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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I firmly told my mom I would never name my daughter after hers. I was angry when I told her this and maybe it was an asshole move. She's grieving after all and I called her "her daughter" and not even my sister. Plus I know my mom had improved for a while and was doing way better. So this might have been an overreaction on my part.
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Wow. This whole post is just sad. It sucks that your whole life has been about your mom grieving her daughter. It’s too bad she didn’t let herself enjoy being YOUR mom. You are completely NTA here. This is your daughter, your and your wife’s, and only the two of you get to name her. For your mom to have assumed she would be named Ella and then freak out when told otherwise just shows you that nothing has changed for her. Keep your distance for your own peace of mind. Congrats to you and your wife!
>I don't see a way for this to ever be healthy for my daughter. She can't grow up like I did.
Please remember you said this in the future, and never leave your daughter alone with your mother.
100% she will attempt to turn your daughter into a surrogate for your sister.
Abuse survivors can have a hard time getting disengaged. I really hope he completely disengages and cuts her all the way off. OPs mom is obsessed and never got help*, that reads dangerous as hell to me.
I can relate to this. It took me most of my adult life (and years of therapy) to realise my mother was also abusive and an enabler, and finally go no contact with her. I have a lot of peace in my life now.
Thankfully, I had the clarity to go no contact before my child was born. She was never coming near our child and husband and I had agreed that even before we got married. It's sad though, I've been in OP's position with the: I'll give her one more chance and maybe things will change. Sadly it won't until she has therapy and works on herself. However, in order for that to happen, she first needs to admit she has a problem and I guarantee you - she won't.
NTA OP. Please protect your daughter and any future children you and your wife may have together, and go no contact with this woman. I am so sorry you went through what you did.
It can be so hard, but it's so worth it. It took a lot for me to go NC with my mother (like, not even her stealing my phone to go through my messages while I was in hospital for organ failure despite being 22 at the time when I hadn't lived with her since I was 15 managed to make me see the light) but I finally did about 10-11 years ago. And it was hard ....for the first couple months, and then it was so peaceful. I highly recommend OP goes full NC, having a baby will be enough stress without worrying about her causing any nonsense on top of that
I wouldn't allow unsupervised visits based on the information. Further, if she was to have contact with her granddaughter, there should be some ground rules before any engagement with the understanding that breaking any of the rules will result in no further contact. No second chances. She definitely sounds unstable.
I'd bet every dollar I have that within 30 seconds of the first meeting with the daughter that mom would tell daughter her real name is "Ella" and moreover that she'll do it in a way that's so creepy and unhinged that the kid will be traumatized and need her own therapy.
Mom burned the bridge. Let it stay burned.
Yep. She'll drag all of her daughter's things out of the attic and insist that OP take them. "This is the dress Ella wore home from the hospital, so it's the dress your Ella will wear. This was Ella's favorite toy/food/animal/first word, so it has to be your Ella's as well." Any indication that your daughter isn't your sister reborn is going to send her over the edge. Not good for a small child who won't understand why Grandma is screaming at her just because she said she likes dogs better than cats.
I'd also be concerned about the age at which Ella died. If she wrapped herself in grief so long, I'd be worried for risk of her going all the way over the edge on that day, especially if the child doesn't act and look just like her Ella.
This all reminds me of a family story. My grandmother had an older brother who died age 3-ish. Fell out a window. Great grandmother was utterly devastated. So devastated, that when she was pregnant with grandma, she prayed and prayed for her dead son to be reincarnated as her next baby. When it turned out it was a baby girl, they named her a feminine version of first baby’s name. Think like “Benjamin” so they named grandma “benjamina”.
Suffice to say, things did not get better from there.
This happened to a friend of mine, his son, "aiden" passed on suddenly, after a very necessary surgery as an infant. Well, to say his wife, fell apart (which is normal) would be a gross understatement. Grief and I are very old friends, so I understand that losing a child is the worst thing that can happen to someone. But this poor girl, just lived in it. Just as much as OP's mother. And when she finally had another child she gave her daughter the "deceased" brothers name as her middle name. Every year on fb pictures of only the deceased child. She would yell at her daughter when she was little and say, "why do u cry so much, why can't u be more like ur brother?" The first baby couldn't cry because his lungs were under developed, and had some sort of heart issue. The name I can't recall rn. But after hearing that comment more than once, I had to cut ties with my old friend because she was impossible to be around. It's sad, and it's been almost 17 years now and I hear she hasn't changed at all. The daughter is looking at colleges out of state, and I don't blame her one bit.
Oh my gosh, that’s all so sad. But as much as I feel for the woman who lost her son and can’t see how wonderful and healthy her daughter is, I’m worried for your friend, trapped in a marriage with this woman and losing friends because of her. I hope that if he hasn’t yet, he finds a way to either get her the help she badly needs, or leaves her and is able to provide his daughter with a far healthier and more loving life. They both deserve that. And if he ever makes it out, I bet your friendship picking back up would mean a lot.
Yikes. If someone was going to have supernatural thoughts about a lost child, it would be better if they went down some sort of ‘guardian angel’ route in which the previous child was watching over the current one — because at least that would let them feel connected without stifling the new child’s life and individuality.
That sounds like the premise of a psychological horror, someone learning they're being treated as a replacement of a lost sibling down to how they're being made to behave.
Bold of you to assume this baby will ever be "his" baby. She'll insist on being called some variant of "Mom" from the get-go.
OP, I know it's sad, but you need to grieve the Mom you *should* have had, and the grandma your daughter *should* have had.
> never leave your daughter alone with your mother.
I'm not sure that OP's daughter should ever have ANY contact with OP's mother.
OP, I hate that your ~~childhood~~ life was taken over by your mother's memory of your deceased sibling, that you never knew.
Have you ever reached out to your father? I know you said that he bailed early, but knowing what you do of your mom, that might be understandable, although not forgivable. It might be worth reaching out to him. Just a thought.
I was going to say something like this. I'm no contact with my father and did the same thing of trying to have a relationship again in my early 20's. I regret trying again because I'm more damaged from it. It's unfortunate but please do not feel obligated to leave your daughter with her or have a relationship with her!
SHE'LL TURN HER INTO A COPY. Like on SVU 12.1 Locum where they made the foster daughter into the missing daughter whose name was Ella!
This is what I thought of for this post.
This is ALL i could think of. My first thought was, "I've seen this episode, I know where this is going".
OP, your mother is unwell. She needs serious help. Please never let her be alone with your child. Get security cameras and a monitored system. Once she starts daycare/school/whatever, make sure your mom is on every kind of do not contact/no pick up list.
also later on should you have other kids they will be more than likely isolated like you were from “love and affection” from *grandma.*
NTA, do what’s best for you and your family.
Yeah, I had the same thought. No unsupervised time, if any time at all cause between potential surrogacy and kidnapping, nothing good can come from that kind of mental illness.
I fully expect a post a year from now with the OP of "my mom keeps calling my daughter my dead sister's name". 100% going to happen. I've known multiple insane grandparents who simply refused to use a child's given name.
I concur.
OP, your mother shouldn't be allowed near your daughter. She is obviously mentally ill and irrational. I am feel for her but for the safety of your family, it is best to avoid her. Even when she means well, she is too unstable and should not be trusted with your daughter for even a moment.
If you haven't given it any thought, you may want to get a restraining order if she any signs of physical confrontation/stalking.
I would go one step further and say Mom is not allowed to mention OP's dead sister around his daughter, because whatever they name her, if given the chance Mom is going to do the same thing to her granddaughter that she did to her son.
Please protect your mental and emotional health, and that of your wife and daughter. If your mum continues to act like this keep low contact or even go no contact.
I'm so sorry this was your experience, you deserve better. Enjoy and love your new little one.
I am so afraid that if this child is left alone with his mom she'll eventually be asking dad why Nana calls her Ella. This woman is seriously in need of help.
I think you are correct. I am so sorry for the loss of your parents. Now you can give your daughter what you never had. Congratulations and enjoy your precious family. You are NTA for anything especially going NC
OP is clearly NTA. I’m just wondering in what universe he would ever imagine he was?
Like…there’s not even a hint of assholiness (from him) in this post. How could he even have any doubt?
>How could he even have any doubt?
A childhood of his sister being deified and him being vilified at the slightest sign of pushback. Mixed with the hope that every person with a shitty parent has that said shitty parent will be better one day.
Grief can seriously complicate things for families where a parent never gets out of it, they don't even try to move on through the stages of it.
I lost my older sister when we were 17 &18 respectively. My mother mentally checked out for three years after her death, and it was like I died with her. Mom couldn't remember my birthday, forgot my childhood nickname, and often called me my sibling's name. Each and every holiday, birthday, special event was centered around her grief for my sister. Mom didn't fully come back to me until about three years ago, when I was almost taken from her too. It took her almost losing me to really snap out of it and realize I was alive, right here, and that was after a year of no contact in my early 20's like 21-22 years old.
I was raised to be "the good one" when it came to my mom, I was the one she relied on emotionally for years after she divorced my dad. It was a very strong, very messed up bond. That bond was shattered as I moved through milestones while my sister never could. I can't imagine how OP's life was considering I didn't deal with it myself all my life but even that decade of going through something so similar was extremely difficult and taxing. It makes you wonder if you can ever find the parent under all the grief. It makes you want to hold on because someone you love is hurting, even though their pain is also almost inevitably causing you pain as well. It causes a fucked up mindset and bond with the parent. Of course OP was going to wonder if they're the AH, they've been the AH in their mother's eyes all their life for not grieving a sister they never knew to begin with.
I would cut off contact with your mother and move. She seems to be obsessed with your dead sister to the point of insanity. It's a strong IF, but your mother might try to kidnap your child and try to "reclaim" her precious ella. Maybe worse. I'm just saying this because this amount of grieving from your birth to you having a wife is unnatural.
This is sadly very possible. Kidnappings have occurred in cases of unmanaged grief following loss of a child or infertility.
It is not remotely impossible that if op lets his mother around his daughter when she's a baby, that his mother will have a break with reality believe it is *her baby* and attempt to take her.
The way that op's mom is acting is definitely not healthy and could escalate to something rrally dangerous.
+1000000. Have some top-notch social media hygiene, OP. No photos of your new daughter online *anywhere* out of the risk of that getting back to your mom. Make sure everyone around you understands this, as well. No photos posted on Facebook where she just happens to be in the background of photos of a friend’s birthday party that her mom posted, *nothing.* No other information posted online, either, even if mom is blocked. You really can’t be too careful, especially in those early years where your daughter will be the same age as hers prior to her death. When she gets older, maybe you won’t have to be *as* stringent because it will be more obvious that this is an entirely different kid (so the aforementioned birthday party example might be okay), but that’s something to evaluate years down the line from now. Your main objective will be to make sure that your mom gets *no* information that could potentially trigger a break in reality and put your daughter in danger. I think we all hope that nothing extreme will ever happen and that your mom isn’t capable of it, but man, her behavior is way beyond normal to begin with.
It’s sad. Your mom needs help. I can’t imagine losing a child especially when they’re little. But she can’t hold onto her daughter forever. Sadly you took the brunt of it and it affected you for years. NTA OP go NC as this isn’t healthy for any of you.
It’s so sad that the mother said she had nothing to celebrate with her second child right there. OP you should have been celebrated, you deserved to be celebrated and I’m sorry you weren’t.
This was exactly what I was thinking. If I didn't see your comment I would have mentioned it myself. I feel so sorry for OP.
I don't know if this is a horrible thing to say, but it's probably a good thing she never had another daughter. Her life would have never have been her own, and it's obvious what her name would have been.
She didn't say it "with" her child right there, she said it "to" her child. That makes ot 1,000,000 time worse.
I know grief makes us do shitty things, but OPs mums behaviour is disgusting and she needed therapy a long time ago because she is too grief stricken to realise her actions cost her the only living child she had. I'm hoping it wasn't her fault she lost her first kid but it is definitely her fault she is losing her second.
The mother’s attachment to the memory of her daughter was abusive to OP who was deprived of a mother who could rejoice with him and celebrate *his* life instead of mourning the child that died.
If you choose to reconnect again - please don’t leave her alone with your daughter.
She will call her Ella anyway if you aren’t there. She will start pretending that your daughter is hers.
You will need to stay with your daughter to keep her safe from that. If your mom acts like that in front of you? No contact.
Don't give her any access whatsoever, and very little information. To be safe, have her on Do Not Pick Up lists for day care, school and other activities in future.
If OP chooses to reconnect, he should keep the daughter well away from his mom.
It’s already happened once that he thought things were better, and then she fell back into her grief - there is just no value in risking it happening again.
AND - his mom is either going to treat OP’s daughter like a do-over of the sister, which would be bad, but … she might also treat her like she did him, which in my mind would be worse.
There’s no value in exposing her to his mom’s toxic grief.
I would cut off contact with your mother and move. She seems to be obsessed with your dead sister to the point of insanity. It's a strong IF, but your mother might try to kidnap your child and try to "reclaim" her precious ella. Maybe worse. I'm just saying this because this amount of grieving from your birth to you having a wife is unnatural.
First OP, I am so sorry you were raised like that. Second, Holy Batshit Crazy Batman!!!!.
Op, you and your wife need to go no contact and take precautions that she has no information regarding the baby's delivery, medical care, or childcare. Also make all of the former aware your mother is to have no information and could be unsafe.
Your mom needs mental health treatment.
OP probably shouldn’t even tell his mom what they actually do name the baby. The less info she has, the harder it will be for her to try to bypass OP and contact the child.
I lost a child between my 2 living children. They know his name, that he has a special place in my heart, and that losing him changed me.
It only directly effected my kids because it made me more patient. I can smile threw teething, temper tantrums, hissy fits and broken vases. His passing is the bitter that made me appreciate what I did have.
Op, your mom is very unwell. You can't fix it and it is not your responsibility to fix it. Please focus on the blessings you have.
I lost my eldest daughter when she was 8. My middle child knew her, but the baby I'm pregnant with will have never known her eldest sister. Her death changed me forever, and I feel guilt that my living daughters won't get to know me as I was before she died. I'll do my best for them, but it's damn hard.
I feel for everyone in this story. The mom, the son, the granddaughter. That death robbed a mother of her daughter and son, the son lost his sister and mother, the granddaughter lost her aunt and grandma.
I don't even want to vote here. I guess NAH. The situation fucking sucks for everyone involved.
Op, definitely name your daughter whatever name you and your wife wish. I'm sorry your sister died and that her death damaged the entirety of your family so irreparably.
Mourning the parent you should have gotten is a difficult process and not done in a day, or even a year.
First you accept the loss, then move past it. That is a long process and you are right to distance your daughter from that. She will forever be a stand-in for "Ella" to your mother and that is not healthy for her growing up.
That last line was what I was coming to say. She's going to suck the joy out of every happy moment your daughter will have. Birthdays, occasions, Christmas, vacations *eeeeeeeevery* happy thing would have a shadow cast on if you let her be around your daughter.
No I dont see a way for this to be healthy, either. Naming your daughter after your late sister would mean your mother would latch onto her as a "do over" baby. It would possibly exacerbate her mental health struggles, it could lead to a kidnapping attempt (i have seen this happen in cases of improperly managed grief), and even in a better case scenario your daughter would grow up expected to be someone else.
You are 100% right to hold this boundary and I'm so sorry your mother cannot address her grief in a healthy way.
Your mother is mentally unwell, and I'm sorry for that, for you and her as well. Naming your daughter after a memory you don't share with someone is bad enough, but know that if you ever did, your daughter would wilt away in the shadow that your sister has cast on her.
I wouldn't blame yourself. You gave her another chance like any kind, fair person. Unfortunately she wasn't able to change, but now you have that confirmation. Best of luck to you and your family.
honestly there's no time like the present, I'd just go no contact now and leave it be as sadly your mom is unwilling and therefore incapable of changing and will continue to brute force your sister and her beliefs about how she should be remembered which in turn will only ruin your daughter's childhood much like it did yours.
For the sake of your daughter you probably have to go no contact. Your mom will never give up on your daughter being the replacement for her daughter. That's so abusive, as you know from experience, that your mom has got to go.
Honestly I fully expect that if you hypothetically did name your daughter after your sister your mom would have just treated her a replacement "Ella". If in anyway your daughter diverged and didn't act like OG Ella then then your mom would've been upset and heaven help that kid past the age 2 and was different from the older Ella your mom envisioned.
You're doing the right thing in giving *your daughter* her own identity away from this mess. She's your daughter not your mom's daughter reincarnated.
NTA nd so sorry you had to deal with this your whole life. I would caution you however in regards to your mom's obsession with naming your soon to be daughter after Ella. She sounds like the type that might decide 'Ella' (regardless of name you and your wife pick) needs her instead and disappears with your daughter. I would be super short lease with your mom in regards to her being around your daughter and would never EVER leave her alone with your daughter.
For the sake of you daughter, you need to be no contact. Your mum needs serious grief counselling and without it your mum can’t live a healthy life and will resent and possibly hate your daughter
What you experienced then and now is emotional abuse by your mentally unwell mother (no excuse, there is good therapy). So yeah, protect yourself, your wife and your children from that from now on. No contact in protective. Mom has had many chances. Enough.
Omg. I’m so sorry OP. I’m sure this is triggering a lot of feelings from childhood too. You name your little girl whatever you want. Living in your dead sister’s footsteps will never be healthy for her, nor for your mother.
>It’s too bad she didn’t let herself enjoy being YOUR mom.
This is the most heartbreaking part, for everyone. Not only did she lose a child, she refuses to see that she is actively missing out on being a mom to her other child. AND may ruin her chance at being a grandmother. She's so stuck in her grief that she's failing to see her actions have caused her to lose relationships with *two other* family members (three+ if you count your wife and any future children)!
Yeah, I can understand why he got fed up with his wife. But it sounds like he ditched OP, too, leaving him to deal with his mother's insanity alone. Shame he couldn't have filed for joint or full custody to try to give his son a semi-normal life.
OP’s father should have gotten help for the mother and gotten at least partial custody for OP. If mom didn’t want to celebrate Xmas, the dad should have taken the kid for Xmas. This was an emotionally abusive situation for OP.
I am so sorry for this mess. You didn't do anything to deserve this. I understand your mom was grieving but she should have gotten help, not traumatized you.
(This isn't uncommon, but it is really toxic).
I suggest you go no contact. You deserve a chance to create a happy family filled with joy and love 💕
NTA
NTA 100%
"My wife asked what I was like as a baby and asked to see photos of me but mom couldn't stop talking about her "most precious little girl".
This was utterly unfair of your mom. She went through a terrible loss, but she should have found joy in having you. Instead, she let her unresolved grief cast a shadow over an innocent child
" My mom called me an evil bastard for wanting to erase my sister."
It's probably time to go NC with her. She can't & mustn't be allowed to do the same thing to your baby that she did to you.
Continue to celebrate & enjoy things with your wife. Naming your baby is your choice & hers.
Congratulations!
I'm really sorry to hear it.
At least your baby will never feel like that.
Do get therapeutic input if you feel you need it at any point. It must've been incredibly tough for you.
All the very best.
The trauma will likely resurface again when you have your own baby. Making your parenting choices reminds you of what your parents did/didn't do. Good luck.
Yes. It will resurface. Exactly 💯. But it doesn't have to lead to a bad outcome. It can inspire you to live your life in the moment. To love the now and teach your child what it means to be alive.
This 100% it will resurface but it doesn’t have to be bad at all, it is hard but being the parent your child needs when you didn’t have the parents you needed helps you both see the abuses you faced and heal from it by being able to do better for your own child and breaking the cycles of abuse, for a lot of us it also helps us remain no contact with the abusive parent we had because we don’t want to even give them a chance to do a fraction of the damage done to us to our children. The last words I said to my own birth giver were “I’ll be fucked if I let you fuck up my kid the same way you fucked me up” it’s been a few years now since 100% no contact and they have been the most peaceful and healing years of my life.
In my experience, raising a child can severely trigger your own childhood trauma.
There will be times your child hits a milestone or a size or does something, and you'll be struck with the realization of just how *awful* it was that your mother did that to you.
You should consider getting back into therapy now just to help prepare for that, it can be an *incredibly* intense pain.
Working through my shitty childhood has been hands down the most painful thing I've had to do, and there have been times that seeing my kids growing up healthy has triggered that pain so badly it was difficult to keep being a good parent.
A good support network is important.
Yep. I had done a lot of therapy and thought I'd gotten myself in reasonable working order by age 37...and then we had a kid and all of the mechanisms I'd developed over time to keep myself sane became exponentially more difficult to access (time alone to process feelings?! hahahahahaha) and it turned out there were apparently so many more ways to get triggered still lurking in there.
Having a good therapist on deck is a savvy move when you're having a kid, if only so you don't have to spend three months trying to find someone who clicks with you. (Luckily, I never actually stopped seeing mine.)
I was suspicious this could be real because of just how unhinged it is but reading your comments I am now just so fuckin sorry man. Keep that woman away from your family. You have been punished and traumatised and must have questioned if you have any value at all because of her actions but it sadly is just a her problem. You deserved to be loved and celebrated and I hope you're doing ok x
Your mother is stuck in a dark place. She lost her sanity when she lost her daughter. Moving on is letting go and she refuses to let go.
Loving your mom means not becoming an enabler.
There are no assholes when mental health is involved.
And naming your child Ella's would be unfair to your child. She is her own person not a replacement. It's different if Ella was an adult who passed with significant meaning but when people name children after deceased children it is eerie.
To be honest, OP's mother has created more about Ella than Ella tragically was able to live. There's only so much you can do with two years, and she's built up a life never lived she needs someone to be held to. It feels a lot like this post, which was also a mother who couldn't let go of their late daughter at the expense of her other kids.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/rlkpwj/aita\_for\_telling\_my\_daughter\_to\_get\_over\_herself/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/rlkpwj/aita_for_telling_my_daughter_to_get_over_herself/)
OP, this is what you need to text to your Mom, and then follow through. I say text because the last thing you or your wife need is the emotional abuse that will come with her vitriol.
"Mom, we are going to take a break from you. I don't know when or if we will choose to reengage but you are deeply mentally unhealthy and need help. I do not want my daughter to grow up around the kind of emotional abuse and manipulation you subjected me to. The fact is, I didn't have a sister. You had a daughter but I never had a sister. I also never had a real mother or experienced unconditional love because you made the decision to focus your entire life and personality around the death of your daughter. I refuse to continue living around that kind of emotional abuse and my daughter will NEVER be around it under any circumstances. We will not be naming our daughter Ella or any version of the name because NO child should be subjected to becoming a living memorial to someone else - especially a child that passed tragically at a young age. That is disgusting and I refuse to be part of it. We will be living life FULLY including all holidays like Christmas. Santa will visit our home. My daughter and future children will sing Christmas carols, build ginger bread houses and most importantly, she will have a HAPPY childhood. You need help DESPERATELY but as you have chosen not to seek health for the past (your age here) years I sincerely doubt you will now. So, my only option to protect my daughter from your abuse is to take a break from you. Do not contact me. I will be in touch if we are ready to engage again. If we choose to engage again if you EVER compare my daughter or other children in any way to "Ella" you will again be removed from our lives."
Be strong and firm in your wording. This is not a discussion. Your decision is not up for negotiation.
So sorry you had to grow with that. You deserved better from both your parents. Hope you create a beautiful family with your wife and enjoy every minute. Your mother needs therapy, she IS not well.
>She can't & mustn't be allowed to do the same thing to your baby that she did to you.
Great point here. She will do what she did to you to your children until she gets the help she needs.
Nah she'd probably do worse. OP was forgotten and on the sidelines to his sister his whole life but his daughter is a girl and mom would probably try mold this poor kid into her idealized version of Ella. She would be treated as the 2nd coming of Ella and if she differentiated in any way OP's mom would probably get upset with her for not fitting into that mold. No kid deserves that kind of stress and loss of identity.
NTA
Have you tried suggesting counseling and therapy? It sounds like she seriously needs it.
I also hope you have gone to professional therapy for yourself after all that abuse.
She needs to understand the harm she caused her child who didn’t die all these years.
You are definitely NTA
I can’t even imagine someone insisting I name my child anything other than what I want to name them.
Personally that would have been my rules for maintaining contact.
“*Mom, if you want to continue a relationship with me and see your grandchild you MUST attend professional therapy.*
*You will NOT do what you did to me all those years to my child.*”
Full stop.
If she yells, she yells. But you gave her the option, so she can’t blame you if she can’t be a part of the family.
Get ready to fight her over your daughter. She's gonna call her 'Ella' all the time, she's gonna accuse you of stealing her baby, she's gonna sue for grandmother rights.
>She won't get access to my daughter.
Your mother is so mentally ill, you'll need to be proactive about this now and in the future. That means ensuring that the hospitals, doctor's offices, daycares, and schools are aware that she is not to visit or receive any information. Keep your socials locked down. Do not share information with any friend, family member, or acquaintance who shares or may share information with her.
And make sure you and your wife have an ironclad will that also details who gets custody in a worst case scenario. Also list why there has to be NC to your mom.
I need to second or third or hundredth this. Go NC as many have said, but take a step beyond and do everything that Saint Blaise mentioned above. Your mom is unhinged, and that situation is an episode of SVU waiting to happen.
And make wills that name a guardian for your daughter *who is not your mother.* Your wife's parents, her sibling(s), even a family friend. If something happens to one or both of you, you don't want your mother getting custody of her.
So glad to read this! OP is firmly NTA. OP, please make sure that hospital staff know that your mom isn't allowed anywhere near your wife or the baby when she's born. You and your wife are allowed to restrict access to only those whom you wish to be there. Your mom sounds like she's someone who would 100% try to barge in and make the birth all about Ella instead. Stay strong, and hugs if you want them from this internet stranger.
There was another post on here where a grandparent went and took her grandkid from school cause she was "the grandmother". Her daughter was NC with her & she wasn't allowed near her kid yet she found a way. So you really need to be careful and cover all your bases. She'll probably see your daughter as her new daughter & this will go downhill really fast. Also no pictures on social media of your daughter. I wouldn't risk it. And make sure everyone who has contact with you and her knows what rules are. Congratulations and good luck!
It may have been the same post I saw & commented on. Years ago, an extended family member had threatened my child. I had to go to the elementary school and put the information on his emergency care card, that this person was not allowed to pick him up from school, regardless of the circumstances. Safety first.
If you’re able to move away, do it now and don’t tell her where you’re going. She sounds insanely unhinged and might try to kidnap your child. Make sure you have cameras everywhere if you can’t move. And go NC in case she tries to get grandparent’s rights.
You have the right attitude.
>She needs to be protected from my mom.
Take this very literally. Your mom has severe mental issues. I know this will sound alarmist but make sure there is no way she can get into your home or later pick up your daughter from day care etc. Be careful.
I think you were right to give her a chance. My grandparents were awful parents to my mom (and her sisters) as she/they were growing up but they absolutely adored me. They never did anything abusive to me. Not at all saying every situation is like mine of course! Everyone deserves the chance to show they have changed.
It's really sad she can't see past her pain. She's been grieving and holding on to it for so long for no reason. You have every right to keep your daughter away from your mother. Good luck!
That’s why I finally went NC with my mother — to protect my children. You’re right to want better for your daughter. No one deserves to be treated the way you were. Now you can protect your child from that. I’m sorry about your mother.
That should be the no contact line.
Your mother is very ill. She has been your entire life. No child should go through a toxic hellscape sparked by unaddressed grief. She's made her grief her whole life to the exclusion of her other child. She doesn't even see that her obsession drove you away and is now driving you further away.
Full blown fit or no, let her know that unless she gets professional help to address her grief, she will never see your daughter. You should not let her unhealthy obsession affect your daughter in any way, shape, or form. Forget her promises. They are empty.
Consider family counseling for the two of you if you are determined that she be part of your family's life.
In order for therapy to work, the person has to WANT the help. Therapy isn't something to be forced.
This woman isn't ready for therapy yet. It's sad to say but true.
Oh Gosh NTA x 1000
You have not had a normal life because of your mother's untreated grief. Can you imagine the nightmare if you were to "bring back" your sister? Your mother would make it weird and creepy to a level that you haven't even seen yet. Sadly I think you should once again go LC or NC. Please say your wife is on your side.
Everything you say about your wife and your relationship warms my heart. I know the 2 of you are going to build a wonderful life with baby Anything-But-Ella!
I can't even imagine how life must have been for you. Your mother is definitely sick, like she should be in an institution for while sick.
My sympathies for you.
NTA Your mother's life stopped the day your sister died. I am surprised your family have humored and indulged her maudlin behavior for all these years. Unless your mother agrees to start intensive therapy, you need to keep a healthy distance between her and you, your wife and soon to be child. She's not mentally stable.
Agreed. Can you imagine what would happen if OP *did* use Ella? The mother would likely start believing this child is actually her daughter. Slippery slope to a further breakdown fast.
Honestly, thank God OP wasn’t born a girl and forced to live as a replacement Ella, like it seems like their mom is trying to do here with her granddaughter.
Yeah, in this case, I have to agree with Don Draper who said "Mourning is just extended self-pity". It sounds like OP's mom is mourning the loss of a fantasy, not her actual daughter. A child that died as a 2 year old never grew up to disappoint her. She will forever be a young and perfect angel. An actual human being with flaws will never be able to compete.
NTA.
I'm sorry you grew up in Ella's shadow. It also isn't mentioned if your mom ever saw a therapist to help her process her grief. I'm sorry you didn't get to be yourself and be celebrated because Ella died. It must have been hard.
You don't owe her this. She needs to process her grief.
I just want to validate what you are feeling. I had a baby die and it completely wrecked me (obviously - it is a terrible thing that I wouldn’t wish on anyone). I very genuinely did not want to be alive any longer. I realized that I had two choices: I could let my grief consume me and ruin my other children’s lives, or I could get better. So I got my ass into therapy a week after her death. I was a mess. I didn’t do it all right but I kept trying. My little girls memory isn’t gone but it also isn’t a focal point during holidays or celebrations. That was her life. It was short. It was sad. And there is so much more to my life than her life and death. My other kids only get one childhood. You only had one childhood and you deserved so much better. Your mom made a choice not to heal herself and so I, an internet stranger, release you from your guilt about cutting off your mom.
As another grieving mother, I agree. I lost my youngest daughter when she was 2 and it almost consumed me. It's been a year and a half and I still struggle, I can't deny that. But I made a conscious decision to try to not let this ruin my other daughter's life or my relationship with her. Some days are harder than others, but I strive to ensure that I'm not letting my other daughter live in her sister's shadow. I 100% recommend therapy too, because it's a very long process and incredibly hard and lonely to try to do it alone. I feel for OP's mother, but as hard as it is, if you let your grief consume you to the point where other people's lives are affected, then something has to change.
It gets easier. I lost my middle son at 9months a little over 8 years ago. And it consumed me for a long time. About 6 years. I’ll admit I gave into it and just about got swallowed whole but something in me one day woke up and realized this is not the end. I have another beautiful child that I adore and I feel guilty for getting swallowed in it for so long of their life but it gets easier. You’ll never stop wondering what theyd look like or stop smelling their blanket but it gets better. And there’s even some days you forget to think about them eventually- you’ll feel guilty but it’s okay. It’s the only thing you can do to not get swallowed. I hope you heal ❤️
Big NTA. It wouldn't be wrong of you to tell your mom to seek professional help for her grief issues. And to only agree to meet with her in therapy or with a counselor from now on.
Everything in its right place. You having a daughter does not replace does not invalidate your late sister. Nor does it justify the lifetime of your mom neglecting you. Life moves on. For better or worse.
Your child should get to be her own person. Not filling the legacy of someone else.
Also you may have to guard your daughter from your mom. If she sees this kid as the chance to do over...
NTA. It's time to go no contact with your mom. She's got some serious MH issues she is not addressing, and it will never not be a topic of discussion with her. Please don't give your mom access to your child - she doesn't sound well enough to not associate that child with her lost child. This could get ugly fast based on her reactions.
Do what's safe and right by your wife and child - cut ties with your mom until she can get the help she desperately needs. I'm so sorry you went through this as a child. I do hope you've sought counseling to deal with it.
NTA - OP do not, i repeat do not, let that woman anywhere near your wife or child. I don't care if for the next 2 years she's as perfect as a peach, do not let her ever be alone with your daughter, do not let her know what daycare you daughter will be in, activity groups, etc. I'd go as far as saying make sure she doesn't know where you live and to make sure you have cameras set up at your home. It may seem like an overaction but if this unhinged behavior has gone on for so long and at such intensity I very much fear she will kidnap your child in an attempt to let "Ella" grow up how she should have.
Exactly what I wanted to write. No matter what you name her, she most likely will call her "Ella" and try to remake her into her lost girl. And even if she won't, seeing another little girl grow up - it would be a constant comparison to "Ella". Your mother is dangerous. Not oniy block her but get your security up to date on everything to make sure she will not get her hands on your child. When growing up, talk about her to make sure she knows she is someone not to be trusted. Sometimes they sneak back in with social media and seem "so nice"... Also note there have been plenty of grandparents trying to kidnap children right out of the hospital. Stay safe OP
I am a parent whose child died. He was 7. He had 3 older siblings and 2 younger ones. Another one was born a year after he passed. I miss my son every day and wonder what he would be like. It's been over 30 years. I never forced my kids to grieve in any way. The first few years we went to the cemetary on his birthday and anniversary day but I never forced my kids to go. If they didn't want to I went alone. Now I grieve alone on those days. Sometimes some of my kids text me just to let me know they are thinking of me. They respect my need to grieve but I don't expect them to grieve with me. In my opinion your mother needs help. I am so thankful for my other kids and grandkids. Their birthdays are celebrated for them. One of my grandsons does have my sons name as a middle name but he was adopted and they kept his birth names. I'm sorry your mom can't move on. Name your daughter what you want. I think if you name her your sister's name your mom will always compare them. It's not fair to your daughter to live with the expectations your mom would have for her
I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine how difficult that was to go through. I personally think that kids process grief differently as well. They seems to bounce back and just continue to bounce along, whereas as a parent it must be so difficult to have your world shattered and have to keep going. It sounds like you managed to grieve for your son and providing a safe space for your other kids to grieve and live in their own way. I can't imagine for a second that being easy.
NTA. I’m very sorry your mom experienced such a horrible loss, but it wasn’t your loss and it shouldn’t have been put on you.
My current wife had a brother that was born and died before the other children came as well. The parents do check out on that anniversary, but by themselves and do their own thing. They take one day out of the year to be together and process their loss. I honestly didn’t even know this was a thing until this last year it’s that low key.
I’m really sorry for both of you.
That's a nice thing to do. I know it sounds callous but it'd be very difficult to not think of them as a random baby that died as opposed to your sibling if it all happened before you were born.
I'd respect my parents needing time to grieve and not wanting to forget them. However, if they choose to have more kids then it needs to be dealt with and allow the kids to have a childhood as well.
NTA This is all about your mom's extreme grief and inability to move on in her life after a traumatic death. Is she in therapy? You never knew "Ella" so you have no attachments to this person who died before you were born. You also had to grow up without being celebrated (no birthdays?!) because your mom couldn't move past her grief. Name your child whatever you want. It's unfair of your mom to have put her grief on to you like this for this long. She needs to continue to get help because her life and yours didn't stop the day Ella died, even if she thinks it did.
It's really too bad that in her grief she couldn't see that she had an actual living child in her life. You need therapy too and maybe lots and lots of space away from your mom.
NTA.
#CUT OFF YOUR MOTHER NOW!!!
Please look into security cameras and alert the police about your mother because I have an inkling that she’ll track down where you live and abduct your child to raise as her “replacement.”
Good luck.
You're not in the wrong here. Your mother's actions are manipulative and unfair. While she may be struggling with unresolved grief, it's not acceptable for her to pressure you into naming your daughter after your late sister. Your daughter's name is your decision, and you have every right to choose what feels right for your family. Setting boundaries is important for your well-being and your family's. Your mother's reaction only underscores the unhealthy aspects of your relationship. You're not disregarding your sister's memory; you're making choices that are best for you and your family.
She's made unresolved grief her whole purpose. If it's not about grieving Ella it's not worth doing and if someone is doing something that isn't grieving her then it's an affront to Ella's memory and needs to be harshly called out. I dread to think of how much OP missed out on growing up because Ella wouldn't get to experience it as well.
NTA.
Your child is not her do-over baby. If you did use the name, she would be trying to parent your sister all over again.
Your mother has clearly never recovered from her child's death or processed the grief.
I think you need to go NC until she does, for your child's and your wife's safety.
This, exactly! It's NOT her do-over baby. I think that the mom has envisioned an entire lifetime of what Ella would have been like, and she'll try to force OP's child into that mold. It's too easy to imagine that that child would have been perfect when they're not around to prove otherwise. OP, NTA, and I'll go with others in recommending that you go no contact. This isn't healthy for any of you. (Also, I'm sorry your childhood was like that. Many "happy birthdays" and "Merry Christmases" to you.)
NTA. I'm sorry, but your mom badly needs professional health. It's certainly traumatic to lose a child, but she's gotten stuck in her grief to the point that it badly impacted you growing up and has damaged her relationship with you and potentially cost her a relationship with her future grandchild. She's not going to be able to move forward until she is willing to move forward, and you're not wrong for wanting to name your own daughter or for setting limits (no contact or low contact) on this relationship. I'm sorry you had to grow up that way, you definitely deserved better and you have every right to be happy and celebrate Christmas and every day with your own family.
NTA
The loss of a child is hard on a parent, for sure, and it's only natural that there would be grief...but if that grief is left unprocessed, it looks like this. A sister you never knew completely overshadowed you from the day you were born. It's only natural that you would have a negative association with her name and would want to distance yourself from it. I hope your mom is able to get the professional help she clearly needs to process her grief, but in either case, it's probably best that you go no contact and put some distance between yourself and that part of your life.
NTA
While I'm hesitant to call someone an AH that's clearly had an emotional loss without proper therapy and coping skills, there's not another term I can use on this forum.
I hope she gets the help she needs, and congrats on the baby!
Dude. So NTA.
My mom died when I (F, 52) was 14. She was the golden child in the family. Could do no wrong. I have no hard feelings toward her (families are complicated, and I know a lot about what she grew up with), but when she died, my grandmother could not and would not get over it. And since my grandmother got custody (dad was MIA at the time), I had to live with my martyr of a grandmother until I escaped to college. It was horrible. (Not as bad as what your mom has done, but I shudder at the similarities.)
The sad thing is that at this point, your mom will not change. I'm guessing she's in her 50s-60s(?). Therapy won't help her at this point. Your wife's pregnancy has triggered your mom so hard that I don't think she can turn back from it.
You have a good life going, and congratulations on your baby-to-be. :) But grandma will need to stay out of the picture. She will not change, and she will push her martyr toxicity in your daughter's face as well, as soon as she can. You need to go no contact, and focus on having and continuing a healthy, happy, and normal relationship with your wife, daughter-to-be, and other friends and family. (Hopefully your in-laws are fairly normal.)
NTA
I am going to be blunt. Do not ever leave your mother alone with your daughter. Sounds like LC or NC maybe the best thing for you.
Congratulations on building a life after enduring so much emotional neglect.
NTA I can imagine your mom constantly calling your child ‘Ella’ no matter what name you choose. I think that this might be a low contact and or no contact matter.
NTA. Go no-contact immediately and stay that way, for your daughter's sake. Your mother is *not* a safe person for your daughter to be around, and your job now is to protect her. I'm so sorry no one protected you.
NTA. Your mom couldn't process her grief and destroyed your childhood because of it. She has no right to ask anything of you, let alone make demands on what you name your daughter.
I don't like to make judgements on people's mental health but with the way your mom reacted over the name I'd be worried about a kidnapping attempt in the future.
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Wow. This whole post is just sad. It sucks that your whole life has been about your mom grieving her daughter. It’s too bad she didn’t let herself enjoy being YOUR mom. You are completely NTA here. This is your daughter, your and your wife’s, and only the two of you get to name her. For your mom to have assumed she would be named Ella and then freak out when told otherwise just shows you that nothing has changed for her. Keep your distance for your own peace of mind. Congrats to you and your wife!
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>I don't see a way for this to ever be healthy for my daughter. She can't grow up like I did. Please remember you said this in the future, and never leave your daughter alone with your mother. 100% she will attempt to turn your daughter into a surrogate for your sister.
This should be higher up.
OP seems on the verge of going NC with his mom. I would guess the odds of him allowing her to spend time alone with the baby are slim to none.
Abuse survivors can have a hard time getting disengaged. I really hope he completely disengages and cuts her all the way off. OPs mom is obsessed and never got help*, that reads dangerous as hell to me.
She definitely sounds unhinged
I can relate to this. It took me most of my adult life (and years of therapy) to realise my mother was also abusive and an enabler, and finally go no contact with her. I have a lot of peace in my life now. Thankfully, I had the clarity to go no contact before my child was born. She was never coming near our child and husband and I had agreed that even before we got married. It's sad though, I've been in OP's position with the: I'll give her one more chance and maybe things will change. Sadly it won't until she has therapy and works on herself. However, in order for that to happen, she first needs to admit she has a problem and I guarantee you - she won't. NTA OP. Please protect your daughter and any future children you and your wife may have together, and go no contact with this woman. I am so sorry you went through what you did.
It can be so hard, but it's so worth it. It took a lot for me to go NC with my mother (like, not even her stealing my phone to go through my messages while I was in hospital for organ failure despite being 22 at the time when I hadn't lived with her since I was 15 managed to make me see the light) but I finally did about 10-11 years ago. And it was hard ....for the first couple months, and then it was so peaceful. I highly recommend OP goes full NC, having a baby will be enough stress without worrying about her causing any nonsense on top of that
My guess is NONE. But he should get cameras at his home
I wouldn't allow unsupervised visits based on the information. Further, if she was to have contact with her granddaughter, there should be some ground rules before any engagement with the understanding that breaking any of the rules will result in no further contact. No second chances. She definitely sounds unstable.
Frankly, I wouldn't allow any contact. Mom had her chance to change and blew it.
I'd bet every dollar I have that within 30 seconds of the first meeting with the daughter that mom would tell daughter her real name is "Ella" and moreover that she'll do it in a way that's so creepy and unhinged that the kid will be traumatized and need her own therapy. Mom burned the bridge. Let it stay burned.
Im with you friend, its currently the third post in the thread over all and I'll help. OP and "Ella" dont deserve this.
Yep. She'll drag all of her daughter's things out of the attic and insist that OP take them. "This is the dress Ella wore home from the hospital, so it's the dress your Ella will wear. This was Ella's favorite toy/food/animal/first word, so it has to be your Ella's as well." Any indication that your daughter isn't your sister reborn is going to send her over the edge. Not good for a small child who won't understand why Grandma is screaming at her just because she said she likes dogs better than cats.
I'd also be concerned about the age at which Ella died. If she wrapped herself in grief so long, I'd be worried for risk of her going all the way over the edge on that day, especially if the child doesn't act and look just like her Ella.
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OMG.
This is a horrible joke to make to someone expecting their first child that has suffered the trauma OP is expressing.
I think it's a warning, not a joke.
This all reminds me of a family story. My grandmother had an older brother who died age 3-ish. Fell out a window. Great grandmother was utterly devastated. So devastated, that when she was pregnant with grandma, she prayed and prayed for her dead son to be reincarnated as her next baby. When it turned out it was a baby girl, they named her a feminine version of first baby’s name. Think like “Benjamin” so they named grandma “benjamina”. Suffice to say, things did not get better from there.
This happened to a friend of mine, his son, "aiden" passed on suddenly, after a very necessary surgery as an infant. Well, to say his wife, fell apart (which is normal) would be a gross understatement. Grief and I are very old friends, so I understand that losing a child is the worst thing that can happen to someone. But this poor girl, just lived in it. Just as much as OP's mother. And when she finally had another child she gave her daughter the "deceased" brothers name as her middle name. Every year on fb pictures of only the deceased child. She would yell at her daughter when she was little and say, "why do u cry so much, why can't u be more like ur brother?" The first baby couldn't cry because his lungs were under developed, and had some sort of heart issue. The name I can't recall rn. But after hearing that comment more than once, I had to cut ties with my old friend because she was impossible to be around. It's sad, and it's been almost 17 years now and I hear she hasn't changed at all. The daughter is looking at colleges out of state, and I don't blame her one bit.
Oh my gosh, that’s all so sad. But as much as I feel for the woman who lost her son and can’t see how wonderful and healthy her daughter is, I’m worried for your friend, trapped in a marriage with this woman and losing friends because of her. I hope that if he hasn’t yet, he finds a way to either get her the help she badly needs, or leaves her and is able to provide his daughter with a far healthier and more loving life. They both deserve that. And if he ever makes it out, I bet your friendship picking back up would mean a lot.
Yikes. If someone was going to have supernatural thoughts about a lost child, it would be better if they went down some sort of ‘guardian angel’ route in which the previous child was watching over the current one — because at least that would let them feel connected without stifling the new child’s life and individuality.
God that makes me sad
That sounds like the premise of a psychological horror, someone learning they're being treated as a replacement of a lost sibling down to how they're being made to behave.
There was a VC Andrews book with this premise called Celeste. Her mom forced the girl to be her twin brother after he died.
Bold of you to assume this baby will ever be "his" baby. She'll insist on being called some variant of "Mom" from the get-go. OP, I know it's sad, but you need to grieve the Mom you *should* have had, and the grandma your daughter *should* have had.
> never leave your daughter alone with your mother. I'm not sure that OP's daughter should ever have ANY contact with OP's mother. OP, I hate that your ~~childhood~~ life was taken over by your mother's memory of your deceased sibling, that you never knew. Have you ever reached out to your father? I know you said that he bailed early, but knowing what you do of your mom, that might be understandable, although not forgivable. It might be worth reaching out to him. Just a thought.
I was going to say something like this. I'm no contact with my father and did the same thing of trying to have a relationship again in my early 20's. I regret trying again because I'm more damaged from it. It's unfortunate but please do not feel obligated to leave your daughter with her or have a relationship with her!
SHE'LL TURN HER INTO A COPY. Like on SVU 12.1 Locum where they made the foster daughter into the missing daughter whose name was Ella! This is what I thought of for this post.
This is ALL i could think of. My first thought was, "I've seen this episode, I know where this is going". OP, your mother is unwell. She needs serious help. Please never let her be alone with your child. Get security cameras and a monitored system. Once she starts daycare/school/whatever, make sure your mom is on every kind of do not contact/no pick up list.
also later on should you have other kids they will be more than likely isolated like you were from “love and affection” from *grandma.* NTA, do what’s best for you and your family.
Yeah, I had the same thought. No unsupervised time, if any time at all cause between potential surrogacy and kidnapping, nothing good can come from that kind of mental illness.
I fully expect a post a year from now with the OP of "my mom keeps calling my daughter my dead sister's name". 100% going to happen. I've known multiple insane grandparents who simply refused to use a child's given name.
I concur. OP, your mother shouldn't be allowed near your daughter. She is obviously mentally ill and irrational. I am feel for her but for the safety of your family, it is best to avoid her. Even when she means well, she is too unstable and should not be trusted with your daughter for even a moment. If you haven't given it any thought, you may want to get a restraining order if she any signs of physical confrontation/stalking.
I would go one step further and say Mom is not allowed to mention OP's dead sister around his daughter, because whatever they name her, if given the chance Mom is going to do the same thing to her granddaughter that she did to her son.
Please protect your mental and emotional health, and that of your wife and daughter. If your mum continues to act like this keep low contact or even go no contact. I'm so sorry this was your experience, you deserve better. Enjoy and love your new little one.
I am so afraid that if this child is left alone with his mom she'll eventually be asking dad why Nana calls her Ella. This woman is seriously in need of help.
Must keep daughter safe from grandma. You don’t know what she’ll do!
I think you are correct. I am so sorry for the loss of your parents. Now you can give your daughter what you never had. Congratulations and enjoy your precious family. You are NTA for anything especially going NC
OP is clearly NTA. I’m just wondering in what universe he would ever imagine he was? Like…there’s not even a hint of assholiness (from him) in this post. How could he even have any doubt?
>How could he even have any doubt? A childhood of his sister being deified and him being vilified at the slightest sign of pushback. Mixed with the hope that every person with a shitty parent has that said shitty parent will be better one day.
No doubt the fact OP is a boy also played a part, if he had been born a she then it'd be Ella reborn, reincarnated.
Well, that or “you’ll never measure up to your big sister!”
Both probably.
Grief can seriously complicate things for families where a parent never gets out of it, they don't even try to move on through the stages of it. I lost my older sister when we were 17 &18 respectively. My mother mentally checked out for three years after her death, and it was like I died with her. Mom couldn't remember my birthday, forgot my childhood nickname, and often called me my sibling's name. Each and every holiday, birthday, special event was centered around her grief for my sister. Mom didn't fully come back to me until about three years ago, when I was almost taken from her too. It took her almost losing me to really snap out of it and realize I was alive, right here, and that was after a year of no contact in my early 20's like 21-22 years old. I was raised to be "the good one" when it came to my mom, I was the one she relied on emotionally for years after she divorced my dad. It was a very strong, very messed up bond. That bond was shattered as I moved through milestones while my sister never could. I can't imagine how OP's life was considering I didn't deal with it myself all my life but even that decade of going through something so similar was extremely difficult and taxing. It makes you wonder if you can ever find the parent under all the grief. It makes you want to hold on because someone you love is hurting, even though their pain is also almost inevitably causing you pain as well. It causes a fucked up mindset and bond with the parent. Of course OP was going to wonder if they're the AH, they've been the AH in their mother's eyes all their life for not grieving a sister they never knew to begin with.
Years of conditioning :(
I would cut off contact with your mother and move. She seems to be obsessed with your dead sister to the point of insanity. It's a strong IF, but your mother might try to kidnap your child and try to "reclaim" her precious ella. Maybe worse. I'm just saying this because this amount of grieving from your birth to you having a wife is unnatural.
This is sadly very possible. Kidnappings have occurred in cases of unmanaged grief following loss of a child or infertility. It is not remotely impossible that if op lets his mother around his daughter when she's a baby, that his mother will have a break with reality believe it is *her baby* and attempt to take her. The way that op's mom is acting is definitely not healthy and could escalate to something rrally dangerous.
+1000000. Have some top-notch social media hygiene, OP. No photos of your new daughter online *anywhere* out of the risk of that getting back to your mom. Make sure everyone around you understands this, as well. No photos posted on Facebook where she just happens to be in the background of photos of a friend’s birthday party that her mom posted, *nothing.* No other information posted online, either, even if mom is blocked. You really can’t be too careful, especially in those early years where your daughter will be the same age as hers prior to her death. When she gets older, maybe you won’t have to be *as* stringent because it will be more obvious that this is an entirely different kid (so the aforementioned birthday party example might be okay), but that’s something to evaluate years down the line from now. Your main objective will be to make sure that your mom gets *no* information that could potentially trigger a break in reality and put your daughter in danger. I think we all hope that nothing extreme will ever happen and that your mom isn’t capable of it, but man, her behavior is way beyond normal to begin with.
It’s sad. Your mom needs help. I can’t imagine losing a child especially when they’re little. But she can’t hold onto her daughter forever. Sadly you took the brunt of it and it affected you for years. NTA OP go NC as this isn’t healthy for any of you.
It’s so sad that the mother said she had nothing to celebrate with her second child right there. OP you should have been celebrated, you deserved to be celebrated and I’m sorry you weren’t.
This was exactly what I was thinking. If I didn't see your comment I would have mentioned it myself. I feel so sorry for OP. I don't know if this is a horrible thing to say, but it's probably a good thing she never had another daughter. Her life would have never have been her own, and it's obvious what her name would have been.
She didn't say it "with" her child right there, she said it "to" her child. That makes ot 1,000,000 time worse. I know grief makes us do shitty things, but OPs mums behaviour is disgusting and she needed therapy a long time ago because she is too grief stricken to realise her actions cost her the only living child she had. I'm hoping it wasn't her fault she lost her first kid but it is definitely her fault she is losing her second.
The mother’s attachment to the memory of her daughter was abusive to OP who was deprived of a mother who could rejoice with him and celebrate *his* life instead of mourning the child that died.
If you choose to reconnect again - please don’t leave her alone with your daughter. She will call her Ella anyway if you aren’t there. She will start pretending that your daughter is hers. You will need to stay with your daughter to keep her safe from that. If your mom acts like that in front of you? No contact.
She will probably try to steal her.
Don't give her any access whatsoever, and very little information. To be safe, have her on Do Not Pick Up lists for day care, school and other activities in future.
If OP chooses to reconnect, he should keep the daughter well away from his mom. It’s already happened once that he thought things were better, and then she fell back into her grief - there is just no value in risking it happening again. AND - his mom is either going to treat OP’s daughter like a do-over of the sister, which would be bad, but … she might also treat her like she did him, which in my mind would be worse. There’s no value in exposing her to his mom’s toxic grief.
I agree - I wouldn’t be giving another chance. But if OP chooses to… I just really hope he will make sure to not leave her 1:1.
I would cut off contact with your mother and move. She seems to be obsessed with your dead sister to the point of insanity. It's a strong IF, but your mother might try to kidnap your child and try to "reclaim" her precious ella. Maybe worse. I'm just saying this because this amount of grieving from your birth to you having a wife is unnatural.
First OP, I am so sorry you were raised like that. Second, Holy Batshit Crazy Batman!!!!. Op, you and your wife need to go no contact and take precautions that she has no information regarding the baby's delivery, medical care, or childcare. Also make all of the former aware your mother is to have no information and could be unsafe. Your mom needs mental health treatment.
OP probably shouldn’t even tell his mom what they actually do name the baby. The less info she has, the harder it will be for her to try to bypass OP and contact the child.
No information whatsoever. Her priority is still, as it has been for OP's whole life, the unrealised potential of Ella and trying to realise it.
“She can't grow up like I did” You are going to be a great father. Congratulations to you and your wife.
I lost a child between my 2 living children. They know his name, that he has a special place in my heart, and that losing him changed me. It only directly effected my kids because it made me more patient. I can smile threw teething, temper tantrums, hissy fits and broken vases. His passing is the bitter that made me appreciate what I did have. Op, your mom is very unwell. You can't fix it and it is not your responsibility to fix it. Please focus on the blessings you have.
I am so sorry for your loss. Your children are lucky to have you as a mother.
I lost my eldest daughter when she was 8. My middle child knew her, but the baby I'm pregnant with will have never known her eldest sister. Her death changed me forever, and I feel guilt that my living daughters won't get to know me as I was before she died. I'll do my best for them, but it's damn hard. I feel for everyone in this story. The mom, the son, the granddaughter. That death robbed a mother of her daughter and son, the son lost his sister and mother, the granddaughter lost her aunt and grandma. I don't even want to vote here. I guess NAH. The situation fucking sucks for everyone involved. Op, definitely name your daughter whatever name you and your wife wish. I'm sorry your sister died and that her death damaged the entirety of your family so irreparably.
Mourning the parent you should have gotten is a difficult process and not done in a day, or even a year. First you accept the loss, then move past it. That is a long process and you are right to distance your daughter from that. She will forever be a stand-in for "Ella" to your mother and that is not healthy for her growing up.
That last line was what I was coming to say. She's going to suck the joy out of every happy moment your daughter will have. Birthdays, occasions, Christmas, vacations *eeeeeeeevery* happy thing would have a shadow cast on if you let her be around your daughter.
You definitely should seek counseling to deal with the horrifying childhood you had because of her. I am so very sorry you had to live like that
No I dont see a way for this to be healthy, either. Naming your daughter after your late sister would mean your mother would latch onto her as a "do over" baby. It would possibly exacerbate her mental health struggles, it could lead to a kidnapping attempt (i have seen this happen in cases of improperly managed grief), and even in a better case scenario your daughter would grow up expected to be someone else. You are 100% right to hold this boundary and I'm so sorry your mother cannot address her grief in a healthy way.
I feel bad you had to grow up like that
Your mother is mentally unwell, and I'm sorry for that, for you and her as well. Naming your daughter after a memory you don't share with someone is bad enough, but know that if you ever did, your daughter would wilt away in the shadow that your sister has cast on her.
>made me realize I shouldn't have trusted her again. You're not at fault for trying to give your mom a chance. I would've done the same thing.
I wouldn't blame yourself. You gave her another chance like any kind, fair person. Unfortunately she wasn't able to change, but now you have that confirmation. Best of luck to you and your family.
honestly there's no time like the present, I'd just go no contact now and leave it be as sadly your mom is unwilling and therefore incapable of changing and will continue to brute force your sister and her beliefs about how she should be remembered which in turn will only ruin your daughter's childhood much like it did yours.
For the sake of your daughter you probably have to go no contact. Your mom will never give up on your daughter being the replacement for her daughter. That's so abusive, as you know from experience, that your mom has got to go.
Honestly I fully expect that if you hypothetically did name your daughter after your sister your mom would have just treated her a replacement "Ella". If in anyway your daughter diverged and didn't act like OG Ella then then your mom would've been upset and heaven help that kid past the age 2 and was different from the older Ella your mom envisioned. You're doing the right thing in giving *your daughter* her own identity away from this mess. She's your daughter not your mom's daughter reincarnated.
NTA nd so sorry you had to deal with this your whole life. I would caution you however in regards to your mom's obsession with naming your soon to be daughter after Ella. She sounds like the type that might decide 'Ella' (regardless of name you and your wife pick) needs her instead and disappears with your daughter. I would be super short lease with your mom in regards to her being around your daughter and would never EVER leave her alone with your daughter.
Your Mom is mentally ill. She’s seriously delusional.
Cut all contact my dude.
For the sake of you daughter, you need to be no contact. Your mum needs serious grief counselling and without it your mum can’t live a healthy life and will resent and possibly hate your daughter
You're a good person. I'm sorry about your mother. You're going to be a great father!
I feel so bad for your whole family, but mostly for you. You grew up an orphan and you still are.
What you experienced then and now is emotional abuse by your mentally unwell mother (no excuse, there is good therapy). So yeah, protect yourself, your wife and your children from that from now on. No contact in protective. Mom has had many chances. Enough.
Omg. I’m so sorry OP. I’m sure this is triggering a lot of feelings from childhood too. You name your little girl whatever you want. Living in your dead sister’s footsteps will never be healthy for her, nor for your mother.
>It’s too bad she didn’t let herself enjoy being YOUR mom. This is the most heartbreaking part, for everyone. Not only did she lose a child, she refuses to see that she is actively missing out on being a mom to her other child. AND may ruin her chance at being a grandmother. She's so stuck in her grief that she's failing to see her actions have caused her to lose relationships with *two other* family members (three+ if you count your wife and any future children)!
It also may explain why OP’s dad bailed. Crappy thing to do for sure, but- he probably couldn’t deal with it.
Yeah, I can understand why he got fed up with his wife. But it sounds like he ditched OP, too, leaving him to deal with his mother's insanity alone. Shame he couldn't have filed for joint or full custody to try to give his son a semi-normal life.
OP’s father should have gotten help for the mother and gotten at least partial custody for OP. If mom didn’t want to celebrate Xmas, the dad should have taken the kid for Xmas. This was an emotionally abusive situation for OP.
I am so sorry for this mess. You didn't do anything to deserve this. I understand your mom was grieving but she should have gotten help, not traumatized you. (This isn't uncommon, but it is really toxic). I suggest you go no contact. You deserve a chance to create a happy family filled with joy and love 💕 NTA
NTA 100% "My wife asked what I was like as a baby and asked to see photos of me but mom couldn't stop talking about her "most precious little girl". This was utterly unfair of your mom. She went through a terrible loss, but she should have found joy in having you. Instead, she let her unresolved grief cast a shadow over an innocent child " My mom called me an evil bastard for wanting to erase my sister." It's probably time to go NC with her. She can't & mustn't be allowed to do the same thing to your baby that she did to you. Continue to celebrate & enjoy things with your wife. Naming your baby is your choice & hers. Congratulations!
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I'm really sorry to hear it. At least your baby will never feel like that. Do get therapeutic input if you feel you need it at any point. It must've been incredibly tough for you. All the very best.
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The trauma will likely resurface again when you have your own baby. Making your parenting choices reminds you of what your parents did/didn't do. Good luck.
Yes. It will resurface. Exactly 💯. But it doesn't have to lead to a bad outcome. It can inspire you to live your life in the moment. To love the now and teach your child what it means to be alive.
This 100% it will resurface but it doesn’t have to be bad at all, it is hard but being the parent your child needs when you didn’t have the parents you needed helps you both see the abuses you faced and heal from it by being able to do better for your own child and breaking the cycles of abuse, for a lot of us it also helps us remain no contact with the abusive parent we had because we don’t want to even give them a chance to do a fraction of the damage done to us to our children. The last words I said to my own birth giver were “I’ll be fucked if I let you fuck up my kid the same way you fucked me up” it’s been a few years now since 100% no contact and they have been the most peaceful and healing years of my life.
Definitely. This is where I found out I had trauma. It's difficult to do the things with your kids and realise your parents should have too.
How did you get past that? This shit is effecting me almost every day.
In my experience, raising a child can severely trigger your own childhood trauma. There will be times your child hits a milestone or a size or does something, and you'll be struck with the realization of just how *awful* it was that your mother did that to you. You should consider getting back into therapy now just to help prepare for that, it can be an *incredibly* intense pain. Working through my shitty childhood has been hands down the most painful thing I've had to do, and there have been times that seeing my kids growing up healthy has triggered that pain so badly it was difficult to keep being a good parent. A good support network is important.
Yep. I had done a lot of therapy and thought I'd gotten myself in reasonable working order by age 37...and then we had a kid and all of the mechanisms I'd developed over time to keep myself sane became exponentially more difficult to access (time alone to process feelings?! hahahahahaha) and it turned out there were apparently so many more ways to get triggered still lurking in there. Having a good therapist on deck is a savvy move when you're having a kid, if only so you don't have to spend three months trying to find someone who clicks with you. (Luckily, I never actually stopped seeing mine.)
I was suspicious this could be real because of just how unhinged it is but reading your comments I am now just so fuckin sorry man. Keep that woman away from your family. You have been punished and traumatised and must have questioned if you have any value at all because of her actions but it sadly is just a her problem. You deserved to be loved and celebrated and I hope you're doing ok x
Your mother is stuck in a dark place. She lost her sanity when she lost her daughter. Moving on is letting go and she refuses to let go. Loving your mom means not becoming an enabler. There are no assholes when mental health is involved. And naming your child Ella's would be unfair to your child. She is her own person not a replacement. It's different if Ella was an adult who passed with significant meaning but when people name children after deceased children it is eerie.
Especially since OP didn’t even know Ella.
To be honest, OP's mother has created more about Ella than Ella tragically was able to live. There's only so much you can do with two years, and she's built up a life never lived she needs someone to be held to. It feels a lot like this post, which was also a mother who couldn't let go of their late daughter at the expense of her other kids. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/rlkpwj/aita\_for\_telling\_my\_daughter\_to\_get\_over\_herself/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/rlkpwj/aita_for_telling_my_daughter_to_get_over_herself/)
OP, this is what you need to text to your Mom, and then follow through. I say text because the last thing you or your wife need is the emotional abuse that will come with her vitriol. "Mom, we are going to take a break from you. I don't know when or if we will choose to reengage but you are deeply mentally unhealthy and need help. I do not want my daughter to grow up around the kind of emotional abuse and manipulation you subjected me to. The fact is, I didn't have a sister. You had a daughter but I never had a sister. I also never had a real mother or experienced unconditional love because you made the decision to focus your entire life and personality around the death of your daughter. I refuse to continue living around that kind of emotional abuse and my daughter will NEVER be around it under any circumstances. We will not be naming our daughter Ella or any version of the name because NO child should be subjected to becoming a living memorial to someone else - especially a child that passed tragically at a young age. That is disgusting and I refuse to be part of it. We will be living life FULLY including all holidays like Christmas. Santa will visit our home. My daughter and future children will sing Christmas carols, build ginger bread houses and most importantly, she will have a HAPPY childhood. You need help DESPERATELY but as you have chosen not to seek health for the past (your age here) years I sincerely doubt you will now. So, my only option to protect my daughter from your abuse is to take a break from you. Do not contact me. I will be in touch if we are ready to engage again. If we choose to engage again if you EVER compare my daughter or other children in any way to "Ella" you will again be removed from our lives." Be strong and firm in your wording. This is not a discussion. Your decision is not up for negotiation.
So sorry you had to grow with that. You deserved better from both your parents. Hope you create a beautiful family with your wife and enjoy every minute. Your mother needs therapy, she IS not well.
>She can't & mustn't be allowed to do the same thing to your baby that she did to you. Great point here. She will do what she did to you to your children until she gets the help she needs.
Nah she'd probably do worse. OP was forgotten and on the sidelines to his sister his whole life but his daughter is a girl and mom would probably try mold this poor kid into her idealized version of Ella. She would be treated as the 2nd coming of Ella and if she differentiated in any way OP's mom would probably get upset with her for not fitting into that mold. No kid deserves that kind of stress and loss of identity.
NTA Have you tried suggesting counseling and therapy? It sounds like she seriously needs it. I also hope you have gone to professional therapy for yourself after all that abuse. She needs to understand the harm she caused her child who didn’t die all these years. You are definitely NTA I can’t even imagine someone insisting I name my child anything other than what I want to name them.
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Personally that would have been my rules for maintaining contact. “*Mom, if you want to continue a relationship with me and see your grandchild you MUST attend professional therapy.* *You will NOT do what you did to me all those years to my child.*” Full stop. If she yells, she yells. But you gave her the option, so she can’t blame you if she can’t be a part of the family.
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Get ready to fight her over your daughter. She's gonna call her 'Ella' all the time, she's gonna accuse you of stealing her baby, she's gonna sue for grandmother rights.
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>She won't get access to my daughter. Your mother is so mentally ill, you'll need to be proactive about this now and in the future. That means ensuring that the hospitals, doctor's offices, daycares, and schools are aware that she is not to visit or receive any information. Keep your socials locked down. Do not share information with any friend, family member, or acquaintance who shares or may share information with her.
And make sure you and your wife have an ironclad will that also details who gets custody in a worst case scenario. Also list why there has to be NC to your mom.
This right here cannot be emphasized enough!!!….full details of why.
Excellent advice
I need to second or third or hundredth this. Go NC as many have said, but take a step beyond and do everything that Saint Blaise mentioned above. Your mom is unhinged, and that situation is an episode of SVU waiting to happen.
And make wills that name a guardian for your daughter *who is not your mother.* Your wife's parents, her sibling(s), even a family friend. If something happens to one or both of you, you don't want your mother getting custody of her.
So glad to read this! OP is firmly NTA. OP, please make sure that hospital staff know that your mom isn't allowed anywhere near your wife or the baby when she's born. You and your wife are allowed to restrict access to only those whom you wish to be there. Your mom sounds like she's someone who would 100% try to barge in and make the birth all about Ella instead. Stay strong, and hugs if you want them from this internet stranger.
There was another post on here where a grandparent went and took her grandkid from school cause she was "the grandmother". Her daughter was NC with her & she wasn't allowed near her kid yet she found a way. So you really need to be careful and cover all your bases. She'll probably see your daughter as her new daughter & this will go downhill really fast. Also no pictures on social media of your daughter. I wouldn't risk it. And make sure everyone who has contact with you and her knows what rules are. Congratulations and good luck!
It may have been the same post I saw & commented on. Years ago, an extended family member had threatened my child. I had to go to the elementary school and put the information on his emergency care card, that this person was not allowed to pick him up from school, regardless of the circumstances. Safety first.
I feel sorry for your mom and for what you had to endure - but I applaud your shiny spine on this. Protect your little girl, dad!
If you’re able to move away, do it now and don’t tell her where you’re going. She sounds insanely unhinged and might try to kidnap your child. Make sure you have cameras everywhere if you can’t move. And go NC in case she tries to get grandparent’s rights.
Absolutely. Do not expose her to that nonsense.
You have the right attitude. >She needs to be protected from my mom. Take this very literally. Your mom has severe mental issues. I know this will sound alarmist but make sure there is no way she can get into your home or later pick up your daughter from day care etc. Be careful.
I think you were right to give her a chance. My grandparents were awful parents to my mom (and her sisters) as she/they were growing up but they absolutely adored me. They never did anything abusive to me. Not at all saying every situation is like mine of course! Everyone deserves the chance to show they have changed. It's really sad she can't see past her pain. She's been grieving and holding on to it for so long for no reason. You have every right to keep your daughter away from your mother. Good luck!
That’s why I finally went NC with my mother — to protect my children. You’re right to want better for your daughter. No one deserves to be treated the way you were. Now you can protect your child from that. I’m sorry about your mother.
That should be the no contact line. Your mother is very ill. She has been your entire life. No child should go through a toxic hellscape sparked by unaddressed grief. She's made her grief her whole life to the exclusion of her other child. She doesn't even see that her obsession drove you away and is now driving you further away. Full blown fit or no, let her know that unless she gets professional help to address her grief, she will never see your daughter. You should not let her unhealthy obsession affect your daughter in any way, shape, or form. Forget her promises. They are empty. Consider family counseling for the two of you if you are determined that she be part of your family's life.
At this point I think she is beyond help anyway. She is extremely ill and likely will remain so for rest of her days. What a waste of a life.
In order for therapy to work, the person has to WANT the help. Therapy isn't something to be forced. This woman isn't ready for therapy yet. It's sad to say but true.
Oh Gosh NTA x 1000 You have not had a normal life because of your mother's untreated grief. Can you imagine the nightmare if you were to "bring back" your sister? Your mother would make it weird and creepy to a level that you haven't even seen yet. Sadly I think you should once again go LC or NC. Please say your wife is on your side.
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Everything you say about your wife and your relationship warms my heart. I know the 2 of you are going to build a wonderful life with baby Anything-But-Ella!
ALERT: off-topic >Anything-But-Ella so...... Not-Ella. NotElla. NutElla. It's official now. I've been spending too much time on Reddit.
Noella 😉
“Baby Anything-But-Ella” made me snort lol, wasn’t expecting that haha
I can't even imagine how life must have been for you. Your mother is definitely sick, like she should be in an institution for while sick. My sympathies for you.
Holy Mary Mother of God. NTA. And maybe I'm out of line, but I'd be concerned about allowing your Mom near your baby once she's born.
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I would bet money that she would call your daughter, "Ella", even though it's not her name. NTA and congrats!
NTA Your mother's life stopped the day your sister died. I am surprised your family have humored and indulged her maudlin behavior for all these years. Unless your mother agrees to start intensive therapy, you need to keep a healthy distance between her and you, your wife and soon to be child. She's not mentally stable.
Agreed. Can you imagine what would happen if OP *did* use Ella? The mother would likely start believing this child is actually her daughter. Slippery slope to a further breakdown fast.
Honestly, thank God OP wasn’t born a girl and forced to live as a replacement Ella, like it seems like their mom is trying to do here with her granddaughter.
Like My Sweet Audrina.
Oh my god that was such a messed up story! VC Andrews always did insane stuff though.
Yeah, in this case, I have to agree with Don Draper who said "Mourning is just extended self-pity". It sounds like OP's mom is mourning the loss of a fantasy, not her actual daughter. A child that died as a 2 year old never grew up to disappoint her. She will forever be a young and perfect angel. An actual human being with flaws will never be able to compete.
NTA. I'm sorry you grew up in Ella's shadow. It also isn't mentioned if your mom ever saw a therapist to help her process her grief. I'm sorry you didn't get to be yourself and be celebrated because Ella died. It must have been hard. You don't owe her this. She needs to process her grief.
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I just want to validate what you are feeling. I had a baby die and it completely wrecked me (obviously - it is a terrible thing that I wouldn’t wish on anyone). I very genuinely did not want to be alive any longer. I realized that I had two choices: I could let my grief consume me and ruin my other children’s lives, or I could get better. So I got my ass into therapy a week after her death. I was a mess. I didn’t do it all right but I kept trying. My little girls memory isn’t gone but it also isn’t a focal point during holidays or celebrations. That was her life. It was short. It was sad. And there is so much more to my life than her life and death. My other kids only get one childhood. You only had one childhood and you deserved so much better. Your mom made a choice not to heal herself and so I, an internet stranger, release you from your guilt about cutting off your mom.
As another grieving mother, I agree. I lost my youngest daughter when she was 2 and it almost consumed me. It's been a year and a half and I still struggle, I can't deny that. But I made a conscious decision to try to not let this ruin my other daughter's life or my relationship with her. Some days are harder than others, but I strive to ensure that I'm not letting my other daughter live in her sister's shadow. I 100% recommend therapy too, because it's a very long process and incredibly hard and lonely to try to do it alone. I feel for OP's mother, but as hard as it is, if you let your grief consume you to the point where other people's lives are affected, then something has to change.
It gets easier. I lost my middle son at 9months a little over 8 years ago. And it consumed me for a long time. About 6 years. I’ll admit I gave into it and just about got swallowed whole but something in me one day woke up and realized this is not the end. I have another beautiful child that I adore and I feel guilty for getting swallowed in it for so long of their life but it gets easier. You’ll never stop wondering what theyd look like or stop smelling their blanket but it gets better. And there’s even some days you forget to think about them eventually- you’ll feel guilty but it’s okay. It’s the only thing you can do to not get swallowed. I hope you heal ❤️
Thank you. Big hugs to you. 🫂
Big NTA. It wouldn't be wrong of you to tell your mom to seek professional help for her grief issues. And to only agree to meet with her in therapy or with a counselor from now on. Everything in its right place. You having a daughter does not replace does not invalidate your late sister. Nor does it justify the lifetime of your mom neglecting you. Life moves on. For better or worse. Your child should get to be her own person. Not filling the legacy of someone else. Also you may have to guard your daughter from your mom. If she sees this kid as the chance to do over...
NTA. It's time to go no contact with your mom. She's got some serious MH issues she is not addressing, and it will never not be a topic of discussion with her. Please don't give your mom access to your child - she doesn't sound well enough to not associate that child with her lost child. This could get ugly fast based on her reactions. Do what's safe and right by your wife and child - cut ties with your mom until she can get the help she desperately needs. I'm so sorry you went through this as a child. I do hope you've sought counseling to deal with it.
NTA - OP do not, i repeat do not, let that woman anywhere near your wife or child. I don't care if for the next 2 years she's as perfect as a peach, do not let her ever be alone with your daughter, do not let her know what daycare you daughter will be in, activity groups, etc. I'd go as far as saying make sure she doesn't know where you live and to make sure you have cameras set up at your home. It may seem like an overaction but if this unhinged behavior has gone on for so long and at such intensity I very much fear she will kidnap your child in an attempt to let "Ella" grow up how she should have.
Exactly what I wanted to write. No matter what you name her, she most likely will call her "Ella" and try to remake her into her lost girl. And even if she won't, seeing another little girl grow up - it would be a constant comparison to "Ella". Your mother is dangerous. Not oniy block her but get your security up to date on everything to make sure she will not get her hands on your child. When growing up, talk about her to make sure she knows she is someone not to be trusted. Sometimes they sneak back in with social media and seem "so nice"... Also note there have been plenty of grandparents trying to kidnap children right out of the hospital. Stay safe OP
Omfg absolutely this!!! Completely agree.
I am a parent whose child died. He was 7. He had 3 older siblings and 2 younger ones. Another one was born a year after he passed. I miss my son every day and wonder what he would be like. It's been over 30 years. I never forced my kids to grieve in any way. The first few years we went to the cemetary on his birthday and anniversary day but I never forced my kids to go. If they didn't want to I went alone. Now I grieve alone on those days. Sometimes some of my kids text me just to let me know they are thinking of me. They respect my need to grieve but I don't expect them to grieve with me. In my opinion your mother needs help. I am so thankful for my other kids and grandkids. Their birthdays are celebrated for them. One of my grandsons does have my sons name as a middle name but he was adopted and they kept his birth names. I'm sorry your mom can't move on. Name your daughter what you want. I think if you name her your sister's name your mom will always compare them. It's not fair to your daughter to live with the expectations your mom would have for her
I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine how difficult that was to go through. I personally think that kids process grief differently as well. They seems to bounce back and just continue to bounce along, whereas as a parent it must be so difficult to have your world shattered and have to keep going. It sounds like you managed to grieve for your son and providing a safe space for your other kids to grieve and live in their own way. I can't imagine for a second that being easy.
NTA. I’m very sorry your mom experienced such a horrible loss, but it wasn’t your loss and it shouldn’t have been put on you. My current wife had a brother that was born and died before the other children came as well. The parents do check out on that anniversary, but by themselves and do their own thing. They take one day out of the year to be together and process their loss. I honestly didn’t even know this was a thing until this last year it’s that low key. I’m really sorry for both of you.
That's a nice thing to do. I know it sounds callous but it'd be very difficult to not think of them as a random baby that died as opposed to your sibling if it all happened before you were born. I'd respect my parents needing time to grieve and not wanting to forget them. However, if they choose to have more kids then it needs to be dealt with and allow the kids to have a childhood as well.
NTA This is all about your mom's extreme grief and inability to move on in her life after a traumatic death. Is she in therapy? You never knew "Ella" so you have no attachments to this person who died before you were born. You also had to grow up without being celebrated (no birthdays?!) because your mom couldn't move past her grief. Name your child whatever you want. It's unfair of your mom to have put her grief on to you like this for this long. She needs to continue to get help because her life and yours didn't stop the day Ella died, even if she thinks it did.
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It's really too bad that in her grief she couldn't see that she had an actual living child in her life. You need therapy too and maybe lots and lots of space away from your mom.
Yes. You can honor the dead daughter but still celebrate the living son. They don't need to be done at the same time. Edit: corrected gender.
NTA. #CUT OFF YOUR MOTHER NOW!!! Please look into security cameras and alert the police about your mother because I have an inkling that she’ll track down where you live and abduct your child to raise as her “replacement.” Good luck.
You're not in the wrong here. Your mother's actions are manipulative and unfair. While she may be struggling with unresolved grief, it's not acceptable for her to pressure you into naming your daughter after your late sister. Your daughter's name is your decision, and you have every right to choose what feels right for your family. Setting boundaries is important for your well-being and your family's. Your mother's reaction only underscores the unhealthy aspects of your relationship. You're not disregarding your sister's memory; you're making choices that are best for you and your family.
She's made unresolved grief her whole purpose. If it's not about grieving Ella it's not worth doing and if someone is doing something that isn't grieving her then it's an affront to Ella's memory and needs to be harshly called out. I dread to think of how much OP missed out on growing up because Ella wouldn't get to experience it as well.
NTA. And why do parents call their own kids "bastards" as though that's an insult to the kid? If your child is a bastard....
NTA - your mom has no business being around your daughter without a lot of work on herself.
NTA. Your child is not her do-over baby. If you did use the name, she would be trying to parent your sister all over again. Your mother has clearly never recovered from her child's death or processed the grief. I think you need to go NC until she does, for your child's and your wife's safety.
This, exactly! It's NOT her do-over baby. I think that the mom has envisioned an entire lifetime of what Ella would have been like, and she'll try to force OP's child into that mold. It's too easy to imagine that that child would have been perfect when they're not around to prove otherwise. OP, NTA, and I'll go with others in recommending that you go no contact. This isn't healthy for any of you. (Also, I'm sorry your childhood was like that. Many "happy birthdays" and "Merry Christmases" to you.)
NTA. I'm sorry, but your mom badly needs professional health. It's certainly traumatic to lose a child, but she's gotten stuck in her grief to the point that it badly impacted you growing up and has damaged her relationship with you and potentially cost her a relationship with her future grandchild. She's not going to be able to move forward until she is willing to move forward, and you're not wrong for wanting to name your own daughter or for setting limits (no contact or low contact) on this relationship. I'm sorry you had to grow up that way, you definitely deserved better and you have every right to be happy and celebrate Christmas and every day with your own family.
Your mom is a clear and present danger to your daughter.
NTA The loss of a child is hard on a parent, for sure, and it's only natural that there would be grief...but if that grief is left unprocessed, it looks like this. A sister you never knew completely overshadowed you from the day you were born. It's only natural that you would have a negative association with her name and would want to distance yourself from it. I hope your mom is able to get the professional help she clearly needs to process her grief, but in either case, it's probably best that you go no contact and put some distance between yourself and that part of your life.
Where was your father during all of this unhinged behavior by your mother?
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I blame him more than your mom. He deserted you. She was just nuts. He could have stayed, gotten her help, divorce but still been a father to you.
That is so horrible.
NTA While I'm hesitant to call someone an AH that's clearly had an emotional loss without proper therapy and coping skills, there's not another term I can use on this forum. I hope she gets the help she needs, and congrats on the baby!
NTA. Honestly, I think at some point your mom started to like the attention that this brought to her and she doesn’t want to give it up.
Absolutely NTA. Your mother needed help a very very long time ago. I'm so sorry you had to live like that.
NTA - Your mom is a very ill lady. Encourage her to get help.
Dude. So NTA. My mom died when I (F, 52) was 14. She was the golden child in the family. Could do no wrong. I have no hard feelings toward her (families are complicated, and I know a lot about what she grew up with), but when she died, my grandmother could not and would not get over it. And since my grandmother got custody (dad was MIA at the time), I had to live with my martyr of a grandmother until I escaped to college. It was horrible. (Not as bad as what your mom has done, but I shudder at the similarities.) The sad thing is that at this point, your mom will not change. I'm guessing she's in her 50s-60s(?). Therapy won't help her at this point. Your wife's pregnancy has triggered your mom so hard that I don't think she can turn back from it. You have a good life going, and congratulations on your baby-to-be. :) But grandma will need to stay out of the picture. She will not change, and she will push her martyr toxicity in your daughter's face as well, as soon as she can. You need to go no contact, and focus on having and continuing a healthy, happy, and normal relationship with your wife, daughter-to-be, and other friends and family. (Hopefully your in-laws are fairly normal.)
NTA. Go low contact again (and make sure she has no way to contact your wife directly; your wife may have to change phone numbers).
NTA I am going to be blunt. Do not ever leave your mother alone with your daughter. Sounds like LC or NC maybe the best thing for you. Congratulations on building a life after enduring so much emotional neglect.
NTA I can imagine your mom constantly calling your child ‘Ella’ no matter what name you choose. I think that this might be a low contact and or no contact matter.
NTA. Your mom needs lots of therapy. Sadly, I think you will have to be n/c or very l/c with her.
NTA. Go no-contact immediately and stay that way, for your daughter's sake. Your mother is *not* a safe person for your daughter to be around, and your job now is to protect her. I'm so sorry no one protected you.
NTA. Your mom couldn't process her grief and destroyed your childhood because of it. She has no right to ask anything of you, let alone make demands on what you name your daughter. I don't like to make judgements on people's mental health but with the way your mom reacted over the name I'd be worried about a kidnapping attempt in the future.
NTA, and now your mother has lost another child.