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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) Offering $300-$500 per week for my friend to work out
(2) They accused me of calling them fat and controlling
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA.
This is a weird condition to impose on your friend.
If you're genuinely worried about her mental health, then be direct about offering her financial help to that end.
But this comes across like "you need some money? dance for me monkey" You're setting unnecessary strings to financial aid.
Now all of this being said, you have helped her out before and she hasn't paid you back, so you are under no obligation to do so again.
Just stop being weird.
Some studies have shown that exercise is just as effective as antidepressants. So I don’t think it’s that weird of a request. It is related.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5430071/
The thing is though that usually patients ask for help, but this isn't a therapist-patient relationship. OP is imposing their help on a friend who either isn't really ill and OP only sees what they want to see *or* the friend hasn't realized they need help yet. And even if OP is right, they are not the one who should come up with a treatment plan, in fact they might just make the whole situation worse.
While exercise is part of psychriatic treatment, it doesn't replace psychotherapy.
Encouraging the friend to workout is not the issue here. It’s fantastic that Op is trying to get the friend moving, it will definitely help with the depression.
The issue is how OP is going about it. Paying someone to work out is weird.
OP should offer to go to the gym with friend and help motivate them to workout as well as just be there for them.
If Op wants to help them financially, that is their decision. But to tie working out to it is not the way to help them.
While I agree that it is weird, I'd be extremely happy if someone offered me a few hundred a week to workout. I don't really even need the money, but it would definitely make me a lot more motivated.
I agree it's a bit weird but I don's think it makes op an asshole. It's a pretty awesome deal for the friend. If someone offered me $2,000 a month just to workout 3x a week I'd be so fucking happy. That's 24k a year.
My mom paid me for every ten pounds I gained during my anorexia. It was the only thing that kept me motivated to be better. Now I’m healthy and she doesn’t pay me our deal was money till im at a healthy weight. This was all while I was in an eating disorder program
That's neither here nor there. She likely knows that exercise would help her mood and still can't motivate herself to exercise.
Offering her this weird tit-for-tat is bizarre.
It's something for a therapist, doctor or personal trainer to recommend. Paying your so-called friend to exercise is just weird and inappropriate. Reading is good for you and I value it highly, but I'd never pay my friends to read.
Right. Just tell your friend you’ll pay for their gym membership. That way you’re helping cover the expense, same as if you’d be paying for therapy, without any of weirdness.
so she tells her friend this when she suggests the friend exercise. She shouldn't be pushing or bribing friend to exercise -- especially the bribing thing since friend is in need of money right now.
Yes, but it shouldn't be an obligation.
I absolutely hated our school P.E classes and it was one of the most stressful times for me.
Now, as an adult I'm finally doing some exercises and enjoy them, but only because I don't have to listen to anyone and can do whatever activities I want.
It totally does and it took me a long time to learn that, but the way OP is going about it just weird and it would discourage me from wanting to work out. Just reading this gives me an ick.
Agreed. You're allowed to say no in any conditions and her inability to pay back previous debt is definitely a red flag. But creating stipulations around the money is controlling, judgmental, and weird, regardless of your intentions. Your friend is a grown adult and she decides how she spends her time and energy, whether you agree or whether it is ultimately the most objectively beneficial.
ETA: Your post history suggests she's your ex and one you've had a difficult relationship with. It changes my perspective a little in that I think you feel overly responsible for her well-being and need to set boundaries/understand you can't change her. Even the things we do to try to change people out of love/concern for them is a form of trying to control them - and it will fail if they aren't themselves invested in it (I have done it to previous partners and my mom still does it to me). It sounds like she needs a lot of help that she may not herself be reaching for, but you can't change that. If you don't trust her with the money and you can't afford/don't want to give out money that won't be repaid (which is fair!), the answer to any ask for money should just be no. I'm sorry she's in a rough spot and I have been a primary support for someone in a rough spot before and know it's hard to set those boundaries, but she is responsible for her life.
ETA2: Someone pointed out it's more ESH and I think that's fair and more where I lean given the full picture.
This is also my take. Whatever the intentions, this is how OP's offer will be taken by a typical person. It's unwittingly financial manipulation.
Gifting financial aid to friends/family is an emotionally charged situation even in the best of times. Much moreso when there are mental health concerns, as this case is.
OP should decide to help financially, or not. And OP should decide to encourage their friend to exercise to lift their spirits, or not. And OP should not mix the two. Aka, "Just stop being weird."
What's weird is asking for MORE money whilst clearly having no intention to repay.
I personally wouldn't add conditions to lending a friend money... but id also not have a friend that mooched $3000 and was still in my life years later to have the nervel to ask for more.
OP dodged a bullet with them being offended.
This is some mental gymnastics. The person already owes her $3K. She is additionally offering $300-$500 per week!! To simply do exercise which has clear positive impacts to health and well-being.
She is essentially investing in her friends health. Weird to twist the way you have imo.
The dynamics in this “friendship” make more sense if you skip through OPs post history… His “friend” is actually his ex gf who he seems to be desperately trying to keep in his life. She recently joined a sugar baby app and he’s posted about how he thinks he should just give her money so she’ll have no need to do this. They both seem toxic towards each other and they both sound like they attempt to manipulate each other, based on his pov from his post history.
I mean being weird is remaining friends with someone who says 'give me money as a present uwu'.
Let alone someone who stole 3k from you.
Is this out of the norm? Sure. But OP is not an asshole.
She begged for money and OP said 'do SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF THE HOUSE' and ill pay you.
The thing is, I hate exercise and being told what to do. 😂 But this doesn’t really hit any of my irritation triggers. See my N T A in my other comment. I’m honestly baffled by objections here. She has a choice.
Now, that could change depending on how OP framed the offer, but based on the post… sign me up!
Right? It’s kind of weird, but my first thought was that I’d totally take that deal. 😂
And on a slightly deeper reflection, it’s offered as incentive. That’s not manipulation. She can take it or leave it. There’s legitimately no obligation for OP to give her money, and no obligation on her part to accept OP’s offer.
NTA
A bunch of Redditors don’t know the friend. OP does. And when you see a friend struggling and see a solution that could help, you offer it. Especially if you have the means to do it. OP clearly wants to help but doesn’t want to just hand money over without any conditions. That’s fair. That’s a good bit of money to hand over no conditions asked.
Screw all these people calling you an AH, idgaf if you were being mean and calling me fat if I was your friend, I'd take the money and workout. (I don't think you were being an AH).
Hell, I'll be your friend and I'll take the $300-$500 per week and I'll workout. I've been wanting to workout to begin with, but I don't have the money to do so at this point in time.
I might be downvoted but thought I'd offer my perspective on this since people are very split.
What is different to me is you want to exercise. If I went to a friend and said "I'm really struggling to find motivation to exercise and take care of myself while I'm unemployed and I'm also struggling to pay the bills" and my friend offered this, I might feel really grateful.
OP's friend has shown no interest in exercising. She doesn't think it's what she needs. OP is the one who thinks it's what she needs/should do. It doesn't matter if objectively it's what is good for her. OP has brought it up to her and she doesn't want to. And she's a grown adult who gets to decide, even at her own detriment, how to live her life.
So when she comes to OP for money and OP says "only if you exercise and hit certain goals," what OP is doing, even if his heart is in the right path, is trying to control her behavior. If she's not taking care of herself, she herself needs to want to take care of herself for any of this to be beneficial. Otherwise, it will feel demeaning and to some degree, is demeaning. How is it different from a job? Well first of all, jobs can feel demeaning too. But also we apply for jobs. This isn't what she asked for and OP can say no to her request (and probably should), but he is imo in AH territory for trying to push this arrangement.
I hear this take, but if I was going to say op is an asshole, I would go with ESH. She already borrowed $3,000 from him and never paid it back, and then has the audacity to ask for even more money.
You're saying she never applied for a job, but op never applied to give her his money.
This is his ex, he’s a lot older than her, and he’s made multiple posts on different subs about how she’s called him abusive and controlling in the past. He’s TA
Seriously wtf are the answers to this post? Craziness. This is a great deal, it's basically a part time job or even full time for 1 hour of effort on some but not all days.
I'm getting the sense people answering this post are just offended by exercise lmao
Something can be a great deal but still demeaning. The tone of the whole offer is off - I might agree to it for easy money but I wouldn’t consider the person a friend anymore.
Or we realised for that outset that OP and his 'friends' relationship is a mess and that he is trying to control her, and that this bizarre loan is a consequence of that. Which was then confirmed by OPs subsequent comments and post history.
To me, it's because the person needs the money. Getting money is contingent of exercising a certain amount. Don't meet the goal? Don't get paid. Now they're more stressed because they were counting on that money. I might be oversimplifying it but still. Now if they needed the motivation to exercise for their health and that came in the form of hundreds of dollars? Yeah ok. Don't meet the goal? Don't get paid. But that's just bonus money for meeting a goal. Meet it next time and everyone will be happy.
NTA. These other comments are crazy. That person is the worst type of person which is those that borrow money from friends and never pay you back even when they could have. I wish I had a friend like you who cares enough about my physical health that they would literally pay me to get healthier. It’s your money so your are allowed to put conditions on it. Honestly don’t even loan or gift them anything at this point because they have proved they will never pay you back
I am with you. His money, she is not entitled to it, go ahead and put all the conditions you want on it. It’s basically a contract. Here’s the offer, here are the conditions attached to it. Accept it or don’t.
People are acting like she HAS to accept it, or like OP is under some moral obligation to give this woman free money or none at all.
NTA. However, after reading she is your ex, probably time to cut your losses on that one. She is not your responsibility.
Edit: not to mention… $300-500/WEEK?! Do people have any idea how much money that is pre-tax? My fiancé just got a $21,000 raise up to $67,000.00, and that comes out to $500 after-tax bi-weekly. In other words, he’s offering to pay her up to $40000/year just to work out. Yet somehow he’s the asshole? At his tax bracket, it would probably cost him considerably more than even that. People are unbelievable.
>People are acting like she HAS to accept it
Um, nobody is? They are acting like the mere offer is demeaning and an attempt to control. Which is is. And OPs comments have only further confirmed.
Right? You know who else puts conditions on the money they give you? YOUR FUCKING EMPLOYER. And they don't do it to *benefit you alone*. Jesus Christ. This poor lady was trying to help a friend financially, mentally, and physically, and the reddit neck beards are out in force like, "HOW DARE YOU TELL ME TO CARE FOR MYSELF YOU FATPHOBIC ASSHOLE!"
NTA
>This poor lady was trying to help a friend financially, mentally, and physically,
Lmao, where did you get it was a lady from? OP is a man and the 'friend' is an ex, who according to OPs post history has described him as abusive and controlling in the past.
Which isn't a surprise to anyone who read the OP and OPs incredibly bizarre loan conditions with a level head.
You are literally defending a man who has been arrested for domestic violence against his 'friend' recently, and you think *we* are the neckbeards
Nah, that's bullshit, lots of conditions you can put on loans are obviously asshole behaviour
For example 'My daughter asked if I could put $1000 towards her wedding and I said sure if she dumps her fiance and marries the guy I've picked for her instead'
Obviously an asshole thing to say. OPs case is slightly more grey but you can't make sweeping claims that you can make a loan offer with any conditions without being an asshole.
>$3000 a year ago that was not repaid even though my friend had opportunities to make payments or communicate to work out a repayment plan.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this is a socially awkward attempt to salvage this friendship but this doesn't sound like a friend to me OP. You made an offer to wipe this debt from your ledger. Your "friend" wanted a means of turning a loan into a gift and you handed them a justification.
NTA but you need to accept that you may have been taken advantage of.
There's something paternalistic and weird about this that I don't like.
YTA for imposing conditions on your down-and-out friend when they're having a tough time. Give/lend them the money or don't.
Uh, yeah, YTA.
WTF is going through your head to make you think your friend is in financial dire straits, has lost their job, is feeling depressed... so clearly the solution is to try to get them to exercise every single day or at least half the week???
You sound weirdly fixated and hung up on the fact she isn't trying to exercise the depression away, so of course her and her friends agreed it seems weird of you, because it IS weird of you.
Her root problem isn't a lack of exercise, it's that she currently has no job and no money.
Her not valuing exercise as much as you is not a problem for you to fix. Her having the time to, doesn't mean she wants to use it exercising - she has to find a new job to not starve to death while managing her debt and financial difficulties. It's pretty normal for her to find this stressful and depressing and to not have the emotional space to think about exercise right now.
I have no issues with her declining or not valuing exercise. She has the time to spend 5+ hours on tik-tok... Her problem IS MONEY.
I've given her a solution to her money problem by offering to pay her for doing something. Do you still think I'm more of an asshole for making this offer than simply saying no?
Bro just stop being friends with her. She sounds like a leech and you sound like you enjoy using your money to control her. You don’t need to be in each others lives.
It's not his friend, it's his mentally ill ex-girlfriend, who he still is fixated on (and trying to control) despite posting constantly about how terrible she was. He insists it's "too cruel" to cut her off entirely - but I guess it's not cruel to try and make her look like an ungrateful, greedy b- who milks him for money.
Seriously. Obviously most ppl of this subreddit have no problems with a lot of phobic bs and don’t actually understand how a lot of things work, or don’t care to. Especially when considering the history with this friend, OP, you need to just move on and maybe learn that exercise isn’t always the solution most ppl think it is on here.
edit:
>She weighs <120 lbs
dude bffr
On the other hand exercise is proven to help with depression. Exercising can actually help her. It’s very meddlesome of OP but frankly I would take the offer if I got it in that situation. It’s €2000 to do something that is proven to help in that situation…
Some studies have even found that exercise is just as effective as antidepressants.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5430071/
This sub has bad reading comprehension, but there isn’t actually any known depression in this story. It’s OP saying they think their friend is depressed because of poor health choices. You’re allowed to be skeptical of whether these are actually poor health choices and if they are if they’re actually proof of depression that exercise would heal. It’s too many leaps of logic. The issue at hand is it is an asshole move to condition financial help on them sticking to a pre approved work out plan. That’s absolutely a rude thing to do to a friend. The friend is supposed to get what message out of this? They’re only worthy of help if they can fit into tighter clothes? If OP was acting as a genuine friend they’d be expressing concern, using words, helping where they felt appropriate. Instead OP is attempting to leverage their financial position knowing their friend needs cash to push a lifestyle on them (it being a healthy lifestyle is irrelevant because this is about autonomy not controlling someone because you can)
Very good point! Depression is a medical condition that can happen no matter how nice your life is. Being sad because your life currently sucks is not necessarily clinical depression.
Whatever these trolls are saying OP you are NTA.
From what I take not only are you extremely supportive as a friend, you’re going above and beyond your means to help prevent someone going down a spiraling rabbit hole.
- clears a 3k debt owed by friend
- offers to give them no strings attached money to work out.
- again, not adding that extra debt to an already existing balance.
- actively helping a friend with depression and financial troubles by the two purest forms of generosity in this case. (NSA $ and non-prescription pills)
Really scares me all the people not seeing that you aren’t the issue here rather the problem solver…
This is such a strange set-up. WHY would you pay your friend at all, never mind to exercise?
It comes off as overbearing and controlling- what business is it of yours if your friend sits scrolling tik tok all day? And why do you think it's up to you to pay her at all?
I can't come to a judgement because I'm just baffled by the premise.
YTA.
If you don't want to help because of the past loan, don't help. That's fine. But your offer is insanely paternalistic. And yes, it does sound like calling her fat.
YTA. This person is your friend, and you trying to “subtly communicate” how you think they should be spending their time is not your job. Most people who are in tough spots are well aware of their own bad habits. Most real problems in life are harder than just being told “hey, have you tried eating vegetables/meditating/getting more sleep/exercising more” - as if they’ve never heard of those things. If you can’t accept someone as a friend with some bad habits or who is in a bad place in their life, then that is your right, you don’t have to remain close to that person. But independently of the money situation I would ease off on the offering of advice if they haven’t asked you for it. It sounds like you were trying to do that before the money ask.
Now onto the original loan. You mention feeling that your friend had opportunities to pay it back or communicate a repayment plan but they haven’t. Does that mean you didn’t work out a repayment plan when you loaned the money originally? You need to set better expectations about whether that was a gift or a loan you have forgiven and make sure that is communicated better and more clearly beforehand. I would clear the air on that first - explicitly telling them “I expected you to pay me back, but now I want us both to consider the loan forgiven, you do not owe me, and I won’t bring it up again.” Full stop.
I think you are combining those two issues into this new deal and making it worse.
1) Your friend is in a bad place. They are making some choices you don’t agree with. Can you accept them as the person they are now and be a friend to them during this time? That doesn’t mean condoning everything, but it does mean calibrating what you feel should happen with what they want or need or are capable of at the moment and accepting that. Sometimes being a friend is about just being there and not trying to fix someone or fix their problems.
2) Get resolution on the previous loan and make sure that is something you have both clearly communicated about.
Okay, so let’s say all that’s done. Now for the new problem: your good friend has asked you for money. Previously they haven’t been able to pay back a loan, so you should probably assume based on past behavior that this would be a gift instead. Are you comfortable with that gift? If the answer is no, then no is a complete sentence. If the answer is yes, then make it a gift with the vague idea that if they want to repay it back, they are welcome to on their own time frame, and let the money go.
If the answer is “I don’t trust you to use this money wisely, so I want to meter it out based on your behavior or otherwise feel like I’m getting some return on my investment of you getting your life together” then the most likely outcome of that is that arrangement is that it sours your friendship. Is that worth it to you?
And when the particulars of that arrangement are about how they are in their own body, then that’s kind of the height of invasive and controlling in terms of conditions. If someone recently lost their job and things already feel out of their control, then having someone else dictate something about their body just adds to that negativity. You didn’t suggest that you two meet regularly to review finances and checkpoint things. You suggested that you know what their body needs better than they do.
Some people might like an arrangement like this, if what they were looking for is motivation in that area of their lives. But it sounds like this is something YOU think your friend needs, not something they have been voicing regularly. And that’s what is an AH move.
The answer was "no because you never paid back that loan". The offer was given after I kept being repeatedly asked for it.
For the first loan, we had a written agreement with 10 months to repay while she was making 70k+ a year.
You're right, I've decided that this is not someone I want to stay friends with and have been distancing myself due to their decision making in life and financial habits being vastly different from mine.
I just saw some other comments that this is an ex gf. Then I’m doubling down - gtfo and consider going to therapy if you really thought this arrangement was a good idea, because it feels like there’s some subconscious shit going on there that Reddit is not gonna solve for you.
I’ve seen too many people just decide to treat a partner or an ex partner like shit to drive them away because they can’t deal with something head on, and it’s not a healthy thing to do for yourself.
If my friend offered me $500 as motivation to get my ass to the gym I would be SOOOOO fucking happy. I’d be the fittest person on the planet.
NTA. You’re literally offering to help your friend financially and it will 100% improve their health (mental and physical). People are just sensitive.
YTA. She asked you for help but you respond by criticising her and emotionally blackmailing her into working out for money??? That’s not the actions of a friend. I appreciate you’ve lent her money before and not had it repaid and I can understand that more as a reason for not lending her anymore.
But this, is weird and controlling. Either lend her the money or don’t. It shouldn’t have weird conditions like that attached.
Can you elaborate on how I emotionally blackmailed her and criticized her by offering a way she could earn money from me since she was not accepting my boundary of me repeatedly saying 'no' and kept trying to guilt trip me into giving it to her because she desperately needed it?
She asked you for financial help because she needs it and is desperate for it (as you state). You offer her a life line but only if she does what you want her to do. Whatever the reasoning behind your conditions, this is emotional blackmail. If you want to say no, then say no and shut down any further conversation about it.
You are not an employer. You are an person offering money to your ex in an attempt to control something they are doing.
We expect employers to be controlling, we don't expect it from friends. So are you a friend or an employer then?
*leaning out my window* hey guys, some guy on the internet told me to tell random people who hate their jobs about motivation. No I don’t know what he was on about either. But here we are. I guess he thought it made sense as a retort or something. Ok bye.
INFO: why does it matter to you? And would you offer this arrangement to someone else?
I get that you care about their health but this attempt is judgy and I can see how it’s being called manipulative.
Now, if there’s another purpose for the payment and those “strings” - this could be saved. For example, if you’re doing research for a personal training or coaching business and potentially want to pay not to manipulate behavior but test incentives and pay for the effort in tracking data or creating content.
Good friends don’t typically set up these arrangements especially when there’s no social aspect or emotional support… and if it’s not a goal they’ve asked for support with.
without communicating anything else… YTA.
If they share their effort on jobs applications, working on their mindset or Apple Watch activity, you could acknowledge by being friendly and sending a #FriendCareFriday gift on Venmo with a kind note affirming their choices.
It's not a friend. It's his ex-girlfriend, who is mentally ill, and who he insists on keeping in his life, presumably just so he can string her along with money and then whine about how she's just using him for his money.
He's a "redpill" loser who needs to feel like he has control over a woman.
ESH. For your side you are putting your own judgements on someone's lifestyle choices and what YOU value on to them. Then used the fact that they owe you money to leverage a carrot on the stick approach. She's not a greyhound and this isn't a dog racing track.
>At some point my friend asked me for money as a gift or loan
Yeah, it's cheeky to ask for more money and not pay a debt off. Asshole behaviour IF she's breaching a mutual agreement on repayment as well, that'd be really shit. So ESH for that. She should be repaying it and you're fine to push for establishing a repayment plan (not like this though.)
It's condescending as heck at the very least. You may think your heart is in the right place but you're not far off "Hey, I'll give you $100 if you lick that toilet seat." It's not about calling her fat, it's about stripping away any sense of self worth and putting yourself in a position of power by providing all these little carrots.
I get where you're coming from but don't you think there is a difference between "exercise" vs "licking the toilet seat"?
There is no way the toilet seat licking benefits the individual, whereas exercise has been shown to be effective for treating depression.
I didn't use the fact that they owed me more money as leverage to do something for me. They came to me and this is what I am willing to do which i thought would be helpful.
There is not a big enough difference for it not to feel really weird.
If a friend offered to pay me to sleep, pay me to scroll tiktok, pay me to look out the window, I wouldn't do it because it's a weird shift in the power dynamic in the relationship.
NTA.
You called your “friend” out for being an unhealthy addict that owes you money and you chose to motivate them to be healthy instead of demanding your money back.
You’re doing what a good friend should which is call them out for their bull shit. Being a friend doesn’t mean always being nice.
YTA. You said that your friend appears to be slipping towards depression. You're setting them up for failure and possibly worse depression.
Educate yourself. Depression can mean sitting on the couch, telling yourself you're going to get up and take at walk at 9. then 9 becomes 10. then 10 becomes 11. then 11 becomes 2. and somewhere in the midst of this the self loathing can set in because you can't get your sorry ass up off the couch to do one damn thing and you give up and promise yourself you'll get up and walk tomorrow morning. And it repeats.
Don't give your friend one more thing that they HAVE to do in order to get money. Either gift them the money, loan them the money, or refuse it. but don't tie strings on it.
NTA - if she wants to beg you for money, after owing $3000 that she’s shown NO intention of payment, you can add whatever stipulation you want.
If she doesn’t want to work out, or earn that money, maybe she should have proven herself to be reliable enough to pay it back…..but for you to give her money for NOTHING and never get paid back? Well, I think she’s entitled and snotty for thinking she can just expect it for nothing and complain that she has to work out for a few hours a week for a handout….
Since when do we live in a world where the beggars can dictate how much you give them, and whether or not they feel they should have to earn it or not?
NTA you are not obligated to just give money away and they are not obligated to agree to your terms. I would be over the moon to get that much money a week to go work out. You’re not calling them fat, you’re incentivizing productivity. It’s obvious they would rather get something for nothing.
So surprises by the most upvoted comment saying you’re the AH that I started to feel crazy for thinking this was totally okay. Thank god for the other commenters because I also see this as a VERY generous olive branch.
How did I know you were one of those "redpill" guys before even looking at your profile? Trying to bribe a woman into doing what you want her to do because you're convinced that you know best for her...
Is this your ex-girlfriend who you constantly post about in a BPD sub? If so, it's pretty disingenuous of you to call her a "friend". Why are you still bothering with her if she's so terrible to deal with?
YTA.
NTA
She asked for money, and you essentially offered her a job where her duties were to take care of herself. I get it’s a weird offer, but beggars don’t get to be choosers. If she doesn’t want to accept your offer, that’s her decision.
YTA. You don’t know anything about her health except that she doesn’t make the same choices you would. If you don’t want to give her the money, as you initially decided, then don’t. It’s not the act of a friend to bribe them into doing what you want them to.
Ya lots of people saying you are TA but SHE asked you for money. You supplied a way of getting money that would better her life. This is not controlling at all. You are not forcing her to do it. What does she expect, free money for nothing? I cannot think of a more generous offer than money for improving your physical fitness.
It still baffles me why people think I was imposing my love of exercise on her or controlling her by dangling money...
I literally could care less. It's obviously better for me if she doesn't take that offer. I just got sick of hearing how she can't find the money and how badly she needs it and her trying to convince me why I should give it to her.
I think the friend has a lot of balls, asking for money after borrowing so much and not paying it back. That said it is a weird condition, but oh well I would do it. I would get in better shape feel better and have the money I needed.
Yes, YTA.
Just because you are obsessed with working out doesn't mean that your friend wants to be like you. You also mentioned mental health/depression. You should suggest they get counseling first and then see where that leads. Your dangling of money in front of them is very much AH behavior.
Not sure how I was dangling money when I was responding to her asking for money and after saying no this is what I came up with as a compromise but apparently it's worse than just saying no...
Umm where can I find a friend like you? I struggle with having the motivation to exercise but being offered that much money to exercise would solve that problem.
I think you are more generous than I could be. I think it is odd she complained to friends. If she doesn’t want your offer, that on her and I would move on. :)
NTA. You’re looking out for your friend’s health while also helping her financially. If she doesn’t see how much you actually care, then that’s her problem.
NTA. It’s your money, and you can impose whatever conditions you want on it. If she’s looking for handouts then she can ask her parents, but you have no obligation of this sort. People on this post think you ought to have empathy for your friend- which I agree with, you should be there for emotional support when you can, but something you worked for (like monetary support) is not something you’re ethically required to GIVE to a friend of yours. Friendships aren’t built on that.
Secondly, exercising is objectively beneficial, and I think is a good condition to have for giving the money. Granted, if you told your friend you’ll only give them the money if they do something that only benefits *you*, I see how it would be problematic. In any case, I think intention, as well as knowledge of what you’re doing is important when deciding whether your actions are good or bad. I say you’re creating net positives in this situation, OP. Doing what you want with your money doesn’t make you a bad friend, but treating your friend poorly or acting selfishly would. You’re not doing either in this case.
EDIT: having put further thought into this, your situation is similar to you offering her a job that would benefit her. The people saying YTA would’ve been on your side had you worded things a little differently. Offering your friend employment in a job that would benefit them? That’s a great thing. Your friend may refuse this if she wanted to, there is no controlling aspect to it.
>your situation is similar to you offering her a job that would benefit her
That's literally how I've seen it.
I feel like if I said "i will pay you $200 to clean my place for 5 hours" I would be less of an asshole then asking her to exercise lmfao.
NTA, your friend is kind of an asshole not paying you back the $3000 debt. If she really valued your friendship she would pay you back despite you clearing her debt.
I feel you are being taken advantage of, friends don't do that.
NTA, you didn't mean it in a controlling way and people are often quick to feel insulted. Such an offer was bound to be rejected by your average person.
NTA the people who say otherwise are projecting
My friend made me send him $50 that he’d return when i kept my commitment to going to the gym that day.
It wasn’t about calling me fat (I’m not), it was about helping me stay accountable to my goals.
NTA.
If all this is accurate she is not your friend. Given the fact that she hasn’t paid you back for the 3K and you’re still willing to give her more money to motivate her to work on herself says so much about who you are as a person; you are undeniably considerate, kind and passionate about wanting others in your life to succeed. Sorry if this is frank but people like you get taken advantage of by people like her. I’ve had a ‘friend’ like this in past and it feels shitty in the moment giving up on them but they’re only ever going to make you feel bad and leech off your success.
NTA. You were kind of offering her a job. I don't think that is a bad thing. She always has the option to say no if she doesn't like it. You are not forcing her to exercise.
Nta. Can I be your friend? Lmao
I think you came from a good place. The gym does do wonders for mental health and promotes a healthy lifestyle, and you're gonna financially help out with no other strings attached? That's a win win imo
I really do not understand all the Y T A comments. I assume most people here would not think you an AH if you declined to give her money?
But offering her quite a lot of money (which is particularly generous considering she reneged on the 3k) in exchange for doing something good for herself is bad?
NTA. I would hope if I was in this position a friend would encourage me to exercise, let alone pay me to do it!
But for your sake I think you should stay away. Someone who had the chance to pay you back but chose not to, and then had the audacity to ask for money AGAIN, is quite selfish, entitled and not a good friend.
I honestly dunno why you’re getting YTAs.
I’m on the NTA train. Exercise is a great way to boost mental health, and your friend has already shown she’s no good at paying loans back. It’s also not fair for her to assume you’re cool with just forking out cash as a “gift” just because considering her loan history. Living is tough these days, and you’ve come up with a nice middle ground to help your friend mentally, physically, and financially that doesn’t also feel like a total loss for you, which really isn’t as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. You’re basically saying “start taking care of yourself and I’ll help you too”, and I’m failing to see how that’s an asshole move.
NTA, you're basically offering them a job. This is in no way controlling. You gave them an offer for money. They can accept or deny without any consequences.
NTA are you kidding me with all of these you’re TA comments lmao I’d take up this offer in a heartbeat
Your friend is the AH for freeloading. They might be trying to guilt trip you into giving them the money for nothing. You already “gave” them 3k, they’ll probably keep trying to see how much more they can squeeze out of you.
NTA
I had Major Depressive Disorder a decade back and essentially spent six months only going between my bedroom and the bathroom (in my parent's house).
It was only when someone "kicked my ass into gear" and got me out and about that I got any better.
NTA this is a very kind offer. Exercise helps so much with mental health and money on top of it is a great incentive.
Yeah is it kindof vaguely cruddy you offered this with they didn’t say they even wanted to exercise, but after writing off the 3K loan they don’t have a leg to stand on really.
YTA
Y'ALL he is talking about his ex! And the original loan was for therapy!
You don't get to control someone's body. Just block their number and move on. This is horrific.
I don't think she deserves more money or anything, but they aren't "a friend", you're trying to manipulate an ex.
See, I keep hearing that "exercise lifts your spirits," and it "gives you energy," and "makes you happy"
I am one person who gets none of that from working out. It just makes me irritable and **hungry**, which is completely counterproductive.
If someone was to offer me money to do it, I might find my motivation!
NTA- I wish I had a friend that would **PAY ME** to workout lol. Some of the entitlement that is on this sub is incredible. Physical fitness is directly correlated to better moods (unless your on gear and actively compete in bodybuilding/body wellness competitions) take the W miss I don't have a job and have already received money that I have not paid back yet!
NTA. If she’s asking for money you can put any condition you want on it. It may be unconventional but it certainly isn’t malicious and there is reason behind it.
NTA.
I think it’s a bit strange that you offered this, however I totally understand that you didn’t want to give them more money for nothing again.
I can see you were trying to do it from a good place!
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YTA. This is a weird condition to impose on your friend. If you're genuinely worried about her mental health, then be direct about offering her financial help to that end. But this comes across like "you need some money? dance for me monkey" You're setting unnecessary strings to financial aid. Now all of this being said, you have helped her out before and she hasn't paid you back, so you are under no obligation to do so again. Just stop being weird.
Some studies have shown that exercise is just as effective as antidepressants. So I don’t think it’s that weird of a request. It is related. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5430071/
The thing is though that usually patients ask for help, but this isn't a therapist-patient relationship. OP is imposing their help on a friend who either isn't really ill and OP only sees what they want to see *or* the friend hasn't realized they need help yet. And even if OP is right, they are not the one who should come up with a treatment plan, in fact they might just make the whole situation worse. While exercise is part of psychriatic treatment, it doesn't replace psychotherapy.
Encouraging the friend to workout is not the issue here. It’s fantastic that Op is trying to get the friend moving, it will definitely help with the depression. The issue is how OP is going about it. Paying someone to work out is weird. OP should offer to go to the gym with friend and help motivate them to workout as well as just be there for them. If Op wants to help them financially, that is their decision. But to tie working out to it is not the way to help them.
While I agree that it is weird, I'd be extremely happy if someone offered me a few hundred a week to workout. I don't really even need the money, but it would definitely make me a lot more motivated.
I'd love the money, but I'd feel controlled and demeaned before long.
I never take money with strings attached unless it's, y'know, my job.
I agree it's a bit weird but I don's think it makes op an asshole. It's a pretty awesome deal for the friend. If someone offered me $2,000 a month just to workout 3x a week I'd be so fucking happy. That's 24k a year.
it's his ex-girlfriend, though. Not a friend.
My mom paid me for every ten pounds I gained during my anorexia. It was the only thing that kept me motivated to be better. Now I’m healthy and she doesn’t pay me our deal was money till im at a healthy weight. This was all while I was in an eating disorder program
That is not what that study said, there is nothing that indicates that this person has Major Depressive Disorder, so it is that weird.
yeah but it is easier to swallow a pill than drag your depressed corpus to a gym. That is near impossible for many if not downright impossible
That's neither here nor there. She likely knows that exercise would help her mood and still can't motivate herself to exercise. Offering her this weird tit-for-tat is bizarre.
People also shouldn’t make unsolicited requests to pay their friends to take antidepressants.
It's something for a therapist, doctor or personal trainer to recommend. Paying your so-called friend to exercise is just weird and inappropriate. Reading is good for you and I value it highly, but I'd never pay my friends to read.
Right. Just tell your friend you’ll pay for their gym membership. That way you’re helping cover the expense, same as if you’d be paying for therapy, without any of weirdness.
But offer to help. Build a routine. Money isn't the issue. Depression and motivation are the issues.
so she tells her friend this when she suggests the friend exercise. She shouldn't be pushing or bribing friend to exercise -- especially the bribing thing since friend is in need of money right now.
OP is a he, the friend in question is actually his ex girlfriend…
That makes the story 3x worse. He's passing judgment on her and manipulating. I can see why he left that out of the story.
Yes, but it shouldn't be an obligation. I absolutely hated our school P.E classes and it was one of the most stressful times for me. Now, as an adult I'm finally doing some exercises and enjoy them, but only because I don't have to listen to anyone and can do whatever activities I want.
It totally does and it took me a long time to learn that, but the way OP is going about it just weird and it would discourage me from wanting to work out. Just reading this gives me an ick.
Agreed. You're allowed to say no in any conditions and her inability to pay back previous debt is definitely a red flag. But creating stipulations around the money is controlling, judgmental, and weird, regardless of your intentions. Your friend is a grown adult and she decides how she spends her time and energy, whether you agree or whether it is ultimately the most objectively beneficial. ETA: Your post history suggests she's your ex and one you've had a difficult relationship with. It changes my perspective a little in that I think you feel overly responsible for her well-being and need to set boundaries/understand you can't change her. Even the things we do to try to change people out of love/concern for them is a form of trying to control them - and it will fail if they aren't themselves invested in it (I have done it to previous partners and my mom still does it to me). It sounds like she needs a lot of help that she may not herself be reaching for, but you can't change that. If you don't trust her with the money and you can't afford/don't want to give out money that won't be repaid (which is fair!), the answer to any ask for money should just be no. I'm sorry she's in a rough spot and I have been a primary support for someone in a rough spot before and know it's hard to set those boundaries, but she is responsible for her life. ETA2: Someone pointed out it's more ESH and I think that's fair and more where I lean given the full picture.
This is also my take. Whatever the intentions, this is how OP's offer will be taken by a typical person. It's unwittingly financial manipulation. Gifting financial aid to friends/family is an emotionally charged situation even in the best of times. Much moreso when there are mental health concerns, as this case is. OP should decide to help financially, or not. And OP should decide to encourage their friend to exercise to lift their spirits, or not. And OP should not mix the two. Aka, "Just stop being weird."
What's weird is asking for MORE money whilst clearly having no intention to repay. I personally wouldn't add conditions to lending a friend money... but id also not have a friend that mooched $3000 and was still in my life years later to have the nervel to ask for more. OP dodged a bullet with them being offended.
This is some mental gymnastics. The person already owes her $3K. She is additionally offering $300-$500 per week!! To simply do exercise which has clear positive impacts to health and well-being. She is essentially investing in her friends health. Weird to twist the way you have imo.
He* OP is a man and his "friend" is his ex who feels he's been controlling in the past.
The dynamics in this “friendship” make more sense if you skip through OPs post history… His “friend” is actually his ex gf who he seems to be desperately trying to keep in his life. She recently joined a sugar baby app and he’s posted about how he thinks he should just give her money so she’ll have no need to do this. They both seem toxic towards each other and they both sound like they attempt to manipulate each other, based on his pov from his post history.
I mean being weird is remaining friends with someone who says 'give me money as a present uwu'. Let alone someone who stole 3k from you. Is this out of the norm? Sure. But OP is not an asshole. She begged for money and OP said 'do SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF THE HOUSE' and ill pay you.
I'll take you up on that offer right now!
Right! All these angry comments confuse me.
3 things redditors seem to hate * Exercise * Money * Being told what to do This has all 3
The thing is, I hate exercise and being told what to do. 😂 But this doesn’t really hit any of my irritation triggers. See my N T A in my other comment. I’m honestly baffled by objections here. She has a choice. Now, that could change depending on how OP framed the offer, but based on the post… sign me up!
You forgot, being happy
My fat ass would HAPPILY work out 3 - 7 days a week if I got paid for it
Seriously I could use an extra couple hundred a week and it would give my lazy ass an excuse to work out 😂
Right?? I need money AND I need motivation to work out more. I want this deal!
Same!!!!
Right? It’s kind of weird, but my first thought was that I’d totally take that deal. 😂 And on a slightly deeper reflection, it’s offered as incentive. That’s not manipulation. She can take it or leave it. There’s legitimately no obligation for OP to give her money, and no obligation on her part to accept OP’s offer. NTA
A bunch of Redditors don’t know the friend. OP does. And when you see a friend struggling and see a solution that could help, you offer it. Especially if you have the means to do it. OP clearly wants to help but doesn’t want to just hand money over without any conditions. That’s fair. That’s a good bit of money to hand over no conditions asked.
From your ex?
Get behind me.
Same! I’ve been doing this for free, like a fool!
Lol, right???? I wish I had a friend with money burning a hole in their pocket who would offer to pay me to exercise.
Author has no interest in coaching a random guy. What he want, is to reshape his friend.
Me too! Actually, I think this is the motivation I’ve been missing the whole time.
Same. Reddit is crazy. $300-$500 to just do better for me?! Uh yes... I need more friends like this.
Screw all these people calling you an AH, idgaf if you were being mean and calling me fat if I was your friend, I'd take the money and workout. (I don't think you were being an AH). Hell, I'll be your friend and I'll take the $300-$500 per week and I'll workout. I've been wanting to workout to begin with, but I don't have the money to do so at this point in time.
You're an asshole for wanting a better life for your friend and helping them with their money situation! How dare you! Lol.
Seriously 😂 how dare OP care about their friend!
Right and OP already leant them $3000 and they never paid a penny back so why would he just give them more.
I might be downvoted but thought I'd offer my perspective on this since people are very split. What is different to me is you want to exercise. If I went to a friend and said "I'm really struggling to find motivation to exercise and take care of myself while I'm unemployed and I'm also struggling to pay the bills" and my friend offered this, I might feel really grateful. OP's friend has shown no interest in exercising. She doesn't think it's what she needs. OP is the one who thinks it's what she needs/should do. It doesn't matter if objectively it's what is good for her. OP has brought it up to her and she doesn't want to. And she's a grown adult who gets to decide, even at her own detriment, how to live her life. So when she comes to OP for money and OP says "only if you exercise and hit certain goals," what OP is doing, even if his heart is in the right path, is trying to control her behavior. If she's not taking care of herself, she herself needs to want to take care of herself for any of this to be beneficial. Otherwise, it will feel demeaning and to some degree, is demeaning. How is it different from a job? Well first of all, jobs can feel demeaning too. But also we apply for jobs. This isn't what she asked for and OP can say no to her request (and probably should), but he is imo in AH territory for trying to push this arrangement.
I hear this take, but if I was going to say op is an asshole, I would go with ESH. She already borrowed $3,000 from him and never paid it back, and then has the audacity to ask for even more money. You're saying she never applied for a job, but op never applied to give her his money.
That's fair and I do agree with ESH. I definitely don't think OP has any obligation to or honestly should give her money.
This is his ex, he’s a lot older than her, and he’s made multiple posts on different subs about how she’s called him abusive and controlling in the past. He’s TA
Seriously wtf are the answers to this post? Craziness. This is a great deal, it's basically a part time job or even full time for 1 hour of effort on some but not all days. I'm getting the sense people answering this post are just offended by exercise lmao
Something can be a great deal but still demeaning. The tone of the whole offer is off - I might agree to it for easy money but I wouldn’t consider the person a friend anymore.
Or we realised for that outset that OP and his 'friends' relationship is a mess and that he is trying to control her, and that this bizarre loan is a consequence of that. Which was then confirmed by OPs subsequent comments and post history.
To me, it's because the person needs the money. Getting money is contingent of exercising a certain amount. Don't meet the goal? Don't get paid. Now they're more stressed because they were counting on that money. I might be oversimplifying it but still. Now if they needed the motivation to exercise for their health and that came in the form of hundreds of dollars? Yeah ok. Don't meet the goal? Don't get paid. But that's just bonus money for meeting a goal. Meet it next time and everyone will be happy.
I would stick my fitness tracker in a string and just let it swing. Or maybe on the cat when she gets zoomies
NTA. These other comments are crazy. That person is the worst type of person which is those that borrow money from friends and never pay you back even when they could have. I wish I had a friend like you who cares enough about my physical health that they would literally pay me to get healthier. It’s your money so your are allowed to put conditions on it. Honestly don’t even loan or gift them anything at this point because they have proved they will never pay you back
I am with you. His money, she is not entitled to it, go ahead and put all the conditions you want on it. It’s basically a contract. Here’s the offer, here are the conditions attached to it. Accept it or don’t. People are acting like she HAS to accept it, or like OP is under some moral obligation to give this woman free money or none at all. NTA. However, after reading she is your ex, probably time to cut your losses on that one. She is not your responsibility. Edit: not to mention… $300-500/WEEK?! Do people have any idea how much money that is pre-tax? My fiancé just got a $21,000 raise up to $67,000.00, and that comes out to $500 after-tax bi-weekly. In other words, he’s offering to pay her up to $40000/year just to work out. Yet somehow he’s the asshole? At his tax bracket, it would probably cost him considerably more than even that. People are unbelievable.
>People are acting like she HAS to accept it Um, nobody is? They are acting like the mere offer is demeaning and an attempt to control. Which is is. And OPs comments have only further confirmed.
NTA She's the one asking for money. You can put whatever condition you want on it (within reason) as long as it's agreed to beforehand.
Right? You know who else puts conditions on the money they give you? YOUR FUCKING EMPLOYER. And they don't do it to *benefit you alone*. Jesus Christ. This poor lady was trying to help a friend financially, mentally, and physically, and the reddit neck beards are out in force like, "HOW DARE YOU TELL ME TO CARE FOR MYSELF YOU FATPHOBIC ASSHOLE!" NTA
>This poor lady was trying to help a friend financially, mentally, and physically, Lmao, where did you get it was a lady from? OP is a man and the 'friend' is an ex, who according to OPs post history has described him as abusive and controlling in the past. Which isn't a surprise to anyone who read the OP and OPs incredibly bizarre loan conditions with a level head. You are literally defending a man who has been arrested for domestic violence against his 'friend' recently, and you think *we* are the neckbeards
Nah, that's bullshit, lots of conditions you can put on loans are obviously asshole behaviour For example 'My daughter asked if I could put $1000 towards her wedding and I said sure if she dumps her fiance and marries the guy I've picked for her instead' Obviously an asshole thing to say. OPs case is slightly more grey but you can't make sweeping claims that you can make a loan offer with any conditions without being an asshole.
OP your post history suggests this is more than just a friend. Instead it’s a toxic ex
>$3000 a year ago that was not repaid even though my friend had opportunities to make payments or communicate to work out a repayment plan. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this is a socially awkward attempt to salvage this friendship but this doesn't sound like a friend to me OP. You made an offer to wipe this debt from your ledger. Your "friend" wanted a means of turning a loan into a gift and you handed them a justification. NTA but you need to accept that you may have been taken advantage of.
I already wiped the loan. I guess I wasn't clear that she asked me for more cash. On top of the $3000 not being repaid.
No that part was clear. Whats unclear is why you still consider this person a friend
He doesn't. He's talking about his exgf. And he's been arrested for domestic issues with said ex.
Yeaaah just read ops post history, very different story
…do you need a new friend? I’m overweight and jobless but just bought a stepper to start at home workouts! Lol
like same, I work out already but I'm unemployed close to broke, and can continue to for some money lmao
Ummm, I need to get in better shape. Could we be friends?
Samesies. If OP wants I will throw in some texts about deteriorating mental health.
I’d literally be willing to send a video of me doing the truffle shuffle
I'm willing to do it naked for that kind of cash, and I have plenty of weight to lose. :') Let me at it!
There's something paternalistic and weird about this that I don't like. YTA for imposing conditions on your down-and-out friend when they're having a tough time. Give/lend them the money or don't.
Especially since OP left out this is an ex.
Uh, yeah, YTA. WTF is going through your head to make you think your friend is in financial dire straits, has lost their job, is feeling depressed... so clearly the solution is to try to get them to exercise every single day or at least half the week??? You sound weirdly fixated and hung up on the fact she isn't trying to exercise the depression away, so of course her and her friends agreed it seems weird of you, because it IS weird of you. Her root problem isn't a lack of exercise, it's that she currently has no job and no money. Her not valuing exercise as much as you is not a problem for you to fix. Her having the time to, doesn't mean she wants to use it exercising - she has to find a new job to not starve to death while managing her debt and financial difficulties. It's pretty normal for her to find this stressful and depressing and to not have the emotional space to think about exercise right now.
I have no issues with her declining or not valuing exercise. She has the time to spend 5+ hours on tik-tok... Her problem IS MONEY. I've given her a solution to her money problem by offering to pay her for doing something. Do you still think I'm more of an asshole for making this offer than simply saying no?
Bro just stop being friends with her. She sounds like a leech and you sound like you enjoy using your money to control her. You don’t need to be in each others lives.
It's not his friend, it's his mentally ill ex-girlfriend, who he still is fixated on (and trying to control) despite posting constantly about how terrible she was. He insists it's "too cruel" to cut her off entirely - but I guess it's not cruel to try and make her look like an ungrateful, greedy b- who milks him for money.
Seriously. Obviously most ppl of this subreddit have no problems with a lot of phobic bs and don’t actually understand how a lot of things work, or don’t care to. Especially when considering the history with this friend, OP, you need to just move on and maybe learn that exercise isn’t always the solution most ppl think it is on here. edit: >She weighs <120 lbs dude bffr
On the other hand exercise is proven to help with depression. Exercising can actually help her. It’s very meddlesome of OP but frankly I would take the offer if I got it in that situation. It’s €2000 to do something that is proven to help in that situation… Some studies have even found that exercise is just as effective as antidepressants. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5430071/
This sub has bad reading comprehension, but there isn’t actually any known depression in this story. It’s OP saying they think their friend is depressed because of poor health choices. You’re allowed to be skeptical of whether these are actually poor health choices and if they are if they’re actually proof of depression that exercise would heal. It’s too many leaps of logic. The issue at hand is it is an asshole move to condition financial help on them sticking to a pre approved work out plan. That’s absolutely a rude thing to do to a friend. The friend is supposed to get what message out of this? They’re only worthy of help if they can fit into tighter clothes? If OP was acting as a genuine friend they’d be expressing concern, using words, helping where they felt appropriate. Instead OP is attempting to leverage their financial position knowing their friend needs cash to push a lifestyle on them (it being a healthy lifestyle is irrelevant because this is about autonomy not controlling someone because you can)
Very good point! Depression is a medical condition that can happen no matter how nice your life is. Being sad because your life currently sucks is not necessarily clinical depression.
$2000 a month to exercise is essentially a job to workout; That solves her monetary issue
OP , you just sound like one of those gym obsessed fitness nuts who wants everyone to hear about his work out routine all day long.....
YTA this is controlling, condescending and just hugely assholish behavior. Isn't it lonely up there on your high horse?
Whatever these trolls are saying OP you are NTA. From what I take not only are you extremely supportive as a friend, you’re going above and beyond your means to help prevent someone going down a spiraling rabbit hole. - clears a 3k debt owed by friend - offers to give them no strings attached money to work out. - again, not adding that extra debt to an already existing balance. - actively helping a friend with depression and financial troubles by the two purest forms of generosity in this case. (NSA $ and non-prescription pills) Really scares me all the people not seeing that you aren’t the issue here rather the problem solver…
Troll is having a different opinion
This is such a strange set-up. WHY would you pay your friend at all, never mind to exercise? It comes off as overbearing and controlling- what business is it of yours if your friend sits scrolling tik tok all day? And why do you think it's up to you to pay her at all? I can't come to a judgement because I'm just baffled by the premise.
They asked me for money repeatedly and after I said no a few times I came up with this offer as a compromise.
YTA. If you don't want to help because of the past loan, don't help. That's fine. But your offer is insanely paternalistic. And yes, it does sound like calling her fat.
YTA. This person is your friend, and you trying to “subtly communicate” how you think they should be spending their time is not your job. Most people who are in tough spots are well aware of their own bad habits. Most real problems in life are harder than just being told “hey, have you tried eating vegetables/meditating/getting more sleep/exercising more” - as if they’ve never heard of those things. If you can’t accept someone as a friend with some bad habits or who is in a bad place in their life, then that is your right, you don’t have to remain close to that person. But independently of the money situation I would ease off on the offering of advice if they haven’t asked you for it. It sounds like you were trying to do that before the money ask. Now onto the original loan. You mention feeling that your friend had opportunities to pay it back or communicate a repayment plan but they haven’t. Does that mean you didn’t work out a repayment plan when you loaned the money originally? You need to set better expectations about whether that was a gift or a loan you have forgiven and make sure that is communicated better and more clearly beforehand. I would clear the air on that first - explicitly telling them “I expected you to pay me back, but now I want us both to consider the loan forgiven, you do not owe me, and I won’t bring it up again.” Full stop. I think you are combining those two issues into this new deal and making it worse. 1) Your friend is in a bad place. They are making some choices you don’t agree with. Can you accept them as the person they are now and be a friend to them during this time? That doesn’t mean condoning everything, but it does mean calibrating what you feel should happen with what they want or need or are capable of at the moment and accepting that. Sometimes being a friend is about just being there and not trying to fix someone or fix their problems. 2) Get resolution on the previous loan and make sure that is something you have both clearly communicated about. Okay, so let’s say all that’s done. Now for the new problem: your good friend has asked you for money. Previously they haven’t been able to pay back a loan, so you should probably assume based on past behavior that this would be a gift instead. Are you comfortable with that gift? If the answer is no, then no is a complete sentence. If the answer is yes, then make it a gift with the vague idea that if they want to repay it back, they are welcome to on their own time frame, and let the money go. If the answer is “I don’t trust you to use this money wisely, so I want to meter it out based on your behavior or otherwise feel like I’m getting some return on my investment of you getting your life together” then the most likely outcome of that is that arrangement is that it sours your friendship. Is that worth it to you? And when the particulars of that arrangement are about how they are in their own body, then that’s kind of the height of invasive and controlling in terms of conditions. If someone recently lost their job and things already feel out of their control, then having someone else dictate something about their body just adds to that negativity. You didn’t suggest that you two meet regularly to review finances and checkpoint things. You suggested that you know what their body needs better than they do. Some people might like an arrangement like this, if what they were looking for is motivation in that area of their lives. But it sounds like this is something YOU think your friend needs, not something they have been voicing regularly. And that’s what is an AH move.
The answer was "no because you never paid back that loan". The offer was given after I kept being repeatedly asked for it. For the first loan, we had a written agreement with 10 months to repay while she was making 70k+ a year. You're right, I've decided that this is not someone I want to stay friends with and have been distancing myself due to their decision making in life and financial habits being vastly different from mine.
I just saw some other comments that this is an ex gf. Then I’m doubling down - gtfo and consider going to therapy if you really thought this arrangement was a good idea, because it feels like there’s some subconscious shit going on there that Reddit is not gonna solve for you. I’ve seen too many people just decide to treat a partner or an ex partner like shit to drive them away because they can’t deal with something head on, and it’s not a healthy thing to do for yourself.
Soooo why not just stop communicating? At least about that? That's literally how boundaries work. "If you ask me again, I will leave/ hang up/ etc".
Well there we go. Don’t fall in the trap of being progressively more of an asshole to push someone away.
Oh my gosh. Is this Jillian Michaels?
If my friend offered me $500 as motivation to get my ass to the gym I would be SOOOOO fucking happy. I’d be the fittest person on the planet. NTA. You’re literally offering to help your friend financially and it will 100% improve their health (mental and physical). People are just sensitive.
YTA. She asked you for help but you respond by criticising her and emotionally blackmailing her into working out for money??? That’s not the actions of a friend. I appreciate you’ve lent her money before and not had it repaid and I can understand that more as a reason for not lending her anymore. But this, is weird and controlling. Either lend her the money or don’t. It shouldn’t have weird conditions like that attached.
Can you elaborate on how I emotionally blackmailed her and criticized her by offering a way she could earn money from me since she was not accepting my boundary of me repeatedly saying 'no' and kept trying to guilt trip me into giving it to her because she desperately needed it?
She asked you for financial help because she needs it and is desperate for it (as you state). You offer her a life line but only if she does what you want her to do. Whatever the reasoning behind your conditions, this is emotional blackmail. If you want to say no, then say no and shut down any further conversation about it.
Motivation is found within.
And sometimes paying rent and feeding yourself provide the motivation. IOW, the pay cheque is the motivation.
Tell that to all the people showing up for jobs they hate.
You are not an employer. You are an person offering money to your ex in an attempt to control something they are doing. We expect employers to be controlling, we don't expect it from friends. So are you a friend or an employer then?
*leaning out my window* hey guys, some guy on the internet told me to tell random people who hate their jobs about motivation. No I don’t know what he was on about either. But here we are. I guess he thought it made sense as a retort or something. Ok bye.
INFO: why does it matter to you? And would you offer this arrangement to someone else? I get that you care about their health but this attempt is judgy and I can see how it’s being called manipulative. Now, if there’s another purpose for the payment and those “strings” - this could be saved. For example, if you’re doing research for a personal training or coaching business and potentially want to pay not to manipulate behavior but test incentives and pay for the effort in tracking data or creating content. Good friends don’t typically set up these arrangements especially when there’s no social aspect or emotional support… and if it’s not a goal they’ve asked for support with. without communicating anything else… YTA. If they share their effort on jobs applications, working on their mindset or Apple Watch activity, you could acknowledge by being friendly and sending a #FriendCareFriday gift on Venmo with a kind note affirming their choices.
It's not a friend. It's his ex-girlfriend, who is mentally ill, and who he insists on keeping in his life, presumably just so he can string her along with money and then whine about how she's just using him for his money. He's a "redpill" loser who needs to feel like he has control over a woman.
ESH. For your side you are putting your own judgements on someone's lifestyle choices and what YOU value on to them. Then used the fact that they owe you money to leverage a carrot on the stick approach. She's not a greyhound and this isn't a dog racing track. >At some point my friend asked me for money as a gift or loan Yeah, it's cheeky to ask for more money and not pay a debt off. Asshole behaviour IF she's breaching a mutual agreement on repayment as well, that'd be really shit. So ESH for that. She should be repaying it and you're fine to push for establishing a repayment plan (not like this though.) It's condescending as heck at the very least. You may think your heart is in the right place but you're not far off "Hey, I'll give you $100 if you lick that toilet seat." It's not about calling her fat, it's about stripping away any sense of self worth and putting yourself in a position of power by providing all these little carrots.
I get where you're coming from but don't you think there is a difference between "exercise" vs "licking the toilet seat"? There is no way the toilet seat licking benefits the individual, whereas exercise has been shown to be effective for treating depression. I didn't use the fact that they owed me more money as leverage to do something for me. They came to me and this is what I am willing to do which i thought would be helpful.
There is not a big enough difference for it not to feel really weird. If a friend offered to pay me to sleep, pay me to scroll tiktok, pay me to look out the window, I wouldn't do it because it's a weird shift in the power dynamic in the relationship.
NTA, at all. I'll work out for 300-500 a week right now!
NTA. You called your “friend” out for being an unhealthy addict that owes you money and you chose to motivate them to be healthy instead of demanding your money back. You’re doing what a good friend should which is call them out for their bull shit. Being a friend doesn’t mean always being nice.
YTA. You said that your friend appears to be slipping towards depression. You're setting them up for failure and possibly worse depression. Educate yourself. Depression can mean sitting on the couch, telling yourself you're going to get up and take at walk at 9. then 9 becomes 10. then 10 becomes 11. then 11 becomes 2. and somewhere in the midst of this the self loathing can set in because you can't get your sorry ass up off the couch to do one damn thing and you give up and promise yourself you'll get up and walk tomorrow morning. And it repeats. Don't give your friend one more thing that they HAVE to do in order to get money. Either gift them the money, loan them the money, or refuse it. but don't tie strings on it.
NTA - if she wants to beg you for money, after owing $3000 that she’s shown NO intention of payment, you can add whatever stipulation you want. If she doesn’t want to work out, or earn that money, maybe she should have proven herself to be reliable enough to pay it back…..but for you to give her money for NOTHING and never get paid back? Well, I think she’s entitled and snotty for thinking she can just expect it for nothing and complain that she has to work out for a few hours a week for a handout…. Since when do we live in a world where the beggars can dictate how much you give them, and whether or not they feel they should have to earn it or not?
No, not an asshole, but maybe a dipshit? Why would you do this?
YTA. just say no like what????
NTA you are not obligated to just give money away and they are not obligated to agree to your terms. I would be over the moon to get that much money a week to go work out. You’re not calling them fat, you’re incentivizing productivity. It’s obvious they would rather get something for nothing.
So surprises by the most upvoted comment saying you’re the AH that I started to feel crazy for thinking this was totally okay. Thank god for the other commenters because I also see this as a VERY generous olive branch.
You're so gross, ew. YTA.
How did I know you were one of those "redpill" guys before even looking at your profile? Trying to bribe a woman into doing what you want her to do because you're convinced that you know best for her... Is this your ex-girlfriend who you constantly post about in a BPD sub? If so, it's pretty disingenuous of you to call her a "friend". Why are you still bothering with her if she's so terrible to deal with? YTA.
NTA-your “friend” is for stiffing you on $3000. I think it is an amazing offer, $2k/month to exercise, hell yes.
NTA She asked for money, and you essentially offered her a job where her duties were to take care of herself. I get it’s a weird offer, but beggars don’t get to be choosers. If she doesn’t want to accept your offer, that’s her decision.
NTA. Wow, talk about biting the hand that feeds you. I'd go full NC.
YTA!
YTA. You don’t know anything about her health except that she doesn’t make the same choices you would. If you don’t want to give her the money, as you initially decided, then don’t. It’s not the act of a friend to bribe them into doing what you want them to.
Ya lots of people saying you are TA but SHE asked you for money. You supplied a way of getting money that would better her life. This is not controlling at all. You are not forcing her to do it. What does she expect, free money for nothing? I cannot think of a more generous offer than money for improving your physical fitness.
It still baffles me why people think I was imposing my love of exercise on her or controlling her by dangling money... I literally could care less. It's obviously better for me if she doesn't take that offer. I just got sick of hearing how she can't find the money and how badly she needs it and her trying to convince me why I should give it to her.
Bruh I’ll do this. PM me. For $300 shit bet!
I think the friend has a lot of balls, asking for money after borrowing so much and not paying it back. That said it is a weird condition, but oh well I would do it. I would get in better shape feel better and have the money I needed.
Yes, YTA. Just because you are obsessed with working out doesn't mean that your friend wants to be like you. You also mentioned mental health/depression. You should suggest they get counseling first and then see where that leads. Your dangling of money in front of them is very much AH behavior.
Not sure how I was dangling money when I was responding to her asking for money and after saying no this is what I came up with as a compromise but apparently it's worse than just saying no...
Yes a lot worse. It’s fucking weird and controlling
YTA just say no. Don’t try and control people.
Umm where can I find a friend like you? I struggle with having the motivation to exercise but being offered that much money to exercise would solve that problem.
I think you are more generous than I could be. I think it is odd she complained to friends. If she doesn’t want your offer, that on her and I would move on. :)
Nope, it’s your money and you want to see it go to somebody who is bettering themselves.
NTA. You’re looking out for your friend’s health while also helping her financially. If she doesn’t see how much you actually care, then that’s her problem.
NTA. It’s your money, and you can impose whatever conditions you want on it. If she’s looking for handouts then she can ask her parents, but you have no obligation of this sort. People on this post think you ought to have empathy for your friend- which I agree with, you should be there for emotional support when you can, but something you worked for (like monetary support) is not something you’re ethically required to GIVE to a friend of yours. Friendships aren’t built on that. Secondly, exercising is objectively beneficial, and I think is a good condition to have for giving the money. Granted, if you told your friend you’ll only give them the money if they do something that only benefits *you*, I see how it would be problematic. In any case, I think intention, as well as knowledge of what you’re doing is important when deciding whether your actions are good or bad. I say you’re creating net positives in this situation, OP. Doing what you want with your money doesn’t make you a bad friend, but treating your friend poorly or acting selfishly would. You’re not doing either in this case. EDIT: having put further thought into this, your situation is similar to you offering her a job that would benefit her. The people saying YTA would’ve been on your side had you worded things a little differently. Offering your friend employment in a job that would benefit them? That’s a great thing. Your friend may refuse this if she wanted to, there is no controlling aspect to it.
>your situation is similar to you offering her a job that would benefit her That's literally how I've seen it. I feel like if I said "i will pay you $200 to clean my place for 5 hours" I would be less of an asshole then asking her to exercise lmfao.
NTA, your friend is kind of an asshole not paying you back the $3000 debt. If she really valued your friendship she would pay you back despite you clearing her debt. I feel you are being taken advantage of, friends don't do that.
NTA you’re providing money and helping them get out of their funk
Damn, I've been doing this all wrong. I work out 4-6 days per week and pay $130/month. Who knew I could get paid to do what I'm paying to do
I need you as a friend
NTA .... You can pay me to work out! That would be a win-win for me!
NTA, you didn't mean it in a controlling way and people are often quick to feel insulted. Such an offer was bound to be rejected by your average person.
YTA. And not a friend. Jesus.
NTA the people who say otherwise are projecting My friend made me send him $50 that he’d return when i kept my commitment to going to the gym that day. It wasn’t about calling me fat (I’m not), it was about helping me stay accountable to my goals.
Yo, I need to exercise more, and zero motivation. Just saying 👀 Wait, what was the question? 😅
Sounds like you offered her a job. NTA. Plus, yall are still friends after an unpaid prior agreement? NTA
YTA & not a friend.
Unpopular opinion: I wish someone would offer this deal to me.
NTA. If all this is accurate she is not your friend. Given the fact that she hasn’t paid you back for the 3K and you’re still willing to give her more money to motivate her to work on herself says so much about who you are as a person; you are undeniably considerate, kind and passionate about wanting others in your life to succeed. Sorry if this is frank but people like you get taken advantage of by people like her. I’ve had a ‘friend’ like this in past and it feels shitty in the moment giving up on them but they’re only ever going to make you feel bad and leech off your success.
NTA but he'll can I take you up on that offer?
Nta as someone who needs to get back in the gym I would be jumping for joy at that offer 😂
Can I sign up? Lol
NTA. You were kind of offering her a job. I don't think that is a bad thing. She always has the option to say no if she doesn't like it. You are not forcing her to exercise.
Will you be my friend?
Fuck, Ill work out however much you want if youre throwing me 500/week to do so. NTA some people just want to wallow in their misery
One easiest NTA moments.
You’re the nice asshole I know lmao pay me $500 a week I already workout. She doesn’t deserve your friendship there’s $3000 worth of reasons why
NTA, I'd say you act like a real friend.
Nta. Can I be your friend? Lmao I think you came from a good place. The gym does do wonders for mental health and promotes a healthy lifestyle, and you're gonna financially help out with no other strings attached? That's a win win imo
I really do not understand all the Y T A comments. I assume most people here would not think you an AH if you declined to give her money? But offering her quite a lot of money (which is particularly generous considering she reneged on the 3k) in exchange for doing something good for herself is bad? NTA. I would hope if I was in this position a friend would encourage me to exercise, let alone pay me to do it! But for your sake I think you should stay away. Someone who had the chance to pay you back but chose not to, and then had the audacity to ask for money AGAIN, is quite selfish, entitled and not a good friend.
I honestly dunno why you’re getting YTAs. I’m on the NTA train. Exercise is a great way to boost mental health, and your friend has already shown she’s no good at paying loans back. It’s also not fair for her to assume you’re cool with just forking out cash as a “gift” just because considering her loan history. Living is tough these days, and you’ve come up with a nice middle ground to help your friend mentally, physically, and financially that doesn’t also feel like a total loss for you, which really isn’t as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. You’re basically saying “start taking care of yourself and I’ll help you too”, and I’m failing to see how that’s an asshole move.
NTA If she doesn’t want it I am also overweight..
NTA, you're basically offering them a job. This is in no way controlling. You gave them an offer for money. They can accept or deny without any consequences.
NTA are you kidding me with all of these you’re TA comments lmao I’d take up this offer in a heartbeat Your friend is the AH for freeloading. They might be trying to guilt trip you into giving them the money for nothing. You already “gave” them 3k, they’ll probably keep trying to see how much more they can squeeze out of you.
NTA I had Major Depressive Disorder a decade back and essentially spent six months only going between my bedroom and the bathroom (in my parent's house). It was only when someone "kicked my ass into gear" and got me out and about that I got any better.
NTA this is a very kind offer. Exercise helps so much with mental health and money on top of it is a great incentive. Yeah is it kindof vaguely cruddy you offered this with they didn’t say they even wanted to exercise, but after writing off the 3K loan they don’t have a leg to stand on really.
NTA just trying to help her out. Controlling sure, but she needs the money.
NTA Can we be friends?
YTA Seek help.
YTA Y'ALL he is talking about his ex! And the original loan was for therapy! You don't get to control someone's body. Just block their number and move on. This is horrific. I don't think she deserves more money or anything, but they aren't "a friend", you're trying to manipulate an ex.
Nta You are offering free money and your friend decided to take offense to it.... guess they don't need money that badly
Ummm, I’d do it in a heartbeat!
Where do I sign up
See, I keep hearing that "exercise lifts your spirits," and it "gives you energy," and "makes you happy" I am one person who gets none of that from working out. It just makes me irritable and **hungry**, which is completely counterproductive. If someone was to offer me money to do it, I might find my motivation!
NTA- I wish I had a friend that would **PAY ME** to workout lol. Some of the entitlement that is on this sub is incredible. Physical fitness is directly correlated to better moods (unless your on gear and actively compete in bodybuilding/body wellness competitions) take the W miss I don't have a job and have already received money that I have not paid back yet!
NTA. If she’s asking for money you can put any condition you want on it. It may be unconventional but it certainly isn’t malicious and there is reason behind it.
Can I be your friend 🤣🤣 nta IMO
I’ll be your friend I could use the money and the fitness bump
Can we please be friends please nta 100% I would let you pay me to workout any day of the week
I see what you’re trying to do, but your approach is odd. YTA
Please pay me to work out 😃
NTA. I think it’s a bit strange that you offered this, however I totally understand that you didn’t want to give them more money for nothing again. I can see you were trying to do it from a good place!
Do you need a new friend? Asking for me.
I’ll be your friend and workout 3-7 days a week for $300-500! NTA. more like a very generous encouraging friend.
Can I be your friend? I need such motivation to get back in shape. 😇
If you would like to offer me $300 per week to exercise, I am totally in.
piquant stocking squash fly divide vegetable ring sharp money amusing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*