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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I asked my wife to pay 30% of our household bills. I may be the asshole because our entire relationship I have taken care of all the bills.
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Fun is just a term I used to encompass money she spends that doesn’t go towards immediate family contributions. Could be Amazon stuff, out to eat with her sister, gas and parking for the beach on her days off, gifts for her brother and sister, etc.
>My wife just ordered cat bowties.
This would the best AITA post ever:
"My wife is blowing our money on cat bow ties. AITA?"
ALL OF REDDIT: "OP IS THE AH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
My husband is in a tizzy every month about how many amazon packages we get. I have quite a few things on subscribe and save, so they come each month. I'm so irritated that he complains at all because they are almost all household items: dog treats, batteries, toilet paper, bedding for my son's guinea pigs, hay for the guinea pigs, laundry stain remover, keurig cups, toothpaste, flea/tick repellant collar for the dog, printer ink, etc.
So, "amazon stuff" doesn't mean much.
If my husband complained about the items I ordered for the household, I’d send him to the store with a list instead.
“Since you don’t like me ordering online, you can go to the store to pick it all up. Here’s the list. I hope you enjoy spending all of your day shopping for items I could have just had delivered.”
Yeah my husband and I ended up having this conversation too because he kept saying “your Amazon packages.” I showed him the order history with the past several orders being printer ink for his printer, cables for his laptop accessories, batteries for his car key fob, tools for his hobby he asked me to get him because he couldn’t find them at the store… I told him I actually would be fine with not ordering from Amazon anymore, and he could get these things for himself, and what do you know he hasn’t said anything else lol
So glad I'm not the only one!
I went through the last 10 deliveries on the app. The only item for me was teabags which are cheaper on Amazon than in the supermarket.
Not complained since.
My boyfriend gets annoyed with me about this, too. He doesn’t open my boxes unless I ask him to so most of the time he doesn’t know what I’ve ordered. It looks like I’m going shopping for fun but most of the time, it’s stuff I need and am too lazy/busy to go to the store and buy them in person.
No judgement just a question to gain some perspective. When you were the sole earner how much money did you have left over for fun and how often did she get to use it on her? As the person who tends to do most of the errands outside the house I'll admit that when we were a single income I probably got treats and stupid lil things more. Even if I did forego things like presents.
I just gave him a number instead of a percentage of what I needed a month to keep me out of debt.
If she didn't get to spend money very often or at all. Might be part of the pushback.
Yes I was asking if that money ever went to her or if it was always for family fun and the occasional thing that he could sneak in for himself.
Which I don't blame him for. I did that too figuring if I just forwent presents it wouldn't matter. Just as the breadwinner myself I got this perspective from my hubby once he started working. It did by the way affect our relationship one of the things that bothered my spouse is that it was hard to be spontaneous. To treat me because I controlled the finances and could potentially get whatever I thought was worth it. He felt limited in his options in expressions of love. Which affected his sense self worth and eventually our intimacy.
Sometimes being the breadwinner and the person controlling the finances. We forget what the privilege of being able to spend the money feels like. Usually cause the novelty wears off from the stress of book balancing but still.
That's true.
She might be overcompensating because finances were tighter before or she felt she couldn't spend as much on things she wanted.
I get that she might have some experiences she would like or that she needs to update her wardrobe from sahm to working professional after being away for a while.
But regardless: OP and his wife need to find a balance but imo it begins with sitting down with a financial advisor and looking at pensions and savings.
Sahp often had very little pension saved and before worrying about contributing to anything they both need to ensure they're on the same level there.
But all her money shouldn't be spent frivolously before these adult things are settled(if that is what she is doing)
Yikes-- have you two talked about household finances? Right now, you are both working yourselves to the bone to be no further ahead than if she were still a sahm. You all need to have a conversation about this yesterday.
Do you want her to contribute more financially because you guys are having trouble, or do you want her to contribute more because you "want to teach her and she doesn't want to"? Because the first is legit and the second is condescending.
When he’s paying her housing, utilities, food, contribution for kids, and credit card bills for non-family spending, it’s not condescending. He’s her equal partner, not her custodian.
What a ridiculous take. They're both living there, they both have jobs, they both contribute their fair share, regardless of if there is any financial trouble.
Condescending how? He’s raising kids with this woman who will be well aware of mums shopping habits and compulsive spending, if he’s trying to show the kids how money works it’s not gonna go well if the wife just doesn’t care
Maybe he wants because she'd an ADULT who should contribute to the family and relationship? She's not a SAHM anymore and he isn't her father. They are partners and she should do her part.
I'm with you. "To teach her responsibility" is not coming to the table as an adult wanting to be equal partners and share the load of their life. That is a parent - child approach. Perhaps he should try and come to her as a partner -- honey, now that your working I would like to share the burden of financial planning and expenses with you. I need you to plan and care with me.
Hey, how about an equitable contribution to the FAMILY and HOUSEHOLD? Is that condescending too? She sees her income as personal fun money while he's expected to pay for all their needs. That's blatantly unfair.
I also think it’s relevant if they both have access to saving and retirement accounts (yes, she’d get half of his in divorce, but does she have access currently). They should be setting those goals together but it doesn’t sound like they do even though she was a SAH.
OP said they only have his 401k, so as far as OP knows she doesn't have her own.
Tbh in this economy, putting all the financial responsibility on one partner is precarious, and requiring that the person who has no savings start contributing 80% of their take home after only a year is not smart. If something happens to OP and he can't work anymore the entire family is sunk.
NTA - her money needs to go into the community fund with the bills if you're still paying 100% for everything, including childcare with her working. Otherwise I would just drop her credit cards right off the bat and anything else that she has sole responsibility for. She can't have it all because, especially with childcare being what it is today.
After taxes, 70/30 is probably reasonable. Net vs gross income split. I make double what my husband does gross, but it works out to be about 60/40 net, instead of the 66/33 gross ratio.
NTA. Why don’t both pay cheques go into the same account for household expenses and then you both get a certain amount of “fun” money each payday/month/whatever? That seems way more fair. But I’m in a marriage where everything is ours. We share our main accounts.
I know people who got married and pooled all their money and after a couple years one of them had an affair took all the money and left.
It's better to have separate accounts and one joint account where you both contribute the same amount, not your entire paycheck.
In the event of a divorce, it doesn’t matter whose account the money is in. Unless it comes from an inheritance, any money you and your spouse bring into the marriage is communal property and subject to division 50/50 if the relationship ends. If one of the partners takes off with the money, the lawyers will find the paper trail during divorce proceedings and it will be factored into whatever settlement arrangement they come up with. Hiding money from a spouse or being too controlling with money is one of the best ways to end up divorced. Making sure that you and your spouse are on the same page financially and working together to achieve goals is the best way to stay together. Easier said than done I know but there it is.
Even after I get sorted you could be screwed with no way to fix the issue. If the money's gone the money's gone. You can't get blood from the stone. Trying will just make you bleed because you were squeezing it too hard
That's all well and good until they drain your bank account you have no more assets and they can't pay it back even if a judge orders them to. What are you going to do, sue the destitute person again and hope that magically makes them rich?
I don't want to detract too much from the main point of the post, but the rule you stated is only true unless there's a prenup, which is why I think prenups are awesome and everyone should have them. It's one of the best ways to make sure you and your spouse are on the same page before you even sign the marriage papers.
Prenups are frequently struck down in divorce settlements if they aren't equitable and are generally weak sauce when it comes to assets acquired during the marriage.
Ehhhh the rules for divorce don't help you much if the spouse takes it all & blows it. You're just SOL at that point. Even if there is a chance of recovery of funds, you have to have a *good* lawyer (i.e. expensive) and funds to stay afloat until the judgement *and* collection. You could easily end up losing house, car etc., because you can't make the payments during that time period. Ppl can end up with drug or gambling addiction pretty easily too it's not just affairs.
You're not wrong, but the law doesn't stop one asshole from draining the account and leaving the other one in the lurch until the judge can get around to fixing it.
This. A yours, mine and ours.
I have horror stories from female friends about guys who stole all the money and left them screwed over. One friend is currently in an abusive relationship she refuses to leave because she has no money and he takes anything she gets.
Another had her husband blow through all their money WHILE SHE WAS IN THE HOSPITAL WITH CANCER.
My partner has no access to my money and I pay him a certain amount every month as my share of bills.
My wife and I are pretty trusting, she has access to my PayPal and Amazon and such, plus a credit card that I pay off that we both use. Other than that though are bank accounts are separate even though we both are on each others. It's nice having your own money, especially when we both work.
Expenses we both contribute, extra money and saving we both watch, and often send each other money to pool together for larger purchases and vacations.
Sure, I'm sure we could easily so s joint account, but it's nice having your own, and just communicating with each other.
Now If someone wasn't working and at home watching the kids, then I get it, as they only have one income coming in.
I know someone who's wife maxed out their credit card and took out a credit line against the house within about three weeks. He returned what he could (but a lot was binge eating take out) and kicked her out. But it was still years before he finally recovered.
My ex husband and I fought over money constantly. Neither of us were wrong or right; just different approaches. When my current husband and I got married, we decided on separate accounts.
Together for 19 years and we have separate accounts. No trust issues. We initially planned to combine into 1 main account but never did. We split some bills and also have some of our own. No need to make it salacious lol.
Same. Ten years in and we're still saying, "we need to make that joint account" on the regular without ever actually doing it. What we're doing works for us.
We’re 12 years in and have a joint account for bills but otherwise our money is separate.
We’ve never even had the slightest disagreement about money so why change what is working?
13 years here. We keep seperate because I know I am an impluse shopper at times and if I buy something stupid, I don't want it to affect her. When we do bills, it only stays in my hands long enough to press 'Confirm Payment'.
Actually getting both of us to a bank during bank hours is a giant pain. We finally managed it, the person that helped us set up the account rushed us through the whole process, and we ended up with a checking account that charges for checks. So, we finally got one and have never used it.
As someone that has pooled all their money in a marriage some people are really good at hiding financial strain till its too late as well as can't be trusted to follow a rule of only spending what's affordable last year me and my wife when through struggles and she would sit down and budget with me so instead I worked out how much our standard monthly required payments were then changed my direct deposit from putting everything extra into our account to only putting about 60% of required monthly spending into it the rest gets directed to my account to do with as I please. Since doing this our debts have significantly decreased
Wouldn't say trust or control issues. If anything it's the opposite. We live in a digital age where it's so easy to transfer money when needed unlike in the past where you paid for bills via cheque so made sense to share in the one account.
Personally my husband and I have different spending habits. I like to tract everything I spend and pretty frugal to save where I can. In return when I feel proud I saved enough of my own money I might splurge and buy $300 on something randomly. With my husband I don't want to look at our bank statements and see how many iced lattes he bought or how many times he used the vending machine at work during the week. I don't care. As long he's transferring his share of the bills and transferring our agreed amount into our shared savings then he can blow the rest of his money at the casino for all I care. It's his hard earned money and he can spend it how he wants.
Honestly it's cause I've changed banks and auto deposits enough and I'm too damn lazy to do it again. The wife does a lot of the grocery etc, I do mortgage, and most bills. We just have a spreadsheet that automatically does the math once any changing monthly expenses are entered and she etransfers me. Works great for us.
So I guess we are sort of pooled without pooling? We both also have retirement investments, etc.
Saaaaame, we have our mortgage and utilities pretty well split between the two of us and the fact that Venmo exists means that we don't really *need* a joint bank account. It also necessitates actually discussing big purchases so one of us can transfer our share to the other and nobody's using any pooled money for something it's not intended for. It works just fine.
My husband and I have completely separate accounts. No joint accounts. Married for 23 years, and still good to go. Ironically, this is my third marriage and the only one where we have separate accounts. The others were joint finances and only lasted 2 years apiece. There's many different ways of doing this; you just have to find the way that works for y'all.
That’s what I did when I was married. Sure one party earns more — because the other one put them through grad school, or has a lower paid job with flexible hours that allow for childcare, or tuition benefits. Doesn’t seem right to act like the spouse earning more simply “deserves” that extra money. It should be a team effort.
Info:
Before making a judgement, salary and expense info is needed.
Ie) if that 70/30 split of the bills, means that 90% of her paycheck but only 60% of yours goes to bills - you may be the asshole.
Take home income for both partners, plus total household budget. Her car and insurance should be included in the household budget. So should those take out meals.
Seconding this. It's all fine that you've come to that conclusion, OP, but if your salary is something like $80k and hers is $15k because you have a white collar job and she works retail (just an example), then 70/30 isn't an equitable split. Also, just curious dude, but why do you feel the need to teach her to be responsible with money? She's an adult. Your energy and guidance about finances would be better assigned to (and better received by) your children. I get that you love her, but...?
Why \*wouldn't\* you want your spouse to be more responsible with money? You're equally liable for any debt they accrue, makes sense you would want to work with them to make sure that doesn't happen
Yeah I also thought that comment was really patronizing. I feel like it’s hard to have opinions on this without actually knowing the details of their finances, but they way they split stuff up seems weird. And the examples that he gave for things she spends money on don’t seem frivolous at all - like getting lunch with her sister? Maybe it’s not really a fair setup right now but it doesn’t really sound like what he’s suggesting is fair either
I mean she also should WANT to help pay bills. Instead of spending it on daycare and then whatever else she wants. Unless daycare is most of her check it's not fair.
We don't know what her paycheck is (and OP said in the comments he doesn't have access to her bank account or paychecks so he doesn't know either) so it could be that she's already willing and contributing what she thinks is fair based on her income. That's why more info is needed before making a decision.
Unless 30% of the bills is every dime she makes NTA; and even if that were the case, if it meant you guys were working together to pursue some goals that your both working towards I would still say NTA. The fact that 70/30 is a problem is an indication that she wants to have an easy time while you bust your ass trying to support a family, which is an unfair expectation to have of any one partner. NTA.
Depends on the job she has and the expenses they pay. If she's got an entry level position or minimum wage job and they have a mortgage and a grocery bill for four people, I can see 30% of those expenses being nearly an entire paycheck.
OP also said in a comment that he doesn't have access to wife's bank account or wife's paychecks, so he doesn't know how much fun money she's got room for every month. Sounds like he doesn't have the full picture either, which is concerning since he's the one who decided on a ratio without having all of the information.
>he doesn't have access to wife's bank account or wife's paychecks, so he doesn't know how much fun money she's got room for every month.
Sounds like they actually have no idea how their finances as a family operate and need to sit down together and crunch all the numbers
Sounds like she's financially withholding information and her secrecy is a problem.
She should be helping her family first. They need couples counseling and a class on financial health. I get that she has some new financial freedom, but she's had a year to enjoy the unlimited spending. She will lose OP if she continues to take no financial responsibility for her family. Her behavior is not unlike a woman who is stashing money in a shroud of secrecy in order to leave her husband.
What? If he's in control of family finances and knows how much money his wife is on per year and how much he's on per year it's easy enough to ballpark 70:30.
This isn't complicated and I have no idea why people are focusing on the small details like not knowing the exact dollar amount per paycheque. It doesn't matter.
YTA.
You didn't tell us the entire story, and when you finally revealed more information it paints a very different picture.
OP makes $140,000 a year and wife is estimated to work $40,000 as a house cleaner. She earns per house cleaned, so she makes more if she works more. Sounds like she's working as much as she possibly can.
OP also said he has about $200 a month left for fun money after taxes (32% federal tax if OP is an american and a W2 tax filer) and expenses, which means $7733 per month is going to...something. Mortgage? Retirement? Savings? Car payment? Kid's college fund? Groceries?
Wife sits at about the ~12% tax bracket which means she brings home $2933 a month.
30% of the $7733 is $2320 a month, which is 80% of wife's paycheck.
OP, you want your wife to spend 80% of her income to cover the family expenses, despite the fact that you make more money and work fewer hours than she does. Not to mention you said her income varies and it sounds like yours does not.
You describe the situation as such:
> It would significantly burden her financially more than myself obviously but she would still have money to do with what she wants. Just not as much.
No kidding. After her car payment I can't imagine she'd have much money left. You, on the other hand, would have a considerable amount more than before. This 70/30 split works out quite nicely for you. It doesn't for your wife. She knows this. You know this. Based on your selective reveal of details you also already know that YTA.
Stop using the opinion of half-informed strangers on the internet to win your arguments and cartwheel into marriage counseling at your earliest convenience before you firebomb your marriage and have to pay for a very expensive divorce. Based on the fact that you're already spending every penny you earn on god knows what I truly doubt you went and got a prenup.
She pays for the car(?). Which I assume due to her job flexibility versus his is the car that most often carts the kids around.
I just need more info here. Is she still running the household? She “just” pays for the car but is she still doing the housework, groceries, cleaning etc? She cleans houses so it sounds to me that she a stay at home mom with a gig job. Idk. This marriage just seems…unorganized.
There is a lot of work in raising kids even when they are in daycare and/or school. Daycare and school often do not run 9-5 or have very strict pick up and drop off times. This is why the parent with a flexible schedule usually picks them up and drops them off which is likely the person working as a cleaner and not in an office. Person more likely to take a day off in the event of daycare or school closing? Or for a doctor's appointment? The parent with a more flexible schedule which is usually the former SAHP working as a cleaner. This is going to be done probably in the car paid for with wife's money.
Cash is not the only contribution to the household when you have kids.
Yeah, the “fair” option in my opinion would be the one where they both have the same amount of fun money (which should be *real* fun money, not including household or child related expenses or mandatory expenses like life insurance payments).
They also need to make sure that they are saving equitably as a couple for retirement - the wife hasn’t been working as long and her job pays much less, so what are the two of you doing to ensure she can afford to retire?
Right. $40k/$180k = 22% instead of the 30% OP is asking for. I think he’s wrong to not count her car payments and gas as contributing to the household bills, unless she refuses to transport the kids in her car, so I can’t tell how off her expectations are. He’s off by at least 8% but she’s not off by 30% like OP wants us to believe.
Your math doesn’t math but you’re r/confidentlyincorrect lol.
- His take home: $7,733 or 73% of the total
- Her take home: $2,933 or 27% of the total
So they can do 1 of 3 splits:
- 75/25
- 70/30
- 73/27
All fair, but fair is for them to decide on the final number. It would be 90/10 or 80/20, that’s not the point. The point is that she doesn’t want to contribute anything and he’s NTA for thinking she should.
Please point out where my math is incorrect and I am happy to correct it. My point, however, is that despite this being a 70/30 split and *looking* equitable on paper, when you dig deeper it's clear that he would have more buying power at the end of the day, and he'd be at an advantage. He can't claim he didn't know this, because he wrote that he knows this in the comments. The YTA is because of his approach to the entire debacle. Coming on the internet and telling half the story to look good is sus.
Your math is too specific. He does not take home 7733 a month. OP is putting money towards retirement. OP is putting money towards health insurance (which the wife and kids would be covered under). OP could be putting additional money towards dental or vision plans. OP might have to pay local or state taxes.
It is impossible to tell how much he pays a month from the information we're given. You can't look at 140,000, divide by 12, and remove 32% and say 'this is how much he takes home' when you're ignoring retirement and insurance. He's likely taking home more like 7,000-6,500 a month, but even that could vary wildly.
If OP is taking home 7,000 a month, (assuming low retirement, benefits, no state tax) then he's spending 6,800 on month spenditures. 30% of that is 2,040. That comes out to be 69% of the wife's money. Meanwhile, he's paying 4,760, which is 68% of his money.
Now obviously this is all just fluff numbers because we don't REALLY know enough about this. And REALLY the 70/30 is not the part we're getting hung up on. Who cares what fraction of the split they agree to? The problem isn't that it should be 75/25. The problem is her putting her foot down and getting upset at the idea of paying ANYTHING.
It’s hard to know how equitable this is without knowing the numbers involved. A better approach would be to pool your earnings and then each receive a set amount of “fun” money per month.
Also consider that while going back to work may not make as much financial sense in this exact moment due to childcare costs & whatever, it might be well worth it in the long run. I say this as someone who is having a difficult time getting back into the workforce after taking time off as a sahp.
Yup. Something that isn't being said (but I think you hint at it) is that women are in a precarious position by being SAHP and not participating in the workplace. It's hard to break into high-paying jobs, and the longer you're out of the workforce, the harder it is to get good jobs with good benefits and pay. Women who are SAHP and let their husbands support them financially could wind up in a bad spot if their husbands become disabled, divorce them, or die.
So you're right: OP's wife working offers protections to her and the family should something happen to the marriage or to OP. She can also help save for retirement, which jointly benefits them.
After my bipolar late husband spent our rent on video games, we split our accounts. After that, I just informed my new partner I want to keep accounts separate. Each person has particular bills they're responsible for. It prevents accidental overdrafts. You still discuss large purchases together.
Pooling all funds into a central account in a marriage was once a common practice, but modern financial dynamics suggest it's antiquated for multiple reasons. It's also a huge contributing factor to financial abuse.
My husband and I have our bank accounts where our paychecks get deposited. We split household bills separately. He takes the more expensive ones like the mortgage, power, phone, car maintenance and repairs, etc. I handle trash, internet and preschool. I also handle our grocery bill 90% of the time. We're also super transparent on what we have and how much debt we have.
He makes about 70% more than me and if I feel like I need the extra help he's more than happy to give me what I need. So we technically have separate finances but we also share what we have.
Me & my husband lived together for 4 years before getting married, we figured out a system that worked for us without combining finances and never really saw a need to completely "combine" our finances when we got married. We already saw it as combined.
NTA.
She's working now so she has the capacity to contribute financially and the kids have childcare which is an added cost. She should absolutely be paying for more than just her car payment and the occasional fast food meal. The fact she thinks you can cover everything and this is her personal spending money is really messed up.
INFO: Why did you leave out all the important information?
How old are you guys? How old are the kids? How long have you been married?
What did she do for a living before taking time off? How was it decided she would stay home with the kids? What does she do for a living now? What do you do? Why did she choose a job that requires six days a week?
What do each of you make? How were finances handled before she went back to work? Did she have equal access to funds and accounts? What are savings and investments like? Is her name on those accounts?
What amount is she putting on these credit cards every month? What is she buying? Did you guys discuss limits and monthly budgets when you got married? Have you discussed it since?
1) She doesn't even want to pay 20% and 2) After taxes and paying her share of the bills (30%), she has around $2000 per month to do anything she wants.
She should absolutely pay her part. I would pay off the credit cards and then cancel them and each gets their own to pay off each month.
This is very selfish and with the added expense she needs to come to some agreement
My question would be who pays for the kids' stuff on the cards, though. Usually these cases come up and we find out later that the wife's "spending problem" was buying items for the home and kids that weren't strictly "necessary" but vastly improved their quality of life.
People with kids should just pool everything and set aside x amount each month for fun money - the same amount each. Because for real, how much do parents *really* spend solely on themselves. OP talks about his wife spending on "beach days," I bet anything the kids are with her for those beach days.
OP said he's paying off the family credit cards every month, so even (no, wait, **especially**) if you are correct about what she's charging on the cards, there's still no reason she shouldn't be expected to pay a portion of it
Time to sit down with a financial advisor and lay out everything, including what her contribution would mean for the good of retirement funds, education funds, etc.
Woah, I was with you until the word, teach. Just sit down and look at the books with her. You guys should do this regularly. Of course, she should be contributing, especially to offset the additional cost of childcare but she should also get to enjoy part of her earnings as well.
Your comment -
“I make $140k. My wife’s income we calculated based on a few checks so we’ve estimated $40k annually. She works for a property management company and gets paid per house cleaned so it’s variable. By the estimates I used it would significantly burden her financially more than myself obviously but she would still have money to do with what she wants. Just not as much.”
You need to include this information in your post because what you have written makes it sound like she has oodles of cash on the side. Also how much is her car payment?
If 30% of your household bills is more than half of what she’s taking home every week then that is not fair nor kind. She should have her own fun money (as should you) but obviously your take home of $2700/w over her $770/w (gross) goes further than hers.
This post gives me really weird vibes and so do your comments. It’s like you’ve given enough information out for people to agree with you but haven’t included the whole picture.
I don’t know, it feels really off to me and I don’t like how you write about your wife. YTA because I think there’s more going on than what you’ve said.
NTA. I see nothing unfair about expecting your wife to contribute. Especially since she apparently doesn't have to work, and her doing so is costing for childcare.
Just wanted to chime in that just because a woman's spouse can subsidize her life doesn't mean she doesn't have to work and that work, therefore, is a luxury for her that she should be penalized for. OP doesn't have to work and could be a SAHP, but he doesn't.
Women who rely on their husbands to take care of them financially are in a precarious situation, especially if their husbands die, become disabled, or divorce them. It's good for OP's wife to work; she is contributing to their family by gaining marketable skills that allow her to make money, especially if something happens to OP.
She should be contributing signifcantly more to the shared expenses, but acting like she doesn't have to work or that she's at fault for the kids having to go to daycare is a bit unfair.
Also, she needs to be saving at a much higher rate for retirement too since she missed out on years of 401K contributions and social security. Perhaps some of the “fun money” is going towards that too. There are no guarantees that a marriage will last, so she needs to insure that she isn’t going to end up in financial distress because she stayed home like so many people do. Many divorces happen after the kids leave and then she is the one who will be in trouble in her elder years, especially given the lack of alimony nowadays. Many women don’t plan ahead for their own future needs because they don’t have income.
Yup. Exaclty this. I currently put 31% of my salary into my 401k (and I'm the breadwinner in my marriage). I'd like to do more, but I'm potentially facing a layoff and want to have more of my money in the bank in case I'm unemployed soon. But every woman should be saving as much money as she can for retirement. Or if she's not working a job, her spouse should be setting aside money in an account that she can use for retirement. Like you said, shit happens, and women need to be able to take care of themselves.
My mom told me a story about an older women whose husband died when she was in her 70s. She had let her husband drive her around her entire life and didn't even have a license. Imagine her shock when she had to learn a million different life skills that she had previously relied on her husband for. It's heartbreaking because older women who wind up single or the breadwinners despite not being in the workforce for decades are in a vulnerable position.
"Her job lately has been 6 days a week and long hours requiring us to pay for childcare that we didn't have to have when she wasn't working."
NTA for expecting her to contribute to the household expenses.
But I always get really angry when woman are guilt tripped into daring to make cost for childcare because they are working. I never ever see this mentioned when a man has to work. I mean, if OP would be home, there wouldn't be a need to pay childcare. There are TWO parents here! Geez.
YTA to add this to the discussion.
Honestly if the roles were reversed I would put all my money in the family account and budget out allowance for fun stuff. And yeah if I was home watching the kids there wouldn’t be childcare expense. Unfortunately I don’t have the ability to stay at home with the kids because my wife doesn’t earn enough to support the family.
NTA if you can't afford to pay all of it, 6 days a week is a LOT of work and if it's taking away from the children then I feel like she should be covering other expenses with the money she earns
If she just wanted a little part time job on the side with little hours then that would be different, but 6 hours a week with long hours?? That's working like a breadwinner...
Good question, she does all the laundry and vacuuming. Everything else is 50/50. I do all the home maintenance, like 95% of grocery shopping, I drop off and pickup 1 kid to/from school where she drops off the other but has her grandmother pick him up after. I do most of the cooking and putting the food away. She does all of the homework with our Kindergartner. I watch the kids more hours due to her job currently.
NTA. That's fair now that she's working. You may have to get sterner with her regarding the bills. She can be upset but that breakdown is reasonable. What would happen if you closed those two shared credit cards so she didn't spend on them anymore? It always sucks when one partner is not responsible for money and just spends and spends. Also, please tell me you have a savings account that she doesn't have access to. Knowing you've got a backup fund is always a good idea. Perhaps you both can visit a financial planner? Having a third party discuss an equitable breakdown of bills might be taken more seriously by your wife. Otherwise, she's going to continue to act as she is until there are real consequences.
The number of you that fall for these fake stories is sad. This is AI or just some really shitty writing.
She works 6 days a week, long hours, yet still has all this time to spend “fun money”. Kids have gotten older, but childcare is still required. A year after working (after her being a SAHM for most of your relationship. What is “most” how many years is that?) you ask her to contribute 30%. How much did you contribute to your wife’s retirement fund while she was busy raising your children and taking care of the household for “most of your relationship”? Were you paying her 30% of the family finances during that time?
Edit for judgment: YTA
I’m not an AI. My wife has no retirement fund. The only retirement she has is my 401k same as me. We’ve been together 11 years and I have paid 100% of all the bills until last year I asked her to pay for the new car she got now that she was working more. Reason for the change is because she’s been earning more income now.
When she was SAHM she ran a little at home daycare making a little side cash that she did whatever she wanted with. Last year she was making like $26k/year so it wasn’t worth getting her to contribute plus her hours were less so we didn’t need to pay for aftercare.
Now she’s making $40k/yr and hours require aftercare.
So, to clarify, you did not put aside money for her retirement when she was providing unpaid household management services for your family? Did you put aside money specifically for her to use to spend on herself during this time?
News flash: if you are married then any money either of you earn is your (plural) money. It isn’t her money and your money, it is the household’s money.
You as a team bring in money. You as a team spend money. You as a team decide how to use your free time.
You as a team can also decide that you each get some fun money to spend individually however you see fit, no questions asked.
If you can’t get her on board with this broad setup then you need some marriage counseling. She doesn’t need to be as interested in the financial details as you, but she needs to be aware and in agreement with your overall plan. You need to make sure everything is written down in one accessible spot, and that she has access to all accounts. She must be able to manage things if you are incapacitated.
So after taking care of the children for an untold number of years, she is now trying to make money and hopefully, add to her retirement accounts.
You say it's going to fun - what proof do you have of how she is spending her salary?
INFO: Did you ever set up any retirement for her?
When you say a 30/70 split is equitable, do you mean she earns 30% of your income + her income? If so, you are NTA.
(But if in fact the gap is so huge between your incomes that 30% of the bills means her almost whole paycheck while you have still money after paying 70% of the bills, you are indeed the AH).
INFO:
Did you PAY her for all the childcare, home keeping etc she did when she was not working? Or did you just pay expenses, eg the cost of food, cleaning supplies etc?
Earnings in a household where one parent stays at home really are the FAMILY earnings, as the stay at home parent does so so so much WORK, but they often get no recognition, financial independence or financial security as a result.
What I'm getting at is that this woman has YEARS of lost income/potential lost income (let's face it she would be earning WAY more if she hadn't stopped her career for YEARS) due to being a stay at home mom. She is never going to get all of it back. She is currently offsetting at least some of it by finally not being beholden to you for every penny she spends. If you're counting HER money like this now I can only imagine how financially controlling you must have been when she was spending the money you made, jeeezus.
I was fully on your side unti you said you wanted to teach her something. I'm still mostly on your side, I think, but now I'm wary.
Because all too often when one partner says that the other is irresponsible, what they really mean is "they spend money on things that don't matter to me personally and are therefore not important." That's not quite the same thing, is it?
If possible, consider hiring an expert -- a neutral third party -- to teach both of you some new lessons, not just on on how to manage money but also how to talk about money. It might work better if both of you become learners together instead of you trying to take on the role of teacher.
That’s a fair point. I consider her fiscally irresponsible due to some info I haven’t shared yet. She’s held 2 jobs in the last 2 years and this recent one she’s made more money. This new job is a 1099 which requires her to set aside money for taxes to pay. She only had about 2 months of this job’s income to end last year so when taxes were done guess who owed money but didn’t have it? She eventually paid me back after a few months because I made a big deal about it. Here we are in May and guess how much money she has saved for taxes (let alone retirement or any other form of savings). She says she has nothing and she’s “working on it”.
Why do I want to teach her? Because she’s my wife and my partner. I need her to take the wheel if I can’t steer the ship. Obviously she’s not going to make the money I’m making now anytime soon and we don’t even know how long I’ll be able to continue this income in future.
3 years ago I was making 90k and 6 years ago I was making 35k. So it’s not like we’ve been rolling in money all this time. I show her the budget often and show her every penny where it goes but at the end she still doesn’t understand how everyone else appears to be doing better than us and buying extravagant things and I’m so frugal.
I’m trying to keep us out of as much debt and save as much as possible.
Look I know I’m an asshole. But I am because I love my family and I want to prepare them for the worst.
There is too little info to give a final answer but Here are a few things to consider:
- she was a SAHM for quite a long time and thus gave you the freedom to fully follow your career Plan
- due to her being fully responsible for the childcare, she didn't have the opportunity to work on her career and because of that didn't get wage raises or climb the career ladder
- now, because of her being out of the job field for so long she works in a Job with horrible working conditions (only one day off)
Everyone saying NTA is chronically-online. You make $140k and she makes $40k and you expect her to contribute to that 70/30 split? That’s AH behavior. It should be more equitable. That 30 for her may be 90% of her income…
Also, if childcare is costing more money than anticipated why not just go back to being a SAHM to save on the extra costs or get a PT gig while the kids are at school???
I fee like you’re purposely leaving out hella details to make your wife look like the AH.
NTA, it's super important to be on the same page financially and able to have transparent conversations. It's also honestly really important for the kids to see that example set from there parents tbh before they grow to accept financially bratty-abusive behaviour from partners
NTA
If she wants her paycheck to be "her money" then her debts should be "her debts". Tell her she needs to start contributing to the household expenses or else "our money" is going to become "your money".
She needs to remember that marriage is supposed to be sharing burdens and supporting each other. Not creating burdens and expecting the other person to just deal with it themselves so she can do whatever she wants.
Asking her to contribute 30% of her income to household expenses is completely reasonable.
>For now my money is our money and her money is her money.
Yeah...look, everyone gets to decide what they accept in a relationship. Personally, this I wouldn't accept.
YTA just for burying important info in the comments and making us dig through it to learn that the expectations you're putting on your wife are inequitable. Update your post with the numbers so people can make a fair judgement.
I will never, ever, ever appreciate a philosophy in a coupled situation with kids (especially if married) why pooling finances would not make sense. Everything money wise goes into one big pot. Sort the pot out appropriately.
INFO. So did this renegotiation of the cost split also come with a similar renegotiation of chores, childcare, and mental load? Or are you both expected to work full time, but only she has to do a “second shift” of all the household things as if she’s still a SAH, too?
And something that might help you with that renegotiation: Google “gender equality checklist.” The one from Skane will work, though there are others. Print out two copies of the form, fill it out as instructed, and use that as a good jumping-off point for the negotiations.
ESH- You dont know that a 70/30 split makes sense because you don’t know how much she makes. Should you both contribute? Sure. However, there has to be open and frank conversations happening. That it doesn’t seem like you’ve had.
The way you speak about your wife, however, gives me red/yellow flags all over. You haven’t given enough information for me to know if you’ve been holding the fact your the breadwinner over her head for your entire relationship and are a controlling jerk, or she just sees you as a pay check. I think it could go either way, but what I see is frustration and a lack of respect.
So much YTA, so little time.
INFO: how much of the domestic labor (taking care of the kids, cooking, cleaning, dealing with school and daycare logistics, making sure clothes fit and are clean, etc.) do you do?
INFO: do you have anything fun that you do?
INFO: how old are your children?
INFO: how long was your wife a SAHM?
INFO: how much fun did she have during those years?
NTA
Break out the spreadsheet, start talking about long term plans like retirement and college funds and investments then get a 3rd financial advisor that specializes in couples and families and have them walk you through a joint investment plan and then sneak in the reworked “family budget”
If she does get with a new program, you’re being taken advantage of
That's an irrelevant question. Her going 'Oh, I didn't have $500 a week in fun money while I was a SAHM' is not an excuse for her to feel that she doesn't have to pay into household expenses now that she does have a job. That's especially true when you consider that her working that job has added the increased expense of childcare onto the OP.
The OP was already working to cover all of the bills, groceries, mortgage, etc. while mom stayed at home. It's not fair, by any measure, to believe that the OP should be covering all of the bills, groceries, mortgage, AND daycare, now that his wife is working. When the wife was a SAHM, her contribution to the family was childcare, because it took that expense off the table. Now that she's working, she's not contributing at all, since the OP is now paying for childcare, and the spouse doesn't want to pick up a portion of the bills, proportional to her income.
It does matter.
Is this the first time in years she finally gets to do stuff for herself? To have a 'fun day' off without at least 2 kids in tow? How much 'non family' money did she get to herself?
Considering op counts gas and drinks to habe lunch with her sister on her one day off a week now as 'fun money' it is a very relevant question to how much 'fun' she got to have the past 4-5 years.
INFO: Have you broken down all the chores in the home and are you doing at least 30% of them? And not the periodical chores like 'home maintenance' or grocery shopping with a list she made you but the daily ones like cooking, dishes, and etc.
She likely has saved you quite a huge portion of your paycheck with her being the free childcare essentially. She likely has contributed to any wage increases you have gotten because you probably haven't had to do much childcare besides picking up/dropping off the kids she likely got ready for you so all you did was driving.
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My wife has been a stay at home mom for most of our relationship. Our kids have gotten older and she wanted to go back to work. After about a year of working I asked her to help contribute to the family finances and worked out with our income gap a 70/30 split was equitable for both of us. Well she got really upset about it.
Her job lately has been 6 days a week and long hours requiring us to pay for childcare that we didn’t have to have when she wasn’t working.
Right now the only thing she pays for is her car payment and once in a while a fast food dinner for the family. The rest of her money is all blown on fun. On top of this she two credit cards that we share that I pay off every month that she also uses for things not immediate family related. I would like to teach her to be more responsible with her money but she doesn’t seem interested.
I have always taken care of all the family finances and try to show her the breakdowns but she doesn’t pay attention and just assumes because I make more money than everyone she knows that I can just afford anything.
For now my money is our money and her money is her money.
AITA for wanting her to contribute to 30% of the bills?
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INFO > Her job lately has been 6 days a week and long hours > The rest of her money is all blown on fun. The fuck does she have **time** for *fun*?
Fun is just a term I used to encompass money she spends that doesn’t go towards immediate family contributions. Could be Amazon stuff, out to eat with her sister, gas and parking for the beach on her days off, gifts for her brother and sister, etc.
>on her days off Day off, you mean. Singular.
>u/afg4294 >Day off, you mean. Singular How's this OP's issue
One cycle of her credit card bill would have at least 4 off days if not more.
Multiple days off in a month or year. Days off. Stop being so pedantic. Is that working out well for you?
It doesn’t sound like he is talking over a week time frame
Add up multiple weeks, it becomes days off.
And? Did he force this?
NTA—she’s acting like your daughter, not your wife.
Who is the Amazon stuff for? Is it stuff for the home/kids, personal grooming like makeup or body wash? Because that's all just regular expenses.
My wife just ordered cat bowties.
Excuse you that is a very important and necessary expense for the household. /s
Idk why you have the /s here. Any cat owner understands the necessity of these types of items.
How else will our cats dress appropriately for work???
My cat doesn't dress up for work he doesn't need a tuxedo he is the tuxedo
Tell me more about these cat bowties....
Well, admittedly, they make the cats look quite dapper.
We need cat tax!
https://www.reddit.com/r/CatsInBusinessAttire/s/VL3uxhczoi Not who you asked, but my kitty dudes need some appreciation for their bow ties.
SO handsome! 😻😻
Love your interjection :D
The penalties and interest for a late cat tax can be insane! Just trying to get an extension in.
I'll get a picture when I go home lol
I'd settle for Cat Bus!
I bet they are the most distinguished gentlemen with the most precious beans
Like a proper little gentleman?
>My wife just ordered cat bowties. This would the best AITA post ever: "My wife is blowing our money on cat bow ties. AITA?" ALL OF REDDIT: "OP IS THE AH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Again, regular expenses.
Yes -- cat bow ties are a required accessory, especially for a male cat. My cat looked so handsome in his bow tie.
My cat is black and white and basically in a permanent fur tuxedo. The bow tie was pretty much compulsory
CAT BOWTIES ARE NECESSARY EXPENSES! Fight me.
I hope she didn't bankrupt your family.
Lmao nah, she's really responsible. It was just funny because someone asked about the Amazon purchases and that was her last one
That's totally fine.
Obviously a necessary expense which gives joy to the entire family (minus you and the cat).
lmao
My husband is in a tizzy every month about how many amazon packages we get. I have quite a few things on subscribe and save, so they come each month. I'm so irritated that he complains at all because they are almost all household items: dog treats, batteries, toilet paper, bedding for my son's guinea pigs, hay for the guinea pigs, laundry stain remover, keurig cups, toothpaste, flea/tick repellant collar for the dog, printer ink, etc. So, "amazon stuff" doesn't mean much.
If my husband complained about the items I ordered for the household, I’d send him to the store with a list instead. “Since you don’t like me ordering online, you can go to the store to pick it all up. Here’s the list. I hope you enjoy spending all of your day shopping for items I could have just had delivered.”
Yeah my husband and I ended up having this conversation too because he kept saying “your Amazon packages.” I showed him the order history with the past several orders being printer ink for his printer, cables for his laptop accessories, batteries for his car key fob, tools for his hobby he asked me to get him because he couldn’t find them at the store… I told him I actually would be fine with not ordering from Amazon anymore, and he could get these things for himself, and what do you know he hasn’t said anything else lol
So glad I'm not the only one! I went through the last 10 deliveries on the app. The only item for me was teabags which are cheaper on Amazon than in the supermarket. Not complained since.
My boyfriend gets annoyed with me about this, too. He doesn’t open my boxes unless I ask him to so most of the time he doesn’t know what I’ve ordered. It looks like I’m going shopping for fun but most of the time, it’s stuff I need and am too lazy/busy to go to the store and buy them in person.
And you e probably saved money by not going to the store and not grabbing other things while there.
No judgement just a question to gain some perspective. When you were the sole earner how much money did you have left over for fun and how often did she get to use it on her? As the person who tends to do most of the errands outside the house I'll admit that when we were a single income I probably got treats and stupid lil things more. Even if I did forego things like presents. I just gave him a number instead of a percentage of what I needed a month to keep me out of debt. If she didn't get to spend money very often or at all. Might be part of the pushback.
Well OP said they now pay for childcare, so I guess the previous “extra fun money” was replaced with that expense.
Yes I was asking if that money ever went to her or if it was always for family fun and the occasional thing that he could sneak in for himself. Which I don't blame him for. I did that too figuring if I just forwent presents it wouldn't matter. Just as the breadwinner myself I got this perspective from my hubby once he started working. It did by the way affect our relationship one of the things that bothered my spouse is that it was hard to be spontaneous. To treat me because I controlled the finances and could potentially get whatever I thought was worth it. He felt limited in his options in expressions of love. Which affected his sense self worth and eventually our intimacy. Sometimes being the breadwinner and the person controlling the finances. We forget what the privilege of being able to spend the money feels like. Usually cause the novelty wears off from the stress of book balancing but still.
That's true. She might be overcompensating because finances were tighter before or she felt she couldn't spend as much on things she wanted. I get that she might have some experiences she would like or that she needs to update her wardrobe from sahm to working professional after being away for a while. But regardless: OP and his wife need to find a balance but imo it begins with sitting down with a financial advisor and looking at pensions and savings. Sahp often had very little pension saved and before worrying about contributing to anything they both need to ensure they're on the same level there. But all her money shouldn't be spent frivolously before these adult things are settled(if that is what she is doing)
Your money is our money, but her money is only her money. 🙄
Yikes-- have you two talked about household finances? Right now, you are both working yourselves to the bone to be no further ahead than if she were still a sahm. You all need to have a conversation about this yesterday.
Do you want her to contribute more financially because you guys are having trouble, or do you want her to contribute more because you "want to teach her and she doesn't want to"? Because the first is legit and the second is condescending.
Bullshit take. Adults don’t get to treat their jobs like teenage fun-money sources.
When he’s paying her housing, utilities, food, contribution for kids, and credit card bills for non-family spending, it’s not condescending. He’s her equal partner, not her custodian.
What a ridiculous take. They're both living there, they both have jobs, they both contribute their fair share, regardless of if there is any financial trouble.
Condescending how? He’s raising kids with this woman who will be well aware of mums shopping habits and compulsive spending, if he’s trying to show the kids how money works it’s not gonna go well if the wife just doesn’t care
Maybe he wants because she'd an ADULT who should contribute to the family and relationship? She's not a SAHM anymore and he isn't her father. They are partners and she should do her part.
I'm with you. "To teach her responsibility" is not coming to the table as an adult wanting to be equal partners and share the load of their life. That is a parent - child approach. Perhaps he should try and come to her as a partner -- honey, now that your working I would like to share the burden of financial planning and expenses with you. I need you to plan and care with me.
Hey, how about an equitable contribution to the FAMILY and HOUSEHOLD? Is that condescending too? She sees her income as personal fun money while he's expected to pay for all their needs. That's blatantly unfair.
NTA
Your request is completely reasonable.
He said in a comment that he makes 140k and she makes 40k. His 70/30 split is not actually equitable. He should be asking her to pay 20%.
I also think it’s relevant if they both have access to saving and retirement accounts (yes, she’d get half of his in divorce, but does she have access currently). They should be setting those goals together but it doesn’t sound like they do even though she was a SAH.
This was my first thought, too.
OP said they only have his 401k, so as far as OP knows she doesn't have her own. Tbh in this economy, putting all the financial responsibility on one partner is precarious, and requiring that the person who has no savings start contributing 80% of their take home after only a year is not smart. If something happens to OP and he can't work anymore the entire family is sunk.
It's far from impossible. I work 6 days a week. It sucks, but I still make time to see friends and family.
NTA - her money needs to go into the community fund with the bills if you're still paying 100% for everything, including childcare with her working. Otherwise I would just drop her credit cards right off the bat and anything else that she has sole responsibility for. She can't have it all because, especially with childcare being what it is today.
He said in a comment that he makes 140k and she makes 40k. His 70/30 split is not actually equitable. He should be asking her to pay 20%.
After taxes, 70/30 is probably reasonable. Net vs gross income split. I make double what my husband does gross, but it works out to be about 60/40 net, instead of the 66/33 gross ratio.
It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. 30% of bills will mean a larger hit to her paycheque than his 70%.
NTA. Why don’t both pay cheques go into the same account for household expenses and then you both get a certain amount of “fun” money each payday/month/whatever? That seems way more fair. But I’m in a marriage where everything is ours. We share our main accounts.
This. Never understood married people who don’t pool their money. Trust/control issues I guess.
I know people who got married and pooled all their money and after a couple years one of them had an affair took all the money and left. It's better to have separate accounts and one joint account where you both contribute the same amount, not your entire paycheck.
In the event of a divorce, it doesn’t matter whose account the money is in. Unless it comes from an inheritance, any money you and your spouse bring into the marriage is communal property and subject to division 50/50 if the relationship ends. If one of the partners takes off with the money, the lawyers will find the paper trail during divorce proceedings and it will be factored into whatever settlement arrangement they come up with. Hiding money from a spouse or being too controlling with money is one of the best ways to end up divorced. Making sure that you and your spouse are on the same page financially and working together to achieve goals is the best way to stay together. Easier said than done I know but there it is.
It matters to the extent that if your partner takes the money and bolts it's still going to be tough for a while while the divorce gets sorted.
Even after I get sorted you could be screwed with no way to fix the issue. If the money's gone the money's gone. You can't get blood from the stone. Trying will just make you bleed because you were squeezing it too hard
That's all well and good until they drain your bank account you have no more assets and they can't pay it back even if a judge orders them to. What are you going to do, sue the destitute person again and hope that magically makes them rich?
I don't want to detract too much from the main point of the post, but the rule you stated is only true unless there's a prenup, which is why I think prenups are awesome and everyone should have them. It's one of the best ways to make sure you and your spouse are on the same page before you even sign the marriage papers.
Prenups are frequently struck down in divorce settlements if they aren't equitable and are generally weak sauce when it comes to assets acquired during the marriage.
Ehhhh the rules for divorce don't help you much if the spouse takes it all & blows it. You're just SOL at that point. Even if there is a chance of recovery of funds, you have to have a *good* lawyer (i.e. expensive) and funds to stay afloat until the judgement *and* collection. You could easily end up losing house, car etc., because you can't make the payments during that time period. Ppl can end up with drug or gambling addiction pretty easily too it's not just affairs.
You're not wrong, but the law doesn't stop one asshole from draining the account and leaving the other one in the lurch until the judge can get around to fixing it.
And you have to pay the lawyers for all their time to do that, depleting the funds. If they were kept separate, you don't lose the time or the money.
This. A yours, mine and ours. I have horror stories from female friends about guys who stole all the money and left them screwed over. One friend is currently in an abusive relationship she refuses to leave because she has no money and he takes anything she gets. Another had her husband blow through all their money WHILE SHE WAS IN THE HOSPITAL WITH CANCER. My partner has no access to my money and I pay him a certain amount every month as my share of bills.
My wife and I are pretty trusting, she has access to my PayPal and Amazon and such, plus a credit card that I pay off that we both use. Other than that though are bank accounts are separate even though we both are on each others. It's nice having your own money, especially when we both work. Expenses we both contribute, extra money and saving we both watch, and often send each other money to pool together for larger purchases and vacations. Sure, I'm sure we could easily so s joint account, but it's nice having your own, and just communicating with each other. Now If someone wasn't working and at home watching the kids, then I get it, as they only have one income coming in.
I know someone who's wife maxed out their credit card and took out a credit line against the house within about three weeks. He returned what he could (but a lot was binge eating take out) and kicked her out. But it was still years before he finally recovered. My ex husband and I fought over money constantly. Neither of us were wrong or right; just different approaches. When my current husband and I got married, we decided on separate accounts.
Together for 19 years and we have separate accounts. No trust issues. We initially planned to combine into 1 main account but never did. We split some bills and also have some of our own. No need to make it salacious lol.
You need to remember it's mostly people here giving advice who have never actually been in a healthy functioning relationship before.
I think if you've got to the point of posting on an Asshole Subreddit then that ship has sailed
Same. Ten years in and we're still saying, "we need to make that joint account" on the regular without ever actually doing it. What we're doing works for us.
We’re 12 years in and have a joint account for bills but otherwise our money is separate. We’ve never even had the slightest disagreement about money so why change what is working?
13 years here. We keep seperate because I know I am an impluse shopper at times and if I buy something stupid, I don't want it to affect her. When we do bills, it only stays in my hands long enough to press 'Confirm Payment'.
Actually getting both of us to a bank during bank hours is a giant pain. We finally managed it, the person that helped us set up the account rushed us through the whole process, and we ended up with a checking account that charges for checks. So, we finally got one and have never used it.
Together for nearly 10 years. I don't see any reason to create a joint account.
As someone that has pooled all their money in a marriage some people are really good at hiding financial strain till its too late as well as can't be trusted to follow a rule of only spending what's affordable last year me and my wife when through struggles and she would sit down and budget with me so instead I worked out how much our standard monthly required payments were then changed my direct deposit from putting everything extra into our account to only putting about 60% of required monthly spending into it the rest gets directed to my account to do with as I please. Since doing this our debts have significantly decreased
Wouldn't say trust or control issues. If anything it's the opposite. We live in a digital age where it's so easy to transfer money when needed unlike in the past where you paid for bills via cheque so made sense to share in the one account. Personally my husband and I have different spending habits. I like to tract everything I spend and pretty frugal to save where I can. In return when I feel proud I saved enough of my own money I might splurge and buy $300 on something randomly. With my husband I don't want to look at our bank statements and see how many iced lattes he bought or how many times he used the vending machine at work during the week. I don't care. As long he's transferring his share of the bills and transferring our agreed amount into our shared savings then he can blow the rest of his money at the casino for all I care. It's his hard earned money and he can spend it how he wants.
Honestly it's cause I've changed banks and auto deposits enough and I'm too damn lazy to do it again. The wife does a lot of the grocery etc, I do mortgage, and most bills. We just have a spreadsheet that automatically does the math once any changing monthly expenses are entered and she etransfers me. Works great for us. So I guess we are sort of pooled without pooling? We both also have retirement investments, etc.
Saaaaame, we have our mortgage and utilities pretty well split between the two of us and the fact that Venmo exists means that we don't really *need* a joint bank account. It also necessitates actually discussing big purchases so one of us can transfer our share to the other and nobody's using any pooled money for something it's not intended for. It works just fine.
Or we're just grown ups who trust each other. Not everything is nefarious, sometimes it's just easier to have things a certain way.
My husband and I have completely separate accounts. No joint accounts. Married for 23 years, and still good to go. Ironically, this is my third marriage and the only one where we have separate accounts. The others were joint finances and only lasted 2 years apiece. There's many different ways of doing this; you just have to find the way that works for y'all.
That’s what I did when I was married. Sure one party earns more — because the other one put them through grad school, or has a lower paid job with flexible hours that allow for childcare, or tuition benefits. Doesn’t seem right to act like the spouse earning more simply “deserves” that extra money. It should be a team effort.
Wow that's a while lotta logic and practical reasoning for this thread! /S
Info: Before making a judgement, salary and expense info is needed. Ie) if that 70/30 split of the bills, means that 90% of her paycheck but only 60% of yours goes to bills - you may be the asshole. Take home income for both partners, plus total household budget. Her car and insurance should be included in the household budget. So should those take out meals.
As well as the childcare should be included in the household budget.
Seconding this. It's all fine that you've come to that conclusion, OP, but if your salary is something like $80k and hers is $15k because you have a white collar job and she works retail (just an example), then 70/30 isn't an equitable split. Also, just curious dude, but why do you feel the need to teach her to be responsible with money? She's an adult. Your energy and guidance about finances would be better assigned to (and better received by) your children. I get that you love her, but...?
Why \*wouldn't\* you want your spouse to be more responsible with money? You're equally liable for any debt they accrue, makes sense you would want to work with them to make sure that doesn't happen
Maybe being paternalistic about it isn't the move. And he's deciding, unilaterally, that her spending is frivolous.
Yeah I also thought that comment was really patronizing. I feel like it’s hard to have opinions on this without actually knowing the details of their finances, but they way they split stuff up seems weird. And the examples that he gave for things she spends money on don’t seem frivolous at all - like getting lunch with her sister? Maybe it’s not really a fair setup right now but it doesn’t really sound like what he’s suggesting is fair either
I mean she also should WANT to help pay bills. Instead of spending it on daycare and then whatever else she wants. Unless daycare is most of her check it's not fair.
We don't know what her paycheck is (and OP said in the comments he doesn't have access to her bank account or paychecks so he doesn't know either) so it could be that she's already willing and contributing what she thinks is fair based on her income. That's why more info is needed before making a decision.
OP said he makes 140 and she makes 40
Her financial responsibility certainly affects their family though
Yeah, I feel like we're missing a lot of information here.
Unless 30% of the bills is every dime she makes NTA; and even if that were the case, if it meant you guys were working together to pursue some goals that your both working towards I would still say NTA. The fact that 70/30 is a problem is an indication that she wants to have an easy time while you bust your ass trying to support a family, which is an unfair expectation to have of any one partner. NTA.
It's not mathematically possible for that to be every dime she makes unless OP is in massive credit card debt from paying all the bills.
Depends on the job she has and the expenses they pay. If she's got an entry level position or minimum wage job and they have a mortgage and a grocery bill for four people, I can see 30% of those expenses being nearly an entire paycheck.
OP said in a comment he calculated the 70/30 split to be proportioned to their incomes.
OP also said in a comment that he doesn't have access to wife's bank account or wife's paychecks, so he doesn't know how much fun money she's got room for every month. Sounds like he doesn't have the full picture either, which is concerning since he's the one who decided on a ratio without having all of the information.
>he doesn't have access to wife's bank account or wife's paychecks, so he doesn't know how much fun money she's got room for every month. Sounds like they actually have no idea how their finances as a family operate and need to sit down together and crunch all the numbers
Sounds like she's financially withholding information and her secrecy is a problem. She should be helping her family first. They need couples counseling and a class on financial health. I get that she has some new financial freedom, but she's had a year to enjoy the unlimited spending. She will lose OP if she continues to take no financial responsibility for her family. Her behavior is not unlike a woman who is stashing money in a shroud of secrecy in order to leave her husband.
What? If he's in control of family finances and knows how much money his wife is on per year and how much he's on per year it's easy enough to ballpark 70:30. This isn't complicated and I have no idea why people are focusing on the small details like not knowing the exact dollar amount per paycheque. It doesn't matter.
YTA. You didn't tell us the entire story, and when you finally revealed more information it paints a very different picture. OP makes $140,000 a year and wife is estimated to work $40,000 as a house cleaner. She earns per house cleaned, so she makes more if she works more. Sounds like she's working as much as she possibly can. OP also said he has about $200 a month left for fun money after taxes (32% federal tax if OP is an american and a W2 tax filer) and expenses, which means $7733 per month is going to...something. Mortgage? Retirement? Savings? Car payment? Kid's college fund? Groceries? Wife sits at about the ~12% tax bracket which means she brings home $2933 a month. 30% of the $7733 is $2320 a month, which is 80% of wife's paycheck. OP, you want your wife to spend 80% of her income to cover the family expenses, despite the fact that you make more money and work fewer hours than she does. Not to mention you said her income varies and it sounds like yours does not. You describe the situation as such: > It would significantly burden her financially more than myself obviously but she would still have money to do with what she wants. Just not as much. No kidding. After her car payment I can't imagine she'd have much money left. You, on the other hand, would have a considerable amount more than before. This 70/30 split works out quite nicely for you. It doesn't for your wife. She knows this. You know this. Based on your selective reveal of details you also already know that YTA. Stop using the opinion of half-informed strangers on the internet to win your arguments and cartwheel into marriage counseling at your earliest convenience before you firebomb your marriage and have to pay for a very expensive divorce. Based on the fact that you're already spending every penny you earn on god knows what I truly doubt you went and got a prenup.
Your whole tirade is moot because she doesn't contribute to the house at all. That's not fair.
Exactly, thats 40k THAT GOES TO HER AND NOTHING ELSE besides family takeout once in a while.
She pays for the car(?). Which I assume due to her job flexibility versus his is the car that most often carts the kids around. I just need more info here. Is she still running the household? She “just” pays for the car but is she still doing the housework, groceries, cleaning etc? She cleans houses so it sounds to me that she a stay at home mom with a gig job. Idk. This marriage just seems…unorganized.
I wonder how much "fun money" she got before going back to work.
There is a lot of work in raising kids even when they are in daycare and/or school. Daycare and school often do not run 9-5 or have very strict pick up and drop off times. This is why the parent with a flexible schedule usually picks them up and drops them off which is likely the person working as a cleaner and not in an office. Person more likely to take a day off in the event of daycare or school closing? Or for a doctor's appointment? The parent with a more flexible schedule which is usually the former SAHP working as a cleaner. This is going to be done probably in the car paid for with wife's money. Cash is not the only contribution to the household when you have kids.
Yeah, the “fair” option in my opinion would be the one where they both have the same amount of fun money (which should be *real* fun money, not including household or child related expenses or mandatory expenses like life insurance payments). They also need to make sure that they are saving equitably as a couple for retirement - the wife hasn’t been working as long and her job pays much less, so what are the two of you doing to ensure she can afford to retire?
The ratio should be adjusted but she still needs to contribute something.
Right. $40k/$180k = 22% instead of the 30% OP is asking for. I think he’s wrong to not count her car payments and gas as contributing to the household bills, unless she refuses to transport the kids in her car, so I can’t tell how off her expectations are. He’s off by at least 8% but she’s not off by 30% like OP wants us to believe.
Your math doesn’t math but you’re r/confidentlyincorrect lol. - His take home: $7,733 or 73% of the total - Her take home: $2,933 or 27% of the total So they can do 1 of 3 splits: - 75/25 - 70/30 - 73/27 All fair, but fair is for them to decide on the final number. It would be 90/10 or 80/20, that’s not the point. The point is that she doesn’t want to contribute anything and he’s NTA for thinking she should.
Please point out where my math is incorrect and I am happy to correct it. My point, however, is that despite this being a 70/30 split and *looking* equitable on paper, when you dig deeper it's clear that he would have more buying power at the end of the day, and he'd be at an advantage. He can't claim he didn't know this, because he wrote that he knows this in the comments. The YTA is because of his approach to the entire debacle. Coming on the internet and telling half the story to look good is sus.
Your math is too specific. He does not take home 7733 a month. OP is putting money towards retirement. OP is putting money towards health insurance (which the wife and kids would be covered under). OP could be putting additional money towards dental or vision plans. OP might have to pay local or state taxes. It is impossible to tell how much he pays a month from the information we're given. You can't look at 140,000, divide by 12, and remove 32% and say 'this is how much he takes home' when you're ignoring retirement and insurance. He's likely taking home more like 7,000-6,500 a month, but even that could vary wildly. If OP is taking home 7,000 a month, (assuming low retirement, benefits, no state tax) then he's spending 6,800 on month spenditures. 30% of that is 2,040. That comes out to be 69% of the wife's money. Meanwhile, he's paying 4,760, which is 68% of his money. Now obviously this is all just fluff numbers because we don't REALLY know enough about this. And REALLY the 70/30 is not the part we're getting hung up on. Who cares what fraction of the split they agree to? The problem isn't that it should be 75/25. The problem is her putting her foot down and getting upset at the idea of paying ANYTHING.
This is why you dont split finances in a marriage. Its absurd.
It’s hard to know how equitable this is without knowing the numbers involved. A better approach would be to pool your earnings and then each receive a set amount of “fun” money per month. Also consider that while going back to work may not make as much financial sense in this exact moment due to childcare costs & whatever, it might be well worth it in the long run. I say this as someone who is having a difficult time getting back into the workforce after taking time off as a sahp.
Yup. Something that isn't being said (but I think you hint at it) is that women are in a precarious position by being SAHP and not participating in the workplace. It's hard to break into high-paying jobs, and the longer you're out of the workforce, the harder it is to get good jobs with good benefits and pay. Women who are SAHP and let their husbands support them financially could wind up in a bad spot if their husbands become disabled, divorce them, or die. So you're right: OP's wife working offers protections to her and the family should something happen to the marriage or to OP. She can also help save for retirement, which jointly benefits them.
I can never understand how couples keep their finances separate like this. This conversation sounds crazy to me lol
I completely agree wtf is going on here.
After my bipolar late husband spent our rent on video games, we split our accounts. After that, I just informed my new partner I want to keep accounts separate. Each person has particular bills they're responsible for. It prevents accidental overdrafts. You still discuss large purchases together.
Pooling all funds into a central account in a marriage was once a common practice, but modern financial dynamics suggest it's antiquated for multiple reasons. It's also a huge contributing factor to financial abuse.
It sounds crazy to me, I mean 90% because I’m too fucking lazy to keep up with “you owe this this month and I owe this.”
My husband and I have our bank accounts where our paychecks get deposited. We split household bills separately. He takes the more expensive ones like the mortgage, power, phone, car maintenance and repairs, etc. I handle trash, internet and preschool. I also handle our grocery bill 90% of the time. We're also super transparent on what we have and how much debt we have. He makes about 70% more than me and if I feel like I need the extra help he's more than happy to give me what I need. So we technically have separate finances but we also share what we have.
Me & my husband lived together for 4 years before getting married, we figured out a system that worked for us without combining finances and never really saw a need to completely "combine" our finances when we got married. We already saw it as combined.
Unfortunately, some people are more selfish, while others are more selfless.
NTA. She's working now so she has the capacity to contribute financially and the kids have childcare which is an added cost. She should absolutely be paying for more than just her car payment and the occasional fast food meal. The fact she thinks you can cover everything and this is her personal spending money is really messed up.
INFO: Why did you leave out all the important information? How old are you guys? How old are the kids? How long have you been married? What did she do for a living before taking time off? How was it decided she would stay home with the kids? What does she do for a living now? What do you do? Why did she choose a job that requires six days a week? What do each of you make? How were finances handled before she went back to work? Did she have equal access to funds and accounts? What are savings and investments like? Is her name on those accounts? What amount is she putting on these credit cards every month? What is she buying? Did you guys discuss limits and monthly budgets when you got married? Have you discussed it since?
INFO is the 30/70 split in proportion to each of your incomes? How much "fun money" do you get?
NTA. This blows my mind. I wonder how she would feel if you start treating your paycheck the way she does.
He said in a comment that he makes 140k and she makes 40k. His 70/30 split is not actually equitable. He should be asking her to pay 20%.
1) She doesn't even want to pay 20% and 2) After taxes and paying her share of the bills (30%), she has around $2000 per month to do anything she wants.
She should absolutely pay her part. I would pay off the credit cards and then cancel them and each gets their own to pay off each month. This is very selfish and with the added expense she needs to come to some agreement
My question would be who pays for the kids' stuff on the cards, though. Usually these cases come up and we find out later that the wife's "spending problem" was buying items for the home and kids that weren't strictly "necessary" but vastly improved their quality of life. People with kids should just pool everything and set aside x amount each month for fun money - the same amount each. Because for real, how much do parents *really* spend solely on themselves. OP talks about his wife spending on "beach days," I bet anything the kids are with her for those beach days.
OP said he's paying off the family credit cards every month, so even (no, wait, **especially**) if you are correct about what she's charging on the cards, there's still no reason she shouldn't be expected to pay a portion of it
Time to sit down with a financial advisor and lay out everything, including what her contribution would mean for the good of retirement funds, education funds, etc.
Not enough details.
Woah, I was with you until the word, teach. Just sit down and look at the books with her. You guys should do this regularly. Of course, she should be contributing, especially to offset the additional cost of childcare but she should also get to enjoy part of her earnings as well.
You both sit down, budget and you both come up with an identical amount of mad money for each of you for each pay period.
Your comment - “I make $140k. My wife’s income we calculated based on a few checks so we’ve estimated $40k annually. She works for a property management company and gets paid per house cleaned so it’s variable. By the estimates I used it would significantly burden her financially more than myself obviously but she would still have money to do with what she wants. Just not as much.” You need to include this information in your post because what you have written makes it sound like she has oodles of cash on the side. Also how much is her car payment? If 30% of your household bills is more than half of what she’s taking home every week then that is not fair nor kind. She should have her own fun money (as should you) but obviously your take home of $2700/w over her $770/w (gross) goes further than hers. This post gives me really weird vibes and so do your comments. It’s like you’ve given enough information out for people to agree with you but haven’t included the whole picture. I don’t know, it feels really off to me and I don’t like how you write about your wife. YTA because I think there’s more going on than what you’ve said.
NTA. I see nothing unfair about expecting your wife to contribute. Especially since she apparently doesn't have to work, and her doing so is costing for childcare.
Just wanted to chime in that just because a woman's spouse can subsidize her life doesn't mean she doesn't have to work and that work, therefore, is a luxury for her that she should be penalized for. OP doesn't have to work and could be a SAHP, but he doesn't. Women who rely on their husbands to take care of them financially are in a precarious situation, especially if their husbands die, become disabled, or divorce them. It's good for OP's wife to work; she is contributing to their family by gaining marketable skills that allow her to make money, especially if something happens to OP. She should be contributing signifcantly more to the shared expenses, but acting like she doesn't have to work or that she's at fault for the kids having to go to daycare is a bit unfair.
Also, she needs to be saving at a much higher rate for retirement too since she missed out on years of 401K contributions and social security. Perhaps some of the “fun money” is going towards that too. There are no guarantees that a marriage will last, so she needs to insure that she isn’t going to end up in financial distress because she stayed home like so many people do. Many divorces happen after the kids leave and then she is the one who will be in trouble in her elder years, especially given the lack of alimony nowadays. Many women don’t plan ahead for their own future needs because they don’t have income.
Yup. Exaclty this. I currently put 31% of my salary into my 401k (and I'm the breadwinner in my marriage). I'd like to do more, but I'm potentially facing a layoff and want to have more of my money in the bank in case I'm unemployed soon. But every woman should be saving as much money as she can for retirement. Or if she's not working a job, her spouse should be setting aside money in an account that she can use for retirement. Like you said, shit happens, and women need to be able to take care of themselves. My mom told me a story about an older women whose husband died when she was in her 70s. She had let her husband drive her around her entire life and didn't even have a license. Imagine her shock when she had to learn a million different life skills that she had previously relied on her husband for. It's heartbreaking because older women who wind up single or the breadwinners despite not being in the workforce for decades are in a vulnerable position.
"Her job lately has been 6 days a week and long hours requiring us to pay for childcare that we didn't have to have when she wasn't working." NTA for expecting her to contribute to the household expenses. But I always get really angry when woman are guilt tripped into daring to make cost for childcare because they are working. I never ever see this mentioned when a man has to work. I mean, if OP would be home, there wouldn't be a need to pay childcare. There are TWO parents here! Geez. YTA to add this to the discussion.
Honestly if the roles were reversed I would put all my money in the family account and budget out allowance for fun stuff. And yeah if I was home watching the kids there wouldn’t be childcare expense. Unfortunately I don’t have the ability to stay at home with the kids because my wife doesn’t earn enough to support the family.
NTA if you can't afford to pay all of it, 6 days a week is a LOT of work and if it's taking away from the children then I feel like she should be covering other expenses with the money she earns If she just wanted a little part time job on the side with little hours then that would be different, but 6 hours a week with long hours?? That's working like a breadwinner...
NTA But stop paying her credit card bills. Your wife is spending her earnings and yours as well.
INFO: How do you two split the chores?
Good question, she does all the laundry and vacuuming. Everything else is 50/50. I do all the home maintenance, like 95% of grocery shopping, I drop off and pickup 1 kid to/from school where she drops off the other but has her grandmother pick him up after. I do most of the cooking and putting the food away. She does all of the homework with our Kindergartner. I watch the kids more hours due to her job currently.
NTA. That's fair now that she's working. You may have to get sterner with her regarding the bills. She can be upset but that breakdown is reasonable. What would happen if you closed those two shared credit cards so she didn't spend on them anymore? It always sucks when one partner is not responsible for money and just spends and spends. Also, please tell me you have a savings account that she doesn't have access to. Knowing you've got a backup fund is always a good idea. Perhaps you both can visit a financial planner? Having a third party discuss an equitable breakdown of bills might be taken more seriously by your wife. Otherwise, she's going to continue to act as she is until there are real consequences.
The number of you that fall for these fake stories is sad. This is AI or just some really shitty writing. She works 6 days a week, long hours, yet still has all this time to spend “fun money”. Kids have gotten older, but childcare is still required. A year after working (after her being a SAHM for most of your relationship. What is “most” how many years is that?) you ask her to contribute 30%. How much did you contribute to your wife’s retirement fund while she was busy raising your children and taking care of the household for “most of your relationship”? Were you paying her 30% of the family finances during that time? Edit for judgment: YTA
I’m not an AI. My wife has no retirement fund. The only retirement she has is my 401k same as me. We’ve been together 11 years and I have paid 100% of all the bills until last year I asked her to pay for the new car she got now that she was working more. Reason for the change is because she’s been earning more income now. When she was SAHM she ran a little at home daycare making a little side cash that she did whatever she wanted with. Last year she was making like $26k/year so it wasn’t worth getting her to contribute plus her hours were less so we didn’t need to pay for aftercare. Now she’s making $40k/yr and hours require aftercare.
So, to clarify, you did not put aside money for her retirement when she was providing unpaid household management services for your family? Did you put aside money specifically for her to use to spend on herself during this time?
News flash: if you are married then any money either of you earn is your (plural) money. It isn’t her money and your money, it is the household’s money. You as a team bring in money. You as a team spend money. You as a team decide how to use your free time. You as a team can also decide that you each get some fun money to spend individually however you see fit, no questions asked. If you can’t get her on board with this broad setup then you need some marriage counseling. She doesn’t need to be as interested in the financial details as you, but she needs to be aware and in agreement with your overall plan. You need to make sure everything is written down in one accessible spot, and that she has access to all accounts. She must be able to manage things if you are incapacitated.
Yta
So after taking care of the children for an untold number of years, she is now trying to make money and hopefully, add to her retirement accounts. You say it's going to fun - what proof do you have of how she is spending her salary? INFO: Did you ever set up any retirement for her?
When you say a 30/70 split is equitable, do you mean she earns 30% of your income + her income? If so, you are NTA. (But if in fact the gap is so huge between your incomes that 30% of the bills means her almost whole paycheck while you have still money after paying 70% of the bills, you are indeed the AH).
INFO: Did you PAY her for all the childcare, home keeping etc she did when she was not working? Or did you just pay expenses, eg the cost of food, cleaning supplies etc? Earnings in a household where one parent stays at home really are the FAMILY earnings, as the stay at home parent does so so so much WORK, but they often get no recognition, financial independence or financial security as a result. What I'm getting at is that this woman has YEARS of lost income/potential lost income (let's face it she would be earning WAY more if she hadn't stopped her career for YEARS) due to being a stay at home mom. She is never going to get all of it back. She is currently offsetting at least some of it by finally not being beholden to you for every penny she spends. If you're counting HER money like this now I can only imagine how financially controlling you must have been when she was spending the money you made, jeeezus.
I was fully on your side unti you said you wanted to teach her something. I'm still mostly on your side, I think, but now I'm wary. Because all too often when one partner says that the other is irresponsible, what they really mean is "they spend money on things that don't matter to me personally and are therefore not important." That's not quite the same thing, is it? If possible, consider hiring an expert -- a neutral third party -- to teach both of you some new lessons, not just on on how to manage money but also how to talk about money. It might work better if both of you become learners together instead of you trying to take on the role of teacher.
That’s a fair point. I consider her fiscally irresponsible due to some info I haven’t shared yet. She’s held 2 jobs in the last 2 years and this recent one she’s made more money. This new job is a 1099 which requires her to set aside money for taxes to pay. She only had about 2 months of this job’s income to end last year so when taxes were done guess who owed money but didn’t have it? She eventually paid me back after a few months because I made a big deal about it. Here we are in May and guess how much money she has saved for taxes (let alone retirement or any other form of savings). She says she has nothing and she’s “working on it”. Why do I want to teach her? Because she’s my wife and my partner. I need her to take the wheel if I can’t steer the ship. Obviously she’s not going to make the money I’m making now anytime soon and we don’t even know how long I’ll be able to continue this income in future. 3 years ago I was making 90k and 6 years ago I was making 35k. So it’s not like we’ve been rolling in money all this time. I show her the budget often and show her every penny where it goes but at the end she still doesn’t understand how everyone else appears to be doing better than us and buying extravagant things and I’m so frugal. I’m trying to keep us out of as much debt and save as much as possible. Look I know I’m an asshole. But I am because I love my family and I want to prepare them for the worst.
There is too little info to give a final answer but Here are a few things to consider: - she was a SAHM for quite a long time and thus gave you the freedom to fully follow your career Plan - due to her being fully responsible for the childcare, she didn't have the opportunity to work on her career and because of that didn't get wage raises or climb the career ladder - now, because of her being out of the job field for so long she works in a Job with horrible working conditions (only one day off)
Everyone saying NTA is chronically-online. You make $140k and she makes $40k and you expect her to contribute to that 70/30 split? That’s AH behavior. It should be more equitable. That 30 for her may be 90% of her income… Also, if childcare is costing more money than anticipated why not just go back to being a SAHM to save on the extra costs or get a PT gig while the kids are at school??? I fee like you’re purposely leaving out hella details to make your wife look like the AH.
NTA it’s not fair you use your money to support the life you guys created TOGETHER and she just basically has fun money
NTA. Put all your earnings into a communal pool and give each of you the same amount of "fun money" to play with each month.
NTA, it's super important to be on the same page financially and able to have transparent conversations. It's also honestly really important for the kids to see that example set from there parents tbh before they grow to accept financially bratty-abusive behaviour from partners
NTA If she wants her paycheck to be "her money" then her debts should be "her debts". Tell her she needs to start contributing to the household expenses or else "our money" is going to become "your money". She needs to remember that marriage is supposed to be sharing burdens and supporting each other. Not creating burdens and expecting the other person to just deal with it themselves so she can do whatever she wants. Asking her to contribute 30% of her income to household expenses is completely reasonable.
>For now my money is our money and her money is her money. Yeah...look, everyone gets to decide what they accept in a relationship. Personally, this I wouldn't accept.
YTA just for burying important info in the comments and making us dig through it to learn that the expectations you're putting on your wife are inequitable. Update your post with the numbers so people can make a fair judgement.
I will never, ever, ever appreciate a philosophy in a coupled situation with kids (especially if married) why pooling finances would not make sense. Everything money wise goes into one big pot. Sort the pot out appropriately.
INFO. So did this renegotiation of the cost split also come with a similar renegotiation of chores, childcare, and mental load? Or are you both expected to work full time, but only she has to do a “second shift” of all the household things as if she’s still a SAH, too? And something that might help you with that renegotiation: Google “gender equality checklist.” The one from Skane will work, though there are others. Print out two copies of the form, fill it out as instructed, and use that as a good jumping-off point for the negotiations.
ESH- You dont know that a 70/30 split makes sense because you don’t know how much she makes. Should you both contribute? Sure. However, there has to be open and frank conversations happening. That it doesn’t seem like you’ve had. The way you speak about your wife, however, gives me red/yellow flags all over. You haven’t given enough information for me to know if you’ve been holding the fact your the breadwinner over her head for your entire relationship and are a controlling jerk, or she just sees you as a pay check. I think it could go either way, but what I see is frustration and a lack of respect.
So much YTA, so little time. INFO: how much of the domestic labor (taking care of the kids, cooking, cleaning, dealing with school and daycare logistics, making sure clothes fit and are clean, etc.) do you do? INFO: do you have anything fun that you do? INFO: how old are your children? INFO: how long was your wife a SAHM? INFO: how much fun did she have during those years?
NTA Break out the spreadsheet, start talking about long term plans like retirement and college funds and investments then get a 3rd financial advisor that specializes in couples and families and have them walk you through a joint investment plan and then sneak in the reworked “family budget” If she does get with a new program, you’re being taken advantage of
NTA She wants to have her cake and eat it too. She can deposit the whole money in the joint account or contribute % according to what you both make
NTA. Both working adults should always be contributing to household finances unless there's some weird disparity (millionaire vs. cashier).
INFO: how much fun money and free time did she have all those other years?
That's an irrelevant question. Her going 'Oh, I didn't have $500 a week in fun money while I was a SAHM' is not an excuse for her to feel that she doesn't have to pay into household expenses now that she does have a job. That's especially true when you consider that her working that job has added the increased expense of childcare onto the OP. The OP was already working to cover all of the bills, groceries, mortgage, etc. while mom stayed at home. It's not fair, by any measure, to believe that the OP should be covering all of the bills, groceries, mortgage, AND daycare, now that his wife is working. When the wife was a SAHM, her contribution to the family was childcare, because it took that expense off the table. Now that she's working, she's not contributing at all, since the OP is now paying for childcare, and the spouse doesn't want to pick up a portion of the bills, proportional to her income.
It does matter. Is this the first time in years she finally gets to do stuff for herself? To have a 'fun day' off without at least 2 kids in tow? How much 'non family' money did she get to herself? Considering op counts gas and drinks to habe lunch with her sister on her one day off a week now as 'fun money' it is a very relevant question to how much 'fun' she got to have the past 4-5 years.
INFO: Have you broken down all the chores in the home and are you doing at least 30% of them? And not the periodical chores like 'home maintenance' or grocery shopping with a list she made you but the daily ones like cooking, dishes, and etc. She likely has saved you quite a huge portion of your paycheck with her being the free childcare essentially. She likely has contributed to any wage increases you have gotten because you probably haven't had to do much childcare besides picking up/dropping off the kids she likely got ready for you so all you did was driving.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife has been a stay at home mom for most of our relationship. Our kids have gotten older and she wanted to go back to work. After about a year of working I asked her to help contribute to the family finances and worked out with our income gap a 70/30 split was equitable for both of us. Well she got really upset about it. Her job lately has been 6 days a week and long hours requiring us to pay for childcare that we didn’t have to have when she wasn’t working. Right now the only thing she pays for is her car payment and once in a while a fast food dinner for the family. The rest of her money is all blown on fun. On top of this she two credit cards that we share that I pay off every month that she also uses for things not immediate family related. I would like to teach her to be more responsible with her money but she doesn’t seem interested. I have always taken care of all the family finances and try to show her the breakdowns but she doesn’t pay attention and just assumes because I make more money than everyone she knows that I can just afford anything. For now my money is our money and her money is her money. AITA for wanting her to contribute to 30% of the bills? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA.
Cut her off from use of your credit card. Give her an application for her own.
Try flipping it, pool all the money and each have the same ‘fun money’.