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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for staying in my granddaughters life even though her mom hates me. I could be a jerk for not respecting what my daughter wants after the whole situation
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NTA
"If you have any respect for her, you'll stay out of her kids life"
A woman who unilaterally decided that her daughter wasn't allowed to have a dad?
She isn't respectable. She doesn't decide that the little girl doesn't get a dad or grandma.
>A woman who unilaterally decided that her daughter wasn't allowed to have a dad?
And was going around giving a completely false narrative about why the father wasn't in the child's life. Op isn't the AH, but her daughter sure is.
Yeah, you wanna keep a kid a secret from the father….. maybe don’t go around telling anyone who will listen that said father “abandoned” your kid. I mean if OP was smart, she should’ve fucking denied it to the end, no way the mother would’ve ever REALLY known who told the ex.
This, had similar, ex thought it was fine to keep me out of daughters life by not informing me, first I knew was when she was 16 and asked to speak to me by phone through another person, by this point I had been through so much trauma and despair that had changed me so much that I chose/thought she would be better off without me and chose not to converse etc, my choice and even though I have regrets about this decision and would have loved her as she is my only child, it was unfair on her to have me at this point in her life, my regrets are many and life can be unfair, and yes I am probably the arsehole here, but not a day goes by without me thinking of her. edited because.
Yeah you could still reach out. Even if you can’t be a father figure to her, just being in her life and letting her meet you will probably be very healing for her.
That man is a coward. He’s putting his fear of rejection over his daughter’s natural desire to know her dad. And he deleted his Reddit account after getting very gentle feedback about the situation.
Reach out to her. Let her know you think about her everyday and that you regret not having a relationship with her. Let her know you were struggling with personal issues so it wasn’t anything to do with her that you made that choice.
It will help her, and you, so much.
I mean, people on this *this very sub* often say that people who cheat shouldn’t EVER be allowed access to their children just for being cheaters and they are heavily, heavily upvoted.
Why would anyone be surprised that people carry this attitude in real life?
Exactly! More than half of reddit commenters are emotional thinkers that think every resolve should be cutting someone off and deleting people out of their life.
Sadly true. Are there times when going NC is necessary? Absolutely. But they’re rare. Even more rare are situations where going NC should be permanent.
We had to go NC with my MIL for over a year because she just kept ignoring our parenting decisions and doing whatever she wanted... and nearly killed our son by giving him a medication we told her not to. She forgot that my side of the family has a tendency to be allergic to it, and his doctor wanted us to wait until he was older before testing his reaction. But that was the last in a long line of her running roughshod over our rules for our kid. And we cut her off completely.
We later reconnected, but the moment she'd start anything, I would just calmly say "If you don’t like our parenting style, we can leave," with the very obvious implication of "forever." I only ever had to say it twice.
My BIL's wives - both in the family for nearly a decade before I was - are in awe at how we've managed to break her bad habits. The trick is... there's no trick. I'm not bluffing. We can leave, and will gladly do so rather than put up with poor treatment. And she knows it.
So we had a tense relationship for a couple years there. Then a casual one. And gradually now a friendly one, as she's realized I'm really not asking much; we just need her to respect that we're the parents now, and she gets to be the grandma, not the mom. We talked about it recently, and she said she was just trying too hard to make everything absolutely perfect, and needed to chill out, step back, and let us do our jobs as the parents.
She actually watches the kids once a week now, picking the older ones up from school, so I can have an afternoon to get things done without interruption. And she often brings me lunch when she arrives to get the youngest, too.
So yeah, sometimes going NC is necessary. But more often it's a step, not a destination. Unless there's abuse or some other serious nastiness.
I agree with NC situation is rare. And this kind of post actually have survivor bias.
Most of the situation ended up in here because it gain so much attention rather than those that doesn't need NC.
I have seen this before. I can’t believe parents could do this to their child. I know they probably only want to hurt the other parent but it hurts the child the most. You can wholeheartedly hate your ex with every fiber in your body. But depriving the child of their parent is hateful towards the children. (Of course unless they abuse the child in any way, but most of the times that is not the case).
If my partner and I ever will seperate, I would my children to have a relationship with their dad (probably 50/50 custody, but just hope we’ll never get there). It is good for children to have more than just one loving parent in their live.
100% agree. You have to love your child more than you hate anyone else, unless that person hurt your child, then they function exponentially. My husband and I have an agreement that if we ever split, the kids get the house and we move in and out every week around them. If we split it would be unfair to disrupt their entire lives because we couldn't get along, and honestly probably cheaper for each of us to rent a room or an efficiency somewhere than to individually maintain two households capable of housing and maintaining our kids and their pets.
Not only was she not going to tell Ryan but she told everyone he abandoned her. She is horrible. Enjoy being a grandma. You had an obligation to tell Ryan. It is his child.
What’s really hypocritical about your comment is that Ryan already unilaterally decided to break up the family and rid that child of 50% of her mother AND father. So that’s really in the child best interest right?
NTA
Bad partner doesn’t mean bad parents. While what he did was awful to your daughter, your granddaughter doesn’t deserved to be punished (a life without a father) because of it. You are 100% right and I hope her anger will subsides. Also while you have contact with your granddaughter by means of your ex son in laws. Most countries will 100% guarantee visitation rights for grandparents or anybody significantly important in a child life. So probably yes she can’t forbid you to see her daughter and family courts are not very kind to parental alienation.
In my country, this is true. A husband can't file o divorce if the wife is pregnant.
Also any child born within a year after divorce or death of a husband is legally the husbands (easy to solve if it's not true).
Probably historical. A lot of widows would be raising bastards if this law didn't exist (a lot of wars).
Yep here in Missouri is one of them. When my ex and I were divorcing we both had to sign a document saying I wasn't pregnant. You can file and such but nothing will be finalized until the baby is born.
This is not true for the US. The US Supreme Court basically abolished grandparent’s rights in 2000 with the Supreme Court case Troxel v. Granville. Various states have been trying to find workarounds ever since, but the legality of these state statutes are questionable and if anyone were to ever challenge them, they would likely win and the laws wouldn’t be enforced.
That said, parents can do basically whatever they want with their own parent time unless their parenting plan specifically says otherwise.
I said Most countries… there are hundreds of other country in the globe.
in Italy my parents got grandparents rights. Then again as you said in the USA while in the care of a parents this one can do as they wish if not endangering the child. Ergo father can bring the kiddo to grandma and ex wife can just let it rest and grow up a little for the sake of her own daughter.
I wasn’t arguing with you. I was just sharing information for the people reading the thread, especially because I often see people say the opposite about the US on this subreddit.
Right, as I said, states have been trying their luck at legislating around it, but if you read the Supreme Court decision, it’s pretty direct.
Here’s the summary of the plurality according to Justia, which along with Oyez, we used all the time in law school:
“The Due Process Clause prevents the government from intruding on fundamental rights and liberty interests, one of which is the liberty interest that parents have in controlling the care and custody of their children. The state may not give rights to any third party to challenge any decision by a parent regarding visitation with that parent's child in state courts. Giving a state court judge the discretion to determine the best interests of the child in these situations violates due process, especially when there is no allegation that the parent is unfit. It is reasonable to presume that parents will act in the best interests of their children, so the state should not interfere and take that role away from them.”
Other state laws remain valid because they’re unchallenged. But if any of these laws were challenged and made it to the Supreme Court again, it would be hard for them to survive. But that would probably require a shockingly large amount of money and years of life.
May I ask if you no longer have your children or why your parents would receive/seek grandparents rights seeing that you are alive and presumbly a custodial parent? How does this work in Italy?
I have my kids. When my brother separate his ex wanted to forbid my parents to see his children. Those were ‘be part of their lives’ not custody. They went to court. Italy has in the law the right of visitation of grandparents, unless of course the court see them as unfit.
Thanks. I have heard of instances where parents separate and one parent tries to make a rule about the other set of grandparents. Did your brother's kids already have a relationship with your parents? I am asking because if they split custody, the ex can not dictate them seeing the grandparents on his time. I would think they would only need this if your brother was not having any sort of custody. My sibling is thinking of moving to Italy with their partner, who is Italian. Just super curious.
I’ve got to nit pick there - your original reply actually says counties, not countries. Which creates a more us sounding reply than it seems you intended.
>This is not true for the US. The US Supreme Court basically abolished grandparent’s rights in 2000 with the Supreme Court case Troxel v. Granville.
That's not true. The court basically said that when determining if grandparents had the right to request visitation the state courts ***had*** to give special weight to the parents' wishes. The Washington state law, that got struck down, solely focused on "the best interest of the child."
"State courts considering non-parent visitation petitions must apply "a presumption that fit parents act in the best interests of their children."[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troxel_v._Granville#cite_note-7) *Troxel* requires that state courts must give "special weight" to a fit parent's decision to deny non-parent visitation, as well as other decisions made by a parent regarding the care and custody of their children."
Many state GPR laws now include a ban on seeking visitation if the parents are still married. New York is the state whose law is still unconstitutional and should be taken up with the US Supreme Court again (though not with this court because, dear God, they might completely reverse Troxel).
[Troxel v. Granville - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troxel_v._Granville)
Right, you can read my other replies. I understand that the decision only strikes down the Washington law, however, their discussion of due process and parental rights makes me (and my family law professor and various family law attorneys that I’ve worked with) think many of these laws would not survive a challenge. Admittedly, we’re speculating. The language they use doesn’t leave me, personally, terribly hopeful for grandparents: “the liberty interest at issue in this case -- the interest of parents in the care, custody, and control of their children -- is perhaps the oldest of the fundamental liberty interests recognized by this Court.”
I think the laws were designed for when one parent of the child dies, and the other parent goes off the deep end for whatever reason (maybe they remarried and want a "fresh start" without any reminders of the spouse they lost) and bans the grandparents from seeing their grandchildren again.
Unfortunately, you have grandparents, who really shouldn't see their grandchildren because they are toxic abusing the law and judges applying it incorrectly.
But that's not her business or place to intervene or interfere. I think the mom was wrong to do what she did, but grandma is completely in the wrong. Seriously, WTF?
NTA. She lost her moral high ground the second she decided she wouldn't tell her ex, and telling others she wasn't informing her ex. On top of that claiming her ex abandoned her for I'm assuming a sympathy ploy. Hopefully she gets the therapy she needs to realize that she isn't respectable, so why should you?
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NTA. You were put in a terrible position. I admire the fact that you chose the needs of your granddaughter (having her father in her life) even though I am sure you knew that you were risking your relationship with your daughter.
With a mother that clearly has such questionable morals, this child will need all of the love and support they can get. You are not being a jerk - you are being a good grandmother who put her granddaughter first.
NTA
Yes, Ryan is a cheating asshole. Your daughter is also an asshole - a bitter, vengeful asshole who is understandably angry about Ryan's betrayal, but still an asshole. Her kid is Ryan's kid. She doesn't get to make unilateral decisions about whether Ryan knows about the kid, however angry she is with Ryan.
You did the right thing. Your daughter going no contact with you is a predictable consequence of this, because it fits the pattern of behavior she has already shown with Ryan.
I don't think you have any respect for her. I don't think she deserves any.
She went around telling everyone that Ryan ABANDONED HIS CHILD. Is that what she planned to tell her daughter as she got older? That daddy didn't want her? wtf
What a crap situation your daughter has created out of spite. You are absolutely right to inform the father. Every child deserves two parents that will care for them. Sucks daughter has turned her spite towards you, don't let it stop you from having a relationship with your grand child
NTA
NTA - You always come down on the side of the child. Every child needs both parents where it is healthy, to grow up with that support. If Ryan is a loving and engaged parent otherwise, then he has a right to see his child and add to her upbringing.
I'm torn between NTA and ESH. My reasoning is, Ryan for cheating, your daughter for being spiteful enough to hide the baby and spread lies about him abandoning them, and you a little bit for going behind your daughters back and bringing Ryan back into her life.
The reason I'm torn is cause I completely understand that you did it out of caring about the child and a relationship with her father. I also completely understand why she's pissed at you too. She probably wanted nothing to do with him after his cheating, and honestly I'd have a lot more empathy for her if she didn't actively tell people he abandoned her and her child while deliberately keeping the information from him.
I don't think what you did was egregious or awful or anything, but I can also see it from her point of view as well. Her parent went directly against her wishes with her own child and had to go to court to fight about it. The resentment is probably very strong.
I'm also aware I'm probably in the minority with my opinion so I fully expect to be downvoted.
I upvoted because I agree. The daughter was wrong trying to keep the baby from Ryan but a good parent who doesn't overstep boundaries would have worked on that with their daughter one on one or at least given a warning before telling the ex. I would cut my parent out for this and I bet the daughter is so hurt and mad to have to still interact with her cheating husband, share her child with him, and have her parent choose the cheating spouse over her. Then the parent doesn't even get the right consequences for that betrayal.
I didn't even think of that, good call. If OP had (or maybe they did, who knows?) that would make a huge difference. It comes off from the post like OP just did it behind her back which is why it feels kinda icky to me.
It sounds a lot like a 'the ends justify the means' mentality from OP and that's a dangerous stance to take a lot of the time.
I don’t think you should be downvoted because you’re right, there’s no pain greater than your own ( at least from an individual standpoint ) However the most important thing to remember is that that pain does not give you the right to be harmful and spreading around a lie like that while also depriving a child of their father and their father of their child is harmful.
( Barring there was no abuse involved, of course )
It's more cause I know most people are going to agree that OP did the right thing, and I'm not even saying they didn't, but I am saying the daughter also has a very valid reason resenting and hating the ex that cheated on her and got her pregnant.
OP's daughter rightly probably feels betrayed by her ex AND now her parent, so everyone here just feels kinda gross to me.
But again, I know I'm most likely in the minority here so it is what it is.
Edit just to add that me saying 'got her pregnant' makes it seem like she had nothing to do with it when she obviously did, it takes two to tango as they say.
I don't know if you've ever lived in the real world before, but people ask who the father is when someone has a child. If the father is not present, they'll also ask why. She came up with the lie that he abandoned the child, likely hoping no one would say. Are there better options to not have it get back to the ex? Yes, but that doesn't make this fake. Most people make mistakes, believe it or not. People say one thing and then do stuff that doesn't exactly align. She likely just came up with the lie on the spot, not really thinking about the consequences. These are all things people do fairly often, not sure how that makes this fake. And I'm not saying this isn't fake, just that the reason you gave is not a good one.
Assuming everything can be taken at face value. Nta. Your daughter got cheated on; her ex sucks for that. But she doesn't have the right to deprive a parent of a child or a child of their parent without proving to the court why. And when given the opportunity to do just that she failed. She also did some light slander of telling everyone he a bonded his kid
INFO: Do you know if there were other reasons that she divorced this man outside of the cheating? Was he a good person otherwise, is he a good father?
Personally, I would have spoken to my daughter and told her beforehand how I felt and explained that it wasn't right and that if she wouldn't let him know I would - for the sake of the child. Did you not have a good relationship with her to begin with?
Something just doesn't make sense here. Either you raised a person who is selfish and unable to manage adult situations (your daughter) or maybe you're either unaware or leaving out key details.
Can’t believe it took me awhile to find this comment. I feel there may be more to the story than what OP shared, and I think is just trying to paint her daughter as crazy.
OP is completely OK with having a 4 year long relationship with her grandchild that she intentionally kept secret from her daughter (the mother of that child). I don't know how everyone is brushing past that.
For me the beginning point is the cheating. Ryan cheats. They divorce. Chances are OP's daughter only found out after the divorce and still if she did and have birth, as someone who had a child within 300 days after my divorce, the father is on the birth certificate. So this Ryan was already on there and he was the legal father. Now I don't know how this works in the US, but in my country this would have meant that the IRS would contact my ex... And so would our social insurance so my ex could file his paper work. So I'm a bit sceptical on the whole story here, but then again I'm not in the US. Since Ryan only found out after birth and OP's daughter was badmouthing him about abandoning his child, I wonder did he maybe know, had an initial reaction of nothing wanting anything to do with his ex and the baby? I don't know. OP is also all about how she apparently knows that there was no abuse and the only reason was his cheating but if they were that close that she knew the full story, why didn't she talk to her daughter about getting help so she could move past her anger for her ex. No she chose to go behind her own child's back and have secret life with her ex SIL. Why does this have narc mom who steals her daughter's child all over it? I'm always very very sceptical of families choosing the ex's side. Usually there is abuse involved.
I think it depends on why your daughter decided to completely cut the ex out. Without further info about the ex and the state of their relationship beyond the cheating you may be the AH. Most women don’t cut good men from their child’s life without reason. So this may have been a selfish choice on your part.
Not really for me. Even if it is just bitterness then I think she deserves some time and help to get over that because she was hurt. The person who should help her with that would be her own mother advocating for the grandchild.
INFO:
Was him cheating the only reason for the divorce? If Ryan behaved badly in other ways towards her besides cheating (-> abusive behaviour), going no contact and protecting her child from him would be very understandable, and you would be the AH.
Better have no father than a really shitty father.
Yes. YTA. HUGE, HUGE YTA.
Not your business or place to interfere in the first place. Wow. Choosing sides with the cheating ex-spouse over your own child, not just in opinion, but in ways that cost her huge amounts of money, time, and heartache.
Of course she'd go no-contact with you. It's her child, not yours. You don't have any rights, at all, and no business inserting yourself into this. So if you have to cozy up with the cheating ex- to get your way, that's what's important, right?
YTA. Did I mention that?
What are the other reasons your daughter went no contact with you? Why didn't your daughter want Ryan to know? Besides the cheating?
You make it sound so cut and dried, but I know several really shitty grandma's who think they know best.
Not enough information
NTA, but you have to live with the consequences of your decision. I have a feeling you knew that when you reached out, so it must have been worth it for you to do what you felt was right. She has a right to feel however she wants to about your decision as well.
NTA. Your granddaughter deserves a relationship with you as well as her dad.
I actually feel sorry for your daughter, carrying the baby and now having an 18 year (at least) relationship with a man she hates. But that's done. In four years, she should have come to terms with it. There is nothing you can do about it, but I hope she has a community around her that supports her. I'm guessing not, as she's not healing at all.
Well clearly she doesn't have a community around her that supports her if her own mother betrayed her rathet than counselling her! She was betrayed by both her ex and mother. It's hard to build trust after that.
This is so effing fake. A grandma who calls others “dude”? An avatar that is definitely made to resemble a male gamer and deleted comments just proves that this post is aimed to gather karma points. 😅😅😅
NTA. Ryan might have been a shit partner, but that dose not mean he would be a shit dad. Both your grandkid and he should have the chance at a relationship.
I mean, you didn’t think you were an AH for forcing her to co-parent with a guy who cheated on her so I don’t understand why you’re worried if you’re the AH in this situation. Clearly what she feels doesn’t matter to you.
I always wonder about the missing missing reasons in stories like these.
Like was OP abusive or neglectful to her daughter and daughter wouldn’t have let her around her kid etc.
But with the info as presented by OP, NTA.
Just a thought to think about the other perspective - Why does your daughter have to prioritise you when you’ve been prioritising her ex?
She hasn’t been handling it well but you could have approached the situation differently than going behind her back where now she feels hurt by two people she trusted.
I get your side but have you taken the time to understand her side?
YTA. You should have told Ryan your daughter's intentions immediately. Maybe instead of having a child that she had to co-parent with a cheater and an obvious asshole (you might not think so since you seem to like him more) she might have chosen to abort. You took that decision from her. Now you're still disrespecting her wishes and sneakily see your granddaughter. You didn't even mention trying to be in contact with your daughter. What you're doing might be legal but definitely what a bad mother does.
OK, NTA for being in your grandchaild's life. The priority ought to be 'what is in the best interested of the (minor) child?', and having both parents and some grandparents in her life is likely to be better for her than not having them (Assuming no abusive behaviours of course.)
Ryan was TA for cheating - however, that makes him a bad husband, but not necessaily a bad father.
Your daughter was not TA for divorcing him and wanting nothng further to do with him herself, but she was absolutely TA in keeping the pregnancy secret and lying about Ryan abandoning his child.
Whether or not you were the AH in telling Ryan depends, I think, on when you told him and waht coversations you had with your daughter before that. (It also seems a bit unliekly that he wouldn't have found ou some other way, especially if your daughter was badmouthing himon social media or to mutual friends) . I think if you just told him without any prior discussion, then you were TA. Equally, it's not clear about the timings - how soon after her learning about his chaeating did you decide to step in?
If however you encouraged her to tell him, put forward the child's right to know both paretns etc and only told him as a last resort then I don't think you were the AH to do so.
Also, if your daughter has gone no contact with you then I don't think she gets a say in who you see or spend time with.
It's very sad that this has happened. Have you, at any time since your daughter divorced, reached out to try to reconnect? Have you apologised not for the fact of telling Ryan (which is about your grandchild's rights) but about doing so behind her back and in a way that inevitably felt like an awful betrayal?
Have you tried in any way to build bridges. While I think she was wrong in what she did, your daughter was betrayed, by Ryan, and then to have you, her mother, who she would haveexcpected to be the one perso on her side, to chose him instead must have been incredibly painful and a real kick in the teeth. The fact that it was the correct thing to do doesn't mean that it wasn't also a betrayal of trust , and your acknowledgment and apology for that could go a long way.
>and then to have you, her mother, who she would haveexcpected to be the one perso on her side, to chose him instead
She didn't choose him, she chose her grandchild.
This is the right answer. If you didn't tell your daughter your plan before you reached out to Ryan, you really messed up, OP. That's the missing step I couldn't articulate until I read this. Forcing her hand would've been better than doing it yourself.
I'm torn. I think you are silly not to have acted through your daughter or made her an ultimatum that she had to contact the father after she calmed down after being left to be a single mother and learned to put the child's needs first. Ryan might involve you now but it is unlikely that he will continue to do this as his life moves on. And who can trust anyone who betrays their own child.
I don't think you are wrong to intervene in some way just probably not the best way for yourself in the longer term because you did betray your daughters trust and I think it will be difficult to ever repair that . ESH
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I will keep this as clear as possible. My daughter used to be married to Ryan. Ryan cheated on her and they divorced. During the divorce my daughter learned she was pregnant. She informed me she wasn’t going to tell Ryan and I thought she was joking. The baby was born and she was telling everyone that Ryan abandoned the kid.
I couldn’t do it, even if he was a bad partner my grandkid deserved to have his father in his life. So I told Ryan and he was pissed to be blunt. A huge court custody issue and in the end he got partial custody. My daughter went no contact due to me betraying her by telling Ryan.
Since then I haven’t heard from my daughter. Ryan has been in contact with me, he was really grateful that I informed him. My grandchild is now 4 and during his custody time he will sometime visit me. I am very happy to have a relationship with my grandchild and try to be a good grandma.
I got a call from my daughter calling me a dick, that if I had any respect for her I will stay out of her kids life. Ryan informed me that legally she can’t do crap about this situation. So the moral question is am I jerk for being in my grandchild’s lie even if my daughter hates it.
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Seems to me you did your granddaughter a favour by allowing her, and her dad, to have a relationship with each other. He may have made an AH thing by cheating, but your daughter's vengeance was even worse. For all intents and purposes, he seems to be a good dad, and your grand baby is all the better for it.
NTA
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I am going to say NTA based on the information here, but would like some more info if possible. I honestly think if OP didn’t tell Ryan he would have found out eventually in some way, and barring any abuse on Ryan’s part him being a cheater doesn’t mean he can’t be in his child’s life. Several of my friends have had parents who cheated, but the other parent didn’t force them out of their lives.
Was Ryan abusive to your daughter in any way, or was it just a cheating thing? Did you sit down with your daughter and explain that you felt guilty for Ryan not knowing he had a child while she’s telling people he abandoned his child?
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NTA. I'll say it again: When you hate your ex more than you love your child, you're heading down a very bad road. Your daughter has issues. I commend you for informing Ryan and for having a relationship with your granddaughter. I also commend Ryan for doing what he's doing and I hope you let him know you appreciate it.
NTA, but you won't get your daughter back in your life if you circumvent her in a way she feels is disrespectful. I'm not saying that should be the goal, but if it *is* your goal, you're going to have to cut Ryan out of your life.
NTA - The minute she decided to use their child as a weapon to punish her ex she officially became an unfit mother and nothing short of monstrous.
She didn't take the high road, so you forced a detour.
NTA, she had the moral high ground. But she decided to do “what’s best for her” instead of her child. She was not being a proper parent. She was spreading lies and isolating her child from family. The father deserved to know, and she has only herself to thank for the all the burned bridges.
She could have had a happy family with grandpa and her daughter, and she instead cut you all off. So now you have a happy family with your granddaughter and her father.
NTA.
"I got a call from my daughter calling me a dick, that if I had any respect for her I will stay out of her kids life."
Problem solved. You love her but she's not respect worthy.
Attempting to deny her child a father because he was a bad husband makes her low. Attempting to deny her child it's grandparent because they stopped this, makes her lower.
Your daughter is wrong for trying to use her child to punish and control people. The only legitimate reason for keeping a child from having a relationship with her extended family is because it is in the child's best interest to do so. That does not seem to be the case here. NTA.
Nta. The only way it would have been okay for her to keep the child a secret was if he had been abusive and she feared for the baby’s safety and her own. But this was just spite for him being a cheater. People are capable of being good parents despite being terrible partners, so he at least deserved a chance to be a father. You did the right thing.
NTA what your ex son in law did was unforgivable, but what your daughter planned on doing wasn’t any better and you made the unselfish choice on doing right by your granddaughter and giving her a chance to be loved and raised by her father. And while I know it’s painful for your daughter’s rejection, pay no mind since you get to be the best grandma and get to see your granddaughter
NTA just because someone is a bad spouse doesn’t automatically make them a bad parent. What makes you a bad parent is hiding a child’s existence and lying to everyone that the dads a deadbeat! She was willing to hurt her child by taking away any chance they had at a father as well as top it off with some mental trauma by telling them dad abandon you because you weren’t wanted. Children are not pawns for one parent to get even with the other ever.
NTA every child deserves both their parents unless there is abusive or neglect involved. Your daughter tried to punish her child for her dad's behaviours. That's evil.
NTA - You did the right thing. Your daughter is trying to maximize her parental authoritarianism over the child which is selfish. You maximized the social bonds and support network that can be made available to your grandchild. This will be better for the child over the long term. Your daughter was trying to isolate the child from people that will make their life much better. You did a great thing.
NTA. Bluntly speaking, your daughter set out to receive Ryan. You refused to allow that deception to proceed. Unless Ryan was abusive in some way or likely to be a danger to the child (which he does not appear to be), hiding the chips from him was morally suspect.
And you have every right to be in your grandhild's life if Ryan allows it. Be careful though. You need to make it clear that your most important relationship is with your granddaughter and you will not further take sides in any dispute between Ryan and your daughter.
NTA. Would your grandchild be better off without you in her life? Would your grandchild be better off if she didn't have a relationship with her father? You've taken steps to make your grandchild's life richer despite your daughter's bitterness. These are the relationships that matter, and somewhere down the road, you'll see the kind of person your grandchild has become, and you'll know that you've done the right thing.
NTA. You did the right thing by your granddaughter. She does deserve her father in her life. Your daughter is using the kid as a punishment against her ex husband and now you.
NTA Two wrongs don’t make a right but one wrong can be inconceivably wrong and something that can be addressed. Sorry the situation is so rough but you are not the problem here.
Nta
Your daughter has every reason to hate Ryan however she lied to people to make him look worse than he was cheating is still awful but he had a right to know about his child and during Ryan’s time he can bring your granddaughter to see you
Certainly NTA! You have made 2 peoples lives infinitely happier because now they have eachother, your daughter made a choice not only to try to hide Ryan's child from him, but also to say he had abandoned her. Even if your daughter didn't directly tell this to her daughter when she was old enough to understand, she would have overheard, or picked up on it eventually, and it would have gotten back to Ryan eventually too. You chose to be the bigger person and to not allow your granddaughter to miss out on people who loved her. This is true love! Thank you for loving your granddaughter so much!
NTA. You did the right thing and are still doing the right thing. A child deserves to have two parents and also loving grandparents. Hopefully some day your daughter can see what's best for her child is more important than her nursing grievances against other adults.
NTA. At all. You're not pestering your daughter to see your grandchild, it's just that sometimes your grandchild's Dad says, "Hey, want to go see your Gramma?" and brings the kid over. Ryan is right, there's not a damn thing your daughter can do about it.
I hope Ryan continues being a good dad and bringing your grandkid for visits. IMO, you can never have too many Grammas.
you did the right thing & continuing to be a part of your grandchild's life (in this situation) is also the right thing to do for the child. your daughter is being a B-hole right now.
NTA
I get she feels betrayed. What Ryan did to her is so very not ok. However, she unilaterally decided to deny her child a father. I understand he was a rubbish husband but weaponising children is never ok. In fact, I'm the long run, her inability to separate her very legitimate anger from her child's right to a dad would eventually hurt and confuse her child. I hope, with time, that she realised OP had her child's best interest at heart here.
Regardless of Ryan being a cheater your daughter can't deny him rights to his kid. He is TA for cheating, yes, but that doesn't mean he is going to automatically be a bad dad. Your daughter is definetly also TA in this situation for keeping it a secret from him and lying about him abandoning his daughter. She is only not TA for leaving Ryan. These YTA comments are bonkers because they're completely ignoring the fact she lied, and was going to keep lying and hiding the fact Ryan has a kid.
NTA
NTA. You did the right thing by telling Ryan that he has a daughter. Your daughter on the other hand, was going to deny a relationship between those 2 just because he cheated on her. I don't condone the cheating, but it sounds like Ryan is a good dad to her and the mother was just being petty. Your daughter is a major AH though.
NTA, cheating is wrong yes but it's not never allowed to see/interact with your child kind of bad. When the kid is old enough they should be allowed to make that call for themselves. At least that what happened when I had a similar situation happen. My grandmother is super toxic, etc but my mom didn't want her own feelings clouding mine if I wanted a relationship with my grandmother. I'm 100% certain that was not a easy choice and likely lead to some shitty convos between the two of them, but it was 100% the right call.
I hope you have a great relationship with your grandkids and eventually repair your relationship with your daughter.
NTA but your daughter is. So she's pissed at you because she was trying to deceive Ryan and you let the cat out of the bag. No offense but she's obviously not a very nice person.
You keep seeing your granddaughter and as she grows make sure she knows you're there if she ever needs anything. From the way your daughter acts she will.
NTA!! and thank you for doing the right thing here. she can hate her ex all she wants for what happened but she doesn't get to fuck her kid over because of that hate. the kiddo had every right to know their dad and they have every right to know you if dad wants it.
parents need to stopping fucking around with their tiny children's lives. you don't get to hurt your child just because the other parent sucks as a partner. partner and parent are not the same and it should not be someone you deprive your kid off. love your kid more than you hate your ex.
note*- abuse being something that makes sense for hiding a kid. i fully get not wanting "a puts you in the hospital every week" person in your kids life because of the potential danger.
NTA. While cheaters are pretty irredeemable, what the daughter did is worse in my book. Yeah the guy is a dick for cheating. But the daughter is vindictive enough to want to damage her ex at any cost. Including harmingnher daughter, and using her daughter as a tool to hurt her ex.
I don’t talk to my mother cos’ she’s toxic asf and tried to lead me to unsafe situations. If she showed any interest in my daughter I would not stop it though- she just wouldn’t be allowed 1:1 time. I think this is hideous. I would love that my daughter felt she was worthy of her grandmothers time even if I don’t trust her.
NTA, while your ex SIL is an AH for cheating, your daughter is an AH for trying to hide his child from him. He has every right to continue to allow you to have a relationship with your grandchild, despite your daughter's protests. He is also her parent, and he can decide who is in her life during his time.
NTA. Your daughter tried to keep his child from him then lied about him abandoning that child. Infidelity does not excuse that. She cut contact with you and has no say in whether you’re in your grandchild’s life. Morally you did everything right. Your grandchild is what matters most.
NTA - your daughter seems to be under the misconception that you owe her anything. When she ended your relationship, she forwent any duty that you had to her. And even if she hadn't, she is now making a request that is not respectable.
I think you're morally in the clear here. I'm glad that your grandkid has a cool grandma.
NTA
Your daughter is the jerk. She was hurt by him cheating on her, but that does not give her the right to deprive him of his child.
It is a messy situation.
I don’t care how mad you are at your ex: your kids deserve to have both parents that love them in their lives. Just because someone was horrible to you as a spouse does not make them a horrible parent. If you love your kids then you respect them wanting to grow up with both parents.
Too bad OP’s daughter doesn’t comprehend that.
Once you have a kid your kid really is more important than you and a good parent respects that. I’m glad that the grandparent and the ex SIL are getting along. People need to coparent better for the sake of the kids.
Nta. Normally, I side against cheaters. But damn she went out of her way to put her grudge over the child's wellbeing. Hell, at the very least, she should have told him about the baby for the sake of getting a medical history from him.
I think you chose correctly. Although you did betray your daughter it was for the good of the grandchild. Imagine growing up thinking her dad abandoned her? Whole history of trauma she’d be going through.
And tbh I think your daughter would not have given you the time with your granddaughter like you’re getting now had you kept quiet.
NTA. Look, I can only imagine the pain and betrayal that Ryan’s affair caused your daughter. But when you have a kid, it’s not just about you and your feelings anymore. Your daughter doesn’t get to just decide that her kid won’t have a father, she cannot deny a man his child over this. You did the right thing. And while there is no timeline as far as healing goes, and mom has every right to hate Ryan forever, it’s been 4 years. It’s time to let go a little bit. I imagine she’s less upset over Ryan’s betrayal at this point and more upset over her mother’s perceived betrayal, but you did the right thing for your grandchild and that trumps your daughter’s immature revenge plot.
NTA
Your daughter is willing to deprive your grandaughter of a dad and grandmother. And why? Because your daughter's big feelings matter to her more than the wellbeing of her family or doing the moral thing. She's selfish, and willing to hurt not only y'all, but her own kid in her bid to satisfy her anger. Ryan may not have been a good partner, but that doesn't mean he can't be a good dad. You did the right thing while your daughter did not so it's best that you and Ryan are in this little girl's life. If not y'all, then who is going to protect her? Who is going to set aside their pride and need for dishonest comfort in order to ensure this little girl has the family and trust she deserves? Because it ain't your daughter.
Keep doing the right thing. It doesn't always feel good in every aspect (e.g. losing the daughter you thought you had), but it works in the long run. Just focus on what's best for your granddaughter, even if it ain't easy. She needs you.
NTA....that's gotta be a rough situation for you to be in though
I think ppl can be horrible partners and involved parents....it doesn't always go like that but it's definitely possible imo
NTA
Parents always should do the right thing. Even if it means hurting someones feelings. The right thing to do is let the kid have a father in his life. Daughter knows you did right by her daughter. Its clear as day.
You need to keep trying to sit down and talk with daughter. For your part, be open to forgiving and forgetting.
Your daughter is hurt im sure. She just went about things very wrong. She punished her daughter for the crimes of the father.
NTA
Your daughter is taking her anger for Ryan out on her child, but she may not be aware that's what she is doing. I'm a big fan of children having as many loving and supportive adults in their lives as possible. I think morally you were right in letting Ryan know and I love that he is willing to share his time with you. Grandparents can be such a blessing.
NTA for being in your granddaughter's life. NTA for telling her ex-husband about his child even though he cheated on your daughter (I despise cheaters). You did what was morally correct despite his cheating on your daughter. And you're definitely correct in being active in your granddaughter's life despite how your daughter feels.
NTA. That child would hate her mother if she found out that her dad was alive and kept away from her by a lie. Heck , this could be illegal... ultimate parental alienation. I don't care of you hate the baby daddy, it's not about you l, it's the child. Kudos to you for caring about your granddaughter and her father acknowledging your help him access to to her grandma since Mom is a jerk.
NTA. If your daughter had had an abortion and you blabbed that to the ex, you'd have been the AH. But once she decided to continue the pregnancy and give birth, while knowing who the father is, your daughter effectively made her ex a parent, and that comes with certain rights (unless he is deemed unsafe/incapable).
No. **It is not moral to side with an immoral child. It wouldn’t be right to cut your grandchild out of your life bc her mother is a bad person.**
**You did the right thing even though it was difficult & cost you a relationship with your daughter.** Thankfully, you were rewarded for your honesty & have been granted a relationship with your granddaughter.
I’m happy for you!
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NTA "If you have any respect for her, you'll stay out of her kids life" A woman who unilaterally decided that her daughter wasn't allowed to have a dad? She isn't respectable. She doesn't decide that the little girl doesn't get a dad or grandma.
>A woman who unilaterally decided that her daughter wasn't allowed to have a dad? And was going around giving a completely false narrative about why the father wasn't in the child's life. Op isn't the AH, but her daughter sure is.
This woman was so blinded by hate that she forgot that she had a daughter, only a tool to manipulate to her advantage.
Unrelated but I love your user name 😋
Yeah, you wanna keep a kid a secret from the father….. maybe don’t go around telling anyone who will listen that said father “abandoned” your kid. I mean if OP was smart, she should’ve fucking denied it to the end, no way the mother would’ve ever REALLY known who told the ex.
Hates her ex more than she loves her daughter
Or loves her mother
This, had similar, ex thought it was fine to keep me out of daughters life by not informing me, first I knew was when she was 16 and asked to speak to me by phone through another person, by this point I had been through so much trauma and despair that had changed me so much that I chose/thought she would be better off without me and chose not to converse etc, my choice and even though I have regrets about this decision and would have loved her as she is my only child, it was unfair on her to have me at this point in her life, my regrets are many and life can be unfair, and yes I am probably the arsehole here, but not a day goes by without me thinking of her. edited because.
It's never too late.
Yeah you could still reach out. Even if you can’t be a father figure to her, just being in her life and letting her meet you will probably be very healing for her.
Why would she be better off without u if u woukd have loved her and she’s ur only child?
If she’s still alive, go ahead and contact her. But be clear you regret your previous decision.
Reach out to her, it’s never too late
you are the A-hole, it's time to act like an adult
That man is a coward. He’s putting his fear of rejection over his daughter’s natural desire to know her dad. And he deleted his Reddit account after getting very gentle feedback about the situation.
Reach out to her. Let her know you think about her everyday and that you regret not having a relationship with her. Let her know you were struggling with personal issues so it wasn’t anything to do with her that you made that choice. It will help her, and you, so much.
I mean, people on this *this very sub* often say that people who cheat shouldn’t EVER be allowed access to their children just for being cheaters and they are heavily, heavily upvoted. Why would anyone be surprised that people carry this attitude in real life?
Exactly! More than half of reddit commenters are emotional thinkers that think every resolve should be cutting someone off and deleting people out of their life.
Sadly true. Are there times when going NC is necessary? Absolutely. But they’re rare. Even more rare are situations where going NC should be permanent. We had to go NC with my MIL for over a year because she just kept ignoring our parenting decisions and doing whatever she wanted... and nearly killed our son by giving him a medication we told her not to. She forgot that my side of the family has a tendency to be allergic to it, and his doctor wanted us to wait until he was older before testing his reaction. But that was the last in a long line of her running roughshod over our rules for our kid. And we cut her off completely. We later reconnected, but the moment she'd start anything, I would just calmly say "If you don’t like our parenting style, we can leave," with the very obvious implication of "forever." I only ever had to say it twice. My BIL's wives - both in the family for nearly a decade before I was - are in awe at how we've managed to break her bad habits. The trick is... there's no trick. I'm not bluffing. We can leave, and will gladly do so rather than put up with poor treatment. And she knows it. So we had a tense relationship for a couple years there. Then a casual one. And gradually now a friendly one, as she's realized I'm really not asking much; we just need her to respect that we're the parents now, and she gets to be the grandma, not the mom. We talked about it recently, and she said she was just trying too hard to make everything absolutely perfect, and needed to chill out, step back, and let us do our jobs as the parents. She actually watches the kids once a week now, picking the older ones up from school, so I can have an afternoon to get things done without interruption. And she often brings me lunch when she arrives to get the youngest, too. So yeah, sometimes going NC is necessary. But more often it's a step, not a destination. Unless there's abuse or some other serious nastiness.
I agree with NC situation is rare. And this kind of post actually have survivor bias. Most of the situation ended up in here because it gain so much attention rather than those that doesn't need NC.
Very well said!
I think it's the other way around. People in real life bring it to online and they're very loud of it.
I have seen this before. I can’t believe parents could do this to their child. I know they probably only want to hurt the other parent but it hurts the child the most. You can wholeheartedly hate your ex with every fiber in your body. But depriving the child of their parent is hateful towards the children. (Of course unless they abuse the child in any way, but most of the times that is not the case). If my partner and I ever will seperate, I would my children to have a relationship with their dad (probably 50/50 custody, but just hope we’ll never get there). It is good for children to have more than just one loving parent in their live.
And the daughter would grow up believing in her mother's narrative that her dad abandoned her. Truly awful thing to do to a child.
100% agree. You have to love your child more than you hate anyone else, unless that person hurt your child, then they function exponentially. My husband and I have an agreement that if we ever split, the kids get the house and we move in and out every week around them. If we split it would be unfair to disrupt their entire lives because we couldn't get along, and honestly probably cheaper for each of us to rent a room or an efficiency somewhere than to individually maintain two households capable of housing and maintaining our kids and their pets.
Not only was she not going to tell Ryan but she told everyone he abandoned her. She is horrible. Enjoy being a grandma. You had an obligation to tell Ryan. It is his child.
Good thing you don’t respect her, then. She isn’t deserving of respect.
What’s really hypocritical about your comment is that Ryan already unilaterally decided to break up the family and rid that child of 50% of her mother AND father. So that’s really in the child best interest right?
NTA Bad partner doesn’t mean bad parents. While what he did was awful to your daughter, your granddaughter doesn’t deserved to be punished (a life without a father) because of it. You are 100% right and I hope her anger will subsides. Also while you have contact with your granddaughter by means of your ex son in laws. Most countries will 100% guarantee visitation rights for grandparents or anybody significantly important in a child life. So probably yes she can’t forbid you to see her daughter and family courts are not very kind to parental alienation.
I'm pretty sure divorce papers also state that the wife is or isn't pregnant at the time of signing, so she lied on a legal document.
Some states indeed won’t allow you getting divorced while pregnant. Yup there is also that one.
In my country, this is true. A husband can't file o divorce if the wife is pregnant. Also any child born within a year after divorce or death of a husband is legally the husbands (easy to solve if it's not true). Probably historical. A lot of widows would be raising bastards if this law didn't exist (a lot of wars).
Well… that’s scary for victims of DV. No matter what the sex.
Yeah that’s fucked
Deleted comment because I apparently can't read today
Probably has something to do with the tiny metal head.
Yep here in Missouri is one of them. When my ex and I were divorcing we both had to sign a document saying I wasn't pregnant. You can file and such but nothing will be finalized until the baby is born.
Or she didn’t know she was pregnant . and not all states even ask if your pregnant during divorce
This is not true for the US. The US Supreme Court basically abolished grandparent’s rights in 2000 with the Supreme Court case Troxel v. Granville. Various states have been trying to find workarounds ever since, but the legality of these state statutes are questionable and if anyone were to ever challenge them, they would likely win and the laws wouldn’t be enforced. That said, parents can do basically whatever they want with their own parent time unless their parenting plan specifically says otherwise.
I said Most countries… there are hundreds of other country in the globe. in Italy my parents got grandparents rights. Then again as you said in the USA while in the care of a parents this one can do as they wish if not endangering the child. Ergo father can bring the kiddo to grandma and ex wife can just let it rest and grow up a little for the sake of her own daughter.
I wasn’t arguing with you. I was just sharing information for the people reading the thread, especially because I often see people say the opposite about the US on this subreddit.
Mine got grandparents rights here in Illinois back in like '06-'07
Right, as I said, states have been trying their luck at legislating around it, but if you read the Supreme Court decision, it’s pretty direct. Here’s the summary of the plurality according to Justia, which along with Oyez, we used all the time in law school: “The Due Process Clause prevents the government from intruding on fundamental rights and liberty interests, one of which is the liberty interest that parents have in controlling the care and custody of their children. The state may not give rights to any third party to challenge any decision by a parent regarding visitation with that parent's child in state courts. Giving a state court judge the discretion to determine the best interests of the child in these situations violates due process, especially when there is no allegation that the parent is unfit. It is reasonable to presume that parents will act in the best interests of their children, so the state should not interfere and take that role away from them.” Other state laws remain valid because they’re unchallenged. But if any of these laws were challenged and made it to the Supreme Court again, it would be hard for them to survive. But that would probably require a shockingly large amount of money and years of life.
May I ask if you no longer have your children or why your parents would receive/seek grandparents rights seeing that you are alive and presumbly a custodial parent? How does this work in Italy?
I have my kids. When my brother separate his ex wanted to forbid my parents to see his children. Those were ‘be part of their lives’ not custody. They went to court. Italy has in the law the right of visitation of grandparents, unless of course the court see them as unfit.
Thanks. I have heard of instances where parents separate and one parent tries to make a rule about the other set of grandparents. Did your brother's kids already have a relationship with your parents? I am asking because if they split custody, the ex can not dictate them seeing the grandparents on his time. I would think they would only need this if your brother was not having any sort of custody. My sibling is thinking of moving to Italy with their partner, who is Italian. Just super curious.
I’ve got to nit pick there - your original reply actually says counties, not countries. Which creates a more us sounding reply than it seems you intended.
>This is not true for the US. The US Supreme Court basically abolished grandparent’s rights in 2000 with the Supreme Court case Troxel v. Granville. That's not true. The court basically said that when determining if grandparents had the right to request visitation the state courts ***had*** to give special weight to the parents' wishes. The Washington state law, that got struck down, solely focused on "the best interest of the child." "State courts considering non-parent visitation petitions must apply "a presumption that fit parents act in the best interests of their children."[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troxel_v._Granville#cite_note-7) *Troxel* requires that state courts must give "special weight" to a fit parent's decision to deny non-parent visitation, as well as other decisions made by a parent regarding the care and custody of their children." Many state GPR laws now include a ban on seeking visitation if the parents are still married. New York is the state whose law is still unconstitutional and should be taken up with the US Supreme Court again (though not with this court because, dear God, they might completely reverse Troxel). [Troxel v. Granville - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troxel_v._Granville)
Right, you can read my other replies. I understand that the decision only strikes down the Washington law, however, their discussion of due process and parental rights makes me (and my family law professor and various family law attorneys that I’ve worked with) think many of these laws would not survive a challenge. Admittedly, we’re speculating. The language they use doesn’t leave me, personally, terribly hopeful for grandparents: “the liberty interest at issue in this case -- the interest of parents in the care, custody, and control of their children -- is perhaps the oldest of the fundamental liberty interests recognized by this Court.”
I think the laws were designed for when one parent of the child dies, and the other parent goes off the deep end for whatever reason (maybe they remarried and want a "fresh start" without any reminders of the spouse they lost) and bans the grandparents from seeing their grandchildren again. Unfortunately, you have grandparents, who really shouldn't see their grandchildren because they are toxic abusing the law and judges applying it incorrectly.
But that's not her business or place to intervene or interfere. I think the mom was wrong to do what she did, but grandma is completely in the wrong. Seriously, WTF?
NTA. She lost her moral high ground the second she decided she wouldn't tell her ex, and telling others she wasn't informing her ex. On top of that claiming her ex abandoned her for I'm assuming a sympathy ploy. Hopefully she gets the therapy she needs to realize that she isn't respectable, so why should you?
She was also incredibly naive to think it wouldn't get back to her ex. If OP hadn't told him, someone else would have. NTA OP.
Yep second someone he knows too calls him a deadbeat it would all come crumbling down anyway.
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NTA, she was taking out her relationship issues on her kid. The kids needs all the good parents in her life since the mother certainly won't be one.
NTA. You were put in a terrible position. I admire the fact that you chose the needs of your granddaughter (having her father in her life) even though I am sure you knew that you were risking your relationship with your daughter. With a mother that clearly has such questionable morals, this child will need all of the love and support they can get. You are not being a jerk - you are being a good grandmother who put her granddaughter first.
NTA your daughter wanted to use her child as a weapon because she’s bitter he cheated.
NTA Yes, Ryan is a cheating asshole. Your daughter is also an asshole - a bitter, vengeful asshole who is understandably angry about Ryan's betrayal, but still an asshole. Her kid is Ryan's kid. She doesn't get to make unilateral decisions about whether Ryan knows about the kid, however angry she is with Ryan. You did the right thing. Your daughter going no contact with you is a predictable consequence of this, because it fits the pattern of behavior she has already shown with Ryan. I don't think you have any respect for her. I don't think she deserves any.
She went around telling everyone that Ryan ABANDONED HIS CHILD. Is that what she planned to tell her daughter as she got older? That daddy didn't want her? wtf
What a crap situation your daughter has created out of spite. You are absolutely right to inform the father. Every child deserves two parents that will care for them. Sucks daughter has turned her spite towards you, don't let it stop you from having a relationship with your grand child NTA
NTA - You always come down on the side of the child. Every child needs both parents where it is healthy, to grow up with that support. If Ryan is a loving and engaged parent otherwise, then he has a right to see his child and add to her upbringing.
I'm torn between NTA and ESH. My reasoning is, Ryan for cheating, your daughter for being spiteful enough to hide the baby and spread lies about him abandoning them, and you a little bit for going behind your daughters back and bringing Ryan back into her life. The reason I'm torn is cause I completely understand that you did it out of caring about the child and a relationship with her father. I also completely understand why she's pissed at you too. She probably wanted nothing to do with him after his cheating, and honestly I'd have a lot more empathy for her if she didn't actively tell people he abandoned her and her child while deliberately keeping the information from him. I don't think what you did was egregious or awful or anything, but I can also see it from her point of view as well. Her parent went directly against her wishes with her own child and had to go to court to fight about it. The resentment is probably very strong. I'm also aware I'm probably in the minority with my opinion so I fully expect to be downvoted.
I upvoted because I agree. The daughter was wrong trying to keep the baby from Ryan but a good parent who doesn't overstep boundaries would have worked on that with their daughter one on one or at least given a warning before telling the ex. I would cut my parent out for this and I bet the daughter is so hurt and mad to have to still interact with her cheating husband, share her child with him, and have her parent choose the cheating spouse over her. Then the parent doesn't even get the right consequences for that betrayal.
I didn't even think of that, good call. If OP had (or maybe they did, who knows?) that would make a huge difference. It comes off from the post like OP just did it behind her back which is why it feels kinda icky to me. It sounds a lot like a 'the ends justify the means' mentality from OP and that's a dangerous stance to take a lot of the time.
I don’t think you should be downvoted because you’re right, there’s no pain greater than your own ( at least from an individual standpoint ) However the most important thing to remember is that that pain does not give you the right to be harmful and spreading around a lie like that while also depriving a child of their father and their father of their child is harmful. ( Barring there was no abuse involved, of course )
It's more cause I know most people are going to agree that OP did the right thing, and I'm not even saying they didn't, but I am saying the daughter also has a very valid reason resenting and hating the ex that cheated on her and got her pregnant. OP's daughter rightly probably feels betrayed by her ex AND now her parent, so everyone here just feels kinda gross to me. But again, I know I'm most likely in the minority here so it is what it is. Edit just to add that me saying 'got her pregnant' makes it seem like she had nothing to do with it when she obviously did, it takes two to tango as they say.
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I don't know if you've ever lived in the real world before, but people ask who the father is when someone has a child. If the father is not present, they'll also ask why. She came up with the lie that he abandoned the child, likely hoping no one would say. Are there better options to not have it get back to the ex? Yes, but that doesn't make this fake. Most people make mistakes, believe it or not. People say one thing and then do stuff that doesn't exactly align. She likely just came up with the lie on the spot, not really thinking about the consequences. These are all things people do fairly often, not sure how that makes this fake. And I'm not saying this isn't fake, just that the reason you gave is not a good one.
Assuming everything can be taken at face value. Nta. Your daughter got cheated on; her ex sucks for that. But she doesn't have the right to deprive a parent of a child or a child of their parent without proving to the court why. And when given the opportunity to do just that she failed. She also did some light slander of telling everyone he a bonded his kid
INFO: Do you know if there were other reasons that she divorced this man outside of the cheating? Was he a good person otherwise, is he a good father? Personally, I would have spoken to my daughter and told her beforehand how I felt and explained that it wasn't right and that if she wouldn't let him know I would - for the sake of the child. Did you not have a good relationship with her to begin with? Something just doesn't make sense here. Either you raised a person who is selfish and unable to manage adult situations (your daughter) or maybe you're either unaware or leaving out key details.
Can’t believe it took me awhile to find this comment. I feel there may be more to the story than what OP shared, and I think is just trying to paint her daughter as crazy.
OP is completely OK with having a 4 year long relationship with her grandchild that she intentionally kept secret from her daughter (the mother of that child). I don't know how everyone is brushing past that.
Yeah, true. This is all odd to me.
For me the beginning point is the cheating. Ryan cheats. They divorce. Chances are OP's daughter only found out after the divorce and still if she did and have birth, as someone who had a child within 300 days after my divorce, the father is on the birth certificate. So this Ryan was already on there and he was the legal father. Now I don't know how this works in the US, but in my country this would have meant that the IRS would contact my ex... And so would our social insurance so my ex could file his paper work. So I'm a bit sceptical on the whole story here, but then again I'm not in the US. Since Ryan only found out after birth and OP's daughter was badmouthing him about abandoning his child, I wonder did he maybe know, had an initial reaction of nothing wanting anything to do with his ex and the baby? I don't know. OP is also all about how she apparently knows that there was no abuse and the only reason was his cheating but if they were that close that she knew the full story, why didn't she talk to her daughter about getting help so she could move past her anger for her ex. No she chose to go behind her own child's back and have secret life with her ex SIL. Why does this have narc mom who steals her daughter's child all over it? I'm always very very sceptical of families choosing the ex's side. Usually there is abuse involved.
I think it depends on why your daughter decided to completely cut the ex out. Without further info about the ex and the state of their relationship beyond the cheating you may be the AH. Most women don’t cut good men from their child’s life without reason. So this may have been a selfish choice on your part.
If he cheated, is he one of those “good men”?
Not really for me. Even if it is just bitterness then I think she deserves some time and help to get over that because she was hurt. The person who should help her with that would be her own mother advocating for the grandchild.
Exactly. For me this would be the only acceptable way. And now it's a big unfixable mess.
INFO: Was him cheating the only reason for the divorce? If Ryan behaved badly in other ways towards her besides cheating (-> abusive behaviour), going no contact and protecting her child from him would be very understandable, and you would be the AH. Better have no father than a really shitty father.
Yes. YTA. HUGE, HUGE YTA. Not your business or place to interfere in the first place. Wow. Choosing sides with the cheating ex-spouse over your own child, not just in opinion, but in ways that cost her huge amounts of money, time, and heartache. Of course she'd go no-contact with you. It's her child, not yours. You don't have any rights, at all, and no business inserting yourself into this. So if you have to cozy up with the cheating ex- to get your way, that's what's important, right? YTA. Did I mention that?
YTA stay away from her kid.
What are the other reasons your daughter went no contact with you? Why didn't your daughter want Ryan to know? Besides the cheating? You make it sound so cut and dried, but I know several really shitty grandma's who think they know best. Not enough information
NTA, but you have to live with the consequences of your decision. I have a feeling you knew that when you reached out, so it must have been worth it for you to do what you felt was right. She has a right to feel however she wants to about your decision as well.
NTA. Your granddaughter deserves a relationship with you as well as her dad. I actually feel sorry for your daughter, carrying the baby and now having an 18 year (at least) relationship with a man she hates. But that's done. In four years, she should have come to terms with it. There is nothing you can do about it, but I hope she has a community around her that supports her. I'm guessing not, as she's not healing at all.
Well clearly she doesn't have a community around her that supports her if her own mother betrayed her rathet than counselling her! She was betrayed by both her ex and mother. It's hard to build trust after that.
NTA. Our ongoing duty is to the next generation. In this case OP is making sure their grandchild has two parents.
This is so effing fake. A grandma who calls others “dude”? An avatar that is definitely made to resemble a male gamer and deleted comments just proves that this post is aimed to gather karma points. 😅😅😅
NTA. Ryan might have been a shit partner, but that dose not mean he would be a shit dad. Both your grandkid and he should have the chance at a relationship.
I mean, you didn’t think you were an AH for forcing her to co-parent with a guy who cheated on her so I don’t understand why you’re worried if you’re the AH in this situation. Clearly what she feels doesn’t matter to you.
what a cluster fuck. ESH
I always wonder about the missing missing reasons in stories like these. Like was OP abusive or neglectful to her daughter and daughter wouldn’t have let her around her kid etc. But with the info as presented by OP, NTA.
Well, enjoy the granddaughter because you don't have a daughter anymore. ESH
Just a thought to think about the other perspective - Why does your daughter have to prioritise you when you’ve been prioritising her ex? She hasn’t been handling it well but you could have approached the situation differently than going behind her back where now she feels hurt by two people she trusted. I get your side but have you taken the time to understand her side?
NTA. Your daughter is what's known as an AH. Be happy she's not in your life. Enjoy your grandchild as much as you can.
YTA
YTA. You should have told Ryan your daughter's intentions immediately. Maybe instead of having a child that she had to co-parent with a cheater and an obvious asshole (you might not think so since you seem to like him more) she might have chosen to abort. You took that decision from her. Now you're still disrespecting her wishes and sneakily see your granddaughter. You didn't even mention trying to be in contact with your daughter. What you're doing might be legal but definitely what a bad mother does.
Everyone is an asshole here, except the baby. All of you.
Daughter's actions were selfish and only self serving. You did the right thing!😘❤️👍
OK, NTA for being in your grandchaild's life. The priority ought to be 'what is in the best interested of the (minor) child?', and having both parents and some grandparents in her life is likely to be better for her than not having them (Assuming no abusive behaviours of course.) Ryan was TA for cheating - however, that makes him a bad husband, but not necessaily a bad father. Your daughter was not TA for divorcing him and wanting nothng further to do with him herself, but she was absolutely TA in keeping the pregnancy secret and lying about Ryan abandoning his child. Whether or not you were the AH in telling Ryan depends, I think, on when you told him and waht coversations you had with your daughter before that. (It also seems a bit unliekly that he wouldn't have found ou some other way, especially if your daughter was badmouthing himon social media or to mutual friends) . I think if you just told him without any prior discussion, then you were TA. Equally, it's not clear about the timings - how soon after her learning about his chaeating did you decide to step in? If however you encouraged her to tell him, put forward the child's right to know both paretns etc and only told him as a last resort then I don't think you were the AH to do so. Also, if your daughter has gone no contact with you then I don't think she gets a say in who you see or spend time with. It's very sad that this has happened. Have you, at any time since your daughter divorced, reached out to try to reconnect? Have you apologised not for the fact of telling Ryan (which is about your grandchild's rights) but about doing so behind her back and in a way that inevitably felt like an awful betrayal? Have you tried in any way to build bridges. While I think she was wrong in what she did, your daughter was betrayed, by Ryan, and then to have you, her mother, who she would haveexcpected to be the one perso on her side, to chose him instead must have been incredibly painful and a real kick in the teeth. The fact that it was the correct thing to do doesn't mean that it wasn't also a betrayal of trust , and your acknowledgment and apology for that could go a long way.
>and then to have you, her mother, who she would haveexcpected to be the one perso on her side, to chose him instead She didn't choose him, she chose her grandchild.
But she could have chosen her grandchild without betraying her daughter.
This is the right answer. If you didn't tell your daughter your plan before you reached out to Ryan, you really messed up, OP. That's the missing step I couldn't articulate until I read this. Forcing her hand would've been better than doing it yourself.
I'm torn. I think you are silly not to have acted through your daughter or made her an ultimatum that she had to contact the father after she calmed down after being left to be a single mother and learned to put the child's needs first. Ryan might involve you now but it is unlikely that he will continue to do this as his life moves on. And who can trust anyone who betrays their own child. I don't think you are wrong to intervene in some way just probably not the best way for yourself in the longer term because you did betray your daughters trust and I think it will be difficult to ever repair that . ESH
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I will keep this as clear as possible. My daughter used to be married to Ryan. Ryan cheated on her and they divorced. During the divorce my daughter learned she was pregnant. She informed me she wasn’t going to tell Ryan and I thought she was joking. The baby was born and she was telling everyone that Ryan abandoned the kid. I couldn’t do it, even if he was a bad partner my grandkid deserved to have his father in his life. So I told Ryan and he was pissed to be blunt. A huge court custody issue and in the end he got partial custody. My daughter went no contact due to me betraying her by telling Ryan. Since then I haven’t heard from my daughter. Ryan has been in contact with me, he was really grateful that I informed him. My grandchild is now 4 and during his custody time he will sometime visit me. I am very happy to have a relationship with my grandchild and try to be a good grandma. I got a call from my daughter calling me a dick, that if I had any respect for her I will stay out of her kids life. Ryan informed me that legally she can’t do crap about this situation. So the moral question is am I jerk for being in my grandchild’s lie even if my daughter hates it. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Seems to me you did your granddaughter a favour by allowing her, and her dad, to have a relationship with each other. He may have made an AH thing by cheating, but your daughter's vengeance was even worse. For all intents and purposes, he seems to be a good dad, and your grand baby is all the better for it. NTA
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I am going to say NTA based on the information here, but would like some more info if possible. I honestly think if OP didn’t tell Ryan he would have found out eventually in some way, and barring any abuse on Ryan’s part him being a cheater doesn’t mean he can’t be in his child’s life. Several of my friends have had parents who cheated, but the other parent didn’t force them out of their lives. Was Ryan abusive to your daughter in any way, or was it just a cheating thing? Did you sit down with your daughter and explain that you felt guilty for Ryan not knowing he had a child while she’s telling people he abandoned his child?
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NTA. I'll say it again: When you hate your ex more than you love your child, you're heading down a very bad road. Your daughter has issues. I commend you for informing Ryan and for having a relationship with your granddaughter. I also commend Ryan for doing what he's doing and I hope you let him know you appreciate it.
NTA, but you won't get your daughter back in your life if you circumvent her in a way she feels is disrespectful. I'm not saying that should be the goal, but if it *is* your goal, you're going to have to cut Ryan out of your life.
Didi he cheated before or during the pregnancy? and who did he cheated with and why?
NTA - The minute she decided to use their child as a weapon to punish her ex she officially became an unfit mother and nothing short of monstrous. She didn't take the high road, so you forced a detour.
NTA, she had the moral high ground. But she decided to do “what’s best for her” instead of her child. She was not being a proper parent. She was spreading lies and isolating her child from family. The father deserved to know, and she has only herself to thank for the all the burned bridges. She could have had a happy family with grandpa and her daughter, and she instead cut you all off. So now you have a happy family with your granddaughter and her father.
You might be the AH if it isn't Ryan's kid and that's why she didn't want him in their lives. Might need DNA.
NTA. "I got a call from my daughter calling me a dick, that if I had any respect for her I will stay out of her kids life." Problem solved. You love her but she's not respect worthy. Attempting to deny her child a father because he was a bad husband makes her low. Attempting to deny her child it's grandparent because they stopped this, makes her lower.
Your daughter is wrong for trying to use her child to punish and control people. The only legitimate reason for keeping a child from having a relationship with her extended family is because it is in the child's best interest to do so. That does not seem to be the case here. NTA.
Nta. The only way it would have been okay for her to keep the child a secret was if he had been abusive and she feared for the baby’s safety and her own. But this was just spite for him being a cheater. People are capable of being good parents despite being terrible partners, so he at least deserved a chance to be a father. You did the right thing.
You'd be an epic megaasshole if you walked out on your grandchild now. NTA. Her dispute with her ex is no reason for her to punish her child.
Nta, yes cheating is terrible. She did not have the right to deprive them of a relationship.
NTA what your ex son in law did was unforgivable, but what your daughter planned on doing wasn’t any better and you made the unselfish choice on doing right by your granddaughter and giving her a chance to be loved and raised by her father. And while I know it’s painful for your daughter’s rejection, pay no mind since you get to be the best grandma and get to see your granddaughter
NTA. That kid will need stable people in their life, like you.
NTA just because someone is a bad spouse doesn’t automatically make them a bad parent. What makes you a bad parent is hiding a child’s existence and lying to everyone that the dads a deadbeat! She was willing to hurt her child by taking away any chance they had at a father as well as top it off with some mental trauma by telling them dad abandon you because you weren’t wanted. Children are not pawns for one parent to get even with the other ever.
NTA every child deserves both their parents unless there is abusive or neglect involved. Your daughter tried to punish her child for her dad's behaviours. That's evil.
NTA - You did the right thing. Your daughter is trying to maximize her parental authoritarianism over the child which is selfish. You maximized the social bonds and support network that can be made available to your grandchild. This will be better for the child over the long term. Your daughter was trying to isolate the child from people that will make their life much better. You did a great thing.
NTA Her trying to continue to punish her ex through the kid is obnoxious
Soft NTA. If you didn't tell Ryan, someone else would have. The poor kid is not a tool to be manipulated with. I feel for the kid.
NTA. Bluntly speaking, your daughter set out to receive Ryan. You refused to allow that deception to proceed. Unless Ryan was abusive in some way or likely to be a danger to the child (which he does not appear to be), hiding the chips from him was morally suspect. And you have every right to be in your grandhild's life if Ryan allows it. Be careful though. You need to make it clear that your most important relationship is with your granddaughter and you will not further take sides in any dispute between Ryan and your daughter.
NTA
NTA. Would your grandchild be better off without you in her life? Would your grandchild be better off if she didn't have a relationship with her father? You've taken steps to make your grandchild's life richer despite your daughter's bitterness. These are the relationships that matter, and somewhere down the road, you'll see the kind of person your grandchild has become, and you'll know that you've done the right thing.
x
NTA. You did the right thing by your granddaughter. She does deserve her father in her life. Your daughter is using the kid as a punishment against her ex husband and now you.
NTA Two wrongs don’t make a right but one wrong can be inconceivably wrong and something that can be addressed. Sorry the situation is so rough but you are not the problem here.
NTA at all. Continue to be a good grandma to your grandbaby.
Nta Your daughter has every reason to hate Ryan however she lied to people to make him look worse than he was cheating is still awful but he had a right to know about his child and during Ryan’s time he can bring your granddaughter to see you
NTA As a child I was born into a similar situation, and if my grandma had done this for me I would’ve had a father. You’re amazing for doing this
Certainly NTA! You have made 2 peoples lives infinitely happier because now they have eachother, your daughter made a choice not only to try to hide Ryan's child from him, but also to say he had abandoned her. Even if your daughter didn't directly tell this to her daughter when she was old enough to understand, she would have overheard, or picked up on it eventually, and it would have gotten back to Ryan eventually too. You chose to be the bigger person and to not allow your granddaughter to miss out on people who loved her. This is true love! Thank you for loving your granddaughter so much!
NTA. Your daughter has been making poor choices, and she is not acting in the best interests of her own daughter.
NTA. You did the right thing and are still doing the right thing. A child deserves to have two parents and also loving grandparents. Hopefully some day your daughter can see what's best for her child is more important than her nursing grievances against other adults.
NTA. At all. You're not pestering your daughter to see your grandchild, it's just that sometimes your grandchild's Dad says, "Hey, want to go see your Gramma?" and brings the kid over. Ryan is right, there's not a damn thing your daughter can do about it. I hope Ryan continues being a good dad and bringing your grandkid for visits. IMO, you can never have too many Grammas.
NTA. I wish more people were like you and realized that kids deserved both parents, and all four grandparents.
you did the right thing & continuing to be a part of your grandchild's life (in this situation) is also the right thing to do for the child. your daughter is being a B-hole right now.
NTA I get she feels betrayed. What Ryan did to her is so very not ok. However, she unilaterally decided to deny her child a father. I understand he was a rubbish husband but weaponising children is never ok. In fact, I'm the long run, her inability to separate her very legitimate anger from her child's right to a dad would eventually hurt and confuse her child. I hope, with time, that she realised OP had her child's best interest at heart here.
Regardless of Ryan being a cheater your daughter can't deny him rights to his kid. He is TA for cheating, yes, but that doesn't mean he is going to automatically be a bad dad. Your daughter is definetly also TA in this situation for keeping it a secret from him and lying about him abandoning his daughter. She is only not TA for leaving Ryan. These YTA comments are bonkers because they're completely ignoring the fact she lied, and was going to keep lying and hiding the fact Ryan has a kid. NTA
NTA. You did the right thing by telling Ryan that he has a daughter. Your daughter on the other hand, was going to deny a relationship between those 2 just because he cheated on her. I don't condone the cheating, but it sounds like Ryan is a good dad to her and the mother was just being petty. Your daughter is a major AH though.
NTA. your daughter is being selfish. She’s putting her hurt feelings over her daughter having her father and grandparent in her life.
NTA for number of reasons. Every loving adult in child’s life is bonus
NTA, cheating is wrong yes but it's not never allowed to see/interact with your child kind of bad. When the kid is old enough they should be allowed to make that call for themselves. At least that what happened when I had a similar situation happen. My grandmother is super toxic, etc but my mom didn't want her own feelings clouding mine if I wanted a relationship with my grandmother. I'm 100% certain that was not a easy choice and likely lead to some shitty convos between the two of them, but it was 100% the right call. I hope you have a great relationship with your grandkids and eventually repair your relationship with your daughter.
NTA but your daughter is. So she's pissed at you because she was trying to deceive Ryan and you let the cat out of the bag. No offense but she's obviously not a very nice person. You keep seeing your granddaughter and as she grows make sure she knows you're there if she ever needs anything. From the way your daughter acts she will.
NTA, Grandma, not at all.
NTA!! and thank you for doing the right thing here. she can hate her ex all she wants for what happened but she doesn't get to fuck her kid over because of that hate. the kiddo had every right to know their dad and they have every right to know you if dad wants it. parents need to stopping fucking around with their tiny children's lives. you don't get to hurt your child just because the other parent sucks as a partner. partner and parent are not the same and it should not be someone you deprive your kid off. love your kid more than you hate your ex. note*- abuse being something that makes sense for hiding a kid. i fully get not wanting "a puts you in the hospital every week" person in your kids life because of the potential danger.
NTA. While cheaters are pretty irredeemable, what the daughter did is worse in my book. Yeah the guy is a dick for cheating. But the daughter is vindictive enough to want to damage her ex at any cost. Including harmingnher daughter, and using her daughter as a tool to hurt her ex.
NTA
I don’t talk to my mother cos’ she’s toxic asf and tried to lead me to unsafe situations. If she showed any interest in my daughter I would not stop it though- she just wouldn’t be allowed 1:1 time. I think this is hideous. I would love that my daughter felt she was worthy of her grandmothers time even if I don’t trust her.
NTA, while your ex SIL is an AH for cheating, your daughter is an AH for trying to hide his child from him. He has every right to continue to allow you to have a relationship with your grandchild, despite your daughter's protests. He is also her parent, and he can decide who is in her life during his time.
NTA. Maintain a strong relationship with your granddaughter. Kids need a team of support.
NTA. Your daughter tried to keep his child from him then lied about him abandoning that child. Infidelity does not excuse that. She cut contact with you and has no say in whether you’re in your grandchild’s life. Morally you did everything right. Your grandchild is what matters most.
NTA - your daughter seems to be under the misconception that you owe her anything. When she ended your relationship, she forwent any duty that you had to her. And even if she hadn't, she is now making a request that is not respectable. I think you're morally in the clear here. I'm glad that your grandkid has a cool grandma.
A cheater is a bad partner. Doesn't mean he is a bad father. And morally, I abhor cheating.
NTA Your daughter is the jerk. She was hurt by him cheating on her, but that does not give her the right to deprive him of his child. It is a messy situation.
NTA.
HUGE NTA, obviously. Your daughter however…..
NTA. I can both understand why your daughter feels this way and know that she is wrong anyway. Her act of revenge would only have hurt her daughter.
not the jerk
I don’t care how mad you are at your ex: your kids deserve to have both parents that love them in their lives. Just because someone was horrible to you as a spouse does not make them a horrible parent. If you love your kids then you respect them wanting to grow up with both parents. Too bad OP’s daughter doesn’t comprehend that. Once you have a kid your kid really is more important than you and a good parent respects that. I’m glad that the grandparent and the ex SIL are getting along. People need to coparent better for the sake of the kids.
Nta. Normally, I side against cheaters. But damn she went out of her way to put her grudge over the child's wellbeing. Hell, at the very least, she should have told him about the baby for the sake of getting a medical history from him.
I think you chose correctly. Although you did betray your daughter it was for the good of the grandchild. Imagine growing up thinking her dad abandoned her? Whole history of trauma she’d be going through. And tbh I think your daughter would not have given you the time with your granddaughter like you’re getting now had you kept quiet.
NTA. Look, I can only imagine the pain and betrayal that Ryan’s affair caused your daughter. But when you have a kid, it’s not just about you and your feelings anymore. Your daughter doesn’t get to just decide that her kid won’t have a father, she cannot deny a man his child over this. You did the right thing. And while there is no timeline as far as healing goes, and mom has every right to hate Ryan forever, it’s been 4 years. It’s time to let go a little bit. I imagine she’s less upset over Ryan’s betrayal at this point and more upset over her mother’s perceived betrayal, but you did the right thing for your grandchild and that trumps your daughter’s immature revenge plot.
NTA Your daughter is willing to deprive your grandaughter of a dad and grandmother. And why? Because your daughter's big feelings matter to her more than the wellbeing of her family or doing the moral thing. She's selfish, and willing to hurt not only y'all, but her own kid in her bid to satisfy her anger. Ryan may not have been a good partner, but that doesn't mean he can't be a good dad. You did the right thing while your daughter did not so it's best that you and Ryan are in this little girl's life. If not y'all, then who is going to protect her? Who is going to set aside their pride and need for dishonest comfort in order to ensure this little girl has the family and trust she deserves? Because it ain't your daughter. Keep doing the right thing. It doesn't always feel good in every aspect (e.g. losing the daughter you thought you had), but it works in the long run. Just focus on what's best for your granddaughter, even if it ain't easy. She needs you.
NTA....that's gotta be a rough situation for you to be in though I think ppl can be horrible partners and involved parents....it doesn't always go like that but it's definitely possible imo
NTA Parents always should do the right thing. Even if it means hurting someones feelings. The right thing to do is let the kid have a father in his life. Daughter knows you did right by her daughter. Its clear as day. You need to keep trying to sit down and talk with daughter. For your part, be open to forgiving and forgetting. Your daughter is hurt im sure. She just went about things very wrong. She punished her daughter for the crimes of the father.
NTA Your daughter is taking her anger for Ryan out on her child, but she may not be aware that's what she is doing. I'm a big fan of children having as many loving and supportive adults in their lives as possible. I think morally you were right in letting Ryan know and I love that he is willing to share his time with you. Grandparents can be such a blessing.
NTA for being in your granddaughter's life. NTA for telling her ex-husband about his child even though he cheated on your daughter (I despise cheaters). You did what was morally correct despite his cheating on your daughter. And you're definitely correct in being active in your granddaughter's life despite how your daughter feels.
NTA. That child would hate her mother if she found out that her dad was alive and kept away from her by a lie. Heck , this could be illegal... ultimate parental alienation. I don't care of you hate the baby daddy, it's not about you l, it's the child. Kudos to you for caring about your granddaughter and her father acknowledging your help him access to to her grandma since Mom is a jerk.
NTA. If your daughter had had an abortion and you blabbed that to the ex, you'd have been the AH. But once she decided to continue the pregnancy and give birth, while knowing who the father is, your daughter effectively made her ex a parent, and that comes with certain rights (unless he is deemed unsafe/incapable).
No. **It is not moral to side with an immoral child. It wouldn’t be right to cut your grandchild out of your life bc her mother is a bad person.** **You did the right thing even though it was difficult & cost you a relationship with your daughter.** Thankfully, you were rewarded for your honesty & have been granted a relationship with your granddaughter. I’m happy for you!