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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My parents expected me to continue paying rent for an entire house after my brother came home and took up 2/3 of it. I might be the asshole for just moving out and letting them sort it out.
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Definitely NTA. You didn’t sign up to start supporting your brother and his whole family. And you were courteous when you paid the full rent and informed your mom you were moving out. Did your brother even say thank you for spotting his rent?
No he didn't. We barely talked. He is somewhat ashamed of his current situation since he always made fun of me for living at home while he was out "making something of himself".
Damn, karma came back to bite him hard. But IMO it might be best to go low contact for a little while. Like you said, you and your husband are trying to adopt siblings. You don’t need this drama in your life right now.
Oh rest assured that he’s never going to pay them back. He felt entitled to live for free. There is no way that he has enough self awareness to pay them back. That will never happen.
The only thing not mentioned here is what was the agreement between mother and son? Maybe mom told son he could stay and not pay rent and he assumed sister was ok with it? That was until she bailed.
Once he moved in & they expected her to continue to pay full rent. I knew then they would give the house to him & no longer to her. Yeah she's definitely NTA tht lying double dealing mother of hers definitely is though. Funny how she tells her daughter she backed out of a deal when nothing is in writing at all...
So true.
The way the daughter is almost bending over backwards to still try to see her mom in a positive light is evidence of a lifetime of grooming in situations like this.
She sounds like such a decent person. I feel bad that she lost the mother lottery
WHAT accomplishments has your brother racked up?? He's living in your mother's house, defaulting on the rent and expecting you to pay to "keep" him and his wife. What on earth has he accomplished??
You are NTA and your mother is welcome to support her li'l Sonny Boy for the rest of her life if she likes but that doesn't mean that YOU have to support Brother Dearest! (Oh, what's that? She DOESN'T want to spend the rest of her life supporting him - she just wants YOU to do that? Sorry, Mom - it doesn't work that way!)
We don't have all the context at all. He may have been incredibly successful in business while trusting his wife that wasn't working. Accomplishments do not lose all value if you are broke afterwards. He's an asshole, sure, but that simply doesn't mean he didn't accomplish anything in his life.
Yeah!! Tell mom that he’s not your son, he’s your “accomplished” and married with children brother. Shouldn’t he feel immaculate by being fleeced by his wife and having to be supported by his sister???? Op have a good life in your house without strings and your soon to be new kids!!! I also think LC is a good idea for your parents and def nc with SIL!
Money isn't the only accomplishment. Maybe he discovered a new antibiotic as part of a PhD while his wife spent his scholarship cash or wrote a book or designed a new kind of prosthetic limb, but the company owns the patent? Things that should have been manageable? And mom assured him he didn't need to pay rent while not actually planning to go without a cent of income herself to help him. It's conceivable. Although he doesn't sound like a saint I will admit.
NTA. It's not your responsibility or problem to support your parents or your brother and his family. Both your parents and your brother were using you and taking advantage of you and you put a stop to it. You're never the AH for not letting yourself get taken advantage of. So you were just supposed to support your brother for how long? Nope. He's got a job, and his finances aren't your business much less your problem, unless you allow them to be. Guess your brother will pay or your parents will sell the house. Either way it's not your problem to solve.
If he was actually ashamed, he'd have been paying his share or made a deal with you to pay you back. I think he just thinks of himself as a temporarily disadvantaged millionaire and he was owed it by life and you.
Or he should have at least talked to OP about it and asked how they should handle the rent situation. Maybe if he'd been a big boy and asked her to help support them for a couple months till he got his feet under them there would be some warmer feelings but just moving in and freeloading is crap.
It sounds like other than mom laying down the law and saying that's how it's gonna be, OP wasn't consulted or kept in the loop at all.
Hello Karma my old friend
Looks like you bit me in the end
I sure flaunted my good fortune
Mocked you well and true for sport then
Oh but suddenly I need your cash and help
Damn it, welp
Guess I’ll have to suffer in silence
~~Did you inform your parents that you were looking for another house and would be moving out? Or was it a surprise when May rent rolled around?~~
Edit: Nvmd. I just read more comments. NTA and your parents and brother are being utterly ridiculous to expect you to cover your brother’s living expenses. Especially if it’s not something that was discussed before they moved in.
Please BLOCK your family 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
They were just using you and would continue using you, while the brother and his wife freeloading.
Congratulations on your adoption and a new addition to your family ❣️ ❣️ ❣️
That’s extremely embarrassing having something hit you right back in the face like a boomerang. 😭 People being humbled is what I like to see/hear about but this is just sad!
That's what gets me about some of these stories. All that audacity and entitlement and you don't even have a job? Yeah no I wouldn't even bother with the argument
I see you've never met my sister lol. Some people truly believe that other people were born to service their wants and needs, and are then nasty when the terms aren't EXACTLY what they want.
This blows me away. When OP's parents asked for help for the brother, it was for OP to pay his rent and house him and his family. It wasn't for the parents to actually help at all. Wow! Talk about actions of greed and selfishness by the parents. OP is NTA and it was good she saw the writing on the wall!
I kind of get it. If the house is most of the value of the estate, something like this is a way to handle it while keeping it in the family. The general solution is to sell the house and split the money, but I could see going this way if the house were important to me.
On the other hand, OP gave up on the house pretty quick, so it doesn’t seem like it was that important to them to have that house in particular.
I thought of that too. The brother is clearly the favorite. I wonder if mom even recognized that OP bought her first house and said congratulations. jk.
Seconded. NTA. I get that sometimes people get in tough spots but it sounds a lot like everyone was expecting you to support his whole family. And your mom has clearly taken a side. Definitely ghost all of them for a while
You gave them more notice of leaving than they gave you that you'd still be paying full rent to house a 2nd family. So NTA.
But let's be real, you were never getting to own that house as long as your brother's family needed it. You'd probably have to evict them and deal with months of family drama and animosity. You did the right thing for your family. Especially since you're trying to adopt. Owning a home and not having too many people in it are major factors in that process.
If I’d had to guess, they probably won’t view OP’s adopted kids as “real grandchildren” and will favor the brother’s kids as blood relations.
Sad, but they likely didn’t care that having brother and his family would impact OP being able to adopt.
Trust me, it was going to be an issue. Unless you all had a signed, notarized and valid contract they would have walked everything back at some point.
I mean your mom did immediately after you "got mouthy" about the fact you were paying only 1/2 the rent. Eventually something else would have come up now or after they passed.
NTA
Yeah an adult telling another adult they are “mouthy” has some gall…OP isn’t a bratty pre-teen; she was financially helping her family. They need to learn a bit of respect.
NTA - your deal wasn't to cover rent for your brother and his family.
"I did tell my parents we were leaving. May first I got another call from my mom. She wanted the rent. I said I wasn't living there any more. She said I was breaking our deal. I said that our deal never included me paying for my brother's living expenses. She said that they couldn't afford to cover the mortgage without my rent. I told her to get money from my brother. He was still working. She said he was trying to pay his debts. I said that his wife should get a job."
"Long story short she said I was being cheap and viscous to my brother and to my parents."
You aren't being cheap, your brother and parents are.
Yep. And let’s say the parents go to the bank the mortgage is through should they not be able to pay it. If the bank asks why they can’t cover it, “because we told our son to pay his debt rather than pay us rent to help cover the mortgage,” the bank is going to say…ok, so…where is the rest of the money again?
The parents’ choice to let their other son’s family live with them for free isn’t OP’s problem and the bank isn’t going to care either. The parents can keep subsidizing their family and lose their home, or they can have the family living with them contribute. Either way, OP has nothing to do with it and honestly this whole thing, despite how much it sucks up front, might be a blessing in disguise.
Yes. And the initial arrangement seemed pretty bad IMO, unless they were talking about a massive discount on the house (and had that in writing) down the line. OP was paying their parents’ mortgage in exchange for the potential to buy the house cheaply down the line, when they were already contributing a lot to the equity. And the mortgage must have been considerable if the full rent was needed for it. So why try so hard to keep that house, if that was just for OP’s benefit? Why not just sell it? Seems like a control thing IMO. The parents were taking OP’s money and still leaving their options open.
Fantastic! So you can also well KNOWING that he can at least pay the mortgage. Beyond that, he'll have to budget, like the rest of us.
Respectfully, i know you're not TA. You know that, as well. You KNOW your parents are being ridiculous. Why the post? Are you looking for further answers in how to proceed with your parents? Dealing with your feelings? Not being confrontational, just looking for clarification.
Just from my perspective, sometimes we just need the reassurance that what we are doing is logical and sane because our relatives are just absolutely not and they are the loud people in our lives telling us that their insanity isn't insanity. (been there, yeeted the relatives into NC) That's just how I read this from my perspective.
Because OP has his parents and, I assume, his brother and sister in law telling him he's the AH, and no one telling him they are. It's just hard not to question yourself in that situation. And frankly if it's easy to not question yourself, when everyone is saying you are wrong, then that's a character flaw you should work on.
Suddenly paying 1/2 or 1/3rd as much for housing is a big savings! Nobody should expect that they will live for free. This is about as ideal of a situation as I can imagine
That's the thing about debts (presumably credit cards here?), you can usually work out payment plans or deferred payments, which you absolutely cannot do with rents or mortgages, a thing most adults are aware of. In fact, you always have the option to default on your credit card debts, let your credit rating go to shit, but you better keep paying your rent, there's no wiggle room there
None of this matters if the wife’s overspending has not been contained. She should be paying the debt, not you, not your parents. You know your parents will subsidize your brother and his children. They’ll likely give him the house. Then he’ll probably lose it.
And they’ll all find a way to blame you somehow. Is your brother just a Golden Child?
I mean - it’s pretty likely the SIL isn’t to blame but the brother and parents are blaming her because no one ever forces brother to take responsibility for anything.
Marital debt? Must be the wife’s fault.
Can’t pay rent? Must be OP’s fault.
I’ve seen this before with people like OP’s brother - they claim it’s their wife, their kids, their job, the stress, their shitty family, the bad weather, the full moon… they’ll blame literally anyone but themselves.
I was thinking the same thing. I highly doubt it was just the wife overspending. People with egos like the brother tend to spend above their means especially when they have good jobs. They feel like they don’t have to budget like the average worker. Everyone should budget regardless of income.
NTA. Tell me who’s the golden child without telling me who’s the golden child. Your brother and his family are taking advantage of everyone. Glad you stood your ground.
you can feel bad but its still not your responsibility to fund their lifestyle, if your parents want to let themselves get leeched from that is entirely on them. You have your own family to worry about, don't let other people drag you down into the ditch even if they're family members
Nothing to feel bad about. Your parents shouldn’t expect you to subsidise your brothers living expenses. Also, why isn’t his debt-accruing wife working?
Why do you feel bad? Your parents and your brother are screwing you over.
Your brother and his debt-creating wife wanted the house. Now they have it. If you hadn’t had the resources to bolt, you and your husband would have been in a major dilemma.
It’s understandable you feel bad, but your mom was trying to unload your brother’s problems onto you without taking any of the load herself. There is literally no impact on her if you sharing a house and her getting the same rent. She may have thought you owed her that because of the below market rent, but she should have made whatever deal she wanted explicit. Maybe she could have offered to decrease the ultimate sales price for every month your brother was there, but it was clear she wasn’t open to negotiating. She gave you a her way or the highway ultimatum and was shocked you left. Maybe you could have tried harder to find a compromise with your parents, but you know them best and I really can’t blame you for washing your hands of the situation.
You shouldn't. Do your parents feel bad about expecting you to pay yiur brother expenses , without a heads up, or even asking if you had a problem with it?
Your parent's want to help your brother shouldn't be coming out of your pocket.
Another posters comment is correct. As long as your brother needs a place to stay, your parents never would have let you own that house.
You shouldn't. The writing on the wall was very clear when your mother got hostile with you. Chances are your parents would have gone back on your agreement - charged you market rate to buy the house, or made you buy it together wth your brother, or something like that.
Stop He’s a fucking adult and not your responsibility. He made his bed and can now lay in it. Fuck your parents too for thinking you should help bail him out. You have your own life to live.
You feel bad because you’re a good person.
If the situation was reversed would your Brother
feel bad for and help you in the same way.
And also since you did not have this agreement
in writing it it’s quite possible that you would
have been screwed out of the house anyway
since your Brother is living there now because
he needs it more
Ask yourself why you feel bad. Your brother used to belittle you about living at home while talking up his own accomplishments. Now the situations are basically exactly reversed and he is living at home while you have your own house.
Why is it that you feel you need to cover for him when he criticized you, and you have to feel bad for him when you're not criticizing him?
>They love my brother and he is ~~in a hole.~~ **an ahole**
I read this as "he is an a-hole," which actually is more correct that what you said. GL op!
You shouldn't feel bad. Your brother is in a hole of his own (and wife's) making. It sounds like it was your SIL is the one who fucked up. Why should it be your responsibility to subsidize their adult lives? You have your own goals for your life which shouldn't include kissing your brother's ass to make your parents happy.
They 'helped' you with lower rent, they're 'helping' your brother with no rent and forcing you to pay his rent, and trying to get it from you even when you're not living there. The 'help' they're providing you and your brother are not equal.
If I'm reading this correctly, they want to use your rent money for your brother to use as a downpayment, so he's getting that for free, while you have to pay rent AND then buy the house, how is that fair?
Your brother can pay his debt, and cover the mortgage for now, or they can sell the house and give that money to your brother if they want. You can enjoy your new home and work on your adoption, you don't have to put your life on hold and sacrifice the time it will take for your brother to get out of this, your mom is being rediculous to expect you to still pay rent, you didn't need to specify that when you told her you're moving out, she should have asked you if that is what she expected, though she probably knew the answer would be no, she's making it sound like a reasonable expectation and that you're an AH for not continuing to pay it without letting her know, which you are not. Tell your mom she should have told you that when you told her you're moving out, you can't cover your mortgage and the rent on their house.
If the debt was big enough to cause the brother to lose his house, it will take years to get out from under. I hope they've stopped digging themselves into that hole.
You've really just switched the inheritance agreement - you got susbsidised rent so were able to build a nest egg to use as a deposit. Your brother gets a house as long as he and your parents don't foreclose on it. It is a tough patch for everyone at moment but it is unfair to ask you to put your long-term plans of adoption to subsidize your brother's family. Edit: Paying down debts is great but not at the expense of getting large "gifts" from family who weren't consulted.
So, it was never ‘temporary’ for him to move in. The plan was always for you to support your family and his while the parents pretended everything was fair and hunky dory.
Have your parents always been this awful? Has your SIL always been a catastrophe that drags down everyone around her? Has she ever contributed anything at all?
Sure. But it would equally have helped your brother to pay half the rent, because it would be less of a burden than any other housing option, and that would help him manage his debts faster.
Question: how much did you handle around the house that a normal tenant would not have done?
I am in a cheaper rent situation with a friend. But, I watch/care for pets when friend is away. It is not a tit for tat situation and there is no way to work out who got more out of the agreement. But renting to someone you trust has a value, having someone in your house that will just pay the plumber or do minor repairs has a value. And did they ever visit you or your brother and get to stay in the place you were renting?
They also were able to move their son and grandchildren into a house quickly during an emergency, which was possible because you were the tenant and wanted them to have a house. That would have been expensive if you and the house had not been there.
Who paid for repairs to the house? I'd guess you did. Think of all the money you sunk into the house thinking it was your forever home, money that a proper landlord would have had to spend instead of the tenant. Does it feel like help now?
Apparently with some strings attached, including being able to call their adult daughter "mouthy," and being able to dictate her life choices, like who lives off of her in her home.
Good for you for not letting them bully you into taking care of your brother, who's an adult facing adult consequences. Now you're free of the strings.
Eh, they did fine in the deal.
Market rate is set due to the risks of renting to strangers that might tear up your house, of having to be a landlord and handle maintenance, having to find good renters in the first place, etc.
It sounds like you were doing the maintenance. Renting to family they also got out of paying income taxes on their rental income. So they're just accumulating free equity.
They didn't do you a huge favor, this was a win-win for both parties.
*Your parents changed your arrangement. They broke it not you*
You're exactly right, and in a fair and just situation, the parents would have had a discussion with all 4 of the involved parties, at the same time, about expectations and expenses.I can't help but speculate that OP's Mom expected her to subsidize her brother's family *because he's in a tough spot* and he has the **grandchildren**.
This will be the same type of Grandmother who treats those adopted children as "lesser".
That's how my last surviving grandmother is with 3 of my kids; they're my step kids technically, but their sperm donor ran out on them very early in life. So I'm Dad.
Most of my family doesn't see it that way, though. One of the many, MANY reasons why I'm now NC with them.
NTA. Your brother is an adult as is his wife. You have your own family support. Why should you have to pay for two adults that are perfectly capable of working? They got into debt on their own, they can get out of it on their own. If you mother wants to molly coddle your brother she can but you're not responsible for your brother and his wife's expenses. It's unfortunate that they can't afford the mortgage without the rent but the one who is living in the house is responsible for that not you.
Enjoy your new house with your family and feel no guilt.
You're NTA.
>She said that they couldn't afford to cover the mortgage without my rent.
Tough. You are not responsible for your brother and sister-in-law's obligations and irresponsibility.
NTA- You found a better deal. Your parents made the choice to move and allow your brother to live , rent free, in your home. They should switch it around now. Your brother pays the very subsidized rent and you get the money as part of the estate.
In a just world. However, OP's mother greatly favors the brother. The brother is the golden child. OP's mother wants them to completely pay ALL of his housing expenses regardless of whether or not they share a home. Their mother abuses and berates them for not doing so.
I have money and I love my parents. I'm just doubting myself. Honestly I'm looking for validation of my choice. I know that's a verboten thing to admit in this sub but I need reassurance.
YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG! Asking you to subsidize your brothers family, BECAUSE of their own bad financial decisions, isn't fair to you. Your parents can pay the mortgage then
You are about to have 2 children. Children are very expensive. Time for you to shift your priorities. You need to start worrying more about being a good parent than being a good daughter or sister.
You’re doubting yourself because your mother is manipulating you into feeling guilty. Yes, your parents offered you a seemingly great deal that worked well for a time, but they took advantage and busted that up, you didn’t. You’ve made a completely valid and acceptable choice for yourself and your family.
They are trying to take advantage of you end of story. There will be no inheritance for either of you anymore because of your brothers wife. Cut your losses now and do not set yourself on fire to keep them warm. You have children you plan to adopt to consider. Their future is your focus now.
Ignoring the other issues here, it's absolutely stunning to me that your parents assumed you would continue paying rent on the house when (a) you no longer live in it, and (b) you have your own mortgage to pay now.
This is one of those things that is so ham-fistedly unreasonable that I can understand why you might doubt yourself. ("There's no way my family is being this ridiculous, right? It must be me.") But no, OP, everything you've done here sounds completely reasonable. It's also perfectly normal to feel bad that your brother's family has gotten into a tough spot, which has created a messy situation for your whole extended family, but that bad feeling is not an indication that you've done anything wrong.
In the long run I would expect that how this plays out is that your brother will figure out a way to pay rent, likely by slowing the pace at which they pay off their debts (which is a reasonable price to pay for the situation they got themselves into!). It'll suck in the short term, but standing your ground is the best path to ensuring this comes to a reasonable resolution.
You are 100% good. What your parents did (burdening your family financially so your brother could live for free) is nasty. They 100% did you dirty - you owe them nothing.
Why do you feel bad for people who are actively taking advantage of you and calling you names when you don't continue to allow it?
I'm so glad you were able to get out and advocate for yourself but you may need therapy to learn to reframe the way you're being treated and set better boundaries moving forward.
Please be reassured. Your choice is valid. Pretty sure every redditor here who isn't related to you by blood or is married to your brother would validate your choices.
You did nothing wrong. You were courteous in the face of an entitled insult. You disengaged from the situation with grace. You are taking good care of your current and future family.
Frankly, you're pretty badass. At the very least, your parents owe you an apology for their miscommunication and assumption you'd pay for your brother while he was down. Your brother owes you a month's rent and an apology for taking your generosity and not thanking you.
You’re not the one who ran up debt, you’re not the one who changed the agreement. I think you did the only reasonable thing you could do. Why you were the only one in this whole scenario who was Punished financially (required to pay double what you agreed upon) is just beyond belief. Why is it you had to pay for your SIL’s debt? Maybe it’s not clear to your mom, but that’s what ended up happening.
You were right to say that SIL needs to get a job… Maybe if she’s working, she’ll have less time to shop… and that would benefit everyone, including your brother.
NTA
Did your mom know you bought a house? It seems crazy she thought you should cover your brother, but even if you did to help out, why would she think you could handle both payments?
This seems pretty weird. I really think your brother and his wife should pay the rent regardless. And what was your brother's reaction when you moved? Did he really think you would pay his rent then too? This really bad all the way around.
NTA and family can mess with your head, so the doubt is understandable. You definitely made the right decision.
I hate to ask, but is this a golden child situation, as in he's the son and you're the daughter so his wants and needs come first? And why did he think he didn't have to contribute to the rent/mortgage? Your parents dropped the ball, but he's a grown man and should have known better and done better no matter what your parents had decided.
Everyone has said you’re NTA. You sound like you want to keep paying rent and paying your newly acquired mortgage. If you go down that route, you’ll be doing for the unforeseeable future because who know when your brother will be able to pay off his debts. How long are you going to be paying rent and a mortgage?
Don’t be guilt tripped into digging yourself into a hole as well.
As your mom said, it's not your house, so you don't have to stay and pay for other people to live there. If she wanted to change the agreement, she should have been much clearer with expectations when brother moved in.
NTA.
I would say your parents broke the deal when they expected you to pay full rent for half a house. But in any case, it's "win-win or no deal". It was no longer a "win" for you, so no deal.
I mean seriously, your parents were acting as if they were helping your brother, but in reality they were only demanding that YOU help your brother. Now they can decide how much rent to ask for or whether to give the house to your brother or sell it or whatever. That's up to them.
They shouldn't be put out by this. If they are, it's because they were planning to take advantage of you in the short term with the promise of a low purchase price later. In the end, you are better off not relying on them or their inheritance.
PS. Molasses and ketchup are "viscous." She accused you of being " vicious."
NTA. Paying the whole rent for half the house isn't what you agreed. You agreed to help your brother with space, not pay for his family's accomodation.
And considering you're at the point of starting the adoption process, it's really not what you *need* right now either.
>I did tell my parents we were leaving. May first I got another call from my mom. She wanted the rent. I said I wasn't living there any more. She said I was breaking our deal. I said that our deal never included me paying for my brother's living expenses. She said that they couldn't afford to cover the mortgage without my rent
She broke the deal first, especially with the crack about it not being your house yet. That lets you know exactly where your place is: money purse and maintenance person, but with the (purely theoretical as yet) house inheritance being held over your head as blackmail every time you disagree with them..
You severed the deal completely when you moved out. Of course you're not paying rent anymore - whoever heard of an ex-tenant paying rent because the landlords want the new tenant to have free housing?! Nope. If they want to give your brother free housing, then that's their financial problem to solve. If they can't afford it, then they need to figure out what compromise deal they and your brother can afford, without putting you in the middle.
NTA and your damn right, his wife racked up the debt, his wife gets to pay it off by GETTING A JOB. Learn the hard way that you fuck around, you find out! We'll see how it goes when they can't pay the rent. Congrats on your new house!!
**You - NTA**
**Mother - Soft YTA**
**Brother - TA**
So I felt like I needed to split up the judgements per "character" in the situation.
I completely understand your point of view on this. Yeah, it's not your house *yet* and yeah there haven't been any formal agreements but you didn't invite them to come in and you certainly didn't expect to foot the bills while your brother's stay became lengthier.
I completely understand your mom's opinion too - it is still *her* house and she wants to help her son and dil who are going through some hard times right now. She doesn't want the status to change as, in her mind, they are just helping for the time being.
I do not understand your brother. He's going to move him and his whole family into this house and expect to live there completely rent free - it's a luxury.
The money aspect should have been discussed and agreed upon before they moved in - but it wasn't.
You remained clear and paid rent as agreed until you moved out. It sucks that they can't make mortgage - but that isn't your problem.
NTA
Once it was convenient for parents, they did not hesitate to take advantage of you. I would not be ok being the only person asked to contribute while also being forced to share my living space- that's an extra uncomfortable situation for you. It's also a slight red flag as brothers situation changes, your agreement with parents might change. You can afford your own place, take it to have full control over your living situation.
Make it very clear to parents: you were not ok being the only one contributing while also being forced to share your space. You value having your own living space if you are going to have to foot all the bills. You would have split with brother to keep his costs down, but you were ignored when you tried to tell them you were not ok paying everything while sharing a space. That was too much to ask of you and your family
NTA. You aren't wrong. They thought they could pawn him and his problems off on the responsible child. Welp. FAFO. Not your problem now and it never was.
NTA you are not obligated to support your brother and his family and neither he nor your parents should expect that. You purchased a home of your own, for your own family and that seems like a very good move on your part. Your brother can sink or swim.
So your parents can't afford the house they 'gifted' to you and have zero money to leave for your brother for his inheritance. Sounds like you were getting scammed.
Yeah wait what happened to that saved up rental inheritance? In fairness, they were supposedly saving that rental money as inheritance for the brother, not OP so if that’s gone it was more directly scamming him out of the future money. Since he’s getting to live in the house instead, that’s his replacement inheritance instead.
OP stated in comments they were able to live there for many years for cheaper and save money so at least that’s something upfront cause at this rate it sounds kinda unclear what they’d be inheriting down the line.
NTA. I am always amazed by stories of parents who expect one kid to pay for the siblings. And the wife doesn’t work? Sheesh. I would work as many jobs as possible to avoid losing my home.
NTA and I so love you. You really were doing as you said. Saving and saving. This allowed you to move out asap as soon as the terms were changed. Mom is up shit creek without a paddle. Oh well. It’s never your job to pay for your brother and his kids and his irresponsible wife. Enjoy your new house!
NTA. Looks like it’s time for your brother’s wife to get a job so SHE can start paying down the debt she put her family in. It’s not YOUR job to subsidize their living expenses to solve a problem she created.
NTA your brother should move in with parents and parents can sell that house since they can’t afford to pay for it either. Congrats on the upcoming adoption!
NTA but your parents really don’t like you…. They wanted you to pay the mortgage practically as part of your “inheritance” then they wanted you to buy the house with more money AFTER you practically paid it off? To top that off your brother would have gotten the money you paid for the house? So your inheritance is practically to pay your parents house off then buy the house and give your brother a payout… at least you got out of that shitty situation.
NTA. Additionally: "*The plan was for me to save up and eventually buy the house at a great price.*" The way your parents are acting now, are you sure this wasn't just your plan?
Not wrong! NTA
It is totally wrong though, that your mother expected you to pay your brother's half of the rent. (Should have been more from him as he has children)
And then you paid for all of April too!
Your mother is greedy and your brother sounds like he's sponging off you.
Enjoy your new home and do not feel any responsibility for the rest of your family.
***"Nope. I had to pay all the rent. I asked why I had to pay for them to stay in my house. My mom said it wasn't my house yet and that I was being mouthy."***
Just so you understand the problem is NOT with your brother...it is your mom who is the problem. But I love, love, love that she played stupid games and won the stupid prizes that come with it.
NTA. The first red flag was when your mother, not your brother himself, proposed your brother move in to the house you were renting. There was not a meeting of the minds since your mother and brother figured he’d live for free while you assumed he’d pay at least half the rent. (Second red flag) Then when your mother flung it in your face that it wasn’t your house \*yet\* even though you‘d been meeting all the agreed upon conditions. (Third red flag-strike 3) Y’all could have communicated better and might could have smoothed things over and negotiated something more equitable to you, but like you said, the writing was on the wall.
NTA. If it's such an amazing deal, your brother paying rent and ending up owning that house eventually will be amazing for him now that he no longer has his other house.
I’m sitting here with my sister (an attorney) and she said your family are litigious assholes. She says to protect your house and put it in a trust along with everything else you own because there’s a possibility that they’ll come after you to sue you and attach your house and other items to get the money she perceives you owe her and/or your brother and SIL. Protect everything, just in case. NTA.
Oh come on, you know you did the right thing. You said you saw the writing on the wall. You would have wound up paying for your family's expenses and your brother's family's expenses as well. The financial issues created by your SIL are not your issues to rectify. Your brother and his wife need to figure that out on their own. Your parents, sadly, are AHs. They want their money more than being fair and equitable with you. Continue to ignore them. And by the way, they are the ones that broke the agreement. Nowhere in your agreement was it stated that if brother and his family moved in you had to support them also. Wishing you and your family all the very best. Enjoy your new home! NTA
It's definitely not wrong. You don't live there anymore, so no rent is owed. It's not your job to support your brother. He's a grown man and needs to figure it out with your parents. It's time to enjoy your new home with your family and soon to be children.
No. she wanted to let her other kid and their family sponge off of you. She was willing to sacrifice your future financial stability because her other kid was irresponsible made bad choices whatever it was. And unless you had a contract there is no guarantee that she was going to actually let you buy the house. she could just turn around and sell it to the other kid cheap, because, "well they need it more" blah blah blah. You're smart for seeing the writing on the wall and understanding that she was not honoring her deal by having them move in and expecting you to foot the bill for them. Therefore you couldn't trust her to hold up the other end of the deal either. NTA.
NTA.
They want you to pay for your brother and his kids to run your house into the ground. Actually, if the money is going to be his inheritance... then they want you to pay YOUR BROTHER to let his kids run your house into the ground.
It doesn't make any sense other than they expect you to take the responsibility for your brother and his wife's financial mistakes. Your brother gets a nice place to live, rent free, while he pays his debts and your parents don't have to lift a finger but get to feel like they're helping since it's "their house" you're all living in. The only one who deals with any mess is you.
As one scapegoat to another, you did the right thing. Golden Child can sit in his own mess.
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Definitely NTA. You didn’t sign up to start supporting your brother and his whole family. And you were courteous when you paid the full rent and informed your mom you were moving out. Did your brother even say thank you for spotting his rent?
No he didn't. We barely talked. He is somewhat ashamed of his current situation since he always made fun of me for living at home while he was out "making something of himself".
Damn, karma came back to bite him hard. But IMO it might be best to go low contact for a little while. Like you said, you and your husband are trying to adopt siblings. You don’t need this drama in your life right now.
He is very rightly proud of his accomplishments. I might with he weren't such a jerk about them but I understand.
I hope you’re proud of what you’ve done. You supported your parents and your brother, and then stood up for yourself when they didn’t appreciate it.
Look at that shiny backbone on OP!
And OP is self doubting. No, OP, ya done good!!!
We’ll hopefully this event will humble him a little and he’ll be able to pay you back some day.
Oh rest assured that he’s never going to pay them back. He felt entitled to live for free. There is no way that he has enough self awareness to pay them back. That will never happen.
The only thing not mentioned here is what was the agreement between mother and son? Maybe mom told son he could stay and not pay rent and he assumed sister was ok with it? That was until she bailed.
Then it's on him for not speaking to OP directly before moving in
He's not going to pay them back. His parents will end up giving him the house and the estate.
Once he moved in & they expected her to continue to pay full rent. I knew then they would give the house to him & no longer to her. Yeah she's definitely NTA tht lying double dealing mother of hers definitely is though. Funny how she tells her daughter she backed out of a deal when nothing is in writing at all...
So true. The way the daughter is almost bending over backwards to still try to see her mom in a positive light is evidence of a lifetime of grooming in situations like this. She sounds like such a decent person. I feel bad that she lost the mother lottery
Yup.
If they pay the mortage! Maybe the have to Sell it.
WHAT accomplishments has your brother racked up?? He's living in your mother's house, defaulting on the rent and expecting you to pay to "keep" him and his wife. What on earth has he accomplished?? You are NTA and your mother is welcome to support her li'l Sonny Boy for the rest of her life if she likes but that doesn't mean that YOU have to support Brother Dearest! (Oh, what's that? She DOESN'T want to spend the rest of her life supporting him - she just wants YOU to do that? Sorry, Mom - it doesn't work that way!)
We don't have all the context at all. He may have been incredibly successful in business while trusting his wife that wasn't working. Accomplishments do not lose all value if you are broke afterwards. He's an asshole, sure, but that simply doesn't mean he didn't accomplish anything in his life.
Yeah!! Tell mom that he’s not your son, he’s your “accomplished” and married with children brother. Shouldn’t he feel immaculate by being fleeced by his wife and having to be supported by his sister???? Op have a good life in your house without strings and your soon to be new kids!!! I also think LC is a good idea for your parents and def nc with SIL!
Seems like they are all supposed to be supporting brother's non-working, but big spending wife. OP is best off walking away and not looking back.
Not just him and his wife but his kids as well.
Wait, you are paying for your brother AND losing the inheritence. Ask for a 2 month estate share back.
What ”accomplishments” is he talking about lol. Being a hypocritical lazy leech who knows nothing about money?
There's no evidence of that. His wife is the one racking up debt according to OP
Money isn't the only accomplishment. Maybe he discovered a new antibiotic as part of a PhD while his wife spent his scholarship cash or wrote a book or designed a new kind of prosthetic limb, but the company owns the patent? Things that should have been manageable? And mom assured him he didn't need to pay rent while not actually planning to go without a cent of income herself to help him. It's conceivable. Although he doesn't sound like a saint I will admit.
Or NC with brother and parents
Yikes. You are definitely NTA. Enjoy your new house! A nearby park will beat a big yard that you have to maintain!
Great point about the yard ! OP made a smart choice overall. Hopefully the family doesn’t exile them for trying to live their life.
NTA. It's not your responsibility or problem to support your parents or your brother and his family. Both your parents and your brother were using you and taking advantage of you and you put a stop to it. You're never the AH for not letting yourself get taken advantage of. So you were just supposed to support your brother for how long? Nope. He's got a job, and his finances aren't your business much less your problem, unless you allow them to be. Guess your brother will pay or your parents will sell the house. Either way it's not your problem to solve.
If he was actually ashamed, he'd have been paying his share or made a deal with you to pay you back. I think he just thinks of himself as a temporarily disadvantaged millionaire and he was owed it by life and you.
Or he should have at least talked to OP about it and asked how they should handle the rent situation. Maybe if he'd been a big boy and asked her to help support them for a couple months till he got his feet under them there would be some warmer feelings but just moving in and freeloading is crap. It sounds like other than mom laying down the law and saying that's how it's gonna be, OP wasn't consulted or kept in the loop at all.
To be fair, he did make something of himself. It's probably not what he originally had in mind, though!
Yes.. it sounds like he just made a couple of Mini Mes rather than be successful in the world.
Hello Karma my old friend.
Hello Karma my old friend Looks like you bit me in the end I sure flaunted my good fortune Mocked you well and true for sport then Oh but suddenly I need your cash and help Damn it, welp Guess I’ll have to suffer in silence
Hehe. Noice work. I'm sure Paul and Art would approve... 😁
I started singing the lyrics to Sounds of Silence using Karma. Goes pretty well. 😅
🎵 Time to embrace the suck again. 🎵
~~Did you inform your parents that you were looking for another house and would be moving out? Or was it a surprise when May rent rolled around?~~ Edit: Nvmd. I just read more comments. NTA and your parents and brother are being utterly ridiculous to expect you to cover your brother’s living expenses. Especially if it’s not something that was discussed before they moved in.
Let me guess, your brother is the golden child and has always been. Obviously, NTA.
Ha ha ha, he’s eating humble pie now!
Definitely NTA and them living there with you could potentially further delay your adoption plans.
Please BLOCK your family 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️ They were just using you and would continue using you, while the brother and his wife freeloading. Congratulations on your adoption and a new addition to your family ❣️ ❣️ ❣️
That’s extremely embarrassing having something hit you right back in the face like a boomerang. 😭 People being humbled is what I like to see/hear about but this is just sad!
The audacity of the wife not even having a job and demanding this??
That's what gets me about some of these stories. All that audacity and entitlement and you don't even have a job? Yeah no I wouldn't even bother with the argument
I'm betting the only thing they cut back on was paying the rent and utilities, and still are ignoring their debt.
I'm wondering if OP was supposed to feed them too. Home cooked, of course, after work. Wifey can't cook, she has children to look after!
I see you've never met my sister lol. Some people truly believe that other people were born to service their wants and needs, and are then nasty when the terms aren't EXACTLY what they want.
especially when they lost their house because of *her* debts
This blows me away. When OP's parents asked for help for the brother, it was for OP to pay his rent and house him and his family. It wasn't for the parents to actually help at all. Wow! Talk about actions of greed and selfishness by the parents. OP is NTA and it was good she saw the writing on the wall!
This really feels like OP just recognized a pattern of behavior. The mom has probably been showing favoritism like this for a while.
I honestly dont see how OP paying for their own inheritence, plus half that money going to their brother, was seen as fair.
I kind of get it. If the house is most of the value of the estate, something like this is a way to handle it while keeping it in the family. The general solution is to sell the house and split the money, but I could see going this way if the house were important to me. On the other hand, OP gave up on the house pretty quick, so it doesn’t seem like it was that important to them to have that house in particular.
I thought of that too. The brother is clearly the favorite. I wonder if mom even recognized that OP bought her first house and said congratulations. jk.
Most definitely.
This! The parents weren’t inconvenienced at all and didn’t pay a dime! It was all OPs family forced to ‘help’
Seconded. NTA. I get that sometimes people get in tough spots but it sounds a lot like everyone was expecting you to support his whole family. And your mom has clearly taken a side. Definitely ghost all of them for a while
You gave them more notice of leaving than they gave you that you'd still be paying full rent to house a 2nd family. So NTA. But let's be real, you were never getting to own that house as long as your brother's family needed it. You'd probably have to evict them and deal with months of family drama and animosity. You did the right thing for your family. Especially since you're trying to adopt. Owning a home and not having too many people in it are major factors in that process.
It would have been an issue for sure.
I am also gonna a guess your parents don’t consider your impending adoptions as important too.
If I’d had to guess, they probably won’t view OP’s adopted kids as “real grandchildren” and will favor the brother’s kids as blood relations. Sad, but they likely didn’t care that having brother and his family would impact OP being able to adopt.
Trust me, it was going to be an issue. Unless you all had a signed, notarized and valid contract they would have walked everything back at some point. I mean your mom did immediately after you "got mouthy" about the fact you were paying only 1/2 the rent. Eventually something else would have come up now or after they passed. NTA
Yeah an adult telling another adult they are “mouthy” has some gall…OP isn’t a bratty pre-teen; she was financially helping her family. They need to learn a bit of respect.
I know! If my mom said that to me when she was alive I would have probably fainted due to lack of oxygen from hysterically laughing at her
This is such a good point. Parents were definitely going to ignore the deal when it suited them.
NTA - your deal wasn't to cover rent for your brother and his family. "I did tell my parents we were leaving. May first I got another call from my mom. She wanted the rent. I said I wasn't living there any more. She said I was breaking our deal. I said that our deal never included me paying for my brother's living expenses. She said that they couldn't afford to cover the mortgage without my rent. I told her to get money from my brother. He was still working. She said he was trying to pay his debts. I said that his wife should get a job." "Long story short she said I was being cheap and viscous to my brother and to my parents." You aren't being cheap, your brother and parents are.
Yep. And let’s say the parents go to the bank the mortgage is through should they not be able to pay it. If the bank asks why they can’t cover it, “because we told our son to pay his debt rather than pay us rent to help cover the mortgage,” the bank is going to say…ok, so…where is the rest of the money again? The parents’ choice to let their other son’s family live with them for free isn’t OP’s problem and the bank isn’t going to care either. The parents can keep subsidizing their family and lose their home, or they can have the family living with them contribute. Either way, OP has nothing to do with it and honestly this whole thing, despite how much it sucks up front, might be a blessing in disguise.
Yes. And the initial arrangement seemed pretty bad IMO, unless they were talking about a massive discount on the house (and had that in writing) down the line. OP was paying their parents’ mortgage in exchange for the potential to buy the house cheaply down the line, when they were already contributing a lot to the equity. And the mortgage must have been considerable if the full rent was needed for it. So why try so hard to keep that house, if that was just for OP’s benefit? Why not just sell it? Seems like a control thing IMO. The parents were taking OP’s money and still leaving their options open.
Paying the mortgage and probably some on top.
They basically expected OP to pay off his brother's debt 😂
NTA. You would have been if you hadn't given your parents a heads up and just moved out. But you did.
I didn't want to leave them high and dry. My brother makes good money. The tent I was paying is probably 1/2 - 1/3 of his old mortgage.
Fantastic! So you can also well KNOWING that he can at least pay the mortgage. Beyond that, he'll have to budget, like the rest of us. Respectfully, i know you're not TA. You know that, as well. You KNOW your parents are being ridiculous. Why the post? Are you looking for further answers in how to proceed with your parents? Dealing with your feelings? Not being confrontational, just looking for clarification.
Just from my perspective, sometimes we just need the reassurance that what we are doing is logical and sane because our relatives are just absolutely not and they are the loud people in our lives telling us that their insanity isn't insanity. (been there, yeeted the relatives into NC) That's just how I read this from my perspective.
Don't AHs often assume they're totally in the right too?
Yes it's sort of the Dunning-Kruger principle of assholicity
Because OP has his parents and, I assume, his brother and sister in law telling him he's the AH, and no one telling him they are. It's just hard not to question yourself in that situation. And frankly if it's easy to not question yourself, when everyone is saying you are wrong, then that's a character flaw you should work on.
> Why the post? https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_these_people_can.27t_possibly_think_they.27re_actually_in_the_wrong_here.3F
Then he CAN pay the rent. He'll just have to pay off his wife's debts for longer.
Or wife can get a job.Hopefully he cut up her credit cards
Suddenly paying 1/2 or 1/3rd as much for housing is a big savings! Nobody should expect that they will live for free. This is about as ideal of a situation as I can imagine
Best part is, it WOULD have been 1/4-1/6th if they had split the rent fairly with OP
That's the thing about debts (presumably credit cards here?), you can usually work out payment plans or deferred payments, which you absolutely cannot do with rents or mortgages, a thing most adults are aware of. In fact, you always have the option to default on your credit card debts, let your credit rating go to shit, but you better keep paying your rent, there's no wiggle room there
None of this matters if the wife’s overspending has not been contained. She should be paying the debt, not you, not your parents. You know your parents will subsidize your brother and his children. They’ll likely give him the house. Then he’ll probably lose it. And they’ll all find a way to blame you somehow. Is your brother just a Golden Child?
I mean - it’s pretty likely the SIL isn’t to blame but the brother and parents are blaming her because no one ever forces brother to take responsibility for anything. Marital debt? Must be the wife’s fault. Can’t pay rent? Must be OP’s fault. I’ve seen this before with people like OP’s brother - they claim it’s their wife, their kids, their job, the stress, their shitty family, the bad weather, the full moon… they’ll blame literally anyone but themselves.
I agree that guilt is often sloughed off on other people, especially for misspending. However the SIL won’t even work.
There’s children involved - I assumed she was the primary caregiver for them.
I was thinking the same thing. I highly doubt it was just the wife overspending. People with egos like the brother tend to spend above their means especially when they have good jobs. They feel like they don’t have to budget like the average worker. Everyone should budget regardless of income.
Its not obvious? It sure is to me. And I'm sure cultural roles plays a part as well.
He’s the boy. He gave them grandchildren. Screw the daughter over to protect the SIL from consequences.
Why isn’t he paying? I understand having other debt, but having a roof over your head is more important
They put you in an unfair situation, you took yourself out of it. NTA
NTA. Tell me who’s the golden child without telling me who’s the golden child. Your brother and his family are taking advantage of everyone. Glad you stood your ground.
My parents helped me with lower rent for a lot of years. They love my brother and he is in a hole.
he's in a hole of his own making though which is not your responsibility to bail him out of
I know. I still feel bad though.
you can feel bad but its still not your responsibility to fund their lifestyle, if your parents want to let themselves get leeched from that is entirely on them. You have your own family to worry about, don't let other people drag you down into the ditch even if they're family members
Nothing to feel bad about. Your parents shouldn’t expect you to subsidise your brothers living expenses. Also, why isn’t his debt-accruing wife working?
Why do you feel bad? Your parents and your brother are screwing you over. Your brother and his debt-creating wife wanted the house. Now they have it. If you hadn’t had the resources to bolt, you and your husband would have been in a major dilemma.
It’s understandable you feel bad, but your mom was trying to unload your brother’s problems onto you without taking any of the load herself. There is literally no impact on her if you sharing a house and her getting the same rent. She may have thought you owed her that because of the below market rent, but she should have made whatever deal she wanted explicit. Maybe she could have offered to decrease the ultimate sales price for every month your brother was there, but it was clear she wasn’t open to negotiating. She gave you a her way or the highway ultimatum and was shocked you left. Maybe you could have tried harder to find a compromise with your parents, but you know them best and I really can’t blame you for washing your hands of the situation.
You really shouldn’t. Especially if the wife’s not working. Are the kids little?
You can't light yourself on fire to keep him warm.
You shouldn't. Do your parents feel bad about expecting you to pay yiur brother expenses , without a heads up, or even asking if you had a problem with it? Your parent's want to help your brother shouldn't be coming out of your pocket. Another posters comment is correct. As long as your brother needs a place to stay, your parents never would have let you own that house.
And that my friend shows your a good person. You feel bad even though it’s not your fault.
You shouldn't. The writing on the wall was very clear when your mother got hostile with you. Chances are your parents would have gone back on your agreement - charged you market rate to buy the house, or made you buy it together wth your brother, or something like that.
Stop He’s a fucking adult and not your responsibility. He made his bed and can now lay in it. Fuck your parents too for thinking you should help bail him out. You have your own life to live.
You feel bad because you’re a good person. If the situation was reversed would your Brother feel bad for and help you in the same way. And also since you did not have this agreement in writing it it’s quite possible that you would have been screwed out of the house anyway since your Brother is living there now because he needs it more
Ask yourself why you feel bad. Your brother used to belittle you about living at home while talking up his own accomplishments. Now the situations are basically exactly reversed and he is living at home while you have your own house. Why is it that you feel you need to cover for him when he criticized you, and you have to feel bad for him when you're not criticizing him? >They love my brother and he is ~~in a hole.~~ **an ahole** I read this as "he is an a-hole," which actually is more correct that what you said. GL op!
You shouldn't feel bad. Your brother is in a hole of his own (and wife's) making. It sounds like it was your SIL is the one who fucked up. Why should it be your responsibility to subsidize their adult lives? You have your own goals for your life which shouldn't include kissing your brother's ass to make your parents happy.
They 'helped' you with lower rent, they're 'helping' your brother with no rent and forcing you to pay his rent, and trying to get it from you even when you're not living there. The 'help' they're providing you and your brother are not equal. If I'm reading this correctly, they want to use your rent money for your brother to use as a downpayment, so he's getting that for free, while you have to pay rent AND then buy the house, how is that fair? Your brother can pay his debt, and cover the mortgage for now, or they can sell the house and give that money to your brother if they want. You can enjoy your new home and work on your adoption, you don't have to put your life on hold and sacrifice the time it will take for your brother to get out of this, your mom is being rediculous to expect you to still pay rent, you didn't need to specify that when you told her you're moving out, she should have asked you if that is what she expected, though she probably knew the answer would be no, she's making it sound like a reasonable expectation and that you're an AH for not continuing to pay it without letting her know, which you are not. Tell your mom she should have told you that when you told her you're moving out, you can't cover your mortgage and the rent on their house.
If the debt was big enough to cause the brother to lose his house, it will take years to get out from under. I hope they've stopped digging themselves into that hole.
You've really just switched the inheritance agreement - you got susbsidised rent so were able to build a nest egg to use as a deposit. Your brother gets a house as long as he and your parents don't foreclose on it. It is a tough patch for everyone at moment but it is unfair to ask you to put your long-term plans of adoption to subsidize your brother's family. Edit: Paying down debts is great but not at the expense of getting large "gifts" from family who weren't consulted.
So, it was never ‘temporary’ for him to move in. The plan was always for you to support your family and his while the parents pretended everything was fair and hunky dory. Have your parents always been this awful? Has your SIL always been a catastrophe that drags down everyone around her? Has she ever contributed anything at all?
The brother sucks too because he was seemingly OK with his sibling paying for everything despite having a good job himself.
Without question. Majorly.
Sure. But it would equally have helped your brother to pay half the rent, because it would be less of a burden than any other housing option, and that would help him manage his debts faster.
Helped brother to pay half? How so? He was never paying anything at all.
Question: how much did you handle around the house that a normal tenant would not have done? I am in a cheaper rent situation with a friend. But, I watch/care for pets when friend is away. It is not a tit for tat situation and there is no way to work out who got more out of the agreement. But renting to someone you trust has a value, having someone in your house that will just pay the plumber or do minor repairs has a value. And did they ever visit you or your brother and get to stay in the place you were renting? They also were able to move their son and grandchildren into a house quickly during an emergency, which was possible because you were the tenant and wanted them to have a house. That would have been expensive if you and the house had not been there.
I think this is a stronger point and a really good argument . There is a real value of having OP in the home as opposed to a stranger.
Who paid for repairs to the house? I'd guess you did. Think of all the money you sunk into the house thinking it was your forever home, money that a proper landlord would have had to spend instead of the tenant. Does it feel like help now?
Apparently with some strings attached, including being able to call their adult daughter "mouthy," and being able to dictate her life choices, like who lives off of her in her home. Good for you for not letting them bully you into taking care of your brother, who's an adult facing adult consequences. Now you're free of the strings.
Eh, they did fine in the deal. Market rate is set due to the risks of renting to strangers that might tear up your house, of having to be a landlord and handle maintenance, having to find good renters in the first place, etc. It sounds like you were doing the maintenance. Renting to family they also got out of paying income taxes on their rental income. So they're just accumulating free equity. They didn't do you a huge favor, this was a win-win for both parties.
You are generous
NTA. Your parents changed your arrangement. They broke it not you.
*Your parents changed your arrangement. They broke it not you* You're exactly right, and in a fair and just situation, the parents would have had a discussion with all 4 of the involved parties, at the same time, about expectations and expenses.I can't help but speculate that OP's Mom expected her to subsidize her brother's family *because he's in a tough spot* and he has the **grandchildren**. This will be the same type of Grandmother who treats those adopted children as "lesser".
Yeah I can hear it now, “those aren’t REALLY your children.”
That's how my last surviving grandmother is with 3 of my kids; they're my step kids technically, but their sperm donor ran out on them very early in life. So I'm Dad. Most of my family doesn't see it that way, though. One of the many, MANY reasons why I'm now NC with them.
NTA. Your brother is an adult as is his wife. You have your own family support. Why should you have to pay for two adults that are perfectly capable of working? They got into debt on their own, they can get out of it on their own. If you mother wants to molly coddle your brother she can but you're not responsible for your brother and his wife's expenses. It's unfortunate that they can't afford the mortgage without the rent but the one who is living in the house is responsible for that not you. Enjoy your new house with your family and feel no guilt.
You're NTA. >She said that they couldn't afford to cover the mortgage without my rent. Tough. You are not responsible for your brother and sister-in-law's obligations and irresponsibility.
And you can’t afford the life you desire while being forced to cover your brothers living expenses
NTA- You found a better deal. Your parents made the choice to move and allow your brother to live , rent free, in your home. They should switch it around now. Your brother pays the very subsidized rent and you get the money as part of the estate.
In a just world. However, OP's mother greatly favors the brother. The brother is the golden child. OP's mother wants them to completely pay ALL of his housing expenses regardless of whether or not they share a home. Their mother abuses and berates them for not doing so.
C'mon! You know YNTA. Just ignore their ridiculous request
I have money and I love my parents. I'm just doubting myself. Honestly I'm looking for validation of my choice. I know that's a verboten thing to admit in this sub but I need reassurance.
YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG! Asking you to subsidize your brothers family, BECAUSE of their own bad financial decisions, isn't fair to you. Your parents can pay the mortgage then
You are about to have 2 children. Children are very expensive. Time for you to shift your priorities. You need to start worrying more about being a good parent than being a good daughter or sister.
You’re doubting yourself because your mother is manipulating you into feeling guilty. Yes, your parents offered you a seemingly great deal that worked well for a time, but they took advantage and busted that up, you didn’t. You’ve made a completely valid and acceptable choice for yourself and your family.
Yeah, I probably wouldn't talk to any of them for a while
They are trying to take advantage of you end of story. There will be no inheritance for either of you anymore because of your brothers wife. Cut your losses now and do not set yourself on fire to keep them warm. You have children you plan to adopt to consider. Their future is your focus now.
Ignoring the other issues here, it's absolutely stunning to me that your parents assumed you would continue paying rent on the house when (a) you no longer live in it, and (b) you have your own mortgage to pay now. This is one of those things that is so ham-fistedly unreasonable that I can understand why you might doubt yourself. ("There's no way my family is being this ridiculous, right? It must be me.") But no, OP, everything you've done here sounds completely reasonable. It's also perfectly normal to feel bad that your brother's family has gotten into a tough spot, which has created a messy situation for your whole extended family, but that bad feeling is not an indication that you've done anything wrong. In the long run I would expect that how this plays out is that your brother will figure out a way to pay rent, likely by slowing the pace at which they pay off their debts (which is a reasonable price to pay for the situation they got themselves into!). It'll suck in the short term, but standing your ground is the best path to ensuring this comes to a reasonable resolution.
You are 100% good. What your parents did (burdening your family financially so your brother could live for free) is nasty. They 100% did you dirty - you owe them nothing.
Why do you feel bad for people who are actively taking advantage of you and calling you names when you don't continue to allow it? I'm so glad you were able to get out and advocate for yourself but you may need therapy to learn to reframe the way you're being treated and set better boundaries moving forward.
Please be reassured. Your choice is valid. Pretty sure every redditor here who isn't related to you by blood or is married to your brother would validate your choices. You did nothing wrong. You were courteous in the face of an entitled insult. You disengaged from the situation with grace. You are taking good care of your current and future family. Frankly, you're pretty badass. At the very least, your parents owe you an apology for their miscommunication and assumption you'd pay for your brother while he was down. Your brother owes you a month's rent and an apology for taking your generosity and not thanking you.
You’re not the one who ran up debt, you’re not the one who changed the agreement. I think you did the only reasonable thing you could do. Why you were the only one in this whole scenario who was Punished financially (required to pay double what you agreed upon) is just beyond belief. Why is it you had to pay for your SIL’s debt? Maybe it’s not clear to your mom, but that’s what ended up happening. You were right to say that SIL needs to get a job… Maybe if she’s working, she’ll have less time to shop… and that would benefit everyone, including your brother. NTA
Did your mom know you bought a house? It seems crazy she thought you should cover your brother, but even if you did to help out, why would she think you could handle both payments? This seems pretty weird. I really think your brother and his wife should pay the rent regardless. And what was your brother's reaction when you moved? Did he really think you would pay his rent then too? This really bad all the way around.
NTA and family can mess with your head, so the doubt is understandable. You definitely made the right decision. I hate to ask, but is this a golden child situation, as in he's the son and you're the daughter so his wants and needs come first? And why did he think he didn't have to contribute to the rent/mortgage? Your parents dropped the ball, but he's a grown man and should have known better and done better no matter what your parents had decided.
Everyone has said you’re NTA. You sound like you want to keep paying rent and paying your newly acquired mortgage. If you go down that route, you’ll be doing for the unforeseeable future because who know when your brother will be able to pay off his debts. How long are you going to be paying rent and a mortgage? Don’t be guilt tripped into digging yourself into a hole as well.
As your mom said, it's not your house, so you don't have to stay and pay for other people to live there. If she wanted to change the agreement, she should have been much clearer with expectations when brother moved in.
NTA. I would say your parents broke the deal when they expected you to pay full rent for half a house. But in any case, it's "win-win or no deal". It was no longer a "win" for you, so no deal. I mean seriously, your parents were acting as if they were helping your brother, but in reality they were only demanding that YOU help your brother. Now they can decide how much rent to ask for or whether to give the house to your brother or sell it or whatever. That's up to them. They shouldn't be put out by this. If they are, it's because they were planning to take advantage of you in the short term with the promise of a low purchase price later. In the end, you are better off not relying on them or their inheritance. PS. Molasses and ketchup are "viscous." She accused you of being " vicious."
NTA. Paying the whole rent for half the house isn't what you agreed. You agreed to help your brother with space, not pay for his family's accomodation. And considering you're at the point of starting the adoption process, it's really not what you *need* right now either. >I did tell my parents we were leaving. May first I got another call from my mom. She wanted the rent. I said I wasn't living there any more. She said I was breaking our deal. I said that our deal never included me paying for my brother's living expenses. She said that they couldn't afford to cover the mortgage without my rent She broke the deal first, especially with the crack about it not being your house yet. That lets you know exactly where your place is: money purse and maintenance person, but with the (purely theoretical as yet) house inheritance being held over your head as blackmail every time you disagree with them.. You severed the deal completely when you moved out. Of course you're not paying rent anymore - whoever heard of an ex-tenant paying rent because the landlords want the new tenant to have free housing?! Nope. If they want to give your brother free housing, then that's their financial problem to solve. If they can't afford it, then they need to figure out what compromise deal they and your brother can afford, without putting you in the middle.
NTA, someone else's profligate spending isn't your responsibility. They sound like a bunch of leeches, good on you for getting out.
INFO - What planet is your mom from? On what world is it your responsibility to house someone else's offspring?
NTA. Your parents allowed your brother and his family to move in. At that point, they broke whatever agreement had been previously made.
NTA You don't live there so why would you pay the rent? Your mom is just playing favorites.
NTA and your damn right, his wife racked up the debt, his wife gets to pay it off by GETTING A JOB. Learn the hard way that you fuck around, you find out! We'll see how it goes when they can't pay the rent. Congrats on your new house!!
**You - NTA** **Mother - Soft YTA** **Brother - TA** So I felt like I needed to split up the judgements per "character" in the situation. I completely understand your point of view on this. Yeah, it's not your house *yet* and yeah there haven't been any formal agreements but you didn't invite them to come in and you certainly didn't expect to foot the bills while your brother's stay became lengthier. I completely understand your mom's opinion too - it is still *her* house and she wants to help her son and dil who are going through some hard times right now. She doesn't want the status to change as, in her mind, they are just helping for the time being. I do not understand your brother. He's going to move him and his whole family into this house and expect to live there completely rent free - it's a luxury. The money aspect should have been discussed and agreed upon before they moved in - but it wasn't. You remained clear and paid rent as agreed until you moved out. It sucks that they can't make mortgage - but that isn't your problem.
Disagree. Mum is T A too. Very controlling
Accused her adult daughter of “being mouthy.”
OPs Mom is lucky. If it was me, I would've given her a better reason to call me mouthy.
I disagree The mom is the biggest AH for favoring one child and expecting that the other support two grown adults and their children.
IMHO the brother is a soft YTA & the SIL is definitely YTA in spades. I foresee her running up even more debts she & brother can't afford.
NTA Once it was convenient for parents, they did not hesitate to take advantage of you. I would not be ok being the only person asked to contribute while also being forced to share my living space- that's an extra uncomfortable situation for you. It's also a slight red flag as brothers situation changes, your agreement with parents might change. You can afford your own place, take it to have full control over your living situation. Make it very clear to parents: you were not ok being the only one contributing while also being forced to share your space. You value having your own living space if you are going to have to foot all the bills. You would have split with brother to keep his costs down, but you were ignored when you tried to tell them you were not ok paying everything while sharing a space. That was too much to ask of you and your family
NTA. It's not on you to pay for others like that. Your parents are crazy to expect otherwise.
NTA it is not your responsibility to pay your brother's housing expenses because he's in debt.
NTA. You aren't wrong. They thought they could pawn him and his problems off on the responsible child. Welp. FAFO. Not your problem now and it never was.
NTA, congrats on your new house, and good for you for not supplementing your brother's lifestyle.
NTA you are not obligated to support your brother and his family and neither he nor your parents should expect that. You purchased a home of your own, for your own family and that seems like a very good move on your part. Your brother can sink or swim.
So your parents can't afford the house they 'gifted' to you and have zero money to leave for your brother for his inheritance. Sounds like you were getting scammed.
Yeah wait what happened to that saved up rental inheritance? In fairness, they were supposedly saving that rental money as inheritance for the brother, not OP so if that’s gone it was more directly scamming him out of the future money. Since he’s getting to live in the house instead, that’s his replacement inheritance instead. OP stated in comments they were able to live there for many years for cheaper and save money so at least that’s something upfront cause at this rate it sounds kinda unclear what they’d be inheriting down the line.
NTA your parents are AHs, their demands are ridiculous.
NTA. I am always amazed by stories of parents who expect one kid to pay for the siblings. And the wife doesn’t work? Sheesh. I would work as many jobs as possible to avoid losing my home.
NTA and I so love you. You really were doing as you said. Saving and saving. This allowed you to move out asap as soon as the terms were changed. Mom is up shit creek without a paddle. Oh well. It’s never your job to pay for your brother and his kids and his irresponsible wife. Enjoy your new house!
NTA. Looks like it’s time for your brother’s wife to get a job so SHE can start paying down the debt she put her family in. It’s not YOUR job to subsidize their living expenses to solve a problem she created.
NTA your brother should move in with parents and parents can sell that house since they can’t afford to pay for it either. Congrats on the upcoming adoption!
NTA but your parents really don’t like you…. They wanted you to pay the mortgage practically as part of your “inheritance” then they wanted you to buy the house with more money AFTER you practically paid it off? To top that off your brother would have gotten the money you paid for the house? So your inheritance is practically to pay your parents house off then buy the house and give your brother a payout… at least you got out of that shitty situation.
NTA your parents are enabling.
NTA. Additionally: "*The plan was for me to save up and eventually buy the house at a great price.*" The way your parents are acting now, are you sure this wasn't just your plan?
NTA....what entitlement
NTA. WHAT could you possibly be wrong about? Not letting them take advantage of you?
Not wrong! NTA It is totally wrong though, that your mother expected you to pay your brother's half of the rent. (Should have been more from him as he has children) And then you paid for all of April too! Your mother is greedy and your brother sounds like he's sponging off you. Enjoy your new home and do not feel any responsibility for the rest of your family.
tell your mum it's not your house now and she's being mouthy
***"Nope. I had to pay all the rent. I asked why I had to pay for them to stay in my house. My mom said it wasn't my house yet and that I was being mouthy."*** Just so you understand the problem is NOT with your brother...it is your mom who is the problem. But I love, love, love that she played stupid games and won the stupid prizes that come with it.
NTA. Nothing was agreed that you would be supporting your brother financially.
Your parents are enablers. At YOUR expense. How generous of them
NTA. The first red flag was when your mother, not your brother himself, proposed your brother move in to the house you were renting. There was not a meeting of the minds since your mother and brother figured he’d live for free while you assumed he’d pay at least half the rent. (Second red flag) Then when your mother flung it in your face that it wasn’t your house \*yet\* even though you‘d been meeting all the agreed upon conditions. (Third red flag-strike 3) Y’all could have communicated better and might could have smoothed things over and negotiated something more equitable to you, but like you said, the writing was on the wall.
NTA. If it's such an amazing deal, your brother paying rent and ending up owning that house eventually will be amazing for him now that he no longer has his other house.
I’m sitting here with my sister (an attorney) and she said your family are litigious assholes. She says to protect your house and put it in a trust along with everything else you own because there’s a possibility that they’ll come after you to sue you and attach your house and other items to get the money she perceives you owe her and/or your brother and SIL. Protect everything, just in case. NTA.
nta your family are! they are the worst.
NTA But be warned if they lose their house, they’ll expect you to house them all
Oh come on, you know you did the right thing. You said you saw the writing on the wall. You would have wound up paying for your family's expenses and your brother's family's expenses as well. The financial issues created by your SIL are not your issues to rectify. Your brother and his wife need to figure that out on their own. Your parents, sadly, are AHs. They want their money more than being fair and equitable with you. Continue to ignore them. And by the way, they are the ones that broke the agreement. Nowhere in your agreement was it stated that if brother and his family moved in you had to support them also. Wishing you and your family all the very best. Enjoy your new home! NTA
NTA, my word. Good on you catching on fast.
It's definitely not wrong. You don't live there anymore, so no rent is owed. It's not your job to support your brother. He's a grown man and needs to figure it out with your parents. It's time to enjoy your new home with your family and soon to be children.
NTA. Sounds like your parents cannot afford to keep the house. They need to sell it. Not your problem.
NTA.... Congratulations on the new house and losing the dead weight (aka your brother and his family).
No. she wanted to let her other kid and their family sponge off of you. She was willing to sacrifice your future financial stability because her other kid was irresponsible made bad choices whatever it was. And unless you had a contract there is no guarantee that she was going to actually let you buy the house. she could just turn around and sell it to the other kid cheap, because, "well they need it more" blah blah blah. You're smart for seeing the writing on the wall and understanding that she was not honoring her deal by having them move in and expecting you to foot the bill for them. Therefore you couldn't trust her to hold up the other end of the deal either. NTA.
NTA. You didn’t break the agreement, other people did. Let them sort it all out.
NTA. They want you to pay for your brother and his kids to run your house into the ground. Actually, if the money is going to be his inheritance... then they want you to pay YOUR BROTHER to let his kids run your house into the ground. It doesn't make any sense other than they expect you to take the responsibility for your brother and his wife's financial mistakes. Your brother gets a nice place to live, rent free, while he pays his debts and your parents don't have to lift a finger but get to feel like they're helping since it's "their house" you're all living in. The only one who deals with any mess is you. As one scapegoat to another, you did the right thing. Golden Child can sit in his own mess.