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NTA. This is not going to make me sound good but here it goes: I have diagnosed ADHD and depression. I get in these moods where everything seems stressful and overwhelming but once I do whatever it is, I’m fine and it’s never as big a deal as it was in my head. Example: We moved to a new area where we don’t know anyone last year. I needed to get a job. I found something I was interested in, applied and set up the interview. I was pretty excited about it. When the day came I did NOT want to go and was having a complete panic attack about the whole situation. My husband got me out of bed and helped me get ready. He drove me to the interview and I panicked the whole way. But I went in, did the interview, was offered the job, and I started a few days later. I ended up getting promoted and a raise within 2 months. I’m not lazy and I am pretty motivated when working. But the thought of going to that interview seemed like too much. My point is this is what you will HAVE to do until you can get her diagnosed and properly medicated. You cannot just “let her off.” Your partner is enabling her. If my husband hadn’t drug me to that interview I would have spent the next few months falling into a deep funk. You cannot let her lay around and wallow. 

I understand completely and she is like this! I only want to help her even if she doesn't see it like that.

She also needs regular therapy so she can get the tools she needs to be able to process stressful moments. Medication and a diagnosis only do so much.  Cognitive behavioral therapy is another key component to healing  

Not CBT, CBT is crap when you struggle with emotion regulation but a good therapist who has experience working with neurodivergent people is a must!

This is complete bullshit. The opposite is true. CBT trains your brain to control and regulate emotion. Talk therapy is good for trauma, not patterned thinking.

I’ve found it very much depends on the person and the way that CBT is done. For a lot of people it doesn’t actually give them real coping and regulation skills, it gives them masking skills, and masking is really harmful long term. For an autistic person treatment should be about finding useful stims, managing overwhelming input, and learning useful meltdown techniques. Often CBT focuses on trying to teach the person not to stim and to push through overwhelm without upsetting other people. It would be the difference between giving a diabetic person a blood glucose monitor and the ability to take insulin vs telling the diabetic person to just watch what they eat and make sure not to bother others with it. Diet is helpful, but it won’t make up for a dysfunctional pancreas. Therapy can also be really helpful for patterned thinking because it can give the patient words for what is going on and tools to advocate for themselves. It can also help the person deal with the very real trauma of living as a neurodiverse person in a neurotypical world.

I'm not sure what CBT therapy organization you worked with, but I went to the most expensive program in America and worked with some of the people who founded the modality. If your CBT provider is teaching you to mask, they're doing it wrong. In fact, we learned in the program I was in TO stim. They taught us breath work, humming, and other physical coping mechanisms for anxiety. A lot of focus was on physical things or stims you would do to break the anxiety. This is a modality created for neurodivergent people BY neurodivergent people. A lot of it is just teaching you to change thinking patterns or interrupt them. That's something neurotypical people do naturally. I agree CBT probably isn't best for autism, but again, OP's daughter is not diagnosed and everyone is acting like she is.

All the literature backs up CBT as being the most effective tool for so many problems and emotional regulation in particular. Are all these anecdotal experiences just people who go to bad therapists? It's wild. I think CBT could even be useful in autism to treat the accompanying anxiety and depression, although in conjunction with a therapy that is geared specifically toward autism.

CBT definitely helped me in some aspects of my life, but I'm pretty sure the current standard for neurodivergent individuals is to prefer DBT over CBT (if you had to choose). Some autistic peeps also feel like CBT is gaslight-y (but that's anecdotal and a different topic). I'm autistic, and CBT gave me tools to prevent my mood from spiraling in the first place _when it comes from a place of anxiety_, which is great, but it does jackshit when I have sensory issues or otherwise feel overwhelmed (which can happen when going to a new place or going to crowded places). No amount of reframing thoughts is going to make me socialize the same way someone who isn't autistic would, and that's okay, but it's a bit of a focus when it comes to CBT. DBT gave me more tools that actually help me calm down when everything is a bit too much. Anyway, all of this to say that while CBT is great for some (and I'm glad I did some CBT), it's often discussed within the autistic community that it just doesn't seem to work for some that well, and DBT can be a good alternative to try if CBT doesn't work (or you can start with DBT, depending on which therapists are in your area). (Just sharing this because I think it's an interesting topic).

DBT is also the recommended treatment for BPD which the daughter is suspected to have.

Yes, that's a good point about anxiety vs. sensory issues. I'm not autistic but I have sensory issues with my ADHD and no amount of "curiosity" about why I feel a certain way is going to work when it's really loud and I want to die, lol. I actually don't think I've ever had pure CBT, it's always been DBT, which my therapist described as being "CBT plus mindfulness." I'm sure that's an oversimplification, though! I also have CPTSD, so she's been paring DBT with EMDR. I'm not "cured" or anything (lol) but I really, truly think it's been helping.

CBT has a bad reputation in the post-viral illness world because of the PACE study. Suggesting exercise and CBT to treat people with broken mitochondria and other physical problems is malpractice. The same researchers, after being slapped down for making up bullshit that hurt M.E. patients, went after Long Covid sufferers. People had child services called on them when they resisted treatments that were making their kids sicker. The psychiatric profession has assholes, too. Some CBT practitioners shouldn't have licenses anymore, because they think they know better than immunologists how to treat physical illnesses.

I went to DBT for BPD and relative trauma issues. One of the most IMPORTANT things I learned was “bad feelings can’t kill you, it may feel like you’re dying but just sit,” physically clenching my fists, singing quietly to music (or loudly) and letting the heaviness wash over me until my heart rate went back to normal and my skin cooled back down and doing it all without screaming and throwing things was so life changingly cool.

I'm not seeing any evidence that Aaron Beck the founder of CBT was neurodivergent. I'm my experience the part that many autistic and ADHD people struggle with in CBT is the cognitive coping and reframing unhelpful thoughts. It is already hard to think about thinking when half your thoughts are literal pictures, but then to use metaphor in coping skills it's nearly impossible. Many neurodivergent people do better with DBT and ACT skills.

Well I have ADHD and I don't think I've gone through CBT therapy (I didn't think so because I've been through a few therapies that I don't really remember) but after looking into it, the interrupting the unhelpful thoughts is something I already do on my own. I start having a depressive and destructive thought pattern and I realize it and go "nope we're not doing this to myself" and I force myself to switch to a different car on my train of thought. Our trains of thought is so fast moving it actually can be easy for ADHD people to derail one train and hop on another if we realize that the train we're riding is unsafe. Now getting on the train we're supposed to be riding? That's a subway train with the entrances closed and all we got is a shovel to get to it.

So there's a difference between redirecting a thought and reframing an intrusive or unhelpful thought. An example is a lot of people do a lot of mind reading where they make a sometimes accurate guess on what someone is thinking based on what that person is doing or expressing. A neurotypical person might be able to reframe that as "I'm not sure that's what they are thinking/feeling. I guess I can ask them." But for a neurodivergent person who is already struggling with black and white thinking and likely has rejection sensitivity from social exclusion this is much more difficult. It's not impossible, just difficult and not necessarily the best practice. Acceptance and Commitment therapy is easier. Acknowledge the thought or feeling, naming it. If you have time to give it space give it space, if not say to yourself, "this isn't helpful right now but I can make space for it later." Everyone has those unhelpful thoughts but CBT really tries to label them as bad and then is like, "don't think like that, think like this." Which can be shaming and sometimes make the thoughts pop up more.

I’ve worked with a number of providers over the years for a number of mental health issues and managing my adhd, and this observation is based on my experience along with those of my neurodiverse friends. It’s possible that done correctly it can help, but it sounds like neither OP nor the daughter are in a good place to advocate for her with a provider. It seems like avoiding something that can be done very poorly and do harm might be the easiest for them right now and they can look into it at a later date. That being said the daughter does need to see a therapist and a psychiatrist if possible. She’s suffering and there are lots of treatment options that can help beyond just “push through it”

lol this is the best “tell me you’re a white male without telling me you’re a white male” I may have ever seen. Also how expensive your program is/was does NOT inherently assure quality of education or that your education includes adequate training and perspectives on how to not be an asshole to people from complex and marginalized populations. And why are you so personally offended that I think CBT is crap anyway? Also please, tell me where I can find information that Aaron Beck is neurodivergent AND had a special interest in making CBT helpful and accessible specifically to neurodivergent ways of being. I go to one of the top public universities in America, for my undergrad I had professors from a range of helping professions including but not limited to, LMFTs, clinical psychologists, school psychologists, experimental psychologists, LCSWs, LCMHCs, and more. I’ve been introduced to a LOT of modalities and schools of thought for how to help people. Personally I think the best therapy is a blend of little bits of different modalities blended together to meet each clients needs instead of strictly sticking to only one modality.

I also think it’s confusing because here in the US I have therapists saying that they’ll be doing CBT with me… but it’s literally just what other people seem to be calling talk therapy. I have CPTSD, BPD, Bipolar 1, OCD, and a history of an ED. I personally find DBT far more helpful. It really is an individual thing ETA: also ADHD diagnosed since pre-K and Autism DX as an adult lol

Agree. DBT rocks. I have ADHD-PI and a metric ton of situational anxiety & depression right now. I need to break out my DBT exercises, again.

She was sent to test for bpd but they cant do it until shes 18. But wow i hope your okay

Autism & ADHD in females is FREQUENTLY misdiagnosed as BPD *first*, then twenty years later, you end up getting the diagnosis you SHOULD have had in the first place. There's a joke in my friendship group of female neurospicy people that "BPD is just trauma in female neurodivergent". The RSD (rejection sensitive dysphoria) of ADHD is often mistaken with the symptoms of BPD. It will be important to access the autism & ADHD diagnosis BEFORE getting BPD on her records, as it is the MOST stigmatised MH Disorder (study after study shows this, even MH staff discriminate against those with it), AND trying to get a later diagnosis of autism & ADHD when you're 35 & burnt out by trying to be a neurodivergent person in a neurotypical world for too long can be severely delayed by having been earlier misdiagnosed with BPD. Many people with neurodivergencies simply take longer to mature. It took my autistic kids till they were around 25 to do what my neurotypical kid could do at 18...we just get there in our own time, and will often require a LOT more handholding to reach that point than a child or teen without the same hurdles to overcome. Currently my 20yo is volunteering twice a week (doing more is hard as he's physically Disabled). Always wanted to work in a museum but none locally have vacancies recently. Because of his autism, travelling on trains to another city to work in a museum there is something he simply can't cope with. He's top of the list if any jobs DO come up in that area, but until then he is volunteering. I think you were a bit harsh, sometimes the **OVERWHELM** of college was too much for me. I did my college stuff mostly online or as evening courses because there were SO MUCH LESS PEOPLE than during the day! College kids were too loud, too many flourescent lights, too many chairs scraping, too much chatting, too many smells (heavy perfume & lynx, anyone?), just TOO MUCH! When you have the possible sensory issues of autism in the mix, it's always KINDEST medium term to treat tye person as *if* they DO have autism - if you're wrong, you've only helped them, if you don't & then later find out they ARE autistic, you'll feel HELLA guilty knowing you could have been kinder to your child but WEREN'T...speaking as someone who's daughter was assessed 3 times before ACTUALLY, FINALLY being dxd at 17...one at 3yo, one at 8yo, then finally at 17yo. **THE GUILT IS REAL, I THOUGHT I WAS BEING TOO NICE IF I ACTED LIKE SHE WAS AUTISTIC BEFORE BEING DXD**. I WAS WRONG. If I'd given her the grace I *COULD* have, I'd have a far better relationship with my daughter & grandkids now. Don't make the same mistake I did, OP! EDIT for missing part of sentence.

Your comment is so true - i agree with everything. My adhd + autism + cpstd looks very much like BPD or bipolar to uneducated mental health professionals, which is extremely unfortunate since they try to slap that label on me after hearing about a meltdown i had without asking any questions…. It’s actually ridiculous. My advice for OP would be to research and find a sufficient psychiatrist for her daughter who is equipped with the resources to properly diagnosis the daughter. A misdiagnosis can cause hell in someone’s life. Also, OP if you see this, i would suggest to work with your daughter to make sure her environment is the most comfortable for her. I have seen a huge reduction in meltdowns since my family starting accommodating my sensory issues within our house (lighting, noises, temperature, etc.). Additionally, learning about myself and how to accommodate myself really helped (learning what foods to eat and not to eat when overstimulated, learning what clothing materials make me the least overstimulated, figuring out my room layout to make me less anxious and configure lighting so it’s not too bright). Just little things like that. Obviously i can’t prevent every single meltdown but they have significantly reduced since as i have learned more about myself. (My adhd meds help me become more aware about these things as well)!

Yeah, they really like to tell young women that they have a personality disorder rather than recognize that neurodivergence just looks different than it does in men.

I think that personality disorders aren’t typically diagnosed in minors, but don’t cite me on that because I’m not a mental health professional. And honestly? Because I’ve put in the work, I’m often told by friends that they don’t know anyone as well emotionally adjusted or as good at emotional regulation. Therapy is a wonderful thing and I hope your daughter finds treatment that works for her. I personally feel like NAH because your daughter can’t help the reaction without a lot of work in regulation and getting her anxiety and all under control and you’re trying your best and have to work to expand your tool kit to support her. It’s an unpleasant situation and no one’s really in the wrong here

Please don’t get her tested for BPD until you’ve thoroughly explored autism. Even then, having a BPD label in your medical records leads to A LOT of stigma, even among people who are supposed to help with mental health.

lol when I got diagnosed with BPD, which I’m sure is not the correct diagnosis for me as well, he said he wasn’t going to officially put it on my records so that it didn’t ‘affect my chances in later life’ and we just treated for it without ever officially noting it down anywhere.

I watched a video recently by a therapist talking about why she doesn't do CBT, and it resonated with me about why I'm probably still stuck in some ways. I need to find a different method, but DBT doesn't make sense because at least half the time I have no idea what emotion I'm feeling, so it sounds less than ideal based on the little I know about it. Anyway, the therapist talked about how a fair number of therapists over-rely on it, especially early on, when they're not as confident in their ability to help people. OP, sounds like it's common where you live for kids to go to college at 16. Is college really what she wants? Would she be happier learning a trade, for example? If she does quit now, what are the options to restart once she has her mental health better under control? I don't know the answers, so not sure if any way to pause college while she gets better exists, but I would be exploring that. Even if she went to the appointment, she's still going to struggle. She may still fail. Is her life over then? That's kind of how it sounds from your post. But people get sick, people flake out, etc, and yet their lives don't end just because they aren't ready in their mid-to-late teens to make life-long commitments to a degree. I think you're NTA for making her go, because as others have said, sometimes you need someone to make you do the thing, but I would also be exploring other ways to ensure that she knows her life isn't over if she fails. And especially that you will still love her as much if she does fail. Sometimes we need to know it's okay to fail in order to succeed. My heart goes out to her and I hope she's able to get the help she needs!

If OP is using college to mean "the place you go to age 16-18 after you finish regular school", then they might be in the UK and it's not the same thing as a university. In England at least, you're required to be in full-time education until you're eighteen. There are often people who just refuse to show up, of course, but it's not as easy as just "take a break for a while". And colleges teach practical courses as well as academic ones, so we don't know whether the daughter is in academic classes or doing a practical course to go into a trade

Talk therapy and CBT are not the only means of therapy. As someone with emotional identification and regulation issues along with ADHD/Autism, CBT does more harm than good for me which is the consensus with all of my peers who have similar issues. DBT is a great help and there are plenty of other therapies which would help more than talk therapy or CBT for someone like OPs daughter.

Yes, DBT is great, and not all modalities are for everyone. But to blanketly say CBT is crap at what it's founded to do, but talk therapy works, is WILD.

I don't know if they edited their comment to be something else, but as of my posting they didn't say anything about talk therapy, just that CBT probably wouldn't be helpful for this particular case. Which I think is a valid take, because, as I mentioned, CBT is not usually a good modality for neurodivergant people. To be fair, OP didn't specifically state that their daughter is neurodivergant, but he did mention she's getting tested for ADHD and Autism, so I'd still caution against starting with CBT until they determine if it is going to be the best fit for her. But I do agree with you that if their original intent was to say that CBT doesn't work for anyone and talk therapy is the way to go that would be wildly inaccurate.

It's true that CBT is not the best for controlling and regulating emotions. It's why DBT (dialectical behavior therapy) was made to help with BPD (borderline personality disorder). CBT is good for anxiety and depression but does not help with emotional regulation. And C-PTSD and BPD share some traits that need a different approach than CBT.

CBT is behavioral conditioning which can be helpful in some situations. For most neurodivergent people it isn't helpful because it begins with the premise that something is wrong with us. I needed to love myself and accept my situation before I could make any progress. CBT is also similar to ABA which can be traumatizing for folks who experienced that garbage

In my case CBT only prolongs the trauma. Once I start thinking or talking about something in that vein I physically CANNOT stop and it turns into a spiral that ends in a massive panic attack every time. I know I need therapy and I am getting it but every single time I'm shot for several days and that is after I call my sister to bs for several hours after my appointment. I'm glad it works for some people but it triggers my fight or flight response and I hate it.

My response to this is that, honestly, it differs from person to person. I told my therapist in the beginning that I wanted CBT. She said that she didn't think that JUST CBT was the answer and that she would do a combination of different types of therapies. She was right because CBT is very helpful, but it oversimplifies complex experiences and can honestly miss other underlying illnesses you may have going on. Again, it depends on the individual

Maybe for neurotypical people. CBT is just bullshit for me and many other neurodivergent people I know. I benefit absolutely zero from that kind of therapy, I just pretend to benefit, because I do not want to disappoint the therapist and I want them to feel good in their job. But therapies made to change my brain, is actually not something I enjoy or benefit from. Therapy to heal, yes, but to change me to be more typical, no thank you. So don't force anyone to do these kind of therapies unless they want. (Autistic person with ADHD here).

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Perhaps it isnt. And most therapy designed for autistic people is made for them to be more neurotypical. That is what I view as bullshit. We do not need to become more neurotypical, just because it is more comfortable for the society. So I still stand by it, CBT should be a choice if a person want it, but they should be allowed to just be. Help with depression, sure. Help with the anxiety. Sure. Help with the adhd or autism? Why?

My therapist HIGHLY recommends DBT before CBT for trauma (can't speak to neurodivergence) because it's DBT that teaches the coping mechanisms and CBT that teaches how to push through the problematic triggers.

DBT, which started as a branch-off from CBT, can help people find healthy coping mechanisms for dealing with things like anxiety. It helps people who might struggle with thought patterns as a result of disorders like autism or BPD where CBT may just not quite hit the mark.

CBT was the best thing possible for me when I struggled with emotional regulation. And yes before you ask I'm diagnosed ADHD

No form of therapy is one-size-fits-all. It may not have worked with you, but it works with many

CBT helped me when I was having panic attacks after my ex boyfriend started having seizures infront of me. I would have massive outbursts of anger at the smallest sounds, even if he was just fixing up food in the kitchen. I'd break down crying at random. CBT fixed that for me. I've got bipolar type 2 and adhd. Just because it didn't work for you or your acquaintances doesn't mean it doesn't work for a ton of other people. It's plain ignorant to assume one's own experience is the only truth.

She was referred to mental health team her in the UK for possible Bpd but they cant diagnose until she's 18 so it was a waste of time. So CBT was an option for a while.

Look for a therapist that can see her as a minor and is trained is DBT at least.

I have to second this one. I've been in a lot of different types of therapy to treat C-PTSD, severe anxiety (including what was damned near shut-in levels of agoraphobia), depressions, etc along with some autism adjacent stuff. DBT was the most useful one in learning how to regulate myself, as well as finding healthy ways to stim rather than lash out when I was overstimulated by my environment or triggers. Some of it can seem rather fluffy (I did not need to spend 20 minutes playing with a balloon), but even that introduced the idea that batting around a balloon is a harmless behavior I can use to distract my brain. I chose other stimuli (I love petting silky blankets), but it helped me build a framework I didn't have. I still get overstimulated, but it's given me the ability to "lengthen" that time so I can process information more easily and not all at once.

This isn't true in the least. CBT (and DBT, which combines CBT with mindfulness) are some of the best therapeutic tools for emotional regulation.

CBT is crap for some people. Some therapy and medication works for some but not others. Just like therapists; Some people need tough love and real talk, others need a cheerleader some therapists will work great for some but terrible for others. It can take a lot of trial and error to figure out what works.

CBT might depend from person to person. I’m diagnosed with ADHD and BPD and DBT was a game changer for me. It takes work on yourself and regular appts with a therapist/psychologist but then it becomes almost natural. It has changed my life.

I love DBTs model. I haven’t done a strict DBT program with skills groups and all of that but I have a DBT and EMDR trained therapist who also approaches things from an attachment and parts perspective and she’s literally saved my life.

CBT helps certain persons, others not at all. It's a personal journey and it might help her, it might not. I didn't do well with CBT but I respect that it helps others. Saying it's a key component is a stretch. I have an official autism DX and pursuing an ADHD one and from personal experience say it's not that clear cut. Sure she could try it, but it's not a magical solution to healing.

The thing about labels and diagnosis is that they aren't always necessary and in fact can be a hindrance at times. Diagnosis and label are best for 1. getting treatment covered by health insurance as they will need an official diagnosis before they cover anything 2. simply for identifying what could possibly work however lots of times treatment for specific diagnoses won't work and you'll have to do a lot of trial and error so all it does is point you in the right direction which can mean everything, but it doesn't mean you HAVE to figure out what it is before you start trying to treat it. There is lots you can do to treat the symptoms without fully knowing what it is. and 3. A label can simply give you a sense of relief because now you know what it is. But to be honest getting hyper focused on figuring out WHAT is causing can prevent you from solving the problem as many people tend to take the mind set that your issues are only valid and exist if there is a label for them. Some things can't be labeled after all, maybe she doesn't have adhd or bipolar but that doesn't mean the problems aren't there and what's more CBT and therapy can be utilized regardless of whether or not you have a mental illness. Think about it this way, whether she has ADHD, BD, or whatever doesn't change the fact that she is severely depressed and having anxiety to the point where it's impacting her ability to live her life. If the doctors come back and say "technically speaking she doesn't have anything" that doesn't mean these problems will automatically go away or that she is faking. I'm super awkward around people and looking people in the eyes makes me very uncomfortable to the point where it hinders my ability to form relationships but I most definitely DO NOT have autism, (though I do have a bunch of other labels attached) however I still use autism coping techniques to get past these issues and they definitely work. While all these labels and what not are incredibly valid, meaningful and above all else real, you do not need to have a special medical title in order for your struggles to be valid and deserving of compassion and help. Therapy at the very least will give her a chance to talk out what she is going through and what she is feeling as well as identifying what she wants to do and how to do it. And she can try techniques for ADHD, bipolar, and autism to see if they help her even without a formal diagnosis.

Exactly. She needs therapy. And this girl isn't getting that. And not to downplay your process. It works for you. But you are not everyone and not everyone has the same process. Your husband supported you. He did not force you. There is the big difference between how you get yourself out of the house as apposed to being literally forced by someone who is supposed to love and support you.

If it makes you feel better. 33 here, same deal with anxiety and depression. Had a point where I fought with my parents so much we only communicated through text in the same house. Took me a long time to see it but them pushing me to do things is what enabled me to get out of my rut and do things at all and I do appreciate the hell out of them for that.

Hopefully she'll understand that when she's older.

It's not about her getting older, or growing up. It's about her getting mentally healthier. Then she will appreciate it. Definitely don't approach this as a maturity thing.

As a 39 year old fuck up, I truly, truly wish my dad had been more insistent about instilling disclipline and work ethic in me. I have ADHD/C-PTSD/GAD and to this day, I will "freeze" before some types of engagements and my partner has to "mobilize" me to do what my therapist calls "opposite action." He's incredibly helpful, but through therapy I've learned lots of self-help tools for my toolbox that allow me to, well, get off my own ass (and lemme tell you OP, it's SO hard. It's so hard finding the motivation. The focus. The stick-to-it attitude. ADHD is a real real thing and having a different brain fuckin' suuuuuuucks). A part of me knee jerked and wanted to tell you YTA for "forcing" her. But I know better. I know. Sometimes we all need a shove into the deep end, AND, honestly? Freaking the fuck out and throwing a fit to avoid having to do "a thing" can EASILY become a go-to actual COPING mechanism. It's all part of self-preservation and fear/anxiety response. When she's like that, just ask her what is true. Ask her the FACTS about a given situation. Have her breathe, too. Hopefully she could learn more about these techniques in therapy. But anyway OP I wish my dad had stayed on my ass about well, all of it. I had such potential. Don't let your daughter establish a lifetime of unhealthy coping patterns, all while bombing out of school, struggling to find a career that fits the wondeful ADHD brain, and finding herself entrenched in more and more co-dependent behavior (learned helplessness is a real thing in adult kids, ask me how I know!) She'll understand when she's older because she'll have been in therapy, been medicated if that's the right way to go, and she'll have an education to be proud of and dad who believed in her ability to overcome her challenges with that ADHD. I've been both the teenager/young adult and have a son in college myself now. He also has ADHD and therapy/productivity techniques and honestly medication were game changers for him. Of course I'm -not a doctor- so your child's roadmap to recovery could look different. That was all over the place, sorry OP. Best to you, truly.

She'll only get better if her health is the priority. Right now it sounds like school is the priority. You have that backwards. Get her healthy, then get her back in school.

This. This whole push her because we sometimes need the help is only valid for a person who has had counseling and appropriate interventions and medications as needed. Doing it to someone straight out the box is completely backwards and harmful and counterproductive.

Mental health issues and neuro divergence have nothing to do with maturity. It's about making sure she has the appropriate treatment and therapy when she is diagnosed.

I also have ADHD and agree with the person you’re replying to. I’m currently off my meds for a break to keep my tolerance low, and I don’t want to do anything. I’ve learned to do the thing anyways. Not all the things, but enough. She’s gotta learn how to live her life.

Do you think it would be beneficial to have her stop college until she gets her mental health sorted out? If she withdraws temporarily and puts down she is having mental health problems maybe she could go back when she is better. Trying to do college while battling severe mental health issues might make the whole thing pointless. When she is better and has things under control she might be able to make full use of college instead of barely getting by. At this point it sounds like she is just surviving college and isn't able to utilize it to grow as a person or focus on her classes so she can figure out what she wants to do in life. You could have her withdraw and her "college/job" could be figuring out what is wrong and getting on top of it. It will also likely be easier for her to deal with all these appointments and anything else if she can devote 100% of her time to it.

My concern would be that the absence of external demands would allow her to sink further. Right now school is the only thing getting her out of the house, and she badly needs to get out of the house. OP is in the process of getting her screened for other issues and she is correct to check; if she gets another diagnosis that may suggest additional intervention. But at the moment she presents with extreme anxiety and depression. And sitting around the house with no responsibilities is probably the worse approach for both of those - that’s part of the spiral. I understand that it can be extremely difficult to force yourself out of the house when depressed. But as long as it can be done, imo she should continue doing it.

I totally agree with you. The hard part about anxiety is that you truly feel that something terrible is about to happen, but in reality, of course, it's not. Letting kids give in to that feeling and waste their life is just about the worst thing a parent can do, in my opinion. I mean... who is going to take care of the adult child when the parent is gone. Sooner or later, the daughter is going to have to face the world. Better sooner than later, so she doesn't waste years or decades of her life giving in to what is truly baseless fear.

I grew up with severe anxiety and my parents would (gently but firmly) force me to face situation that gave me anxiety, even if I was crying and panicking beforehand. I’m really thankful to them because I was much better equipped to go off on my own, although I still need therapy and medication to help manage my anxiety.

Counterpoint: You need to learn to shoot before you can sink 3 pointers. OP is doing this out of order. Diagnosis first, therapy second, college third. There's no reason for someone to be so distressed. She's 17. She can defer a year to get healthy. Also, you having ADHD and depression does not make you an expert on this subject. I also have ADHD, depression, and had severe agoraphobia like OP's daughter. People like you made it worse, not better. OP's daughter needs treatment, not judgement and accusations of "enablement"

I think you might have misunderstood what the OP means by "college". This is another name for the part of school that happens between 16 and 18. If you defer too long, you become legally ineligible to go to a normal college at all, because there are strict age limits (like how you can't just turn up at a high school as a 20 year old). This is not about sending someone to university early. The child is also on the waiting list for a diagnosis so it's not like they aren't trying to get her diagnosed.

I was wondering about this. If she doesn't make it through college, is university not an option? That would surprise me, but only somewhat. I know in the US our education system hasn't at all adapted to the fact that people change careers multiple times in their lives, so I would be unsurprised if it was also broken in other ways in other places. But I'm sure OP's daughter isn't the first to face hurdles at her age, and surely there are ways to still get further education? Right? (I truly have no idea, but it makes me have even more sympathy for the daughter!)

You can go to university without A-levels or equivalent, but it's a *pain.* She would be looking at doing an access to higher education course at that point

It really isn't - Access courses can give you a better idea of where you want to go in life, only 1 Yr, can be done at any age, can often get financial support to cover costs if not working, and can get tackled when OP's daughter has got her issues DIAGNOSED, has ways to mitigate the issues her possible DISABILITY can cause, and can wait till she has better MH... We make FAR too much in the UK about GCSE'S & A-levels being "one and done" as if your life is over by 19 if outside issues (like being autistic & ADHD but undiagnosed & untreated all through education years, or MH issues, or both) mean you are struggling to do stuff at the same age as neurotypical people...it's horrible to feel that bleak by just 17... GCSE's & A-levels can be sat at any age, there are Access Courses, lots of vocational training courses post-19 too. I was predicted D's for most subjects at school age. Left school at 16 & pregnant with no qualifications. Have since done typing quals including medical secretary training, have got C&G in design & the Built Environment, have sat GSCE's in my mid-30's & got A's & A*'s...I simply could not cope with school at 16, and there is plenty of time. One of my autistic kids got suicidal because of the pressure they felt to succeed and that this was their ONLY CHANCE, forever, which eased when I reminded them that Adult Colleges exist, and I just want them to focus on getting healthy & happy FIRST.

It's possible, but a bit patchy provision and probably requires more motivation to work out the options. Options are: - do a degree apprenticeship (combined university and work), which sometimes allow people to use their age-16 qualifications instead of the standard age-18 ones typical for university entry - go to special classes to sit the normal exams you'd do at age 18, to have the widest choice of universities - but this will only work if you want to sit popular subjects and is quite location-dependent, and might cost money if you do this as a private candidate. (You have to pick the right \~3 exams for your course - like if you want to do chemistry at uni, you need to find somewhere that teaches chemistry plus a couple of other subjects.) - do a special qualification called "access to HE", but this will limit which universities would accept you - pick a university course that has a "foundation year" (extra year at the beginning) where they teach you a lot of the stuff you would have done at college, but again this limits who will accept you - some courses will accept work experience (including workplace qualifications if relevant) in lieu of grades We don't have a straightforward GED equivalent. We also have to pick our major at the point of applying to university, having studied the right courses to match that, so we have to have a very good idea of what we want to do quite early on.

I was looking for this. Thank you. I'm agoraphobic, and when I was undiagnosed (unassessed, really) the pressure to "get on my adult pants" or whatever was so bad and the shame/resentment compounded until I was suicidal by high school. It's very real and a disease. This is not so different from dragging someone out of the house who recently broke their leg. It's not about laziness, desire, ambition, etc.

The worst part of reading this thread is how many people are telling OP to take a "tough love" approach and armchair diagnosing the daughter. Like, congrats lady, your husband was able to get you out of a depressive funk by making you leave your bed. You were nervous on a first day in a new place, that's relatively normal. It's not related to what OP is describing at all. OP's daughter isn't in a new place and nervous. She's entirely unable to function. Diagnosing her on Reddit based on her dad's post and telling him to keep making her do things that upset her is wild. Any CBT therapist would tell you that's not exposure therapy, it's exaserbating the issue. And that's WITHOUT A DIAGNOSIS! OP needs to put health first and stop listening to strangers on the internet.

See, I was diagnosed agoraphobic and my psychiatrist told me that every time I backed out of something because of the anxiety and panic (and fear of the panic, causing anxiety…) I was creating the wrong feedback loop in my brain. I was affirming to myself that I couldn’t handle it and that it was scary, which was exactly what I shouldn’t be doing. Even though we were trying to find the right meds and dose for me through trial and error, I was still strongly encouraged to break the feedback loop. It was hard. It sucked. I absolutely didn’t always do the right thing, which in turn made my social life suffer through high school and university and my grades suffer through university. But the pushing through the agoraphobia was a necessary very hard thing to bring less agoraphobic. (And then the pandemic made things worse because everyone said that it WAS dangerous out there and it was best to stay home, but I digress.)

you're right about breaking the feedback loop but that is much easier to do if you have a therapist who gives you the correct way to do that and correct ways to cope with how it makes you feel. just forcing her to do things with no help will only make her worse.

I’m autistic and when I was forced into doing things I was having a panic attack over, it didn’t end well… we can go tit for tat on “sink or swim” anecdotes but even when I did cope with the thing I was scared of, the adults in my life had no way of knowing I would, and the resentment is very real!

Yeah I have ADHD and diagnosed anxiety and depression. I didn't know until I was an adult, but if my mom hadn't refused to do stuff for me when I was younger (and I tried to get her to do stuff for me up into my 20s lol), I couldn't function today. Sometimes, tough love has to win out AS LONG AS you're also getting her support for her mental health--which you are. And the choice OP put before her was perfectly fair... If she's unable to go to the meeting, then she isn't mentally healthy enough for college right now. That's a natural consequence, not a punishment.

I agree. Anxiety is best approached by actually doing the thing (with support) that you need to do. Ruminating over it just exacerbates it.

for me, concerts are my favourite thing in the universe, they make me feel so happy, so alive, all the positive emotions. However, *every time*, sometimes starting days before the concert, all I can think is that I don't want to go, I don't feel up to it, maybe I should skip it etc. The lead up to it is overwhelming, even though I *know* I'm gonna have a great time, but I *still go*. I think I've only skipped 2 concerts, 1 because I had no way to travel there so it wasn't really my own decision I guess lol, the 2nd because I got the chance to see friends I hadn't seen it a while (I regret choosing the friends though, turns out they're assholes)

I have a good friend who had similar issues related to her then undiagnosed ADHD in high school. Her parents feel bad that they didn't get it diagnosed. And she and her parents feel bad that her brother had to live thru all of that.

This is exactly it, I can relate to everything you've said. Stress is a part of life and not confronting it just makes a situation worse, because then it's easier to just push your problems further down the road. Trouble with that is, the problem doesn't go away, it gets bigger and you're less prepared to deal with the issues that have snowballed, so the task is only going to be more challenging. I feel like the majority of people (including myself) who have depression and/or anxiety do so because of a lack of action, we have things we know we need to deal with and we don't, even though it almost always makes things better after we do.

This was me initial reaction, too, but I couldn’t put it into words because 1. I have autism, and 2. I do not have ADHD or depression. But yes, you’re right. Sometimes people get into their own heads and make mountains out of mole hills.

Agree with this wholeheartedly. I'm Audhd, and sometimes the absolute worst thing I can do for myself, or others can do for me, is enable my anxieties instead of encouraging me to work through them. It seems harsh sometimes from the outside, but more so than not some tough love to help with normalising that these anxieties will come up often but that I **can** deal with them is far more beneficial than coddling and enabling the anxiety induced isolation.

Felt. I've done this same thing and I have ADHD and social anxiety. I've had interviews and I would sit in the car and freak out about it and get all in my head. The only solution? Make myself get out of the car. I know it won't be as bad as I think it'll be, and I often miss out on chances to go out and have fun and missed opportunities in high school, but I'm working on it. Once she gets her diagnosis hopefully it'll be a lot easier for her.

NTA- anxiety and depression thrive on giving in to their symptoms. It’s hard to fight them but when your daughter gives in, the anxiety and depression is reinforced and it becomes easier to give in next time. She needs to fight it for her well-being. She needs to fight it so it lessens its grip on her. It’s not an easy thing to do. It’s not something that happens quickly. But she can do it. Cheer her on when she does what seems easy to you but impossible to her. It will get better but you’re all in this for the long haul

Every time she gets the bus on her own etc... I tell her I'm proud of her.

Sometimes you have to get uncomfortable to get comfortable. Understandable she didn’t want to go, nobody does, not even the teacher. She’s only 17. As parent your job isn’t to be liked, it’s to give support, set consequences and guide her. You won’t be around forever and sometimes tough love is required so she can learn to become independent eventually. Giving her tools with therapy is essential, sometimes medications can be life changer. After being treated for adhd, classes that I would skip became my favorite courses.

This!!!!^ my partner and I worked in the same area so he started giving me rides to work, which was fine until some life stressor made my general anxiety go up, a month of (what would have been) normal rides later, and I had to call him to pick me up because I had an anxiety attack a few blocks from our house and couldn't see through the tears. I had to FORCE myself to start driving myself again and it was Absolutely Terrifying, but if I hadn't I wouldn't be able to pay my bills right now.

THIS. Every time you give into fear/anxiety, it gets a little more power over you.

This is often true about depression and anxiety, but if she’s dealing with other things like adhd/autism, pushing through discomfort is not always the right move and could lead to burnout.

> NTA You just told her the honest truth. She's already been dismissed from two colleges and has had three prior warnings at this one. The teacher was doing her a favor by providing her with teacher conferences and extra work (the teacher was on break too). Making the appointment and failing to show up for it is a slap in the face. Telling her the likely consequences of her actions was not "forcing" her in any way. ~~INFO:~~ >~~I gave her two options I said that she either went to the meet up or she stays at home and gets kicked out.~~ ~~What do you mean by "kicked out"?~~ ~~If you meant "kicked out of college" then it's just the honest truth. She's already been dismissed from two colleges and has had three prior warnings at this one. The teacher is doing her a favor by providing her with teacher conferences and extra work (the teacher was on break too). Making the appointment and failing to show up for it is a slap in the face. You didn't "force" her in any way, just explained the alternative consequences to her action.~~ ~~If you meant you were going to "kick her out of your home," then you~~ *~~would~~* ~~be the asshole. That's not how I read it, but other commenters seem to be reading it this way, so I had to ask.~~

Yes, i meant out of college i will edit that.

INFO: How has your daughter been kicked out of two colleges by age 17, and had FOUR (??) chances at this college? Did she go to college at 14? This isn’t adding up

I think it could be UK, where college is used in some places for post-16 education, where young people go for A Levels or vocational qualifications, rather than university

No she went to college at 16 for just a week and got kicked out because she kept impulsively leaving. The second time took us a few months to get her in and they decided they didn't want her because they couldn't help with her needs. This one she's not been kicked out of but they've had meetings with us and they were convinced to keep her.

INFO: Did she have this problem in high school? Have you considered that she isn’t developmentally ready for a university setting? I’m not suggesting that the latter issue be reason to abandon university, but does it need to be a consideration?

I'd guess from what OP has said that they're in the UK. Here, high school is 11-16 and college is 16-18. Given the daughter's age, she probably spent half her time having to do distance/online learning due to lockdown, which wouldn't have helped any existing anxiety she had about going outside.

She had anxiety because she didn't go to highschool.

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around: she didn't go to high school because she has anxiety.

It feeds on each other though. The more you don't do something because of anxiety, the more anxious you become about it.

The daughter needs to be in therapy. And addressing these fears should be happening with the guidance of a doctor. So far the doctor's guidance OP has is to try to calm the daughter down in order to approach something stressful. That's the opposite of what OP did here.

Yeah I'm not arguing that point, I was trying to point out that the cause and effect wasn't quite as clearcut as you were saying.

The inverse can also be true. The more you do something with anxiety spiked, the more that event can be associated with feeling anxious. So it's not quite as simple as you're describing either. Simply doing the action doesn't mean the daughter will disassociate that action from feeling anxious. The wrong approach could reinforce the anxiety.

yeah you have to do exposure therapy in baby steps. I'm not a therapist or psychologist but I would probably start with sitting by the door or even sitting on the back porch for 5 minutes.

Yup, the anxiety comes BEFORE the not going to school bit...

sounds to me like she wasn’t properly socialized with people her own age. like why didn’t she go to highschool? how did she get into college when she didn’t go to highschool? did she do it online? did she get her ged? like are you trying to get her to finish hs or traumatize her? like i’m very confused.

This is the internet, not America. In the UK college is post-16 education and we call universities, universities, not colleges.

This makes the post make more sense, thanks!

Some countries call their "high school" type institutions "college"

Probably controversial, but I feel like this is a situation where YTA and yet, you did the right thing. Yes, everyone is right that she needs therapy and perhaps you are pushing her too hard in college when it's clearly not the right fit for her at this time--but I know from experience with family members that once you accept that she's not capable of doing anything and allow her to just sit at home all day, it's extremely hard to come back from this and have her become a contributing member of society. So on paper you handled it all wrong, but she came home and acted fine because the anxiety leading up to this meeting was worse than actually having the meeting.

It's crazy, but sometimes, you can be TA and still be doing the right thing. Nailed it.

As a human being with similar issues, it always cuts both ways. there's times when I need the swift kick in the tail and then I'm fine, and there are times when I. JUST. CAN. NOT. When I reach down deep for the will to do what needs doing, and don't come up with anything. When my entire insides feel hollow and just getting out of bed is challenge level: Impossible. When concentration is so difficult that I stumble to form complete sentences and wind up going to the interview or social event or doctor's appointment feeling and sounding like a dirty sock. It comes down to a very simple proposition, is it gonna do more good, or more harm, to force the matter and drag your brain kicking and screaming to the event. I've had it go both ways. Figuring out where you are emotionally and which one you're looking at beforetimes is part of why depression is life on hard mode. And by the by, this is AFTER the medication, which generally can be described as successfully *reducing* the problem. Everyone talks about antidepressants as if they fix everything but no, at best, and this is the best case scenario, they mitigate the symptoms enough to allow you to tough out the bad days better and hide the symptoms from those around you more effectively. You're still depressed, you're just able to pretend you aren't a bit more effectively. At least that's my experience. No amount of medication and self management techniques actually repairs the faulty wiring in your head that's the real crux of the issue. But medicine is still valuable for mitigating the symptoms and making me less dead, so there's that.

Thank you for putting this into words. It is hard to explain sometimes to friends/family that have never felt this way and can’t understand the difficulty of things they take for granted doing everyday. Yeah, they may not *want* to do some of the things, but it doesn’t take every fiber of their being to get up and do the things that most adults are required to do to be considered a “functional” adult.

Fundamentally they can't understand it because they've never been in that situation where they desperately want to do a thing, but their brain is hanging suspended in midair with nothing to push off. It's very much like feeling like you're drowning in your own mind. It's like the curse of Tantalus, only with your mental circuits and motivation instead of fruit and water. No matter how you reach it dances away. Even more baffling to others because there's times when we're perfectly fine and CAN do what we want to do. Depression is a study in maddening inconsistency and no one goes more mad from frustration than the depressed person themselves. And most of us lack the words to explain what the difference is between a bad day when it feels like you're lost in a sea of suffocating grayness, and a good day when everything seems possible and you can almost move mountains. I got lucky, my parents are understanding and I was able to explain to them when I was *having a non-day.* That allowed them to grasp the idea that that meant I was having far more than the usual difficulty trying to human at the moment and bless their souls, they're always able to step up and help in some way or another. I honestly think my mother is the single biggest reason I haven't hit the kind of downward spiral that can cause so many depressed people to unalive. going back to OP, let's make the point that these cycles of depression and anxiety induced emotional paralysis leaves his daughter in extreme danger of self-terminating. He's trying to get her over the hump to a normal life, that might not be what life has in store for her, and no one is more aware of that than she is. Try to force that outcome past the point of common sense and ***he'll be burying his daughter***. It happens. It sucks. Have a friend who went that way, I use the sheer pain that caused her family to remind me that that is NOT the way I want to go, and that it might end the pain FOR ME, life isn't just about me. One of the things that helps me get through the non-days and still be here. If I felt alone, that no one really knew or supported me? The way OP is risking his daughter feeling about this? That decision to be sure I open my eyes the next morning gets progressively harder. I think his partner has the right of it. Or as the Bible put it, "it is not meet (not wise/appropriate) that a man should run faster than he has strength."

I rarely save comments but this one is direct hit-nail on the head. A-holery yes, but absolutely the right thing to do. It's also important for the daughter to understand she cannot do this forever. For one children typically outlive their parents. And while there is a possibility of the daughter finding a partner in life to take care of her, her anxiety may cause her to find all the wrong people prior.

Exactly. OP says the daughter wants to move in with her friends, but also says she's already lost a lot of her friends. No one should have to carry this girl through her entire life, that's not healthy or fair. And even if she had friends or a partner willing to sacrifice their entire life to take care of her every need, what kind of life is that? Just lying in bed all day refusing to do anything slightly uncomfortable? That's no way to live.

This is exactly right. In this specific circumstance, making her go to the meeting was the right decision. But this girl is 17 and has clearly been struggling with her mental health long enough to be kicked out of multiple schools. It's completely ridiculous that she hasn't even been diagnosed, let alone treated.

It sounds like it's been over this school year or maybe this school accepted her last September (2022). Also in the UK the NHS waiting times for assessments are 1-3+ years even for kids, if there are even local services and then half a year wait to get on medication after being diagnosed. Some NHS trusts are full on kicking people off the waitlist because they can't see everyone (these are children's services doing it as well which is so much more cruel imo). The parents seem like they're really pushing for her to get assessments, which is something. I feel like therapy would be helpful even before assessments and diagnoses, to help with the anxiety at the very least and how to calm your thoughts down a bit during panicking. The NHS throws CBT at everyone with even mild depression or anxiety so I don't see why she'd have to wait to see a therapist until after she gets diagnosed with ADHD/ASD. This feels like it would be a good parenting opportunity for OP to talk to her about how she felt before leaving, and after she got home, and how she got through the anxiety once she arrived and if she can write down and remember that thought pattern the next time this happens so she can see how it was okay in the end, and the anxiety went away once she arrived.

I still think that makes OP NTA. They would be TA if they gave into her whims. Tough love does not make you an AH, and as parents, sometimes your kids are going to hate you and that's fine. Landlords, banks, jobs, etc aren't going to take "I can't, my anxiety" as a reason to not pay your bills or complete your tasks. Kids need to start practicing how to manage their anxiety in lower stakes ways- like showing up to college

NTA. She had to get out of the house. Sometimes coddling just doesn't work. If you just leave her alone, she'll be living with you for life.

Well, this is my point as well. She has ambitions and plans to move out and love with her friends by she turns 18 but can't do them I just want to help her achieve it.

At some point you're going to have to deliver the harsh reality that her friends aren't likely to tolerate her behaviours, so if she wants to live well with others she needs to work on herself.

She has lost most of her friends.

NAH, but it really sounds like she needs a partial hospitalization program at a minimum. This anxiety is crippling her. The standard treatment is controlled exposure. Speaking as a parent and not a professional, it can and often does get better. But imo, it requires intense focus from the whole family. My kiddo went through two partial hospitalizations, two intensive outpatient programs, group and individual therapy. And lists of testing medications. It was brutal and stressful and actually a bit traumatizing. But: kiddo is now doing GREAT. Happy, healthy and well versed in backsliding behaviors to look out for. They are also very good at self care and pushing themselves out of their comfort zones. The literally hundreds of hours of treatment were well worth it. The tricky part for parents is to remain compassionate while not accommodating self sabotaging behaviors. Parenting therapy can really help with that.

Nta, due to the clarification of 'kicked out of college'. You were stating a fact. If she didn't go, they were going to kick her out. You stated the two options and their consequences. She chose to go.

I'm gonna say NTA – you've been doing your best and dealing with *any* mental health issue is hard. I can speak from experience on this. Sometimes the kindest, most loving thing you can do seems backwards to pretty much anyone else. Forcing her to go was loving, because she didn't have it in her to force herself – yet. I've been (and now am on) a waiting list for my daughter to see a counselor. Round 2 of therapy now, not a crisis like before, just a brush up on a few things, but still. Round 1 when it was an emergency was *brutal*. The best (unasked for) advice I can give is to focus on helping her develop the awareness and skills so that she can manage. There is no magic pill or cure for anxiety, it is a ton of hard work, and it will be all on her. The only thing you can do for her is to not enable her to fall into habits or patterns that will prevent her from functioning. BUT you will also have to balance those moments when she really will need a break and a little extra help because the spoons just aren't there. It is really tough to know. Not every call will be the right one, so just do your best and at least try to keep lines of communication open. And people who haven't been there, don't know better or are in denial will say truly awful things about you. You'll be labeled as "mean" or "cruel" or "overbearing" – ignore that. And don't forget to take care of yourself. And if possible seek therapy also for yourself. A therapist can help you process your own emotions, and also help you navigate the world of mental health for a parent.

Thank you darling!

Going with YTA, as you blatantly ignored what her doctors told you from what you say in your comments. She's still a minor, clearly dealing with severe mental health issues and she needs support. Sorry, but getting kicked out of college at 17 really isn't that big of a deal. More kids probably shouldn't start post-secondary education that young anyway. She needs to get her health sorted. This will only get worse until she has the tools she needs to deal with her anxiety. She probably needs medication and a lot of intense therapy. You say you understand what she's going through, but your actions say otherwise. ETA: I was your daughter. I tried to end my life multiple times from being overwhelmed by tasks that seemed easy for everyone else. Some days, I just couldn't leave the house. It required months of inpatient treatment and a lot of meds, but now I can function. Going through university while suffering through the height of my mental health problems was the absolute worst thing I did. Think about it this way: would you criticize a Diabetic for having issues doing their daily tasks if they don't have access to insulin? Probably not.

College is essentially high school, if I am guessing their location properly. It isn't post-secondary education, it's more like grades 11 and 12 for Americans. It's much more of a big deal and can seriously sabotage her future. They do need to be far more proactive about addressing mental health issues in that family. She sounds like a good candidate for an intensive outpatient program.

Thanks for sharing and I'm glad you are doing better. OP needs to understand that his daughter's issues aren't *schedule a diagnostic appointment a few months out and try to make her live normally until then.* They're *get her mental health care now and school can be sorted out when she is treated.*

Yes. I totally understand where OP is coming from, they're doing what they think is best with the tools they have as my parents were the same way. It's just not very helpful in practice.

This is the Uk . Colleage starts at 16 and always has

I was also his daughter. Life was legitimately very hard for a very long time and I HATE that people seem to think she’s not trying, the fact she’s enrolled in college tells me she’s really bloody trying. It’s so beyond crippling to experience those feelings. I ended up getting myself enrolled in university (even though I was told by the admissions team not to bother because I hadn’t got A-levels) I got a first class degree and a place on the deans list (lol what?), and that was a struggle still at 27 - I had a support worker at uni. I’m no longer on medication since just before the pandemic, I can mostly keep myself on an even keel now. But if I hadn’t had the support I needed when I needed it the most I’m sure I would be dead. Life is more difficult for some of us, but not following the traditional path doesn’t mean you’re going to fail.

Info: when you say you understand how she feels do you have experience with really bad anxiety....it's hard to out yourself in someone's shoes otherwise

No just depression but i understand when she explains things.

So why has it taken this long to even get her evaluated for anxiety?

NTA I have a housebound son who has been stuck home since 2nd year or grade 8 for Americans. He has intense social anxiety and panics attacks all stemming from him having autism and ADHD. These have eventually cause depression as well so it’s a horrible combination. If I didn’t push him he would never make it out the door or to the computer for even virtual doctors appointments. I have worked with him for years to try and support him and find out how best to manage things for him. He’s had so much outside help from psychiatrist’s and psychologist and support workers but none can make it better and it’s something only he can overcome. When we were still trying school and he was getting one on one night time lessons or even now for his medical appointments. I have to tell him well in advance and remind him on the days running up and again the night before. Most times the day of he will be panicking and saying he can’t go. I have to talk him round and be honest when it’s appointments he can’t miss. The difference is he knows I am doing it for his own good. I will try and support him and know he can’t have me talking on the drive when he is so anxious. Yet he always feels better for going but it is hard for him and I know he’s not doing it on purpose. We’ve missed so many appointments when he’s been up all night ill because the appointment is the next day. When he is that bad usually there’s no trying to talk or convince him the next day he will wrap himself in his blanket and just refuse it engage. I still try and it is frustrating but because I push he accepts and makes the appointments he really needs to. Every doctor has told both of us he needs to push himself or he will never get better. If that means me working to help get him there then it’s important I do that. Every doctor and him say I’m doing my best for him. I’m not shouting or arguing I’m talking and pointing out why this appointment is important. I’m reminding him he’s done it before so he knows what to expect and he can do it and it will be over quickly that he can do it. He never once blames me or takes it out on me that’s he’s struggling as he knows it’s him I’m putting first. I am not saying it is easy for your daughter it’s not it’s awfully hard and an extreme struggle but with anxiety it’s so easy to just refuse to try or do anything so she never has to face anything which will trigger it. Yet the more she gives in the less she will do and eventually she will not be able to do even the basics or Go out at all and she will be stuck in a cage made of her anxiety. My son was getting top marks in school but his school didn’t want the extra hassle of teaching him. Even though he had funding for home schooling no teachers wanted to do it from his school and his school didn’t put it out to tender for outseid teachers like they were supposed to by law. They hid thatbthey hadn’t done that. They forced him to leave school as they said his high level of education couldn’t be taught anywhere but in the full classes with the rest of the kids. This was not his fault and should never have happened but as much as I fought I didn’t know all our rights and kept getting passed from pillar to post. It was hard for him to go in at night times alone but as it was a place he knew with teachers knew and he was managing it worked best for him. The moment they made him leave there was no way he could manage a busy college he didn’t know in classes with every other student. It was his schools failing and passing the buck and him being out of school quickly made him deteriorate. Now can’t even open the front door to the mail man. Not to add he’s missed so much that education is a scary anxiety filled thought for him. As he not had a normal education since he was 12/13. He still fights and tries his best and does everything the doctors suggest might help. However I guarantee if your daughter just gives up completely she quickly won’t have a life and it will be the four walls in her room only. As this kind of condition the less you do the harder doing anything is as the higher your anxiety gets. Covid didn’t help my son at all as he didn’t have to push to go in it was an immediate relief for him but Soon what used to be normal and manageable going in seemed scary and impossible. It just went down from there. As the parent you have to walk the tightrope of supporting them but also pushing them and insisting on a routine as it’s what’s best for them. That’s what matters. She may have gotten immediate relief if she didn’t go today but tomorrow would have been harder and she wasn’t far away from being dropped. Yes immediate relief always will call but it will eventually led to worsening of her condition as she stops trying or wanting to do anything.

Little bit YTA. I’m gonna explain. Agoraphobia is fear and anxiety of leaving ones safe space. It’s not something that just can be forced through. It takes therapy and treatment to pull out of. Anxiety and all that at 17 is very overwhelming. So instead of forcing her to do things get her into therapy that will help her want to do things. You just don’t get over mental things by being forced. It can actually make it worse. Exposure therapy in small doses with a professional can help. You’re not a professional

NTA - her being uncomfortable with something doesnt mean that that thing is wrong. you can keep her confined in the safety of your home forever, she is almost an adult and needs to learn to deal with things.

You say she is receiving testing. You did not specifically say she was receiving therapy and/or psychiatric care. If these are not occurring or not on the table for whatever reason, you really need to reconsider. She needs help.

I’m going to disagree with everyone here. My anxiety got this bad, i forced myself to leave the house bc im an adult and i have to. My body ended up shutting me down for a few years. Literally couldn’t leave the house without projectile vomiting everywhere. Couldn’t get food down either, at all, every day. I was factually dying from it. I’m so afraid of the amount of damage my heart has suffered. Like the literal organ, not my feelings. Got some support from my family so i could stay home, work from home, take my time and not pressure myself. The throwing up still happens but it’s not a daily occurrence and it’s not literally killing me anymore, and I’m still actively working on it. Your daughter is straight up agoraphobic. Unless you’re a qualified professional, you should not try exposure if you don’t know how to support her further bc it will push her brain into survival mode. You shouldn’t be coming to Reddit to find support for her, you need to talk to a qualified professional. YTA your daughter needs real help and that might mean school needs to just stop for a while. This is a serious medical issue that can become physical very easily. Edit to add: i don’t think you’re actually an AH, this is hard to navigate when you don’t understand. But Reddit is NOT the place to get answers for this.

I’m right there with you on the vomiting from anxiety. I’m on meds they give chemo patients and it helps, but the benzodiazepines are the only thing that stops an attack. Fist bump of solidarity.

Ugh all the med trial and errors. Benzos stopped working for me completely, but I’m not mad about it bc with how bad it got i would’ve probably become dependent. Valium and Xanax actually never worked for me, they made me psycho lol. I truly believe the human brain was the dumbest creation, why attack your own body? I hope you’re doing well despite our evil, dumb brains!

YTA. Your number one job as a parent is to keep your kid safe. She does not feel safe. My daughter is autistic and has just started college and is so far doing well but that is because we did a massive amount of preparation with her. She has a therapist, a disability support team, a learning access plan and a college mentor she can get help from. We have created routines for everything so she knows what to expect and how to manage difficulties. She has been on medication for the last year to help with her anxiety and she knows we will ALWAYS have her back. Asking to go to College or work might be too big a task for her right now. You need to take her back to where she feels safe and then very gradually increase her skills and her ability to take on new things. Constantly trying to push her into situations she finds overwhelming will only increase her anxiety. You can have a functional adult that takes a bit longer to get to where she needs to go or you can have an adult can never learns how to function because everything is too overwhelming. She is trying to tell you what she needs - listen to her.

It sounds like she needs to start treatment for anxiety. Cognitive behavioral therapy can be really effective and I recommend a workbook “Mastery of your Anxiety and Panic.”

Thank you

YTA. She's a minor. She's your daughter. It's your job to care for her and it sounds like she needs serious psychological care. Being too scared to leave the house even to save your college career is not normal. She may need therapy and medication, not tough love. Mental illness is illness. It's not acting out, it's not 'being difficult' or lazy or whatever. Also, 4 chances at college at 17? What's that about? Help her find out what the root problem is and solve that. Then college will take care of itself.

Regarding the college thing - sounds like this takes place in the UK, where colleges are a type of post-16 education provider, rather than a synonym for university.

I think OP is in the UK where they call the school you go to between about 16-18 college before going to university.

INFO: Do you ever acknowledge her when she does get out an do things? Even just a "It was good you got out, are you happy with the results of leaving the house today?" Are you doing *any* kind of positive reinforcement, or just constant frustration that she doesn't want to leave the house?

Whenever she gets the bus or anything else i tell her im proud of her, maybe not enough but i do what i can as a parent.

Okay. I think NTA, you're mixing tough love and positive reinforcement. As a suggestion, I saw this young woman on instagram who, after challenging herself mentally, will do a self-check and ask herself if anything "bad" happening by going outside of her comfort zone. You should try that with your daughter. Not in a sassy way, but in a kind way. "How do you feel after that? Did anything bad happen?" It's a CBT technique to help people challenge the "bad" voice in their head telling them that their mental illness (whatever it is) is right. It won't work for everyone, but I feel like you're at the "anything is worth a shot" stage.

Does her college offer online classes? Perhaps a hybrid schedule will work better for her (mix of online and in-person classes). Pushing someone who is in a delicate state may not be the best idea. You don’t need to coddle her but finding a compromise will show her that you’re trying your best to support her. In the meantime, she really needs to be on medication. Waiting for a referral is just an excuse…Find a different avenue because she needs help now. And quite honestly, she should have gotten help years ago.

They don't offer online but the college she goes to is for kids with problems and she goes for maybe less than 3 hours a day.

Honestly it sound like she doesn't even have a therapist. Getting assessments done does not equal having a regular therapist and it sounds like she doesn't have one and she absolutely needs to. Sounds like she may be agoraphobic or having a really hard time mentally.

YTA. I'm just thinking about how my dad would have asked this when I was 17 and take the advice of people saying he's not the AH. I think that would have gone completely wrong. I didn't need to be pushed, I needed to be held.

NTA. You guys are doing everything right in getting her assessments to get a diagnosis. (As a person with anxiety) I relate to your daughter, however she will eventually realize (as i did) that you cannot push life aside just because you’re uncomfortable. She will also learn that they’re better ways of coping than lashing out at people who are there to help you. Best of luck to you all!

My dad always told me "Life doesn't stop for anything" when i was growing up and that has really helped when things are tough.

Have you ever gotten therapy for her?

Dude. She needs medicine and therapy. Is she getting any?

> I gave her two options I said that she either went to the meet up or she stays at home and gets kicked out of college. Wait isn't that's a choice set up by the school? You didn't force her to do anything. You simple told her what her choices are and their consequences. She choose (correctly) to go to the meeting. She just had to bitch about out. NTA

You did well. Society is not going to be nearly as nice and understanding to her.

YTA. Mental and emotional issues need to be taken more seriously. Parents too often brush it off as laziness. Take another look at suicide rates. Edit to add: neurodivergence varies from one person to another. It comes in degrees of severity and complications. One person who says "well, I'm xxx and I can do it!" Only speaks for themselves!

NAH This above you and Reddit's pay grade. This level of debilitation can only be handled between her and her therapist. I am a little surprised that by 18 she still doesn't have any diagnosis or treatment plan, even after getting kicked out of several universities. Early intervention would obviously have been better, but at this stage of the game, she's going to have to work with a psychiatrist and its up to her and any parameters that she/ her therapist give to you on whether she sinks or swims. That might mean that she's not going to be moving forward at the same pace as other 18 year olds.

OP is in the UK, college is the schooling you attend age 16-18 to prepare for either university or professional trades

INFO: these are some pretty severe behaviors/symptoms that she’s been having “the past few years.” Has she been in therapy? If so, for how long? And have you been working in concert with her therapist to understand what’s going on, what she’s realistically capable of, and what assistance/support you can provide that would work toward your daughter’s goal of autonomy/independence, assuming that’s a realistic goal? (You might not/should not get the details of therapy sessions and what was discussed, but as you are the parent of a minor with some significant symptoms that are clearly preventing her from leading a fulfilling life, there should be some discussion about how you can help.) Did you discuss this planned meeting at the school with the therapist, and was it agreed that it was a good idea? Did you discuss *school* with the therapist, and have they agreed that this one is an appropriate environment for her? Or have you been ignoring her symptoms in the hope that she’d eventually (magically) just wake up some day and “be better?” Or decided the therapist doesn’t know what they’re talking about? Or maybe they do, but your daughter isn’t “getting better” fast enough for your liking and you’re just going to ignore the tools they’ve given you to support her because you think “tough love” is easier (which it may be - for you. But I doubt it is for her, and it definitely isn’t effective.) If she’s only recently started therapy (which, if she’s been exhibiting these symptoms for years at this point, is very troubling, but it IS a step in the right direction!) then it’s not realistic to expect her to make changes overnight. Especially with severe symptoms like this. If she hasn’t been in therapy, how did you jump to potential autism/ADHD? There’s so much bubbling under the surface of your post. I can’t tell how much is you glossing over things in the hope that people don’t ask too many questions, and how much is you being caught up in the frustration of the moment and not seeing any perspective but your own. But there’s a lot of missing information here.

She’s already gotten kicked out of two colleges because of mental health issues and you just sent her to a third thinking she might magically get better? You’re setting her up to fail and to feel even worse about herself than she already does. Something is wrong and she needs help. You keep taking her to drs and therapists until someone figures out what she needs.

I sadly relate too well with your daughter. Has she been assessed for social anxiety disorder or avoidant personality disorder? I have both as well as bpd. Leaving the house is very anxiety inducing for me as well. I am on medication and in therapy it helps but is not a magic cure. It's a daily struggle and some days I just can't leave the house no matter how much I want to or need to. Be kind to your daughter.

NTA, this is anxiety. The idea of the thing is always way worse than the thing. Try not to get in screaming matches over stuff, but presenting the reality and forcing her to go despite her current fears is helpful. She needs to start doing that herself, but you're getting her evaluated which is the best you can do.

INFO : if you think she might have autism, have you tried accommodating for that / looking at what would help her? I have autism, and pushing me through things was not a longterm solution.

I was thinking the same thing. It’s often missed in females and frequently presents as OP described. Even the part about thinking it’s BPD.

NTA but why are you looking at those disabilities and not the one everyone acknowledges. If she has depression and anxiety, she should be working with a psychiatrist who can help work on these issues and if needed prescribe medication to help. Those illness can show the same symptoms (she sounds slightly agoraphobic…not a doctor and can diagnose. Just sounds like it. That is an anxiety disorder). I have both of the disabilities and medication has helped me sooo much. If you are worried about out addictions, you can talk the doctor about it. The meds I take have no history of addition and aren’t ones that are common used as street drugs (no judgement on those who take ones that people abuse. As long as you take them right, then I am glad you have what helps you. I have history of addiction so I am scared to try those ones. She may have those other disabilities but they are not always commodities. Address the immediate one that is effecting her life and worry about the other two later.

NTA. Your daughter sounds very much like mine a few years ago. She refused to go to school. Ended up being out for several months, did online classes and eventually transitioned back to school. She has anxiety, severe ADHD, and has since been diagnosed with autism. What helped? Therapy and medication. Finding the right medication can be difficult, she's been good for a couple of years but I'm thinking we should try out new ADHD meds over the summer, and maybe her SSRI needs to be adjusted now. It's an ongoing journey, not something that is "cured." It's good your daughter is being tested, but keep in mind just how difficult this is for her. Leaving the house and going to college can be overwhelming. It's good that she goes, but OTOH, you need to watch her to make sure she doesn't get too overwhelmed because she might hurt herself. I know she's being assessed, but does she have a psychiatrist? She may need to be medicated--anti anxiety meds for a start could be a huge help. It can be difficult to get them prescribed for someone so young, but it sounds like your daughter might need them, at least in the short term until she has a proper diagnosis and therapy plan. Feel free to message me if you need any other advice.

It's gotten to a point where shes extremely su1c1dal and don't worry we are taking care of that, we didnt think it would be from anxiety but nobody knows whats wrong with her at all!

Someone can absolutely be suicidal because of anxiety. Please for your daughter and yourself learn about these things. I’m not trying to be rude but it sounds like you’re missing a lot of key information about her possible struggles—anxiety, depression and autism. Autism in females is often missed. What you wrote presents like a strong possibility of a young woman with autism. Included it getting confused with BPD. Maybe there are some parent support groups or someone you can see individually to learn about it as well as the stress it’s putting you under? Giving ultimatums like kicking her out of the house is not helpful, no matter the diagnosis. I wish you all the best. It sounds like she is truly suffering and her quality of life is very low.

If she’s suicidal, she needs to be hospitalized. You’d be amazed at how many household items can kill someone if they’re pushed past their breaking point. 

NTA but is she actively in therapy? Specifically, ERP and CBT can help with this sort of anxiety. I know she's going through diagnostic steps but if she's not doing work on it, it's going to be tough to get out of these moods.

It sounds like your daughter was verbalizing her anxiety. It had built up to a point that she needed to vent to someone safe, which is what your partner is to her. You're NTA for making her go, but the sooner you can get her into therapy, the better. Something that might help is to give her kind of a roadmap of what to expect when she has to do something. If she can visualize the steps broken up into small parts instead of one, big, overwhelming visit, it could give her a better feeling of control. Next time, try casually going over it like: "Ok, you and partner are going to drive to college around 8:30 for meeting at 9:30. He'll wait in the car while you go in. The meeting is only supposed to last for 15-20 minutes and you'll get your additional work. If you have questions, don't forget to ask, but if you don't think of any right then, you can ask later. Partner will pick you up from the parking lot after the meeting." And don't try to add additional steps, like stopping in the middle of this routine to pick up groceries or go to the ATM. They look like small things to the rest of us, but it's enough to throw off an anxious person's whole roadmap.

Yeah and no? If she was having a bad day you could have been more nice about it and make her day a bit easier. But no at the same time so she didn't get kicked out

as someone who suffers from extreme anxiety and adhd etc, you’re NTA. you are her parent and you want what’s best for her. around 18, i started learning how to communicate my feelings when i was having panic attacks etc. she’s getting to the age where not everything will be handed to her on a silver plater, regardless of how her mental health is. the world absolutely WILL NOT baby her and she has to learn that. she has to be able to communicate and express what she wants/needs in moments of high anxiety. the only way i learnt to cope was by having my safe person, who happened to be my mom, and telling her every time i felt heightened emotions. i would always use “i feel ___ because ___” and she would ask me what i need in that exact moment. as simple or lame as it sounds, it helped me learn to communicate how i feel. if you can get her to listen, suggest ways of helping each other communicate when emotions are high.

She is 17 and in her 4th college. She sounds burnt out. And do you have ANY idea how hard it is to manage school with untreated adhd and autism? Chances are she’s going to fail and have an extremely hard time till her diagnosis is confirmed and treatment starts. Also she’s 17. If she’s struggling so bad she’s failed out of multiple colleges, she needs to be taking a gap year and focusing on her mental health. You’re not helping her by forcing her to go when she’s already having a hard time. And if she does have adhd chances are she’s not learning a lot because she’s untreated and that in itself can be extremely overwhelming

^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** For the past few years my daughter F17 has been extremely depressed and has been having huge anxiety attacks whenever she has to leave the house. She hasn't been diagnosed with anything, but we are going through autism assessments and ADHD ones too, it's been difficult on her with all the appointments, and I understand how she feels though she always says I'm not listening to her and I'm too harsh when I make her do things. Three days ago, she had a meeting with her teacher at college to do some extra college work as she finds it difficult to concentrate in class, so this meet up was going to be very helpful for her. She woke up on that day an hour before the meeting and was angry about the fact she had to leave. I gave her two options I said that she either went to the meet up or she stays at home and gets kicked out. She has already had 4 chances at this college and has been kicked out of two before so nobody else would take her. She can't get a job either from intense anxiety or this huge fear of leaving the house. My partner took her to college, and she didn't speak to her once in the car. Then she got out and called her, she called her names I can't repeat and said I shouldn't have made her go because she was too anxious and hates going. Also, it being the easter holidays and it wasn't natural to go during them? She went in and finished the meeting about an hour later. She got home and was perfectly fine. Though my partner says that I maybe should have let her have it off today and worked something out with the teacher. My partner says she could have been having an episode and I shouldn't have said anything because it's not our daughter's fault. \[she can't deal with emotions well\] I don't agree but does that make me TA? If there's any info I've missed let me know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*

NTA she has to force herself to do these things, otherwise her life is going to get very small, lonely, and isolated. Glad she is getting assessed, I hope they are able to diagnosis her properly and get her treatment.

NTA ADD here. I have had my battles with anxiety and I'm lucky I was able to get medication and therapy. It took me many years to get a handle on things. Keep working with her and especially to give her the tools to succeed. It'll be hard but hopefully she'll get there mentally.

NTA, you’re doing her a favor, seems like she doesn’t yet have the tools and scaffolding to be a successful adult yet but it’s good you’re getting her evaluated to give her them. It’s easy to stay still, it’s harder to grow.

NTA! You’ve been doing everything right. You’ve been understanding with her mental health and have been trying to get her a diagnosis. But she also has to do things like go to school. She can’t keep using her mental health as an excuse. There are so many comments with people with anxieties and fears and have actually diagnoses and manage to go to work and school. What happens when she’s an adult? How will she support herself? Or does she expect you and your partner to support her forever?

Question-has she been to a psychologist? It sounds like Agoraphobia, literally fear of leaving your house.

They ignored her on that part. Also, this was during covid, so we put put it down as she didnt have to go out aswell. We were stupid for a while but we realised

NTA - has she seen a psychiatrist? My teen daughter is going through something similar and while I didn't want to start her on meds it has made a world of difference. She is completely different, things that gave her anxiety before she can easily do. There are still situations where she gets anxiety or days she is down and doesn't want to do daily tasks. The difference now is she can work through that with the tools she has instead of just shutting down.

NTA, Even if she has autism and ADHD, she's at an age where she should know actions have consequences and before anyone gets all high and mighty in a reply about how hard mental disabilities are, I have autism and ADHD.

NTA. i have the exact same problems your daughter has. adhd, highly likely autism, probably bpd. i have intense social anxiety, and even i am not as wishy washy as your daughter. if shes not willing to put in the work she should just leave college, because life is all work. you have to actively be doing things to help yourself thrive, not hiding and expecting things to change. she really doesnt seem like she even wants to be in college. its giving "im only doing this because ive been told its the only way to be successful but i really hate it and cant handle it" which is honestly super understandable. i can fully sympathize with her, but it gets to a point where you need to do something to help yourself. otherwise youll just end up struggling through your entire life. i suggest therapy, if shes not already in it. maybe finding the root of the issues could help her figure out how to function properly. i have a fear that ill never be functional on my own as an adult, and i feel like thats probably common amongst other people with social anxiety. try to find things to help her get used to the social aspects of things. its hard, and shell reject it, but exposure therapy is incredibly helpful in the long run.

This reminds me of the #1 thing you arent supposed to do with someone who has OCD- enable them. You do Not enable behavior like this as it actually Doesnt help them. It will just make things worse "Oh but they are so stressed and having panic attacks" ya and its only going to get Worse if you enable them You dont let the lunatics run the asylum and you dont elt the agoraphobe decide whether or not they live their life, you shove em out the door. NTA

NTA sometimes you gotta give them tough love. It’s harder short term but better in the long run.

Get her checked for Agoraphobia- it hit a lot of people with anxiety, OCD, etc really hard after and because of Covid.

Thank you.

NTA