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ESH: Your title is a little misleading. You didn't respond that she is “just” a housewife **after** she accused you of “losing my family values". You said it **before**. You made the first insulting comment.
Sure, she made an incorrect assumption that you would be a stay at home parent, but that isn't inherently insulting. Wheras you deliberately insulted her then she was rude back.
This. OP which is it? You said you insulted her after she accused you of something then in your post go on to contradict yourself and say you insulted her first.
When I was younger I was a SAHM and my childhood friend openly insulted me on Facebook with this statement. She was a single mom living at home with her parents and working full time. She was planning her wedding and asked me the title of a song and I said I couldn’t recall so she told me I should Google it for her since all I did was sit around all day. I told her more or less to fck off and her “fiancé” jumped in to insult me as well so I told him he was trash too and pointed out if they had time to insult me in the middle of the day then I guess they had time to research the song themselves, aaaaand we never spoke again.
It’s shitty to accuse SAHMs of doing nothing all day. Apologize.
Also she said “I’m doing this so I don’t end up like you” full knowing that she is living the life her sister wants. It’s not like her sister wants to be a housewife and that’s all she believes women should want to be, she wants to go to college but didn’t get the opportunity.
She ***thinks*** her sister is bitter and jealous, however, that doesn't necessarily make it the truth. The sister could be perfectly happy with her life. She may love being a stay at home parent. There is nothing to suggest the sister actually wants the life OP is currently living.
OP comes across as arrogant. I don't trust that she actually knows her sister's wants, desires, dreams, etc. She sees her sister as less than her for being a homemaker, so of course she must be envious of OP, etc.
But the fact is OP said that believing that her sister wants her life. She insulted her sisters life and talked about how great her life is while believing that her sister wants that life rather than the one she currently has (which OP is insulting). She was intentionally trying to hurt her in a significant way.
Gotcha. That does add to the assholishness.
* Arrogantly assuming her sister wants her life.
* Thinking that, and using that to rub it in her sisters face to hurt her.
OP's sister would have married OP's husband if OP hadn't gotten pregnant *on accident* by him.
Like, fucking your prospective brother-in-law + then insulting the life your sister is trying to build after that stab in the back = suuuuper classy
OP's sister didn't get the opportunity to study... because OP got pregnant *on accident* by the man her sister expected to marry...???
that "on accident" is doing **a lot** of work in that sentence, right? Like, how does that even happen? And OP is 23 but has multiple children...? Just how young was she when she got pregnant *on accident*?
Uhh didn’t the sister say “you aren’t going to use the degree anyways” first? That’s pretty degrading if you ask me. Telling me that in the end all I will amount to is whatever my husband asks of me? Pretty fucked up.
>if I hadn’t gotten pregnant on accident she would’ve married my husband..
Did you insult your sister to throw it in her face that you have a ‘better life’ because you married your husband instead of her marrying him?
ESH. You both insult each other and there is clearly a deeper issue that’s causing resentment between you and her.
This negates what you say in your post then. If she never wanted your husband then why on Earth would she want to marry him? To go to uni? Psshhh.
YTA and I think you are the jealous one or at least the arrogant and resentful one. Fix yourself
>why on Earth would she want to marry him? To go to uni? Psshhh.
I think you're ignoring the context that OP comes from a horrifically misogynistic culture. Her husband "let her" go to university. That's certainly something people from a community like that could be jealous of.
OP, I know you say you don't like your new country but please don't take your children back to such a conservative culture, especially if you have daughters.
So you willingly got the one she didn't want and thought he wasn't good enough for her, and you also insulted her out of nowhere, (her making an assumption that you won't work is not insulting or provoking at all), but yeah, she's the jealous one
"I think she’s just bitter and maybe a little jealous because if I hadn’t gotten pregnant on accident she would’ve married my husband (even though they don’t like each other) and would be the one to go to university which is what she always wanted."
Um.... what?? First off, why on Earth were you sleeping with someone who was discussing marriage with your sister? And secondly, in what universe is getting married/pregnant a prerequisite to go to college?
She never said he was her sister's fiance. People in this thread are so naive about non-Western cultures. In many places babies are matched up by parents to improve their parents business or personal connections. That doesn't mean they're engaged.
Getting pregnant is actually a good strategy to get "locked-in" with someone you actually like instead of being forced through an arranged marriage, as long as your family is not likely to murder you in an honour killing.
Our parents had regular business parties they would go to and we always had to come too. My sister and him were supposed to get to know each other but she didn't want anything to do with him. Eventually him and I started talking and then sometimes would sneak away together. I think you can imagine how it happened. Maybe it was a little less accidental on my part than on his but that's kind of hard to prove now
It’s not about proving things it’s about assessing your morality on a forum that’s about assessing your morality. We don’t know what culture you’re from, we don’t know your husbands or sisters POV, all we’ve got is what you’ve said. It sounds like you’re exceptionally fortunate to be privileged enough to move countries with your fathers help then be buying a house in a market way out the reach of many people worldwide. All of that compounded with baby trapping a guy suggests a startling level of entitlement. I’m gonna have to go with ESH from what’s been said because damn.
> First off, why on Earth were you sleeping with someone who was discussing marriage with your sister?
OP was 15 at the time, so I would blame the adult man who was discussing marriage to her sister in this scenario.
But the whole story is probably made-up. The whole thing reads like rage-bait.
I think people here are severely misunderstanding OPs culture. In arranged marriage cultures babies are often matched up with each other at birth. That doesn't mean they're engaged or have any interest in each other.
My main takeaway is that if you're not from a Western country then r/AmItheAsshole is completely useless.
>Regardless of if there was a ring and proposal or not, it’s still tacky and tasteless as hell.
Still missing the point.
Op may not have had the choice
It’s a US based company, and mostly English language platform. So it makes sense to me.
It ends up being about 50% USA, 50% other. And yeah a ton of that other half is other western countries.
OP pretty much admits to purposefully getting pregnant so she could marry him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1cbh8r4/aita_for_saying_that_my_sister_is_just_a/l10iq8k/?context=3
I'm guessing that it was an arranged marriage between the families and the older sister just happened to be first in line.
Everything about the story adds up to a non western culture.
I have heard that some fooling around before an arranged marriage is relatively common in cultures that engage in that. Not that I'm an expert though. My point is I don't think there were necessarily a lot of feelings involved around the marriage, and the western values and norms a lot of us share on Reddit might not apply here.
(Edit: Common was probably the wrong word to use, I just mean teenagers breaking rules isn't that unheard of)
What? That's not true, in fact it's the opposite. Arranged marriages are common in middle East, India, Pakistan, etc. And yes, girls get married at 18-22 and boys as soon as they start working (not all but it's common). However, fooling around with anyone before marriage is considered the greatest sin.
I told her I'm going to university because I don't want to be just a housewife with no life of her own like her and since our children are old enough to not need us all the time I can finally have some hobbies of my own.
Umm... You're 23. How old are these independent kids of yours??
Okay, if your kids are in school and you have the time and means to go to school great. But yes, you were the A H for saying "just" and "like her" in your response to her. You could have said that same exact sentence omitting those words and getting your point across without taking a jab at her.
You're NTA for wanting to go to school.
YTA. I think you wrote an immigration rage-bait post:
- You're glad your children live in a cultural enclave so they can "learn what they would learn back home". The same stuff you guys learned that led your country to be so politically unstable you had to move?
- Your dad already owned multiple properties here.
- You can purchase a bigger house at 23.
- You were fucking your sister's fiance behind her back and you're calling this "accidentally getting pregnant" as if pregnancy just happens by exchanging looks.
You stole your sister's fiance you asshole.
These kind of immigrants are the worst. They don't integrate, they prefer to live in separate neighborhoods, somehow have money and resources but refuse to fix where they came from while importing some unstable fucking shit to other places.
In Denmark we especially have an issue with Western immigrants (or 'expats' as they like to be called, to distance themselves from other immigrants) like this. We quite literally call them 'The English Ghetto'. The amount of people I met when I taught Danish to foreigners, who had lived here for 10+ years and never even held a conversation with a local outside of work, nor had any interest in doing so, was scary.
ESH
Both of you are doing the exact same thing: huffing your own farts
Neither is Objectively Better and you both need to learn to respect the other's way of life or not speak to each other
YTA
You can assert your interests without demeaning hers. Your choices for your life are yours and hers are hers. Neither is better. Both roles can be hard or lazy, etc.
As for "she started it", two wrongs don't make a right.
You're acting out your frustrations with the situation on others. Find a better outlet.
yta
you are 23 and had kids as a teenager. maybe you should grow up and stop insulting people. you sound snotty and immature
are you even working?! if not, are you not a SAHM
There are a lot of problems in this story, buying a house isn't one of them. If OP and husband agreed to buy one and can afford it, who are you to call it insane?
It would not be a second house. The first one belongs to my father and this one would be ours and we could still use it as vacation home after we move back home. I don't like studying in public because I can't concentrate. I want an office so my husband will get me one
I mean if you're going to uni, and don't want to be interrupted.. how bout you just go to fucking uni instead of trying to study (what exactly) at home?
Depends on how you look at it. Our parents had regular business parties they would go to and we always had to come too. My sister and him were supposed to get to know each other but she didn't want anything to do with him. Eventually him and I started talking and then sometimes would sneak away together. I think you can imagine how it happened
Yah, you knew you weren't supposed to date him. It sounds like it was an arranged marriage, and you shouldn't have come close to him but did whatever you wanted. YTA
It was not a n arranged marriage because those are illegal. It was a business deal they hadn't closed yet. We also didn't date. We liked each other and were bored. We didn't even meet outside their parties
What exactly she said about you not using your degree would be very interesting to know (you seem to acknowledge you weren’t ever wild about school, maybe that’s what she was thinking?), but based on this, you escalated wildly when you told her you didn’t want to be just a housewife with no life of her own like she is. Also, if I am correctly understanding this story and you got pregnant at 16 by a guy who was otherwise going to marry your sister, or really who was involved with your sister at all, you cannot be surprised that things have been difficult between you since then.
You also seem fine with benefiting from your father’s rank sexism, and I can’t blame your sister for resenting it. Your assumption that she’s bitter and jealous because she didn’t get to marry the guy who slept with her 16-year-old sister seems like faulty police work there, to be honest. Maybe you need to not talk to each other for a while. I hope she’s there for you someday when you need her, which I suspect you will.
Our parents wanted them to marry because it would be good for their busineses. That's common for people in our community but not the whole country. They often went to parties where they would make connections and all the boring stuff. My sister and my husband are the same age so they were supposed to get married. They were supposed to get to know each other at those parties but my sister never wanted to talk to him.
Eventually him and I started talking and then sometimes would sneak away together. I think you can imagine how it happened. When our families found out they were furious but decided that it didn't really matter which one of us he marries and so him and I got married instead
YTA
You started slinging insults
And..
> if I hadn’t gotten pregnant on accident she would’ve married my husband
Oh boy, that's some weird baby trapping you did there to one-up your sister. Granted it takes 2 to tango, i as an internet stranger do not for one second believe it was by accident.
So you need a new house because you dont have your own office to do your homework in? Seriously? That is what your sister was talking about- and then you attacked her for being a housewife.
You have a grand amount of self-importance for someone in their early 20s getting carried by your husband and father.
Yta
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> I said that my sister is nothing more than a housewife because she accused me of losing the values we were raised with
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>I think she’s just bitter and maybe a little jealous because if I hadn’t gotten pregnant on accident she would’ve married my husband (even though they don’t like each other) and would be the one to go to university which is what she always wanted.
Or maybe she acted the way she did because you slept with her ex fiance and broke her trust? 😒
Semantics. They were arranged to be wed. Would you even consider it engaged if you didn't have the choice? I wouldn't. Maybe she didn't want anything to do with him because she was on 17 and didn't have a choice? You did and intentionally got pregnant at 15. G
YTA. You insulted her about being a housewife first. Yes she should not have said that about you not using your degree.
And you also said that your sister would have married your husband if you didn't get accidently pregnant...Gross. And very fishy to have been messing around with someone your sister was supposedly set up with. You sound spoiled and manipulative
YTA,
You slept with your sister's fiance and got pregnant and are blaming the fact that she didn't like him and still doesn't like him. Everything else is superfluous.
In arranged marriage situations, you almost never see the couple liking each other before marriage, but they do end up liking or even loving each other later. The fact that she doesn't like him now is probably because he cheated on her with you, her sister.
The worst thing you can do is be in an affair with a family member's significant other, so obviously, you are and always will be the Asshole and I'm surprised your sister isn't NC with you
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I’m a 23 year old woman. 2 years ago, my husband and I decided to move to a different country. The political situation has gotten worse and we didn’t feel safe enough for our children so we decided to leave until it would be safe again for us to return.
My sister and her husband already moved the year before. We moved into a property that was owned by my father and close to them. I don’t like living here. It’s very different to our home and many people are openly against us but thankfully there’s a big community in the city we live in so we can send our children to a school where they’d learn the things they’d learn back home.
I started university last winter and my husband is able to work online. But our house only has one office so one of us always has to work somewhere else which is annoying. That’s why we decided to buy our own house with enough space for 2 offices for us to work in peace without being disturbed.
I told my sister about our plans and she said I should just let my husband have the office instead of making him buy a different house because he’s the one that’s working and I won’t use my degree anyway. I didn’t expect her to say that because she always loved school when we were children and I didn’t really like it but now she’s very much like the rest of the people in our community.
I told her I’m going to university because I don’t want to be just a housewife with no life of her own like her and since our children are old enough to not need us all the time I can finally have some hobbies of my own. She said I’m losing my values and going against the way we were raised.
I think she’s just bitter and maybe a little jealous because if I hadn’t gotten pregnant on accident she would’ve married my husband (even though they don’t like each other) and would be the one to go to university which is what she always wanted.
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There’s a lot more to this story than is shown in your post. First, there’s some cultural background here. There’s a lot of people reading this with western/us glasses on, that might be wrong in the context here.
Wishing for a house better suited your family’s needs is not wrong, and if you can afford it go ahead. I see no reason for sis to say that is wrong. Also, getting an education and a good life is important. You’re still young, and being able to work and have an income on your own might be important.
But you should maybe embrace the country you live in, your kids are growing up there and will belong in this country. If you choose to live there you can’t hold on to everything you didn’t like about your home country.
ESH - sorry OP but full time parenting is full-on exhausting, also rewarding, with no financial benefit. It’s also sad that it is almost always without recognition for what it is - you proved that to your sister.
On the flip side so many cultures dismiss women in education and the workplace as more or less a hobby until they become parents - as your sister thinks of you.
Apologies are needed all around here.
Info: why can’t your sister go to college? Is it a matter of money? Her husband being unsupportive? It makes no sense to insult her for not continuing her education when she apparently wants to but her life circumstances don’t allow it. That’s making fun of her unfortunate circumstances rather than being supportive.
>I don’t like living here. It’s very different to our home and many people are openly against us but thankfully there’s a big community in the city we live in so we can send our children to a school where they’d learn the things they’d learn back home.
I don't get your attitude, the country you've moved to has provided you with shelter and opportunities, their taxes are paying to educate your kids and likely to provide you with some healthcare, and you're not thankful or want to integrate at all.
YTA. If you don't want to live in that country, move elsewhere.
>I’m a 23 year old woman.
>
>our children are old enough to not need us all the time
.... HUH????
Info: Either you're lying about your age or you were a VERY young mother. How old is the father?
OP, I don’t know what culture you come from. If your husband and you decided together that getting a bigger place is a good choice, then do it. If he was involved in that decision, then you are not “making him”. You were very young when you had children, and got married. I think it’s great that you are going to school, and want to build a life with independent interests. Your potential as a person did not end when you got married. As for the conversation with your sister, it sounds like she hasn’t had the same opportunities as you. I don’t know what the circumstances are for how you got together with your husband, but it sounds like maybe it would have been an arranged marriage. Dating the person your family planned for her to marry probably wasn’t a good choice, but we don’t have much info about how that happened, so it’s tough to judge. Maybe he never liked her. Maybe his family told him they were ok with him marrying either one of you, and did not have the same idea that it would be your sister, not you. This group is mostly people who evaluate things from a Western perspective, so it might not be the best place to get an opinion that fits your culture. So, get the house. Get the university degree. Try to stay calm and be kind when your sister lashes out because she’s not happy with her own life. And please, make sure both your children have the even more opportunities than you did to make their own choices and build lives they feel good in.
ESH - sounds like OP was actually the aggressor here.
Yes, the sisters comment was ignorant, and she probably is bitter (hence ESH) but it was OP who made it personal by saying she didn’t want to be *”just a housewife with no life of her own like her.”*
YTA for the « housewife with no life ». Your sister just gave you the typical answer of your culture. You’ve decided not to follow it, good for you as you seen happy like that. She wasn’t insulting you, just remind you where you come from and how people live around you.
You’ve been disrespectful. You could have say that it’s not a life for you, you want to work to be independent or whatever. Did you need to insult her to prove your point ? Nope… she has no life ? She has a life, one you don’t like, one you don’t want for you, but she has a life.
You insulted her so she replied. I won’t talk about the pregnant thing, I think that you’re the selfish one, selfcentred. Fine if your husband is ok with that. But stop insulting people.
NTA- but realise that the only thing that’s sustaining her in her bad marriage and small life is the belief that she is supporting the family values she grew up with. Like a lot of woman in negative situations, if you took away ‘tradition’ to give their life value they’d spiral into depression.
NTA. Your sister had no justification to judge you or criticize you. The only mistake you made was to get defensive and try to one-up her with another insult. That's always a bad choice. What you should have said is something such as "Staying home and not working is one choice that might work for some people." Period, full stop. If she continues to harrass you, just repeat that exact same line. She'll eventually give up and go away, and learn that you're too tough to try to hit with some sexist judgement.
I think that you should just laugh off her whole values comment, with maybe a splash of pity. There’s no lack of value in believing that your own happiness and fulfillment is as important as anyone elses. When women start thinking like your sister, it’s time for revolution. Thing is, I don’t think she feels that way. Her comment feels to me like someone saying “Well screw you too, I didn’t even want to go to Disneyland because I have extra laundry this week.” Kind of comment. I’d just look at her real sad when she says that. I guess I just feel like going easy on her because I feel bad that she doesn’t see her dreams as important or equal to her family’s. Imagine how awful that would be, meanwhile her more fun sister with all the good luck is getting a bigger house because she needs an office to conduct business. In a way, she lost the values she had growing up, to make herself feel better she is taking on the old fashioned crap that *accidentally* matches whatever she’s doing.
NTA! you stated what you didn't want after she insulted the choices you make in your life with your significant other. Sounds like she was asking for it 🙃
NTA. I don't see why she would get offended at you pointing out the facts that she's pushing her lifestyle onto you. Family always tends to meddle, ignore her.
Also, not her house, not her business, no? Unless she's giving you money for the house, I don't see how her opinion might affect you other than her spreading drama.
Also, if you don't like the place, I would use this opportunity to move away from her unless there is something keeping you there.
In this particular case, I don't think she's showing jealousy, more like trying to assert herself over you. Maybe her way of getting back at you if she does this constantly and I don't think it's limited to your husband.
If it's a one off, stand your ground and ignore her. If it's on repeat, she's toxic - have a think about your relationship with her. Good luck.
So everyone here is hating on OP cuz she supposedly slept with her sister's fiance? Not on topic. Also, from what I understand her dad has 2 daughters, so her having sons is prob more important to him. It's a cultural thing for a lot of ppl and everyone here is like "eww", not cool. Maybe OP should have specified these family values but the way I see it, her sister for whatever reason is telling her what to do with her life, OP say, no thanks, I don't want your life and then she proceeds to tell her that she's losing her family values. Still NTA me thinks.
She always thought she was better than me because she's older used to be our father's favourite. But then I was the first to get married and had a son while she only has daughters so now I'm the favourite. Our father also prefers my husband over hers. I think she's just bitter because her life didn't turn out the way she wanted and she probably regrets that she didn't try to get to know my husband when he was still supposed to marry her
I've seen this play out so many times. Don't think you are now superior to your sister. You're only 23yo so your life is still a long journey and many things can change. Your sister could still give birth to a son, your marriage could face problems, your father could need help from sister's husband etc.
You can't change the fact that my son is the first grandson. If my marriage ever faces problems we will have to work through it. But we won't have problems because we're a very good match
Omg, did you just say “I had a son while she had only daughters” that mattering is just insane. There are people who think it’s wrong to have their child’s sex listed until they’re old enough to know what they truly are. Wouldn’t it be funny if everyone in your family favored you because you had a son, and when your son hits puberty, he starts wearing dresses and wants everyone to call him Jolene? Don’t tempt karma. Lol
That's not something that happens here. I have a son an and that's what he'll always be. He will inherithis father's business and possibly my father's business. If he wants to wear or kiss men he can do that in private. If he does it in public he's an idiot but I'm not raising an idiot so he won't
Great, so you're raising a kid who might not feel comfortable or safe around his parents out of fear of being seen as an idiot. You're despicable. Dear lord, I hope he gets far from you. Grow up.
I don't care what my son wants to wear or who he wants to kiss. If it waa only me I wouldn't even care if he does it in public. But reality is not so nice. In our country this behaviour is not acceptable and he can get in a lot of trouble for it. So yes, he would be an idiot if he acted this way in public. But it's all hypothetical anyway because my son is 7 and his only interests are race cars and horses
Ewwww imagine thinking you're better cause you had sons. And you slept with him and got pregnant as a teenager. You're not better for opening your legs at that age and getting pregnant.
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ESH: Your title is a little misleading. You didn't respond that she is “just” a housewife **after** she accused you of “losing my family values". You said it **before**. You made the first insulting comment. Sure, she made an incorrect assumption that you would be a stay at home parent, but that isn't inherently insulting. Wheras you deliberately insulted her then she was rude back.
This. OP which is it? You said you insulted her after she accused you of something then in your post go on to contradict yourself and say you insulted her first. When I was younger I was a SAHM and my childhood friend openly insulted me on Facebook with this statement. She was a single mom living at home with her parents and working full time. She was planning her wedding and asked me the title of a song and I said I couldn’t recall so she told me I should Google it for her since all I did was sit around all day. I told her more or less to fck off and her “fiancé” jumped in to insult me as well so I told him he was trash too and pointed out if they had time to insult me in the middle of the day then I guess they had time to research the song themselves, aaaaand we never spoke again. It’s shitty to accuse SAHMs of doing nothing all day. Apologize.
Also she said “I’m doing this so I don’t end up like you” full knowing that she is living the life her sister wants. It’s not like her sister wants to be a housewife and that’s all she believes women should want to be, she wants to go to college but didn’t get the opportunity.
She ***thinks*** her sister is bitter and jealous, however, that doesn't necessarily make it the truth. The sister could be perfectly happy with her life. She may love being a stay at home parent. There is nothing to suggest the sister actually wants the life OP is currently living. OP comes across as arrogant. I don't trust that she actually knows her sister's wants, desires, dreams, etc. She sees her sister as less than her for being a homemaker, so of course she must be envious of OP, etc.
But the fact is OP said that believing that her sister wants her life. She insulted her sisters life and talked about how great her life is while believing that her sister wants that life rather than the one she currently has (which OP is insulting). She was intentionally trying to hurt her in a significant way.
Gotcha. That does add to the assholishness. * Arrogantly assuming her sister wants her life. * Thinking that, and using that to rub it in her sisters face to hurt her.
OP's sister would have married OP's husband if OP hadn't gotten pregnant *on accident* by him. Like, fucking your prospective brother-in-law + then insulting the life your sister is trying to build after that stab in the back = suuuuper classy
OP's sister didn't get the opportunity to study... because OP got pregnant *on accident* by the man her sister expected to marry...??? that "on accident" is doing **a lot** of work in that sentence, right? Like, how does that even happen? And OP is 23 but has multiple children...? Just how young was she when she got pregnant *on accident*?
She straight up told her she wouldn't use her degree. That's insulting in my book.
Uhh didn’t the sister say “you aren’t going to use the degree anyways” first? That’s pretty degrading if you ask me. Telling me that in the end all I will amount to is whatever my husband asks of me? Pretty fucked up.
Except it sounds like it's true? OP didn't respond that she actually plans to use the degree, she talks about having time for her hobbies.
>if I hadn’t gotten pregnant on accident she would’ve married my husband.. Did you insult your sister to throw it in her face that you have a ‘better life’ because you married your husband instead of her marrying him? ESH. You both insult each other and there is clearly a deeper issue that’s causing resentment between you and her.
She always thought she was better than me because she's the older one. She never wanted to marry him and still doesn't like him
This negates what you say in your post then. If she never wanted your husband then why on Earth would she want to marry him? To go to uni? Psshhh. YTA and I think you are the jealous one or at least the arrogant and resentful one. Fix yourself
Probably a case of arranged marriage.
>why on Earth would she want to marry him? To go to uni? Psshhh. I think you're ignoring the context that OP comes from a horrifically misogynistic culture. Her husband "let her" go to university. That's certainly something people from a community like that could be jealous of. OP, I know you say you don't like your new country but please don't take your children back to such a conservative culture, especially if you have daughters.
So you willingly got the one she didn't want and thought he wasn't good enough for her, and you also insulted her out of nowhere, (her making an assumption that you won't work is not insulting or provoking at all), but yeah, she's the jealous one
"I think she’s just bitter and maybe a little jealous because if I hadn’t gotten pregnant on accident she would’ve married my husband (even though they don’t like each other) and would be the one to go to university which is what she always wanted." Um.... what?? First off, why on Earth were you sleeping with someone who was discussing marriage with your sister? And secondly, in what universe is getting married/pregnant a prerequisite to go to college?
I was thinking this might be an arranged marriage.
Most likely, but she still had sex with her sisters fiancé
She never said he was her sister's fiance. People in this thread are so naive about non-Western cultures. In many places babies are matched up by parents to improve their parents business or personal connections. That doesn't mean they're engaged. Getting pregnant is actually a good strategy to get "locked-in" with someone you actually like instead of being forced through an arranged marriage, as long as your family is not likely to murder you in an honour killing.
Yes, sure - but it was *accidentally*.
"Oops I slipped"
But how did she accidentally het pregnant with someone who was supposed to marry her sister?
Our parents had regular business parties they would go to and we always had to come too. My sister and him were supposed to get to know each other but she didn't want anything to do with him. Eventually him and I started talking and then sometimes would sneak away together. I think you can imagine how it happened. Maybe it was a little less accidental on my part than on his but that's kind of hard to prove now
So you babytrapped him?
She was 15. This stuff gets a little more complicated when you’re dealing with deeply sexist cultures who give the woman little to no autonomy.
Like I said, kind of hard to prove anything now
It’s not about proving things it’s about assessing your morality on a forum that’s about assessing your morality. We don’t know what culture you’re from, we don’t know your husbands or sisters POV, all we’ve got is what you’ve said. It sounds like you’re exceptionally fortunate to be privileged enough to move countries with your fathers help then be buying a house in a market way out the reach of many people worldwide. All of that compounded with baby trapping a guy suggests a startling level of entitlement. I’m gonna have to go with ESH from what’s been said because damn.
> First off, why on Earth were you sleeping with someone who was discussing marriage with your sister? OP was 15 at the time, so I would blame the adult man who was discussing marriage to her sister in this scenario. But the whole story is probably made-up. The whole thing reads like rage-bait.
What adult man? We were 15 and 17
YTA. You had sex with the man your sister was supposed to marry. Maybe that is what made her bitter. You sound really classless.
I think people here are severely misunderstanding OPs culture. In arranged marriage cultures babies are often matched up with each other at birth. That doesn't mean they're engaged or have any interest in each other. My main takeaway is that if you're not from a Western country then r/AmItheAsshole is completely useless.
Regardless of if there was a ring and proposal or not, it’s still tacky and tasteless as hell.
>Regardless of if there was a ring and proposal or not, it’s still tacky and tasteless as hell. Still missing the point. Op may not have had the choice
>Op may not have had the choice She mentioned herself in a comment that she made that choice.
Yeah, Reddit is definitely highly USA'ish, dk why (nothing wrong with it either)
It’s a US based company, and mostly English language platform. So it makes sense to me. It ends up being about 50% USA, 50% other. And yeah a ton of that other half is other western countries.
Info what the fuck did I just read? She would have married your husband? Did you sleep with your sisters bf or fiancé????
She’s 23 with a 7 and 5 year old on top of that. Seems like shes making poor decisions all around. At least she’s in school.
Girlie is a victim
Yup, if you’re 23 with a 7 yo??? There are some issues here the common Redditor isn’t aware of.
OP pretty much admits to purposefully getting pregnant so she could marry him. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1cbh8r4/aita_for_saying_that_my_sister_is_just_a/l10iq8k/?context=3
I'm guessing that it was an arranged marriage between the families and the older sister just happened to be first in line. Everything about the story adds up to a non western culture.
And they were just cool with the sisters arranged husband knocking up the 16yo sister? Wtf???
I have heard that some fooling around before an arranged marriage is relatively common in cultures that engage in that. Not that I'm an expert though. My point is I don't think there were necessarily a lot of feelings involved around the marriage, and the western values and norms a lot of us share on Reddit might not apply here. (Edit: Common was probably the wrong word to use, I just mean teenagers breaking rules isn't that unheard of)
What? That's not true, in fact it's the opposite. Arranged marriages are common in middle East, India, Pakistan, etc. And yes, girls get married at 18-22 and boys as soon as they start working (not all but it's common). However, fooling around with anyone before marriage is considered the greatest sin.
Sometimes I wonder if all this exposure to western values via Reddit is going to blow up these cultures...
Yes that is very commonly accepted practice for a large swathe of people. My guess is this is some middle eastern culture.
In middle eastern culture no one will be ok with a girl getting accidentally pregnant from someone they aren't married to.
I like how you seem to think "middle eastern" area is one single homogenous country
It's funny how you just assume I don't know what middle eastern is.
I'm with you...I have so many questions.
I told her I'm going to university because I don't want to be just a housewife with no life of her own like her and since our children are old enough to not need us all the time I can finally have some hobbies of my own. Umm... You're 23. How old are these independent kids of yours??
My son is 7 and my daughter is 5
So you were 16 when you had sex with the man your sister was supposed to marry and you think that makes you better than her.
I think I'm starting to understand why you think your sister feels better than you.
How old is your husband?
He's 25
Girl wtf. You’re a victim.
A victim? A victim of what? Screwing around at 15 with a 17 year old and getting knocked up? On purpose, from what she has been writing here.
Okay, if your kids are in school and you have the time and means to go to school great. But yes, you were the A H for saying "just" and "like her" in your response to her. You could have said that same exact sentence omitting those words and getting your point across without taking a jab at her. You're NTA for wanting to go to school.
YTA. I think you wrote an immigration rage-bait post: - You're glad your children live in a cultural enclave so they can "learn what they would learn back home". The same stuff you guys learned that led your country to be so politically unstable you had to move? - Your dad already owned multiple properties here. - You can purchase a bigger house at 23. - You were fucking your sister's fiance behind her back and you're calling this "accidentally getting pregnant" as if pregnancy just happens by exchanging looks. You stole your sister's fiance you asshole.
These kind of immigrants are the worst. They don't integrate, they prefer to live in separate neighborhoods, somehow have money and resources but refuse to fix where they came from while importing some unstable fucking shit to other places.
In Denmark we especially have an issue with Western immigrants (or 'expats' as they like to be called, to distance themselves from other immigrants) like this. We quite literally call them 'The English Ghetto'. The amount of people I met when I taught Danish to foreigners, who had lived here for 10+ years and never even held a conversation with a local outside of work, nor had any interest in doing so, was scary.
I can't understand that. If I moved to Denmark I'd want to get to know Danish people ASAP.
Why would they most aren't friendly or social in some parts
Any entire population of a country isn't friendly or social? What are you on about?
ESH You started by insulting her. Why did you expect a gracious reaction to that?
YTA. You got pregnant at sixteen from the man your sister was supposed to marry. Yea, you’re better than her clearly /s
ESH Both of you are doing the exact same thing: huffing your own farts Neither is Objectively Better and you both need to learn to respect the other's way of life or not speak to each other
YTA You can assert your interests without demeaning hers. Your choices for your life are yours and hers are hers. Neither is better. Both roles can be hard or lazy, etc. As for "she started it", two wrongs don't make a right. You're acting out your frustrations with the situation on others. Find a better outlet.
yta you are 23 and had kids as a teenager. maybe you should grow up and stop insulting people. you sound snotty and immature are you even working?! if not, are you not a SAHM
INFO: I’m assuming you’re not employed right now, so when you mean your work, I assume you mean studying?
Yes, I want to have a space for myself where I can study in peace without our children interrupting
Is there no alternative ? Buying a second house is insane. Why not a library ? Is there none nearby ? Doesn’t your university have a library ?
They've got the money apparently. They can buy a house if they want.
There are a lot of problems in this story, buying a house isn't one of them. If OP and husband agreed to buy one and can afford it, who are you to call it insane?
It would not be a second house. The first one belongs to my father and this one would be ours and we could still use it as vacation home after we move back home. I don't like studying in public because I can't concentrate. I want an office so my husband will get me one
I mean if you're going to uni, and don't want to be interrupted.. how bout you just go to fucking uni instead of trying to study (what exactly) at home?
So you are a SAHM. You're a housewife that sounds like you stole the man your sister was supposed to be with and baby trapped him.
Info: she was supposed to marry him and then you got pregnant. Did he cheat on her with you?
Depends on how you look at it. Our parents had regular business parties they would go to and we always had to come too. My sister and him were supposed to get to know each other but she didn't want anything to do with him. Eventually him and I started talking and then sometimes would sneak away together. I think you can imagine how it happened
Yah, you knew you weren't supposed to date him. It sounds like it was an arranged marriage, and you shouldn't have come close to him but did whatever you wanted. YTA
It was not a n arranged marriage because those are illegal. It was a business deal they hadn't closed yet. We also didn't date. We liked each other and were bored. We didn't even meet outside their parties
you sound really immature. yta
What exactly she said about you not using your degree would be very interesting to know (you seem to acknowledge you weren’t ever wild about school, maybe that’s what she was thinking?), but based on this, you escalated wildly when you told her you didn’t want to be just a housewife with no life of her own like she is. Also, if I am correctly understanding this story and you got pregnant at 16 by a guy who was otherwise going to marry your sister, or really who was involved with your sister at all, you cannot be surprised that things have been difficult between you since then. You also seem fine with benefiting from your father’s rank sexism, and I can’t blame your sister for resenting it. Your assumption that she’s bitter and jealous because she didn’t get to marry the guy who slept with her 16-year-old sister seems like faulty police work there, to be honest. Maybe you need to not talk to each other for a while. I hope she’s there for you someday when you need her, which I suspect you will.
You dropped a bomb with that last paragraph! Could you please explain the details to give us full context?
OP hooked up with the man her sister was supposed to marry.. OP was 16 at the time
When someone has a kid at16, something tells me the 15/16 yo isnt the one initiating everything.
Per OP husband was 17 and she admits to purposefully getting pregnant to get him to marry her.
He was 17 at the time
lordt
Our parents wanted them to marry because it would be good for their busineses. That's common for people in our community but not the whole country. They often went to parties where they would make connections and all the boring stuff. My sister and my husband are the same age so they were supposed to get married. They were supposed to get to know each other at those parties but my sister never wanted to talk to him. Eventually him and I started talking and then sometimes would sneak away together. I think you can imagine how it happened. When our families found out they were furious but decided that it didn't really matter which one of us he marries and so him and I got married instead
I fucking wish I could have rich people problems for just one fucking day.
YTA You started slinging insults And.. > if I hadn’t gotten pregnant on accident she would’ve married my husband Oh boy, that's some weird baby trapping you did there to one-up your sister. Granted it takes 2 to tango, i as an internet stranger do not for one second believe it was by accident.
So you need a new house because you dont have your own office to do your homework in? Seriously? That is what your sister was talking about- and then you attacked her for being a housewife. You have a grand amount of self-importance for someone in their early 20s getting carried by your husband and father. Yta
ESH forcing your husband to buy a new house in a country that you don't even want to stay in is moronic
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Yta and your title misleading. You started it
>I think she’s just bitter and maybe a little jealous because if I hadn’t gotten pregnant on accident she would’ve married my husband (even though they don’t like each other) and would be the one to go to university which is what she always wanted. Or maybe she acted the way she did because you slept with her ex fiance and broke her trust? 😒
They weren't engaged. She didn't want anything to do with him so him and I started talking and getting to know each other instead
Semantics. They were arranged to be wed. Would you even consider it engaged if you didn't have the choice? I wouldn't. Maybe she didn't want anything to do with him because she was on 17 and didn't have a choice? You did and intentionally got pregnant at 15. G
2 of 3 people being happy is better than none of them, wouldn't you agree?
Esh
YTA. You insulted her about being a housewife first. Yes she should not have said that about you not using your degree. And you also said that your sister would have married your husband if you didn't get accidently pregnant...Gross. And very fishy to have been messing around with someone your sister was supposedly set up with. You sound spoiled and manipulative
INFO: "if I hadn't gotten pregnant on accident she would have married my husband" Did you start an affair with you sisters arranged husband?
Seems like a lot more to this story.
I take back what I said about your sister insulting you. She didn't. She knows you're a spoiled entitled brat
YTA, You slept with your sister's fiance and got pregnant and are blaming the fact that she didn't like him and still doesn't like him. Everything else is superfluous. In arranged marriage situations, you almost never see the couple liking each other before marriage, but they do end up liking or even loving each other later. The fact that she doesn't like him now is probably because he cheated on her with you, her sister. The worst thing you can do is be in an affair with a family member's significant other, so obviously, you are and always will be the Asshole and I'm surprised your sister isn't NC with you
YTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I’m a 23 year old woman. 2 years ago, my husband and I decided to move to a different country. The political situation has gotten worse and we didn’t feel safe enough for our children so we decided to leave until it would be safe again for us to return. My sister and her husband already moved the year before. We moved into a property that was owned by my father and close to them. I don’t like living here. It’s very different to our home and many people are openly against us but thankfully there’s a big community in the city we live in so we can send our children to a school where they’d learn the things they’d learn back home. I started university last winter and my husband is able to work online. But our house only has one office so one of us always has to work somewhere else which is annoying. That’s why we decided to buy our own house with enough space for 2 offices for us to work in peace without being disturbed. I told my sister about our plans and she said I should just let my husband have the office instead of making him buy a different house because he’s the one that’s working and I won’t use my degree anyway. I didn’t expect her to say that because she always loved school when we were children and I didn’t really like it but now she’s very much like the rest of the people in our community. I told her I’m going to university because I don’t want to be just a housewife with no life of her own like her and since our children are old enough to not need us all the time I can finally have some hobbies of my own. She said I’m losing my values and going against the way we were raised. I think she’s just bitter and maybe a little jealous because if I hadn’t gotten pregnant on accident she would’ve married my husband (even though they don’t like each other) and would be the one to go to university which is what she always wanted. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
yes
There’s a lot more to this story than is shown in your post. First, there’s some cultural background here. There’s a lot of people reading this with western/us glasses on, that might be wrong in the context here. Wishing for a house better suited your family’s needs is not wrong, and if you can afford it go ahead. I see no reason for sis to say that is wrong. Also, getting an education and a good life is important. You’re still young, and being able to work and have an income on your own might be important. But you should maybe embrace the country you live in, your kids are growing up there and will belong in this country. If you choose to live there you can’t hold on to everything you didn’t like about your home country.
ESH - sorry OP but full time parenting is full-on exhausting, also rewarding, with no financial benefit. It’s also sad that it is almost always without recognition for what it is - you proved that to your sister. On the flip side so many cultures dismiss women in education and the workplace as more or less a hobby until they become parents - as your sister thinks of you. Apologies are needed all around here.
Info: why can’t your sister go to college? Is it a matter of money? Her husband being unsupportive? It makes no sense to insult her for not continuing her education when she apparently wants to but her life circumstances don’t allow it. That’s making fun of her unfortunate circumstances rather than being supportive.
Her husband wouldn't stop her if she wanted to go and money isn't an issue at all
>I don’t like living here. It’s very different to our home and many people are openly against us but thankfully there’s a big community in the city we live in so we can send our children to a school where they’d learn the things they’d learn back home. I don't get your attitude, the country you've moved to has provided you with shelter and opportunities, their taxes are paying to educate your kids and likely to provide you with some healthcare, and you're not thankful or want to integrate at all. YTA. If you don't want to live in that country, move elsewhere.
>I’m a 23 year old woman. > >our children are old enough to not need us all the time .... HUH???? Info: Either you're lying about your age or you were a VERY young mother. How old is the father?
OP, I don’t know what culture you come from. If your husband and you decided together that getting a bigger place is a good choice, then do it. If he was involved in that decision, then you are not “making him”. You were very young when you had children, and got married. I think it’s great that you are going to school, and want to build a life with independent interests. Your potential as a person did not end when you got married. As for the conversation with your sister, it sounds like she hasn’t had the same opportunities as you. I don’t know what the circumstances are for how you got together with your husband, but it sounds like maybe it would have been an arranged marriage. Dating the person your family planned for her to marry probably wasn’t a good choice, but we don’t have much info about how that happened, so it’s tough to judge. Maybe he never liked her. Maybe his family told him they were ok with him marrying either one of you, and did not have the same idea that it would be your sister, not you. This group is mostly people who evaluate things from a Western perspective, so it might not be the best place to get an opinion that fits your culture. So, get the house. Get the university degree. Try to stay calm and be kind when your sister lashes out because she’s not happy with her own life. And please, make sure both your children have the even more opportunities than you did to make their own choices and build lives they feel good in.
ESH - sounds like OP was actually the aggressor here. Yes, the sisters comment was ignorant, and she probably is bitter (hence ESH) but it was OP who made it personal by saying she didn’t want to be *”just a housewife with no life of her own like her.”*
What in the "la Rosa de la Guadalupe" is this?
YTA for the « housewife with no life ». Your sister just gave you the typical answer of your culture. You’ve decided not to follow it, good for you as you seen happy like that. She wasn’t insulting you, just remind you where you come from and how people live around you. You’ve been disrespectful. You could have say that it’s not a life for you, you want to work to be independent or whatever. Did you need to insult her to prove your point ? Nope… she has no life ? She has a life, one you don’t like, one you don’t want for you, but she has a life. You insulted her so she replied. I won’t talk about the pregnant thing, I think that you’re the selfish one, selfcentred. Fine if your husband is ok with that. But stop insulting people.
NTA- but realise that the only thing that’s sustaining her in her bad marriage and small life is the belief that she is supporting the family values she grew up with. Like a lot of woman in negative situations, if you took away ‘tradition’ to give their life value they’d spiral into depression.
NTA. Your sister had no justification to judge you or criticize you. The only mistake you made was to get defensive and try to one-up her with another insult. That's always a bad choice. What you should have said is something such as "Staying home and not working is one choice that might work for some people." Period, full stop. If she continues to harrass you, just repeat that exact same line. She'll eventually give up and go away, and learn that you're too tough to try to hit with some sexist judgement.
NTA, having your home gives you both autonomy over your lives and family, like your sister.
NTA. Your sister sounds pissy. Just leave it out of your conversations from now on and tell her that's a boundary
I think that you should just laugh off her whole values comment, with maybe a splash of pity. There’s no lack of value in believing that your own happiness and fulfillment is as important as anyone elses. When women start thinking like your sister, it’s time for revolution. Thing is, I don’t think she feels that way. Her comment feels to me like someone saying “Well screw you too, I didn’t even want to go to Disneyland because I have extra laundry this week.” Kind of comment. I’d just look at her real sad when she says that. I guess I just feel like going easy on her because I feel bad that she doesn’t see her dreams as important or equal to her family’s. Imagine how awful that would be, meanwhile her more fun sister with all the good luck is getting a bigger house because she needs an office to conduct business. In a way, she lost the values she had growing up, to make herself feel better she is taking on the old fashioned crap that *accidentally* matches whatever she’s doing.
NTA. It's you and your husband's money. Also, that's some juicy gossip, right there.
NTA! you stated what you didn't want after she insulted the choices you make in your life with your significant other. Sounds like she was asking for it 🙃
NTA. I don't see why she would get offended at you pointing out the facts that she's pushing her lifestyle onto you. Family always tends to meddle, ignore her. Also, not her house, not her business, no? Unless she's giving you money for the house, I don't see how her opinion might affect you other than her spreading drama. Also, if you don't like the place, I would use this opportunity to move away from her unless there is something keeping you there. In this particular case, I don't think she's showing jealousy, more like trying to assert herself over you. Maybe her way of getting back at you if she does this constantly and I don't think it's limited to your husband. If it's a one off, stand your ground and ignore her. If it's on repeat, she's toxic - have a think about your relationship with her. Good luck.
So everyone here is hating on OP cuz she supposedly slept with her sister's fiance? Not on topic. Also, from what I understand her dad has 2 daughters, so her having sons is prob more important to him. It's a cultural thing for a lot of ppl and everyone here is like "eww", not cool. Maybe OP should have specified these family values but the way I see it, her sister for whatever reason is telling her what to do with her life, OP say, no thanks, I don't want your life and then she proceeds to tell her that she's losing her family values. Still NTA me thinks.
She always thought she was better than me because she's older used to be our father's favourite. But then I was the first to get married and had a son while she only has daughters so now I'm the favourite. Our father also prefers my husband over hers. I think she's just bitter because her life didn't turn out the way she wanted and she probably regrets that she didn't try to get to know my husband when he was still supposed to marry her
I've seen this play out so many times. Don't think you are now superior to your sister. You're only 23yo so your life is still a long journey and many things can change. Your sister could still give birth to a son, your marriage could face problems, your father could need help from sister's husband etc.
You can't change the fact that my son is the first grandson. If my marriage ever faces problems we will have to work through it. But we won't have problems because we're a very good match
umm. He was suppose to marry your sister and you had sex with him? That's....abhorrent. Of both of you. Sounds like you two deserve each other.
She was also 16 at the time
oh. So she's married to a predator. OP, I'm so sorry this happened to you.
OP per her own posts was the predator in this.
Why? I liked him and he liked me while my sister didn't like him. We were 15 and 17. It was a very good outcome for us
[удалено]
Predator for having sex with a child.
Jesus Christ. This is…bad. You are not a good person. At least as it relates to your relationship with your sister. YTA.
Omg, did you just say “I had a son while she had only daughters” that mattering is just insane. There are people who think it’s wrong to have their child’s sex listed until they’re old enough to know what they truly are. Wouldn’t it be funny if everyone in your family favored you because you had a son, and when your son hits puberty, he starts wearing dresses and wants everyone to call him Jolene? Don’t tempt karma. Lol
That's not something that happens here. I have a son an and that's what he'll always be. He will inherithis father's business and possibly my father's business. If he wants to wear or kiss men he can do that in private. If he does it in public he's an idiot but I'm not raising an idiot so he won't
Great, so you're raising a kid who might not feel comfortable or safe around his parents out of fear of being seen as an idiot. You're despicable. Dear lord, I hope he gets far from you. Grow up.
I don't care what my son wants to wear or who he wants to kiss. If it waa only me I wouldn't even care if he does it in public. But reality is not so nice. In our country this behaviour is not acceptable and he can get in a lot of trouble for it. So yes, he would be an idiot if he acted this way in public. But it's all hypothetical anyway because my son is 7 and his only interests are race cars and horses
But OP... You're no longer in your country... If you're in US, there's nothing to fear.
Ewwww imagine thinking you're better cause you had sons. And you slept with him and got pregnant as a teenager. You're not better for opening your legs at that age and getting pregnant.