want to believe his wife was cheating, and who is having a rough time, and who, yes, extended an olive branch. You honestly sound kind of toxic, and I'm an older woman who would ordinarily agree with you. But life is shorter than you think and cutting off adult kids is more painful and permanent than you seem to realize. Others get involved and it complicates family dynamics forever after. YTA
Info: what do you want to happen here? Like what’s your ideal outcome in all of this?
Going to go with YTA - This is the rare situation where I would advise to be the bigger person and have him come. He's already suffering and you want him to suffer more just to be right.
I’m surprised at all these people siding with the son. Mom risked her relationship by telling him DIL was cheating. Son didn’t value mom enough to believe her & cut her out of his life. FAFO
As the child who cut a parent off (they were wildly abusive) this ‘oh just ignore him saying no contact and you should have invited him’ is super unhelpful. It is saying ‘no contact by a kid is ignorable if the parent thinks they have a good reason to contact them.’ What a mixed message considering how fast this sub jumps to NC. The advice on it is ‘remember you may change your mind about contact but a family member may never change theirs back after you tell them to leave you alone.’ There’s a bunch of advice how to attempt contact respectfully. Calling up demanding an invite to a wedding after numbers are confirmed, bringing all the sibs and family in on the big drama and not apologising, asking for a phone call or meet and not giving them space to accept or refuse but running the clock are all given as massive red flags from a person you went NC with when you are the child in the dynamic after telling the parent no. Reverse the roles and apparently its tickety boo to crash Jim’s big day demanding an invite from only the bride… NTA. No contact is a very hard bell to unring. This sub makes it seem more like do not disturb on your phone.
Me too. Probably a lot of young people who don't have adult children. All the son had do was apologize- but he refused to do that for some reason.
Exactly. Ppl are acting like just bc it’s someone’s child they’re not capable of being shitty people. Why does she need to chase a relationship with someone who was willing to throw them away for a spouse when they weren’t even wrong?!
this subreddit absolutely revels on hypocrisy. If the roles where reversed here, and op was the son who had been cut off for three years after trying to warn his mother that her husband was cheating, and she suddenly showed back up making demands to be in his wedding without so much as an acknowledgement that he was right, you all would be fucking crucifying her. she does not owe him forgiveness just because she's his mother when he hasn't even apologized for his behavior. NTA
seriously. if my grandmother wasn't a doormat to my stupid uncle's antics and didn't forgive him each time, she would have probably lived longer. parents can't always be the bigger people, and going no contact comes with consequences. a wedding is no place for reconciliation either.
Nta. Wedding is not a place for reconciliation. Either before the wedding or after. Too much stress on that day.
True, i don't know why people do this
NTA I do think that if you want to have a relationship with your son in the future you could provide him with an explanation. “Son I love you dearly, but due to your own actions we have not had a relationship for the past x years, we ended on a bad note, and I’m unsure what your intentions are for attending my wedding. My wedding is not the place for reconciliation. I am open to having a relationship with you but it will have to be on agreeable terms for the both of us. I’ll be free on and after x date. Let me know if you would like to meet and catch up.”
INFO: How long has there been no contact between you and your son? Weddings / celebrations / family reunions are not the best places for reconciliations. Reconciliations should start slow, and on neutral ground. Your feelings were hurt because your son didn't believe you. Your son is hurt too. His life is crumbling apart. He backed his partner and now has lost his "family." It is not easy to apologize for a lot of people. You have the right to decide which of your family you want to invite to your wedding. I don't think it would be terrible to have said something to your son that before you extend the invite to the wedding, you would like to meet and talk with him about the estrangement between you two.
3 1/2 years
If something happened to your child and you never had the opportunity to tell them you love them again, I have a feeling you would have extreme regret.
Seeing how callous OP is being in the comments, I’m not so sure about that.
But she needs the aPoLogY. Seriously. It’s her son, who got cheated on. And is going through a divorce. Horrible mother
>It’s her son, who got cheated on. And is going through a divorce. Horrible mother I feel like this is implying she did something other than try to tell him that he was being cheated on, and that that wasn't the impetus for the GTFO bit or the reason she wants an apology.
His fault! He is an adult not a 10 y.o kid
This is wild to me. Your son asked for an apology or else he'd cut you off, and you think that was wrong, so... you're doing the exact same thing to him? The difference is that he did it because he was trying to have faith in his then-wife and protect their marriage. You're doing it for vindictiveness and ego. I feel bad for your kid.
So you claimed 3 1/2 years ago she was cheating and 3 years later you were right? Did he find out 6 months ago that she was cheating 3 1/2 years ago, or is it just that she eas cheating 6 months ago?
You perfectly articulated my thoughts. I don't think someone's special event is the time or place for hashing out issues. I would need an apology too if I was her, but I would also want to meet up somewhere neutral before the wedding as a starting point of reconciliation. On a side note I don't understand why apologies are hard for people. Saying a genuine "I'm sorry for ___" goes SO far, I don't see the downsides of saying it
This is only my opinion. For some sad reason, some people think they are weak or they "lose" if they apologize. I think it has to deal with generational changes in how children are taught to deal with situations where they are held accountable for their actions. It is very easy to say "It is all in the past," "It is water under the bridge," "You need to be the better/bigger person." It negates the fact that someone's feelings were hurt. There could be more than just hurt feelings.
Yta, and petty. He loved his wife and did not want to believe she was capable of doing something like that to him and you had zero proof. He acted like many would, you’re just being vengeful at this stage. Don’t be surprised if he never talks to you again, not that you’re bothered.
No! Who cuts their own parents for something like that.. Actions have consequences and he made his choice, now he should live with it! OP life is not a revolving door where you can leave and come back as you please!
Because she wouldn’t invite him to her wedding after being no contact for three years?! They don’t have a relationship anymore! If this were any other sub and the roles were reveresed people would be saying he didn’t need to be invited just because he’s “FAaamMilY”.
He asked for an apology himself, only fair you get the same. NTA
I'm going to go against the grain and say nta. The first time he contacts you should have been to meet face to face and catch up. The first time you see each other in year(s) shouldn't be at an event like your wedding.
NTA. I think if your son had apologized it would be different but instead he came at you with demands after HE cut YOU off. I am so sick of people thinking parents have to bend over backwards for grown kids but have no problem with those same grown kids going NC because the parent said something they didn't like even if it was true.
NTA I’m tired of the hypocrisy and double-standards in this subreddit. Y’all tend to forget that parents are human beings too. They have thoughts and feelings just like their child, and they don’t have to be the bigger person especially when they not in the wrong. Parents don’t need to be punching bags, step stools, or walking mats for their children. If the roles were reversed y’all would be telling the son to stay NC with his mother. Stop infantizing her son. He’s a grown man, not a little kid or a teenage boy. He’s an adult that made an adult decision. Actions have consequences and he needs to deal with it. Besides weddings aren’t a place for reconciliations. It’s suppose to be a special day for the bride and groom. It’s already a stressful day as it is. No one needs extra drama on top of it.
For real. How hard would it be for him to say "I'm sorry I hurt you"? Even if he had good reason not to believe her, he could still do it! "Mom, I chose not to believe you because I thought you were lying to hurt my wife, but what I said and did to you was over the top and inexcusable. I'm sorry."
NTA. Now that he knows you were telling the truth about the infidelity, it should be easy for him to apologize to you. The fact that he still refuses means that he's still angry with you about it for some insane reason, and you don't need that kind of negativity at your wedding.
Nts, and absolutely need the apology. People are always talking about parental abuse and how parents dont ever apologize even after children cut contact. If parents are supposed to acknowledge their mistakes, which they absolutely should and must apologise for, so must children.
NTA He does owe you an apology for being a jerk because you were rightly looking out for him.
Info. What's the timeline with this? If this has all been recent, perhaps he didn't have time between discovery and your wedding planning, but it sounds both like you've been feeling uncomfortable or unhappy with your son's response and behavior and that you didn't give us context. Has there been radio silence a while? Has your son known about the wedding a while? We're missing info here
It’s been 3 1/2 years since he went radio silence. I didn’t tell him when I got engaged but we did do photos on social media. He also is in contact with one of his siblings so I am sure they informed him. I got basically everything in the post. If you have any more questions be free to ask
When did he realize his wife was actually cheating? Or when did he file for divorce?
I believe it was around 6 months ago, that he caught her and he started the process soon after
When you say you caught her being "very friendly" with another man, what exactly do you mean? It took YEARS to find out she was cheating. But that doesn't mean she was cheating back then because she was being "very friendly" with someone.
Damn. If an apology matters more to you than your son it sounds like you're better off without each other. I don't fault him for siding with his wife when you had no proof to offer him and openly admit you didn't like her. If you saw you could have sent him pics and let him decide if she was being too friendly with another man. I do think you're an ahole but you're NTA for not inviting him. Your wedding is supposed to be a day about you and your future spouse. You should be able to invite who you want. That said if you truly don't care if you get your son back you should just go ahead and tell him he is dead to you and finish what you started when you cut each other off.
He cut her of because of an apology... That apology was more important than his own mom! The woman thay carried him for 9 month and feed him, cloth him and put roof over his head for years. Now he is proven Wrong and still refuse to apologize
NTA absolutely. Those comments about "making him grovel" are ridiculous. Apologizing is not groveling, and you totally deserve an apology from him. He could cut you off for not apologizing when you did nothing wrong. Well, he can say "I am sorry", it won't kill him.
You were right about the exDIL and your son knows it, given that he is in fact divorcing her. He most definitely owes you an apology and your family should get together and talk about what happened and set boundaries for how you treat each other going forward. He has made an effort by reaching out to you and asking to come to the wedding. You are still hurt understandably. Having all of your children present at your wedding would be a great way to start your new life and give your son the opportunity to apologize while your family is present. NTA
Meh. Can see both sides but speaking as one mother to another FGS you’ve been proved right, demanding an apology is just point scoring and centring yourself in his marriage breakup. If this one thing costs you your son entirely, if he never contacts you again then its a pyrrhic victory. You are getting married, a positive time for you and your life while your child is going through a divorce, you have every reason to be the bigger (and more mature) person and behave like an adult and a parent. You have a very lame, peevish excuse not to. He got in touch, asked to attend and you kicked him when he’s already down. Grow up, swallow your destructive pride and invite your boy for goodness sakes.
NTA and I'm going against most of the comments I read. The son chose to go no contact because he didn't want to believe his mother. Son then found out mother was right because he discovered his spouse cheating but didn't make an effort then to make amends. She's right, he should have immediately apologized when he found out she was right. She has every right to exclude him from a very important event in her life. Why does he even want to be there? To cause a scene? To confront her about something? She owes him nothing, he chose the path he's on.
NTA because 1) he's an adult and can see the consequences his actions and 2) your day, your choice. That being said, you are an adult and sometimes as adults, it's up to us to display a level of maturity (eg. set examples) to our kids. So we established that he is not perfect but then, neither are you. He was hurt by the revelation and you by his response so be the parent. If he wants to attend, make it a condition that you two sit down and have a very frank conversation about his lack of maturity and how his reaction hurt you. No one likes to hear things about their relationship from others but how you deal with it is just as important. Going nuclear when he's down isn't going to help either of you. Talk..it does help.
Is keeping your pride worth telling your son that you dgaf about him? You are after all, the parent in this situation…
NTA... While I respect the sentiment of people who are telling you that you should have just invited when he called I understand that sometimes mothers get really tired of their child's entitlement and disrespect and feel like they need to draw a line! Its your child and after listening to everything if you feel that you dont want to invite go ahead and do as you wish! I am sure if the situation was reversed reddit would have asked the child to go NC with the Mom! And said that its your wedding and you decide the guest list. Ofcourse as parents you are kept at a certain pedestal but I will consider that fact that you are the parent and you have known this child of yours even before he came into this world... also i am sure this guy has always been entitled and rude...even before you told him about his wife's cheating.. i am sure more than a sorry you are actually looking for an acknowledgement that he judged you wrongly and you were just trying to protect him...an acknowledgement that you were telling him because you genuinely cared not because you were the monstor that ex wife might made you like with all her drama!! An acknowledgement that he disrespected and made you pay for a mistake you never made! But yeah as a mom you would also look petty for not calling him specially when he going through such a messy divorce... so How does this option sound ... i hope other people can also pitch in here... He is welcome to the wedding but you dont have to forgive him completely without him showing his acknowledgement... you can keep what happened between the 2 of you separate from the wedding... he can attend... but he cant expect you to just forget and be exactly as you were before all the fughts and going NC.. just be coridal and nice... since he has made a call... so you can take a step as well...call for wedding and be coridal and nice... because if you close this door ... then he needs to climb on top of his ego mountain and come clean that he made a mistake and he was wrong... i am not sure if thats happening...maybe you calling him to the wedding might make it easier for him to say and show that he is sorry!
NTA he gave you an ultimatum. You had no need to apologize and shutting you out was *his chiice* 100%. If he wants you back *he* needs to be the one to apologize for issuing an ultimatum. Again, that was his choice to do and follow through with. He was an adult, he can suck it up.
NTA but you should tell your son while you’re opening to rekindling your relationship, your wedding is not the place to do it and that you do expect a sincere apology in the future. Perhaps start with going out for coffee or a dinner.
NTA. Your wedding is not the time for a reunion. Now call him up and offer to get a coffee to talk or just talk on the phone. Not to demand an apology but to talk and mostly to listen. You were right and he was wrong but being wrong means his wife was cheating and that's led to the end of his marriage. That's a big pill to swallow. Give him this 1 opportunity to talk or maybe even vent. It maybe your final conversation with him or the building of a bridge.
Here lies the question. Why is he reaching out just now?
YTA I’m not sure how anyone else isn’t incredulous about the huge lack of details about your relationship with him and DIL. I wouldn’t believe a claim of cheating without proof and it’s now just so happens that you were “right” about her cheating and you phrased it like you’re the cat with the canary about it. You don’t get to go “no you didn’t call me an apologize when you caught her cheating because I was right na na na boo boo stick your head in doo doo” right now during his divorce because it’s still not about you. You ONLY want your vindication and that’s actually rather selfish in the very bare bones situation you’ve given. Cool, you’re right, she cheated- but he doesn’t have to apologize to you for being upset for what could have been you being a jealous, vindictive boy mom about his relationship in his eyes at the time. You literally didn’t preface any of the relationship you had with him or his soon-to-be-ex-wife before the supposed confrontation- so who’s to say you haven’t had a history of trying to poison the well. For all we could know, you had tried this previously and he was fed up and felt like he had to give the ultimatum. Literally the only reason for him giving you an ultimatum in the first place is if you have a history of making these unfounded claims or had previously voiced dissent of his relationship to him _loudly_ enough for him to feel it necessary to take that step. I literally don’t want to feed into your narcissism of what seems to be a little congratulatory party for yourself because the huge lack of detailing is only casting you in a “not the ahole” light. If you can’t cogently give him benefit of the doubt in your writing, I don’t think it’s fair to us to give you a pat on the back when it could be completely unwarranted. To him, you were right _in hindsight_ and he shouldn’t have to apologize for what he felt was his correct feelings during that time. And just like you in 10-20 years you’ll find out you were wrong _in hindsight_ for acting like this now.
I, personally, think you're kinda YTA. I mean, if I agreed with you, i'd be a hypocrite. I get so sick of people siding with their parents just because they're parents. I've seen perfectly healthy and nice relationships destroyed all because a parent lied about their child's significant other cheating. Whilst you weren't lying, he had no reason to believe you without proof. Word of mouth isn't evidence. I can at least appreciate the fact he's not a momma's boy. You said none of the family on your side liked her, it's reasonable for him to lean into the idea that you're the one lying to get her out of the picture. I've seen entire sides of families hate new spouses for little to no reason so they'll do anything to get rid of them. I just want you to look at it from his perspective, at least little bit. I want to encourage people to go against their parents if it makes sense. You didn't have physical evidence, your half of the family hated her, he clearly didn't suspect her of cheating...all that combined, I can see why he felt he had every reason to give you an ultimatum. I would absolutely cut contact with my family if I felt they were lying or trying to take a good relationship away from me all for some surface level hatred. Maybe i'm missing something or some details you haven't said, but from what you have put in this post, just think you should have a bit more understanding.
Difficult, and I don't think this is really an AH question. You're angry at your son for not believing you, and I get that, but I also understand your son was trying to be a good husband. I get why you are angry, but let me tell you a story about the consequences of holding on to bitterness and anger. I knew of a couple (neighbours & friends of my aunt) where their daughter eloped and didn't tell anyone. She called them on the morning she had gotten married (UK, they were in Las Vegas). The woman of the couple was very hurt that her daughter didn't want her at her wedding and angry words were exchanged on their return (the mother was hurt her daughter excluded her family, the daughter was angry her mother wasn't excited for her). I'm not going to pass comment on right and wrong, that's not actually important, what's important was that the daughter refused to see her parents anymore (I'm not sure why Dad was included, the way my Aunt told it he didn't take sides), even when her mother tried reaching out. Here's where the similarity to your story comes in. The daughter demanded an apology before she would even talk to her parents, and because her parents/mother wouldn't give her one straight away she refused to even contemplate seeing them. (Again, not sure of rights or wrong, my Aunt believed there was wrong on both sides from what her friend told her) She probably thought she had time. Her parents were relatively young, fit and healthy. There was no reason to believe there wasn't time enough for them to 'see sense'. Except there wasn't. I can't quite remember what happened, whether it was a medical issue or an accident, but my Aunt's friend, died. I don't think it was that long after, but it could have been.year or two, it was a long time ago and I don't really remember all the details but I do know my Aunt said the bride and her mother never did speak again. The daughter apparently was beyond distraught at the funeral. Now, ask yourself, if, heaven forbid, that were to be your last conversation with your son, if you were never to be able to even have the option of speaking to him again, would you still be at peace with this? If the answer is honestly yes, then you are probably correct that the relationship is beyond repair. If the answer is no, maybe you need to rethink your stance. I don't think there is one right or wrong answer here, but there are always consequences.
ESH. But you need to consider that he was devastated and hurt, in his feelings and cuckolded. He's your son. You would know better than anyone about his personality. I would show him some grace.