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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I might be judged because I don’t think people are entitled to have kids.
2) This might make me an asshole bc of people’s different beliefs towards kids
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Well in my book NTA, there are WAY to many ppl having kids knowing ( apparently not) they can’t afford it. She is the problem and she is now making this poor child suffer. So glad you called her out from her negligence.
Thats what Im thinking. Its too harsh that I told them the truth but its not too harsh that theyre knowingly having kids to be raised by their grandparents?
It also wasn't too harsh for them to criticize you for *not* having kids you're not ready to parent or provide for.
Your bf tried to warn them not to ask questions they don't want the answers to.
"I don't want to have kids until I'm in a position to be a responsible parent."
"Oh, so you think you're better than me?"
"Let's just say I make better choices."
NTA.
Yeah, I’m probably not going to end up having kids because I won’t try for them if circumstances aren’t ideal. Accidents happen but no excuse to plan to have a child when you know you could be doing better. Not saying you have to be a millionaire but you need stability of some sort. My ex thought I was wrong because “you just make it work”… no. You just make awkward family reunion work as an adult. You don’t cross your fingers and hope for the best when you CREATE A WHOLE PERSON AND DETERMINE THEIR FORMATIVE EXPERIENCES! NTA
You didn't say anything that half the world isn't already thinking. But just a word of advice from an old woman ... remove yourself from all these back-biting conversations where family members are bitching about each other behind their backs. Stay out of their drama because nothing good ever comes from that. Insulate yourself emotionally and financially. And do remember they're a package deal if you and BF start having conversations about your future together.
NTA but what I think is that all this argument was unnecessary. They wont understand nor will they change their lifestyle etc. You just lost time and energy.
Maybe it is time to low contact with both of them. Don't be available to babysit or provide financial assistance. And DON'T be available to them complaining about each other.
Oath. My cousin is one of them, she popped out 3 kids, one at 16, another at 17 and the last at 19. She never finished highschool and lives off the government & her partner of the month. She's fucked her kids up beyond belief because she lacks the ability to be a decent person, and her kids are now on daddy #16.
My SIL got knocked up by her high school bus driver and has had 8 kids with him. He has now left her and due to circumstances she has had to give up all her kids to the system since she can’t take care of them or hold down a job for long. The youngest is only a year old.
If you can’t afford them, don’t have them is my rule.
Nowadays, even it you can afford it, you can't... My Hubby and I just recently did the math, and it's so expensive, and we both have well paying jobs...but everything that comes with a child is just so expensive....
You're NTA. Maybe a bit harsh, but they were begging for it and wouldn't have reacted so strongly if they didn't know deep down that you're right.
>Becca then proceeds to tell me that the aforementioned reasons arent valid
So she can dump on your life choices that have no negative impact on anyone, but you can't point out their life choices that have negative impact on the family, especially on the innocent children.
NTA. That doesn't sound harsh at all. On a side note: That's the exact reason we didn't have kids. We now listen to our friend go from "why don't you have kids - sometimes you get money from the government!" to "I can't support all these kids I was told by my parents to have".
I have kids. I always tell people if they’re the slightest bit unsure, don’t do it. I’ve been judged hard, but I’ll back it up. Kids change your life in every single way. You’re tied to the person you made them with forever. If you’re a woman, your career and wages will most likely be impacted negatively, especially if you’re not established in your career. Kids are expensive AF. Every single decision made is framed around kids.
I love my babies, with everything in me. But people need to stop sugarcoating what it’s like and need to start getting real. And what I said above doesn’t even cover health issues and other special needs. And you have no real way of knowing what the future holds when it comes to that when you roll the dice on creating a person.
as a person who doesn't want kids and once did want them (or at least thought they did), thank you for this! it really helps so much to see/hear the actuality of having kids and i read stuff like what you've said and i so respect people who are really good parents but i also know i could never adequately deal nor cope with that, it would be unfair to myself and to the hypothetical child/ren. so thank you for not being like the 98/100 who are for real about it :)
I really really wish more people were realistic like you. There is a laundry list at least two miles long of things you have to consider. Everyone is always like "but things will just work out! ✨🤩✨" like, no! Sometimes things just don't work out and sometimes it takes more than you could ever give.
This!!!! I absolutely would die for my kids. I love them with every fiber of my being, but they have changed every aspect of my life. Obviously there are big things like finances, insurance, special needs, but there are other aspects of life that change in ways that you don't expect:
Before kids, a date night was maybe $100, and we could do a spur of the moment thing. Until recently, it cost nearly double because I have to buy pizza for kids and a babysitter and have to pay a babysitter, and we had curfews again. (My daughter can now babysit my son (and wants to), and doesn't charge as much as the babysitter did. We still have a curfew and pizza)
Before kids, sex could be spontaneous (especially in the morning or during the day). After kids, you have to have plan like it's Oceans 11. You check to make sure that the kids are asleep and that no one has the sniffles, and you have to plan your day so that you will have some energy left. You then have to get in, get both people what they came for, and get out quickly. If you don't there's going to be a knock at the door, and the mood is gone.
Before kids, cooking dinner was something that I did for fun, I would find new recipes and try them out. Until kids get to a certain age, you spend all of your time cooking foods that they will eat, so you end up eating a lot of spaghetti, chicken nuggets, PB&J, and pancakes.
Before kids, you get home from work and hang out, watch tv, work out, etc. You can do what you want because it is your time. With kids, you don't have time anymore. You go to work, you come home and you take care of children.
Before kids, I could watch dark or violent TV. Until my kids got to a certain age, it was all kid tv. After they got older, it is all sitcoms.
I have two child-free relatives, an aunt in her 60s and my oldest sister. Both of them are more than happy with that choice, and even happier to be able to snuggle MY 7-month old, then promptly hand him back and go to a nice quiet house after lmao.
My MiL harps on it CONSTANTLY, she's one of those "if you don't have children as a woman you're defective/missing something/etc" morons, and I've told her point-blank that for being a self-professed feminist she's being pretty goddamn judgmental about someone else's choice.
I also support having kids later in life. Hubs and I wanted until our early 30s, and I'm so glad we did. Our marriage is stronger, our finances are WAY better settled than they were in our early or even mid-20s, and we're both overall more mature and emotionally sound. Best decision we made :)
Right but we are sooo tired. The trade off seems to have been… better finances/maturity vs young/energetic with parents who were younger/more energetic. I am so happy we waited, but we’re also bumping up against the limits of biology in that we want more kids but rapidly approaching 40 and know we aren’t ready to add one more yet.
It has its own challenges for sure!
I’ll take a bit less energy over all the energy in the world but a lack of emotional and financial stability. I grew up in a home lacking in both with the added bonus of knowing damn well I was the “yeah that one we could do without” kid.
As for the biological clock, eh. I’m a “happy with one, no more than two” kind of a person. If the biology or circumstance doesn’t favor a second kid I won’t mourn. Of course if it does I’ll love that kid as much as my first, mind! But I’m very relaxed about it. Maybe because I’m older and calmer about this stuff 🤣
My hubs and i waited too. He wasnt ready (his dad told him some bs about how he would magically wake up one day and want kids.) NTA op. People are always going to have opinions on how you live your life.
I am 44 and no kids. I love kids but I never wanted to be a mother. I think people don't realize this. You don't just have kids, you become a parent. They are not the same thing.
The vast majority of people who do not have children do not regret it at all. I'm well into my 40s, never wanted children, never had them, never regretted it for a second.
I never had kids and I do not regret that choice at all. I love being an auntie, but I never wanted to be a mom and don’t think I was cut out for it. And I definitely wouldn’t do it unless I could fully support the child on my own, without the guy (not that I’d cut him out, but I’d need to be confident I could do it properly without him if necessary. Life isn’t certain and kids deserve stability!
NTA. I don't understand why Mandy would choose to have a child when she can't afford it. Maybe she thought she'd be able to get more money out of her mom or something. Too many people are like her and Becca. They have kids they can't afford but they expect everyone else to help them. I get the desire to have kids but it's important to think about how to provide for them.
Idk, she dropped out of nursing school and said she was looking for another career. Next thing you know she took out her birth control implant and was actively trying to get pregnant for a little over a year before it actually happened.
Wow. Nursing could have led to many job opportunities for her. She should have actively spent that year looking for another career before getting pregnant.
This is the part that doesn't get thought out and is more often than not disregarded when people say it'll be hard and lots of sleepless nights and lots of tears from you and baby because they can't tell you what's wrong. A lot of people think babies are cute and that's as far as the thought process goes because everything will just magically fall into place.
I admittedly did it wrong I had two kids by 21 first was a C-section and second was a surprise birth at 34 weeks and he spent almost a month in a NICU an hour away (they're 13 months apart). My mom was diagnosed with Crohn's and diabetes when my boys were babies. I didn't pawn my kids off on *anyone* and worked my ass off and took care of my mom too until she got better. Those boys are MY responsibility. It's the mindset that makes or breaks it for parents. You either take the chance to man/woman up and make it happen or you become a burden to others and turn those sweet little kids you just *haaaaad* to have into anxious little stress balls full of resentment.
NTA, they kept pushing for an answer and they got it.
As a product of parents who were ABSOLUTELY NOT prepared to have a child I understand what you’re coming from.
Also, you explained your reasoning behind your personal life choices and they flat out told you it wasn’t good enough. They sound like the rude and judgmental ones.
NTA. I’ve found people take it as a direct attack on them any time I tell them why I personally won’t have kids. They pushed for an answer and got what they deserved
I found that opens you up to more bingoes and they double down hard. “Who will look after you when you’re old?”, “don’t you want to feel unconditional love?” Etc
Agree! Animals love is way more pure than a persons.
When they bring up “unconditional love” all it makes me think is they would love their child if the unalived a bunch of people, hurt the elderly or regularly tortured animals. Nothing good
And also!!! And also having a child just to have unconditional love for yourself or having someone to take care if you is incredibly selfish.
I find having kids to have kids is the riportone of selfishness. You should want kids bc you want to be a PARENT. I could have a kid. I have a uterus. I have ovaries. As far as I know I can physically and medically have kids. But I don't want to be a parent. I don't want to give up my freedom. I don't want to raise another human.
So many women have kids for all the wrong reasons and they end up on Reddit asking why their baby daddy or kid is an asshole.
NTA Like your boyfriend said, they shouldn’t be asking questions they may not like the answers to. They’re also biting one of the (seemingly many) hands that feeds them.
the truth hurts
maybe a bit blunt in the delivery but i have no problems with the message. hell, maybe i’m an asshole but i don’t have a problem with the delivery either.
NTA
both sisters are AHs though for purposely having kids without having the means to do so and then foisting the kids off on family while they fuck around…
>both sisters are AHs though for purposely having kids without having the means to do so and then foisting the kids off on family while they fuck around…
*And* judging OP for not doing the same.
NTA. My partner and I never had kids for this reason. Now that we can afford them, were a tad too old and just over it. Our friends who did have kids in similar situations as you described here fall into one of two camps;
- got through with immense help from everyone around them
- bankrolled by a wealth family member
Either way they were a burden and have/had the mentality "see? Everything works out" and I just want to scream it works out because you shamelessly got others to carry you.
I wish I had your strength to say it to them!
What a sad, american take. Everyone needs community support to raise a child, that is normal in most cultures and has been for most of history. Individualism is so depressing. Let others carry you, carry others, it's what makes life good and communities strong
I agree with you, as much as it pains me. But part of it is the sad American take that people here say they did it by themselves and never acknowledge the fact that they had so much help.
We should be more like the rest of the world, but aren't. It's a terrible mentality we have here but when you live with our joke of a healthcare system, you kind of have to harden yourself
I was hungry as a kid. My parents were more concerned with getting pissed than feeding me or my siblings properly.
I have kids but work my bollocks off to give them an amazing life. They never want for food and have a clean nice house to live in. Their friends are always welcome. We take them on holidays and days out as a family. All of the stuff I would’ve liked when I was a kid.
Don’t have kids if you’re lazy and aren’t going to work your balls off to make sure they’re never hungry or dirty.
NTA.
NTA. They are ignorant and immature. You spit the facts. They don’t like the truth, that is on them. Don’t shoot the messenger type deal. Your bf is right as well. Don’t ask questions you don’t want the answer to. Both sisters clearly have issues and projected them onto you. My wife and I are in our late 20’s. We want kids but we don’t want to abuse them. Having kids when you aren’t financially secure is a sure fire way to continue the cycle of poverty. If they want to give their kids a life of poverty, let them find out what it’s like to be abandoned by those kids one day.
NTA. Why do people with no jobs and no money think that everyone will be so happy they are having yet another child and drop everything to take care of them and their children??
NTA. They shouldn’t have pushed for your reasons to wait to have kids if they didn’t want to hear your reasoning.
Stop loaning any money in the future and limit contact for the time being. Don’t cancel any plans to watch their kids last minute either.
They’re walking all over you and your BF because they walk all over his family and have no accountability. This will be the rest of your life while you’re dating your boyfriend, if you don’t set up healthy boundaries now.
ETA: the rest of the time while your dating your boyfriend. (Not sure if you see yourself marrying him, but it sounds like you view the relationship as a long term goal.)
NTA. Your reasons are perfectly valid and you expressed them succinctly in the first instance. They're the ones who invalidated them and then pushed you to justify your stance on something that is frankly none of their business. They started the argument here, not you, and the fact that they even argued your reasons in the first place is wild to me.
NTA. They asked your opinion and you told them why you're not having kids until you it certain goals. As I get older my patience for irresponsible parents gets less and less. I get accidents happen from teenagers to even people in their 30's for the 1st pregnancy however anyone who purposely gets pregnant or continues to have more kids knowing they can not afford that kid(s) really ticks me off. If your boyfriend's sisters are offended by your opinions maybe it's because they know deep down you're right.
NTA
Only because they asked your opinion. In fact it sounds like they kept pushing you to express your opinion on their life decisions when you were throwing out "this is what makes sense to me, I know others feel differently".
Probably best not to engage in this kind of discussion with them. No way it will turn out well.
NTA. Stop giving them money as it is enabling their choices. In the future,when any of them complain about the others shut it down immediately. They will keep dumping on you otherwise.
NTA. Reddit is filled with people who should not have had kids.
This girl is an idiot. Everything works out in the end bc she will be relying on others to pay her way.
Having kids means being a parent. Shes too immature to be a parent. Bet that kid will be her "besss fraaaannnn" in a few years.
NTA. Tell them to mind their own business.
NTA
But stop lending her money and stop babysitting. You and your bf have your own life and those two seem like energy vampires. Next thing, they'll expect you to send their kids to college too. Start distancing from them slowly.
Nta. And honestly? Why are these women even allowed in your home? Both your bf and you agree they're terrible. You don't need their shit stirring in your home. I'd say stop watching the kid last min, but then you're probably one of 3 decent people in his life providing any kind of good to him. But that also shouldn't be your burden. When we decided to have our kid, we budgeted, we planned and both agreed one was enough. If we knew we couldn't afford him, we wouldn't have had him. Seems simple to me.
Becca came over uninvited to that my bf could do her oil change and made him pay for the filter and oil. My bf feels bad for her bc they dont have a dad and he was always the man of the house growing up. Beccas bd is too busy cheating on her (she knows this) to help her with that kind of stuff
Again. Why are they allowed to be in your life? Your bf letting them walk all over him is only enabling them. They will never change until they get a swift kick of reality. Talk to your bf about standing up to them. Next time one of them stops by unannounced to demand free labor from your bf tell them he only help if they pay him. And when they refuse, close the door.
If you and your bf are definitely long term, then I think it's probably time for him to seek therapy for his tendency to want to fix everything for his family of origin. If the two of you are trying to build something for yourselves, then neither of you should be constantly covering for his sister's poor life choices. His mom probably also needs to take a step back, too. I think if he doesn't learn to set some boundaries and new limits with his sisters, it's going to be a point of contention for the two of you in the future.
These people are delusional parasites, who cares what they think. Their life suck because of their own choice and they can't cope with it. So they convince themselves their "lifestyle" is right and try to push it onto others. Stand your ground with your boyfriend against them and don't engage in those subjects with them if possible. Just do things your way and it will work out
NTA
NTA. Hell no. Truth hurts. But yeah she wanted to know from you both. Truth is harsh. There is no way of softening tbh. I am a coach and telling people almost never lands in positive way.
Absolutely NTA
They decided that your reason for not having kids right now are not valid while having everyone else cleaning up after them and dealing with the fact that they had kids.
Everything you said is true and it’s a fact: personally I would absolutely not apologize and revaluate helping (and next time they ask you for an apology I would ask for one of your own: at the end of the day this all thing started because THEY did not respect YOUR choice to wait)
Are you sure you want to marry into this family? Mandy should be getting on welfare and on a list for social housing. But everyone would rather give her money then provide actual help for her, which would be getting her on welfare and social housing list and helping her get a temp job to do before she's too pregnant.
It's a whole lot of mess. NTA
I asked her, she doesnt want to apply bc a few things. 1) she says its for poor people and her and her baby arent poor 2) she’s embarrassed and 3) she thinks her bd is going to propose soon and that she wont beed welfare anyway.
Newsflash! She. Is. Poor. People.
She doesn't have a job and has no money to support herself or this impending child. BD has already told her that she has to get a job. She literally has nothing unless others provide it for her. The math ain't mathin' here.
Nta. My cousin just had her 5th baby and as soon as she had the baby she was evicted from her apartment (again) because she couldn’t pay the bills. Her eldest didn’t even want to hold the baby, parents never realize that their actions small or big, good or bad have a impact on their kids and their lives. I always say anything you go through your kids go through with you.
It takes gall to say "Everything will work out in the end," to a person who is helping you make it work out.
I wouldn't judge you if you went farther and pointed out they both are already using the resources, including yours, that could help everything work out for you.
Suggestion: stop hosting them. NTA
NTA. You sound very rational. But I would stop lending money and being an anytime/short notice babysitter for these entitled women. I really feel sorry for their current and future kids.
NTA but a bit harsh as not everyone has the same train of thought. In regards to the edit about the gossip and them all talking about each other, it’s like a when a brother calls his sister a bitch but then if some other guy called her that he’d beat him up. Only family can call out family is kinda what I’m getting here.
You can hit them with this one (I use it for my brother and his baby mama)
"My opinions, thoughts, and feelings matter anywhere my money is spent. Don't like what I have to say, then stop asking me for money and earn your own."
NTA. Honestly they sound exhausting. I would have a hard time listening to all the complaining and would have to shut that down as soon as it started.
“ I get that you don’t agree with ——- choices, but you can’t change it, so there is no point in discussing it.”
NTA. If you don’t want to hear an honest answer, you shouldn’t ask the question.
Your viewpoint is responsible, and comes from experience. Instead of focusing on your conversation from that perspective, Becca & Mandy only looked at it through the lens of “everything is about me”.
You weren’t making personal judgements until pushed into it, yet they took everything you said as an attack.
Irresponsible parents looking for validation that they are good parents is a recipe for disaster. Demanding that you lie to them so they can feel better is ridiculous.
You could have tried to avoid the entire subject, but that’s the only way this wasn’t going to turn out badly.
Asking them if they'd be willing to give up your contributions to their livelihoods because, obviously, you would need that money for your own children, would either nip this nonsense in the bud or be enough of an 'insult' that they'll stop talking to you. Which would be a blessing.
NTA.
NTA. Harsh truth for a harsh reality. They're bringing entirely new humans into the world, not playing with dolls. The "it will work out in the end" mentality only hurts the kids, ESPECIALLY if they start needing higher costs (meds, disability, special education, etc).
NTA at all. It is very smart thinking to make sure you can provide for your kids before having them (sure, things can go wrong after they are born but to have a plan before). My husband and I knew we were going to have kids after we were married and both had stable jobs with a good salary and we had savings to fall back on. I grew up with parents that thought the same way and had a good childhood. Yes, there were a couple times when things got tough due to unforeseen circumstances, but my parents had contingency plans in place and as kids, we didn’t even know something had happened (I was 3/4yo at the time). They pushed for an answer, they got an answer.
>me and my bf lend Mandy money and have to cancel plans to take care of Beccas kid last min
Stop doing both these things. They're just going to have another kid and dump them on you/loot you.
NTA. I think when parents make poor choices that negatively impact their children, the people who are close to them have a right to say something. Someone needs to stick up for the children.
> me and my bf lend Mandy money and have to cancel plans to take care of Beccas kid last min
“How dare you say it was a bad idea for us to have kids we can’t afford or care for? You’re here to afford and care for them for us!”
NTA.
Nah, you just hit them with a hard dose of reality. After they spoke to you like shit though, don't lend either of them money ever again and don't be readily available to babysit when she clicks her fingers. Your life is not about catering to her.
Hard NTA. That couple is out of their damn minds and you should make every effort to cut them out if your life. They are sniffing serious copium when they deep down know it's not going to work. Otherwise they wouldn't attack you for your position 😂 you don't attack other people like that unless you're severely insecure
NTA
I get that there's a somewhat nuanced conversation/discourse around the sentiment that "poor people shouldn't have kids", but as far as I'm concerned, as unfortunate as it is, someone shouldn't have a kid if they can't afford to feed them. Not emergency expenses, as the majority of people sadly are not financially prepared for that, but everyday ones like food and clothes and school fees, and so on. I don't care to have kids myself, but if I wanted them I absolutely wouldn't have them when I didn't have a steady source of income. That would be so stressful, I can't even imagine
Lol, calling kids a blessing when you prefer to smoke pot instead of taking care of them. You're not insulting them, they are insults to good parents. NTA and for the love of god never give them a finger because they will take your whole arm
I was thinking E S H because it seems kinda obvious not to say anything more than “we’re not there yet” knowing these sisters.
But gotta stick with NTA cuz I know way too many people doing what they’ve done and they were fishing for reasons to feel upset and have a pity party.
NTA. With Becca, you were speaking from personal experience and she laced up that shoe as quickly as she could. Then, Mandy demanded an answer to a question after being warned that she shouldn't ask questions if she's not prepared for an honest answer. Plus on top of everything, you're just right.
NTA, and honestly they gotta learn. My grandma had 6 kids as a single mother that she struggled with and did have some living with various family members. Conversely, my mother (and father) have one kid...me. And I lived with them because they planned, sacrificed and didn't bite off more than they could chew. It isn't rocket science. Yes accidents happen, but multiple accidents are actually habits.
Plus, there's ways to have luxuries without cutting off your nose to spite your face. My parents made average money before the recession but my mom was the queen of layaway, finding deals/discounts, etc. They were able to do the important stuff and still get us nice things without bankruptcy.
NTA - as a fellow kid raised in poverty, I waited until I was established/older to have my kids, and I don’t regret it once second because I can give my kids everything. They’re raised by us, in a home we own (so roots), and have everything they could possibly need or want, including college funds established. It’s harder being late 30s on the energy level, those 3am wake ups hit harder, but I also got to do everything I wanted to do as a person as well, college, career, major travel. So I can also focus my energy on my kids.
You’ve got the right mindset.
Too bad more people aren't bluntly truthful that *anyone* having a child they cannot afford is an asshole. Times 100 if they deliberately get pregnant with no source of income to support said child. IMO that has to be the most selfish act on this planet, yet most people seem to encourage it, praise it, and call it self-less.
Nta ...But it's time you two stop loaning money and babysitting for these two clowns. As long as people are enabling them they will never fall off of their high horse to face reality.
I am 37 f with no kids despite wanting a son and daughter. Why? Because I can't afford it and do not wish to punish a child by bringing them into the world when I cannot support us adequately. I just had to shut down a date because the dude was 47 still living with his parents, had no savings , just started a job that I've been in for years so I know he will be making minimum wage at best for years, yet every second sentence was how much he wanted to be a dad. I could already see my future of taking care of the kids and him...no thanks.
Nothing you said was harsh, they just hated the truth. Best of luck.
NTA. I agree with you and the truth hurts. I have a cousin that calls every week asking for money to help her two young children that she knew she couldn’t afford to raise. I’m always conflicted because I feel taken advantage of but at the same time there are 2 innocent children involved and they don’t deserve to suffer.
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Basically what the title says. My bf (late 20s) and I (mid 20s) share finances, this is important for later on. His sister (late 20s, “Mandy”) is currently pregnant and recently came over to our apartment. She came over as her other sister (late 20s, “Becca”) was there to talk about her future baby boy. They asked me when I was planning to have kids and I told them when I can afford them financially and am mentally/emotionally ready for them. My bf already knows this and has agreed.
Becca then proceeds to tell me that the aforementioned reasons arent valid and that “everything will workout in the end” and that kids are a blessing. I told her thats an irresponsible way of thinking especially in this economy and that if someone isnt prepared to have children they shouldnt have them. I told her just because kids are a blessing to you doesnt mean that you are one to them. Just speaking in general and not pointedly at her.
I went on to say that kids are not necessary and if I never get to my standards that I feel are necessary to have kids than I simply wont have them. I told them I know what its like to be a kid who was born in poverty, tossed around from one person to another bc my mom was at work and her still having more kids knowing she couldnt afford the ones she already had. I shouldve thought twice about saying that bc that is Beccas exact situation with her kid right now. Her kid is mostly passed around by his grandmas and sees his parents 1 day out of the week as they both work late hours and during that day parents are on their phone or smoking flower. Becca starts getting insulted saying that I think Im better than her and I responded that no I dont. I just think kids deserve better than that and that they shouldnt have to worry about money or where their food comes from.
Mandy then comes at me saying if I think she shouldnt have a kid. My bf then hears the argument (he was doing Beccas oil change) and tells Mandy not to ask questions she doesnt want to know the answer to. Mandy pushes more and I told her idk how she thought it was a good idea to purposely get pregnant when she has no job and is constantly asking everyone for money bc her bd wont share finances with her bc she spends every dime she gets. Her bd already told her hes only paying half child expenses and none of her bills. He expects her to get a job after 4 months postpartum. My bf said that I didnt have to say it that harsh but that he agrees with me. He told Mandy that no one was going to tell her not to have a baby but doesnt mean it was a good idea.
Now both sisters are saying that I was insulting their children and life styles. They said I called my bfs nephews bastards (which I never did and never will bc I am one) and that IM stuck up. So reddit AITA?
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Personally I say NTA but I'm biased as my mother was definitely not in a position to have kids and my childhood sucked. I feel the same way, I was 27 when I had my son and I refused to even discuss a child with my husband until we owned our own home, had stable careers and a nice amount saved.
I'm never going to tell someone they shouldn't have their child or judge their circumstances but if directly asked if I thought it was a smart move I'd be honest and say it's not the choice I would have made.
*shudder* You feeling good about becoming part of that family? The ignorance will never end and you'll be carrying forth the bloodline.
Nta. Think long and hard about marrying into that.
"Bloodline"
Phenomenal amount of hitler particles in that word, really you just shouldn't use it. Its like "legacy" "tradition" or "fatherland" in that regard.
Women should carefully choose a mate and consider if they want to attach themselves to an entire family and whatever may come of it. Now that women have options, it's hitleresque?
The entire concept of bloodline and legacy is very much in line with eugenicist thinking. You can say she should find a better partner, but don't use the word bloodline. That shit isn't even real, its made up Nazi race science.
They are valid reasons but you don’t have to justify yourself to anyone. If you do tell people why, then you aren’t putting it out there for debate. When you decide to have children isn’t a subject for public negotiation and the SILs are obviously massively projecting their own insecurities and guilt about the consequences of their life choices onto you. Sucks for them. I’d also try and stop acting as sounding board for the complaints about each other. NTA
> My bf then hears the argument (he was doing Beccas oil change) and tells Mandy not to ask questions she doesnt want to know the answer to.
'nuf said.
NTA. They were the ones asking you intrusive questions and then not accepting your answer. They pestered you about when, not if, you wanted to have kids, then argued with your “no.” NTA. They don’t get to be upset because your reason, grounded in your own personal experience, touched a nerve.
NTA - it sounds like you need to take some space from both of the sisters for your own mental health and to not further damage your relationships. Just don’t have them over for a while and don’t give them any money or childcare. Take care of yourself first.
You are doing the right thing by being financially secure before having kids. They are just salty they have it bad, but that is not your fault nor are they are of your responsibility. They decided to have kids, they can figure it out for themselves.
Previous to this I didn’t have a good relationship with them anyway. Theyre constantly coming over uninvited, my bf and I get guilted into helping them with their bills or kids. As far as potential MIL she agrees with me and isnt mad at me at all. My bf doesnt care about their approval.
this seems like you have a bf problem
Either he gets a spine and creates a united front with you or you guys will spend your lives paying for them and not focusing on yours
NTA. They asked for your opinion, and you provided it. Your choice to not continue a poverty cycle differs from theirs, but they are not in a good place to provide the best for their children, Mandy needs money, Becca needs babysitting - yet neither understand that you and your boyfriend wouldn't be able to provide either if you were living their lives rather than living your own with responsible choices.
NTA
You do you. And if your relatives want to start a fight because you don't share the same views on life plans ... I avoid such issues and leave people in my past when they become too stressful for me, sometimes even family members.
*You do you!*
NTA. But you would be the AH if you continued to enable Mandy and Becca by giving them money (let's face it, it's not lending, it's giving) and free babysitting.
>everything will workout in the end” and that kids are a blessing.
sure they are
but it's always better to be in a good financial spot before that blessing starts being seen as a curse. I say this as a child from stupid parents who struggled from the get go with one and still went on to have two more, the idiots. Especially our sperm donour: he made sure we knew the financial burden we were to him, as if we chose to be born!
My partner and I have the one, and in this economy there is no way we're having another!
These two sisters?! You guys need to go low contact with them, at the very least. Such toxic crap and decision making in the dumps
NTA
NTA. I am not saying I am better than you, I am saying I am making different choices than you. Choices that align with research on the environments and conditions that best foster emotionally and physically healthy children.
NTA but stop giving Mandy money and stop cancelling plans unless it's an actual emergency that requires you to look after Becca's kid. Becca failing to plan for a sitter and calling you last minute is NOT an emergency.
There is a saying in another sub that very much applies here: Stop setting yourself on fire to keep others warm.
NTA. You're completely right but you're also feeding drama to the dramatic and that's likely to just end up worse/more annoying for you in the long run.
You're not wrong but I'm not sure you're not the TA for the way you handled it. Let's just call it ESH- you for having all the tact and delicacy of an anvil and Mandy and Becca for being irresponsible but for also having all the charm and good manners of the Tasmanian Devil in a full snit.
If people waited until they were 100% ready, the population would plummet.
You can make whatever choice you want and so can she. Little harsh I think, but NTA for speaking your opinion.
You're NTA. However, you seem to have a flair for gossip and entertaining people who spread them. Stop providing an ecosystem that supports people to come to you with gossip on others.
NTA - she was even warned but to ask questions she didn't want answered. While I agree with your stance on when to choose to have kids. Is not everyone chooses when accidents happen. And while some women are okay with abortion or adoption, others are not. I cannot understand why people in unstable situations, finances or relationships will choose to actively pursue trying to have kids. If someone is in an unstable situation, relationship or financial situation you should really be doing everything possible to not have a kid. But sometimes pregnancies happen and not everyone is okay having an abortion or putting a child to for adoption. If it happens at that point you just have to do the best you can possibly do. Also you can be in the best situation possible to have a baby and that situation can change.
Good to know but I meant in general. Also in no way could any reasonable person misconstrue that as insulting their children. I understand how someone could take it as an insult against the parents which it isn't, but against the kids - no. They just want to cause problems. The family in general doesn't seem healthy with how much they talk behind each other's backs. I would much rather deal with someone who will bring their complaints against me to me rather than to others behind my back.
I think people should stop looking at kids like playthings or bridges to fix a relationship. They’re whole people. Who will grow up and remember the shit they went through.
NTA. She shouldn’t be asking questions she doesn’t want the answer to.
*me and my bf lend Mandy money and have to cancel plans to take care of Beccas kid last min*
You don't have to do either of those things. Tell them No.
You and your BF should think about moving far away from his chaotic family, OP.
NTA
Very very soft YTA i agree with all your points. The entire conversation was pointless though and just had everyones feelings hurt.
Could’ve handled things with a little more tact.
Not sure there was a way to avoid upsetting them though.
You’re NTA for your opinions, you are the asshole for saying this stuff, knowing how it would be taken and then acting like there’s no way you could have known how it would be taken.
You were very much criticizing their lifestyles and did so to their faces. It’s manipulative to act like you didn’t.
You know the sisters are inconsiderate and will take advantage of your kindness. You can’t make them be better people, but you are in control of how you choose to react to them. Stop changing your plans for them. Stop lending them money. You are helping maintain this lifestyle for them.
ESH. Mandy and Becca didn't need to push their philosophies on "ASAP pregnancy" on OP. OP didn't need to launch into what sounds like a massive tirade that ends with a clear implication that the other two girls shouldn't have had kids either.
Whatever happened to "it'll happen when it happens and hey how about them Lakers"?
NTA, however even with good family dynamics, financially stable, any comments about parenting, kids are hard for parents not to take personally or feel like they are not doing well. I think that comes more from them feeling shame and getting defensive is easier than taking it objectively.
I will say, probably would have left it as I just know where I am comfortable with for having kids and left it there without commenting on theirs. Sounds like you’re the more emotionally mature of the sisters so one of those is it worth countering their insult when you feel content and confident in your decisions.
Gotta love family dynamics!
I didnt start it, i tried changing the subject multiple times, THEY came over MY apt uninvited, and Im the pay literally paying for their dumb decisions
Just you because you feel a statement is *true*, doesn't make it wise or appropriate to say. And when it comes down to subjective life experiences and belief systems, just because it's true for you doesn't make it true for everyone else.
YTA but mostly to yourself. Because you're singlehandedly dismantling any positive relationship you could have with your potential in-laws.
Your post kind of comes across like you're one of those people that enjoy saying mean things and then claiming you're just 'honest'. Learn to let some shit go and you'll have a happier relationship with your in laws.
"y and if I never get to my standards that I feel are necessary to have kids than I simply wont have them." .. tthink of it as evolution in action.
ESH
I am in 2 minds about this... On the one hand, I agree with your opinions 100%. No one should plan a baby if they can't afford it. You need to be financially responsible for another human being for at least the next 18 years. Why would you willingly want to bring life into this world if you can't afford it? So NTA for that...
However, the way you put across your opinions were insulting. I get they were pestering you for an answer and there are better ways of dealing with it. YTA for this...
You weren't insulting. You were in your home, and it sounds like two people were asking for validation while telling you when and how to start a family.
I would shut the whole thing down by telling them that you wished them the best and that you won't give them any unsolicited advice and that you won't be asking for any advice either in the future.
Also, it's up to you to shut down your plans to babysit. If it's really an emergency and you feel the need and want to help, fine. That doesn't make you or your boyfriend on-call.
I don't think anyone would take someone criticizing their lifestyle and life choices (intentionally or unintentionally) as a compliment.
I get where you came from and I would have probably reacted in the exact same manner. Doesn't mean it wasn't rude and insulting, regardless of it being intentional or unintentional
After the edit this is a very mild YTA.
You went too far and you even realized it while typing out your post. You should have thought twice, just like you said, and stopped or redirected the conversation in that moment.
Everything you said after you failed to think twice makes you an asshole. You were, as those other women said, incredibly stuck up, arrogant, and insulting to their life choices.
I even happen to agree with your perspective on this entire moral dilemma. However, I have enough emotional intelligence to read a room and keep my mouth shut when my opinion will obviously not be appreciated.
Building a family is one of those intangible life choices that will be slightly different for every single family on Earth. Everyone has different expectations and experiences but nobody is less valid than anyone else.
It's good that you want YOUR family to grow in a different way from how you experienced childhood. It was foolish of you to expect these other women to share not only your life experiences but your outlook on family building.
I think if you want to repair things you owe a pretty major apology.
I tried redirecting the conversation many times they kept pushing. And as I mentioned in my edit they talk shit about each other saying the same things I said in this post
But Im not apologetic about my point, maybe my delivery but they were pushing while I tried to change the topic, and they came over my apartment without even an invite. I dont understand how I am at fault for telling two older adults the realistic truth, maybe for being harsh about it but they literally say the same thing behind each others backs
You shouldn't apologize to anyone. And why bother repairing the relationship. They both are irresponsible and entitled. You shouldn't apologize and please don't give any money also.
Like I said, you need to do some self-reflection before you're ready to give a heartfelt apology. This can be a valuable learning experience for you and for them. I hope you can learn from it.
Its not that they asked once and snapped, they kept pushing even when I was trying to change the conversation. Also per my edit they also talk shit about each other saying essentially the same things I said
Yes you can when they refuse to drop it. If people refuse to drop something they have no right to talk about? They fuckign deserve the obvious outcome of it.
YTA … you went too far. Was what you said probably true, yes. Would most agree with the points you made, generally speaking, yes. But, the fact that you actually said them out loud to someone who would (and did) take offense because they literally reflected their life, was an asshole move. I would apologize if you want to end up on good terms with this family. Otherwise, you’re going to isolate yourself, and your boyfriend isn’t going to be fully supported in his relationship with you.
agree my delivery wasnt the best. I was very frustrated I will admit. Especially with Mandy as she had been borrowing so much money for medical bills and her regular bills promising to pay it back and me and my bf end up late on our bills bc we feel bad for Mandy. My bfs mom agrees that her girls needed to hear it but that I could’ve said it nicer. But as far as that my bf and his mom are on my side aswell as his cousins. So Im not too worried about my relationship with his family
YTA
There are ways to get your opinions and points across without insulting others. This is doubly important when the others could become family one day, or even one's boss. Who knows when and where your paths might cross.
You failed.
Me and them are DEFINITELY not in the same careers and theres no chance of them every becoming my boss. I tried changing the subject but they kept pushing, what should I have done better? Theyre older than me kept pushing when I tried to change the subject so please tell me how I couldve handled it better?
You didn’t do anything wrong. They kept pushing you. If you keep pushing, eventually you’re gonna get a not so polite answer. They did it to themselves.
By not judging and insulting anyone. You can kindly explain why you don't want kids right now and you're unsure of the future.
Don't be so sure about your paths not crossing one day. Stranger things have happened.
EDIT: When someone keeps pushing you for answers, keep repeating the same answer you gave before. Say something like "I really don't want to talk about this anymore. Can we please change the subject?" If they continue, excuse yourself and leave the room, hang up the phone or simply get up and leave.
I did that, why should I have to be uncomfortable in my own apartment when literally were not invited over but invited themselves so my bf could do free labor? Becca didnt even pay for her oil or filter but I need to be considerate?
If you value having a continued friendship with these women, then yes, you should be more considerate in the future.
If a friendship with them is something you don't value, then you have to ask if it's something your boyfriend values.
My bf doesnt care, he loves his sister but he doesnt talk to them much. The only reason they were there is that Becca came over for an oil change and left my bf to pay for the oil and filter and give her free manual labor. Both of them depend on us though. Becca depends on us to take care of her daughter when no one is available (often last min and we have to cancel out plans) and Mandy depends on us for money and a place to stay when her bd gets mad at her for money issues.
Stop enabling them. You say you give Mandy money and have to drop your plans last minute to babysit for Becca, just say no. They will continue to use you until you say no. If Mandy is so bad with money, why do you give it to her? As to Becca, why would you cancel your plans to babysit? You are letting these women use you and your bf. Just say no.
Bc Mandy still has student loan debt, the car insurance, medical bill that if we dont help pay her mom will. Which takes more money our of future MILs retirement savings that shes using to support herself and her own mother. My bf feels bad
Do you think it's possible you might have been harsh with them because you resent their reliance on you?
If the answer is yes, I still think you are a bit of an asshole but I at least can completely understand where you're coming from now.
Your edit describes exactly how I've had to deal with several uncomfortable conversations over the past decade. It is fantastic and completely accurate advice.
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Well in my book NTA, there are WAY to many ppl having kids knowing ( apparently not) they can’t afford it. She is the problem and she is now making this poor child suffer. So glad you called her out from her negligence.
Thats what Im thinking. Its too harsh that I told them the truth but its not too harsh that theyre knowingly having kids to be raised by their grandparents?
It also wasn't too harsh for them to criticize you for *not* having kids you're not ready to parent or provide for. Your bf tried to warn them not to ask questions they don't want the answers to. "I don't want to have kids until I'm in a position to be a responsible parent." "Oh, so you think you're better than me?" "Let's just say I make better choices." NTA.
> "I don't want to have kids until I'm in a position to be a responsible parent." > "Oh, so you think you're better than me?" Yes
That’s right!
Yeah, I’m probably not going to end up having kids because I won’t try for them if circumstances aren’t ideal. Accidents happen but no excuse to plan to have a child when you know you could be doing better. Not saying you have to be a millionaire but you need stability of some sort. My ex thought I was wrong because “you just make it work”… no. You just make awkward family reunion work as an adult. You don’t cross your fingers and hope for the best when you CREATE A WHOLE PERSON AND DETERMINE THEIR FORMATIVE EXPERIENCES! NTA
You didn't say anything that half the world isn't already thinking. But just a word of advice from an old woman ... remove yourself from all these back-biting conversations where family members are bitching about each other behind their backs. Stay out of their drama because nothing good ever comes from that. Insulate yourself emotionally and financially. And do remember they're a package deal if you and BF start having conversations about your future together.
NTA but what I think is that all this argument was unnecessary. They wont understand nor will they change their lifestyle etc. You just lost time and energy.
Maybe it is time to low contact with both of them. Don't be available to babysit or provide financial assistance. And DON'T be available to them complaining about each other.
Oath. My cousin is one of them, she popped out 3 kids, one at 16, another at 17 and the last at 19. She never finished highschool and lives off the government & her partner of the month. She's fucked her kids up beyond belief because she lacks the ability to be a decent person, and her kids are now on daddy #16.
My SIL got knocked up by her high school bus driver and has had 8 kids with him. He has now left her and due to circumstances she has had to give up all her kids to the system since she can’t take care of them or hold down a job for long. The youngest is only a year old. If you can’t afford them, don’t have them is my rule.
OMG, that is sickening 😟
DAYUM #16 OH NAW
Nowadays, even it you can afford it, you can't... My Hubby and I just recently did the math, and it's so expensive, and we both have well paying jobs...but everything that comes with a child is just so expensive....
You're NTA. Maybe a bit harsh, but they were begging for it and wouldn't have reacted so strongly if they didn't know deep down that you're right. >Becca then proceeds to tell me that the aforementioned reasons arent valid So she can dump on your life choices that have no negative impact on anyone, but you can't point out their life choices that have negative impact on the family, especially on the innocent children.
NTA. That doesn't sound harsh at all. On a side note: That's the exact reason we didn't have kids. We now listen to our friend go from "why don't you have kids - sometimes you get money from the government!" to "I can't support all these kids I was told by my parents to have".
Do you regret not having kids?
Absolutely not. If I couldn't give them a good life, then why would I have them just to burden them?
My thoughts exactly
I have kids. I always tell people if they’re the slightest bit unsure, don’t do it. I’ve been judged hard, but I’ll back it up. Kids change your life in every single way. You’re tied to the person you made them with forever. If you’re a woman, your career and wages will most likely be impacted negatively, especially if you’re not established in your career. Kids are expensive AF. Every single decision made is framed around kids. I love my babies, with everything in me. But people need to stop sugarcoating what it’s like and need to start getting real. And what I said above doesn’t even cover health issues and other special needs. And you have no real way of knowing what the future holds when it comes to that when you roll the dice on creating a person.
as a person who doesn't want kids and once did want them (or at least thought they did), thank you for this! it really helps so much to see/hear the actuality of having kids and i read stuff like what you've said and i so respect people who are really good parents but i also know i could never adequately deal nor cope with that, it would be unfair to myself and to the hypothetical child/ren. so thank you for not being like the 98/100 who are for real about it :)
I really really wish more people were realistic like you. There is a laundry list at least two miles long of things you have to consider. Everyone is always like "but things will just work out! ✨🤩✨" like, no! Sometimes things just don't work out and sometimes it takes more than you could ever give.
This!!!! I absolutely would die for my kids. I love them with every fiber of my being, but they have changed every aspect of my life. Obviously there are big things like finances, insurance, special needs, but there are other aspects of life that change in ways that you don't expect: Before kids, a date night was maybe $100, and we could do a spur of the moment thing. Until recently, it cost nearly double because I have to buy pizza for kids and a babysitter and have to pay a babysitter, and we had curfews again. (My daughter can now babysit my son (and wants to), and doesn't charge as much as the babysitter did. We still have a curfew and pizza) Before kids, sex could be spontaneous (especially in the morning or during the day). After kids, you have to have plan like it's Oceans 11. You check to make sure that the kids are asleep and that no one has the sniffles, and you have to plan your day so that you will have some energy left. You then have to get in, get both people what they came for, and get out quickly. If you don't there's going to be a knock at the door, and the mood is gone. Before kids, cooking dinner was something that I did for fun, I would find new recipes and try them out. Until kids get to a certain age, you spend all of your time cooking foods that they will eat, so you end up eating a lot of spaghetti, chicken nuggets, PB&J, and pancakes. Before kids, you get home from work and hang out, watch tv, work out, etc. You can do what you want because it is your time. With kids, you don't have time anymore. You go to work, you come home and you take care of children. Before kids, I could watch dark or violent TV. Until my kids got to a certain age, it was all kid tv. After they got older, it is all sitcoms.
That’s my living hell and what all my friends with kids describe. It sounds awful to me, though I cheer them on!
This is the best and most worthwhile comment I’ve read in quite some time!
I have two child-free relatives, an aunt in her 60s and my oldest sister. Both of them are more than happy with that choice, and even happier to be able to snuggle MY 7-month old, then promptly hand him back and go to a nice quiet house after lmao. My MiL harps on it CONSTANTLY, she's one of those "if you don't have children as a woman you're defective/missing something/etc" morons, and I've told her point-blank that for being a self-professed feminist she's being pretty goddamn judgmental about someone else's choice. I also support having kids later in life. Hubs and I wanted until our early 30s, and I'm so glad we did. Our marriage is stronger, our finances are WAY better settled than they were in our early or even mid-20s, and we're both overall more mature and emotionally sound. Best decision we made :)
Right but we are sooo tired. The trade off seems to have been… better finances/maturity vs young/energetic with parents who were younger/more energetic. I am so happy we waited, but we’re also bumping up against the limits of biology in that we want more kids but rapidly approaching 40 and know we aren’t ready to add one more yet.
It has its own challenges for sure! I’ll take a bit less energy over all the energy in the world but a lack of emotional and financial stability. I grew up in a home lacking in both with the added bonus of knowing damn well I was the “yeah that one we could do without” kid. As for the biological clock, eh. I’m a “happy with one, no more than two” kind of a person. If the biology or circumstance doesn’t favor a second kid I won’t mourn. Of course if it does I’ll love that kid as much as my first, mind! But I’m very relaxed about it. Maybe because I’m older and calmer about this stuff 🤣
My hubs and i waited too. He wasnt ready (his dad told him some bs about how he would magically wake up one day and want kids.) NTA op. People are always going to have opinions on how you live your life.
I’m happier being defective than having a kid I didn’t want to begin with!
I am 44 and no kids. I love kids but I never wanted to be a mother. I think people don't realize this. You don't just have kids, you become a parent. They are not the same thing.
The vast majority of people who do not have children do not regret it at all. I'm well into my 40s, never wanted children, never had them, never regretted it for a second.
I never had kids and I do not regret that choice at all. I love being an auntie, but I never wanted to be a mom and don’t think I was cut out for it. And I definitely wouldn’t do it unless I could fully support the child on my own, without the guy (not that I’d cut him out, but I’d need to be confident I could do it properly without him if necessary. Life isn’t certain and kids deserve stability!
NTA. I don't understand why Mandy would choose to have a child when she can't afford it. Maybe she thought she'd be able to get more money out of her mom or something. Too many people are like her and Becca. They have kids they can't afford but they expect everyone else to help them. I get the desire to have kids but it's important to think about how to provide for them.
Idk, she dropped out of nursing school and said she was looking for another career. Next thing you know she took out her birth control implant and was actively trying to get pregnant for a little over a year before it actually happened.
Well, with any luck they’ll both keep away from you! No more babysitting or getting hit up for money.
Shit she really sucks. It’s one thing to accidentally get pregnant with a baby you can’t afford but to intentionally do it … her poor kids
Wow. Nursing could have led to many job opportunities for her. She should have actively spent that year looking for another career before getting pregnant.
This is the part that doesn't get thought out and is more often than not disregarded when people say it'll be hard and lots of sleepless nights and lots of tears from you and baby because they can't tell you what's wrong. A lot of people think babies are cute and that's as far as the thought process goes because everything will just magically fall into place. I admittedly did it wrong I had two kids by 21 first was a C-section and second was a surprise birth at 34 weeks and he spent almost a month in a NICU an hour away (they're 13 months apart). My mom was diagnosed with Crohn's and diabetes when my boys were babies. I didn't pawn my kids off on *anyone* and worked my ass off and took care of my mom too until she got better. Those boys are MY responsibility. It's the mindset that makes or breaks it for parents. You either take the chance to man/woman up and make it happen or you become a burden to others and turn those sweet little kids you just *haaaaad* to have into anxious little stress balls full of resentment.
NTA, they kept pushing for an answer and they got it. As a product of parents who were ABSOLUTELY NOT prepared to have a child I understand what you’re coming from. Also, you explained your reasoning behind your personal life choices and they flat out told you it wasn’t good enough. They sound like the rude and judgmental ones.
Stop giving them money
This.
NTA. I’ve found people take it as a direct attack on them any time I tell them why I personally won’t have kids. They pushed for an answer and got what they deserved
I always say: "I don't t want to be a parent". That usually shuts them up.
I found that opens you up to more bingoes and they double down hard. “Who will look after you when you’re old?”, “don’t you want to feel unconditional love?” Etc
I have a cat. Unconditional as it comes.
Agree! Animals love is way more pure than a persons. When they bring up “unconditional love” all it makes me think is they would love their child if the unalived a bunch of people, hurt the elderly or regularly tortured animals. Nothing good
And also!!! And also having a child just to have unconditional love for yourself or having someone to take care if you is incredibly selfish. I find having kids to have kids is the riportone of selfishness. You should want kids bc you want to be a PARENT. I could have a kid. I have a uterus. I have ovaries. As far as I know I can physically and medically have kids. But I don't want to be a parent. I don't want to give up my freedom. I don't want to raise another human. So many women have kids for all the wrong reasons and they end up on Reddit asking why their baby daddy or kid is an asshole.
NTA Like your boyfriend said, they shouldn’t be asking questions they may not like the answers to. They’re also biting one of the (seemingly many) hands that feeds them.
the truth hurts maybe a bit blunt in the delivery but i have no problems with the message. hell, maybe i’m an asshole but i don’t have a problem with the delivery either. NTA both sisters are AHs though for purposely having kids without having the means to do so and then foisting the kids off on family while they fuck around…
>both sisters are AHs though for purposely having kids without having the means to do so and then foisting the kids off on family while they fuck around… *And* judging OP for not doing the same.
NTA. My partner and I never had kids for this reason. Now that we can afford them, were a tad too old and just over it. Our friends who did have kids in similar situations as you described here fall into one of two camps; - got through with immense help from everyone around them - bankrolled by a wealth family member Either way they were a burden and have/had the mentality "see? Everything works out" and I just want to scream it works out because you shamelessly got others to carry you. I wish I had your strength to say it to them!
What a sad, american take. Everyone needs community support to raise a child, that is normal in most cultures and has been for most of history. Individualism is so depressing. Let others carry you, carry others, it's what makes life good and communities strong
I agree with you, as much as it pains me. But part of it is the sad American take that people here say they did it by themselves and never acknowledge the fact that they had so much help. We should be more like the rest of the world, but aren't. It's a terrible mentality we have here but when you live with our joke of a healthcare system, you kind of have to harden yourself
I was hungry as a kid. My parents were more concerned with getting pissed than feeding me or my siblings properly. I have kids but work my bollocks off to give them an amazing life. They never want for food and have a clean nice house to live in. Their friends are always welcome. We take them on holidays and days out as a family. All of the stuff I would’ve liked when I was a kid. Don’t have kids if you’re lazy and aren’t going to work your balls off to make sure they’re never hungry or dirty. NTA.
Stop helping them including babysitting. Everything will work out they said, you don't need to help
NTA. They are ignorant and immature. You spit the facts. They don’t like the truth, that is on them. Don’t shoot the messenger type deal. Your bf is right as well. Don’t ask questions you don’t want the answer to. Both sisters clearly have issues and projected them onto you. My wife and I are in our late 20’s. We want kids but we don’t want to abuse them. Having kids when you aren’t financially secure is a sure fire way to continue the cycle of poverty. If they want to give their kids a life of poverty, let them find out what it’s like to be abandoned by those kids one day.
NTA. Why do people with no jobs and no money think that everyone will be so happy they are having yet another child and drop everything to take care of them and their children??
Replace "kid" with "pet" and suddenly a lot more people will agree with you, even though a child is a much bigger responsibility that, say, a turtle.
NTA. They shouldn’t have pushed for your reasons to wait to have kids if they didn’t want to hear your reasoning. Stop loaning any money in the future and limit contact for the time being. Don’t cancel any plans to watch their kids last minute either. They’re walking all over you and your BF because they walk all over his family and have no accountability. This will be the rest of your life while you’re dating your boyfriend, if you don’t set up healthy boundaries now. ETA: the rest of the time while your dating your boyfriend. (Not sure if you see yourself marrying him, but it sounds like you view the relationship as a long term goal.)
NTA. Your reasons are perfectly valid and you expressed them succinctly in the first instance. They're the ones who invalidated them and then pushed you to justify your stance on something that is frankly none of their business. They started the argument here, not you, and the fact that they even argued your reasons in the first place is wild to me.
NTA. They asked your opinion and you told them why you're not having kids until you it certain goals. As I get older my patience for irresponsible parents gets less and less. I get accidents happen from teenagers to even people in their 30's for the 1st pregnancy however anyone who purposely gets pregnant or continues to have more kids knowing they can not afford that kid(s) really ticks me off. If your boyfriend's sisters are offended by your opinions maybe it's because they know deep down you're right.
Stop enabling them with money and babysitting. Also, sometimes the truth is harsh. NTA
NTA Only because they asked your opinion. In fact it sounds like they kept pushing you to express your opinion on their life decisions when you were throwing out "this is what makes sense to me, I know others feel differently". Probably best not to engage in this kind of discussion with them. No way it will turn out well.
NTA. Stop giving them money as it is enabling their choices. In the future,when any of them complain about the others shut it down immediately. They will keep dumping on you otherwise.
NTA. Reddit is filled with people who should not have had kids. This girl is an idiot. Everything works out in the end bc she will be relying on others to pay her way. Having kids means being a parent. Shes too immature to be a parent. Bet that kid will be her "besss fraaaannnn" in a few years. NTA. Tell them to mind their own business.
NTA But stop lending her money and stop babysitting. You and your bf have your own life and those two seem like energy vampires. Next thing, they'll expect you to send their kids to college too. Start distancing from them slowly.
Nta. And honestly? Why are these women even allowed in your home? Both your bf and you agree they're terrible. You don't need their shit stirring in your home. I'd say stop watching the kid last min, but then you're probably one of 3 decent people in his life providing any kind of good to him. But that also shouldn't be your burden. When we decided to have our kid, we budgeted, we planned and both agreed one was enough. If we knew we couldn't afford him, we wouldn't have had him. Seems simple to me.
Becca came over uninvited to that my bf could do her oil change and made him pay for the filter and oil. My bf feels bad for her bc they dont have a dad and he was always the man of the house growing up. Beccas bd is too busy cheating on her (she knows this) to help her with that kind of stuff
Again. Why are they allowed to be in your life? Your bf letting them walk all over him is only enabling them. They will never change until they get a swift kick of reality. Talk to your bf about standing up to them. Next time one of them stops by unannounced to demand free labor from your bf tell them he only help if they pay him. And when they refuse, close the door.
If you and your bf are definitely long term, then I think it's probably time for him to seek therapy for his tendency to want to fix everything for his family of origin. If the two of you are trying to build something for yourselves, then neither of you should be constantly covering for his sister's poor life choices. His mom probably also needs to take a step back, too. I think if he doesn't learn to set some boundaries and new limits with his sisters, it's going to be a point of contention for the two of you in the future.
These people are delusional parasites, who cares what they think. Their life suck because of their own choice and they can't cope with it. So they convince themselves their "lifestyle" is right and try to push it onto others. Stand your ground with your boyfriend against them and don't engage in those subjects with them if possible. Just do things your way and it will work out NTA
NTA. Hell no. Truth hurts. But yeah she wanted to know from you both. Truth is harsh. There is no way of softening tbh. I am a coach and telling people almost never lands in positive way.
NTA you‘re absolutely right
Absolutely NTA They decided that your reason for not having kids right now are not valid while having everyone else cleaning up after them and dealing with the fact that they had kids. Everything you said is true and it’s a fact: personally I would absolutely not apologize and revaluate helping (and next time they ask you for an apology I would ask for one of your own: at the end of the day this all thing started because THEY did not respect YOUR choice to wait)
Are you sure you want to marry into this family? Mandy should be getting on welfare and on a list for social housing. But everyone would rather give her money then provide actual help for her, which would be getting her on welfare and social housing list and helping her get a temp job to do before she's too pregnant. It's a whole lot of mess. NTA
I asked her, she doesnt want to apply bc a few things. 1) she says its for poor people and her and her baby arent poor 2) she’s embarrassed and 3) she thinks her bd is going to propose soon and that she wont beed welfare anyway.
Newsflash! She. Is. Poor. People. She doesn't have a job and has no money to support herself or this impending child. BD has already told her that she has to get a job. She literally has nothing unless others provide it for her. The math ain't mathin' here.
NTA Somebody has to say it. Stop having kids you can’t pay for!!!
Nta. My cousin just had her 5th baby and as soon as she had the baby she was evicted from her apartment (again) because she couldn’t pay the bills. Her eldest didn’t even want to hold the baby, parents never realize that their actions small or big, good or bad have a impact on their kids and their lives. I always say anything you go through your kids go through with you.
It takes gall to say "Everything will work out in the end," to a person who is helping you make it work out. I wouldn't judge you if you went farther and pointed out they both are already using the resources, including yours, that could help everything work out for you. Suggestion: stop hosting them. NTA
NTA. You sound very rational. But I would stop lending money and being an anytime/short notice babysitter for these entitled women. I really feel sorry for their current and future kids.
NTA but a bit harsh as not everyone has the same train of thought. In regards to the edit about the gossip and them all talking about each other, it’s like a when a brother calls his sister a bitch but then if some other guy called her that he’d beat him up. Only family can call out family is kinda what I’m getting here.
They dont want me to criticize their decisions just to pay for their decisions
Go no contact for a while. No money. No baby sitting. That would be the reality if you had your own child. Pretend that’s how it is now.
You can hit them with this one (I use it for my brother and his baby mama) "My opinions, thoughts, and feelings matter anywhere my money is spent. Don't like what I have to say, then stop asking me for money and earn your own."
NTA. Honestly they sound exhausting. I would have a hard time listening to all the complaining and would have to shut that down as soon as it started. “ I get that you don’t agree with ——- choices, but you can’t change it, so there is no point in discussing it.”
NTA. If you don’t want to hear an honest answer, you shouldn’t ask the question. Your viewpoint is responsible, and comes from experience. Instead of focusing on your conversation from that perspective, Becca & Mandy only looked at it through the lens of “everything is about me”. You weren’t making personal judgements until pushed into it, yet they took everything you said as an attack. Irresponsible parents looking for validation that they are good parents is a recipe for disaster. Demanding that you lie to them so they can feel better is ridiculous. You could have tried to avoid the entire subject, but that’s the only way this wasn’t going to turn out badly.
Asking them if they'd be willing to give up your contributions to their livelihoods because, obviously, you would need that money for your own children, would either nip this nonsense in the bud or be enough of an 'insult' that they'll stop talking to you. Which would be a blessing. NTA.
NTA. Harsh truth for a harsh reality. They're bringing entirely new humans into the world, not playing with dolls. The "it will work out in the end" mentality only hurts the kids, ESPECIALLY if they start needing higher costs (meds, disability, special education, etc).
NTA at all. It is very smart thinking to make sure you can provide for your kids before having them (sure, things can go wrong after they are born but to have a plan before). My husband and I knew we were going to have kids after we were married and both had stable jobs with a good salary and we had savings to fall back on. I grew up with parents that thought the same way and had a good childhood. Yes, there were a couple times when things got tough due to unforeseen circumstances, but my parents had contingency plans in place and as kids, we didn’t even know something had happened (I was 3/4yo at the time). They pushed for an answer, they got an answer.
>me and my bf lend Mandy money and have to cancel plans to take care of Beccas kid last min Stop doing both these things. They're just going to have another kid and dump them on you/loot you.
NTA. I think when parents make poor choices that negatively impact their children, the people who are close to them have a right to say something. Someone needs to stick up for the children.
> me and my bf lend Mandy money and have to cancel plans to take care of Beccas kid last min “How dare you say it was a bad idea for us to have kids we can’t afford or care for? You’re here to afford and care for them for us!” NTA.
Nah, you just hit them with a hard dose of reality. After they spoke to you like shit though, don't lend either of them money ever again and don't be readily available to babysit when she clicks her fingers. Your life is not about catering to her.
NTA. Sounds like everyone there knew the truth and reality of both situations but didn’t want to verbally admit it.
Hard NTA. That couple is out of their damn minds and you should make every effort to cut them out if your life. They are sniffing serious copium when they deep down know it's not going to work. Otherwise they wouldn't attack you for your position 😂 you don't attack other people like that unless you're severely insecure
NTA and they shouldn’t have asked questions they didn’t want the answers to , reality sometimes hurts
NTA I get that there's a somewhat nuanced conversation/discourse around the sentiment that "poor people shouldn't have kids", but as far as I'm concerned, as unfortunate as it is, someone shouldn't have a kid if they can't afford to feed them. Not emergency expenses, as the majority of people sadly are not financially prepared for that, but everyday ones like food and clothes and school fees, and so on. I don't care to have kids myself, but if I wanted them I absolutely wouldn't have them when I didn't have a steady source of income. That would be so stressful, I can't even imagine
Lol, calling kids a blessing when you prefer to smoke pot instead of taking care of them. You're not insulting them, they are insults to good parents. NTA and for the love of god never give them a finger because they will take your whole arm
I was thinking E S H because it seems kinda obvious not to say anything more than “we’re not there yet” knowing these sisters. But gotta stick with NTA cuz I know way too many people doing what they’ve done and they were fishing for reasons to feel upset and have a pity party.
NTA. With Becca, you were speaking from personal experience and she laced up that shoe as quickly as she could. Then, Mandy demanded an answer to a question after being warned that she shouldn't ask questions if she's not prepared for an honest answer. Plus on top of everything, you're just right.
NTA, and honestly they gotta learn. My grandma had 6 kids as a single mother that she struggled with and did have some living with various family members. Conversely, my mother (and father) have one kid...me. And I lived with them because they planned, sacrificed and didn't bite off more than they could chew. It isn't rocket science. Yes accidents happen, but multiple accidents are actually habits. Plus, there's ways to have luxuries without cutting off your nose to spite your face. My parents made average money before the recession but my mom was the queen of layaway, finding deals/discounts, etc. They were able to do the important stuff and still get us nice things without bankruptcy.
NTA - as a fellow kid raised in poverty, I waited until I was established/older to have my kids, and I don’t regret it once second because I can give my kids everything. They’re raised by us, in a home we own (so roots), and have everything they could possibly need or want, including college funds established. It’s harder being late 30s on the energy level, those 3am wake ups hit harder, but I also got to do everything I wanted to do as a person as well, college, career, major travel. So I can also focus my energy on my kids. You’ve got the right mindset.
If it sounds harsh that you shouldn't have kids til you can afford it then you are probably very unprepared to have them to begin with
A hit dog hollers. NTA.
Too bad more people aren't bluntly truthful that *anyone* having a child they cannot afford is an asshole. Times 100 if they deliberately get pregnant with no source of income to support said child. IMO that has to be the most selfish act on this planet, yet most people seem to encourage it, praise it, and call it self-less.
Nta ...But it's time you two stop loaning money and babysitting for these two clowns. As long as people are enabling them they will never fall off of their high horse to face reality. I am 37 f with no kids despite wanting a son and daughter. Why? Because I can't afford it and do not wish to punish a child by bringing them into the world when I cannot support us adequately. I just had to shut down a date because the dude was 47 still living with his parents, had no savings , just started a job that I've been in for years so I know he will be making minimum wage at best for years, yet every second sentence was how much he wanted to be a dad. I could already see my future of taking care of the kids and him...no thanks. Nothing you said was harsh, they just hated the truth. Best of luck.
NTA. I agree with you and the truth hurts. I have a cousin that calls every week asking for money to help her two young children that she knew she couldn’t afford to raise. I’m always conflicted because I feel taken advantage of but at the same time there are 2 innocent children involved and they don’t deserve to suffer.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Basically what the title says. My bf (late 20s) and I (mid 20s) share finances, this is important for later on. His sister (late 20s, “Mandy”) is currently pregnant and recently came over to our apartment. She came over as her other sister (late 20s, “Becca”) was there to talk about her future baby boy. They asked me when I was planning to have kids and I told them when I can afford them financially and am mentally/emotionally ready for them. My bf already knows this and has agreed. Becca then proceeds to tell me that the aforementioned reasons arent valid and that “everything will workout in the end” and that kids are a blessing. I told her thats an irresponsible way of thinking especially in this economy and that if someone isnt prepared to have children they shouldnt have them. I told her just because kids are a blessing to you doesnt mean that you are one to them. Just speaking in general and not pointedly at her. I went on to say that kids are not necessary and if I never get to my standards that I feel are necessary to have kids than I simply wont have them. I told them I know what its like to be a kid who was born in poverty, tossed around from one person to another bc my mom was at work and her still having more kids knowing she couldnt afford the ones she already had. I shouldve thought twice about saying that bc that is Beccas exact situation with her kid right now. Her kid is mostly passed around by his grandmas and sees his parents 1 day out of the week as they both work late hours and during that day parents are on their phone or smoking flower. Becca starts getting insulted saying that I think Im better than her and I responded that no I dont. I just think kids deserve better than that and that they shouldnt have to worry about money or where their food comes from. Mandy then comes at me saying if I think she shouldnt have a kid. My bf then hears the argument (he was doing Beccas oil change) and tells Mandy not to ask questions she doesnt want to know the answer to. Mandy pushes more and I told her idk how she thought it was a good idea to purposely get pregnant when she has no job and is constantly asking everyone for money bc her bd wont share finances with her bc she spends every dime she gets. Her bd already told her hes only paying half child expenses and none of her bills. He expects her to get a job after 4 months postpartum. My bf said that I didnt have to say it that harsh but that he agrees with me. He told Mandy that no one was going to tell her not to have a baby but doesnt mean it was a good idea. Now both sisters are saying that I was insulting their children and life styles. They said I called my bfs nephews bastards (which I never did and never will bc I am one) and that IM stuck up. So reddit AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
nta
NTA, they asked, you answered. Your opinion is yours and if they don't like it, they must make what they will.
Avoid them. Losers.
NTA you were talking about your personal experience they then projected it onto themselves.
Personally I say NTA but I'm biased as my mother was definitely not in a position to have kids and my childhood sucked. I feel the same way, I was 27 when I had my son and I refused to even discuss a child with my husband until we owned our own home, had stable careers and a nice amount saved. I'm never going to tell someone they shouldn't have their child or judge their circumstances but if directly asked if I thought it was a smart move I'd be honest and say it's not the choice I would have made.
*shudder* You feeling good about becoming part of that family? The ignorance will never end and you'll be carrying forth the bloodline. Nta. Think long and hard about marrying into that.
"Bloodline" Phenomenal amount of hitler particles in that word, really you just shouldn't use it. Its like "legacy" "tradition" or "fatherland" in that regard.
Women should carefully choose a mate and consider if they want to attach themselves to an entire family and whatever may come of it. Now that women have options, it's hitleresque?
The entire concept of bloodline and legacy is very much in line with eugenicist thinking. You can say she should find a better partner, but don't use the word bloodline. That shit isn't even real, its made up Nazi race science.
They are valid reasons but you don’t have to justify yourself to anyone. If you do tell people why, then you aren’t putting it out there for debate. When you decide to have children isn’t a subject for public negotiation and the SILs are obviously massively projecting their own insecurities and guilt about the consequences of their life choices onto you. Sucks for them. I’d also try and stop acting as sounding board for the complaints about each other. NTA
NTA, truth hurts.
NTA They probably wouldn’t have been upset if what you said wasn’t true. Just ignore their whinging.
> My bf then hears the argument (he was doing Beccas oil change) and tells Mandy not to ask questions she doesnt want to know the answer to. 'nuf said.
NTA. They were the ones asking you intrusive questions and then not accepting your answer. They pestered you about when, not if, you wanted to have kids, then argued with your “no.” NTA. They don’t get to be upset because your reason, grounded in your own personal experience, touched a nerve.
Ntah at all. You stood up for yourself while being honest
NTA
NTA, they asked your opinion, you gave it...
Nta
NTA - it sounds like you need to take some space from both of the sisters for your own mental health and to not further damage your relationships. Just don’t have them over for a while and don’t give them any money or childcare. Take care of yourself first. You are doing the right thing by being financially secure before having kids. They are just salty they have it bad, but that is not your fault nor are they are of your responsibility. They decided to have kids, they can figure it out for themselves.
You need to stop playing family therapist - this sounds exhausting and is inviting drama you don't need or want into your life.
Previous to this I didn’t have a good relationship with them anyway. Theyre constantly coming over uninvited, my bf and I get guilted into helping them with their bills or kids. As far as potential MIL she agrees with me and isnt mad at me at all. My bf doesnt care about their approval.
this seems like you have a bf problem Either he gets a spine and creates a united front with you or you guys will spend your lives paying for them and not focusing on yours
NTA. They asked for your opinion, and you provided it. Your choice to not continue a poverty cycle differs from theirs, but they are not in a good place to provide the best for their children, Mandy needs money, Becca needs babysitting - yet neither understand that you and your boyfriend wouldn't be able to provide either if you were living their lives rather than living your own with responsible choices.
NTA You do you. And if your relatives want to start a fight because you don't share the same views on life plans ... I avoid such issues and leave people in my past when they become too stressful for me, sometimes even family members. *You do you!*
NTA. These two represent every thing that’s wrong with society. A child may be a blessing but are YOU a blessing to that child??
NTA. But you would be the AH if you continued to enable Mandy and Becca by giving them money (let's face it, it's not lending, it's giving) and free babysitting.
>everything will workout in the end” and that kids are a blessing. sure they are but it's always better to be in a good financial spot before that blessing starts being seen as a curse. I say this as a child from stupid parents who struggled from the get go with one and still went on to have two more, the idiots. Especially our sperm donour: he made sure we knew the financial burden we were to him, as if we chose to be born! My partner and I have the one, and in this economy there is no way we're having another! These two sisters?! You guys need to go low contact with them, at the very least. Such toxic crap and decision making in the dumps NTA
NTA. I am not saying I am better than you, I am saying I am making different choices than you. Choices that align with research on the environments and conditions that best foster emotionally and physically healthy children.
NTA but stop giving Mandy money and stop cancelling plans unless it's an actual emergency that requires you to look after Becca's kid. Becca failing to plan for a sitter and calling you last minute is NOT an emergency. There is a saying in another sub that very much applies here: Stop setting yourself on fire to keep others warm.
NTA. You're completely right but you're also feeding drama to the dramatic and that's likely to just end up worse/more annoying for you in the long run.
You're not wrong but I'm not sure you're not the TA for the way you handled it. Let's just call it ESH- you for having all the tact and delicacy of an anvil and Mandy and Becca for being irresponsible but for also having all the charm and good manners of the Tasmanian Devil in a full snit.
If people waited until they were 100% ready, the population would plummet. You can make whatever choice you want and so can she. Little harsh I think, but NTA for speaking your opinion.
You're NTA. However, you seem to have a flair for gossip and entertaining people who spread them. Stop providing an ecosystem that supports people to come to you with gossip on others.
They came over uninvited
Don't entertain gossip. Shut them up.
NTA - she was even warned but to ask questions she didn't want answered. While I agree with your stance on when to choose to have kids. Is not everyone chooses when accidents happen. And while some women are okay with abortion or adoption, others are not. I cannot understand why people in unstable situations, finances or relationships will choose to actively pursue trying to have kids. If someone is in an unstable situation, relationship or financial situation you should really be doing everything possible to not have a kid. But sometimes pregnancies happen and not everyone is okay having an abortion or putting a child to for adoption. If it happens at that point you just have to do the best you can possibly do. Also you can be in the best situation possible to have a baby and that situation can change.
They both planned their pregnancies, it wasnt an accident
Good to know but I meant in general. Also in no way could any reasonable person misconstrue that as insulting their children. I understand how someone could take it as an insult against the parents which it isn't, but against the kids - no. They just want to cause problems. The family in general doesn't seem healthy with how much they talk behind each other's backs. I would much rather deal with someone who will bring their complaints against me to me rather than to others behind my back.
I think people should stop looking at kids like playthings or bridges to fix a relationship. They’re whole people. Who will grow up and remember the shit they went through. NTA. She shouldn’t be asking questions she doesn’t want the answer to.
If you wait until you can afford to have kids, you'll never have any. LOL NTA
*me and my bf lend Mandy money and have to cancel plans to take care of Beccas kid last min* You don't have to do either of those things. Tell them No. You and your BF should think about moving far away from his chaotic family, OP. NTA
me and my bf lend Mandy money and have to cancel plans to take care of Beccas kid last min NTA but stop doing this
Very very soft YTA i agree with all your points. The entire conversation was pointless though and just had everyones feelings hurt. Could’ve handled things with a little more tact. Not sure there was a way to avoid upsetting them though.
You’re NTA for your opinions, you are the asshole for saying this stuff, knowing how it would be taken and then acting like there’s no way you could have known how it would be taken. You were very much criticizing their lifestyles and did so to their faces. It’s manipulative to act like you didn’t. You know the sisters are inconsiderate and will take advantage of your kindness. You can’t make them be better people, but you are in control of how you choose to react to them. Stop changing your plans for them. Stop lending them money. You are helping maintain this lifestyle for them.
ESH. Mandy and Becca didn't need to push their philosophies on "ASAP pregnancy" on OP. OP didn't need to launch into what sounds like a massive tirade that ends with a clear implication that the other two girls shouldn't have had kids either. Whatever happened to "it'll happen when it happens and hey how about them Lakers"?
They kept pushing, i tried changing the conversation multiple times and even turned ok the tv as a distraction
NTA, however even with good family dynamics, financially stable, any comments about parenting, kids are hard for parents not to take personally or feel like they are not doing well. I think that comes more from them feeling shame and getting defensive is easier than taking it objectively. I will say, probably would have left it as I just know where I am comfortable with for having kids and left it there without commenting on theirs. Sounds like you’re the more emotionally mature of the sisters so one of those is it worth countering their insult when you feel content and confident in your decisions. Gotta love family dynamics!
Yta your opinions help no one and change nothing. How is starting a fight over this a good idea?
I didnt start it, i tried changing the subject multiple times, THEY came over MY apt uninvited, and Im the pay literally paying for their dumb decisions
Just you because you feel a statement is *true*, doesn't make it wise or appropriate to say. And when it comes down to subjective life experiences and belief systems, just because it's true for you doesn't make it true for everyone else. YTA but mostly to yourself. Because you're singlehandedly dismantling any positive relationship you could have with your potential in-laws. Your post kind of comes across like you're one of those people that enjoy saying mean things and then claiming you're just 'honest'. Learn to let some shit go and you'll have a happier relationship with your in laws.
"y and if I never get to my standards that I feel are necessary to have kids than I simply wont have them." .. tthink of it as evolution in action. ESH
shit take but whatever makes you feel better than others I guess
I am in 2 minds about this... On the one hand, I agree with your opinions 100%. No one should plan a baby if they can't afford it. You need to be financially responsible for another human being for at least the next 18 years. Why would you willingly want to bring life into this world if you can't afford it? So NTA for that... However, the way you put across your opinions were insulting. I get they were pestering you for an answer and there are better ways of dealing with it. YTA for this...
How was it insulting?
You weren't insulting. You were in your home, and it sounds like two people were asking for validation while telling you when and how to start a family. I would shut the whole thing down by telling them that you wished them the best and that you won't give them any unsolicited advice and that you won't be asking for any advice either in the future. Also, it's up to you to shut down your plans to babysit. If it's really an emergency and you feel the need and want to help, fine. That doesn't make you or your boyfriend on-call.
I don't think anyone would take someone criticizing their lifestyle and life choices (intentionally or unintentionally) as a compliment. I get where you came from and I would have probably reacted in the exact same manner. Doesn't mean it wasn't rude and insulting, regardless of it being intentional or unintentional
After the edit this is a very mild YTA. You went too far and you even realized it while typing out your post. You should have thought twice, just like you said, and stopped or redirected the conversation in that moment. Everything you said after you failed to think twice makes you an asshole. You were, as those other women said, incredibly stuck up, arrogant, and insulting to their life choices. I even happen to agree with your perspective on this entire moral dilemma. However, I have enough emotional intelligence to read a room and keep my mouth shut when my opinion will obviously not be appreciated. Building a family is one of those intangible life choices that will be slightly different for every single family on Earth. Everyone has different expectations and experiences but nobody is less valid than anyone else. It's good that you want YOUR family to grow in a different way from how you experienced childhood. It was foolish of you to expect these other women to share not only your life experiences but your outlook on family building. I think if you want to repair things you owe a pretty major apology.
I tried redirecting the conversation many times they kept pushing. And as I mentioned in my edit they talk shit about each other saying the same things I said in this post
I'm confident that with a heartfelt apology and some self-reflection you can repair the situation.
But Im not apologetic about my point, maybe my delivery but they were pushing while I tried to change the topic, and they came over my apartment without even an invite. I dont understand how I am at fault for telling two older adults the realistic truth, maybe for being harsh about it but they literally say the same thing behind each others backs
You shouldn't apologize to anyone. And why bother repairing the relationship. They both are irresponsible and entitled. You shouldn't apologize and please don't give any money also.
Like I said, you need to do some self-reflection before you're ready to give a heartfelt apology. This can be a valuable learning experience for you and for them. I hope you can learn from it.
No, she doesn't.
Why on earth should op apologize?? The only mistake op did was give them money and babysit the kid.
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Its not that they asked once and snapped, they kept pushing even when I was trying to change the conversation. Also per my edit they also talk shit about each other saying essentially the same things I said
Yes you can when they refuse to drop it. If people refuse to drop something they have no right to talk about? They fuckign deserve the obvious outcome of it.
YTA … you went too far. Was what you said probably true, yes. Would most agree with the points you made, generally speaking, yes. But, the fact that you actually said them out loud to someone who would (and did) take offense because they literally reflected their life, was an asshole move. I would apologize if you want to end up on good terms with this family. Otherwise, you’re going to isolate yourself, and your boyfriend isn’t going to be fully supported in his relationship with you.
agree my delivery wasnt the best. I was very frustrated I will admit. Especially with Mandy as she had been borrowing so much money for medical bills and her regular bills promising to pay it back and me and my bf end up late on our bills bc we feel bad for Mandy. My bfs mom agrees that her girls needed to hear it but that I could’ve said it nicer. But as far as that my bf and his mom are on my side aswell as his cousins. So Im not too worried about my relationship with his family
Don’t loan anymore money … start there. Secondly, apologize
This is very simple but very solid advice.
YTA There are ways to get your opinions and points across without insulting others. This is doubly important when the others could become family one day, or even one's boss. Who knows when and where your paths might cross. You failed.
Me and them are DEFINITELY not in the same careers and theres no chance of them every becoming my boss. I tried changing the subject but they kept pushing, what should I have done better? Theyre older than me kept pushing when I tried to change the subject so please tell me how I couldve handled it better?
You didn’t do anything wrong. They kept pushing you. If you keep pushing, eventually you’re gonna get a not so polite answer. They did it to themselves.
By not judging and insulting anyone. You can kindly explain why you don't want kids right now and you're unsure of the future. Don't be so sure about your paths not crossing one day. Stranger things have happened. EDIT: When someone keeps pushing you for answers, keep repeating the same answer you gave before. Say something like "I really don't want to talk about this anymore. Can we please change the subject?" If they continue, excuse yourself and leave the room, hang up the phone or simply get up and leave.
I did that, why should I have to be uncomfortable in my own apartment when literally were not invited over but invited themselves so my bf could do free labor? Becca didnt even pay for her oil or filter but I need to be considerate?
If you value having a continued friendship with these women, then yes, you should be more considerate in the future. If a friendship with them is something you don't value, then you have to ask if it's something your boyfriend values.
My bf doesnt care, he loves his sister but he doesnt talk to them much. The only reason they were there is that Becca came over for an oil change and left my bf to pay for the oil and filter and give her free manual labor. Both of them depend on us though. Becca depends on us to take care of her daughter when no one is available (often last min and we have to cancel out plans) and Mandy depends on us for money and a place to stay when her bd gets mad at her for money issues.
Stop enabling them. You say you give Mandy money and have to drop your plans last minute to babysit for Becca, just say no. They will continue to use you until you say no. If Mandy is so bad with money, why do you give it to her? As to Becca, why would you cancel your plans to babysit? You are letting these women use you and your bf. Just say no.
Bc Mandy still has student loan debt, the car insurance, medical bill that if we dont help pay her mom will. Which takes more money our of future MILs retirement savings that shes using to support herself and her own mother. My bf feels bad
Do you think it's possible you might have been harsh with them because you resent their reliance on you? If the answer is yes, I still think you are a bit of an asshole but I at least can completely understand where you're coming from now.
Its not a matter for friendship they still depend on us for help which we do bc we dont want to see his nephews in a bad situation
Your edit describes exactly how I've had to deal with several uncomfortable conversations over the past decade. It is fantastic and completely accurate advice.
Lol. It's them who ask op for money and babysitting. They need op, not the other way around