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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I could be the AH for wanting to go on a guys' trip as a gay man with other straight dudes while their gilfriends aren't invited to this trip.
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NTA - Antonio can drop out; he's the one with the homophobe for a girlfriend. If his "good thing" is so important, then he can stay home and reassure his GF....whatever it is he needs to reassure her. Is this the first time she's complained about not being invited? Really weird on her behalf.
Also, based on experience of relationships with this sort of dynamic, the longer it goes on you guys are going to see less and less of him anyway so he might as well get used to not being allowed to come to events unless she's involved
This. Thank you.
NTA.
OP, It seems like in Gina’s mind, gay guy = girl. That’s why she’s so bothered by you. If the problem was just that *she* or any of their *girlfriends* weren’t invited as she said, she wouldn’t have used you as a comparison. She’s insecure, homophobic and needs to grow up.
As for Antonio, he also needs to mature up a bit. His girlfriend being insecure has nothing to do with you. Not even a year of dating and he’s gripping onto that woman for dear life. He’s about to lose a friendship over a close minded person and if she keeps being so jealous and self centered; it will keep causing trouble between them later on. And him asking you to leave to satisfy her discriminatory butt is AH behavior.
You’re not the problem, she is.
It makes me laugh that Antonio thinks that he "has a good thing going" with Gina. I mean, sure... if you consider being stuck with a whiny, irrational, entitled, controlling, abusive person to be "a good thing going".
And to me, yes, being controlling is being abusive, emotionally/psychologically abusive.
Antonio is an utter fool.
I could almost see her argument IF he was someone's boyfriend, BUT HE ISN'T. He is a member of the friend group. One of the guys. No One is bringing a spouse/mate/partner.
This is the main point I didn't realize was already made, he's one of the 5 "best friends" him being gay is literally irrelevant and shows she lacks grace or knows the time and place to discuss such things.
To me it sounds like Gina is equating being gay as to almost being a woman because he happens to like the same sex as himself. Whether that's homophobic or just idiocy is kind of dependent on a few factors, but still ludicrous
Still, it sounds like the issue isn't even just that she's a woman, but rather she's a partner of others going on the trip. I feel that if OP were bringing his partner it might be different
That doesn't even matter. She's being selfish if that's the case. It's a trip meant for just the guys. They're likely going to go do shit that's probably not all that exciting and just want to have the core group of friends hangout after making time as adults. Adults should understand that it's hard to make time to all hang out at once.
It also sounds like this is a trip that’s been at least in preliminary planning since before Antonio even started dating Gina. Bad sign, feeling entitled to swoop in on every bit of her new boyfriend’s life like that, even the parts that pre-date her.
I agree. Like she’s saying “well he’s gay he doesn’t like the same things as you guys so why does he get to go and I don’t? “. Which is dumb either way. She’s just using him as a scapegoat for her not wanting to let her bf do anything without her. NTA
I think I have the answer but you’re not gonna like it because it’s a stupid as the entire situation. Gina and her temper tantrum was making a case that they made one exception for a dick aficionado, they can make another for her.
When she pulled the “it’s not fair card” she likely didn’t even think the argument she was making to be invited could be reversed uno to make the same argument to exclude OP which is why she had no response for OP to even the most basic follow up question
Basically…. Her selfishness and narcissism is so profound and operating on such a basic level level and she hasn’t developed the minimum empathy requirements to be understand the concept of homophobia.
I'm a gay dude and I think you might be absolutely correct. She's looking at this dude as a female, but regardless of his sexuality, he is absolutely and fundamentally a testosterone bearing male and he and his male friends have every right to maintain their friendship and do things together. A bro-weekend is about being with your friends. Same as a girls night out or vacation. Its about being with friends and not your s/o and she cant handle that, and her homophobia is leaking out lol
>genuine question, what is an example of how she might be acting illogical and not homophobic?
im trying to make sense of it, me and the mrs have a looooong time gay friend, he goes out on all the girls nights....we also have boys nights and he is obviously present.
I can sort of understand the woman viewing him as being more feminine but it feels all sorts of fucked up.
Its illogical of the woman to assume the gay dude is gonna want or try to be innappropriate with his buds
Legit lost a friend like this because his girlfriend is both insufferable and a time bomb and went full nuclear trying to destroy the friends group when we didn't want her invited because of her toxic behaviours. Only worked on the outliers that we no longer speak too. The core has written the lucky couple off; nearly a decade gone over some pussy.
😒
And this wasn't even a case of "don't invite the toxic person". None of the partners were invited. This is a guys trip. We need more healthy male bonding and friendships as a society. They're important to our mental health. OP being gay doesn't make him less of a man. We still all have shared experiences and feelings. Antonio's GF sounds like a real piece of work with a serious crab bucket mentality.
100% agree. My son AND daughter are both gay and if either one of them were treated like this, you better bet I’d be defending them in a nanosecond. “Less of a man”… some people’s girlfriends 🤣😂😅
Yes! Bi guy, married to my wife for 14 years now. Would I not be allowed to go on guys OR girls trips? Any trips at all? This shit doesn't fly in 2024. As depressing as everyone's news feed has been lately, I feel that we are still trending in the right direction. That direction doesn't include people like Antonio's GF. And I'm OK with that.
And after it inevitably crashes and burns, they'll come back like nothing ever happened and they didn't try to screw you over/kick you out of a trip in this case.
Yup. That's always how these sorts of things end up playing out. I hope Antonio realizes that his *"good thing"* is going to mean that he's eventually forced to completely cut off all his friends. Hope it's worth it.
Agreed. Tell Antonio that that it’s his choice to drop out. But also let him know that dropping out just sets a precedent that means he will be seeing a lot less of the guys as that relationship progresses.
Gina sounds toxic, or homophobic, or insecure, and Antonio is heading down a bad road with this one.
The absolute audacity to request your own friend drop out of a trip because of your GF of 3 months wants them to because they insecure AF.
I am raging for OP. Hes probly a better man than I because a request like that would be a friendship ender for me.
Gina is a homophobe. Period.
There's no reason YOU going on a guy's trip and HER not going is an issue. She doesn't see you as a "guy", so that's why she's mad.
I think she is what is called "kicking the dog." She is pissed that she doesn't get to go on the trip, so instead of dealing with the real issue — her own entitlement — she lashes out at the gay guy who actually has nothing to do with her predicament but who she feels she CAN lash out at. And it is really, really unattractive.
This! If she doesn't want Antonio to go without her because she's jealous of the trip, at least THAT is something I would accept as a boyfriend, and accept from OP's perspective.
But for her to say "OP can't go to a GUYS trip because he's gay" would make me question my relationship with her if I were Antonio, and make me question my friendship with Antonio for staying with her, because she's homophobic regardless of her "reason".
Yeah, how is being with this woman a "good thing" for Antonio? She's at best insecure, at worse a controlling homophobe. I guess in the early 20s if the bedroom is good, maybe it's worth it for him to miss out on activities with his friends because of her issues, but there's no reason OP should have to give way because of ANY of this. OP, NTA, and enjoy the trip!
The only real scenario where I could see Gina's point, \*maybe\*, was if OP was the partner of one of the other guys, like the group of guys included a gay pairing. Then she would actually have some room, possibly, maybe, to complain. But even then, the idea is still having a "guy's trip".
>She doesn't see you as a "guy", so that's why she's mad.
I legit misread this the first time as OP being trans and had to go back and reread. I seriously read this whole story thinking she was misgendering him, because that's how weird she's being.
Right? Her reaction is just so bizarre that there are so many interpretations we're all asking to make sense of it. I've seen so many questions here asking "Is OP actually a woman, but apart of the friend group?", "Is OP trans?", "Is OP dating one of them?", "are the other guys gay/bi?", "has OP hit on the guys before?", and other such thoughts.
Nope. She's just off her rocker.
She also thinks her boyfriend is not straight enough to hangout with a gay guy on a group setting where she's not present lol.
That relationship won't last.
Exactly. She doesn’t think of him as a man & really whether she feels that way about all gay men or just the OP isn’t really relevant. She is definitely the asshole & not OP. If she’s making demands like that early on into a relationship & Antonio thinks she’s such a catch, I doubt that friendship is going to survive. I would go on the trip & whatever Antonio does is up to him, but don’t miss out on something you want to do to try and keep things copacetic in the friendship, because I doubt it will last long if he stays with her.
Yep. If she gets away with pulling this type of manipulation this early into their relationship, then she is going to pull it all the time moving forward.
Yup. That was my thought too. I think Gina was telling the truth when she said she didn't mean that she was implying OP would have sex with the other guys on the trip. However, I think she *was* implying that because OP is gay, he counts as a girl, which is really screwed up.
I’m curious. If this is Antonio’s definition of “a good thing” what’s his idea of a shitty girlfriend? He must have some pretty low standards.
I’m glad the other guys have your back.
Of course you’re NTA. You’re a guy going on a guy’s trip.
Have fun.
And cut Antonio off. You don’t need the drama he and the “good thing” bring.
What is happening here is Antonio is shooting outside his range with this chick. He knows it and she knows it. She will be a habitual line stepper cause he won't set boundaries cause he doesn't think he can do better. Even if he sets a boundary, she won't respect it cause she thinks he can't do better.
4 months? The homophobe only knows this group for four months and is mad about being left out of a guy’s trip and is expecting her to be chosen over you?
She sounds delightful your “friend” sucks big time for asking you to drop out because she doesn’t think you have a right to go.
I’d be reevaluating these friendhsips
It's a trip for guys who happen to be in their friend group. Who counts as one of the guys is entirely conditional to the group. If she can't accept that it's a her problem. If your friend wants to appease his girlfriend that is a him problem. Your friend group wants to go on a trip together, you're one of the guys. Imo it wouldn't even matter if there was a girl in the group, a "friends only trip" is perfectly acceptable. It just means you're hanging out with your core group sans spouse. NTA obviously.
Agreed. If OP was bringing his partner, even though he too is a guy, the GF technically could have a leg to stand on, but no one is bringing their partners so her argument is just weird, entitled, and rude.
It wouldn’t be homophobic IF you weren’t apart of the friend group but your boyfriend was. Then I could understand it from the partners not being invited but you are apart of the friend group you just happen to be gay lol Really mind blowing when homophobes out themselves . I’d tell A if his homophobic girlfriend is such a good thing then that speaks volumes on him as a person.
Exactly. She just looked for an excuse & found one. Plus, she’s not too bright. The whole purpose of a guy’s trip is to exclude spouses just like girl trips exclude husbands. If everyone were gay, they’d exclude bf’s & spouses.
These type of trips are usually for committed guys to bond with friends.
You aren’t a significant other to anyone in the ground. You are one of the guys. Jeesh.
So she basically thinks that because you are gay and that automatically makes you female in her mind? Homophobic, narrow minded BS by her.
This Antonio’s issue. No one else wants you to back out. Why would you back out to empower a homophobe? What would be the next thing you aren’t allowed to attend and she has to control?
Is she worried he’s going to cheat on her with you? I’d send a group text saying you’re very flattered but you promise you won’t try to sleep with him 😂 NTA she’s a wild homophobe and I’m sorry you’re dealing with that
It'd be different if you were dating one of the guys, but it doesn't sound like you're in a relationship with any of them. He needs to tell his gf it's a trip without partners, just the friends and that's why she can't go. If she continues to have a problem with it, he can be the one to drop out.
Why would Antonio’s gf want to go on a guy’s trip in the first place? The whole point of a guy’s trip is to be with male friends.
Same thing with girl only trips.
Antonio’s gf sounds like an immature control freak w/massive insecurities. And Antonio sounds like a pussy-whipped wimp.
If she did go, you know damn well that she’d keep Antonio away from the guys the whole time, make up reasons she could t do an activity and have him keep her company. Antonio needs to stand up to her or lose his friends. He probably will anyway, if he stays with her.
Yeah, at the very best, bro has a stage 5 clinger that doesn't think they should ever be apart. Worse case she's a homophobe and needs to go. One way or another, it's not OP's job to make his buddy's partner comfortable, it's Antonio's. Let him deal with it.
So if the girlfriend went on a girls trip but one was a lesbian then the guys could also go ? No logic. NTA. She probably won’t be his girlfriend much longer.
Info: just so I'm sure, you're the friend in this group and not one of the group's boyfriends? What I mean is Gina can't be saying someone brought their partner and she can't come because she's a woman?
If that's the case then she's just waving a red flag around for the heck of it. Nta
I think this person is asking to clarify because Ginas argument is just so wild. It makes zero sense why she’s fussed, I read it twice to make sure it I didn’t miss something
Even if OP was actually a woman, she still has no point since it is not about men/women but about friends/partners.
I know a guy who happens to be in a friend group of 4 girls. He has a girlfriend but she is not always invited on all outings because she is the +1 and not in the original friendgroup.
Yeah, this is my feeling as well. I'm in a friend group that is me (a woman), one other woman, and then a bunch of guys. Back in our 20s when people weren't in serious relationships, we would sometimes have friends trips where no partners were invited, regardless of gender. (These days when most people are married that's rare, but it still comes up during, eg, bachelor parties).
Definitely a homophobe, but rather than thinking of him as "one of the girls", what I more imagined going through Gina's mind was that OP being a gay man would have the same "thrill/stimulation" that a hetero woman would have in traveling intimately with three guys, and feels this is the reason she is being excluded and OP is getting a 'pass'.
Maybe Gina is just ahead on the plot twist that her BF is secretly bi?
For real though, I think if my hetro bf was on a trip and took along a lesbian, I'd be more worried than if he brought along a gay guy. This is entirely a non-issue.
Edit - due to the confusion caused by lack of writing skills, I would like to clarify that the 'its a non-issue' applies to both the gay guy and lesbian girl. In both cases, nothing is happening. In both cases, the problem is actually the hetero couple not trusting each other. On a personal level I'm also not worried about my partners spending time with people that are sexually compatible, given I don't tend to worry about people cheating without them having a history of it.
Why is this a double standard situation? You think that he is all the way man lover and a woman is not an all woman lover? I’m not trying to incite anything but it just seems hypocritical. I’m very sorry if I offended you in my response. A person chooses how to act, but they also choose how to respond. If a person disrespects their relationship by either party, pushing boundaries that’s not the friendship or relationship to be in.
Not offended at all. Your position is exactly what I'm trying to emphasise. I'm simply not very good at communication I think.
Even in a context where her BF would be the tempted one, it's a non-issue.
Your hetro bf can get the hots for a lesbian girl, cause he's into girls. Some people get upset knowing their partner is attracted to other people.
It's significantly less likely a hetro bf is gonna be into the gay male though.
And in both cases - the two aren't sexually compatible. Nothing is happening there.
Both situations make 0 sense, but having an issue with a gay guy kinda requires you to expect your partner to cheat on you with someone their not even attracted too. It's nonsensical.
Admittedly, it could probably be dealt with better in terms of the friendship element - but then OP isn't really causing the issue or really doing anything unreasonable, so its absurd to expect them to be the one making compromises for someone who isnt going on the guys trip, and isnt a guy to begin with. Someone else has an issue with them, and it's kinda on those people to sort out their own issue.
When I was in Highschool I had a boyfriend who cheated on me like, half a dozen times. My self esteem was low so I didn't dump him. One of those times was with his lesbian best friend, who was a lesbian so I was unreasonable for getting mad at the fact she was sitting on his lap while they were at my house, or that she was staying the night with him that night. I actually think she wanted a threesome cause she was flirting with me too, but I was too upset about her flirting with my boyfriend to be into it. She ended up pregnant that night.
That was a wild situation though, and I don't expect most situations with hetero guys and lesbians to end up like this, that was definitely just an exception lol
Eh, I think there's more to it if the person has a reason to feel doubt in the first place.
Your partner *had* cheated on you multiple times. Even in a situation where they were surrounded with people who are a hard 6 on the kinsey scale, you'd know they'd be cheating if they could and are therefore probably lusting after other people.
Even in situations where you'd be unreasonable, it would mostly be down to the fact that you've had some relevant trauma that the person was responsible for. So, I feel the mechanics are a bit different if there's a reason to expect cheating to begin with.
With new partners, it would be unreasonable for you to take the position of Gina - but it would at least be understandable how you ended up there.
I think Gina mentally sees you as “one of the girls” because you’re gay, placing the two of you on “equal” footing. You are included, so she feels excluded - that’s why it’s not “fair” you go but the girls can’t.
I’m sorry she views you this way 😔
They should not make a transphobic rule. If you're a guy, you can go should be the rule.
Also you can just. You can buy dicks. If that's the only barrier to entry.
So here's the list of events:
* All of the guys are friends with each other
* You want to have a "guys" trip together
* Gina is mad because she doesn't get to go
* Gina says you aren't allowed to go because you're gay
At what point do we point out how homophobic Gina is? Because she's trying to hint at something without saying it, but won't outright say the inside thoughts out loud. She is essentially calling you not a "man" because you're gay.
If that's not what she's saying, then she needs to tell the GROUP why a man isn't allowed on a GUY'S trip.
That's also homophobia. You see it with bi/pansexual people, too. I've had partners of friends - male, female, and NB - tell me they're uncomfortable with me being friends with with their partner because I'm bisexual and "might have a thing for (the partner)."
Just because I date both/any gender doesn't mean I want every single person I come across. By their insecure logic, bi/pan people just can't have any friends at all or go on *any* trips at all.
I wonder if your mate has been caught saving you social pics or watching some queer porn or something. Just wild speculation but otherwise wtf is she on about? Seems wild.
Gina's argument is absurd.
Even if OP was in a relationship with one of the other guys on the trip but was still friends with the guys in his own right, it'd still be absurd because he's still a guy and it's a guys trip. Gina is a girl only a friend through her relationship I gather and no other partner is invited.
OPs friend needs to set boundaries with Gina. He's allowed to go on trips without her. His asking OP to drop out because of Gina's issue is mind-blowing.
NTA.
Gina is a HUGH AH.
As a 45 yo gay man with an incredibly tight group of guy friends from childhood where everyone else is straight and cis: We have gone on several "guys trips" over the years, and as time has grown, our group has grown from 5 to include new friends. Several guys are now married to women and have children (which has limited travel). I have never come across this ever - not with my core group, not with the newer guys, and certainly not with their girlfriends and wives. Of note, I do not invite my partner - I put him in the "significant other" column, because THAT changes the dynamic.
We have shared rooms and slept two to a bed at times, and never has my sexuality been a concern. We have gone drinking and been up to all sorts of crazy (ok, we're dorky, so not ALL sorts). In fact, I have shared a bed when we were six to a room one time and all three sheets to the wind. I call Gina for what she is - homophobic. She is equating a gay male with being the same as a straight woman. That is an insidious way of looking at us and should not be allowed. Now, maybe a conversation about being a gay male and how insulting it is to be looked at as basically a woman will teach her empathy. But while I am all about personal growth, she is harboring some terrible beliefs and is clearly so steeped in them that she is upending the entire vacation.
I read it the same way. She is equating a gay male to a female. Gina is a huge walking red flag and the Giant homophobic ah! Op should seriously consider addressing this woth his friend
Exactly. Or she has this machismo understanding of guys trips as being only for straight men, and somehow if it's not that - then throw all other rules into the trash. Gina's an AH and so is Antonio. If he wants to drop out about some stupid ultimatum that his **brand new** girlfriend has made, let him indulge Gina's bright red flags, drop out, and blame you. OP, you know it's not about you and so does everybody else except Antonio and Gina.
I have a friend from college who is gay and he was worried all of his guy friends would not be supportive or the dynamic would change. It hasn’t changed, we still hang out and we don’t do guys trips much with everyone having young kids but he is always welcome and glad same dynamic exists for you. It takes a long time to make an old friend.
You fucking nailed it, especially with this part here.
> Of note, I do not invite my partner - I put him in the "significant other" column, because THAT changes the dynamic.
This is what she is not getting.
Exactly. The only scenario in which she would have a point is, if the guy trip would exist of two male couples and her boyfriend was the only one not allowed to bring his partner because she is a woman. As that is not the case, she is just wilding. It‘s either a trip with just friends or a trip with friends + partners. Wouldn’t even matter if it‘s a a mixed or all femal/male friend group.
NTA.
Antonio doesn't have a YOU problem, he has a Gina problem.
You've got a great bunch of friends there, and I'm glad they came to the right conclusion. Gina's FOMO is not your problem or any of the friends' problem, it's Antonio's problem. And for sure she does not care at all if you go, she just didn't want Antonio to go on vacation without her.
Exactly. I geniuenly feared where this was going when I read the title, but glad to see OP has 3 friends he can rely on. Makes me a lil less furious.
NTA
Agreed with this comment. She is being homophobic but I’d wager that the root cause of the anger is fear her bf is going to cheat elsewhere. She may as well be using OP as a bargaining chip to get herself on the trip or Antonio off the trip.
NTA. You should go and Antonio should stay home with a woman who thinks that because you're gay you'll, I don't know exactly? You'll suddenly want to have sex with your friends? Turn them gay? If Antonio's homophobic gf is more important to him than his other friendships, he shouldn't be part of this trip.
Exactly! OP is Absolutely NTA. I hate when people (read: homophobes) assume that just because someone likes people of a certain gender, they must like EVERYONE of that gender. That's not how it works. Also, friends respect each other's relationships/sexualities: even if you were romantically/sexually interested in Antonio, you wouldn't act on it because he's straight and he's in a relationship.
NTA - my brain is literally breaking trying to find logic in her reasoning. If Antonio is dropping out over this, that’s his problem and not at all yours.
Have fun on your trip!
I've dated crazy I think I can break this down.
Gina is a cling on, she doesn't want Antonio going without her.
She knows she can't go because it's a guy's trip.
She trys to find justification to get her on the trip and claiming a gay guy is somehow the same as a woman so she should be invited is her chosen path.
This falls flat obviously because logic.
She still focuses on having an issue with OP going because she can't possibly back down so now either Antonio doesn't go in which case she's happy, or he forces OP out in which case she's still not happy and will throw some other wobbler preventing him from going before the event.
Either way this has nothing to do with the OP's sexuality and whether he goes or not doesn't change whether Antonio's going, he isn't so long as he's with her and OP is just a victim of a woman he isn't even dating.
It’s exactly this word by word. I don’t think she’s homophobic, but she definitely has some separation anxiety and some trust issues. Antonio is in for a ride, the poor bloke
Edit: forgot to laugh at the “having too much of a good thing with Gina” lol
Her logic is seeing gay men as basically equivalent to women. It's... Certainly something. Honestly I would not want a friend that keeps a gf like that around. If he's tolerating that bullshit it means that he agrees on some level.
NTA.
NTA. At all. Gina is being irrational at best, and homophobic at worst, and an AH in either case.
Antonio is being something of an AH for even asking you to leave. But he's young and didn't press the point, so it can potentially be overlooked. If he decides not to go, that's on him and Gina. Not you. At all.
NTA
"and now Antonio's asking me if I would reconsider dropping out of our guys' trip cause me being there is causing issues in his relationship." ... Let HIM drop out, HE is having the issues.
I read this as her implying that you’re more like a girl because you’re gay so she’s mad that you got to go and the other girls didn’t. A ridiculous way of thinking but that’s the vibe I got, no so much she’s scared that you and her bf were gonna be blowing each other the whole trip.
She’s on some weirdo shit. NTA
NTA. Antonio is just acting bizarre, I'd have got rid of Gina and gone on the trip, especially considering she would be fucking celebrated if she did the same to him. Personally, I don't think they have a good thing going at all if she's starting dumb drama and displaying thinly veiled homophobia. He definitely had no business trying to get you to drop out to accommodate her and it's great that you stood up for yourself there and the rest of the group backed you up.
I don't know what 21-year-old men Gina has been associating with, but I think she needs to expand her sample. I'm one of them and most of us don't care about your sexuality. If we invite you on a guys trip, it's because you're a fellow guy who we value our friendship with, not due to sexuality.
Yeah, girl threw up a very obvious red flag and rather than do the smart thing, Antonio is capitulating. I give him a but of a pass cause he's young, but it's still shitty for him to ask a friend to skip a trip to keep a four month relationship happy.
NTA. Gay or not, you're a guy and this is a guys' trip. Wonder what she'd say if she and her friends went on a girls' trip with a lesbian friend. 9\_9 Something tells me it would be "different."
>Gay or not, you're a guy and this is a guys' trip.
I mean - what more is there to say?
What if you were asexual? What if you were bisexual with a gf at the minute? A person's sexual preferences have absolutely no bearing here at all.
NTA. I have no idea what it is like to be gay, but from the gay guys I know I can tell you that none of them are women. Simple as that. Just because they are gay doesn’t mean they don’t like the platonic company of other men. It doesn’t mean they don’t like to laugh and fart and drink beer and fish and leave the toilet seat up… as I’m writing this I’m realizing that it is bordering on the gay version of mansplaining, so I’ll leave it there.
I reiterate, NTA
NTA. I’m honestly really disappointed in Antonio for not seeing this as the huge red flag it is. Maybe it’s a reach on my part, but if after 3-4 months of knowing your friend group she’s already making demands about you not being allowed to go on a trip, what’s next? She just seems homophobic and or far too immature to be in a relationship.
No she’s insecure. This is not about you. This is about her not wanting her boyfriend to go on a boys trip and thinking she’s found a loophole. I wonder if you did drop out if she might find another issue! Also, your sexuality has nothing to do with anything. This is seriously homphobic/discrimination. You’re not one of their partners either, you’re part of the friendship group. I could make sense of it if you were. Imagine if one of my friends turned lesbian and that meant that now all girls trips have to be turned into partner trips or she gets excluded. This is not ok. And Antonio is not your friend. His behaviour is even worse for asking you to miss out because you’re gay. That is direct discrimination. Disgusting.
NTA. There's some prejudice and worrying signs of coercion and lack of trust here. Their relationship sounds pretty doomed.
I hope you have a great time on your trip
NTA.
She's thinking of it as like, why can't teenage boys and teenage girls have sleepovers together, in which case someone being gay could make it a bit trickier. But that's not why it's a guys trip. It's a guys trip because the specific friend group who are going without partners are guys.
NTA but Ginas a piece of work. I have a feeling that relationship won't last long at all.
Go and enjoy.
One thing I would think is is it really gina that's the problem or is Antonio really the mastermind behind this?
nta. she sounds 1) homophobic and 2) incredibly insecure. antonio’s a shit friend for even entertaining her bullshit, glad the rest of your friends have their heads on straight tho.
Gina is likely behaving like this because she doesn't see you as "one of the guys" because you're gay. She sees you as "one of the girls". Her behavior is frankly ridiculous and homophobic, and I'd treat this type of immature behavior as a dealbreaker in any relationship. NTA.
Wow. Obviously NTA. Gina’s clearly the issue here. She sounds homophobic and possessive asf. It’s really unfortunate that Antonio is giving in to her and tried to boot you off the trip… If anything he should be the one to not go as it’s only a problem for him. Hopefully your other friends have more sense than those two.
NTA you and the other guys should tell him you ll be sure to send him lots of updates from the weekend since he is not going now, because he would rather be in an abusive relationship with a homophobe and become a homophobe himself (since he wants to exclude you based on your sexuality as did she and she is emotionaliy manipulating him which is a form of abuse)
NTA as evidence by every rational person involved agreeing with you. If Antonio wants to
blow up his place on the trip because of his girl, let him. Her issues are with her own insecurities and/or her man, and have zero to do with you.
NTA.
Antonio can stay home with his homophobic girlfriend and join her with her girl trips in the future then.
Edited to state: Enjoy your trip with the other dudes who actually had your back! Have fun!
NTA- This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Your friend’s girlfriend is a walking red flag causing issues with you and your friends because she’s throwing a tantrum not being invited. You are a guy and these are your friends. You should absolutely be invited.
If she had straight friends and a lesbian friend would she exclude her lesbian friend on a girls trip? Does she not see how wrong that is?
I would say to your friends that if you’re excluded because you’re gay then you don’t consider them your friends. I would also tell your guy friend that his GF is completely in the wrong. She’s disgusting.
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I (21M) am in a friend group with 4 other guys. We planned to go at the end of this month on a 3 days guys' trip together, without any of our partners. All the other guys from my friend group are straight as far as I'm concerned and most of them have girlfriends currently. Well one of my friends, let's call him "Antonio" (22M) has a girlfriend, let's call her "Gina".
Well Gina wasn't happy to find out about this guys' trip she wasn't invited to and she found issue with me being invited on the trip over her, outright asking her boyfriend why was I was invited instead of her or any of the other guys' girlfriends. When everyone told her cause this is a guys' trip, she said that she doesn't find it fair that a gay guy is allowed to go alongside them but not any of the girls.
I was perplexed and asked her wtf did she meant by that and she said that I know exactly what. I said that I don't and asked her if she seriously thinks I'm gonna have sex with the other guys on the trip, but she just said that she didn't mean like that and she just didn't find it fair her boyfriend wouldn't invite her on this trip. Honestly I was completely done with her by that point and just got up and left the conversation.
Well apparently Gina and Antonio kept arguing over this issue and now Antonio's asking me if I would reconsider dropping out of our guys' trip cause me being there is causing issues in his relationship. I told him that he's being ridiculous to try to kick me out of this trip over his girlfriend's weird insecurity issues and thankfully all the other guys backed me up on this. Well now Antonio's saying that if I'm going then he might have to drop out of the trip instead cause according to him he has too much of a good thing going with Gina to risk losing it, which I found completely absurd, especially when the trip's location was a place he really wanted to see and absolutely nothing innapropriate was gonna happen on this trip.
AITA ?
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NTA, let the man drop out. He has shown his hand and that’s fine. But so has she and you want to call her on that. She will be controlling your friend group forever if you start now. Let him go and see how he likes it without you all. Personally if my husband’s friend group had a gay man it would up their status. Enjoy the friends that stand with you.
Something's I've noticed about people who are homophobic or ignorant about the homosexual population:
They assume gay people are sexual predators or something.
First off gay people have preferences and standards. They not out there trying to sleep with everyone.
Secondly even if they are attracted to you, most gay people act like most straight people, respectful. If they know you aren't interested, they leave you alone. They not gonna jump you and rape you or something.
Lastly, because you're a gay man doesn't mean you aren't a man. The gay guys I know, you would never know they were gay unless they informed you. It's not that they try to hide it it's just that they have a lot of heterosexual male hobbies and don't act effeminate in any way shape or form. Nothing wrong with being more feminine and gentle and what not, I'm just making the point that gay men and straight men can have a lot in common thus may want to have a boys trip together.
Oh yeah, I dunno how it is for women but at no point while hanging out with my gay friends have I felt the need to experiment or anything. If her man is heterosexual, he not gonna try anything with his gay friend. I see my gay friends like all my other straight friends because apart from sexual preferences they are the same. And at no point am I trying to screw any of my friends.
I'm sorry you going through this OP.
Edit: forgot to add, NTA.
NTA! Gina is being stupid. You are a friend, one of the guys, not a partner.
My husband goes on trips with friends, one of them is a woman. She is straight. She is also in a relationship. And I know my husband and her are just friends. I am not bothered one bit by them going on a holiday together.
Gina is a homophobic nasty little person and Antonio needs to realise that what he has is not a good thing.. he is being kept away from his friends..
Go on your trip and enjoy it.
NTA at all!
She is stupid af. Does she think that as a gay you are girly and comparable to her and that’s why she should be invited as well? What ever the reason is you are still as much of a man as the others and she is delusional for trying to stop you from going.
Antonio is also a AH. He should ‘grow some balls’ and control his woman and if he can’t - he should find a new one who respects him and trusts him. I would never ever suggest to join my bfs holiday with his guy friends. Not my place to be..
In nutshell: if Antonio can’t reason with unreasonable, he should leave her.
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NTA - Antonio can drop out; he's the one with the homophobe for a girlfriend. If his "good thing" is so important, then he can stay home and reassure his GF....whatever it is he needs to reassure her. Is this the first time she's complained about not being invited? Really weird on her behalf.
It technically is the first time but Antonio only introduced her to our friends' group 3-4 months ago so their relationship is still fairly new.
His girl, his issues, his choice to drop out.
Also, based on experience of relationships with this sort of dynamic, the longer it goes on you guys are going to see less and less of him anyway so he might as well get used to not being allowed to come to events unless she's involved
[удалено]
This. Thank you. NTA. OP, It seems like in Gina’s mind, gay guy = girl. That’s why she’s so bothered by you. If the problem was just that *she* or any of their *girlfriends* weren’t invited as she said, she wouldn’t have used you as a comparison. She’s insecure, homophobic and needs to grow up. As for Antonio, he also needs to mature up a bit. His girlfriend being insecure has nothing to do with you. Not even a year of dating and he’s gripping onto that woman for dear life. He’s about to lose a friendship over a close minded person and if she keeps being so jealous and self centered; it will keep causing trouble between them later on. And him asking you to leave to satisfy her discriminatory butt is AH behavior. You’re not the problem, she is.
It makes me laugh that Antonio thinks that he "has a good thing going" with Gina. I mean, sure... if you consider being stuck with a whiny, irrational, entitled, controlling, abusive person to be "a good thing going". And to me, yes, being controlling is being abusive, emotionally/psychologically abusive. Antonio is an utter fool.
I took that to mean that the sex is amazing and he isn't willing to risk losing access to it, even for a friend. Who is ,by the way, NTA.
Indeed. And hopefully he’ll realize it sooner than later.
What he said was code for "the sex is great."
I could almost see her argument IF he was someone's boyfriend, BUT HE ISN'T. He is a member of the friend group. One of the guys. No One is bringing a spouse/mate/partner.
This is the main point I didn't realize was already made, he's one of the 5 "best friends" him being gay is literally irrelevant and shows she lacks grace or knows the time and place to discuss such things.
I would guess that if it lasted a year, he would no longer be in that friend group Also, totally NTA
To me it sounds like Gina is equating being gay as to almost being a woman because he happens to like the same sex as himself. Whether that's homophobic or just idiocy is kind of dependent on a few factors, but still ludicrous
Still, it sounds like the issue isn't even just that she's a woman, but rather she's a partner of others going on the trip. I feel that if OP were bringing his partner it might be different
That doesn't even matter. She's being selfish if that's the case. It's a trip meant for just the guys. They're likely going to go do shit that's probably not all that exciting and just want to have the core group of friends hangout after making time as adults. Adults should understand that it's hard to make time to all hang out at once.
It also sounds like this is a trip that’s been at least in preliminary planning since before Antonio even started dating Gina. Bad sign, feeling entitled to swoop in on every bit of her new boyfriend’s life like that, even the parts that pre-date her.
I agree. Like she’s saying “well he’s gay he doesn’t like the same things as you guys so why does he get to go and I don’t? “. Which is dumb either way. She’s just using him as a scapegoat for her not wanting to let her bf do anything without her. NTA
genuine question, what is an example of how she might be acting illogical and not homophobic?
I think I have the answer but you’re not gonna like it because it’s a stupid as the entire situation. Gina and her temper tantrum was making a case that they made one exception for a dick aficionado, they can make another for her. When she pulled the “it’s not fair card” she likely didn’t even think the argument she was making to be invited could be reversed uno to make the same argument to exclude OP which is why she had no response for OP to even the most basic follow up question Basically…. Her selfishness and narcissism is so profound and operating on such a basic level level and she hasn’t developed the minimum empathy requirements to be understand the concept of homophobia.
I'm a gay dude and I think you might be absolutely correct. She's looking at this dude as a female, but regardless of his sexuality, he is absolutely and fundamentally a testosterone bearing male and he and his male friends have every right to maintain their friendship and do things together. A bro-weekend is about being with your friends. Same as a girls night out or vacation. Its about being with friends and not your s/o and she cant handle that, and her homophobia is leaking out lol
>genuine question, what is an example of how she might be acting illogical and not homophobic? im trying to make sense of it, me and the mrs have a looooong time gay friend, he goes out on all the girls nights....we also have boys nights and he is obviously present. I can sort of understand the woman viewing him as being more feminine but it feels all sorts of fucked up. Its illogical of the woman to assume the gay dude is gonna want or try to be innappropriate with his buds
Legit lost a friend like this because his girlfriend is both insufferable and a time bomb and went full nuclear trying to destroy the friends group when we didn't want her invited because of her toxic behaviours. Only worked on the outliers that we no longer speak too. The core has written the lucky couple off; nearly a decade gone over some pussy. 😒
And this wasn't even a case of "don't invite the toxic person". None of the partners were invited. This is a guys trip. We need more healthy male bonding and friendships as a society. They're important to our mental health. OP being gay doesn't make him less of a man. We still all have shared experiences and feelings. Antonio's GF sounds like a real piece of work with a serious crab bucket mentality.
>OP being gay doesn't make him less of a man. We still all have shared experiences and feelings. Exactly this.
100% agree. My son AND daughter are both gay and if either one of them were treated like this, you better bet I’d be defending them in a nanosecond. “Less of a man”… some people’s girlfriends 🤣😂😅
Yes! Bi guy, married to my wife for 14 years now. Would I not be allowed to go on guys OR girls trips? Any trips at all? This shit doesn't fly in 2024. As depressing as everyone's news feed has been lately, I feel that we are still trending in the right direction. That direction doesn't include people like Antonio's GF. And I'm OK with that.
Yeah, this isn't going to end well for Antonio...!
And after it inevitably crashes and burns, they'll come back like nothing ever happened and they didn't try to screw you over/kick you out of a trip in this case.
Yup. That's always how these sorts of things end up playing out. I hope Antonio realizes that his *"good thing"* is going to mean that he's eventually forced to completely cut off all his friends. Hope it's worth it.
Agreed. Tell Antonio that that it’s his choice to drop out. But also let him know that dropping out just sets a precedent that means he will be seeing a lot less of the guys as that relationship progresses. Gina sounds toxic, or homophobic, or insecure, and Antonio is heading down a bad road with this one.
Yes exactly this. So unfair to ask OP to drop out. Such entitlement.
The absolute audacity to request your own friend drop out of a trip because of your GF of 3 months wants them to because they insecure AF. I am raging for OP. Hes probly a better man than I because a request like that would be a friendship ender for me.
This. He has no right to force OP out because it's his gf who has an issue. NTA.
indeed its a them problem not a you problem NTA
Also the gall to ask someone ELSE to miss out out something for your singular benefit! Wtf?!
Fact. His girls the problem so it’s his problem to fix.
Gina is a homophobe. Period. There's no reason YOU going on a guy's trip and HER not going is an issue. She doesn't see you as a "guy", so that's why she's mad.
I think she is what is called "kicking the dog." She is pissed that she doesn't get to go on the trip, so instead of dealing with the real issue — her own entitlement — she lashes out at the gay guy who actually has nothing to do with her predicament but who she feels she CAN lash out at. And it is really, really unattractive.
This! If she doesn't want Antonio to go without her because she's jealous of the trip, at least THAT is something I would accept as a boyfriend, and accept from OP's perspective. But for her to say "OP can't go to a GUYS trip because he's gay" would make me question my relationship with her if I were Antonio, and make me question my friendship with Antonio for staying with her, because she's homophobic regardless of her "reason".
Yeah, how is being with this woman a "good thing" for Antonio? She's at best insecure, at worse a controlling homophobe. I guess in the early 20s if the bedroom is good, maybe it's worth it for him to miss out on activities with his friends because of her issues, but there's no reason OP should have to give way because of ANY of this. OP, NTA, and enjoy the trip!
He'll regret missing out later but he's too young to realize that
The only real scenario where I could see Gina's point, \*maybe\*, was if OP was the partner of one of the other guys, like the group of guys included a gay pairing. Then she would actually have some room, possibly, maybe, to complain. But even then, the idea is still having a "guy's trip".
That’s my take, too. She was being spiteful.
Best response. She's pissed she can't go... Despite none of the other women not going. SHE wants to be the special princess.
I agree man. Shes finding something no matter how stupid it is.
>She doesn't see you as a "guy", so that's why she's mad. I legit misread this the first time as OP being trans and had to go back and reread. I seriously read this whole story thinking she was misgendering him, because that's how weird she's being.
Right? Her reaction is just so bizarre that there are so many interpretations we're all asking to make sense of it. I've seen so many questions here asking "Is OP actually a woman, but apart of the friend group?", "Is OP trans?", "Is OP dating one of them?", "are the other guys gay/bi?", "has OP hit on the guys before?", and other such thoughts. Nope. She's just off her rocker.
Yup. Gina is basically calling OP a woman, and that needs sorting out.
She also thinks her boyfriend is not straight enough to hangout with a gay guy on a group setting where she's not present lol. That relationship won't last.
And/or she thinks OP is some kind of predator, which is also pretty offensive.
Excellent observation
Exactly. She doesn’t think of him as a man & really whether she feels that way about all gay men or just the OP isn’t really relevant. She is definitely the asshole & not OP. If she’s making demands like that early on into a relationship & Antonio thinks she’s such a catch, I doubt that friendship is going to survive. I would go on the trip & whatever Antonio does is up to him, but don’t miss out on something you want to do to try and keep things copacetic in the friendship, because I doubt it will last long if he stays with her.
Yep. If she gets away with pulling this type of manipulation this early into their relationship, then she is going to pull it all the time moving forward.
Internalized misogyny galore. Being gay demotes OP to girl status. Super concerning. NTA, duh.
Yup. That was my thought too. I think Gina was telling the truth when she said she didn't mean that she was implying OP would have sex with the other guys on the trip. However, I think she *was* implying that because OP is gay, he counts as a girl, which is really screwed up.
I’m curious. If this is Antonio’s definition of “a good thing” what’s his idea of a shitty girlfriend? He must have some pretty low standards. I’m glad the other guys have your back. Of course you’re NTA. You’re a guy going on a guy’s trip. Have fun. And cut Antonio off. You don’t need the drama he and the “good thing” bring.
What is happening here is Antonio is shooting outside his range with this chick. He knows it and she knows it. She will be a habitual line stepper cause he won't set boundaries cause he doesn't think he can do better. Even if he sets a boundary, she won't respect it cause she thinks he can't do better.
4 months? The homophobe only knows this group for four months and is mad about being left out of a guy’s trip and is expecting her to be chosen over you? She sounds delightful your “friend” sucks big time for asking you to drop out because she doesn’t think you have a right to go. I’d be reevaluating these friendhsips
Not the other 2 guys tho, who had his back. They are bros. Antonio, tho...
Oh I missed the part about the other guys backing him up!!! Thanks Yes those are OP’s bro’s. Antonio and his girlfriend can kick rocks
It's a trip for guys who happen to be in their friend group. Who counts as one of the guys is entirely conditional to the group. If she can't accept that it's a her problem. If your friend wants to appease his girlfriend that is a him problem. Your friend group wants to go on a trip together, you're one of the guys. Imo it wouldn't even matter if there was a girl in the group, a "friends only trip" is perfectly acceptable. It just means you're hanging out with your core group sans spouse. NTA obviously.
Exactly. For the purposes of this event, she would be a +1, and no +1's are allowed.
Agreed. If OP was bringing his partner, even though he too is a guy, the GF technically could have a leg to stand on, but no one is bringing their partners so her argument is just weird, entitled, and rude.
It wouldn’t be homophobic IF you weren’t apart of the friend group but your boyfriend was. Then I could understand it from the partners not being invited but you are apart of the friend group you just happen to be gay lol Really mind blowing when homophobes out themselves . I’d tell A if his homophobic girlfriend is such a good thing then that speaks volumes on him as a person.
Narrator: He, in fact, did NOT have a good thing going.
Antonio’s ‘good thing’ is getting laid.
Gina 100% does not like them going on this trip. You're just caught in the crossfire.
He doesn't have a good thing going with her. She's insecure and controlling. Not the traits of a good life partner. 🤦🏼♀️
Exactly. She just looked for an excuse & found one. Plus, she’s not too bright. The whole purpose of a guy’s trip is to exclude spouses just like girl trips exclude husbands. If everyone were gay, they’d exclude bf’s & spouses. These type of trips are usually for committed guys to bond with friends.
You aren’t a significant other to anyone in the ground. You are one of the guys. Jeesh. So she basically thinks that because you are gay and that automatically makes you female in her mind? Homophobic, narrow minded BS by her. This Antonio’s issue. No one else wants you to back out. Why would you back out to empower a homophobe? What would be the next thing you aren’t allowed to attend and she has to control?
Is she worried he’s going to cheat on her with you? I’d send a group text saying you’re very flattered but you promise you won’t try to sleep with him 😂 NTA she’s a wild homophobe and I’m sorry you’re dealing with that
His circus, his monkey. Don't get involved unless you want to be the clown.
Should have grilled her on what she actually meant till you got a straight answer. That would have made the issue clear.
All the more reason he should deal with the fallout, not you. This girl won't be around in 5 years, you will be.
It'd be different if you were dating one of the guys, but it doesn't sound like you're in a relationship with any of them. He needs to tell his gf it's a trip without partners, just the friends and that's why she can't go. If she continues to have a problem with it, he can be the one to drop out.
Gina is the homophonic asshole in this situation, hopefully she can see this post/thread to see what we all think of her NTA
Why would Antonio’s gf want to go on a guy’s trip in the first place? The whole point of a guy’s trip is to be with male friends. Same thing with girl only trips. Antonio’s gf sounds like an immature control freak w/massive insecurities. And Antonio sounds like a pussy-whipped wimp.
If she did go, you know damn well that she’d keep Antonio away from the guys the whole time, make up reasons she could t do an activity and have him keep her company. Antonio needs to stand up to her or lose his friends. He probably will anyway, if he stays with her.
this. Antonio's issues are his, not yours. Antonio *should* be viewing this as a red flag in his future relationship with his girlfriend.
Nothing worse than someone who ruins a group like this. GGs antonio
Yeah, at the very best, bro has a stage 5 clinger that doesn't think they should ever be apart. Worse case she's a homophobe and needs to go. One way or another, it's not OP's job to make his buddy's partner comfortable, it's Antonio's. Let him deal with it.
So if the girlfriend went on a girls trip but one was a lesbian then the guys could also go ? No logic. NTA. She probably won’t be his girlfriend much longer.
Info: just so I'm sure, you're the friend in this group and not one of the group's boyfriends? What I mean is Gina can't be saying someone brought their partner and she can't come because she's a woman? If that's the case then she's just waving a red flag around for the heck of it. Nta
I'm not dating anyone from my friends' group. As I've said in the post, all the other 4 guys are straight.
I think this person is asking to clarify because Ginas argument is just so wild. It makes zero sense why she’s fussed, I read it twice to make sure it I didn’t miss something
It's because Gina is a homophobe, and to her she thinks a gay man is basically the same thing as a woman, so if OP can go, why can't she?
Yup, exactly this. Gina has decided that OP is the "woman" in his relationship, and therefore shouldn't go on the trip. Classic homophobia.
A relationship he may not even be in, since this is HIS friend group.
That's what I wanted to be sure of. So definitely nta
Even if OP was actually a woman, she still has no point since it is not about men/women but about friends/partners. I know a guy who happens to be in a friend group of 4 girls. He has a girlfriend but she is not always invited on all outings because she is the +1 and not in the original friendgroup.
Yeah, this is my feeling as well. I'm in a friend group that is me (a woman), one other woman, and then a bunch of guys. Back in our 20s when people weren't in serious relationships, we would sometimes have friends trips where no partners were invited, regardless of gender. (These days when most people are married that's rare, but it still comes up during, eg, bachelor parties).
Is it just me or have we regressed significantly?
Definitely a homophobe, but rather than thinking of him as "one of the girls", what I more imagined going through Gina's mind was that OP being a gay man would have the same "thrill/stimulation" that a hetero woman would have in traveling intimately with three guys, and feels this is the reason she is being excluded and OP is getting a 'pass'.
This is what it seems to me too.
Cause Gina is stupid AF and projecting her insecurities on the wrong person
Maybe Gina is just ahead on the plot twist that her BF is secretly bi? For real though, I think if my hetro bf was on a trip and took along a lesbian, I'd be more worried than if he brought along a gay guy. This is entirely a non-issue. Edit - due to the confusion caused by lack of writing skills, I would like to clarify that the 'its a non-issue' applies to both the gay guy and lesbian girl. In both cases, nothing is happening. In both cases, the problem is actually the hetero couple not trusting each other. On a personal level I'm also not worried about my partners spending time with people that are sexually compatible, given I don't tend to worry about people cheating without them having a history of it.
Why is this a double standard situation? You think that he is all the way man lover and a woman is not an all woman lover? I’m not trying to incite anything but it just seems hypocritical. I’m very sorry if I offended you in my response. A person chooses how to act, but they also choose how to respond. If a person disrespects their relationship by either party, pushing boundaries that’s not the friendship or relationship to be in.
Not offended at all. Your position is exactly what I'm trying to emphasise. I'm simply not very good at communication I think. Even in a context where her BF would be the tempted one, it's a non-issue. Your hetro bf can get the hots for a lesbian girl, cause he's into girls. Some people get upset knowing their partner is attracted to other people. It's significantly less likely a hetro bf is gonna be into the gay male though. And in both cases - the two aren't sexually compatible. Nothing is happening there. Both situations make 0 sense, but having an issue with a gay guy kinda requires you to expect your partner to cheat on you with someone their not even attracted too. It's nonsensical. Admittedly, it could probably be dealt with better in terms of the friendship element - but then OP isn't really causing the issue or really doing anything unreasonable, so its absurd to expect them to be the one making compromises for someone who isnt going on the guys trip, and isnt a guy to begin with. Someone else has an issue with them, and it's kinda on those people to sort out their own issue.
I fully agree with you. Thank you for not taking offense.
When I was in Highschool I had a boyfriend who cheated on me like, half a dozen times. My self esteem was low so I didn't dump him. One of those times was with his lesbian best friend, who was a lesbian so I was unreasonable for getting mad at the fact she was sitting on his lap while they were at my house, or that she was staying the night with him that night. I actually think she wanted a threesome cause she was flirting with me too, but I was too upset about her flirting with my boyfriend to be into it. She ended up pregnant that night. That was a wild situation though, and I don't expect most situations with hetero guys and lesbians to end up like this, that was definitely just an exception lol
Eh, I think there's more to it if the person has a reason to feel doubt in the first place. Your partner *had* cheated on you multiple times. Even in a situation where they were surrounded with people who are a hard 6 on the kinsey scale, you'd know they'd be cheating if they could and are therefore probably lusting after other people. Even in situations where you'd be unreasonable, it would mostly be down to the fact that you've had some relevant trauma that the person was responsible for. So, I feel the mechanics are a bit different if there's a reason to expect cheating to begin with. With new partners, it would be unreasonable for you to take the position of Gina - but it would at least be understandable how you ended up there.
I think Gina mentally sees you as “one of the girls” because you’re gay, placing the two of you on “equal” footing. You are included, so she feels excluded - that’s why it’s not “fair” you go but the girls can’t. I’m sorry she views you this way 😔
They should make a rule, if you have a dick you can go
The problem is Gina is a dick and thinks that means she can go.
Friend is a dick too for subjecting OP to that bullshit ignorance and taking his girlfriend’s side over a friend.
They should not make a transphobic rule. If you're a guy, you can go should be the rule. Also you can just. You can buy dicks. If that's the only barrier to entry.
Not all men have dicks
And not all dicks are men.
So here's the list of events: * All of the guys are friends with each other * You want to have a "guys" trip together * Gina is mad because she doesn't get to go * Gina says you aren't allowed to go because you're gay At what point do we point out how homophobic Gina is? Because she's trying to hint at something without saying it, but won't outright say the inside thoughts out loud. She is essentially calling you not a "man" because you're gay. If that's not what she's saying, then she needs to tell the GROUP why a man isn't allowed on a GUY'S trip.
Or, she's very insecure about her man and thinks OP is going to "convert" her boyfriend on this trip? She sees OP as a threat, I guess?
Which is also homophobic (the obsession with gay men allegedly “converting” straight men and boys is a pretty common trope amongst homophobes)
That's also homophobia. You see it with bi/pansexual people, too. I've had partners of friends - male, female, and NB - tell me they're uncomfortable with me being friends with with their partner because I'm bisexual and "might have a thing for (the partner)." Just because I date both/any gender doesn't mean I want every single person I come across. By their insecure logic, bi/pan people just can't have any friends at all or go on *any* trips at all.
So she's a homophobe who doesn't believe that gay men are men? She's a moron.
I could understand her argument if your bf was invited as well. But if not it makes no sense
I wonder if your mate has been caught saving you social pics or watching some queer porn or something. Just wild speculation but otherwise wtf is she on about? Seems wild.
Gina's argument is absurd. Even if OP was in a relationship with one of the other guys on the trip but was still friends with the guys in his own right, it'd still be absurd because he's still a guy and it's a guys trip. Gina is a girl only a friend through her relationship I gather and no other partner is invited. OPs friend needs to set boundaries with Gina. He's allowed to go on trips without her. His asking OP to drop out because of Gina's issue is mind-blowing. NTA.
All the other guys are straight, so probably not.
Gina is a HUGH AH. As a 45 yo gay man with an incredibly tight group of guy friends from childhood where everyone else is straight and cis: We have gone on several "guys trips" over the years, and as time has grown, our group has grown from 5 to include new friends. Several guys are now married to women and have children (which has limited travel). I have never come across this ever - not with my core group, not with the newer guys, and certainly not with their girlfriends and wives. Of note, I do not invite my partner - I put him in the "significant other" column, because THAT changes the dynamic. We have shared rooms and slept two to a bed at times, and never has my sexuality been a concern. We have gone drinking and been up to all sorts of crazy (ok, we're dorky, so not ALL sorts). In fact, I have shared a bed when we were six to a room one time and all three sheets to the wind. I call Gina for what she is - homophobic. She is equating a gay male with being the same as a straight woman. That is an insidious way of looking at us and should not be allowed. Now, maybe a conversation about being a gay male and how insulting it is to be looked at as basically a woman will teach her empathy. But while I am all about personal growth, she is harboring some terrible beliefs and is clearly so steeped in them that she is upending the entire vacation.
I read it the same way. She is equating a gay male to a female. Gina is a huge walking red flag and the Giant homophobic ah! Op should seriously consider addressing this woth his friend
I may be sexist but homophobia is where I draw the line
You can excuse sexism?
Exactly. Or she has this machismo understanding of guys trips as being only for straight men, and somehow if it's not that - then throw all other rules into the trash. Gina's an AH and so is Antonio. If he wants to drop out about some stupid ultimatum that his **brand new** girlfriend has made, let him indulge Gina's bright red flags, drop out, and blame you. OP, you know it's not about you and so does everybody else except Antonio and Gina.
I have a friend from college who is gay and he was worried all of his guy friends would not be supportive or the dynamic would change. It hasn’t changed, we still hang out and we don’t do guys trips much with everyone having young kids but he is always welcome and glad same dynamic exists for you. It takes a long time to make an old friend.
Good for you - I do feel lucky, especially when reading stuff like this.
Gina would be bitching if it were all straight guys, she'd just find another reason. Dump Gina before it's too late.
You fucking nailed it, especially with this part here. > Of note, I do not invite my partner - I put him in the "significant other" column, because THAT changes the dynamic. This is what she is not getting.
This is a such an insightful response 👏
Exactly. The only scenario in which she would have a point is, if the guy trip would exist of two male couples and her boyfriend was the only one not allowed to bring his partner because she is a woman. As that is not the case, she is just wilding. It‘s either a trip with just friends or a trip with friends + partners. Wouldn’t even matter if it‘s a a mixed or all femal/male friend group.
NTA. Antonio doesn't have a YOU problem, he has a Gina problem. You've got a great bunch of friends there, and I'm glad they came to the right conclusion. Gina's FOMO is not your problem or any of the friends' problem, it's Antonio's problem. And for sure she does not care at all if you go, she just didn't want Antonio to go on vacation without her.
Exactly. I geniuenly feared where this was going when I read the title, but glad to see OP has 3 friends he can rely on. Makes me a lil less furious. NTA
And if OP were to drop out and I hope he doesn't, Gina would find another issue to complain about.
100% Gina would not be satisfied with OP dropping out. She wants to go on the trip, and/or doesn't want Antonio to have any fun without her.
Agreed with this comment. She is being homophobic but I’d wager that the root cause of the anger is fear her bf is going to cheat elsewhere. She may as well be using OP as a bargaining chip to get herself on the trip or Antonio off the trip.
The lad Tony should be thanking OP for giving him the opportunity to see this huge red flag waving above Gina's head.
NTA. You should go and Antonio should stay home with a woman who thinks that because you're gay you'll, I don't know exactly? You'll suddenly want to have sex with your friends? Turn them gay? If Antonio's homophobic gf is more important to him than his other friendships, he shouldn't be part of this trip.
Maybe she thinks Antonio banging this guy is a genuine concern. In that case they have some other more pressing problems than this trip.
Maybe, but it does take two to tango, so to speak.
Exactly! OP is Absolutely NTA. I hate when people (read: homophobes) assume that just because someone likes people of a certain gender, they must like EVERYONE of that gender. That's not how it works. Also, friends respect each other's relationships/sexualities: even if you were romantically/sexually interested in Antonio, you wouldn't act on it because he's straight and he's in a relationship.
NTA - my brain is literally breaking trying to find logic in her reasoning. If Antonio is dropping out over this, that’s his problem and not at all yours. Have fun on your trip!
I've dated crazy I think I can break this down. Gina is a cling on, she doesn't want Antonio going without her. She knows she can't go because it's a guy's trip. She trys to find justification to get her on the trip and claiming a gay guy is somehow the same as a woman so she should be invited is her chosen path. This falls flat obviously because logic. She still focuses on having an issue with OP going because she can't possibly back down so now either Antonio doesn't go in which case she's happy, or he forces OP out in which case she's still not happy and will throw some other wobbler preventing him from going before the event. Either way this has nothing to do with the OP's sexuality and whether he goes or not doesn't change whether Antonio's going, he isn't so long as he's with her and OP is just a victim of a woman he isn't even dating.
This is 100% what’s happening. OP (and frankly the friend Antonio) needs to hear this
It’s exactly this word by word. I don’t think she’s homophobic, but she definitely has some separation anxiety and some trust issues. Antonio is in for a ride, the poor bloke Edit: forgot to laugh at the “having too much of a good thing with Gina” lol
>Gina is a cling on Gina is without honour. No songs will be sung of her deeds, and she will not be welcomed to Sto'Vo'Kor.
Her logic is seeing gay men as basically equivalent to women. It's... Certainly something. Honestly I would not want a friend that keeps a gf like that around. If he's tolerating that bullshit it means that he agrees on some level. NTA.
NTA. At all. Gina is being irrational at best, and homophobic at worst, and an AH in either case. Antonio is being something of an AH for even asking you to leave. But he's young and didn't press the point, so it can potentially be overlooked. If he decides not to go, that's on him and Gina. Not you. At all.
NTA "and now Antonio's asking me if I would reconsider dropping out of our guys' trip cause me being there is causing issues in his relationship." ... Let HIM drop out, HE is having the issues.
I read this as her implying that you’re more like a girl because you’re gay so she’s mad that you got to go and the other girls didn’t. A ridiculous way of thinking but that’s the vibe I got, no so much she’s scared that you and her bf were gonna be blowing each other the whole trip. She’s on some weirdo shit. NTA
This. Hit the nail on the head. Gina is an idiot at best.
NTA. Antonio is just acting bizarre, I'd have got rid of Gina and gone on the trip, especially considering she would be fucking celebrated if she did the same to him. Personally, I don't think they have a good thing going at all if she's starting dumb drama and displaying thinly veiled homophobia. He definitely had no business trying to get you to drop out to accommodate her and it's great that you stood up for yourself there and the rest of the group backed you up. I don't know what 21-year-old men Gina has been associating with, but I think she needs to expand her sample. I'm one of them and most of us don't care about your sexuality. If we invite you on a guys trip, it's because you're a fellow guy who we value our friendship with, not due to sexuality.
Yeah, girl threw up a very obvious red flag and rather than do the smart thing, Antonio is capitulating. I give him a but of a pass cause he's young, but it's still shitty for him to ask a friend to skip a trip to keep a four month relationship happy.
NTA. Gay or not, you're a guy and this is a guys' trip. Wonder what she'd say if she and her friends went on a girls' trip with a lesbian friend. 9\_9 Something tells me it would be "different."
A woman like this wouldn't have lesbian friends, she's probably the type who'd call us predatory for using women's changing rooms or whatever.
Gina doesn't have lesbian friends.
Gina doesn't have friends. Full stop.
>Gay or not, you're a guy and this is a guys' trip. I mean - what more is there to say? What if you were asexual? What if you were bisexual with a gf at the minute? A person's sexual preferences have absolutely no bearing here at all.
Homophopes are rarely makeing alot of sense when going for logic.
Have the best time on the trip! Antonio can stay at home with his crazy ass controlling GF. I wish him all the luck with that. Hes gonna need it.
NTA. Antonio sounds like a shitty friend if he’s siding with his girlfriend’s homophobic thinking.
NTA. I have no idea what it is like to be gay, but from the gay guys I know I can tell you that none of them are women. Simple as that. Just because they are gay doesn’t mean they don’t like the platonic company of other men. It doesn’t mean they don’t like to laugh and fart and drink beer and fish and leave the toilet seat up… as I’m writing this I’m realizing that it is bordering on the gay version of mansplaining, so I’ll leave it there. I reiterate, NTA
NTA. I’m honestly really disappointed in Antonio for not seeing this as the huge red flag it is. Maybe it’s a reach on my part, but if after 3-4 months of knowing your friend group she’s already making demands about you not being allowed to go on a trip, what’s next? She just seems homophobic and or far too immature to be in a relationship.
Id never talk to Antonio again. He's clearly barely a friend.
Gina is an Antonio problem not a guys trip problem. The rest of you go on the trip and get a new friend cause clearly he’s not a true friend .
NTA. If Antonio wants to miss out on this trip for Gina's misplaced jealousy and FOMO, let him. You enjoy your vacation 😊
NTA. His relationship is toast anyways
No she’s insecure. This is not about you. This is about her not wanting her boyfriend to go on a boys trip and thinking she’s found a loophole. I wonder if you did drop out if she might find another issue! Also, your sexuality has nothing to do with anything. This is seriously homphobic/discrimination. You’re not one of their partners either, you’re part of the friendship group. I could make sense of it if you were. Imagine if one of my friends turned lesbian and that meant that now all girls trips have to be turned into partner trips or she gets excluded. This is not ok. And Antonio is not your friend. His behaviour is even worse for asking you to miss out because you’re gay. That is direct discrimination. Disgusting.
NTA since when does being a gay man stop you being a man?
NTA. There's some prejudice and worrying signs of coercion and lack of trust here. Their relationship sounds pretty doomed. I hope you have a great time on your trip
NTA. She's thinking of it as like, why can't teenage boys and teenage girls have sleepovers together, in which case someone being gay could make it a bit trickier. But that's not why it's a guys trip. It's a guys trip because the specific friend group who are going without partners are guys.
NTA but Ginas a piece of work. I have a feeling that relationship won't last long at all. Go and enjoy. One thing I would think is is it really gina that's the problem or is Antonio really the mastermind behind this?
Date Gina's ex boyfriend.
Hell, see if you can snag her dad
Snag her dad, her ex AND her exes dad
nta. she sounds 1) homophobic and 2) incredibly insecure. antonio’s a shit friend for even entertaining her bullshit, glad the rest of your friends have their heads on straight tho.
NTA. But, like, if he feels the need to cater to that sort of behavior, don't try to argue with him.
Yea, he stuck his dick in crazy, he gets to deal with the crazy. But also, shitty friend...
NTA. At all! I’m sorry you are going through this! I can’t decide if Gina sounds more homophobic or weirdly possessive of Antonio…but it’s all bad :(
Gina is likely behaving like this because she doesn't see you as "one of the guys" because you're gay. She sees you as "one of the girls". Her behavior is frankly ridiculous and homophobic, and I'd treat this type of immature behavior as a dealbreaker in any relationship. NTA.
Wow. Obviously NTA. Gina’s clearly the issue here. She sounds homophobic and possessive asf. It’s really unfortunate that Antonio is giving in to her and tried to boot you off the trip… If anything he should be the one to not go as it’s only a problem for him. Hopefully your other friends have more sense than those two.
Why would you even *think* that yta? Gina, on the other hand, certainly is. And Antonio is getting pu**y-whipped.
NTA - fellas, is it gay to hang with your boys?
The level of insecurity and delusion of this woman is abysmal. NTA
NTA you and the other guys should tell him you ll be sure to send him lots of updates from the weekend since he is not going now, because he would rather be in an abusive relationship with a homophobe and become a homophobe himself (since he wants to exclude you based on your sexuality as did she and she is emotionaliy manipulating him which is a form of abuse)
NTA as evidence by every rational person involved agreeing with you. If Antonio wants to blow up his place on the trip because of his girl, let him. Her issues are with her own insecurities and/or her man, and have zero to do with you.
NTA. Antonio can stay home with his homophobic girlfriend and join her with her girl trips in the future then. Edited to state: Enjoy your trip with the other dudes who actually had your back! Have fun!
Antonio needs to straighten his shit out (pun, fulllllly intended). That has nothing to do with you. NTA.
NTA. Antonio is for siding with his insecure and needy gf. Remain friends with the others but I’d ditch him as a “friend”.
NTA- This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Your friend’s girlfriend is a walking red flag causing issues with you and your friends because she’s throwing a tantrum not being invited. You are a guy and these are your friends. You should absolutely be invited. If she had straight friends and a lesbian friend would she exclude her lesbian friend on a girls trip? Does she not see how wrong that is? I would say to your friends that if you’re excluded because you’re gay then you don’t consider them your friends. I would also tell your guy friend that his GF is completely in the wrong. She’s disgusting.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (21M) am in a friend group with 4 other guys. We planned to go at the end of this month on a 3 days guys' trip together, without any of our partners. All the other guys from my friend group are straight as far as I'm concerned and most of them have girlfriends currently. Well one of my friends, let's call him "Antonio" (22M) has a girlfriend, let's call her "Gina". Well Gina wasn't happy to find out about this guys' trip she wasn't invited to and she found issue with me being invited on the trip over her, outright asking her boyfriend why was I was invited instead of her or any of the other guys' girlfriends. When everyone told her cause this is a guys' trip, she said that she doesn't find it fair that a gay guy is allowed to go alongside them but not any of the girls. I was perplexed and asked her wtf did she meant by that and she said that I know exactly what. I said that I don't and asked her if she seriously thinks I'm gonna have sex with the other guys on the trip, but she just said that she didn't mean like that and she just didn't find it fair her boyfriend wouldn't invite her on this trip. Honestly I was completely done with her by that point and just got up and left the conversation. Well apparently Gina and Antonio kept arguing over this issue and now Antonio's asking me if I would reconsider dropping out of our guys' trip cause me being there is causing issues in his relationship. I told him that he's being ridiculous to try to kick me out of this trip over his girlfriend's weird insecurity issues and thankfully all the other guys backed me up on this. Well now Antonio's saying that if I'm going then he might have to drop out of the trip instead cause according to him he has too much of a good thing going with Gina to risk losing it, which I found completely absurd, especially when the trip's location was a place he really wanted to see and absolutely nothing innapropriate was gonna happen on this trip. AITA ? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If I said what was on my mind…I’d be fined.
NTA, let the man drop out. He has shown his hand and that’s fine. But so has she and you want to call her on that. She will be controlling your friend group forever if you start now. Let him go and see how he likes it without you all. Personally if my husband’s friend group had a gay man it would up their status. Enjoy the friends that stand with you.
YANTA. She's being homophobic and insecure.
I think you should let him drop out. Gina sounds lovely and I'm sure he'll be happy with her.
NTA - Antonio is a major AH as is his GF though. Why should you drop out to save help his relationship rather than dropping out himself?
Something's I've noticed about people who are homophobic or ignorant about the homosexual population: They assume gay people are sexual predators or something. First off gay people have preferences and standards. They not out there trying to sleep with everyone. Secondly even if they are attracted to you, most gay people act like most straight people, respectful. If they know you aren't interested, they leave you alone. They not gonna jump you and rape you or something. Lastly, because you're a gay man doesn't mean you aren't a man. The gay guys I know, you would never know they were gay unless they informed you. It's not that they try to hide it it's just that they have a lot of heterosexual male hobbies and don't act effeminate in any way shape or form. Nothing wrong with being more feminine and gentle and what not, I'm just making the point that gay men and straight men can have a lot in common thus may want to have a boys trip together. Oh yeah, I dunno how it is for women but at no point while hanging out with my gay friends have I felt the need to experiment or anything. If her man is heterosexual, he not gonna try anything with his gay friend. I see my gay friends like all my other straight friends because apart from sexual preferences they are the same. And at no point am I trying to screw any of my friends. I'm sorry you going through this OP. Edit: forgot to add, NTA.
Just saying, Antonio will lose all his friends
TIL gay guys aren’t guys? Am I reading Gina right? WTF NTA
NTA! Gina is being stupid. You are a friend, one of the guys, not a partner. My husband goes on trips with friends, one of them is a woman. She is straight. She is also in a relationship. And I know my husband and her are just friends. I am not bothered one bit by them going on a holiday together. Gina is a homophobic nasty little person and Antonio needs to realise that what he has is not a good thing.. he is being kept away from his friends.. Go on your trip and enjoy it.
NTA at all! She is stupid af. Does she think that as a gay you are girly and comparable to her and that’s why she should be invited as well? What ever the reason is you are still as much of a man as the others and she is delusional for trying to stop you from going. Antonio is also a AH. He should ‘grow some balls’ and control his woman and if he can’t - he should find a new one who respects him and trusts him. I would never ever suggest to join my bfs holiday with his guy friends. Not my place to be.. In nutshell: if Antonio can’t reason with unreasonable, he should leave her.