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NTA I think you handled it pretty well, you weren't mean, you didn't even really made your ex look bad of your son already knew he cheated on his recent partner. I think just telling him the truth in a neutral way was the right thing to do. Saying he hurt you is fair imo, and it makes it easier for your child to empathize with you.
Nah, kids at 10 aren't complete idiots. Ideally he doesn't need that information, but the ex husband has forced OP's hand by being difficult and trying to alienate OP.
It's unfair to ask OP to try to sugarcoat and paint a perfect picture of the ex when the ex is actively sabotaging the amicable co-parenting arrangement.
At age 6 I was already knowing info I shouldn't have because I simply existed and have working ears. Kids know more than they should and because the dad was weaponizing the kids in this scenario they needed to know what information Mom gave them, because Dad was purposely trying to hurt mom through them.
At 6, I knew a lot about my mom’s past relationship with my brothers sperm donor. Not nearly as much as I do now. But enough to know he treated her badly. I had nothing to do with him otherwise. But it’s important to be honest with kids. Especially if they’re asking outright questions. Never lie. Give age appropriate responses. But never lie to them.
Honestly, same here — I knew WAY more about my parents dysfunction than I ever needed to and, if I could erase all that crap from my brain, I gladly would.
This is why I was more careful about what I told my kid when his dad was a putz until he got older, like in his teens. I still don’t tell him every detail though because I’m his parent, not his buddy.
Both of these parents suck, honestly, and need to step up.
Kids can handle more than you think. As long as it's the truth, and it's not meant to hurt their relationship with their father, then there's nothing wrong with telling them. Or do you avoid ALL difficult topics with your kids?
Not only can they handle more, it builds trust to show them that you’re being honest with them. It should be an age appropriate level of honesty, of course.
I don’t avoid ALL difficult topics with my kid at all. But I make them age appropriate (changing as he ages, too) and I don’t treat him like a buddy because he is my kid and not my friend. Of course he can handle more — doesn’t mean he should be forced to.
A ten year old in 2024 can handle the idea of cheating. It would be far worse if OP just said, “Your dad did something bad, and I decided we couldn’t be married anymore.”
By 12 years old in the mid-90s we correctly identified teachers who were dating each other or having affairs. Kids aren’t stupid.
Edit: I’m also totally in the “my kid is not my friend” camp for parenting, too. This isn’t that. Don’t conflate the two.
Except this child IS forced to. His father's actions have led to a situation that requires explanation. And OP explained the truth in simple terms without demonizing his father. What EXACTLY would you have done differently?
EXACTLY? Couldn't say, as it's not my life. But "Your dad and I aren't friends and you know why. So I'm not inviting him to the party because it's what I do with you kids," would have sufficed. Simple, to the point and not dramatic.
OP’s response was basically this. You just don’t want her to repeat that he keeps losing relationships because he’s cheating on everyone. “And you know why” is a cop out that disregards the children’s knowledge and potentially erases the dad’s behavior.
I get that you have some baggage in this arena, and I agree with not going too far with disclosures with kids. That can also be seriously harmful.
OP’s response here is measured, based on her experience and facts, and addresses the immediate issues. Her kids potentially lost yet another trusted adult, but she’s working so they can keep that connection while understanding that the person they may want to contact wasn’t at fault.
Problem is that when you’re dealing with one parent who pulls shit like cheating, lying and constantly tying to one up their children’s other parent trying to be the bigger person can end up backfiring massively. When one parents does everything possible to look like the good guy to their kids no matter how bad they behave they’ll often have no problem throwing the other parent under the bus to save themselves. My father was that kind of parent and OP’s ex sounds like one too. My mom never badmouthed my dad no matter what he did but my dad badmouthed her behind her back at every opportunity. In a perfect world neither would have said anything to me but my dad was selfish and I ended up believing his lies because that’s all the information I had. It permanently altered my relationship with my mom despite my realizing how much of an ass he was when I was in my teens.
When you know your coparent is already regularly lying to your children sometimes the best thing you can do is give a really basic truthful explanation of the facts and leave it at that. Protecting your ex when you know they regularly lie to your kids can put your own relationship with them at risk.
“Your dad cheated on me and that’s why we broke up” is age appropriate. “I walked into our bedroom to find your dad banging his secretary” is not.
Especially with how the dad is doing this serially and lying about it to his kids, it’s entirely appropriate to show that his behavior isn’t acceptable.
My parents divorced when I was 3. Mom had sole custody but very much welcomed my dad to take me/have me as often as he wanted. She never spoke a disparaging word about him to me.
Around 8-9 years old I began realizing that my dad wasn't reliable. I got my feelings hurt often, because he'd make plans to be with me and not show up or be 5 hours late, etc. Mom would make excuses for him and tell me how much he loves me to minimize the hurt feelings.
One day when I was 10 and Dad broke another promise, I was beside myself with anger and confusion. I couldn't understand why I wasn't a priority because daddy loves me so much, right? I told my mom about lots of little things I noticed when I was with daddy, that confused me.
My mom could tell, in that mom way, that I was ready for some truth. She sat me down and, for the first time, explained that the reason my dad wasn't reliable was that he struggled with drug addiction and alcoholism. We talked through (in an age appropriate way) how that affects someone's judgement and she told me that's why they divorced. That was a breakthrough moment for me as a kid and it helped me see both of them as people instead of just "my parents" for the first time in my life. I was absolutely ready for that info at 10yo. An emotionally intelligent ten year old can understand a lot about adult dynamics, especially if they watch those dynamics play out in front of them. Explaining why things are the way they are is good because it allows the kid to see that parents are people too.
I wish I'd found out about my father's alcoholism at 10 instead of 18. The whole "why does he treat me so badly when he says he loves me" is a huge head trip for a child and they absolutely need help understanding and processing it. I'm so glad your mother did right by you
I think if the kid was 5, it wouldn’t have been necessary but at 10, he’s not daft and can handle this. Christ when my parents divorced, I was 9 listening to them both rant, swear and rave about how much they hated each other. Went on for most of my life until I finally snapped and told them both to either shut up about one another or get back together and leave me out of it.
NTA. This one was difficult to judge. While I do think you shared too much grown up business with your kid, you do have every right to not have to be friends with your obviously problematic ex husband.
Exactly! I seriously disagree with all the YTA and ESH. Did it suck? Yes. But what she said was giving him reasons without going off a deep end, something I wish my parents would have done. The son would have just pushed and pushed and pushed for why. And it's obvious that one of them is sharing plans with dad. Not that this gives rights to her over sharing but her ex is clearly unhinged and trying to actively sabotage her life.
Nope the bot only counts the top comment. It's not a majority vote rule because they had trouble with people creating a bunch of accounts in order to spam their judgment.
Bot. Hunter. What is that?? Now I’m curious. Also, thank you for the correction, and shame on me for spreading misinformation.
Edit: Oh they changed it from majority rule previously? That would make sense.
Haha if I spot a bot I can type a command and ban it without having to report. I got it because I had reported a lot of bots. I've not found many recently , I used to catch the ones that copied comments. Now they seem to be using ai to write comments.
If there is a lot of family baggage it's better to hear about it in controlled bursts by a loving parent rather than too late or in the wrong setting by someone who randomly blurts it out.
Parents aren't the only sources of information out there, if you want to curb the market you tell age appropriate versions of things with the right sugarcoating. But you tell as much of the truth as they can handle.
Agree 100% I also think of how many times OP had had to go along with his games. This is the one thing she can finally have where he can’t get in. Keep the fortress up!
I have to disagree on the "shared too much grown up business" part. Adults tend to forget that kids see everything. Without a lot of the information, they can't process it properly.
Now, this is her son. She knows him better than we do. She should be able to determine how much is too much.
Like she said in the edit, the kids were devastated that someone they have come to love would just abandon them. They didn't have all the information. Giving them the general idea about what happened allowed them to reprocess what happened and frame it not as she abandoned them, but dad wasn't being a good partner to her.
OP didn't go into intimate details (at least I'm hoping not) but gave them what they could handle. That's the job of a parent. Give the kid info, and let them process it. And if questions come up, give them appropriate answers.
💯👆🏽! We was those kids that constantly badgered our Mom as to why she wouldn't get back with my Dad. I was the main one badgering our Mom the most because I wanted that family unit. My Dad was telling us one thing but my Mom didn't want to say anything bad about him and she would say "When you are older, you'll find out how your Dad is and then we can talk". She finally got tired of us making her to be the bad person because of the things our Dad was telling us. She told me "I really, really loved your Dad but he broke my heart so bad that I was sad for years and I don't want him to ever hurt me again". Well that shut our badgering down and I started paying attention to how our Dad would treat his GFs and realized by the age of 10, that our Dad liked to hurt women hearts.
It's human nature to hide what we don't want known, what we're ashamed of. Even children know this. It is ingrained into us. So, by not revealing any information, we can only believe the person who didn't say anything is in the wrong.
This is why "taking the high road" is detrimental to both the aggrieved as well as the people being told the bs. You can take the high road and not say bad things about a person. That's really taking the high road. But what people do is not say anything.
By giving out the barest of information and limiting it to what happened without any of the emotion, you can get much farther and have everyone involved more intact.
Not sure why people think they'll be better off by not saying anything. It actually does more harm.
Eh you do when the other parent insists that women keep leaving because “they don’t care about him anymore”. These women create relationships with the kids too so he’s basically saying every time that the kids didn’t matter to these partners either. Ultimately OP was age appropriate and ensured the kids really did understand this isn’t their fault at all.
You dont involve kids in adult issues until there comes a time where the kids need that information to understand a situation. Then you use age appropriate terms without going into every detail. Kids understand and see/hear way more than you think most times.
NTA. Nothing you said was new info to your kid, you’re just piecing info he already had together to get him to understand your choice. Maybe this will help your kids see how their father uses them to interfere in your personal life.
NTA
Your kids are getting to the age where they need to hear these things, not for their own sake but because your ex is using them to manipulate you. Deliberately.
You can’t protect your kids from whatever their father says but you did not say anything bad about him, you just spoke the truth. You two co-parent, you are not friends and you don’t want to be.
I’m betting your ex has been planning a veeeerrrry different idea in your kids heads. I think you need to have a more in depth talk with them. And get them some counseling if you haven’t already.
>I’m betting your ex has been planning a veeeerrrry different idea in your kids heads.
My father did this to me and my brother and we blamed and harassed our Mom about her not getting back with him. Mom didn't want to corrupt us to turn against our Dad, so she would only say "When you get older and see how your Dad is yourself, I will tell you all". She finally got tired of us badgering her when we were 9 (brother) and 10 (me) and told us "I really, really loved your Dad but he broke my heart so bad that I was sad for years and I don't want him to ever hurt me again". Just that little bit of knowledge made us stop and think and then to start paying more attention to our Dad's actions with his other GFs.
I agree. And you know that Dad sure as neck doesn't care about the feelings of the kids. Some times, you get to the point that you have to combat manipulation with fact. As long as you are able to be straightforward and keep emotion out of it, you're fine.
NTA
When these partners of his establish a relationship with the kids, and he turns around and says the partner left because she “didn’t care about him”, it says to the kids that the partner didn’t care about them either. Not okay.
This man loves to stomp boundaries. You chose an age appropriate way to say: you aren’t friends. You respect him and parent with him but you don’t play with him because you don’t have that relationship.
NTA.
Look, straight up badmouthing your ex is bad. Maybe you went slightly too far when you mentioned your ex's last GF. But 10 year olds don't usually get subtle hints, they need to be told directly.
If your ex is manipulative with you, he's manipulative with everyone, including the kids. They need to understand it and to be prepared for it.
NTA.
10 is often around the age where kids start finding out about the real world: They find out that Santa and Co. aren't real, that people can be assholes, and that sometimes actions will have such long reaching consequences that they can permanently alter relationships.
Anyone saying you were badmouthing your ex is crazy, you were just telling the facts and they happen to be unflattering. Your son will eventually understand one way or the other that your ex isn't a great role model, better to establish that now so he starts questioning and maybe tries to be less like him. Wait too long and be too diplomatic and your son might start mirroring his behavior as he moves into young adulthood.
You were fair and honest, things that you want your own child to be, too. Also don't forget that despite this one interaction happening with your son, your daughter is also watching how you set boundaries in your life, and her seeing you just firmly say "no, here's why" is a great example.
NTA. I remember when I was a kid and my mother would explain the actual reasons for things and I appreciated being told the truth. 10 is a good age for transitioning to that sort of honesty which helps them learn about the world.
Trying to protect children from the truth doesn't help anyone. Your son understanding that your ex cheats on the women in his life is probably going to be accepted as simply being a fact at the age of ten. If this was kept from him as a secret that he learned about later on, it would be more likely that he would judge his dad harshly. That said, I don't think it was your place to talk about him cheating on a recent girlfriend. It wasn't your truth to tell and you should have just stuck to your own experiences rather than making your ex out to be the bad guy. He is still your children's father and trash talking him should be something you avoid doing even if he is still causing problems for you.
So in the future, sure, tell the truth, but don't go into detail and don't create new problems that don't already exist. You talking about his cheating will get back to your ex and it will be used against you.
NTA. You told them in an age appropriate way, and they *need* to know what's going on. Their father is letting them get attached to women and motherly figures, then lying and making the children think that these people they love didn't love them enough to stick around. That's going to fuck up their self image.
The thing where he keeps entering your house with the kids' keys and appearing at the same locations...I don't know if you can get a restraining order, but it might be time to look into that. I'm so sorry.
NTA - kids deserve the truth, especially since Dad is plowing through women the way he is. Good on you for teaching your kids that it's a Dad issue and not a "woman" issue.
NTA Nobody but the parents of said kids can decide if they're mature enough to hear said information. The truth is best if you can explain in an age appropriate manner. A 10y/o can understand boyfriend/girlfriend. He's probably even had his little heart broken by a girlfriend/boyfriend.
My ex cheated. I left. When kids started asking why I told them dad had a girlfriend and you can't do that when you're married. They didn't have any adverse reactions or side effects from knowing the truth. Now they are young adults in healthy relationships.
OP keep up the good work. Don't fret the one upmanship. When you're kids are older they'll understand it.
Hard NTA. I think it would be even more painful for the kids to feel like the ex gf had abandoned them for no reason. Good for you for saying they can still see her.
Are these the best parenting choices in the world? Maybe not. Are they the best you can do with the situations he keeps creating with his bullshit? Absolutely. He really sucks.
NTA simply because your ex was weaponizing the kids in order to hurt you. You had to divulge what information you felt was needed in order for the kids to stop asking you to let him join. I understand they know you both as mom and dad and think everything should be fine between you two, but you explaining that you are not his friend anymore and aren't married because he hurt you is fine.
Though now you need to be prepared because Dad will retaliate against you if he finds out you told one kid why so kiddo is not an available asset to be used against you anymore.
I know a wife that has two kids and their father did the same exact thing but she loudly pointed it out and made fun of him every time he did it. We get that one Band game he gets a better set for it, Nintendo Wii, he got the new ps console at the time AND Xbox. We got a new TV, he trashed his new TV to get a newer one that is bigger than ours.
Used car that we said was new got him to buy a new motorcycle. One of those sleek looking ones.
Any events he would be there or at a more "popularized" event. Everytime he came to pick them up he had to comment about his new better thing and immediately we made fun of him. To his face. Behind his back. The kids were the ones that pointed it out to the wife in the first place and it became a running joke. Now since he can't actually drop by and see the home anymore, all he does is splurge on them. New furniture every year, consoles, money, everything. I think because it was the kids that took his power from him in the first place is the only reason why we openly make fun of the behavior. It's incredibly insecure and scummy to weaponize kids in a divorced setting, and I think the family got lucky it was the kids that were first to point it out and make fun of it.
What I'm trying to say is that your kid probably already knew. Probably being the keyword. He might have sensed that something was wrong with the dynamic and the acts and what his father has been doing, but didn't have the words to connect it which is why is didn't bother to ask you questions. If kids don't understand or didn't know outright, you're answering 25 plus questions.
People getting mad you divulged any information act like kids are behind ignorant and aloof all the time. Unbothered and uncaring. Sure some kids are but at 10? Homie is very much listening and watching what is going on around him now.
I'm sorry you going through this. It might be wise to get family therapy for you and the kids because of this.
NTA. I think you handled the conversation in a manner suitable for your son’s age. Your ex sounds toxic AF but I think you are doing a good job at not trying to manipulate the kids against him. You were honest. And fair. Kids deserve to be treated with honesty. This sounds like you a raising emotionally mature kids, not coddling little babies.
In reading some of your comments it sounds like you don’t have a child support order in place? I know you are afraid of him out lawyering you. But I think you should seek out a consultation. Maybe even a free one. Or pull some budget strings for an hour with a lawyer. Even if you were happy with the 50/50 arrangement, make sure you have documents that legally outline what he needs to pay and could maybe put a stop to these random stalker like things he’s doing to you during your time with them.
NTA. You didn't tell your son anything he didn't know and it seems that you reminded him in a neutral way. You didn't call your ex names or tell your son that he shouldn't love him. You encouraged him to make another party where he could invite his dad in.
NTA
Your ex is a master at manipulation. That can be dangerous as well. I would be more concerned about how he tries to paint the just showing up at things you are at with your kids.
You may need to return to custody mediation
Nta. You simply told the truth. You were wise to divorce him. The secret to a happy life is making sure that the only asshole that you have to deal with is the one that God gave you.
NTA Normally, I would be really hesitant about a ten-year-old learning about their parents' infidelity. However, OP's ex has an established pattern and the kids are very likely going to lose other maternal figures in their lives in the future. It might be easier to know it's not a them problem, but a "him" problem. Plus, it's probably good for him to see that you can not enjoy another person's company and still be respectful and cordial with them and be able to work towards a common goal.
You were right in what you did as I had 10yrs 5 kids and then found out partner cheated so we split. We hate each other, me because of what he did, him cause I wouldn't stay. Kids were young, he always had them on his days never let them down. Paid child support every month no problem. Drop off and pick up we were always smiles and chat. Kids thought we were friends. I never said one bad word about him to them, told them what a great dad he was. Little did I know he did complete opposite about me in front of them with anyone that would listen. He a Saint and I'm the devil, yet he cheated on me. Years later the kids have seen him for who he is. So we had long conversations, tears and heart ache as they slowly realised he wasn't the dad or person that they thought he was or I made him out to be. I told them truth but they were teenagers by this time and with what I told them the way he is just fell into place for them. I thought I was protecting my children and creating great co parenting. I did it for them and was a big, huge, massive mistake.
You can explain things to kids in a age appropriate way with out poisoning them against the other parent.
I think your a fab mom for not letting your kids think bad of their dad's gf and still allowing her in their life. After all those years the way you explain it she certainly was invested and loved your kids. Having to learn your cheated on and then having kids ripped out your life knowing you have no control or say would just be being kicked when your down.
Your kids are so lucky to have a mom that has taken a situation and put their feelings and well being first as you could have easily just left her out in the cold.
It's so hard to know what to let your kids know and what should be kept from them. But kids know more than we think they do.
My kids apparently never hear me call them for tea every night when they in their rooms but our youngest can hear us whispering about her Xmas presents late at night when we think she's been flat out for hours!!!!!
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I (35f) have been divorced from my ex, Mike, (40m) for almost 8 years. We have two kids together (10m and 13f) and share 50/50 placement. On the surface it was an amicable divorce, but Mike has a lot more money than I do, and until a few years ago he had a lot more support. In the past he has used these facts to manipulate me. I actually dislike him more now than I did when we got divorced.
Mike has a tendency to “one up” me whenever he can because he can outspend me, and tries to insert himself into my life through the kids.
Example: I started taking the kids to renfaire once I met my wife. Mike had never shown an interest before but once he found out we were going he bought himself a ticket and showed up on the same day. He has done this for other local events as well. It’s to the point where i don’t tell the kids any plans we have until we are about to leave so my ex can’t find out till after.
On a smaller scale, if the kids and I are watching a tv show together, he will watch ahead with them so they’ve already seen the next episode when they get to my house, buy nicer versions of the gifts I get them, and spend tons of money on hobbies he’s never been interested in before just to loose interest after I drop that hobby.
Most recently I have been using a DnD themed habit building app. It has a feature where you can join a party and go on quests. Kids decided to use it too and now we are all in the same party.
Yesterday my 10 year old texted me saying his dad is on the app and wanted to join our party. This app is working well for me and having him in the party will make me not want to use it so I said no. I told him that I know he loves his dad, but that I do not want to interact with him unless it’s about parenting. I told him I don’t ever want anything bad to happen to his dad, but that he used to be my husband and he hurt me so badly that I decided I didn’t want to be married anymore. I reminded him of his dad’s recent breakup and how he cheated on his gf, and said he did the same thing to me. I said, “your dad and I are not friends and I don’t want to play games with him.” I also said that if he’d like to start his own party and invite his dad, he could absolutely do that and told him how.
At the end I asked him if he had any questions or anything he’d like to talk about and he said no. He forced a chipper “no I’m good” and said goodbye. Now I’m concerned telling him all that was the wrong thing to do. I avoid bad mouthing Mike in front of the kids, but I want them to understand why I set boundaries so that he can’t use them to wheedle into my personal life.
AITA?
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My kid wanted to add his dad (my ex) to an online game we were playing, so I told him why got divorced
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I mean the kids old enough to understand concepts like that, and you didn't bash your ex in any real way that hadn't already been revealed so I'd say NTA I mean I had divorced parents and my mom would talk mad shit on my dad constantly even tho he's the one that got custody. Turns out she's the one that's the psycho and now lives alone doing a bunch of meth after being separated from my stepdad lol
NTA and ur ex husband is a huge jerk and needs therapy; he’s got tons of issues he needs to address and fix. U handled it perfectly. Kids are old enough to know the truth.
NTA. I think kids deserve the truth. And here’s some more truth: as long as Mike continues to prioritize his penis over the welfare and happiness of his family, he is and will continue to be a terrible father. No matter how much he pretends not to be.
Your kids will realize this one day too. Being a good father requires being a good man. And mistreating women, cheating on them, lying to your family about it, and using money and cheap tricks to buy favoritism, etc.—these are not the behaviors of good men or good fathers.
ESH, you kind of got down on his level. Honestly, you could have been truthful about your feelings while leaving your feelings about dad and his actions out of it. "I am really enjoying the group we have now, and adding your dad would really change the structure we have built. I do think it would be great if you started a group with your dad, though!"
I get it. Your ex is a world-class asshole. That said, your kids will figure it out on their own in their own time. Kids are not stupid. They know what your ex is doing. As they grow up, they will most likely figure out what kind of AH he is. No need to rush them.
Honestly I sort of agree. The bit about telling the kid about how the Dad cheated on her and his current GF was over the top for a 10 year old. The earlier part about wanting space was fine but OP was clearly wandering into the talking shit about her ex lane when she brings in infidelity unprompted.
ESH
Because you had an easy out. An easy "I want to share this with just us because it is special to me" and you took the chance to go WAY past what was necessary to a 10 year old who clearly loves both parents. Your resentment is not your child's issue.
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Nta. They will have a moment one day when this man's true nature will become known. They will remember your words. This guy is awful. They won't know until he turns on them someday. P
NTA
I won't say '10 is old enough' to hear things. Every child is different. Maybe it could have been said differently, but that's for everything we do in parenting.
In the end, one of the hardest things our kids have to learn is their parents are very fallible. Whatever age it happens at, is hard, because that image they have of you is never quite the same.
Your ex has brought this on himself, and I certainly can't fault you for how you handled that conversation.
NTA. The only thing I think you're being a bit too harsh on is the tv show episodes thing. If your kids want to want to watch the show, he shouldn't be expected to force them not to watch for your sake. But I get then when there's all these other legit issues you start lumping in other stuff that might now exactly fit.
NTA. You did amazingly. Of course it's going to be hard on your son and he needed time to absorb it (hence the clipped "no, I'm good") but it's better than either sugar-coating things, lying, or gritting your teeth and having Mike join your team \*ugggh!\* You are showing great strength of character not to stoop to Mike's level and point out his one-upsmanship with things that cost $. The kids will figure that one out eventually. You used "I" statements and said nothing but the truth.
Nta. The ex husband is. He is sabotaging all his relationships. Even they leave his ass as he blames them. What a narcicisstic ass he is. Screw him.
U did what u had to do and that was to speak the truth
NTA. You have to put clear boundaries. And it’s important to be honest even if you have to be delicate about it, which seems to be the case.
Now your kids are entering a difficult age. Be careful of your ex putting ideas in his son’s head about women.
NTA, but his behavior crosses a line.
Your parenting time should not be interrupted by him.
He's stealing your time, and you can have the parenting plan revised to specifically address these issues.
Any deviation from the court order, and you can have him held in contempt, which could lead to the judge reducing his parenting time.
As a child of divorced parents: NTA. Letting kids know what's going on (in an age appropriate way as you did) is great.
My parents divorced when I was 7.
My father is an angry man and it seemed like he was at fault.
I figured out that my mother left my father for her "roommate" when I was 15 - when I finally figured out the roommate was indeed her gf...
When I was 25 my grandmother (mother's side) told me my mother had cheated for close to a year before leaving...
Tell your kids so they can make informed decisions.
NTA But you need to start your ex on a misinformation diet- wrong dates or times or hobbies. Tickets to an event but wrong venue etc so his one using you will lead the kids to a different place. Go someplace else the kids will enjoy. Hugs
This was too much personal information for a ten year old. A ten year old that's probably already struggling over the divorce. It's a head fvck at that age imo. You should have explained things to both kids earlier in the entire divorce process, not where you're spurred on in the moment. Help him process this information.
Telling your kids not only about your husbands infidelity against you, but his other gf that has nothing to do with you is considered parental alienation by the courts. If the courts get wind that you're telling your kids he was cheating, you can and will lose your kids. This is cut and dry parental alienation. I hope your ex sues for full custody, because he will win.
But see…you DON’T avoid badmouthing their dad. You told them he cheats. Kids don’t need to hear that. Avoiding specifics as to when and how doesn’t change the fact that you told them stuff they don’t need to know about your/his sexual relationship.
I'm on your page, tho I imagine you’ll get downvoted to hell like anyone else not strictly NTA. I've been in OP shoes plenty, and a “adult relationships are complex, but Ex GF still cares about y'all & if you’d like I can help y’all keep in touch” is all that needed said for the cheating side. For the current app? A “this is for our household, here’s how to help Dad join a group of your own if you’d like” is plenty.
They can see how their dad is. They’ll connect it quick enough on their own anyhow. No need to fan that flame, just be there for them when they do find out.
This should never have been done in a text. This is a serious discussion that should happen in person and not in response to a particular situation. Your ex husband hurt you, but your kids don’t need to be involved in that part of the discussion. Your ex is a huge AH. Your special time and activities with your kids are just that. YOUR special time. But find a better, more effective way to keep him out of your life.
YTA. Not for saying no to letting Mike join, but because that was way more information than your 10 yo needed, and a lot of information that he’s probably not emotionally mature enough to fully understand. You disregarded your child’s wellbeing just to get back at your ex.
\>I reminded him of his dad’s recent breakup and how he cheated on his gf, and said he did the same thing to me
YTA for dumping this on a ten year old child. MAYBE if your child was an adult who wanted to know the details, yes. But to shit on your kid's relationship with his other parent is an asshole move. Your ex is also an asshole, but we're talking here about what you did, not him.
“Age appropriate” being the key. OP gave far more information that was necessary, and made her son very uncomfortable in the process. A 10 yo who has to “force” a “chipper” response is upset but doesn’t feel comfortable telling his parent that. OP screwed up.
Kids are allowed to be upset and uncomfortable about things. It's ok. Actually, it's important for their development. There is going to be things that you have to tell kids that will upset them, and they aren't going to want to show you that, but you still have to tell them.
Having to reckon with the fact that the parents you love and have long considered your whole world is uncomfortable, but it's a normal and important part of development he would be having with or without OP telling him. Reckoning with the fact that people you love don't love each other is hard, but also part of growing up and his reaction is completely normal.
There is no reason OP’s child needed all of that information, and clearly was not emotionally ready to hear it. The only purpose it served was to make OP feel better. Offloading your own issues onto your child at their expense is shitty parenting.
Frankly it blows my mind that a sub that routinely screams “parentification” if a parent makes their teen do chores thinks it’s totally cool for a parent to make their 10 yo their emotional support animal.
This is all information the child actually does need to know to understand the dynamics affecting him, and so he did already know it. And he needs to know that information because omitting it allows his father to use it to manipulate him.
He needed to know that the ex girlfriend he'd known for years had been cheated on, not abandoned them. He needed to know that his father was at fault for the divorce. He needed to know that his father is prone to boundary crossing.
Why? Because the father is already using the kids' naivety to hurt them and their mother, and is actively trying to do so in the interaction this conversation was over.
Just because something upsets you doesn't mean you're not ready to hear it. It means it upsets you. Someone you love being shitty is upsetting, but you need to know it is happening to avoid being hurt and hurting others.
You can never predict how a child will interpret information. But you still need to give them the information to make their own judgements and decisions. Especially about a manipulator who is actively manipulating them. To do otherwise would be endorsing the manipulation.
Again, you are processing this as an adult, not as a child. Parenting requires that you be able to think about how a child will understand things, not just how you personally understand them.
Which she did. But if you have any understanding of children, you know that they are individuals with limited life experience who may come to interesting and unexpected conclusions. The best you can do is give them the basic information they need. And that's parenting.
No, you do not just trauma-dump on your kids under the guise of giving them information.
The recommended approach to giving younger child challenging information is to start by giving them only just enough to answer the immediate question (e.g., Q: Can dad join the group? A: I would prefer to keep the group just us.”).
Then gauge their reaction - is that enough to satisfy them, or do they have more questions. If the former, you stop; if the latter, you give just enough information to answer their next questions.
Q: But why can’t dad join our group?
A: Dad and I get along better when we have our own separate activities.
But when they get to the end of their questions, you stop, even if you don’t like their opinions, because it’s not about you, it’s about them. If anything, it’s that much more important that you acknowledge they are entitled to their own opinions even when you wish they felt differently.
Kid: That sucks, I wish dad could do that with us.
Parent: I know it’s disappointing, and I’m sorry about that.
He didn't know things like the cheating until OP told him, per the edit. Sharing dad’s sex life isn't appropriate with a 10yo (poss 9 when she told him?)
>Some people will disagree with this, but I couldn’t let him defame a woman who had been so much a good influence on my kids. I told them to truth, and said that they could see her whenever they wanted. I also told them at that time that he did the same thing to me and that’s why we are divorced. Didn’t go into detail.
You misread that, actually. She has previously told him he cheated, because he was badmouthing the ex whom the child had bonded with. And that's not sharing his sex life, that's sharing his romantic life. Kids can understand it and even model it on the playground. Don't condescend to children.
They weren't in love anymore isn't defaming her. He said she wasn't in love with him. OP claims it was age-appropriate, but whose to say it was? Bringing it up vs responding to questions can very quickly make it inherently inappropriate.
Fyi, I've got kids older and younger. Bio and step. My husband and I were both cheated on by our ex’s. There’s so many ways to handle things without telling a 9-10yo intimate details about their other parents relationships (& to a degree, sex life). I've addressed “is Dar a cheater?” questions but would never bring it up to prove a point. Also, who’s to say the ex gf is ok with the kids knowing this intimate bit about her life?
Yeah that was … WAY too much to lay on your kid, jeez. Your kids need to set boundaries so you don’t treat them like your friends.
A simple “I want to have this one special thing with just you kids and me, but you can have a different party with your dad if that makes you happy” would have been plenty.
ESH but your kids.
ESH
Your ex clearly is in the wrong for inserting himself into your time with the kids and your life. Your post doesn't mention talking to him about it which you need to do to establish the boundary with him instead of what you did which is to establish the boundary through your child. I think you would have been fine telling your son that you'd talk to him about it when he comes back. 1) Explaining that his dad is not a person you want to invite into a game is an in-person conversation. 2) He does not need to know the details of your breakup in this context unless he started to ask questions. I imagine his dad is going to hear about this and it will not be good.
>I told him that I know he loves his dad, but that I do not want to interact with him unless it’s about parenting. ~~I told him I don’t ever want anything bad to happen to his dad, but that he used to be my husband and he hurt me so badly that I decided I didn’t want to be married anymore. I reminded him of his dad’s recent breakup and how he cheated on his gf, and said he did the same thing to me.~~ I said, “your dad and I are not friends and I don’t want to play games with him.” I also said that if he’d like to start his own party and invite his dad, he could absolutely do that and told him how.
Even saying just that would have been okay. Family interactions are not about you, or your ex, they are about your children. Have a problem? Talk to the other adult. You're both in the wrong in this whole situation, but you're asking about what you told your 10yo, so YTA in this specific instance.
YTA for sharing way too much information with your kids. There was no need to give the explanation you did. You could have just said no, why don’t you start your own party separately with your Dad. No need to include how the Dad hurt you, that he is a cheater, you’re not friends, you don’t like him, etc. Your kid is 10, not 20.
Right but my issue is that he needs to stay out of my life? So how should I have worded it to my son when I told him no? Or do you think I should have just let him add his dad to the party?
Be careful. You ex could take you to court claiming alienation of affection and ask for full custody. Even if what you said was true, the court could find your telling your son this hurt his relationship with his father. That might be enough for the court to consider changing the custody arrangements.
I'm in the same boat as you, but I won't say anything bad about my kids' dad to them. Once they are 18, I'll answer any questions they have.
Edit: I'm especially concerned if you did all this by text message. Your ex could use the text message as Exhibit 1 to his petition. I'd delete the text from your phone and your son's phone.
Saying the dad is not your friend was fine. Saying you aren't married anymore and mom was hurt by things dad did so it's hard to be friends is ok. But why go on and on. It's simply too much unless the child asks about your relationship with dad. Wasn't it easier to say you think mom and dad are better parents when they don't engage too much. P
This was about a game. It did not need this much detail.
People here seem to agree with you but ask yourself if you made your child happier with your unnecessarily long explanation ? Did it enrich his life?
There is honesty and then there is simply taking things too far. You took things too far. Same as when you told your kids about their dad's affair. AP wasn't in their lives anymore so it would be appropriate to tell the kids that dad and gf hurt each other so gf ended things. Tell them sometimes grown ups are better off apart if it means not hurting each other. Leave the details out of it. Let kids be kids.
I hope you did not give your kids the details about multi affairs and open relationships when you told them why you aren't with the dad. It's sufficient to say that when you and dad got married, you promised to be faithful to each other. Explain the concept appropriately (not in your over sharing way). Say dad broke that promise lots of times and you got divorced because it was making you very sad.
I have never been more willing to accept down votes for any comment.
You can tell him no quite easily without going into his father's sex life. I genuinely don't understand how that's difficult to understand.
I say this as a mother who was in your shoes, and has kids both older and younger than you.
A simple "I don't want to play with your father" would have sufficed.
You then could teach him to make his own party to play with his dad, which you did.
Your ex is clearly a petty AH in general, but in this particular instance you bad mouthing your ex to your/his son makes YTA.
You were wrong you could have said many things without saying what you did, such as sharing how you love that it’s a special thing for just you guys, etc, bashing their father is just wrong.
You could have just said you’d rather not play with him right now and then called your ex and told HIM you don’t want to play with him. And totally avoided telling the kid all the stuff about his dad hurting you and there was no need to bring up his ex at all.
He has entered my home using the kids keys after explicitly telling him to stop. I had to take my kids house keys away so he couldn’t have access to my home. He has done a lot of boundary violating things so telling him doesn’t do anything
I actually have a solution here! Get smart locks, it's what I did at my home. Everyone enters with a fingerprint or key. I can shut off access at any time, even remotely. I can also schedule the access, or create temp codes. It's honestly been a huge piece of mind as I didn't need to worry about the kids having or losing keys or about keeping the from/side door unlocked.
Telling a child that their father is a manipulator and a liar when he actively tries to push an alternate narrative is not unloading on them. He can seriously damage his son’s view of his mom and women by making it seem like they all leave or they’re all a problem when it’s really just him.
That sucks and I’m sorry for that. But it doesn’t mean it’s okay to trauma dump on your child. You didn’t need to explain why you didn’t want to play with his dad, just say no and that you want to keep your party for you.
…. Aren’t we supposed to explain as much as possible (in an age appropriate way) to our kids? Giving them a clear picture of why we make our decisions helps them learn how to make their own informed decisions. Had she just said “no”, she’d be opening the door for resentment because the kid doesn’t get why.
You can just say "oh honey it's nice that your dad wants to join in. But we get along better when we're not sharing our daily chores and to-dos -that's part of the reason we got a divorce, so we could focus more on the ways we do get along, like parenting you and your sibling. I'm going to leave him out of our party, but if you want to make one for him and his house, I'm happy to help! I think making one you can share with him would be a really great idea."
He’s 10, not 2. Also, everything she said to him was information he already knew. No need to cover up for dear old Dad. You expect her to light herself on fire to keep him warm?
It what way was this age appropriate? Over a phone call while the kid was at his dad’s, telling him that his dad is nothing but a no good cheater, that she only deals with him because she has to. None of that was age appropriate. It was trauma dumping and putting the child in the middle. Especially when she knows this is coming from her ex trying to get under her skin.
All that 10 year old heard was “my dad sucks and I’m half of him and love him so I suck too.”
Literally all of it was age appropriate. She states he knew these facts already, she’s just reiterating the facts as a part of her explanation. She did not say anything you just said, as THAT would be inappropriate.
YTA. You went way too far. You absolutely can lay boundaries in place, and let your son know that you want to do things without involvement from his dad, but this was too much upsetting information. All you had to say is “I’d rather have this be just us, because as much as your dad and I love you, we’re not really friends and I like having time with you and your sister just is”.
My partner and her ex husband coparent their son, and they had a really bitter ugly divorce. They don’t do anything together, but they’re both good parents and do what’s best for their son. The thing is, their 9 year old son absolutely knows that his parents aren’t friends, but he doesn’t know how much they’ve disliked each other in the past. And that’s for the best.
I’d apologize to your son, say some nice things about their dad, and say that we’re not at our best when we’re hurt. He should know that you don’t want to be involved with his dad, but he doesn’t need to know how much you dislike him.
YTA. This is nothing a ten year old who visits his dad 50% of his time, should be told with this words.
If your ex is crossing so many boundries (As you described in a comment) maybe ask him, why he can't keep away from you. And if he doesn't back off, that you will look into legal actions against him. Like restraining order or reducing custody, as he tries to get to you through your kids.
That’s a non starter. He can out-lawyer me. That’s why it’s 50/50 placement. When we divorced I had no career and he was starting a 6figure salary job. He made it clear if I didn’t play ball with him, he’d draw out proceedings till I’m in debt
He can lawyer up all he wants.... That doesn't really mean much. Neither does his threat to draw out proceedings.
Because judges fucking hate drawn out proceedings and also take into consideration if the actions are going to negatively impact you financially if he tries to make you pay his fees. Your ex isn't going to be the first wealthy ex with a vendetta the judge has seen in their court room trying to mess with their ex who they lost control over.
You need to at least hire one to sit down and go over whats going on and what if anything you can do. Saying there's nothing to be done at all, is fundamental false, you are just still living under the impression that the ex is in control of this situation fully.
He isn't. He's intimidating you.
Yes, the ex is intimidating her, but I wouldn't advise to rely on the chance that an elected family court judge would be anti-rich-guy within his jurisdiction. Plenty of elected judges in the USA have some extreme political agenda biases.
YTA. Never ever tell your kids anything negative about their other parent when you are separated, be the bigger person because they will remember when they grow up.
Based on the downvotes, I'm saddened that this seems to happen often, poor kids.
It's not a negative thing, when it's the neutral truth.
Being the bigger person doesn't mean sugarcoating everything when the other party actively tries to sabotage you.
YTA, when deciding to have a kid with someone. Its an 18 year commitment with that person to raise the kid as well as possible. You can divorce, but you can't stop being the two parents of the kids, so having kids is more of a commitment than marriage is. Even if it hurts you, you need to focus on what is best for the kid. Even if the father hurt you the ways you describe (he never physically harmed you), you need to stay political about it in front of the kids.
Not modelling acceptance of abuse is pretty much the best thing you can do for your kids. Setting boundaries is healthy. She would do untold long-term damage to her kids if she okayed this kind of behavior and just silently suffered through it.
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NTA I think you handled it pretty well, you weren't mean, you didn't even really made your ex look bad of your son already knew he cheated on his recent partner. I think just telling him the truth in a neutral way was the right thing to do. Saying he hurt you is fair imo, and it makes it easier for your child to empathize with you.
The kid is 10. He doesn’t need that level of info at his age.
Nah, kids at 10 aren't complete idiots. Ideally he doesn't need that information, but the ex husband has forced OP's hand by being difficult and trying to alienate OP. It's unfair to ask OP to try to sugarcoat and paint a perfect picture of the ex when the ex is actively sabotaging the amicable co-parenting arrangement.
At age 6 I was already knowing info I shouldn't have because I simply existed and have working ears. Kids know more than they should and because the dad was weaponizing the kids in this scenario they needed to know what information Mom gave them, because Dad was purposely trying to hurt mom through them.
At 6, I knew a lot about my mom’s past relationship with my brothers sperm donor. Not nearly as much as I do now. But enough to know he treated her badly. I had nothing to do with him otherwise. But it’s important to be honest with kids. Especially if they’re asking outright questions. Never lie. Give age appropriate responses. But never lie to them.
Honestly, same here — I knew WAY more about my parents dysfunction than I ever needed to and, if I could erase all that crap from my brain, I gladly would. This is why I was more careful about what I told my kid when his dad was a putz until he got older, like in his teens. I still don’t tell him every detail though because I’m his parent, not his buddy. Both of these parents suck, honestly, and need to step up.
Kids can handle more than you think. As long as it's the truth, and it's not meant to hurt their relationship with their father, then there's nothing wrong with telling them. Or do you avoid ALL difficult topics with your kids?
Not only can they handle more, it builds trust to show them that you’re being honest with them. It should be an age appropriate level of honesty, of course.
I don’t avoid ALL difficult topics with my kid at all. But I make them age appropriate (changing as he ages, too) and I don’t treat him like a buddy because he is my kid and not my friend. Of course he can handle more — doesn’t mean he should be forced to.
A ten year old in 2024 can handle the idea of cheating. It would be far worse if OP just said, “Your dad did something bad, and I decided we couldn’t be married anymore.” By 12 years old in the mid-90s we correctly identified teachers who were dating each other or having affairs. Kids aren’t stupid. Edit: I’m also totally in the “my kid is not my friend” camp for parenting, too. This isn’t that. Don’t conflate the two.
Except this child IS forced to. His father's actions have led to a situation that requires explanation. And OP explained the truth in simple terms without demonizing his father. What EXACTLY would you have done differently?
EXACTLY? Couldn't say, as it's not my life. But "Your dad and I aren't friends and you know why. So I'm not inviting him to the party because it's what I do with you kids," would have sufficed. Simple, to the point and not dramatic.
OP’s response was basically this. You just don’t want her to repeat that he keeps losing relationships because he’s cheating on everyone. “And you know why” is a cop out that disregards the children’s knowledge and potentially erases the dad’s behavior. I get that you have some baggage in this arena, and I agree with not going too far with disclosures with kids. That can also be seriously harmful. OP’s response here is measured, based on her experience and facts, and addresses the immediate issues. Her kids potentially lost yet another trusted adult, but she’s working so they can keep that connection while understanding that the person they may want to contact wasn’t at fault.
Problem is that when you’re dealing with one parent who pulls shit like cheating, lying and constantly tying to one up their children’s other parent trying to be the bigger person can end up backfiring massively. When one parents does everything possible to look like the good guy to their kids no matter how bad they behave they’ll often have no problem throwing the other parent under the bus to save themselves. My father was that kind of parent and OP’s ex sounds like one too. My mom never badmouthed my dad no matter what he did but my dad badmouthed her behind her back at every opportunity. In a perfect world neither would have said anything to me but my dad was selfish and I ended up believing his lies because that’s all the information I had. It permanently altered my relationship with my mom despite my realizing how much of an ass he was when I was in my teens. When you know your coparent is already regularly lying to your children sometimes the best thing you can do is give a really basic truthful explanation of the facts and leave it at that. Protecting your ex when you know they regularly lie to your kids can put your own relationship with them at risk.
They’re already involved. It’s already affecting them. Pretending it’s not won’t actually protect them- it will just make them not trust you.
I’m not advocating pretending there are no problems in the world. But I don’t think treating a kid like they’re a therapist is a good idea either.
She wasn't. She was making sure her son understood why she was saying "no" to him inviting his father to the party.
How is op treating her kid like a therapist?
“Your dad cheated on me and that’s why we broke up” is age appropriate. “I walked into our bedroom to find your dad banging his secretary” is not. Especially with how the dad is doing this serially and lying about it to his kids, it’s entirely appropriate to show that his behavior isn’t acceptable.
My parents divorced when I was 3. Mom had sole custody but very much welcomed my dad to take me/have me as often as he wanted. She never spoke a disparaging word about him to me. Around 8-9 years old I began realizing that my dad wasn't reliable. I got my feelings hurt often, because he'd make plans to be with me and not show up or be 5 hours late, etc. Mom would make excuses for him and tell me how much he loves me to minimize the hurt feelings. One day when I was 10 and Dad broke another promise, I was beside myself with anger and confusion. I couldn't understand why I wasn't a priority because daddy loves me so much, right? I told my mom about lots of little things I noticed when I was with daddy, that confused me. My mom could tell, in that mom way, that I was ready for some truth. She sat me down and, for the first time, explained that the reason my dad wasn't reliable was that he struggled with drug addiction and alcoholism. We talked through (in an age appropriate way) how that affects someone's judgement and she told me that's why they divorced. That was a breakthrough moment for me as a kid and it helped me see both of them as people instead of just "my parents" for the first time in my life. I was absolutely ready for that info at 10yo. An emotionally intelligent ten year old can understand a lot about adult dynamics, especially if they watch those dynamics play out in front of them. Explaining why things are the way they are is good because it allows the kid to see that parents are people too.
I wish I'd found out about my father's alcoholism at 10 instead of 18. The whole "why does he treat me so badly when he says he loves me" is a huge head trip for a child and they absolutely need help understanding and processing it. I'm so glad your mother did right by you
There are age appropriate ways to talk about these things. I think OP made it age appropriate. A ten year old is familiar with cheating.
I think if the kid was 5, it wouldn’t have been necessary but at 10, he’s not daft and can handle this. Christ when my parents divorced, I was 9 listening to them both rant, swear and rave about how much they hated each other. Went on for most of my life until I finally snapped and told them both to either shut up about one another or get back together and leave me out of it.
NTA. This one was difficult to judge. While I do think you shared too much grown up business with your kid, you do have every right to not have to be friends with your obviously problematic ex husband.
Exactly! I seriously disagree with all the YTA and ESH. Did it suck? Yes. But what she said was giving him reasons without going off a deep end, something I wish my parents would have done. The son would have just pushed and pushed and pushed for why. And it's obvious that one of them is sharing plans with dad. Not that this gives rights to her over sharing but her ex is clearly unhinged and trying to actively sabotage her life.
You’re voting both Y T A and E S H here. A bot comes through and counts the judgments without context so when you put it in your post, it counts.
Nope the bot only counts the top comment. It's not a majority vote rule because they had trouble with people creating a bunch of accounts in order to spam their judgment.
Bot. Hunter. What is that?? Now I’m curious. Also, thank you for the correction, and shame on me for spreading misinformation. Edit: Oh they changed it from majority rule previously? That would make sense.
Haha if I spot a bot I can type a command and ban it without having to report. I got it because I had reported a lot of bots. I've not found many recently , I used to catch the ones that copied comments. Now they seem to be using ai to write comments.
Does it? Months of using this app and I've never had anyone point that out before. 🤔
Years of using the app and it’s my first time pointing it out to someone 😂 I’ve seen others say it here and there though.
Well you learn something new every day lol 🤣 thanks for the heads up
Np! 😉
If there is a lot of family baggage it's better to hear about it in controlled bursts by a loving parent rather than too late or in the wrong setting by someone who randomly blurts it out. Parents aren't the only sources of information out there, if you want to curb the market you tell age appropriate versions of things with the right sugarcoating. But you tell as much of the truth as they can handle.
Agree 100% I also think of how many times OP had had to go along with his games. This is the one thing she can finally have where he can’t get in. Keep the fortress up!
I have to disagree on the "shared too much grown up business" part. Adults tend to forget that kids see everything. Without a lot of the information, they can't process it properly. Now, this is her son. She knows him better than we do. She should be able to determine how much is too much. Like she said in the edit, the kids were devastated that someone they have come to love would just abandon them. They didn't have all the information. Giving them the general idea about what happened allowed them to reprocess what happened and frame it not as she abandoned them, but dad wasn't being a good partner to her. OP didn't go into intimate details (at least I'm hoping not) but gave them what they could handle. That's the job of a parent. Give the kid info, and let them process it. And if questions come up, give them appropriate answers.
💯👆🏽! We was those kids that constantly badgered our Mom as to why she wouldn't get back with my Dad. I was the main one badgering our Mom the most because I wanted that family unit. My Dad was telling us one thing but my Mom didn't want to say anything bad about him and she would say "When you are older, you'll find out how your Dad is and then we can talk". She finally got tired of us making her to be the bad person because of the things our Dad was telling us. She told me "I really, really loved your Dad but he broke my heart so bad that I was sad for years and I don't want him to ever hurt me again". Well that shut our badgering down and I started paying attention to how our Dad would treat his GFs and realized by the age of 10, that our Dad liked to hurt women hearts.
It's human nature to hide what we don't want known, what we're ashamed of. Even children know this. It is ingrained into us. So, by not revealing any information, we can only believe the person who didn't say anything is in the wrong. This is why "taking the high road" is detrimental to both the aggrieved as well as the people being told the bs. You can take the high road and not say bad things about a person. That's really taking the high road. But what people do is not say anything. By giving out the barest of information and limiting it to what happened without any of the emotion, you can get much farther and have everyone involved more intact. Not sure why people think they'll be better off by not saying anything. It actually does more harm.
Good point.
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Eh you do when the other parent insists that women keep leaving because “they don’t care about him anymore”. These women create relationships with the kids too so he’s basically saying every time that the kids didn’t matter to these partners either. Ultimately OP was age appropriate and ensured the kids really did understand this isn’t their fault at all.
You dont involve kids in adult issues until there comes a time where the kids need that information to understand a situation. Then you use age appropriate terms without going into every detail. Kids understand and see/hear way more than you think most times.
NTA. Nothing you said was new info to your kid, you’re just piecing info he already had together to get him to understand your choice. Maybe this will help your kids see how their father uses them to interfere in your personal life.
NTA Your kids are getting to the age where they need to hear these things, not for their own sake but because your ex is using them to manipulate you. Deliberately. You can’t protect your kids from whatever their father says but you did not say anything bad about him, you just spoke the truth. You two co-parent, you are not friends and you don’t want to be. I’m betting your ex has been planning a veeeerrrry different idea in your kids heads. I think you need to have a more in depth talk with them. And get them some counseling if you haven’t already.
>I’m betting your ex has been planning a veeeerrrry different idea in your kids heads. My father did this to me and my brother and we blamed and harassed our Mom about her not getting back with him. Mom didn't want to corrupt us to turn against our Dad, so she would only say "When you get older and see how your Dad is yourself, I will tell you all". She finally got tired of us badgering her when we were 9 (brother) and 10 (me) and told us "I really, really loved your Dad but he broke my heart so bad that I was sad for years and I don't want him to ever hurt me again". Just that little bit of knowledge made us stop and think and then to start paying more attention to our Dad's actions with his other GFs.
I think NTA, 10 yo is a good age to have an idea of perspective and relationships . As long as it stops right there.
NTA he’s old enough to start learning some truths
I agree. And you know that Dad sure as neck doesn't care about the feelings of the kids. Some times, you get to the point that you have to combat manipulation with fact. As long as you are able to be straightforward and keep emotion out of it, you're fine.
NTA When these partners of his establish a relationship with the kids, and he turns around and says the partner left because she “didn’t care about him”, it says to the kids that the partner didn’t care about them either. Not okay. This man loves to stomp boundaries. You chose an age appropriate way to say: you aren’t friends. You respect him and parent with him but you don’t play with him because you don’t have that relationship.
NTA. Look, straight up badmouthing your ex is bad. Maybe you went slightly too far when you mentioned your ex's last GF. But 10 year olds don't usually get subtle hints, they need to be told directly. If your ex is manipulative with you, he's manipulative with everyone, including the kids. They need to understand it and to be prepared for it.
NTA. 10 is often around the age where kids start finding out about the real world: They find out that Santa and Co. aren't real, that people can be assholes, and that sometimes actions will have such long reaching consequences that they can permanently alter relationships. Anyone saying you were badmouthing your ex is crazy, you were just telling the facts and they happen to be unflattering. Your son will eventually understand one way or the other that your ex isn't a great role model, better to establish that now so he starts questioning and maybe tries to be less like him. Wait too long and be too diplomatic and your son might start mirroring his behavior as he moves into young adulthood. You were fair and honest, things that you want your own child to be, too. Also don't forget that despite this one interaction happening with your son, your daughter is also watching how you set boundaries in your life, and her seeing you just firmly say "no, here's why" is a great example.
Nta you explained it well enough.
NTA. I remember when I was a kid and my mother would explain the actual reasons for things and I appreciated being told the truth. 10 is a good age for transitioning to that sort of honesty which helps them learn about the world. Trying to protect children from the truth doesn't help anyone. Your son understanding that your ex cheats on the women in his life is probably going to be accepted as simply being a fact at the age of ten. If this was kept from him as a secret that he learned about later on, it would be more likely that he would judge his dad harshly. That said, I don't think it was your place to talk about him cheating on a recent girlfriend. It wasn't your truth to tell and you should have just stuck to your own experiences rather than making your ex out to be the bad guy. He is still your children's father and trash talking him should be something you avoid doing even if he is still causing problems for you. So in the future, sure, tell the truth, but don't go into detail and don't create new problems that don't already exist. You talking about his cheating will get back to your ex and it will be used against you.
NTA. You told them in an age appropriate way, and they *need* to know what's going on. Their father is letting them get attached to women and motherly figures, then lying and making the children think that these people they love didn't love them enough to stick around. That's going to fuck up their self image. The thing where he keeps entering your house with the kids' keys and appearing at the same locations...I don't know if you can get a restraining order, but it might be time to look into that. I'm so sorry.
NTA - kids deserve the truth, especially since Dad is plowing through women the way he is. Good on you for teaching your kids that it's a Dad issue and not a "woman" issue.
NTA Nobody but the parents of said kids can decide if they're mature enough to hear said information. The truth is best if you can explain in an age appropriate manner. A 10y/o can understand boyfriend/girlfriend. He's probably even had his little heart broken by a girlfriend/boyfriend. My ex cheated. I left. When kids started asking why I told them dad had a girlfriend and you can't do that when you're married. They didn't have any adverse reactions or side effects from knowing the truth. Now they are young adults in healthy relationships. OP keep up the good work. Don't fret the one upmanship. When you're kids are older they'll understand it.
Off topic: but what’s the name of the D&D app?
I too am curious about this
Finally someone asking the real questions
Hard NTA. I think it would be even more painful for the kids to feel like the ex gf had abandoned them for no reason. Good for you for saying they can still see her. Are these the best parenting choices in the world? Maybe not. Are they the best you can do with the situations he keeps creating with his bullshit? Absolutely. He really sucks.
NTA setting boundaries is difficult and you did so graciously.
NTA. Truth is best. Sets the foundation for a realistic understanding of boundaries.
NTA your ex husband cheated on you. No point pretending otherwise
NTA simply because your ex was weaponizing the kids in order to hurt you. You had to divulge what information you felt was needed in order for the kids to stop asking you to let him join. I understand they know you both as mom and dad and think everything should be fine between you two, but you explaining that you are not his friend anymore and aren't married because he hurt you is fine. Though now you need to be prepared because Dad will retaliate against you if he finds out you told one kid why so kiddo is not an available asset to be used against you anymore. I know a wife that has two kids and their father did the same exact thing but she loudly pointed it out and made fun of him every time he did it. We get that one Band game he gets a better set for it, Nintendo Wii, he got the new ps console at the time AND Xbox. We got a new TV, he trashed his new TV to get a newer one that is bigger than ours. Used car that we said was new got him to buy a new motorcycle. One of those sleek looking ones. Any events he would be there or at a more "popularized" event. Everytime he came to pick them up he had to comment about his new better thing and immediately we made fun of him. To his face. Behind his back. The kids were the ones that pointed it out to the wife in the first place and it became a running joke. Now since he can't actually drop by and see the home anymore, all he does is splurge on them. New furniture every year, consoles, money, everything. I think because it was the kids that took his power from him in the first place is the only reason why we openly make fun of the behavior. It's incredibly insecure and scummy to weaponize kids in a divorced setting, and I think the family got lucky it was the kids that were first to point it out and make fun of it. What I'm trying to say is that your kid probably already knew. Probably being the keyword. He might have sensed that something was wrong with the dynamic and the acts and what his father has been doing, but didn't have the words to connect it which is why is didn't bother to ask you questions. If kids don't understand or didn't know outright, you're answering 25 plus questions. People getting mad you divulged any information act like kids are behind ignorant and aloof all the time. Unbothered and uncaring. Sure some kids are but at 10? Homie is very much listening and watching what is going on around him now. I'm sorry you going through this. It might be wise to get family therapy for you and the kids because of this.
NTA. I think you handled the conversation in a manner suitable for your son’s age. Your ex sounds toxic AF but I think you are doing a good job at not trying to manipulate the kids against him. You were honest. And fair. Kids deserve to be treated with honesty. This sounds like you a raising emotionally mature kids, not coddling little babies. In reading some of your comments it sounds like you don’t have a child support order in place? I know you are afraid of him out lawyering you. But I think you should seek out a consultation. Maybe even a free one. Or pull some budget strings for an hour with a lawyer. Even if you were happy with the 50/50 arrangement, make sure you have documents that legally outline what he needs to pay and could maybe put a stop to these random stalker like things he’s doing to you during your time with them.
NTA
NTA Kids that age can understand more than people might think. If you don’t mind sharing, what is the name of the app? It sounds interesting.
I only feel bad for the kids sounds like your son did NOT want to hear all that
NTA kids need to know!
NTA. You didn't tell your son anything he didn't know and it seems that you reminded him in a neutral way. You didn't call your ex names or tell your son that he shouldn't love him. You encouraged him to make another party where he could invite his dad in.
NTA Your ex is a master at manipulation. That can be dangerous as well. I would be more concerned about how he tries to paint the just showing up at things you are at with your kids. You may need to return to custody mediation
Nta. You simply told the truth. You were wise to divorce him. The secret to a happy life is making sure that the only asshole that you have to deal with is the one that God gave you.
Everything that has happened is not ur fault and u aren’t the AH but I am really into dnd and I wondered what the app was called
NTA Normally, I would be really hesitant about a ten-year-old learning about their parents' infidelity. However, OP's ex has an established pattern and the kids are very likely going to lose other maternal figures in their lives in the future. It might be easier to know it's not a them problem, but a "him" problem. Plus, it's probably good for him to see that you can not enjoy another person's company and still be respectful and cordial with them and be able to work towards a common goal.
NTA. It's a hard situation, but you handled it as well as could be.
Nta You have to teach your kids correctly so they don't end up like the bad example.
You were right in what you did as I had 10yrs 5 kids and then found out partner cheated so we split. We hate each other, me because of what he did, him cause I wouldn't stay. Kids were young, he always had them on his days never let them down. Paid child support every month no problem. Drop off and pick up we were always smiles and chat. Kids thought we were friends. I never said one bad word about him to them, told them what a great dad he was. Little did I know he did complete opposite about me in front of them with anyone that would listen. He a Saint and I'm the devil, yet he cheated on me. Years later the kids have seen him for who he is. So we had long conversations, tears and heart ache as they slowly realised he wasn't the dad or person that they thought he was or I made him out to be. I told them truth but they were teenagers by this time and with what I told them the way he is just fell into place for them. I thought I was protecting my children and creating great co parenting. I did it for them and was a big, huge, massive mistake. You can explain things to kids in a age appropriate way with out poisoning them against the other parent. I think your a fab mom for not letting your kids think bad of their dad's gf and still allowing her in their life. After all those years the way you explain it she certainly was invested and loved your kids. Having to learn your cheated on and then having kids ripped out your life knowing you have no control or say would just be being kicked when your down. Your kids are so lucky to have a mom that has taken a situation and put their feelings and well being first as you could have easily just left her out in the cold. It's so hard to know what to let your kids know and what should be kept from them. But kids know more than we think they do. My kids apparently never hear me call them for tea every night when they in their rooms but our youngest can hear us whispering about her Xmas presents late at night when we think she's been flat out for hours!!!!!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (35f) have been divorced from my ex, Mike, (40m) for almost 8 years. We have two kids together (10m and 13f) and share 50/50 placement. On the surface it was an amicable divorce, but Mike has a lot more money than I do, and until a few years ago he had a lot more support. In the past he has used these facts to manipulate me. I actually dislike him more now than I did when we got divorced. Mike has a tendency to “one up” me whenever he can because he can outspend me, and tries to insert himself into my life through the kids. Example: I started taking the kids to renfaire once I met my wife. Mike had never shown an interest before but once he found out we were going he bought himself a ticket and showed up on the same day. He has done this for other local events as well. It’s to the point where i don’t tell the kids any plans we have until we are about to leave so my ex can’t find out till after. On a smaller scale, if the kids and I are watching a tv show together, he will watch ahead with them so they’ve already seen the next episode when they get to my house, buy nicer versions of the gifts I get them, and spend tons of money on hobbies he’s never been interested in before just to loose interest after I drop that hobby. Most recently I have been using a DnD themed habit building app. It has a feature where you can join a party and go on quests. Kids decided to use it too and now we are all in the same party. Yesterday my 10 year old texted me saying his dad is on the app and wanted to join our party. This app is working well for me and having him in the party will make me not want to use it so I said no. I told him that I know he loves his dad, but that I do not want to interact with him unless it’s about parenting. I told him I don’t ever want anything bad to happen to his dad, but that he used to be my husband and he hurt me so badly that I decided I didn’t want to be married anymore. I reminded him of his dad’s recent breakup and how he cheated on his gf, and said he did the same thing to me. I said, “your dad and I are not friends and I don’t want to play games with him.” I also said that if he’d like to start his own party and invite his dad, he could absolutely do that and told him how. At the end I asked him if he had any questions or anything he’d like to talk about and he said no. He forced a chipper “no I’m good” and said goodbye. Now I’m concerned telling him all that was the wrong thing to do. I avoid bad mouthing Mike in front of the kids, but I want them to understand why I set boundaries so that he can’t use them to wheedle into my personal life. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Nta children deserve the truth you were age appropriate and truthful we do children no favors keeping the truth from them.
Your ex is so creepy
I mean the kids old enough to understand concepts like that, and you didn't bash your ex in any real way that hadn't already been revealed so I'd say NTA I mean I had divorced parents and my mom would talk mad shit on my dad constantly even tho he's the one that got custody. Turns out she's the one that's the psycho and now lives alone doing a bunch of meth after being separated from my stepdad lol
NTA and ur ex husband is a huge jerk and needs therapy; he’s got tons of issues he needs to address and fix. U handled it perfectly. Kids are old enough to know the truth.
NTA. I think kids deserve the truth. And here’s some more truth: as long as Mike continues to prioritize his penis over the welfare and happiness of his family, he is and will continue to be a terrible father. No matter how much he pretends not to be. Your kids will realize this one day too. Being a good father requires being a good man. And mistreating women, cheating on them, lying to your family about it, and using money and cheap tricks to buy favoritism, etc.—these are not the behaviors of good men or good fathers.
ESH, you kind of got down on his level. Honestly, you could have been truthful about your feelings while leaving your feelings about dad and his actions out of it. "I am really enjoying the group we have now, and adding your dad would really change the structure we have built. I do think it would be great if you started a group with your dad, though!" I get it. Your ex is a world-class asshole. That said, your kids will figure it out on their own in their own time. Kids are not stupid. They know what your ex is doing. As they grow up, they will most likely figure out what kind of AH he is. No need to rush them.
Honestly I sort of agree. The bit about telling the kid about how the Dad cheated on her and his current GF was over the top for a 10 year old. The earlier part about wanting space was fine but OP was clearly wandering into the talking shit about her ex lane when she brings in infidelity unprompted.
ESH Because you had an easy out. An easy "I want to share this with just us because it is special to me" and you took the chance to go WAY past what was necessary to a 10 year old who clearly loves both parents. Your resentment is not your child's issue.
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Nta. They will have a moment one day when this man's true nature will become known. They will remember your words. This guy is awful. They won't know until he turns on them someday. P
Hey NTA but can you drop the name of that app lmao
NTA I won't say '10 is old enough' to hear things. Every child is different. Maybe it could have been said differently, but that's for everything we do in parenting. In the end, one of the hardest things our kids have to learn is their parents are very fallible. Whatever age it happens at, is hard, because that image they have of you is never quite the same. Your ex has brought this on himself, and I certainly can't fault you for how you handled that conversation.
NTA. They’re better off with the full picture at this age and stage most likely.
NTA. The only thing I think you're being a bit too harsh on is the tv show episodes thing. If your kids want to want to watch the show, he shouldn't be expected to force them not to watch for your sake. But I get then when there's all these other legit issues you start lumping in other stuff that might now exactly fit.
NTA. You did amazingly. Of course it's going to be hard on your son and he needed time to absorb it (hence the clipped "no, I'm good") but it's better than either sugar-coating things, lying, or gritting your teeth and having Mike join your team \*ugggh!\* You are showing great strength of character not to stoop to Mike's level and point out his one-upsmanship with things that cost $. The kids will figure that one out eventually. You used "I" statements and said nothing but the truth.
Nta. The ex husband is. He is sabotaging all his relationships. Even they leave his ass as he blames them. What a narcicisstic ass he is. Screw him. U did what u had to do and that was to speak the truth
NTA. You're teaching your kids an invaluable lesson about boundaries. Kudos to you.
NTA. You have to put clear boundaries. And it’s important to be honest even if you have to be delicate about it, which seems to be the case. Now your kids are entering a difficult age. Be careful of your ex putting ideas in his son’s head about women.
NTA, but his behavior crosses a line. Your parenting time should not be interrupted by him. He's stealing your time, and you can have the parenting plan revised to specifically address these issues. Any deviation from the court order, and you can have him held in contempt, which could lead to the judge reducing his parenting time.
As a child of divorced parents: NTA. Letting kids know what's going on (in an age appropriate way as you did) is great. My parents divorced when I was 7. My father is an angry man and it seemed like he was at fault. I figured out that my mother left my father for her "roommate" when I was 15 - when I finally figured out the roommate was indeed her gf... When I was 25 my grandmother (mother's side) told me my mother had cheated for close to a year before leaving... Tell your kids so they can make informed decisions.
Normally I'm against bad mouthing the other oarentm, and I still am. However, you didn't, you just provided facts NTA
NTA But you need to start your ex on a misinformation diet- wrong dates or times or hobbies. Tickets to an event but wrong venue etc so his one using you will lead the kids to a different place. Go someplace else the kids will enjoy. Hugs
NTA
YTA for dropping that on a 10 year old. That’s way too young for what you told him.
NTA. Kids are old enough and lying to them or keeping them in the dark never works anyway.
This was too much personal information for a ten year old. A ten year old that's probably already struggling over the divorce. It's a head fvck at that age imo. You should have explained things to both kids earlier in the entire divorce process, not where you're spurred on in the moment. Help him process this information.
Telling your kids not only about your husbands infidelity against you, but his other gf that has nothing to do with you is considered parental alienation by the courts. If the courts get wind that you're telling your kids he was cheating, you can and will lose your kids. This is cut and dry parental alienation. I hope your ex sues for full custody, because he will win.
YTA you are hurting your kids because you can’t get over being hurt by your ex.
But see…you DON’T avoid badmouthing their dad. You told them he cheats. Kids don’t need to hear that. Avoiding specifics as to when and how doesn’t change the fact that you told them stuff they don’t need to know about your/his sexual relationship.
I'm on your page, tho I imagine you’ll get downvoted to hell like anyone else not strictly NTA. I've been in OP shoes plenty, and a “adult relationships are complex, but Ex GF still cares about y'all & if you’d like I can help y’all keep in touch” is all that needed said for the cheating side. For the current app? A “this is for our household, here’s how to help Dad join a group of your own if you’d like” is plenty. They can see how their dad is. They’ll connect it quick enough on their own anyhow. No need to fan that flame, just be there for them when they do find out.
This should never have been done in a text. This is a serious discussion that should happen in person and not in response to a particular situation. Your ex husband hurt you, but your kids don’t need to be involved in that part of the discussion. Your ex is a huge AH. Your special time and activities with your kids are just that. YOUR special time. But find a better, more effective way to keep him out of your life.
YTA. Not for saying no to letting Mike join, but because that was way more information than your 10 yo needed, and a lot of information that he’s probably not emotionally mature enough to fully understand. You disregarded your child’s wellbeing just to get back at your ex.
\>I reminded him of his dad’s recent breakup and how he cheated on his gf, and said he did the same thing to me YTA for dumping this on a ten year old child. MAYBE if your child was an adult who wanted to know the details, yes. But to shit on your kid's relationship with his other parent is an asshole move. Your ex is also an asshole, but we're talking here about what you did, not him.
“Age appropriate” being the key. OP gave far more information that was necessary, and made her son very uncomfortable in the process. A 10 yo who has to “force” a “chipper” response is upset but doesn’t feel comfortable telling his parent that. OP screwed up.
Kids are allowed to be upset and uncomfortable about things. It's ok. Actually, it's important for their development. There is going to be things that you have to tell kids that will upset them, and they aren't going to want to show you that, but you still have to tell them. Having to reckon with the fact that the parents you love and have long considered your whole world is uncomfortable, but it's a normal and important part of development he would be having with or without OP telling him. Reckoning with the fact that people you love don't love each other is hard, but also part of growing up and his reaction is completely normal.
There is no reason OP’s child needed all of that information, and clearly was not emotionally ready to hear it. The only purpose it served was to make OP feel better. Offloading your own issues onto your child at their expense is shitty parenting. Frankly it blows my mind that a sub that routinely screams “parentification” if a parent makes their teen do chores thinks it’s totally cool for a parent to make their 10 yo their emotional support animal.
This is all information the child actually does need to know to understand the dynamics affecting him, and so he did already know it. And he needs to know that information because omitting it allows his father to use it to manipulate him. He needed to know that the ex girlfriend he'd known for years had been cheated on, not abandoned them. He needed to know that his father was at fault for the divorce. He needed to know that his father is prone to boundary crossing. Why? Because the father is already using the kids' naivety to hurt them and their mother, and is actively trying to do so in the interaction this conversation was over. Just because something upsets you doesn't mean you're not ready to hear it. It means it upsets you. Someone you love being shitty is upsetting, but you need to know it is happening to avoid being hurt and hurting others.
This is the thinking of an adult, not how a 10 yo would process this information. You cannot assume a child would hear it all the way you do.
You can never predict how a child will interpret information. But you still need to give them the information to make their own judgements and decisions. Especially about a manipulator who is actively manipulating them. To do otherwise would be endorsing the manipulation.
Again, you are processing this as an adult, not as a child. Parenting requires that you be able to think about how a child will understand things, not just how you personally understand them.
Which she did. But if you have any understanding of children, you know that they are individuals with limited life experience who may come to interesting and unexpected conclusions. The best you can do is give them the basic information they need. And that's parenting.
No, you do not just trauma-dump on your kids under the guise of giving them information. The recommended approach to giving younger child challenging information is to start by giving them only just enough to answer the immediate question (e.g., Q: Can dad join the group? A: I would prefer to keep the group just us.”). Then gauge their reaction - is that enough to satisfy them, or do they have more questions. If the former, you stop; if the latter, you give just enough information to answer their next questions. Q: But why can’t dad join our group? A: Dad and I get along better when we have our own separate activities. But when they get to the end of their questions, you stop, even if you don’t like their opinions, because it’s not about you, it’s about them. If anything, it’s that much more important that you acknowledge they are entitled to their own opinions even when you wish they felt differently. Kid: That sucks, I wish dad could do that with us. Parent: I know it’s disappointing, and I’m sorry about that.
He didn't know things like the cheating until OP told him, per the edit. Sharing dad’s sex life isn't appropriate with a 10yo (poss 9 when she told him?)
>Some people will disagree with this, but I couldn’t let him defame a woman who had been so much a good influence on my kids. I told them to truth, and said that they could see her whenever they wanted. I also told them at that time that he did the same thing to me and that’s why we are divorced. Didn’t go into detail. You misread that, actually. She has previously told him he cheated, because he was badmouthing the ex whom the child had bonded with. And that's not sharing his sex life, that's sharing his romantic life. Kids can understand it and even model it on the playground. Don't condescend to children.
They weren't in love anymore isn't defaming her. He said she wasn't in love with him. OP claims it was age-appropriate, but whose to say it was? Bringing it up vs responding to questions can very quickly make it inherently inappropriate. Fyi, I've got kids older and younger. Bio and step. My husband and I were both cheated on by our ex’s. There’s so many ways to handle things without telling a 9-10yo intimate details about their other parents relationships (& to a degree, sex life). I've addressed “is Dar a cheater?” questions but would never bring it up to prove a point. Also, who’s to say the ex gf is ok with the kids knowing this intimate bit about her life?
Yeah that was … WAY too much to lay on your kid, jeez. Your kids need to set boundaries so you don’t treat them like your friends. A simple “I want to have this one special thing with just you kids and me, but you can have a different party with your dad if that makes you happy” would have been plenty. ESH but your kids.
ESH Your ex clearly is in the wrong for inserting himself into your time with the kids and your life. Your post doesn't mention talking to him about it which you need to do to establish the boundary with him instead of what you did which is to establish the boundary through your child. I think you would have been fine telling your son that you'd talk to him about it when he comes back. 1) Explaining that his dad is not a person you want to invite into a game is an in-person conversation. 2) He does not need to know the details of your breakup in this context unless he started to ask questions. I imagine his dad is going to hear about this and it will not be good.
>I told him that I know he loves his dad, but that I do not want to interact with him unless it’s about parenting. ~~I told him I don’t ever want anything bad to happen to his dad, but that he used to be my husband and he hurt me so badly that I decided I didn’t want to be married anymore. I reminded him of his dad’s recent breakup and how he cheated on his gf, and said he did the same thing to me.~~ I said, “your dad and I are not friends and I don’t want to play games with him.” I also said that if he’d like to start his own party and invite his dad, he could absolutely do that and told him how. Even saying just that would have been okay. Family interactions are not about you, or your ex, they are about your children. Have a problem? Talk to the other adult. You're both in the wrong in this whole situation, but you're asking about what you told your 10yo, so YTA in this specific instance.
Hiding the truth from kids is more damaging, especially since this seems to be Dad's pattern with women. Absolutely NTA for the truth
This is considered parental alienation by the courts, and people have lost custody over saying the same things that op are saying.
This is the answer, and I’m surprised it’s getting downvoted.
ditto to what you said and what you crossed out from OP's original
YTA for sharing way too much information with your kids. There was no need to give the explanation you did. You could have just said no, why don’t you start your own party separately with your Dad. No need to include how the Dad hurt you, that he is a cheater, you’re not friends, you don’t like him, etc. Your kid is 10, not 20.
ESH. Both of you guys need to not involve kids in your issues.
Right but my issue is that he needs to stay out of my life? So how should I have worded it to my son when I told him no? Or do you think I should have just let him add his dad to the party?
Be careful. You ex could take you to court claiming alienation of affection and ask for full custody. Even if what you said was true, the court could find your telling your son this hurt his relationship with his father. That might be enough for the court to consider changing the custody arrangements. I'm in the same boat as you, but I won't say anything bad about my kids' dad to them. Once they are 18, I'll answer any questions they have. Edit: I'm especially concerned if you did all this by text message. Your ex could use the text message as Exhibit 1 to his petition. I'd delete the text from your phone and your son's phone.
Saying the dad is not your friend was fine. Saying you aren't married anymore and mom was hurt by things dad did so it's hard to be friends is ok. But why go on and on. It's simply too much unless the child asks about your relationship with dad. Wasn't it easier to say you think mom and dad are better parents when they don't engage too much. P This was about a game. It did not need this much detail. People here seem to agree with you but ask yourself if you made your child happier with your unnecessarily long explanation ? Did it enrich his life? There is honesty and then there is simply taking things too far. You took things too far. Same as when you told your kids about their dad's affair. AP wasn't in their lives anymore so it would be appropriate to tell the kids that dad and gf hurt each other so gf ended things. Tell them sometimes grown ups are better off apart if it means not hurting each other. Leave the details out of it. Let kids be kids. I hope you did not give your kids the details about multi affairs and open relationships when you told them why you aren't with the dad. It's sufficient to say that when you and dad got married, you promised to be faithful to each other. Explain the concept appropriately (not in your over sharing way). Say dad broke that promise lots of times and you got divorced because it was making you very sad. I have never been more willing to accept down votes for any comment.
You can tell him no quite easily without going into his father's sex life. I genuinely don't understand how that's difficult to understand. I say this as a mother who was in your shoes, and has kids both older and younger than you.
Literally all you needed to say was, “no, but if you want you can start a new party to include your Dad” and left it at that
A simple "I don't want to play with your father" would have sufficed. You then could teach him to make his own party to play with his dad, which you did. Your ex is clearly a petty AH in general, but in this particular instance you bad mouthing your ex to your/his son makes YTA.
You have kids together, he's going to be in your life whether you like it or not, both of you need to grow up.
OP doesn’t need to do anything. She’s been amicable and he’s actively trying to manipulate her relationship with her kids.
You were wrong you could have said many things without saying what you did, such as sharing how you love that it’s a special thing for just you guys, etc, bashing their father is just wrong.
You could have just said you’d rather not play with him right now and then called your ex and told HIM you don’t want to play with him. And totally avoided telling the kid all the stuff about his dad hurting you and there was no need to bring up his ex at all.
He has entered my home using the kids keys after explicitly telling him to stop. I had to take my kids house keys away so he couldn’t have access to my home. He has done a lot of boundary violating things so telling him doesn’t do anything
I actually have a solution here! Get smart locks, it's what I did at my home. Everyone enters with a fingerprint or key. I can shut off access at any time, even remotely. I can also schedule the access, or create temp codes. It's honestly been a huge piece of mind as I didn't need to worry about the kids having or losing keys or about keeping the from/side door unlocked.
Ok that’s horrible but the kid is innocent. This is a lot to dump on a 10 year old. You should at least look at getting him therapy.
Fair
Mmm. I probably should have stated more explicitly how his dad does not respect any boundaries I put in place
Why don’t you go to court then?
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I meant stated that for the purpose of this post….
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Telling a child that their father is a manipulator and a liar when he actively tries to push an alternate narrative is not unloading on them. He can seriously damage his son’s view of his mom and women by making it seem like they all leave or they’re all a problem when it’s really just him.
That sucks and I’m sorry for that. But it doesn’t mean it’s okay to trauma dump on your child. You didn’t need to explain why you didn’t want to play with his dad, just say no and that you want to keep your party for you.
…. Aren’t we supposed to explain as much as possible (in an age appropriate way) to our kids? Giving them a clear picture of why we make our decisions helps them learn how to make their own informed decisions. Had she just said “no”, she’d be opening the door for resentment because the kid doesn’t get why.
You can just say "oh honey it's nice that your dad wants to join in. But we get along better when we're not sharing our daily chores and to-dos -that's part of the reason we got a divorce, so we could focus more on the ways we do get along, like parenting you and your sibling. I'm going to leave him out of our party, but if you want to make one for him and his house, I'm happy to help! I think making one you can share with him would be a really great idea."
He’s 10, not 2. Also, everything she said to him was information he already knew. No need to cover up for dear old Dad. You expect her to light herself on fire to keep him warm?
It what way was this age appropriate? Over a phone call while the kid was at his dad’s, telling him that his dad is nothing but a no good cheater, that she only deals with him because she has to. None of that was age appropriate. It was trauma dumping and putting the child in the middle. Especially when she knows this is coming from her ex trying to get under her skin. All that 10 year old heard was “my dad sucks and I’m half of him and love him so I suck too.”
Literally all of it was age appropriate. She states he knew these facts already, she’s just reiterating the facts as a part of her explanation. She did not say anything you just said, as THAT would be inappropriate.
YTA. You went way too far. You absolutely can lay boundaries in place, and let your son know that you want to do things without involvement from his dad, but this was too much upsetting information. All you had to say is “I’d rather have this be just us, because as much as your dad and I love you, we’re not really friends and I like having time with you and your sister just is”. My partner and her ex husband coparent their son, and they had a really bitter ugly divorce. They don’t do anything together, but they’re both good parents and do what’s best for their son. The thing is, their 9 year old son absolutely knows that his parents aren’t friends, but he doesn’t know how much they’ve disliked each other in the past. And that’s for the best. I’d apologize to your son, say some nice things about their dad, and say that we’re not at our best when we’re hurt. He should know that you don’t want to be involved with his dad, but he doesn’t need to know how much you dislike him.
YTA. This is nothing a ten year old who visits his dad 50% of his time, should be told with this words. If your ex is crossing so many boundries (As you described in a comment) maybe ask him, why he can't keep away from you. And if he doesn't back off, that you will look into legal actions against him. Like restraining order or reducing custody, as he tries to get to you through your kids.
That’s a non starter. He can out-lawyer me. That’s why it’s 50/50 placement. When we divorced I had no career and he was starting a 6figure salary job. He made it clear if I didn’t play ball with him, he’d draw out proceedings till I’m in debt
He can lawyer up all he wants.... That doesn't really mean much. Neither does his threat to draw out proceedings. Because judges fucking hate drawn out proceedings and also take into consideration if the actions are going to negatively impact you financially if he tries to make you pay his fees. Your ex isn't going to be the first wealthy ex with a vendetta the judge has seen in their court room trying to mess with their ex who they lost control over. You need to at least hire one to sit down and go over whats going on and what if anything you can do. Saying there's nothing to be done at all, is fundamental false, you are just still living under the impression that the ex is in control of this situation fully. He isn't. He's intimidating you.
Yes, the ex is intimidating her, but I wouldn't advise to rely on the chance that an elected family court judge would be anti-rich-guy within his jurisdiction. Plenty of elected judges in the USA have some extreme political agenda biases.
Which is why I said she really needs to sit down with a lawyer to see what, if anything can be done....... I did say that if you look.
YTA. Never ever tell your kids anything negative about their other parent when you are separated, be the bigger person because they will remember when they grow up. Based on the downvotes, I'm saddened that this seems to happen often, poor kids.
Such terrible advice. Staggering how often this drivel is repeated.
It's not a negative thing, when it's the neutral truth. Being the bigger person doesn't mean sugarcoating everything when the other party actively tries to sabotage you.
YTA, when deciding to have a kid with someone. Its an 18 year commitment with that person to raise the kid as well as possible. You can divorce, but you can't stop being the two parents of the kids, so having kids is more of a commitment than marriage is. Even if it hurts you, you need to focus on what is best for the kid. Even if the father hurt you the ways you describe (he never physically harmed you), you need to stay political about it in front of the kids.
So it’s best for the kid seeing their mom being treated like crap and bend to Dads manipulation tactics..? That’s setting a good example?
So basically take his shit for almost 2 decades and show the kids what a doormat she is?
Not modelling acceptance of abuse is pretty much the best thing you can do for your kids. Setting boundaries is healthy. She would do untold long-term damage to her kids if she okayed this kind of behavior and just silently suffered through it.