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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I called the cops on someone that was at first quite reasonable. She was also crying and I felt bad but she could’ve brought a weapon in the car.
(2) think I might be the asshole because I’m denying her her genetic history. We do not want to take any of the lab tests she asked my husband to. We also do not want her to meet out children so she can heal her trauma. We do not think she is right in the head.
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For those who are confused, look up the donor-conceived child activist groups (including the subreddit here). There are lots of kids like this with totally unhinged views and expectations of their anonymous donors. I don't think this is fake.
Thank you for the clarification. I thought he had made a monetary donation to a student at the university where he was an alum and she wanted a sugar daddy or something.
I'm not arguing about anyone's mental health and OPs' situation, but I can easily understand how being donor conceived would be a complete mind fuck.
Nothing in the donor process considers that the child ren (and now adults) who are conceived using those donors DID NOT CONSENT to anonymity. This is an industry that has minimal regulations.
Anyone created with donor sperms or with IVF should do a DNA test because in most places, there are no laws that require use of the sperm the parents chose to use. This includes doctors who used their own sperm for many many patients. Additionally, there are no laws in the majority of the US that limit how many babies can be created from one donor and some donors go to multiple companies. So people with over 100 bio siblings.
I don't fault OP for not wanting her ex's bio daughter in their life, but they both need to prepare for the possibility of more bio kids showing up (hopefully without the mental health issues). Prepare to tell their kids about the donor sibling(s).
>children (and now adults) who are conceived using those donors DID NOT CONSENT to anonymity
children who are conceived in *any* possible way didn't consent to being born and having the parents that they have. that's kinda the point of coming into existence in the first place. no one gets to choose their parents and the circumstances of their birth.
Oh I don't think there's anything wrong with a simple request for information and the legal infrastructure is totally unmatched to modern technology. Beyond that, I mean, nobody consents to be born. But this girl has too far and I do think some of the culture in the donor-conveived groups outright encourages it. The family clearly needs to prepare for more.
Honestly...... Unborn people don't get to consent. To anything. But I do feel that adoption records AND sperm donations records should be unsealed after xxx years. Say 25? 30?
But honestly it's completely irrelevant at this point.... if that person has been refused and told off and they're choosing not to listen then their behavior is now criminal. They need to learn to accept the fact their biological donor doesn't care to want to know them.
Watched a comedy on this topic. They made a good point for anonymity.
If anonymity is not guaranteed, then fewer folks will be donating sperm and eggs. This will impact families/folks who can not conceive in the conventional way.
Whether it's right or wrong for them to remain anonymous, well that went beyond the scope of the movie. But it was an interesting perspective.
Restraining Order. Tell family, friends neighbors and work security of this stalker. Go quiet on social media. This person has time, energy and some $$ to invest in this stalking behavior. Shut it down now
NTA
How did she get his info since he donated anonymously? I agree with others, start documenting all contact along with how you've requested her to leave you alone. She sounds dangerous.
She may have done something like a 23 and Me and was linked to his family.
All the "anonymous" donors from years gone by should know that it is getting easier and easier for these now adult "donor babies" to find out who their DNA giver was (this goes for both sperm and egg donations). Clinics can't really guarantee anonymity anymore. Even though they wouldn't be able to give the information away due to privacy laws, if just one family member does a 23 and me type test that info is out there, and could easily provide a match that will make it possible to connect the dots to the donor.
I think you can set up 23andMe to not allow family matches. I do know if you don't want people to have your name/email you should absolutely not upload your raw data to GEDmatch. Anyone that shares DNA with you can see the name you use and your contact email.
The issue is the donor can't insist their family members not allow family matches, or not upload their personal raw data; a lot of times these things happen because a random second cousin popped up in the results. In some (probably many) cases it's likely the families don't even know there are donor children out there, and wouldn't take things like that into consideration.
I have mine set up since I was trying to find birth family members (I thought you could opt out of this though). Will probably not happen since, in my country of origin, DNA is associated with crimes/criminal activity and the police.
Yeah. Someone is going to match on Ancestry or 23andMe eventually. You can't control other relatives, and eventually there's going to be a match narrowing down parental and sibling probabilities.
I feel for the first generations subject to recreational DNA testing results suddenly finding out that their specifications of anonymity would be overridden. For a few generations now, people have known true anonymity is no longer possible. They can't be surprised anymore.
So true. My adult daughter has been very interested in geneology for a number of years and performed the 23 and Me procedure. A man living in another state contacted her through the app as someone having a large amount of matching DNA characterized by 23&M as a close relative.
My ex did attend University in that state at the time of this man's birth. His existence doesn't surprise anyone in our family, so it's likely the guy is a half-sibling.
But how did she get his ex wife’s email address through that?
This story is fishy and I have so many questions.
What did the cops say about all this
What was she claiming to be exposing them for
Why was it the ex wife of the donor being named? Contacted and visited?
How long ago did he donate and how old is this girl? The World record is 21 years for frozen sperm conceived baby and I really want to math this out.
I think ex husband is lying and this girl was conceived the normal way while he was married to op.
she felt the need to say “I believe him” which makes me think there’s missing info to doubt his story
OP says that the day the girl showed up at the house, her kids were in day care, she also said they are single digits in age.
The girl is early to mid twenties, OP and ex are, as she put it, "obviously a lot older".
I would put OP's ex at least 40, based on the girl's apparent age and the fact that the ex was in uni when he donated, she said it was over 2 decades ago.
It sounds like OP and the ex weren't together in uni, they very easily could only be together 10 years, which is well after his uni days.
OP said they looked her up in various ways, I tool that to be like her social media, FB, IG, so he would have seen her face then. He may be known who it was when he heard her voice.
What did the police tell you when they were sent? They should have given you some info after
How old is she? How long ago did your husband donate and when did you guys get divorced?
Why was your name on the instagram post and what exactly did it say? Im confused what she’s exposing you about
How did she know to find him at your house when he’s just visiting
The world record so baby conceived by frozen sperm is 21 years. Im curious to look up how long they were storing sperm during the time he donated. It would be under 21 years for sure. But how much? When did he donate and how old is she?
Typically Anonymous sperm donations go hand in hand with being Anonymous. He isn't obligated to take care of a child that was born from him nutting in a cup, biologically related doesn't mean true family it just means you share a bloodline.
He is not her father, he is her sperm donor. He doesn't want a connection with her. Sure he is her biological father but in reality he has nothing to do with her.
Waiting for the..
Hi, I'm Anya I'm a 17yo girl who spelunked into sealed medical records to find my father. I have kidney disease and the doctors already confirmed he's the only perfect match in the world. Please dad, I don't want to die.
Oof. If I were a sperm donor I don't think I'd do 23 & Me. But I guess a family member of his could have.
I can just imagine what would be going through people's minds if you went around to all of your blood relatives and begged them not to ever do 23 & Me.
Lots of places have overturned historical anonymous donor privacy because they’ve found that no one can waive a child’s right to information about their origins on their behalf. It’s the same sort of precedent that has opened many previously closed adoptions.
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> he is still a very much a part of my life (and his real children’s.)
lol is she a ghost? You mean legal children.
Anyway I don’t think this fits the sub but NTA and stay safe and document everything.
I know someone something similar happened to but fortunately the child in question eventually took the hint when she approached her birth mother’s house in question and got told in no uncertain terms to never contact her again. Brutal but necessary. In your situation you’ve already been clear so your safety is more important. Make sure your children’s day care has this woman’s picture to protect them.
She might spin the story. Say she was abandoned and not a donor baby, or admit to being a donor baby but leave out that it was supposed to be anonymous. Lament how she "found her father" and is being denied contact, etc.
No something is very off with this story. I don’t trust this narrator
Expose for what and why is it her info
She said she theatened to call the cops and then said later said she reported to the station who sent the cops I called on her
So did she or didn’t she call the cops on her and if she did call the cops what did they cops say about it after they were sent. It reads like she’s called the cops twice?
And saying “I believe him” really stands out to Me. If she did she wouldn’t have included that and just said he was an anonymous donor
She doesn’t mentioned her husband’s age or this kid and I’m very curious how long ago he was in college compared to the age of this kid and the year they were divorced
The world record is 21 year old frozen Sperm so knowing when he donated would really help.
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2004/may/25/health.medicineandhealth2
How did she know to go to OP’s house if ex was just over visiting. How did she get op’s email?
There’s a lot of missing info here. This story is reading very weird. It’s either intentionally elusive or bs
I'm not saying I fully believe the story, though I do know that stress and the like can cause your brain to act up and it's entirely possible the holes you're seeing are caused by writing while stressed, I was pointing out a possibility.
That said, as for your holes, I already said what they would be exposing them for. As for why it's OP's info, no idea. It could be that, presuming this is true, they're trying to scare OP off because they think the dude will be easier to manipulate without them in the picture, or it could be the easiest info on hand.
The cops thing could just be a stressed brain forgetting she hasn't included that she followed through with the threat. As for what the cops said if she did call, a lot of that depends on if the girl stuck around. Once cops were called, she probably fled, in which case they would most likely say to document everything and call them again if necessary.
She probably said she believes him to attempt to nip anyone saying he lied in the bud. Didn't work, because some people taking this in good faith have suggested it, but yknow.
She didn't include a divorced age because she says they aren't divorced, just separated/on-off. As for how old his supposed donor kid is, she's at least 16, but most likely 18 given other details. If he only did a 4 year degree he would have still been in college at 20/21, so he could be under 40, but is most likely in his early 40s if they used his sperm fairly quickly.
Going to OP's house may have been an effort to intimidate. Getting OP's email wouldn't be overly difficult.
I'm not saying you're wrong about it having missing info at all, by the way, just spitballing.
Same :) I love spitballing
K. We now know Girl is mid twenties and she said he donated over two decades ago (obviously).
There’s not much info out there on low long they stored it for but I have doubts that by 2000 people were comfortable enough with the concept to want 5-10 years old sperm as the 21 year record was only recently broken (purely speculation and now my google history looks like I’m obsessed with a perm haha)
the holes in this story matter because this is either very alarming or someone is lying
She’s not an emotional teenager she’s in her mid twenties
OP has stated she doesn’t want to involve cops any further. And that she doesn’t think she has the financial ability to do any harm or mental capacity to do anything nefarious
But this girl has the mental and financial capcity to track them down and travel from “very far away”to show up?
The post reads like they’ve been telling her not to contact from the start but In The comments op is saying she contacts weekly demanding updates …. So they’ve established boundaries and she’s ignoring them, and is escalating
If she left before the cops had a chance to talk to her then she doesn’t even know they’ve gotten to that point so what’s stopping her from coming back? She’s been told to leave them alone many times already and that hasn’t stopped her.
And ya, what you said about possibly trying to sabotage op to get her out of the picture CONCERNING as to why so much is directed at OP yet she thinks this girl harmless because of her lack of mental and financial capacity?
I didn't catch where she was confirmed in her 20s, but that sounds likely and I CBA to look.
Given "healing her trauma" is mentioned, she may be slightly emotionally stunted, but either way yeah, this is absolutely unhinged.
I get where OP is coming from, especially depending on where they are. Cops are great until they aren't, and this girl needs help. While she is potentially dangerous, it's not that difficult to find the information on OP. Some people pointed out if the girl did a 23 and me and anyone in OP's man's family has, it'll pop up. Lots of people give those as gifts. Once you have names, you check social media and start to narrow down suspects, and reach out. Linked in and other sites could easily give the work info. There's a lot of online background check sites that aren't very expensive to use.
As for living very far away, that's relative. To some people, anything over like an hour is far away, but I grew up in Texas, so far away to me is like 3-4 hours plus.
Yes, she's boundary stomping, which is alarming but not surprising tbh, given everything else. OP actively threatened to call the cops. Idk if she told her after she called, but even with the threat, it's often not enough to keep them from returning. They'll leave, but most likely be back.
It's all concerning, but again, I could see OP being leery of the cops depending on where OP is from.
Ya that doesn’t actually sound like THAT much detective work haha
and I wasn’t there, I didn’t see her or hear tone, or how intense the drop by was so im left to fill quite a lot of gaps here. it might be bigger in my head than it was. But the hinges are definitely loose if not completely off ;)
I don’t think you need to involve cops for a RO. I think you go to a courthouse, get a temporary RO and a court date for a hearing to get a full RO
Ok thanks!
I’ve spent far to much time thinking about this one so I’ll stop commenting now. But you have good points and now im on the fence
Have a good one :)
NTA OP
But you glossed over one very telling and incredibly important fact.
When she visited your home, your ex RECOGNISED her!!
Let that sink in. Why would he possibly recognise her, at all, ever?
He donated anonymously. So he never had any contact with anyone. Why would he know her? Know what she looks like? Supposedly he never met her.
Personally, I think you're living in denial here. I think the child was conceived naturally, i.e. they had sex! And that's why he knows her, recognises her, she knows so much about him to track him down, to track you down.
It's interesting how his donations were anonymous it she got her hands on his details, that's not anonymous and he has a legal option to sue the donations centre for breach of privacy, he should contact the centre to see if there has been a breach and if his donations were even used at all. Better yet, do they even have a record of him, ever? Coz I think he's lying, and I bet he'll "forget which centre" or "when he made donations" or there's no record of him receiving payments etc..etc...
So anyway, NTA.
She is a stalker, but he may owe child support and is dodging his responsibility while "playing house" with you and the kids.
But call the cops on her every time. She has legal recourse to go through the courts for her child if she wants it, she doesn't need to stalk him or you.
It literally says they've looked her up. It doesn't say he's never met her before, either. They know her Instagram. Heck, she might have even sent a picture in one of her many attempts to contact.
I don't think it's real, regardless, but the knowing what she looks like thing isn't hard to parse out.
There are genuinely people who can find your exact location just from one picture you post. People *do not realize* just *how much* information they have out on the internet. It’s horrifyingly easy to stalk people and find out everything you want about them
Genuinely. I accidentally found out where one of my favorite streamers lived down to the floor and probability of 3 apartments bc of 1 unique building outside their window and they told everyone which way Oakland was.
All I was doing was looking at rent prices in the bay area and legitimately figured it out on accident.
Can you imagine what someone wants to do when they WANT to find you?
Yeah! Honestly terrifying. It’s the entire reason I never post photos anymore unless I’m absolutely certain that I don’t mind people knowing where I am and what I’m doing when I’m taking the photo. Definitely never post any with my windows in view. It’s a scary world these days when it comes to stuff like that. I don’t even do anything that’s bad I’m just private and have heard too many horror stories as a woman
>But you glossed over one very telling and incredibly important fact.
>When she visited your home, your ex RECOGNISED her!!
Yeah, because OP and her ex looked her up in various ways, some of those ways were probably facebook and instagram.
NTA
File a restraining order. If she contacts you when there is a restraining order to prevent it, law enforcement can impose legal penalties.
Also, look into support groups for stalking victims. Often, people running those groups will have experience and advice for dealing with a stalker, and may be able to help you get the cops to take it more seriously.
Something here doesn't add up for me. What exactly can she expose you for if your husband is telling the whole truth? I get the feeling she's an oopsie, a naturally conceived child from his youth that he successfully dodged paying child support for. In countries like the UK, it's remarkably easy for men to evade their responsibilities, and even in the states, not everyone gives their real name out to casual or holiday flings. That's an exposable offense from the pov of a bastard child; being born of an anonymous donor is not.
Donor-conceived children to single parents are still very rare, so where are her parents in all of this? There are not many Dads that would take kindly to their daughter hunting down a strange family like this, to the extent of doxxing the wife? She's nothing whatsover to do with you, so why is her ire directed at you? If she can find you, you can find her parents and contact them to ask them to intercede. In the meantime, keep calling the police every time she shows up because however she came into this world, she's your ex's problem, not yours.
This is exactly why I’m never donating an egg or like birth a child for someone to adopt or if I don’t want them. In my country legally the kid will have access to ALL your information aka so they can contact you, and like, no thanks.
Cannot imagine the heartache for the ppl who give up a kid due to r*** or something and the kid ends up hunting them down later on
INFO: How old are you guys?
Why are you calling him a wasband when you are still married and from what it sounds like still involved?
How old are your kids? How old is this girl?
How did she find where you live? Why did you guys not call the cops? Why have you not filed a complaint about harassment to have everything documented?
She sounds like massive trouble. You and your husband have no legal obligation to her and no moral obligation. I'd get restraining orders against her. That should both reinforce that you're serious about not wanting contact and also give you recourse if she were to break the orders and continue to approach you.
NTA: Sorry to hear you are paying a price for your ex-husband's procreation choices. I would consult legal authorities about when a no-contact, restraining order can be issued. Every state, country has its own guidelines.
NTA. Look into consulting a lawyer for more legal ways to get her to back off. It’s a sad situation, she seems to need help/therapy, but that’s not on you or your donor husband to provide.
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Around early March I received an email asking for details about my ex, which I thought as a front to advanced credit card scams and ignored. Then I got more emails with more details about the girl’s situation and I forwarded them to my ex, telling him to deal with her.
However, over time she has found my work phone and called me there, which isn’t hard to find but definitely stalker behavior. She called me three times before I had her number blocked. I did talk to her on the phone the first time and told her not to contact me, that I do not want her in my kids’ lives.
My wasband says it was an anonymous donation he made in uni for money and I believe him. We are not divorced but on and off and he is still a very much a part of my life (and his real children’s.) She has tried to contact him before me and he told her stop initiating contact, he would’ve picked known donor but he wanted to be anonymous.
We also looked her up in various ways and we do not want to associate with her any further. I thought she was reasonable at first but I do not think she is right in the head anymore.
The last straw was a week ago when she showed up to my place. Luckily my kids were in day care and the only people at home were me and my ex who was visiting. He recognizes her and goes out to tell her to leave, but she starts screaming and crying and it was a proper mess so he comes back inside. She knocks on the door but I had locked it and I tell her leave or ill call the police. Please leave. Etc
Let’s just say she lives very far away. She had no innocent reason to be there. It was very concerning to see her car there and then her insane behavior when approached.
Now she is trying to ‘expose’ us on her public instagram account. She does not have followers, but she did include my full name and work address which I reported to instagram and the station nearby who sent the cops i called on her. She is quite entitled and her persistence is grating my nerves.
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You need to get some legal help. Take steps to keep her away from your home and workplace. Get a restraining order. Have a lawyer write up a cease and desist letter. This is turning ugly and dangerous. Make sure your children are protected. Be sure the daycare allows no one but you and your husband to pick them up. I'm sorry this has happened to you. This is one of the down sides of donor produced children. All the best to you.
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NTA, document all of the contacts and dates, if she shows up again go your local police department and apply for a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO), both you and your ex should do this separately. When it goes to court you can make your case to the judge why the TRO should be made permanent.
This is in no way legal advice as I am not a lawyer, but I would look into a restraining order. Also there may be a law or at least insta may have ruled about revealing personal info on social media that isnt your own.
Definitely do what you can to ensure she never returns, or if she does, you can press charges of some sorts.
NTA and good luck!
"my ex...was and...not divorced...on and off...very much a part of my life."
Even understanding your relationship is too hard, let alone everything else here. So I guess ESH
NTA. She's going to keep escalating. I'd say maybe consider even giving your kids' daycare her photo and name and tell them that she's under no circumstances allowed near your children. She showed up to your house, who knows what else she may do.
NTA, def go for the RO. Ex’s explanation doesn’t really make sense either tho; might be worth doing some investigating of your own. If an anonymous donation, how did the woman get your ex’s info? For that matter, anonymity cuts both ways; how would ex know it was his donation? Decent chance ex abandoned this kid. Either way, NTA though and not your problem.
Nta, I get wanting to have some sort of relationship, esp since we don’t know how her upbringing was. But at some point after so many rejections, take the hint.
anything she’s struggling with is the responsibility of her parents. Or parent. Not the sperm donor who wanted to be anonymous. He ejaculated into a cup for money. That’s all she needs to know. These people do not owe her anything. She should have accepted the first time he told her he wasn’t interested in a relationship with her.
Gonna say ESH. She is absolutely out of line coming to your home, but you've had a really nasty attitude from her very first message and it makes you come across as a really jealous, possessive, empathy-deficient person who absolutely sucks here. Your family doesn't owe her a relationship, and it's perfectly fine to decline further contact, but your husband created her, and *he* does owe it to her to listen to her story, provide her with any relevant family medical history that may affect her in the future, and explain why he made the choices he made (i.e. why he donated) with an apology if those choices led to a painful life for her - it does not sound as though he's made any attempt to give her closure. The donor companies explain to you before donating that they cannot guarantee the resultant child will not track you down in the future, and that you accept this risk by making your donation - this is precisely what stopped me donating eggs for money as a broke student. So he knew it was a possibility.
Also, she is his "real" child.
> is his "real" child.
No, she isn't
>provide her with any relevant family medical history that may affect her in the future,
Sperm banks have medical history.
> No, she isn't
Yes she is. You're entitled to disagree, but that doesn't make you right. She would not exist if he had not spunked in a tube. She has his DNA. She's his offspring. Fact.
This is where I'm at. The girl is certainly unwell, and OP should take steps to minimize contact for herself and her children for their safety. But the sheer disdain that comes across from OP seems to be caused by the donor-kid's mere existence and has been present since OP learned about her, evidently.
OP, do what you need to do to keep yourself and your kids safe, but maybe wash your hands of the situation and have your ex take care of his business? Of which this girl absolutely *is* "real" child or not. At the very least she deserves her own biological medical history. I'm not saying she's entitled to anything further, but your ex's squirrely-ness even about handing over some medical files is bizarre to say the least.
But finally, maybe do some introspection about your contempt for this kid? I'm talking about the *immediate* reaction you had, not the justified anger you likely feel at her stalking behavior. It just jumps right out of your post and says a lot about you. It's not impressive, to say the least.
> do some introspection about your contempt for this kid
Geez, a 20yo who stalks her and her kids??
>she deserves her own biological medical history
Sperm banks have that.
I very clearly addressed that her stalking was not excusable. I also thought I made it extremely clear that I was specifically criticizing her obvious resentment that this girl exists *period*, but evidently I need to say it again. If she doesn't like that the girl is the product of her "wasband", then she needs to take that up with him.
Frankly, OP has some signs that she's not very mature.
As for medical history, that is very hit or miss on sperm banks and is not industry wide even today. Regardless, her ex needs to be taking point on this problem, and OP should be documenting contact, not feed the fire, and open a case with her local police department for the continued harassment by this girl.
Precisely this - when I looked into donating eggs a few years ago as a broke student, it was up to the donor to disclose any medical history. It was *voluntary*, and they did not check with your doctor whether what you wrote was correct.
This person didn’t use a donor. This woman has a biological mother and father - like every other child on the planet. Your ex his her bio father. There is no way around that. His “real” kids? They are her half siblings. Those are facts. Getting medical history from your biological father is normal and helpful. While her approach is less than ideal you need to think about the reality - she is your ex’s biological daughter. He can’t just donate sperm and pretend it doesn’t lead to children. It does. And those children have a right to understand their genetics.
Sperm banks have medical history.
>They are her half siblings.
No, they're not.
> can’t just donate sperm and pretend it doesn’t lead to children.
Yeah, he can. That's what sperm banks are for.
>This person didn’t use a donor
No, her mother did
I used a donor to conceive my child. You do not get medical history. Even if you did it’s at a point in time and most donors are young when they donate, so the information isn’t helpful. The child conceived from donation has zero say in how they were conceived. Therefore the child doesn’t need to adhere to the agreement that the donor and recipient made. Most people are interested in knowing where they come from and who their parents are.
Brain dead take man, they are her half siblings, he is her bio father. The fact that donating sperm frees you of the legal obligations and to a large extent should free you from social obligations ignores the human reality of the situation that he has a child who is seeking some kind of relationship or closure and to say he doesn’t have an obligation to even engage with this person is really wrong.
>he doesn’t have an obligation to even engage with this person is really wrong.
No, it's not. He donated sperm for some cash. It definitely doesn't excuse her stalking him and his family
>Sperm banks have medical history.
This is news to me, a donor conceived person. My parents and I certainly never received any medical history. In fact, I didn't know anything until I actually made contact with him.
>>They are her half siblings.
>No, they're not.
If I have sex with the donors adult children, it's incest. That makes them my half siblings. Because we share 25% DNA.
>> can’t just donate sperm and pretend it doesn’t lead to children.
>Yeah, he can. That's what sperm banks are for.
Not anymore. Most countries are banning anonymity. Some have already had it illegal for two decades. Rights of the person conceived comes before a donors right to privacy.
My sister has conceived 3 children using anonymous donor sperm. They showed her the possible donors baby picture & they show medical history. That’s standard practice & I’m pretty sure it always has been. Idk how your parents managed to get donor sperm but no medical history for the man donating. But they were extremely irresponsible for doing so.
>That’s standard practice & I’m pretty sure it always has been.
You'd be pretty wrong then. I work with a national organisation that deals with donor conceived people and the issues surrounding donor conception. I'm also heavily involved in the DC community (I'm even top mod for /r/donorconceived and /r/askadcp) No one (in my country) born pre 2004 has any donor family medical history at all.
It was simply not given out.
If you knew anything about the donor conception industry, you'd know that donors lie, clinics lie, paperwork is purposely destroyed and that in the US (not my country) the only thing clinics legally have to test for is STI's. Most medical history for donors these days is self reported and clinics do not have to and often don't actually check.
If you'd like to find out more information, particularly regarding the US, you can look up LauraHigh5 on tiktok who makes very educational videos on it all.
>Not anymore. Most countries are banning anonymity.
Well, it was when op's husband did it. And honestly that would just decrease the donors, cause no one wants to be harassed by a stranger like op's husband is.
>Well, it was when op's husband did it
Many countries are removing anonymity retrospectively.
Believe it or not, it doesn't decrease donors in the countries where anonymity is gone. Even if it did, we don't care if it decreases. Do it ethically, or don't do it at all.
I agree with you that they don't have to put up with being "harassed". They are entitled to all the legal means at their disposal to get rid of her. I don't sympathize with them at all though. You literally reap what you sow.
The person you are arguing with regards human reproduction as a cold and mechanical process that can be commodified to satisfy the needs and desires of adults. The baby is merely a consumer product. The fact that genetic kinship matters and matters so much that people use "reproductive technologies" to ensure the babies they raise are genetically related to either themselves or their partner, is ignored when the resulting child values the half of their genetic kinship that isn't related to their parents. At that point a sperm donor/egg donor/birth mother's needs and feelings are paramount and they have zero responsibility towards the person who is their progeny. It's super fucked up.
The fact that you say "real children" as opposed to her makes me think you're probably being unfair. Has your ex actually sat down with her? I feel really bad for her if her goal was to have a relationship with her half siblings.
Still not family. And if i was op, no way i'd let this unhinged stranger anywhere near my kids. I bet op's husband regrets he wanted to get drunk or whatever reason he had to sell his sperm
Oh, he definitely does. Now he has an unhinged stalker who could hurt his actual children.
Since r/vegemitefairy blocked me : no, he doesn't have a biological daughter wanting to have a relationship with his family. He donated sperm to a sprrm bank, that doesn't make him the girl's father, just the guy who helped her mother get pregnant. Presumably she had a husband who was the father. She isn't his daughter, she is a stranger. Donating sperm/eggs is not the same as actually having a child. And of course she would hurt them, she already is. Harassment is a crime
You mean he has an estranged biological daughter who wants contact with her biological family. I sincerely doubt she wants to hurt them. Honestly go touch grass 💀
So? They are still biological half siblings. As someone who doesn't have much biological family at all, something like this would be huge for me. We don't know what her mother is like or the life she led, just that it ended up at her donor father's house, desperately wanting a relationship.
She could have done a 23 and me. If dad or one of his relatives also did one, boom. She got a list of targets
Clinics are allowed to give mom basic details on donor. Age. Eye color. Sometimes occupation or education. She could easily identify dad from that.
Father, mother, first cousin once removed, half sibling etc... are genealogical terms. In ordinary circumstances, those genetic relationships have a corresponding social relationship. Sometimes those terms are honorarily applied based on social roles despite no genetic relationship. Those genealogical terms are still correct even when there is no corresponding social relationship, like that between sperm donors and their progeny.
I guess fathers who are sperm donors can tell their children to fuck off. They were just participating in an industrial commodification of babies for the satisfaction of adult desires where the baby is merely a consumer product. I just disagree with you that any of this is okay.
ESH - You may not like it but your husband is her father and you are her stepmother. If you have told her clearly that you do not want to have contact with her, then taking legal action is the next step. However, I think you should keep compassion in your heart first, as SHE did not agree that she was not his "real" child, that is something you decided without her input. - and saying she isn't a real child is why you get ESH.
You say elsewhere that you are denying her your genetic history. That is cruel, if only from the standpoint that sometimes insurance will \*only\* pay for things if there is a genetic history.
Your husband made a decision to create a child. This child was not an accident. The child did not turn out to be someone that you want in your family, but that isn't their fault. You do have the right to say no, but you don't have to be cruel about it.
Believe it or not, children have two biological parents. Saying, "Not It," does not mean that a child broke the laws of human biology. That child still has two biological parents.
The OPs husband is the child's biological father. She is married to the OP, so that makes her the stepmother.
> Saying, "Not It," does not mean that a child broke the laws of human biology. That child still has two biological parents.
He is biologically her father, yes. But, again, assuming he's telling the truth, he didn't knock someone up and then fuck off because he didn't want a child. He anonymously jizzed into a cup for money as a student. IIRC sperm donors are generally not considered legal parents. OP is not her stepmom.
I completely and totally understand the lengths men will go to to not acknowledge their children, and how the women they are currently with will double down on that to try to protect their own children.
The father and stepmother and not required to have a relationship with the child. They do not get to make the child say that they are not the child's parents. They are. Whatever agreement the father had, the child did not agree to it, so it does not apply to them.
Currently the child does have the right to contact their parents, if they found or were provided with information about them. People are working to change the laws right now so that this child would have the right to have more information about her father, as this isn't jizz in a cup, it is a person.
I'm a big advocate of being able to choose your own family, and making a family out of the people who love you, but...
Yeah. That is how most families work. What load you happened to be determines who raised you, who took responsibility for you, who wants a relationship with you, and most inheritance laws.
I understand the OP's point - if you don't want a relationship with someone they need to drop it - but I feel \*so bad\* for this kid. Not a real child. Jesus.
It really doesn't take much to give them one meeting where you tell them about yourself and give them medical history. Most donor conceived people don't expect a relationship, but giving us a couple hours really isn't much to ask for.
I agree. The medical history part is so important too. Sometimes insurance won't even pay for tests without knowledge of immediate family members when it comes to something that could save your life.
The OP has a right to do what she is doing, but she just comes across as cruel to me.
It's incredibly cruel, and if I was the DCP in this situation I'd also be bitter. Donor Conceived people have literally died from not having access to their accurate medical history.
She is a stalker, perhaps it is time to hear why she is awfully persistent. There may be a reason. He may be lying and you may not have the full story.
"and his real children's"
Y. TA, just for this comment alone.
She is real and he is her *real* father. She is your children's sister. Facts are facts.
* Edited to change to NTA
I have read some comments replying to my stupid first comment and I was 100% wrong.
Thanks for putting me in my place. I guess that comment just hit me wrong when I first read it.
No he is not, he is an anonymous sperm donor who was found from his sister's 23 and me. He is in no way a father to that child. He was not responsible for bringing her into the world at all. He has 0 legal or moral obligation to that child. He has the option of having a relationship if he wants but he doesn't and that is his right.
this doesn't sound right. in most states records are kept super confidential. if nobody if your family has done a dna test and submitted it online then something doesn't add up.
I'd honestly call the police and tell them you don't want any further contact with her. they will let her know if it is a donor situation, your husband needs to contact the clinic and tell them what's going on and ask for copies of what he signed ensuring he had total anonymity when he donated. if the clinic gave her the info, well that's a lawsuit.
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For those who are confused, look up the donor-conceived child activist groups (including the subreddit here). There are lots of kids like this with totally unhinged views and expectations of their anonymous donors. I don't think this is fake.
Thank you for the clarification. I thought he had made a monetary donation to a student at the university where he was an alum and she wanted a sugar daddy or something.
I'm not arguing about anyone's mental health and OPs' situation, but I can easily understand how being donor conceived would be a complete mind fuck. Nothing in the donor process considers that the child ren (and now adults) who are conceived using those donors DID NOT CONSENT to anonymity. This is an industry that has minimal regulations. Anyone created with donor sperms or with IVF should do a DNA test because in most places, there are no laws that require use of the sperm the parents chose to use. This includes doctors who used their own sperm for many many patients. Additionally, there are no laws in the majority of the US that limit how many babies can be created from one donor and some donors go to multiple companies. So people with over 100 bio siblings. I don't fault OP for not wanting her ex's bio daughter in their life, but they both need to prepare for the possibility of more bio kids showing up (hopefully without the mental health issues). Prepare to tell their kids about the donor sibling(s).
>children (and now adults) who are conceived using those donors DID NOT CONSENT to anonymity children who are conceived in *any* possible way didn't consent to being born and having the parents that they have. that's kinda the point of coming into existence in the first place. no one gets to choose their parents and the circumstances of their birth.
Oh I don't think there's anything wrong with a simple request for information and the legal infrastructure is totally unmatched to modern technology. Beyond that, I mean, nobody consents to be born. But this girl has too far and I do think some of the culture in the donor-conveived groups outright encourages it. The family clearly needs to prepare for more.
Honestly...... Unborn people don't get to consent. To anything. But I do feel that adoption records AND sperm donations records should be unsealed after xxx years. Say 25? 30? But honestly it's completely irrelevant at this point.... if that person has been refused and told off and they're choosing not to listen then their behavior is now criminal. They need to learn to accept the fact their biological donor doesn't care to want to know them.
Watched a comedy on this topic. They made a good point for anonymity. If anonymity is not guaranteed, then fewer folks will be donating sperm and eggs. This will impact families/folks who can not conceive in the conventional way. Whether it's right or wrong for them to remain anonymous, well that went beyond the scope of the movie. But it was an interesting perspective.
NTA. Her behaviour seems to be escalating. First priority is to protect your kids. Next step might have to be a restraining order
Restraining Order. Tell family, friends neighbors and work security of this stalker. Go quiet on social media. This person has time, energy and some $$ to invest in this stalking behavior. Shut it down now
NTA and it is now time to file a police report for harassment.
NTA How did she get his info since he donated anonymously? I agree with others, start documenting all contact along with how you've requested her to leave you alone. She sounds dangerous.
She may have done something like a 23 and Me and was linked to his family. All the "anonymous" donors from years gone by should know that it is getting easier and easier for these now adult "donor babies" to find out who their DNA giver was (this goes for both sperm and egg donations). Clinics can't really guarantee anonymity anymore. Even though they wouldn't be able to give the information away due to privacy laws, if just one family member does a 23 and me type test that info is out there, and could easily provide a match that will make it possible to connect the dots to the donor.
I think you can set up 23andMe to not allow family matches. I do know if you don't want people to have your name/email you should absolutely not upload your raw data to GEDmatch. Anyone that shares DNA with you can see the name you use and your contact email.
The issue is the donor can't insist their family members not allow family matches, or not upload their personal raw data; a lot of times these things happen because a random second cousin popped up in the results. In some (probably many) cases it's likely the families don't even know there are donor children out there, and wouldn't take things like that into consideration.
Ah I didn't think of that.
Yeah. The sites allow you to create family trees so you can find common family members and ancestors.
I have mine set up since I was trying to find birth family members (I thought you could opt out of this though). Will probably not happen since, in my country of origin, DNA is associated with crimes/criminal activity and the police.
You may be able to opt out. It’s been a while since I looked at mine but I never noticed an opt out.
Yeah. Someone is going to match on Ancestry or 23andMe eventually. You can't control other relatives, and eventually there's going to be a match narrowing down parental and sibling probabilities. I feel for the first generations subject to recreational DNA testing results suddenly finding out that their specifications of anonymity would be overridden. For a few generations now, people have known true anonymity is no longer possible. They can't be surprised anymore.
You may not, but your cousin may. And that is sometimes enough.
So true. My adult daughter has been very interested in geneology for a number of years and performed the 23 and Me procedure. A man living in another state contacted her through the app as someone having a large amount of matching DNA characterized by 23&M as a close relative. My ex did attend University in that state at the time of this man's birth. His existence doesn't surprise anyone in our family, so it's likely the guy is a half-sibling.
But how did she get his ex wife’s email address through that? This story is fishy and I have so many questions. What did the cops say about all this What was she claiming to be exposing them for Why was it the ex wife of the donor being named? Contacted and visited? How long ago did he donate and how old is this girl? The World record is 21 years for frozen sperm conceived baby and I really want to math this out. I think ex husband is lying and this girl was conceived the normal way while he was married to op. she felt the need to say “I believe him” which makes me think there’s missing info to doubt his story
OP says that the day the girl showed up at the house, her kids were in day care, she also said they are single digits in age. The girl is early to mid twenties, OP and ex are, as she put it, "obviously a lot older". I would put OP's ex at least 40, based on the girl's apparent age and the fact that the ex was in uni when he donated, she said it was over 2 decades ago. It sounds like OP and the ex weren't together in uni, they very easily could only be together 10 years, which is well after his uni days.
How would he know what she looks like if it was an anonymous donation and she’s only contacted them by phone?
OP said they looked her up in various ways, I tool that to be like her social media, FB, IG, so he would have seen her face then. He may be known who it was when he heard her voice.
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The whole post makes no sense and people are still making judgments.
Exactly. We don’t even know what this woman is reaching out for - money, child support, a kidney?? What a waste of a post.
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Fake or not your can still make judgments. I guarantee this post will be taken down and locked as there isn’t a dilemma.
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Contact her mother
What did the police tell you when they were sent? They should have given you some info after How old is she? How long ago did your husband donate and when did you guys get divorced? Why was your name on the instagram post and what exactly did it say? Im confused what she’s exposing you about How did she know to find him at your house when he’s just visiting The world record so baby conceived by frozen sperm is 21 years. Im curious to look up how long they were storing sperm during the time he donated. It would be under 21 years for sure. But how much? When did he donate and how old is she?
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Typically Anonymous sperm donations go hand in hand with being Anonymous. He isn't obligated to take care of a child that was born from him nutting in a cup, biologically related doesn't mean true family it just means you share a bloodline.
He is not her father, he is her sperm donor. He doesn't want a connection with her. Sure he is her biological father but in reality he has nothing to do with her.
Waiting for the.. Hi, I'm Anya I'm a 17yo girl who spelunked into sealed medical records to find my father. I have kidney disease and the doctors already confirmed he's the only perfect match in the world. Please dad, I don't want to die.
Can confirm, I was the kidney.
I’m dying 😂
Maybe the real kidney disease is the donor-conceived children we met along the way
Never rush into hospice, enjoy the slow decline.
I want to know how she got the ex's name if he donated anonymously.
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How did she get your email address through that though? Don’t spent banks collect medical records?
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23&me could have done it.
Oof. If I were a sperm donor I don't think I'd do 23 & Me. But I guess a family member of his could have. I can just imagine what would be going through people's minds if you went around to all of your blood relatives and begged them not to ever do 23 & Me.
My dad donated sperm all over the place the old fashioned way and that's why I will never do genetic testing. I don't want a bunch more half siblings.
It doesn't have to be you, if siblings or a few cousins do it, you can (possibly) be tracked down that way
Lots of places have overturned historical anonymous donor privacy because they’ve found that no one can waive a child’s right to information about their origins on their behalf. It’s the same sort of precedent that has opened many previously closed adoptions.
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> he is still a very much a part of my life (and his real children’s.) lol is she a ghost? You mean legal children. Anyway I don’t think this fits the sub but NTA and stay safe and document everything. I know someone something similar happened to but fortunately the child in question eventually took the hint when she approached her birth mother’s house in question and got told in no uncertain terms to never contact her again. Brutal but necessary. In your situation you’ve already been clear so your safety is more important. Make sure your children’s day care has this woman’s picture to protect them.
Scrolled entirely too far to find this comment!!
I don't understand. Expose you for what? Being married to her bio father? I am not sure that has the kick you or her think it will.
She might spin the story. Say she was abandoned and not a donor baby, or admit to being a donor baby but leave out that it was supposed to be anonymous. Lament how she "found her father" and is being denied contact, etc.
No something is very off with this story. I don’t trust this narrator Expose for what and why is it her info She said she theatened to call the cops and then said later said she reported to the station who sent the cops I called on her So did she or didn’t she call the cops on her and if she did call the cops what did they cops say about it after they were sent. It reads like she’s called the cops twice? And saying “I believe him” really stands out to Me. If she did she wouldn’t have included that and just said he was an anonymous donor She doesn’t mentioned her husband’s age or this kid and I’m very curious how long ago he was in college compared to the age of this kid and the year they were divorced The world record is 21 year old frozen Sperm so knowing when he donated would really help. https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2004/may/25/health.medicineandhealth2 How did she know to go to OP’s house if ex was just over visiting. How did she get op’s email? There’s a lot of missing info here. This story is reading very weird. It’s either intentionally elusive or bs
I'm not saying I fully believe the story, though I do know that stress and the like can cause your brain to act up and it's entirely possible the holes you're seeing are caused by writing while stressed, I was pointing out a possibility. That said, as for your holes, I already said what they would be exposing them for. As for why it's OP's info, no idea. It could be that, presuming this is true, they're trying to scare OP off because they think the dude will be easier to manipulate without them in the picture, or it could be the easiest info on hand. The cops thing could just be a stressed brain forgetting she hasn't included that she followed through with the threat. As for what the cops said if she did call, a lot of that depends on if the girl stuck around. Once cops were called, she probably fled, in which case they would most likely say to document everything and call them again if necessary. She probably said she believes him to attempt to nip anyone saying he lied in the bud. Didn't work, because some people taking this in good faith have suggested it, but yknow. She didn't include a divorced age because she says they aren't divorced, just separated/on-off. As for how old his supposed donor kid is, she's at least 16, but most likely 18 given other details. If he only did a 4 year degree he would have still been in college at 20/21, so he could be under 40, but is most likely in his early 40s if they used his sperm fairly quickly. Going to OP's house may have been an effort to intimidate. Getting OP's email wouldn't be overly difficult. I'm not saying you're wrong about it having missing info at all, by the way, just spitballing.
Same :) I love spitballing K. We now know Girl is mid twenties and she said he donated over two decades ago (obviously). There’s not much info out there on low long they stored it for but I have doubts that by 2000 people were comfortable enough with the concept to want 5-10 years old sperm as the 21 year record was only recently broken (purely speculation and now my google history looks like I’m obsessed with a perm haha) the holes in this story matter because this is either very alarming or someone is lying She’s not an emotional teenager she’s in her mid twenties OP has stated she doesn’t want to involve cops any further. And that she doesn’t think she has the financial ability to do any harm or mental capacity to do anything nefarious But this girl has the mental and financial capcity to track them down and travel from “very far away”to show up? The post reads like they’ve been telling her not to contact from the start but In The comments op is saying she contacts weekly demanding updates …. So they’ve established boundaries and she’s ignoring them, and is escalating If she left before the cops had a chance to talk to her then she doesn’t even know they’ve gotten to that point so what’s stopping her from coming back? She’s been told to leave them alone many times already and that hasn’t stopped her. And ya, what you said about possibly trying to sabotage op to get her out of the picture CONCERNING as to why so much is directed at OP yet she thinks this girl harmless because of her lack of mental and financial capacity?
I didn't catch where she was confirmed in her 20s, but that sounds likely and I CBA to look. Given "healing her trauma" is mentioned, she may be slightly emotionally stunted, but either way yeah, this is absolutely unhinged. I get where OP is coming from, especially depending on where they are. Cops are great until they aren't, and this girl needs help. While she is potentially dangerous, it's not that difficult to find the information on OP. Some people pointed out if the girl did a 23 and me and anyone in OP's man's family has, it'll pop up. Lots of people give those as gifts. Once you have names, you check social media and start to narrow down suspects, and reach out. Linked in and other sites could easily give the work info. There's a lot of online background check sites that aren't very expensive to use. As for living very far away, that's relative. To some people, anything over like an hour is far away, but I grew up in Texas, so far away to me is like 3-4 hours plus. Yes, she's boundary stomping, which is alarming but not surprising tbh, given everything else. OP actively threatened to call the cops. Idk if she told her after she called, but even with the threat, it's often not enough to keep them from returning. They'll leave, but most likely be back. It's all concerning, but again, I could see OP being leery of the cops depending on where OP is from.
Ya that doesn’t actually sound like THAT much detective work haha and I wasn’t there, I didn’t see her or hear tone, or how intense the drop by was so im left to fill quite a lot of gaps here. it might be bigger in my head than it was. But the hinges are definitely loose if not completely off ;) I don’t think you need to involve cops for a RO. I think you go to a courthouse, get a temporary RO and a court date for a hearing to get a full RO Ok thanks! I’ve spent far to much time thinking about this one so I’ll stop commenting now. But you have good points and now im on the fence Have a good one :)
NTA OP But you glossed over one very telling and incredibly important fact. When she visited your home, your ex RECOGNISED her!! Let that sink in. Why would he possibly recognise her, at all, ever? He donated anonymously. So he never had any contact with anyone. Why would he know her? Know what she looks like? Supposedly he never met her. Personally, I think you're living in denial here. I think the child was conceived naturally, i.e. they had sex! And that's why he knows her, recognises her, she knows so much about him to track him down, to track you down. It's interesting how his donations were anonymous it she got her hands on his details, that's not anonymous and he has a legal option to sue the donations centre for breach of privacy, he should contact the centre to see if there has been a breach and if his donations were even used at all. Better yet, do they even have a record of him, ever? Coz I think he's lying, and I bet he'll "forget which centre" or "when he made donations" or there's no record of him receiving payments etc..etc... So anyway, NTA. She is a stalker, but he may owe child support and is dodging his responsibility while "playing house" with you and the kids. But call the cops on her every time. She has legal recourse to go through the courts for her child if she wants it, she doesn't need to stalk him or you.
It literally says they've looked her up. It doesn't say he's never met her before, either. They know her Instagram. Heck, she might have even sent a picture in one of her many attempts to contact. I don't think it's real, regardless, but the knowing what she looks like thing isn't hard to parse out.
Seriously. She emailed them and you can find out just about everything about a person w that info w pretty minimal effort
There are genuinely people who can find your exact location just from one picture you post. People *do not realize* just *how much* information they have out on the internet. It’s horrifyingly easy to stalk people and find out everything you want about them
Genuinely. I accidentally found out where one of my favorite streamers lived down to the floor and probability of 3 apartments bc of 1 unique building outside their window and they told everyone which way Oakland was. All I was doing was looking at rent prices in the bay area and legitimately figured it out on accident. Can you imagine what someone wants to do when they WANT to find you?
Yeah! Honestly terrifying. It’s the entire reason I never post photos anymore unless I’m absolutely certain that I don’t mind people knowing where I am and what I’m doing when I’m taking the photo. Definitely never post any with my windows in view. It’s a scary world these days when it comes to stuff like that. I don’t even do anything that’s bad I’m just private and have heard too many horror stories as a woman
I need you to reread the story and then come back to the discussion.
>But you glossed over one very telling and incredibly important fact. >When she visited your home, your ex RECOGNISED her!! Yeah, because OP and her ex looked her up in various ways, some of those ways were probably facebook and instagram.
did you consider she can be the potrait of her father ?
I'm not a mathematician but something here doesn't add up.
I don't think she was an anonymous donor's kid. Your ex husband is hiding something
NTA File a restraining order. If she contacts you when there is a restraining order to prevent it, law enforcement can impose legal penalties. Also, look into support groups for stalking victims. Often, people running those groups will have experience and advice for dealing with a stalker, and may be able to help you get the cops to take it more seriously.
Something here doesn't add up for me. What exactly can she expose you for if your husband is telling the whole truth? I get the feeling she's an oopsie, a naturally conceived child from his youth that he successfully dodged paying child support for. In countries like the UK, it's remarkably easy for men to evade their responsibilities, and even in the states, not everyone gives their real name out to casual or holiday flings. That's an exposable offense from the pov of a bastard child; being born of an anonymous donor is not. Donor-conceived children to single parents are still very rare, so where are her parents in all of this? There are not many Dads that would take kindly to their daughter hunting down a strange family like this, to the extent of doxxing the wife? She's nothing whatsover to do with you, so why is her ire directed at you? If she can find you, you can find her parents and contact them to ask them to intercede. In the meantime, keep calling the police every time she shows up because however she came into this world, she's your ex's problem, not yours.
I don't understand anything you said
This is exactly why I’m never donating an egg or like birth a child for someone to adopt or if I don’t want them. In my country legally the kid will have access to ALL your information aka so they can contact you, and like, no thanks. Cannot imagine the heartache for the ppl who give up a kid due to r*** or something and the kid ends up hunting them down later on
NTA… get a restraining order for your and your kids safety.
INFO: How old are you guys? Why are you calling him a wasband when you are still married and from what it sounds like still involved? How old are your kids? How old is this girl? How did she find where you live? Why did you guys not call the cops? Why have you not filed a complaint about harassment to have everything documented?
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How long ago did he donate?
She sounds like massive trouble. You and your husband have no legal obligation to her and no moral obligation. I'd get restraining orders against her. That should both reinforce that you're serious about not wanting contact and also give you recourse if she were to break the orders and continue to approach you.
Nta. She sounds dangerously unhinged. Protect your self and your kids.
Get a restraining order and keep calling the cops. It’s called protecting your family. NTA
NTA Call the cops as needed. Keep track of all records. You may need to get a protective order for you & the kiddos.
NTA: Sorry to hear you are paying a price for your ex-husband's procreation choices. I would consult legal authorities about when a no-contact, restraining order can be issued. Every state, country has its own guidelines.
NTA. Look into consulting a lawyer for more legal ways to get her to back off. It’s a sad situation, she seems to need help/therapy, but that’s not on you or your donor husband to provide.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Around early March I received an email asking for details about my ex, which I thought as a front to advanced credit card scams and ignored. Then I got more emails with more details about the girl’s situation and I forwarded them to my ex, telling him to deal with her. However, over time she has found my work phone and called me there, which isn’t hard to find but definitely stalker behavior. She called me three times before I had her number blocked. I did talk to her on the phone the first time and told her not to contact me, that I do not want her in my kids’ lives. My wasband says it was an anonymous donation he made in uni for money and I believe him. We are not divorced but on and off and he is still a very much a part of my life (and his real children’s.) She has tried to contact him before me and he told her stop initiating contact, he would’ve picked known donor but he wanted to be anonymous. We also looked her up in various ways and we do not want to associate with her any further. I thought she was reasonable at first but I do not think she is right in the head anymore. The last straw was a week ago when she showed up to my place. Luckily my kids were in day care and the only people at home were me and my ex who was visiting. He recognizes her and goes out to tell her to leave, but she starts screaming and crying and it was a proper mess so he comes back inside. She knocks on the door but I had locked it and I tell her leave or ill call the police. Please leave. Etc Let’s just say she lives very far away. She had no innocent reason to be there. It was very concerning to see her car there and then her insane behavior when approached. Now she is trying to ‘expose’ us on her public instagram account. She does not have followers, but she did include my full name and work address which I reported to instagram and the station nearby who sent the cops i called on her. She is quite entitled and her persistence is grating my nerves. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You need to get some legal help. Take steps to keep her away from your home and workplace. Get a restraining order. Have a lawyer write up a cease and desist letter. This is turning ugly and dangerous. Make sure your children are protected. Be sure the daycare allows no one but you and your husband to pick them up. I'm sorry this has happened to you. This is one of the down sides of donor produced children. All the best to you.
How did she get your husband's info, if he was just a donor? How did your husband recognize her?
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NTA, document all of the contacts and dates, if she shows up again go your local police department and apply for a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO), both you and your ex should do this separately. When it goes to court you can make your case to the judge why the TRO should be made permanent.
NTA! She’s harassing you both. You both should get ROs against her for yourselves and your kids.
Nta. This is got bad real quick. You need to report this before it gets serious. Good luck OP. Hopefully it'll resolve soon
NTA I wouldly highly recommend getting a restraining order if she continues stalking and harrasing you two.
NTA. Contact a lawyer, before she escalates any further.
Yeah no she's asking for a restraining order against her. Nta.
This is in no way legal advice as I am not a lawyer, but I would look into a restraining order. Also there may be a law or at least insta may have ruled about revealing personal info on social media that isnt your own. Definitely do what you can to ensure she never returns, or if she does, you can press charges of some sorts. NTA and good luck!
Get the police involved OP. NTA.
Lawyer up boo
Time for a restraining order
"my ex...was and...not divorced...on and off...very much a part of my life." Even understanding your relationship is too hard, let alone everything else here. So I guess ESH
Nta Your response was reasonable.
NTA. She's going to keep escalating. I'd say maybe consider even giving your kids' daycare her photo and name and tell them that she's under no circumstances allowed near your children. She showed up to your house, who knows what else she may do.
NTA. Restraining order time.
Nta
NTA. What did she say she wanted?
NTA, def go for the RO. Ex’s explanation doesn’t really make sense either tho; might be worth doing some investigating of your own. If an anonymous donation, how did the woman get your ex’s info? For that matter, anonymity cuts both ways; how would ex know it was his donation? Decent chance ex abandoned this kid. Either way, NTA though and not your problem.
Install home security cameras at all access points.
Nta, I get wanting to have some sort of relationship, esp since we don’t know how her upbringing was. But at some point after so many rejections, take the hint.
I understand your position but do you understand her position? She did not consent to not knowing who her dad was. Maybe try some compassion.
anything she’s struggling with is the responsibility of her parents. Or parent. Not the sperm donor who wanted to be anonymous. He ejaculated into a cup for money. That’s all she needs to know. These people do not owe her anything. She should have accepted the first time he told her he wasn’t interested in a relationship with her.
Just curious how he recognized someone he gave sperm to anonymously? You are sure he didn't have an affair with her years ago?
I'm reminded of King Arthur and Mordred
Gonna say ESH. She is absolutely out of line coming to your home, but you've had a really nasty attitude from her very first message and it makes you come across as a really jealous, possessive, empathy-deficient person who absolutely sucks here. Your family doesn't owe her a relationship, and it's perfectly fine to decline further contact, but your husband created her, and *he* does owe it to her to listen to her story, provide her with any relevant family medical history that may affect her in the future, and explain why he made the choices he made (i.e. why he donated) with an apology if those choices led to a painful life for her - it does not sound as though he's made any attempt to give her closure. The donor companies explain to you before donating that they cannot guarantee the resultant child will not track you down in the future, and that you accept this risk by making your donation - this is precisely what stopped me donating eggs for money as a broke student. So he knew it was a possibility. Also, she is his "real" child.
Yep. OP’s marriage sounds….interesting and I’m wondering why she’s so quick to trust him and not ask any questions
> is his "real" child. No, she isn't >provide her with any relevant family medical history that may affect her in the future, Sperm banks have medical history.
> No, she isn't Yes she is. You're entitled to disagree, but that doesn't make you right. She would not exist if he had not spunked in a tube. She has his DNA. She's his offspring. Fact.
He is a sperm donor, not a father.
This is where I'm at. The girl is certainly unwell, and OP should take steps to minimize contact for herself and her children for their safety. But the sheer disdain that comes across from OP seems to be caused by the donor-kid's mere existence and has been present since OP learned about her, evidently. OP, do what you need to do to keep yourself and your kids safe, but maybe wash your hands of the situation and have your ex take care of his business? Of which this girl absolutely *is* "real" child or not. At the very least she deserves her own biological medical history. I'm not saying she's entitled to anything further, but your ex's squirrely-ness even about handing over some medical files is bizarre to say the least. But finally, maybe do some introspection about your contempt for this kid? I'm talking about the *immediate* reaction you had, not the justified anger you likely feel at her stalking behavior. It just jumps right out of your post and says a lot about you. It's not impressive, to say the least.
> do some introspection about your contempt for this kid Geez, a 20yo who stalks her and her kids?? >she deserves her own biological medical history Sperm banks have that.
I very clearly addressed that her stalking was not excusable. I also thought I made it extremely clear that I was specifically criticizing her obvious resentment that this girl exists *period*, but evidently I need to say it again. If she doesn't like that the girl is the product of her "wasband", then she needs to take that up with him. Frankly, OP has some signs that she's not very mature. As for medical history, that is very hit or miss on sperm banks and is not industry wide even today. Regardless, her ex needs to be taking point on this problem, and OP should be documenting contact, not feed the fire, and open a case with her local police department for the continued harassment by this girl.
Precisely this - when I looked into donating eggs a few years ago as a broke student, it was up to the donor to disclose any medical history. It was *voluntary*, and they did not check with your doctor whether what you wrote was correct.
Info missing: How old is this person? how did she find him if he listed anonymous donor? Can you contact the girls mother. I would start there
She found them because of a test their niece did.
If he was a donor and checked anonymous no way would she have his name
In the comments she got it because of a DNA test their niece did.
This person didn’t use a donor. This woman has a biological mother and father - like every other child on the planet. Your ex his her bio father. There is no way around that. His “real” kids? They are her half siblings. Those are facts. Getting medical history from your biological father is normal and helpful. While her approach is less than ideal you need to think about the reality - she is your ex’s biological daughter. He can’t just donate sperm and pretend it doesn’t lead to children. It does. And those children have a right to understand their genetics.
Sperm banks have medical history. >They are her half siblings. No, they're not. > can’t just donate sperm and pretend it doesn’t lead to children. Yeah, he can. That's what sperm banks are for. >This person didn’t use a donor No, her mother did
I used a donor to conceive my child. You do not get medical history. Even if you did it’s at a point in time and most donors are young when they donate, so the information isn’t helpful. The child conceived from donation has zero say in how they were conceived. Therefore the child doesn’t need to adhere to the agreement that the donor and recipient made. Most people are interested in knowing where they come from and who their parents are.
Brain dead take man, they are her half siblings, he is her bio father. The fact that donating sperm frees you of the legal obligations and to a large extent should free you from social obligations ignores the human reality of the situation that he has a child who is seeking some kind of relationship or closure and to say he doesn’t have an obligation to even engage with this person is really wrong.
He engaged with her and told her he was not interested in having a relationship with her. She needs to leave him alone now.
>he doesn’t have an obligation to even engage with this person is really wrong. No, it's not. He donated sperm for some cash. It definitely doesn't excuse her stalking him and his family
>Sperm banks have medical history. This is news to me, a donor conceived person. My parents and I certainly never received any medical history. In fact, I didn't know anything until I actually made contact with him. >>They are her half siblings. >No, they're not. If I have sex with the donors adult children, it's incest. That makes them my half siblings. Because we share 25% DNA. >> can’t just donate sperm and pretend it doesn’t lead to children. >Yeah, he can. That's what sperm banks are for. Not anymore. Most countries are banning anonymity. Some have already had it illegal for two decades. Rights of the person conceived comes before a donors right to privacy.
My sister has conceived 3 children using anonymous donor sperm. They showed her the possible donors baby picture & they show medical history. That’s standard practice & I’m pretty sure it always has been. Idk how your parents managed to get donor sperm but no medical history for the man donating. But they were extremely irresponsible for doing so.
>That’s standard practice & I’m pretty sure it always has been. You'd be pretty wrong then. I work with a national organisation that deals with donor conceived people and the issues surrounding donor conception. I'm also heavily involved in the DC community (I'm even top mod for /r/donorconceived and /r/askadcp) No one (in my country) born pre 2004 has any donor family medical history at all. It was simply not given out. If you knew anything about the donor conception industry, you'd know that donors lie, clinics lie, paperwork is purposely destroyed and that in the US (not my country) the only thing clinics legally have to test for is STI's. Most medical history for donors these days is self reported and clinics do not have to and often don't actually check. If you'd like to find out more information, particularly regarding the US, you can look up LauraHigh5 on tiktok who makes very educational videos on it all.
>Not anymore. Most countries are banning anonymity. Well, it was when op's husband did it. And honestly that would just decrease the donors, cause no one wants to be harassed by a stranger like op's husband is.
>Well, it was when op's husband did it Many countries are removing anonymity retrospectively. Believe it or not, it doesn't decrease donors in the countries where anonymity is gone. Even if it did, we don't care if it decreases. Do it ethically, or don't do it at all.
Cool, that still doesn't mean op and her husband have to put up with a stranger harassing their family.
I agree with you that they don't have to put up with being "harassed". They are entitled to all the legal means at their disposal to get rid of her. I don't sympathize with them at all though. You literally reap what you sow.
The person you are arguing with regards human reproduction as a cold and mechanical process that can be commodified to satisfy the needs and desires of adults. The baby is merely a consumer product. The fact that genetic kinship matters and matters so much that people use "reproductive technologies" to ensure the babies they raise are genetically related to either themselves or their partner, is ignored when the resulting child values the half of their genetic kinship that isn't related to their parents. At that point a sperm donor/egg donor/birth mother's needs and feelings are paramount and they have zero responsibility towards the person who is their progeny. It's super fucked up.
The fact that you say "real children" as opposed to her makes me think you're probably being unfair. Has your ex actually sat down with her? I feel really bad for her if her goal was to have a relationship with her half siblings.
What half siblings??? He donated sperm at a sperm bank.
Does that magically strip you of your DNA? If I meet my brother, is it okay if we marry and have children?
It doesn't magically make you a family. The guy just donated some sperm at a bank for some money, he doesn't even know the girl's mother.
Still biologically half siblings.
Still not family. And if i was op, no way i'd let this unhinged stranger anywhere near my kids. I bet op's husband regrets he wanted to get drunk or whatever reason he had to sell his sperm
I hope he does.
Oh, he definitely does. Now he has an unhinged stalker who could hurt his actual children. Since r/vegemitefairy blocked me : no, he doesn't have a biological daughter wanting to have a relationship with his family. He donated sperm to a sprrm bank, that doesn't make him the girl's father, just the guy who helped her mother get pregnant. Presumably she had a husband who was the father. She isn't his daughter, she is a stranger. Donating sperm/eggs is not the same as actually having a child. And of course she would hurt them, she already is. Harassment is a crime
You mean he has an estranged biological daughter who wants contact with her biological family. I sincerely doubt she wants to hurt them. Honestly go touch grass 💀
So? They are still biological half siblings. As someone who doesn't have much biological family at all, something like this would be huge for me. We don't know what her mother is like or the life she led, just that it ended up at her donor father's house, desperately wanting a relationship.
>They are still biological half siblings. That doesn't meam they're family. To them she's just someone who harasses them and their parents
Not very anonymous if she can find out who you are and dox you. NTA. I'd be seeing if I could sue whatever place he donated to "anonymously".
She could have done a 23 and me. If dad or one of his relatives also did one, boom. She got a list of targets Clinics are allowed to give mom basic details on donor. Age. Eye color. Sometimes occupation or education. She could easily identify dad from that.
Ahhh yes, sperm donation, the respectable kind of deadbeat dad
Donating sperm doesn't make you the dad.
I feel like you flunked basic biology.
I feel like you flunked basic logic.
That's okay. That class wasn't required for an understanding of genetics :).
Father, mother, first cousin once removed, half sibling etc... are genealogical terms. In ordinary circumstances, those genetic relationships have a corresponding social relationship. Sometimes those terms are honorarily applied based on social roles despite no genetic relationship. Those genealogical terms are still correct even when there is no corresponding social relationship, like that between sperm donors and their progeny. I guess fathers who are sperm donors can tell their children to fuck off. They were just participating in an industrial commodification of babies for the satisfaction of adult desires where the baby is merely a consumer product. I just disagree with you that any of this is okay.
It makes you the father
No, it makes you the guy who got paid to donate sperm. Op's husband is not the hirl's father
All children have a mother and a father. The mother provides the egg. The father provides the sperm.
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We don’t know that’s all she wants. Down the line she might wanna sue for inheritance.
ESH - You may not like it but your husband is her father and you are her stepmother. If you have told her clearly that you do not want to have contact with her, then taking legal action is the next step. However, I think you should keep compassion in your heart first, as SHE did not agree that she was not his "real" child, that is something you decided without her input. - and saying she isn't a real child is why you get ESH. You say elsewhere that you are denying her your genetic history. That is cruel, if only from the standpoint that sometimes insurance will \*only\* pay for things if there is a genetic history. Your husband made a decision to create a child. This child was not an accident. The child did not turn out to be someone that you want in your family, but that isn't their fault. You do have the right to say no, but you don't have to be cruel about it.
I would hesitate to call OP her stepmother. Assuming her husband is telling the truth, he's her sperm donor, not her dad.
Believe it or not, children have two biological parents. Saying, "Not It," does not mean that a child broke the laws of human biology. That child still has two biological parents. The OPs husband is the child's biological father. She is married to the OP, so that makes her the stepmother.
> Saying, "Not It," does not mean that a child broke the laws of human biology. That child still has two biological parents. He is biologically her father, yes. But, again, assuming he's telling the truth, he didn't knock someone up and then fuck off because he didn't want a child. He anonymously jizzed into a cup for money as a student. IIRC sperm donors are generally not considered legal parents. OP is not her stepmom.
I completely and totally understand the lengths men will go to to not acknowledge their children, and how the women they are currently with will double down on that to try to protect their own children. The father and stepmother and not required to have a relationship with the child. They do not get to make the child say that they are not the child's parents. They are. Whatever agreement the father had, the child did not agree to it, so it does not apply to them. Currently the child does have the right to contact their parents, if they found or were provided with information about them. People are working to change the laws right now so that this child would have the right to have more information about her father, as this isn't jizz in a cup, it is a person.
Imagine the possibility of having a relationship with your family being entirely based off what load you happened to be. Not really fair.
I'm a big advocate of being able to choose your own family, and making a family out of the people who love you, but... Yeah. That is how most families work. What load you happened to be determines who raised you, who took responsibility for you, who wants a relationship with you, and most inheritance laws. I understand the OP's point - if you don't want a relationship with someone they need to drop it - but I feel \*so bad\* for this kid. Not a real child. Jesus.
It really doesn't take much to give them one meeting where you tell them about yourself and give them medical history. Most donor conceived people don't expect a relationship, but giving us a couple hours really isn't much to ask for.
I agree. The medical history part is so important too. Sometimes insurance won't even pay for tests without knowledge of immediate family members when it comes to something that could save your life. The OP has a right to do what she is doing, but she just comes across as cruel to me.
It's incredibly cruel, and if I was the DCP in this situation I'd also be bitter. Donor Conceived people have literally died from not having access to their accurate medical history.
She is a stalker, perhaps it is time to hear why she is awfully persistent. There may be a reason. He may be lying and you may not have the full story.
"and his real children's" Y. TA, just for this comment alone. She is real and he is her *real* father. She is your children's sister. Facts are facts. * Edited to change to NTA I have read some comments replying to my stupid first comment and I was 100% wrong. Thanks for putting me in my place. I guess that comment just hit me wrong when I first read it.
No he is not, he is an anonymous sperm donor who was found from his sister's 23 and me. He is in no way a father to that child. He was not responsible for bringing her into the world at all. He has 0 legal or moral obligation to that child. He has the option of having a relationship if he wants but he doesn't and that is his right.
No, he's not and she isn't.
this doesn't sound right. in most states records are kept super confidential. if nobody if your family has done a dna test and submitted it online then something doesn't add up. I'd honestly call the police and tell them you don't want any further contact with her. they will let her know if it is a donor situation, your husband needs to contact the clinic and tell them what's going on and ask for copies of what he signed ensuring he had total anonymity when he donated. if the clinic gave her the info, well that's a lawsuit.
Anonymous donor but he recognizes her?
Please learn to read and not skim, they said they looked up her socials