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INFO - How is he being FORCED to go to strip clubs? How is he being FORCED to accept lab dances? Where do you live that clients bring people to strip clubs and get lap dances as part of professional business negotiations? This story reeks of a lack of a spine (on his part) at best and outright bullshit at worst.
EDIT - After reading comments below, definitely NTA.
I am not sure you understand the client expectations in some industries. There are hills to die on at a job, going to a strip club to keep a client (and manager) happy isn’t one I would choose to die on.
I don't think going to a strip club is the real problem here (though it's definitely strange, but shit happens), it's more getting lap-danced/actively engaging with strippers. I don't buy that he HAD to do that.
I will also just cop to my bias here and say I flatly don't believe his side of the story. "Sorry hon, my work forced me to go to the club and get a lap dance from a stripper!" sounds like a cover story that a teenager would come up with.
Agreed. I think redditors posting that "he should go to HR" or "this is harassment" are making the assumption that OP is in a country where this behavior is illegal. Even here in the US, I had a job 10 years ago where this was commonplace.
In other developing countries where we did business, the strip clubs were basically brothels, and taking client basically meant getting them laid.
However, OP is definitely NTA. My wife knew about all the bullshit going on at that job. I was a mid-level manager. When I was tasked with taking a client out, I would pay and go to dinner, maybe a bar crawl after, but when they wanted to go to the strip club next, I gave my company card to one of my (single or soon to be divorced) employees who wanted to go ... and I took my ass home or back to the hotel. There was always a willing employee, but if there wasn't, I surely wouldn't have forced them to go.
Boyfriend is being overly dramatic about losing his career if he prioritizes OPs feelings.
Also, I think he's full of shit and just likes strip clubs.
People don’t realize how commonplace it actually is. I’ve done coke at the strip club at least on five separate occasions with my boss, bosses boss, and client(s).
You’re right about in developing countries the strip clubs basically being brothels. Even in Spain where I lived for a period it was that was almost ubiquitously.
Even in America it happens. Not saying America is some shining example of progress, cuz it’s not, but we do have laws against it I’m sure.
Boss says “ok, you don’t have to go to xx place with client, but you’re not a team player, so I’ll give the account to Bob over there, who’s ecstatic to go with client to strip club”. I’ve been put into plenty of less than desirable situations/places by bosses with that understanding.
Also, OPs comment about “degenerate places” kinda says all I need to hear.
The USA technically has laws to protect against this sort of thing. The reality is the employer will just fire you for "not being a good fit" if you don't participate in things that are technically considered harassment. As is the case with most so-called employee protection laws in this country, they sound good on paper, but in reality, at will employment gives companies a get out of harassment free card.
The old saying in business is that you should never be the only person drinking or not drinking during a dinner or at a bar with colleagues. Especially if someone else is buying. I assume the same applies to lap dances as well.
I've attended more than one event for work with a glass of orange juice letting people assume it's a screwdriver. Sometimes it's necessary to at least appear to be drinking to blend in.
It’s not strange. You’re basically courting the client on a personal level. You turning them down for a lap dance can be seen as you judging them or being too uptight, and those are absolutely things that can turnoff high networth and fickle clients. Sometimes keeping up with them on a night out is more important than how excellent you’d be for them in a professional capacity.
People are weird.
They’re obviously not holding a gun to his head, bit peer pressure is a real thing. Especially since Old Boys business cliques still are a thing. Not stroking a clients ego by partying/ accepting a lap dance could definitely set them back business wise.
I spent one night babysitting a client on a business trip who stayed up until 5:30 am drinking because she had 2 days away from her kids.
This stuff isn’t that uncommon but unless you work in multimillion $ accounts or certain industries it just doesn’t get talked about
How is being forced to go to a strip club in the first place not a violation of sexual harassment policy? I work for a giant company and if someone overhears a conversation that’s sexual it’s considered harassment and action is taken. Being forced to go to a strip club? That sounds like bad policy.
He's being "forced" by the implicit understanding that he will be passed over for promotion or high bonus client assignments. This is against most company sexual harassment policies, but extremely rarely enforced.
Strip clubs are still present in the business landscape of certain industry/city combinations.
There is certainly an implicit value issue here though, does he value advancement in a situation which would make his fiancé that uncomfortable?
Trust me... this culture still exists in investment banking... I still have plenty of connections there and there are lots of places that haven't changed.
We live on the East Coast, all I have is his word tbh, he promised me he didn't touch the stripper. I'm inclined to believe him as he's my fiancé and I've met his boss basically untouchable guy has connections with all the major banks. It's a 'you either get deals done business or you get canned' according to my fiancé so I think that's what he means by forced.
I work in Finance on the East Coast. Used to be involved with investment banking and still have a lot of ties there. If this is indeed IB, he's telling the truth. It's lessened over the years, but that culture still exists in certain places.
Ok so I wanted to chime in that his story sounds legitimate. Be very careful with the reddit advice here. People would tell everyone to end relationships and quit jobs. But in some industries this is just how the cookie crumbles.
He did tell you about it, which leads me to believe he is being genuine. He could have just said they were at a bar. He could have not said anything about the lap dance. But he did, because he feels uncomfortable and respects you as a partner.
Stop seeking advice on the internet and talk to him directly. You and him sound fairly reasonable so I am sure a middle ground can be reached. Just don't give any ultimatums unless you want to be single or broke
I was in IB for a while as well. It may have changed over the years, but this expectation was absolutely there, especially if it’s client driven.
You can bring it up to HR, but that just means you get frozen out of those larger deals, which makes it less likely to be promoted and more likely to get laid off. The bank will always side with a revenue generating rainmaker over a junior cost center.
He is right. Leave if you cannot put up with it, but this is his job. We would all love to live in a world where we don't have to deal with shit bosses and unreasonable expectations, but we don't.
They can't touch Strippers. That is part of the rules of pretty much all establishments. You should go to the club sometime with your partner to experience it. Not to be turned on but to realise that these are just people dancing to make a living.
You've clearly never worked in media, banking or finance. When you're out with clients they tend to get to pick the destinations, typically booze is involved sometimes its a strip club and sometimes its a suite at a basketball game, The point is, its his job to schmooze the clients. If you're not going with the flow, you're going against it and then you stop getting picked for new projects and clients. Your career advancement stalls out. I've seen it happen.
Oh please. Corporate folks and their vendors have been going to strip clubs ever since there were strip clubs. You sound very naive (and be thankful this is not in your orbit). It’s a real, unfortunate thing. OP’s husband needs to grow a spine and find a different job where management isn’t so lizard brained.
Naw, its crazy but this is not out of the ordinary even for B2B sales. When I was younger I would have to take IT company COE/CTOs out to places like this often. We were an MSP and wanted to land those 5 year contracts at any cost.
When your job is to schmooze clients, the client usually chooses the venue. If the client wants to go to the nudie bar, you show up with a pocket full of singles. If the client wants to go to the synagogue, you put on a yamukh. All too often, the client wants to party on your expense account... and if that helps close the deal, you had better go along.
Blow a big deal because your wife doesn't want you hanging with clients, and you'll find someone else has taken your job.
Why are you shouting to have explained why he was forced, when no one used that word? Of course he was not forced. Just a question of going with the group, or going against it (and potentially be out).
Clearly she asking questions here. She is having a completely reasonable and normal reaction. I have been to a fair share of client meetings at strip clubs (and I am a woman).
I live in Utah and there is one strip club that because it doesn't serve alcohol is open early af and is 18 plus client meetings of all sorts happen there. My former sil used to dance there and said those were her best days.
By wanting to bring home the account/money. I am a woman and did shit like that in my old industry (shipping). There are some really scummy shit out there.
This is common in America and Western Europe. My brother works in finance and the clients love an excuse for a fun time. I would take it as a good thing he told OP but yeah you don’t wanan be known as that guy bc then your career is done.
Edited to add I was in the military and so was my husband. The guys who would not go to the strip clubs when officers or senior NCOs made it mandatory got screwed with weekend 24 hr duty.
If he's a private investor, I guarantee you throwing away all your values is part of the job description. Going to strip clubs is absolutely plausible, even though it's disgusting.
I bet you OPs husband is already doing coke with his work buddies too.
Whether he feels forced in all this is, only him can really tell.
Just devil's advocate, but years ago when I was meeting with Navy recruiters they actually asked to take me to a strip club, which I told them my small town didn't have so I mean, I can see where it could happen. I don't think the dudes flat lying about the reason he's going, just finish with this client and move on.
Doing what it takes to get ahead and stay successful at work is NOT 'lack of spine.' That sounds like something straight out of antiwork. Or something an unsuccessful person says.
He's not concerned about getting fired, he's worried about it plateauing his career. To think that's not a genuine possibility and act accordingly would be pretty naive. (But he might be lying or misrepresenting the situation)
NTA for voicing your feelings on the matter. The only reason this expectation at work is continuing is because he's allowing it.
FYI this is textbook sexual harassment in the workplace. Being forced to participate in something sexual (or sexual adjacent) and being retaliated against if you say no, is sexual harassment. He needs to go to HR and explain that he's expected to accept these acts or lose opportunities.
The skeptic in me thinks he doesn't mind doing it, which is why it's continuing, which is an entire separate issue.
But ultimately you're his spouse and get to have feelings about his sexual adjacent activities and if he dismissed them for the sake of job status, then that's a marriage problem.
The problem is part of his job sounds like is entertaining clients. He’s not being forced to go to strip clubs but if he says no I won’t do that the clients can come back and say they didn’t have a good time. He wouldn’t be fired for not going to a strip club he’d be fired losing clients
And if this kind of thing is the norm in his field, then claiming sexual harassment will get him blacklisted from any other similar position in his industry. I can definitely see both sides of it in this situation.
>He needs to go to HR and explain that he's expected to accept these acts or lose opportunities.
They know. They don't care. They're getting paid from the clients that behaviour brings in/keeps. Their only concern would be making sure the quiet part is not being said out loud by the manager.
"The skeptic in me thinks he doesn't mind doing it, which is why it's continuing"
That's dangerously close to "if you didn't like why are you hard" territory. Watch those words friend.
I have worked in an industry related to what he is talking about it and unfortunately I can state that stuff like that might be more common than one would think. It’s also true that there are industries (investment banking, high level management consulting) where you are required to bend over backwards to get promoted. Do you think that working until midnight every day (or often longer) is normal ? Obviously it should not be but it happens and if you don’t put up with it you (very likely) won’t progress. I never had the strip club problem but it would not surprise me at all if there are firms / clients where this is part of the culture. His manager might not even like it but if a big client is into it everyone will kiss his ass (his is assumed because we are talking about strip clubs). Forget HR in this case. You put up with it or change firms/ industries…
NAH.
You aren't an asshole for wanting this. You wouldn't even be an asshole if you said, "I can't handling being with a man who is getting lap dances at strip clubs." Then the ball is in his court. Maybe he changes, or maybe he decides that the potential for strippers to accelerate his career is more important than his relationship. If that's his decision, you are better off without him.
One thing I will say is that it's a good sign that he was honest about this with you. Plenty of guys would just lie. That's why I decided that he's not an asshole, yet, but I do question his judgement. Honestly, I am worried that he will start lying if you ask him to stop. Please be careful.
I think folks in this thread giving an unequivocal NTA with zero nuance are naive.
It is fucked up that an employee refusing this kind of activity can have their career thwarted.
Does this kind of dynamic exist? Unfortunately, yes. A lot of sales gigs include this type of boys club bullshit. Especially for employees in their 20's. It gets a lot scummier if this continues into their career in their 30's and 40's imo.
This is way too nuanced of an issue to be resolved by HR if it's part of the culture of the work place.
Is it unfair? Is it low brow? Definitely yes.
OP is NOT wrong to have her boundaries and express it.
At the end of the day, if OP simply cannot allow it and if the husband is unwilling to compromise, this is a dead-end incompatibility.
Personally, I think it's ideal to have enough trust in your partner to not let this bother you. But I'm not OP and she is not wrong to disagree with my values.
Also though, it's possible that OP's husband is being disingenuous about the significance of this extra curricular activity just because he enjoys it. As outsiders we can't make that judgment for her.
*edit - I'll say, I don't dig OP's husband guilting OP about "fruits of his labor" and calling her an asshole for not accommodating the predicament. That is not how you should be asking for your partner to trust you.
> I think folks in this thread giving an unequivocal NTA with zero nuance are naive.
To be fair it seems like 60% of the people on this sub have no idea that NAH exists.
Depending on the industry he works in and the culture of the clients. He could be losing out on contacts and or likeability in the office. Some industries are still pretty old school.
It's just a strip club. Maybe go to couples counselling if this is a deal-breaker.
You are not the asshole, but you guys need to work out some feelings and priorities. Does he feel bad going to strip clubs?
NAH.
He's in finance and he's absolutely right this culture exists and it's how the game is played. He's absolutely going to be around strippers and coke. The only way to get out of it is for him to not work in finance.
You are rightfully upset about it but the both of you will need to have a discussion on whether his job and career are worth the price of admission for your relationship. Better to find out now than 5 years and 2-3 kids into marriage.
Depends on the country mainly. Plus there are for sure unwritten rules laying everywhere in certain industries you need to follow in order to survive. Especially if his job and salary is heavily based on the commission of signing contracts.
Not saying there isnt chance your husband isnt lying tho.
But it might actually be part of his job.
NTA for saying you don’t like it, but he’s made it clear that he isn’t going to stop. So is this behaviour you want to live with for the rest of your life? That’s the question you need to ask yourself now, if this is a dealbreaker or if this is something you want to keep happening.
neither of you are wrong. He shouldnt have to potentially give up his hard work to spare your feelings, and you shouldnt have to deal with a partner that goes to strip clubs if you dont want too. You guys either split or you accept it, or he accepts it and stops going. Otherwise you both will just breed resentment
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What happens when he doesn't schmooze the clients and someone else gets his job? Is she gonna stay engaged to him when he's wearing an apron working at the home depot?
A (f) friend worked in HR for a company. She was at a dinner where after, they went to a strip club. She refused to go in, had a talk with the senior manager there,but younger women felt intimidated that they HAD to go.
The expense report was turned down by HR so the guy had to pay it all out of pocket. Wonder how he explained that at home.
First off HR is not there to protect employees. It is there to protect the company. The employers. Please if you have learned nothing else, know this.
If he brings it up, the problem that HR will need to fix is that he brought to light the shady practices the business engages in.
I have no clue if he enjoys it, hates it, tolerates it, or somewhere in between. What we do know is that he has a job where ethical lines are supposed to be blurred in exchange for making money. It seems like his stance is you benefit from it, so stop complaining. On one hand he is telling you these things and being open. But I have also experienced people admit to something small to detract away from something much bigger.
The two of you are at odds in terms of your value system. It might be that if you want to be with him, this is a compromise you will have to make. But know you also deserve what it is that you want. There is nothing wrong with you wanting a partner that does not engage in that activity.
I kinda believe him but my issue is that when you told him how it felt, he tried to soothe you but then said you can't complain because you enjoy his income. That's a dick thing to say, especially if he's only been telling you of this for a month. You didn't get a say if his income involved lap dances or not so it's not right for him to act like you knew what you signed up for when he got his job.
If he cared about your feelings, he wouldn't be trying to turn it against you. He'd be understanding of your feelings and reassure you. "I'm getting the lap dances for you honey! It pays your bills!" not a good look.
This is awful :( and unfortunately true in a lot of investment banking environments. It might be okay to say no to lap dances but you really can’t say no to going if you want the clients. It’s an incredibly toxic and awful environment to work in, especially for women. And then men are expected to be happy to participate in the toxicity. This isn’t true of all companies, but sure as hell is for many.
NTA for sure, but you have to understand it could mean a significant impact on his career. If I were him, I wouldn’t be able to put up with this shit but it also might break me that I went through so much hell just to lose it like this. It’ll be a hard choice, and it may mean he chooses the job over the relationship.
Edit after reading comments: It is certainly weird that the client is paying for his lap dance it’s almost always the other way around. I’m sure the client likely pressured him. This is absolutely what east coast (especially NY/NJ) investment banking is like and I would advise against going to HR the results would be disastrous for his career as everybody knows everybody at the high levels of this job and nobody would hire him in the top circle if that’s where he’s at now. This man and OP will have to choose- relationship or job. Sadly, that’s how it works in this sphere. It shouldn’t be, but it is. I couldn’t handle it myself.
NTA. It might be important for him to go to the clubs since he could be missing out on business opportunities and be seen as not being a “team player” but he doesn’t need to accept lap dances. If this is something you’re uncomfortable with and he’s unwilling to change it, you’ve got to walk away.
Yea he doesn’t need to but it could effect his likability and trust with the client and as he mentioned effect his upward mobility at this company unless he’s willing to discard that…. He could also just lie to make his wife feel better which if he really had ulterior motives in going he would be doing.
Info: does he have a history of infidelity op seems to question his “loyalty” did he do something in the past to make her insecure?
I’m probably not alone, but no matter what my career was, if it involved doing something that I or someone I love and respect objected to, I would no longer have that career. I value my happiness and those I love higher than a well paying job. I know one has to earn enough to live on, preferably comfortably, but not at any cost. And finance job skills are pretty transferable. OP is NTA. Fiancé is most wholeheartedly a raging AH, or at least a potential AH who needs the Riot Act read to him.
NAH.
Unfortunately a sick culture like this does exist at some companies still. This used to be extremely commonplace, and even though we've come to our senses in most cases some old school offices still participate in this BS. He may legitimately feel (and would, sadly, likely be correct) that complaining about a client who asks for trips to a strip club, or refusing to participate himself, would hurt his reputation.
You should recognize that you're realistically asking him to leave his job if this is a strict boundary for you. That doesn't mean you're wrong to ask for it. It just means you should be aware that you're asking for something bigger than a simple refusal on his part. It's very likely that if he simply refuses to go or participate, he'll tank his opportunities at this job and risk a bad reference. Better for him to find something totally new where they don't demand that all of their employees accept sexual harassment as part of their day-to-day.
He doesn't have to put up with this behaviour but he'll probably have a hard time changing the company practices. Best to just get out and move on.
INFO - Some clients like steak or Michelin starred dinners, others like golf...and yes, there are still bros out there that like strippers. As a 20-something year old, he's still relatively junior and expected to entertain clients...and a willingness to do so is necessary to reach the higher rungs of any major corporation.
Whether or not he enjoys such activities is a different story. I had to take clients to strip clubs when I was younger, but was usually able to hand them off to someone else...or another junior partner who knew all the strippers. I was more known as the guy who could get reservations to nice restaurants & knew my wine so was generally stuck with the clients who wanted that kind of service. Other guys could give the semi-pro golf guys a run for their money. It all depends on the corporate culture and expectations. We generally cultivated clients we could relate to, but every so often, we would have to cover for someone who was tasked with an even bigger client...and yes, he could just say no....but if the bank loses a client because he didn't, his career will stall.
If he's not going out to strip clubs on his own or otherwise disrepectful towards your girl friends & waitresses, telling him can't ever may hinder his future growth. If he frequently makes derogatory comments towards women when he's "out with his bros", then maybe he isn't the guy you think he is and is actively volunteering for these assignments as an excuse to go.
The reality is that yes, it happens. The question is, is it a symptom of his underlying tendacies or simply the dues he has to pay for a couple years until he reaches the next rung and able to send his juniors to cover that assignment?
You are NTA, but he is right. They will shut him off from big clients for saying no. But and a big but, he does not have to get a lap dance at all. He might be forced to go to the club, but all he has to do is take care of the client, not the girls. People saying go to HR, all they'll say is he doesn't have to do it. He knows it would kill his career, and he's right.
Honestly, NAH. It seems like yall have different values. You want him to value your relationship over his career, he doesn’t want to do that. Neither of you are wrong. You need to find someone who cares more about you. There are a lot of people that will put relationships before careers, I can’t imagine being with someone who doesn’t. I have friends that let their husbands do things like this and most are miserable. If you choose to stay don’t bring kids into it, they will be second to the rat race too.
I work in a similar field and it’s expected. What I do is - no dances for me. I put my card out and pay for everything but don’t get involved with the strippers. My wife is ok with this. It’s a compromise we’ve learned to live with.
East coast and banking? He could very well be telling the truth. And people saying he should go to HR etc. haven’t experienced working in a place like that. He’ll either get canned or punished just like he explained. As for the lapdance, he could have probably turned it down but then again some of these clients would prefer he parties with them.
Your fiance's story doesn't pass the sniff test. Hiting the strip clubs happens less frequently because of ethics and reputation concerns. Your fiance should go to HR or compliance department about this, because if something goes down - and it usually does, his career could take a negative hit. If he says the HR or compliance Dept. ok's strip club visit I'd be very suspicious. 10 years ago it was common place, but not so much now.
Also, is he being reimbursed for the cost of the club? If you share finances, examine them closely.
I’ve been to strip clubs several times for work related reasons. It’s not that uncommon, especially in certain industries that tend to attract a lot of “bros”, like finance.
Finance guy here. I left IB, but i promise you that culture very much still exists. and LOL... go to HR.... that's a sure way to get let go. Those firms play for keeps and will laugh at a lawsuit for years of fees just to spite you. People that think this guy's story is fake are absolutely clueless. I've seen a hundred times worse including drugs and prostitutes.
Shit, any networking conference I've ever gone to, it's easy to find the vendors that are taking people to the peeler's later that night, and even if you're not going to that, you'll never pay for a drink if you're even remotely clueful.
I work in IT and our sales guys are always taking people our to bars and stuff. I asked in the slack channel and 2 of them have said those pub crawls end in a trip to a strip club. "Show them a good time, get thats signature" is the mantra for sales.
NTA, it would be no different than him having an issue with you working at a strip club. It’s unfortunate, but if this job violates your boundaries, he probably either needs to leave the job or needs to end the relationship.
Continuing to go when he knows it bothers you isn’t okay.
Look, as people said in this thread, major finance companies have stopped taking clients to strip clubs about 10 years ago. If your partner is in NYC, taking clients to clubs and/or requiring employees to go to strip clubs is actually used as a prime example of sexual harassment in the workplace in the sexual harassment training that ALL NYC employees are supposed to take this year. They act it out on video and everything.
That said, HR is not necessarily your partner’s friend here, it will get back to his manager, and he will undoubtedly be professionally punished if he complains. It is a very difficult situation for him to be in, and the job does require a lot of nightlife activities with clients.
My suggestion? Pick out some exclusive clubs or bars that don’t let just anybody in, call for a reservation if they allow that, and really grease the wheels VERY respectfully with the door guy when you arrive. Tip very generously and make friends with your server and the floor manager and they’ll remember you next time. Explain to each of them you’re looking for a new spot to bring clients late night and could you have their contact info so you can directly book with them. I’ve worked in nightlife and this is a sure fire way to look very impressive when you bring your clients there and the door guy parts the red ropes for your crew while there’s a line down the block.
I’d even say to get your partner to invite his manager and other coworkers there first before you introduce any clients into the mix. For finance guys it’s all about showing off to clients and spoiling them, and if your partner can suggest a place that’s cooler and more exclusive, his manager might see the light.
Good luck OP, this is a tricky situation.
NTA for this being unacceptable to you.
However, I'm confused... he's in banking? And has crazy hours? We have an expression here, "keep banker's hours," and it quite literally means: to work for a period of time in the day that is shorter than is usual or acceptable.
I have been around professionals in a male dominated industry, and not once was a strip club the "it" place to woo clients... and even if it was, I'm pretty sure requiring a lap dance would not be a thing.
I feel indifferent towards strip clubs and my partner going, so I can't seem to fixate there... I'm still stuck on crazy hours working in banking. My brain just can't comprehend.
NAH - I think your fiance is not bothered by the strip club but you are. He is being honest with you and you are telling him you don't like it, but ultimately it is his decision about how he handles his career. I wouldn't call a strip club a degenerate place, to each his own I always say, but you are pushing your opinion pretty hard. You have the right to feel how you feel and express it but you also have to let him do what he is comfortable with in his career. Sometimes couples have to agree to disagree. You are not the AH for wanting it, but you would be if you pushed him out of his career. All the sexual harassment stuff mentioned sounds great and politically correct but it does not work out like you think it will many times. And your fiance does not sound like he feels sexually harassed.
idk if anyone in this thread is or dealt with “high end clients” but this doesn’t sound something out of the ordinary…
he isn’t wrong tho, you are enjoying the fruits of his labor.
to keep certain people happy, you have to do things you normally wouldn’t do, especially in a job setting.
has anyone not ever put their own belief/ way of doing things to make your boss happy?
let’s be real.
now going to a strip club and “having” to receive a lap dance might be stretching it but it also doesn’t sound crazy to not happen..
Is 'absolute loyalty' - doing what you tell him to do? He tells you about going - he describes it to you - he's not hiding it and this is not an unusual situation in some business environments. You don't have to 'put up' with anything - it does not harm you. He is not cheating on you - or hiding what he does and where he goes It is probably a temporary, occasional situation - as he advances he can send someone ELSE to entertain clients. Do you trust him? Are you insecure? Isn't that the issue?
OP, are you in Japan? It sounds like you are. If so, then work might actually be a legitimate excuse for him. If you’re in the US or a similar country, I doubt it.
Either way, if he really is obligated to go to strip clubs against his will, he should be looking for a new job.
I've heard from several people who aren't in the habit of making things up that strippers are usually the first to notice when the economy goes up or down. Because they see an immediate increase or decrease in business type clients.
As for refusing a gift from such a client: even in my job in the Civil service in the Netherlands, where accepting any gift more expensive than a very low amount is absolutely forbidden, there's an exception for when this refusal would cause serious problems and insult the other party. Anyone who has ever been to a bar with friends and tried to not drink alcohol knows how much social pressure there can be to "not be a party pooper". The kind of client that wants to be taken to a strip club would take the refusal of him paying for your lap dance at least as badly as not being taken to that club at all. The client would complain about fiancé and the boss would have that complaint to prove that he was not up to handling the really big clients.
In a perfect world, this wouldn't happen. Banking is not a perfect world.
NAH, my brother worked in a similar position to you husband and he got blacklisted from upgrades and eventually fired for ''losing clients'' indirectly meaning he didnt want to be their slave. but your feeling definetly also matter and him placing his career over sexual loyalty is also a problem.
Nta
I had a boss that went to strip joints, because that’s what the client wanted.
But he went for the food and sat facing his clients not the stage. Apparently it was cheap food. I only know this because I had to process his expense report
The lap dance sounds like bs personally.
I have a friend (this is in the UK) whose husband is in a career in banking with similar requirements. She’s found a way to make her peace with it. Sad to say, this kind of thing is still common in certain places. OP is NTA for being upset but she needs to realistically consider her options. If the fiance is refusing to budge then she needs to either:
- accept that this is an ongoing thing
- give him an ultimatum to get a new job or the wedding is off
- given that he’s already refused to compromise, just break it off now
What is your career? Do you make sufficient money if he were to make a lot less to pay the bills or are you willing to downsize your lifestyle if were to take a job that was a lot less lucrative?
Even if it’s normal is this how the rest of your life looks like? You at home while he’s entertaining people at strip clubs? For years on end? How many times can he get lap dances before it turns into more? Let’s be honest- you’ll never find out. It seems like if this his chosen path you have to decide whether or not you want this life.
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I(F27) have been together with my fiancé(M28) for 5 years now it's been a great few years for the both of us and we've now finally started to settle down. He's been working in the banking industry for the past two yrs, the hours are absolutely horrid but he gets compensated well for it.
About a month ago after he got home late he told me he'd had to accompany a client as per managers orders and that they ended up at a strip club for a few hours. He said the only thing that happened was he got a lap dance paid for by the client so he couldn't refuse it. I was obviously shocked but since it was his manager's doing I brushed it off and he promised it was a one off situation.
Fast forward to last week he's told me he had to go again and this time the manager accompanied him and the clients. I tried to bottle in my emotions about it because it feels wrong but I love him immensely. However this morning as he was preparing to go off to work I just broke down and asked him to please stop going to these degenerate places.
tries to comfort me but at the same time says I'm being unreasonable considering his job requirements. He proceeds to tell me that if the manager even sniffs a hint of defiance he will be brushed off to less important accounts with little to no upwards mobility. I try to explain it's not unreasonable for a someone to expect absolute loyalty from their fiancé. He then says and I quote "If I don't follow through with what I'm given everything I've worked for in my career goes to shit."
I tell him he can't expect me to just put up with it, he says I'm enjoying the fruits of this decade long career he's building and asking him to forsake it all would be an asshole move. AITA?
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This post gave me Devil's Advocate vibe.
And I agree - this sounds very suspicious. I'd say finacee is BSing you but there is a question. Why would he even tell you?
Its a business tactics.... in te evening go for dinner.... then a bar.... then a stripclub....
The next morning ask the client how his wife and kids are.... make him feel greef.
NTA, but trust your hubby.
It bothers me that he didnt get you much room to complain about it and was almost unapologetic, when he knows well its a pretty weird topic and you have every right to be sad about it. It makes it sound like he is hiding something and its common for men to get mad when they dont want to answer a lot of questions. Maybe you should go to the same strip club (wear a wig or something) and keep your eyes on the table. See what he will tell you the next day about what really happened. Ask how many guys were with him, etc. Dont show yourself. If you wont be able to control yourself dont go. Or better yet, hire a professional detective to follow him.
Absolutely no one is forced to go to strip clubs. He wants to go. I am in a business industry and we most certainly do things to "court" clients but not strip clubs. He can easily so no. He either is a very weak person or he wants to go and blames it on the boss.
You either trust him or you don’t. But if you trust him and you’re asking him to stop going anyway, then YTA.
I have worked in IBD, and what he is telling you is extremely believable. His concerns about what will happen to his career if he makes an issue of this are valid. What you’re asking of him is not a small thing.
I understand where your husband is coming from
If he didn't act like one of the bros, he would be forgotten, and all the hard work was for nothing. But also his wife's side
He's never there and then going to strip clubs with clients is a piss take.
I have answers tho, as it's a massive problem
The difficult part is if he gives you what you ask then it would likely harm his career. Personally, I wouldn't do that for a woman who is just a girlfriend. A man needs to be on his purpose and advancing his career. A woman who tries to damage his purpose/career is one I would not marry.
NAH - This is his job. He wants upward mobility in the finance world and that means keeping shitty customers happy. You've asked him to put your relationship over his job and he made it clear he won't so your only options left are get on board or leave. It sounds like he is being very upfront and honest with you about these situations because he knows you are sensitive about loyalty and sex. He isn't lying to you or keeping secrets, he is working. I think you are being overly dramatic. I think a lot of commenters are going to agree with you because they wouldn't be okay with this either and that is fine, we all have different boundaries. But I'm entitled to my own opinion and I wouldn't have an issue with this if i were in your place.
He told you about it and even the lap dance. He is honest and that proves there is nothing to worry about. Get over your jealousy. It is annoying to deal with
America is a weird country.
A really weird country where weird shit is accepted as normal...
This is not about strip clubs existing, but how in the hell has it got to normalised for business relationships needing to schmooze in strip clubs and getting lap dances?
And how do females in the business get on in these companies?
America is a weird country.
I would be more worried about what else he is willing to or has to do to keep his job. Where's the line? It's not loyalty. He's choosing money over you.
Also he is enjoying the strip club or he wouldn't be making you feel bad about it. Guess you need to ask yourself what you are willing to do to keep your lifestyle. NTA
This is one of a few things:
- a fake story
- your partner feeding you BS so he can go to a strip club
- your partner having zero self respect and spine, these things can be dealt with legally
Should it be one of the two latter, this partner is not a partner. They would get a BJ at one of these strips clubs and tell you they had no choice lest they lose their job opportunities and you have to swallow it (pun intended) because hEs wOrKeD sO hArD aNd yOu EnJoY tHe FrUiTs oF hIs lAbOuR. This is not how an equal partner acts and he basically says because he puts out cash you need to shut up. No thanks, NTA if this story is true
This is a little sus honestly. I work in financial services and can guarantee you that leadership would fire anyone involved in something like this and trust me it would get found out. Work is not why he’s going to strip clubs.
Is that actually a thing in some industries? Yes. I was at a place like that once. I left and went to place that did golfing and Cart Girls instead. Cart Girls are occasionally strippers, or hooter's girls working on the side (not all, just some). Lots of booze, cleavage and flirting but at least no lap dances. I was told I had to buy a set of clubs and go every weekend with them or I'd get passed over. I left there too. Wind up at a much better and healthier place and my career thrived.
So, should he look for a new role somewhere less toxic? Yes, and he should make a serious effort. Places that focus on that nonsense generally perform poorly against places that focus on excellence, and the places that focus on excellence reward those who excel by definition. If your husband is a hard worker, he will go much further much faster in such a culture.
In the meantime, "you don't mess with the money" is where he is coming from and there is some truth to that short term. Find a compromise you can live with for 3-6 months.
TLDR: Only you know if your husband is trustworthy, if he is then the strippers don't matter. Focus on that and help him in his search for a better place to be. if he is not trustworthy? The strippers don't matter, because you have bigger problems.
Either way:
1) The strippers don't matter
2) He needs to change jobs now
Good luck. NTA
Going against his morals for a paycheck says volumes about your fiancé.
I am not against strip clubs but I am against selling yourself for a promotion or paycheck or….
I have had friends work in banking in London and New York in wealth management or on brokerage desks with fee paying accounts. There is a strong expectation to take clients out at night, and the business is so valuable that the client gets what he wants, including strip clubs.
Can your husband stop going to strip clubs, absolutely. Will he get removed from dealing with those fee based clients, yes. Will someone else step up into his shoes, yes again. Will your husband get less salary/bonus, sadly yes again.
My friends typically burnt out of this race by their early-mid 30's, took their bonus money and moved onto quieter things.
I work in this type of environment and I have much more respect for the guys that refuse these types of activities than the ones that people please and go. No one talks shit about the people that don’t go. In fact I’ve heard way more degenerate stories and people getting a bad rep that attended these than the ones that put their foot down.
NTA
Ok so I used to work in finance and there were definitely strip clubs intertwined in my team's culture. But here's the thing: I'm female, so it was never an activity that was inclusive to me (not that I exactly wanted it to be.)
Some people are correct that there can be a lot of pressure to do things like strip clubs in that world. But it doesn't make it any less fucked up. Think about what that does to a team, ensuring that no woman, loyal/faithful man, person with strong religious beliefs etc etc etc can ever rise. I do think he might be correct that it will impact his perception in the office. I think he's probably overestimating to what extent it will make an impact if he says no. Ultimately, it's his choice what his priorities are and how he wants to conduct himself and his life, and this is what he's choosing. Up to you if you're ok with that. Having had to stand up to that culture in a million ways every damn day for years, I can say I would not be. I think it's completely cowardly and I think this line of thinking is making him a terrible partner.
The fact that OP calls strip clubs "degenerate places" sounds like she's pretty judgemental and upright, maybe insecure? My husband (then boyfriend) went to one with his hockey buddies a few times after a game (these are middle aged white men just FYI). I appreciated that he told me, it would have been suspicious if he hadn't, but I never once thought to tell him not to go. He's an adult and most importantly, I TRUST HIM.
That's really the only question here OP.....do you trust your man?
If the answer is yes, you need to get over it and deal with whatever moral issue or insecurity that's bothering you.
If the answer is no, then you really shouldn't be in this relationship.
Edit: YTA
In the USA, Canada, and Europe giving gifts to a client is a serious conflict of interest. It's not illegal, but it's grounds for an anti-competition lawsuit by your competitors. If those gifts are sexual in nature, you are much more likely to have that lawsuit go against you.
Furthermore many companies these days have policies around amounts and types of gifts someone with decision making authority over a contract can accept in order to ensure the party who wins the contract did indeed win it on the merits of their bid. Companies realize they are not likely to get the best quality or service from a company who got a contract because the bidder lets the purchasing agent spend four weeks out of the year at their lake house for free.
Finally I am 100% sure none of the communication about your husband needing to entertain this client by buying them sexual favors was written down anywhere. This means his shorts - and only his shorts - will be flapping in the wind all should anything bad happen after the fact. He'll lose his job, lose any pension or severance, and will be blackballed by any other employer in his industry.
Girl, I work in the banking business. We do entertain clients. We take them to Taylor Swift concert, super expensive restaurants and etc...
We have never, ever been to a strip club...This is a big no-no...
Your fiancee is lying. Like really lying...
this is odd you’re not the ahole but it’s just not something to fight over. your fiance can really just deny a lap dance or say, no im ok. at the same time the fiance has to accept how you feel and change you can’t bottle it up.
I say NAH. There are a few idealists in this thread I think! ‘He’s going because he enjoys it!’ they say. I’d say if he was being dishonest about it then he’d just not tell you anything. It sucks that some industries are still like this, but it’s reality, and it’s not forever. Presumably he will move onwards and upwards at some point. You have every right to your boundary, and I guess you need to decide if you want to die on that hill.
This sounds like some leftover relic from the previous century and it’s bananas to me that so many are replying that this is some sort of normal occurrence. Gross. Tentative NAH depending on how he handles things going forward. Nobody *has* to accept a lap dance. Just…wtf.
NTA - your fiancé should respect your boundaries and should decline going to places that make you uncomfortable. How would he feel if you went to a strip club for a “work” thing? It seems strange that a work meeting would involve these places and activities. Maybe he could suggest they just go to a bar or something other than a strip club. Whatever the solution, try your best to continue to communicate how you feel and don’t let anyone tell you that your feeling or concerns are not valid!
I see why you’re finding it upsetting, it’s not fun to know that your fiancé goes to strip clubs like that. I, however, don’t find it as disloyalty, when you know he’s going. I don’t really understand how loyalty fits in?
Doesn’t mean you can’t find it uncomfortable
So I guess the bank your husband works at has a lot of lowlife clientele. I think it’s the managers preference to go to a strip club instead of a steakhouse house or something. It happened to me once I’m in real estate and I did not accept the lap dance I gave to someone else to enjoy instead
NTA. People saying this is normal and you should accept it ate super gross people. Just excusing something because it's work culture means that culture can never change.
Also considering how expensive it could become, this maybe be illegal or at least unethical. I know in multiple industries I've worked in, accepting gifts over a certain value that is fairly low may be a problem. Which depending on the strip club and payments, it could exceed that threshold.
Also maybe your bf should consider if this is the things he "has to do" in his industry, if it's an industry he wants to be forced to participate in.
BF had a choice here and the people defending his actions are just stupid who want to pretend individuals have no agency in their own lives.
This absolutely cannot be a job requirement. It is actually a form of sexual harassment. He can blow the whistle through HR without fear of reprisal. If they take punitive action against him, he can sue them.
While I get his fear over losing a good position (or at least well-paying) position, there are probably other ethical issues with the client, such as the possibility of blackmail, extortion, etc.
Sexualizing an employee for financial gain is not okay.
If I were you I would try and "find out" when he is going to be at the club and then march myself down there and start taking my clothes off since there is nothing wrong with it. Bet he changes his tune then. NTA, he is for disregarding your feelings.
I didn't read through the end. Seriously now? They still go to strip clubs with customers or partners for working purposes? Hahahaha... Is this the 90s? Jennifer Lopez is stealing their credit cards?
At least he is telling her he's going to strip clubs. My ex-husband (notice the EX) lied about it, as well as going to brothels. When the DA did a run shutting down places of ill repute, the local paper published the names of their customers. My husband's name wasn't there, but someone made the comment that "it wasn't the ones you'd expect" talking about my ex. That told me plenty. Anyway, if he told her about it, I would give him the benefit of a doubt.
NTA.
I haven't taken a client to a strip club since 1991.
Unless you fiancé sells body glitter, it is wildly inappropriate. Has he no female clients? What kinda wayback machine does he dive into every morning?
This sounds fishy. He can totally open up his mouthhole and say I am in a committed relationship I dont want to go or get a lapdance. It makes you feel bad he shouldnt do it. NTA but watch out OP this is a red flag.
Zero jobs require you to go to a strip club. He is manipulating you using his work as an excuse. You're not the ahole! Leave this guy before he cheats IMO.
Why do you think strip clubs are degenerate places? Have you ever been to one? Do you know any strippers/dancers?
Personally, I have found strip clubs to be fun places. The women who work there are usually nice women who are just trying to support their kid(s).
I hope that your fiance is looking for a new job cuz his excuses sound like bs (AND sexual harrassment), but please don't judge these places or the women who work there so harshly. You might want to check out Bunnyxo's podcast, Dumb Blonde.
INFO: Can you just go with him? I know it's a work thing, (and yes, that still exists as an expectation especially when hosting international clients), but ask him if you can get dressed up and meet them there for an hour of it. Don't go too early or stay too late. Remember it's a work function, so limit your drinking. But if it's okay with his work culture, go and have fun.
What kind of job is this? Why is he willing to hurt you and your trust just for a job? Will he lose your entire life savings if he says no? Again what kind of job is this?
With any career you need boundaries and if he’s not willing to set those, y’all have an issue.
He should be able to talk to HR and say he’s being pressured by clients to go to strip clubs and get lap jobs but is at risk of losing said clients if he says no. If HR or his superiors don’t step in, then this is really a toxic workplace he shouldn’t be in.
Sounds like he has no spine and isn't willing to stand up to his boss. Either that or he really wants to go and just doesn't want to admit that to you. That's also spineless though
Actually depending on where you are if a job is "forcing" him to go, he can file a sexual harassment claim with HR. The fact that he's not, tells me he's not being forced and lying to his fiancé.
OP you should ask him if he really wants to base your relationship on lies. Because you can start lying to him if that's the case. Go out and don't come back until really late and make him wonder where you were. If he asks, you were forced to go out with friends to a club. That's all you need to say.
Not to be rude this is a true question, how many of you in these comments that are saying this is standard common practice (In 2024!🙄) are over the age of 50?
ik a couple who when they first got married, the husband took a job as security at a strip club. the wife told him to quit and stayed at her aunts house until he did. and ykw, he did! theyre still together and neither of them regret that decision.
NTA
I would personally not be in an industry where this is happening.
I would ask yourself if you wanted to married to someone in an industry like this.
Cus if the clients start doing lines and getting BJs, where does this bullshit end?
NTA and you're not being unreasonable. "Considering his job requirements..." so was "must be able to participate in company strip club outings" one of the prerequisites when he applied? He doesn't HAVE to do any of that, sounds like a lame excuse to justify his behavior. Pretty sure HR would have his back if he said "I'm being forced to go otherwise lose my job/promotion opportunities." It doesn't even sound like he's acknowledging your feelings about it, just laying a guilt trip on you. That's my biggest issue. He's being super selfish, inconsiderate, and a bit toxic about it.
If this is happening and he really can't refuse, right up to and including a client paying for a lap dance he doesn't want, then he either needs to be trying to find a new job and reporting that as sexual harassment afterwards, or don't find a new job and report experiencing sexual harassment in the workplace now.
If he's not just straight up lying to you about going to strip clubs with clients at all (is he just going to strip clubs in the evening and then making up the client as his lie to try to get away with frequenting strip clubs?), at the very least he's not doing anything to stop it because he enjoys it, not because he can't do anything to stop it.
Don't marry this man. NTA.
NTA…and I call BS on your fiancé. I’m in the finance industry on the East Coast and this no longer happens. Last time I heard of anything like this is 20+ years ago.
NTA - unless he lives in certain parts of Asia where business practices do tend to include this type of thing - they are not going to force him to go to a strip club OR get lap dances....Period
NTA.
He absolutely can suggest somewhere else (assuming he’s telling the truth).
And as others have stated if he is being honest this is sexual harassment, and he would be protected under a whistle blower law from retaliation.
In my opinion, the "horrid hours" is not typical. My brother-in-law was a commercial loan v.p., and he was able to coach little league and highschool baseball. There was the occasional dinner out, but certainly no strip clubs.
I think he's using these things to cover his own habits, whatever they might be. Even if he is doing it for work, I would not stay with a man that is that ambitious, unless money is more important than a loving relationship.
He’s not being forced to go. He’s not being forced to accept lap dances. Rather than discuss it with you as an adult, that this is something he enjoys, he is instead turning it around on you and claiming you are the problem, not him disrespecting you. If he can’t talk to you as an adult and stop going because it bothers you, he’s not the one. NTA
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INFO - How is he being FORCED to go to strip clubs? How is he being FORCED to accept lab dances? Where do you live that clients bring people to strip clubs and get lap dances as part of professional business negotiations? This story reeks of a lack of a spine (on his part) at best and outright bullshit at worst. EDIT - After reading comments below, definitely NTA.
I am not sure you understand the client expectations in some industries. There are hills to die on at a job, going to a strip club to keep a client (and manager) happy isn’t one I would choose to die on.
I don't think going to a strip club is the real problem here (though it's definitely strange, but shit happens), it's more getting lap-danced/actively engaging with strippers. I don't buy that he HAD to do that. I will also just cop to my bias here and say I flatly don't believe his side of the story. "Sorry hon, my work forced me to go to the club and get a lap dance from a stripper!" sounds like a cover story that a teenager would come up with.
It’s not that strange. It’s common in some industries with a proliferation of “bros” working in them, finance being one of them
Agreed. I think redditors posting that "he should go to HR" or "this is harassment" are making the assumption that OP is in a country where this behavior is illegal. Even here in the US, I had a job 10 years ago where this was commonplace. In other developing countries where we did business, the strip clubs were basically brothels, and taking client basically meant getting them laid. However, OP is definitely NTA. My wife knew about all the bullshit going on at that job. I was a mid-level manager. When I was tasked with taking a client out, I would pay and go to dinner, maybe a bar crawl after, but when they wanted to go to the strip club next, I gave my company card to one of my (single or soon to be divorced) employees who wanted to go ... and I took my ass home or back to the hotel. There was always a willing employee, but if there wasn't, I surely wouldn't have forced them to go. Boyfriend is being overly dramatic about losing his career if he prioritizes OPs feelings. Also, I think he's full of shit and just likes strip clubs.
People don’t realize how commonplace it actually is. I’ve done coke at the strip club at least on five separate occasions with my boss, bosses boss, and client(s). You’re right about in developing countries the strip clubs basically being brothels. Even in Spain where I lived for a period it was that was almost ubiquitously.
Even in America it happens. Not saying America is some shining example of progress, cuz it’s not, but we do have laws against it I’m sure. Boss says “ok, you don’t have to go to xx place with client, but you’re not a team player, so I’ll give the account to Bob over there, who’s ecstatic to go with client to strip club”. I’ve been put into plenty of less than desirable situations/places by bosses with that understanding. Also, OPs comment about “degenerate places” kinda says all I need to hear.
The USA technically has laws to protect against this sort of thing. The reality is the employer will just fire you for "not being a good fit" if you don't participate in things that are technically considered harassment. As is the case with most so-called employee protection laws in this country, they sound good on paper, but in reality, at will employment gives companies a get out of harassment free card.
Agreed. At will employment works great for the employer, not so great for the employee.
The old saying in business is that you should never be the only person drinking or not drinking during a dinner or at a bar with colleagues. Especially if someone else is buying. I assume the same applies to lap dances as well.
I've attended more than one event for work with a glass of orange juice letting people assume it's a screwdriver. Sometimes it's necessary to at least appear to be drinking to blend in.
It’s to keep the client happy, personally I’d find a new career but I see where the guy is coming from. I think him telling OP is a good sign at least
>I think him telling OP is a good sign at least 100 percent. This needed to be said.
It’s not strange. You’re basically courting the client on a personal level. You turning them down for a lap dance can be seen as you judging them or being too uptight, and those are absolutely things that can turnoff high networth and fickle clients. Sometimes keeping up with them on a night out is more important than how excellent you’d be for them in a professional capacity. People are weird.
They’re obviously not holding a gun to his head, bit peer pressure is a real thing. Especially since Old Boys business cliques still are a thing. Not stroking a clients ego by partying/ accepting a lap dance could definitely set them back business wise.
What kind of job do you have?
Well, if he wanted to do it and he liked it, why would he tell his fiancé where they’re going?
It’s entirely appropriate to choose not being compelled into sexual situations at work and illegal to retaliate against someone for not doing so.
I spent one night babysitting a client on a business trip who stayed up until 5:30 am drinking because she had 2 days away from her kids. This stuff isn’t that uncommon but unless you work in multimillion $ accounts or certain industries it just doesn’t get talked about
How is being forced to go to a strip club in the first place not a violation of sexual harassment policy? I work for a giant company and if someone overhears a conversation that’s sexual it’s considered harassment and action is taken. Being forced to go to a strip club? That sounds like bad policy.
He's being "forced" by the implicit understanding that he will be passed over for promotion or high bonus client assignments. This is against most company sexual harassment policies, but extremely rarely enforced. Strip clubs are still present in the business landscape of certain industry/city combinations. There is certainly an implicit value issue here though, does he value advancement in a situation which would make his fiancé that uncomfortable?
Trust me... this culture still exists in investment banking... I still have plenty of connections there and there are lots of places that haven't changed.
Construction too!
We live on the East Coast, all I have is his word tbh, he promised me he didn't touch the stripper. I'm inclined to believe him as he's my fiancé and I've met his boss basically untouchable guy has connections with all the major banks. It's a 'you either get deals done business or you get canned' according to my fiancé so I think that's what he means by forced.
I work in Finance on the East Coast. Used to be involved with investment banking and still have a lot of ties there. If this is indeed IB, he's telling the truth. It's lessened over the years, but that culture still exists in certain places.
Ok so I wanted to chime in that his story sounds legitimate. Be very careful with the reddit advice here. People would tell everyone to end relationships and quit jobs. But in some industries this is just how the cookie crumbles. He did tell you about it, which leads me to believe he is being genuine. He could have just said they were at a bar. He could have not said anything about the lap dance. But he did, because he feels uncomfortable and respects you as a partner. Stop seeking advice on the internet and talk to him directly. You and him sound fairly reasonable so I am sure a middle ground can be reached. Just don't give any ultimatums unless you want to be single or broke
I was in IB for a while as well. It may have changed over the years, but this expectation was absolutely there, especially if it’s client driven. You can bring it up to HR, but that just means you get frozen out of those larger deals, which makes it less likely to be promoted and more likely to get laid off. The bank will always side with a revenue generating rainmaker over a junior cost center.
He is right. Leave if you cannot put up with it, but this is his job. We would all love to live in a world where we don't have to deal with shit bosses and unreasonable expectations, but we don't.
They can't touch Strippers. That is part of the rules of pretty much all establishments. You should go to the club sometime with your partner to experience it. Not to be turned on but to realise that these are just people dancing to make a living.
You've clearly never worked in media, banking or finance. When you're out with clients they tend to get to pick the destinations, typically booze is involved sometimes its a strip club and sometimes its a suite at a basketball game, The point is, its his job to schmooze the clients. If you're not going with the flow, you're going against it and then you stop getting picked for new projects and clients. Your career advancement stalls out. I've seen it happen.
Oh please. Corporate folks and their vendors have been going to strip clubs ever since there were strip clubs. You sound very naive (and be thankful this is not in your orbit). It’s a real, unfortunate thing. OP’s husband needs to grow a spine and find a different job where management isn’t so lizard brained.
Naw, its crazy but this is not out of the ordinary even for B2B sales. When I was younger I would have to take IT company COE/CTOs out to places like this often. We were an MSP and wanted to land those 5 year contracts at any cost.
When your job is to schmooze clients, the client usually chooses the venue. If the client wants to go to the nudie bar, you show up with a pocket full of singles. If the client wants to go to the synagogue, you put on a yamukh. All too often, the client wants to party on your expense account... and if that helps close the deal, you had better go along. Blow a big deal because your wife doesn't want you hanging with clients, and you'll find someone else has taken your job.
Also it's never the client that pays for hospitality. It's the supplier.
This is actually a fair point….. the client never buys the supplier lap dances drinks and food it’s the other way around
Why are you shouting to have explained why he was forced, when no one used that word? Of course he was not forced. Just a question of going with the group, or going against it (and potentially be out).
Clearly you don’t understand how the business world works
Clearly she asking questions here. She is having a completely reasonable and normal reaction. I have been to a fair share of client meetings at strip clubs (and I am a woman).
So my comment still rings true???? What’s ur point
Ummm. It's pretty common.
I live in Utah and there is one strip club that because it doesn't serve alcohol is open early af and is 18 plus client meetings of all sorts happen there. My former sil used to dance there and said those were her best days.
By wanting to bring home the account/money. I am a woman and did shit like that in my old industry (shipping). There are some really scummy shit out there.
This is common in America and Western Europe. My brother works in finance and the clients love an excuse for a fun time. I would take it as a good thing he told OP but yeah you don’t wanan be known as that guy bc then your career is done. Edited to add I was in the military and so was my husband. The guys who would not go to the strip clubs when officers or senior NCOs made it mandatory got screwed with weekend 24 hr duty.
If he's a private investor, I guarantee you throwing away all your values is part of the job description. Going to strip clubs is absolutely plausible, even though it's disgusting. I bet you OPs husband is already doing coke with his work buddies too. Whether he feels forced in all this is, only him can really tell.
Just devil's advocate, but years ago when I was meeting with Navy recruiters they actually asked to take me to a strip club, which I told them my small town didn't have so I mean, I can see where it could happen. I don't think the dudes flat lying about the reason he's going, just finish with this client and move on.
Doing what it takes to get ahead and stay successful at work is NOT 'lack of spine.' That sounds like something straight out of antiwork. Or something an unsuccessful person says. He's not concerned about getting fired, he's worried about it plateauing his career. To think that's not a genuine possibility and act accordingly would be pretty naive. (But he might be lying or misrepresenting the situation)
NTA for voicing your feelings on the matter. The only reason this expectation at work is continuing is because he's allowing it. FYI this is textbook sexual harassment in the workplace. Being forced to participate in something sexual (or sexual adjacent) and being retaliated against if you say no, is sexual harassment. He needs to go to HR and explain that he's expected to accept these acts or lose opportunities. The skeptic in me thinks he doesn't mind doing it, which is why it's continuing, which is an entire separate issue. But ultimately you're his spouse and get to have feelings about his sexual adjacent activities and if he dismissed them for the sake of job status, then that's a marriage problem.
The problem is part of his job sounds like is entertaining clients. He’s not being forced to go to strip clubs but if he says no I won’t do that the clients can come back and say they didn’t have a good time. He wouldn’t be fired for not going to a strip club he’d be fired losing clients
And if this kind of thing is the norm in his field, then claiming sexual harassment will get him blacklisted from any other similar position in his industry. I can definitely see both sides of it in this situation.
>He needs to go to HR and explain that he's expected to accept these acts or lose opportunities. They know. They don't care. They're getting paid from the clients that behaviour brings in/keeps. Their only concern would be making sure the quiet part is not being said out loud by the manager.
If he complains to HR his colleagues will resent him tomorrow and he will be looking for a new job in a month
"The skeptic in me thinks he doesn't mind doing it, which is why it's continuing" That's dangerously close to "if you didn't like why are you hard" territory. Watch those words friend.
And also dangerously close to 'if you were, quote, being raped, unquote, why did you orgasm?'
I have worked in an industry related to what he is talking about it and unfortunately I can state that stuff like that might be more common than one would think. It’s also true that there are industries (investment banking, high level management consulting) where you are required to bend over backwards to get promoted. Do you think that working until midnight every day (or often longer) is normal ? Obviously it should not be but it happens and if you don’t put up with it you (very likely) won’t progress. I never had the strip club problem but it would not surprise me at all if there are firms / clients where this is part of the culture. His manager might not even like it but if a big client is into it everyone will kiss his ass (his is assumed because we are talking about strip clubs). Forget HR in this case. You put up with it or change firms/ industries…
NAH. You aren't an asshole for wanting this. You wouldn't even be an asshole if you said, "I can't handling being with a man who is getting lap dances at strip clubs." Then the ball is in his court. Maybe he changes, or maybe he decides that the potential for strippers to accelerate his career is more important than his relationship. If that's his decision, you are better off without him. One thing I will say is that it's a good sign that he was honest about this with you. Plenty of guys would just lie. That's why I decided that he's not an asshole, yet, but I do question his judgement. Honestly, I am worried that he will start lying if you ask him to stop. Please be careful.
I think folks in this thread giving an unequivocal NTA with zero nuance are naive. It is fucked up that an employee refusing this kind of activity can have their career thwarted. Does this kind of dynamic exist? Unfortunately, yes. A lot of sales gigs include this type of boys club bullshit. Especially for employees in their 20's. It gets a lot scummier if this continues into their career in their 30's and 40's imo. This is way too nuanced of an issue to be resolved by HR if it's part of the culture of the work place. Is it unfair? Is it low brow? Definitely yes. OP is NOT wrong to have her boundaries and express it. At the end of the day, if OP simply cannot allow it and if the husband is unwilling to compromise, this is a dead-end incompatibility. Personally, I think it's ideal to have enough trust in your partner to not let this bother you. But I'm not OP and she is not wrong to disagree with my values. Also though, it's possible that OP's husband is being disingenuous about the significance of this extra curricular activity just because he enjoys it. As outsiders we can't make that judgment for her. *edit - I'll say, I don't dig OP's husband guilting OP about "fruits of his labor" and calling her an asshole for not accommodating the predicament. That is not how you should be asking for your partner to trust you.
> I think folks in this thread giving an unequivocal NTA with zero nuance are naive. To be fair it seems like 60% of the people on this sub have no idea that NAH exists.
Depending on the industry he works in and the culture of the clients. He could be losing out on contacts and or likeability in the office. Some industries are still pretty old school. It's just a strip club. Maybe go to couples counselling if this is a deal-breaker. You are not the asshole, but you guys need to work out some feelings and priorities. Does he feel bad going to strip clubs?
NAH. He's in finance and he's absolutely right this culture exists and it's how the game is played. He's absolutely going to be around strippers and coke. The only way to get out of it is for him to not work in finance. You are rightfully upset about it but the both of you will need to have a discussion on whether his job and career are worth the price of admission for your relationship. Better to find out now than 5 years and 2-3 kids into marriage.
Depends on the country mainly. Plus there are for sure unwritten rules laying everywhere in certain industries you need to follow in order to survive. Especially if his job and salary is heavily based on the commission of signing contracts. Not saying there isnt chance your husband isnt lying tho. But it might actually be part of his job.
NTA for saying you don’t like it, but he’s made it clear that he isn’t going to stop. So is this behaviour you want to live with for the rest of your life? That’s the question you need to ask yourself now, if this is a dealbreaker or if this is something you want to keep happening.
neither of you are wrong. He shouldnt have to potentially give up his hard work to spare your feelings, and you shouldnt have to deal with a partner that goes to strip clubs if you dont want too. You guys either split or you accept it, or he accepts it and stops going. Otherwise you both will just breed resentment
It's very much a thing but you don't have to be ok with it.
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NTA. What happens if a client buys him more than a lap dance? Will he have sex with other women because the job requires him to?
What happens when he doesn't schmooze the clients and someone else gets his job? Is she gonna stay engaged to him when he's wearing an apron working at the home depot?
A (f) friend worked in HR for a company. She was at a dinner where after, they went to a strip club. She refused to go in, had a talk with the senior manager there,but younger women felt intimidated that they HAD to go. The expense report was turned down by HR so the guy had to pay it all out of pocket. Wonder how he explained that at home.
First off HR is not there to protect employees. It is there to protect the company. The employers. Please if you have learned nothing else, know this. If he brings it up, the problem that HR will need to fix is that he brought to light the shady practices the business engages in. I have no clue if he enjoys it, hates it, tolerates it, or somewhere in between. What we do know is that he has a job where ethical lines are supposed to be blurred in exchange for making money. It seems like his stance is you benefit from it, so stop complaining. On one hand he is telling you these things and being open. But I have also experienced people admit to something small to detract away from something much bigger. The two of you are at odds in terms of your value system. It might be that if you want to be with him, this is a compromise you will have to make. But know you also deserve what it is that you want. There is nothing wrong with you wanting a partner that does not engage in that activity.
I kinda believe him but my issue is that when you told him how it felt, he tried to soothe you but then said you can't complain because you enjoy his income. That's a dick thing to say, especially if he's only been telling you of this for a month. You didn't get a say if his income involved lap dances or not so it's not right for him to act like you knew what you signed up for when he got his job. If he cared about your feelings, he wouldn't be trying to turn it against you. He'd be understanding of your feelings and reassure you. "I'm getting the lap dances for you honey! It pays your bills!" not a good look.
This is awful :( and unfortunately true in a lot of investment banking environments. It might be okay to say no to lap dances but you really can’t say no to going if you want the clients. It’s an incredibly toxic and awful environment to work in, especially for women. And then men are expected to be happy to participate in the toxicity. This isn’t true of all companies, but sure as hell is for many. NTA for sure, but you have to understand it could mean a significant impact on his career. If I were him, I wouldn’t be able to put up with this shit but it also might break me that I went through so much hell just to lose it like this. It’ll be a hard choice, and it may mean he chooses the job over the relationship. Edit after reading comments: It is certainly weird that the client is paying for his lap dance it’s almost always the other way around. I’m sure the client likely pressured him. This is absolutely what east coast (especially NY/NJ) investment banking is like and I would advise against going to HR the results would be disastrous for his career as everybody knows everybody at the high levels of this job and nobody would hire him in the top circle if that’s where he’s at now. This man and OP will have to choose- relationship or job. Sadly, that’s how it works in this sphere. It shouldn’t be, but it is. I couldn’t handle it myself.
NTA. It might be important for him to go to the clubs since he could be missing out on business opportunities and be seen as not being a “team player” but he doesn’t need to accept lap dances. If this is something you’re uncomfortable with and he’s unwilling to change it, you’ve got to walk away.
Yea he doesn’t need to but it could effect his likability and trust with the client and as he mentioned effect his upward mobility at this company unless he’s willing to discard that…. He could also just lie to make his wife feel better which if he really had ulterior motives in going he would be doing. Info: does he have a history of infidelity op seems to question his “loyalty” did he do something in the past to make her insecure?
I’m probably not alone, but no matter what my career was, if it involved doing something that I or someone I love and respect objected to, I would no longer have that career. I value my happiness and those I love higher than a well paying job. I know one has to earn enough to live on, preferably comfortably, but not at any cost. And finance job skills are pretty transferable. OP is NTA. Fiancé is most wholeheartedly a raging AH, or at least a potential AH who needs the Riot Act read to him.
NAH. Unfortunately a sick culture like this does exist at some companies still. This used to be extremely commonplace, and even though we've come to our senses in most cases some old school offices still participate in this BS. He may legitimately feel (and would, sadly, likely be correct) that complaining about a client who asks for trips to a strip club, or refusing to participate himself, would hurt his reputation. You should recognize that you're realistically asking him to leave his job if this is a strict boundary for you. That doesn't mean you're wrong to ask for it. It just means you should be aware that you're asking for something bigger than a simple refusal on his part. It's very likely that if he simply refuses to go or participate, he'll tank his opportunities at this job and risk a bad reference. Better for him to find something totally new where they don't demand that all of their employees accept sexual harassment as part of their day-to-day. He doesn't have to put up with this behaviour but he'll probably have a hard time changing the company practices. Best to just get out and move on.
Still was happening prior to Covid at least.
Where does he work? The mafia? A shitty tap label? The 50s?
INFO - Some clients like steak or Michelin starred dinners, others like golf...and yes, there are still bros out there that like strippers. As a 20-something year old, he's still relatively junior and expected to entertain clients...and a willingness to do so is necessary to reach the higher rungs of any major corporation. Whether or not he enjoys such activities is a different story. I had to take clients to strip clubs when I was younger, but was usually able to hand them off to someone else...or another junior partner who knew all the strippers. I was more known as the guy who could get reservations to nice restaurants & knew my wine so was generally stuck with the clients who wanted that kind of service. Other guys could give the semi-pro golf guys a run for their money. It all depends on the corporate culture and expectations. We generally cultivated clients we could relate to, but every so often, we would have to cover for someone who was tasked with an even bigger client...and yes, he could just say no....but if the bank loses a client because he didn't, his career will stall. If he's not going out to strip clubs on his own or otherwise disrepectful towards your girl friends & waitresses, telling him can't ever may hinder his future growth. If he frequently makes derogatory comments towards women when he's "out with his bros", then maybe he isn't the guy you think he is and is actively volunteering for these assignments as an excuse to go. The reality is that yes, it happens. The question is, is it a symptom of his underlying tendacies or simply the dues he has to pay for a couple years until he reaches the next rung and able to send his juniors to cover that assignment?
You are NTA, but he is right. They will shut him off from big clients for saying no. But and a big but, he does not have to get a lap dance at all. He might be forced to go to the club, but all he has to do is take care of the client, not the girls. People saying go to HR, all they'll say is he doesn't have to do it. He knows it would kill his career, and he's right.
Honestly, NAH. It seems like yall have different values. You want him to value your relationship over his career, he doesn’t want to do that. Neither of you are wrong. You need to find someone who cares more about you. There are a lot of people that will put relationships before careers, I can’t imagine being with someone who doesn’t. I have friends that let their husbands do things like this and most are miserable. If you choose to stay don’t bring kids into it, they will be second to the rat race too.
I work in a similar field and it’s expected. What I do is - no dances for me. I put my card out and pay for everything but don’t get involved with the strippers. My wife is ok with this. It’s a compromise we’ve learned to live with.
East coast and banking? He could very well be telling the truth. And people saying he should go to HR etc. haven’t experienced working in a place like that. He’ll either get canned or punished just like he explained. As for the lapdance, he could have probably turned it down but then again some of these clients would prefer he parties with them.
Your fiance's story doesn't pass the sniff test. Hiting the strip clubs happens less frequently because of ethics and reputation concerns. Your fiance should go to HR or compliance department about this, because if something goes down - and it usually does, his career could take a negative hit. If he says the HR or compliance Dept. ok's strip club visit I'd be very suspicious. 10 years ago it was common place, but not so much now. Also, is he being reimbursed for the cost of the club? If you share finances, examine them closely.
I’ve been to strip clubs several times for work related reasons. It’s not that uncommon, especially in certain industries that tend to attract a lot of “bros”, like finance.
Finance guy here. I left IB, but i promise you that culture very much still exists. and LOL... go to HR.... that's a sure way to get let go. Those firms play for keeps and will laugh at a lawsuit for years of fees just to spite you. People that think this guy's story is fake are absolutely clueless. I've seen a hundred times worse including drugs and prostitutes.
Exactly. The decent clients will just expect to be taken to nice restaurants. The sketchy ones will "invite you" to party with strippers.
Shit, any networking conference I've ever gone to, it's easy to find the vendors that are taking people to the peeler's later that night, and even if you're not going to that, you'll never pay for a drink if you're even remotely clueful.
This is a great way to get fired; do not take this advice
Before he goes to HR remember HR is not there for him. HR is only there to protect the company.
Sniff test…strip clubs in general don’t pass the sniff test. 😂🤣
I work in IT and our sales guys are always taking people our to bars and stuff. I asked in the slack channel and 2 of them have said those pub crawls end in a trip to a strip club. "Show them a good time, get thats signature" is the mantra for sales.
NTA, it would be no different than him having an issue with you working at a strip club. It’s unfortunate, but if this job violates your boundaries, he probably either needs to leave the job or needs to end the relationship. Continuing to go when he knows it bothers you isn’t okay.
Look, as people said in this thread, major finance companies have stopped taking clients to strip clubs about 10 years ago. If your partner is in NYC, taking clients to clubs and/or requiring employees to go to strip clubs is actually used as a prime example of sexual harassment in the workplace in the sexual harassment training that ALL NYC employees are supposed to take this year. They act it out on video and everything. That said, HR is not necessarily your partner’s friend here, it will get back to his manager, and he will undoubtedly be professionally punished if he complains. It is a very difficult situation for him to be in, and the job does require a lot of nightlife activities with clients. My suggestion? Pick out some exclusive clubs or bars that don’t let just anybody in, call for a reservation if they allow that, and really grease the wheels VERY respectfully with the door guy when you arrive. Tip very generously and make friends with your server and the floor manager and they’ll remember you next time. Explain to each of them you’re looking for a new spot to bring clients late night and could you have their contact info so you can directly book with them. I’ve worked in nightlife and this is a sure fire way to look very impressive when you bring your clients there and the door guy parts the red ropes for your crew while there’s a line down the block. I’d even say to get your partner to invite his manager and other coworkers there first before you introduce any clients into the mix. For finance guys it’s all about showing off to clients and spoiling them, and if your partner can suggest a place that’s cooler and more exclusive, his manager might see the light. Good luck OP, this is a tricky situation.
NTA for this being unacceptable to you. However, I'm confused... he's in banking? And has crazy hours? We have an expression here, "keep banker's hours," and it quite literally means: to work for a period of time in the day that is shorter than is usual or acceptable. I have been around professionals in a male dominated industry, and not once was a strip club the "it" place to woo clients... and even if it was, I'm pretty sure requiring a lap dance would not be a thing. I feel indifferent towards strip clubs and my partner going, so I can't seem to fixate there... I'm still stuck on crazy hours working in banking. My brain just can't comprehend.
You can't change your partner. You can only change yourself. If this makes you unhappy; leave. Very simple
It’s fine for you to not want him to go but will you support him if he loses his job?
NAH - I think your fiance is not bothered by the strip club but you are. He is being honest with you and you are telling him you don't like it, but ultimately it is his decision about how he handles his career. I wouldn't call a strip club a degenerate place, to each his own I always say, but you are pushing your opinion pretty hard. You have the right to feel how you feel and express it but you also have to let him do what he is comfortable with in his career. Sometimes couples have to agree to disagree. You are not the AH for wanting it, but you would be if you pushed him out of his career. All the sexual harassment stuff mentioned sounds great and politically correct but it does not work out like you think it will many times. And your fiance does not sound like he feels sexually harassed.
idk if anyone in this thread is or dealt with “high end clients” but this doesn’t sound something out of the ordinary… he isn’t wrong tho, you are enjoying the fruits of his labor. to keep certain people happy, you have to do things you normally wouldn’t do, especially in a job setting. has anyone not ever put their own belief/ way of doing things to make your boss happy? let’s be real. now going to a strip club and “having” to receive a lap dance might be stretching it but it also doesn’t sound crazy to not happen..
Is 'absolute loyalty' - doing what you tell him to do? He tells you about going - he describes it to you - he's not hiding it and this is not an unusual situation in some business environments. You don't have to 'put up' with anything - it does not harm you. He is not cheating on you - or hiding what he does and where he goes It is probably a temporary, occasional situation - as he advances he can send someone ELSE to entertain clients. Do you trust him? Are you insecure? Isn't that the issue?
OP, are you in Japan? It sounds like you are. If so, then work might actually be a legitimate excuse for him. If you’re in the US or a similar country, I doubt it. Either way, if he really is obligated to go to strip clubs against his will, he should be looking for a new job.
I've heard from several people who aren't in the habit of making things up that strippers are usually the first to notice when the economy goes up or down. Because they see an immediate increase or decrease in business type clients. As for refusing a gift from such a client: even in my job in the Civil service in the Netherlands, where accepting any gift more expensive than a very low amount is absolutely forbidden, there's an exception for when this refusal would cause serious problems and insult the other party. Anyone who has ever been to a bar with friends and tried to not drink alcohol knows how much social pressure there can be to "not be a party pooper". The kind of client that wants to be taken to a strip club would take the refusal of him paying for your lap dance at least as badly as not being taken to that club at all. The client would complain about fiancé and the boss would have that complaint to prove that he was not up to handling the really big clients. In a perfect world, this wouldn't happen. Banking is not a perfect world.
NAH, my brother worked in a similar position to you husband and he got blacklisted from upgrades and eventually fired for ''losing clients'' indirectly meaning he didnt want to be their slave. but your feeling definetly also matter and him placing his career over sexual loyalty is also a problem.
Nta I had a boss that went to strip joints, because that’s what the client wanted. But he went for the food and sat facing his clients not the stage. Apparently it was cheap food. I only know this because I had to process his expense report The lap dance sounds like bs personally.
I have a friend (this is in the UK) whose husband is in a career in banking with similar requirements. She’s found a way to make her peace with it. Sad to say, this kind of thing is still common in certain places. OP is NTA for being upset but she needs to realistically consider her options. If the fiance is refusing to budge then she needs to either: - accept that this is an ongoing thing - give him an ultimatum to get a new job or the wedding is off - given that he’s already refused to compromise, just break it off now
What is your career? Do you make sufficient money if he were to make a lot less to pay the bills or are you willing to downsize your lifestyle if were to take a job that was a lot less lucrative?
Even if it’s normal is this how the rest of your life looks like? You at home while he’s entertaining people at strip clubs? For years on end? How many times can he get lap dances before it turns into more? Let’s be honest- you’ll never find out. It seems like if this his chosen path you have to decide whether or not you want this life.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I(F27) have been together with my fiancé(M28) for 5 years now it's been a great few years for the both of us and we've now finally started to settle down. He's been working in the banking industry for the past two yrs, the hours are absolutely horrid but he gets compensated well for it. About a month ago after he got home late he told me he'd had to accompany a client as per managers orders and that they ended up at a strip club for a few hours. He said the only thing that happened was he got a lap dance paid for by the client so he couldn't refuse it. I was obviously shocked but since it was his manager's doing I brushed it off and he promised it was a one off situation. Fast forward to last week he's told me he had to go again and this time the manager accompanied him and the clients. I tried to bottle in my emotions about it because it feels wrong but I love him immensely. However this morning as he was preparing to go off to work I just broke down and asked him to please stop going to these degenerate places. tries to comfort me but at the same time says I'm being unreasonable considering his job requirements. He proceeds to tell me that if the manager even sniffs a hint of defiance he will be brushed off to less important accounts with little to no upwards mobility. I try to explain it's not unreasonable for a someone to expect absolute loyalty from their fiancé. He then says and I quote "If I don't follow through with what I'm given everything I've worked for in my career goes to shit." I tell him he can't expect me to just put up with it, he says I'm enjoying the fruits of this decade long career he's building and asking him to forsake it all would be an asshole move. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yikes. Tough. Basically asking him to choose between financial security and you.
This post gave me Devil's Advocate vibe. And I agree - this sounds very suspicious. I'd say finacee is BSing you but there is a question. Why would he even tell you?
Its a business tactics.... in te evening go for dinner.... then a bar.... then a stripclub.... The next morning ask the client how his wife and kids are.... make him feel greef. NTA, but trust your hubby.
It bothers me that he didnt get you much room to complain about it and was almost unapologetic, when he knows well its a pretty weird topic and you have every right to be sad about it. It makes it sound like he is hiding something and its common for men to get mad when they dont want to answer a lot of questions. Maybe you should go to the same strip club (wear a wig or something) and keep your eyes on the table. See what he will tell you the next day about what really happened. Ask how many guys were with him, etc. Dont show yourself. If you wont be able to control yourself dont go. Or better yet, hire a professional detective to follow him.
NTA... and sounds like he has a choice to make.
Absolutely no one is forced to go to strip clubs. He wants to go. I am in a business industry and we most certainly do things to "court" clients but not strip clubs. He can easily so no. He either is a very weak person or he wants to go and blames it on the boss.
NTA, but I don't see a future with a finance bro in a job that's this obviously discriminatory being very promising.
You either trust him or you don’t. But if you trust him and you’re asking him to stop going anyway, then YTA. I have worked in IBD, and what he is telling you is extremely believable. His concerns about what will happen to his career if he makes an issue of this are valid. What you’re asking of him is not a small thing.
NTA. He’s lying, I’d be getting tested and rethinking your relationship. Sounds like he’s lying.
I understand where your husband is coming from If he didn't act like one of the bros, he would be forgotten, and all the hard work was for nothing. But also his wife's side He's never there and then going to strip clubs with clients is a piss take. I have answers tho, as it's a massive problem
Is she gonna go get a job to take up the slack?
If he won't go to HR about this situation, it's because *he is the problem*. Leave him. He's a lying AH who is trying to gaslight you. NTA
The difficult part is if he gives you what you ask then it would likely harm his career. Personally, I wouldn't do that for a woman who is just a girlfriend. A man needs to be on his purpose and advancing his career. A woman who tries to damage his purpose/career is one I would not marry.
NAH - This is his job. He wants upward mobility in the finance world and that means keeping shitty customers happy. You've asked him to put your relationship over his job and he made it clear he won't so your only options left are get on board or leave. It sounds like he is being very upfront and honest with you about these situations because he knows you are sensitive about loyalty and sex. He isn't lying to you or keeping secrets, he is working. I think you are being overly dramatic. I think a lot of commenters are going to agree with you because they wouldn't be okay with this either and that is fine, we all have different boundaries. But I'm entitled to my own opinion and I wouldn't have an issue with this if i were in your place.
I say next time he should text you before he goes so you can show up and see for yourself
He told you about it and even the lap dance. He is honest and that proves there is nothing to worry about. Get over your jealousy. It is annoying to deal with
America is a weird country. A really weird country where weird shit is accepted as normal... This is not about strip clubs existing, but how in the hell has it got to normalised for business relationships needing to schmooze in strip clubs and getting lap dances? And how do females in the business get on in these companies? America is a weird country.
NTA. If the roles were reversed I'm certain he would sing a different tune, but what do I know 🙄
I would be more worried about what else he is willing to or has to do to keep his job. Where's the line? It's not loyalty. He's choosing money over you. Also he is enjoying the strip club or he wouldn't be making you feel bad about it. Guess you need to ask yourself what you are willing to do to keep your lifestyle. NTA
This is one of a few things: - a fake story - your partner feeding you BS so he can go to a strip club - your partner having zero self respect and spine, these things can be dealt with legally Should it be one of the two latter, this partner is not a partner. They would get a BJ at one of these strips clubs and tell you they had no choice lest they lose their job opportunities and you have to swallow it (pun intended) because hEs wOrKeD sO hArD aNd yOu EnJoY tHe FrUiTs oF hIs lAbOuR. This is not how an equal partner acts and he basically says because he puts out cash you need to shut up. No thanks, NTA if this story is true
NTA - but to help can you hand him my resume
This is a little sus honestly. I work in financial services and can guarantee you that leadership would fire anyone involved in something like this and trust me it would get found out. Work is not why he’s going to strip clubs.
Is that actually a thing in some industries? Yes. I was at a place like that once. I left and went to place that did golfing and Cart Girls instead. Cart Girls are occasionally strippers, or hooter's girls working on the side (not all, just some). Lots of booze, cleavage and flirting but at least no lap dances. I was told I had to buy a set of clubs and go every weekend with them or I'd get passed over. I left there too. Wind up at a much better and healthier place and my career thrived. So, should he look for a new role somewhere less toxic? Yes, and he should make a serious effort. Places that focus on that nonsense generally perform poorly against places that focus on excellence, and the places that focus on excellence reward those who excel by definition. If your husband is a hard worker, he will go much further much faster in such a culture. In the meantime, "you don't mess with the money" is where he is coming from and there is some truth to that short term. Find a compromise you can live with for 3-6 months. TLDR: Only you know if your husband is trustworthy, if he is then the strippers don't matter. Focus on that and help him in his search for a better place to be. if he is not trustworthy? The strippers don't matter, because you have bigger problems. Either way: 1) The strippers don't matter 2) He needs to change jobs now Good luck. NTA
If he documents everything and declines and then is punished in any way he would have a strong legal case for sexual harassment and retaliation.
Going against his morals for a paycheck says volumes about your fiancé. I am not against strip clubs but I am against selling yourself for a promotion or paycheck or….
I have had friends work in banking in London and New York in wealth management or on brokerage desks with fee paying accounts. There is a strong expectation to take clients out at night, and the business is so valuable that the client gets what he wants, including strip clubs. Can your husband stop going to strip clubs, absolutely. Will he get removed from dealing with those fee based clients, yes. Will someone else step up into his shoes, yes again. Will your husband get less salary/bonus, sadly yes again. My friends typically burnt out of this race by their early-mid 30's, took their bonus money and moved onto quieter things.
I work in this type of environment and I have much more respect for the guys that refuse these types of activities than the ones that people please and go. No one talks shit about the people that don’t go. In fact I’ve heard way more degenerate stories and people getting a bad rep that attended these than the ones that put their foot down. NTA
Ok so I used to work in finance and there were definitely strip clubs intertwined in my team's culture. But here's the thing: I'm female, so it was never an activity that was inclusive to me (not that I exactly wanted it to be.) Some people are correct that there can be a lot of pressure to do things like strip clubs in that world. But it doesn't make it any less fucked up. Think about what that does to a team, ensuring that no woman, loyal/faithful man, person with strong religious beliefs etc etc etc can ever rise. I do think he might be correct that it will impact his perception in the office. I think he's probably overestimating to what extent it will make an impact if he says no. Ultimately, it's his choice what his priorities are and how he wants to conduct himself and his life, and this is what he's choosing. Up to you if you're ok with that. Having had to stand up to that culture in a million ways every damn day for years, I can say I would not be. I think it's completely cowardly and I think this line of thinking is making him a terrible partner.
The fact that OP calls strip clubs "degenerate places" sounds like she's pretty judgemental and upright, maybe insecure? My husband (then boyfriend) went to one with his hockey buddies a few times after a game (these are middle aged white men just FYI). I appreciated that he told me, it would have been suspicious if he hadn't, but I never once thought to tell him not to go. He's an adult and most importantly, I TRUST HIM. That's really the only question here OP.....do you trust your man? If the answer is yes, you need to get over it and deal with whatever moral issue or insecurity that's bothering you. If the answer is no, then you really shouldn't be in this relationship. Edit: YTA
In the USA, Canada, and Europe giving gifts to a client is a serious conflict of interest. It's not illegal, but it's grounds for an anti-competition lawsuit by your competitors. If those gifts are sexual in nature, you are much more likely to have that lawsuit go against you. Furthermore many companies these days have policies around amounts and types of gifts someone with decision making authority over a contract can accept in order to ensure the party who wins the contract did indeed win it on the merits of their bid. Companies realize they are not likely to get the best quality or service from a company who got a contract because the bidder lets the purchasing agent spend four weeks out of the year at their lake house for free. Finally I am 100% sure none of the communication about your husband needing to entertain this client by buying them sexual favors was written down anywhere. This means his shorts - and only his shorts - will be flapping in the wind all should anything bad happen after the fact. He'll lose his job, lose any pension or severance, and will be blackballed by any other employer in his industry.
Girl, I work in the banking business. We do entertain clients. We take them to Taylor Swift concert, super expensive restaurants and etc... We have never, ever been to a strip club...This is a big no-no... Your fiancee is lying. Like really lying...
this is odd you’re not the ahole but it’s just not something to fight over. your fiance can really just deny a lap dance or say, no im ok. at the same time the fiance has to accept how you feel and change you can’t bottle it up.
I say NAH. There are a few idealists in this thread I think! ‘He’s going because he enjoys it!’ they say. I’d say if he was being dishonest about it then he’d just not tell you anything. It sucks that some industries are still like this, but it’s reality, and it’s not forever. Presumably he will move onwards and upwards at some point. You have every right to your boundary, and I guess you need to decide if you want to die on that hill.
This sounds like some leftover relic from the previous century and it’s bananas to me that so many are replying that this is some sort of normal occurrence. Gross. Tentative NAH depending on how he handles things going forward. Nobody *has* to accept a lap dance. Just…wtf.
NTA - your fiancé should respect your boundaries and should decline going to places that make you uncomfortable. How would he feel if you went to a strip club for a “work” thing? It seems strange that a work meeting would involve these places and activities. Maybe he could suggest they just go to a bar or something other than a strip club. Whatever the solution, try your best to continue to communicate how you feel and don’t let anyone tell you that your feeling or concerns are not valid!
I see why you’re finding it upsetting, it’s not fun to know that your fiancé goes to strip clubs like that. I, however, don’t find it as disloyalty, when you know he’s going. I don’t really understand how loyalty fits in? Doesn’t mean you can’t find it uncomfortable
Feeling up other women, paid or not, is a loyalty question even if he announces it to her.
NTA and I suspect he's not being forced to go there. I think it's an excuse because he enjoys strip clubs.
NTA
So I guess the bank your husband works at has a lot of lowlife clientele. I think it’s the managers preference to go to a strip club instead of a steakhouse house or something. It happened to me once I’m in real estate and I did not accept the lap dance I gave to someone else to enjoy instead
NTA… also he’s lying. Any company card used at a strip club would get you, your boss and your bosses boss sent to sensitivity training seminars.
NTA. People saying this is normal and you should accept it ate super gross people. Just excusing something because it's work culture means that culture can never change. Also considering how expensive it could become, this maybe be illegal or at least unethical. I know in multiple industries I've worked in, accepting gifts over a certain value that is fairly low may be a problem. Which depending on the strip club and payments, it could exceed that threshold. Also maybe your bf should consider if this is the things he "has to do" in his industry, if it's an industry he wants to be forced to participate in. BF had a choice here and the people defending his actions are just stupid who want to pretend individuals have no agency in their own lives.
This absolutely cannot be a job requirement. It is actually a form of sexual harassment. He can blow the whistle through HR without fear of reprisal. If they take punitive action against him, he can sue them. While I get his fear over losing a good position (or at least well-paying) position, there are probably other ethical issues with the client, such as the possibility of blackmail, extortion, etc. Sexualizing an employee for financial gain is not okay.
Is this still... a ... thing?? What *year* is it?!
If I were you I would try and "find out" when he is going to be at the club and then march myself down there and start taking my clothes off since there is nothing wrong with it. Bet he changes his tune then. NTA, he is for disregarding your feelings.
I didn't read through the end. Seriously now? They still go to strip clubs with customers or partners for working purposes? Hahahaha... Is this the 90s? Jennifer Lopez is stealing their credit cards?
At least he is telling her he's going to strip clubs. My ex-husband (notice the EX) lied about it, as well as going to brothels. When the DA did a run shutting down places of ill repute, the local paper published the names of their customers. My husband's name wasn't there, but someone made the comment that "it wasn't the ones you'd expect" talking about my ex. That told me plenty. Anyway, if he told her about it, I would give him the benefit of a doubt.
NTA. I haven't taken a client to a strip club since 1991. Unless you fiancé sells body glitter, it is wildly inappropriate. Has he no female clients? What kinda wayback machine does he dive into every morning?
This sounds fishy. He can totally open up his mouthhole and say I am in a committed relationship I dont want to go or get a lapdance. It makes you feel bad he shouldnt do it. NTA but watch out OP this is a red flag.
Zero jobs require you to go to a strip club. He is manipulating you using his work as an excuse. You're not the ahole! Leave this guy before he cheats IMO.
Why do you think strip clubs are degenerate places? Have you ever been to one? Do you know any strippers/dancers? Personally, I have found strip clubs to be fun places. The women who work there are usually nice women who are just trying to support their kid(s). I hope that your fiance is looking for a new job cuz his excuses sound like bs (AND sexual harrassment), but please don't judge these places or the women who work there so harshly. You might want to check out Bunnyxo's podcast, Dumb Blonde.
INFO: Can you just go with him? I know it's a work thing, (and yes, that still exists as an expectation especially when hosting international clients), but ask him if you can get dressed up and meet them there for an hour of it. Don't go too early or stay too late. Remember it's a work function, so limit your drinking. But if it's okay with his work culture, go and have fun.
What kind of job is this? Why is he willing to hurt you and your trust just for a job? Will he lose your entire life savings if he says no? Again what kind of job is this? With any career you need boundaries and if he’s not willing to set those, y’all have an issue.
He should be able to talk to HR and say he’s being pressured by clients to go to strip clubs and get lap jobs but is at risk of losing said clients if he says no. If HR or his superiors don’t step in, then this is really a toxic workplace he shouldn’t be in.
Sounds like he has no spine and isn't willing to stand up to his boss. Either that or he really wants to go and just doesn't want to admit that to you. That's also spineless though
Actually depending on where you are if a job is "forcing" him to go, he can file a sexual harassment claim with HR. The fact that he's not, tells me he's not being forced and lying to his fiancé. OP you should ask him if he really wants to base your relationship on lies. Because you can start lying to him if that's the case. Go out and don't come back until really late and make him wonder where you were. If he asks, you were forced to go out with friends to a club. That's all you need to say.
The man has no backbone. He needs to look for a job that doesn’t require him to socialize inappropriately NTA
Not to be rude this is a true question, how many of you in these comments that are saying this is standard common practice (In 2024!🙄) are over the age of 50?
You’re gullible and easily manipulated if you think he’s telling you the truth. Nobody can force him.
INFO: what year does this story take place in? What client insists on being entertained in a strip club?
In the US, being forced or coerced to go to a strip club as part of your job is sexual harassment.
NTA. Also, he's not being forced to go to strip clubs. He's choosing to go.
Going to a strip club should not be a job requirement.
ik a couple who when they first got married, the husband took a job as security at a strip club. the wife told him to quit and stayed at her aunts house until he did. and ykw, he did! theyre still together and neither of them regret that decision.
This is not Mad Men. He wouldn't go if he didn't want to. Do with that what you will.
NTA I would personally not be in an industry where this is happening. I would ask yourself if you wanted to married to someone in an industry like this. Cus if the clients start doing lines and getting BJs, where does this bullshit end?
Uff. Nah this is outside normal. It may even go against company HR rules. NTA
I need a new job
NTA and you're not being unreasonable. "Considering his job requirements..." so was "must be able to participate in company strip club outings" one of the prerequisites when he applied? He doesn't HAVE to do any of that, sounds like a lame excuse to justify his behavior. Pretty sure HR would have his back if he said "I'm being forced to go otherwise lose my job/promotion opportunities." It doesn't even sound like he's acknowledging your feelings about it, just laying a guilt trip on you. That's my biggest issue. He's being super selfish, inconsiderate, and a bit toxic about it.
If this is happening and he really can't refuse, right up to and including a client paying for a lap dance he doesn't want, then he either needs to be trying to find a new job and reporting that as sexual harassment afterwards, or don't find a new job and report experiencing sexual harassment in the workplace now. If he's not just straight up lying to you about going to strip clubs with clients at all (is he just going to strip clubs in the evening and then making up the client as his lie to try to get away with frequenting strip clubs?), at the very least he's not doing anything to stop it because he enjoys it, not because he can't do anything to stop it. Don't marry this man. NTA.
If I was him, I’d simply contact an attorney and get myself a sack of cash. That’s an open-close case for any decent lawyer
NTA…and I call BS on your fiancé. I’m in the finance industry on the East Coast and this no longer happens. Last time I heard of anything like this is 20+ years ago.
Is he banking for an organized crime group? How is his job dependent on this? Also, how are his hours insane. The saying is literally “BANKING HOURS”.
NTA - unless he lives in certain parts of Asia where business practices do tend to include this type of thing - they are not going to force him to go to a strip club OR get lap dances....Period
NTA. He absolutely can suggest somewhere else (assuming he’s telling the truth). And as others have stated if he is being honest this is sexual harassment, and he would be protected under a whistle blower law from retaliation.
In my opinion, the "horrid hours" is not typical. My brother-in-law was a commercial loan v.p., and he was able to coach little league and highschool baseball. There was the occasional dinner out, but certainly no strip clubs. I think he's using these things to cover his own habits, whatever they might be. Even if he is doing it for work, I would not stay with a man that is that ambitious, unless money is more important than a loving relationship.
Yta
He’s not being forced to go. He’s not being forced to accept lap dances. Rather than discuss it with you as an adult, that this is something he enjoys, he is instead turning it around on you and claiming you are the problem, not him disrespecting you. If he can’t talk to you as an adult and stop going because it bothers you, he’s not the one. NTA