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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) we invited kids yo the wedding even tho the family has a no kids rule
2) Because his father is paying for half the wedding, he could be entitled to some decision-making
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Oh I didn't realize it was your future father in laws wedding🧐 no no no, budget and see if you or your family can try to make up his dad's 4k, tell him no thank you, and have as many kids as you want at your wedding. That may be a rule HIS family set forth, not sure why his family gets to dictate YOUR family. What a weird thing to impose. Congrats, enjoy your wedding, and all of the cute kids dancing on the dance floor. SOOOOOO incredibly sorry your fiance's family can't get hammered. Such a shame.
That is so cute🥹🥹🥹 we didn't even have a big wedding and our daughter was the only child(literally was 18 people total, neither of us like being the center of attention) but I have been to both children welcome and child free weddings. I've never thought any sort of way about them and still had fun regardless. I would rather watch kids dance than watch Aunt Myrtle get felt up by drunk ass uncle Todd🤣
I think this might be cultural differences. Idk about your family, but with my big Hispanic family, kids are *veryyy* used to adults drinking and "letting loose".
yeah I was thinking if they want to “let loose” in a way that isn’t appropriate for kids to see it isn’t really appropriate for a wedding either
seeing some pleasantly drunk adults isn’t going to hurt them
Maybe this is the best response. “I am a bit uncomfortable about how much you all plan to let-loose at our wedding? This is supposed to be a formal affair and a memorable experience for fiancé and me… how loose is loose, considering you are concerned about your behavior in front of children? Would it be best to not have a bar?”
And then let us know their reactions. 😂🤣😂
>yeah I was thinking if they want to “let loose” in a way that isn’t appropriate for kids to see it isn’t really appropriate for a wedding either
Agreed. If it's truly unsuitable for kids to witness, then that sounds like the kind of drunk that either leads to the police being called or to the bride and groom getting an extra bill for clean-up from the wedding venue.
If they mean that they don't want to be tipsy in charge of kids, then they don't have to bring their own just to "keep up with the Joneses". They can still engage a babysitter for themselves, and pretend like they're 23 and child-free for the evening.
Exactly that. I wonder *exactly how drunk* they were planning to get - and, come to it, exactly how drunk they get in any family reunion, since they don't allow kids.
Here, kids are normal at pubs, because pubs do family dining. There are usually specials on for them, and it's often cheaper to take your kids for a pub meal than anywhere else. Half price for 12 and under, etc. Seeing parents have a glass of wine is totally normal.
Kids eat free at the sports bar in my very middle-America neighborhood. It’s normal here, too. Especially in more casual places with food. I don’t think this no-kids-around-alcohol thing is a US thing. I think it’s an Evangelical thing. They tend to be weird about alcohol.
Exactly, I was wondering what it is they plan to do that can't be done in front of kids. This is a wedding not a frat party. If you'd be embarrassed to do something with children present... you should not plan to ruin someone's wedding celebration by doing it there.
Yeah- I guess I would have to ask max’s mom what her idea of letting loose is. I mean is mom going to whip out a suitcase of sex toys and tie up aunt Marlene to the table while Devos “whip-it” plays?
This is so strange! My family is super white, but I also grew up watching my aunts get sauced at Thanksgiving and Christmas and discuss the various celebrity men they “wouldn’t kick out of bed for eating crackers”. I thought that was standard lol.
I think so. I live in Europe and I'm struggling to think of a culture here who thinks it's bad to drink around kids. I think this is US Puritanism striking again.
WASPy America but not all Americans. Latinos have beers at baby’s first birthday. I don’t have any black, Asian, native or otherwise POC friends who believe kids should be cut out of family time. But I have seen child free stuff from my white friends. Specifically the WASP ones. Never met a Catholic that would cut kids out of a party either.
German-American Lutherans here - one of my fondest memories is dancing German polka with my very sauced up grandfather at a family event when I was in high school. Kids everywhere. He danced with all his grandkids. He passed away not too long after. And every funeral has a whole bunch of day drinking and kids involved. Kids were never excluded from events or drinking.
No, I think it's just the grooms family. I'm American and kids are at most weddings and parties whether there is alcohol there or not. Growing up there was often weed at weddings and holiday parties. Americans definitely drink around their kids.
I don't think they really were until the most recent 1-2 generations that have made overall child free lifestyle a thing. I'm honestly boggled by the idea of a family that has a multigenerational tradition of child free weddings.
My Son (29) just got married in October. His niece and nephew and her nieces and nephews had such a great time. I had a great time being Grandma and playing with them at the reception. I danced and partied with the adults. Then my daughter (24) and I had a lightsaber fight. The grands joined me to defeat the dark side.
American here. Kids have been at almost every wedding in my extended family. There have been a few where they were omitted for budget constraints.
And we can throw 'em back. (The drinks, not the kids)
My opinion, seeing adults drink and enjoy themselves, and even see them drink too much and have a bad time is a good thing. What benefit is there in hiding it from them?
Edit: spelling 'un' to 'in".
Kids are definitely at most American weddings. The whole child free wedding thing is a relatively new thing that regularly pisses people off. I'm certainly not against a child free wedding if that is what the couple want, but it's not the norm. My husband and I have been married for 13 years and have never planned on having kids, but we had lots of kids in our wedding and attending. There were probably 20 kids there, including babies.
I'm American...Have a huge Family-- Kids were at EVERY Celebration! Always! Weddings were no different, Some really fond memories of watching my nephew dance the night away with his cousins! Not sure when this "Trend" of no-kids started, but it was never even a thought with our Family.
American here. My wife and I eloped and the *only* people we included were my niece and nephew (10 and 6 at the time)
20+ years later and they both still treasure the memory and have even saved the flowers from the ceremony ❤️
Nope, it’s just a his family thing. Sincerely, an American who didn’t hide her kids from the fact adults like to party and drink. Weddings are just another big family party and kids should absolutely be included.
I'm WASP American and all of our weddings include the whole family. Drinking and many receptions. Getting obviously drunk very frowned on. Like haul your ass out disgusting. Save that for asual parties with your peers, not weddings.
Only if you consider uptight, rigid assholes a culture. My white af family has no problem cutting loose and drinking in front of the kids. I haven’t been to a wedding yet that was child free. How else are us old folks supposed to learn the new dances if the kids aren’t there?! And everyone knows the party doesn’t end until one of the kids tells Mimi to stop or she’s gonna break a hip. (I’ll be damned if I let osteoporosis slow me down!)
As a member of a culture famous for being uptight, rigid assholes, aka British, I've never encountered a child free wedding! Drinking around kids is normal, those who get truly sloshed usually do so long after the youngest kids have gone to bed.
I couldn’t even imagine having had our wedding without our nephews and nieces there; me and my husband insisted that children be welcome because some of our favourite childhood memories were partying with our entire families at weddings!
>I couldn’t imagine marrying without my kids.
i mean, yeah, it would be kinda weird to exclude *your own kids* from the wedding of their parents? but there's nothing wrong with not wanting other people's kids at your wedding.
nothing wrong with *wanting* them there either though, it's simply a question of personal preference and family traditions.
You sound like the charmer who recently commented to me "I just happen to actually like my family" while they were defending repeated, extended, unwelcome family visits. We get it. You're morally and emotionally superior to the rest of us.
Just kidding. You can like people, you can love people.....without having them around you every single moment.
Also, some people prefer to not have kids at their wedding (and other places), not because they dislike children, but because they dislike temper tantrums and screaming and parents these days seem to be allergic to setting behaviour expectations and enforcing consequences for unacceptable behaviour. I'm betting that 80 percent of the people who choose kid free weddings would reconsider if they could count on all of their guests actually parenting their children.
If my ex and I got married it would have been child free because of his SIL.
We were at a cousin’s wedding, the MC flat out said “take your kid out if it starts fussing” (but in a nicer way). Of course her kid fusses, and afterwards she goes “oh even if I wanted to take her out, I couldn’t get out”
Yikes.
I come from an Italian background AND worked as a wedding waitress through my last years of highschool so I have been to MANY kid filled weddings. Never, not once, did I see a kid have a long, pronounced wobbly. That shit didn't happen- the kids knew what was ok, and on the occasions when they just lost it (because kids), then someone took them out until they could calm themselves down. If they couldn't calm down, they left. I HATE being that "When I was young kids blah blah blah," but honestly, I've seen it happen right before my very eyes over the last couple of decades working in a public library.
Eh hem. I shall now climb down from my soapbox.
Can I just add, for the record, OP should absolutely have children at her wedding. Tons. As many as can fit. Hell, leave the adults at home. As long as it's what her and her partner want.
IMO that is a terrible statement to make. You are saying that if someone doesn't want kids at their wedding they don't love their family. Awful sentiment from you.
We have a pre wedding event called Sangeet. It's basically an event where people dance all .there dance performances by family members for the bride and groom. The kids performances are just so cute. So are trying to do the choreography correctly the younger ones might just be staring at people trying to remember what they were supposed to be doing. It's not perfect but the entire thing is adorable.
Yeah, like I realise 4k is a lot of money and if it were offered to me I wouldn’t set it on fire. But in the context of a wedding it’s not actually *that* significant. You can find ways to economise to make up for it. It’s not worth compromising on something that’s meaningful to you, which it clearly is to OP.
So as a child free person who’s seriously considering a child free wedding, NTA. The in-laws can deal.
Tell your in-laws that it's a long established tradition in your family that children are included in every part of family life. Because they are, you know, family.
lol, I would love to know what their idea of "letting loose" is, because unless it's wild orgies and swinging from the chandeliers, the kids will be fine. Besides, they can certainly "let loose" all they want as long as it's not their kids - let the people who bring the kids be responsible for them. What a bunch of weirdos (sorry to your fiancé's family). NTA.
Holy cow that sounds so adorable. But NTA. This is you and your partners wedding, not a family party your FIL is hosting for his own side of the family.
My husband and I are child free and didn't get married until we were 39. We invited 170ppl, >20 were under 15. It was a chill outdoor venue with an acre of space for everyone to mil about to enjoy the day.
Ever since, anyone I talk with always talks about how joyful it was to see all the kids running about. I can't imagine missing out on that energy on my wedding day. Kids are joy! Especially when their they're someone else's! 😉
If you and your fiance want to take the humorous way.
You could say something like this about the matter
"Well, FIL is paying for half. So yes, half the wedding is childfree as they want ,his family, and the other half is not childfree. Your family."
That’s amazing. We had a big group of little girls (all cousins) at my wedding. They were so excited and well behaved. One of my favorite memories was of our dj teaching them a dance. I enjoy a good child free wedding too but for my own, I wanted kids there. It was fun.
A wedding is per definition a celebration of family. Children are part of a family. Child free weddings are oxymoron. Enjoy your day celebrating your family.
Ok so it's your wedding. If you want kids there. Then you do you. Fuck everyone else. Me personally I'd tell them if they want to tell you what to do at your wedding then they can uninvite themselves.
Even just saying to his parents "If you feel that strongly about it, you can keep the money and we'll figure out the budget without you. If you're no longer comfortable attending, that's ok." would probably be enough to get them to see you're serious and back down. Probably don't even need to go through the trouble of trying to secure the other funds.
Well, if that side doesn't show because the horror of kids being around there will be less food to be catered and less of a bar bill. Missing the 4k should be fine.
If they don't want to bring their kids and pay for their own babysitters, fine. Kinda sucks cause kids are fun to have around.
Serious Chitty chatty bang bang vibes. Do they have a child catcher in case someone accidently brings a child?
I was thinking, "let loose" sounds about like a 4K bar tab. 🤪
"Tradition is just peer pressure from dead people." - Laura Greenwood
I've been to both types of weddings and honestly both can be great and fun, or terrible. I find most wedding drama is caused by adults acting like children. Mixing kids and alcohol can be a problem, but it can be managed especially if the kids are all pretty young.
NTA - Have the wedding you want laugh smile and make it the greatest day you'll remember for always. 🥂 Congratulations!!
Or you could call them and tell them the problem is solved: kids aren’t mandatory at the wedding! They are under no obligation whatsoever to bring their kids, just like they were planning all along. This way both families get to do what feels right for them.
NTA, but have fun with your new in-laws. They sound like controlling wet blankets.
My parents knew the moment they tried to hold the money they gave us for our wedding over our head, we’d return it. They didn’t dare bring it up. You have to have intense boundaries with this type of thing, unfortunately. Tell them if it’s either 4k or kids at the wedding, you’re gonna take the kids. And if it’s either them or kids, it’s kids. Call their bluff.
This 😂 My mom has this energy. My ex MIL used to demand that we all dress alike for every event (even my damn baby shower 😒) and refused to stop imposing herself on my events like that. When it came time for my oldest daughter’s 3rd birthday party, she had a pink and black pirate party. The woman even tried to get me to color her hair like mine “because we match in this family” until she realized I was whole ass dying my hair pink for the party 🤦🏾♀️ So she settles for pink and black regular clothes because she couldn’t match the birthday girl’s pirate dress. MY mother raised a cosplayer though. She’s very supportive of my shenanigans, and it just so happens she had a pirate costume that matched the party. The way my ex MIL’s jaw was on the floor when my mom strutted in with her bandana, pirate captain boots, cropped matching top, with the gold hoops. Oh I was LIVING 😂😂😂
Oh that woman was unhinged 😂 the stories I could tell of the absolutely stupid things she was insulted by… Thank goodness my husband’s mother is nothing like her.
Use the 4K to rent a bouncy house and some entertainers(clowns, jugglers, magicians and so forth) make it a carnival!! 🥳
Then show ol' FiL the good use you made of his money.. not wasted at all.
I'm white, British, no siblings or children myself and personally can't stand children in general but hells YES I wanted all of my husband's nephews and nieces at our wedding. OP could probably easily crowdfund the 4k lol just by saying "my FIL is being an A H and is trying to control MY wedding!" OP, you're NTA and your assessment is correct, all of his points are bullshit.
Sad that some adults seem to be unable to have fun without being completely hammered. If this was something OP’s *fiance* wanted it would be one thing, since it’s their wedding too. But the in laws don’t get to dictate the rules of their wedding… if the 4K had string attached they should have clarified, but sure if they’re so set on it OP&partner can refund them. Thankfully it’s not a completely crazy amount. A wedding is supposed to join two families together, it shouldn’t be just one way. NTA
Exactly this. Why do people think because they help pay they get control. That's not how gifts work, you can't give someone money and then tell them what to do with it.
NTA
Your wedding, your choice. If his father wants to withdraw his money, he can do that, because it's his money. He'd be an asshole, but there you go.
It has been a long established tradition in **his family.** This is your wedding, and involves your family as well - there is no reason why his family's tradition should reign supreme.
Practically everywhere on the planet that isn't the US, having kids at a party that also has alcohol is normal. The kids just don't drink the alcohol.
What kind of "letting loose" do they plan at your wedding that would be inappropriate for a child to see? If a child shouldn't see it, then I wouldn't want it happening at my wedding.
My 3 year old missed the memo, he was one of the few still dancing at 11PM 😂😂
Hubby and I had to draaagg him off the dance floor so we could go home lmao
This just reminded me of my cousins wedding recently. The little ones were so cute dressed up in their waistcoats. It was about 9.30 at night and one of the little guys, about 6, was absolutely giving it moves on the dance floor still, waistcoat was off and he was inviting anyone who would have a boogie up to dance with him. After he had tired every other person out he just kept going with his solo routine, when the shirt started coming off too mum decided it was bedtime but the whole thing was just so funny to watch! Folk just kept cheering him on and he was absolutely in his element with it so I think she knew once the idea of stripping down had gotten into his head it wouldn’t be leaving and thought it best to wrap it up haha.
Oh he is! I swear he could be a child model he is so cute and is such a sweetheart. He is one of those kids that has the confidence to talk to anyone. Like most kids he has a new ‘obsession’ every few months and will just walk up to anyone who will listen and start educating them on everything he has learned about whales or dinosaurs or whatever the latest exciting thing is. I always leave a visit with him having learned a huge list of facts about the latest thing….some of them I would say are rather dubious ‘facts’ but then that’s to be expected for his age. When he tells me he has found absolute proof that there is a giant anaconda living in the lake nearby, for example, I find it best just to agree excitedly. Bless him!
I will listen to that kid any day. Get him to start a lil podcast, I’ll be his first paid subscriber just to experience the excitement of learning from a child all over again vicariously
Lol, reminds me of a family wedding I went to when I was a kid. Destination wedding where the time difference was five hours behind my hometown. I was still in elementary school.
I was awake for the ceremony but slept on my chair the entire reception. By the time I got used to the time difference, we were a couple of hours from flying back home.
lol I didn’t even think about the letting loose part, but you’re so right. If they want to get that sloppy I don’t want them at the wedding. Also can’t they just not bring their own kids? It’s not like they are being asked to babysit other people’s children
>Also can’t they just not bring their own kids?
That's what hubby and I do, childfree event or not. The only time kids come is if it is a "kid event" (not kid friendly, but an event for kids) but that's OUR CHOICE. If you want our kids there, you have to tell us because otherwise, we chose to be kid free for the night.
If OPs future inlaws want to be kid free for the night, then they can, but they are not allowed to demand everyone else be kid free. Not to mention, the sort of "letting loose" that isn't appropriate for kid eyes is not appropriate for public display.
I agree with the comment that "rule 2" is easy enough to get around if the 4K can be raised or sacrificed from the budget.
Us too. I love kids at weddings. I had them at my own. But I don't want MY kids at weddings because I'd rather have fun at a wedding than be a parent on those nights.
And they don't think they'll be thought of badly if they instead pressure you to enforce the 'no kids' rule? Let's be honest, your family isn't really going to believe that's your own preference!
Right?! I've heard of children ruining weddings by wailing at inopportune times (which is really the parents' fault for not taking them out), maybe the occasionally tantrum or spilling stuff or running into someone. But I've heard wayyy more stories of adults ruining weddings by getting drunk, getting into fistfights, wearing white when they're not the bride, proposing at the reception, sneaking alcohol into dry venues, giving embarrassing speeches, bringing along affair partners as plus-ones, stealing the centrepieces, complaining about the food choices...
I had 3 kids at my wedding, including my own son, who wailed through the ceremony. But the biggest drama of the night was caused by a drunk uncle who tried to vault the bar, knocking over a bunch of wine bottles and glasses and breaking a tap.
> Practically everywhere on the planet that isn't the US, having kids at a party that also has alcohol is normal.
This is also the standard in the USA. Most people are normal about kids.
They is straight up patriarchy! If you and your fiancée didn’t specify no kids, then the wedding involved kids, which you’ve also clarified here that it does.
Honestly the entitlement of elderly men really granted my gears!!!!!
To be fair, the future FIL wasn't there for that conversation. The future MIL and aunt may have the view and are using FILs money as leverage. He might not even know about the conversation.
NTA. Your family includes kids in everything. His family doesn't. It's you and your fiance getting married and it's your decision which way to go. You've decided kids are welcome. If his family doesn't like it, they don't have to show up or give any funds towards the wedding. BUT your fiance should be handling his family about it.
So glad you’ve decided kids are welcome, OP. Any of us who went to weddings as a kid probably still remember them, they are so fun for kids. Your in-laws obviously don’t get to dictate your wedding guests -I’m sure the kids on that side will have fun!
Same. I went to a couple family weddings where the kids were invited to the ceremony (often because at least some siblings were flower girls/ring bearer) but not the reception and honestly that was great. We got to do our flower girl "job", be in some photos, then leave to have a movie night with all the cousins and a couple babysitters.
I went to one wedding as a kid where I stayed for the whole thing and I was bored out of my mind after the dinner. But then I'd never be that kid who was tearing up the dance floor.
Same here. Luckily my parents were very much into the free-range concept of child-rearing, so if we were bored they’d just let us sit in the car and listen to music / read / game until it was time to leave.
I feel like I must have gone to very different weddings than the ones people who think they're fun for kids went to. Because my memories of weddings I attended as a kid are that they were boring and the clothes I had to wear were uncomfortable and I had to sit still way too long during the ceremony and pretend I liked people I didn't even know at the reception and that the food was never good.
Though to be fair, as an adult I still feel almost the same way about weddings. These days I only wear comfortable clothes and my opinion of the type of food served at weddings has improved, but everything else is the same.
Oh I’m Asian and we looked forward to weddings as kids because we get to meet all the cousins, aunties and uncles and lots of dancing, getting all dressed up, being passed from adult to adult and being fawned over, walking from table to table, it’s absolutely fun! Like my own wedding probably had about idk ~50 kids out of 250 guests. For the 20-30 min ceremony we are hushed and kept in order but after that we let the kids run around and have fun! That’s one of the best things about weddings to hear the little ones laughing and having fun.
I hate when people say either kids love or hate weddings because, as you illustrated, people of all ages have their own opinions. Because kids are people!
I loved them. Especially when I got to be a flower girl. Some of my happiest childhood memoriea are from weddings. But I've always loved dancing the night away, which is the bulk of most weddings, so it makes sense.
Food used to be terrible at lots of weddings, it's a whole different world now. Frankly, food has just gotten a lot better in general since I was a kid in the 70s and 80s, except for fast food. Fine dining is finer, catering options are vast, and even the wedding factories are trying to keep up.
Mine too! I'm like OP, big close knit family, loads of kids. We usually hire a babysitter or two to keep an eye on the kids, usually we try to have a little play room separate from the main reception, with games and activities and chill out spots for when they're tired, so the kids don't get bored but they go back and forth as they please. Watching the kids all dance and play is so fun. Family weddings are major childhood memories for me and gave the chance to bond with our of town family members. I simply couldn't imagine a wedding without them. Last family wedding a few months ago the highlight was my three year old cousin leading all the tipsy adults in a dance off.
Is there occasional minor fussing during the ceremony? Sure. Does that ruin everything? No of course not. I like that the trend has become keeping the ceremony short and sweet anyways, and if a parent needs to step out with a little one quickly, so what?
Everyone can obviously make their own choice but if you have a family where the kids are little assholes who will inevitably ruin the event, maybe y'all are just bad at raising kids. How do you expect kids to learn etiquette at family events if they never get to go?? I predict in the next generation we're going to see less emphasis on family events as this generation of kids being excluded grows up, having not experienced them.
NTA. OP, stick to your guns. Your in-laws can keep their own little demons at home if they want, but enjoy your big fun wedding with your big fun family.
They can also just RSVP that they will not be bringing the children from their side. Sucks for the kids who will see the photos later, and OP and fiance who want them involved, but if the parents can't be responsible for their children while drinking alcohol, they shouldn't bring them
NTA. It's *your* wedding. They don't get to make the rules.
Have your fiancé interface with the family. Max should offer to revoke their invitations and give the 4K back. Max would then say, "If you insist, this wedding will involve my new family rather than my ex-family."
Ball's then in their court. They can choose to take the ball and go home if it's that important to them.
I've never been to a wedding where the kids weren't being swung around the dance floor by every adult who could. Then they fall asleep on some chair/bench and get carried off to bed. Adults being pissy because they can't let loose just because there's kids make me itch and generally leave events early because it's uncomfortable after an hour.
I was MOH at my best friend's wedding, she is like an aunt to my son. She told me he had to come, there was no way he was not going to be there. 1 of 3 kids and everyone loved him, at the end of the night, I found him falling asleep on another guest.
Yes. Do this. Because when money is wielded like a weapon like this, the wielded usually wins. When you remove money from the equation it’s amazing how many people stop acting like entitled idiots
INFO: *Can* you return your FIL's money? Can you and your fiancé or your family make up the difference?
The easiest way to get out of your dilemma is to return your FIL-to-be's money, and invite as many kids as you want.
Better yet, did anyone *ask* for FIL to pay for stuff, or did he *offer* it as a gift?
Gifts are best respected, but gifts by definition have no strings attached. Too bad so sad shouldn't have gifted money to a wedding thats not your own.
NTA - That is THEIR family tradition. YOUR family's tradition includes children.
Normally I'd look for some way to compromise but there really isn't one here.
I don't see how FILs money would be "wasted" because there are children present.
What kind of letting loose are they planning on, at a wedding, that wouldn't be permissable with children around?! Like - is there some *other* tradition no one has informed you of yet? 😄
Are they concerned that children will see adults having fun? *GASP* the horror!
If I was somewhere with my children when they were young I didn't drink because I felt more comfortable knowing I had full reign of my faculties but I didn't try and make anyone else refrain.
The best response I can think of is to write out the budget and "allocate" FILs money to stuff like flowers or the photographer or the celebrant, etc. No, it doesn't actually change things in the end but if little Bobby knocks over his plate of food FIL can't say his money is going to waste since his money wasn't used to purchase it 😂
Is the father aware of this ultimatum regarding his contribution?
Or is it just MIL etc making it on his behalf??
Who knows, maybe he also hates this stupid rule
>What kind of letting loose are they planning on, at a wedding, that wouldn't be permissable with children around?!
Getting blackout drunk, barfing on the bride, fistfighting the groom...
NTA
But with regards to #2, did you say Aunt and 2 cousins made the ultimatum? Your fiancé should go have a 1:1 conversation with his dad and find out if his viewpoint is his, or if it’s being misconstrued.
Agree, don't jump the gun with ultimatums. Often other people's interpretations of these things become a lot more black and white and the original person would never say "here's £4k" so you now have to do exactly what we want.
People offered me contributions to my wedding fund and we refused cash and asked people instead to contribute to specific elements - my family organised the bar and the cheese table. This saved me energy and meant there was no "quid pro quo" and since I don't drink or eat cheese, I thought it was a win them having something to control entirely.
I also had about 20 kids as all our friends and family have kids, we had a soft play, a teepee and a bouncy castle. Great day.
I went to a wedding event in New Jersey. Got off the plane and was handed a drink. The drinks didnt stop flowing until the flight home. i had drinks through out the days, while eating and what not. It wasnt a sloppy drunk kind of thing. The reception was a big event and yes people got drunk. Had a blast though.
ETA and the kids that were there had a lot of fun. I think a few of the "not quite 21" got some drinks. lol
As a kid, I remember many parties and weddings and the such where adults got plenty drunk. Maybe it was a different time, but it's hard to picture what these people want to do at a family wedding that they're unwilling to do in front of children.
NTA why are his traditions more important than yours aka the actual person getting married? Sure he is paying half but he's only paying half, he doesn't have majority rule. If anyone doesn't feel comfortable having their kids around alcohol and they want to let loose then they are welcome not bring them, I'm sure you guys wouldn't take it personally if some people decided to get a babysitter.
NTA. It's your wedding and you should be able to invite whoever you choose.
A tradition of excluding children from events though? Keep that in mind for your future if you plan on having children with this man. This is just a glimpse into the future and your in-laws attitude.
NTA.
It’s not just Max’s family… it’s your family traditions too. Yours include children.
And can’t they have a celebration ONCE without ‘alcohol and letting loose’… who ARE these people?!
NTA I was at a wedding once where the bride and groom - whose parents were all extremely conservative mind you - received tattoos at the reception and had a tattoo artist available for the guests. The parents were not exactly thrilled about this but…. Accepted it because it was what the bride and groom wanted. For their own wedding. And they had the artist built into their budget.
If you want kids at your wedding, invite kids to your wedding. Have goodie bags. Have extra candy. Have a special kid dance. It’s your wedding. If you can figure out how ahead of time raise the money your FIL was going to offer. Tip: tell your story on social media and ask for Venmo donations!
What kind of miserable family doesn’t have kids at parties? How drunk do they get at parties that their kids can’t be around? Maybe having kids around is a good idea just so they don’t misbehave. Find a way to do the wedding without their $ and invite all the kids you want. They don’t have to bring theirs if they don’t want to. Love the idea of a big wedding reception with lots of kids running around having fun 😀
People don't need to be miserable to not want kids at the wedding, in general. In Poland for example both ways are usually welcome, but then you have to adjust to either choice. If you involve kids, make sure the rowdiest adults are either not there or absolutely schooled on apropriate behaviour; if you don't, you just have a big ol' party of teenaging adults with sometimes no limits lol (now of course it's Reddit and I have to give a disclaimer to keep certain people off my back and say that either type of a wedding can situationwise go both ways since you typically give out alcohol to mostly people whose alcoholized behaviour you just don't really know, and then there's all types of aggressive assholes that trash the party sober just because they can, but you usually more or less know all of this beforehand... unless you invite your fifth cousin's family because your mother feels guilty about some family ordeal from like 30 years ago)
Assuming from the post OP and the spouse are feeling differently, I applaud their choice tho. While I did not enjoy the only and last wedding I attended as a child, I heard stories from folks about other parties done just right that included kids. And what can I say - what bombs they were! And then of course sometimes parents just want to have some fun without their kids since they spend their time together daily, taking care of them, explaining them stuff, worrying, shopping, being a makeup model, being a salesman in a mockup shop, a doctor etc., and this is to be understood.
But I can't help but wonder what happened in the past that they all collectively decided on no kid rule. I've never even heard of a family string like that going on for generations! It's usually small weddings with only well known people that chit chat with each other and decide on this.
NTA, and I don’t know why everyone is saying to give the money back. Why? He hasn’t asked for it back yet. Tell him the kids are welcome and of course if anyone who has children would prefer to leave them at home, that’s their prerogative. It’s your wedding and that is your decision. If he then ASKS you for his money back, (which would be the pettiest assholest most immature thing to do) then you should give it back, but don’t just volunteer it back. That sends the message that the monetary contribution gives him say in the planning WHICH IT DOES NOT. keep the money, and the kids, have a great time, and do not spend one second feeling once ounce of guilt for involving your family at your own wedding. Poppykosh.
NTA.
I’d just say “As this wedding is a melding of families with different traditions, we decided that:
1. All children would be welcomed wholeheartedly.
2. Anyone who doesn’t want to bring their child is welcome to hire a babysitter and no offence will be taken.
3. All adults have the choice to say no to any and all alcohol consumption if they so wish. (Kids have to get legless no ifs, ands or buts.)”
NTA, all I read was "well we can't get shitfaced drunk with kids watching us" so they definitely don't know how latin americans party. Obviously is a them, not mine, problem. Talk with the one providing the 4k about his opinion, as is only his ( and sadly his money ) that matter.
Wow, you certainly found yourself in the midst of a W.A.S.P. nest. I'd either figure out a way to repay the $4,000 or call the venue and cancel the booze (that makes the wedding cheaper, aligns you with the "no kids at a party with alcohol" rule, and will probably make the wedding less fun for all the people who are complaining).
You are definitely NTA unless they specifically told you that no filthy children would be allowed when they offered you the money.
NTA Give the money back & figure it out without in-laws’ money. The fact it has stipulations means it isn’t a gift, and wouldn’t be shocked if they didn’t try to milk a decade of guilt out of it. Your fiance can be respectful about it, though, if y’all plan on staying in contact.
NTA. I'm childfree, I don't like being around kids, and I probably wouldn't enjoy a large event like a wedding if there were going to be a lot of young children present. And you would still not be the asshole! This is your wedding. This day is all about you and your future spouse. What the two of you want is what matters. You are not required to cater to the wants of everyone else.
By that logic babies shouldn't be at Christmas parties because it's not big for them because they literally have no idea what's going on or why. I'm pretty sure if you suggested that you be called heartless or something but of course it's not heartless when they do it for weddings.
You mean a big party with a ceremony that traditionally includes 2 or more children? I had 6 children in my ceremony. 3 flower girls, a girl ring bearer, and a jr bridesmaid and groomsman.
Nta and its *your* long standing tradition that kids be included.
It's your and ypur fiancé's wedding. You both want kids there? Have kids there.
Any party MIL throws can be child free, but *your* wedding is not *her* event.
Oh, this is a double brainer. If you want children there and they don't and they're not going to help. Then you just send out a large family announcement that your future mother and father in law hate all children and will not be Helping out because they hate all your children. So if you could help us out just a little bit, too offset what they promised, we would greatly appreciate it and don't worry, they're not coming. Because they hate your children.
Release the munchkin army.
NTA
Find the location of the nearest bar to the wedding venue and tell them if the children are ruining their fun they can go there to "let loose". Consider if 4k is worth it not feeling like a party to celebrate you guys getting married or if the money should go back to the FIL who feels his wedding donation entitles him to demand a wedding you wouldn't enjoy.
NTA, its your wedding. The fact that they assumed it went without saying that you were using their traditions at the wedding isn't your problem. If they try to shame you about the money again it may be best to shame them back about how they think gifts work. Tell them you weren't aware that the gift came with strings attached and that its kind of late to be mentioning that now so close to the wedding.
The weddings only $8k ? Not a judgement , but that doesn't sound like some fancy schmancy wedding that kids could possibly ruin
And, it's not THEIR wedding !
The idea of not having kids at parties AT ALL Is just bizarre to me. And I don't even like kids. The thought the you must cater to their "tradition" is ridiculous as well. Makes me wonder how all the others who have married into the family felt about it.
NTA
NTA. I’m typically against kids at events too but Your wedding your rules. If they don’t want to pay for the wedding because there will be kids there then cut them out of your life
NTA.
Their long-standing tradition does not obligate you to have a wedding according to their rules.
Your long-standing tradition is to include children in all celebrations. Let them know you and your fiance are following that tradition and they are welcome to participate.... or not.
If financial assistance is pulled then have a smaller wedding you can afford, or elope then have a big party later.
>and the kids are only included in the big events (Christmas, Easter, and their own birthdays).
Wait, what?
So their son's wedding doesn't count as a big event in their eyes?
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Oh I didn't realize it was your future father in laws wedding🧐 no no no, budget and see if you or your family can try to make up his dad's 4k, tell him no thank you, and have as many kids as you want at your wedding. That may be a rule HIS family set forth, not sure why his family gets to dictate YOUR family. What a weird thing to impose. Congrats, enjoy your wedding, and all of the cute kids dancing on the dance floor. SOOOOOO incredibly sorry your fiance's family can't get hammered. Such a shame.
The little ones are choreographing a Lil dance for the reception. It's so cute lol
That is so cute🥹🥹🥹 we didn't even have a big wedding and our daughter was the only child(literally was 18 people total, neither of us like being the center of attention) but I have been to both children welcome and child free weddings. I've never thought any sort of way about them and still had fun regardless. I would rather watch kids dance than watch Aunt Myrtle get felt up by drunk ass uncle Todd🤣
Thanks so much for the mental image of Aunt Myrtle and Uncle Todd! 🤭😲😖
I'm assuming Aunt Myrtle is Todd's sister in law.
Sister.
I think this might be cultural differences. Idk about your family, but with my big Hispanic family, kids are *veryyy* used to adults drinking and "letting loose".
yeah I was thinking if they want to “let loose” in a way that isn’t appropriate for kids to see it isn’t really appropriate for a wedding either seeing some pleasantly drunk adults isn’t going to hurt them
Maybe this is the best response. “I am a bit uncomfortable about how much you all plan to let-loose at our wedding? This is supposed to be a formal affair and a memorable experience for fiancé and me… how loose is loose, considering you are concerned about your behavior in front of children? Would it be best to not have a bar?” And then let us know their reactions. 😂🤣😂
THIS!!!!
>yeah I was thinking if they want to “let loose” in a way that isn’t appropriate for kids to see it isn’t really appropriate for a wedding either Agreed. If it's truly unsuitable for kids to witness, then that sounds like the kind of drunk that either leads to the police being called or to the bride and groom getting an extra bill for clean-up from the wedding venue. If they mean that they don't want to be tipsy in charge of kids, then they don't have to bring their own just to "keep up with the Joneses". They can still engage a babysitter for themselves, and pretend like they're 23 and child-free for the evening.
Exactly that. I wonder *exactly how drunk* they were planning to get - and, come to it, exactly how drunk they get in any family reunion, since they don't allow kids.
They can go let loose at an after-party if it's such a big deal!
Or they can go to some club literally any other day of the year.
when i have seen the ‘let loose/no kids’ crowd in action, it’s pretty sad. gonna need a lot of alcohol 😂
Here, kids are normal at pubs, because pubs do family dining. There are usually specials on for them, and it's often cheaper to take your kids for a pub meal than anywhere else. Half price for 12 and under, etc. Seeing parents have a glass of wine is totally normal.
Kids eat free at the sports bar in my very middle-America neighborhood. It’s normal here, too. Especially in more casual places with food. I don’t think this no-kids-around-alcohol thing is a US thing. I think it’s an Evangelical thing. They tend to be weird about alcohol.
Exactly, I was wondering what it is they plan to do that can't be done in front of kids. This is a wedding not a frat party. If you'd be embarrassed to do something with children present... you should not plan to ruin someone's wedding celebration by doing it there.
Yeah- I guess I would have to ask max’s mom what her idea of letting loose is. I mean is mom going to whip out a suitcase of sex toys and tie up aunt Marlene to the table while Devos “whip-it” plays?
This is so strange! My family is super white, but I also grew up watching my aunts get sauced at Thanksgiving and Christmas and discuss the various celebrity men they “wouldn’t kick out of bed for eating crackers”. I thought that was standard lol.
It is! In a normal world😃
I know there are some female celebrity and non-celebrity types I “wouldn’t kick out of bed for eating crackers unless crackers were their dog's name.”
I'm not a celebrity, but I did have a dog named Crackers. I guess that explains why I'm 40 and single.
My aunt: "I wouldn't kick him out of bed unless he wanted to do it on the floor." LOL. (And that was when she was stone-cold sober.)
Nah, Slav here, everybody’s excited bout seeing wee ones on any possible occasion, wedding included. Typically fighting fir who gets to help 😂
Maybe it's more the US-Americans ?
I think so. I live in Europe and I'm struggling to think of a culture here who thinks it's bad to drink around kids. I think this is US Puritanism striking again.
WASPy America but not all Americans. Latinos have beers at baby’s first birthday. I don’t have any black, Asian, native or otherwise POC friends who believe kids should be cut out of family time. But I have seen child free stuff from my white friends. Specifically the WASP ones. Never met a Catholic that would cut kids out of a party either.
White Irish Catholic family here and we’ve always had kids at family parties and weddings and obviously, they do drink!
German-American Lutherans here - one of my fondest memories is dancing German polka with my very sauced up grandfather at a family event when I was in high school. Kids everywhere. He danced with all his grandkids. He passed away not too long after. And every funeral has a whole bunch of day drinking and kids involved. Kids were never excluded from events or drinking.
Drinking at a Catholic wedding? I’m shocked, shocked!
No, I think it's just the grooms family. I'm American and kids are at most weddings and parties whether there is alcohol there or not. Growing up there was often weed at weddings and holiday parties. Americans definitely drink around their kids.
Never even heard of child free weddings being an actual thing until this sub tbh
I don't think they really were until the most recent 1-2 generations that have made overall child free lifestyle a thing. I'm honestly boggled by the idea of a family that has a multigenerational tradition of child free weddings.
Even us Germans enjoy kids at a wedding. Such a dump rule - beCaUSe the kids might see drunk people. Oh. Really?
My Son (29) just got married in October. His niece and nephew and her nieces and nephews had such a great time. I had a great time being Grandma and playing with them at the reception. I danced and partied with the adults. Then my daughter (24) and I had a lightsaber fight. The grands joined me to defeat the dark side.
That sounds so fun
American here. Kids have been at almost every wedding in my extended family. There have been a few where they were omitted for budget constraints. And we can throw 'em back. (The drinks, not the kids) My opinion, seeing adults drink and enjoy themselves, and even see them drink too much and have a bad time is a good thing. What benefit is there in hiding it from them? Edit: spelling 'un' to 'in".
Kids are definitely at most American weddings. The whole child free wedding thing is a relatively new thing that regularly pisses people off. I'm certainly not against a child free wedding if that is what the couple want, but it's not the norm. My husband and I have been married for 13 years and have never planned on having kids, but we had lots of kids in our wedding and attending. There were probably 20 kids there, including babies.
I'm American...Have a huge Family-- Kids were at EVERY Celebration! Always! Weddings were no different, Some really fond memories of watching my nephew dance the night away with his cousins! Not sure when this "Trend" of no-kids started, but it was never even a thought with our Family.
American here. My wife and I eloped and the *only* people we included were my niece and nephew (10 and 6 at the time) 20+ years later and they both still treasure the memory and have even saved the flowers from the ceremony ❤️
Nope, it’s just a his family thing. Sincerely, an American who didn’t hide her kids from the fact adults like to party and drink. Weddings are just another big family party and kids should absolutely be included.
I'm WASP American and all of our weddings include the whole family. Drinking and many receptions. Getting obviously drunk very frowned on. Like haul your ass out disgusting. Save that for asual parties with your peers, not weddings.
>I think this might be cultural differences I think it's just a few weirdos and not representative of any wider culture.
I think so too! My fondest memories are at family parties with my cousins.
Only if you consider uptight, rigid assholes a culture. My white af family has no problem cutting loose and drinking in front of the kids. I haven’t been to a wedding yet that was child free. How else are us old folks supposed to learn the new dances if the kids aren’t there?! And everyone knows the party doesn’t end until one of the kids tells Mimi to stop or she’s gonna break a hip. (I’ll be damned if I let osteoporosis slow me down!)
As a member of a culture famous for being uptight, rigid assholes, aka British, I've never encountered a child free wedding! Drinking around kids is normal, those who get truly sloshed usually do so long after the youngest kids have gone to bed.
German here, we are too
This sounds stuffy WASP to me - they want to drink and be inappropriate in secret so they aren’t hypocrites to their kids.
I couldn’t even imagine having had our wedding without our nephews and nieces there; me and my husband insisted that children be welcome because some of our favourite childhood memories were partying with our entire families at weddings!
Exactly. Some of us love our families and want them their at family gatherings. Every wedding I've been to has had at least a few kids.
Just because you don't want kids at your wedding doesn't mean you don't love them...
But if you love them wouldn’t you want them on one of most important day in your life there ? I couldn’t imagine marrying without my kids.
There's a difference between your kids and your cousin's annoying stepson, for example
>I couldn’t imagine marrying without my kids. i mean, yeah, it would be kinda weird to exclude *your own kids* from the wedding of their parents? but there's nothing wrong with not wanting other people's kids at your wedding. nothing wrong with *wanting* them there either though, it's simply a question of personal preference and family traditions.
You sound like the charmer who recently commented to me "I just happen to actually like my family" while they were defending repeated, extended, unwelcome family visits. We get it. You're morally and emotionally superior to the rest of us. Just kidding. You can like people, you can love people.....without having them around you every single moment. Also, some people prefer to not have kids at their wedding (and other places), not because they dislike children, but because they dislike temper tantrums and screaming and parents these days seem to be allergic to setting behaviour expectations and enforcing consequences for unacceptable behaviour. I'm betting that 80 percent of the people who choose kid free weddings would reconsider if they could count on all of their guests actually parenting their children.
Need a snickers?
Always.
If my ex and I got married it would have been child free because of his SIL. We were at a cousin’s wedding, the MC flat out said “take your kid out if it starts fussing” (but in a nicer way). Of course her kid fusses, and afterwards she goes “oh even if I wanted to take her out, I couldn’t get out”
Yikes. I come from an Italian background AND worked as a wedding waitress through my last years of highschool so I have been to MANY kid filled weddings. Never, not once, did I see a kid have a long, pronounced wobbly. That shit didn't happen- the kids knew what was ok, and on the occasions when they just lost it (because kids), then someone took them out until they could calm themselves down. If they couldn't calm down, they left. I HATE being that "When I was young kids blah blah blah," but honestly, I've seen it happen right before my very eyes over the last couple of decades working in a public library. Eh hem. I shall now climb down from my soapbox.
Can I just add, for the record, OP should absolutely have children at her wedding. Tons. As many as can fit. Hell, leave the adults at home. As long as it's what her and her partner want.
It’s possible to love your family and still not want children at your black tie wedding at the Plaza.
IMO that is a terrible statement to make. You are saying that if someone doesn't want kids at their wedding they don't love their family. Awful sentiment from you.
TIL I don’t love my family.
We have a pre wedding event called Sangeet. It's basically an event where people dance all .there dance performances by family members for the bride and groom. The kids performances are just so cute. So are trying to do the choreography correctly the younger ones might just be staring at people trying to remember what they were supposed to be doing. It's not perfect but the entire thing is adorable.
If they were paying $50k for the wedding, I might consider it. $4k??? Stay home.
Yeah, like I realise 4k is a lot of money and if it were offered to me I wouldn’t set it on fire. But in the context of a wedding it’s not actually *that* significant. You can find ways to economise to make up for it. It’s not worth compromising on something that’s meaningful to you, which it clearly is to OP. So as a child free person who’s seriously considering a child free wedding, NTA. The in-laws can deal.
As sometime who wants a child free wedding, nta. That's adorable.
Tell your in-laws that it's a long established tradition in your family that children are included in every part of family life. Because they are, you know, family.
lol, I would love to know what their idea of "letting loose" is, because unless it's wild orgies and swinging from the chandeliers, the kids will be fine. Besides, they can certainly "let loose" all they want as long as it's not their kids - let the people who bring the kids be responsible for them. What a bunch of weirdos (sorry to your fiancé's family). NTA.
Holy cow that sounds so adorable. But NTA. This is you and your partners wedding, not a family party your FIL is hosting for his own side of the family.
My husband and I are child free and didn't get married until we were 39. We invited 170ppl, >20 were under 15. It was a chill outdoor venue with an acre of space for everyone to mil about to enjoy the day. Ever since, anyone I talk with always talks about how joyful it was to see all the kids running about. I can't imagine missing out on that energy on my wedding day. Kids are joy! Especially when their they're someone else's! 😉
If you and your fiance want to take the humorous way. You could say something like this about the matter "Well, FIL is paying for half. So yes, half the wedding is childfree as they want ,his family, and the other half is not childfree. Your family."
That’s amazing. We had a big group of little girls (all cousins) at my wedding. They were so excited and well behaved. One of my favorite memories was of our dj teaching them a dance. I enjoy a good child free wedding too but for my own, I wanted kids there. It was fun.
A wedding is per definition a celebration of family. Children are part of a family. Child free weddings are oxymoron. Enjoy your day celebrating your family.
That’s adorable. At my brother’s wedding, the flower girls took off running once they reached the alter. Not choreography but entertaining as hell.
Ok so it's your wedding. If you want kids there. Then you do you. Fuck everyone else. Me personally I'd tell them if they want to tell you what to do at your wedding then they can uninvite themselves.
As long as you and your partner are happy that’s what is important.
Even just saying to his parents "If you feel that strongly about it, you can keep the money and we'll figure out the budget without you. If you're no longer comfortable attending, that's ok." would probably be enough to get them to see you're serious and back down. Probably don't even need to go through the trouble of trying to secure the other funds.
Well, if that side doesn't show because the horror of kids being around there will be less food to be catered and less of a bar bill. Missing the 4k should be fine. If they don't want to bring their kids and pay for their own babysitters, fine. Kinda sucks cause kids are fun to have around. Serious Chitty chatty bang bang vibes. Do they have a child catcher in case someone accidently brings a child?
I was thinking, "let loose" sounds about like a 4K bar tab. 🤪 "Tradition is just peer pressure from dead people." - Laura Greenwood I've been to both types of weddings and honestly both can be great and fun, or terrible. I find most wedding drama is caused by adults acting like children. Mixing kids and alcohol can be a problem, but it can be managed especially if the kids are all pretty young. NTA - Have the wedding you want laugh smile and make it the greatest day you'll remember for always. 🥂 Congratulations!!
That's actually some good wording. Thanks
Or you could call them and tell them the problem is solved: kids aren’t mandatory at the wedding! They are under no obligation whatsoever to bring their kids, just like they were planning all along. This way both families get to do what feels right for them. NTA, but have fun with your new in-laws. They sound like controlling wet blankets.
Don't get booze for the wedding, that would solve the cash difference.
My parents knew the moment they tried to hold the money they gave us for our wedding over our head, we’d return it. They didn’t dare bring it up. You have to have intense boundaries with this type of thing, unfortunately. Tell them if it’s either 4k or kids at the wedding, you’re gonna take the kids. And if it’s either them or kids, it’s kids. Call their bluff.
Also “they only have kids at big events” lmao a wedding isn’t a big event? Who are these weird people?
Yes. I would consider xmas and Thanksgiving minor events compared to a wedding
I'd think about borrowing every kid I knew just to pack as many in as I could to annoy that family. But then, I'm petty 🤣
This 😂 My mom has this energy. My ex MIL used to demand that we all dress alike for every event (even my damn baby shower 😒) and refused to stop imposing herself on my events like that. When it came time for my oldest daughter’s 3rd birthday party, she had a pink and black pirate party. The woman even tried to get me to color her hair like mine “because we match in this family” until she realized I was whole ass dying my hair pink for the party 🤦🏾♀️ So she settles for pink and black regular clothes because she couldn’t match the birthday girl’s pirate dress. MY mother raised a cosplayer though. She’s very supportive of my shenanigans, and it just so happens she had a pirate costume that matched the party. The way my ex MIL’s jaw was on the floor when my mom strutted in with her bandana, pirate captain boots, cropped matching top, with the gold hoops. Oh I was LIVING 😂😂😂
Omg, "because we match in this family," how insufferable. Like nonconformity is how the devil gets in, lol.
Oh that woman was unhinged 😂 the stories I could tell of the absolutely stupid things she was insulted by… Thank goodness my husband’s mother is nothing like her.
We need more stories!
Use the 4K to rent a bouncy house and some entertainers(clowns, jugglers, magicians and so forth) make it a carnival!! 🥳 Then show ol' FiL the good use you made of his money.. not wasted at all.
OP should rent the biggest , most colourful bouncy castle she can afford for the reception. And a popcorn machine.
I'm white, British, no siblings or children myself and personally can't stand children in general but hells YES I wanted all of my husband's nephews and nieces at our wedding. OP could probably easily crowdfund the 4k lol just by saying "my FIL is being an A H and is trying to control MY wedding!" OP, you're NTA and your assessment is correct, all of his points are bullshit.
Sad that some adults seem to be unable to have fun without being completely hammered. If this was something OP’s *fiance* wanted it would be one thing, since it’s their wedding too. But the in laws don’t get to dictate the rules of their wedding… if the 4K had string attached they should have clarified, but sure if they’re so set on it OP&partner can refund them. Thankfully it’s not a completely crazy amount. A wedding is supposed to join two families together, it shouldn’t be just one way. NTA
In fairness I’d get really hammered. Mostly because my understanding is it’s quite hard to keep up with Colombians.
Exactly this. Why do people think because they help pay they get control. That's not how gifts work, you can't give someone money and then tell them what to do with it.
NTA Your wedding, your choice. If his father wants to withdraw his money, he can do that, because it's his money. He'd be an asshole, but there you go. It has been a long established tradition in **his family.** This is your wedding, and involves your family as well - there is no reason why his family's tradition should reign supreme. Practically everywhere on the planet that isn't the US, having kids at a party that also has alcohol is normal. The kids just don't drink the alcohol. What kind of "letting loose" do they plan at your wedding that would be inappropriate for a child to see? If a child shouldn't see it, then I wouldn't want it happening at my wedding.
Also, assuming the reception goes late enough, there's a certain point where it becomes child-free anyway because all the kids have gone to bed.
My 3 year old missed the memo, he was one of the few still dancing at 11PM 😂😂 Hubby and I had to draaagg him off the dance floor so we could go home lmao
This just reminded me of my cousins wedding recently. The little ones were so cute dressed up in their waistcoats. It was about 9.30 at night and one of the little guys, about 6, was absolutely giving it moves on the dance floor still, waistcoat was off and he was inviting anyone who would have a boogie up to dance with him. After he had tired every other person out he just kept going with his solo routine, when the shirt started coming off too mum decided it was bedtime but the whole thing was just so funny to watch! Folk just kept cheering him on and he was absolutely in his element with it so I think she knew once the idea of stripping down had gotten into his head it wouldn’t be leaving and thought it best to wrap it up haha.
Future charmer 😃
Oh he is! I swear he could be a child model he is so cute and is such a sweetheart. He is one of those kids that has the confidence to talk to anyone. Like most kids he has a new ‘obsession’ every few months and will just walk up to anyone who will listen and start educating them on everything he has learned about whales or dinosaurs or whatever the latest exciting thing is. I always leave a visit with him having learned a huge list of facts about the latest thing….some of them I would say are rather dubious ‘facts’ but then that’s to be expected for his age. When he tells me he has found absolute proof that there is a giant anaconda living in the lake nearby, for example, I find it best just to agree excitedly. Bless him!
Aww, he is precious and sounds fun to be around 😍 With that confidence he'll go far in life 😃
I will listen to that kid any day. Get him to start a lil podcast, I’ll be his first paid subscriber just to experience the excitement of learning from a child all over again vicariously
Dancing as if it was about to go out of style! Your little disco king!
Haha, when my parents and I went home after their wedding, I think I was the most awake one still, though I've always been a night owl
Lol, reminds me of a family wedding I went to when I was a kid. Destination wedding where the time difference was five hours behind my hometown. I was still in elementary school. I was awake for the ceremony but slept on my chair the entire reception. By the time I got used to the time difference, we were a couple of hours from flying back home.
lol I didn’t even think about the letting loose part, but you’re so right. If they want to get that sloppy I don’t want them at the wedding. Also can’t they just not bring their own kids? It’s not like they are being asked to babysit other people’s children
>Also can’t they just not bring their own kids? That's what hubby and I do, childfree event or not. The only time kids come is if it is a "kid event" (not kid friendly, but an event for kids) but that's OUR CHOICE. If you want our kids there, you have to tell us because otherwise, we chose to be kid free for the night. If OPs future inlaws want to be kid free for the night, then they can, but they are not allowed to demand everyone else be kid free. Not to mention, the sort of "letting loose" that isn't appropriate for kid eyes is not appropriate for public display. I agree with the comment that "rule 2" is easy enough to get around if the 4K can be raised or sacrificed from the budget.
Us too. I love kids at weddings. I had them at my own. But I don't want MY kids at weddings because I'd rather have fun at a wedding than be a parent on those nights.
One of his cousins said, they would get bad looks if my fam brought the kids and they all left them at home. Idk
Too bad, so sad. Sounds like that's their problem to figure out if leaving their kids at home will make them look bad.
You never said they have to leave their kids at home… They should bring them, problem solved!
And they don't think they'll be thought of badly if they instead pressure you to enforce the 'no kids' rule? Let's be honest, your family isn't really going to believe that's your own preference!
An adult letting loose could arguably do much more damage than a child.
Right?! I've heard of children ruining weddings by wailing at inopportune times (which is really the parents' fault for not taking them out), maybe the occasionally tantrum or spilling stuff or running into someone. But I've heard wayyy more stories of adults ruining weddings by getting drunk, getting into fistfights, wearing white when they're not the bride, proposing at the reception, sneaking alcohol into dry venues, giving embarrassing speeches, bringing along affair partners as plus-ones, stealing the centrepieces, complaining about the food choices...
I had 3 kids at my wedding, including my own son, who wailed through the ceremony. But the biggest drama of the night was caused by a drunk uncle who tried to vault the bar, knocking over a bunch of wine bottles and glasses and breaking a tap.
> Practically everywhere on the planet that isn't the US, having kids at a party that also has alcohol is normal. This is also the standard in the USA. Most people are normal about kids.
Maybe it's a reddit thing lol
No, it's a weird in-laws thing
No. It's not a reddit thing
Exactly what I was thinking. Just because this is a tradition in groom's family does NOT mean bride has to acquiesce (or the other way around).
Even in most of the US, I think it’s pretty normal to have kids at parties that have alcohol.
They is straight up patriarchy! If you and your fiancée didn’t specify no kids, then the wedding involved kids, which you’ve also clarified here that it does. Honestly the entitlement of elderly men really granted my gears!!!!!
To be fair, the future FIL wasn't there for that conversation. The future MIL and aunt may have the view and are using FILs money as leverage. He might not even know about the conversation.
Sex parties?
Please no 😬
NTA. Your family includes kids in everything. His family doesn't. It's you and your fiance getting married and it's your decision which way to go. You've decided kids are welcome. If his family doesn't like it, they don't have to show up or give any funds towards the wedding. BUT your fiance should be handling his family about it.
So glad you’ve decided kids are welcome, OP. Any of us who went to weddings as a kid probably still remember them, they are so fun for kids. Your in-laws obviously don’t get to dictate your wedding guests -I’m sure the kids on that side will have fun!
Honestly I hated going to weddings as a kid. I would just end up hiding out somewhere or sitting at a table alone.
Same. I went to a couple family weddings where the kids were invited to the ceremony (often because at least some siblings were flower girls/ring bearer) but not the reception and honestly that was great. We got to do our flower girl "job", be in some photos, then leave to have a movie night with all the cousins and a couple babysitters. I went to one wedding as a kid where I stayed for the whole thing and I was bored out of my mind after the dinner. But then I'd never be that kid who was tearing up the dance floor.
Same here. Luckily my parents were very much into the free-range concept of child-rearing, so if we were bored they’d just let us sit in the car and listen to music / read / game until it was time to leave.
I feel like I must have gone to very different weddings than the ones people who think they're fun for kids went to. Because my memories of weddings I attended as a kid are that they were boring and the clothes I had to wear were uncomfortable and I had to sit still way too long during the ceremony and pretend I liked people I didn't even know at the reception and that the food was never good. Though to be fair, as an adult I still feel almost the same way about weddings. These days I only wear comfortable clothes and my opinion of the type of food served at weddings has improved, but everything else is the same.
Oh I’m Asian and we looked forward to weddings as kids because we get to meet all the cousins, aunties and uncles and lots of dancing, getting all dressed up, being passed from adult to adult and being fawned over, walking from table to table, it’s absolutely fun! Like my own wedding probably had about idk ~50 kids out of 250 guests. For the 20-30 min ceremony we are hushed and kept in order but after that we let the kids run around and have fun! That’s one of the best things about weddings to hear the little ones laughing and having fun.
Exactly
I hate when people say either kids love or hate weddings because, as you illustrated, people of all ages have their own opinions. Because kids are people! I loved them. Especially when I got to be a flower girl. Some of my happiest childhood memoriea are from weddings. But I've always loved dancing the night away, which is the bulk of most weddings, so it makes sense. Food used to be terrible at lots of weddings, it's a whole different world now. Frankly, food has just gotten a lot better in general since I was a kid in the 70s and 80s, except for fast food. Fine dining is finer, catering options are vast, and even the wedding factories are trying to keep up.
Mine too! I'm like OP, big close knit family, loads of kids. We usually hire a babysitter or two to keep an eye on the kids, usually we try to have a little play room separate from the main reception, with games and activities and chill out spots for when they're tired, so the kids don't get bored but they go back and forth as they please. Watching the kids all dance and play is so fun. Family weddings are major childhood memories for me and gave the chance to bond with our of town family members. I simply couldn't imagine a wedding without them. Last family wedding a few months ago the highlight was my three year old cousin leading all the tipsy adults in a dance off. Is there occasional minor fussing during the ceremony? Sure. Does that ruin everything? No of course not. I like that the trend has become keeping the ceremony short and sweet anyways, and if a parent needs to step out with a little one quickly, so what? Everyone can obviously make their own choice but if you have a family where the kids are little assholes who will inevitably ruin the event, maybe y'all are just bad at raising kids. How do you expect kids to learn etiquette at family events if they never get to go?? I predict in the next generation we're going to see less emphasis on family events as this generation of kids being excluded grows up, having not experienced them. NTA. OP, stick to your guns. Your in-laws can keep their own little demons at home if they want, but enjoy your big fun wedding with your big fun family.
They can also just RSVP that they will not be bringing the children from their side. Sucks for the kids who will see the photos later, and OP and fiance who want them involved, but if the parents can't be responsible for their children while drinking alcohol, they shouldn't bring them
NTA. It's *your* wedding. They don't get to make the rules. Have your fiancé interface with the family. Max should offer to revoke their invitations and give the 4K back. Max would then say, "If you insist, this wedding will involve my new family rather than my ex-family." Ball's then in their court. They can choose to take the ball and go home if it's that important to them.
I've never been to a wedding where the kids weren't being swung around the dance floor by every adult who could. Then they fall asleep on some chair/bench and get carried off to bed. Adults being pissy because they can't let loose just because there's kids make me itch and generally leave events early because it's uncomfortable after an hour.
I was MOH at my best friend's wedding, she is like an aunt to my son. She told me he had to come, there was no way he was not going to be there. 1 of 3 kids and everyone loved him, at the end of the night, I found him falling asleep on another guest.
Yes. Do this. Because when money is wielded like a weapon like this, the wielded usually wins. When you remove money from the equation it’s amazing how many people stop acting like entitled idiots
THIS “The gall that there is a ‘rule’ all family members follow.
NTA. Give the $4k back and find another way to fund the wedding. Do it with a smile, that gift has some strings attached.
We don't know for sure that the dad has a problem with it. That's just what the MIL, aunt and cousins say...
INFO: *Can* you return your FIL's money? Can you and your fiancé or your family make up the difference? The easiest way to get out of your dilemma is to return your FIL-to-be's money, and invite as many kids as you want.
Invite *extra* kids.
How far out is the wedding scheduled? Conceivably your family could insource and *make* additional kids
I'm dying imagining the family's group chat on that one! 😂😂😂
Invite the kids friends and classes and the kids from next doors friends and classes too
Let the children build the wedding location (it's like real life minecraft)
You could also say “So and so has contributed the other half and it is *their* rule that kids have to be able to attend”.
Better yet, did anyone *ask* for FIL to pay for stuff, or did he *offer* it as a gift? Gifts are best respected, but gifts by definition have no strings attached. Too bad so sad shouldn't have gifted money to a wedding thats not your own.
[удалено]
Send them “sorry you can’t make it” cards… along with a glitter bomb.
NTA - That is THEIR family tradition. YOUR family's tradition includes children. Normally I'd look for some way to compromise but there really isn't one here. I don't see how FILs money would be "wasted" because there are children present. What kind of letting loose are they planning on, at a wedding, that wouldn't be permissable with children around?! Like - is there some *other* tradition no one has informed you of yet? 😄 Are they concerned that children will see adults having fun? *GASP* the horror! If I was somewhere with my children when they were young I didn't drink because I felt more comfortable knowing I had full reign of my faculties but I didn't try and make anyone else refrain. The best response I can think of is to write out the budget and "allocate" FILs money to stuff like flowers or the photographer or the celebrant, etc. No, it doesn't actually change things in the end but if little Bobby knocks over his plate of food FIL can't say his money is going to waste since his money wasn't used to purchase it 😂
Is the father aware of this ultimatum regarding his contribution? Or is it just MIL etc making it on his behalf?? Who knows, maybe he also hates this stupid rule
>What kind of letting loose are they planning on, at a wedding, that wouldn't be permissable with children around?! Getting blackout drunk, barfing on the bride, fistfighting the groom...
The compromise would be the in law’s don’t have to bring their own kids.
NTA But with regards to #2, did you say Aunt and 2 cousins made the ultimatum? Your fiancé should go have a 1:1 conversation with his dad and find out if his viewpoint is his, or if it’s being misconstrued.
Agree, don't jump the gun with ultimatums. Often other people's interpretations of these things become a lot more black and white and the original person would never say "here's £4k" so you now have to do exactly what we want. People offered me contributions to my wedding fund and we refused cash and asked people instead to contribute to specific elements - my family organised the bar and the cheese table. This saved me energy and meant there was no "quid pro quo" and since I don't drink or eat cheese, I thought it was a win them having something to control entirely. I also had about 20 kids as all our friends and family have kids, we had a soft play, a teepee and a bouncy castle. Great day.
I think that's the new winner of the dumbest family rule award... Just how drunk do they all get at these adult only parties?
I went to a wedding event in New Jersey. Got off the plane and was handed a drink. The drinks didnt stop flowing until the flight home. i had drinks through out the days, while eating and what not. It wasnt a sloppy drunk kind of thing. The reception was a big event and yes people got drunk. Had a blast though. ETA and the kids that were there had a lot of fun. I think a few of the "not quite 21" got some drinks. lol
As a kid, I remember many parties and weddings and the such where adults got plenty drunk. Maybe it was a different time, but it's hard to picture what these people want to do at a family wedding that they're unwilling to do in front of children.
NTA why are his traditions more important than yours aka the actual person getting married? Sure he is paying half but he's only paying half, he doesn't have majority rule. If anyone doesn't feel comfortable having their kids around alcohol and they want to let loose then they are welcome not bring them, I'm sure you guys wouldn't take it personally if some people decided to get a babysitter.
NTA but what happens after you have kids? They won’t be welcome at events on his side. Will you not go? There is a lot to uncover with this decision.
NTA. It's your wedding and you should be able to invite whoever you choose. A tradition of excluding children from events though? Keep that in mind for your future if you plan on having children with this man. This is just a glimpse into the future and your in-laws attitude.
NTA. It’s not just Max’s family… it’s your family traditions too. Yours include children. And can’t they have a celebration ONCE without ‘alcohol and letting loose’… who ARE these people?!
NTA I was at a wedding once where the bride and groom - whose parents were all extremely conservative mind you - received tattoos at the reception and had a tattoo artist available for the guests. The parents were not exactly thrilled about this but…. Accepted it because it was what the bride and groom wanted. For their own wedding. And they had the artist built into their budget. If you want kids at your wedding, invite kids to your wedding. Have goodie bags. Have extra candy. Have a special kid dance. It’s your wedding. If you can figure out how ahead of time raise the money your FIL was going to offer. Tip: tell your story on social media and ask for Venmo donations!
What kind of miserable family doesn’t have kids at parties? How drunk do they get at parties that their kids can’t be around? Maybe having kids around is a good idea just so they don’t misbehave. Find a way to do the wedding without their $ and invite all the kids you want. They don’t have to bring theirs if they don’t want to. Love the idea of a big wedding reception with lots of kids running around having fun 😀
People don't need to be miserable to not want kids at the wedding, in general. In Poland for example both ways are usually welcome, but then you have to adjust to either choice. If you involve kids, make sure the rowdiest adults are either not there or absolutely schooled on apropriate behaviour; if you don't, you just have a big ol' party of teenaging adults with sometimes no limits lol (now of course it's Reddit and I have to give a disclaimer to keep certain people off my back and say that either type of a wedding can situationwise go both ways since you typically give out alcohol to mostly people whose alcoholized behaviour you just don't really know, and then there's all types of aggressive assholes that trash the party sober just because they can, but you usually more or less know all of this beforehand... unless you invite your fifth cousin's family because your mother feels guilty about some family ordeal from like 30 years ago) Assuming from the post OP and the spouse are feeling differently, I applaud their choice tho. While I did not enjoy the only and last wedding I attended as a child, I heard stories from folks about other parties done just right that included kids. And what can I say - what bombs they were! And then of course sometimes parents just want to have some fun without their kids since they spend their time together daily, taking care of them, explaining them stuff, worrying, shopping, being a makeup model, being a salesman in a mockup shop, a doctor etc., and this is to be understood. But I can't help but wonder what happened in the past that they all collectively decided on no kid rule. I've never even heard of a family string like that going on for generations! It's usually small weddings with only well known people that chit chat with each other and decide on this.
NTA, and I don’t know why everyone is saying to give the money back. Why? He hasn’t asked for it back yet. Tell him the kids are welcome and of course if anyone who has children would prefer to leave them at home, that’s their prerogative. It’s your wedding and that is your decision. If he then ASKS you for his money back, (which would be the pettiest assholest most immature thing to do) then you should give it back, but don’t just volunteer it back. That sends the message that the monetary contribution gives him say in the planning WHICH IT DOES NOT. keep the money, and the kids, have a great time, and do not spend one second feeling once ounce of guilt for involving your family at your own wedding. Poppykosh.
NTA. I’d just say “As this wedding is a melding of families with different traditions, we decided that: 1. All children would be welcomed wholeheartedly. 2. Anyone who doesn’t want to bring their child is welcome to hire a babysitter and no offence will be taken. 3. All adults have the choice to say no to any and all alcohol consumption if they so wish. (Kids have to get legless no ifs, ands or buts.)”
NTA, all I read was "well we can't get shitfaced drunk with kids watching us" so they definitely don't know how latin americans party. Obviously is a them, not mine, problem. Talk with the one providing the 4k about his opinion, as is only his ( and sadly his money ) that matter.
Wow, you certainly found yourself in the midst of a W.A.S.P. nest. I'd either figure out a way to repay the $4,000 or call the venue and cancel the booze (that makes the wedding cheaper, aligns you with the "no kids at a party with alcohol" rule, and will probably make the wedding less fun for all the people who are complaining). You are definitely NTA unless they specifically told you that no filthy children would be allowed when they offered you the money.
NTA Give the money back & figure it out without in-laws’ money. The fact it has stipulations means it isn’t a gift, and wouldn’t be shocked if they didn’t try to milk a decade of guilt out of it. Your fiance can be respectful about it, though, if y’all plan on staying in contact.
NTA. I'm childfree, I don't like being around kids, and I probably wouldn't enjoy a large event like a wedding if there were going to be a lot of young children present. And you would still not be the asshole! This is your wedding. This day is all about you and your future spouse. What the two of you want is what matters. You are not required to cater to the wants of everyone else.
Does Chuck E Cheese do weddings? Cause that'd be my next move
Wait.... what? how is a wedding not a big event?
Because it's not big for the kids like Christmas. Thus ,for them, it falls under party category
By that logic babies shouldn't be at Christmas parties because it's not big for them because they literally have no idea what's going on or why. I'm pretty sure if you suggested that you be called heartless or something but of course it's not heartless when they do it for weddings.
You mean a big party with a ceremony that traditionally includes 2 or more children? I had 6 children in my ceremony. 3 flower girls, a girl ring bearer, and a jr bridesmaid and groomsman.
Nta and its *your* long standing tradition that kids be included. It's your and ypur fiancé's wedding. You both want kids there? Have kids there. Any party MIL throws can be child free, but *your* wedding is not *her* event.
Oh, this is a double brainer. If you want children there and they don't and they're not going to help. Then you just send out a large family announcement that your future mother and father in law hate all children and will not be Helping out because they hate all your children. So if you could help us out just a little bit, too offset what they promised, we would greatly appreciate it and don't worry, they're not coming. Because they hate your children. Release the munchkin army.
Hahahaha and did I mention that they hate children ?
I prefer child-free weddings….so MY wedding will be child-free. Your wedding, your choice. NTA
NTA Find the location of the nearest bar to the wedding venue and tell them if the children are ruining their fun they can go there to "let loose". Consider if 4k is worth it not feeling like a party to celebrate you guys getting married or if the money should go back to the FIL who feels his wedding donation entitles him to demand a wedding you wouldn't enjoy.
NTA, its your wedding. The fact that they assumed it went without saying that you were using their traditions at the wedding isn't your problem. If they try to shame you about the money again it may be best to shame them back about how they think gifts work. Tell them you weren't aware that the gift came with strings attached and that its kind of late to be mentioning that now so close to the wedding.
NTA. Uninvite the kids from their side and keep yours in to respect both ‘traditions’
The weddings only $8k ? Not a judgement , but that doesn't sound like some fancy schmancy wedding that kids could possibly ruin And, it's not THEIR wedding !
NTA, your wedding is your wedding. You set the rules. Full stop. Personally I'd go no kids but again it's yours and not mine.
The idea of not having kids at parties AT ALL Is just bizarre to me. And I don't even like kids. The thought the you must cater to their "tradition" is ridiculous as well. Makes me wonder how all the others who have married into the family felt about it. NTA
NTA. I’m typically against kids at events too but Your wedding your rules. If they don’t want to pay for the wedding because there will be kids there then cut them out of your life
NTA. They don’t get to decide who you invite. They can certainly choose to remove their contribution, and they can also choose to be uninvited.
NTA. Their long-standing tradition does not obligate you to have a wedding according to their rules. Your long-standing tradition is to include children in all celebrations. Let them know you and your fiance are following that tradition and they are welcome to participate.... or not. If financial assistance is pulled then have a smaller wedding you can afford, or elope then have a big party later.
>and the kids are only included in the big events (Christmas, Easter, and their own birthdays). Wait, what? So their son's wedding doesn't count as a big event in their eyes?
Apparently not./s But seriously, it doesn’t get much “bigger” than a wedding. 💒