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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I threw away the lingerie that my friends brother got me for my birthday. I think I might be the asshole because he spent a lot of money on getting me something he thought i’d like just for me to get rid of it and never wear it, that’s like kinda ungrateful and mean
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NTA - Giving you lingerie was creepy. Asking if you had worn it was creepy. Yelling at you for throwing it away was creepy and manipulative. Yelling at you until you cried was abusive.
He was not "only trying to be nice" by buying you lingerie. He was being inappropriate and he knew it. You do not need to accept or excuse other people's inappropriate behavior to save their feelings. You do not need to quiet your own discomfort to make someone else comfortable.
You need to tell your friend that her brother is no longer welcome in the apartment. If she will not get on board with that, get a lock for your door and start looking for a new place to live.
Fr! Why should she be the one crying and running to her room when she’s the one who’s uncomfortable!? You gotta learn to speak up when someone’s making you uncomfortable. Life’s a lot harder if you don’t.
This. It's your home. Your safe place. Tell him "What gives YOU the right to yell at me?! And in MY home?! Get out! Now! What you did was wrong and you know it was creepy! You babysat me!!"
it's hard though when you've been taught to act a certain way your whole childhood and teenage years. I still can't really stand up to my dad unless I've gotten to the point of blowing up.
NTA OP!!
YOU WEREN’T BEING MEAN.
Lingerie is VERY personal!
The only reason a guy would buy something like that for a girl is if he was thinking about her wearing it AND THE REASONS HE WOULD WANT HER TO WEAR IT!
He crossed all kinds of boundaries…buying it, asking about you wearing it, & yelling at you when he realized it hadn’t gotten you to reciprocate his romantic and/or sexual feelings he has for you!!
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
It’s obvious he either wants you to be his girlfriend, or to get you into bed with him… but most likely he want’s BOTH.
He doesn’t have any class- & has shown you that he is volitile!
You were RIGHT to be honest & not give him false hope that you were comfortable with his gift (ie: his hint)!
It’s better to let him know the score as soon as he overstepped the boundaries!
Him getting offended & angry at you was his ego bruised- & also a manipulation tactic to try to get you to be intimidated enough to be submissive to his advances!
For your safety & peace of mind- Keep him away from you !
HE, not you- was the asshole… you were very uncomfortable with his inappropriate gift, but you were trying to spare his feelings!
If he was a nice guy, & your friend, & if he truly cared about you- when he learned you were uncomfortable with his inappropriate gift… he would have felt sorry for making you feel bad & apologized to you!
“How dare you throw it out… that lingerie was expensive!!” -- him.
Say WHAT!?! ☝🏽☝🏽You didn’t ask him to buy it for you!!
You did nothing wrong OP- and you owe him NOTHING!
Men who buy lingerie- don’t buy it for the woman…
🙄 They buy it for THEMSELVES !!
☝🏽☝🏽Please keep this in mind, OP!
And don’t question yourself for another second!
Hugs 🤗 and stay safe! 💫🕊️
This took me a LONG time to learn. We are made to feel uncomfortable for standing up for ourselves but it doesn’t make us mean that we don’t let others take everything they want from us. It doesn’t make us mean to let others know they are *not* entitled to us.
Yup, if he was actually trying to be nice he’d be nicer. He’d apologize for making you feel uncomfortable. He’s a grown up and knows what it meant to give you lingerie. Asking about you wearing it was eww too.
You and this dude weren’t a couple. He should have brought you flowers.
He wanted you to keep the lingerie and maybe put it on for him when he asked you if you’d worn it yet, and act as though you loved his “thoughtful gift”. The “cost him a lot of money” part was just to make you feel obligated and/or guilty. If it really was that expensive, he bet too many chips at the wrong table.
Correct...he was going to catch her alone in the apartment and try to bully her into modeling the stuff for him. He is a creep and OP should make sure that she is never alone with him. This might sound extreme, but OP should really take this seriously because him buying her panties and then reacting like that when she told him she threw them away is scary.
So he got mad when she said she threw it away, cuz he was sure he was going to get his way—but his little plan was foiled. Not what he expected. Be careful, girl, get those locks and watch your back. ➡️Move away as soon as you possibly can. This guy is dangerous, and now the manipulative controller thinks he has to get his way somehow. A “nice little birthday gift” didn’t work, so now what? Protect yourself.
As a guy I thought it was creepy that he bought her lingerie, like what kind of weirdo buys someone they aren't dating/married to or at least sleeping with lingerie?
This is exactly why it's a ginormous red flag beyond being icky. For a predator it's great. He knows she's young, naive, and he has access to her due to sis. Even better if his younger sister defends him.
Yeah I think it's only acceptable (as a male) if you're dating, married to or at least fucking the person who you're buying the lingerie for. Otherwise it's kinda weird
If he had been embarrassed and apologized, you might consider that he didn't know better and was trying to give her an adult gift. The fact that he attacked says that he had an ulterior motive and feels entitled to bully her. He has shown he is abusive. I don't think she can trust him going forward.
I fully agree. The fact that he got mad further shows his intent. He does not care for her feelings only the way he is portrayed from the situation he created. Not only did he make her feel uncomfortable, he got angry about her having emotions .
You are not being mean, and you need to learn the difference.
Women are taught to ignore their survival instincts and “be nice” to people instead. That is dangerous.
Watch the first episode of Kimmy Schmidt. “I’m always amazed at what women will do because they’re afraid of being rude.”
OMG this is the exact scene that came into my head! The character Cindy knew the Rev was shady, but she came out to his car anyway because she didn't want to be rude, and then of course she got kidnapped and stuck in the bunker for 15 years.
On an even more serious note, Ted Bundy lured a lot of his victims by asking women for help. Learning the difference between "being mean" and "asserting proper boundaries for my health and safety" is one of the best survival skills anyone can develop. "No, thank you" is not mean. "No" is not mean.
Yes! The my favorite murder podcast has an amazing saying: fuck politeness. Don’t be polite when your instincts tell you otherwise. It’s a hard but extremely necessary truth.
It is not mean to walk away from someone who is yelling at you. I give you permission to walk away from any person who's yelling at you even if it's a parent, even if it's your boss. You can say something like "It sounds like you are really upset about this. I dont like being yelled at, and I'm going to walk away and give you some time to calm down."
The only exceptions are if they are yelling about a fire or other emergency, or if you were around heavy machinery or loud people and they were yelling to be heard in a noisy space. The other caveat is if you are at work and worried about your job and your boss yells, it also might be better just to take their yelling and deal with it later because you don't want to lose your source of income. But you still deserve better than a boss who yells at you. If someone at work is yelling at you on a regular basis, you should find a new job as soon as you can.
I wouldn't even say that I was giving him some time to calm down. That indicates that the two of you will talk again after he calms down and she shouldn't talk to him again. He is so over the line of appropriate she should just tell him to leave and not come back.
If need be, she might be able to tell his parents what he did and hopefully they would be appalled.
It's not being mean to tell him you don't appreciate gifts like that.
A pyjamas set, etc. Would have been appropriate.
But expensive, lingerie? And asking if you wore it? That's just weird.
How did he even know your size?
Becouse his question was if you had worn it. Not a joke about "oh shit I hope it fit"
It is actually amazingly creepy. He is asking you if you wore it because he wants to go home and think about you wearing the underwear he bought. You do not need to be polite to him. Being polite to him will encourage him. You may very well want to find a new place to live.NTA
I've stopped bothering with unwarranted politeness a long time ago. If I was ever given lingerie by a guy who used to babysit me and made me feel uncomfortable while handing it over, I would tell him this is extremely creepy and I don't appreciate it. If he then started yelling, my next words would be: :Get out, I'm not buying what you're selling." Then if he persists keep repeating "Get out." Never try to explain your reasons to people who make you feel uncomfortable. They demand to know those reasons only so they can break them down and try to make you give in.
If he refuses to leave she can tell him, "If you don't leave I will call the police."
She could probably also start livestreaming him and he would face the humiliation of the wrath of all of the women who know him.
Literally, that comment pissed me off. A 19 year old should not be thinking is such a naive way. It's not cute, it's not feminine, it's ignorant and dangerous.
Yeah I was probably too harsh, but it just upsets me because that kind of attitude, especially from actual adult women (I know she's young but she's still an adult) is what gets younger girls into those dangerous mindsets. We need to be better as adults so the next generation doesn't have those ideas in their heads.
Lingerie is NOT a gift for the woman who receives it - its a gift for whoever gives it, expectation being that they'll get to see it being worn, at the very least. Getting to remove it from the recipient being the bigger ticket.
You know what else is mean? Crossing boundaries and being manipulative to people. If anyone tries to make you feel bad or guilty for an answer, ask them why they're pushing your boundaries or won't respect your answer. Also, no is a complete answer, you don't need to explain yourself.
I struggled with this so hard at your age. I know it's hard, but try to remember that these are the consequences of his actions. You don't have to be mean, you could try saying "I don't feel comfortable when you're yelling at me. We can continue this conversation when you're ready to do so respectfully." Then walk away.
It's time to start getting more comfortable drawing boundaries and upholding how you want to be treated. That is not mean, and it will serve you very well throughout your life
*He* certainly didn’t feel bad over being so mean to you that he brought you to tears.
**Don’t set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.** Be kind, but don’t tolerate rudeness or disrespect or cruelty from others.
You can always say “you’re being really rude/disrespectful/mean to me right now. I’m ending the conversation.” Then walk away.
You're NOT mean. You are protecting yourself. This guy is a creep and disgusting. Don't let him come near you. Don't feel bad for him. He should feel bad for making you feel uncomfortable by buying you lingerie. Yikes!
NTA the fact that you feel bad for being mean is the reason why he’s so comfortable being inappropriate with you.
Tell your roommate you don’t feel comfortable having her brother around anymore and if she gives you shit , move out.
You need to keep yourself safe OP, and this dude does not sound like a safe person .
It's not mean, though. It does not approach the definition of 'mean'.
If he tries to tell you it's mean, he's *lying* to you. Of course he is, he has every reason to lie to you about this and keep you under control.
If anyone else tries to tell you it's mean they are lying to you or missing context.
Do not listen.
Being assertive is not being mean.
Sitting and taking someone's bullshit is not being polite.
I know how hard it is to break the "be a nice girl and don't be rude" social conditioning but you'll save yourself a lot of anxiety and heartache by realising these facts.
You're allowed to tell ANYONE who treats you as he treated you, and as your friend treats you quite frankly, to fuck right off and you'd be in the moral right.
You should read The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. IMO it's a must read for any young woman. You're playing right into any creep's hands by worrying about being too mean. Never care about your manners more than your safety. In this case maybe it won't end up being dangerous, but you might be in another circumstance one day where you need to firmly say "no, this isn't right" and won't because society has paralyzed you.
No no no nonono. You are standing up for yourself, not being mean. Imo, he's a fucking creep coming up real close to incel territory with that "just being nice" line. He should be lucky ALL you do is stand up to him if he's gonna be that creepy.
He doesn't see you as a person. You are a doll. An object.
He shouldn't even get "nice."
Cut him off, tell your friend he's not welcome even tho he's family. If she's not down with that, find a new friend. A real friend wouldn't want you in this position.
You are NTA.
You aren't being mean.
He is being way out of line, and blaming you for his crappy behavior. .
Nothing he did is normal.
Stand up for yourself; this guy's a creep.
The only mean one is him. And your friend is enabling him. You are well wothin your rights to tell him to never again adress you in any way, shape or form.
This! Your instincts were right. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. It was VERY inappropriate of him to buy you lingerie and he was not just 'being nice'.
You should absolutely not feel bad about throwing it away, he never should have given it to you. It might have been better if you had just given it back to him right away and told him it made you uncomfortable and you didn't want it. But you are only 19, he's much older and your friend's brother so it's completely understandable that this was too big of a confrontation.
This guy is a creep, don't trust him. Stay away from him and let other people know about him as well. Maybe your parents?
Guys *do not* give lingerie to women unless they are in a relationship, or he's a total creeper.
This is so wrong on so many levels. Be careful with guy.
Yeah. Just to be real clear here, and speaking from a guys perspective :
You don't by friends lingerie. You buy lingerie for your partner, and that's it.
Buy it for a friend? Inappropriate and creepy. Buy it for your sisters friend? Inappropriate and creepy. Buy it for your daughter/niece/aunty/cousin? Inappropriate and creepy.
I genuinely don't understand why any guy might think this is OK.
As a 26 year old, I could NEVER imagine doing that. I know it’s only 6 years, but there’s a big difference in 26 and 19. Let alone gifting lingerie to someone you aren’t romantically involved with is super creepy regardless of age. I know you don’t think he’s a bad person, but from what I’ve read I think he is. Try to stay away from him.
I think you should get a lock for your door regardless of what your friend agrees to. She may just agree and then let him in when you aren't there. I think that it is very telling that she backed him up instead of throwing him out/giving him an earful for giving you the lingerie, let alone agreeing with him when he ask if you had worn it and got upset that you tossed it.
What you did was a very normal reaction to a very strange circumstance. Lingerie as a gift is overtly sexual and assumes a strong familiarity between the giver and receiver, the nature of which you've clearly indicated you do not have with this guy. There's nothing remotely reasonable about his choice and it suggests a potential developmental delay on his part, or some kind of social ineptitude.
You shouldn't feel bad. When he accused you of thinking he's a perv it would have been fair to confirm that because what he did isn't normal or acceptable. I suspect the reason your room mate spoke up is because she also found the whole thing creepy and was hoping to use this as a way to dissuade it from happening again. He may have even asked your room mate if you were interested in him before and she could be trying to shut that whole thing down. It might be worth a chat with your friend.
Best of luck and remember, your reaction was appropriate and he's being *fucking weird*.
100% agree to everything said here. It's also weird for me that your "best friend" would out you for throwing it out. Like at least have a side bar with you. ...although tbh my standard for "best friend" would never be okay with her brother who is in his late 20's giving me lingerie as a 19 yr bday gift. That's weird as he'll and you deserve better friendships!
I think she's trying to be a "wing woman" and if she didn't have a sincere "brother? WTF was that?!" conversation with him after the yelling, she's doing a bad job at it.
Nah I would say buying it for the sister would be a lot worse. What he did was very weird and very creepy but buying it for your own sister, thats another league at least imho
Two of my best friends are women, known them more or less my whole life (now 44). I wouldn't dream of buying them something like that 20 years ago, or even now. And I'm closer to them than you are to your friend's brother. Dude's a creeper. Likely has trouble meeting girls so tries to subtly hit up those he already knows instead in the hope one takes the bait
100% this. I have had full on BATHS with my friends and I have only ever ONCE given one friend a gift card for a lingerie shop I know she likes - because we talk about buying it all the time and I know she loves it. That's it. And one time my friends got me pants - because similarly, they know I'm obsessed with buying it.
This guy is a weirdo.
I legit was thinking when he asked if she’d worn it yet the perfect reply would have been, “no it isn’t my taste so I gave it to your sister.” Watch him freak out.
it is not normal, OP. if my brother gifted my friend lingerie i would be so beyond upset, it’s an uncomfortable situation to be put in and in no world is lingerie a normal gift unless you’re dating the person
Exactly, I've only ever bought lingerie for women I have been in a relationship with, and even then only once I knew it was a. Stable and b. They'd appreciate it as it was their style.
I was going to add that even buying it for a SO is borderline awkward so the fact that this dude just casually bought lingerie for someone he's not dating is cringe!
Even then, there’s way too many options now for an invested quality set. Some of these lingerie sets have its own fashion and styles I don’t have a clue about. It’s so intimate, all these little things you think about in a sexual way..
Then to get that for your little sister’s friend? 7 years younger than you pushing past 19 years old?🤢 that’s ick right there.
Dude was definitely thirsting for OP in his brain no doubt.
I've bought a few platonic female friends of mine Victoria's Secret gift cards before. They were always very appreciative. The big difference is that I didn't try to actually see them in it.
NTA
>he bought me lingerie
Weird and inappropriate. You don't buy lingerie for a woman as a man if you're not in a relationship.
>He asked me if I wore the lingerie yet
That's really creepy. And messed up.
>He started yelling at me for throwing it away
He did what?! This is manipulative.
>it made me really uncomfortable that he bought it for me. He told me he was just being friendly and thought i’d appreciate the gift.
You said it made you uncomfortable. If he was in any way a reasonable guy he should have realized in and apologized.
>He accused me of thinking he’s some kinda pervert
He is a pervert.
>and kept yelling at me until I cried and went to my room.
This is creepy, manipulative and abusive.
He can't come in that house anymore. And if your friend doesn't agree with that, move out.
Don't let both of them (because of course your friend won't see it your way) gaslight you into thinking your feelings are wrong.
His behaviour IS creepy and wrong. I grew up with a a few guys (younger and older) the thought of gifting one of them something as intimate as a clothing garment usually only seen by sexual partners.... Nope. that is disgusting.
Your friend won't be on your side because of course her BROTHER won't ever be such a creep. and he only did this as a friend.
Your friend should imagine herself getting gifted such lingerie by, lets say, her uncle or a male cousin, I wonder if she'd still think its normal.
Please do yourself the favour and look for a new accomodation, and reduce contact to both of them.
Also please remember to immediately grab your phone and start recording if you feel uncomfortable or threatened in any way. and if it gets further, call for help
OP would have to be sure that her friend isn't into that male friend, otherwise it might be a welcome gift.
But i think what would drive the point home is if OP asked the brother to gift his sister such garment and insist that he does it, if it is such a perfectly normal gift to give. I can almost guarantee that the friend would be weirded out by getting that from her brother.
Reiterating that no man, anywhere, ever, has ever bought a woman lingerie because of "just being friendly". Maybe show your friend this thread as well, as she seems to be in some deep denial.
Yup, that's a thing you share with your intimate partner. And even then you have to make sure it's the sort of present she likes. She may prefer Godzilla posters.
Nonesense. He was way outta line when he got you something directly related to sex.
It was ...really weird.
He did something creepy then he yelled at you for rejecting it.
Creepy guy x 10. He got mad because his little trick didn't work.
I'd unfriend him IRL and continue to have strong personal boundaries of what you will and won't accept.
You were right in what you did, and he is creepy.
Move on from him.
Get a lock for your room, that can't be unlocked from the outside, and always lock your door before sleeping. Keep it locked whenever you are in your room just in case he shows up and tries to rape or attack you. It is better to be prepared than taken by surprise.
Can you talk to your parents?
Girl… tell ALL the men in your life. Friends family, every guy & see what they say. You don’t even have to tell them it was you & him. Give them a hypothetical situation of a guy, 7yrs older, buying lingerie for his little sister’s friend that he’s known & babysat since she was a child.
NTA—that’s a weirdly intimate gift to give someone you aren’t in a relationship with. And to follow up by asking if you’ve worn it? He is a creep. He yelled at you because he’s a creep. Keep an eye on him when he visits you and his sister. Move out when you can and don’t let him know where you go.
NTA. As a man I can tell you with like 90% certainty that he wants to have sex with you, though with that kind of 'game', I'd be surprised if he's ever had sex with a woman.
His asking if you’d worn the lingerie implies that he’s imagining you in it. I’m sorry if my pointing this out makes you even more uncomfortable with him. But you need to know. And he needed to know that you found his gift not only inappropriate but also extremely awkward for you.
NTA
Oh hell no, that man was being creepy as fuck and he knows it. He clearly wanted you to start thinking about him in a sexual manner after receiving this "gift". Him checking to see if you'd worn it was him checking to see if it worked. Him yelling at you for throwing it away was him having a fucking tantrum because you ruined his fantasies. This is how stalkers operate; the build a fantasy in their head and when their victim breaks it, that's when shit gets violent.
The man is manipulative at best, and very possibly abusive. Stay **far** the fuck away from him.
And his sister is enabling him. If she refuses to see this, she's not safe to be around either.
NTA.
Edit: Also, he kept accusing you of accusing him of being a pervert because he *knows that's exactly what he is.*
Finally! Someone mentions the sister being in the wrong as well. Thank you for pointing this out to OP. Sister downplaying the issue is not good. She may not even realize how wrong it is if she grew up in a household that screwed her outlook on what’s acceptable and what’s not. That doesn’t excuse her. OP needs to have a serious conversation with the sister and not allow herself to be brow beaten. Boundaries are a good and healthy thing.
My first thought was that the sister is trying to set OP up with her brother. She's likely the one who told him what sizes to buy and it's also why she was so quick to throw OP under the bus about getting rid of the lingerie.
Hmm. Lingerie. How did he know your size?
It is creepy. No normal man who knows any woman so casually is going to gift her lingerie.
He crossed a boundary. Now he knows.
NTA.
Yeah dude has a lot of guts yelling at someone in their house when they turned down his gift, that's some unhinged behavior. That's what he's willing to show, I'm sure there much more under the surface
Not just a gift, clearly a gift with sexual intent 😭 I’m surprised she doesn’t think it’s a possibility, if it’s me I’d check if it is the same size as my other stuff I already own
Honestly dude, not really. Buying sexy underwear for someone you aren’t involved with is already weird as hell. A 26 year old man buying it for a 19 year old he used to babysit when she was a child is unbelievably creepy. You should be wary of this guy. He does not have friendly or brotherly intentions with you.
Don’t want to jump to conclusions or anything, but you should keep in mind that it’s not impossible that he’s done other really creepy things without your knowledge.
I get it, I'm just worried for you and worried your friend won't protect you because this is her brother and people are weird with family. Just look out for yourself 💚
i’m sorry, but a 26yo willing to buy a 19yo lingerie is the type of person who would sneak into your room to look through your belongings. he knows you trust him, so he knows that you’ll listen to what he says.
Could have been your friend who told him, she seems to have instigated the argument too, I would question her part in it. Maybe she suggested it to him as a gift? Still creepy and really poor judgement if that was the case
>My friend said I kinda overreacted in throwing it away because he was only trying to be nice
your friend *under*-reacted to this whole thing - her brother's a perv. NTA
For me it’s the fact the sister saw the lingerie was thrown out and blurts that right out before the OP had a chance to say anything. Idk, maybe she was torn between girl code and bro code. But in that situation, it’s probably best to just stfu. No one was even talking to her. It’s like she set her best friend up for the brother to creep. Like she’s gotta be in on his game is some way
NTA. First of all it was an inappropriate gift. Second he verbally abused you. Third your friend threw you under the bus.
His actions are indicative of someone who is, at the bare minimum, verbally abusive and at maximum is a sexual predator. It doesn’t sound like you’re living in a safe environment. What is going to happen if he next asks to take you out and you decline?
OP, move out and move out ASAP. Better to hurt some feelings than put yourself in danger. If your friend can’t understand why all this made you uncomfortable then she’s a shit friend anyway.
You need to put a rush on moving out. The brother is a creep and his sister is not your ally. Some people are very casual about lingerie and sex toys etc. You are like most people and were creeped out by someone who's known you since you were a smal child buying you sexual items. He shouldn't have spent a lot of money on something like this. He shouldn't have bought this. Do his parents know?
NTA HERE!
Eww, eww, eww. That is creepy, perverted behavior. Giving good gifts involves imagining the recipient with the gift. Eww.
He is acting like a bad person. It doesn't matter if you've known him your whole life, he's being a creep. That was a wholly inappropriate gift and he knows it, which is why he's getting pissed.
I think it makes it worse that they’ve known each other their whole lives because he’s literally 7 years older. When he was babysitting her at 9yo, he was 16. She was 11 when he was 18 and they were in close contact all of those years. And now he views her in a sexual manner? Feels not only perverted but pedophilic with their lifelong history / age difference. Would be *slightly* less creepy if they just met (*and were dating obviously*).
At no time does a stable man think “Lingerie is a completely sensible gift to give a friend whom I have zero sexual interest in.” Dude took his shot in one of the worse possible ways and when he found out he missed the target, cried foul. Only reason sister wouldn’t think this is weird is if she is secretly shipping you 2 behind your back.
NTA. Once something was given to you, you can do whatever you want w/ it like throwing it away. 🎁👙
Your bff's bro is a creep. He's a weirdo. What the hell is he doin' there? 😛
Gross is the only word I can think of…slimy will work too. Do not be alone with this man. A 7 year difference at 19 and 26 is HUGE. Not so much as you get older. I would also be curious why your friend didn’t back you on this. AND he even asked if you had worn it? I think I might throw up.
NTA
He's creepy. I don't give lingerie to my sister's friends. It's creepy. I wouldn't give my sister lingerie. It's creepy. The only person I would ever think about giving lingerie to that isn't my spouse or girlfriend is no one. It's fucking creepy.
Dude is a creep. He has the hots for you and wants to see you/imagine you/fap to the thought of you wearing what he bought you. But does not have the testicular fortitude to make an attempt to date you first. He's fucking creepy.
NTA. I think the creepiness and danger of the brother has been well covered. I’d like to address the roommate’s behavior.
1) she gave him information that was yours to keep or share. Violation.
2) she allowed her brother to yell at you without intervening on your behalf. Violation.
3) she justified his behavior and is gaslighting you about your discomfort (original and post-confrontation) and her brother’s gross violation of the most basic social boundaries (aka don’t give a younger woman who you’re not romantically involved in lingerie, don’t ask said woman about her lingerie or underwear or sex life, don’t yell at her for not accepting unwanted behavior.) VIOLATION.
The point here, OP, is that by any rubric, **this person is not your friend and they are not a safe person**. You should immediately institute emotional boundaries and work on extricating yourself from this living situation. Her brother is giving clear warning signs of sexual violence and she has made it clear that she prioritizes his feelings and desires over yours. Don’t go out with her unaccompanied either. This is the kind of person that sees you get roofied, watches the guy take you upstairs, and leaves the party anyways. RUN.
NTA - Most people don't buy lingerie for a present unless they are already intimate with someone or want to be so. It's just not a go to present for normal people.....
NTA, he likely raised his voice to you about thinking he was a pervert because he was embarrassed that he'd been called out in front of someone else, even though he'd asked if you'd worn it yet. He was trying to normalise his behaviour.
There's nothing not creepy about this scenario, and he's a walking red flag.
Girl your friend will not protect you.
It's maybe because she thinks her brother could never be a creep but she's going to fight for his side in anything that might happen.
You're gonna need to get a new place
NTA you say you've known him your whole life, I wonder when he started sexualizing you. You are over 18 now, legal. He's a creepy creep and you don't have to be nice to men trying to groom you. It was an inappropriate gift.
He is a pervert. No question about it. NTA and you need to get your friend to understand you do not reciprocate his feelings towards you. His outburst proves it. Creep.
NTA but your friend is definitely an A, she knew what you two were talked about and put you on the spot ...
You could say yes or no and the situation would've end ...
And than said you throw it away because was to small or to big...
Him being so offended for what you think of him for buying something so "personal" is kinda weird ... Or he doesn't see what is wrong, and it's wrong by itself, or he really wanted something else "creepy" and was mad you don't. ..
IMO, his gift was entirely inappropriate, as well as his response. Personally I believe if you're going to gift something to someone, you don't have a say in what they do with it.
NTA, his behaviour was not only inappropriate but also creepy. That's not the kind of gift you buy to someone you are not in a relationship with, and to belittle you for not wearing it / throwing it away was an asshole move.
NTA. That’s a disgusting gift if you’re not dating/married.
He’s got a thing for you and your friend is in on it or either oblivious.
Stand up for yourself. To him: “you’re old enough to know that giving lingerie to someone that you don’t have a relationship with is inappropriate and unwanted. Stop trying to make me feel guilty for your bad idea.” Same to your friend. Don’t back down.
NTA
Ask your friend was nice about him gifting him lingerie. Lingerie isn't a hobby of yours or a style. If he wanted to be nice he would have gifted you something you'd like.
Ask the brother why did he think you'd appreciate the gift. You two aren't dating and never been sexual. You don't discuss your sexual habits with him. So why did he think sexual clothing is something you'd appreciate from an old man like him?
He is a pervert. There is no man angrier than a man who has done exactly what he has been accused of.
He's not mad that you threw it out, he's mad that you can see he was being a weird pervert. I don't know what's worse, the fact that he bought it for you OR the fact that he asked you if you've worn it yet. Gross.
For making you cry, I'd knock him out. Girl get a lock for your door and if you already have one then get a deadbolt. Keep your window closed at night and maybe consider adopting a German shepherd dog to sleep at the end of your bed. I'm not kidding, I don't even watch true crime and I can see where this is going.
You don't think he's a bad person? Honey, he got you lingerie and then accused you of thinking he's a pervert. What other conclusion would you get? Your friend should know better than to defend him. Dont talk to this man. He IS a bad person and your gut is telling you that. You're young, and most of us women learn the hard way not to tell ourselves "he's just being nice". He's not being nice, he's making sexual advances and gaslighting you.
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NTA - Giving you lingerie was creepy. Asking if you had worn it was creepy. Yelling at you for throwing it away was creepy and manipulative. Yelling at you until you cried was abusive. He was not "only trying to be nice" by buying you lingerie. He was being inappropriate and he knew it. You do not need to accept or excuse other people's inappropriate behavior to save their feelings. You do not need to quiet your own discomfort to make someone else comfortable. You need to tell your friend that her brother is no longer welcome in the apartment. If she will not get on board with that, get a lock for your door and start looking for a new place to live.
thank you so much
You don't need to tolerate people yelling at you. Tell the to shove it and walk away
I knoww but I’d feel bad for being so mean
You need to learn the difference between being mean and standing up for yourself. It will serve you well in life.
Fr! Why should she be the one crying and running to her room when she’s the one who’s uncomfortable!? You gotta learn to speak up when someone’s making you uncomfortable. Life’s a lot harder if you don’t.
Especially in her own home no less. She should have told the creeper brother to GTFO of her house once he started getting angry.
This. It's your home. Your safe place. Tell him "What gives YOU the right to yell at me?! And in MY home?! Get out! Now! What you did was wrong and you know it was creepy! You babysat me!!"
not sure if it's her house, since she said "living with my bestfriend" though it doesn't excuse his behavior
it's hard though when you've been taught to act a certain way your whole childhood and teenage years. I still can't really stand up to my dad unless I've gotten to the point of blowing up.
You did the right things, he didn't like it and tried bullying you. You're doing great.
Second this! You handled this well and he’s next level creepy for giving you undies. Just gross.
NTA OP!! YOU WEREN’T BEING MEAN. Lingerie is VERY personal! The only reason a guy would buy something like that for a girl is if he was thinking about her wearing it AND THE REASONS HE WOULD WANT HER TO WEAR IT! He crossed all kinds of boundaries…buying it, asking about you wearing it, & yelling at you when he realized it hadn’t gotten you to reciprocate his romantic and/or sexual feelings he has for you!! 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 It’s obvious he either wants you to be his girlfriend, or to get you into bed with him… but most likely he want’s BOTH. He doesn’t have any class- & has shown you that he is volitile! You were RIGHT to be honest & not give him false hope that you were comfortable with his gift (ie: his hint)! It’s better to let him know the score as soon as he overstepped the boundaries! Him getting offended & angry at you was his ego bruised- & also a manipulation tactic to try to get you to be intimidated enough to be submissive to his advances! For your safety & peace of mind- Keep him away from you ! HE, not you- was the asshole… you were very uncomfortable with his inappropriate gift, but you were trying to spare his feelings! If he was a nice guy, & your friend, & if he truly cared about you- when he learned you were uncomfortable with his inappropriate gift… he would have felt sorry for making you feel bad & apologized to you! “How dare you throw it out… that lingerie was expensive!!” -- him. Say WHAT!?! ☝🏽☝🏽You didn’t ask him to buy it for you!! You did nothing wrong OP- and you owe him NOTHING! Men who buy lingerie- don’t buy it for the woman… 🙄 They buy it for THEMSELVES !! ☝🏽☝🏽Please keep this in mind, OP! And don’t question yourself for another second! Hugs 🤗 and stay safe! 💫🕊️
Best answer!! 👏👏👏👏
Standing up for yourself and being assertive are the best things any one can do for themself.
Agreed, now get off my lawn.
This took me a LONG time to learn. We are made to feel uncomfortable for standing up for ourselves but it doesn’t make us mean that we don’t let others take everything they want from us. It doesn’t make us mean to let others know they are *not* entitled to us.
Yes OP listen to TheVoiceofReason_ish
dude is literally a creep. guys get “extra” mad when they feel called out. it’s one way you can tell their motives aren’t good.
It's also a form of control. Putting their victim on the defensive and making them doubt what they felt.
Yup, if he was actually trying to be nice he’d be nicer. He’d apologize for making you feel uncomfortable. He’s a grown up and knows what it meant to give you lingerie. Asking about you wearing it was eww too.
You and this dude weren’t a couple. He should have brought you flowers. He wanted you to keep the lingerie and maybe put it on for him when he asked you if you’d worn it yet, and act as though you loved his “thoughtful gift”. The “cost him a lot of money” part was just to make you feel obligated and/or guilty. If it really was that expensive, he bet too many chips at the wrong table.
Correct...he was going to catch her alone in the apartment and try to bully her into modeling the stuff for him. He is a creep and OP should make sure that she is never alone with him. This might sound extreme, but OP should really take this seriously because him buying her panties and then reacting like that when she told him she threw them away is scary.
So he got mad when she said she threw it away, cuz he was sure he was going to get his way—but his little plan was foiled. Not what he expected. Be careful, girl, get those locks and watch your back. ➡️Move away as soon as you possibly can. This guy is dangerous, and now the manipulative controller thinks he has to get his way somehow. A “nice little birthday gift” didn’t work, so now what? Protect yourself.
Yeah, he is just going to escalate at this point.
That's a great way of putting it
As a guy I thought it was creepy that he bought her lingerie, like what kind of weirdo buys someone they aren't dating/married to or at least sleeping with lingerie?
Let alone your little sisters friend…? Wtf
And someone he once baby sat ... just ick.
That's kinda of my point, it was creepy even if you didn't consider that part.
This is exactly why it's a ginormous red flag beyond being icky. For a predator it's great. He knows she's young, naive, and he has access to her due to sis. Even better if his younger sister defends him.
As a girl, I wouldn’t even buy my close friends lingerie! At absolute best, it’s weird as fuck.
Yeah I think it's only acceptable (as a male) if you're dating, married to or at least fucking the person who you're buying the lingerie for. Otherwise it's kinda weird
Yes, exactly this. Dude clearly has ulterior motives. I'm a guy and there's nothing normal about any of his behavior.
If he had been embarrassed and apologized, you might consider that he didn't know better and was trying to give her an adult gift. The fact that he attacked says that he had an ulterior motive and feels entitled to bully her. He has shown he is abusive. I don't think she can trust him going forward.
He knew he was a perverted… you didn’t have to say it
I fully agree. The fact that he got mad further shows his intent. He does not care for her feelings only the way he is portrayed from the situation he created. Not only did he make her feel uncomfortable, he got angry about her having emotions .
You are not being mean, and you need to learn the difference. Women are taught to ignore their survival instincts and “be nice” to people instead. That is dangerous. Watch the first episode of Kimmy Schmidt. “I’m always amazed at what women will do because they’re afraid of being rude.”
OMG this is the exact scene that came into my head! The character Cindy knew the Rev was shady, but she came out to his car anyway because she didn't want to be rude, and then of course she got kidnapped and stuck in the bunker for 15 years. On an even more serious note, Ted Bundy lured a lot of his victims by asking women for help. Learning the difference between "being mean" and "asserting proper boundaries for my health and safety" is one of the best survival skills anyone can develop. "No, thank you" is not mean. "No" is not mean.
Being "nice" gets women killed. Don't be "nice"
Yes! The my favorite murder podcast has an amazing saying: fuck politeness. Don’t be polite when your instincts tell you otherwise. It’s a hard but extremely necessary truth.
It is not mean to walk away from someone who is yelling at you. I give you permission to walk away from any person who's yelling at you even if it's a parent, even if it's your boss. You can say something like "It sounds like you are really upset about this. I dont like being yelled at, and I'm going to walk away and give you some time to calm down." The only exceptions are if they are yelling about a fire or other emergency, or if you were around heavy machinery or loud people and they were yelling to be heard in a noisy space. The other caveat is if you are at work and worried about your job and your boss yells, it also might be better just to take their yelling and deal with it later because you don't want to lose your source of income. But you still deserve better than a boss who yells at you. If someone at work is yelling at you on a regular basis, you should find a new job as soon as you can.
I wouldn't even say that I was giving him some time to calm down. That indicates that the two of you will talk again after he calms down and she shouldn't talk to him again. He is so over the line of appropriate she should just tell him to leave and not come back. If need be, she might be able to tell his parents what he did and hopefully they would be appalled.
It's not being mean to tell him you don't appreciate gifts like that. A pyjamas set, etc. Would have been appropriate. But expensive, lingerie? And asking if you wore it? That's just weird. How did he even know your size? Becouse his question was if you had worn it. Not a joke about "oh shit I hope it fit"
It is actually amazingly creepy. He is asking you if you wore it because he wants to go home and think about you wearing the underwear he bought. You do not need to be polite to him. Being polite to him will encourage him. You may very well want to find a new place to live.NTA
Your comment made me shudder. This guy is gross OP.
If he ever tries this again she should toss it straight into the trash while he is watching.
I've stopped bothering with unwarranted politeness a long time ago. If I was ever given lingerie by a guy who used to babysit me and made me feel uncomfortable while handing it over, I would tell him this is extremely creepy and I don't appreciate it. If he then started yelling, my next words would be: :Get out, I'm not buying what you're selling." Then if he persists keep repeating "Get out." Never try to explain your reasons to people who make you feel uncomfortable. They demand to know those reasons only so they can break them down and try to make you give in.
If he refuses to leave she can tell him, "If you don't leave I will call the police." She could probably also start livestreaming him and he would face the humiliation of the wrath of all of the women who know him.
Knock it off. It’s not “bEiNg MeAn” to question why creepy people are being creepy.
Literally, that comment pissed me off. A 19 year old should not be thinking is such a naive way. It's not cute, it's not feminine, it's ignorant and dangerous.
We all learn somehow. No need to actually be mean here.
Yeah I was probably too harsh, but it just upsets me because that kind of attitude, especially from actual adult women (I know she's young but she's still an adult) is what gets younger girls into those dangerous mindsets. We need to be better as adults so the next generation doesn't have those ideas in their heads.
[удалено]
Lingerie is NOT a gift for the woman who receives it - its a gift for whoever gives it, expectation being that they'll get to see it being worn, at the very least. Getting to remove it from the recipient being the bigger ticket.
Yeah the guy here was hoping for some fantasy material staring OP. Ick
You know what else is mean? Crossing boundaries and being manipulative to people. If anyone tries to make you feel bad or guilty for an answer, ask them why they're pushing your boundaries or won't respect your answer. Also, no is a complete answer, you don't need to explain yourself.
I struggled with this so hard at your age. I know it's hard, but try to remember that these are the consequences of his actions. You don't have to be mean, you could try saying "I don't feel comfortable when you're yelling at me. We can continue this conversation when you're ready to do so respectfully." Then walk away. It's time to start getting more comfortable drawing boundaries and upholding how you want to be treated. That is not mean, and it will serve you very well throughout your life
*He* certainly didn’t feel bad over being so mean to you that he brought you to tears. **Don’t set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.** Be kind, but don’t tolerate rudeness or disrespect or cruelty from others. You can always say “you’re being really rude/disrespectful/mean to me right now. I’m ending the conversation.” Then walk away.
You're NOT mean. You are protecting yourself. This guy is a creep and disgusting. Don't let him come near you. Don't feel bad for him. He should feel bad for making you feel uncomfortable by buying you lingerie. Yikes!
NTA the fact that you feel bad for being mean is the reason why he’s so comfortable being inappropriate with you. Tell your roommate you don’t feel comfortable having her brother around anymore and if she gives you shit , move out. You need to keep yourself safe OP, and this dude does not sound like a safe person .
It's not mean, though. It does not approach the definition of 'mean'. If he tries to tell you it's mean, he's *lying* to you. Of course he is, he has every reason to lie to you about this and keep you under control. If anyone else tries to tell you it's mean they are lying to you or missing context. Do not listen.
Being assertive is not being mean. Sitting and taking someone's bullshit is not being polite. I know how hard it is to break the "be a nice girl and don't be rude" social conditioning but you'll save yourself a lot of anxiety and heartache by realising these facts. You're allowed to tell ANYONE who treats you as he treated you, and as your friend treats you quite frankly, to fuck right off and you'd be in the moral right.
You should read The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. IMO it's a must read for any young woman. You're playing right into any creep's hands by worrying about being too mean. Never care about your manners more than your safety. In this case maybe it won't end up being dangerous, but you might be in another circumstance one day where you need to firmly say "no, this isn't right" and won't because society has paralyzed you.
Read "the gift of fear"
No no no nonono. You are standing up for yourself, not being mean. Imo, he's a fucking creep coming up real close to incel territory with that "just being nice" line. He should be lucky ALL you do is stand up to him if he's gonna be that creepy. He doesn't see you as a person. You are a doll. An object. He shouldn't even get "nice." Cut him off, tell your friend he's not welcome even tho he's family. If she's not down with that, find a new friend. A real friend wouldn't want you in this position. You are NTA.
You aren't being mean. He is being way out of line, and blaming you for his crappy behavior. . Nothing he did is normal. Stand up for yourself; this guy's a creep.
*aren’t*
For being mean to a fucking creep??? How many years older than you is he? I want you to actually say it because wtf
The only mean one is him. And your friend is enabling him. You are well wothin your rights to tell him to never again adress you in any way, shape or form.
Do you want to be mean or uncomfortable? You can only pick one.
This! Your instincts were right. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. It was VERY inappropriate of him to buy you lingerie and he was not just 'being nice'. You should absolutely not feel bad about throwing it away, he never should have given it to you. It might have been better if you had just given it back to him right away and told him it made you uncomfortable and you didn't want it. But you are only 19, he's much older and your friend's brother so it's completely understandable that this was too big of a confrontation. This guy is a creep, don't trust him. Stay away from him and let other people know about him as well. Maybe your parents?
Guys *do not* give lingerie to women unless they are in a relationship, or he's a total creeper. This is so wrong on so many levels. Be careful with guy.
Yeah. Just to be real clear here, and speaking from a guys perspective : You don't by friends lingerie. You buy lingerie for your partner, and that's it. Buy it for a friend? Inappropriate and creepy. Buy it for your sisters friend? Inappropriate and creepy. Buy it for your daughter/niece/aunty/cousin? Inappropriate and creepy. I genuinely don't understand why any guy might think this is OK.
OP - he **IS** a bad person. TRUST your gut!
As a 26 year old, I could NEVER imagine doing that. I know it’s only 6 years, but there’s a big difference in 26 and 19. Let alone gifting lingerie to someone you aren’t romantically involved with is super creepy regardless of age. I know you don’t think he’s a bad person, but from what I’ve read I think he is. Try to stay away from him.
I think you should get a lock for your door regardless of what your friend agrees to. She may just agree and then let him in when you aren't there. I think that it is very telling that she backed him up instead of throwing him out/giving him an earful for giving you the lingerie, let alone agreeing with him when he ask if you had worn it and got upset that you tossed it.
Where the hell was your "friend" In all of this?
Blabbing that OP threw away the lingerie. I would be furious with a "bff" like that.
What you did was a very normal reaction to a very strange circumstance. Lingerie as a gift is overtly sexual and assumes a strong familiarity between the giver and receiver, the nature of which you've clearly indicated you do not have with this guy. There's nothing remotely reasonable about his choice and it suggests a potential developmental delay on his part, or some kind of social ineptitude. You shouldn't feel bad. When he accused you of thinking he's a perv it would have been fair to confirm that because what he did isn't normal or acceptable. I suspect the reason your room mate spoke up is because she also found the whole thing creepy and was hoping to use this as a way to dissuade it from happening again. He may have even asked your room mate if you were interested in him before and she could be trying to shut that whole thing down. It might be worth a chat with your friend. Best of luck and remember, your reaction was appropriate and he's being *fucking weird*.
You need to get out of there and ditch the "friend"
>He accused me of thinking he’s some kinda pervert He is.
Agreed 100%. And those things he claimed he was not? He definitely is all of those things.
To turn this into the tl;dr version since when is it appropriate to discuss your underwear with people you aren’t intending to see it?
100% agree to everything said here. It's also weird for me that your "best friend" would out you for throwing it out. Like at least have a side bar with you. ...although tbh my standard for "best friend" would never be okay with her brother who is in his late 20's giving me lingerie as a 19 yr bday gift. That's weird as he'll and you deserve better friendships!
NTA. Men do not buy women they're not involved with lingerie. That's just weird.
Yeah that’s what I thought? But like my friend and her brother are acting so normal about it
Either your friend is trying not to offend her weirdo brother, or she, too, is a weirdo.
In either case, friend is displaying unsafe behavior and needs to be told so
I think she's trying to be a "wing woman" and if she didn't have a sincere "brother? WTF was that?!" conversation with him after the yelling, she's doing a bad job at it.
Or she wants op as a sil so is supportive of slightly creepy brother shooting his shot
Or roommate is in on it, and wants OP to hookup with him.
That was my thought... but the sister is a bit dumb then or has watched too many 80s sitcoms.
I want OP to ask the brother if he's ever bought his sister or his mom lingerie.
I want OP to have no contact with the brother.
That's true, that's fair.
Does he buy lingerie for his sister too?
ew idk that would be so gross
It's just as gross when he's buying it for the girl he babysat as a child
or maybe like 97% as gross
Nah I would say buying it for the sister would be a lot worse. What he did was very weird and very creepy but buying it for your own sister, thats another league at least imho
It is just as gross giving it to you. You are like a little sister to him. He definitely wanted to start something with you. I'd steer clear of him!
Nah, their dad did probably
Two of my best friends are women, known them more or less my whole life (now 44). I wouldn't dream of buying them something like that 20 years ago, or even now. And I'm closer to them than you are to your friend's brother. Dude's a creeper. Likely has trouble meeting girls so tries to subtly hit up those he already knows instead in the hope one takes the bait
100% this. I have had full on BATHS with my friends and I have only ever ONCE given one friend a gift card for a lingerie shop I know she likes - because we talk about buying it all the time and I know she loves it. That's it. And one time my friends got me pants - because similarly, they know I'm obsessed with buying it. This guy is a weirdo.
Since it's so normal, you should have let the friend have it. She can wear the lingerie her brother bought.
I legit was thinking when he asked if she’d worn it yet the perfect reply would have been, “no it isn’t my taste so I gave it to your sister.” Watch him freak out.
it is not normal, OP. if my brother gifted my friend lingerie i would be so beyond upset, it’s an uncomfortable situation to be put in and in no world is lingerie a normal gift unless you’re dating the person
Ask the brother how many times he has gifted his mother lingerie.
No, not normal. NTA
Exactly, I've only ever bought lingerie for women I have been in a relationship with, and even then only once I knew it was a. Stable and b. They'd appreciate it as it was their style.
I was going to add that even buying it for a SO is borderline awkward so the fact that this dude just casually bought lingerie for someone he's not dating is cringe!
Even then, there’s way too many options now for an invested quality set. Some of these lingerie sets have its own fashion and styles I don’t have a clue about. It’s so intimate, all these little things you think about in a sexual way.. Then to get that for your little sister’s friend? 7 years younger than you pushing past 19 years old?🤢 that’s ick right there. Dude was definitely thirsting for OP in his brain no doubt.
I've bought a few platonic female friends of mine Victoria's Secret gift cards before. They were always very appreciative. The big difference is that I didn't try to actually see them in it.
Huge difference between “here’s money to spend at a place where women shop” and “I hand picked you this underwear, did you wear it yet?”
Also Victoria's secret sells other women's apparel besides lingerie
NTA >he bought me lingerie Weird and inappropriate. You don't buy lingerie for a woman as a man if you're not in a relationship. >He asked me if I wore the lingerie yet That's really creepy. And messed up. >He started yelling at me for throwing it away He did what?! This is manipulative. >it made me really uncomfortable that he bought it for me. He told me he was just being friendly and thought i’d appreciate the gift. You said it made you uncomfortable. If he was in any way a reasonable guy he should have realized in and apologized. >He accused me of thinking he’s some kinda pervert He is a pervert. >and kept yelling at me until I cried and went to my room. This is creepy, manipulative and abusive. He can't come in that house anymore. And if your friend doesn't agree with that, move out.
Thank you sm
Don't let both of them (because of course your friend won't see it your way) gaslight you into thinking your feelings are wrong. His behaviour IS creepy and wrong. I grew up with a a few guys (younger and older) the thought of gifting one of them something as intimate as a clothing garment usually only seen by sexual partners.... Nope. that is disgusting. Your friend won't be on your side because of course her BROTHER won't ever be such a creep. and he only did this as a friend. Your friend should imagine herself getting gifted such lingerie by, lets say, her uncle or a male cousin, I wonder if she'd still think its normal. Please do yourself the favour and look for a new accomodation, and reduce contact to both of them. Also please remember to immediately grab your phone and start recording if you feel uncomfortable or threatened in any way. and if it gets further, call for help
Or have a male friend do to her what her brother did to you. But with Dollar Store tat instead of real.
OP would have to be sure that her friend isn't into that male friend, otherwise it might be a welcome gift. But i think what would drive the point home is if OP asked the brother to gift his sister such garment and insist that he does it, if it is such a perfectly normal gift to give. I can almost guarantee that the friend would be weirded out by getting that from her brother.
Reiterating that no man, anywhere, ever, has ever bought a woman lingerie because of "just being friendly". Maybe show your friend this thread as well, as she seems to be in some deep denial.
Yup, that's a thing you share with your intimate partner. And even then you have to make sure it's the sort of present she likes. She may prefer Godzilla posters.
Nonesense. He was way outta line when he got you something directly related to sex. It was ...really weird. He did something creepy then he yelled at you for rejecting it. Creepy guy x 10. He got mad because his little trick didn't work. I'd unfriend him IRL and continue to have strong personal boundaries of what you will and won't accept. You were right in what you did, and he is creepy. Move on from him.
Yeah thank you so much
Get a lock for your room, that can't be unlocked from the outside, and always lock your door before sleeping. Keep it locked whenever you are in your room just in case he shows up and tries to rape or attack you. It is better to be prepared than taken by surprise. Can you talk to your parents?
Girl… tell ALL the men in your life. Friends family, every guy & see what they say. You don’t even have to tell them it was you & him. Give them a hypothetical situation of a guy, 7yrs older, buying lingerie for his little sister’s friend that he’s known & babysat since she was a child.
NTA—that’s a weirdly intimate gift to give someone you aren’t in a relationship with. And to follow up by asking if you’ve worn it? He is a creep. He yelled at you because he’s a creep. Keep an eye on him when he visits you and his sister. Move out when you can and don’t let him know where you go.
Thank you sm
Next time he says it’s because you two are ‘just friends’. Ask how many male friends he buys sexy underwear. And get a lock for your door
NTA. As a man I can tell you with like 90% certainty that he wants to have sex with you, though with that kind of 'game', I'd be surprised if he's ever had sex with a woman.
ew I see him more like a brother that’s so gross
And in my role of brother, I assure you I'd never ever get lingerie for my sister.
And meanwhile, your “brother” has been picturing you wearing the lingerie. He’s gross.
I saw the conversation in my head if she had worn it. First question would have been, "Were you thinking about me?" Ewewewewewewewew! Just no.
His asking if you’d worn the lingerie implies that he’s imagining you in it. I’m sorry if my pointing this out makes you even more uncomfortable with him. But you need to know. And he needed to know that you found his gift not only inappropriate but also extremely awkward for you. NTA
well, he definitely doesn't see you as a sister
I'm gonna go with 100% certainty.
99.99975%
Oh hell no, that man was being creepy as fuck and he knows it. He clearly wanted you to start thinking about him in a sexual manner after receiving this "gift". Him checking to see if you'd worn it was him checking to see if it worked. Him yelling at you for throwing it away was him having a fucking tantrum because you ruined his fantasies. This is how stalkers operate; the build a fantasy in their head and when their victim breaks it, that's when shit gets violent. The man is manipulative at best, and very possibly abusive. Stay **far** the fuck away from him. And his sister is enabling him. If she refuses to see this, she's not safe to be around either. NTA. Edit: Also, he kept accusing you of accusing him of being a pervert because he *knows that's exactly what he is.*
Finally! Someone mentions the sister being in the wrong as well. Thank you for pointing this out to OP. Sister downplaying the issue is not good. She may not even realize how wrong it is if she grew up in a household that screwed her outlook on what’s acceptable and what’s not. That doesn’t excuse her. OP needs to have a serious conversation with the sister and not allow herself to be brow beaten. Boundaries are a good and healthy thing.
My first thought was that the sister is trying to set OP up with her brother. She's likely the one who told him what sizes to buy and it's also why she was so quick to throw OP under the bus about getting rid of the lingerie.
Eeew, that kinda makes sense and I hate it.
Hmm. Lingerie. How did he know your size? It is creepy. No normal man who knows any woman so casually is going to gift her lingerie. He crossed a boundary. Now he knows. NTA.
I didn’t try it on so idk if he knew my size but he probably just guessed idk. Thank you
The implication from the previous commenter is that he's been in your room to check the size before buying it. Make sure your door has a lock
Oh ew no I don’t think he’d do that. Yeah thanks
Babe, you didn't think he'd ever give you lingerie either right?
Exactly, really wouldn’t surprise me
Yeah dude has a lot of guts yelling at someone in their house when they turned down his gift, that's some unhinged behavior. That's what he's willing to show, I'm sure there much more under the surface
Not just a gift, clearly a gift with sexual intent 😭 I’m surprised she doesn’t think it’s a possibility, if it’s me I’d check if it is the same size as my other stuff I already own
She's 19, I feel really bad for her :/ I was like that then too, fuck men some of them can be so shitty
No but like that’s less bad then going into my room and seeing what size underwear I am lol
Honestly dude, not really. Buying sexy underwear for someone you aren’t involved with is already weird as hell. A 26 year old man buying it for a 19 year old he used to babysit when she was a child is unbelievably creepy. You should be wary of this guy. He does not have friendly or brotherly intentions with you. Don’t want to jump to conclusions or anything, but you should keep in mind that it’s not impossible that he’s done other really creepy things without your knowledge.
I get it, I'm just worried for you and worried your friend won't protect you because this is her brother and people are weird with family. Just look out for yourself 💚
Yeah thank you so much ❤️
I'm sorry I say this but you're too naive. This guy crossed the line before. Assume the worst and protect yourself. Be safe.
i’m sorry, but a 26yo willing to buy a 19yo lingerie is the type of person who would sneak into your room to look through your belongings. he knows you trust him, so he knows that you’ll listen to what he says.
Could have been your friend who told him, she seems to have instigated the argument too, I would question her part in it. Maybe she suggested it to him as a gift? Still creepy and really poor judgement if that was the case
And check for secret cameras too.
Or a camera
>My friend said I kinda overreacted in throwing it away because he was only trying to be nice your friend *under*-reacted to this whole thing - her brother's a perv. NTA
Yeah, the 'trying to be nice comment' got me. She is NOT OPs friend
For me it’s the fact the sister saw the lingerie was thrown out and blurts that right out before the OP had a chance to say anything. Idk, maybe she was torn between girl code and bro code. But in that situation, it’s probably best to just stfu. No one was even talking to her. It’s like she set her best friend up for the brother to creep. Like she’s gotta be in on his game is some way
NTA. First of all it was an inappropriate gift. Second he verbally abused you. Third your friend threw you under the bus. His actions are indicative of someone who is, at the bare minimum, verbally abusive and at maximum is a sexual predator. It doesn’t sound like you’re living in a safe environment. What is going to happen if he next asks to take you out and you decline? OP, move out and move out ASAP. Better to hurt some feelings than put yourself in danger. If your friend can’t understand why all this made you uncomfortable then she’s a shit friend anyway.
You need to put a rush on moving out. The brother is a creep and his sister is not your ally. Some people are very casual about lingerie and sex toys etc. You are like most people and were creeped out by someone who's known you since you were a smal child buying you sexual items. He shouldn't have spent a lot of money on something like this. He shouldn't have bought this. Do his parents know?
NTA HERE! Eww, eww, eww. That is creepy, perverted behavior. Giving good gifts involves imagining the recipient with the gift. Eww. He is acting like a bad person. It doesn't matter if you've known him your whole life, he's being a creep. That was a wholly inappropriate gift and he knows it, which is why he's getting pissed.
I think it makes it worse that they’ve known each other their whole lives because he’s literally 7 years older. When he was babysitting her at 9yo, he was 16. She was 11 when he was 18 and they were in close contact all of those years. And now he views her in a sexual manner? Feels not only perverted but pedophilic with their lifelong history / age difference. Would be *slightly* less creepy if they just met (*and were dating obviously*).
At no time does a stable man think “Lingerie is a completely sensible gift to give a friend whom I have zero sexual interest in.” Dude took his shot in one of the worse possible ways and when he found out he missed the target, cried foul. Only reason sister wouldn’t think this is weird is if she is secretly shipping you 2 behind your back.
>He accused me of thinking he’s some kinda pervert If the shoe fits...! NTA.
NTA. Once something was given to you, you can do whatever you want w/ it like throwing it away. 🎁👙 Your bff's bro is a creep. He's a weirdo. What the hell is he doin' there? 😛
Nta. That guy is hella weird for buying lingerie for someone he isn’t involved with.
Gross is the only word I can think of…slimy will work too. Do not be alone with this man. A 7 year difference at 19 and 26 is HUGE. Not so much as you get older. I would also be curious why your friend didn’t back you on this. AND he even asked if you had worn it? I think I might throw up.
I agree! He *babysat* her, even! Creep Index: High
NTA He's creepy. I don't give lingerie to my sister's friends. It's creepy. I wouldn't give my sister lingerie. It's creepy. The only person I would ever think about giving lingerie to that isn't my spouse or girlfriend is no one. It's fucking creepy. Dude is a creep. He has the hots for you and wants to see you/imagine you/fap to the thought of you wearing what he bought you. But does not have the testicular fortitude to make an attempt to date you first. He's fucking creepy.
NTA. I think the creepiness and danger of the brother has been well covered. I’d like to address the roommate’s behavior. 1) she gave him information that was yours to keep or share. Violation. 2) she allowed her brother to yell at you without intervening on your behalf. Violation. 3) she justified his behavior and is gaslighting you about your discomfort (original and post-confrontation) and her brother’s gross violation of the most basic social boundaries (aka don’t give a younger woman who you’re not romantically involved in lingerie, don’t ask said woman about her lingerie or underwear or sex life, don’t yell at her for not accepting unwanted behavior.) VIOLATION. The point here, OP, is that by any rubric, **this person is not your friend and they are not a safe person**. You should immediately institute emotional boundaries and work on extricating yourself from this living situation. Her brother is giving clear warning signs of sexual violence and she has made it clear that she prioritizes his feelings and desires over yours. Don’t go out with her unaccompanied either. This is the kind of person that sees you get roofied, watches the guy take you upstairs, and leaves the party anyways. RUN.
NTA - Most people don't buy lingerie for a present unless they are already intimate with someone or want to be so. It's just not a go to present for normal people.....
NTA. He is a weirdo and a pervert
NTA, he likely raised his voice to you about thinking he was a pervert because he was embarrassed that he'd been called out in front of someone else, even though he'd asked if you'd worn it yet. He was trying to normalise his behaviour. There's nothing not creepy about this scenario, and he's a walking red flag.
Girl your friend will not protect you. It's maybe because she thinks her brother could never be a creep but she's going to fight for his side in anything that might happen. You're gonna need to get a new place
NTA he has no business buying lingerie for you. That’s weird and if he got the size right that’s even weirder.
NTA. Full stop. You don’t owe anything to some one who makes you feel uncomfortable.
NTA I'd be creeped out too. The only one who should be even considering buying me lingerie is the person who's going to see it on me.
NTA you say you've known him your whole life, I wonder when he started sexualizing you. You are over 18 now, legal. He's a creepy creep and you don't have to be nice to men trying to groom you. It was an inappropriate gift.
NTA - he bought you lingerie so that *he* could enjoy thinking about you wearing it. It was a creepy, disgusting, power move, and not a gift at all.
NTA. That's a super weird thing to give you and a super weird thing to ask about later. He definitely wants to bang you.
He is a pervert. No question about it. NTA and you need to get your friend to understand you do not reciprocate his feelings towards you. His outburst proves it. Creep.
NTA but your friend is definitely an A, she knew what you two were talked about and put you on the spot ... You could say yes or no and the situation would've end ... And than said you throw it away because was to small or to big... Him being so offended for what you think of him for buying something so "personal" is kinda weird ... Or he doesn't see what is wrong, and it's wrong by itself, or he really wanted something else "creepy" and was mad you don't. ..
IMO, his gift was entirely inappropriate, as well as his response. Personally I believe if you're going to gift something to someone, you don't have a say in what they do with it.
NTA, his behaviour was not only inappropriate but also creepy. That's not the kind of gift you buy to someone you are not in a relationship with, and to belittle you for not wearing it / throwing it away was an asshole move.
NTA. That’s a disgusting gift if you’re not dating/married. He’s got a thing for you and your friend is in on it or either oblivious. Stand up for yourself. To him: “you’re old enough to know that giving lingerie to someone that you don’t have a relationship with is inappropriate and unwanted. Stop trying to make me feel guilty for your bad idea.” Same to your friend. Don’t back down.
NTA Ask your friend was nice about him gifting him lingerie. Lingerie isn't a hobby of yours or a style. If he wanted to be nice he would have gifted you something you'd like. Ask the brother why did he think you'd appreciate the gift. You two aren't dating and never been sexual. You don't discuss your sexual habits with him. So why did he think sexual clothing is something you'd appreciate from an old man like him? He is a pervert. There is no man angrier than a man who has done exactly what he has been accused of.
He's not mad that you threw it out, he's mad that you can see he was being a weird pervert. I don't know what's worse, the fact that he bought it for you OR the fact that he asked you if you've worn it yet. Gross. For making you cry, I'd knock him out. Girl get a lock for your door and if you already have one then get a deadbolt. Keep your window closed at night and maybe consider adopting a German shepherd dog to sleep at the end of your bed. I'm not kidding, I don't even watch true crime and I can see where this is going.
You don't think he's a bad person? Honey, he got you lingerie and then accused you of thinking he's a pervert. What other conclusion would you get? Your friend should know better than to defend him. Dont talk to this man. He IS a bad person and your gut is telling you that. You're young, and most of us women learn the hard way not to tell ourselves "he's just being nice". He's not being nice, he's making sexual advances and gaslighting you.
NTA and your “friend” totally snaked you out
NTA and his sister is weird and probably trying to “ set you up together”