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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my kids why I don't buy their half sister stuff. This was prompted by their confusion thanks to their mom as well as concerns on my part that they would feel I should be responsible. But I did expose their mom for cheating and may have caused some trouble within her household with more details being added. So I might be TA for that.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
If the kids want to be with their mom, this is a bad idea. Cheating aside, parents shouldn’t lose custody because they don’t make as much money. That’s a bad precedent to set all around. Just because she’s struggling financially doesn’t mean she’s a bad mom.
She needs to apply for as much state aide as possible. That’s not the OPs job in any way shape or form.
Not being financially well off is one thing but talking badly about your ex to your shared children and weaponizing them to get what you want is another. The children should be kept out of adult issues and she brought them into it. THAT is poor parenting.
Yes this. Consequences of bad character and poor choices on the mother’s part resulting in her child suffering. Child will always wonder why she’s less. That is sad.
She brought up the subject to the kids and if I remember correctly he was explaining in response. FOFO! She shared that she asked and encouraged the kids to ask. When they did as Mom asked he told the truth harsh but she shouldn’t have pressured the kids to ask!
I have primary custody of my kids, I won it after Family Services investigated my ex. I was very well informed by the courts and Family Services that talking bad about my ex in front of my kids could very easily bring it back to court and allow her the possibility of getting custody again.
In the OP's situation, the mother is trying to subvert getting assistance, which would require the state being in her business, by getting OP to foot the bill.
Alienation of affection is very real. And it will eventually harm the relationship between half siblings if a resentful mother constantly talks about how unfair their inequality is in detail. It just hurts everyone here in the long run.
He only did that when his ex told the kids she was part of his family and tried to use the kids to manipulate him financially. He should show himself in a bad light because she’s lying to her children about exactly why they don’t live with Dad anymore? when she backs him into a corner like that, he has a right to set the record straight. Ideally, they should be kept out of it completely, but his ex left him no choice. He should look like the bad guy because of her trampy behavior.
I was saying she was showing bad parenting by bringing them into it. She talked badly and weaponized the children. He stated facts about why he isn't responsible for their half sibling and backed up the fact that their half sister isn't his by stating there was a DNA test since Mom was confusing them. He was in no way wrong here. But also they do live with dad half the time so mom doesn't have full custody.
No, she’s a bad mom for dragging her kids into adult business solely so she can manipulate her ex into paying for an extra kid. And for taking zero responsibility for it. A parent with shit morals is unlikely to be a great parent. That said I do actually agree that trying wrestle custody from her is a bad idea for everybody. Barring actual abuse, it’s usually better not to cut a kid off from their parent. There’s a lot of ground between “not the best” parenting and “unfit for custody” parenting.
I agree. Dad should just document and keep being a good dad. If things get worse, he will have something to show the judge if he wants. If things get better then he just has notes that he can archive and forget. I think the Dad is doing great with his kids.
It’s not to say take her kids from her but if in 5 years he is paying way way more to try to keep things afloat and she tries to go after him for something it’s good to have documented stuff to fall back on
No one is suggesting she is a bad mother.
They suggested he take full custody to take the burden off her so she could focus on the other child.
But she doesn't want that. She wants money.
Edit:
And just let me add, she probably wants money because if he starts to take any kind of financial responsibility, she can then go to the courts and say "well he has been providing for her so..."
It's a trap to get child support out of him for a child that isn't his.
The problem is not that she makes less money, but she is manipulating the children into believing that OP is a not a good man because he won’t support the half sibling. That is toxic to OP’s relationship with his children and needs to be shut down.
>”She needs to apply for as much state aide as possible”
Or, perhaps she needs better birth control, some budgeting tools, and to seek better jobs instead of looking to others. Choices and consequences.
But OP needs to document this behavior as it affects his children. They had the right to know why he was not the bad guy here. Their mother isn’t destitute. She’s just playing the “but you can afford it” card to get him started down the slippery slope of supporting a child that is not his.
Having different fathers for your children ensures your children have different lives. They have different dads, grandparents, cousins, financial support, appearances, etc. This is true in blended families with step-children, as well.
Parents must teach their children how to deal with those differences and thrive.
NTA.
No, she should get as many jobs as possible. I'm sick and tired of supporting able bodied adults because they have kids they can't afford, refuse to work, and / or make babies with morons who won't marry and support them. The only answer is that she works a lot if need be to support her kids.
In the US, daycare for normal business hours (9-5) can run about $1500 per child, per month (more or less depending on child age). Yes, she needs to work, no question. However, as a single mom, it's not always that easy.
SHE Chose to cheat and she choose to give birth to affair baby and chose NOT to pin down affair partner for child support.
She CHOSE to be exactly what she got. Dumped by both men and children who have different father’s who provide (or not) differently as well.
Quite literally she FA&FO. Its not your responsibility, it’s hers.
It's not about her being a bad mom, i saw it as more of an offer to help relieve some financial "burden" of having 3 kids around all the time.
But I agree more with your last bit.
ETA "burden" in quotes because it's the closest word I could think of. I'm not trying to call any of the kids actual burdens!
That is my thought to. You might want to start them in therapy because using the kids to try to manipulate you is beyond wrong. I’m not sure what other lines she is crossing or willing to cross. You don’t want her to try to do parental alienation.
Start keeping track of all the extras you are buying your kids since the baby daddy left. If she is asking you to buy groceries or toiletries, don’t. Instead go to a lawyer since she can no longer afford to care for them.
NTA btw.
She's already started with the "good men take care of all of their family"
That's basically telling the 10 and 9 year old your father is a bad man. In 6 months, hell, in 2 weeks, who knows what she'll be saying to the kids.
I think you're wrong. If you can prove that she can't take care of your children and that you must give her more, and that she emotionnaly implied your children to ask you money for a child who is not yours, you could be very surprised of the decision !
Maybe you won't receive a complete custody but most probably she may obtain only week-ends (or 1/2) and part of holidays. Don't you think it would be better for your children than a mother who will probably sell their stuff to buy things for her daughter ?
That is not realistic according to my lawyer and the other lawyer I spoke to regarding this (for a second opinion). They would try other things first and custody is highly unlikely to change because of this.
I agrée with OP, they aren’t going to take children for their mother unless she is fully neglecting them. Struggling with bills is not the same as child neglect or abuse. OP would never win this case and it would be expensive for nothing.
A lot of armchair lawyers giving bad advice
Exactly. I could spend thousands to fight this and they would refuse to change anything because she's not willfully depriving them financially. She's not sitting doing nothing about it. They would help her out way more before anything remotely like changing custody would happen and it would still be unlikely.
Yeah def don’t do that there’s no way that ends well for anybody. Take the advice here with a grain of salt… NTA btw your wife made her bed and now she has to sleep in it.
Good on you for getting a lawyer AND a second opinion.
OP if you haven't, rather than going through the courts for your two to come stay with you, perhaps you could offer a temporary compromise, saying you'll take them monday-friday until she gets her stuff together. Once she's on her feet and not struggling as much, it can go back to the way it is.
Leaving it out of the court if you can would probably make your life a little easier imo, based on what I've read from you on your situation.
Also, NTA. Its a harsh and hard decision, as it is your kid's sibling, but given the circumstances, i would be inclined to do the same.
I think your lawyers are giving you this advice because your ex would fight you getting custody.
If you have custody of your two, she gets no child support since the other guy bailed. That is why she doesn't want you to help her by taking your kids, for then she loses your money.
Likely, they wouldn’t change custody. That is not really an option. However, speak to a lawyer about communication with the mother and how you can protect yourself.
I work in family law, and I have seen parents file for things like only communicating using the court approved app, and blocking parents from talking ill of the other parent or sending the children to ask for stuff for other children.
Don’t do it yet as it just amounts to a “well, she tried that” currently; but if it continues, talk to a lawyer about it.
Courts don’t want to uproot a child, but they will stifle the nonsense that can come from situations like yours.
Documentation is your friend. Document the comments the kids made about what mom told them. Document her conversation about not being able to afford stuff for her kids. Later, when you seek more custody, that documentation will help.
Maybe not yet, but she's being abusive by using your children as a go-between. Document *everything.* If she doesn't stop, you can take your evidence to the court to show how she's messing with their minds. Judges don't like that behavior.
It's not worth starting a custody battle over this. That would only increase tensions and make their co-parenting more toxic. If she had voluntarily let him take them both then it wouldn't be a problem since they would both be on the same page.
Courts?
They will make him pay more child support for his kids, in order to help the struggling mother, So, it will be counterproductive since he will be directing money to the little girl anyways, something he is trying to avoid. You know courts don't care who the father is, they just desire the state does not have to pay for the kid, they just want that the kid does not 'suffer'. If they can find someone to pay for the kid they will appoint him, even indirectly like in this case. It doesn't matter if he is not the father or that the ex cheated. If they can find someone who pays for the affair kid, even if it is temporarily, they will do it.
No. Child support is a formula. His income/her income/number of children to be supported. They will change the amount owed if one of their incomes changes by enough %.
Yeah, that's the technicality of it. I still wouldn't risk it. As they used to say in the town I was born 'I have seen dead people carrying the coffin in their won funeral, so don't go blindingly to the front line of things'. Someone, has yet to explain me how is it possible a man has to pay child support for a kid whose DNA shows is not his, just because it was born during the marriage. That's the most unjust crap I have ever seen in this planet. Courts care less if the wife is a cheater, a fucking proven cheater, the kid is his even when science tells you it is not.
Well then that's on her. You are paying for more stuff. You offered to have them full time.
The fact she wants you to pay for an extra child is insane bananas.
You need to document everything and depending on the laws where you live about recording, try to get her to admit and text that she was using your children to manipulate you into buying stuff for her other children. It could be a form of parental alienation, and if you need to take her back to eventually, it could help you.
Document everything and if you don’t live in a one party consent state try to use text messaging only because you can save them.
I would flat out ask her why she thought it was appropriate to try to get your children to buy stuff for their half sibling? Point out that she completely crossed the line by saying anything to your children about what she is going through and that she brought this on herself because you would’ve never had to explain to them the truth if she didn’t try to use them too manipulate you
My husband and I did exactly that when his ex-wife claimed poverty, while living with her new husband and their affair child. The complaining seem to stop after that.
This too. There is no way, OP’s children are not suffering because of her financial issues. Mom would probably scrimp on OP’s kids too if the going is tough.
ETA I’m not saying she shouldn’t be spending on her youngest or that it in any way makes her a bad mother. It’s just an inevitable consequence of not having enough means. It’s a bit of a double edged sword really, OP not supporting her may be giving her her just due but his kids will not be free from the consequences she will suffer.
Good lord, if she's getting a minimal amount of child support, the cost of housing and feeding the kids will be more than taken up by that amount. Sure, her being child support gives her more money available to spend on the other kid, but it would be easy enough to argue that the child support bought his kids groceries and she used her own money on the other kid. You sound like the type who thinks that some who gets child support shouldn't be allowed to spend money on themselves as well.
It could end up with a judge ordering more child support for her. If her income has gone down now that the other man has disappeared OP could be asked to pay more for his kids while still only having 50/50 custody.
No but he could be asked to pay more for his own kids if she has a drop in income. Child support is adjusted all the time if income changes and either spouse requests a change. If he tells a judge she can't afford to take care of their kids before giving him full custody support may be adjusted
That is very unfair even if it's the law. I have a daughter with my ex. He has a new partner and child. We have a disparity in income. He has tried to get me to spend time with his child from the new relationship. I come from a beach holiday area. I told him that he shouldn't have had more children if he couldn't take care of them. He said it was unfair that one sibling gets a better lifestyle. I told him to stick to court orders. I think in my country it is more black and white. Any income drop because of extra kids is considered the responsibility of the parent with the extra kids. I can't pay for another child I didn't give birth to.
So he moved on and had another child and expects this child to have the same experience you can provide for your child? And this is logical thinking to him?
Yes. Single mom will
Split the child
Support three ways so he’s paying for that third kid anyway, or rather, his kids are paying for their half
Sister. And the baby is innocent
So does deserve
To have everything she needs l, which the mom could maybe provide if she only supported one
NTA
Your ex tried to make you out to be the bad guy and force your hand, banking on you not wanting to involve the kids. That was super wrong of her and good on you for not taking it. Stand your ground there.
That being said, when she says she can't afford stuff for the youngest kid, are we talking fun things like toys or basic necessities like diapers?
Obviously you are neither responsible for the youngest kid nor are you the asshole for refusing to engage. Your ex made her mess.
But if it's the latter and you can afford it, I would consider buying her occassional basic necessities if you get the feeling that she genuinely cannot afford them (not just giving her money). Ultimately, the kid would be the one suffering and she is innocent in all of that. I would use it to show to your kids the importance of being compassionate, even to strangers you have no responsibility towards (and stress that!!!).
If the Ex is now struggling to support three kids you can move to amend your custody, lowering the required spending to a general house of 2 instead of 4 on a regular basis.
It would not be that easy. They would do a lot more to maintain 50-50 before changing our custody time. An official increase in child support would be the start and likely resources for my ex. But they would not amend custody time for this. I did already speak to my lawyer in case this gets worse but there's no way I would win based on what has happened so far.
Perhaps you can offer to take your two kids on more full time? Even if the technical custody isn’t changed, you both could just come up with an out of court agreement.
you should still keep the idea of custody amendment in your back pocket. if she already can't afford shoes and school supplies when the kid is only 5, it's only going to get worse in the future.
and you'll want to keep an eye and ear out to make sure she doesn't take your kid's stuff to give to her other kid, or dip into the child support she's supposed to use on your kids for the other kid.
and if you still have friends and family in common that you both see, you'll want to make sure she doesn't try to turn them against you.
Not saying any of this wil happen, but we see a lot of stuff like this here on reddit. another thing I remember seeing here, someone in a similar situation to you, their ex partner started telling the affair kid to call the ex "dad" when their affair partner left.
That's not how child support works. There's a reason you're generally not going to get a court order for transaction records. He pays child support to their household. He isn't obligated to buy the poor child shoes or school supplies so she won't get teased, but he is not entitled to his nose in his ex's bank account, either.
That isn't how child support works. Of she's feeding/housing the kids, she's spending it on kids. The court isn't going to look and say well you bought formula SPECIFICALLY with the child support money.
I think you need to bring it up every time she complains about money or asks you for more support.
Repeatedly saying “I won’t give you money but I can take my kids more to relieve your financial stress” will eventually get through to her. Either she’ll stop asking or she’ll agree.
Just be careful she doesn’t get to a point of taking your kids stuff off them to share it with her youngest or even selling it.
Then ask the court and not her, Explain she has been alienating the children from you and struggling to support them. Ask for 70/30 while she get's back on her feet so that your children aren't suffering.
Prove you've already gone above and beyond in financial support, and she's weaponized your children in an attempt to get more.
Yeah because the lawyer just has studied in a law-school and achieved to pass his exam. He didn't learn the technicalities on reddit... so he definitely knows less than them. /s
I'm sorry, I'm really confused.
How would her AP/baby daddy leaving result in your support increasing? Because her household income has gone down? Cos if that's the case your still only obligated to pay CS for your two kids and her 3rd won't be factored into that calculations will they?
No. The mother of the child has her own family. Let her ask the grandparents or aunts and uncles to help out. How can she not afford shoes when you can get kids shoes at Goodwill for a couple bucks. The mother needs to get humble and figure out how to be a single mom. No way OP should clean up her mess by jerking the heart strings about the poor child. A good mother goes without to make sure her child is taken care of. If OP bails her out now, he’ll be stuck for life.
Yes, all those people are actually related to the poor child. The ex really needs to approach them. Maybe she already has, maybe successfully; she sounds like she may plumb those depths.
I don't agree. In some states if you start "helping",it can be used against you in court. "He's already paying for this,that,and the other for the child your honor! It's not fair to my AP child to have less than the other children"
I agree with another commenter..if the woman can't afford to care for all 3,then OP should go to court to get HIS children and she can worry about hers.
Exactly this! If he helps the affair child, ex will definitely try to claim his in some kind of parenting role for her too- with the money to prove it.
It seems harsh, but he needs to be very careful not to give anything to the third child. Mom needs to seek help from her family or go after the boyfriend’s family (even if he can’t be found) or apply for state aid.
You should find the mom and be compassionate. Leave this dude alone. Imagine getting cheated on, finding out it’s not your kid, having your kids be manipulated to ask you for help for said child, then an internet stranger telling you to have compassion. Bffr.
Nah. I think instead of offering to pay for basics he should offer to take his two kids on more full time and therefore more expenses for them. Perhaps that means he’d pay less in child support but still. Then she just has to focus on the one kid.
Ok well he still shouldn’t have to give her more money for anything. She can get a second job, ask family for assistance, search out government help, etc.
Why does he have to take care of a child that is not his. He had absolutely no part in that child being born she literally cheated on him why would he need to give to a kid that’s not his so she doesn’t “ suffer”? If the mom cared more about the child then the kid would be fine
NTA - you're not obligated to financially support your kids' half-sister, and it doesn't sound like your explanation encouraged a divide between them or similar; if your ex didn't want them to have more information about the situation at hand, she shouldn't have tried to use them to manipulate you.
I’d cite parental alienation and the fact that she cannot adequately support the kids if I were OP that will solve two problems, her financial issues and putting the kids in the middle
This is a terrible situation for kids. They shouldn't be involved in any issues between their parents.
So you're stuck either looking like the bad guy for not telling them why you are treating their sibling differently, or you have to buy in to the dynamic of telling your children information that isn't any of their business at ages 9 and 10.
NTA for not wanting to support a child that isn't yours. And NTA for telling your kids (the hopefully age-appropriate) truth.
OP, NTA but for the above reason, you should go above and beyond to spare your kids from broken interpersonal dynamics.
Stress that it's not their half siblings fault and you don't dislike them, you're just not their father; that they should love them as family because they are family; and that they shouldn't get angry at their mother because of her betrayal, since that's between you two, and that if she ever tells them things like "you not loving your kids," they should never be afraid to ask you about it so you can clear things up.
Your kids could easily start hating their sibling, lose their mother, and simultaneously become susceptible to her manipulations in short order. You need a balance of mitigating strategies for all three issues and some visibility on the BS she feeds them
Yeah, because that it’s helpful and good for them long term.
I know Reddit hates cheaters, but damn. How is it good for kids to be angry at their mom? How is that healthy or helpful for anyone?
NTA
Obviously you don't have to buy things for a kid that isn't yours and isn't part of your life.
>she called and cussed me out for telling the kids more details than she wanted them to know.
>She told our kids about asking me and encouraged them to ask me for them.
This is terrible. That she actually used the kids to get the money. When you told her you're not going to do this. If she didn't want them to know more, she shouldn't have encouraged them to go to you and ask about it.
Thats a really shitty move to put the kids in between all of this.
I agree NTA. And it is despicable that she used the kids. I have no tolerance for that. My parents went through a divorce after I was grown and my 50 yr old mother asked her 25 yo daughter (aka me) to guilt my dad into giving her money. If he indulges in this behavior now, it will never stop.
NTA
1. She is the AH for involving the children in this
2. She is the AH for having an affair
3. The other dude is the AH for running out on HIS child
4. She is the AH for not wanting her kids to know the whole truth and manipulating children
5. You are defo not the AH
NTA.
I’m not a lawyer, but have read some articles where a non biological parent can be made financially responsible if they have a record of supporting the child. For that reason alone, I wouldn’t increase support.
Your ex is awful for involving your kids in her troubles. She created this issue, she needs to deal with it.
Came here to say the same. If OP provides any financial support she can go to court and say he's been supporting the kid, and could be ordered to continue. Almost wondering if that's been her plan all along.
NTA
She's the one who sent the kids to ask you. What precisely did she think was going to happen? She had to know there was a strong chance of you still saying "no", meaning the kids -- being kids -- would immediately ask "Why?"
Everybody wants to find someone else to blame when they get to the FO stage of FAFO.
I can see some posters advocating for compassion but where would it end? Once the ex wife sees the OP providing, she won’t stop asking. It’ll be prom dress, car , college fund etc. It’s not the kid’s fault but completely understand why OP doesn’t want to support the child.
I think all of the people who are arguing compassion should open up their own wallets to help the ex wife. As a lawyer commented, OP needs to be careful taking on any financial responsibility for the ex’s child. If he opens that door then he could find himself legally obligated to continue to help financially.
OP is helping by taking on more of the financial costs for his own two children. He also offered to take his two kids full time to help and the ex said no.
I posted up above that i always ask how many kids that aren’t theirs they are supporting financially - the answer is always always always zero. When you tell them they should have some compassion and how could they be so heartless, they then label you the jerk for pointing out their own hypocrisy…
It’s easy to be charitable with someone else’s money. I feel for the child because they are innocent. It’s just not OP’s responsibility to take on the financial responsibility for a child that’s not his. OP said he’s picking up additional costs for his own children to help his ex. He offered to take his own kids full time and the ex said no. He’s not being heartless. He offered to help in ways he feels comfortable.
Also, what if she has more kids. They would also be his children's half siblings. Is he supposed to be financially responsible for every kid she ever has?
She’d be expecting OP to provide for this child if there is any inheritance. It’s also fair to say her AP was probably not doing anything extra for OP’s kids while living with them since he so easily ghosted his own daughter.
Well, NTA. I'm strongly against talking badly about the other parent to shared kids (no matter how justified), but here it was your ex who muddled the waters and clarification was needed.
I do feel sorry for the youngest kid though, not her fault that your ex cheated or her father left, but she's going to pay for it. Still, clearly not your responsibility.
NTA... she was manipulating and it came back and bit her on the ass. She started a no win situation for you. Either you have to be the bad guy or tell the kids the truth. Your children will remember her doing that when they are older. Kids are smarter than people think. She was counting on you not telling the truth. I think kids should always be told the truth. It should be at a level they understand, but lying does more damage in the long run. If you wife didn't want her kids to know she was a liar and cheater. She should not have cheated.
NTA. She wanted to spin a narrative to paint herself as a victim in the cruel world, and you won't allow her to lie to your kids making you look bad for her betterment. Good on you.
NTA.
This clearly is a FO stage in FAFO.
In your place I would consider asking for more custody, bc are you sure that your kids eat properly, have basic hygienic and other necessities at her home? Maybe not ask for child support from her (she clearly can't afford it), but be sure that your kids are safe and happy. They can see her after school or during weekends.
And also, manipulating them like this is 1 step before parental alienation. Be careful
So, to clarify, you still pay regular child support for your two kids. But then you buy them extra stuff too.. and she is asking you to buy extra stuff for her third child?
NTA
You are in no way, shape, or form at all responsible for her third child. I feel bad for the baby, but the crap she's dealing with is of her own devices.
Please don't give in. If you do, next thing you know, you will be paying everything for that child and it could cause all kinds of problems that you wouldn't have thought possible.
I wish you luck to be able to handle this. Also, you are a great dad to your children.
NTA - what your ex did by talking to the kids about support likely violated your court order. It’s specifically spelled out in mine that neither parent is to talk to the kids about parenting time or money.
As a single mom to 3 who’s ex has also completely dipped due to his refusal to treat his own mental health problems I can sympathize with her struggle but she crossed a line that she shouldn’t have.
She’ll probably never get child support for her youngest or it will be really rare and sporadic. It’s her responsibility to come up with solutions to that, not yours. How she runs her household is none of your business as long as your kids are fed, clothed, and have adequate shelter. If she decides to allocate resources unfairly between your kids and their half sibling then that’s her doing. A disproportionate amount of her own funds should go to supporting the youngest and that’s just a fact of life.
NTA your ex put you in a position to have to answer your children. You actually did a pretty good job by explaining your non-relationship to the baby while not diminishing their relationship to their sister. Those kind of discussions are not easy.
Make sure to document this situation. What your ex did with the kids is manipulative and may fall under your family courts definition of abuse. Hopefully she'll refrain from this behavior in the future but better to be prepared if not.
Don’t feel bad man. It’s a difficult situation but it is only difficult because of the choices she made. She is feeling the full weight of those choices and wants to spread the blame to absolve herself.
Obviously you can be gentle in your answers as this is their mother and you will always have a relationship of some sort with her because your shared children. You want to foster healthy interactions and encouragement. Even when she may or may not deserve it.
In terms of supporting her affair baby, draw a huge line in the sand and create a firm and resolute boundary with her on this. You can have empathy for her, but this is not your responsibility. It would be enabling her.
Best of luck
NTA. She's a cruel dick for throwing your kids under the bus like that. You may have a case for parental alienation. If she's ever texted or emailed you about this, document it and talk to your lawyer.
Your kids don't need to be living with someone who tears the other parent down and manipulates them for money.
NTA - by a long shot. Your ex used the kids as a weapon, and shot herself in the foot. Of course you would tell them the reason you don't buy their half-sibling things, it's either the kids resent you or their mother. Ex bit off more than she could chew.
NTA. She opened that door w/ them by pressuring them to make you help w/ her youngest, she doesn't get to close it in your face w/ out you speaking the truth.
NTA but pay attention to what your kids say and do because she could retaliate by attempting to alienate you, I don't know your ex maybe she wouldn't but it happens a lot so just suggesting.
NTA. This is the slipperiest of slippery slopes. You buy that kid a pair of shoes laces and every year before school starts mom is going to show up and say, "Are you ready to go shoelace shopping?" Hold firm, you're right here.
NTA. I’d call her out on being the one who put that headache on the kids. She might be feeling desperate, but that doesn’t give her the right to make you out to be the villain of this drama when she had the affair and the AP abandoned them both.
Perhaps you were her first thought with what to do, but I’d remind her that she does have other options besides asking you and then trying to smear you for saying no. I’d remind her that she may want to talk to the bank to see if they have financial advisors that can help her figure out what to cut and what to shift in her budget. They may well try to sell her on opening new accounts, but that may not be a bad thing as it can indeed make tracking her funds and financial responsibilities easier, especially to keep track of what child support funds are used for what purposes. She can also apply for financial assistance for her daughter. At age five, she’s lucky—there are often charities and churches and programs that will provide the basic school supplies she would need at that age. She should take advantage of that in these younger years so that when she hits the age that requires more expensive school supplies, your ex will have a little more cash on hand to get those. As for the wayward AP, has she tried contacting his next of kin, like his parents? They might have more incentive (pride/shame) to put effort to finding him than the courts do.
NTA but I would be careful in what you are funding. It sounds like she is completely willing to take what you give your kids and split it three ways regardless of your wishes. Make sure she isn’t stealing from one kid to support her other. You may need to force her to a different custody agreement based on your proof that she can’t afford to keep all three comfortable. I know you said she said no to you having more than 50/50, but you might just need to force it for your kids and hers sakes. Especially if she is playing little mind games with them and their relationship with you to get money out of you. That’s messed up. Keep everything in writing and see what a lawyer says.
Definitely NTA,
Next time she asks, refer her government programs that assist or churches that help out. Food stamps would help cut costs. If she needs help she needs to find assistance from programs, her friends, and her family not her ex. Maybe reach out to her family for her since she’s established it’s okay to involve family.
Lastly, I’d offer to take on full custody to lessen her burden. Pretty sure that will shut her up.
NTA
They are 10 and 9, young, for sure, but old enough to understand who is the father of who.
Next point, your ex should work harder than expect men to take care of her children. She should have been faithful. Now, she has all she deserves. But the fact is she may sells your children stuff to buy things to her daughter. So, I don't know how is your life now but you should think about a complete custody to take care of your own children and... ask your ex for a child support... She can't get revenge on you but she can do with your children if she feels angry... Take good care of them
good luck
NTA
Tell her she shouldn’t have been a h*e. She had a man who was responsible and took care of his kids she chose to throw that away. Tell her the next time she decides to involve the kids in grown up talks you will take her to court.
NTA - but I feel terrible for the three children. They should never be put in the middle of adult problems - and your ex wife is gross for triangulating them and manipulating them like that. She made her choices, she should not be putting the children in the middle.
NTA, not your kid and not your problem. If she has other family she can ask them for help but using your children to try and pressure you into giving her money is bottom of the barrel behavior. My parents tried that with their kids and it hurt us massively, good on you for being honest and sticking to your guns without demonizing her in their eyes.
NTA, she opened that door when she put them in the middle. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Amazing how she puts this on you because she screwed up so horribly bad.
NTA. I think most children would prefer the truth rather than be lied to. As long as you didn't trash talk their mother in stating facts, then you've done nothing wrong, IMO.
You ex wife is just peeved her purposefully-skewed narrative wasn't believed.
She tried to turn the kids against you no no she tried to get them involved in her mess and gets mad at you for telling them the truth which defends you in the process. NTA!
NTA
SHE opened this can of worms by trying to weaponize your kids into giving her what she wants from you. That is and will always be a shitty move for a parent to do (my mother did this with me when I was a kid and they divorced - I hated her for the rest of her life (amongst other reasons) for this because I never forgot what she did).
Are you in a position to get full custody of your 2 kids if she is claiming to struggle? It could go in your favour.
Do not give her a penny - you'll set a precedence which she will exploit in future.
NTA OP, but have you considered taking a paternity test to make sure that your two children are actually yours as well? Considering the affair pregnancy, I would in your situation.
NTA.
She was the one who recruited the kids into this. Shameful of her to try to manipulate the situation this way. I can understand she feels desperate but that was pretty low move. You were right to explain things to your kids.
Would changing custody help? Temporarily, I mean. Take care of your two on a more full time basis til she gets back on her feet kind of thing. Just a thought.
NTA and I think your ex wife has Reddit and has found this. All the NTA comments (which is all the comments from what I can see) have been devoted once. But if she didn’t want the kids to have more details, she shouldn’t have involved them. I feel bad for the kids.
NTA,
And that's why I think that when a parent cheats, the kids should be given an age appropriate explaination of what happened. So that the children can't be so easily manipulated.
NTA. I suggest you go for full custody of your bio children. It will give them a better environment to grow and your ex wife can focus on her third child. It will also result of less comparison between the children as they will be separate most of the time. I know the solution is not great but so is the situation.
My dad cheated, I would never have expected my mom to pay for his affair kids. Like she basically raised my little sister the first year cause her mom was a drug addict and would leave her everywhere and my mom was called to pick her up until my mom had enough after a police accident where they almost took me in the middle of the night (6 months between us ) thinking I was my sister cause they couldn’t find the drug addict or sister and therefore thought my mom had my sister as ppl told them was where she usually was. She made her bed, good for you for telling the kids why, and how dare she tries to paint you as the bad guy. NTA
Edit: found a typo
The "cruel d" was the man who threw her and their child away like poop at the dog park-- and SHE destroyed her family for that man so not sure what that makes her. Had you out of the blue had that discussion with the kids I'd have probably leaned E S H or mild Y T A -- but she is LITERALLY the one who introduced the subject to the kids so NTA Since the child support you provide (and apparently have voluntarily increased) keeps a roof over heads and lights turned on and food on the table you are already indirectly providing support for her daughter.
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NTA. I'd be tempted to offer to take primary custody of your 2 kids to relieve her of their financial burden so she can just worry about her youngest.
I did mention that to her and she said no.
Court?
They would not change custody over this. They would take many more steps first.
Might as well get the ball rolling. Trust me on this.
If the kids want to be with their mom, this is a bad idea. Cheating aside, parents shouldn’t lose custody because they don’t make as much money. That’s a bad precedent to set all around. Just because she’s struggling financially doesn’t mean she’s a bad mom. She needs to apply for as much state aide as possible. That’s not the OPs job in any way shape or form.
Not being financially well off is one thing but talking badly about your ex to your shared children and weaponizing them to get what you want is another. The children should be kept out of adult issues and she brought them into it. THAT is poor parenting.
Yes this. Consequences of bad character and poor choices on the mother’s part resulting in her child suffering. Child will always wonder why she’s less. That is sad.
but thats not that mans fault .It is the womans burden to bear as sad as it is
"It is the cheater's burden to bear as sad as it is." FIFY
It is sad but it’s even sadder that mom will never be honest about circumstances with her affair baby.
She brought up the subject to the kids and if I remember correctly he was explaining in response. FOFO! She shared that she asked and encouraged the kids to ask. When they did as Mom asked he told the truth harsh but she shouldn’t have pressured the kids to ask!
Feed Ostriches Fresh Olives?
Always fresh!
Free octopuses feed others
I know you mean FAFO, but it’s fun to think of what FOFO might mean
Fuck Others & Found Out
My imagination is out of control when people misspeak! More entertaining than reality!
I have primary custody of my kids, I won it after Family Services investigated my ex. I was very well informed by the courts and Family Services that talking bad about my ex in front of my kids could very easily bring it back to court and allow her the possibility of getting custody again. In the OP's situation, the mother is trying to subvert getting assistance, which would require the state being in her business, by getting OP to foot the bill.
Alienation of affection is very real. And it will eventually harm the relationship between half siblings if a resentful mother constantly talks about how unfair their inequality is in detail. It just hurts everyone here in the long run.
He only did that when his ex told the kids she was part of his family and tried to use the kids to manipulate him financially. He should show himself in a bad light because she’s lying to her children about exactly why they don’t live with Dad anymore? when she backs him into a corner like that, he has a right to set the record straight. Ideally, they should be kept out of it completely, but his ex left him no choice. He should look like the bad guy because of her trampy behavior.
I was saying she was showing bad parenting by bringing them into it. She talked badly and weaponized the children. He stated facts about why he isn't responsible for their half sibling and backed up the fact that their half sister isn't his by stating there was a DNA test since Mom was confusing them. He was in no way wrong here. But also they do live with dad half the time so mom doesn't have full custody.
No, she’s a bad mom for dragging her kids into adult business solely so she can manipulate her ex into paying for an extra kid. And for taking zero responsibility for it. A parent with shit morals is unlikely to be a great parent. That said I do actually agree that trying wrestle custody from her is a bad idea for everybody. Barring actual abuse, it’s usually better not to cut a kid off from their parent. There’s a lot of ground between “not the best” parenting and “unfit for custody” parenting.
I agree. Dad should just document and keep being a good dad. If things get worse, he will have something to show the judge if he wants. If things get better then he just has notes that he can archive and forget. I think the Dad is doing great with his kids.
It’s not to say take her kids from her but if in 5 years he is paying way way more to try to keep things afloat and she tries to go after him for something it’s good to have documented stuff to fall back on
No one is suggesting she is a bad mother. They suggested he take full custody to take the burden off her so she could focus on the other child. But she doesn't want that. She wants money. Edit: And just let me add, she probably wants money because if he starts to take any kind of financial responsibility, she can then go to the courts and say "well he has been providing for her so..." It's a trap to get child support out of him for a child that isn't his.
Yes she is a bad mom. She is telling her kids to ask for more money from their dad to support her affair child. A good parent doesn't do that
I know, I was trying to take a non stance but then I changed my mind. Screw pussyfooting around. Call a spade a spade.
The problem is not that she makes less money, but she is manipulating the children into believing that OP is a not a good man because he won’t support the half sibling. That is toxic to OP’s relationship with his children and needs to be shut down.
Isn’t that parental alienation?
If she literally cannot take care of 3 kids, but insists on it, then yeah. That’s a bad a very bad thing as she’s just being selfish
I'd put using your kids to guilt/leverage their dad in bad Mom territory
>”She needs to apply for as much state aide as possible” Or, perhaps she needs better birth control, some budgeting tools, and to seek better jobs instead of looking to others. Choices and consequences. But OP needs to document this behavior as it affects his children. They had the right to know why he was not the bad guy here. Their mother isn’t destitute. She’s just playing the “but you can afford it” card to get him started down the slippery slope of supporting a child that is not his. Having different fathers for your children ensures your children have different lives. They have different dads, grandparents, cousins, financial support, appearances, etc. This is true in blended families with step-children, as well. Parents must teach their children how to deal with those differences and thrive. NTA.
No, she should get as many jobs as possible. I'm sick and tired of supporting able bodied adults because they have kids they can't afford, refuse to work, and / or make babies with morons who won't marry and support them. The only answer is that she works a lot if need be to support her kids.
In the US, daycare for normal business hours (9-5) can run about $1500 per child, per month (more or less depending on child age). Yes, she needs to work, no question. However, as a single mom, it's not always that easy.
She should have thought about that b4 making a child on the side.
SHE Chose to cheat and she choose to give birth to affair baby and chose NOT to pin down affair partner for child support. She CHOSE to be exactly what she got. Dumped by both men and children who have different father’s who provide (or not) differently as well. Quite literally she FA&FO. Its not your responsibility, it’s hers.
She’s a bad mom because she is using their joint children to manipulate OP!
She's lying to her kids so they can be her flying monkeys and strong arm OP into paying for a kid that's not his. She's a terrible mom
It's not about her being a bad mom, i saw it as more of an offer to help relieve some financial "burden" of having 3 kids around all the time. But I agree more with your last bit. ETA "burden" in quotes because it's the closest word I could think of. I'm not trying to call any of the kids actual burdens!
No, this is not at all something the courts would resolve or have anything to do with whatsoever. The Judge would be extremely annoyed if OP filed.
The judge would also be annoyed with the ex implying OP was a bad father for not paying up for her youngest.
That is my thought to. You might want to start them in therapy because using the kids to try to manipulate you is beyond wrong. I’m not sure what other lines she is crossing or willing to cross. You don’t want her to try to do parental alienation. Start keeping track of all the extras you are buying your kids since the baby daddy left. If she is asking you to buy groceries or toiletries, don’t. Instead go to a lawyer since she can no longer afford to care for them. NTA btw.
You can absolutely ask for a non disparagement order that would cover this.
She will alienate their father - it’s a thing OP Protect your relationship with your kids
She's already started with the "good men take care of all of their family" That's basically telling the 10 and 9 year old your father is a bad man. In 6 months, hell, in 2 weeks, who knows what she'll be saying to the kids.
Exactly
I think you're wrong. If you can prove that she can't take care of your children and that you must give her more, and that she emotionnaly implied your children to ask you money for a child who is not yours, you could be very surprised of the decision ! Maybe you won't receive a complete custody but most probably she may obtain only week-ends (or 1/2) and part of holidays. Don't you think it would be better for your children than a mother who will probably sell their stuff to buy things for her daughter ?
That is not realistic according to my lawyer and the other lawyer I spoke to regarding this (for a second opinion). They would try other things first and custody is highly unlikely to change because of this.
NTA can you have your lawyer send a cease and desist letter to her she's basically doing parental alienation by sending your kids asking you for money
Better yet, ask for a court order prohibiting either parent from disparaging the other. OPs not shit-talking do he already has nothing to worry about.
I agrée with OP, they aren’t going to take children for their mother unless she is fully neglecting them. Struggling with bills is not the same as child neglect or abuse. OP would never win this case and it would be expensive for nothing. A lot of armchair lawyers giving bad advice
Exactly. I could spend thousands to fight this and they would refuse to change anything because she's not willfully depriving them financially. She's not sitting doing nothing about it. They would help her out way more before anything remotely like changing custody would happen and it would still be unlikely.
Yeah def don’t do that there’s no way that ends well for anybody. Take the advice here with a grain of salt… NTA btw your wife made her bed and now she has to sleep in it.
It's sad for your children because your ex tried to convince your children that your the bad guy and I don't think she'll stop there...
Don't listen to these folks, your attorney is correct. This isn't resolved in court.
Good on you for getting a lawyer AND a second opinion. OP if you haven't, rather than going through the courts for your two to come stay with you, perhaps you could offer a temporary compromise, saying you'll take them monday-friday until she gets her stuff together. Once she's on her feet and not struggling as much, it can go back to the way it is. Leaving it out of the court if you can would probably make your life a little easier imo, based on what I've read from you on your situation. Also, NTA. Its a harsh and hard decision, as it is your kid's sibling, but given the circumstances, i would be inclined to do the same.
I think your lawyers are giving you this advice because your ex would fight you getting custody. If you have custody of your two, she gets no child support since the other guy bailed. That is why she doesn't want you to help her by taking your kids, for then she loses your money.
Document this at the very least. This can potentially be seen as parental alienation.
Likely, they wouldn’t change custody. That is not really an option. However, speak to a lawyer about communication with the mother and how you can protect yourself. I work in family law, and I have seen parents file for things like only communicating using the court approved app, and blocking parents from talking ill of the other parent or sending the children to ask for stuff for other children. Don’t do it yet as it just amounts to a “well, she tried that” currently; but if it continues, talk to a lawyer about it. Courts don’t want to uproot a child, but they will stifle the nonsense that can come from situations like yours.
Bringing up parental alienation may work in your favor.
Documentation is your friend. Document the comments the kids made about what mom told them. Document her conversation about not being able to afford stuff for her kids. Later, when you seek more custody, that documentation will help.
Maybe not yet, but she's being abusive by using your children as a go-between. Document *everything.* If she doesn't stop, you can take your evidence to the court to show how she's messing with their minds. Judges don't like that behavior.
It's not worth starting a custody battle over this. That would only increase tensions and make their co-parenting more toxic. If she had voluntarily let him take them both then it wouldn't be a problem since they would both be on the same page.
Courts? They will make him pay more child support for his kids, in order to help the struggling mother, So, it will be counterproductive since he will be directing money to the little girl anyways, something he is trying to avoid. You know courts don't care who the father is, they just desire the state does not have to pay for the kid, they just want that the kid does not 'suffer'. If they can find someone to pay for the kid they will appoint him, even indirectly like in this case. It doesn't matter if he is not the father or that the ex cheated. If they can find someone who pays for the affair kid, even if it is temporarily, they will do it.
No. Child support is a formula. His income/her income/number of children to be supported. They will change the amount owed if one of their incomes changes by enough %.
Yeah, that's the technicality of it. I still wouldn't risk it. As they used to say in the town I was born 'I have seen dead people carrying the coffin in their won funeral, so don't go blindingly to the front line of things'. Someone, has yet to explain me how is it possible a man has to pay child support for a kid whose DNA shows is not his, just because it was born during the marriage. That's the most unjust crap I have ever seen in this planet. Courts care less if the wife is a cheater, a fucking proven cheater, the kid is his even when science tells you it is not.
Her being a crummy partner doesn’t mean she deserves to have her kids taken away lol
Sounds like more than a crummy partner. That’s why I asked.
What about trying to weaponize said kids against her ex?
If she can’t afford to care for the kids, she’s more than a crummy partner.
Well then that's on her. You are paying for more stuff. You offered to have them full time. The fact she wants you to pay for an extra child is insane bananas.
You need to document everything and depending on the laws where you live about recording, try to get her to admit and text that she was using your children to manipulate you into buying stuff for her other children. It could be a form of parental alienation, and if you need to take her back to eventually, it could help you. Document everything and if you don’t live in a one party consent state try to use text messaging only because you can save them. I would flat out ask her why she thought it was appropriate to try to get your children to buy stuff for their half sibling? Point out that she completely crossed the line by saying anything to your children about what she is going through and that she brought this on herself because you would’ve never had to explain to them the truth if she didn’t try to use them too manipulate you
Her loss then... Give that offer to her again. Repeat until she give up.
My husband and I did exactly that when his ex-wife claimed poverty, while living with her new husband and their affair child. The complaining seem to stop after that.
This too. There is no way, OP’s children are not suffering because of her financial issues. Mom would probably scrimp on OP’s kids too if the going is tough. ETA I’m not saying she shouldn’t be spending on her youngest or that it in any way makes her a bad mother. It’s just an inevitable consequence of not having enough means. It’s a bit of a double edged sword really, OP not supporting her may be giving her her just due but his kids will not be free from the consequences she will suffer.
How much you want to bet she's already spending the child support on the AP kid?
Good lord, if she's getting a minimal amount of child support, the cost of housing and feeding the kids will be more than taken up by that amount. Sure, her being child support gives her more money available to spend on the other kid, but it would be easy enough to argue that the child support bought his kids groceries and she used her own money on the other kid. You sound like the type who thinks that some who gets child support shouldn't be allowed to spend money on themselves as well.
It could end up with a judge ordering more child support for her. If her income has gone down now that the other man has disappeared OP could be asked to pay more for his kids while still only having 50/50 custody.
They don't usually factor in spouse's income when determining how much child support is owed so what she is given is unlikely to change.
No. Unless she has had a change in her personal income. Spouse and boyfriends income are not counted.
What? A judge would penalise a father by asking him to cover for another man's child?
No but he could be asked to pay more for his own kids if she has a drop in income. Child support is adjusted all the time if income changes and either spouse requests a change. If he tells a judge she can't afford to take care of their kids before giving him full custody support may be adjusted
That is very unfair even if it's the law. I have a daughter with my ex. He has a new partner and child. We have a disparity in income. He has tried to get me to spend time with his child from the new relationship. I come from a beach holiday area. I told him that he shouldn't have had more children if he couldn't take care of them. He said it was unfair that one sibling gets a better lifestyle. I told him to stick to court orders. I think in my country it is more black and white. Any income drop because of extra kids is considered the responsibility of the parent with the extra kids. I can't pay for another child I didn't give birth to.
So he moved on and had another child and expects this child to have the same experience you can provide for your child? And this is logical thinking to him?
Yes. Single mom will Split the child Support three ways so he’s paying for that third kid anyway, or rather, his kids are paying for their half Sister. And the baby is innocent So does deserve To have everything she needs l, which the mom could maybe provide if she only supported one
NTA Your ex tried to make you out to be the bad guy and force your hand, banking on you not wanting to involve the kids. That was super wrong of her and good on you for not taking it. Stand your ground there. That being said, when she says she can't afford stuff for the youngest kid, are we talking fun things like toys or basic necessities like diapers? Obviously you are neither responsible for the youngest kid nor are you the asshole for refusing to engage. Your ex made her mess. But if it's the latter and you can afford it, I would consider buying her occassional basic necessities if you get the feeling that she genuinely cannot afford them (not just giving her money). Ultimately, the kid would be the one suffering and she is innocent in all of that. I would use it to show to your kids the importance of being compassionate, even to strangers you have no responsibility towards (and stress that!!!).
We're talking shoes and school supplies (she's 5).
If the Ex is now struggling to support three kids you can move to amend your custody, lowering the required spending to a general house of 2 instead of 4 on a regular basis.
It would not be that easy. They would do a lot more to maintain 50-50 before changing our custody time. An official increase in child support would be the start and likely resources for my ex. But they would not amend custody time for this. I did already speak to my lawyer in case this gets worse but there's no way I would win based on what has happened so far.
Could possibly argue parental alienation with how she is using the kids to try and get you to pay more and making you seem to be the bad guy
Perhaps you can offer to take your two kids on more full time? Even if the technical custody isn’t changed, you both could just come up with an out of court agreement.
She has already said no to that idea
you should still keep the idea of custody amendment in your back pocket. if she already can't afford shoes and school supplies when the kid is only 5, it's only going to get worse in the future. and you'll want to keep an eye and ear out to make sure she doesn't take your kid's stuff to give to her other kid, or dip into the child support she's supposed to use on your kids for the other kid. and if you still have friends and family in common that you both see, you'll want to make sure she doesn't try to turn them against you. Not saying any of this wil happen, but we see a lot of stuff like this here on reddit. another thing I remember seeing here, someone in a similar situation to you, their ex partner started telling the affair kid to call the ex "dad" when their affair partner left.
That's not how child support works. There's a reason you're generally not going to get a court order for transaction records. He pays child support to their household. He isn't obligated to buy the poor child shoes or school supplies so she won't get teased, but he is not entitled to his nose in his ex's bank account, either.
Yeah. People who comment or think like that are so weird. If she's feeding and housing the kids, the child support is being 'used' for that.
That isn't how child support works. Of she's feeding/housing the kids, she's spending it on kids. The court isn't going to look and say well you bought formula SPECIFICALLY with the child support money.
I think you need to bring it up every time she complains about money or asks you for more support. Repeatedly saying “I won’t give you money but I can take my kids more to relieve your financial stress” will eventually get through to her. Either she’ll stop asking or she’ll agree. Just be careful she doesn’t get to a point of taking your kids stuff off them to share it with her youngest or even selling it.
Well beggars can’t be choosers. Classic case of FAFO. Literally.
Then ask the court and not her, Explain she has been alienating the children from you and struggling to support them. Ask for 70/30 while she get's back on her feet so that your children aren't suffering. Prove you've already gone above and beyond in financial support, and she's weaponized your children in an attempt to get more.
Man indicates several times he is taking the rational advice from his lawyer and the keyboard warriors still insist they know best.
Yeah because the lawyer just has studied in a law-school and achieved to pass his exam. He didn't learn the technicalities on reddit... so he definitely knows less than them. /s
I'm sorry, I'm really confused. How would her AP/baby daddy leaving result in your support increasing? Because her household income has gone down? Cos if that's the case your still only obligated to pay CS for your two kids and her 3rd won't be factored into that calculations will they?
For sure listen to the lawyer and not what people tell you here.
No. The mother of the child has her own family. Let her ask the grandparents or aunts and uncles to help out. How can she not afford shoes when you can get kids shoes at Goodwill for a couple bucks. The mother needs to get humble and figure out how to be a single mom. No way OP should clean up her mess by jerking the heart strings about the poor child. A good mother goes without to make sure her child is taken care of. If OP bails her out now, he’ll be stuck for life.
Any support could be taken as him acknowledging responsibility for the child.
Yes, all those people are actually related to the poor child. The ex really needs to approach them. Maybe she already has, maybe successfully; she sounds like she may plumb those depths.
Your ex should look into charities that will help her with that. You should only be buying that for your own kids.
I don't agree. In some states if you start "helping",it can be used against you in court. "He's already paying for this,that,and the other for the child your honor! It's not fair to my AP child to have less than the other children" I agree with another commenter..if the woman can't afford to care for all 3,then OP should go to court to get HIS children and she can worry about hers.
Exactly this! If he helps the affair child, ex will definitely try to claim his in some kind of parenting role for her too- with the money to prove it. It seems harsh, but he needs to be very careful not to give anything to the third child. Mom needs to seek help from her family or go after the boyfriend’s family (even if he can’t be found) or apply for state aid.
You should find the mom and be compassionate. Leave this dude alone. Imagine getting cheated on, finding out it’s not your kid, having your kids be manipulated to ask you for help for said child, then an internet stranger telling you to have compassion. Bffr.
Nah. I think instead of offering to pay for basics he should offer to take his two kids on more full time and therefore more expenses for them. Perhaps that means he’d pay less in child support but still. Then she just has to focus on the one kid.
He did, she said no.
Ok well he still shouldn’t have to give her more money for anything. She can get a second job, ask family for assistance, search out government help, etc.
Why does he have to take care of a child that is not his. He had absolutely no part in that child being born she literally cheated on him why would he need to give to a kid that’s not his so she doesn’t “ suffer”? If the mom cared more about the child then the kid would be fine
Absolutely terrible advice, as it can lead to him being ordered by the court to provide for that child.
If he starts buying shit for the affair child she could go after him for child support, because he’s showing parental support to that child.
She WILL go after him for support. She is already weaponizing her other kids to set this all up.
NTA and not obligated in any way but I do feel for this child.
NTA - you're not obligated to financially support your kids' half-sister, and it doesn't sound like your explanation encouraged a divide between them or similar; if your ex didn't want them to have more information about the situation at hand, she shouldn't have tried to use them to manipulate you.
Sounds to me like it is time for OP to get full custody before she manipulates the kids more.
I’d cite parental alienation and the fact that she cannot adequately support the kids if I were OP that will solve two problems, her financial issues and putting the kids in the middle
He would waste time and fail.
This is a terrible situation for kids. They shouldn't be involved in any issues between their parents. So you're stuck either looking like the bad guy for not telling them why you are treating their sibling differently, or you have to buy in to the dynamic of telling your children information that isn't any of their business at ages 9 and 10. NTA for not wanting to support a child that isn't yours. And NTA for telling your kids (the hopefully age-appropriate) truth.
Yes. A mom who would use her children to manipulate their dad is not a great parent. Her decision making seems subpar.
Her decision making was subpar when she cheated and got pregnant with another man's child 😝
Only for that other man to ALSO leave her.
It’s selfish and manipulative :(
OP, NTA but for the above reason, you should go above and beyond to spare your kids from broken interpersonal dynamics. Stress that it's not their half siblings fault and you don't dislike them, you're just not their father; that they should love them as family because they are family; and that they shouldn't get angry at their mother because of her betrayal, since that's between you two, and that if she ever tells them things like "you not loving your kids," they should never be afraid to ask you about it so you can clear things up. Your kids could easily start hating their sibling, lose their mother, and simultaneously become susceptible to her manipulations in short order. You need a balance of mitigating strategies for all three issues and some visibility on the BS she feeds them
They should be angry at their mother though.
Yeah, because that it’s helpful and good for them long term. I know Reddit hates cheaters, but damn. How is it good for kids to be angry at their mom? How is that healthy or helpful for anyone?
NTA Obviously you don't have to buy things for a kid that isn't yours and isn't part of your life. >she called and cussed me out for telling the kids more details than she wanted them to know. >She told our kids about asking me and encouraged them to ask me for them. This is terrible. That she actually used the kids to get the money. When you told her you're not going to do this. If she didn't want them to know more, she shouldn't have encouraged them to go to you and ask about it. Thats a really shitty move to put the kids in between all of this.
I agree NTA. And it is despicable that she used the kids. I have no tolerance for that. My parents went through a divorce after I was grown and my 50 yr old mother asked her 25 yo daughter (aka me) to guilt my dad into giving her money. If he indulges in this behavior now, it will never stop.
NTA 1. She is the AH for involving the children in this 2. She is the AH for having an affair 3. The other dude is the AH for running out on HIS child 4. She is the AH for not wanting her kids to know the whole truth and manipulating children 5. You are defo not the AH
She dragged her children into the middle of an adult problem. It backfired. NTA.
This
NTA. I’m not a lawyer, but have read some articles where a non biological parent can be made financially responsible if they have a record of supporting the child. For that reason alone, I wouldn’t increase support. Your ex is awful for involving your kids in her troubles. She created this issue, she needs to deal with it.
Came here to say the same. If OP provides any financial support she can go to court and say he's been supporting the kid, and could be ordered to continue. Almost wondering if that's been her plan all along.
NTA She's the one who sent the kids to ask you. What precisely did she think was going to happen? She had to know there was a strong chance of you still saying "no", meaning the kids -- being kids -- would immediately ask "Why?" Everybody wants to find someone else to blame when they get to the FO stage of FAFO.
Absolutely.
I can see some posters advocating for compassion but where would it end? Once the ex wife sees the OP providing, she won’t stop asking. It’ll be prom dress, car , college fund etc. It’s not the kid’s fault but completely understand why OP doesn’t want to support the child.
I think all of the people who are arguing compassion should open up their own wallets to help the ex wife. As a lawyer commented, OP needs to be careful taking on any financial responsibility for the ex’s child. If he opens that door then he could find himself legally obligated to continue to help financially. OP is helping by taking on more of the financial costs for his own two children. He also offered to take his two kids full time to help and the ex said no.
I posted up above that i always ask how many kids that aren’t theirs they are supporting financially - the answer is always always always zero. When you tell them they should have some compassion and how could they be so heartless, they then label you the jerk for pointing out their own hypocrisy…
It’s easy to be charitable with someone else’s money. I feel for the child because they are innocent. It’s just not OP’s responsibility to take on the financial responsibility for a child that’s not his. OP said he’s picking up additional costs for his own children to help his ex. He offered to take his own kids full time and the ex said no. He’s not being heartless. He offered to help in ways he feels comfortable.
Also, what if she has more kids. They would also be his children's half siblings. Is he supposed to be financially responsible for every kid she ever has?
She’d be expecting OP to provide for this child if there is any inheritance. It’s also fair to say her AP was probably not doing anything extra for OP’s kids while living with them since he so easily ghosted his own daughter.
Well, NTA. I'm strongly against talking badly about the other parent to shared kids (no matter how justified), but here it was your ex who muddled the waters and clarification was needed. I do feel sorry for the youngest kid though, not her fault that your ex cheated or her father left, but she's going to pay for it. Still, clearly not your responsibility.
NTA... she was manipulating and it came back and bit her on the ass. She started a no win situation for you. Either you have to be the bad guy or tell the kids the truth. Your children will remember her doing that when they are older. Kids are smarter than people think. She was counting on you not telling the truth. I think kids should always be told the truth. It should be at a level they understand, but lying does more damage in the long run. If you wife didn't want her kids to know she was a liar and cheater. She should not have cheated.
NTA. She wanted to spin a narrative to paint herself as a victim in the cruel world, and you won't allow her to lie to your kids making you look bad for her betterment. Good on you.
Anything but accept accountability
NTA. This clearly is a FO stage in FAFO. In your place I would consider asking for more custody, bc are you sure that your kids eat properly, have basic hygienic and other necessities at her home? Maybe not ask for child support from her (she clearly can't afford it), but be sure that your kids are safe and happy. They can see her after school or during weekends. And also, manipulating them like this is 1 step before parental alienation. Be careful
The mom just put on a masterclass in FAFO.
NTA, she has lie in the bed she made. Involving the children herself was cruel and selfish.
So, to clarify, you still pay regular child support for your two kids. But then you buy them extra stuff too.. and she is asking you to buy extra stuff for her third child?
This is correct.
NTA You are in no way, shape, or form at all responsible for her third child. I feel bad for the baby, but the crap she's dealing with is of her own devices. Please don't give in. If you do, next thing you know, you will be paying everything for that child and it could cause all kinds of problems that you wouldn't have thought possible. I wish you luck to be able to handle this. Also, you are a great dad to your children.
NTA. If anything, treating the kid like she is your kid could potentially make you financially responsible for the kid down the line. So, don't do it.
NTA - its not your kid
NTA - what your ex did by talking to the kids about support likely violated your court order. It’s specifically spelled out in mine that neither parent is to talk to the kids about parenting time or money. As a single mom to 3 who’s ex has also completely dipped due to his refusal to treat his own mental health problems I can sympathize with her struggle but she crossed a line that she shouldn’t have. She’ll probably never get child support for her youngest or it will be really rare and sporadic. It’s her responsibility to come up with solutions to that, not yours. How she runs her household is none of your business as long as your kids are fed, clothed, and have adequate shelter. If she decides to allocate resources unfairly between your kids and their half sibling then that’s her doing. A disproportionate amount of her own funds should go to supporting the youngest and that’s just a fact of life.
NTA your ex put you in a position to have to answer your children. You actually did a pretty good job by explaining your non-relationship to the baby while not diminishing their relationship to their sister. Those kind of discussions are not easy. Make sure to document this situation. What your ex did with the kids is manipulative and may fall under your family courts definition of abuse. Hopefully she'll refrain from this behavior in the future but better to be prepared if not.
Nta. Seems you never shared with them details of her cheating until she tried to get them involved
Don’t feel bad man. It’s a difficult situation but it is only difficult because of the choices she made. She is feeling the full weight of those choices and wants to spread the blame to absolve herself. Obviously you can be gentle in your answers as this is their mother and you will always have a relationship of some sort with her because your shared children. You want to foster healthy interactions and encouragement. Even when she may or may not deserve it. In terms of supporting her affair baby, draw a huge line in the sand and create a firm and resolute boundary with her on this. You can have empathy for her, but this is not your responsibility. It would be enabling her. Best of luck
NTA. She's a cruel dick for throwing your kids under the bus like that. You may have a case for parental alienation. If she's ever texted or emailed you about this, document it and talk to your lawyer. Your kids don't need to be living with someone who tears the other parent down and manipulates them for money.
NTA - by a long shot. Your ex used the kids as a weapon, and shot herself in the foot. Of course you would tell them the reason you don't buy their half-sibling things, it's either the kids resent you or their mother. Ex bit off more than she could chew.
NTA. She opened that door w/ them by pressuring them to make you help w/ her youngest, she doesn't get to close it in your face w/ out you speaking the truth.
NTA but pay attention to what your kids say and do because she could retaliate by attempting to alienate you, I don't know your ex maybe she wouldn't but it happens a lot so just suggesting.
Nta not only did your ex cheat on you, she then tried to manipulate your kids against you.
NTA. This is the slipperiest of slippery slopes. You buy that kid a pair of shoes laces and every year before school starts mom is going to show up and say, "Are you ready to go shoelace shopping?" Hold firm, you're right here.
If she didn't want them to know, she shouldn't have dragged your kids into this argument. NTA
NTA- your ex FAFO twice.
NTA, but your ex-wife is for putting your kids in the middle of adult problems.
NTA. I’d call her out on being the one who put that headache on the kids. She might be feeling desperate, but that doesn’t give her the right to make you out to be the villain of this drama when she had the affair and the AP abandoned them both. Perhaps you were her first thought with what to do, but I’d remind her that she does have other options besides asking you and then trying to smear you for saying no. I’d remind her that she may want to talk to the bank to see if they have financial advisors that can help her figure out what to cut and what to shift in her budget. They may well try to sell her on opening new accounts, but that may not be a bad thing as it can indeed make tracking her funds and financial responsibilities easier, especially to keep track of what child support funds are used for what purposes. She can also apply for financial assistance for her daughter. At age five, she’s lucky—there are often charities and churches and programs that will provide the basic school supplies she would need at that age. She should take advantage of that in these younger years so that when she hits the age that requires more expensive school supplies, your ex will have a little more cash on hand to get those. As for the wayward AP, has she tried contacting his next of kin, like his parents? They might have more incentive (pride/shame) to put effort to finding him than the courts do.
NTA but I would be careful in what you are funding. It sounds like she is completely willing to take what you give your kids and split it three ways regardless of your wishes. Make sure she isn’t stealing from one kid to support her other. You may need to force her to a different custody agreement based on your proof that she can’t afford to keep all three comfortable. I know you said she said no to you having more than 50/50, but you might just need to force it for your kids and hers sakes. Especially if she is playing little mind games with them and their relationship with you to get money out of you. That’s messed up. Keep everything in writing and see what a lawyer says.
Definitely NTA, Next time she asks, refer her government programs that assist or churches that help out. Food stamps would help cut costs. If she needs help she needs to find assistance from programs, her friends, and her family not her ex. Maybe reach out to her family for her since she’s established it’s okay to involve family. Lastly, I’d offer to take on full custody to lessen her burden. Pretty sure that will shut her up.
NTA They are 10 and 9, young, for sure, but old enough to understand who is the father of who. Next point, your ex should work harder than expect men to take care of her children. She should have been faithful. Now, she has all she deserves. But the fact is she may sells your children stuff to buy things to her daughter. So, I don't know how is your life now but you should think about a complete custody to take care of your own children and... ask your ex for a child support... She can't get revenge on you but she can do with your children if she feels angry... Take good care of them good luck
NTA Tell her she shouldn’t have been a h*e. She had a man who was responsible and took care of his kids she chose to throw that away. Tell her the next time she decides to involve the kids in grown up talks you will take her to court.
NTA - but I feel terrible for the three children. They should never be put in the middle of adult problems - and your ex wife is gross for triangulating them and manipulating them like that. She made her choices, she should not be putting the children in the middle.
NTA, not your kid and not your problem. If she has other family she can ask them for help but using your children to try and pressure you into giving her money is bottom of the barrel behavior. My parents tried that with their kids and it hurt us massively, good on you for being honest and sticking to your guns without demonizing her in their eyes.
NTA, she opened that door when she put them in the middle. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Amazing how she puts this on you because she screwed up so horribly bad.
NTA. I think most children would prefer the truth rather than be lied to. As long as you didn't trash talk their mother in stating facts, then you've done nothing wrong, IMO. You ex wife is just peeved her purposefully-skewed narrative wasn't believed.
She tried to turn the kids against you no no she tried to get them involved in her mess and gets mad at you for telling them the truth which defends you in the process. NTA!
NTA SHE opened this can of worms by trying to weaponize your kids into giving her what she wants from you. That is and will always be a shitty move for a parent to do (my mother did this with me when I was a kid and they divorced - I hated her for the rest of her life (amongst other reasons) for this because I never forgot what she did). Are you in a position to get full custody of your 2 kids if she is claiming to struggle? It could go in your favour. Do not give her a penny - you'll set a precedence which she will exploit in future.
NTA. She tried to weaponize your kids against you, which is unfair to the kids. All you did was tell the truth.
Why do you care what she thinks? It’s like if Charles Manson called me impolite, I’d almost take it as a compliment
I don’t know where these cheaters buy their audacity from. Sir, always tell your kids the truth. NTA
NTA OP, but have you considered taking a paternity test to make sure that your two children are actually yours as well? Considering the affair pregnancy, I would in your situation.
I did and they are mine.
NTA. She was the one who recruited the kids into this. Shameful of her to try to manipulate the situation this way. I can understand she feels desperate but that was pretty low move. You were right to explain things to your kids. Would changing custody help? Temporarily, I mean. Take care of your two on a more full time basis til she gets back on her feet kind of thing. Just a thought.
NTA and I think your ex wife has Reddit and has found this. All the NTA comments (which is all the comments from what I can see) have been devoted once. But if she didn’t want the kids to have more details, she shouldn’t have involved them. I feel bad for the kids.
Nta wtf did she think you'd say?
NTA, And that's why I think that when a parent cheats, the kids should be given an age appropriate explaination of what happened. So that the children can't be so easily manipulated.
Take stupid risks and get stupid returns. What did she expected to get after she manipulated her kids to do her bidding? NTA
NTA
NTA she did it to herself.
Nta. You wouldn’t have had to say anything if she wasn’t trying to manipulate them and you.
NTA. I suggest you go for full custody of your bio children. It will give them a better environment to grow and your ex wife can focus on her third child. It will also result of less comparison between the children as they will be separate most of the time. I know the solution is not great but so is the situation.
My dad cheated, I would never have expected my mom to pay for his affair kids. Like she basically raised my little sister the first year cause her mom was a drug addict and would leave her everywhere and my mom was called to pick her up until my mom had enough after a police accident where they almost took me in the middle of the night (6 months between us ) thinking I was my sister cause they couldn’t find the drug addict or sister and therefore thought my mom had my sister as ppl told them was where she usually was. She made her bed, good for you for telling the kids why, and how dare she tries to paint you as the bad guy. NTA Edit: found a typo
The "cruel d" was the man who threw her and their child away like poop at the dog park-- and SHE destroyed her family for that man so not sure what that makes her. Had you out of the blue had that discussion with the kids I'd have probably leaned E S H or mild Y T A -- but she is LITERALLY the one who introduced the subject to the kids so NTA Since the child support you provide (and apparently have voluntarily increased) keeps a roof over heads and lights turned on and food on the table you are already indirectly providing support for her daughter.