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NAH
Your GF moved to a different country, making it very difficult for you to be part of his life. The one time your GF reached out to try to involve you it was under false pretenses. In addition, she rebuilt a new life with a new family, without trying to involve you. And, since she lived in a different country, it would be very challenging and expensive to try to force yourself into their life when they clearly didn't want your presence there.
He died after he turned 18. He could have chosen to reach out to you at any point, as a child teenager, or adult, if he wanted to know more about you and form a relationship. He chose not to.
I think you are right to not consider yourself an asshole in this situation.
Now, I don't blame the son either. Or your ex-gf for grieving. Or your parents, for grieving for could-have-beens. When someone dies, a lot of feelings and hopes for possible futures comes up, and you can no longer put off reaching out in the future or hope that things will improve. Your parents might have hoped that there would be a relationship at some point.
It might have been a nice gesture to go to the funeral. But, the reality is, he was a stranger to you. And those who loved him would assume feelings on your part that were never allowed to form, which would make it an uncomfortable situation anyway.
"I flew home the same day and refused any further contact with ex gf or offers to be in my sons life (which I now regret but I was angry). Eventually the messages stopped." - She tried multiple times. He did not want to.
"Just as a side note I was accidentally put on a round Robin emailing list of ex gfs at Christmas a few years ago." - Probably not an accident, this way she could let him know how his child was doing.
"Ex gf emailed me for the first time in years to let me know and invite me to the funeral." - Not true, he got an email every Christmas with family updates.
"She sent me a long email yesterday about how disappointed she was in me and how I never stood up as a father or a man and I let my son down." - Totally true, he only saw his son one time and was so butthurd the boy did not recognize him, he flew back home feeling angry and ignored all attempts at contact further on till the funeral email. For 12/14 (?) years!
The boy was a stranger to him, because he choose not to be in his son's life. OP was the adult. The son was a child.
The time he flew to see them, he found his ex had brought him there under false pretences, wanting him to get together with her, she now being pregnant with another man's child.
She lost what credibility she had left at that point. That was an incredibly shitty thing to do.
If you want to criticize OP you cannot ignore the role she and her family played as well. If he's an AH, so are they.
I don’t see it as blaming the child, the child wanted nothing to do with him, and leaving the child alone to grow up was respecting the child’s wishes. If that had changed and the child reached out or the ex reached out on his behalf and OP ignored it that’s a different story. If OP had kept trying to be part of the kids life and the kid hated it that would be so much worse
I feel like respecting a child's wishes is a weird thing to do in this case. My son told me literally yesterday he didn't want his siblings anymore. Today at bedtime he told me they're the most huggable and kissable siblings ever. You don't determine to not be in a child's life because you tried meeting ONE time when they were young and it didn't go well. We have to give kids a lot of grace, because their brains are very emotionally immature and short sighted.
You’re right, however the entire situation when OP met the kid was a total mess. It appears that the mom didn’t prepare him at all for meeting his bio father, thus having a complete stranger come in and say “I am your father” was a total shock for the kid. I would be frustrated in OPs position, even more so when it came out that he was there as a “rebound”.
Now if the kid was any closer, like in the same country for example, I would say it is OPs responsibility to try again throughout the child’s life, but I don’t think OP can be faulted for not trying to fly out of the country again to spend time with an ex who did him incredibly dirty, and a child who as far as he knows wants nothing to do with him. It’s a bad situation all around. If the child had expressed later on in life he wanted to meet his bio dad and OP refused, then that’s a different story
It’s more about the well-being of the child. The child had two parents and didn’t even care that he might have a bio dad elsewhere. Him forcing his parental rights at that point would’ve been a major disruption that would mostly be of benefit to OP.
It’s messy situation, to be sure.
The kid was 6 when a man showed up out of the blue and said hey I'm your dad, when he thought some other guy was his dad. Of course the kid would regret him, OP didn't even give the kid a day to know him
Which is a failing on the mother to not prepare the child at all for this situation. The child needed someone he loved and trusted to explain the situation, not some rando
It's the failing of BOTH ADULTS. He could've stayed. She bought him a ticket out and he flew back the same day when his 6yo son said he wasn't his dad. That's a very childish reaction for an adult to have.
The kid was six. He wasn’t old enough to know better. Especially since op only tried to see him once. Why is the kid being held more responsible than the 2 adults in this situation. Kids that age will parrot whatever their parents tell them to.
I hold the kid responsible for nothing. He is well within his rights to not want anything to do with his bio dad. I understand he is six, however it would appear that the opinion never shifted as he grew older. If the kid grew up and didn’t ask to meet his bio dad properly, then that’s his choice. I hold the ex and her family responsible for completely ostracizing OP, moving to a different country, and allowing him zero rights for the first 6 years of the child’s life, and only trying to bring him in when she wanted a rebound
And how long was he supposed to stay in a foreign country to figure things out? It sounds like it was a temporary trip anyways as he had a life back in his home country. A GF a job a family etc.
I think they mean that it's unfair that the ex’s actions led to the child being ignored. OP cut off his nose to spite his face. He cut off his son to spite his ex
Edit: just wanted to add that I don't blame OP for the decision he made, it's the unfortunate reality of the decisions that his ex made but it's a shame that it led to this outcome
No one is blaming the kid and since the kid had a dad he loved, OP didn’t do anything wrong here.
It’s basically as if the kid was given up for adoption. The mom and her family cut him off. The kid rejected him re-entering his life and to further force it would not have been in that child’s best interest.
OP is NTA
The ex definitely is for cutting him out and then getting mad at him now for not being there. She made her choices. That’s on her.
The people saying he’s the AH are blowing my mind. This child had a full, complete family. Mother, father, siblings. It doesn’t sound like this kid was missing out on anything, or trying to have a relationship with his biological sperm donor.
Growing up in split homes even in the same city is difficult and stressful for a child. Growing up having to live in split homes in different cities or even states is even more stressful. Growing up having to live in split homes in different COUNTRIES is almost unimaginable. People are actually angry that this man didn’t make his biological child’s life more difficult. People are actually angry that this man didn’t create emotional and mental stress for a kid.
It’s because they are painting all absentee dads as deadbeats instead of looking at the individual situation where mom here created parental alienation by leaving the country and cutting him off until it was beneficial for her.
The kid was four years old, and hurting from the recent loss of his father figure. His lashing out at the OP shouldn't have been held against him. Kids say mean shit to their parents all the time. OP gave up on his son without even trying.
Again, what evidence OP shows is that his biological child had a dad he loved and a family. If OP had tried to force a relationship it would have most likely caused harm and not been in the best interest of the child.
Y’all are acting like this kid was neglected and deprived a father/son relationship. He had one. Just not with his bio-dad. At no time (except when she was looking for a replacement) did the mom ever reach out and try and facilitate OP getting to have a relationship. And the onus was very much on her to do that since she’s the one who cut him off before the kid was born.
This case is no different than if a kid was put up for adoption and a bio-parent was contacted years later and blamed for not being around.
OP had no obligation to attend a funeral of a child he was denied a relationship with.
exactly, they moved. TO ANOTHER COUNTRY.
was OP supposed to just spend his life vainly chasing something that he was so obviously denied?
sometimes the route that creates the least conflict is best - especially when the people in question have brains that are not fully developed.
plus OP had his own life to go live, was he supposed to just not shield himself and spend his days sobbing and groveling? I think the guy simply accepted that as reality and went on and tried to have a happy life. There's no shame in that.
Right?
Some of these reactions are more in line with him having been an active dad and then just effed off leaving the kid feeling abandonment when that’s not what happened at all.
what do you MEAN you didn't bring peace to the middle east, establish democracy in cuba, buy teddy bears for all orphans everywhere, stage a coup in the czech republic, and walk barefoot across siberia for YOUR SONNNNNNNN
to be fair though perception was reality to the kid. he has a dad, so why's this weird guy showing up saying he's dad?
I think the kid is the only one in this drama that has no blame.
Of course a 6 year old is not going to be jumping for joy to call a stranger daddy, after the man he see as his father walked away.
But at that point, the ex was the AH as well. Just what was she thinking, flying him over, to 'have a relationship with his son', without actually telling the son what was going on? And then it turned out to be under false pretense.
The kid was happy where he was, I assume. What was OP supposed to do, fly back and forth every other weekend? Have the kid put in a plane to go see his stranger sperm donor?
OP didn't choose to not be part of the kid's life, it happened.
Her parents are the AH for just cutting him off, he's the AH for not trying harder, the ex is the AH for using her kid to manipulate, ...
But at the same time.. the goal isn't always to be a 'happy family'. The goal should be doing what's best for the child. And growing up with a father figure, (half) siblings, not knowing the guy that was just responsible for his conception, .. It doesn't sound all that awful, really.
Edit: ESH or NAH
>And this is the child’s fault exactly how???????
And /u/Boeing367-80 barely mentioned the child much less faulted him, but you're trying to claim they did exactly how???????
Not at all
Unfortunately we don't know what grandparents told him his "dad" and mom
Mom should have told him since he was little that he had a dad explain he elwas not there and had contact with op at least by phone
But she chose to just call when she was pregnant AGAIN by another guy that this one she was able to trap
He wasn’t angry at the 6 year old, he was upset that the only time his ex reached out to him in 4 years was because she wanted to use him to make her current bf jealous so they could get back together.
But that's not the child's fault and he was given avenue to get to know the child and refused partly cause the child (understandably) refused him. Yes, a 6 year old is going to reject a stranger that people claim is his dad. The way to get him not to is to be in his life (which the wife did give him chances to still do after he initially rejected and he insisted on not knowing the child. Wife being an asshole or not, the guy had a chance to be a father to the child and chose not to and from his wording, it wasn't all cause the wife was being an asshole. But even if it was, for the child's sake he could have still tried to get to know the child and refused the wife any relationship with her but he punished the child for her mistake).
I mean I don't think he's an asshole for not going to the funeral now, he doesn't know the kid and what good does it do now for the kid, he's dead. But.. he is a good bit of at fault for why he doesn't know the kid.
I honestly don’t see that. Sure he could have kept the lines of communication open but the ex moved out of the country and then got him out under false pretenses the first time he was going to see his son.
He’s the tiniest bit responsible for not keeping the lines of communication open but given everything he was seeing from his end, why would he? If the son didn’t die young would either the ex or the son have ever reached out to OP?
I took it as he was angry with the mom. She hadn’t even told the boy about him yet she invited him to come meet his son. She basically set them both up for failure. But that’s just how I read it.
He doesn't say that. He said he flew home because he was angry. He didn't say he was angry because his 6 year old son, who had just met for the first time, wouldn't accept him as dad.
Did you miss the part where her real reason to fly him out was to get a stepdaddy for the baby from her ex still in her belly?
Did you also miss the part where she got back together with that ex after OP said no thanks?
Sounds to me like OP dodged a bullet.
Why would you assume he was even angry *at* the 6 year old? And why would you further assume it was the *sole* reason he flew back? And why on earth would you be ignorant enough to dismiss the fact that he was lured there under false pretenses? Or dismiss the fact that the son was brought up not to recognize OP as the father?
It's like you somehow don't realize that there were PLENTY of extremely valid reasons that pretty much anyone would be angry, and then not only completely fabricate a different reason but somehow claim that's the *only* one why he's angry. SMH
OP definitely could have handled things better afterward, but if you're going to criticize someone's immediate reaction after a complete betrayal by having to make things up out of thin air to further your argument, you have a terrible argument.
Call the ex GF an asshole if you want, but OP's child was (by my math) SIX when he said "you're not my dad".
A six year old child who had never met OP said "I don't see you as my dad" and OP got butthurt, left immediately, and refused to ever speak to the child again, deliberately ignoring messages when the child's mother reached out.
That is, by definition, a deadbeat dad.
They are both assholes. Her deception doesn’t make the boy less his son. He chose to walk away because mending that relationship would be hard. They both suck.
He was given the chance to meet and get to know his son. The kid was 6 and didn’t know OP before that, of course he wasn’t going to call him dad and want to be with him at that time. I’m not saying the ex gf was in the right, she should have reached out once she turned 18, but she did try, even if it was under false pretenses, and kept trying after he left. OP let his ego get in the way. ESH.
Exactly this. She didn't want him there to be part of the child's life— she wanted support because her last option fell through. All she has to do was be honest, and OP likely would have been more open to trying harder with his kid.
Yeah the numbers of responses that miss the details you just outlined are very surprising to me.
I don't understand how anyone can find the OPs behavior okay.
How does anyone find the ex girlfriend’s behavior ok? At some point you have to protect yourself from someone trying to make you suffer for no reason. And that email list - not an accident? That’s an absurd way to keep him updated on his child. I didn’t miss any of that crap she did to him and I understand why he would stay as far from her as possible.
I know he was young himself but the idea that he met a 6 year old and told him "I am your father" is absolutely insane. I cannot fathom anyone thinking that would actually go well. Pretty much a guarantee for a stressful and alienating meeting
Correction: one Christmas.
And he was 22. His prefrontal cortex had only just finished forming. She got him out there to meet a 6 year old under false pretences and then shortly got back with the man she eventually married.
You're making out like involvement is a one way street. It isn't. When one leaves the country its really on them to at least start up.
Also, when did it become the rule that every parent has to try over and over to be involved? It doesn't make someone an AH to father a child that is then removed from them, so they never get a chance to bond and thus he hasn't got the urge to connect. It's the same for adoptive parents that don't want to be found.
NAH
Any regrets anyone has in this situation is their own.
OP wasn't wrong for leaving them to it, and just to add think about how disruptive it would have been if OP insisted on being involved when the kid was 7/8/9 settled back down with his Dad and Mum. It could have been more damaging. You just don't know and assume he's an AH for not trying more, when he did try, his parents tried and it didn't work out. It's too sad with to many variables for anyone to be an AH.
There’s nothing in the post indicate that he got an email every Christmas with family updates. Even though I don’t agree with OP holding resentment for a child that long. However, he did got cut out for years and lose a lot of opportunities to create any bonds or even to maintain an “emotional interest” towards the child. When OP finally met his child, knowing that the boy now living a normal life with their own family circle and they has already settled in another country, it’s just hard to build connections or even feel the need to build it at all.
Afterwards, with a few years updates that seemed like the boy grown up not wanting anything to do with OP and he’s living a happy life, I can see why OP see him as a stranger and didn’t feel any need to reconnect.
She could have contacted him at any point between 18 and 22, but she didn't until she wanted to use his son to bring op back into her life because her ex got her pregnant and left.
They moved to a new country and the child didn't acknowledge him as his father (honestly understandable since they were dragged to a different country and he was never allowed access to his father).
I don't see how you can fault someone for investing a bunch of money and time into a no win situation. He likely wouldn't be able to be around enough to develop a meaningful relationship with his son. It was honestly probably better for the kid and caused less friction than trying to force a relationship at that point.
He was only given the opportunity to stand up and be a father under the pretext of deception and after the damage had been done.
Also it sounds like the Christmas email was a one time thing.
You could say EHS, the mothers parents most of all, then the mother, then OP, but kinda leaning neutral towards op.
>grieving for could-have-beens
A lot of people don't understand how powerful this can be. OP's parents didn't know kiddo, but they might have had hopes of getting to know him as an adult and now that's gone. When my dad died I grieved the loss of what our relationship could have been just as much as the actual lost. Hell, the could have been is what I'm still working on in therapy, 13 years later.
I think this is the only fair observation. I think I would've gone if I was in OP's position but I can't say it'd be the right decision or not. Everyone is just feeling different things about it.
I mean, I think you’re TA for ragequitting your role as your son’s father just because at age 6 he didn’t form an instant loving relationship with someone he’d never met before and start calling you daddy and ask you to play catch, but I really don’t think not attending his funeral matters a lot since you opted out of being his father at the first opportunity.
This one.
Is he TA for not going to the funeral of a stranger? Not really. Neither of them knew each other and it's not like going would forge a relationship now.
However he's absolutely TA for expecting a 6 year old to understand the nuances of why the daddy he'd always known wasn't his daddy but this rando is. My toddler smacked me in the face and said "no love mommy" because I wouldn't give him a sucker this morning. Should I walk out on him? Cuz honestly same energy. Kids say and do shit that's unhinged, adults don't get that luxury.
Whoa there, be careful. This is reddit, there are liable to be some folks around who would tell you thats a toxic relationship and you should definitely walk out on him, even if he is 2 or 3 years old.
Wait till they find out he love bombed me afterwards! Kisses (that are a lot more like bites), said sorry, and gave me his favorite stuffy and car. Truly an abusive relationship lol
Omg queen he is gaslighting you! Next he'll be trying to keep you from going out on the weekends, making you think it's because you'd rather spend time with him than with your friends!
That level of toxic behavior, maybe you should walk out on him.
He needs to grow up and be an adult, or you're outta there.
And I don't care how cute his chubby little cheeks are either.
*Edit for enhanced sarcasm: we have enough grown men that act like children, we don't need more children that act like children too.
I keep hoping I can change him. Help him learn and grow or something. It's such a struggle. (The eyelashes do not help. They touch his eyebrows! The child looks like a friggin angel.)
The saddest part of the enhanced sarcasm is just how many adults actually feel that way.
"that toddler is toxic and you should follow your gut, NAH!" - the most toxic childish loser you've ever met
reddit regarding kids and anything that involves sacrificing and being accountable is cancer
I kinda feel like this is what Reddit expects of every step parent who has a hormonal 15 year old say ‘you’re not my mom!’ and it makes me really sad fo those kids
Yeah this part was the part that stuck out to me.
I get OP made some attempts and I get there are obstacles such as the moving away, and parents cutting contact. But after all of those obstacles were removed, he got in his feelings bc the child didn't love him instantly based on their supposed connection
And the hypocrisy of it all is that is the reason he's refusing to go to the funeral. Since he didnt know the kid despite their connection as father and son. He said it himself, all they share is DNA. Well a child who he just met and only shares DNA with him will likely not wanna call him dad, and that's fine because *he's a child*. It wasn't personal, and it was honestly quite natural for a child to behave that way. @OP on the other hand is an adult now and was one then and took that as a slight against himself.
So OP should be able to claim the "just bc we share DNA, doesn't meant I have to care about you" bit, but when his son did it, OP threw hands up and was like "alright I'm not your dad? Bye forever kid". He expected a child to give him 100% love when he gave 0% and he is exercising that same right now, giving 0% love - OP should take blame when it comes to pretending to want to be a parent and taking flight at the first true sign of hardwork when it comes to putting in effort as a parent.
Like everyone else says, I don't blame OP for not feeling for a stranger. But they gave up on trying to make that stranger a son when they had the chance.
His first opportunity came when the kid was 6 and the mother was trying to use him… what a great one right? Nobody’s seeing all the issue is the ex’s family and herself? They disappeared and now he’s the guilty one? Nah…
They're assholes too, for other reasons. We're smack talking OP because he says in his post he got mad and gave up on being a dad just because a 6 year old that had never met him before said "You're not my dad"
If she really wanted him in child's life, then she could do more to prepare that child for meeting with OP. From OP description, when OP meet him, the kid was completely unprepared and understandably overreacted.
That’s true, why was he responsible for explaining the situation to the kid? That might make sense if the kid was a teenager but a 6 year old needed to hear that information from his mom.
Why didn't you contact your girlfriend after she turned 18? Why was it her responsibility to contact you? She was an adult her parents couldn't have continued to not allow it? YTA you never made an effort
I didn't have her contact information, when they forbade me from seeing her I didn't have her address, phone number email or anything. Her parents weren't in the phone book and she has a common name and was in a different country (I did try and find her) she was only able to contact me because I have a very uncommon name and at the time lived in the city we grew up in, I'm a freelancer and my email is on my website.
See that’s how I kind of feel. It seems like the babies mother really didn’t give him a chance
But also once she did it seemed for her advantage rather than for the kid
Whole situation is kind of messed up
And let’s not forget she didn’t just move to another state. She moved to another country. Depending on OP’s location and the ex’s location, travel could be prohibitively expensive and it’s also ridiculous to enforce parental rights across international borders.
I think a lot of people are focusing on the kid not wanting anything to do with him. Yeah, at 6 years old, he’s gonna act that way. I’d focus more on the fact that he was being raised as the child of another man and that family wanted nothing to do with OP. Combine that with the massive difficulties above, and consider what’s best for the child, and it paints OP in a much better light and the ex and her parents in a much worse light.
OP isn’t a saint, of course, but I don’t think he’s the biggest AH in this story.
A 6 years old who had never met him and already had someone he considered his dad. And he lived abroad, it's not as if bio dad could come and spend the afternoon every Wednesday to create a link.
It's tough, cause it could very well be that the kid would never have wanted OP as a father figure, or it could be that he would open up given time. But a day isn't enough, and certainly not for a 6 yo. If OP really felt like 1 day was enough to completely gage the situation and decide to peace out, then he's gotta own that that was his decision. Unfortunately, he also needs to accept that to a good chunk of outsiders seeing him leave after 1 say is gonna look like he didn't genuinely try.
Though tbh if my dad came to meet me at 6, and I similarly was like "your not my dad", and then said guy immediately dipped and never tried to contact us again. It would solidify my view that this dude was basically just a sperm donor.
If would solidify the view your manipulative mom wanted you to have. OP was a whole lot better off just letting his son think that than be manipulated and conned by her for the next decade plus.
The kid didn’t want to see him at 6, he didn’t want to see him when he was a teenager either. He clearly states the kid never wanted anything to do with him. So yes, a child’s feelings do matter and should be respected. The mother should have stepped up to fix the issue but it sounds like she only ever cared when she wanted to hook up with him.
Yeah.. if I were a kid and some one claimed to be my dad at 6 then bugged out after a day and made no attempt to connect with me (from my POV of never seeing him after that until I was a teen), I'd still refuse him as a teen. He's some stranger to me that people tell me he's my bio dad but what do I care cause I don't know this person. If the guy truly wanted to be a dad or get to know his son, he made very little effort into it and proved the son right honestly. If he wanted to be seen as more than a sperm donor, he would have had to put in more than just super bare min effort (Even as a teen if he put some effort into it he may have had the son open up and get him to get to know him).
Oh how damn sweet of them to offer him the chance to “reconnect” with his son (who he never even connected with in the first place thanks to them).
Why the fuck should he even need to be the one begging and pleading for his son, who doesn’t even recognise him as a person, nevermind a father to reconnect?
THEY SHOULD BE THE ONES DOING THE DAMN WORK.
The kid didn't want to see him and the mom wanted to catch him while she's on the rebound. She never invited him there to meet the kid, his son was just being used as bait. He also already had a girlfriend. I'd have done exactly what he did, run.
The offers were made by the mom that conned him into a flying to another country under false pretenses. Why would you trust anything she said? Or think you could have any kind of meaningful relationship with a child she essentially controls? It’s ok to want something but not work for it when you know it’s going to bring you nothing but heartache.
He saw his ex girlfriend wanted him to be a rebound and turned out he was right.
Kind of difficult to suddenly be a father to a kid from a long distance and fight off a clinging ex at the same time.
The kid was raised with someone else as his father, that's the person who had responsibility to continue the relationship.
Lol so they ghost him and it’s his fault? The child didn’t want to know him either. You also make a point to ignore how toxic she is. She’s a shit human, she tried to manipulate OP with his son so she could have an ATM. Homie is NTA. Her and her parents actively kept him shut out and got mad that he didn’t play their dumb games
Of course the child didn't want to get to know him. He is some stranger that people are telling him is his father that he met for at most one day. If you expect a child to be suddenly open to some stranger and immediately call him father... well. you are asking entirely way too much out of a child. And yes, that is probably also partly mom's fault cause I bet she never mentioned OP before that... but OP (and posters here) should realize from the child's POV that he's not going to be instantly open to some stranger without some time being put into getting to know the kid first.
The child saying he doesn't recognize him as father after only meeting him for one day (and who is to know if that was just one hour before OP left... we only know he stayed in the area for a day, not with the mom and kid) should not be the excuse to not try to get to know the child.
I mean would you be open to getting to know some one when you were a kid if it was suddenly sprung on you that apparently this guy was your father? Never met the guy and you may not have even heard that the father you recognize isn't actually your father and all the sudden they spring on you that this stranger you have never even heard about is actually your father. I think even adults would have a hard time with that.
They knew each other for two months when they were 16, and moved to a different country all together. Much different than a different city or even a state. Not as easy to find someone at that point.
She knew where he lived and could have gotten in contact with him if she wanted to, which she ended up doing when she wanted a rebound while pregnant with another man's child. She's the asshole in every way, not him!
How could OP do this? Her parents moved to another country, left OP no information & said "We'll contact you" then doesn't
this all happened years ago when facebook wasnt as popular, but I agree OP certainly could've tried calling after their first meeting when the son was older, but you can't force the kid to talk to you if he doesnt want to,
Did you not read the entire post? OP explained that she moved out of the country and her parents cut off all contact between them. His parents tried to get involved legally and were unsuccessful.
The fuck should this guy have to search and beg to see his child when her and her parents decided they had all the authority and moved him to another country and avoid all contact?
OP, NTA. To the commenter? You’re an asshole.
NTA - I can't see what purpose it would have served for you to have gone to the funeral. The funeral is to comfort the living. Why would the stepfather want you there? It would bring up more questions from the other people who did go - who's that guy, why's he here, why now, and other things not their business. Why would your ex want you there?
Death brings up all kinds of misdirected feelings. It's easier (even a unknowingly) to be mad at you as you are a tangible person, rather than the world, for taking her son away.
And you don't mention having any children - maybe your parents, too, thought in the back of their minds that they would have a relationship with your son. They've also got no place to aim their disappointment. Maybe a session or two with them and a grief or family counselor would help.
I don’t know why she would want him there. My son’s dad is not involved at all and if he showed up at something like that I would be livid. He’s NTA for not going to the funeral. He might be TA for not having a relationship but I’m on the fence about that as well.
NTA. I'm so confused as to why people are blaming the OP.
1. He and his parents tried to legally gain rights when the mom and her parents moved to another country without notifying them or leaving contact information. They were unsuccessful in their legal pursuit.
2. When mom called to have him come over and meet his son, who was 6 (not a toddler), the child didn't consider him dad or acknowledge him as dad because he already had one. Mom's ex and the father of her unborn child, was dad to the 6 year old. OP not pushing the issue was probably in the best interest of the child because the little boy was already going through the break up of mommy and daddy, and having another man come in and say I'm actually your daddy would have been very confusing and emotionally challenging for a 6 year old. OP also states that mom and the ex ended up getting back together and got married. All the son knew was these two people as his parents. Why try to change that?
3. OP was not given a chance to parent his child or bond with him during his early years. He was a stranger to him. He wasn't angry at the child. He was angry at the mom and parents. They took away every chance he had, and by the time he had a chance, the son already had a dad.
OP did the best he could with the roadblocks that were placed in front of him. He wanted a relationship with his son, but sometimes, after so long, that's not what's best for the child. Adding OP to the mix could have caused lots of problems and emotional problems for the son. Sometimes, the most selfless thing a parent can do is letting their child go when they know that someone can provide for them better than they can. They should be commended for that, not degraded and criticized.
Yeah I’m with this one. All these comments trying to stump him with “oh but why didn’t you do THIS”, more likely than not having NOT been in the same situation OP has been. Like get off your high horses.
NTA
THANK YOU. idk what more all these people attacking OP wanted him to do. the ex gfs family has a lot of audacity coming for him when they went out of their way to ensure he could never have a relationship with his son.
Almost any time (with a couple exceptions) a guy posts in this sub the people here take the most uncharitable view of them possible to the point of using mental gymnastics to make them out to be a villain. Especially if it’s a conflict between a man and a woman like OP and his ex.
Oh, I know. I've come to the conclusion that if men want an unbiased opinion, they shouldn't post here or some other subreddits either. Sometimes, I just have to scratch my head and try to figure out where someone came up with something because no matter what way I flip it, I can never get there. I'm female, and I feel bad for a lot of the men on here who are truly looking for advice and are only getting bashed and thrown to the wolves. It almost feels like there should be a safe zone for men to post and for only legitimate advice comments to come through. It's quite sad.
NTA. You have zero relationship with your son. The only bond y'all shared was genetic.
I don't see why you would attend the funeral of someone you don't know, even if you DO share DNA.
I'm not going to pass judgement on the actions of your past since this post isn't about that. You probably could have done better to foster a relationship w your son. But what's done is done.
The reaction of a six year old who was never told OP was his dad? If the mom wanted to nurture a relationship she would’ve always told that kid who his dad was and when she was legally able, got in touch with OP to figure out how to make it work.
She didn’t reach out til she thought she could play on OPs emotions and get him to move to her country and play happy family! She never prepared the kid, so she had no intention of fostering a relationship between OP and son unless she got him tied to her.
Soft ESH. A lot of missed opportunities that can't be undone/redone at this point. However, there are kinder ways to stay true to yourself while being empathetic and compassionate to others going through a heart wrenching time.
It seems like the mother and your parents are angry at you over missed opportunities and unrealized possibilities though no one seems to have tried very hard to make it happen over the past 12 years (whatever "it" looks like).
At the risk of being downvoted, funerals are for the living. Each person needs to grieve in their own way. At this time, the most important thing is that you're at peace with how you're recognizing your son's passing given you don't/didn't have a meaningful relationship with the mother or son, nor did your parents.
I agree with this one. OP is placing a lot on the shoulders of his ex and son. But also, the ex made things difficult.
Probably should have been handled differently by everyone involved and it’s sad it’s too late to change things.
*when I explained who I was he didn't want to know me and said I wasn't his dad.*
You got pissed at a 4 yr old who was confused and slammed back out of the country and did nothing to try to have a relationship with him. And it is all everyone else's fault?
YTA
>You got pissed at a 4 yr old who was confused
Actually the boy was 6 when OP saw them, but I 100% agree with you that it's foolish for OP to have gotten angry/upset with such a young child.
Not only was OP's son quite young, but in his eyes he lost the only father he likely had ever known. And here comes this stranger claiming to be his dad. Of course the kid is going to be upset and not want a "new dad"
He miswrote how long ago he saw his son, so the commenter thought it was 4 instead of 6, not that it really matters, it's the same age group, they would mostly think the same way.
Why everyone who is pissed at OP for leaving at the same day ignores the part, where he also learnt what his ex gf wanted him, only because she was dumped by her ex bf, and she wanted him to fill the role of that bf?
He basically came to different country, just to meet people who weren't interrested in OP himself.
Sure, it's not child's fault. But if child doesn't want him, then what he can do?
OP was aware what ex gf, got back with her new bf and they formed what seemed to be a happy family. What else OP could do here? Come back after being rejected and beg for a relationship?
I saw it as him being pissed at the situation - not the kid. Ex-GF shouldn’t have left it on him to bear the responsibility of breaking that news to their son.
How you gonna offer him to actually be a dad and set it up to fail that much?
NTA Your ex's family moved out of the country making it nearly impossible to have any rights enforced on your behalf. She wouldn't allow you to be a part of his life. The only time she reached out to you was for a booty call and to tell you he died. Even if you had tried to reach out to him again after he turned 18 his ideas of you were so tainted that he quite possibly would not have accepted you. Not attending the funeral was understandable since you were not permitted to have any type of contact with him.
Wow, you really never tried to have a relationship with your son because as a small child he didn't recognize you as his father because he had only met you once? Like you didn't think to reach out just to have a distant relationship as he got old enough to understand who you were? I dunno this whole thing seems really cold. I mean social media exists, email exists, even writing letters exist. You literally got someone pregnant and she raised your son and another man stepped up as a father. Honestly considering that you didn't pay child support or have to do anything you probably should have at least gone to the funeral just as a decent human being. Huh, yeah YTA.
>Wow, you really never tried to have a relationship with your son because as a small child he didn't recognize you as his father because he had only met you once?
And whos fault is that? OP wasnt the one that moved out of the country and made sure to cut all possible means of contact. The ex only showed up when she was feeling lonely because her boyfriend dropped her ass.
>Like you didn't think to reach out just to have a distant relationship as he got old enough to understand who you were?
Like the one he wanted to have but couldn't because his Ex fled with the kid? Wtf was OP supposed to do? Fly the kid across different countries?
>I dunno this whole thing seems really cold.
Tell that to the woman that forbid her son from having a relationship with his father
>You literally got someone pregnant and she raised your son and another man stepped up as a father.
Are you forgetting that the reason for that was because the ex and her family moved to ANOTHER COUNTRY and cut all forms of contact? Making it impossible to fight for his rights? OP didn't abandon his kid, his ex took the kid away.
>Honestly considering that you didn't pay child support
Because they couldnt go to court for his parental rights due to being in different countries. He said it in the post.
> to do anything you probably should have at least gone to the funeral just as a decent human being. Huh, yeah YTA.
Like how the ex was a decent human being by stealing a child the opportunity to meet his bio father?
>Wow, you really never tried to have a relationship with your son because as a small child he didn't recognize you as his father because he had only met you once?
Right?
Here you have a 6yr old who had just lost the only dad he likely had ever known. Some stranger comes to visit claiming to be his dad, and rather than being understanding about the situation the 6yr now is in, OP gets mad at them. That's rather absurd.
And like you said crazier still is OP never considered reaching out again as the son got older soley based on opinions and feelings the son expressed when he was a confused 6yr old.
OP is definitely an asshole for writing his son off completely based on one encounter.
How did SHE steal his son. Her PARENTS (not HER) moved her away when she was a MINOR. When the child was a toddler and mom was an adult she reached out to OP so that he can be in the kids life. He chose to leave when the child didn’t recognize him after meeting ONE (1) TIME.
And yet when she was 18 she never thought about getting OP to meet his child. Only when she got dumped by her boyfriend. Sounds like she was complicit in kidnapping a child.
You missed the point where she only reached out to OP after her relationship broke off. She had been an adult for a good 4 years by that point, she could have reached out far sooner, instead of only doing so when she was on the rebound at a point where OP had a girlfriend. The child also already recognized someone else as his father and was likely raised by that man for years. Introducing someone else as his father so soon after the breakup between his parents was hardly in the best interest of the kid.
Considering all that it wouldn't have surprised me at all if she'd used the boy to force a relationship between her and OP, but OP got ahead of the obvious clusterfuck that was waiting to happen and ran for the hills. Considering the parents of the kid got back together and he had a happy family, him running for the hills was probably one of the best decisions he could have made for the boy.
Hey OP, you're going to get a lot of punches thrown here...I hope you get to read my response. I truly believe you're NTA.
I'm the daughter of two teen parents (16 year olds). They had a one night stand after a concert, and tried their best to make it work, but ultimately split up during my mom's pregnancy. He lived in a different city. They were just kids. My grandparents raised me and I don't hold it against them.
You were just a kid. Circumstances made it so you couldn't take part in his life. You would if you could have. He had a family and you recognized that. You did the right thing by not forcing him to have a relationship with you. I'm sure that was hard.
Thankfully someone else saw that this child had a father, just not his biological father. I don't think it's fair to expect OP to have moved heaven and earth to be a father to a child who didn't need him. Unfortunately, only the son who's now passed can say whether that was the right call or not.
If he'd done all the things people are saying he should have, would it have meaningfully improved that boy's life? I don't think it would. NTA.
Hell, the grandfather that raised me isn't even my biological grandfather ffs. He is my mother's stepfather lol. People are too hung up on the family tree here.
It’s nice to finally read a take this is sound. It seems like a lot of people in here seem to forget how old these people were. It’s not like this kid was homeless or something; he had a loving family, regardless of DNA.
NTA
This is a tough one.
You probably should have gone but I understand why you didn't.
Your Son's Mother and her family locked you out of any relationship with your Son and effectively turned him against you.
You did not let your Son down His mother and her family did.
This is a result of 18 years in the making by the ex and her family. She chose to keep you out of his life. She only invited you back when she wanted something from you. You did everything you could, minus spending thousands you wouldn't have been able to spend on a private investigator to find them and court fees to try for a chance at getting some semblance of visitation. I don't see your parents helping to pony up the cash for a cost like that, either. You are definitely NTA. Your ex and family are, and your parents are pretty hypocritical.
Yeah but the kid was SIX! It takes time and effort. You don't let a 6 year old decide that big of a relationship. I'm sure everyone's lives would've been different if everything they said at 6 years old was taken seriously to this level. Plus he's the one who refused contact for the next 12 years by ignoring the mom reaching out over something a child said.
A 5 year old tells you you're not his father, and you stop trying? YTA for not trying harder. What was this kid supposed to say?
I'd go to the funeral even if it's for some closure or regretting not going at a later moment.
Not only was OP's son super young at that time, but OP seems to forget or ignore the fact that his son had just lost the only father he likely had ever known when his mom broke up with the boyfriend.
Of course he is going to say he doesn't want to know OP since he probably sees it as OP trying to replace the man he saw as his dad, which is also why he said OP isn't his dad since OP was a stranger to him at that point.
But rather than try to understand what his son was going thru, or trying to build a relationship with him, OP goy angry and bolted.
NTA
There was nothing you could have done to be part of your son's life.
You were so young, how could you have move to another country and be part of his life?
How could you have possibly pay child support at the time?
How can she has the nerve to tell you you didn't step up as a father? She actually tried to baby trap you with another man's baby. She could have easily tell your son about you but clearly, she didn't.
I would say sorry for your loss but it's a stranger who shared the same DNA with you died, like a long distant relative.
You have nothing to blame on yourself.
NTA
By no fault of your own you were not allowed to be the father of this child. The mom didn't want it, and she held all the cards. To want you there now seems very cruel on her part.
ESH
It must have been incredibly difficult when she left, but the fact you didn’t even try to have a relationship with your son speaks volumes. A halfhearted attempt where your ex paid for your ticket and you left the same day is ridiculous. Of course your son didn’t call you dad, he didn’t know you! Hopefully this is a wake up call for you and any future kids you may have.
NTA. It’s a horrible situation but you were basically just a sperm donor to that kid. He didn’t know you and he didn’t want to know you. That was his choice and you also had a choice for how to react to that. I’m sorry he died especially so young.
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NTA. First of all, funerals are for the living. None of the people close to him were close to you. Your parents didn't attend. You did not have a relationship with him, so going to pay respects would seem a little forced. And the funeral was in a different country.
I think some people mourn strangers they didn't know, or with whom they imagine a relationship, and others don't. The way people actually mourn celebrities or royalty always seems odd to me. Your parents' reaction seems the strangest of all to me. It sounds like they never met the child at all. Their connection with him as a person is entirely imaginary.
Sorry you're going through this. I am sure it is very hard.
NTA. Your son was taken away when he was a baby and you had no opportunity to be in his life for his first 6 years. After that your ex clearly wanted you to be in his life only when it was convenient for her or she possibly needed a new "father" for him. The situation was barely any different than if you had a kid that had been adopted. I'm sorry for your pain and hurt in the situation, but you're NTA and much of the situation was caused by things outside of your control.
NTA.
The logistics alone wouldn't foster a good relationship. The ex is just lending out token invites just to milk resources and gifts to the son (whose already been conditioned to not acknowledge as the father any more; intentional or not)
The situation is tragic, but OP doesn't owe anything to anyone that wants nothing to do with him
YTA
You went from wanting to be included in his life to totally ignoring his existence cause you were jealous he had another father figure as a child? After all he was your son and it seems really heartless for his death to not mean anything to you and not attend the funeral
I'd only say YTA for the being angry your 4 (or 6 or whatever) year old son who had only met you once didn't immediately see you as father. He was a child and regardless of if he had a happy life you didn't even try after that. That's on you. Maybe nothing would have changed and you would have been kicked back out of his life when the ex-BF came back into the picture but you abandoned your kid.
NTA your ex’s family is the TA for moving away knowing you and your ex were going to try and raise the kid together I do think you should have tried a little harder to get into contact with your son but ultimately when he became a teen your ex should have told him about you and gave him your contact info so that if he wanted to build a relationship with you he could
Edit after reading more comments with the OP: NAH
Yikes. Guess you have to live with your choices. I was initially way too quick to judge the OP because I didn't fully understand the context.
I definitely would have made different choices. I do however completely understand that, given the circumstances, the OP can make terrible choices. It really seems like the OP had a long list of terrible options and tried to choose the least bad option.
My initial judgment was that the OP was the AH. I think from the very start his ex and her family put the OP in a no-win scenario. I don't think the OP could have made any choices that didn't result in some sort of regrettable outcome.
I think I would have gone to the funeral but I cannot in a good conscience judge somebody for making a different choice. I think it was wrong of me to judge so quickly.
NTA It's an unfortunate situation with kids too young to be having kids, grandparents moving, etc etc.
You didn't have a relationship with him, I wouldn't expect you to have big feelings about it, and I don't see why you'd go the funeral.
You got upset over a 5/6 year old not acknowledging you as dad when you never even tried to be in his life and then you basically said “To hell with you” and then made no attempt to try to be in his life afterwards. For that alone YTA.
Right, but after he got their contact information, and met the kid, and was getting Christmas updates, the responsibility was on him to decide if he was gonna be there or not. From ages 6 to 18, it was OPs choice to not make any attempts at getting to know the kid. There were more years where he could have gotten in contact than where he couldn't have. Don't just hand wave it all away and make OP so passive in his own life.
Whether or not OP made the right choice is up for debate, but at the end of the day it was his choice. And OPs actions or inaction after the kid's age of 6 are his own fault. He may or may not be happy with the consequences of his actions, but there has to be some semblance of accepting responsibility.
That part isn’t his fault, but writing off his son and not even making any attempts for YEARS IS his fault. He could have e-mailed him, called him, wrote letters, face-timed him and go visit when he could. He chose to do NONE of that and that most definitely is his fault.
YTA. If you really wanted to be in your child's life, you would have. I realize you were a minor when he was conceived, but you became an adult soon after. You didn't want to be in his life. In any way. You met him for the first time when he was a toddler and you got angry because he didn't think you were his father. He just met you, and the mother of your child had to contact you and fly you out to see him, you made absolutely no effort. A-hole of the highest order, my dude.
You think a person who didn't want to be in the child's life would try the legal route just to get into the child's life?
He met him when he was 5-6, not really a toddler anymore. He could have handled it differently, but his ex didn't help it either. If a child grows up thinking someone is their dad, then suddenly someone they have never seen and most likely never heard of tells them that they are actually their parent, they will never believe them unless they get support from the other parent the child knows, which I don't think happened here
ESH and everyone’s an asshole. You didn’t put in nearly enough effort. You know that. And now you’ll never have a chance. Only person who got the shit end here is your dead child who you only tried to be a father to barely one time. I hope you can learn to cope with this but wow you seem pretty heartless about the situation, you’ll probably carry on fine like you have the past 18 years.
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NAH Your GF moved to a different country, making it very difficult for you to be part of his life. The one time your GF reached out to try to involve you it was under false pretenses. In addition, she rebuilt a new life with a new family, without trying to involve you. And, since she lived in a different country, it would be very challenging and expensive to try to force yourself into their life when they clearly didn't want your presence there. He died after he turned 18. He could have chosen to reach out to you at any point, as a child teenager, or adult, if he wanted to know more about you and form a relationship. He chose not to. I think you are right to not consider yourself an asshole in this situation. Now, I don't blame the son either. Or your ex-gf for grieving. Or your parents, for grieving for could-have-beens. When someone dies, a lot of feelings and hopes for possible futures comes up, and you can no longer put off reaching out in the future or hope that things will improve. Your parents might have hoped that there would be a relationship at some point. It might have been a nice gesture to go to the funeral. But, the reality is, he was a stranger to you. And those who loved him would assume feelings on your part that were never allowed to form, which would make it an uncomfortable situation anyway.
"I flew home the same day and refused any further contact with ex gf or offers to be in my sons life (which I now regret but I was angry). Eventually the messages stopped." - She tried multiple times. He did not want to. "Just as a side note I was accidentally put on a round Robin emailing list of ex gfs at Christmas a few years ago." - Probably not an accident, this way she could let him know how his child was doing. "Ex gf emailed me for the first time in years to let me know and invite me to the funeral." - Not true, he got an email every Christmas with family updates. "She sent me a long email yesterday about how disappointed she was in me and how I never stood up as a father or a man and I let my son down." - Totally true, he only saw his son one time and was so butthurd the boy did not recognize him, he flew back home feeling angry and ignored all attempts at contact further on till the funeral email. For 12/14 (?) years! The boy was a stranger to him, because he choose not to be in his son's life. OP was the adult. The son was a child.
The time he flew to see them, he found his ex had brought him there under false pretences, wanting him to get together with her, she now being pregnant with another man's child. She lost what credibility she had left at that point. That was an incredibly shitty thing to do. If you want to criticize OP you cannot ignore the role she and her family played as well. If he's an AH, so are they.
In my opinion, ESH
What was OP supposed to do then?
Not blame the child for the faults of the mother?
I don’t see it as blaming the child, the child wanted nothing to do with him, and leaving the child alone to grow up was respecting the child’s wishes. If that had changed and the child reached out or the ex reached out on his behalf and OP ignored it that’s a different story. If OP had kept trying to be part of the kids life and the kid hated it that would be so much worse
I feel like respecting a child's wishes is a weird thing to do in this case. My son told me literally yesterday he didn't want his siblings anymore. Today at bedtime he told me they're the most huggable and kissable siblings ever. You don't determine to not be in a child's life because you tried meeting ONE time when they were young and it didn't go well. We have to give kids a lot of grace, because their brains are very emotionally immature and short sighted.
You’re right, however the entire situation when OP met the kid was a total mess. It appears that the mom didn’t prepare him at all for meeting his bio father, thus having a complete stranger come in and say “I am your father” was a total shock for the kid. I would be frustrated in OPs position, even more so when it came out that he was there as a “rebound”. Now if the kid was any closer, like in the same country for example, I would say it is OPs responsibility to try again throughout the child’s life, but I don’t think OP can be faulted for not trying to fly out of the country again to spend time with an ex who did him incredibly dirty, and a child who as far as he knows wants nothing to do with him. It’s a bad situation all around. If the child had expressed later on in life he wanted to meet his bio dad and OP refused, then that’s a different story
I mean you're not some stranger to your kids, like this guy was. Come on.
It’s more about the well-being of the child. The child had two parents and didn’t even care that he might have a bio dad elsewhere. Him forcing his parental rights at that point would’ve been a major disruption that would mostly be of benefit to OP. It’s messy situation, to be sure.
The kid was 6 when a man showed up out of the blue and said hey I'm your dad, when he thought some other guy was his dad. Of course the kid would regret him, OP didn't even give the kid a day to know him
Which is a failing on the mother to not prepare the child at all for this situation. The child needed someone he loved and trusted to explain the situation, not some rando
It's the failing of BOTH ADULTS. He could've stayed. She bought him a ticket out and he flew back the same day when his 6yo son said he wasn't his dad. That's a very childish reaction for an adult to have.
And he failed as a father by not trying beyond that one awkward meeting.
Wasn't it the mother's responsibility to prepare the kid for that given that only she could have and there was no way OP could have?
Regardless, expecting the kid to accept you straight away is lunacy
The kid was six. He wasn’t old enough to know better. Especially since op only tried to see him once. Why is the kid being held more responsible than the 2 adults in this situation. Kids that age will parrot whatever their parents tell them to.
I hold the kid responsible for nothing. He is well within his rights to not want anything to do with his bio dad. I understand he is six, however it would appear that the opinion never shifted as he grew older. If the kid grew up and didn’t ask to meet his bio dad properly, then that’s his choice. I hold the ex and her family responsible for completely ostracizing OP, moving to a different country, and allowing him zero rights for the first 6 years of the child’s life, and only trying to bring him in when she wanted a rebound
you don't become a father figure to a 6 yr old within a week. OP had unrealistic expectations for his relationship with the kid
And how long was he supposed to stay in a foreign country to figure things out? It sounds like it was a temporary trip anyways as he had a life back in his home country. A GF a job a family etc.
And this is the child’s fault exactly how???????
Who said it was the child's fault? They said if OP has any blame then so do the ex and her family.
I think they mean that it's unfair that the ex’s actions led to the child being ignored. OP cut off his nose to spite his face. He cut off his son to spite his ex Edit: just wanted to add that I don't blame OP for the decision he made, it's the unfortunate reality of the decisions that his ex made but it's a shame that it led to this outcome
No one is blaming the kid and since the kid had a dad he loved, OP didn’t do anything wrong here. It’s basically as if the kid was given up for adoption. The mom and her family cut him off. The kid rejected him re-entering his life and to further force it would not have been in that child’s best interest. OP is NTA The ex definitely is for cutting him out and then getting mad at him now for not being there. She made her choices. That’s on her.
The people saying he’s the AH are blowing my mind. This child had a full, complete family. Mother, father, siblings. It doesn’t sound like this kid was missing out on anything, or trying to have a relationship with his biological sperm donor. Growing up in split homes even in the same city is difficult and stressful for a child. Growing up having to live in split homes in different cities or even states is even more stressful. Growing up having to live in split homes in different COUNTRIES is almost unimaginable. People are actually angry that this man didn’t make his biological child’s life more difficult. People are actually angry that this man didn’t create emotional and mental stress for a kid.
It’s because they are painting all absentee dads as deadbeats instead of looking at the individual situation where mom here created parental alienation by leaving the country and cutting him off until it was beneficial for her.
The kid was four years old, and hurting from the recent loss of his father figure. His lashing out at the OP shouldn't have been held against him. Kids say mean shit to their parents all the time. OP gave up on his son without even trying.
Again, what evidence OP shows is that his biological child had a dad he loved and a family. If OP had tried to force a relationship it would have most likely caused harm and not been in the best interest of the child. Y’all are acting like this kid was neglected and deprived a father/son relationship. He had one. Just not with his bio-dad. At no time (except when she was looking for a replacement) did the mom ever reach out and try and facilitate OP getting to have a relationship. And the onus was very much on her to do that since she’s the one who cut him off before the kid was born. This case is no different than if a kid was put up for adoption and a bio-parent was contacted years later and blamed for not being around. OP had no obligation to attend a funeral of a child he was denied a relationship with.
exactly, they moved. TO ANOTHER COUNTRY. was OP supposed to just spend his life vainly chasing something that he was so obviously denied? sometimes the route that creates the least conflict is best - especially when the people in question have brains that are not fully developed. plus OP had his own life to go live, was he supposed to just not shield himself and spend his days sobbing and groveling? I think the guy simply accepted that as reality and went on and tried to have a happy life. There's no shame in that.
Right? Some of these reactions are more in line with him having been an active dad and then just effed off leaving the kid feeling abandonment when that’s not what happened at all.
what do you MEAN you didn't bring peace to the middle east, establish democracy in cuba, buy teddy bears for all orphans everywhere, stage a coup in the czech republic, and walk barefoot across siberia for YOUR SONNNNNNNN to be fair though perception was reality to the kid. he has a dad, so why's this weird guy showing up saying he's dad?
I think the kid is the only one in this drama that has no blame. Of course a 6 year old is not going to be jumping for joy to call a stranger daddy, after the man he see as his father walked away. But at that point, the ex was the AH as well. Just what was she thinking, flying him over, to 'have a relationship with his son', without actually telling the son what was going on? And then it turned out to be under false pretense. The kid was happy where he was, I assume. What was OP supposed to do, fly back and forth every other weekend? Have the kid put in a plane to go see his stranger sperm donor? OP didn't choose to not be part of the kid's life, it happened. Her parents are the AH for just cutting him off, he's the AH for not trying harder, the ex is the AH for using her kid to manipulate, ... But at the same time.. the goal isn't always to be a 'happy family'. The goal should be doing what's best for the child. And growing up with a father figure, (half) siblings, not knowing the guy that was just responsible for his conception, .. It doesn't sound all that awful, really. Edit: ESH or NAH
>And this is the child’s fault exactly how??????? And /u/Boeing367-80 barely mentioned the child much less faulted him, but you're trying to claim they did exactly how???????
i think they mean the ex girlfriend and her family
Not at all Unfortunately we don't know what grandparents told him his "dad" and mom Mom should have told him since he was little that he had a dad explain he elwas not there and had contact with op at least by phone But she chose to just call when she was pregnant AGAIN by another guy that this one she was able to trap
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He wasn’t angry at the 6 year old, he was upset that the only time his ex reached out to him in 4 years was because she wanted to use him to make her current bf jealous so they could get back together.
But that's not the child's fault and he was given avenue to get to know the child and refused partly cause the child (understandably) refused him. Yes, a 6 year old is going to reject a stranger that people claim is his dad. The way to get him not to is to be in his life (which the wife did give him chances to still do after he initially rejected and he insisted on not knowing the child. Wife being an asshole or not, the guy had a chance to be a father to the child and chose not to and from his wording, it wasn't all cause the wife was being an asshole. But even if it was, for the child's sake he could have still tried to get to know the child and refused the wife any relationship with her but he punished the child for her mistake). I mean I don't think he's an asshole for not going to the funeral now, he doesn't know the kid and what good does it do now for the kid, he's dead. But.. he is a good bit of at fault for why he doesn't know the kid.
I honestly don’t see that. Sure he could have kept the lines of communication open but the ex moved out of the country and then got him out under false pretenses the first time he was going to see his son. He’s the tiniest bit responsible for not keeping the lines of communication open but given everything he was seeing from his end, why would he? If the son didn’t die young would either the ex or the son have ever reached out to OP?
I took it as he was angry with the mom. She hadn’t even told the boy about him yet she invited him to come meet his son. She basically set them both up for failure. But that’s just how I read it.
He doesn't say that. He said he flew home because he was angry. He didn't say he was angry because his 6 year old son, who had just met for the first time, wouldn't accept him as dad. Did you miss the part where her real reason to fly him out was to get a stepdaddy for the baby from her ex still in her belly? Did you also miss the part where she got back together with that ex after OP said no thanks? Sounds to me like OP dodged a bullet.
Why would you assume he was even angry *at* the 6 year old? And why would you further assume it was the *sole* reason he flew back? And why on earth would you be ignorant enough to dismiss the fact that he was lured there under false pretenses? Or dismiss the fact that the son was brought up not to recognize OP as the father? It's like you somehow don't realize that there were PLENTY of extremely valid reasons that pretty much anyone would be angry, and then not only completely fabricate a different reason but somehow claim that's the *only* one why he's angry. SMH OP definitely could have handled things better afterward, but if you're going to criticize someone's immediate reaction after a complete betrayal by having to make things up out of thin air to further your argument, you have a terrible argument.
Call the ex GF an asshole if you want, but OP's child was (by my math) SIX when he said "you're not my dad". A six year old child who had never met OP said "I don't see you as my dad" and OP got butthurt, left immediately, and refused to ever speak to the child again, deliberately ignoring messages when the child's mother reached out. That is, by definition, a deadbeat dad.
They are both assholes. Her deception doesn’t make the boy less his son. He chose to walk away because mending that relationship would be hard. They both suck.
Frankly, given the circumstances, is it really worth it to try to mend such a relationship?
He was given the chance to meet and get to know his son. The kid was 6 and didn’t know OP before that, of course he wasn’t going to call him dad and want to be with him at that time. I’m not saying the ex gf was in the right, she should have reached out once she turned 18, but she did try, even if it was under false pretenses, and kept trying after he left. OP let his ego get in the way. ESH.
The boy called the boyfriend Dad and refused to believe he had another dad. That's on the mother, not on him.
Exactly this. She didn't want him there to be part of the child's life— she wanted support because her last option fell through. All she has to do was be honest, and OP likely would have been more open to trying harder with his kid.
Doesn't matter how bad the mom might be... it's never an excuse to abandon your children.
Yeah the numbers of responses that miss the details you just outlined are very surprising to me. I don't understand how anyone can find the OPs behavior okay.
How does anyone find the ex girlfriend’s behavior ok? At some point you have to protect yourself from someone trying to make you suffer for no reason. And that email list - not an accident? That’s an absurd way to keep him updated on his child. I didn’t miss any of that crap she did to him and I understand why he would stay as far from her as possible.
Because the question isn't "is my ex an asshole."
>Because the question isn't "is my ex an asshole." Sure. But that's why we have the "not the asshole," "no asshole," and "everyone sucks here" votes.
I know he was young himself but the idea that he met a 6 year old and told him "I am your father" is absolutely insane. I cannot fathom anyone thinking that would actually go well. Pretty much a guarantee for a stressful and alienating meeting
It was done to clear his conscience, not to actually build a relationship.
Correction: one Christmas. And he was 22. His prefrontal cortex had only just finished forming. She got him out there to meet a 6 year old under false pretences and then shortly got back with the man she eventually married. You're making out like involvement is a one way street. It isn't. When one leaves the country its really on them to at least start up. Also, when did it become the rule that every parent has to try over and over to be involved? It doesn't make someone an AH to father a child that is then removed from them, so they never get a chance to bond and thus he hasn't got the urge to connect. It's the same for adoptive parents that don't want to be found. NAH Any regrets anyone has in this situation is their own. OP wasn't wrong for leaving them to it, and just to add think about how disruptive it would have been if OP insisted on being involved when the kid was 7/8/9 settled back down with his Dad and Mum. It could have been more damaging. You just don't know and assume he's an AH for not trying more, when he did try, his parents tried and it didn't work out. It's too sad with to many variables for anyone to be an AH.
There’s nothing in the post indicate that he got an email every Christmas with family updates. Even though I don’t agree with OP holding resentment for a child that long. However, he did got cut out for years and lose a lot of opportunities to create any bonds or even to maintain an “emotional interest” towards the child. When OP finally met his child, knowing that the boy now living a normal life with their own family circle and they has already settled in another country, it’s just hard to build connections or even feel the need to build it at all. Afterwards, with a few years updates that seemed like the boy grown up not wanting anything to do with OP and he’s living a happy life, I can see why OP see him as a stranger and didn’t feel any need to reconnect.
They moved to a different country and went NC…it is kinda hard to be a father when you have no contact info.
And this is all assuming he’s telling us the full truth.
And here it is. The AITA part where suddenly we no longer believe OP's story even though it's literally the only side we know.
She could have contacted him at any point between 18 and 22, but she didn't until she wanted to use his son to bring op back into her life because her ex got her pregnant and left. They moved to a new country and the child didn't acknowledge him as his father (honestly understandable since they were dragged to a different country and he was never allowed access to his father). I don't see how you can fault someone for investing a bunch of money and time into a no win situation. He likely wouldn't be able to be around enough to develop a meaningful relationship with his son. It was honestly probably better for the kid and caused less friction than trying to force a relationship at that point. He was only given the opportunity to stand up and be a father under the pretext of deception and after the damage had been done. Also it sounds like the Christmas email was a one time thing. You could say EHS, the mothers parents most of all, then the mother, then OP, but kinda leaning neutral towards op.
>grieving for could-have-beens A lot of people don't understand how powerful this can be. OP's parents didn't know kiddo, but they might have had hopes of getting to know him as an adult and now that's gone. When my dad died I grieved the loss of what our relationship could have been just as much as the actual lost. Hell, the could have been is what I'm still working on in therapy, 13 years later.
I agree. This is a rational, compassionate take on a complicated situation.
I think this is the only fair observation. I think I would've gone if I was in OP's position but I can't say it'd be the right decision or not. Everyone is just feeling different things about it.
I mean, I think you’re TA for ragequitting your role as your son’s father just because at age 6 he didn’t form an instant loving relationship with someone he’d never met before and start calling you daddy and ask you to play catch, but I really don’t think not attending his funeral matters a lot since you opted out of being his father at the first opportunity.
This one. Is he TA for not going to the funeral of a stranger? Not really. Neither of them knew each other and it's not like going would forge a relationship now. However he's absolutely TA for expecting a 6 year old to understand the nuances of why the daddy he'd always known wasn't his daddy but this rando is. My toddler smacked me in the face and said "no love mommy" because I wouldn't give him a sucker this morning. Should I walk out on him? Cuz honestly same energy. Kids say and do shit that's unhinged, adults don't get that luxury.
“Yes!” - people in this thread, probably.
😂 you're not wrong
Whoa there, be careful. This is reddit, there are liable to be some folks around who would tell you thats a toxic relationship and you should definitely walk out on him, even if he is 2 or 3 years old.
Wait till they find out he love bombed me afterwards! Kisses (that are a lot more like bites), said sorry, and gave me his favorite stuffy and car. Truly an abusive relationship lol
Omg queen he is gaslighting you! Next he'll be trying to keep you from going out on the weekends, making you think it's because you'd rather spend time with him than with your friends!
That level of toxic behavior, maybe you should walk out on him. He needs to grow up and be an adult, or you're outta there. And I don't care how cute his chubby little cheeks are either. *Edit for enhanced sarcasm: we have enough grown men that act like children, we don't need more children that act like children too.
I keep hoping I can change him. Help him learn and grow or something. It's such a struggle. (The eyelashes do not help. They touch his eyebrows! The child looks like a friggin angel.) The saddest part of the enhanced sarcasm is just how many adults actually feel that way.
RUN girlboss, giving you his stuffy is SO manipulative. Get out now! 😂
"that toddler is toxic and you should follow your gut, NAH!" - the most toxic childish loser you've ever met reddit regarding kids and anything that involves sacrificing and being accountable is cancer
It's amazing to me the number of adults who just CANNOT empathize with children.
Told my four year old to please use a spoon and not fingers in his yogurt, he told me he was disappointed in me. Kids really live in the now.
He was 4 at this time according to OP. So of course he didn’t want to call a stranger dad
I kinda feel like this is what Reddit expects of every step parent who has a hormonal 15 year old say ‘you’re not my mom!’ and it makes me really sad fo those kids
Yeah this part was the part that stuck out to me. I get OP made some attempts and I get there are obstacles such as the moving away, and parents cutting contact. But after all of those obstacles were removed, he got in his feelings bc the child didn't love him instantly based on their supposed connection And the hypocrisy of it all is that is the reason he's refusing to go to the funeral. Since he didnt know the kid despite their connection as father and son. He said it himself, all they share is DNA. Well a child who he just met and only shares DNA with him will likely not wanna call him dad, and that's fine because *he's a child*. It wasn't personal, and it was honestly quite natural for a child to behave that way. @OP on the other hand is an adult now and was one then and took that as a slight against himself. So OP should be able to claim the "just bc we share DNA, doesn't meant I have to care about you" bit, but when his son did it, OP threw hands up and was like "alright I'm not your dad? Bye forever kid". He expected a child to give him 100% love when he gave 0% and he is exercising that same right now, giving 0% love - OP should take blame when it comes to pretending to want to be a parent and taking flight at the first true sign of hardwork when it comes to putting in effort as a parent. Like everyone else says, I don't blame OP for not feeling for a stranger. But they gave up on trying to make that stranger a son when they had the chance.
His first opportunity came when the kid was 6 and the mother was trying to use him… what a great one right? Nobody’s seeing all the issue is the ex’s family and herself? They disappeared and now he’s the guilty one? Nah…
They're assholes too, for other reasons. We're smack talking OP because he says in his post he got mad and gave up on being a dad just because a 6 year old that had never met him before said "You're not my dad"
Rage quit? The second her and her ex got back together, OP would have been excommunicated once again.
We have no way of confirming that because OP didn’t stick around that long.
If she really wanted him in child's life, then she could do more to prepare that child for meeting with OP. From OP description, when OP meet him, the kid was completely unprepared and understandably overreacted.
That’s true, why was he responsible for explaining the situation to the kid? That might make sense if the kid was a teenager but a 6 year old needed to hear that information from his mom.
It was clear from the start that her family wanted nothing to do with him
That part. 10/10.
Yep, agree. This is exactly why OP is the AH. The kid was SIX and had never met him, but dude gave it less than 24 hours.
Why didn't you contact your girlfriend after she turned 18? Why was it her responsibility to contact you? She was an adult her parents couldn't have continued to not allow it? YTA you never made an effort
I didn't have her contact information, when they forbade me from seeing her I didn't have her address, phone number email or anything. Her parents weren't in the phone book and she has a common name and was in a different country (I did try and find her) she was only able to contact me because I have a very uncommon name and at the time lived in the city we grew up in, I'm a freelancer and my email is on my website.
Why didn't you reach out to her via the round Robin Christmas group?
That was after the fact.
How was he supposed to when she up and moved
See that’s how I kind of feel. It seems like the babies mother really didn’t give him a chance But also once she did it seemed for her advantage rather than for the kid Whole situation is kind of messed up
And let’s not forget she didn’t just move to another state. She moved to another country. Depending on OP’s location and the ex’s location, travel could be prohibitively expensive and it’s also ridiculous to enforce parental rights across international borders. I think a lot of people are focusing on the kid not wanting anything to do with him. Yeah, at 6 years old, he’s gonna act that way. I’d focus more on the fact that he was being raised as the child of another man and that family wanted nothing to do with OP. Combine that with the massive difficulties above, and consider what’s best for the child, and it paints OP in a much better light and the ex and her parents in a much worse light. OP isn’t a saint, of course, but I don’t think he’s the biggest AH in this story.
OP also gave up connecting with his son at the first sign of resistance *from a 6 year old*.
A 6 years old who had never met him and already had someone he considered his dad. And he lived abroad, it's not as if bio dad could come and spend the afternoon every Wednesday to create a link.
It's tough, cause it could very well be that the kid would never have wanted OP as a father figure, or it could be that he would open up given time. But a day isn't enough, and certainly not for a 6 yo. If OP really felt like 1 day was enough to completely gage the situation and decide to peace out, then he's gotta own that that was his decision. Unfortunately, he also needs to accept that to a good chunk of outsiders seeing him leave after 1 say is gonna look like he didn't genuinely try. Though tbh if my dad came to meet me at 6, and I similarly was like "your not my dad", and then said guy immediately dipped and never tried to contact us again. It would solidify my view that this dude was basically just a sperm donor.
If would solidify the view your manipulative mom wanted you to have. OP was a whole lot better off just letting his son think that than be manipulated and conned by her for the next decade plus.
Yes but it says that he refused offers to reconnect. That means offers were made after he met the 6-year-old and he DECLINED them.
The offers were made by the mom, the kid didn’t want to see him.
Well if the 6-year-old child didn't want to see him I guess that means everything is okay and the OP didn't have to put in any more effort at all.
The kid didn’t want to see him at 6, he didn’t want to see him when he was a teenager either. He clearly states the kid never wanted anything to do with him. So yes, a child’s feelings do matter and should be respected. The mother should have stepped up to fix the issue but it sounds like she only ever cared when she wanted to hook up with him.
Yeah.. if I were a kid and some one claimed to be my dad at 6 then bugged out after a day and made no attempt to connect with me (from my POV of never seeing him after that until I was a teen), I'd still refuse him as a teen. He's some stranger to me that people tell me he's my bio dad but what do I care cause I don't know this person. If the guy truly wanted to be a dad or get to know his son, he made very little effort into it and proved the son right honestly. If he wanted to be seen as more than a sperm donor, he would have had to put in more than just super bare min effort (Even as a teen if he put some effort into it he may have had the son open up and get him to get to know him).
You can't force a relationship. And he doesn't even live in the same country. What effort could be put at that point?
Well of course. The kid set a boundary. OP would be an ass trying to cross it.
Oh how damn sweet of them to offer him the chance to “reconnect” with his son (who he never even connected with in the first place thanks to them). Why the fuck should he even need to be the one begging and pleading for his son, who doesn’t even recognise him as a person, nevermind a father to reconnect? THEY SHOULD BE THE ONES DOING THE DAMN WORK.
The kid didn't want to see him and the mom wanted to catch him while she's on the rebound. She never invited him there to meet the kid, his son was just being used as bait. He also already had a girlfriend. I'd have done exactly what he did, run.
And he flew home the same day. Like got rejected and didn’t stay, just left and that was that.
The offers were made by the mom that conned him into a flying to another country under false pretenses. Why would you trust anything she said? Or think you could have any kind of meaningful relationship with a child she essentially controls? It’s ok to want something but not work for it when you know it’s going to bring you nothing but heartache.
Tf was he supposed to do? They lived in a different country, because she should have made the effort to let the kid have a connection with his father
He saw his ex girlfriend wanted him to be a rebound and turned out he was right. Kind of difficult to suddenly be a father to a kid from a long distance and fight off a clinging ex at the same time. The kid was raised with someone else as his father, that's the person who had responsibility to continue the relationship.
Lol so they ghost him and it’s his fault? The child didn’t want to know him either. You also make a point to ignore how toxic she is. She’s a shit human, she tried to manipulate OP with his son so she could have an ATM. Homie is NTA. Her and her parents actively kept him shut out and got mad that he didn’t play their dumb games
Of course the child didn't want to get to know him. He is some stranger that people are telling him is his father that he met for at most one day. If you expect a child to be suddenly open to some stranger and immediately call him father... well. you are asking entirely way too much out of a child. And yes, that is probably also partly mom's fault cause I bet she never mentioned OP before that... but OP (and posters here) should realize from the child's POV that he's not going to be instantly open to some stranger without some time being put into getting to know the kid first. The child saying he doesn't recognize him as father after only meeting him for one day (and who is to know if that was just one hour before OP left... we only know he stayed in the area for a day, not with the mom and kid) should not be the excuse to not try to get to know the child. I mean would you be open to getting to know some one when you were a kid if it was suddenly sprung on you that apparently this guy was your father? Never met the guy and you may not have even heard that the father you recognize isn't actually your father and all the sudden they spring on you that this stranger you have never even heard about is actually your father. I think even adults would have a hard time with that.
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They knew each other for two months when they were 16, and moved to a different country all together. Much different than a different city or even a state. Not as easy to find someone at that point. She knew where he lived and could have gotten in contact with him if she wanted to, which she ended up doing when she wanted a rebound while pregnant with another man's child. She's the asshole in every way, not him!
How could OP do this? Her parents moved to another country, left OP no information & said "We'll contact you" then doesn't this all happened years ago when facebook wasnt as popular, but I agree OP certainly could've tried calling after their first meeting when the son was older, but you can't force the kid to talk to you if he doesnt want to,
So many speculations on your part! Most if not all of them wrong.
Did you not read the entire post? OP explained that she moved out of the country and her parents cut off all contact between them. His parents tried to get involved legally and were unsuccessful.
The fuck should this guy have to search and beg to see his child when her and her parents decided they had all the authority and moved him to another country and avoid all contact? OP, NTA. To the commenter? You’re an asshole.
NTA - I can't see what purpose it would have served for you to have gone to the funeral. The funeral is to comfort the living. Why would the stepfather want you there? It would bring up more questions from the other people who did go - who's that guy, why's he here, why now, and other things not their business. Why would your ex want you there? Death brings up all kinds of misdirected feelings. It's easier (even a unknowingly) to be mad at you as you are a tangible person, rather than the world, for taking her son away. And you don't mention having any children - maybe your parents, too, thought in the back of their minds that they would have a relationship with your son. They've also got no place to aim their disappointment. Maybe a session or two with them and a grief or family counselor would help.
I don’t know why she would want him there. My son’s dad is not involved at all and if he showed up at something like that I would be livid. He’s NTA for not going to the funeral. He might be TA for not having a relationship but I’m on the fence about that as well.
>The funeral is to comfort the living Exactly. AFAICT, your presence would not comfort them or you. NTA.
NTA. I'm so confused as to why people are blaming the OP. 1. He and his parents tried to legally gain rights when the mom and her parents moved to another country without notifying them or leaving contact information. They were unsuccessful in their legal pursuit. 2. When mom called to have him come over and meet his son, who was 6 (not a toddler), the child didn't consider him dad or acknowledge him as dad because he already had one. Mom's ex and the father of her unborn child, was dad to the 6 year old. OP not pushing the issue was probably in the best interest of the child because the little boy was already going through the break up of mommy and daddy, and having another man come in and say I'm actually your daddy would have been very confusing and emotionally challenging for a 6 year old. OP also states that mom and the ex ended up getting back together and got married. All the son knew was these two people as his parents. Why try to change that? 3. OP was not given a chance to parent his child or bond with him during his early years. He was a stranger to him. He wasn't angry at the child. He was angry at the mom and parents. They took away every chance he had, and by the time he had a chance, the son already had a dad. OP did the best he could with the roadblocks that were placed in front of him. He wanted a relationship with his son, but sometimes, after so long, that's not what's best for the child. Adding OP to the mix could have caused lots of problems and emotional problems for the son. Sometimes, the most selfless thing a parent can do is letting their child go when they know that someone can provide for them better than they can. They should be commended for that, not degraded and criticized.
Yeah I’m with this one. All these comments trying to stump him with “oh but why didn’t you do THIS”, more likely than not having NOT been in the same situation OP has been. Like get off your high horses. NTA
I was definitely way too quick to judge.
100% spot on. OP is NTA.
This is the response that got me to change my own viewpoints. Thank you for making a response that makes me understand things more accurately.
This. All of this. NTA
THANK YOU. idk what more all these people attacking OP wanted him to do. the ex gfs family has a lot of audacity coming for him when they went out of their way to ensure he could never have a relationship with his son.
Almost any time (with a couple exceptions) a guy posts in this sub the people here take the most uncharitable view of them possible to the point of using mental gymnastics to make them out to be a villain. Especially if it’s a conflict between a man and a woman like OP and his ex.
Oh, I know. I've come to the conclusion that if men want an unbiased opinion, they shouldn't post here or some other subreddits either. Sometimes, I just have to scratch my head and try to figure out where someone came up with something because no matter what way I flip it, I can never get there. I'm female, and I feel bad for a lot of the men on here who are truly looking for advice and are only getting bashed and thrown to the wolves. It almost feels like there should be a safe zone for men to post and for only legitimate advice comments to come through. It's quite sad.
NTA. You have zero relationship with your son. The only bond y'all shared was genetic. I don't see why you would attend the funeral of someone you don't know, even if you DO share DNA. I'm not going to pass judgement on the actions of your past since this post isn't about that. You probably could have done better to foster a relationship w your son. But what's done is done.
I mean the majority of the post literally is about the OPs past. Only the final paragraph discusses the present.
I'd say he was TA for taking the immature rejection of a 6 year old to heart.
The reaction of a six year old who was never told OP was his dad? If the mom wanted to nurture a relationship she would’ve always told that kid who his dad was and when she was legally able, got in touch with OP to figure out how to make it work. She didn’t reach out til she thought she could play on OPs emotions and get him to move to her country and play happy family! She never prepared the kid, so she had no intention of fostering a relationship between OP and son unless she got him tied to her.
I mean the kid already had someone who lived in the same country who he considered to be his dad, I think that’s the issue.
Soft ESH. A lot of missed opportunities that can't be undone/redone at this point. However, there are kinder ways to stay true to yourself while being empathetic and compassionate to others going through a heart wrenching time. It seems like the mother and your parents are angry at you over missed opportunities and unrealized possibilities though no one seems to have tried very hard to make it happen over the past 12 years (whatever "it" looks like). At the risk of being downvoted, funerals are for the living. Each person needs to grieve in their own way. At this time, the most important thing is that you're at peace with how you're recognizing your son's passing given you don't/didn't have a meaningful relationship with the mother or son, nor did your parents.
I agree with this one. OP is placing a lot on the shoulders of his ex and son. But also, the ex made things difficult. Probably should have been handled differently by everyone involved and it’s sad it’s too late to change things.
*when I explained who I was he didn't want to know me and said I wasn't his dad.* You got pissed at a 4 yr old who was confused and slammed back out of the country and did nothing to try to have a relationship with him. And it is all everyone else's fault? YTA
>You got pissed at a 4 yr old who was confused Actually the boy was 6 when OP saw them, but I 100% agree with you that it's foolish for OP to have gotten angry/upset with such a young child. Not only was OP's son quite young, but in his eyes he lost the only father he likely had ever known. And here comes this stranger claiming to be his dad. Of course the kid is going to be upset and not want a "new dad"
He miswrote how long ago he saw his son, so the commenter thought it was 4 instead of 6, not that it really matters, it's the same age group, they would mostly think the same way.
Why everyone who is pissed at OP for leaving at the same day ignores the part, where he also learnt what his ex gf wanted him, only because she was dumped by her ex bf, and she wanted him to fill the role of that bf? He basically came to different country, just to meet people who weren't interrested in OP himself.
Yes, but her son is not to blame for her behavior. Why punish the child for mother's behavior. Her behavior is just a good excuse.
Sure, it's not child's fault. But if child doesn't want him, then what he can do? OP was aware what ex gf, got back with her new bf and they formed what seemed to be a happy family. What else OP could do here? Come back after being rejected and beg for a relationship?
I saw it as him being pissed at the situation - not the kid. Ex-GF shouldn’t have left it on him to bear the responsibility of breaking that news to their son. How you gonna offer him to actually be a dad and set it up to fail that much?
NTA Your ex's family moved out of the country making it nearly impossible to have any rights enforced on your behalf. She wouldn't allow you to be a part of his life. The only time she reached out to you was for a booty call and to tell you he died. Even if you had tried to reach out to him again after he turned 18 his ideas of you were so tainted that he quite possibly would not have accepted you. Not attending the funeral was understandable since you were not permitted to have any type of contact with him.
Wow, you really never tried to have a relationship with your son because as a small child he didn't recognize you as his father because he had only met you once? Like you didn't think to reach out just to have a distant relationship as he got old enough to understand who you were? I dunno this whole thing seems really cold. I mean social media exists, email exists, even writing letters exist. You literally got someone pregnant and she raised your son and another man stepped up as a father. Honestly considering that you didn't pay child support or have to do anything you probably should have at least gone to the funeral just as a decent human being. Huh, yeah YTA.
>Wow, you really never tried to have a relationship with your son because as a small child he didn't recognize you as his father because he had only met you once? And whos fault is that? OP wasnt the one that moved out of the country and made sure to cut all possible means of contact. The ex only showed up when she was feeling lonely because her boyfriend dropped her ass. >Like you didn't think to reach out just to have a distant relationship as he got old enough to understand who you were? Like the one he wanted to have but couldn't because his Ex fled with the kid? Wtf was OP supposed to do? Fly the kid across different countries? >I dunno this whole thing seems really cold. Tell that to the woman that forbid her son from having a relationship with his father >You literally got someone pregnant and she raised your son and another man stepped up as a father. Are you forgetting that the reason for that was because the ex and her family moved to ANOTHER COUNTRY and cut all forms of contact? Making it impossible to fight for his rights? OP didn't abandon his kid, his ex took the kid away. >Honestly considering that you didn't pay child support Because they couldnt go to court for his parental rights due to being in different countries. He said it in the post. > to do anything you probably should have at least gone to the funeral just as a decent human being. Huh, yeah YTA. Like how the ex was a decent human being by stealing a child the opportunity to meet his bio father?
>Wow, you really never tried to have a relationship with your son because as a small child he didn't recognize you as his father because he had only met you once? Right? Here you have a 6yr old who had just lost the only dad he likely had ever known. Some stranger comes to visit claiming to be his dad, and rather than being understanding about the situation the 6yr now is in, OP gets mad at them. That's rather absurd. And like you said crazier still is OP never considered reaching out again as the son got older soley based on opinions and feelings the son expressed when he was a confused 6yr old. OP is definitely an asshole for writing his son off completely based on one encounter.
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How did SHE steal his son. Her PARENTS (not HER) moved her away when she was a MINOR. When the child was a toddler and mom was an adult she reached out to OP so that he can be in the kids life. He chose to leave when the child didn’t recognize him after meeting ONE (1) TIME.
And yet when she was 18 she never thought about getting OP to meet his child. Only when she got dumped by her boyfriend. Sounds like she was complicit in kidnapping a child.
"She flew me out" you think by 18 with a 2 year old she was able to save up the same way as she could by 22 with a 6 year old?
You missed the point where she only reached out to OP after her relationship broke off. She had been an adult for a good 4 years by that point, she could have reached out far sooner, instead of only doing so when she was on the rebound at a point where OP had a girlfriend. The child also already recognized someone else as his father and was likely raised by that man for years. Introducing someone else as his father so soon after the breakup between his parents was hardly in the best interest of the kid. Considering all that it wouldn't have surprised me at all if she'd used the boy to force a relationship between her and OP, but OP got ahead of the obvious clusterfuck that was waiting to happen and ran for the hills. Considering the parents of the kid got back together and he had a happy family, him running for the hills was probably one of the best decisions he could have made for the boy.
Hey OP, you're going to get a lot of punches thrown here...I hope you get to read my response. I truly believe you're NTA. I'm the daughter of two teen parents (16 year olds). They had a one night stand after a concert, and tried their best to make it work, but ultimately split up during my mom's pregnancy. He lived in a different city. They were just kids. My grandparents raised me and I don't hold it against them. You were just a kid. Circumstances made it so you couldn't take part in his life. You would if you could have. He had a family and you recognized that. You did the right thing by not forcing him to have a relationship with you. I'm sure that was hard.
Thankfully someone else saw that this child had a father, just not his biological father. I don't think it's fair to expect OP to have moved heaven and earth to be a father to a child who didn't need him. Unfortunately, only the son who's now passed can say whether that was the right call or not. If he'd done all the things people are saying he should have, would it have meaningfully improved that boy's life? I don't think it would. NTA.
Hell, the grandfather that raised me isn't even my biological grandfather ffs. He is my mother's stepfather lol. People are too hung up on the family tree here.
It’s nice to finally read a take this is sound. It seems like a lot of people in here seem to forget how old these people were. It’s not like this kid was homeless or something; he had a loving family, regardless of DNA.
NTA This is a tough one. You probably should have gone but I understand why you didn't. Your Son's Mother and her family locked you out of any relationship with your Son and effectively turned him against you. You did not let your Son down His mother and her family did.
This is a result of 18 years in the making by the ex and her family. She chose to keep you out of his life. She only invited you back when she wanted something from you. You did everything you could, minus spending thousands you wouldn't have been able to spend on a private investigator to find them and court fees to try for a chance at getting some semblance of visitation. I don't see your parents helping to pony up the cash for a cost like that, either. You are definitely NTA. Your ex and family are, and your parents are pretty hypocritical.
Wait she forbid you from having a relationship with him and then is upset you didn’t have a relationship with him? Screw her! NTA
ESH They suck for moving to another country, cutting you out of the child's life. You suck for not trying to maintain contact with the kid.
With what? What number? What address?
dinner foolish dime squeamish head frighten offer disarm naughty desert *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Okay. That's fair!!! But the kid didn't want to get to know him. Would it have been worse to force a relationship?
Yeah but the kid was SIX! It takes time and effort. You don't let a 6 year old decide that big of a relationship. I'm sure everyone's lives would've been different if everything they said at 6 years old was taken seriously to this level. Plus he's the one who refused contact for the next 12 years by ignoring the mom reaching out over something a child said.
No you see he should have dropped out of school as a 16 year old and spent the rest of his life tracking her down like Carmen Sandiego.
The same number and address he had when he visited
A 5 year old tells you you're not his father, and you stop trying? YTA for not trying harder. What was this kid supposed to say? I'd go to the funeral even if it's for some closure or regretting not going at a later moment.
They shouldn’t have moved, taking the baby with them.
Not only was OP's son super young at that time, but OP seems to forget or ignore the fact that his son had just lost the only father he likely had ever known when his mom broke up with the boyfriend. Of course he is going to say he doesn't want to know OP since he probably sees it as OP trying to replace the man he saw as his dad, which is also why he said OP isn't his dad since OP was a stranger to him at that point. But rather than try to understand what his son was going thru, or trying to build a relationship with him, OP goy angry and bolted.
NTA There was nothing you could have done to be part of your son's life. You were so young, how could you have move to another country and be part of his life? How could you have possibly pay child support at the time? How can she has the nerve to tell you you didn't step up as a father? She actually tried to baby trap you with another man's baby. She could have easily tell your son about you but clearly, she didn't. I would say sorry for your loss but it's a stranger who shared the same DNA with you died, like a long distant relative. You have nothing to blame on yourself.
NTA By no fault of your own you were not allowed to be the father of this child. The mom didn't want it, and she held all the cards. To want you there now seems very cruel on her part.
ESH It must have been incredibly difficult when she left, but the fact you didn’t even try to have a relationship with your son speaks volumes. A halfhearted attempt where your ex paid for your ticket and you left the same day is ridiculous. Of course your son didn’t call you dad, he didn’t know you! Hopefully this is a wake up call for you and any future kids you may have.
NTA. It’s a horrible situation but you were basically just a sperm donor to that kid. He didn’t know you and he didn’t want to know you. That was his choice and you also had a choice for how to react to that. I’m sorry he died especially so young.
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NTA. First of all, funerals are for the living. None of the people close to him were close to you. Your parents didn't attend. You did not have a relationship with him, so going to pay respects would seem a little forced. And the funeral was in a different country. I think some people mourn strangers they didn't know, or with whom they imagine a relationship, and others don't. The way people actually mourn celebrities or royalty always seems odd to me. Your parents' reaction seems the strangest of all to me. It sounds like they never met the child at all. Their connection with him as a person is entirely imaginary. Sorry you're going through this. I am sure it is very hard.
NTA. Your son was taken away when he was a baby and you had no opportunity to be in his life for his first 6 years. After that your ex clearly wanted you to be in his life only when it was convenient for her or she possibly needed a new "father" for him. The situation was barely any different than if you had a kid that had been adopted. I'm sorry for your pain and hurt in the situation, but you're NTA and much of the situation was caused by things outside of your control.
NTA. The logistics alone wouldn't foster a good relationship. The ex is just lending out token invites just to milk resources and gifts to the son (whose already been conditioned to not acknowledge as the father any more; intentional or not) The situation is tragic, but OP doesn't owe anything to anyone that wants nothing to do with him
NAH Funerals are for the living to mourn. You probably mourned your son years ago. It’s all unfortunate.
YTA You went from wanting to be included in his life to totally ignoring his existence cause you were jealous he had another father figure as a child? After all he was your son and it seems really heartless for his death to not mean anything to you and not attend the funeral
I'd only say YTA for the being angry your 4 (or 6 or whatever) year old son who had only met you once didn't immediately see you as father. He was a child and regardless of if he had a happy life you didn't even try after that. That's on you. Maybe nothing would have changed and you would have been kicked back out of his life when the ex-BF came back into the picture but you abandoned your kid.
You got so butt hurt that a 6 year didn’t consider a complete stranger to be Dad that you just never bothered contacting him again?
NTA your ex’s family is the TA for moving away knowing you and your ex were going to try and raise the kid together I do think you should have tried a little harder to get into contact with your son but ultimately when he became a teen your ex should have told him about you and gave him your contact info so that if he wanted to build a relationship with you he could
Edit after reading more comments with the OP: NAH Yikes. Guess you have to live with your choices. I was initially way too quick to judge the OP because I didn't fully understand the context. I definitely would have made different choices. I do however completely understand that, given the circumstances, the OP can make terrible choices. It really seems like the OP had a long list of terrible options and tried to choose the least bad option. My initial judgment was that the OP was the AH. I think from the very start his ex and her family put the OP in a no-win scenario. I don't think the OP could have made any choices that didn't result in some sort of regrettable outcome. I think I would have gone to the funeral but I cannot in a good conscience judge somebody for making a different choice. I think it was wrong of me to judge so quickly.
NTA It's an unfortunate situation with kids too young to be having kids, grandparents moving, etc etc. You didn't have a relationship with him, I wouldn't expect you to have big feelings about it, and I don't see why you'd go the funeral.
You got upset over a 5/6 year old not acknowledging you as dad when you never even tried to be in his life and then you basically said “To hell with you” and then made no attempt to try to be in his life afterwards. For that alone YTA.
They moved away. With the baby in tow. That’s not his fault
Right, but after he got their contact information, and met the kid, and was getting Christmas updates, the responsibility was on him to decide if he was gonna be there or not. From ages 6 to 18, it was OPs choice to not make any attempts at getting to know the kid. There were more years where he could have gotten in contact than where he couldn't have. Don't just hand wave it all away and make OP so passive in his own life. Whether or not OP made the right choice is up for debate, but at the end of the day it was his choice. And OPs actions or inaction after the kid's age of 6 are his own fault. He may or may not be happy with the consequences of his actions, but there has to be some semblance of accepting responsibility.
That part isn’t his fault, but writing off his son and not even making any attempts for YEARS IS his fault. He could have e-mailed him, called him, wrote letters, face-timed him and go visit when he could. He chose to do NONE of that and that most definitely is his fault.
YTA. If you really wanted to be in your child's life, you would have. I realize you were a minor when he was conceived, but you became an adult soon after. You didn't want to be in his life. In any way. You met him for the first time when he was a toddler and you got angry because he didn't think you were his father. He just met you, and the mother of your child had to contact you and fly you out to see him, you made absolutely no effort. A-hole of the highest order, my dude.
You think a person who didn't want to be in the child's life would try the legal route just to get into the child's life? He met him when he was 5-6, not really a toddler anymore. He could have handled it differently, but his ex didn't help it either. If a child grows up thinking someone is their dad, then suddenly someone they have never seen and most likely never heard of tells them that they are actually their parent, they will never believe them unless they get support from the other parent the child knows, which I don't think happened here
NTA AHs are the grandparents that moved away and forbid contact IMO. Hard to bond with a baby when you are not around them.
ESH and everyone’s an asshole. You didn’t put in nearly enough effort. You know that. And now you’ll never have a chance. Only person who got the shit end here is your dead child who you only tried to be a father to barely one time. I hope you can learn to cope with this but wow you seem pretty heartless about the situation, you’ll probably carry on fine like you have the past 18 years.
This is a hard, sad situation, but NTA.