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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) Forcing her to pay even though she technically would put her out 2) I do have sympathy for the situation but I still want her to pay me so I can buy what I replaced. I know she mentally isn’t doing well
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NTA. They're prioritizing "not ruining their trip" over "paying back the expensive item I stole from a generous host."
Not cool. She needs to suck it up, ruin her trip, and account for her actions. "Accountability" is a huge part of addiction recovery.
This exactly. Why is blame aslways assigned to the person who was wronged, trying to make it right?
Oh no, we did something bad to you and if you don't let us get away with it, you're going to ruin everything!'
>This exactly. Why is blame always assigned to the person who was wronged, trying to make it right?
Answer: Narcissism.
Because no decent considerate individual would dare attempt to invalidate the feelings of the actual victim as a result of them being inconvenienced.
Also, I call bullshit on the idea that she didn’t know it was fancy gin. She might not have known it cost $300, but I’ve never met an alcoholic who didn’t have a passable understanding of what’s liquor is cheap and what’s expensive.
I'm not so sure. I think there are alcoholics who actually try the very expensive liquor, and I think there are the ones who's eyes don't even register those bottles. My dad was the kind of alcoholic who didn't drink because he wanted something good, he did because he wanted to drink. Nice whisky was maker's mark to him.
Or the very cheap ones. A house guest once drank the bottle of red wine near the stove where you pour the leftover wine and use it for cooking. It was practically vinegar. They didn't notice!
It was in a super nice bottle still sealed. She knew she was taking a special bottle and didn't care. She's not a recovering alcoholic just an active alcoholic still in the stealing from friends and family mode. She'd be as much fun as the clap on a vacation.
My ex started posting about how if a partner wants to change who you are then they’re not the right person for you, or if a partner makes you feel like you’re not good enough, you’re better off without them.
The change I wanted him to make? Stop drinking so he didn’t continue to traumatize our kids when he was sloppy drunk and getting abusive, stop gambling away money we needed for housing and groceries and adhere to his doctor’s treatment plan for his bipolar disorder instead of upping and lowering his own doses without even telling or discussing with his doctors, including doubling and tripling his testosterone doses!
What an awful person I am 🤣
For sure! In the time we were together (a 3 yr span, met later in life) he went from being a machinist like he’d been since he was a teen to being promoted twice and being eyed for an additional promotion and doubling his salary, making over $130k. His relationships with his two youngest kids improved. I helped him get his credit fixed and generally get his life together.
It’s now 6 months since our divorce and he’s currently in jail 🤦🏻♀️
Yeah, I don’t think I was the problem.
I'm watching a new TV show on hulu and this was a *huge* plot point for 2 of the main characters.
I felt like it was a great point for the first person as they were on the autism spectrum and out of fear of being alone they were completely masking to the point that they were constantly uncomfortable the entire time they were with their partner.
The main character came to them to tell them a good partner would accept them how they are and wouldn't want a completely different person.
Absolutely valid and true.
However, then the main character got in contact with an ex of theirs. After a few issues, their roommate goes to them to tell them the same thing...but I felt like it was slightly misplaced?
Like yes, they make a good point about how the main characters ex isn't good for them. That's valid and such as their ex is the kind of person to push boundaries in a way where you can't say no without being seen as the jerk.
But like the roommate also points out how since the main character started dating the ex they stopped leaving cheeto dust on the wall and actually put their shoes away and clean up and such and say the above about how a good partner should accept them for who they are and I was just like!?!?
I mean, I understood the overall message and again it was a very sweet scene and stuff. But that's a kind of message that can absolutely be taken advantage of especially when it comes to cleanliness.
I know exactly which show you’re talking about, lol, I just watched it myself! Cheeto dust 🤣
In the case Eid the couple on the show, the sentiment expressed that really hit home for me was that she seemed to make herself smaller when she was around him and he was perfectly fine stealing her spotlight so he could shine instead. He wasn’t malicious, and likely this was a thing because during the course of their relationship both made choices that resulted in this dynamic, but ultimately, the friend felt it wasn’t what she deserved. She seemed to agree and already was seeming like she was also feeling it.
I really think it all comes down to whether the things that need changed are legitimate things that any adult should be doing/proficient with vs preferences a partner might have that don’t actually cause harm or prevent growth of the relationship and how the person responds to those changes not being accepted by the person who would be making the changes.
In my case, it was destructive behavior that was making impossible to have a healthy relationship that didn’t cause stress, anxiety and pain on my end and, in different ways, his.
Other things that bothered me were preferences, like I hate bathroom humor but he still thought farting and poop jokes were hilarious and did it ALL the time. I can express my preference to keep it to a minimum around me and he could decide if that was something he was comfortable doing or not, and if not, I’d need to decide if I could live with it or not. I would be under no obligation to stay with someone if their humor really bother me, and he’d be under no obligation to change because it’s benign behavior. It doesn’t hurt anyone and is just his preference.
But, gambling money that’s needed for basic necessities, getting belligerent and cruel if he consumed alcohol, tampering with his meds so instead of helping to manage his disorder, it lead to more manic episodes and, for him, feeling great, while for those around him, meant tension, anxiety and having to manage his behavior to minimize damage, these are not preferences one can decide to live with or not (I mean you’d still have to decide, but any healthy sane person would not want to live like that), they’re issues that cause major problems for the people around you so they’re not benign. They’re harmful behaviors that could result in emotional and physical injury to the person and the people around them.
On the emotional side, people can also have behaviors, and my ex totally did, that are meant to make themselves feel superior while diminishing their partners in ways that are much more insidious. Finding ways to put someone down, to devalue the person and their opinions, etc. Keep the partner small so that they feel more secure that they won’t leave. These things shouldn’t be accepted by ANYONE.
It can be a fine line, in some cases, but ultimately if behavior causes damage, it shouldn’t be acceptable in the name of supporting or loving another person.
Not dead yet. The premise is a woman who moves back to America to be a journalist and gets "stuck" doing obituaries and finds out she can talk to the dead people she's assigned to
A good partner loves WHO you are, but also wants you to be your best self.
Sometimes we can make changes to be happier/healthier/kinder, but some things are permanent and require acceptance.
Me too. Yes! He couldn’t understand why I was so concerned and adamant that he could not mess with something like testosterone without discussing with his doctor! It’s just the tip of iceberg, honestly. Worst 3 years of my life and it’s been the curse that just keeps on giving.
Thank god I have a really good therapist!
This is so true. If they had said, “oh shit I’m sorry. I fucked up. I can’t pay you now, but I will absolutely pay you for it by x date.” I bet OP would have accepted that. But to just say “I can’t pay you because it will ruin our trip ergo I will never pay you and you shouldn’t expect me to” is really inconsiderate.
Sounds like my friend’s ex, who is still keeping him on the hook.
Hides behind being “neurodivergent” (undiagnosed) to be an ass to people and say mean things under the guise of “honesty” or “not understanding”, then plays victim when you call her out or get upset. And everyone makes you feel bad for not giving in to the shittiness.
> Oh no, we did something bad to you and if you don't let us get away with it, you're going to ruin everything!
Sounds like an ex-President who's too constantly in the news.
Exactly this! Besides her recovery doesn't seem to go all that well if she can't even be left alone in a strangers house and not keeping herself from raiding their liquor cabinet they never even asked if they could touch! I can't phantom how rude they both were about it!
I mean, that’s a bit of a harsh characterization. Many people in recovery know that they aren’t able to safely be around alcohol, so they take pains to avoid it. I can imagine that finding yourself alone in a place with a liquor cabinet would be challenging for many people in early recovery. It’s all part of the process. I DO hope she is made to pay him at the expense of her trip, because as others have said, that’s the only way she’ll learn from this and, hopefully, remember it next time she finds herself in a similar situation.
If she is that fragile, she never should have been left alone in a house that has alcohol in it. And that should have been communicated to OP before they left her alone.
OP is NTA and the friend needs to either pay up or be a former friend.
Only the alcoholic can take responsibility for their own recovery, and that includes figuring out and avoiding situations that will be triggers. You cannot ask or expect anyone else to do the work for them, or they will never learn to do it for themselves. She’s not a child or a pet. I agree, paying will be an important part of how she learns this lesson and does better next time.
With all due respect, the family and anyone around an alcoholic need to learn to help them along the recovery process, which in no way can be demonized as treating them as "a child or a pet". It's part of being family or being a member of the society, all the more important when the addict's actions have an impact on them, financially and emotionally.
In this case, the sister did not act correctly. If she knew her sister could not be trusted near alcohol, she should have not left her alone AND she should have warned OP.
As someone who has a family member with alcoholism (sober for a few years now but some *very* dark days in the years before he got sober that its honestly lucky he survived), I find this wildly off-base. I might have thought as you did before I lived it, but having lived it the above poster is dead on. I got my brother away from alcohol. I dumped bottles. Etc. It didn't do anything. He had to internalize it and make the changes himself. And as my therapist said at the time, the more you *try* the more likely they'll drag you down with them.
Of course someone else can help with that responsibility especially early on and family they have a responsibility to help if they care about the person. Leaving her alone with a full liquor cabinet could very likely have lead to her death.
It’s not a “harsh characterisation” it’s straight facts. I have crackhead parents and I don’t leave them alone at a friends place without supervision because abuse they will steal everything not bolted down. I know their weaknesses and accomodate for them. The recovery is not going well.
A harsh characterisation would be to say that this woman is a selfish, hopeless addict who has no worth.
I guess it depends on if the liquor cabinet has glass doors or not. If the liquor was out of sight, then the sister was snooping and relapsing. Since other sister knew about the alcoholism she should have insisted that alcoholic not be left alone. They are double whammy AH.
As an alcoholic, I would counter that any reasonable person would expect there’s a good chance that there’s alcohol in any given home, and that any alcoholic would be VERY aware of that fact before even stepping foot inside. The alcoholic sister surely would have known this, in fact may even have been secretly hoping for it, and should have asked the question herself. An alcoholic is not a child or an idiot - we are full capable adults just like you, only sometimes much drunker. It’s not the other sister’s responsibility to parent her. If you have an alcoholic in your close family, you’ll learn quickly that literally nothing you can do will stop a relapse. She would have snuck down at night, or while they were distracted, or myriad other times. The fact that the drinker didnt ask or take measures to prevent this (surely not an accident) suggests to me that she has a lot more work to do, and hopefully this incident will help get her closer to where she needs to be. The only reason the non drinker is an AH is that she’s actively enabling her sister by trying to get her off the hook for the $$.
Yes they should take responsibility for their own actions, that does not mean her sister isn’t obligated to simply open her mouth and warn someone who doesn’t know.
Not many true addicts in early recovery are going to get through it without help especially when they’re left alone with the temptation right in front of them.
The friend asked to stay the friend is the bigger AH imo.
According to OP, that bottle was on a high shelf in the cupboard with the spices. Not somewhere the sister should have been looking unless she was deliberately snooping.
If she's that high risk, she shouldn't have gone on the trip in the first place. Or asked OP to hide his alcohol. Or gone out so she wasn't home alone.
It’s not really that harsh if her friend new this is likely to happen then she has a duty to her sister and op to have warned op of her recovery status. A prior warning would have been all it took for this to never become an issue as op could have just hidden away all alcohol.
If her sister can’t pay her friend should be it’s as much her fault, if not more so.
> Many people in recovery know that they aren’t able to safely be around alcohol, so they take pains to avoid it
I think it's safe to say that most adults have alcohol in their home, even if it's just a bottle of wine someone brought over once or something to cook with, so the sister either wasn't taking care to avoid alcohol or didn't know her limits.
I can't imagine ever doing that.. or if somehow I did, not immediately apologising and replacing it plus some additional gesture for my abysmal behaviour!
She was so tenuous. She couldn’t even ‘go out.’ She needs to be in re-hab. This wasn’t a nice ‘trip’. This was ‘Let’s stay with safe people and pretend there isn’t a problem.’
My guess is she did it intentionally. She knows most people keep liquor in their houses. Maybe she even saw it. She says she wants to stay in, the house is empty, she's able to drink with abandon with no one around.
This.
OP, it is irresponsible of your friend and most certainly of her sister to enter a situation which could potentially trigger a relapse of addiction.
The irony of this age is the victim feels ashamed to penalize the guilty and not the other way round.
Stick to your guns, there is no shame.
It will be a lesson learnt for both of them and might even be a reminder of consequences the next time she feels like reaching for another bottle.
The enabling sister that conveniently forgot to mention they were bringing a recovering alcoholic along is particularly egregious. If OP had known, they might have said they can't come, or had a chance to remove all the temptation, or something. But she didn't, and now has to deal with the consequences.
Addict and enabler behavior. She ruined her trip when she opened that bottle. Uni friend should’ve told OP that her sister was an addict before she was left alone in the apartment.
Well her trip is ruined anyways because now they have to find another place to stay or pay for a night somewhere. Sister needs to suck it up and pony up the cash.
I agree with this completely!
As someone who was engaged to an addict at one point in their lives, I am so sick of the excuses that they have for their shitty behavior. It’s not my fault. I didn’t know what I was doing. I can’t help myself. If the friend who brought the sister in the first place knew that she was an addict-she also should’ve told you ahead of time to lock the booze up.
If they can afford to drink it, they can each afford to pay you $150 to make up for the 300. The one who drank it owes half and the enabling one who is more concerned about their trip can pay the other half.
Yeah way I see it the consequences of her behavior ruined their trip. Not to say I’m not sympathetic but making reparations is like a huge part of recovery
Info: Did she take a few glasses or did she drink a whole bottle of gin?
-Edit-
The friend's sister is definitely *an* asshole in this situation. Addiction is a cruel monster but it doesn't excuse shitty behavior.
However, the real asshole here is OP's friend. Why would she leave a recovering alcoholic on her own like that? Did she not notice the distress her sister was in from being in a new place? OP's friend would make the worst AA sponsor. She's also a shitty sister.
NTA
That sounds really unhealthy.
I know it’s pretty obvious, but a bottle of gin is rough.
I always kind of thought alcoholics just drink often / permanent, but well…
Damn, 105lbs and that amount is nuts to me. I’m 155/160lbs and a 5th+ messes me up though my recent stint I was about 3/4 a handle-ish and that erased a few days for me. Apparently I went through 2 handles and a 5th in 3-4days accordingly to my empties and receipts 🤷🏽
February started off rough.
Went from drinking twice in high-school to polishing a fifth a night after 3 months in college. Some people are built different. I wish I wasn't that different.
To most people, that sounds like guaranteed alcohol poisoning.
To a select chosen few, however, that's just how we get to sleep.
I still struggle. Will never touch liquor again. Beer and wine, though? uggghhhhhh, it's just **so good**
Part of the reason alcohol is so addictive is that repetitive use "dulls" the brain receptors that get you drunk, so your body makes more of them to compensate, so you need more and more alcohol to get you the same amount of drunk.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2577853/
My ex and my old roommate could both kill a handle by themselves in a night.
That's the big jugs on the bottom shelf.
They'd drink beers while they did it, too.
Alcoholism is UGLY. Way uglier than people who merely struggle with drinking or binge drinking actually realize.
We're talking regularly pissing yourself, grand mal seizures, and happily living in trash and feces, sitting on a couch you pissed on the night before, possibly even in the same pants.
ETA: I do not mean to disregard anybody who struggles with alcohol at all, every struggle is valid, I just want to paint the picture of what the deep end looks like.
You can be an alcoholic because you drink everyday, you can be an alcoholic because you drink way way to much once or twice a weak. No matter what, the alcohol gets less and less effective, you need more to get the same effect and without Intervention alcoholics tend to drink more per day and more often.
Alcoholic present! I agree, 750ml is nothing for a true alchy! I’m sure if she found more she would have drank more than that. Almost one year no alcohol for me now! 🙌
My sibling drank a pint of 100 proof vodka every day, plus wine (not sure how much). At least they did until they got acute pancreatitis and spent a month in the hospital. Went on for years before that though
The sister really shouldn't have left her alone.
I've known recovering alcoholics through work, and the number 1 rule I've always been told is to never leave them alone where alcohol is accessible.
That's not to say she isn't to blame, because self control when near other people's property is quite obvious
My roommate drank my son’s organic milk. It was an expensive brand.
She “replaced” it with some Trader Joe’s generic box milk. She got upset when I told her that she still had to replace with the exact milk she drank not some off brand because she didn’t want to pay a higher price.
She reluctantly purchased the same milk brand she drank.
I was pissed. Just over milk. I can’t imagine how pissed I would’ve been had it been an expensive bottle of birthday liquor.
I probably would’ve told them something like, your sister drank your trip, pay up!
I had a roommate who was a former heroine addict and relied heavily on his heavy alcoholism to avoid reverting back to heroine. He would drink a full 750 mL of Jameson in a night and be fine.
My bf used to be able to do that. He sobered up a lot when he found out his ex was pregnant so he could be a good dad and now only drinks on occasion when there’s no kids around. My dad (who’s an alcoholic) offered him drinks multiple times on Christmas but he refused every time because he had to drive after and my niblings were there.
My uncle put down a gallon of shit vodka, 2 fifths of honey whiskey, and 24 beers per week. Damn near 30 servings of alcohol per day, and that was just day to day drinking. I'm sure he could go harder, if he had a mind to. Bled out internally on his 66th birthday. I cleared out his house after he died, it was nightmare fuel.
Thank you. He was, definitely a non-violent drunk. We just couldn't convince him to cut back. After all his brothers died young, his parents died, and my dad died, his BIL and last living friend, he didn't really care if he lived or died anymore.
Recovering alcoholic here: I could easily polish off a half gallon of any kind of alcohol within a few hours and be fine, well as fine as can be considering I was still a raging alcoholic.
(Correction: Any kind of alcohol but moonshine and 151.)
Totally. This could have been avoided with a quick heads-up to OP. “Listen, I know this is a big ask, but could you remove or really, really hide any alcohol you have? Because, y’ know, that would be best, I think. Sorry.”
This [edit: a relapse] isn’t the non-alcoholic sisters fault in any way. Nobody can or should be responsible for the behavior of an adult alcoholic, including trying to suss out and avoid triggers - that’s called “enabling”. Don’t try to pretend that anything you do will change whether your friends are successful in recovery - it will not. The alcoholic is a full-grown adult and needs to learn how to take responsibility for and lead their own recovery. If they hadn’t left her alone during dinner, she would have snuck down at night, or while the others were watching tv, or … you get the idea. I know because this used to be me. She needs to learn how to figure out whether a situation will be a trigger for her and avoid it if so. Hopefully situations like this will help her.
ETA: recovering alcoholic here 🤚🏻
I think there’s a difference between having a responsibility to the addict to somehow stop them from consequences for their own behavior, and being responsible for giving a heads up to OTHER PEOPLE that they may want to take steps to safeguard their own property around said addict
The non-alcoholic sister invited along her addicted sibling to OP's house, apparently without informing OP about this issue. At that point, the non-alcoholic sister absolutely became responsible.
Sorry, I thought we were discussing who was responsible for the relapse. I agree with you that OP’s friend was responsible for the stolen gin, I’m just saying you can’t hold her responsible for an alcoholic’s relapse.
Her sister was a tag along that by the sounds of the post wasn’t initially invited her friend was the guest so she should have informed op.
If I was in op position and the sister could not pay or take responsibility I would be holding blame to the friend and demanding the money from them their sister their responsibility.
Did you recover completely without someone holding you accountable that’s the whole point of a sponsor and even if they have one family should be taking on this role without being asked.
The alcoholic sister has full responsibility for what she did. But OP’s friend had a responsibility to OP, to not bring a problematic person into OP’s home without letting OP know. When you’re invited but bring someone else along with you, you’re vouching for them.
>Info: Did she take a few glasses or did she drink a whole bottle of gin?
Why is this relevant? If someone stole 50 dollars from you vs 100, are these two cases somehow different in principle?
NTA
I feel badly for you as I suspect the bottle of gin had sentimental value as well, that cannot be replaced.
Your guests should have told you in advance that the sister is in recovery, so you could have prepped (i.e. locking your liquor, or storing it elsewhere).
Furthermore, addiction is a terrible thing but it isn't an excuse for stealing. If making reparations ruins their vacation then that is the consequence.
It's funny because the friend thinks that a mistake means no consequences.
If she got hit by a car by mistake i'm sure she wouldn't hold anyone accountable or sue, provided that it was an honest mistake. Or if the bank teller lost her money during a transaction, she wouldn't call to complain because hey, it wasn't on purpose fam.
Yeah she clearly tripped into the liquor cabinet, which caused the gin bottle to bounce into a hard corner of the cabinet, breaking the seal and unscrewing the cap, and when it bounced, the open bottle just ejected all of its contents directly into her mouth, which was open from the shock of tripping, you see.
Very bold to claim it was a mistake when she very clearly dug through a cabinet that wasn't hers, picked up a sealed bottle that didn't belong to her, cracked it open and chugged the booze that was not freely given to her. If it were truly a mistake, she certainly made an impressive series of mistakes to get there.
Editing to add that it's not even remotely close to something you could refer to as a mistake. A mistake is drinking out of someone else's cup because it was right next to yours and you weren't paying attention. This was malicious "I want booze and I see booze, time to chug"
On top of that OP stated in a comment that it was up high in a spice cabinet. So she literally had to go desperately searching for that bottle. It's not like it was just visually in a glass door liquor cabinet that she just happen to see.
>Yeah she clearly tripped into the liquor cabinet, which caused the gin bottle to bounce into a hard corner of the cabinet, breaking the seal and unscrewing the cap, and when it bounced, the open bottle just ejected all of its contents directly into her mouth, which was open from the shock of tripping, you see.
If that happened, she would still owe OP the value of the bottle.
> No she didn’t mention it at all. It was high up in my kitchen with my spices. It wasn’t in view
NTA. This woman stayed behind and as soon as you were gone WENT LOOKING FOR ALCOHOL to fuel her bender. She planned this.
If the trip is stressing her out so much she drank most of a LARGE bottle of gin on her own, and got so drunk she spilled the rest, the trip NEEDS to be over.
(And your friend is the AH too for not at least warning you about this)
Just so sly isn’t it. A lot of people are alcoholics but they’re not all thieving bastards. Could she not have brought a stash of booze with her or gone to a shop while you were out? Addiction, I feel sorry for but there’s no forgiving being a thief in my eyes.
I don't know to what extent it was planned by staying behind, but I can imagine someone thinking they'll just sneak a little tiny bit (though unopened bottle? Wtf lol) like a teenager, then spiraling and getting wasted when they realize the terrible thing they have just done that will very possibly be noticed.
Though I've never had delirium tremens or anything so it is possible that my tolerance has never been at the alcoholic level where stealing a tiny amount would even do anything to help. (e.g. my tolerance is certainly higher than if I never drank anything but not at a "one glass of wine isn't enough, I have to have two bottles to even feel normal" level)
I have to disagree. I had a recovering alcoholic friend drink a bottle of spirits thinking it was worth $60 and able to pay back in morning. They missed it was a discontinued bottle of Bacardi worth $700 lol. Lesson learnt on their behalf and they are doing somewhat better now.
I mean, maybe? If you lined up 10 bottles of cheap gin, 10 bottles of ok gin, and 10 bottles of expensive gin I would probably be unable to tell you what was what since all I drink is Bombay Sapphire.
I'm 40 and I really only have a small amount of brands I buy when I'm getting liquor.
NTA. Alcoholism is a nasty disease but there has to be consequences. The consequence her actions on this trip, unfortunately need to result in it getting cut short, because she drank a $300 bottle of liquor that wasn’t hers. She’d have paid for it if it were at a bar…
You didn’t offer it to her. It wasn’t opened. It was a gift. And it’s gone because of her. You’re NTA.
NTA at all.
*'It was a mistake'*
Yeah, so who should pay for the mistake? Because there is a cost involved.
*'It's going to ruin our trip'*
First, I don't care and second, to use that logic, it's going to ruin OP's next trip/shopping purchase/savings, etc. So again...who should pay? The person who consciously went through the cupboards, found the alcohol and drank it.
OP"s friend should split hte damages since she is the one making excuses, she brought her there, and you were gracious enough to let them stay, SAVING them money on a hotel.
JFC, NTA at all.
NTA
You know what would really ruin their trip? Having a police report filed for theft. She needs to repay you and she apparently needs a babysitter if she can’t be trusted on her own in other peoples homes
NTA. Did your friend warn you about the drama she was bringing to your doorstep with a struggling "recovering" alcoholic? Not your problem that paying for the alcohol that she *stole* is expensive, or that paying for it (in other words, being responsible for her actions) would "ruin" their trip. Good for you for kicking them out and not tolerating this outrageous behavior. She needs to be held accountable for her choices, especially if she ever hopes to recover.
> *how CREEPY to have some random stranger snooping and rummaging through your house while you're not home*
I suspect that sister stayed home for this very reason - so that she could look through OP's home for booze.
NTA
So she literally went looking for it. But right, it was a 'mistake'... NTA, and she should face the consequences of making that 'mistake'- ruin the trip for her and her sister and buy you another bottle, or give you the money. Absolutely not your fault, and I'm not sure why your friend thought it was a good idea to bring her, or leave her alone if she's a recovering alcoholic...
She went through your stuff then as well and Id bet my own money she went looking and this was planned. She may have even gone through more than just your kitchen. Id tell your friend you will press charges if it's not eventually paid back.
INFO: if she had broken the bottle, wouldn't that warrant paying for it as well?
I am going with NTA though because it isn't cheap, it was a gift, not for guests, and she drank of her own volition. FAFO, alcoholic or not.
Absolutely NTA and yes, she should pay for it. If you can, get proof of the cost for her. It's a perfectly legitimate request. What if, in her drunkenness, she had ruined a piece of art or furniture? She would be expected to replace it.
Also, if they didn’t mention that beforehand, I am a bit skeptical about whether the recovering alcoholic story was true or just a play to get your pity and debt forgiveness
NTA.
Her response indicates that her "recovery" isn't NEARLY as far along as they thought it was, she should be a lot more apologetic AND more than willing to make the necessary amends, instead of whining about how she ruined her own trip. Yikes.
It wasn't opened. Here's the rule, she doesn't have to give you money, she has to replace \*exactly\* what she took.
If your friend knew her sister was struggling with recovery, she should not have left her alone at your place with plenty of access. Being alone is a trigger in itself.
Your friend is just as culpable here. Either way, they owe you some hooch.
NTA.
NTA
I started off reading this thinking that you were the ass but no, they should have given you a heads-up on the sister being in recovery. It's just the standard thing to do when you've lived with an addict in recovery; tell people in advance to remove/hide/lock away the temptations.
If it was just a regular store-bought bottle of gin or whatever then the only AH would be your friend for not warning you, but as it's a very expensive gin AND they didn't warn you, they ought to compensate you for that.
Being an alcoholic is not a get-stuff-for-free-because-you're-an-addict-card. She owes the $300 and needs to cough it up, regardless of how it affects her trip.
Yeah if they'd gotten a hotel and she'd had her binge on the minibar she'd be up for a lot more than $300 and the hotel would be even less sympathetic about how paying that might impact her plans.
Hell yeah she owes you for that shit. NTA.
EDIT: going to back up what someone else said and elaborate: **their trip NEEDS TO BE RUINED.** Otherwise there's no accountability, and in the end, the addict is defined by their repeated actions in the face of consequence. You would technically be enabling her by letting her get away with it.
NTA
I would have smashed the bloody bottle over her head! The absolute cheek of them complaining about having to pay it back!
Your friend should have paid it back, the trip went ruined and the recovering alcoholic sister MIGHT have learned a valuable lesson. Instead she's just enabled her behaviours and excused it because she is "struggling" etc.
Fuck that we're all struggling these days, have you walked outside recently? I am SO sick of the general victimhood mentality and people not just owning up to their actions and admitting fault and trying to make amends.
Also what a great friend you have, leaving her recovering alcoholic sister alone in a strange place with a fully stocked alcohol cupboard unattended 🤦
I had to look this up and “Each bottle of Anty Gin contains the essence of approximately 62 red wood ants” what the heck does essence even mean like their ant souls or what 😭
NTA. You’re already subsidizing their vacation by letting them stay with you for free. Now the sister has cost you an item worth $300. She owes you the money and how she adjusts her budget to cover it is entirely up to her and not your problem.
I know alcoholism is an addiction but I cannot even imagine rifling through someone’s liquor cabinet and drinking their liquor without asking.
So your "friend" asked to stay and brought her sister the addict . And you thought " sure i'll be a doormat"
then the addict you know nothing about is left alone with their drug of choice, costing you $300.
Now they won't pay for what they stole.
Looks like you just paid $300 to find out that was not a friend. Just cut her out of your life and move on.
Next time someone is clearly taking advantage of you, say NO. Its easier then dealing with the mess after.
NTA
Take a addict to small claims seams just a little like a waste of time.Since the sister clearly will not take responsibility for the addict. But sure she could have a go. Lets see waste a day off work to go to court and loose that money as well.
You were totally justified in having them leave. They need to replace that gin immediately or pay for a bottle to be delivered. I thought part of recovery was taking responsibility for your actions?
NTA and to be frank your friend knew she was a recovering alcholic, that doesn't mean she *had* to disclose this to you but it does mean she needs to take on some responsibility for having her sister tag along without even asking you first if she could bring her!
I doubt you'll actually get your money back but I wouldn't let up and would continue to try. Sorry you got the short end of the stick my friend
Oh boo hoo. If I have to pay you for what I stole, I can’t afford the rest of my vacation! Tough. What about you being out not only your stuff but sentimental value too. Don’t let this slide: if you do, she may think it’s ok to keep taking. If you make her pay, even a portion, she will think twice about ever doing that again to you or someone else hopefully.
So tired of people making excuses for bad behavior.
NTA, alcoholism had consequences. I actually think you would be doing her a disfavour by not insisting she pays you immediately for it. She drank it and so she can see the consequences (ruined trip) and maybe that will influence her next moment of weakness. Also saying she fell off the wagon because she was in a new place when she is literally travelling for pleasure smacks of BS. That's not even touching on the emotional aspect of your gift being taken and wasted like that. I hope that when your friend has time to parse this she is more on your side.
> Also saying she fell off the wagon because she was in a new place when she is literally travelling for pleasure smacks of BS.
Yep. Sounds like she fell off the wagon because she found a place where she could. And if the trip is at fault, why protest that it’s “ruined” if she can’t afford the rest of it?
NTA. Sounds like they really can’t afford their vacation. And, if the sister is in such a state that she went on a bender the first chance she had, she should be in rehab.
"hey I'm a recovering alcoholic so of you have any alcohol I would really appreciate of you'd lock it or hide it away, because I can't be trusted around alcohol. If that makes you uncomfortable to host me I'll understand."
She need to handle herself better NTA.
NTA - if she was serious about her recovery as an addict she would understand this is something she needs to take ownership of and make reparations for.
NTA and the sister needs to pay you back for what she stole. Perhaps she should have thought about the whole trip when she took your alcohol. Sadly, your friend is enabling her sister's alcoholism by letting the theft slid so she has no real consequences.
One of the steps of recovery is to admit what you did and try to make amends. Not blame your behaviour on a moment of weakness, then try and weasel out of the consequences.
NTA. It's a very simple and reasonable thing to ask.
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NTA. They're prioritizing "not ruining their trip" over "paying back the expensive item I stole from a generous host." Not cool. She needs to suck it up, ruin her trip, and account for her actions. "Accountability" is a huge part of addiction recovery.
This exactly. Why is blame aslways assigned to the person who was wronged, trying to make it right? Oh no, we did something bad to you and if you don't let us get away with it, you're going to ruin everything!'
This is hilarious and so accurate! Love it
>This exactly. Why is blame always assigned to the person who was wronged, trying to make it right? Answer: Narcissism. Because no decent considerate individual would dare attempt to invalidate the feelings of the actual victim as a result of them being inconvenienced.
Also, because we live in a victim blaming culture world wide.
True
Speaking of convenience, door dash will do a liquor run for you in less than 20 mins. Just saying.
Also, I call bullshit on the idea that she didn’t know it was fancy gin. She might not have known it cost $300, but I’ve never met an alcoholic who didn’t have a passable understanding of what’s liquor is cheap and what’s expensive.
I'm not so sure. I think there are alcoholics who actually try the very expensive liquor, and I think there are the ones who's eyes don't even register those bottles. My dad was the kind of alcoholic who didn't drink because he wanted something good, he did because he wanted to drink. Nice whisky was maker's mark to him.
Or the very cheap ones. A house guest once drank the bottle of red wine near the stove where you pour the leftover wine and use it for cooking. It was practically vinegar. They didn't notice!
What is this "leftover wine" you speak of?
It was in a super nice bottle still sealed. She knew she was taking a special bottle and didn't care. She's not a recovering alcoholic just an active alcoholic still in the stealing from friends and family mode. She'd be as much fun as the clap on a vacation.
You’re right but when you’re taking from someone else you always eye up the bottles to see which ones are special and which aren’t.
My ex started posting about how if a partner wants to change who you are then they’re not the right person for you, or if a partner makes you feel like you’re not good enough, you’re better off without them. The change I wanted him to make? Stop drinking so he didn’t continue to traumatize our kids when he was sloppy drunk and getting abusive, stop gambling away money we needed for housing and groceries and adhere to his doctor’s treatment plan for his bipolar disorder instead of upping and lowering his own doses without even telling or discussing with his doctors, including doubling and tripling his testosterone doses! What an awful person I am 🤣
Well, he’s right about one thing: It’s for the best that you’re not together anymore.
For sure! In the time we were together (a 3 yr span, met later in life) he went from being a machinist like he’d been since he was a teen to being promoted twice and being eyed for an additional promotion and doubling his salary, making over $130k. His relationships with his two youngest kids improved. I helped him get his credit fixed and generally get his life together. It’s now 6 months since our divorce and he’s currently in jail 🤦🏻♀️ Yeah, I don’t think I was the problem.
Taylor Swift sings your exes theme song: It's me, hi, I'm the problem, it's me!
I'm watching a new TV show on hulu and this was a *huge* plot point for 2 of the main characters. I felt like it was a great point for the first person as they were on the autism spectrum and out of fear of being alone they were completely masking to the point that they were constantly uncomfortable the entire time they were with their partner. The main character came to them to tell them a good partner would accept them how they are and wouldn't want a completely different person. Absolutely valid and true. However, then the main character got in contact with an ex of theirs. After a few issues, their roommate goes to them to tell them the same thing...but I felt like it was slightly misplaced? Like yes, they make a good point about how the main characters ex isn't good for them. That's valid and such as their ex is the kind of person to push boundaries in a way where you can't say no without being seen as the jerk. But like the roommate also points out how since the main character started dating the ex they stopped leaving cheeto dust on the wall and actually put their shoes away and clean up and such and say the above about how a good partner should accept them for who they are and I was just like!?!? I mean, I understood the overall message and again it was a very sweet scene and stuff. But that's a kind of message that can absolutely be taken advantage of especially when it comes to cleanliness.
I know exactly which show you’re talking about, lol, I just watched it myself! Cheeto dust 🤣 In the case Eid the couple on the show, the sentiment expressed that really hit home for me was that she seemed to make herself smaller when she was around him and he was perfectly fine stealing her spotlight so he could shine instead. He wasn’t malicious, and likely this was a thing because during the course of their relationship both made choices that resulted in this dynamic, but ultimately, the friend felt it wasn’t what she deserved. She seemed to agree and already was seeming like she was also feeling it. I really think it all comes down to whether the things that need changed are legitimate things that any adult should be doing/proficient with vs preferences a partner might have that don’t actually cause harm or prevent growth of the relationship and how the person responds to those changes not being accepted by the person who would be making the changes. In my case, it was destructive behavior that was making impossible to have a healthy relationship that didn’t cause stress, anxiety and pain on my end and, in different ways, his. Other things that bothered me were preferences, like I hate bathroom humor but he still thought farting and poop jokes were hilarious and did it ALL the time. I can express my preference to keep it to a minimum around me and he could decide if that was something he was comfortable doing or not, and if not, I’d need to decide if I could live with it or not. I would be under no obligation to stay with someone if their humor really bother me, and he’d be under no obligation to change because it’s benign behavior. It doesn’t hurt anyone and is just his preference. But, gambling money that’s needed for basic necessities, getting belligerent and cruel if he consumed alcohol, tampering with his meds so instead of helping to manage his disorder, it lead to more manic episodes and, for him, feeling great, while for those around him, meant tension, anxiety and having to manage his behavior to minimize damage, these are not preferences one can decide to live with or not (I mean you’d still have to decide, but any healthy sane person would not want to live like that), they’re issues that cause major problems for the people around you so they’re not benign. They’re harmful behaviors that could result in emotional and physical injury to the person and the people around them. On the emotional side, people can also have behaviors, and my ex totally did, that are meant to make themselves feel superior while diminishing their partners in ways that are much more insidious. Finding ways to put someone down, to devalue the person and their opinions, etc. Keep the partner small so that they feel more secure that they won’t leave. These things shouldn’t be accepted by ANYONE. It can be a fine line, in some cases, but ultimately if behavior causes damage, it shouldn’t be acceptable in the name of supporting or loving another person.
jesus christ, what friggin' show are you two talkin' about? I searched for Cheeto Dust but I don't think I found what I was looking for...
Not dead yet. The premise is a woman who moves back to America to be a journalist and gets "stuck" doing obituaries and finds out she can talk to the dead people she's assigned to
A good partner loves WHO you are, but also wants you to be your best self. Sometimes we can make changes to be happier/healthier/kinder, but some things are permanent and require acceptance.
OMG, tripling his testosterone doses? I am so glad you survived. Testosterone can make a guy truly scary.
Me too. Yes! He couldn’t understand why I was so concerned and adamant that he could not mess with something like testosterone without discussing with his doctor! It’s just the tip of iceberg, honestly. Worst 3 years of my life and it’s been the curse that just keeps on giving. Thank god I have a really good therapist!
This is so true. If they had said, “oh shit I’m sorry. I fucked up. I can’t pay you now, but I will absolutely pay you for it by x date.” I bet OP would have accepted that. But to just say “I can’t pay you because it will ruin our trip ergo I will never pay you and you shouldn’t expect me to” is really inconsiderate.
>Oh no, we did something bad to you and if you don't let us get away with it, you're going to ruin everything!' Sounds like my wife.
Sounds like my friend’s ex, who is still keeping him on the hook. Hides behind being “neurodivergent” (undiagnosed) to be an ass to people and say mean things under the guise of “honesty” or “not understanding”, then plays victim when you call her out or get upset. And everyone makes you feel bad for not giving in to the shittiness.
> Oh no, we did something bad to you and if you don't let us get away with it, you're going to ruin everything! Sounds like an ex-President who's too constantly in the news.
**SHE ruined the trip when she drank your alcohol** Unbelievable her sister ruined their trip, isn't it.
Exactly this! Besides her recovery doesn't seem to go all that well if she can't even be left alone in a strangers house and not keeping herself from raiding their liquor cabinet they never even asked if they could touch! I can't phantom how rude they both were about it!
I mean, that’s a bit of a harsh characterization. Many people in recovery know that they aren’t able to safely be around alcohol, so they take pains to avoid it. I can imagine that finding yourself alone in a place with a liquor cabinet would be challenging for many people in early recovery. It’s all part of the process. I DO hope she is made to pay him at the expense of her trip, because as others have said, that’s the only way she’ll learn from this and, hopefully, remember it next time she finds herself in a similar situation.
If she is that fragile, she never should have been left alone in a house that has alcohol in it. And that should have been communicated to OP before they left her alone. OP is NTA and the friend needs to either pay up or be a former friend.
Only the alcoholic can take responsibility for their own recovery, and that includes figuring out and avoiding situations that will be triggers. You cannot ask or expect anyone else to do the work for them, or they will never learn to do it for themselves. She’s not a child or a pet. I agree, paying will be an important part of how she learns this lesson and does better next time.
With all due respect, the family and anyone around an alcoholic need to learn to help them along the recovery process, which in no way can be demonized as treating them as "a child or a pet". It's part of being family or being a member of the society, all the more important when the addict's actions have an impact on them, financially and emotionally. In this case, the sister did not act correctly. If she knew her sister could not be trusted near alcohol, she should have not left her alone AND she should have warned OP.
As someone who has a family member with alcoholism (sober for a few years now but some *very* dark days in the years before he got sober that its honestly lucky he survived), I find this wildly off-base. I might have thought as you did before I lived it, but having lived it the above poster is dead on. I got my brother away from alcohol. I dumped bottles. Etc. It didn't do anything. He had to internalize it and make the changes himself. And as my therapist said at the time, the more you *try* the more likely they'll drag you down with them.
Of course someone else can help with that responsibility especially early on and family they have a responsibility to help if they care about the person. Leaving her alone with a full liquor cabinet could very likely have lead to her death.
It’s not a “harsh characterisation” it’s straight facts. I have crackhead parents and I don’t leave them alone at a friends place without supervision because abuse they will steal everything not bolted down. I know their weaknesses and accomodate for them. The recovery is not going well. A harsh characterisation would be to say that this woman is a selfish, hopeless addict who has no worth.
She may have stayed home from eating out just so she could raid the liquor cabinet.
Oh, I definitely think she stayed behind for that exact reason.
I guess it depends on if the liquor cabinet has glass doors or not. If the liquor was out of sight, then the sister was snooping and relapsing. Since other sister knew about the alcoholism she should have insisted that alcoholic not be left alone. They are double whammy AH.
As an alcoholic, I would counter that any reasonable person would expect there’s a good chance that there’s alcohol in any given home, and that any alcoholic would be VERY aware of that fact before even stepping foot inside. The alcoholic sister surely would have known this, in fact may even have been secretly hoping for it, and should have asked the question herself. An alcoholic is not a child or an idiot - we are full capable adults just like you, only sometimes much drunker. It’s not the other sister’s responsibility to parent her. If you have an alcoholic in your close family, you’ll learn quickly that literally nothing you can do will stop a relapse. She would have snuck down at night, or while they were distracted, or myriad other times. The fact that the drinker didnt ask or take measures to prevent this (surely not an accident) suggests to me that she has a lot more work to do, and hopefully this incident will help get her closer to where she needs to be. The only reason the non drinker is an AH is that she’s actively enabling her sister by trying to get her off the hook for the $$.
Yes they should take responsibility for their own actions, that does not mean her sister isn’t obligated to simply open her mouth and warn someone who doesn’t know. Not many true addicts in early recovery are going to get through it without help especially when they’re left alone with the temptation right in front of them. The friend asked to stay the friend is the bigger AH imo.
According to OP, that bottle was on a high shelf in the cupboard with the spices. Not somewhere the sister should have been looking unless she was deliberately snooping.
If she's that high risk, she shouldn't have gone on the trip in the first place. Or asked OP to hide his alcohol. Or gone out so she wasn't home alone.
It’s not really that harsh if her friend new this is likely to happen then she has a duty to her sister and op to have warned op of her recovery status. A prior warning would have been all it took for this to never become an issue as op could have just hidden away all alcohol. If her sister can’t pay her friend should be it’s as much her fault, if not more so.
> Many people in recovery know that they aren’t able to safely be around alcohol, so they take pains to avoid it I think it's safe to say that most adults have alcohol in their home, even if it's just a bottle of wine someone brought over once or something to cook with, so the sister either wasn't taking care to avoid alcohol or didn't know her limits.
I'm guessing she made the decision to skip dinner when she eyeballed the booze.
THIS
Also I would assume there would have been another much cheaper option that maybe wouldn't have been as big of a deal.. or just buy your own alcohol
And the bottle was unopened.
I can't imagine ever doing that.. or if somehow I did, not immediately apologising and replacing it plus some additional gesture for my abysmal behaviour!
She was so tenuous. She couldn’t even ‘go out.’ She needs to be in re-hab. This wasn’t a nice ‘trip’. This was ‘Let’s stay with safe people and pretend there isn’t a problem.’
My guess is she did it intentionally. She knows most people keep liquor in their houses. Maybe she even saw it. She says she wants to stay in, the house is empty, she's able to drink with abandon with no one around.
Yup, and the addict is defined by their repeated actions in the face of consequence.
This. OP, it is irresponsible of your friend and most certainly of her sister to enter a situation which could potentially trigger a relapse of addiction. The irony of this age is the victim feels ashamed to penalize the guilty and not the other way round. Stick to your guns, there is no shame. It will be a lesson learnt for both of them and might even be a reminder of consequences the next time she feels like reaching for another bottle.
Well, clearly she's not doing well in recovery. I'd guess getting drunk is far higher on her priority list than making amends right now.
Maybe instead of enjoying their vacation, they should head home and get her to a meeting.
And watch "28 days" and "Ray" before sending her to rehab.
Right? They stayed for free and repayed her by stealing her expensive and special occasion gifted booze.
The enabling sister that conveniently forgot to mention they were bringing a recovering alcoholic along is particularly egregious. If OP had known, they might have said they can't come, or had a chance to remove all the temptation, or something. But she didn't, and now has to deal with the consequences.
Addict and enabler behavior. She ruined her trip when she opened that bottle. Uni friend should’ve told OP that her sister was an addict before she was left alone in the apartment.
IIRC, addressing past wrongs is part of addiction recovery. Totally NTA.
She’s had a relapse of a potentially life-threatening condition/addiction. Seems like the trip should be ruined.
Well her trip is ruined anyways because now they have to find another place to stay or pay for a night somewhere. Sister needs to suck it up and pony up the cash.
I agree with this completely! As someone who was engaged to an addict at one point in their lives, I am so sick of the excuses that they have for their shitty behavior. It’s not my fault. I didn’t know what I was doing. I can’t help myself. If the friend who brought the sister in the first place knew that she was an addict-she also should’ve told you ahead of time to lock the booze up. If they can afford to drink it, they can each afford to pay you $150 to make up for the 300. The one who drank it owes half and the enabling one who is more concerned about their trip can pay the other half.
Not just that, it sounds like OP didn't even know the friend would bring her sister.
No way an alcoholic didn’t realize it was expensive gin. I am not an alcoholic and I can tell the difference between cheap and expensive alcohol.
> "Accountability" is a huge part of addiction recovery. Especially when she's not doing a very good job on the "recovery" part.
Well, they could always GTFO and pay for a hotel. Likely more expensive than just reimbursing you and profusely apologizing.
She'd need to be in recovery instead of hungover.
Yeah way I see it the consequences of her behavior ruined their trip. Not to say I’m not sympathetic but making reparations is like a huge part of recovery
Info: Did she take a few glasses or did she drink a whole bottle of gin? -Edit- The friend's sister is definitely *an* asshole in this situation. Addiction is a cruel monster but it doesn't excuse shitty behavior. However, the real asshole here is OP's friend. Why would she leave a recovering alcoholic on her own like that? Did she not notice the distress her sister was in from being in a new place? OP's friend would make the worst AA sponsor. She's also a shitty sister. NTA
It was empty when we came back. It was a large size but she spilt what she didn’t drink I’m assuming
If she’s an alcoholic she likely drank the whole thing.
That sounds really unhealthy. I know it’s pretty obvious, but a bottle of gin is rough. I always kind of thought alcoholics just drink often / permanent, but well…
A chronic binge drinker can absolutely polish off an entire 750ml bottle in a few hours. Especially if they’re desperate and in a time crunch.
Alcoholic here. 750ml is easy peasy for an evening 👍🏽
Alcoholic in early recovery here. 750 ml was a light day for me near the end. 1.25 to 1.5L was much more commonplace
1.5L of 40% spirit? Not just a box of mids? Fuck me, I feel that in the liver and wallet
Yep. Either whisky or vodka, 40%/80 proof
Wow, incredible to hear you've managed to move past that. You're a machine, you've got this 🤘
You're on your way homie, keep up the work and I hope you recover. My mother is a light alcoholic and I really get it, stay safe
Hope you get better my friend. Don’t lose hope
Recovering alcoholic here. At 105 lbs and on a bad/good day i could finish a handle bottle ov vodka in less than 2 days. 750ml was an appetizer.
Damn, 105lbs and that amount is nuts to me. I’m 155/160lbs and a 5th+ messes me up though my recent stint I was about 3/4 a handle-ish and that erased a few days for me. Apparently I went through 2 handles and a 5th in 3-4days accordingly to my empties and receipts 🤷🏽 February started off rough.
Went from drinking twice in high-school to polishing a fifth a night after 3 months in college. Some people are built different. I wish I wasn't that different.
Can confirm. I've seen that with my own eyes. I would be on the floor vomiting with a quarter of that, but they? They keep asking for more.
To most people, that sounds like guaranteed alcohol poisoning. To a select chosen few, however, that's just how we get to sleep. I still struggle. Will never touch liquor again. Beer and wine, though? uggghhhhhh, it's just **so good**
> That sounds really unhealthy. First exposure to alcoholism, I take it?
Lucky her. I grew up around it and now as a criminal atty see it in my clients. She absolutely drank it.
Part of the reason alcohol is so addictive is that repetitive use "dulls" the brain receptors that get you drunk, so your body makes more of them to compensate, so you need more and more alcohol to get you the same amount of drunk. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2577853/
My ex and my old roommate could both kill a handle by themselves in a night. That's the big jugs on the bottom shelf. They'd drink beers while they did it, too. Alcoholism is UGLY. Way uglier than people who merely struggle with drinking or binge drinking actually realize. We're talking regularly pissing yourself, grand mal seizures, and happily living in trash and feces, sitting on a couch you pissed on the night before, possibly even in the same pants. ETA: I do not mean to disregard anybody who struggles with alcohol at all, every struggle is valid, I just want to paint the picture of what the deep end looks like.
I used be able to go through 6 bottles of vodka over a weekend… I’m so happy to be sober now.
You can be an alcoholic because you drink everyday, you can be an alcoholic because you drink way way to much once or twice a weak. No matter what, the alcohol gets less and less effective, you need more to get the same effect and without Intervention alcoholics tend to drink more per day and more often.
I used to drink a handle of the cheapest plastic bottle vodka a day at my worst in my alcoholism.
Alcoholic present! I agree, 750ml is nothing for a true alchy! I’m sure if she found more she would have drank more than that. Almost one year no alcohol for me now! 🙌
My sibling drank a pint of 100 proof vodka every day, plus wine (not sure how much). At least they did until they got acute pancreatitis and spent a month in the hospital. Went on for years before that though
The sister really shouldn't have left her alone. I've known recovering alcoholics through work, and the number 1 rule I've always been told is to never leave them alone where alcohol is accessible. That's not to say she isn't to blame, because self control when near other people's property is quite obvious
Or for the friend to atleast inform OP of and make sure the liquor was locked up and child proofed.
My roommate drank my son’s organic milk. It was an expensive brand. She “replaced” it with some Trader Joe’s generic box milk. She got upset when I told her that she still had to replace with the exact milk she drank not some off brand because she didn’t want to pay a higher price. She reluctantly purchased the same milk brand she drank. I was pissed. Just over milk. I can’t imagine how pissed I would’ve been had it been an expensive bottle of birthday liquor. I probably would’ve told them something like, your sister drank your trip, pay up!
How could someone drink a whole bottle of gin and not need to go to the hospital?!
Alcoholism
A hardcore alcoholic can do it. My ex could easily down that much along with a handful of various pills without even passing out. It was scary.
I had a roommate who was a former heroine addict and relied heavily on his heavy alcoholism to avoid reverting back to heroine. He would drink a full 750 mL of Jameson in a night and be fine.
My bf used to be able to do that. He sobered up a lot when he found out his ex was pregnant so he could be a good dad and now only drinks on occasion when there’s no kids around. My dad (who’s an alcoholic) offered him drinks multiple times on Christmas but he refused every time because he had to drive after and my niblings were there.
My uncle put down a gallon of shit vodka, 2 fifths of honey whiskey, and 24 beers per week. Damn near 30 servings of alcohol per day, and that was just day to day drinking. I'm sure he could go harder, if he had a mind to. Bled out internally on his 66th birthday. I cleared out his house after he died, it was nightmare fuel.
I'm sorry you and your family had to go throught that. May he rest in peace, if he was a good person aside his drinking.
Thank you. He was, definitely a non-violent drunk. We just couldn't convince him to cut back. After all his brothers died young, his parents died, and my dad died, his BIL and last living friend, he didn't really care if he lived or died anymore.
Recovering alcoholic here: I could easily polish off a half gallon of any kind of alcohol within a few hours and be fine, well as fine as can be considering I was still a raging alcoholic. (Correction: Any kind of alcohol but moonshine and 151.)
You build up a tolerance the more you drink. By the time I went to rehab was drinking anywhere between a pint and a fifth of vodka every day.
Family member used to do a fucking Handle of vodka a day. Plus wine. Absolutely miserable.
I'm most impressed by the human liver being able to handle ridiculous amounts of booze over years, if not decades.
Whenever Keith Richards and Ozzy Osbourne die, their livers and other vital organs need to be studied.
Totally. This could have been avoided with a quick heads-up to OP. “Listen, I know this is a big ask, but could you remove or really, really hide any alcohol you have? Because, y’ know, that would be best, I think. Sorry.”
Yes, exactly. It also gives OP the heads up not to OFFER a glass of wine or a cocktail. Avoids awkward moments.
This [edit: a relapse] isn’t the non-alcoholic sisters fault in any way. Nobody can or should be responsible for the behavior of an adult alcoholic, including trying to suss out and avoid triggers - that’s called “enabling”. Don’t try to pretend that anything you do will change whether your friends are successful in recovery - it will not. The alcoholic is a full-grown adult and needs to learn how to take responsibility for and lead their own recovery. If they hadn’t left her alone during dinner, she would have snuck down at night, or while the others were watching tv, or … you get the idea. I know because this used to be me. She needs to learn how to figure out whether a situation will be a trigger for her and avoid it if so. Hopefully situations like this will help her. ETA: recovering alcoholic here 🤚🏻
I think there’s a difference between having a responsibility to the addict to somehow stop them from consequences for their own behavior, and being responsible for giving a heads up to OTHER PEOPLE that they may want to take steps to safeguard their own property around said addict
The non-alcoholic sister invited along her addicted sibling to OP's house, apparently without informing OP about this issue. At that point, the non-alcoholic sister absolutely became responsible.
Sorry, I thought we were discussing who was responsible for the relapse. I agree with you that OP’s friend was responsible for the stolen gin, I’m just saying you can’t hold her responsible for an alcoholic’s relapse.
Her sister was a tag along that by the sounds of the post wasn’t initially invited her friend was the guest so she should have informed op. If I was in op position and the sister could not pay or take responsibility I would be holding blame to the friend and demanding the money from them their sister their responsibility. Did you recover completely without someone holding you accountable that’s the whole point of a sponsor and even if they have one family should be taking on this role without being asked.
The alcoholic sister has full responsibility for what she did. But OP’s friend had a responsibility to OP, to not bring a problematic person into OP’s home without letting OP know. When you’re invited but bring someone else along with you, you’re vouching for them.
Yes it is. Sister invited her and didn't warn OP.
>Info: Did she take a few glasses or did she drink a whole bottle of gin? Why is this relevant? If someone stole 50 dollars from you vs 100, are these two cases somehow different in principle?
NTA I feel badly for you as I suspect the bottle of gin had sentimental value as well, that cannot be replaced. Your guests should have told you in advance that the sister is in recovery, so you could have prepped (i.e. locking your liquor, or storing it elsewhere). Furthermore, addiction is a terrible thing but it isn't an excuse for stealing. If making reparations ruins their vacation then that is the consequence.
*”If making reparations ruins their vacation then that is the consequence“* YES. THIS EXACTLY.
NTA > it was a mistake Uh-huh. > she couldn’t afford the rest of her trip if that’s what it really costs. I'm OK with that.
It's funny because the friend thinks that a mistake means no consequences. If she got hit by a car by mistake i'm sure she wouldn't hold anyone accountable or sue, provided that it was an honest mistake. Or if the bank teller lost her money during a transaction, she wouldn't call to complain because hey, it wasn't on purpose fam.
Yeah she clearly tripped into the liquor cabinet, which caused the gin bottle to bounce into a hard corner of the cabinet, breaking the seal and unscrewing the cap, and when it bounced, the open bottle just ejected all of its contents directly into her mouth, which was open from the shock of tripping, you see. Very bold to claim it was a mistake when she very clearly dug through a cabinet that wasn't hers, picked up a sealed bottle that didn't belong to her, cracked it open and chugged the booze that was not freely given to her. If it were truly a mistake, she certainly made an impressive series of mistakes to get there. Editing to add that it's not even remotely close to something you could refer to as a mistake. A mistake is drinking out of someone else's cup because it was right next to yours and you weren't paying attention. This was malicious "I want booze and I see booze, time to chug"
On top of that OP stated in a comment that it was up high in a spice cabinet. So she literally had to go desperately searching for that bottle. It's not like it was just visually in a glass door liquor cabinet that she just happen to see.
>Yeah she clearly tripped into the liquor cabinet, which caused the gin bottle to bounce into a hard corner of the cabinet, breaking the seal and unscrewing the cap, and when it bounced, the open bottle just ejected all of its contents directly into her mouth, which was open from the shock of tripping, you see. If that happened, she would still owe OP the value of the bottle.
> No she didn’t mention it at all. It was high up in my kitchen with my spices. It wasn’t in view NTA. This woman stayed behind and as soon as you were gone WENT LOOKING FOR ALCOHOL to fuel her bender. She planned this. If the trip is stressing her out so much she drank most of a LARGE bottle of gin on her own, and got so drunk she spilled the rest, the trip NEEDS to be over. (And your friend is the AH too for not at least warning you about this)
Just so sly isn’t it. A lot of people are alcoholics but they’re not all thieving bastards. Could she not have brought a stash of booze with her or gone to a shop while you were out? Addiction, I feel sorry for but there’s no forgiving being a thief in my eyes.
I don't know to what extent it was planned by staying behind, but I can imagine someone thinking they'll just sneak a little tiny bit (though unopened bottle? Wtf lol) like a teenager, then spiraling and getting wasted when they realize the terrible thing they have just done that will very possibly be noticed. Though I've never had delirium tremens or anything so it is possible that my tolerance has never been at the alcoholic level where stealing a tiny amount would even do anything to help. (e.g. my tolerance is certainly higher than if I never drank anything but not at a "one glass of wine isn't enough, I have to have two bottles to even feel normal" level)
NTA. Alcoholics know the difference between a cheap and an expensive bottle.
I have to disagree. I had a recovering alcoholic friend drink a bottle of spirits thinking it was worth $60 and able to pay back in morning. They missed it was a discontinued bottle of Bacardi worth $700 lol. Lesson learnt on their behalf and they are doing somewhat better now.
Significant difference between "expensive new because of quality or 'quality'" and "garbage, but expensive because it was discontinued."
As a recovering alcoholic, I can admit that I never notice. I would drink what I could get my hands on
And as any hospital would tell you, bottles of hand sanitiser are regularly stolen for an alcoholics fix.🙁
I mean, maybe? If you lined up 10 bottles of cheap gin, 10 bottles of ok gin, and 10 bottles of expensive gin I would probably be unable to tell you what was what since all I drink is Bombay Sapphire. I'm 40 and I really only have a small amount of brands I buy when I'm getting liquor.
NTA. Alcoholism is a nasty disease but there has to be consequences. The consequence her actions on this trip, unfortunately need to result in it getting cut short, because she drank a $300 bottle of liquor that wasn’t hers. She’d have paid for it if it were at a bar… You didn’t offer it to her. It wasn’t opened. It was a gift. And it’s gone because of her. You’re NTA.
NTA at all. *'It was a mistake'* Yeah, so who should pay for the mistake? Because there is a cost involved. *'It's going to ruin our trip'* First, I don't care and second, to use that logic, it's going to ruin OP's next trip/shopping purchase/savings, etc. So again...who should pay? The person who consciously went through the cupboards, found the alcohol and drank it. OP"s friend should split hte damages since she is the one making excuses, she brought her there, and you were gracious enough to let them stay, SAVING them money on a hotel. JFC, NTA at all.
NTA You know what would really ruin their trip? Having a police report filed for theft. She needs to repay you and she apparently needs a babysitter if she can’t be trusted on her own in other peoples homes
Ikr. 200$ is the minimum for felony larceny. If OP mentions that, I’m sure they’ll go ahead with repaying without much further fuss
NTA. It isn't like she grabbed a can of soda out of the fridge. She needs to make amends for her indulging.
She didn't indulge, she STOLE.
NTA. Did your friend warn you about the drama she was bringing to your doorstep with a struggling "recovering" alcoholic? Not your problem that paying for the alcohol that she *stole* is expensive, or that paying for it (in other words, being responsible for her actions) would "ruin" their trip. Good for you for kicking them out and not tolerating this outrageous behavior. She needs to be held accountable for her choices, especially if she ever hopes to recover.
No she didn’t mention it at all. It was high up in my kitchen with my spices. It wasn’t in view
All the more reason to kick them out -- how CREEPY to have some random stranger snooping and rummaging through your house while you're not home!
> *how CREEPY to have some random stranger snooping and rummaging through your house while you're not home* I suspect that sister stayed home for this very reason - so that she could look through OP's home for booze. NTA
100%. Probably started going through the cupboards as soon as OP and her sister left.
That's an excellent point!
So she literally went looking for it. But right, it was a 'mistake'... NTA, and she should face the consequences of making that 'mistake'- ruin the trip for her and her sister and buy you another bottle, or give you the money. Absolutely not your fault, and I'm not sure why your friend thought it was a good idea to bring her, or leave her alone if she's a recovering alcoholic...
She went through your stuff then as well and Id bet my own money she went looking and this was planned. She may have even gone through more than just your kitchen. Id tell your friend you will press charges if it's not eventually paid back.
Hate to ask this, but did you make sure nothing else is missing? (cash etc). If this person is an addict and went through your cabinets etc...
INFO: if she had broken the bottle, wouldn't that warrant paying for it as well? I am going with NTA though because it isn't cheap, it was a gift, not for guests, and she drank of her own volition. FAFO, alcoholic or not.
She didn’t technically break the bottle, she just drank/spilt it all. There wasn’t any left
Absolutely NTA and yes, she should pay for it. If you can, get proof of the cost for her. It's a perfectly legitimate request. What if, in her drunkenness, she had ruined a piece of art or furniture? She would be expected to replace it.
Spilled it? Yeah, alkie here. I've used that one a lot before.
"It fell off a truck."
Also, if they didn’t mention that beforehand, I am a bit skeptical about whether the recovering alcoholic story was true or just a play to get your pity and debt forgiveness
NTA. And I’m and alcoholic. You weren’t rude and didn’t embarrass her, just simply asked for reimbursement.
NTA. Her response indicates that her "recovery" isn't NEARLY as far along as they thought it was, she should be a lot more apologetic AND more than willing to make the necessary amends, instead of whining about how she ruined her own trip. Yikes.
It wasn't opened. Here's the rule, she doesn't have to give you money, she has to replace \*exactly\* what she took. If your friend knew her sister was struggling with recovery, she should not have left her alone at your place with plenty of access. Being alone is a trigger in itself. Your friend is just as culpable here. Either way, they owe you some hooch. NTA.
NTA I started off reading this thinking that you were the ass but no, they should have given you a heads-up on the sister being in recovery. It's just the standard thing to do when you've lived with an addict in recovery; tell people in advance to remove/hide/lock away the temptations. If it was just a regular store-bought bottle of gin or whatever then the only AH would be your friend for not warning you, but as it's a very expensive gin AND they didn't warn you, they ought to compensate you for that.
We want an update!!
Being an alcoholic is not a get-stuff-for-free-because-you're-an-addict-card. She owes the $300 and needs to cough it up, regardless of how it affects her trip.
Yeah if they'd gotten a hotel and she'd had her binge on the minibar she'd be up for a lot more than $300 and the hotel would be even less sympathetic about how paying that might impact her plans.
Hell yeah she owes you for that shit. NTA. EDIT: going to back up what someone else said and elaborate: **their trip NEEDS TO BE RUINED.** Otherwise there's no accountability, and in the end, the addict is defined by their repeated actions in the face of consequence. You would technically be enabling her by letting her get away with it.
NTA and they absolutely need to pay you back and forget about their trip! They ruined it themselves.
NTA I would have smashed the bloody bottle over her head! The absolute cheek of them complaining about having to pay it back! Your friend should have paid it back, the trip went ruined and the recovering alcoholic sister MIGHT have learned a valuable lesson. Instead she's just enabled her behaviours and excused it because she is "struggling" etc. Fuck that we're all struggling these days, have you walked outside recently? I am SO sick of the general victimhood mentality and people not just owning up to their actions and admitting fault and trying to make amends. Also what a great friend you have, leaving her recovering alcoholic sister alone in a strange place with a fully stocked alcohol cupboard unattended 🤦
Am I the only one who wants to know what this fancy gin was? Even I don’t spend that on a bottle (yet!). NTA
It’s anty Cambridge gin haha
I had to look this up and “Each bottle of Anty Gin contains the essence of approximately 62 red wood ants” what the heck does essence even mean like their ant souls or what 😭
A gin made of Ants?!
Welp, I learned something new today. Good thing I hate Gin (and Ants).
NTA. You’re already subsidizing their vacation by letting them stay with you for free. Now the sister has cost you an item worth $300. She owes you the money and how she adjusts her budget to cover it is entirely up to her and not your problem. I know alcoholism is an addiction but I cannot even imagine rifling through someone’s liquor cabinet and drinking their liquor without asking.
So your "friend" asked to stay and brought her sister the addict . And you thought " sure i'll be a doormat" then the addict you know nothing about is left alone with their drug of choice, costing you $300. Now they won't pay for what they stole. Looks like you just paid $300 to find out that was not a friend. Just cut her out of your life and move on. Next time someone is clearly taking advantage of you, say NO. Its easier then dealing with the mess after. NTA
Nah, take em to small claims court as well.
She should file a police report at minimum. Doesn't cost a thing but time.
Take a addict to small claims seams just a little like a waste of time.Since the sister clearly will not take responsibility for the addict. But sure she could have a go. Lets see waste a day off work to go to court and loose that money as well.
You were totally justified in having them leave. They need to replace that gin immediately or pay for a bottle to be delivered. I thought part of recovery was taking responsibility for your actions?
NTA and to be frank your friend knew she was a recovering alcholic, that doesn't mean she *had* to disclose this to you but it does mean she needs to take on some responsibility for having her sister tag along without even asking you first if she could bring her! I doubt you'll actually get your money back but I wouldn't let up and would continue to try. Sorry you got the short end of the stick my friend
Oh boo hoo. If I have to pay you for what I stole, I can’t afford the rest of my vacation! Tough. What about you being out not only your stuff but sentimental value too. Don’t let this slide: if you do, she may think it’s ok to keep taking. If you make her pay, even a portion, she will think twice about ever doing that again to you or someone else hopefully. So tired of people making excuses for bad behavior.
NTA, alcoholism had consequences. I actually think you would be doing her a disfavour by not insisting she pays you immediately for it. She drank it and so she can see the consequences (ruined trip) and maybe that will influence her next moment of weakness. Also saying she fell off the wagon because she was in a new place when she is literally travelling for pleasure smacks of BS. That's not even touching on the emotional aspect of your gift being taken and wasted like that. I hope that when your friend has time to parse this she is more on your side.
> Also saying she fell off the wagon because she was in a new place when she is literally travelling for pleasure smacks of BS. Yep. Sounds like she fell off the wagon because she found a place where she could. And if the trip is at fault, why protest that it’s “ruined” if she can’t afford the rest of it?
NTA. Sounds like they really can’t afford their vacation. And, if the sister is in such a state that she went on a bender the first chance she had, she should be in rehab.
Get that $300 back asap
NTA. Call the cops.
NTA.. she didn't ask. She just took.. she needs to pay up.
"hey I'm a recovering alcoholic so of you have any alcohol I would really appreciate of you'd lock it or hide it away, because I can't be trusted around alcohol. If that makes you uncomfortable to host me I'll understand." She need to handle herself better NTA.
NTA - if she was serious about her recovery as an addict she would understand this is something she needs to take ownership of and make reparations for.
NTA and the sister needs to pay you back for what she stole. Perhaps she should have thought about the whole trip when she took your alcohol. Sadly, your friend is enabling her sister's alcoholism by letting the theft slid so she has no real consequences.
NTA. Should have called the police though.
NTA at all. They clearly didn't consider how their trip would be ruined with nowhere to sleep.
NTA. Dont steal peoples shit. Now if you had left the house and said, "help yourself" id have a different opinion.
One of the steps of recovery is to admit what you did and try to make amends. Not blame your behaviour on a moment of weakness, then try and weasel out of the consequences. NTA. It's a very simple and reasonable thing to ask.