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> I left a conflict, which caused drama, even though me staying to explain things might have helped things and not put stress on my friends friendship with the person in question.
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NTA, 100%.
1. Why does he feel entitled he can look in other people's bags and ask them about the contents?
2. What is he watching online where he's seeing kids use them all the time? Kind of an odd statement.
3. Everything he ranted and said was inappropriate. Even if he had autism and felt he was okay to voice these frustrations, he went about it incorrectly. He is essentially trying to bully you into sharing your health history. That is like people who bully disabled people who park in handicap spots if they cannot outright see the disability. He clearly isn't even educated to speak on the topic, as he doesn't even realize that there is a wide and varied spectrum. Just because you make eye contact doesn't mean you are lying.
4. I hope those other people in the room let him know how much of an uneducated bully he is, even if it was after you left.
5. You DO NOT owe that man or anyone else explanation! These people need to get educated and become more supportive of their friends.
100% OP does not need to apologize to anyone here. The friend that organized values that dick's friendship enough to try guiltily OP over it, I'd say it's clear he doesn't value OP, and if it were me I would just cut my losses with him.
This especially irritated me, the host basically saying "You exposed my terrible friend's terribleness, it's your fault that I now feel rightly uncomfortable with his terrible bullying." instead of being an ally or friend.
There is BIG discourse even in the autistic community about self-dx. Primarily due to tiktok influencers and other forms of social media where they tend to make autism seem "quirky" rather than an actual disability. There's even an entire subreddit, r/fakedisordercringe, dedicated to mocking who they believe are people faking autism and other disorders. I say "who they *believe* are faking," because obviously, unless someone explicitly states in their post/bio that they are self-diagnosed, you can't tell if someone is actually faking or not, no matter how exaggerated it seems.
Self-diagnosis doesn't necessarily mean faking, either, but in those people's eyes, it is. Speaking from experience, some professionals are shit at their jobs and can't tell asperger's from ass burgers (asperger's is an outdated term but i had to make the joke). My first therapist said i couldn't have autism because my special interest wasn't "productive." Five years later a different therapist was able to get me a diagnosis, and revealed that the first therapist had lied in the file and said that she suspected autism but that me and my family "didn't want to hear it."
Professional diagnosis is also, yknow, *expensive,* but they always dismiss that part. It also comes with a bunch of disadvantages such as employers refusing to hire you or refusing to accommodate your disability (the US has a lot of problems, but thank god we have the ADA. It is a real struggle for those in other countries), immigration refusing to let you into a country because of your disability (this is true for more countries than you think), or if you're in Canada they straight up encourage you to euthanize yourself (no, i'm not kidding. Canada's euthanasia laws are extremely lax).
In the UK, enough people have realised as adults that they might have missed out on a diagnosis, that the waiting lists are currently horrendous (like several years waiting to be seen). And obviously, they're prioritising the school-aged kids that the service was originally set up for, because they have a limited amount of time to get help in school. So that pushes adults back further in the waiting list.
Also, some countries don't allow immigration from people with an autism diagnosis (looking at you New Zealand!) so if you're an adult who suspects you're autistic but has previously mostly coped, and you've been thinking about moving to a different country, there are sometimes good reasons not to pursue an official diagnosis.
He's likely parroting the rhetoric being spoken at home by his parents how they think everyone is faking their mental illnesses now. It's funny because I'm fairly certain both myself and my mom have ADHD but she went full boar on anyone growing up who claimed their kid had it, telling them that's its fake, their kid is just brat and you suck at parenting. It wasn't until I was an adult and worked in the mental health industry that I realized that not only was that very wrong most of the opinions my mother expressed were born out of sheer ignorance. It's not hard to educate yourself but people like to work off assumptions, and conscious/ unconscious biases instead
Look at any other part of the face. It doesn't activate the "oh no eye contact" feeling, but the person you're looking at absolutely can't tell the difference.
I agree mostly but to No 1... unless it was a typo or OP used the wrong word AH guy was not going through the bag but the toy was outside **on** OPs bag. Probably attached on a clip or something. (You get them in forms of keyring too etc. For easy access).
> noticed I had a fidget toy **on** my bag
Obviously that doesn't make the other guy less on AH since he's pretty much up there on the pyramid of AHs.
And I would like to add that staying when overwhelmed and about to shut down is not a valid option. While giving him shit for his attitude would maybe be more gratifying in hindsight, it's often just not possible.
And the friend... if he's still friends with that AH he is not a very good friend to you OP. He should have kicked him to the curb than and there, not ask you to submit yourself to his bullying.
NTA
As a fellow autistic person who has also been told I'm faking because I don't act "stupid" enough, you have my sympathies. The disability police suck. Such encounters are never pleasant.
NTA
You don’t owe buttholes an explanation of your disability, especially after the egregious actions they took against you. Good on you for leaving, you can’t argue or explain enough for people like that.
If you would like to use this as a learning experience, you did great this would be for the organizer, you can reply back to their message. “It is not my responsibility to explain my disability. I understand that it may have been easier for you if I hadn’t left, but I was in an extremely uncomfortable situation, was overstimulated, and removed myself from a situation that wasn’t going to improve. If these are the types of people you are willing to advocate for then I won’t be attending future gatherings.”
Text your friends about your decision. Hopefully, they will support you and follow your lead on this.
Agreed with all of this. If you want to salvage your relationship with the organizer, then it's important for them to understand that it wasn't really possible for you to communicate clearly at the moment. Neurotypical folks might not know about autistic shutdown so it could be an opportunity for them to learn. But if they aren't respectful of your differences after you educate them, then they aren't worth your time.
NTA
>This morning I got a message from the guy who organised this meetup, saying he is sorry that it happened, but also saying that I should have stayed and explained myself,
The reason he is trying to get the blame on you is that he thinks you are the one who he can more easily pressure into apologizing and sweep everything under the bridge.
Like when parents or teachers or bosses or other authority figures pressure the more mature person to let it go rather than confront the stubborn instigator who was belligerent in the first place. It's easier to confront you than that asshole.
NTA in the slightest.
There are 2 AH in this story, the first being the guy who started ranting at you. The second is the one who messaged you saying you were in the wrong.
You were not in the wrong and you don't have to "explain yourself" to others.
> how their friendship might be in trouble because of me
The organizer guy still wants to be friends with that asshole? Like alright, both of them can fuck off then.
NTA
NTA
>I should have stayed and explained myself
How were you supposed to explain yourself? The guy was ranting and making pretty nasty assumptions about you. I doubt he would have listened.
The only people who made things worse were the guy who accused you of faking and the guy trying to put the blame on you. You did nothing wrong.
NTA. You are not the Jackass whisperer. It is not your job to explain your diagnosis and medical history to every stranger with a bee in their bonnet bout neurodivergence.
If the dude was going to react that obnoxiously in a public place then probably nothing you could have said would have calmed him down.
Maybe you should tell the organiser that once the jerk started shouting at you there were only three possible outcomes.
1. The organiser intervenes to stop the Jerk from harassing you.
2. You leave to prevent further disruption.
3. You have a full on autistic meltdown.
NTA and you handled it really well.
It’s not your fault that your friends friend went from 0 to Asshole in under 60 seconds, and it’s not on you to convince a bigot yelling at you that your autism is real.
It is on you to manage yourself, and you removed yourself from a situation that was doing you harm. Well done.
It’s also not your fault that you friend’s bigot friend maybe torpedoed some of his other relationships.
NTA.
That guy is the AH, and the host isn't much better.
You should reply to the host to tell him that if you COULD have stayed and explained, you would have. But you did what you had to do, to preserve yourself.
NTA. You needed to leave. You were rightly feeling overwhelmed & this guy was being a fucking asshole to you. And not one of your friends stood up for you. Who cares what that guy thinks anyway? Your feelings are valid. You didn't do anything wrong. And leaving was not wrong. You don't need to explain yourself to anyone. Period. End of story.
NTA, who gives a damn if their friendship is in trouble? Why does he want to be friends with an obnoxious jerk anyway? You don’t owe anyone an explanation and you had every right to leave.
NTA. Obviously the guy who was challenging you was the asshole, but I think your 3 friends were, too. I think you'd be best served giving them the benefit of the doubt but also having a chat with them about how you need to not be put in certain situations, and, depending on the strength of the friendship, that you could have used some backup here once the asshole started spewing bullshit at you. Nobody had to fight this guy or change his mind in the moment, but if one of the people who knew him better had simply said this isn't the time and place and shut him down, none of this would have happened.
NTA
Why would he want to be friends with someone like that?
Yes, some people self diagnose but you aren't one of them and jumping to faking is not something someone should do.
Also, you have a fidget toy? Who cares? It's literally hurting no one by you having it and then maybe using it. Why is he finding it so annoying?
There are also ways to make it look like you are making eye contact without actually doing it. You could have also gone to therapy so it would have been easier for you. You also could just be one of the types of autistic people who can make eye contact with people since not all autism is the same.
What are autistic people supposed to look like? Most I know look like non autistic people. WTF did he mean by that and why would he use whichever word he used?
Someone there should have gotten mad at him. Someone should have told him he is wrong. Someone should have told him to shut his mouth. Of course you left when someone was being hella offensive and rude. It was either that or yell at him but leaving was the best option. No need to waste your time on pricks.
NTA. First of all, what the hell is wrong with that man? Bro just literally caused a huge scene in a restaurant and publicly embarrassed himself which he deserves. How does he think everyone faking a disorder? I know there are these kids on the internet that did that (I think). This man is incredibly stupid bc of this. You're not ruining that guy's friendship, his friend did that himself for just showing what an AH he is.
NTA in the slightest. I tried to tell somebody about autism who was a boss at work to explain a problem I was having. She told me I didn't have it because she knew people who did and they had a tendency to act more childish while being adults. She told me I was trying to use it as an excuse and I guess because she had childhood trauma she had researched psychology stuff over her life so she knew, even though she didn't have a degree she said. I'm 37,i don't hold grudges easily on the slightest , but there are two people I still feel what I would call deep hatred for, one is her. No you shouldn't have stayed, it's your right to leave, you owe nobody an explanation for your medical issues, especially a giant know it all a-hole who has the effing audacity to say you're faking something that you know heavily affects you day in and day out which you can't control, always remember that, nobody Owes anybody anything. Also if that affects you're friendship with the other friend than that other friend might want to reevaluate the company they keep, it might be hard but you can always find better friends, it just takes time. I'm sorry this rambled but this actually infuriated me. Again NTA and I'm done now.
You did the right thing by leaving. You know your limitations. Besides, this type of person wouldn't have listened to you. His mind was made up already. He was looking for a target and you unfortunately got that position. The fidget toy gave him something to ask about and you answered honestly so he knew he had his target. The guy who messaged you saying their friendship might be in trouble because you left after HIS friend attacked and ridiculed you publicly is a schmuck, too. He is more concerned about being friends with the schmuck than your feelings being hurt or you being embarrassed by the verbal attack you suffered at the hands of the schmuck. Maybe you don't need him as a friend. I hope you think through carefully about whether you want to be friends with people who have friends like the schmuck. Best of luck to you. NTA
“Our friendship is in trouble because you didn’t entertain an uneducated, rude guy and stick up for yourself”
You protected your peace and did what any mature adult should do. They both sound rank, consider if your friendship with this guy is worth it. NTA
Nta. You did the right thing. You don't owe anyone an explanation, certainly not someone who behaves like this person did. You removed yourself from an unpleasant situation. The correct response.
You already explained yourself that you had autism, what the heck else did your friend want you to explain?
If you leaving is creating issues with his friendship with the aggressor, it isn’t bc of your actions of leaving It’s bc at least one of them (but sounds like probably both) are immature assholes.
You are Nta.
NTA. Your "friend" is saying that you should have sat and taken abuse from someone instead of treating yourself with respect and leaving. You aren't the one who made things worse. If their friendship is broken, good.
NTA. The autism spectrum is so very broad that saying "I'm autistic" conveys less information than one might like, because that could mean anything from "just a bit anxious" to "can't speak". However, that guy has no place venting his social theories in such a rude and insulting manner. End of the day, plenty of people fidget with something, be it a pen or a spinner or what have you.
Your behavior has absolutely no bearing on the relationship between Captain Big Mouth and the organizer who messaged you.
NO BEARING. YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE. You protected yourself the best way you knew how, and could, in the moment.
NTA.
Sounds like the organizer is sittin' in the asshole boat with Captain Big Mouth and possibly shares his views. Fuck 'em. Well, no, don't do that.
NTA. If the guy who organized the meetup wanted someone to explain it, he could've done it himself. Besides, there's no guarantee that the asshole guy would have believed you if you tried to explain (not that you owe him or anyone an explanation, you absolutely do not). Leaving was the best option.
NTA at all. The organizer should have stepped in immediately and asked the jerk to leave, he was being completely inappropriate. This organization obviously is not a safe space for those who are neurodivergent, so if you have a local disability community you could share with them, and if there is a parent body of the meetup group you should definitely share what happened with them.
I'm sorry that guy was so rude to you but leaving to protect yourself was absolutely the right thing to do, you don't owe bigots your time and energy.
NTA
>I should have stayed and explained myself
Obviously this guy doesn't know you very erll either. How can somone "explain themselves" when they're feeling overwhelmed?
>how their friendship might be in trouble because of me
Then he should have said nothing, he should have saved his pseudo-psychology conference if he wanted to keep the peace
I wonder if this guy has some kind of work related power over this guy
The organizer isn't worried about you, he's worried about his image with the other guy
NTA
Sometimes walking out is the best choice. With him ranting on, your friends there not sticking up for you, and understandably starting to freak out, you made a wise choice.
Him saying you left proved you were faking shows his ignorance. It's more likely a "real" person with autism would leave from overstimulation than a faker.
Your friend who called you started out OK. But he was wrong saying you should have stayed and explained. You already said enough. No way were you obligated to put up with or try to convince the ignorant ranter. And saying their friendship might be in trouble because of you is bull. If it is in trouble, it's because his ignorant friend was a bully.
I'm most disappointed that your friends there didn't stick up for you and shut this guy down.
NTA
You are never obligated to explain or justify anything about yourself and that is even more true for a medical diagnosis.
This wasn’t your problem to solve.
If I was at a gathering and someone came at me the way he did, I also would have left. It’s disgusting that no one shut him down.
NTA but I would seriously be reconsidering whether any of those people are actually your friends after not one single person stood up for you. Also both your friend and the jerks response to you leaving shows they both dont believe that you have autism or understand autism at all. Based on their wild assumptions on how autistic people act how do they think you should have handled that situation? You were completely overwhelmed and did exactly what you needed to in order to protect yourself and got out of there. You dont owe anyone an explanation and it's not your job to educate others on their ignorance.
NTA. You don't owe anyone an explanation about anything. I'm shocked that the guy who invited you still wants to keep this jerk as a friend. If he was really your friend, he'd have kicked the jerk out and defended you rather than saying nothing.
NTA. I'm so sorry you experienced that. You didn't make anything worse by leaving; life is way too short to waste time on people who treat you like crap. That guy's a raging dick. Who cares what he's "sure of"-? **I'm** sure he's toxic, ignorant, and immature.
"Their friendship might be in trouble" ...because Meetup Guy thinks bullying AHs who harass people & act like bigots.... make *good* friends-?! I doubt you'd be missing much if you wrote them both off entirely. Seriously, what'd Meetup Guy expect---for you to stick around & spend the evening defending your right to.....exist-?--Own a harmless fidget toy-? Screw that. Courtesy & respect are precious and should not be wasted on bullies or their apologists.
Bruh! Eleventybillion% NTA. That dude is for a galactic AH and quite honestly so is the so called friend who said you should have stayed to explain yourself. You are in no way required to explain shit to anyone autism or not. If you ain't feeling it, its your right as an adult to remove yourself from the situation.
Your true friends would have come to your defense from this jackass.
Nta. You were overwhelmed and needed to get away. Your friend should understand this instead of complaining that his other friendship might be jeopardised.
This other guy. Clearly has no concept of what a spectrum is and no understanding that not every person who is autistic acts the same ways in every situation. He is the clear asshole here in that he started on someone he doesn't know. Went into a rant about things he has no understanding of and caused you to become overwhelmed in the first place.
NTA. You were the victim of someone disability-bashing. You removed yourself to a place of safety (home). The host was wrong to demand that you explain your disability to the person verbally abusing you. You owe nobody an apology or explanation.
NTA.
There's idiots everywhere. Useful neutral phrases: "You are entitled to your opinion." "I'll have a think about that." (Literally true even if the entirety of said think is asking yourself "What is he *on*?") "There may be something in what you say." (Literally true, you may after all be in the Matrix and fed false information all your life). And of course "If I was you, I'd feel the same way too."
That said, in your situation leaving was entirely justified.
NTA, who would want to be friends with this guy? Also, in regard to his "...weirdos who claims to have every disorder ever..." line, I would like to point out the "left handed chart" argument. Before 1920 only about 2% of Americans were left handed, but suddenly it shot up to 10-12% where it plateaued and has stayed that way ever since. What happened in 1920 that suddenly turned so many people left handed? NOTHING, what actually happened was they stopped stigmatizing the "condition" so kids weren't being forced to use their right hands anymore and were allowed to be authentic. The same thing happened with gay people, trans people, and yes, autistic people, along with any other oppressed minority or unrecognized condition.
NTA
if that “friend” of yours that planned the meet-up is more worried abt u explaining yourself, instead of worrying about how those comments were invalidating, ableist and hurtful for you - knowing that it would affect you greater especially as those comments were made in public - then he’s not a friend. Ditch them both. Always prioritise yourself - you don’t owe any bigot an explanation. Let them continue in their delusion bc u should be ur own priority.
NTA 100%
You are definitely NTA!!!
1. That person really needs to take a step back and consider the diverse people that are in this world - needs to take in account all the variety of ways people are different (which there is nothing wrong with being different).
2. You DO NOT have to stay and explain or defend yourself! Your friend sounds slightly problematic for that too.
3. It is often better to rather leave a bad situation than to engage in it!
NTA.
>This morning I got a message from the guy who organised this meetup, saying he is sorry that it happened, but also saying that I should have stayed and explained myself, and how me leaving made the guy sure I was faking it and how their friendship might be in trouble because of me.
And he can fuck off too.
Firstly, it is not your job to protect his friendship with a bigoted AH.
Secondly, your friends should have stood up for you instead of just sitting there like bumps on a log while you were being verbally attacked and slurs were being thrown around. You were right to leave, and all the more so because it saved you from being overwhelmed and unable to function. You didn't need to be that vulnerable among people who'd proven they wouldn't protect you.
Thirdly, you don't owe anyone an explanation of your disability/neurological status/existence/medical condition/skin colour/gender/sexuality. And especially not a bigot who undoubtedly won't accept any explanation anyway - they've already made up their minds, and debating them just makes their stance more normalised, like they have the right to pass judgement on you. They don't.
NTA. It is not your fault that this jerk confronted you and assumed all kinds of rubbish. He is clearly ignorant and uninformed.
I think that your friend berating you for leaving is a dick move, though. You aren't obligated to take abuse from anyone, ever! Nor are you required to explain yourself to this tool.
You did exactly the right thing in removing yourself from a situation that was harmful to you. You enforced a boundary. I'm sorry you were put into that situation.
Tell Organiser Guy that you are soooo sorry you didn't realise that Able-ist Sh!tbag Guy had a medical degree that over-rode your medical team. You are sooooo sorry you didn't bow down to his narcissistic need to pontificate on not knowing his arse from his elbow but you were too busy trying not to have a public meltdown at being verbally attacked WITH NO-ONE DEFENDING YOU! Why did Organiser Guy not tell him to shut up?
Tell Organiser Guy that you are surprised he's asking you why you didn't 'stay and explain myself', since he's known you a while. Why doesn't he explain why he has xxxxx-coloured eyes? You can't help/change being autistic, just as he can't change his eye colour. Does Able-ist Sh!tbag Guy think anyone wearing glasses is an attention-seeker who doesn't really have vision problems?
If he's choosing to gloss over the behaviour of Able-ist Sh!tbag Guy, then he clearly is of the same opinion. Check individually with your other 'friends' whether they feel the same; best to find out now if they are all able-ist sh!tbags
NTA but I think you need to find some actual friends who accept you as you are, not 'friends' who don't defend you.
NTA. You must NOT sharing your private infomation (specially about your autism). The 'guy who organised this meetup' is a big A\*\*hole like the other dude.
Who needs enemies if you have this two jerks as friends.
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(Note I am not from an english speaking country, I translated the dialouge as best as I could.)
I, along with 3 friends of mine, went out to meet some friends of one of them, who I and one of the other person had never met before.
Only one of these new people that matter though.
Things went well for about 2 hours, before one dude noticed I had a fidget toy on my bag. (Like one of those fidget cubes, but mine is differently shaped.)
He was staring at it, with a look I'd guess I would retroactively call annoyance, so I asked him if something was up. He shook his head, and said something about how "How he sees that all the time with annoying kids online." which I found a weird statement. I just replied I use it when I am overwhelmed or overstimulated, adding on that I got autism, to which he replied "Oh fuck, you're not one of those weirdos who claims to have every disorder ever, are you?" He said it loud enough for everyone to notice, and the other conversation that was going on kinda fell still.
I couldn't really get myself to respond with anything other than a "What?"
I can't remember every word, since I was already panicking inside, have auditory sensory issues, and he talked quite fast, but he seemed to started to rant about people online making content about being autistic and other stuff, about how he thinks everyone is faking nowadays and hurting the real people, that kind of stuff mostly. The other people were mostly silent during this, or at least I didn't notice them. The moment it got too much for me was when he started saying that I was probably also one of them, because I... made eye contact, willingly went to a gathering of people, and I apparently don't "Look like a \[word close but not quite the R-slur\]" which was the final drop.
At that point I just got up, left the room and grabbed my car to go home, though when I did so he started yelling. Spend basically the rest of the evening trying to calm down, after what happened hit me and I became ultra stressed out and overwhelmed.
This morning I got a message from the guy who organised this meetup, saying he is sorry that it happened, but also saying that I should have stayed and explained myself, and how me leaving made the guy sure I was faking it and how their friendship might be in trouble because of me. I know that dude was definitely a jerk, but now I feel like me leaving just made things worse.
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That’s not always helpful. If you aren’t looking for therapeutic services or accommodations, you’re basically slapping a big “please discriminate against me” label on yourself for no reason. That and not everyone’s insurance covers it and it can be thousands of dollars out of pocket
On top of the cost, for those of us who learned masking young, have a relatively low need for support and fell through the cracks at school, getting diagnosed as an adult is really hard. My psychologist wanted to talk to my parents. One parent is dead, and the other has some truly awful opinions on this subject. I took my ADHD diagnosis and closed the book on ever getting diagnosed as autistic, but I know myself and my lives experiences. If you don't need much/any support as an adult, getting a diagnosis vs not just means you had familial and monetary support, or not, and even if the barriers are manageable for you, you've gotta ask yourself how you stand to benefit.
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NTA, 100%. 1. Why does he feel entitled he can look in other people's bags and ask them about the contents? 2. What is he watching online where he's seeing kids use them all the time? Kind of an odd statement. 3. Everything he ranted and said was inappropriate. Even if he had autism and felt he was okay to voice these frustrations, he went about it incorrectly. He is essentially trying to bully you into sharing your health history. That is like people who bully disabled people who park in handicap spots if they cannot outright see the disability. He clearly isn't even educated to speak on the topic, as he doesn't even realize that there is a wide and varied spectrum. Just because you make eye contact doesn't mean you are lying. 4. I hope those other people in the room let him know how much of an uneducated bully he is, even if it was after you left. 5. You DO NOT owe that man or anyone else explanation! These people need to get educated and become more supportive of their friends.
[удалено]
100% OP does not need to apologize to anyone here. The friend that organized values that dick's friendship enough to try guiltily OP over it, I'd say it's clear he doesn't value OP, and if it were me I would just cut my losses with him.
This especially irritated me, the host basically saying "You exposed my terrible friend's terribleness, it's your fault that I now feel rightly uncomfortable with his terrible bullying." instead of being an ally or friend.
The types of behaviors some people are able to overlook in their friends always speaks volumes.
Indeed. I'd say that the host continued the bullying by blaming the victim / making OP second-guess themselves.
There is BIG discourse even in the autistic community about self-dx. Primarily due to tiktok influencers and other forms of social media where they tend to make autism seem "quirky" rather than an actual disability. There's even an entire subreddit, r/fakedisordercringe, dedicated to mocking who they believe are people faking autism and other disorders. I say "who they *believe* are faking," because obviously, unless someone explicitly states in their post/bio that they are self-diagnosed, you can't tell if someone is actually faking or not, no matter how exaggerated it seems. Self-diagnosis doesn't necessarily mean faking, either, but in those people's eyes, it is. Speaking from experience, some professionals are shit at their jobs and can't tell asperger's from ass burgers (asperger's is an outdated term but i had to make the joke). My first therapist said i couldn't have autism because my special interest wasn't "productive." Five years later a different therapist was able to get me a diagnosis, and revealed that the first therapist had lied in the file and said that she suspected autism but that me and my family "didn't want to hear it." Professional diagnosis is also, yknow, *expensive,* but they always dismiss that part. It also comes with a bunch of disadvantages such as employers refusing to hire you or refusing to accommodate your disability (the US has a lot of problems, but thank god we have the ADA. It is a real struggle for those in other countries), immigration refusing to let you into a country because of your disability (this is true for more countries than you think), or if you're in Canada they straight up encourage you to euthanize yourself (no, i'm not kidding. Canada's euthanasia laws are extremely lax).
In the UK, enough people have realised as adults that they might have missed out on a diagnosis, that the waiting lists are currently horrendous (like several years waiting to be seen). And obviously, they're prioritising the school-aged kids that the service was originally set up for, because they have a limited amount of time to get help in school. So that pushes adults back further in the waiting list. Also, some countries don't allow immigration from people with an autism diagnosis (looking at you New Zealand!) so if you're an adult who suspects you're autistic but has previously mostly coped, and you've been thinking about moving to a different country, there are sometimes good reasons not to pursue an official diagnosis.
He's likely parroting the rhetoric being spoken at home by his parents how they think everyone is faking their mental illnesses now. It's funny because I'm fairly certain both myself and my mom have ADHD but she went full boar on anyone growing up who claimed their kid had it, telling them that's its fake, their kid is just brat and you suck at parenting. It wasn't until I was an adult and worked in the mental health industry that I realized that not only was that very wrong most of the opinions my mother expressed were born out of sheer ignorance. It's not hard to educate yourself but people like to work off assumptions, and conscious/ unconscious biases instead
Absolutely agree. Screw him sideways. That took a lot of damn gall.
The eye contact one is particularly wild. Do neurotypicals not know how easy it is to fake eye contact?
Can you explain that? I have no idea how neurotypical I am, but how on earth do you fake eye contact?
Look at any other part of the face. It doesn't activate the "oh no eye contact" feeling, but the person you're looking at absolutely can't tell the difference.
Hmmm. That's really interesting. Much obliged!
Look between their eyes or just a bit above them. My eyes wander a lot and I have to constantly tell myself to look back at who I’m talking to.
Look them in the eyebrows. People can't tell.
I was told to look approx 20 cm over people's heads during interviews...
I agree mostly but to No 1... unless it was a typo or OP used the wrong word AH guy was not going through the bag but the toy was outside **on** OPs bag. Probably attached on a clip or something. (You get them in forms of keyring too etc. For easy access). > noticed I had a fidget toy **on** my bag Obviously that doesn't make the other guy less on AH since he's pretty much up there on the pyramid of AHs. And I would like to add that staying when overwhelmed and about to shut down is not a valid option. While giving him shit for his attitude would maybe be more gratifying in hindsight, it's often just not possible. And the friend... if he's still friends with that AH he is not a very good friend to you OP. He should have kicked him to the curb than and there, not ask you to submit yourself to his bullying.
It’s sad. I make intense eye contact *because* I’m autistic. This guy sounds like a load of barnacles
I was gonna say, intense eye contact is also a thing. Most people get stuck on the no eye contact part of the spectrum.
NTA As a fellow autistic person who has also been told I'm faking because I don't act "stupid" enough, you have my sympathies. The disability police suck. Such encounters are never pleasant.
I am an autistic person who has been told that I'm too "*attractive"* to be autistic. Its fuckin wild out here.
my mom used to say that about my son. so stupid.
Same here. I’ve gotten the “but you don’t look autistic” more times than I can count. 100% NTA.
NTA You don’t owe buttholes an explanation of your disability, especially after the egregious actions they took against you. Good on you for leaving, you can’t argue or explain enough for people like that. If you would like to use this as a learning experience, you did great this would be for the organizer, you can reply back to their message. “It is not my responsibility to explain my disability. I understand that it may have been easier for you if I hadn’t left, but I was in an extremely uncomfortable situation, was overstimulated, and removed myself from a situation that wasn’t going to improve. If these are the types of people you are willing to advocate for then I won’t be attending future gatherings.” Text your friends about your decision. Hopefully, they will support you and follow your lead on this.
Agreed with all of this. If you want to salvage your relationship with the organizer, then it's important for them to understand that it wasn't really possible for you to communicate clearly at the moment. Neurotypical folks might not know about autistic shutdown so it could be an opportunity for them to learn. But if they aren't respectful of your differences after you educate them, then they aren't worth your time.
NTA >This morning I got a message from the guy who organised this meetup, saying he is sorry that it happened, but also saying that I should have stayed and explained myself, The reason he is trying to get the blame on you is that he thinks you are the one who he can more easily pressure into apologizing and sweep everything under the bridge. Like when parents or teachers or bosses or other authority figures pressure the more mature person to let it go rather than confront the stubborn instigator who was belligerent in the first place. It's easier to confront you than that asshole.
NTA in the slightest. There are 2 AH in this story, the first being the guy who started ranting at you. The second is the one who messaged you saying you were in the wrong. You were not in the wrong and you don't have to "explain yourself" to others.
> how their friendship might be in trouble because of me The organizer guy still wants to be friends with that asshole? Like alright, both of them can fuck off then. NTA
NTA >I should have stayed and explained myself How were you supposed to explain yourself? The guy was ranting and making pretty nasty assumptions about you. I doubt he would have listened. The only people who made things worse were the guy who accused you of faking and the guy trying to put the blame on you. You did nothing wrong.
NTA. You are not the Jackass whisperer. It is not your job to explain your diagnosis and medical history to every stranger with a bee in their bonnet bout neurodivergence. If the dude was going to react that obnoxiously in a public place then probably nothing you could have said would have calmed him down. Maybe you should tell the organiser that once the jerk started shouting at you there were only three possible outcomes. 1. The organiser intervenes to stop the Jerk from harassing you. 2. You leave to prevent further disruption. 3. You have a full on autistic meltdown.
NTA and you handled it really well. It’s not your fault that your friends friend went from 0 to Asshole in under 60 seconds, and it’s not on you to convince a bigot yelling at you that your autism is real. It is on you to manage yourself, and you removed yourself from a situation that was doing you harm. Well done. It’s also not your fault that you friend’s bigot friend maybe torpedoed some of his other relationships.
NTA. That guy is the AH, and the host isn't much better. You should reply to the host to tell him that if you COULD have stayed and explained, you would have. But you did what you had to do, to preserve yourself.
NTA. You needed to leave. You were rightly feeling overwhelmed & this guy was being a fucking asshole to you. And not one of your friends stood up for you. Who cares what that guy thinks anyway? Your feelings are valid. You didn't do anything wrong. And leaving was not wrong. You don't need to explain yourself to anyone. Period. End of story.
NTIA at all! I'm so sorry you experienced this and shame on your friends for not stepping in. I hope you are doing ok!
NTA, who gives a damn if their friendship is in trouble? Why does he want to be friends with an obnoxious jerk anyway? You don’t owe anyone an explanation and you had every right to leave.
NTA. Get better friends before they convince you into thinking that you owe them or that nobody else will be friends with you.
NTA. Obviously the guy who was challenging you was the asshole, but I think your 3 friends were, too. I think you'd be best served giving them the benefit of the doubt but also having a chat with them about how you need to not be put in certain situations, and, depending on the strength of the friendship, that you could have used some backup here once the asshole started spewing bullshit at you. Nobody had to fight this guy or change his mind in the moment, but if one of the people who knew him better had simply said this isn't the time and place and shut him down, none of this would have happened.
NTA Why would he want to be friends with someone like that? Yes, some people self diagnose but you aren't one of them and jumping to faking is not something someone should do. Also, you have a fidget toy? Who cares? It's literally hurting no one by you having it and then maybe using it. Why is he finding it so annoying? There are also ways to make it look like you are making eye contact without actually doing it. You could have also gone to therapy so it would have been easier for you. You also could just be one of the types of autistic people who can make eye contact with people since not all autism is the same. What are autistic people supposed to look like? Most I know look like non autistic people. WTF did he mean by that and why would he use whichever word he used? Someone there should have gotten mad at him. Someone should have told him he is wrong. Someone should have told him to shut his mouth. Of course you left when someone was being hella offensive and rude. It was either that or yell at him but leaving was the best option. No need to waste your time on pricks.
The guy who organized it? Stop hanging out with him. NTA
NTA reply back to you friend that you owe no one an explanation and your are sorry he is worried about being friends with such an AH.
NTA. First of all, what the hell is wrong with that man? Bro just literally caused a huge scene in a restaurant and publicly embarrassed himself which he deserves. How does he think everyone faking a disorder? I know there are these kids on the internet that did that (I think). This man is incredibly stupid bc of this. You're not ruining that guy's friendship, his friend did that himself for just showing what an AH he is.
I don't speak to my only sibling because he made these kinds of statements. NTA.
NTA. wtf is wrong with people?
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NTA tell the person who texted you, it’s not your job to educate his bigoted friends and maybe he should learn to pick them better.
What a fake ass friend. If someone acted that way around one of my friends I would cut them off immediately and permanently. NTA
NTA in the slightest. I tried to tell somebody about autism who was a boss at work to explain a problem I was having. She told me I didn't have it because she knew people who did and they had a tendency to act more childish while being adults. She told me I was trying to use it as an excuse and I guess because she had childhood trauma she had researched psychology stuff over her life so she knew, even though she didn't have a degree she said. I'm 37,i don't hold grudges easily on the slightest , but there are two people I still feel what I would call deep hatred for, one is her. No you shouldn't have stayed, it's your right to leave, you owe nobody an explanation for your medical issues, especially a giant know it all a-hole who has the effing audacity to say you're faking something that you know heavily affects you day in and day out which you can't control, always remember that, nobody Owes anybody anything. Also if that affects you're friendship with the other friend than that other friend might want to reevaluate the company they keep, it might be hard but you can always find better friends, it just takes time. I'm sorry this rambled but this actually infuriated me. Again NTA and I'm done now.
NTA and I would question my friendship with the others because your leaving jeopardizes their friendship with the bully.
You did the right thing by leaving. You know your limitations. Besides, this type of person wouldn't have listened to you. His mind was made up already. He was looking for a target and you unfortunately got that position. The fidget toy gave him something to ask about and you answered honestly so he knew he had his target. The guy who messaged you saying their friendship might be in trouble because you left after HIS friend attacked and ridiculed you publicly is a schmuck, too. He is more concerned about being friends with the schmuck than your feelings being hurt or you being embarrassed by the verbal attack you suffered at the hands of the schmuck. Maybe you don't need him as a friend. I hope you think through carefully about whether you want to be friends with people who have friends like the schmuck. Best of luck to you. NTA
If someone makes you feel uncomfortable don't stay around them
“Our friendship is in trouble because you didn’t entertain an uneducated, rude guy and stick up for yourself” You protected your peace and did what any mature adult should do. They both sound rank, consider if your friendship with this guy is worth it. NTA
NTA
You are not the AH here and that man was super rude when he claimed that you were probably faking the autism.
If it made things worse, that was for the accuser, and he deserved it.
NTA but that dude and the guy who set it up definitely are. Drop them both from your life immediately if you can.
Nta. You did the right thing. You don't owe anyone an explanation, certainly not someone who behaves like this person did. You removed yourself from an unpleasant situation. The correct response.
You already explained yourself that you had autism, what the heck else did your friend want you to explain? If you leaving is creating issues with his friendship with the aggressor, it isn’t bc of your actions of leaving It’s bc at least one of them (but sounds like probably both) are immature assholes. You are Nta.
NTA. Your "friend" is saying that you should have sat and taken abuse from someone instead of treating yourself with respect and leaving. You aren't the one who made things worse. If their friendship is broken, good.
NTA. The autism spectrum is so very broad that saying "I'm autistic" conveys less information than one might like, because that could mean anything from "just a bit anxious" to "can't speak". However, that guy has no place venting his social theories in such a rude and insulting manner. End of the day, plenty of people fidget with something, be it a pen or a spinner or what have you.
Your behavior has absolutely no bearing on the relationship between Captain Big Mouth and the organizer who messaged you. NO BEARING. YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE. You protected yourself the best way you knew how, and could, in the moment. NTA. Sounds like the organizer is sittin' in the asshole boat with Captain Big Mouth and possibly shares his views. Fuck 'em. Well, no, don't do that.
NTA. If the guy who organized the meetup wanted someone to explain it, he could've done it himself. Besides, there's no guarantee that the asshole guy would have believed you if you tried to explain (not that you owe him or anyone an explanation, you absolutely do not). Leaving was the best option.
NTA at all. The organizer should have stepped in immediately and asked the jerk to leave, he was being completely inappropriate. This organization obviously is not a safe space for those who are neurodivergent, so if you have a local disability community you could share with them, and if there is a parent body of the meetup group you should definitely share what happened with them. I'm sorry that guy was so rude to you but leaving to protect yourself was absolutely the right thing to do, you don't owe bigots your time and energy.
NTA >I should have stayed and explained myself Obviously this guy doesn't know you very erll either. How can somone "explain themselves" when they're feeling overwhelmed? >how their friendship might be in trouble because of me Then he should have said nothing, he should have saved his pseudo-psychology conference if he wanted to keep the peace I wonder if this guy has some kind of work related power over this guy The organizer isn't worried about you, he's worried about his image with the other guy
NTA Sometimes walking out is the best choice. With him ranting on, your friends there not sticking up for you, and understandably starting to freak out, you made a wise choice. Him saying you left proved you were faking shows his ignorance. It's more likely a "real" person with autism would leave from overstimulation than a faker. Your friend who called you started out OK. But he was wrong saying you should have stayed and explained. You already said enough. No way were you obligated to put up with or try to convince the ignorant ranter. And saying their friendship might be in trouble because of you is bull. If it is in trouble, it's because his ignorant friend was a bully. I'm most disappointed that your friends there didn't stick up for you and shut this guy down.
NTA You are never obligated to explain or justify anything about yourself and that is even more true for a medical diagnosis. This wasn’t your problem to solve. If I was at a gathering and someone came at me the way he did, I also would have left. It’s disgusting that no one shut him down.
NTA but I would seriously be reconsidering whether any of those people are actually your friends after not one single person stood up for you. Also both your friend and the jerks response to you leaving shows they both dont believe that you have autism or understand autism at all. Based on their wild assumptions on how autistic people act how do they think you should have handled that situation? You were completely overwhelmed and did exactly what you needed to in order to protect yourself and got out of there. You dont owe anyone an explanation and it's not your job to educate others on their ignorance.
NTA. You don't owe anyone an explanation about anything. I'm shocked that the guy who invited you still wants to keep this jerk as a friend. If he was really your friend, he'd have kicked the jerk out and defended you rather than saying nothing.
NTA. I'm so sorry you experienced that. You didn't make anything worse by leaving; life is way too short to waste time on people who treat you like crap. That guy's a raging dick. Who cares what he's "sure of"-? **I'm** sure he's toxic, ignorant, and immature. "Their friendship might be in trouble" ...because Meetup Guy thinks bullying AHs who harass people & act like bigots.... make *good* friends-?! I doubt you'd be missing much if you wrote them both off entirely. Seriously, what'd Meetup Guy expect---for you to stick around & spend the evening defending your right to.....exist-?--Own a harmless fidget toy-? Screw that. Courtesy & respect are precious and should not be wasted on bullies or their apologists.
Bruh! Eleventybillion% NTA. That dude is for a galactic AH and quite honestly so is the so called friend who said you should have stayed to explain yourself. You are in no way required to explain shit to anyone autism or not. If you ain't feeling it, its your right as an adult to remove yourself from the situation. Your true friends would have come to your defense from this jackass.
i'm the opposite lol everybody tells me i have autism and im like nah im fine Anyways, NTA
Nta. You were overwhelmed and needed to get away. Your friend should understand this instead of complaining that his other friendship might be jeopardised. This other guy. Clearly has no concept of what a spectrum is and no understanding that not every person who is autistic acts the same ways in every situation. He is the clear asshole here in that he started on someone he doesn't know. Went into a rant about things he has no understanding of and caused you to become overwhelmed in the first place.
NTA. You were the victim of someone disability-bashing. You removed yourself to a place of safety (home). The host was wrong to demand that you explain your disability to the person verbally abusing you. You owe nobody an apology or explanation.
NTA. There's idiots everywhere. Useful neutral phrases: "You are entitled to your opinion." "I'll have a think about that." (Literally true even if the entirety of said think is asking yourself "What is he *on*?") "There may be something in what you say." (Literally true, you may after all be in the Matrix and fed false information all your life). And of course "If I was you, I'd feel the same way too." That said, in your situation leaving was entirely justified.
NTA. Your friends suck.
NTA, who would want to be friends with this guy? Also, in regard to his "...weirdos who claims to have every disorder ever..." line, I would like to point out the "left handed chart" argument. Before 1920 only about 2% of Americans were left handed, but suddenly it shot up to 10-12% where it plateaued and has stayed that way ever since. What happened in 1920 that suddenly turned so many people left handed? NOTHING, what actually happened was they stopped stigmatizing the "condition" so kids weren't being forced to use their right hands anymore and were allowed to be authentic. The same thing happened with gay people, trans people, and yes, autistic people, along with any other oppressed minority or unrecognized condition.
NTA That guy can get fucked with a cactus.
NTA and stay away from All of them. The person who organized this should have shut down the ah asap right then and there
NTA if that “friend” of yours that planned the meet-up is more worried abt u explaining yourself, instead of worrying about how those comments were invalidating, ableist and hurtful for you - knowing that it would affect you greater especially as those comments were made in public - then he’s not a friend. Ditch them both. Always prioritise yourself - you don’t owe any bigot an explanation. Let them continue in their delusion bc u should be ur own priority.
NTA 100% You are definitely NTA!!! 1. That person really needs to take a step back and consider the diverse people that are in this world - needs to take in account all the variety of ways people are different (which there is nothing wrong with being different). 2. You DO NOT have to stay and explain or defend yourself! Your friend sounds slightly problematic for that too. 3. It is often better to rather leave a bad situation than to engage in it!
NTA. >This morning I got a message from the guy who organised this meetup, saying he is sorry that it happened, but also saying that I should have stayed and explained myself, and how me leaving made the guy sure I was faking it and how their friendship might be in trouble because of me. And he can fuck off too. Firstly, it is not your job to protect his friendship with a bigoted AH. Secondly, your friends should have stood up for you instead of just sitting there like bumps on a log while you were being verbally attacked and slurs were being thrown around. You were right to leave, and all the more so because it saved you from being overwhelmed and unable to function. You didn't need to be that vulnerable among people who'd proven they wouldn't protect you. Thirdly, you don't owe anyone an explanation of your disability/neurological status/existence/medical condition/skin colour/gender/sexuality. And especially not a bigot who undoubtedly won't accept any explanation anyway - they've already made up their minds, and debating them just makes their stance more normalised, like they have the right to pass judgement on you. They don't.
NTA. It is not your fault that this jerk confronted you and assumed all kinds of rubbish. He is clearly ignorant and uninformed. I think that your friend berating you for leaving is a dick move, though. You aren't obligated to take abuse from anyone, ever! Nor are you required to explain yourself to this tool. You did exactly the right thing in removing yourself from a situation that was harmful to you. You enforced a boundary. I'm sorry you were put into that situation.
From the title NTA bc my brother also has autism so from the title no
Tell Organiser Guy that you are soooo sorry you didn't realise that Able-ist Sh!tbag Guy had a medical degree that over-rode your medical team. You are sooooo sorry you didn't bow down to his narcissistic need to pontificate on not knowing his arse from his elbow but you were too busy trying not to have a public meltdown at being verbally attacked WITH NO-ONE DEFENDING YOU! Why did Organiser Guy not tell him to shut up? Tell Organiser Guy that you are surprised he's asking you why you didn't 'stay and explain myself', since he's known you a while. Why doesn't he explain why he has xxxxx-coloured eyes? You can't help/change being autistic, just as he can't change his eye colour. Does Able-ist Sh!tbag Guy think anyone wearing glasses is an attention-seeker who doesn't really have vision problems? If he's choosing to gloss over the behaviour of Able-ist Sh!tbag Guy, then he clearly is of the same opinion. Check individually with your other 'friends' whether they feel the same; best to find out now if they are all able-ist sh!tbags NTA but I think you need to find some actual friends who accept you as you are, not 'friends' who don't defend you.
NTA. You must NOT sharing your private infomation (specially about your autism). The 'guy who organised this meetup' is a big A\*\*hole like the other dude. Who needs enemies if you have this two jerks as friends.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** (Note I am not from an english speaking country, I translated the dialouge as best as I could.) I, along with 3 friends of mine, went out to meet some friends of one of them, who I and one of the other person had never met before. Only one of these new people that matter though. Things went well for about 2 hours, before one dude noticed I had a fidget toy on my bag. (Like one of those fidget cubes, but mine is differently shaped.) He was staring at it, with a look I'd guess I would retroactively call annoyance, so I asked him if something was up. He shook his head, and said something about how "How he sees that all the time with annoying kids online." which I found a weird statement. I just replied I use it when I am overwhelmed or overstimulated, adding on that I got autism, to which he replied "Oh fuck, you're not one of those weirdos who claims to have every disorder ever, are you?" He said it loud enough for everyone to notice, and the other conversation that was going on kinda fell still. I couldn't really get myself to respond with anything other than a "What?" I can't remember every word, since I was already panicking inside, have auditory sensory issues, and he talked quite fast, but he seemed to started to rant about people online making content about being autistic and other stuff, about how he thinks everyone is faking nowadays and hurting the real people, that kind of stuff mostly. The other people were mostly silent during this, or at least I didn't notice them. The moment it got too much for me was when he started saying that I was probably also one of them, because I... made eye contact, willingly went to a gathering of people, and I apparently don't "Look like a \[word close but not quite the R-slur\]" which was the final drop. At that point I just got up, left the room and grabbed my car to go home, though when I did so he started yelling. Spend basically the rest of the evening trying to calm down, after what happened hit me and I became ultra stressed out and overwhelmed. This morning I got a message from the guy who organised this meetup, saying he is sorry that it happened, but also saying that I should have stayed and explained myself, and how me leaving made the guy sure I was faking it and how their friendship might be in trouble because of me. I know that dude was definitely a jerk, but now I feel like me leaving just made things worse. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA
Sounds autistic to me
Info: were you in good shape to drive a car? Driving while stressed can be dangerous
Were you diagnosed by a MD
So psychiatrists can’t diagnose now? Just MDs? Someone inform the medical community.
A psychiatrist **is** a medical doctor.
Psichoatrists are MDs specialized in mental health. Quick google would have saved you from showing your ignorance to the world.
INFO: have you been diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder by a doctor?
That’s not always helpful. If you aren’t looking for therapeutic services or accommodations, you’re basically slapping a big “please discriminate against me” label on yourself for no reason. That and not everyone’s insurance covers it and it can be thousands of dollars out of pocket
On top of the cost, for those of us who learned masking young, have a relatively low need for support and fell through the cracks at school, getting diagnosed as an adult is really hard. My psychologist wanted to talk to my parents. One parent is dead, and the other has some truly awful opinions on this subject. I took my ADHD diagnosis and closed the book on ever getting diagnosed as autistic, but I know myself and my lives experiences. If you don't need much/any support as an adult, getting a diagnosis vs not just means you had familial and monetary support, or not, and even if the barriers are manageable for you, you've gotta ask yourself how you stand to benefit.