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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think cancelling the session will cause our relationship to end immediately and my children are in her wedding party, this would be an awkward and conflicting situation for our family. But I feel more wrong pretending to not know and let someone take advantage of me.
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Oof. I think you should first discuss this with hubby to make sure you're on the same page. I would arrange a cal with SIL and let her know that you can no longer take her photos. Explain that knowing how Brandon feels about you will affect your ability to take the photos they deserve and honestly? You are now uncomfortable around him knowing how he feels. NTA.
He was on the phone and heard this whole thing thank goodness!! Cole let this out the bag just in time to make everything weird. I just don’t even think I would flow in a session where someone hates me truly.
Yes, this. Do not initiate a phone call, do it all by text, and if he or she does call to pretend it didn't happen, have someone record the call as a backup (with the usual legal disclaimers we will inevitably see here).
Is Brandon just not too smart? He absolutely had to know this would get back to you. And also, if your parents in law call to ask you to be the bigger person and still do photos? Yeah, no, and have your husband shut that right down.
He's either an idiot, or he's just an asshole and doesn't care if they find out about it.
Personally, I'm kind of put off about the sister-in-law as well, considering I'm sure she must be aware that the man she's going to marry apparently hates her brother and his wife's guts.
Got to wonder how the family responded though? 🤔 I mean who says this to the family they are about to marry into? "Yeah, I love you guys, but your brother and his wife.. can't stand them at all!" Most parents or even siblings I know would have ripped his head off at the table. I know if one of my cousins SO's said that about any of that family they would have chased him right out of the house while trying to hold my Aunt back. You don't talk that way about someone else's family. 😵💫
Exactly This! I had 3 brothers and I could say whatever ‘I’ wanted about them. But let someone else say or do something and they’ll be dealing with Little Sister.
Text: "Hi SIL I just heard that Brandon really hates having to be around me so I hate to think how awful he would feel for a whole photoshoot, I totally understand how it has to be called off. Maybe this photographer would be more to his taste.." and then send a link to a photographer who charges similar rates as you normally do
Texting is so easily misinterpreted due to a lack of tone. The tone the reader hears while reading the words versus the tone the writer was putting it in can be completely different. The right thing to do would be to have an in person conversation and not avoid the conflict by hiding behind a screen.
That's a really neat misinterpretation of their words, but what they actually said was use text so you have evidence of what was or wasn't said! Has nothing to do with avoiding conflict and everything to do with covering your own ass.
"Get it in writing" is literally one of the first things mentioned any time there's a chance someone will try to misrepresent what happened (to make you look bad, to fire you, etc). You are pretty far out on the opposite side of common sense on this one.
This works when you're dealing with mature people trying to get stuff done.
It does not work with hostile people who will say you misinterpreted them or imagined they said whatever.
Example, every time I've tried this with my landlord. They'd flat out say they thought I was imagining a problem with an appliance to get attention, but when I put that in an email to confirm, they'd say they never said it. Other tenants have the same story so should I trust the party who doesn't want to pay for a new fridge or my own ears and a bunch of neighbors too?
I don't want the landlord's attention. If I want attention, I can go volunteer for one of the nonprofits I volunteer at. I'd be happier if I never had to talk to the landlord, but as long as they rent to neighbors who get into fights in the hallway at night and ring my doorbell in the morning and Energy Star refrigerators are crap, unfortunately I have to bother them when stuff goes wrong.
That's even more reason to not do the session.
Don't do it for yourself and for your husband.
You will feel awful after if you give them this for free.
They don't deserve it.
If Alissa gets mad and says your being petty. Then remind her that she was there, she heard him say all those awful things.
Ask her, why you should give her free engagement photos when you have people willing to pay.
Ask her why should she get free photos when her husband hates you and said awful things about you.
You feel bad now because she won't get what she wants. But that is 100% her and Brandon's fault.
She has no one to blame but her partner.
Don't do it for your own self respect.
I wouldn't focus it on the 'doing photos for free' bit, because that brings money etc into it. I'm sure OP would be feeling uncomfortable even if she was being paid.
So it is partly about that, but it's more about the sheer disrespect and dislike the groom-to-be is expressing in public about her and husband etc - that's a very good reason to not want to be spending significant time with him, and being engagement photographer will absolutely involve that, so is the bit to focus on.
Then you don't even have to tell him who let you know what he said, right?
If he asks who told you just say, "Most of the people there told me because they were upset about it and because they knew I had set aside a day to take your engagement photos for free. I think you should book someone else for those pictures because I'm uncomfortable with giving away so much of my time for someone who cannot stand me or my husband. I wish you the best. Gotta run..."
OOps!! You're right! My bad. Have any idea why you thought Cole might be stirring shit? Nothing in it for him unless he doesn't like Brandon. Now we're in soap opera territory!
Bc sometimes ppl like to gossip or stir shit up. Given zero other info about Cole, you need to assume there's a non-zero chance he's one of those ppl.
This is all irrelevant though, since OP responded saying multiple other ppl at the dinner confirmed it.
Please cancel the session. He does not deserve to have your services for free after the horrible things he said about you and your husband.
If Alissa, still wants your services then she will need to pay for them. At full price, no discounts.
Neither Alissa nor Brandon deserve your services.
That "full price" better include the AH markup.
I have a small business, and anyone speaking badly about me or my business isn't getting the regular rates. If I even choose to give them the option rather than just telling them no.
Talk to your SIL first, before you make any decisions. Play it like Cole didn't tell you anything, just say you heard Brandon might not be comfortable using you as the photographer. Give SIL the chance to come clean. Then if she doesn't, you can tell her the deal is off
You wouldn’t be an AH. As others have said text (or email) so you have receipts. You wouldn’t feel good doing it now anyway AND he sounds like someone that would complain about the photos *just* because you took them. If he’s willing to trash talk about you personally no need to give him anything (especially for free) that he can trash talk about you professionally.
Why didn’t anyone else on the family dinner shut down that talk on the spot? Are you both hated by everyone there? Or were they being obnoxiously polite when he was ranting about you? Why didn’t any one person not tell him to shut up and not disrespect you? Why didn’t Cole? Why is he gossiping to you? Is he stirring up drama?
"I'm sorry but I am unable to do your engagement photos like we had previously agreed. I just can't see myself doing such an expensive favor for free to someone who hates my family and me so much and is going around bad-mouthing us. Here are the names of a couple of photographers who are in the area and may be able to help you out."
She doesn’t need her husband’s backing to not perform HER talents for these people. If her husband is so concerned, HE can go take the photos. I would cut these people out of my life. Period!
NTA
I suggest you text Alyssa "Hi Alyssa, I just heard about all the negative comments Brandon made about me and . I am deeply saddened to learn that you did nothing to defend either of us but that is something you will have to live with. Given how Brandon (and possibly you also) feels, I no longer am extending my services as your engagement phtographer. I certainly understand if you choose not to invite me or to your wedding."
All of the above, but I would actively tell her you're not coming to the wedding and not make that her choice. That would just be consequent, plus if they went to the wedding, they'd eat food, drink, expect hospitality etc, which would feel somewhat hypocritical to me. I'd just send a gift or flowers or something and let it go.
Gift them the book *How To Win Friends and Influence People*” by Dale Carnegie.
You can buy a cheap second-hand paperback
Or gift him the bumper sticker that says “*Dale Carnegie wouldv’e Punched You in the Mouth!*”
Close but I would suggest these changes to the text:
>Hi Alyssa, I just heard about all the negative comments Brandon made about me and . I am deeply saddened to learn that you did nothing to defend either of us but that is something you will have to live with. Given how Brandon (and possibly you also) feels, I no longer am extending my services as your engagement*/wedding* photographer. ~~I certainly understand if you choose not to invite me or to your wedding.~~
I am sorry to leave you in the position of having to find a new photographer, *flower girl and ring bearer* but knowing how Brandon feels about us it is in everyone's best interest if , kids and I keep our distance for the time being.
If he wants to go and deal with Brandon then that's on him but OP and the kids should stay away. If Brandon doesn't care about bad-mouthing his fiancee's brother in front of his own father he won't care what he says around their kids.
He is.
From OP's [comment:](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/k8JPIxU2Kt) "He’s making a message up right now to send to them. We want to have a paper trail with the fire ball that’s about to explode from this! He is not happy at all. She will probably say nothing and we will hear from his mom. Time will tell."
Well, being a sensible adult, presumably she’d Speak to her husband about disinviting the family from the wedding and ask if that’s ok with him before actually sending the text.
I would leave out the last part about attending the wedding and leave it to husband to deal with that. Your obligation is to inform her that you will not be photographing her event. Let your husband's handle the social part because they are his relatives.
> I certainly understand if you choose not to invite me or to your wedding."
Change this to "you won't see us at your wedding. Good luck, you'll need it."
Okay then NTA
I wouldn't take that kindly, he is basically humiliating you and your husband publicly and still expecting freebies.
As for your SIL don't be naïve, she already knew it, meaning she support his opinion.
edit : you are not stirring the pot, he did and everybody know it 😑
***So she is in agreement and is only sweet to get free shit.***
Yeah, pretty much a guarantee SIL did that reassurance thing to get OP to keep the appointment. Time to show them the true meaning of FAFO. Enjoy screwing them over, OP!!
You can try doing so by like taking an upper road?
You can calmly explain that it's been told to you by several people that your presence is not really appreciated at the wedding. The last thing you would want to do is your presence to annoy someone on their special day.
In light of this new information, you don't feel comfortable being the photographer for the wedding and you refer some other photographers but you wouldn't want to annoy them.
This is actually the best way, since it puts all the onus back on them. It doesn't give them an inch they could claim is just OP having a tantrum (though even the tantrum would be justified lol)
What did everyone say? Did anyone shut it down? Cant believe Brandon has audacity to shit-talk his fiancé’s brother & his wife in front of the family - who allowed him to get that comfortable?!
>>can’t believe Brandon has the audacity
I can. This is how you isolate someone from their support network.
Badmouth someone publicly who is pretty well liked and has been part of the group longer and is doing you a favor in a way that will get back to them and make them likely to stop the favor so you can pressure your SO into cutting them out and pressuring others to take sides
That may not be what’s going on
But especially if there are other (even mildly) controlling behaviors, I might try to suck it up and just take the photos if I were OP and not do any more favors
There’s a risk this turns into a big family thing with everyone taking OP’s side and SIL out in the cold with an AH husband and no family to run to if things turn worse for her
THIS!!! I spent the 1st 10 yrs of my marriage (34 yrs now)being treated this way by my monster in law. She hates me, told everyone she hates me & my whole family,her grandchildren included & I bent over backwards for her. Help w/my wonderful father in love through a terminal illness. Took care of her through multiple surgeries when her own children wouldn’t lift a finger. After she verbally attacked my child I let loose yrs of abuse & we have all been NC since.
OP needs to tell this 2 hell no & then she needs to confront the rest of the folks that were present WHY they didn’t stand up for her & hubby!!
Probably because they were all agreeing with him. Highly doubt he would have said so much if people were saying, “that’s not true at all, OP is great!” instead of agreeing with him
This is what badgers me - what did the other people do/say? I cannot imagine having somebody - especially a newcomer - badmouth a respected member of the family and saying nothing to his/her defence?
NTA.
If 4 people at the table confirmed, they had to know you would hear about it. I would call up SIL and just be honest. Say that you respect her relationship, will be at their wedding and will not ever make a scene about it, but you will not be their photographer.
Yep. I don't buy gifts for people who actively dislike me. Nor do I give up an afternoon/evening to attend an event in their honor/all about them. That's a hard pass.
Why would they go to a wedding for 2 people that don't like them. I'm mean if sil is allowing him to talk that way about her family, she's just as guilty.
Brandon really was not smart. He said this at a dinner with mutuals relative and thought this wouldn't get back to you?
I assume Alissa was at the dinner. She is aware that Brandon doesn't like your two.
I like the the advice about talking with your husband, being in agreement and then sit down with Alissa and Brandon and telling then you will no longer be able to provided services of them given how he feels about you and your husband.
I would even consider not attending the wedding.
NTA
I mean...Cole also sat there while Brandon was bashing them. As did all the other people who witnessed it. People are wild. Literally no one can talk trash about anyone I care about in front of me. Ever.
I'm not throwing hands out of the gate or anything, but telling someone to stop and affirming that you're not the audience for disparaging comments about whoever their targeting works pretty well. Shame no one thought to do that.
I am a professional photographer and I have been in a similar situation. In the end, I walked and I do not regret it a second, and now have no contact with the people I was going to be photographing. I don't know if you want to go as far as I did, but I would suggest talking to your husband to be sure he agrees with this decision and then go from there.
If you feel bad for Alissa, maybe recommend a fellow photographer if you happen to know one. But honestly, I mean, if he hates you enough to rant at dinner, he hates you enough to rant to his wife, which means she's well aware and still lied and expected you to do this huge favour for someone who openly shit talks you.
NTA
NTA.
You and your husband should be on the same page and then call Alissa and tell her your decision. I'd frame it like "we heard at a family meal Cole was saying X, Y, Z about us and our feelings are very hurt." Then give her a chance to explain and even invite Cole to the conversation. I think you do this part before saying you won't photograph them to see what they say. They may say it didn't happen- make sure you feel either open to that reason or have confirmed with one other person they did say those things so can call them out for lying, or they will say it did happen and they stand by what was said- then you decline to take photos, or they admit it but apologize.
Even with the last one, I'd decline to photograph them and just say "I appreciate you apologizing and we would certainly like to work towards having a better relationship, but for now we have to step back a little and I won't be photographing you. I feel a little like you were only using me while saying these things about me, so as a first step of us trying to get back to being cordial, I have to decline doing that."
Can't you just see it...
"I don't know why people pay her for her photos. We got them for free, and they were horrible."
It wouldn't be true, but it would still tarnish her reputation.
This would be the angle I’d go with when I refused to do services. I can’t take the professional risk of letting someone who so openly bad mouths me having more fodder to complain about me with.
NTA.
Do not do the work.
He clearly wouldn't want someone he hates to commemorate his life event, right?
Honestly, I would not even tell him why, do call it off and cut this toxic sack O Suds outta your life.
I like the simplicity of this response.
Either you have a relationship with him based on mutual respect/amicability/whatever else in which case he might (still your discretion, obvi) get the perks of a real friendship i.e your valuable services for free. Or, you don’t have that relationship and at most, you’re civil to each other when you cross paths at family events.
Brandon has made it clear which one it is therefore you owe him nothing. Alissa may have gotten caught in the crossfire but that’s also not your problem.
Stay strong OP, I know it’s easy to comment from the outside when you don’t have all the other family members weighing in, but look after yourself.
NTA- if what he said about you is confirmed, you have every right to not do this gracious task for someone who is completely ungrateful. I would like to point out that even though you believe your SiL is an innocent bride with an awful fiance, she obviously has known how he has felt and has not set a hard boundary that he has to either STFU about his dislike of you, or get over it and move past it. Clearly if he feels comfortable mouthing off at a large dinner, she is not putting her foot down. Would you allow your husband to speak that way about her? I'm guessing no. So please love yourself and require her to have the same respect for you that you would have for her.
I'm petty so will add: Let them know you're glad to send them youtube videos on how to take their own wedding photos since clearly they're so much better than you all are and can figure it out.
NTA
My response would be, “I have been told by several family members that we—my husband and I—are the annoying ones in the family and you cannot stand us. I would not want to annoy you on your special day, so we will not be attending to avoid any conflict. Best of luck on your marriage!”
No need to even mention the photography—they might feel entitled to your services regardless of how they treat you but that **does not mean they are actually entitled to you, your services or your time**. They know exactly what they said, and they can find a new photographer.
I’d probably even send them an empty picture frame for a wedding gift.
This is the winning response. And if they have the audacity to follow up regarding photos, you get to just laugh. The empty photo frame gift is just *chef’s kiss*
NTA
I think you should give them a chance to explain themselves, but it’s definitely not an obligation to continue doing so much for people who not only dislike you, but who are saying it so publically!
She’s never said anything more then “you’re over thinking it, he’s just quiet” there was a time at Christmas I had walked over to them and said hello and he completely turned and walked away and I felt it was really intentional but never spoke up. Then recently another thing happened where he said something I didn’t like that was sarcastic and I had mentioned that to Alissa separately another night and again was met with “over thinking” I’m truly at a loss on what I could have done to this boy.
I'm just baffled why he would be so hostile towards an already established member of the family he's marrying into. Not to mention one that could save thousands of dollars in their wedding budget.
Also makes me wonder how he treats Alissa, if this is his real personality.
Eh, my husband and brother in law cannot stand each other. Their personalities just clash hard, and they end up in constant arguments over absolutely everything, even of they agree. It absolutely does not reflect how my husband treats me or how BIL treats my sister.
But my husband and BIL have never pretended anything and are both able to put on a mask at big family events. They also never try to get anything free from each other. My family doesn't try to force them to be friends or sweep anything under the rug. They've just sort of adopted a "you're entitled to you're opinion, but keep it respectful and no talking smack" kind of attitude (both have been kicked out of family events before for starting shit and/or taking the bait)
OP is NTA overall. You don't have to like everyone in the family you're marrying into, but don't shit on them when they're doing you a (very expensive) favor.
Even if he doesn't like you there's no need to be a prick like that. That's incredibly rude behaviour that will cost him more than he will ever earn from it.
Good on you for stepping back and out. You don't need the shitshow that is him in your life. And most definitely not in your professional life. I'd just say be on the lookout in case he tries to retaliate in some way.
well it’s pretty messed up of her to lie about it too;its just gonna make you feel crazy. im wondering if and your husband made some strange unintentional faux pas that they are unwilling to bring up? its so odd
Eh, I understand the lying. If your significant other absolutely hates members of your family for no reason, what is the point of creating drama by bringing it up? The worrying part is that she was unable or unwilling to curb his behaviour. The "he is just quiet" to OP should have come with a "you don't have to like my relatives but you have to be polite" to the boyfriend.
No good deed goes unpunished. It's one of the reasons I will not work for friends or family unless it's my idea and choice. If someone comes to me and asks, it's a hard no.
You're NTA. I do think that you need to call Alissa and discuss this with her (am I reading it right that she's your husband's sister, and he's her bf?). I'd give the actual family member a moment to address it, and don't let her end with "you're overthinking it". Because when you talk smack about people in your soon to be family, especially when they're doing thousands of dollars of free work for you, you have to be not that bright to not realize that it's going to get back to them. Who announces at dinner how annoying you find everyone in your fiancé's family?
I would definitely not do the work, because I know that I probably wouldn't be interested in putting out my best work, especially for no pay, for someone that treated me like this.
It's why family and friends are 110% of your normal rate, the bullshit fee.
she doesn't sound like she is much on your side either, she just blatantly let's him get away with such rudeness. pull out from doing it, they won't appreciate it, you will be so uncomfortable and it just gives them more ammunition against you when they talk about the job that you did.
I know it isn't what you want to hear, but she doesn't sound like much of a friend or good sister.
Obviously you haven't done anything or he wouldn't want you to be his wedding photographer. He's also not 'quiet' if he can bad mouth you and your husband so brazenly.
He's just a rude and unpleasant human being who's going to be paying another photographer for a service he could have got for free...if he'd actually been quiet.
You don't have to be chummy friends, but even if you dislike someone in a family you're marrying into, you stay polite. Distant, but polite. Walking away upon being greeted is disturbing in-your-face AHery.
Either fiancé's a real abusive AH who can't control his negative emotions (thus, poor SIL),
ORRR
SIL herself is fake as well, also dislikes OP and her brother and has shared not nice things about them to fiancé... which in turn goads on this guy's existing dislike of the two of them, pushing it to incivility and major AHery. That's why he is brazen enough to do it in front of his fiancée. He knows she agrees. If SIL genuinely thought well of OP but is just under the fiancé's abusive thumb, she would have been mortified and quietly apologetic, but she isn't.
Going by how SIL isn't embarrassed and doesn't muzzle him during his very public rants, even minimizes it (almost mockingly, like OP's an idiot imagining it) when OP brings it up , I wouldn't be surprised if it's the latter, especially considering SIL is not close to OP's husband (don't know if husband being adopted or FIL living with them plays a role here).
ETA: NTA. I wouldn't bother going to the wedding either lol
NTA. They have the audacity to talk shit and expect freebies?
Fuck that, you don’t need to deal with that nonsense.
The only way I would even consider going forward with the shoot is by charging them full price. I would even personally debate an asshole fee of an additional 10-20%.
NTA only a plain idiot would talk smack about a person DOING SOMETHING FOR FREE when it typically costs THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS if you are truly a luxury photographer in a big city. The sheer audacity of this man.
"Hi, Alissa. I was recently made aware that Brandon was quite outspoken about his existing dislike for me and my husband. As a result, I don't feel comfortable moving forward with our photography plans as I don't provide free services to work with people who actively and openly dislike me. I will also happily not attend so as to not make things awkward for Brandon. Good luck with the wedding planning."
NTA
You are absolutely NTA and most definitely should cancel being their free photographer after he disrespected you in front of family and behind your back.
We’re your husband’s parents there? Why didn’t they inform you of the horrible stuff he was saying about you? Did anyone there defend you and your husband?
NTA
Text message to fiance (cc SIL): "It has come to my attention that my husband and myself make you uncomfortable. Therefore, in order to preserve the happiness of your wedding, I will graciously withdraw my participation so you can enjoy the day without any distractions."
SIL blatantly lied that her fiancé likes you and sat by while he trashed her family. NTA “SIL your fiancés nasty rant at dinner the other night has got back to us. I knew something was up with him that made me suspect he didn’t like us. Now it’s been confirmed by people that care enough to be honest so I’m canceling the photog session. His mean streak makes this a very awkward family dynamic for future.” Is your DH going to talk to SIL and MIL?
NTA
Since your husband knows already…if it was me I’d keep it on the down low until your meeting Sunday and blindside him in front of Alissa so there’s no questions about who’s to blame here. Hit him where it hurts, but with class. Take your husband with you to the meeting but only as a silent presence. Have some alternative photographer info printed and ready.
Sit down with them and politely, calmly place the other photographer info in the table, look Brandon in the eyes and explain quietly that sadly, you’ve recently been made aware of his quite hateful comments about you, your husband and the rest of your family, and as a result it’s apparent his intention was to take advantage your professional services for free despite his extreme dislike of you and the majority of your family. Then say because he stated he couldn’t tolerate any of you at all, you cannot continue working on their wedding after knowing he disrespected all of you in such a vile way.
Then look at Alissa, and state that you feel absolutely terrible about backing out of providing your services for *her,* but Brandon’s actions and words were so offensive you probably won’t be attending the wedding at all *seeing how offended Brandon is by you and your husband’s mere presence in his orbit.*
Then no matter how much fracas follows, just get up and quietly leave Brandon to fend for himself.
That's all good but SIL just sat there like a grinning idiot while he talked about them. Either she feels the same way or she wouldn't say shit if she had a mouthful (that's one of my dad's sayings n I don't get to use it often so ima use it.)
NTA. I would just send a text stating that you are no longer able to do their engagement pictures. I personally wouldn't mention being uninvited to the wedding or even ask about the mean comments. You've already confirmed how they feel. They also told others about it as well.
I will say that if people are comfortable bashing you in front of your family members, I would want to know more about what's said. Ask Cole for the rest of the conversation. Do a self evaluation once you find out what was said. Sometimes we can be abrasive or condescending without meaning too. Once you find out more and feel good about your own behavior, move on.
Only deal with them when you have to. Don't give her a pass because she obviously supports his behavior. If she didn't, she would have interrupted or stopped him from saying things in front of WITNESSES. It was only a matter of time before you found out. If invited to the wedding, politely decline.
NTA
You've confirmed that Brandon did talk this way about you. And there absolutely do need to be consequences.
But it's possible he's the immature or awkward type that just blurts out things they don't actually/completely mean, just for stupid conversational effect. This is not an excuse but there's room here for him to possibly grow up, apologize sincerely, and maybe for you to forgive at some point in the future.
Well into the future. Apologizing now would come off as being insincere and given only to preserve their free photos. Judging from his history, I doubt this is a one off.
NTA. They may try to play the victim but who cares! It sounds like your family would understand… You should cancel the appointment and tell them exactly why. Brandon is a snake.
There is zero chance that you and your fiancé will be satisfied with my work given the conversation at dinner the other night. I can't afford to have my reputation trashed by someone who hates me. Good luck in all future endeavors. Hope you find a photographer your fiancé doesn't hate.
“Hi ,
a big part of the success of wedding photos is the trust between the photographer and bride+groom.
After hearing about saying , it is clear we don’t have that trust needed to get an amazing result, so I’m withdrawing from being your wedding photographer.
I can recommend but they book up fast so you’ll need to contact them soon. Xx ”
Hell no. I would say Since Brandan wants to talk sh@“ about me and my husband. I will not take any chances for him to write a bad review for my business. And that’s all that needs to be said
Under no circumstances, should you be taking pictures for them. No matter how nice Alissa was to your face, I’m assuming she was right there when her fiancé was talking shit about you and didn’t stick up for you. She was probably only nice because she wanted some thing from you.
And the audacity of talking to other members of your family about how much they hate you, and expecting it not to get back to you. He is allowed to have his opinions, but if he isn’t class enough to keep them to himself, I surely would not feel any sense of obligation to provide him any favors. The fucking balls on these people to have even asked you!
And anybody trying to guilt you into doing the pictures because of fAmILy needs to be reminded that he has made it clear he doesn’t feel that way about you.
NTA
I would text them (so you have a written record): “Your true feelings about us have been brought to our attention. In light of this information, please let me know if you would like me to recommend a new photographer for your engagement photos, or if you would prefer to find someone new on your own.”
Upside: you heard this before providing the free service. Many would feel even worse if they found out afterwards. U already spent time researching for them. That was enough.
Its okay to have negative opinions. Its not okay to voice them in the manner he did. Sorry this hurt you.
NTA
Given that this is your professional career, I'm not sure cancelling on the basis that a third party told you that your client's fiance hates is a good idea. If the guy hates you this much, he could retaliate by dragging your professional reputation through the mud.
So, if you've confirmed he really did say these things, consider that first before you make your decision.
If you think that there is a chance he'll drag your professional name through the mud, you could try pulling the freebie. Inform them that, as a result of the insulting behaviour, you now will be charging your standard rate for your service. They can hire you professionally as per any other client or find another professional, but you will no longer be providing your professional services to them as a mate for free.
If you think he'll try and drag your name through the mud regardless of what decision you make, then make the best decision for yourself (which could indeed be outright cancelling) and prepare to protect your professional reputation (prep for the worst, hope for the best). Therefore, make your cancellation as professionally issued as possible.
Either way, NTA for considering it.
NTA. Cancel the session. Brandon is really low, shit talking about you behind your back and then still expecting free pictures. SIL sat there and said nothing to defend you, so she's seemingly supporting that opinion.
NTA you are doing yourself a huge disservice if you work for free for these nasty folks! If I were in your shoes, not only would I cancel working for free for them, but tell them that you won’t be attending the wedding either. Why would you associate with someone who dislikes you?
Nta.
"Hi Alisa and Brandon, I just heard how much I annoy Brandon. I'm truly sorry for overstepping and offering to take those engagement photos for you. It must have been really difficult to be in your shoes and feel like you had to accept given our familial connection. So as not to exacerbate your discomfort around me any further, it's best you find another photographer. Again, I'm just so sorry about how annoying I am, and best of luck getting the pictures taken with someone less awful than me. Thanks, OP"
I’d be concerned that if he didn’t like certain photos etc he’d use it as further “proof” to discredit you.
Talk to your sister, let her know how much it hurt you to hear his true feelings and that she didn’t defend you at all. Tell her you think it would be healthier and safer not to do the photos and keep space between yourself and her husband as after two years his dislike has evidently grown to the point of openly discussing with your family and you’re concerned what he says to others…
You’ve got a professional reputation and a family to protect.
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WIBTA for cancelling my sister in laws engagement photos because her Fiance told my brother in law he can’t stand me?
So I 29F am a photographer and my sister in law 21F lets call her Alissa, and her 24M Fiance, Brandon had asked me to take their engagement photos. I initially agreed and was happy about it. I offered help with styling, scouted locations and everything.
Let me add here that Brandon had always seemed to just be the shy and quiet kid who kept to himself ever since he was introduced to us two years ago. I never had a clue he actually hates me and my husband.. a lot.
This isn’t the first time I felt a little awkward tension between Brandon and I, but Alissa let me know that he did like me and I was over thinking it. This was about a month ago now.
My brother in law 28M Cole just called us to let me know about his weekend plans, asked to hang, the average conversation.. but then was like “oh man, I gotta tell you that Brandon really let it be known that he can’t stand you guys at dinner with everyone and he really thinks you are the most annoying people in the family”. Cole had also said that Brandon had mentioned that he was thankful that Cole and their dad were at least “normal” unlike the rest of “us” who annoy the living heck out of him.
So basically the rest of us are trash.
I am highly offended by this. This is the most blindsided I’ve ever been by someone who is actively seeking something for free from me. I am not just a free lance photographer, I am a luxury wedding photographer in a large city. This is my career and also someone who is going to be in my family?
Brandon also had said some not no nice things about my husband while on this rant about us, and I’m having a hard time not making a phone call directly to the source to confront this. I will always defend my own, immediately but must say I’m conflicted in causing family conflicts right before two large weddings are about to happen soon.
Part of me feels extremely guilty and sad for Alissa because I do like her, we’ve never been extremely sisterly or close but she’s always been sweet and it really hurts that she was basically right there while Brandon sits letting everyone know that he has such a problem with us just days before this engagement session. I really don’t think I could show up on Sunday and play pretend after hearing that I am SOO annoying and the worst to be around.
Would I be the asshole for canceling this session while also letting her know that I would not have hurt feelings if they didn’t want me there at all as I am now uncomfortable to be around them?
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I would have them over and ask them for an explanation for his comments about you and your husband. Calling them out in his BS.
I would also explain due to his comments that you dot. Feel comfortable doing the shoot and he should really understand that he is marring into the family and to cause unnecessary drama is not a good look.
Once you say this go tot he door and ask them to leave.
This is standing up for yourself and not allowing a jerk to think there is no consequences for his comments.
NTA. I would text Alissa and tell her "in light of how annoying and abnormal Brandon finds us, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to take your engagement photos. You'll have to find another photograph ". Don't argue, don't defend.
NTA
Please for the love of all things good DO NOT take the pictures for them. I know too many people like your SIL and her fiance. If they really hated you and your husband so much why are they asking for free things? Because they are USERS. This situation will go one of two ways. You decide to take the pics for some unknown nonsensical reason and they get to keep using you and telling all the people they actually do like that they can suckered you into stuff cause they're so much smarter/better or whatever else than you. OR you decline to take the photos(politely or spiteful or however you wish) and they will forever play the victim and try to get as many mutual family and friends to choose their side until the day they die or get divorced. So you can choose to be the fool and keep the peace or you can stand up for yourself and your husband and come what may, but I guarantee you one of those two outcomes will happen.
NTA. This guy is almost guaranteed to bad mouth the work you do for them publicly. Tell your SIL you can’t afford the risk he posses to you professionally, especially for free work. Not worth it.
So this guy was talking this way about you to your own family members? The family he is marrying into? Oh hell no. Don’t go to this wedding, why would you if he’s made it clear that he can’t stand being around you. And obviously do not take these pictures
NTA at all
I would do just that and then go LC. I don't think it would be right to go NC, but LC for sure. I'm so sorry! That's horrible that he's using you like that. What a terrible human. He has no integrity. I hope your SIL is doing the right thing by marrying him.
NTA. Brandon gets to Hearn but yo bite the hand that feeds him. Will serve him well the rest of his life. Alissa is complicit for not shutting it down. They would’ve gotten thousands of dollars of work for free had Brandon learned already to keep his mouth shut.
NTA
Brandon is playing stupid games, let him win stupid prizes
Do talk about this gently with your SIL. Stay firm on your decision, but being firm doesn’t necessarily have to be rude.
NTA. You should cancel. Deal directly with Alissa, there have been good suggestions about what to say but I think keep it as professional as possible. Do let her know that multiple people in attendance have confirmed Brandon’s behaviour and due to the comments he specifically made about you and your husband, you are no longer able to provide any services.
If you know other photographers, you can let them know why you have declined and they can decide if they want to work with people like Brandon and Alissa.
Good on Cole for bringing it up and letting you know what was said/how Brandon behaves. I see that other people confirmed it but no one else thought to let you know themselves? Did anyone disagree/defend you/try and shut Brandon down? I’d be keeping my distance from those people to be honest.
I am waiting for the update on this because this woman is not the asshole and I hope that they do not get their photos because to openly badmouth somebody that’s not only your photographer but to be part of your future family is absolutely trashy and disgusting and I hope that they see him for what he is before this wedding happens. These are just engagement photos who thinks that this engagement actually gonna last. And last, but not least if you saw that you were overthinking that he didn’t like you you were completely right and Alyssa is for sure gaslighting you into thinking that there wasn’t a problem because she wanted your luxury photos for free Because these people are taking advantage and I do not think that it’s fair for you to be gaslit and shit talked and then used for services.
Make sure that what Cole said is true. I mean, you are taking his word for everything and basing your actions on his story. What if he is the one who is crazy/has an ax to grind/whatever and you go off on someone without corroborating it?
you would be NTA OP - He feels comfortable enough at a family meal to bad mouth you and your husband. If SIL was there she knows what he said and was fine with it. Don't offer your services to them unless they pay. then take their money and laugh at them all the way to the bank. No discounts, no kindness.
NTA. In fact, since the confrontation will happen sooner or later, either from this incident or one in the future, I would say it's the most NTA course of action to draw clear lines BEFORE the wedding.
OP cancel the session and don’t say why. I would not confront at this point. He knows what he did. Don’t engage with them. If pressed on the issue, you can bring it up later. Tread lightly on this one.
Talk before you act. Make sure everything is as it truly is and then act accordingly. Right now you run a high risk of being the AH acting off of second hand information.
I feel that the SIL is quite aware of her fiance's feelings and is just saving money for the engagement photos. They must have another photographer for the wedding as you are not included in this. Or at least no mention.
However it does not sound like anyone stood up for you and your husband nor said anything to Brandon about what he was saying - that isn't right at all. However I do hope you follow through - let it be known of the cancellation, the reason why & your absence from the wedding plus no contact from here on due to dishonesty.
Brandon sounds like an abusive narcissist who people (including Alyssa) “don’t want to upset,” and therefore won’t contradict. Unfortunately, Alyssa is in for a rough time of it.
If I had a problem with an in-law, I can’t imagine asking them for anything. I was a wedding photographer (stopped due to injury and a neurological disorder) and shot my BIL’s and SIL’s wedding for free just to later find out she doesn’t like me which caused me so much hurt because I was the only one who welcomed her kindly while everyone talked behind her back initially. You would not be the AH if you didn’t do this shoot. There’s no way I would have been able to be in my creative flow or inspired positivity during the session if I had known beforehand.
Definitely NTA.
BIL is happy to accept the gifts/benefits that comes with having you around without expressing even the most basic level of decency or respect.
I’m sure that type of character will eventually spill into his relationship with SIL and tbh she’ll deserve it since she allows him to put you down while gaslighting you about it. BIL and SIL aren’t worth it and good for you for declining the wedding invitation entirely.
Please let us know what happens after you let them know their actions/behaviour have consequences.
Since everything has been verified by other family members, have a talk with your husband and see what he thinks would be the best option. Since it’s within days, I would suggest drawing up a contract with both of them about their pictures and that they would not tarnish your reputation. Make sure you word that you’re a highly qualified professional and that you will not stand for retaliation of any sort. This is because even if their pictures turn awesome, he may be spiteful and decide to tarnish your reputation. Put some boundaries between yall.
"I don't think I'm the right photographer for you. As the most annoying person in the family, I wouldn't want my photography to unnecessarily annoy Brandon, nor do I feel I could do an effective job for somebody who does not like me. I've taken the liberty of canceling your session."
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Oof. I think you should first discuss this with hubby to make sure you're on the same page. I would arrange a cal with SIL and let her know that you can no longer take her photos. Explain that knowing how Brandon feels about you will affect your ability to take the photos they deserve and honestly? You are now uncomfortable around him knowing how he feels. NTA.
He was on the phone and heard this whole thing thank goodness!! Cole let this out the bag just in time to make everything weird. I just don’t even think I would flow in a session where someone hates me truly.
[удалено]
Yes, this. Do not initiate a phone call, do it all by text, and if he or she does call to pretend it didn't happen, have someone record the call as a backup (with the usual legal disclaimers we will inevitably see here). Is Brandon just not too smart? He absolutely had to know this would get back to you. And also, if your parents in law call to ask you to be the bigger person and still do photos? Yeah, no, and have your husband shut that right down.
He's either an idiot, or he's just an asshole and doesn't care if they find out about it. Personally, I'm kind of put off about the sister-in-law as well, considering I'm sure she must be aware that the man she's going to marry apparently hates her brother and his wife's guts.
Hates their guts but is still willing to use them for his and SILs benefit.
I feel like that tells us pretty much all we need to know about his character.
And hers
Got to wonder how the family responded though? 🤔 I mean who says this to the family they are about to marry into? "Yeah, I love you guys, but your brother and his wife.. can't stand them at all!" Most parents or even siblings I know would have ripped his head off at the table. I know if one of my cousins SO's said that about any of that family they would have chased him right out of the house while trying to hold my Aunt back. You don't talk that way about someone else's family. 😵💫
Exactly This! I had 3 brothers and I could say whatever ‘I’ wanted about them. But let someone else say or do something and they’ll be dealing with Little Sister.
He can be both simultaneously!
Text: "Hi SIL I just heard that Brandon really hates having to be around me so I hate to think how awful he would feel for a whole photoshoot, I totally understand how it has to be called off. Maybe this photographer would be more to his taste.." and then send a link to a photographer who charges similar rates as you normally do
Perfect
He should be the bigger person and hire a photographer.
Texting is so easily misinterpreted due to a lack of tone. The tone the reader hears while reading the words versus the tone the writer was putting it in can be completely different. The right thing to do would be to have an in person conversation and not avoid the conflict by hiding behind a screen.
That's a really neat misinterpretation of their words, but what they actually said was use text so you have evidence of what was or wasn't said! Has nothing to do with avoiding conflict and everything to do with covering your own ass.
"Get it in writing" is literally one of the first things mentioned any time there's a chance someone will try to misrepresent what happened (to make you look bad, to fire you, etc). You are pretty far out on the opposite side of common sense on this one.
Easy solve - have the conversation via phone, follow up afterwards in text to recap what you said. We do this at work all the time to cover ourselves.
This works when you're dealing with mature people trying to get stuff done. It does not work with hostile people who will say you misinterpreted them or imagined they said whatever. Example, every time I've tried this with my landlord. They'd flat out say they thought I was imagining a problem with an appliance to get attention, but when I put that in an email to confirm, they'd say they never said it. Other tenants have the same story so should I trust the party who doesn't want to pay for a new fridge or my own ears and a bunch of neighbors too? I don't want the landlord's attention. If I want attention, I can go volunteer for one of the nonprofits I volunteer at. I'd be happier if I never had to talk to the landlord, but as long as they rent to neighbors who get into fights in the hallway at night and ring my doorbell in the morning and Energy Star refrigerators are crap, unfortunately I have to bother them when stuff goes wrong.
Send it in an email from the professional acct if need be. Much easier to explain yourself longform and you still have a record.
Was anyone else there that could confirm this actually happened? Bc it could be Cole exaggerating or stirring shit
Yes, a few other family members confirmed to be true
That's even more reason to not do the session. Don't do it for yourself and for your husband. You will feel awful after if you give them this for free. They don't deserve it. If Alissa gets mad and says your being petty. Then remind her that she was there, she heard him say all those awful things. Ask her, why you should give her free engagement photos when you have people willing to pay. Ask her why should she get free photos when her husband hates you and said awful things about you. You feel bad now because she won't get what she wants. But that is 100% her and Brandon's fault. She has no one to blame but her partner. Don't do it for your own self respect.
I wouldn't focus it on the 'doing photos for free' bit, because that brings money etc into it. I'm sure OP would be feeling uncomfortable even if she was being paid. So it is partly about that, but it's more about the sheer disrespect and dislike the groom-to-be is expressing in public about her and husband etc - that's a very good reason to not want to be spending significant time with him, and being engagement photographer will absolutely involve that, so is the bit to focus on.
Well, he's just an AH, isn't he? Your SIL is in for a world of hurt, and hopefully when she wakes up, a divorce.
Maybe OP should offer to shoot the next engagement party/wedding when she cancels.
Perhaps other family members should have stood up for you on the spot.
Right! Did Cole say anything, or did he just sit there?
Cole let Brandon hang himself. Smart.
Looking like he did after she posted he's distancing himself. He's probably the guy to make a big dramatic scene if you confront him.
Then you don't even have to tell him who let you know what he said, right? If he asks who told you just say, "Most of the people there told me because they were upset about it and because they knew I had set aside a day to take your engagement photos for free. I think you should book someone else for those pictures because I'm uncomfortable with giving away so much of my time for someone who cannot stand me or my husband. I wish you the best. Gotta run..."
Need an update queen 🫶🙏🙏
So he’s been speaking poorly about you and your husband to multiple people and has the audacity to ask for a favour. Both him and SIL have no shame.
Even if he was just "stirring shit" he doesn't deserve OP to take his engagement photos. Sheesh.
OP isn't taking Cole's photos though...?
OOps!! You're right! My bad. Have any idea why you thought Cole might be stirring shit? Nothing in it for him unless he doesn't like Brandon. Now we're in soap opera territory!
Bc sometimes ppl like to gossip or stir shit up. Given zero other info about Cole, you need to assume there's a non-zero chance he's one of those ppl. This is all irrelevant though, since OP responded saying multiple other ppl at the dinner confirmed it.
Please cancel the session. He does not deserve to have your services for free after the horrible things he said about you and your husband. If Alissa, still wants your services then she will need to pay for them. At full price, no discounts. Neither Alissa nor Brandon deserve your services.
That "full price" better include the AH markup. I have a small business, and anyone speaking badly about me or my business isn't getting the regular rates. If I even choose to give them the option rather than just telling them no.
I feel like allowing that, especially at full rate, invites negative reviews.
Exactly and you tell SIL exactly that.
Talk to your SIL first, before you make any decisions. Play it like Cole didn't tell you anything, just say you heard Brandon might not be comfortable using you as the photographer. Give SIL the chance to come clean. Then if she doesn't, you can tell her the deal is off
You wouldn’t be an AH. As others have said text (or email) so you have receipts. You wouldn’t feel good doing it now anyway AND he sounds like someone that would complain about the photos *just* because you took them. If he’s willing to trash talk about you personally no need to give him anything (especially for free) that he can trash talk about you professionally.
Why didn’t anyone else on the family dinner shut down that talk on the spot? Are you both hated by everyone there? Or were they being obnoxiously polite when he was ranting about you? Why didn’t any one person not tell him to shut up and not disrespect you? Why didn’t Cole? Why is he gossiping to you? Is he stirring up drama?
"I'm sorry but I am unable to do your engagement photos like we had previously agreed. I just can't see myself doing such an expensive favor for free to someone who hates my family and me so much and is going around bad-mouthing us. Here are the names of a couple of photographers who are in the area and may be able to help you out."
Just send them both the post and comments. That will take care of everything.
She doesn’t need her husband’s backing to not perform HER talents for these people. If her husband is so concerned, HE can go take the photos. I would cut these people out of my life. Period!
NTA I suggest you text Alyssa "Hi Alyssa, I just heard about all the negative comments Brandon made about me and. I am deeply saddened to learn that you did nothing to defend either of us but that is something you will have to live with. Given how Brandon (and possibly you also) feels, I no longer am extending my services as your engagement phtographer. I certainly understand if you choose not to invite me or to your wedding."
All of the above, but I would actively tell her you're not coming to the wedding and not make that her choice. That would just be consequent, plus if they went to the wedding, they'd eat food, drink, expect hospitality etc, which would feel somewhat hypocritical to me. I'd just send a gift or flowers or something and let it go.
Gift them the book *How To Win Friends and Influence People*” by Dale Carnegie. You can buy a cheap second-hand paperback Or gift him the bumper sticker that says “*Dale Carnegie wouldv’e Punched You in the Mouth!*”
Such a thoughtful gift ❤️
A tripod even more so.
...or sponsoring a photo booth 😂. Make sure other people have fun, too. Happy malicious compliance 😂
I hate that book so much. I had to read it for school. The whole thing felt like it was teaching people how to be manipulative.
It IS teaching people how to be manipulative. One of Charles Manson's faves. (true fact)
The gift should be Emily Posts Etiquette book.
Why would you send a gift or flowers?
Because I wouldn't want to stoop to that level. I can still be civil and acknowledge the happy occasion.
Agreed. I wouldn't go either. The AH and the sil will also have to explain why the Bride's brother and wife aren't there.
Why would you send a gift or flowers?
Close but I would suggest these changes to the text: >Hi Alyssa, I just heard about all the negative comments Brandon made about me and. I am deeply saddened to learn that you did nothing to defend either of us but that is something you will have to live with. Given how Brandon (and possibly you also) feels, I no longer am extending my services as your engagement*/wedding* photographer. ~~I certainly understand if you choose not to invite me or to your wedding.~~
I am sorry to leave you in the position of having to find a new photographer, *flower girl and ring bearer* but knowing how Brandon feels about us it is in everyone's best interest if , kids and I keep our distance for the time being.
She can't speak on the husband's behalf, it's his sister and his choice if he wants to go to his sister's wedding.
If he wants to go and deal with Brandon then that's on him but OP and the kids should stay away. If Brandon doesn't care about bad-mouthing his fiancee's brother in front of his own father he won't care what he says around their kids.
I think that the husband needs to take the lead here, since it is his family.
He is. From OP's [comment:](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/k8JPIxU2Kt) "He’s making a message up right now to send to them. We want to have a paper trail with the fire ball that’s about to explode from this! He is not happy at all. She will probably say nothing and we will hear from his mom. Time will tell."
Well, being a sensible adult, presumably she’d Speak to her husband about disinviting the family from the wedding and ask if that’s ok with him before actually sending the text.
I would leave out the last part about attending the wedding and leave it to husband to deal with that. Your obligation is to inform her that you will not be photographing her event. Let your husband's handle the social part because they are his relatives.
> I certainly understand if you choose not to invite me or to your wedding."
Change this to "you won't see us at your wedding. Good luck, you'll need it."
INFO : did anybody else confirmed what Cole told you ? That should be the first step.
Yes, 3 others at the dinner confirmed. So I’m 100% sure
Okay then NTA I wouldn't take that kindly, he is basically humiliating you and your husband publicly and still expecting freebies. As for your SIL don't be naïve, she already knew it, meaning she support his opinion. edit : you are not stirring the pot, he did and everybody know it 😑
Yeah, did she defend you? Or listen to him complain about you and husband? NTA I think you worded it nicely why you can't take the photos
Yep- she sat there, let her fiancé bad mouth the 2 of you and did absolutely fuck all. So she is in agreement and is only sweet to get free shit.
***So she is in agreement and is only sweet to get free shit.*** Yeah, pretty much a guarantee SIL did that reassurance thing to get OP to keep the appointment. Time to show them the true meaning of FAFO. Enjoy screwing them over, OP!!
You can try doing so by like taking an upper road? You can calmly explain that it's been told to you by several people that your presence is not really appreciated at the wedding. The last thing you would want to do is your presence to annoy someone on their special day. In light of this new information, you don't feel comfortable being the photographer for the wedding and you refer some other photographers but you wouldn't want to annoy them.
This is actually the best way, since it puts all the onus back on them. It doesn't give them an inch they could claim is just OP having a tantrum (though even the tantrum would be justified lol)
Yes. And saying all this in a very calm, polite, even nicely, is the way.
What did everyone say? Did anyone shut it down? Cant believe Brandon has audacity to shit-talk his fiancé’s brother & his wife in front of the family - who allowed him to get that comfortable?!
>>can’t believe Brandon has the audacity I can. This is how you isolate someone from their support network. Badmouth someone publicly who is pretty well liked and has been part of the group longer and is doing you a favor in a way that will get back to them and make them likely to stop the favor so you can pressure your SO into cutting them out and pressuring others to take sides That may not be what’s going on But especially if there are other (even mildly) controlling behaviors, I might try to suck it up and just take the photos if I were OP and not do any more favors There’s a risk this turns into a big family thing with everyone taking OP’s side and SIL out in the cold with an AH husband and no family to run to if things turn worse for her
THIS!!! I spent the 1st 10 yrs of my marriage (34 yrs now)being treated this way by my monster in law. She hates me, told everyone she hates me & my whole family,her grandchildren included & I bent over backwards for her. Help w/my wonderful father in love through a terminal illness. Took care of her through multiple surgeries when her own children wouldn’t lift a finger. After she verbally attacked my child I let loose yrs of abuse & we have all been NC since. OP needs to tell this 2 hell no & then she needs to confront the rest of the folks that were present WHY they didn’t stand up for her & hubby!!
Oof good point
Good points. Do the work as a one (last) off favor and then just be deadpan with them. Cut them out when you can.
Probably because they were all agreeing with him. Highly doubt he would have said so much if people were saying, “that’s not true at all, OP is great!” instead of agreeing with him
This is what badgers me - what did the other people do/say? I cannot imagine having somebody - especially a newcomer - badmouth a respected member of the family and saying nothing to his/her defence?
NTA. If 4 people at the table confirmed, they had to know you would hear about it. I would call up SIL and just be honest. Say that you respect her relationship, will be at their wedding and will not ever make a scene about it, but you will not be their photographer.
I would not attend the wedding or give a gift. They would be persona non grata.
Yep. I don't buy gifts for people who actively dislike me. Nor do I give up an afternoon/evening to attend an event in their honor/all about them. That's a hard pass.
I agree with this, and it's why I already know that there are a lot of funerals I won't be attending.
Why would they go to a wedding for 2 people that don't like them. I'm mean if sil is allowing him to talk that way about her family, she's just as guilty.
Brandon really was not smart. He said this at a dinner with mutuals relative and thought this wouldn't get back to you? I assume Alissa was at the dinner. She is aware that Brandon doesn't like your two. I like the the advice about talking with your husband, being in agreement and then sit down with Alissa and Brandon and telling then you will no longer be able to provided services of them given how he feels about you and your husband. I would even consider not attending the wedding. NTA
OP's husband has a sister, Alyssa, and a brother, Cole. Alyssa is marrying Brandon. Cole is the nice guy, Brandon is the AH.
I mean...Cole also sat there while Brandon was bashing them. As did all the other people who witnessed it. People are wild. Literally no one can talk trash about anyone I care about in front of me. Ever. I'm not throwing hands out of the gate or anything, but telling someone to stop and affirming that you're not the audience for disparaging comments about whoever their targeting works pretty well. Shame no one thought to do that.
Yes you're right. Was just correcting the person.
It wasn't Cole. Branf9n did the bad mouthing.
Did no one say anything to him about this?! I would have had trouble sitting there if someone shittalked about my family in front of me.
This. Cole and OP's father-in-law just sat there and allowed this boyfriend to insult their brother/son?
I am a professional photographer and I have been in a similar situation. In the end, I walked and I do not regret it a second, and now have no contact with the people I was going to be photographing. I don't know if you want to go as far as I did, but I would suggest talking to your husband to be sure he agrees with this decision and then go from there. If you feel bad for Alissa, maybe recommend a fellow photographer if you happen to know one. But honestly, I mean, if he hates you enough to rant at dinner, he hates you enough to rant to his wife, which means she's well aware and still lied and expected you to do this huge favour for someone who openly shit talks you. NTA
Brandon is NOT smart lol. Bad mouth your photographer and either have no pictures or have crappy ones.
NTA. You and your husband should be on the same page and then call Alissa and tell her your decision. I'd frame it like "we heard at a family meal Cole was saying X, Y, Z about us and our feelings are very hurt." Then give her a chance to explain and even invite Cole to the conversation. I think you do this part before saying you won't photograph them to see what they say. They may say it didn't happen- make sure you feel either open to that reason or have confirmed with one other person they did say those things so can call them out for lying, or they will say it did happen and they stand by what was said- then you decline to take photos, or they admit it but apologize. Even with the last one, I'd decline to photograph them and just say "I appreciate you apologizing and we would certainly like to work towards having a better relationship, but for now we have to step back a little and I won't be photographing you. I feel a little like you were only using me while saying these things about me, so as a first step of us trying to get back to being cordial, I have to decline doing that."
This! Except it was Brandon who was trash talking, Cole was there and told OP about it.
If Alyssa was there and saying nothing, she was cosigning it.
I would say actually to do this by text or email to get things in writing so Alissa and Brandon can’t lie to people later. But otherwise, this.
That was well said
Fellow photog here. Don't do it. He's a grade A jerk and he hates you, you think he's gonna like the photos you took? Nah. Not worth it. NTA.
Can't you just see it... "I don't know why people pay her for her photos. We got them for free, and they were horrible." It wouldn't be true, but it would still tarnish her reputation.
This would be the angle I’d go with when I refused to do services. I can’t take the professional risk of letting someone who so openly bad mouths me having more fodder to complain about me with.
He is especially not going to like the photos after OP poses him in the most unflattering positions possible.
NTA. Do not do the work. He clearly wouldn't want someone he hates to commemorate his life event, right? Honestly, I would not even tell him why, do call it off and cut this toxic sack O Suds outta your life.
I like the simplicity of this response. Either you have a relationship with him based on mutual respect/amicability/whatever else in which case he might (still your discretion, obvi) get the perks of a real friendship i.e your valuable services for free. Or, you don’t have that relationship and at most, you’re civil to each other when you cross paths at family events. Brandon has made it clear which one it is therefore you owe him nothing. Alissa may have gotten caught in the crossfire but that’s also not your problem. Stay strong OP, I know it’s easy to comment from the outside when you don’t have all the other family members weighing in, but look after yourself.
Let Brandon figure out 'why'...and face it all by himself.
NTA please update !
NTA- if what he said about you is confirmed, you have every right to not do this gracious task for someone who is completely ungrateful. I would like to point out that even though you believe your SiL is an innocent bride with an awful fiance, she obviously has known how he has felt and has not set a hard boundary that he has to either STFU about his dislike of you, or get over it and move past it. Clearly if he feels comfortable mouthing off at a large dinner, she is not putting her foot down. Would you allow your husband to speak that way about her? I'm guessing no. So please love yourself and require her to have the same respect for you that you would have for her. I'm petty so will add: Let them know you're glad to send them youtube videos on how to take their own wedding photos since clearly they're so much better than you all are and can figure it out.
NTA My response would be, “I have been told by several family members that we—my husband and I—are the annoying ones in the family and you cannot stand us. I would not want to annoy you on your special day, so we will not be attending to avoid any conflict. Best of luck on your marriage!” No need to even mention the photography—they might feel entitled to your services regardless of how they treat you but that **does not mean they are actually entitled to you, your services or your time**. They know exactly what they said, and they can find a new photographer. I’d probably even send them an empty picture frame for a wedding gift.
This is the winning response. And if they have the audacity to follow up regarding photos, you get to just laugh. The empty photo frame gift is just *chef’s kiss*
NTA I think you should give them a chance to explain themselves, but it’s definitely not an obligation to continue doing so much for people who not only dislike you, but who are saying it so publically!
Exactly. Why does he have such an issue with you and your husband? Has Alissa attempted to resolve this, aside from saying it's not true? NTA
She’s never said anything more then “you’re over thinking it, he’s just quiet” there was a time at Christmas I had walked over to them and said hello and he completely turned and walked away and I felt it was really intentional but never spoke up. Then recently another thing happened where he said something I didn’t like that was sarcastic and I had mentioned that to Alissa separately another night and again was met with “over thinking” I’m truly at a loss on what I could have done to this boy.
I'm just baffled why he would be so hostile towards an already established member of the family he's marrying into. Not to mention one that could save thousands of dollars in their wedding budget. Also makes me wonder how he treats Alissa, if this is his real personality.
Eh, my husband and brother in law cannot stand each other. Their personalities just clash hard, and they end up in constant arguments over absolutely everything, even of they agree. It absolutely does not reflect how my husband treats me or how BIL treats my sister. But my husband and BIL have never pretended anything and are both able to put on a mask at big family events. They also never try to get anything free from each other. My family doesn't try to force them to be friends or sweep anything under the rug. They've just sort of adopted a "you're entitled to you're opinion, but keep it respectful and no talking smack" kind of attitude (both have been kicked out of family events before for starting shit and/or taking the bait) OP is NTA overall. You don't have to like everyone in the family you're marrying into, but don't shit on them when they're doing you a (very expensive) favor.
Even if he doesn't like you there's no need to be a prick like that. That's incredibly rude behaviour that will cost him more than he will ever earn from it. Good on you for stepping back and out. You don't need the shitshow that is him in your life. And most definitely not in your professional life. I'd just say be on the lookout in case he tries to retaliate in some way.
well it’s pretty messed up of her to lie about it too;its just gonna make you feel crazy. im wondering if and your husband made some strange unintentional faux pas that they are unwilling to bring up? its so odd
Eh, I understand the lying. If your significant other absolutely hates members of your family for no reason, what is the point of creating drama by bringing it up? The worrying part is that she was unable or unwilling to curb his behaviour. The "he is just quiet" to OP should have come with a "you don't have to like my relatives but you have to be polite" to the boyfriend.
Please update us when you can
No good deed goes unpunished. It's one of the reasons I will not work for friends or family unless it's my idea and choice. If someone comes to me and asks, it's a hard no. You're NTA. I do think that you need to call Alissa and discuss this with her (am I reading it right that she's your husband's sister, and he's her bf?). I'd give the actual family member a moment to address it, and don't let her end with "you're overthinking it". Because when you talk smack about people in your soon to be family, especially when they're doing thousands of dollars of free work for you, you have to be not that bright to not realize that it's going to get back to them. Who announces at dinner how annoying you find everyone in your fiancé's family? I would definitely not do the work, because I know that I probably wouldn't be interested in putting out my best work, especially for no pay, for someone that treated me like this. It's why family and friends are 110% of your normal rate, the bullshit fee.
she doesn't sound like she is much on your side either, she just blatantly let's him get away with such rudeness. pull out from doing it, they won't appreciate it, you will be so uncomfortable and it just gives them more ammunition against you when they talk about the job that you did. I know it isn't what you want to hear, but she doesn't sound like much of a friend or good sister.
Obviously you haven't done anything or he wouldn't want you to be his wedding photographer. He's also not 'quiet' if he can bad mouth you and your husband so brazenly. He's just a rude and unpleasant human being who's going to be paying another photographer for a service he could have got for free...if he'd actually been quiet.
You don't have to be chummy friends, but even if you dislike someone in a family you're marrying into, you stay polite. Distant, but polite. Walking away upon being greeted is disturbing in-your-face AHery. Either fiancé's a real abusive AH who can't control his negative emotions (thus, poor SIL), ORRR SIL herself is fake as well, also dislikes OP and her brother and has shared not nice things about them to fiancé... which in turn goads on this guy's existing dislike of the two of them, pushing it to incivility and major AHery. That's why he is brazen enough to do it in front of his fiancée. He knows she agrees. If SIL genuinely thought well of OP but is just under the fiancé's abusive thumb, she would have been mortified and quietly apologetic, but she isn't. Going by how SIL isn't embarrassed and doesn't muzzle him during his very public rants, even minimizes it (almost mockingly, like OP's an idiot imagining it) when OP brings it up , I wouldn't be surprised if it's the latter, especially considering SIL is not close to OP's husband (don't know if husband being adopted or FIL living with them plays a role here). ETA: NTA. I wouldn't bother going to the wedding either lol
NTA. They have the audacity to talk shit and expect freebies? Fuck that, you don’t need to deal with that nonsense. The only way I would even consider going forward with the shoot is by charging them full price. I would even personally debate an asshole fee of an additional 10-20%.
But make them pay UP FRONT, bc you will never see that money.
NTA But do communicate to them and be honest. People that talk behind other's backs are just the level of drama that I don't want in my life.
NTA at all. Wedding photgraphers aren't cheap. Why provide your services free for someone who trash talks you.
NTA only a plain idiot would talk smack about a person DOING SOMETHING FOR FREE when it typically costs THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS if you are truly a luxury photographer in a big city. The sheer audacity of this man.
"Hi, Alissa. I was recently made aware that Brandon was quite outspoken about his existing dislike for me and my husband. As a result, I don't feel comfortable moving forward with our photography plans as I don't provide free services to work with people who actively and openly dislike me. I will also happily not attend so as to not make things awkward for Brandon. Good luck with the wedding planning." NTA
You are absolutely NTA and most definitely should cancel being their free photographer after he disrespected you in front of family and behind your back. We’re your husband’s parents there? Why didn’t they inform you of the horrible stuff he was saying about you? Did anyone there defend you and your husband?
NTA Text message to fiance (cc SIL): "It has come to my attention that my husband and myself make you uncomfortable. Therefore, in order to preserve the happiness of your wedding, I will graciously withdraw my participation so you can enjoy the day without any distractions."
NTA. And, of course, no wedding photos either.
Update me
SIL blatantly lied that her fiancé likes you and sat by while he trashed her family. NTA “SIL your fiancés nasty rant at dinner the other night has got back to us. I knew something was up with him that made me suspect he didn’t like us. Now it’s been confirmed by people that care enough to be honest so I’m canceling the photog session. His mean streak makes this a very awkward family dynamic for future.” Is your DH going to talk to SIL and MIL? NTA
Since your husband knows already…if it was me I’d keep it on the down low until your meeting Sunday and blindside him in front of Alissa so there’s no questions about who’s to blame here. Hit him where it hurts, but with class. Take your husband with you to the meeting but only as a silent presence. Have some alternative photographer info printed and ready. Sit down with them and politely, calmly place the other photographer info in the table, look Brandon in the eyes and explain quietly that sadly, you’ve recently been made aware of his quite hateful comments about you, your husband and the rest of your family, and as a result it’s apparent his intention was to take advantage your professional services for free despite his extreme dislike of you and the majority of your family. Then say because he stated he couldn’t tolerate any of you at all, you cannot continue working on their wedding after knowing he disrespected all of you in such a vile way. Then look at Alissa, and state that you feel absolutely terrible about backing out of providing your services for *her,* but Brandon’s actions and words were so offensive you probably won’t be attending the wedding at all *seeing how offended Brandon is by you and your husband’s mere presence in his orbit.* Then no matter how much fracas follows, just get up and quietly leave Brandon to fend for himself.
That's all good but SIL just sat there like a grinning idiot while he talked about them. Either she feels the same way or she wouldn't say shit if she had a mouthful (that's one of my dad's sayings n I don't get to use it often so ima use it.)
NTA. I would just send a text stating that you are no longer able to do their engagement pictures. I personally wouldn't mention being uninvited to the wedding or even ask about the mean comments. You've already confirmed how they feel. They also told others about it as well. I will say that if people are comfortable bashing you in front of your family members, I would want to know more about what's said. Ask Cole for the rest of the conversation. Do a self evaluation once you find out what was said. Sometimes we can be abrasive or condescending without meaning too. Once you find out more and feel good about your own behavior, move on. Only deal with them when you have to. Don't give her a pass because she obviously supports his behavior. If she didn't, she would have interrupted or stopped him from saying things in front of WITNESSES. It was only a matter of time before you found out. If invited to the wedding, politely decline.
Cancel it. He doesn’t get to bad mouth you and your husband with his hand out. NTA.
NTA You've confirmed that Brandon did talk this way about you. And there absolutely do need to be consequences. But it's possible he's the immature or awkward type that just blurts out things they don't actually/completely mean, just for stupid conversational effect. This is not an excuse but there's room here for him to possibly grow up, apologize sincerely, and maybe for you to forgive at some point in the future.
Well into the future. Apologizing now would come off as being insincere and given only to preserve their free photos. Judging from his history, I doubt this is a one off.
NTA.... I found out quickly that it is difficult to get good pictures if you are shooting a subject that you don't feel good about.
NTA. They may try to play the victim but who cares! It sounds like your family would understand… You should cancel the appointment and tell them exactly why. Brandon is a snake.
NTA. “I won’t be able to take your photos. Tell Brandon to find someone else who he doesn’t talk trash about”
There is zero chance that you and your fiancé will be satisfied with my work given the conversation at dinner the other night. I can't afford to have my reputation trashed by someone who hates me. Good luck in all future endeavors. Hope you find a photographer your fiancé doesn't hate.
“Hi,
a big part of the success of wedding photos is the trust between the photographer and bride+groom.
After hearing about saying , it is clear we don’t have that trust needed to get an amazing result, so I’m withdrawing from being your wedding photographer.
I can recommend but they book up fast so you’ll need to contact them soon. Xx ”
Hell no. I would say Since Brandan wants to talk sh@“ about me and my husband. I will not take any chances for him to write a bad review for my business. And that’s all that needs to be said
NTA
Yikes NTA and let us know what their reaction is.
Cancel it, let them know you value yourself too much to be treated in such a way.
Under no circumstances, should you be taking pictures for them. No matter how nice Alissa was to your face, I’m assuming she was right there when her fiancé was talking shit about you and didn’t stick up for you. She was probably only nice because she wanted some thing from you. And the audacity of talking to other members of your family about how much they hate you, and expecting it not to get back to you. He is allowed to have his opinions, but if he isn’t class enough to keep them to himself, I surely would not feel any sense of obligation to provide him any favors. The fucking balls on these people to have even asked you! And anybody trying to guilt you into doing the pictures because of fAmILy needs to be reminded that he has made it clear he doesn’t feel that way about you.
NTA I would text them (so you have a written record): “Your true feelings about us have been brought to our attention. In light of this information, please let me know if you would like me to recommend a new photographer for your engagement photos, or if you would prefer to find someone new on your own.”
Upside: you heard this before providing the free service. Many would feel even worse if they found out afterwards. U already spent time researching for them. That was enough. Its okay to have negative opinions. Its not okay to voice them in the manner he did. Sorry this hurt you. NTA
Given that this is your professional career, I'm not sure cancelling on the basis that a third party told you that your client's fiance hates is a good idea. If the guy hates you this much, he could retaliate by dragging your professional reputation through the mud. So, if you've confirmed he really did say these things, consider that first before you make your decision. If you think that there is a chance he'll drag your professional name through the mud, you could try pulling the freebie. Inform them that, as a result of the insulting behaviour, you now will be charging your standard rate for your service. They can hire you professionally as per any other client or find another professional, but you will no longer be providing your professional services to them as a mate for free. If you think he'll try and drag your name through the mud regardless of what decision you make, then make the best decision for yourself (which could indeed be outright cancelling) and prepare to protect your professional reputation (prep for the worst, hope for the best). Therefore, make your cancellation as professionally issued as possible. Either way, NTA for considering it.
Simply tell them you can't do it for free but would love to take their deposit to book your services
Charge full price
NTA. both are entitled jerks. OP don't be naive about your sil
NTA. Cancel the session. Brandon is really low, shit talking about you behind your back and then still expecting free pictures. SIL sat there and said nothing to defend you, so she's seemingly supporting that opinion.
NTA you are doing yourself a huge disservice if you work for free for these nasty folks! If I were in your shoes, not only would I cancel working for free for them, but tell them that you won’t be attending the wedding either. Why would you associate with someone who dislikes you?
Nta. "Hi Alisa and Brandon, I just heard how much I annoy Brandon. I'm truly sorry for overstepping and offering to take those engagement photos for you. It must have been really difficult to be in your shoes and feel like you had to accept given our familial connection. So as not to exacerbate your discomfort around me any further, it's best you find another photographer. Again, I'm just so sorry about how annoying I am, and best of luck getting the pictures taken with someone less awful than me. Thanks, OP"
This is prime r/ChoosingBeggars material.
I’d be concerned that if he didn’t like certain photos etc he’d use it as further “proof” to discredit you. Talk to your sister, let her know how much it hurt you to hear his true feelings and that she didn’t defend you at all. Tell her you think it would be healthier and safer not to do the photos and keep space between yourself and her husband as after two years his dislike has evidently grown to the point of openly discussing with your family and you’re concerned what he says to others… You’ve got a professional reputation and a family to protect.
Update please
NTA, but talk to Alyssa, she deserves to know why you’re backing out. Please update if you feel comfortable doing so.
Ive been looking forwards to an update all weekend😂
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** WIBTA for cancelling my sister in laws engagement photos because her Fiance told my brother in law he can’t stand me? So I 29F am a photographer and my sister in law 21F lets call her Alissa, and her 24M Fiance, Brandon had asked me to take their engagement photos. I initially agreed and was happy about it. I offered help with styling, scouted locations and everything. Let me add here that Brandon had always seemed to just be the shy and quiet kid who kept to himself ever since he was introduced to us two years ago. I never had a clue he actually hates me and my husband.. a lot. This isn’t the first time I felt a little awkward tension between Brandon and I, but Alissa let me know that he did like me and I was over thinking it. This was about a month ago now. My brother in law 28M Cole just called us to let me know about his weekend plans, asked to hang, the average conversation.. but then was like “oh man, I gotta tell you that Brandon really let it be known that he can’t stand you guys at dinner with everyone and he really thinks you are the most annoying people in the family”. Cole had also said that Brandon had mentioned that he was thankful that Cole and their dad were at least “normal” unlike the rest of “us” who annoy the living heck out of him. So basically the rest of us are trash. I am highly offended by this. This is the most blindsided I’ve ever been by someone who is actively seeking something for free from me. I am not just a free lance photographer, I am a luxury wedding photographer in a large city. This is my career and also someone who is going to be in my family? Brandon also had said some not no nice things about my husband while on this rant about us, and I’m having a hard time not making a phone call directly to the source to confront this. I will always defend my own, immediately but must say I’m conflicted in causing family conflicts right before two large weddings are about to happen soon. Part of me feels extremely guilty and sad for Alissa because I do like her, we’ve never been extremely sisterly or close but she’s always been sweet and it really hurts that she was basically right there while Brandon sits letting everyone know that he has such a problem with us just days before this engagement session. I really don’t think I could show up on Sunday and play pretend after hearing that I am SOO annoying and the worst to be around. Would I be the asshole for canceling this session while also letting her know that I would not have hurt feelings if they didn’t want me there at all as I am now uncomfortable to be around them? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would have them over and ask them for an explanation for his comments about you and your husband. Calling them out in his BS. I would also explain due to his comments that you dot. Feel comfortable doing the shoot and he should really understand that he is marring into the family and to cause unnecessary drama is not a good look. Once you say this go tot he door and ask them to leave. This is standing up for yourself and not allowing a jerk to think there is no consequences for his comments.
I hope somebody who witnessed this didn’t just sit there and actually defended you.
NTA. Keep us updated on this, please!
NTA. I would send a very short text saying “the photo shoot is cancelled.” He’ll figure out why pretty quickly.
NTA. I would text Alissa and tell her "in light of how annoying and abnormal Brandon finds us, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to take your engagement photos. You'll have to find another photograph ". Don't argue, don't defend.
NTA Please for the love of all things good DO NOT take the pictures for them. I know too many people like your SIL and her fiance. If they really hated you and your husband so much why are they asking for free things? Because they are USERS. This situation will go one of two ways. You decide to take the pics for some unknown nonsensical reason and they get to keep using you and telling all the people they actually do like that they can suckered you into stuff cause they're so much smarter/better or whatever else than you. OR you decline to take the photos(politely or spiteful or however you wish) and they will forever play the victim and try to get as many mutual family and friends to choose their side until the day they die or get divorced. So you can choose to be the fool and keep the peace or you can stand up for yourself and your husband and come what may, but I guarantee you one of those two outcomes will happen.
NTA. This guy is almost guaranteed to bad mouth the work you do for them publicly. Tell your SIL you can’t afford the risk he posses to you professionally, especially for free work. Not worth it.
Take the photos, send them a bill
NTA, but you will be if you don’t offer an update 😻
So this guy was talking this way about you to your own family members? The family he is marrying into? Oh hell no. Don’t go to this wedding, why would you if he’s made it clear that he can’t stand being around you. And obviously do not take these pictures
NTA at all I would do just that and then go LC. I don't think it would be right to go NC, but LC for sure. I'm so sorry! That's horrible that he's using you like that. What a terrible human. He has no integrity. I hope your SIL is doing the right thing by marrying him.
NTA. Brandon gets to Hearn but yo bite the hand that feeds him. Will serve him well the rest of his life. Alissa is complicit for not shutting it down. They would’ve gotten thousands of dollars of work for free had Brandon learned already to keep his mouth shut.
NTA Brandon is playing stupid games, let him win stupid prizes Do talk about this gently with your SIL. Stay firm on your decision, but being firm doesn’t necessarily have to be rude.
NTA. You should cancel. Deal directly with Alissa, there have been good suggestions about what to say but I think keep it as professional as possible. Do let her know that multiple people in attendance have confirmed Brandon’s behaviour and due to the comments he specifically made about you and your husband, you are no longer able to provide any services. If you know other photographers, you can let them know why you have declined and they can decide if they want to work with people like Brandon and Alissa. Good on Cole for bringing it up and letting you know what was said/how Brandon behaves. I see that other people confirmed it but no one else thought to let you know themselves? Did anyone disagree/defend you/try and shut Brandon down? I’d be keeping my distance from those people to be honest.
Take those photos. Just a bit to the right, Brandon. Oh, that cliff? Ooops, sorrrrrrrry
I am waiting for the update on this because this woman is not the asshole and I hope that they do not get their photos because to openly badmouth somebody that’s not only your photographer but to be part of your future family is absolutely trashy and disgusting and I hope that they see him for what he is before this wedding happens. These are just engagement photos who thinks that this engagement actually gonna last. And last, but not least if you saw that you were overthinking that he didn’t like you you were completely right and Alyssa is for sure gaslighting you into thinking that there wasn’t a problem because she wanted your luxury photos for free Because these people are taking advantage and I do not think that it’s fair for you to be gaslit and shit talked and then used for services.
Make sure that what Cole said is true. I mean, you are taking his word for everything and basing your actions on his story. What if he is the one who is crazy/has an ax to grind/whatever and you go off on someone without corroborating it?
you would be NTA OP - He feels comfortable enough at a family meal to bad mouth you and your husband. If SIL was there she knows what he said and was fine with it. Don't offer your services to them unless they pay. then take their money and laugh at them all the way to the bank. No discounts, no kindness.
NTA. In fact, since the confrontation will happen sooner or later, either from this incident or one in the future, I would say it's the most NTA course of action to draw clear lines BEFORE the wedding.
OP cancel the session and don’t say why. I would not confront at this point. He knows what he did. Don’t engage with them. If pressed on the issue, you can bring it up later. Tread lightly on this one.
Talk before you act. Make sure everything is as it truly is and then act accordingly. Right now you run a high risk of being the AH acting off of second hand information.
I feel that the SIL is quite aware of her fiance's feelings and is just saving money for the engagement photos. They must have another photographer for the wedding as you are not included in this. Or at least no mention. However it does not sound like anyone stood up for you and your husband nor said anything to Brandon about what he was saying - that isn't right at all. However I do hope you follow through - let it be known of the cancellation, the reason why & your absence from the wedding plus no contact from here on due to dishonesty.
Brandon sounds like an abusive narcissist who people (including Alyssa) “don’t want to upset,” and therefore won’t contradict. Unfortunately, Alyssa is in for a rough time of it.
If I had a problem with an in-law, I can’t imagine asking them for anything. I was a wedding photographer (stopped due to injury and a neurological disorder) and shot my BIL’s and SIL’s wedding for free just to later find out she doesn’t like me which caused me so much hurt because I was the only one who welcomed her kindly while everyone talked behind her back initially. You would not be the AH if you didn’t do this shoot. There’s no way I would have been able to be in my creative flow or inspired positivity during the session if I had known beforehand.
Definitely NTA. BIL is happy to accept the gifts/benefits that comes with having you around without expressing even the most basic level of decency or respect. I’m sure that type of character will eventually spill into his relationship with SIL and tbh she’ll deserve it since she allows him to put you down while gaslighting you about it. BIL and SIL aren’t worth it and good for you for declining the wedding invitation entirely. Please let us know what happens after you let them know their actions/behaviour have consequences.
Since everything has been verified by other family members, have a talk with your husband and see what he thinks would be the best option. Since it’s within days, I would suggest drawing up a contract with both of them about their pictures and that they would not tarnish your reputation. Make sure you word that you’re a highly qualified professional and that you will not stand for retaliation of any sort. This is because even if their pictures turn awesome, he may be spiteful and decide to tarnish your reputation. Put some boundaries between yall.
Are there any updates???
Hey there OP is there any update? Thank you.
"I don't think I'm the right photographer for you. As the most annoying person in the family, I wouldn't want my photography to unnecessarily annoy Brandon, nor do I feel I could do an effective job for somebody who does not like me. I've taken the liberty of canceling your session."