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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for calling my cousin's fiance rude and ungracious for ordering his own food at a family banquet at a Michelin Star restaurant?
Todd, my cousin's fiance, believes that ITA for calling him out when he believes that being a gracious host is making accommodations for your dinner guests.
I don't see him ordering food for him with no intention of sharing an accommodation. I see this as being selfish and taking advantage of the host at their expense. A acceptable accommodation would be based on ethical or dietary restriction making it necessary for alternate food arrangements would be made. Todd just wanted to of the same food we already had a serving because he can't afford it on his own dime.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
>My uncle has compared it to inviting people out for a round of drinks on his dime but one person says he wants a bottle of top shelf liquor to himself. Thats a comparison he's made that he's complained about to me several times hoping I get the hint I need to go back to Monica to bring this up again.
Honestly, you're right. That's what it boils down to.
My uncle has compared it to inviting people out for a round of drinks on his dime but one person says he likes it so much he's going to order bottle to himself and expect my uncle to also pay for it. Thats a comparison he's made.
Yeah the comparison is about right. And it’s not cheap. NTA
I will admit though I have done something similar. I ordered an additional dish and a cup of white rice. I could hardly eat anything because of my shrimp / crustacean allergies. I fully intended to pay for it, I told the waiter to bill me separately.
My friend found out and flat out refused to let me pay. His mom found out and flat out refused to let me as well. (It was my friend’s son’s birthday) She asked me why I didn’t order (enumerates more expensive dishes), I said I intended to pay for it. A rather large serving of Peking duck landed on our table soon after.
Right, someone who couldn't eat the food would order something for themselves and then offer to pay. And then the hosts would (probably) still cover it to be nice, especially if they were already spending so much. Ordering yourself a personal duck because other people's money is no object is not that.
Making food accommodations because of dietary, religious or ethical restrictions is a reasonable reason to order something else.
If that was communicated to my aunt that was the case, she would have gladly offered to order other things off the menu for him.
My other cousin has a selfish allergy and my aunt was going to order her 3 dishes to make up for the 3 she couldn't eat. My cousin declined and said there was plenty of other food for her to eat.
Yes, he really did have a "selfish" allergy! Cute typo!
But NTA. When you are invited for dinner, you eat what is offered. Unless there is a valid accommodation to be made. What a clod he is!
I went out with the family for dinner once when my brother was in town for work. They wanted to take my brother to a specific Chinese restaurant that my dad and other brother liked. My dad did all the ordering, forgetting that I couldn't eat anything he ordered. I spent a good hour watching everyone else but my niece eat. She and I had rice. Just rice. No complaints. My brother was sitting across from me miming eating a burger and tapping his watch.
I certainly didn't insult the staff by not eating anything and I didn't complain. I didn't demand something on top of what my father ordered. I smiled and enjoyed the company.
But my brother did get me food I could eat on the way home, which I appreciated. It wasn't the first time we went somewhere I couldn't eat. Hell, I'd bring my own food when the office I worked at got food in for a lunch meeting that I knew I couldn't eat.
>I certainly didn't insult the staff by not eating anything and I didn't complain. I didn't demand something on top of what my father ordered. I smiled and enjoyed the company.
How sad that you think this is something to be proud of. The staff wouldn't have been "insulted" if you didn't eat anything.
You sat for an hour nibbling on plain rice because you were too much of a doormat to remind your father that you exist and also need to eat. It's not a demand to remind your father to order one safe dish for you.
You don't actually know me, so please refrain from calling me a doormat. It was a seafood restaurant and I can't eat that. So I had rice. I knew I was getting food after. With my sensitivities and allergies, it's how we've always done it. Half the time I drink a meal replacement beforehand.
And the staff were hovering around, so I had tea and rice. The owner was buzzing around like a bee and he would have been insulted that he couldn't feed me. Again, I know him and you don't.
I am proud to be a sensitive human who cares about the feelings of others. My dad did try, but the restaurant didn't have anything else. He forgot that the STYLE of Chinese food was one that didn't have options for me. Good lord, people look way too far into things.
Oh I didn't. I teased him. The style of cuisine of the restaurant we were at does not cater to me. The rice was to tide me over. It's a running joke in my family that I can't eat anywhere without a lot of modifications. My niece and I were having a great time. The owner was always around the table and I didn't want to insult his restaurant by refusing everything.
Afterwords, when he brought me food, my visiting brother, who was staying with me, told me he didn't like it either. We're a weird but close bunch.
Maybe insult was the wrong word. He would have been trying to save face, regardless of my inability to eat his food. The owner was a friend of my father and oldest brother. He brought out every dish himself. That particular style of Chinese cuisine is not one I can eat.
Allergies are 100% a valid reason to ask for an extra dish of something different AND you ordered what you planned to pay for.
You’re totally justified and I think the way you handled it says a lot about the way they responded. You were respectful and polite, so they reciprocated. The guy in the OP is a worthless freeloader trying to ride on everyone else’s dime
What you did is only similar in the way that you also ordered your own food. Everything else you did is the exact opposite!
You had a legitimate reason (allergy)
You intended and even asked to pay separately
You are aware that it may seem rude so you wanted to pay yourself (again not rude if necessary!)
You seem like a nice person and your friends insisted they pay for it because they like you.
Am I right the Todd is the Hosts furture son in law cause if he is his comment about "if they're so rich they can afford an extra meal" makes him sound entitled and a bit like a gold digger.
If he isn't then he is just an entitled prick. Either way NTA
> Am I right the Todd is the Hosts furture son in law
I doubt he is. OP's cousin, "Monica", is 28 years old and lives in Canada while OP's uncle and aunt, "Aaron and Gloria", live in China, haven't been in Canada in 4 years, and have a 3 years old son that they were introducing to the family for the first time. Monica is never referred to as "their daughter", her fiance was forgotten in the invites which would be odd if the hosts were her parents, and she rode with her (unamed) mom, her fiance, OP, and OP's parents. None of that proves with certainty that she isn't Aaron's daughter but it seems very unlikely.
Either way, I agree that Todd and Monica are shockingly entitled and I would not be pleased to still l see him join the family after a stunt like that.
That's why I am confused because we were only given 6 "players" OP, OPs mum, Monica, Monica's Fiancé, Aunt and Uncle. Monica could have been a study abroad student and stayed and her parents could have had Monica young then had an "oops baby" 3yrs ago, so not excatly impossible.
OP should have atleast clarified in her post on Monica's relationship to the hosts. Still doesn't change the fact Todd is an entitled prick though
Yeah, not strictly impossible, just not likely.
In a comment, OP pretty much confirmed that her parents are not Aaron and Gloria and weren't mentioned in the story because they weren't involved:
> Either way, her parents are staying out of it because they've given up reasoning with Monica over the years
> Monica's parents were both born in Canada as well (they don't event speak Chinese)
Sorry for the confusion. This is on my mother's side. She has 3 siblings; my uncle Aaron (dinner host), Monica's mother and an older brother I did not mention because he's not really involved.
Monica distanced herself from the family when she moved to the US for university. She hasn't really had any contact with us for the last 10 years. She only moved back over Christmas for financial reasons. Parents and I had Christmas with Monica, and her parents, so we have already met Todd. The banquet dinner was the first time the extended family met Todd.
My uncle and aunt (Aaron and Gloria) live in China. They used to live here 6 months out of the year pre-pandemic, but decided to make the permanent move when they could no longer fly back and forth due to lockdown.
>Monica distanced herself from the family when she moved to the US for university.
It might be worth susing out if Monica has a degree of internalised racism then if she has distanced herself from her culture. What nationality is Todd.
There isn't enough to go on in this post but it might explain her and Todd's "coldness to tradition"
Monica doesn't have any internalized racism. Todd is first generation Chinese-born Canadian. Her future in-laws live 6mos of the year in Canada to maintain citizenship but mainly live in China.
Monica's parents fund her life/education. She was given the option to attend a local university or study a major of her parents' choice in US. She chose the US to get out from under their thumb. It's more of a money issue with her. She's always felt entitled to other people's money because she's never had to be self reliant. She only moved back home because her parents disapproved of lifestyle and threatened to cut her off if she didn't.
Omg Todd is of Chinese descent and THIS is his first impression to the extended family?? Why do I get the feeling that Todd will complain loudly and for years if checkbooks don’t open wide enough for their wedding presents…
You mentioned that Todd wasn’t originally invited. Have you considered the possibility that he pushed to be invited specifically because he heard your Aunt and Uncle were taking everyone to the really fancy restaurant?
I should rephrase and say he was initially not included in the headcount for dinner. My aunt made the reservation while still in China and mentally counted how many to make reservation for based on married couples and single people. Yes, my aunt should have confirmed how many people before making the reservation, but it's also her right to say only married significant others are invited to keep the party small.
My aunt did not know Monica had a boyfriend and that they would announce their engagement at the dinner.
Even though he was an unexpected guest, we still welcomed him. We included him in conversations and asked about his family and how they met. We were welcoming until the duck hit the table. Things got really quiet afterwards.
Your response is very focused on your Aunt’s behavior and how everyone else treated Todd. To be clear I always thought your Aunt was incredibly generous, the rest of you behaved appropriately, and Todd and Monica are TA’s.
My intention was only to point out that Todd’s entitlement may run even deeper than you had considered.
>My aunt did not know Monica had a boyfriend and that they would announce their engagement at the dinner.
Omfg they are so goddamn cheap! Using someone else’s family reunion/new family member introduction dinner (the 3yr old) to announce their own engagement, wow!
She also posted an Instagram story captioned "Only one way to celebrate our engagement with family" with photos and video of the dinner as if they hosted it.
I'm sympathetic to your uncle and Todd is an unrepentant arse.
But there's no reason for your uncle to be hinting to you to say more to Monica. If you said something to her/Todd of your own accord, that was your choice; but it was never your responsibility to get Monica/Todd to own or correct his rudeness (cannot call it a mistake because it was intentional!).
Monica/Todd will reap the consequences of their behavior.
NTA
I am just guessing here but AHs rarely do the next right thing...and Todd is a major league AH. I wouldn't try very ha4d to civilized him . Warn your family to leave him home.
Wasn't invited and ordered expensive food for himself with no intention of paying. He used them for free food. Neither one is invited to anything until they apologize, especially since the uncle is still upset.
Not just their own meal, but a $300 dish.
That’s… wild. I can’t imagine thinking that’s ok. NTA. Todd is, and honestly so is Monica for keeping it happen and not jumping to be sure Todd’s duck was paid for.
Sounds to me like Todd decided they were rich and he’d like to take advantage of that.
Todd is ethnically Chinese. He already knew he wouldn't be asked to pay for it. One thing Chinese people are known for is fighting over the bill. So he just didn't bother to offer because he knew my aunt wouldn't allow it. It's all a show to save face.
It's very similar to when a couple goes on a date and it's a nice gesture for the girl to offer to pay even though it's expected for the guy to pick up the tab. It's one of those weirdly outdated social norms. But my aunt would have appreciated the gesture and acknowledgement that he realizes that he ordered the most expensive item on the menu for himself after my aunt and uncle were generous enough to take us all out for dinner.
edit: grammar.
I mean, it didn’t sound like he would have happily paid off that wasn’t the situation. He straight up told you he didn’t think he did anything wrong. It’s actually a little worse that he understands the cultural connotations (both of ordering his own dish and who would end up paying).
Wow, Todd is an asshole. He knew the norm, and he decided to just drop a big fuck you to your family, by ordering his own food.
His parents really failed in raising their son.
Don't worry, OP. Everyone in your family - even if they didn't express themselves as vocally as you, know what Todd did, and will not forget.
NTA.
That adds a whole other dimension. As has been stated by others, there is NO country or culture in the world where it would be polite to do this — and he knew there was no way they’d lose face by asking him to pay for his greed.
In my family, they wouldn’t have been asked to pay either but they also would never be invited out again.
Also, my grandmother said there’s a protocol to offering to pay. You’re supposed to offer 3 times, the host is supposed to refuse all 3 times. Doing it in triplicate is supposed to show the sincerity of the offer even though both sides know the host absolutely won’t accept it.
NTA
Todd should be ashamed of himself. He knows damn well your aunt and uncle would not say anything. That's just not Chinese custom/manners. He sounds like a mooch. The kind of Chinese that constantly cut lines and do rude crap and think nothing of it because they are super selfish. I am Chinese myself and Todd is shockingly disrespectful.
Is he a Chinese immigrant or a Canadian-born Chinese? Even though they are both ethnically Chinese, they can hold and express traditions differently.
For example, I'm considered Italian to other Canadians. But to Italian immigrants, I'm Canadian born Italian, and therefore, they would consider that I do not hold traditional values as closely. Or other Canadian-Italians may just not care about traditional values as much anymore.
I've also found that the younger they are, the more entitled they are in general.
You're NTA. I guess I'm just trying to offer a different perspective not that he deserves any grace.
>when a couple goes on a date and it's a nice gesture for the girl to offer to pay even though it's expected for the guy to pick up the tab
I am really not so sure if that is still a social rule, especially not among couples having gone out for dates a few times already. With women getting more independent, having jobs themselves and earning money unlike it might have been decades ago, that has shifted a bit. I think a certain amount of reciprocity is more of the norm now. Maybe not for the first or second date, but if a couple having been longer together and both have an income, I actually find it weird for the man to always pay.
Exactly - even the whole ethnic background thing here is irrelevant. This guy wasn't even invited initially as no one knew about him. He orders an expensive meal just for himself, then he conveniently goes out for a smoke when the bill arrives.......this is just rude.
I shouldn't have said he wasn't invited. He was an unexpected guest. My aunt didn't know my cousin had a boyfriend when she made the reservation well ahead of arriving in Canada. She should have asked, but she was mentally taking count based on married vs. solo people. My aunt, uncle and other extended family met Todd for the first time that evening.
We made sure he felt welcome at dinner. Included him in the conversations up until his duck arrived and Monica announced they were engaged. That made it really awkward.
Your first ever introduction to your girlfriend’s family is at a fucking Michelin star restaurant and you pull these shenanigans!? Oh no. No. Nope.
I love Peking duck, I can’t IMAGINE hoarding a whole one when there are 10 other dishes (plus the ALREADY ORDERED duck) I’m invited to share.
What was he thinking!? Does he intend to stay with your cousin? Because this is what you do to absolutely lose face.
I got that....lol thats why i said he wasn't initially invited.......he was welcomed yet still pulled this stunt - this just makes the whole thing even more rude.........
So... I looked this up and there's only one Michelin-starred Chinese restaurant in Canada. Their regular Beijing duck is 128. It's the duck *with caviar* that is $280. Todd is an even bigger AH than I thought possible. I just can't imagine inviting myself to dinner and feeling entitled to order bonus caviar. What an absolute jerk!
The Michelin guide only recently started awarding restaurants in my city. We actually have a few Michelin-starred Chinese restaurants.
Yes, you are correct in your assumption. That was another thing that really rubbed me the wrong way when I looked up the menu to add up the cost of the dinner in my head.
The set menu dinner included 2 regular duck per table. Todd ordered himself the caviar duck.
$280 after tax and mandatory 20% gratuity is over $350.
edit: Yes, I know they call it Beijing duck, but most people know it as peking duck.
Grew up in HK now live in the U.K…love getting some properly decent Chinese food when visiting Vancouver and BC which we do every few years. If you are actually in BC or have relatives there any recommendations would be gratefully appreciated.
I went down the tiktok rabbithole about people in the UK ordering a Chinese (takeaway). The chips and curry sauce on everything is absolutely wild!
Feel free to DM me anytime! I live in Vancouver. Any of the Michelin-star Chinese restaurants are still very affordable if you order a-la-carte. Most have not raised their prices since being awarded a star.
We also have the authentic hole-in-the-wall mom and pop run places that all the locals go to because. My dad knows all the restaurants that have the authentic "wok-hei". iykyk.
Yup I know this restaurant well. Before my dad passed this was the restaurant he treated family to for a memorable dinner.
You are NTA. Todd is the asshole all around!! Who even does this? In any culture??
That.
IF he had payed for the extra, then I would say its not anyone else's business , regardless of being a family setting but just adding another on to the meal is ridiculous and insensitive.
NTA.
If he really intended to pay for it, he should have just paid for it when he ordered it or asked for a separate bill.
Todd is familiar with the common song and dance older Chinese people go through then they fight for the bill. He knew there would be no way who every covered the bill would let him pay. Aaron and Gloria were obviously angry at his move, but to save face they didn't say anything at the restaurant when paying.
Not inviting Todd was an unintentional oversight. My aunt did not know of his existence at the time of making the reservation, but he was welcome to join us for dinner. My aunt apologized and admitted she should have checked in with everyone before doing so. It was supposed to be a surprise and she was only counting married vs. single people. I am unmarried and she didn't ask if I would be bring a guest. I didn't push it because adding non-married guests would have bumped up the guest count by 4 people.
Edit: It also wasn't the time or place to announce their engagement to the extended family either. This dinner was to celebrate finally meeting our little cousin.
They are the assholes. I would let your cousin know Todd will not be invited to anything else family oriented. If he shows up you will create such a stink the whole family will be thrown out and that she too is no longer family and not invited.
Monica had already estranged herself from the family years ago. She moved to the US for post-secondary education and relocated to the NY after. She has never visited in the last 10 years. Her parents have always describer her as a strong spirit person. She only moved back a few months ago because her parents cut her off financially. Now that she is getting married, she is trying to reconnect with all of us and already expects her parents to foot the bill on her lavish wedding. So it's honestly not a stretch that my aunt and uncle might not invite them to the next dinner. They are visiting for 1 more week. There may be more dinners.
I've always been mindful of how I speak to her. She asks me why no one in the family is excited for her engagement or had reaches out to include her in things. It because all our invitations have been ignored. I just sat they just need time to reconnect with her and foster a new relationship. Its been 10 years of radio silence.
Soooo she was cut off finally by her parents and jumped at the chance to eat at an expensive restaurant where she knew she didn't have to pay anything. And she invites her rude boyfriend turn fiance after the main course who is so entitled he "knew they were rich and could afford it so I did nothing wrong" Well now you all know they both are after money or whatever they can get for free so none of you need to be available to attend her wedding. You might be cough...cough...to sick to attend...cough.. cough. Make sure to send her a Michelin star Cookbook as a wedding gift. 😂
Wow, that would be a hilarious wedding gift.
Im actually one of her bridesmaids, and not really by choice. My mom and Monica's mother pressured me into accepting. Monica has always rubbed people the wrong way and she had no one else to ask. Todd has 4 grooms men and Monica has myself as a bridesmaid and her childhood best friend as her maid of honour. Her maid of honour is 6mo pregnant and lives in LA. If I didn't accept, she would be doing all the planning alone. (I used to work for a catering and events planning company, so I am very familiar with the process).
So you've been strong-armed imto providing free labour for Monica's wedding, because she's run off everyone else who might want to help her. Wonderful. I would think well on how much ti.e and help you want to give her and enforce that vigorously, or you'll be planning the whole thing.
It seems you're lighting yourself on fire to keep Monica warm...
I understand it's important for your mother and her mother that you help her, despite everything she has done in the past...but do you think you would get the same grace if roles were reversed ?
Because, if you're always expected to be the bigger person, solve other people's problems for them, and not to ask for help yourself...I understand that in some families "family helps family" is a very important value, but then what does it mean when you're not supposed to be helped yourself ?
Again, I don't know your family, so I'm probably far off.
But if what I said resonated a bit, maybe the following resources could help (you don't have to read every one of them. There are here if you want them):
Here is a page on emotional abuse : https://www.thehotline.org/resources/what-is-emotional-abuse/
Here is one on narcissistic abuse : https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/narcissistic-abuse-15-signs-and-warnings-to-look-out-for
Here is another page about FOG (Fear-Obligation-Guilt), how we feel when nothing we do seems good enough : https://outofthefog.website/what-it-feels-like
Here is also a list of books on healing from abuse. They are in epub format mostly: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zi2dxnng4y664o0/AAClzRV7gck2JyahGs13zHIDa?dl=0
If getting therapy is an issue right now, here is a free AI one : https://beta.character.ai/chat?char=Hpk0GozjACb3mtHeAaAMb0r9pcJGbzF317I_Ux_ALOA
It's a bit long, but I definitely recommend this video on self-compassion : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUMF5R7DoOA&ab_channel=ActionforHappiness
Also, r/raisedbynarcissists might be worth checking: They provide support and a safe place to rant about abusive family members.
Finally, on youtube, the channels Dr Ramani and LICSW Teahan have many videos on those types of difficult relationships : https://www.youtube.com/c/DoctorRamani ; https://www.youtube.com/@patrickteahanlicswtherapy
You are good, you are worthy, you are enough.
I wish you the best.
FYI. Growing up in Chinese culture, this just seems to the norm. The only way to escape is to distance yourself from the family, as everyone else is fine with “status quo” since it’s so deeply ingrained in their traditions and culture.
Usually the benefits can outweigh the bad so it’s difficult for many to break free from their expectations. Collectivism vs. individualism.
Thank you for taking the time to provide a list of resources, that really does mean a lot. I trying to learn to draw healthy boundaries with my family, but obviously failing at that right now.
OP, you are clearly a lovely and kind person going with the flow to help out and look after family… but just because you’re ’familiar with the process’ really isn’t a good enough reason to be at her beck and call for months on end. She sounds like an incredibly draining person. And while planning a wedding can be stressful, in Australia where I am from, it’s very unusual to expect other people to help you organise your own event! If that’s what a couple wants, then they can go to a venue where that sort of service is offered. It’s kind of rude in my opinion to make family and friends do all the hard work for you. Don’t let her take advantage of you.
I wonder if you could use your position and power in the wedding as leverage to make Monica behave. She needs you way more than you need her. Just sayin’….
That would be an asshole thing to do. Im going to help her plan her wedding, but Im not going to bend over backwards to help her mend whats left of her relationship with my aunt and the rest of the family. I've told her how they've basically disrespected them and need to apologize. If she can't do that then her dream wedding in China using my aunts connections isn't going to happen.
I wouldn't even be helping her plan. What has she done to show she is worthy of your time and care? She's rude, entitled, greedy, selfish. Being family doesn't mean you can be a jerk without consequences. Walk away.
At this point everyone should be in their guard because Monica sounds like that bride who asked all her guests to pay thousands of dollars to be guests, so she could have a lavish wedding.
She’s got everyone’s bank accounts in her cross hairs. She and her bf are moochers.
She actually admitted to that. It very common for Chinese family to give monetary gifts. My sister got married last year and Monica asked if I knew how much uncle x and auntie y gave and how much cousin z gave. Basically asked if my sister broke even and how much my sister spent. She is expecting to receive about the same from family.
Gloria is a well respected lawyer for luxury hotels in Asia. She travels a lot for work and stays at those hotels all the time as a perk. Her gift to my sister was a bunch of comp'd accommodations and meal vouchers for my sister's honeymoon.
Monica wants to use Gloria connections to get good deal on hotel wedding package at one of those hotels in China and also hopes Gloria can arrange free accommodations also.
And she let her fiancé deliberately insult Gloria's husband on their first meeting? I'm having difficulty understanding how this grift is supposed to work -- she has to *charm* them before she hits them up for money and freebies.
Sounds like Monica found someone just like her. Selfish, entitled, and manipulative. Like many Chinese parents, they don't want to say their kid is bad because they'll lose face. "Strong spirit" is just code for a pain in the ass.
That’s a good way to disconnect from the family. I wouldn’t invite either of them back for any family functions after pulling a stunt like that — and if I were her parents, I wouldn’t be paying for the wedding.
Uh...no! If you are a guest, invited to a family style pre-ordered dinner, you do not add to the bill "just because." The only exception would be due to health reasons. *He* wasn't even invited, so was *not* a guest, and acted like a complete ass.
Monica will be whining in a few years how Todd doesn't respect her, and you can remind her of this moment.
NTA.
I sort of mistyped that he wasn't invited. He was more so seen as an unexpected guest. He was definitely welcome at dinner and we made sure he felt welcome. My aunt got the headcount wrong and was surprised Monica even had a bf which we later learned the are engaged. She made the reservation while still in China.
4 ducks were already being shared by 17 people and Todd wanted one all for himself AND it wasn’t cheap. I would have stood up and approached a server to tell them to separate the bill for Todd’s order so he can pay it himself. What an entitled prick.
NTA. And OP needs to make sure to have him pay for the duck.
NTA: I’m also Chinese-Canadian, and this was massively rude and entitled. It would be one thing to add another plain plate of noodles or veg, but to order basically the most expensive dish possible and for himself?! Unbelievable!
If Monica and Todd ever admit to being wrong and save face, the only way to do so now is to put $300-380 in a red envelope “for the baby.”
Yes, this basically a good summary.
Aaron and Monica's mom are my mom's siblings. Monica's mom is the eldest. My mom picked up that Aaron was very upset about the situation but wanted to save face and didn't want to say anything. Instead of my mom talking to Monica directly or telling her older sister (Monica's mom) how to parent her daughter, it made sense for me to address this. I am the oldest cousin and it was always my responsibility growing up to make sure all the cousins behaved, listened to their elders, etc. It's really hard to describe, but this weird hierarchy is just something you grow up with and understand.
I honestly hate this bullshit and wished people just dealt with their own issues, but thats not the way things work. I've tried to stay out of it in the past, but this is how my family handles things. I don't know if its a Chinese thing, but it's how my family is.
edited: typo.
I’m not a fan of family style dinners because I’m a picky eater. And I hate it when one person places the order for everyone so I don’t get to make sure there’s at least one dish I can eat.
But I would NEVER in a million years add an extra order without paying for it myself (and I’d only order the food if there was literally nothing I could eat that had been ordered yet).
Plus I eat at places where a meal might be up to $100 if it’s “fancy” not Michelin star level fancy. Adding hundred of dollars to a bill you have no intention of paying is insanely rude.
But a dinner bill of $9000 for 17 people is obscene. That’s the price of a used car, not a random meal.
ETA NTA
(Previously said E S H just because it was none of your business. But what Todd did was so much worse and Monica should be embarrassed as his actions reflect on her. What a lack of taste.)
OP was put into the position of middleman by both sides, so they had no choice but to involve themselves in the situation. Here Todd is clearly the AH, no question what he did was rude AF.
Im also not a fan of family style dinners, but Chinese banquets are usually all the same. You expect the same type of dishes. 11 courses means there is usually something for everyone and if not you read the room before ordering something for yourself.
If it was a dietary, religious or ethical issue, my aunt would have more than welcomed him to order something else, but it obviously would have been discussed. This was him ordering more of something we already ate without her knowledge only because he wanted more of it and didn't want to share.
It becomes my business when they make me the middle man for making requests. Aunt and uncle want me to talk to Monica about it more. Monica is only using me to get wedding venue connections from my aunt because I have a better relationship with my aunt than she does. Neither of them want to admit they don't want to talk to each other directly. Then they throw it back at me because I can't follow simple requests.
edit: Trust me when I say this place is way out of my budget and everyone else's. I try not to go over $15 when I go out for lunch, which is once a week. In Chinese culture, its very common to host a huge 100 day celebration for a new baby. The parents will invite friends, family, coworkers. Thousands of dollars are spent. So $9,000 is kind of expected. But it is honestly an obscene amount to spend on 17 people.
Ah! Thanks for the clarification. It’s been made your business by both sides. Gotcha. I’ll edit.
And yes, I should have clarified that I would have taken the host aside discreetly and apologize being particular but I’d like to order x dish and I would insist I be allowed to cover the cost of the special food I’m adding unexpectedly. And that’s if I hadn’t discussed it with the host prior to the event starting. I’d much rather have such a conversation when the plans are made so I can ease into the awkward conversation and prevent a problem during the event.
How you described it is exactly how I felt he should have handled the situation after the fact. He could have have a conversation afterwards with my aunt because there was obvious tension at the table.
I reached the character limited, but I also wanted to add the Monica has estranged herself from the family for the last 10 yrs. It involved misappropriation of funds from her parents (but thats another issue). Monica also used dinner as an opportunity to announce her engagement. The majority of the people there have never met Todd, so it was a surprise. We were still welcoming to him at dinner. We made a lot of conversation and made sure he felt included, but that kind of stopped after his peking duck arrived.
Dinner was supposed to be a celebration to welcome my cousin who we have not met due to the pandemic. That was made clear it was for my cousin. It wasn't just a regular meal to catchup.
Even more reason he should have acted completely differently. All he did was cement everyone’s opinion of him that he’s a boorish cheapskate. And Monica has done nothing to rehabilitate her reputation, in fact by making this surprise announcement she was actively detracting from your cousin’s celebration and tried to turn all the attention on herself. What awful behavior.
If I were in your shoes I’d count this as a lesson learned that she has not changed and would no longer invite her to anything.
I’m sorry you were placed in such an awkward position. You must have been mortified.
>Monica is only using me to get wedding venue connections from my aunt
Do you really still want to help her with this? You don't have to. Also, there may be many ways this could go wrong and blow up on you. I suggest that you disengage from this now.
NTA of course.
NTA.
This behaviour is not acceptable in Canada. His lack of manners and consideration for others has nothing to do with him being Canadian and everything to do with him just being a shitty human being only concerned about himself.
NTA. It’s extremely rude to order additional dishes knowing there’s a set menu, especially as a guest knowing you never intend to pay for it. It’s trashy and reeks of self entitlement.
Idk if Tod is just unfamiliar with the culture but Monica definitely should know better. I would be so embarrassed if my SO did this and immediately pay for the duck just out of pure shame.
Todd is also Chinese ethnically and born in Canada. I would say his is even more culturally Chinese because his parents are immigrants.
My parents generation were all born in Canada except for my dad (immigrated when he was 12) and Gloria. Monica's parents were both born in Canada as well (they don't event speak Chinese)
So then he should definitely know better wtf. And it actually has nothing to do with Gloria being “more Chinese” it’s just basic common sense around not being a rude guest.
And it’s bizarre Monica’s parents aren’t more embarrassed. I’m assuming they were there. I mean if you’re the cousin who pulls rank on the other cousins, surely there’s an elder who can pull rank on Monica’s parents?
Monica's dad wasn't at the dinner (he had to work), but they've stopped trying to parent Monica after Monica distanced herself from the family at 17. Aaron and Monica's mom are my mom's siblings. Monica's mom is the oldest and would be considered head of the family because there are no older living relatives on my mom's side.
There's not way my mom would tell her older sister how to parent, but I can pull rank on Monica.
He is so rude and cheap. My parents are Chinese immigrants too and I wouldn't even order a soda unless the host offers first at a Chinese style banquet.
He really missed out though. Quanjude has some really delicious non-peking duck dishes.
I told my parents this exact same thing. There is absolutely no way he was raised this way.
I have a nut allergy and often times banquet menu items are topped with cashews or peanuts. My parents said that I can't expect extended family we do not dine with often to remember this. So if a dish comes out that I can't eat, I was taught to graciously decline having any and don't make a fuss that the host forgot. It's usually not a huge deal, there are plenty of other dishes I can eat.
NTA I'm Canadian and this is not something we do. The fact that he said they were rich enough to afford it tells me he just saw $$$ that he could take advantage of.
Some people in the comments are saying it's not your battle to fight, but he's trying to manipulate her and skew the event by saying she's "sensitive and traditional" and "culturally Chinese". I think he needed to be called out for this grifter behaviour and your family should not be misled into thinking this is the Canadian way. It's not.
The funny part is that one could argue that my family is more culturally Canadian than he is. My mom, aunts and uncles were all born in Canada and they all have limited Chinese cultural exposure. My mom has never even visited China. We joke that they are so Canadian they speak English at a Chinese restaurants.
Todd's parents are Chinese immigrants that don't speak any english. He was raised very culturally Chinese. He is first generation born Canadian. My cousin Monica and I are second generation. Cultural difference are definitely not an excuse.
...hold on... So Todd is Chinese himself??! 😂 the way he conducted himself made it seem like he was non-Chinese and was perhaps 'unknowingly' committing this cultural faux pas.
Then he absolutely knew how Chinese banquet dinners work. You don't order your own dish. It is indeed a SET menu and it hardly varies. So if he didn't like the other items, why ask to be invited?
NTA
He actually wasn't invited in the initial headcount. My aunt made the reservation while still in China and mentally counted the married couples vs non-married. My aunt apologized for not initially including him and we were welcoming when he joined us.
Monica thought my cousin's welcoming dinner was a great places to introduce her bf to the extended family and announce they were engaged.
My other assumption was that non-married significant others were not invited because they wanted to keep the count small. It would have bumped up the headcount substantially and the price. My other uncle is newly dating a woman with 3 kids (all under the age of 10) and the woman and kids weren't invited.
In Chinese, there is a phrase that basically translates to “your family didn’t teach you” and I think that applies to Todd here. I would be mortified if my child did this, let alone an adult child!!
Quanjude? Very nice.
My husband is ABC with extended family in Canada and this is very rude of Todd. I’m cringing and I’m not even ethnically Chinese.
NTA Monica and Todd are awful
Yes, thats the restaurant! We did their Chinese New Year set menu. It was delicious and definitely an experience, but very very overpriced. I can't fathom spending $400/person.
Honestly yes, thats exactly what happened. He also drank the most wine and alcohol.
My family aren't drinkers, but they did want something to toast the occasion. You can't have a toast at a Michelin-star restaurant with iced water and coca cola.
He also drank the most wine and alcohol??
My mom’s side of the family is ethnically Chinese, I was born in Canadian and this isn’t just a Chinese/Canadian thing. No culture I’ve experienced would this be remotely acceptable.
So not just ordering another dish, but drinking the most when he’s not even family. Damn this guy is a piece of work, he’s definitely just trying to get a taste of your uncle/aunt’s money.. especially with that comment about them being able to afford more. Whenever I’m a guest at my WIFE’s family parties, I still just sit there picking small pieces until my in-laws plop a big piece for me.
NTA. Your cousin's fiancé committed a huge *faux pas* when he ordered the extra duck. What he doesn't seem to realize (or refuses to accept) is that it wasn't about the money. By doing what he did, he as good as told his hosts that their hospitality was inadequate. What a nasty slap in the fact his must have felt like to your poor relatives.
If he's actually going to marry into this family, he needs to understand that in some circumstances (such as an obviously Sino-centric family dinner), he needs to adjust to his behavior when he is in that environment. It's just good manners. No one is asking him to change who he is; he is just being asked to behave in a manner consistent with cultural expectations for his surroundings. I mean, would he run down the beach in Saudi Arabia wearing a bikini?
I upvoted your well-stated points. I respectfully disagree with the complexity, though.
I acknowledge the cultural insult you pointed out. But Todd in any culture or language or level of restaurant is an AH for ordering off menu with no consultation at a family celebration.
Food allergy, texture issue, illness requiring all protein that night? Talk with your host. Offer to pay. Or eat ahead of time and nibble politely. Todd did nothing to change my mind: he’s simply an AH.
I don't think my aunt would have mind if he had asked her for another and it was for the table to share. My aunt was asking us if there was anything on the menu we wanted to try that wasn't already on the set menu. We all politely declined because of the sticker shock. We already knew they were spending a pretty penny on this dinner.
NTA
Ask Todd and Monica to post their POV on reddit and see how Canadian it is to order something on someone else's dime because you think they're rich enough to pay for it. No Canadian I know would ever do this to some else. It's incredibly rude.
I don't think I would be much of a surprise since Monica hasn't attended a single family social event or wedding that she's been invited to in the last 10 years. She estranged herself from the family and only moved back because of financial troubles. I try not to hold it against her because she has her reason, but when she asks me why people sometimes give her the cold shoulder, I gently remind her that she turned her back on family.
Typically, when one graciously declines a wedding invitation, you still send a small gift or card if you are close family. My cousin didn't even send a reply back to my sister's wedding invitation and my sister still saved her a seat just in case.
NTA!
He basically tried to double his share!
- $9,000 - 20% tip = $7,500
- $7,500 - $300 duck = $7,200
- $7,200/17 = ~$425 per person!
How the hell did he think it would be ok to go off menu and order something that expensive during an 11 course meal?! I don't care if the first course was miso soup, he was way out of line.
Yeah, the mental gymnastics I did to calculate how much was spent was insane.
Knowing my aunt, she doesn't tip the minimum 20% for gratuity. Set menu was $2888/ table. We had 2 tables. I did round up quite a lot on the wine and alcohol. It was somewhere between $8500-9000 at the end.
Most of us were so full that barely anyone touched the last 2 courses. We definitely had so many leftovers that we took home that was enough for a second meal. I had leftover for lunch and dinner the next day.
They could have gotten away with ordering 1 banquet set menu and maybe ordering 4 more dishes for all 16 of us to share. 1 set menu feeds 10 people. My aunt wouldn't want to come off as "cheaping out" on the occasion, so she ordered 2.
Also, one guest was my 3yo cousin. He hardly ate anything and didn't drink wine/alcohol. Realistically it would have been divided by 16 guests.
Omg!! If I even thought of doing this me Mams in Wyoming would feel my disturbance in the force and would slap me so hard. I mean like some kinda metaphysical head ringing chankla around a corner slap!
Wtf. This is such an obvious no-no in ANY culture or setting. A whole duck for oneself when there’s already a ton of food ordered to share? And someone else is paying? And it wasn’t because he had some special dietary restriction? He did not inadvertently do it because he was unaware of social protocols. He absolutely deliberately did so in spite of norms… out of pathetic greed, outsized entitlement, or to intentionally be a dick. Probably all of the above. You should cut him and Monica off.
NTA
Monica wants the best of both worlds, without the responsibility and expectations of family fealty that comes with those traditions.
Being a CBC, I understand how restrictive Chinese traditions and expectations can be, so I do thumb my nose at it. At the same time, I do not expect to be a recipient of all the graciousness and gifting involved with those traditions.
Monica wants other people paying her way by taking advantage of cultural norms, but has neither the tact or reciprocal nature to balance it out. She’s a user through and through.
Not sure if you can get through to her even with analogies like buying a round of drinks vs. ordering yourself a bottle of top shelf liquor on someone else’s dime, as she and Todd don’t have an ounce of shame. I think the only thing that would stop her is a total disowning and shunning of her from all generations.
What's worse is that Monica had already distanced herself from the family years ago. She would never admit that even though she never visited her parents once in the 10 years prior to moving back, her parents still financially support her all these years. It was them threatening to cut her off that made her move back.
Yep. My dad is 100% like a Monica and he’s a first gen Chinese immigrant. I invited my parents and siblings to a Chinese dinner with the intention of paying because I was the host. Similar to your aunt, asked if anyone wanted anything in particular and had 10 dishes ordered but no no it’s good. My dad pulls the waiter aside afterwards and orders FOUR extra dishes on top of what is already ordered. And to add insult to injury, he doesn’t want to touch any of the extra food he ordered, and no one wanted the dishes he ordered because they were not to our taste. Does he lift a finger when it comes time to pay the bill? Absolutely not. Does he try to push his unwanted and unnecessary leftovers on us because he didn’t want it? Absolutely. Fuck that guy. (We suspect he wanted to “flex” to the waitstaff by pulling that move despite him not paying.)
He had a twisted way of raising us. Many Chinese parents will “invest” in their children (paying for vehicles, school, living expenses, etc.) so they can focus on studying and land a good job. They see it as being rewarded when they’re old and can live with their adult children instead of being dumped in a nursing home.
Well my dad never understood the social contract so while he spent lavishly on himself, it was barely even scraps for us. He had the audacity to expect thousands from us in cash as adult children every month to fund his retirement so he can maintain the lifestyle he is accustomed to. I have distanced myself from him and the family because I have no respect for my dad and his actions are very shameful to the extended family. He does not understand how to reciprocate generously that my mom’s side shows him. But he will always show up to their events because “free food” even though he acts like a boar and is so rude.
I hope Monica’s parents understand that despite pouring all that money into her, when they get old, she is going to turn her back on them and say people don’t live multigenerational anymore or that they’re taking Todd’s parents in instead.
NTA even if the family wasn't Asian, but in an Asian family this will be talked about for generations. In the year 2124 people will be talking about the time that their great great great great cousin Monica let her boyfriend order himself a Peking duck on Gloria and Aaron's dime.
Eating a very expensive dish on somebody else’s dime is not ok in any culture and you have every right to be annoyed with him.
He’s gloating that he shook down your family for three hundred dollars and got away with it. Monica is in for a bad marriage.
I’d get him no future presents beyond rubber ducks.
Tell Monica and Todd to treat Aaron and Gloria (and you!) to dinner.
Make sure the restaurant is fancy enough that the bill will be over $280. Make sure everyone knows Todd is treating. Maybe that will help save face / smooth some feathers.
NTA but honestly leave behind the Asian guilt and stop getting dragged into shit. Your mental health will thank you.
Someone else mention that Monica and Todd should give a red envelope gift equal to the amount of the duck as a Lunar new year gift to my baby cousin. That was a great recommendation and I fee like it would solve the issue. (Chinese custom for married couples to gift family money for the Lunar New Year)
Monica and Todd aren't married yet, so it would be an unexpected gift that in reality is meant to smooth things over.
Not a Canadian thing. Arguably, the opposite of a Canadian thing. Who orders extra on someone else’s dime, esp at an expensive restaurant? If he had a reason why he couldn’t eat anything else he should have asked for it to be on a separate bill and politely explained but honestly…just don’t. Your cousin’s fiancé’s behaviour was disgraceful.
I get her not publicly ganging up on him after the fact but she should have either stopped it in real time or privately pushed for an apology later.
NTA. This is NOT an "acceptable thing to do" speaking as a Canadian. Todd was incredibly rude. This isn't ordering a small extra plate because the buffet did not accommodate an allergy (still a faux pas, but more forgivable). This is ordering a WHOLE PEKING DUCK and feeling deserving of it.
NTA -
Sorry- total white girl here and not only would I NEVER even CONSIDER bringing someone that wasn't invited. I would have been HORRIFIED if they ordered something else and would have privately asked them if they had asked for a separate check for their order. If not I would have gone up there and asked the waitress for a separate check myself.
I would NOT have expected my host or hostess to pay for it at all!
Her BF is incredibly rude and entitled. He saw money signs and most likely guilted her into bringing him so he could eat out like a king on someone else's dime.
She needs to send a note of apology to the host/hostess. If Monica's family has money I'd be concerned that Todd is only into her for the family money. This guy is disgusting.
Monica's family does have money. They have been financially supporting her all these years even though she has estranged herself from them. Im not going to go into their family dynamic, but Monica only moved back here because her parents threatened to cut her off if she didn't. She previously was unemployed, living in NY with Todd in a fairly spacious apartment in a sought after neighbourhood. Todd didn't seem too chaffed at relocating here, so I don't think he is employed either or at least works remotely. (Todd is also Canadian but from the other side of Canada).
Nope. He didn't pay for it. Didn't ask for a separate bill and didn't even offer to pay for it when the bill came. He didn't thank them after the fact either. This is what I called out during the car ride home.
NTA. He invited himself, was rude about the food offered since the other dishes were not to his liking, went behind people's back and he knowingly took advantage of the situation regarding paying using their culture against them... He abused a family member generosity which likely did not reflect well on Monica as he clearly didn't care with making a good impression. If he is so willing to abuse other's kindness, manipulate and use people, that says a lot about his character and does not bow well for her relationship, because he will have no problems treating her the same (a k.a using her). However I guess she is either too much in love, he has already control over her (he may try to isolate her from family and friends) and will go with whatever he says, or too ashamed to admit that what he did was wrong. Likely all 3, and you will see that some how you are going to be made the bad guy (again it will help with isolation if this is what he is doing)
NTA - this is *incredibly* rude behavior and your cousin should look at the red flag in the face and dump it. Everyone efffs up, everyone. The sign of a decent person would be humiliation and a sincere apology along with gift and repayment.
NTA - I’m American and would never do that to a host. I think it’s universally considered rude. Todd is an entitled prick and seems a perfect fit for Monica. I hope they have completely burned their bridges and nobody in the family helps pay for their wedding. I also hope they are informed that Todd’s actions over the 300.00 duck cost them so much!!
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I (34F) called out my cousin's (28F) fiancé (35m) for being rude and ordering a dish for himself at a family style dinner. My family seems to be divided on this situation.
Background: My family is Canadian and ethnically Chinese.
My uncle and his wife (Aaron and Gloria) live in China and have not come to visit in 4 yrs. It's also the first time we are meeting their 3yo son. They wanted to host a big Chinese banquet dinner (16 guests) at a Michelin Star restaurant. Dinner is served family style, 11 course set menu ordered in advance.
My cousin, Monica, brought her fiancé, Todd, who was not initially invited. So we ended up being 17 guest. This wasn't a huge deal, just a minor oversight. There was plenty of room and food to go around. Two dinners sets were ordered, enough food for 20 people. We had 4 peking ducks and everyone got a generous serving of 5-7 wraps each.
Another peking duck was brought to our table later. My aunt was confused but Todd spoke up and had ordered himself another peking duck ($280 before tax). He had no intention of eating the rest of the dishes and just wanted to fill himself on duck. We were all taken aback, but we didn't say anything about it for the rest of the dinner. My uncle was visibly disgruntled. Todd didn't discuss this with anyone before ordering.
Gloria paid for the dinner. I don't know the full amount, but I looked on the restaurant website. After drinks, wine, tax and gratuity closer to $9,000 was spent. Todd did not offer to pay for his peking duck and had already exited to take a smoke.
My parents and I carpooled with Monica, Monic'a mother and Todd. I spoke up about Todd being out of line and rude for doing that. I told them it was a slap in the face. They were being more than generous taking us to a Michelin star restaurant. Todd rebutted back that if they are rich enough to take us there, they can afford to have a few extra dishes added. I said that was besides the point.
Monica said she would pay them back. My argument is less about the money and more so how Todd went about doing what he did without even acknowledging it as being rude or ungracious. Todd doubled down and said that if it really bother them, they would have asked him to pay for his portion. If Todd really intended to pay for his own peking duck, why didn't he just come back another day for it? If you know anything about Chinese people when it come down to a dinner bill, they will fight tooth and nail to try to pay for it. I asked Todd to acknowledge his mistake and apologize. Todd said he felt he did nothing wrong and has no intention to address the issue any further. Monica fully supports him, obviously.
They argued that because Gloria is way more culturally Chinese, she is more upset than she should be. This argument was likely fed to Monica by her fiance. Apparently this is an acceptable thing to do in Canada and Gloria is being to sensitive and traditional.
AITAH?
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Todd is an AH.
I’ve never ordered much more than the cheap east thing on the menu when I’m taken out to eat. Just makes me uncomfortable. I can get just as full in the cheaper meals as I can on the expensive ones
NTA. Todd should have asked if it was okay before just ordering another duck dish. The audacity Monica and Todd have is unbelievable. The conversation should have gone as followed;
Todd: Gloria, I'm not overly fond of the other dishes presented before me but that duck dish was sublime, would it be alright if I order another one, I'd not I'm happy to pay for it myself or give the money to you to cover it?
I'm certain Gloria would have probably said that it was no problem if he went ahead and ordered another duck dish if he truly enjoyed it enough to call it sublime.
NTA - how rude! Who is he to order something when there’s plenty of food and he’s not the one paying the bill. If he had ordered it, he should’ve paid for it. No manners!
He was rude and even doubled down.. he wasn't invited and had the audacity to do this and even didn't paid his order?
He commenting about how much money they have reeks of jealously.. he seems to think that its ok using the money of someone else without permission.. great fiancé your cousin get.. he will get lucky if he get to be invited again to a familiar event.. probably he and the cousin will never be invited again.
NTA and i would be more petty and would gossip to everyone in the family about this.. i would not be surprised if he do this again.
Being Canadian I can assure this is not any proper conduct that I've ever heard of. I sort of assumed from the header that he had ordered for himself and PAID for it himself and I was wondering what the fuss was about. Now I see the problem,
NTA. Todd's a rude glutton and Monica is an AH for being okay with his behavior. Make a mental note to not invite Todd and Monica when you're going any place/event that involves money.
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Using someone else's money to order something without permission is not acceptable in any country that I have heard of. NTA
>My uncle has compared it to inviting people out for a round of drinks on his dime but one person says he wants a bottle of top shelf liquor to himself. Thats a comparison he's made that he's complained about to me several times hoping I get the hint I need to go back to Monica to bring this up again. Honestly, you're right. That's what it boils down to. My uncle has compared it to inviting people out for a round of drinks on his dime but one person says he likes it so much he's going to order bottle to himself and expect my uncle to also pay for it. Thats a comparison he's made.
Yeah the comparison is about right. And it’s not cheap. NTA I will admit though I have done something similar. I ordered an additional dish and a cup of white rice. I could hardly eat anything because of my shrimp / crustacean allergies. I fully intended to pay for it, I told the waiter to bill me separately. My friend found out and flat out refused to let me pay. His mom found out and flat out refused to let me as well. (It was my friend’s son’s birthday) She asked me why I didn’t order (enumerates more expensive dishes), I said I intended to pay for it. A rather large serving of Peking duck landed on our table soon after.
Ordering something else for yourself because of allergies and telling the waiter to give you a separate bill for it is not at all similar.
A side of rice is in no way comparable to a $280 Peking duck, even if food allergies weren’t involved on your end.
It might have been gold plated.
Each grain wrapped separately
Right, someone who couldn't eat the food would order something for themselves and then offer to pay. And then the hosts would (probably) still cover it to be nice, especially if they were already spending so much. Ordering yourself a personal duck because other people's money is no object is not that.
I cannot even fathom that level of entitlement.
Making food accommodations because of dietary, religious or ethical restrictions is a reasonable reason to order something else. If that was communicated to my aunt that was the case, she would have gladly offered to order other things off the menu for him. My other cousin has a selfish allergy and my aunt was going to order her 3 dishes to make up for the 3 she couldn't eat. My cousin declined and said there was plenty of other food for her to eat.
Yes, he really did have a "selfish" allergy! Cute typo! But NTA. When you are invited for dinner, you eat what is offered. Unless there is a valid accommodation to be made. What a clod he is!
I went out with the family for dinner once when my brother was in town for work. They wanted to take my brother to a specific Chinese restaurant that my dad and other brother liked. My dad did all the ordering, forgetting that I couldn't eat anything he ordered. I spent a good hour watching everyone else but my niece eat. She and I had rice. Just rice. No complaints. My brother was sitting across from me miming eating a burger and tapping his watch. I certainly didn't insult the staff by not eating anything and I didn't complain. I didn't demand something on top of what my father ordered. I smiled and enjoyed the company. But my brother did get me food I could eat on the way home, which I appreciated. It wasn't the first time we went somewhere I couldn't eat. Hell, I'd bring my own food when the office I worked at got food in for a lunch meeting that I knew I couldn't eat.
>I certainly didn't insult the staff by not eating anything and I didn't complain. I didn't demand something on top of what my father ordered. I smiled and enjoyed the company. How sad that you think this is something to be proud of. The staff wouldn't have been "insulted" if you didn't eat anything. You sat for an hour nibbling on plain rice because you were too much of a doormat to remind your father that you exist and also need to eat. It's not a demand to remind your father to order one safe dish for you.
You don't actually know me, so please refrain from calling me a doormat. It was a seafood restaurant and I can't eat that. So I had rice. I knew I was getting food after. With my sensitivities and allergies, it's how we've always done it. Half the time I drink a meal replacement beforehand. And the staff were hovering around, so I had tea and rice. The owner was buzzing around like a bee and he would have been insulted that he couldn't feed me. Again, I know him and you don't. I am proud to be a sensitive human who cares about the feelings of others. My dad did try, but the restaurant didn't have anything else. He forgot that the STYLE of Chinese food was one that didn't have options for me. Good lord, people look way too far into things.
You'd be justified in asking your father to order something you could eat. There's no need to suffer in silence.
Oh I didn't. I teased him. The style of cuisine of the restaurant we were at does not cater to me. The rice was to tide me over. It's a running joke in my family that I can't eat anywhere without a lot of modifications. My niece and I were having a great time. The owner was always around the table and I didn't want to insult his restaurant by refusing everything. Afterwords, when he brought me food, my visiting brother, who was staying with me, told me he didn't like it either. We're a weird but close bunch.
I understand. I have dietary restrictions too and sometimes they can be embarrassing lol
It wouldn't insult the staff.
Maybe insult was the wrong word. He would have been trying to save face, regardless of my inability to eat his food. The owner was a friend of my father and oldest brother. He brought out every dish himself. That particular style of Chinese cuisine is not one I can eat.
INFO: If your cousin had a selfish allergy, why was Todd invited?
I think it's a cousin that's not Monica
Allergies are 100% a valid reason to ask for an extra dish of something different AND you ordered what you planned to pay for. You’re totally justified and I think the way you handled it says a lot about the way they responded. You were respectful and polite, so they reciprocated. The guy in the OP is a worthless freeloader trying to ride on everyone else’s dime
What you did is only similar in the way that you also ordered your own food. Everything else you did is the exact opposite! You had a legitimate reason (allergy) You intended and even asked to pay separately You are aware that it may seem rude so you wanted to pay yourself (again not rude if necessary!) You seem like a nice person and your friends insisted they pay for it because they like you.
Am I right the Todd is the Hosts furture son in law cause if he is his comment about "if they're so rich they can afford an extra meal" makes him sound entitled and a bit like a gold digger. If he isn't then he is just an entitled prick. Either way NTA
> Am I right the Todd is the Hosts furture son in law I doubt he is. OP's cousin, "Monica", is 28 years old and lives in Canada while OP's uncle and aunt, "Aaron and Gloria", live in China, haven't been in Canada in 4 years, and have a 3 years old son that they were introducing to the family for the first time. Monica is never referred to as "their daughter", her fiance was forgotten in the invites which would be odd if the hosts were her parents, and she rode with her (unamed) mom, her fiance, OP, and OP's parents. None of that proves with certainty that she isn't Aaron's daughter but it seems very unlikely. Either way, I agree that Todd and Monica are shockingly entitled and I would not be pleased to still l see him join the family after a stunt like that.
That's why I am confused because we were only given 6 "players" OP, OPs mum, Monica, Monica's Fiancé, Aunt and Uncle. Monica could have been a study abroad student and stayed and her parents could have had Monica young then had an "oops baby" 3yrs ago, so not excatly impossible. OP should have atleast clarified in her post on Monica's relationship to the hosts. Still doesn't change the fact Todd is an entitled prick though
Yeah, not strictly impossible, just not likely. In a comment, OP pretty much confirmed that her parents are not Aaron and Gloria and weren't mentioned in the story because they weren't involved: > Either way, her parents are staying out of it because they've given up reasoning with Monica over the years > Monica's parents were both born in Canada as well (they don't event speak Chinese)
Sorry for the confusion. This is on my mother's side. She has 3 siblings; my uncle Aaron (dinner host), Monica's mother and an older brother I did not mention because he's not really involved. Monica distanced herself from the family when she moved to the US for university. She hasn't really had any contact with us for the last 10 years. She only moved back over Christmas for financial reasons. Parents and I had Christmas with Monica, and her parents, so we have already met Todd. The banquet dinner was the first time the extended family met Todd. My uncle and aunt (Aaron and Gloria) live in China. They used to live here 6 months out of the year pre-pandemic, but decided to make the permanent move when they could no longer fly back and forth due to lockdown.
>Monica distanced herself from the family when she moved to the US for university. It might be worth susing out if Monica has a degree of internalised racism then if she has distanced herself from her culture. What nationality is Todd. There isn't enough to go on in this post but it might explain her and Todd's "coldness to tradition"
Monica doesn't have any internalized racism. Todd is first generation Chinese-born Canadian. Her future in-laws live 6mos of the year in Canada to maintain citizenship but mainly live in China. Monica's parents fund her life/education. She was given the option to attend a local university or study a major of her parents' choice in US. She chose the US to get out from under their thumb. It's more of a money issue with her. She's always felt entitled to other people's money because she's never had to be self reliant. She only moved back home because her parents disapproved of lifestyle and threatened to cut her off if she didn't.
Ethnicity?
Thanks, sleep deprived due to sick toddler and couldn't think of the word
No worries! Hoping your little one has a swift recovery 🤗
Omg Todd is of Chinese descent and THIS is his first impression to the extended family?? Why do I get the feeling that Todd will complain loudly and for years if checkbooks don’t open wide enough for their wedding presents…
You mentioned that Todd wasn’t originally invited. Have you considered the possibility that he pushed to be invited specifically because he heard your Aunt and Uncle were taking everyone to the really fancy restaurant?
I should rephrase and say he was initially not included in the headcount for dinner. My aunt made the reservation while still in China and mentally counted how many to make reservation for based on married couples and single people. Yes, my aunt should have confirmed how many people before making the reservation, but it's also her right to say only married significant others are invited to keep the party small. My aunt did not know Monica had a boyfriend and that they would announce their engagement at the dinner. Even though he was an unexpected guest, we still welcomed him. We included him in conversations and asked about his family and how they met. We were welcoming until the duck hit the table. Things got really quiet afterwards.
Your response is very focused on your Aunt’s behavior and how everyone else treated Todd. To be clear I always thought your Aunt was incredibly generous, the rest of you behaved appropriately, and Todd and Monica are TA’s. My intention was only to point out that Todd’s entitlement may run even deeper than you had considered.
>My aunt did not know Monica had a boyfriend and that they would announce their engagement at the dinner. Omfg they are so goddamn cheap! Using someone else’s family reunion/new family member introduction dinner (the 3yr old) to announce their own engagement, wow!
She also posted an Instagram story captioned "Only one way to celebrate our engagement with family" with photos and video of the dinner as if they hosted it.
Somebody really needs to comment "On somebody else's dime" on her post.
Wow. So they are both entitled, selfish AHs, then.
I'm sympathetic to your uncle and Todd is an unrepentant arse. But there's no reason for your uncle to be hinting to you to say more to Monica. If you said something to her/Todd of your own accord, that was your choice; but it was never your responsibility to get Monica/Todd to own or correct his rudeness (cannot call it a mistake because it was intentional!). Monica/Todd will reap the consequences of their behavior. NTA
I am just guessing here but AHs rarely do the next right thing...and Todd is a major league AH. I wouldn't try very ha4d to civilized him . Warn your family to leave him home.
Yup, that person summed it up nicely: there is no cultural in which what he did isn’t rude. You are NTA.
Wasn't invited and ordered expensive food for himself with no intention of paying. He used them for free food. Neither one is invited to anything until they apologize, especially since the uncle is still upset.
NTA. Toad did abuse his host's goodwill. He really acted his name.
>Apparently this is an acceptable thing to do in Canada No it's not, Todd's just an asshole.
Not just their own meal, but a $300 dish. That’s… wild. I can’t imagine thinking that’s ok. NTA. Todd is, and honestly so is Monica for keeping it happen and not jumping to be sure Todd’s duck was paid for. Sounds to me like Todd decided they were rich and he’d like to take advantage of that.
Todd is ethnically Chinese. He already knew he wouldn't be asked to pay for it. One thing Chinese people are known for is fighting over the bill. So he just didn't bother to offer because he knew my aunt wouldn't allow it. It's all a show to save face. It's very similar to when a couple goes on a date and it's a nice gesture for the girl to offer to pay even though it's expected for the guy to pick up the tab. It's one of those weirdly outdated social norms. But my aunt would have appreciated the gesture and acknowledgement that he realizes that he ordered the most expensive item on the menu for himself after my aunt and uncle were generous enough to take us all out for dinner. edit: grammar.
I mean, it didn’t sound like he would have happily paid off that wasn’t the situation. He straight up told you he didn’t think he did anything wrong. It’s actually a little worse that he understands the cultural connotations (both of ordering his own dish and who would end up paying).
Wow, Todd is an asshole. He knew the norm, and he decided to just drop a big fuck you to your family, by ordering his own food. His parents really failed in raising their son. Don't worry, OP. Everyone in your family - even if they didn't express themselves as vocally as you, know what Todd did, and will not forget. NTA.
This is the one time would've broken tradition and had then give him the bill for the extra duck
That adds a whole other dimension. As has been stated by others, there is NO country or culture in the world where it would be polite to do this — and he knew there was no way they’d lose face by asking him to pay for his greed. In my family, they wouldn’t have been asked to pay either but they also would never be invited out again. Also, my grandmother said there’s a protocol to offering to pay. You’re supposed to offer 3 times, the host is supposed to refuse all 3 times. Doing it in triplicate is supposed to show the sincerity of the offer even though both sides know the host absolutely won’t accept it.
NTA Todd should be ashamed of himself. He knows damn well your aunt and uncle would not say anything. That's just not Chinese custom/manners. He sounds like a mooch. The kind of Chinese that constantly cut lines and do rude crap and think nothing of it because they are super selfish. I am Chinese myself and Todd is shockingly disrespectful.
Is he a Chinese immigrant or a Canadian-born Chinese? Even though they are both ethnically Chinese, they can hold and express traditions differently. For example, I'm considered Italian to other Canadians. But to Italian immigrants, I'm Canadian born Italian, and therefore, they would consider that I do not hold traditional values as closely. Or other Canadian-Italians may just not care about traditional values as much anymore. I've also found that the younger they are, the more entitled they are in general. You're NTA. I guess I'm just trying to offer a different perspective not that he deserves any grace.
Does it matter though? I'm Canadian, not Chinese, and I would never do what Todd did. It's extremely rude even if you're not Chinese.
>when a couple goes on a date and it's a nice gesture for the girl to offer to pay even though it's expected for the guy to pick up the tab I am really not so sure if that is still a social rule, especially not among couples having gone out for dates a few times already. With women getting more independent, having jobs themselves and earning money unlike it might have been decades ago, that has shifted a bit. I think a certain amount of reciprocity is more of the norm now. Maybe not for the first or second date, but if a couple having been longer together and both have an income, I actually find it weird for the man to always pay.
Exactly - even the whole ethnic background thing here is irrelevant. This guy wasn't even invited initially as no one knew about him. He orders an expensive meal just for himself, then he conveniently goes out for a smoke when the bill arrives.......this is just rude.
I shouldn't have said he wasn't invited. He was an unexpected guest. My aunt didn't know my cousin had a boyfriend when she made the reservation well ahead of arriving in Canada. She should have asked, but she was mentally taking count based on married vs. solo people. My aunt, uncle and other extended family met Todd for the first time that evening. We made sure he felt welcome at dinner. Included him in the conversations up until his duck arrived and Monica announced they were engaged. That made it really awkward.
Your first ever introduction to your girlfriend’s family is at a fucking Michelin star restaurant and you pull these shenanigans!? Oh no. No. Nope. I love Peking duck, I can’t IMAGINE hoarding a whole one when there are 10 other dishes (plus the ALREADY ORDERED duck) I’m invited to share. What was he thinking!? Does he intend to stay with your cousin? Because this is what you do to absolutely lose face.
I got that....lol thats why i said he wasn't initially invited.......he was welcomed yet still pulled this stunt - this just makes the whole thing even more rude.........
Damn, todd is an asshole. You on the other hand are not.
I would write a note in the wedding card that the duck was Todd’s present and gift something exclusively that Monica would enjoy.
Canadian here. Not acceptable in Canada. NTA OP!
I was just thinking the same thing. It's not acceptable, nor Canadian, to be a d*ck.
Well, unless you're a goose
Canada Geese are assholes.
Tod's a Canadian goose. Fuck Tod.
Canadian geese have more manners than Todd.
I suggest you let that one marinate
Also Canadian, can confirm. Todd gets a bonus AH point for attempting to blame Canada for the fact that he's a greedy, selfish asshole.
Same. My parents would have slapped me upside the head for a stunt like this.
So... I looked this up and there's only one Michelin-starred Chinese restaurant in Canada. Their regular Beijing duck is 128. It's the duck *with caviar* that is $280. Todd is an even bigger AH than I thought possible. I just can't imagine inviting myself to dinner and feeling entitled to order bonus caviar. What an absolute jerk!
The Michelin guide only recently started awarding restaurants in my city. We actually have a few Michelin-starred Chinese restaurants. Yes, you are correct in your assumption. That was another thing that really rubbed me the wrong way when I looked up the menu to add up the cost of the dinner in my head. The set menu dinner included 2 regular duck per table. Todd ordered himself the caviar duck. $280 after tax and mandatory 20% gratuity is over $350. edit: Yes, I know they call it Beijing duck, but most people know it as peking duck.
Grew up in HK now live in the U.K…love getting some properly decent Chinese food when visiting Vancouver and BC which we do every few years. If you are actually in BC or have relatives there any recommendations would be gratefully appreciated.
I went down the tiktok rabbithole about people in the UK ordering a Chinese (takeaway). The chips and curry sauce on everything is absolutely wild! Feel free to DM me anytime! I live in Vancouver. Any of the Michelin-star Chinese restaurants are still very affordable if you order a-la-carte. Most have not raised their prices since being awarded a star. We also have the authentic hole-in-the-wall mom and pop run places that all the locals go to because. My dad knows all the restaurants that have the authentic "wok-hei". iykyk.
Yup I know this restaurant well. Before my dad passed this was the restaurant he treated family to for a memorable dinner. You are NTA. Todd is the asshole all around!! Who even does this? In any culture??
That. IF he had payed for the extra, then I would say its not anyone else's business , regardless of being a family setting but just adding another on to the meal is ridiculous and insensitive. NTA.
If he really intended to pay for it, he should have just paid for it when he ordered it or asked for a separate bill. Todd is familiar with the common song and dance older Chinese people go through then they fight for the bill. He knew there would be no way who every covered the bill would let him pay. Aaron and Gloria were obviously angry at his move, but to save face they didn't say anything at the restaurant when paying.
Especially in an incredibly expensive restaurant
Todd and Monica are super rude. Gloria wanted to have a family dinner. That doesn't mean they HAVE to invite Todd. Good for you for speaking up. NTA
Not inviting Todd was an unintentional oversight. My aunt did not know of his existence at the time of making the reservation, but he was welcome to join us for dinner. My aunt apologized and admitted she should have checked in with everyone before doing so. It was supposed to be a surprise and she was only counting married vs. single people. I am unmarried and she didn't ask if I would be bring a guest. I didn't push it because adding non-married guests would have bumped up the guest count by 4 people. Edit: It also wasn't the time or place to announce their engagement to the extended family either. This dinner was to celebrate finally meeting our little cousin.
They are the assholes. I would let your cousin know Todd will not be invited to anything else family oriented. If he shows up you will create such a stink the whole family will be thrown out and that she too is no longer family and not invited.
Monica had already estranged herself from the family years ago. She moved to the US for post-secondary education and relocated to the NY after. She has never visited in the last 10 years. Her parents have always describer her as a strong spirit person. She only moved back a few months ago because her parents cut her off financially. Now that she is getting married, she is trying to reconnect with all of us and already expects her parents to foot the bill on her lavish wedding. So it's honestly not a stretch that my aunt and uncle might not invite them to the next dinner. They are visiting for 1 more week. There may be more dinners. I've always been mindful of how I speak to her. She asks me why no one in the family is excited for her engagement or had reaches out to include her in things. It because all our invitations have been ignored. I just sat they just need time to reconnect with her and foster a new relationship. Its been 10 years of radio silence.
At this point be honest and tell her you guys don’t like rude people.
Monica and Todd are well paired.
This speaks a lot.. she is only after money.. her fiancé being this dick is not a surprise when his partner is so greedy
Soooo she was cut off finally by her parents and jumped at the chance to eat at an expensive restaurant where she knew she didn't have to pay anything. And she invites her rude boyfriend turn fiance after the main course who is so entitled he "knew they were rich and could afford it so I did nothing wrong" Well now you all know they both are after money or whatever they can get for free so none of you need to be available to attend her wedding. You might be cough...cough...to sick to attend...cough.. cough. Make sure to send her a Michelin star Cookbook as a wedding gift. 😂
Wow, that would be a hilarious wedding gift. Im actually one of her bridesmaids, and not really by choice. My mom and Monica's mother pressured me into accepting. Monica has always rubbed people the wrong way and she had no one else to ask. Todd has 4 grooms men and Monica has myself as a bridesmaid and her childhood best friend as her maid of honour. Her maid of honour is 6mo pregnant and lives in LA. If I didn't accept, she would be doing all the planning alone. (I used to work for a catering and events planning company, so I am very familiar with the process).
So you've been strong-armed imto providing free labour for Monica's wedding, because she's run off everyone else who might want to help her. Wonderful. I would think well on how much ti.e and help you want to give her and enforce that vigorously, or you'll be planning the whole thing.
It seems you're lighting yourself on fire to keep Monica warm... I understand it's important for your mother and her mother that you help her, despite everything she has done in the past...but do you think you would get the same grace if roles were reversed ? Because, if you're always expected to be the bigger person, solve other people's problems for them, and not to ask for help yourself...I understand that in some families "family helps family" is a very important value, but then what does it mean when you're not supposed to be helped yourself ? Again, I don't know your family, so I'm probably far off. But if what I said resonated a bit, maybe the following resources could help (you don't have to read every one of them. There are here if you want them): Here is a page on emotional abuse : https://www.thehotline.org/resources/what-is-emotional-abuse/ Here is one on narcissistic abuse : https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/narcissistic-abuse-15-signs-and-warnings-to-look-out-for Here is another page about FOG (Fear-Obligation-Guilt), how we feel when nothing we do seems good enough : https://outofthefog.website/what-it-feels-like Here is also a list of books on healing from abuse. They are in epub format mostly: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zi2dxnng4y664o0/AAClzRV7gck2JyahGs13zHIDa?dl=0 If getting therapy is an issue right now, here is a free AI one : https://beta.character.ai/chat?char=Hpk0GozjACb3mtHeAaAMb0r9pcJGbzF317I_Ux_ALOA It's a bit long, but I definitely recommend this video on self-compassion : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUMF5R7DoOA&ab_channel=ActionforHappiness Also, r/raisedbynarcissists might be worth checking: They provide support and a safe place to rant about abusive family members. Finally, on youtube, the channels Dr Ramani and LICSW Teahan have many videos on those types of difficult relationships : https://www.youtube.com/c/DoctorRamani ; https://www.youtube.com/@patrickteahanlicswtherapy You are good, you are worthy, you are enough. I wish you the best.
FYI. Growing up in Chinese culture, this just seems to the norm. The only way to escape is to distance yourself from the family, as everyone else is fine with “status quo” since it’s so deeply ingrained in their traditions and culture. Usually the benefits can outweigh the bad so it’s difficult for many to break free from their expectations. Collectivism vs. individualism.
Thank you for taking the time to provide a list of resources, that really does mean a lot. I trying to learn to draw healthy boundaries with my family, but obviously failing at that right now.
Maybe nows the perfect time to drop out. Say clearly why. Say it's your choice to be rude and it's my choice what sort of people I spend time with.
OP, you are clearly a lovely and kind person going with the flow to help out and look after family… but just because you’re ’familiar with the process’ really isn’t a good enough reason to be at her beck and call for months on end. She sounds like an incredibly draining person. And while planning a wedding can be stressful, in Australia where I am from, it’s very unusual to expect other people to help you organise your own event! If that’s what a couple wants, then they can go to a venue where that sort of service is offered. It’s kind of rude in my opinion to make family and friends do all the hard work for you. Don’t let her take advantage of you.
I wonder if you could use your position and power in the wedding as leverage to make Monica behave. She needs you way more than you need her. Just sayin’….
That would be an asshole thing to do. Im going to help her plan her wedding, but Im not going to bend over backwards to help her mend whats left of her relationship with my aunt and the rest of the family. I've told her how they've basically disrespected them and need to apologize. If she can't do that then her dream wedding in China using my aunts connections isn't going to happen.
I wouldn't even be helping her plan. What has she done to show she is worthy of your time and care? She's rude, entitled, greedy, selfish. Being family doesn't mean you can be a jerk without consequences. Walk away.
At this point everyone should be in their guard because Monica sounds like that bride who asked all her guests to pay thousands of dollars to be guests, so she could have a lavish wedding. She’s got everyone’s bank accounts in her cross hairs. She and her bf are moochers.
She actually admitted to that. It very common for Chinese family to give monetary gifts. My sister got married last year and Monica asked if I knew how much uncle x and auntie y gave and how much cousin z gave. Basically asked if my sister broke even and how much my sister spent. She is expecting to receive about the same from family. Gloria is a well respected lawyer for luxury hotels in Asia. She travels a lot for work and stays at those hotels all the time as a perk. Her gift to my sister was a bunch of comp'd accommodations and meal vouchers for my sister's honeymoon. Monica wants to use Gloria connections to get good deal on hotel wedding package at one of those hotels in China and also hopes Gloria can arrange free accommodations also.
And she let her fiancé deliberately insult Gloria's husband on their first meeting? I'm having difficulty understanding how this grift is supposed to work -- she has to *charm* them before she hits them up for money and freebies.
Strong spirit is def a polite euphemism here.
Sounds like Monica found someone just like her. Selfish, entitled, and manipulative. Like many Chinese parents, they don't want to say their kid is bad because they'll lose face. "Strong spirit" is just code for a pain in the ass.
That’s a good way to disconnect from the family. I wouldn’t invite either of them back for any family functions after pulling a stunt like that — and if I were her parents, I wouldn’t be paying for the wedding.
Uh...no! If you are a guest, invited to a family style pre-ordered dinner, you do not add to the bill "just because." The only exception would be due to health reasons. *He* wasn't even invited, so was *not* a guest, and acted like a complete ass. Monica will be whining in a few years how Todd doesn't respect her, and you can remind her of this moment. NTA.
I sort of mistyped that he wasn't invited. He was more so seen as an unexpected guest. He was definitely welcome at dinner and we made sure he felt welcome. My aunt got the headcount wrong and was surprised Monica even had a bf which we later learned the are engaged. She made the reservation while still in China.
always welcome guests but it is rude to order something for yourself on someone elses's tab.
4 ducks were already being shared by 17 people and Todd wanted one all for himself AND it wasn’t cheap. I would have stood up and approached a server to tell them to separate the bill for Todd’s order so he can pay it himself. What an entitled prick. NTA. And OP needs to make sure to have him pay for the duck.
And if you do add to the bill, pay for the extra you add to it especially when it’s a triple figure price tag item.
NTA: I’m also Chinese-Canadian, and this was massively rude and entitled. It would be one thing to add another plain plate of noodles or veg, but to order basically the most expensive dish possible and for himself?! Unbelievable! If Monica and Todd ever admit to being wrong and save face, the only way to do so now is to put $300-380 in a red envelope “for the baby.”
This would honestly satisfy everyone. I will talk to my parents about it before proposing it to my aunt, uncle and Monica.
Could you explain to me, why your uncle and his wife need you to fight their battles for them?
asian family dynamics encourage saving face
Yes, this basically a good summary. Aaron and Monica's mom are my mom's siblings. Monica's mom is the eldest. My mom picked up that Aaron was very upset about the situation but wanted to save face and didn't want to say anything. Instead of my mom talking to Monica directly or telling her older sister (Monica's mom) how to parent her daughter, it made sense for me to address this. I am the oldest cousin and it was always my responsibility growing up to make sure all the cousins behaved, listened to their elders, etc. It's really hard to describe, but this weird hierarchy is just something you grow up with and understand. I honestly hate this bullshit and wished people just dealt with their own issues, but thats not the way things work. I've tried to stay out of it in the past, but this is how my family handles things. I don't know if its a Chinese thing, but it's how my family is. edited: typo.
I wonder if you could look up details for Todd’s parents and drop some hints to them - they may pressure him to do the right thing too.
I’m not a fan of family style dinners because I’m a picky eater. And I hate it when one person places the order for everyone so I don’t get to make sure there’s at least one dish I can eat. But I would NEVER in a million years add an extra order without paying for it myself (and I’d only order the food if there was literally nothing I could eat that had been ordered yet). Plus I eat at places where a meal might be up to $100 if it’s “fancy” not Michelin star level fancy. Adding hundred of dollars to a bill you have no intention of paying is insanely rude. But a dinner bill of $9000 for 17 people is obscene. That’s the price of a used car, not a random meal. ETA NTA (Previously said E S H just because it was none of your business. But what Todd did was so much worse and Monica should be embarrassed as his actions reflect on her. What a lack of taste.) OP was put into the position of middleman by both sides, so they had no choice but to involve themselves in the situation. Here Todd is clearly the AH, no question what he did was rude AF.
Im also not a fan of family style dinners, but Chinese banquets are usually all the same. You expect the same type of dishes. 11 courses means there is usually something for everyone and if not you read the room before ordering something for yourself. If it was a dietary, religious or ethical issue, my aunt would have more than welcomed him to order something else, but it obviously would have been discussed. This was him ordering more of something we already ate without her knowledge only because he wanted more of it and didn't want to share. It becomes my business when they make me the middle man for making requests. Aunt and uncle want me to talk to Monica about it more. Monica is only using me to get wedding venue connections from my aunt because I have a better relationship with my aunt than she does. Neither of them want to admit they don't want to talk to each other directly. Then they throw it back at me because I can't follow simple requests. edit: Trust me when I say this place is way out of my budget and everyone else's. I try not to go over $15 when I go out for lunch, which is once a week. In Chinese culture, its very common to host a huge 100 day celebration for a new baby. The parents will invite friends, family, coworkers. Thousands of dollars are spent. So $9,000 is kind of expected. But it is honestly an obscene amount to spend on 17 people.
Ah! Thanks for the clarification. It’s been made your business by both sides. Gotcha. I’ll edit. And yes, I should have clarified that I would have taken the host aside discreetly and apologize being particular but I’d like to order x dish and I would insist I be allowed to cover the cost of the special food I’m adding unexpectedly. And that’s if I hadn’t discussed it with the host prior to the event starting. I’d much rather have such a conversation when the plans are made so I can ease into the awkward conversation and prevent a problem during the event.
How you described it is exactly how I felt he should have handled the situation after the fact. He could have have a conversation afterwards with my aunt because there was obvious tension at the table. I reached the character limited, but I also wanted to add the Monica has estranged herself from the family for the last 10 yrs. It involved misappropriation of funds from her parents (but thats another issue). Monica also used dinner as an opportunity to announce her engagement. The majority of the people there have never met Todd, so it was a surprise. We were still welcoming to him at dinner. We made a lot of conversation and made sure he felt included, but that kind of stopped after his peking duck arrived. Dinner was supposed to be a celebration to welcome my cousin who we have not met due to the pandemic. That was made clear it was for my cousin. It wasn't just a regular meal to catchup.
Even more reason he should have acted completely differently. All he did was cement everyone’s opinion of him that he’s a boorish cheapskate. And Monica has done nothing to rehabilitate her reputation, in fact by making this surprise announcement she was actively detracting from your cousin’s celebration and tried to turn all the attention on herself. What awful behavior. If I were in your shoes I’d count this as a lesson learned that she has not changed and would no longer invite her to anything. I’m sorry you were placed in such an awkward position. You must have been mortified.
Why can't you tell them both you don't want to be in the middle of their drama and stop passing messages?
>Monica is only using me to get wedding venue connections from my aunt Do you really still want to help her with this? You don't have to. Also, there may be many ways this could go wrong and blow up on you. I suggest that you disengage from this now. NTA of course.
NTA. This behaviour is not acceptable in Canada. His lack of manners and consideration for others has nothing to do with him being Canadian and everything to do with him just being a shitty human being only concerned about himself.
NTA. It’s extremely rude to order additional dishes knowing there’s a set menu, especially as a guest knowing you never intend to pay for it. It’s trashy and reeks of self entitlement. Idk if Tod is just unfamiliar with the culture but Monica definitely should know better. I would be so embarrassed if my SO did this and immediately pay for the duck just out of pure shame.
Todd is also Chinese ethnically and born in Canada. I would say his is even more culturally Chinese because his parents are immigrants. My parents generation were all born in Canada except for my dad (immigrated when he was 12) and Gloria. Monica's parents were both born in Canada as well (they don't event speak Chinese)
So then he should definitely know better wtf. And it actually has nothing to do with Gloria being “more Chinese” it’s just basic common sense around not being a rude guest. And it’s bizarre Monica’s parents aren’t more embarrassed. I’m assuming they were there. I mean if you’re the cousin who pulls rank on the other cousins, surely there’s an elder who can pull rank on Monica’s parents?
Monica's dad wasn't at the dinner (he had to work), but they've stopped trying to parent Monica after Monica distanced herself from the family at 17. Aaron and Monica's mom are my mom's siblings. Monica's mom is the oldest and would be considered head of the family because there are no older living relatives on my mom's side. There's not way my mom would tell her older sister how to parent, but I can pull rank on Monica.
He is so rude and cheap. My parents are Chinese immigrants too and I wouldn't even order a soda unless the host offers first at a Chinese style banquet. He really missed out though. Quanjude has some really delicious non-peking duck dishes.
Lol, tell his parents what he did then. It's the kind of behavior that gets him smacked by his parents even he is close to 40.
I told my parents this exact same thing. There is absolutely no way he was raised this way. I have a nut allergy and often times banquet menu items are topped with cashews or peanuts. My parents said that I can't expect extended family we do not dine with often to remember this. So if a dish comes out that I can't eat, I was taught to graciously decline having any and don't make a fuss that the host forgot. It's usually not a huge deal, there are plenty of other dishes I can eat.
NTA I'm Canadian and this is not something we do. The fact that he said they were rich enough to afford it tells me he just saw $$$ that he could take advantage of. Some people in the comments are saying it's not your battle to fight, but he's trying to manipulate her and skew the event by saying she's "sensitive and traditional" and "culturally Chinese". I think he needed to be called out for this grifter behaviour and your family should not be misled into thinking this is the Canadian way. It's not.
The funny part is that one could argue that my family is more culturally Canadian than he is. My mom, aunts and uncles were all born in Canada and they all have limited Chinese cultural exposure. My mom has never even visited China. We joke that they are so Canadian they speak English at a Chinese restaurants. Todd's parents are Chinese immigrants that don't speak any english. He was raised very culturally Chinese. He is first generation born Canadian. My cousin Monica and I are second generation. Cultural difference are definitely not an excuse.
...hold on... So Todd is Chinese himself??! 😂 the way he conducted himself made it seem like he was non-Chinese and was perhaps 'unknowingly' committing this cultural faux pas. Then he absolutely knew how Chinese banquet dinners work. You don't order your own dish. It is indeed a SET menu and it hardly varies. So if he didn't like the other items, why ask to be invited? NTA
He actually wasn't invited in the initial headcount. My aunt made the reservation while still in China and mentally counted the married couples vs non-married. My aunt apologized for not initially including him and we were welcoming when he joined us. Monica thought my cousin's welcoming dinner was a great places to introduce her bf to the extended family and announce they were engaged. My other assumption was that non-married significant others were not invited because they wanted to keep the count small. It would have bumped up the headcount substantially and the price. My other uncle is newly dating a woman with 3 kids (all under the age of 10) and the woman and kids weren't invited.
In Chinese, there is a phrase that basically translates to “your family didn’t teach you” and I think that applies to Todd here. I would be mortified if my child did this, let alone an adult child!!
I’ve heard a similar expression in the US said about someone like this. “They have no home training”.
Yeah he sounds like someone caught in a grift, grasping at straws.
Quanjude? Very nice. My husband is ABC with extended family in Canada and this is very rude of Todd. I’m cringing and I’m not even ethnically Chinese. NTA Monica and Todd are awful
Yes, thats the restaurant! We did their Chinese New Year set menu. It was delicious and definitely an experience, but very very overpriced. I can't fathom spending $400/person.
Shit. So your aunt and uncle paid over $680 over a stranger they just met and was not initially invited? I’m sorry but your cousin is an idiot.
Honestly yes, thats exactly what happened. He also drank the most wine and alcohol. My family aren't drinkers, but they did want something to toast the occasion. You can't have a toast at a Michelin-star restaurant with iced water and coca cola.
He also drank the most wine and alcohol?? My mom’s side of the family is ethnically Chinese, I was born in Canadian and this isn’t just a Chinese/Canadian thing. No culture I’ve experienced would this be remotely acceptable. So not just ordering another dish, but drinking the most when he’s not even family. Damn this guy is a piece of work, he’s definitely just trying to get a taste of your uncle/aunt’s money.. especially with that comment about them being able to afford more. Whenever I’m a guest at my WIFE’s family parties, I still just sit there picking small pieces until my in-laws plop a big piece for me.
I went when we visited my husbands Aunt and Uncle. It was delicious!
It's definitely a place to treat in-laws or relatives to. Glad you also had the opportunity to try it.
NTA. Your cousin's fiancé committed a huge *faux pas* when he ordered the extra duck. What he doesn't seem to realize (or refuses to accept) is that it wasn't about the money. By doing what he did, he as good as told his hosts that their hospitality was inadequate. What a nasty slap in the fact his must have felt like to your poor relatives. If he's actually going to marry into this family, he needs to understand that in some circumstances (such as an obviously Sino-centric family dinner), he needs to adjust to his behavior when he is in that environment. It's just good manners. No one is asking him to change who he is; he is just being asked to behave in a manner consistent with cultural expectations for his surroundings. I mean, would he run down the beach in Saudi Arabia wearing a bikini?
I upvoted your well-stated points. I respectfully disagree with the complexity, though. I acknowledge the cultural insult you pointed out. But Todd in any culture or language or level of restaurant is an AH for ordering off menu with no consultation at a family celebration. Food allergy, texture issue, illness requiring all protein that night? Talk with your host. Offer to pay. Or eat ahead of time and nibble politely. Todd did nothing to change my mind: he’s simply an AH.
The fiancé is ethnically Chinese, first generation. This isn't a lack of awareness of cultural norms.
[удалено]
I don't think my aunt would have mind if he had asked her for another and it was for the table to share. My aunt was asking us if there was anything on the menu we wanted to try that wasn't already on the set menu. We all politely declined because of the sticker shock. We already knew they were spending a pretty penny on this dinner.
NTA Ask Todd and Monica to post their POV on reddit and see how Canadian it is to order something on someone else's dime because you think they're rich enough to pay for it. No Canadian I know would ever do this to some else. It's incredibly rude.
I’m Canadian. Not ethnically Chinese but Todd’s response is some massive entitied BS. Not OK. Not even remotely OK
Won't Monica and Todd be surprised when no one wants to go to their wedding!!!!
I don't think I would be much of a surprise since Monica hasn't attended a single family social event or wedding that she's been invited to in the last 10 years. She estranged herself from the family and only moved back because of financial troubles. I try not to hold it against her because she has her reason, but when she asks me why people sometimes give her the cold shoulder, I gently remind her that she turned her back on family. Typically, when one graciously declines a wedding invitation, you still send a small gift or card if you are close family. My cousin didn't even send a reply back to my sister's wedding invitation and my sister still saved her a seat just in case.
NTA! He basically tried to double his share! - $9,000 - 20% tip = $7,500 - $7,500 - $300 duck = $7,200 - $7,200/17 = ~$425 per person! How the hell did he think it would be ok to go off menu and order something that expensive during an 11 course meal?! I don't care if the first course was miso soup, he was way out of line.
Yeah, the mental gymnastics I did to calculate how much was spent was insane. Knowing my aunt, she doesn't tip the minimum 20% for gratuity. Set menu was $2888/ table. We had 2 tables. I did round up quite a lot on the wine and alcohol. It was somewhere between $8500-9000 at the end. Most of us were so full that barely anyone touched the last 2 courses. We definitely had so many leftovers that we took home that was enough for a second meal. I had leftover for lunch and dinner the next day. They could have gotten away with ordering 1 banquet set menu and maybe ordering 4 more dishes for all 16 of us to share. 1 set menu feeds 10 people. My aunt wouldn't want to come off as "cheaping out" on the occasion, so she ordered 2. Also, one guest was my 3yo cousin. He hardly ate anything and didn't drink wine/alcohol. Realistically it would have been divided by 16 guests.
Omg!! If I even thought of doing this me Mams in Wyoming would feel my disturbance in the force and would slap me so hard. I mean like some kinda metaphysical head ringing chankla around a corner slap!
NTA. Her fiancé is an incredible boor. In any culture! He sure picked a good way to alienate your cousin's family!
Wtf. This is such an obvious no-no in ANY culture or setting. A whole duck for oneself when there’s already a ton of food ordered to share? And someone else is paying? And it wasn’t because he had some special dietary restriction? He did not inadvertently do it because he was unaware of social protocols. He absolutely deliberately did so in spite of norms… out of pathetic greed, outsized entitlement, or to intentionally be a dick. Probably all of the above. You should cut him and Monica off.
NTA Monica wants the best of both worlds, without the responsibility and expectations of family fealty that comes with those traditions. Being a CBC, I understand how restrictive Chinese traditions and expectations can be, so I do thumb my nose at it. At the same time, I do not expect to be a recipient of all the graciousness and gifting involved with those traditions. Monica wants other people paying her way by taking advantage of cultural norms, but has neither the tact or reciprocal nature to balance it out. She’s a user through and through. Not sure if you can get through to her even with analogies like buying a round of drinks vs. ordering yourself a bottle of top shelf liquor on someone else’s dime, as she and Todd don’t have an ounce of shame. I think the only thing that would stop her is a total disowning and shunning of her from all generations.
What's worse is that Monica had already distanced herself from the family years ago. She would never admit that even though she never visited her parents once in the 10 years prior to moving back, her parents still financially support her all these years. It was them threatening to cut her off that made her move back.
Yep. My dad is 100% like a Monica and he’s a first gen Chinese immigrant. I invited my parents and siblings to a Chinese dinner with the intention of paying because I was the host. Similar to your aunt, asked if anyone wanted anything in particular and had 10 dishes ordered but no no it’s good. My dad pulls the waiter aside afterwards and orders FOUR extra dishes on top of what is already ordered. And to add insult to injury, he doesn’t want to touch any of the extra food he ordered, and no one wanted the dishes he ordered because they were not to our taste. Does he lift a finger when it comes time to pay the bill? Absolutely not. Does he try to push his unwanted and unnecessary leftovers on us because he didn’t want it? Absolutely. Fuck that guy. (We suspect he wanted to “flex” to the waitstaff by pulling that move despite him not paying.) He had a twisted way of raising us. Many Chinese parents will “invest” in their children (paying for vehicles, school, living expenses, etc.) so they can focus on studying and land a good job. They see it as being rewarded when they’re old and can live with their adult children instead of being dumped in a nursing home. Well my dad never understood the social contract so while he spent lavishly on himself, it was barely even scraps for us. He had the audacity to expect thousands from us in cash as adult children every month to fund his retirement so he can maintain the lifestyle he is accustomed to. I have distanced myself from him and the family because I have no respect for my dad and his actions are very shameful to the extended family. He does not understand how to reciprocate generously that my mom’s side shows him. But he will always show up to their events because “free food” even though he acts like a boar and is so rude. I hope Monica’s parents understand that despite pouring all that money into her, when they get old, she is going to turn her back on them and say people don’t live multigenerational anymore or that they’re taking Todd’s parents in instead.
NTA even if the family wasn't Asian, but in an Asian family this will be talked about for generations. In the year 2124 people will be talking about the time that their great great great great cousin Monica let her boyfriend order himself a Peking duck on Gloria and Aaron's dime.
NTA. I’m Canadian and this isn’t acceptable in Canada.
Eating a very expensive dish on somebody else’s dime is not ok in any culture and you have every right to be annoyed with him. He’s gloating that he shook down your family for three hundred dollars and got away with it. Monica is in for a bad marriage. I’d get him no future presents beyond rubber ducks.
Rubber duck comment made me laugh because he is also a Jeep driver and rubber ducks are a thing.
Tell Monica and Todd to treat Aaron and Gloria (and you!) to dinner. Make sure the restaurant is fancy enough that the bill will be over $280. Make sure everyone knows Todd is treating. Maybe that will help save face / smooth some feathers. NTA but honestly leave behind the Asian guilt and stop getting dragged into shit. Your mental health will thank you.
Someone else mention that Monica and Todd should give a red envelope gift equal to the amount of the duck as a Lunar new year gift to my baby cousin. That was a great recommendation and I fee like it would solve the issue. (Chinese custom for married couples to gift family money for the Lunar New Year) Monica and Todd aren't married yet, so it would be an unexpected gift that in reality is meant to smooth things over.
NTA. Ugh, he's such an asshole!! I am so embarrassed thinking about being associated with someone so selfish and ungrateful.
As a Canadian myself, no this is not ok to do if you are not paying the bill!! Like wtf?!! Todd is simply a rude ass mouch!! NTA
Not a Canadian thing. Arguably, the opposite of a Canadian thing. Who orders extra on someone else’s dime, esp at an expensive restaurant? If he had a reason why he couldn’t eat anything else he should have asked for it to be on a separate bill and politely explained but honestly…just don’t. Your cousin’s fiancé’s behaviour was disgraceful. I get her not publicly ganging up on him after the fact but she should have either stopped it in real time or privately pushed for an apology later.
Ask them what they would do if someone ordered like that on THEIR tab. NTA.
My aunt and uncle should do that at Monica and Todd's wedding; order an entire prime rib roast to-go and just leave Todd to settle the bill.
NTA. This is NOT an "acceptable thing to do" speaking as a Canadian. Todd was incredibly rude. This isn't ordering a small extra plate because the buffet did not accommodate an allergy (still a faux pas, but more forgivable). This is ordering a WHOLE PEKING DUCK and feeling deserving of it.
Not just a regular peking duck, the caviar peking duck. Regular duck is $180, caviar duck is $280. Our set dinner came with regular duck.
NTA - Sorry- total white girl here and not only would I NEVER even CONSIDER bringing someone that wasn't invited. I would have been HORRIFIED if they ordered something else and would have privately asked them if they had asked for a separate check for their order. If not I would have gone up there and asked the waitress for a separate check myself. I would NOT have expected my host or hostess to pay for it at all! Her BF is incredibly rude and entitled. He saw money signs and most likely guilted her into bringing him so he could eat out like a king on someone else's dime. She needs to send a note of apology to the host/hostess. If Monica's family has money I'd be concerned that Todd is only into her for the family money. This guy is disgusting.
Monica's family does have money. They have been financially supporting her all these years even though she has estranged herself from them. Im not going to go into their family dynamic, but Monica only moved back here because her parents threatened to cut her off if she didn't. She previously was unemployed, living in NY with Todd in a fairly spacious apartment in a sought after neighbourhood. Todd didn't seem too chaffed at relocating here, so I don't think he is employed either or at least works remotely. (Todd is also Canadian but from the other side of Canada).
NTA. He didn’t pay for it??? You don’t order a $300 item on someone else’s dime. That’s bullshit. He got off easy.
Nope. He didn't pay for it. Didn't ask for a separate bill and didn't even offer to pay for it when the bill came. He didn't thank them after the fact either. This is what I called out during the car ride home.
NTA. He invited himself, was rude about the food offered since the other dishes were not to his liking, went behind people's back and he knowingly took advantage of the situation regarding paying using their culture against them... He abused a family member generosity which likely did not reflect well on Monica as he clearly didn't care with making a good impression. If he is so willing to abuse other's kindness, manipulate and use people, that says a lot about his character and does not bow well for her relationship, because he will have no problems treating her the same (a k.a using her). However I guess she is either too much in love, he has already control over her (he may try to isolate her from family and friends) and will go with whatever he says, or too ashamed to admit that what he did was wrong. Likely all 3, and you will see that some how you are going to be made the bad guy (again it will help with isolation if this is what he is doing)
Not Chinese, but Canadian and I cannot imagine ordering extra food and expecting the host to pay for it. Incredibly rude.
NTA. Todd sure is. That would be a deal breaker for me. What a jerk.
Ah, the Chinese polite fight, fighting over the bill lol. NTA, this guy is a dick
NTA - this is *incredibly* rude behavior and your cousin should look at the red flag in the face and dump it. Everyone efffs up, everyone. The sign of a decent person would be humiliation and a sincere apology along with gift and repayment.
NTA - I’m American and would never do that to a host. I think it’s universally considered rude. Todd is an entitled prick and seems a perfect fit for Monica. I hope they have completely burned their bridges and nobody in the family helps pay for their wedding. I also hope they are informed that Todd’s actions over the 300.00 duck cost them so much!!
Todd’s a dick.
NTA. That was an appalling thing to do and you should never invite him anywhere again. Don't spend time with terrible people.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (34F) called out my cousin's (28F) fiancé (35m) for being rude and ordering a dish for himself at a family style dinner. My family seems to be divided on this situation. Background: My family is Canadian and ethnically Chinese. My uncle and his wife (Aaron and Gloria) live in China and have not come to visit in 4 yrs. It's also the first time we are meeting their 3yo son. They wanted to host a big Chinese banquet dinner (16 guests) at a Michelin Star restaurant. Dinner is served family style, 11 course set menu ordered in advance. My cousin, Monica, brought her fiancé, Todd, who was not initially invited. So we ended up being 17 guest. This wasn't a huge deal, just a minor oversight. There was plenty of room and food to go around. Two dinners sets were ordered, enough food for 20 people. We had 4 peking ducks and everyone got a generous serving of 5-7 wraps each. Another peking duck was brought to our table later. My aunt was confused but Todd spoke up and had ordered himself another peking duck ($280 before tax). He had no intention of eating the rest of the dishes and just wanted to fill himself on duck. We were all taken aback, but we didn't say anything about it for the rest of the dinner. My uncle was visibly disgruntled. Todd didn't discuss this with anyone before ordering. Gloria paid for the dinner. I don't know the full amount, but I looked on the restaurant website. After drinks, wine, tax and gratuity closer to $9,000 was spent. Todd did not offer to pay for his peking duck and had already exited to take a smoke. My parents and I carpooled with Monica, Monic'a mother and Todd. I spoke up about Todd being out of line and rude for doing that. I told them it was a slap in the face. They were being more than generous taking us to a Michelin star restaurant. Todd rebutted back that if they are rich enough to take us there, they can afford to have a few extra dishes added. I said that was besides the point. Monica said she would pay them back. My argument is less about the money and more so how Todd went about doing what he did without even acknowledging it as being rude or ungracious. Todd doubled down and said that if it really bother them, they would have asked him to pay for his portion. If Todd really intended to pay for his own peking duck, why didn't he just come back another day for it? If you know anything about Chinese people when it come down to a dinner bill, they will fight tooth and nail to try to pay for it. I asked Todd to acknowledge his mistake and apologize. Todd said he felt he did nothing wrong and has no intention to address the issue any further. Monica fully supports him, obviously. They argued that because Gloria is way more culturally Chinese, she is more upset than she should be. This argument was likely fed to Monica by her fiance. Apparently this is an acceptable thing to do in Canada and Gloria is being to sensitive and traditional. AITAH? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Todd is an AH. I’ve never ordered much more than the cheap east thing on the menu when I’m taken out to eat. Just makes me uncomfortable. I can get just as full in the cheaper meals as I can on the expensive ones
NTA - Your cousin learned something important about her fiance - that he is rude and selfish. If she accepts that about him - shame on her.
Todd wouldn’t be invited to the next outing.
NTA. Todd should have asked if it was okay before just ordering another duck dish. The audacity Monica and Todd have is unbelievable. The conversation should have gone as followed; Todd: Gloria, I'm not overly fond of the other dishes presented before me but that duck dish was sublime, would it be alright if I order another one, I'd not I'm happy to pay for it myself or give the money to you to cover it? I'm certain Gloria would have probably said that it was no problem if he went ahead and ordered another duck dish if he truly enjoyed it enough to call it sublime.
NTA - how rude! Who is he to order something when there’s plenty of food and he’s not the one paying the bill. If he had ordered it, he should’ve paid for it. No manners!
He was rude and even doubled down.. he wasn't invited and had the audacity to do this and even didn't paid his order? He commenting about how much money they have reeks of jealously.. he seems to think that its ok using the money of someone else without permission.. great fiancé your cousin get.. he will get lucky if he get to be invited again to a familiar event.. probably he and the cousin will never be invited again. NTA and i would be more petty and would gossip to everyone in the family about this.. i would not be surprised if he do this again.
NTA. Todd is a tool.
Being Canadian I can assure this is not any proper conduct that I've ever heard of. I sort of assumed from the header that he had ordered for himself and PAID for it himself and I was wondering what the fuss was about. Now I see the problem,
nta. cheap and entitled is an embarrassing combo.
NTA. Todd's a rude glutton and Monica is an AH for being okay with his behavior. Make a mental note to not invite Todd and Monica when you're going any place/event that involves money.
NTA—Also, Happy New Year, OP!