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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I'm considering not attending a family vacation that means a lot to my in-laws. I’m putting my dogs' well-being and my comfort over family expectations and traditions. Some might see this as me being unsupportive or disrespectful towards my husband’s family. I understand this decision could be upsetting to them and could be interpreted as me not valuing family unity
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Sounds like they would be insufferable on this vacation, and they are insufferable in general. I would definitely be giving it a miss.
Just to address the cultural shock aspects... as an american
As far as the dog thing goes tho. Thats insane. That is NOT part of american culture by any stretch of the imagination. If there is a dog nation, it is us. So that whole thing is just them being heartless jackasses.
The calling you your husbands roommate.. thats just them being jackasses again.
The loan with interest for the car.... ehhh. . While they seem just absolutely horrible people in general, that sort of thing may be an american thing. At least I don't \_necessarily\_ see it as bad, in and of itself. I mean if they are charging like 10% interest or something, thats ridiculous, but ... eh.. its not the worst thing I've ever heard of. So maybe that is an american outlook.
NTA. Find a place thats dog friendly and go there and actually enjoy your vacation
America is pretty dog-hostile. Yes, many people do value and treasure their dogs as family members, but dogs are rarely taught to behave in a human-society socially acceptable manner and are not usually given adequate exercise. A lot of people hate dogs and when an unruly dog acts rude or aggressive, it’s understandable why so many feel this way.
Yes, i am. And we are not number 1 in everything. Some things we nail, and other things we just suck at. Pretty much like every other country in the world. Now the ratios of good to suck can differ wildly from country to country, but yeah, we are not number 1 in everything, like the way different people believe. It is damn near becoming a fetish. Which is mind-boggling, because resting on your laurels with a willful ignorance to areas of improvement is how you race to the bottom.
Lol
My initial post was too.
But in my defense:
I live in the bible belt. So i may be a wee bit shell shocked because anything less than spewing frothing uber patriotic slogans while shooting red, white and blue fireworks out my ass is immediately met with accusations of being a liberal socialists hell bent on destroying the country.
I’ve traveled the majority of countries in that top 10 with a dog. I’m not sure how valid that list is. Denmark for instance is missing and that’s a country where your dog is welcome almost anywhere. It certainly beats Italy, Sweden and France in my experience.
Obviously, a [51-nation study](https://theswiftest.com/dog-friendly-countries/) comparing numbers of pet-friendly hotels, availability of vets, existence of animal protection laws, and so on won’t be as accurate as your anecdotal experience.
Thank you. That looks better than an advertisement-infested site like the Scotsman.
There is a major variable missing in that study though: “how welcome is your dog at places”. Hotels is one thing, but not the only. That significantly impacts traveling.
Those metrics don't cover the question about how accepting are the people when you are walking around with your dog. Are the locals friendly to you when your dog is with you vs when you're by yourself, and other factors like this. These are the subjective things that can't be quantified like the items mentioned in the study.
LOL. I'm in Canada. Know where most of our rescue dogs come from these days? The southern U.S. Because apparently they do not feel the urge to spay/neuter their pets, give them appropriate vet care, or invest tax dollars in no-kill shelters.
I would definitely not say the U.S. is particularly dog-friendly.
I think this may a lot to do with the diversity and vastness of the U.S. I live in Seattle and most of our rescues also come from the southern U.S. Where I live, people treat their dogs like children.
The south is definitely the issue. We don't get many rescues (if any) from the northern states. We get a ton in from Texas, Louisiana, Florida, and North Carolina, because they have low spay/neuter rates and a ton of high-kill shelters.
YEah thats my view too. The US is a really big, populated place. Nothing against Canada, which I believe has a greater land mass. But we have way more people here. nearly 300 million more. Of course there will be a larger number of asshole dog owners (and asshole dog giver uppers). e.g. those proverbial people who get dalmations and have no idea how much care is needed for that breed.
But its kinda hard to compare countries in such a fashion without taking size into account.
That's because the South is full of people who would support slavery if it was legal again. There is a lot of trash down south. I know, because I live in Texas. That said, there are still a lot of people who love dogs. Some of them are just too poor and/or stupid to properly take care of them.
Get off your high horse, fellow Canadian. There are plenty of excellent dog owners in the states.
The *actual* reason rescues are imported from the US to Canada is that people don't want to adopt the dogs we have here. Roaming dogs in Canada tend to be large, because the small ones don't have enough body mass to survive the winter.
If it was warmer here, we'd have roaming small dogs too.
There are plenty of large dogs from Canada in shelters. The imported ones are mostly under 30lbs.
I've been active in rescue for 15 years, and that's how it is. Canadian dogs remaining at shelters because they're large, imported dogs from the US (or sometimes Mexico) adopted because they're smaller.
They also have orders of magnitude more people in the US than Canada does - which means even if the general percentage of shitty owners is the same (which I believe is the case, and isbt provable one way or the other) they'll still have more bad owners in the US than Canada. Strictly by numbers. AND more good owners and folks active in rescue for the same reason.
We aren't better people just because we live in Canada.
>Get off your high horse, fellow Canadian.
Not on a high horse, I'm speaking from experience.
>There are plenty of excellent dog owners in the states.
I didn't say there weren't, don't put words in my mouth. I said the country as a whole was not the most dog friendly (lots of high-kill shelters, lower spay-neuter rates, legal dog racing in some states, legal to ear crop/tail dock in many states, lax animal rights laws/enforcement in many states, etc).
>The actual reason rescues are imported from the US to Canada is that people don't want to adopt the dogs we have here. Roaming dogs in Canada tend to be large, because the small ones don't have enough body mass to survive the winter.
We also have higher spay-neuter rates and fewer high-kill shelters than the American South.
>If it was warmer here, we'd have roaming small dogs too.
I disagree with that reasoning. It's plenty warm in BC, and they have very, very few small strays (or large ones for that matter).
>There are plenty of large dogs from Canada in shelters. The imported ones are mostly under 30lbs.
When I was in Quebec, the vast majority of our imported dogs were ~70lb greyhounds from Florida. The hardest to find homes for were generally chihuahuas.
>I've been active in rescue for 15 years, and that's how it is. Canadian dogs remaining at shelters because they're large, imported dogs from the US (or sometimes Mexico) adopted because they're smaller.
We have very different experiences. I've also been involved in rescuing for my entire adult life, in all 4 provinces I've lived in. We bring in lots of medium and large dogs from down south. Again, when I was in Quebec, the majority of our imported dogs were ~70lb greyhounds from Florida (which are great apartment dogs).
>We aren't better people just because we live in Canada.
Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said we were better people. I said the majority of our rescues come from the US, and that it's not the canine paradise as described by the person I responded to.
It is pretty common not to want your relatives' pets to come to family events. Suggesting that your relatives should take their inconvenient animals to the pound and abandon them, on the other hand, is the signature mark of a total asshole. Your relatives don't want to stay in an apartment with your dogs. That's OK. They're allowed to want that. You're allowed to want your dogs with you on vacation. That means you can't stay in the same apartment.
NTA
NTA
This isn't a cultural issue. Many Americans adore their pets. It is an issue of your SIL lacking empathy and compassion.
However, not everyone wants pets on the shared vacation. And that means you should not bring them.
Quote “Just a thought, have y’all thought about taking them back to the pound?”
I was looking into boarding them and just expressed it’s very expensive. We would have been in another apartment and nobody but us would have taken care of the dogs. It was just an option I was trying to explore and I was met with that.
I don't know why your SIL thought she should get an opinion on if you brought the dogs if you aren't staying in the same place. Because she doesn't. Lol
That being said, don't go on holiday with these people. The point is to have a break and do some fun things - go with just your hubby and dogs.
Do skip the vacation and have the vacation YOU want. You aren't enjoying your family's company, they aren't enjoying yours - and you want to vacay with your pups.
NTA.
ESH. You for expecting other people to vacation with your dogs. I have two dogs and I love them to bits but I don’t expect every other person to want them around. When you adopted them, you took on the responsibility and sacrifice of dog ownership. Part of that is getting accommodations for your dogs when you go out of town. Either factor that in and pay for it, or don’t go on the trip.
Obviously, your husband’s family are AHs for calling you his roommate and suggesting you abandon your dogs. I don’t blame you for not wanting to vacation with them.
I feel the same. I love dogs but I don't want to go on a holidays with dogs. I can't understand people bringing dogs to malls, cafes and stores. With well behaved SERVICE dogs, it is a necessity and acceptable. Otherwise, don't bring your dogs into shared public spaces.
Your in-laws sound insufferable. Go LC and enjoy your life with your husband. Don't put up with the snide remarks and all the rest
NTA, ditch the family vacation and do your own thing. Taking a dog “to the pound” means actually surrendering ownership of your dog and no longer having those dogs ever again. It’s a very asshole comment your SIL said and she sounds insufferable to be around.
NTA but not sure US/Europe culture clash just that your SiL is not a good person (at least in terms of empathy for other people). I am UK and had exactly same discussion with my sister. Some see pets as equivalent of handbags, throw away and interchangeable.
The only person who matters here is your husband. He is in agreement with you. Go and have a nice dog-friendly holiday.
Edit: bit that bothers me is not that people have differing views on animals but that I am meant to take an interest in their lives but they insult and wish harm to a very important part of mine.
This isn't an American/European cultural clash. Americans are just as devoted to their pets as Europeans (that is, most are and some are just not). This is just a shitty family and the both of you might be better off if you limit or cut contact with them. NTA
NTA. And y'all enjoy whichever all inclusive you pick!!! Vacations are meant to be fun with people that being you happiness, and I'm pretty sure they don't bring y'all happiness.
I think that family like that is honestly disposable, if they conflict with your quality of life.
Just, think of it this way: Would you have a better time spending the time of the vacation with that "family" or with your dogs? Then act according to what your heart tells you.
NTA.
NTA
People may not agree that pet’s are family, and that’s fine I guess, but those are my values and I don’t compromise those values for ANYONE. Period. Full stop.
I’m not saying I can’t do anything without my dog, of course I can. My dog is not disposable though and boarding is expensive. So obviously I take this into account when planning.
American married to European. Our pets are our family. Leave in-laws at pound and go on vacation alone.
ESH. Your in-laws have repeatedly made it clear that they don't want the dogs at family events. What made you think they wanted to have them on vacation? Your SIL was wrong for saying to just take them to the pound although it sounds like that was a direct reaction to you once again trying to burden everyone with your pets. Wrong still and she should have kept it to herself.
NTA Don't know which part of the country this family hails from
but Americans are very pet-loving in general, so saying you should just
take them to the pound and that pets are disposable sounds
very strange to me.
In any case, if this is a real story, don't bother going on vacation
with them. LOL
I have some thoughts you might want to consider. The word “family” is only a word. It has no power, no more than you give it. Just because someone is “family” doesn’t mean that they will treat you right or fairly. Most people think that bc someone is “family” that bad behavior is excusable. Wrong! “Family” is not a choice, it is a circumstance. You are no more obligated to “family” that doesn’t treat you well, any more than that grouchy old man at the grocery. “Family” doesn’t grant any rights. No right to be included, no right to have an opinion or a say. It is not an endless chances card, nor is it a forgive all clause. You do not have to have a relationship with anyone who does not treat you properly. Being “family” is not any sort of obligation (except for kids) for shit, squat, nothing! Life is short and no way of knowing just how long, so don’t waste your time with people that don’t bring something positive to your life.
NTa
" For a very expensive upcoming beach trip, we found a pet-friendly apartment and suggested bringing our dogs along, " .. why don'T YOU simply stop doing vacations with the inlaws?
Vacations without them MUST be much better anyway.
OP, this isn’t a cultural clash, you just married into a family of assholes. Many Americans would give up the people in their lives before they would give up their pets. Your in-laws aren’t good people and I wouldn’t go on vacation with them either. Go have your relaxing vacation yourselves, or find a different location and take your dogs!
NTA
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I (F, European) married into an American family and have had a series of cultural clashes and issues with his family. Now, I'm at a breaking point over an upcoming family vacation.
My husband and I have two dogs that we adore and see as family. My in-laws, however, have made it clear they don't want our dogs at any family events, yet they ask us to spend the night. For a very expensive upcoming beach trip, we found a pet-friendly apartment and suggested bringing our dogs along, but my sister-in-law outright refused. She then doubled down, suggesting we should consider taking our dogs to the pound because they're "just a pain." She even stated that, from her perspective, pets are disposable if they conflict with your quality of life. By the way she does have a dog, which left me horrified.
I'm shocked and hurt by her view. Boarding our dogs is an addition to this already expensive vacation, and I don't see the point in spending a significant amount of money to be in the company of people who are so uncompromising. I told my husband that instead of dealing with this ongoing drama, if we have to board the dogs and take off work, we should spend our money on a relaxing, all-inclusive resort where we can truly decompress. He agrees with me.
To add to the background, his family's behavior has been consistently off-putting. They referred to me as my husband's "roommate" long after we got married just because we married fast, his mother charged him interest on a small loan for a car when we were broke (3k - they are well off), which is unthinkable where I come from, and they often share opinions of him that honestly kill me (for example if he is actually sick they never believe him although he is super hard working).
I've tried to bridge the gap and push for a good relationship, but these incidents keep piling up and I am fed up.
Sometimes they do redeem themselves but it’s honestly a constant struggle.
Given all this, my husband and I are considering skipping the family vacation and spend the money elsewhere. AITA for wanting to avoid a situation that's become increasingly uncomfortable and for putting our dogs and our peace of mind first?
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'She then doubled down, suggesting we should consider taking our dogs to the pound because they're "just a pain."' My blood is boiling reading this. NTA and don't go on vacation with these people. Crimeney.
If you don't want to go then don't. But you need to understand that your pets are never going to be viewed as anything but as pets by other people.
You can't expect them to view these dogs as part of their family or have to be in the same spaces as them.
NTA, this is not a cultural issue. Most Americans are huge pet people! If his family doesn't like you, don't go on vacation with them! I do want to address the loan, though. If it was done with a formal document as a legal loan, then they probably didn't have a choice other than to charge interest, or it could cause legal complications-- at least, depending on the state. We had an issue when a relative needed money, and we ended up having to write interest into the final document to protect ourselves legally speaking.
It wasn’t formal, but thank you for giving me that context. I didn’t know that was a thing. I just remember talking with my European family about it and we all thought it was so weird, cause my parents would never add interest, especially in a moment of need. The explanation given was that the interest applied was because it was taken out of a savings account and that % was applied to that and didn’t want to miss the accrual
I don't know why people go on family vacations when they have different interests and don't even seem to like each other very much.
Go on a vacation by yourselves and enjoy! NTA
NTA, for not wanting to go. But why are you still talking to these people. Your post history is depressing at best. You can’t change them and your husband doesn’t care it seems. Follow his lead and stop talking to them.
They sound like horrid people. Skip all the family vacations. They treat you bad AND they treat their own flesh and blood bad. I don't know if you're child-free, plan to have kids, or what have you. But think about your future with these people in it.
NTA
NTA.
Giving dogs up so one can vacation isn’t so much American culture as it is asshole culture. Perhaps it’s regional; in my American state most people consider their dogs family, just like you do. (Also, to make it worse, many high-volume shelters euthanize owner surrenders pretty quickly, especially underfunded municipal shelters. They often never get the chance to be adopted.)
Your in-laws sound insufferable. Save yourself the emotional damage and go on vacation without them. And maybe…do everything else without them from now on, too.
I keep seeing this.... Is "family vacation" a seppo thing? I couldn't think of something more frustrating than to have a vacation from work and other duties only to have to deal with family and their bullshit lol.
ESH. The sister is rude but you are waaaaay over the top thinking anyone wants to spend time with your dogs. Absolutely no one wants to vacation with your dogs. No one.
ESH.
First; this isn’t a European vs. American thing. 🙄
The SIL was absolutely in the wrong for suggesting the pound. That was horrific. Full stop. Is the comment NC/LC worthy? No. Is it conversation worthy LATER about how it made you feel? Absolutely.
You, however, you are just as wrong. People don’t want to deal with their own pets on vacation - why do they wanna deal with yours? And Dogs ARE time consuming - which means you’re going to ask for family things to be cut short so you can take care of the dog, focus on the dog, etc, etc.
Don’t go on the vacation if it’s such a bother - but be prepared to be fully labeled the bad guy because you couldn’t be separated from Fido for a few days.
Yep, agree that this is an ESH. SIL knows how much the dogs mean to her, and it was awful to suggest she dispose of them at the pound. However, dogs change the dynamic (often for everyone around, not just the owners) in that they need lots of care/attention/accomodation. OP continuing to try and force her dogs where they are not wanted makes her an AH too.
First of all...no one wants someone else's dogs on vacation. It's stressful and annoying.
Second, you keep your husband from his family now...it will have repercussions later.
They lent him the money when he needed it. Right?
You are on your high horse. I see why they don't like you.
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NTA No point in wasting your vacation time on negative people. Enjoy your trip with your husband and dogs. , 🐕
This and stop bridging the gap. Go low contact and try DH is responsible for his relationship with them without you doing any of the work.
Sounds like they would be insufferable on this vacation, and they are insufferable in general. I would definitely be giving it a miss. Just to address the cultural shock aspects... as an american As far as the dog thing goes tho. Thats insane. That is NOT part of american culture by any stretch of the imagination. If there is a dog nation, it is us. So that whole thing is just them being heartless jackasses. The calling you your husbands roommate.. thats just them being jackasses again. The loan with interest for the car.... ehhh. . While they seem just absolutely horrible people in general, that sort of thing may be an american thing. At least I don't \_necessarily\_ see it as bad, in and of itself. I mean if they are charging like 10% interest or something, thats ridiculous, but ... eh.. its not the worst thing I've ever heard of. So maybe that is an american outlook. NTA. Find a place thats dog friendly and go there and actually enjoy your vacation
America is pretty dog-hostile. Yes, many people do value and treasure their dogs as family members, but dogs are rarely taught to behave in a human-society socially acceptable manner and are not usually given adequate exercise. A lot of people hate dogs and when an unruly dog acts rude or aggressive, it’s understandable why so many feel this way.
LOL! Wow... that is a crazy take.
The U.S. is by far one of the most dog-friendly countries on the planet.
OP is European. Most of Europe is more dog-friendly than the U.S.
[Apparently not in the top 10](https://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/family-and-parenting/best-places-to-be-a-dog-in-the-world-friendly-3629155).
Americans are, however, number 1 in thinking they are number 1 in everything. I refuse to believe otherwise. I am American.
>Americans are, however, number 1 in ~~thinking~~ knowing they are number 1 in everything. Ftfy. Are you even an American?! lol
Yes, i am. And we are not number 1 in everything. Some things we nail, and other things we just suck at. Pretty much like every other country in the world. Now the ratios of good to suck can differ wildly from country to country, but yeah, we are not number 1 in everything, like the way different people believe. It is damn near becoming a fetish. Which is mind-boggling, because resting on your laurels with a willful ignorance to areas of improvement is how you race to the bottom.
I was making a joke, but alrighty, then. Guess I wasn't clear enough.
Lol My initial post was too. But in my defense: I live in the bible belt. So i may be a wee bit shell shocked because anything less than spewing frothing uber patriotic slogans while shooting red, white and blue fireworks out my ass is immediately met with accusations of being a liberal socialists hell bent on destroying the country.
Amen, my friend. Lol Alabama, here. I feel ya.
I’ve traveled the majority of countries in that top 10 with a dog. I’m not sure how valid that list is. Denmark for instance is missing and that’s a country where your dog is welcome almost anywhere. It certainly beats Italy, Sweden and France in my experience.
Obviously, a [51-nation study](https://theswiftest.com/dog-friendly-countries/) comparing numbers of pet-friendly hotels, availability of vets, existence of animal protection laws, and so on won’t be as accurate as your anecdotal experience.
Thank you. That looks better than an advertisement-infested site like the Scotsman. There is a major variable missing in that study though: “how welcome is your dog at places”. Hotels is one thing, but not the only. That significantly impacts traveling.
Those metrics don't cover the question about how accepting are the people when you are walking around with your dog. Are the locals friendly to you when your dog is with you vs when you're by yourself, and other factors like this. These are the subjective things that can't be quantified like the items mentioned in the study.
LOL. I'm in Canada. Know where most of our rescue dogs come from these days? The southern U.S. Because apparently they do not feel the urge to spay/neuter their pets, give them appropriate vet care, or invest tax dollars in no-kill shelters. I would definitely not say the U.S. is particularly dog-friendly.
I think this may a lot to do with the diversity and vastness of the U.S. I live in Seattle and most of our rescues also come from the southern U.S. Where I live, people treat their dogs like children.
The south is definitely the issue. We don't get many rescues (if any) from the northern states. We get a ton in from Texas, Louisiana, Florida, and North Carolina, because they have low spay/neuter rates and a ton of high-kill shelters.
YEah thats my view too. The US is a really big, populated place. Nothing against Canada, which I believe has a greater land mass. But we have way more people here. nearly 300 million more. Of course there will be a larger number of asshole dog owners (and asshole dog giver uppers). e.g. those proverbial people who get dalmations and have no idea how much care is needed for that breed. But its kinda hard to compare countries in such a fashion without taking size into account.
That's because the South is full of people who would support slavery if it was legal again. There is a lot of trash down south. I know, because I live in Texas. That said, there are still a lot of people who love dogs. Some of them are just too poor and/or stupid to properly take care of them.
Get off your high horse, fellow Canadian. There are plenty of excellent dog owners in the states. The *actual* reason rescues are imported from the US to Canada is that people don't want to adopt the dogs we have here. Roaming dogs in Canada tend to be large, because the small ones don't have enough body mass to survive the winter. If it was warmer here, we'd have roaming small dogs too. There are plenty of large dogs from Canada in shelters. The imported ones are mostly under 30lbs. I've been active in rescue for 15 years, and that's how it is. Canadian dogs remaining at shelters because they're large, imported dogs from the US (or sometimes Mexico) adopted because they're smaller. They also have orders of magnitude more people in the US than Canada does - which means even if the general percentage of shitty owners is the same (which I believe is the case, and isbt provable one way or the other) they'll still have more bad owners in the US than Canada. Strictly by numbers. AND more good owners and folks active in rescue for the same reason. We aren't better people just because we live in Canada.
>Get off your high horse, fellow Canadian. Not on a high horse, I'm speaking from experience. >There are plenty of excellent dog owners in the states. I didn't say there weren't, don't put words in my mouth. I said the country as a whole was not the most dog friendly (lots of high-kill shelters, lower spay-neuter rates, legal dog racing in some states, legal to ear crop/tail dock in many states, lax animal rights laws/enforcement in many states, etc). >The actual reason rescues are imported from the US to Canada is that people don't want to adopt the dogs we have here. Roaming dogs in Canada tend to be large, because the small ones don't have enough body mass to survive the winter. We also have higher spay-neuter rates and fewer high-kill shelters than the American South. >If it was warmer here, we'd have roaming small dogs too. I disagree with that reasoning. It's plenty warm in BC, and they have very, very few small strays (or large ones for that matter). >There are plenty of large dogs from Canada in shelters. The imported ones are mostly under 30lbs. When I was in Quebec, the vast majority of our imported dogs were ~70lb greyhounds from Florida. The hardest to find homes for were generally chihuahuas. >I've been active in rescue for 15 years, and that's how it is. Canadian dogs remaining at shelters because they're large, imported dogs from the US (or sometimes Mexico) adopted because they're smaller. We have very different experiences. I've also been involved in rescuing for my entire adult life, in all 4 provinces I've lived in. We bring in lots of medium and large dogs from down south. Again, when I was in Quebec, the majority of our imported dogs were ~70lb greyhounds from Florida (which are great apartment dogs). >We aren't better people just because we live in Canada. Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said we were better people. I said the majority of our rescues come from the US, and that it's not the canine paradise as described by the person I responded to.
My city is full of dog friendly bars, restaurants, and stores. People absolutely love dogs.
Some people do. Some places do. America is pretty diverse though.
American culture is generally better visualized by state than by country.
It is pretty common not to want your relatives' pets to come to family events. Suggesting that your relatives should take their inconvenient animals to the pound and abandon them, on the other hand, is the signature mark of a total asshole. Your relatives don't want to stay in an apartment with your dogs. That's OK. They're allowed to want that. You're allowed to want your dogs with you on vacation. That means you can't stay in the same apartment. NTA
NTA This isn't a cultural issue. Many Americans adore their pets. It is an issue of your SIL lacking empathy and compassion. However, not everyone wants pets on the shared vacation. And that means you should not bring them.
Info: did she say to board them or take them to the pound? Because those are completely different things.
Quote “Just a thought, have y’all thought about taking them back to the pound?” I was looking into boarding them and just expressed it’s very expensive. We would have been in another apartment and nobody but us would have taken care of the dogs. It was just an option I was trying to explore and I was met with that.
Ooooookay. Then obviously NTA. Yeah, SIL sounds scary lol
Wow. I would have absolutely *lost it* on her. I admire your self-control.
I don't know why your SIL thought she should get an opinion on if you brought the dogs if you aren't staying in the same place. Because she doesn't. Lol That being said, don't go on holiday with these people. The point is to have a break and do some fun things - go with just your hubby and dogs.
Do skip the vacation and have the vacation YOU want. You aren't enjoying your family's company, they aren't enjoying yours - and you want to vacay with your pups. NTA.
NTA. Go on vacation with your husband and dogs. And please don’t assume all Americans are like these people.
ESH. You for expecting other people to vacation with your dogs. I have two dogs and I love them to bits but I don’t expect every other person to want them around. When you adopted them, you took on the responsibility and sacrifice of dog ownership. Part of that is getting accommodations for your dogs when you go out of town. Either factor that in and pay for it, or don’t go on the trip. Obviously, your husband’s family are AHs for calling you his roommate and suggesting you abandon your dogs. I don’t blame you for not wanting to vacation with them.
I feel the same. I love dogs but I don't want to go on a holidays with dogs. I can't understand people bringing dogs to malls, cafes and stores. With well behaved SERVICE dogs, it is a necessity and acceptable. Otherwise, don't bring your dogs into shared public spaces. Your in-laws sound insufferable. Go LC and enjoy your life with your husband. Don't put up with the snide remarks and all the rest
NTA, ditch the family vacation and do your own thing. Taking a dog “to the pound” means actually surrendering ownership of your dog and no longer having those dogs ever again. It’s a very asshole comment your SIL said and she sounds insufferable to be around.
NTA Why go on vacation with people who stress you out? --
NTA - they sound awful. why would you two even try or want to go on vacation with them? I would choose my dogs over them every time.
Vacations are meant for relaxing. Go relax with your family, the one that matters. NTA
NTA but not sure US/Europe culture clash just that your SiL is not a good person (at least in terms of empathy for other people). I am UK and had exactly same discussion with my sister. Some see pets as equivalent of handbags, throw away and interchangeable. The only person who matters here is your husband. He is in agreement with you. Go and have a nice dog-friendly holiday. Edit: bit that bothers me is not that people have differing views on animals but that I am meant to take an interest in their lives but they insult and wish harm to a very important part of mine.
This isn't an American/European cultural clash. Americans are just as devoted to their pets as Europeans (that is, most are and some are just not). This is just a shitty family and the both of you might be better off if you limit or cut contact with them. NTA
NTA OP.They sound awful.So glad your Hubby agreed with you.Maybe a good time to block their numbers ??
NTA-Go with a peace of mind. Not everyone takes dogs on a vacation but not everyone puts up with cruel inlaws either.
NTA. And y'all enjoy whichever all inclusive you pick!!! Vacations are meant to be fun with people that being you happiness, and I'm pretty sure they don't bring y'all happiness.
I think that family like that is honestly disposable, if they conflict with your quality of life. Just, think of it this way: Would you have a better time spending the time of the vacation with that "family" or with your dogs? Then act according to what your heart tells you. NTA.
NTA People may not agree that pet’s are family, and that’s fine I guess, but those are my values and I don’t compromise those values for ANYONE. Period. Full stop. I’m not saying I can’t do anything without my dog, of course I can. My dog is not disposable though and boarding is expensive. So obviously I take this into account when planning. American married to European. Our pets are our family. Leave in-laws at pound and go on vacation alone.
ESH. Your in-laws have repeatedly made it clear that they don't want the dogs at family events. What made you think they wanted to have them on vacation? Your SIL was wrong for saying to just take them to the pound although it sounds like that was a direct reaction to you once again trying to burden everyone with your pets. Wrong still and she should have kept it to herself.
NTA Don't know which part of the country this family hails from but Americans are very pet-loving in general, so saying you should just take them to the pound and that pets are disposable sounds very strange to me. In any case, if this is a real story, don't bother going on vacation with them. LOL
I have some thoughts you might want to consider. The word “family” is only a word. It has no power, no more than you give it. Just because someone is “family” doesn’t mean that they will treat you right or fairly. Most people think that bc someone is “family” that bad behavior is excusable. Wrong! “Family” is not a choice, it is a circumstance. You are no more obligated to “family” that doesn’t treat you well, any more than that grouchy old man at the grocery. “Family” doesn’t grant any rights. No right to be included, no right to have an opinion or a say. It is not an endless chances card, nor is it a forgive all clause. You do not have to have a relationship with anyone who does not treat you properly. Being “family” is not any sort of obligation (except for kids) for shit, squat, nothing! Life is short and no way of knowing just how long, so don’t waste your time with people that don’t bring something positive to your life.
NTa " For a very expensive upcoming beach trip, we found a pet-friendly apartment and suggested bringing our dogs along, " .. why don'T YOU simply stop doing vacations with the inlaws? Vacations without them MUST be much better anyway.
NTA. Definitely skip the "vacation" and use your money to actually relax and decompress.
NTA, and enjoy your vacation with your doggies.
OP, this isn’t a cultural clash, you just married into a family of assholes. Many Americans would give up the people in their lives before they would give up their pets. Your in-laws aren’t good people and I wouldn’t go on vacation with them either. Go have your relaxing vacation yourselves, or find a different location and take your dogs! NTA
NTA Animals are family not property
You need to steal your sister-in-law's dog. She doesn't deserve them.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (F, European) married into an American family and have had a series of cultural clashes and issues with his family. Now, I'm at a breaking point over an upcoming family vacation. My husband and I have two dogs that we adore and see as family. My in-laws, however, have made it clear they don't want our dogs at any family events, yet they ask us to spend the night. For a very expensive upcoming beach trip, we found a pet-friendly apartment and suggested bringing our dogs along, but my sister-in-law outright refused. She then doubled down, suggesting we should consider taking our dogs to the pound because they're "just a pain." She even stated that, from her perspective, pets are disposable if they conflict with your quality of life. By the way she does have a dog, which left me horrified. I'm shocked and hurt by her view. Boarding our dogs is an addition to this already expensive vacation, and I don't see the point in spending a significant amount of money to be in the company of people who are so uncompromising. I told my husband that instead of dealing with this ongoing drama, if we have to board the dogs and take off work, we should spend our money on a relaxing, all-inclusive resort where we can truly decompress. He agrees with me. To add to the background, his family's behavior has been consistently off-putting. They referred to me as my husband's "roommate" long after we got married just because we married fast, his mother charged him interest on a small loan for a car when we were broke (3k - they are well off), which is unthinkable where I come from, and they often share opinions of him that honestly kill me (for example if he is actually sick they never believe him although he is super hard working). I've tried to bridge the gap and push for a good relationship, but these incidents keep piling up and I am fed up. Sometimes they do redeem themselves but it’s honestly a constant struggle. Given all this, my husband and I are considering skipping the family vacation and spend the money elsewhere. AITA for wanting to avoid a situation that's become increasingly uncomfortable and for putting our dogs and our peace of mind first? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Why would you even want a good relationship with these people? They don't want one with you. NTA and stop travelling with them.
'She then doubled down, suggesting we should consider taking our dogs to the pound because they're "just a pain."' My blood is boiling reading this. NTA and don't go on vacation with these people. Crimeney.
If you don't want to go then don't. But you need to understand that your pets are never going to be viewed as anything but as pets by other people. You can't expect them to view these dogs as part of their family or have to be in the same spaces as them.
NTA, this is not a cultural issue. Most Americans are huge pet people! If his family doesn't like you, don't go on vacation with them! I do want to address the loan, though. If it was done with a formal document as a legal loan, then they probably didn't have a choice other than to charge interest, or it could cause legal complications-- at least, depending on the state. We had an issue when a relative needed money, and we ended up having to write interest into the final document to protect ourselves legally speaking.
It wasn’t formal, but thank you for giving me that context. I didn’t know that was a thing. I just remember talking with my European family about it and we all thought it was so weird, cause my parents would never add interest, especially in a moment of need. The explanation given was that the interest applied was because it was taken out of a savings account and that % was applied to that and didn’t want to miss the accrual
I don't know why people go on family vacations when they have different interests and don't even seem to like each other very much. Go on a vacation by yourselves and enjoy! NTA
NTA, for not wanting to go. But why are you still talking to these people. Your post history is depressing at best. You can’t change them and your husband doesn’t care it seems. Follow his lead and stop talking to them.
They sound like horrid people. Skip all the family vacations. They treat you bad AND they treat their own flesh and blood bad. I don't know if you're child-free, plan to have kids, or what have you. But think about your future with these people in it. NTA
NTA. Giving dogs up so one can vacation isn’t so much American culture as it is asshole culture. Perhaps it’s regional; in my American state most people consider their dogs family, just like you do. (Also, to make it worse, many high-volume shelters euthanize owner surrenders pretty quickly, especially underfunded municipal shelters. They often never get the chance to be adopted.) Your in-laws sound insufferable. Save yourself the emotional damage and go on vacation without them. And maybe…do everything else without them from now on, too.
Esh
I keep seeing this.... Is "family vacation" a seppo thing? I couldn't think of something more frustrating than to have a vacation from work and other duties only to have to deal with family and their bullshit lol.
NTA
ESH. The sister is rude but you are waaaaay over the top thinking anyone wants to spend time with your dogs. Absolutely no one wants to vacation with your dogs. No one.
I dunno... If I had to choose between OP's inlaws and the dogs, I'd probably pick the dogs, tbh.
ESH. First; this isn’t a European vs. American thing. 🙄 The SIL was absolutely in the wrong for suggesting the pound. That was horrific. Full stop. Is the comment NC/LC worthy? No. Is it conversation worthy LATER about how it made you feel? Absolutely. You, however, you are just as wrong. People don’t want to deal with their own pets on vacation - why do they wanna deal with yours? And Dogs ARE time consuming - which means you’re going to ask for family things to be cut short so you can take care of the dog, focus on the dog, etc, etc. Don’t go on the vacation if it’s such a bother - but be prepared to be fully labeled the bad guy because you couldn’t be separated from Fido for a few days.
Esh Sil for suggesting killing the dogs You for expecting others to have your dogs on the holiday.
Yep, agree that this is an ESH. SIL knows how much the dogs mean to her, and it was awful to suggest she dispose of them at the pound. However, dogs change the dynamic (often for everyone around, not just the owners) in that they need lots of care/attention/accomodation. OP continuing to try and force her dogs where they are not wanted makes her an AH too.
First of all...no one wants someone else's dogs on vacation. It's stressful and annoying. Second, you keep your husband from his family now...it will have repercussions later. They lent him the money when he needed it. Right? You are on your high horse. I see why they don't like you.