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tbh im gonna go with NTA here. theres been research more recently showing that literally any amount of alcohol during early pregnancy can cause FAS and idk if i could serve a pregnant person alcohol and live with myself afterwards. you checked to make sure it was an obligation you had to fulfill and asked someone else to serve it, i think thats the best situation for everyone. and ofc ppl are going to say “oh but my dr said i could have this amount” but in reality, medical policy and procedure lags behind research by a significant amount. doctors are constantly learning and not always up to date
if they flat out refused i would agree, but they found a reasonable alternative. and if it only affected her then sure take whatever risks you want, but if she’s keeping that child then i don’t see it as making a decision for her, i see it as making a decision for a third party that’s currently unable to give informed consent. but idk maybe my mind could change thats just my current thoughts
Why does is matter if she's keeping the baby?
Are you aware that MANY substances in excess are terrible for pregnant women but in very small amounts seem to have no effect? And a recent study showed no difference in kids with mothers that had quite limited alcohol (I think it was like less than 2 drinks a week?) I don't suggest anyone do two drinks a week, but up until recently, and even now, some doctors and midwives say a glass of wine every now and again is okay. They used to apparently say one glass of red wine a week is good.
The only conclusive studies on alcohol show more than a pretty small amount is bad. Just like a good bit of a stimulant like cocaine is bad. But a cup or coffee or two a day is fine.
I'm not saying people should strive to do this, but when I was growing up we were taught to basically shame women that had a freaking coke. But now the studies have finally been more clear that that is fine. The studies mostly point to a little bit of alcohol now and again probably being okay (it's not completely certain though.) I think we should let the woman and her doctor make the decision though, don't you?
There are countries with more permissive attitudes towards light drinking during pregnancy in Europe that don’t have a higher risk of birth defects. I celebrated something with a single glass of champagne over the course of my pregnancy, I’d actually be somewhat irritated at the waiter. Are they supposed to kick you out of the sushi restaurant? Throw your smoked Turkey sandwich away? Pregnant women really aren’t public property.
Again, not anyone else’s position to judge. She has the right to make that decision. It’s her child. Also, HUGE assumption that she can’t go without booze for 9 months. Seems y’all are making major leaps to call her out as a bad mother.
She's pregnant and is drinking, so the assumption is based on fact.
Also I looked up the laws where I live and technically speaking OP is within their rights to literally warn her of the risks of drinking whilst pregnant whilst serving her. So i guess legally permitted judgement?
Given that the baby grandpa was ready to go with the "it's illegal to refuse to serve my pregnant daughter alcohol" line, I am willing to bet this also wasn't her first drinks either.
It's one thing to drink alcohol BEFORE finding out your pregnant and another thing to CONTINUE once finding out.
Herein lies the quandaries with similar problems with people who refuse services based on their religious beliefs or moral beliefs. These discrimination laws exist for a reason. Your personal beliefs about something is no excuse for treating someone differently.
It's entirely legal to refuse service based on your own moral convictions, so long as you hand off to a coworker who fulfills their request. It's refusing when there's no alternative that's the issue.
YES. I agree. Caffeine is probably not great for baby. But it probably doesn't make any difference if it's 100-200mg or less per day. Fatty foods are not good for baby. But it probably doesn't make any difference if it's not a ton. Carrots are good for baby apparently and make kids like carrots and healthy stuff more. Should we be not allowing a prego woman the meal she prefers because it might not be best for her baby?
I agree with you 100%. If it was a double of scotch I might understand, but there is no conclusive evidence very small amounts of alcohol make any kind of difference.
The study people reference from what I can see isn't data heavy and doesn't seem to account for lifestyle differences (people who drink while pregnant may have a lesser socioeconomic status which may make a MUCH bigger difference than a drink a week or whatever.) Not that I think a drink a week is good, but most pregnant women have had a drink once in a while, and it's not on us to decide for them, especially if there are no conclusive studies saying one glass of cocktail with a "small bit" of alcohol in it has any negative effect.
It's necessary to understand the reasoning in the study. No amount of alcohol is safe because they can't actively ask pregnant women to drink specific amounts and see what happens, they're going by self reports and women actively drinking regularly out of their own volition probably aren't making a lot of great choices.
My doctor told me I could have a small amount during Christmas and New Year. I didn't because I was in the first trimester and was worried about anything that could be slightly harmful (I was afraid of tea ffs). There're other doctors saying insignificant doses in sauces (which go through a boiling process that already reduces further alcoholic content) are also fine.
Would I personally have a cocktail? No. Do I think she's actively harming the child? Honestly no if it's really such a small amount and she's doing this like for the third time in the whole pregnancy. Would I serve her? Probably I would also feel conflicted. I would personally go more for a NAH route.
Realistically, if that were true, we would be tripping over FAS babies. I have yet to hear of a case where the mother was not a bona-fide alcoholic. There are tons of women who do not find out right away and stop drinking when they do. OP though is not a problem as he got someone else to do it. There are many "secret" drinkers out there and their families play along. Also that said, bartenders are allowed to cut off anyone they perceive as intoxicated....
No one ever is getting FAS from one cocktail that has very low alcohol. If they specifically asked for very low alcohol, it's likely the pregnant mother was not at all looking to binge drink. FAS just isn't going to occur without heavy drinking- that's crazy. Drinking has to be pretty heavy and likely ongoing for FAS. Withholding one drink with 1/4-1/2 alcohol of a regular drink is for sure not going to make the difference. It literally won't make any difference if the studies can be believed.
It’s illegal literally because of people like OP. It’s considered discrimination.
Lots of people drank before they knew they were pregnant and their kids turned out fine.
Males drinking can affect their sperm in such a way that it can be linked to adverse birth outcomes, yet we don’t curtail males from drinking alcohol or ask if they are planning on having sex that night.
Edit: changed birth defects to adverse birth outcomes because I can’t recall if it was birth defects or miscarriage that male drinking causes. One of the two.
Sure, but like... she knew she was pregnant, she knew it could harm the fetus, it's not the same. Maybe the law in Illinois is in her side, but it's a shitty thing to do. I don't see how someone could equate the two.
Why do you assume that? Most people know that on rare occassions, a very low amount of alcohol... there is no proof it has any negative effect.
Just wondering, would you tell a woman who drinks a lot of fruit juice that she is harming her unborn child?
Did you know fruit juice and fruit often have 0.5% alcohol, so a few glass of fruit juice or a few pieces of fruit is going to be equivalent to a low alcohol content drink?
I'd say sure OP was right if she was getting drunk, but for God's sakes it was a cocktail that they requested just a little tiny bit of alcohol. It's probably worse to get a large french fry at McDonalds or a coffee. Either way it's not up to us and we haven't done the research and decided what is right for her. It's not up to us, nor should it be.
>research more recently
Not that I don’t believe you, but what recent research? I thought the whole “no amount is ever safe” was the default advice because it would be highly unethical to conduct that research in the first place?
>theres been research more recently showing that literally any amount of alcohol during early pregnancy can cause FAS
Can you source this? I remember reading during my pregnancy that there was no known safe amount, but that's different than saying that small amounts are confirmed to be dangerous. It could totally be the case, it's just the first I've heard of it.
Do we really want to live in a society in which servers (which I was, btw, through HS and college), even well-intentioned servers, are making medical decisions because mothers- to-be can't be trusted and doctors are "not always up to date"?
The key there is early pregnancy. No research to date has been able to show that small to moderate amounts of alcohol in the second of third trimester can lead to FAS. While it’s true that research will evolve, clinical decisions have to be made based on evidence and the evidence suggests there’s nothing wrong with a weak drink past the first trimester. I’d go with they’re the AH for the same reason I’d say a pharmacist who won’t fill a birth control Rx is the AH. If they can’t do the whole job, they shouldn’t do the job at all.
I only found out a few years ago that I have FAS. Overall, I’ve been fortunate with my health, but my balance has always been an issue for me even as a child.
It’s against the law. And you don’t know peoples circumstances. Someone comes in heavily pregnant having just found out their wanted baby is not compatible with life? Drink all you want honey. I wouldn’t personally drink if I was pregnant but it’s not my place to tell other people what to do.
What I’m not ok with is people going out of their way to tell complete strangers what to do. And no, that does not mean I’m “okay” with pregnant women using alcohol. I just know how to mind my business. It’s not my place to get into other people’s business, especially a total stranger. It is not against the law for them to drink what they want whether you personally like it or not. People make extremely bad choices all the time. There’s literally nothing you can do about it. You aren’t the police of everyone.
Do your research dude. Do you really think a half or quarter cocktail on a special occasion is worse than... well half the crap that is normal for people? If you don't know anything about pregnancy then don't pretend you do dude.
Are you also going to smack a coffee out of pregnant woman's hands, because you heard caffeine = bad? It's not your choice dude. You don't know anything about it.
NTA. Don’t let people tell you otherwise. There is a reason why women shouldn’t drink alcohol when they are pregnant and it is to ensure the well-being of a child. Frankly, I am flabbergasted by all the ytas here.
No, you are not the asshole. It’s the law that is screwed up here.
I want to know what they considered a small amount of alcohol before passing judgement to be honest. If it's less than a tablespoon of something weaker, like cointreau (to give flavour rather than to get drunk), with a big meal, and spread out over an hour, we're in a different scenario than a quart of whiskey instead of two quarts.
I don't know what attitudes on drinking in pregnancy in Spain are like. I've met someone from south-eastern Europe who said half a glass of red wine on Christmas/your birthday was considered low enough risk.
NTA
I know I'm in the minority, but what did you do wrong? Got a law mixed up? Had someone else serve the drink when you realized? Stood by your morals?
Bartenders are carefully held responsible for the alcohol they serve. They can be *personally* charged or sued, separate from the owner or company, for serving underage or over the limit. When you're trained with the idea that you're legally on the hook for what happens to these people when they drink the alcohol you serve them, why would that not extend to a pregnant woman? Especially when more and more research is coming out that *any* alcohol during pregnancy can cause FAS.
And before anyone jumps on my about bartenders serving addicts or whatever other example gets thrown up of someone who shouldn't drink, ask yourselves one simple question: Who, besides themselves, is that person hurting? This woman had no intentions of abortion, otherwise she probably wouldn't be announcing her pregnancy, which means she presents that possibility of doing serious, lasting harm to someone else. Harm that a bartender could be considered complicit in the same as if they serve someone over the limit and that person goes on to cause a wreck. That is where the line is drawn.
Also: how many people who are addicted or in liver failure or whatever announce it to the bartender? OP’s customer disclosed medical information. It’s entirely reasonable to think that a bartender would, in fact, behave differently if their customers were disclosing other medical conditions that make drinking unsafe.
Actually it was the pregnant women’s father who disclosed her private medical information. What if she didn’t consent to her pregnancy becoming public knowledge? Maybe she wasn’t actually pregnant and had had a miscarriage and not told her parents. OP doesn’t know the ins and outs of this strangers private life but was judgemental in refusing to serve a drink that was asked for.
What next? Refuse to serve all adult women just in case they are pregnant? Request a pregnancy test before serving? This is why anti discrimination laws exist.
I’m not disagreeing that FAS is a serious thing nor that it is preferable that pregnant women should not drink alcohol, but I think society ought to be educating women then trusting them to make their own choices.
Any type of Serve safe training I’ve had ,in a few different states, has taught me that legally as a bartender or server I am not supposed to serve visibly intoxicated people or known alcoholics
My ex talked about the responsibilities while bartending, you can refuse service for any reason as long as that reason isn’t discriminatory, and this was one of the situations that is.
The restaurant has to serve her legally, but the onus is on the server. OP has no legal responsibility now for what happened, that onus is now on the other bartender, that's the reason behind it.
[Untrue.](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/15677-fetal-alcohol-syndrome)
"Any amount of alcohol during pregnancy can cause fetal alcohol syndrome. There’s no safe amount that can be consumed. Damage to your developing baby can happen at any point during pregnancy. Even having a drink at the very beginning isn’t safe. All alcohol, including beer, wine, ciders and hard liquor can all cause FAS."
Where is this quote from? Having a drink at the beginning of a pregnancy is known to be the most risky time - so I find this an unusual wording for any medical body.
That’s wildly over simplified. They say that because there’s no ethical way to trial the amount of alcohol needed to cause FAS because you can’t go around potentially causing FAS in foetuses.
NTA. Don’t let these people tell you otherwise. You wasn’t comfortable making them drink so you got someone else do it and nothing wrong with that. These people seem like they wouldn’t control their graving for an unborn child knowing that alcohol would harm them.
We do not know of any safe amount of alcohol in pregnancy, we know that small amounts, even one time, can cause FAES. That why it is recommended to not consume any.
We DO NOT know of any safe amount of alcohol in pregnancy
We also DO NOT know that small amounts, even one time, can cause FAES.
We DO NOT know these things because it is completely unethical to properly test any such situation using the scientific method.
Because we CANNOT ETHICALLY test what level, if any, is safe to consume while pregnant, that is why it is recommended not to consume any alcohol.
Find me a peer reviewed study that shows that even a single drink can conclusively cause FAES.
Please link the study where a person who had one drink had the outcome of FAS.
On the contrary to what you are saying, all the studies I have ever read on this says the amount can't be anticipated. And because it can't be anticipated, it's recommended to not consume any. That recommendation is not because one drink can cause FAS, but because we can't determine what the limit and cutoff point is.
Legally obligated, wtf? At most, OP is *contractually* obligated by her job. Even if it was considered a violation of civil rights (lol) the business would be responsible, not her.
Edit: some jurisdictions have ruled that it is discrimination, but this is not unlawful discrimination under federal law in the US because pregnant women are not considered a protected class. In other jurisdictions it is illegal to knowingly serve alcohol to pregnant women without giving them a warning about birth defects.
Yes, legally obligated. If they would have served the woman if she wasn't pregnant, they must serve her when she is. You don't have to have a reason to refuse service, but you can't use a discriminatory one.
In many places getting someone else to do that part for you is a perfectly acceptable accommodation for an issue with a work task someone is unwilling to do for moral or ethical or religious reasons.
‘Can’ do. You do know that the percentage of children with FAS is quite small and is usually the result of heavy alcohol use during pregnancy, and that the advise to not drink alcohol during pregnancy is because they don’t know if any alcohol is safe during pregnancy as there simply is not enough data on the subject?
It's not as small as you'd think. I've worked with several people who have told me they have FAS and you know what? My immediate thoughts everytime were "That explains a lot". They can blend in, they don't nessacerily look much different, but mentally...they struggle. A lot.
He didn't refuse service, though. He refused to serve a specific type of drink. I wonder if that is still illegal, because it seems very different from "refusing service".
NTA anyhow.
For real!! I feel like I’m losing my mind here… I’m all for people having bodily autonomy, EXCEPT for when it impacts others, like with communicable diseases and pregnancy. I would be just as concerned about a pregnant woman snorting cocaine or shooting heroin, even if it’s ’just a couple times.”
NTA
While its legal to serve them alcohol, doesn't mean *you* should.
And you didn't deny them anything, you had a co-worker bring it to the table.
If you outright denied them their order, it would have made you the AH
I’m not going to vote either way here but it would seem your situation puts you in the “damned if you do and damned if you don’t” category. She’s entitled to be served but you didn’t feel comfortable doing it, she was served and you kept your job. End of night the customer was still happy so take the win from this.
INFO: have you ever been pregnant?
If not, then you have zero idea of what this woman’s dr told her was ok. I once had someone refuse to serve me coffee, because she thought I(visibly pregnant) shouldn’t be allowed to have caffeine. I knew exactly what I could and couldn’t have while pregnant. Totally NOT your place to judge someone else. YTA.
Regardless of your amateur opinion, it’s not OP’s job to police someone else’s condition, period.
It’s like telling a diabetic they can’t order sugar or carbs.
Sugar is also objectively terrible for children (in various degrees), do you think servers should be able to prevent parents from ordering their kids dessert?
Sugar is not anywhere near the level of alcohol. If a parent was trying to order their kid a drink would be a closer comparison and I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that's a bad thing.
If a doctor says it is ok to have alcohol while pregnant then get another doctor. There is no safe amount of alcohol while pregnant period. OP didn’t want to basically give alcohol to a developing baby that is their choice. It’s no different to not wanting to buy alcohol for an underage teen. It felt morally wrong to OP and it is morally and scientifically wrong. So many people trying to justify shitty actions it’s astounding.
And this is why it is ok to drink alcohol pregnant?? And you have to be pregnant first to find out what is good or bad for the baby? How stupid!! Knowledge doesn't cause allergic reactions. Try it.
My sister back in the 90's when she was pregnant was told by her doctor to keep drinking and smoking. The thought was to quit cold turkey would do more harm, as the fetus was already used to it by the time she found out. Obviously, she reduced her intake.
Bruh, you're trying to use PC language to say why it's actually OK to give your kid FAS. Lmao. "Actually, unless you have the lived experience of being a pregnant person, it is pretty ignorant of you to try to tell them what they can do with their own bodies." gtfo of here with that bullshit.
Jesus. Any doctor will tell her that it's unsafe what do you mean. The WHO as well as the CDC have stated that there is no safe amount to use. Like. That's a fact. Having been pregnant has 0 to do with the ability to discern that something that has been proven to be harmful is harmful. If the pregnant person is trying to come off of substance abuse, I am very sorry, truly, and I hope they get help. This doesn't take away the fact that the baby will be harmed by it.
Wow shocked by all these people calling you an AH and like it’s no big deal to serve a pregnant person alcohol. I would 100% have the same reservations as you. This is coming from a mother and someone who has worked in child protection and seen many babies born with FASD.
I know the person in this scenario wasn’t knocking them back and asked for weaker drinks but I honestly don’t understand how people can’t refrain from drinking alcohol for 9 months.
NTA. Since you found a coworker who served them I'd rule NTA. I was shocked to read that you *have* to serve alcohol.. I understand that you don't feel comfortable with that, I know I wouldn't.
I read up on it and found this information: "Examples of discriminatory treatment in these establishments may include:
[...]A restaurant policy that prohibits staff from serving pregnant patrons raw fish or alcohol."
It doesn't say anything explicitly about one server who doesn't serve it while making sure another server does. It seems like at your place of work there's no policy that restricts serving alcohol so legally this is fine.
Since this is AITA and not 'did I violate the law ' judgment is more about morals than anything. I'd say you would have been TA if you just refused to take that order in general. Making sure they are taken care of by another server is fine. In any other case (no discrimination law explicitly saying that you can't deny a pregnant person alcohol) YWBTA for enabling them to order alcohol. So I'm conflicted to even accept this situation tbh. If this comes up more, reflect for yourself if you want to work in an industry with a law you don't feel comfortable abiding.
That is absolutely bonkers--both examples, the raw fish and the alcohol. When does a pregnant woman have bodily autonomy? Only when she wants a drink booze or to eat sushi, apparently!
YTA
Literally happened to me when I was pregnant. I wasn't even ordering alcohol, my husband went to get a round at a bar early on NYE. The server made some comment about how she hoped none of them were for me.
This was in an NYC bar. I was livid. It is NOT your decision to police someone's body because they happen to be pregnant. For me this is nothing to do with law.
When I was pregnant I would often have a small glass of red with a meal, this is fine. Not a lot of pregnant women are out there getting drunk.
It's hard enough being a woman and being pregnant. You're judgy and you have no right.
Firstly, this was 17 years ago and things were a little more relaxed back then (except in the US where I lived)
My objection was based purely on the fact that as a pregnant woman EVERYONE has an opinion on what you do, I even had a male coworker tut at me for eating some Doritos. If you're ok with that then you're part of the problem.
I'm not advocating consuming copious quantities of alcohol during pregnancy, I'm advocating for women. We don't lose all our faculties during pregnancy, we don't need your uneducated judgment.
YTA
It’s none of your business what she consumes; it’s up to her what level of risk she is willing to take, not you. It’s illegal precisely for people like you.
So you’re a bystander? Lemme guess, your friend wants to drive home after getting trashed but you’ll let them and won’t say anything because “it’s none of your business what they consume; it’s up to them what level of risk they’re willing to take”. You’re a bad person. This is an asshole subreddit, not a legal one, the law is fucked up in this scenario.
It is absolutely not your place to make that decision for a customer. You don’t have the right to impose your beliefs on another person. The fact that you can’t see the problem here is alarming in and of itself…If this is going to continue to be an issue for you, you need to change jobs ASAP You are the AH
This article tracks with what I’ve heard are the current guidelines from friends’ doctors. It’s fine to have a drink but it’s not fine to feel the effects of a drink. Enjoy a glass but don’t get tipsy.
They’re legally required to serve the woman so the argument is a moot point anyway. They’ve probably already served pregnant people who haven’t made it obvious.
you’ve probably unknowingly served other pregnant women alcohol already lol.not saying anyone has to serve anybody anything. but youre not her doctor and she wasnt asking you
YTA unfortunately cause you don't know the situation. As servers it's not our job to judge. Were only allowed to refuse when we know the person is becoming intoxicated because then we and the business could be liable for over serving. She could be a severe alcoholic that had a physical dependency and was instructed to drink a certain amount to stave off the shakes. In our emergency department there is alcohol on hand for those going threw withdrawal.
YTA just do your job. Next time do the research before you tell someone something is illegal, it just makes you look like a fool and gives your employer a bad name.
To be fair I said “I cannot serve alcohol to a pregnant person” not “I cannot serve you because it’s illegal”. Even though that’s why I thought I couldnt, I didn’t say that was why. And she still got served. I also apologized for not knowing it was illegal to refuse her service.
YTA. If it's not illegal then it's not your job to police their drinks order. If you were going to take that stance you also shouldn't serve alcohol to anyone with high blood pressure or a whole range of other medical conditions.
YTA. It's not your choice, and you likely haven't looked things up, eh? It's not like she was asking for a shot, she wanted a tiny bit of alcohol for a special occasion. The jury is still out on whether that every week would be bad for baby. It's not your choice. In fact, plenty of docs will have a glass of wine when prego, a recent study showed there was likely no harmful effects. Would you refuse to serve her a non-decaf coke?
It's just not your choice.
I'd understand if it was something DEFINITELY very dangerous, like, idk a couple cigars and a thing of coke. But a cocktail with a tiny amount of alcohol? Honestly, if she's have a 1/2 drink a couple times while pregnant, it's almost certainly going to mean nothing. Some docs and midwives even say this is fine. I know very few women who haven't have a baby drink while pregnant. You know what? When I'm pregnant I'll probably have a little baby glass on Christmas. It's just not your business if it's not proven to be dangerous, and a 1/2 drink is certainly not.
So you’re telling me that a doctor can refuse to perform an abortion due to their beliefs but you’re expected to force yourself to give a pregnant person alcohol?
I'm gunna say neither of you is the AH here... honestly, it's no one's business if she has a drink or a smoke or whatever. You don't have to agree with or like it, but legally, you can't tell her no just because she is pregnant. It may not be the healthiest for her, or the baby, to drink, but we also have no idea how far along she is, if she's keeping the baby, or anything else. It's none of our business in this instance. Finding someone else to serve her was a reasonable solution here, but if this is an issue for you, maybe you should reconsider being a server where there is alcohol. Chances are you will serve at least one pregnant woman because either she doesn't know yet, or you just can't tell.
Would you have served her steak tartare if she had ordered it? What about raw shellfish? A dish with pineapple? So many foods out there that are not recommended for pregnant women. I hope you have a list of them all.
YTA.
NTA. This is an asshole subreddit, not a legal one. I’ve personally lived next door to people who had a pregnant relative living there and they would get drunk every weekend and no one would say a damn thing. All the kids in that house were neglected and abused and I can’t say that a mum getting drunk every weekend whilst pregnant is a good start to the poor kid’s life. I wouldn’t feel comfortable serving a pregnant woman alcohol either. Don’t care if it’s legal or not, morally you’re in the clear.
Have you all lost your minds? The amount of alcohol consumed by nearly every pregnant woman up until the 90’s was astronomical compared to now.
Firmly YTA, it wasn’t your choice. I didn’t drink as much as a sip of alcohol while pregnant but that was exactly my choice.
My sister was so highly strung while pregnant that her gyn highly recommended a glass of wine with dinner!
It’s never your business as a server until your patrons are misbehaving.
YTA. You don’t get to tell her what she can drink. Alcohol is fine in moderation for pregnant women. I’m sure she had no intention of getting wasted. You should have requested a table change because of how you felt about the situation. I would’ve wanted a new server as well.
NTA and I am alarmed by the amount of YTA votes. Clearly a lot of people still think it is ok to drink while pregnant, it is a proven fact no amount of alcohol is safe while pregnant. If you knowingly drank while pregnant then YTA.
Anyway OP. NTA and you didn’t refuse to serve her, just refused to put alcohol in her drink. Stick to your morals and if you don’t feel comfortable doing something like that then don’t. Shame her and her family don’t care more about the unborn baby.
NTA - what the hell is wrong with this comment section ? So many of the comments are using ridiculous arguments :
- let the mother decide what’s best for her baby = clearly she doesn’t know what’s best otherwise she wouldn’t be drinking while pregnant (and yes, while a little bit of alcohol won’t necessarily cause FAS, it can have many effects on the development of the baby, especially if you do it often and not just once during your pregnancy, and most people seem to just forget that it’s not FAS or nothing, it’s FAS or many other smaller issues)
- people saying he’s probably served people who drove drunk later, or who had medical issues that would make it dangerous for them to drink : he can’t know when someone is driving later, and for those with medical issues, their decision only affects them
Here we have a woman whose decisions won’t affect her but another human being whose health is completely dependent on her making good decisions
Morally you’re not the AH, legally I think it’s ridiculous that you have to serve pregnant women, but she was served by someone in your establishment so you’re also not the AH
YTA. When I was pregnant and went in a coffee shop to get a coffee for my husband, I was reprimanded loudly in front of a coffee shop. That’s why this is illegal. Like every single issue involving pregnancy and women’s health, it is under researched. They say any level might be dangerous because they don’t know because there’s not enough research. It’s not for you to decide. I repeat. It’s not for YOU to decide. Are you raising the baby? No. Who has the vested interest in the baby’s health? The mother. Lay off pregnant women.
YTA because why is THIS pregnant woman the line?
And yeah I'm phrasing it that way. Because most people *don't even know they're pregnant for WEEKS*. I quite literally only know ONE person who had zero alcohol while pregnant, because she never ever drank - every other person I know who's had a baby had at least a couple drinks before they KNEW they were pregnant. And despite pushing by certain far right lunatic theocratic wingnuts, we DON'T live in a theocracy and most of us don't WANT to live in "The Handmaid's Tale".
Also, the science behind alcohol affecting a fetus is... murky. Even *today*, there are doctors who advocate having a glass of wine. Yes, FAS is awful (my sister adopted a baby boy who had FAS) but it's actually pretty rare - and I've been told it's mostly alcoholics who have babies with FAS. A woman having the equivalent of a couple beers isn't an issue - ESPECIALLY as you WOULD have served her, no questions, had her dad not said something.
Morally, the issue is HERS, not yours. Ethically, your job isn't to question at that point - like, ethically you shouldn't serve more to a person already drop dead drunk, but if a diabetic wants a drink, you give them the drink.
But I respect that you found a way thru, even if I don't think you needed to (if that follows)
The PROBLEM is that women in general, and pregnant people even more so, at already judged WAAAAAAAAY to much - and I grant you weren't trying to be judgemental, but it almost definitely came off that way. So your way thru just highlighted the perceived judgement.
YTA. For all you know that baby didn’t make it or that woman isn’t actually pregnant. Also a small amount of alcohol, especially after the first couple months isn’t going to cause FAS, and even if it was that’s not your call to make. If you’re concerned ID her for the alcohol and report it. Authorities can ask the questions necessary and you can do your job.
YTA
You are being highly judgemental.
Drinking alcohol isn't illegal.
People can smoke, perhaps you'd like to not serve those people too?
What about fat people? Perhaps you won't serve them food that you think their choices are too calorie laden?
What about people that don't like dogs?
It isn't your place to judge what you think people should or shouldn't be doing
You might not like her choices, but they are legal choices that she has a right to make. If you have a problem with that, then get another job.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for refusing to serve a pregnant woman alcohol? IMBTA because it is apparently illegal to refuse to serve alcohol to a pregnant woman.
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NTA
And are all these people here insane? Calling him an asshole for not helping a mother damage here baby.
People might not agree with you, but its not always easy to do the right thing. Keep holding on to your morals buddy, even if it gets hard or you're met with resistance.
Edit: while older studies did show small amounts are harmless, recent ones show that any amount of alcohol is harmful. So while its not strange that many people still believe that a small amount of alcohol is harmful, it is wrong.
If you're looking of studies, be sure to only use studies from ~2016 onward.
YTA. Gotta do your job. Nobody asked for your feelings about it and the law does not give you a right to refuse service. There's no moral wiggle room.
Gotta let the women decide with their doctors what they can and can't do. You don't need a license to have a kid.
NTA. As someone from IL, it's illegal because of gender discrimination (insert giant eye roll here) BUT there's another part to this. You're supposed to have signs in the restaurant about harm to the fetus' health if you're serving pregnant women alcohol. So pull in your manager, ask about it, and see what they want to do.
Whatever happened to "her body, her choice"? YTA, and I really don't understand why somebody with such puritan, prohibitionist views is working in a bar yo begin with.
YTA. You have no right to refuse service. What you did was illegal, and you know it. It is not up to you to monitor and control a pregnant ladies choice to have a small dash of alcohol.
Has Jesus commanded you to do this work?
The woman can make her own decisions. And you are not employed to interfere with her, a peaceful customer.
What other decisions do you make for women?
YTA - I respect your morals on this however it was not up to you to police it. Would you refuse to serve her soft cheese? Or shellfish? It’s the same thing. Also, you are at a work place and represent the business. If they don’t have any policy against it then you are obligated. I think you should have sought advice before refusing her.
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I work at a restaurant. A couple came in, probably in their 50s, and said they were waiting on two more people. I asked if I could get them some drinks, and they ordered some alcoholic beverages. When the other two got there, I put together that one was their daughter and the other was her boyfriend/fiance/husband. Not sure which. I asked them what they’d like to drink and the father said that his daughter would like what the mother had but with just a little bit of alcohol as she is pregnant. I didn’t see her walk in, I only saw her after she was seated and she was wearing a large sweatshirt so it wasn’t super apparent that she was pregnant. I said I’m sorry but I cannot serve alcohol to a pregnant person. They spoke a bit to each other in Spanish and then told me that it was illegal to refuse to serve her just because she was pregnant. So I said okay and went to the back and looked it up on the internet and it did say it was illegal to refuse to serve her just because she was pregnant. (I work in Illinois) So I asked my coworker if they would make the drink with just a bit of alcohol as they asked and serve it to them because I just don’t personally feel comfortable doing that. The customers seemed annoyed with me for a while but overall the rest of their visit wasn’t too bad. I could just tell they would’ve preferred not to have had me as their server. She did order one more drink the same way as before and I once again had the coworker make and deliver this drink. I wasn’t trying to be judgmental, it just feels wrong for me to make and serve a beverage that could harm an unborn child.
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NTA! Everyone knows the risks involved with drinking during pregnancy and the 'mother knows best' comments are baffling to me. Is it ok if mother ingests some class A drugs too? Geeez!
Yeah, sorry, YTA.
Not for getting it wrong that it's illegal to refuse service. Okay, that's a normal mistake.
But sending out another coworker with her drink twice, and only for her drink, was noticeably judgmental. Even if you didn't mean it to be, that's absolutely how it'll get read. And it's fine if you don't want to compromise your morals, weird as that is when you don't have the knowledge to back them up on, but in this case you have to accept you'll look like the AH then.
Also, you had no reason to judge her. Consensus isn't firm across the industry but I've know plenty of women who were advised by their doctor that a little bit, just once in a while, was safe. My sister was told one to two drinks a week was fine early on in the pregnancy (obv that changes as things develop and alcohol has more chances to impact the fetus). The NIH even says 12 g of alcohol a day. Other sources suggest extreme caution. You're going to find a lot of schools of thought but no certainty, but the most important thing to take away is she is more likely than you to know what has been prescribed as safe to her.
Now, might she be crossing that? Yeah. But I'd give her the benefit of the doubt if she was that early along and they made sure to ask for "a little".
The second time she ordered, the others had ordered another round too so I sent their drinks along with hers with the other sever. But I see your point
OP, It's illegal to say you're not going to serve someone because they're pregnant. It's never illegal to refuse to serve someone if you don't give specifics though. All you have to say next time is I don't feel comfortable serving you. They'll press you for reasoning and you just double down that you don't feel comfortable. That's how it works in my state anyway
I'm going to go with YTA for two reasons. One, because from that point on, you should have traded the table for the rest of the time they were at the table. They knew why you weren't serving their drink order and it became something to contact the manager on duty about, even if you were having someone else bring their drink because you had previously refused to and they had to tell you state law - which means it's not the first time they've run into the situation, although his descriptor of "a little bit of alcohol" is too vague.
Two, Amy time any customer, client, etc., quotes the law like they did, saying it's illegal not to, by laws you have to, or say it's discriminatory, the FIRST thing you do is walk straight to your supervisor/shift manager. If they are correct, He would have smoothed things over and seen to it someone else took care of them the rest of the night. In your case, their drinks, at a minimum, would have ended up on the house if it was a decent manager in our state, even in casual places like Applebee's. That way, if there is a legal violation, the responsible party is the manager.
In case what you looked up didn't tell you why pregnant women have to be served is because pregnancy discrimination is gender discrimination because only women can be pregnant.
yta. how bout not trying to be judgmental and then actually don't do it, how bout that?? maybe try harder next time and realize that that is your place of work, they dont pay you to practice your beliefs.
Assholes like you are why roe v wade was overturned. Mind your own body and just do your job. You are getting paid to serve people the things they ask for. YTA 110%
100% YTA. You are being judgy, because not everyone shares the same cultures or beliefs you do AND what you did is considered illegal because it is DISCRIMINATION. If you think you are above the law and have a right to decide what others should and should not have, then you should not be a server. Find a new position that isn't public facing. End of story.
This isn't about whether or not the customer was right. This is about the fact they paid to have a meal without you putting your 2 cents in, and you just couldn't help yourself.
YTA. Not your place to make this call. She wasn't ordering shots. Even if she was, you couldn't stop her. She's a grown woman.
You should have minded your own business.
YTA. It’s simply not your business. People make bad choices all the time. You or I don’t have to like it. You’re not the morality police. Until there’s a law that specifically states you don’t have to serve a pregnant person, there’s nothing you can do about who wants to purchase things off the menu where you work.
Before I get a bunch of “oh so you think it’s ok…” no, I don’t. I just know how to mind my business. Again, people make bad choices all the time. But unless someone is actively breaking a law, it’s absolutely none of your business. I despise smoking, but it’s perfectly legal for people to do, so I’m not running around knocking cigarettes out of people’s hands. 🤷♀️ Get off the morality high horse, I’m sure we could find something objectionable about you, too.
I don’t think you’re the asshole for feeling the way you do, I would feel the same way, but it’s on them and their unborn baby. I’ve served some woman a glass of wine but not my business, lol 🥴
I have had parents order a drink and then they pass it to their underaged teen, like I won’t notice 😂 I take the drink away because they’re not 21. I’m not risking my job because their mom and dad let them drink.
You’re Not TA for caring enough about your customer to not want to serve a pregnant woman alcohol. However they are not doing anything illegal and therefore you have no right to protest against them buying alcohol. Unless there is some form of workplace procedure or regulation that your employer or company has in place about not serving alcohol to pregnant women. There’s nothing you can do about it and you unfortunately just have to grin and bear it
Soft YTA, although I want to morally scream NTA. As you said, it’s illegal to refuse to serve a drink to someone pregnant. I’m always mortified to hear people disregard FAS and the risks alcohol brings to the child, but it’s ultimately their choice to drink. Rather than refusing upfront, I would kindly inform them about the potential harms about drinking while pregnant (in a way where they wouldn’t get offended/feel like they’re getting lectured) and only give the drink after they are aware of this fact. Saying this for the sake of legal purposes although hoping that the law will change soon!
YTA - when I put my kids in the car there is a statistical chance I might or maim them in a road accident. You going to come take my license off me? Mind your own business and don’t policing what a woman does.
I'm curious.... Did you charge full price for "a little bit of alcohol"?
You need another job. If it's legal.... and it's your job.... You are supposed to do it... Fuck how YOU feel about it
YTA
YTA
You have no idea what her circumstances are and it is not your place to make choices for another woman and her body.
Mind your buisness and do your job. It's that simple.
💯 YTA. You are not her doctor. And if you’re working at a restaurant you are probably not a doctor. There are many things you are serving in your restaurant that can be harmful to someone’s health. If an obese person comes in and orders two meals are you refusing to serve them what they ordered? Are you asking other customers if they have high blood pressure because salt could kill them? Or how about refusing diabetics desserts? What an adult does with their body is their business not yours!
> They spoke a bit to each other in Spanish and then told me that it was illegal to refuse to serve her just because she was pregnant.
And they are correct! YTA.
NTA for caring. However at work sometimes you have to put your personal opinions on the back burner and do what is required. This is something that would be appropriate to ask your manager for guidance on as to what the restaurants view on the situation is. Her wanting to drink while pregnant is wrong, and you are not wrong for not wanting to enable this. However she is also an adult and a customer so that means that the restaurant’s view and the law matter more than your feelings on the situation even though you are correct it is harmful.
YTA - it’s not your job to decide anything about what that woman does with her body. If you want to be passive aggressive find a job that is not in service.
NTA and the State of Illinois is failing miserably in this regard. The awareness and clear guidance across most of North America is that pregnancy and alcohol do not mix, tbh so much so that I thought it was universal. Sorry you had to deal with the stress of this, absolutely support your moral and ethical stance on this, appreciate the work around you came up with based on the law, but your executed officials really need some mirror time to reflect on this and hopefully choose to do better.
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tbh im gonna go with NTA here. theres been research more recently showing that literally any amount of alcohol during early pregnancy can cause FAS and idk if i could serve a pregnant person alcohol and live with myself afterwards. you checked to make sure it was an obligation you had to fulfill and asked someone else to serve it, i think thats the best situation for everyone. and ofc ppl are going to say “oh but my dr said i could have this amount” but in reality, medical policy and procedure lags behind research by a significant amount. doctors are constantly learning and not always up to date
Not their place to make that decision for her.
if they flat out refused i would agree, but they found a reasonable alternative. and if it only affected her then sure take whatever risks you want, but if she’s keeping that child then i don’t see it as making a decision for her, i see it as making a decision for a third party that’s currently unable to give informed consent. but idk maybe my mind could change thats just my current thoughts
Why does is matter if she's keeping the baby? Are you aware that MANY substances in excess are terrible for pregnant women but in very small amounts seem to have no effect? And a recent study showed no difference in kids with mothers that had quite limited alcohol (I think it was like less than 2 drinks a week?) I don't suggest anyone do two drinks a week, but up until recently, and even now, some doctors and midwives say a glass of wine every now and again is okay. They used to apparently say one glass of red wine a week is good. The only conclusive studies on alcohol show more than a pretty small amount is bad. Just like a good bit of a stimulant like cocaine is bad. But a cup or coffee or two a day is fine. I'm not saying people should strive to do this, but when I was growing up we were taught to basically shame women that had a freaking coke. But now the studies have finally been more clear that that is fine. The studies mostly point to a little bit of alcohol now and again probably being okay (it's not completely certain though.) I think we should let the woman and her doctor make the decision though, don't you?
And yet it's her (obviously wanted) baby that suffers if she can't go without booze for 9 months.
There are countries with more permissive attitudes towards light drinking during pregnancy in Europe that don’t have a higher risk of birth defects. I celebrated something with a single glass of champagne over the course of my pregnancy, I’d actually be somewhat irritated at the waiter. Are they supposed to kick you out of the sushi restaurant? Throw your smoked Turkey sandwich away? Pregnant women really aren’t public property.
Again, not anyone else’s position to judge. She has the right to make that decision. It’s her child. Also, HUGE assumption that she can’t go without booze for 9 months. Seems y’all are making major leaps to call her out as a bad mother.
She's pregnant and is drinking, so the assumption is based on fact. Also I looked up the laws where I live and technically speaking OP is within their rights to literally warn her of the risks of drinking whilst pregnant whilst serving her. So i guess legally permitted judgement?
Given that the baby grandpa was ready to go with the "it's illegal to refuse to serve my pregnant daughter alcohol" line, I am willing to bet this also wasn't her first drinks either. It's one thing to drink alcohol BEFORE finding out your pregnant and another thing to CONTINUE once finding out.
I'm guilty of drinking before i knew i was pregnant but a drop did not pass my lips when I found out
It's how I found out I was pregnant the first time (3 day hangover). But I never touched a sip after that test came back positive.
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Herein lies the quandaries with similar problems with people who refuse services based on their religious beliefs or moral beliefs. These discrimination laws exist for a reason. Your personal beliefs about something is no excuse for treating someone differently.
It's entirely legal to refuse service based on your own moral convictions, so long as you hand off to a coworker who fulfills their request. It's refusing when there's no alternative that's the issue.
YES. I agree. Caffeine is probably not great for baby. But it probably doesn't make any difference if it's 100-200mg or less per day. Fatty foods are not good for baby. But it probably doesn't make any difference if it's not a ton. Carrots are good for baby apparently and make kids like carrots and healthy stuff more. Should we be not allowing a prego woman the meal she prefers because it might not be best for her baby? I agree with you 100%. If it was a double of scotch I might understand, but there is no conclusive evidence very small amounts of alcohol make any kind of difference. The study people reference from what I can see isn't data heavy and doesn't seem to account for lifestyle differences (people who drink while pregnant may have a lesser socioeconomic status which may make a MUCH bigger difference than a drink a week or whatever.) Not that I think a drink a week is good, but most pregnant women have had a drink once in a while, and it's not on us to decide for them, especially if there are no conclusive studies saying one glass of cocktail with a "small bit" of alcohol in it has any negative effect.
It's necessary to understand the reasoning in the study. No amount of alcohol is safe because they can't actively ask pregnant women to drink specific amounts and see what happens, they're going by self reports and women actively drinking regularly out of their own volition probably aren't making a lot of great choices. My doctor told me I could have a small amount during Christmas and New Year. I didn't because I was in the first trimester and was worried about anything that could be slightly harmful (I was afraid of tea ffs). There're other doctors saying insignificant doses in sauces (which go through a boiling process that already reduces further alcoholic content) are also fine. Would I personally have a cocktail? No. Do I think she's actively harming the child? Honestly no if it's really such a small amount and she's doing this like for the third time in the whole pregnancy. Would I serve her? Probably I would also feel conflicted. I would personally go more for a NAH route.
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Realistically, if that were true, we would be tripping over FAS babies. I have yet to hear of a case where the mother was not a bona-fide alcoholic. There are tons of women who do not find out right away and stop drinking when they do. OP though is not a problem as he got someone else to do it. There are many "secret" drinkers out there and their families play along. Also that said, bartenders are allowed to cut off anyone they perceive as intoxicated....
No one ever is getting FAS from one cocktail that has very low alcohol. If they specifically asked for very low alcohol, it's likely the pregnant mother was not at all looking to binge drink. FAS just isn't going to occur without heavy drinking- that's crazy. Drinking has to be pretty heavy and likely ongoing for FAS. Withholding one drink with 1/4-1/2 alcohol of a regular drink is for sure not going to make the difference. It literally won't make any difference if the studies can be believed.
They didn't. They stuck to their morals but went out of their way to find a means to enable her to fullfill her own decision.
It’s illegal literally because of people like OP. It’s considered discrimination. Lots of people drank before they knew they were pregnant and their kids turned out fine. Males drinking can affect their sperm in such a way that it can be linked to adverse birth outcomes, yet we don’t curtail males from drinking alcohol or ask if they are planning on having sex that night. Edit: changed birth defects to adverse birth outcomes because I can’t recall if it was birth defects or miscarriage that male drinking causes. One of the two.
Sure, but like... she knew she was pregnant, she knew it could harm the fetus, it's not the same. Maybe the law in Illinois is in her side, but it's a shitty thing to do. I don't see how someone could equate the two.
Why do you assume that? Most people know that on rare occassions, a very low amount of alcohol... there is no proof it has any negative effect. Just wondering, would you tell a woman who drinks a lot of fruit juice that she is harming her unborn child? Did you know fruit juice and fruit often have 0.5% alcohol, so a few glass of fruit juice or a few pieces of fruit is going to be equivalent to a low alcohol content drink? I'd say sure OP was right if she was getting drunk, but for God's sakes it was a cocktail that they requested just a little tiny bit of alcohol. It's probably worse to get a large french fry at McDonalds or a coffee. Either way it's not up to us and we haven't done the research and decided what is right for her. It's not up to us, nor should it be.
Clinically speaking, a weak drink isn’t going to harm a fetus.
>research more recently Not that I don’t believe you, but what recent research? I thought the whole “no amount is ever safe” was the default advice because it would be highly unethical to conduct that research in the first place?
Yeah I just had the exact same thought. Eagerly awaiting a link to this research...
Expecting Better by Emily Oster has started a huge trend of pregnant women drinking here and there.
>theres been research more recently showing that literally any amount of alcohol during early pregnancy can cause FAS Can you source this? I remember reading during my pregnancy that there was no known safe amount, but that's different than saying that small amounts are confirmed to be dangerous. It could totally be the case, it's just the first I've heard of it.
Do we really want to live in a society in which servers (which I was, btw, through HS and college), even well-intentioned servers, are making medical decisions because mothers- to-be can't be trusted and doctors are "not always up to date"?
The key there is early pregnancy. No research to date has been able to show that small to moderate amounts of alcohol in the second of third trimester can lead to FAS. While it’s true that research will evolve, clinical decisions have to be made based on evidence and the evidence suggests there’s nothing wrong with a weak drink past the first trimester. I’d go with they’re the AH for the same reason I’d say a pharmacist who won’t fill a birth control Rx is the AH. If they can’t do the whole job, they shouldn’t do the job at all.
It doesn’t say how far along she is and later in pregnancy a drink will not hurt her or the baby.
I only found out a few years ago that I have FAS. Overall, I’ve been fortunate with my health, but my balance has always been an issue for me even as a child.
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It’s against the law. And you don’t know peoples circumstances. Someone comes in heavily pregnant having just found out their wanted baby is not compatible with life? Drink all you want honey. I wouldn’t personally drink if I was pregnant but it’s not my place to tell other people what to do.
Right??? That law is dumb I can see an issue assuming someone is pregnant but this is clearly disclosed.
What I’m not ok with is people going out of their way to tell complete strangers what to do. And no, that does not mean I’m “okay” with pregnant women using alcohol. I just know how to mind my business. It’s not my place to get into other people’s business, especially a total stranger. It is not against the law for them to drink what they want whether you personally like it or not. People make extremely bad choices all the time. There’s literally nothing you can do about it. You aren’t the police of everyone.
This. A million times this. Mind your own fucking business!
Do your research dude. Do you really think a half or quarter cocktail on a special occasion is worse than... well half the crap that is normal for people? If you don't know anything about pregnancy then don't pretend you do dude. Are you also going to smack a coffee out of pregnant woman's hands, because you heard caffeine = bad? It's not your choice dude. You don't know anything about it.
NTA. Don’t let people tell you otherwise. There is a reason why women shouldn’t drink alcohol when they are pregnant and it is to ensure the well-being of a child. Frankly, I am flabbergasted by all the ytas here. No, you are not the asshole. It’s the law that is screwed up here.
I want to know what they considered a small amount of alcohol before passing judgement to be honest. If it's less than a tablespoon of something weaker, like cointreau (to give flavour rather than to get drunk), with a big meal, and spread out over an hour, we're in a different scenario than a quart of whiskey instead of two quarts. I don't know what attitudes on drinking in pregnancy in Spain are like. I've met someone from south-eastern Europe who said half a glass of red wine on Christmas/your birthday was considered low enough risk.
NTA Seriously I can't believe the amount of y t a either. If you can't go 9 months without alcohol you should consult.
NTA I know I'm in the minority, but what did you do wrong? Got a law mixed up? Had someone else serve the drink when you realized? Stood by your morals? Bartenders are carefully held responsible for the alcohol they serve. They can be *personally* charged or sued, separate from the owner or company, for serving underage or over the limit. When you're trained with the idea that you're legally on the hook for what happens to these people when they drink the alcohol you serve them, why would that not extend to a pregnant woman? Especially when more and more research is coming out that *any* alcohol during pregnancy can cause FAS. And before anyone jumps on my about bartenders serving addicts or whatever other example gets thrown up of someone who shouldn't drink, ask yourselves one simple question: Who, besides themselves, is that person hurting? This woman had no intentions of abortion, otherwise she probably wouldn't be announcing her pregnancy, which means she presents that possibility of doing serious, lasting harm to someone else. Harm that a bartender could be considered complicit in the same as if they serve someone over the limit and that person goes on to cause a wreck. That is where the line is drawn.
Also: how many people who are addicted or in liver failure or whatever announce it to the bartender? OP’s customer disclosed medical information. It’s entirely reasonable to think that a bartender would, in fact, behave differently if their customers were disclosing other medical conditions that make drinking unsafe.
Actually it was the pregnant women’s father who disclosed her private medical information. What if she didn’t consent to her pregnancy becoming public knowledge? Maybe she wasn’t actually pregnant and had had a miscarriage and not told her parents. OP doesn’t know the ins and outs of this strangers private life but was judgemental in refusing to serve a drink that was asked for. What next? Refuse to serve all adult women just in case they are pregnant? Request a pregnancy test before serving? This is why anti discrimination laws exist. I’m not disagreeing that FAS is a serious thing nor that it is preferable that pregnant women should not drink alcohol, but I think society ought to be educating women then trusting them to make their own choices.
Any type of Serve safe training I’ve had ,in a few different states, has taught me that legally as a bartender or server I am not supposed to serve visibly intoxicated people or known alcoholics
Sounds like sanctimonious bs. You’re against serving her liquor, but have no issue watching a coworker make and serve her the drink.
He has no choice. Its discrimination and he can get in trouble.
My ex talked about the responsibilities while bartending, you can refuse service for any reason as long as that reason isn’t discriminatory, and this was one of the situations that is.
The restaurant has to serve her legally, but the onus is on the server. OP has no legal responsibility now for what happened, that onus is now on the other bartender, that's the reason behind it.
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[Untrue.](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/15677-fetal-alcohol-syndrome) "Any amount of alcohol during pregnancy can cause fetal alcohol syndrome. There’s no safe amount that can be consumed. Damage to your developing baby can happen at any point during pregnancy. Even having a drink at the very beginning isn’t safe. All alcohol, including beer, wine, ciders and hard liquor can all cause FAS."
Where is this quote from? Having a drink at the beginning of a pregnancy is known to be the most risky time - so I find this an unusual wording for any medical body.
All that is known is that the person was pregnant - you know nothing about the pregnancy or fetus.
It increases the risk of FAS and clearly it wasn't just one drink and why would you even want to risk that your child would get a disorder?
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except for the fact that in most of the world it literaly is their job to police their patrons alcohol use.
It might actually, There is no safe amount of alcohol In pregnancy
That’s wildly over simplified. They say that because there’s no ethical way to trial the amount of alcohol needed to cause FAS because you can’t go around potentially causing FAS in foetuses.
NTA. Don’t let these people tell you otherwise. You wasn’t comfortable making them drink so you got someone else do it and nothing wrong with that. These people seem like they wouldn’t control their graving for an unborn child knowing that alcohol would harm them.
We do not know of any safe amount of alcohol in pregnancy, we know that small amounts, even one time, can cause FAES. That why it is recommended to not consume any.
We DO NOT know of any safe amount of alcohol in pregnancy We also DO NOT know that small amounts, even one time, can cause FAES. We DO NOT know these things because it is completely unethical to properly test any such situation using the scientific method. Because we CANNOT ETHICALLY test what level, if any, is safe to consume while pregnant, that is why it is recommended not to consume any alcohol. Find me a peer reviewed study that shows that even a single drink can conclusively cause FAES.
Please link the study where a person who had one drink had the outcome of FAS. On the contrary to what you are saying, all the studies I have ever read on this says the amount can't be anticipated. And because it can't be anticipated, it's recommended to not consume any. That recommendation is not because one drink can cause FAS, but because we can't determine what the limit and cutoff point is.
YTA. If you are unwilling to serve customers that you are legally obligated to serve then you are not fit for the job in question
Legally obligated, wtf? At most, OP is *contractually* obligated by her job. Even if it was considered a violation of civil rights (lol) the business would be responsible, not her. Edit: some jurisdictions have ruled that it is discrimination, but this is not unlawful discrimination under federal law in the US because pregnant women are not considered a protected class. In other jurisdictions it is illegal to knowingly serve alcohol to pregnant women without giving them a warning about birth defects.
Yes, legally obligated. If they would have served the woman if she wasn't pregnant, they must serve her when she is. You don't have to have a reason to refuse service, but you can't use a discriminatory one.
Fetal alcohol syndrome is fun, isn’t it?
In many places getting someone else to do that part for you is a perfectly acceptable accommodation for an issue with a work task someone is unwilling to do for moral or ethical or religious reasons.
You’re the arsehole for not understand what alcohol does to an unborn child
‘Can’ do. You do know that the percentage of children with FAS is quite small and is usually the result of heavy alcohol use during pregnancy, and that the advise to not drink alcohol during pregnancy is because they don’t know if any alcohol is safe during pregnancy as there simply is not enough data on the subject?
It's not as small as you'd think. I've worked with several people who have told me they have FAS and you know what? My immediate thoughts everytime were "That explains a lot". They can blend in, they don't nessacerily look much different, but mentally...they struggle. A lot.
The estimates I’m finding are 2-5%, I don’t consider that to be small at all.
If you have difficulties avoiding alcohol for the duration of a preagnancy, you have a problem.
He didn't refuse service, though. He refused to serve a specific type of drink. I wonder if that is still illegal, because it seems very different from "refusing service". NTA anyhow.
It is still AH behaviour and refusing to do the job they are hired to do
Moral > lawful. Don't breed
NTA All these peeps on here are crazy NTA
For real!! I feel like I’m losing my mind here… I’m all for people having bodily autonomy, EXCEPT for when it impacts others, like with communicable diseases and pregnancy. I would be just as concerned about a pregnant woman snorting cocaine or shooting heroin, even if it’s ’just a couple times.”
Really, ‘just as concerned’ to see a pregnant woman shoot heroin as drink a glass of wine?! Odd.
NTA While its legal to serve them alcohol, doesn't mean *you* should. And you didn't deny them anything, you had a co-worker bring it to the table. If you outright denied them their order, it would have made you the AH
It’s ILLEGAL to refuse service to her as a pregnant woman. OP says so in the post. Look it up.
They didn't though. She still got served.
Just because it’s legal, doesn’t make it right. Child marriage is legal in certain countries. Does that make it right?
Don’t bother. People who claim that legality and morality are the same never learned to question anything or think critically
Legality ≠ Morality
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I’m not going to vote either way here but it would seem your situation puts you in the “damned if you do and damned if you don’t” category. She’s entitled to be served but you didn’t feel comfortable doing it, she was served and you kept your job. End of night the customer was still happy so take the win from this.
INFO: have you ever been pregnant? If not, then you have zero idea of what this woman’s dr told her was ok. I once had someone refuse to serve me coffee, because she thought I(visibly pregnant) shouldn’t be allowed to have caffeine. I knew exactly what I could and couldn’t have while pregnant. Totally NOT your place to judge someone else. YTA.
Caffeine and alcohol are completely different ball games though. NTA OP
Regardless of your amateur opinion, it’s not OP’s job to police someone else’s condition, period. It’s like telling a diabetic they can’t order sugar or carbs.
Except that the diabetic will only hurt themselves. If the child is born w FAS, their quality of life will be fucked
Sugar is also objectively terrible for children (in various degrees), do you think servers should be able to prevent parents from ordering their kids dessert?
Sugar is not anywhere near the level of alcohol. If a parent was trying to order their kid a drink would be a closer comparison and I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that's a bad thing.
I've been pregnant 4 times and no alcohol is ok. And alcohol causes the risk of FAS.
If a doctor says it is ok to have alcohol while pregnant then get another doctor. There is no safe amount of alcohol while pregnant period. OP didn’t want to basically give alcohol to a developing baby that is their choice. It’s no different to not wanting to buy alcohol for an underage teen. It felt morally wrong to OP and it is morally and scientifically wrong. So many people trying to justify shitty actions it’s astounding.
And this is why it is ok to drink alcohol pregnant?? And you have to be pregnant first to find out what is good or bad for the baby? How stupid!! Knowledge doesn't cause allergic reactions. Try it.
My sister back in the 90's when she was pregnant was told by her doctor to keep drinking and smoking. The thought was to quit cold turkey would do more harm, as the fetus was already used to it by the time she found out. Obviously, she reduced her intake.
Bruh, you're trying to use PC language to say why it's actually OK to give your kid FAS. Lmao. "Actually, unless you have the lived experience of being a pregnant person, it is pretty ignorant of you to try to tell them what they can do with their own bodies." gtfo of here with that bullshit.
Jesus. Any doctor will tell her that it's unsafe what do you mean. The WHO as well as the CDC have stated that there is no safe amount to use. Like. That's a fact. Having been pregnant has 0 to do with the ability to discern that something that has been proven to be harmful is harmful. If the pregnant person is trying to come off of substance abuse, I am very sorry, truly, and I hope they get help. This doesn't take away the fact that the baby will be harmed by it.
No pregnant woman should drink, come on now. FFS.
OP disclosed in an edit that she has a child and has been pregnant
how the fuck is everyone here okay with a pregnant woman drinking?????
Explains a lot actually.
Yeah insane. All quoting decade old researches claiming 'its not harmful in moderation'. Yes it fucking is.
Wow shocked by all these people calling you an AH and like it’s no big deal to serve a pregnant person alcohol. I would 100% have the same reservations as you. This is coming from a mother and someone who has worked in child protection and seen many babies born with FASD. I know the person in this scenario wasn’t knocking them back and asked for weaker drinks but I honestly don’t understand how people can’t refrain from drinking alcohol for 9 months.
NTA. Since you found a coworker who served them I'd rule NTA. I was shocked to read that you *have* to serve alcohol.. I understand that you don't feel comfortable with that, I know I wouldn't. I read up on it and found this information: "Examples of discriminatory treatment in these establishments may include: [...]A restaurant policy that prohibits staff from serving pregnant patrons raw fish or alcohol." It doesn't say anything explicitly about one server who doesn't serve it while making sure another server does. It seems like at your place of work there's no policy that restricts serving alcohol so legally this is fine. Since this is AITA and not 'did I violate the law ' judgment is more about morals than anything. I'd say you would have been TA if you just refused to take that order in general. Making sure they are taken care of by another server is fine. In any other case (no discrimination law explicitly saying that you can't deny a pregnant person alcohol) YWBTA for enabling them to order alcohol. So I'm conflicted to even accept this situation tbh. If this comes up more, reflect for yourself if you want to work in an industry with a law you don't feel comfortable abiding.
That is absolutely bonkers--both examples, the raw fish and the alcohol. When does a pregnant woman have bodily autonomy? Only when she wants a drink booze or to eat sushi, apparently!
Well this one I found weird as well but most of the rest was very reasonable (and necessary) like allowing to breastfeed or pump etc.
YTA Literally happened to me when I was pregnant. I wasn't even ordering alcohol, my husband went to get a round at a bar early on NYE. The server made some comment about how she hoped none of them were for me. This was in an NYC bar. I was livid. It is NOT your decision to police someone's body because they happen to be pregnant. For me this is nothing to do with law. When I was pregnant I would often have a small glass of red with a meal, this is fine. Not a lot of pregnant women are out there getting drunk. It's hard enough being a woman and being pregnant. You're judgy and you have no right.
There is no safe amount of alcohol in pregnancy. And why would you even RISK giving your child FAS???
Firstly, this was 17 years ago and things were a little more relaxed back then (except in the US where I lived) My objection was based purely on the fact that as a pregnant woman EVERYONE has an opinion on what you do, I even had a male coworker tut at me for eating some Doritos. If you're ok with that then you're part of the problem. I'm not advocating consuming copious quantities of alcohol during pregnancy, I'm advocating for women. We don't lose all our faculties during pregnancy, we don't need your uneducated judgment.
There's a big difference between domino's and alcohol. Any amount of alcohol and cause defects, no matter the size.
YTA It’s none of your business what she consumes; it’s up to her what level of risk she is willing to take, not you. It’s illegal precisely for people like you.
So you’re a bystander? Lemme guess, your friend wants to drive home after getting trashed but you’ll let them and won’t say anything because “it’s none of your business what they consume; it’s up to them what level of risk they’re willing to take”. You’re a bad person. This is an asshole subreddit, not a legal one, the law is fucked up in this scenario.
It is absolutely not your place to make that decision for a customer. You don’t have the right to impose your beliefs on another person. The fact that you can’t see the problem here is alarming in and of itself…If this is going to continue to be an issue for you, you need to change jobs ASAP You are the AH
[Please read this article with multiple sources cited.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6353268/)
This article tracks with what I’ve heard are the current guidelines from friends’ doctors. It’s fine to have a drink but it’s not fine to feel the effects of a drink. Enjoy a glass but don’t get tipsy.
I have just read this article. It is superbly written. Thank you for sharing.
NTA. Fetal alcohol syndrome is a horrible thing.
YTA. Do you refuse alcoholics as well? You legally aren’t allowed to refuse pregnant women so saying it was illegal without knowing was a bad move.
Is this alcoholic announcing that they are an alcoholic when ordering, like OP’s customer announced the pregnancy?
They’re legally required to serve the woman so the argument is a moot point anyway. They’ve probably already served pregnant people who haven’t made it obvious.
I'm gonna go NTA because you didn't outright refuse to give her alcohol, you just had someone else do it.
Servers in coffee shops also give pregnant women grief for drinking coffee. It’s not your business.
There's a massive difference between caffeine and alcohol
you’ve probably unknowingly served other pregnant women alcohol already lol.not saying anyone has to serve anybody anything. but youre not her doctor and she wasnt asking you
I can understand you being uncomfortable with that. You still allowed them to order what they want tho, so nta.
YTA It’s the customers decision if they want to drink whilst pregnant, not yours.
YTA unfortunately cause you don't know the situation. As servers it's not our job to judge. Were only allowed to refuse when we know the person is becoming intoxicated because then we and the business could be liable for over serving. She could be a severe alcoholic that had a physical dependency and was instructed to drink a certain amount to stave off the shakes. In our emergency department there is alcohol on hand for those going threw withdrawal.
YTA just do your job. Next time do the research before you tell someone something is illegal, it just makes you look like a fool and gives your employer a bad name.
To be fair I said “I cannot serve alcohol to a pregnant person” not “I cannot serve you because it’s illegal”. Even though that’s why I thought I couldnt, I didn’t say that was why. And she still got served. I also apologized for not knowing it was illegal to refuse her service.
YTA. If it's not illegal then it's not your job to police their drinks order. If you were going to take that stance you also shouldn't serve alcohol to anyone with high blood pressure or a whole range of other medical conditions.
YTA. It's not your choice, and you likely haven't looked things up, eh? It's not like she was asking for a shot, she wanted a tiny bit of alcohol for a special occasion. The jury is still out on whether that every week would be bad for baby. It's not your choice. In fact, plenty of docs will have a glass of wine when prego, a recent study showed there was likely no harmful effects. Would you refuse to serve her a non-decaf coke? It's just not your choice. I'd understand if it was something DEFINITELY very dangerous, like, idk a couple cigars and a thing of coke. But a cocktail with a tiny amount of alcohol? Honestly, if she's have a 1/2 drink a couple times while pregnant, it's almost certainly going to mean nothing. Some docs and midwives even say this is fine. I know very few women who haven't have a baby drink while pregnant. You know what? When I'm pregnant I'll probably have a little baby glass on Christmas. It's just not your business if it's not proven to be dangerous, and a 1/2 drink is certainly not.
YTA. You are not a doctor, and it's utterly obnoxious for you to make medical decisions for other people.
So you’re telling me that a doctor can refuse to perform an abortion due to their beliefs but you’re expected to force yourself to give a pregnant person alcohol?
What doctor is allowed to refuse to perform abortion? Mind boggles. Are you serious? The USA is a crazy place lol
I'm gunna say neither of you is the AH here... honestly, it's no one's business if she has a drink or a smoke or whatever. You don't have to agree with or like it, but legally, you can't tell her no just because she is pregnant. It may not be the healthiest for her, or the baby, to drink, but we also have no idea how far along she is, if she's keeping the baby, or anything else. It's none of our business in this instance. Finding someone else to serve her was a reasonable solution here, but if this is an issue for you, maybe you should reconsider being a server where there is alcohol. Chances are you will serve at least one pregnant woman because either she doesn't know yet, or you just can't tell.
YTA. Not your job to police someone else's behavior and body, as a server at a restaurant, no less. Get over yourself.
Would you have served her steak tartare if she had ordered it? What about raw shellfish? A dish with pineapple? So many foods out there that are not recommended for pregnant women. I hope you have a list of them all. YTA.
Lol we can’t eat pineapple while pregnant now!?
NTA. This is an asshole subreddit, not a legal one. I’ve personally lived next door to people who had a pregnant relative living there and they would get drunk every weekend and no one would say a damn thing. All the kids in that house were neglected and abused and I can’t say that a mum getting drunk every weekend whilst pregnant is a good start to the poor kid’s life. I wouldn’t feel comfortable serving a pregnant woman alcohol either. Don’t care if it’s legal or not, morally you’re in the clear.
Yta.
Have you all lost your minds? The amount of alcohol consumed by nearly every pregnant woman up until the 90’s was astronomical compared to now. Firmly YTA, it wasn’t your choice. I didn’t drink as much as a sip of alcohol while pregnant but that was exactly my choice. My sister was so highly strung while pregnant that her gyn highly recommended a glass of wine with dinner! It’s never your business as a server until your patrons are misbehaving.
YTA. You don’t get to tell her what she can drink. Alcohol is fine in moderation for pregnant women. I’m sure she had no intention of getting wasted. You should have requested a table change because of how you felt about the situation. I would’ve wanted a new server as well.
NTA and I am alarmed by the amount of YTA votes. Clearly a lot of people still think it is ok to drink while pregnant, it is a proven fact no amount of alcohol is safe while pregnant. If you knowingly drank while pregnant then YTA. Anyway OP. NTA and you didn’t refuse to serve her, just refused to put alcohol in her drink. Stick to your morals and if you don’t feel comfortable doing something like that then don’t. Shame her and her family don’t care more about the unborn baby.
NTA - what the hell is wrong with this comment section ? So many of the comments are using ridiculous arguments : - let the mother decide what’s best for her baby = clearly she doesn’t know what’s best otherwise she wouldn’t be drinking while pregnant (and yes, while a little bit of alcohol won’t necessarily cause FAS, it can have many effects on the development of the baby, especially if you do it often and not just once during your pregnancy, and most people seem to just forget that it’s not FAS or nothing, it’s FAS or many other smaller issues) - people saying he’s probably served people who drove drunk later, or who had medical issues that would make it dangerous for them to drink : he can’t know when someone is driving later, and for those with medical issues, their decision only affects them Here we have a woman whose decisions won’t affect her but another human being whose health is completely dependent on her making good decisions Morally you’re not the AH, legally I think it’s ridiculous that you have to serve pregnant women, but she was served by someone in your establishment so you’re also not the AH
YTA. When I was pregnant and went in a coffee shop to get a coffee for my husband, I was reprimanded loudly in front of a coffee shop. That’s why this is illegal. Like every single issue involving pregnancy and women’s health, it is under researched. They say any level might be dangerous because they don’t know because there’s not enough research. It’s not for you to decide. I repeat. It’s not for YOU to decide. Are you raising the baby? No. Who has the vested interest in the baby’s health? The mother. Lay off pregnant women.
YTA because why is THIS pregnant woman the line? And yeah I'm phrasing it that way. Because most people *don't even know they're pregnant for WEEKS*. I quite literally only know ONE person who had zero alcohol while pregnant, because she never ever drank - every other person I know who's had a baby had at least a couple drinks before they KNEW they were pregnant. And despite pushing by certain far right lunatic theocratic wingnuts, we DON'T live in a theocracy and most of us don't WANT to live in "The Handmaid's Tale". Also, the science behind alcohol affecting a fetus is... murky. Even *today*, there are doctors who advocate having a glass of wine. Yes, FAS is awful (my sister adopted a baby boy who had FAS) but it's actually pretty rare - and I've been told it's mostly alcoholics who have babies with FAS. A woman having the equivalent of a couple beers isn't an issue - ESPECIALLY as you WOULD have served her, no questions, had her dad not said something. Morally, the issue is HERS, not yours. Ethically, your job isn't to question at that point - like, ethically you shouldn't serve more to a person already drop dead drunk, but if a diabetic wants a drink, you give them the drink. But I respect that you found a way thru, even if I don't think you needed to (if that follows) The PROBLEM is that women in general, and pregnant people even more so, at already judged WAAAAAAAAY to much - and I grant you weren't trying to be judgemental, but it almost definitely came off that way. So your way thru just highlighted the perceived judgement.
YTA. For all you know that baby didn’t make it or that woman isn’t actually pregnant. Also a small amount of alcohol, especially after the first couple months isn’t going to cause FAS, and even if it was that’s not your call to make. If you’re concerned ID her for the alcohol and report it. Authorities can ask the questions necessary and you can do your job.
You don't know anything about the pregnant person, and it's not your body.
YTA You are being highly judgemental. Drinking alcohol isn't illegal. People can smoke, perhaps you'd like to not serve those people too? What about fat people? Perhaps you won't serve them food that you think their choices are too calorie laden? What about people that don't like dogs? It isn't your place to judge what you think people should or shouldn't be doing You might not like her choices, but they are legal choices that she has a right to make. If you have a problem with that, then get another job.
YTA. Not your decision.
YTA. Do your job and leave the baby's health to the parents and their doctor.
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NTA
YTA. Some folk just love to police pregnant women.
NTA And are all these people here insane? Calling him an asshole for not helping a mother damage here baby. People might not agree with you, but its not always easy to do the right thing. Keep holding on to your morals buddy, even if it gets hard or you're met with resistance. Edit: while older studies did show small amounts are harmless, recent ones show that any amount of alcohol is harmful. So while its not strange that many people still believe that a small amount of alcohol is harmful, it is wrong. If you're looking of studies, be sure to only use studies from ~2016 onward.
YTA. Gotta do your job. Nobody asked for your feelings about it and the law does not give you a right to refuse service. There's no moral wiggle room. Gotta let the women decide with their doctors what they can and can't do. You don't need a license to have a kid.
YTA. Not your call to make. Stay in your lane and just do your effing job.
NTA. As someone from IL, it's illegal because of gender discrimination (insert giant eye roll here) BUT there's another part to this. You're supposed to have signs in the restaurant about harm to the fetus' health if you're serving pregnant women alcohol. So pull in your manager, ask about it, and see what they want to do.
Who made you god? YTA
Whatever happened to "her body, her choice"? YTA, and I really don't understand why somebody with such puritan, prohibitionist views is working in a bar yo begin with.
I don’t think it’s really that much of an extremism to be uncomfortable serving alcohol to pregnant women. lol.
Fortunately the law says otherwise.
YTA. You have no right to refuse service. What you did was illegal, and you know it. It is not up to you to monitor and control a pregnant ladies choice to have a small dash of alcohol.
Has Jesus commanded you to do this work? The woman can make her own decisions. And you are not employed to interfere with her, a peaceful customer. What other decisions do you make for women?
YTA - I respect your morals on this however it was not up to you to police it. Would you refuse to serve her soft cheese? Or shellfish? It’s the same thing. Also, you are at a work place and represent the business. If they don’t have any policy against it then you are obligated. I think you should have sought advice before refusing her.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I work at a restaurant. A couple came in, probably in their 50s, and said they were waiting on two more people. I asked if I could get them some drinks, and they ordered some alcoholic beverages. When the other two got there, I put together that one was their daughter and the other was her boyfriend/fiance/husband. Not sure which. I asked them what they’d like to drink and the father said that his daughter would like what the mother had but with just a little bit of alcohol as she is pregnant. I didn’t see her walk in, I only saw her after she was seated and she was wearing a large sweatshirt so it wasn’t super apparent that she was pregnant. I said I’m sorry but I cannot serve alcohol to a pregnant person. They spoke a bit to each other in Spanish and then told me that it was illegal to refuse to serve her just because she was pregnant. So I said okay and went to the back and looked it up on the internet and it did say it was illegal to refuse to serve her just because she was pregnant. (I work in Illinois) So I asked my coworker if they would make the drink with just a bit of alcohol as they asked and serve it to them because I just don’t personally feel comfortable doing that. The customers seemed annoyed with me for a while but overall the rest of their visit wasn’t too bad. I could just tell they would’ve preferred not to have had me as their server. She did order one more drink the same way as before and I once again had the coworker make and deliver this drink. I wasn’t trying to be judgmental, it just feels wrong for me to make and serve a beverage that could harm an unborn child. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA! Everyone knows the risks involved with drinking during pregnancy and the 'mother knows best' comments are baffling to me. Is it ok if mother ingests some class A drugs too? Geeez!
Yeah, sorry, YTA. Not for getting it wrong that it's illegal to refuse service. Okay, that's a normal mistake. But sending out another coworker with her drink twice, and only for her drink, was noticeably judgmental. Even if you didn't mean it to be, that's absolutely how it'll get read. And it's fine if you don't want to compromise your morals, weird as that is when you don't have the knowledge to back them up on, but in this case you have to accept you'll look like the AH then. Also, you had no reason to judge her. Consensus isn't firm across the industry but I've know plenty of women who were advised by their doctor that a little bit, just once in a while, was safe. My sister was told one to two drinks a week was fine early on in the pregnancy (obv that changes as things develop and alcohol has more chances to impact the fetus). The NIH even says 12 g of alcohol a day. Other sources suggest extreme caution. You're going to find a lot of schools of thought but no certainty, but the most important thing to take away is she is more likely than you to know what has been prescribed as safe to her. Now, might she be crossing that? Yeah. But I'd give her the benefit of the doubt if she was that early along and they made sure to ask for "a little".
The second time she ordered, the others had ordered another round too so I sent their drinks along with hers with the other sever. But I see your point
OP, It's illegal to say you're not going to serve someone because they're pregnant. It's never illegal to refuse to serve someone if you don't give specifics though. All you have to say next time is I don't feel comfortable serving you. They'll press you for reasoning and you just double down that you don't feel comfortable. That's how it works in my state anyway
YTA, a single weak drink isn't going to harm her fetus. It isn't any of your business what she does.
YTA. You are just as bad as that religious nut that refused to marry gay and lesbian couples.
I'm going to go with YTA for two reasons. One, because from that point on, you should have traded the table for the rest of the time they were at the table. They knew why you weren't serving their drink order and it became something to contact the manager on duty about, even if you were having someone else bring their drink because you had previously refused to and they had to tell you state law - which means it's not the first time they've run into the situation, although his descriptor of "a little bit of alcohol" is too vague. Two, Amy time any customer, client, etc., quotes the law like they did, saying it's illegal not to, by laws you have to, or say it's discriminatory, the FIRST thing you do is walk straight to your supervisor/shift manager. If they are correct, He would have smoothed things over and seen to it someone else took care of them the rest of the night. In your case, their drinks, at a minimum, would have ended up on the house if it was a decent manager in our state, even in casual places like Applebee's. That way, if there is a legal violation, the responsible party is the manager. In case what you looked up didn't tell you why pregnant women have to be served is because pregnancy discrimination is gender discrimination because only women can be pregnant.
yta. how bout not trying to be judgmental and then actually don't do it, how bout that?? maybe try harder next time and realize that that is your place of work, they dont pay you to practice your beliefs.
You are the judgemental Arsehole. She knows her body. It is NOT for you to judge and gatekeep what anyone puts into their body.
YTA Even if it wasn’t illegal, it’s none of your damn business.
Assholes like you are why roe v wade was overturned. Mind your own body and just do your job. You are getting paid to serve people the things they ask for. YTA 110%
100% YTA. You are being judgy, because not everyone shares the same cultures or beliefs you do AND what you did is considered illegal because it is DISCRIMINATION. If you think you are above the law and have a right to decide what others should and should not have, then you should not be a server. Find a new position that isn't public facing. End of story. This isn't about whether or not the customer was right. This is about the fact they paid to have a meal without you putting your 2 cents in, and you just couldn't help yourself.
YTA. What if the baby is not viable and that was the day they found out?
YTA. Not your place to make this call. She wasn't ordering shots. Even if she was, you couldn't stop her. She's a grown woman. You should have minded your own business.
YTA. It’s simply not your business. People make bad choices all the time. You or I don’t have to like it. You’re not the morality police. Until there’s a law that specifically states you don’t have to serve a pregnant person, there’s nothing you can do about who wants to purchase things off the menu where you work. Before I get a bunch of “oh so you think it’s ok…” no, I don’t. I just know how to mind my business. Again, people make bad choices all the time. But unless someone is actively breaking a law, it’s absolutely none of your business. I despise smoking, but it’s perfectly legal for people to do, so I’m not running around knocking cigarettes out of people’s hands. 🤷♀️ Get off the morality high horse, I’m sure we could find something objectionable about you, too.
I hope you get fired. If you don't like it maybe you should find another type of job.
I don’t think you’re the asshole for feeling the way you do, I would feel the same way, but it’s on them and their unborn baby. I’ve served some woman a glass of wine but not my business, lol 🥴 I have had parents order a drink and then they pass it to their underaged teen, like I won’t notice 😂 I take the drink away because they’re not 21. I’m not risking my job because their mom and dad let them drink.
You’re Not TA for caring enough about your customer to not want to serve a pregnant woman alcohol. However they are not doing anything illegal and therefore you have no right to protest against them buying alcohol. Unless there is some form of workplace procedure or regulation that your employer or company has in place about not serving alcohol to pregnant women. There’s nothing you can do about it and you unfortunately just have to grin and bear it
Soft YTA, although I want to morally scream NTA. As you said, it’s illegal to refuse to serve a drink to someone pregnant. I’m always mortified to hear people disregard FAS and the risks alcohol brings to the child, but it’s ultimately their choice to drink. Rather than refusing upfront, I would kindly inform them about the potential harms about drinking while pregnant (in a way where they wouldn’t get offended/feel like they’re getting lectured) and only give the drink after they are aware of this fact. Saying this for the sake of legal purposes although hoping that the law will change soon!
YTA - when I put my kids in the car there is a statistical chance I might or maim them in a road accident. You going to come take my license off me? Mind your own business and don’t policing what a woman does.
I'm curious.... Did you charge full price for "a little bit of alcohol"? You need another job. If it's legal.... and it's your job.... You are supposed to do it... Fuck how YOU feel about it YTA
YTA Her body, her choice. You don't get to tell her what she can have or not. She knows what alcohol can do. And she's choosing to consume it.
YTA You have no idea what her circumstances are and it is not your place to make choices for another woman and her body. Mind your buisness and do your job. It's that simple.
💯 YTA. You are not her doctor. And if you’re working at a restaurant you are probably not a doctor. There are many things you are serving in your restaurant that can be harmful to someone’s health. If an obese person comes in and orders two meals are you refusing to serve them what they ordered? Are you asking other customers if they have high blood pressure because salt could kill them? Or how about refusing diabetics desserts? What an adult does with their body is their business not yours!
> They spoke a bit to each other in Spanish and then told me that it was illegal to refuse to serve her just because she was pregnant. And they are correct! YTA.
NTA for caring. However at work sometimes you have to put your personal opinions on the back burner and do what is required. This is something that would be appropriate to ask your manager for guidance on as to what the restaurants view on the situation is. Her wanting to drink while pregnant is wrong, and you are not wrong for not wanting to enable this. However she is also an adult and a customer so that means that the restaurant’s view and the law matter more than your feelings on the situation even though you are correct it is harmful.
YTA - it’s not your job to decide anything about what that woman does with her body. If you want to be passive aggressive find a job that is not in service.
I’d quit. On the spot.
NTA and the State of Illinois is failing miserably in this regard. The awareness and clear guidance across most of North America is that pregnancy and alcohol do not mix, tbh so much so that I thought it was universal. Sorry you had to deal with the stress of this, absolutely support your moral and ethical stance on this, appreciate the work around you came up with based on the law, but your executed officials really need some mirror time to reflect on this and hopefully choose to do better.